Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE FIGHTS BACK AS REFORM UK BATTLES MASS REVOLT OVER RUPERT LOWE POLICE DRAMA

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

VERSO - https://evening.ver.so/outspoken - Use code OUTSPOKEN to save 15% on your first order. Reform UK attempts to bounce back from a disastrous fortnight of civil war, with reports Rupert Lowe is being wooed by the Tories as Ben Habib is plotting a new right-wing party, by announcing a female candidate for the Runcorn and Helsby by-election. In his Digest, Dan reveals exclusive reporting from the Thatcher Freedom Festival at the weekend about how this Reform row could reshape the right in order to save our falling United Kingdom. Then former Brexit Party MEP and independent journalist Alex Phillips of the That’s What She Said Substack joins me live. PLUS: Camilla Tominey smears Tommy Robinson again as the Daily T host makes a biased documentary claiming the political prisoner is racist AND sexist with zero evidence. AND: Former PM Liz Truss reveals the shocking truth about how the British Bashing Corporation covered up the Muslim rape gang scandal, which she insists is STILL going on. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: The growing feud between Meghan Markle and Gwyneth Paltrow has exploded into public with both sides now trading blows on their Instagram accounts. I’ll team up with the Royal News Network to reveal what’s going on. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Woodson. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 189. And breaking right now, Reform UK attempts to bounce back from a disastrous fortnight of civil war, with reports Rupert Lowe has been wooed by the Tories, as Ben Habib is plotting a new right-wing party, by announcing a female candidate for the Runcorn and Hellsbeat by-election, but given he's called the cops on one of his own MPs, I'm not sure this was a sensible punchline from Nigel Farage. We've selected a candidate who's going to be a lawmaker, and I promise not a lawbreaker.

The chosen woman knew the script, though, praising Nigel in glowing terms. I'm here because of one man. You're all here because of one remarkable man. I first met Nigel Farage 10 years ago. In my digest next, though, I'll reveal why there is concern today about Sarah Poach and because of her claims that refugees are welcome. I'll also

reveal my exclusive reporting from the Thatcher Freedom Festival at the weekend. See, I've got my little Thatcher pin on here about how this reform row could reshape the right in order to save our failing and falling United Kingdom. Then former Brexit Party MEP and independent journalist Alex Phillips of the That's What She Said sub stack joins me live. Also coming up on the show today, Camilla Tomine smears Tommy Robinson again as the Daily T host makes a biased documentary claiming the political prisoner is racist and sexist with zero evidence. And former PM Liz Truss reveals the shocking truth about how the British bashing corporation covered up the Muslim rape gang scandal, which she insists is still going on.

And she speaks up for the so-called rioters. We're seeing a rising movement in Britain. We now have, for the first time ever, I think, tractors in Westminster and Whitehall because the farmers are so angry. We had people rioting. We had people rioting because of the failure to deal properly with the appalling terrorist attack in southport so you are seeing the emergence i think of a of a movement of very frustrated people more of liz trust's explosive revelations later than in the uncancelled after show on substack the growing feud between megan markle and gwyneth Paltrow has exploded into public with both sides now trading blows on their social media

accounts. This is quite something. I'll team up with the Royal News Network to tell you exactly what is going on there. www.outspoken.live. Lots of choices too for today's Greatest Britain and Union Jackass. You choose the Union Jackass. Just go and vote now in our live chat. If you're watching on YouTube, comment as well throughout the show. I'll read out the best before we go today. But your nominees are Thomas Wolbeye, nominated by ItsOnlyMe44. He is, of course, the chief executive of Heathrow Airport for doing away with diesel backup generators due to net zero targets. How the fork can an airport be net zero?

And of course, he didn't even bother to stay at the airport overnight as catastrophe reigned on Thursday into the early hours of Friday. Nominee two, the Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, nominated by Gav Forster for her African trip to learn how to build 1.5 million homes from mud and dung. And of course, it has just been revealed that she asked the authorities to go on a personal safari during this official trip to Ethiopia, even though we had paid for her to go there. And nominee three, Stephanie Mander, the headteacher at Norwood Primary in Eastleigh. She has been nominated by Mother Clanger because she says all the UK schools have decided to cancel Easter celebrations so people of other faiths are not offended. This headteacher said the move aligns with our values of inclusivity and respect for diversity.

So we will announce the winner and our Union Jack cast, plus today's Greatest Britain at the end of the show. Get voting now. But let's go. Reform UK is desperately trying to steady the ship as a revolt amongst its devastated and disheartened grassroots builds over the police investigation sparked by its own chairman, Zia Youssef, into suspended MP Rupert Lowe over hurty words, not to mention this purge of party stalwarts through a draconian vetting process that I am learning a lot about and I will tell you much more of what I know over the course

of the week. So today was an opportunity to get everyone on side with the announcement of the party's candidate for the Runcorn and Helsby by-election, a by-election, of course, caused by the conviction of Labour MP Mike Ainsbury for punching the lights out of a constituent. The announcement of Sarah Pooch in a magistrate seemed to go well, despite this unfortunate line from Nigel Farage, given it is reform, which is currently trying to claim one of its own MPs is a criminal. A successful career in local politics and perhaps most significantly

of all, she has for 20 years served as a magistrate in this area. We've selected a candidate who's going to be a law maker and I promise not a law breaker. Yes! In the context of the circumstances that have led to this by-election is really rather important. And Bochida had definitely got the memo, by the way,

that sycophantic praise for the leader is now a necessity within Reform UK. Watch. I'm here because of one man. You're all here because of one remarkable man. I first met Nigel Farage 10 years ago. He'd just done a speech in Northwich to about 500 activists. And he inspired me that night and he's inspired me ever since.

I've been in politics for about 10 years, but only now do I feel that I'm in the right place with the right people, standing up for the British people and standing up for common sense. Because let's face it, the Labour Party and the Conservative Party seem to have forgotten what common sense is all about. But then it emerged that Pochin had attended a refugees welcome event in May 2022 and all the questions about the party's drift towards the left were immediately sparked again. Now as you can see there her own social media was scrubbed, but you can't erase the past. And here is the evidence of her saying it was a

pleasure to attend that event. Now, the party told GB News that she had been fulfilling civic duties in her role as mayor of Cheshire East and that she now does support net zero migration. But I have to be honest, that's not going to do much to calm the grassroots of the party, especially as they remain divided over the future, given the appalling treatment of Rupert Lowe, who, plot twist, the Sun on Sunday reported at the weekend is now in secret talks with the Tories who are trying to poach the ex-reformer. The British Bashing Corporation, as you can imagine, is embracing the division to report on the grassroots angle, which they say tests Farage's grip on Reform UK. So let me take you through this report over the weekend, which said that

branch chairs have resigned over policy differences, particularly the issue of mass deportations, which Farage has called a political impossibility. Jack Davidson, the the issue of mass deportations, which Farage has called a political impossibility. Jack Davidson, the former chair of the Dover branch, said in attempting to professionalise the party was adopting, quote, the very traits of the establishment it sought to challenge. This culture of silencing was deeply troubling, he said. Another former branch chair in Newcastle, Dan Astley, said the party had not been properly democratised. He said the reforms constitution, which was adopted last year, allowed the party's board to have the final say on sacking and appointing a new leader.

This article also reported, or the BBC said it had learned, that at least 12 interim chairs of local Reform UK branches have resigned over the conduct of the party's leadership. But a Reform spokesman said those resignations amounted to just 2% of its branch chairs. Meanwhile, I was at the Margaret Thatcher Freedom Festival at the weekend, where I have to admit the event was totally dominated by Reform UK, the split within reform, what Rupert Lowe is going to do next, and if there is a chance of any deal with the Conservatives. And making news, Lord Frost, Boris Johnson's brilliant former Brexit negotiator, I think one of the few sound men left within the Tories, admitted that a deal, some sort of deal between the two parties may well be required. Watch.

