Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE “DEPORTER IN CHIEF” CLAIM AS RUPERT LOWE IN SHOCK LAUNCH OF REFORM UK RIVAL

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

VERSO - https://morning.ver.so/outspoken - Use code OUTSPOKEN to save 15% on your first order. It’s election week! Reform UK and Nigel Farage are set to smash the establishment once again - it could be the beginning of the end for the uniparty. But can Zia Yusuf’s party really be trusted on mass deportations? Rupert Lowe says hell no and has today called on his supporters to avoid voting for Reform in preparation of the launch of a new party. Dan reveals his view and is then joined by his Superstar Panel: Peter McIlvenna of Hearts of Oak and Emma Kenny, TV psych therapist, true crime YouTube sensation and the woman behind The Serial Killer Next Door tour. PLUS: Slippery Starmer makes his unhappy wife Lady Victoria go public in a cringe video at the Pope’s funeral as their marriage is rocked by the publication of new rumours about his love life in a bombshell book. AND: The Daily Telegraph joins the MSM witch hunt against Outspoken. They’re panicking folks. I’m going to respond in detail for the first time to their crazed hit piece. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Meghan Markle reveals Princess Lilibet’s voice and red hair on social media for the first time. But is all as it seems? We’ll reveal the truth as we team up with the Royal News Network. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And goodness me, it's election week. This is the biggie. Reform UK and Nigel Farage set to smash the establishment once again. I mean, it could be the beginning of the end for the Uniparty. And we all want that, right? But, and there is a but, because you know I'm not a propagandist or a shill, can Zia Yusuf's party really be trusted on mass deportations? Well, Rupert Lowe says hell no. And today he has called on his supporters to avoid voting for reform in preparation of the launch of what looks like a new party. So we're going to go at all of this today with my brilliant superstar panel. Peter McElvenna of Hearts of Oak is back. And I'm so excited about this, making her outspoken debut. Emma Kenny, TV psych therapist, true crime YouTube sensation, and the woman behind the serial killer Next Door Tour.

So I'm really looking forward to having Emma today alongside Peter. On the show, Slippery Starmer makes his unhappy wife, Lady Victoria, go public in a cringe video at the Pope's funeral as their marriage is rocked by the publication of new rumours about his love life in a bombshell book. The Daily Telegraph joins the MSM witch hunt against Outspoken. Did you see this at the weekend? They're really panicking, folks. So I'm going to respond in detail for the first time to their hit piece. And the Jill Dando BBC pedo ring mystery grows. Then in the uncancelled after show on Substack, brand new Meghan Markle interview. She has broken down in tears in the past couple of hours, but is all as it seems. We're going to reveal the truth as we team up with the Royal News Network for that. And you can sign up to watch right now www.outspoken.live.

It's also, of course, the first Greatest Britain and Union Jackass of the week. You choose the nominees. You choose the winners. You can vote right now in our live chat on YouTube to do so. But let me take you through them. James Warrington. You may not have heard of him, but he is the media and telecoms editor at the Daily Telegraph. He was nominated by Darren Donaldson. And it was because of this hit piece in the Daily Telegraph at the weekend against Outspoken and Lawrence Fox and Calvin Robinson and Trigonometry and the Lotus Eaters, a whole load of us on the so-called alt-right. Ed Davey has been nominated by My Thought Tim 1. And it is because he has to be the world's dumbest politicians. Apparently his latest photo op was at a chocolate making workshop. And nominated by Real McCast,

the youth demand activists. These were the powder throwing freaks at the London marathon yesterday who disrupted the people running and raising money for charity. And you know how much these people annoy me. So get voting, get your comments in. I'll read out the best and the worst at the end of the show. So do stay with us. But now, let's go. So it is now a week that we'll see the tectonic plates in British politics shift. The reform quake is coming.

But the battle to win the support of the British right, well, I think it's actually only just begun. So as you'd expect, expectation management now in full force. Reform UK's favourite journalist Isabel Oakeshott posted on X, Runcorn and Halsby reality check, it's one of Labour's safest seats. Yes, Reform is on a roll, but Labour is working very hard, all to play for. But for Nigel Farage, there would be no shame in not winning this one. And my party sources tell me there is concern that the Rupert Lowe situation has softened Reform's base support. And there's particular

worry over this moment. I don't know if you saw it over the weekend. It was from the Daily Telegraph, but it went viral. Watch. I'm originally preparing to vote for reform. I am now unsure. I was so hopeful. And quite honestly, I think the trust has been broken there with that internal squabble with Richard Lowe. People find it really hard to trust anyone at the moment, whether that is government, whether that is any politician, whether that's media. You know, unfortunately, there are just too many lies that have been told. What's an example of a lie that you feel politicians have covered up? How long have you got? Just one, just one

bit of reason. Okay, let's talk about the rape gangs. Why is that not being investigated? We were talking to a woman earlier who was saying that she really liked what Reform was saying until the fiasco with Rupert Lowe. A man who has raised £600,000 more for an inquiry into grooming gangs, why is there not space for somebody in reform who has put the words into action? Look, I've been brought in as the candidate here in this by-election. I'm interested in these local issues. What's gone before me is I haven't been party to that. So all I'm interested in is focusing on this election in terms of what goes on centrally then. That's not of interest to me at the moment. And so you can see the Rupert Lowe situation, the fact that he was reported to the police has hung over this entire local election campaign.

And Nigel, I think quite rightly and probably as a result of the pressure, has toughened up his policy. So he posted over the weekend, Reform UK's policy team has drafted a comprehensive strategy for the deportation of illegal migrants. We will operate a zero tolerance policy for those that enter our country illegally. So he's sort of wanting to describe himself as the deporter in chief. But Rupert Lowe, well, he lingers over the party, I would say, like its conscience, like its moral compass, no matter how much that might infuriate its chairman, Zia Youssef. So when Reform then posted, as Prime Minister, Nigel Farage will ensure the deportation of all illegal immigrants in this country within five years, it's time for action, not words,

Rupert replied, let's listen to the man himself. Then quoting Fudge saying, we simply can't do it. It's impossible to do. He then went further, adding, it's again, wordplay. You'll only deport, quote, those that enter. Weak, weak, weak. The British people want every single illegal migrant already here deported, not just those arriving. Stop being scared of being called a racist and finally call for mass deportations. Now, that actually resulted in reform blocking Rupert. I mean, who could have ever imagined this? He was their star MP just a few weeks ago. But they blocked him on social media, resulting in another takedown where he said both Farage and Reform have been

deleting my comments on their pages, so I'll post it here for all to see before they censor it again. You can decide for yourselves if it is a reasonable criticism to make. Now, I'm actually on a different page to Rupert and Ben Habib over the voting this week. You know, it's a really personal call. I completely understand that. Although I agree with Katie Hopkins that Reform UK at this week's election is the best way to send a message. It's too early. That's the point. It's too early. But to be very clear, by the way, to all of the people who think I'm somehow turning on reform, if I was voting in the local elections next week, I would be voting for Reform UK. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be scrutiny on where this party is going,

because we don't want Tory 2.0. Didn't work first time around. And so we need something better in order to save the country. I do find it hilarious, by the way, that Reform UK and its chairman, Zia Youssef, are treating me as the enemy, given that's what I've been telling you. Anyway, this is why Ben Habib thinks that position is wrong. Nigel Farage made his reputation on an anti-immigration platform. He's been banging the anti-immigration drum for decades. Yet, over the last few months, he has come out repeatedly against the deportation of all people who've entered this country illegally. He has said on the record, repeatedly, that that is

too difficult a task to be undertaken. He is prepared, notwithstanding his previous anti-immigration rhetoric, to allow 1.2 million people to stay in the United Kingdom. 1.2 million people, as he would have said in the past, about whom we know nothing, who have already proven their criminality because they've entered the country illegally, who could pose a significant threat to civil society in this country. He would not deport them.

Oh, he's umming and ahhing a bit about that now, but only because of the pressure brought to bear by Rupert Lowe and myself. But it is unquestionable that Nigel and Reform remain in control on the right at the moment. They are dominating the conversation, even with the Tories' next leader, Robert Jenrick, who is so keen for positive PR. And by the way, I'm not slamming this. I love his energy. But you've got to be particularly keen in this case, because he actually yesterday ran the London Marathon, then immediately hot stepped to the Times Radio studio. I want the Casota Party to be in office. I obviously want to be able to affect change.

