Dan Wootton Outspoken - REFORM CHOAS AS ZIA YUSUF FINALLY RESIGNS AFTER BURKA BAN CIVIL WAR

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

VERSO - https://evening.ver.so/outspoken - Use code OUTSPOKEN to save 15% on your first order. BREAKING TODAY: New calls for Reform UK Chairman Zia Yusuf to be sacked by Nigel Farage after he plunges the surging party into another civil war after branding new MP Sarah Pochin “dumb” for raising the prospect of a Burka ban. The fallout has been intense - and Dan will reveal in his Digest why this Muslim political novice must not stay in post if Reform has any chance of saving the country. Then reaction from Alexandra Marshall, a Mark Steyn regular of The Spectator Australia. PLUS: Tommy Robinson dramatically confronts the mainstream media as he appears in court charged with harassment of Daily Mail journalists. We’ll show you the extraordinary scenes. AND: Jacinda Ardern lies to Oprah Winfrey in the latest sickening round of promotion for her autobiography. Dan will explain why this woman is the opposite of kind and is actually an evil political force. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Meghan Markle’s moon bump video backfires spectacularly as the rest of the world - including some in the MSM - finally come around to what we’ve been saying here on Outspoken since the beginning. Lady Colin Campbell will analyse the fallout. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visa Card, paying your bills could sound like this. Yes! Earn rewards for paying your bill in full and on time each month. Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wood and this is Outspoken Live episode number 242. And breaking today, new calls for Reform UK chairman Zia Youssef to be sacked by Nigel Farage after he plunges the surging party into another civil war by branding new female MP Sarah Puchin dumb for raising the prospect of a Birka ban. Given the Prime Minister's desire to strengthen strategic alignment with our European neighbours, will he, in the interests of public safety, follow the lead of France, Denmark, Belgium and others

and ban the burka? The brilliant new MP Sarah Poken asked about banning the burka in Westminster and obviously that should be reform policy but now a spokesperson has come out and said that is not reform policy. Was that you Mohammed Zia Yousaf? Well he soon admitted that it was and the fallout, well today it has been intense. Even suggestions that the chairman has been sidelined within Reform UK. So I'm going to be very clear in my digest next about why this Muslim political novice must not stay in post if Reform has any chance of saving the country. Then reaction from my superstar panel,

Alexandra Marshall, a Mark Stein regular of the Spectator Australia and Professor Norman Fenton, author of Fighting Goliath. Also coming up on the show today, Tommy Robinson dramatically confronts the mainstream media as he appears in court charged with the harassment of Daily male journalists. We're going to show you the extraordinary scenes and Norman Fenton was there so he'll give us

insight. Jacinda Ardern lies to Oprah Winfrey in the latest sickening round of promotion for her autobiography. I'm going to explain why this woman is the opposite of kind. Actually, do you know what? She's an evil political force. And Meghan Markle's moon bump video backfires spectacularly as the rest of the world, including some in the MSM, finally come around to what we've been saying here on Outspoken since the beginning. So we're going to analyze all of this fallout. Then in the uncancelled after show, oh my goodness, I cannot wait for this, Lady Colin Campbell Unleashed. Can you imagine what she's going to say about that video? You can sign up to

watch www.outspoken.live right now. Of course by the end of the show we'll also have today's Greatest Britain in Union Jackass to reveal your nominees today. Really interesting. Meghan Markle, nominated by Kizzy Politics for that totally fake bump in that disgraceful video. Piers Morgan, nominated by at warning shout for blundering his way into debates to suit his own rhetoric and viewing figures. He never listens to the other person's opinion. He's become a celebrity entertainer whose feather duster has gone soggy. And the A4 mentions Ea Youssef nominated by Real Mick Cass. Bet he has fired off a call to arms email asking the reformed troops to back him on X. So get voting, let me know your thoughts during the show.

I'll share some of the best of them before we go today. It's a big one. Let's go. So I told you before the election, not because I wanted to damage Reform UK, but because my only duty to you, the outspoken audience, is to tell you the truth at all times at any cost. So the backlash within Nigel Farage's party towards its egomaniac, political novice, Muslim Chairman Zia Youssef was reaching critical

mass. Faraj himself, remember, was, as I reported, even though Youssef had the cheek to call me a liar, Faraj himself was reassuring senior figures within the party that he acknowledged there is a real big problem with his chairman who let's never forget had reported Rupert Lowe to the police for hurty words and Farage was telling his allies that he would be dealt with after the election. So that process has now started with Youssef sort of Elon Musk style being dispatched to launch the UK Doge before he does any more political damage to the surging party. But then, the new run corn and Halsby MP Sarah Pochon used her first ever parliamentary question to slippery-starmer at PMQs to launch a much needed and long delayed national debate on

whether the burka should be banned throughout the United Kingdom. Given the Prime Minister's desire to strengthen strategic alignment with our European neighbours, will he in the interests of public safety, follow the lead of France, Denmark, Belgium and others, and ban the burka? The Prime Minister I welcome her to her place, but I am not going to follow her down that line, but now she is here and safely in her place, perhaps she could tell her new party leader that his latest plan to bet £80 billion of unfunded tax cuts, he had no idea how he was going to pay for it, is Liz Trust all over again? Although considering I think she was a conservative member when Liz trust with leader, I should probably won't.

So an absolutely pathetic response there from Slippery Starmer. That's what the focus should be on. Yet the fallout actually was coming from within Reform UK. Almost immediately Youssef, the Muslim chairman of the party released a statement insisting that position outlined by Pochon was not reform policy, even though the party's chief whip, Lee Anderson, had backed exactly what she said. Now Rupert Lowe, who knows better than anyone else, the brutality unleashed if you dare question unelected Youssef's authority, posted, Great question!

From Sarah Pochon on banning the burka. Too bloody right. Bold stuff. I love it. Shame it's not reform policy. Then he added facetiously, I was very sorry to read about Sarah's suspension from reform tomorrow. But here's the thing, it wasn't actually far off.

What happened after Katie Hopkins weighed in? The brilliant new MP, Sarah Poken, asked about banning the burka in Westminster. And obviously that should be reform policy. But now a spokesperson has come out and said, that is not reform policy. Was that you, Mohammed Zia Yousuf? Mohammed's got himself a little bit of a problem now because if he's trying to get rid of Sarah in the way that he got rid of Rupert Lowe, he'd have to say that she beat him up. That'll make him look like a right dickhead down at the mosque. He also has a problem because

she's a woman and according to Mohammed Zia Yousuf she should be, I don't know, in the kitchen under a curtain. And finally maybe Mohammed could organise an honour killing or something. I hear his guys are kind of big on that. Katie then posted on X. Dear Zia Yousaf Mohammed, a Reform Party spokesperson says a Birkeban is not party policy? This you? At work again Moe? What's next? Sarah Pochon threaten you in the office? Need to report it to the police? Berkaban must be party policy. Now Youssef took the bait. He replied directly to Katie Hopkins, nothing to do with me. Had no idea about the question nor that it wasn't policy, busy with other staff. I do think it's dumb for a party to ask the PM if they would do something the party itself wouldn't do. QFury from Reform Members, I mean Youssef literally

with one post has quite simply plunged the party back into civil war. Katie summed it up best, directly responding to him, Darling, unelected Mohammed Zia Youssef, please do not call an elected MP dumb. British women are not dumb. And my mouth is mighty. Want me to show you? That was show not blow. Rupert Lowe fast waded in adding Sarah Pochon is an elected MP. She has every right to voice her opinion on such an important topic. That is not dumb and she's absolutely right. We should ban the burka. Whilst we're there let's throw in the kneecap. What's your view, Zia? Now even mainstream journalists like Christian Kalgi from the Express were horrified, asking

am I misreading this? Or is Zia Youssef Branding Reform's newest MP as dumb? Well no, you weren't misreading it, Christian Kalgi, and actually Christian Kalgi has done some reporting today and revealed that Zia Youssef has been sidelined within Reform UK. He's now focusing on Doge away from political operations. Hmm, don't think I was lying. Was I Mr Youssef when I reported before the election that Nigel Farage has acknowledged to senior allies that you have to go. Now Farage himself has been more circumspect on the burka ban policy. This was him on GB News last night. But let's get back to what Sarah Pochene is talking about.

I think this debate actually goes beyond the burka and she listed some European countries there but I'm going to add to that. Cameroon, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Gabon, Tunisia, in Asia, China, Sri Lanka, Terministan, Uzbekistan, there are many many many countries in the world that are banning the burka but I think it goes further than that. You see Sarah said in the interest of public safety, I was in Aberdeen on Monday, there was a mob there to meet me, an organisation called Antifa and half of them had complete face coverings on so they would be unidentifiable. I don't think face coverings in public places make sense and I think we do deserve a debate about that which I see the burka

as being a part of. Well your chairman doesn't Nigel and can we just be honest about the fact that he probably doesn't because of his religious faith? Now today it's become clear that Youssef's position is increasingly untenable. Reform member Sophie Kokorin, who was attacked the other day by Richard Theiss' girlfriend Isabel Oakeshott for questioning the party's decision to back the lifting of the two-child benefit cap, wrote, Sarah poaching calls to ban the burka.

