Dan Wootton Outspoken - MSM CANCELS TOMMY ROBINSON IN DEEP STATE PLOT TO SHUT DOWN OPPOSITION, SAYS CAROL MCGIFFIN

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Go to https://ground.news/outspoken to see through media bias and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month. A special edition of the Uncancelled Interview coming up with the original Loose Woman (before the show went woke and became an epic failure) Carol McGiffin, the legendary broadcaster, podcaster, columnist and author joins Outspoken for the first time. As a free speech warrior who found herself cancelled by the MSM after taking on globalist authoritarianism during Covid, how worried do we need to be as Britain now sees a host of political prisoners from Tommy Robinson to Lucy Connolly? PLUS: Does the government have any plans to stop the invasion of the UK via our southern border? AND: What caused Loose Women to go woke and, after half of its jobs and episodes were axed, is it the end of daytime TV on Woke ITV?  THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW:  Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Woodson. This is Outspoken, episode number 256, a very special edition of the uncancelled interview coming up.

The one, the only, the original Loose Woman before the show went woke and became an epic failure, Carol McGifford, the legendary broadcaster, podcaster, columnist and author joins Outspoken for the first time. As a free speech warrior who found herself cancelled by the MSM after taking on globalist authoritarianism during COVID, how worried do we need to be as Britain now sees a host of political prisoners from Tommy Robinson to Lucy Connolly. Also coming up on the show today, does the government have any plan to stop the invasion of the UK via our southern border? What caused Loose Women to go woke?

And after half of its jobs and episodes were axed, is it the end of daytime TV on Wokai TV? And should any of us really care? No uncancelled after show today, but we will return next week. So please do sign up to watch on sub stack www.outspoken.live. You can register completely for free to join the Outspoken Revolution. But now let's go. Oh, Garen McGiffin, it's taken me a long time to convince you to do this. I know, I'm sorry, but you know what I'm like. I've got a bit of Zoom phobia. But you're here. You're sort of coming out of semi-retirement for me. Is that fair to

say? Kind of, yeah. I mean, I have a couple of other jobs, but yes, absolutely I am. And I haven't been on a screen for a long, long time, apart from maybe, you know, the other thing on Instagram. But no, I mean, it's got to be at least a year, two years maybe. So yeah, especially for you, Dan. I've missed you so much and I haven't seen you for so long. I know. It's been too long.. I know it's been too long. It really, really has been too long.

And the last time I saw you Caroline, I have to thank you, I was in the middle of my cancellation hell and you were an absolute rock, which you can't say for many people in this industry. So I so appreciate it. I felt for you, I really felt for you, but look at you now. Now we're here, we're going. You're right back. Yes, good for you, I really felt for you, but look at you now! Now we're here, we're going!

You're right back, yes, good for you. And look, Harold, we've got so much to talk about. Obviously I want to come to everything that's gone on in our former employer, Woke ITV, as I call it later in the show. But we've got to kick off with the news, and I think the most disturbing development since we last spoke although I'm sure it's something to be honest that you did predict was the fact that now in the United Kingdom we actually have political prisoners. We actually have in our country people who are behind bars because they challenged the narrative,

they posted something on X, they posted something on Facebook that maybe the authorities didn't like. I mean, this is truly dystopian, but something that I guess you saw coming after Covid. Yeah, it's really quite disturbing isn't it really that people just for for having an an opposite opinion to something and dare to criticize something the government is pushing at the time is it it really is 1984 isn't it it's like you can't have wrong think you can't you can't think any other way other than the way that they're trying to tell you to think.

And that people can get locked up. In a way, I think a lot of the cases at the moment are there really to scare the population into not having wrong think and not thinking the opposite way, because there's so much publicity around them as well. And I don't include Tommy Robinson in that. I think that Tommy Robinson has always been an enemy of the state. They've always treated him like, you know, he's an absolute criminal.

I mean, they let people out of jail for less. I mean, you know, some of the criminals that are roaming the streets at the moment, that you read, you go, oh, he's got 18 months for raping kids or whatever. And you think, hang on, and Tommy Robinson spent a good chunk of the last few years in prison. And other people go to prison, like Bernie Spothoff that we both know,

and the Lucy Connolly case as well. I mean, it's absolutely outrageous and it's disgusting. It gets criticized by other leaders around the world. And it's like, what is going on? Why aren't people allowed to say what they think anymore? But we did see it over COVID, didn't we? I mean, Peter Lynch, who was the political prisoner behind bars, died. We're told, Carol, of course, that this is a suicide, nothing

to see here, nothing to investigate. Who actually knows what happened behind bars? Because you had sly news reporting the fact that these Muslim gangs who control most of our prisons now were actually planning to target people who were imprisoned over the course of those so-called riots. And I say so-called riots, by the way, because actually, if you look into what was going on at that time, a lot of those riots were infiltrated by Antifa to try and create like a far right bogeyman, which actually all of the official reports Carol have now admitted wasn't there.

But Peter Lynch, right, he is someone who we would have agreed with on virtually every position, right, when it came to Brexit and globalism and the authoritarianism. He was famous, Carol, for holding that sign, which simply challenged a whole load of elements of corruption in terms of the World Economic Forum and Davos. I mean, all things that you have spoken about over the past few years. Why the hell did he end up in jail and is

now dead? And the fact that that is not a national story, I think, is what shocks me so much. Yeah, it never is though, is it? I mean, that is truly terrifying. And all he was doing is what we've been trying to do for a long, long time is tell the truth. Now, the government doesn't want anybody to know what they're doing, what's going on.

And so if they jail these people, you know, we don't know, you're right, we don't know what happened to him in prison, but every time when they say, oh, there was a suicide, I mean, he may have well have killed himself because what a terrible situation to end up in for literally telling the truth and trying to warn people what's coming

and what's happening. But it's, when it's like it's like oh let's you know let's not talk about this now because you know what's what will people think it really is it's like the corruption and the guest lighting and everything that the government is indulging in at the moment is it is like reading 1984 it is exactly like that now we people are watched all the time they're being monitored all the time they're talking about bringing in a brick card they're talking about digital currency that all of these things mean that everyone who thinks they have freedom really doesn't anymore and this is this is this is what you know people have been

trying to warn other people about. But you know what, Dan, I think the biggest problem is people, they can't hear it. And it's mainly because they can't handle the truth. It's kind of too awful and too terrible, isn't it, for people to get their head around it. It did start in COVID and people then couldn't get their head around the truth. They couldn't believe that what was going on might not have been real, if you like. And then you had all the stuff with the vaccines

and people wanted to believe that these vaccines were, you know, they were needed. Of course they weren't needed. Nobody needed those vaccines. But everybody kind of went along with it because they couldn't think of the alternative and that is that the government was actually trying to harm you. So, and I don't know how you get around that because you know up to a point at the moment I'm living in the south of France, having a lovely life. And I've kind of got my head in the sand over a lot of things because it drives you mad if you think about it too much and you talk about and try and deal with what's going on

all the time. It does get you down, doesn't it? Yeah, no, it does. And that's why some people choose to bury their head in the sand. And I think especially when you see the targeting, right, of a man like Peter Lynch, simply a demonstrator trying to wake the world up, right, now dead, or actually a housewife or a grandmother like Lucy Connolly or Julie Sweeney. It's almost like what the government is saying, Carol, is it's just not worth challenging the narrative. You will lose everything. We will take your freedom. We will take your family from you. We might even take your life. And if you're someone who's got a family life,

who isn't in the media, who isn't working in this world, I can completely understand why loads of people have just deleted their social media accounts and thought, I can't take the risk. And that is chilly. It is actually because self-censorship is, this is how they shut you up, because you have to self-censorship is, this is how they shut you up, because you have to self-censor

because you're kind of aware of what might happen. I mean, I can't actually see them nipping down to the south of France to drag me back to prison. They might actually, actually I can see them doing that. Well, the police did turn up at Alison Pearson's house. I mean, when that happened, I was a bit like, oh wow, this is another level because you actually are going for mainstream journalists.