But I don't think that the route to that is by getting in some kind of pact or coalition with the reform party what i want to do is to create a coalition of voters and to make the party a party which everyone in this country who is a natural conservative can once again have confidence in as i say i think that's that's a big task, because when I speak to those people, they are very frustrated, and some of them are very angry with the Tory party right now, because we did let them down.

We didn't keep our promises. What we've got to do in the months ahead is demonstrate that we've learnt our lessons and that we have serious answers to those challenges, and that was what will differentiate ourselves ultimately from Reform and Nigel Farage. I mean, huge respect to him. I actually ran the London Marathon in 2011. Yes, I did. Can you believe that? And trust me, I couldn't speak for about 24 hours afterwards. But it's interesting because the current Tory leader, Kemi Beinanoch,

also senses weakness over Rupert Lowe. Watch. I've been very clear that Nigel Farage wants to destroy the Conservative Party. He said so himself. This is one of the greatest institutions of our country, I firmly believe. He is not someone that I'm interested in doing business with. And he's already lost 20 percent of his party. Rupert Lowe himself, someone who came in wanting to make Farage prime minister, says that man must not be prime minister. So let the people who've worked with him speak for him. Okay, so what about the man himself? Well, Rupert Lowe has today revealed he is very much planning a full-throttled assault on Farage and Reform UK by the time of the next general election. He wrote on X, and let me take

you through this because it's pretty full-on stuff. He says, I have received countless questions on my recommendation for who to vote for this Thursday, and I have thought long and hard about the answer. Here is my honest assessment. For months, I pushed reform to propose radical but credible policies, to detail it with substance and costumes, write it down, produce policy documents, I was mocked and ignored. I hoped that there might be some form of plan for these elections, maybe a well-thought-out policy or two, to even go as far to write a proposal, not thrown together on a flashy social media graphic, but in properly constructed sentences on an actual document, none came.

Nothing. Reform even blocked me on their social media challenges for quoting Farage's own words on this. A party of supposed free speech should be willing to take some mild criticism from an independent MP, surely. I tabled a motion in the Commons calling exactly for the mass deportation of all illegal migrants. Has Farage signed it? Tice? Anderson? No, none. More conservative MPs have supported my mass deportation motion than Reform. Please listen to me when I say this. Reform's leadership does not share the opinions of the membership on so much of such importance. Perhaps most concerningly, Farage alarmingly states if we politically alienate the whole of Islam we will lose. Think very carefully about what he is saying here. My view? There needs to be an honest national debate around the influence of Islam and how it is

shaping our way of life against the wishes of the vast majority. Farage does not share that opinion and pushes the same crippling cowardice that has allowed our civilisation to be held hostage out of fear of offending one religion, Islam. British values need to be robustly and courageously defended, even if that results in unpleasant insults of racism and Islamophobia from establishment that will always hate us. Reform is not the answer. This is not a general election. Vote for a candidate who cares about your local community and has considered presented credible policies on how they can actually benefit your area. I wouldn't worry too much about the colour of the

rosette this time. Do what is right for your community. It's not letting Labour in. Labour is in and will be firmly in until 2029. Nothing that happens this week will change that. At the time of these elections, I will be in an independent MP. It will not remain that way forever. There will be an alternative to reform. I promise you that. So that is the Rupert Lowe bombshell today. But you know, I'm an independent journalist. I'm not a shill. I'm not an activist for any party or politician. So I do want to show you the other side. And so today, I'm going to read you a new article or part of a new article from the former UKIPR under Farage, Patrick Flynn, a respected journalist who knows what it means, by the way, to fall out with Nigel Farage,

and he has come out completely against Rupert Lowe today. He said Lowe has, if anything, handled his position even worse. Elon Musk's praise and number of likes on X clearly convinced him that he could do a better job as party leader than could Nigel Farage. In fact, I was a fan of his hard-as-nails messaging on immigration policy and law and order, but for him to be waging a legal war against his party and its leader in the week of the local elections is utterly crackers. If Habib, Lowe and others on the right of reform had just played a long game, they would be on course to acquire dozens of similarly-minded MPs in 2029 and have the possibility of real political traction themselves. Instead, as reform gets more people elected to senior jobs, their profile and importance will plummet very fast. The moral of the story is that it's a long

game and nobody should believe their own propaganda. Okay, to analyse now, let me bring in today's superstar panel. And it is wonderful to have from the Hearts of Oak podcast, the brilliant Peter McElvenna, and making her outspoken debut, the host of Emma Kenny True Crime on YouTube, the wonderful Emma Kenny. So Peter, let me kick off with you. I just want to show you the type of response I'm getting around this on X at the moment. I'm finding it incredibly frustrating. So in response to that Rupert Lowe post today, a reform supporter called Paul copied in alongside Rupert Lowe, Ben Habib and Howard Cox, myself and Maya Tusi, both independent journalists. And he named all of us and their reform-hating lackeys,

genuinely, this is their words, prioritize the nation over their own egos is utterly delusional. Their toxic schemes and self-serving agendas are laid bare hourly on X, spewing divisive venom that mocks any pretense of patriotism. Wake up. Their shameless hypocrisy is a betrayal of everything this country stands for. Now, Rupert Lowe responded saying, if you're going to exalt us, at least use your own words, not some AI generated bile. But the issue that I have, Peter, is that I'm a journalist. I'm an independent journalist. How on earth can the solution be for me to simply shill for reform? I have literally said that I agree with Katie Hopkins that this election, it is probably the best thing to vote for reform and send a real message to the

establishment. But isn't it odd that reform itself seems to only want propaganda? They're not prepared to have any form of critical coverage. And I think it's actually critical coverage of Farage's terrible mass deportation stance, which has seen a total U-turn in the past week, which is something that should be celebrated. You, as an independent journalist, mar to see Lotus Eaters. I know Lotus Eaters also have an issue because a number of reform candidates were removed because of hope not hate, basically, working with them and removing people who said anything which was strongly pro-British, strongly concerned of mass immigration and anyone who spoke common sense.

So it doesn't make sense for reform to attack journalists. But there are a couple of points I want to come back because there are a number of big points that kind of this is pinned on. One, I don't get what Katie says. I will disagree with you, Dan, from the outset. I can't vote for a monster. There's no way I can... You wouldn't be voting for reform if you could vote

in the local elections? No, I wouldn't. And I will take what Rupert has suggested and look at all the candidates and that's what I generally try and do but I've always thought well, reform seemed to be a good candidate here, a good party or UKIP back in the days,

or before that, the Conservative Party, and traditionally that's where I have been. But yet, even through gritted teeth, I cannot vote for a monster. And if Kitty thinks Nigel is a monster, why would you want a monster actually in number 10 just because he's slightly less of a monster? This is what she said, Peter.

Just in case people missed it, let me just play it before you come back in. I'm a minister for deportation and will roll back on net zero and all of that nonsense. It's good to see this shift and well done to Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib who have pushed for this. You don't have to like the guy,

you just have to choose your monsters. And right now, Nigel is the right monster to choose. She's wrong. I can't. If Nigel's a monster, you can't vote for him. And Nigel has only moved his position because of pressure from others. Nigel doesn't believe in this immigration,

mass deportation, basically, of those who shouldn't be here. He refused to align himself with AFD in Germany or FPO in Austria or the other parties in the right. So he's tried to distance himself saying, I'm soft and cuddly in the middle. Come out and say what you think. And the other issues are where Kemi Bednok says

Nigel wants to destroy the Tories. They've destroyed themselves. Nigel just wants to sweep them up. They've already destroyed themselves 14 years of non-conservative policy. And you mentioned, Dan, that Rupert was the star only weeks before and now they've removed him. That was the problem, that he was a star figure. He was speaking common sense. And with Nigel, no one else can be the star but Nigel. That, I think, goes to the root of the problem in reform. And of course, Rupert on his post said, this isn't about letting in Labour, they're already in.

That's absolutely true. And none of this will change anything. And even if reform do well in the local elections, it doesn't wear four years out from a general election. It won't really change anything. And I would love, actually, if the Conservatives wanted to do anything, then come out and say, we're going to sort out the grooming gang issue. This has been going on for 50 years.

