Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE LASHES OUT AT RUPERT LOWE & CLAIMS ZIA YUSUF RACISM AT BIZARRE MEDIA EVENT

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

VERSO - https://evening.ver.so/outspoken - Use code OUTSPOKEN to save 15% on your first order. Nigel Farage claims that criticism of Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf for calling the cops on the party’s best performing MP Rupert Lowe over hurty words is racism at a bizarre press conference where he refused to take any questions from the press. But the civil war on the right over the issue of mass deportations continues. In his Digest, Dan reveals why Matt Goodwin and Reform bods are wrong to suggest support for mass deportations is limited to the so-called “online right”. Then he’s joined by Chris Littlewood, the Reform UK interim branch chair who went viral for his damning resignation letter to Zia Yusuf. And Alex Phillips, a long-time ally of Nigel Farage who served alongside him in UKIP and the Brexit Party also joins Outspoken. What does she make of her former boss cosying up with Dominic Cummings? PLUS: Civil war at LBC as the loony lefties attack each other, with the station’s propagandist James O’Brien in one corner and sacked Sangita Myska in the other. AND: Katie Hopkins viciously mocks Michelle Dewberry for claiming she’s a freedom fighter when she has refused to publicly stand up for Tommy Robinson. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: It’s nearly D-Day for Prince Harry as the drug-taking Duke’s immigration records are set to be released within the next 24 hours. But will he be saved by the redactions? We’ll team up with the Royal News Network for Stateside analysis. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And breaking right now, Nigel Farage claims that criticism of Reform UK's chairman, Zia Youssef, for calling the cops on the party's best before winning MP Rupert Lowe over hurty words, is racism. At a bizarre press conference where he actually refused to take any questions from the press. I want to say one thing. Some of the online abuse and, outright over racism. But the civil war on the right over the issue of mass deportations continues. Nigel wants a referendum. The last thing we need is a referendum on the ECHR. This debate is going to continue, Ben. This debate is going to continue. I'm sorry we've run out of time. So in my digest next, I'll reveal why Matt Goodwin and other senior reform figures are wrong to suggest support for mass deportations is limited to the so-called online right.

Then I'm joined by Chris Littlewood, the Reform UK interim branch chair who went viral for his damning resignation letter to Zia Youssef. And Alex Phillips, a longtime ally of Nigel Farage who served alongside him in UKIP and the Brexit Party, will be here too. What does she make of her former boss cosying up with Dominic Cummings? And did he just open the door to a shock return from Rupert Lowe after all of that? You mentioned his finding there, Rupert Lowe. Is he dead to you? Can he get back in if he's cleared by the investigation or the KC? Let's just see what the investigations say. I wasn't very happy last week. He suggested that I try to stop him talking about rape gangs. I mean, nonsense. But look, let's wait and see. Also coming up on the

show today, civil war at LBC as the loony lefties attack each other with the station's propagandist James O'Brien in one corner and sacked presenter Sangeeta Mishka in the other. And Katie Hopkins viciously mocks Michelle Jubry for claiming she's a freedom fighter when she has refused to publicly stand up for Tommy Robinson. Then in the uncancelled after show on Substack, it's nearly D-Day for Prince Harry as the drug-taking duke's immigration records are set to be released within the next 24 hours. But will be saved by the redactions and look at this gorgeous shot of Catherine

the princess of Wales today there she is looking absolutely immaculate and we'll celebrate her and William as well with the Royal News Network just sign up onack, www.outspoken.live. First Greatest Britain and Union Jackass of the Week as well. Of course, you make these decisions. Let me run through your nominees today and you can get voting in the live chat. First up, the Off-Communists, nominated by Real McCass of the Dan Wilton Outspoken Club on X as they are planning on censoring stuff now online as the Online Safety Act comes into force. Social media companies will be forced to moderate illegal content, of course. Nominee two, Narendra Kerr, nominated by Becca Cathorn QVizT. And it's Fabina Racebater and extremely rude and disrespectful towards

Lady C that's in regards to our clash episode last week and the third nomination from Ted Hodgson the Speaker of the House Lindsay Hoyle his words for a disgusting Fabina disgusting imitation of a socialist with his freebies. The results announced at the end of the show. Get voting now, though you can do so in the live notes. Comment throughout the show as well, and I'll read some of the best at the end. But now, let's go. I worry that Reform's new rhetoric seems to be borrowing from the woke left, just as they announced the defection of 29 councillors to the party, including Lib Dems and Labour councillors, which suggests some sort of purposeful move to the centre. Here's how Nigel Farage dealt with the Rupert Lowe issue today at a bizarre press conference where he refused to take any questions from the press. Now you might have

noticed that we have been through a little bit of turbulence over the course of the last couple of weeks. We've been increasingly concerned about the behaviour of one of our members of Parliament and when we found out that some serious complaints had gone in we thought, you know what, let's just suspend the whip and let's find out what the truth is and we will wait, first we will get the report from the independent King's Council who's been appointed. I don't know exactly when that's going to be, but some anticipation that it might happen during the course of this week.

And later on, perhaps it'll take some time, we'll hear from the relevant parliamentary committee too. Has it caused some consternation? Of course it has. Any argument that seemed to happen within the family does. But I can promise you that in terms of our progress and our planning, that upset is very much at the edges. Then Nigel seemed to borrow from the woke left again by suggesting that criticism of the party's Muslim chairman, Zia Youssef, amounted to racism.

I want to say one thing. Some of the online abuse, and frankly, outright, over racism, that has been showed against a senior member of this party. Had it been shown towards any other member of the ethnic minorities, from the Labour and Conservative parties, every one of you in the journalistic arena in this room would have been in total and absolute uproar.

It would have been a major national story. But because it's happening to us, no-one seems to really care, with the honourable exception of Danny Finkelstein in The Times. I've never really agreed with anything in the past Danny's ever written, but on this he showed himself to be fair and to be decent. Anyway, we are big enough and ugly enough to take it and we are cracking on. There is a great sense of energy and optimism out there in the country. In fact, I would actually argue that the criticism of Zia Yusuf was completely legitimate. And it was about

the fact that he used the woke witch hunt tactics of the left by calling the cops on his best performing MP Rupert Lowe, while others in the party spread smears about him suffering from early onset dementia. Indeed, the Daily Mail reported at the weekend that Farage had serious concerns about Yusuf's conduct himself, which I assume isn't racist. Perhaps it's a sign of the very online right that the latest attempt to try and gaslight us into believing that mass deportations are some sort of terrible thing came via a meme. Now this was a meme released by Matt Goodwin, a man who has rightly built up a lot of respect, but who maybe should just be honest about the fact that he now works in lockstep with Nigel Farage and Reform UK's party leadership rather than as an independent commentator like me. So he posted this meme in reference to the

ongoing debate sparked by Rupert's brutal sacking from the party on trumped up charges. And it says 3% migration policy, very online, right? Reform on 26%. Now, no one is actually talking about re-migration, by the way, which is why many folk, including me, feel gaslit. Just like Rupert, what we are talking about is the mass deportation of illegal immigrants and criminals who are dual citizens. The rapists, the terrorists, the murderers, the benefit cheats, the robbers making our country unsafe and poor. Yes, they can all go back to their country of origin. And actually, in the battle of the memes, this rival summed it up quite nicely. You see there, deport illegal migrants, 99% of reform voters, reform UK, no deportations. So is pollster extraordinaire Goodwin right? That mass deportations of illegal immigrants and criminal

