Danny Jones Podcast - #133 - The Deadliest Conspiracy Theory in the World | Julian Dorey

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

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Your podcast is dope. The first time I learned about you, someone DM'd me and said, you got to check out Trendafire on YouTube and TikTok. I saw your TikTok, and it was like, I was going down the rabbit hole all your videos for like an hour, I felt like. I appreciate that. And it's funny.

The world works in weird ways because you, I think you followed me on Twitter, which was the funniest thing. Yeah, yeah. I don't tell anyone about my Twitter. That's the one social media. Like, I don't talk about it on the show. No one has me there.

And you found me there. And I noticed. it and I'm like, wait a second, I had just been told about your podcast about a month before. My friend Mark asked me to check it out and I was like, this guy's fire. Like this is a great podcast. Like how fuck do I not know this? Like I pride myself on trying to know some of the great long form podcast. And so then I started, I think I watched the Roger Reeves one.

Is that his name? The pilot. And then I went back. I watched the Boostamante ones and it was so good. But I was like, that's really weird that that, you know, we didn't know about each other. and then we knew about each other, and then someone said to, like, connect. The community connected us, bro.

Very, very cool. So thank you to whoever did that. Hell, yeah. How did you get started doing your podcast? What made you want to do that? The thing is, it's fucking great. I love some of your guests. Thank you.

Thank you. And I'm looking forward to you having Jim in here. I think that would be great. But, yeah, so that's a little bit of a convoluted story. I was on Wall Street. So I came out of college and I worked in, the private bank and Merrill Lynch and so my boss

who was there a long time before me you know he managed the wealth of very very rich people so I think like the average net worth was like 80 million something like that 70 80 million and we also did work with like companies so like public companies we would do 10b5-1 plans

sometimes we do something really simple like a 401k as it just gave me an excuse to know everyone there but I did that for a few years and the way that business works is you come out of college if you're lucky enough to get into a great situation like that and I was because me and my boss got tight before I got there you know you grind like a dog and then eventually you get the offer if you make it and then you make money and so I did that and I loved my team and everything really enjoyed working with them but you don't know anything about the world coming out of college No.

You know, and I didn't, in fairness to myself, I didn't assume that. I wasn't like, oh, I know how things work. It was never like that. But there was a part of you that's like, well, I might know one or two things. You get out, you're like, no, I don't know a goddamn thing. So I started to realize, like, kind of subconsciously at first and then eventually consciously that, like, I wasn't into the work we did. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance.

With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. I just didn't like banking. It's not me. Picture me in a suit. Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, yeah, like exactly. Like that's not what it is, number one.

It's not sexy like that, if that's what you want to call it. And it's also, you know, it's an older school business. There's certainly some good with it. I will say the best part about my job, my favorite part that I did like, and it's actually what I owe understanding like a couple things about is the fact that a big part of the job was going out and meeting people, knowing everyone, especially we were up in New York City, so you're in the center of the world, right? and my job was to go out and make friends with people of all walks of life who were in different industries, doing different things.

So I had to learn like, oh, this guy talks to that guy because they do this thing. And then this type of business works. What are they working on over here? And then you start to get a picture of like, oh, here's how some things actually work. Then you do your research the whole nine. So I think that was really good. And I liked that. But I just didn't like the back end work.

It was very boring and regulated as hell. That fucking sucked. So you got to look at a lot of different types of businesses and like how different types of shit worked. Yes, exactly. That's cool. I like to call that looking under a lot of skirts. I'm going to use that. That's pretty good.

I like that. I like that. But that is precisely what it was. But yeah, so I was doing that and I got to a point, as you were asking me, like how the podcast happened. I had started to open my, brought in my horizons a little bit along the way. And I started probably in like 20, late 2017, pretty early. Actually, I started like having some side LLCs that do with people, nothing crazy. Like, not real companies, but stuff like we work on little projects.

And I started to realize, like, you know, I had always been a more creative person. Banking is not very creative in most ways. Right. That was not my cup of tea. And so I was, like, more passionate about some of the little work I would do. You know, like writing stuff, coming up with things, thinking outside the box. And so I was thinking I wanted to go towards something like that. And then it got to the point where I was going to get that offer. And I did.

And my boss, again, to this day, very close with the guy. You know, I was like, holy shit. if I say yes to this, I'm committing for the next five years minimum. Now, hypothetically, I could have said yes, collected a paycheck for three months and bailed. But, like, that'd be a douchebag thing to do. Like, I love this guy.

I'm not going to do that to him. So he was, like, saying, like, come in the inner sanctum, pretty much. So I'm like, okay, I got to say no to this, which obviously, I think he might have seen it coming a little bit, but he was still very sad, obviously. it was kind of sat for both of us, but this was later stages of the 2019. And so he said to me, he's like, all right, look, you know, you're still getting some of the salary from the company. Chill out, you know, this is going to be an industry shift for you.

Didn't know what I was going to do yet. He's like, hang here. You do good work on the back end. You make your money to pay your bills and you figure it out and we'll get you on your way. I'm like, great. So I went into the process of doing that. And probably, no, not probably. It was January 26th.

It was the day Kobe died. I remember that. No way. Yeah, it was a kind of weird thing in life. But I went to do a little media work for my friend Ty for his lacrosse company. He just wanted me to go there and, like, interview the founders afterwards. Like, pretty easy stuff.

And it was a weird day. It was Kobe died. You know, that was like a, I've never been affected. by a celebrity death. Like, even Sunday, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. It was like, even like when Whitney Houston died and who was a huge fan of,

it was like, wow, that's so sad. It was like heartbreaking. But then like, you know, you go to the next thing. The Kobe thing was weird, wasn't it? The Kobe was weird. The Kobe was weird. And I just had like the weird, because his daughter died too.

It was just a weird day. So. There's a whole chopper full of like a bunch of the teammates, a bunch of her teammates, I think. I think it was like nine people, something like that. And there was even a report. I remember that afternoon when

I was going to the job, there was, like, a report that, like, his whole family was on there. And I'm like, oh, my God, you know. There's some things that's, like, just a little bigger than everything. That was weird, because you could be, it was like, there's no way a dude like him could get in a freak accident like that. I know. You know? It's like Kobe doesn't die.

Right. Like, it's Kobe. And, dude, how weird was it the night before that they interviewed him about, what were they interviewing? Or they were interviewing? LeBron. LeBron. Was it?

LeBron passed him. The night before. They were in the night before. They were in the same arena, right? And they were like... No, but he sent a tweet. He had been in the same arena with him, I think maybe a week before. But then he sent out, like, the congratulations tweet at like 1 a.m. or something.

Oh, LeBron passed him. That's what happened. Okay. Right before. Dude, how fucking crazy is that? Just wow. That's weird, man. I can't...

Still can't wrap my head around that one. And if you would have told me that this was not going to be a top three story of the year, I would have looked at you like you were nuts. And it probably, I mean, it might be number three, but like, you know, the pandemic hit. And all this other shit and everything. Like, all this shit happened. So it's almost like it feels so much like it was so much longer ago than it actually was. But I remember that because I was at, you know, not to make it about myself at all, but it was like a weird day.

I'm like, look at us. We're doing stupid fucking media work here. You know what I mean? Like, this is just like, what even is this? and we were supposed to start, I think, at like six, and Ty looked at me because things got tight and he's like, yo, can we do this at 10? I'm like, no problem. I'll just chill. So I'm just sitting there, like, thinking about this for like hours.

Then we did it, and I didn't think anything of it. It was just, we put the cameras up kind of like this and everything, and we just did like a little, probably half hour worth of content, just going back and forth talking about his past and stuff like that for his company. and they turned at the end you know they yelled cut and they turned the lights on in the place and I didn't realize but there were like 35 I don't know 25 35 35 people something like that still there and they were all just like mesmerized I'm like what this was kind of boring I don't know what what what the big deal is but some people came up to me after and they were like coming up in my face like bro do you have a podcast and I'm like no no I don't know I don't have a podcast. They're like, you need a podcast. And I had heard this before from some people,

like, sporadically. Never thought anything of it. I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do with a podcast? Why were they telling you you need a podcast? Because we, Ty had asked me, and again, I didn't think anything of this, but he had asked me, like, for what we were going to do. He's like, hey, I want you to ask about some of the shit that I did in college, too. Because, like, I knew about that. It wasn't, like, a big deal. But, like, some stuff that, like, it was kind of surprising that you'd have this and the content, like he works with high school kids and stuff, but he'd be very open, like, with parents about some of the dumb decisions he made in the past. So I was just like, okay, like, if you want to do that, cool. And so, you know, I knew the subject matter,

because I already knew the story and everything. And we were going back and forth about it. And I guess I just, like, pressed them on it, like, in a healthy way. And people were, I guess a lot of the people sitting there had never heard this. And they were very surprised, like, this was some bullshit, it, you know, just filming a quick interview. And then they were surprised to be like a little bit entertained by it and like how deep it got. Again, we didn't think anything of it, but they did. That was the point.

And so they're all telling me this. And this is happening while it just all came together because it's happening while I'm on the job trail getting my ass handed to me because I was a banker, right? And now I'm applying, you know, my resume might look decent, but like I'm applying for a job to be like a creative somewhere. And some of these recruiters, I mean, I was going, when I tell you I was going for the bottom tier jobs, I was going for the bottom, I was going for jobs that paid $35 grand a year in New York City. Like I was not going for anything that had anything that I wouldn't have to completely prove myself. Like what?

Like what was one of the jobs? I can't even remember, man. I think I looked at like something as simple as like content manager. Like. Okay. Like ad agencies and stuff? Yes. All in marketing.

because I'm like, well, that's, I'll dip my toe in the pool over there and figure it out, right? And I'm like, I'll start at the lowest possible job possible just to get my foot in the door and I'll take care of the rest, right? So I did have some great experiences with some recruiters who were really cool, who just like, I reached out to some random senior people, just cold called them and they actually took my call. And they liked that because I wasn't unrealistic about it. But nonetheless, I'm getting in front of some of these opportunities, and I just had, like, some negative situations where people weren't even giving me the time of day. You expect that. When you're getting at every single stop, you feel like your whole life's a failure.

It's a natural human thing. So this is all happening. And then this thing happens, and people are coming up and telling me this thing. And it's this weird day where Kobe died and, like, your head's all over the place. And so I had to drive home late at night, like an hour and a half, and I just drove home in silence. and I'm very glad I didn't actually think about this because all I did was I was like, fuck it, I could die in this car tomorrow.

Like, I don't know what's going on here, but if I ever did a podcast, I'd do it right. Let me just start researching equipment. We'll see what happens. And that was it. Like, there was no, like, writing down a plan or, like, how I was going to, there was none of that. And I just started, I made it a weekend hobby.

I'd go to, like, BNH photo. I didn't know any of this shit. The one in New York? The one in Fairfield, New Jersey, is the one I would go to. It's a big one. And, you know, when we had done media work, we always had a producer there. He'd stick some mic on me, you know? Give me the thumbs up, and that was it.

You know, that's the extent of what I knew. I knew things by eye, but I didn't know how to do any of it. So I kind of learned all this stuff. And about throughout February, I made a lot of progress on the job show, and I had, like, a couple really good opportunities, potentially coming up, and then the pandemic starts to possibly hit. So I hit the order button on like all my main equipment. I think like, it might have been like March 4th, something like that.

Then that next week happens where like the whole world starts to shut down. Now mind you, I'm still working in the markets at the time. So I'm on the phone all day with clients freaking out, they're losing money, the whole nine. I forget completely that I ordered this stuff. So then the first day of quarantine, Friday, March 13th, I will never forget that. I get the notification. And it's like, all of your equipment has arrived downstairs. And I'm like, oh, my God.

Because now every job opportunity is dried up. Like, the whole world's stopping. And I'm like, I bring it up, I look at the couch, and I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do with this? This is the dumbest shit. This is a sick joke on me right now. So then, I don't know. Maybe it was like a second. Maybe it was 10 seconds.

I don't know, but I stared at it. And then I'm like, fuck it, when else am I going to do this? And my boss, I swear to God, it was like either that day or within two days calls me up and he says, hey, we're probably not going back to the office until like June.

And I'm like, okay. And he's like, you definitely just had every job opportunity dry up, didn't you? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, all right, I know you were going to leave at the end of this month,

but why don't you just like, chill and collect and then when the job market heats back up you can get out of here and I'm like sounds good to me you know so I pretty much did that and while this was going on I just crossed the chasm it was like April 1st I just had a moment and I never look back and I'm like I'm just going to build this shit I'm just going to build this I'm going to start on zero we're going to see where it goes so I spent the next five six months researching doing a whole bunch of shit building and then and I launched September 2020, and it just kind of,

it translated faster than I thought it was going to, to being able to be a guest podcast, like I wanted it to be. I thought I was going to have to do like 30 solo episodes before someone really wanted to come in. But to my surprise, I did get one person to come in on my initial, like 10 that I dropped day one.

And then I had a few really cool people hit me up, like, yo, I would totally do this. I was like, all right, let's see how long this can last. like that and then it just it never stopped the only time i did a solo was when i had covid like a year later yeah what would you what did you do on a solo podcast are you are you you're one of those guys that's good at just talking bro i can tell you can just sit there and have a conversation and just just rant right yes it's funny if you get to a moment where there's a nice rant which i might have had like one or two of those i don't know how many of those i had but i don't like it because

i like bouncing ideas out there or having someone bounce them at me me, whatever it is, and then hear the other perspective. Sometimes someone goes, 100%. Agree. Other times people go, that's dumbest fucking shit I've ever heard in my life. When you're in there, it's just the cameras and you're talking to the wall. Yeah. So, like, I understand some people like that content, and I guess they like some of the solo episodes,

but I just think it's so much better when you're talking with somebody. Right. So it was like... There's a lot of guys that are really good at doing the solo shit, though. Like, you ever see Tim Dillon do it? bro, I watch every single one of his episodes He's so fucking funny You know how hard that is?

I can't even imagine I can't imagine Now he does have been in there Yeah Which helps He laughs at everything And that makes it so much better He can be

People I think unless you've done it Don't realize that even having Just a producer in there Who can fill like a gap of two seconds of silence With a laugh It's huge Because when you are just in there alone talking You are,

it's not like in a conversation where sometimes someone can have a dramatic pause and it's cool it's like oh shit i haven't talked for two and a half seconds i gotta say something i gotta say something and you're like you don't want to over-edit it so when i i was really strict of myself i'm like no cuts of this like the only thing is if god forbid i paused for five seconds i'll cut to the second camera and we'll make it too but i didn't want to do that and so that was like it was stressful and also there was extensive research that would go into each of those because they'd be on a very specific topic, be a lot of work on that. And it's just not as fun.

So, you know, I'm glad I did it because it made me have to be good at that. And it's pretty hard to do, I guess. But, yeah, I like getting to the guest model, which is also why I liked your podcast right away, because in my opinion, there aren't, they're not a number. enough podcasts who are doing long-form conversations that are not in niche, right? Like, you have all different types of people on you. Right, right, right. All different types of people.

There needs to be way more of that. I could never figure out, like, why they're, you know, you have, like, obviously Joe Rogan is the number one podcast in the world. That's what he does from his own angle. Guy like Lex Friedman does that very well, one of Joe's guys. There's some others, like, I guess, Dax Shepard for a while. I haven't seen it in a while, but he was doing that. It was longer for him.

