Dan Wootton Outspoken - NIGEL FARAGE WANTS ZIA YUSUF OUT AS REFORM CHAIR WITH STAFF EXITS & ATTACK ON OUTSPOKEN

Episode Date: April 18, 2025

Go to https://ground.news/outspoken to see through media bias and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month. Blessed solemn Good Friday. This is a day of mourning and remembrance – one of the most important on the Christian calendar. And – shock horror – we do remain a Christian country, for now at least. So why is King Charles so determined to mark this holy day by talking about Islam and Judaism? It’s a very bizarre position for the Head of the Church of England to take and we’ll be respectfully debating it today with a very special Good Friday Superstar Panel: Reverend Canon Father Phil Harris and Connor Tomlinson, contributor to Courage Media and host of the New Culture Forum’s brilliant Deprogrammed podcast. But in his Digest: Dan kicks off with a response to the unhinged attack on Outspoken by the Chairman of Reform UK Zia Yusuf. He then continues to report the facts about growing concerns from Nigel Farage over how Yusuf is running the party amid a flurry of new departures from Reform UK. PLUS: The British Bashing Corporation allows a deranged circling firing squad on Douglas Murray for spitting truths on Newsnight about Islam. AND: New Maddie McCann outrage as the investigation is given another £108,000 as other missing people are ignored. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Prince William has just promoted the man who made a series of bullying accusations against Meghan Markle in an escalation of the war between the Waleses and the Sussexes. Our Royal Mastermind Angela Levin is here with the latest. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. To watch the Uncancelled After Show for exclusive extra content EVERY weekday, sign up at: https://www.outspoken.live LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for new videos every day: https://youtube.com/@danwoottonoutspoken?si=-2BhmEbBSN1fyESS?sub_confirmation=1 ---------- Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts: Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-wootton-outspoken/id1762436723 Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/19Ltoneek2MSPL10CpSA1J?si=8f6d84e2db56448c ---------- Follow Dan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@outspokendan Follow Dan on Twitter: https://x.com/danwootton Follow Dan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danwootton/ Follow Dan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danwootton/?hl=en #DanWootton #DanWoottonOutspoken #news #outspoken #uknews Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Truck month is on now. Ask your GMC dealer for details. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooten. This is Outspoken, episode number 208. And bless you on a solemn Good Friday, a day of mourning, a day of remembrance, one of the most important on the Christian calendar. And shock horror, we do remain a Christian country, or now at least. The Quran says, God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear. We hope that you have a blessed and fulfilling Ramadan. Peace be upon you all. Ramadan Mubarak. As Muslims across the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth

observe the beginning of the holiest of months in the Islamic calendar. So my question is, why is King Charles, the head of the Church of England, so determined to mark our holy day by talking about Islam and Judaism? It is a very bizarre position for the head of the Church of England to take. We will be respectfully debating it today with my very special Good Friday superstar panel, Reverend Cannon, Father Phil Harris, and Connor Tomlinson, contributor to Courage Media, host of the New Culture Forum's brilliant deprogrammed podcast. But in my digest next, I'm going to kick off with this unhinged attack on Outspoken, this independent media platform, last night by the chairman of Reform UK, Zia Youssef. He called me a liar in an unhinged attack on X. I'm not, by the way, nor am I the enemy of Nigel Farage's insurgent party. Here's the truth. Outspoken is an

independent platform. I will never act as a propagandist for anyone, and I will continue to report the facts about growing concerns from Nigel Farage, from other senior figures in reform, about how Youssef is running the party amid a flurry of new departures. So we'll get into that in my digest next, but also coming up on the show today. The British bashing corporation allows a deranged circling firing squad to target Douglas Murray for spitting truths on Newsnight about Islam. A new Maddie McCann outrages the investigation is granted another £108,000 as other missing people are ignored. Then in the uncancelled show after show on Substack, www.outspoken.live, Prince William has just promoted the man who made a series of bullying accusations against Meghan Markle in an

escalation of the war between the Waleses and the Sussexes. Our Royal Mastermind Angela Levin is here with the latest. You can sign up www.outspoken.life. Plus, we will be revealing at the end of the show the worst person in the world this week. This is when we put all of the Union Jackass winners from Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, head to head. You choose the winner. We have had tens of thousands of votes already,

but just head to my community tab, my post tabs on YouTube. Let me know who you want to go for, and I will reveal the winners at the end of the show. I have to apologize too. Like, my hay fever is still so bad today. The tree pollen count in London is off the scale. I'm literally looking into what I should do. So one of you, and thank you very much, told me, okay, I've got to get some local organic honey from my area of Southeast London. I managed to do that last night. I was literally like eating six teaspoons of honey, which isn't good for my keto diet, let me tell you. And I am still shockingly blocked up. So just forgive me for that. And please go away, tree pollen. This is a particularly nasty

one. And I know many of you are suffering the effects. If you're not, just be grateful because hay fever is like a really cruel and unusual type of sickness. It's very, very odd. Anyway, let's go. I will address Reform UK Chairman Zia Youssef's deranged attack on me as a liar while dismissing our outspoken family of patriots imminently. But to be clear, I'm an independent journalist. I'm not a party political shill or a propagandist for any politician, even though I am open with you about my voting record and where I stand, unlike the liars who populate the MSM. So we do the news here. And the news today is that since Yusuf decided to launch his unhinged bile at me for reporting the facts, I've discovered things are actually far worse at Reform HQ than even I had previously realised.

Yousef's fury appears to be that Nigel Farage is now openly saying it's a matter of when, not if, he departs the job after a succession of high-profile departures. And just like with Rupert Lowe, the problem is these people leaving reform because of Yusuf are then being attacked by the party's high command in a bid to undermine them. Now, these people are not like Rupert Lowe. They're not people that you probably would have heard of, but they really matter because they have been critical to trying to turn reform into an election winning machine. And they're not leaving because of Nigel Farage, but rather the party chairman who has been acting in an increasingly dictatorial manner. They include Luigi Morton, the deputy director for campaigns and training. They include the brilliant ideas man and TikTok influencer Archie Manners, chief operating officer

Jonathan Brown, another well-liked staff member Lewis Williams, and the head of vetting Jack Aaron, whose sources say will be scapegoated for any vetting failures. The Times newspaper, you know, the establishment Times newspaper, part of the MSM. So let's see if Yousef decides to attack them today, because they have also reported in a wider feature about reform, the shocked departure of Richard Murphy, a former senior Tory operative who has told friends that Youssef was just impossible to work with. A source told the newspaper that Youssef's leadership style was, quote, abrasive, adding he runs the place like a financial services

company with a mantra of it's my way or the highway. But in typical Youusuf style reform responded with a source telling the newspaper former CCHQ operatives have tried to infiltrate the party only to be discovered and then try to destabilize reform by briefing against the leadership it won't work but here's why that's ludicrous no one is briefing against Farage the fury is is with Youssef, a man who had no political experience before being parachuted into the role, who is putting his own ego before what's best for the party. As one Farage supporter told me of the Youssef playbook earlier today, it's a pattern. Fire and then try to destroy. Meanwhile, the Times also reported today that Rupert Lowe's ejection has become a lightning rod for a, quote, far greater sense of unease. Within reform, with a source telling the paper, there's a lot of disquiet in the membership

and the branches. And look, that's all I've been reporting for weeks, which is what prompted Yusuf to lash out last night following my digest right here, revealing that Farage is now telling close allies he didn't know Yusuf was intending to release that egregious statement announcing he was reporting Rupert Lowe to the police, and also saying that Yusuf will be gone from the job within months. So after that digest went public and started to go viral, Yusuf posted to me, sure. And did our chief whip also know nothing about it despite being a co-author? Laugh out loud emoji. Dan, at some point, just making stuff up every day must get boring. We've built something special at Reform so you can huff and puff. You won't blow our house down. Have a great Easter weekend. Now, to suggest I'm attempting to destroy Reform is actually unhinged. It is completely untrue, just as it is to say that I am making stuff up when every single story I report about reform is backed up by multiple

