Dan Wootton Outspoken - REFORM UK EXCLUSIVE AS NIGEL FARAGE HITS BACK AT CRITICS & RICHARD TICE SPEAKS ON SCANDAL

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

How does Reform UK intend to transform from an insurgent political force based around the charisma and historic energy of Brexit King Nigel Farage to a genuine political party ready to take control of the UK from Downing Street in 2029 or before? And what is the actual plan to make Nigel Farage Prime Minister? In his Digest, Dan explores the massive opportunity that is all there for the taking for Reform UK as they gather for their first conference in Birmingham since five MPs entered Westminster and they won millions of votes in the game changing 2024 general election. Then Reform UK deputy leader Richard Tice joins Outspomen for an in-depth interview to answer all the criticism of his party, including from the right. How are they preparing for power? Why was Ben Habib axed as Deputy Leader? Was it really down to that Julia Hartley Brewer interview about stopping the boats in the Channel? Or something more sinister? Did Nigel Farage boot him out of his job as leader? And is the party actually going to ban all supporters of Tommy Robinson, even those folk who simply attended the Uniting the Kingdom march Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavors. So, what should we talk about no sugar added neutral refreshingly simple no spin no bias no censorship i'm dan walton this is outspoken live episode number 56. And to support our brand new independent news venture, hit subscribe right now. Turn on your notification bells too. So how does Reform UK intend to transform from an insurgent political force

based around the charisma and historic energy of Brexit King Nigel Farage to a genuine political party, ready to take control of the UK from Downing Street in 2029 or before. And what is the actual plan to make Nigel Farage Prime Minister? Well, in my digest next, I'll explore the massive opportunity that is all there for the Taking for Reform UK as they gather for their first conference in Birmingham since five MPs entered Westminster and they won millions of votes in that game-changing general election. Then Reform UK Deputy Leader Richard Tice joins me for an in-depth exclusive interview to answer all the criticism of his party, including from the right. So how are they preparing for power?

Why was Ben Habib Axter's deputy leader? Was it really down to that Julia Hartley Brewer interview about stopping the boats in the channel or something more sinister? Did Nigel Farage boot him out of his job as leader? And is the party actually going to ban supporters of Tommy Robinson, even just those folk who simply attended the Uniting the Kingdom march? You can register to join Outspoken right now at www.outspoken.live. It is a safe space, free of censorship, and your support at just £5 a month not only gives you extra content every weekday, it also allows me to continue making this independent daily news show. But now, let's go! So can Nigel Farage become Prime Minister by 2029?

A lot of people said I was crazy when I predicted this outcome before a single vote was cast in the 2024 election that resulted in the decimation of the failing Conservative Party and an unenthusiastic vote to send the corrupted and lying two-tier Keir Starmer into number 10. After less than three months of this absolute shower of champagne socialist shit delivered by Labour, you know, let World War II veterans freeze while a billionaire donor buys his wife designer clothes, I have actually never been more convinced that this will be a failed one-term administration. A senior Conservative donor told me the other day that they genuinely believe Slippery Star Mall will be the first British Prime Minister to be airlifted from Downing Street for his own safety. Now that might be hyperbole, but the hypocrisy that we've seen from our new

leader is genuinely astonishing, not to mention his decision to shut down any discussion, even about legitimate concerns of illegal immigration as far-right snake oil. That's rubbish, of course, but Starmer can only keep the lid on this bubbling anger by locking up folk who sent angry Facebook or X posts for so long. And this is why Reform UK is coming for Labour. As even The Spectator, an organ of the Conservative Party that campaigned forcefully against reform and Farage at the election, acknowledged this week. So they said that when this year's election campaign began, 40% of the country did not know what reform was. So Farage sees his 4.1 million votes as a fraction of what might come with more awareness. And I think he's right.

So the Spectator said, With Labour already polling below 30% and Keir Starmer's personal poll ratings plummeting, the opportunity is clear. A poll by JL Partners suggests that one in four Labour voters is considering backing reform. And Farage told the Spectator, quote, if they come to us, that's half the number needed to win the next election. But the biggest questions facing Reform UK as its members gather in Birmingham today for its first conference since five MPs entered Westminster may well be how to keep its base happy. Deputy Leader Ben Habiba, favourite of the grassroots, was brutally sacked after the election in a decision that infuriated many

members. Tommy Robinson supporters being purged from the party, as are good, honest candidates who are having, hope not hate, conduct offence archaeology on their expos, sometimes from over a decade ago. And then this week, Nigel, in an interview with GB News pushing him towards right-wing policies, turned on the idea of mass deportations. It's a political impossibility to deport hundreds of thousands of people. We simply can't do it. At the moment, it's a political impossibility. But is it your ambition? No. I'm not going to get dragged down the route of mass deportations or anything like that. People are always going to come and go. And we are a country that's engaged in international trade.

