Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE LASHES OUT IN REFORM UK CIVIL WAR AS BEN HABIB RESPONDS LIVE ON OUTSPOKEN

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

A Reform UK civil war breaks out after its former Deputy Leader Ben Habib quits the party with a broadside against the party’s leadership, prompting a brutal response from Nigel Farage. Responding live today on Outspoken, the man himself Ben Habib is here. Also live on the show today: The first interview with Cameron Bell, the woman jailed for simply streaming on TikTok unrest after the Southport Massacre. PLUS: State sanctioned suicide will become legal in the UK after Prime Minister Slippery Starmer voted in supported of assisted dying legislation. So has Britain changed forever? AND: A new Labour sleaze scandal, after the Transport Secretary Louise Haigh is forced to resign for a fraud conviction the deep state and MSM covered up. THEN: In the Uncancelled Aftershow, Angela Levin with bombshell new royal revelations as the Daily Mail claims King Charles is open to welcoming Prince Harry and Meghan Markle back to the Royal Family. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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but everyone knows your brother is the grill guy, and it's highly likely he'll be backseat barbecuing all night. So be it. Impress even the toughest of critics with freshly prepared Canadian barbecue favorites from Sobeys. No bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wotton. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 107. Click and subscribe to our brand new independent news venture. Turn on the notification bell too, then you'll be alerted to our brand new live shows, uncancelled interviews and special royal episodes. Breaking right now, a Reform UK civil war breaks out after its former deputy leader Ben Habib quits the party with a broadside against Nigel Farage and Richard Tice.

And I find that frankly unacceptable. And I would say I'm resigning as a member of reform. I can't resign as a member of reform because I'm not a member. Nigel hit back last night on GB News. Well, that was the real champagne moment of the day. It was a good day. But Ben Habib announcing he's not with us really was the absolute icing on the cake. Having earlier snapped and storming out of an interview with Sly News. You can have your fun at Sky News. We've got 100,000 members.

I've got a million followers on TikTok. Dame Andrea Jenkins has just joined us. She's our candidate for Greater Lincolnshire. You've had your fun. I'm off for lunch. Thank you. Responding live today on Outspoken, the man himself, Ben Habib, is here. Also live on the show today, the first interview with Cameron Bell. The young woman and carer jailed for simply streaming on TikTok unrest after the Southport massacre. Her case shocked the world and prompted ex-boss Elon Musk to decry the UK as a police state. But after her release from prison yesterday, Cameron Bell joins me live for her first

ever interview. And I'm very much looking forward to speaking to Cameron soon. She's going to be with us alongside Mark Heath. Also coming up on the show today, state-sanctioned suicide will become legal in the UK after Prime Minister Sipri Stama voted in support of assisted dying. So has Britain just changed forever? And a new Labour sleaze scandal after the Transport Secretary Louise Haig is forced to resign for a fraud conviction the Deep State and MSM covered up. Then in the uncancelled after show, Angela Levin, she's here with bombshell new royal revelations as the Daily Mail claims King Charles is open to welcoming Prince Harry and Meghan back into the royal family. And the uncancelled after show is now broadcast exclusively every day and on demand via my sub stack. You can Google it or get to it right now by visiting

www.outspoken.live. A monthly paid membership will give you access to the after show, my exclusive reporting and columns, access to our live chats and a chance to join a thriving community. Most importantly, it's a safe space free of censorship and it's ending very soon. So let me just give it one more plug. Black Friday, because today actually is Black Friday, right? I hope you're spending up big. But please, if you are spending up big, spend up to support independent journalism. Just £3.50 a month plus VAT at the moment today. And that gives you all of the access to that. But most importantly, I hope, allows me to keep making this

show because all of your funds are funneled back into the production of Outspoken every day we have no one pulling the strings no big billionaires behind us this is a viewer supported show it means the world I do ask though that you subscribe either way, because you can subscribe for free, and that's a huge way to help build the Outspoken community, our family. So let me give you the address once more, www.outspoken.live. But now, let's go. And Ben Habib, the former deputy leader of Reform UK, joins me live now. Ben, wow. You certainly set the cup amongst the pigeons yesterday. What I want to do with you first, if it's OK, Ben, is look at all of the key moments of the past 24 hours, and I'll get you to react as we go. So first up, you release a dramatic video announcing your departure from Reform UK on X Watch.

And I think there have been a few more defections from the Tory party to reform, and all of these are trumpeted. But it's our people that should be trumpeted. It's the movement that we created that should be trumpeted, not the people joining from the Tory party who are part of a party that delivered the country into the peril in which we now find ourselves. So I can't understand this obsession with recruiting Tories. Sure, there are some good Tories that are worth recruiting. Suella Braverman, for example. But why would you want to open the party up wholesale to defections from the Conservative Party? And Ben, before I get you to respond, I want to show you what Nigel Farage told your colleague, Michelle Dubry, on GB News after your announcement. What would you say, I have to ask you as well, you've got Andrew Jenkins in.

One of the things that many GB News viewers have been in touch about is Ben Habib. What's happened there for anyone that's not followed that twist and turn? Yeah. Well, that was the real champagne moment of the day. I mean, it was a good day, but Ben Habib announcing he's not with us really was the absolute icing on the cake. Look, after the election, Ben didn't get elected, other people did, and he and David Bull had been the deputy leaders under Richard Tice. And I said, Ben, David, I'm really sorry,

but I want to make Richard Tice the deputy because he's in the House of Commons. He will literally deputise for me when he's there and I'm travelling around the country. And David Bull accepted that and is very much a part of the organisation. And poor old Ben felt bitter about it. And he's attacked me more in public than the Labour Party have. He's gone very bitter, very twisted. It's very sad. The fact that he's walked away, frankly, is a huge relief. Well, there you go. There you go, indeed. Ben Habib, the floor is over to you. How do you want to respond to Nigel? Well, I was on GB News earlier in the day with Martin Dordney,

and Martin asked me about my feelings towards Nigel. And actually, I said, I love Nigel. And we could all get together for a group hug if that's what would settle matters. But this isn't about personalities. This isn't about me being bitter. This is not about me attacking Nigel. By the way, I've never attacked Nigel. No ad hominem attacks. I've never accused him of being bitter or being, you know, throwing his toys out of a pram, not playing. My criticisms of the party have been just that. Criticisms of Reform UK.