Can you ever be really conservative again, given what we've seen? Can we really trust you? Can we really believe you? And for reform, the question is, Iol, a ydym ni'n gallu credu chi? Ac i ffwrdd, mae'r cwestiwn yw, dwi'n meddwl, cwestiwn am sefydliad, am ddibwysedd, am y ffordd o adeiladu rhan sy'n gallu cymryd rhan a chyflawni. Ac rwy'n credu bod y ddau o'r rhai yn gwestiynau hyderus am y rhai sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd. Ac mae unrhyw un sy'n dweud ei bod yn gwybod sut y bydd hyn yn mynd i ddod o hyd

yn ymdrin â'i hunain. Mae llawer o bet bod yn gwybod sut y bydd hyn yn digwydd yn eu gwblio. Mae llawer o bethau a allai digwydd ac yn ein bod ni ddim yn gwybod. Mae'r cymhwysoedd yn credu yn y cyd-dynion, yn y leiaf, rydym ni bob amser wedi'u gwneud, ac rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n ddigon yn ei wneud. Rwy'n credu mai dyna'r hyn sy'n digwydd ar y dde. Mae'n amser hir, yn anffodus, i'r ddewis cyffredinol nesaf. Rydyn ni'n rhaid, rwy'n meddwl, i gael y cwmpetiti hwn yn chwarae.

Os ydym yn dod i mewn 12 mis o ddewis cyffredinol arall, ac rydym yn dal i'w rhannu 50-50 neu ychydig, yna mae'n amlwg bod pacte, cyfathrebu ar gynllunio, oherwydd na allwn ni fynd i mewn i gynulleidfa, rhannu a chroeso, ond nid ydym ar y pwynt hwnnw ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen gwyddoniaeth, mae angen dangos pwy yw'r mwyaf wedi'i ddefnyddio i ddod allan ar y dde. Nawr, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n dal i mewn i'r Pwyllgor Cyserfysgol, dwi'n meddwl bod y Pwyllgor Cyserfysgol yn cael rhai hynny o gyffrediniaeth mawr yn y cyfadrebu honno, ond nid yw'n I'm still in the Conservative Party. I think the Conservative Party has some big advantages in that competition, but it's by no means self-evident that it will exploit them or that it will win. That said, there was a huge amount of fury

at the Thatcher Festival towards the Tories. I mean, there were literally Tories through and through standing up and saying, how dare you even speak on this stage without apologising? How dare you believe that there is any chance that we will ever vote for you again? And sort of on that type of approach, Lord Frost was pressed further by Nana Akwere of GB News in what became a fascinating exchange.

Watch. I mean, I watched, I was conservative through and through to the core. What I watched, what I watched, you tear each other apart, destroy each other. We had how many, how many Home Secretaries did we have in the last four, five years? I think it was eight.

Then one year there was almost three. You had, I think, 10 Education Secretaries. yn y pen diwethaf neu chwe, a chwech, ac roedd yn un blwyddyn, roedd yn gair. Roedd gennych chi ddwy brifysgolion addysg, gallem chi ddynnu un, ond nid wyf, oherwydd mae'n anodd. Felly, i fod yn onest, sut ydych chi'n mynd i gynnal y trwsn o'r pobl Brydeinig? Oherwydd byddwn i'n hoffi edrych ar y Partei Gynhreidio angen i'w ddangos fel Parti Gynhreidio eto. Ac, wyddoch chi, nid yw hynny'n golygu bod pawb yn rhaid i chi credu'r un peth, ond rwy'n credu y byddai'n rhaid i ni fod yn fawr o'r hyn mae'r Parti Gynhreidio'n ei ddweudu ac yn benodol ar hyn o bryd, mae'n fwy o fwyllt i'r llall. Ac, wyddoch chi, rwy'n credu bod Kevin wedi cael sbeth da iawn, dwi'n meddwl, ar Net Zero, ar Ffwrdd. Roeddwn i'n gobeithio y gallai fod wedi mynd ychydig ymhellach ond roeddwn i'n meddwl bod hi'n dda.

Mae'n bwynt dechrau da. Ond mae'r problem yw bod chi wedi clywed pobl yn dweud, chi'n gwybod, bron wrth i mi fod yn cael ei ddarparu, oh ie ond rydych chi'n gwybod y llall o'r parti byddwch chi ddim yn ei gadael ac um hyd at ein bod yn gallu ddelio â'r problem honno bydd pobl bob amser yn dweud, wel rydych chi'n gwybod sut gallwn ni, sut gallwn ni'n ymddiried â chi ac rwy'n credu bod angen i ni gael rhyw fath o ddweudleisyddiaeth o beth mae gynharachwyr yn ei fod yn rhaid i bobl ysgrif nhw. Ac os na allwch chi ymgysylltu â'r bobl, na fyddwch chi'n rhaid i chi fod yn rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan. Ac os wnawn ni ddiwethaf y fewn o'r MP ar y llawr, efallai dyna'r pris i'w ariannu. Ie. Dwi ddim yn ei eisiau, ond rwy'n credu y gallai fod yn amlwg. I don't wish it, but I think it might well be inevitable. And if it is inevitable, I think it should happen on the leader's terms,

on the issue she wants it to happen on, and something that delivers political momentum for the party and for the right generally. And yes, that was me cheering along, because of course, a load of these conservatives in names only should just rack off and join the Lib Dems. And I've been saying that for a very long time. And maybe, actually, the Conservative Party does need an injection of a man like Rupert Lowe, who isn't going anywhere. This weekend, he both emphasised his ongoing support for mass deportations and his criticism of Nigel Farage. So first, let's start with the mass deportations. He says, it's mass deportations for illegal migrants or a mass

amnesty for illegal migrants. I choose deportations every single time. He then continued his very public battle with Nigel Farage, writing, silencing critics doesn't stop failure. It just guarantees nobody warns you about it. I've run big businesses. I hire people who are smarter than me, more capable than me, and know more than me. I trust them. I welcome criticism and robust debate. That's why I pay them. I know what I don't know. In fact, I know that I don't know an awful lot, but I find people who do know and trust them to deliver. That's how organizations succeed. It's the only way organizations succeed. A good leader doesn't create followers, they create more leaders. And while this might be dismissed as the online right, Reform UK likes on X have fallen 56% since suspending Rupert Lowe.

Something Nigel Farage ally Lois Perry is blaming, I believe incorrectly, on dark forces. But let's hear her argument. OK, but Lois, what has happened with his bot cyber attack from India? OK, so I can say this. This is coming from the main man. This is coming from the top. OK, so and it's also coming from people who know about this stuff. I'm not making it up. It's not a conspiracy theory this is happening so okay so there's so there's been a cyber attack from the bots in india um and what have they done right so basically what they're doing is that that anyone anyone who's doing anything pro rupert lobe replacing nigel or

anything that's replaced anything that causes, that we're having thousands and thousands and thousands of likes that are coming from Indian bots. And Alex Phillips, a longtime Farage ally, posted on this, in recent weeks, I've noticed a rapid splintering of the right, so rapid it simply cannot be organic. A ridiculous race to absolutism, goading Brexiteers and patriots to cannibalise. Who does that benefit? Perhaps you think only Russia does farms, huh? Does bot farms, huh? Unseen forces are at work. Don't be part of their plan. And to explain what she means, I'm delighted to say Alex Phillips joins me now. So, Alex, what do you mean by this potential dark force that is

trying to make the civil war within Reform UK worse? Because isn't it just the fact actually that people are really angry and Rupert Lowe we know is boosted by Elon Musk, which is one of the reasons why he's getting so much traction online? Yeah, well, that, of course, is the most significant part that's being played here. But as someone who's worked in multiple foreign election campaigns and one of the big calls in many foreign election campaigns is either the use of or preventing the use of cyber forces,

