Dan Wootton Outspoken - REFORM UK UNDER ATTACK FROM SKY NEWS AFTER BOMBSHELL CLAIM NIGEL FARAGE WILL BECOME PM

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Betting markets now price a 30 per cent possibility that Nigel Farage will be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. And that’s certainly clear in the MSM today, with Sly News attempting a hit piece on the surge of youngsters joining Reform UK. One of the men in that report – Reform UK supporter Nicholas Lissack – joins our Superstar Panel, alongside Suzanne Evans, who as the former Deputy Chairman has worked with Nigel Farage up close, for good and ill. PLUS: Does Starmer really hate the UK that much? Following the Chagos Islands sell out, is the Prime Minister now set to give up the Elgin Marbles to Greece without any form of public debate. AND:  As the MSM hysteria over Masterchef’s Gregg Wallace making a few bawdy jokes continues, with more rolling coverage today, has Kay Burley just exposed herself as the biggest hypocritical middle aged woman of a certain age? THEN: In the Uncancelled Aftershow, Angela Levin reveals all on The Lost Prince, the bombshell German documentary exposing the truth about Prince Harry’s elitist new life with Meghan Markle. Sign up to watch the exclusive Aftershow at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. no spin no bias no censorship i'm dan wilton this is outspoken live episode number 109 click and subscribe to our brand new independent news source, turn on the notification bell if you want to be alerted to our live shows, uncancelled interviews and special royal episodes. Breaking right now, betting markets price a 30% possibility that Nigel Farage will be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. As Reform UK Chairman Zia Youssef reminds us just over six months ago, they priced a 30% possibility he would win his race in Clacton. We know what happened there. And the Farage surge is certainly clear in the MSM today, with Sly News attempting a hit piece on the surge of youngsters joining Reform UK.

This is Charlie. He spent the summer campaigning for Reform UK on a battle bus with Nigel Farage. But three months later, now at just 13 years old, he's moved further to the right, attending and speaking at Tommy Robinson rallies. One of the men in that report, Reform UK supporter Nicholas Lissac, joins our superstar panel today alongside Suzanne Evans, who as the former deputy chairman of UKIP,

worked with Nigel Farage up close for good and ill. Also coming up on the show today, does Stama really hate the UK that much? Following the Chagos Island sellout, is the PM now set to give up the Elgin marbles to Greece without any form of public debate? And as the MSM hysteria over MasterChef's Greg Wallace making a few bawdy jokes continue with more rolling coverage today, has Kay Burley just exposed herself as the biggest hypocritical middle-aged woman of a certain age? You feel that you look like the killjoy and the prude,

but actually that's not what you are. But that can be how it feels. Absolutely. I'd be very happy for him to come and talk to me on the programme if he would like to at any stage over the next few days or weeks, whether he wants to talk about his sex life or not. I can't imagine that that would take very long. As a former head of a news organisation,

how should this have been handled? So it's completely fine for Kay Burley, is it, to make jokes about Greg Wallace's sex life. They don't even see the hypocrisy. Then in the uncancelled after show, Angela Levin reveals all on The Lost Prince. Now, this is the bombshell new German documentary airing tonight that will expose the truth about Prince Harry's elitist new life in Montecito with Meghan Markle. Angela features in the documentary. She's seen it. She will give us the exclusive scoop. And remember, the Uncancelled After Show now broadcast exclusively daily and on demand on my Substack, which you can Google or get to right now by visiting www.outspoken.live. We have had the biggest ever Substack sale running for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. two more days to sign up with 30% off, which means you can get access to the after show and

all my exclusive columns and the community for just £3 a month plus VAT if you're in the UK. But either way, I do want you to sign up. Of course, you can subscribe for free. I know how difficult times are at the moment, and it is so important that we are united here on Outspoken. But now, let's go. Do you know what? Sometimes a video sums up the mood of the country. And sadly, when Slippery Starmer turned on the Christmas tree lights at Number 10 Downing Street last night, it reflected our flat feeling of despondency and languid acceptance of our fate as a country in decline for at least four more years. Will you please join me when I say five, four, three, two, one. Yay! It worked! Nervous moment there, but it's all good.

It's not all good, Keir. It's really not all good. As Steve Miller put it, this is awful. Couldn't inspire the thirsty to have a drink. So indeed, this video feels more appropriate for the moment. Could you please join me when I say five, fan of AI, we've got to have some humour in our downfall, right? Even if the MSM now seem to believe that some bawdy jokes from a working class MasterChef presenter is a more important story than the destruction of our economy, handing over our artefacts and undermining the Brexit vote.

Not to mention the previous decisions to throw our farmers under the bus, take heating away from war pensioners and declare class warfare by adding VAT to private school fees. And what about the hope? Where does that hope come from? Well, perhaps in the form of this man, who is potentially about to be supported by a certain Mr. Musk to bring an anti-woke revolution to the UK. The legacy media remain tone deaf about Nigel Farage, of course, but more people are taking note by the day. As Reform UK chairman Zia Youssef revealed earlier, betting markets now price a 30% probability Nigel Farage will be the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Just over six months ago, they priced a 30% probability he would win his race in Clacton. Reform has

unprecedented momentum in British politics. And we know Farage didn't just win Clapton, he romped home. And no wonder they, and by they I mean the deep state, I mean the establishment, I mean the mainstream media, I mean globalist forces, no wonder they wanted to keep Nigel out of the House of Commons for so many years, because he is using his position to become the spiritual leader of the parliamentary opposition, as Kemi Badenoch, the new Tory leader, flusters and fades. Take Farage's forthright opposition to the immoral deal to give up the Chagos Islands. The presentation of what the American administration believes is a fantasy. Joe Biden is going. In fact, many think he's gone already. Diolch yn fawr. yw'n ymwybodol o'r deal hwn. Maen nhw'n gwybod nad yw'r cydlyniad o leisgol yn byw, yn unig y byddai'r deal â China dros Hong Kong ddim wedi byw. Nid yw'r amser wedi dod i'r Llywodraeth