And we have relationships around the world through the commonwealth etc um but yeah we have to aim at a balanced migration policy but net zero still means hundreds of thousands of people coming into britain immigrants coming into britain isn't that too many i know it may well be but we have to start somewhere as trump says in america that wants mass deportations. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are in Britain at the moment. Some estimates say the number could even be in, you know, a million plus. So do you support deporting all of those people? It's impossible to do. Literally impossible to do. In terms of the atmosphere in Britain,

are you concerned that there is a rising level of anti-white hatred? I'm just concerned about a deeply divided society. But as true conservative media boss Chris Davies posted on X, having finally got immigration to the top of the political agenda, Nigel Farage has come up short. Sit on the fence and all you get is splinters in your backside. No ambiguity from you, Kip. Start the deportations. 10,000 foreign criminals for starters. Now, in that interview, which, as I say, has proved controversial,

he also backed away from the concept of demographic change being a concern. Do you think that immigration represents a major threat to Britain from a demographic perspective? So in the last 20 years, the white British population has declined from 87% to 74%. Is that a concern of yours? No, that's not a concern of mine. What is a concern of mine is in many cases the lack of integration. We see that writ large by the new kind of politics that's emerging, sectarian voting along religious lines. I never really thought I'd see that in England in my lifetime. Now the popular young Conservative commentator, Connor Tomlinson, said of that, Nigel Farage tells Stephen Edgington that demographic change caused by immigration

is, quote, not a concern of mine. It is a concern for young men most inclined to support you, Nigel. England is not just an idea and new arrivals have no inclination how to assimilate. Now, I think it's important that the right stays united and I am concerned by how quickly folk have turned on Farage.

At the same time, Nigel needs to realise that some hope is required and also serious ambition to turn this country around. Mass deportations are not just being considered by Trump now, but European states turning to the right too. And with Maloney in Italy, Le Pen in France, the AFD in Germany, and Reform UK in Britain in power, which look, I think is highly possible, highly possible by the end of the decade, there would be a chance to change

the game by bringing back populist leaders serving who I call the silenced majority and not the elites. So there is everything to play for. To discuss the plan to put Reform UK and Downing Street in depth, let me bring in the party's deputy leader Richard Tice for our uncancelled interview. Richard Tice, really good to see you. You know I always start with the difficult question, maybe the most important question I'd say in this case. Can Nigel Farage be Prime Minister in 2029? Definitely. And that's the plan. That's the ambition, the objective. And some remarkable work is going on at the moment, building the professionalism of the party, taking it to the next stage which I'm delighted about we've got 150 plus branches

established more happening as every day every week goes on it's hard to keep up with the numbers but it's it's it's truly remarkable the the pace the ambition and it's very exciting. It is so of course conference today it is remarkable I think remarkable is the word given that in your initial plans the election wouldn't have even taken place by this point so what you had to do in such a short period of time was a mammoth mission but in the end I think it's almost worked out for the best because it's not just about numbers is it I think what reform UK have proven in a very short time is actually if you utilize social media in the right way if you're loud and proud you can make a huge impact at Westminster and It actually shows how lazy and useless

a lot of the MPs for the Uni Party really are. That's the point. I mean, I've spoken now some, almost about over 15 times in just, I think, four or five weeks parliamentary time. And you have to sort of work it out and judge it. And sometimes you have to sit there for ages bobbing up and down. But the social media clips from that are absolutely huge. That's what we're really, really good at. And people can see that

we're active. We're making a noise. We're asking the challenging, difficult questions that, bluntly, the two main parties, particularly around issues like net zero, they're obsessed about. They don't want to talk about and the Labour Party doesn't want to talk about immigration. So, yeah, I think we're making a huge noise. We may be five in number, but I think we're making the noise of 50 to 100, frankly, already. You are. I feel at the moment like reform uk is the moral opposition and you know the issue for me richard that really clarified that it was after the southport massacre because no major politician in the main parties wanted to discuss what my

viewers were talking about what what I was thinking about every single minute of the day, what the silence majority was horrified about. And even now, Richard, we are still made to feel as if we are far right as Slippery Starmer keeps on staying or racist just to want to have a necessary conversation about the perils of mass immigration, this ongoing invasion of our southern border. And it was after Southport, I think, where you could see the impact that Reform UK will have in this parliament. Because yes, you were absolutely shot down by the mainstream media. Nigel Farage became the number one target, predictably, but you were still speaking out. But let's be clear, Dan. But let's be clear, the mainstream media and the Labour Party,

they were looking for the slightest opportunity. But we immediately condemned the riots and the hideous acts that went on but you can criticize and condemn whilst also acting as a critical friend asking important questions and what happens if if politicians don't ask important questions then speculation runs riot and runs a mock, I should say, underground. It's a bit like boxing, for example, as a sport is much better as a regulated professional sport than those who want to ban it, in which case it's done underground. And there's many other examples like that. So being able to ask questions, which is all Nigel did, and it's all I've done, in terms of when these incidents happen, we should be told very quickly the truth about who is the, if someone has been arrested, we should be told the truth about it. And I think there is a genuine concern that that may not be the case and we still don't know we still don't know and this is what infuriates me it's the cycle isn't it tragedy happens in that

