Dan Wootton Outspoken - REAL REASON GB NEWS HAS MOVED TO THE LEFT AFTER BEING CAPTURED BY ESTABLISHMENT & BILLIONAIRES

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

In this special edition of Outspoken, Dan reveals the truth about the launch of GB News and why his departure really happened, plus the American big names, including Megyn Kelly, Dave Rubin and Dan Bongino, who privately helped the launch of this Outspoken platform. He is in conversation with Dr Philip Kiszely of the New Culture Forum on stage at their literary festival in London. PLUS: reveals for the first time how The Sun and Rupert Murdoch’s empire tried to censor his critical coverage of Covid, lockdowns and Boris Johnson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooten. This is a special edition of Outspoken, where I'm in the hot seat to answer the questions. This is not a usual experience for me, but I loved this, actually, and I really wanted to share it with you when I'm not broadcasting live today. So let me tell you what happened. Very good friend of mine, good friend of the show, Peter Whittle, of the brilliant new cultural forum, asked me to answer questions on stage from Dr. Philip Cazelli, the cultural historian, academic. author and political commentator, a man who I have great respect for at his organisation's first ever literary festival in central London. Now, you may well know, Philip from his appearances here and outspoken, he is such a switched on man acutely aware of the challenges facing our disunited kingdom and also the stark limitations of the mainstream media. So in this interview, I discussed for the first time how the son and Rupert Murdoch's empire tried to censor my critical coverage of COVID lockdowns and Boris Johnson, the truth about the launch of GB News and why my departure really happened and how the big American names, including Megan Kelly, Dave

Rubin, and Dan Bongino privately helped the launch of this outspoken platform. So I'm very excited to share this interview with you today. Because we're not live, there will be no uncanncled after show today, but I would still recommend and love you to join our Substat community. www.outspoken. Live is the address. You can register completely for free. Join the Outspoken Revolution. Substack is a free speech platform. It protects me from big tech cancellation. It protects me from law fair. You can communicate with me directly on that platform and I would love you to be part of it. But for now, this is unusual for me. It is time to hand over the hot seat. The man asking the questions today is Dr. Philip Casale of the New Culture Forum. Let's go.

Dan Wooten is a gloriously liberating voice in the new independent media. He first came to prominence in about 2007 when he joined the news of the world. But I suppose he probably cut his teeth with the sun where he progressed to executive editor. The man has one hell of an instinct for a story. He's worked for ITV, mail online and talk radio. He presented his own show on GB News where somebody, else landed him in trouble consequently he parted company with the channel

this was the absolute making of him why because he started Dan Wooten outspoken he wins so many awards it's hard to keep count and my god he's really lived it's been an absolute rollercoaster they told lies about him they tried to cancel him he fought back with the truth and one hands down.

He's an absolute bloody hero. Please welcome, Dan Wooten. Thank you so much. Thank you, Philip. Right, this is pretty weird because every time we ever have a conversation, it's Dan Witten introducing me, but we're doing it the other way around.

It's weird for me to be interviewed, too. Thank you so much. Can we start? with outspoken. Yes. So tell me how that emerged and why you think it's important. Yeah, so it emerged from the ashes of my cancellation,

and being cancelled is a really shocking thing. I remember Jordan Peterson over that whole period interviewed Lawrence Fox, and he said the only thing worse than being cancelled is receiving a terminal illness diagnosis. there is definitely something to that and I know you know about that too because you lose so many people overnight and that is obviously hugely shocking but I was also very lucky in terms of the people who stood by me and one of them was Megan Kelly who I'd got to know and become friends with she'd been a regular on my TV news show I'd been a regular on her show and I was

very determined to effectively create a British version version of her show, because I was so impressed with what she had done, so inspired by what she had done. And actually, I think now most people would say that Megan Kelly is more influential outside of Fox News in the independence space. I mean, if you just see her interview with Jake Tapper this week. And we really have nothing like that in the UK. There's a lot of interview shows, trigonometry, what the New Culture Forum does. and I'm oh my a Tuesday you know there are some great people but what there was not was a daily news show completely independent not regulated by the off-communists exactly and I mean we'll just talk a little

bit more about that independent space but this is a question for me right how do you go about producing a three-hour show that is completely independent that is cutting edge that is dealing with the stories as they happen every bloody day. Yeah, well, it's bloody hard, and I work very, very, very long hours. But I think what was interesting for me is when I came into this space, I soon realized that if I had been in America, right, it would have been so easy. So in America now, there is a whole ecosystem around the independent media. If you are cancelled, which lots of people have been, you know, there's lots of people that have been sacked from Fox News or one of the big channels, there are companies, and actually Murdox just bought one of the companies, the main one called Red Sea Ventures that produces Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Barry Vicer at the free press.