Many made privately before they were made publicly, because privately it was impossible to get any traction with my criticisms. And we can go through what my criticisms are, if you like. But Nigel is very wide of the mark when he thinks that I'm bitter because I was sacked as deputy leader. I looked it up. I looked up when Richard Tice invited me to be deputy leader and it was at the sort of beginning end of August 23, August 20, September, sorry, beginning end of September 2023 and I did not accept until the 3rd of October and the reason I didn't accept until the 3rd of October is because I actually, rather like I didn't initially want to join Reform UK, I didn't want to be its deputy leader. I wrestled with the invitation. Obviously, I was flattered to be invited to be deputy leader, but I didn't want

to be deputy leader. I'm chief executive of a business. I'm running my own show. But in the end, I accepted that position because Richard convinced me and Paul Oakden, who was chief executive at the time, that the party would stand a much better chance of getting itself on the map. Remember, we were only polling 5% or 6% back in those days if I were to step up and take a more prominent role. I don't care who the deputy leader is. I'm only in politics for one reason.

I've said this to Nigel and many others, and I'm sure on your show repeatedly. I'm only in politics because the United Kingdom, as with Western civilization, as I see sure, on your show repeatedly. I'm only in politics because the United Kingdom, as with Western civilisation, as I see it, faces an existential crisis. Sixth time. We're in trouble. We're in deep trouble. And all of us who care about our nation states

are obliged, in my view, if they're able, to get up and fight for their countries. I am able. Luckily, I'm quite wealthy. My children have grown up. And I'm not in it for private political advancement. I couldn't care less whether my bun's on a green seat or not. Frankly, I'd rather not be in Parliament. But if I had to be in Parliament to save the United Kingdom, I'd do it. So this has got nothing to do with any of the spurious reasons offered up by Nigel.

Nigel, I'm afraid, did launch an ad hominem attack on me last night. I was on a plane at the time. Someone sent me a voice message of what he said, but he just attacked me, said I was bitter. I was twisted. I wanted to be deputy. It's got nothing to do with it. I'm sure you've seen my video, Dan. You wouldn't have had me on if you hadn't seen it. And I've watched it all. And you explain it all. Absolutely. There's not a single attack on Nigel. Sure. I disagree with Nigel over Brexit. I disagree with Nigel over mass deportation. I disagree with him over my concerns about the rate of demographic change in this country. I disagree with the wholesale welcoming of Tories into Reform UK. These are ideological differences, and they were cited. And of course, it's impossible to make the case for my ideological position if the party isn't democratized. And the biggest battle that I've been having with Reform UK,

which I've been having privately before I joined the party, continued to have while I was part of the party, and I'm still or had until at least yesterday having with it, was the need to democratize, the need for Nigel to give up being the controlling shareholder in the company because if he gives up being the controlling shareholder if it's given if control of the party is given over to a broader group of people then actually you can debate ideology in amongst those who are part of the party got very personal ben because not from me from the spectator posted on x and so this was during I believe, the media huddle after the live press conference yesterday. Asked about Ben Habib's resignation from reform. Nigel Farage bursts into a rendition of the sun has got its hat on. Hip, hip, hip, hooray. Now, Tim Montgomery of formerly of Conservative Home, he posted about this. I like Nigel Farage, but this was unnecessary. Ben Habib is a good man who served the Brexit and Reform Party cause very faithfully. I hope we'll continue to hear his voice in the media again. And I completely agree with Tim Montgomery. But what I just want to try and find out, Ben, because I completely understand, and we'll obviously go into it more. I understand where you're coming from ideologically, of course. But where has this personal bitterness come from with Nigel?

Because, for example, when I departed GB News, Nigel was very honourable with me. There were no personal attacks and he stayed supportive and we've stayed friends and stayed close. So why does he seemingly have it in for you? Some people have said to me that he viewed you as a threat. Do you think that's what this is about well i mean naturally you need to ask nigel why he's got it in for me on an ad hominem basis because if you look it back and i challenged nigel or indeed any other individual watching this program or um you know interested in the matter to go back over the last six months seven

months since i was sacked as leader and find personal attacks I've made on Nigel. You won't find a single personal attack made on Nigel. Yes, I disagree with him on Brexit. I've always said Brexit's not done. In fact, when I joined Reform UK, I insisted that Richard Theiss put it in writing that Brexit was not done because I disagreed with Nigel, I didn't want to join a party which accepted the Brexit, the so-called Brexit that Boris Johnson gave us, because I don't recognise it to be Brexit. Northern Ireland has been left behind, etc. That's an ideological difference. Now, Nigel may disagree with me on Brexit, and he may even be affronted by my challenging him on it. But it is not a personal attack.

It is something that I feel is crucial for the country. The vote for Brexit was a vote for the nation state that you and I both agree, Dan, is facing extinction. So the vote for Brexit is something absolutely critically important to get right and deliver. And I know how passionately you feel about the Northern Ireland issue too. But look, there's a couple of other clips that I want to watch along with you, Ben, and allow you to respond to.

I think it's important because Julia Hartley Brewer on Talk hosted Richard Tice. He replaced you as deputy leader, but he had been your ally in the past. However, there has been this split between the two of you over Richard's description of Tommy Robinson supporters has been that lot. But let's watch this interview now. And I'll get you to respond off the back. We know that at least one of your former sort of leading lights very unhappy about his defections from the tour is ben habib who used to be in the job you're in now as deputy leader he has said in the last few minutes that he has quit the party he's concerned about the policies on northern

ireland he says that nigel farage is apathetic to the issue of the democratic changes in this country from mass immigration he wants deportations as policy he also says your party's not a democratic party it's still technically a limited company entirely owned and controlled by nigeria and not a democratic political party what do you say to that well that's the joy of free speech and democracy bens entitles his view but his view is clearly not shared by the tens of thousands of people who are adjoining reform. We actually had a vote at the conference to change the constitution.

So that's going through with the Electoral Commission so that it is a fully membership-owned company limited by guarantee. So all of that change is happening. People are voting with their feet. We're getting great results in by-elections every Thursday. We won two just last week in Kent. We got great results in Scotland. So we're making huge progress. And the fact that we've now got former Tory MPs defecting to us and wanting to stand for us is a very significant factor. So, Ben, you had always been close to Richard Tice,

but in your video quitting the party, you specifically pointed to the comments that he made about Tommy Robinson supporters as being part of the reason behind your departure. Yeah, so, I mean, that was one of the ideological differences I had with the party. And there's a propensity, I think, for people on our side of the debate, nationists, if I may call us that, you know, those who want to protect our country. I don't think we're right wing, by the way. We fall into the trap of saying we're right wing, but we're nationists.