sources. So given Yusuf had gone public with that, I couldn't say nothing. So I replied to him on X, you're incredibly thin skin for a man who wants to lead a party into government. Treating someone like me, who voted for Reform UK and features your allies most days on a genuinely independent platform as an enemy, is utterly insane. My source today was a senior member of Reform, based on a direct conversation with Nigel Farage last week. I know exactly what Farage said, and you don't. I will continue to support reform and give you a fair crack of the whip while keeping you honest what any good independent journalist should do. Perhaps you or Nigel should try talking to the

independent media and help create a MAGA-style revolution in Britain. Unfortunately, unlike GB News, I will not refuse to interview other good folks on the right like Rupert Lowe or Ben Habib or Howard Cox, but that does not mean I am working against reform. I am a journalist, not a propagandist, as I have always told you when directly requesting decent reform reps to appear on Outspoken. Unlike many others who claim to be independent, I am not trying to be a reform candidate. Always ready to continue the conversation and chat with you for our viewers who are what matters. The independent media revolution is coming. Don't be afraid of it. Embrace it.

But here's the thing, like the insanity of what Yusuf did last night is suggest that I have actually actively told people not to support reform, which is absolutely not the case. Just today, just today, I have been calling out the Daily Mail for running an unhinged attack on Andrea Jenkins, the Lincolnshire mayoral candidate, based on total lies. But when I was cancelled from the MSM, I made a pledge to you that I would be owned by nobody. Because for too long, I had seen the caustic impact of billionaire moguls, ambitious executives, or politically compromised editors putting their own interests ahead of that of their readers and viewers. So with this independent media revolution, never again

would those compromises have to be made on Outspoken. But of course, I was honest with you. I voted for reform. I was the first to predict Nigel Farage would lead a populist revolution and become prime minister in 2029. To be clear, by the way, and this is really ridiculous, I have to point this out, but I will, there have never been any personal issues between me and Nigel, unlike so many others on the right. I actually put Nigel Farage on the very first show on the very first night of GB News. Andrew Neil didn't want to do that. The management of GB News didn't want to do that. Then I encouraged him to host the seven o'clock primetime show at a time the channel was on its knees following the departure of Andrew Neer. We have also kept in regular touch since my suspension and eventual sacking from GB News. He was actually a supportive colleague of me.

And even though he publicly attacked Father Calvin Robinson and Lawrence Fox following our exits, which I didn't like, he has always been very kind about me. However, being honest and transparent about my vote should not have been confused with shilling or being a propagandist for the Reform UK party. So in the past, I've been honest with you about my support for Boris Johnson and my support for Liz Truss, but I have never become a member of a political party in the UK. Any approaches or overtures have been immediately rejected and will continue to be, just like suggestions before my cancellation, I might add, that I should consider a mayoral run or looking for a safe seat. Never, ever, ever. And that's not because I don't have the utmost respect for the people who want to do that. So I'm thinking of Alex Phillips and Darren Grimes and Matt Goodwin and Andre Walker. They are friends of

mine. They are incredible people who come on this show and I love giving them a platform and I fully support them wanting to enter the political domain. But for me, I am a journalist. That is in my heart. It is in my soul. Journalism runs through my veins. I will also admit that this week with reform's admission that it now views itself as a centrist party appealing to centre-left voters is difficult for me. I don't want another Big Ten party. I've been very clear on that and I'm concerned that they are rolling back on some policies that made them popular in the first place, changing demography of the United Kingdom, mass deportations, dramatic NHS reform. We are four years out from a general election. My job on Outspoken is not to shill for anyone out fit, but to try and help open the Overton window on the issues that really

matter. And no one who reads or watches Outspoken on a daily basis is in any doubt what I believe those issues are. I will also say Reform UK is not the only game in town, and nor should it be. Robert Jenrick is doing genuinely exciting work within the Conservative Party, although I would find it hard to ever trust that shower of a party again, although I like what he's doing. And what if he became leader with, say, Suella Braverman as his deputy, with, say, Rupert Lowe as Shadow Home Secretary? Maybe that could be an exciting proposition. Maybe. What if Ben Habib manages to turn the Integrity Party into a genuine force with big money backing

and a people's army, including Tommy Robinson supporters who have been brutally thrust out of reform? There are currently a multitude of what ifs because we are so far out from the next election. And everyone knows Slippery Starmer and his communist government are destroying this country at such a rapid rate that actually anything could happen. Like perhaps a new force could emerge. Perhaps a new leader could emerge. Macron in France did it in a year. So my point is that it's not for me to shape what happens politically, but it's rather for me to hold all parts of the right to account and give them an open platform that is often denied by the legacy media including GB News which by the way and this is important for

you to know has banned its reporters from interviewing Rupert Lowe at the behest of Farage and what I believe is an anti-democratic outrage. I am not regulated by the off communists. I would love Nigel and Yusuf to appear on Outspoken, answer my questions, answer your questions. But for the moment, senior reform figures have told me that this MSM and centrist strategy comes from them trying to appeal to upset former Labour voters and what they describe as sensible old school Tories. Now, I know that a whole load of upset former Labour voters and sensible old school Tories are here right now. You make up a decent percentage of the 126 million views we have had on Outspoken's YouTube channel alone since launching in July. I think that approach also fundamentally misunderstands the potential for engaging

with the independent media to lead to electoral success. It's just happened so beautifully with Trump across the Atlantic. So as I told Yousef last night, to somehow regard me as the enemy, to regard my outspoken audience with disdain, is to completely miss the point about what is a rapidly changing media and political climate. To react though, let me bring in today's superstar panel. And I am delighted to have on this good Friday, a solemn day, Reverend Canon, Father Phil Harris, and Connor Tomlinson, who is a senior contributor to Courage Media and host of the deprogrammed podcast at the New Culture Forum. So, Conor, look, there's lots to pick up on here. Can we start with the news? Because actually, that's what's most important. What do you make of the fact that there are a whole series of

senior departures from within Reform UK HQ, and it's nothing to do with Nigel Farage. It's all to do with these people finding it impossible to work with Zia Youssef. I mean, Kate Hoey, who's been a longtime supporter of Nigel Farage, has just responded to my ex-post saying, the sooner Youssef goes, the better. It's not encouraging this looks like a pattern, because if you had to dismiss, let's say, one person for not doing their job properly, some serious misconduct, as Rupert Lowe had to do with two of his staffers, as we know, with the ongoing dispute about workplace conduct. the more that the people are being ejected from the party, the greater the number goes, it looks like either the management themselves have made some serious errors in judgment in who they've hired, or internal problems with the management are causing all of these people to go. So it's not looking encouraging as to how reform is run. And I say all of this, like you, Dan, knowing there are plenty of good people in reform. I've had good conversations with them and I wish them the best

of luck. And all of our shared criticisms that we've levelled at them, coining the phrase critical friends, even. Which they hate. Critical friend to them, Connor equals enemy, which is so stupid. It's disappointing, but I can only live by my own conscience, Dan. Yep, me too. I say things as I mean them. If they're poorly taken, well, that's not my fault. That's their loss. All of the criticisms we make are not only to say to reform, here's how you can win,

because we think that currently them being petrified of being called far right is not actually a sensible electoral strategy when the majority of polling, for example, says that most of their own voters, 99%, but also most of even the Green Party voters want mass deportations for foreign sex offenders. Most of the public want to remove all illegal immigrants from the country, something that Farage has ruled out. So we're not just saying this is how you win, but also how you govern effectively, because it's all well and good good to as one reform insider put it to me carry the ming vase over the line during the local and then national elections but if by the time