dual nationals is a concept just too extreme for the British population, a practical and electoral impossibility? Um, absolutely not. And somewhat embarrassingly and awkwardly, for Goodwin and perhaps for Arch too, it was their employer, GB News, that came up with the evidence. As the show's producer, or GB News producer, Karen Everson, put it, new public polling shows popularity of mass deportations, support for deporting migrants who entered the UK illegally. All voters, 66%, reform voters, 99%. Yep, 99%. So look, let's dig deeper into that data from Find Out Now,

because this is important. The results show 84% of all voters support the deportation of migrants who commit violent crimes. Among reformed voters, this number is 99%. When asked about the deportation of migrants who commit sex offences, the public is again overwhelmingly supportive at 85%, while reformed voters responded with 96% support. A majority of the public also support deporting migrants who have entered the UK illegally, standing at 66%. Reform voters were almost a clean sweep, 99% supporting the deportation of illegal migrants. So, as Stephen Edgington, the GB News journalist who got Farage to admit he had no intention of mass deportations, put it, so mass deportations is not a fringe,

very online right position after all. RB on X argued with tongue firmly in cheek alongside a picture of Farage and Zia Youssef, the 1% of reform voters who don't support mass deportations. So let me just be clear again, I'm not advocating against Reform UK here. I repeat, I voted for them. I was the first to predict Nigel Farage would become Prime Minister in 2029. But what I am very clearly saying is that their position on mass deportations is wrong. Stop trying to gaslight people like me who believe in mass deportations as some sort of extreme fringe. And let me be clear that the treatment of Rupert Lowe, who we saw there with his young grandchild at the weekend, has been unconscionable. Here's how Rupert responded to the new polling, by the way. He posted on X, of course, deporting roughly 1 million illegal migrants and

foreign criminals would be a logistical challenge. Is it impossible? No. Do potential difficulties mean we shouldn't even try? Absolutely not. You have to start somewhere. I suggest those in prisons and hotels. Refusing to deport all illegal migrants and foreign criminals is the weird fringe position. Why are so many afraid to even say the words? Mass deportations may not be mainstream in the media, but it's mainstream in British public opinion. We are right. And I'm sad to say that I think what we've seen proven over the past two weeks is the people who will put their personal ambition ahead of what is right when it comes to Reform UK. The Civil War was summed up in this extraordinary tetchy debate on GB News between Matt Goodwin and former reform deputy leader Ben Habib. Precipice of constitutional, economic, cultural disaster. And Nigel Farage, well you asked me a question Matt, so let me, if I may,

just finish. And Nigel Farage, on all those key issues, at least the way reform is structured at the moment, will not be able to deliver for the country. So it's academic for me. You don't know that. You don't know that. Let me just put something to you, if I may. Matt, I absolutely know that.

And what you must not do, Matt, is conflate popularity with effectiveness. They're not the same thing. Now, no one is denying that Reform UK is doing incredibly well. What we are saying is there has to be a point to that success. And dozens of former grassroots members of Reform, people with whom I have campaigned shoulder to shoulder in various elections where...

I've got 400 branches now, haven't I? Or other people have been... You're not following the detail. Listen to what I have to say. People have been set aside... I've been speaking at reform branches over the last three months, so I'm pretty familiar with what's going on in the grassroots. This is a party that was only two years old, and it's averaging 26% of the vote then.

So you keep going back to the polls. You keep confusing and conflating popularity with the ability to deliver for the country. No, I'm just trying to figure out what it is that you want, Ben, apart from a change of structure. Because you've said today that you want a new party headed by Rupert Lowe. I want a change of structure. I want a party which is capable of tolerating other people beyond Nigel. Nigel, frankly, is such a big character,

such a big campaigner, that the party desperately needs checks and balances in place on the leader. And eventually, when the going got a bit too tough, in true GB News style, Mr Beeb was simply cut off. Nigel's also the only non-establishment politician in this country. He's won two nationwide elections with two different parties. I'm just being real with you.

I look at his critics and they've not won anything. This is a guy who's won two national elections. Matt, it's not a matter of just winning an election. You've got to be able to deliver for the country when you win the election. And reform is not capable of doing that the way it is structured. You change countries by winning elections. You change policies by winning elections. That's how you do it. You keep interrupting. There's no point winning an election if the policies you have are pointless

and the individuals that you've got are substandard and incapable of delivering it. Leaving the ECHR is not a pointless policy, Ben. Do you know what the last pronunciation of Nigel Farage on the ECHR was? Do you know what it was, Matt? It wasn't to leave the ECHR. It was to have a referendum on the ECHR was? Do you know what it was, Matt? It wasn't to leave the ECHR. It was to have a referendum on the ECHR. That is where Nigel's mind is on the ECHR. Nigel wants a referendum. The last thing we need is a referendum on the ECHR.

This debate is going to continue, Ben. This debate is going to continue. I'm sorry we've run out of time. That old chestnut. But as Alcona Tomlinson has argued, mass deportations is an incredibly popular position with Reform UK's grassroots, who should not be forgotten in this discussion.

Look at this response at Reform UK's conference to the issue. We've heard a lot today from Reform and what they want to do, but starting left to right, so starting at the end, my left to my right, in one sentence what do you want Reform to do that they're not doing now or not pushing now? One sentence. You go first. Mass deportations. I don't know, yeah, is my mic on for that one? Excellent. Okay, yeah. There you go. Yeah, robust policy of re-migration as well as an advancement beyond the language of British Ie, rhaid i chi ddweud hynny. Ie, polisi rhodd o ddewis, yn ogystal â phrosglwyddoedd yn ôl iaith gwerthoedd Brifysgol a'r iaith o ddewis.

Gallaf fy nghyffwrdd am hyn, ond rwy'n rhaid i mi ail-eithio'r hyn y dywedodd Conniger. Yr hyn rwy'n hoffwn i ni ei wneud yw ddewision mawr o bobl sydd wedi said what I would like us to do is mass deportations of people that have entered our country illegally and have got absolutely no right to be here whatsoever if somebody came into your house and you didn't invite them in you would throw them out and that is the same way that I see it with illegal immigration that we're seeing across the United Kingdom. And indeed, mass deportations were advocated by Margaret Thatcher. With regards to the Vietnamese vote people, those who are genuine refugees, and that is determined again by the United Nations,

will not be returned. Those who are illegal immigrants, those who are illegal immigrants will be returned. Those who are illegal immigrants, those who are illegal immigrants will be returned. And it is customary international law for countries to receive their own immigrants back into their country. And if he is right, honourable gentleman, is suggesting that we ever get to a position when you cannot return illegal immigrants to their country of origin, then he is proposing international chaos. International chaos indeed. Maybe Rupert Lowe is right to say deport, deport, deport.

