Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE FURY AFTER ZIA YUSUF RETURNED TO REFORM UK FOLLOWING SHOCKING THREAT TO DAILY MAIL

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

et 20% off + free shipping with the code Outspoken at https://manscaped.com  What is the truth behind Nigel Farage’s capitulation to ex-Reform UK Chairman Zia Yusuf after he made a threat to go public to the Daily Mail? Dan is joined by his Superstar Panel: Ex-UKIP star Steven Woolf, who was also forced out by Farage, and Connor Tomlinson of Tomlinson Talks, a senior contributor for Courage Media. PLUS: Outrage after LBC’s Shelagh Fogarty mocks Tommy Robinson after being kicked out of Hawksmoor steakhouse in an international free speech row. AND: Dominic Cummings has offered to dedicate the resources of the Vote Leave team to make Tom Skinner Mayor and boot Sadiq Khan from office. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW:  Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wood and this is a special Hot Topics edition of Outspoken. And of course, with the Reform UK Civil War going in so many directions, I had to bring two of the most qualified people to discuss this. Stephen Wolf, for the first time on Outspoken, he is of course a lawyer, commentator, writer, global immigration expert, and director for the Center for Migration and Prosperity. Also though, in terms of this conversation,

a former UKIP big bod who fell out with Nigel Farage. And Connor Tomlinson is here fresh off his exclusive interview with Rupert Lowe. He is of course the host of Tomlinson talks on YouTube and a contributor to Courage Media. Also coming up on the show today, what does the Tommy Robinson vs Hawkesmore row mean? For whether political figures on the right in the UK are going to be welcome in a whole load of establishments? Why are Reform UK, specifically Richard Tice, turning off this idea propagated by Matt Goodwin that Britain is to become a minority white country in just four decades. And how do we deal with the growing war on white British young men, which has become especially prevalent after the explosion of the Netflix drama Adolescence. There is no uncancelled after show today, but don't worry, we do return next week. So if you want to sign up to watch, just head to my sub stack www.outspoken.live,

enter your email address there, hit the subscribe button, sub stack, a free speech platform. And of course it is the most important way to communicate directly with me. We're part of a community there, but actually most critically, save me from big tech cancellation, which trust me in this space today is a real risk. www.outspoken.live. But now, let's go. But now, let's go! Connor Tomlinson, Stephen Wolf, so brilliant to have you on the Superstar panel today. We've got lots of hot topics to get to, but Stephen, this is your first time on the show.

I obviously was playing some of your videos last week looking into this whole Reform UK civil war, so it's absolutely brilliant that you're actually here for the first time. I should say as well, a new host at Lotus Eaters too, so I'm very, very grateful that you've given up your time today. But of course you have a very personal view, an up close view of what it's like to work with Nigel Farage. What did you make of this hokey-cokey going on over the weekend with Zia Youssef, seemingly the only man that Nigel Farage is prepared to forgive and welcome back to the fold with open arms? What do you think is the truth behind what's going on there? So thanks Dan for having me. It's really, and I'm loving your show anyway. I know, I know they haven't been on it before, but I watch and I know lots of my friends do.

And the reason why we do so is because many of us are concerned about where we are in the country and we need open, free speaking individuals. And that is one reason why people believed in Nigel Farage and believed in reform. But what we're seeing at the moment, if you look across X, you talk to people as I do fairly regularly. This debacle between firing him or rather having him resign one minute for not backing one of his MPs over a really important question to ask

over whether we should have burqas in the UK and then bringing him back in and then tweeting how how he's almost like a limb to Nigel, sends really deeply concerning messages on a number of fronts to people. The first question that most people are asking is what is it that Zia has over Nigel? Why is it that Nigel has quite easily get rid of lots of people and most recently Rupert Lowen? I'm sure Connor's going to talk about that. But what is it that's keeping him there? Is he that brilliant? Is he that great just because he was able to create a concierge company that he sold so financially beneficial for himself? Or is it that he's got this capability of working with

individuals and yet you see many channels of people saying he's abrasive, he's not great. And even Aaron Banks saying on one tweet, just as he's gone, that no one individual can help grow reform in a big way. And then in the next tweet saying, oh, he's integral to the helping dog. So I think the first question is, what has he got over Nigel? And that's a very vital, important question to ask. It is. And no one is having that discussion and it needs to be had. And in fact, Conor Thomas, what was so disturbing to me over the weekend is the MSM, which is usually right

all over Reform UK, not when it comes to Zia Youssef. It was just like nothing to see here, no story. Let's pretend like there's no issue. The BBC was very honest, Dan, about the fact that the term racist or Islamophobic is just an extortion racket to turn parties into either exactly what the Uniparty would like them to be or to sink their chances at being an insurgent populist force because the first article after Zia Youssef resigned that was a BBC editorial said, Reform is now going to struggle to attract ethnic minority voters and Muslim voters considering the population is growing and they will be perceived to be racist because their highest profile ethnic minority candidate or member of the party has stepped down and disparaged

them in such a way and it's like, right, okay, so you guys are just admitting that you are going to say reform needs a Muslim chairman otherwise we're going to keep calling you racist. Do they want a Muslim chairman? That's the better question. Why did Nigel Farage reinstate Zia Youssef in some role that isn't the chairmanship? Well I think that can be answered by the fact that he made the error of making him co-director. Because as we all saw with Faraj's post-Yusuf resignation interview on GB News, he still disparaged Ben Habib, Rupert Lowe, and anyone who would criticise Zia Yousuf leading up to his resignation or even that afternoon as being misled by Indian bots or just being members of the alt-right, which means white nationalists, which is pretty confusing for Ben Habib to be, I suppose, but anywho. But Faraj, on the interview, was very complimentary about Zia Yousuf, only said thank you, lamented the fact that he wasn't there.

