Danny Jones Podcast - #110 - Former LSD Kingpin Shares His Secrets | Seth Ferranti

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

Seth Ferranti spent twenty one years in federal prison after being convicted as an LSD kingpin. He had initially faked his suicide to evade law enforcement and was on the US Marshall's 15 Most Wanted list before his eventual arrest.  Being a first time, non-violent drug offender, the severity of his sentence garnished national attention and was covered extensively by The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, and many other publications.  Ferranti received a bachelor's and master's degree in journalism while he was incarcerated and once he was released, Seth continued his career in journalism and made a transition into film, writing and producing White Boy, a documentary about legendary Detroit-based drug dealer White Boy Rick.   help us make more money: https://bit.ly/koncretepatreon  sponsors  https://liquiddeath.com -  Use code KONCRETE at checkout to get a free koozie 2-pack with a 12-pack purchase.   danny  https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny  https://twitter.com/jonesdanny Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, world. Today my guest is Seth Ferranti. Seth spent 21 years in federal prison after being convicted as an LSD kingpin. He initially faked his suicide to evade law enforcement and he ended up on the U.S. Marshall's top 15 most wanted list before he was eventually arrested. Being a first time nonviolent drug offender, the severity of his sentence garnished national attention and was covered extensively by the Washington Post, the Rolling Stone, Vice, and many other big publications. Hope that intro, what's your whistle, folks. Without further ado, please welcome Seth Ferranti. All right, boom, Seth Ferranti. Welcome to the show. So the short synopsis of your story is you were a teenage LSD kingpin, right? Yeah, I mean, basically more or less. So you could probably tell it better than I do.

So people who aren't familiar with you, why don't you just give me a quick background? I mean, basically, like around 13, I started getting in. to drugs. I started getting the counterculture, you know, mostly psychedelics and weed. And, um, you know, like most people when you start using you, you know, you look for, you know, especially when you're young, like you're, you're looking for a way to pay for it. So, you know, I was the type of person, you know, all my friends wanted weed, all my friends wanted LSD. So, you know, I was kind of the bold, adventurous one. So I would find the connects. I would find the people to go to. And I would go and buy it, you know, and at first just get free drugs. You know,

But eventually after doing that for a couple years, you know, by the time I'm 15 or 16, I was like, you know, maybe I can make money, you know, doing this. So, you know, I got better contacts. I started following the Grateful Dead, you know, like the late 80s. What year was this? Oh, late 80s. Yeah, late 80s. You know, like around 87, 88, you know, when I was 16, 17 years old, like, you know, about a junior in high school, started following the Grateful Dead, got an LSD connect, got some weed connects. actually down here at Fort Myers, I got a weed connect out of Fort Myers.

I got a weed connect in Dallas. I got a weed connect in Kentucky. Plus, I was getting stuff out of California, like Northern California, Emerald Triangle, through some homeboys in San Francisco. And, yeah, first it was just high school. You know, I went to a big high school, 4,000 people. You know, we had like a sister high school, like 4,000 people. So I was kind of doing hand-to-hand, you know, retail sales.

But then as all those kids, this is in Northern Virginia, as all those kids went off to college, you know, they went to college and they would call me, they'd be like, hey, can you bring stuff up? And then instead of just one, you know, friend, it was like they had 25 friends. You know, so then it just like, you know, about my 89, you know, just my network just started expanding.

You know, and really I only had, I only had like a nine-month run where I would say, like I was a real big drug dealer. You know, not even big in the big scheme of things. You know, I mean, I wasn't like, Pablo Escobar. But, you know, for a teenager, I mean, I was 19. I was probably making like 25, 30 grand a month, and we're talking like 1989.

Yeah, that's big money. You know, so, you know, and not like I was getting a lot, but I was getting like 10,000 hits of ass in a month, you know, 100 sheets. And I would probably go through, I don't know, like 100 pounds. This brickweed, though, back then it's brickweed. So, I mean, it's totally different game than now. But I would get like 100 pounds of brickweed, you know, might last me two or three months. In the fall, you could get good weed, like from northern California.

California, like what they would call what they would call outdoor now, you know, but back then, like, we called it kind bud, because compared to the brickweed, it was like kind. So I would get that at Kentucky, Southern Kentucky, and Northern California. But you could only get that in the fall because, you know, it was like little small farmers. They'd grow like 25, 30 pounds. So by December, all that stuff would be gone. So was weed the best drug to make money off of? Could you make the most profit off of weed? Or why did you choose weed? Okay, listen, if you aren't already gambling and betting on sports, you need to be. Because I've been cashing in big for the last two months after I signed up with my bookie.ag. I fucking love MyBooky AG. I was using MyBooky way before they reached out to sponsor the show. And this month only, our listeners and subscribers are going to get matched on their first deposit up to $500 when they sign up with My Bookie by using the promo code Concrete.

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They are the leading betting site globally. That's why we use it. And I've been making so much goddamn money. I'm going to start investing in some more real estate. If you want to bet and win big this NFL season, it's got to be with my bookie.ag. Sign up today with a promo code concrete K-O-N-C-R-E, and you're going to get matched up to $500 on your first deposit. So do it now. Back to the show. You know, I always tell people, I never consider myself a criminal. You know, I considered myself an outlaw because I broke laws that I thought were wrong. So, I mean, I sold weed. Because, I mean, to me, weed and psychedelics are the righteous drugs. You know, so I never fuck with, like, cocaine, heroin.

Even, like, I never did drugs like that. I was never interested, you know, cocaine, heroin, meth, you know, because those, you know, people are always Jones and it's like a bad drug, you know, addicts, people steal stuff. So I was never into that. You know, I was into what I consider the righteous drugs and, um. Just because you, so you were mainly into trafficking weed because that's what the drug that you were into personally. Yeah. And, and, and also, because, I mean, I, I, like, believed in it. I didn't think it should be illegal.

Mm-hmm. You know, I was like, I was like, why? It's a fucking plant, man. It fucking grows. You know what I'm saying? It's been around, yeah, it's been around forever. So it's cocaine, though, right? Not in the form that you buy, Dan.

I mean, cocaine's kind of processed. Before you pour the gasoline on it and all that. Yeah. Yeah, but definitely weed, I mean, I would make a lot of money back then. I mean, I could make like $1,000 a pound, basically. You know, I would get brick pot out of, like, Dallas, Texas. I would get it for like three, 400 a pound, and I could take it up to the East Coast,

and I could sell it for, like, you know, 13, 14, 1500 a pound, you know, easy. You know, back then I'd say ounces were probably going like, you'd pay maybe 50, 60 a quarter, and an ounce of that brick pot would go for like 150, 160. Wow. And how old were you and you eventually got busted? I was 20, 20 when I got busted.

You were only 20 years old when you got busted. And how long did you do in prison? I did 25 years. Well, I got census 25 years. I did 21 years. Fuck. Yeah. So I went in.

You know, I went in in 1993 and I got out in 2015. But, you know, I was a fugitive for two years, too. So, you know, I caught my case summer in 1991, got indicted. And I didn't like what I was looking at. You know, they were talking about, you know, go to trial. You're facing 20 to life. You know, and that was like kind of the beginning of the war on drugs, 1991. And I was actually in the first wave of kind of the psychedelics and weed guys, you know,

because when they made those laws in 1988, it was. all for the, you know, the African-American guys in the inner city. Right, right, right. So they were cracking all those dudes in the head, giving them like 20, 30 years for like five grams. Yeah, five grams of crack. That's why they made those laws. But then when they got some criticism, after they'd been doing that for about three years,

they started getting criticized. And especially, I'm in Northern Virginia, so we're right outside of D.C. So that's, you know, it's kind of like, you know, all the politics and stuff. So I almost felt like when my case happened, it was like, you know, they were like, look, we bust white drug dealers too. I was in that first wave of, like, weed and psychedelic dudes, you know, when they came out to the suburbs, you know, and they just started, they just started hammering us. But, yeah, they were trying, like, I was looking at 20 to life, you know, they wanted, like, back in the feds, too, because if you know anything about the feds, the feds, the feds got, like, a 99% conviction rate, right? So, most people in the feds, like, plead guilty, but even, you know, more people in the feds, like, cooperate.

Most people cooperate, right? That's the only way to get your sentence down, basically. You know, so they were pressing me to cooperate, but, you know, I was like looking at the situation. You know, I didn't want to put somebody else in a fucked up situation like I was in. I didn't want to do 20 to life. And I had a little bit of money. You know, I didn't have a lot of money, but I had a little bit of money.

You know, I mean, I was, you know, like I said, I was making, you know, sometimes 20, 25, 30,000 a month. So I had a little bit of money put away. So, you know, I basically, I took off. I was like, man, fuck these guys. You know what I'm saying? And I took off and I was a fugitive for two years. So I didn't get caught in sentence until 1993.

Wow. So you were on the run for two years, you said? Yeah. What was it like when you first found out that you were in trouble or you had the feds on your, or that you were on the fed's radar? Oh, I mean, it was a shock. I mean, because, I mean, basically I was, I was a, you know, I grew up in the suburbs, man. So I was basically a white middle class kid, you know, military brats.

So I just didn't think, you know, I didn't think that I could face that type of time, especially for what I was doing, you know, considering I was nonviolent. And like I already said, I didn't fuck with like what I considered the bad drugs, you know. I wasn't a violent person, you know, so I was like really surprised. I was like, how the fuck could I be facing 20 years for like weed and LSD? And really not, not even a lot, you know, in the big scheme of things. Right. I mean, there's dudes bringing like tons of marijuana.

into this country. Right. You know what I mean? And like I knew the LSD scene and the Grateful Dead. I mean, the chemists, I mean, they make like hundreds of grams of LSD. Like each Grateful Dead show, they would fly 25 grams of LSD into each show, you know, and I was getting like, I was getting like one, you know, one gram, you know, basically a month. One gram is like 100 sheets.

It's like 10,000 hits. Wow. So I was getting like a gram a month. You know, in each Grateful Dead show, they were flying in 25 grams. So I was like, you know, yeah, in high school, you know, in, you know, a freshman, a sophomore in college, yeah, I was a big drug dealer, you know, because, you know, I had the money. I had the drug. Yeah. You were the guy?

Yeah, I mean, we're all kids. Yeah. But, you know, the big scheme of things. So, yeah, I was fucked up, man when that shit happened. I was like, I couldn't believe it. You know, it was kind of like, I mean, it was really a big shock to me. And it was also, even more to me, it was like a betrayal to me, you know, because I grew up. up you know i was american you know i was like man this is my country you know i believe all the

bullshit land of the free home of the brave you know capitalism you can do anything you wanted and then like they're going to come and hammer me and i'm like damn i'm like fucking you know not i didn't go to war or nothing you know so free anymore is it yeah i mean i didn't like i went to war and fought for the country you know but whatever if they called me i would have you know just you know that was my time you know they didn't have that then so whatever you know but i was like a red-blooded American dude and they did you know I felt I was like damn my own fucking country is doing this shit to me. Just hammering you.

Yeah for some fucking weed and LSD for some shit that should be legal. So that's really that's really how I felt. That's like what was really my motivation. You know what I can say now you know whatever 30 years later. I mean I feel justified in my actions but you know maybe I was a man ahead of my time or whatever but I mean that was like my whole thing. You know yeah I'm not saying I don't I like make money. I mean, everybody likes money.

Who doesn't like money? You know what I'm saying? Money makes life easy. So I like money. You know, I like being the rock star. You know, I like getting that recognition, you know, being the man when I came. And I liked all that. You know, but I had like an underlying, my underlying thing was this shit should be legal.

I mean, all my friends smoked weed. You know, not all my friends did LSD, but a lot did LSD. I was like, you know, you party, man. You fucking do shit. That's what you do, especially, you know, whatever. You want to say, white America, whatever America, college America. I mean, that's what people do. You know, and I saw myself as, like, a facilitator of that whole scene.

Now, the whole thing started was when there was, like, watching the little vice clip, there was, like, some kid who was running through the woods naked on LSD, and he grabbed the cops gun and shot him in the arm or something. Yeah. That was, like, the cataclysm of everything, right? Yeah, so there was this, you know, they got this area in Fairfax County called Clifton, and it's like all like big million dollar houses and you know this is like back then it was a million dollar houses so we're talking you know like 89 90 and they're all like on five or six acres

and uh you know sometimes like every time like any any place in the suburbs you know when people's parents go out of town people throw parties you know so they used but they used to throw some big parties out there because they had a lot of land you know sometimes they would like bring they would bring like stages out for bands they would like skateboard ramps they would like literally move skateboard ramps in you know and have skate shows and all types of stuff so they were having this big party out there and um you know eventually like all parties you know the cops get called you know so the cops got called and there was this one kid i never met the kid i don't know who he is but uh you know 15 year old kid i mean his name was all in my paperwork

i can't remember though but uh like a little 15 year old kid he was tripping on acid he was like Like, basically the cops came and, like, he freaked out, and he was running through the woods naked. And, you know, this cop chased him down, you know, tackled him or whatever, grabbed them. And I guess, whatever, the kid freaked out. Grab the cop's gun. And, you know, he shot him. But it was, like, basically, like, he shot him in the arm, man. So, I mean, you know, I mean, it could have been, I'm not downplaying anything.

I mean, he could have been more serious. I mean, he shot him. But, I mean, he shot him in the arm, you know, so basically, like, flesh wound or whatever. whatever. But that, like you said, that was a catalyst for my case because that was like LSD. That was like LSD that came from, you know, a batch that I brought into the area. And that kid told him your name. Well, he didn't know my name, but, you know, he told him who he got it from. And, you know, this is how the feds do. The feds. It's like dominoes.

