Dan Wootton Outspoken - ZIA YUSUF WAS AMBUSHED BY REFORM UK OVER BURKA BAN SO NIGEL FARAGE COULD FORCE HIM OUT

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Take back your personal data with Incogni! Use code OUTSPOKEN at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/outspoken BREAKING TODAY: Reform UK is in crisis as the war over Zia Yusuf’s departure plunges Nigel Farage’s party into an increasingly bitter civil war. Meanwhile, the spinning has begun, with all of those folks who told you Yusuf was the second coming now insisting he’s a total nobody and Nigel Farage, very disappointingly, blaming the made up alt-right and even more made up Indian bots for the issue. In his Digest, Dan will cut through the spin and reveal what is REALLY going on. Then top analysis you won’t get from the MSM with Connor Tomlinson, host of Tomlinson Talks and contributor to Courage Media. PLUS: Jacinda Ardern lies to Oprah Winfrey in the latest sickening round of promotion for her autobiography. Dan will explain why this woman is the opposite of kind and is actually an evil political force. AND: Tommy Robinson and LBC’s Iain Dale go to war. We'll show you the incredibly heated exchange. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Meghan Markle has briefed against her own husband Prince Harry to her favourite magazine People in the latest shocking PR stunt from the fake Duchess. We’ll analyse it all with our Royal Mastermind Angela Levin. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Time to drive away from the grind and unwind in your new 2025 Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross. No phones, no signal, no meetings. Just the smell of adventure. Lease the Eclipse Cross today for the equivalent of $89 weekly at 3.99% for 36 months. Plus get a no charge, two year maintenance package. Visit your local Mitsubishi dealer today or see mitsubishimotors.ca for details. Conditions apply. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered

to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wood and this is Outspoken Live episode number 243. And thank you to all of those incredible patriots who stayed up late to see me speak at the Together declaration summer event in London last night. It was hosted by Tonya Buxton and team together Alan Miller and Montgomery Toms. People had traveled., actually some people

had travelled from all around the world actually, there was someone there from Poland, it was honestly an amazing event and a good tonic, a very good tonic. Now breaking today, Reform UK in crisis as the war over Zia Youssef's departure plunges Nigel Farage's party into an increasingly bitter civil war. Meanwhile, the spinning has begun. With all of those folks who told you Youssef was the second coming, now insisting he's a total nobody. It's not such a huge deal also, it's because Zia Youssef was relatively new to, as I said, to politics.

He said he wasn't aware that she was going to ask that question. That was just a communications slip up, you know, it happens, everybody's very busy. There's a by-election in Scotland today. I would be surprised if a large percentage of people who in the local elections voted reform could actually name anyone in the party other than Nigel Farage. They couldn't name Rupert Lowe, they couldn't name Yusuf, probably not Sarah Poachin. And Nigel Farage very disappointingly decided to blame the made-up alt-right and even more made-up Indian bot army. It's full of vile trolls, particularly the alt-right types who have been just outright horrific towards Zia right from the very start. And I think he's just said the persistent campaign

The persistent campaign against him on X, and much of it coming from Indian bots, has perhaps made some reform members question him, question his motives. All of that's completely unfair. In my digest next, I will cut through the spin and reveal what is really going on, then top analysis you certainly won't get from the MSM with Conor Tomlinson, host of Tomlinson Talks and contributor to Courage Media. Also coming up on the show today, Richard Tice is monstered by Steven Edgington in an astonishing interview on GB News, exposing Reform UK's true weaknesses. Tommy Robinson and LBC's Ian Dale go to war, I'll show you the incredibly heated exchange. And Jacinda Ardern lies to Oprah Winfrey in the latest sickening round of promotion for her autobiography. I'll explain why this woman is actually the opposite of kind. She's an evil political force. And I do not use that word lightly. Then in the uncancelled after show on Substack, Meghan Markle has briefed against her own

husband Prince Harry to her favourite magazine People in the latest shocking PR stunt from the fake duchess. We'll analyse it all with our royal mastermind Angela Levin. And of course, because it is a Friday, we are putting our Union Jackass winners from across the week, head to head in a mega poll to find out the worst Britain in the world this week. Okay. Monday's Union Jackass is sort of an honorary. She's not a Brit, thank God, but it's Greta Thunberg. She's caused enough issues here.

On Tuesday, we've got Judge John McAver, he's the guy behind the Quran burning conviction, no picture of him anywhere by the way. Wednesday, Lord Herrma, our Attorney General, and Thursday, Zia Youssef, the ex Reform UK chairman, goodness me it feels good saying that. So there are your four Union Jackass winners from the week. We're putting them head to head right now. Just head to the post section on YouTube to vote. And I will reveal the winner and bring some of your best comments at the end of the show.

But now let's go. Now let's go! So the Reform UK Civil War, after Zia Yousaf was effectively axed as chairman in a beautifully executed burqa ban ambush by its new MP Sarah Pochian, is also proof that you can no longer trust the mainstream media, including the newly centrist propaganda outfit GB News. Because I knew, I knew weeks ago that Nigel Farage had turned on Youssef after that botched decision to report Rupert Lowe to the police for hurty words, a catastrophic example of woke lawfare against one of their own. And I reported it to you on April 19th. Since Yusuf decided to launch his unhinged bile at me for reporting the facts, I've

discovered things are actually far worse at Reform HQ than even I had previously realised. Yusuf's fury appears to be that Nigel Farage is now openly saying it's a matter of when not if he departs the job after a succession of high-profile departures. Yet despite that, despite my report in the MSM, including the right, remained united in their lie that Faraj and Yousuf were together. Despite the fact, there was a full on mutiny behind the scenes at Reform HQ which only I reported on. Indeed, do you remember this? Yousuf called me a liar and senior party figures tried to brand me an enemy even though I voted for Reform and view myself as a critical friend of what is quite clearly an insurgent political force. So why did they do that?

Well, it's because they are there to spin an establishment narrative, to not reveal the truth. So here is the truth. Farage realised that promoting this political novice to the top job in his party where he was infuriating and deriding its loyal base on a daily basis based simply on identity politics – let me be blunt with you, the fact that he was a rich Muslim was a shocking error. Now that Youssef has quit in acrimony, and it actually happened while we were on air yesterday during a very dramatic episode, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, within minutes actually,

what I reported to you in April and was widely denied at the time is now being accepted as fact in the MSM. Now I do credit Faraj for realising Yusuf just had to go, he made it happen with Pochon's Berkha ambush and trust me that was all plotted, it was all planned. Yusuf was said to be furious because reforms seemingly supposing a Ber-Kaban could scupper his plan to bring thousands of Muslims into the party. And by the way, if you're in any doubt that sectarianism is growing in British politics, just look at Scottish Labour leader Anas Sawaz's response to Nigel Farage after beating reform in last night's Hamilton by-election.

after beating reform in last night's Hamilton by-election. On X in particular, it's full of vile trolls, particularly the alt-right types, who have been just outright horrific towards Zia, right from the very start. Oh sorry, that is the wrong clip. Let me just try and get you. Soiree, this was the new clip that we put in, Jesse. It just came in this afternoon. But we'll come back to it later. But I'm still not happy with the approach Nigel is taking publicly to the growing war within Reform UK given as you saw there he blamed the use of Fallout on outright trolls. Because you're talking about your supporters

there. On X in particular. You're talking about your supporters there Nigel, who disagreed with Yusuf's treatment of Lo, it was nothing to do with his race for god's sake. But he's also blaming so-called Indian bots, rather than refusing to accept there is genuine support behind Lowe's mass deportation messaging. The online reaction from Reform UK supporters and voters has to be said quite a lot of happiness in the air that Mr Yusuf has gone. Why do you think that is? What was it about the the voter base of Reform UK that may have...

I think that the persistent campaign against him on X, and much of it coming from Indian bots, has perhaps made some Reform members question him, question his motives, all of that's completely unfair. And when given an opportunity to deliver a bit of an olive branch to Rupert and Ben Habib, the former reform UK deputy leader, both of these guys are good men by the way, beloved by the reform base, they've both been treated abysmally. Did Nigel take it like hell? And could there be a way back for them now? For example, could Rupert Lowe find a way back into Reform UK? I'd rather eat razor blades after the way he's behaved and the things he said about us.

