Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE LAUNCHES SHOCK NEW ATTACK ON RUPERT LOWE AS REFORM UK'S CIVIL WAR TURNS DIRTY

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Go to https://ground.news/outspoken to see through media bias and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month. The Reform UK civil war gets dirtier by the day, with claims from Team Farage that axed Great Yarmouth MP Rupert Lowe is being backed by bad actors online, yet the US Vice President JD Vance appears to be backing his mass deportation call. Meanwhile, with more shocking Reform exits and bombshell claims from senior figures, UKIP sees an opportunity. In his Digest, Dan asks: Is this Reform UK turmoil serving a purpose for Farage’s party which wants to tack to the centre ahead of elections in May? Then analysis from Father Calvin Robinson. PLUS: The great Prince Harry cover up as the drug taking Duke is protected with severe redactions in his immigration documents. Will we ever learn the truth? AND: Michael Jackson’s former bodyguard speaks out exclusively after last night’s broadcast of the new Channel 4 documentary Surviving Neverland. Matt Fiddes reveals why he is standing by the King of Pop. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: The Sidley Twins of Twin Talk join me Stateside to reveal why Gwyneth Paltrow has spoken out on Meghan Markle. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wharton. This is Outspoken Live episode number 186. And the Reform UK civil war gets dirtier by the hour with claims from Team Farage that the axed great Yarmouth MP Rupert Lowe is being backed by bad actors online. Yet the US Vice President Jadie Vance appears to be backing Rupert Lowe's mass deportation call. If you look in nearly every country from Canada to the UK that imported large amounts of cheap labour, you've seen productivity stagnate. Meanwhile, with more shocking reform exits and bombshell claims from senior figures, UKIP sees an opportunity. I have some very sad news for you all. You have been let down by the Reform Party.

I gave them 18 months to show their true colours. When I say their true colours, I mean Nigel Farage and Zia Youssef. So in my digest next, is this Reform UK turmoil serving a purpose for Farage's party, which wants to tack to the centre ahead of the elections in May? Then, analysis from Father Calvin Robinson. Also coming up on the show today, the great Prince Harry cover-up as the drug-taking duke is protected with insane redactions in the release of his immigration documents. Maybe we should say non-release of his immigration documents. Will we ever learn the truth? And Michael Jackson's former bodyguard speaks out exclusively after last night's broadcast of the new Channel 4 documentary Leaving Neverland, Surviving Michael Jackson. Matt Fadas is standing by the King of Pop. We'll hear

from him. Then in the uncancelled after show on substack the swidley the sidley twins of twin talk join me stateside to reveal why gwyneth paltrow has spoken out on megan markle i love those two you can sign up to watch www.outspoken.live of course as ever want to hear from you throughout the show give me your comments in the live chat and I'll read some of them out at the conclusion. Plus, get voting for today's Union jackass. The nominees as chosen by you. Matthew Stadlin, nominated by AtGreekGareth for suggesting Rupert Lowe's likes on ex-abot accounts. Scheming Sturgeon, nominated by AtIt'sABitMuch. And that's because she's promoting her memoir called

Frankly, Need I Say More? and nominated by Mouseville Toys, Prince Harry of Sussex for his continued hiding and deception over his US visa. I'll announce the winner, your winner, and today's greatest Britain at the end of the show. So please do stick with us throughout. But now, let's go. Reform UK and Team Nigel Farage now so rattled about the uprising within their movement over reporting Rupert Lowe, Britain's greatest champion of mass deportations and free speech, remember remember reporting him to the police that the civil war on the right well it's just got dirtier one of Farage's closest allies Lois Perry of the Homeland Institute has claimed Rupert Lowe is now being boosted by foreign

interference online she posts on x alongside this picture of her with Nigel, huge cyber attack on Nigel Farage and Reform UK right now from Indian cyberbots. Even Matthew Stadlin has pointed out that many of, and she's put in inverted commas, the likes on Rupert Lowe's tweets are from foreign, recently made accounts. Don't let who is paying for this divide us. Reform without Farage is

deformed. Now, look, I've got a lot of respect for Lois, and she's a close ally of Nigel Farage. But I do think that relying on the Russian hopes narrative that failed to bring down Donald Trump is not going to work here. And I implore reform to stop using the woke cancellation tactics of the left to your own side. Enough now. Seriously. There is one reason why Rupert Lowe is flying online,

and it's because he's connecting with those of us horrified by the damage that has been done to our country by our leaders in the uni party. A message, by the way, being pushed again, you can see it here, by the heroic US Vice President, Jadie Vance. You look in nearly every country from Canada to the UK that imported large amounts of cheap labour,

you've seen productivity stagnate. So yet again, after claims from Nadine Dorries that he is the UK's most far-right MP, Rupert Lowe has stood up for his position. He's not backing down. Posting on X, I take great issue with this criticism being leveled at me that deporting illegal migrants is in some way cruel or unkind. Why? I read how I'm such a monster for wanting to remove people with no right to be here. Again, why? Because I state it might be 1 million plus people? That's just a fact, however uncomfortable. The number is utterly irrelevant. The principle is what matters. Otherwise what? Just because the task is too enormous we don't even try? These people are

just allowed to stay hanging around it's pure defeatism. I believe that every single illegal migrant should be deported along with any legal migrant who commit crime. If a legal migrant comes and breaks their visa conditions then yes they have to leave too. Our hospitality and our generosity has been abused for too long. This is our country, this is our home. Visitors, legal or illegal, must play by our rules or they should be forced to leave. Simple. Meanwhile, Reform is failing to shake off this row, no matter how hard they insist that no one actually cares. Reform's Great Yarmouth branch has stood in solidarity not with Faraj and Zia Yousaf, but Rupert Lowe. Writing today, Rupert is a good man and the best, most proactive MP our town has

ever seen. All of the local branch officers can no longer support Reform UK following the leadership's disgraceful treatment of our MP. Rupert has supported our community, our community now supports him. Barry Graveell added, As the now ex-treasurer of the Great Yarmouth branch, I am disgusted with the treatment Rupert received at the hands of the party. Rupert has been a breath of fresh air in the political landscape and has my full support and backing. And Slippery Starmer continued the ritual humiliation of reform in PMQs over a situation that was entirely of the party's own making. I come to this chamber, Mr Speaker, every week to ask sensible questions. And I expect sensible answers.

But all I get is glazed expressions and waffle from the opposite bench here. ond yr hyn rwy'n ei gael yw ysgrifennu y cyfeiriadau a'r waffel o'r ben gywir. Rwyf am ofyn i'r Prif Weinidog gwestiwn syml ar gyfer y sgwptigion net zero. Os byddwn ni'n dod i net zero y bore ddiwethaf, beth fyddai'r cyfnod o hyd i sut i leihau'r cyfnod o hyd i'r temperatwriaeth? Rwyf am ofyn i'r Prif Weinidog gwestiwn syml. question. Mr Speaker, net zero is of course not easy, but it's a huge opportunity to boost our growth, our jobs and our economy. And so he knows my views on that. But, you know, he complains that better ideas if they stop falling over Putin. And I understand the members of the Clacton-Walsby Prime Minister can't even lead a party that's fixing the back of a taxi.

Meanwhile, Reform's former London mayoral candidate, Howard Cox, has shared with me an extraordinary response he has made to the British Bashing Corporation, which is investigating the party. I want to read some of it to you. This is from Howard Cox. New Chairman Zia Youssef emerged from nowhere in July last year following the general election and appears to have bought into his position and Nigel's ear. What we are now witnessing is another dictatorship and a messianic lead cult

modelled around one jealousy-driven individual, the same ego-driven political model we saw in UKIP and the Brexit party. The much-trumpeted party's alleged move to being democratic and professional is a complete sham. Reform needs to put the leadership positions to a vote. Loyal supporters need honest answers as to what is going on. the truth must be revealed now. But instead of that happening, Reform's candidates for the upcoming election are, according to formatory MP Michael Fabricant, being required to sign a non-disclosure agreement before being approved to stand. And it's by being weak that I believe reform is actually playing into the hands of the

Craven MSM who want to bring reform down. Take this attack from the left-wing Daily Mirror on Stuart Davies. He is one of reform's new recruits announced in a press conference earlier this week. And what is his crime? Well, it was responding to a post by our very own Father Calvin Robinson saying women should not join the police. He wrote, I agree to some extent, but women are capable. These women are not. The recruitment system of policing is the issue in the UK, DEI above safety. Now, I thought that's a fair enough response, right? Really nothing to go crazy about. But the Labour MP, War, embarrassed himself by responding,

if these are the candidates for Rogers, happy to put in the media spotlight, just imagine what those he isn't might have said or done. Reform need to get their house in order. Oh, do piss off. And here's the thing. The problem is, reform's troubles are actually allowing the right to splinter. Tory leader Kemi Badenoch, hardly a shining star herself, but she's now attempting to dismiss Farage as some sort of entertainer, a guy just made for reality television in an interview in the Daily Telegraph today. And the new UKIP leader, Nick Tenkony, is urging those who want to begin mass deportations to come home to UKIP,

Nigel's former party. Watch his powerful pitch. I have some very sad news for you all. You have been let down by the Reform Party. I gave them 18 months to show their true colours. When I say their true colors i mean nigel farage and zia yusef what did everyone expect if it walks like a duck acts like a duck and goes quack it's a trojan horse for Islam. And to respond now, the aforementioned Father Calvin Robinson is today's outsider. Father Calvin, I'm very jealous, by the way, because you're in Florida, because you're going to be at Mar-a-lago right for a big christian event so i'm hugely jealous and i'm sorry to pull you in from the sun but how hilarious calvin that now

even replying to one of your posts on x having a debate about dei because reform has i think allowed themselves to be so captured by what the mainstream media think. The Daily Mirror thinks that's some type of scandal and that this guy shouldn't be a reform MP. Yeah, you're right. I am in West Palm Beach right now. It's sunny, it's glorious.