There's a propensity of people on our side of the debate to throw our colleagues and kin under a bus in the pursuit, I think, of trying to sanitise ourselves, trying to make us appealable to Sky News and BBC and all the people who watch Sky News and BBC. We're prepared to chuck people under a bus. And the reference of that lot was made to the Unite the Kingdom march that took place, I think, on the 20th or 21st of September. Yes. And Tommy was actually in jail by that point. He was in jail. And I think various accounts say there were between 50,000 and 100,000 people there. And I can't make any case for finding 50 to 100,000 people who believe in the United, from a multiracial background, by the way, all there, I can't make any case for saying that lot and eschewing their support. They no doubt voted for reform in the general election. Tommy Robinson directed his supporters to vote

for reform during the general election. And I don't think it's a very sensible political stance to take to tell those who voted for you not to do so again. It's not going to get the party to where it needs to go. But I've got an issue with that. There has been the other side of the party. And I wanted to play part of this interview with Alex Phillips on Talk TV yesterday, because you were former colleagues after the interview. She was very positive about you said you're a very honorable man, but things did get heated during the interview, Ben, you know,

she remains an ally of Nigel Farage and the clear impression that people like her feel is that you could have done this privately. You could have done this behind closed doors. So I just want to play part of this clash between you and Alex, and then we'll talk about it after. Democratic unit that is the United Kingdom. Surely you'd have been in a far better position to do that in a political party rather than...

Not in a political party controlled by one man. If you're standing for the democratically... If you're standing for the constitutional democratic unit that is the United Kingdom, and you keep banging on about democracy, and you say the British people must have the right to direct the government properly, you can't then say, I don't trust my own people to direct the party.

It seems to me the problem here now is that you would rather sort of sling mud at reform. I'm not slinging any mud at reform. Well, you are, aren't you? You're saying that the party won't democratise. Well, they haven't. They said they would do it. A constitution was produced.

I was told, or the world was told, that the finest legal minds in the United Kingdom were working on that constitution. Actually, when it was produced, it was a document that had already been rejected by me 18 months earlier. There were minor tweaks, and I'd be surprised if any half-decent legal mind even had a look at it, let alone wrote the document. And these are big issues. These are big issues, Alex. Well, they might think that the biggest issues are trying to organise the party to fight in the forthcoming local elections

and make them deal with deal with reforming the constitution at a later date so the sense i get from alex ben is that she is and there's a lot of people who feel this way and i understand this position it's like oh we love you ben but we want you in the tent and isn isn't this more important? Isn't it more important to unite the right? I would say that's where she was coming from, because, of course, she remains personally incredibly close and loyal to Nigel. I mean, it may be politically expedient to say in the party, but if you stay in a party that is essentially not democratic, you have a single point of weakness, in this case, Nigel Farage. If Nigel Farage were to be hit by a bus, or if he

changed his mind and decided he wanted to do something else, our entire efforts would be undermined. It is absolutely vital that if Reform UK is to succeed, if it's to promote the ideology that the democratic unit of the United Kingdom needs to be protected and promoted, if it believes in the democracy which it says it does, and it believes that British people can be trusted to direct the leadership of this country, to govern the country, it should trust its own people to direct the leadership of reform, to manage reform. And I've been having this debate with the party for years. And people say, well, Ben, do it privately. I've done it privately for years. I brought it into the public domain when the private pleadings repeatedly failed.

One of the drawbacks about private pleadings is people don't know they're going on. So when you make it public, they say, why weren't you doing it in private? Well, let me just tell everyone I've been doing it in private. And, you know, I was really gobsmacked, frankly, when Zeyar Yousafzai said he had the finest legal minds working on it day and night, and they produced a document that had already been around for a year and a half. I was also gobsmacked, frankly, when Nigel Farage said he was going to convert the company that's limited by shares to one limited by guarantee, when I know that legally that's not possible. You can't do it. You need to set up a new company. And Richard Pryce said in his response to Julia on talk that, you know that it's now with the Electoral Commission. It's not with the

Electoral Commission. This new constitution, such as it is, even though I don't like it, hasn't been put to the Electoral Commission, nor has any new structure to the party. And it's been two months since the conference. You can do that in 24 hours. I could get a new company set up, and I could apply to the Electoral Commission's online application form. It takes five seconds to do it. They haven't done it. And I just want to say one more thing before I finish. Julia beautifully summed up my criticisms of the party when she was speaking to Richard yesterday. And there's not a single personal criticism of Richard or Nigel or anyone. They're all issues, either of policy, ideology, or the

constitution of the party. These are important things. And having made the case for all these things privately, and then making them publicly, and getting effectively not having, you know, effectively the leadership being economical with the truth and then blocking me, that was the final straw from meeting members of Reform UK, I decided enough is enough. I can't, when you opened this segment, you said the civil war in Reform UK uk actually i haven't mounted a civil i haven't promoted a civil war dan i've vacated the scene because i've done all i can both privately and publicly to try and get reform to the right place and i want to ask about what's next in in one second but first it did feel like the pressure had got to nigel yesterday because he snapped during an interview with Sly News.

Now, in some ways, I don't blame him because Sly News were hectoring him over James McMurdoch and the fact that he had had this conviction over 20 years ago. But I just want to get your reaction because there's been, again, a real split about whether Nigel was right to storm out of this interview. It involves being honest, though. Are you not concerned that he lied about what he did? Did he? He wasn't vetted. He wasn't vetted. James McVerdock was one of those many candidates who wasn't vetted at all by the party. Look, I didn't know any of this when I took him back over as leader. So you said you're going to put in place the most vigorous vetting system in place now. Do you think James Murdoch would not go through this new vetting system?

You can have your fun at Sky News. We've got 100,000 members. I've got a million followers on TikTok. Dame Andrea Jenkins has just joined us. She's our candidate for Greater Lincolnshire. You've had your fun. I'm off for lunch. Thank you. Ben, your reaction? Well, that's the first time I've seen that, because as you might have gathered, I was abroad yesterday.

I was on a plane and I came back last night. But I think that was actually a strategic exit by Nigel. I think he had slightly cornered himself in the debate with Sky News. I love the way you call them, Sly News. It makes me smile. He slightly allowed himself to be cornered by saying James Murdoch hadn't been vetted. The implication being, of course, that if he had been vetted, he

wouldn't have passed. And Sly News went straight onto that position saying, well, had you vetted him, would he have passed? And suddenly I think Nigel thought, oh, dear, OK, that's not good. So I think that was a strategic exit. It was probably the best he could make out of that situation at that time. And it was a seasoned politician's response to a difficult position. Ben, you have a big following. A lot of people are going to be wondering what you do next.