Reform release a statement saying it's not their policy, hours after Lee Anderson and Faraj agree with. So who's the person that tried to throw Sarah under the bus? I mean it's not right is it? Your first female MP asking their first PMQ a time to rally around and support and instead there's someone making statements against her despite having the leader and chief whip on her side. Doesn't look good does it? Not fair for her.

Conor Tomlinson, who's here tomorrow, responded to Youssef directly, writing, No. Sarah Pochman was not dumb. One of the great functions an MP can perform is to make space for public discourse using parliamentary privilege. By asking the question and watching Stammer avoid answering it, Sarah distinguished between those willing to admit that Islam presents unique moral and cultural challenges and those who are not. Sarah used her maiden question to make salient the imported practice of covering a woman head to toe, based on the Islamic

belief that bare skin acts as a cruel temptation for men to sin, and that women bring acts of sexual violence upon themselves by dressing immodestly. That's not how we treat women according to British custom. The public would be right behind Sarah in banning burqas. And by the way, even those who are not behind a burka ban still are celebrating the fact that Sarah Poechin raised this issue. Anaya Falarin-Aman, for example, my former colleague, posted, Good for Sarah Poechin for raising an important yet under-discussed topic.

It's right for an MP to question whether anti-social misogynistic practices like wearing the burka is compatible with our society. I don't support banning it, but we should certainly have the debate. But yet again, Zia Youssef has made this all about himself, all about himself because he clearly opposes the policy because of the fact he is Muslim. And this actually is going to be difficult the longer this goes on, because the harder it's going to be for Faraj to attract top tier talent to the party given the threat of what Yousuf could do.

Now the spectator and their cover piece today make clear attracting top talent is a priority for the party. Let me just take you through a couple of little interesting parts from this cover feature. They write that there will be a considerable push to attract influential business figures. High profile contacts from the worlds of tech and finance will be approached, courted and assured of reforms intent. We want genuinely impressive people says one senior, unlike the muppets

you have had in recent cabinet. Sporting figures with their perceived get-up-and-go attitude are wanted too. Reform is aiming to replicate the success of Luke Campbell, the Olympic boxing gold medalist turned mayor of Hull, Derek Chisora, another boxer and a long-time Faraj fan, is also reportedly keen to stand. There is the hope of attracting a rugby star for Cardiff Bay next spring. We get a lot of cricketers interested, remarked one insider. But here's the issue.

Here is the big issue for reform. Trust me that as long as use of remains in place, as a one-man tool of destruction against those who have committed their lives to the Parsi, but have a different policy platform from him on very important issues, which by the way are supported by the membership of the Parsi, as long as there is the chance of him continuing to throw people under the bus, like he did to Rupert Lowe who he wanted locked up in prison, like he's now done to Sarah Poacham because she wants a burka ban, let me tell you the less chance there is of Reform UK ever attracting the talent they need to save this country. To debate this now let me bring in today's superstar panel.

And I'm delighted to have with me today Professor Norman Fenton. He was at the court earlier for the Tommy Robinson hearing. We will be discussing that very shortly, author of course of the brilliant book Fighting Goliath and I'm so excited to have her making her outspoken debut, Alexandra Marshall of the Spectator Australia, familiar to so many of you as a regular on the Mark Stein show. So Alexandra, could you believe the way that Zia Youssef has thrown the party's only female MP under the bus like that? Well, first of all, as the online editor of The Spectator Australia, who has just spent ages writing about the political infighting following our federal election. All I can say is, please do not destroy reform. You guys are so lucky to have a political opposition like that party, which we do not have.

We look at the UK and go, if only we had reform. So I am surprised to see this infighting happening over a topic like this, when clearly the purpose of the question was to pin the Labour Party down on its values because it is having serious trouble with the rise of multiculturalism in the UK upsetting its working class base in its area. So it's actually a very good question to annoy Keir Starmer and certainly not a reason for the party itself to start fighting. But I also think you're right that this kind of thing, if it upsets the party internally,

then the party will have problems going forward if it does not address why it cannot agree on something as simple as heckling labor over a burqa ban. Indeed. And the thing is Norman Fenton, he used the word dumb. And I have a real issue now with Zia Youssef. He is a really arrogant guy. He called me a liar before the last election, even though I was simply reporting the truth. I was reporting from my top reform sources what Nigel Farage had actually said to senior members of the party. Whatever you think of Nigel Farage's specific

positions on issues, one can respect the fact that he has a long pedigree, that he is in this position because he has been one of the most influential politicians of his generation. What has Zia Youssef ever done? He has been parachuted into this party and I'm starting to believe, Norman, he might even be there to destroy it. Well, it's possible. There definitely has been some kind of like a very important change in dynamics between Zia Youssef and Nigel Farage because let's look at what happened just a few weeks ago. you know, he was, Nigel Farage was very reluctant to discuss any issues related to Islam. He certainly wouldn't then have said anything

about banning the burka. He wouldn't have encouraged that. He was, he never really wanted to discuss anything like the Muslim rape gangs or Islamic terrorism. He was very, very careful to avoid those issues. I think because he was encouraged by, must have been encouraged by Zia Youssef to believe that they could gain a significant number of votes from the Muslim population, right? And even remember...

Yes, and isn't this the issue normally? Well, sorry to interrupt, but let me, before you go on, can I just say something? Because I remember when Zia Youssef gave that speech at the Reform UK conference before the election. I was speaking to very senior figures within Reform UK and I'm just going to be honest with you, the reason they loved him was because he's Muslim. They were playing the identity politics game and I think that's dangerous for a party like Reform. Yeah, and Nigel Farage was clearly up for that, whether that's because of the funding or not, who knows, but the point is he was up for it to the extent that for example he

unnecessarily later made that attack against Tommy Robinson and his supporters which is completely ridiculous because like it or not they do form a substantial part of the reform voter base. There's no doubt about that. But the thing is that there must have been, Farage surely would not have allowed Sarah Potin to make that speech if he now wasn't some way wanting to sideline the use of complete would happen. Totally, because he was there. He was there. That's the thing, Alexandra Marshall, I think something else is going on here. I think Farage is making the point a bit like we've seen this in the White House, haven't we? I was just watching Donald Trump in the White House earlier today, sort of

distancing himself from Elon Musk. And I think there is an aspect of Farage now doing that with Zia Youssef. He has realized that this guy has become toxic. And at the end of the day, I completely understand what you're saying, Alexandra Marshall, about the need for there to be a strong reform party. But the problem is, Zia Youssef is trying to drag this party to the left on social issues. And I'm sorry, when it comes to Islam, there does need to be a discussion in this country about demographic change, about the rights of the human rights of women that are being taken away. And I just don't know, with a Muslim chairman, if Reform UK are prepared to have that argument.

Well, more to the point as well, if they're going to get into the idea of playing identity politics on a per capita basis for being elected, there are more women and female votes to be had in this election than there are the devout Muslim votes who would be interested in a burqa and having that being allowed to be worn. So if you want to impress your electorate and win elections, women are very disturbed by the idea that what is essentially a visible shackle, a form of enslavement, is now acceptable in a Western country, particularly the UK, which we all cherish as the heart of this new liberal democracy.

To see that running around and to know that it signifies that women are now oppressed and that it's woke and virtuous to embrace this oppression, that upsets women. Even if they are too frightened to say it, they will certainly vote along those lines. So it makes sense for reform and for Nigel Farage to recognise his natural voting base and to at least alert them that he and his party are aware of this issue and want to have those conversations.

Now, as far as people like Elon Musk and having a fear of being dragged to the left, well, that's true as well, where some people are useful to start to form the party and to get the party off the ground, but perhaps they have a use-by date, shall we say, politically, where their influence starts to become a problem. Indeed, absolutely fascinating stuff and of course my whole view on Reform UK and I'm very very clear about this is obviously at the moment they are probably the best electoral option. I voted for them at the last election however there is a drift to the left on loads of issues and it's absolutely

necessary for someone like me as a critical friend and independent journalist to continue to hold this party to account. I will not be scared by the threats from Zia Youssef. I was not lying before the next election and it is now very, very clear that this guy has been thrust out into the cold by Nigel Farage and the sooner that happens I would argue the better. Breaking today, an extraordinary confrontation between Tommy Robinson and the mainstream media outside of court as he faces trial for the harassment of two daily male journalists. Now the Mercian summed up what

went on in court writing, breaking Tommy Robinson pleads not guilty to harassment. A judge has rejected calls from the prosecution to place a gagging order on Robinson citing free speech. The case now goes to Crown Court, allowing him to have a jury for the first time. So that is an incredibly significant moment. But I think what was more fascinating today about what happened was the fact that Tommy Robinson, newly freed from HMP Woodhill with more energy than I would ever have expected for someone who has just spent seven months in solitary confinement, is going to be prepared to call out the mainstream media to their face. Remember, upon his release, he described the mainstream media as the cancer destroying Britain, but said the independent media is the cure. We got an

example today of exactly how he now plans to take his fight directly to the people who for so long have skewed the information that they believe the public are allowed to receive. So we're going to get analysis from Alexandra Marshall of The Spectator Australia and Professor Norman Fenton who was at court today in just one moment but first let's see how Tommy decided to go for these guys. Do you know what's mad? You've got all of these cameras here, this is the mainstream media. How many of these people reported on the rape gangs across the UK? None of them. And every

