Danny Jones Podcast - #117 - Revealing the most Insane Alien Abduction Claim in History | Brad Abrahams

Episode Date: November 19, 2021

Brad Abrahams is a documentary filmmaker who investigates some of the worlds most odd & interesting characters for example he spent 3 years documenting David Huggins, a 72 year old man who claims he lost his virginity to an extra-terrestrial alien-woman hybrid and had multiple children with her. Brad also focuses a considerable amount of his work on conspiracy theory culture, dissecting the minds of people who believe in the most outlandish theories & ideas. Follow Brad: http://bradabrahams.net  help us make more money: https://bit.ly/koncretepatreon  sponsors  Use code KONCRETE50 to save 50% off your personalized trial set from Geologie. https://geolog.ie/koncrete50 https://liquiddeath.com -  Use code KONCRETE at checkout to get a free koozie 2-pack with a 12-pack purchase.   danny  https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny  https://twitter.com/jonesdanny Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, world. Brad Abraham's is a documentary filmmaker from Canada, who's currently based in the USA. Brad's documentaries feature some of the world's most odd and interesting characters. For example, he spent three years documenting David Huggins, a 72-year-old man who claims he lost his virginity to an extraterrestrial alien woman hybrid, and also claims he had multiple children with her. Brad also focuses a considerable amount of his work on conspiracy theory culture, dissecting the minds of people who believe in the most outlandish theories and ideas. This was a super fun episode. We got to jump down many different rabbit holes. Without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Brad Abrams.

Brad, you are an interesting dude. You have some great work. Thank you. I've been watching all of your documentary for the past few days. Again, I've already watched them once. I've watched them for the second time. Appreciate it. What the hell draws you to these types of characters?

Yeah, so it's two things. One is really the biggest draw is... Scoot this thing a little bit closer. Sure. The biggest draw is a fascination with belief and wanting to understand why these people believe in these things. But a smaller draw, maybe it's about, you know, a quarter compared to the 75% of that is... out. I also want to believe, you know, there's like a part of me that that holds out that, you know, UFO abductions are maybe real or Bigfoot is maybe real or some of these conspiracy theories are real. And I think that's what draws all of us to the subject matter, really. Even if, even if we're just watching and laughing, we still sort of want to believe that it could be

real. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was telling you right before we started the guy, Mike Cleland, who are the messenger books about the owls and synchronicities. like I was telling you, I had him on here for a couple hours and we were talking. And it's just as for me, as far as like my experience, talking to people who claim to have been abducted by UFOs. I just started to, I just started to question him so much the more and more we started talking. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I started to lose sort of like, I wanted to believe him at first.

And then as we started going down the rabbit hole and he started talking more about these synchronities and how he believes he was like some chosen one. He had been abducted so many times, and it was sort of like his calling in life was to tell this story. I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels, gets you more of the experiences you value. The Cambria hotels got it all. A rooftop bar, have a ball. Cocktails up here feel just right. Is Cambria amazing all right? Bring a date, your team, or even your kids.

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Yeah, so David, David is a mild-mannered, nearly 80-year-old man in Hoboken, New Jersey. and he claims that he has been having extraterrestrial experiences since he was, I think, like, nine. And once he hit 17, these experiences turned sexual. He says he lost his virginity to one of these extraterrestrials at 17. I'm glad they waited until he was somewhat age-appropriate. And up until probably like that, you know, this was happening in this, in the, maybe the 50s or the 60s up until the 80s or 90s he kept having these experiences and decided to chronicle them all through these amazing surrealistic oil paintings, which he then, he would finish

a painting and just like put it against his wall. It wasn't for anyone to see except for himself until basically I came into his life and saw his studio, which had like 200 something of these paintings and knew that I had to. put his life to film. How did you discover him again? It was, I don't actually really remember. It was maybe back in like 2010 or 11 or something, listening to some paranormal radio show,

and they mentioned him offhand as too crazy for them to even talk about. So I was like, well, this is the guy that I need to try and find and realize he had no internet presence. He's never used the internet and doesn't have email or anything like that. And I tracked down his neighbor. who had done a little book of his paintings, which not many people had seen. And she gave me his home phone number. And I called him like a cold call.

And immediately he was just like, yeah, I think it's time for me to tell my story. And yeah, we had maybe about like 10, two hour long phone calls where I got every single detail to try and figure out, is this going to be worth me spending because of years to make a documentary, you know, is this going to be worth my time? Eventually I spent a weekend with him as an experiment. I slept in his ex-wife's bedroom, whom he still lives with, but she was away on vacation. And it was just like a weird, wild weekend. And I was like, yes, this is going to work.

Wow. Oh, my God, dude. That's fucking wild. I've had a couple. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's. But he's told his story. He has told his story before, right?

Like with that guy Bud Hopkins? Well, no, but was he in his books or no? He wasn't. No, okay. No, but the Bud Hopkins book, I think it was called intruders. That was what David, David basically, like a lot of alien abductees didn't have access to all the memories. And he randomly found this book in the bookstore, started reading it. And there was a chapter called Other Women, Other Men, that was about kind of sexual abduction experiences.

Yeah. And as soon as he started reading it. reading it, he said all of the memories started to crystallize again. They all came clear, and that's when he started to paint them from memory. Pardon the interruption, but this episode of the podcast is brought to you by our friends at geology. This award-winning men's skincare company will formulate a customized skin care routine just for you, using a handful of powerful, proven ingredients that have been trusted by dermatologists for decades. In fact, geology is one of the only men's skin care routine.

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4,000 5-star reviews, why not give it a try? Head to geology.com, take their free skin care quiz, and save up to 50% off your 30-day trial. Or just click the link below and use the code Concrete 50 at checkout. That's promo code K-O-N-C-R-E-T-E-50 at checkout. Back to the show. And he claims that he had multiple children with these alien beings and held the children and wanted to go it's a fucking it's bananas yeah it gets more and more bananas yeah the children part was you know because there's you know i've been abducted you've heard a lot of people say say that and maybe that's true and then there's you know i had sex with aliens that's another level of of sort of credulity like well i believe that but then there's i've had lots of hybrid babies with aliens that i've seen that i've seen

seen and held and played hide and seek with on the spaceship. And it's like, wow, you know, I can't really, I can't say I believe anymore. But I still, I want to believe him in that something happened to him. But that detail and those details is just like too much, that's too much for me in my brain to imagine. Maybe that's just, you know, I can't think outside the box enough for that. What was your first take

dealing with this guy? Like the first weekend you spent with him? Like what was your first reaction? Just totally disarmed by so down to earth, so nice, normal, like plugged into the world, you know,

like into politics and everything. I would walk his street and meet all of his neighbors and they all loved him. They all just thought of him as like the grandpa on the street. He'd been there 30 years. go into his place of work, like David's the best. Most people just didn't even know that he had had these experiences. He doesn't talk about them with most people.

So I was getting this impression that, you know, I maybe was going to go there thinking he's going to be unhinged in some way, but that's not the impression you get at all. And anyone that meets David is just like, wow. And then that cognitive dissonance starts to happen. You're like, well, someone that seems so normal, you're not going to write off. as just crazy and he's making it up or he has paranoid delusions because that doesn't seem

like what's going on and so then you really start thinking like well what could that be and then that's you know what i'm most interested in yeah yeah now his massive collection of supernatural sci-fi movies on VHS did his obsession with these paranormal sci-fi movies start before he, these things happened to him before he started telling the stories or at what point because I in the documentary you make the connection or one of the guys you're interviewing makes the connection

saying that these experience these real life experiences people have directly affect these science fiction stories and then it's like a cycle and then the science fiction stories affect that the more

real life situations people say they encounter. Yeah. So do you know, do you have like a timeline of when he became, started collecting all these movies and becoming obsessed with them? Yeah, so, so it's interesting is that seemed to happen later, you know, just like in the 80s when he started collecting them, but he early on was that movie, did you ever see John Carpenter's the thing, the 80s one? Yeah, it's like Kurt Russell and it's like just these horribly disgusting like alien monsters. Well, the first version of that, the original version of that came out. the year that he had his first encounter. And so, or he watched it around that time, you know, probably in the theater or something.

And so there's these things, you know, I'll hear things like that. And it's like, well, maybe then that's in your brain and maybe you still had an experience, but you're like mapping on things that you're seeing. But still back in, you know, in the, I guess in the 50s and the 60s, that was kind of a UFO Mania too. Like there was like reports of UFOs over the White House. Yeah. And, you know, he probably, because there was no internet, he probably had very little exposure to this stuff, but it was still there and around.

And especially when he started remembering most of it, that's in the 80s. And that's like, you know, prime UFO time. Yeah. A lot of his stories, a lot of his drawings are very similar to a lot of other really popular events. And he doesn't have access to the internet. So how would he know? Right, yeah.