Deport, deport, deported, deported, deporting, deportation, deport, deport, deported, Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deported. Deport. Deportation. Deportations. Tens of thousands. Now, it's not a media obsession to say there is serious concern at the moment amidst reform's grassroots. Chris Littlewood, a Reform UK interim branch chair, went viral over the weekend for his damning resignation letter to Zia Youssef. Read by well over one million people online, he wrote, Dear Mr Youssef, Integrity matters to us. We can no longer represent Reform UK. We can no longer face our voters, your masters, Mr Youssef, and sincerely defend your party's actions. This decision comes after careful thought and with resounding unity. The recent debacle, entirely of your own making, involving Rupert Lowe's suspension, followed by dementia smear rumours and the utterly spurious, disgraceful weaponisation of the legal system in reporting him

to the police a day after his critique for alleged threats, an 84 delay that reeks of retaliation, was the catalyst for our joint resignation. Worse, Richard Tice confirmed on GB News that Lowe would not regain the whip, even if the claims were proven false, exposing this as a premeditated purge, not a pursuit of justice. Played out disgracefully over the week in this act of self-harm towards the party leaves your grassroots associations to defend, explain and justify. Such arrogance, dishonesty and fragile autocracy is unbecoming of you, Mr Youssef. The dastardly treatment of colleagues acting in the nation's interest in your inability to tolerate the diversity of thought vital to any thriving organization reveal your severe shortcomings. It seems we're just more of that lot you want

nothing to do with. There's no difference between this party and the rest willing to compromise anything for power, power for power's sake, not the good of the people. And the author of that letter, Chris Littlewood, joins me now for the Uncancelled interview. Chris Littlewood, while it was quite a letter, have you heard anything from Zia Youssef or Nigel Farage since your resignation? I've heard nothing from anybody from reform at all. And do you think that's indicative of your treatment at the moment? I think that's indicative of how they treat all of the branches. You're an interim branch and they can replace you at will.

So I don't think they care. There have been mass resignations by many of the branch leaders, not to mention members as well. I'm told over 10,000. Do you think this is a genuine crisis within the party? Yes. You know, the reason why I got involved with reform, I've never been involved in a political party before,

was because I wanted to be involved in something that brought some genuine change to our country, that actually brought some common sense decency back where you had politics and policies that you can believe in. And I'm sorry, everything I say is a charade. Can you talk to me about the mass deportation issue? Why do you get the sense that Nigel Farage and Zia Youssef are so against a policy that the polling over the weekend proves is not only massively popular with the public, with four members, it's like off the charts, 99% in favour. My opinion is, like with everything, and, you know, Ben in his interview was quite right about, you know, in our contract with the people, we said we were going to leave the ECHR. Well, now it's a referendum. We said in the contract with the people we were going to deport illegal migrants and migrant criminals. Now it's off the job. We were going to deport illegal migrants and migrant criminals. Now it's off the job. They are weakening on every single policy to become center ground and focus on attracting the 70 percent of this population that are that disenfranchised with the political system that they've given up because they think, well, what's the point? I'm only if I vote for Labour or a vote conservative or a vote for liberal, nothing changes.

It just gets systematically worse. Reform were meant to bring a completely new truthful option. And you're seeing it play out day after day that that's not, they are more of the same. And that's not good enough. That's not good enough for anybody in this country. We need proper change. Donald Trump didn't go about and start trying to court Democrats. He went out to the people that no longer believed in politics and said, I hear you. And he brought about a revolution in the amount of people that voted for him. And you only do that by listening to people, listening to what they want. And that study on 99% of people wanting mass deportations is something that's right across the country. We should listen to what the people want and then deliver it.

And are you concerned then, Chris Littlewood, today with the defections, the council defections, given that there are Lib Dems and Labour councillors, a lot of people are suggesting this is almost Reform UK embracing the centre ground, reinventing itself as a centrist party. Yes, 100%. And you're concerned about that? Of course. I mean, we haven't had a proper government since Margaret Thatcher. Every single time since then, we've had weak policies, weak politics, backsliding, never, ever delivering on manifesto promises. And that's why we're in the state that we're in. We are in a terrible state in this nation,

not only from a democracy point of view, but from a financial point of view, we're taxing more and more of our people to waste it on madness, like net zero, like foreign aid. It needs to change. I the form was the one that was going to bring it but they're not they're weakening on everything i'm just looking in our live chat chris and magna carta writes this man represents all the hardcore supporters and look at how they've

been treated and there are a couple of other big resignations over the weekend. This one shocked me, Chris. I have to say Maria Baltal. Now, I'll explain why. Because she was a rising star within Reform UK. She had actually been put up by the party to appear on Outspoken, for example. She wrote, Dear Mr Farage, the treatment of Rupert Lowe, in my view, crystallized many of these concerns and proved to be the final straw. I no longer trust our chairman has the leadership qualities or characteristics I would like to serve under. The acting chairman for Scunthorpe also resigned and wrote to you, I very much resonate

with everything you said. We have been so let down. I have reached out to Rupert Lowe offering my support if he decides to start a new party that actually listens to voters. But are you not concerned, Chris, that if that happens, there will be just such a split on the right that it really allows the left to continue dominating British politics? It's an interesting question, and it's one that myself and the other branch members really thought very hard about. I mean, we didn't just jump into a decision to, OK, let's all resign en masse the next day. We thought about it. And I guess it comes down to this is how can you support a party that you know in your heart is not going to deliver on the policies that you are delivering leaflets from or knocking on doors or canvassing or generating membership? You can't do that. You've got to have a level of integrity. Now, the way that reform is set up,

you know, they're talking about the problem with our democracy, but they're not a democratic party themselves. And until they fix that and actually change it so that that party is owned and represented by its members, then I can't see a future for it. I don't want to see reform reformed and start sticking to its word and delivering common sense policies for the people of this country. That's what I want to see. Now, if they won't do that, then obviously, with 70 percent of the country not even bothering to vote, there's a very, very big audience for a new party to pick up. They shouldn't be focusing on people that they know go and vote Labour or they know go and vote Liberal Democrats. The thing that they should be doing is talking to the 70% of people that no longer believe in politics and speak to them and provide them with a solution so that they can believe in politics and they actually believe and it's proven that their vote counts. That's what a party should be doing. Chris Littlewood,

such a pleasure to have you today. Keep fighting the good fight. Thank you so much. Breaking right now, is Nigel Farage about to dramatically U-turn on the future of Rupert Lowe? Interestingly, he spoke to his employers at GB News in much more positive terms about the possibility of the Axed MP being allowed back into the fold once the investigations into him conclude. Now, look, I'd be delighted to see that as a conclusion of this unseemly civil war, because saving the country is far too important to let petty rows see good men forced out of the reform movement forever. However, how is that going to work? How on earth could Zia Youssef, who's gone to the police about Rupert Lowe,

sit in a room with Rupert? And how could Rupert trust any of these guys again, given they've tried to destroy him? This is what Farage told GB News. Now, I have no idea if he really means this or if it's simply a holding position. Watch. You mentioned just finally there rupert low is he dead to you can he get back in if he's cleared by the investigation or the casey let's just see what the investigations say i wasn't very happy last week he suggested that i'd

try to stop him talking about rape gangs i mean nonsense but look let's wait and see well someone who knows faraj and his media strategy very well is Alex Phillips, the former Brexit Party MEP and UKIP communications legend. She's today's outsider. Alex Phillips, goodness me, the Civil War certainly hasn't toned down at all. But what did you make of that interview with Nigel Farage today, where he did seem to open up the door to some sort of conciliation with Rupert Lowe, admitting that maybe he had been a little bit hot-headed last week? Do you think there is a chance that once these investigations

have concluded, he could be allowed back into the fold? Oh, I hope so, because weren't we all saying basically, I could just bang their heads together. Look, I don't know what went on behind closed doors. Nobody does. We're all speculating from the sidelines, willing the two to just sort things out and willing them to stop washing their dirty laundry in public.

