Dan Wootton Outspoken - MIKE GRAHAM GOES NUCLEAR AS HE DECLARES SADIQ KHAN HAS REMADE UK FOR FOREIGNERS IN EXPLOSIVE CLASH

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

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No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooden. This is a very special edition of Outspoken, a clash with a difference today. The takedown, where heavyweights on the right are put on the spot to argue their controversial takes on subjects chosen by us with no preparation time whatsoever versus two highly prepared and researched opponents who are on a hell-bent mission to take them down. joining me today. It's independent media sensation, Mike Graham. He is the host of the Mike Graham show on YouTube and Substack, host of the original and the best. Let's be honest, plank of the week. And he is facing off against businesswoman and political commentator Amy Anzal and author Anna May Mangon. Now, because of this very special edition of the show today, there will be no live Greatest Britain and Union Jackats.

but we will have the Royal Uncanceled Aftershow as normal on Substack after the main show. You can sign up to watch at www.outspoken.com. But now, let's go. The old London we used to know is gone. Gone. Totally gone. The United Kingdoms Capital City has been infected. Infected by phone snatching, infected by mass shoplifting, infected by fare evading, daylight robbery, stabberth.

and many claim that this is all down to one man, Sadiq Khan, who I believe is responsible for an Islamist takeover of this once great city. So, it's the clash takedown with Mike Graham, who is going up against Amy Ansel and Anna Mae Mangon on this very issue. So Mike, you have 60 seconds to kick off. Why do you believe Sadiq Khan has done? destroyed London. I think it's because he's changed it

completely and utterly in almost every respect that you can think of. He's changed the way it looks. He's changed the way it feels. He's changed the way it smells. He's changed the way the overcrowding of the tube system is now out of control. The way that everything that used to be, I grew up in London in 1960s, it was a very long time ago,

and through the 70s, lived here through the best part of the 90s and the 2000s. And I've never seen London in such a mess. You know, the crime figures are off the scale. I've got some I've brought with me, which I'll mention coming up in a little while. But the number of rapes, I think, is 2,250 in the first quarter of this year to the end of March. And these are recorded figures by the Metropolitan Police. Every single metric of crime is up, aside from, you know, the one that he claims is down, which is homicide, which is down by about

five people over the course of, you know, last year. But basically, people feel nervous when they walk around London. I've got a show coming up in a few months' time. People are saying they're not sure they want to buy tickets for it because they don't want to come to London. People who used to come to London for the weekend tell me they don't come anymore. Everybody I know has had their phone stolen. I've had my back window smashed in my car. You know, the crime is out of control. The shoplifting, as you say, is out of control. Every time I use the tube, I see somebody going through the barriers without paying. The cost of living in London is off the scale as well. Council tax going up and up and up and you know all sedic can't seem to want to do in his little sort of

air eerie uh where he lives is to is to hire more people to work for for the for the mayor's office to hire a night time czar to hire a daytime czar to hire a sometime in between czar you know to have a lot of PR people working for him i think he's hired something like 65 different PR people and you know his whole point in life is to try and get awards for london to tell everybody from outside of london how great london is and how they should all come here um but people are not coming And London is no longer for Londoners. London is now for foreigners. And London has become a very foreign city.

And we always had foreign people living in this country. We always had foreigners living in London. But it was never as bad as it is now. And now I think it's 38% of the population is white British. And you can see it. And every time you walk around, it has a very different feel to it. I'm a great fan of Lebanese restaurants. I love going to Indian restaurants.

I love going to different kinds of cultural experiences. But now there is no English experience. There just isn't any left. And you can't find it anywhere. go away at the weekends to Sussex and to other parts of the country where England is still England, London looks like a very, very foreign place to me. What a damning indictment. London, now a city of foreigners. And by the way, when it comes to those crime statistics, I do not believe them for a single second, because you know, Mike, when you were victim of a crime

in London these days, you simply don't report it. You don't report it because why would you? The Metropolitan Police are corrupt and going to do nothing about it. Amy Anzel, take him down. Well, I've lived in London now for 16 years. I was originally born and raised in New York. I lived in New York City for many, many years. Listen, you live in a city. It's not going to be the safest place to be.

But I do think Sidic Khan has done a great job in so many ways. I feel that the city is cleaner. You talked about the air. You talked about the way it smelled. And I thought, oh, that's so weird because I think it smells great considering what's happening with the U.S. Lézone and what he's done with electric cars and cleaning up the air. I mean, think about it. Health is wealth, right? And we all breathe in the air of London every single day for hours of days,

hours a day. So think about the fact that if you're breathing in cleaner air, you're not going to get sick. You're not going to have lung disease. You're not going to have asthma. So ultimately, I think London is definitely a cleaner city. I think what he's done socially for children and the free school lunches is brilliant. Even my nine-year-old son knew about. that. He goes to a private school, but he knew about that and he thinks it's the greatest thing. What he's done also for public transport is fantastic. So overall, look, I know there's always going to be crime in a city like London, like New York. That's just the way of the world. But ultimately, I think he's done great things for the city of London. And I could see it on a

daily basis in the past, you know, several years that I've lived in London. Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just find it extraordinary. I've never, I mean, I'm glad because this means this is a proper clash. Yeah. But even folk on the left don't usually say Sidique Khan has done an amazing job. I mean, I don't know if you've ever said in a car while trying to drive it in London because it doesn't move, right? You know what the average speed in London is for a car?

20 miles per hour. It's nine miles an hour. That's the average speed. And when you're sitting in a car and they're not all electric cars, there's an awful lot of petrol cars and diesel cars and diesel vans. And they're pumping out, you know, carbon monoxide. They're pumping out all sorts of pollutants. The air in London is not cleaner.

Sadiq Khan had to admit that he'd actually fudge the figures when he said the air was cleaner. Let me give you this for an example, right? Do you know how many crimes are reported in London in March? Have a guess. No. 74,781. That's one crime every 36 seconds, okay? And that is drug offences up 17.9%.

Weapons possession up 24.2%. Sexual offences up 5.3%. Rape up 7.3%. Violence against the person up 5.9%. Stalking and harassment up 14.3%. drug trafficking up 16%. I don't know how you can argue with those figures. These are all Metro problem police figures.

Why don't you do your research? At the end of the day, right, there was a drive-by shooting in Brixton the other week. So now not only have we imported, you know, the worst of the crimes from Europe and from the United States of America, we're now getting like downtown LA, you know, drive-by shootings, for having to take in London.

Do you not accept where there's more people, there's going to be more crime? And London is a magnet for people from all over the world. Tourists as well. Tourists too. So that's why more things go wrong, obviously. The reason, now I am right down the middle. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm not going to lie on Sadiq Khan.

The good things about him are that he's a Londoner born and bred. He was born in South London. He knows the city. He's lived in the city as I have. His loyalties are not to London anyway. As I have since I was born. His loyalties are to Islam. Well, he's been elected three times.

If you believe in democracy, you've got to go with that. But his dad was a bus driver. I mean, that's a good thing. He came from routes up to. where the powerful position is in today. I'll tell him what he doesn't do well and that he doesn't discuss with the media. He won't interview anybody.

He won't be interviewed by anybody who disagrees with him. Correct. He never appeared on Mike show, never appeared on Mike. I've asked him on my show probably 35 times and they started not even answering the requests. That's because he's like a fundamentalist. He's got this.

No, he is fundamentalist. Very well said. He's an Islamist fundamentalist. Well, I wouldn't say that. You said that. But I think that some of the things he's done. Or am I wrong? What do you think about the free school meals?

You can't disagree with that. I think free school meals are not free for a start because everybody else who pays for them is a taxpayer, right? And they're not free school meals for everybody. They're only free school meals for people who are on benefits. They don't make any difference at all. Well, they do. They're going to work in parents.