Yeah. You know, so let's say something that happens to you. They're like, who do you get it from? Oh, I got it from him. You know, and he got it from. him and it's just it's like dominoes you know that's how the feds do because they go and threaten you know especially you know back then they they go and threaten you know middle class kids tell them they're going to go to jail for tenor life and and they do they play it up they say like oh yeah you're going to end up in the cell with fucking big bubba what do you think's going to

fucking happen yeah they really sell it to you yeah man you know and and like I say I'm not saying whatever you know you break the law you get caught you got to do time but you know the more the older I've gotten I look at how the system is, you know, the war on drugs, all that. I mean, everybody can say now that the war on drugs was wrong pretty much. But it's more than the war on drugs, man. You've got to look at the way law enforcement operates. You've got to look at the way, you know, that they try to manipulate people and the

things they say. I mean, really, if you think about it, dude, that shit is like fucking evil, man. Yeah. Those are some, you know, some of those dudes are just doing their jobs and, you know, they're probably decent dudes and they probably let motherfuckers off for some little bullshit or some weed or whatever. But the whole concept of that whole war on drugs and law enforcement. and forcing people to inform, you know, on their friends, you know, become an outcast or whatever.

I mean, I'm not even going to say take it to like, you know, it's not like we were the mafia. So it's not like anybody was, you know, fearing for their lives because they snitched. But I'm saying just that's like, you know, traumatic to put somebody, you know, like, what do you think most people do? Oh, you're going to go to jail tent to life. And Big Bubba's going to be your soulmate. Right. You know, and you're fucking like an 18-year-old fucking white kid. And, you know, you just want to fucking go to college and party.

Right. Yeah. You know, at the time when all that shit happened, probably my first five years in prison, you know, I was pretty angry, you know, and I'd be like, oh, fuck these snitches, rat-ass motherfuckers. You know, whatever. You got to be hard, play the convict role and shit.

You're in prison, you know, got to put the mask on and all that shit. But, you know, now I look at it, you know, as a year went by and I got older, I just look at it more like, I mean, it's a system. It's a system that's fucked up. I mean, you know, you still might have some purer say, oh well somebody shouldn't told somebody not the system is what is fucked up to make people have to make

those choices what was the story leading up to your final arrest to when you actually went to prison like explain the story how you're on the when you're on the run and you had to you did some research and you figured out how to create a bunch of fake identities and then you tried to eventually fake your death yeah well you know that the fake identity started basically, you know, getting fake ID to go to bars, you know, because I was all the East Coast colleges. So I had a bunch of buddies at West Virginia University, right, in Morgantown. And it was like you could just go up there and, you know, you need a fake ID for the bars on Main Street. So you would just go down in somebody's room and they would like have all the photography stuff, everything set up, you know, where they could process it.

You know, the computer stuff and print it out. and that's when I first started getting fake IDs, you know? So I had a bunch of, like, I was 17, 18, 19. I got a whole bunch of fake IDs just to go to the bars at the colleges. You know what I mean? It's like some bullshit, you know, it's not going to stand up, but, you know, at night, you know, going in with the bouncers. That shit is good enough.

Yeah, it's good enough. So that was kind of like my first experience with fake IDs. So then when I caught the case, you know, and I started deciding, like, you know, I was going to take off. I already had some fake IDs, but I was like, man, they're not going to, you know, stand the test of time. You know, like in the daylight with a cop.

Right. You know, I'm like, this shit ain't going to work. So you got, like, holograms and shit built into them. But were they, was it like that back then? Yeah, yeah. They, they have like the little holograms, but it would be like, I mean, it would just be like pressed or something. Right.

So it would try to emulate a hologram, but it would be like pressed on the plastic or whatever. So, I mean, it really, you know, wasn't that good. But, uh, so I started. I was like, man, I got to find a real ID. And I'd actually read this book, the book that they made into a movie. You know, they made the movie Catch Me If You Can, like whatever, like 2000 or something, early 2000. But the dude wrote the book, like in the mid-80s. You know, he wrote that book.

So I'd actually read that book. And I'd read other stuff like that. And I was kind of interested in stuff like that. You know, for, I wouldn't say from like a criminal pursuit, but more like from a scotage. or academic pursuit. You know, I've always been a big reader, so I was interested in basically, like, how people would, like,

and I don't even want to say fraud, but just how, like, how people would get over. You know, not, like, in a fraudulent way, like you're ripping people off from money. Just how people would, like, get over on authority. You know, that's always kind of been my thing. And I found these companies, man. They had these companies.

Paladin Press, Loon Panics Unlimited. And it was, like, subversed. of books, like probably one of the most famous books that a lot of people have heard of that these companies sold was the anarchist cookbook, which in the mid-90s, you know, exploded, you know, when the internet, you know, came around and the anarchist cookbook came out and basically taught everybody how to make meth. So that's probably the most famous. But these companies, all they sold was like these subversive, you know, underground books, how to do, you know, and it's all protected by the First Amendment right. So I'm not even sure if these companies, like after the Patriot Act, I think they, you know, put these companies out of business. So I'm not even sure if they still exist. But they had like, you could get their catalogs and they had like this whole section on like getting fake ID.

Right. But not even fake ID, like real ID. So what I did is I ordered like all these books, man. I ordered like 25 books. It was like there was this one author like it was like called Reborn in America, Trent Sand. They had this whole series called the Paper Trip. It was like the Paper Trip 1, 2, 3, 4. You know, they had like books like understanding U.S. identifying documents, you know, just like a litany of books, man.

I mean, they had like a whole, there was probably 40 or 50 of these books. So I ordered like 25. And I just, I read them all, man. I read them like from cover to cover. And that's the type of dude I am too. Like when I want to do something, I like to read, I like to research. and I like to read and I like to get as much knowledge as I can about it. But then I like to make my own plan.

You know what I'm saying, based off the information, you know, that I attained. You know, because sometimes you would read one of these books and there might be like one page or like one chapter that I actually learned something, you know, because a lot of it was just like rehash. You know, a lot of these books rehash. But there might be one insight that the author gives you, you know, that you can take and it's very valuable. So, yeah, I did that, and I basically learned to, you know, what they call paper trip. And that was like, I would get real ID from the Department of Motor Vehicles, you know, licenses, you know, like what they call the Walker's, Walker licenses, you know, like not a driver's license, just a Walker's license. And I would basically, I would do this.

What I learn from these books is you want to find a candidate. that died before he was five. You know, so find someone that passed away for whatever, whatever reasons, you know, died before they were five. And you wanted to find somebody that was born in one state and died in another state. Because, you know, back then, even though they, even back then they probably had the technology, but, you know, they didn't have the money to cross-reference all these records. So let's say, like, if you're born in Tampa Bay and you die in Tampa Bay, it's like the same department. Right. Same place. They can find all your info.

They call it. It's like the vital health records or, you know, department of vital statistics or whatever. So they, they match your records up and they'll stamp deceased on the birth certificate. But if you die in one, if you die in one state and you're born in another state, especially different states, I mean, you know, I mean, they don't even do it on a state level. Probably like even in Florida. They don't even do it. You know, it's different counties. But definitely they don't do it across state lines.

So once I found this out, I would scour the obituaries. Right? So I would go through obituaries. And I would look. This was my candidate. You know, I would look for a candidate, somebody that was under five. And the reason I would pick somebody under five, because typically, you know, especially back then, you know, in like the 70s, like I was born in 1971. So I was looking somebody, you know, that was born like anywhere from 68 to 76.

I had about an eight-year window. But especially back then, before you were five, you didn't get a social security number, you know. I mean, I don't know nowadays, they may give it to you younger, you know what I'm saying. But back then, you know, they didn't get you a social security number, sometimes not until you were like a teenager. You know, you started working. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so things were different back then, you know.

So you would want a kid under five because then they don't have any other, you know, records of vital statistics. So it's just basically the birth certificate. So I would look through the obituaries. And in the obituaries, I'm looking for this candidate. And then from the obituary, you basically, you know, get a lot of information that you need to order the birth certificate. Right. From the obituary, I would get, like, to order somebody's death certificate. You need to know their name, place to death, date of death.

Right? So I could find somebody there. I get those three things. I order the death certificate. Then with the obituary and the death certificate, I can get the five things that I need for the birth certificate. To get the birth certificate, you need like a full name, place of birth, date of birth, father's full name, mother's maiden name.

Right? And like I say, these are just the vital, you know, statistic bureaus or whatever. So, I mean, basically you write a letter, you know, you do it through a mail drop, you know, like a PO box that looks like a real address, you know, and you send them a money order, you know, like, eight or ten dollars. And you say, like, basically, like, you know, I'm the person's father, I'm the person's, you know, and it just has to be a relative, you know, until you write. And then once you've got the obituary, you find the candidate, you get the death certificate to get all the information you need for the birth certificate. Once you get the birth certificate,

you're pretty much home free. Because look, I can get that birth certificate. And you know, now this is like, whatever, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like 20. So, and a lot of times it, maybe the older you get, it's harder to do. And it's probably harder to do now because they got identity theft and all that. Back then, they didn't even have identity theft. They didn't have identity theft until like around the mid-90s or something. You know, so it wasn't even.

Back then, you could legally have an ID in someone else's name as long as you weren't using it for fraudulent purposes. Wow. I mean, but, you know, that's like America. You know, that's what America used to be. Yeah. Stuff like that. You know, it's changed a lot. but so once I got the birth certificate I was home free because then I could go in to any DMV right and the only

a lot of times if you just get the walkers license not the driver's license it's all you need is a birth certificate and like an address you know like you know address that says you live here you know like an electric bill or something like that you know in that name right and to get the driver's license you just need to verify social security number and so what I used to do to verify a social security number I had this book it was called Understanding U.S. identifying documents and in the understanding U.S. identifying documents each state has like a the for your first three numbers and your Social Security number are by state. So each state has like you know from you know whatever 039 to 042 so that determines a state. Then the two

middle numbers go by the year but it's not like if you were born in 71, the middle two numbers are going to be 71. It's like if you were born in 71 in that state, the numbers might be two, three. But it's all done by a chart. It's all like corresponding. They have these charts in the book, you know, because that's what the Social Security administration people use. And then the last four numbers are random.

So what I would do is, you know, depending on where the person was born, I would fucking determine what the number is. I would look at the charts, you know, in the years and everything. And then I would determine that. And then, like, I would get. get a W-2 form, right? And I would put that Social Security number and that person's name, you know, whose identity I was going to assume.

And I'd make it seem like I worked at like some local place, you know, restaurant or whatever. And I'd write their address and I'd do a W-2 form just like, you know, they give you a W-2 form. And you can get W-2 forms from like any, like, business wholesale supply company. You can go buy like a box of like those government, those government printed, you know. Like, I mean, I don't know what it is now, but back then, you know, because everything's probably electronic now. But back then it's like, you know, these multi, you know, like so it makes like five copies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you could just type it right on.

I have type right. I would type that shit on. And then I would go in, I'd have the birth certificate. I would have the W2 to verify my social security. Even though the social security was fake, under scrutiny, the social security number would not stand up because it was fake. But a lot of times when you just go to the driver's license, you know, that Social Security more like if you went to a bank or you try to open a bank account, because I did that a couple times. I try to open a bank account under these assumed names. And the Social Security number never stood up because they would tell me straight up.

They'd be like, are you sure that you're right Social Security number? And I'd be like, oh, I think I need to get the fuck out of here. Yeah. We have a guy on here who used to do the same thing for bank fraud, and he would go and he would get, he would convince homeless guys who'd pay that. them for all of their information, for their social security number, for all of that stuff. Give him like 20 bucks. He'd spend like 100 bucks and get five socials. Oh, yeah.

Oh, he's probably killing it. Oh, yeah, he was killing it. Yeah. I know, I know now a lot of people, they get those federal tax numbers. You know, like the federal, it's just like a social security number except for a business. It's like a tax ID. The EIN number. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So, like, like, dudes will buy it. Like, you can like get like, 10. of those. I mean, I don't know where they get them from, but they get, like, 10 of them if they're good, like they just use those, like, social security numbers just for, like, all types of different fraud.

Really? Yeah. You know, ex-cons. X-cons are in the... They're not hard to look up. You can, like, SunBiz is the Florida, like, business directory. You can just type in any name. You can find a list of businesses and you can look at it,

find all their EIN numbers. Most ex-cons. Most ex-cons are, they basically do, like... I mean, I'm not saying, no, I'm not trying to put a bad name on X-cons, but X-cons that are still doing... criminal stuff. They basically do like weed stuff and, um, like fraud, you know, because it's, it's like, you know, the least, you know, once you get in there and you learn like what they punish,

you know. Yeah. It has a biggest risk or the biggest reward with the least risk. Mm. Yeah, but, um. So how many of these fake IDs did you create? I mean, I probably had like 25. 25.

Yeah, one time, man. Wow. Yeah. I had four passports. In different names. You know, my adventure. plan was to get like a quarter million

cash and fuck off because I was a military brat so look I lived in Germany for two years when I was a little bit closer I lived in Germany for two years when I was a kid I lived in England for three years so I was familiar with Europe

you know what I'm saying so like I was going to you know but I don't know a lot of stuff with dealing drugs and I guess with anything in life like you just get used to the the lifestyle you know and then it's just you're just trying to maintain the lifestyle you know so i guess i guess that could be said for any any walk of life or whatever but uh yeah i never got that

quarter of a million and i never got to europe yeah clearly right so what what did happen what happened you know you had all these IDs you were basically you knew the feds were on to you didn't didn't you didn't you have like your phone tapped didn't you and your friends have like your phones tapped you knew they were like following you, right? And they were like pinpointing where you were at and tracking what you were doing. Yeah, well, not at first. I mean, you know, for two years,

so I'm a fugitive for two years. So look, like the first six months, like I'm paranoid. Like I think like the fed's got that power, you know, because when you go through a situation like that, especially as a young kid and basically, you know, all your friends tell on you, and you're just like, you think the feds are like omnipotent,

right? But in reality, right, they're not omnipotent. All their information, They're getting from the people that you know. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So at first, you know, I'm saying, I mean, they can't tap people's phones and all that. But that with me, that came like, that was like maybe like a, like when the U.S.

marshals were like hot on my trail, like right at the end. You know, they were kind of tracking my movements through like a 1-800 beeper, you know, but that was like right at the end. But, you know, so for the first six months, I would say I was pretty paranoid because I thought they had all these powers. And plus I was fucked up. You know, I always tell people it's like, you know, there's this Jimmy Hendrick song, you know, that it's like called Castles Made of Sand.