No. Ben Habib? Good Lord, no. You can't work with people who, when they have the slightest disagreement with you on anything, go public the whole time. You can't operate in politics with people like that. If you're going to have disagreements, sit down over a cup of tea in a room and talk about it. Those guys chose to do it all publicly. That response was just so disappointing given Nigel himself admitted that Zia had been difficult, which is a massive understatement based on all

that I've learned about his behavior. Just a quick final question about the Rupert Lowe incident. Could there be a way back for them now, for example, could Rupert Lowe incident. Could there be a way back for them now, for example, could Rupert Lowe find a way back into Reform UK? I'd rather eat razor blades after the way he's behaved and the things he said about us. No. Ben Habib? Good Lord, no. No, you can't work with people who, when they have the slightest disagreement with you on

anything, go public the whole time. You can't operate in politics with people like that. If you're going to have disagreements, sit down over a cup of tea in a room and talk about it. Those guys chose to do it all publicly. And he even came close to agreeing that Rupert should never have been reported to the police. Just a quick final question about the Rupert Lowe incident. Do you think that incident was handled well, particularly between reporting it to the police? Was that the right thing to do?

Well, you know what, when you're a chairman, it's a bit like being a chief executive, you make lots of decisions. Most of his decisions were right. That one, well, maybe not. You're saying perhaps it was a mistake to involve the police? I think, you know what, you make decisions all the time. Some you get right, maybe some you get wrong. So Farage's overall arrogance in terms of dealing with Rupert Lowe means that any chance

of a unifying moment was immediately blown. With Rupert posting on X, Faraj says he would rather eat razor blades than allow me back into reform. Having sat with him as an MP for 8 months, I've already got plenty of them in my back. Farage and his ego are together incapable of building a team. He must never be Prime Minister. Nigel also failed to embrace Katie Hopkins, who helped precipitate yesterday's departure by Youssef, who had reached out after his departure, writing, Dear Nigel Farage and Reform, thank you. Truly thank you. Looking forward to seeing you and your team in number 10. Anything I can do to help, I'm in.

But what did happen is that the Reform propaganda machine soon wound up. That self-satisfied piece of shit Tom Hardwood, who is meant to be a journalist, literally told us the answer is simply to be a journalist, literally told us the answer is simply to trust his co-presenter Farage. I just think that three letters matter a lot in politics today. D-U-F. Don't underestimate Farage. I think, I would be surprised if a large percentage of people who in the local elections voted reform could actually name anyone in the party other than Nigel Farage. They couldn't name Rupert Lowe, they couldn't name Yusuf,

probably not Sarah Poechin or maybe Lee Anderson might be better known but not actually as high a recognition as you think. You're right, the Rupert Lowe debacle didn't really make a mark, didn't make a dent really on the polling, did it? I just want to pull my hair out. Seriously, I want to pull my hair out. Like, Farage is great in so many ways. Of course he is, none of us are denying that. But are you seriously, as a journalist, suggesting that we just trust one politician blindly, and that it doesn't matter who else is in his movement when there's a bloody cabinet to fill. I mean it's ludicrous, it's embarrassing, it is propaganda. Then Isabel Oakeshott, who remember I spent the past year describing Youssef as the second coming,

is now simply trying to say that his role was operational and we're all just meant to believe that his departure is meaningless. I mean and the reason that it's not such a huge deal also is because Zia Youssef was relatively new to, as I said, to politics and a lot of reform supporters were not backing reform because of Zia Youssef. You know, that's no disrespect to him, but he had an operational role. He was very, very good on the media and that was highly valued. But his role in the party was operational. Nigel was a leader, Richard Tyson is a deputy leader, there are five MPs. Zia Youssef had a role behind the

scenes really at HQ. On the one hand, on the other hand, yes, he was doing media, but he wasn't the party leader. Richard Tice, her boyfriend, by the way, at least Isabel in this interview on talk did finally admit that there had been drama for months ahead of yesterday's blow up. But obviously what's ironic about that is that was something that when I was reporting it at the time, her boyfriend Richard Tice was attacking me for while denying. It's interesting actually looking at polling on the issue of whether we in the UK should ban the burqa. There's majority of people in the UK actually in favour of that, but be that as it may, I think that Zia openly said he wasn't aware

that she was going to ask that question. That was just a communication slip up, you know, it happens, everybody's very busy, there's a by-election in Scotland today, you know, this sort of stuff happens. So I am sure that he didn't resign because of the burka question. There's been stuff going on in the background for quite some time now and my take on it is that it's really, really difficult and in fact virtually unheard of to go from zero political experience as Zia Youssef had when he became chairman of reform into such a position in the party that is causing a political earthquake. And is all of this Machiavellian drama an issue for reform? Remember Isabella Oakeshott

told us that reporting Rupert Lowe to the police wasn't an issue for reform. So this isn't either. Everything is fine. Not in the slightest. And I know that reforms critics and all those who are terrified by the rise of reform will be desperate to say, oh, this is a catastrophe, this is a disaster. What's really interesting now is the party is so much bigger than one or two or three personalities. You know, this is a whole different beast to what it was, you know, even six months ago. So yes, it's disappointing, nobody would want it to have played out in this way with Zia Youssef, but he was just the chairman in the same way that, you know, Richard Dice

is just a deputy leader and Nigel is just the leader. There is a whole party here. It is a mass movement now, over 230,000 members and more importantly, millions of people up and down the country that support reform. So it's bigger than individual personalities. Now I know that's rough for Labour and the Conservatives to accept but in a sense reform is like them now. You know it certainly can survive a few issues with moving positions of personnel. Sorry. I'm playing you that because this is why you've got to trust the independent media. This is why you have to trust journalists that don't have skin in the game, that don't have a boyfriend that's part of the party, that don't want to run as an MP. And it matters.

It matters because if reform is our great hope, then we've got to keep them honest. And what this is just proving is that you have been lied to by Reform UK for the past six weeks and that Reform UK will go after people even if they are telling the truth. Now by contrast there are commentators who I've trusted during all of this so I think their analysis today is worth listening to. Former Brexit party leader Catherine Blacklock posted a couple of weeks ago there was a rumour that many of the Reform Office staff had walked out because of Zia Youssef, who reportedly was a bully, impossible to work with and had certain way with women that wasn't appreciated. Charlie Sansom suggested, Zia Youssef resigns as Reform UK chairman after building the party up, whilst diluting the message and alienating the best voices in Ben Habib, Rupert Lowe and Howard Cox. If Nigel wants to capitalise in a huge way, it's time to rebuild bridges and dedicate Reform to the

right. Calvin Mackenzie said Zia Youssef is no loss. making untrue allegations against Rupert Lowe as the last draw, pleased to see him go, reform will be stronger, and the great Kate Hoey added, I agree with this prediction. And Harrison Pitt asked, what are the odds that Mr Youssef files a discrimination lawsuit against the party within the next year or so. Well, that's not an absurd suggestion, because Andrew Pearce in the mail today has already put it out there that Youssef

is plotting revenge despite Farage's carefully constructed kind words towards him. He wrote on Wednesday evening this week, an explosive cry rang out in the Reform HQ in London. How much longer do we have to put up with Zia? demanded a senior figure in Nigel Farage's upstart party. And though Youssef's ill-judged comment may have been the catalyst, I can reveal that his fate was sealed in March by his equally inadvisable decision to make an official complaint to the police alleging threatening behaviour by Rupert Lowe.

Last night I am told Yusuf felt angry and humiliated and mark my words, this will not be the last we hear from him. The fallout from the brutal treatment of Lowe continues and these events speak of deep trouble at the heart of Britain's fastest growing political movement. I also think Stephen Wolfe, another casualty of Nigel Farage from his UKIP era, is worth listening to on this. Welcome to Wolfe's One Minute, another one dumb da dum dumb latest headlines and I'm sure many of us like myself are delighted to hear the news that Zia Youssef chairman useless chairman of Reform UK has resigned because he was dumb da dum dum yes he

was very dumb in calling Sarah poaching the Reform Party's newest MP, for criticizing her and calling her dumb for raising the important issue at Prime Minister's question time that we should ban the burka. After all, why not raise it at question time when Kirstama, so enamoured and rejoining the European Union and our membership there, should be questioned on whether we ban the burka which all those other European nations do as well. Well not all of them but a majority of the sensible ones already have done. However rather than pointing out how well she's done and what a clever question it was or how you

put the Prime Minister on the spot, Zia Youssef called her dumb the dumb dumb and as a consequence of that, quite rightly, he's gone. He should have gone after Rupert Lowe and the way that he called the police and told them that Rupert, a man, was attacking him because actually he was dumb, da dum dum, and that's what's going to be the message about Zia Youssef in hip charge He is dumb and all of those people in reform who have been backing him for so long saying he is a man of great Transformation a wonderful individual are also dumb da dum dum And now another one of those commentators I trust, Connor Tomlinson.