They make a big difference. If you're a parent and you can't afford to feed your children, you shouldn't be a parent, right? So there's all sorts of freebies for everybody, but not for children in schools. They shouldn't be as many. If you want to get me on freebies, I can give you all the freebies they shouldn't be getting either.

People who live in council houses in this country who come from abroad shouldn't be being subsidised either by Sadiq Khan, but they all are because they all get to the top of the housing list because they're vulnerable people coming from places that apparently are hellholes. So now they can come to Britain and make London to London. He's not making those decisions. Of course he is. He's supposed to be in charge of the housing. He's supposed to be in charge of the housing in London.

Culturally, London is the greatest city in the world. And it's the most beautiful. Not anymore, it's not. I went to the marathon last week. It was magnificent. God help us. They should move that. All those people were raising for charity.

This is red ragged. They should move that. Mike has been campaigning against. I was so proud to be in London. Last weekend, the answer glow, a week later, you're still with me. They shut the whole place down. The other thing, the other thing that's done. Do you drive anima? Well, actually, that's now, if I had notes on pros and cons, I'd now at this point throw away the pros.

Because as a driver, I feel that he is personally attacking me. He is, he is. These hopper fairs, they make me laugh. He says that you can get on a bus for an hour and go on an amending bus as you like, go anywhere you want. You go on the first bus. You're sat in traffic for two. 25 minutes. You don't even get off it to get on the second bus. But think of the clean air you're producing out of that bus.

Well, it's not clean air because of what you said. The sequencing of the traffic lights and the charges to come in, you've got people driving bigger, better cars because they're well off. You're also probably going to be attacked, especially as a white woman. On a bus. Yeah. I mean, I get on a bus pretty much every day of the week, right? And more often than not, there are people on the bus talking to their phones

and none of them speak in English. And there's not a race thing, by the way. Because where I live in a race thing? No, it's not. No, it isn't. raise thing. Well, if somebody's from, I don't know, Lithuania, and they're speaking Lithuanian into the phone, I'm not going, you're Lithuanian, therefore I hate you because of the colour of your skin, am I?

No, so if they're from Kensington, that would be all right, would it? If they were talking on the phone? What do you mean? If they were posh and talking on the phone, it would still be objectionable. Oh, good. So it's not just about the language.

But where I live in London, it happens to always be people who don't speak English. It's always people who speak a foreign language, right? Well, I've heard you, those people might be going to work to provide services for you. It might well be, but the point is... But they're not allowed to talk on the bus. Well, I wouldn't have people talking the bus.

No, I'd make it completely illegal. It's actually meant to be illegal. By the way, my friend's ringing, but I'm not going to answer it. You know, the bottom line is, is that, you know, we have been taken over in London as a country by foreigners. It's as it. But was it, don't you agree that it was ever thus? No, it wasn't. I grew up.

Because I was brought up around Kilburn. And there was completely Irish. Now they've all moved on. The statistics just proved that to be wrong. Have you been to Kilburn lately? Yes. And it's not Irish anymore, is it rotates? It's not Irish anymore.

one's come in, the old ones move out. London is a city of immigration. London has never before, until London City Kahn's reign, been a minority white British city, which is what it is now. 38% of people who live in London are white British, right? So we're now a minority.

It wasn't like that when I grew up. The weekend before I did the marathon last weekend, we went to Chiswick. Well, that was a revelation, wasn't it? That's where Jones and Brian lives. In a gated environment, yeah, I know all that. Why did you live in a gated environment? And Cindy's kids to live at school.

And why does he send his case to private skill? Maybe he feels unsafe. You should feel unsafe because Chiswick is unsafe, like the rest of London. Chiswick is, honestly, it's like a village. My daughter spent a weekend in one of the villages where I think David Cameron has a property. And they have to petition before they can paint their front door a certain colour because it's so well managed. A city like London can't be like that. It's too diverse.

It's too big. It's too sprawling. And there's pockets of poverty in it. It's also far more populated now than it ever was. I just said more people causes more problems. People, yeah, but they shouldn't all cause more problems. There used to be a time, and I lived in New York, Amy, for 10 years in the 80s, right? And when I went to New York City, I was an immigrant there, and I was a Brit living in New York,

and so were an awful lot of other people. But the difference between the people that went to New York and the 80s, like me, were that they wanted to be part of New York. They wanted to be New Yorkers, no matter whether they were Russians, whether they were Belgians, whether they were from South America, Venezuela, Argentina. They all wanted to be American, right? And they all wanted to buy a house in New Jersey or live in Long Island and put a stars and stripes outside their house. That's what they wanted to do. The people who are coming to live in London

don't want to do that. That's not that. And that's not therefore. And we have to deal in reality. And right now, I'm going to be totally honest with you, and this is not being rude, but you are dealing with a polyanarish fairy tale. I just want to deal with the facts. And the facts are, based on my research, and I can provide you where this has all come from, but the estimate in 1981, that was actually pre-ethnicity statistics, was that London was 86% white. Okay? Now, if you look at how that has gone down, even in 1991, 74% white. 2001, 59.8%. 200011, 44.9%. In the period between then and Steve Kahn being there, as Mike says, it's now 36.8%. So you're saying, oh, it's the same.

when I was growing up. No, I'm sorry, there's a huge difference between 86% white and 36% white. So please, please just acknowledge the reality. You can say that that's totally fine if you think that's totally fine. But to say that nothing's changed is being intellectually dishonest. Are you saying that only people of colour commit crimes or immigrants commit crimes? No, I'm saying that your suggestion that London has not changed as total baloney.

I think it's turned over. The groups in the population have turned over as they always had. No, but they've increased. No, but they've increased. It was Cockney and what is it now? Anna, it's not a turnover. 86% 1981, which I presume is the type of period that you're talking about. 36% 2021.

That's not a turnover. There's also plenty of white people who are not in that 36% because it's white British that number, okay? So there could be Eastern Europeans here. They could be people from other countries. Yeah, that's true. My point is a foreign city. Okay, so if London is such a dump, why our house price is so high.

Well, they're going down fast, actually. And no one can tell it's experience. Schools are not actually popular. Schools are closing down in London because people are moving out of the city because they can't afford to live here and they can't afford to put their kids into the schools. And so the reason... I don't think that's true. It is true.

No, I'm not saying. Well, nothing else that you've said has been right. So why would you get that right? Well, you've just said that London's exactly the same as it used to be in the 60s, which it clearly isn't? I didn't say it was the same. I didn't say the numbers were the same. I said it's in pretty. So it's different.

Well, just in numbers. Is that a point? Of course it's a point. Yes, because if you're overcrowded in a city, the conditions under which people live are worse and worse. How are you going to solve it? I think I'm going to just have to move out. Simple as that.

But Mike, don't a lot of people do that? That's just the way I feel like in New York it was the same with a lot of white American people wanting to move out to the suburbs. But you can't, unless you're moving the same people in who are moving out, effectively, who have got the same aspiration, who have got the same ideas of where they want to take their families and how they want to live, then that's fine. Then the conditions remain the same,

just with different people, right? However, what we've got now is different people coming in, very low-skilled, people who are on benefits, people who are putting more of a drain on the state than the people who are moving out, because the people who are moving out tend to be people who are making money, who have got decent jobs and who can afford to live in a more leafy suburb, if you like, because they can have aspirations for their kids. What we're getting instead is an awful lot of families with large numbers of children who are all on benefits coming here from foreign countries and clogging up the welfare system.

If we're really talking about the 60s, I mean, in the 60s, anime, the white population was 97.7%. And a lot of them are Irish and they were discriminated against really badly, as I know for my own experience growing up. But going back to Sadie Khan, which the subject was about, the unforgible point. But can I just ask you an honest question, though, anime? Can I just ask you an honest question? You genuinely don't believe that Sadie Khan is responsible for an Islamist takeover of London. I'm not equating this question with Islam. I mean, does everything relate back to it?