And it's like, you know, castles made of the sand slip in the sea eventually. And that was kind of like my story, you know, because, you know, I made myself into this, like, you know, want to be rock star or whatever. But it was all based, you know, on my ability to move weed and LSD, you know. when that foundation was like ripped out from under me by the feds. I mean, I was fucked up. I didn't know who I was, you know, so, you know, it's all this shit. And then, you know, I take off.

I'm a fugitive. I can't even be my real name. So that first six months, you know, a lot of paranoia, a lot of like, you know, you're just like question. Like, you know, who the fuck I am I? What am I doing? You know, is this the right thing? But, you know, at the same time, the fucking alternative, you know, snitch on your fucking friends are due 20 to life.

I mean, you know, you're just like, fuck. But, you know, after six months, it took me about six months. I'd say I started getting my mojo back in. First, I once out to L.A., I was in Hollywood. You know, I had a little bit of money. I spent it, though, really quick. Like, when six months I spent all the money I had. So I ended up back in Dallas, Texas with my weed connect this dude, you know,

Mexican Eddie, who had a trucking line, was bringing weed over from Mattomorris up to Dallas. And I started selling weed. you know like Texas and Dallas. But, I mean, down there was like back then, like ounces were going for like 60. So it was like you really couldn't make a lot of money. So I was kind of selling weed to like this, there was this restaurant that was called Harrigan's. And I was kind of selling weed to like the restaurant crowd. You know, I lived with this dude.

He was a cook. He was actually from Missouri. So one weekend he was like, hey, dude, I'm going to go home. You know, and fucking go party. He was like, you want to come? And I'm like, shit. And I'm like, you know people that can sell weed? Can you sell some weed?

And he's like, fuck yeah. So I go to my dude Mexican Eddie. You know, I grab like fucking 20 pounds on. And I'm like, fucking we drive up in this dude's truck. And fucking, uh, I didn't even sell all the weed, man. I probably only sold like 14 pounds. I probably bought six pounds back to Texas. But I made connections.

And then that was kind of how I made my money in the first place. I would like buy something somewhere at a low cost and I would bring it somewhere else and sell it for a higher cost. I mean, that's a basic premise of, you know, drug smuggling. So once I found this out, I was like, fuck it. I was back on, you know, where I could, I had a margin. I could make like $1,000 a pound taking that shit up to St. Louis. So I started doing that.

Kind of got my fucking mojo back, you know, and basically I had like another little run, you know, like another little run. You know, it probably took me like six to nine months to build up my clientele where I was making good money, and then I had about probably another eight, nine months run before the feds got me. And how that happened, I was actually the same dude, the cook. We'll just call him the cook. And he was selling weed for me up there, and he was still working as a cook.

And he was actually working at TGI Fridays, right by the St. Louis airport. And so we were actually going out to party in this street, this place that's called called St. Charles. It's like Main Street, like down on the river, but he needed to go make a drop with one of his guys, you know, at TGI Friday. So we go to make the drop, but, you know, the, the kitchen is so busy, you know, it's like on a Friday night, his dude can't get off the line, so he doesn't make the drop, you know, and it's not even a lot of weed. It's like half pound. So, you know, but I don't know this, you know, he, you know, I thought he made the drop, so whatever, you know, my bad, you know, or whatever, but he didn't tell me. So then we go,

when I make a drop, you know, I drop like two pounds with this guy. And, you know, we're waiting in the back of a Burger King parking lot. And, you know, we're about to go out and party and I'm just waiting for money. And I don't think my dude has any weed and he doesn't say nothing. So, you know, we're sitting in the back of Burger King parking lot. And we're just fucking smoking joints like fucking crazy. You know what I'm saying? And this is another fucking, you know, turn of bad luck.

So it just so happens. Like we were in the Burger King first, we were eating But you know when people do drug deals, they take forever So you know I give this dude two pounds He goes down to the trailer park It's taking him fucking forever to bring the fucking money So we eat in the Burger King We go out, we're smoking fucking joints

And just so happened This Burger King had got robbed Like a week before And they had gone in the back So they see us out in the fucking back In a truck And they fucking call the cops on us And you know the cops roll up

And they fucking make smell the weed You know so boom They're like fucking on us And, you know, I'm thinking we're cool, like whatever. I got a couple joints on me. You know what the fuck they're going to do? You know what I'm saying? But a dude had a half pound in a guitar case.

And they found that. So they rested us both, brought us in, printed us. And still, I'm good because it's not my car. I'm under fake ID. And it's his weed. So, I mean, he got to take it, whatever. I mean, it's my weed. But, you know, really, I front it to him.

It's his weed. It's his responsibility. So, you know, he does the right thing. He tells him it's my weed. He tells them I don't know anything about it, but they printed me. Right? And when I was a fugitive, I had watched all those shows, like America's Most Wanted, you know, like all the fucking, all the fucking shows. You know, because I was interested.

Did you become more interested in it once you were on the run? Oh, of course. I was studying. I was like, how do they find people? You know, like, how long does it take? You know, so from watching these shows, I'd seen, like, serial kids. killers. It took them like 90 days to match up their prints. Like fucking serial killers,

right? So I was like, who the fuck am I? I'm like a little fucking weed fucking LSD dealer, nonviolent, you know, fucking from the suburbs. I'm like, who the fuck kids to fuck about me? But I had no idea. I had no idea. I was top 15 U.S. Marshals list.

Oh, shit. Yeah, top 15 fugitive, dude. Like for whatever fucking reason, right? So they match out my fucking prince in like three days and they got the fucking, because they release me, you know, because dude, he's like, it's my charge, it's my car, it's my weed. So they released me, but they

ran my prince, you know, because that's what they do. When they rest people, they just run your prince just to see. They mash up my prince, and they're like, oh, you're not fucking this dude, you're fucking Seth Ferranti. So fucking the fucking fugitive task forces, like fucking on my tail. And this dude, it's like his real name.

And, like, you know, he has family in St. Louis. You know what I'm saying? So they're like all on his grandparents and his fucking mom and shit. and he's all like fucking freaking out and then he starts fucking cooperating and uh that was when it was like the little thing like the seven days where they were like tracking my movements because they were trying to see because you know i i had some weeds so i was selling weed and the dude the cook who got busted knew i had weed and i was trying to you know i knew i got arrested but i had no idea they're going to match my prints and the fugitive task force is looking

for me but still i'm still like i need to get the fuck out of dodge because they're going to match my prints up in like fucking 16 to 90 days and they're going to find out who I am. So I'm trying to fucking move this weed and then I'm going to fucking take the money and I'm going to go fucking, you know, just basically go somewhere where nobody knows me and hide out. But you know, I didn't have the opportunity because they were fucking on me. Is that when you tried to fake your death? Oh, no.

Yeah, I skipped that part. So we can go back to that. That was when I left. So when I left in 91, right? That was like I told you I was doing everything. with the books. I was coming up with a fake ID plan, right? And then this was like my grand plan, right?

After getting the fake IDs, because I knew if I was gone, like after seven years, like if I just disappeared, like after seven years, like you could be declared legally dead in this country. Okay. Like if you just disappear without a trace and nobody finds a body or nothing, like in seven years, you can be declared legally dead. So that was like my grand plan because I was like,

how the fuck can Seth Ferranti just go away and these charges just go away and I can just be okay you know and just live as somebody else and I was like you know after seven years my parents would have to declare me legally dead so what I did is I got the fake ID and I was ready to go and I have a little bit of money but you know then I wanted to throw something extra into it you know I wanted to fake my suicide because that was like my plan then boom I fake my suicide my body washes out to the Atlantic Ocean. They never find my body. Seven years, I'm declared legally dead.

No, Seth Ferranti, no federal case. You know, so I'm good. I can just live my life as whoever. You know, but, um, so I made this whole big plan. There's this place in northern Virginia. It's called, uh, Great Falls. It's like a national park.

And it's like, it's like a lot of cliffs and it's like rapids. And, um, it's, it's kind of famous, like, among kayakers because they got like what they call class five rapids. and like all the superstar kayakers like to go kayak there because class five is like you know like you don't want to unless you're like superstar kayaker you don't want to kayak there it's like a like a black diamond of skiing yeah basically or even like double black diamond yeah but uh yeah so it's basically like if you

fall in the water there there's so many rocks in the in the river so uh you know move so much it's so rapid that you know you're gonna you're done yeah knocked unconscious drowned yeah so from being in that area in northern virginian going to high school there i used to remember uh you know i was always a big sports guy so i remember you know back then it was newspapers you know it was the internet so every day i would like rip over the washington post and i would go to the sports section before the sports section is the metro section so sometimes you know i might catch the headline on the metro section and i remember people always committing suicide there at great falls because they would jump in the water

and get smashed against rocks and drowned so it was like it was like a you know it was like a popular spot for suicides. Interesting. Die in nature peacefully. So I remember this, right? So then when all this comes about, I'm like, boom,

Great Falls. Fake my suicide. Disappear. Seven years. Declared legally dead. No case. So that's my whole plan, right? So I make this whole plan.

You know, I do a suicide note. I park my car there. I stage a little, you know, I make a little setting on the side of the cliffs, you know, like with, you know, with like my clothes, my wallet, I put like a vodka bottle. You know, I like even leave money in my wallet, you know, like a pack of cigarettes, you know, some weed. Like I was sitting there, you know, contemplating suicide. I even, leading up to this for like two weeks, I was even like dropping hints to people, you know, people that I knew are people that I was around like, oh, man, I don't know if I can take this, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

and so I staged my suicide, you know, and I actually, I was on the, on the cliff, like, it's in an area where you're not supposed to be. You know, it's not necessarily roped off, but it's just like, you know, off the path. And I waited until some people came by, like some joggers. I went up there and I'm like, my friend jumped. And then I just rolled out, you know, and I had somebody waiting for me, and I went in the car. You know, they took me to the airport and I flew to California. You know, but I found out years later those people, because when I was in prison, I got all the Freedom Information Acts, and those people actually did, like, a report with a park ranger.

Like, they were the people who reported it, you know, that I went in. Yeah, but, you know, when that first happened, I was out in L.A. in Hollywood, and I'm reading the papers every day, right? Because I want to see, like, I'm declared dead. Right? So first, it comes out, and it says, like, you know, Fairfax, LSD, Kingpin, commit suicide. And I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm like, my plan's gonna work. And dude, I'm like 20, so, you know, I'm like fucking, you know, like I'm saying, I mean, I was a smart kid for 20, but still I'm like 20, so I'm like incredibly naive in a lot of things,

you know, but, you know, you know, think near that age and you're like, man, like something you planned, you know, monumental and it's fucking going down, right? But so then I kept reading the fucking things, right? And then, like, two weeks later, dude, I was just like fucked up, like just fucking like heartbroken because I read the headline. It said, fucking, it said the U.S. Attorney's Office, you know, calls the Fairfax LSD Kingpin's suicide of hoax. And I was like, what?

So I fucking start reading it, right? And I read the fucking article, dude. And it's like crazy because I'm like literally driving down, like back and then they had newsstands. You know, so like you go to the newsstands to get like the newspapers from different areas. You know what I'm saying? Like in the big cities. So I'm like literally going down there. I'm like running to the newsstand.

It's like a big magazine newsstand. I'm like ripping off the paper and I'm like reading them. I'm just sitting on like you know Hollywood Main Street Russell and bustle reading this shit and fucking just like you know I mean on the outside I probably look cool but like on the inside you know my fucking heart is just crust because they said it's a hoax because what I did

I planned everything brilliantly right but I committed I staged my suicide on the wrong side of the fucking damn right so my body didn't wash out to sea right they dragged the river for two weeks

right by the right by stopped by the dam. Yeah, and they didn't find a body. So when they didn't find a body, they told the prosecutors there's no body, the park rangers. And so they said it's a hoax. So, you know, I mean, I thought I was smart, but, you know, in retrospect, I was probably a little dumbass. Whoa.

Were you in touch with any of the people in your life after that? Do you let them know, like, hey, this is not real. I'm still alive. Like, what about your parents? Like anybody? Only my mom, the dude that drove me to the airport was actually my God brother, somebody who I knew my whole life. you know, basically, like, you know, grew up with him.

And so he told my mom, you know, that I didn't commit suicide. But everybody else, you know, for at least that first two weeks. Yeah, that one lady they were interviewing, she said when she found out that you'd committed suicide or saw the article or something, she was instantly like, no way, wait a second, this guy could never kill himself. He's too much of a sociopath. Yeah, that's my girl, that's my girl, Marcy. She knew me pretty well, though, but, uh, yeah, but, um, yeah, so that was, like, the whole suicide thing. And then, um, like, the reason I even became top 15, it's, it's, it's, it's, like, fucked up too, because there was this dude named Henry Hudson.

For my case, he was the assistant U.S. attorney, like, during my case. So, I mean, I don't know. I wasn't privy to what was going on inside the U.S. attorney's office, but, you know, in retrospect, and kind of looking at everything and how it happened, this dude could have been, like, like the driving factor in my case. Like I said, I can't say that, you know, unequivocally or whatever, but, you know, I'm just like, you know, making assumptions on everything that happened. So this dude could have been like Henry Hudson.

He could have been like the driving factor in my case for whatever reason. You know, he wanted to bust some white LSD marijuana guys, you know, for whatever reason. I don't know. Maybe he never got high. Maybe he had a bad trip. I don't know. Maybe they wouldn't give me any acid at college. I don't know.