I mean, Alison Pearson is one of the only, I would argue, brave journalists working in the mainstream media left in the UK. And they did come for her. Yeah, well, this is it. They can come for anybody, anyone. Anyone who says anything. I've watched videos on YouTube of people who have had the police come around and acting in a really aggressive and shocking way because they've put a post out on social media. Now, if that's not a warning to people to just don't ever challenge it yourself, just self-censor every single time.

I've seen a lot on Twitter lately, sorry, I still call him Twitter X, of people saying that they have voluntarily been self-censoring because they're kind of worried about what happens and then they say well no I'm not going to do it anymore but you don't know if they're doing it or not because these threats are real to the to the population don't challenge the narrative as you say don't you dare challenge the narrative because will come for you and they will and they absolutely will if it happens to them it will happen to you and they will, they absolutely will. If it happens to them, it will happen to you.

And, Carol, from a, how do you put it, I guess, a celebrity point of view or a showbiz entertainment point of view, how do you get your head around and what do you think is going on when you look at Hugh Edwards, pedophile, covered up by the BBC for decades, announced the late Queen's death on air, doesn't spend a day behind bars, is on some gold plated state

pension for the rest of his days earning, you know, 400,000 pounds a year or whatever it is. Meanwhile, and I think it is persecution, but it's something we can debate and discuss. But meanwhile, you look at people who are on the other side of the argument. So I would put Russell Brand in that category, the Tate brothers in that category, and the lawfare is unrelenting for them. Ah, yeah, it is. It's, I don't know, it's really hard because,

you know, a lot of people just accuse those people that you've just named as controlled opposition and everything that happens to them, is they're all in, they're supposedly in this giant club and that is, that's the problem. The Hugh Edwards, that's a fine example of just being in, being protected in a club that we're not members of and so I'm not sure about the Tate brothers, I've never really trusted them, but I don't hate them. And I don't think they should be being locked up

every five minutes. Definitely Tommy Robinson has never spoken an untrue word in his life and shouldn't be locked up either. But yeah, I do think it's, there are very few people that you can name that might be in that club because they're all being protected by politicians,

if you know what I mean. Well, yeah, because of course, you can look at individual cases, right? And of course we're meant to live in a world where you're innocent until proven guilty and Russell Brand and the Tate brothers have actually been convicted of no crime. Right? Now that may change. Let's look at the court case. I've got my own personal views. I do believe that they are victim of

state lawfare actually on both sides of the Atlantic, but let's see, you know, let's see what happens in the trial. But I mean, Hugh Edwards is guilty, he has been found guilty. There's no question about that. And so it absolutely feels like there are these double standards which grip the mainstream. And actually, Carol, it's interesting, the Tommy Robinson thing, because obviously we had to exist in the mainstream media for all of these years and we know what it's like and that's why we have now called it out. But it was impossible to have an intelligent conversation about Tommy Robinson in the mainstream media, wasn't it? I mean, I imagine if you had tried to raise his name on Loose Women, it's just like an immediate, do not go there.

And actually it was the same at The Sun, it was the same at The Sun, it was the same at Talk, it was the same at GB News, even the apparent right wing or centre-right mainstream media organisations will not allow you to have that conversation. Yeah because I used to have to sit in meetings where everybody would just have to say the most despicable things. Like they say the same things about the Andrew Tate and the Tate brothers, President Donald Trump as well. And when we were in the meetings and not on the screen, of course I would stand up for these people to the absolute horror of my colleagues

and most of the crew. I mean, it was quite unbelievable really. of my colleagues and most of the crew. I mean, it was quite unbelievable really. Like if I'd say something like, oh, well I actually quite liked Donald Trump. It was as though I'd said, you know, you're something really personal about one of their members of their family or something.

And I really, really, like I was evil and nasty and like, you know know the disbelief was just incredible but it's the same with with all of them they will automatically say that people are either sexist or or right wing or far right usually they say not even even right wing and that is especially especially with them with Russell Brand as well who you, you know, some anonymous woman will come out of the woodwork from God knows how long, you know, the Channel 4 documentary that they made

that they didn't name a single person, and not one of the people who was accusing him. And he was literally dragged through the mud for that. And as everyone knows, mud sticks. Well, it kind of does, but he's doing all right now. I believe he's in America now. Yeah, but they're still trying to lock him up. I mean, they're literally trying to lock him up.

And I think the point with Brand, and this is where you see the corruption of the mainstream media, Carol, is they did not give a shit when he was back in Ed Miliband. They did not give a damn about his history when he was an Owen Jones fanboy. As soon as Russell Brand woke up, and he's one of these interesting people, isn't he? You certainly can't...

It sounds weird saying that now, doesn't it? Yeah, well it does. It does. But I mean he was. The thing is, look, you can't really place him on the political spectrum, can you? He's a challenger of globalism, and he would argue that he probably wasn't on the right. Yet now he is described as being far right. So, you know, we live in a weird world. But the fact is, all of these allegations, which come from over 20 years ago, the mainstream media did not give a damn. I mean, I was at The Sun, Carol, when Russell Brand was a hero.

I mean, he was being named Al Shagger of the Year multiple times. So there is a clear, an absolute clear correlation between, he questions the narrative on the two big issues of our time, COVID and the war in Ukraine, and they come for him. And they come for him in an almost deranged manner, right? Like, and this is not to say, because people get very sensitive about this. I'm not defending all of Russell Brand's behavior for his entire life.

By the way, neither is he. You know, he's very, very clear about- He's very honest about it, yeah. About how depraved his behavior was when he was in the showbiz world, the entertainment world. But you cannot tell me that when Channel 4 partners with the Times, partners with the Metropolitan Police and then the rest of the mainstream media, that this was not in some way politically motivated. In some way.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. And it was like a massive coordinated pile on, wasn't it? It was the same with you though. Right, right. People would be coming out of the woodwork with completely untrue things and you were completely vindicated. And it's exactly the same and it is, it's a witch hunt because they can't have people being popular and out there

telling people the truth and trying to warn them about what's going on. And Russell Brand is a very good example now. I mean, he has turned about completely and he always seems to be in court. I know he's in court again, I think, at the moment, isn't he? Is it going on right now? Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, it feels to me like this state will not stop until Russell Brand

and the Tate brothers and Tommy Robinson are behind bars. That's how I feel about it. And I do have a personal experience with this. I know what it's like. And with me, based on total lies, they were able to achieve their goal, which was to drive me out of the mainstream media. But of course, that's where, thank God, we, we, and really it's down to Trump, isn't it? You know, I couldn't be doing this probably on YouTube if Trump wasn't in the White House. Like that is how direct the change has been

when it comes to free speech. Yeah, when you think about it, you had a bit of a lucky escape, didn't you really? I mean, see the state of GB news now and... God. The definition of controlled opposition now, Carol, the definition of it. It's got to be, hasn't it? I mean, with all the stuff with reform and everything, it's like, you know, they're just in complete denial of what's going on. Now, this is the, that's the big question.