i ddychmygu bod y deal hwn yn rhotn i'r DU, yn rhotn i'r Amur, ac yn deal gwaethaf i'r Llywodraethau. Os ydych chi'n bwysig iawn am fawrthu'r Falkland Islanders, why not have a referendum of the Chagossians and ask them to settle who should have sovereignty over those islands? The critical thing for me about this story is not necessarily the Chagos Islands, although as you know I'm completely furious about what Starmer is proposing. It is the fact that it's Nigel Farage who is now setting the agenda. And we know what happens when he does that. First, he did it with Brexit. Then he did it with the illegal invasion of our southern border via small boats and the unacceptable explosion of legal migration. And the challenge for him is whether he can now do it on the need for wholesale reform of our entire system. The MSM might continue being in attack mode

towards Reform UK, with Wokai TV trying to convince themselves that Farage remains an unpopular political figure, and Sly News suggesting his surge in youth support is down to online radicalisation. But just like they were in the US with its dishonest support of dementia plague Joe Biden and incompetent Kamala Harris, by backing the awful quartet of Slippery Starmer, Angela Rayner, Rachel Thebes and Looney Lamy, they are signing their own death warrant. But now, the Superstar Panel. And I'm delighted today to bring in Nicholas Lesak. He is a young Reform UK supporter. He was featured in that Sly News hit piece earlier today, so we will speak to him about that. And Suzanne Evans, my friend, conservative commentator, writer, and also someone who previously had a close working relationship with Nigel Farage at the UKIP party. And Suzanne, look, you had a bit of an experience like Ben Habib. So how do you feel about this Farage

surge, this Farage momentum at the moment? Can you see your ex-colleague becoming Prime Minister? You know, Dan, I've never been one to hold grudges. And yeah, Nigel and I might have had a run in, but I really do hope he genuinely does become the next Prime Minister, because I think Britain needs somebody like him. I, like so many people around the country, are sick to death of the kind of lib-lab-cong, the three main parties that really don't seem to give a damn, quite honestly, about what a lot of people in Britain think. You know, they've all gone completely woke. None of them seem to be in touch with ordinary working people and those of us who run businesses. Migration has been an untrammeled failure. There's been no integration. You know,

multiculturalism as a philosophy has completely failed. We've got the small boats issue. We've had high taxes under, well, you know, I thought in 2010, when the Conservatives got into government that we might see lower taxes, but oh no, George Osborne just kept putting them up and up and up. And now we are here with Rachel Reeves' disastrous budget, which is going to do anything but deliver the growth she kept talking about before the general election. And it almost in a deluded way keeps talking about now when she's doing everything in her power, it seems to me to completely quash growth and make it completely unlikely. You know, Labour's manifesto was a complete pack of lies, as far as I can tell, on all kinds of things that they never said they'd do and not done things they said they would do. So the whole thing is a disaster. We're all fed up with the LibLab com. We desperately need change

in this country. We need to get back to British values. We need to do what people voted for in the EU referendum. We need to take back control of our money, our borders, and our freedoms. And Nigel Farage seems to me is the only person that can do that. However flawed a personality he might be, and we all have our flaws, let's be honest. Yeah, I really hope he does. And it's quite interesting to see recently Elon Musk supporting him in the way he crossed the pond. Some of Elon's tweets have been quite astonishing, really. I've got slight concerns about that. You know, one of the things that Nigel has faced is allegations that he's been supported by Russia. Complete and utter rubbish.

But of course, we also criticised, I think quite rightly, President Obama's intervention in the Brexit campaign. So I'm a little bit concerned about somebody who's not a British national appearing to try and interfere in the British electoral process. But nonetheless, I do think what Elon Musk is saying is very interesting, because he has now become a kind of litmus test for wokery, hasn't he, or anti-wokery, I should say. So in that sense, I think his support is very welcome. Well, absolutely, because I guess he sees the UK now as the unfinished business. This week, he was talking about cancel culture being cancelled, not in the UK, where people are being locked up for sending posts on X. So I think Elon Musk's

support could be hugely significant. And this week alone, he has predicted that the establishment parties, so Labour, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, he didn't name them, but they are the establishment parties that they will be crushed at the next election. And after Dame Andrea Jenkins defected, he predicted that Reform UK will win the next election. So after this meeting with Donald Trump and Nigel Farage at Mar-a-Lago, he certainly seems to almost be endorsing Farage via X, which is the most important platform in the world where he has the biggest voice. But Nicholas Lesak, as a Reform supporter, do you have any of the concerns that Suzanne raises and certainly that the left will raise about foreign interference if Elon does indeed to decide, does decide to donate this $100 million?

Well, firstly, I just want to praise Suzanne real quick for putting the country above any petty personal squabble she may have with Nigel. It's absolutely vital, absolutely vital that we get him into power by 2029, or quite frankly, the country is toast, especially with the fact that we've got four and a half years left to contend with Labour. And going back to your question, Dan, no, I don't really have any concerns. I think, honestly, this is just absolutely incredible. We see many people in the establishments in Britain saying, oh, this is foreign interventionism. Well, as you point out, they didn't really have that opinion when Barack Obama came over in 2016 and demanded that the British people's votes remain in the European Union. As we saw, that ended very poorly for him. But ultimately, I believe that Elon Musk,

especially considering what he's only doing with X, He has turned X into the global town square. It is so unbelievably important that we have his support. And you know what? That is only a good thing. Starmer has quite rightly, I mean, he's relaunching his government for a reason. And that's because the likes of Elon Musk have really put his feet to the fire and they have exposed him to the world as somebody who is really quite an insidious figure. So, you know what? I think that the support that reformers, especially Nigel, is receiving from Twitter, from Elon Musk, is absolutely spectacular. And, you know, all of these lefties out there who are going to criticise Nigel for accepting the support of a foreign backer. Well, you know, I think in some respects, they're almost a bit jealous. And they're also quite afraid, because although they like to

say that, oh, Elon's an idiot, and that, oh, he doesn't really have that big of an influence, which is actually something I have heard before, which quite frankly, shows the extent of these people's delusion. Elon Musk is quite possibly the most influential man on the planet. He is the kingmaker, kingmaker, in my opinion, he actually got Donald Trump back into office. It was Elon's support and his $100 million super PAC that really helped push Trump over the line. So in my view, if he does supply the money to Nigel and reform, that's a game changer.