Does what you had in for your dinner last night have something to do with Islam? Because you seem to bring it back to that all the time. The state of London does. I'll tell you what is unforgivable and why I hope he's not elected again. And I know I'm supposed to be devil's advocate here, but I have to say this.

His refusal to acknowledge the grooming gangs that exists in London. That is where I draw the lines. Criminal. I hope you never get selected again. Mike, I want him in prison. Because to me, this is a criminal cover up, Mike. Like, if you actually think about it, These Pakistani Muslim rape gangs are going on now.

Yes. In huge numbers. And he refuses to answer questions about it. He refuses to even address it. Well, he says it doesn't exist. And that means the metro, he's in charge of the Metropolitan Police. I mean, Amy, can you try and defend that?

No, I can't. See? Okay. Okay. So I think that's it. He's a scumb bag. Mike wins around. No, no.

I've just, as the expone, I'm supposed to be sticking up for him, but I've thrown him under the electric bus. I've thrown him under the electric bus. Friends like you, I'll tell you what. He doesn't need enemies. Amy Anza, Anna Mae Mangon. Adore you both, but you lost that round.

I'm just going to be honest with that. I'm proud to lose that round on that last point alone. Let's move on. Because the woke mind virus has led a generation of women to believe that masculinity is toxic, driving young men to think that their natural way of being is some type of cancer. That needs to be cut out of society.

But now that same won't mind virus seems to be dying out, Is it now time to remind men that we actually need a bit of masculinity in order for them to thrive again? It's the clash takedown with Mike Graham, who has been hit hard today by Amy Ansel and Anna May Mangon. So, Mike, let's kick off 60 seconds. Why do you say masculinity isn't toxic? Well, proper masculinity is not toxic. There is, however, a form of masculinity that has crept in to, you know, the kind of, I don't don't want to use the word manosphere because I hate that particular word.

However, there are some really, really bad men, bad actors who are pushing a really, really dangerous sort of, I don't know, theory of life onto some young men. And I know because I've got young sons, and so I've been through it precisely what they get attached to, what they get attracted to. You know, there is a form of masculinity out there, which I don't regard as very male at all, actually, which disregards women, which preaches this kind of ridiculous macho-man. macho way of life. I believe in, my father used to say to me, men should be heroic, right? They should rescue women from situations when they need to be rescued. They should always protect

women. They should always walk on the outside of the street. Some women don't like that and say, oh, well, you don't you do that for me. But I regard that as my role in life as a father and as a husband when I was one. I wasn't very good one, by the way, but that's another story. The point is that, you know, there is a toxic masculinity in some of these men, and I think it's quite dangerous that some of our young men think that it's great. You know, like get yourself a Lamborghini, get yourself a hot tub, you know, get yourself a blonde and make her an only fan's model. You know, that kind of thing I think is terrible.

However, masculinity as a general rule, as practiced by most of us, and nearly all of us, in fact, is a good thing. Anna Mae Mangon, take him down. Yeah, you see again, I don't know what you're doing to me, Mike, but I don't disagree with everything you say. I think that obviously we're talking about the Andrew Tates of this world, who are savages, they're ignorant. and they're monetising violence, aggression,

women being captured at home. I mean, I think his mother should get him by the ear and put him to bed early. But we're not talking about Andrew Tait. But Mike is saying people like you sometimes, Anna May, and I can't imagine you like this, need rescuing. Do you agree? A hundred percent not, thank you.

So you do disagree then. I don't think I need rescuing because I don't buy into the idea of the manosphere. I think there are certain players... But Mike's saying that isn't the manosphere. He's just saying, that is basic masculinity. Basically masculine behaviour is to protect, isn't it?

No, there's a new strand. That's chivalrous. Yes, that's what I said. Being chivalrous. Being chivalrous is a good thing. And being protected is a good thing. But anime's not liking this. Corsets, crinolins.

I mean, that's quite, sorry, but old-fashioned to... Yeah, I'm old-fashioned. I'm making no apology for that. So now it's 2026. Women are equal. Women are able to stand up and themselves. And also identify what's good about masculinity. What do you mean by that mind?

Well, they're not equal. That's part of the problem here. You know, women and men are completely different creatures, right? Men are good at some things, women are good at some other things. You can say that they are equal in the sense that they can both be very successful, that they can both be very kind, they can both be very clever, but they're not equal, and that's really where the problems lie, because you cannot.

I mean, I can't. You've never pushed out a baby, but I'm guessing. No, so I never could. With your wife, I'm guessing that intellectually and directly you'd be equal. Yeah, but I can't do that, so it doesn't make me equal to a woman. But is it judged by physical things then? Well, no, it's judged by great many things, but physicality. Physicality.

Physicality. Yeah, well, I think certainly if you've got a penis, you're not a woman, that's for sure. I don't know whether you think that's true as well. I have to check with Kirstarmer about that. Yeah, he's not sure. He needs to be told by the Supreme Court, and even then he's not really sure. But the bottom line is that there are clearly advantages to being a man physically. And there are clearly advantages.

Yes, advantages where you are stronger, generally speaking, than a woman. If I wanted to, you know, hold you down and push you down on the floor, I could probably do that. That means we're not equal. I wouldn't do it because I'm a chivalrous individual. Well, I've seen a woman get on a bus with a fold-down, buggy and three little babies carrying the whole lot and a load of shopping. Yeah. Yeah, well, it can be. It is strength.

But it still doesn't mean if she got into a fight with a man, she wouldn't lose. Well, hopefully no one's getting into a fight. Well, let's hope not, but unfortunately you don't live in the real world. Well, it's not stone age. No, I don't live in the stone age. I live in a world. I live in a world where women, generally speaking, particularly if they're going to be having a family, need somebody to look after them because we've seen the result of women.

We need somebody, we know from women who don't have anything to do after them. Amy's shaking her. No, because I'm in a very equal relationship with my husband, and I believe that masculinity, not what you described, but the Andrew Tates of the world, that is toxic. But that's not what Mike's talking about. But we're talking about chivalry, which is completely different. So my husband can be chivalrous, but yet still equal with me.

I think women and men are equal. I make money, he makes money. I look after my son, he looks after my son. And it's a world of equals. Well, you can behave in an equal manner, and you can treat each other with respect, but you're not equal. It's all my point is you're not physically able to be equal.

It's just, it's just biologically. What is what do with it? Well, you've just told me one. The fact that I can't have a baby. I can't get pregnant, you know. Well, that doesn't make you, it makes you. What does it make me? It makes you a man.

Yeah. And it makes you a woman that you can do it. It doesn't make me lesser than you. I'm not saying it does. No, you're misunderstanding. No, someone's not equal. Who's on top? No.

You don't have to, why does it have to be a competition? Well, if it's not equal, someone's, someone's, someone's, No, you're missing the point. You can't have equality between two different sets of people. That's like saying a dog is equal to a cat. It's not. There are two different things going on, right? You can have just as many attributes as a woman as a man.

There are plenty of men who are complete morons and idiots. As in there are plenty of women there are morons and idiots. But you cannot actually physically be equal. It's a philosophical point. I see, my impression, anime, of watching this, is that you do seem to be suggesting that the type of masculinity that Mike is referring to, and we know that it's not the Andrew Taites of this world.

You are still suggesting that that is in some way toxic because you don't feel like a woman should have to be protected by a man. How moated by whom? But is that masculine, doing all those things? Is that masculine? Well, I think a man protecting a woman would be viewed as a good positive masculine trait. Would you know? Give me a description of what you mean.

