Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe - Listener Questions 49: Black Holes, Neutrinos and Gravitational waves!

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Daniel and Jorge answer questions from listeners and get stuck in philosophical rabbit holes.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were, like, riding the lime bikes the other day,

and we're like, we're like, we're like, people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Smokey the bar. Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful.

It's the least that you can do. Because it's what you desire. Don't play with matches. Don't play with fire. After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smoky Bear lives within us all. Learn more at smokybear.com. And remember,

Only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the ad council. Tune in to All the Smoke Podcast, where Matt and Stacks sit down with former first lady, Michelle Obama. Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people, and you're sitting in their kitchen tables,

and they're talking like we're talking. And, you know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack grew up. And you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race. All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama. To hear this podcast and more, open your free IHeartRadio app. Search All the Smoke and listen now. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship.

I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Wittmer, Jody Sweetie. Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on She Pivotts, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Daniel, is it true that every electron is identical? Well, they all do have the same mass and the same charge.

Like exactly? Yeah, we think so. Isn't that weird? Wouldn't you expect them to be a little bit different each one? It's kind of exactly not weird. It means that no electrons are weird because they are all the same. I don't know, man. That's a bit spooky.

Like if everyone in your neighborhood look the same, wouldn't that be weird? I mean, I live in Orange County, so that's kind of what most people in the neighborhood are going. put it going for. Everyone's going for that scruffy physicist look. More like plastic surgery face and beige housing. Well, I didn't want to say anything, but I do feel like you need a facelift anyway. Or at least a physics lift. and the author of Oliver's Great Big Universe.

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at UC Irvine, and I'm proud of being one of a kind. But what kind is that, Daniel? That's the question that you... The pride might depend on. Yeah, I define my kind, man.

There's nobody else like me. How do you know, though? Have you met everyone who's ever existed? What if there was a Daniel with your exact same DNA that, you know, lived 200 years ago? Or could be living right now? It's possible, but they wouldn't have the same experiences.

I have actually met another Daniel Whiteson. He's an artist in the UK and quite accomplished. Ooh, are you jealous? Am I jealous of the artist's lifestyle? Ooh, so many directions to go with that. What was that like? I don't think I've ever met a Jorge Cham yet. But I think one exists, somewhere in Indonesia maybe.

Isn't there another one who has the Twitter handle at Jorge Cham? Somebody got that Twitter handle. I don't know if it is or H.M. or not. But I'm waiting for the blackmail email. Yeah, well, at least a digital copy of you exists. Or maybe I opened it years ago, but I forgot the password and the email I associated it with. So I don't know. Maybe I am my other me.

Yeah, maybe we're old enough that younger versions of us are like alien minds. Ooh, wait, wouldn't that make you an alien? I think we're all still struggling to know ourselves, right? Well, we might all be aliens, right? Isn't there a theory that maybe life came to Earth from Mars? There is a theory like that called panspermia that life may have originated somewhere else in the universe and then transported microbially hidden inside asteroids.

It's a possibility. We're all immigrants, kind of. But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge, explained the universe a production of iHeartRadio. In which we do our best to digest this alien universe to explain all of the bizarre and amazing effects we see out there in terms of little mathematical stories that your mind and my mind and Jorge's mind

can actually understand that we can talk about and digest and explain to you. That's right, because it is a pretty vast universe and it's also pretty weird full of unexplained phenomenon, unanswered questions, and potentially other versions of you out there. Raising all sorts of interesting philosophical questions like, what does it mean to have an identical copy

and when you step into a transporter on Star Trek, is it making a copy or actually transporting you? And what if like there's another Jorge and another Daniel and they start a podcast? Can we sue them technically? Or maybe just retiring and give them defeat. Yeah, maybe it's time for the next generation, right? The new Daniel and Jorge explain the universe.

Or Daniel and Jorge explain the universe the next generation. Exactly, yeah. One of us is Jean-Luc, because the other one is Riker. Wait, wait, wait. Your name comes first. Does that mean I'm number two? Make it so.

Can I just be Q? Like if I had to pick a character from the next generation, I would be Q. Really? Not data. Data might be the smartest one. It's smarter than Q can do anything in time and space? Q has no rules, so it doesn't really count. Exactly, exactly.

So you basically want to be God, you're saying. I mean, who doesn't? Come on. Q has so much responsibility. Every child who's dying of cancer, that's Q's fault. Is it, is it really? If you had the power to save a child and you didn't, then yeah, I think you're kind of responsible. Boy, that's a lot of guilt.

That's why I'd rather be data. You want to be data or be data? Yeah, that's a good question. I actually just want to harness data's computing powers to solve mysteries of universe. Yeah, but that's a lot of makeup to put on every day, though. It's pretty heavy. Yeah. But anyways, welcome to our podcast. We also like to answer questions, not just talk about the answers that physicists have found. We also like to think about questions about the universe. Because everybody's got questions. I've got questions. You've got questions. Everybody who looks up at the

night sky and wonders how it all works or stares down between their toes and wants to understand the tiniest particles is yearning to understand how the world works. And that means asking questions. And on this podcast, we answer questions at the edge of knowledge, those posed by physicists and those posed by listeners. So if you have questions about the nature of the universe or some explanation you've heard somewhere that didn't quite make sense to you, write to us to Questions at Danielanhorpe.com.