moment we are told don't be angry if you're angry or if you ask questions at this moment you're somehow impeding on the grief of the people who are involved which is absolutely not the case i mean i think about those three little girls who were bludgeoned to death at a taylor swift dance class every day they have never left my mind and i'm sure they haven't left your mind or my viewers minds completely completely but it's about why it happens and the problem is then the man in question axel is charged and by that point we're told well if you talk about this or if you find anything out he's not going to have a fair trial and actually you can be held of held in contempt of court you can go to jail certainly i can if i was to talk about the circumstances surrounding him on this show today you might be able to in parliament but

it's very difficult isn't it because then by the time he's in court it's two years on and most people let's be by that point forgotten let's be clear what's going on here the the establishment wants to shut down analysis discussion and debate about the level of criminality from those who come to this country, whether it be legally or illegally. And whereas in other countries in Europe, they actually, they analyze and publish this data by nationality and by legality. Whereas this country country there is a deliberate process of cover-up and suppression of the data and and why do you think that is if the data was no problem it would be out there i think we've got a we've got to accept that there is a problem here and i for example whenever

there's a horrific incident a violent incident a stabbing with whatever weapon, machete or whatever, we saw the incident with the soldier in the uniform soldier just a few weeks ago. And every time it is it's not terror, it's mental health. It's not terror, it's mental health. How do they know so quickly that I'm sorry, but I want to ask the question, that I want to be told the truth and the British people have a right to be told the truth? We ask that question and maybe it is every time an extraordinary coincidence that it's always mental health. And maybe, I mean, you could legitimately say anybody that tries to stab and kill someone is mad.

And that's a legitimate line. But we all know that the truth is deeper than that. And we have to be able to talk about it. I just think that's really, really important. And there's another thing that really troubles me. We've talked a lot about two-tier policing, two-tier justice.

We've seen it big time. And when Nigel asked the question in Prime Minister's questions of the Prime Minister about two-tier policing, the Prime Minister completely ducked it, just avoided the question, didn't want to talk about it because the truth hurts. And we've got a situation now, for example,

I was the first person to defend the police officers who were brutally assaulted in Manchester airport. Those individuals who carried out that vicious, violent attack on police officers, to the best of my knowledge, they've still not been charged. Many weeks on, the video footage is crystal clear. It doesn't need a rocket scientist. It's as crystal clear as the video footage of the riots on which they arrested people, charged them and locked them up. Well, if they can do that for people who carried out those riots,

why can't they do the same when you've got the video footage for individuals that assault police officers? Assaulting a police officer, whether it's in a riot or whether it's in Manchester airport, is the same criminal act and should be dealt with in an equal way. We've got a more mad situation down now. The IOPC and the Greater Manchester Police leadership, what are they doing? They're actually carrying out a leak inquiry into who leaked the footage that exonerated 110% the police officers.

So in other words, they actually want to cover up the truth. They want to throw their own brave police officers trying to protect people, to save lives, to stop terror activity. They're literally trying to throw those police officers under a bus. And I have to tell you, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it feels to me that if you are from an ethnic minority and you carry out an assault on a police officer, you get different treatment

than if you are a white person that assaults a police officer. That is two-tier policing. That is two-tier justice. That will get me into all sorts of trouble from the lefty lot. But I'm just calling it out. I'm telling it as it is. We can see it.

Totally unacceptable. I mean, the problem is, Richard, we can see it every day. It does feel like after the so-called riots, there was a war on the working class, specifically the white working class. And that was driven by Starmer. And there's been so many examples of this. I mean, how on earth could Muhammad Hassan avoid jail altogether? Now, Richard, he is the Muslim man who saw three women at a petrol station, was furious about the fact that they were not dressed in traditional outfits, that they were dressed in a western manner, showing their ankles, for example, and he attacked them. He physically assaulted three

women at a petrol station brutally, and he escaped jail. At the same time, Richard, we see Julie Sweeney in prison for 15 months now this is the mother of three sorry grandmother of three actually she's a carer to her husband she made an artful Facebook post Richard it was an artful I don't support the Facebook post for one second it was on the day of the south port massacre she was absolutely emotional about what she had seen she deleted the post within an hour apologized unreservedly she's no risk to the public so we have julie sweeney in jail muhammad hassan who viciously beat up three women at a petrol station on the streets. It'll be interesting to other examples. I mean, that's a good example.

There was the example of, I think it was a Labour councillor who at a demonstration was calling for people's throats to be cut or to be killed, whatever he said. And so what's... He has pled not guilty, interestingly. Well, how can you plead not guilty to something that is plain there for everybody to see on video? I think we've actually got to have a proper discussion

about when you've got video evidence of somebody, in a sense, that is your evidence and and maybe you could have almost like a sort of a fast track to justice and a decision when you've got that because you don't need to take hundreds of witness statements and everything is there for all to see and what we do know is that fast justice is the right way forwards and proper sentencing and people serving the whole sentence, that serves as a deterrent. And in the same way that it's a deterrent to the ridiculous rioters, well, it can be a deterrent to other people who carry out criminality.