because 10 years ago, elections used to be won on what we called the air war, which was television interviews. And people used to really argue the toss over who should be in the leadership debate. You remember the time when David Cameron tried to dilute the prominence of Nigel Farage in the leaders' debate by inviting Plaid Cymru and the Green Party and the SNP to be part of it. So it became a sort of, you know, five-way, well, no, seven-way. It was a seven-way panel because he was terrified about having to go face-to-face with Nigel Farage. Well, those were the sort of tactics used 10 years ago when television ruled the day. Now we know actually that digital campaigning rules the day and really that the start of use of digital advertising,

digital sweeping and bot farms really happened under Barack Obama. That was the time that the nature of campaigning changed. And I've worked on multiple election campaigns and also I'm a prolific user of X. And I noticed a sort of huge, huge change in sentiments in terms of negative comments and lots of accounts popping up who were very critical of people on the right wing and seemed to want to push elements of the right wing to very extreme places. I'm not just talking about, oh, you know, should we deport people who are here illegally? I'm talking about sort of narratives

encouraging things like ethnic cleansing. And I thought to myself, this seems very strange. Either all of a sudden the population and the demographics of those using X has wildly changed in the space of 24 to 48 hours or something else is afoot. And so I spoke to a very dear friend of mine who is an expert in cyber warfare.

He actually uses his talents more than anything to track people traffickers and animal poachers in Africa. But he is able to use a lot of different techniques and services and other companies, third parties to look at work commercially and electorally. And we had a long conversation about this. And he said, you know, it does seem to me that there's a lot of activity going on. If you look at the spikes of activity, if you look at the concentration of activity around certain narratives where a few days or a few weeks ago those accounts just wouldn't have existed there wasn't that number of people and certainly not that number of people sharing those kinds of sentiments what is creating this huge storm if you will of online activity on x yes that isn't to deny okay that there's been a split in reform and people are picking sides and people are venting and people are angry.

One doesn't nullify the other from existing. But what you can see is an online activity that is happening that doesn't actually tether to what we're seeing when you lose other metrics. So when you look at things like polling, for example, reforms, polling hasn't hugely been affected. Yes, we can look at certain examples of branch chairman quitting, but as the party says, it only relates to 2% of branches. And so I know a company, the leading company that deals with this sort of audit, if you will. And they in fact did the audit of Twitter, when Elon Musk wanted to buy it to actually look at what generation of content on Twitter was coming from fake accounts, because that would have affected the valuation of the company, given that if it's exposed that 80%, let's say, if accounts aren't real people, then that massively reduces advertising revenues when you realize that those aren't people who are going to go buy products. So looking at all of these factors, I have suggested strongly that there needs to be a proper audit done because everybody I've spoken to has suggested that there is definitely manipulation at the very least of an ongoing crisis in the party to try and maximise it.

Now, a number of people might benefit from that. A number of people. You could have corporate entities, the EU, etc, who don't want to see a strong and prominent reform. You have people engaged in the sort of Davos WEF circles who don't want to see the United Kingdom being in the grip of a new party and not a legacy party like the Labour Party who will go along with their narrative. It could be the act of a political rival. You know, the whodunit list is relatively endless. But what is clear, and this happens all the time, by the way, this isn't just some sort of theory that all of a sudden, wow, look, people are using bots and inorganic accounts to try and really push narratives and sentiments. You have companies set up to do this. You can buy

into PR applications who will measure the sentiment, whether it's positive or negative of your output and be able to look and tabulate graphs. And equally, you have entities who try and push those graphs in different directions. And without a doubt, this goes on all the time anyway, but I saw a huge cluster of activity surrounding the reform fallout. That's not surprising, is it? Reform is the party at the moment that's been polling the greatest, you know, just beating at the legacy parties,

and all of a sudden it's split. But you must acknowledge, though, there are thousands of Reform UK members, right? I mean, I'm looking at them in our live chat right now who are saying, we're furious, Alex, and we're not a bot. We're not a bot. But what I said is the two things don't live exclusively. You actually need the kernel of something that happens

to then enable the artificial stimulus to seize upon and maximise, okay? You know, sometimes, actually, you do see a bit of fake news planted, which is then, you know, someone tries to make that trend. But normally it's the kernel of something that's gone on that people then use to try and create clusters, either on one side or the other side, or very often on both sides to create that internecine warfare. And so I'm not saying that people who might have their frustrations and that's not valid and that they don't exist. What I'm saying actually is what you tend to find is when you get these huge clusters and augmented versions of divisions going on, it actually tribalizes people even further. It actually increases the amount of negativity that someone feels because they're looking online and they're seeing a particular post pushed by algorithms because of all of the activity underneath. And so they begin to feel, gosh, all these people are really angry. I should be feeling angry too. Or gosh, all these people are really inspired. I should be feeling inspired too, because bot farms can be used to either push

a negative or a positive. And I have no doubt that in times past that they will have been used. I'm not saying by reform, I very much doubt it, because when I speak into the leadership of reform, they had no idea about the sort of companies I was talking about, suggesting they might want to engage them. But you will also have activities swirling around certain candidates or certain entities or certain topics that are there to inspire a positive reaction. But so much of our online existence is, well, it isn't it it's virtual existence isn't it it's not the same as human existence and a lot of it can be manipulated a lot of it is manipulated and that is being done to try and heighten those sense of emotions that people are feeling when they're feeling angry when they're feeling frustrated when they're feeling invalidated they will look at what

they think is a sea of public opinion that then they sort of attach themselves to and go along with that flow so i do think we need to be quite cognizant over what is artificial when we live in an algorithm world of doom scrolling and within the chambers of x but what actually doesn't subscribe to that is if you look at outside polling because not everybody is attached to you you know, going on X on their timelines like I am. And when you look at the polling of reform overall, the arguments that have happened within the party that are ugly, that aren't nice, that are putting off a lot of dedicated members. It's not really indenting the party's overall public approval rating. So it's just contextualising.

And because I've worked for a long time in election campaigns and strategy and campaigning, I can see it from a mile off. I know when something is being deliberately churned up, when the algorithms are at play and probably interference is at play. And so that's what I was saying. And what concerns me is the right wing, for the very first time, is in a position where it can win the next election, but the proper right wing, not the fake right wing, not the sort of Conservatives for the last 15 years right wing,

but something we've all desperately wanted for decades is now in a position that it is polling the highest because the issues that it talks about are at their most critical and the people who will benefit like i said in my tweets the people who benefit from that particular movement splintering and fracturing and tearing itself apart will be the opposite it will be the left wing. OK, so that's what I'm warning about. I think we all need to have cool heads, cool hearts. We're a long way to go before the next general election. There are plenty of people stirring the pot who don't want a right wing government and a proper right wing government that are going to tackle those big issues. And so we need to keep cool

heads. We need to think carefully and sensibly and try not to get wrapped up in social media storms that may not be what you think they are. and his employer, GB News, over its coverage of the Reform UK civil war following Rupert Lowe, its axed MP, being reported to the police. Let me take you through the story first, broken in the mail on Sunday, which reported Nigel Farage has had a bust up with his GB News bosses over the channel's extensive coverage of his feud with suspended reform MP Rupert Lowe. Mr Farage admitted last night he had not been overly thrilled about how GB News dealt with the fallout from the row with Mr Lowe, which exploded after he questioned Farage's leadership in a Daily Mail interview. But sources at the station claimed Mr Farage had refused to present his primetime show in protest, although this was disputed by Farage and GB News, who said he was due to be off screen as part of the pre-local election herder period and had decided to do

so a week earlier in order to attend reformed dinners and honour commitments in America. However, Nigel, first time he's publicly criticised GB News, said, We weren't overly thrilled about how GB News devoted more airtime to the issue than any other channel. We had a right go at them about it. GB News editorial director Michael Booker responded saying, we like to have a good relationship with all the parties. We owe it to our audience to treat every story on merit without fear or favour. But is that really the case? And I only ask because of the reporting today of this story in regards to the new reform candidate Sarah Pochin who attended a refugees welcome event in 2022 this is something that the party had tried

to scrub from social media and if you look at the headlines, GB News appears, and this is reporting from Connor Tomlinson, by the way, who has uncovered this, appears to have softened its stance after pressure from Reform UK. So the first headline, which you can see here, Reform UK's run-corn candidate welcomes Syrian and Afghan refugees, but now fully supports net zero immigration. However, that headline has now been changed to read Reform UK's Runcorn candidate fully supports net zero immigration and is committed to deporting illegal migrants. Now, Conor Tomlinson raises the question, hold on, did GB News change the headline to remove the fact that reform candidate Sarah Pochin attended a refugees welcome event in