Connor, I've been looking forward to talking to you about that. So there is the setup. What's your take? Well, to borrow a phrase from Nigel Farage, when I heard the news yesterday, I started singing the sun has got his hat on hip, hip, hip. Hooray. It was not a moment too soon to get rid of Zia Youssef considering his unconscionable conduct towards a bit passive aggressive but considering he called the police on Rupert Lowe for a completely spurious charge and had the man's house raided and all of his guns taken and would rather see him rot in a cell on, again, bogus charge than be able to criticise first Nigel Farage and his leadership style and see a use of himself quietly, then just, you know,

speak his mind in a mail interview. No, no, rather than be open and receptive to critical friends like me, you and his own MPs, Dan, he would rather call the police on them, disparage them, exile them, and then, as Stephen Wolfe just put, call Sarah Poachin dumb. You are, I think, correct in the idea that this Berk question was not a simple communication error. No! I have heard that considering Z. Youssef maintained, or tried to, maintain an iron grip on messaging, something that Goyen Tawla said earlier on GB News, so you know, it's out there in the ether, that they did not tell him about this for a deliberate reason. And they wanted to see the reaction and to see whether or not it would drive

a predictable wedge between him and the base, because Ziyousef is not a popular figure. He was brought in at the ground floor, gave one speech at Birmingham, clapped like he was the second coming of Nelson Mandela, and then instantly elevated to the top job despite lots of people waiting in the wings who were much more loyal to the cause for many years being passed over. And I can tell you what, Dan, it's not just Indian bots or the alt-right, as Nigel said in that, let's say, hostage video, really. There's a reason for that, but I'll mention it in a moment. I'm going to be really, really nice in the hope that Zia Youssef doesn't call me Islamophobic in the future.

Well, not just that. It's not just Islamophobic. Zia Youssef has the potential to basically fart on the lift on the way out as the doors close because remember, he's still co-director of the company. And so that means that he's still got his shares. Yep. And he knows all of the company. And so that means that he's still got his shares. Yep. And he knows all of the internal data. And as Harrison alluded to, it may not be likely, but he could still claim discrimination laws by some sort of corporate law and hoist the company by its own petard

and scupper the chance, the one chance that we seem to have of a patriotic populist movement coming in from outside of the uni partyarty. I do find it fascinating though the idea that it's just the alt-right who would criticize Zia Youssef who've been misled by Indian bots. The alt-right, by the way, in American terms means white nationalists. So unless Nigel Farage thinks that most of his supporters, his deputy leader and Rupert Lowe are white nationalists, I would have to question why they're in the party in the first place. The idea that it was just them, no, because as you will know, Dan, because you've probably spoken to similar people, there are old guard members of the Brexit

party days and UKIP and that who have had some, let's say, colourful language, some French insults for Zia Youssef anytime his name has come up, and a sincere level of frustration that basically he's been deterring donors and deterring defectors by his petulant conduct. Oh yes, indeed. But I'm sorry, Connor, and this is something that is so disappointing for Nigel Farage to buy into. This idea that criticising Zia Youssef in some way makes you racist is the most backward thing that a populist movement and anti-woke movement should be fighting against because let me tell you all of my criticisms of Zia Youssef

came after he'd shot Rupert Lowe to the police. Now, yes, there were questions to ask about his views on Islam, about the Muslim, so that he was bringing into the party, right? But that is a separate conversation. My personal criticism of his conduct was all down to his treatment of Rupert Lowe and to suggest for a single second that that was at all based on racism is sick and twisted and it's not something that Farage should be doing given he's faced the same thing his entire career. Yeah, he's just building a straw man to burn and

I don't think that's fair. Number one, it's a strategic disadvantage to him to try and appease the Westminster media bubble that would rather see reform capsize than succeed. I mean, the BBC today, for example, said that Zia Yousaf's departure spells doom for reform because they needed a Muslim chairman to get rid of accusations that the BBC thinks are credible that the party's racist. Bear in mind, the BBC does all it can to prop up Hamas these days, so excuse me if I don't take a walk away. Yes, oh my god, yes, you're so right. And by the way, I also saw Robert Peston talking about him on Wokai TV and Robert Peston said, yeah, I was interested in this guy. I went

for lunch with this guy because he wasn't a normal reform person because he was Muslim, because he wasn't white. So it's like you are playing this dangerous game of constantly trying to appeal to what the mainstream media wants reform to become. Quite, and if Robert Peston has endorsed you, well perhaps you should rethink your entire personality. But as far as Zia Youssef's criticism, yeah, reporting Rupert Lowe to the police, absolutely immoral. Refusing to ever speak to Ben H Habib while he was still deputy leader. Sheer incompetence. But also there's many other things as well, you know, deterring investment, his treatment of Rupert Lowe, deterring defectors, treating branch chairs unceremoniously, having a dictatorial way of controlling the party's messaging, which he tore himself in half like Rumpelstiltskin

when the when the burka question slipped him by, which shows his control freak nature over that. And then frankly, and again, I've met Gwain many times. He's a nice chap. We disagree on some politics. I think he's a bit too soft for me. But the way that he sat Gwain Tawla was downright rude and disrespectful, especially considering he's a relative newcomer. And Gwain has been nothing but charitable and an ardent defender of the party off his own back on the media rounds in recent months. So to treat him like that was just just unnecessary. It rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way and I think that reform now has an opportunity, though I think Farad sort of scuppered it in that first interview immediately after,

but it has an opportunity to try and make amends with people and reform its image and try to live up to the potential that a lot of its supporters, me and you included Dan, wanted to. The growing problem with Reform UK is that they are finding it impossible now to deal with the most important issues of our time. mass deportation and demographic change. And nothing has spelled that out in the most uncomfortable manner than Stephen Edgington, the brilliant GB News journalist and he really is the best thing that broadcaster has now, no wonder they never put him on television, brutal deconstruction of Richard Tice, Reform UK's deputy leader. This interview I think smashes, and don't get me wrong, I am not happy about this for a single second, but it smashes the idea that

Reform UK are truly preparing to save the United Kingdom, that they are truly preparing for the sort of Trump-style mass deportations that we need to reclaim our country. So I think it's very important we analyse this interview because it has been overshadowed somewhat because of all of the drama surrounding the departure of Zia Youssef. I'm going to do that with Conor Tomlinson, but this really is a shocking watch. Let's start with the moment where Stephen Edgington asks Richard Tice whether all illegals should be deported and Richard Tice decides to attack him as juvenile.

Should every single illegal immigrant in Britain be deported? Would reform do that if you're in government? Our view is that you can't be here illegally. So you know, you've got to go through a removal process. But don't be juvenile and assume you can do that overnight or in the space of much. You can't. And you've got to be grown up about this. Okay. People cannot stay here illegally. How long it would take to find all the people who are illegally, I don't know. I mean, we just as a nation, incredibly, we don't know how many people are here illegally. Is it a hundred thousand? Is it half a million? Is it a million? Or

is it more? We don't know. But we should know. Why is it juvenile to ask whether you want to deport all illegal migrants? I've just said we should remove people who are here illegally. But there's an underlying tone in your question, which is you must do it tomorrow. No, no, no. There is, Steve Austin. There is. That is exactly. There is an underlying tone in the way you're asking this question.