one of them knew about it. Every one of them knew about it. And Tommy then specifically pointed out how the Daily Mail, which is of course the reason behind this case, is now boasting about their reporting which he has so many issues with. Mail online, yeah? This is from the Press Awards. I wish I had this for my documentary that went out last night, yeah? Tommy Robinson on holiday. Our photograph of Tommy Robinson stoking the flames of the post-alphabot race rights from the safety of the Cypriot sunbed became one of the defining images of this summer's disorder. They're celebrating that Axel Ruda Cabana was not the defining image of the summer's disorder. A picture of me on my sunbed. I had nothing to do with it? I had absolutely nothing to do with it. Just leave it, lads. I had absolutely nothing to do with it. So it's frustrating, but they come, they lied, they

tracked down where I was, they locate, they get the location of my family, they endangered my family, and what they don't want is the camera being turned on them. So I decided I'm going to turn the camera on them. That's what I decided. Tell them to leave. Leave it, leave it, leave it. So I decided to turn the camera on them, which is what I'd done. I didn't threaten violence. I said I'm going to ask you questions on camera. And for that, in 2025, Great Britain, turning the camera and saying to journalists, I'm going to come and find you now. And when I find you, I'm going to ask you questions. But I made it clear, when I do find you, I'm not going to show images of your family, I'm not going to show where you live, yeah,

because that's morally bankrupt. And then outside court Tommy made good on his promise by directly challenging a reporter who was at court for woke ITV. Watch the extraordinary confrontation. If you're a journalist who'd have watched my films you'd have understand why I'm in court today. You woke ITV watch the extraordinary confrontation. no re-investigation you've just said that okay these men tracked down my family they photographed into some members of my family and put them in danger I then said to them do you think I should be able to ask journalist questions do you think I should be able to contact a journalist I'm going to ask you a question on camera do you think okay do you think I should be able to contact the journalist now yeah so I know who you are now should I be able to send you a message and I'm going to come with my camera and ask you questions like you've done to me? Well I don't know.

You don't know? No. Do you believe in free speech and free press? I do. So you believe in free press? Yeah. So do I ask you again? Do you think I should be able to contact a journalist and tell him I want to ask him a question on camera? I think you need to perhaps put it through to ITV.

Put it through to ITV? The news desk? I need to put it through to ITV on the news desk. Did the Daily Mail put it through to me when they secretly covertly recorded my daughter, my ex-wife and they put pictures of her in a national newspaper in danger? Is that right? Do you think that's right with the Daily Mail did? No. So, okay, so you don't think that's right with the Daily Mail did?

I'm facing ten years in jail for saying I wouldn't have asked them a question on camera. Do you think that's right? Do you think we've maybe got a biased justice judiciary? How am I even in court today? They endangered my family. How are you, honestly, although you seem like a nice folk, how are you being sent here and you haven't even looked into this? Because you're going to now just run a headline and your headline is total lies. So what you're doing is you're feeding propaganda to the public from the establishment that lies about me as a journalist but don't lie because you're

controllable they are get it you're worried about losing your job i'm not so they can't control me so i'll turn the camera on you people like you and say they're lying this is how they're lying right and that's what i'm doing because they don't like that i get tied up through these courts lawfare after lawfare after lawfare. I've done nothing wrong. I've done nothing wrong. We are going to return to this story of Tommy Robinson outside court.

But breaking right now, Zia Youssef has in the last few moments resigned as the chairman of Reform UK. Here's his statement on X. Eleven months ago, I became chairman of Reform. I've worked full-time as a volunteer to take the party from 14 to 30 percent, quadrupled its membership and delivered historic electoral results. I no longer believe working to get a reform government elected is a good use of my time and hereby resign the office. Wow. So as you know, I reported before the local

elections that Nigel Farage had told senior figures within Reform UK that it was a matter of time before Zia Youssef would be booted from the party. He has been a destructive force for Reform UK. His decision to report Rupert Lowe to the police for hurty words is one of the most catastrophic decisions I have ever seen in British politics. It completely undermined the position of Reform UK as an anti-woke party. It plunged the party into civil war. It saw thousands and thousands of members quit and it has resulted in an insurgent force which may now take on Reform UK in the Integrity Party if Rupert Low choices to join or he may go the other way and become part of the Conservatives. Zia Youssef called me a liar for that reporting. Well let me tell you I was right, he was wrong, he's now gone. This is an incredible thing for Reform UK.

This is absolutely the right decision. He has been a destructive force for that party and I genuinely believe that there is now hope that Reform UK can get back on the right track. Zia Yousha should never have got the job, identity politics do not work and unfortunately what he proved in the past 24 hours with his criticism of Sarah Pochon as dumb, the party's only female MP as dumb, because she dared to challenge the Prime Minister on I believe something that is going to become a very important and popular issue in this country, banning the burka shows that he was never a man who was capable or fit for this position. So this news has just broken, but three words from me, good riddance Youssef.

Let me bring in my superstar panel on this breaking news now, Professor Norman Fenton and Alexandra Marshall, online editor of The Spectator Australia. Norman, wow, it was only a matter of time, but this has spectacularly combusted. What do you make of his decision to go? Well, first of all, well done for calling it. You're absolutely right. But I just thought about saying something that I maybe should have said before the there's a by-election isn't there in Scotland today yes reform are actually come so I suspect that that you know the timing of Sarah Pudgin speak was very convenient for that by-election I think it's a I think it is a you know as you've suggested there this could be an

important and positive turning point for reform. And hopefully, I mean, as Alexandra was saying, you know, she felt rightly, at least we had something, a party which was, you know, an alternative to the Uniparty. The concern was that with Zia Youssef, it was just going to be another part of the Uniparty. Now, it looks like there's an opportunity to make it a true opponent to the Uniparty. This was absolutely necessary, absolutely necessary. And I think one of the big issues now, and I hope Nigel Farage learns from this, don't go for someone because of the colour of their skin, don't go for someone because of their religion, go for someone because they are a true believer

and because they want to turn this country around. And I think, and I look, I understand why he did it, but I think he fell into the identity politics trap and it has massively come back to Bison. Do you agree, Norman? Yes, no, I mean that's it. I think that there's no reason why people of any ethnicity shouldn't vote reform if they believe in confronting the whole woke agenda and the Uniparty. This is a very, very good move. Alexandra Marshall, your reaction, Zia Youssef out as Reform UK chairman. Dan, I think you might have heard his feelings with your editorial. He clearly heard you and immediately stepped down to avoid any more nasty words from your program. But it's basically the best case scenario possible where now the party does

not have to go through the ugly process of having the ideological war out or Trying to find ways to remove him by making his life difficult all of that wastes time All of that annoys the party base and it detracts from what the party is supposed to be doing Which is pretty much reforming the entirety of UK British politics, but not only your politics You are reforming our politics. We actually are saying in our politics right now that we need a reform party, that we need a Nigel Farage, that we need the same vision as reform, and we're even softly calling some of our minor parties reform in casual language. That is the

impact that that movement is having and how crucial, absolutely crucial it is, that it survives. Yes, I just want to play you what I had to say on this from the 19th of April. Listen, unhinged bile at me for reporting the facts, I've discovered things are actually far worse at Reform HQ than even I had previously realised. Youssef's fury appears to be that Nigel Farage is now openly saying it's a matter of when not if he departs the job after a succession of high profile departures. So he called me a liar for that Norman Fenton. Very, very clear that actually my reporting was completely accurate because he is now gone what,

what six weeks later? Well, I think, I think the reform needs to appoint you as their, as their, as their, as their number one media representative, press secretary, the lot. You've called it right and you've called it absolutely spot on. Where to now for Reform UK? Because it hasn't worked, who do they get as chairman? I mean, can I suggest, for example, and she'll kill me for this because she'll say, absolutely not Dan, I'm too old for this. But what about Anne Whitcomb as an interim chairman, absolutely beloved by the base, Norman Fenton?

That would be a very good choice. I would recommend Cathy Gingell as well from Conservative Woman. True Conservative. I'm not quite sure if Reform UK are ready for that. And do you think there needs to be some type of policy adjustment now, Norman? Yeah, I think that you know the time has come certainly for Raj to stop his kind of like you know unnecessary venomous attacks against people like Tommy Robinson and his supporters and to also deal with, as I said, some of the more serious issues relating, for example,

to the Muslim rape gangs and Islamic terrorism, which because I guess of Zia Youssef, he was absolutely determined to avoid. What do you think this says about Nigel Farage, Alexandra Marshall? I mean, one criticism of Nigel is that he is unable to keep allies close for long. Is that an issue? It's an interesting criticism because it is the criticism of all powerful and ideologically driven individuals in politics. And that's a function of the political people they surround themselves with, which, you

know, are sometimes jealous or they're competing goals and ideas. But I don't think it's a criticism. I think it's a necessary personality trait to do what Farage is doing because the very fact that it's pretty much just Farage and Trump that you can name in current global politics that has completely revolutionized the political movement, that tells you that he's got something special and that whatever he's doing is not easily replicated. And that if there's ever a debate between who should be leading or who should be staying, it's clearly Farage because he's the one who did it. And it's not like it's a one hit wonder with reform.