that you've gotten to the finish line if the people carrying the ming vase don't believe in carrying the ming vase in the first place then they're just going to drop it when they cross the finish line and so you're going to get And what's the point at that juncture? Yeah. And you're going to get Trump term one rather than Trump term two. You're going to get chaos and ineffective governance rather than hitting the ground running

and repealing all the laws that are getting in the way of the mandate that reformed at least- Yeah, exactly. And Trump term one, Connor, I think was all about listening to those enemies in the mainstream media listening to those enemies in the deep state which is why i find it so frustrating that that barrage seems to be repeating that issue yeah what you've got to understand is when criticism is leveled at you is it leveled at you by someone who wants to see you succeed and they're

engaged in a shared project is it is it done with the sort of christian conception of love you know willing your good without expecting fair or favor in return or is it done by someone who's lying to your face and would rather see you dead in the street than win an election and the likes of itv channel 4 bbc lbc are the latter category they would rather see Farage and co fail than succeed because they would be out of a job if they didn't keep getting state subsidies and and operating within this very narrow parameter of political discourse and gaslighting the population to say that multiculturalism mass immigration trans ideology and the like are all just fine and hunky-dory. What you have to do is wage a kind of revolution in your own head against holding these people's opinions in high esteem.

I'm going to go back to my line that I use all the time, Dan. If you're saying it's softer than Douglas Murray, you are losing. And Douglas Murray himself has said that Farage needs to listen to the likes of his critical friends and Rupert Lowe. So I would say spend more time listening to Douglas and less time listening to the BBC. Indeed, indeed. And look at this poll, for example, via Find Out Now.

Support for mass deportation of illegal migrants, and let's remember that is something that Farage has said to Stephen Edgington is impossible. There is 100% support for that amongst Reform UK voters. You never see that. You literally never see that in a poll. It's astonishing. Amongst the Conservatives, 88.9%, even 52% of Labour voters want mass deportation of illegal migrants, 44% of Lib Dems and 27% of Greens. And let's be honest, they are a lost cause. So the reality is, Father Phil, these are popular policies. And that's why

this whole idea that there has to be some sort of big tent centrist approach, I think is very misleading because I would argue a mass deportation of illegal migrants is a big tent issue, overwhelmingly popular. Absolutely. We now are, you know, 100 percent is 100 percent, isn't it? It's not even like ninety nine9 it's 100% and and so people are really it is and to to you know I keep banging on about integrity and and honesty and I'm fed up of people trying to run with the hair and the hounds why can't we for once just have some integrity and actually nail our colours to the mast. And to say it's not possible, it clearly is possible. Why are we trying to appease certain people instead of actually doing what's right for the country? And I think the problem that I have had and I've had with the uni party and I'm now beginning to have with reform is they're saying

what they think people need or want to hear as opposed to what actually people really want because they haven't understood the people that are supporting them and we've seen swathes of people now actually questioning about reform and the whole Zia Youssef scenario is just utter madness. How we arrived here, how reform arrived here, I have no idea, but I know it's not a good place to be. And Father Phil, what do you make of his attack on my reporting, which has been completely honest? And I had so many messages from people last night saying,

why is he doing this? Why is he picking this fight? completely honest. And I had so many messages from people last night saying, why is he doing this? Why is he picking this fight? It makes absolutely no sense. Well, people don't learn. So firstly, I don't know what Zia Youssef has got in terms of followers, for instance, on X, but probably about 60,000 people, I would guess, you know, a 10 tenth of what you have. Don't pick that fight. You're not going to win it in the social sphere anyhow. But the important thing is don't pick a pot fight that's untrue. You know, you and I have known each other for some time now. And the one thing that I will say about you, Dan, is you do try to be absolutely fair and unbalanced. And I will never report something that I know to be a lie ever.

Well, I get cross when I see your feed and you'll see me occasionally pop up where people are going, oh, well, Dan, what about this? And Dan, what about that? And I think you've learned to kind of ignore those trolls now. But, you know, but you always give both sides. And I just think I have to report the truth. And the thing is, is that I know for a fact, Nigel Farage was saying last week on the campaign trail that he wasn't happy with Youssef's handling of the Rupert Lowe situation,

and he did not believe that he would be in post for much longer after the local elections. If I was not to report that that is Farage's private thinking, I would not be doing my job. I would be a reform propagandist. And by the way, that's fine. And I'm not being critical of those people. If you want someone who is going to be constantly pro-reform every single time, you can go and subscribe to Matt Goodwin. You can watch Matt Goodwin on GB News.

And by the way, I actually don't say that in a derogatory manner at all. I think Matt Goodwin does a brilliant job. I'm just trying to explain to folk who are disappointed with me for not always being slavishly, doggedly positive about reform. That isn't my role. It's never been what I see my role and it won't be my role going forward. Connor, I just wanted to play you this little moment from Nigel Farage's party political broadcast this week, where he did seem to concede that Reform UK was now going to become a party of the centre. Watch this. We are a patriotic party. We don't care whether you're centre left or centre right. If you believe this country needs to be shaped up, use those local elections on May 1st. Vote for reform. Let's take over

some of these councils and we'll show you in government what we can do. What do you think of that messaging, Connor? I think it's more of a rhetorical trick than necessarily saying it's going in a direction of travel, because we all know the phrase far right is meaningless. And so if the edges of the spectrum no longer have any meaning then the center clearly isn't well defined and actually you know the centrist opinion now the sensible centrist opinion would be mass deportations of illegal migrants the issue is that they've already ruled that out because they fear that the center is actually softer than it is i mean for example in in the immediate aftermath of the Southport trial,

a majority of the members of the public, I think it's 55%, support the return of the death penalty. 70% support it for terrorists, specifically. Now, other than Rupert Lowe, who is no longer in reform, I don't know if reform has an official position on that. So these sorts of hard aligned political issues are actually occupying a larger space in unrepresented political discourse than i think reform understands if they were a true centrist party and uh judging by the polling i'm happy for them to to bring themselves to the center on those issues then they would be saying okay we'll bring about the death penalty for pedophiles and terrorists and we'll be deporting en masse illegal migrants that the problem i think here dan as governed um as represented by your dispute with zia yusuf as represented by the dispute between nigel and rupert is that a lot of politics is being governed by personalities

rather than his principles and policies and i have to say as someone who's now voted for reform twice once for richard tyson the local by-election and once nationally and has voted for other parties as well that i'm really fatigued by all of the infighting i understand um the dispute is of the use of zone making i understand that of course rupert lowe needs to do all he can to clear his name but to have everyone going back and forth and taking pots and shots at each other for setting up new parties when they've been thrown out or disparaging one another's career or saying that they're disloyal or insufficiently supporting Farage as the leader of the movement because they have some criticisms of reform. Can we try and detach ourselves away from cults of personality, for whoever it may be, and talk

about the issues and the principles that are going to guide a political movement? Because it turns out the members of the public know how they feel and think all you have to do is represent how they feel and think and you're probably going to win breaking right now an extraordinary example of egregious bias at the britishhing Corporation, which hosted Douglas Murray, the brilliant author, the brilliant columnist, a man who is prepared to spit truths about the disastrous state of the United Kingdom and about the ways that Islam is going to potentially destroy our country. And I think they dealt with this in a way that was just so shocking so i'm going to take you through it all first up this is the interview itself between douglas murray and nicholas watt the news night political editor we'll get reaction from my superstar panel conor

tomlinson and father phil harrison one moment. But first, watch this. Because of that threat of Islamic extremism, we should have less Islam in this country. Was that a wise phrase, talking about less Islam? Well, I think it's a perfectly wise phrase, perfectly open to misrepresentation. I think I said it at the encouragement of the BBC. Well, I'm reading your article you wrote in The Sun. It was on the BBC, that's why. I'm quoting what you said in The Sun, less Islam. Surely less Islam means less people of the Muslim faith. That means less Sajid Javids, less Sadiq Khans.