2022? The headline makes her sound like an immigration hardliner and buries the fact she welcomed more Afghan and Syrian asylum seekers. So Alex Phillips, this is absolutely fascinating, isn't it? Because I guess it sums up the issue of your star presenter being a key politician, a potential future prime minister, who isn't necessarily going to like the way that his bosses are covering his party. Which side do you fall on here? It's fascinating. You know, these are big party issues, aren't they? Like we say, it's a first world problem. This is a big party problem because you'll find that newspapers and all the rest of it will have their particular party, their editorial line. But at the same

time, there are the market forces. And so GB News knows their audience will be particularly wrapped by anything related to reform, the negative and the positive. And so in order to get eyes on the channel and clicks on the website, it's going to have wanted to maximise the story that was getting the most attention from its particular audience. And you can imagine why their star presenter, Nigel Farage,

might not like that as much as GB News might be liking it. Now, I don't know whether he would have gone and banged his hand on the desk and said, stop doing it. I don't think so. I don't think Nigel's particularly churlish like that. Whether someone in his team might have said to somebody, I don't, look look we don't know what went on but it seems quite clear from that at least that one of two things may have happened

either there might have been a conversation saying look come on yeah take your foot off the pedal a little bit of when it comes to reform we're allied you know ideologically to them as a party or whether or not actually the party press office itself issued a correction and said we don't like the story that you've published she attended an event in 2022 as then mayor you know that's three years ago now she's our candidate and this is where she stands in terms of policy and that's how any political party's press office works by the way you know reform uk aren't the first party to have a spin doctor and be on the phone to editors saying can you change the way you know reform uk aren't the first party to have a spin doctor and be on the phone to editors saying can you change the way that headline reads and this is why this is not

new this is not some sort of media manipulation or conspiracy theory those people going oh what's going on it's like come on grow up how long have you been in politics but do you have concerns alex that she did attend this event because i guess what i'm worried about is the fact that they have scrubbed all of her social media and there seems to be this real paranoia in regards to the vetting now if there was nothing dodgy about her past and she wasn't supporting this event then why delete her entire ex account? Why delete her Facebook? I want to know about this woman. I want to know, was she just attending in her role as mayor or actually, is she a bit of a lefty? Well, right. Then that is the sort of thing

you ask of a candidate. But this sort of retrospective archaeological cancellation, which is what the left is so good at doing wow someone on the right wing once said this aren't they terrible they must now lose their job they're now not viable we now shouldn't trust them they now shouldn't be believed because they deigned to say three years ago something that today we've changed our minds about that is today considered unacceptable and people have previous lives she used to be the conservative candidate okay she used to be an independent mayor and as independent mayor, she would have been asked, you know, billeted to do all sorts of events. And is it a surprise that there was a particular event and as independent mayor, she was invited to go to it.

And then she or her social media team put up, you know, that sort of, yes, I've been to this event. It doesn't mean that three years later, even if this woman, and I met her by the way, I met her, I think she's really quite brilliant and wonderful. And can I just say a huge fan of yours and a big fan of mine. So there you go. That to me is... Okay, well, that's one tick. She gets one tick for that. It's impossible, Dan. You know, I've held all sorts of beliefs in the past. My politics have changed. On some areas, I've become more ardent and braver and more courageous things so first of all even if she's someone who suddenly woke up two years ago and went do you know what I used to think immigration was fine I used to think when we first started accepting refugees having these people come from Syria and

Afghanistan was the right thing to do but now I've seen how it's been exploited and you know the skills have fallen from my eyes and I say no more well fine that's what we want everyone to suddenly do that's what we're out here doing campaigning for so people who right now still think refugees are welcome can be educated to realize that it's nonsense and dangerous so the idea that a someone might have changed their mind or hardened on a position you know therefore gosh but three years ago they went to an event and what's more she was the blimmin independent mayor of course she was going to that event it's exactly the sort of thing she probably would have been going to because at that

point in time if you said to her you're going to be the reform party candidate to be the MP for Runcorn she'd have said what people? People change. Circumstances change. Retrospective, archaeological sort of evidence finding and then cancellation. That is what the left wing do. It's not what we do when people turn around and say, this is what I believe today. I'm putting my neck on the line. I'm standing as the candidate for reform. I know exactly what reform stands for, which is why I want to be somebody who actually represents them and is in the front line for them. You've got to take them at their word. And yes, by all means, challenge her right now on her belief system. But I think everybody does know now that, you know, reform is a party of net zero immigration. They've said it for long enough. If anything,

the accusations constantly that they don't go far enough. And we all know that Nigel had this sort of strange period at the start of 2025, where he had softened his rhetoric on immigration for various reasons, mainly, I think, the political expedience in those local elections. But I can tell you this, this character assassination, as if Nigel suddenly has become wet on immigration, wet on sovereignty. It's absolute BS, Dan. It's BS. And I'm fed up with people, you know, trying to outflank and go, I'm more lightweight. I'm braver.

I'm a real leader. I would do this. Well, where were you for the past 30 years when that man was doing it? When that man was taking the flag, leading from the front. When that man was the vanguard of political debate in this country. When that man was the only man talking about leaving the EU or even curbing immigration, Nigel has been the only person standing up for these things for so, so long. And do you know what? Yes. Do you know, perhaps even I noticed that he wasn't as strident on immigration as he

had been. Did I suddenly think it had a lobotomy or changed his politics? No. Do I think he was making a calculated decision to try and make sure that the polling goes up to a certain level so we can get more people on side with the party to really get a foothold in politics in order that he may lead the country in the right direction? Yes. But I don't want to go down into these ridiculous games that Guardian readers play. It's not us, Dan. It's not the way we operate. Alex, can I ask about the GB News situation overall with Nigel, though? Because you know they have this thing called the editorial charter at GB News, because GB News is not a free speech station. I've just got to be clear on that. This isn't sour grapes. It's not bean bitter. You can argue it's because of the off communists. But actually, there are strident policies, far more strident, by the way, than what you

and I ever had to sign up for, Alex, that the presenters at GB News now have to agree to. So, for example, if you're a presenter on GB News, you are not allowed to describe, even as a joke, or allow one of your guests to describe Rachel Reeves as Rachel from accounts. You're not allowed to use my nickname for Keir Starmer, Slippery Starmer, or call him Two-Tier Keir. Now, that poses lots of awkward questions for Nigel, given that he's constantly talking about the fact that Lee Anderson was the one who coined the phrase Rachel from a council, the nickname Rachel from a council.

So that's the first thing. But then this sort of public warfare between the two, do you think it's sustainable? Is he questioning whether it is possible for him to stay at GB News? Do you know where that is at? Do you think it is possible for him to remain at the station, given he's now openly criticising its editorial decisions? I might know things. I might not say those things.