And it seems to be the reason he didn't fall out with them is because Zia Yousuf holds as much power and influence over reform in a legal sense as Nigel Faraj does. And so that interview on GB News seemed to be a, please don't screw us over on your way out the door and they seem to have got a no from Zia Yousif on that so they've given him a comfortable job with even more autonomy, the ability to present himself as a spokesperson for reform on interviews as he did this morning on BBC Radio 4 and complete control over his staff while presumably keeping him far away from things like GDPR data and donors. Yes and I believe my understanding at least from my reporting over the weekend, is they

also keep quiet. You keep quiet, there's a safe seat for you before the next election, and there's a seat around the cabinet table. Because, Stephen Wilf, there was a threat delivered by ZIU.sef. Again, this has been completely ignored. Andrew Pearce, who actually started this whole row in the Daily Mail with his interview with Rupert Lowe, which was designed as some type of challenge to Nigel Farage before the local elections, reported on Friday that Yusuf was already plotting revenge, saying that he felt angry and humiliated, and his column went on to say, and mark my words, this will not be the last we hear from him. And from my understanding of this, Stephen Wolf, the clear threat, and I'm going to use that word threat, was that

Zia Youssef would have publicly condemned Reform UK as Islamophobic and racist. That was the warning shot provided via the Daily Mail. And Nigel Farage, who did want Youssef out, and we'll come to that in one moment, but he just couldn't countenance that because he believes it would be so damaging for him in the mainstream media. And yeah, you're right, Jan. And that's that was very clearly a threat. It's no one's no one has really picked that up of them yourself. And I think that's a really important point and feeds into two aspects, one that Connor has just identified, which is the reason too, where I link

in that there's something over Nigel and over reform, is that the fact that he still owns not only the company but the holding company means that company has not only the shares but it owns the rights to the name of reform, it owns the rights to all the anything to do with the political party, but also then gives him political pressure to say that you're getting rid of a Muslim. And the other thing that we do know in the fundraising that's been happening, we've seen the articles in the press

about people from Lebanon and other Muslims that are saying that we are supporting Nigel Farage, we've put hundreds of thousand pounds into the party of Nigel Farage and we're Muslims as well So that would therefore become incredibly damaging Financially, I think to reform if suddenly Zia is saying that you reform have got rid of me because they are a racist party They don't like Muslims and therefore you should remove your money too. So you've got three different categories now of distinct pressure on Nigel other than the hidden things of what else you might have about him.

Because don't forget they've been working really closely as company directors and shareholders from the Brexit days. So they will know the intricacies of how this company has worked, what's organized behind it, what the lawyers have been saying, as well as the politics. 100%. 100%. And I mean, Tim Montgomery took real issue to the fact that I spoke about Zia Youssef's plan to recruit thousands of Muslims to the Parsi. That is just a fact. I wasn't actually saying that that is necessarily a bad thing. But Conor Thomas and I did watch Carl Benjamin

of Lotus Eaters over the weekend say that he believes most Reform UK members are opposed to Zia Yousaf's influence on the party because he's Muslim. Do you agree? ALICE Yes. I think that as we said last time, Dan, Zia Youssef has a vegan at the barbecue effect on immigration and Islam, and he seems to have come out this morning on an interview with Nick Robinson and said, yeah, sure, we can ban the burqa in public places. But that seems to be only after his arm has been twisted after the fallout where he called Sarah Pochans question dumb, which was the second MP that he attacked for being hard on immigration and Islam. Remember, Rupert

Lowe, mass deportations, querying things about the Pakistani grooming gangs, there seems to be a pattern here. I think the major problems are now twofold. The reform has shown that it is vulnerable to accusations of racism and Islamophobia, which the mainstream media and their political opponents will always level at them to throw them off track or to contort them into the kind of indistinguishable party for themselves that their goals are achieved anyway. Second part as well is over-reliance on Muslim funders means that they will be reluctant to criticise the tribal, indigestible, incompatible elements of Islam. We should be under no obligation to pretend that Islam is compatible with Britain and

we should be allowed to say we don't want our country governed by someone who believes in Islam or we don't want the insurgent populist party to have its chairman or an influential person in its cabinet to be someone who believes in Islam any more than we should want a communist chairman of Reform UK, by the way. And then the third thing now is that Reform has dented its credibility and again I will be accused of attacking the party and not wanting it to win just by saying this. But when you have people like Aaron Banks, who I like and admire, who come out one day and say good riddance, and the next day to say, you know, Zia Youssef is integral, it

makes it look like members of reform have to take a Soviet-esque party line to deny the things that they said only a day prior in order to stay in the camp. And look, I think many people are just not prepared to do that. No, well, I'm not. I'm not. And you know, I voted for Reform UK. I view myself as a critical friend. I actually have no personal issue with Nigel Farage. But Stephen Wolf, here is the issue, right? In April, in early April, I reported the fact that Farage wanted Youssef out. And he called me a liar for that report. Now, I obviously can't reveal my source seed, but trust me, it came from the most senior level within Reform UK. So they

wanted him out. And then after Youssef dropped off, as he did last week, the truth came out. Aaron Banks revealed the truth, Alex Phillips revealed the truth, Isabel Oakeshott revealed the truth, Calvin McKenzie revealed the truth, all of these people who were very pro-reform revealed the truth. And it is soviet-esque to now expect us to pretend that that never happened. And for people like Tim Montgomery to say that I'm talking nonsense is so intellectually dishonest because the reality is Farage did get his way. Yes, Youssef is still in the party, he has an influence, but

he is no longer chairman and Farage knew after the reporting of Rupert Lowe to the police he had to be out of that role. Well, he did have to be out of the role. I mean, there's more that Rupert is doing. We understand that he's issued his lawyers to look into the and look at libel cases. Preaction letter, yep. Yeah, and he's complained to the parliamentary estates as well over questions that were raised about him by MPs. So I think there's power there to Rupert and being able to challenge that. And so therefore, NIDIL needed to have some form of deflection and protection for the party. And so

if he engineered this, as many people are suggesting, then this is particularly one way of dealing with it. But I'm with Connor on this. I'm with Connor on the point that I'm concerned about the policy elements and the people that they're bringing into. We wanted reform to be a party that challenged the political elites and the establishments of the Uniparty by having a differential on policies and the way that we presented it to the people. And all this is now suggesting to us is that Zia has been shifted leftwards because of a way to protect the party, Nigel, or even just look like it's doing something. But at the end of the day, he's still got control of issues that are very vital to the way that

we move forward. And policy. Exactly. And we're not seeing much policy about it. He says he's now casual about banning the burka. I don't believe that for a minute, because at the end of the day, you have to see it in a policy document and people have to believe that you will do that. But it's also the way that the message is portrayed from those on the front benches. Will people who are MPs now be able to say this as often as they want or will they get their fingers wrapped for raising issues? I think Sarah will also have had words behind her. I know

that and Nigel will have definitely sat down and told her, don't do this again unless I tell you to do it.' ALICE Well the thing is, right, it was an ambush. It was an ambush. And the Reform Shields can say as much as they want that this wasn't planned, right? Richard Tice even made a video on X saying, oh big question to come at PMQs today. They knew what Sarah Pochran was going to say. They purposefully kept it from Zia Youssef. They wanted this blow up to happen. But then when Youssef made the threat that he did, that's when the backpedaling began.