Well, that depends. It means anyone who's a Muslim. That's what it means, isn't it? I mean, it would also mean less people like the Abedi family, wouldn't it? Yes, less extremists. The point is you're talking about less Islam. That is Muslim people. No, no, no. Just bear with me because I know better than you what I think. This country has had a wildly stupid and lax immigration policy for decades. And we allowed people like the Abedi family, a family of jihadists who'd

fallen out with Colonel Gaddafi because they were from rival jihadist groups. When the Abedi family fell out with Colonel Gaddafi, they came first to London and then to Manchester. And one of the sons they gave this country was Salman Abedi, who at the age of 22 killed 22 young girls at the Manchester Arena in a suicide bomb. One, by the way, for every year of life this country gave him. His brothers just stabbed and thrown boiling oil at three prison wards. That was horrific. Hang on. Why were the Abedi family in the UK? Why is nobody interested in asking that? And I'll tell you what the problem here is. There are lots of types of extremism.

You get far right extremism, far left extremism. When it comes to jihadist extremism, jihadism comes from Islam. Therefore, if it's 1%, 5%, 15% of people of the Muslim faith who follow that version of it, you've got a hell of a problem. I mean, what an incredible interview. What a fascinating discussion. But here's the issue with the British Batching Corporation. Who do they line up to respond? Two of the most unhinged nutters on the left you could possibly choose. The first is a woman who I am shocked anyone gives a damn what she has to say. The former leader of the Liberal Democrats, Jo Swinson, who was so unsuccessful in her bid to become prime minister, she actually lost her seat. She was up first. Jo, I mean, you'll presumably agree with Douglas Murray that there is a problem with Islamic extremism. We all want to combat that. But what did you think of what he had to say about less Islam?

Well, I think you were charitable in saying that he was talking to you earlier. I mean, he was sneering in a very self-satisfied way with extreme arrogance. I think, frankly, his contribution there was actually about sowing division, about trying to pit groups of people against each other. There is no contradiction, nor should anyone say that there is, between being appalled at the acts of October 7th, of the atrocities that Hamas carried out, and also being appalled at the violence meted out to children in Gaza and hospitals. I think most people watching this show would feel appalled and horrified at both of those circumstances.

And part of the problem here is when people are told they have to choose a side. Actually, this is about whether or not you're taking the side of division or whether or not you want to have the side of people getting along and living alongside one another in a country, as most people want to do and as mostly happens. And I think, frankly, I think the message that he is peddling is one of division that is deeply unhealthy. Joe Swinson, extreme arrogance. I would argue that extreme arrogance

was probably telling the British public that you were going to become prime minister when you couldn't even win your own seat, rather than talking about the appalling deaths of young British girls as an Ariana Grande concert. But as if that wasn't bad enough, guess who else they chose to respond to Douglas Murray? Someone who is always on GB News now, although I would never give this guy a seat on my GB News show. Hell no, was he going to be in the same studio as me. One of the most toxic forces in this country, but also one of the most irrelevant men too, Matthew Stadlin. Douglas Murray is a man who has said of Hamza Yousaf, who was the first minister of Scotland, that he had infiltrated the British political system. Hamza Yousaf is someone who was born in Britain,

born in Scotland. This man is an extremist, in my view, and the Overton window, which we talked about earlier, has shifted so significantly, and I don't criticise Newsnight for doing it, that he has been given an eight-minute interview on prime BBC television. And that is concerning, because more and more people, it seems to me,

share his repulsive views. Imagine, just for a moment, Nick, being one of the millions of British Muslims, law-abiding British Muslims, watching him say those things. We did question him. Now, let's take a... I mean, the only extremist on that show is Matthew Stadlin for suggesting that Douglas Murray is an extremist. Stephen Edgington posted on this.

BBC Newsnight had Douglas Murray on, then interviewed three panellists all opposed to Murray. And one of the guests complained of BBC bias in favour of extremists like Douglas because they had the temerity to interview him. What a joke the license fee is. Conor Tomlinson, your reaction? Yeah, Douglas is a friend and an intellectual hero and I encourage everyone to read his new book because some of the first-hand accounts he provides from the war in Israel are absolutely chilling. First on Jo Swinson, I mean, this is a woman who couldn't tell the difference between a man and a woman on LBC. So morally speaking, I don't think she can tell the difference between her bum and her belt buckle. So I don't really trust her opinion on anything, frankly. As far as saying

there's no law of contradiction between being appalled at the murders and rapes on October the 7th and the death of children in Gaza. Well, 75% of British Muslims disagree with you, according to Henry Jacks' Society polling, because they don't believe that Hamas did anything wrong. 75%. That's not 1%. It's not 0.1%. It's not sliver of fringe extremists. That's the overwhelming majority of British Muslims. And that is mainly concentrated, by the way, among second generation, university educated Muslim men aged 18 to 24. Now, that means one, integration isn't working. And two, that problem is only going to get worse, because because last year the most popular baby name in the country was Muhammad obviously they're not very creative at names but you get my point it's going to have a demographic then democratic momentum

and so these people are supporting a terror group who sure you don't need to be Jewish I have no more connection to Israel than I do Iceland frankly but a terror group that blames Britain for the creation of the state of Israel and therefore affords us the exact same collective guilt that they do to the Jews. By the way, if you read the Quran and an Islamist is just, you know, a Muslim who takes the Quran a bit too seriously, if you try and draw the distinction, you end up in the weird territory of asking, was the Prophet Muhammad an Islamist? Obviously. If you read the Quran and the subsequent Hadiths, it says that on judgment day, the rocks and trees will come alive with the spirit of Allah and shout where a Jew is hiding behind them so that you can come and kill them. And that was cited in Hamas's charter. So if you're wondering why it constantly rockets its neighbours, there

might be a reason for you. As well, if I may, in Douglas's book, he outlines this very well, so he can tell the story a lot better than I can. But lots of the buildings that are levelled in Gaza at the moment are not just because of indiscriminate airstrikes by Israelis, but because Hamas have embedded themselves in hospitals, schools and even hidden under grandmothers in wheelchairs to use them as human shields to shoot at the IDF. And the IDF have been using disarming technology to remote detonate weapons caches and booby traps, and it turns out that every second or third house is full of these kinds of booby traps. They're stationing RPGs under children's cribs, so in order to go in and extract hostages, they have to detonate the bombs beforehand, and it just turns out pretty much every house on the block blows up, because that's these kinds of absolute savages. In terms of Matthew Stadlin,

I mean, it's hilarious that he feels credible to call himself an extremist because one if offcom wasn't mandating midwits like him be brought on he wouldn't be able to earn a living but stadlin's views that you know cultural differences are entirely arbitrary that we can have people from other countries in completely incompatible worldviews to live side by side and live out john lennon's imagine and of course a man can become a woman it's's such a sliver, a blip in history that hundreds of billions of people that have lived before and after him

will see him as an absolute fruitcake. So the idea that he is an arbiter of what is and isn't extreme, laughable. And so I don't know whether or not Stadlin will just say any old lie to ensure that he keeps his TV spot and his proximity to power, or if he genuinely believes it.

But the net effect is the same. He's delusional and dangerous. He is actually Father Phil. I mean, anyone who is going to appear on the British Bashing Corporation and say that Douglas Murray is an extremist. Plus, didn't you find it so shocking, Phil, that neither Joe Swinson nor Matthew Stadlin gave a damn about the issues that Douglas Murray was talking about, which was Islamists coming into our country and literally blowing up our children.