We really do right back to all of our listeners. Yeah, we're all curious about how the universe works, why we're in it and how it's all put together, although I'm not exactly curious about the particles in your toes or anyone's toes. maybe we'll leave that part out of our questions. Wow. Limits to your curiosity. That's so disappointing.

Yeah. I think there should be limits to anyone's curiosity. But yeah, we like to answer their questions here on the podcast. Sometimes from listeners. And so thanks to everyone who sent their questions in. Often I'll just write back. But sometimes we choose questions to answer on the podcast because we think lots of people will want to hear the answers.

And so today on the podcast we'll be tackling. Listener questions, number 49. Ooh, what are we going to do when we hit 50, Daniel? We're going to have a mid-podcast life crisis? We're going to have a nice cake with 50 on it, and we're going to fall asleep before the end of the party. And then burned your house stout? What? It's going to be virtual, of course.

But yeah, we're answering listener questions here today, and we have some awesome questions here from our listeners. There's one about black hole identity. There's one about neutrino and how many there are in the universe. And we also have a question about what it's like to surf a gravitational wave. And what happens when you wipe out? Like, where do you fall if it's a gravitational wave? Well, let's jump right in. Our first question comes from Matthew, who comes from Barry, Ontario.

Hello, Daniel and Jorge. This is Matthew from Barry, Ontario up here in Canada. And like many of your listeners, I spend a bit of time thinking about black holes. While I understand that it is impossible for us to see what lurks beyond the event horizon. I was curious if there is consensus in the scientific community about all black holes being the same or if they could vary inside based on their density. For example, could a smaller black hole be not a black hole at all, but a dark star while the supermassive black holes at the center of some galaxies be a more traditional black hole or a string theory fuzzball. Thank you very

much for the wonderful show and I look forward to hearing your response. All right. I feel like this question can has an identity problem in itself it's so many questions but also one but i think matthew's basic question is about the identity of black holes like are all black holes the same are they actually black holes could they be something else uh is it a case of mistaken identity or do all black holes come with an id tag yeah he's basically wondering what's going on inside black holes and if they all have to be the same on the inside and whether the things we've seen out there in the universe that look like black holes could actually be a bunch of different kinds of stuff that all mimic black holes. So it's a really cool question gets at the heart of what we think

is going on inside black holes. Like maybe what we call black holes are actually maybe a variety of different things. Yeah, it's possible. And two black holes with the same mass do they have to look the same on the inside? Wait, depending on how much mass is in it. Or like two things that look like black holes? Are they actually black holes? Or do you think he's asking if they're the same? If there's any property that sets them apart? Yeah, I think he's asking both of those questions. And I think we should start with that. Like if you have two black holes that have the same mass, are they the same thing? Are they indistinguishable or are they different? And this is a big question in general relativity. It goes by the name of do black holes have hair? Essentially, are there

texture or details? Are there tiny little properties that set two black holes, part the way two like identical twins are always a little bit different are two black holes with the same mass could they actually be a little bit different on the inside well i feel there's two questions one is like are they the same and can you tell if they're the same aren't those two separate questions yeah those are two separate questions so as you can see with black holes we have like a constantly multiplying stream of questions it's like a black hole of questions it's a bit of a rabbit hole. It's a black rabbit hole. So which, which question are we tackling? Can you tell if two black holes are different or whether they're actually different inside? Yeah, we can talk

about all of it, but let's start with what's going on inside black holes, at least what we think is going on. Okay. Well, you sort of mentioned the no hair problem. And that one's more of a like, can you tell if two black holes are different problem. I think it also touches on whether the black holes inherently are different. Are there features to two black holes which tell them apart? Because In general relativity, the idea is that all you can know about a black hole are three different quantities, how much mass it has, whether it's spinning, and whether it has electrical charge. And to say that that's all you can know about a black hole means that that's what defines a black hole.

So in general relativity, two black holes with the same mass, spin, and charge really are identical according to that theory. From the outside, right? I mean, it's basically saying that's all you can tell about what's inside a black hole. It means those are the only properties of the objects. So even on the inside, they would be identical. Again, according to general relativity, important caveat we can get to later. But I guess how can they be exactly identical or how can we know or how can the theory know that it's identical?

Because inside the black hole, maybe things are arranged differently. We can't know currently because we can't see inside black holes. But that doesn't stop the theory from predicting what's there and describe, being what we think is happening. And according to general relativity, again, big caveat there. We can get to in a minute, all these black holes, if they have the same mass spin and charge, really are identical. They have the same exact internal structure because they're defined just by those three

numbers. So there's no wiggle room. There's no opportunity for a black hole made of bananas to be different from a black hole made of bowling balls or squirrels if they have the same mass spin and charge. That's again, according to. to general relativity, which is predicting what's inside black holes, though it's not something we've seen. I guess what I mean is like a black hole is like a sphere, right?

Like to us, it has volume. And so what does general relativity predict is inside of that sphere? Just a singularity? Like everything just collapses instantly? Or what? Well, a black hole that's had time to settle, everything will fall towards singularity. So if things are still dynamically falling into a black hole, its state is changing. But after a long time, when it settles, then it's just defined by these three numbers.