But just a reminder, this was the question Sarah Pochran asked in front of Lee Anderson and Richard Tyson. I think even Farage was there, watch. Given the Prime Minister's desire to strengthen strategic alignment with our European neighbours, will he in the interests of public safety follow the lead of France, Denmark, Belgium and others, and ban the burqa? I welcome the Prime Minister to her place, but I am not going to follow her down that line. Now that she is here and safely in her place, perhaps she could tell her new party leader that his latest plan to bet £80 billion of unfunded tax cuts, he had no idea how he was going to pay for it, is Liz Truss all over again? Although considering I think she was a Conservative member when Liz Truss was leader, she probably

won't. So Conor, it was an ambush and I actually think that, for example, Tim Montgomery has been very naive when he believes Faraj saying, oh no, no, no, no, we loves here, we wanted him to stay in this job. Yeah, well Tim has himself expressed concerns about the role of Islam in politics. I have heard him do that, so it's now rather hypocritical of him to act like anyone who suggests that Zia Youssef has undue influence over policy in this direction Islamophobic. A tad disingenuous. As are lots of people, frankly, on Twitter and the like, who have slavishly and sycophantically suggested that one, oh it was great to have you, Zia, even though he basically like farted and then let the lift doors close behind him by saying getting a reform government as elected is a bad use of my time, seems he's changed his tune there.

They all said, oh it's great having you, Zia, I'm sad to see you go, and then a couple of days later have adopted the line that Tyson and Farrell just trotted out, which says that any criticism of Zia is racist and Islamophobic. It's like, guys, you're boxing yourselves in, you're putting yourselves into a pen that means that you're vulnerable to the exact same charges of the mainstream media that have sunk and swum other parties before. And what should have happened, really, if you were a smart political operator, is you should have celebrated Sarah Pochyn's question, if he was here, Yusuf, you should have said she nailed Kyrstammer to the wall, she pointed out the fact that he's reliant on tribalistic Islamic voters as a constituent bloc that are hemorrhaging themselves to the Muslim vote

and independent candidates like Andan Hussein who sat behind her and rolled his eyes because someone dared to bring up something other than Gaza for once and the fact that Liz Truss remains rent-free in Keir Stammer's head and he's obsessed with that like sort of like a Regina George from Mean Girls moment why are you so obsessed with me when everyone outside of SW1 doesn't give a hoot and are actually more concerned about the economic and cultural costs including Islam of immigration. 100% and we know that the trouble this country in was not caused by Liz Truss. We know that. So Stephen Wolf, look, you are used constantly as an example by Rupert Lowe of a high profile political figure who Nigel Farage felt threatened by and jettisoned. Is that a fair interpretation of what happened to you within UKIP?

And why is it that Nigel, who is such a force, you know, who's such a household name, why is it that he feels so threatened by people around him? You're right. I mean, certainly when I was asked, actually, oddly enough, to stand for the leadership by people within Nigel's team, I now realize that the only reason that they did that the first time around was to ensure that I was up there so that they could knock me down and create sort of kind of barriers in my place from ever succeeding who they really wanted, which was Paul Nussell at the time. And the reason for that is very clear.

Nigel may well be a fantastic orator and certainly is able and capable of working the mainstream media. I don't think he's as good at being able to work with anyone outside of the mainstream media because we see through him in so many ways. But his point is that he's not willing or able to accept other individuals to be by his side

and push that message of any great strength. He lacks the capability of any strong leader to work towards someone who has a capability of taking the party on from himself. And that's a level of sad narcissism about it. It's the failure of somebody who worked in the city who says that we want to have people who are capable and great to be able to move on after our businesses

when our CEO has gone. He's not willing to do that. And that only then points down to the fact that he wants to be seen as the only person who got Brexit done. He wants to be called Mr. Brexit. He wants to be the individual that could only take on the other political parties.

And that is not how the other political parties. And that is not how you build a team. Who is sensible enough now, who's a good character, a good individual, say within the Conservative Party, might feel that they don't want to sit in that position anymore, go and join reform. Will Liz trust? Will Egenric, for example? None of them are going to do so, because they know that if you're capable, you're going to be jettisoned in some way as Rupert Lowe has done recently. Indeed. And do you rule out a return to the political fold? I mean, if it's true that Rupert's going to launch maybe like a new version of the Integrity Party with Ben Habib, like, would you be interested?

I certainly wouldn't say no to either of those two individuals. And the reason why is because both of them are not only articulate and strong willed in terms of their belief and desire to help Britain get back on its feet, to solve the issues that we have, challenge the elites on difficult questions that we're talking about on different days. But also more importantly, they're not doing it because of their own narcissistic reasons. They don't need to, they're financially wealthy enough.

They could step out of this at any particular time. They're doing this because of a genuine belief that they want to help the country. And they've got a level of integrity about them, which I believe can build an authentic, patriotic people's party that does challenge those in the uni parties. And so if they were willing to consider me, I'd certainly be there. If not, then I'll be backing them and supporting them from all the ways.

Developing today, a growing crisis for the steak chain Hawksmoor, after its decision to boot out a peaceful Tommy Robinson from its restaurant seemingly for absolutely no reason has gone viral around the world, turning in to a PR nightmare for the chain. So here's a reminder of that moment where Robinson, who by the way, had just finished his court appearance, was dining with friends, there was seemingly nothing wrong going on within the restaurant, no drinking, anything like that. Here's what happened when the manager told them to leave. What's that? Your members are stark uncomfortable sir. Is it because of the colour of my skin? No, no, no. Is it because of the colour of this skin?