They don't give a damn about that issue. Of course they don't. And there's a reason why they don't it's part of and they're part of the narrative they're part of um the the situation we've ended you know got ourselves into as a nation there's no way out of it other than dig down from their point of view they've promoted this i mean i think it was 2019 douglas murray, The Madness of the Crowds. And he so what we're talking six years, he actually predicted what was going to go on in this country. And he's been absolutely right. He could see now, you know, I was a strange death of Europe as well. Totally strange. What was ahead? Absolutely right.

Now, for me, and as you know, Dan, I have connections with Israel. I'm a trustee of holy sites in Israel. My godson is actually an IDF soldier and has fought in Gaza and fought in Lebanon. And the you know, what Conor has just described is not hearsay. It is absolute reality. And I get so fed up of of a narrative that is being peddled. Islam means submission. And, you know, I don't think we've had a discussion, but I was actually on BBC's Beyond Belief on the Radio 4 show this week. And I had exactly the same conversations as Douglas had, you know, in terms of the woke guests that were on who are absolutely denying that there's anything wrong with Islam. Now, I have no problem with my Muslim neighbours and I keep saying that. The reality is that we have a massive problem with Islam because it is about submission. It is about death to Jews. It is about death to Christians. You know, we have 60,000 Christians in Nigeria now that have been killed over

numerous years. We have people in this country and it's like, you know, three out of four people, I think a statistic that I read recently of Muslims in this country support Hamas and support and support Gaza and what what has happened to the Jewish people. We are in massive trouble, massive, massive trouble, because unless we get a grip of this, I don't think that we are going to see, you know, 10, 15 years out unless we get a grip because we have radicals in our midst and it's utterly frightening it's concerning um and you know the whole of society seem to have been captured by these these. Sorry, we've just lost Father Phil. We will try and get him back. In the meantime, Connor, I want to show you what happened when Douglas Murray went on talk for a much more sound interview with Mike Graham. Now we've got a South London law firm calling themselves a human rights representation,

acting for Hamas, they say, which surely I would have thought must be illegal, and trying to get their prescribed status changed by the government. Yes. Mike, deport, deport, deport. We have no place in this country for people who want to worship death and bring death and celebrate death.

We have no place for them. Deport, deport, deport. Get them out. A very simple message. It's interesting, isn't it? Do you buy into this idea that it's considered much more palatable when Douglas Murray says this stuff because of his beautiful, posh voice? Well, I think make that man Home Secretary, even though he probably wouldn't take up the job. I can't wait for the days in the Lord's, let's put it that way, some services to this country. I think actually a lot of it's not just because he's very eloquent and he has a plummy accent, but because if you notice, the first person to make mass deportations a real issue was Douglas in the immediate aftermath of October the 7th in his trigonometry interview, garnered millions of views within the week. And it's because he said, for those who ripped down the posters of Michigan Jewish children, I want them them gone i want them kicked out of my country i want them deported and the open door for the conversation the necessary conversation about islam in this country the lack of assimilation the contempt that many ethnic

enclaves ethnic religious enclaves have in this country for the host population that door was opened as were many people's eyes after after October the 7th, because it wasn't the most, the most alarming part about October 7th wasn't just the massacres which were horrific enough, it's that the night the massacres were still happening, the pro-Palestinian groups were planning and had put their permission requests into the Met Police, their marches, to begin celebrating it and criticizing israel and all of its allies response to the massacre before it had even occurred and so this made people realize it made plenty of liberal jews i've spoken to them realize oh my god we're sharing a country

with these people that would have them have my my family abused set ablaze and and laugh about it and film it and post it on facebook what the hell is is going on here? As far as Joe Swinson and the like just saying, oh, it's just, and the BBC, it's just a problem with a minority of fringe radicals. You know, the Abedi family do not represent the majority of Muslims in this country. By the way, the Abedi family, the British taxpayer paid for that nail bomb

that killed those 22 girls because the Abedi family were using their housing benefits and the Abedi son was using his student loan at the time. And the Abedi family moved back to Libya a month before the attack and refused to comply with the subsequent inquiry which is very curious but as far as the idea that Islamic extremism isn't that much of a problem let me read off some stats for you. Islamists are responsible for 94% of all deaths and 88% of all injuries caused in terror attacks since 1999. They're 80% of counter-terror police and 75% of MI5's open caseload and 63% of terrorists in custody. That's despite the official statistics,

according to the 2021 census, a little bit out of date, of them being only 6.5% of the population. They're 18% of the prison population on the whole. So if you were to tell me that, you know, a very slim minority of the country was responsible for over 75 to 80 percent of all terrorists, I might think there might be a problem in that community. And I might think the fact that the community themselves haven't come out on the streets any time that one of the members of their community have blown up girls at a pop concert, do care about the ummer who are being blown up because they've housed terrorists in their own homes and hospitals after they've murdered and raped thousands of people all over the world, if they're prepared to come out on the streets for that,

but not for the victims of the rape gangs, not for the victims of Manchester Arena, not for the victims of various terror attacks at London Bridge and Westminster Bridge, I think we have a problem with that community. And I think that problem, as Douglas has suggested, should be sorted out. It's a very important day on the christian calendar it is a solemn day

good friday and it's a day that we always used to look to the head of the church of england the late queen elizabeth ii and how we wish for her presence at the moment. King Charles, who had already sparked huge criticism and concern about seeming to care more about the Islamic faith than Christianity, has just ratcheted up those concerns to a whole new level with his Easter statement, where he wrote, the love he showed when he walked the earth reflected the Jewish ethic of caring for the stranger and those in need, a deep human instinct echoed in Islam and other religious traditions and in the hearts of all who seek the good of others. As our very own Father Calvin Robinson posted on X, King Charles III even managed to make his Easter message about Islam. The man is a disgrace and needs to abdicate or be deposed. Podcaster Liam Tufts wrote,

why is Charles praising Islam in his Easter message? Did he praise Christians during Eid? Notice I referred to him as Charles, not King. Calvin McKenzie wrote, was puzzled by King Charles saying that caring for the stranger was a deep human instinct echoed in Islam. Really? I suspect the families of those 22 killed and 1000 injured at the Manchester Arena, all strangers to the Islamist Abidi brothers wouldn't share that view. And the disciples of Christ posted, King Charles III has released an Easter message which includes an inappropriate reference to Islam. This is outrageous. Charles is neglecting his role as defender of the faith. We will get reaction from Reverend Canon Father Phil Harris and Colonna Tomlinson in just one moment, but I do want to remind you of King Charles's message for Ramadan, when you will note there was absolutely no

reference to Christianity. The Quran says, God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear. We hope that you have a blessed and fulfilling Ramadan. Peace be upon you all. Ramadan Mubarak. As Muslims across the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth observe the beginning of the holiest of months in the Islamic calendar, the month of Ramadan, I just wanted to convey my heartfelt best wishes to you all and to tell you just how much my wife and I are thinking of you at this special time of year. This would have been a joyous time. Mosques would be filling with life, Muslim families would be coming together to share food and prayers, and many of them would be inviting their neighbours and friends,

of all faiths and none, to join them. My wife and I can only offer you all our kindest and most special wishes and stress just how greatly the contribution of Muslims to the life of the United Kingdom is appreciated and valued, embodying the Ramadan spirit of charity and selflessness. As the Quran says, God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear. We hope that you have a blessed and fulfilling Ramadan. Father Phil, you know I'm a monarchist, you know I'm a royalist, but I cannot tell you the number of people who have contacted me over the past few weeks from all around the world to say, what is going on with Charles? Does he want to convert?

Why is he obsessed with Islam? Is he turning on the Christian faith? What is happening? And I really struggled to see if he was trying to dampen down that criticism, why he would mention Islam specifically in his Easter message. This is an utter shocker, Dan. Like, I'm just utterly astounded. So for me, there are several options. of this, this agenda where we have to applaud Islam because we are, Islam is so deeply rooted in the nation and there is a globalist agenda to allow seemingly more of Islamic influence in the nation. Either he's part of that or there are bishops, senior bishops, who are not advising him properly. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. That leaves no room for any other religion. It leaves no room for the Supreme Governor of the Church of England to actually advocate for any other religion.