I'm loving it. I wish you were out here. And yes, I'm going to Mar-a-Lago tomorrow and I'll report back next week on how that goes. But you're right. I mean, my tweet was simple. Women should not be policemen. We used to call them policemen before DEI and then became, what, policemen and policewomen and then it's just police officer. It's just not a suitable role for a woman because men and women are different.

We have different ways to contribute to society. And actually, women have the most important vocation of rearing children, which is something that men cannot do, despite what modernity will tell you. And so our job is to protect women who are the fairer sex. This was all known until five minutes ago, and suddenly we got to pretend that women and men are interchangeable. And now we've got women policemen being beaten up and abused and harassed and intimidated when they shouldn't be there in the first place but this chap wasn't even agreeing with me he was saying no actually most women can become police policemen but these particular women were no good at it and like that's quite a moderate nuanced take but no not enough for the legacy media not enough for the

far left it's and reform has played into their hands, though, haven't they? They have empowered this type of coverage because they're reporting Rupert Lowe to the police, because they are using the tactics of the left. And now, Father Calvin, we see them try to claim, and this is such dodgy territory, given the war against Trump, the war against Farage. But they're now trying to claim that it's foreign interference rupert has been boosted by indian bots and no doubt they're soon gonna say russian bots galvin i've seen yeah i've seen two takes this past week or so one that it's online trolls and they're all racists and the other that it's it's foreign interference now if i told you those quotes a month or two ago you'd say they're probably quotes from sakir starmer like at the racists, and the other that it's foreign interference. Now, if I told you those quotes a month or two ago, you'd say they're probably quotes from Sakir Starmer, like at the pedestal

saying, it's all the far right, it's all the racists. No, that was Nigel Farage this past week and his good friend Lois. Again, love Lois, she's great, but she's wrong on this. To blame it on foreign interference and just online trolling is wrong. And for Nigel to get up and say any criticism of Mohammed Zia and Yusuf is racist is wrong. They are falling into the playbook of the woke left progressive liberals, as they call themselves. It's a great shame to see what's supposed to be the right of British politics quickly, rapidly de-escalating into the left of British politics. Yeah, that's what I worry about. That's what I really worry about here. It's like, come on, let's have a debate, right, without using their tactics. So let's have a proper debate about mass deportations, about whether it's possible. And every day what Rupert Lowe is saying is, I'm prepared to have that debate. Here are the facts. Let's have this argument. And what, unfortunately, reform and the new reform leadership have done is said, well, no, we don't want to actually have that argument.

We just want to divert or destroy. And that's not cool. That isn't cool. And it's interesting, Father Calvin, because Nigel can say all he wants, that this is a sort of inside baseball and inside the beltway, to use a Washington, D.C. term story. But the point is, it's not to his base. 99% of Reform UK supporters, and remember, a heck of a lot of them are going to absolutely love Nigel Farage. But 99% of them, when it comes to the policy, agree with Rupert Lowe. Absolutely. And so the question arises, why is this happening? You said a moment ago that

reforms troubles are allowing the right to splinter. I'm speculating at the moment that this isn't allowing the right to splinter. This was set up for the right to splinter. We don't know where Muhammad Yusuf came from. We don't know why he suddenly invested money in reform and became one of only two directors, himself and Nigel Al-Faraj. We don't know what his motivations are. We don't know why he gets the final say. When anyone criticizes him or disrupts his work pattern, they get booted out of the party. All we do know is that that happens. So Rupert Lowe is one amongst a string of many who've been kicked out of reform so far because Muhammad Yusuf doesn't like them. So the question arises, is Muhammad Yusuf in the Reform Party in order to provide controlled opposition?

Has Nigel Al-Faraj sold his soul to Muhammad Yusuf for a few bucks and in return Muhammad gets to control what would be the opposition in the United Kingdom. If so it's a great shame because this was the only opportunity we had in a long time to break the uniparty system and that no longer is the case because you're quite right that Nigel Al-Faraj has turned off his base and continues to do so. He's going further and further left appeasing the woke mob, blaming people for being racist, blaming people for being online trolls, and now foreign interference, at the same time as trying to appease the legacy media, the mainstream media, trying to make friends with the middle ground.

The middle ground are not going to like him, and all he's doing is turning off his base. It's a great, great shame. But I am genuinely pleased to see that video you showed of Nick Tencone, who's standing up and saying, look, we're conservative, we're Christian, we're pro-Britain, and actually we're for mass deportation. The same as Rupert Lowe. I wish that Rupert would consider joining UKIP and perhaps Ben Habib as well. Can you imagine the force, the reckoning force that UKIP would become then? And that's what's going to be

so interesting. If Rupert Lowe is actually expelled from the party permanently, he's not going to go quietly, and I don't think he should. And so, yes, that does risk splintering the right, but it also risks creating a new movement, which is maybe a good thing. I just want to show you, by the way, this exchange on X between Matthew Stadlin. And I will just say very quickly, no one should take a word Matthew Stadlin says seriously. So the fact that his words are now being picked up by Team Farage, that's a huge concern to me, Father Coven, because when you actually look at this thread, there's no evidence.

It's just a thought. The guy's a lefty troll. Like he says, is there any data on how many of Rupert Lowe's likes on X are by people living outside the UK? Rupert Lowe responds, how much of your day do you spend thinking about me, Matthew? I suspect the answer is too much. And Matthew replies saying, only as much as your repetitive divisive posts pop up on my feed, Rupert, I've been on tour with Prue Leith having a fabulous time around this beautiful country of ours meeting wonderful people. Oh, do shut up. I mean, he's such a nasty piece of work, Matthew Stadlin. But the point is, what on earth is Lois Perry doing? He's just asked

a question, Matthew Stadlin. He's not presenting any evidence whatsoever. Matthew Stadlin is a bad faith actor. I had him on my show a few times at GB News. After he'd spent months and months disparaging GB News, saying how much he hates it, it shouldn't exist. He was willing to come on and accept the money, wasn't he? And I called him out for that live on air. So he is not someone to be trusted. But what's problematic about this is that people are looking to him. People are looking to the establishment for quotes to support Nigel Farahaj. So why is he getting the support of the establishment, of the mainstream and the lefty media? That should be troubling to anyone who's been a

supporter of Nigel and or reform up until now. But the problem is, you said earlier on, look, I think you quoted Howard Cox, that he said, this needs to be put to a vote, the leadership of reform needs to be put to a vote. But leadership of reform needs to be put to a vote. But it can't be put to a vote for several reasons. One is there are no members to vote. There are still no members of reform. Reform is not a proper political party. It's still a limited company under UK law with two directors,

Mohamed Zadin Youssef and Nigel Alfa Hodge. And they are the only ones that get a say. And so one part of that problem is there's no members to vote. But the second part of the problem is it will always be the Farage show until Farage is done with it. He will never, ever allow the opportunity for a leadership contest. We've seen the results of this in the Brexit party. We've seen the results of this in UKIP in previous years as well. He cannot be contested, cannot be criticised, cannot even accept positive feedback. And so he will do anything he can to avoid that.

Yeah, and it's very good that you point out Matthew Stadlin, the truth about Matthew Stadlin, by the way, because Matthew Stadlin is one of those sad sacks who was turned down, rejected by all of the left-wing media, LBC, the British Bashing Corporation, all of them. None of them wanted him. So he's ended up finding a home at GB News because GB News has to have someone like him on all the time to appease their real bosses, the off communists. And it is sad. It's sad for all concerned. on all the time to appease their real bosses, the off communists. And it is sad.

It's sad for all concerned. And it's particularly sad for him because he is just a bad faith actor, as you say. Stand by, though, Father Calvin. Much more from you coming up. Breaking right now, the cover up over Prince Harry's drug use is in full force. The US administration, even under Donald Trump, doesn't want to cause any issues for King Charles and Prince William. But what it means is that Harry's drug use is again hidden from public loot. I mean, let me show you, because quite literally hidden, the immigration documents which were released to great fanfare yesterday are simply full of

redaction after redaction, meaning we have no idea whether Prince Harry lied on these documents. But as I have said all along, I believe he did. I believe the man was stupid enough to think he would have full protection from the Biden administration, which is why he could go on his autobiography spare and boast about taking illegal drug after illegal drug after illegal drug, including in Courtney Cox's American home, and not receive any consequences. By the way, this is special treatment for Prince Harry, who, by the way, just coincidentally happened to be paparazzi'd today on his day of triumph, or at least how he's trying to present it. And this is total special treatment, which most celebrities don't get. After Nigella Lawson was pictured apparently taking drugs, she was banned from the United States, who has been leading the charge on this, posted on X,

There is zero accountability and transparency in the heavily redacted documents released today. The American people have a right to know whether Prince Harry lied regarding his extensive illegal drug use on his U.S. immigration application. Father Calvin Robinson, as a man who has quite recently had to deal with US immigration, which quite rightly, by the way, is really tough and doesn't just let any old person in, the total opposite to our approach here in the UK, how has Harry got away with this? Why is he being protected yet again? Because of his status, quite simply. And I think you pointed out that the President,

Donald Trump, does not want to upset the King, Charles III. And I think that's quite a good position for him to be in. We still do have good relations between the US and the UK. For now, at least, Sakhir Starmer hasn't managed to thwart that even though most of his front bench have said very disparaging remarks against the President in the past. They're willing to kiss his shoes now that he's in office and that they are somehow in office. I don't think the President wants to rock

the boat on that situation. I don't think we'll find out whether Prince Harry lied or didn't lie, but we will constantly be speculating about this. If he did lie, even then, I don't know if he'd be deported. It would be such bad international relations to deport a prince

back to England. Although we don't want him back in the UK anyway. So I don't know why we're pushing for this. But I suppose it's just a hypocrisy of all, isn't it? If you're a liberal, progressive Wokey, you're fine to do whatever you want. You know, I almost got, well, I did, I got my visa revoked just to say my heart goes out to you.