And you know what? All these establishment parties, the Lib Lab cons, they can kiss 2029 goodbye. It's going to be reform zero. It's going to be a reform zero. It's going to be a reform slide. You know what? I can't wait to see Prime Minister Nigel Farage. It's going to be spectacular. Right at the perfect moment, some breaking news. Look at this. After 32 years in the Conservative Party, Tim Montgomery, former advisor to Boris Johnson and creator and editor of Conservative Home, has joined Reform UK. And there he is pictured

alongside Nigel Farage and Zia Youssef. Well, Susan Evans, look, I know part of the joy of Reform UK is the fact that they are not so reliant on the Westminster establishment. But a figure like Tim Montgomery is so connected to the Conservative Party in every way. This is going to be devastating for Kemi Baderock, is it not? That is very interesting indeed. Now, of course, Tim Montgomery supported Robert Jenrick, the leader of the Conservative Party. He no doubt must have been very disappointed that he didn't win that. And I suspect you might think and I certainly do that Robert Jenrick's philosophy and certainly his leadership campaign was much more in tune with reform thinking than Kemi Badenoch's was.

So so in one sense, this isn't a surprise. Of course, in other senses, it is an absolutely surprise. And Tim Montgomery might not be a household name to the ordinary man and woman in the street. But certainly for the Conservatives, he is absolutely a major name and a major influential figure. And the Conservatives will miss him, I think. Nicholas Lesak, massive blow for the Conservatives. Huge blow, huge blow, an embarrassing blow. I mean, this just goes to show that the momentum in British politics is with reform.

He wouldn't have left the Conservative Party if he hadn't had good reason for it. He knows stuff we don't know. As you point out, he's very well connected. He probably knows how afraid the British establishment are of Nigel. He probably knows the facts that they are absolutely convinced that he will end up in 2029 in number 10. And you know what? This is yet another massive monumental blow to the Conservative Party.

And we're going to be seeing a hell of a lot more of this over the next five years, Dan, I'll tell you that because Reform UK is the only party in Britain with any sort of momentum, any sort of true popular backing. And I know we've seen some pushback recently from people on the right on social media. However, they represent an angry, shouty minority. The real people, the people who count and the people that the British people are actually going to listen to are all standing with reform. So you know what? This is absolutely incredible. I'm welcome to the party. Absolutely welcome. Big welcome from me. I know he's probably not watching this, but huge welcome. And you know what? This is absolutely incredible. Welcome to the party. Absolutely

welcome. Big welcome from me. I know he's probably not watching this, but huge welcome. And you know what? He is the first of many, or in this case, the second of many after Andrea Jenkins, who, by the way, is absolutely spectacular. So yes, this is really terrific, really terrific news. Suzanne Evans, look, I really like Tim Montgomery. You know, there will be people who are to the right of the Conservatives who say these types of defections. And we saw Ben Habib say something very similar last week here on this show and on other platforms.

There will be people who say this will dilute reform's message. Do you have concerns about that? No, I don't. What I do agree with Ben Habib is when he talked about reform constantly targeting conservatives. And I think he was right about that. I think that's wrong. I think there are many people on the left of politics, certainly voters on the left of politics in those so-called red wall seats, if you like, that are very much aligned with reform thinking. And I do think it's a mistake for reform and Farage to purely go after Conservatives because they look like a kind of

an offshoot of the Tory party. And I actually think reform is something much more important and potentially something much bigger than that. And I know when I was in UKIP, there were conversations with some Labour members of Parliament as well about defecting they didn't come to anything for various reasons but you know people think I seem to be a far-right extremist most of the time but I think that just shows you how far most people have gone to the left I think I have some political views that are quite left wing and I was certainly very much at home in UKIP and with that ideology, which, of course, is carried through into reform. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. Big day for Reform UK.

Another major defection, just repeating that breaking news. Reform UK announcing after 33 years in the Conservative Party, Tim Montgomery, former advisor to Boris Johnson and creator and editor of Conservative Home, has joined Reform UK. The reason that this is so significant is that he has been a bit of a moral compass for the Conservative Party.

He's certainly not on the right of the party, but I'd say he's on the centre-right of the party. But what he does is bring a huge amount of respectability to Reform UK. He's also, let me tell you, a very decent, honourable man. And he's someone who absolutely believes in Thatcherite principles. And remember, just yesterday, I was posing the question of whether Margaret Thatcher would have defected to Reform UK if she were alive today. And I think Tim Montgomery's defection at least points in one direction. Breaking right now, Sly News has launched its latest attack on Reform UK,

suggesting Nigel Farage's surge in youth support is down to online radicalisation. Our superstar panellist, Nicholas Lissac, is one of the young men featured in what it is branding a special investigation that has been broadcast all day. TikTok workplace where I saw them, that's where they sort of made the name for themselves, especially Nigel. And who was watching? Well, mostly young men. Young blokes want to be young blokes and they feel the world is telling them not to be young

blokes. Something remarkable is happening with Gen Z. Data from the general election shows a growing gulf between how young men and women are voting. The so-called bro vote is on the rise, with young men twice as likely to have voted reform in the election than young women. And for 16 to 17-year-olds, 35% of young men said they would have voted reform, making Farage's party as popular with this demographic as Labour. Nick became a political influencer after his first TikTok supporting reform went viral overnight. It is young people, but it's also young boys, young men. Yes.

What do you think it is about reform that attracts that demographic? I think with the onset of fourth-wave feminism and all of that, I for one believe that young men are feeling increasingly disenfranchised by society. Hello, my name is George Finch. I'm 18 years old. George Finch started a reform-focused magazine online. He says it's by reformers for reformers. All of us have got that one common goal, and it's to get reform to win. So far, you might say so fair. But there was a point to the Sly News investigation.

Trust me, Sly News is on the hard left. And what they wanted to do is link this surge in reform UK support to its bogeyman, Tommy Robinson. This is Charlie. He spent the summer campaigning for Reform UK on a battle bus with Nigel Farage. But three months later, now at just 13 years old, he's moved further to the right, attending and speaking at Tommy Robinson rallies. I've got opinions on immigration and stuff like that. Obviously, further to the right attending and speaking at Tommy Robinson rallies do you think from the summer to now you've spent more time online yes and I believe me being online has helped me actually develop my views because if I say for example if I was just watching normal TV I would see what a racist person he is

what a racist person they are. But now, now I'm on Twitter, I see it all firsthand. And increasing numbers do seem to be listening. An anti-establishment rhetoric now filling a political gap that mainstream politics won't. Now, you don't have to read between the lines much in that report. The clear suggestion is that if folk are getting their information from online platforms like X, it's probably what they term misinformation. It drives people further to the right.