We like to look after our people, as I'm sure you can understand. Our CEO Will, if you've got any questions about him, you can email him directly. Don't worry about his first round of drinks, it's on me. I'm very sorry, I hope it's on you. Do we worry about the photo? Hold on, hold on. Get another one. We've been kicked out of the steak house.

Fucking hell. Have you seen that? Have you seen that? We've just been kicked out of the steak house. We've sat here for a fucking hour. This is the important fucking problem. We sat here with the celebrities. Fucking hell.

They're uncomfortable comfortable with serving them. Now this was the worst case of damage control from Hawksmoor ever, because they released a statement on X claiming, this was not about politics or beliefs. Hawksmoor is not a political organisation, we're a group of restaurants we want to welcome in as many people as possible. We're not trying to engage in a public debate. But of course,

that is absolutely what has happened. This issue has caught fire. Tommy Robinson, as we discussed on the show yesterday, has released a documentary on YouTube, which is going viral at the moment. And indeed, I mean, even my post about this, I just wrote, I used to love your restaurants because I did, I loved Hawksmoor. And I said, never again, we're meant to be a free country, you're adding to the tyranny. Shame on you. And I looked down 10 million views, 60,000 likes. So I think this has been a catastrophic business decision for Hawksmoor. It's not like Tommy Robinson was advertising the fact he was in there. But let me bring my superstar panel in now, Connor Tomlinson

and Stephen Wolf. Stephen, the problem with this and why I completely support Tommy turning this into his new campaign, Boycott Hawksmoor, is where does this end? Are we going to be in a situation where we feel on the political right that we could be kicked out of an establishment at any point? And I do hear about it happening. Someone was telling me that it happens with Darren Grimes quite regularly around Newcastle. He just gets booted out of venues. This is wrong. It is and it's about the extension of the political left being able to isolate those who have a different view to them like ourselves.

And it doesn't just step to those who are going into restaurants, which I think is a more egregious way of dealing with it. Those who, like myself, have lost jobs as a lawyer, not being able to go as a member of the bar in a certain chambers because people didn't like my views on immigration, just as I was about to join other political barristers and solicitors who've lost their jobs. So this is about removing us from work, removing us from the public sphere. As you said, you're warned about being cancelled at any time, as we know that can happen on social media. And then now we've got in terms of restaurants and food places. And I think this is a real depth of the tyranny that's being created in our country, not just legalistically, when we hear,

as we did over the weekend, that Prevent UK will say that you're a terrorist for just even considering that high levels of immigration are bad. And therefore, we've now got a situation in this country where we're being attacked in every sector of our lives. And this is not how this country was. It's not how the country should be.

And we need to fight back even more determinedly than we are. And that's why I think Tommy Robinson has got the right idea to campaign against a company like Hawksmoor. Yeah, I mean, he posted on this, Connor Tomlinson. How can you say it's not political when your staff or guests issue could only have been with my political views? I'll be honest though, I don't believe it. Your staff were great, other patrons were taking photos with us and shaking our hands, so this version just doesn't stack up. There's a lot more video footage to come out which blows this statement apart. We're working on the whole story now.

But the most worrying thing for me, if there was a group of Islamic extremists in there, you wouldn't have asked them to leave. It's only ever people that are easy to discriminate against that get discriminated against and that's got to stop. Everyone's bored of this woke ideology, but either way, restaurants and businesses should not be political. We weren't loud, aggressive or inappropriate, so this can only be politics. Not only that, but it wasn't just me you unfairly asked to leave, it was my friends and colleagues too.

While I've asked for a conversation, let's talk and address the issues together rather than you putting out nonsense statements and making it worse. And just to be sure, this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your mum writes for the Daily Mail. And that's in reference to the mother of the chief executive, Will Beckett, having previously written food articles for the Daily Mail. Now, I actually probably don't think the mum is involved in this, Conor Thomas, and I just think this was a political decision which has so clearly backfired and Hawksmoor now look ridiculous. Yeah, I want to say credit to Gurmit Singh on the background of the video there for taking it in good humour because, you know, when you're midway through your oysters course and you get slung out on your

ear it's not exactly the best scenario is it? But in terms of Hawksmoor, yeah, the idea that this is a non-political act is a bit like saying, well, Pontius Pilate washing his hands of things, handing Barabbas over to the crowd and letting Christ go off to Golgotha wasn't a political act because he refused to make a decision, right? He was just trying to appease all sides. No, every act is a political act. What you tolerate is itself political. And so if you're going to have the standard of tolerating all customers regardless of their political views, one, you're more likely to have a more

thriving and prosperous business. But two, you then can't position yourself as taking the opposite, which is selectively discriminating against high profile political individuals and kicking them out on their ear. And then say, well, it wasn't about politics. I mean, if Robinson were working for a charity, for example, and they would have stung them out. This would obviously be a political act, and people would be up and up for it. It's just because Robinson himself is a notable figure and therefore controversial divides opinion that people fall on factional sides on this.

As far as businesses go, yeah, they should be allowed to discriminate as to which customers they want, but then they can't pretend that they're not doing the discrimination along ideological lines. So the bare-faced cheek of them trying to get out of this PR disaster is probably what's turned a lot more people against them than just discriminating against Robinson in the first place. I think they could have saved themselves a headache and just let him have his meal and go about his way.

Yeah, I mean that is the irony in all of this Stephen Wolf, that actually this has just been a complete PR disaster for Hawke's War now. It is most famous as a result of this decision for booting Tommy Robinson out of a restaurant. And I hope that provides a warning shot to every other establishment up and down the country, all across the world that are thinking of making these political decisions, we will turn on you. We will call you out. Because in the past, Stephen, don't you think maybe there would have been a little bit of embarrassment, like, oh, I'm not going to make a fuss about this. Actually, no, we've got to start standing up and calling out the companies, the corporations that treat people like this for so terribly just for actually agreeing with the majority view?

Well, I do agree with that. I think it's not only an embarrassment for Hawksmoor, it is a message to other companies. We've seen bigger companies in the United States like Disney, for example, and Walmart that have had to face the wrath of their ordinary citizens who go to their events or watch their programs or buy clothes in their stores to turn on them and say we're not going to use your products about that. And the more that we do that, the more that we're strong in our character, strong in our beliefs that fairness and equality should not be discriminated because we want to get a stake, or in the case of OYSES,

I've never had them in there, Connor, so I'm taking your word for the fact that they're pretty good. But you know, at the end of the day, these companies should be stepping out of the political framework. They have the right to be able to remove people who are violent or causing issues, and we know that didn't happen. So this isn't about the rules under retail or being a private company, it's about the politics, but it's more also about ourselves. The more that we stand up for this, the more that we say no more, the more that we defend our own actions, the more that we embarrass them and give ourselves the opportunity to try and bring our nation back to the fair and equal one that it was only a couple of decades ago.