So let's have one rule for everyone, shall we, as opposed to different rules for different types of people from different communities different color skin and so on that's where we're at in the united kingdom now richard you mentioned just a moment ago and i think it is really worth taking a look at the moment last week when nigel farage went toe-to-toe for the first time in PMQs with Slippery Starmer, because it was a very direct question from Nigel. And there's two interesting things I think people should look out for, and I'll get you to react off the bat.

First, the reaction from Labour MPs the moment Nigel actually talks about two-tier policing. He's booed. And secondly, as you pointed out, the complete failure from Starmer to address the question in any way. craveable hot honey sauce, it's a sweet heat repeat you don't want to miss. Get your hot honey McCrispy today. Available for a limited time only at McDonald's. Nigel Farage. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we witnessed some extraordinary celebratory scenes outside Britain's prisons where in some cases serious career criminals were released. And this to make way for, yes, rioters, but equally those who've said unpleasant things on Facebook and elsewhere on social media. Does the Prime Minister understand there is a growing feeling of anger in this country

that we are living through two-tier policing and a two-tier justice system. I'm angry to be put in a position of having to release people who should be in prison because the last government broke the prison system. And the Prime Minister was repeatedly warned. He had his own release scheme. He was repeatedly warned that he had to adopt the scheme that we put in place. The former Justice Minister said, Roedd yn cael ei rhan o'i cynllun llwyddiant ei hun. Roedd yn cael ei gwybod yn gyflawniol bod yn rhaid iddo ddatblygu'r cynllun rydyn ni wedi'i roi yn ei le. Roedd y Prif Weinidog yn dweud, os nad ydym yn ei wneud, bydd rhaid i ni ddod i lawr ar ein cyffredin a gofyn. Roedd y Prif Weithredwr wedi gwneud hyn yn glir yn hollbwysig, yn y llythyr i'w ddweud cyn i'w ddweud yn cynnwys eu bod yn rhaid i'w gymryd cyd-draeth, yn dweud nad ydyn nhw'n gallu llwyddo'u ddewidion a'u bod yn dweud bod y risg yn llwyddo'r gallu i ddewid am ffuglion.

Mae hynny'n golygu, Brif, Mr Speaker, an inability to arrest people committing offences. That's how bad it was. And they warned the leader of the opposition that further delays until after the general election will increase the risk significantly. What did he do? He delayed and increased the risks. So, Richard, how long can Starmer go on not addressing immigration, not addressing two-tier policing, not addressing the invasion via the southern border? Well, firstly, Dan, what was interesting about the Prime Minister's response to Nigel's question there was, in a sense, Nigel said, do you do you understand Prime Minister people's concerns the

fact that the Prime Minister didn't answer the question actually provides the answer which is that he doesn't understand and even if he applied himself to it for a short moment he wouldn't want to understand and it's quite clear I asked the justice secretary just the day before why don't we release and immediately deport the some 10 000 foreign nationals blocking up our our jails and our prisons and she coughed and spluttered that well we was we were sort of doing that process well we're doing it in a match of hundreds but if if you released, sorry, if you deported 8,000 to 10,000 of those folk, not only do you free up all the spaces in prisons, but you save the British taxpayer billions of pounds.

And that would carry the support, I think, of millions of voters. But they don't seem willing and able to do that. They seem to have adopted a completely, in my view, misguided cop-out approach. I mean, I played that exchange on the show. I thought it was a brilliant question. And again, she didn't answer the question. She said, well, we are deporting people. They're not.

Quite obviously, they're not. And this is what's frustrating in the House of Commons that we're learning, is that so often, much of what is said good questions are asked and the response is completely ducked at the question but one or two different I think sort of exceptions to that rule when I asked a question of the Health Secretary where Streeting actually he responded constructively accurately to my question in a very clear way accepting some of the points that i was making so that's what it should be about as opposed to just ducking it and fibbing and waffling which we're getting and bluntly we're absolutely sick and tired already

of this sort of parrot mantra 14 years and a 22 billion black hole. I mean, there is some truth to the 14 years. They're not going to be able to use that for year after year. But as for this sort of black hole, frankly, I mean, that's a figment of the imagination of their union paymasters as they secured a massive pay increase for people with no requirements to improve productivity. And what, and what be very clear, Dan, what's happened here is that the government in their

sort of very short-sighted, easy soundbite to say, well, by accepting the pay demands, we've stopped the strike and that's cheaper than the strike going on. What they didn't realise is you've actually compounded on a sort of inflationary basis salary increases. You've unleashed a whirlwind of inflation busting salary demands from other elements of the public sector. And I fear that within a couple of years, we are going to be in a financially very difficult place. Indeed, I've been saying for some time my concerns about the economy, the lack of growth. And we've had evidence now where the growth, not only in June, but also in July, the last two months from the ONS, zero. Flat, niente, zip, no growth whatsoever.