Who's paying these organizations? Like talk TV, I think is the same. And they just buy into everything that you imagine the government wants people to hear. The BBC have been like that for donkey's years. Channel 4 has always been like that. But now these two supposedly independent media organisations are being obviously, I don't want to say bought, but

they've got to be bought, haven't they? Bought and paid for. But they are the definition of that. Because remember, they are controlled by billionaires with their own business interests and their own desire to get close to the government. And look, I know what it's like to work for billionaires. I did it for 20 years. I hoped GB News was going to be different. I think they were really positive signs in the early days when almost like GB News was considered a joke and the establishment wasn't scared of it. At that point we did quite amazing stuff, like I think about the Mark Stein days, for example.

But there was a clear change, Neil Oliver, exactly. But there was a clear change. I mean, we were there, we saw it, didn't we? It's like as soon as they jettisoned Mark Stein, hoping to appeal to the establishment, replaced him with Jacob Rees-Mogg, that's where it changed. So a lot of people don't want to hear this, this is a problem, Carol, because I understand, right? You want to have hope. And the hope at the moment is that GB news is different and that Reform UK is different, that that is going to be the savior. I understand

that. What I think, I mean, Tommy Robinson, when he was released said, the mainstream media is the cancer killing the United Kingdom, the independent media is the cure. And that is where I think I now fit, I guess, into the ecosystem, because what we can do is hopefully help move the Overton window. Like, okay, if Reform UK is the best that we've got, I'm not convinced at this point it is with, you know, four years out from election, but let's just say it is, right? It's the best option. Okay, well then we bloody need to move that Overton window to make them braver, because right now they are so weak. They're pretty pathetic, aren't they?

The in-fighting, that's one thing. The fact that they seem to count out every other narrative that the government seems to be dictating to the other parties, they all say the same thing. And I've always said this with politicians, I don't trust reform at all, I don't trust any of them. It's like all politicians are the same, they just have different faces and it's like why do you believe in the country, do you want

to make it a better place for the people that are voting for you, or what, are you just in it for yourself and reform are beginning to look like that in even Nigel Farage who I had great hopes for. It's so disappointing, Dan, because it was a party that was going to come up and it might have made a difference a while ago but now suddenly it just seems to be giving in to everything and you know Nigel saying oh it's not possible to deport illegal immigrants you know all these things it's like hang on a minute no you're the you're the one who used to hang out and do the beach and expose all this stuff and now you're saying no we can't deport them it's not realistic it there's just

so many things Richard Tice don't trust him either I don't trust anybody within that party it's almost like it's a Trojan horse, you know what I mean? Get it in and everyone will vote for it and everyone's kind of falling for reform and then once they're in they just don't do exactly what Keir Starmer and the last Tory government would be doing. Totally and that is my fundamental view on this right? What is the point of Reform UK gaining power if they actually have no plans to change anything? And I think it's the big difference between Trump term one and Trump term two. And it's like there has to be that sort of energy.

There has to be term two energy or otherwise it's going to be pointless, you know, and nothing will change. Yeah. Why don't we have someone like Trump, why don't we have someone who will storm in there and change everything on day one, like he started, started as he meant to go on. And, you know, I'm kind of jealous and I'm no, I would love to go and live in America, but obviously it's too far to get in a dinghy to go over there and just claim asylum, isn't it?

I can't do it. And I'd have to get a green card. I'd have to, you know, it would be impossible. But while he's president, I would like to, I would go and live there if I could, but I can't. So do the government actually want to stop the boats, Carol McGiffen, because this has been your theory and obviously you're in France and this has been your theory for a number of years that actually the British deep state have no intention of putting an end to the illegal invasion of the United Kingdom

via the channel, via our southern border. Now the numbers, Carol, are out of control now. Like if you thought they were bad under the Conservative Party, they are now at record numbers. By the way, the official figures completely under-represent what's really going on because they don't take into account the people that are invading via lorries and we know those numbers are huge. And do we really trust the official figures when it comes to the boats either? I don't. So do you stand by your position that actually the British government doesn't want to stop this invasion? I would go further than that now, Dan. And I remember saying on your show when you were on that channel many times that of course they don't want to stop them. There's a reason

that they're allowing this to go ahead, right? They send out the RNLI and other rescue operations to pick them up like a taxi service. They've always done that. But I'm beginning to think that it could possibly be that the government are actively paying these people to come because the numbers, like you say, are extraordinary. You cannot tell me that, you know, they keep saying, oh we're going to clamp down on the people traffickers. And I actually think the government are the people traffickers. I think it is the government who are not only allowing this to happen, but funding it and facilitating it.

Because how else could it go on like this? Like, you know, on a good day, you've got over a thousand people turning up and they're escorted to, you know, accommodation, given day, you've got over a thousand people turning up and they're escorted to, to, you know, accommodation, given money, given phones, given... It's almost like... And when... Do you honestly think those people would be, would be able to afford whatever they say it costs, like $10,000 or whatever it took to get in a dinghy in the first place? Do you really think that? You know, some of the countries that they come from, some of the poorest countries in the world,

I just, I'm sorry, Dan, I'm just not buying it anymore. And the reason that there are so many is because it's just become like an option for people. It's like, you know, don't get a visa. And it makes my blood boil even more because people who want to go to the UK legally, it costs them a hell of a lot of money with visas, with time. If people get there and then you've got to wait a long time before you get the leave to remain and you get to stay

forever, these people are never going to get sent home, ever. They're there for good now. And the trouble that it's causing with the general population, with the unrest, and it's, I don't know, I mean, if I were a conspiracy theorist, which I am, as you know, as you know, I would say that they might want to create civil war between people because everybody... But why? Why? That's what I need to ask. Why? Because look, I think civil war is coming to the United Kingdom. So does Elon Musk. So does a whole load of people actually who I respect on this. Katie Hopkins, for example. I mean even Lisa Nandy, right? The Labour Culture Secretary said that she believes

the north of England is going to burn. So why do you think our leaders would want to encourage civil war? What would be the motivation behind that? More control of the population? Well, yeah, obviously, because war is... That's what they use every single time to get more control over people, you know, to extract money from people and control them even more. If they have a state of emergency, like they did with the Covid, they just inflict this state of emergency like they did with the COVID.

They just inflict this state of emergency on people. And then they have to do everything that you tell them to do. I do think it's about control. And I do think it's that, or it's a massive distraction for what's coming, which is, I don't know, I don't know what you think about that,

but the financial meltdown, the world global financial meltdown is definitely coming. There's unsustainable debt everywhere, and it could be that that would be, you know, I don't know, a massive distraction from this is people just lose all of their money, because that's what I think is ultimately coming. And this is why they need to get the digital ID in place. And, you know,

they use the illegal immigration as an excuse to bring in this digital ID, don't they? They keep saying, we need it to tackle illegal immigration. Yeah, but no, you don't need it. And that's the Tony Blair argument. And he seems to be pulling the strings again, Carol. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But they all I think they all think the same thing. But you don't need a digital ID to stop illegal immigration.