He also got the UK out of the European Union with Brexit, which was also a huge ideological victory. So as far as like what's next and what to do and the criticism about him, I think people should rally around Farage until he gets the job done, until the Tories are forced to form a coalition with reform. And frankly, as an observer who has no real skin in the game, I'd like to see Farage sitting as Prime Minister just for the sheer fact that the Tories deserve it and the Leo Party deserve it and it would be better than anything else the country's got going for it. And you know

what? He might actually fix some things that are wrong with that country. Yeah. And the thing is, if you are so thin skinned, so thin skinned that you're going to resign over one of your MPs, raising the possibility of a Birkeban, or Norman Fenton, I would argue he was not a man that you really wanted ideologically in that party anyway. Yeah, absolutely not. And also it's worth pointing out Katie Hopkins' important contribution to what's happened.

I mean, so, and she's another person who would be a very good chairman, although also probably a bit too conservative. Yes. Yes. Imagine that. Imagine that that would be absolutely brilliant. She did. She nearly said it and I thought no, I'll be in trouble with Dan if I suggest that but yeah, you're totally right.

No, I would love it. I would love it. Look, the problem that we've got is that especially under Zia Youssef, Reform UK have made this decision to almost try and present as a left-wing party. Now, Alexandra, I completely accept that there are, that there's some credit to this idea that the old left-right labels are superfluous these days. I mean, the idea that the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom could describe itself as a Conservative Party seems for the birds, and I would argue with the Australian Liberal Party it's the same thing. They're not true small c Conservative parties

anymore. However, is it really wrong, Alexandra Marshall, for me to say, no, I don't want some sort of left wing hybrid party. I think we have a right, we deserve a true small c conservative right wing party to try and save the United Kingdom. Thatcher style. Well, so let me contextualize that for you from the Australian viewpoint. We come from a country where we have a coalition. So we've got the National Party and the Liberal Party and also a sort of soft unofficial coalition with parties like One Nation as well, which keep everything a little bit further to the right.

But like you, our liberals and most of our nationals have gone way off the deep end into far left socialist pandemonium because like you guys, we've had almost a century of just this continuous drift toward the left. When I said reform and the Tories as a coalition, I meant reform as the dominant entity and salvaging, I'm sure you've got a handful of good Tories just like we have a handful of good coalition members left who should be part of that movement and that just from sheer numbers would be able to form a government. But yes, you're absolutely right. All Western societies, yours and mine, we deserve a true conservative party. And frankly, our conservatives and your Tory party look nothing like what their party says on the box when we've been having this debate

almost every day since the election because our party was wiped off the face of the election map. Why? Because they're left wing and they don't know who they are or what they stand for. The great thing with reform and Nigel Farage is he knows pretty much most of the time what that party is going to promise and the future it's going to create. That is extraordinary in today's political climate. It is. Do you, Norman Fenton, have hope that Nigel Farage can somehow get this show back on the road now? Yeah, I think he can. He's showed in the past that he's got the skills and the charisma to do that. My worry, as it always is with Nigel Farage, is that what happens when he gets

bored in a couple of years' time, or even after, even if he got them elected, even if he became Prime Minister, how long before he decides he gets bored with that and wants to do something else? Alexandra, do you worry about that? Well, yeah, okay. So he's not like Churchill who had that real born to rule vibe going on from infancy. But I don't think Nigel Farage is going to get bored quickly enough for that to be a problem. I mean, he did stick around for a really long time in the European Union and that takes

patience, that's for sure. And I think if he has the opportunity to be written into the history books, well, that will hold his attention for a significant period of time. And I guess, Norman Fenton, the reality is that Zia Yousef had become an electoral liability to Nigel Farage because for me I would I had lots of people saying Dan you shouldn't be calling this out before the election you know reform is the only option. I'm sorry Norman sometimes you just have to do what's right and I could never ever sit by never ever sit by and watch this power mad egomaniac try and get Rupert Lowe a decent honorable man with the most incredible pedigree as a businessman, no stain on his character, no trouble with the law to try and get him locked up, to try and get him sent to prison,

to try and finish his political career. That's not politics, right? That is the most dirty, despicable cancellation behaviour that we have come to expect from the woke. That's what the left in this country tried to do to me. And so I think Reform UK really have to use this now. Draw a line under it. We are not a party that are going to use those sort of disgusting, despicable, woke tactics of lawfare to try and take out our own. You know, save it

for trying to take out this terrible government. Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, this, you know, I wouldn't have voted reform with those policies that Zia Youssef was trying to push the party towards in the next election, despite the fact that there was no one else. I really wouldn't. But this is why I think it's now a real opportunity and why I think Farage finally realised that and why, as I said at the beginning, I think he engineered the whole thing with Sarah Poach in making that speech in parliament yesterday. Yeah, I think there is definitely something to that, isn't there? Because he was sitting there, he was proud, he spoke about it on his show,

and clearly he wasn't prepared to listen to the chairman. I mean, I guess you could argue this is one of the issues with being in a party with Nigel Farage. It doesn't matter what else your formal role is. Nigel is always boss. But Alexandra Marshall, I mean, I would love to see Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib now welcome back into Reform UK. Alexandra Marshall Yeah, well, I mean, definitely considering their popularity, it wouldn't be a stupid move, but it's interesting you talk about lawfare being used against politicians and political entities. I mean, I am an advisor to a senator for one nation, and let's not forget Pauline Hanson was thrown in jail by the Liberal Party as

our first political prisoner. So it's not just happening over there, it happens over here as well, this idea that the opposition has to be gotten rid of because their ideas are too dangerous, not to society, but to the political entities they are opposing. And of course, you're right, Nigel was definitely there, just nudging quietly, you know, go on, do it, do it, ask the question. Because you need to create that kind of agitation and to highlight exactly what the problems of the party are so they can be fixed rapidly. And once you fix them, which obviously they've self-corrected as we were speaking,

you can now welcome back, let's say, the people who should never have been thrown out of the party, who have popularity, who have their own fan bases and who can contribute going forward. That wouldn't be a bad idea either. Whether they want to come back after being harmed by that experience is another question. But you know, I mean, do you think they'll come back? I think there's too much damage that's been done, unfortunately. But I think Nigel Farage, it would be such a coup if he was able to actually say, you know what, I'm putting ego to one side. All of this can go to one side. It was an issue with the chairman and let's sort it. So if you'll just join us, massive breaking news today.

Zia Youssef has resigned in fury as chairman of Reform UK. Nigel Farage has just weighed in. He's posted on X in the past few minutes. I am genuinely sorry that Zia Youssef has decided to stand down as reform UK chairman. As I said just last week, he was a huge factor in our success on May 1st and is an enormously talented person. Politics can be a highly pressured and difficult game and Zia has clearly had enough. He is a loss to us and public life. Now that is a fascinating statement because this is what Zia Youssef had to say, 11 months ago I became chairman of Reform. I've worked full time

as a volunteer to take the party from 14 to 30 percent, quadrupled its membership and delivered historic electoral results. I no longer believe working to get a Reform government elected is a good use of my time and hereby resign the office. Now Norman Fenton, reading between the lines of both of those statements, there's clearly been no conversation between Nigel Farage and Zia Youssef today. This has clearly caused real consternation. This is a true quitting in the sense that he knows his time was up because he knew that he had lost control of the narrative and lost control of Nigel.

Yeah, it really is. They have fallen out big time, there's no doubt about that. But as we said, this is, I think, a really, really good moment for British politics as a whole because it means that reform can become the serious alternative party that so many out there want them to be. Yeah, it's very interesting, actually. I mean, we've also got a very simple message here from Ben Habib, former deputy leader of Reform UK. Thank goodness Zia Youssef resigned. And Norban is completely right to point out, because we spoke about it earlier in the

show, the impact that Katie Hopkins had on this resignation. So this was her video that sparked Zia Youssef describing Sarah Pochon as dumb, seemingly the final straw for Nigel Farage and the rest of the party. Watch. The brilliant new MP Sarah Pochon asked about banning the burka in Westminster and obviously that should be reform policy but now a spokesperson has come out and said that is not reform policy. Was that you, Mohammed Zia Yousaf? Mohammed's got himself a little bit of a problem now because if he was to try and get rid of Sarah in the way that he got rid of Rupert Lowe, he'd have to say that she beat him up and that'll make him look like a right dickhead down at the mosque. He also has a problem because she's a woman and according to Mohammed Zia Yousaf, she

should be, I don't know, in the kitchen under a curtain. And finally maybe Mohammed could organise an honour killing or something. I hear his guys are kind of big on that. After that video, she then posted directly on X to Zia Youssef. responded and in his response he described Sarah Pochon and that decision as dumb. And I think at that point Norman Fenton the game was up right. So this is proving isn't it the independent media because the Reform UK keep on saying oh you're just the online right you know forget Katie Hopkins forget Rupert Lowe forget Outspoken you're just the online right, you know, forget Katie Hopkins, forget Rupert Low, forget outspoken, you're just the online right. I would argue the online right are starting to play a very significant role in shifting the Overton window on issues like mass deportations, on issues

like demographic change and on issues now like the Berkaban, which made this absolutely untenable for Zia Youssef to continue. Yeah, it's brilliant. And you're making a very strong case here, Dan, for Katie Hopkins to be the chairman. People would love that. People would absolutely love that. It would be brilliant. Wouldn't they? They really would. And the thing is, I think Nigel is very, very aware that he had lost the base of Reform UK. Because honestly, Alexander Marshall, I was tracking the Reform UK membership numbers,

and they were rising at such a rapid rate. I mean, we were literally talking like five, 10,000 a week. And the moment there was that decision to report Rupert Lowe to the police, all of that momentum was lost. Now, of course, they still had massive success at the local elections, because there's not really another option in this country at the moment. But I think, and I'm interested in your view, Alex, but I think, Alexander, but I think

Donald Trump shows you should never take your base for granted. Your base is everything. And I think under Zia Youssef, he was openly dismissive of the Reform UK base. This is so fascinating because we were told during our election that if our conservatives mention Trump, that's why they lost. Even the slightest words of make Australia great again can't do that. That's why you're losing. But the reality is that Donald Trump is the most successful conservative politician of our age. He didn't just win one thing, he won it all. He won the House, the popular vote, the Senate, everything.