These girls, if they want to get compensation from their perpetrators, they need to raise the money and go through the legal system once again, which I've been involved in. And if Rupert said, if reform will not do it, if Nigel will not do it, I will. And that's what I want in a politician. That's what I want, someone who does what they say they will do. And I don't see that in Nigel. I think he will do what he feels pressure to do, but not necessarily what he believes is right to do. And I think Rupert is a conviction politician, and I think Nigel is a consensus politician.

I mean, Emma Kenny, you could have a field day sitting down with Nigel Farage and Rupert Lowe, couldn't you? Because it's so frustrating. It's like they could have been such a powerful team, and ego's gone in the way. Yeah. I mean, one of the things I think that was brilliant just said then is the idea of one being a consensus and one kind of being a true advocate for the ordinary person. And one of the things you also talked about was the fact that people don't like being criticised in politics.

And it kind of blows your mind because one of the things that you need to be willing to have thrown at you is criticism. Not just to have that thrown at you, to hear it and then to process it and at times to act on it. It feels like certainly in the last three decades, without a shadow of a doubt, all those in politics believe that they are somehow without any criticism and what they think and what they do is acceptable and for a greater good even when we can see it's absolutely not the case and this is a perfect demonstration of that you've got individuals who genuinely could have come together and done something really transformative just for the ordinary person because I think that particularly Rupert Lowe he speaks about the common individual he sees the girls I used to work with 20 years ago who were affected by the grooming gangs who I'm still in contact with these days

and the reality is their lives were destroyed I mean we have people in the media who are able to formulate sentences and are able to explain the journey they went on and thank god we do those young women who've grown up telling that story and the parents of them doing so I happen to work with people who don't have that capacity anymore because of what happened to them so I agree completely with the fact that what we have right now is ego-based and it's the same when you look at Keir Starmer ego-based it's not about politics it's about probably promises for the next 10 years of his life after he leaves the Labour Party after doing whatever he was told to do you have people like Rupert Lowe saying, no, it's time for a change. It's time to alter the course of our history and to actually do things

that are right and good and proper. So when it comes down to local elections, I can completely understand Katie's point of view, which is teach them a lesson. But if that's not actually going to do anything but reinforce that you can say one thing and do another, to some degree, that isn't a helpful reality. I would like actually for them all to be taught a lesson. And I think it's coming. And I'm patient because I do believe the biggest principle that people have missed are the millions and millions of people from all different ethnicities, from all different belief systems who have a common belief, which is that Britain should be safe, Britain should be essentially for the British. And yes, we should be compassionate, but we should also be very clear, the safety of our fellow man, the wealth of our fellow man, the future of our fellow man here is the priority. Oh, big time, big time. And I have to be honest with you, I'm quite glad that I don't have to vote.

There are no local elections where I live because I would struggle for the reasons that you've both suggested. I want to ask you now about trust. So actually, Emma, I'll kick off with you. But we've seen this phenomenal U-turn on mass deportations from Nigel Farage, from going from saying this... You're confusing politically. You're going left and right, tacking this way and that, aren't you? No, no, there is... It is our intention, ultimately,

that if you've come illegally, you should not be able to stay. It's a political impossibility to deport hundreds of thousands of people. We simply can't do it. And then, in this speech last week, all of a sudden, we could do it.

It is our intention, ultimately, that if you've come illegally, you should not be able to stay. You should not be able to make a spurious claim that somehow your right to a family life means you should stay here. We will, in three to four weeks' time,

announce more detailed policy on how we will actually carry out those deportations. We'll do that after the election, but I make the intention very, very clear. So, Emma, do you trust Farage, given he previously said it was impossible? Anybody in politics at the moment, I don't trust. Yeah, well, that's sensible.

I've always said that politicians go where the wind blows. Where is the populist perception? Or at least what does X say the populist perception is, which is always incorrect, by the way, but nonetheless, people seem to really buy into the fact that it must be the truth because it's there. No, they go where the wind blows. And, and you know i don't have any inclination or desire to be in politics but i know what i would do if i needed to deal with deportations it's called

deportations it's called working with the french and being much more forceful it's called not using that particular crossing as a place where smugglers are making millions of pounds at a detriment to people who are dying on those seas and then at a detriment to the common person in the UK like myself paying taxes to actually accommodate these individuals which also causes massive division and also a real hatred towards communities which is deeply problematic and divisive in our community so absolutely do I trust politicians? Not at all, because you cannot. And historically, evidentially, there is reality based thoughts and feelings around why that's the case. And Peter, I imagine you say absolutely not. You can't trust Farage on deportations, given he was saying they were impossible a few months ago no because he he changes his opinion and i don't understand because this seems to be a massive unforced error nigel could have come out and actually said no we're

going to deport those who are here illegally that would fit with the concerns of the public who see mass immigration changing their societies and multiculturalism destroying the uk so to me it would be a vote winner that's what really confuses me on this, that Nigel could have spoken truth, connects with voters, and that would have done brilliantly. And that would have pulled the rug massively out of the Conservative Party. And yet he's flip-flopped back and forward. And I simply do not understand this. And I know from someone, I live in London, but I wasn't born in London, born in Northern Ireland. Now, if I came, I could have maybe found a little Irish community to be around and just stayed in that local area.

But I wanted to experience, actually, well, I did want to speak to English people. I don't get much of that in London. But I think people don't want that ghetto-wide society that we are seeing of many cultures. And I know Rupert has talked about concerns of Islam and that clash that we have between the freedoms that has and the freedoms we have in the West. But Nigel, again, is afraid of engaging that. And he seems to be afraid of pulling the nettles out, of engaging with the difficult topics,

despite the fact that it will be a vote winner. So I, again, it makes you wonder why Nigel didn't walk away after he achieved Brexit in some shape or form. And I do give him a huge credit for that because he was a towering figure and over 25 years he changed the conversation. But he is desperate not only to get into Parliament, he's achieved that. Although if he can't keep five MPs together, I don't know how he's going to keep a party of three four hundred together could you imagine 400 people under Nigel you'd lose one a week but he is desperate for that position of number 10 and I think if he got in he wouldn't know what to do with it similar to Boris Boris got in he didn't know what to do with that position I think

Nigel would be exactly the same he would have focus groups telling him because you need to have giants with you and rupert lowe is a giant and he could have been so incredible but look it's very interesting lots of you have been asking for this katie hopkins will be here live on outspoken tomorrow so she can explain why peter is wrong and she is right in terms of holding your nose and voting for reform uk this week breaking right now lady victoria stammer has been forced to make a public appearance at the pope's funeral as the Prime Minister's past love life is revealed, causing even more strain on their marriage. However, he will be delighted to know that it looks like Lord Ashcroft is going to keep his big secret about the real shape of his hidden family covered up, for now at least. So as you know, I've been talking about the story,

the mainstream media haven't, and I have to be very clear, I have huge compassion for Lady Victoria Starmer and what she is going through. But at the same time, I do believe this is an issue in the public interest, especially given that you'll remember, number 10 initially briefed that Lady Victoria Starmer was not going to attend the Pope's funeral and then after the increasing pressure about her disappearance as the strains in the couple's marriage grows there was a U-turn announced on GB News of all places. Family and Keirarmer and his wife Lady Starmer are also going to be going. There were rumours that Lady Starmer was not going to be

coming but that's been confirmed that she will. So there you go. And boy she was. Starmer even decided to pull her out for an awkward promo video and of course there was a reason that that video was released over the weekend because on sunday the mail on sunday began to serialize lord ashcroft's new book on starmer, red flag, going with this headline about his ex-girlfriend being a pro-trans judge. The story said that Sir Keir Starmer had a long-term romance with a judge who has been

accused of being influenced by trans activists. They say that it was before he met his wife Victoria, but that he had spent years in a relationship with Maya Sikand, KC, a high-flying barrister who now works as a part-time Crown Court judge. The book quoted a contemporary of Starmer of saying it was an open secret that Maya was having a relationship with him. I remember sitting in a restaurant with some barrister colleagues when Keir sent her a text message and she passed her phone around and showed it to some of those present. She was smitten. The book also reports one of Starmer's acquaintances is saying that Keir and Ms. Sikand saw each other for years and both later contributed to a legal textbook. Another source is quoted as saying Maya still likes him a lot, even though his treatment of her

left a lot to be desired. Now, let me bring in my superstar panel now, Peter McElvenna and Emma Kenny. Emma, where do you stand on this one? Because I appreciate it's difficult. Lady Victoria Starmer has not been elected to any office, and clearly Starmer is trying to protect the privacy of both her and his two children. However, my argument, and I know this is not necessarily a particular popular one in a lot of circles, is that he's also prepared to use them as political props where necessary.