You've got to deport people immediately. No. no. Well, that's how it comes over. Okay. The reason I'm asking the question is because I asked Nigel Farage last year the same question and he said, no, it's not reforms ambition to deport every single illegal immigrant in Britain. He said it would be impossible and politically impossible. And then I asked again, which is exactly why I've said people can't expect to remain here. If you're here illegally, you can't expect to remain here. If you're here illegally, you can't expect to remain here. But what we don't know, we don't know how many people are here illegally. And we don't know, therefore, how long it might take to identify them and

remove them. Ultimately, people can't stay here illegally and expect that that can go on forever. I'm sorry, we need ambition. Why the hell should we accept the fact that there are illegals who are going to stay here for another day? We need a party that is going to have that ambition. And Richard Tice just got testier as Stephen pushed what Farage had told him in their previous interview together. But in essence, that is what Nigel Farage was saying when I asked, do you support the mass deportations of all illegal migrants? And he said no. That means that some of them won't

be deported. You're obsessed with this. And frankly, I do think that we need to have a sensible way of discussing it. You're obsessed with it. It's not about me, Richard. It is actually. It's about, I've asked Nigel this last year, what is the thing? Right. Right? Okay. The reality is... Because I think there's clarity. That's the reason I'm asking.

You've got complete clarity, right? Which is you can't do everything. I think you're coming at this from a point of view, you've got to deport everybody next week. You can't do that. Be grown up about it. We don't know who they are. We don't know where they are. But the principle is people can't remain here illegally forever. Right, and the principle is important and that is why I asked Nigel Farage again, is it your ambition to deport all these people? And he said no. And that's a principle, we will not deport all illegal migrants. And as a government you have to make a decision, are we going to try and deport everyone who's here illegally or will we give some of them

amnesty? There's no sort of middle ground. There's, see, we're not in government, but if we are in government, then our position will be people cannot expect to be here illegally and stay here illegally forever. But I repeat the point. It will not be easy finding everybody. And I'm quite sure that's a reasonable position that anybody would respect. And I don't know how long that time, how long that would take. Jason Vale Conor Donaldson, there are even more extraordinary moments in this interview that we will come to in just one moment. But I had to bring you in here because how on earth can you watch that and feel that

reform has any ambition whatsoever to deport every illegal in this country. It is the opposite of the rhetoric that Americans got from Trump which got Trump back into the White House. Will Barron Yeah, there's a number of points on this. I mean, first of all, the Conservative Party have already committed to it in principle. It's just that nobody trusts them to carry it out. So it shouldn't be a problem to commit to. It's already well within the Overton window. 99% of existing reform supporters want mass deportations of every single legal immigrant in the country, and so should everyone because it's just called enforcing the law. When I said this about two weeks after Nigel said no at Reform's conference last September, it got a round of applause from the kind of people that would pay to come up to, well, the dreadful eyesore that is Birmingham to go and see everyone

speak. So it's not like they're Indian bots or haters or trying to sabotage reform. No, it's your own voters that expect this. So you can say, yes, in principle we want to do this. It's going to be difficult identifying just how many people are in the country. I will say that, not to insult Richard, but there are already existing estimates. Him posing the rhetorical question of the are there a thousand, five hundred thousand, a million? It's like no, according to Pew Research in 2017, there are at least 1.2 million people in the country overstaying their visas. Then there's David Wood, who was a former Director General of Immigration Enforcement at the Home Office.

He says he thinks that number goes up by 150,000 every single year, plus we've got 160,000 to 70,000 people that have been detected crossing in small boats since 2018, and a few other thousand on the back of a lorry. So you can easily round that up to at least 2 million. Well, of course, it's at least 2 million, but you're completely right. Even if you take a conservative estimate, there's 1.2 million. Okay, so that is a starting point. And it is very clear there is no way Tice is going to say which Rupert Lowe has said is that yes, those 1.2 million people have to go, we've got to line up the flights. And what is so fascinating, Connor Thomas is that it was quite the opposite, like Richard actually

in this interview, seem to want to deny the reality of the figures and the research that has been presented. I mean, Matt Goodwin's piece of research this week, that we're going to become a minority white nation within four decades has been everywhere, right? Like no one in the right wing ecosphere would not have heard about this report. Yet that is exactly what Richard Tice tried to convince Stephen Adjinton of. Watch. You recently published some research on demographics in Britain and projections, and he predicts that by 2063, Britain will be minority white British. Is that a concern of yours at all? Yeah, I don't think that's a, I haven't seen those predictions in 2063. It's a long way

off. It's a few decades. It's a few decades. Well, it's, I'm trying to do the maths quickly in my head, but it's, in most people, I'll be long gone, but all of that. I think that, you know, the UK is a, we are a Christian nation. We should stand up and be proud of that. And, you know, let's see what happens. But at the end of the day, what we should be focusing on is getting our own people back into work, training up our own people, having, in a sense, Nigel's talked quite recently about families, we need more British born people, so that we need to be less reliant

on immigration. And that's the issue. And on we go. It will be a huge moment though in British history for the first time ever in this nation's more than a thousand years of proud history. The country will be minority white British and men and so it was just that you're obsessed with this stuff. Okay. Um, so it's not many other people, which it's not just me to be fair. The way you ask the questions, right? Matt Goodwin's made a forecast. He may or may not be right. I don't know what his computer model is. I've not seen it. But the sensible discussion to have is what sort of population do we want to have? Can we make that population more prosperous? Can we have

a high quality, highly skilled immigration policy? And yeah, it's like one of these things. It's a bit like what we started on in terms of, do you want to ban the burka? Let's have a discussion about it. Now, Conor Thomson, this is the answer that has angered people most and is currently going viral because of that one sentence, I'll be long gone. As if, oh or who cares? Who cares what state we're going to leave the country in? Could you believe this? I know, the apathy just sort of drips. The correct response to hearing that your culture is going to be erased because the homeowners of our collective home, our country, are going

to be a minority compared to the houseguest is not oh well I'll be dead by the time it happens it is okay this is a national crisis and we need to fix this and the idea that integration is working sorry one it's not like just look at the statistics on British-born Muslims and their attitude towards Jews and also the wider host majority population put out by the Henry Jackson Society it's actually worse among second generation immigrants Richard so it's not working in that capacity but But even if integration were working, you would need to be around the host population in order to integrate. If the host population are the minority, what are they integrating into? What that entire exchange

was was twofold. Number one, the reason Richard was looking down and his answer was largely incoherent except for the on-we-go attitude into our demographic obsolescence was because he was trying to walk a thin tightrope of giving the party and politically correct line on this, because he's been told to moderate and not look racist, rather than give whatever his actual response was, which we don't know. And that insincerity bled off of him and is not good for an insurgent populist party that's meant to be the alternative to the uniparty that has agreed on mass demographic change for the last few decades. And the other thing was the fact that he kept repeating, and he did this in a Times radio interview this morning, kept repeating the

idea that Stephen was childish or juvenile or that he is the adult in the room or that the grown-up thing to do is have a discussion about these things, miring the thing in internal debate and never actually making a decision. Whichever media coach he spent money on to tell him to get that line, get your money back because they're worse than the one that Keir Starmer used. Then Steven Edgington, and I'm laughing because why Steven Edgington is so brilliant, right, is there was no backing down. What politicians try and do in an interview like this is set the tone and hammer the interviewer so much that eventually they back down and they don't ask the controversial questions. Well, that's why these people who aren't prepared to actually be honest about how they feel should probably stop sitting down with Stephen Edgington, although I love it because it's giving us such an insight. So Stephen then asks about Enoch Powell and very quickly is able to completely destroy Tice by pointing out his hypocrisy watch.