Connor Thomson, do you think this represents a shifting in the Overton window when it comes to Tommy Robinson at all? I mean, for example, it was discussed on LBC and GB News. I mean, in the past, it was pretty much like the only way the mainstream media would talk about Tommy Robinson was if he was being locked up, you know, if he was being charged with a crime, if he was being arrested. Is there a shift now going on? Potentially, and I think it's a broader symptom of everyone's intolerance of cancel culture at this point.

We've seen a number of high profile cases. The first proper chink in the armour, I think, in Britain was Nigel Farage being deplatformed from Coots Bank and obviously discussions about whether or not legislation to prevent debanking needing to be passed. Loads of other people had been debanked and deplatformed and demonetized as lotuses were and very few people spoke up for them back then. Or Stefan Molyneux back in 2020. He had a New York Times front page hit piece about him and was taking him off everything on one fell swoop on one day and still hasn't returned to most platforms. I think it's only because high profile figures like Farage, like Robinson have been discriminated against that those on

the lower runs of the ladder without a platform will benefit from the lifting of this yoke with malicious compliance and and censorious culture. So I think that's positive. And I think actually this is, you're going to see that the, the, the more censorious cancel culture gets the, the more high profile examples come to the fore actually allow for some sort of ugly tribal resentments to bubble up. And I referring to the the Shiloh Hendricks case earlier this year where a mother went into a playground and was filmed by a former charged Somali sex offender for saying racial slurs allegedly at a small child and then saying it to him. Overnight because he posted on the internet to try and get her cancelled for saying these words she got hundreds

of thousands of dollars donated to her by people that were just going, no, we're not going to have that word, especially after the 2020 George Floyd riots have such a power over us. Now, I don't think saying racial slurs is a particularly noble thing. However, lots of people are so sick to death of cancel culture that they're willing to support not very noble, not very polite, not very becoming things to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get rid of it. So I might advise people that think practicing it is kind and compassionate rather than just being a cudgel to beat one's political enemies to stop before things get really, really ugly.

What I sort of love about this is that the mainstream media just expose themselves for the true grim, snaring, revolting characters they are. And there's no better example of that than Sheila Fogarty. I mean, this is a woman who Katie Hopkins exposed here on outspoken for literally trying to sabotage Katie's show on LBC. I mean, this is just a horrendous, horrendous woman who definitely has a face for radio too, by the way, but I want to show you a call on her program. Listen to this.

And make people that aren't of a British heritage feel uncomfortable and hated and wanted and stir up hatred. And then he wants to go and have a quiet meal and be left alone and be not recognized and not be held accountable for his actions in the past. Not in my restaurant, no way. You know, that man you live by the sword, you die by the sword and you reap what you sow. So if you want to be a hateful racist git, well then you reap those benefits and that will be in all of your life as far as I'm concerned. I agree with you that he has clearly declared who he is. I agree with you. But not everybody agrees with us Alan.

They can disagree but I'll tell you what, in my restaurant it wouldn't be in it, it'd be wearing it, you know. You live by the sword, you die by the sword and that's my view. Oh there we go. She's just giggling. She thinks it's hilarious, Stephen Wolf. And I mean, of course, just the working class caller who calls into LBC just coincidentally happens to be a Tommy Robinson hater. Of course, of course that wasn't set up. Yeah, she's about as funny as a bowl of dry sick, to be honest, kind of frankly. And to be honest, they love it, don't they, pretending to have someone from working class being able to, to attack somebody else who's supporting the working class. We

saw that with the actor recently going on talking about how the working class don't only go up against the flag and you can't eat a flag. I think it was Merson from North London. And I think this is, they enjoy it. This kind of upper middle class mainstream media who look down upon us, as George Orwell has said so many times in Road to Wigan Pier, they actually would not like to sit down and have a coffee and a tea with us really,

but they're much happier to see someone from a foreign country and deal with them. And the working class of them are only a vote, they're only something that they can suppress, they're only someone that they can monitor under prevent now for having arguments and ideas above their own station. And they're happy to see an individual who goes against their own. And I doubt very much I wonder whether this person was actually a trade union person rather than running a restaurant.

Yes, there's a lot of question marks about whether that was a real caller. Stephen Wolf, it's been such a pleasure to have you on Outspoken. Where can we see you on Lotus Eaters? Well, I'm on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays at the moment and I'm still doing the research for the Centre of Migration, CMOT.UK. And again, I've just got back only in December on X, so I'm building again. That's because I was cancelled, couldn't get a job in the city and my friend said, sorry Stephen, I'm sorry, I'm probably again. That's because I was cancelled, couldn't get a job in the city, and my friend said, Sodic, Steven, I'm sorry, I'm probably not allowed to say that. Oh no, you can say whatever you want here. That's the great thing about not being on TV.

You've got to get back into the game and I am and thank you for bringing me on the show and lovely to see Connor again. Well, you're back. You're well and truly back and I'm really looking forward to having you on Outspoken again very soon. Developing right now, Reform UK has pushed back against Mac Goodwin's figures showing that Britain is to become a minority white country within four decades. Conor Tomlinson of Tomlinson Talks on YouTube, a senior contributor to Courage Media, has been digging into these figures. Connor Tomlinson, I found this fascinating on so many levels, right, because firstly, this very much feeds into the reform UK civil war. And again, I'm just being honest about what I know. It's very, very clear that Richard Tice is not a supporter and actually feels quite

threatened I think by Matt Goodwin because every time he's been asked about these Goodwin figures which the vast majority of people who know anything about demography believes are conservative right like the rate of change in our demography are happening far quicker I think than what Matt Goodwin presented in this report. But Richard Tice has actually questioned whether the figures are even true and refused to comment on the demography whatsoever. So what do you make of this growing pushback from Reform UK to Goodwin's research?