And yet, two black holes with the same mass will each have a singularity inside them with the same mass. And nothing between the singularity and the event horizon. What does general relativity say is between the singularity, which is at the center, and the event horizon, which is the outer shell of the black hole. So it depends a little bit on the mass spin and charge. These kinds of black holes have different internal structures. Like the simplest kind, one with just mass, but no spin, no charge. This is the kind most people talk about and think about is just a sphere.

And in the inside, you have the singularity and there's nothing else. If it's charged or if it's spinning, then the structure in the inside is a little bit different. Like you don't actually have a singularity if it's spinning. You have a ringularity because you need an object that can spin and singularities can't. And you can have different kinds of horizons inside the black hole or even near the black hole on the outside if it's spinning and if it has charge. Well, that's an interesting concept you just mentioned, which is like the settling of a black hole.

Now, does that happen like instantly over billions of years, trillions? Does it ever happen? Like, doesn't time stop inside of a black hole? Nothing happens instantly, right? Relativity describes how there's a maximum speed limit to the universe. And so you definitely can't have things instantly collapsing into a singularity. It always takes time. How much time it takes depends on.

who you are and where you are like if you're outside the black hole and you're watching things fall in you'll actually not see them fall in because time slows down so much at the event horizon you'll see them frozen at the event horizon if you are riding that banana into the black hole then you will see yourself past the event horizon and you'll fall in and you'll reach the singularity in a finite amount of time so how long it takes depends on the observer in general relativity these things are very screwy but i guess maybe then the scenario I wonder that Matthew's thinking about me. Like if I had two black holes, they have the same mass and energy and spin and charge and all that.

They're identical. But then black hole A eats a banana and black hole B eats a bowling ball. Like to us, it takes some time for that banana to and bowling ball to make it to the center of the black hole. So are those two black holes different in the meantime? In the meantime, they are, yeah. But if the bowling ball and the banana have the same mass and like that's a tiny hole. a bowling ball or a huge banana, then eventually they do reach steady state, which is just described by the mass spin and charge.

But could we tell that one ate the banana and the other one ate the bowling ball? We couldn't, right? Not after they've settled into the singularity, exactly. According to general relativity, that information is lost. Before, that information is still within the event horizon. We can't see it, but it does still exist within the black hole. after it's settled into the singularity according to general relativity

that information is gone because the state is perfectly described by the mass been in charge so then it's sort of possible for two black holes to be different perhaps but for us to not be able to tell them apart yeah that is possible

and that's a transient state right well black holes are eating all the time right so black holes in the real world yeah are always eating they're always surrounded by something there's never a true vacuum there's always a solar wind or part particles everywhere. So yeah, absolutely black holes are always eating in real life.

In the sort of thought experiments you reconstruct, you can imagine a black hole surrounded by actually nothing and then you just drop a banana into it. But yeah, in the real universe, black holes are never surrounded by nothing. But I think as you were saying, this all depends on general relativity. Yeah, exactly. This is a picture from classical physics that says the singularities can exist within black holes and that matter could be compressed into a tiny dot. That's totally incompatible with what we know about the nature of reality. That is quantum mechanical. Though when things get really, really small like the size of singularities, different rules take over and have to be accounted for, rules that general relativity ignores. So we don't think

singularities actually do exist at the heart of any black holes in our universe. We think if black holes are even real, that there's some other kind of thing going on, something dictated by a different theory of physics, not general relativity, one that correctly incorporates. It's the quantum nature of our universe. A theory we don't have today, so we can't say what we actually think is inside a black hole. But I think maybe Matthew's question is, like, let's say black holes, they're all a little bit different inside,

depending on their density. Like maybe some of them are super dense, but don't collapse into a singularity, or maybe some do, or maybe some are more like string theory fuzz balls. I wonder if they can be different in that way inside. But to us, from the outside, They all look the same.

It's possible. And it depends on your flavor of quantum gravity. If what he's describing is true, there are no classical black holes in the universe. They're all some weird quantum version. And you're right, there could be a variety, right? There could be some fuzz balls and some dark stars and some white holes and some other kind of crazy stuff going on. And whether we could see the difference on the outside also depends on the details of the quantum gravity theory. In some scenarios, you can tell what's inside a black hole by studying the power.

by studying the patterns of the hawking radiation, which might be quantum entangled with the details of what's going on inside and leaking that information out. There are other quantum theories of black holes in which you still can't get that information out, even though it is inside the event horizon. So it depends on your flavor of quantum black hole. But it's possible that all these things do really exist in our universe. It sounds like it depends on what you define as a black hole, right?

Like if you define it as what a general relativity calls a black hole, then you get one answer. But if you just define it as something that has an event horizon that doesn't let you look inside, it is possible maybe to have different kinds of black holes. Exactly. And remember, not all of these objects even have event horizons. When we talk about a black hole, we sort of imply an event horizon. But it's possible that some of the things out there in the universe that we call black holes don't actually have event horizons. We haven't verified the event horizon nature of those objects.