For example, the Lord Ali scandal. For example, when he's trying to push the anti-white propaganda of the Netflix series Adolescence. And do we not have a right to know that there are serious concerns in the marriage of our leader? I mean, I think that whilst I would like to afford innocent parties such as family members and children, I would like to afford them their privacy. The reality is the

precedent was sent. It was sent a long time ago by, for example, the press with Boris Johnson and Karen. You can't help but note that they were literally constantly attacked in the press. And it was a free for all when it came down to criticism and condemnation. So if you are in the public eye, because it is 15 minute news now, that's the reality. You know, it's not just about the political stance. It's not just about these leaders who have families who use them as political props when it's convenient and then want to withdraw that. It's about the fact that we have social media, we have online platforms, we have YouTubers, we have people on podcasts. And because of that, there is this absolute thirst

for information so that means that things that would have been disinteresting for many people years ago are now very interesting and I think that as a society we see an individual more than just the self we see them as part of a global whole and the family and the representation within what they stand in that family is something that's going to be important so I feel really sorry for her I feel sorry for his kids because they are pawns in this game, but you can't have it both ways. And unfortunately, it feels time and time again that that's the expectation. Well, I can use them in this context, but when I actually have criticism here, I'm going to say I deserve my privacy. Well, I don't have any privacy. If

the press wants to be in my private life, for example, they've happily done that before. They've done it with you. They do it with anybody in the media, because like I said, they just want that feed of constant news. So you're never going to be able to get away from that now. Totally. And we are not political figures. And you're right. I find it extraordinary that our private life had more scrutiny than the Prime Minister. And Peter, we know this is because the Prime Minister is working in lockstep with these guys in the mainstream media. You'll remember that he used to be pictured on board Blair Force One, as I call it, the Prime Ministerial Navy plane, Air Force plane, sorry, what am I talking about, where he would be surrounded by all of the major journalists, you know, Chris Mason from the BBC, Robert Peston, Harry Cole,

all laughing and acting like great mates because they are all great mates. They hang out. Now, his solution to dealing with that problem was not to stop having those types of inappropriately close relationships with journalists. It was to ban pictures like this being taken in the plane. And does that not just tell you it all? And I think, Peter, the thing that makes me so angry about with this story is I promise you, everyone in Westminster knows the truth. Everyone in Westminster knows what we're talking about. And yet the public don't. So why should they know this information about Keir Starmer and the real shape of his family, yet it be hidden from the public? They're all talking about it, but they're not sharing what they know with their audiences.

Yes, I mean, if you're in the public eye, if you're the prime minister of the UK, then of course there will be media scrutiny. And as Emma said, it's non-stop news. So whatever can feed that news cycle will be used. Now, Keir Starmer's wife, Victoria, she has been not a public figure at all. Very different from maybe Sherry Blair, who was right there in the middle.

Even Samantha Cameron was more high profile. She has been very quiet and has just wheeled out here and there. So you, I guess, do feel sorry for her. But on the other side, this is a story that Keir Stormer had a girlfriend and she's now in a certain position. Now, there may be a lot of dots to connect and maybe Ashcroft is going to connect those, and it is a great story for the Daily Mail.

It's a great serialisation. But I don't know if there is what we know at the moment from this part of the serialisation. I don't think there's any damning evidence now, if it came out that maybe he helped promote her. Of course, that would be a story if it came out actually that's where he got his crazy trans views that women could be whatever they want and same for men that would concern because obviously Keir Stormer needed the Supreme

Court to tell him what a woman was and thank God they did that because poor Keir has been confused at what a woman is and what a man but now legally he's been told and therefore he understands and that shows a politician who has no convictions I mean Nigel has bucket loads of convictions

a mountain load compared to Keir Starmer who I think just is a vanilla politician and he has been used by others because he doesn't seem to have an idea or policy about anything. He's a very weak leader. I mean, as Emma says, he does what he is told. He is a globalist mouthpiece in so many ways. I mean, it is quite extraordinary, though, his lack of political nous,

because I will take you through a couple of other parts of red flag by lord ashcroft and this is specifically in the time after that lord ali donation scandal was getting really real momentum even in the mainstream media and lord ashcroft writes no thought had been given to public perception and none of this was sitting well with the punters. When he and his wife went to Doncaster Racecourse for the event, some of the crowd swore and shouted abuse at them. The couple appeared to laugh it off, only for the news to break that Victoria Starmer had accepted £6,134 of gifts from Ali in the form of a personal shopper, clothes and alterations. The next day,

in a sure sign that yet again Downing Street's PR machine had broken down, she appeared at an event to mark London Fashion Week wearing more gifted clothing in the form of a £1,200 dress she had borrowed from the designer Edelene Lee. This was seen as tin-aired at best. Apparently, Starmer did not anticipate the higher level of testing he would face in government compared with opposition, and it shows that he was advised very poorly. A former Downing Street aide told Lord Ashcroft it's incredible that he didn't realise Ali's donations were going to be a problem. Even people who are quite friendly with Lord Ali still don't understand why Starmer and his wife took so much stuff. And of course, that is the question, Emma Kenny, but surely that is a question that the mainstream media should continue to pose.

For example, Keir Staren has blamed his teenage son for the reason that he was staying at Lord Ali's Mayfair penthouse, claiming that his teenage son had to be there to study for his GCSEs. That is utter rubbish, total baloney, balderdash. So there's lots on this the mainstream media could have gone at if they'd wanted to, but they don't want to because he is their man. Yeah, it's almost like he just employs the deny, deflect, project rule. And then the press go, OK, that makes sense. Let's just go with that story. And I think this actually feeds on to actually some of the hit pieces that you've had done on you. This is because there is a benefit for them to stand on the side, for example, of Starmer. And there is no benefit of them to go against him. And the only time that will happen is when real pressure from the public occurs. And if you're in the public, you can feel that pressure building because people are really clever.

I say this to people constantly. There is a real underestimation of intelligence in the public, you can feel that pressure building because people are really clever. I say this to people constantly. There is a real underestimation of intelligence in the UK. The average IQ is 100. It's exponentially large in comparison to any other mammal, for example. We are really discerning. We are really critical. Do you know what we know? We know we haven't got that much money anymore and it's getting even more challenging. And we've got people who are on the streets who are homeless and they're not getting hotels and there are all these very obvious signs and symptoms that champagne socialists and people in the Labour Party who have professed to be for the common person are actually trying to be blind to so it's ironic because this happens time and time again psychologically you pick your side and then you build your bias and then you dig deep into that bias and unfortunately for the press they're doing that and what they

don't fundamentally understand is even though they have evidence in the states it's very clear there are evidence in the states that this crumbles trust it literally divides the way that people feel very very strongly and then eventually it destroys the very individuals who are trying to keep things from the public. It's absolutely happened. And for whatever reason, just like Blockbuster never thought that new technology would catch up, we're dealing with the Blockbuster reality of the press. That's what's happening right now. And everyone can see it apart from those leading the press. That is so true.

That is so true. But for the moment, and I hope Emma is right, Peter, that we are going to enter this new era. But I think what it means for the moment is that we do have a complete two-tier media. Because as Emma also pointed out, Peter, there have been total double standards when it comes to the coverage of Boris and Carrie Johnson's relationship. Do you remember newspapers were splashing day after day, including The Guardian, on the fact that I had a few fights? Yet they will not write a single thing about the marriage of the prime minister of the country being in trouble. So we do have a two-tier media. Oh, completely.

And this is like a cat playing with a ball. They're just having a little bit of fun with him, but don't want to actually have him removed. They want their plaything. And that's why he will remain. He is a, his time on the CPS, he is Sir Keir Starmer. He is an establishment figure.