I don't know how much of that imagery he'd. I get the gray definitely, I think everyone had seen, but insectoid beings. Praying mantis. Yeah, yeah. And the tall people, the alien women, those seem pretty unique. He did see, like, he had mentioned, like, in a Doctor Who episode that he saw, that he had mentioned he saw it. And he was like, oh, that's weird. It's like I'm having a memory.

And I watched it. And it's like these giant ants, like these ant people that sort of look like his praying mantis. And so, again, it might be that he had these experiences. And then he saw these mantoid beings and they remind him of him. Or he saw those. And he's like, oh, I had, you know, mapping that on to in his own brain. Yeah. It also reminds me of the whole Travis Walton story as well.

Right. Yeah. Like with the human slash alien hybrids. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Which was very odd. Uh-huh.

And more terrifying. Like David, the Travis Walton story is like truly terrifying. And David is just like, oh, I had a good time. Yeah. Yeah.

So overall, your experience with him and doc, how long did you film with him? It was, it was, it happened over years, like maybe three years or something, but I would only go like a couple

weekends per year to shoot with him because it was all self-funded. I got a little money from a production company, but it just, It just takes, docks take forever, and then it took like two years to, you know, edit it and put it together. But I'd basically, the first time I went and saw him was like nine years ago. Wow. Yeah.

And he still calls me like every other day. Does he really? Yeah, he just checks in. He'll tell me if he had a weird dream. If someone buys one of his paintings, he just wants to know what's going on with me. Yeah. I want to buy one of his paintings. Those things are amazing.

Uh-huh. You got to do it in person. Yeah. Okay. You get a fly there and get it. Buy for a room. Pretty much. Or if you have a friend in New York.

So is this. guy, is this guy full of shit? Did this happen to him? What's your take? My take is knowing him, he didn't make it up. He experienced something. And it's hard for me to believe that it's exactly as he described it. But so he might be, he might be like in the movie, the professor of religious studies says, you know, we experience something.

But then popular culture is how. we filter it and see it because we can't even comprehend what that reality really is. So maybe, I mean, that's what I more lean to, that David was having what classically would be called mystical experiences, which are similar to psychedelic experiences without the drugs. And yeah, they're almost like religious experiences that David was having. And maybe it's like some kind of epilepsy. Like there's, I talked to some neuro, some neurologist or neuro-ine, and theologist, and there's like, there are types of waking hour epilepsy that they're very

vivid hallucinations. Maybe, you know, everyone's wrong and he has some kind of paranoid, delusional personality disorder. Maybe he is making it up or maybe something really happened to him, like all these things it could be, but I, I would just say that I think that he's just not lying. That's all I can say is that he's not lying that strange things happen to him Or he experienced strange things And he's telling it as he remembers it But if I were like with David when one of these things were happening I don't think I would have seen what he was seeing

I don't think they were really happening in our like objective reality as we see it Yeah Sort of it was like like almost in another dimension like a dream like state Who knows yeah and and and I also So, you know, I'm not, I want to clarify, I'm not saying that, like, all UFO sightings are this either. Okay. Because I think those can be different things, like UFOs, which now we have, you know, footage of from the military. Right.

And from being, from having sex with whoever's on these UFOs, you know? They don't have to be the same thing. And I think a lot of people get caught up in that. Well, a funny thing is about the whole, like, I mean, it's a fun, it's such a fun subject. Uh-huh. The funny, the interesting thing about it is, is, not that long ago, just like talking about UFOs was like had the stigma of modern day talking about abduction. Like right. Like now talking about UFOs is like, okay, yeah, it's been in the New York

Times. It's been like, like, Navy pilots talk about it. And it's like, yeah, we accept it. And but abduction is kind of like, okay, now you're crossing the line. Yeah. But not that long ago, it was like just talking about seeing UFOs being real, talking about UFOs being real, that was crossing the line. Yeah. So how much down the line farther down, you know, the timeline we go when you know maybe abduction will be proven right and maybe yeah and then like okay we'll wait for sex with aliens for wait another 10 years until we accept that and then we'll all be looking back at david and being like damn he was right yeah but i mean going back in in uh like the greek and hindu mythology uh they're sex with their gods right who kind of look like aliens

and come from the sky and so it could you know it could just be a different form of that. Yeah. He seems just like such a, like a nice person, such as like a genuine guy. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that's looking for attention. No. He's not publishing books or anything. He seems like the, like even the art show, seems like something that you guys kind of like, or not maybe you, but other people around him, pushed him to do.

Like, encouraged him to do it. Yeah. Oh, no, I did it. Like I set up the whole show for him. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Otherwise, no one would see his work in person. So we just rented a gallery and filled it with his paintings.

and then, and people just came. It was like in Manhattan, so people just walked in. And it was like, basically his first show or solo show. And he got to interact with people, and everyone that talked to him were like, wow. Like, you know, I look at the images and they look bonkers, but then I talk to him, and now I really have to think about it. Yeah. It's a fucking fascinating one.

What other types of people similar to him have you talked to? talk to or interviewed. Right. So he's sort of the most, the person who's, his most experienced is supernatural. So there's, you know, I've had, I've done a short and working on a feature about cryptozoologists, those who study animals that most likely don't exist, or, you know, that are hidden. Yeah. Yeah. It just stands for, it's the study of unknown or hidden animals. And so Bigfoot falls into that. The Loch Ness monster falls into that. And then animals that were once extinct and maybe could still be alive. So like the Tasmanian tiger,

or there's, have you heard of the Selecanth? No. That was, that was a fish that they thought. Selea? Seleacanth. Yeah. Okay. It was a fish that they thought when extinct millions of years ago.

And then just, you know, decades ago actually found it still alive and still, you know, thriving populations of it. It looks wild, like this wild prehistoric fish. So that would be considered like a cryptid, what they study. And then it goes as far as there's like one called the Mongolian deathworm, which is sort of in between. Do you ever see that movie tremors? Oh, of course. Yeah.

So it's sort of like mini or like sandworms from Dune. It's like these many versions of that that spit acid. It's one of the most terrifying animals in all movies. Yeah. And so these Mongolian like, you know, yak herders and desert nomads claim that they see these death worms. They're not that. They're like maybe like that. Oh, okay.

And, but they, they can like paralyze you, spit acid, electrocute you. Wow. Do psychic things. So that's like far on the,

on the heart to believe end. And then there's, there's some that like, you know, we do find creatures that we didn't think existed. Yeah. I find it. I love the,

the whole, I love the UFO subject. But when I talk to people this, um, about UFOs, I, I often find that they also believe in Bigfoot. Yes.

And then it kind of, just ruins it for me. You know. There's factions, though. There's some that believe they're connected, that Bigfoot is an interdimensional being. Right. Yeah, and then there's the real cryptozoologists.

They treat it like zoology, you know, like it's a science. And some of them are actually like primatologists. And they hate when people connect like UFOs and Bigfoot. Because to them, UFOs are the crazy, stupid thing. And Bigfoot's the real thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot, I've heard of that, like, like flying saucers and UFO sightings being directly correlated with Bigfoot.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's odd. It is. Yeah. And then, um, uh, I also did a short talk about a conspiracy theorist and now working on a feature doc about, you know, a group of conspiracy theorists. And, and that's another kind of. That's another guy that was like really, really nice guy seemed like.

Definitely. And another guy named David. He was named David. Yeah. And an artist. Yeah. artist yeah synchronicities man exactly and he um so he that's you know i i i'm not like really interested with the unraveling the conspiracies that he was interested in it was more

unraveling him and his beliefs in his psychology because you know his the conspiracies in that they were like so out of this world right like you know no children died at san die at san die hook school shootings and you know everything is a false flag and um you know like mind control stuff um which a lot of it you when you when you break it down a lot of that stuff has precedent a lot of it's come true yeah like mk ultra right um there have been false flag events like golf of tonk and start the vietnam you know war and and so and like edward's known with all the surveillance so it it's easier to understand why people fall down those rabbit holes because You know, the government's always been lying to us in the most outrageous ways.

But then it's taken to a level where, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, the Jews are injecting us with microchips and drinking baby blood and all that. And it's like, oh, well, yeah. What do you think it is about people that draws them to those crazy conspiracies? Is there a commonality that you found between all those people? Yeah. I think one is that we all, there's a lot of chaos in the world. More and more so it feels that way because we're aware of everything that's going on. And that's scary.