They're just really, really small, really, really massive, and really, really spacebendy in the way we expect black holes to be. But we haven't, like, zoomed up close and proven that they actually have event horizons. And some of these theories don't create objects with event horizons. But some do, right? Like, you could have a dark star that does have an event horizon, perhaps. Yeah, some of them do. It depends on the flavor or quantum gravity. all right well then so then the answer for matthew is uh it depends and we don't know

that summarizes most of physics yes it depends on you know that black hole that's in your backyard what it means is that there's still so much to learn about the nature of these objects and the answer to the question might not be it's this kind or it's that kind but it's all the kinds i love that possibility so it sort of maybe depends on what's actually going on which we don't have a clear theory about. And we might not ever know. Ever? It might be that the universe prevents us from ever seeing inside these black holes or that the

information in the Hawking radiation doesn't reveal what's inside them. It might be that we're not smart enough to figure out the universe. Who knows? Boy, I wish you had left the question on a more positive note. But it could be that we figure it all out. There you go. In 10 generations, the latest Daniel and Jorge are explaining it all to you on their podcast. All right. All right. Yeah, that's good. That doesn't leave us in a black hole.

All right. Let's tackle some of our other questions. We have questions here about the number of neutrinos in the universe and also about what it's like to bob up and down on a gravitational wave. So let's dig into those. But first, let's take a quick break. Hola, it's HoneyGerman. And my podcast, Grasias Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper. into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition.

I haven't audition in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success.

You were destined to be a start. We talked all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing Vibras you've come to expect. And, of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash

because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash, because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah? But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasasas Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro? Tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge.

It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets.

With over 37 million downloads, We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I had this, like, overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then. And I just hit call. I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation, and I just wanted to call on and let her know. There's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast, Season 2, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community.

September is National Suicide Prevention Month, So join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat army veteran and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. Don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission.

I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're answering questions from listeners. And our next question comes from Sam from British Columbia. Hello, Daniel and Jorge. This is Sam from British Columbia. And thank you for your podcasts and availability to answer our questions.

It is really appreciated. In your podcasts about neutrinos, you always mention how many trillions are passing through the earth every second. This got me wondering about how many neutrinos are estimated to exist in the universe, as well as proportions for the other main particle groups in the standard model. It has often estimated that there are 10 to the 80 particles in the universe. When I asked chat GPT for help, I got back that each of the groups of leptons, quarks, and both sounds, each were in the order of 10 to the 80. and then that there were significantly more electrons than neutrinos

and also that there were about 10 to the 80 of each. I think chat GPT once again was confused and I'm hoping you can help unconfuse me. Thanks. All right. Well, I'm glad that we were his second choice for answering questions about the universe. Oh, man, chat GPT.

I guess chat GPT is free, I guess. You don't have to listen to ads, do you? I think you have to pay for some version of chat GPT, though no version of it can be relied on to answer physics questions. I see. Well, you know what they say. You get what you pay for. You do get what you pay for.

It sounds like Chad GPT did not answer Sam's question. Or gave him an answer that maybe it was confusing. Well, it's also not designed to answer physics questions. It's designed to generate text, which looks like the answers to questions. It's not designed to do any reasoning or have a model of the universe or actually think in any way or be accurate or explain things. So I wouldn't rely on chat GPT to answer any questions. Yet.

You could say that about anything, man. Your toaster hasn't replaced you yet. Well, you know, it's like they say chat GPT is not designed to do basic math, right? Like if you ask it a math question, it may not give you the right answer. But I've seen examples of like asking Chad GPT to check using some sort of math toolbox and then it gives you the right answer. Yeah. You know, a stop clock is right a few times. times a day, right?

Yeah, yeah. So you could ask GPD twice a day to go read every physics paper in the universe and then come back to you with an answer, which is basically what we do in this podcast, right? But it's the wrong tool for the job. You know, its job is to generate text which resembles answers, not to reason and think and provide explanations. I don't think it'll ever be a good place to ask physics questions. I see, I see.

Some day, somebody might actually develop an AI, which is good at the reasoning and thinking and explaining. I'm not ruling that out. I'm pretty sure that will happen one day, but large language models won't get there. I think what you're saying is that we're the right tools. Yes, ask us. We're just a pair of tools.

Just like data on Star Trek, right? There you go. There you go. Maybe the next chat, GBT should be called Daniel and Jorge. Chat DJ. All right, well, let's get to Sam's question here. Sam wants to know how many neutrinas there are in the universe, right? Like, what's a good estimate for the number of neutrinos in the universe?

Such an awesome question, because there are so many neutrinos in the universe. It's mind-boggling. Well, there's a lot of everything in the universe, right? Well, there's only one me and one you. How do you know? Shipathias, man. If there's another copy of me, it's not me. Well, there could be one, a you that has gone through the same experiences as you. Wouldn't that be the same? Anyways, let's get back on track here. It's a big universe. Sam wants to know how many neutrinos there are.

Why do you think he wants to know how many there are? Like, why neutrinos? Why not how many electrons or quarks there are in the universe? I think because neutrinos give us a window into a deeper understanding of what's out there in the universe. Like we're made out of quarks and electrons and that feels like, oh, that's the universe. What's all that made out of? But as soon as you realize that our senses are limited and that there's so much more, more going on in the universe than the little bits of matter that you and I are made out of.