And literally, overnight, they come in, they sort of sweep you up, they come to your home, they build a studio, they provide the producers, and we had none of that whatsoever. So one of the things that I'm a really big believer in is building up. This isn't just about me. That's what's really critical. The independent space is about individuals, but I want there to be an ecosystem. So obviously I have the New Culture Forum guys on a lot. Connor Tomlinson's just launched his YouTube channel. We've got Calvin and Lawrence now.

There's a whole Alex Phillips is doing great stuff. So one of the things I really want to do, and I think now we're about nine months in and we have started to do it, is see these new and exciting voices emerge. So I'm also really excited about a little duo that I'm creating with Sophie Cicoran and Baste and Bouguji, who's a brilliant young YouTuber, who's actually a Tommy Robinson supporter,

but she goes completely against the grain because she's a young black woman, so she's not who you would expect to be a Tommy Robinson supporter. So essentially what you're saying, and I don't know what the audience thinks about this, but there's been a lot of optimism, actually. You know, we talk about these things. We talk about culture all the time,

and there's so much pessimism, and, you know, we're complaining about things. One of the things we try to do on the New Culture Forum is offer solutions and do things, and I think that's precisely what you do. But you're actually saying, and so many people are saying, there's lots of optimism. Things are changing.

You definitely think that. Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, admit and tell you. It is none. is an inventory and whatsoever and it's actually really written

the casino I mean you just look at this week ITB, I guess the work actually I was to work for 10 years it was very

culturally dominant and actually I loved it because it was the channel oh sorry it was the channel of the working class

and I thought that was an amazing thing but it went woke it's now going broke not just because of that, but also because obviously the technological changes that are happening. And they've just decimated their lineup this week.

And obviously, you could say, well, it's sad, all of these people losing their jobs. I don't view it that way. I think we, the people, are making calls about what we want to watch. Thankfully, YouTube, which is now the most important broadcaster in the world, by none, Banan, has, thanks to Donald Trump, decided to embrace free speech. Because remember, just a couple of years ago, we had this crazy situation where, for example, Dan Bongino, who's now deputy director of the FBI, was not just demonetized from YouTube, was removed, banned from YouTube forever.

Do you know what his crime was? He said, masks didn't work. That's right. That was it. That was it. It wasn't even about vaccines or about election. action denialism or January the 6th, he literally questioned the efficacy of masks and he was given a lifetime ban from YouTube. So don't get me wrong, there are still huge challenges because

I'm operating in this big tech space where it's like, well, is that going to change again? What if they cancel me there? But it was interesting, the people who I spoke to in my sort of forced period off work, which was really hard. There was like police investigation into me, a G.B. News investigation into me. I mean, they threw everything at me to try and finish me off. Can you just tell us a bit about how you felt when that was happening? Well, I mean, obviously, it's genuinely one of the worst things you can possibly go through. And I think what you obviously hope is that, like, I'm a really loyal person, so you hope that people will show you loyalty back. A lot didn't. But as I say, the people who I

was very, very inspired by over that period were people who I all hugely respect, who all stood by me. So Megan, Constantine Kissin, Dan Bongino, Dave Rubin, and they were all saying to me, you can or Douglas Murray, he's another one, you can do this, this will be successful, there isn't this, so they sort of gave me the

strength to go on, as well as my audience, who stayed completely loyal to me throughout, even though I wasn't allowed to say anything. So I think now for me, I'm very excited about what's happened without spoken, but it's about creating something bigger.

It does feel as though there's something of a revolution. It almost feels it's a free speech revolution. It's a conservative revolution. It feels as though things are changing. But I'm always worried about saying that kind of thing. Can we just go back in time a little bit? And can you... You were big in the press.