He was right in his predictions whether you have any thoughts on that. I mean, he was a fascinating figure. Yeah, he was a very significant figure at the time. Some people thought then that he might be a significant leader of the Conservative Party. And certainly, what it says, what it shows is language is important. Let's try and have these debates, which can be difficult in a sensitive, rational, calm way. And sometimes, you know, when we're all doing sort of media stuff, you might slightly overdo it. And I think that the sort of the the media class can get obsessed with the odd word here and there. Actually, I think the more important

thing is, let's get to the right answers, have a sensible debate about what can often be difficult stuff in a rational way. And the worst thing of all is what has happened historically until frankly, Nigel came along, which is to talk about difficult stuff. Sorry, has happened historically is to smear and label people and cancel people to the point of view where you're not allowed to talk about it. And an ordinary folk and I can't talk about that, even though quite like to in a sensible way as you might do down the pub. But to be fair in this interview, you've kind of said that to me that I can't talk about

certain things or I've been aggressive and asked about, you know, demographic change. We can talk about it, but there's a sensible way of discussing it as opposed to, right, you've got to deport everybody tomorrow. That's ridiculous. And I think that's about getting the approach and the tone correct so that we can talk about this. Because otherwise what will happen is people watching this will say, oh, Dice is a dreadful individual, wants to deport everybody tomorrow. No, it's impossible. It's impossible. So then talk about it in a way that you think, you know, there's no point making promises that are irrational and unhelpful, can't be delivered. Try and actually talk about it in a sensible way saying people can't expect to come here

illegally and stay here forever. What you do need though is you need a competent, you need a competent, whatever you want to call it, Home Office Immigration Department that knows who's coming in, who's going out, who's here legally, who's here illegally. Oh my goodness, I was punching the air at that moment, right, because it's like, you've got Tye saying something actually quite sensible for the first time in the interview, that it was wrong that Enoch Powell was effectively cancelled even though he didn't quite say it because of his language, but then he immediately tries to moderate Stephen Edgington's

language which he says is not sensible! ALICE Yeah, in the early days of UKIP as well I believe that Nigel Farage sought the blessing of Enoch Powell. He was eulogised at his own funeral by Blair and Thatcher, so he wasn't exactly the boogeyman that the modern BBC would have you to believe in. If anything, he underestimated the problem. But by the way, the reason that annoyed me, and again, okay, I'm happy to be calm and rational as I usually am when talking about immigration policy, because I would like to think I actually know the statistics and the kind of legal mechanisms and levers you can pull

to do the job that Richard says he wants to do. But the problem that I have with this entire interview is that Richard is dictating the terms by which Stephen will be satisfied with the answers to his questions. He is saying, I'm being clear. He is saying, I'm the adult in the room. He is telling Stephen, don't ask me questions

in a way that makes me uncomfortable. And I'm gonna manage your questions to manage my emotions because I can't be being called racist by people that will always call me racist because they don't want to win an election. Instead, if you are confident in your positions and you're open and honest, you will ask the person who is asking the questions, did I answer your question? You will be open to the dialogue rather than constantly trying to manage someone else. And that's why, you know, if you or I, Dan, sat down with Stephen, who is a fantastic interviewer and a really good chap, by the way, and he were to ask us those questions, we would clearly say, yeah, we want to deport all illegal immigrants. Yes, it's going to be logistically difficult. Here's how I think we can do it. Do you think that's a good answer? Rather than going,

well, could you not cost me these points in the polls that hypothetically my terrible advisors have said, don't talk about immigration, have told me I'll lose if I touch the number one most important issue in the country? Because exactly what really showed what Richard was thinking was when he spoke about himself in the third person and said, people might think Tice is a horrible guy who wants everyone deported tomorrow. Now, I would actually argue that's really popular policy, by the way. I think the vast majority of Brits just look at the polling. I don't know what polling they are looking at, right? Because the vast majority of the polling shows that Brits in huge numbers support the mass deportations of

illegal immigrants. By the way, including Labour voters, who are the voters that Reform UK are seemingly so desperate to get with this massive move to the centre. But it does feel to me like Reform UK doesn't want to be held to account on anything they say. And so while I am a critical friend, as you can probably tell after today, Connor, I'm in a bit of an annoyed place because before the election, there are a number of promises made. You know, one of them was we're gonna do a private prosecution

on Jonathan Reynolds for lying about being a solicitor. It just hasn't happened. But the most important, I think, was the cast iron guarantee from Zia Youssef and Nigel Farage that there would be a mass deportation policy launched in the month of May. There were no ifs, buts or maybes and it was clearly an attempt and it worked to some degree to sort of soften the

criticism that Rupert Lowe was making of the party over mass deportations. When Stephen Edgington asks about that, Richard Tice just dismisses it, just dismisses it like, oh, who cares? We've got all the time in the world. Watch. Reform promised to publish some plans on how they would deport illegal migrants by May. It's now June. When can we expect that plan to be published? As soon as the answer. It, politics is all about timing. These people have had the May elections.

We've got a lot going on. And so, yeah, plans are being worked on and at the appropriate moment. And here's the thing, there's no one better at judging the right time to flesh something out and publish it than our leader, Nigel. But you promised it. Nigel promised it. We live in such a low trust society now, Connor. I think it's utterly essential that Reform UK stops making promises to give them an easy answer, effectively to win a media cycle, right? As if we're all stupid and we're just

going to forget that that promise was ever made. Quite. it shows Dan that the incentives that are set by the very online right, they're not the marginal constituency that they'd like to dismiss us as being driven by Indian bots. Actually they felt the need to raise up to Reform's public image which was perceived as being softening thanks to the vegan a barbecue effect that Zia Youssef was having especially after he kicked out Rupert Lowe. By the way from the earlier section barbecue effect that Zia Youssef was having, especially after he kicked out Rupert Low. By the way, from the earlier section, the idea that Zia Youssef brought untrammeled benefits to reform electorally or in terms of its policy,

he nearly costs her a poach in her seat with the 95 vote ballot spoiler that Catherine Blakelock ran on. But anyway, point being, yeah, they shouldn't make these policies if they can't meet them. The frustrating thing is though, they can meet them? Like, Rupert Lowe has swatted up on this stuff and his main bag is the economy, but he knows you have to leave the ECHR, he knows you have to leave or at least amend the 1952 Refugee Convention from the United Nations, he knows you need to abolish the Human

Rights Act, he knows you need to ensure that we withdraw all benefits and social housing from foreign nationals to extend indefinite leave to remain or remove it, to reform the 1948 British Nationality Act to ensure that Indians, Pakistanis and Nigerians can't just vote in our election, so our politicians can't just gerrymander the demographics to keep them in power forever. He knows all those things, he told me them in an interview that's going to be up tomorrow, funnily enough, which is twice all he's got to do is read the telegraph or read Sam Bidwell's Twitter or read me and he can just nick the talking points. Please.

We're begging you. It's free. Okay. So this is Tomlinson talks for the Rupert Lowe interview. Is that right, Connor? Yes, sir. Okay. Excellent.

Excellent. I'll be tuning into that. Look, I understand by the way that some people are going to be frustrated by the fact that I'm being critical, you could argue highly critical of reform today. I think they deserve it. So this is from the live chat, often anti-social, writes, reform may not be perfect, but we must get behind them. otherwise we are done for. And look, I get it. I understand that is how so many of you feel. But at the moment, surely you understand this far out from an election with this much trouble. It's critical that we deal with these issues now.

And if Reform UK are going to stay that soft, for example, on mass deportations, I would argue it's essential that there is an alternative. I just am not prepared four years before a general election to say, this is our only option. This is our only option. We've got to have more ambition for that. Now that's not to say, by the way, that I don't believe that Reform UK may well be the vehicle. Let's see who the next party chairman is. Let's see what changes they make, but we've got to keep the pressure on

because it is our pressure that is making a difference. Trust me on that. Although actually you don't have to trust me, just see what happens because that's another thing that's annoying me at the moment. Reform UK keeps saying, trust me on that. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Our job isn't just to trust you.

Our job is to keep you honest and make sure that we see the results. Breaking today, Tommy Robinson has hit back at Ian Dale in an astonishing in an astonishing online row after the wecked woke LBC presenter went public on the Andrew Gold podcast to attack in the most vicious terms. Britain's political prisoner freed of course from HMP Woodhill just last week. So I'm going to show you what Tommy Robinson had to say and how Ian Dale responded during this brutal feud in just one moment, then get reaction from Conor Tomlinson of Tomlinson Talks and Courage Media. But first, let's look at Ian Dale. I have to say, by the way, can we just say, can we just finally put pay to the fact Ian Dale is not on the right. He's not even a small c conservative. He is now just a paid up LBC lefty watch.

Who's the most famous person in your black book? Probably Tommy Robinson. Why? Probably Tommy Robinson. Why? Can I use a really bad swear word? If it's... Yeah, probably. Because he's a c***. He's been very nice to me. Has he?

Yeah. Well, lucky you. I remember the days when he used to phone into my show and pretend that he wasn't him, but it was so obvious that it was him, it was hilarious. I think he's a deeply evil man. Really evil? Yeah. Why?

Well, I mean, you're not going to agree with this because some of the things you said in the interview already. That doesn't matter. I think his main reason for existing is to stir up racial hatred, and he's very good at it. He's a very eloquent man. He's the ultimate populist Populist what a bad thing. What a bad thing

By the way, Ian Dale's black book is not filled with people who want to go on dates with him for obvious reasons It's rather a black book of people who he has decided to ban. Yes, that's right Mr. Free speech has a whole book a whole black book of people who he refuses to allow on his LBC radio show. He hadn't finished though, watch. And I think popular shouldn't be a pejorative word, I actually think it should be a positive word, because all politicians need to be popular to get elected. As far as I know he's never stood for public office, if he has he's never been elected. Put your money where your fucking mouth is made.