Who knows? but then as soon as I disappear this dude transfers to the U.S. Marshal's office in Northern Virginia and he becomes the head of the U.S. Marshal's office so he makes like this, you know, lateral transfer like within, you know, government, you know, within law enforcement for the federal government. So he does all the paperwork to make me top 15 U.S. Marshals

because, dude, I was a first time nonviolent offender, dude, I mean, are you serious? Like a first time nonviolent? Even when I got caught, like some of the marshals, they're like, how are you top 15? Like, they're looking at me. They're like, and they basically told me, like, straight up. They were like, who did you piss off?

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because that's how fucking shit works. How do you think it happened? Who do you think you pissed off? I pissed that fucking dude, Harry Hudson. Yeah, that's who I fucking pissed off. He was, like, you know, from everything I can see

that I pieced together, you know, over the years. he was a driving factor in my case he was the one that was pushing it when I took off it put like a black mark on his record he took offense at that he took it personal he went to the U.S. Marshal's office

made me a top 15 fugitive when I shouldn't have never been a top 15 fugitive there was no reason for me to be a top 15 fugitive except that I pissed this motherfucker off right then when I got caught he gets a feather in his hat And you're not going to believe where this dude is now.

He's a fucking 4th Circuit appeals court judge in Richmond, Virginia for the feds. All right. So look, if you look at everything in this country, like, if you look at our judicial system and prosecutors and, like, you know, how all that. Okay, you guys know Rudy Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani, right? He was the prosecutor from the Gotti case, the John Gotti case, in the 80s. So everything in this country in the in the judicial branch is based like on Making a big case you know you you advance by winning big cases you don't advance By doing the right thing you don't advance by advocating justice

You know you don't advance There's no incentive for doing the right thing there's the only incentive is money and moving up the ladder right? Yeah and and you do that by having these big media cases. So basically this dude, Henry Hudson, blew my case up into something it wasn't.

You know, not to say, whatever, I broke the law. You know, I should have been punished, but I should have got like fucking five years in the state. You know what I'm saying? So he blew me up into this big fucking drug kingpin, you know, took it one step further, blew me up into this top 15 fucking fugitive.

And then, you know, in his career, judicial law enforcement career, he capitalized off that shit. That's why like sometimes I just tell people like, okay, yeah, I was in prison. And I'm not saying there's some fucked up people in prison. There's people that belong in prison. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I'll be the first to say that. You know, violent people do belong in prison.

You know, but you've got a lot of people that don't belong in prison. But there's just so many cases, especially like when we look at the war on drugs in retrospect, where these people like this supposedly doing the right thing, they're the fucking most evil motherfuckers man yeah you know what I'm saying and this dude is a fucking 4th Circuit U.S. appeals court judge so this dude is like one step down from the Supreme Court man that's how powerful this motherfucker is you know like I say I talk shit about him on a lot of podcasts so he hasn't sent nobody after me yet but fuck him you know whatever send your fucking dude you know I'm just that type of dude you know I'm

like whatever I'm gonna say what I want if they want to come and kill me come and kill me. He needs to take some acid or some mushrooms or something. I'm saying. And really, my dream, my dream is to eventually have like a, you know, like a big scripted series or like a big Hollywood movie. And I want to fucking, like, portray like this evil motherfucker for the person he is. Like he'll be the main protagonist.

Yeah. And I just want to show, and I'm going to use his real name and everything, you know. I mean, I would, I don't know, maybe they'll want to change. just named the lawyers, who knows. But yeah, this dude should be exposed, man, because he's sitting up there like he's this fucking righteous, fucking law-abiding person, and he basically made his career off of fucking my blood, you know, not my literal blood, but, you know, my blood

and having to go to prison and all that, you know. And I'm not the only one. I'm not saying I'm the only one. I mean, but that's what he does. You know, these people, that's what they do in law enforcement and the judiciary in this country. they step on other people make them out worse to be they are

and you know if anybody any other country does it they criticize it but they do the same thing to us and they prop themselves up on our backs right you know so I mean to me you know that's just my own personal thing but I think those dudes are fucking evil as fuck the DEA evil as fuck you know what I'm saying

the CIA they're good people right fuck no so like I say I don't really want to talk about the CIA because they just might come kill me. What was it like when you finally got caught for the last time?

Like what, describe the scenario. Do you get like your doors kicked in? Like what, how did that go down? Yeah, I was actually, I was in this econelage in St. Louis right by the airport. And I was actually

waiting, man. I had like, I had like 20 pounds of pot. And I had this dude Columbia you know like one of my distributors I mean his name was Dave I won't say his last name but his name was Dave so I'm waiting for Dave to come down and get this 20 pounds because then as soon as he brings me the money he's up in Columbia you know that's where Missouri University of Missouri is at so he

sold for me up there he was a big volume dealer for me and um he like I told him I'm like dude I got this fucking 20 pounds you know this was after I you know I got registered I knew They were matching up my prints. I knew I need to get the fuck out of here. I knew the clock was ticking. So I, you know, I was like, dude, I'm going to give you all this shit for like $500 less a pound than I normally charge you just. I need all cash.

So he's like, okay, let me talk to everybody. I'm going to get it together. So he's actually getting together. He's actually supposed to come down like that morning, like around 10 or 11, you know, and bring me the cash and then I'm going to like fuck off, right? But, you know, I didn't know everything that's going on behind the scenes. You know, the marshals are track. in me and I was top 15 U.S. Marshals list and all this.

So I have no idea. I know this stuff is happening behind the scenes. So six o'clock in the morning, I'm in this fucking Ocano Lodge. And I'm already, you know, I'm like, I know the clock is ticking. I know I need to get the fuck out of here. You know, I can, like, feel it. You know what I'm saying? Because when you're in situations like that, like you can feel that shit, dude.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just like, you know, it's like the walls fucking closing in on you, man. Like, you feel that shit, you know? even though I didn't know like I didn't wasn't cognizant of everything that was happening but you know like your body your mind you can sense that shit so uh yeah they fucking bust in do the the the federal marshals man they bust in like probably like six o'clock in the morning you know what I'm saying they fucking it's just fuck it's like fucking three of them it's not even no local law enforcement like they're just fucking basically scouting me out themselves like you know a lot of things people don't know about these law enforcement guys but like these dudes are is much cowboys as a lot of the drug dealers. You know, a lot of people don't realize that, but I mean, these motherfuckers are cowboys. Like, they're fucking, they're basically scoping me out. They don't have no local law enforcement.

They don't have no backup. You know, it's just, it's like three of them. You know, they fucking come in, you know, they're going to do whatever they want to grab you. Yeah, so they fucking come in. They fucking get me. They find the weed. You know, I have a little bit of money. And, you know, actually, you know, to answer your question, I mean, it was in a lot of ways,

it was a relief? Because, you know, I was, I mean, I was constantly, dude, I had all these different IDs and it's like you've got to like school yourself, man. It's like, okay, boom, like I take out this fucking ID today. And I got to, I would have a process in my mind. I'd be like, okay, well, I'm fucking Jacob Birchfield today. And I'd be like, okay, Jacob Fertzschild, board on this date, you know, this social security number, live at this address.

Because, you know, if somebody ever pulls you over or you get addressed by a cop, you have to know that shit. Like, it's you. Yeah, right. So I would do that. And so every day I'm fucking, you know, I might do it for like a week. You know, I'd be this guy for this week. You know, and that shit wears on you, man.

And then it also wears on you. I mean, I'm meeting people all the time, you know. I'm meeting people, you know, friends. You know, some people I like, some people I don't like, you know, especially, you know, meeting girls. And, I mean, you can't be yourself, man. You've got to have like this backstory and none of it is true. And then, you know, you've got to constantly like,

remember like what you told him or what you told him or you know how these backstories connect or how they disconnect you know because you don't want to fucking you know just as a basic premise you don't want fucking people think like oh he's full of shit he's a liar you know what i'm saying nobody would want to be considered that so uh you know just trying to coordinate like all this stuff in my fucking mind i mean that's a lot of fucking that's intense shit you know what i'm saying and plus you know i mean i'm not gonna lie too i was fucking probably smoking weed like crazy you know drinking like crazy to handle, you know, whatever stress or whatever. But, you know, it's all like mental stress

that I put on myself because of my situation. So, yeah, when I got caught, you know, like, I told them, like, you know, I didn't try to lie and say, you know, they're like, you're Seth. I'm like, yeah, I'm Seth, cool, whatever, you got me. You know what I'm saying? So it was, it was kind of like a relief. But, you know, at the same time to show you, like,

you know, I know I keep hammering this about the evidences of these motherfuckers, but like you know they're looking through all my shit they find the weed they find the guns are not guns i didn't have any guns so they find the weed they find the money they find all the IDs and then like they're asking me they're like you got guns you got guns you know because any if you're if you're involved with the feds like any you get a gun for any criminal act in the feds a gun is like five extra years so like these motherfuckers they don't give a fuck they just want to give you time you know what i'm saying that's like their job is to get catch you and give you time you know

the more time the better. So they're like, no guns, no guns. I'm like, no, I don't have no fucking guns. You know, I'm like, I never had a gun. I don't deal with people where I need a gun. I'm not that type of fucking criminal, you know. So like the one marshal dude, like he takes his fucking gun out and like he throws it in my bag. And then he's like, oh, he's like, what's this?

He's like, you got a fucking gun. You know what I'm saying? I mean, obviously he didn't put that gun on me. You know, he picked it back up. But I'm saying that's just like shows you like the mentality like like like like like what. What do you mean you threw it in your bag just like joke with you or what? Yeah, yeah. Just to fuck with you.

Yeah, it's a fuck with me dude. But they didn't charge you with it. No, but I'm saying, but I'm saying like what type of person would do some shit like that? Like you think that shit is funny. Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I know what I'm looking at dude.

I'm looking at fucking 20 to life. That's why I fled. You know what I'm saying? It's a fucking height of the war on drugs. The laws are fucked. up. You know, I know what the fuck I'm looking at. And you're going to fucking try to play me like that.

And you're like a law enforcement. You know, you're supposed to be the good guy. Good guys don't do shit like that. You know what I'm saying? And especially like, look, I'm not resisting arrest. I'm telling you who I am. You know, I'm not fucking trying to go out like fucking Billy the kid or no shit like that or Bonnie the Clyde, Bonnie and Clyde, whatever.

If you're a criminal and you're trying to go out like Bonnie and the Clyde, whatever, law enforcement do what you got to do that's your job but i'm saying in these other situations man you know what i'm saying you know to do shit like that it just shows like their whole that whole culture man is inherently fucking evil when it comes to the war on drugs and like i think like our whole judicial system right now look they created a couple things that is the reason why our law enforcement is how it is today

right first they did this thing called qualified immunity We're basically like a cop or a law enforcement or a federal agent. They can do whatever they want to do under the guise of their job and get away with it. Right. Isn't that the law that says that they can't get sued for their... Yeah, that's what qualified immunity means. So as long as they do it under the color or the auspicious of their job, they can do whatever. They can fucking just come and clock you in the fucking face.

beat the fuck out of you Right isn't that all changing now though I mean I think there's more there's more discussions There's some states where I think some of these laws are changing And let's because it's being challenged It needs to I think it's more like it's been challenged It's been talked about

I don't know how much it's been changed Yeah stuff is slowly changing for the better But I'm saying This is one of the worst things It has made us why basically we've become a police state right now Right The second thing Is a forfeiture dude

Right Like the forfeiture, like, dude, you can literally, and I'm not saying it happens to some white people, but it doesn't happen to white people as much, but people of color like African American or, you know, Spanish, you know, brown people, they bust and pull them over and find a joint. And they take their fucking car, dude. I mean, it happens all the fucking time, dude. I mean, probably more in the 90s than it does now. But, you know, I mean, dude, and look, think about this. And I know you guys have probably seen this even down here, right? Okay, so they got a big bus.

They get the fucking money. And I'm not saying, I mean, some cops are corrupt. They might put that money in their pocket. You know, but more times than not, they're not putting the money in their pocket. You know, sometimes they are. But, you know, more times than not, they're not. But all that money is going to their department. And then you see, like, the head of the department, the fucking sheriff is driving this big fucking

GMC fucking Yukon, fucking Denali all fucking loaded out like a $150,000 fucking car as his company car because they use the forfeiture forfeiture proceeds, the drug money to do that. So I'm saying if that's not corrupt, dude,

I mean that's fucking corrupt on its face. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because that dude is driving around that car. That's his car. Why does the sheriff have to drive around a fucking 100? And I'm sure you guys have seen it down here

Because this is kind of like some country boy shit I see it up in Missouri Like up in Missouri Like some of the police departments or the sheriffs They have like these big fucking Four Wheel Drive fucking police trucks dude Like outrageous Like some shit you would see on fucking monster truck

And they drive and they got all their flags And it says fucking St. Charles County Police Right And I know you see that shit down in Florida Because it's some country boy shit down here too Yeah Right Dude that is outrageous

Where do you think they get to money. The taxpayers didn't give that fucking money. So you're saying that the money that they can they seize in these drug operations, whether they rate a house or somewhere like that, they keep that to buy trucks? They keep it for their department to buy whatever they need.

So the department gets to keep that money? Yeah, they keep really? Yeah, whatever the seizing, whoever seizes it, you know? Like even if the feds are involved, that money goes back to the local agency. Hmm You know, the feds might take a percentage But you know, the feds don't need money

The feds fucking print money They got the money The feds print fucking money They don't fucking need no money So look So all right, so those two things So you got qualified immunity And you got forfeiture

And then the third thing So you got basically Law enforcement in this country They can do whatever they want To do and get away with it They fucking basically Go after fucking drug dealers just to get money.

You know what I'm saying? That's like they don't even care about what's right or wrong or the laws or what laws are being broken or who's getting fucked over. They're just going for the money. That's what it's turned into. They're just going for the money because of the forfeiture laws.

And the third thing that has turned our law enforcement into this country to this big bloated fucking entity that's fucking feeds on itself and is evil as fuck, right? The third thing is the fucking informants. Because look, these dudes are detectives.