You worked for the sun, the news of the world. Can you tell us a little bit what it was like in those days? Because it was kind of crazy, wasn't it? Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, I joined the News of the World. after the phone hacking scandal so I gave evidence that Leveson inquiry

luckily I was always able to say hand on heart I never was involved in anything illegal phone hacking anything like that so I was sort of part of the second wave of the tabloid when it was still powerful but it wasn't as powerful as it used to be but I think and I think anyone who watches my shows

know that I'm not an intellectual I'm not an academic, I'm an unashamed populist, I absolutely believe in the people's choice about what is news. And I think where I learned so much from my time at News of the World and the Sun is that there is a way to package news for people where it is still entertaining, it is still enjoyable, that's what's going to get people engaged. and if you just operate on a level above where people actually are and what they're interested and what they care about. So, for example, this week, I have covered the bloodbath at ITV as much as I've covered the Lucy Connolly case, for example, because you can do it all.

You can do it all. You don't have to make these decisions that there's only this narrow view of what news is. And we see that all the time. don't we, from the Westminster establishment. And I think most of those people, most of those journalists, they have no idea how ordinary people think,

what ordinary people are interested in, and they make terrible news judgments as a result. They make terrible news judgments, and they dislike ordinary people as well. So, I'm just trying to think about this. Was there a particular time when things changed? So you had, you know, the son being massively influential, you know, instrumental in getting Margaret Thatcher back into power,

all of those things, but it feels as though, It's a very different thing now. Was there a time when that power changed and the culture changed? I'm thinking about things like Brexit. I'm thinking about things like lockdown. Was there a particular time for you where you thought, hang on, it's different now. We desperately need this independent voice because we're living in a different world.

100%. I mean, I was actually super proud of the sun over Brexit. The sun was incredible over that period. Tony Gallagher was the editor at the time. He's now the editor of The Times, but he was a massive Brexiteer. I think the Sun did a lot to, you know, we know how close it was, right? And the Sun had that famous front page of the red line, and it was a red line that went down from the top to the bottom of the front page, and it was about immigration. And so I was very proud to be at the Sun and to be executive editor of the Sun over Brexit.

where it changed for me was COVID. So it was a bit of a crazy experience because I'd just taken on the drive-time show on Talk Radio, I'd replace Damon Holmes, and I started in February 2020. And obviously, I mean, crazy, crazy. And I remember starting the first few days, I'm like, oh, what's this COVID thing?

Not that interest in that. You know, it's not of much interest to me. Yeah, whatever, we'll keep doing it. We're now, you know, whatever we were doing at the time, debates over Brexit or whatever. But obviously, by March 2020, it was an absolutely dominating story. And for me, I look back, I mean, it was fated, I guess, but I felt so lucky to have that platform. Talk Radio was genuinely brilliant over COVID. So Julie Hartley Brew was doing breakfast.

Mike Graham was doing the 10 a.m. show. I was on drive, there was Ian Collins, James Whale, and on the whole, we were the only mainstream media establishment that was truly anti-lockdown, right? And every single day, I was able to have that conversation for three hours a day. So it was a game-changing moment of my career, but also because I was able to see from inside the mainstream media just how corrupted it was. So at the sun, for example, there was a lot of, oh, you know, Dan, I think we just need to stop these columns about lockdown. You know, we're getting a lot of money. We're getting a lot of money in for these front page wraparounds. Are people really interested in this?

Go easy on Boris Johnson. Come on, come on, you know, we support Boris. We've got to get them through this. So by the end of 2020, I guess if you could use the word radicalise, by that, that point, I was well and truly radicalised, totally disillusioned with the Sun, the Murdoch Empire, the, I mean, I couldn't believe, I mean, look, where we are today, so much of it is because of the terrible decisions that were made in 2020. There's just no question. We live in a different world. 100%. 100%. And for me, it was like there was only one top of conversation, and it was

later that year when, through a chance, very random encounter with Amal Rajan at the BBC, which is very unexpected, who put me in touch with Andrew Neal, who put me in touch with the CEO of GB News, and I was just all in from the start. I was all in. There was no doubt in my mind that we needed a media revolution. And it was because of what, I mean, look, Brexit was bad. Like Brexit was really bad, but I was very content with where I was over Brexit because the Sun and Talk Radio were massively Brexit outlets. We were fighting the establishment over the biggest attempt, well, over the attempt to shut down the biggest democratic decision in British history.