And wherever that control is coming from, he needs to be in place. And therefore, he will remain. And yet, these stories will be written, but none of them will be really damaging to him. They'll maybe call into question a few things. He'll come out, put out a few videos, and they'll move on. And this is just part of the news cycle, but it's not about removing him, because they really do want to keep him in place so hit pieces and the mainstream media i always felt it was only a matter of time before they came for this platform and other incredible platforms that are being developed by lots of human beings

that I know you respect. Some of them are regulars here on Outspoken, Father Calvin Robinson, for example, some of the guys from the Lotus Eaters, Constantine Kissin and Trigonometry, Nicholas Lesac, you know, the sorts of people that I'm talking about. But I didn't necessarily expect the first mainstream media hit piece coming for Outspoken to come from a publication that I used to respect. A publication that you probably believe to be on the right of politics. But that's what happened over the weekend when the Daily Telegraph launched its first broadside. And I know there will be many coming on. Listen to it.

I don't know whether I should be offended or delighted. The GB News outcasts who are taking the fight for the right onto youtube they said britain's alt-right is aping the MAGA movement as it turns its back on traditional media now my friend megan kelly who really inspired what i do here on outsp, and she was such a big part of me having the confidence to go independent after what happened with me at GB News. She wrote to say, alt-right? Like, what? You've really lost the plot if you're describing someone like me as alt-right, when actually I share the views. You can look at the facts when it comes to the polling. I share the views of the vast majority of the British public. But what I want to do today, take you

through this article, let you know why I think I've got it wrong, and this was a piece of propaganda, and then get the analysis of two people who are now operating in the independent media space, who I respect very much, Emma Kenney. Like me, she has survived mainstream media cancellation and absolutely thrived with her new Emma Kenney True Crime YouTube channel. And Peter McElvenna, who's doing it himself, amazingly, as the host of the Hearts of Oak podcast, which is part of this ecosystem. So let me take you through it. And this was written, by the way, by a guy called James Warrington, who is the media and telecoms editor recently promoted at the Daily Telegraph and unfortunately run in the Sunday Telegraph newspaper in print, edited by

Alistair Heath, the columnist who I had a lot of respect for, but I'm going to say had and put it in the past tense now. So the article starts by talking about me and saying that my daily broadcast provides news and opinion with quote, no spin, no bias and no censorship is not alone in moving to the YouTube platform. He has been joined by a number of other GB News presenters, as well as a wider group of alt-right figures attempting to wield power over Britain's right through their own media ventures. In many ways, the shift online is a facsimile of the step change in US media, where the alt-right has gained ground since Donald Trump's first administration. This has only accelerated the Daily Telegraph reports with his second term in office as close ally Elon Musk has used his ownership of X to turn the social media platform into a MAGA mouthpiece. Would-be British influencers are now trying to mimic the trend

as they capitalize on what they view as dwindling trust in conventional media outlets. So let me pause there, because Emma Kenny, it's not that I view the fact that there is dwindling trust in conventional media outlets. It's the fact I know there is. And the Daily Telegraph actually ran a poll within this article amongst their own subscribers, because only their paid subscribers could vote, about whether they trusted the mainstream media like the Daily Telegraph or the new breed of independent media. It wasn't even close, Emma Kenny. 80% of their

own subscribers said they had no trust in the mainstream media. Yet the Daily Telegraph, the whole tone of this article makes it clear they don't understand that. Well, it's really good that you would-be influencers are having such an impact, isn't it? I mean, just know that you're nearly an influencer, but not really one, just a would-be one, because you've not got Joe Rogan's populist vote at the moment, because you've only just started. The reality is that I've always loved The Telegraph for lots of reasons, because of the individuals who are brave in that particular paper and go against what a lot of the, shall we say, popular media is talking about. But this stings simply because you can feel where it's coming from and it's coming from a place of arrogance and fear.

And those two things together psychologically are pretty problematic because it creates cognitive dissonance such as well I went to university and I studied very hard and I climbed the ranks in this paper and I got my break and now people like an ordinary human being sat in their bedroom on a council estate might be more popular than me in three years time that's something that's really hard for people to bite into and to accept but it's happening it would be far better for them to have started that article acknowledging the fact that there is a new media. It's not an outright. I mean, I don't know why they didn't call you far right,

because everybody seems to be quite okay with suggesting that. Well, I presume if it had been The Guardian, they would have. But because it was The Daily Telegraph, they had to sort of find another term. I mean, I will point out, by the way, Father Calvin Robinson used to be a columnist for The Daily Telegraph. I used to think I was left, so I don't know who I am anymore. I think that alt-right has become a new word for centrist. I think it's people who just have common sense logic, believe in a better world, a safer world, and essentially would like truth. I think that

opinion pieces are really important. I think you can have whatever opinion you like. Offend me as much as you like. But don't make it some academic narrative which suggests that even though everybody can see the absolute reality playing out in front of them, where people are turning to YouTube, where people are celebrating new creators, where people are watching things like Trigonometry, which is just incredible and actually really celebrating the fact that they have a level of trust there it would be better to acknowledge that and instead of saying well actually what's happening is people still really trust the general media which is basically what that article is saying is saying yes all this is happening you're all seeing it but hey look into my eyes look into my eyes not around the eyes look into my eyes you don't

actually see any of this because actually the general media is the best and it's like no one's buying it so it would be far better to have that dialogue I mean with respect to that article there ain't no bad publicity when it comes down to that I'm sure a lot of people who didn't necessarily know your channel know your channel so thanks very much oh yes yes I mean I'll obviously always take the publicity where I can get it. But Peter, what is interesting, though, is that I think they had to look really hard to try and make what I say on this channel and what people like Lawrence say sound extreme. Because actually, what we're saying will be in line with what Telegraph readers think. So let me just read you out some of it, and then I'll get you to respond, Peter. So the guy writes, but for the GB News rejects and other alt-right figures, the move to social media reflects a desire to exert influence

over the political right with viewpoints that would not be allowed on regulated TV. Wooten, who was also sacked as a columnist by the Daily Mail, yes, I was. Yes, I'm proud of it, frequently launches personal attacks on Sir Keir Starmer and his wife. Well, I don't. As I've been very clear today, I launched attacks on Sir Keir Starmer. I'm honest about his wife, but I'm not attacking her. I actually feel deeply sorry for her. They then say he has criticized Farage's attack to the center, suggesting he should take a harder line on Islam and call for some kind of union on the right. How extreme. Then they say on Reclaim the Media, Fox and Robinson similarly accused Farage of trying to appease Islam while branding the reform leader the wokest

politician in Westminster. In a monologue on Trigonometry this week, Kisson, Constantine Kisson branded the trans debate quite possibly the most insane manifestation of woke ideology we've seen. Peter, not one of those lines that they point to are, I think, anything that a Daily Telegraph reader would oppose or disagree with. Don, I think you should launch a political party. That sounds like a great manifesto. I'll vote for you. Never.

So please. No, but you read it and it is surprising where these attacks come from. And of course, the Telegraph and papers are not attacking Nigel Farage. And that is a concern that he has become a darling of the media, just to refer back to the last story. But they call it alt-right, which is about white supremacism or that you can be defined by the colour of your skin. A debate on immigration is about capacity. It's about accepting the culture

where you are. This is not about colour. So to me, that's nonsense. And that first phrase is designed to try and discredit you, Dan. But then they talk about tirades. Tirades? I have yet to seen these angry but then they talk about your tirades. Tirades? Tirades? I have yet

to seen these angry rants they talk about. I mean, and Calvin, you certainly wouldn't get that from Calvin. You certainly wouldn't get that from Colin the Lotus Eaters. I mean, maybe Lawrence might get a bit edgy at times or might get

a bit angry, but Dad, you're one of the most mild-mannered people, along with Calvin, that I've come across in media. And to say that you're spouting these hateful, aggressive statements in a trade is utter nonsense. So I read it and think, this doesn't connect with the person that I've got to know. And The Telegraph gives us the revelation that you find a home on YouTube as if YouTube didn't exist before the 26th of April.