You just need to stop the goddamn boats. It's as simple as that. But they don't want to because they are engineering the entire crisis. It is a massive crisis and not one of those people is ever going to be sent home. No way. I don't know. Where does it go? No way. And then, then you see Matt Goodwin's research from last week, white Britons will become a minority by 2063.

The foreign- Sooner than that, I'd say. Well, exactly, will be a majority by 2079 and roughly one in five will follow Islam by the year 2100. Well, look, I think virtually anyone sound and anyone I've spoken to about these figures thinks Matt Goodwin's done a good job, but actually he's been way too conservative because you only have to look at the birth rates and

compare the birth rates, for example, in the Muslim population compared to the Christian population and you see where this is going. And again, so little fight back, so little pushback. It's from, it's coming from the likes of Charlie Kirk in the United States to actually point out there is an Islam invasion going on of the United Kingdom. No one is prepared to talk about it. And yet when Richard Tice of Reform UK was presented with Matt Goodwin's figures,

he just dismissed them. When Nigel Farage was asked if he wanted to deport, well even actually if he just wanted mass deportations, he said it was impossible. Yeah exactly, couldn't do it. I mean you know that's why you can't trust any of these politicians to do the right thing. It is, they obviously want it to happen. And Tony Blair, what the, you know, makes me want to swear the fact that he's still piping up and going, digital ID will solve this problem. No, it will solve the other problem that's coming, or, you know, it will stop people from, you know,

protesting or doing anything really, because will stop people from, you know, protesting or doing anything, really, because you'll have them, then you'll own everything that they do. But yeah, I don't know where I... I read something this morning, I'm sure, about apparently 72 schools in the UK, was it? Don't have any or just like a few white pupils, white British pupils in. Was it, I don't know, I'm sure it was 72, but I'm not sure if it was, they were 100% non-white British or there was a small percentage.

But even that really is terrifying, isn't it? Because that's the future. And like you say, with the birth rates and everything else, I really think that it, I do think it's an invasion. I've always thought it was an invasion. And I really think that it, I do think it's an invasion. I've always thought it was an invasion. And I do think that it's on track and probably sooner than than Matt Goodwin says. Yeah, I mean, already, so the statistics about the schools, Carol, is that already, like, now, now, today, in the United Kingdom, white British pupils are now the minority in one

in four schools. And then this was the post on X from Charlie Kirk, who I think is brilliant and I think is doing brilliant things. And there was this video from Radio Genoa saying in London, there are so many Muslims that they are forced to pray even on pavements. This is what an Islamic invasion looks like. And Charlie Kirk replied saying there are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world. Ask yourself why they insist on immigrating to the Christian West. Now Charlie Kirk is someone who in the US now is considered a very influential figure, close to Donald Trump, you know, very much on the mainstream right. But in this country, Karen McGiffen, what he's saying would get you cancelled from society because Charlie Kirk is not saying anything that Tommy Robinson hasn't said for years.

Yeah, yeah, I know and and what happens to him every time he opens his mouth, you know That's just terrifying. I don't know how anyone can can't look at that footage and just Think what what is going on here? but obviously people don't say anything a because they'll be accused of being racist or B, an Islamophobe or whatever buzzword they've got for people like us now who object to all of this. But then you look at the politicians and they're just as bad. They'll just say, oh, let's build some more mosques

so they don't have to pray on the streets or something like that. You can't, I don't know, we'll probably get cancelled for talking about it now. I know you're independent media now, but, you know, any of these things like people can pick up on what you say and then literally destroy your career. Luckily, I haven't got a career to destroy anyone. Well, no, the great thing about the independent media I guess is we have to be brave. But there is a, look there is a motivation, there is a political motivation behind all of this.

So look at this video for example that went viral before the last election in the United Kingdom. Angela Rayner in a mosque, right, without one other woman in that mosque, something that as a self-proclaimed feminist, you would think she would never accept. But there is an absolute necessity for Labour to pander to the sectarian vote because they are facing complete wipeout at the next election. But that's on the left. Then you've got on the apparent right, although I do note that Reform UK don't describe themselves anymore as a right-wing party, but Reform UK saying it's impossible to win an election in the United Kingdom without the Muslim vote.

So this is the problem. You're going to get a lot of pandering to this extremism. And it is extremism that is so not compatible with our way of life. I mean, I think a lot about an interview that I conducted with Saheel Ahmed, who was the de radicalized gay actually, but Muslim terrorist who planned to blow up Canary Wharf, British born. And the stories that he tells Carol about what is being taught to British born Muslims in the mosques of East London is absolutely chilling. Because by the way, it means throwing me as a gay man off the top of buildings. That is what they're being taught. And for you, well, don't leave the home. You know, so then you've got this question about,

okay, well, do we need to ban the burka, which I guess goes against our libertarian instincts, but you can understand it. I don't think that would change a thing. And I don't think anyone would take any notice of it. And in fact, I'm not for that anyway. I don't want to ban anything. I don't like that look particularly,

but I'm not having to wear it. But you do see, you see these early pictures of Iran and the capital of Afghanistan, I forgot what Kabul was it? Kabul, yes. Yeah, you see these women in the 70s, 60s and 70s just wearing western clothes and short skirts and everything else and in a very, very short, relatively short space of time, they look like these pictures here, you know, and women aren't allowed to show any kind of flesh, they're not allowed to, I mean they get stoned to death for the for the for the simplest of things and you just think the hypocrisy of the left when it comes to Islam, the way that it's okay for them but it's not okay for

anybody else, anyone you can be accused of being sexist all the time, but you can't do, you can't say that to a Muslim man. And in actual fact, that's exactly what most of them are. I know it's an inconvenient truth, but it is true. And the whole, you know, the gay side of it all as well. Yes. Well, the left is increasingly becoming homophobic, I've realized, haven't they, Carol, because because they, they support this extreme Islam ideology, which means that we can't exist. But

they also support the extreme trans ideology, which is all about changing the gender of young gay and lesbian kids, basically. So it's like this is the thing, the whole thing is twisted now. In the past, people would say, oh, on the right, the right is homophobic. The right doesn't believe in women's rights. Well, I'm sorry, that has been turned on its head because I would argue the left has proven itself to be homophobic. Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. It's just messed up, isn't it? It's completely messed up. And people buy into that as if, you know, if you're on the left, you're a caring, more inclusive, um, kinder person, but it's the exact opposite of that.

100%. Isn't it? And Carol, did you, did you work with Cyra Carr at Loose Women? I did. Yeah. What did you think of her? Um, well, I quite liked her. Yeah, I liked her.