I am the way, the truth and the life. And the problem that is created here is that if if Islam is correct, then Jesus is a false prophet because Islam believes that Jesus is a prophet. Now, if Jesus is a false prophet, the king can have the king needs to convert. But we know obviously that Jesus isn't a false prophet. He is the king of kings. He is the Lord of Lords and he is the way, the truth and the life. And if that's the case, the king can have nothing to do with Ramadan, with promoting Islam. You know, we just can't go there. So it's these one of these two points that concern me either theologically, he's not getting the right advice from his bishops. One, two, he's part of this initiative to see Islam running amok in this nation.

And to bring Islam into the Easter message is just deeply, deeply wrong. You know, it's not. Islam does not worship the same god just doesn't there are so many differences and to actually try and associate islam with easter on you know on maundy thursday is just horrendous and i i will go even further um and i made this point to a church of england cleric the other day how can we there are two decision-making bodies in this, the Houses of Parliament and the Synod of the Church of England. How can we as a Christian country allow Ramadan lights in our capital? Last year, it was in the Holy Easter season. And how can we be applauding that religion when it sets its face against the Christian values and the Christian message of Jesus being the son of the living God who came selflessly and gave

himself a ransom for everybody? How can we arrive in that position? We just can't. And so I'm deeply worried at which one of the two points it is. Where this can end up is King Charles loses the monarchy. And that's a really fearful situation that we are in. But we cannot have the Supreme Governor of the Church of England actually advocating in any shape or form Islam and bringing that into the Easter message or Maundy Thursday message. And it's worth noting that this is, you know, whilst the king has shown, you know, that he's he is keen on interfaith dialogue. What he has never done before is issued an Easter message which contained anything like this. So we're on a really deep trajectory, a steep trajectory.

And it's very, very worrying. And bear in mind that when he was coronated, he was coronated as defender of the faith. Now, that was contrary to what he wanted. But nevertheless, he is defender of the faith. And this Easter, he has failed to defend the faith. As a Catholic Connor Tomlinson how do you feel about this? Well I'd love some interfaith dialogue I'm sure but according to verses in the Quran like and if you don't mind I'll just mention this Surah At-Tawbah verses 9 107 to 111 that says that the best thing to do is to cut out hearts of

hypocrites and non-believers to fight in allah's cause and slay and be slain and that's the achievement supreme i don't think i'm going to get much of a way in conversation there it doesn't sound awfully like the concluding verse in the gospel of matthew where christ said go forth and be of ministers to all nations not much of a verse about cutting hearts out in the Bible, is it? Also, I did find it strange that the idea that it's a Jewish value to take in the stranger was included in there as well, because this is not to be disparaging to my Jewish friends, but I don't think the Canaanites got much welcome as strangers. You know, the Jews spent a hell of a long time defending their own land being cast out and having to reclaim it again so admitting strangers as we

see now is probably of great risk to the survival of the Jews and I would say it's probably of great risk to the survival of Christian Europe as well if Muslim immigration is anything to go by but then the idea as well that Christianity and Islam has much in common well Islam believes itself to be the final revelation of God, hence the need for submission. And it denies that Christ was both incarnate or died and resurrected. They say that somehow he was smuggled off the crucifix, which was an unprecedented instrument of torture,

and managed to recover somehow and appear miraculously like a magic trick out of the cave and just fool everyone. And then in Judgment Day, he himself aligns with Allah. It seems almost like a persuasion tactic rather the cave and just fool everyone and then in judgment day he himself aligns with allah it seems almost like a persuasion tactic rather than a severe belief in christ and also the idea that there's much interfaith dialogue between muslims and jews as i've already mentioned judgment day in the hadith says that the rocks and trees will come alive to tell muslims to kill jews um it also it's funny when muhammad went from mecca to medina there was already a settled jewish population

there and he said hey guys i'm the next in the long line of prophets from moses and they said well no thank you very much you know but the tribes of israel which are mentioned in the quran unlike palestine which doesn't get mentioned the quran fully enough and they said we'll stick to our own religion thank you very much and that's when he decided to put them to the sword when he also came to medina as well muhammad reinstituted the stoning penalty for adultery of course christ told um jewish authorities at the time not to stone a woman who committed adultery in case they haven't themselves committed sins it's funny though you won't find that in the quran because there isn't a verse justifying it so what a bunch of muslim elders after muhammad's

death did is they got together and went well why, why is that verse not in the Quran? Ah, I know, a goat ate it. Yeah, that's a religion that I'm going to respect after all. I think King Charles should wind his neck in and stick to defending the ailing Anglican church, which are already being outnumbered two to one by young Catholics in terms of conversion at this rate, and just talk about Christianity rather than any other faith which was, you know, doesn't align with it

or would seek to actively do it harm. Father Phil, don't we have a big issue, though, because we're talking about Charles here. And, you know, I'm also a huge supporter of Prince William and Catherine, the Princess of Wales. However, the issue you've got is the heir to the throne is actually even less interested in faith than his father. They're going to be skipping the easter service this weekend i should clarify though just in fairness that even though william and katherine have been attacked over this when charles was the prince of wales he would spend easter in scotland and queen elizabeth ii and prince and Prince Philip would attend the Easter service.

So it's not like there's always been the same sort of tradition as there is at Christmas for the entire royal family to come together. Although it does seem to suggest in some way that religion, being a defender of the faith, is certainly not a priority for William either. This is deeply concerning to me. The monarch is the supreme governor of the Church of England. And if we go back to Prince Philip, who had a profound faith, who would always question the preachers that he sat under, that he worked through what faith looked like for him. We don't see that with with really with Charles in the same, certainly not in the same context. We definitely don't see that, as you've alluded to, with with William. And the question, therefore, is we have a Church of England that

is in decline. And Conor has quite correctly pointed out that the Catholic faith is growing at twice the rate of the Anglican faith in this country, may I add. And so it actually says there's something deeply wrong with the Church of England in this nation. And so what happens next? Where does this go? Who is going to stand up for Christianity in the nation? And that takes us back to the narrative where we started at the top of the show, that we seem to be heading towards an Islamist nation. We see a king that seems to be more interested in that and we have we're having very few clerics that are standing up for the truth of Jesus Christ and the truth of the Christian message in this land and I'm very concerned about the monarchy and as you know along with Father

Calvin every Sunday evening with three other fathers as well, we pray for the nation from the Book of Common Prayer. And we do that every single Sunday. We pray for his majesty. His majesty and the monarchy needs to realise their Christian heritage. And what would our beloved queen be saying right now is a very pertinent question to ask. We are in deep, deep trouble. And Connor is quite correct in in talking around the interfaith dialogue where we're at complete odds. Whatever we are, people seek to tell us and academics and so-called theologians try to tell us around um you know dialogue with islam let me be very clear there is a game that's danced around you're invited to their mosque because they want to convert you um it's not about um about them wanting to actually have interfaith dialogue

they actually want to see uh people converted to islam and they are playing that game and they're playing that game very, very, very well. And we have a defender of the faith that is not defending the faith. What do we do? How? You know, we need clerics who will stand up and declare the truth of Jesus Christ. The problem is, if you do that, you get cancelled. And do I know that? Yeah, you actually do get cancelled if you stand up. What is going to happen? I don't know, but I know what I'm going to continue to do. I'm going to continue to preach the Catholic faith of Jesus Christ, the one who came and died on Good Friday 2000 years ago for the sins of the world, that we could have a hope and a future that anybody who believes in him, believes in their