But there's not nearly as many as you would think, and there's a big demand for it. Yeah, most of the most successful ones are in a niche, right? I think that's the best way to, like, gain traction or to gain, like, a big following because there's so many fucking podcasts. It's just easier for them to all be categorized into their own niche. So you can watch this podcast for that, this podcast for that. Otherwise, you know, otherwise it's just kind of like you're just gaining, people, no one's sticking, right?

So if no one's interested in you, they're just gonna find, come to you for the one guest you had. And the next guest could be, you could have a fucking guy who sells cotton candy one day and an FBI agent the other day, no one's gonna come back with another next episode. Yeah, it makes it, it does make it a harder road.

So, like I look at you, you did it a really outside the box way, unplanned too, which is cool. You're a great filmmaker. You built a channel, with kick-ass documentaries. So you built an audience of people who were like, yo,

this guy's fire. And then you launched a podcast. And as you told me, there were certainly people who were like, all right, well, I'm not about this. And they left.

Right. But there are a lot of people who weren't. Yeah. So they were already there. Yeah, if you stayed. Yeah. And so you already had,

and you had credibility. Right? Like, that's a great way to do it. Mm. With me, if I hadn't gone to the short clip model to, like, entice people,

I'd be dead. Really? Yeah. No shot. That's where 100 million percent of the growth is from that. From the TikTok stuff. Yes. Really?

And it's all from that too because on YouTube. You go hard on that shit. I try. You take clips from movies. Yeah. You add music. It was, look, man, how many podcasts are there? Like 4 million now?

At least. 4 billion. Right? Active. Let's call it. Let's beat. Let's overshoot it. Let's say active.

There's two and a half million in this country. Right. Just alone. That do podcast like an episode a week, right? Right. Something like that. At least one. There's obviously some people who do like one every month.

Sure. But I'm saying like, let's call active podcast once a week to use what you just said or more. That means that this is one of the dumbest possible things you could ever do as a career decision. Because you are trying to get attention. Before the pandemic, there was 191 million people who had listened to a podcast. It's definitely higher now. I think 60% of them were weekly listeners at the time. So that's maybe it was like 125, 1.30.

I'm trying to remember these numbers. So if I'm a little off, sorry. But either way, now divide that across 2.5 million. And also look at the talent out there. Look at the people making great podcasts, doing great work. Hard to take away from that. Like, are you crazy enough to walk in day one and be like, I want to take some listeners from Joe Rogan?

Yeah, yeah, right. You're never going to do that. Yeah. It shouldn't be your mindset. Your mindset should be like, let me see if I can carve out someone wanting to possibly add me into their role with other people who happen to be great at this. Right, right. So, like, also asking people to check out a longer form podcast, it's an instant gratification world. They want to know what they're getting.

So you're already behind the eight ball, right? So what I eventually did is I looked across the board and I said, what is something that no one else is doing? and I couldn't figure it out but I'm like no one goes all out on short clips like no one makes it a production like what you would do with your documentaries

no one makes it like a work of art right like they all just like take clip drop it right there they don't even they just chop it out and post it right and they barely even chop like in between to not have silence and stuff or they'll literally

my favorite is like in a TikTok feed or a YouTube shorts feed that's 1080 by 19 where every video that someone's hitting is 1080 by 1920. They'll just like lift a 1080 by 1350 graphic from Instagram and like, boop. Yeah, people are going to watch that.

It like doesn't care about the viewer. So I'm like, this is crazy. And then like the few people who actually pulled this off are doing well. I'm like, I think I could do this. It took a while to like get to the point where I was like good at it. But that's just what I leaned into. Interesting.

Yeah, because your TikTok is like huge. You have hundreds of thousands of TikTok followers, don't you? But is the TikTok stuff transitioned to YouTube and that and all the other shit? That's my question. It did. It did. To Apple and Spotify way more than YouTube. Really?

Yes. Yes. So I knew that there was, I think about this a lot because some of it still doesn't make sense to me and there's a lot I don't know. But I did know the pre-pandemic, I want to say it was like maybe 25, 30 percent of podcast consumers consumed video so they consumed on YouTube right it's probably higher now because more people have home offices they throw it on the screen over there right and I can never figure that out because I'm like I never did that like to this day like now when I sit in the studio yeah I'll throw it on but so I guess technically I am but I'm never looking at it very rarely like

there has to be a really poignant moment like when you had the uh what was the girl's name who had the baby in jail. Oh yeah, Jessica Kent. Yeah. So, like, I remember, I had, I was doing work. I had that on the third screen over there in the studio. And then she got to a moment where she talked about when they were going to take the baby away from her in the hospital. That I turned to. Because, like, you can hear it. And she, you know, she's, she's, like, trying to not get emotional about it. Right. So, like, that's nice to be able to do that. Yeah. But I never, I was a pot, I was, I was subscribed to, like, 137 podcasts. Like, I'm a podcast head, and I never did that. So I'm like, well, these people got to be out there.

You know, they're doing it. So I could never figure out how to translate it to YouTube. And with TikTok, what would happen was I wanted people to see that this was like a legit production. So I put the link to YouTube only in there. So I didn't want to make them have to click twice. Like in the profile or in the actual post? Okay. You can't put it in the post.

Right. Okay. So my profile, I would put it. And I didn't want them to have to click to a beacon's page and then find another link. I'm like, I'm just going to give them YouTube. It says on the corner of my video. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, so I'll let them figure it out. And what I found is pretty much, like, fans, people who became fans, would come in there

and grateful for this, by the way, and they'd hit subscribe on YouTube, but that's not where they would consume it. They would go to Apple and Spotify. So I started charting on Apple, on Apple, at least, I don't know about Spotify, but started charting in the U.S. on Apple, and I still was at, at the time, I think I was at 6,000 subscribers on YouTube, and no one watched their. I had like 50 views in episodes, something like that. And then I'm like, you know what?

This is fine because we're building in one place. We'll figure it out over here eventually. And what ended up happening is YouTube shorts started to work. And then that's where I built literally, like before they started to work, which was about December 1st. I think I had like 15.5,000 subscribers. and my whole subscriber base has come from that. From the shorts? From the shorts.

Wow. Which is also, it's, I think it's all good. That's what Jessica Kent was talking about too. She was talking about the shorts. Yeah, I remember. She talked about that, yeah.

And she said that that was like, I get good discoverability there. I think she was posting like four days a week or something. Yeah. But like, you could say it's good and it's bad. I think it's all good because it gets me exposure. Yeah.

And like, I work for these clips. They're usually about 28 to 47 seconds somewhere in there. You know, some of them take 25 hours to do. Like, I go all out on them. And so, like, I know now I've seen enough data. Like, I know what the bar needs to be at to earn people's time and to earn the right for them to not skip this video. And it works.

And so the downside is that for now, YouTube, because I was in a YouTube shorts pod too. Like the company came in one of those where they like, we meet like once every other week or something, exchange ideas. It's one of the leaders of the shorts team and YouTube runs the team. And she's great. But one of the things that YouTube hasn't figured out yet

is how to classify shorts within their algorithm. And I don't, I'm getting above my pay grade here. But my understanding is that the way the algorithm works is it wants content that's all in the same length zone. Hence why you have like Logan Paul has impulsive but then he has impulsive clips. Right? A lot of these channels they do one and the other. That's because when he posts an episode that's one and a half two hours versus posting a three minute clip,

YouTube doesn't measure average watch time, I think, I think. before it measures the average, the total watch time on each. So if I watch 100% of a three-minute clip on YouTube, that's great, right? If the audience is watching an average of 100%, you have a perfect clip. That's three minutes. Now I post an hour and a half episode. Let's say you have great on an hour and a half episode where some people just click and don't watch. You have a great watch time.

You have 45 minutes of watch time on that. So you have 50%. YouTube doesn't give you credit for the fact that you have 50% on an hour and a half video and someone stayed on their app for 45 minutes. Right. Because they're rectifying it with, well, it was three. It was three over here. And now it's 45 here.

So then the numbers get fucked up. So what happens is now I built this subscriber base on YouTube, which is helped on Apple and Spotify, which is great. And it's helped on YouTube. And I have way higher numbers than I did. but I don't go into a lot of people's feeds my ultra fans like the people who are literally refreshing to like wait for the next thing that drops they all get it because they you know they have notifications on the whole nine

but most people I don't go in their feed yet because YouTube goes oh wait he posted a three hour episode don't put that one in there then I post a 30 second short oh put that one in there oh so your channel's basically like optimized for shorts yes got it But it's giving me all the exposure. Right. So like some of the shorts creators in the pods will complain about this so much

because they're shorts, they don't get any views on their regular content or whatever. But I'm like, first of all, YouTube's paying us for these shorts. You know, could it be more maybe, but like they're paying out, it's a big fund. So they are paying out a lot of money. I'll give them credit. So you make a money and you're getting exposure. you have to be able to capitalize on that exposure somehow even if it's going to be longer harder work like for now

the way I got to do it is I got to get way bigger to get to a point where I split it up and ask people to go to another channel too I'm very conscious of that I don't want to have them do that yet cannibalize it yeah so I'm like well I know I can get exposure with these shorts so guess what bitch you gotta fucking make a couple shorts a week and that's most of your week but just do it you know

So I think that's a good trade. It's incredible, man. What you're doing is insane, especially the amount of work that you put into those things. And another thing is most podcasts aren't even on YouTube. Like a lot of big podcasts. That's one thing that was hard for me was discovering podcasts that weren't on YouTube. Because I still don't know how to find them. You were one of those guys.

You were one of the YouTube heads with podcasts. Yeah, I mean, I was YouTube with four podcasts. So like all I cared about was getting my shit to get viewed on YouTube. Yeah. I don't know. Are you one of those guys that's like super analytical? Do you go into like the numbers and watch like how far they watch and like, okay, right there they stopped. I got to figure out what I did wrong right there. Maybe like adjust that a little bit. Oh, fuck. Yeah. You're super analytical, right? In my life, I'm not good at screenshoting shit, but on YouTube and TikTok, I'm good at screenshot. So I go in. I have a drill. Like I try to live by

this with certain things. I'd rather be looking at it. than looking for it. So I remember there were some early shorts videos that started to go that were at a similar time period where they started to go. And I hadn't screenshoted some of my analytics data from shorts like a month before. And I'm like never again. So now every time I go in there, it's like speed demon. Like I go into that YouTube studio app.

I can't because it's on airplane mode right now. But I go into that app and like I click the video, boom, boom, boom. screenshot. I have the screenshot of the time, obviously, when I did it. It shows I get the screen of how far into the video it is, so is it seven days and 20 hours at this point I'm screenshoting it. It gives me the percentage watch time. It gives me the number of, I get the screenshot of the page that has the number of comments that were on it, the number of likes so I can get a ratio. I go look at the number of subscribers who have subscribed on the basis of this video. I will go screenshot the relevant episode to see where those views are,

being translated. So like is a short translating to people going to the episode. I want to know that. Right? Because I want to know what ones work, what ones don't. But yeah, I do a lot of that. Yeah, you go deep on it. Yeah. Do you build like spreadsheets and like break all the stuff down? No. Okay. You just look at the screenshots. It's up here. You know what the fuck you got to do next. It's up here. And then like if I'm thinking about a specific thing, I will go back into those screenshots and I have a photographic memory. So I'll be like, okay, the rod. video from a month ago that was roughly around the time I screenshied this other thing let me go find that okay I remember there was like a 91.8% watch time at like 400 viewers and then at 4,000 it was the same like and then I'll go confirm that and then I want to see where it was at 400,000 how much did it fluctuate did it go off 91.8 or whatever it was to 91.4 or did it flip around and still go way up in views but it's down at 89% watch time.

Yeah. Interesting, dude. That's so crazy. So when you first started doing this shit, you started having just like your friends come on? Or did you, like, have an idea of the type of guess that you want to have, like Jim?

Like, you said you knew Jim for years, right? Like, did you kind of want to go down that kind of like crazy, like American history, deep state type rabbit hole? My rule was simple. If I'm curious about it,

let's do it. Because you seem like you know a lot of shit. Like you seem like you know quite a bit about politics, history, that kind of stuff? I think, I mean, this is my job. I don't do anything else, right? Like, I sit here, I work on the podcast, and a part of my job is knowing what's going on a day to day.

Is that because of the podcast, or is that just, like, natural for you? Some of it's natural, but it's also, like, yeah, I'm in the studio, I'm working. Like, this is where I get my quick bites of what's going on. What's the big story that just happened? Oh, there's people talking about someone on Twitter. Let's see what that is. And I still miss most of it. So, like, a couple things there.

Number one, it's very easy. And maybe you would notice this if you thought about it, like from your podcast. I'll bet it's probably pretty similar. It's very easy once you have some sort of expert in front of you on whatever it is. Could be a current event or it could be like their life and what they did. It's very easy to start putting things together if they're opening up. And I've been lucky. I've had a lot of people.

I mean, like Jim's a great example. We keep bringing him up and your people hear him soon. Like, that guy doesn't give a fuck. he'll just say at this point he's like yeah i'll tell you about this case i'll tell you about that one i'll tell you about that time i did that to this criminal like he'll just go off and so then maybe while he's talking i can piece together things i remember of like oh what about this other thing this other person told me about one time yeah yeah and then connect the dots i can sound like i know it but really all i'm doing is i'm fishing and then he might say yeah exactly and then suddenly like now he's got

another story. And I try to do that. Sometimes it doesn't work, but yeah, I try to stay like informed, but I don't know what I don't know. And that's, that's a lot. I just like to have an idea, like you and I were talking about psilocybin mushrooms before this. Yeah, yeah. I told you, I don't know much about them. I think I listened one time to like a Joe Rogan episode where he had on some guy. And it kind of went over my head. So like, I don't know if tomorrow I'd bring in still a cylizabin guy but i might right and i might just be like all right i don't know fucking shit man tell me what it is you know and then would people give me credit for knowing about that maybe but they shouldn't you know what i mean like it's almost like you kind of get credit for asking

questions right if that makes sense yeah it totally does yeah and um i'll i'll definitely give you some of those uh micro doses if you want some yeah they're pretty i think i've been thinking as i They're not hardcore. I've been thinking about it for a few years because I'm like, that was one part of college. I skipped. Like, I just watched all my buddies do it. Yeah. I'm like, I kind of wonder.

But there's like, there's like, there's like, bloke, like, not bloke, but there's like people in like Silicon Valley that work at these tech companies and these creative think tank people that, that take those things every day when they go to work and just trying to be creative. This is in your phone because of mushrooms. Or in your phone. This is in your hand. I'm holding up the phone. Oh, yeah. For people listening. This is in your hand because of trips, right?

That's what Steve Jobs did. And that definitely, I'm a huge Steve Jobs guy. Are you? Yeah, that's one of the things that I'm like, I'm curious. I don't know a lot about the history of him. Was he big into magic mushrooms? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And does he say that that's what led him to create a lot of the products is through tripping? He has. Like having the visions. He was quoted as, and I don't remember the exact quote. so I'm not going to give him. But he was quoted in the range of talking about how those experiences, especially like right after college and I think during college. At one point he lived out in the desert, I think, in an RV for a month or some shit like that.