Because I have, you know, come on, you know, if a mate tells you something, you don't go blurting out to everyone else no i get that i get that but but you know the fact of the matter is this gb news decided they wanted to make a big success of being on linear television of having a channel on the program guide that you could get your remote control and flick and watch on television they said that that is the jewel in the crown that's the most important thing we need that or win nothing we want to compete in that arena but the problem is if when you're in that arena you have to then sign up to being regulated and Ofcom as a regulator they've actually got a load of new staff in Ofcom the old guard who were kind of fairly lackadaisical

actually who used to let people get away with a lot of stuff and they've kind of all taken their retirement checks and you've got a whole of new younger civil servants who don't know as much about the regulation game in the uk who are being very proactive let's say there's been a whole lot of off-camp investigations i've just had mine cleared whoo i'm good politician yeah there was a whole debate whether i could present on talk because i was a politician as i as elected five years ago to a party that doesn't exist anymore, to a parliament we're not even in anymore. And even then I was elected for six months. But it's taken me this long to basically be able to carry on.

They are ludicrous. It is, yeah. CB News decided they wanted to be in that pool. They wanted to be in that arena. And a lot of people watching this, I don't know if they're sort of fully, therefore fully engaged and they only watch things online now and don't bother turning things on the actual telly anymore. And sadly, a lot of people still do watch things on the actual telly. They sort of, you know, channel scroll and kind of think

unless you're on the actual telly, you don't really exist. You're kind of a pretender or you're fringe. We're in this transition, it's a bit like, I'm going to call it the CD stage, right? We used to all listen to music on, first it was vinyl, then it was cassettes. Then all of a sudden the CD was invented and everyone's like, oh my God, the CD's the future. It's definitely my youth.

I've got like a garage, my parents' garage is full of like scratched and weird CDs from, you know, about 20 years ago. But then about 10 years after the CD became a big thing, the CD stopped existing because everyone had MP3 players. And iTunes and things like that. And so we're in the CD phase at the moment of moving from linear television to digital and online where the regulator can't touch us and can't mess with us. But GB News wants to stay as a CD. And that means it's going to have to obey all of those rules. And Nigel just isn't really a rule taker. You know,

he's not the sort of man who likes being straight jacketed. It was an exciting channel when it first launched. It was, you know, doing a brilliant, bold and necessary thing. If it wants to keep pace with public opinion and the direction of travel and an ever-changing industry, well, you know, it probably needs to sort of look more as to what people like you are doing and look more at the online space where it cannot be controlled and it cannot be straight jacketed but if people are watching gb news frustrated buy it because it kind of thinks it's got too many lefties or it's no longer allowed to say this um we're constantly have to balance stuff or it hasn't got these presenters and these presenters are really exciting well that's what you get for watching something literally on the television set. That kind of comes with the territory. If you want real, bold, truthful, uncensored as you are,

Dan, unbiased, unspun, if you want that, then I'm afraid you're going to have to tune into this program and not GB. And it's interesting because I think Nigel would do so much better in the independent space. I mean, I remember having these discussions with him, and he's been very open about it. This is when we were still at GB News. But before GB News, he had considered launching Farage Media. And actually, if he is going to have such problem with GB News management, and by the way, I'm not criticizing him for that, there's a lot of reasons to have huge issues with GB News management. And by the way, I'm not criticizing him for that. There's a lot of reasons to have huge issues with GB News management. I guess the argument is go and do it on your own. You'll end up making as much money actually, and you will

have freedom. So it is a very interesting time. But for me, I think it's quite significant that he was prepared to publicly criticize the management. It's certainly something another presenter wouldn't get away with, Alex, but obviously they desperately need and cannot afford to lose Nigel Farage as he really is their only presenter who now consistently beats the British Bashing Corporation and Sly News. Breaking right now, growing outrage over the MSM smears over Tommy Robinson, specifically in regards to the man being asexist, a racist, and unbelievably an anti-Semite. Now, I'm going to come in just a moment to Camilla Tominey's really shoddy investigation for the Daily Telegraph and their struggling podcast, The Daily T. She has been on a long campaign. I don't believe to present the truth about Tommy Robinson. She

obviously went on this morning and derided him and in her own words was defamatory about him. But GB News did decide to cover Tommy Robinson only after he lost his high court battle last week. I was in court. I looked to see if anyone from GB News was there. Absolutely not. But after he lost, they did feel they could cover the case. But unfortunately, what they did was allow a mad lefty to yet again spout defamatory nonsense about the man. Watch. Look, frankly, I don't care where he ends up. As long as he serves his sentence, it doesn't bother me which prison he's in.

He should be treated the same as any other prisoner. And as you say, it's not a serious crime, but it is a crime, and it's a crime that he willfully committed. We've been talking about racist thugs. Tommy Robinson is another one of those. That's not why he's in prison. I was just about to say, I accept that that is not why he's in prison, but was just about to say, I accept that that is not why he's in prison,

but it is nonetheless true. Why is he racist? He has made... I mean, I don't even... No, I'm not going to justify your question. Well, come on, because he doesn't have a... He is a racist. He and his supporters would deny that vehemently. He's got, as far as I'm aware,

again, I'm not a massive Tommy fan or anything, I don't really know much about him, but when you come on a TV channel and say, this man is racist, you need to give an example of to what... He has made all sorts of multiple... Like I said, I'm not making any comment on his supporters, by the way, because you can support Tommy Robinson and not be a racist. Tommy Robinson is on the record

making all sorts of overtly racist statements. He is a racist. Now, Paul Thorpe posted after that exchange, this absolute melt goes on GB News and tells the nation that Tommy Robinson is a vile racist thug. Quote, when asked to back up his statement, he says he's not going to justify the question. In other words, he's talking absolute bollocks and he knows it.

I don't know who this fool is. I've never seen nor heard of him, but the challenge is the question. In other words, he's talking absolute bollocks and he knows it. I don't know who this fool is. I've never seen nor heard of him, but the challenge is the same. Come onto my show and back up your claim. Now, Alex Phillips, I actually have no idea who that guy is either. Basically, we both know there's like a conveyor belt of loony lefties who GB News has to put on air to please the off-communists. There's others like Benjamin Butterworth and Stella the Greek, all of those types of people. But what I found fascinating in that exchange, Alex, were two moments. The first when quite clearly that lefty had absolutely no evidence to prove that Tommy Robinson is racist because there's nothing they can point to. There's no line.

There's no quote. It doesn't exist. But then secondly, the presenter on GB News, Ben Leo, feeling that he had to say, oh, well, I'm not a fan of Tommy Robinson, and then admitting that he had done no research into Tommy Robinson, that he hadn't looked into him and it's almost like I would argue willful blindness that is in the mainstream media because they don't want to know about Tommy Robinson because they know their bosses don't want them talking about Tommy Robinson it's willful blindness in the mainstream media but also Dan I'm afraid it's willful blindness in the human psyche as well it's the way that humans are you know we are herd animals socially we don't want to be radically outside of the pack we sort of feel our way around

what we think is acceptable what we think the majority are going to believe in before we say something or expose something it's why actually look going and it's sort of going on a bit of a sort of radical psychological philosophical tangent but it's why actually bot farms and algorithms are very effective on pushing public opinion, because if people think enough, people feel a certain way, they go along with it. Whereas if they think they're out on the limb and they're the only one, they don't trust their own instincts. And so but it's sort of like, you know, the idea, the way Tommy Robinson's spoken about it is now so baked into poor core public belief like when people would say you know oh the problem we've got a problem with the nhs but that's not a criticism of the hard-working

doctors and nurses you know people always have to say the hard-working doctors and nurses before slagging off the nhs our nhs as it's now supposed to be called. This is sort of part of the way that human beings work. We're pack animals. And actually, when you look at mass hysteria or mass belief systems, it tends to affect women even more than men or people with an effeminate mindset rather than a masculine mindset. And I'm not, you know, critiquing that rando. I don't know who he is, but he didn't really strike me as I lift weights

and I've got, you know, huge amounts of testosterone coursing around my body and it's a very sort of feminine mindset to want to fit in and to want to not be courageous and stand out um like a sore thumb and have true sort of belief in your convictions and risk being unpopular and that is what the tommy robinson now when it comes to people in the media, that is what the Tommy Robinson effect is. But what you're noticing as well is the more people are turning around and sticking their head about the parapet and going, do you know what, I've spoken to the man. Or I went back and I looked at footage and I, for myself, tried to see the things he said that is why he's called a racist or why he's called a thug and I couldn't

find anything the more people who do that and start to say that and the more that creates a head of steam the more you'll start to find these people fall and they'll start turning around going I always liked Tommy Robinson I always thought he was okay you know it's this is more to do with, I say, human psychology than anything else. But it's sad, you know, it's sad that our media works in a way that we don't have alpha characters. We don't have people who are proper researchers and data gatherers and have independent convictions that we do have a lot of herd instinct, wet feminine types dominating the media discourse and people who don't have courage of conviction. Indeed. And on that note, Camilla Tominey conducted this investigation, investigation for the Daily Tea podcast on the