Now, I know both of them well. They're both strong willed. They're both extremely brilliant men. You know, they're alpha males. But one thing that gave me confidence was the last time I was on hearing Rupert Lowe talking about we very much thinking of himself still in reform. And I think Nigel is sort of rowing back, perhaps, and the anger and the fury he may have felt when Rupert first did that interview with Andrew Pearce, where he called Nigel messianic, never a good idea to wash dirty linen in public. And so in many respects, I think Nigel feels Rupert fired the first shots across the bows in making whatever dispute was happening behind the scenes into the public domain. I think Nigel's probably had a lot of pressure put on him from the membership of his party and other people saying to him, look, you don't realise how damaging this has been. This isn't just a case of great, you know, the polling's looking good. You've had this spat. It's a blip. You're going to move on from it. I think in the outside world, there was polling that showed that even among reform

supporters, 75% didn't know who Rupert Lowe was. But I think within the people within branches, the people who go out and have to deliver leaflets, the people who defected and became councillors, they all knew who Rupert is they like him incredibly and it's been rather unedifying seeing this entire spat roll out in public so it seems to me that there is now a possibility of reconciliation but i wouldn't start counting my chickens before they're hatched no i mean oh i i i have hope i want to feel that hope i think it would be such a sensible thing to do, Alex. And I'll explain why, because I watched the Reform UK press event in full today. Now, it wasn't a press conference. Nigel didn't take any questions on the stage from journalists. Yes, he spoke to them

afterwards. But to me, again, that showed a lack of confidence compared to his usual swashbuckling approach, which is to take on the media in full view of the public, which is one of the reasons that we love Nigel. And I just felt sad seeing this new video that they'd edited together at the start of the press conference where they'd clearly had to put together some footage of the four MPs and hastily edit Rupert Lowe out of everything. That didn't feel good to me. And as much as there are reasons to support Reform UK as an alternative

to the uni party, I get the sense, Alex, and I really have sensed it a lot all weekend, that a lot of people just have felt so upset i mean let me give you um an example actually there was because nigel posted about this uh big conference stuff got coming up in two weeks uh in birmingham and it's going to be massive and then a lovely woman called susan birch responded to him quite honestly on x, I have two tickets and I'm not sure if we are coming now. It just doesn't feel right without Rupert Lowe and the team. It's all gone sour. I thought you were all fitted together,

all doing your bit for the country. So sad. Now knives are out for reforms, control freak chairman. Oh, sorry. That, that,

that was, that was, that's went on to the next one, but you understand the feeling that she had Alex because we all feel it it's a bit like when we found out that Prince Harry and Prince William hated each other and we all kind of hoped in the early stages there could be reconciliation between those two the thing is the longer these things are left the more difficult it becomes so I really hope that um things can be resolved and resolved quickly. And I'm not

surprised by seeing those comments because the amount of people who are calling me, messaging me all the time as if I'm some sort of sacred conduit to Nigel and can sort of change things. You are. You are. Tell him, you know, the whole Rupert Lowe thing's not good. We want Rupert back in the fold. Please tell him to be Nigel again, to be the vanguard, to lead the debate, not sit back and wait to see where it goes and be cautious. We have our hopes in you as a leader, not a follower. Someone phoned me up earlier today and said he had loads of friends who are very wealthy people who are about to sort of, you know, get in touch and want to donate money to reform. And has put them off and they've all said to him we do not need a Nigel Badenoch or a Kemi Farage you know we need Nigel Farage as he always was the

Overton window has shifted so much it's his battleground totally he's been proven right all along so why he's rowing back I don't know well I'm really interested Alex that you that you raised it because I wanted to show you just a little bit of an interview that your former colleague, Gwaine Towler, who worked with you at UKIP and then became both the Brexit Head of Communications and Reform UK Head of Communications before being sacked by Steve Youssef, which is a whole other story. I wanted to show you this clip because it's got a lot of criticism in terms of where nigel sees himself on the political spectrum i'm interested to know if you agree with gwen on this or not watch farage isn't at the front of waves he's never really at the very front of waves

but he as the wave curls he's just behind the peak ready And he's ready to surf the wave in. So he uses a wave that he's already seen. He's trained for surfing for a long time, but he doesn't lead. He's just behind the peak. If you're on the peak, you get crushed when the wave comes down. And his timing, he's always been very good at timing. Yes, I agree, But no, not now.

Now, see, Carl Benjamin responded to that, Alex, saying even Farage's most ardent defenders admit that he is a moral coward and is afraid to lead from the front. Oh, come on. He is not a moral coward. What Gawain is saying is absolutely right. Because what he said is if you're at the very front of the wave if you turned around 10 years ago and said oh guess what the change of demography in this country is going to be really problematic you would have been crushed okay and that is without doubt and when you look at how much Nigel has changed the debate around leaving the EU for a start then talking about mass migration then talking about the people coming over on the boats he was the first one to even mention this happening years ago and said this is going to become something massive. And everyone laughed at him. So this is what he does see things ages before anybody else. He's brilliant at reading the political tea leaves, but he also knows electorally because he has sometimes gone a bit too soon on things. He has been the vanguard at the expense of himself

and his own reputation and at the expense, therefore, of enabling his politics and his party to succeed. So he has learned over the course of the years that timing is everything. And I think that I said repeatedly to people, and Gawain said this in the interview of Peter McCormack, that Nigel understands how critical timing is in politics, doing it at the right time, not now, I will know, I know when I'm

going to do that and make that speech and announce that policy, because the public will be ready for it. And it's not for Carl Benjamin to be ready for it. He doesn't represent every single voter in the United Kingdom. He might represent about 10 percent of voters in the United Kingdom. And that is not going to get Nigel anywhere. OK. And so Nigel now is playing for the big league. Do you know what I mean? It's not like when he was in UKIP and 12 percent was brilliant. Thank you very much. We actually got, you know, some MEPs elect under PR he wants to see the entire political system of the UK destroyed which hasn't happened in about a hundred years okay it's massive and

very difficult time in modern history and and Alex as a result that's why he's let bygones be bygones and have has met with Dominic Cumm. So this was first reported by Tim Shipman in yesterday's Sunday Times, who said Cummings was meeting with Farage to discuss remaking the state and how to replace the Tories. He said Cummings is very much a lone wolf, but senior Tories are drawing the same conclusion that without cooperation with Farage, they cannot win. Several of those involved in the conversation say a campaign is due to be launched in the next few weeks ahead of the May local elections, urging reform and the Conservatives to work more closely together. However, Nigel today has confirmed the meeting, but is doing the complete opposite of that, Alex. He is saying, absolutely, this means that we want to kill off the Conservative Party.