I mean, have they no idea how the media works, how the attorney media works? And I think it's a desperation of the legacy media to hold on to their relevance. Well, people like you, Dan, and many others are taking that spotlight and the public are looking elsewhere and they're no longer interested in the legacy media that only exists for their rich backers or for their advertisers or to be a tool of the government.

And people have seen that, they've had enough of it. And to me, I read the Daily Mail because a bit of entertainment. And it's good to have an idea, but not because I believe it's truthful or honest. That's where I go, Dan, to watch you, to hear what you're putting out. But I do want to hear one of these angry tirades sometime. So maybe start your show, maybe tomorrow with Katie with that.

I don't know. Yes, and the thing is, they are sort of completely out of touch when it comes to YouTube. YouTube is now the biggest broadcaster in the world. It is where all political conversation and debate internationally is held. So the idea anymore that you're sort of on the fringes if you're not on mainstream television and you're on YouTube is just a joke. It's not true. I mean, Emma, I don't know about you, but personally, you couldn't pay me enough money in the world to go back to Wokai TV or GB News and be controlled and be cucked and be told what I had to say and pretend to be woke and say that I like people who I don't. No way.

I'm free. I am finally free. And my God, it feels good. Oh, 100%. The liberation that you feel when you realize that actually none of that matters, you know, and those people you thought your friends genuinely thought you were friends with just disappeared into the ether as they do, which is the complete opposite of what I would do. I'm a person who runs into the flames and protects people who are struggling because that's what I've always believed in. Yes, you do. And I love you for that. But the same, you know, and one of the things that was incredible for me about the new media, the old media, you know, the new burgeoning digital platforms was the thing that really resonated was you can't cancel people who care for you and the public

care and again what I'm going to say is the arrogance of the traditional media believing that somehow you can set up a channel and people are like following because they're like sheep that's not what people are like they're so discerning the average human being is so discerning they have multiple millions of channels to choose from. If they are choosing your channel, it's because they relate to you. They like your content. They believe that what you're saying is trustworthy. And that's where you grow your community. Listen, let me tell you, having worked on YouTube for a few years now, you have to have excellent content. You have to be authentic. You have to do your research. You have to try not to upset people on any level regarding what extremes they might fall into, because the truth is everybody's a loud opinion. Sometimes they'll disagree with you. So you have to be able to be completely free and liberated in your content and the way you make it.

You also have to be very aware of how other people's feelings are affected by that so the idea that you've just got this kind of group of right conservatives coming into your channel or in my case people who are voyeurs of crime which again is just ludicrous it's not it's because people are discerning they want intelligent conversation and debate they want to learn new things and they go where that feels and and and the thing about this platform is there is nowhere to hide. And the only people who succeed in this space are people who are authentic. And it doesn't matter if you're talking about news or if you're talking about makeup or if you're talking about lifestyle or food. That's why Meghan Markle's podcast is flopping, because there's absolutely no authenticity with her. And what was interesting, this story went on to quote a media analyst

called Alex DeGroote. And my God, it was actually Bev Turner, who is one of the few people at GB News who I respect because I think she is a freedom fighter and she stood by me. And she pointed out that this guy just doesn't get it because, listen to this, they write, as a result, DeGroote argues that there is room in the UK media landscape for right-wing personalities to escape their current niche and break out into the mainstream and they quote him as saying the rest is politics and the news agents are successful podcasts and clearly partisan on the left there is a gap in the market but the offerings need to be more muscular to attract younger guys and it's like Peter they don't understand, do they? I have broken out of the mainstream

and there would be absolutely no way I would ever choose to go back to that environment. But they just cannot understand it because they will only ever understand a highly controlled, overly regulated space, which gives power to a very small group of people rather than power to the people. No, exactly.

This is a mindset that is being broken by the new media. And it also says here, after being ejected from the airwaves, these figures have joined a small but vocal group of online influencers attempting to influence right-wing British politics. This is, again, it's that mocking tone, that ridiculing tone. You're not

a small, small but vocal group. You are the individual, the people go to, Dan, and many others. Lotus Eaters is the podcast that people go to for info. And this is destroying the legacy media. And this is the concern. And at the top, they say, you're it being MAGA movement. Well, that's exactly what we need,

a movement that is patriotic, that cares about things impacting our citizens and isn't interested in the world. And that's why President Trump has been successful in America. And we need a similar movement here that puts the UK first and pulls up the drawbridge and begins to address the problems we have here in our own country instead of giving hotels out

and five-year contracts to people who come in boats. Actually, let's care about our veterans and those who have fallen in hard times in the UK. So we need a complete reversal of the role of the state, of the role of the government. And Dan, if what you're doing means that we have a MAGA thinking here, but make Britain great again, then bring it on. That's exactly what we need.

I love the fact that they look at America and they almost are trying to say it's bad what happened there. But this is all about control and they don't want to lose that control. I want to give a shout out actually to the Conservative and Reformer Post, which is one of the other really sound independent political organisations run by a brilliant woman called Claire Bullivant, who is also behind the Great British PAC. And she responded to the Telegraph article brilliantly. And I just want to share it with you because, well, not only because she was so kind to Outspoken, and I so appreciate that, but I really, really believe her words. So this is what Claire wrote

in response to the Daily Telegraph. Telegraph, what were you thinking? You ran a hit piece on Britain's most engaging, honest and profitable media voices, Dan Wooten, Calvin Robinson, Lawrence Fox and friends, only to be humiliated by your own readers, 80% of whom said they trust them over you. Let's be clear, we are living through nothing short of a media revolution, a reformation, a righteous mutiny aboard the creaking ship of state-broadcasted pap. And at the helm, many of the so-called outcasts of the MSM, now our modern-day pamphleteers, liberated from the greasy grip of state subsidies and corporate strings. The alternative media isn't the future, it's already the present. Dan Woodson's Outspoken is racking up over 130 million

views on YouTube alone. That's not just a number, it's a clarion call to the crumbling establishment. That's more eyeballs than many legacy publications see in a decade. While the BBC is burning taxpayer money like a bonfire of unwanted Christmas jumpers and its viewership is aging faster than a ripe stilton in the sun, Dan, Lawrence and Kelvin are lean, hungry and, crucially, profitable. Yes, profitable. A word that certain MSM outlets might wish to Google. Meanwhile, the BBC continues to exist in a time warp where enforced subscription, sorry, licence fees still masquerade as public good. She then says GB News, and I agree with her, is a missed opportunity. Claire says it's a noble and brilliant idea, but dare I say it, perhaps being done in by a weak knees and bit of a corporate cowardice. Once hailed as the last

readout of free speech, it's now starting to resemble the final season of a Netflix show you only keep watching out of habit. It's such a shame, as they had so many firebrands on the payroll, but then sacked the likes of Dan, Calvin and Lawrence for saying spicy things on air, on a Free Speech network. Let's be honest, it's GB News' loss. Their tally of fallen warriors is actually staggering. Dan Wooten, Mark Stein, Andrew Neill, Calvin Robinson, Mark Dolan, Mercy Marocchi, Lawrence Fox, Simon McCoy, Darren McCaffrey, Colin Brazier, Alex Phillips, Liam Halligan, the list goes on, reading like a who's who of stellar brave British contrarianism. But maybe these Lionhearts weren't cancelled at all, maybe they were liberated, and were all the better for it.