I didn't have much in common with her, but I did like her. Yeah, I always liked to do it. No, the reason I ask, I don't know if you've seen it, because obviously she was someone who I thought was starting to accept all of this, right? Because she, from, from my memory of it, she very publicly moved away from the Muslim faith because she was so concerned about the issues with women's rights and there was a lot of pushback and I really thought that was a great thing that she did. But she's gone viral last week because she went on the Jeremy Vine show and did this sort of like Rosie O'Donnell thing of like, if reform get into power, I'm going to leave the United

Kingdom. I don't know if you've seen it, but let's just have a look. Okay, let's have a look. ... just on culture wars, Trump has just done that. So let's see. But it doesn't last, it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable. You'll get people moving out of the country. If reform come in on this kind of propaganda, I will leave this country. Where will you go? I'll go to Portugal. I'll go anywhere. It's better than living here Your reaction Carol Wow, really Yeah, I don't know see I don't know what to make of sire and her opinions because they do change all the time

You know, she was I believe she's married to a westerner and I think she her family Not disowned her, but it was very difficult for her, for me, outside of the faith. And so she was always kind of, yeah, but I don't know, she's another one, she just changes, you know, blows hot and cold, changes with the wind all the time.

And to go on the Jeremy Vine show, oh God, I mean, you can't even think right on that show. You have to be left. And it's almost like sometimes I don't want to accuse Sira of playing to the audience, but I think sometimes she does. And there are people that I think she looks up to the same things that she's saying. I mean leave the country if reform reform really really I don't I mean you know it's not really making much sense to me so no I don't know. No exactly I mean it's hardly like for the reasons we've discussed it's

hardly like reform are actually advocating like the scariest policy position. Certainly they're not going anywhere near as far as we would like. I do think it's always hilarious. I mean, come on, sometimes you do have to laugh Carol because you know, the other one who always does this shtick on Jeremy Vine is Yasmin Alibiya Brown. And it's like, she's a woman who moved to this country, right? As an immigrant and got everything from this country. An incredible career as a journalist and columnist that she would never have had, never ever have been able to have. Like she has benefited in every way from this country, yet is constantly describing us as racist. Constantly. It's like surely you are

literally the definition. You are literally the walking talking definition of why the United Kingdom is not a racist country. I can't believe that she wasn't number one in your chart of the world's worst people. I think she's going to have to come in next year to be honest. Because she really is like one of the worst people. I thought I wouldn't even want to cross pass her in the street. Oh I've always and then I used to watch her sometimes on Jeremy Vinyl when it was Matthew Wright I think with a friend of mine who used to do it and I used to watch it and it used to amuse me that she could

be so ridiculous you know and so hypocritical just absolutely oh but now it doesn't it i can't laugh at her anymore it's she is just revolting i'm sorry but she is and i can't i don't ever want to hear her utter another word anywhere don't have her on the show, Dan. Oh, I promise you. I promise you that isn't gonna happen. Thank God for that. The end of Loose Women did woke kill it off. Carol McGiffen, you were,

I mean, you were my favorite Loose Women, but you were there, right, during an era where this was actually an amazing show. And people might laugh at me for saying this, but I don't give a damn. Loose Women was must watch. I would watch every single lunch time during this era. It was certainly not politically correct. It was great fun.

But actually you would genuinely cover the news stories from, I thought, a perspective like what ITV should do, right? Working class, connected to the people. And I absolutely loved it. And we were there, Carol, we were working at woke ITV as I now as I now call it, as we saw Elon Musk's woke mind virus literally infiltrate this show, literally kill it off, literally treat their audience as if they were fools. And I don't know if you have mixed emotions about this action because I'm sure there are still people on Loose Women both in front of the camera and behind the scenes who you respect and who you're friends with. But for me, I think they deserve this, Carol, because as soon as you start producing a show which looks down on your audience, which tries to treat your audience as if they need to go to some type of education camp,

then you don't deserve to be on air. Yeah, I totally agree. I don't know why anybody's surprised that this is happening to them. Because again, I occasionally watch it and mainly for my own amusement, because, you know know some ridiculous topic will come up and I would just like you know my eyes would just roll to the back of my head and I'd be thinking can you imagine the audience sitting there wanting to have you know maybe a laugh now and again or you know

something talk about something that's important to them but the problem has always been and not back in the day when it was brilliant, and up until 2013, it was absolutely brilliant. And that's when, what's his name? Martin Frisell came in and completely wiped all the old panelists out and brought in the new lot. And that's when- So that's what's really interesting, Carol.

That was a key moment of change, wasn't it? 2013. Because up until that point, it had been this brilliant show. A new boss comes in and he's what? He's very favored amongst ITV, isn't he? I guess he's a member of the establishment, the husband of Fiona Phillips.

And what happened? Why why do you think they decided to change the show? It's always the case with TV that if a new boss comes in, they want to put their stamp on it. They don't like the idea of someone who was there before them making it successful. They can do it better. That's what always happens. That's why shows get ruined.

That's why everything has to change now and again, because this new boss wants this person anchoring the show. And they wanted it to be, apparently, I don't know because it wasn't there, I left way before that all kicked off. It's like they wanted it to be more serious, more newsy, so they obviously thought it was, you know, patronising or what, which it wasn't. It was so popular back in those days. And the thing is, it's like it didn't treat the audience as idiots. It knew its audience as well.

Like they just don't know their audience anymore. ITV daytime do not know who their audience is. And they probably don't, never will, because the audience are probably all buggered off. And that's probably why nobody, they can't afford to keep the shows anymore because nobody wants to advertise on them because they've got no audience.

But when you tune in to Loose Women and you see the beginning of what they're going to be talking about and you just think, oh no, not the menopause again. It's like, you know, can you imagine if you're at home and you're a woman sitting watching daytime TV and you are having a bad menopause

and you don't want to put the telly on and have a load of four women talking about everybody's having a bad menopause. Not everyone has a bad menopause. And if you're having a bad menopause, well, you know, you want to be cheered up. You want to forget about it. So let's put daytime TV on and all you've got is,

you know, it's grizzling, sniveling people. Everyone's crying, everyone's upset. It's like it's celebrating victims. That's what it's doing. Loose Women never used to do that. It used to celebrate strong women and they were all strong women. Now it's like, let's get a victim on.

Let's get someone who's something terrible has happened to them. And it's almost every single day. It's like, it's just taken all the fun out of it. And it's no wonder people are switching off. And so they've got to go back onto 30 weeks a year. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did in that format, because most of the time I find it pretty unwatchable.

Well, can I go one step further, Carol, and slightly disagree with you in terms of the bosses at ITV? Because I put it to you that they do know their audience, but they have a disdain for their audience. They look down on the audience and they think, well, actually we can teach these terrible Northern working class people how to think. Normal people, you mean normal people. The normies as they call them, you know, those terrible normies who aren't part of our little

Soho house set, you know, in North London. And because it's not just, I mean, this is not a coincidence. I mean, have you watched, I mean, I can't anymore, but have you watched Coronation Street recently? It's the same thing. Like they are constantly preaching and pushing a message. And so I think they do know the audience, but it's like they believe their job is to change the audience, which is why you see when, for example, something like Black Lives Matter happens in the US, this sort of hysteria at ITV. But they're so typical of fake liberals, isn't it? They're not liberal at all. They want you to think like they think. Yeah, absolutely. And so they do drive these sort of underlying

messages to everybody. So yeah, you probably are right. They probably do know who their audience is, but they hate them. They hate working class people. They hate, you know, talk about going on a jet to, you know, Marbella or somewhere like that with a load of hens, they're disgusted by it. They just think it's so common and shockingly terrible. Like, why would anyone do that? I wouldn't get on the plane. It's just normal people. And when I was working there, when I went back in 2018, I used to deliberately say, like, well actually I'd rather be on that plane with those people than with the people that you would prefer to be on the plane, which is a load of London metropolitan fake liberal

something beginning with T's. Or even C's. Or C's, yeah. Do you know what you're going to do? No, no, I totally do. I totally do. And this is the thing, because they thought that they were above their audience. And I think there was such an arrogance at ITV, Carol. Yeah, preaching, preaching all the time. Yeah, and they thought that these people were just too stupid to change the channel. But what they didn't realise is that there's a media revolution going on. So it's not

necessarily that people change the channel, right, from three to four to five, right, because who wants to go to any of those woke mainstream channels? But what people are doing now is connecting YouTube to their TV, getting a whole new world of independent media as a result. And the ratings, I mean, I looked when this big announcement was made the other day. I mean, Carol, the ratings are down like 50% across the board, right, at ITV daytime. So they have literally lost their audience. There's been a cratering of their audience, but I'm interested in what happened when you went back because this change had gone on, but for some reason they thought, and I don't know why, maybe it was to boost the ratings.