Are you considering setting up your own political party? Would you consider joining a more purely conservative party like UKIP? What are you thinking? So I'm still thinking the United Kingdom is facing an existential threat. So I'm not thinking the United Kingdom is facing an existential threat. So I'm not leaving the political battlefield, but saving our country. I'm not into think tanks. I think think tanks are all good fun and you can all sit around a table and think. But actually, you can't deliver any change. So it has to be through the ballot box that it's done. And then the question is, which political party and how do you get there? And frankly, I'm going to have a bit of a break. I'm going to go on campaigning and

so on, but I'm going to have a bit of a party political break and just see how things pan out over the next few months. But I will be back. I will be back. Absolutely. One shape or form or another. Well, we've got a live poll running today, Ben. Who is your favourite? 1% Dame Andrea Jenkins, 12% Alex Phillips, 33% Nigel Farage, 54% Ben Habib. So you're doing well with the outspoken audience, Ben. So I think people are going to miss you. Yeah, I think people are going to miss you. Well, Dan, they won't miss me. I'm right here and I'm going to go on fighting. I'm flattered by that poll. What I would say to everyone is please don't be disheartened. Just because I've left reform, it may be the wake up call reform needed to

democratise and do the right thing. I hope it is. And I hope reform succeeds. And I hope I'm put out of business. That's what I want. I want the country saved. I want reform to do well. I want the country saved. And I want to be forced out of politics. That would be a dream. Breaking right now, the UK has changed this afternoon with state-sanctioned suicide set to be made legal after both Sipri Starmer and Rachel Thieves backed the assisted dying legislation which passed Parliament

narrowly. Now this issue has divided all parties actually, so while Robert Jenrick of the Conservatives put up a very strong moral argument, some were very surprised to see Reform UK MPs like Lee Anderson, Richard Tice and Rupert Lowe vote in favour. Now I have some strong views about the fact that this entire vote was inspired by Esther Ranson. I'll show you why in just a moment. But first, Ben Habib, I know that you are very much against the concept of assisted dying. How dangerous do you think this decision is today? I think it's deeply dangerous. I don't think it matters what checks and balances are ostensibly in the bill, which will become the act. And it looks like it's going to become an act because, as we all know, once you of the state in our lives, that recognises, for example, Dan, that we have a two-tier criminal justice system. If you're about to interview a lady who system to jail people for what they said,

what do you think the state will eventually be doing with the power to being able to kill people? I know it's terrifying. And I find, look, I know Esther Anson. I've known Esther Anson for years. I have no problem with Esther Anson personally. Absolutely horrific that she is currently battling this potential life-ending cancer. However, Ben, I do have issues that morally she's been put on a pedestal over this issue. Because during the COVID pandemic, Esther Anson, and she actually did this on my former show on GB News, but Esther Anson made it clear that she believed if people refuse to be vaccinated against COVID, that they should not be treated by the NHS, that they should be left to die. And this is all part of this very slippery moral slope where we are heading with this legislation. But just a reminder, and as I say, I don't say this with any form of ill will towards Esther,

but I do think it's important just to see how people who are in support of this bill plan to weaponize the NHS. Watch this. So you would want to ban the unjabbed from being able to access health services? Now I'm saying you've got to make that decision yourself. It's your choice. If you decide that you don't want a vaccine or a booster, then you can decide not to go to hospital however ill you get. And that is your right. So you would leave the unjabbed at home to die if they had a heart attack, if they suffered from a stroke? That's their choice.

If they're unjabbed, if they take the decision they're not going to use the medical evidence, follow the science, as we say, recognize, because what the boosters do is not only protect you they protect other people because you transmit the infection far less although you can still transmit even if you are triple j ben habib do you see what i do do you see what i do completely i completely see what you mean i mean there's a huge contradiction there isn't? People can die at home just because they're the detriment of the nation state, the majority, and essentially democracy. And it works a bit like this.

So the reason we all had to lock down was because every individual's life had to be protected. And it didn't matter that the majority would otherwise have been fine. The majority had to take the lead to every individual life and it was through that prism that people like Esther Ranson who are arch liberals were making the argument that you either get jabbed or you know die at home on your own. Lockdowns were fine because the individual needed to be protected, jabs were required because the individual needed to be protected. What was sensible and correct for the majority was irrelevant. And in order to promote that,

they would also shut down free speech. Then you come to the assisted dying thing, and it's the same issue. The argument essentially is that you as an individual have the right to kill yourself if you want to. You should have that right. And so Esther Anson will make that case. And there is joined up thinking, at least, because she's consistent in her flawed ideology. She's consistently flawed. But of course, when you remove the right, when you give the state the right, rather, sorry, forgive me, when you give the state the right to put people down, that is very detrimental to the majority of the people in this country who won't face these predicaments as they get up.

The majority of people don't get to a position where they would just love to be put down. These are very rare incidental cases. And we do have a system for it, palliative care, which could be improved. And we have do not resuscitate and so on. And so what Esther Ransom is doing is that extreme form of liberalism which is dictating the agenda and we need to pare back the state which forces

this agenda on us because it thinks it must do whatever is required to protect and promote the individual and the the the the the interest and the rights of the majority need to be shut down. And so that's another reason why ideologically, if you're a Democrat, you should be against the assisted dying bill. I wanted to ask you too about Rupert Lowe, the Reform UK MP. I've actually been such a big fan of Rupert since he's entered Parliament. He's done lots of incredible things. He's donating his salary to charity every month. But he's copped a lot of flack for his decision to vote

in this legislation, which remember is a conscience vote, based on some sort of straw poll in his great Yarmouth constituency. So I want to share what he posted justifying this, Ben. He said, Assisted dying, I have my own views, of course, but on such an emotive issue, I thought it was right to consult my constituents. I have been running a local, quote, referendum on whether the people of Great Yarmouth supported assisted dying or not. The poll closed last night and the results are as follows. 1,181 constituents participated. Their eligibility to vote as a Great Yarmouth resident was verified. 892 voted in favour of Assisted Dying.

289 voted against Assisted Dying. My constituents have spoken and that is how I will vote tomorrow. Ben, the right way of doing things? I mean, I understand why Rupert may have done what he did, because he obviously didn't feel clear in his own mind of where the vote should be. So he decided to consult his constituents. By the way, he's been a fantastic constituency MP. He's so brilliant. He's always, you know, representing his constituents case. And I, you know, I think Rupert's a first class individual, but he left the decision to his constituency to decide. And as we know, constituencies, I don't know the number of

people in his, but vary from 70 to 80,000. And I would just say that I think 1,000 out of 70 to 80,000 is a very small sample of the constituency. So I'm not sure I would have placed much emphasis on the 1,000 who did vote, the results of that vote. I mean, I feel quite strongly against the assisted. I feel very strongly against the assisted dying bill because we have a two-tier criminal justice system. How can you trust the state in matters of life or death when you can't trust them whether or not to lock you up for a tweet? And on that basis alone, I would have voted against it. So if I'd had the ability to counsel Rupert, I would have said, Rupert, ignore.