And then from the Conservative and Reformer Post, a final word to the establishment. You had your moment. For decades, you monopolised the narrative, dictated the discourse and told the public what to think, wrapped in the illusion of impartiality. But the jig is up. You tried to silence Dan Wooten. He's louder, freer and more profitable than ever. You mocked Lawrence Fox. He's laughing back with a platform you can't control. You dismissed Calvin Robinson. He now commands audiences BB3, C3 would auction its soul to attract. We're done looking to the BBC Sky or The Guardian to answers. We're tuning in to Dan, to Carl, to Calvin, to Maya,

to an ever-growing legion of truth-tellers who speak boldly, think freely, and most importantly, don't ask for permission. People have spoken, they're not watching the news, they're watching YouTube. Video killed the MSM star, and the algorithm buried the body. And I couldn't put it better myself. Much more from Emma Kenny and Peter McElvenna in just one moment. Do you know what the MSM has also covered up? The truth about the death of Jill Dando. And it wasn't a death, was it? It was a brutal murder, which remains unsolved now for decades. We're going to dig in to this growing theory that Jill Dando was attempting to expose the paedophile ring

at the BBC in just one minute. So don't go anywhere. But first, a 2024 study links caffeine to higher anxiety risk. Half of North Americans are sensitive to it and 40 million Americans are diagnosed with anxiety. Coffee jitters fuel anxiety, yet it's the most used drug in the world. And I have to admit, I was trapped too. My thing was never coffee, actually. It was diet energy drinks. You know, that's how I got my caffeine hit, but they were evil. I would feel jittery and anxious and then by the mid-afternoon, totally exhausted. Then I heard Andrew Huberman talking about thebromine found in chocolate, which provides a gentler, longer-lasting energy boost without the anxiety by improving blood flow, getting more

oxygen and fuel to your brain and muscles. And that led me to Morning Bean by Verso, a brew with thebromine and all the good things in chocolate, along with antioxidants and electrolytes for all day energy, hydration, and focus. Now, I have to say, I love my morning bean. I have it right here. And honestly, it's the taste, which is amazing. Rich, chocolatey, smooth, great hot or cold. Not like other coffee alternatives, which can taste absolutely awful. It's genuinely a bit like having a McDonald's hot chocolate.

It's that good. And on top of increasing energy, morning beans ingredients have been shown to reduce stress, enhance mood and balance blood sugar. Cocoa powders, drinks and products are commonly contaminated with high levels of toxic heavy metals, but Verso conducts third-party testing on every batch to ensure they have pure high quality cocoa prioritizing safety and high flavor flavanol continent. Since I started taking morning bean, I feel more focused with less energy crashes. I also like how I get my daily dose of superfoods from it. So if you're looking to replace your

coffee or your second cup, you don't have to give it up altogether, you know. Give morning bean by Verso a try. Just click on the link in the description below or head on over to morning.ver.so slash outspoken and use the coupon code outspoken. You will save 15% on your first order. Let me just repeat that address for you, morning.ver.so slash outspoken, or you can just click on the link in the description box below. But now, back to the show. Breaking right now, growing fears that Jill Dando may have been murdered because she was attempting to expose a paedophile ring within the BBC. Now, I believe that Jill Dando's death remains probably Britain's most high-profile unsolved crime. And it is very shocking to me how the mainstream media, and especially the BBC itself, has backed away from revealing the truth about the story for so long. The Daily Mirror is having a real go at it at the moment, focusing on the idea that it could have been the assassin Milorad Ulamak who was responsible for Jill Dando's death. But what I cannot get over is the fact

that there has never been a proper investigation about the fact that Jill Dando had raised the alarm about the paedophile ring at the BBC before she was killed. I mean, this report from the Daily Express was in 2014, and she knew that there were big name stars involved. That was according to a former colleague. Now, I can tell you that I have also spoken to former colleagues of Jill Dando personally who believe that there must desperately be an investigation over the fact that she was trying to expose what was going on at the BBC and that no one wanted to know. You will remember that the 37-year-old TV presenter was shot dead on the doorstep that there were surprisingly big names involved.

And they went on to say, I think she was quite shocked when told about images of children and that information on how to join this horrible paedophile ring was freely available. Jill said others had complained to her about sexual matters and that some female workmates also claimed they had been assaulted. Nothing had been done and there seemed to be a policy of turning a blind eye. Let me bring in my superstar panel now host of the Hearts of Oak podcast, Peter McElvenna, and the woman behind the true crime YouTube sensation, Emma Kenny, true crime. And Emma, I know this is a case that you have looked at yourself, but can I just ask you first about the fact that this pedophile ring operating at the BBC was kept secret by so many for so long and was so ingrained within the organisation, Emma, that not only was their biggest star, Jimmy Savile, the worst paedophile in British history,

but he was being supported by an entire network of paedophiles, including the drivers that used to be paid for by the BBC to drop these young children off all the time. I mean, it was truly astonishing what was going on. And there would have been so much motivation back in the 1990s when everyone still thought Jimmy Savile was a hero to shut Jill Dando up. Surely, given that this crime remains unsolved to this day, it is at least worth serious investigation.

Yeah, I mean, she was like the Princess Diana of the media. Yes. She genuinely was because she was known for her integrity, her kindness, her compassion. She's multifaceted as well in the way that she presented and the things that she did. So her death provoked a massive national and international storm. And yet we've never really solved it.

Obviously, Barry George went to prison, but he was released. And I think that the investigations that have played out since, they have moved from saying that Barry George, don't get me wrong, they haven't completely exonerated him. He's not got his payout of 1.6 million yet, because they say they need irrefutable proof that he didn't do it. But essentially, there have been investigations and believe that investigations have led to people thinking it was an execution now again some people will argue against that for example they left the cartridge it was a hit in broad daylight she wasn't meant to be visiting that particular property because she was selling it so there are reasons why people don't believe necessarily it was but more and more it seems to be that she did tell those in charge that there

was something untoward happening we know that paedophiles and child molesters are absolutely engaged in powerful positions they can't help themselves but it's all about power it's all about exerting control there's no one you can be more exerting of control over than a child and you always have people systematically who support you because unfortunately whether people want to acknowledge it or otherwise and i cover this a lot on my channel there are a lot of people who are attracted to children. It might be really disconcerting to accept. It might be really challenging to hold that knowledge. But let me tell you, the things I know that go on personally in my therapeutic work that I've worked with, but also professionally, because I know a lot of people who work in the areas of protecting children through the police, for example, who investigate

those horrendous sites that exist. This is so popular. So of course, if you happen to have this predilection, you will surround yourself with other powerful people with that predilection because it creates a safety net. Jill Dando apparently sent a dossier that's been denied by the BBC. But this seems to be general knowledge in a lot of areas. So for me, the bigger question is this, look, if you've nothing to hide, then let everybody investigate. Let them speak me, the bigger question is this. Look, if you've nothing to hide, then let everybody investigate. Let them speak to all the people who were involved. Let them take responsibility

for the failures that occurred. That's how people trust. So if there is nothing that can be brought out in this information, then you've nothing to be worried about. And don't get me wrong, there have been, as you were just saying, links to a warlord because there was a retaliation

because of a bombing that happened at a particular network in Serbia. have been as you were just saying links to a warlord because there was a retaliation because of a bombing that happened a particular network in Serbia and the also the recognition of the fact the bullet was a particular German bullet that fitted the same identity as one used in an execution over there so there were a lot of these kind of different parts but certainly when it comes down to the BBC they hid lots and that makes youpable. And that makes you really be the people who should be saying we'll do everything in our power to be as transparent as possible and to hold those to account if they need to be held to account. You're totally right. Because for example, you've seen big BBC figures like John Simpson, prepared to weigh in behind the Daily Mirror

and call for there to be a new investigation based on what you just outlined, but not when there were question marks about what Jill Dando actually knew about the BBC. And Peter McElvenna, the issue that I have with this is that the BBC has been marking its own homework for too long. It is a truly corrupt and disgusting organisation that especially throughout the 80s and 90s covered up the most shocking, the most shocking crimes. And if it had been a private company, it would have been shut down long ago. And I find it truly astonishing that the BBC has just been allowed to get away with saying, oh, no, no, no, we don't remember Jill Dando doing that, despite one of her former colleagues outlining in some detail that she did.

And the reality is, Peter, there has been a paedophile ring operating at the BBC for decades, and any idea that that paedophile ring was over was surely blown to smithereens the moment that Hugh Edwards was convicted as a paedophile, the man who had run their news division to such an extent that he was given the power to announce the death of the late Queen Elizabeth II on air, despite these rumours about him circulating. Well, yeah, I mean, I've got concern we see in the media and the political realm of closing ranks and covering up people's crimes. And it does seem to be prevalent. And for this to

have happened in the middle of the day, and yet it was the police didn't seem to be able to do their job. But no, again, the government don't want much investigation into the BBC. It's regarded as this national treasure, and they don't want that to be tarnished at all. God forbid people wouldn't pay their licence fee, and then that would have an impact. So it seems to be protected hugely. I haven't followed this, as I remember it vividly,

because Jill Dando was such a high-profile figure, as Emma said, and everyone watched Crime Watching, and she, as a journalist, was doing the work, was actually exposing wrong. And obviously, one of those stones, if not many, was one too far. And then she was removed. And the story about her actually exposing a paedophile ring,

it seems to fit with what we know. But yet it's not something I've delved deeply into. But my concern is that the media roll out this 26 years later. And is it just because they're short of space in the newspaper and is this a concerted effort to actually get justice because often you read stories in the media and it's not about justice it's not about doing the right thing it's about actually this could sell this sounds good it ticks a few boxes clickbait and they are learning from the social media world and my worry is this has been put out just as a clickbait story and isn't about getting justice.