So, Nicholas, you obviously decided to feature in this Sly News report. I know you were concerned because you know exactly what Sly News are all about. But presumably you were hoping to provide the other side to the way that they usually present Reform UK? Well, very much so, yes. I mean, I've been told by the producer who reached out to me, an absolutely lovely lady called izzy who might i had treated me exceptionally well they were nothing but pleasant to me when i did the interview and i had a very very very good time irrespective of what you think of the network um they she reached out to me saying that apparently a couple of people from within reformer told them to come to me and so i sort of felt obliged and i sat down for a very lovely chat with them i was quite nervous i was i was cautiously optimistic and i i do think i come out

of the report looking quite well especially in comparison to um the the other people in the report but um overall uh i think you know I understand what they're trying to do there. In fact, the whole point I make about fourth wave feminism was actually only a really tiny aspect of what I said. In fact, primarily, I pointed out the fact that young men, often from disadvantaged backgrounds, feel like the political establishment has betrayed them effectively, sold them down the river to globalist multinational corporations and free trade agreements, you know. So I do somewhat question their sort of decision to simply, you know, include my bits about fourth wave feminism, because that was only a tiny, tiny, tiny element of what I actually spoke about. As I just said, I spoke more about the fact that many communities over the last 40 years, especially, you know, since the late 90s, early 2000s, have really been left behind by the globalist political establishment in Westminster. And that's why, in my view, we're seeing a lurch to the right amongst young people and an increase in support for reform.

So I do wonder why they didn't bother to include that bit, though. You know, overall, I am quite satisfied with the documentary. However, I understand the point that you're making. And I may as well just clarify, I have absolutely zero association to Tommy Robinson. I never have, nor will I ever. So I think in the case of Charlie, that was a unique case, because there certainly isn't a reformed Tommy Robinson pipeline. At least I haven't seen that. I mean, as we're well aware, the party is disassociated from Mr. Well, I mean, they never associated in the slightest, but, you know, they've made it abundantly clear that Tommy Robinson, you know,

is sort of persona non grata reform. So do you think that's the right thing? Because you have that young guy, Charlie, going on a Tommy Robinson march. And as a result, he's expunged from Reform UK. Now, there was no trouble at those marches whatsoever. It was full of patriots. I know you battled with this whole question, Suzanne, when you were within UKIP, because there has always been the debate about how close political parties should align with Tommy Robinson but I just worry that by automatically dismissing anyone including a young lad of 13 saying well you're not for us now simply because

you've gone on the Uniting the Kingdom much? Personally, I don't agree with that approach. Well, I have to correct you, Dan. I didn't battle with the whole issue of Tommy Robinson and UKIP. I was very clear where I stood. And the moment that Gerald Batten became leader and decided he wanted to associate with Tommy Robinson, that's when I left UKIP and Nigel Farage left, I think a few days later. So I'm afraid I do disagree with you on this. I'm totally in Nicholas's camp on this. I think Tommy Robinson is pretty much beyond the pale, really. I'm not saying he isn't always right. Even a broken clock can be right twice a day. But I don't think reform should be associating with him. I think they've absolutely made the right decision here. And I appreciate what you're saying about a young man doing something when they're young. And I think,

you know, there's always room for forgiveness and change further down the line. But reform is in a very difficult position here. Whether they like it or not, they're going to be tarred as being far right. We know that's not true, but that's the way it is. The reality is that's how they're going to be smeared. And so I'm afraid they have to counter that in every way they possibly can. We might not, we know what the media agenda is. But if you want to keep your reputation up to a certain point, and only up to a certain point, you have to play along with it and certainly not give them any amulets. Well, I think this is where I do disagree with both of you, actually, because I would argue that the way that Donald Trump changed the system in the US, and he has, he took control of the Republican Party. And it's a bit

like the conservatives over here. Remember, they didn't want him. Republicans didn't want him. The Republican establishment didn't want him. The political establishment didn't want him. The legacy media certainly didn't want him. But he played by his own rules. And sometimes that does mean doing things that the mainstream media might claim are unpalatable. But the mainstream media have proven themselves time and again to be wrong on so many issues. But look, you did receive a bit of pushback from other quarters, Nicholas, today. So I wanted to show you this post on X from Luca Watson, another conservative commentator, and get you to respond. He said, the narrative that young people, men, are turning en masse to support reform is based

on pure vibes, nothing else. More young men vote Lib Dem than reform twice as many young people voted green nine percent versus 18 a few odd social media influences do not constitute a wider trend and then he posted a picture of you and said does this man represent the future of young british men's politics take a guess nicholas your chance to respond. Well, firstly, I didn't know it was a problem to dress up for Halloween. And I don't really understand why it's got such an issue with the movie Top Gun.

Though it seems a lot of people on both the hard left and the right absolutely hate the fact I decided to dress up as Maverick. But what Luca really, really, really fails to acknowledge is the fact that that poll in particular, at least those statistics show 18 to 24 year olds. Now, if we look back at the election, we see a lot of under 16s, a lot of 16 year olds, a lot of people who are are invariably always going to vote for the Lib Dems or the Greens is quite frankly ridiculous, especially considering how we have five years. There are so, so, so many young people in this country

who are quite frankly sick and tired of establishment status quo politics. And we've seen that. I think it was something like 25, 30 percent of under 16s would vote for Reform UK. So you know what? In five years time, there is going to be a youth quake that is going to shape up the establishment and, quite frankly, change things forever. So, yeah, honestly, I'm really not worried about what Luca has to say, because I think, you know, statistics do show that a trend is occurring. And it really is cherry picking the fact he has to pick that 18 to 24 year old one. Why not a 16 to 24 year old one?

Well, you know why? Because it would show that what he's spouting is complete and utter rubbish. And also, I'd like to see what he dressed up for Halloween. Can I make two points? Please. One, I think, Nicholas, you looked amazing in that photograph. Thank you. I'd vote for you.

