Dan Wootton Outspoken - RUPERT LOWE SPEAKS OUT AS HE RESPONDS TO ALLEGATIONS BY REFORM, NIGEL FARAGE & ZIA YUSUF

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

MANSCAPED: Get 20% off + free shipping with the code Outspoken at https://manscaped.com The Reform UK civil war which exploded into public on Friday evening – with vicious statements on X, the weaponisation of woke HR processes and even spurious complaints to the police over an internal political party battle – has torn the heart out of the movement Brits hoped and prayed would be able to challenge the uniparty dominance that has destroyed the United Kingdom. Reform’s leader Nigel Farage and his deputy Richard Tice have both had their say. But today on Outspoken Rupert Lowe responds for the first time to the claims that have rocked the British right, including suggestions he has made death threats, bullied staff and is even suffering from dementia. The truth behind those smears revealed as he speaks to Dan live. PLUS: Farage ally Alex Phillips on why the Reform leader seems to fall out with any major name in his orbit. AND: Katie Hopkins in an astonishing attack on every major Reform figure who are letting down the silenced majority, as I call honest Brits sick of the destruction of our United Kingdom. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: We team up with the Royal News Network for all the news from the weekend, including Thomas Markle’s brutal review of hs daughter’s Netflix disaster With Love, Meghan. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No spit, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooten. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 179. The Reform UK civil war, which exploded into public on Friday evening with vicious statements on X, the weaponisation of woke HR processes, and even spurious complaints to the police over an internal political party battle has torn the heart out of the movement we hoped and prayed would be able to challenge the uniparty dominance that has destroyed Great Britain. Reforms leader Nigel Farage and his deputy Richard Tice have both had their say. So today on Outspoken, Rupert Lowe responds for the first time to the claims that have rocked the British right, including suggestions he has made death threats,

bullied staff and is even suffering from dementia. The truth behind those smears revealed in our exclusive live interview in just one minute. Also coming up on the show today, Farage ally Alex Phillips on why the reform leader seems to fall out with any major name in his orbit, and Katie Hopkins in an astonishing attack on every major reform figure who she says are letting down the silenced majority. Honest Brits, sick of the destruction of our united kingdom, how on earth can we reunite? Then in the uncancelled after show on the Substack, we team up with the Royal News Network for all the royal news from the weekend, including Thomas Markle's brutal review of his daughter's Netflix disaster with love, Megan. Sign up to

Substack. It's completely free. I'd really appreciate it. www.outspoken.live. Of course, we'll also reveal today's Greatest Britain and Union Jackass as ever at the end of the show. Your nominees for Union Jackass today, Bob Geldof, nominated by David E. Lamb for being one of the biggest lying crooked talentous POSs in England. This is, of course, because he made those comments about Donald Trump and Elon Musk, effectively blaming them both for world hunger. Zia Youssef, didn't expect to see him here, but he's been nominated by SK1P4NowWW, who said he tried to pull the wool over people's eyes. We know he's a World Economic Forum plant who's ruined reform. And nominated by Lady Claire, Yvette Cooper, for being beholden to Muslims and denying Ms Amos her right to an inquiry regarding her father's brutal murder.

That is, of course, in relation to the decision today confirmed by the government, Slippery Starmer and Yvette Cooper, that they will not give Katie Amess, a brilliant, inspirational woman, a public inquiry into the terror attack which killed her father, David Amess. Absolutely shameful. So get voting. You can do so in the show notes. But now, let's go. Rupert Lowe, welcome back to Outspoken. Firstly, I hope you're okay. I know that when you're in the centre of this sort of storm and your own employer turns on you, the people who you thought should have your back, it can be incredibly unsettling. But we have a lot of ground to cover. So I do want to get straight into it. And I think the most damning claim made against you by senior reform figures

over the past 72 hours, and this is, of course, their words, not mine mine but it's that you are an out of control a violent man who has made threats to party officials and is even suffering from early onset dementia and i know you want to respond directly so is any of that true well dan let me tell you this uh this this event on friday came out of the sun like a spitfire. There was no discussion before it, so it's mystifying from top to bottom, frankly. In answer to your question, how am I? I'm fine. Compared with football, this is child's play. Try sitting in a football stadium with 32,500 people chanting,

Rupert Lowe is a W-A-N-K-E-R, telling your wife it's not true. And the other favourite chant was, swing low, swing Rupert Lowe from the Itchen Bridge. So you're used to this. I've been through this. This is child's play. And the disappointing thing is it's very malicious child's play. I mean, people can judge whether they think I've got early onset dementia.

I mean, that really is that's that's going that's playing the man, not the ball in football terms. So, I mean, it's complete rubbish. And so no health concerns as far as you are aware? Absolutely none, as far as I'm aware, Dan. We never take our health for granted. As they say, health is wealth. And at the end of the day, if you don't have health, that's when you realise how important it is. So at the moment, as far as I'm aware, I'm absolutely fine. I'm functioning better than I probably have for a long time. Being in Parliament actually sharpens your brain, it sharpens your attentive skills and it keeps you on your toes, which is a veryraph over the weekend, which I believe was hinting at that dementia claim. He wrote, yet the fact is that sadly there have been too many similar outbursts from Mr Lowe, often involving the use of inappropriate language to the despair of our Chief Whip, Lee Anderson. I have been surprised and saddened at this behaviour. Certainly I never saw anything like it in the European Parliament in 2019, when I was the leader of the Brexit Party,

and Mr Lowe was an MEP colleague. So he seems to be suggesting, Rupert, that something has changed. And a lot of senior figures within the party are saying, oh, this is all very sad. Well, Dan, I mean, you know, it's absolute dri drivel frankly and but it is straight out of the playbook of the uh you know the conspiracy theorists if you want to if you want to damage somebody then start uh seeding this kind of rubbish um but look let people make their own minds up i i'm my brain is working as well as it's ever worked. I'm not here for personal gain. Make your judgments about whether other people might be. I'm here because I want to change the way this country is governed.

I'm hoping it's not too late. But I'm going to do everything I can to ensure that we try and bring back common sense government for the British people, to put the taxpayers at the top of the agenda, to deal with this mass uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, and to try and restore the Britain I used to know when I was young, which was probably the best place on earth to live. And I've just been talking to one of my few remaining friends in Parliament, the doorman.

They're great men. The doorman are fantastic people. They're usually the only sound ones there. He tells me that he thinks even if we win in 29, it's too late. I said, well, have a bit of hope. We've got to at least try. Well, look, I worry about that too. But look, can we talk specifically, because it's very important, Rupert, as you know,

that we go through some of these allegations that are swirling. So I think we should start specifically with the police complaint made by your chairman, Zia Youssef. Now, this was over a discussion that you had, I believe, face to face in December, yet it was only on Thursday that the complaint was made to the police. To me, that feels like a terrible use of police time at a moment when there's a lot of trouble in this country. And I don't think we should be wasting police time like that. Put that to one side, though. This, Dan, in answer to this one, so we can, I think though this this dan in answer this one so we can i think fairly quickly dispense with this one this was uh an argument i would say it was on the 13th of

december um but between zero and i who he sent a power email basically trying to undermine my position in Norfolk. And it was one-on-one. We had a frank conversation. I made my feelings known. And I haven't seen, spoken to him, nor have Reform head office tweeted or retweeted any of my stuff since that date so it's it's clearly a debate nothing was said as far as i'm aware he was taken in that meeting he was taken out of the house of parliament nobody has said one word about it and frankly if it was if he considered it offensive i think he would have raised it at the time. I just want to get specific. This is important. Because why would you sit on this for three months? Avoid me everywhere.

And since that time, I've been cut out of Reform party press conferences. I have been cut out of MP meetings. Nigel has refused to have dinner with me. I've been trying to give my opinion that reform needs to now, being leading in the polls as we are, and I think I've played a reasonable part in driving reform support. I think we need to change our emphasis from being a protest party to being a proper party with proper policies, not policies made up on the hoof, not policies sort of thought up and then delivered. We need proper experts in each field. It doesn't matter whether it's the field of tax, the field of the constitution. And I've been working hard behind the scenes to try and get some sort of logical think tank that bridges what I call the common sense element in this country. But Nigel didn't want to meet. I've tried on numerous occasions. One of his very close friends has tried. And indeed, my parliamentary office who one of whom knows him

very well has also tried uh indeed nick candy tried uh only on i think friday to or thursday it was thursday evening because i went to a fundraising event with him where i introduced him to two potential donors so he tried to set up lunch uh Nigel on Monday, which I could have attended. But Nigel said he was having lunch with somebody else. Well, from what I could see, the person he was having lunch with was not as. And it's downright unfair and unchristian, Dan, that the process that's been followed. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's just plain wrong. But what is it I think important for me to do, Rupert, as you know, I've been doing reporting on this over the course of the weekend, because I want to put to you what is being said behind the scenes. I think one of the terrible things about how the mainstream media and the political class work in this country is very often they whisper at each other, spread rumours

that can be false, and hide this information from the public. So what is being said, and no one has reported this, but what is being said, and no one has reported this, but what is being said, and I believe it's untrue, but I want to give you the opportunity to say it's untrue, that you threatened to slit Zia Youssef's throat in that meeting. No, that's, Dan, Dan, Dan, that's not right. What I did say after Friday was that the party had just slit its own throat. that's what i said about the party i i haven't so you weren't making a threat to him i didn't i didn't i didn't say that to zea by the way i i said that to my staff and i i i maintain that i think this is a most mysterious

and an extraordinary decision that was made um and you know know, so no, I haven't spoken to Zia or communicated with him, as far as I'm aware, since that day on December the 13th. And since then, as I say, I've been iced out of most of Reform's meetings, conferences. Indeed, one day I was doing an interview with Martin Dordney on GB News, and I arrived to do the interview and I was told there was a reformed press conference taking place so I couldn't do the interview. Well, I didn't even know. It's extraordinary.