Yeah, I'll just rattle for a couple of statistics for your audience, Dan. So, host population, that's the white British indigenous host population, is going to decline from 73% of the population according to the 2021 census, which is already out of date, by the way, because of the Boris wave, but it's the best numbers we have, to 57 percent by 2050 and a minority of 34 percent by 2063. In 2013 we were told that year was going to be 2066, very symbolic given a thousand years since the battle of Hastings and the Norman Conquest but it seems to be accelerating. The foreign-born and second-generation immigrant share of the population is going to increase from 20 percent today to 33.5% within the next 25 years. And then by 2100, six in 10 people in the UK will have either been born outside Britain

or be the children of immigrants. And this lines up with Philip Pilkington and Paul Moreland's numbers from an ARC paper in late 2023 that said by 2083, at current levels, Britain will be majority first generation immigrant We are just going to be like a global bus stop for people moving on to greener more tax prosperous Pastures or for people who want social housing and handouts for the increasingly squeezed middle class that haven't left the country yet And a very important stat that wasn't mentioned in here

But the I had a couple of demographers and statisticians break down for me, was the relative level of age between the white British population and the Muslim population. Because the Muslim population was explored in this paper. It said it's going to grow from 7%, which is reported, it's higher obviously, in 2025, to 19% by 2100. Well, currently populations from Muslim majority countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan are 46 and 44 percent under 24 compared to 26 percent of the white British. So they are almost double the share of young people compared to the white British in the country. And so if the projections by David Betts, the professor from King's College London

and Dominic Cummings recently, that ethno-cultural and religious civil war could be stoked up at any time because of these tribal diasporas that set up as little colonies that despise the host population and all of our values, if those environments are ignited by something akin to the Southport massacre again, then all of those concerns are to be taken seriously,

if those warnings are to be taken seriously, then this growth of this population creates an unsustainable powder keg over the next few years. So it is inexcusably flippant of Richard Tice to dismiss these concerns as let's see what happens, on we go and I will be dead by then. Richard Tice has children, he's presumably going to have grandchildren, he should want this country to be a peaceful and prosperous place, the kind of place that allowed him to make so much money and have a family and surround himself with his legacy. If the country is ignited by ethno-cultural and religious warfare, then it's not going to be that. And so he should want to stop turning the spigot

on immigration and the demographics that contribute to this dangerous set of affairs rather than just ignoring it because as he admitted to Stephen Edgington, he was worried that he's going to be called racist. Well, I would rather be smeared by my enemies as racist and one, no I'm not, and two, prevent the country from demographic, cultural and violent collapse. Yeah, no, that is a very good point and of course if you do want a full deep dive into that interview,

you can go and look previously at the video that Connor and I did on that. But I do just want to Connor play specifically the moment from that brilliant Steven Edgerton interview when Richard Tice reacts so angrily and oddly to Matt Goodwin's published some research on demographics in British projections and he predicts that by 2063 Britain will be minority white British. Is that a concern of yours at all? Yeah, I don't think that's a, I haven't seen those predictions in 2063. It's a long way off. It's a few decades.

It's a few decades. It's a few decades. Well, it's I'm trying to do the maths quickly in my head, but it's in most people, I'll be long gone, but all of that. I think that, you know, the UK is a, we are a Christian nation. We should stand up and be proud of that. And let's see what happens. But at the end of the day, what we should be focusing on is

getting our own people back into work, training up our own people, having, in a sense, Nigel's talked quite recently about families, we need more British born people, so that we need to be less reliant on immigration. And that's the issue. And on we go. It will be a huge moment though in British history for the first time ever in this nation's

more than a thousand years of proud history and the country will be minority white British and men and women. Sorry, it sounds like that. You're obsessed with this stuff, okay? So are many other people, Rich, it's not just me to be fair. The way you ask the questions, right? Matt Goodwin's made a forecast. He may or may not be right. I don't know what his computer model is. I've not seen it. But the sensible discussion to have is what is this? What sort of population do we want to have? Can we make that population more prosperous?

Can we have a high quality, highly skilled immigration policy? And yeah, it's like one of these things. It's a bit like what we started on in terms of, do you want to ban the burka? Let's have a discussion about it. I mean, Connor, so much to pick up on. But the fundamental line, which obviously you had already pointed out, I'll be long gone. Yeah, I know. It's the worst sort of I'm all right Jack boomer caricature, isn't it? It's the, it's the, I don't have to lay down the foundations, I don't have to plant seeds for trees in whose shade I will never sit. Instead, I can just ignore my responsibilities to subsequent generations and I don't know, jet off to Dubai and make plenty of money. I really quite despise that attitude. Two responses that I saw that were very good to this, Dan, were as ever Rupert

Lowe saying that no, he's very concerned about this because he's most concerned about the world that his children and grandchildren will inherit. And so he wants to ensure their continued peace and prosperity, which he enjoyed. And then Professor David Betts himself, he said, this should be a disqualifying statement for any politician who is principally concerned about the well-being of the British host majority and trying to ensure that cultural continuity prevents widespread ethnic and religious conflict and like it or not Ethnicity race none of these have moral characteristics It does not make you a bad person to be of a different heritage race birthplace But it is a good proxy for culture because people buy into the culture that they

feel belongs to them, which is why British culture has the prefix British. It belongs to British people and for there to be a British culture, there has to be a British people that invented it. And so if you wholesale replace the British people, you replace British culture. The culture does not shape the people. It goes the other way around. And it's strange that Richard Tice doesn't understand that. Indeed it is. Now, in just one minute, Connor Thomas is going to be back to talk about the war on white men, but specifically in regards to this amazing, bold new plan by Dominic Cummings to get Thomas Skinner, you know, the apprentice legend Bosch, the

Bosch man to run for London Mayor against Sadiq Khan. I love this idea. And actually, maybe this could be something that would actually galvanize white working class men around the country. So lots on that developing story in just one minute. But first, attention all the the proud the bold and the beautifully bald it's time to elevate your grooming game with the Manscape Dome Shaver Plus. Designed for precision comfort and a flawless finish this shaver is the ultimate tool for keeping your dome as smooth as your best pickup lines whether you're maintaining a sleek style or embracing the shine with confidence the Dome

Shaver Plus has you covered. Head over to manscape.com and join the over 11 million men worldwide who trust Manscape by using the code Outspoken for 20% off today and free shipping. The Dome Shaver Plus electric shaver adapts to your head's contours for a smooth shave without the mess and hassle of traditional shaving. Four stainless steel SkinSafe rotary blades reduce nicks and cuts to deliver a perfectly bald look without uneven hair patches. With FlexAdjust technology, every blade stays perfectly close to your scalp for a precise

finish. The powerful 8,000 rpm motor delivers effortless shaving performance with less strokes and irritation. The long-lasting rechargeable battery has up to 60 minutes of runtime. When a charge is needed, you can save time with a 10-minute quick change option. Because the Dome Shave-A-Plus is waterproof, you can enjoy wet or dry operation, and it's ergonomically designed to fit comfortably in your hand and effortlessly navigate every curve of your scalp.