Thank you. And the second thing is, you know, it's all that photograph. I think you ignore it like that. And the second thing is, you know, it's all very well this polling, isn't it? But the end of the day, it's just polling. It's what people tell a pollster, depending on what question they're asked. You can't really draw anything from it. The only poll that matters is the one where you tick a box on a ballot paper. And until that happens, people really don't know what people think. And we know that very often people are shy UKIP, shy Tory, shy reform, whatever it might be. And those polls don't necessarily, I don't think, reflect reality.

Indeed, indeed. Now, look, I wanted to show you one more example of what I want to see more from Nigel Farage. But I'm interested in your point of view, Suzanne. You might not think this is a good approach. Earlier this week, he decided he'd had enough of the mainstream media. And this is what happened when Sly News continued to harass him about a conviction that Reform UK MP James McMurdoch received, I think it was 20 years ago something he has apologized for unreservedly served his time but before but sly news decided it was the most important story of the day so watch how nigel responded involves being honest though are you not concerned that he lied about what he did did he he wasn't vetted he wasn't vetted. James McMurdoch was one of those many candidates who wasn't vetted at all by the party.

Look, I didn't know any of this when I took him back over as leader. So you said you're going to put in place the most vigorous vetting system in place now. Do you think James McMurdoch would not go through this new vetting system? You can have your fun at Sky News. We've got 100,000 members. I've got a million followers on TikTok. Dame Andrea Jenkins has just joined us.

She's our candidate for Greater Lincolnshire. You've had your fun. I'm off for lunch. Thank you. See, Suzanne, this is what I'm talking about. I would actually like to see more of that from Nigel. Don't play their games. Follow the Trumpian playbook.

Do you disagree? I think there are very, very few occasions when you can walk out of a media interview. But I think on that occasion, Nigel was probably right to do so. The problem is, and I'm afraid this does throw up a massive issue in reform, Brexit party before it, UKIP before that.

Betting of candidates is appalling. It really is truly appalling. And it's got to change. Nicholas, what did you think about Nigel storming out? Well, I thought it was quite powerful. And it harkens back to when I believe 20 or 30 years ago, Trump stormed out of a CNN interview in the 1990s, which shows he's never changed.

And he never will. And you know what? Honestly, I think it is important that he shows the media that he's really not willing to play their games when they bring up stuff that's quite frankly ludicrous. I mean, you know, I've been accused of not stopping this from happening. Well, I was four years old when this happened. I don't really see how I could stop the same people from doing anything. But you know what? It was 20 years ago. He's apologised profusely. James McMurdoch is such a lovely, genuinely kind person. He has been nothing but charming towards me.

And you know what? I'm willing to overlook that because, you know, he's been such a great MP for the people of Thurrock. And that shows in the polling that demonstrates that he, if the election was held today, he won by, what, 98 votes. Well, now he'd win by around 3,000. I think that just shows the power of reform. And that's why they're so desperate to tar him for what's effectively ancient history, because they do not want reform in Parliament causing trouble for the establishment. And can I just say, Keir Starmer decided to make the Transport Secretary,

the Transport Secretary, or at least the former transport secretary, the transport secretary, knowing full well that she had a conviction for fraud that had been covered up from the public. So there is a discussion to be had about whether people can move on from their lives. I would just argue as long as you're transparent about it, then absolutely. But breaking right now, The Guardian has revealed in a bombshell exclusive report that Slippery Starmer and the UK socialist government are preparing to give up the Elgin marbles to Greece. The decision has sparked fury about the new Prime Minister's hatred of our country so soon after the Chagos Islands sellout. So lots of reaction to this today. Kristen Kelge of the Daily Express wrote, Finally win an election, give away British territory, give away powers to Brussels and give away national treasures. It feels like we're being forced to live in an episode of

Call the Bailiffs. Sophie Cacoran wrote, Have we ever known a British Prime Minister to be as anti-British as Keir Starmer? Giving away the Chagos Islands, the Elgin Marbles, taxing British farms whilst giving millions to foreign farms. No wonder he said he prefers Davos to Westminster. But on Sly News today, Labour Minister Jess Phillips showed her complete disdain for people who care about this issue. Watch. What are we going to do about the Elgin marbles? Oh, gosh.

Do you know what, Kay? I don't know what we're going to do about the Elgin marbles. What would you like to happen? I didn't know it was going to come up again. The Prime Minister... Oh, gosh, it's like a raging debate in my house with my husband, the Elgin marbles. It's certainly a raging debate as it relates to...

Let me finish, if I may, please. The Greek Prime Minister and our Prime Minister are meeting today. They want them back. We pinched them a long time ago. What should we do? Look, I think that there's probably a perfectly sensible solution that can be come up. I'm not going to pre-empt the conversation that the Prime Minister

is going to have with the Greek Prime Minister, because that would then become the story of me telling Keir Starmer what to say to the Greek Prime Minister. But look, it seems like that two friendly nations could probably get over this particular issue. And I have to say, in the public, it's very rarely raised with me on a doorstep what's going to happen to the Elgin marbles, notwithstanding my husband's keen interest in it. OK, Jess Phillip, lost for words. I'm going to put that on my CV. Thanks very much, Shandee, for joining us.

Yeah, it's just so hilarious, isn't it, Kay? Isn't it, Jess? But as Toby Young made clear, Lord Elgin did not pinch the Elgin marbles, Kay Burley. A parliamentary inquiry in 1816 concluded they'd been obtained legally. He acted with the full knowledge and permission of the legal authorities of the day in both Athens and London. He preserved them for prosperity. And Suzanne Evans, we know that there's been this big campaign by George

Osborne to send the Algon marbles back. And even though there's been an official denial today, given this reportage came out of Athens, it feels almost inevitable that this is going to happen and we're going to lose them. I hope you're wrong, but I think it does feel a little bit like that. You know, we have George Osborne now, the former chancellor, who, as I said earlier, raised our taxes and behaved in a way that was anything but conservative, in my view, is now the chair of the British Museum. Why is he even talking to the Greek foreign ministry about this? He shouldn't be in my view, but he is. Toby Young's absolutely right. Very often this debate is framed as the Brits stole the Elgin marbles, Greece needs them back. Nothing could be further from the truth. You know, they were

rescued by Lord Elgin. They were absolutely, they were literally under fire during the Sixth Ottoman-Venetian War. They were seriously damaged. The building was being used as a garrison at the time. People were stealing bits of them, scavenging them for building materials, using it to build their houses and so on and so forth. Lord Elgin did rescue them with the full permission of the legitimate authorities at the time, as Toby said, and he did so at considerable personal cost. Nobody knows exactly how much he paid, but I think it was around £75,000 is the estimate at the time. That's about £7 million in today's money. Transporting them back to Britain, the ship they were on sank. It took three years and another huge sum of money to actually rescue them. So these marbles now have a very significant history as part of British culture as well.