Okay, but in that meeting on December the 13th on why this matters is it's the complaint that's been made to the police. And we have to know if this police complaint is being used really as the weaponisation of the justice system, or if there was anything serious. Did you threaten his life at all in that meeting? It was a robust debate about an email he sent. And I can't remember the exact words.

We were in there together. It was a robust debate because I was irritated that he was playing power games with Norfolk, which, as you know, is part of my sort of constituency. We've been busy setting up the local branches. Indeed, since Friday, they've suspended the branch chairman. And I was, you know, I've been around a long time. And by the way, I'm 67 and he's 38. So I don't honestly think that any credible emphasis can be given to what he said, frankly. But look, I've got my solicitors, Erwin Mitchell, have been sitting on hold for most of the day trying to speak to the Met. It's very difficult to get through to them. I've already teed up.

If the police wish to talk to me, I hope they will do it politely. I hope they will do it in a confidential way. And I hope that when we meet, they will show me what evidence they have for the accusations that have been made. Because I've lived 67 years in this country, and I've never been under police caution. I've never been into a police station for anything like this. I run multiple businesses. I've employed multiple staff. And let me tell you, I've had many messages from all of them saying they just simply don't believe what's happening. Yes. And even some of these staff members are speaking to Sly News this afternoon, hardly friends of Reform UK,

saying this is a joke. This is completely untrue. And I do want to come to the specific HR complaint in just a moment, because again, I've done a lot of reporting on that. And I think it's important the public know the truth. But before we get there, can we talk about the incident with Mike Kane in Parliament? Now, he is the Under-Secretary of State for Transport. I actually went back and watched the full exchange. We can put some of it on screen, Rupert, while I'm explaining what happened. And this was the last sitting day of Parliament in December. And you were actually incredibly jovial in your question to Mike Kane in Parliament. I posed 18 questions. If you go to Hansard, everybody can go and see what I raised.

Now, look, this is important. I don't think we can go into every twist and turn of it on your interview, Dan. It would take an interview in itself to do it. But the crux of the issue is that in the end, 300 plus tons of ammonium nitrate were dumped offshore my constituency in their plastic polypropylene double skin bags and i was cut out so this all happened uh when a ship called the mv ruby got into trouble uh it was allowed to dock at yarmouth again it was all taken over by the department for transport and again i actually personally in one of the questions I asked was, did this have anything to do with Louise Haig's resignation? Which I probably think it did.

Because the DFT, and when Mike Kane called me into his office a month later, and by the way, my constituency came within an ace of being evacuated at the time, without any discussion with me mike kane told me that it was a local issue when i spoke to the local politicians they told me they'd expressly been told by the tfdft that it was a cobra event and they shouldn't tell me so there's somebody's lying uh dan i'm not saying because i don't know who, but I know who I suspect it is. I was called into his office with one of my staff. He was extremely polite.

I listened to what he had to say. We talked about him being a Man City supporter, which he is, and I talked about Southampton. We talked football. And then he sort of made fairly light about it. So I did some digging, as I do, and I've now got a huge file on this. And I then emailed his office and said, would he kindly allow me another meeting because I got some questions for him. He sent me a curt email to say that he didn't have time to see me, I should pursue normal parliamentary procedures

if I wanted to get further answers. So I went and saw Sir Lindsay Hoyle, and I said, what do I do, Sir Lindsay? He said, I will give you an adjournment debate. The adjournment debate was selected for the 19th of December. It was the last business in Parliament before people broke up for Christmas. That meant that Mike Kane and I had to stay in Parliament right till the end. So it was at five o'clock and Parliament shut at 5.30 because an adjournment debate is half an hour.

Everybody can watch it. Go online and watch it. It's quite an interesting discussion. Yes, I've looked. So, look, I think Parliament, if it's functioning properly, should be a place of robust debate. I don't think the British public want Parliament to be a sort of sanitised forum in which everybody is nice to each other and no answers are given, which is actually what's happening most of the time anyway. And in the debate, that is exactly what happened. But the claim is that after the debate, you managed it. Hang on, watch the questions. And then the ball, the ball, you know, the mace was taken out of Parliament.

Parliament shut. I went across the floor and I asked, I said, Mike, when are you going to answer my questions? Because in his response and let people judge for themselves, he didn't answer one of my questions I posed. And this is quite serious for my constituency, because if you dump 300 tons of ammonium nitrate in the sea 12 miles offshore Great Yarmouth, even if you dump the nitrogen alone, you end up with huge algal blooms, you end up with eco-damage beyond belief. And in a society where people are currently fixated, quite rightly,

with not polluting the oceans, not filling them with plastic, I found it quite extraordinary that this had happened. And particularly when I spoke to the port people handling it, who said it could have been unloaded and reprocessed. Indeed, they said, had we put out a note to the farmers locally, they would have driven and picked it up and used it on their land. It was ammonium nitrate. I've got pictures of the whole thing.

So Mike and I, he said some ill-advised things to me. What did he say? Well, I'm not going to go into it because it's all been dealt with. It was dealt with by Parliament. But did he swear at you? I'm not going into it because I haven't made a complaint and nor has he. It's all been dealt with properly and it's been put behind us. And again, conveniently, this has all been dragged up

since since since by your own party which is what's ironic here not by labor by my own party by my own party why would labor why would labor drag it up then yeah why would they drag it up now now when it comes to the issues in the office and the so-called bullying. Again, I've spent the weekend looking into this. You can correct if anything that I'm about to say is incorrect. But there are two female members of staff, one in Great Yarmouth, one in Westminster. I'm not going to go into the specifics because I don't think it's fair to both ladies, but effectively, for different reasons, they are both investigated for gross misconduct. Then a third member of staff in your office, I have the name of this man and the woman being investigated in Westminster, are having a conversation, I

believe it was on WhatsApp, and he described a woman working at a council as a, quote, silly tart. Now, you are not even in these messages whatsoever, and my belief is that is the extent of the so-called bullying and sexism. Am I correct on that? Well, if you want the full timeline, so ultimately, you're right. There are two female members of staff involved. One worked in my office in Great Yarmouth, and her job was to handle the casework in Great Yarmouth. So I won't go into the detail, but suffice to say that she did something which the guy who runs

great yarmouth the great yarmouth office thought was inappropriate so a an employment process was started and with hr from parliament because what you've got to understand is these staff are not reform staff they're my staff serving my office and working on behalf of the constituents of Great Yarmouth. Indeed, I go to great pains to tell them that they cannot do any reform business while they're working during the day because they are parliamentary staff. And as I told you, I am in this to change the way we're governed and I don't want to be tripped up by any rule breaches which are avoidable. So there was a process started, and in the end, the lady concerned actually stepped down ahead of probably being dismissed for gross misconduct. Nothing to do with me. She doesn't work with me. she doesn't work with me she didn't work with me i had very little

contact with her because she i'm in westminster most of the time she's in great yarmouth reporting to the guy who runs the great yarmouth office who's a fantastic guy so uh the other issue uh was again my secretary in westminster and she used to be Andrew Bridgen's secretary. Yes. He's actually put out a tweet having spoken to her. She was a very good lady. She worked very loyally for me. But there was a contractual issue which she got wrong.

So I'm not going to, again, go into that. So, again, we started an employment process with parliamentary hr advised fully by them because if you don't if you don't use parliamentary advice you don't have insurance for employment issues going forward so it was all done all minuted and all done properly so in theory this issue that reform has used to beat me over the head with is technically a parliamentary issue rather than a reform issue but on friday not last friday but the friday before i think it was the 28th of february i got a suddenly out of the blue on friday afternoon a letter from lee anderson telling me that reform were looking into these employment issues now they'd made no effort to find out what they were all about they hadn't been involved in the sort of meetings with parliamentary HR.