And it helps to try and bring order to that chaos. So if you, if all this horrible shit is happening, like, you know, the Travis Scott concert. And you're like, why? Why is that happening? It's more scary for some people to think that that just has. happened, you know, that it was a mistake and it was random versus this was a planned event, you know, and people are controlling all of this. And so everything bad that's happening, these are people that are controlling it. And so there might be a way to break free of that

control, or I know this secret knowledge, and I won't be affected by this. And so I think that helps, especially when it's a little different in this country, because it's, You could say like conspiracy theories rose when religion fell in a lot of places, because religion was another thing that sort of brought order out of chaos. But in the United States, you know, belief in religion hasn't fallen. It seems to be increasing. Not in Florida. I don't know where you're there.

Not in Florida. Not on the coast. Inland, it's probably big. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Our god is Donald Trump down here. Right.

It seems like it. And then the people that, so I think anyone can fall into that belief, but the people that go really deep into it, I think then there's something psychologically that's going on. And it could come from, you know, there's studies that certain people have had trauma. And then that leads them to be suspicious of authority figures, because maybe that trauma was caused by a parent or a teacher,

and then it leads you to have distrust for any authority or authority figure, and usually the largest form of that is the government. And so that trauma makes you suspicious and suspicious for the rest of your life. And then there's this thing called apothenia, which is it's our faculty to, it's related to our faculty to see patterns in the world. And so that's a good thing. you know, especially when you're like a hunter-gatherer,

and you're figuring out, like, is that a deer or is that just leaves? Or a saber-toothed tiger trying to kill me. Yeah, exactly. But when it goes into overdrive, and especially in our culture where it's not as important, you can start seeing patterns in places that it doesn't, that don't exist. And that spectrum goes into paranoia. If you go to the extreme end, because you know, everything has meaning and there's no randomness. but interestingly that's also the spectrum towards like creativity because like for example apparently

like da Vinci was had big time apophonia he would see you know in in the grains of wood he would see like whole scenes and then to him yeah and that could be like a painting um but if you take that too far then you know it's like face in mars or jesus in the toast yeah that goes into overdrive and and it seems like a lot of these people have that as well and and similar with like the numerology, you know, like, like Gametria, it's like where everything has numerological significance and can be broken down via numbers. Yeah. It's similar.

Hmm. Do you, do you notice any commonalities with, like, people who were just lonely? Yeah, that too. Yeah. Because what I've noticed, I just interviewed this guy who did a documentary about QAnon. Okay. Who's the guy? Cullen Hoback.

Oh, yeah. And from what he gathered, or what I gathered, we talked about it from like the people that are like balls deep into this deep state satanic pedophile ring. Yeah. It's just people that just lack a sense of community. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And that, I would say that is a big part of it.

And it's also where I think. think a lot more of the, like, hateful conspiracies come into play, because if you take David as an example from, from my doc, he... David Deed's? Yeah, David Dees. Okay. Dees Nuts? Yeah, D's Nuts.

He had no IRL interactions. He was basically a hermit. He'd maybe go to the grocery store once every two weeks or something, and he had one friend in town who was also a conspiracy theorist. And so all of his interactions were just, like, online on Facebook and, in his... YouTube comments. And as you know, it's a lot easier to

start to marginalize people, to think people are idiots, and to be mean when it's only online. And your world gets really small. Even though the internet is big, your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller because you're only interacting with the screen. And just your group.

You're like ever-shinking group. And so when people, like me and my, you know, cameraman went out there to meet him. It sort of like blows his world open. He's like, because I'm Jewish and he's just like, oh, you're a nice Jewish person. Like, you're not trying to, you know, control me. Yeah, he had a lot of anti-Semitic imagery in his artwork, right? He did, yeah.

And why was that? So he would just say he's not anti-Semitic. He's, like, anti-Zionist, which he didn't even know what Zionism was. but it's you know it's it I think he's just influenced by everything that comes before him and in beyond behind every conspiracy theory online it's like pretty much the Jews once you you know keep on it's for most of them yeah even even if it's not like expressly um stated it's it goes back to the whole like that protocols of the elders of Zion which is this like famous forgery from Europe in like the I don't know like the 1900s or 1800s maybe even goes before that that was this fake document that was basically saying written as if it were the Jews that they want to control the world. And so it was taken as being real. Wasn't there also something, the whole like Satanist baby eaters started back then too. It did blood libel.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I think that stuff. And that was always just because the Jews were the other, they were the other in Europe, you know, the marginalized group that would never assimilate and had strange rituals. and they were from a far off place, and they looked a little different, but they looked just, you know,

the same enough that they could, you know, sneak into our society. And so that's where it seemed to start and never have been able to shake that, especially in the conspiracy world. But, you know, meeting David and him meeting us, it was just like, oh, wow, you know, you know, nice normal guys are in my life now.

And I can talk about things that aren't conspiracies, and he just sort of like lit up and wanted to talk about his bunnies and his cats and, you know, art and and not talk about conspiracies. And yeah, he seemed like a completely different person. Yeah. How long does it take you to do something like that? That documentary you done him. That was like a 15 minute short. Yeah, that, that, um, so that was another like self-funded thing.

So it's like you just go there and you try and shoot as much as you can. And so we only really had a couple days to shoot with him. We wanted to go back, but he. He died while I was editing. Yeah, and he didn't hint that he was sick. So I had no idea if I had known why I would have, like, showing him stuff and tried to go out and film with him again. So the editing part took like a year just because, like,

I didn't know what to do with it. How did you find out that he died? I just saw his obituary online. Yeah, I was just searching him to get some, like, image reference of his work. And then it showed up in the obituary. and yeah he died two months after we filmed with him and he alluded to like very offhand that he might have had some cancer

but that he cured it with by drinking baking soda because you had read on YouTube or watched a YouTube video it was like you can cure your cancer by if you make your body alkaline enough and so he just he never went to the doctor and he also had like a like an e-meter like a Scientology machine yeah it was called it looks just like one but it's different. It's called the Rife Machine.

And it basically works on the principle that every, like, virus and bacteria and parasite operates on a certain frequency. And if you, like, tune another frequency into that frequency, then it kills it all in your body if you hold onto these tubes. And so, and, I mean, he got hoodwinked into buying. Oh, this is it. There's thousands of dollars. Really?

And the person who sold it to him, hoodwinked him into buying like 10 of them so that he could resell them which he was never able to sell any and David was poor so he just went into debt is super sad. Did you, are these things, what are they used for?

Are they... Nothing. They're just bullshit machines? I mean, I would say so. Maybe I'm wrong. Rife's world. Yeah, but it's it doesn't seem like there's anything to it.

And in it he's like, he's using and he's like, and I don't even feel a thing. Yeah. Where do you think he learned about something like? Is this something like he found on YouTube or like Reddit? Likely. Yeah. Not I,

he didn't really go on Reddit except to look at his own. There was a subreddit about him called Deas Nuts. Oh, Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he would go on that subreddit. So basically they would, it was really popular. It was like, now there's like 15,000 people in the subreddit.

And, um, wow. They would just post his art and make fun of it, you know? Um, and, but it was super active, like to be like, you know, 30, 50 comments on these paintings. And he would go on to read them because it was the only place he could see people like talking about his work. And so even though they were calling him like schizophrenic and crazy on there, he still like got a kick out of it. And he would, he would make like burner accounts on Reddit and like argue with the people. What was the he, you asked him about like marriage or relationships.

He said he got poisoned by something. Yeah. So he, you know, he had never apparently. had a steady relationship or in his adult life. And his reason was that he had been doing airbrushing as his job. You know, he would do like big billboards and, you know, movie posters and stuff, which was all a lot of it was done through airbrushing then. And he never wore a mask.

And it's super, it's like heavy metals, you know, aerosolized, that you're breathing in, that go, you know, that gets into your brain tissue. And cadmium was the major. one. Cadmium. Yeah. And so when he told me that, he said, he said, I got poisoned and, like,

I had neurological damage from the cadmium. And he was sick for, like, years from that and never really fully recovered. And that was, like, the prime of his life. And it fucked him up enough that he, his career never recovered and he never was able to, you know, have these lasting relations. It didn't, like, make total sense.

But I started looking up cadmium poisoning and the effect on the brain. And there was a lot of, links to schizophrenia of it causing schizophrenic-like symptoms. And when he got poisoned, that was also around the same time that he fell into these conspiracies and getting really deep into them. And before that, it didn't seem like he was like, no, I never even had any, I never thought about conspiracies or any of this stuff.

Like he was into UFOs and that sort of thing, but it seemed to coincide. And so maybe, you know, I drew like a thin link to maybe this neurological damage thrust him into like the deep world of conspiracy. Right. But, you know, I shouldn't even be making that link because I'm not have any kind of qualifications to do that. But it's like, it's what I saw. Now, did you notice any like personality traits that were similar with him and people like, David, hug the other David? No.