And some bad faith factors reported me to the US government in London, the US embassy in London, and I got my visa revoked. So if you're on the right of politics, you're treated one way. But if you're on the left of politics, you're often treated another way. And it's this two-tiered hypocrisy that I think annoys most people. Well, indeed, because this is the point that Niall Gardner is making, that Trump has put at the heart of his administration the need for the borders to be completely protected. Mass deportations are a happening thing in the US. And J.D. Vance is such a big proponent of this as well. And so all Niall Gardner is saying is, okay, the rules have to apply to everyone, including Prince Harry. Now he actually appeared, this is Niall Gardner of the

Heritage Foundation, which is leading the charge on this. He appeared on Kevin O'Sullivan's talk show just after the redacted files were released. Watch. Biden saying, oh, we don't want to let you see this form. But now we've got a different president who doesn't really care, to be honest with you. I think he's like the rest of us. He's quite intrigued himself. Why, then, is the Department of Homeland Security still apparently going to the ends of the earth to spare Prince Harry's blushes?

It's a very good question, and I strongly urge the new leadership of the Department of Homeland Security to release Prince Harry's immigration records in full to the American people in unredacted form. And I think there's a clear public interest actually in the enforcement of American immigration law. And if Harry lied on his application, he should be fully held to account. I do think that we need to see the new US administration really fundamentally reject the approach

taken by the Biden administration. The Biden administration went to incredible lengths to prevent the release of these records. The Biden administration is now gone. And I believe that the new US administration should release Harry's immigration application as soon as possible. I do think ultimately we will see the release of the records.

It's just a matter of time. And these latest documents were only released, of course, by the Department of State. Interesting that Niall Gunner, he's a really good man, by the way. He's doing great work here. Huge respect for him. Interesting, he still holds hope.

And what's clear is that the Heritage Foundation aren't just prepared to back away and say this is a victory to Prince Harry. They're going to keep going with this. Yeah, I have a lot of time and respect for Niall Gardner. I've worked with him on Heritage on a few things in the past. Very good man. Obviously, he worked for the late, great Margaret Thatcher as well. But I disagree with him on this. I'm not sure that releasing someone's private application details

to the public is the best thing to do. I think the US needs to look into this. The US authorities need to look into this. And if Prince Harry is found guilty, then yeah, absolutely, he should be treated the same way as everyone else. But I'm not entirely convinced it's a public matter for his, at least in terms of his documents being released.

I get that it's a public matter in terms of the conversation because he wrote about it in his book that he'd done illegal activities and come to America. So there's a fine line there. I really don't like the idea of taking private information and private documents and releasing them

unless there's a real national interest. I guess the argument here though, Father Calvin, is that Harry was the one who made all of this so public. And I think we do just have to remember for a moment quite how stupid this guy was and how arrogant he was. And a lot of it was because under the Biden administration,. Why? What on earth were they doing? Trying to buy influence, I would argue. She, Ashley Biden, has now been referred to the IRS over that donation. And Harry, in so many ways, is the architect of all of his own issues. So, for example, in Spare, this vile autobiography where he completely destroyed his relationship with the royal family forever, by the way.

But in Spare, he also decided to reveal his kill count in Afghanistan to the world at the same time that he was decrying the fact he had lost his security. Well, immediately, releasing his kill count and spare made him a massive Taliban and ISIS target, al-Qaeda target. Then, just on a personal level, the fact that he exposed Courtney Cox, the Friends actress, for handing drugs out at her home is not a wise thing to do, is it, if you want to be trusted? his claims to Variety saying, I'm not saying there were mushrooms, I definitely wasn't passing them out, because he's actually put his so-called friends at risk as well. I see what he did there, put his friends at risk. No, I mean, the whole thing is imprudent, isn't it? He's clearly shown himself not just to be untrustworthy, but to be very unwise. The whole book was a mistake. We all saw that from the beginning. I remember when we had to read through that. Oh my goodness. Back when Dan Whitton was on another platform. But it's done. It's out there in the open. And so I'd like for him to move on and apologize and say,

I will no longer leak any personal or private information about my family. I'll no longer disparage the royal family, the firm, as he calls it. I'll no longer badmouth my friends or talk ill of them. I'd like him to move past it. Because otherwise, this is going to drag on and drag on. And people are going to want more and more information. And people do want to know the truth. And if you say, look, I did illegal activities and I still got into the US, they're going to want to know, well, why and how is that allowed for you but not for me but father calvin what is the path

for prince harry now i mean i know obviously you're a religious man you're a man who believes in redemption but this is a guy who destroyed the final months and years on earth of the late Queens of the Second and Prince Philip. That is something that on a personal level, I find unforgivable. And I believe most British people now find that unforgivable too. But in America, even the left wing have woken up to the insanity, the ridiculousness, the gaslighting of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. I mean, if you look at her most recent Netflix series, With Love, Meghan, the reviews were bad from everyone. And by the way, not just bad, not just saying that this was a bad TV show, Calvin, saying that this woman is completely delusional, completely out of touch

with reality. This was coming from publications like The Guardian, from publications like the San Francisco Chronicle, her team, her people. So what is the future path now for Prince Harry and Meghan Markle? Can he receive redemption? He can, absolutely. I think the problem is that he met a woman with a Jezebel spirit who has been toxic since day one, broken down his relationships with everyone that he loved and everyone that was important in his life, broken down his relationship with his country for her own ambitions. And it's a great shame to see that happen. I don't know if their paths will continue together, but even if they separate or divorce eventually,

I think he needs to repent publicly for what he's done while he's been with her. And we, the British people are very forgiving. I do think we will forgive him once he shows contrition. And then he needs to, you know, just be a good father and stay out of the public eye, look after his kids, raise them as best as he can, because he knows he had a troubling childhood

and he should be focusing on giving his kids the best possible childhood that he can and that should be his priority not the latest front cover of another american magazine not going on another tour with megan markle not doing more podcasts and media stuff he should just be good father to his family he should apologize to his nation and make amends and move on and just live a quiet, chaste life. I know. I think that is good advice. I think the problem is, Father Calvin, let's just be completely brutal about it. These two are pulling in completely different directions. So Harry, he does genuinely believe he wants to do good.

Now, I would argue he's not really prepared to put the work in and he isn't really. He's a royal, so he didn't really know the work that was required, put it that way. However, he was sold a bit of a lie by megan markle who told him that he was going to be able to keep doing that they were going to make lots of money and they weren't going to have to sell their soul and unfortunately that's not how it works in hollywood if you want to be paid literally tens of millions of dollars then you do have to sell your life you do have to sell your life. You do have to become like the Kardashians. What they want. Do they want to be celebrities?

Do they want to be famous and rich? Or do they want to be happy and content? And there is a difference. And I think all along they've been telling us they want to be content, they want a good family life. But at the same time, they've been acting in the exact opposite, looking for more fame, looking for more fortune. They can't have it it both ways and i think they're going to find this out sooner or later i'm hoping for harry's sake that he finds it out sooner like say i can't

see their paths um sticking together forever unfortunately i think the jezebel that he's married wants something entirely different from what he wants even though he seems to think they want the same thing it's not true and father calvin do you think it's going to be difficult for prince harry to survive this term of donald trump and jd varms because you know they're unpredictable is what i'm saying they unpredictable. And it's all well and good that Trump is saying right now, okay, I'm not actually going to deport that guy. But all it takes is a few more attacks from Harry and Meghan on things like the First Amendment for him to change his mind. That's a good point. So I've been thinking diplomatically, Trump doesn't want to do or say anything to upset his relations with the United Kingdom. So he's been looking to be careful with King Charles' son. However, you make a good point that Harry and Meghan continue to badmouth and he has this over them, perhaps he will say at some point enough is enough and go through with some kind of deportation or revocation of their visa.

He could leave them in a very sticky situation. So I suppose if they want to remain in the States, it would be in everyone's best interest for them to go quiet. Father Calvin Robinson, get back to your sunbed. Enjoy Mar-a-Lago. And goodness me, I'm jealous. I want to hear all about it. I want to hear all of the gossip. Thank you so much.