And they said they wanted to look into whether or not there were any, whether there was any merit to the complaint that had been made. By the way, the complaint was made after the disciplinary process had started. So you could argue it was a vexatious complaint rather than a complaint that was made before, which I think would be more powerful. And indeed, during the HR meetings, the lady concerned was given an opportunity

to raise any other issues she wanted to raise, and she didn't. So look, again, I asked of Lee Anderson on the Friday afternoon, can you explain to me, again, I asked of Lee Anderson on the Friday afternoon, can you explain to me, Lee, whether this is a parliamentary issue or whether it's a party issue? And he didn't know. So I then asked a series of other questions, such as,

well, I won't go into them now, but I asked them, and they still then have not had an answer to those questions. I pushed for the answer to those. It also said, would I allow this investigation to go ahead? I said, I want answers to my questions, and subject to that, I will decide whether or not it's appropriate to give you permission, at which point I chased the following week, nothing. And then Lee, I chased him again again and then on tuesday wednesday he said we've appointed a qc or casey casey said fine so he told me the

name the casey i think on i can remember talking to her just before lunch on wednesday so i had a long chat with her and I explained the situation and I said, I don't think she'd even seen the letter they'd sent me, which, by the way, is a very weak letter, Dan. I've never seen such a poorly

drafted letter in my life. But anyway, that's precise. The letter from the KC or from the party? No, the letter from the party, the thing that kicked it all off. So I basically had a long chat with her and I said, when you uh get the questions i've

asked lee answer those i will then effectively uh decide whether it's appropriate but i said if you can justify that this is right that the right process i can assure you i will i will give you all the minutes of the meetings i will check with parliament they're happy with that i'll introduce you to parliamentary hr and we will absolutely clear this up so nothing happened so i chased uh i mean my whatsapp chain to this lady who's very very charming very nice i i've got on extremely well with them and And I said, you know, nothing. So by Friday, I was beginning to get slightly irritated that having been told I had till Tuesday to answer their letter, they hadn't bothered to come back to me with any answers to my questions. So I've been WhatsAppping her over the weekend saying, have you got the information?

She assures me I still haven't heard anything. she assures me she was going to have it today um so i'm still waiting so at the end of the day uh her point quite rightly and and the question i've raised is why would you send a letter like that before you know the facts dan it's it seems extraordinary she has now spoken to the bbc and i just want to tell you what she has said so you can respond rupert so this is the casey last night spoken to the BBC and I just want to tell you what she has said so you can respond, Rupert. So this is the Casey last night speaking to the political editor of the BBC, Chris Mason. I have seen a number of statements made by Mr Lowe MP, which attributed to me and which described my reactions to the process conducted by the party into the allegations made against both Mr Lowe MP and his constituency manager. I find myself in the unfortunate and regrettable position of having to make this statement to correct the record. I have not expressed either dismay or shock at any time as to the process, nor have I said there is zero credible evidence against Mr Lowe, let alone said this repeatedly.

Well, that's because she hasn't seen any evidence, Dan, as she's confirmed to me on a number of occasions. And I was quoting her words, because I drafted something I wanted to say, and she said, no, use these words. So it's on WhatsApp. But look, I don't want to cause her a problem. As you know, she doesn't work for me. She's not retained by me. She's retained by reform. So I guess she has to be professionally careful how she deals with this. So I think the important thing is that we end up with her report as to what she what she thinks. And I have every belief that she will find that this has nothing to do with me and if all parliamentary staff are going to be blamed for whatsapp messages that go between members of their staff then i

think we've reached a pretty low point so i i i think we'll just see we'll just see what we'll see what they we'll see what we'll see what she comes back with but it is very unprofessional in my view to send a letter like that and then go to ground i don't i don't think you can do that but then the article came out in the uh daily mail on wednesday i think it was. Was it Thursday? Wednesday or Thursday? Thursday, I think. And then suddenly, this happened on Friday. Now, I've been sort of, given what's been happening within reform, I've been turning it over in my mind. The question is, were they through that letter, that employment letter, were they teeing up what actually ended up happening on Friday?

And were they doing it in a disingenuous way? So we'll find out all this. And I will be and have been consulting with regulatory lawyers. I've been consulting with defamatory and liable lawyers. And I obviously have, as I told you, made contact with the police through my lawyers to ensure that this is all done properly. And, you know, we will deal with it in whatever way is professional and necessary. But as you quite rightly say, what happens is, and then we get this business of dementia, you know, being being being brought forward. I think it was was it early onset dementia or something?

I mean, people can make their own judgment on that. But I I find it quite extraordinary that this comes as well. So it's almost as if the sort of the attempt is to blacken a reputation which is completely clean. Elon Musk, when the world's richest man, senior member of the Trump administration, said that he didn't think Nigel Farage had what it takes to lead reform. A lot of that was over Nigel's response to the Tommy Robinson situation. Elon Musk is obviously paying Tommy's legal fees, views him as a political prisoner. So do I, but that's sort of by the by. Do you think it was down to that? And have you had any communication with Elon Musk since all of this? I think the first thing to say is I owe a huge debt to Elon Musk because without

my ex account, which gives me a voice. This may well have ended very differently, because I think in the past, anyone who has, if you like, a poppy that stood out too tall has been chopped down. But I'm a great believer in free speech, as is Elon Musk, and his platform gives a voice to people like me who are trying to bring about change. I've been thinking about it in my own mind. And I sort of wonder whether in a country that I think is becoming increasingly used to lies, somebody who stands up in Parliament and tells the truth is seen as a tall poppy. So with in answer to your question, Elon Musk is a very clever man. He's the world's most successful entrepreneur.

And I don't know what went on between him and Nigel, but for him to come out and say he didn't think Nigel was the right man to lead reform, that's his opinion. I didn't in any way lead the witness with that. And he didn't actually say I was the right person to lead reform. What happened is one of my followers went to him and said, did he think I was the right person? And he said he didn't know me, but he thought that what I put out on Twitter made a lot of sense. Now, that's a big difference to saying that I was the right person

to be running reform. And are you in direct communication now? Well, look, I've never spoken to Elon Musk. Do you DM each other? We've had a little bit of DMing on Twitter, but not big, you know, thumbs up or whatever. And he retweets quite a lot of what we what we put on Twitter. So or on X. So I that's the extent of it. And there is no more or less than it to that. So I,

you know, at the end of the day, I think I turn this over in my mind and I try to think, is it because Nigel thought I was getting too powerful? Is it because Zia Youssef thought that I was talking too much about deportation or even mass deportation or indeed the Pakistani rape gangs? I simply don't know. But I can tell you you I've always been a team player. And, you know, to be treated in the way I was was extraordinary. But I put up with it and I carried on because I believe in what we're doing. And I believe Britain cannot be changed without a new party from outside the existing establishment. So I've honestly turned this over in my mind, but I just can't understand the logic in what has happened.

I can't read that. Well, can I show you, Nigel? I can't read it. Hang on, Dan. I've got something the boys want me to read. Oh, okay, good. We'll have a look. This is what the KC I've got on WhatsApp.

Yes. To be clear, I was paraphrasing the KC in regards to those earlier quotes on the BBC. On Friday night, the exact quote was sent to me by the KC, and this is what she said. This is on my Twitter. I put it on Twitter so everyone can read it. I advised that you should

simply say the party was precipitous to state that these allegations had been made without also saying that the party has commissioned an independent investigation and the investigation has not yet got underway to look at all the evidence and evaluate

its veracity. That's her on my WhatsAppapp account so that is on my whatsapp anyway it's there for everybody to see if they want to but i i don't want to drop her in the proverbial i i mean at the end of the day she's got to do what she's going to do i just hope she comes up with an honest and accurate summary but the fact that the main protagonist in this uh work for andrew and andrew has spoken to and she has made it clear that i was i was in no way uh responsible for any bullying which was an accusation which is pretty foul nor indeed have i ever said anything inappropriate about either the disabled or women.

So that will all be made clear. But somehow the statement that went out on Friday was very loosely worded. And if you don't read it carefully, then you come to the conclusion that I'm presiding over an office which has a sort of institutional bias towards bullying, making stupid and unpleasant remarks and generally being unprofessional. Well, I frankly, that is completely and utterly wrong. The other briefing over the weekend, Rupert, is that you have somehow post this Elon Musk endorsement, tried to get too close to the, quote, online radical right. So this is in terms of a split with Nigel Farage, for example,

on the issue of mass deportations, demography, all of that type of thing. Is that true? Were they trying to tone you down? Was that what your fight with Zia Youssef was about? Because it seems to me like reform is trying to tack towards the centre on a lot of these issues. So, again, I did talk at one of Nigel's what I call razzmatazz shows around the country, which, again, I think we've moved beyond that. And I think what we should be doing is rather than doing that, we should be concentrating. Now we're leading in the polls. We should be concentrating on bringing about proper policy. So, you know, I'd like to see a policy on what we're going to do constitutionally, a policy on what we're going to do with regard to taxes. And I'd like to see corporation tax cut to the lowest. I do think we've got to deal with mass legal and illegal immigration as well as foreign criminals.

And we've got to deal with people who are living in this country illegally. If we don't, we are basically allowing the fabric of Britain to be damaged. And we're putting the interests of the honest, decent British taxpaying public at the bottom, not the top of the agenda. So at the rally, I did go and talk in the end because, again, I mean, one of the accusations is that I'm not a team player. Well, it's hard to be a team player when you're cut out of all the meetings and the press conferences. But I was it was suggested I should play my part. So I went and spoke in Kemi Badenoch's constituency in Saffron Warden, where I did give a speech about massive mass immigration. And I was told that I was I should downgrade my speech from mass deportations to deportations. I was also asked to amend it in another way, which I refused to do.