I don't know what you mean protecting. Well, I'm sorry, if a woman is walking down the street in the middle of the night, on her own, in a city, she's usually pretty vulnerable. If she's walking down that city with a man who's got his arm around her and is making it clear that everyone else stays away, I would say that she's going to feel much safer. Now, if you're telling me that's not the case, I would say you're being intellectually dishonest.

Well, I suppose it's safer for anybody, men or women, to walk in pairs if it's a dangerous place. Well, it's not about walking in pairs. It's about the fact that there is a masculine man there who is telling everyone else to stay away from my woman. Right. So, oh, God. What about the armed forces and the police? and firefighters.

I mean, can women be equal in that setting? Well, they are. Well, they are, but that's part of the reason the armed forces is bloody useless in the country.

And so, and so are the police. You know, I used to work next door to British Transport Police. And by the way, there's plenty of useless-looking men in the British Transport Police,

but there are lots of really, really useless-looking women who are about three-foot-two. So do you think women should not serve on the front line? I don't think so, no. Why? Because they have periods?

No, not because they have periods. No, you see, you're now being old-fashioned because you think you assume because I think, something different to you that I must be some kind of stone-aged caveman. It's not actually an outmoded view. It depends on what the job is, right? If you're a sniper and you're 700 yards away from your prey, then you could be whatever you want.

You know, you can even dress as a woman if you want, if you're a bloke. As long as you could fire a gun. A lot of them do. You know, a lot of them do. But, you know, what we don't need is the somehow ridiculous notion that because we must have 50-50 equality in everything that we do, we must have loads of women at the front line fighting. You know, they're not as good at fighting. It's as simple as that.

What about pilots? In what respect, though? Women pilots, yeah, I don't have a problem with women pilots at all. Women's surgeons? Women's surgeons, no problem at all. Oh, you're very decent. Well, I'm not, you see, you're trying to make out that I'm some kind of, you know, maniacal, old-fashioned person.

No, I haven't. Because you've failed to understand it because I'm not sure you've got the necessary brain power to actually see. And that could be because you're a woman, obviously. Amy? Amy's horrified. Oh, my God. I just can't believe you said that.

I know. I just, well, I've given so much away to all the other women I've known. I mean, what can't you believe about what Mike's just said? You look very shocked. Because I do think women and men are equals. I think that on the front line, for example, there's a lot of things that women can do that men couldn't do and they, in a way, you know, maybe they're more nimble

and men can do this better. Have you seen what's happening in Ukraine? In what respect? On the front lines? With British military. No, with the Ukrainian army fighting the Russians. Have you seen what's happening there? No, tell me.

Well, it's pretty brutal and it's not a place for women to be. It's frankly as simple as that. and you'll see Russians fighting Ukrainians, people starving, people having limbs chopped off. It's a horrible, horrible, ghastly hand-to-hand combat kind of situation. And I agree with you, there are plenty of things that women can do. Like I said, they could fire guns as well as a man can fire them, but they cannot do hand-to-hand close quarter fighting, which is what is going on. And if I was running either the Ukrainian or the Russian army, you wouldn't send women in there because you would lose. Simple.

I'm not that familiar with what's going on there, nor am I familiar with the front line. requires. Well, would you have wanted women in the trenches during World War I, for example? Well, perhaps, yeah. Not just being nurses looking after the wounded soldiers. But isn't that just fighting for equality for the sake of equality? I don't think so. I think there's a lot that women could do.

Maybe they're more nimble or maybe they could. There is a lot they can do. But again, you're missing my point. You're missing my point. It doesn't have to be physical strengths. I'm not saying. Could you just make your point again? Well, I will.

No, because I don't think either of you're understanding it. It's not one is. better than the other. I'm just saying they can't be equal. It's that simple. I don't understand how difficult the concept is for you. Equality is not something that you can have between two things that are different. If I'm holding up this can

here and I'm holding up a cup over there, they're not equal. They're different, right? But they're both for drinking out. You can do anything you like with it. I mean, I can think of a few things you can do that. They both achieve the same thing, which is a bit like men. No, they don't actually. Well, not really, no. You see, that's twisting the whole actual facts of what I'm presenting you with. I'm telling you

that that's a can and that is a cup. They're not the same. Anna, mate, why do you struggle to feel like actually masculinity can be a positive thing for a woman? Masking is a very positive thing. I'm married to a man who's a north star of decency and generosity and goodness and he's brought up a family with me. He's a fantastic dad, a fantastic grandfather. He is a role model of what a masculine or a man is. He's not the same as me. He's different to me. So he's not equal to you then. Does he want to protect you?

Actually, I'd say my husband is better than me in a lot of, in terms of his intellectual and his kindness. I would say that. And does he want to protect you? He looks after us all. He looks after us all, just as I would look after him. So, you know, you... But you see, what I mean by the equality thing, though, it's the wrong word.

You know, I agree with what you're saying. Everything you say is right. Your husband's probably a great guy. He has to put up with you, which is, you know, obviously not easy. He's a hero. I mean, you really give him a medal. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're all there to work together. We're all there to have respect for each other

and that's what we should have. And there's absolutely no way that I'm saying that somebody is a better person than another person or that women are setting classes. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you should stop trying to make everybody equal. But do you get, there's a woman's choice? It's a woman's choice if she wants to join the armed forces or...

Well, not necessarily. No, I don't think. So you'd actually veto it. No, I think there are certain jobs that women shouldn't be doing. You choose those. You choose them. Well, they should be chosen by a common-sensical defense force, which doesn't bend to the wokeists. I know plenty of people that work in the...

armed forces. I don't know how many you know. But they will tell me that you can go into a mess, which has got signs on the doors. They've got gender neutral toilets. They've got signs up saying, please make sure you don't use words like manpower. You know, they've been taken over by the DEI brigade, right? And I don't think that's very healthy for the I mean, anime, do you have a problem with words like manpower? No, I don't. I don't think that's the real world. I mean, I'm talking about real world's opportunities. Yeah, but everyone can ignore those together. You can't ignore them. You can. You can. You can't, DEI is not something to ignore.

It's how we've got into this mess in the first place. Well, it's not a mess if it gives women opportunities. I'm not talking about, it doesn't just give women opportunities. It doesn't just give women opportunities. Look at the RAF who completely banned anybody white from becoming a pilot. They didn't ban any women from becoming a pilot. Well, we're back on Islam soon. Well, no.

Well, I'm back on the way that this country has been led, and it's been led by people who think it's okay for women to have a penis. Who are you talking about? The government. I'm talking about all governments. They've all gone down the same bloody road, and they've wasted an opportunity. I'm not the only one that's right.

No, I speak for an awful lot of people. But to be honest, I think it's really terrible that in this discussion, you just dismiss the impact of Islam. Because the fact is, the fact is it is women who are treated appallingly as a result of Islam, put in letter boxes, told that they have to marry particular men when they're 12 years old, told that they are not able to vote for who they want to, told that they always have to

obey. I would think feminists... Dan, I've heard you say this on so many topics. Well, is it not true? Let's come back another day and talk about Islam but you can't apply Islam to every single debate topic as the problem. But it's quite an interesting one though. But it's not what we're talking about. Well, it's part of this change. So Islam is part of toxic...

Absolutely it is. Well, that's where the real toxic... Absolutely. I don't agree with that. Well, that's where the real toxic massiness is. I mean, you know, in what other religion do you walk through a different door because you're a woman to go into a place of worship because you're not allowed in the same one where the men go because they're too busy getting you don't think Islamism is toxicly masculine i'm not just i i'm happy to discuss it in a discussion about islam but i'm not slapping it okay well you raised it actually anime you raised it you raised it and i just said

you said you're you said you'll you said no no no no no you said i had not mentioned it in this debate at all you said the tape you mentioned it earlier you were talking about the um yes in the previous debate but in this debate you said you'll be raising Islam next. And I said, well, actually, come to think of it. Yes, but you raised it, not me. So let's just get the facts. Can we say it on the subject?