Breaking right now, Michael Jackson's bodyguard, Matt Fadas, is hitting back at Channel 4's latest expose, many would say a dodgy expose, on the king of pop, Michael Jackson. Now, my personal story with this is quite an interesting one. I've gone on what The Woke might call a bit of a journey when it comes to the allegations against Michael Jackson. I'm honest when I've changed my mind. I'm also honest when I've made mistakes because as I've grown up in this business and I've seen the lengths that some go to to destroy high profile people, it has made me change my mind and just be much more wise when it comes to media witch hunts. However, Channel 4 has stood by Leaving

Neverland, broadcasting part two in the UK last night, which is described as surviving Michael Jackson. Watch. that's not negligent a california jury in a box that's their fear judgment is entered for the defendants they're sending a message to all the other people they know are out there they need to do this to to shut the up now as you can imagine there has been a huge pushback from from the Jackson estate, which is continuing to build a lot of business on the legacy of Michael Jackson. However, this trial is still due to go to court in California next year. Michael Jackson's bodyguards came under attack in this documentary. One of them, Matt Fadas, is here to speak out exclusively in today's Uncancelled interview. Matt, so brilliant to have you.

And we are going to talk a lot about your time with Michael Jackson, about the truth of Michael Jackson's existence, and even my journey on this in just a moment. But first, we have to start with the breaking news, Matt, because there were a lot of claims and counterclaims, which once again, last night, put Michael Jackson's bodyguards in the crosshairs of this. And I know you are very angry about these allegations, which are really now suggesting that people like you who worked as bodyguards for Michael Jackson were effectively covering up criminal behavior and pedophilia. How do you want to respond?

Dan, it's shocking. It's shocking. It's trial by media. But before we start, one thing me and you never get right is you can never pronounce my surname right. So it's Pides. But we always have this joke I call Dan Wharton sometimes. I'm so sorry, Matt.

What a terrible start. So it's a fantastic stars on such a negative subject but let's get get to the point with this this is trial by media there's no facts here whatsoever we've seen a number of these programs come out now where it's there's no evidence people using fake people fake actors and so on now i knew this man for over 10 years. I spent thousands of hours with this man. There is no way on this earth that any bodyguard is enabling him to molest children. Michael Jackson was not into children.

I know he wanted the world to make him appear weird and strange and so forth, but everyone's fallen into his trap back then. Unfortunately, when he died, it backfired. And I know you've respectfully come to one of my events and you said yourself, for what you've experienced by mainstream media, you know, this might get me counseled, but I don't care less because I love this man.

He was a great friend of mine. And you got it wrong because the narrative is always thrown down your face and there's no facts on it. Michael's not here to defend himself. And when you go back right to the very beginning when people always say Michael Jackson paid Geordie Chandler off in 1993. No, Michael wanted to fight this case.

He was in the middle of a tour called Dangerous that was bringing in billions and billions. It was out of his hands. He had an insurance company who said, no, Mr. Jackson, we're going to pay this out for you you're going back on the road and you can fight the criminal trial and since that's happened by the way there was no criminal trial ever brought against michael jackson 1993 since that's happened and the boy would not testify against michael criminal trial the laws change now no longer can you have a civil case first

than a criminal case in America. You have to have the criminal case first, then go after the money. Now, what you've got here is Wade. I knew Wade. Wade's the same age as me, pretty much. I've met him numerous times. And I'll tell you some stuff.

Around 2006, just after the trial was over, we were in a car with Michael. Wade called because he wanted to use Neverland to get married. Now, not being funny, Dan, if you've been molested as a child, you've got all this trauma attached to Neverland, why the hell would you want to spend one of the happiest days of your life getting married at Neverland? Now, he couldn't get married there because Michael said

that Neverland was out of order. He shut the place down. He had financial troubles and so forth. But there's no facts to back any of this up. They seem to be, I understand that Michael was the first Me Too victim. They go hard after people. We've seen it with Kevin Spacey. We've seen it with Russell Brand.

I can go on and on. Dan, we've seen it with you. We've seen what's gone on there with you. People are begging begging trying to get eyeballs on mainstream media now and it's dying and you have to become more outrageous and more outrageous with your claims to get eyeballs on it because when you got platforms like this well i can pretty much say what i want i might get cancelled by mainstream media but quite frankly i couldn't care less anymore because i saw the figures last night. It was hardly anything. Less than half a million tuned into it.

People have to remember what if these boys, these guys, Wade and James are not in this for the money. Why are they suing the estate for hundreds of millions of dollars? Why have they lost appeal? Appeal. Now they're going after the companies. They can't get Michael Jackson. So they're going after the companies and the people like me who knew him, who protected him and were his friends. All you have to do, if you want to prove your innocence, Dan, yes, you need to sue for money. Go and sue for one dollar. Wade and James, sue for one dollar, prove your case if it's true, and then leave it alone. You don't have to sue for hundreds of millions of dollars. It's utterly ridiculous. And I think these channels and broadcasters

need to start backing up stuff with facts. The other thing too, and I'm going to rant a little bit here because Michael was a very, very close friend of mine. Do it. It's about time that you can't defame a dead person. People watching this don't understand. When you die, anyone can say anything about you,

and no one can sue. No one can do it. A family member can't do anything about it. So Michael's been dead now almost 16 years. You can say what you want. The state can't sue. No one can do anything at all, especially some random stuff like this.

Now, why would I be here today? I've got six children i've got one of the biggest children's organizations in the world i stood by this man in 2005 through this the child devastation allegation because i knew him i knew him my kids stayed with him we had hotel suites with him he had girlfriends that he had wives he was only into women go on to youtube you're finding videos of him pointing out the women he likes that he wants us to bring to his hotel room. He used to call them fish.

That was his code. I like that fish, that fish. Why does everyone keep ignoring all this? Michael Jackson was not into young boys. It's utterly ridiculous. And wherever we go in the world, and I'm sure you've had experiences, I know you have, Dan, very, very high profile people.

The first thing we do is we put a CCTV camera up on the hotel suite entrances to stop people coming in and to make sure Mr. Jackson's OK. And bear in mind, I was a friend before Bodyguards. I had a room inside the suite. The only people that were inside that room and the doors were locked when I couldn't get into the living room or into his bedroom it's when he had a girlfriend in there and they're not coming out because they've all been paid off and told to sign ndas and so on and they don't want to be linked to all this apart from a few of them but because it goes against a narrative mainstream media doesn't want to cover it you know a big news outlet called me the other day and said we want to have your opinion on Michael.

I said, why don't you bring his girlfriend? She's published a book. It's clearly true that Michael Jackson's estate would have sued him, sued the girl, or Michael would have sued her because she published it when he was alive. There's pictures, there's evidence, but no one's interested. They believe in this absolute nutcase narrative that the biggest star in the world who stayed relevant all those years even now he's the biggest star in the world i think dan reed the documentary maker admitted that yesterday on a i won't give her any publicity but a certain tv channel that you used to commentate on now when you're the biggest star in the world you're the biggest target in the world when you're the man of the moment everyone goes after you and it's about time we stop stop allowing defamation of people that are dead we

should be able to say what you want you need facts to back up stop making these tv certain channel that keeps doing it over and over and over again we saw it with andrew tay i don't know those guys but i do know michael jack. And he is not into kids. I wouldn't be here today, put my reputation at risk as well. It's a load of nonsense. Wade James, if you don't want the money, if you're not suing for money, I know you have to sue for something. Sue for $1 and prove your case.

It's all about the money, Dan. Always has been, always will be. And Matt, one of the things that a lot of folk point to when it comes to Wade Robson and James Safechuck is that in the past, they had both defended Michael Jackson. Indeed, at the 2005 criminal trial, where remember Michael Jackson was found innocent, Wade Robson was really the star witness he he was

probably the the main person to get michael jackson off now they claim that it was only much later in their life that they decided that they could open up about the relationship because their relationship with michael jackson was so strong they even felt like they were in love with him in a way well it's interesting how they how they they you are right they were the star witnesses wave was the first witness on because he's so strong. And this is a guy, he must've been like 24 back then. Yeah, same age as me. And forget about the trial. Years later, after he was the star witness for Michael,

yeah, a lot of people put it down to Wade Robson and Macaulay Culkin. But years later, when Michael passed away, Wade did a great tribute to Michael. And then also in 2012, there's a big show in Vegas, and Wade Robson met with John Branca, who's the head of Michael Jackson's estate, to try and convince him

to be the director and be in charge of this Michael Jackson show, Circus of Slaves, Vegas. He didn't get the job. You've got to remember, Wade has known nothing but earning off the back of Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson introduced him to Britney Spears. He helped to get a job on MTV. I won't get into the Britney Spears thing too much, but there's a lot of controversy into that. Go check it out. Also, Wade was dating Brandy Jackson.

Now, Brandy is Michael Jackson's niece, Jackie Jackson's daughter. And he was at Neverland, and he said to Michael, Michael, really fancy. I'm in love with Brandy, your niece. Any chance you could introduce me to her? Michael introduced Brandy Jackson, Jackie Jackson, son of his older brother, daughter to Wade, and they dated for like seven, eight years. They had a sexual relationship. So these two things don't add up.

On one hand, he's saying he's being molested by Michael Jackson. On the other hand, Brandy Jackson has been on record that she dated and had a sexual relationship with Wade Robson for many, many years. Why isn't that in the documentary? Why isn't that in Surviving Neverland? Surviving Michael Jackson and Leaving Neverland. Why don't they mention the fact Wade dated Michael Jackson's niece? Goes completely against the narrative.