Like, you've got detectives, like in law enforcement or agents or investigators. They don't investigate nothing, dude. All they do is threaten people with time and people tell them whatever they want here. They don't investigate. So they have no investigative skills. They're not fucking detectives. They can't figure fucking nothing out. The only type of bus they want is a bus.

they get some money for their department and they have no accountability because, you know, if they arrest you and you say, man, fuck you, pig, they can punch you in your fucking face and bust your fucking teeth out. Yeah. And say whatever, and they don't have no criminal case,

they don't have nothing. Nothing happens to them. A lot of times they don't even get suspended. You know what I'm saying? So that's why we're at the point where we are right now. You know, with law enforcement, And look, I'm going to break this down for you even further. All right.

See, look, we're all fucking white, right? So a lot of the cops are white. So, you know, sometimes, I mean, they could be an asshole to us, but sometimes they can look at us too and be like, oh, you know, he kind of looks like my cousin or my brother or my family member, right? So they might be a little bit more lax with us. You know what I'm saying?

But think like, but they still, I'm not saying, they beat the shit out of fucking white people. You know, if you get lippy with them, they'll beat the fuck out of you. They don't get a fuck. You know, they can't do nothing. about like the black and brown people dude like they don't give a fuck they treat those motherfuckers like subhuman and get away with it every fucking day well i mean you see it way more

nowadays because of the internet and social media and i'm sure they got i'm sure you know cops definitely got away with it way more in the 70s and the 80s and the early 90s but with like the way things are changing now the tables have kind of turned now if you're a cop and you're a piece of shit, it's easier for you to be exposed. Oh, true, true. And, you know, being, I mean, think of like, who, who would want to be a cop? Who would want to be a person who has to go into these places and have to be constantly worried about your own life, you know, pulling, I mean, just, just imagine, like, pulling over a car at night and ask them to roll down the window. I mean, the amount of cops that get shot,

I mean, you're worried about your own life. I mean, I can see that to a certain extent, but I think, I don't think it's, I mean, basically, man, people are people. Yeah. If you treat somebody like a person and give them respect, you know, because, dude, I've been around cops, prison guards, everything. You know, if they treat you all right, you know, you treat them all right. Whatever, you got to do your job. You know, I got to do my job, especially if you're criminal. But, I mean, I could say some of it, I mean, everything in life goes both ways.

But look, I'm going to throw something else at you. And this is what law enforcement does. All right. If you're a law enforcement and think, most people, when they do their job, they just want to do the easiest job possible, right? So if you're in law enforcement, right, who would you rather go bust?

Unless you're like some gung-ho fucking submarine cop. And they're all those type of dudes. There's those type of dudes. But, you know, they're like, you know, one out of a hundred. But who would you rather go bust? Would you rather go bust the fucking, meth fucking addicts or cocaine fucking cartel members with fucking machine guns and shit or would you go rather go bust the fucking kids smoking marijuana or the fucking marijuana

nonviolent marijuana dealer look you know what are the what are the most arrests for fucking drugs in our country every year dude and still now and it's legal in half the states marijuana is still the number what marijuana has been their biggest cash cow, dude. Look, at one time... Is marijuana still the number one... Yeah, dude, I'm telling you. The number one thing people who are arrested for in the U.S.? Yeah, they don't want to let it go, man. They don't want to let it go. I mean, it is

changing. But we're in this process now. Like, it might take another five to ten years, dude. I mean, people are still catching cases for fucking weed, dude. It's fucking crazy, dude. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I mean, they're not getting the same severe punishments. Yeah. You know, but it's still fucking insane. And especially, you know,

if you're fucking black or brown. It's the system, right? It's what they're incentivized to do. It starts at the top. It doesn't start at the bottom. I mean, when you build a system that's based, that incentivizes people to, you know, meet a quota, you know, to make more money and to raise more money for your department

and to get a promotion. That's like my whole point. My whole point, like everything I brought up and like it all stems from my case because I see this all, and whatever, I see this all from a color view because I see it all from the point of my case and what happened to me. But as all that has happened to me, I've seen a lot of other stuff. I mean, that's been my whole point.

It's evil, man. It's inherently evil, like the whole system, the way it's made. I'm saying there's a lot of people, individual people, they're just doing their job. You know, I don't blame the individuals. You know, I mean, if you're a bad apple, you're a bad apple. I mean, the truth is going to come out in the wash. You know, but the way the whole system, you know,

from the war on drugs down and law enforcement is fucking inherently evil. And I know a lot of people in law enforcement. Dude, like for my work, do my documentary work. I've interviewed fucking retired DEA. I've interviewed retired FBI, you know, ATF. Like I say, I don't got no beef with these dudes. Whatever, they did their job, you know, whatever. They thought they were doing the right thing, you know.

I can't blame them whatever circumstance they were in in life. Right? But sometimes, like, even I talk to these dudes and like, especially these DEA dudes. And I'm just like, like, they cannot admit that the war on drugs was wrong. Really? No, a lot of them. I mean, some of them have comment on said, but a lot of them, you know, the rank and file,

you know, because, I mean, whatever, if you spend 20, 30 years of your life doing something, dude, you're not just going to be like, you know, it takes big balls to be like, oh, yeah, it was fucked up. You know, so a lot of them, and like I say, it goes, to me, this whole thing, it goes back to like, like, all America. Like, dude, I'm still America. I love my country. I'm not going to go, you know, they put me in prison for 21 fucking years, you know,

Like, I'm like, you know, to me, it's like the matrix, right? Like, I got out. I'm like, plug me back into the matrix. You know what I'm saying? I mean, prison fucking sucks, dude. That shit's like the nether world of corruption and violence. What kind of prison were you in? I was in like, uh, I did 12 years in medium highs and I did nine years in lows.

Okay. So, you know, basically in the feds, the medium highs, they call them gladiator schools. You know, a lot of fights. You know, in the penitentiaries. The penitentiaries, that's like the highs. That's where they say, like, boys. State penitentiaries? Well, it's a federal.

Penitentiary. Oh, federal penitentiaries. But what they say in the federal penitentiaries, like they say boys fight, men kill. You know, like, you don't fight. Like, if you got a beef, like, you go stab the motherfuckers 60 times. You know what I'm saying? So that's how that means, like, boys fight, men kill. I was in what they call the gladiator schools, the medium highs where, like, you know, basically you got to fight.

Like, if you don't fight, you know, then whatever, you know, you can be fucking starting out somebody taking your commissary and end up getting. raped, you know what I'm saying? I mean, that's just how it is, you know? And then I did my last nine years in the lows. And the lows, I mean, it's pretty tame, you know what I'm saying? I mean, shit happens. A lot of white collar criminals in there?

White collar crime is more like in the camps. That's like the minimum. I could never go to the camps. I was always behind a fence because I was a top 15 fugitive, you know, so I could never go out to the camp. You know, I would never get minimum security. But, you know, the lows you got, like, the people that fuck up at the camps. so it's a lot of minimum security dudes you know that fucked up and you got a lot of you even got dudes that started the penitentiaries but they're you know they did 20 years there at the end of their bid they don't want no problem and then you got a lot of dudes you know that are just short timers you know they're coming in they got like two three four five years yeah a lot of informants you know there's a lot of informants like nobody everybody's like oh no I didn't snitch he's a snitch I'm not a snitch it's like crazy it's like crazy it's like crazy it's like crazy it's like crazy it's like crazy it's like crazy

crazy dude it's like you know because nobody wants to wear that in there you know nobody's going to wear that shit right you know i i found out like all the time that i did it basically came down to it like usually the person that was going trying to say who was the snitches like usually you have to like look at them right because like why like they're deflecting right it's like why are you pointing out you know some of some of the dudes like that they're just crazy and hate snitches you know but you know a lot of times you know, I mean, but that's maybe like one out of ten, you know, like the other nine times out of ten, it's usually somebody deflecting. Yeah, that's a, it's a, it's a crazy subject that always gets brought up when you go to prison

or you get caught with, you know, with a big crime is like the first thing you think of is, you know, you get offered a plea deal. Are you going to snitch? Are you not going to snitch? And that's like the number one question people ask you when you're, when you're locked up. Like, they ask you about your crime. They try to like poke and prod little questions. figure out more about your story.

Is he a snitch? Is he not a snitch? When I came in, you got to show paperwork. So when I came in in in 93, I went to FCI in Manchester. It's a medium high in Kentucky. Right, I got 25 fucking years. And this is like 93. So when I came in, you know, a lot of the people are still under the old laws from the 80s.

So I come in with 25 and I'm like this little kid, I look like a college kid, right? I'm like fucking, you know, 22 years old, man. I weigh maybe like 185. you know what I'm saying and fucking clean cut everything looked like just being college and the dudes are like all the cons you know they're looking at me

they're like like who the fuck did you kill how did you get 25 years you know because still they you know they just started those laws like in 89 so you know a lot of dudes aren't used to people you know like for for for my crime what I did like in the 80s it might have been like you know maybe 10 years maximum

and it was paroleable you know but then after 89 when they made the news laws, you know, mandatory minimums, the sentencing guidelines, you had to do 85% of your time. So there was like no parole. So, you know, like on 25, I had to do basically, you know, almost 23. The only reason I got in 21 is because I took this drug program for 10 months, a 500-hour therapeutic drug program, and I got a year off my sentence, you know, right at the end. But, yeah, dude, when you, when I went in back then, it's like, they called a paperwork party. Like, you go in,

like wherever you're from like your homeboys come to you like the other white people you know it's all it's everything's ethic and race and they're race based you know you don't got like black dudes coming to you asking to see your paperwork you know your own people

white people come to you they want you got to show your paperwork you got to show that you're not a snitch you got to show that you're not a chomo you know child molester and you got to show that you're not a rapist because if you're any of those fucking thing it's like your own people your own homeboys

They're going to check you in, dude. They're either going to beat the fuck out of you and leave you there. Or they're going to tell you're going to be like, look, you need to roll up, dude, you got to check in the hole. You ain't walking on this compound. You know, and that's how shit goes. You know what I'm saying? So what, what would happen if you're like, yeah, I was a snitch. I fucking rat it out.

This guy, this guy, this guy. I cut all their throats. And I saved 25 years of my life. Now what? They're going to fucking beat the fuck out of you right there. They're going to check you in, dude. They're going to roll you up. Really?

You're going to walk on that compound? Fuck, no. You know, but look, I have seen, I've seen a few cases where there's been like some fucking tough snitch motherfuckers. But, you know, in the end, they always lose. There was, I was in Beckley, West Virginia, right? It was a medium high. Second joint I was at. And it was a pretty rough and tumble joint, man.

You know, it was like, like they were always hitting the doosies. Like, when I say they hit the doces, that's like, if there's a fight or disturbance, like, you know, the cop hits the. body alarm and like all the cops go running you know like the cavalry you know to to to quell the disturbance so that's what hit the deucey's mean so i mean they were hitting the duces like all the fucking time like you always see the cops run in so it's a fight here a fight here you know whatever sometimes multiple fights at the same time so um there's this one dude i don't know his name big dude country boy had like a cocaine case he was a west virginia country boy right so he's on the fucking compound.

Dudes know he's hot. Right? So fucking the, like some of the West Virginia dudes, you know, they say, oh, this motherfucker's hot. Like, they show the newspaper articles about him, whatever. What does that mean he's hot? Like, he's a snitch. He's hot. Oh. Yeah, he's hot. So they try to check him in.

He said, I ain't checking him. He beats the fuck out of him. The snitch beats the fuck out of the dude. So, like, they end up. They get beat up there in the hole. You know what I'm saying? They're in the hole. because they got the shit beat them. Because what happens like they're like, let's say, you're getting in a fight, and I beat the fuck out of you, and you're all marked up.

So the cost, when they see you're marked up, they're going to lock you up, basically for your protection. And if you don't say what happened, like you'll say some shit. Like if you're a stand-up car, you'll be like, oh, I slipped and fell in the shower or some shit. But they put you in the hole

because they're investigating, and they want to know what happened. You know, so this snitch, he beats these fucking dudes up, you know, who supposedly, like the shot callers for the West Virginia car, you know, who, whatever, they weren't that tough. They couldn't even check their own snitch out of the yard. So he beats them up, they go to the hole, but, you know, they don't say nothing, whatever. So this dude's, like, still on the yard.

So, you know, the authorities don't know what's going on, but, like, all the white boys know what's going on. Right? So then, like, some other white boys on the yard, like, they go to the rest of the West Virginia dudes, and they're like, what the fuck, man? They're, like, clean your fucking car, dude. this is your responsibility you need to get this motherfucker off the yard so then like some more

West Virginia dudes go or they can't do it or whatever so then like this like was going on dude for like fucking about three weeks you know and this dude was like fuck you like anybody came at him he beat the fuck out of him like he was a tough motherfucker but he was a snitch so eventually the fucking California dudes

usually like in prison for the white boys usually the California dudes are like the toughest dudes. It goes with the Spanish too, usually like the like they call them the serenios, the Mexican dudes like they're under the Mexican mafia. They're usually like the fucking most thorough and usually the California,

the Mexicans and the whites fucking ally. So the Mexicans are the toughest? Yeah, they're the most vicious. Why is that? Because if, like they got a saying in there like if you got a beef with one Mexican, then you got to fight all of them.

And it's not like that with any of the other races? It can be, but, you know, not a lot sometimes, you know, because sometimes it's like, you know, it's supposed to be everything is like unified, like, okay, we're white, we stand together. But a lot of times, you know, like, I'll have a beef. And you'll be like, man, fuck him. I don't fuck with him. Or fuck him, he's a piece of shit.

You know, or he's like a fucking junky shit. Or maybe he fucking owes me money for some heroin, so fuck him. You know, so it's like shit like that comes into play. So eventually with this fucking West Virginia fucking tough guy fucking snitch, the fucking California dudes fucking cornered him out on the fucking yard with weapons and fucking beat the fuck out of them. But it was like a three-week process. So this dude was basically on the yard for three weeks.