No similarities. Not really. Oh, yeah. No, not really. I mean, they're both, I guess one thing, like the cryptosuologists and these people, they are, tend to be more introverted and a little more hermit, like, and spend a lot of time with themselves and self-reflecting as well. But then again, those are also, like, you know, people in history that have had, like,

mystical experiences are oftentimes, you know, people are self-reflective and they go on these journeys alone and, yeah. And you just find, like, ever since you started talking to these people and filming them, you're just, you're constantly drawn to these types of characters. Yeah. Yeah, with beliefs that make other people want to write them off immediately. Like, if there's someone that, that someone else, or most people would just say, don't waste your time talking to this person.

They're crazy. I want to really dig in and be like, are they? Or is what they believe really crazy? Why do they believe it? Maybe if we figure that out, we can understand more about ourselves, especially with conspiracies because we have to learn how to have a dialogue about this stuff. And with these people, now in our country, more than any other country, it's just such a split.

And people are digging in on both sides. and there's like no cross-talk at all. And even in the same families, you know? Yeah, well, it's a problem with algorithms, right? Sure. When you start talking about one thing, it kind of just like, they hoodwink you into one little group of people and there's no outside perspective on, like,

sites like YouTube and Twitter. It just kind of like feed you all the same shit, you know? So curious if Facebook didn't exist where we would be at. I know, right. God. And then, you know, on top of that, which was something I talked to Cullen about, is the whole censorship thing, how YouTube and Google, especially, and

Twitter, they censor a lot of the conversations around the conspiratorial stuff, and it pushes those people to the chans, like 8chan and 8 Koon, pushes them to Reddit, and then Bit Shoot. And then bit shoot, yeah. And then once they get banned off these big websites, like Twitter, it just makes them more emboldened to stand by

their, whatever it is they believe. Yeah. And they push it even harder because they feel like they're the one that's, you know, got the boot on their neck. Right. Which is fascinating how all these, you know, the whole, uh, Q thing blew up from that, you know, is when, is when, um, the whole Q thing got banned from Reddit and it pushed it to the chance, which is, which is essentially, if you follow the timeline, what blew it up, you know,

into this massive mainstream thing. Everyone thinking that Donald Trump was some superhero that was going to take down these evil cabal. And still do. Yeah. And they're still waiting for JFK Jr. to come back. Oh, yeah.

In Dallas, you know. And his, yeah, his, uh, his, uh, his, uh, his, uh, memorial is the shape of a key, the letter Q. Yeah. And, and, uh, oh, man. They have a vigil, vigil for him still in, like, there was some, they were waiting for him, I think, like a week ago. And really?

In Dallas? Yes. Yeah. For waiting. Did you go there and film it? I didn't. No, I, I did not. But the, that Q and, you know, QAnon anonymous podcast, they, they, they, they, they

had someone there, I think, yeah. They did? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I bet that, I bet you would have caught some interesting characters there. Yeah, yeah. I feel like the whole, I've stayed away from the, the Q-verse, and even the, like, the cue verse and the sort of more political conspiracies because everyone else is covering that,

like Vice and, and other, you know, TV channels and websites and stuff. So I'm less interested in the more current affairs. Have you seen the HBO documentary? You know, I haven't. Oh, my God, dude. Yeah. It reminds me so much of your work. Uh-huh.

It's like, it's so, it's, it reminds me the same type of people, you know, these outcasts. Yeah. The outcast, the people that, you know, the lone, you know, have no sense of community. You don't have a lot of, you know. It's, it's sad, but it's so fascinating at the same time. You know, and here, like, in this area, it's like you're, I'm right in the middle of it. There's so many people like that in Florida. Yeah.

It's just. I mean, I'm in Texas. I've never been to Texas. I've been to Texas. I've, like, like, like, like. I've been to the airport. I've never been outside the airport. Yeah.

I mean, I'm in the Austin bubble. Okay. So you're in like the Silicon Valley of Texas? Yeah, it just seems like, like, you know,

other cities I've lived. Like, I used to live in like Miami and Fort Lauderdale. Did you really? I did. Yeah. And Seattle and,

you know, Toronto and, you've been all over the place. Yeah. Like liberal cities and, and Austin's like that, but like when you leave. Alex Jones lives there,

doesn't he? Yeah, exactly. Which is funny. Yeah. And he's funny. likes it, you know. Well, yeah, of course. He loves it, you know, he loves me on all those podcasts that are in Austin.

Exactly. And he just got, didn't, I saw on the news today that he got charged or he got pledged or he got. Doesn't look good. He's guilty for the Sandy Hook thing, right? Doesn't look good. I know a filmmaker who, she just, she's, she's rapping her movie on him, her doc. Oh, really? Yeah, Alex's War.

She was embedded with him for like a year. What? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like working, like, working, like. Doing her documentary with his permission? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. She did that doc, that feel win, no GF, I don't know, TFW, no GF, but in cells. I haven't seen that. Yeah. And so she kind of was in that community and got access to Alex. And he was cool with it. Yeah. I don't know the whole story, but yeah.

Okay. Is it, have you seen that? the final? No. You haven't seen, because it's wrapped it, right? Yeah. Okay.

It's like, it's going to be in between. It's not, it's going to be sort of like both sympathetic and, uh, showing him for how he, not just, not just like a hit piece,

trying to make him look like a piece of shit. I think that's the only reason why, you know, she's human, yeah, yeah, have to film him. No. I've seen him.

Yeah. Just going crazy at, uh, uh, uh, like Barton Springs, or sorry, the, the,

at the start of COVID, you had to have, like, a reservation to use the trail. So it wouldn't get too crowded. And Alex just showed up to go walking there. And he didn't have a reservation. And he just, like, lost his mind on the, like, poor park person, just this kid who was like, I'm sorry. I can't let you in. Yeah. And he was just, you know, ranting about.

And you saw him just. Yeah. Berating some kid. Wow. It's on YouTube, too. Wow. Yeah. Have you followed the Bohemian Grove thing?

Yeah, I mean, that was kind of great. I thought that was fun. That was, you know, before Alex Jones was, like, had sort of picked aside politically. He hated all politicians, it seemed like. And, you know. Seems like he's back there now. Oh, really? Okay.

Just from, like, lately, I've seen him on a couple podcasts. He seems like he's changed his tune on, you know, he used to be, like, hardcore, like, Trump guy. Now he's, like, anti-Trump again. Okay. He changes with the wind, I guess. Yeah. I mean, and everyone seemed to hate Bush back then. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that documentary that he did was pretty fucking cool that he did way back in the day. It's on YouTube. Yeah. Huh. So are you working on anything right now? Yeah. So the David Dee's piece got me hired to co-direct a feature length doc where there's going to be maybe like, let's say, like,

conspiracy theorists that were just going to sort of live with. and do these intimate portraits of, like conspiracy theorists, people who are ex-conspiracy theorists, family members of conspiracy theorists, and then intertwine that with, like, experts, you know, like historians, psychologists, neurologists who will give context to why, basically, like, why we believe, why are conspiracy theories on the rise, etc., then working on a feature-length doc about Cryptozoologists, so the people that study Bigfoot and the Lochness Monster and all of those. I had done a short doc that helped to inspire this. And then working on a docu series, that's about folklore, like bizarre folklore.

And Telosur bust, the one about Mount Shasta, that's that sort of like our pilot in progress for that one. Okay. Yeah. Telosur bust. Yeah. Explain that one for people who aren't familiar. Yeah.

So there's a town in northern California called Mount Shasta. It's a really small town like 3,000 people, but it's known for this majestic mountain that rises up into the sky that you see from miles and miles away, and you see it, and it's just like, wow, this mountain is striking and it sort of calls you to it. But most people just drive right by. And don't realize that in the town,

at the foot of the mountains, a large percentage of the people that live there believe that there's a hidden city underneath the mountain called Telos, and it's inhabited by what they call ascended masters, which are sort of these perfect beings, immortal beings, that maybe were once human,

and they live in this amazing crystalline, interdimensional city. Yeah, and they're, you know, they escaped, you know, Lemuria and Atlantis when they sank, a handful of them had escaped to Telos through the inner earth network of tunnels that exists. So they say, and they ended up underneath Mount Shasta. And so there's a whole spectrum of beliefs there.

Like there's a religion that popped up called the I Am activity that is based out of there that has their own side of beliefs. There's the people that kind of somewhat worship the Ascended Masters. and then there's those that just they want to like get into telos and like think it's a physical city and they look for the door on the mountain and some claim that they've found the door and that you can access city others it's it's more like a spiritual place so they'll lead you into it through meditation or chanting and so it's this whole but imagine like it's a whole little town of people that that all sort of believe that that this thing exists this sort of metaphysical thing exists. under the mountain. Yeah, and so it's a wild place and there's, and there's, for a town that size, there's like 10 crystal shops and they're all like totally busy inside.