It makes you wonder what's out there and how much of it is there. And neutrinos are like the tip of that invisible matter iceberg. I see. Well, how would you answer the question of how many neutrinos there are? Yeah, so it takes a few steps. Basically, you have to know how many protons there are in the universe. And then you have to try to figure out how many neutrinos there are per proton. And it turns out that we can do both of those calculations.

Wait, why do we have to go through protons? Because the way we figure out how many neutrinos there are in the universe is that going back to the very, very early universe and understanding how photons and protons and neutrinos and dark matter all sloshed around and pushed against each other. It's this plasma soup in the very beginning of the universe that reveals the answers to all of these questions. From measurements of the cosmic microwave background,

we can learn a lot about that plasma and how it was sloshing and it tells us the answers to all of these things. In specific ways, it tells us some ratios that allow us to get to these answers. Like the beginning of the universe tells you the original recipe of the universe, kind of. Yeah, exactly. And some of that hasn't changed. And some of that has changed. And we know how that has changed and we can evolve that through time.

But it basically starts the machine and tells us how things evolve through time. But is it even possible to get this answer? Because aren't neutrinos being created, for example, all the time in the sun? Like, aren't new neutrinos being made all the time? Yeah, the specific number to the individual neutrino is not very well defined because neutrinos are quantum particles and so they even have probabilities of existing. Like you have a certain reaction that might generate neutrinos, whether it actually did or not isn't even determined until it interacts with some classical objects. So from a quantum mechanical point of view, getting the answer down to like the individual neutrino is not technically possible. And even zooming out a little bit, as you say, there are neutrino factories in the universe.

and neutrinos being annihilated, neutrinos can be created and destroyed. So the number is changing. But it turns out that the number of neutrinos being created and destroyed in the universe is really tiny compared to like the huge reservoir of neutrinos we already have. How do you know?

Because we think we understand those processes and we've measured neutrinos that come from space and neutrinos that pass to the Earth. Neutrino physics is something we really started to get a grip on in like the last 20 years. So we have a pretty good handle on how many neutrinos are out there and how many are being made by the sun.

We even see neutrinos generated by crazy sources in other galaxies. Neutrino astronomy is something that's really come into its own the last couple of decades. And so what's the picture? It's like the sun is making bazillions of neutrinos, but that's very like a drip of water compared to like we're swimming in an ocean of neutrinos. Is that kind of what you're saying? Exactly. It's like asking, what's the volume of the Pacific?

Well, you don't really have to worry about evaporation and rain because those are tiny details relative to the massive volume of water there. And so then what's the connection to protons? Why do we need to know how many protons there are? Because we only know how many neutrinos there are per proton. That's a measurement we can make back in the very early universe. If you wind the universe backwards, we see that it gets hotter and denser. Right now the universe is kind of old and cold, very dilute, very chill. But as you wind time backwards and you undo the expansion, things get very hot and very dense, back to some early state where there were protons and

there were photons and there were also neutrinos zipping about. And we can see photons from that moment. This is the moment we call the surface of last scattering when the universe became transparent to those photons so they're still around. So we can like see a picture of what that early universe plasma looked like. It's called the cosmic microwave background radiation. And we can see patterns in it. We see wiggles and we see waves. Those wiggles and waves are determined by how it's sloshing, which depends on like how many protons there are, how many photons there are, how much dark matter there is. As you change those fractions, that early universe plasma sloshes differently because those different pieces all behave

differently. But even neutrinas were consequential at the beginning of the universe? Because I thought neutrinos were basically massless and they're ghostly and they don't really interact with anything much. Isn't there like a wide range of neutrino proportions? that could have been there at the beginning of the universe? Yeah, absolutely. Neutrinos don't interact very much, but they do have energy. And so they affect the energy density of the universe, which changes its expansion. And because neutrinos are very, very light, they sort of fall into the same category as photons.

Back in the early universe, everything that was moving almost at the speed of light or at the speed of light gets counted kind of as radiation. Remember, we talked about this once. And stuff that's moving very, very slowly gets counted as matter. And so things that are moving as radiation do affect the expansion of the universe because they affect the energy density in this complicated way. So you're right, the neutrinos are weak, but they still have energy and that affects the overall balancing of these equations in general relativity. There's still a piece of the pie. Yeah, exactly. And it turns out there's a huge number of them, so they have a pretty big influence.

Oh, how big of a number? Like if you had a pie chart of the universe at the beginning and the Big Bang, how big is the neutrino slice? Yeah, so you wouldn't even be able to see the protons on that pie chart because they're approximately one billion neutrinos for every proton. Well, in terms of quantity, but in energy, how big of a slice is it? There the numbers are much more closely balanced. There are many fewer protons, but protons have a huge mass compared to neutrinos that have almost no mass. On the other hand, the neutrinos have a lot more kinetic energy, right? They're moving really, really fast.

They're almost at the speed of light. So the energies there are much better balance. They're in the same order of magnitude. The numbers aren't exactly determined. But the original question was about the number of neutrinos in the universe. And so there we need the number ratio. And the cosmic microwave back around radiation tells us that there are like 330 million neutrinos per cubic meter. And there was less than one proton per cubic meter.