Wow. Basically, like you said, yeah, I'm a fucking snitch. Fuck you. Wasn't Whitey Bulger a snitch? Yeah, yeah. Whitey Bulger was a snitch. Yeah. He got killed.

He got killed. Didn't he get killed? Didn't they put a hit on him? Because he had some sort of government. He was a part of some conspiracy, right? So what Whitey Bulger's story was, he was in a protection. There's a joint down in Florida. It's like a known protection yard.

So he was down there for a long. It's a Coleman. Coleman. That's where Matt Cox went. All right. So they got two Coleman. They got a Coleman one and Coleman two. But one of those yards is a protection yard.

That's like any of the dudes, it's, it's, it's, it's a high it's a penitentiary so any of the dudes that um like can't walk mainline can't walk mainline that means like uh mainline is like the prison yard okay that's like the mainline like you're walking the mainline yeah you know like you're out on the yard you're in general population that's what mocking mainline means you're in general population so you know if you can't walk mainline because you know maybe you're snitch or you got beasts or people are trying to kill you or you know a gang has marked you for death then you're you can't walk mainline like the prison authorities won't let you right to protect you yeah so they won't let you

even if you say you want to you know they usually don't let you so this is what happened with witty bulger so whitey bulger's in coleman he's in it's a it's a it's a known protection yards he's in there he's walking mainline because it's a protection yard you know there's a bunch of dudes you know that can't go any other place because they'll probably get killed. And, um, but then he did something like, I don't know, something. He had something with some nurse or, you know, something that he pissed off the staff, pissed off the warning, you know, or he got, you know, whatever, sassy. You know, he was an old motherfucker anyhow.

So, you know, whatever. He pissed off the staff. I don't know who or what. It might have been from medical. So it went up. So they were like, and he was defiant about it. You know, he was like, I fuck you, whatever. I'm Whitey Bulger, fuck you.

And so they were like, okay, we got something for you, Mr. Whitey Bulger. We're going to transfer you to a fucking prison where motherfuckers want to kill you because you're a fucking rat. I mean, and none of this is said. It's all unspoken. You know, maybe the Bureau of Prison staff, like in their, you know, whatever meetings or something, they might say that shit. But, you know, I mean, they're never going to admit to that shit.

You know, so they transfer him. And then Whitey Bulger, being Whitey Bulger, you know, even though the, you know, because when you go to the yard, anytime you go to the yard, like they ask you, they're like, you know, they ask you if you want. They just put you on the yard. You know, you can go on PC if you want. Nobody has to go on any yard. If you request PC protective custody, they will put you.

That's your job to protect your life. And especially when you're dealing with these. penitentiaries because that's where you got the real fucking killers. And especially when you got somebody like Whitey Bulger, who's this high profile fucking dude, it's been in fucking movies where he's a fucking informant. Everybody fucking knows. No, but Whitey Bulger was the type of dude. He was like, his whole thing was like, I'm not an informant.

I paid for information. They worked for me. But you know, anytime with law enforcement or criminals, especially a criminal like Whitey Bulger that had such a long reign, anybody knows common sense of information is going back and forth. He's given the dude information about his enemies because it makes his life easier. And in the cop buses, you know, John Connolly was the FBI guy. So, so Whitey Bulger goes to this prison. It's actually, it's a West Virginia prison. I can't think of which one, but I think it was a West Virginia penitentiary. So he goes to this prison and, like they basically tell him, you know,

like, you know, you fear for your life or whatever. You got any beast? with anybody, you know, can you go on the yard? And he's like, you know, Whitey Boulders trying to pull, you know, he's old, but he's still like, I'm Whitey Bollger, I'm a tough guy. He's like, yeah, I can go in this fucking yard. And so the cops let him, you know, but I mean, they never should have let him. They knew better, but it was like, that's why they say that. The whole thing, it was like a vendetta by the BOP, like at some, you know, high, you know,

not like the normal cops, but like somewhere like at the regional office or the central office, they were like, man, fuck this dude. Let's let him get killed. Yeah. Let him fin for himself. That's the conspiracy. I mean, but you know, you can probably never prove it. I mean, they probably had investigations or whatever.

But so they put them out. But, you know, I mean, but whatever. I don't know. You think sometimes like these dudes, they're old. They're in bad health. You know, maybe they want to go out like that. I don't know. Maybe, you know, they want it in their life.

I mean, who knows what's going on in his mind, you know? Or maybe he really thought on Whitey Bulger, ain't nobody going to do nothing to me. You know, he's in a fucking wheelchair. I don't know. Maybe he was fucking crazy. Maybe he did too much LSD. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what a lot of people say. He did too much LSD. Yeah. So, I mean, he was in the M.K. Ultra program.

Right. You know, I used to write. And that was before he killed everybody, right? Yeah, when he did his first bid in Alcatraz. You know, I wrote, I used to write Whitey Bulger.

Did you really? I was trying to get him to do a book. Really? Yeah. When he was in Coleman. Did he ever respond to you? Did he fucking wrote me a bunch of letters? Really?

That's cool. Dude, his writing is like fucking chicken scratch. Like, it's like the type of letters, like, you can barely fucking read. Like, you got to, like, it's work to read his letters. Yeah. Yeah, but I wrote him. I actually, I did a couple articles where I used some of his words from his letters for this site called Ozzy. And I actually, I had a dude on my site, website, garrillaconvic.com.

he was in the West Virginia prison where Whitey Boulder got whacked and he wrote an article about it. Really? Yeah, it's on my website, GorillaConvick.com. What did you and Whitey Boulder talk about? Did you ask him about the LSD stuff? Yeah, he wrote some, you know, told me about that. But, I mean, basically, I was getting him. I was trying to say, like, dude, let me write your biography.

So he was telling me, like, little things. Like, he was telling me about that MK Ultra and he was trying to tell me, you know, he's not a snitch. And he was trying to tell me, you know, how the prisons fucked up or what they do to him. Like all his little petty grievances, he was, like, airing out to me. That was mostly what the letters consisted of. He'd give me some history, but mostly, you know, is how fucked up his case was, and they railroaded him. You know, because a lot of those dudes, they get in there, especially the older dudes, they get life, and they just get obsessed with these, like, they got, like, these three or four trigger things,

and they just can't let him go, you know, and they just eat them up. Really? And that's all they can talk about. I mean, I think that happens to people a lot in life anyhow. But in there, it's intensified. Like when you're doing a life sentence around a whole bunch of violent people, you know, in there, in there, it's like, I'm going to show you, like, what prison is like, like, you've got to put this mask on.

You've got to put this. Every day, like, you've got to wear this mask because it's about to keep yourself safe. You've got to keep people away. You've got to make people think like you're crazy or you're violent or you're negative. so it's like it's like almost like like you you make shit more than it is like you know like shit might happen to you

you know or like maybe the fucking they don't give you your transfers or the cop takes your tomato you know write you some bullshit shot so you fucking you're like really you know like demonstrative you're like fuck these motherfuckers man this fucking bullshit

you know because you're like you it's like you you emanate fucking like negativity to like keep motherfuckers at bay and keep them arm's length to keep away from you because all that shit is based on it's based and built on negativity man and all prison is it's like

really prison it's a lot like law enforcement sometimes because you just kind of it's like you try to fucking step up on somebody else's back to make yourself look better you know that's why like at the bottom of the prison hierarchy.

You got like the snitches, you know the chomos, you know, and the rapists. And you know, all of us, solid cons, were better than these motherfuckers. Yeah. So we, if we find out about them,

we beat the shit out of them and check them in the hole to make ourselves feel good. Right. You know, so it's, it's just like, it's, it's, the whole thing. I mean, it's just prison is like fucking like negativity.

What are the prison guards like? Are there any prison guards who are happy with what they're doing? Are there any of them there to make a difference and enjoy them, enjoy their jobs? Or are they just there? No, I wouldn't say that. You got the majority of prison guards are, I mean, they're pretty laid back, man. They'll tell you straight up. They'll be like, man, just let me do my eight hours, you know.

I don't care what you do. Just, you know, don't kill nobody. You know what I'm saying? Don't be the fuck out of nobody. Don't make me do no people work. They'll make their job order. So that's like nine out of ten or like that. And then you got like the one out of the ten is like the super cop.

Like he wants to go above and beyond. Yeah. And bust you for fucking petty shit. You know, but a lot of them, like a lot of the blocks, like, look, tattooing is illegal. You can't tattoo, but a lot of cops, they don't give a fuck. They don't walk right by. Check out the fucking tattoos and everything. They don't give a fuck.

You know what I'm saying? A lot of times, like even like, uh, like in there they call it politics so it's like you know any drama or any type of situations you know they call it politics so you know like uh you know like if you're a white boy and you do something fucking stupid and then the other white boys we got to fucking you know set you straight you know which means we might have to take you in a cell and whip your fucking ass you know especially if you did something stupid with some other races because in the other races they come to the white boy shot car or the white boy car and what i mean the white boy car that's like the group of white

dude they call it a car so they come you know to the leader of the white boy car and they're like oh man you got a fucking you know discipline your dude you know he stepped out of line he did this you know so then and what they do you do like a white dude will punish another white dude just to like avert a race riot right you know because then they'll be like okay yeah we punished them you know he stepped out of line he did something stupid or, you know, whatever, you know, maybe some, you know, stupid new dude in prison, you know, fucking use the N-word or something in front of a bunch of black dudes. And they're like, you know, the dudes aren't putting up with that shit.

Right. You know what I'm saying? They'll be ready to fucking beat the fuck out of you. But, you know, that's like the rules, like, not in all prisons. I mean, some prisons, like, county jail, it's not that. But when you're, like, on a prison yard, it's like the rules, like, you know, like, one race doesn't put their hands on another race. because that can cause a race right.

Right. You know, because like, like, if, if a black dude beats up a Spanish dude, even if it's one-on-one

to fight, it was fair and everything or whatever, then all the Spanish dudes are going to be out on the fucking yard, dude, it's going to be fucking, they're going to be ready, you know,

they're going to be ready to fucking go to war, you know, with shanks and fucking locks and socks and, you know, fucking kids. cans of fucking tuna in fucking, you know, fucking socks, locks on fucking belts.

Yep. You know, shit can get crazy in there, like, real quick. So, I mean, a lot of times you just do stuff, you know, like, I'll give you a situation. Like, I told this, I've told this story to a lot of people, like, maybe, like, we're in prison. Like, you're my celly. Like, we're cool. We're friends. Like, we kick it.

We talk shit. We play. We joke around. You know, in the cell. when it's just me and you. Right? But then, you know, we go out to the yard and like, you know, we're around this dude. He's like fucking Aryan circle.

You know, we're around fucking this dude. He's like a dirty white boy. You know, we're around this dude. He's like the leader of the fucking southern boys. You know, and then, you know, and then you want to fucking try to play or say something fly, you know, to make yourself look good. You know, to make yourself like you've got one up on me or something, you know, in front of these guys. And maybe like when we're in the cell, you're my friends. So I don't say shit.

I'm like, okay, whatever, dude, cool, shut the fuck up. You know what I'm saying? But you want to say that in front of other people. And then I got to fucking, you know, I don't even say nothing. I just fucking punch you in your fucking mouth. You know, because you can't make me look bad in front of these other people. That's going to like take my fucking respect from them. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And then you're going to fucking tell me in the later. Are you going to be like, what the fuck, dude? What did you push me in the mouth? And be like, dude, because you do some stupid shit. You can't jump out there. He's like, well, I say that shit in the cell. Okay, yeah, that's in the cell, dude.

Me and you, we're cool. But you don't say that shit in front of these fucking dudes because then they're going to take that as a chink in my fucking armor, and then my word isn't going to be shit. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, that's just, that's like politics. Right, right. So 21 years total, you said?

Yeah, 21 years, yeah. How did that change you when you got out? Did it be a different person? I mean, it made me who I am today. I mean, basically, um, Yeah, I would say it changed me I mean, I would say Like when I came in

I mean, I grew up in the suburbs man So, I mean, I've never been a violent person I mean, I was never like a violent or malicious person You know, I never like to get in fights, you know But I mean now, I mean, like I'm still not a violent person But I can get violent if I need to get violent, you know Like I tell people all the time, look I'm too old to fight

But I'm definitely too old to lose a fight you know what I'm saying so like like look and I don't want to have no problem with anybody you know I'm going to try to walk away whatever but if a motherfucker shows you that you can't walk away dude I'm just gonna get I'm gonna get as violent as possible as quick as possible and I'm gonna inflict as much damage as I can with no warning and then I'm just gonna leave it alone I'm gonna I'm gonna bounce you know what I'm saying that's how you got to deal with situations like that you know what I'm saying like you know I'm not a malicious person. So a malicious person, they might do that and get you down and keep trying

to fuck you up. You know, that's like a malicious evil person. They get off on shit like that. And there's a lot of people like that. I've seen people like that. But you know, me and myself, I've learned if there's a situation like that, you just got to inflict as much damage as you can. You don't let anybody know it's coming. And then like I say, you know, it's like the fight or flight. A lot of times if you do something real quick, you can like shock a person. And then while they're shocked, you know, laying on the floor or their face is bloody, their nose is broken, then you just fucking, you know, out here you bounce. I mean, in prison, obviously, you can't bounce.

It's a fishbow, you know, but, you know, still, I went with the same premise in there. Like, when I wasn't there, if there was some type of beef, I would just handle it right there. I didn't care where, I didn't care if we're in the chow hall. I didn't care if staffs around. If you disrespect me or you did something, I would handle it right then and there. Then and there, I wouldn't ask any questions. And then, you know, it's just better. like if something you know because in there like stuff people that stuff festers and it'll be like a

beef between two people and then it turns into this big thing you know with all these other people involved and then you might have to end up stabbing somebody or something yeah it's messy fast yeah so you know i've always you know i learned in there you know handle your business handle it right there you know just do it quickly and get it over with you know what i'm saying and then like i say man i've got a fight so i mean you know like i say it's not like i'm something tough dude i've fucking you know my nose's been broken five times you know what i'm saying my shit got split right here my shit got split right here and my shit got split right here so you know i mean if you

fight you're gonna take some losses you know what i'm saying yeah nobody fucking gotta take your lumps yeah you you know whatever but you know you just keep it moving you don't make it too serious you know or you don't like you know just somebody beat your ass now you got to go fucking stab them i mean that's fucking stupid yeah you know so what are you doing now So now that you're out, you're working on a new project? Yeah, so, you know, I started writing books in prison. Yeah. How many books did you write?