I always think that's a really fair point, to have to ask those questions, Emma Kenny. But for me, when it comes to the BBC, I think there's so much that we still don't know. I think there is so much that we still don't know. I think there is so much that remains covered up and there's so much reason for it to stay secret. I mean, remember, we didn't even know about all of the dodgy dealings behind Princess Diana and the Martin Besheir interview until Prince William really forced the hand of the corporation decades later.

So I guess what I'm saying is it's so not beyond the BBC to institutionally cover something like this up. And I think given the murder remains unsolved, all avenues should be pursued. 100%. If you've got nothing to hide, then you should be transparent and open and you should be willing to drive that kind of investigation to get answers for the people who loved Jill Dando. And that's not just her family. That was a nation. The nation went into mourning when she died because people genuinely saw it as a cold-blooded execution. It's as simple as that. And when you actually consider the fact that we know every organization has skeletons and times have changed, culture has shifted, expectations have grown. And when you hold yourself to a standard, and the BBC does, the BBC says we hold ourselves to a high standard.

And lo and behold, anybody who fails to do that, they will kind of be challenged in that way. Well, if that's the case, you have to hold yourself to the highest standard possible. No matter who that might impact on the way of finding that information out that might expose things that you're unhappy about. There are skeletons in every big organization's closet. But the thing that makes a difference is when people are willing to say this went wrong. This was a failure. These people were responsible. We've investigated fully. And actually, there's nothing to answer. That's acceptable as long as you can show the information and show the process and due diligence that was involved in that. That's where the failure is. The reason that she is still so profoundly important to the UK because nobody doesn't know

Jill Dando's name it's as simple as that kids know Jill Dando's name because she has featured in so many documentaries and so many press articles because people can't let it go why can't you let it go because there feels like there is something sinister beneath it and that sinister flow beneath it could well be to do with protecting individuals who are molesting children. And that is something that provokes the most cerebral and visceral reaction from the British public. Believe me, the thing about the UK is that we are desperate to out these kind of individuals who harm our babies and harm our children and harm our young women and harm our young men. So we're not going to let it go. Dog bone reality. So that's what they should be doing. Couldn't agree more. Now, Emma, tell me about the UK's relationship with true crime,

because obviously in America, this is like a mass market industry. But would you argue that maybe we've been a little bit more conservative over here until of course the launch of your youtube channel emma kenny true climb which has just exploded i'm very very lucky i'm very lucky that that happened but there are young creators in the uk who don't necessarily have my professional experience and stuff who are blowing up as well you know there are individuals that i just have such respect for because I think to myself, I wish I'd done this 15 years ago. I wish I had gone this way independently a long time ago. For me, the thing about true crime is we know a lot about why people watch true crime,

mostly women. So 80% of true crime viewers are female. So that kind of blows away the whole idea of voyeurism. It's not about that. It's about soothing. It's about going through the emotional experience of feeling what it's like to stand in the shoes of another human being that you will never meet, but that you feel compassion towards because of what happened to them. compassionate as the true crime group that follow me, that have cradled me through some of the most traumatic experiences of my life, who reminded me that you can't be cancelled when people try to cancel you. And I think that true crime often gets this idea that people are watching it for this voyeurism and titillation. And that's quite the contrary. In fact, research shows that people who watch true crime are more agreeable and empathic. And that's because most of them do tend to be females. so in the states they've got a bigger population youtube is very good at pushing the algorithm as well

in the states so you do quite well if you're out there talking about it doing your makeup even to it in the uk i think that there are less creators that necessarily have a big audience but certainly the fact that true crime watchers want a diverse group of people to explore with and to go through documentary styles with and to do the makeup with. The point is that you captivate an audience through good content. And for me, it's just been the most liberating experience, the most joyful experience. And of course, my research is diligent, but really, I'm just so grateful for the fact that that true crime audience exists and just has supported me in a million ways it's as simple as that and I feel so unbelievably humble I'm sure you do just like I just and I do what I love we've had a second chance haven't we and

you're so right we have had a second chance to do what we love and to do it because of our audience and nothing means more than that nothing means more than that nothing I just feel like how lucky did I get you know how blessed can I be and I think losing everything during Covid just made the whole experience sweeter i genuinely think sometimes you have to lose everything to recalibrate reframe and grow into the place and person you want to be and i have never like i'm going to be the granny of crime you know i'm going to be the no one can cancel you now that is the incredible thing the daily mail can't cancel you now who cares what they think that That is the brilliant thing. I am a huge fan of you personally, Emma, because, of course, you've been such a big support to me.

You've appeared on my talk and my GB News shows, now outspoken. It's brilliant. But I especially love your channel, Emma Kenny True Crime. And what I'm going to recommend today is that people check out your amazing video. I mean, two years ago, so it shows you how long you've been going on this, but your episode looking in depth into the Jill Dando unsolved murder is absolutely fascinating.

One hour, 22 minutes assassinated on her doorstep. And I'll make sure that we link to it in the show notes. So Emma Kelly, thank you so much for being here on outspoken for the first time and you know peter macklevenner of the brilliant hearts of oak podcast which i also recommend everyone subscribe and follows i always love having you peter so thank you both so much thank you thank you now thank you for your company today on what has been a very big show. And welcome, by the way, I love this, Sandy Muggler, who has joined Outspoken Plus.

Always brilliant to have new people along for the ride. What have you been talking about today? Let me get to your comments. Tony Rathbone says Farage now flip-flops over policy as much as Starmer does on what is a woman and stoppy dingy gangs. Paul Campbell writes keeping political Islam out of politics and controlling migration which includes mass deportations is a must if the UK is to be saved. On the whole Starmer situation Richard B says ordinarily we do not need to know anything about the PM's family, but Starmer used everything he could against Boris Johnson, so should face the same

scrutiny. I completely agree with that. And God is Love and Light said, vote for reform in the local elections on May 1st to get Labour out, but don't vote for reform at the general election if Farage doesn't keep his promise about mass deportation. So thank you so much for all of your feedback today. Now, Greatest Britain Union Jackass Time, let me remind you of the UJ nominees. James Warrington, the media and telecoms editor of the Daily Telegraph, nominated by Darren Donaldson for that failed hit piece against Outspoken, which we well and truly took down today. Ed Davey, nominated by My Thought Time One, because he has to be the world's dumbest politician. And the Youth Demand Activist, nominated by the real Mick Cass. They are the powder-throwing freaks, he says, that threw

powder at the marathon runners yesterday, people running and raising money for charity. Shame on them. Your results are in. In third place, with 16% of the vote, he would have been mine, James Warrington for his Telegraph takedown. The runner-up, with 32% of the vote, youth demand for their ridiculous London Marathon protest. But today's Union jackass, with 52% of the vote, it's Ed Davey, the Liberal Democrat loser. Uni, greatest Britain time though. And, oh my goodness, Karen Hankey. This is the perfect nomination. The Southport Dads running for Bebe and Elsie, two of the young girls murdered during the Southport massacre.

Congratulations. What an incredible thing to do. Now, I hate to tell you this, but we have a brand new Meghan Markle interview today, and she has just broken down on tears. The whole thing is ludicrous. The whole thing is fake, but don't worry. I'm going to be exposing it all by teaming up with the Royal News Network right now on Substack. So come and join us for the fun.

www.outspoken.live So at this stage, we come off YouTube and rumble. We move to Substack to continue the uncancelled after show. I will be back with you though tomorrow, 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Katie Hopkins joining Artspoken for the first time. So excited about that. Make sure you hit subscribe. If you're watching on YouTube and Rumble, turn on the notification bell so that you are alerted to our new episodes. And most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you.