I think the ratings even at that point were really struggling. They thought, okay, well, we need to go back to some of the original magic. And so they got you and I think Denise Welsh returned at the same time in a big, big bang. But what happened when you went back and you'd been pretty outspoken, let's be honest about loose women. I mean, you'd sort of slag them off a little bit hadn't you in the intervening years. So what happened when you went back? Never, never. What happened when you went back and you saw that all of a sudden this was a

woke production? Talk to me, talk to me about it. It didn't strike me back in 2018 as a woke production, but it was different. It was definitely different. I knew what I was going into because it wasn't the same in the sense that there were, the people had all changed and there were too many women. There are still too many women. They've got like 25 women or something on the, that rotate. And you just say, well, you know,

people can never get to know anybody if they're only on, you know, once every three weeks or whatever it is. So it was different, but I didn't actually see it as a woke production. I saw it as kind of victim centric, which used to really piss me off. And it just annoys me because

I used to get... Okay, but at this point, there wasn't massive censorship. Is that right? You could still sort of go in when you first went back and say what you could, because I mean, Trump was president by then, right? Oh yeah. No, I mean, I did say on, on Loose Women back then, oh my god, the uproar, the uproar about Trump. I think all I said was, if I lived in America, I would vote for Trump.

That's what I said. And I mean, there was just disgust. I was surrounded by people who couldn't believe it. And then, you know, you get a few people on Twitter going, you need to sack Karen McGiffin, she supports Trump. And you just think, well, hang on a minute, what's going on? And probably after that,

I was never allowed to mention him again, because that was one of the biggest problems with loose women. They were always pandering to the Twitter arty I used to call them. And a few people on Twitter, you know, keyboard warriors, would be on there just going,

this show's disgusting, do this, suck so and so all the time. And they would always take notice of it all and abide by it all. And it's like... So they would tell you, they would actually say to you, quite specifically, Carol, please just don't go there on Donald Trump or like how would those conversations sort of happen? Because I know about my experience at ITV, which I'll mention, but how did they happen for you? Well, usually it would be like they would bring a topic up and you would think that

they would know exactly what I would be saying or wanting to say. And if it was, say, Trump and I was trying to support him or defend him or, and I remember we did it, you know when Sadiq Khan had that big balloon blow up or something, and I was just, I just said that it's pathetic, absolutely bloody pathetic. I got absolutely slated for that as well. So I think what they did after that was they would change the subject.

They would drop the topics where there might be a chance that I would say something that would get people sending tweets in to say, sack Carol McGiffin or whoever was saying something against the narrative. So it kind of appeared. Yes, so story selection is very important actually. This is often what people don't realise within the mainstream media. Let's just not take the risk of Carol McGiffen saying something about Trump that our viewers might not like. So we just won't talk about Trump at all when she's on. And you saw it happen at GB News too, where it was like,

okay, we're just gonna pretend that Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins do not exist, right? They're not alive, okay? They're just like, they're unpersoned. And now ironically it's me, you know? I don't exist according to GB News. Okay, but then something really big did happen. Carol, the COVID madness, madness, the pandemic, however you want to

put it. And you are incredibly outspoken over that period, you would appear on my talk radio show then and we were really letting loose at a time when you weren't able to do that. But yet Loose Women was, I mean, ITV Daytime were guilty, I believe, of actually the most shocking crimes over that period. They pushed the lockdowns in the most deranged manner. And yet you're having to go into that building, or I don't know if you were doing it on Zoom at that point, but how on earth did you cope with that and how did they deal with you over that period?

Because I'd left by then, I was gone in 2019. Well, to start with, I think they cancelled the entire show, if I remember rightly, because loose women is always been the poor relation in daytime, there's always been priority to this morning. And now GB, not GB, Good Morning Britain, whatever it's called, that's getting the priority now and even Lorraine's being sidelined. So the first thing they did was cancel Loose Women. They didn't cancel this morning, they didn't cancel Lorraine or even all the morning show, just Loose Women. So they cancelled it to start with and then they decided to bring it back but only on Zoom. So all four women were on Zoom. And you know what, to start with,

I was quite surprised at what they would allow me to say about it, because I was, it was a horrendous time and they were pushing everything. They were pushing the lockdowns. I remember just before they went off air and just before the first lockdown, I think it was March the 20th or somewhere around that in 2020, and we did the discussion on the show and I remember them saying,

do you think we should lock down or not? And I just said, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And I was furious about it. I said, it won't change anything. If there is a virus, it's not going to go away just like by locking people in their homes. And this is like imprisoning people in their own homes. You've got to lockdown and you can't go out and you can't travel, you can't do anything. And I was really outraged. And even that caused a massive storm.

And so when it got taken off air, and then when we came back, I was quite surprised that they still kind of allowed me to talk about the lockdowns and how wrong it all was. And then when the, I mean, the worst part was the masks as well. I mean, it was very anti-mask. And they would literally push it.

They would do, they did an item once where they wanted to, they had like a person come in to show them how to express themselves with a mask on, right? I mean, it was just so horrendous, the idea. And I said to the boss at the time there, I said, look, I'm not doing this. I'm in my own home and I'm not putting a mask on, especially not in my own home. I'm not doing it. And so, and I said, but, you know, I'm happy to go on and say why, because I do see it as a form of tyranny and control. And it wasn't necessary. We all know that. I think it was Chris, the medical guy, Chris, what's his name? What's his name? Chris Whitty. You've blocked him out. Chris Whitty. He said right at the beginning of the supposed pandemic, masks won't make us

light as they're dead. I think Fauci said it as well. They all said it. When there were no masks. When there were no masks. When no one was making any money from the masks carol we weren't made but i mean look at this on looseman and and do you do you know they even had to apologize for this because apparently k-adam said something about the positioning of the mask which wasn't the so they went mad okay but so but so how do you then go from being like But so how do you then go from being like, I'm done? Like what was the final straw for you? Well, I mean, even in the COVID time, I said, I'm not doing the show anymore until this is over

because I can't deal with the Zoom and I can't deal with, you know, being told what I can and cannot say about it. Because just to like tell you about the mask, and just to finish the story, I said to them, I'll tell you why I don't want to wear a mask on the show. I said, oh, if you won't let me do that, take me off the show.