So I'll get your reaction. But first, just have a watch at what he told Christopher Home. Why on earth are you talking to Dominic Cummings? Well, I met him to talk about the blob and what were the problems, what were the practical problems of coming into government and not being able to do what you wanted to do. And, I mean, that's very much an arm's length. By the way, he and I have never got on, so it's never a bad thing to sit and talk to someone you've not got on with

and try and find some sort of peace. You'd be on Brexit. But I was interested in what he had to say. And, look, anything you might have read yesterday is nonsense. He's not joining the team or anything like that. Is he advising you at all going forward? We had a dinner and

we agreed on one thing, which was the Conservative Party is dead. It's done. It's over and it needs to be replaced. Okay. Dominic Cummings. He's a guy who has hated farage destroyed boris johnson's career is this a wise idea alex oh i don't think it's worth even giving the man a minute of time one thing that donald cummings is definitely a genius genius that is injecting himself into every scenario as if he is the most important person as if he is some sort of unbridled genius. I remember when he decided he wanted to set up Vote Leave, he had a meeting

with Nigel Farage because I was there and he said, we don't want anything to do with it. What a terrible, terrible decision that was. And thankfully, Nigel ignored it and went on and set up Leave.eu with Aaron Banks. And then the two rival factions essentially managed to get Brexit over the line. Nigel's involvement in that was absolutely essential. Dominic Cummings does the bidding of Michael Gove. Michael Gove is the person who backed Kemi Badenoch. They've also got their feelers out in the Labour Party at the moment. They're trying to whisper sweet nothings in the ear of Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Those people are so obsessed with power and parlour games. And that's what they brought

down the Conservative Party. It was their faction fighting and plotting that actually destroyed Boris Johnson and destroyed Liz Truss, quite frankly. So I think just handle with care. Is he clever? Might he have some interesting opinions about how to sort of manage white people in the civil service? Yeah, fine. Just just read his sub stack then i don't think you need to go near someone like dominic cummings quite frankly and i hope this hasn't now set in motion uh inviting rasputin into the court of the czar because we all know how that ends up um i do want to say in that interview though you could see a wonderful cameo of gawain walking behind so it's nice to see him still buzzing around at reform venues. He'll be back in the mix before you'd know it. Richard Tice was asked about the whole Dominic Cummings things by Mike Graham on Talk This Morning too.

Ken saying Nigel Farage had a conversation or two with Dominic Cummings. Any likelihood of Mr Cummings joining the merry band? I suspect that's way down on the list of likelihoods. Really? I think that's a long way down. But look, at the end of the day, Mr Cummings, the one thing he was always right on was about

the need for civil service reform. And we've talked about that. But he couldn't get it done, could he? He couldn't get it done because there wasn't the will around him. You've got to go in with that as part of your manifesto and say, this is essential and we're determined to do it. See, Alex, I would be so positive about all of that talk.

Totally agreeing with Richard there. Good. Get it in your manifesto. Total restructuring, reform of the civil service. Brilliant. If there just wasn't the sour taste in my mouth over the treatment of Rupert Lowe, you see. So I think that still overshadows a lot of this. Yeah, of course it does. And this is where reconciliation would be a really good thing.

And I think it seems to me Nigel's suddenly woken up to that and gone, OK, this is not playing out in my favour. And hopefully that will do something to be able to get those guys together. What I do hope is Rupert Lowe is still up for getting together and letting bygones be bygones. Because I've also started hearing rumors that, well, you know, Elon Musk really likes Rupert Lowe. If Rupert wanted to set up his own party, Elon would donate millions of pounds to it. And I just think, oh, my God, we don't need yet another contender on the right. For a long time on the left, they've been splintered because they've had Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the SNP, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, and the right was monopolised by the Conservatives. Now,

yes, the Conservatives have failed the country. But what we don't need now, and our enemies would love this, is to see a gazillion pointless little parties, the Homeland Party, Heritage, Reclaim, you know, the Lowites or whatever, all with a myriad different purposes, all sort of fighting for the same thing, but not under the same banner. I don't think it's about time that reform should start breaking bread

with the conservatives. They're still dominated by that evil faction I was telling you about, the Govites, who have done so much to injure politics and injure actually as a result, the United Kingdom. So I don't have much truck with them. But I don't think we need to sort of let perfection be the enemy of the good. If we like reform, if we believe in Nigel, if we like Nigel 1.0, if we want to see immigration controlled, if we know the two legacy parties have failed the country and will continue to do so, can we just sit back and go, they're going to peeve us sometimes.

They're not going to manifest so that I as an individual would want. No party can actually satiate every single person who supports them's whims and wills. But they're the best thing. They're the best hope this country has got. And can we stop sniping all the time at reform on X and poking and digging and exacerbating and picking scabs? Because ultimately, this is the future of our country. I'm not saying don't hold them to account. I'm not saying don't speak truth to power. I'm not saying shut up and put up. But what I'm saying is, can we just take a breath? Because people like Carl Benjamin seem to just make hay out of being someone who wants to attack the people who are trying to put their head above the parapet and lead this country and be part of politics.

And it's easy if you're just a commentator on YouTube looking for clicks. Fine. But it's much harder when you're having to deal with real politics. It's much harder when you're having to win local elections. It's much harder when you're trying to drive a 15% polling to 30%, the things you're going to have to sacrifice and compromise to get there. That is what people need to be cognizant of. And Nigel is doing this about timing. The Rupert Lowe argument is a separate thing. Let's hope that can get resolved. I still pray for that every night. But all of this sniping and picking because reform aren't right wing enough. I mean, grow up. We've all known on the right that James O'Brien is the most nasty.

Vindictive. Revolting. Dishonest little so andso in all of Great Britain. But what's so hilarious is that a massive civil war has just exploded at LBC, or as I call it, the Labour Broadcasting Company, because it is now so far to the left, and it's the lefties who are eating each other and revealing what a toxic little weasel James O'Brien really is. So let me explain. You might remember the hard leftist Sangeeta Miska was sacked from LBC last year. She disappeared from the scene. She was under some type of non-disclosure agreement, so she couldn't exactly explain the reasons why.

But effectively, the station was highly concerned about the fact that she was seeming to sort of advocate for a pro-Hamas position on a weekly basis on the airwaves. She, of course, would argue that she was pro-Palestinian. But James O'Brien, who is, let me tell you, just a shill now for LBC management because they pay his £400,000 paycheck to put his children through private school, he is desperate for it to be seen that the LBC management did nothing wrong because they were just cutting Sangeeta Misker loose because she was a flop. Terrible in the ratings. Now, you've got to think about this from a couple of different perspectives. Number one, that's a very, very nasty thing for you to put out there when you're talking about one of your colleagues. Oh, she lost her job because she was a disaster. I mean, she was a disaster for a whole load of

reasons, but it's not really the point in this case. Secondly, someone like James O'Brien, who claims to be standing up for the man, is actually now just the mouthpiece of a billionaire. Big business because he wants his paycheck more than anyone else. What I have found fascinating is that the left is now turning very much on James O'Brien. These revolting people are also understanding the fact that James O'Brien is even more revolting than them. Sol Stanilworth posted on XO, O'Brien claims Sangeeta Misker wasn't silenced by LBC for criticising Israel. He says it's a lie and accuses Sangeeta of deliberately allowing the lie to fester by staying silent, allowing people to believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

How is saying Sangeeta was sacked anti-Semitic? Sue Potanski, shameful. James fails to disclose that employees likely have to sign NDAs at Global, therefore legally Sangeeta Misker can't voice her experience without a risk of legal ruin. Stats prove this wasn't about viewing figures or conspiracy. I stand with her. Peter Oburn, I'm a great fan of James O'Brien, but I think the attack on Sangeeta Misker is out of order. Her silence clearly suggests she is bound by a confidentiality agreement and is therefore unable to respond and refute his version of events. Although I did like this from Mike Graham. No one sensible should be a fan of the ghastly,

hypocrite and failed journalist O-Virus. So what sparked all of this? Let me show you the extraordinary exchange on LBC, then I'll get analysis from the brilliant Alex Phillips. Let's watch. What happened to Sangeeta, even at LBC? You know... That's just Rolex, mate. I mean, you can say it because you've got free speech, but that's just crap.

Thank you. All right? We all sit in... I'll tell you something because it boresores me rigid this, and I can't believe that certain people have allowed this lie to be perpetuated. We sit in a room every three months, every single person that works here, we sit in a room every three months, they show us graphs of how our program is performing, right? Everybody knows when someone's vulnerable.