With a magnetic blade pad and hair chamber, clean up as a breeze, making sure your Dome Shaver Plus stays fresh and ready to deliver a smooth shave every time you need it. Grab the Dome Shaver Plus by the handle or palm the blade pad and glide it across your head like you're sweeping away last year's regrets. Go to manscape.com using the code outspoken for free shipping and a whopping 20% discount on your entire order. Get the Dome Shaver Plus today and experience a shave that is as smooth as you deserve. But now back to the show. The war on British young men, especially white working class lads, continues at pace as the government uses the Netflix series Adolescents to present these boys who are already underprivileged in so many ways and struggling in so many ways as the biggest problem facing Great Britain,

which we know is a load of boulder dash. We're going to get analysis from Conor Tomlinson on this in just one moment. But first, is there reason to hope that the Bosch man himself, Thomas Skinner, you know, the brilliant apprentice contestant could be the person who leads the charge of the white working class man by stealing the London mayoralty or winning back the London mayoralty from our failed mayor Sadiq Khan. Well that's certainly the prospect raised by Dominic Cummings who has pledged to throw the vote leave team behind Thomas Skinner's campaign after this post on X yesterday went viral. Let me take you through it. Thomas Skinner wrote I love this country. I love London with everything I've got. It's the greatest

city on earth or at least it used to be and I'll tell you this now anyone who says London is safer today than it was 10-15 years ago is lying through their teeth. I've worked these streets my whole life, grafted on market stalls since I was a kid, rain or shine, cold mornings, long days, I've done it all over London and the surrounding counties. It's in my blood. I don't know anything else and I don't want anything else. I love the graft, the energy, the people. I love giving someone a proper deal and seeing them walk off with a smile. But it ain't safe out there anymore. The streets have changed and not for the better. Honestly, just 15 years ago you had better community, you had characters, people would stop, have a chat, laugh with you, you had respect. Now it's a lot colder, it's more

hostile, it's tense, you get people arguing, stealing, mugging, I've had more fights in the past few years than I ever did when I started, and for what? Just trying to earn a living? And it breaks my heart to say this, but London don't feel like London no more. The police ain't on the beat. The people are scared. And it's the older generation I worry about most. Their joy was getting out to the market, having a cup of tea in the cafe, seeing familiar faces.

Now they're prisoners in their own homes and they are too frightened to walk down their own street. That's not the London I grew up in. That's not the London I love. London has fallen, but I'm not giving up on it. I still believe in this gaffe. I still believe in its people and I believe it can rise again. But we need change, real change. We need safety.

We need pride. We need leadership that understands the pride, we need leadership that understands the streets, the markets, the working class, people like me. Because I'm not here to moan, I'm here to fight for what's right. And I will never stop fighting for this gaffe for London because it's my where, my family are from. It's the absolute governor of a place and it deserves better. It needs a bit of love. Who's joining me? Bosch with a heart emoji and a Union Jack flag and it literally took minutes. It took 33 minutes for Dominic Cummings to say, we may have made Boris Johnson Prime Minister but

we can make you London Mayor. He wrote, run for Mayor as independent, the vote leave team will help, we'll crush Sadiq's shambles, watch him flee and hand over to a stooge to avoid crushing defeat. Bosh. So, Connor Tomlinson, is Thomas Skinner the hero of the white working classes? Is he the man who could bring pride back to this country? I certainly found our man. I love his social media videos and I love when he chewed out Narenda Kerr on Good Morning Britain by just simply waving the England flag and going, no, don't care, call me racist. This is where my wife lives, this is where my family lives, this is where I've grown up, absolutely love it. If he were to run as an independent, he's obviously

got to get over the hurdle of not having a gigantic party apparatus behind him, but he is very savvy on social media, so he could well do it. I wouldn't be shocked though now if both the Conservatives and Reform come knocking on his door, because as we know, they've, Reform have had a bit of trouble with Ant Middleton possibly being their candidate we spoke about before, and as you've got a photo up there when Rupert Lowe was a Reform MP he invited Thomas Skinner to Parliament so he's already got inroads with the party and also, let's face it, the Conservatives haven't had a particularly strong innings in the last few attempts to unseat Sadiq Khan, so I wouldn't be shocked if they, especially under a resurgent Robert Jenrick leadership and a new head of candidate selection over at CCHQ, thought that Thomas Skinner was a good bet.

Regardless, Skinner's name's been brought up quite a few times because he's actually a really good mentor for young men, he's a successful businessman, he's a self-made man, he's a really affable chap, he doesn't take himself too seriously, but he's a very hard worker, he's a self-made man, he's a really affable chap, he doesn't take himself too seriously but he's a very hard worker, he's a seemingly dedicated husband and a father, what more could you want? Especially when, frankly, his life seems a hell of a lot more accessible, as in if you just put the work in, if you love your family, if you love your country, if you love your community, you can get all the good things that he has on offer and have a pint and a pie on a Friday night at the end of the week versus the kind of opulent lifestyles presented by Dan Bilzerian or Andrew Tate where you've got a harem of glass-eyed women who are only with you for the money and a fleet of Bugattis

to replace the fact that you're not a Mongolian warlord on horseback 400 years ago. I think Thomas Skinner is a really good role model for young men and I'd absolutely love to see him as London Mayor as would all my family who have been Londoners for all their lives. Yeah very good point. I mean I was watching your interview with Rupert Lowe on Thomson Talks. It was great, really in depth and it does sound like he is wanting to build this political movement. Perhaps it's the integrity thing with Ben Haviv so maybe that could be a vehicle for Tom Skinner too. But I wanted to talk to you overall Connor about this growing war on young white men, and it was so summed up by adolescents which the elite class continue to push, like they are still going down this path because adolescence is about to win a whole load of the awards in America, the MEs, etc, etc.