Put your money where your effing mouth is made. Oh like you did, Ian Dale, when you ran for a Conservative seat which you had slagged off as a shithole and then immediately had to drop out, you're an embarrassment. And the great thing is that we no longer are going to have to be dictated in our public discourse by idiots like Ian Dale. So Tommy Robinson and Ian Dale are then engaged in quite a feud on X with Ian posting there was a time 10 or 12 years ago when you used to ring in under a false name to get on the show I remember it well. Tommy replied saying grow up Ian stop trying to make yourself

relevant off the back of my success fossils like you are irrelevant no one listens to you anymore or trust the MSM. Clowns like you are in my rearview mirror just like the Conservative Party. Dale add your pronoun to your bio. Pronoun has been. Imagine this has been dinosaur thinking I want to go on his show. And then Ian Dale of course had to turn to the oldest trick in the book which is basically to say oh but my old media ratings are really good writing nah mate I have the highest audience of any political radio show in the evening and if you want to add me if you want me to add a pronoun how about you do the same I guess it would be hashtag convicted criminal.

Connor Tomlinson, who came out on top? Well, Ian Dale saying I've got the highest ratings for political radio slot in the evening is a bit like saying, oh, I'm the first local councillor in South Dorset over 40 to be elected in about three and a half years. Congratulations. Let me throw you a... Also, the idea that Ian Dale was on the right, am I missing something? I mean, was he ever considered on the right? Well, he was the editor of Conservative Home, wasn't he? I mean, I always find it astonishing,

I find it astonishing because he's a lefty as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I also had forgotten the Tunbridge Wells thing, Dan, so thanks for the good laugh. You said you forgot me that once, yeah, Tunbridge Wells. He got trounced by Robinson. It's not particularly difficult. And it's because, number one, okay, if Robinson called into his show, I don't care. He'd spend so much time talking about the man that, fair enough, he probably wanted right of reply and knew that he wouldn't be put through on air to defend himself if he

hadn't given a false name or something, which just shows you that I Dale's got, you know, insidious tactics and he's very underhanded. But also the accusation that Tommy Robinson wants to incite racial hatred. I mean number one, that's a crime in this country, so you know, you've got to be pretty specific about that, but Robinson is one of the only men in this country who can get away with libeling without, you know, facing repercussions for it. But two, and I say this sort of value neutrally, Tommy Robinson is just a civic nationalist. Like he, he only ever talks about his British values and he's pretty happy with immigration as long as it's not from Islam because he thinks in terms of, you know, ideas and quantity rather than

race or even ethnicity to an extent. I mean, the amount of photos that Tommy Robinson has draped in an Israeli flag and you're going to say he's dedicated to inciting racial hatred. This is why legacy media just doesn't work. One does not have to be a sort of great fan of Tommy Robinson. I'm pretty apathetic on the chap and I think even he would admit that he's a flawed personality as he did in his previous interview with Andrew Gold, which was very good by the way. But the claim that he dedicates his entire career to inciting racial hatred, when most of the entourage that he goes to the United Kingdom rallies with are starting to look a bit like the village people in their diversity, it just doesn't wash. And so people are tuning out of LBC and tuning into the alternative media instead.

And thank God for that. And what is very interesting on the Tommy Robinson front at the moment, as I do see a shifting of the Overton window. Big developments on that front, summed up here by Basil the Great, who posted on X, reform London Mayor candidate Ant Middleton comes out in support of Tommy Robinson. Now, I would say probably coming out in support of Tommy Robinson has meant that Ant Middleton will no longer be Reform UK's London mayoral candidate. I should stress by the way that candidacy has never been confirmed, although Ant Middleton has not made any secret about the fact that he wants it. However, he's also been absolutely brilliant and strident at the moment.

And I completely love what Ant Middleton is doing because I think it's people like him who are going to shift the Overton window. So here's what he had to say about Tommy Robinson. He wrote, well, he wrote, well, Tommy Robinson wrote Ant Middleton for London Mayor and then Ant replied in need and a must before it's too late. Then linking to Tommy Robinson's film, he posted definitely worth a watch and I have to say that Tommy Robinson is a phenomenal, credible journalist whose work is extremely accurate as I've

experienced and still experience this firsthand. The truth with TR in uppercase for Tommy Robinson always comes out no matter how hard the MSM and government try to manipulate it or cover it up. Tommy you have certainly found your niche in being a fearless journalist dedicated to revealing dark truths. It suits you. Stick with it man, and great work on your last couple of pieces projects, intrigued to see more." Tommy then replied, thanks for the kind words, I have watched the media attempt to assassinate you so many times, they hate a strong positive masculine role model for young men. Mya Toosie, independent broadcaster, big Tommy Robinson supporter posted Ant Middleton will never

be a reform candidate now that he's back Tommy Robinson. It's over and is correct by the way. So look, I love this Connor Tomlinson because I think in a lot of ways it's going to be people like Ant Middleton who shift the Overton window when it comes to reform UK's position on Tommy Robinson. But do you agree with Maia Tusi that this means his political ambitions for reform are over before they've even begun? Yeah, I do think that's probably the case. I think what will probably happen now, as has been rumoured, I think it was in the Mirror about a week ago,

Farrell will probably end up picking Derek Trezora as the London mayoral candidate and said they've been friends for quite some time and this is no disparagement to Derek especially because his fantastic boxing career makes me far too afraid to ever say anything bad about him, I'll take my head clean off but I think that part of the reason he might be picked is because he has regime approved body armor given he is a Zimbabwean immigrant versus Ant Middleton who has a criminal conviction and is a white British chap. As far as Ant Middleton being outspoken about liking who he likes, good on him, I think we should encourage that culture. And I think that frankly, again, no matter one's thoughts on Tommy Robinson

are, we should want a country that doesn't need Tommy Robinson. Tommy Robinson should still be a property developer and going to the old Luton match and maybe drinking a bit too much and being packed into the back of a cab by his friends. He should not have had to dedicate his life to activism on something as horrific as the grooming, exploitation and torture of thousands of white working class girls

across this country by a client group that the Labour government relies on for votes and have petrified that they're walking off the plantation. So, Ant Middleton completely correct in terms of his conduct, in terms of saying that Robinson has been right on the grooming gangs. And unfortunately, I think Maya Toosie is correct that reform will be too worried about external perceptions to put forward Ant Middleton when I think he'd be a perfectly popular candidate. And what's interesting is that when you look at the people who have been against Tommy Robinson for so long, but not just against Tommy Robinson, by the way, trying to create bogeymen of lots of

people who they claim to be far right. And in their most recent list, this is Hope Not Hate, by the way, I even made the list, which proves to me that this is a complete joke of an organisation. But what's so interesting is that when they are confronted, they don't want to talk, they don't want to address these claims. So great work was done this week by the Voice of Wales team, who tracked down Nick Lowles of Hope Not Hate and they posted that he was given the opportunity to answer the questions around his false posts which incited riots in Birmingham. He was quick enough to make false allegations about Tommy Robinson however when confronted he ran to the nearest taxi absolute coward

and I'll show you that in just one moment but to give you the context of course Nick Lowles posted after that disorder following the Southport massacre that there had been examples of acid attacks against Muslims. This was of course a complete lie, completely made up. It enhanced racial tensions far more than anything Lucy Connolly or Julie Sweeney ever posted yet Nick Lowles as far as we're aware was not even interviewed by the police so when the Voice of Wales tracked him down this week Nick Lowes wasn't having a bar of it because he's gutless watch

I don't want to talk to you. Come on Nick, don't touch my camera. I'm here. You're not Nick though. Watch out Nick. I just want to have a chat with you. Come on Nick, let's have a chat. So obviously you accused Tommy Robinson of putting out inciting messages in the South Port massacre. When what you did, you were the one that said

there was acid attacks. Come on Nick, why can't you answer the question? You're very vocal online but we're here now, we can have a chat, we're having a civilised conversation. I'm not being mean, I'm not being nasty, I'm not being aggressive. So do you think when you put out that there was an acid attack and then incited riots in Birmingham, do you think that was a good thing to do? When obviously what you say is that you don't want to incite riots, you accusing Tommy of inciting riots, but then you incited riots. It led to a lot of white British people getting their shit kicked out of them Nick. Do you have any regrets about it? Come on Nick, surely to God you can speak to me as a human, do you have any regrets about it? Come on, Nick. Surely to God you can speak to

me as a human. Do you have any regrets about putting up that false allegation? What do you think when there's someone like Lucy Connolly sat in the prison cell and you get to go home to the family? Obviously a big part of, you know, when you're sentencing someone is intent. What do you, Lucy Connolly intended to incite anyone to do anything? Come on Nick. You look, look you wrote, you've written about me a lot and you know you have. So you're here now, you can actually speak to me. Okay. Rather than do it online. So look, we're not being aggressive, we're not being hostile, you know. Just have a chat. Why do you want to chat?