Well, I think it's part of the subject. And I'd be glad if you didn't. I'm sorry, nothing is censored off the table. Right, right. Well, let's move it on to another subject inside of the masculine female conversation, right? What do you think of men who wish to go into women's toilets, even though they're not women? Scandless. So you don't think they should be allowed in there?

Because they're not women. So trans women should not be allowed into women's toilets. Trans women, I wish them the best. I wish them good health. I wish them happiness, but they're not women. They should have separate facilities. Like what, what, what, trans facilities? Unisex, if they want to use them.

Unisex. A unisex toilet, a man's toilet, a woman's toilet. They don't want to go in the man's toilet because they say they get the fund made out of them. Well, that's... I'm not pleased in that. I'm telling you what I think should happen. So you're saying they shouldn't have a toilet at all?

They absolutely shouldn't be in, women spaces? 100%. Are they equal to women? Yes, of course. Everyone's equal. So everyone's equal in your eyes. So a man who pretends to be a woman is equal to a woman.

He has the same rights in law. In fact, he's protected under the Equalities Act. Bonkers. He's not actually because under the new laws which were passed by this government, you know, men who are not women biologically do not have the same rights as women who are biological women. That law has been made. Has it changed the previous one? It has.

It has. Sociality has. Oh, I have to check that. You don't need to check it. You can check it with me. Trust me. They have changed the law. I'm saying.

Did you think that was toxicly masculine? I'm not sure if I believe it. I'd have to check it because my research last night. Are men who dresses women toxicity masculine? Well, they're not masculine. What about the ones that are in women's prisons because they've raped women? Are they toxicly masculine? So where are we going here?

Everyone is equal in the law and has a human rights. Yeah, but a man does not have a human rights. The position on trans is not what you think it is. I don't know what it is. That's why I'm asking you. I'm for women's rights. And I think trans has moved over into women's rights too far. Okay.

So that's where I am with it? So where would you send a trans woman if they committed a crime? A trans woman. So have they got a penis? Yes. Obviously they should be a man's man. In a man's jail? Yes.

Because they're men. But they're not. They're in women's jails. Well, I didn't make that choice. I didn't decide that. No, I know. But they are. What would you do?

I put them in a jail all on their own without the ability to mix with anyone. That's what I would do, which is what like you do with sex offenders because most of them are in jail for sex offences, funnily enough. And that's why they shouldn't be anywhere near women's prisons. I think that would transgress their human rights.

Okay. Okay, well, look, fascinating. Fascinating. That went round the houses. A little bit toxic, but let's move on. Some might say, he's the devil. He's the person to blame for Brexit, which I think is a great thing.

But of course there's others who are convinced that he's the best man out there to save the disunited kingdom from its descent into a communist Islamist shithole. So 2029 could well see Nigel Farage become our prime minister. And in the clash takedown, Mike Graham is going head to head on this against Amy Anzell and Anna May Mangon. So Mike, 60 seconds. Why do you think Nigel Farage would make me? a great prime minister? I think he would make a great prime minister because he's not like the other prime ministers that we've had over the course of the last 25 or 30 years. I mean, ever since Tony Blair got into charge of this government in 1997, we've been led by a sort of complete and utter

cavalcade of nonsense from Blair to Brown to Cameron, to Theresa May, to Boris Johnson, to Rishis Sunak, I can't remember if I've missed anybody out. And now, of course, Kirstama, who's absolutely hopeless. And the whole country, the reason we're arguing about all the things we're arguing about, right now is because the whole country has been taken on this ridiculous journey where common sense has been thrown out the window where people have been disregarded because they're the wrong race or they're the wrong colour or they're the wrong creed or they're just not important enough our schools have been completely destroyed our defences as we've said before have become worthless we've got no border control we've got anybody can come in nijal ferrash is the only real

political sort of hope i think for this country because he can see by talking to people around the and he gets on very well with the people that he talks to, he can see what their concerns are and he can see how to fix this country. And he's the only person that I can see who knows how to do that. So I think hopefully it will happen before 2029 because this hopeless government that we have now will collapse in on itself and just end up in some kind of financial ruin. And we'll have to have an election. And I think we're ready for it.

Anna Mae Mangon, take him down. Yeah. Well, I think he looks like a contender at the moment because he's up against Kirstama. So it makes him look better than he actually is because I don't know anything about the man. I know about what he's done with Brexit and all the things? But what are his policies and who are his merry band? When you look at them, they are a bunch of like rejects, really, a lot of them from the Tory party. And I believe a lot of the people he's taken in, like not too much Anne Wickham because I think she's passed it.

But let's talk about Jenric and the blonde Nadine Doris. I think they're in there serving themselves. So I don't know who he's going to rely. on when he gets into power to form a government if he gets into power. So I think that he's too much of an unknown quantity. But of course, this is talking doom because there is nobody. If it's not him, I mean, can't be Ed Davy. He's on the water slide more often than he's in Parliament.

It's not, well, Cammy Baysnock, I give her a chance. And it's obviously not anybody in the Labour Party. Rupert Lowe of Restore Britain. You haven't mentioned him. No, I don't know. I think he's a bit extreme for my taste, to be honest. But I just think Nigel Fries, I know he's a patriot. I know that. And I believe that. But I'm not sure if he's the right man for the job.

The problem is, is that the people you've just described who are currently in charge are not qualify for the job either. I mean, not one of them. You know, not one of them has ever run a business. Not one of them has ever done anything worth a fag end. But did I say they were doing a good job? No, I'm not saying you did. But I'm just saying that, you know, to compare him to people who are currently in charge

and to say he's not really qualified for the job because you don't know who he'd put together as a team. Any team that you put together would be better than this lot, wouldn't they? My fear is that they would be the same, and that's even worse. I don't think they could be anywhere as bad as this, because like I say, this entire kind of cohort of MPs on the front bench of the Labour government

are all completely, in utterly to a man and woman, useless. But Adam, how can you say that you don't know Nigel Friott's? Like, he is the most scrutinized, tested politician of a generation. They have come for him about every aspect of his life. His personal life.

His finances. Whether he bullied people at school. Like, come on, you do know Nigel Farage. He doesn't actually try and hide who he is. He's had trouble relationships and marriages. He's honest about that. He doesn't hold himself up as some type of power of virtue of virtue. I think we know a hell of a lot more about Nigel Farage than we have ever known about Supri Starma.

My worry about him is that he's a one policy politician. It's immigration, isn't it? He wants to be. And the other thing is he wants to be PM, but actually he's not much of an MP, is he? Because he gets a lot of criticism from his Clacton constituents. They say he's not present.

No. He gets a lot of criticism for people who are not actually in Clacket. Those losers led by don'tkeying. Who don't say a word about all of the corruption within Labour but are obsessed with Nigel Frudge. What, do you expect him to be in Clacton every day of the week? He wants to be Prime Minister. On a Friday, on a Friday afternoon like every other politician.

He was in Clacton on Friday. He was in Clacton. previous Friday. He campaigns around the country. The thing is people hold him up to a different standard and they expect him to be in his own constituency all the time. He's also the leader of a party. Do you ever see Kirstama wondering about his link? He said, no, because every time he goes anywhere, they all start throwing things at him and calling him a wanker because everybody hates him, right? Same goes for Kemi Bader. I don't see her in her constituency walking around, but she doesn't get any claim for that. You know, Zach Polanski's not even MP. And he's supposedly

the great white hope for coming into government, you know. And so I think, the thing about Nigel Farage is that he is held up to a different Saturday. That's right. We know an awful lot more about him than we know about Starmes' private life or than we know about Kami Baderna's private life. My other point is the more international one that his association with Trump probably isn't serving him well

at the moment. Why? Why not? The majority of British people are happy that we didn't go to war. No, we did go to war though. That's the point. If you bought and sucked down the Kool-Aid, you know, Kirstama didn't not go to war. All he said was we wouldn't join in with putting our

bases and making them available to American flights, right? Which he then later did. So you turned on that as well. What about Kirstama's association with Peter Mandelson? I'd say that's a little bit worse, wouldn't you, than Nigel Farage being mates. By the way, he says he hasn't spoken to Trump in weeks. They should have him ambassador. They should have.