So I had no problems over that period. I was like, no, I'm at the right place. This is great, you know. The Sun and Talk Radio are completely aligned with where I'm at. but that all changed over COVID. And you started at G.B. News and you said that was, you know, amazing for you. It was, again, it was a kind of revolution, wasn't it? It was on television.

How do you think that's gone? Well, I mean, it certainly wasn't amazing for me. Like, honestly, working at G.B. News at the launch of G.B. News, the most stressful thing I've done in my life. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if anyone watched the first night or the first nights of GV News, and it was catastrophic. The thing is, it had been like a train. You know, when you can see that a train is about to crash? It's like, I'd known for weeks, oh my God, we are not even close to being ready to go on air.

I remember, so at my last rehearsal, Constantine Kisson was on the panel, because we were getting in, like, trial panelist, and we literally gave up after, like, 10 minutes, and he said, I knew at that point that this was going to be Cassius. It was nothing to do with us. it was all to do with the technology wasn't really. They just were not ready to launch this channel. But in a weird way, Andrew Neal's departure from the channel was actually a real gift because he was an establishment guy.

I mean, I know everyone today is loving Andrew Neal because he's written this column and the mail slamming the Labour government. But honestly, Andrew Neal was so on the wrong side of history when it came to COVID. And I also remember telling him, and I think this looks, him telling me, sorry, it looks really wrong now, but he said to me, Dan, why do you keep talking about Brexit? You know, it's done, it's over, and he was a big COVID lockdown guy. So actually, I think it was a real gift, the fact that we were the underdogs right from the start because he left, eventually Mark Stein came in, Nigel Farage came in, and all of a sudden,

we were actually doing really daring crazy stuff. Well, there was a period of time with Mark Stein, it was you, it really was an alternative voice. The bizarre thing, it was an alternative voice on television. And, I mean, I for one, never thought I would see that, you know. I mean, what was it like when it was good? Well, I mean, it's really interesting because it was never easy to work at TV News. I mean, I would honestly, like, come in and one day we would be off air for 45. minutes. And I'd be

sitting in the studio just seething because it's like this is not good. How is this still happening? But what we were doing was really exciting and what was so interesting to me is that we were total outsiders at that point. So now

GB News is an establishment organ now. I see all the Tory politicians they line up and go on, even the Labor ones do. None of them wanted to come on at the start. None of them. None of them wanted a bar of what we were doing on GB News because it was too daring, too risky for them.

But that is when GB News was actually brilliant because we were treated as a laughing stock. So the establishment for a period didn't care. You could do what you wanted. Yeah, yeah. Because the off-communists didn't care. They're like, oh, they're just a joke. They're a joke. You know, they can't even stay on air for a full hour.

So why do we need to worry about them? And then, obviously, our ratings ended up taking over in prime time both the BBC News channel and Sly News. And so it was like oh god actually we've got to be a little bit worried about these guys and the first person well there are a couple of free speech see you see this one never gets talked about but actually dominic frisbee was the first person cancelled from gb news and not many people know that he probably

won't thank me for saying this because he sort of got away with it you know but he did nothing wrong you know he told a joke yeah he told a joke on the show headliners and he was the first person cancelled and when that happened i was like hmm okay this is concerning because it shows they are so nervous that they will literally just sack like Dominic Frisbee was there one night never to return again and he was one of the three main presenters of headlines it just never became a scandal it never became a thing and then Mark Stein had Naomi Wolf on talking about the COVID vaccine and it was like that was the moment that you that the off communist decided that's our red line and we're going to go for him over that now what people don't know is I was fighting huge amounts behind the scenes when it came to Mark Stein. I feel bad I didn't for Dominic Frisbee

and not because I made a choice not to it. It's just like no one was really talking about it. No one was really talking about it. Yeah, it was just like, why is Dominic not here? And then someone was like, oh, he told a joke and it was considered anti-Semitic. It wasn't, by the way, like he has so many Jewish friends. It's like ludicrous to suggest Domic Frisbee is anti-Semitic.

But with Mark Stein, and what people didn't know is for about three or four months before he was actually removed from the channel. And I was on the cruise with Mark Stein has a cruise and I was on it recently. And I mean, he genuinely feels like GP News were trying to kill him. You know, he had a heart attack and they used that moment to sack him. It was all pretty unedifying.