It's just madness. I just don't understand where this world's got to and it's very, very sad. I think you're shocked that you've heard that yourself, Dan, have you? Yeah, well, there have been also lots of examples of selective editing as well of Leaving Neverland. I just want to show one example of it and get you to respond yes that one

we will land on you like a ton of bricks we will land on you like a hammer. If you do anything to besmirch this man's reputation, anything to intrude on his privacy in any way that's actionable, we will unleash a legal torrent like you've never seen. Michael called and I hadn't talked to him in a real... So what you can see going on there, Matt Fadas, is selective editing of Mark Garagos to the point where it makes it look as if he was making this wide, unbridled threat. We're going to come after you if you say anything.

Actually, he was specifically referring to anything that invaded Michael Jackson's privacy. But that selective editing, and we've seen this a lot with Donald Trump and Kamala Harris over the last election and the mainstream media, that selective editing actually changes the meaning. And it's almost trying to rewrite history.

Are you concerned about that? So Mark Gregoros was Michael Jackson's first attorney, solicitor, lawyer, depending on where you're watching this from, in the trial against Gavin Avizo. And he's addressing the media there saying, you don't write nonsense, we're going to sue you. He's talking to the media.

Obviously, when you watch that, when it's been edited to leave in Everland, and Mark Gregor was very angry about this, by the way, and he did a statement about this. It looks like he's threatening Wade and James. We'll go after you, any of you accusers. He's actually talking to the media in general. Don't write nonsense about our client or we will sue you.

Well, what the cost? They had enough of it back then. But yeah, editing, mis-editing going on. I mean, the Russell Brand thing. I don't know Russell, but when you watch that, you've got women who are actors playing women. You've got no names, no criminal charges, from what i understand

they almost ruin the guy you know lucky enough he's probably strong strong enough to get through all this he was cancelled everywhere just like you were dan your thing was ridiculous by the way but this was an absolute crazy fearful thing for him to go for i can't even imagine it but you'll find this desperation i believe for mainstream media to get eyeballs. I can't even imagine it. But you'll find it's desperation, I believe, for mainstream media to get eyeballs so they can turn around and salamatize him. This is how bad it's getting now. Michael's dead. He can't defend himself. Bless him. He's gone.

Media flipping killed him. They drove him mad. And the drugs and the doctors and so forth. They've got to remember, too, people look at Michael and they think, oh, he's wearing makeup. He's got one glove. His trousers are too small. He wears a face mask and shades.

He puts sticky tape on his nose. Well, you've just fallen into his trap. He was a genius marketer. Behind closed doors, when all that was off, you had a normal human being who was very shrewd. We used to get to hotel rooms.

They're like, how can we make the front pages? What can I do? The tape on his nose, Dan, was not his nose falling off. It was allergy tape. He wanted the media to roll with that narrative because he knows the billions it would make him. He didn't want also anyone to know if he's gay or if he's straight because he got taught by Motown from a young age, don't let your fans know because it will kill your fan base by half. You've got to stay neutral. Towards the end, he started to let

people in, but obviously he made the fatal mistake of letting Martin Bashir into his life. I was actually in that initial meeting. Martin pitched. What happened there? Because he's turned out to be such a dodgy guy, Martin Bashir. Well, no one believed me

for years, Dan. I used to say it was just me. Matt Fidesz. I won't name his other friends. I haven't got their permission. Another very famous person in the meeting. An assistant of that famous person. And Michael. Michael wanted me to sit in it. He had three choices. Louis Farouk, Sir David Frost.

Michael knew Sir David Frost too. And Martin Bashir. We wanted him to go with Sir David Frost. But he was obsessed with me and Martin Bashir we wanted him to go with Sir David Frost but he was obsessed with me and Martin Bashir because of the Princess Diana connection Michael Jackson and Princess Diana were close friends we go into the hotel suite I remember the hotel, it was called the Renaissance Hotel

in Hyatt Holborn in London at the time, and we sit there Martin comes in and he says Michael, I am going to put everything straight, I'm going to put everything straight. I'm going to knock out these stupid rumors about child molestation. I'm going to show the real you, your genius of publicity, your music, your art, your dance, your creativity. We're going to talk about your childhood, what it's like to be Michael Jackson moving around.

Michael wasn't completely sold. Then Martin reached to his pocket and he gets out this very scrumpled handwritten letter, hands it to Michael. Michael reads it and Michael loved Diana. He said that was his perfect wife. And he read it out and he's like, wow. And basically the letter said, thank you, Martin, for changing my

life, my image. You've done wonders for me and so on. I won't go into more details on that because it was very private but it was basically praising this year after he handed the letter back to this year michael said i want you and we left that room and we thought michael jackson being the powerhouse was going to wrap martin this year in big law firms legal documents and stop anything happening and he screwed him now we know all these years later,

I've been telling the media this for years. I was there in that meeting. Only three of us and Michael Jackson. I witnessed the BS coming out of Bashir's mouth. Now everyone's like, why didn't you speak out sooner? But I couldn't get it printed. No matter how many interviews I gave at the time, it went against the narrative.

It went against it. Now we all know it's true. And I'm hoping one day, just like they did at the Princess Diana investigation, they'll do a michael jackson investigation with bishir too because he deserves it he deserves to be outed that would be fascinating actually well you want to go watch that i found people watching this show they need to go watch i'm going to youtube and put michael jackson the footage you were never meant to see whenever michael was alive he recorded his life. He believed that life's worth living is to record him.

So he wanted to record his life for his kids and so on. He had cameras rolling the whole time Bashir was interviewing. Bashir forgot about them. So they released a documentary after this came out. And it's literally so. It's like Martin would say on his program, Living with Michael Jackson, Neverland is a creepy place. See Michael with children. and it's literally so it's like martin would say on um his program living living with michael jackson all neverland is a creepy place seeing michael with children and then behind the scenes

we've got michael persia saying michael you're so amazing with neverland what you're doing for children every year is incredible busting in 20 000 children a year for make a wish foundation it completely contradicts it but unfortunately positive media doesn't sell the negative one got 50 million views where the real truth only got a few million views unfortunately but really interesting and look sometimes i think uh matt it's the small details that matter as well and look i understand in society we've always felt oh, we can never question a victim. But, and certainly this is something where I've done a total 180 after being falsely accused myself, these people are not victims. They are accusers and they should not be called victims. And the problem is you do have to question what they say. So one small example on James Safechuck, right?

He, in the interview, mentioned a train station at Neverland when this abuse he claimed was taking place between November 1987 and January 1990. But Matt, the planning documents show that the train station wasn't even built until September 1993. So I guess you could say, oh, maybe his memory has changed or he's seen the pictures of the train station. But unfortunately, those small details matter, don't they? Well, only was it the planning document showed it wasn't built. There's actually Elizabeth Taylor, the movie star, got married at Neverland.

So the aerial shot so clearly it was not built. And we're not talking by a couple of years, Dan. We're talking like he would have been in his mid-20s by this point. So it was a complete disaster. There's many of these examples, like Wade Robson not going to the Grand Canyon and being left with Michael Ware. And apparently there's pictures showing him that he was at the Grand Canyon. But, yeah, it's a haptic job.

It's very sad for people like me to see. And when they start attacking us too, I have to speak out. I've turned down all mainstream media interviews. Some of the bigger ones are friends of yours as well, because I want to be getting this across. I don't want to be screaming with my panellists who are trying to get their objective across because they didn't know Michael Jackson like I did.

I wouldn't be here. I've got six kids. I'm putting my own name on the line here. The guy was wonderful. Yes, he was eccentric, but most superstars are. Most creative geniuses are very different to us. He couldn't go out he couldn't

he can't even imagine what his life was like he was just paparazzi everywhere he went he's never even when he had to shop he couldn't do it in fact we actually created a fake shopping experience for him once where all his staff were dressed up and he went to shopping in California. It was an unusual life. But another thing, Dan, too, Neverland was built not for Michael Jackson. He built that because he wanted to give back to charities like Make-A-Wish Foundation. It's estimated over 20,000 children per year will bust through Neverland as an experience for them, sick children. Are you telling me how those 20,000 kids

rushed through? We've got two guys who were basically funded by Michael most of their life. Just two guys, that's it. Gavin Avizo, that was found not guilty. That was complete nonsense. And the Geordie Chandler one, I've already explained to you what happened there, where Michael thought he was

going to have a criminal case to fight and prove his name when he got back from a dangerous tour now i wouldn't want money dan i wouldn't want money if someone's trying to bless my children or bless my kids i won't even tell you on this show what i'm gonna do because i will get cancelled i'm not gonna show you i wouldn't want money i would not want money okay no i totally. Matt, much more to ask you. Stand by. We'll be back with you in just one minute. But first, the reason you're watching this show is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to trust mainstream media or the so-called fact checkers who claim to determine which facts are true. And there's good reason for that, given the debate over free speech,

the controversy surrounding Brexit, and how Trump and other politicians challenging the status quo are portrayed. But I have the solution for you. It's called Ground News, and it's the best way to stay informed and cut through media bias and narrative so you can get the facts for yourself. Go to ground.news.com to check it out. But I want to show you this incredible website in action before I reveal a massive discount. So let's look at this game changing speech by US Vice President J.D. Vance. It's actually my favorite story over the past few weeks. He gave it to the Munich Security Conference. He tore into the European governments. He tore into the UK for taking free speech away. And it was beautiful. You can see on ground news quite clearly that 361 sources covered this story.