So the ratio is about a billion. I see. So neutrinos were a pretty significant slice of the universe. But in terms of quantity, like number of neutrinos, because they're so small in light, the number of them dwarves the number of protons around this. Exactly. So there's this incredible ocean of neutrinos back in the early universe and still today. Like the density of neutrinos has dropped because the universe expands and everything gets

more dilute except for dark energy, but most of those neutrinos are still around. It's called the cosmic neutrino background and it's something we're searching for in neutrino experiments. Does it depend still on the number of protons? Is it the same ratio? Like 330 million to one or billion to one? It depends a little bit what you count as a proton. Like some of those protons go on to make helium. There's still protons in there.

But now we call them helium instead of protons or hydrogen. But most of those protons are still around and most of those neutrinos are still around. And because they're both matter, they both get diluted in the same way as the universe expands. And so their ratio is approximately the same. then to get a count of the number of neutrinos we need a count of the number of protons so how many protons are there in the universe so in the observable universe we don't know what's in the full universe right past where we can see we know the density of protons which is about a fifth per cubic meter and we know roughly the volume of the observable universe which is like

10 to the 80 cubic meters or so and that means around 10 to the 79 protons in the observable universe. That's 10 with 79 zeros. It's not even like a name for that number. Sure there is. We can make one up. All right. There will be soon. What's the name for that number? Benannion. Coincidentally, there's exactly one Benanian of protons in the universe. Oh my gosh. Such a coincidence. Which means that there's a billion bananions of neutrinos in the universe because it's about a billion neutrinos per proton. So 10 to the one. What, 88?

About 10 to the 88 neutrinos in the observable universe. Observable universe. But the observable universe is getting bigger every day, right? So that number is going up. Actually depends a little bit how you think about distance. The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. So the fraction of stuff in the universe we can see is actually shrinking, right? And eventually a lot of stuff is going to fall outside of our horizon.

So the number of particles in the observable universe is actually decreasing. Whoa. The universe is outgrowing how far we can see. Yeah, exactly. The universe is expanding faster than our horizon is. So particles are disappearing from the observable universe. That's another reason why the number is not fixed. Well, it may not even be fixed, right?

Like maybe the universe is infinite, in which case there's maybe an infinite number of neutrinos. Yeah, exactly. In that case, you could still measure the density of neutrinos like 330 million per cubic meter, but the total number in the whole universe would be infinite. if the universe is infinite and if the universe beyond a horizon is similar to the bits that we see here could be that what's beyond the horizon is very different right and that we live in a weird patch of the universe right right it depends and we don't know is what you're saying but what do you think is the ratio of like in the universe the ratio between neutrinos and daniels

is it infinite to one or is there a fixed number That's a question philosophers have been wondering about for thousands of years, and we're not going to answer it today on the podcast. That's right. We don't have the time. That's why we're not answering. That's right. Exactly. No, I think if there are other Daniels out there, there's still not me because I'm not experiencing them.

Even if they think that they're Daniel, I'm experiencing this one, which makes this one different, which makes me unique. I'm only experiencing one Daniel. Unless they're having the exact same experience you are, in which case, so much of the outside. can't tell the difference. But we can from inside, right? Inside the Daniel horizon, you can tell which Daniel you are. But your feeling of uniqueness is the same feeling of unique as the other Daniels have. Yeah, that's right.

But I'm only feeling my feeling of uniqueness. I'm not feeling bears. Oh, I see. So to you, there's only one Daniel. Yeah. But maybe to someone outside of the universe, there is an infinite number of Daniels. Yeah. It all depends and we don't know.

And to me is all that matters because I'm the only consciousness I'm actually aware of in the universe. but I'm not asking what matters to you I'm wondering what matters to me Daniel I don't know if you're even real that's right we're all in some AI's imagination all right well I think that answers a question

for Sam the estimate of number of neutrinos in the observable universe is 10 to the 88 neutrinos plus or minus 10 to the what 87 87 plus or minus infinity probably does that plus or minus infinity all right well let's get to our last question

of the episode which is about gravitational waves and can you surf one so let's get into that but first let's take another quick break a foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it they had no idea who it was most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases,

but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen.

And I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance, bro, tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition.

This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge.

It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it.

And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I had this like overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then. And I just hit call, said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation, and I just wanted to call on and let her know.

There's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff podcast, Season 2, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat army veteran, and he actually took his own life to suicide. One tribe saved my life twice.

There's a lot of love that flows through this place, and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast,

Grasias Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years.

Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending

with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing Vibras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me.

But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasasas has come again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, our last question. How'd you know about gravitational waves?

Howdy, Daniel, and Jorge. I was wondering how it would feel to be hit by a gravitational wave. We have detected infinitely weak wave from Earth, but imagine if we were close to two black holes revolving around each other and eventually colliding and merging, how would it feel to get hit by a gravitational wave and would it be the same as a wave? And finally, would your organs be damaged? Interesting question. It sounds like Clay is planning a trip, perhaps.

I think Clay wants to experience the universe, wants to feel gravitational waves. It's not just read about it online. Well, I think one of the things is that, first of all, we're all experiencing gravitational waves right now, right? Yeah, that's true. Gravitational waves are everywhere. They fill the universe because they're generated anytime any mass is accelerated. So you're in orbit, you're generating gravitational waves.