heart and confesses with their mouth can know the saving grace of Jesus. That's the Catholic faith. And we need people who are prepared to declare that, not declare the wonders of Islam or any other religion. If we actually recognise that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And my question is, does the monarch, does his majesty as the defender of the faith really own that? And I am concerned about William. I really am concerned about William. And, you know, we want to see something from him that actually says, yes, I am a Christian. This is my faith. I believe in Jesus Christ and he is my saviour and my Lord. Very fascinating discussion. Thank you so much, phil and connor tomlinson do stand by though because big controversy over a whole load more money being given into the

investigation into the disappearance of madeline mccann this opinion. I'll tell you the latest in just one minute, so don't go anywhere. But first, the reason you're watching this show is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to trust mainstream media or the so-called fact checkers who claim to determine which facts are true. And for good reason, given the ongoing debates over free speech, controversies surrounding Brexit and how Trump and other anti-establishment politicians are portrayed. But I have the solution. It's called Ground News and it's the best way to stay informed and cut through media bias and manipulative narratives so you can get the facts for yourself. It's been a game changer for a news junkie like me and you can see it for yourself at ground.news.com. But I want to show you this incredible website and app. The app is

amazing actually in action. So let's look at that recent landmark decision this week by the UK Supreme Court that ruled women can only be biological adult human females, reversing years of trans extremism. You can see clearly in one place that over 350 sources around the world are covering this story but ground news then instantly shows how the story is being covered by the media broken down by whether the organizations lean left or right it's called the bias distribution chart and i love it if you scroll down you can see every headline about the story along with the political bias and ownership of the publication so we can see quite clearly for ourselves that on the right, The Daily Wire covered the case very accurately with the headline, UK Supreme Court Rules Trans-Identifying Men Are Not Women.

Spiked Online was even more forthright, declaring, women exist, get over it. And The Daily Telegraph looked in depth at the disgraced famous faces who declared trans women are women. By stark contrast, the left-wing National said the result was only a victory for gender-critical feminists. And the Canary ran with the clearly ludicrous headline, Victory for the far right, as Supreme Court rolls back trans women's rights by two decades. Far right, try calling JK Rowling that to her face, the canary. My favorite feature, though, is Ground News' Blind Spot feed, which services upwards of 20 stories daily that receive the majority of coverage from one side of the political

spectrum. If you love the news like I do, the Blind Spot feed is the best way to get a balanced perspective on what's happening. So go to ground.news.com or scan the QR code on screen if you're watching on YouTube or Rumble to subscribe today. You can get 40% off the same VARTAGE plan that I use for unlimited access with the code OUTSPOKEN. So that's ground.news slash OUTSPOKEN. But now, back to the show. Breaking right now, there is growing outrage that detectives searching for Madeleine McCann have been given a further grant of £108,000 to continue their investigation. Now, Scotland Yard has received more than £13 million since the little girl, Madeline, went missing 18 years ago as a three-year-old in May 2007, when her family were holidaying in Praia de Luz in Portugal. Operation Grange is the unit tasked with hunting for her and for the new financial year its budget has just been increased by £8,000. Now a Home Office spokesperson said the ongoing police investigation into the disappearance of Madeline McCann known as

Operation Grange is an operational matter for the Metropolitan Police Service. Ministers have approved a request to provide up to £108,000 for Operation Grange in 2025 to 2026. In line with our special grant processes, funding for Operation Grange is approved on an annual basis. To my superstar panel now, Connor Tomlinson, host of the Deprogram podcast on the New Culture Forum and a contributor to Courage Media, and Reverend Canon Father Phil Harris. Now, Father Phil, the McCann debate, the Maddie debate is always going to divide the country, right? There are people who feel desperately sorry for Kate and Jerry McCann and believe that they are serving a life sentence and that they deserve to raise all of this extra money to try and find out what happened

to their daughter. Of course, Christian Bruckner is awaiting trial in Germany and there's a lot of consternation and question marks about whether he might have been the man who abducted Madeline. On the other hand, Father Phil, you have a whole load of people who say, hang on a moment. My relative went missing and we got none of this. We got none of this funding. We got none of this publicity. And there are the group of people who say that the McCann's don't deserve this because they were the ones that chose to leave their children in a room on their own while they went for dinner at a tapas restaurant so where do you stand on the ongoing maddie debate

and whether they should just receive another 108 000 pounds which let's be honest is of our money to continue this investigation? So as a priest, my heart goes out to the McCann family. I actually was in Portugal at around that time. And so it was very kind of pertinent. I think it was 2007, if I remember correctly. And so you want to do everything you can for a hurting family um and one of the things i will never do is blame people so you know that's you know the mccann's at a

tapas restaurant you hindsight is always 20 20 vision is it not and um you know if only we had foresight and insight in more instances we can't blame i think it's really cruel to blame the mccann's what they've been through is is utterly horrendous um and you want to do everything that you can for them but there's there has to be a but we know statistically that children um 79 of children are that go missing are found within 24 hours. And 90% are found within two days. And less than 2% of children are missing longer than a week. So those are some statistics that are actual factual statistics. We have Madeline who's been missing all of this length of time.

And we have other parents who have lost their children that don't have the resource that we have here um at what point do we say you know given the age that Madeline would be now if Madeline was you know was found, what does that look like? Secondly, what are we trying to achieve now? Now, we want to bring comfort and peace to the McCanns, but at what point is £100,000 of taxpayers' money that's been going on every single year, at what point do we actually say no and it's a really ethically difficult question to answer and i you know we pray for the mccann's you know it's horrendous but it's also a hundred thousand pounds per annum that is you know what are the outcomes and if we said well there's8,000 and that's going

to actually give us some answer and some closure, I don't think there are too many people that would say, well, let's do that. But there has to be a point where the money can't continually keep being found given the length of time um so and my other question is how focused is this um you know this process of trying to find um madeline what does that really look like so on one hand as a priest i'm incredibly compassionate uh want, you know, the McCann's to have closure. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we if we found Maddie? However, surely there has to be a point where we can't keep throwing money, given the length of time. It's a really tough one. I hope I've shown some compassion there. I find this incredibly difficult to actually deal with. But we have to be good

stewards. It's a really difficult one. I find it very difficult, Dan. Connor Thomason, can I ask you almost to take the emotion out of it? Because isn't the point that policing is meant to not be two tier? Now, we know that's a joke. We have seen over the past year, especially that policing in the UK is very often dictated by media priorities, for example. But if you take the emotion out of it, is it right that one missing person gets a whole load of money pumped in when a huge number of other missing persons do not. I find it very difficult, much like Reverend Phil,

to remove the emotion from it. Because this has been going on for almost my entire living memory. I was about eight when this happened. I was probably on on holiday with my own family around the same time and so I can only imagine how my parents must have been petrified about this and as far as the McCann parents go um we we we may suggest of course that you know leaving your your toddler children in a room on their own is not sensible but given the fact that

they have been tortured for a lifetime by their daughter's disappearance and then now you've got people being charged with stalking them i've read this recently someone called karen sprague and this is the polish national girl who is claiming to be mccann but seems to just be off her rocker and isn't leaving the family alone and that's because of all the attention the media has brought to it so i think i think show compassion for the family and they have been tortured and put through enough. But I think it's fair to raise the discrepancy between the resources that have been dedicated to this case when German prosecutors themselves have said they think, unfortunately, Maddy is likely dead. And the Bruckner trial, he's still on appeal, but it looks like that lead's probably gone cold

because he hasn't actually been charged with anything in relation to McCann just some sex offences in the area at the time which it doesn't seem there's been enough evidence to actually prosecute him for yet I'm not sure what else they're using the money to look for I mean this comes up to the limit of my

knowledge here right I don't know if they've got some brand new innovation and investigative but that's the issue isn't it we're not told you know we so so this money is pumped in we're told it's for operational purposes it's been millions and millions of pounds but we're never given updates and i do think this is maybe one of the issues there is no transparency in terms of when it comes to what our money is used for in policing. Now, of course, you can't compromise investigations. I understand this, but I think there could be some more transparency when it came to this case in particular.