It then instantly shows how the story is covered by the media, but broken down by whether they lean to the left or the right. This is called the bias distribution service. If you scroll down, you can see every article about this topic broken down by the political position and ownership of the publication. We can see for ourselves quite clearly Newsmax and GB News gave fair and accurate coverage focusing on how Vance finally had the guts to point out uncomfortable truths to European leaders. By stark contrast the left-wing HuffPost claimed the speech left all of Europe aghast while the Independent missed the lead altogether to focus on Vance's joke about Elon Musk because they would do anything to slag off Elon Musk. What's more, Ground News gets to

know you personally, providing you with the news stories you're interested in while also analyzing your own biases. Now, my favorite feature is called the Blind Spot Feed. This services upwards of 20 stories daily that you might not be hearing about because of the corruption of the mainstream media. So look, I know you love the news, but you don't trust the legacy media. Ground News gives you the tools to understand the truth about what is really going on in the world. It is the only way I read the news, allowing you to see through media bias and manipulative narratives. It's so good. So go to ground.news forward slash outspoken to check it out. Subscribe through my link today for 40% off the Vantage plan, which is what I use for unlimited access.

Ground News is subscriber funded, supporting my sponsors, also supports my work. And for less than a Netflix subscription, you can get all the world's news in one place and think for yourself. This has been a game changer for a news junkie like me. So let me repeat the address, ground.news forward slash outspoken. If you're watching on YouTube or Rumble, you can use the QR code on screen right now or click on the link in the description box below. But now back to the show. Who was the real Michael Jackson? And why did he want to have this relationship with children, one that his bodyguard, Matt Fidesz, claims and insists was completely platonic? Matt, talk to me about Michael Jackson, the person, the human being. Bean. Do you sign up to this idea that because he lost his childhood as a young star who was pushed around by his dad and forced to go on the road all the time, that it was the children

that made him feel young again? Is that why he wanted to hang out with kids? Because you know, you know, lots of people say, say matt why does a guy in their 30s or 40s want to be around young children okay let me address the the um never had a childhood mix i have an interesting view on this i i got to know all the jackson brothers and they were all under extreme limelight from a very young age down um me and tito jackson rest in peace great guy lovely lovely man who passed away just um in september we used to talk about this a lot and bear in mind there's not many years difference between most of them you got marlon jackson just a year younger tito's couple years older and so on now they they've turned out

to be okay if you ask about their childhood they're fine and of years older and so on. Now they've turned out to be okay. If you ask about their childhood, they're fine. And Jermaine and so on. The difference is, is that Michael Jackson was a very sensitive soul. He was a different maker. If you mess with Jermaine or Jackie, you're going to know it. You mess with Tito, you're going to know it. Whereas Michael, didn't have confrontation. He was very sensitive he he would watch tv kids starving in africa and he would be crying he was just different and um yeah they were all raised up they shared beds they didn't have a childhood i don't believe that was the reason why michael used to talk about this a lot and why he created neverland was another reason that he because he

couldn't go out and have fun time and so on. I don't think that's the issue. I just think it's the issue that it's a sensitivity. Now, why the children? Well, let's just clear things up. Everyone keeps going over about young boys.

Dan, it wasn't just young boys. There was girls and boys. He's got a big family. Got Taj, Tarrell and TJ. They used to be around there all the time. Tito's sons.

And they just, they go on and on deals, Jackie Jackson's son, and the nieces and so forth. It's just this narrative of boys. If you want to hurt someone the most, as famous as Michael, you go for the jugular. What's going to hurt him the most?

Murder, child abuse allegations. You're never going to recover. My ball stick. And he was the biggest target. And unfortunately unfortunately being the most powerful man in the world and he owned half of sony music publishing there's a lot of people want to get their hands on that and a lot of conspiracies about the way he died and so forth we still don't really know how he died right the cctv footage was missing from the mansion that he died in a lot of weird weird stuff went on, and he was fighting with Sony right to the end. So why did he want to hang

around with kids and animals? Let's not forget the animals. He had his own zoo. Because they don't screw him over, Dan. They don't want money from him. They don't want an autograph, a picture, a business deal. Remember, Geordie Chandler's dad, Evan Chandler, first approached Michael with a movie

script deal. He wanted to produce a movie. He did a movie called Men in Tights, Robin Hood Men in Tights. Michael turned it down. And then you've got all those audio tapes online on YouTube. People should go and check it out. It says, we're going to go through with this. I've got the biggest badass lawyer out there. We're going to win big time. Michael's not going to know what's hidden. And they all want something from the guy. And that's the difference between me and Michael. I never took any money from Michael. And I'm not saying this to brag.

I'm just telling the truth. You know this, Dan. By the time I was 18, I was already a multimillionaire. That's why I worked with me and him. I helped him out for free because I knew he was getting screwed because his regular security went. And his bill was like $150,000, $200,000 per month. Whereas me with the Mount Fidesz martial arts schools,

I could help him out for free. And we were friends for a year first and then it just developed. And whatever he wanted, I helped out, especially up to 2004. Then the Nation of Islam took over because he needed a high level protection for the trial. Then he went to Bahrain.

Then he lived in Southern Ireland, would you believe it, recording an album. Then he went back to Vegas where Bill Whitfield looked after him. And unfortunately, he fell back into the whole American trap. So he trusted kids. He trusted animals. He didn't trust adults. There's always some catch. Somebody wants something from him. I understand that. I also want to ask about Candace Owens and her claims, because you mentioned the battle with Sony, Matt. And Candace believes, and a lot of people do believe, that because Michael Jackson was challenging the music industry and the setup and the structure of the music industry, they wanted to silence him. We know, for example, that he had been very outspoken against Tommy Mottola, the boss of Sony at the time, who was married to Mariah Carey previously.

And Michael Jackson was like, this guy is evil. Is Candace Owens right that that played a part in Michael's cancellation? Sony Music are powerful. We were in London and Michael said one day, I want to hire a double-decker bus, Matt, and we're going to go outside Sony Music and we're going to do a protest. I said, what are you talking about? He said, just hire the bus and go along with it.

So we did. And he had all these big banners. We told all the fans. They came with us and were outside Sony Music. I think at the time it was on Tottenham Court Road. And he was there. all these big banners we told all the fans they came with us and we're outside sony music i think at the time was on tottenham court road and he was there um he was shouting terminate mottola tommy mottola you're right there the head of sony music yes mariah carey did used to call him and say this was going on this is going on they're not promoting your album and she was married to

tommy mottola that was the connection the head head of Sony Music at the time. Michael really believed, I remember being with him in Exeter, not far from here, in a hotel room and he threw a jacket on the floor and I said, what's wrong, Mike?

He said, I've just lost five years of my life working on this album called Invincible and Sony are refusing to promote it. They won't promote it

because when you make an album, it's what Michael told me anyway, okay? And I think it's been fact-checked by Candice as well, and it's true. When you make an album, you have to put collateral up for it. So you'd have to put a house up for it, something of value, because it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make, especially to Michael Jackson's standard

where he wants music videos and so on. So Neverland was mortgaged to their hilt. There's no more equity in that. So what he did have was the Beatles catalogue and also Eminem's catalogue and Happy Birthday song and all that. He owns all of that. And it was worth over a billion dollars.

So he gave that to Sony Music as collateral. What he believed is Sony Music tried to outsmart him, thinking, hang on a a minute let's not promote michael's album let him spend a couple hundred million dollars let the album be a flop and then we'll take the beatles catalog so that's worth a lot more money to us and michael went on stage and told all the fan this we did a we we turned up and announced that fan party in in lesser square called killer thriller and he told all the fans what Mariah Kelly told him, what he believed happened, and that Michael outsmarted

them, but it was too late by that point. Now, invincible wasn't a flop, but it was nothing compared to Michael Jackson's standards. He was, I used to say to Mike, the problem you've got is you're competing with yourself. He was trying to beat Thriller. Music moved to digital age by then. He was working with Will.i.am and Akon

to go on to downloads, but he had to be pushed. He didn't want to. He really wanted to beat Thriller. Music moved to digital age by then. He was working with Will.i.am and Akon to go on to downloads, but he had to be pushed. He didn't want to. He really wanted to beat Thriller. But Michael believes Sony Music were after him. So what Candice is saying is true. It's true. There is that question above. There was threats coming

in. There was aggression. Michael said some stuff maybe he shouldn't have. He called Tommy Mottola devilish. But he's hearing firsthand from Tommy Mottola's wife or ex-wife at the time of what has been said and what's being done so he had no reason to doubt it so so yeah when you're the most powerful man in the world they come after you Dan and we've seen many many examples of this I mean I remember talking to you about when you were interviewed by, you were interviewing someone famous. It's like your peak of your career on a certain TV show,

and you got cancelled. And you see with the likes of Andrew Tate and so forth, and what goes on there. The more powerful you get, they come after you. Because Michael's power was unbelievable. The music catalogue he had. Now, guess who owns it now? Sony. They bought it off the estate. and making a lot of money from it and actually i want to talk matt about the movie

the big movie because there's a huge amount of controversy surrounding this movie it's been delayed this is michael jackson's life. It's going to feature his music. But the consternation is over how much do the producers include these allegations? What do you think about that? Should it be part of the story? You can't whitewash Michael's life without the controversy he's had to live under um it should be part of the story i believe it is part of the story dan there is a little bit of a legal issue which they've had to tweak the movie because a contract was signed where they can

be seen to dramatize the 1993 allegations however this will be will be, the Michael Jackson state are working with the people that made the Bohemian Rhapsody, the Queen movie. So this is going to be massive. Probably the biggest movie of all time. $200 million budget. They reckon it's going to be unbelievable. And you can look at how big the other ones have been. And I know people have seen glimpses of it.