I think what annoys me about this whole debate about the marbles is it's framed within the whole reparations debate, that the British Empire was evil and terrible and everything it did needs to be undone and overturned. It's the way in which it's part of the whole demonization of Western culture. And I think we just need to keep reminding people this wasn't the British Empire that stole the marbles. It was the Ottoman Empire that sold them legitimately to the United Kingdom. And in my view, this is where they should stay. Yeah, I mean, Nicholas Lesak, don't you think this sets a really dangerous precedent too? Because what are we saying? That you can only go and see an artefact in the actual country that it comes from.

I mean, that makes the whole concept of museums pointless. Well, I think it's completely and utterly ridiculous. The Elgin Marbles are British. They have been British for several centuries. And I notice the only people, the only people outside of the Labour government who appear to be keen to return them are woke celebrities like Stephen Fry and George Clooney, who, quite frankly, probably have absolutely no no clue and they're just jumping on the latest

trend to try and get a little bit of attention because that's all these people want but you know something museums are meant to grab things from all over the world it's meant to make museums are meant to sorry museums are meant to help people view things rather easily, rather quickly, rather expeditiously. I don't want to have to fly to Greece to look at the Elgin marbles. I'd much rather go down the streets and see them here. But in fact, it will encourage more people if we have interesting artifacts from across the globe to actually attend museums, to go in to learn more about history, because I think a lot of people just can't really be fussed to go abroad at the moment especially considering the um how may i say this rather poor economy and uh thieving rachel reeves's budget which might prevent some people from going and seeing the elgin marbles from whence they came but this also

sets another rather dangerous precedent are we going to return every single thing in the british museum that didn't come from the british arts what are we going to send back diamonds to india or a rock to australia that we picked up in 1831 are we going to drag stonehenge back from whence it came wherever the hell the rocks originally came from we're going to take it up to the highlands or something because that's where it came from it's totally ridiculous it's performative activism and quite frankly frankly, the Elgin Marbles are British. Elgin acquired them legally, as Suzanne points out. They were saved from destruction. And you know what? They've been on public display in England since 1807. They are a part of our heritage. And I believe around 6 million visitors per year go to the British Museum to view the Elgin Marbles. That's opposed to 1.5 million

visitors to the acropolis museum so more people are seeing them here anyway so if they want if they want these artifacts to be seen keep them here yeah and the guardian proving how much they hate us won't even describe them as the elgin marbles anymore so we know which side of the debate they are on standby Stand by Nicholas Lissac and Suzanne Evans, my superstar panel. The media hysteria over Greg Wallace gets more insane by the day but Katie Hopkins has made quite an intervention on this. I'll show you what she has to say in just one minute. But first you know how often I talk about the need for free speech to be protected. Well, I've been increasingly thinking of the need for personal protection online from snoopers,

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So go to www.surfshark.com forward slash outspoken for an extra four months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price. Or just click the link in the description box below this video. But now, back to the show. The mainstream media hysteria over Greg Wallace went up again today. The same MSM that you'll remember covered up for Jimmy Savile, covered up for Hugh Edwards at the BBC, refused to cover the true scandal of the grooming gangs, has decided this week that the MasterChef presenter

making some bawdy and gross jokes over a decade ago is the most important story in the country. And Sly News continued with their hysteria all day long. Hi, everybody. Very good morning to you. It's nine o'clock. Coming up on The Breakfast Show for you here on Sky News Tuesday morning, the actor and writer Stephen Fry tells us men who work in TV need to change. Well, there's growing pressure on the BBC to take MasterChef off air

while it investigates the conduct of its presenter, Greg Wallace. Stephen Fry called it a collision of generations and attitudes. And that complete obsession eventually forced the BBC into a U-turn over the past few hours, which will now deprive viewers of the show they love this Christmas. Well, let's get more now on the breaking news this hour. Two MasterChef celebrity Christmas specials have been pulled from the BBC schedule

in the wake of allegations about the behaviour of the programme's presenter, Greg Wallace. Let's bring in our correspondent, Amelia Harper. So, Amelia, the programme that's currently running will continue, but not the Christmas specials. Yeah, that's right. I think they'd been mounting pressure on the BBC, perhaps, to do something in...

But without a hint of irony, Kay Burley, mounting pressure on the BBC perhaps to do something. But without a hint of irony, Kay Burley, who if you were watching yesterday, you will have seen seem to take Wallace's description of his accusers as middle class woman of a certain age. She took that personally. She, without a hint of irony, made a joke about his sex life during an interview lambasting him for making jokes about his sex life. Watch. You feel that you look like the killjoy and the prude, but actually that's not what you are. But that can be how it feels. Absolutely. I'd be very happy for him to come and talk to me on the programme if he would like to at any stage over the next few days or weeks,

whether he wants to talk about his sex life or not. I can't imagine that that would take very long. As a former head of a news organisation, how should this have been handled? It's OK for her. Is it? It's OK for her to make a joke about Greg Wallace's lack of performance in the bedroom. That's totally fine. Once again, the media class remain completely out of touch with how ordinary Brits feel

about the story, as this call to LBC proved with Vanessa Fowles. An absolute hero, absolute fantastic role model to men everywhere across the United Kingdom. The contempt of men in society is just absolutely, it's turning off people. And Greg Wallace,

what an absolute strong male role model to come out and say something and face down these allegations about making inappropriate jokes over 20 years. At the end of the day, like Greg Wallace is an entertainer on mainstream TV. And when you're entertaining at top level, you have to be interesting and come up with jokes. Men across the UK are fed up with this. And Greg Wallace is actually going to become, this is a turning point for men in this society.