They should have. And it was suggested by Lord Glassman and rejected. And instead, they chose to go with the most dodgy, the most corrupt man in modern You're heading a bucket for the last five years to decide to appoint him as anything, wouldn't you? Of course. So that goes without saying. But I'm just, Trump is not popular at the moment.

And his association with Trump could be harming him. He's very popular at the moment. The other thing is, when Trump was first elected, I thought, oh, a bit of disruption might be a good thing. And then it'll all settle down and then we'll get somebody after him who's even, who's better. And I kind of thought that about Nigel Farage up to a point. But now I'm not, I really am not sure.

And I think there's too many ticks in the negative. list for me than positives. Well, the point is, is that he's got an awful lot of support on the ground. You know, people are fed up... People are fed up with politics in general. They don't like what they call the uni party. They don't want to get Labour or, you know,

this is pretty much, this whole year, I think, will prove to be the beginning of the end of Labor and Conservatives of the two most powerful, you know, political parties in the country. And instead, you are going to, people are going to vote reform in massive numbers and they're going to continue to vote reform in massive numbers until, unless, and until something terrible happens. but they certainly don't want the Tories

and they certainly don't want the Labour Party. It's a bit like marrying someone you don't know very well, isn't it? Is it? Yeah, choosing him would be like, am I sure about this? But I don't understand that we know him, he is more scrutinized than any politician

of the modern era. I can't think of one policy that he sells as much as immigration. Can you? Well, he's talked about the two-child benefit cap. Well, he had to do a disastrous, he's a different. He talks about, well, his policy is to support it now.

No, other than that. Other than reversing someone. Well, I'm not going to sit here and be a spokesperson for the reform policy. But you're not. No, not really. No, not really. Just tell me one other. One other thing. I'm telling you they've got policy on welfare,

that they would not give as much universal benefit out as he's currently going on. They would be much more hard down. They've said they'd be much harder on people who are claiming universal credit because they've got anxiety, for example. And the welfare bill everybody knows has to be stressed. But the Tories have said that as well. Yeah, but the fact is, well, nobody cares what the Tories say because they had a chance to do it when they were in.

and they actually made it worse. So that's the reason why people don't listen to them. And Mike, personally, you have known a Nigel Farge for a long time. I have. What's he like as a person? He's a very, very friendly, generous and entertaining and charming individual. And everybody who meets him says that. You know, people run up to him in the street.

They want a picture with him. You know, most politicians don't get that. As I say, Kirsteim against people throwing rotten fruit at him and basically calling him names. You know, Nigel Farage is a man of the people, self-starred man of the people. Yes, he's got a lot of money. most politicians do.

And he has an effect on people, ordinary people, who see him as somebody they can relate to. And during your recent cancellation scandal, he stayed loyal to you? He did, absolutely, yeah. And a lot of people don't. No, a lot of people didn't. I mean, when I started doing my new show,

Tory MPs that used to come on the show all the time, suddenly didn't want to come on. Now they do, funnily enough, because of the numbers, and they see the numbers, and they go, oh, actually, we've got to go back on my Graham show. Labor have completely gone away. They never used to come on much anyway, but now they don't bother.

And so the ordinary people of this country are either sticking up now for Restore Britain, as you said, Rupert Lowe on the right, or Nigel Farage on the right. What they're not doing is voting to conservative. And the loopy Greens, who, you know, might do well in the short term, I think they will be exposed because even Steve Reid, who I'm not a big fan of, wrote at the weekend the other day, that basically the Corbinistas have now moved away from Labour, the anti-Semites, you know, the Blue Hair Brigade. and all the crazies have gone now to the Green Party.

But that won't work. That won't last because he's insane. Amy Anzal, take him on. In which respect, there's so much to cover. You go where you want to go. And wherever you like. Well, look, I mean, I've done Nigel's show on GP News many times. I think he's a great guy, like you said, he's probably a great friend.

His campaigning skills are fantastic. He's beloved and people want photos with him. And he's like the rock star campaigner and politician. But do we know much about his? governing ability when it comes to leading a mass party. Yeah. Well, I think he was pretty successful when he ran the Brexit Party. I mean, the Brexit Party was launched and formed and elected to get into the European Parliament,

cause a lot of trouble and get us out of the European Union. And it worked. That was his one policy. And you say he only has one policy now. His policy was to get us out of the European Union. And it worked. So he's got a track record. See, interestingly, I actually think Nigel Farage will go down in history.

I think he is the most consequential politician since Thatcher, and other than Thatcher, the most consequential post-war politician in the United Kingdom. Where I come from this, though, Mike, is I worry that the error of Nigel might be coming to an end. Like, he was uber important during Brexit. He got that done. But people really want more now, Mike. Like, you must get that sense. You obviously speak to people who watch your show all the time.

time. And there is this real drive towards people saying, and I get it, you know, Nigel is almost stuck 10 years ago. It's like we want more, harder policies. And this is where I see the Rupert Lowe, Restore Britain thing.

But Rupert's going to have the same problem that Nigel had, say he's maybe a year behind him because, you know, having split from reform and having gone out on his own, he's finding it now the job that he's got to find other people to help him get where he wants to go. And I think reform have been doing that now for a good year and a half, two years.

And they're still struggling because, you know, as you say, there's not that many clever people out there. And you might not like Robert Jennerick, but I think he's quite a good addition. I think Danny Kruger is also quite good. I think Anne Whittickham isn't going to run for any particular office, but she's a good old hand. A good old hand.

She's past it. That sounded a bit ages to be anime for someone who's meant to be pro-women. She's not got the energy for him. No, she says that. She doesn't want to be an MP. I have her on my show once a week. We call it Whitty Weekly. And she's brilliant, right?

And she's got some great ideas. And she's a dancing superstar. She's also somebody who's a proper conservative, which the Conservative Party don't have anymore, right? So the thing is that, you know, and he knows as well, and I know that he's had a lot of criticism from the restored people on this, that as you become more mainstream and as you become more popular, you sometimes leave some people behind.

Yes. Because you can't please everybody all of the time. And I recognise that, and I'm sure he does. But even he says himself, you know, you can't, you know, you have a go at me for whatever I do. If I hire people from the Tory party, you have a go. If I don't hire people from the Tory party, you say you haven't got anybody that's ever been in government.

You know, so you can't come at it from all angles and say everything he's doing is wrong. I think he's doing the best job he can to make them an electable government. And we'll see whether that works. I think there's a massive sneer factor in politics now, in general. And he suffers from it probably more than the other party. And so that affects my thinking,

and I think a lot of people's thinking in as much as am I going to put my money on black or red or green? What horse are you back in in this next election? Please don't bring race into this. Yeah. But that's, I mean, that is the world we now live in. You know, we are at what I think is a really, really important part of our history.

You know, I think this year, as I said, is this the year that reform emerges as the contender as the new form of politics in this country. You might not like it. But, you know, for me, the Labour government and the Tory opposition are not responding well to it because all they're doing is what they always do. But where are the statesmen of British politics now? When I look back, I think of even Gordon Brown. I mean, what a decent man he was.

Well, I don't know about that. I knew Gordon Brown pretty well. He wasn't decent. Do you not think that he was ethical? No, he was a bully. He was a massive bully. Big time bully. I don't know why.