What are you doing? Where's the money? What's the money being used for? How many people are on this case? I think as well, people like yourself, yourself dan wouldn't be raising any questions if other similar crimes were investigated we've been speaking repeatedly about how the pakistani rape gangs have been covered up that's been thousands of girls of maddie's age slightly older who have been abused violated tortured even murdered in many cases at least five girls plus their family members and neither the media nor the police nor the politicians have paid it comparable attention as they did to mccann's case which of course understandably pulls on the heartstrings but all of those girls should pull on the heartstrings too and they do for the broader public who want a national inquiry but it's a great example isn't it though, though, Connor, because Rupert Lowe has just had to crowdfund £600,000 from the public for the rape gang inquiry to be held.

There's no money from the police or the government going into that. And I think it's completely parallel, Father Phil, to say the rape gang scandal was just ignored, completely ignored. Well, you know, Dan, this is one of my, you know, one of my hot topics. I am, you know, when it comes to the rape gangs that have gone on for 20 years and Rupert's just had to go and crowdfund. And a sixth of that is being given to an inquiry that's 18 years old or I think it's 18 years old now that that just doesn't make any sense at all we we need justice we always need justice the kingdom of God is righteousness peace and join the Holy Spirit and I keep saying this unless we righteousness, we don't have peace.

And so when it comes to the rape gangs and 600,000 being raised, and there's no money for an inquiry, or purportedly no money for an inquiry, and yet we're finding 108,000 pounds to continue this investigation, that seems to be very, very, very cold. And you're quite right about the transparency. If someone had told us something or someone said, look, we just need another six months or a year, you know, because we actually are close, then that's fine. But this just seems to be money that could be spent wisely elsewhere. And it is taxpayers money. And so I'm deeply concerned about the the rape gangs we have to address that situation that has there has to be a national inquiry there needs to be accountability in our nation um and we won't as a nation move forward until we actually have that and so um six hundred thousand that rupers had to crowdfund 108 000000 just given. It's a problem to me.

It genuinely is a problem to me, Dan. Yeah, well, I think that's a very fair, reasonable and compassionate discussion of what is a difficult topic. Thank you so much. Stand by, Father Phil. But I will thank you, Connor Tomlinson, who is, of course, host of the D Programme podcast on the New Culture Forum and a contributor to Courage Media. But just before we go, Father Phil, the last time that you were here, we were obviously speaking about your horrendous cancellation.

And it's obviously a really important day for you in the Christian calendar, Good Friday. And you've got a big announcement about hopefully your uncancellation, because, you know, I'm all about uncancelling people here on Outspoken. So what is the update? So, Dan, thank you very much for the opportunity here. And can we call this uncancelled too? I think it would be kind of quite kind of quite oh i think i think father phil the reality is we're all going to be uncancelled multiple times in our lives these days that that's the issue with speaking the truth right absolutely and i'm really grateful um you know i broke um my cancellation uh on your show and i

was grateful for you allowing me to do that. In fact, soon as you found out you wanted me on your show. So we have been meeting St. Jude and St. James as it now is. St. Jude is the patron saint of hope and St. James of pilgrims. And so our church community is now St. Jude and St. James. And we've been meeting, and so our church community is now St Jude and St James and we've been meeting having lost our church building in my cancellation we've been meeting in the and there's a great picture of us our community meeting in Cradley Heath Sports and Social Club who have been incredibly welcoming to us we had Maundy Thursday there, a service of Tenebrae the Shadows last night. We've just celebrated Mass there this morning and we'll be celebrating

Easter morning Mass on 10.30 Sunday morning as well. However, we need a church building and we really need a church building. and a church building just up the road from where we are has become available and we need to actually purchase that building. So we are going to have a fundraiser and a number of people have helped with this and we need to raise 260,000 to give my community a place to to worship. This is not for me. This is for the community. And we we have bishops who are supporting this standing right behind us, where we actually genuinely can have a church in the West Midlands, in the in the heart of the black country that stands up for truth, that stands up for the Christian message that is not compromised by cancellations.

And there we have on the screen a picture of the worship space, beautiful stained glass window that you can see there of Christ coming to the disciples, walking on the water, saying, be not afraid, be of good courage. It is I. And so we need to raise 260, thousand for the procurement of this building. But it's not just about our community. We need to save a building because this church is now empty and we know what's going to happen. It's going to be lost to christendom unless we purchase it and so um we're asking for people to contribute 260 000 pounds that will allow us to purchase the building renovate it to a standard that is uh suitable for worship um and we just love as many outspoken

supporters who could get behind us uh to get the required funds to actually purchase this building, give us a space where we can worship the living God, we can declare truth and righteousness to the nation without fear and favour, with the support of good bishops and without the threat of being cancelled. We're calling it uncancelled too uncancelled too i love it and the way by the way that you can find out more about this is by going to democracy3.org and you'll see there save a church building so democracy 3.0 that is the crowdfunding platform and dan i'm sure we can get that that link in in the in the description of this channel, can't we as well?

So thank you so much for that. And please do support us. In real terms, it's not a lot of money, but it's it's a it's so much to to us. And for me to be able and Deacon Aaron, of course, to continue to serve a community that really just wants to keep speaking truth. Reverend Cannon, Father Phil Harris, I'm so grateful for you making the time for us on what is obviously a very solemn day. Good Friday. Thank you so much. Dan, would it be possible before I go to actually just because it is Good Friday to actually pray? Would that be OK? Yes. Would that be OK? Yes. Would that be OK? So the Lord be with you. Let us pray.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, we pray you to set your passion cross and death between your judgment and our souls. Now and in the hour of our death. Give mercy and grace to the living, peace and rest to the dead, to your holy church, unity and concord and to sinners everlasting life and glory. For with the Father and the Holy Spirit, you live and reign one God now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much Father Phil Thank you Okay We have the Uncancelled After Show coming up

of course with Angela Levin Prince William has just proposed to the man who made a series of bullying accusations against Meghan Markle

in an escalation of the war between the Waleses and the Sussexes Our Royal Mastermind Angela Levin is standing by on that, www.outspoken.live. But before we go, I am going to reveal the worst Britain in the world this week.

So what we do is we take our Union jackasses, as chosen by you from across the week, and put them head-to-head in a mega poll. So on Monday, we had Ed Miliband. On Tuesday, we had Karen Bradley. On Wednesday, we had Dr. Scholler. And on Thursday, yesterday, we had Jess Phillips. And the results are in.

In fourth position with 2% of the vote, Karen Bradley. In third position with 21% of the vote, Dr. Scholler. The runner-up with 31% of the vote, Karen Bradley. In third position, with 21% of the vote, Dr. Scholler. The runner-up, with 31% of the vote, Ed Miliband. But the worst Briton in the world this week, with 47% of the vote, Jess Phillips. Let's go 1150. Posted on this, Jess Phillips showed her true colours. Sat there and listened to victims to then turn a blind eye, absolutely no words. Danny HP9FX wrote, all disgraceful, but the denial of child abuse by a certain demographic for the sake of keeping your job is beyond the pale. Having stupid policies is one thing, but Philip's behavior is disgusting. And MKKRayavist 11 wrote, it's Philip's every week,

no matter who you put up, she's just a disgrace beyond words. So very, very strong feelings from you on that. I hope you have a very blessed Good Friday and then a wonderful Easter weekend. Spend time with your family, of course, if you can. But don't worry, we are back on Monday, Easter Monday, as usual, with June Slater and Alani Dowding on the Superstar Panel, 5 p.m. UK time, midday Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific. Most importantly, remember, I promise to keep fighting for you.