He won so consistently and so convincingly that the Democrats are having a complete existential crisis because they no longer exist as a movement. Now that is insane. Now reform is sort of on track but they have to do what Trump did and remember why they are popular in the first place. Why people started to gravitate toward reform and why they gravitated toward Trump. It's because they were speaking for the people who have been forgotten by this horrific and insidious, we call it woke, but really it's just the new version of communism and collectivism. It's just taken on a variety of incoherent traits from different parts of history.

It doesn't know what it is except that it's bad. Well, reform was the opposition to all that is wrong with modern politics and it offered those people who are being basically taxed into oblivion to fund this new empire of crazy. Reform said you know what we are going to save your jobs, we're going to save your culture, we're going to save your civilization if you vote for us. That's why reform is popular. So they cannot afford to diverge into infighting. They cannot waver on significant cultural conversations. They don't have to make banning the burka a policy.

They don't. They just have to know in conversation, in casual pub talk, where they would stand. That is enough. And so that's why it's so crucial that Farage learns from this experience and goes right, this is our core base. This is the direction we have to go in. And of course, don't forget the lesson of Donald Trump. Indeed, very, very well put. Look, I'm just doing some reporting while I'm live on air. Getting some interesting- He's just full of his dragging in a giant olive branch to bring back his former people.

Well, I don't know yet, but I am getting some interesting information about what happened today. I'm told by a senior reform UK source that Zia Youssef was admonished and took it personally on the Muslim issue. Apparently there was a huge row between Nigel and Zia Youssef and Richard Tice stepped into referee. But that clearly didn't go too well, Norman Fenton, because we get the statement from Zia Youssef who's quit in a fit of pique. It's interesting, isn't it? I'm going to change my mind again about the potential party

chairman. I think Alexander Marshall has done such a brilliant job in presenting their case that she needs to come over here and she would make an absolutely brilliant party chairman. I'm trying to save Australian politics Norman, although I would love to be able to save it. It can't be saved, you might be able to save our politics. Oh that's so, you can just imagine the staffers that had to write those tweets because you just know that neither of those two gentlemen wrote those tweets themselves. No, that's the thing. I mean, look, this is going to be incredibly difficult though for Reform UK because it is still a small operation and Zia Youssef for all of his faults had been quite big,

for example, running Doge, etc, etc. So all of a sudden, there becomes Norman Fenton, a vacancy for arguably one of the most important jobs in British politics, because we're not talking about an opposition party now. You only have to look at the polls to show that you're actually talking about a party that could enter government very, very immediately after the next general election without any need for a coalition, without any need for a deal with the Conservative Party. But that is of course going to prove difficult for a party that doesn't have any establishment experience. Now, I don't have the same issue with this as so many others do, because for me, I'm like, why on earth

would we want a whole load of the no-hopers who have just failed in the Conservative Party for 14 years? Yep, there's a couple of them that I'd take into the Conservative, into the Reform UK party, Suhaillahibrava being one. But what's interesting you see is that Zia Youssef was behind this push to try and bring big names to the party. It's the spectator cover story this week. And I think now people will actually be more inclined

to join, however, what I would say the choice of chairman is going to be very, very important. Let me just read out a little bit more about what the spectator specifically reported. This is about the fact that they are looking for impressive people, high profile contacts from the world of tech and finance, sporting figures wanting to replicate the success of Luke Campbell, Derek Chisora, are keen to stand reportedly and they're looking for a rugby star to stand in Cardiff Bay next spring. The article went on, then there are the media personalities. Last month, the former GB News presenter, Gidharan Grimes, made the jump from broadcasting to politics, becoming Durham County Council's deputy leader. Others will probably follow him. Various veterans of Farage's former outfits appear alongside him on GbNews, including Michelle Jubre, one-time

winner of The Apprentice, and Martin Dabney, a former editor of Loaded magazine. Both stood as candidates for the Brexit party in 2019. Other 2029 candidates could include the pollster Matt Goodwin, who has been touring reform branches, and Talk TV's David Bull, who compared Reform's big Birmingham rally in March. Now, Norman Fenton, there are two names there that I could imagine would see themselves as potential candidates to replace Zia Youssef in David Bull and Matt Goodwin both clearly have ambitions to stand for a Form UK in the future but I think one of the issues could be if you're wanting to output and present on an off-communist regulated broadcaster it's hard if you're taking on a formal role within the party.

It will be difficult for them. There's something again that's missing from that conversation. It's the fact that there are a lot of very, very good people, important people, who of course were effectively turfed out or pushed out of reform because they didn't fit the kind of like the woke agenda that Zia Youssef was imposing. Even at all levels, of course, anybody, you remember they were going through, you know, 20 year old tweets or posts, social media posts of some of the candidates who were standing in the election.

If they said even the slightest controversial thing, as far as they're concerned, and that could have been something like mentioning the Muslim rape gangs, for example, was one of the things that people were effectively cancelled for, then they were booted out so there's actually there's actually a this opens up the possibility of some very very good people who without this resignation of Zia Youssef will now be able to be on that list.

we'll now be able to be on that list. Indeed, very, very much so. And it is going to be absolutely fascinating to see what happens. So just a reminder of what we have been breaking in the past few minutes. Zia Youssef on X. Eleven months ago, I became chairman of reform. I've worked full time as a volunteer to take the party from 14 to 30%, quadrupled its membership

and delivered historic electoral results. I no longer believe working to get a reform government elected is a good use of my time and hereby resign the office. I mean, I'm just looking at the first three replies. This is literally totally random, right? Look at the first three replies. Ben Habib, former deputy leader of Reform UK, for the first time ever, I agree with you. Indeed, it was never a good use of your or anyone else's time. Burnside, you did none of that, but feel free to F off to

obscurity. And Connor Tomlinson, who's on the show tomorrow, one word, vindicated with a picture of Rupert Lowe. So that suggests a little bit of where the bass are at. Nigel Farage has also weighed in since we've been on air, posting, I am genuinely sorry that Zia Youssef has decided to stand down as Reform UK chairman. As I just said last week, he was a huge factor in our success on May 1st and is an enormously talented person. Politics can be a highly pressurised and difficult game and Zia has clearly had enough. He is a loss to us and public life.

Well that's where I disagree. That is where I disagree. Let me repeat, good riddance Youssef. You are no loss to Reform UK. I actually don't even think you're a loss to public life. You were a privileged businessman with a massive ego who thought that you were going to be able to do something in that way. And actually, all you did was really, really, really push your own agenda. And that is an agenda that we are not going to miss. Okay. Tommy Robinson, let's return to what happened outside court today when he continued to take on the mainstream media. This is what went down with ITV. ITV news have come here, they haven't watched my previous documentary, they haven't looked at any of this. So they've basically come here, they haven't investigated anything.

They're going to run a headline and lie to you about Wyoming Hawking. That is the importance of this channel it's the importance of citizen journalism it's the importance of every one of you to share the content because these guys come to lie to you and they've been able to do it for a decade and then when big media step when big tech stepped in and censored everyone they could continue those lies right due to Due to you, the public, sharing content and supporting citizen journalism, there's lots of citizen journalists here today

and that pisses these off, right? Because our views are gonna far exceed their views. So whereas they used to control the media and they'd lie to everyone, that doesn't wash any more. Follow me on X, Hattie Robinson-Nuweera, and you're already following this channel. Make sure you share it, yeah? Big up Tommy, let me get my-

And there was more, because he hadn't finished taking on the mainstream journalists excuse me excuse me excuse me where are you from where are you from lads where are you from where are you from which which journalists are you from agencies agencies which media are you what media are you? What media are you? Freelance. Can I ask her? Can I ask her? How are you man? I'll talk to you bro. I'll talk to the citizen journalists because they're the real journalists.