Michael's nephew, Jafar, Jermaine Jackson's son, Michael's older brother, is playing Michael, and he does an incredible job with the whole thing. When this comes out, it's just going to be an explosion in all the movies all around the world. And I think the nonsense will finally fall away. They have to address the allegations. They've got no choice.

The media attacks, the witch hunt. And I hope they do it justice, they do it in the right way. But at the same time, as I kept on going back from the beginning of the show, it's all a load of nonsense. If you want to hurt Michael Jackson, go after him with murder or child abuse. You want to hurt Andrew Tate, go after him with sex trafficking you know you seem a p diddy right now i mean i don't know p diddy but i went to a pd party with michael jackson we were there for about 10 minutes he went there because he heard that beyonce was there in vegas he whispered the p diddy's ear saying is beyonce here and p diddy said oh she just left and we went again there was none of this going on i'm not

saying it didn't happen after after a few hours later but as far as we were concerned it's very different another room i want to clear up to this jeffrey this epstein lift oh yes michael jackson's name appears on it let me tell you what happened one of michael's best friends was barry gibb the bgs he lived in palm beach in miami and they were recording an album together they actually did one together i'm not sure if it's wrapped up in legal so i think a single came out was leaked um and he spent a lot of time at barry gibb's house he loved it down there so he organized for an estate agent a real estate agent to line up on palm beach billionaire properties to go and view one by one.

I was with him then. And we didn't know who the hell the owners were. That's all confidential. Bear in mind, this guy back in, this is 2003. Back then, this guy, Jeffrey Epstein, never knew who the hell he was. He never had the publicity. So we viewed all these houses.

It so happened it turned out one of them was Jeffrey Epstein's house. He was selling his house. That's the connection. That is it. That's all it is. Michael didn't even know. He did a wave to them, moved to the next house. Waved to them, moved to the next house.

But mainstream media don't want to run with that. There you go. They're recording. That's at Barry Gibbs' house in Miami. Yeah, fascinating. I want to hear that album. I want to hear that album. Okay, that's very good.

You've cleared that album. I want to hear that album. Okay, that's very good. You've cleared that up. Then, Matt, I want to do something else because Piers Morgan hosted one of these big, furious debates about the whole thing this week with the director of Leaving Neverland, surviving Michael Jackson. Can we watch along a couple of these key moments and then I'll get you to respond afterwards, Matt? Sure. And nor, as it turned out, would I allow my 13-year-old son, as Geordie Chandler did at the time, to spend 30 consecutive nights in the same bed as Michael Jackson. Right. And then later, of course, that is shocking. It's immoral and it's unacceptable.

My point is, I'm thinking it was a sleepover. OK, let me come back. I'll come back to Dan on that. I mean, that one fact alone is just so weird and creepy and unusual that, you know, who knows what went on in that room, except that every night for over a month, Michael Jackson is going to bed in the same bed with a 13-year-old boy. Now, I think it's reprehensible the parents let him. I completely agree with Rabbi Shmuley about that. I would never have ever allowed that. It's reprehensible. They took a massive payoff to shut up about it. We'll never know what was said because there was no admission of guilt on Jackson's part, obviously, as part of the settlement. And in America, you know, many big stars settle stuff all the time when they're not guilty of crime. So you can't read anything into

that. But just on the facts alone, Dan, I would say that a lot of people will say that alone, that one piece of information does suggest that there was something very weird about this. Well, that's the question I always ask of, you know, the fans and the people who knew Jackson well. What was he doing in bed with these little boys? You know, Wade was seven and James was 10 when they alleged the abuse started. What was he doing with these little boys alone you know, Wade was seven and James was 10 when, you know, they alleged the abuse started. What was he doing with these little boys alone in bed? If you're, you know, nostalgic for your childhood and you want to be in the presence of children, why not play with the kids all day, you know, late at night, invite their mom into the bedroom, watch a movie. And then when it's time to sleep, let the child leave with his mother or father.

Matt, how do you respond to that? Probably the only sensible thing I've seen Dan Reid actually say. Now, I'm a dad, and I certainly wouldn't let a grown man sleep in my children's bed. I wouldn't let a child who I didn't know at the same age sleep in my children's bed, or a family member child or i didn't know the same age sleep in my children's bed or a family member but what you have to understand here we'll never know that what i can tell you though is my friend was not a child molester molester and the other thing i can tell you too

just a few months later you've got the frats the audio record is the detectives could it have been a stitch-up could they have invited michael to stay there every night and encourage it all the time so they can bring this lawsuit against michael not a criminal case but a lawsuit which apparently set off for 20 million dollars i can't defend it all i can say is what the hell were the parents thinking what are they doing in the first place or either looking for money or looking for trouble or they should they should not be parents they should have their children taken off them because it's not right a completely not right now when we talk about neverland and sleeping in the bed there where dan reese talking

about that's a different situation neverland michael jackson's bedroom is it's the size of a mansion it's two floors several bathrooms two double beds fireplace arcade it was very normal to be in there watch tv with michael eat popcorn the chef will come in with kfc and so on and you fall asleep you just fall asleep mccaldy colin's cleared this up and kieran colin and and um brett barnes and lots of other people and tito's sons that was normal it. It's like a house. People think Neverland's Michael's house. When Michael's walking around, he's got over 150 security staff guarding him. He's followed everywhere. People are parachuting in thinking, oh, I don't know where I am.

They knew where they were. They're trying to meet Michael Jackson. He had to run to his panic room, which people say is a sex abuse room. Nonsense. It's a panic room. Had to use it often. People always say there's a corridor with a map where an alarm will go off when someone's near his bedroom. Yes, it's true. And if I was Michael Jackson, Dan, I would want one of them as well. I know some other

big stars, and I won't name them, but they're Hollywood stars who've got exactly the same security device. When someone gets near their bedroom, alarm goes off, they bolt the door, they make sure they're okay, they go into the panic room until they hear from the head of security that everything's okay. That's standard security that was put in to protect Michael. It's got nothing to do with him being caught out with kids. So his only private place in Neverland is his bedroom quarters. That's it. The rest of it is people staring at him, staff, security guards, CCTV. That's the only place he can chill out. But it's the size of a house.

You know, but again, unless you've lived it, and you know Michael, you'll never understand it. That man wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone a kid. That guy was the kindest, softest man ever. My children spent many, many hours with him he's taken shopping at hamley shut it down for that no concern whatsoever because i had seen him with women i used to sneak women into his room dad he wanted you to believe this this narrative when we would walk out corridor go outside the hotel he'd say matt remember we got to keep my life the greatest mystery on earth if i'm not interested people will not be interested

in me no more hence the face mask the shades the makeup he did it he learned this from harold hughes he studied the greats he knew he had to be mysterious and we all had to create that environment for him now it's backfired on him because he can't talk about it. Social media age. The media used to love it. They used to love it when they put, you know, Daniel,

editor of the newspapers, he would have made the company do billions of dollars. It was a win-win relationship. Totally. The paparazzi, Mr. Paparazzi, I remember him down in Lyons.

Oh, I do. He'll tell you how he is, man. Michael and the others will be on the phone. Hey, there's no paparazzi outside my hotel. Sort it out. You know? It's not a thing no more.

Oh, God, I love it. I love the insight. Can I show you one more clip from the Piers Morgan interview? Sure. I was never in the room when any of this alleged stuff was going on. I do think Michael Jackson was a weird guy. I do think it's very weird for a guy in his 30s, 40s, 50s to share a bed with young boys who are not his children, right? I think that's creepy. I think it's weird.

It's like it's not something most people would find acceptable behavior, but does it make him a pedophile? And Dan, I guess the question I would say to you is you're back with another film. It's six years after the first one. Have you really advanced the debate on whether Michael Jackson was guilty of pedophilia or is it a rehash of these two guys who are making these claims but actually haven't got any more evidence? Well, it's neither. So this new documentary is about lawsuits that were filed

way before I met Wade and James, and the lawsuits are against Jackson's companies. So it's really saying to the people who work for Jackson, you enabled this, you let him get away with what he did to us as children. And now we're going to hold you to account. We're going to try and change the law. We're going to try and make this sort of thing unacceptable in the entertainment industry in California. And that's what they're trying to do. But you, you, you on, are you 100% certain that Jackson was guilty? Are you 95 95 percent certain how would you categorize after

you listen you've immersed yourself in this for so long how do you how would you categorize your own belief about what he may have or not have done i'm 100 certain i mean i've i've and you can see in the new film there's interviews with lapd detectives there's interviews with santa barbara a sheriff's department detective who investigated jackson they were all convinced that he was he was uh a pedophile that he liked to uh have sex with children so um and you know i've i've got to know wade and james also i you know they i'd be naturally suspicious i don't want to stake my reputation on believing two people who are lying to me they had both just to be clear for viewers who don't follow they they had both sworn under oath at one of Jackson's cases involving the child abuse. They both swore under oath he hadn't abused them. Then they, as they later in their lives,

they reversed that and said he had. I mean, that's one of the reasons why a lot of people have been very sceptical about their testimony. But that's the whole, that's the story of Leaving Neverland. I mean, Wade Robson was defence witness number one in the 2005 criminal trial. And he's probably one of the main reasons why Jackson walked free out of that court, you know. He was an amazing witness. And the story of why he's now saying something different,

that's the story of Leaving Neverland. So 100%, he says, Matt, 100% certain your response. Well, you know, anyone who looks like an egg concerns me anyway. But with all respect to Dan Reid, where's the facts? Where's the evidence? You can't just go, imagine if someone made a documentary about him right now with no facts, what it would do to his family. I don't know if he's got children or his children and so

forth, it would be devastating for him. You've been under that scrutiny, Dan. He's got to understand him. Michael's got three children. He's got brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, all being affected by this. And just for what? For viewings? For eyeballs?