So we can see the direction of travel we can it's utterly terrifying actually and i think richard the thing that has probably disturbed me most is that the solution that starmer has seemed to found to the problems that he quite clearly was suffering politically in the aftermath of the Southport massacre. Because I'll never forget, by the way, and I don't think many people talk about this because, of course, the mainstream media wants Starmer to be their hero. But do you remember, Richard, he turned up the day after in Southport and he was heckled by locals. And they were locals. They were furious. furious now that's a really bad news for a new prime minister but what starman's solution seems to be is censorship so there

is a crackdown now on free speech and your chairman uh zia yusuf who we'll talk about later actually but he wrote last week the so-style systematic persecution of his political enemies will be Starmer's legacy. He will be a one-term PM. They are very strong words. I actually agree with it. But how do you feel about the fact that Starmer seems to believe the solution is censorship? The solution is regulating the internet. The solution is finding a way,

using technicality about second jobs for MPs to boot Nigel Farage off GB News. Of course, I'm the guy that launched the word Starmageddon back in January at our press conference. Very good. And everybody's using it now. It was the Daily Mail comment sort of headline the other day. I think on one of their front pages.

The truth is, what we've actually got is Starmageddon on steroids. And it's worse than anybody's sort of possible fears. What you've just talked about, censorship, sort of authoritarian oppression, is classic socialism. And actually, he's shown incredible political naivety. Because if his response to the riots was to say, now, look, we don't do rioting in this country, we do lawful protests, it's completely unacceptable, you're going to face the consequences of the law rapidly and there's a separate point

the prime minister could have said which is we understand people are concerned about high levels of legal and illegal immigration and we're going to address them now if it adopted that approach and said that we don't do violence and rioting in this country and that that will be properly and robustly dealt with he'd have had been in a completely different political position, he'd have gained huge support and then if the response from the Chancellor when looking at the books was to say we've uncovered some numbers we're pretty uncomfortable with that's why I've delayed the budget till October the 30th, because we've really got to know what we're looking at here

and make sure that there's some proper growth in line. Again, rather than terrify 22,200 of my constituents and millions elsewhere in the country, they'd be in a completely different political place. And it's remarkable. People who've been around parliament and well advised as as you know some of the illegal advisors whether we like their policies or not are very competent smart people uh they would be in a completely different place it's uh it's

extraordinary yeah indeed it is okay i want to talk about Reform UK because it is your conference today. There's a huge amount of excitement around this party, but there are also challenges too. So before we look ahead, can we just look back a little bit to the election campaign? Now, you saw how much the mainstream media want to destroy your party and destroy your candidates as a result Richard you had to I guess throw people under the bus now do you think that was the right thing to do because I would argue having spoken to some of them that there were some of those candidates who maybe had expressed something inartfully on social media 10 years ago, but actually deserved to be stood by. And certainly some of the comments were no different to anything that I would have been saying on my GB News show or talk radio show in regards to the

World Economic Forum and that sort of thing. So I worry about this concept of offense archaeology. And I worry sometimes that actually the response is to immediately distance yourself from these people rather than saying, no, we stand by this person. We maybe don't agree with one of the comments that this person made on social media 10, 2, 5 years ago. Do you see the point that I'm making? I do, but I'm very clear, Dan. I could see the moment months ago when the press started to look at our candidates. I deliberately put the

candidates' names on the website because I wanted to see the sort of scrutiny that would come. And look, the right to free speech is a critical part of the democracy, and I'll defend that. But that actually doesn't give you the right

to stand for a political party that wants to make progress, that wants to get millions of people to vote for you. And, you know, so there are two different things there. And I think we've got to be open and honest about that. And you cannot defend the indefensible if you're asking people to look at you as a serious, credible political party and to get millions of people, as I say, to vote for you. So and I also wanted to set a marker for everybody else to understand where we're at. And I don't resolve from that one iota and we came under

a huge amount of scrutiny and look some some of it is ridiculous and if someone wrote or said something 15 years ago you get a longer sentence for uh you know for sort of saying or writing the wrong thing that length than you get for for murder frankly but that was the that was the level of scrutiny that we were coming in from but where are we coming at it from from basically some of the right-wing press i thought the daily mail's behavior during the campaign we knew it would be it would be rough but i thought it was reprehensible. They were completely outrageous. And I believe, I have information to believe that they were operating

in cahoots with hate not hope. I'm so sorry. Hope not hate. Whatever they're called. The most hateful charity in all the world.

Very ironic. The boss of whom, by the way, carried out the greatest act of misinformation for which he's had no sanction yes whatsoever that's another example yes exactly he claimed just in case people don't know this is a guy called nick lulz he claimed that there were acid attacks taking place against muslim women

during the so-called riots that directly resulted in violence on the streets and no arrest no consequence because he's on their side correct so we had that and look the media came in as hard what they didn't say in the the cause of even handedness even handedness during the campaign was that the green party had to withdraw the whip from 10 candidates no less less, during the campaign, which was more than we did. Oh yeah, and for by the way, the types of actions that their candidates were calling on resulted in effectively the call for Israel to be destroyed. So, you know, some of them, some of them calling for genocide to absolutely just totally two faced, bare faced, ridiculous bias from the media. So we had an onslaught. And, yeah, of course, we made mistakes.