You get out of bed, you're generating gravitational waves. Gravitational waves are everywhere. Right. We're experiencing them. We're generating them. Like if a car accelerates in front of me, I'm technically going to feel or I'm going to experience the gravitational wave generated by that car, right? It's very hard to feel these things because they're very, very gentle.

Remember that gravity is like the dominant force and the structure of the universe, but it's also the weakest force, if you even call it a force, so much weaker than the forces that hold your body together, for example. Right. They're super mellow, hard to detect, but we can detect some of the ones that come from deep in outer space that come from black holes or heavy things circling each other and then colliding. Exactly. The way to detect gravitational waves is to look for extremely loud sources of them, things that make very dramatic gravitational waves. And so two black holes, which are two

enormous masses, orbiting each other very, very quickly just before they collide, are very loud sources of gravitational waves. So even though we're very far from them, we can be like a billion light years away, we can still detect. those gravitational waves here on Earth with super sensitive detectors. Right, here on Earth, by the time that they get to us, they're super weak, because I guess like a ripple in a lake, gravitational waves get weaker as they expand, right, from their source. Yeah, as you get further from the source, they get weaker and weaker. Right. And as he said, the ones we're detecting now with LIGO,

which is the big physics instrument we have here on Earth, those happen billions of light years away. And I think the Kalea's question is, like, what if you were closer to that? source of gravitational waves, like what if you were right next to those two black holes colliding, what would it feel like to have this giant gravitational wave past three? Yeah, it's a really cool question. To think about it, I think we should like zoom in on what happens first to like individual particles in your body and then think about what that would feel like. So instead of... Wait, wait, wait, what's the scenario is? How close am I to these

gravitational waves? So imagine we're just like a few tens of thousands of kilometers away from these two black holes that are orbiting each other. Aren't black holes usually bigger than a few tens of thousands of kilometers? Or are you imagining like two small ones? Well, the kind of collisions we've seen are between black holes that have like 30 to 50 solar masses and those have an event horizon radius of like 100 kilometers or less.

So if you're 30,000 kilometers away, you're definitely not inside the event horizon. Okay, so these are pretty small black holes. Yeah, but these are the kind of black holes we've been able to see collide. Oh, all right. So then we're a few tens of thousands of kilometers away from these two black holes smashing into each other. Exactly. And on a human, if you're like 30, 50,000 kilometers away from two black holes that have like the mass of 30 or 50 times the sun, then you're going to feel what's called a strain of about one millimeter.

The strain is how much your body is getting squeezed by the gravitational wave. And this is what we measure also here on Earth with LIGO. We have these interferometers, these very long laser legs that get squeezed and lengthened as the gravitational wave passes by. The ones here on Earth are so faint that they measure strains of like one times 10 to the negative 21, which means that like the two mile leg of the interferometer gets shorter by that factor. It's a really, really tiny factor. And that's how much like space is being stretched or compressed, right? Like not necessarily something in space, right?

because it's something in space is sort of holding on to itself, but you're talking about the stretching of space itself. Yeah, the changing of the distance between two particles, for example. So imagine you have two particles and you're a few tens of thousands of kilometers away from these black holes that are emerging, and they're generating gravitational waves. What's going to happen is they're going to change the distance between the two atoms, right? So for example, if the distance gets longer than those two atoms, if they were like bound together somehow, then they're going to feel,

attractive force to pull them back to where they were in equilibrium. If the gravitational wave is very slow, they're going to be able to basically stay in equilibrium and nothing really happens. But if the gravitational frequency is high, if the sort of squeezing and pulling and pushing is fast, they'll effectively feel a force and they might start to oscillate back and forth. That's kind of what happens in LIGO. So like the stretching of space is kind of like how much space wants to stretch you. Yeah, the distance between those two particles or the two mirrors in LIGO gets longer or shorter based on the gravitational wave.

But then the interaction between the two particles or the structural strength of the thing, whatever, has a natural length that it wants to be at. So to try to return to that natural length. Like if you imagine a spring between these two particles, you pull them apart. Well, the spring is going to pull them back together. Right. So then you're saying like if I'm a few tens of thousands of kilometers from these black holes and I would feel about a one millimeter. stretch in my body. Or space would want to stretch my body about one millimeter. And based on the frequency, you're going to get shaken by one millimeter. It's not like you

just get pulled by one millimeter in one direction and then you stay there. A gravitational wave is a wave. It's oscillating. And depending on the frequency, if it's like a fast wave or a slow wave, it's going to shake you at that speed. So it might like pull you in one direction and then squeeze you in that direction and pull you in the other direction. So there's this pulling, the stretching and the squeezing. So right now we're talking about the amplitude of about one millimeter, but the frequency of that is also important. And that depends on the orbits of these black holes.

How many times are they passing around each other that determines the frequency of this gravitational wave? If you're nearby these black holes, you're basically going to get shaken from the inside. Right. And you're saying kind of depending on the frequency, it might be dangerous or not. Like if it was shaking really slowly,

your body can probably adjust to that shaking. But if it's shaking super fast, then it might scramble your insides. You might scramble your insides. You might also experience it in a weird way. Like, it might be like being at a concert. Sound waves at a concert also shake your body and you experience them as sound. If you're out in space near two black holes, you might literally hear the gravitational waves because, like, the drums in your ear will get shaken.