In what way? He's actually going to become a massive social icon as an alpha male, you know. But why, excuse me, hello, hang on a second, but why is it alpha to embarrass women or humiliate women? Hang on a minute, hang on. Or make sexually explicit comments about what you just did sexually to your young wife, to a woman who you don't know but are working with. I'm actually for equality. And if you look at equality and how men and women are measured, he's saying plenty of women in society make innuendo jokes and aren't held to account in this way.

All he's done is make jokes. Like Kay Burley did. Make an innuendo joke about Greg Wallace's sex life. No one seemed to care. A couple of sane voices on this. Nick Dixon posted on X, Greg committed the ultimate crime doing banter whilst being a white working class male. Calvin McKenzie added in a Times profile, Greg Wallace tells how in the old days when selling cucumbers in Covent Garden, he would shout all white love. It's not like your old man's. It won't get bigger the more you touch it. Oh, good to shoot me for laughing at that.

Cancel me for laughing at that. Kelvin said the BBC wanted a greengrocer for 20 years. They loved the greengrocer. Now they despise him. Grow up. And Katie Hopkins, has ever took a bold stand that wouldn't be allowed in the MSM? What's being done to Greg Wallace is a load of old shite.

I absolutely think it's bonkers that someone can come up with something that offended them 14 years ago and have a complaint about it today. I'm not saying I don't believe someone. I'm not saying those things didn't happen. I'm not saying they don't feel what they feel. I'm just saying after 14 years, sod off with it. Honestly, if it was just a joke or if it was just words, sod off. Really, sod off. If you're in the media, sod off. I mean, definitely if you're on your, like you're a little sweet person at home on your own and you're on your sofa and someone walked into your house and started kind of getting their penis out and

making a joke about it like oh look at my cock right okay fine that's not okay but if you're in the media and you work in tv or radio or newspaper or any of the grubby and gruesome industries that I've known so well for 10 years plus expect freaking things to be a bit wild sometimes expect a guy to make a joke about his knob i long for the days that people used to make jokes about their knobs i love the fact that when people see me they can be shocked by how rude or naughty i am suzanne evans there has been no sense of perspective about the story in the MSM. And there has also been no sense of due process.

I think that's right. And I think that's what I find frustrating. I completely disagree with that bloke who was talking to Vanessa Feltz. I think if what Greg Wallace is alleged to have done is true, I think he's bang out of order. I don't think there's any excuse for it. I'll be honest. But the way in which this has been hyped out is absolutely insane. So I was watching the BBC News last night and there it was, the lead story. And I just went, what the heck? Why is this the lead story? And it's still leading the headlines today.

You know, when we've got the French government on the brinks of collapse, I'd have thought that would have been a bigger story. And it's still leading the headlines today. You know, when we've got the French government on the brinks of collapse, I'd have thought that would have been a bigger story. We've got South Korea declaring martial war, I'd have thought that is a bigger story. And yet everybody's talking about Greg Wallace. It's absolute lunacy. The other thing, notwithstanding the fact that, as I said, if what he's said to have done, he's bang out of order, is the way in which this is basically a kangaroo court trial by media. He's been basically charged, tried, found guilty and chucked on the trash heap without having actually been charged by anything by the police. And, you know, the BBC hasn't even finished its internal inquiry. There's no suggestion of anything illegal. I mean, at max, Suzanne, surely this would be an HR investigation and, you know, perhaps a slap on the wrist, but that is not how it's being covered.

He is getting more scorn from the elite in the media class than Hugh Edwards ever did, which I find completely baffling. Now, in terms of the LBC caller, I think what he was referring to was not the jokes that Greg Wallace made, but instead his response to the jokes. So, Suzanne, let's watch this now and I'll get you to respond off the back. And apparently now, I'm reading in the paper, there's been 13 complaints in that time. Now, in the newspaper, I can see the complaints coming from a handful of middle class women of a certain age just from Celebrity Masterchef. This isn't right. Now, that's what the caller was referring to, Suzanne,

because if you look at the people like Asma Mir and Dorothy Byrne, who was there with Kay Burley and Kirsty Wark and Emma Kennedy, they do all come from that particular demographic group. Was it really offensive for him to point that out? Yeah, absolutely. Speaking as a middle class, middle aged woman of a certain age. Yeah, it was ridiculous. I mean, I don't know how he came to make that statement, whether he took advice or whether he just did it off his own bat. But it was absolutely not the way to respond to those kind of allegations. It was a classic PR failure, if ever I saw one. Now, Kate Burley was absolutely out of order, too. No doubt about it. What she said was bang out wrong. That also, I think, breaches every rule of independent broadcast journalism. She should not have said that. Absolutely not. But Greg Wallace's response, I mean, I'm sorry, what an idiot he was

to say something like that. And I think that actually proves, probably if nothing else, that he has no idea how he comes across to people or how he is seen. However, I also think the BBC now stopping those MasterChef

Christmas specials is again, ludicrous. Like you said, he's not been charged with anything. He's not been tried. He's not been found guilty of anything. And I really feel for the contestants who are now not going to see the programmes go out. I feel really sorry for them.

It's awful. And what about the people who want to see the conclusion of their favourite show? Not to mention the fact, by the way, that we have paid for these shows. We have paid for them out of our license fee payers money. Nicholas Lesak, so as a young man, where do you stand on Greg Wallace? Well, I may as well make it abundantly clear.

I do not like Greg Wallace and I will refer to him with one G rather than two. I think he is a bit of a prat. I don't like him partially because I remember he had an interaction on Twitter with a bloke who was doing a charity bike race for cancer. And because the bloke got his name wrong, Greg refused to promote it and instead responded, Greg with 1G. Who's that? So I don't really like him, but I will admit that this is completely ridiculous. I can't believe this is the number one story. There is so much going on in the world. There's so much insane stuff happening.