Everybody does. We learn from them. That's why the actions of what's going on now in terms of taking it to the next level of professionalism or vetting of growth of branches is so important. And I'm massively supportive of all the great work that's being done by the team on that. OK, can I ask a very specific question, though, because I know a lot of my viewers will be wondering about this. So Tommy Robinson hosted the Uniting the Kingdom March, and it was a very peaceful event, and lots of folk went, and actually lots of Reform UK supporters went. There was no trouble whatsoever. Are you saying that if you attended that Tommy Robinson Uniting the Kingdom march, or maybe posted on X in support of that march, that you would not be able to stand for Reform UK in the future? I haven't said that, but we have a list of entities that if you've been a member of,

then that would prevent you from being a member of reform or standing. We're very robust on that. We want nothing to do with Tommy Robinson. And we want to aim to be a credible challenger, to be the next governing party. And that requires a level of hard work, professionalism

and credibility that we've never seen before from a party outside the main two. So that's where we are that's what we're doing, that's where we're going and we're not going to be hijacked by anybody in that ambition.

Because bluntly, this country is in serious trouble now. Oh, yes. A serious trouble. We are heading towards financial and social and cultural bankruptcy. So we have to present a very clear, bold, reforming alternative. And we get that right. It's not easy. We'll continue to make mistakes. But if we keep learning from them, try not to make them again, then I think we will gain more and more support as people see that the two main parties, their solutions are completely wrong. And just specifically on that, my hunch is the next election, whenever it is, will be a combination of an immigration and the net zero election.

Because if I'm right about the madness of net zero, the greatest financial axon of lunacy for this economy, then the energy bills won't be coming down. People's utility bills, heating bills, they won't be coming down and we'll be less competitive as a nation. And everybody will say, what's this all about? And let me tell you, when you go to other high-growth countries around the world,

whether it's in Asia or whether it's in the Middle East, like Abu Dhabi and Dubai, the Emirates, those places, high growth, the two words that bluntly are not mentioned, net zero. They're after growth. They're not focusing on cutting their nose off to spite their face. Whereas we are under what I believe is the most dangerous man in Britain, Ed Miliband, who I've come across robustly in the House of Commons a couple of times now, and we will continue to do so.

I genuinely think that... He's floating under the radar while literally bankrupting us yeah I think he's in our very faces bankrupting us I have to say it makes my blood pressure go up when I'm sitting in the chamber

and he's there ranting on and for a very very very few of us it's really only before who have stood up in that chamber and challenged them on this madness. I've challenged them twice now on steel, the fact that thousands of good steel jobs and communities, those jobs are being sacrificed on the altar of this religion of net zero and it's it's a catastrophe an absolute disaster for for them for their families their children their communities and our reliance on the ability to produce the

strongest virgin primary steel but that's no it is actually as much the fault of the tories as it is the labor bar well no it is and you know i it not zero. And I completely agree that at some point, this is going to be a huge issue for your party. Because if you look at the Conservative leadership candidates, not one of them has had the balls to actually say no to not zero. They have tried to say, oh, we maybe we'll do it in a safer way. No, no, no. You've just got to say no, which is something that Reform UK has done. Just one other issue looking back, Richard, I want to clear up the whole Nigel Farage becoming leader situation. Now, I've always been very clear and said publicly that you wanted Nigel to be leader because that is always what you'd told me,

quite frankly. You'd always been very open about the fact that you were desperate to bring him onto the campaign. But you know that there is this narrative out there that Nigel in some way ambushed you during the campaign and you weren't aware with what was going on. So do you just want to clear it up once and for all what actually happened. The likes of Andrew Pearce in the Daily Mail wrote a complete load of tripe, balderdash and garbage as part of the Mail's campaign to smear us. And frankly, what he wrote was just pure lie. But it was actually for months and months, literally.

I mean, since the back end of last year when Nigel came back from I'm a Celebrity, I'd been answering every question about what Nigel wanted to do. I said Celebrity, I'd been answering every question about what, you know, what Nigel wanted to do. I said, look, the more help you can give, the better. And I'd been urging him to come back. And I was delighted when, you know, when he sort of made that crucial decision. And only he could make that decision. All around were urging. But the fact that having made that decision,

within a week, he'd had milkshake acid thrown at him. He'd had a concrete block thrown at him. That proved why it was such a difficult decision for Nigel to make, because it was a life-changing decision. And he wanted to make sure. And the reality is, we were all ready to roll and it's one of the reasons I'm convinced we're convinced that Sunak called the election to everyone's surprise early because he heard that Nigel was coming back and that's in a sense