Daily Telegraph. Now, I watched the whole thing because I wanted to be fair to her. And I hoped that she would open her mind a little bit after she'd been on this morning and made defamatory claims about Tommy Robinson. What was so fascinating, Alex, is on this journey, she also found no evidence of Tommy being racist being racist or anti-semitic so i thought okay this is going to be interesting because she hasn't found any evidence of this she's relying on a gut feeling which has come from the coverage of this man in the mainstream media and camilla tomine believes the mainstream media so much because she's part of it and it's her future and the mainstream media is everything. So she just thinks, well, there's no way that the mainstream media narrative about this guy can be wrong.

Now, as I say, I watched the full investigation. She found no evidence that Tommy Robinson was racist. She went and spoke to people who'd known him for a long time, people who'd previously worked with him. Fundamentally, she interviewed critics of him, but she still didn't find any evidence. However, I want to watch with you, Alex, her conclusions to this investigation, because despite finding no evidence, she still just decided to go with her gut feeling. Watch. I think it also behoves journalists to have a look at the claims that he is a political prisoner, that he is being treated differently because of how outspoken he has been about the Pakistani rape gangs

and other issues. I've had constant to's and fro's with people about Tommy Robinson. I've described him on television and in pieces that I've written in very derogatory and disparaging terms, because from my perspective, and I think this was reflected in the interview with Lucy Brown, I've always wondered to myself whether Tommy Robinson would have taken such an interest in the rape gangs if the

perpetrators weren't Pakistani. That point she makes about his now support for Andrew Tate doesn't really sit well with him proclaiming to be this sort of self-styled champion of working class women. I've similar suspicions about his support for Israel, because you could also argue that would he be supporting Israel so vociferously if Israel's opponents weren't Muslims? And that's where the problem lies. You know, is Tommy Robinson really a friend of women? I'm not really sure. I don't think so. Is Tommy Robinson really a friend of the Jews? I think the jury's out on that too. Is Tommy Robinson somebody who is self-promoting probably ultimately for his own gain? And I mean financial fame and otherwise, very probably. So while as a journalist,

I will always argue that the freedom of speech case should be heard. And actually, the one thing I have changed my mind on when it comes to Tommy Robinson, I had previously argued, in fact, I had this debate with Jordan Peterson himself last summer, I questioned the wisdom of him interviewing Tommy Robinson. And I discussed that in the studio with Kamal and Piers Morgan. And Piers Morgan made the very valid point that Elon Musk can just platform Tommy Robinson without questioning at all what he stands for. I mean, Alex, the first thing, well, I'm interested in your whole response, but I would just say very, very quickly,

the idea that he's doing this for fame and fortune, Alex, he is currently locked up in solitary. And by the way, will almost certainly have to declare himself bankrupt. Again, I am told so there's no fortune and his fame is coming at a great cost but but do you see what i mean that really even in her conclusions it was still just based on a gut feeling i don't think he likes women i don't think he likes the jews but zero evidence produced let's unpack that i haven't seen the documentary, by the way. I've

just seen that clip you've played there. So I just want to unpack what she has said, because some of it is true. OK, so in terms of, look, we know that the reason Tommy, so let's actually, let's go back to the first point about the fame and fortune. He started campaigning against the, you know, what was happening in Luton, where he grew up, because he saw it firsthand. He had a cousin who was groomed. He saw these gangs of extremists handing out leaflets, spitting on soldiers and memorial services to soldiers. And he tried to set up a petition, first of all, and then said, enough is enough. So he firsthand experienced the malign

activities of extremist muslim gangs in luton and that's what he stood up against as a result of doing that before his time if you will and being successful at doing that and actually getting a lot of attention and people listening to him and therefore getting attacked he kind of has no choice he can't go back into a normal life now. Can you imagine him coming out of prison and going, oh, do you know what? I'm just going to be a painter decorator. It's gone now. He's got to do this, right? Society has forced him into a position where he's got to be Tommy Robinson and not Stephen Yaxley Lennon. He cannot go back now. Society's not going to let him. So first of all, that is what I would say. We know that this came about

from a heartfelt, organic, circumstantial conviction that he saw what was going on, and he wanted to go out and fight this problem. And the problem in Luton was with Islamism. Okay, so that's true. Now, what Camilla then says is, but I, you know, is he standing up for working class women and other topics? Or is he just doing it because it's muslims well no he's fighting islamism he's not wearing a t-shirt saying i'm a feminist he's not pretending to i don't know why we're even having a trial of tommy robinson about whether he is working on behalf of working class women he's not he's campaigning against islamism That's what he's always been doing. He's not even trying to tell us. I care about women so much so that I want to also ban pornography.

I also want to make sure that, you know, X, Y and Z. He's never said he's doing that. So I don't even understand why that is like being picked over. And then when it comes to the whole racism thing, we have this problem in this country that we still attribute culture to race um where we know full well that you know there are plenty of black people brown people yellow people who are more british than you and me put together right um who probably have pictures of the queen on their wall afternoon tea love britain sing god save the queen louder than anybody else um and then you've got a plenty plenty way too many white woke liberal people in metro metropolises who actually seem to want to associate and augment and lord um you know muslim communities or foreign communities more than britain they hate britain

so they're not patriots just because they got white skin and were born and bred here they hate this country so this whole idea that now tommy robinson is this talking earlier about you know reform uk rupert low um the candidate for run corn and whether she went to this refugees welcome thing we have this desire for everyone to be absolutist all the time well if tommy robinson's going to stand up against grooming gangs he better be a bloody feminist and hate all these other things if you really support women's safety you should also fight against no he doesn't he just fights against grooming gangs let him get on with that you know it's the same way as did Sarah what am I saying I can't remember

her name Sarah Pochin the candidate for run for wants to go to refugees well maybe she did three years ago I don't care as long as she didn't want to go and you know stand on the cliffs of Dover and clap them in now you know absolutism letting perfection be the enemy of good is such a problem we seem to have so I don't even understand why we're making Tommy Robinson stand trial for all these other things. He is here to fight against the more pernicious and dangerous elements of Islam. That's it.

That's got nothing to do with what skink will you have. One of the biggest Islamic terrorists in Kenya who did the bombing of the Westgate Centre, the big shopping centre, was white. She was British born. It was a woman. She's known as the white widow. You know, it doesn't, all these other stupid things, identity politics, we wrap everything up in today. It's just ridiculous and static and vacuous. It's got no purpose. So in response to all of that, no, I don't.