People just buying crystals and other things. And everyone you meet is like, or almost everyone you meet is, is super fascinating, interesting character as their own story about how they got there and why. It's funny when you go to those like weird little, like remote town, In these random places around the country, you'll find these types of characters.

Sedona is another. I haven't been there, but. Sedona? Yeah. And in Florida, there's Casadega. And that's a whole, that's a city that's, that's all, like, spiritualists and mediums. So, really? Yeah, yeah, and psychics.

And so it's like, it's a tiny town inside another town, but it's the, like, highest percentage of spiritualists and mediums. And so if you really want to get a reading or like talk to a dead loved one, you know, like you want to talk to your great grandma, you go to Casadega and you can talk to your great grandma. Really? Yeah.

Do you know what part of Florida it is? Yeah, it's central north-ish. I think it's near. My geography is not 100%, but it's nearer to like Orlando. So it's not that far from here probably. Okay. Yeah.

I'll have to look it up. Yeah, yeah. We want to do one of our episodes there. Okay. Yeah. Have you ever talked to a medium or anything like that? I'm not, not really. I haven't had a serious conversation with psychics, yes, but not someone who channels the dead.

Right. Yeah. You have talked to psychics, though? Yes. What is your experience with psychics? I talked to this man who's known as the greatest living psychic or the, he's like the most scientifically studied psychic. his name's Sean Harabance he's almost 90 and I found out about him because I'm working on another little short

doc about this this scientist in Canada who he was made famous by his God helmet experiments so he designed a helmet that stimulated your brain with magnetic fields and and created like the God experience and he also he studied he's a very he was he died he's a very reputious scientist and fairly well respected and he he had this psychic Sean Harvance into his lab to study his brain to try and figure out like what is going on with this guy and also to run studies where he would give psychic readings of people

in a he would do a scientific study designed around this and the accuracy was pretty like statistically astounding so he told me to go meet with this guy and he lives out he lives outside of houston so I just drove and met him and as soon as I walked in the room he he asked me how I was doing like post breakup and I had just broken up

with like a girlfriend of three years Really? Yep and then he started asking me about my work shoots that I was working on and there's no way because I like these are shoots that I haven't even shot yet and he's like oh yeah so you're going to Africa

and like crazy shit like just as soon as I walked in the room and I was just like oh wow um because I you know I'd never had a reading or even necessarily where was this again in outside of Houston okay and the problem is he um he he he he's like Trinidadian and Indian and his accent is like almost indecipherable like I understood just half of what he was saying it was really hard to understand him and he's super old not in good health and so I was meeting with him to see if I would

want to film with him but yeah it was wild and he's had um so pretty much every past president or administration has consulted him and he had he was showing me like the official documents like whatever white like with bill Clinton you know and Bill Clinton's asking him about he's advising him on like soybean

future prices like crazy shit yeah yeah he's got he has correspondence with all these past presidents and the only one of you know probably since like Reagan that he hasn't consulted was well in Biden I doubt he has

but was uh was Trump so Trump was the only one but he and apparently you remember Trump don't have time for that shit do you remember Corey Lewandowski Trump's he was like Trump's campaign manager and then yeah he was Trump's campaign manager and then he like shoved some like

a female reporter in an event and like bruised her arm and then he was out Is he live in Florida? No, that was Roger Stone. Oh, no, and you're thinking of this other guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not him. Okay.

But anyway, so Corey, he... Look that guy up he's talking about. Yeah. What's his name? Corey Lewandowski. Corey Lewandowski. So Sean Haribans told me, I don't have proof, obviously, but that Corey Lewandowski reached out to him and was like, well, you know, Trump wants a reading.

We want Trump to get a reading. And Sean Haribance basically was just like, yeah, I'll give him a reading if he goes and sees like a psychologist. or something because like something's not right in his head. Before meeting him? Before meeting him. Oh, man. Yeah, so that's the guy.

Okay. Yeah, so he didn't want to give Trump a reading basically. Oh, I wish he would have. Yeah, would have been. Could you imagine being able to film that? I know. Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, his, I read a bunch of the studies that, I mean, he was studied at like, I think like Caltech or just some like, you know, real serious. educational institutions and he some of his like his hits like his his you know psychic hits were like trillion to one odds yeah yeah but then other times like with a lot of this phenomena it's hard to reproduce consistently other times he was just like as good as chance you know so it wasn't like every time he would he would be able to read someone accurately but other times it was just like scary how accurate he was well was he still alive he's still alive look him up Real quick.

Yeah. How do you spell his name? Sean S-E-A-N and then Haribance is H-A-R-R-I-B-A-N-C-E. Haribance, okay. Yeah. So one of the things I'm coming back to me now. This guy. I mean, he's very intense looking.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what he looks like now. Yeah. The gray hair. Really nice guy. And Houston. Yeah.

And so he didn't, he had, he didn't even learn to read or write until like in his, in his, like, teens because he had a severe learning disability and also he um he has no his brain has no geospatial faculty so if he walks out of his house he has no idea where he is like he's lost really immediately yeah like he has he just doesn't know where he is in space basically like directionally yeah and there's um when they had him in the MRI there was like it looked as if he had some kind of brain damage in certain areas and so you know the the lay theory is like that you know damage in one area could lead to some kind of ability enhancement in other areas uh huh yeah i've heard i've heard things similar to that with like people who have had lots of brain trauma right yeah like they

somehow become like excel in some area of their life whether it be like like business or whatever whatever it is, or sports or. Uh-huh. Amazing at math. Yeah. Oh, that's so weird. Yeah.

So does he not leave his house? Not really. I think, well, with his wife. He has his wife. So she always has to be with him. Okay. Yeah. And he's so old now.

I don't think they, you know, do much. So did you end up filming with him at all? No. Mostly because I can't understand. I can barely understand him. That's the problem. And I, like, so to interview him. You can, but it's just the interview with him.

I don't know what he's, half the time. know what he's saying to me and I don't know if he's answering my question and and so maybe his wife was there but it's yeah that's a tough one and also a tough one to make like how do I make that look interesting because all he does is sort of just sit at home and his home is you know it's not remarkable and yeah that's one of the cool things about your doc like the first one the first uh what was the first one with david d's like the you're just confined to like his trailer but you fucking made it look so sick with all

all of the shots that you made. And even when it comes to like, you showed the, uh, the montage of him creating that one piece and you had like the, the wide angle just doing a 180 to him. That was so cool. Yeah,

we had, we put a 360 cam up. Oh, really? Between him and his computer and we just like, in post was spinning the camera. Circling it. Yeah.

Wow. That was fucking cool. Do you do any of the cinematography yourself? Are you just strictly directed? I do a little. That one was, was shot by my, my buddy Cody Cobb.

He's like an amazing photographer. And basically like, If I can, like, he did that as a favor. If I can't afford a DP, I'll just shoot it myself. But I always want to hire a real cinematographer when I can. Like, Levin Saucers, that was shot by, or most of it was shot by the guy who did Napoleon Dynamite, who shot Napoleon Dynamite. What was? What was that?

No, the David Huggins one. Oh, oh, okay. Oh, I didn't understand. I thought you said a Levin Saucer. Love and Saucer. Yeah. So the guy who shot Napoleon. Dynamite shot that?

What? Yeah. That's fucking wild, dude. That was another one that was shot fucking amazing. And the way, also, like, I noticed the way, like, you, like, that you guys, like, spliced the B-roll. Like, I love the way you cut those things. You know what I mean? Like, first of all, you started it with, like, just, I was raped or I lost my Virginia to do an alien when I was 17 years old. And then it just, like, cuts to him, like, in a fucking valley or something.

Like, it's so cool the way you did that. what I was about to say before I went into that what was we're talking about psychics when I first had Mike Cleland on his stories about like owls and UFOs like the synchronicities of you know how whenever there's owl sightings there's UFO sightings and his theory is that

when people see these owls what they really are as aliens sort of using some sort of sort of, uh, some sort of like visual mind trick to making you think it's an owl. So you don't think of it as you, you don't remember you saw an alien.

You have this implanted memory of seeing an owl. Um, and the book, his first book, Messengers is just basically hundreds of different accounts, like the most famous accounts of these, these things happening, these situations happening.

Um, and then he, he goes into, you know, he started telling me that he's seen multiple, he's been seeing psychics this psychic, I went to that psychic. I've been seeing this psychic.