Whoa. As with everything else in your body. As would everything else. Just like at a concert, right? When you're in the mosh pit at that concert, your toes are getting shaken, even though your ears are the only ones actually transmitting sound to your brain.

The same way a gravitational wave can be squeezing and pulling on your whole body, but your ears might be the only ones picking it up. I've never been in a mosh pit, but I'll take your word for it. So you might feel it, but is it dangerous? Like if it's high frequency enough, and these things are pretty high frequency.

By the time they smash together, it's like super high frequency, right? Yeah, they can get to be very high frequency. And actually, the frequency they experience is even higher than we observe because there's gravitational time dilation. These black holes, of course, have super high curvature. And now one black hole is near another one. It's experiencing the gravitational time dilation of that black hole. So time is super slowed down.

So what we're observing is the slowed down gravitational wave being emitted by these event horizons. that's already taken into account. If it wasn't, then the frequency would be much, much higher. Well, I guess from what we know of these smashing black holes or the ones we've seen, then the frequency we've seen and how fast they actually are closer to the source, would they actually kill you at this distance? Like at some point they'll start to rip apart the bonds between the proteins in your body, right? Or, you know, it'll basically scramble your brain.

I don't think I can say it depends a lot. on the internal biological friction. Like how much energy is actually going to get absorbed and how squishy your body is, how resilient it is. It depends a lot on the exact kind of tissue. I think all I can do is treat your body as a sphere with ears and say you'll probably hear it happening. But you can probably make that calculation right.

Like you can calculate this spaghittification point of a black hole, right? Like the point at which it would actually tear you apart falling into a black hole. You can probably do that for gravitational wave, right? Yeah, but the energy that gets absorbed depends on this internal friction. Like, if there's no internal friction to your object, it can get squeezed and squished and then be totally unharmed. So how much energy is deposited, how much damage is done, depends entirely on the internal friction of that object. It's not just dependent on the tidal forces. Right, right.

But I imagine, I mean, we don't have to do it now or there's no pressure for you to come up with an answer. but like if you could make the calculation for like a typical brain what are some of the maximum accelerations a brain can withstand before it turns into you know mush and you can maybe backtrack to find what kind of frequency of gravitation waves would kill you yeah probably somebody who knows something about the brain could figure that out mm-hmm what do we know about brains we just use them I'm going to guess the answer is it depends and we don't know exactly you read my brain that's exactly what I was thinking

exactly i just got a gravitational wave idea into my brain but again i feel like this is just from standing tens of thousands of kilometers away you say maybe we might survive this i don't know because don't these things go pretty high frequency even a one millimeter strain might be enough to smear your brain one millimeter strain is pretty big so i think it might be enough i mean i think one millimeter strain is much more than you ever experience at a concert even very very high intensity sound waves don't actually like move the molecules in your body

by a millimeter. That's a pretty huge displacement. And you've got lots of really sensitive things inside your body that are much smaller than one millimeter. So one millimeter squeezing and stretching could totally destroy like really sensitive little biomachineries. So it'd be like being a

smosh pit, not a mosh pit. Like your brain would get smoshed. Yeah, I think it might be like being in a blender. Great. Then I imagine if you get closer to these circling black holes and it just gets more dangerous, right?

Because then the waves could get much more intense. Exactly. The amplitude of the waves just grows as you get closer. The strain gets larger and larger. What if you're just a thousand kilometers away? How big would the strain be? Well, it goes like one over R, which is a little bit weird. And so...

A thousand millimeters? 30 times closer, it'd be 30 times. If you're like 30 or 50 times closer. If you're 10 times closer, it's going to be 10 times as strong. Times 10 to the 3, no? I mean, a cube. Because your R went down a tenth. So then doesn't the intensity go up by a cube?

The strain goes like 1 over R. Oh, linear? You sure? Inverse linear, yeah. Oh, it's linear. All right. So then you would experience it at one centimeter string. Yeah, 10 times closer, you get one centimeter strain.

Yeah, that would be a lot. That would definitely be a lot. Cly's asking, how would it feel to get hit by a gravitational wave? Would your organs be damaged? It depends a lot on the distance. You get close enough, it could definitely scramble you. You get not too close, then you could probably hear it, like physically hear it, without being destroyed. But I don't know exactly when that line is, and I don't recommend you figure it out.

That's right. Keep it a thought experiment. Keep it a brain experiment to save your brain. All right. Well, I think that answers all of our questions. Some pretty interesting ideas here. Overall, the picture is that the universe is still mysterious. There's a lot we don't know.

And there's still a lot of questions we can ask about it for us to explore. But we love the you ask these questions, and we love trying our best to answer them. We don't always know the answer. That's sort of the game of physics, figuring out where the edge of knowledge is and trying to push it forward a tiny little bit. At least that's one of the games, one Daniel can play. What can figure out? if we have even more Daniels.

All right, well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See you next time. For more science and curiosity, come find us on social media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Insta, and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

For more podcast from IHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day, and we're like, we're like, we're like, we're right? People ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store,

plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening. That's an interesting sound. It's like your mental health.

If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it. It can be as simple as talking to someone or just taking a deep, calming breath to ground yourself. Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for you at loveyourmind today.org. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspired. sharing pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers.

I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweetie. Monica Patton. Elaine Welteroth. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.