If Tommy Robinson also thinks Andrew Tate's OK, fine. I completely disagree with him on that. I think Andrew Tate's grim. But does he think there's a problem with grooming gangs? Yes, he does. Do I agree with that? Yes, I do. I mean, he doesn't have to sort of see the world entirely the way I see it. No one does. Alex Phillips, stand by because in just one minute, we are going to react to this fascinating blockbuster new interview from Liz Truss, the former prime minister who speaks up for the so-called rioters after Southport, who reveals that the Muslim rape gang scandal is still ongoing, and perhaps most importantly, talks about how the British bashing corporation, the BBC, is part of covering

it up. It really is a fascinating blockbuster interview. We're going to take you through it in just one minute, so don't go anywhere. But first, long winter nights don't always mean better sleep. They often mean worse. Shorter days, less sunlight and cold weather throws your melatonin levels off, but taking a melatonin supplement isn't the answer. Melatonin supplements contain doses that are way higher than what the body naturally produces, leaving you feeling groggy in the morning. They also interfere with your body's ability to regulate its own melatonin production, making you dependent on it, as it'll be harder to sleep without it. It can also help you fall asleep, but not stay asleep throughout the night. This is why I take Evening Bean, a brand new product from Verso. After three years of perfecting

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on your first order. Drive evening bean tonight and wake up feeling refreshed tomorrow. That's evening.ver.so forward slash outspoken and use the coupon code outspoken at checkout to save 15%. But now back to the show. Breaking right now, Liz Truss, the former prime minister of the UK, has given her most explosive interview yet, revealing that the grooming gang scandal continues. It's been covered up by the British bashing corporation and even in a first for a British politician speaking up for the folk who were so horrified by Axel Rudicabana and the cover-up surrounding the Southport terror attack that there probably was a reason why they became so-called rioters. Watch. We're seeing a rising movement in Britain.

We now have, for the first time ever, I think, tractors in Westminster and Whitehall because the farmers are so angry. We had people rioting because of the failure to deal properly with the appalling terrorist attack in Southport. You are seeing the emergence, I think, of a movement of very frustrated people. Watching along with me is Alex Phillips, the sub-stacker of That's What She Said, former Brexit Party MEP. Alex, before I get you to weigh in, I want to show you the moment that trust reveals the Muslim rape gang scandal is is ongoing you can't let their children be raped and killed and then ignore it cover it up and then go and use the state against that person that parent or that person in the community that's like, hey, guys, I'm fine with a lot of stuff,

but not killing my children or raping our children. I don't I'm glad to hear you say that the average person, would you believe it's the average person in in England? It knows what's going on. And it's like, I don't know what to do yet. But people are horrified absolutely horrified by what has happened and you know we are talking about tens of thousands of girls being raped as young as 11 and 12 and being tortured because that's what happened and some of them being killed this is what's been going on and isn't star wasn't starmer somehow another part of that cover he was he was the director of public prosecutions.

And what has happened has just not been investigated. And what we know is we know that there was collusion with the police. So we've now seen police officers being arrested for being involved in the crimes themselves. We know that local councils and local councillors covered it up. And we know that Labour politicians in particular turned a blind eye. And they're still refusing to have a national inquiry into what has happened. And I understand that this is still going on, that these crimes are still being perpetrated. In fact, some of the original people that are jailed have now been let out of prison.

Alex Phillips, is the former Prime Minister Liz Truss right that there are Pakistani Muslim rape gangs still committing their heinous crimes even now? I'd imagine yes. I've got no evidence to say one way or the other, but I'd be absolutely astonished if they suddenly all had a mass sort of change of heart and mass lobotomy that they don't want to perpetrate these crimes when they have been so well embedded within their communities and covered up by their communities do we think all of a sudden this no longer happens I think that's for the birds I think without a doubt this is still taking place and worse and things that would make your skin crawl even more and Liz Truss is absolutely brilliant you know talking about people who have had Damascene prophecies and people who have sort of made huge transitions in political life and people that I was wrong about and have changed my mind about, Liz Truss is exactly that.

Liz Truss started off her life as a Lib Dem. In fact, during the Brexit referendum, she supported Remain, whereas you couldn't find someone right now more right wing and more convicted about it more ideologically driven more certain of those beliefs and even more courageous about standing up for them than Liz Truss you know hell hath no fury like the person who suddenly had the scales fall away from their eyes and goes oh my god um and i think she's absolutely wonderful during the leadership elections i can't remember being a big trust site i can't remember having much uh particular love for either candidate when it was between sunak and trust but now i'm a huge trust convert she is brilliant i mean she is formidable and brave And I've had the privilege to get to know her personally. She's hilarious and mischievous and passionate and is built on belief. And so good on her standing up as former

prime minister and really banging the drum on this and banging the drum on an international stage. Because when the rest of the world held up that mirror to England, we knew about those grooming gangs 10 years ago we'd done nothing about it we were too lily-livered and sheepish when i say we i'm actually saying they not any of us watching this i'm pretty sure that doesn't include us but um the country as a whole didn't do anything about it it was too worried about upsetting certain communities and it let the most unspeakable acts be perpetrated when you read some of the reports about what happened to some of those victims now i don't know how much i can

say on here how that's going to affect you know whether you're going to be dragged off youtube kicking and screaming but no it's fine we're outspoken right like we learned of um particular devices being put inside one girl's rectum to expand it as much as possible so then there could be multiple acts of penetration um we learned of a girl who went missing it's believed she was churned up into kebab meat i mean when you read the transcripts of these crimes, this isn't just some pervy taxi drivers fiddling with a girl behind like, you know, a school building. It's sick. It's the things you can imagine. It is. And what I think. Yeah. understands now why these issues are so often cover up or suppressed in the mainstream media, because she knows the tactics of the media that were a huge part, by the way, of her defenestration.

And so in this next section, she talks about how important Elon Musk is for standing up to Starmer, but then reveals how the BBC, our state broadcaster, the British bashing corporation, are part of the rape gang scandal cover-up. Elon Musk, who I see as the leader of the opposition in Britain, to be honest, he's the one taking on Keir Starmer more than anybody who's actually in Britain at the moment. But the problem is the way the media operate

is they then have wall-to-wall coverage on other issues. So when some of the horrors of what had been done to these girls were coming out in the media, the BBC reported on spat with elon musk so they weren't talking about what happened to the victims they were talking about a spat with elon musk and the number one story was the la fires now of course we all care about the la fires but there's a deliberate attempt to push and suppress things down the news agenda so it's not like they don't ever talk about it it's just suppressed and so people move on and they think

about something else and that is what has happened is that what's happened alex yeah so much editorializing especially when it comes to broadcasting, is editorialising via exemption. You know, it's not talking about things instead of how you talk about those things. And I've seen this immediately. What happened with the van that drove into people outside of King's College in London the other day? I actually don't know, because the story just disappeared down the path maybe well they they said it wasn't terrorism but they said it wasn't um you know someone apparently was high on drugs or something drives it but i know someone who goes to that uh that that university and said you couldn't accidentally drive and also we don't know who we don't know anything about the driver

alex we don't know their ethnicity for example of know anything about the driver, Alex. We don't know their ethnicity, for example. Of course. And this is what I'm saying. When it's convenient to not talk about something, it just disappears. OK, so here's a prime example. I know so much more about so many more people on this planet Earth than I know about that bespectacled little weirdo who tried to shoot Trump. I don't even know his name i can't even name is normally you would have newspapers covering for months and months and months pages and pages that these were his school friends this is the house he grew up in we've spoken to his former teachers who said he was a weirdo he used to collect nazi

memorabilia whatever it may be i couldn't even tell you what he's bloody called, Dan. And he tried to assassinate the president. He almost managed. And same with, you know, there are so many things like this. I remember when there was that weird Las Vegas shooting where all of a sudden there was like a sort of, you know, country and Western concert or something. And then someone with all these arms in a hotel room starts firing at the crowds and you know loads and loads of people were shot and it just disappeared from the news agenda no discussion this is what broadcast does you see it a lot with the terror attacks in Germany