I went to that psychic. I've been hypnotic regression here. I've been in hypnosis hundreds of times and starts talking about all these psychics and I'm like, whoa, like, first of all, I'm like deeply skeptical about psychics. Yeah. So he starts like talking about his like unwavering belief

in mediums and psychics and he sort of lost me there, which is the same thing with Bigfoot. When people start talking about UFOs people, they start talking about Bigfoot. I kind of like lose it. Yeah. I think with psychics, what I think is like a lot of these things, 99.99% of it is not real.

And maybe, you know, not necessarily that the psychic is a scam artist, but that they're just, you know, saying what's coming to them. Or they are scam artists. But that there's like enough there and enough evidence that that that point, 0.0001% like something is going on. It's like, you know, are you familiar with the remote viewing phenomenon? Yes, those experiments. A little bit.

Yeah, so that, you know, government program that lasted 20 years, many millions of dollars put into it that had results. Who was the guy, the billionaire who did that, who like put a bunch of money into that? Oh, Bigelow. Bigelow. Yeah, yeah. So he, I don't know if he did, I don't know if he specifically put money into the remote viewing. he put it into the, like, UFO stuff.

But for the remote viewing, that was just like Pentagon, CIA money. Yeah, and once the Freedom of Information Act, once they were able to get those documents through that, it painted a picture of this whole program, and the people who ran the program at Stanford were able to write about it and have written books about it in all of the studies that they did and that were presented to the military were laid bare. And it was like, there's, you know, there's stuff. there that that even in their own report was like it was statistically significant and there were some

hits that were like sort of impossible to to describe in any other way and so I do think that especially with like psychological stuff this like the sigh as they call it that there's something there that and it doesn't have to be like that it's woo-woo or like magic it's just we don't even really understand consciousness or how consciousness works so it it could just be something something we don't understand, you know? It's like a sense that we have that's incredibly rare that some people can tap into sometimes and, you know, see at a distance and that we just, you know, simply don't understand what's going on there.

And so that, I think that's, that is pretty interesting and, like, could be real. But that's still pretty far from, like, a psychic telling you about, you know. what went on in a past life or yeah yeah you think some people are just born with just like like say there is another like parallel dimension to us like some people are just born with a better comprehension of that they can they can they can they can see it more than other people can or they have better access to it whether it is just like some sort of genetic thing that they're and with their brain and with something that we don't understand, like a genetic consciousness?

Maybe some are more predisposed to it, but with the whole remote viewing program that the government was funding, the point of that one was that they could teach anyone to do it. Okay. And that, so they would just teach people that didn't seem to have any ability. And that was the point of it,

was that they could train what they called the psychic spies to, to like, it was all to like spy on Russia. Right. You know, during the cold, war and then the cold war ended they're like well we don't need psychic spies anymore and we also have you know satellites right right right that are better at it so um how many do how many people successfully did like were able to do remote viewing i want oh it was a it was an all right number

there was like you know a handful that were really good at it like that consistently pretty good but i'll i'll um there's a great book just called mind reach mind reach yeah that's that is like sort of details the program and the guy who one of the of the guys who ran it, he lives in Austin, Texas. Really? Yeah. So I want to try and he's like, again, another guy who's like 90 who I need to try and get before he. Dude, these like these, these films that you make, they have like so long to make.

Like especially with like David Huggins. You said three years worth. Yeah. Yeah. I have similar experience doing stuff like that. Before I started this, I was, I did a lot of like similar types of like docu series stuff. Uh-huh. And my experience with it is like, just like you explained, like the first time you visit, like the first time I visited this one group of local fishermen around here.

I did a similar documentary about commercial fishing and like the people like the lowest level, like the deck hands. And we met with the first guy and it was like, holy shit, we just like discovered another universe. You know, we're going to go down this rabbit hole and we filmed for, we filmed it for like six months. and then I sat on all that footage for like three years before I even touched anything, started editing anything. It was just such a daunting idea to edit and package all of that shit. Yeah. And eventually I don't know what it was, but I just like sat down and started going through it.

And then once I got like a certain percentage cut, I was like, okay, now I can start like taking bites of this thing. Yeah. And eating the whole thing. Yeah. Like I sat on the Huggins, my first Huggins footage for like four years. Really? I didn't touch it. I didn't look at it.

I was just like, I can't motivate myself. I don't think it's going to be good until I finally like I cut just like a little thing out of it to show people. And then that was the motivation to get into it. Like cut a little teaser and show people. Get the like the real world excitement. Exactly. And it sort of makes it real. Yeah.

I mean, put some music to it. Yeah. And it's like, okay, now I'm going to do it. And that's, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's basically also what I learned from, because I worked in ad world to before this and still kind of do. And that was like a good skill to learn is like packaging something and making a thing that people will actually watch without turning away. Did you now when you come up with these ideas to film guys like this, did you just sort of like have the idea and you want to like fund it yourself until you can sort of like figure out how someone else? can help you fund it and make it better,

or do you just want to put it out on the internet and just see what happens? Yeah, it depends. The great thing about docs, making docs is like you can just start. It's always good to, you know, plan and think first, but you can, you can just, I can just go with a camera and audio. It's not going to be great as good as it can be, but I can do something that, like with the D's thing, that we can put online.

And, you know, I didn't wait for any funding for that one or anything. But then it did lead to, you know, interest in doing like a bigger project out of that. So with the series, with the, like, the folklore series, yeah, we shot that Mount Shasta thing as a little proof of concept. Same with the cryptosolologist stuff. I think you just sort of have to start because similar, like with the ad world, like people aren't going to get behind something unless they can already just see it. and see at least a part of it, you know? And especially now, um,

you have to show people exactly what it's going to look and feel like before you actually make it. Yeah. My, I don't, I have like a bad taste of my mouth from that whole world just because like I, I've done a lot of like short documentaries like you have, um, not recently, but when I did,

like I would have, uh, production companies calling me or like, you know, production companies that have deals with, whatever network it is. Hey, we like that.

Are you working on anything else similar to that? I just feel like they're fucking real estate brokers, you know, calling me just trying to make some money on something cool. And it's the same thing with podcasts. Yeah. A lot of, there's like executives working at production companies,

just scouring podcasts, trying to find somebody to do a show to sell to Netflix. Yeah. You know what I mean? It just feels just like a fucking... It's gross. A car dealership. Yeah.

It's pretty gross. Yeah. Gross. That's a good word for it. Yeah, it's the idea of... Maybe I'm just bitter because I've never put a documentary on Netflix. It's just sort of, it's treating it, you know, like disposable, like consumer goods, you know? Like just thinking of it as content as opposed to a story.

Yeah. Yeah. And anyways, I don't know where I was going with that, but doing this was cool because it was like, it was like doing the documentary. Yeah. But it takes, instead of three years, it takes three hours. and I don't have to shoot any B-roll or add any music to it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And also, yeah, you can, you've made what, how many? Right, exactly. Yeah. You can make hundreds of them. Yeah. In a year, you know, not one in three years. And what's that? Oh, is it good now?

All right, cool. And also, you know, pitching to someone, hey, come into my studio for a few hours is a lot easier for them to say yes, too, then I'm going to be with you for three years. of your life now? Yeah, well, you don't have to tell them that in the beginning. True. You just be like, hey, I just want to, can I come to you and film for a day, whatever? And then once they get to meet you, I'm sure it's not, I'm sure it's easier for them to let you come back.

Yeah. Like with David. And so, well, I mean, what about you with all the guests that you've had in all of their stories? Have you changed your mind on things or changed your beliefs on anything? Like, as far as what? Oh, anything. Like, have you, like, any beliefs that you had held that have now, Um, not really.

I haven't really changed any of my beliefs. I don't like, I don't know. I don't really have very many like beliefs that you could probably change for me. It's more, I'm more of just like open to learn. I've learned a lot. I can say that. I've learned a lot of things. I've gotten better at, like, before I started doing this, like, I was similar to you.

I would just go out and like and film something interesting. let the camera roll and I would just try to like package it into something like a cool music video that was weird to watch. You know what I mean? And now it's sort of like now I have to talk and like carry a conversation that's not edited. So it's more of just me like building a skill and like learning like having discipline. Right.

You know what I mean? To do like I make sure I do at least one or two of these a week and you know, you get better at certain things. I learn learning a lot. I always like kind of like I always had this like inner war going on. whether I should just do these or go make more documentaries. Because the documentary is so much more fun to watch. Sure.

Than a podcast. Yeah. You know? Uh-huh. But, um... Well, what about when you see owls now, though? Oh, I don't see owls. I never see owls.

Aliens don't want anything to do with me. Are there even owls in Tampa? I don't know. Yeah, there's a few. My mom has owls. My mom sees owls all the time in her backyard. Okay. She's these little, like, these little tiny owls.