But before that, for about three months, I had been fighting behind the scenes with Neil Oliver and Michelle Jubilee to try. try and stop the management from doing what we knew they were about to do to Mark Stein. Because they had Jacob Rees-Mogg lined up. It was all part of this move to like, well, Mark Stein calls it Tories and trivia. And I saw what was coming. And for me, that was the beginning of the end of what I, the GV News that I wanted it to be, I guess.

Because, I mean, honestly, following Mark Stein was, like the greatest thing ever because it made me so brave I was like there's nothing that I can say that is even going to come close you know he was like parading a mask

of Angela Rainer and calling her the ginger growlera you know it was nuts it was truly nuts but it was also truly brilliant all the women are laughing at that and he did things during that show that have

changed, and he gets no credit for it by the way, gets no credit for it whatsoever, but have changed the direction of our cultural discussions. So it wasn't, I mean, I won't name any names, but it was Mark Stein who started the conversation

about the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs on GP News. It was. No one else, it was all down to Mark Stein. Likewise, COVID and the vaccine injured. Now, I was very proud to play my part too, but he was a true

hero. So when he went at that point, and remember, and I'd been arguing for a long time behind the scenes, I saw what was happening, I saw the change coming towards the channel, but then, of course, this campaign to cancel me started. Yeah, and you kind of saw the writing on the wall

for yourself, kind of? Well, no, actually no, because I know they wanted me to stay because I had the top-rated show, and GP News is all about the ratings, right? They just want the ratings but when the left and I've gone into it a lot but it wasn't just the left this is the hard left byline times working with Prince Harry who was very involved in this it was a genuine

orchestrated cancellation campaign and they just couldn't take it after a certain amount of time you know like and there were so many people who were such letdowns over that period I mean honestly I will never forgive a woman I don't know how many people in this room know her but Caroline Dynage who's the head of the media select committee in the United Kingdom a conservative

a conservative yeah Fred Dynage's daughter yeah I mean a conservative with a big C because this woman is not a small C conservative but she literally basically started a campaign to get myself and Bev Turner removed from Gbby News now with Beavut was because of her support

of Russell Brand and with me it was because of these allegations that were being made by byline times all completely untrue and it's like how dare she you are a politician number one an elected politician

but as the head of the media select committee how on earth do you believe that your role is to dictate who private companies choose to hire on their station and the problem is I saw what happened behind the scenes at GB News Remember, I've worked in lots of big mainstream media companies,

so I know what it's like when a campaign by the state becomes so heavy that they're just terrified. Because Jeremy Boreen, who was the chief executive of the Daily Wire, oh, no, sorry, sorry, no, who is the, Chris Poloski, who's the chief executive of Rumble, sorry, received exactly the same letter from Caroline Dynage in regards to Russell. brand. His response was incredible. It made me so proud. But it was basically, and excuse my language, it was basically, fuck off. Like, you have absolutely no right to tell me who I am going to broadcast on my platform. G.B. News's response was like, oh yeah, we're taking what you say really seriously. Like, I just knew at that point, I knew at that point, I'm like, the game is up,

this is done, it's over, I've got me, and that's what happened. The thing is, this is so symbolic of the upside-down world we live in, isn't it? Where they will go for commercial or independent broadcasters like you, but they will completely leave public service broadcasters alone. They won't touch them. They won't touch the BBC, and they will let the BBC get away with bias and ridiculous kind of accusations, and God knows what. In terms of all of that stuff, that being a warrior, that fighting back, is there a sense now,

if you think about young people? Is there evidence that that's happening with younger people as well? Bearing in mind that these people have been bought up, they know nothing else other than woke identity politics, race politics and all the rest of it. Yeah, I mean, look, I do see lots of positives actually because the great thing about young people today is that, and this is a technological thing rather than an editorial thing, but they are never going to get their news from the mainstream, because they just don't.

So all of a sudden, we've got an equal playing field, so that excites me a lot. But honestly, there are some real structural issues in this country, and until we deal with them, and I'm talking about in the media space, like, why does Offcom exist? Seriously, why does it exist? There are literally so many examples

on LBC, right, with James O'Brien, which cross... Second time it's been mentioned today, actually, isn't it? Yeah, go on. Which cross... Sorry about that. We'd never like talking about them, do we? But which cross every single possible boundary, which, if G.B. News, was doing the same thing, both in terms of bias and conduct...