I wouldn't do a poll with your constituents. I would go with you're their representative and this is how I do it. Which is how it's meant to work. Now, another sleaze scandal has hit this new Labour government today. Astonishing this. The Transport Secretary Louise Haig forced into a resignation because she had a fraud conviction. Yes, it was spent, but it's very clear to me that she wasn't honest

about this. The most shocking thing, though, is that Mr. Clean, Keir Starmer, knew all about it, or at least knew about it to some extent, while deciding to make her a cabinet minister. Now, this is a complicated story. So this was her justification as to why she pled guilty to fraud. Misleading the police over an apparently stolen work phone. Now, we put this to Louise Hay and her team, anddd, ac maen nhw wedi'i ddysgu'n llawer o ddiwedd iawn i ni, yn ddysgu o'u safbwynt eu hunain beth a ddodod yma. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn werth darllen y ddiwedd hwn i ddatblygu beth y mae hi'n ei ddweud a'i safbwynt ei hun. Mae hi'n dweud, yn 2013, roeddwn i wedi cael fy nghymryd ar gyfer y nos. Roeddwn i'n dyn ifanc ac roedd yr profiad yn rhyfeddol. Roeddwn i wedi'i adrodd i'r polis ac wedi rhoi list o'r hyn rwy'n credu wedi cael ei wneud, gan gynnwys ffôn ffôn gweithioaredd sydd wedi cael ei anfon gan fy mhrydreid.

Yn ddiweddar, ddysgwyd nad oedd y ffôn yn gwestiwn wedi cael ei wneud. Yn ystod y gynharach, fe wnes i gael ei anfon gyda ffôn gweithgaredd arall. Roedd y dewis gweithgaredd arall yn cael ei swithio ar ddiffyg yn y polis, ac fe wnes i ofyn i ddod i mewn i ofyn. Roedd fy myfyrwyr yn cynghori i mi beidio â chyfweli yn y cyfweliad hwnnw, ac rwy'n anghymryd y cyweliad hwnnw ac rwy'n angen ymdrinio ar y cyngor hwnnw. Mae'n mynd i ddweud, fe wnaeth y gwylfa ystyried y peth i'r CPS ac fe wnaeth i ddod yn ôl i'r Magistraffau Southwch. O ran cyngor fy ngwylfa, fe wnaeth i ddweud fy ngwylfa, er bod hyn yn

ffrindiau gwirioneddol o'r rhan nad oeddwn i wedi gwneud unrhyw gwaith. Roedd y Magistraffau yn cydnabod yr holl argwymau hyn a gafodd i mi y canlyniad o'r llall o bosibl, yn y brach, o'r cyflog. Felly mae hi'n dweud bod hyn yn ymdrin, gave me the lowest possible outcome in brackets of discharge available. So she is saying that this was essentially a mistake, a misunderstanding, but that she went to police after this got flagged and didn't say anything and then went into court when she was facing these convictions while a parliamentary candidate and pled guilty and admitted to them, even though she says at the time this was all a mistake. Mind-bending that, mind-bending, yeah right. But then, then Sly News actually revealed what multiple sources are saying of what really happened. We have three sources, three separate sources

who tell a different story. They say that the reason why that false report was made to the Mae gennym tri llwythyr, tri llwythyr gwahanol, sy'n dweud stori gwahanol. Maen nhw'n dweud bod y rheswm pam y cwestiwn amdani a gafodd i'r polis yn cael ei wneud ar gyfer gwaith personol ar rhan o Louise Haig. Mae gennym hefyd ddwy llwythyr sy'n dweud, ar y pryd roedd hi'n gweithio yn Aviva, bod hi wedi colli ei swydd yno, gan ddilyn ymchwil mewnol yn Aviva. Felly mae'n ffigur cyffredinol, cyfnod cyffredinol o amgylcheddau sy'n digwydd and following an internal investigation at Aviva. So it's a complicated picture, a complicated set of circumstances that happened. You can imagine the reaction to this. Harry Cole, Sun's political editor, wrote,

if this had been revealed about a Tory cabinet minister, Starmer would have been doing a live broadcast in front of a union jack by now. Chris Rose posted a picture of Louise alongside Rachel Reeve saying everyone in this photo needs to resign. One down, one more to go, I guess, Chris. And Alex Armstrong wrote, it seems like Starmer's entire government is full of compulsive liars. If they can lie on their CV, mislead about their expenses and donors and lie to the police, you better believe they are lying to you. Keir said he was cleaning up politics, clearly yet another lie. Now the thing is, Ben Habib,

there's two ways to look at this, isn't there? Because yes, it was a spent conviction. And of course, people should be able to move on with their lives once they've done their time. But Ben, I'm prepared to say she can come and sue me if she wants. Louise Haig is not telling the truth about what happened. She didn't tell the truth to Keir Starmer either. I mean, I think it's a ridiculous line of argument that I pleaded guilty because I thought that was the right easy way out of something. If you're innocent and you're facing a criminal conviction, you fight your corner. I mean, I would never plead guilty to something of which I was not guilty. Why would you do it?

It makes no sense, particularly since she was a parliamentary candidate at the time. It also testifies to her not being very bright because she must have realised as a parliamentary candidate that this is a very serious issue that's going on. And I think losing her job, did you say she lost a job at Aviva or was she suspended? Either way, for Aviva to have taken action against her is very serious. Aviva would have had their own internal processes and they would have listened to her sympathetically. They would have. It wouldn't have been a judicial process where under the advice of a solicitor, she would have just capitulated. Aviva would have had a dialogue with her. She would have had the opportunity. She would have been required to make her arguments. And so, I mean, I just don't buy it.

And I agree with you. You know, a lot of people dismiss the indiscretion that Rachel reads on her CV as, well, all people misrepresent their CVs. I disagree. I would sack someone immediately in my company if I discovered that they misled me on their CV. I think it's a very, very serious issue. I don't believe people habitually lie on their CV. Otherwise, what's the point of a CV? I have never done it. No, you wouldn't do it. And the thing is, is that, remember, these were the people, Ben, who day after day after day called on Boris Johnson to resign

over what they described as lies. Now, in a lot of cases, I don't believe they were lies, but let's just put that to one side. They didn't care how big or small the lie was. They didn't believe he should be prime minister as a result. So they have set this lofty standard for themselves and now they have to live by it. But unfortunately, I guess Starmer views Louise Haig as dispensable. Rachel Reeves, the woman who's just pushing through one of the most popular budgets of all time, much harder to get rid of, right? Yeah, much harder to get rid of. I think Rachel Reeves, you know, what do they call her? Reeves from McCants or something? Rachel from McCants. Rachel from McCants, yeah.