He went to India, did some wild shit over there. Those experiences when he was using creative substances. And I don't remember if it was like psilocybin, I got to go look at that again. But he was using some of this stuff. that is what gave him a lot of his creative vision on the world, and it allowed him to put things together. So, like, it married his interests, his OCD, with his creativity, right? So one of my favorite stories about him is his father, because he was adopted,

so he genetically didn't have a lot in common with his dad. They were different people. But his, he was tight with his dad. And his dad was like a, I don't remember his exact job, but one of his skills was he was an unbelievable carpenter. He could just make incredible shit. And so when Steve was like maybe five, six, seven years old, his dad made some cabinet or some armor that goes against the wall. And when Steve thought he was finished, his dad pulled it back out and like shook his head and went and got the tools and started going to work on it again, on the back, like the part you don't see. and he's like, Dad, what are you doing?

He's like, it's perfect. You don't need to do it. And he goes, no, there was like a, there's some sort of like indentation here or something like that. And Steve said to him, he said, Dad, that's on the back. No one's ever going to see that. And he said, no, you're going to know it's there, though. And if you know it's there, that's a horrible pattern.

And it'll never be right. So that's why when you look at Apple, you know, one of the foundational things that Steve Jobs did turning them around was the iMacs, which he made the, and it drove the engineers nuts, because they don't think like this at all. But he and Johnny Ive made the engineers design the inside, like, well, they designed it. But he made them work within the designs that he came up with

for what the inside looks like, including the parts that even after their transparent design happens, no one would ever see. So when you, if you're like a tech guy and you take apart your Apple, it looks like a work of art inside. No one knows it, but it does because it translates to the rest of the product. They did this even before they created this,

that see-through plastic thing. Remember the round one with the round IMAX? Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. And you could see, you could see some of it there. I don't think you could see all of it. But part of, it was even before that model, I believe, because he came back to the company in 97. But part of doing the whole transparent design there

was quite literally an example of transparency. Look at the work inside. This isn't like a fucking Windows tossed together job because no disrespect to engineers, they make the whole thing go. And that's important to remember. But generalizing here, engineers don't really think about design. Go look at Discord.

Case in point, right? Like simplicity and engineers don't go together. Yeah. So you have to the reason Apple was so great is because Steve married brilliance of engineering with, you know, the teams he put together because he wasn't an engineer himself, with the simplicity of the final user. Right. So when you went on to your iPod for the first time, he wanted nothing more than two clicks away. Right. And so that's how I think of the, like that, that shit changed my life, thinking about that and reading the books about Johnny Ive and stuff and how.

how these guys would look at stuff. Simplicity is like, it's the most important thing. And that was, that was what I was saying about your documentaries too, your style. I noticed that right away when I was watching those for the first time.

You're very, like, it's easy to take in. And you're doing it where it feels like you're doing a lot, and you are because you're filming all this stuff. But with the final product, it's actually right there in front of you. It doesn't try it too hard. It's not zooming in every two seconds on somebody.

It's not like trying to get some crazy shot left and right. It's like, nope. The drone goes right over the setting, kind of like they did in True Detective. Boom, boom, boom. Dude, I love that fucking show. God damn. I could tell.

I could tell. You take it all in. Now you feel like you're there. I feel like I'm in Madera Beach with all these, with all these, I was calling it doc cans, it's deck cans. Deccate, yeah. Yeah, with all these deck hands.

And then, boom, we're right in front of Shane. You go, fuck yeah, man. It's like, you did all that. And the viewer, they don't know why they love that, but that's why they love it because it's right there. I stole a lot of that style from Breaking Bad. It's a great example. Yeah. That's why I got most inspiration for like that filmmaking shit, those little documentaries that I've done in the past, all of it from Breaking Bad.

That makes so much sense now. I did not put that together. Now I'm putting it together. Like all those shots where he'll have the product like up, whatever it is in front of you, like up close. Like they'll be taking the keys out of the locker and you have the shot of like the key. You did some, that's funny. The best thing about Breaking Bad is like, the way they shot that was they would mix so many like super tight tight tight tight shot shots and immediately cut them with super wide angle shots. So like they would go crazy by going back and forth between super like tight zoomed in shots to super wide shots.

And I never going to look at a breakdown. The way that it's weird, you got to be like a like a cinematographer type nerd to understand this kind of shit. I love that shit. But the way that you kind of use lenses can have a dramatic effect on how people process the documentary. And that's what I learned a lot. I learned a lot about that from Breaking Bad. What are your other main inspirations? Kind of putting you on the spot.

Yeah, I don't know. I like True Detective. The first season of True Detective was one of my favorite shows ever. Might be the best season of TV ever made. It really, really was. With Matthew McConaughey, dude, and Woody Harrelson, that was fucking... Well, you shut the fuck up. Yeah.

They're so... You say the dumbest shit sometimes. I'm trying to think, like, what else was really good besides Breaking Bad, True Detective? No, I can't think of anything right now. Those two definitely, like, top five for sure. But, you know, like we were talking about earlier, like transitioning from communicating shit with just... like lenses and like light light light and lenses is what all it is then going into just like something like this just talking back and forth and communicating with someone it's night and day

it's completely two different worlds yeah it's it's it's it's two different things and it's oh yeah it's completely it's but it's kind of the same thing though it's kind of the same thing because you're you're saying communication well one thing this is more of communication that i mean it's both entertainment right it's both they're both forms of entertainment right it's both they're both It's both forms of media. They're on the same exact medium. They're both on YouTube. You're kind of doing the same thing.

I'm like I'm not really interviewing you right now, but when you're talking to somebody like Shane Lee or like that girl, Lady Kim, you kind of just like, I'm in a dark alley with a camera on a tripod, kind of having a conversation like this. I'm cutting myself out of it. Right. Right. I understand. And I can add in all this cool looking fucking B-roll, music, drone footage, whatever it is. to spice it up and make it look better and give it more of a vibe more of a feel you know what i mean watching those things is more like a like a like a it's like a vibe like a really cool music video

way different i understand what you're saying now i was i was i was thinking something else at the beginning but yeah and and like you also it's a different it's a different kind of skill i mean it's a different kind of intelligence i think but you here's the thing where i because we were literally talking about this like right before we walked in yeah yeah we we got cut off but good spot to go back into it. First of all, for all your fans out there who I assume

have pretty much, I assume you've seen deck hands at this point. It's phenomenal. But that fourth part in particular with Kim, some of the best,

and the word best is not great, but bear with me. That is, from my money, some of the greatest 15 minutes of storytelling I have ever seen in my life. And it would,

seriously, though. A lot of that series, it's sad and funny at the same time. That one, it almost appeared for a second like it was going to be. And then you see this woman's story and what happened to her. And the fact that you, like, you talk about, oh, I get to be behind the camera and designing all of it. You also had to, of course you were there. You can't control what's going to happen to her. And obviously some very advantageous things for filmmaking happen while you were.

or with her, just be honest. But you also, while you're doing this, you're talking with her. And the shit you got her to open up about. Yeah. I don't, it struck me when we were talking outside. You don't comprehend how difficult that is because, fuck, man. I mean, the heaviness of that. I went and looked it up after this, I did tell you.

But for people who weren't there listening to us when we were talking, which is nobody. I went up and You looked up each one of those people Yeah, yeah, I did And I saw the comment sections Were like, oh, RIP these people I'm like, damn, this was like This is in the last like four or five years

They all died. They all died and she died like Three months after this video She was the first one Right Yeah. So I go and I find her obituary Now mind you

And for anyone who hasn't actually seen this This woman was She was molested by her father Who was a cop? Who was a cop? Yeah, and she was a little girl that from age 4 to 17. You got the visual details of her explaining exactly how it went down.

He impregnated her, made her have the kid and took the kid from her, and then she ran away. And that's how her life got out of control. But first of all, I mean, that's like, I don't even know what to say about that. But you also get all that on camera. You capture this woman's tragedy. I mean, she had a horror and thing. series of a life just for the first 17 years and then the rest of it was just like a sad documentary right right and first of all it reminds you of the perspective of all other people around

you because you're like you never know you never know who's been through what where they're from what they're about you know there's good and there's bad with just about everyone besides adolf hitler right so you know there's exceptions but by and large most people there's good and bad and like with her when I went and looked up her obituary. It just, that hit me so heavy because it says her name. It says the day she was born in 1968, the day she died in 2017, and then no one has come forward, period. And that's all it says.

And I'm like, okay, somebody was inhabiting this earth for 49 years. Based on the fact that you spent the first two minutes of the episode asking a bunch of people where you could find her. people knew her. People knew who she was. She had a nickname. She was arrested by cops sometimes. They knew her.

The jail systems knew her. You know, she grew up somewhere. She had some family there, obviously not a good one. But people knew her. And she never had a shot. She said it on camera too. You got her to say this. I never had a childhood.

And that was tragic to me because she actually knew that. Most people, at least what I've seen, of people who have tragedy. Like, they don't, they know that, but they don't. You don't admit it. Right, exactly. But she was like, no, I didn't have one. It was taken from me.

Because he would come out. I'd hear his keys jingling, and I'd know he was about to rape me. On the beach, like the whole... Like, the whole... Running down the beach, yeah. The whole thing. And, like, you get all this, and I'm like, if Danny had not gotten this 15 minutes right here,

as a time capsule for anyone to watch in the future, this woman's life would be... Kim, whatever her last name was, I don't even remember. It's bad. But it was born on this date, died on this date. Hollywood Kim. No one's come forward. Someone reads that 200 years from now.

They go, oh man, nothing happened. It's like, well, no. A lot happened. Yeah. And like, we should learn from that too. Like, if people can, some, one person out there can take something from that and be like, oh, I'm in a bad situation too. Like, I don't want to end up like that.

Or, you know, what about my friends so-and-so? They don't strike me as well. Maybe I should talk with them. You know, that's a tragic, insane situation, but it happens. Things like that happen. Yeah, it's weird, too. I think it does something to them, to their minds when you kind of like immortalize them on the internet. Because they all became, like, instant celebrities down there on the beach.

Yeah, they did. everyone who people would come down from different states because this is a big transient tourist area too and a lot of people would come down like and see them at bars or come down to even try to find them they come to make sure they go to made jeeringly and shit they go to made sure to find those guys and then like when they go on there like after we did those first episodes we kind of like we would always go down there every couple months or every month like trying to catch up with them see how they're doing and see what's up and they'd be like all they want to talk about is their video like my video you should read that fucking comment on my video like what the loved it. Could we do it on their video? Can we do it their video? And it was like, it's, I don't know what it does, but psychologically it did something to them. You gave them purpose. Yeah.

I don't know if that was it. Yeah, they got a lot of joy out of that. Yeah. You gave, and like, as sad as that seems, because it's just a video out there that, like, some people saw them and it doesn't change their circumstance or situation. Like, it gave them something. But it all, I mean, it also, like, it makes me think, too. Like, I can't help but think. Release that video.

It came and she dies two months later. It makes me think, like, was there, was that part of the reason she might have died? Like, did she give up after she realized her life was out there? You know, I mean, I think about that stuff sometimes. Wow. You know, now that you think about, like, you gave this lady purpose, whatever you want to call it, you say that, you know, her story is now out there, immortalized, everybody knows about it. It's kind of like, could that, could she have given up after that somehow?

Maybe? I don't know. You're handling that well. I'll tell you that. Because that's a heavy thing. She's not, you know. Yeah. Didn't she...

I was going to say, didn't she say she had cancer? She said that on camera. I thought I heard that right. I don't think she had lung to live. Well, she had, according to Shane Lee, she had cunt cancer. Yeah. Yeah, that was interesting. That guy.

Interesting. Yeah, he's straight to it, man. He does not sugarcoat anything. But, yeah, you listen to what she said. I could see that. Like that part at the end where she got, I guess she got like kicked out of that house she was staying at or something, which was like, Jesus Christ.

You know, I think she looked at, didn't even look at the camera, but she's like, just take me to the water. Yeah. Because that's where she, I forgot about that. That was, she used to get raped on the beach because she would go to the water

because the sound of the water would give her comfort or something like that. Fucking wild is that, dude. And so in that moment, she didn't care that she was in, some random documentary guy's car that all went out the window she didn't care of this fucking views on youtube she was legitimately once again for the million's time in her life broken and said take me to the water as i'll be all right there and then she went to the water and

for a minute she got her breath under her and then was actually able to say something yeah and said a lot of heavy shit too but that could the way you put that that could have been you know she was already very sick as you said like that kind of thing could have been like the last testament of her life. Right. And she never had, never thought she was going to get the chance. But, I mean, she got to talk to her kid on there, which. Right.

You know. That's kind of what it hit me about it. Like, thinking about, like, you put this message out there directly to your kid. And it's got, I don't know how many views it got. It also got like almost a million views on that. It got a lot. It got a lot. Didn't get enough, but it got a lot.

And it's like almost like maybe she's psychologically, like, that was the bow on it. I do believe in that shit. I think people, I mean, I think it's also, I don't want to speak for anything. I don't have any studies in front of me, but I think some of that's probably been supported by science, like the mental, emotional, tied to physical life. Like, why do some people get something off their chest and then look up at the sky, take their last breath and die? You know, it's like, oh, we didn't know they were going to go today.

And your mind is something, I mean, think about, like, people who get diagnosed with cancer, who it's all, like, think about, like, when you go through that process, you get diagnosed, you get told, the doctor tells you you have this X amount of days to live. Most of them live up to that exact amount of time the doctor tells them. Yeah. It's kind of like a mental, self-fulfilling prophecy. When there are some people who have the ability to change their state or change who they are, whatever, and like fight through it, rare people.

But I think I truly do think that a lot of times when in those kind of situation, people get diagnosed with cancer, that they believe that shit and they go to, down this depressive downward spiral because of the the psychology of that diagnosis is almost unbearable and it just kind of like adds kerosene to the fire and helps you die quicker yeah look i don't think anyone can really know until god forbid it happens to them but you can learn from watching other people deal with crazy shit and how it how it molds them you know And, like, her environment is what made her life. And, like, on the one hand, yeah, do people have free will?

Can they make decisions? Yeah. But who the fuck am I to judge somebody who got raped by their dad for 13 years? Right. Like, I can't believe she was still alive. Yeah. She lived 48 years. I can't believe that's, like, plus 31.

Right. On the over. Right. On the over. You know? Seriously. Like not to be like callous about it, but crazy to me. And I'll bet she wish she died.

You know, like I just don't. Something like that, man. I mean, we got into this rabbit hole talking about your style, but the way you put that together and like even with the dark comedy on the front, with the shame with the quotes. Oh, my God. Like he said that and that was the first video I watched. Oh, was it really?

So I didn't know who he was. That was the last episode you watched first. And I was like. that's kind of while. And I didn't know where it was going. I saw the title, so I'm like, oh, it was going to be rich. And then it gets to where it did. And, and again, it's, I mean, you talk about, like, different content on YouTube,

all different shit that has to compare. This is a 15-minute documentary. This wasn't a feature film. It took you 15 minutes to get a snapshot. Very vivid one at that. It took you 15 minutes to watch it. It took years to make it. Let's be very clear about that.