And yet, for some reason, the political establishment in this country are hell-bent on dragging Greg Wallace through the mud. It makes no sense in my opinion. Yes, he said some rather silly comments. So what? Who cares? It was over a 20 year period. I certainly don't care. I am infinitely more interested in Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, the situation in South Korea, the terrible budget and the impact it's going to

have on families, the winter fuel cuts and how many elderly people are going to freeze to death over that. I quite frankly couldn't care less about Greg Wallace's comments. I don't like the guy, but you know what? This is absolutely beyond ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. And no, I don't view Greg Wallace as a future alpha male Andrew Tate type of figure. Just because they're both bald doesn't mean

that he's going to be as big as Andrew Tate. He's going to have a fleece of 20 Bugassis and prison time in Romania. But so yeah no i i just go ahead well unfortunately uh he then u-turned anyway and he did what i describe as the hostage video apology this isn't what he thinks it isn't what he thinks. It isn't what he believes. He has the gun to his head. Probably his PR or his agents say, you've got to issue this apology. And here's what he said. I want to apologize for any offense that I caused with my post yesterday and any upset I may have

caused to a lot of people. I wasn't in a good headspace when I posted it. I've been under a huge amount of stress, a lot of emotion. I felt very alone under siege yesterday when I posted it. It's obvious to me I need to take some time out now while this investigation is underway. I hope you understand and I do hope that you will accept this apology. Now, Suzanne, you may disagree with me on this, but I went through the same sort of hysteria regarding my exit from GP News when Lawrence Fox made the comments that he did on on on my show and it was blown out of all proportion and when you are being hunted by the mainstream media like that like Greg Wallace I had all the TV crews outside my house. You feel completely under siege and you feel a bit like your life is over.

So I don't blame him for saying that. And no one gives a damn about Greg Wallace right now. No one gives a damn about his mental health or about how he's coping. No, I think that's right. And it goes back to what I said earlier. This is a kangaroo court trial by media, and it's absolutely wrong. You know, we have a, I know this isn't a criminal matter, but we have a sound principle in this country that you are innocent until you've proven guilty. And I think that should apply not just in the courtroom when things are a police matter,

but generally as a principle. And I'm increasingly concerned on a daily basis that this principle is being eroded away. And that would be devastating. It is vital that we keep that principle absolutely sacrosanct. And I'm afraid Greg Wallace, like you, Dan, one of its victims rightly or wrongly and and and like like Nicholas I've never been a great fan of Greg Wallace um but he doesn't deserve this well I don't watch the shows to be honest I once appeared on the show not it wasn't aired but I was doing a feature for the Daily Mail and so he was perfectly polite to me but I don't actually think there were any women in the room. But it is just worth pointing out for full transparency, BBC News are on this story and breaking right now, they report that MasterChef presenter Greg Wallace is facing fresh allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour. One woman says he touched her

bottom at an event and another says he pressed his crotch against her while filming on a different show. His lawyers have strongly denied he engages in behaviour of a sexually harassing nature. Well, that is potentially criminal, isn't it? Yeah, and to me, when it comes to these sorts of stories, I just think, why not go to the police? Well, I think there are lots of reasons why women do that. Probably too many reasons for us to go into now but I think particularly and I've been in this position myself working at the BBC formally

with an older man a very well-known presenter uh you know used to behave very sexually inappropriately with myself and various other young female stars and when you're very young and you're starting out in your career, you know damn well that if I or any of the other girls had gone to the managers, it would have been fact, not him. So I think there are lots of reasons why women wait a long time before making these allegations. And I don't blame them for that, frankly. So you're not with Katie Hopkins, you're not with Katie Hopkins, who says if you did this 20 years ago, it's too late, there should be some sort of statute of limitations. Absolutely not.

I mean, it depends on the crime in terms of statute of limitations, obviously. But no, my point is I wouldn't ever, I'm not going to name that man. He's dead now anyway. And, you know, I've moved on. It didn't particularly bother me. We just thought he was a dirty old man and we all laughed at him anyway, to be honest. I think there comes a point when you can sometimes take these things too

seriously. In our case, it wasn't serious sexual assault, as has just been alleged about Greg Wallace. Yeah, it's just, look, you're right. There's criminality which needs to go through a proper process, needs to be investigated. There's also something called offence archaeology, and that's what I have a big issue with because it's something driven by the woke mob. Now, let me tell you, in the newsrooms that I used to work in 20 years ago, that behaviour now, which I witnessed from older people in the newsroom, would be considered completely unacceptable. Back then, it was viewed as banter so would i try and get one of my bosses cancelled my former bosses cancelled 20 years later from what was considered banter in the newsroom now no i wouldn't and that's what i have an issue about with these stories yeah i i agree um i there's a there

is a line you know there's criminal sexual criminal sexual assault, very different from banter, inappropriate banter. And I've seen lots of inappropriate banter in my time. And you either say that's inappropriate or you just roll your eyes and move on. I just worry about the world that Nicholas enters into, though, Suzanne, if I'm completely honest. I do a bit too. I genuinely do. So for a young guy like Nicholas, right, and look, you're a very respectful guy and you have strong conservative principles. However, it's pretty difficult now without a consent form. I mean, that is unfortunately the type of culture we're entering into.

And I think it's quite terrifying. It really is. It really is absolutely terrifying. In fact, you know, my mum keeps telling me whenever I do stuff with women, I always have to get like a video of them saying, I consent, I consent, I consent. And that's because she's genuinely very afraid because a lot of young men these days, whether they've done anything or not, are accused constantly of sexual assault. And in the aftermath of Me Too, in which we saw some people who genuinely didn't do anything wrong and who were just accused after spite. I mean, this can ruin lives. People have taken their own lives over this. Well, I saw it with the Oxford University student the other day who was facing an allegation, an allegation. He was completely ostracized by all of the students. He took his own life.

So, look, I think having tasted a little bit of this, I come at it from a bit of a different perspective. We live in a world now, post Me Too, of MSM witch hunts. Now, there's a lot I don't trust the MSM on. So I'm not just going to automatically trust them when it comes to Greg Wallace. Let's go through the process and let's allow the process to play out. But wow, we've covered it all today, guys. What an absolutely fabulous superstar panel. Suzanne Evans, a good friend of mine, conservative commentator, former deputy chairman of the UKIP party, and Nicholas Lesak, Young Reform UK supporter. Thank you both so much. And we'll speak very soon. But coming up in the Uncancelled After Show, Angela Levin reveals all about the bombshell new German TV documentary,

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