Germany's now facing terror attacks at a rate of almost one a month you know it's absolutely hideous statistically when you look at it. Every single time there's some sort of, you know, mass stabbing in Germany. Guess what? We don't report it in the UK. It just doesn't seem to trickle into our news agenda. So so much editorialising being done by the media is not covering things. And I think that one of the reasons when you're showing the would-be assassin of Trump there, the not covering of him, it just whiffs. Lord knows who or what was going on behind that assassination attempt. That little spotty kid was not just doing it alone. He didn't just

like have a fucking afternoon off school, sorry to spoil that, an afternoon off school and think, I'm going to go down to a rally and try and kill a president there's bigger stuff at play here without a doubt but when it comes to other things especially when it comes to terror attacks or things that involve community relations let's say I think there's this sort of sense of responsibility that broadcasters or people who lead in the media think if we give this all the heat that it deserves it's going to cause heat that it deserves, it's going to cause conflagration in society, it's going to cause outrage, it's going to cause civic unrest. It probably would. I think if most people out there had even one iota of a clue of what's going on, and you know, what the impact of the untrammeled levels of immigration as meant to the country, the sort of crimes,

if they knew statistically, when you look at all crimes, not just crimes against women happening in society and who's behind all of it and fraud and all the rest of it, I think people would be a lot more peeved than they are at present and they would be demonstrating on the streets. And I think that there is this sense of sort of warped public responsibility of journalists, and especially broadcast journalists and the state broadcaster, where they think we don't want to fan the flames. It might be ugly out there, but if we don't talk about it, maybe it won't get uglier. Yes, indeed. And so, Alex, we have to think about solutions to this, though, don't we? Because if we just go on without creating an independent

media ecosystem, which obviously we are both trying to do, and that is why we are here, but unless it gets bigger in the United Kingdom, then we will fail. Because what changed in the US? The creation of an independent media ecosystem. What I love about what Liz Truss is doing is that she understands that. So let's have a look at her explanation of what's going on. And thank you, by the way, for a little mention of me. Do you have, because you don't have, like talk rad has never existed, that I understand, over in England. Do you have enough outside media that can challenge the monstrosity of the BBC? Not at present. And if you look at the stats, 68% of people in Britain get their information from the BBC.

So it's still very dominant because it's funded by a poll tax on the people of Britain. And because it's free to air and it's free online, people use it. So there are developing. So we are seeing the development of independent media so people like dan wootton who've left gb news now has his own show there are there's a growing there's a growing movement but i think we're considerably behind uh the us and the is, we have a regulator called Ofcom that not only regulates broadcast media, they're also regulating online content. And appallingly, this piece of legislation was put through under a conservative government. Unbelievable. Shame, shame. And Liz has a bit of a plan in terms of how that independent media ecosystem can be developed in the UK.

There are people who are out there doing things differently. But what I am working on, which we want to launch this summer, is a new free speech media network that will be targeted at Europe. The UK will also be available over here to actually tell the truth to people, because I cannot tell you how frustrated people in Britain are. They're so angry about the media. And when I was campaigning in the election, there would be constant complaints on the doorstep that they weren't being told the truth and that things were being presented in a way that was completely false. I mean, everything from the grooming gangs

to climate change and net zero to political issues. And people are being put in jail for things that they have posted on social media. That is true. That is true. It is happening. And Alex, if we had a stronger independent media, and I guess this is the point you were making, maybe there would be more pushback because most people still don't know that someone like Lucy Connolly remains in prison because of a post on X.

Yeah, no, exactly. We have been, actually, strangely, we've been a lot better than America when it comes to our written journalism. America is very tied up to leftism in its newspapers. We've actually had a lot more courage when it comes to right-wingery, when it comes to our written press. But when you look at the characters America's got from Jake Bosobiec, Charlie Kirk, you know, Steve Bannon, then you look at Joe Rogan, you look at, you know, it's basically you alone at this stage. So what Liz is proposing is fascinating. And I think it really does sound like, A, what we need, but B, it sounds inevitable anyway, because very often things start in America, and we're just a few years behind them. And without a doubt, we do need to start thinking of ways we can emancipate

people from the straight jacketing of the sort of editorialization by exemption of legacy media um and so i think our project sounds fascinating i'd love to learn more me too it sounds very very exciting and uh loving your independent work alex of course that's what she said is the sub stack. Thank you so much for your company. I would also recommend, and actually I can show you a couple of pictures. Actually, I was at the Thatcher Freedom Festival over the course of the week. And there were a couple of other great folk in the independent space that in that previous one, you saw Maya Tusi. He's doing brilliant stuff with Tusi TV. Also my friends allison pearson and francis or there

and danielle who who's my fiance and on my uh panel was the brilliant andre walker who's also doing great stuff and david campbell bannerman who's the head of the Freedom Association. But yes, we are. Look, we had great fun. Look at that. That's a true Thatcher supporter. And my goodness, we need a Thatcher. And that there's my little, that's my little pin, my little Thatcher pin. So big up the independent media, Alex Phillips. Thank you so much for your company today.

And the feedback is rolling in from you, especially on this issue of reform uk and the bots okay let's get to it james black says nigel farage is what we call mittens here in the us he flip-flops like a pair of string together mittens on a toddler uh mark says not bots thousands of us only click the heart button on x spartacus writes reform is the right party unfortunately nigel is not the right leader uh civy says Sivi says, oh, sorry, something on my phone was just making a noise. No idea why. Wanda64, sorry, says, Nigel dismissing mass deportations and his chairman using hurty words lawfare is what is making many of us leave reform. Jennifer Shrub says Rupert Lowe is going to knock Nigel off his perch. Rupert is a gentleman who doesn't stab you in the back.

Rupert is going to be PM. And Legend of Merce says there is no way for somebody outside of Twitter to accurately geolocate the location of any account on Twitter. That is not part of the APIupert Lowe. And I don't think it's Bott. And I think actually that's the playbook of the left, isn't it? That is the playbook of the left. Okay. Union Jackass time. Your nominees, Thomas Woldby, nominated by It's Only Me 44. He is, of course, the chief executive of Heathrow, who, by the way, didn't even bother to stay overnight when all hell was breaking loose and the airport had to be shut down for 24 hours because of his nut zero madness. foster, in part because even though she's been in Ethiopia on a taxpayer-funded trip, which means we paid, she wanted to swan off for her own little private safari until the Snivel's servants had to

tell her, that's not how this works, Deputy PM. And nominee three from Mother Clanger is Stephanie Mander, the head teacher at Norwood Primary in Eastleigh. And this head teacher has scrapped the school's Easter celebrations. In a letter to parents, she acknowledged that the decision was controversial and will leave many people disappointed. But she said the move aligns with our values of inclusivity and respect for diversity. Well, you know what? F you. Seriously, we are a Christian country, and we celebrate Easter. An absolutely despicable decision. So let me get to the results. And this is a really interesting one today. In third place, Thomas Welby, the Heathrow CEO with 8% of the vote. In 31%, the runner-up, Angela Rayner, the Deputy Prime Minister for Ethiopia Trip. And so many of you seem to share my anger

with Stephanie Mander, the head teacher who has made the inexplicable and disgusting decision to cancel Easter. Greatest Britain now nominated by Big Mama Booth and it's Gwyneth Paltrow. This is a surprising one but she says it's for some classy roasting of the Skidmarkle's cooking efforts and that is a perfectly timed Greatest Britain because join us right now on the after show. I'm teaming up with the Royal News Network as we do on Mondays. You can do so at www.outspoken.live.

And I'm going to tell you all about this video from Ms. Paltrow and the response from Meghan Markle the row has just exploded into the public domain it really is quite something I am back with you tomorrow 5 p.m UK time midday eastern 9am pacific to actually is it still that time now let me check I'm just going to check on my international clock because no it is sorry let me correct that it is 5 p.m uk time 1 p.m eastern and 10 a.m pacific i'm sorry my apologies it's because we're still in this annoying period when we haven't in the uk changed over daylight so i mean that's why there's that one hour discrepancy so 5 p.m uk time uh 10 a.m pacific 1 p.m eastern i think right i really struggle uh with the whole time difference

thing and we've got two of our favorites back tomorrow lalani dowdine and june slater on the superstar panel so make sure you hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or Rumble and you will be alerted to our live episodes if you turn on the notification bell. Most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you.