You were filming all night and all day with her and the editing. I know that. But I'm saying, like, the final product that the person sees, like, me, who had no idea of the story. Right, right. Boom. I mean, that is so, so. I had Jim watch that, too. Did you?

Yeah. He called me up. He's like, holy. And, you know, this guy's seen the worst of the worst. Yeah. The worst did. This guy was one of the lead interrogators globally for the FBI. Like, he's seen the worst of the worst.

And he's like, that's fucking fucked up. I'm like, yeah. And we just sat there in silence for a minute. He's like, I just, that's insane. Well, when you can, when you can dramatize it with music and timing and all that, it makes it hit way harder. Oh, yeah. You know, if you strip that thing of the music and the timing and some of like the,

it's everything about it, just like the color grading, it just creates this full fucking effect and makes it hit you 10 times harder. Yeah. And you're, I mean, even like on your podcast. How you do it like with the cameras and some of the you know this is your expertise cinematography so right that little minus the editing minus the music minus the B roll so it's like still though that's to be good that's not absolutely yeah but that's when people are coming into it they're expecting a podcast right right they're not like exactly it's a studio it's back and forth

exactly so when someone's coming across a podcast for the first time this is why it's so important they don't know who you are there's a million podcasts out there they're going to give this maybe two seconds. Screen comes on and they see like the production and there's something, there's just something that looks different about your visual. It's really wild how you do it. And they're like, what the fuck is this? And the next thing you know, they just watch a Roger Reeves.

Yeah, I know, right. You know, it's like, that's how it goes. That's cool. But look, man, I think you married something that you wanted to do that you probably did more than you realized, which is talking with people and getting to the bottom of people's story and what they're about or what they think about things with, you know, also putting together something that is produced in a visually beautiful way.

Yeah, for me, I mean, it's, in some ways, I'm like the very opposite of you when I'm not at all analytical. Like, not one bit. Like, it makes my head hurt to think about numbers and look at stuff and look at graphs and look at charts because, like, most people who are doing this shit on YouTube or creating any kind of content on YouTube. Most of them are very analytical. And like we were talking about earlier, like, I'm going to do more stuff.

Like if this gets a lot of views, I'm going to do more content like that. Or if people in the comments are saying, you got to do this, you got to do this, you got to do this, you got to do this. I'm going to do what they say. Like, most people do do that. And I think that contributes to a lot of success on social media. You got to, you got to do that. You got to be good at doing that. And that's just something I've never been good at.

You were saying something else to me earlier, though, before we were on here, about doing what you want to do, though, versus doing what you think people want. And that's a, in my opinion, you know, I only know from doing my own stuff. So take that for what it is. That's something you got to marry, right? Like, if you're not doing something that you want to do,

you might be able to pull off one piece of good content, two pieces. Eventually, like, your heart's not there. So, like, the people who just kind of chase whatever the trend is, that's why a lot of them flame out. Versus like, I haven't watched Rogan in a long time, but Mr. Beast was on last week, and I cute that fucking thing out. Oh, really?

Or like, I don't know, like three weeks ago or something. I cued that thing up right away. That guy's a fucking psycho, man. He's a machine. He is a machine. Now, he's, you want to talk analytical. Oh, my God. That man's analytical.

But he leans into things that he enjoys. Right? It's fun for him. Right? So there's been, he talked about videos in the past where the guy's spending, million dollars on a video. He's like, nah,

let's cut it. I don't like it. You know what I mean? He's not like, well, we made it. It's analytically appealing. Let's put it.

He's like, nah, this ain't it. And I look at that and I'm like, scraps a million dollar video. This guy's, this guy's speaking. Now,

that's a little crazy. That's a little crazy. That's a little crazy. But he's also making, you know, insane money. So. And then transletting it

and all those fucking languages, dude. Yeah. Holy shit. That was an instant. He is a machine. He's a factor. That was, like, I saw that and I'm like, oh, I got two and a half hours Mr. B's talking.

Let's hear that shit. Nothing else is going on. You know that there's going to be little nuggets you can get from that. And really, I got, like, reassurance on a few things, too, because he talked about, like, the attention map of people and how you always have to be testing. How you have to figure out, like, this works versus, like, the smallest things, like a shade. on a thumbnail and stuff like that. And there's some of it like, you know, I'm running my whole shot myself.

I can't do all this. But the things I do a lot, what I can, I guess, the things I can do, yeah, I want to test with that stuff. I definitely do that with my short content. I'm always testing, like, even like a one frame out of 24 pause

that I normally wouldn't put in there. Like, let's try that. Because this is like second 24 of the video. We've had six sentences set already. We have the context and setting plays. I think people are wondering what's happening next so I can afford that extra beat and people aren't going to flick their thumb.

Like that was the language he was talking on there and so I appreciated the hell out of that. Like every single frame of every single video and like what has to go where to keep people on there and not from clicking off. That's how you think about your short videos that you make. Yes. Because they didn't pick my video.

The video's 99.9% of the people see it in their shorts feed. It popped down. up every single person is a gun owner on YouTube and TikTok and the trigger is their thumb or is the screen yeah and the thing pulling it is their thumb and all they got to do that's their closing speed right that's your background you have circled a comment on there a comment a YouTube comment oh no that's like an old tweet oh okay but like that's their closing speed that's about one to two frames out of 24 poop right poop poop poop poop poop Right.

So they are, every time you go on there, every single person has a gun in your face. And I'm like, we're ready to pull it. Oh, yeah. And my job is to not make them pull it until the video is played and I'm out of the screen. Right. So that's different than this. Right. I don't ever.

With a podcast, bro, we said it's just like you do it. Right. That's why I really like this. Like, it's just like we literally, for people listening out there, we sat down. We just sat down. fucking just started that's it you know there's nothing to it dude do you do you how old are you 29 29 do you remember when the first iPhone came out yes did you get the first one no dude that was like there's never been anything like when that first iPhone came out like going back to what you're

talking about like when you were thinking about like we were talking about steve jobs taking mushrooms or whatever and like creating crazy shit like that moment when that i remember when my buddy bought that first iPhone and i was like looking at it holding it it was just like this is a huge like giant leap in technology like there's never been anything

even close to this before there's no it was the first thing with the touch screen ever I think now did you hold it I don't know if you remember these details but did you hold it like at all like when you were first looking at it where you just had it like that and you didn't unlock it and you just looked at it yeah oh yeah

I mean it's it's a work of art the first one especially like the first The first one was just like, I mean, even though it was so fucking slow, and like you could barely use the internet, it took like 10 minutes to boot up a web page. And like just like looking at the text messaging and what the text looked like because I went from a razor to that first fucking iPhone. Shout out to the razor found out. Yeah. Yeah.

Shout out to the razors. No e on that word. That was, that was an error. I had plenty of razors and Nokia brick phones. Yeah. Oh, man. And those things never died. No.

The Nokia's, that was the one thing. They were horrible. But you could throw that shit against the wall. They brought it back, actually. Did they really? Yeah, and it has like a seven-day battery life or some shit on it. Yeah, that's fucking right else. Like one charged, like one week.

My aunt had one, I think, for 11 years. Wow. Fucking thing. You never charged it once. Probably not. Sitting there playing snake. Yeah. But yeah, it's, I know what you're saying.

And they also had, like, the customizable face plates on there. Like, you could get, like, gold face plates. Remember, you could get different covers for your phone? I don't remember that. The Nokia phones? Oh, the Nokia phones. The Nokia ones. Yeah.

I don't remember that. Really? No. Oh, you could get all kinds. Oh, no, I do remember that. Yeah, because you would like take, you're talking about where it would go over the. Yeah. The plastic shell.

Yeah. Yeah. That was. Or side kicks. It's funny. He had side kicks. I remember. I had a sidekick too.

What was the other one? The envy or whatever? Was it the end? The thing that would, like, slide out the Verizon made? I don't know. I didn't have that one. I had it too mobile. Yeah, the side kick.

I think I know what you're talking about them. But like you're talking about slow and stuff and clunky. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, it was that. But still, like, what were people working with at the time? Yeah. They're working with a fucking, like, Blackberry 2. Right?

Like, they're working with a razor. Like, that shit, that internet basically went, well, it's, like, booting up. What's that? There's, like, a term for that. People talk about sometimes the stagnation of tech. You heard that term before? Yeah, I know what time.

They talk about it stagnating. Like, there hasn't been any crazy innovation in tech. since that first iPhone came out and that was like fucking blue everyone's mind. That's going to bother me. What the exact, it is something like that. Try, try looking that up,

Austin, just Google that. Google that term. It's more, the, the law is it that's about exponential technology? Is that Moore's law is the one that says like things come back to center, come back to Earth?

But what's the one that says technology increases at an exponential pace? Oh. That's so bad that I can't remember that. because they've been trying to argue that we're finally, you know, they're always arguing new normal with stuff. Oh, we're finally reaching the point

where we can't go at exponential anymore. Stagnation just means slower. Well, yeah, I know it's stagnation. Can you pull up... Technological stagnation, yeah. Yeah, let's see that drop-down. It's here to say.

We've made advancements, but the basic fabric of life remains broadly the same. The lack of technical revolution has been labeled the great tech stagnation. Some have gone to solidness. far as suggesting that

all the big world-changing tech has been made, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. That might be the actual term. Yeah. I just, in my head, I can't hear that. The stagnation of tech. I've heard that before. What's the law? Andy, I don't know if you can find that. It's like,

if you type in, like, tech law of innovation, it's going to piss me off. It's one of, is it Newton's? It's not Newton's. Maybe it's Moors. It's Newton or Moors, I feel like. Newton's law or Moore's law. But, yeah, it says, like, technology always increases that exponential pace, and eventually

it has to not do that anymore. Just, like, level off? Yeah. And so there's been people arguing that, like, oh, it's starting to happen and level off. Because every iPhone is essentially the same fucking thing with, like, a little bit of, a little bit of an update, right? I mean, like, the cameras are different. Or they say it's lighter or faster, whatever it is.

But, like... What about behind the scenes, though? Not just iPhones. Well, like, what do you mean behind the scenes? You mean, like, like, non-consumer type stuff? Right now, non-consumer. I mean, like, we don't have self-driving cars on the road, right? The first car that successfully did, like, a decent job self-driving was in 2006.

We just don't know that. I mean, we know it, but we don't have it because, why? because Washington, D.C. needs 2 trillion miles of data before they're going to let one pen stroke actually let something legitimately on the road without someone behind a wheel, which in a way some of that I guess.

You could say Tesla was kind of like another kind of like an iPhone moment in history and like technological history. Agreed. For sure. I mean, today we're driving over here into Tesla. I'm looking at the gas prices. It's like five bucks. Right. You don't get a fuck about that. No, I didn't want to spend the gas money

to drive to Tampa. You're good. the wife's Tesla. But yeah, no, I don't know. I don't know. There's like, I feel like there's got to be something else, like another kind of like giant leap like that this was. I mean. It hasn't happened.

And when did the first iPhone come out? 2007. 2007? Yeah. Yeah, it's been a minute. Jesus Christ. Now, we have, I will say, we have come a long way from that first iPhone, but I agree with you since like the XR. the iPhone innovation seems to be more stagnant.

Part of that's a company thing though too. You know, Apple has enough money to buy 78 countries, enough cash flow. But one call that I had wrong, I was young when I made it, I was like a teenager, but when Steve Jobs died, I'm like, the innovation just died. I'm like, all right, let's give him a couple years, let's see. and then a couple years later they hadn't innovated anything and I'm like

oh they're gonna be dead they're gonna be dead in like five years like they're gonna because that's what happens slowly and then all of a sudden now they had enough cash to be able to keep buying innovation right but like think about new like Steve Jobs

made things we didn't know we need he said I'm gonna put your phone your music and your internet all in your pocket right boom right I'm gonna put fuck a laptop you can, and a notepad, you're going to walk around with a tablet. And it's going to be touchscreen and do all this crazy shit just like a computer.

I'm going to put that there. There hasn't been anything like that since then. No. They've made a watch. They did make a watch. But it's a watch. It's just this on a fuck on your wrist, basically. That's it.

And it's a watch. Right. That's been done before. Right. You know what I mean? Right. So I give them a lot of credit from a business perspective. They found a way to keep making the products, even if it's more stagnant recently.

they keep making them look better they still have the best products on the market I'm a Mac guy I have no plans of leaving that but yeah like you don't have you don't replace Steve Jobs no he was the company

he was the company you know definitely not so I think people like when I study Steve I'm like well if we can pick out the best parts at him how he looked at the world maybe people in whatever they do

because I'm not I'm not out of here building a tech company or anything, but I'm like, maybe there's good ways to integrate that. And when I read his beliefs in simplicity, and like I love marketing, as we've talked about, like I'd go back and I'd look at their ads,

which are always genius. And I'm like, oh, that's it. Where there could be 10 words he made two, right? Yeah. Yeah. Where there could be three colors. He said one. With one with black text. Right? Like he made you,

feel and think something by taking away. Right? And so he and Johnny Ive, like you talked about, I asked you Johnny Ive, who is that? Is that the guy with the accent? Yeah. The Australian accent or whatever? Or was it British? I think he's British, I believe.

But yeah, Johnny I've, Johnny Ive, in my opinion, is the greatest industrial designer to ever live. He was the C.DO, Chief Design Officer of Apple. and the reason I asked you, like, if you just looked at it in your hand, was because that's what they did. Like, they sat there and they pissed off every engineer in the building because they're like, no, it has to look this way. It needs to be an infinity screen.

Like, I have a case on my phone. They'd probably have a heart attack seeing that. That's because they're crazy, but I'm not going to not have a case on this investment. But, like, still, like, I try to keep my case one of the ones that you can barely see it's around because I like the art of it. But they sat there like, you know, they, they still had to have the home button then, but the rest of it,

they wanted it to be an infinity pool. And then when Steve saw that a company in Delaware had invented, this also came up earlier when you and I were talking about, had invented this patent that allows just the slightest delay of the eye when you slide across on your home screen, on Apple. He's like, well, we got to buy him

because we have to do that. Like, that's how it has to be. So he bought the fucking company. You know, like, there was such a specific way. Yeah. And he would not. It drove some people nuts, but the people, like, his marketing company that advised them, I forget what it was called, maybe, like, something in Chow.

Like, that guy, Ken Seagall wrote a book about it that a third grader could read, which is very apropos, called, like, simplicity is whatever. Right. Just about his experiences with Steve. And, like, everything they did was just less. Right. How do we do less? And it's the hardest thing they do.

Yeah, I mean, he, like the CEO of Apple now, I mean, he's definitely, he's doing a job, right? He's definitely fulfilling obligations. But Steve wasn't treating it like that at all. He was treating it like, like, that was his child. Yes. That was, that was him himself. Like, yeah. Did you hear the story about him, the story about him, like, looking at one of the first iPhones, maybe it was the first one.

And he was on Google's website on the phone. And he was like, at, like, at like, 1 a.m., like, like, like, like, like, late at night, I forget, but it was like a ridiculous hour. And he was looking at Google and he was like, he called the owner of Google or one of the CEO of Google and he's like, hey, I think the O, the shade of the red in the O is a little bit off on the iPhone. Can you double check? I have heard.