22. 22 books. While you were locked up. Yeah. Wow. Gangster books, all gangsters, nonfiction. True crime. Mostly African American gangsters.

You know, I wrote some prison stuff too, but, yeah, I started a journalism career. You know, I mean, that's basically I do true crime. I do like prison gangs. You know, I've done a lot of features like Vice, Penthouse, a lot of foreign magazines, real crime in UK, you know, in Australia. But all like prison gangs, mafia stuff, you know, like African American drug lords, you know, mostly like from the 80s from the crack era, you know, kind of the ones that were lionized in the, you know, the annals of hip-hop lore.

you know like especially gangster rap like in the mid 90s so i mean i was actually locked out with a lot of these dudes but um i didn't i was just like when i was in prison right i was like i started taking college classes you know and when you take college classes in there i was taking correspondence mostly and you can go two routes it's like business administration or kind of like writing you know that's the only thing that's offered it's real limited so um i was just trying to do something for my future you know so i i started uh taking college classes um I got an AA degree. I got a BA degree.

And I got a master's degree. Wow. You know? Did you get a master's degree in? Humanities. Okay. So all my stuff's like liberal arts, humanities. And like I say, I didn't, this for me, it was like a, this was like a 17-year process.

You know, I didn't not like, you know, it's not the typical college, you know, I got these degrees over 17 years. I started in 93. I got my master's degree in 2010. You know, I was taking like, you know, sometimes like nine, 12 credits a year because it's correspondence courses. So you got like nine months. to do them. You know, so I focused really heavily on the writing and then I started writing these stories. You know, I was always real athletic. I played a lot of sports. A lot of times I'd be the only white dude, you know, running ball with all the black dudes. I'd be the only white dude playing soccer

with all the Mexicans, you know, so that's kind of how I did my time. You know, I played sports. I did college classes. You know, I worked out. And then after I was in about six or seven years, I started thinking you know like what can I do for my future you know so I started writing you know I started writing these stories you know I started writing these books and um I mean literally like I was like the white dude

imprisoned that was writing books about the African American gangsters so you know think about that just on the face of it after everything I've already described to you you know just to tell you you know because I have relationships we used because I played sports and I played ball with them

But, you know, after I'd been in a while, they knew what type of dude I was in. And, you know, I started writing these books, you know, and, you know, when you write books in there, it's like I always tell people like, like, you hear people in the media all the time where they write books and, you know, they're, oh, they misquoted me. Like, you can't, you can't afford to misquote anybody in there, especially if you're a white dude writing books about African-American dudes. I mean, you could just imagine. Yeah, it's not going to look good. You could just imagine. but um you know but i i i walked that path you know i i navigated that path you know i i got that respect and really the books i wrote were books that i wanted to read you know what i'm saying

because when i first got locked up i i was locked up on the east coast for a lot of a lot of mafia dudes so i fucking read all the mafia books i was locked up with a lot of columbian cocaine cartel dudes i read all the columbian cocaine cartel dudes and then like in the mid-90s when like the gangster rap is like jumping off. You know, and I'm playing ball with a lot of these dudes. And, you know, I'm a hip-cop kid, too. You know, I grew up in the 80s, so, you know, that's when hip-hop started. So, you know, I was around, you know, I've been a hip-hop fan since 1983 when it first came out, you know, or when I first learned about it.

But I would watch, you know, I'd be one of the only white dudes, like, watching, you know, like, these gangster rap videos. And I would hear the dudes, you know, they would, like, talk about these dudes, you know, the rappers. and then the guys like from New York or the guys from that area they would start talking about them And I'd be like you know I was like intrigued and You know so I was like looking for books You know I'm calling my mom and my girl. I'm like order me books And these and they're like there's no books and then you know I'd ask about these guys more like these street legends You know from the hood and um

And they'd be like oh yeah that dude's on B block and I'd be like what? So that's how I first started writing because I started going to these guys and I started saying hey man like let me tell your story yeah let me interview you you know and um so all this it was I wrote books that I wanted to read but at the same time I was looking for a future for myself you know in my end goal I knew I was getting out I mean I had 25 years but I knew I was young I was 22 so I knew I was getting out I knew I had a future it wasn't like I had life you know or it wasn't like I was winning when I was 40 or 50 and had 30 years you I knew I was getting out.

I'd still, you know, have my health. I'd still, you know, be young enough to have a career. You know, so my end game, my end game the whole time was film. You know? I mean, I wanted to make film. I just couldn't make film because I was in prison. You know what I'm saying? So I wrote books, you know, and I wrote books.

You know, I always think my writing has always kind of been on the cutting edge, but I also think my writing, too, it's changed. Because, like, when I first started writing, I was taking these African-American gangsters, and I was writing about them, like, you know, like Billy the kid, Jesse James type figures, you know. And then as I got older and I matured more and I kind of saw how the system was, you know, kind of a lot of some of the stuff we've talked about, you know, my views on the system and the war on drugs and law enforcement and, you know, the, you know, criminal judiciary system or whatnot,

I started seeing things different. So my writing kind of changed to more like advocacy type of stuff, you know, from this, you know, romanticizing or glorifying, you know, gangsterism. So, you know, but I think everybody, you know, as you get older, you can kind of change

and you start to see things different. And maybe, you know, what was cool to you at 25 might not be cool to you at 40. So, you know, my writing kind of changed but um like still the whole time man i'm writing these books and in in my head i'm like man i'm when i get out i'm gonna make film i'm gonna do film this is what i want to do because to me as a writer film is like like that's like the ultimate evolution you know as a writer that's like the ultimate in game like you know if you're a writer you know to to actually become like a director

of like a film and and shape this visual thing because visual stuff just has such a much bigger impact, you know, than written words, you know. I mean, more people are going to watch a movie or documentary they're going to read a book. I mean, that's just a given. You know what I'm saying? I mean, because it's shorter. It doesn't take as long. You know, people don't have the attention spans or whatever. So, yeah, I got out

2015. I had all these books. I started at the publishing house, guerrilla convict while I was in prison. I became like an, you know, basically, I was doing columns for vice, you know, like all in the early 2000s. I had a column called I'm busted, you know, about prison stuff.

I was ranked for all these other places. And, yeah, just kind of built. And then when I got out, you know, I had this idea. I was like, man, I want to make film. So I actually went to this for almost like five years where I became like this national true crime journalist. You know, just because, I mean, they just paying me good money. So I was just running with it. You know, like right out of prison, now I was making pretty good money.

And they were flying me all these different places. is like dude like you know when apple has like those big unveiling events yeah i've been flown to those twice just because i was like a national journalist for vice you know like i've covered like sundance you know i've like covered all these fucking things vice pay you pretty good yeah yeah they pay pretty good do they what do they what did they what did they pay if you don't want me i did like uh i was getting like five hundred dollars for like 1200 words oh really yeah back in the 2000s early 2000s um no i didn't get out till 2015 Oh, this was after you got out

Yeah When I know back When I was in prison I was getting paid like 350 Oh okay 350 for about 900 a thousand words That was like my column I was getting 350

Okay So you know I was getting like 350 a month for a monthly column Like you get $350 in prison You kind of like live like a king Yeah you're doing good Yeah so you know But then I got out

That's crazy you hear all those stories About those vice reporters And producers Producers that don't make shit Yeah Well I'm saying I mean Before they sold out

And the big scheme of things, I mean, you know, $350 to $500 a piece is kind of chump change, you know, and especially, you know, VICE is notorious for being low budgeted on film stuff. You know, like where something like A&E or history might have like a $250,000 budget for like, you know, like something like I was a teenage felon. You know, the budget might be like on an A&E or history, it might be like a couple hundred thousand. And like those budgets were like probably pretty low. Well, their whole thing is they're, they're cool company. They were, well, back in the day, maybe still a little bit now, they were cool. So people wanted to work for them for free.

Like it looks, it looks cool if you had advice on your resume so they could pay you nothing. Well, plus what they do. I think a lot of industry stuff does that. I mean, they get young kids when they come out of college, when they can pay them nothing before they prove themselves. Right. You know what I'm saying? And pay them. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, pay them $35,000 a year, you know, to work 10 hours a day. I mean, in the media industry. So, I mean, I think, I mean, it's a little bit of exploitation, but I mean, I guess that's capitalism, you know, especially in the media industry. Yeah. But it's better than college, too. Honestly, when you do that, when you learn so much more when you actually go to work

for a real company than you do when you're in college. You're like, what the fuck was I doing in college this whole time? I mean, dude, I wrote stuff for free while I was in prison. I mean, dude, I got a ton of stuff that's never even been published. Like, wow, I was learning how to write, crafting my trade. So, I mean, you know, if you got a passion for something, you can get paid for. It's all good. Yeah, for sure.

You know, but yeah, I mean, it could be an exploitive angle, too. You know, I mean, you should always pay people what they, you know, are worth or what they deserve. But, yeah, I got out, I had the goal to make film. I actually, right when I got out, I made this little, this short series. It's called Easter Bunny Assassin. Like, it's on YouTube. You know, I never really took off. I think maybe got, like, you know, 20,000, 30,000 views now.

But I made that, like, right? It's like a little fictional thing. I had, like, this little character called the Easter Bunny. You know, like a dude in a James Bond outfit with a bunny head, and he was going around, like, whacking people. And, like, other holiday crime figures, you know, like, he whacked Santa Claus, Santa Claus crack dealer. There was Jesus Christ junkie, you know, and Tooth Fairy Mafia Dawn. So this was, like, a little kind of thing that I envisioned in prison. And I got out, and that was kind of how I learned.

That was, like, my first foray into film. I just got, like, some, you know, I convinced. some local college students that were, you know, in film school. I'm like, hey, let's go shoot this. You know, and I bought some cameras and bought some equipment. And they were like, fuck it, let's do it. So that was, yeah, that was kind of almost like my training, my first training. But then, um.

It's on YouTube. It's on YouTube. You can watch it. Easter Bunny Assassin? Yeah, Easter Bunny Assassin. And we'll have to check that out. It's kind of like some, it's like some low budget gorilla. Yeah.

I think like we made the whole thing for like $2,000. That was just like the food and the batteries. You went off the camera and the media. But then, you know, I really got lucky when I got involved with White Boy, you know, the documentary that's on Netflix now that I wrote and produced. I interviewed this director, Sean Wreck. He did this film called Murder in the Park that was on Showtime. You know it was about a wrongful conviction.

And Sean Wreck had actually cut his teeth. He did like 200 crime stopper shows for all the networks. And then, you know, this is like 2000, whatever, 16 when I first came into contact with him, like right when true crime is like blowing up right after, you know, making a murder. So he does this, a murder in the park. It's on Showtime. It gets named Time magazine. Names at like Top 15.

You know, true crime documentary for the year. So I interviewed him for Vice. and actually for whatever reason vice ended up killing the piece so the piece never ran but I struck up a relationship with him and he had just finished that film and he was actually looking you know for his second film so we started talking and he found out about my background you know he was a true crime dude so

you know mostly a lot of people that are into true crime they're going to like my backstory you know what I'm saying so we started talking and he was also you know he was amazed at all the work all the writing i'd done he was like whoa man that's crazy you did 21 years and you did all this stuff so um he flew me up to cleveland and he basically he's like man uh you know because i told him you know i wasn't shy i told him i wanted to make film you know i told him i did that little easter bunny assassin thing for what it was worth but i said you know i wanted to make docks i saw myself you know doing true crime and eventually features and stuff like that so he flew me up there and we started talking about ideas you know like he was like well what ideas you have

so i was throwing different ideas at him you know about like some prison related stuff or you know i think at this time i was like on really this uh exposing the prisons thing you know because i was just out so i wanted to do this documentary that exposed all the evils of the prison industry so that was like my big thing that i was pitching to him but he was kind of like well i don't know and then um you know and then i just casually mentioned you know that i had wrote all these articles on the guy, White Boy Rick, for Vice, you know, for trying to get him out saying that he should be out. And that struck his interest because he knew that they had this Hollywood movie with Matthew McConaughey that he was just going into production called White

Boy Rick, you know, about the same story. So he found out I knew White Boy, you know, he found out, you know, I had the foundations of the story from these articles. You know, I'd written for like the fix and vice and vice news. So, uh, you know, he found out, you know, I had the foundations of the story and vice news. he was basically like, you know, let's do this, you know. And I kind of made a deal with him. I was like, look, I go, I want you to basically, you know, mentor me on this film, you know, because I knew how to tell a story. You know, I wrote books, but I didn't know how to make a film.

I didn't know the nuts and bolts, you know, how everything went. And when I walked in this dude's office, too, I saw he had nine Emmys, you know, in his office, not national but regional emys that he'd won for all those crime stopper shows, all like Ohio Emmys, you know. And I was like, okay, this dude must know what the fuck he's doing. So, you know, we made a deal and he said, you know, so he, all the shoots like he would fly me in. You know, he would involve me in the editing process. And really, you know, he taught me, you know, how to make a film, you know, a documentary film.