But I did downgrade. I took the mass deportations out. So I don't know whether this was the issue. I don't know what the reasons for this are. But I'm a man of logic, Dan, and I can't see any logic to the decision that the party made. And I don't in any way subscribe to unchristian behaviour in terms of making complaints three months after when you should have made it at the time. I don't subscribe to being unprofessional when you're looking at employment issues. They should make sure they avail themselves of the facts before they start firing off letters like they did

on that Friday afternoon. Again, Friday afternoon, oldest game in town. What you want to do is spoil somebody's weekend. You send them a nasty letter unannounced. Well, they did that. And then last Friday, 5.10, we get this this announcement, which, as I say, was very loosely worded. And unless you read it very carefully, you come to the conclusion that I should be wearing a mask and calling myself Dick Turpin. But it's just not right. So I and then the dementia business. I mean, that is frankly quite extraordinary. And it's vile. It's vile. It's just simply vile. So can I show you what Nigel Farage had to say about this? Now, this was before the announcement, obviously, of the investigation. But I still think it's fair to allow you to respond because he suggests, Rupert, that this is all about the fact that you want to become prime minister.

Why is Rupert Lowe going public with these comments? There's not something better to be had behind closed doors? Well, perhaps he wants to be Prime Minister. Most people in politics do. You know that, Harry. Half the House of Commons. I know you want to be Prime Minister. Half the House of Commons think they should be Prime Minister.

Have you had a word with him? His comments are wrong. His comments are wrong. We are making gigantic strides. Are you told to wind his neck in then? No point telling him what to do or what not to do. Fact is, we are making huge strides. So would you like to lead the party, Rupert?

Well, Harry Cole, as you know, is very good at stirring it up, Dan. The answer is, I'm in this, as I said, to change the way we're governed. I didn't come into this... Look, I'm 67. My wife's not entirely happy about me being up in London five days a week, going to Great Yarmouth on a regular basis, and effectively not enjoying what she saw as a happy and comfortable retirement, because I'm 67 and I am a pensioner, Dan. But I feel very fit. I haven't got any form of dementia that I'm aware of.

And trust me, if you look at my CV, I don't give up. So I am intent on at least having a go at changing the way we're governed. And when I sit in the House of Commons, I am shocked by the quality of MPs from which ministers are drawn. And when I sit looking at the front bench and I do a bit of work and I find that of 26 of them, only three of them have got a modicum of business experience, which I would dismiss in an iota if I was actually being crossed questions about it. Yes. OK, so the question is how?

Dan, these people look shocked when the answers to the, whatever it is, 930 questions that I've asked, they don't know the answers the civil service does. So I think what we've got here is we've got a charade in parliament going on meanwhile the 23 permanent secretaries are doing whatever they want they're unelected and they are i think now quite malign so i just don't know maybe maybe the state is coming after me i I don't know. But this could be a deep state attack. No, I'm not really into the deep state. I hope we don't need to go into the deep state.

But what I can tell you is that in any business, the board is supposed to hold the executive to account. The board is the ministers and the civil service are the staff. And what I can tell you is, I don't think that the ministers are holding the civil service to account. And I'll tell you, let me give you an example. So I spent again with one of my staff, I went and saw the DEFRA secretary to try and stop this nonsense of APR on farms, which is going to break the backbone of British food production. It's short-sighted, and it's really a terrible policy. And after 20 minutes, he looked me in the eye, and he said, Rupert, I just want you to know that, in my opinion, the public sector is very often more efficient than the private sector. And I said to him, well, Daniel, if you think that,

I might as well leave. And I stood up and walked out. And I think that is the low to which we've gone in terms of the Labour Party. I think their plan is to turn us into some form of sort of socialist utopia. But they're going to be snookered by, I think, an economy which is going to not be able to deal with these ridiculous tax increases

and which is increasingly looking to me as if we're about to have a currency crisis and a real major problem. So, you know, you can only tax the taxpayer so hard, a bit like a coal pony. If you keep flogging it, in the end, it falls over and dies down. And I think the taxpayer is pretty close to that. Oh, we are. So look, the question is not if you have something to contribute, you absolutely do. And from what I'm told, Rupert, I'm not sure if you know about this, but I've been told there are thousands and thousands of people, at least 5,000, who have

actually quit Reform UK as a result of this decision. So clearly you have a lot of support. The issue is where to now, because Richard Tice yesterday on GB News made it abundantly clear that regardless of the results of this investigation, he doesn't see a way back for you into Reform UK. Watch. It's a simple question, and I know you're good at answering questions, Mr Tice. If he's exonerated, is he welcome back in Reform? The whip has been withdrawn, and we want team players that will unite. I am actually. The whip has been been withdrawn and that should be the assumption.

So that should be the assumption. Is that your assumption or do you see a possible route back where you could sort things out, get in a room with these guys? Well, look, Dan, I mean, I think most people would agree that it is, it's slightly odd to make the judgment before you've got the facts, which appears to be what they've done here. They've then pursued a particularly malign course of action to try and blacken my name. So I think the first thing I want to do is is is is burn all those bushes and get that all out of the way because it's it's complete rubbish. Is there a way back? i think it's highly unlikely i mean i i i haven't to be frank this happened on friday afternoon i haven't even given it any much thought i've been literally on the end of a telephone all weekend

uh again much to the irritation of my wife the the weather was rather good. We did manage to get one walk with my Jack Russell, who I took a picture of. But look, I mean, I haven't had a chance yet to deal with the, frankly, the shock of events that I think have unfolded, both without any warning and without any merit. So let's see where we go. No, I understand that. I do just want to ask you, though, about your political future, assuming there isn't a way back into Reform UK, because I'm not sure if you're aware,

the shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp, member of the Conservative Party, has been very open about potentially welcoming you into the fold. Would you ever considering, would you ever consider joining the Tories? Well, look, I was a Tory, Dan, years ago. I mean, my sort of move away from the Tories started when I questioned the Maastricht Treaty, which, and and then i stood for the referendum parties you know and then i basically thought i've really always if you check out my career i've always wanted a sovereign nation with an accountable parliament and an accountable functioning parliament in westminster that's that's because i actually personally think

cooperating nation states are with with sovereign parliaments are the best form of global government unfortunately the post-war plan was to create a socialist globalist empire with no nations and that's what they've gradually been working towards and when the british people voted in 2016 to do exactly the opposite of that. The establishment didn't like it. So with the Tories, they've played their part, Dan, in where Britain is today. And, you know, I think Kemi herself has admitted that Boris with an 80 seat majority did less than nothing. In fact, I can't think of one thing that he did with that majority, which he could have done to clear up the way in which we're governed, to sort out our constitution,

to repeal a lot of the Blairite nonsense that took place between 1997 and 2010. So I think the Tories have got a lot of work to do to get their house in order. I mean, I think they've got to do a lot of work on head office and probably a lot of work on their what I call Lib Dem MPs. I think there are some extremely good Tory MPs. And I, you know, I get on and I get on. I quite like that idea. Rupert Lowe is leader of the Conservative Party. Maybe that could be a Conservative Party I vote for again. Do not get ahead of yourself.

Have you been talking to Kemi or not? She won't be keen on that, but I know there's a lot of other Tories right now who are rubbing their hands with glee. You've had another offer as well from the leader of the UKIP party, Nick Tenkony. Watch this. Rupert, hi. Briefly, no one believes a word about the allegations put forward to you. You've obviously made it very clear in your statement that it's all nonsense.

The British public believes you. The British public sees you as a man of the people. When you're ready to get serious and jump on the team for the big win. My line and door is open for talks. Call me. Would you consider that's a new one? That's a new one on me, Dan. That's a new one on me. I hadn't seen that before. I mean, I've literally been concerned with issues that have got to be sorted out for myself. But I look, I mean, who knows what's going to happen now? I haven't honestly since. What about your own party?

I mean, look, there are some great men, Rupert, who have been thrust out of Reform UK. I think about Ben Habib. I think about Howard Cox. Would you consider forming your own party? Well, I think you've got to've got again this is something for everybody to consider you've got to look at the pattern uh of relationships with nigel uh you know throughout his career whether it's carswell you know whether it's bloom uh whether it's almost anybody who is

in his view uh either threatening him or is capable enough to take over from him, he tends to fall out with them. And I think they, if you look, they've suffered a very similar to the fate, the one that they're trying to sentence me to. So I'm going to, I know Ben, I've worked in the European Parliament with him. You know, he's a very good guy.

But look, I haven't got to the stage yet where I can make any decisions. This happened at 5.10 on. But you're not standing down. You're not standing down. You say being Great Yarmouth MP is the professional honour of your life. And it sounds to me like you are very committed to saving the UK Dan, my constituents in Great Yarmouth

I think they're fantastic people I went east for a reason I went east because it's still a real community if you and I said to Ben he shouldn't have stood in Wellingborough but he's a very loyal man if he'd come east with me, which I did try and persuade him to do,

he could have won Suffolk Coastal, but he didn't. He chose to be loyal, and that's to his credit in a way. But if you stand in one of the shires, you are arguably in part of the country which has lost much of its heart. I think the coastal communities are still real people. They've been badly let down by the post-war establishment. That doesn't matter whether it's the farmers, the fishermen, almost every industry, whether it's processing industries of any kind. So I went east. I'm not intending to stand down. I've had many messages from Great

Yarmouth saying they've got my back. And I think if you go into a poll in Great Yarmouth, most of them appreciate the fact that I'm doing my best to improve many things in the constituency. And, you know, one of the things was this debate we had on December the 19th. And I would urge everybody to watch the debate, watch the answers and make your own judgments as to whether what happened was right and whether the response was fair. Well, you know, Great Yarmouth has a very special place in my heart. It's where my dad grew up. So, yeah, I think... Is it?