You guys have already got your media, your news headlines wrote already isn't it? It's right already. Who are you from? Who are you from? Reuters. Can I ask you to leave it? Can I ask you, excuse me, Reuters news, excuse me, Reuters news, Reuters news, Reuters news. Leave it, leave it, leave it, I don't want anyone there, just leave it. Just leave it, What were the conditions like in prison? Well Axel Rida Kibana is not in solitary confinement, Salman Amadi's brother is not in solitary

confinement, Islamic gangs are controlling every single prison in this country and officers are coming under a violent attack. The ones you're reading are a little snippet every day they're getting attacked. Now the absolutely extraordinary thing is all of that happened before Tommy Robinson had even entered the court. So what went down inside? Well Maya Tusi reported, huge win for Tommy Robinson in court as the judge defended his free speech and disagreed with the prosecution on their condition to ban Tommy from speaking

out. We now go to Southwark Crown Court with an actual jury for the first time. And we actually got some good independent reporting actually, because you cannot trust, let me tell you, you cannot trust what the mainstream media have to say anytime Tommy Robinson is in court, but we got some good independent reaction,000 a month that would be wonderful. We're going to get some reactions now. We had Tommy Robinson talking about the jury possibly being rigged and now we're going to ask this man what he thinks. How'd it go? I'll cover you up, you have beautiful faces to be on camera. Go on.

I was inside the trial, sitting in the front row and the judge was very fair. Now the Crown Prosecution Service tried to slip in, in the third condition of bailment, a very sneaky provision which would have effectively barred anyone, whether it's Tommy or not, from discussing the trial. Now that was very sneaky because it effectively curtailed free speech, and the judge took the Crown Prosecution Service to task hard, saying effectively it would end free speech in the UK. Now the Crown Prosecution Service, Mr. Holt kind of quivered and made a bunch of hubbub about it but eventually yielded to the judge because it was just so

tyrannical. Now the three conditions of Tommy's release are number one he's not allowed to contact any of the witnesses, number two he's not allowed to dox any of the witnesses, and then number three he's not allowed to contact any of the witnesses. Number two, he's not allowed to dox any of the witnesses. And then number three, he's not allowed to release any specific information that would prejudice the trial that's upcoming, apart from discussing who the attorneys are, who the judge is, and the dates, which was very fair and normal. All in all, when I spoke to Tommy, he said he was relieved and optimistic. His next appearance will be 3 July for a pre-trial hearing with a jury trial expected on 7 July 2025.

Nice, well done. What did you ask him? It's a brilliant independent reporting there from Resistance GB, but the drama hadn't finished because Tommy Robinson and some of his supporters, including Liam Tafts, went for a steak after the court decision, which you'd think in a free country would be no issue. They went to a popular steakhouse chain in central London called Hawksmoor and Gurumit Singh posted immediately after the lunch just been kicked out of Hawksmoor Steakhouse for no reason literally just had our starters and there was video of this actually happening

watch of this actually happening watch So if you've got any questions about that, you need to email him directly. He doesn't have a address. Yeah. Don't worry about this first round of drinks. It's on me. But I'm very sorry. I hope it's on you. I'm too worried about the fucker. Hold on. Hold on.

Get another one. Get down with me. We've been kicked out of the steakhouse. Fuckin' hell. Have you seen that? Have you seen that? We've just been kicked out of the steakhouse. We've sat here for a fucking hour.

This is Liam's fucking problem.'re sat here with the celebrities. Fork, Sakes, Quokk'n'L. They're uncomfortable serving us. Good God. Shame on you Hawksmoor. Shame on you. This is the state that we are now in, in the United Kingdom, where a completely innocent man, who has not been found guilty of a single thing, is unable to go for a quiet lunch with his mate. And it's this type of snowflake culture, anti-free speech culture, which absolutely makes me sick. So look, we've got so much to pick up on here with our superstar panel, Alexandra Marshall, online editor of The Spectator Australia, and Professor Norman Fenton, author of Fighting Goliath. Norman was at the court today. So Norman, first, can we just talk about that extraordinary interaction between Tommy Robinson and the independent journalists and the mainstream

media? It was quite a face-off. What was it like? Yeah, I mean Tommy was brilliant. He was in, you know, great fighting mood. And the key point, it's always been really about free speech and the fact that censorship by the mainstream media of his voice, his narrative, has created the environment whereby you get those ridiculous idiots who own Hawksmoor, you know, stopping him from having a meal there. The interview, the interesting thing, there's a couple of really interesting things which maybe need to be emphasized here. That American guy who you just showed being interviewed by the Resistance UK independent media, he gave a very,

very good actually summary of what the judge said about the attempted attempts by the Crown Prosecution Service to limit Tommy Robinson's free speech about this case. The key thing is, you said at the beginning, they were talking about it being that he didn't allow the gagging order., basically it was about a gagging order against Tommy Robinson from speaking about the case, right? But it was much more than that. The state, the Crown Prosecution Service, actually wanted to make it illegal to be contempt of court for even third parties to talk about the case on social media. I, if they did, even if they had nothing to do with Tommy Robinson, he would have been held in contempt

of court. And the really critical thing about this, and it's another thing that most people don't understand about the previous case, why he was in prison over the release of the documentary Silenced, is that originally he was charged with contempt of court not because he showed that film at that big rally last July but because it already been released by a third party over whom he had no control in the USA so on the basis being released by a third party against Tommy's wishes, he was issued with that, the warrant for arrest over with in regards to the contempt of court case. It was only after that, it was only after that, that he decided, well, he's going to

be imprisoned anyway, he might as well show it to everybody, to the, to the hundred thousand people in Trafalgar Square for that rally. So that, that's an important important point which very few people understand. So they were trying to do the same thing here. And it is a very important point. I absolutely agree. Alexandra Marshall, what do you make of Tommy Robinson saying, look, I'm just going to start exposing the mainstream media here. I mean, he describes them as a cancer on the United Kingdom and says that the independent media is the cure. What do you think of his strategy today?

Well, I've actually had the privilege of interviewing Tommy Robertson several times on my show. Not for the faint-hearted live, let's say that, he has an attraction toward all things dangerous legally. But what he does is he speaks the sort of truth that publications and politicians are absolutely terrified. So even though The Spectator is one of the oldest, if not the oldest publication in the English-speaking world, a very fond of citizen journalism and online media. In fact, I believe it is probably the most important revolution in truth and journalism that we've had in a century. And it's in the true spirit of journalism. So without social media's independent journalism,

Tommy Robinson and his story and what he tried to say would have been dead and buried long ago because the politicians would have put pressure on the publications to hide everything that he had to say about modern politics. Instead, he's able to do things like release his documentaries, of which I watched his latest one just before this show. And frankly, I am astonished. I'm astonished that that story is not on every mainstream newspaper in Australia right now. And yet the name Tommy Robinson isn't trending anywhere,

except on social media, where people are allowed to speak and citizen journalists exist. And it just shows you this enormous divide between what people want to say and what people are allowed to say. Now, Toby Robinson, I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say with what your conditions of the conditions of his court are, but basically he was saying something very fair and trying to get journalists to understand the position that he's been put in, and just a fraction of the life that he leads because of his decision to be an actual journalist instead of a pretend news headline writer and clickbait follower, which is what pretty much outfits like the Daily Mail have become.

100%. Absolutely. But you are so right, Alexandra Marshall, to point out the limitations that we all face. Because what this terrible government and its despicable, corrupt justice system has proven is that they will now go after journalists for contempt of court. They will hide behind contempt of court to shut down independent journalists. And by the way, if you cross their line, and it's a line that shifts all the time, depending on where from the political spectrum you are, you could end up in jail. You could end up in solitary confinement for seven months like Tommy Robinson. So we do have to be honest that there is no free

speech in this country. It isn't like the United States of America where we can talk about an active court case. And that's why Tommy Robinson is completely right today to use the name Axel Rudekibana when he's talking about this, because I'm sorry, Norman Fenton, we still don't know the truth about Axel Rudekibana. We still don't know the full truth. It was me via Tommy Robinson that revealed that Axel Rudekibana is a Muslim. He is a practicing Muslim behind bars at Belmarsh Prison. Anytime I watched the mainstream media, the fake news agents the other day were saying, well, the thing is Axel Rudekibana wasn't a Muslim. That was fake news. So it's like there are so many facets to this lawfare against Tommy Robinson. Yeah.

And I think that, I mean, that whole Axel Rudd and Kibana case, I mean, that was so completely bizarre the way he suddenly pleaded guilty. So they didn't actually, you know, the public never got the trial to find out what it was really all about. It was a very convenient way for the government to completely cover up that story I mean got now going back to this whole thing about Not just the sensitive of the censorship of Tommy Robinson's voice, but the Demonization of anybody who is in any way associated with him. I mean, I'm proud to say that I'm the only Academic in the UK let alone professor in the UK, who's

actually supported Tommy because of his acting. Go you! Yes, Norman Fenton, I love it. I'm, I'm, of course, I was already cancelled because of my work on, you know, on the, the Covid My work challenging the Covid now. And that's before we even get to Lucy Letbe. So you're cancelled multiple times. That's how I met the lovely Norman. We're all cancelled.