I don't want to. Why not? Come on Nick, it's an opportunity. It's just a conversation. Do you think that when you put out that someone's attacked with acid in Birmingham by the EDL, which has all come out now as false? Obviously, by the way, it's all come out as false.

Now I think Voice of Wales there, Conor Tomlinson, were incredibly respectful. because you know that Nick Lowles will immediately try and paint them as far right extremists because they're not what mainstream media journalists who are the only people he respects but that was just a traditional doorstep, the type of doorstep I see all the time conducted by sly news or GB news, and he was totally gullus, not prepared to back up his, I think, completely insane attacks on patriots at all.

Yeah, the Voice of the World's team were remarkably polite and they did a very good job there. I think communist Penfold in question was only allowed to be so arrogant because he's protected by the state, and this is blatantly obvious to anyone who's been the target of hope not hate smears, yourself Dan and me as of last year when I had a very polite chat with our mutual friend Liz Trust but also my friend Charles Cornishdale, Roarag Nationalist who they doxed. It looked like they did something called a parallel construction, which is they sourced his identity from an intelligence contact and then built up a plausible story around it to hide the fact that they got it from a government source. And you might think that's a bit crackpot, but okay, let's lay this out a little bit.

Nick Laws spreads the false allegation that there are acid attacks on Muslim women during the Southpaw protests and riots. It's shared by Josh Fenton-Glynn, Labour MP. Cleveland police in Middlesbrough then have to come out and give a statement saying we've had no evidence of this. And then a Pakistani Muslim counter-protester, as one of the members of the militia, shouts into a camera, we are British Pakistanis, our parents, we came here, we're born here, and our Muslim sisters are getting acid attacks, we're out here to defend ourselves. So there's a clear line of incitement going on.

Nick Lowles never questioned and asked about it. Also not asked about the fact that he spread a hoax, and he admitted it was a hoax, of over a hundred far-right rallies, where then, miraculously, stand-up-to-racism chapters were activated. And hope not hate, stand-up-to-racism, they get funding, by the way, from the Home Office and another charity the Paul Hamlin Foundation to establish these local activist chapters to activate overnight. Suddenly they prop up in every town and city to be photographed for the front page of every newspaper the next day with all the same framing that this was an organic uprising against the far right. That's where Ricky Jones, by the way, Dartford Labour Councillor,

called to slit the throats of people. He's still not been charged. Funny that. All of these things, all of these things are very suspicious, as was Harry Shuckman, the employee of Hope Not Hate, who used a fake passport to entrap subjects of their documentary, basically violating the government documents laws. All of these things are very curious. Why weren't they charged? Well, it turns out that Nick Lowles and Lord Homer have been friends for years. They both worked on the Searchlight magazine together, which was the anti-fascist communist magazine that was the precursor to Hope Not Hate. They have a parliamentary working group.

They have a Baroness on their roof, Ruth Smith, who was noted in an American communique as a high profile of interest. They've got connections to the intelligence services, they get funding from the Home Office, and they have got their allies sitting in government. So it's not just a two-tier justice system, it is blatantly protecting their friends from the law while bearing it crushingly down on mothers like Lucy Connolly. Very, very well put, Conor Tonnison. Do stand by though, because in just one minute, oh my goodness, this has actually made me more angry than anything this

week and that's saying something given the news agenda at the moment Jacinda Ardern a truly evil politician lying to Oprah Winfrey about empathy and play what she said and react with Connor in just one minute but first something really important to talk to you about. Scammers and spammers who are out there to ruin your life. Now we've all experienced more and more of those spam emails, text messages and robo phone calls. Not only are they annoying and time consuming to deal with,

but they usually represent a gross invasion of your private information that can cause vast financial and reputational damage. By the way, how the hell did they get your information in the first place? Well, it's likely as a result of data brokers who know everything about you, your health, information, relationship status, mortgage details,

and they sell it for a profit. Now these data brokers can directly or indirectly expose sensitive information to bad actors putting you at risk of identity theft. The number of data breaches worldwide rises every year. According to the annual data breach report by the Identity Theft Resource Center, it went up 72% in 2023 compared to the previous year. This means you and your loved ones are also at constantly increasing risk of data breaches as a growing list of data brokers hold your personal information. That is then sold or published online without you even knowing about it. The consequences

for that, well I know you can imagine, but they can be shocking. Like health insurance companies could rise your rates, increase your rates based on your online activity. Huge loans have been taken under people's names without them even knowing about it. And scammers have even started to use AI to mimic the voices of friends and family to trick victims into sending their money. These are called imposter scams and they rely entirely on the data they can find online. Now you could ask these data brokers to delete your personal information but the process takes hundreds of hours to do manually and requires repetition. The good news is that today I have a solution for you.

It's one that I use and personally endorse. So go to incognito.com slash outspoken. You'll get 60% off an annual plan today. What Incognito does is reach out to these data brokers on your behalf, request your personal data removal, handle any objections from their side. The whole process is automated, ensuring that your data stays off the market

by conducting repeated removals and taking down your data if it pops up again. This is what makes our yearly subscription especially advantageous. I do the annual plan. It means they're constantly taking me off these lists. And by the way, the process to set up, super simple. You just create an account,

grant Incognito the right to work for you. They will contact the data brokers on your behalf to request your personal data removal. So go to incognito.com slash outspoken and get 60% off an annual plan right now. It could be the most important decision you make. But now back to the show. Jacinda Ardern is on an international campaign to convince the world that kindness and empathy

is what made her a famous politician. Now this woman is the opposite of kind. She is the opposite of empathetic. Indeed, I believe she is one of the most evil politicians of the modern era. So let me show you the Guardian magazine front page, which has obviously been all over her. And I love the fact actually that our good friends were able to come up with much more appropriate wording for this cover. But Jacinda Ardern is actually someone who has lied very much about what made her famous and the decisions that she made, no more so than in this interview with Oprah Winfrey. This woman has been a heroine, a hero for me for so many years. I've admired her from afar.

And this is the first time I've had the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation because she's written a book called A Different Kind of Power. And I love that you call it that because the different kind of power is kindness. Absolutely. And I love that you call it that, because the different kind of power is kindness. Absolutely. It's all those things that you think are weaknesses or are taught are weaknesses. Empathy, sensitivity, self-doubt and humility.

They're powerful. What I admire is that you're a prime minister and you made a decision that I am going to have kindness as a principle for my administration. So did you have a meeting with everybody? Did you have a kindness gathering? You know we'd spent a lot of time looking at what was happening in New Zealand and it's not just about what you do when you're in government it's about the way you do it and I felt we've lost that humanity that we were there to

serve people and kindness was a really simple way've lost that humanity, that we were there to serve people and kindness was a really simple way to embody that. So no, we definitely didn't, we didn't do a huddle. We didn't workshop it. It was instinctive, but I think it was what we needed at the time. And I think it's what the world needs right now as well. I do too. Jacinda Ardern is a disgusting individual and one of the biggest liars in international politics. Because trust me, her regime, which was authoritarian during those hellish years of Covid-19, did not for one minute think about kindness. Now as you can imagine, this one might be personal to me.