Let me... That's an all right. 100%. Now, by the way, I'm not for a single second suggesting that James O'Brien should be taken off there. Not for a single single... second. What I'm suggesting is that well, I'm actually suggesting there should be no

Offcom and that was always my position at GB News. Actually, interestingly it was always Nigel Farage's position too. We always wanted management to be so much stronger. Management thought that they could feed the beast and so every now and then it's like okay we'll give you Mark Stein, we'll

give you Lawrence Fox, we'll give you Dan Wooden hell, we'll even throw in Father Calvin Robinson and actually all that happened is then Ofcom then said, okay, well, we've got rid of those crazy far right loons. I know, we're going to come for Jacob Rees-Mogg now. And so it was never enough. They needed to, you know, G.B. News's whole thing was we want to be regulated.

We believe in state regulation. Why? Why the hell should we trust the state to regulate our media? Why the hell should we trust a word that they say when it comes to regulation after what happened during COVID? which is that they forced mainstream media organisations not to run true stories which have been some of the biggest scandals of our time. It isn't regulation, it's authoritarian. And as you say, it's never enough.

They'll go further and further and further. But it's never on the left. It's always on the right. The right is just this thing to eat. Dan, thank you very much. Thank you. You say for some questions. Okay. We've got, we've got a few minutes for questions. Again, can you put your hand up, please?

And can you keep them relatively brief? And let's try and get as many in as we can. So questions for Dan, please. There's one here, the gentleman in the blue show. Make them really hard and nasty, please. You said it. Hi, Dan. I don't know if this is nasty, but it's probably hard.

Disinformation. I'm thinking particularly about disinformation about face masks. I'm not an anti-vax, so I hasten to add. But if you look at the Cochran Review, which is the gold standard of medical evidence, and read the one on community measures against transmission of COVID, it says the studies were pretty quick. crap, but based on available evidence, there is no evidence whatsoever outside clinical settings

that face masks did anything. But I can guarantee the next time we have any kind of disease outbreak, we'll have the face mask police straight out again, even though the medical evidence is they don't work. How do we deal with stuff like that? Well, I think the way that we deal with it is by not allowing our big tech gatekeepers to be the arbiters. And of what is true and what is not true. So the big issue of what happened over COVID, right, is that YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, because it was Twitter at the time,

Instagram, so all of the big platforms, TikTok, which is so censorious, they all were taking their information from the World Health Organization. And so what it meant is there was a total globalist takeover of the media. Now, what I pray and hope happens next time, but I don't have much faith in this, unfortunately, unless Trump is still in office,

is that there is no censorship on the big tech platforms and that we're allowed to interview people, be it Robert Malone or Assamahultra or RFK Jr. All people, by the way, who I did have on my GBMU show, but it was difficult because if you were an independent broadcaster, you could lose your entire income just by having one of those people on. Well, it's the same story. It's exactly the same story over and over again.

It's the cancellation narrative. isn't it? Any there's a gentleman there with the dark hair? Thank you. Dan one aspect that social media has revealed is the biases of journalists. If you

look at the Twitter accounts of people like Emily Maitliss or John Soper, it's highly unattractive, shall we say. Why do... And perhaps to speculate, Why do journalists have views that are just so markedly out of sync with what the rest of the population, centre left, centre right actually have? Is this the environment they live in, or is it just the pressures of the workplace, or are they true believers?

What do you think it is? I actually think they are true believers, and it's really interesting. Obviously, there's a lot of group think that goes on, and especially if you're at a place like the BBC. But the John Soapel-Emily-Maitless example is fascinating, right? I actually love what's happened because we're able to see now in real time what they really think. And just this week, John Soaple on the fake newsagents, as I called it, was interviewing or speaking with Emily Maidless, and he was revealing, it's fascinating. I actually played it on Outspoken on Friday.

He was revealing the techniques that they used at the BBC to get around, being able to put out their opinion. And it was so fascinating. It's stuff that I know, but I'm like, oh my God, they're admitting it. He was talking about Trump, and he'd say, yeah, if I thought he'd done something really repulsive, I'd just say, is this really repulsive with a question mark? And Emily Maitliss spoke about using the term alleged. So I think what's happening is actually really helpful. And personally, it's like, fine, you do that on the newsagents.