I mean, I think she's, it's wretched that you've got a chance of the exchequer who actually claims she had an economic background and doesn't. You know, I think that is wretched. And it's evidenced in her budget. And by the way, I think the wheels are going to come off the UK economy much faster than we think. Our borrowing requirements are going to be much higher within the next six months than we think. We're heading into a recession. We're going to get stagflation. And you're going to see an economic impact that

people aren't really waking up to yet. I just don't think what she's done to the economy is going to be capable of being sustained by the economy and um so it proves the point if you lie on your cv it has really material adverse implications for those who have bought bought your cv hook line and sinker bin habib look you may be out of reform uk but i very much hope you'll still be a regular here on Outspoken because we absolutely love hearing from you. Thank you for having me on. A real pleasure. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Ben. We will speak soon. And now,

the uncancelled interview. You'll remember the case of Cameron Bell. It shook the world. When Elon Musk, the owner of X, heard about it, he posted that the UK has become a police state. Cameron Bell was a 23-year-old care worker. Good woman, by all accounts, someone who was in a profession helping others.

On the night of August the 4th, 2024, after a shift as a care home worker, she was walking through Tamworth on the night of unrest following the Southport massacre. She live streamed some of the unrest that she saw in the streets. She was not involved in any violence herself. She did not encourage any violence herself. But she was heard on this live TikTok stream, where I believe she was operating as a citizen journalist, she was heard referring to illegal migrants as tramps. Now Karen Bell, this 23-year-old young woman with her whole life ahead of her, was jailed for nine months. She was remanded in custody almost immediately, only released yesterday. And I am delighted to say that she is giving her first interview today to Outspoken alongside Mark Heath, who also faced political persecution as a result of social media posts that he made following the Southport

massacre. However, he pled not guilty and was cleared by a jury of his peers. And it's so great to have both of them with us today. So Cameron, I can only imagine how you're feeling what you've been through these past few months but I guess you must have been heartened when you learned that Elon Musk the richest the most powerful man in the world was bringing the injustice of your case to international attention. Yeah, it was amazing. It was, wow. To be honest, after, obviously, the past four months of being, obviously, inside a prison, and then I found out whilst I was in there

that Elon Musk obviously had noticed it. It's just, I have no words really. It's just crazy. And so Cameron, can you talk me through what happened? So you're working what, at a care home? I was working in the community. So I go to their houses. Got it.

And so you'll finish your shift on the 4th of august yeah and you're on your way home walking is that right yeah uh going through the town center and what do you see um so there was just like there was a load of people around. There was a line of police. So I went live on TikTok, made obviously a comment that got me a nine month sentence. And can I just ask, because i'm obviously a journalist right but if i see something going on my reaction is to want to share it especially if it's something that is newsworthy and that's something that people do now on tiktok or x or youtube it's all part of citizen journalism. So I presume that's why you were filming. You weren't filming saying to people,

oh, come on down, join the violence. Yeah, no, I weren't at all trying to get anyone to come down. I was just there filming because of obviously what was going on. And you were never accused of being involved in any violence yourself or encouraging the violence? No. So how on earth, Cameron, did the police ever come to arrest you? I think it was because obviously I'm a carer i was live um i just finished my shift and people screen recorded my live video and they started slandering me

all over facebook all over tiktok um that that um obviously I was a care worker when I was live. I had awful messages come to me about what people were going to do to me because I had attended this riot. It was just awful. So someone reported you to the police. Is that your understanding? Yeah. And when the police came to arrest you,

I imagine that you could not believe in a million years that you were about to be locked up in jail. Yeah, I had no idea. Obviously, when they come to my address, they originally did come for my partner, who he's still inside at the moment um but what had he done cameron nothing at all nothing he was just walking through the town with me yeah okay and so the police arrest you and are you immediately locked up?

No. So they arrested me at nine o'clock the Friday morning. So Friday the 9th of August, I got arrested at nine o'clock in the morning. So five days after the event. Yeah. I was took to the police station where they held me up for 24 hours. When that 24 hours was over, they brought me to the desk and told me they were extending my stay for an extra 12 hours. And then when those 12 hours were over, they pulled me to the desk and told me that I was being charged and I was attending court on the Monday morning.

But did you know at that point you were not going to receive bail? No. So what happens? Sorry, you go on. I did ask them, obviously, if it was possible I could get bail. They told me no and i was to stay um in the police cell until monday morning court and then you go to court you don't receive bail and you're transported to prison yeah what was it like? It was awful, honestly.

I just felt like my whole world had come crashing down. I'd never in a million years expected to be took to prison. And Mark, obviously we spoke last week, and he suffered what appears to be a targeted attack by a gang of Asian men imprisoned. Were you subjected to any form of violence? Cameron? Oh, sorry. Were you subjected to any form of violence?

Intimidation. A word... Oh. I'm so sorry. They knew presumably that you were inside because of something connected to the South Port so-called riots. Yeah. And Mark...

Yeah, every... Sorry, a lot of people were made aware, yeah, that what I was in there for. And Mark, obviously, in a sane world, neither of you posed any threat to the public so you would usually be expected to have been released on bail right but clearly a political point was being made here 100 yeah um the whole point of the whole the whole thing was just to silence people, stop people having a voice, free speech.

There's things that people have been getting locked up for are ludicrous and it's then life's affected, like Cameron's life will be affected now, she might not get over this for a long period of time, she might not get over it at all. It's certainly affected me, it's affected my health and it's just been done for one reason, one reason only, and that is to quell free speech and to shut everything down. And let's be honest,

and this was because people were saying certain things about certain individuals that we now know to be true. Well, indeed, indeed. And I do want to come to that. But the next big decision for you, Cameron, was to plead guilty, right? Now, I would say, why did you do that? Because I don't think you were guilty for a moment. But I have spoken to others who are in this situation who felt like they were coerced

into doing so is that your experience yeah um so obviously when i got took to the prison i had a meeting with um my solicitor and he basically told me if I didn't go guilty, I'd be on remand up until May next year. Obviously, I've been a healthcare worker for five years. That being thrown at me, I couldn't stay on remand up until May next year. No way. Of course you couldn't. But you did lose your job. I did.