Like, that's just insane. Yeah. That's how he thought. You got to be fucking crazy. That's how he thought. And it was like, you do got to be crazy, but also like if you're just wired that way. You know, and some of this stuff, like people out there, when you read it, maybe a lot of people don't on some things, but a lot of you, you think about

some of the stuff, you just don't realize it. Like, I never realized how I thought about text, for example, like how text looks. I was always very exact about that when I would do something. That was probably another sign. I was a creative person and just didn't pay attention. But, like, I'd always be like, no, no, why does that, why does that T have the bar at the bottom? And I never thought about what San Serif and Serif was, which I always get them mixed up. But one is where it's continuous, meaning, like, if you have an F, it's just the lines.

The other is where it'll have, like, a design on the back end of the lines, like another line. You know what I mean? Like a little swirly at the end? Yeah. Like a little, like, loop-dy-whoop? Just something that makes it not continuous. So they add.

Right? So, like, Apple's text. See this right here? See the A up on the screen? on N. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See the bottom of the A. It has bars.

The little line, right. That's either, I think that's serif, right? Right. And then Sons, yeah, that would make sense. Sons is without, right? In Latin, I don't know. But Sonserif is like Apple's text, where it's just the A.

And like shit like that, he studied that stuff. He actually knew it. I never knew that. Fucking crazy, dude. But. The stuff you never pay attention to. Yeah.

Like, then I'd be like, oh, That's why I always would use this text on Snapchat instead of... Like that, right? Yes, exactly. That's it. Yep. If people can see this right now, if you're listening. Yeah.

Google San Serf and Serf. But yeah, like he thought all those details. And I don't know, maybe that's like part of the analytical thing too. So maybe that's why... Do you think he was super analytical or do you think he was just really? He was both... He was a mix. He was very...

He was very artistic. and he would deny analytics when it came to the final vision. So like if someone said to him, Steve, the data says that people don't want that wave screen, he'd say, fuck what they want. I know what they want. Right? I do that too with things. Oh, the data says people don't want this kind of music on a clip and I'm like, fuck what they want.

I know that hits. This is what I want. Right. Then it hits, right? Right. So it's like a yin and a yang. Like, yeah, it's hard. I definitely get it wrong sometimes.

and he definitely got it wrong sometimes. But like when you're right, I mean, conviction in the eyes of, or in the face of pushback is very, very difficult. He was good at that. What do you think he would say if he was live today about all the criticism of about slaves building his phones and mining the fucking minerals for his phones in China? I think, I feel like he would have done something about that.

Yeah, well, I think he would have been, I think he would have been fired a CEO because I think he would have been he would have said something way too blunt Oh yeah Yeah he wouldn't survive in this In this culture where we're living in right now For better or worse

And trust me For sometimes it was for worse Because he really didn't give a fuck Right He had flaws but like Yeah people say he was ruthless He would tell you what he thought You know and like think about that

And he died in 2011 Front end of Twitter culture Right Like people think he's still alive Some people think he's... How many people think he still alive? I saw Instagram post there day. I think I sent it to you.

It's a bad start. In Egypt, the guy sitting at a coffee shop in Egypt, they said it was Steve Jobs. I see, that's a famous picture. How is it? Yeah, I still think Tupac might be alive. That's my little rabbit hole one. But yeah, I mean, he probably wouldn't have lasted in this environment. And that's more of a compliment than there's certainly some detraction.

I'd say to that because he really, like he'd say he was hard to work for. But his style apparently was he wanted to rip you, like, in ways that every HR person in America would have a heart attack today. But, like, he expected you to do that back to him. So, like, the people who would be like, you know what, Steve, I'll see your insult and raise you this one. He'd be like, great. like you know the movie ted where he's Teddy bear with Mark Wahlberg

yeah where he's trying to get fired by the guy and the guy's like you fucked an employee in the back of the store and you did it on top of a frosted flakes and he's like and I I raw dog there and he's like we need more of that you're promoted

yeah that's kind that's an exaggerated version but that's the way I've read it and I didn't know the guy but that seems to be right Right, right. Kind of how he was.

Hmm. I don't know. I don't know. You think they're ever going to start making these things in America, though? It's a great point you bring up. I mean... They would only cost like $12,000. That's the problem.

Someone said to me, though, that I don't know who said this to me, so I also don't remember how credible this could be. But someone was saying to me that there are ways to do this, that A, aren't in China, and B, are not slave labor, but it's other countries over there, maybe like Cambodia, I don't know, like something like that where it's very cheap. It's still not ethically the greatest,

but the distance that that cheap labor will go for those workers in those economies. As farther than where it's going now. Yes, it's also not in an authoritarian regime like that. Don't talk about that. This is his favorite country is China. That's your favorite country? No.

It's his favorite place he's ever been. He's been to China. He says there's nothing bad he could say about it. You've been to China? Yeah. When did you go? A long time. Probably 10 years ago.

Where'd you go in China? Stayed in Guangzhou. Went to Hong Kong for a little while. Is that the... Guangzhou's like southeast. Yeah, that's where they make all the... That's where they make all... I think that's like the hardware city.

I could be wrong about that. Really? Yeah. I remember that one. Did you stay? You stayed in like a six by six box, right? They stayed in a super small place. I mean, it's like New York, bro.

It's like everyone's apartments. It was like New York. China was like New York. Yeah, I don't know how much I like that. It's like Chinese version of New York. It's like all China people and tall buildings. Nobody has a house, you know. Oh, okay.

All right. I see what you're saying. In that aspect. It's just tiny apartments. How many people are in that city? Fuck, I don't know. Tons. Can we look that one up?

Tons. What's the name of the city again? Population Guangzhou. It's what? G-U-A-N-N-A. Z-H-O. That's one of the... I don't know if that's where Foxcon is.

I don't think so, but that's... Is there only one Foxcon? As far as I know. G-U-A-N... I don't know. Maybe another G and then like Z-H-O. But it's on the southeast coast there. And that's where...

Pull up on a map. I can't even picture it. That was in the one autobiography, or not auto-bite. That was in, I think, Walter Isaacson's biography where he talked about Steve visiting there. Really? And like some of the deals they made. But there's, you know, to your point, there's the problem with, like, slave labor. I don't even know if it's all in China.

It might be in other places, too. I'm not sure about that. It's a big country. Yeah, it's a big country. You didn't see any suicide nets when you were there? Yeah, that's the other one. Yeah, that's it. 13 million.

Almost 14 million. And New York's, what, like seven in Manhattan? Yeah, probably. Yeah, it's big city move. A lot of people. A lot of fucking people. That's the thing. Population of Manhattan.

That's the thing they got going for them over there. They got a lot of people. Demographics are important. Food was really cool. What do they do about, what do they do about you can't have what? You can't have daughters now? Or you can only have one daughter. What is the rule?

Well, that was 1.6 million in Manhattan? Wait, what? Holy shit. Wait, it's $7 million in all of New York City? So all the boroughs put together? No way. It's that low now? Try to snap in, bro.

I might have just sounded like a moron. I wasn't trying to. All of New York? 8.4, okay. Yeah, see that, fuck, I never I never thought about that. But that's what... How big is Guantio

compared to Manhattan? If it was the same fucking size. I don't know, it's probably not... It's probably like the size of New York. It's smaller than Manhattan. It's half the size. I mean, Manhattan's... I don't think you can put that many people in some smaller now.

The 8.4 million includes all five. So it's Manhattan, Staten Island, down south, people that's kind of like the island borough Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens. I would have thought it was more, but I guess I always looked at that wrong. I just sounded like a fucking moron, but What is the size of...

Just pull it up on a map. Well, Manhattan's, I think it's like the seven-mile island, right? Seven-mile? Maybe I'm wrong about that, too. I don't know. Can you file the square, the square, what do you look for a square mileage of Miami? Or not Miami, what the fuck? Miami's square mileage is 35.

miles. We looked that up one time. Really? Yeah. Like the square. You're a human encyclopedia. With the unit. Really? No, we looked that up on a podcast. What's the square mileage of Manhattan? And then find that, find out the square mileage of all in New York, maybe? Guangio. Yeah. That's going to be interesting. Watch it be like two miles in one. 22 square miles is Manhattan.

So that, think about that. That means greater New York City, which includes all the boroughs, is a lot bigger than Miami. Way bigger. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because that's already 22 just Manhattan. He's like double-triple to size. I mean, Staten Island's enormous in and of itself. Right, right. But then what's Guangzhou? Guantio square mileage.

I'm ready to go back. He loves fucking China. I don't think I'm allowed in China. I'm definitely not allowed in Russia, I'll tell you that. That's not happening. I love this picture, by the way. It's an all-time. Oh, yeah.

All-time picture. 2,800. Holy shit. Pull up the map. Pull up the map. Well, wait a second. That's a province. Well, no.

The province is the opposite of what I think it would be. Oh, that's big, bro. Yeah, that's huge. Can you go back for one second, Andy? Just where that said... Austin. Yeah. It's Austin.

I've been calling you Andy this whole time. I owe you at 30, man. I did just meet you, like, right before. But that's still like... That's disgusting. I'm sorry. I won't forget that now Pig

But yeah So why does it say province Oh yeah See the province has a K at the end I didn't see that So the province is like the entire region So that's 68,000 Oh

Yeah so that doesn't count But still K at the end 2870 I just said Miami's 35 That's fucking nuts isn't it So that's actually not that crazy That has a 13 million population

It's still a lot But I bet you most of that is in one area. Probably. Like New York, you know. Probably. Yeah, because I wonder if like... Is that where Foxcon is? What province is Foxcon?

What the hell is Foxcon? That's the factory they make the iPhones. Yeah, where they got the Nets. The suicide nests. Oh, word. Yeah. Yeah, Danny Sam hit that video. So I started telling them all this shit about China.

We had this guy on the podcast and started telling us all this crazy shit about China. Who was that? It was Matt. Oh, it was Matt Con. Yeah. It's like, dude, you have... If you're, if you fucking commit any kind of fraud, it's death in China. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, it's, look, I think people forget, and talking to me wrong, like, we should always be trying to make the system better. And I am definitely a hypocrite because I complain about a lot of shit. But, God damn, is it a lot better here than pretty much anywhere else. Yeah. You know, and, like, we can still, again, like, say, well, it's fucked up that we do this or do that. But the alternative, I mean. some of these places.

You know, I had this guy on here a couple weeks ago and he was talking about, we started talking, the Andrew Bustamante episode. Love that guy. He's great. I started questioning him about Julian Assange and I was like,

I was like, what do you think about him? Like, what do you think about his whole story? And then he started talking about Snowden and he's like, do you think what he did was wrong? I'm like, what's your view? He's like, obviously he thought what he did was wrong. But then he started talking about like,

the levels of civilization. He's like, he started explaining to me. I mean, it actually made me kind of like take his position on it. Yeah, can you say with this, I listen to all three of his podcast, but can you explain this again? I don't know. Yeah. So what he was explaining, he's like, basically I was like, don't you think that it's right would, like,

Julian Assange was just basically exposing like the most fucked up secrets that should be exposed to like create more of a balance in the world, right? like you should if someone's committing such a fucked up atrocity and hiding it what is the harm in exposing it to make them better and make them account start being more accountable for their actions to create more of a balance across nations yes yes yes um and he goes no I'm like why he's like and then he said do you have kids and I'm like yeah of course I have kids like well do you tell your kids everything that you do and I'm like I'm like okay I kind of see where you're going with that I remember this now and then and then he's like he started to explaining the hierarchy or the pyramid of a state, the formation of a state. He's like, if we're all free roamers, he's like, I could club you over the head, take your wife, and there's nothing you can do about it. But if we form a tribe, now you're protected by your tribe. So we can go out and we can kill the food and the wives, the wives can stay home and pick the berries. And if somebody comes in and tries to steal one of our wives, you have the power of the tribe to protect us and take care of each other. And then he's like, when you're,

you get above the tribe you have the creation of the state and he's like when you have that you know you call it like a pyramid right he called it a pyramid yeah um and he started to explain it and it made a lot of sense he's like and then the other point he made which i don't know if this is true or not because i know there's a lot of like he said she said and there's a lot of it's hard to know the truth but he said that julie nassange wasn't fair with the shit that he exposed. He said he only exposed American shit. Yeah.

If he would have exposed Chinese and Russian shit, just as much as he exposed American shit, it wouldn't be, he may be not, he might not have that same position on Julian Assad, that same, that same view on him. But he was only anti-American. People should turn off this podcast real quick and go listen to that latest one you did with him. Yeah. Yeah. Because that was an unbelievable podcast.

The last one, you just did on like Ukraine and all that. Yeah, yeah. Where this conversation happened. That podcast, like, I was thinking about that one a lot. And I didn't understand the word. You were saying like the levels of society. But once you started explaining that, this was one of the key moments of the podcast where I was like, whoa. His point was like right now everyone is like, we're losing our freedoms.

We're losing our freedoms. And we don't have freedom of speech. We don't have this freedom to do that. We're wearing our mask. We're taking my freedoms. And, you know, he's like, you have to. The only people that are truly free is that tribe on that island. off the coast of Africa

that have nothing but spears. And he's like, you have to, if you want to be a part and participate in this community that we've created, you have to be okay with giving up freedoms. You know what his argument was? It was the ultimate swallow the pill argument.

Like, that's how I pictured it. Because it was a galaxy brain argument that maybe they came up at the CIA headquarters and he very well retweeted himself there. I don't know. But I like how that guy talks. I appreciate how blunt he is. I mean, he really says a lot of shit on your podcast that,

similarly to Jim from his perspective and whatever, I'm like, wow, like, I can't believe he's saying that. But that one sent me spinning. Because it's the bad, and I could see, like, let's assume he is speaking for the good people. at the CIA or in the government, right? And I always try to use this example, but you have to remember these agencies, for every 10 people who are in the room,

nine of them might be great people who are like there for the right reasons, good people all about freedom of America, trying to do their job to protect our interests, even if once in a while, like they overstep something, they don't think of it that way and they're not going after domestic people, you know and they're trying to protect

like their intentions are good but if you have one bad person out of those 10 that's all it takes you know like oh now we're allowed to do this we're going to take it a mile farther which is whatever Snowden talked about and that's why I disagree with a lot of Andrew's

overall opinions on guys like Snowden and Assange however I appreciate that he doesn't there was one argument that's the usual lazy argument with Snowden. Like, he did the right thing the wrong way. I've heard that one before.

But the rest of it, he makes you think because he's putting the ball in your court and saying, well, which one do you want? Like, you can't. And I guess the point is he tells you, unfortunately, there's nothing that exists that is 100%. And actually, in the scope of the world, he's right about that. It's like, there's good and there's bad. you're never going to have a perfect situation.

So he's saying, are you willing to give up a couple of these things, which immediately, when you say, are you willing to give up? A bunch of people out there go, you will not a fridge all my rights. Exactly, exactly. Right away. Like, fuck this deep state shit. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know why I do that in a southern accent, but it's always funny.