Yes, it is. It's a great place, Dan. I love it. I love it. Great place. Very, very fun. Just finally, I have to ask you about this, Rupert, because I think this guy is so toxic. And I hope that you do go through with it.

But I want to ask you about it. Femi Olawali, that very weird Ramona who is just spouting shocking nonsense online and he posted yesterday saying the reform party is a criminal enterprise referring to you 40 of the mps that sent to parliament are violent criminals according to reform uk itself and it's literally a business he then made this video watch oh my god like a couple of months ago i made a joke about how reform mps the five of them were just a bunch of liars racists and abusers of women but i didn't have anything for one of them because if you want proof of the downfall of men reform mps is a good place to start because like 30p lee nigel brexit farage, who the fuck, Richard Christian Nation Tice and convicted woman beater? Because I didn't really know him that well, but we have something now.

Now, you gave him an opportunity, which I thought was very fair to withdraw his tweet to apologize. He didn't do that. Are you intending to sue? It's with my lawyers. I had a long conversation with them today, Dan, and I will be guided by them. But I think they feel that what he said, the innuendo he spread and everything else was very definitely worth considering.

So we're on it and he will be hearing from them if we think it's appropriate. Trust me. Yeah. And I would absolutely love that because I know for a fact that what happens now in the political domain is that false allegations are amplified online by people who think they have absolutely no comeback. And it means that reputations like yours, which have been built over decade after decade, can be destroyed very quickly. However, though, not with my audience, I just wanted to show you this poll finally, Rupert. 40,000 votes who do you support in the Reform UK Civil War 43% team Nigel 57% team Rupert so the last thing I want to ask you Rupert I'm sure he is watching what would you say to Nigel right now is there any way back? Because so many people in the party are just desperate for you to

not literally kiss and make up. Sort this out. Well, Dan, I worked very hard for Nigel, even though he wasn't putting his arm around me. All he had to do was put his arm around me. And I think I would have I would have helped deliver his dream of becoming prime minister, if that's his dream. I did not come into this to be prime minister. I mean, most people would argue I'm getting a bit too old at 67. Oh, no, just look at Trump. Look at Trump.

I mean, look, I don't know where this is going to take us now. I mean, it's extraordinary. I've had calls from friends in Bhutan, walking in Bhutan, who said, we've just seen the news. I mean, lots of them, by the way, all over the world are making contact with me. Are you OK? I said, well, this is malicious child's play. It's like a cakewalk compared with football. So, look, I mean, who knows where we go? I'm really grateful for you taking interest. And, you know, this is the first interview I've done since the Friday sort of bombshell. And, you know, I say thank you. I think we've just about covered everything. We have. Rupert Lowe, thank you so much. I really, really do appreciate it. I think it was incredibly important for people to hear directly from you. And I'm delighted you didn't do it on a mainstream media platform because, you know, they can't be trusted in all of this either.

So, Rupert Lowe, thank you so much. Let's see each other soon, Dan. All the very best. Definitely. Thank you, Rupert, the MP for great Yarmouth, of course. Now, standby. don't go anywhere alex phillips the brilliant alex phillips who's been watching all of that will respond let me tell you though please do subscribe if you are watching on youtube or rumble and make sure you sign up at www.outspoken.live that is my sub stack and

a way for you to get everything from me first. But now, Alex Phillips is today's outsider. Alex Phillips, you have been watching that. You too, a former Brexit Party MEP. You too, a very close ally of Nigel Farage. You stay close to him, but I know you also have a lot of respect for Rupert Lowe. What's your take on this? Is there a way that this can be resolved, do you think? Yeah, I mean, hopefully they'd be great for this to be resolved one way or another, because what we do know is divisions in parties really don't play well publicly. We saw that with the fallout within the Conservative Party. And we live in a very strange era of politics now,

where things once upon a time that would have happened behind closed doors, let's say disagreements and arguments and disputes. And let's be fair, that happens in marriages. It happens in workplaces. It happens in offices. And it especially happens in politics, which is a high pressure environment, ideologically driven. You know, it is, it's unlike any other workplace you can imagine. So normally, this sort of stuff would have happened behind closed doors and would have

been concealed. And yet what we live in now is a sort of minute by minute news environment where you've even got the President of the United states having a twitter spat with the president of ukraine and it's this whole new world that we're having to embrace and kind of get used to um but i think there's a tacit lesson here that has always been true and should remain true that i think most people need to heed which is don't wash your dirty linen in public now i um you know nigel's Now, Nigel's one of my closest friends. I adore that man. You know, I'd lay down for him, lay down my life for him. He's brilliant.

There's no political leader like him. And Rupert is someone I also know really, really well. As a former Brexit party MEP, he is, you know, he is so sharp. He's so bright. He is, you know, real credit, actually. And I think he was really making waves as an MP. He is, you know, he is so sharp. He's so bright. He is, you know, real credit, actually. And I think he was really making waves as an MP. And I can remember sitting back watching all of this with such optimism, thinking this is brilliant.

Look at reform. It's really going places. Look at the credibility the party now has, even with just five MPs polling ahead of everybody else, because the legacy parties are just dead in the water. No one can trust them. No one can respect them. They're chaotic. They're divided. They're hypocritical. And so to watch this now happen is a bit like a Greek tragedy almost. What I'd say is I don't know what's gone on. I wasn't sitting in those offices. I've spoken to various people. I've heard various things. I really don't know. So I can't pass a comment on, you know, the situation any more than you can,

any more than anyone listening or watching this can. But what I would really hope is that it's interesting. At the start of his interview, Rupert was using the word we a lot. And when he was talking about reform and you think he's still in it, you know, and that's what's so sad, Alex, because I'm obviously spent the weekend speaking to lots of senior figures within reform. And I don't think they believe there is a way back. But, you know, but this is because it's all happened so publicly. And if you put things online now, something that might be maybe even a big problem becomes magnified.

It gets exacerbated. It's a bit like imagining two people going through a divorce and divorces, you know, horrible, acrimonious things. And every single conversation happening in the public domain, it sort of acts as an accelerant. And so ego gets involved. And then you have people who are taking sides and tribalism. And there are certain people who sit on the wings, like munching popcorn, trying to stir it all up, going, which side are you on? Are you team Nigel? Are you team Rupert? And I'm like, I'm team reform. Okay. I am team UK. I am team having the brightest and the best people running this country who have the right policies and the right convictions and the right ideologies. And I've been UKIP and I've been Brexit Party. And I've

been reform. And so I know who my team is. And my team is that team. And that team has always been led by Nigel Farage as the inspiring figurehead. And I don't want to see that change. I think there's been a lot of other people who have maybe, you know, really tried to maximise on frictions and problems and tried to make a mountain out of a molehill for their own interests. I don't know necessarily why they would do that. I don't know what their motivation is. Maybe they are aligned with other political parties. Maybe for them, this is all just a game. You know, they watch West Wing or something

and think that this is how it should be done. Absolutely not. I just hope that there will be a moment of sense. It's really hard, OK, when people fall out. I've fallen out with best friends before. In fact, this kind of reminds me a bit of being at girls' school, of sense it's really hard okay when people fall out i've fallen out with best friends before in fact this kind of reminds me a bit of being at girls school where all of a sudden someone's not in the group not in the cool group or possible like someone else and they're pushed out and then

you know there's a sense you're giving me hives thinking about high school yeah yeah i get you speaking to that person the playground it's like when are you spoken to them you can't now come sit with us in the canteen it's you know that, there's a lot of that going on right now. Can't you play mediator, Alex? You know all of these men. Can you like set up a WhatsApp group and just say, guys, I want to bang your heads together, bring you all into a room. Let's talk this out. I think you're the woman to do it, you know. Maybe I should set up a little office in Westminster as some sort of mediator and light some incense sticks and have some crystals for good energy and a dream catcher or something. I don't know if only it were that simple. But the problem is, these are brilliant men.

These are all leaders. OK, so this is what you've got to remember. They're all alpha males. They're all leaders. They're all people who are used to, you know, being at the front, being the vanguard, not being the staff of, not being, you know, a subject of. And there'll be a lot of ego and pride at play and a lot of conviction of this is the right way. And you're the one who's messed it up. No, you're the one who's messed it up. And this must happen. What I want to say is this must happen in all political parties. Otherwise, they'd be full of pointless people right if everyone in political parties was sitting there with a ukulele singing kumbaya like nothing would get done so you know the strength of character and the strength of conviction on the flip side of this

it's like two halves of the same coin comes this sort of you know this intransigence at times this maybe being a little bit slower to reconcile. And I just think a lot of people watching this right now and listening right now put their hope in reform. They thought, this is it, finally. You know, Brexit, we had that. We were ignored. We'd been ostracized, pushed to the sidelines,

bullied, alienated because of our beliefs. They've seen what's gone on in America. And remember, of course, there's because of our beliefs. They've seen what's gone on in America. And remember, of course, there's been fireworks in America. At one point, J.D. Vance and Donald Trump weren't exactly best mates. J.D. Vance had some pretty choice words. Exactly. So there's hope. There's hope. There's hope. There is hope. We've got to, I still hold on to a little bit of hope they can turn around. Alex, I do want to ask you about the personal criticism of Nigel Frysh because I've seen so much of this over the weekend. Now, interestingly, we both work with Nigel.