We've got nothing more to lose, right? But I want to tell you something, really, I've actually, as we've been speaking, you've been given some latest news, I've been speaking, but my mate Harry Markham, who you interviewed last week in this office, because you'll probably recognize it, he sent me an incredible piece of information, right? At the trial with me today, I was with, I was with, um, Nayak Ghorbani, the, you know, the well-known Iranian dissident who's also got massive lawfare against him because he simply stood up to the Hamas terrorists and Emily Schrader, well-known Israeli-American journalist who's come over here for a week. So we were together and after Tommy came out, Emily wanted to have a photo taken with Tommy and she put

that photo up on her social media page. There are now, I'm not going to mention the name of the people, there are now senior academics who claim to be advocates of free speech and all this sort of stuff, who are demanding that Emily Schrader should now be cancelled because she was photographed with Tommy Robinson. Wow, it is utterly appalling and that is cancel culture. It really, really is. appalling and that is cancel culture. It really, really is. Now, a reminder, if you were just joining us, Zia Youssef, the Reform UK chairman has resigned while we have been on air. More reaction coming in. This was the guy who I was looking forward to seeing most. Rupert Lowe, who remember Zia Youssef reported to the police for hurty words, has now gone public. And let me just get to his tweet. That is what he replied to see you, which is quite

funny to see you use of tweet, but he has actually also tweeted himself on this writing. Zia Youssef gone. The question is, how did a man with no political experience be given such vast power within reform? A deeply unpleasant individual who at every stage was protected and promoted by Faraj. Why? When he made false allegations about me, why was he supported? Why did the leadership rally around him despite them all knowing it was entirely malicious? Why did they allow him to weapon despite them all knowing it was entirely malicious? Why did they allow him to weaponize the criminal justice system against me?

Youssef, supported by Faraj and others, tried to put me in prison on false allegations. They deployed woke lawfare to silence a party colleague, followed by a collective decision to back the man who made the false police complaint. I stood up to them and thankfully I am a free man. My legal action continues against Reform Youssef and Anderson. Youssef was the driver but he was given the keys by Farage. I again call on the party and specifically Farage to do the right thing and apologize for their malicious witch hunt. And I would argue that is the least that Reform UK could do.

But then we get the response from the pro-Reform crowd who yet again are going to be telling us nothing to see here, no big deal, just forget about it all. Isabel Oakeshott has posted many asking what's going on with Reform UK. It's simple, the party is creating a political earthquake along the way, there will be casualties, including people who have been hugely valuable to what is a gargantuan effort. Okay. We've got to have some fun on a big news day and let me tell you the reaction to yesterday's Meghan Markle moon bump hospital twerking, which also broke while we were live on air,

has ricocheted around the world. So I'm going to get the reaction I'm gonna put them through it Norman Fenton and Alexandra Marshall in just one minute. I promise you you're gonna want to see this. But first being sleep deprived makes you perform as poorly as someone legally drunk. These deficits include slowed reaction times, reduced working memory, impaired decision making and poor emotional regulation. Poor sleep is also a strong predictor of early death and it's actually as strong a predictor of early death as smoking. In fact, people

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first order. Try evening bean tonight and wake up feeling refreshed tomorrow. That's evening.ver.so slash Outspoken and use the coupon code Outspoken at checkout to save 15%. But now back to the show. Developing today. It was the slut job that ricocheted around the world for all the wrong reasons. Megyn Markle believed that she would finally put to rest the ongoing, and I believe very accurate speculation that she had been wearing a moon bump. This is a subject which has of course been covered here on Outspoken for many, many months, because when you think about it, it matters. Given that if these children were not born by Meghan Markle's body,

then they are unable to sit in the line of succession, the royal line of succession. We're talking about Prince Archie and Princess Lilybeth, of course. Then this video, and let's take a look at some of it, because this video has horrified so many, because Megan quite clearly, quite clearly here is in some type of moon bump. This is not a natural body position. That's before you even get to the fact that this type of behaviour is not dignified, is certainly not royal, shames the monarchy, makes a complete mockery of King Charles, and I think also means the public have had enough. And you can imagine, since we first revealed this video on last night's show, the reaction around the world has been extraordinary.

Piers Morgan posted on X, we're about two months away from the sex tape. And what I have found particularly fascinating over the last 24 hours is that members of the mainstream media have started to get in contact with me, have started to say, oh, Dan, you might be onto something here. is there any reason why she would lie about this bump yeah yeah there really is catch up we're gonna get analysis with our superstar

panel Alexandra Marshall and Norman Fenton in just one moment but first I want to show you some of the fascinating mainstream media reactions as the penny drops, as the penny drops, that actually this so-called internet conspiracy theory may well finally bring down Meghan Markle and Prince Harry. First, Kevin O'Sullivan and Isabelle Oakeshott. Megan there is that a real baby bump or has she strapped it on? She's got form for strapping on baby bumps so what do you think as you see it? I think there's something very wrong with that shape in my view. I don't know, I'm mesmerized but really I'm kind of sick. Do you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking why the Queen is no longer with us because oh my lord how she would be shuddering those images.

It's so undignified. I don't know, call me old-fashioned but I'm finding that quite uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable. I don't think because she's done this before for photos. I don't think that is a real baby bump. It's way too big. It's way too big. And sort of too low. Next, our very own P Dina. She comes out with this video of her in the hospital room apparently getting ready to give labor to this child, Lily. Now, first of all, there's a few things I have to say about this video. Okay, looking at this video, the first thing that comes to mind is that that stomach is too big. It's too big. I saw I showed it to my husband and he was like, it looks like she's giving birth to triplets. I'm like, yeah, whose belly is that big?

Okay, now she's she's clearly doing this because she's trying to prove to the mainstream media because now they're starting to talk about this. This whole birth being fictitious coming from Megan. So she's trying to put out there to the haters. Look, it is me giving birth, see see I'm in the hospital dancing like a skank. I couldn't believe I saw her dancing like this. I'm sorry to call her that word, but she is. You're a duchess. Who does this? Who behaves like this? Who is supposedly pregnant? Sit y'all duchess a sausage butt down. What

are you doing dancing all provocatively supposedly pregnant in that big fake looking bump? I'm sorry it doesn't even make sense. Then, Jeremy Kyle really went for it with Kinsey Schofield. Fresh from repeatedly telling us that they were escaping the United Kingdom because they wanted privacy they hated the press They hated everything to be involved in the intrusion in their lives And then they had their little children and the feral children and they left them with the chickens and all she does now With her jams that are crappies post pictures of her children left right and center which has me always thinking well Hold on a second you duplicitous woman woman how does that make any sense but we've now reached a

point where I possibly am going to be sick live on the television Megan Markle has posted a cringy video of her and Prince Harry dancing in a hospital room this is this we're playing it if you it... She's... She's waiting for the... She's twerking with the baby to try and make the baby cum. This is to induce Elizabeth's birth. She's... She's dancing in front of the camera. Oh god, it looks like a lap dancing club with pregnant women. He's also dancing in front of the camera. She's got a black dress on. She's literally holding her bump and twerking and she's put this on social media. The woman is ben- that's getting worse now, she looks like she's performing. Well and look, JK, the lyrics are prego but I'm still doing moves like Beyonce.

Yeah, I said I'm pregnant. Get the child support and pay my rent. Your opinion is irrelevant because I'm a baby mama. I can do what I want. And Jeremy Kyle went on to predict that he thinks this video will end up seeing Meghan Markle and Prince Harry divorce within the next year. Gosh, what is this? I mean, I think that they're going to do another reality show. I think that they are going to have to break down and continue to spill because I don't think that any of their commercial ventures are working. But this is not the way. This is not the path. I think she's being completely destructive to her own brand.

I think they split within 12 months. They are. I say he comes back to the United Kingdom, as I've said on numerous occasions with his ginger tail between his legs. I think she won't ever be able to come back to the United Kingdom. A huge amount of reaction online to Michelle Chismay wrote, so I am in healthcare and I noticed something. She's not a labor and delivery room. And I can tell from the back, according to Taz added, ladies and gentlemen, I think we can all agree that this ain't no duchess. Dear King Charles, I think it's time to seriously consider getting your council to have a chat with Parliament with regard to Harry's dukedom. Also, it's clearly time to remove them from the royal family website.

Nancy Sidley posted, I've got to give her credit. She's found a new level of cringe that the Kardashians have not even achieved. She has no idea that after the shock and awe wears off this video, her stock will continue to plummet. This kind of breaking the internet marketing never works. Just ask Kim Kardashian. I suspect they know the titles are close to getting stripped so they need to create a spectacle so the royal family will look

petty and not modern if the titles are removed. These two are broke allegedly and the office of Glynnegane said alongside this photo odd place for the cannula as well and keeping a watch on. Okay Norman Fenton, Alexandra Marshall, that's the setup but guys can we just watch this video in full? Can you put up with that because I think you've got to see the full horror of it before you comment. Is that okay? horror of it before you comment. Is that okay do that, baby, mama. Drop, drop, drop, drop. Drop and, drop, down, down, up. Drop, drop, drop, drop. Drop and, drop, down, down, up. Drop, drop, drop, drop. Drop and, drop, down, down, up. Drop to the baby mama when I step out on the floor.