They took me off the show. So I wasn't allowed to do the show, even. While they all sat there in masks trying to go, you know, pulling stupid facial expressions. Oh my God, I mean, it was so infuriating. But I mean, at the end, and so I stopped doing it. I didn't do it for about four or five months. And then I went back in a sort of blaze of surprise.

And it was all back to normal, all felt like back to normal because we were in the studio again and you could only back to normal. It all felt like back to normal because we were in the studio again and you could only have three people. But towards the end, when I left, it was, I mean, there were loads of different reasons why. Contractually, they were trying to tell everybody that they were employees, but they're not employees.

That was the main reason I left and also it was Becoming very very stressful for me that show and you know, it was showing it was affecting my health in a way Because it was it was it was always a time when you weren't allowed to say this or you weren't allowed to say that and You had to sit there and pretend that you cared about someone who, you know, I don't know, had an unfortunate episode of something. And it was just exhausting. It wore me out. And at the time, Mark said to me, he said,

look, you know, just leave, just leave. So I kind of did, but yeah, the whole COVID thing was a big, massive test and they failed worse and worse. Yeah, they failed. They failed on every count, just like Piers Morgan failed. Good morning, Brittenfeld woke. Yeah. I mean, I think it was absolutely the bottom line. But look, the vaccines as well. Don't forget about the vaccines, the way they pushed the vaccines and they would all sit there and go, well, you know, we're all Vax, we're all double Vax. And I would go, no, we're not, no, we're not.

And I'm never getting Vax. And it was hard, it was really hard to go to work back then because they would send a test to my house. And so you've got to have this COVID test because you can't come in if you've got COVID. And so I used to run it under the tap and send it off and then, you know, it would come back negative. I remember you wouldn't come on in the early days of GB News because they tried to test everyone at the door and I actually used you as the test case

with management because GB News, crazy, they were always COVID crazy like that and I said, we will not get any guests into the studio if you insist on them doing tests. I had Lord Jonathan Sumption on the first night who was fighting against all of this madness. So they made exceptions to my guests on the show. But that's the thing. No one was immune from this madness. But look, I do want to talk a bit more about what's going on with ITV daytime, because it's not just Loose Women. I mean, this is the whole, all of the shows, including Lorraine, where I was. But just stand by, Carol, because we've got much more on that in just one minute. But first, these days we're living through economic whiplash, soaring prices, vanishing savings and headlines that seem designed to confuse more than inform.

We're told this is all normal, that history's been rewritten for our own good and that embracing these changes is the only path forward, but every outlet tells a different version of reality and the so-called fact check is a just enforcing the approved narrative. Luckily there's a solution. It's ground news, hands down the easiest way to stay informed. It cuts through all the bias and spin so you can actually see what's going on and make up your own mind. I have it on my phone and in my bookmarks online because it's become so essential to my daily life. You can see for yourself at ground.news.outspoken.com. But I want to show you this incredible website and app in action. So let's use the breaking story of Donald Trump agreeing to cut tariffs on UK auto, steel and aluminium as part of a trade deal with Britain,

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balanced perspective on what's happening. Go to ground.news.outspoken or scan the QR code to subscribe today and get 40% off the same vantage plan I use for unlimited access. That's ground.news.outspoken. But now back to the show. Carol McGiffen, it's not just loose women that is a casualty of this complete disaster at ITV, woke ITV as I call it, because actually all of the daytime shows have in some way been axed or scaled down, like half the staff have lost their jobs, and I think, Harold, it is because of woke infiltrating ITV, I think they had absolutely no understanding of the fact that their viewers were changing. And they were continuing to act, Carol, as if they were sort of making TV in the 1990s,

not understanding actually that everyone's getting their news in a different way now from YouTube, from citizen journalists, and they were living in the past. Yeah, I get that. And I suppose it is true. I mean especially with like a lot of young people, they never watch television and the fact that ITV think oh if we get all these like young influencers on everyone's going to start watching daytime TV. I mean that's just ridiculous. Of course they're not going to but I don't think it's just that. They can stand there and say look the reason that we're suffering is because of, you know, online TV. People don't watch TV anymore. They go online for news or for entertainment or anything or streaming services.

Maybe it's just because it's rubbish and they just aren't very good at it anymore. You know, they don't consider that. they don't consider that. They don't consider that. Really great shows. You know, when I went back to Loose Women that time, I thought, you know, this is great. We might be able to make Loose Women great again, but it just proved completely impossible.

And sometimes, you know, if I've ever seen anything on this morning or on YouTube or whatever, it's just saying, you know, this is ridiculous. This is not popular. This is not what people want, but they don't, I go back to my point, they really don't know what people want

and they tell them what they want all the time and they give it to them and then force it down their throats. So that's probably why, I mean, they'd be driving people to go online. The entertainment and streaming services. And, you know, it's like, you know, what do they expect? But you know, no one,

lots of people are going to lose their jobs. And I feel really, really bad for those people behind the scenes who are going to, up to 300 people, apparently. But I bet you anything, no one at the top is going to get axed because of this disaster. And it is a disaster, and it is like that headline says, it is a bloodbath.

And the women are apparently absolutely raging about it. I haven't spoken to any of them about it, but it's like, well yeah, of course, because they're like, oh we were kept in the dark, we weren't told of anything. They're never told of anything, you know, they never know what's going on and loose women is the poor relations, so that's the one that's suffering the most. Lorraine Kelly, she's on a contract, so she'll still be getting paid the entire amount

for whether she does half an hour for 10 weeks a year or for 50 weeks a year. So you just, I do feel for them, but I don't buy into this kind of, oh no, all their worlds have fallen apart because this show's ended. It's like, hang on a minute, what did you expect? Did you think it was just going to go minute what did you expect did you think it

was just going to go on forever and especially in the way it is it's you know totally when you have lost half your audience like 50 percent of your audience have said goodbye like if you do not understand that say crisis then you are living in cloud cookie land. And I think so much of it, Carol, is that an agenda was being pushed. I really do. I mean, with me, it obviously was connected to Meghan Markle because ITV made this really weird decision. Do you remember with Piers Morgan and everything?

And I know you've got loads of issues with Piers Morgan, and so do I. But I think he was definitely right on Meghan Markle okay like he came on air after that Oprah interview that appalling Oprah interview where she had lied about so many things and he said I do not believe her claims that she was suicidal in the palace well he was completely right okay he was completely right but ITV actually backed Meghan Markle. Like Meghan Markle emailed the chief executive, who's this very woke woman called Carolyn McCall, who used to run the Guardian, Tom Bradby, who's like really good friends with Harry and Meghan got involved and Piers left.

Now I'd already left by that point because I was sat down and told, you cannot be rude about Meghan Markle. And I just thought, to hell with that. Because I'm not being rude about Meghan Markle. I am reporting true stories. Like it's not even about my view. I was at that point on that show, I was a journalist reporting about her terrible behavior. But I mean how

bizarre and how out of touch that they made a decision to back Meg and Markal over Piers Morgan because whatever you think of Piers Morgan he had taken Good Morning Britain to those record ratings. Oh yeah, yeah, you've got to give him credit where credit's due. He did. He kind of saved that show. I can't remember who the boss was who thought that that would work. And it did work. But yeah, you're right. To back mega market.