You work with him far closer than I did, but I worked with him for three years on GB News. We shared the primetime lineup. He came on my show every single week without fail, and I've never fallen out with the guy. So I think that is worth saying however that's not really where the discussion has been online over the past couple of days christine hamilton uh posted about this good friend of mine i mean you weren't blaming that you're bringing christine hamilton into it the wicked witch of the west well she said this is mirror image farage behavior against anyone he perceives as threatening his supreme

authority it mirrors what he did to hubs and ukip over 10 years ago inventing false allegations because he was too popular with the members and supporters slap down with venom anyone who threatens or questions the great leader a great leader delegates then lance lance foreman posted, he was a Brexit party MEP with you guys, saying the mad thing is we all like Nigel and think he's great. I don't know why he feels threatened when he has good people around him. Clearly an insecurity. If he called you now and had dinner with you and Ben and sacked Zia, his credibility would skyrocket.

So what is it? Is Nigel threatened by strong people? Because you're strong. He's not threatened by you. Let's just pick off. Well, I think it's because I'm a woman. So I've got emotional intelligence. So I know how to handle people a bit better, perhaps. Let's pick off the first. I mean, Christine Hamilton, the Hamiltons were, because I was around in the Hamilton era. It was a screaming mess. It ended up, you know, basically sending UKIPs a dustbin of history. Yes, it's under new leadership or whatever now. But, you know, the UKIP, which was Nigel's UKIP, had to end up being binned because there were all sorts of nefarious plotting and factions going on on the National Executive Committee. And just to let you know about those people, I remember when I was working over in Wales, they started doing mad things. Like they actually said,

they reported me to the Welsh police for misuse of party funds or something crazy. And then they phoned up journalists and went, oh, you know, she's going to be investigated by the police. And then ended up having to be questioned in Brussels under caution by Olaf, the fraud department. Because the accusation was that I was being paid by the European Parliament as parliamentary staff and working for the party domestically. I mean, it wasn't even remotely true. I wasn't, you know, so that wasn't actually employed by the European Parliament at all. But that's the sort of games they played. So I don't want to hear anything from that woman

about decency and probity and honour in politics. She can zup. Now, Lance, I'm fond of Lance. I really, really like Lance. But Lance defected to the Conservatives, OK? I remember when we first set up as a political... There's a group in the European Parliament and there was a big discussion

about whether we go join a larger group involving other countries and other political parties as a cohort in the European Parliament. And if you do that, you get more staff, you get more funding, you get more resources. But this would mean sitting with people, smaller parties from other countries who were suspected of having anti-Semitic viewpoints. And so we sort of had a discussion as a group.

The positives of what this would mean were laid out. And, you know, Lance said, I can't, I just can't do that. And we said, absolutely, okay, we're not going to do that. And it was Nigel who led those discussions. And it was Nigel who had that collegiate approach. And like I said, I'm a big fan of Lance, but again, I'm not, I don't want to sort of, you know, I don't think he might be sitting there as one of the popcorn eaters. And the thing is, we do all that. So I guess your point, Alex, is that all of these specific fallings out have a story behind them. It's not as easy to say, Nigel Farage, bad guy who falls out with everyone.

That's your point. We fall out with everyone. That's your point. He falls out and lots of people have fallen out of lots of people. We fall out with people in life. It happens. You know, you and I both, you could say, fell out with a particular character at GB News and we're not there anymore. That's the understatement of the year.

You know, everyone finds people in their own way. The thing people don't understand about Nigel, actually, is he's very non confrontational. You might you might find that surprising, but he's actually he does not like confrontation at all. He's very robust publicly. But actually, you know, when things get a little bit. Difficult if he's got issues, he's more of a shutters down person okay and so it's a bit like if I could have you know if I could have spoken to someone like Rupert sooner or you know when Ben also sort of you know had his moment and got frustrated if I could have said to them actually you know when it comes to Ben again someone I I loved a bit

a very dear friend of mine. And I said to him, just, you know, put the toys back in the palm. Calm down. This is the way to do it. You can't turn around and say to Nigel, you must meet me in my office at this time. This is the way to handle this situation. And no one listened to me. If only they did, life would be better. But the thing is, you're dealing with big characters. And what you need when you've got a big character and a brilliant man like Nigel is you just need to have the right, a good team around who are able to handle things professionally, properly. I'm not saying that isn't what's happened this time. I'm not in reform.

You know, I'm not there in the middle of the offices involving myself. But it would be utterly ridiculous and suicidal for the party to suddenly go, right, that's it. We're getting rid of Nigel. That's crazy. Let's not do that. But at the same time, isn't it just tragic and heartbreaking to see what has happened so publicly, whatever was going on behind closed doors to see what's happened so publicly with someone like Rupert Lowe who really was you know really making waves politically gathering a lot of admiring fans and you think with so few of them in the party they should have been able to sit down and somehow resolve this I mean sometimes you have to put things into perspective I'm going to play psychologist stroke therapist here sometimes you have to put things into perspective. I'm going to play psychologist stroke therapist here. Sometimes you have to put things in perspective.

We all have moments where, you know, I might wake up and have a big eczema tackle over my face and want to sob in front of the mirror. Oh, this is terrible. Still beautiful. Still beautiful. No, thank you.

You should see it under the makeup. And you have to say to yourself, am I dead? No. Have I got a terminal illness? No. You know, in three, four days time, is this going to have cleared up? Yes. Is got a terminal illness? No. You know, in three, four days time, is this going to have cleared up?

Yes. Is it a chronic problem? Is it going to come back again? Yes. So how do I make sure I manage things so I kind of minimize or mitigate the impact of it in future? And I think that we all need to take that approach to the relationships in our life. You know, my poor long-suffering boyfriend, God bless him, sometimes must, you know, think very clearly. And he said, I've got to dump this woman. She's a nightmare. But then you remember you love each other and you work through it. Humans are messy. Humans are complicated. Relationships are so difficult. There's barely democracy in a marriage or diplomacy in a best friendship. We all piss each other off, quite frankly, on a regular basis. And so I just think, you know, it's one of those situations where just anybody who is involved in politics needs to go, right,

this person's got on my wick. And this applies to both sides in any dispute. How do I step back? How do I take some time? How do I give the other person time and space um and how do i try and be thoughtful about what is going to exacerbate a situation and what's going to mollify a situation and in this instant two things have massively exacerbated what clearly was a situation happening which shouldn't have been made public the first thing was and i admire rupert greatly but you know that interview of andrew pierce what are you doing you don't do that like that that's not how frustrated you are how much you might be pulling out your hair going to a tory affiliated journalist and saying well you know the leadership of the party should change do you honestly think

that's going to make things better or do you think that's probably going to make things worse so that's number one and then number two the party then sort of came out with that big statement saying oh you know bullying claims and all of that's then pushed right into the public domain so everybody's speaking now about these huge fallouts in reform rather than the greatness of reform and we've just learned there's going to be a by-election now because mike ainsbury's quit as he should have done yes that's just broken while we've been doing this interview believe it or not reform that was their seat to win it was i know to be on the front foot and so this is what i mean you know the old adage is don't write things down unless you really want people to hold you

accountable for it no very good point this ended up with just madness all over x that this one putting out this statement later then someone says this and it's just can you just all just go on holiday for a week to barbados or something um have a pina colada and come back when you're a little bit with that right now uh alex katie hopkins has been very emotional about this very very emotional i do really want to play you what she's had to say because she says she's been holding this all in and i think it is worth watching i'm pretty sure you're going to agree with her in a lot of ways, Alex, but stand by because I'll show you that in just one minute. But first, this episode of Outspoken is brought to you by Manscaped, the global leader in men's lifestyle and grooming. Every man knows the unbeatable feeling of a fresh barbershop shave. Now, what if I told you that you no longer

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But now back to the show. Breaking right now, Katie Hopkins has given an emotional response to the civil war within Reform UK. Watch. It doesn't matter about the boys on the stage. Their duty is to the people, to show up for the people and to reassure the people that the fight is on. It isn't to stand there and take the applause and nod and smile into your gay little mic before you get your helicopter back off to your luxury accommodation, you bunch of absolute c-words. And Lee Anderson, you absolute c-word. And Nigel Farage. And as for you Zia Youssef, frankly, and I've wanted to say this since the start, you can F right off. Because as far as I'm concerned, you're the problem. You've been the problem for a long time. And the thing I haven't been able to say because I've been politely holding the line because it's the right thing to do is that since you came along, things have changed. Nigel has withdrawn. Nigel has

pulled back. Statements about immigration not there anymore. The fight being taken away. Suddenly we're compromising. Suddenly it's very important that we recognise the importance of the Muslim vote. Suddenly pulling back from the principles on which people need to join this fight. And we've watched it happen. We've held our tongues because we knew that the important thing was to hold the line. And look what you've done. You have just crapped all over decent, ordinary people who gave you their money. But not even the money because we don't really care about money at this point.