And it's not the graph of what audience you inherit when you come on air it's a graph of how your audience falls or rises during the duration of your program every single person in this building sits in that room and watches a graph for every single program every three months all right i don't get off topic no you said it you can't backtrack now mate you have decided you have decided to believe something that isn't true and the only person that can prove to you that it isn't true has decided to stay silent and allow people like you to believe slurs and anti-semitic conspiracy theories about her former colleagues so

I didn't make anti-semitic conspiracy theories about her former colleagues. I didn't make an anti-Semitic slur or anything. Yes, you are. You're claiming that someone has been censored or silenced when they haven't. But that's not anti-Semitic. How's that anti-Semitic? That in itself is what's wrong with everything. I am setting the record straight on something, OK? And the idea that somebody would be silenced for being critical of Israel during a phone in that is heavily critical of Israel is palpably absurd. You can dispute the fact that it's anti-Semitic. That's my opinion. And that is my freedom of speech that I am exercising, just as you are exercising yours.

But if you choose to come on this program and tell lies about every single one of my colleagues, I will push back, OK? And that is what you are doing. I sympathise with you because the lies have been deliberately allowed to fester by somebody who can only answer for their own conduct. But it is lies, OK? And if you want to come on this programme again, you are more than welcome. I mean, Alex Phillips, number one,

yes, it's quite beautiful to see all of the hard leftists at war with each other and civil war at LBC. I'm all for that. But it is quite an extraordinary position that James O'Brien is taking, isn't it? Sangeeta Miska, in his view, should come out publicly and say, no, no, no, I wasn't got rid of because I'm pro-Palestinian or pro-Hamas, however you look at it. I was got rid of because I was such a flop, such a failure. My ratings were so terrible. Yeah, I mean, James O'Brien is nasty. He's a bully. He's a pumped up ego. In fact, that's probably why he gets a lot of ratings, because people quite sadistically like watching him do the takedown. But I think he's a really unpleasant person and I wait for the day that something's revealed about him personally and he gets dragged through the court of public approval because I dare say there's

a lot that he does in his private life that is reprehensible just because he seems such an unpleasant man um but you know we both know that what happens when you leave a TV station is you're not allowed to talk about why you left that TV station. He will know that Sangeeta is under an NDA. And to sit there, there was many neat ways. If he was an intelligent man, a genuinely intelligent man, there were many neat ways of handling that call. And he deliberately did not. I think he rather enjoyed driving the knife in. Yeah, and I just, look, it's a very difficult one, isn't it? Because all of these people who are standing up for Sangeeta are equally awful. But I do just find the hypocrisy, Alex, of James O'Brien quite something. I mean, this is a man who Calvin McKenzie is quite rightly

constantly calling out because effectively, he is a middle class liberal. He initially found his success as a right winger. And he changed his position and he became further and further to the left when it suited him because that's where the LBC audience was going or more importantly I guess Alex where the LBC management was going then he led that internal coup against Nigel Farage which was completely despicable, completely against free speech, and actually was shameful of the management because it showed that they were going to allow one man to control that station. And quite recently, Katie Hopkins admitted that James O'Brien and Sheila Fogarty actually tried to ambush her while she was on air. So these are not good people. No, they're really awful, nasty people.

And this is what I said about him. I really don't like him at all. This is very much his playbook. And you're right. I don't think he represents anybody but himself. He's just one giant narcissistic ego and a bully to boot. At least that's my impression. I don't know him personally, but I think it'd be staggering to find out he's some lovely, genial, you know, open minded, open hearted fellow behind the scenes. And, you know, I feel sorry for Sangeeta because she's in a position where she can't say anything. And not only can she not say anything, she's now having all this speculation that she was thrown off air because she was rubbish. Which this woman, if she wants to be able to pick up and go forth and get another job in broadcasting, that's going to really be an albatross around her neck. You know, normally protocol is a station says, thank you very much. We've had a wonderful time broadcasting

together. Sangeeta is going to go on and pursue other projects. We wish her the very best. She'll be sorely missed at the station. You know, some sort of thing like that, that makes it sound like it was mutually agreed and that the person is going to be woefully missed. But quite the opposite has happened. And, you know, the station have let their sort of things about James O'Brien is he thinks he's top dog. You know, he basically believes he now runs the station and can say and do what he likes. And I think he needs to be reined in a bit. But harking back to what I was saying before about these divisions now on the right wing of politics and the new right of politics, we were just saying how delightful it is to sit there and watch the left wing self-cannibalise. Let us not forget that they

will be watching some of our spats and internal battles and saying the same about us. Very good point. Very, very good point. and i think if there is one person who is absolutely enjoying the reform uk civil war it is james o'brien and i i i do understand that i just wanted to share a post though from the aforementioned calvin mckenzie in regards to o'brien because i think alex this sometimes does show why his actions are so truly despicable. He wrote, Thanks to the LBC's lefty scumbag James O'Brien calling the nationwide thuggery, Farage riots, wholly untrue.

I hear the reform leader is now being protected by a security detail of eight. LBC owner Ashley Tabor King makes his money by turning the audience of O'Brien's untrue outbursts into advertising revenue. Mr. Tabor Ting comes from a highly respected and successful Jewish family. Dad has owned, along with business colleagues,

multiple Derby winners who fled Russia and the Pogroms. Therefore, right now and living in London, he will understand very clearly what it's like to be in fear of the Palestine-supporting mob. Grateful if he would speak to his station's management and get them to tell O'Brien to dial down the rhetoric before somebody is hurt. If anything were to happen to Farage, it will be on O'Brien. And I do think Calvin is completely right on that. Do you remember Nigel gave O'Brien the opportunity to say, actually, maybe I was wrong about the Farage riots and he didn't,

he doubled down. Yeah, that was vile. When the hashtag was pushed Farage riots and started being promoted online, that was really, really sick and despicable. Nigel at the time was in Hong Kong during those riots, meeting his very first grandchild. And the people who pushed that, I dare say that the Conservative Party had their hand in that. But the people who tried to personify rioting as somehow all going back to Nigel Farage don't realise they were putting his life at risk. And I remember seeing the Socialist Workers Party all start amassing outside reform hq and shouting nazi scum off our streets and they were holding placards and signs talking about stamping on the neck of fascism and things were so volatile i remember coming out of news uk where i present on talk and seeing loads

of police cars while all these riots were taking place i'm feeling unsafe wondering if, you know, they were going to come and start congregating outside News UK, because there's an MEP for the Brexit party. I remember walking to do interviews on College Green when the legacy media thought it was great fun to build a load of scaffolding so they could do all their broadcasting from outside while Steve Bray had his megaphone and all those people who looked like they're permanently on rag week, even though they're 60 years old with their EU berets were shouting things and waving their placards. And the legacy media thought this added colour when actually the studios are just, you know, 20 metres down the road. It didn't add colour. What it did is it meant the broadcasting was constantly interrupted. And for people like me as a Brexit party MEP to go and do an interview there, I had to go through a gauntlet 20 thick deep of people who are spitting on me and pulling chunks of hair out. I had to have police escorts to get to College Green to do those interviews.