if they had waited later then Nigel would have come back in the summer, as we'd agreed and as I wanted, then we'd have had a longer run up along the runway and we'd have secured a lot more votes and we'd have got more seats. So that's crystal clear. So I hope that clarifies it. And there's a whole load of nonsense written about that. But you just go back through the media things. I've said for many months that the more help Nigel can give in whatever capacity, excellent. He's committed to this now, right? This is a five year project. He's not going to decide halfway through, oh, actually, I want to go and launch a TV show in America or help Trump if he wins the White House. He's 100 committed

oh i think i think 300 and that's why it's such a big decision because as you can imagine that's that's what i wanted to know it's what everybody wanted to know was that was that he was he was wanted to do it for the long term and and he's made that very clear to everybody, which is fantastic. But it's a, as I said, it's a life-changing commitment that he's made. And that's why, in a sense, all of our jobs at Reform

is to back that commitment by working our absolute socks off to try to make him prime minister whenever the election is called in 28, 29. Do you think Nigel deserves or needs more security protection, given what happened to Trump and given the very obvious target that the left have put on his back? Yeah, security is a massive issue for Nigel. I suspect he's probably, apart from the Prime Minister,

possibly more than the Prime Minister, he's one of the most exposed individuals in the country. So, yeah, security is a big concern. We obviously don't talk about the operational details behind that, but it's a sad fact of life for someone so well-known, so high profile, but indeed equally for all MPs. Security is taken very seriously. Parliamentary authorities are really robust and brilliant

about the standards and procedures and recommendations that they have. We are where we are, and it's a difficult place, particularly actually for female MPs. I think there's an added level of... Of peril, indeed. Of peril and brutality. Indeed. Now, look, you know that I have been incredibly impressed with Reform UK since the election, but I am a critical friend, Richard, and so I have to ask you about something that I thought was really mishandled.

And you would be, I think, surprised to know how many of my viewers were absolutely distraught about this decision and especially the treatment of a man who had been incredibly loyal to you as deputy leader of Reform UK. I'm talking about the sacking of Ben Habib, which was done brutally and done without communication. It seemed to me that Nigel was very unhappy with his comments to Julia Hartley Brewer on talk about leaving illegal migrants to drown in the channel. But wasn't there a better way to do this with Ben? Wasn't there a way where he could have still taken on some sort of role in the party, that he still could have had a speaking spot at the conference? I mean, this is a, I mean i mean you know he was your deputy you

chose him to be your deputy he is an acutely intelligent man why do fintechs like float choose visa as a more trusted more secure payments network visa provides scale expertise and innovative payment solutions learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. Yeah, look, there's no question that that interview with Julia was, Julia did a very good interview. She did a good job and it was challenging. But actually what he really meant

was completely misrepresented. And I defended that. and our policy has always been crystal clear, pick up and take back, it's the only policy that will work. Look, things change, obviously when we now had people in Parliament it was right to

change things, we had this ambition to professionalise and I couldn't do everything. Nigel can't do everything. And when you're in Parliament, you need a deputy leader. So, look, we made some changes. Whether different people and things, whether we get communication perfect every time,

well, we can all sort of debate that. But Ben, he's worked incredibly hard. He's very committed. He's a good friend. And we all move forward. And I hope that he will continue to remain very committed as much as he can. He's got business interests to pursue as well. And in a sense, that level of commitment,

it impacts on some of one's outside interests. And that is also a fact. But the truth is, senior people in reform, I've got a lot of personal support. Ben's got a lot. Rupert's got a lot. Lee's got a lot. I think I've got some. And Nigel's got a lot. Andupert's got a lot, Lee's got a lot. I think I've got some, and Nigel's got a lot, and David Burland and various others. And you've got this new rising star, James,

who nobody even expected to make Parliament at all. That's right. And sorry, I'm so sorry. Zia, as chairman, has got a growing amount of support, massive respect for the time and effort he's committed, which is huge. And yeah, so more and more people are listening and hearing and reading and watching what Zia writes and says.

And that's just, we just push on. And that's how we have to do it. Richard Tice, do stand by because, of course, That's just, we just push on. And that's how we have to do it. Richard Tice, do stand by, because of course, one of the biggest questions is over the Conservative Party. Is Reform UK going to do a deal? And what about Swala Braverman and Priti Patel? Surely the only way that they can actually

win their seats at the next election is if they do defect to Reform. So Richard back in just one minute. First though, it's the best time of year. Football's back. We're talking Premier League in the UK and in the US NFL Sundays and college football Saturdays. With that comes the glorious grind of fantasy football lineups. So this is where your owner manager comes alive, setting the perfect fantasy roster, screaming at your TV and making last minute waiver moves that either make you a hero or the guy everyone ridicules in the group chat.

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show you raise female mps and their security earlier there is a gay pinhole you know i don't do identity politics ever richard but for me there are two really obvious people that could really help reform uk overnight two former home secretaries uh priti patel suela braverman actually the they're diverse women I would say is completely beside the point but you need them in Reform UK don't you? They're born for your party and they've been completely rejected by the left wing Tories

Well as you say Dan we don't do identity politics we want great people But they're great people aren't they? I mean they're great people They are great people, aren't they? I mean, they're great people They are great people and we have a laugh in Parliament

and we tease each other and that's sort of part of the topic and indeed I can be tease and be civil outside the chamber with people from the Labour Party But I mean, are you having active talks with Conservatives? Yeah, look

lots of people ask me that, Dan. And my answer is the same. It's a fairly sort of standard answer, but I'm not giving a running commentary on any chats, texts, telegrams, WhatsApps, signal messages, text messages or anything that I have with anybody because it's vital that as and when someone does want to talk, then they know that it's a confidential process.