Treated women terribly, which you wouldn't have liked. He didn't get what he wanted, though, did he? But I'm just, all right, there's Michael Heseltine then. Or, you know, people who has principled? But, yeah, well, who would you choose then? I want someone to come into the arena of British Party. Thatcher. We need the new Thatcher. We need a new Thatcher. Yeah, I think that's about right.

And that's my, look, I completely agree with you. Farage is a big, brilliant campaigner. And as I say, I think his legacy is secure, actually, whether he becomes prime minister or not. I understand why he wants to be prime minister. Personally, I think he's making some of the wrong steps. But it's going to be very interesting. But where I disagree, Aname is I think to say that we don't know about him, I would argue this dude has been tested more than anyone.

one else, more than anyone else. I think he's had a lot of manure thrown at him, hasn't he? About his finance. Both metaphorically and literally actually. None of it sticks. None of it sticks. None of it sticks. No, as in the voters head. No, I don't think it does. I don't think so. Most voters are going to vote for him. But, but look, what I think we can say is that Farage isn't a new force and that does bring some issues with it because he obviously does have a lot of people who've already made their mind up one or another. And for me, I look at someone like Rupert Lowe, and I'm like, okay, he's a new force that brings a lot of excitement.

And I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that he doesn't have the name recognition as someone like Farage. But look, let's move on because woke indoctrination, smearing of patriots and a house full of pedos. Yes, that's right. It's time. The BBC, or as I like to call it, the British Bashing Corporation, should be shut down. This is the clash take down with Mike Graham, who is going up again.

against Amy Anzell and Anna May Mangon. Mike, 60 seconds, this corrupt, crooked organization has to go. It shames our country, does it not? It absolutely does shame our country. It doesn't have anything to speak of that they can be proud of. They've destroyed their own legacy, partly because they've infested the entire corporation, if you like, with people who have got the same mindset.

You know, journalism in this country has suffered massively over the last few decades, because everybody who's in it, particularly the BBC, have all gone through the same system, the same schools, the same universities, the same woke mind virus, as you describe it. And they're all left wing as hell. And so, you know, they don't even know what news is anymore.

I put on the news at six now for a laugh, you know, because it's not actually news. It's usually some kind of campaigning, interview with somebody who's suffering from something or other. You know, they don't cover, they haven't covered some of the biggest stories that we've been covering over the course of the last two or three years because they don't think it's very important.

You know, we know for a fact that they've certainly encouraged people to behave in ways which you would never be allowed to behave in any other major organization. I mean, only the other week we heard that somebody who hasn't been named, who's a newsreader, broke a woman's wrist in some kind of altercation during the time at work. You know, we know about Hugh Edwards, he was sending pictures of his ass to people while he was reading the news. I mean, if that's not the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard, I don't know what is. Teenagers.

We know, yeah, we know about the... the situation with Scott Mills. I'm told that some of the kids involved with him were very young indeed. And so that's why that story's gone very quiet. And I don't understand why the BBC is held in such reverence by people in this country anymore, because it really shouldn't be. Because there have been so many scandals. I mean, one of those scandals would have sunk any other organisation.

This one still goes. Apparently they're going to shut down the BBC news channel, which is no bad thing, because then, again, don't cover any news. We will actually have a party. We will have a party. because every time you put it on, and it's not very often these days, you get some new anchor who you've never seen before. There are thousands of these people who all get paid sort of 65, 75,000,

£75,000 a year who sit in a cupboard somewhere for most of the year, and then they put them out once a year to read the news. And you just think, what's all that about? I was on a plane once, and they've got their own plane channel, which they sell to British Airways. And it's completely differently produced, completely differently put together to everything else that they do. They've got Jeremy Bowen, you know, the self-claiming, you know,

Gaza representative of the BBC, who last time he interviewed somebody from Hamas, started out by giving him a hug. And you're going, what the hell is going on here? And it's so biased against Israel that is completely nuzzly shameful. So I see no reason. And also for the license fee, where they make you go and pay for it, otherwise you're going to prison. And they prosecute an awful lot of elderly women who've forgotten to pay.

And I think it's a terrible organisation. It needs to go. 100%. And can I just add to what you said, this would have sunk. any private company long ago. And I mean, I just think back to the fact that they killed Princess Diana and also protected Jimmy Saffa. I mean, that would be enough.

That would be enough, let alone all of these newscastles. And then, by the way, with the Princess Diana thing, they went on to rehire Mars and Bashir and give him a big fat paying job after he effectively ended up killing the princess via his decisions. Amy Anzel, take him down. Well, it's interesting you talked about BBC news, but you didn't talk about anything else that the BBC does. And they do so many other things wonderfully. And I've been here for 16 years in the UK.

I've watched all kinds of programming from the children's programming that my son watched all the time, the documentaries, educational programming. The point is it's world class. I mean, the David Attenborough Planet Earth was just brilliant. Some of the dramas they've done, Sherlock, Piki blinders. And he's gone to Netflix now anyway. Award-winning incredible programming. So that's something you missed out in your little one-minute speech. Because we're paying for this so-called award-winning, brilliant programming.

And I don't see why we should, because the BBC is a public service broadcaster. It shouldn't be making strictly come dancing. It shouldn't be making, you know, documentaries with David Attenborough and paying him a fortune and flying people around the world to tell lies on his behalf. They also shouldn't be doing drama, which is the purview of the commercial division. Because if you're running ITV or you're running Channel 5, you should be able to get commercial backing to do shows which people want to watch. The BBC has no business sucking up loads of public money and spending it on ridiculously, crazily expensive actors who need to be

paid a fortune to work for them. That's not their job. But their job is to create incredible programming that we all enjoy. And the nice thing is they don't have to worry about making a profit. And so they can just seriously focus on what makes great entertainment, what makes great programming. And they do that really well. If it doesn't make a profit, it doesn't work. Does you have to win the BBC? The best of their output does actually make a profit, doesn't it? They sell it worldwide and they make an awful lot of money. Some of it does, yeah.

But most of it doesn't. And they go back. Then they can stand on their own two goddamn feet. No, because it's a notion of public service. It's not public service. Pecky blinders is not public service, isn't it? Pest control, need to go in there and sort them out. They need to be severely.

Too late for that. It's full of pidos. They need to never again, on the next decade, not employ anybody from public school or Oxbridge. they've got to go straight out and they can refresh it. Isn't the bigger issue the fact that they seem to constantly hire paedophiles? Isn't that a bigger issue, anime? There's other channels who, I'm not going to name names,

but there's other companies and channels that have had their issues. I'm sorry, you don't think the BBC has an issue with paedophiles? Of course. I mean, do you want me to get the list up? No, I'm saying that it's not the only one. And it's not a reason for closing down, strictly come dancing and making it finance itself. All right. Well, what public service has strictly come dancing,

operate for you then. Well, I think we pay loads of people a load of money that they wouldn't get if they went into the private sector. I don't like it. They just end up all shagging each other, don't they?

There's a BBC in a nutshell. You like, you don't like it, I like it. No, it's nothing to do with that. It's not their job. It's not their job. It's not their job. Strictly would survive. The traitors would survive.

The apprentice would survive. What wouldn't survive would be all of the dishonest, woke, bullshit and lies that we have shoved down our throat. The BBC can survive just like any other organisation. I'd lose news 24. I'd lose it. But why should we be paying for it? That's my point. I cut a lot of the channels, the music channels. There's too much duplication there. They could go.

And I wouldn't let anyone access the BBC or World Service without paying a subscription for it. That would solve things because there's people all over the world enjoying what we're paying for. And people do pay for a subscription overseas. It's not good enough. The reality is we are forced to pay a tax. It is a poll tax. The BBC should be a voluntary subscription service. If you love it enough, you'll pay for it. Yeah. Okay?