And even with the police there, they still tried to hit you and grab you and spit on you. So this idea that if you're right wing, oh, it's fine, you've got some force field around you because you're the evil one, you're therefore resilient to acts of harm is nonsense. No other politician in the UK has faced the sort of violence and anger that Nigel has, including being hit right in the head with placards, having wet cement thrown at him, having milkshake thrown at him. I mean, if any one of these incidents could have turned out to be something far more critical, if the projectile had had a bit more weight to it. And so when people like James O'Brien try to personify really sort of, you know, flammable issues in the country, as Nigel Farage, he is definitely preparing Nigel for some pretty

unhappy events. Very, very well put. Very well put. Now, Alex Phillips, stand by, because it's not just the left that are in fighting. Katie Hopkins has just gone for Michelle Jubry. This is quite an extraordinary new route. Fascinated to know what you think about this. So stand by. I'll show you both sides in just one minute. But first, did you know that sleeping less than six hours per night doubles

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outspoken at checkout to save 15% on your first order. Try Evening Bean tonight and wake up feeling refreshed tomorrow. That's evening.ver.so forward slash outspoken. Use the coupon code outspoken at checkout to save 15%. But now back to the show. Breaking right now, an extraordinary row has broken out on the right between the independent commentator and YouTuber Katie Hopkins and GB News host Michelle Jubry. Now, both these women are former Apprentice stars who knew each other in the past, so maybe that's why there's a little bit of beef going on. But the row was sparked after Michelle Dubry admitted on GB News that she was cancelling her gym membership when she was told by staff that folk who are not women were going to disgracefully be allowed in her changing room.

Watch. He's actually telling me as a member is that the single sex female changing room is nothing of the sort. So, yeah, little boys with their mum, no problems. Yes, obviously female. When you start getting into the territory of, I quote, non-binary members and such like can enter this female changing room. You've lost me at this point because now this isn't a safe single sex space. This is a space where any member, a man, can just go into the changing room, tell me that he's a non-binary person and in he goes. I'm really not comfortable with that. And suffice to say, everybody,

I went on and cancelled my membership as a result of that. Now, Alex Phillips, Katie Hopkins didn't have a specific problem with the fact that Michelle Dubry has cancelled her gym membership, but she did call her out for somehow claiming that she's a freedom fighter, given her silence on other issues, like, for example, Tommy Robinson. I'll get your reaction, but first, let's see Katie's argument. Just asking where you were when me and Tommy were trying to get this message across 10 years ago. No, no one. Like people now go, I stand with Michelle Jubes. What's she called on GB News? I stand with, I stand with, she's cancelled her gym membership. Like, God love her and everything. But like, I stand with Michelle Jubes. She's cancelled.

She's cancelled her virgin gym membership. She's not a fucking Tommy Robinson is she oh well done you're brave enough to stand with someone who still has a job on GB News that's banned most of us that are the actual free speakers oh well done like you know it's very it's an important point we shouldn't have men in female changing rooms right I get it but like it's not the suffragettes is it all these people now coming out yeah i'm standing up for britain are you well where the f were you it's a bit late now isn't it we're fucked now when you were reporting me to the police simon danchuk you know that might have been the time when you should have been standing up, eh? Not to be bitter. I'm not bitter.

It's just funny. Now, Alex, I actually don't think she's been bitter. I know this will divide people, right? I know this will divide people, but I think Katie Hopkins really does have a point here because the point is, Jubilee operates very much within an Overton window that is considered acceptable on GB News and very often won't share what she really thinks about issues, including Tommy Robinson, including the vaccine.

I know that for a fact. But do you think Katie is being unfair? Sangeeta Maisak is under an NDA, so I can't answer to what James O'Brien was saying, who frankly is a bully. I think this is in the same boat, really. I mean, I love Michelle Juby. I adore that woman. I think she's wonderful and she's a complete original

and she is brave in many, many respects. She stood for UKIP back in the day in the Brexit party before the Overton window was where it is today. And I think there's now this sort of really unpleasant narcissistic tendency on the right wing where people want to say that they're the bravest, the first, and they said it and did it before anyone else did. And then when people are waking up going, oh, wow, mass immigration is a problem, instead of saying, yeah, isn't it? And being pleased that more people are, you know, part of now the campaign to actually do something about it.

Instead of, oh, how dare you say it now? You didn't say it before when I was saying it, when I got cancelled. Well, look, we're sorry you got cancelled. We're sorry that, you know, we should have listened to you. But it's almost like a sort of mean girls approach to stuff. And this is what people are now doing to Nigel. Nigel, who's led from the front and been so brave from the beginning. People have no idea how much that

man has sacrificed for 25 years to put into political debate the things we're now happily saying today. And now he's not going far enough. And people are saying, oh, Nigel, would you go even further and faster for us so you can be the one who ends up being attacked by a mad Islamist, so you can be the one who ends up not being on GB News anymore, so you can be the one who ends up being attacked by a mad Islamist. So you can be the one who ends up not being on GB News anymore. So you can be the one who ends up being cancelled or thrown into prison or whatever. You know, I don't like this idea of people saying I own the debate because I said it first. You know, I had a sense of that the other day and kind of, you know, did something similar where I sort of made the point when

I made the comments on News UK ages ago about on talk when it was talk tv about harassment female harassment on the streets by men from other cultures it went viral around the world because it seemed at the time like something nobody was saying well it's now turned into a big old debate where a lot of men for clicks are going like I I'm going to stand up for women's safety. And I sort of think, well, OK, that's great. Thank you very much. But can you also now look at other aspects of women's safety that you perhaps have been ignoring? But at the same time, I think we all need to take a little rain check because, you know, if suddenly, you know, you can fight a cause and win a cause only when it doesn't matter whether you get the recognition for doing so.

That is the point right now. And so, you know, I think Katie's funny. I do. But I just I didn't like that personally. I just thought that was totally unnecessary because what's Michelle done? You know, Michelle just made a Michelle just made a comment about finding out in her gym. Men were allowed into the changing rooms and saying, well, I'm not going to use that gym anymore. Fair play. Good on you.

Yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm sort of torn on this, Alex, because I think when you're cancelled, and I would now put myself in the cancelled camp like Katie. And she was very clear to point out, look, she's not just being bitter. But I guess it can be difficult when you sometimes see former colleagues who are being championed as great free speech warriors when you know that there are huge compromises they make on a daily basis. But I do think where Katie maybe has to be more understanding is that, okay, not everyone was there 10 years ago,

but we need people to get there as quickly as possible. When it comes to Jubilee, though, can I just make one point? She could speak out about Tommy Robinson on GB News. She could and she hasn't. And personally, I did sack her for that, then actually, sometimes that's worth it. I do find it inexcusable, actually, that GB News has not covered the total outrage of Tommy Robinson being in solitary confinement at all. And I don't think that's me trying to be morally pure about this. I just think that is an issue. It's happening right now. There is a court case on Thursday at the High Court. I will be there. Do you know what I mean? It is genuine news. Elon Musk is funding the case. And I know that deep down in her soul, Michelle Jubry knows

that this is wrong. So I do have a bit of a problem with that. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, I mean, maybe, but I also know, as do you, Dan, what that workplace environment can be like under certain people. Yeah, it's difficult, really difficult. Not everyone is made of the same stuff. Some people are more go-to and have the courage to throw caution to the wind and face the consequences. Michelle's got a little baby. She's got a family. This is an important job. No, I know, I know, you know, throw caution to the wind and face the consequences. Michelle's got a little baby, you know, she's got a family. This is an important job. I know, I know, I know.