No, I understand. It's absolutely paramount. Let me ask in a different way. They're not about individuals. Do you expect the Reform UK caucus to be bigger than five MPs before the next election? A hundred and ten percent, about 200 percent. Because the thing is, these conservatives surely have to realise, MPs before the next election? 110%. About 200%. Because the thing is, these Conservatives surely have to realise, and by the way, I've said this

to Suala and Priti and about Suala and Priti, I predict they will not win their seat if they stand under the Conservative banner at the next election. So there's also a degree of self-preservation, isn't there? Well, look, we will definitely have more than five mps by the

time of the next election whether it's by elections whether it's people realizing that we're actually the home of common sense from from the conservatives or whatever and the more the merrier we've just got to push on and just keep doing uh we're doing and keep bashing on. But in a sense, we're focused on what we're doing, candidly. And if we get it right, get the policies right, make enough noise, then I think more people will join us. Yeah. Well, in a matter of weeks. And more high profile people will join us.

There's also, there are various people, for for example Dan, who just lost their seat. High profile conservatives who I think also are analysed, you know, thinking about things very carefully and so let's wait and see. But Nigel has said before and continues to say

something's going to happen on the right of centre of British politics. There be there'll be some shape of realignment in some shape or form of that we've got no doubt well that's my final question actually Richard and arguably it's the most important are you open to some sort of arrangement with the Conservative Party now I know you don't know who their leader is going to be yet, but is there a possibility? I'm not even talking about a full merge,

but is there a possibility of some sort of electoral pact, some sort of deal where maybe you stand down in seats where the Lib Dems are challenging the Tories, they allow you to be unleashed on the Red Wall. I mean, is there some sort of pact or are you still going down this path of the only way to victory is full destruction of the Conservative Party? What we're doing is just focusing on our own growth, our own branches. We've got a lot of work to do. And let's not get ahead of ourselves.

The next election is four and a half, five years away. So there's plenty of time. Who knows what happens when? And my main prediction is that whoever wins the Conservative leadership will most unlikely be the leader at the time of the next general election. I think that's sort of... That's guaranteed, I think. And the thing is, look, at the time of the next general election. I think that's sort of... That's a guarantee, I think. And the thing is, look, at the end of the day,

we want people with us who believe in the philosophy of conservatism. The Conservative Party does not own that philosophy. In fact, the truth is they abandon that philosophy and that's why they're in the pickle they're in. So, and competition's a good thing. It's actually part of the conservative philosophy. And if that makes us all perform better, well, so much the better. And so, we just push on.

I'm really not that fussed about what they're up to. What I do know is you can't trust what these leadership candidates say. I mean, take Camille Badenoch, for example. When she was a minister, was she expressing concerns about China or the ECHR? No. Or net zero? No, not at all. All of a sudden now that she's out of power, she's trying to be a hawk on these issues.

And I'm sorry, I just can't trust people that operate like that. It doesn't sit well with me. We've got a very strong conviction on some very clear policies, and we take some flack for it, but we are convinced that we're right on it. Well, yeah. And as I always say these days, Richard, Margaret Thatcher would now be considered too far right for the Conservative Party, and she would probably be a member of Reform UK. So I think you're completely right. The whole idea of what conservatism is is changing.

I think you've made a massive impact, personally, in a very short space of time. It's like you've been unleashed, actually. I think maybe it's better for you being deputy because you've got more time to focus on these issues that really, really matter. And I appreciate the time today and good luck at your conference tonight.

Thanks very much. It's a great event. Huge, absolutely huge. Yeah, I'm going to be tuning in. Thank you, Richard. Now, very sorry to say there is no uncancelled after show today, but that is because I am heading right now to the Together Declaration third anniversary event. But the very good news is that that is streaming live.

So I will post the link on my X page via the Together account on YouTube, I think. And honestly, there's quite a lineup tonight. Neil Oliver, Claire Fox, Catherine Birbelsingh, Zuby, Ben Habib, Bev Turner, Alison Pearson, Dominic Frisby, Matt Letizia, and Winston Marshall. I'm joining a panel to talk about the importance of turning away from the MSM. But don't worry, the after show returns on Monday because you know it's very important to me that we have a safe space, not patrolled by big tech where censorship and control runs deep. So that's why I've launched www.outspoken.live, our membership section where you will get half an hour of extra content. So all you have to do is sign up at www.outspoken.live. I am back Monday at 5 p.m. UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific.

Please do subscribe right now on YouTube and Rumble. Spread the word about Outspoken. And most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you. Have an amazing weekend.