How could he be 100%? He said he talked to the detectives. And they said that they're 100 certain on what michael got investigated for 10 years by the fbi we only found that out in 2005 10 years tapping his phone calls watching everything speaking to people nothing at all then he got found not guilty in one of the toughest courts in the world with a district attorney who was out to get him and this guy saying that there's detectives that believe it there was no evidence of anything all they were coming from neverland was heterosexual porn magazines which believed that he was into showed that he was into women and there was nothing else it was just complete

and utter nonsense so again is is this how we're going with mainstream media that we're that desperate that we're gonna make programs like this about people and ruin their lives and ruin their families i mean it's just despicable i got invited to do pierce show the other night and i didn't do it respectively because i know me and you we can talk i don't want to be screaming over other panelists and that's exactly what happened in fact i thought pierce was quite fair to michael i don't think pierce believes it at all and in his 2019 interview he went after dan reed and he had targe jackson on the next day and he gave targe a platform and pierce was like i'm sorry but they're going after money because in

leave in neverland the first show the four hours if it takes you four hours to convince someone it's a paedophile, it's very wrong, Dan, as it is. But in that four-hour hit piece, they didn't mention once that Wade and James were suing the Michael Jacks to save hundreds of millions of dollars. I think if they did, a lot of people would have switched channels for what a load of nonsense. They skipped that.

They addressed it in last night's episode. But again, like I said, they keep saying it's not about the money. Go and sue for a pound. You can have the same result. Clear your name. Have your day in court like Wade Robson keeps saying. And prove it. You don't have to sue the estate for hundreds of millions of dollars.

And it's getting outrageous and ridiculous. And it's about time this all stopped and Michael's left to rest in peace. Because he's an easy target. He's the biggest star in the world. And when the movie comes out, let me tell you my theory on this, Dan, too. So you mentioned that the movie was delayed to October. It's

October the 3rd. It was due out now. What a coincidence. Have we ever heard of the concept of newsjacking? Where if that documentary last night coincided with that movie being in all the cinemas people will be absorbing the michael jackson mania that's going to be happening i think dan reed planned this to come out to coincide with the release of the biopic michael

and that's got pushed back and he couldn't move it and he's left out there in the lurch. He actually said on a TV show yesterday morning, on Lorraine Kelly's show, that this will probably get blown away, my little documentary, by this movie in Hollywood, because Hollywood is powerful. I believe he knew that, was trying to line them up together, and then he would have got millions of views

all around the world. And people would have bought this document and bought into it as another side. Instead now, he's up against a $200 million massive movie that will have to be fact-checked. It'll have to go through the legals and so forth because there's lots of things. He's still the biggest star in the world.

And this documentary will be forgotten about. Michael's music will live forever. Michael's generosity and charities will live forever. The people that know him, his amazing fans around the world will always have his back. Because if you got to know the real man, Dan, I wish I knew you back then, because I would have took you to his hotel suite

and you would have known within 10 minutes, wow, this guy's not what you thought he was, you know? Yeah. I love your passion. I love that we've been able to have a proper deconstruction of this story. And as you know, you've been a big part of me getting to a different. Before we end here,

I know it's your show, but I can't for the fact, the fans state, the Michael Jackson state, I need to ask you, do you eat your words back? You had quite a vicious attack on Lorraine Kelly's show, 2019. Do you feel you made a mistake?

Yeah, I do. I do, actually. I spoke about this with Megyn Kelly, I don't know if you remember, on my GB News show. Because, and look, a lot of people will say, oh, well, all well and good you saying it now, now that I've come for you. But the thing is, Matt,

it's only actually when you understand how a witch hunt can work and the depraved levels that people go to to lie about people in the public eye to either destroy reputations or make money. I think it was only when I saw that up close that I actually really understood. And so absolutely, I apologise.

Do you believe Michael Jackson was innocent then? Well, look, I don't think anyone knows if they were in that room, but, and this is the big, big but, he was found innocent in a court of law. And what I am sick of and what I hate, the fact that I was part of a previous movement which didn't believe in the sanctity of that process do you see what i mean i you know we have to have pressures on you but we have to live in a society where we are all innocent until proven guilty and he went through that trial. And I believe I should have respected that process. And as Iloid newspapers want to do? Reveal big stories about people. Sometimes, unfortunately, Matt, what that means, that hunt for the story means that you're more likely to believe an accuser. And note, I will forever now refer to these people as accusers until they are proven to be correct in a court of law. So, look, it's not that I feel that I can declare anything.

But what I can do is respect the law, respect the process and respect the court case where Michael Jackson was proven innocent. And obviously, I have regrets, just like I have regrets about the way that I was involved in the Johnny Depp case as well. And for me, one of the things about going independent is actually to be able to have these honest conversations, to admit when I got things wrong, but also to explain about why some of these things do end up happening. And I think certainly we were in an era, weren't we, of believe all victims. All victims should just be believed, Matt. That's where we were all at. Do you remember after the Harvey Weinstein case, the Me Too movement? And unfortunately, that was quite easy for me to go along with that when i

was working in the mainstream media okay fine just all victims are to be believed but remember it wasn't just the media saying it was kes dharma the prime minister who was then the head of the cps saying it so look you're you're right to question me you've questioned me about this before on stage and actually played it to me and look i'm a different person now after what i went through and i am certainly much more open-minded much more wise to the mainstream media much more understanding about what a media witch hunt is and so i hope that explains i think tribal media needs to stop that no one should be named until they're found guilty. There should be a rule there. Totally.

When you're not guilty, you're not guilty. That's the end of it. And you should not be able to defame a dead person. I mean, it's just wrong. Thanks for having me on your platform. It's been amazing. And just to clear up, I said to Dan, there's no questions. We've not planned anything. We've come out with these very difficult

subjects. Correct. We've handled it. i'm glad i totally nothing was off limits as you know and i did want to put both sides and i think we've done that matt fidesz did i pronounce it right matt it's okay that's the thing now isn't it dan dan rooter it's matt fidesz i think that's what i'm saying i think that's what i'm saying okay let's just put it down to an accent thing Matt but I love your work so brilliant to have you on Outspoken today and thank you so much for your company throughout the show huge amount of feedback

because we've been running a little bit longer than usual apologies for that but I think it was really worth having that conversation with Matt but going back to the issue of the reform UK civil war, Gemma James writes, I found this rhetoric from Farage towards Lowe uncomfortable, sickening and eye-opening. Farage and the others, including Oakeshott, referring to Isabel Oakeshott, obviously don't realise the damage they are doing towards reform. However, there's another side of the argument from AB Trains, who says, right, I'm getting

sick to the back teeth with this rubbish. Can we just be quiet about Rupert Lowe for one day a month? Can we just move on as a family of folk who want our country back? And Graham Jackson on this whole issue of Rupert Lowe has been, you know, boosted by cyberbots, says these so-called cyberbots are disgruntled reform supporters. Thousands are ready to leave. I support Rupert Lowe. So look, we're divided on this issue. We're divided on this issue. My view is that I have to keep having the debate.

Okay, Union Jack has Greatest Britain Time. The nominees, a quick reminder, Matthew Stadlin, nominated by Greek Gareth, Nicola Sturgeon, nominated by It's A Bit Much, and Prince Harry, nominated by Mouseville Toys. With 27% of the vote, scheming Sturgeon, she can win nothing these days. With 32% of the vote, Matthew Stadlin, but yes, you've finally done it. Prince Harry, the ginger whinger, finally. Today's Union Jackass, I've been waiting for this moment. It hasn't

happened since we brought back the feature from my old GB News show. So congratulations, Harry, the greatest Britain winner. Oh, goodness, he's going to be annoyed by this, Prince Harry, because the greatest Britain is Elon Musk. It's an honorary one nominated by Fat Faye, and it is for bringing home the astronauts. Well done, Elon Musk. We salute you. Now, coming up on the uncancelled after show on Substack, the Sidley twins of Twin Talk join me stateside to reveal why Gwyneth Paltrow has spoken out on Meghan Markle.

At this stage, we move off YouTube and rumble. We move to our own platform to continue that conversation, www.outspokenlife. Back tomorrow, 5pm UK time, 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific. I'm going to be reporting on this Tommy Robinson court case. Very, very important day. Make sure you're here at five o'clock. Hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or Rumble. And most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you.