People should just show some grace. Okay. It's a wonderful term about dignity and composure and fight against things. Don't personalize stuff and fight against individuals. I know I turned around early and said James O'Brien's a bully, that's because that's what he does he fights against individuals and I think you and I by and large campaign for stuff we bring news to people's attention we don't act like nasty little bitches in high school and sort of push people out of the group and say you're like this and you're like that and it's just not very edifying and I think Katie's funny but I don't understand why she did that because, you know, I didn't, I personally watched that and I didn't come away from it thinking,

ha ha, she's got, you know, isn't that hilarious? Does she have a point? People going, I stand with Michelle for cancelling her gym membership compared to I stand with Katie Hopkins for XYZ. Well, she might have a point in the sort of macrocosm of things, but if people can support Michelle Juby

for cancelling her gym membership then support her I mean so she should have done great exactly and the point is there's a whole range of issues that that presenters talk about you know this is this was just one subject on on Michelle Jubry's show there was one final uh media drama Alex that I wanted to ask you about over the weekend. This is when Elon Musk's dad, Errol Musk, appeared on Times Radio. Now, I actually really like Errol Musk. Again, that doesn't mean, and although I hate people who even feel they have to say this, it doesn't mean I agree with everything that Errol Musk says, but I think he's an interesting voice. Look, he's raised one of the greatest men in the world. I think it's fascinating that he takes an interest in the UK.

But I guess the response as a result of him talking about Tommy Robinson on Times Radio meant that this sort of elite class were criticising Times Radio and Stig Abel for even platforming him in the first place. It was quite an interesting exchange. So let's have a watch and I'll get your reaction on the back. One person, obviously, that everyone has seen that speaks sense is Tommy Robinson. But then they immediately come back to you and say, oh, but he didn't turn over the court hearing. No, no, no.

You only have to look at a person, speak speak once and then you know exactly what you can expect from them you know he's not an apologist but he's just a young man so people like it but also barrel again i wonder if you just read the wrong things sometimes that tommy robinson is in prison for contempt of court he libeled a 15 year old refugee which he himself accepted he's been convicted four times for different offenses he's quite a known celebrated racist he's no intellect by any standards of anyone in the entire world that all of those together i would say puts him well well well beyond the pale of possible leadership yeah no well you whatever that's your But you see, people actually don't work on that. They, you know, it's like, why does a woman like a man? It's very hard to say, and she sees things in him. And so one sees things in people. And you see certain things, and you see certain other things. He's a young man and he exemplifies the British spirit that we know about.

We know as people who actually leave for England and be in other places. And so... He doesn't exemplify my British spirit. It's not my pathologist. Yeah, he doesn't exemplify my British spirit. Well, that's because you live there, you see. Well, exactly. And I occasionally bump into facts and true things about the country.

My concern for both you and your son is that you read a certain version of Britain that isn't true. That's my worry, I think, in a lot of this. Do you think that Elon Musk, because he's a very powerful man, he controls a lot of how information is exchanged. Could you see him seriously getting behind a figure like

Tommy Robinson? Would he be able... You know, as you pointed out yourself, Tommy Robinson, young man he be able would you know you know as you pointed out yourself uh Tony Robbins young man he simply exemplifies the fact that he stands up for his country it's not like he's now the be all and end all answer but he certainly shouldn't be in solitary confinement and if I were to choose between your country being led by even little Tommy Robinson or steer karma. What is his name? He's called Steamer or something. I would,

I would choose, um, Tommy Robinson. And do you think he exemplifies what I would believe? Alex, sorry, I'm just laughing at times radio listeners, just their heads blowing up.

I liked it. I thought it was an interesting conversation. Don't think there was anything wrong with Times Radio doing that interview with Errol Mask whatsoever. No, of course not. And actually what he's saying about Tommy Robinson, you know, when, oh, blimmin' sit in there. You're presenting a radio show for the Times.

Where's your shirt? Sit up. Stop looking sloppy. Why are you dressed like a man child i mean i just i hate that i hate that sort of like i'm a new age cool centrist dad in my he's the ultimate centrist dad yeah oh god um but actually when he said oh he doesn't represent britain he's this and this and this i don't know, actually, that just shows how out of touch he is in his, you know, wearing his stupid little

cuff like this. He doesn't realise how out of touch he is with a lot of the country who, you know, drive white vans and have a pint in Weatherspoons. I said I don't like making things personal. I'm not going to go on a, you know,

a tirade about Stig Abel. But there was something really sort of, oh, grating. He's the ultimate member of the elite class, isn't he? Ultimate member of the elite class. He just sums it up. Alex Phillips, you're just class. Thank you so much. And, of course, make sure you follow that Alex woman.

Subscribe to her brilliant sub stack uh it's recommended via mine alex thank you so much thanks now lots of feedback coming in from you today uh of course on this issue of the reform civil war and fog says rupert lowe would be mad to go back and why does it have to be racism just because it's about Zia? Freddie, says Matt Goodwin, seems to have turned into a bit of a grifter. Look, I don't necessarily think he's a grifter, but I think he wants to be part of Reform UK. That's the big issue here. Luke Edward says Trump's posting of migrants being deported back to prison in their home country from the USA is really hitting home. The Outer Limits says, I can understand with only five MPs, reform cannot present a shadow cabinet,

but surely enough potential candidates who have elected could be for a shadow cabinet. This is where reform are lacking, in my honest opinion. Scottish TD says, reform isn't our last option. We have four years ahead of us. They have shown their cards and it's time for another party to rise up and take their place and devon seven writes i don't trust nigel fraudge anymore i don't trust reform and have cancelled my membership and sadly i don't agree with alex on this. Plus, thank you very much to Karl Brockwell for his super chats today. And he says, if people don't get behind UKIP, the UK is lost. So Karl arguing that there is another option in

the form of Nigel Farage's former party, now led by Nick Tenconey, of course, a regular here on Outspoken. OK, Greatest Britain, Uni and Jackass time. Uni and Jackass, let me remind you of your nominees. The Off-Communist, nominated by Mick Cass of the Dan Wilton Outspoken Club on X, because they are now planning on censoring stuff with the Online Safety Act coming into force. Narendra Kerr, nominated by Beth. Sorry, I'm going to get this one right today. Bec Catherne Q Vist. I hope I got that right. And it's because she was a race bait and extremely rude and disrespectful towards Lady Colin Campbell in our debate. And Lindsay Hoyle, nominated by Ted Hodgson for a disgusting, for being a disgusting imitation of a socialist with all of his freebies.

Of course, this is because Lindsay is facing fresh scrutiny after appointing a former Gibraltar lobbyist as an advisor with parliamentary access privileges. Okay, the results. A close one today. In third place with 25% of the vote, Lindsay Hoyle. In second place with 34% of the vote, Norinda Kerr. And it's Rupert Lowe, the Axed Reform UK MP, the reason being for standing up to Farage and the establishment. And he's still fighting for us ordinary people. Rupert has worked so much harder than the whole Reform Party rolled together.

And of course, you can watch my interview, exclusive interview, the only interview he's done on this whole mess with Rupert Lowe you will find it on YouTube now coming up in the uncancelled after show on substack www.outspoken.live it's nearly d-day for Prince Harry as the drug-taking Duke's immigration records are set to be released within the next 24 hours but will he be saved by the redactions? We'll team up with the Royal News Network for stateside analysis. www.outspoken.live. But we're back tomorrow live at 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Please hit subscribe if you're watching right now on YouTube or Rumble. Most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you. We'll see you on the after show on Substate though, I hope in just one moment.