So my mom might have some sort of connection to, uh, to you, to aliens. Yeah. But, no, I don't know. He was, like, I love having the conversations. Sure. I don't think I could say, I don't want to say the guy's full of shit. You know, he could totally, everything he's saying could be real to him. But, you know, I don't really think about it that much after the conversation either.

Like, once you do the podcast, I don't, like, I don't dwell on it and, like, and think about it a lot. I just kind of like, I remember the conversation. I remember, like, the important parts of it. I try to, I try to retain as much of it I can as I can. and try to carry it into like more conversations so I can just keep like learning more and so on and so forth and just keep having like better conversations. I try to treat these like documentaries. I try to treat these like little mini documentaries as best I possibly can. Yeah. So anyways, that's my story. I'm sticking to it. You've had such a like a wild group of people.

Yeah. Yeah. Just look at the list. I know. Nothing's consistent. It's not very consistent at all, especially when I'm trying to, like, pitch, like, a legitimate person on here who's not, like, into any of, like, the crazy fringe ideas, cultures. You know what I mean? Like, like, a, like, a, there's one guy I had on here who's, like, a, he's a doctor, like, a nutritional doctor, scientist. And then, you know, typically when I try to reach out to people, I should, like, show my credibility. Look, I've interviewed. Yeah. Well, put aside, they're all criminals and conspiracy theorists.

Right. So it's that, it gets weird sometimes when you're trying to talk to new people. Yeah. That's happened to me as. as well, like with where they're like, they'll go look on my website and be like, oh, you interview wackos. Yeah, right, right. No, I'm not going to be in your film.

Yeah, the consistency is the biggest thing for me. I was just trying to, you know, remain consistent to it. And there's a book about it too that I really like. I can't, the name is Escape the War of Art. Okay. Have you heard of that book? No, I haven't. It's all about, the guy's name is Stephen.

His last name is escaping me anyways. It's about, he's a writer, and he just talks about, like, confronting the muse. You know what I mean? Confronting resistance, right? Like, the muse is a thing you get all your creativity from and, like, flows through you. And your connection with that, with your creativity, is hindered by resistance. Resistance can be anything, whether it be, like, eating or checking your emails, going on your phone, playing video games, watching movies or whatever. And it's like, the resistance is the one thing that stands in.

in the way of you and the muse. So like every single day, if you're a creative person, the last thing you want to do is like, get up and go to work in the morning every day at the same time and have a routine. So his whole thing is, you know, always sit down every day and do your work, whether you, uh, whether you feel good or bad or creative or dry,

you know, always sit down and, you know, put in the time every single day. And that's, that's what you have to do. know that's what creativity is is is being consistent and being disciplined into in putting the time into your craft yeah you know what i mean and i was never like that before i would just be like inspirate i have to be inspired yeah yeah so even when you're not inspired when you don't have feel that calling that that that pull you know what i mean you don't feel that still sit down and push so that's what i gained you know i've made the connections between doing this and that

yeah i mean that's always been my problem and it's still my biggest problem is is is not forcing myself or disciplining myself to work. I have to be excited. And then that's why things take years to finish. Yeah. The resistance fucks you up, man. Yeah. The resistance, you'll grow old and fucking look back and just be like, God damn.

Yeah. You know, I also feel like sometimes looking back like in, like in my early to mid-20s, like that was like, I'd be like, man, that was the most creative time in my life. Like, so when I'm like made some of the coolest shit or did some of like the coolest shit I ever did. And I always wonder if that, If that sort of like connection to the muse, whatever you want to call it. It's better.

If that dwindles the older you get, you know what I mean? Your connection gets worse and worse and worse. The reception goes down. I mean, even Hunter S. Thompson, I don't know if you've ever seen his, he had a schedule. He, like, his sort of daily schedule. And even, you know, which included all the drugs that he would consume. Yeah. But even he had this set block of time where he would write no matter what.

Really? Yeah. And no matter how fucked up he was. he would sit. Really? Yeah. And it would end up being at like, you know, midnight or three in the morning or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I've actually, he's fascinating. I've been wanting to, like, go down the rattle hole of his story and his documentaries. I just haven't done it yet. Yeah. He was a fan of Florida. Was he? I think he spent some time in the Keys.

Did he really? Yeah. Have you ever been to the Keys? You're going there right now. I'm going there tomorrow, yeah, for a month. What are you doing there? I got invited to an artist's residency. So basically they give me an apartment and a studio and to just, and like a bicycle.

And for a month and like it's just a space for me to work on whatever, what I want to work on without any distractions of like home, and family. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you going to do? I'm just going to like write, work on a movie, like a screenplay idea, work on these docs,

like researching, editing. Yeah. I'm writing a podcast episode for the Q&ON anonymous guys. Oh, really? Yeah, it's going to be on Mount Shasta about the, like, yeah, the TLA Express story.

So just work on all of that or not or just, you know, I've never listened to their podcast. Is it like one of those produced podcasts with like music and editing? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love those podcasts.

They have a pretty much. And they're like serialized, right? Like they tell stories like through episodes. Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they'll be multi-parts, but actually usually it's just like, you know, they'll get into, you know, some character in the conspiracy verse. And that's what, you know, it's all about. Yeah. Those podcasts are awesome.

Yeah. But they focus, it's just conspiracy theories. Those, um, the Keys is a fucking crazy place, dude. Crazy. You never been? I've gone for like when I was a kid. Yeah. And then I went like a couple days some years ago, but never really got to experience the craziness of the Keys.

when I was I think 19 years old like when I first started between like 17 and 18 and 19 I was like that's when I first started doing like picking up a video camera and making money with it and I got hired by a really big real estate company who owned a lot of like resorts and marinas in the Keys and through knowing somebody

they hired me to do video tours of all of their resorts and marines and they owned apartment buildings everywhere. Like, not apartment buildings, but like the condo buildings. Yeah. So I was going to like big houses, condos, all these things all over the Keys by myself with a little Canon GL2.

And I was there for, I think, two and a half months when I was like 19 years old. By myself, they gave me like a little hotel room. You know, I would start in each town. So I start in Key Largo, go to Isle Marada, Marathon, the down to Key West eventually. And I was by myself the whole time living in these tiny little hotel room. and I had to give me a per diem of like 60 bucks a day and I would save it and I bought I got a little

I brought my spear gun with me and every night I would swim under the bridges because there's bridges, it's fucking bridges everywhere dude like every mile there's a bridge and I would swim under the bridges at night and I would shoot lobster illegally and I would I would stuff I would rip the tails off underwater because it's so illegal to do this

and I'd rip the tails off underwater and stuff my board shorts pockets with lobsters I go to Publix and buy corn, canned corn. And I would bake the lobster tails, eat lobster tails and corn every fucking night, dude. I've saved so much money. That was, that was an amazing adventure. But Key West specifically is a wild, is a crazy fucking town. Yeah, I just imagine, I mean, a lot of drug running history.

Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. And some, like, Cuban history. And I hear there's still a lot of illegal, like, cockfighting. Oh, really? Going on there. I wouldn't put it past them. Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of crazy shit down there. It's a fun place to party. A lot of college kids go down there and get fucked up. You should have, did you see Square Grupper? Billy Corbiz documentary. It's been a while.

It's been a while, yeah, I've seen it. You should have this guy on, he lives in Everglades City, Dave Shealy. He was in, I don't know if you saw my short about the Skunk Cape, which is South Florida's big, foot?

Yeah. Did you see that one? Yeah. What was, is it, it was on like Vice or something? No. Maybe no, no.

I think maybe you saw something else. I just had a guy in here like three weeks ago. Uh-huh. Who lives in Everglades, in the Everglades. He's like a big weed pot hauler guy. Was that Dave Shealy? No, his name wasn't Dave Shelly.

Oh, okay. What the fuck was his name? Why am I forgetting his name? Let me look it up real quick. Hold on. If you, if you, what the fuck? I feel like such an idiot for not remembering his name.

This guy. Tim McBride. Can I see his photo? Yeah. I don't know him, but he lives in ever going to say. Google, this is like a bad photo. Just Google Tim McBride. Yeah, he was like one of the biggest pot haulers in Florida.

And he got a really long prison sentence. So Dave Shealy did that stuff as well, but he's also... Tim McBride type in Saltwater Cowboy after that. This guy. Oh. Vice did a thing on him. He was like Colch Hogan. Yeah.

Yeah, so Dave Shealy is kind of like this guy, except he also, he has what's called the Skunk Cape Research headquarters. Yeah, yeah. I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to say it was on Vice I saw. I don't remember where I saw it online, but I didn't make the connection that you did it. Yeah, yeah. And so he had that history of, like, drug hauling in Everglade City, and he also is, like, stop.

titled himself as the foremost researcher of the skunk game in the Everglades. So he's like a, he considers himself a cryptozoologist and goes out there. Oh, really? But he's, he has a campground out there. That's, that's pretty, pretty weird. He's just, he's, oh, yeah, he's a character that be super fun. Are you going to talk to him on your way down there? No.