What happened there? So I woke up on the morning after I was live to an email from my work company telling me that I was instantly dismissed. They didn't hear my side of the story. All they had had was the people that were against me. They were phoning up the company I worked for, telling them that I was racist, that I had been involved in the whole riot.

My work company knew I weren't involved because I was working whilst the riot was happening, but they didn't listen to my side of the story. I just had an email to say I was instantly dismissed and that was it. And what sort of people did you care for, Cameron? Elderly, the vulnerable, like, yeah. A job that we really need you doing, right? Yeah.

That's something that I find so astonishing about all of this. Now, can I just ask how you felt about the Southport massacre? Were you angry? Were you disgusted? Were you horrified? Yeah, obviously I was horrified at what had happened. I don't really follow the news, so I didn't know who had done it, how it even happened. I just heard that obviously it was a party that was happening for obviously young people.

And three, unfortunately, three young girls got killed. Was it a party that was happening for obviously young people? And three, unfortunately, three young girls got killed. And then just loads of riots had broken out. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. And I guess the problem is we were lied to, weren't we? Any speculation or any personal opinion about Axel Rudekabana or about the circumstances of the Southport massacre tragedy at all? Nothing at all. Nothing. And what did you see in Tamworth that night? What was actually being streamed on your tiktok um so when i was live streaming on tiktok i was just um at the castle grounds where all it was was the line of the police the riot was over

it was just the police clearing everyone away there was no like violence going on no fires nothing it was just a line of police getting people away from the area and sending everyone home. And Mark, can you understand at all why the authorities decided to make an example of Cameron? Because I just still don't get it. No, I don't understand, to be honest. I mean, I've watched her TikTok video, as many people have,

and I know she said that immigrants are tramps, but it's just an opinion. It's free speech. I said far more worse on the post that I posted on X. I'm very much more opinionated than what Cameron might be. Yes, you were. Oh, yes.

And I still am. But no, I don't understand any of it. I don't understand any of it. What I'm getting from the whole situation is that people are being shut down because there's a whole big scandal that's yet to be revealed. Of course. I mean, look, there has been a cover-up.'s yet to be revealed. Of course.

I mean, look, there has been a cover-up. There has been a massive cover-up. Nigel Farage has said this is one of the biggest cover-ups of our lifetime. But to me, to make an example of both of you, but especially Cameron, 23-year-old, young care worker, just walking through Tamworth with her boyfriend. I think there's a very specific goal behind it, and it's to terrify young people into just not getting involved. Just don't say anything, don't get involved, and then everything will be okay. That's my only understanding of why on earth they would target you in that way.

Can you just explain, Cameron, though, because some people will say, well, why did you describe an illegal migrant as a tramp? What had sparked that description? So the asylum seekers that were housed in our hotel, they're housed right in between a leisure centre where plenty of children go every single day and our town's biggest park. Quite a few of them were known to be standing outside the snow dome whilst the little kids were swimming and they were recording them. They were going to the park whilst recording them as well. They were following young girls around obviously it had

been reported to the police and the police come back to obviously the victims and said there's nothing they can do about it and they don't have the power to seize their phones so everyone had had enough and that they that's they took it into their own hands that's my opinion as to why i called them tramps because you shouldn't be filming any children you shouldn't be following girls you shouldn't be intimidating anybody whether you're an asylum seeker whatever my judge at them calling them a tramp is not because they were asylum seekers it was purely for the fact of what they were doing whilst being housed indeed indeed well look stand by both of you because i want to ask you a little bit more about

elon musk in just one minute so So Cameron Bell, Mark Heath, don't go anywhere. But first, with the holidays creeping up faster than your aunt's fruitcake recipe, I've got something way better to share with you. The discount for Black Friday, by the way, is off the chart. So you are going to want to hear this today. If you want to look sharp for those festive gatherings and maybe finally win the best groomed at the family dinner award, check out the latest from Manscaped, the Chairman Pro electric foil shaver. Trust me, it's like Rudolph for your face, guiding you to a smooth, irritation free shave. So let's dive into the goods. The Chairman Pro is armed with not one, but two interchangeable skin safe blade heads. Think of them as your grooming superheroes.

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worldwide who trust Manscaped by using the code OUTSPOKEN for free shipping. And guess what? To mark Black Friday this week, 25% off. That's www.manscaped.com. Remember to use the coupon code OUTSPOKEN at checkout. But now, back to the show. Cameron Bell, I can only imagine how concerned you are about your future and how this conviction will impact you in saying that let me just tell you there has been huge support when i discussed your case with mark heath i had people reaching out saying we want to help cameron get work we can't believe this has happened to her but talk to me about the fears of your future. Oh, they're all there. Obviously, I've been in the best job I could have ever wished for. My dream was to become a paramedic eventually.

Now I ain't getting that no more, am I? I've got a clinical fiction for life for one one comment and my my career is just gone now so what's your plan no idea obviously as much as i would love to go back into the care industry and become a paramedic. I think I ain't going to get that chance no more. And I'm going to have to look at getting a warehouse job or somewhere that is going to take me on with a criminal conviction. Mike, it's just heartbreaking, isn't it? It is, and these are the repercussions of what's happened to these people.

You know, from a short spell inside prison, Cameron's lost the job that she loves. She's lost, and she has lost, the chance to go into the paramedics because of a criminal conviction. I think it's scandalous, I really do, for doing a live screen and making one comment. I mean, this unfortunately is the country we live in at the moment,

and a young girl like Cameron, who I spoke to yesterday, and Chrissie, who's a guardian or a mum, she calls her mum. You know, the backlash that they've got, and I've seen some screenshots of the abuse that they've got on Facebook and things like this, and this is now their new norm, and it's not fair, and it shouldn't be fair. And so, yeah, I put out a plea there. If anybody knows anything they can do to help Cameron,

then I'm sure she'll be grateful. She doesn't deserve what's happened to her. She shouldn't have been in prison in the first place. And she certainly shouldn't have her criminal conviction for the rest of her life. So I'm passionate about this and I'm passionate about trying to help people inside the families of. Cameron knows this.