Because they all have Southern accents. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, they immediately go to that. But his intent with that, like, you just laid out what he said on Assange. he is statistically right that Assange's stories more target are the ire is the United States government now here's the double edge of that on the one hand

you want to be honest to improve right you can say hey we're great this is a great place democracy freedom America we love it but we want to fix some things too we don't do everything right so how do you do that you draw attention to it. How do you draw attention to it? A guy like Julian Assange exists and draws attention to it. At the CIA, you recognize that all these other countries around the world, they don't have these out-of-bounds lines to play. No. So who are you trying to protect the American people

against every day? Trying to protect them against China, against Russia. Name the big countries, right, who don't have these rights. And you know that if China doesn't like something that said, they just kill you. And you're pissed off because China, just using that example, they're the biggest one, communist government doesn't have freedom of speech, doesn't have all this shit, what do they do? They use their money and their influence

to take advantage of the fact that we do. So we can share this stuff. And so then it puts the focus on us and makes us divide from within, rather than keeping the focus on them and killing people for stealing a truck. chocolate bar or not preventing or not allowing people to say the words Houston Rockets on social media because Darrell Mori said something about Hong Kong.

Right. Right. So now the focus comes on the American citizens are online talking about America. And again, for the right reasons, we want to improve things that are bad. But then the CIA or these other places realize that then the focus is off the target. And they want to get the focus back on the target. And they just want people to shut the fuck up and know that like, hey, we're going to fix a few of these things, even if they're not, which is the danger, right? Like, took 11 years before Edward Snowden was the guy who came out and said something.

No one ever said anything. You know, they violated the Constitution. Right. Thanks to Dick Cheney for like 11 years. Patriot Act. Yes. Started with that. Went to Stellar Wind.

Boom, boom, boom, boom. And finally someone said, okay, we're going to talk about this. Right. And so that's why, like, his side note, his argument. about he did the right thing the wrong way. Number one, I'll bet there were at least a couple people who brought that up before the right way. You never heard from him.

Maybe they were never heard from again. True. I also don't see how that gives countries like Russia or China an advantage over us or how it puts us in danger to those countries by saying that the U.S. government's spying on its own people. He's saying that by holding our government to a way higher standard than we hold theirs because it's here.

It's on our turf. It's our people. We're all about optimism, freedom, democracy. By doing that, you are taking away our ability to keep our eye on the prize and do our job and operate in a way that, by the way, includes fucking up elections and putting other people in office. Like the same shit we accuse people of doing here, which they do interfere in our election process through like the Internet and things like that. Like, as far as Russia and China will put out all kinds of social media information to get people talking.

Like, this is backed by data. Renee, the rest, has been on every podcast in the world talking about it. Right. We act like, oh, they're the only ones doing that. But we do that too. And when we're doing it, this is where good and evil, it's like, well, what is good and evil? Is it good? You know, if we stop, like, some crazy dictator from going into power, that's supposed to be good, right? But what is, what if we're not good?

It gets really complicated. And so what he's saying is, if you make us play to such a higher standard in the intelligence universe, the under the ground, like, spooky stuff, we're going to lose to these guys because they don't have to play by those rules. Right. And as much as I disagree with the idea, because I'm very glad, I love what Edward Snowden did. Very much of brilliant reporting, by the way, by Glenn Gras. Greenwald and Laura Portrace and everything. I love that we got that, which we did more with it as a people, kind of forgot about it.

But, you know, it's hard for me to not also understand where he's coming from with that. You know, and so I get here and I'm like, and this happens all the time with me, it probably drives some people nuts when they listen to the podcast and we have issues like this. Like, I see it both ways. I really do. Like, that's my curse in life. Like, I don't really. It can be both ways.

Both things can be true, like you said. Yeah, yeah. But that was, you getting him to lay that out? That was like some of the best podcast content I've ever heard because I was like, I was walking my dog, and I didn't realize we were like seven miles into the walk. I didn't even know where the fuck I was. And I'm just like thinking about, I'm like, oh shit, I got to go back.

But it was just like, you have to give it to him. He laid out a very difficult, which pill you take in scenario. Right. doesn't mean he's right. But I also couldn't definitively say he's all wrong. What was the project Solar Wind? What was it called SolarWinds? Stellar Winds.

What was that one? It's so fucked up, man. Stellar Wind was essentially, I don't know, is it a project or a code? I don't know what the term is, but it's the thing that Snowden exposed. So after the Patriot, I think Stellar Wind, now I'm going to forget it on camera here. But I think Stellar Wind was the one where... Wartless surveillance programs under the doors of the woods. Exactly. Exactly.

So this was Dick Cheney's baby. Of course. Right. And it allowed them to basically spy on anyone at will. So all these things we have sitting in front of us, even when it's off, I think unless it's powered down. Still a hot mic. I can hear everything we say right now. I mean, I'm fucked.

I don't buy you. I'm fucked. But, you know, there's a lot of people out there who say, I don't give a fuck what they have because I'm not doing anything wrong. I hear you. I think the same way, even if I say fucked up shit sometimes and throw out crazy ideas when I'm high. But by and large, everyone's going to say something wrong on there. It's just like in the future, like, what could be done with that?

We see context. Like, how much shit it's taken out of context. what happens when you know the Orwellian world if that were ever a thing actually happens right is that used do you want them having that power do you care that technically and I say the word technically there because I'm looking at it like maybe from Bustamante's point of view technically we're infringing on your constitutional rights completely but we're not doing anything with it we're only going after the goddamn terrorist that's what he said who's Now watch this drive. Now watch this. Can we put that clip in the corner? Let's play that real quick. Find the George W. Bush interview about terrorism on the golf course.

That is the best thing ever. I generally blame that administration on Dick Cheney. However, George Bush did hire him. I will forever say, though, George Bush, dark as this is, was funny as far. I don't know that he tried to be. No, he was humorous, yeah Just looking at him and listen to him His facial, the way he moved his mouth

As I We will find you And we will kill you If you're not with us You're with the terrorists The best is Now watch this drive The best is the mission accomplished

Picture bomb I'm like two weeks over the war We're done fellas 20 years later Oh my God Oh what an administration Wait till you watch that fucking 9-11 in documentary I sent you.

Yeah, yeah, you keep telling me, I gotta watch that. Yeah, this is it. This is it. Yes. Press play. You might have to fast forward a little bit. Absolutely, fantastic. You gotta press play. There you go. If you're harboring terrorists. There you go. Skip.

You're either with us or against us. Yeah. How long is this? Oh, it's a minute. Where is this at? I don't know. That's a good question. No, it's not. Florida. Oh, it's already funny. Is that just dad? Delaware, the place you golfed at.

Delaware? Not him. Here it is. Look at the hands. Are there Q cards up back there? I think they're on. Well, there's just a random press conference on the ninth hole. Watch this. He's ad-living.

Holy shit! I've got to see the drive now. Oh, that is, yeah, there's like a video cut where they cut right to the drive. He fucking pipes this thing right down the fair. Look at a finish Oh, he's reaching for the maybe mulligan He's reloading.

He's reloading. Sitting back, not giving a fuck in the world. Just imagine. That's a nice fucking golf course. Look at that. Yeah, where is that? Does it say in the description? I wonder what golf course, though.

It's in Iraq. Yeah, golf course in Iraq. No, it's not going to be. I know where that was. But still. Like that's typical Bush, man I don't know He was a sound bite everywhere

He's in a He's in a J-Cole song too Is he? At the drop, which song is that? Where he's like I'll tell you one Ful me one, shame on me Ful me twice

Shame on you Damn on you He does have some of the best fucking quotes Of all time What was And then the Kanye West While he was in office George Bush hates black people

And he's just like Kanye staring at the screen And Mike Myers is like oh fuck Operation Kino Like Oh my God Wasn't that during like S&L or something I don't know It was some live feed or so it was like a live

It was like a live feed or something Could you imagine Bush In the social media era I mean we saw it with Trump And what that was I mean we're seeing it with Biden again But like a mass

Imagine that guy with that situation. Yeah, it was... Yeah, it was... The stakes were so insane when that all happened. Oh, yeah. Mems would have been awesome. Yeah. I wish I was like paying attention to shit back then.

Yeah. You know? I was really young, but... I wonder what it was like... Like, do you think there was a lot of... A lot of people aware of all the bullshit going on? Like, nowadays, when you see shit happen, like this Russia-Ukraine thing going on. There's so many different views.

There's not one narrative. There's fucking, like, 14 narratives. about this whole, this whole conflict going on. I wonder if it was like that in the pre-social media days, like during the, during 9-11 and the war on terror, like, was there people actively thinking, like, wow, this could have been an inside job, you know, this could be all a fucking, you know.

There were a few people, yeah, sure. There was, well, there's been out there for everybody to see it. There were some. Yeah, because people, you can't share ideas. Ideas can't go as viral as they do now. No, no. I mean, it didn't, the internet was www. Whateverthe-Fuck.com at the time.

You know, like there was, it was like the dial-up speed so it wasn't like that but yeah I know there were some people right away I mean just statistically there had to be it's just I can't imagine dealing with that in the social media era

and like you talk about what the narratives were compared to what we're seeing outside right now with Russia Ukraine I mean look at how many senators and congressmen supported the war not the war in Afghanistan which even today I could say like yeah yeah I

to go, the Taliban was harboring these guys, like you had to go over there. The war in Iraq, though, look at all the people who voted for that. This was a bipartisan thing. Right. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was skewed. Right. And there may be some, like, typical stereotypical politicians who are still in office today who suck, but there were a few, even among the ones who suck, who actually did vote against that. And I will give them credit for that.

Maybe they did it for the wrong reasons, but they did. They voted against it, yeah. Because, like, you know, David Satter and I were talking about this and the whole WMD thing. And he's like, well, you know, the Israeli and Russian intelligence both thought there were WMD there too. And I'm like, yeah, but hindsight's 2020. But our intelligence, like, we knew it was bullshit. We knew it was like a no percent chance. They talked about Iraq, like the night of 9-11.

They're like, well, Iraq definitely has something to do with this. Right. And the thing is, like, Trump said more stupid shit than you could ever count on the campaign trail in 2015, 2016. There were a couple things he said that were kind of inarguable, though. And it was funny, too, because he's just a comedic kind of guy. But, like, he said, I remember this line. He would repeat this over and over, like all his other lines. But he would say, Saddam Hussein, bad guy, bad guy, killed terrorists.

Bad guy, killed terrorists. You know, we shouldn't have done that. and it is true Saddam was an awful human being he was a genocidal maniac right and this is the horrible we can relate this to what's going on right now too by the way but like

this is the horrible reality unfortunately there are some really bad people in the world and you can't technically police all of them at all times like what happens within someone's borders sometimes like the will of the people just like communism eventually fell

like David was saying it was like 15% of the Soviet Union society that was responsible for that happening. That's all it took. Sometimes the will of the people, even in a small percentage for good, has to rise up to stop like the absolute epitome of evil, whatever that evil is. And like with Saddam, he wasn't friends with Al-Qaeda.

In fact, he didn't like them. He killed him. Right. Right. So it had nothing to do with 9-11. It was a money thing, for sure. I mean, everything's money, to be honest. But, you know, it was a...

You talk about like the Dwight Eisenhower's speech on the military industrial complex. I mean, there you go. That's what it was. And like, I mean,

did you see the movie Vice? Adam McKay did it? No. A few years ago? No, I heard about it. Yeah, now, obviously, anytime someone really biased

does something, people discredit it or whatever. Right. So I guess Adam McKay is like very, very, very liberal or whatever. But like, he did a movie on Dick Cheney. You know, some of it probably took.

a little comedic effect because it was supposed to be kind of funny like dark comedy but very accurate man really yeah like very very what does he talk about it just walks you through his life and like how it all happened and again take some comedic stretches but this guy was just i mean he was in control in that white house i don't know what kind of pictures he had a george w bush he has some because i mean thing people don't talk about. And like when they did the 20-year documentary where Bush was in it, Cheney was in it, everyone was in it on Apple this past year

for September 11th. You know, there's more than credible evidence. It's kind of obvious that Dick Cheney broke the ultimate law on September 11th. He ordered the shooting down of a civilian jet if it was

coming towards Washington, D.C. And they asked him because the president was not incapacity. He was in Air Force One. So the vice president is not acting president right now. Right. And they said, is this a presidential order? And he, and he like without saying it, kind of, I guess like, kind of like Aaron Rogers was like, I've been immunized.

He did the same. I've been presidentialized or like something. And he hadn't been. He should have been out of office right there. And he wasn't. When he ordered the shootdown of a commercial jet if it was flying towards the White House? If it was flying towards, I think he gave whatever the military go-ahead was, and people please Google this to check this out exactly what it was. But he gave the military go-ahead, I believe, for the fighter jets that were in the sky to actively shoot down a civilian jet that wouldn't respond or something to Air Force control.

Right. And that's, you know, and it sounds, even for him, it was a heavy thing, but like he gave the order. Right. And it wasn't, he wasn't allowed to do that. I've never heard that. Yeah. And like, they talk about it openly. Like, see, what I, what I heard was, especially in that 9-11 documentary, they talk about how he gave specifically in order to not shoot down the jets that, the jet that was coming towards the Pentagon.

The jet that was coming towards the Pentagon Did some crazy big loop And it was not communicating VFR for like a long time And they knew something was fishy with that plane With the flight that it was take The flight path that it was taking And there was a communication with a guy that was under Cheney Who

They were in some sort of like a command room And they talk about the kid He was a kid at the time He keeps coming into the command room where Chaney was in He goes, sir, the plane is 50 miles out and he's like, okay,

stand by. So the kid goes back in the other room and comes back, you know. About the Pentagon plane? About the Pentagon. Yeah, then he's like, he's like, okay, the plane is 30 miles out. Does the order still stand? He's like, yes. The kid disappears.

And this is all recorded. And this was, this was, this was, this whole situation was, um, talked about like, during the 9-11 commission and like in front of Congress or all that kind of shit. Like they really interviewed the guy that was in the room and he talked about it and he changed his story.

And he comes in again. He's like, okay, the plane is 10 miles out. Does the order still stands? Or does the order still stand? Like he was like panicking visually like sweating. And Dick Cheney was like, yes, the order still stands. Like Bart like yelled at him and never ordered to have the plane shot down

or anything like that. Like there was an order to not have the plane shot down. Now I have to see this. I have not seen this documentary. I still have to watch this. But off the top of my head, there's a lot of time, there's a lot time back here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm loosely paraphrasing what was happening, but that was the gist of it. I believe this could be a situation. It could be, I don't know, I have to see it where they are re, where they're changing the context, because I believe the context was, this is all recorded. And he was saying this about the

jet that was approaching, like that you have the order to shoot it down if it gets closer, and then it never came to that because something happened in Shanksville. They took it down, right? The people took it down. Like they turned the plane right down into the ground. Unless conspiracy hat on, it did get shot down. We just never admitted that. In this documentary, they basically tried to prove that the plane that came down in Pennsylvania

in that big open field, that that was shot down by a jet. It would be very, very hard to cover up. That would be so, so... Now, look, it's been done before. You can ask Jim about TWA 800. You should ask him about that. Is that with that flight? 96.

Okay. The one that flew up. He was on that investigation. I believe his job was... One of his main jobs was to interview all the expert pilots, like, that they could get their hands on and run through every scenario and every... single pilot to a T told him it got shot down and that's not what the official story was so it's

not like this hasn't happened but I believe that was like over the ocean or something maybe I'm not sure about that I have to check that but we're talking about the same plane right that was TWA 800 in 1996 I believe oh right okay so I was talking about the one on September 11 I know so I'm coming back to September 11th now this was overland right now best possible type of area for the least amount of people is a more rural area, but it was overland. They'd have to cover every witness there and get them quiet in an open society. You know, there's shit that happens, but like this is still an open society. There were cameras everywhere.