One month, two months, three months, oh. Hit the baby mama when I'm stepping through the door. Yeah, I'm pregnant, but I got an ill flow. Trying to make some money, buy some huggies from the store. S to the T-A, double R-K prepare for the full slut drop. Oh no, first there's some sex simulation. And there we go, and the bump just sort of disappears. Norman, thank you. Okay, Norman Fenton, like from your professional perspective, is that something that someone who is nine months pregnant and

overdue can really do? There's a lot of doubt about this. I normally say I don't speculate on medical matters, but this does really seem very unlikely now. But I mean, for a start, I mean, you should have warned me about this because you'd really put me off my dinner, which I was going to have. I'm sorry, I didn't want you to refuse to come on. The thing is I've got a theory about this. My theory, and this is actually genuine, I think that the two of them have been so protected by the mainstream media because of their, basically their woke narrative fits in exactly what the mainstream media wants to portray.

You know they've never got the criticism they deserve what the mainstream media wants to betray. You know, they've never got the criticism They deserve from the mainstream media the people who criticize them are, you know in our kind of you know In our kind of bubble really you'd be a man In fact, you'd be amazed and this is what I'm gonna come on to that I actually checked out on this dogs us when you said that we're gonna be discussing this I checked out what it was all about and actually in the mainstream media. They're not they're not talking about this They're actually putting up stuff which is praising Meghamle for something else she's into I'm not kidding you But this is here's my theory my theory is that because of that because of that protection

They've been afforded by the mainstream media, but they're so out of touch With what the regular people believe that I think they saw this as being a genuinely brilliant thing to do. And now my belief is that if the reaction is as bad as some of those that you suggested there, if people really do actually see this, if this gets out to the masses and to the mainstream media can't avoid how ridiculous this is, I wouldn't be surprised if they start then putting out the hypothesis that some of this was AI generated. Indeed, because how can we know that it's not, given that this clearly is not a bump that at all looks like a human pregnant bump.

Alexandra Marshall, what do you make of this video? at all looks like a human pregnant bump. Alexandra Marshall, what do you make of this video? Listen, Dan, my friend, when you invited me on this show, you didn't say you're going to traumatize me. I am an ambassador for the Australian, the constitutional monarchy. So what you are doing is subjecting me to my worst nightmare, which is every argument possible for the Republicans. Thank goodness that our current Labour Party lost their last referendum so badly, they're too scared to ask any more questions.

Otherwise this video would be playing on repeat. But basically with this whole meagre market thing, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. They were so desperate to be the victims of the press. That's exactly what Harry's gone out and done. And they pretend to want privacy and to be left alone and respect. And then they go and drop something like this, which I mean, I know she's not the brightest, most in touch person in the world, but even she would know that this video is going to attract all the wrong kinds of attention.

And you can't tell me it's got nothing to do with the timing of this release, which you would have thought would be around the time of the birth, not years later. It's because they've had such a monumental failure with their products and their services online that their attention seeking money revenue streams are drying up. And so this is like a last ditch bottom of the barrel effort. You said, will it bring her down? She's got to get off the floor before you bring it back down again. I mean, there's nowhere for her to go and they're not and she's not going to divorce

him by the way. She will she will cling on for as long as physically possible because all those contracts are pretty much ironclad with the crown. So she's going to keep it together, but it's just, it's painful, Dan, why am I here? Well, it is painful. But let me just ask though, in your role as a supporter of the constitutional monarchy in Australia, which of course is one of the countries, I guess, that the British royal family fear most in terms of at some point pushing this Republican

agenda. I mean, you had that referendum at the end of the 90s or early noughties, whenever it was. Surely, the best thing that Charles and William could do now is actually say enough enough We've got to strip you of the titles that would actually I think be such a popular move Around the world now because it's not going to damage the monarchy stripping them of their titles I think it would only enhance the monarchy Alexander because these two are now so deeply unpopular. But for me, there's something quite grim about the fact that they're carrying on like this while remaining sort of connected to the royal family in some way. Well, I don't there's a couple of things there.

I don't feel particularly sorry for them, but it'd be nice if their children were allowed to reach adulthood before they lost their titles, because they might be perfectly normal, lovely people who were good for the royal family. And I do feel sorry for those kids because they have such a wonderful history and a wonderful inheritance. And you don't want to make monarchies smaller than they already are when there's so many of these problems that can go wrong. But as far as Australia goes, it's a bit weird because we have such terrible politicians

that nobody wants to give politicians more power. So as weird as all this theater is, the idea of giving Albanese absolute power is more scary than that video, which is saying something. But we also were a little bit removed. So when we think about the monarchy, Australians view Kate and William and all their lovely children. That's the monarchy. We kind of ignore King Charles. We just sort of endure him. But we view that as the monarchy. And this is a celebrity sideshow, which we've kind of put into a different box of entertainment. It's on the Daily Mail, and that's where it stays.

So I don't know, it doesn't really concern us as anything other than click bait, but they are certainly not setting a good example for the incredible institution and the important democratic institution that they represent. No, they're really not. And I do agree with you about the need to keep the royal family as big as possible. Certainly not this idea of a massively stripped down monarchy. I just don't think these children necessarily should be part of it because we do not have proof that Meghan Markle actually gave birth to them. And that is a legal requirement. Now I think there are other

ways that the royal family could be boosted in the United Kingdom, Norman Fenton. There are other parts of the family actually that are really beloved by the public. I mean look at Zara Phillips and Mike Tindall for example, the daughter and son-in-law of Princess Anne. What about the Edinburgh's? You know, Sophie, who has become, I mean, she was a favourite of the Queen. She's got two children that want to play a role. So too do Prince Andrew's daughters, Princess Eugenie and Princess Beatrice. So I would rather see those people be boosted by Charles and William rather than hanging on to this crass undignified, actually just revolting behavior by Meghan and Harry, who by the way remember just this week Norman, the Mail on

Sunday report that Prince Harry is in discussions with Charles Spencer, Diana's sister about potentially losing the royal last name and going back to being a Spence. Well okay then goodbye, goodbye Harry. Like you know at some point you can't keep hanging on to this. Look I absolutely agree with what you're proposing there but I actually think that we're all, I mean I'll accuse you of misunderstanding the extent to which we are in a kind of a bubble Outside the mainstream media here because as you as we were watching this I actually clicked I actually did a search Google search for Latest news on on Meghan Markle. Yes, and what do you get top stories?

Meghan Markle celebrates little bits fourth birthday on Instagram Meghan shares video of her and Harry dancing before she give birth to Libet. I mean celebrates Lidlbet's 4th birthday on Instagram. Megan shares video of her and Harry dancing before she gave birth to Lidlbet. I mean, there is nothing critical here. You have to dig deep before you see the critical stuff. And the point is about what you actually said there. Amongst the woke out there, who of course the ones represented in the mainstream media, Megan Markle is the most popular royal. I'm not kidding you. You get this. Whenever I speak to woke friends, she is the royal that they most admire. They still consider her royal.

That's saying something. It's an unbelievable challenge we've got here. We do. And I think again, it stresses the importance of the independent media actually, because you know, Camilla Tomani wrote a piece about this today for the Daily Telegraph and I just replied to her saying, you haven't even mentioned the fact that no one believes that this is a real bump, like surely at least mention it, at least mention it. But look, you two, oh my goodness, what a shift you've put in for me today. Thank you so much for dealing with all of this breaking news. Alexandra Marshall, I don't even want to know, don't even tell me what time it is there because I'll feel so

guilty, but Alexandra Marshall is of course the online editor of The Spectator Australia. She has lots of exciting things planned though in the months to come and I really look forward to talking to you about them very very soon Alexandra and of course Professor Norman Fenton making a return visit to Outspoken after being at court today with Tommy Robinson but Norman you know I love you and please come back very very soon thank you both so much. Now you can imagine that the live chat's been going mad today because so much has been going on but But the single mom entrepreneur says, I'm sure Farage can get another financial heavy hitter to replace Zia Youssef. Absolutely. I mean, Nick Candy is

the treasurer of the party. Would he be a good chairman? I think there's lots of potentials. Rogal Dawn writes, nice with Zia resigning, then bring back Rupert Lowe to reform. He's incredibly popular and speaks for a lot of us and curse says, the curse 10 says Zia Youssef mission accomplished. He helped ruin reform and a lot of people are going to think that that he was put in place for that damage to be caused. Now it's time to reveal today's greatest Britain and union jackass, your nominees, Meghan Markle nominated by Kizzy Politics for that totally fake bump in that disgraceful video, Piers Morgan nominated by Warning Shout for thundering his way into debates to suit his own rhetoric and viewing figures, and Zia Youssef nominated by Mick Cass and we know what's happened with Zia Youssef over

the course of the show today Here are the results in third place with 17% Piers Morgan The runner-up with 28% of your vote Meghan Markle, but today's Union Jackass the newly resigned Reform UK chairman Zia Youssef and And connected to that is today's greatest Britain nominated by Jane Kendrick. It's Sarah Pochon, who absolutely tongue tied Stama with that question about the Birkeban, which has of course led to the departure of Zia Youssef. Oh my goodness, we're going to have so much more on this on the show tomorrow, so make sure you are with us. But we're not going anywhere because Lady Colin Campbell is joining me over on Substack www.outspoken.live for much, much more on Bump Gate.

But please do join me again tomorrow, 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hit subscribe right now on YouTube and Rumble and most importantly I promise to keep fighting for you.