No, no. He, yeah, he, I haven't chatted with him since I've filmed with him. I'm not sure what he would have thought of. the documentary maybe he'd like it but yeah he's kind of a scary guy is he really a little bit yeah why is he just he's got like those eyes that like those sort of like cold blue eyes like you know could murder you if you say the wrong thing yeah there's a um there's a ton of fucking there's a ton of there's a ton of in here in this area of like big time cocaine and weed pot traffickers you know what i mean Like, like, just like, I know a lot of people who are in like their 50s and 60s who were just, just around here that I know who were like gone, went to prison for a long time for smuggling cocaine.

Decades. Yeah. Like a long, like just randomly. Like I'll just find out. Like I didn't even know like you. I was interviewing. Um, you know who Manny Pug is? Mm-mm.

He's like the wild. Have you seen wild boys on MTV? Ever heard of it? Yeah. So he's like, he's like the guy who, who swims down with like the giant 15 foot crocodile alligator and like levitates him. Like he puts him in. like a catatonic state underwater and then he like goes he like rides that he was the first guy to ride a giant great hammerhead shark just a crazy guy and he's originally he still lives in

Florida he was on here and I was talking to another guy who went to prison for I had a guy in the podcast who was in prison for 10 years for smuggling coke he's like oh man he quick I bet him in prison yeah he used to be a pot holler so it's just like this fraternity of drug smugglers in florida because Miami was such a fucking oh yeah a global hub for it built Miami Yeah. Yeah. It was just like a, like a retirement resort, basically, until the cocaine came through. Yeah.

It's fucking insane. Have you seen that new cocaine Cowboys documentary? Um, or the, or the latest one on Netflix? No, I just, I just saw the original. Yeah. Yeah. The original was pretty good. Uh-huh.

He's a weird way of making documentaries. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cheesy way. He did, he did that one, is it called screwball? Screwball. I haven't seen that. Yeah.

I mean either, where it's like kids that are doing the real. It's portray the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know who's another really interesting guy that I want to fucking meet? I know people who, he lives in, uh, in Miami. One of my favorite filmmakers is Harmony Kareen. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. He, um, there was this, this kind of pirate 35 millimeter movie theater in Miami for a while called Night Owl. Um, that was in a half abandoned shopping mall. Mm-hmm. And Harmony Kareen's office, like his production office was right above it. And he would sometimes like come and curate. Oh, really?

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Dude, he's got some... Have you seen Beachbum? Oh, yeah. Fucking amazing. That's Key West.

I don't know if they actually shot any of it in Key West. Oh, yeah, they did? Oh, yeah, you can tell. A lot of it's in the Key West specifically that I could remember, but a lot of it's definitely in the Keys. Some of it looked like California, but... Really? Yeah, some of it did.

Was it, maybe it was shot in California. It looked like it was all Miami and Keys. It would make sense if it was Florida. Because he lives there, right? Yeah, he lives in... Miami. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he still lives here. Yeah, a friend of mine, a friend of mine, a friend of mine, a friend of

friend of mine who's a like an underwater cinematographer who lives in quibuscane he says his kid goes the same school as harmony oh okay this was two years ago i think you told me that yeah yeah but i'm sure he has to still live there yeah he's like he's one of those weird guys you don't like hear anything from him or see anything from him in the media at all just like every 10 years he comes out with some crazy film yeah there used to be this this film organization in miami called borsht and uh and harmony would do some curation with them but he never showed up he would never really yeah he was like behind the scenes he seems like the kind of guy who would do what you're about to do and the keys just go like sit in an empty apartment for a month

and write shit. Except he wouldn't need to be invited to that residency. He'd just be able to buy. Right, he would just do it himself. Yeah. So are you supplementing all of this creative work with like commercial jobs? Kind of. Yeah, I do like docs for clients and like branded docs, you know, the buzzword.

Branded docs. Yeah. So it's like, you know. Sponsored by Old Spice. Or like Alaska Airlines will want like a dock style thing. Or like I did one for Amazon and Gates Foundation. Yeah. The deep state.

Exactly. Amazon. I love that guy's Jeff Bezos. David's Jeff Bezos picture. Yeah. That he was working on as we were. Didn't make any sense, but it was funny. Yeah.

No, all of it was just so absurd but hilarious at the same time. Yeah. Man, that's so sad that. guy died. I wonder what happened to all of his artwork. They should turn it into NFTs. They, I mean, he would have made a killing. He would have made a, and he was so poor. Like, he was just in debt living in a trailer, basically, like a double wide trailer, um, like poverty level. And yeah, he could have, I don't think he ever would have been able to figure it out. Like, he wasn't that savvy online. Some would have had to do it all for him. But this other conspiracy

theorist that, like, lives down the road from him, who's like a bigger conspiracy theorist. Um, Um, he, he inherited all of David's like, intellectual property. Really? He's got everything. Wow. He was even selling, like, David's shirts and, like, hats and stuff after he died, a little weird. That is a lot of strange.

Yeah. Is there, is there, like, one subject or person that you would want to document or do a story on, like, uh, like a fucking holy grail for Brad? Not, no, it's always, like, every day is just kind of a new, a new discovery and a new thing. So I kind of want to make one about the manosphere. You know, like, there's, you know, like, there's this whole sort of sphere of, like, men's rights activists, meninists. Oh, yeah. They're called, like, men going their own way who, like, have said no to all women in relationships, the in-cells.

And there was a conference in Orlando called the Make Women Great Again conference. And it was, and no women were involved in that. It was just these, these like men's rights activists guys who were going to teach women how to be great again. That whole world seems, like basically it's just like, and how it has exploded with the sort of far right conspiracy world too. There's a lot of intersection there. that would be a really interesting and dark one to dive into. Yeah, it's scary. Yeah.

I haven't seen the in-cell thing you were talking about. But those types of people, they seem like the most dangerous ones. They're the ones that just like blow up and shoot fucking schools up and shit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would only be like, it wouldn't focus just on those guys. Yeah. But like that whole world seems kind of ripe for, for,

getting into. It's interesting. Like the whole QAnon thing, I always thought it was like far right wing ideologically. Not anymore, yeah. Now it's the whole spectrum. Yeah. There's like yoga moms is a big part of QAnon and hippies. You know, like ayahuasca slinging.

See, I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Like vegans. It's like. It's captured everyone. Yeah. That's so wild.

Uh-huh. I had a guy, I have a guy on here who's a lawyer, and he's like a hardcore liberal. Okay. I wouldn't say like hardcore. He doesn't like go out like flaunting it. Like most people flunt their rebel flags. But he has this obsession with representing like the most extreme polar opposite of himself. Oh, wow.

Like he's representing one of the Capitol Riot people, one of the guys who was on the Capitol on January 6th. Yeah. Like the guy assaulted a police officer and he's like, he's like defending him in court. And he also, he's like defended like serial killers. He's invited like invited them into his home because they had nothing else. Like neo-Nazis who have killed people like killed people just because they were black. Uh-huh. Represented these people and just like gotten into their heads and like spent so much time with them. It's just like so interesting. I mean maybe he.

How people want to do that. Like this guy, I'm like, dude, like you need a video camera. You'd be a fucking filmmaker, not a lawyer. Instead of... But he's got way more money than most documentary filmmakers. Wow. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. There's a lot of that stuff around in Florida.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Crazy shit, man. Well, thanks for doing this, dude. I really appreciate it. Where can people follow the stuff that you do online and find more your work and do anything they can to support you? Yeah, I have a website. It's bradabrahams.net.

And then on Instagram, I'm Brad. WTF and on Twitter I'm loving saucers. That's it. Twitter is love and saucers. Yeah. Yeah. I made it for the film and then it's just become my personal Twitter. That's one more thing I wanted to ask you.

What did you do? I bought it on YouTube. How else are you distributing that one? That one, it used to be on Amazon Prime. Okay. And now Discovery, you know, there's Discovery Plus now. Yeah. Discovery channel has around.

So now they have the sort of rights to that for streaming. So you have to, you can buy it on Amazon. or iTunes or YouTube. I think on Tubey, it's free. You can just watch it. Well, we want people to pay for it. I still get money from it if they watch it on Tubeb because there's... Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, sick. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, like any streaming service, it's on and it's like four bucks to rent it. One of the best documentaries I've ever seen. Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks for creating amazing content like that, dude. You're welcome. Fucking awesome. Yeah, of course. Goodbye, World.