The notion that's a one... People pay £120 a month for Sky. Have you seen the children's appell? I mean, that is exceptionally good. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. Rubbish. I've got six grandchildren.

They all love it. I've got lots of kids. I mean, it's not a question of how many kids you've got. Have you seen... It's not quality. It's woke nonsense. What are you talking about Louis? Oh no, Bluey's Australian.

Well, exactly. And the BBC bought it. That's the point. So we don't need. There's lots of like semi-documentary programs that my lot watch and it's just they're just so they're they're not rubbish they're not they're not proceedings by a load of abuse but they're very expensive is the problem and that's my issue but they can trim that my first thing is they cut it all down but they're also woke that woke it's trying to

teach kids to think in a particular way people are woke now are you joking I'm not joking I'm not joking I think people have the workforce is woke so they're preparing the children to enter the workforce which is okay so unfortunately it's this is You know what shocks me, Mike. Yeah. Your two contenders actually want the BBC to indoctrinate children with woke ideology. Yeah, I know, but that's the problem. To teach them, for example, that reform is bad and that if you see Nigel Farage, you throw

something at him. We want them to do? Children don't watch the news. I think there's twin doctors on there who do a program that teaches about the human body, and they're absolutely brilliant. Yeah, they're very woke as well. They're very woke. I know them.

I've had them on my show. I thought them unfold colon, isn't it, how many four hundred feet long it is. I mean, that's nothing woke about that. It's just educational. But they also probably told them all to have the COVID jab as well. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the thing. You can't have wokeery running a news organization and or a public service organization which is meant to only do things around public service. It doesn't do that. It shouldn't do anything else but public service. You usually think it should do everything but that. You don't want it to do news. You want it to do everything but news.

Well, I don't think they're very good at news. Not very good at news. Recently, they've been a disaster at news. You know, probably been the news. It could be the news. the new slogan. The BBC, we're not very good at news. The COVID-Jabs is a great example, actually. So you want them to tell people not go against government recommendations. I want them to ask questions like we did. Yeah, I don't want them to be government propagandist because Anna Mae,

I know you're someone who is very pro-vaccine for lots of different reasons, but actually there are a lot of people who the BBC were very wrong to advise that if they didn't take that jab, they were in some way letting down the country. Yeah. And the COVID inquiry has proven that. Beyond the Shadow of a doubt, and has said that everybody should have been a lot more skeptical about what was being put out by the government. And the BBC did not do any of that. Throughout all of COVID. Yeah, throughout all of COVID.

It's not just about the jabs. It's about everything. The BBC was a huge part in sort of terrorising the nation. And it was really, really harmful. I don't think they're terrorised the nation. I think I made an informed choice about the COVID jab. I heard what the government said. I looked up the information that was available at the time.

And I was very happy to have it. You didn't find any information that was not advising you to take it. Well, I must admit, I've got two daughters who were doctors who were working on the front line at the time, and they influenced me greatly to take it as well. Yeah. Well, I can find you to other doctors. But yeah, I was going to say, look at the percentage of take up of the jab amongst NHS staff members. You can't shut down the BBC, but advocating a jab.

Oh, I can. Oh, I can. No, no, no, but I would, Mike, I would shut it down for that alone. Yeah. Actually, I really would shut it down for any number of things. Yeah, but that was actually one of the stories of the stories of. of our time. Now Mike and I were both working at talk radio at the time and we came under a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure from government, a lot of pressure from our own company that was pretty

much supporting Boris Johnson at the time. And throughout all of 2020 and then I obviously went to GB News and Mike stayed, but throughout all of 2020, we asked incredibly difficult questions. It was our duty as journalists to do that. The BBC totally failed. Absolutely right. And they didn't ask any questions. They simply took government policy And there is, why aren't you locking down harder? I know. But this is the thing.

And, you know, if you want an organisation to be a proper journalistic organisation, they have to question things. You can't have a company which is just a propagandist for the government because that takes you to some very dark places, I'm afraid. Okay. Now, I'll make you find a point. No, I was just going to say, was it the only organisation, the news organisation that did that at the time?

No, no, but it's the only one. It's not really relevant to this discussion. But anime, it's the only one that I get locked up for if I refuse to pay the poll. tax and I want to watch television. That's the problem. My God, I have my issues. Trust me, anyone who watches a show with Wokai TV and Sly News, but I'm not

having to pay for them at threat of being locked up if I refuse to, yet I still want to watch television. That's the problem. I actually want to watch TV. You know, I want to be able to watch TV. Well, don't worry, now they're going to launch 52 different YouTube channels. Oh, of course. Are they should be in the money? Do you think we should be funding that as well?

We're head hunting you. Well, I've actually done shows for the BBC. They're trying to destroy us. And when I did do shows for them in BBC Scotland, we used to have about 15 people working on production where in any normal commercial organisation, you'd have one or two. 100%.

And that's a problem. 100%. But look, what we do at the end of the takedown, and I need you to all be honest about this, because this has been a really fascinating conversation, and there will have been moments that you will have questioned what each other were saying. So Anna May, where did Mike convince you?

He didn't He lost me With blind support for Nigel Farage So nothing There's nothing that you've learned from my today I think of me about Sadiq Khan though Yeah he totally changed you mind I only agreed with me about Sadiq Khan

But you didn't convince me I had actually decided that already Or by myself Equal to your thoughts as a woman I decided that for myself How funny How toxic Amy Anzel

I'm feeling bullied there Even though I'm a New Yorker And a Londoner you did really convince me with the statistics about the crime in London. I do know there is a lot, but those statistics that you read off were. Frightening. Okay, Mike, what about Amy and Anna changed your mind? I was charmed by both of them, which will really piss them off, I think, because, you know, you don't...

Toxic, masculine. But this is exactly the kind of conversations we should be having in this country. What we shouldn't be doing is what an awful lot of people do, which is to just dismiss whatever anybody else says and not listen to it and not kind of take their point of view because, you know, there's plenty of intelligent people in this country. And I think we talk down to too often by the politicians. I mean, look at what Zach Poulanski says to people. Look at what Nigel Farage actually doesn't say to people because he, actually there was a piece

recently in the Sunday Times in an interview by somebody who was talking to Zach Pallanski who said, you know, when Nigel Farage meets somebody he doesn't agree with, he has a conversation with him. Zach Poulansky doesn't. And I think we could all benefit. And so I had an absolute blast talking to both of you. I take your point about women and I think we just had a slight misunderstanding

about the term equality which I'll send you an essay on later which you can read your leisure I'm so excited and a great to meet a fellow New Yorker because I consider myself to be a New Yorker and so it's nice to have an international flavour but you know I just

I was taken by lots of different points of views that they had well no I really enjoyed it all I would say is that there was a slam done con calm There was a total slam-dug-concar. Because to me, that was the most important debate because it is actually impossible to defend what's going on.

It's impossible to defend. And unfortunately, it's a sorry sign of where the whole country could be hitting, which is why this debate is so important. But anyway, we will do it again. Anna Mae Mangon and Amy Ansel, stars of our Clash Take-Dow. And of course, Mike Graham can be heard on the Mike Graham show, which I watch every single morning as I wake up,

7 a.m. till 9.30am on YouTube and Substack 2. And then, of course, plank of the week, the original and the best, comes out at 7pm on a Friday, right. Amazing. Well, thank you all for being here. Thanks, Stan. And we are moving over to Substack now for Royal Uncancelled Aftershow. You can sign up at www.org.org.com.com. dot live. We will be back with you tomorrow though. 5 p.m. midday eastern time, sorry, 5 p.m. UK time, midday eastern time, 9 a.m. Pacific. We're able to hit subscribe right now on YouTube. Turn on the notification bell for all of our new episodes. We'll also have a little as a podcast too. You can subscribe

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