The media would have to be in on it, period, which, you know, some cynics would say, well, that's not hard, but this was a different time, you know, and the power of the media was not as what the internet wasn't the thing. Like, it wasn't as coordinated. It didn't have the ability to be at that. the time. So like, furthermore, the evidence on the ground, like, there's so much that has to be there. But, like, here's what I always say with the 9-11 thing. And again, I got to watch the one you tell me. But I think we have been so fucked over six ways to Sunday over the last 20 years

in a way that our nation hasn't been fucked over since the Great Depression and before that the Civil War and before that the Revolutionary War, that of course, naturally, we all turn to things to try to make sense of it and speak truth to power and call out where bad things happen, which we should do, by the way. That's a positive trait.

I try to live like here, though, where I listen to a guy like Andrew, who I think has the right intentions, obviously smart guy, talented guy. And I try to listen with a, critical ear and a grain of salt and a guy like Jim too you know and also try to hear where there's truth where there's not bias right there's some things where there's not with september 11th i think one of the things that we got to remember is that like everything that's

complicated which is most things in this world there's a lot of things that are true at the same time so it can be true that planes flew into buildings and the people who who were in power might have been horrified at you know that day and what happened but they took advantage of it they did a whole bunch of shit that

they had you know deep state had wanted to do for a long time caused ground altering precedents to happen that we have to live with today and we've seen all the tentacle after effects of this at the same time and this part

is true this is confirmed you ever seen the looming tower no Okay, this was a book and then it was a 10-part mini-series on Hulu, like five years ago. I think I watched the first episode. All right. Phnominal. Okay.

So this is true. The FBI and the CIA did not get along. Right, right. Right? Right. So part of the reason I look at it, I'm like not an inside job is because we do have a record. The CIA, C.I. Cofer Black and another guy who has a fake name because he's undercover to this day with the CIA.

went to the White House on, I think it was July 6th, 2001. It was sometime in July, two months before. We have the minutes. We have the write-up. They're saying they're coming here. It's happening. Right, right, right. They knew it.

The problem was Alex Station, which was the bin Laden unit at the CIA, would meet with the counterterrorism FBI unit, the National Security Advisor, I think his name was Richard or William Clark, something like that. And some of the generals, every week in Washington, to share information. And the guy who represented the FBI was a guy named John O'Neill, who is the basis of the looming tower. You can ask Jim about him.

He didn't have the greatest reputation because he was a ladies' man. He had like three wives at the same time. It was kind of interesting. Like, guy of the night, brash, didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. But he was a pretty good agent. But he was a cop. Like, he wanted the arrest. He wanted the arrest.

How does CIA operate? They want information. They see a guy that they get in and they don't want to put handcuffs on them. They want to say, we got you six ways to Sunday. You work for us now. Yeah. Right. And now they get to a bigger fish.

Right. So naturally, John O'Neill, CIA, didn't get along. So the CIA, and we know this, this is a fact. The CIA did not share a lot of information with the FBI, including when some of these targets entered America, which, and righteously so, this is where you will get people to come in and be like, they made it happen and all that. The thing is, so many things had to go right that day that they would have never left out of their control.

Like these guys had to successfully get through every level of security where we know they had a couple close calls. We know for a fact that the guy up in Maine on the initial flight at 6 a.m., almost stopped Muhammad Atta and didn't let him on the jet. CIA would have never let that happen. Like this would have been like, oh yeah, these guys are going right through. They would have had their own stand in there at the TSA. And then, you know, we saw the planes go in.

The one people always talk about is the Pentagon because there's only one weird, you know, 140 pixel footage of it. And you came and really see a plane. Right. But, you know, we saw, my favorite people are the ones who were like, those weren't planes going into Twin Towers. Like, dude, we have a trillion angles of it. I'll show you. They're definitely planes. It was a plane, right?

So all these things can be true at the same time. And then the government, the bad actors in the government, in which case I would argue the people in power, that was some of the most corrupt inside government we've ever had at one time, I think, at least of what we know in history. You look at Cheney, you look at Rumsfeld. You look at all these guys, right? They took advantage of it, and then they made money off it. It went to Iraq. It wasn't good enough to go to Afghanistan. Right.

You know, we did a great job in Afghanistan for five minutes before, you know, without getting bin Laden. That was the one thing that sucked, you know, for like symbolism purposes. We eventually got him. But then, you know, one thing Obama said that he was spot on about is he's like, we took our eye off the ball. No, it's easy to say that seven years later, you know, politically easy to say. But it's true. We start focusing on Iraq. And now look what happened with Afghanistan.

You know, it's really sad. Like, you know, there's some extremists there. But then there's a lot of innocent people who were caught in the middle of this, who were never given a chance. Once we did go in there, it's like, well, now they can be liberated. They can go to school. They don't have to live in this crazy society. And we allowed a power vacuum to form because we took away our resources from there. And we sent them somewhere for, you know, Bush wanted to finish his dad's job.

I don't know what the fuck. Who knows? But a lot of things can be true at the same time. And I just always try to keep that in mind. So, like, I'll watch. I'll look at something like that because I'm always curious. But I don't, I've, that's one I've never put credence into. You know, you want to talk Epstein.

Of course. Like, that guy didn't kill himself. You know, there's certain things that are just, you can tell. Like, they make it so obvious, which is sad that people can't see that. Who is the latest person that killed themselves? John Luke Burnell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the French model agency. guy. Now, you want to know about that one? That's so interesting to me. Jeffrey Epstein killed himself

in the wee hours of a Saturday morning in August. August is statistically, I believe, the slowest news month of the year. We know that Saturday, after 10 p.m. on Friday before 1 or 2 p.m. on Saturday. That is the slowest statistical news time of the week. This man killed himself at 2 a.m. in a jail. I'm looking at their phones or watching the news. Yeah. In a jail. where the camera's malfunction The security wasn't there The acting or the attorney general at the time's father Is the guy who gave this dude his first job ever

Like you can't make this shit up And at least people were somewhat on it then So now John Luke Brunel Spends whatever it was Two years almost a year Whatever it was In some French prison So not here

He kills himself in the wee hours of a Saturday morning In France On the weekend of President's weekend in America, so it's a three-day weekend. In the early morning hours without a camera on. He knew where all the bodies were buried, were a lot of them.

Right. That week, Russia invades Ukraine. Fitting. Very, very fitting. You know, like, what do you think of that whole thing, Epstein? I don't know, man. I don't fucking know. I think

that there's some definite fucking espionage going on probably I think he was definitely some sort of spy you know the whole the whole thing that fascinates me is is how the fuck is Geelaine getting through all the shit that she is getting

through like she's getting she went through that whole entire trial and do you know what with the with the verdict of that like what it ended up happening with her trial isn't she going to go back isn't she getting some sort of appeal well now apparently a juror may have Right. So there was a juror that, right.

When did her verdict come out? I don't remember. I forgot this one. It came out on, I believe it was Wednesday evening, December 29th. Okay. The slowest news week of the year. In an evening, two days before New Year's Eve on a year where New Year's Eve even falls on Friday. So the New Year's is on Saturday.

January 2nd is on Sunday. don't even get back into the swing of things until January 3rd and it's five days old and no one paid attention. So no one gave a shit that the judge sealed all the files. They're sealed. Go on. And also that judge and this one, what do you mean sealed the file? She sealed the Epstein records. It cannot be released. Like the things that were not presented. Yeah, that were not presented at trial. are like Kennedyed. They're JFK'd. Really?

Yeah. So. When else has that happened besides JFK? It's a good question. I mean, it's happened. Okay. I don't know.

But it's, there's other things we could think of. Because there's national security implications. Yeah, I think they did some of that for the 9-11 commission report. I could be wrong about that, though, awesome.

That might, you might want to check that. But yeah, like, they're telling you what they're doing. Now, are there, First of all, are there other Epstein's out there that we don't know about?

Yes. Do governments around the world? Do crazy shit like this? Yes. Do we know who he worked for for sure? No. But he was the most public. I mean, he was in New...

I walked past his house. Really? He's right in Central Point. He's on like 69's treated... No, it's not 69. I didn't mean to do that. I'm sorry. Does it have that little

J.E. Yes. I want to say it's like 71st Street or something on the Upper East Side though. It's like right there pretty dangerously close to 69. But,

you know, he, I went back and I was looking at this a couple months ago after his trial. And I'm like, when did this start? Like, we saw the story creep up in 2015.

And then the lawsuit, came in in 2017 and people were talking about a little bit then 2019 boom like he's in jail and then he's dead like the whole thing i'm like when did they report on this guy first though i'm like well we know about the 2002 flight so you i had known that you go google it you'll see stories in like vanity fair and stuff like early stuff about him he first popped on people's radar in seemingly like 2002 and what popped them on was that flight with bill clinton kevin spacy and and chris Tucker to Africa. What a fucking flight.

What a flight. So I'm like, okay. Where can I find a story where this was reported? Because every time they would talk about it, it would be in a story from 2015. Like the famous 2002 flight. And I googled 2002 flight with all kinds of

keywords and like the quotes to try to separate stuff out. And I could never find a story from like October 1st, 2002. Clinton on flight with billionaire, mysterious billionaire. I can never find that. And so then I found, I think it was in the New Yorker, did a big piece on October, I think it was October 28th, 2002. And I went and found the flight log first. And the flight log

has it, it was like September 21st or September 22nd, 2002, where it has this flight. And it has the names written down, President Bill Clinton, Chris Tucker, Kevin Spacey on the logs that his pilot physically wrote down, because that's available online. And so then in the this New Yorker or whatever was piece, they say, the mysterious billionaire came on people's radar when page six reported. So page six in the New York Post, boom, there it is. They're the ones who reported this flight. So I go to page six.

I go to archives. There are archives of every month from 1999 when they started putting it online through today, except in 2002 and 2003, including September and I believe October 2002 are not in there there's seven months missing from 2002 and five from 2003 right after the story and then there's one month missing in 2004 there's not a single month missing including 1999 2000 2001 to present death wow so when this would have been reported you can't even get that so what I wonder with him is like we always

wonder like what is a secret that's too big that humanity or society at least, whatever relevant society, like, couldn't handle it. If you found out that governments, whoever they are, made a trade-off where they said, we're going to allow, not allow, we're going to enable someone to be a total pervert for the next 40, 50 years. And here's what we're going to get out of it for civilization over the next 1,000 years. Some of these people, they look crazy. They're thinking about the survival of...

certain ethnic groups in different countries around the world into the future. And so they're looking at like, well, how do we make sure all of us survive, right? Do they sit in a room and say, yeah, we'll sacrifice the lives of 50,000 girls effectively over the next five decades to get this kind of information, to get, not just information, get this leverage over people so that we can control what happens? And I start to put that together and I'm like, I could see people convince us. themselves to make that trade in a room, just dark room like this, with the top people, the president of a country, prime minister, whatever, you know, the head of intelligence in his right hand, the head, probably not even the head police chief, like a very select group of like,

the highest level figures saying, are we going to make this, what's the line in glorious bastards? You make that deal? I'll make that deal, right? Like, they might. And then it's a question of, well, who would do? that. I don't think this one was the CIA. I have other thoughts on that. But I don't know. I know as much as the next fucking person. We don't, no one knows. It's just so mysterious because they allowed this one,

this is why he's interesting. They allowed him to get so public that it's right there in front of your face. Yeah. And yet, you can touch him, but you can't, you can't feel it. Right, right, right. You know, but there's, there was a guy. You ask anyone about this in government. They're going to know his name. This guy Adnan Keshoggi. You ever hear him? See the arms dealer?

Yep. Dude. I was had a... Oh my God. I can't even say this on the podcast. I'm going to say it after. Oh, no. You can't do that.

I can't implicate one of my guests. Okay, fair. But I just fucking learned who this guy was like two days ago. I heard the craziest fucking stories. Okay. Remind me. Don't let me forget about this. Get David to dig deeper on him.

I didn't... We got off it because I wanted to go somewhere else. when I had him on. But Adnan Khashoggi was an arms dealer from Saudi who wasn't, I don't think he had any blood of the royal family. I think

he was like he got in with them early. And he's known to every government agency because he lived in New York and a tower and other places around the world. And it was reported that

he was, Jeffrey, Because one of the things Adnan and Khashoggi had, yeah, was he was apparently also like a sex trafficker and like a really I don't know if this is how you say it, but like a good one like someone who knows what they're doing at least. There's no good sex trafficker. Professional sex trafficker. Yes, professional. Like he was talented at it, I should say. So very evil guy. And he in in 1999 this is where it like all starts to come together and you're like how far does this shit go like is there anything that this doesn't tie to ever fucking end no

so I read in David's book and context for people don't know David satyr had him on my podcast I think you're going to have him on this one too he was is the reporter who blew the whistle on Putin 25 years ago he's an American reporter he is is to this day the only Western non-Russian reporter who has ever been kicked out of Russia. He was actually kicked. He was the last reporter they let back in after the Soviet Union fell because he had been kicked out.

And he was the first reporter and only reporter they kicked out. Because he was the Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times and then the Wall Street Journal since like 1976. The guy has lived his whole life in and around Russia until he got kicked out in late 2013. And he's like, the guy on Vladimir Putin. And the thing that he got on Putin, the first big story he broke on him that no one listened to, literally no one, in this country or anywhere, was that Putin rose to power in September 1999 by bombing a bunch of apartments around Russia in Moscow and two other cities. And he killed hundreds of his own people. And he said, well, how did this bring him to power? Because they blamed it, it's a typical false flag event.

They blamed it on Chechen rebels. and he effectively, this is late 1999, Putin was named Prime Minister, the president Boris Yeltsin, his term was about to be over. The election was going to be the next year. Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin, his sidekick's approval rating was 2%. Not only were they not going to win when Putin ran, but they were at risk of being thrown in jail for corruption or like killed by the people because Russia was a power vacuum.

So they do this false flag event. David could tell you about how he got that. story and everything, but he got it. And they say the Chechens did it. They start the second Chechen war. Yeltsin resigns three months early to, or whatever it was, five months early, to make Putin an incumbent. So people get used to him as president. He's the wartime leader.

They have success in the war. And suddenly people are like, oh, this guy's strong. We like them. 60% approval rating moves up the election two months or three months from June to March in 2000, wins the rest is history. David had this story. Alexander Litvinenko, the former KGBFSB agent,

had this story. Putin killed him, as we know, in London, with Polonium in 2006. He was a Russian who had it. David was the Western reporter. They both had it. And nobody listened, but I found in one of his books, he wrote really offhand,

didn't seem to think anything of it when he wrote it, But the way they got the Chechen thing to happen is they created like a fake invasion of Dagestan by a certain sect of Chechen rebels about a month before the bombings in 1999. And what happened was, by and large, the Chechen shot their way into Dagestan, which is a country over there. And then the Russians came in to defend. And after a while, the Chechens basically just picked up their bags and they left. And as they left, the Russians didn't shoot them. Just let them leave. Like, nothing happened.