But in terms of how it works in a newsroom, obviously I find it quite fascinating because I'm like, a lot of these people who think this way are working for Murdoch. That's what I could never get my head around. And it's like, you're working at the Sun for Rupert Murdoch and you hate everything that he's about. I find it weird. But, you know, the current editor of the Sun is a new Labour woman, a close friend of Gary Linneker.

And I think you can see it in their coverage. They endorsed Labor at the election. And this week, they did a front page about done up like a Kipper in regards to Stama's deal or, you know, New Deal with the EU. and it was like people were saying oh this is great the sun's back and I'm like no no no they endorsed labour

like this is on you the sun because we all knew what was coming like I reckon every single person in this room knew what was coming when it came to Stama in the EU yeah I think just to add on to that as well I mean we had a brilliant talk by Matthew Hamilton before

and Matt Dan just talked about that group think thing thing and I think he just summed it up brilliantly. You know, it's like, what? Other people think differently. I mean, this little Hampstead bubble and other people think differently. I think there is a definite element of that, but there's also this element of contempt. They also know it's a double think thing. They know that people think differently and they hate people for it. They hate people for being working class, having minds of their own and wanting free speech. I think that's a really, really important thing.

had a handover here, and there's one over there as well. We'll get through them. Yep. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Hi, Mr. Watson. How you doing? Good, thank you. Thank you for your wonderful speech and presentation. I just wanted to, oh, yes? No, no, you were okay.

Oh, I just wanted to ask for, if there was more growth of influences and journalists of people who looked like myself and based in Bougie, do you think off-com would regulate them and cancel them out? If they can, yes, absolutely. And I think it's going to be so interesting to see what happens with people like you online because how long is this Labour government and the off-communists going to allow you to broadcast freely online?

I think it's really interesting, but it's not going to be easy for them because the example that I always use, because people keep saying, well, they're going to come for the internet, and they are trying to regulate the internet with the online safety bill, right? But if they truly try to regulate news shows online,

the risk that that means is that they would also have to regulate Joe Rogan and Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson. So it opens up a whole can of worms. So I think they're going to try. I think they're going to try and find a way. And I don't rule out the fact that I might have to be like pirate radio at some point, you know, be broadcasting my show from Florida, yeah, you know, which would be okay, right? Florida would be all right. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. But keep doing it.

It's funny, isn't it? You know, years and years ago, if someone would have said you're going to get a really authoritarian government, most people would have thought that government was going to be from the right. most people who thought on you anything about the left knew damn well that Kia Stama's government was going to happen sooner or later. We've got a gentleman here with the beard. Hi there. They say you get what you pay for. Is individual subscription the future of the financial model? Yes. And, you know, we sort of

debacle over advertising at GP News and, yeah, the whole YouTube demonetization. And how do you get around that for people who can't afford 50 subscriptions? Yeah, I mean, that is really interesting, actually. I mean, the first thing is I encourage everyone to cancel their BBC license fee, use that money to support journalists or journalistic organizations that you love. Because honestly, that five pounds a month is the difference between you've been able to to operate, I'm sure it's the same for the New Culture Forum, and not being able to operate. In terms of the bigger questions, though, I don't want to ever have to work for a billionaire again in my life, genuinely. It is so important. I mean, probably when I look back, the most caustic

and toxic influence at GB Newsworthy owners. And by the way, that's not to say that they're not, on the whole, really good people, right? Like, Paul Marshall and the Lagartam Institute, I'm sure most of us in this room would look at them on the whole and say they're quite a positive force for Britain. But no broadcaster should be concerned about personal

relationships that billionaires have when you're broadcasting your work. And trust me you are if you're at GB News and believe me you really are if you're working for Murdoch. So absolutely the solution is individual subscription going forward because I think now

people have much more trust in individuals than they do, organizations. And just from a practical point of view, Substat, for example, is a genuine free speech platform. It is going to allow people who would not be allowed in the past on other platforms. They've proven that they're going to be strong in terms of allowing even some neo-Nazi voices, right? Which obviously is very controversial, but I think it shows a commitment to free speech, which actually should be embraced for that reason.