Most of us have got to the point I did long ago. We have nothing to lose. We're all in. And look at Tommy sat there. He's so all in. He's in solitary confinement because he'll fight for his people. And you lot, with all that money you've got sloshing around with your big fat dinners and your big fat private planes, laughing to yourselves as you private jet off somewhere else, laughing at the little people. Look at you. You should all be ashamed. She was very emotional, as you could see. But I should point out, Katie Hopkins has been a big supporter of Reform UK.

She's turned up at their rallies, even though she remains an outsider in the party. They view her as radioactive, don't want her formally part of it. So she did have a solution, though. Watch. In all the years I've watched all of this, from UKIP and beyond, and it is beyond belief what you've just done. You are a despicable bunch, and I am perfectly prepared, as will so many other people be to move

on from this this is the way to deal with this is to say it put it out there and then say do you know what tomorrow we'll put close the door on this and tomorrow you you idiots all five of you and the others and the rest of the griping sniping whatever sort this shit out and by tomorrow morning you better have a plan and then you shut the door on this say look we all had a funny five minutes we all acted like jerks we recognize ordinary people deserve better here's the plan you've got 12 hours to sort this shit out so alex phillips i know she was angry right but but effectively you're saying the same thing which is bang your heads together sort this out because this needs to be about the people not about your egos i mean mean, it's again, it's sort of like, you know, women can be awful,

factional, plotting people who love using reputational damage as a weapon. Women do that better than men. But blimey, it is one of those situations where you feel a bit like a headmistress and going, oh, my goodness, I don't care who's at fault or who threw the paper aeroplane first. You've both got detention. But one thing that has alarmed me, actually, is there's a lot of people who sit on the sidelines and you know follow reform on x on social media really love the party want to support them who will always love nigel farage um who loved what rupert lowe was saying he just wants everyone to get along this has sort of spurned this huge wave of attack against zia yusuf and i'm like where do people get that from they don don't know him. They're not sitting, not fly on the wall in the office knowing what's being said. And it alarms me, actually, because that that that is, you know, that that's people sort of, you know, putting two and two together and getting five. And I wonder what the motivations are for doing that. So I needed to say that because, you know, I don't. Why is this sort of, you know, all about becoming personified as one one man i don't think that's the right thing to do it is interesting alex because even gb news though which you would imagine is

usually well it is usually very pro faraj i mean this is his employer even they have been expressing a bit of criticism. This was from Saturday. It does. Until I see concrete evidence, and if I see concrete evidence, I will retract my comments and I will apologise on air. I'm saying that this is a political assassination and not a serious investigation. OK, well, why do you say that? Why do you say it's a political assassination?

I think it's really important we get the facts out of this because the audience will want to know everyone's... The first reason is that these allegations haven't popped up in the last week they popped up in december and uh and reform have been sitting on this for three months and it just so happens that they tend to go to the police the day after rupert low has made comments which could potentially be pursued uh perceived as disparaging towards faraj this to me looks like like a denial of Farage's ego. It is not a credible investigation. What did you think, Alex?

Yeah, do you know, the fact of the matter is the timing of the reporting to the police a day before a statement is put out, it doesn't look good, does it? I mean, from an optics point of view, and let's talk about that from an optics point of view, because I don't know what's going on and the heave-ho and who said what and when and this that and the other but you know it's a bit like when they when the statement was put up and they decided to put um you know hide comments from forgetting that Elon Musk has made it quite clear that it shows that you've hidden the comments from someone so this is just sort of you know is this a management question more than anything else when it comes to how to do PR properly um but it you know the difficulties it's a bit like when people sat there during the

Wannifer Christie thing and or you know the Johnny Depp what's her face you know I can't remember her name now but when all of that was going on they had the big court case of the divorce and she crapped on his bed and he did something to a dog or whatever it is um and and the point of that is we're not in this relationship. We are bystanders and spectators and it's juicy and it's salacious and it's interesting. But if you really do politically support reform and want things to move forward, do what Katie was saying.

It's not very often I find myself saying, listen to Katie Hopkins. She's like, you know, the mother giving the best advice here. But take a step back, shut up. Just, you know, the mother giving the best advice here. But take a step back. Shut up. Just, you know, let it resolve if it can resolve. Hope it's going to resolve. Because all of these people piling in with their thoughts and their comments, and it's this person, it's that person, and then this happens.

I mean, it's great. We're all armchair spectators in this fascinating cinema. But this is our country we're talking about. Because this is the political party that is supposed to be saving our country. That means something. It means something to me. I'm sitting here as a bystander thinking, I can't, you know, there are people trying to drag me in this way, in that way, saying, oh, you know, Alex, you know, this person, you know, that person, can't you do something? And I'm like, no, I don't think I really can, you know, but we all want things to resolve.

Because the problem is, Alex, what you are seeing is the mainstream media obviously salivating over this, like John Sopel, who has never given a damn about Reform UK, all of a sudden jumping on for the fake news agents, taking Rupert Lowe's side. And Gwaine Toler, who's a great guy, used to work with him at UKIP, and he stayed loyal to Nigel for a long time.

He was treated, I think, appallingly by Vanessa Felt yesterday on LBC. Not sure if you've seen this, Alex, but have a watch. This is just very poor PR for the Reform Party. People have often suspected that members of Reform, or at least some of the kind of official members of reform are lacking social skills. And that's a euphemism. Do you think this is... Hold on, hold on. I was doing that for a while. I've got plenty of social skills. I don't know whether you have or not. You've come on the radio to talk about something and immediately you've pretty much destroyed the entire conversation by saying that nobody really cares about it. Obviously, you've been invited to discuss it because we are interested in it.

The press are going huge on it. It's massive online and on social media. It is interesting. I don't know how many social skills it shows to come on and say immediately there's a story that is of interest to no one. And yet you're spending your time talking about it. So am I. Not sure that's the case. But nevertheless, do you think this could have serious permutations and ramifications for reform? Yes, I do think it could if it isn't sorted out quickly and amicably and decently and reasonably. It's not very amicable at the moment, is it, reporting to the police?

I agree. It doesn't look at presence, and therefore cooler heads, I think, are required. It's a very strange world we're in where internal discussions are put on Twitter and followed by X hundred thousand people. It's negotiations in public and waving to your fans is always a funny way of doing things, I find. See what I mean, Alex? So Gawain basically says exactly what I said. We live in this really strange world now where we get a blow-by-blow account of a fallout, all sort of, you know, performed like a pantomime or a Greek tragedy on X.

And then, of course, media are going to go after it because reform's polling the highest. So anything about a dispute in reforms is going to get a load of clicks because there's a load of people who want to see reform fail, who will be avidly following all of this, hoping it gets bigger and worse. And then you've got a load of people who want to see reform fail who'll be avidly following all of this hoping it gets bigger and worse and then you've got a load of people who absolutely love reform and like i said they're leading in the polls by a notch depending which poll you look at who will also be watching it out of concern so this is perfect media fodder i mean vanessa felt talking about social skills this woman writes newspaper columns about her vagina i mean you know i know exactly the irony the irony of this um it is interesting

though alex because of course the tories are also piling on the same i don't think you can really blame them for that but there was an interesting exchange uh between your colleague on talk my friend james whale and mark francois who's now Shadow Defence Secretary, on talk. Watch this. It's been an open secret at Westminster for some months that Nigel and Rupert, for whatever reason, don't get on. They had a daft spat over a 10-minute rule bill a little while ago. So it's not giving it's not giving away the, you know, the Trident codes to say that Nigel and Rupert don't get on. Rupert gave this quite punchy interview a day or so ago

to the Mail, I think, when he was quite critical of Nigel. It was like a little spoilt brat giving an interview. Well, for whatever reason, he did that, and now suddenly he's had the whip withdrawn so i mean look james obviously he's a good friend of nigel very very pro nigel but you can't really blame mark francois and the tories attempting to capitalize on on this can you i mean that's politics and you know what you know you asked me put something online so do you think other hands are involved in all of this and do you think they have their own motivations? And I always think this is politics. This is about who's going to be leading the country in four years time. You know, if you look at the dirty tactics and the games that political parties play,

I don't think it's too conspiracy theory to imagine there might be people with other interests who are there actually in inside the the mess stoking it up I think that is to be expected okay and I just want to reiterate what Gawain said which is about cool heads that's what's important right now and actually sitting back and you know it's a bit like going to a therapist you know and trying to save your marriage and saying so what is it that's so important it's the kids right it's the kids and when it comes to the kids that's me that's you that's everybody listening that's the country okay we are the kids in this situation think about us and just try and find a way however it's going to look if it can't be resolved actually part with dignity if it can be resolved give it the time and the space

and the thoughts to make sure that happens. Stop throwing things on the press. Get off bloody X for a change. Don't write things to newspapers and moan about other people. Read a press statement through 25 times and maybe give it 24 hours before you send it out to really reflect and go, is this the right approach i'm not criticizing either side here specifically what i'm saying is it's quite clear that all of this is a goddamn dumpster fire at a time when there's a by-election that we all

wanted reform to win so you know sort it out yep the mike the Mike Gainsbury, because Mike Gainsbury has of course stood down. I want to play you one final video, Alex. This is from a mutual friend of ours, Liam Tufts, who runs the Very Good Dozen podcast. Now, he was emotional last night. You could see it. And I think a little bit angry. And I sensed a lot of people feeling this.