So all I can say really is keep your head held high you haven't done anything you know you you shouldn't have been in the position that you were in there are people that are going to help you you know that i've told you that as well um and i know dan's been getting messages as well yeah i have i have people saying we want to help get cameron a job and that sort of thing uh cameron how dark did it get for you in prison i'm not sure if you're aware of the People saying we want to help get Cameron a job and that sort of thing. Cameron, how dark did it get for you in prison? I'm not sure if you're aware of the absolute tragedy of Peter Lynch, who was convicted for over two years and died in prison, said to have taken his own life. obviously my um my experience in prison it's awful i generally hit rock bottom in prison

um i was placed on an act which is um a suicide like review thing so i was placed on one of them for two weeks my mental health was bad I just locked myself away I was constantly crying um for the first three weeks when I actually got arrived at the prison I had no contact with my family they wouldn't help me get any numbers obviously my phone was seized um they at the police station when i got really obviously released yesterday i found out that my nan had contacted the custody that i was staying in over the weekend and left her number for me i didn't get given it so for three weeks i went without speaking to any of my family my friends I was literally on my own and the environment of a prison is just awful awful and I would never ever wish it upon anyone

I spoke to Ray Connolly who is the conservative councillor who's married to Lucy Connolly, who is in prison for over two years, two years and seven months, I think, for a post on X. Now, he said that she is sharing prison space with women who are in there for murder, who are in there for life. What was your experience with the fellow prisoners? prison space with people with women who are in there for murder who are in there for life what what was your experience with the fellow prisoners yeah um where i was there was a lot of women serving life imprisonment um i was i was also um marked as a high risk uh which obviously everyone was made aware about um so every day i was getting looks uh people were spreading hate about me around obviously the wings people were trying

to get information like different prisoners were trying to get information sent in about me um i really felt vulnerable in the prison. There is a lot of life is in there. A lot of people that you expect, like when I look at my situation to theirs, what they do in prison as well, it's just not a nice environment at all. And I'd never want to be back in there

and you say you were intimidated but not physically hurt yeah so um I wasn't physically hurt but I had to stand in front of about three four people um that were obviously a different race because they had heard of my crime and there was targeting me um so i had to stand in front of them and explain my situation that um i wasn't a racist i didn't make any racist like comments um i felt very vulnerable in that situation because i was there alone it was just me surrounded by them people but even after that i was i was walking past people and they'd give me dirty looks um i did um there was one girl obviously she tried to get her partner on the out to send in documents of my case um so she could get more people to intimidate me in the prison

um but luckily well it's not luckily but she didn't get the documents the prison wouldn't allow her to have the documents so i went to the people and i explained why i was in there um just so i didn't want to look as if i was a bad person whilst I was in there because I'm not a bad person. Given what happened to Peter Lynch and the fact that you were on suicide watch, did you ever have thoughts of harming yourself? So whilst I was in there, I did harm myself. And that's when I got placed on the act. so I had a woman come in from the out um I'm not sure what team she was from but it was to see if we needed support um on how to not be racist and I just I just broke down um she's seeing the cuts over my arm she reported it to

one of the officers um and it was that day when i got pulled in and i was placed on the act because at that point i presume you just thought this is such hell yeah it's just easier to to end it all yeah i sat there every night just thinking of a way to end my life. For a stream, for a stream on TikTok, which if I had been there as a journalist in that situation, I would have made two. Look, I just want to show you the tweet though from Elon because surely this gives you a bit of hope,

a bit of positivity look it's been viewed 53 million times he was aware of your story Cameron and the fact that you were jailed for nine months for streaming on TikTok this riot and he replied the UK has become a police state. So this is an opportunity, Cameron, for you to talk to the world. After what happened to you, what would be your message to Elon Musk? Thank you. All I can say is thank you. Thank you to every single person that is supporting me and not against me for a tiktok live video and what about kia starmer well i have no words for him at all no words do you feel like you were a political prisoner?

Yeah. A million percent. I think you were too. Now, Mark, you're obviously doing great work to help the political prisoners. You have a Just Giving running at the moment, which is raising money for the political prisoners and also their families who were coerced to plead guilty unnecessarily. I guess the point is we've got to help these people.

Yeah, 100%. That's the main point of it. Cameron is going to need help. She is going to need help to get her life back together, to get herself back on her feet. Some of the funds from that will be going directly to Cameron. I'll speak to her afterwards and just let her know how we're going to do that. So it is still live and it's been live for a while and I'm only going to keep it open until Sunday

because we actually hit target a few days ago. So I've increased the target i just want to see how far we can get it to go and then once it's closed on sunday i started distributing rather those funds out to to people that i'm in contact with cameron will be one of those people so if you want to help please go to my page at marquee 45 i'll put the link up there please go on and just give what you can it's payday for a coffee just just help out as best as you can it's going to benefit Cameron it's going to benefit other people that I'm in contact with so um I directly really to anybody that feels disgusted as I do and a lot

of people do please give what you can and I will do the rest I will make sure it goes to people that that need it and Cameron I've got back. We're going to look after you. And there's so much support. There's so much support already coming through, Cameron, on our live chat. And by the way, it is worth clarifying for people who are asking, how on earth can you be out so soon? It's because you are obviously remanded in custody. So that portion of the sentence does count, doesn't it? And also, presumably, because the jails are full, you were released after having served 40% of your sentence, I believe? I'm not.

So I was told I don't qualify for the 40%. Okay. Of course you don't. Yeah. I was told because of the 40%. Okay. Of course you don't. Yeah. I was told because of the crime I committed, I wouldn't qualify for the 40%. Ludicrous, by the way, because the only people who I'm not meant to qualify

are terrorists and sexual criminals. But I guess if you're a 23-year-old white working class girl walking home at night, you're a major threat to society. But look, Cameron Bell, I'm so glad you're out. I'm so glad you got through it. Thank God. And life will get better now because people know that this was a was a sham.

Even Elon Musk knows. And we'll stay in touch with you. And Mark Heath, thank you for all you're doing for the political prisoners. It's been such a pleasure to have you both today on outspoken thanks a lot dan thank you thank you so much wow crazy times in the united kingdom coming up in today's uncancelled after show angela levin with bombshell new royal revelations as the daily mail claims king charles is open to welcoming Prince Harry and Meghan Markle back into the royal fold. You know it's very important to me that we have a safe space not patrolled by big tech where censorship and control runs deep so

that's why we have www.outspoken.live it's our membership section where you get half an hour of extra content every day. So at this stage we we come off YouTube and rumble. We move to our own platform to continue our conversation in the uncancelled after show. All you have to do is sign up at www.outspoken.live. We're back Monday at 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. A little reminder, by the way, that it is Black Friday. So we have a 30% off sale if you are able to support Outspoken. It's the cheapest it's ever been, £3.50 plus VAT a month if you're in the UK. www.outspoken.live is that website address. But seriously, just subscribe. It's totally free if you want it to be and i'm so grateful because we are building

this outspoken community also free to subscribe of course on youtube and rumble just hit that button most importantly i promise to keep fighting for you but i'll see you on the after show with angela levin in just one moment. you