And all I would say is that G.B. News is never going to be profitable. Trust me, no matter what they say, sly news lost 80 million pounds last year. And yet they carry on. 80 million pounds. And yet they carry on in the same thing. It's completely unsustainable. But it is completely unsustainable. And the great thing is, and I wait for this day, you know, come on in Beth Rigby

and Robert Peston, you try and enter this space, they will fall flat on their face because people are not interested in that establishment narrative. Yeah. I think one thing to say there about the free speech thing, having opinions you despise, one, it's very important to let those people speak so you know who they are, okay,

and two, you need to be confident, as we said in that last panel, to be able to easily fight back against that stuff and make them look risible. But none of us are saying that Linneker and Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart should be cancelled. I mean, my thing is, is great. If they go into the commercial marketplace and they can prove that they can survive in that marketplace, which at the moment certainly Linneka's podcasts are proving. I'm more than happy with that.

Just do not take money from the BBC. That is it. That's one thing. The other thing as well is with something like substack, it actually has a mix model, doesn't it? So you subscribe and someone like Dan. would offer material for people who are paying, but you offered tons and tons of material for free as well, don't? Yes, and look, there are big debates about sort of bundling

and would it be possible in the future for people to also receive, you know, Matt Goodwin and Constantine Kissin as part of a bundle, and Liz Truss is working on a new right-wing network, but it's just, I'm just not sure if that's what people want, if they want another big brand now, the sense that I get is people just love authenticity. DIY. Yeah, and exactly, you don't need big studios or any of that,

or any of the huge overheads of running a news organization. You want content and independence, essentially, don't you? Right, any more? I think we can, oh, God, there's loads. We can take two more if they're very quickly. Chris there. Yep. I love it. So many questions. This is great.

Dan, and Phil, actually, media has been evolving over the last 50 years with technology. What do you think about the long-form conversation as podcast? Yeah, I think it's been a game changer, an absolute game changer. I think the day, the error of the gotcha interview is over. and I do not shed a tear over that. Why should we have Nick Robinson just berating politicians and think that's a way to get an answer on anything? No, I want to listen to, I don't know, Richard Tice for two hours

because that is how I'm going to find out. Are you actually committed to these 80 billion pounds of tax cuts? You know, are you going to change the electoral system? We need to know how these people really think. And obviously, look, it's going to go down in history, isn't it? Those two interviews during the election campaign in the US on Joe Rogan of J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, I think, changed the game. Because we now are going to expect a politician to be able to do that. And by the way, we all know that Biden would never have got through, not even close.

And I don't think Carmelah would have either, which is why she didn't do it. And actually, why on earth do we want someone leading our country if they can't sit down for a two-hour interview? It should be the least they can do. It's all linked, isn't it? It all comes back to censorship. The gotcha is literally shutting someone down and not allowing them to speak positively.

All of these things are together. Right, I think we can have one more question. Can we, this gentleman here. What lessons does New Zealand hold for this country? New Zealand. God. You really don't want to get me started on that. So I'm a dual citizen. I'm a timer on him, I think, for this one. I'll be very quick. I'm a dual citizen. I was born in New Zealand. My parents are English, so I'm proud of both countries. But what has happened

in New Zealand actually brings me great shame. I think it can all be summed up really in one sound by it, which was Jacinda Ardern in the middle of COVID, literally expressing to the New Zealand population, we are your single source of truth. Do not listen to anything else apart from us. That's terrifying. That is true authoritarianism. She is evil. And I know that shocks some people because Jacinda Ardern is all about kindness, right? Like she's got a book out about being kind. She is actually, and trust me, I've seen this up close, I have seen lives destroyed in New Zealand because people chose not to take the vaccine or chose not to stay in isolation. She has divided that society forever. And so it's very easy to criticize what the Conservative government did

during COVID, right? And I think we could all probably agree that Boris Johnson got it wrong on a lot of fronts. I would argue that actually in his soul he knew that a lot of what he did was wrong and he is a libertarian who was captured by the globalist bodies. And all I say is thank God we didn't have Stama or a figure like Jacinda Ardern in charge during the pandemic. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to ask you to back twice, Dan Witton. Thank you so much for watching me in the hot seat. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you so much to Dr. Philip Casale and the New Culture Forum

for putting those questions so sensitively and giving me a chance to speak out honestly to tell my story. I'm obviously always so interested in the news and my guest stories, but that was such a special experience for me. I am a very big fan of the New Culture Forum. I really do recommend you subscribe to them on Substack for so much important content that you will not get from the MSN. Now, there is no uncanceled after show today because of the special edition, but we will be back soon.

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