So I'm interested in your view on what he had to say here. Rupert Lowe is the only MP that I can ever remember standing up in Parliament and speaking for the forgotten people, the hardworking people, the neglected people and the downtrodden people. And I know that financially he is secure. So he has no need or desire to do that unless he sincerely means it. Alex, I mean, I think he's been for a lot of people there. Yeah, and also, there's someone else who's always spoken for the downtrodden and the unheard, and that's Nigel Farage at Great Sacrifice, you know. The same is true of Richard Tice. Richard Tice has plenty of money in the bank account. He doesn't need to be doing this either.

Good point. is true of Richard Tice. Richard Tice has plenty of money in the bank account. He doesn't need to be doing this either. What unites people in reform is conviction and actual ideology. They're not in politics to be little celebrities. They're not in politics to earn a salary and become directors on boards and then sell their lobbying services at a thousand pounds a day. That isn't their motivation. And you know, I said earlier, actually, that that is that drive and that passion and that deep seated feeling held by actually very impressive people. The flip side of that is actually probably more of a likelihood to set off a spark in a powder keg. Do you see what I mean? If somebody is sort of dozer and compliant and in it to just tug their fall and go, yes, sir, no, sir. Oh, you know i'm in the tories i want to be a tory mp but immigration should be less and then they actually don't do anything they don't stand up for their convictions or their beliefs they're worth nothing they're

just like a whole load of soldiers without a weapon there's no point to them whatsoever the point that unites everybody in reform is that they are in this because they believe not just a little bit, not just enough, very passionately. And so the flip side of that perhaps is, you know, when there are these discussions, these disputes, no one wants to back down. I don't know. But we, you know, we as a country need reform. We as a country need inspirational leadership. We as a country need a strong shadow cabinet. We as a country then need a brilliant, talented, motivated cabinet where people can all look after their own agenda, look after your portfolio, drive forward change, but sit with each other in meetings and say, how can we communicate and work together?

And the thing is, no party's ever going to agree on anything you know that is politics that's life so you've got to find a way through that somehow and i think maybe on on i would hope maybe on both sides here that when they look at what's gone on for the past week i hope that what they see is it's been a huge sad sorry mess at a time when the party was riding high i hope that they've all got this sense of takeaway of what a bloody shame that at the moment we should all be celebrating instead reform is being spoken about in these terms yeah well i'm told nigel is pretty low at the moment that's what i'm told has His confidence has been knocked by this. He'll be extremely upset because I know him and I know how much he cares. So, like I said, he's largely a non-confrontational man.

He might be a robust, brave politician, but in personal affairs, he really is not like that. He's lovely. He's a man with a massive heart a huge heart um so i'm sure he is very upset by it i'm sure quietly despite the sort of you know um not gung-ho attitude rupert's very upset and i think something that you know i think it's very upset he kept saying the word weak. He kept saying weak. He's not thought himself out of reform. I'm sure you were the same, Alex.

But when my departure from GB News happened, and I feel the circumstances were similar in some ways, that was the thing. It's you've really got to stop and be like oh no it's i'm not part of that anymore because they don't want me to be part of it it's hard and that's why i do feel sorry it's it's really hard because we both went through the same thing but i didn't i didn't keep calling them we i talked about them and i've always been you know supportive of them gb news um here not maybe what a certain character but i've always i certainly say them now it took me a little while to to get there you know um become of them you know wouldn't it be nice if it's a week yeah well i hope they are able to sort it out alex phillips

uh so brilliant to have you a little bit later today thank you for sticking around and thank you for sticking around incredible we thank you for sticking around. Incredible. We're going to do the Greatest Britain Union Jackass in just one moment. First, though, loads of super chats from you today, which is so cool. Thank you so much. Find Your Way Ban posted reforms membership ticket is going downward for the first time. We are with you, Rupert. As I said earlier, I'm told it's about 5,000 down, maybe more. Let's see. Thank you to Night Stark. Carl Brockwell posted, please join UKIP, Rupert. Sam Sci-Fi said, Rupert's the sanest man in the country. Matthew Wiley wrote it,

will Rupert remain in India or join another party? You did see I asked him that. Interesting. He didn't rule out joining the Conservative Party. That would be quite something. Nina Varnava wrote, sounds like jealousy because Mr. Lowe is so well liked. Reform has to get its act together and get rid of Zia. Jaram posted, no Nigel, no Rupert, no Reform UK. Nigel is Reform UK. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to give their head a wobble. Rupert cannot and would not win the general election. Sarah Ramprell said,

Yes, he is. And so are we. I did a piece on this, which you can see. I posted yesterday morning. It's all about the hate list for 2025. Really recommend you go and watch that because Dan Wooten Outspoken has also made that list. They are disgusting, Sarah. And it's a very, very good point from you.

And Michael Douglas, quite a good note to end on. He simply said, Rupert 4pm. Okay, time for Greatest Britain. Union Jackass. The nominees are Bob Geldof, nominated by David Elan because he's one of the biggest lying crooked talented POSs in England. This is the comments he made on the Project TV about Trump and Musk. He said they are quite literally taking the bandages off the gang-raped women. Nominee two, Zia Youssef, nominated by Eski1P4NowW. Sorry, that's such a difficult name.

I'm sorry if I've got that wrong. That's their ex-account name. The reason, though, is a good one. Tried to pull the wool over people's eyes. We know he's a world-defuner at Forum Plant who's ruined reform. And nominee three, Lady Claire is, oh, I'm sorry, nominated by Lady Claire. The nominee is Yvette Cooper, the Home Secretary, for being beholden to Muslims and denying Ms. Amos her right to an inquiry regarding her father's brutal murder in reference to

David Amos, of course. Wow, these results are really interesting. Five, sorry, 8% of you went for Bob Geldof in third place. 24% of you went for Yvette Cooper, the Home Secretary, for refusing the AMS inquiry. But bloody hell, I wouldn't have seen this one coming a week ago. 67% of you have made Zia Youssef the Chairman of Reform UK, today's Union jack jackass as a result of the reform civil war. Greatest Britain is really important though. Katie Amess, nominated by Karen Hankey of the Dan Wooten Outspoken Club because she is fighting for the truth for her late father. This woman is inspirational. Her press conference today was heartbreaking. Her dad would be so, so proud of her, David Amess, for what she's doing. Oh, just got another super chat

in from Sicklid. Reforms grabbed them by the kitty moment. I'm glad you said kitty, Sicklid. Goodness gracious me. It's going to be interesting if it is. I've also got to just thank you all because over the weekend, can you believe it? We hit 300,000 subscribers here on YouTube. The news was announced by Michael Cass, who helps run the Dan Wooten Outspoken Club on X. He posted massive congratulations to Dan Wootton on surpassing 300,000 YouTube subscribers. Dan also recently clocked up over 100 million total views of his channel, way more than the fake news agents. Independence is king. And even though it's weird me sharing this post about myself, I did have to read out the

amazing post on X from Father Calvin Robinson, who has been here from day one, as you know, and I so appreciated his words. He said, it has been amazing watching Dan Wotton fly once the shackles were removed. It was not a pleasant experience for him being fired from the station he helped build, but it was the best thing that ever happened to him. Independent media is the only free press. MSM equals controlled. And thank you so much to Father Calvin Robinson. Thank you to Angela Levin. Thank you for Lady Colin Campbell, all of our regulars who have been with us from day one. And thank you to you. All I ask is that you subscribe. It's totally free to do so. And spread the word. You just

have to click subscribe, hit the notification bell. It really totally free to do so and spread the word. You just have to click subscribe, hit the notification bell. It really, really means a lot to me. Okay, coming up, we've still got the uncancelled after show to come. However, we do move to Substack for that www.outspoken.live. I would ask you to sign up there too. It's completely free. Dan, you just need to enter your address and then hit subscribe. And we're teaming up with the Royal News Network for all of the royal news and gossip from the weekend, including Thomas Markle's brutal review of his daughter's Netflix disaster with Love Megan. So at this stage, we come off YouTube, we come off Rumble. We've also been broadcasting on X today because of the Rupert Lowe interview. We don't usually do that live, but it's been

brilliant to have you. If you are watching on X and you want to get this on a daily basis, just head on over to YouTube, type in Dan Wooten Outspoken or Outspoken and make sure you subscribe. Big news though, we have another major exclusive interview tomorrow at 5pm UK time. I think it's 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific because of the time change, by the way. I Hope I've got that right. Darren Grimes, his first interview since leaving GB News and joining Reform UK. Cannot wait for that. Hit subscribe right now on YouTube and Rumble so that you're notified of it the moment that it happens. Most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you,

but I hope to see you on the after show on Substack in just one moment.