Why? What was behind that? I mean, who was paying who? Somebody... There had to be a higher power dictating that decision. Well, doesn't it just show how closely they work with each other? Like, and how often is this going on, Carol, where we don't know about it? I think that's what's so concerning. Like in this case, it came to the fore. Then, oh my goodness, I've got to, I've got to ask you about this one too,

because this is the one that riles me. And again, I know it's a controversial topic, but I don't shy away from it. So Loose Women started getting criticism for all white panels, right? So there's four of you on the panel, and sometimes they would all be white. And interestingly, it was actually the Daily Mail that made some huge issue about that. Now I would argue, well, sometimes in a country that is majority white, you're going to have the odd all white panel. But no, no, no. ITV decided that this was a real issue and so tried to move away from having all white panels. But then of course, they did that thing, Carol, which happens throughout the industry. And I describe it as woke over correction, which

is that they started on a regular basis having an all black panel, not an Asian panel, like an all black panel. Now remember the black population Carol, I think it makes up about 8% of the United Kingdom. So I simply posted on X how woke ITV does diversity, not from any other aspect, apart from saying that there is a hypocrisy. There is a hypocrisy to say an all white panel is bad, yet we are going to celebrate an all black panel. Or Charlene White, and did you ever work with her? I did.

What's she like? Yeah, she's nice. Be honest. Oh, well, the thing is she was very nice to me, you know, and I was nice to her. See, the thing is I don't dislike any of those women. No, I know, and you don't want to slug them off. I get that.

No, I know a hell of a lot of them that I don't have a single thing in common with and not just the not just beliefs but you know a lot of things um but you just you get on with it don't you? Okay well I think I think you can respond to this though because I believe what she did was disgusting given you saw what I just posted right so I literally said how woke ITV does diversity. That is making a political point. Okay, it is certainly not at all a racist attack. Anyone who knows me knows I'm like the least racist person in the world. Charlene White posts business is a very lonely color, Dan. Black women face some of the worst abuse on social media. That is a fact. So this man

with a following of almost half a million, well, it was well over half a million, but there you go. She's not one who gets her facts right very often, decides to target for black women for having successful careers. Riling the races for clout and cliques really is the weirdest pastime. Well, how on earth was I doing any of that? Right? I was pointing out, Carol, a political decision that ITV had made. I mean, I love Brenda Edwards, right? I think she's a wonderful woman. I've known her for years and years and years since she was on X Factor. But you can understand that if an all-white panel is unacceptable, then why in a country where you've got less than 10% of the population that is black

are you having an all-black panel? And I actually spoke to some people behind the scenes at Loose Women at the time who told me that they were really angry too, because even amongst that group of people, Carol, there's no diversity. Like they are all a particular type of black woman who thinks in the same way, who lives in the same place.

So it's not real diversity. And that was the point I was making. And I think to throw around terms like racist and targeting successful black women is actually, like, I think it's sick. I think what Charlene White did was sick. Yeah, well, she kind of had a go at me when I came on your show, when I left Loose Women.

Do you remember when we were talking about how it was woke and she criticised me for saying I didn't know what the meaning of woke was and how could I possibly question the fact that minority groups would be given opportunities when they're given opportunities, they always have been given opportunities. But anyway, you know, aside from that, that was a bit, I just ignored it. But yeah, it's, it's, Lou's family used to get a lot of stick because it wasn't diverse enough, right? So there weren't enough black or minority women on the panels. And they were majority white. But the thing is no one ever mentioned that until people started complaining because there were no,

and they employed a few black women to do the shows, but they kind of didn't work out. They got, now, yeah, they've got four successful black women and they put them on together and they're allowed to talk about all being black and celebrating the fact that this is an historic moment because four black women are presenting the show for the first time.

And, you know, four white women wouldn't go on there and go, oh, isn't this great? We're all white. I mean, it's just so ludicrous and ridiculous. And then to cap it all, that show, the first all-black female show won the BAFTA. And it was like, oh, it was like nothing that happened on Loose Women before that ever existed.

This is why we've won the BAFTA and took all the credit for it. You know, it really was kind of galling for the other women to sort of stand by and just go well okay well we didn't win the BAFTA then you won the BAFTA which was a you know very sort of strange and difficult time but um no as you say there's like you know rules for them and rules for us it's it's you know no one was allowed to say anything at the time. So, I don't know. I mean, it is annoying and it is annoying that you get labeled racist for even mentioning the

fact that it's like, you know, you go in the comments sometimes on Twitter when they do things like this and then there's obviously bots or, I don't know, if they still have the 77th Brigade, they just start trolling these people and say, you're racist, you're racist, you say this, you say that. And it's like the label that you get, you get given because you're just pointing something out,

a visible truth. And it's very frustrating, especially in television. I say, I don't know if you've even noticed like certain advert, I mean, the adverts now, I mean, they're just overrepresented if you like. Totally. I thought diversity, I always signed up to the fact that diversity meant you accurately represent the population of the United Kingdom. Well, if you watch woke ITV, you would think that the majority of the population was not white, that one in four people were trans, that one in three people had a disability.

It's ludicrous. It's gone too far. And I think calling that out doesn't mean you're against diversity. I just want like an accurate reflection of the country. But Carol, oh my goodness, it has been so good that you've come out of your semi retirement. But of course, of course, you're not entirely off the scene because you know I'm a huge fan of your podcast. What's your problem, which actually became a favorite of mine during lockdown, I'd always tell you wouldn't I? I'd listen to it when I was going to sleep. And

that's hilarious. And you still are writing for Best Magazine too, right? Yeah, I'm still writing for Best Magazine every week. And the podcast, I've got to say, is doing really well now. And it's been going for, can you believe this, five and a half years. And we've done- Oh, that's terrifying.

Yeah, isn't it? I know. And we still do it twice a week and it's really not a problem. And I've been doing that column in best now since 2017. So these are long standing jobs, which I'm very, very precious about. So yeah, so I'm not completely retired. And don't forget, Dan, that I'm still writing

my second book. The book! I mean, this book has had the longest gestation period in history. It's gonna be bloody good now. I know, but I live in the South of France and there's so much rosé wine to drink. It's gonna be bloody good now. I know, but I live in the south of France and there's so much rosé wine to drink. It's like, you know, it's impossible. But no, I am actually working on it. Okay, and will outspoken become part of your portfolio now after your first go? Well, yeah, I would love that actually, Dan. Yeah, I hope so. I'm going to hold you to that. She's committed. She's committed. No, McGiff, you know I love you. You're one of my favourite people.

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure and we will speak very soon. You're very welcome, Dan. It's been lovely to talk to you for so long. Brilliant, Karen McGiffen. Of course, the podcast, Problem with Nic Abbott, that's available on The Global Player and her weekly column in Best Magazine. Now there is no uncancelled after show today but it does return on Tuesday so do sign up, get prepared for them www.outspoken.live.com such an important community for me that's

where we broadcasted it is a free platform. It protects me from big tech cancellation. But we are back tomorrow. 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. We've got a biggie tomorrow, a biggie, an interview. You have all been asking for Mr. Mark Stein speaks out for the first time on his exit from GB News. So do hit subscribe right now. If you're watching on YouTube or Rumble, turn on the notification bell and most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you.