And it is being used now internationally as some sort of statement on the problems facing the United Kingdom, blaming young white teenage boys. Now, you have been very, very outspoken on this issue. been very, very outspoken on this issue. Your trigonometry interview went viral, but it feels like the development with adolescence means that the elite class is still going to continue to blame young white men for all of Britain's ills. Yeah, we're public enemy number one of the ruling woke morality and the reason is they see young white men as the avatars of everything standing in the way of equality. Basically, our ruling class believe that everyone is exactly the same deep down. They believe in the blank slate. It's like a religious myth to them. And they think that just by the accident of geography, the historical inequalities of economics and colonialism and a lack of education.

They're the only reasons that a man from Mogadishu can't be taken, dropped straight into Manchester and be as indistinguishably British as yourself or myself, Dan. And so what they need to do is they need to scapegoat the people they blame the most for these inequalities existing. The people still noticing the most for these inequalities existing, the people still noticing the inequalities, the people who have apparently perpetuated racism, sexism, every easternism throughout history for all time, and that is young white men, and so they think if they essentially bully them out of their natural competitive urges, their attraction towards hierarchy and order and excellence while they're young, if they treat them as defective girls then they'll achieve equality and this has started from you know since organized mixed schooling happened frankly because

seated lecture based schooling practices benefit young girls who are more compliant and quiet whereas boisterous young boys want to roughhouse and learn practically and run around and dispel all their energy and so they feel sort of trapped. That's why they get drugs with ADHD medication to sit still. You never get the school administrators or teachers questioning whether or not they're interesting to the students they've got as a captive audience all day and so they've got to give the boy drugs to make sure that they're compliant. And then you get propaganda like adolescence, which I mean the government has been involved for a long time in generating propaganda. We saw this, for example, with Coronation Street storylines that depicted Max, the young autistic boy falling in with a bunch of far-right influencers

on the internet who moonlighted as vigilantes beating up refugee children. Well, now adolescence, quite curiously, is being promoted by a charity called Tender. Now, since 2020, Charlotte Gill's done some really good investigative work on this. Tender has received 3.9 million pounds in government grants and it was co-founded by Keir Starmer's ex-girlfriend, Philippa Kaufman, and the charity were invited to Downing Street on the 1st of April, alongside all the actors and adolescents to promote it.

Now Tender has been one of the charities that have been responsible for producing a lot of the third-party materials to provide in sex education classes in school and they created the pyramid of sexual violence which says that strict gender roles, bragging and the phrase boys will be boys leads ineluctably to gang rape and genocide. Now I don't remember the last time a rugby match ended up in the Holocaust but this is the absurd things that these people believe and they're taking your taxpayer money to do it. And the Family Education Trust,

whose conference I'm speaking at at the end of this week by the way on this exact topic as it happens, did some research last year and they found that 30% of schools teach about toxic masculinity and that 5% of schools teach that men and boys possess traits that are inherently toxic and negative for society. So 5% of schools in this country are telling young boys they are evil and there's nothing they can do about it except to submit to progressive feminism and so that is why we just consider taxpayer-funded abuse and needs to be abolished outright. I know it's just appalling isn't it and the thing is Conor Thomson all the stats right point to actually young white working-class boys being the group of people that the government should not be trying to demonize but should be desperately trying to save right? Yeah, well the purpose of the system is what it does and if they put white working-class boys at the bottom of the inverted oppression pyramid, Dan, then it's working as expected. But the Center for Social Justice produced a report called Lost Boys earlier this year. It gave some

up-to-date research on facts that we already knew, for example, that university admissions are down predominantly among white working-class boys, that at GCSE A and degree level qualifications, girls are outperforming boys. Turns out the gender pay gap, the mythical gender pay gap I might say because if you adjusted for hours worked and seniority in profession and choice in profession, the gender pay gap between men and women is eliminated to less than a penny. But the actual gender pay gap now among young working professionals in the same sort of career fields among young men and women has inverted because of affirmative action hiring processes and these are embedded in

government legislation in the Companies Act of 2006, in the Charities Act of 2011 and famously in the Public Sector Equality Duty of the Equality Act which expressly says we want to hire from people with protected characteristics which means racial, sexual identity, religious, and gender minorities. Even though women are in the majority, they're treated as an oppressed victim class because of the patriarchy. And so that means the government has a legal mandate, enforced in private companies and public bodies, to discriminate exclusively against straight white men. And nearly the justice system passed the same thing with its two-tier sentencing guidance, fortunately thwarted by Robert Jenrick, which would have seen straight white men who commit crimes

given harsher penalties than racial or cultural or religious minorities, transgender individuals, women and pregnant persons, because we can't even admit sex differences even though we're discriminating along those lines. So what we've got then is basically an apartheid system where under the guise of diversity, equity, inclusion, and equality, and compassion, and the bleeding hearts of all liberals, they're practicing anti-white hatred and misandry. And I just think anyone who's been complying with this mandate should hang their heads in shame.

And anyone who has been enforcing it should never be allowed to hold public office, especially in a role of influence over children ever again. Very well put, Conor Tomlinson. Thank you so much for the brilliant work that you do on this. And of course, if you do want to watch Conor's full interview with Rupert Lowe, it's absolutely brilliant. I really, really recommend it. Tomlinson talks on YouTube.. Connor, so great to see you and I know you'll be back very, very soon. And thank you so much for watching

this special Hot Topics edition of Outspoken today. No uncancelled after show, it is back on Tuesday, but I've got some really special editions of the show coming up this week that I want to tell you about because I am super super excited making their outspoken debuts. Carol McGiffen, Colin Brazier and Mark Stein, three people that you have been desperate to have on the show for such a long time. I've been absolutely desperate to as well.

You are not going to want to miss these interviews. So even though at this stage we're moving off YouTube and Rumble, please do hit the subscribe button, turn on your notification bell and then you will be alerted to those new episodes. I kick off tomorrow 5pm UK time, midday eastern, 9am pacific. Do join us then and most importantly I promise to keep fighting for you.