I'm a dual citizen of Britain and New Zealand. I was born in New Zealand to British parents, and I spent my first 21 years in that country. And I saw close up how Jacinda Ardern tore the very fabric of New Zealand society apart by being utterly cruel over that period. When I say it's personal to me, I just want to tell you a little bit about Jacinda Ardern's kindness, because that kindness involved my best friend being locked in a COVID, it's called a hotel, but the UN actually examined it and said that it would

not pass the test as a place to house political prisoners during a war. So when my best friend This friend was locked up by the New Zealand government. Their mother died in a hospital just down the road. They were unable to be released as a result. What then happened in the aftermath completely destroyed their lives. That's something you will never get over. I've got other friends in New Zealand who have been thrust out of what we would consider mainstream society forever because of the so-called kindness that Jacinda Ardern pushed on New Zealand over that time. Because if you were not prepared to be vaccinated for COVID-19, Jacinda Ardern was very clear that she didn't want you in society. Do you remember that? Jacinda Ardern laughed and joked about the fact that her vaccine mandates were designed to create a two-tier society. And that's exactly what she did. One of my friends from school was

a pharmacist, a passionate pharmacist, working in one of the most underprivileged deprived areas of New Zealand, serving the community for 20 years. He lost his job because he refused to take the vaccine, and that was a government mandated firing under Jacinda Ardern. He will never, ever trust the government again. He has never returned to that kind of work again, and he never will. Because Jacinda Ardern's kindness tore New Zealand apart. I have hundreds of other stories like this. Veterinarians, teachers, police officers, army officers, firefighters, all torn apart and thrust out of mainstream society because of Jacinda Ardern's so-called kindness, forcing

people to take a medical experiment against their will. There are hundreds of stories where people were locked up in Jacinda Ardern's state run detention facilities while their relatives died down the road. And for me personally, this absolutely insane woman stopped me from seeing my own family and friends for three years and actually stopped my legal birthright to return to my country of birth. So can we please, please, Oprah Winfrey, not do another Meghan Markle? Because when Jacinda Ardern tells you that she is kind and empathetic and her entire career was based on this kindness, she is lying to you.

What, because she's a young woman who is maybe relatively attractive and who gave birth to a baby while in office? That automatically means that you just believe her, you believe what she has to say without actually looking into the facts. New Zealand ended COVID as not only a divided society, but an impoverished society. Jacinda Ardern only quit. It was nothing to do

with wanting to be with her young child by the way. She only quit because she knew she was about to get her ass booted out in the biggest landslide in New Zealand political history. She was replaced by a right-wing populist government who is still trying to pick up the pieces of her absolutely horrendous socialism. And by the way, all of Jacinda's policies, which were to eradicate poverty for example, were so ludicrous that what they have actually done is create more poverty because New Zealand is a far poorer society both in terms of economic and moral terms than it ever was before her reign. So do not believe this sympathy to her. Do not believe Jacinda Ardern acting like the young celebrity with Oprah Winfrey or Stephen Colbert because this is an evil politician. At least some people get it by the

way. I like Timothy Stanley in the Daily Telegraph giving her virtue signaling memoir one star, writing, in a different kind of power the former New Zealand leader advocates for empathy in politics, shame she shows so little for her critics. And Conor Tomlinson of Tomlinson Talks, and Courage Media who joins me now. Don't you think the way that Jacinda Ardern is given this red carpet treatment shows you everything that is wrong with the mainstream media today? It is identity politics pure and simple.

It's so obvious that Oprah Winfrey has not even done the slightest bit of research into this woman's actual record. Yeah, it's clear that Oprah hasn't even read the slightest bit of research into this woman's actual record. Yeah, it's clear that Oprah hasn't even read the book, which is pretty common for most interviewers. As you said, Dan, I can't put it any better than you did, your heartfelt monologue against the tyranny that she inflicted upon New Zealand during COVID. She gloated about the fact that her policies intended to create a two-tier society with those who complied with the unnecessary and coercive COVID vaccine mandate and those

who took their bodily autonomy into their own hands, as was their right. But I wanted to pick up on one thing, and that is that we have this mythology ever since the end of the Second World War, where the only tyrants come packaged in sharp uniforms with shouty voices and that they're male, right? Toxic masculinity leads ineluctably to the mistreatment of women and minorities and building the gas chambers of Dachau, right? That's not the case. Equal and opposite reactions exist, and what you have in Jacinda Ardern is the pathological devouring mother, the person who puts forward her abundance of empathy and compassion and her striving to equality as the excuse to tyrannise anyone that is an enemy of

said equality and compassion with a smile. That's why she always nodded and smiled as she inflicted the absolute worst sort of second-class citizen treatment on her own citizens. She is the kind of mother, not the sort of classic statue of Mary that's holding the baby Jesus and standing on the head of the snake that's trying to bite him, but actually holding her baby out to attract predators. Then she just says, oh, well, I've defended them against them. Aren't I the good one? Meanwhile, she's putting everyone that she claims to love in danger. Beware of people that come masquerading their vindictiveness and their desire for power

and enrichment in the false pretense of being just so empathetic that politics itself couldn't stand them. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about Jacinda Ardern and those like her, the globalist drones that imprisoned us for two years in our own homes. And I think that the entire charade that this interview has done, which I subjected myself to before coming on to talk about it, by the way, and I wish I hadn't, I think it's just grotesque. It is. It is. It is completely grotesque, but we know Connor they look after their own but thank God That's why these outlets are becoming far less important than they once were. Connor Tomlinson of Tomlinson Talks Courage Media

Oh my goodness, I'm gonna be tuned in to Rupert Lowe the interviews of what it's released Tomorrow on your YouTube. Is that right? 12 o'clock live. It's gonna be interesting. Yeah, no, I'm very, very excited about that. Cannot wait to see it. Thank you so much, Connor. Have an amazing weekend. But of course, before we go today, it is time to reveal the worst Britain in the world this week. Let me remind you of the nominees. Remember, this is when we take your Union Jackasses from across the week and put them head to head. So on Monday it was an honorary, an honorary Union Jackass Greta Thunberg because she's on this little mission to Gaza, isn't she? Judge John McAver was on Tuesday. How astonishing, we've got no photo of this guy.

Shouldn't we have photos of every judge in the country? But this is the man who decided to lock up a Brit for burning the Quran. On Wednesday it was Lord Herman, the Attorney General, need I say more, but of course we learnt this week that he personally approved the prosecution of Britain's political prisoner Lucy Connolly. And on Thursday, Zia Youssef, the newly departed Reform UK chairman. Lots of comments from you coming in, happy french fries right? I really pity Greta, she is obviously extremely mentally unwell, but instead of getting her help, people are just using her. I hope Israel takes her to a facility where she can receive treatment. PinkyBalu wrote, Herma by a country mile, this man is likely to bring our two tier justice system into greater

disrepute and White Rose Republic 1699 said, Herma is a subversive little degenerate who has already done an insane amount of harm to this country. He should be serving a life sentence in a deep cesspit. Please don't hold back. Please I would not want you to hold back in your comments. No I love them. You know I love them. Okay let's reveal the results. In fourth position Judge John McAver with 7% of the vote. In third position Zia Youssef with 16% of the vote. Your runner-up, Greta Thunberg, with 28% of the vote. But the worst Briton in the world this week,

with 50% of your vote, Lord Hermer. Thank you so much for your company all week. We're not done yet, though. Please come over and join us on Substack at www.outspoken.live for the Royal Uncancelled Aftershow with Angela Levin, where Meghan Markle has briefed against her own husband, Prince Harry, to her favorite magazine people

in the latest shocking PR stunt from The Fake Duchess. We're gonna analyze it all. And actually we've got so much, so much big royal news to discuss with Angela Levin. Oh yeah, there it is, front cover of people. I'd love you to be part of our community on Substack. www.outspoken.live. I hope you have a wonderful weekend.

I've actually got such a relaxing one planned, actually. No plans. And sometimes don't you think it's just the best thing to have no plans? Like, I'm so excited. I'm barely gonna leave the house. I'm gonna become a hermit. And actually, that's Like I'm so excited. I'm barely going to leave the house. I'm going to become a hermit. And actually that's what I'm there for. So I hope you have either something exciting planned or maybe are just planning to do what I do and take a bit of time out over the weekend. But I will be back live with you on Monday.

I can't wait to see you then. Remember it's 5pm UK time, midday eastern, 9am Pacific. If you want to be alerted to our new videos please subscribe on YouTube and Rumble, turn on the notification bell. That's the best way that you don't miss anything and it's really really important you know you just click the button then you click the bell and most importantly I promise to keep fighting for you.