And this, I mean, this dude is a really good filmmaker. So we made White Boy, you know, I wrote and produced that and I learned from him. I peer in that too, you know, as a talking head. and that was like kind of my initial foray into film and that actually came out man that actually came out on stars like around 2018 really yeah and it was weird because I knew it was a real good movie I knew this movie it was this crazy story

but I don't know it never kind of took off and I don't maybe it was because when the the white boy Rick Hollywood movie came out I think it kind of bombed yeah you know what I'm saying so maybe you know just whatever the circumstances yeah and our doc kind of came out around the same time so maybe we got buried because of that movie it bombed so nobody had an interest so right so we were actually on stars for like almost like two years and you know people knew it was cool I had a documentary on stars but it was you know I had other projects that you know I wanted to get off but I wasn't

get any interest you know nobody was interested in funding any of my projects and then um yeah and then like crazy shit happened And like, you know, the pandemic, you know, the riots, you know, the Black Lives Matters going national, people talking about, you know, police brutality and police corruption all over the world. You know, I just think the pandemic really slowed everything down in this country, you know, because before I think when it first came out, like 2018, it's like just a rat race. Everybody's trying to get money, capitalism. They're not really, I don't think people were open or receptive. to the story that we show in White Boy Rick because the level corruptions are like so fucking crazy.

I don't think people believed it. So they just dismissed it. But then, you know, after the pandemic and everything that happened, you know, that I just mentioned through the pandemic and, you know, the last couple years of Trump, which were pretty chaotic. And like I say, I'm not pro-Trump or, you know,

against Trump, you know, really, I don't like Biden. Biden is the one who built all the fucking prisons. you know him and clinton but you know i'm not i i try not to you know get politically involved but i mean i i think anybody would say the last two years of trump were uh pretty chaotic in this country yeah you know at least in the media i don't know but um so i think all those things that happened that i just described kind of made people more receptive to what white boys about and the level of police corruption that we're talking about.

So then when it went on Netflix, you know, it went off stars and we signed a new streaming deal with Netflix. And it went on Netflix in April, you know, right at the, I guess, the end of the pandemic. I don't know, maybe the pandemic is still going. April this year? Yeah. And yeah, dude, it went on there. And it was like it was a brand new movie. Dude, it blew up.

It was like the first two weeks it was on. It was like top 10. Really? And it wasn't like top 10 documentaries. it was like top 10 on the whole site for like movies, series, everything for two weeks straight, right? And then like they said in April and May, like it had 20 million views, man. Like it just fucking exploded. So I don't know.

It's weird how things happen because everything that's happening to me now, like film-wise, I was ready for this shit to happen like in 2018. I really thought it was going to happen in 2018. But for whatever reason, it didn't happen. But, you know, so I had like this, whatever, like almost three-year fucking delay of my fucking film career. Not to say, I was still trying to make shit happen. But now... It's hard to make shit happen in that whole world, the whole film industry.

Yeah, I mean, it is. I know. I've been battling, man. I've been trying to make shit happen. But, you know, now since I got the recognition from White Boy and White Boy blew up, it's just made people are way more receptive to my ideas because I tell people I equated to, like, You know, like when the New England Patriots win the Super Bowl. All right, everybody knows Tom Brady's like the main dude, right?

But then you see, like, all the support players sign these big contracts with other teams. Right? So it's like the same, like White Boy, like I'm not the main person on White Boy. Sean Rec was the main person on White Boy. You know, the editor, Brandon Kemmer, he was the second main person on White Boy.

You know, so if anything, and there's his other producer, Scott Bernstein. So maybe me and him might be like the third, fourth, you know, fourth third, whatever. you know so you know I contributed to it you know and I helped shaped it and you know the the story the origin came to me the access came from me you know but um you know I was a supporting player on this document I'm not going to steal credit from anybody else you know what I'm saying they deserve their credit for making a real good film but you know I helped to make this film I was

a part of it so it's now like uh I got that recognition and so it's like people think like you know, I'm a part of that magic, so maybe I have that magic. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's weird because I always tell people like, I'm the same person. Like I haven't really changed,

but it's like the way people look at me has changed because of that film getting 20 million views in two months on Netflix. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was weird because I started going to Sundance about four years ago. And I started meeting some people on Sundance, and I met all these, like,

amazing talented filmmakers and they got their films in Sundance and they got their films in Cans and Tribeca and SWSX and I'm just like I'm like fuck like this is what I want to do you know and um white boy blew up and like none of these dudes have like a top 10 film on Netflix and they're like calling me they're asking me like like what's a secret how did I do it and I'm like you know it's just it was like this shift you know so it's weird man I mean I'm I'm still dealing with it now, you know. I mean, I'm getting used to it. But, you know, so I've got a funding for a lot of my different projects.

So I got this film Nightlife. It's about the violence in North City, you know, that's about to come out. You know, I follow this dude around North City. Like, we're the worst parts of St. Louis. We followed him around with cameras for three years. He's basically a violence interrupter. He's a preacher named Reverend Kenneth McCoy. We followed him around from like 10 p.m.

to 1 a.m. in the morning on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, like with all the drug addicts, the pimps, the prostitutes, you know, the drug dealers, the gangbangers, you know, the homeless people, you know, that's what he does, that he administers to these people, you know, these are, these are his flock. You know, he takes out sandwiches, so I followed him. I followed him with a three-camera team. Really? Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. Like gunshots, people threaten to steal our cameras and smash our cameras and threaten us all types of crazy shit. I bet that was wild. Yeah, it was wild.

So that doc's almost ready. Hell yeah. Where are you going to release that documentary? I just took it to a sales agent, and I'm thinking maybe a film festival too. So, you know, I don't have, you know, I always tell people, like, you hear a lot of people say, oh, it's going to be on Netflix.

I mean, unless you have some, unless you're like Martin Scorsese and you have, like, some overall deal with Netflix, you can't say where the shit's going to end up. You know, I, I do shit independently. You know what I'm saying? I work with private investors. They give me money and I do stuff on spec. Then I finish it, then I go to a sales agent and they try to sell it.

Right. You know, so that's where I'm out right now. So I got that nightlife project. I got this project I'm calling it. It's an LSD trade project. I'm calling it the psychedelic revolution right now. It's about the history, the LSD trade, you know, the underground chemists, you know how they locked up in targeting.

all the people for LSD like myself in the 80s and 90s and put us in prison for a long time and how now we've almost gone 360 and they're talking about legalizing psychedelics and decriminalizing it. So that's what that. That's my LSD doc I'm working on. I got a Humboldt County doc I'm working on. You know that it tells the history of Humboldt County and the Emerald Triangle and how these people up in the mountains of Northern California became known for growing the best marijuana

in the world. one time in the 80s and 90s supplied 60% of the domestic product in the U.S. You know, then it tells how, like, you know, how, like, they were terrorized and where they lived was basically militarized with, like, helicopters and the military going in, you know, and arresting them and throw them in jail and, you know, cutting down their crops. And then, you know, it goes full circle to, like, you know, I was locked out with some of these guys from Humboldt County. And now they're out now and they have legal farms, you know.

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, so you would think it's all good. You know, these guys are legal now, but now, you know, with big ag and big pharma coming in the marijuana game in California, and you know, a lot of these guys are small farmers. You know, these guys are up in the mountains. They're small farms. You know, they only got, you know, so many spots.

And, like, down in Southern California, you know, in Santa Rosa, they have these big greenhouses, you know, with these massive operations. And these guys are struggling. So, you know, that's what that films is about. It's about the history of Humboldt County. about the Emerald Triangle. It's about why they grow the best marijuana in the world, why they should be considered like the Napa Valley of Cannabis. But, you know, it's also about the problems that they're facing right now in the market in California and how a lot of these farmers, like the cops couldn't make them stop growing weed, the war on drugs

couldn't make them stop growing weed, you know, the droughts and the fires couldn't make them start growing weed. But now a lot of them might have to stop growing weed. They might give up because, you know, big ag because they're taking over the market and they're driving the price down. Yeah, they can't make no money. So that's my Humboldt County Doc. So that's my, I got my LSD doc.

I got my Cannabis Doc. I got an ecstasy dock that is, it's about this crew out of Atlanta called the Southside Boys that were like these huge, are these huge ecstasy suppliers. They were importing from Amsterdam. They were supplying like, you know, Atlanta, all the Southwest,

down here in Florida. Florida, one of their big hubs was Panama City. And one of their, one of their stomping grounds was the club, the club, the club La Vila, you know, which is a famous club in Panama City. It's like the world's biggest nightclub. It's closed now. It's like, it's like where they had a, you know, like MTV used to film there and a lot of the WCW Nitro and stuff like that. And I think like girls gone wild. But so I'm doing that on that extracy ring called the, you know, Southside, the Southside boys. And then I'm working on this other project.

It's called Dopeman. It's basically about America's first drug cartel. And it goes all the way back to the 20s. And it looks at like, you know, when the mafia started the international global drug trade. You know, because in pop culture, you know, in a lot of movies, there's this thing like the mafia says like, oh, like we don't fuck with heroin. But, I mean, they were the first drug cartel. You know, heroin has been their biggest moneymakers. since, you know, before prohibition ended.

So I got that story, too, so that goes all the way back. So that's kind of like, you know, the projects. I'm hoping to get all these projects out, like, within the next 12 to 18 months. God damn, Seth. That's a lot of projects. You're on it, man. You are a busy dude. I don't know if we're ever going to find an answer to this, the prison industrial complex in this country.

But if anyone can shine light on it, it's probably you. Yeah, I don't know, man. I just saw it. My biggest thing now is let all the nonviolent weed people out, man. I mean, they're still like, from the numbers I've read, there's still like 40,000 people locked up, nonviolent for cannabis. Let them out, man. You know what I'm saying?

You've got people making millions of dollars, man. Yeah. You know, so let these people out. Like I said, I've been in prison. Any reasonable person will agree there's people in prison that belong in prison. And like I say, I don't hate law enforcement. You know, that's their job. Lock up those violent people.

They don't deserve to be out here. If you, you know, whatever. Sometimes you might do something violent and, you know, you learn your lesson and you know you're okay and you assimilate society. But these people that are repeat violent offenders, put them in prison, man. That's where they deserve, man. This is like fucking polite society. You should have to be walking around, you know, thinking someone's going to threaten you or fucking whip you with a gun or shoot you or take your shit. You know what I'm saying?

Right. that's not what this world is about. That's not what America's about. But, you know, so those people belong in prison. But, you know, all these nonviolent drug offenders, especially the marijuana guys. I mean, let them out, man. Lock up the serial killers, lock up the chomos.

Yeah, man. Legalize all drugs and we'll all be fine. I mean, shit, you know what I'm saying? Drugs is just a commodity, man. Yeah. Cool, man. We'll let everybody know where they can find your projects, your work, whatever you're working on now online.

Yeah, I got my website. Gorilla Convick.com. I also got Seth Ferranti.com. And, like, I'm on social media, man. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter.

So I post about a lot of my stuff. Like, when I do my different shoots, you know, I post like behind-the-scene photos. You know, I'm actually, I'm going to be in Humboldt. Coming up on the 11th of September, I'm doing a two-week shoot. There, I'll be there from the 11th to the 26th on a 10-day shoot. So I'll be put.

posting, you know, a lot of stuff. You know, if you like cannabis, if you like marijuana, you know, follow me on Instagram, you know, Seth Ferranti, and you'll see all those, you know, images of the Emerald Triangle, like the mecca of marijuana, you know, if that's your thing. But, you know, also I'll keep all my work current. I got some other books coming out. I got a new book coming out called Criminal Escapades, which is about a lot of articles I wrote on Mafia guys, you know, that I was locked up, like famous Mafia.

So, you know, some other prison gang leaders and stuff. like that it has like 20 chapters that's coming out on guerrilla convict my my published house and then um i'm doing this other book that's going to come out next spring called thug life the true story of hip-pop and organized crime it's on this boutique publisher called uh hamilcar you know they they mostly do they do a lot of boxing crime stuff but i'm like one of their first forays into hip-hop so it's actually to me this book is really special because um it's going to be my first hard back Cool, man Okay.

Yeah. So, and hopefully, I've been talking to the publisher, but hopefully I want to see it, I want to see in the airport, man. I want to walk through the airport. Every time I,

you know, I travel a lot now, and every time I walk through the airport, I just, like, I want to see my fucking book. Hell yeah. In the fucking, to me,

as a writer, you know, books, that's like the ultimate. Yeah, when you see your fucking book in the airport. You walk by and see it right there. Yeah.

I'd be like, yes. Hell yeah. Take pictures. Yeah. For Instagram. Cool, man. I did for the gram. Yeah, but look.

I appreciate you doing this. Yeah. No, thanks for having me, man. Look, I actually, I had some friends in St. Louis that listen to you guys all the time. And, right, and they knew, you know, like when my media profile was kind of ticking up, you know, with White Boy. And, you know, I've done a lot of different podcasts, but you know, smaller podcasts and stuff like that. And then, you know, when my profile started kind of ticking up, they actually told me, they're like, man, you need to go on concrete. They're like, you need to go on concrete podcast.

I'm like, what the fuck is concrete? They're like, that's like the fucking biggest true crime fucking podcast, man. They're like, you need to go on, you know, and I had like several of my friends in St. Louis. Like, they listen to you guys religiously. And then, so I already knew concrete, but I didn't know how to get in touch with you guys. And then it was weird. You know, your producer, Tyler, he heard me, I was doing something on Clubhouse. Oh, yeah.

And he just happened to, like, you know, chime in and caught me. And then, yeah, we started talking and, like, hooked it up. It's just weird how shit happens. Yeah, he's got a problem with Clubhouse. He's on there hard, yeah. No, but that's how he found me, you know? But it was weird because it was like right before he reached out to me just like two weeks before. Yeah.

Like I had some of my buddies. They were like, dude, you need to go on concrete. And I was like, what the fuck is concrete? That's right. Yeah, they were like breaking down. I mean, because they're like you're fucking, they're like you're fucking obsessive fans. That's awesome. They probably know.

They know every fucking show. Jeremy, Jeremy Salvatore. That's your number one fan in St. Louis. Hell yeah. Shout out to Jeremy. Hit us up. We'll send you some merch. man hell yeah cool man well thank you again for coming down i really appreciate it all right thank you

for whiskey yeah man absolutely anytime cheers cheers goodbye world