And so then there was some sort of, like, disagreement that happened publicly out of that, which then caused the Chechens to bomb the buildings. They created, like a, they created a false flag event to get the false flag event to happen. And what David uncovered is that there was a secret meeting in Monaco or Nice, like somewhere in there. at Adnan Khashoggi's house between the Chechens and representatives from the inner workings of the Russian government where the Dagestan,

I think that's how you're supposed to say it, the Dagestan invasion was cooked up. And I'm just like, where does this end, man? Holy shit. Like, where the fuck does this end? Khashoggi, and this guy is apparently, how was he tied to fucking Epstein and John Luke Brunel? He's, he was Epstein.

He was Epstein's mentor. He was Epstein? Yeah. He was a guy who allegedly trained. I don't know if you can even, is that what you call it? I never heard this guy's name until the other day. I heard, what's up with the guy, the Victoria's Secret guy, Les.

Lex, Lex Wexner. I thought that was his, like, one of his mentors. He was like, allegedly like a financial mentor, but I think, and I don't think anyone knows, but they think that, like, like Jeff had some blackmail on him or they were just in on it together. And so Lex, is it Lex or Les? Less. It's Les Wexner. Yeah. So whoever, Victoria's Secret dude.

Yeah, running a company with a bunch of girls in their panties all day. Neither here nor there. Right? But he allowed Jeff to manage all his money. Did you also know, though, that before Jeffrey Epstein died, after Steve Bannon got fired by Trump he interviewed Jeffrey Epstein on camera in his house I think for 18 hours

Steve Bannon did No I had no fucking clue Where do you find this shit Do you do anything but research I don't know man This this I went down this rabbit hole though Like two months ago Steve Bannon

Austin I don't know if you can find this clip It's on YouTube If you type in Steve Bannon Epstein he released for some documentary he's got Steve Bannon's crazy

but he he's got some documentary coming out they used to think he was Q queuing on oh god but he has some documentary coming out go down type in

go back up and just add times up with times with an apostrophe is it even on here anymore hold on uh all right

type in Steve Bannon Epstein interview Yeah, that first one. Yeah. It's gotta still be on here. Go down. Go down. The crazy thing about...

It's like a minute. Okay, there it is. There it is. See the teaser with Epstein? Oh, wow, right there. Dude. Try not to laugh when you hear this. Click this. Only two minutes long.

Yeah. This is a trailer for his documentary. There's the J.E. That woman's reporting on this is the best by far, the 60 Minutes Australia lady. You got that on camera. That was it.

That's the whole thing of Epstein talk. What does that mean? Times Up, you know, the Times Up, like Me Too Movement? Like, Times Up? Oh, I didn't know Times Up was part of that. Yeah, it was like some trending hashtag with it, I think.

Times Up. Yeah, it was like, Times Up for male supremacy or whatever the fuck it was. And he's like, I'm a huge belief. He's got like the New York accent and everything. He's like, he's like a normal guy sitting in his house. He's like, I'm a huge belief in. Times up. Didn't he, wasn't he like really into, I forget the word now, but like he wanted to like spread basically his DNA throughout.

I heard that. What is, I forget what the, uh, there's a word for that when you like. Is it eugenics? Eugenics. Yeah, eugenics. He wanted to like, I think that's why he bought, he said, and this is a report, but like he bought the Zorro ranch so that he could spawn with Lepsy. Right. The dude was crazy, man.

He was like a racist bastard, too. Like, he would just, he looked down on anyone who wasn't white completely. Like, he made, he just made, he made shit up about, like, the physicality of people who are other races. I don't remember specific examples. But he was just, yeah, he was like this awful, awful. Like, if you could create an awful human being, like, Adolf Hitler, Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, that's kind of, that's, that's where we're at for some of the same. I guess also maybe some different reasons.

My thought on that is there's a lot of people like those guys. But the difference is when you give them that amount of money, when they have that amount of money and unlimited resources, then they act on that fucking on who they are. You know what I mean? Where does it change them? I don't think it changes them. I think it makes them more of who they already are.

I think that's probably right. I think there's definitely. It's a magnifying glass. I think there's definitely people like that. I also, I should say, I think there are also people who they get access to something. Some impetus is put in front of them after having money and connections, right?

And then they decide that they didn't dislike whatever it was that just happened. And it's the smallest thing. Or it's a bigger thing. And then they do it again. They do it again. Then they do it more. Right.

And they like it. Right. And they keep going. I think that's definitely a thing. But you're right. Right. There's people who are probably molded to be the worst of the worst, and they decide not to be a serial killer,

so we just never see it. Right. I think you're right about that. But he's just like, I don't know, I'd always thought about it, but I was never one of these, like, I wasn't sitting there listening to the podcast or anything, like going back and forth. I'm like, this is just fucked up. And then that trial, just something about it just, of course, offended me.

And I was just like looking all through. it and I'm like this is the De Geilane trial? Yeah And I'm just putting the timeline I thought to myself I'm like I wonder if I like Pass this guy on the street right In New York yeah statistically

I used to walk up to 83rd and second all the fucking time From Midtown I like to walk in the city I'm like statistically I might have How freaky is that You might have just like Walk by this Never know

Just do yeah with all these secrets I never knew houses like that even existed. I never knew there was like these like, there was like townhouses but they're fucking mansions when you get inside of them. And they're right on the main roads in New York. I answer to you how much, how little time I've spent in New York. They don't have people like

me in places like that, but I'll take you up to New York and I can point at him. Well, Scorsese has a place like that too. Probably. Very simple. It looks just like it from the outside. Yeah. And like again, like just because you live in a place like that doesn't mean you have. Have you seen succession on HBO? No. I have it. I've heard good things

though. It looks dead. The fucking main guy. the billionaire's house. Yeah, they got the beard. He lives in a place looks just like Epstein's house. I mean, they exist. It's like, you know, you don't know where...

You can have a great person and a bad person, right? And you can have that house and all these other things that come with whatever set of life circumstances this is. And you can go like this in a test tube scenario

and put the good person in there and, you know, that they're going to be them. You do the same thing with the bad person, they're going to be them. The thing they have in common is they've accessed all this stuff. So how do they use it? Because the good person do a lot of philanthropy. Maybe not even that. You know, just as like nice guy. Tips people, well, lives a good life, lives 80 years, dies of cancer, calls the day, right? You know, kids fight over the estate. Bad person leaves behind an island where a bunch of people got raped.

I mean, that's the... Yeah. Think about that the vibe. Have you seen the fucking video of the kid on the jet ski who's he's riding his jet ski through the Bahamas and he rides past Epstein's Island. No. And he pulls up, he pulls up and like ties his fucking ski up right in front of that like crazy looking blue and gold

building and he fucking climbs up the rock and he runs up and he's like filming himself like running across that fucking Google that video of this? Yeah fine YouTube the video of the kid who ran up on there it is. Come on.

is this? 2020? Wait, this might not be it. This kid actually jumps up on the island and like takes a selfie. No. Imagine being one of the agents there. Like, God, damn it. This isn't it.

Go back. Go back. Go to YouTube. Jim, that's going to be on the internet. Too bad. And just, just type in on YouTube. Kid runs across Epstein's Island. Epstein Island.

Island. It's like imagine having to look at that island, like being in an island close to it right now. Like you know it's there. Keep going. Type it, just type it into Google. Just type it into Google and go to images. There might be like a snapshot. I'm going to get the video off. Images. A kid recently committed suicide. Don't say that. Don't speak it into existence. Yeah, I wonder how many people have like committed suicide that are related to this that we don't know are related to this. That number is four figures. Okay, click on the picture of the blue and white stripe building.

Click on that. Now go down, scroll down to like related photos down. They're making it hard to find. Type in GoPro. You want to try duck, duck, go? Type yeah, right. Type in GoPro. He filmed it with a GoPro.

There it is. No way. Click on it, yeah. They didn't arrest them for this, did they? I don't know. This is a public service. Stress passer on Jeffrey Epstein's on. This is public service.

Trust fans. Dude, you could just pull up on a fucking boat or a jet ski and climb right up onto that little area where that's up for sale right now. Where that building is. Who the fuck is going to buy that? Somebody's going to buy it.

I want to just go trespass and just set up microphones and do a podcast real quick in front of that. Elon Musk should buy it and do a bomb test on it and take it off the face of planar. It's just be like, yeah, we're going to try a rocket from there. It's one of the ones that destructs the ground below it. Like, that place can't exist.

Do you think that we could get a way with climbing up on on that island and doing a podcast real quick like a one hour podcast? I mean they got a minute that guy probably got on there I mean if he was running quickly it was unexpected and

we have a video before security could close but like there's no way if you're on that for five minutes. What do you do if you're the security guard and you're like rolling up and you see two guys with microphones doing a podcast right in front of that fucking bill? You just have to act like you want to look on it like hey what's up man how are you? Yeah yeah. You want to hop in? This might not be

related. This might just be some fucking... This is not even related to it. You're just going to scroll down. When I'm in New York, though, next. I do, I have... Look at this kid. Come on. Oh, he's right next to the thing.

He got pictures. Oh, he even got like Instagram level pictures. Yeah. They fucking modeled in front of the... Look at this. All right. Yeah. Security would... Someone let him do this. You think? Yeah. Someone was like, you know what? It was bound up.

It said, go up. says something about his YouTube channel. Braco's YouTube videos. Notice the image running. His name's Braco. Okay. I wonder what kind of tunnels exist there. Oh my God.

How fucking crazy is that. But I do want to, I have thought about this. When I go to New York next, like I told you. I love to walk through New York. It is. When was this?

2020? Yeah, 2020. When I go there next, though. They've apparently renovated like the whole. place like a Goldman guy bought it his New York house yeah and took out the hole inside

like he I think the guy I mean it's a Goldman guy but I think he like bought it it as like a someone needs to buy this and I mean I thought they should have knocked it down he basically apparently ripped out like the whole thing but it's still sold

for a big number I wouldn't expect that I guess he's got the money to spend but I do want to like I want to go stand out I've definitely passed it before and not thought about it. Sorry. Oh, this is it. This is the actual.

Oh, he's got a part. So there's a part two. Did he go back the next day? You must have. Just fast forward to the part. They're going to have a whole intro trying to get you. See where that big spike is? It's probably right there.

Oh, I kind of get that tool. I haven't even seen that. That's just part of YouTube, I think, now. It's like a new thing they did. I guess. Oh, he's on it right now? Just two assholes. walking on to this

walking on to this like what's the word at 6.30 a.m. We were nearly compromised. 12 hours later we returned. No, they went back. Oh my God. Yo. They're definitely Epstein's nephew.

This is the ultimate prank. They did it before Jokes squad. This is what I'm saying. The security guards like leaning up from his newspaper like, eh, fuck it. Let's go. Do you think there's still security guards on the island? There's got, dude, there's got to be like CIA and fucking NSA like

Wands on there Whatever the fuck they're called Yeah but there's nothing there I mean the buildings are there dude Yeah but what are they gonna do with the building? I mean they could They're not doing this but they could hypothetically kick down the door Yeah I guess you're right

That's a window in there Is that two-way glass or one-way glass? I don't know Part two Thirteen Epstein Island too These kids are fucking crazy bro. Yeah, what are their names at B-R-A-C-O-Z?

Brac-O-Z. Yeah. Yeah, we gotta get them some more subs. We gotta get them in here. How do they only have 12,000? Yeah, you gotta get them in here. These guys need to be blown up before they're not with us anymore. So you were saying you want to take a photo in front of his house? No, no, I don't want to take a fucking photo.

Fuck that. Selfie. No, I just want to stand there and look. Like, you know, once in a while I'm a believer in that weird universe. I just want to feel if I feel something. Like there's another house, by the way, not far from Epstein's. But that's not a coincidence because New York, it's, you know, everything's tight. But there's another house, I think it's next to Michael Bloomberg's place, maybe like 72nd Street, 73rd, something like that.

Where it was like the Iraq consulate or something. And Saddam's people used to, like, torture people down there. Oh, really? And then they rip that shit. Whoever bought that, ripped that shit out. But like, there's just, that's the thing about New York. And you could say this about any place, technically, somewhere. But in New York, you walk.

down every street and this is where shit happened or is happening, right? And so there's just, it's weird, but I think about this a lot, like the environment of them, like,

something in there could have been world-changing shit. Maybe of good, maybe of good, maybe of evil, right? You walk past the Federal Reserve. Damn, I wonder who's stood in there before, you know,

what they're talking about. Yeah. And then, like, if you drive down, I-78, right next to New York where you have an unabated look of the skyline, right?

Every time I did that drive 2,000 times, maybe not, probably 1,000. But like, every time I drive down there, I just look at those fucking things. And I'd be like,

not one of those dick-looking buildings went up without the mafia okay in the cement contract on the whole fucking thing. Right. Which, you know, I'm not giving them a compliment, but it's like wild to think about that.

Like none of those went up without like Paul Castellano being like, yeah, they paid enough. Like John Gotti. Lucky Luciano back in the day. Yeah, all right, we'll build that building. Mm-hmm. Like, that's a mob. Right. You know?

And then the UN is there. Oh, I wonder who's, I wonder who's come through there. Mm-hmm. I wonder who stayed at these hotels. You know? Yeah, man. There's a fucking deep, deep, deep, dark, dark history in that town. That city.

it's good and bad good and bad right but a lot of it a lot of both a lot a lot of both man and that's like New York's like the ultimate symbol because it creates a different kind of person people from New York are so fucking different so fucking different than anywhere else you can tell automatic and it's not even just the accent it's the whole personality of somebody

I heard that one of the best expressions I ever heard that really summed it up perfectly was the difference between New York and LA. People from New York I love this is not everybody but most people they like to shit on you with a smile versus LA

they smile with and they fucking talk shit behind your back. They smile at your face. It's like fake nice in out and on the west coast and on the east coast it's they shit on you with a smile which I prefer much more to the fake nice. People are direct like I feel like

out of my element when I'm not around New York Yeah. Like, if someone, if I'm walking down the street and someone doesn't say like, fuck you, get out of the way, it's like, something's wrong here. Right, right, right, right. Hold on a minute. You're being too nice. Like, I'll come down to Florida, you know, where like my grandparents are.

And like, I walk in the store and people are like, well, how are you doing there? And I'm like, you know, a day, it's great. Two days, it's great. And then the third day, I'm like, aren't you going to be like my hair's out of place or like get the fuck out of my parking spot? Yeah. You know, there's like something. But I don't know.

There's good and bad with it, but it definitely, you get molded by the speed in New York. You can either keep up or you can't. Right. You know, when I would do business with people, talk business, whatever, no matter how serious or unsirious it was, who were from the Midwest or something like that, it drove me nuts. Because like where, like this. Right. All right. Let's get done.

Let's go. These guys, you know, tomorrow exists. And you know what? Next Wednesday, that exists too. Yeah, yeah. And would you like to come over for supper? the following Monday And it's like

That's so true It's like what are we doing Hold on a minute You know let's handshake And get the fuck on with it Like let's spit on and a go But New York is the ultimate Like even more

Because I grew up around Philadelphia And then spent my adult time In New York like night and day Like even though it's like that in Philly Like Philly's small Yeah New York's a whole Where there's $5 million in Philly

There's $500 million in New York You know Where there's This speed of something happening in Philly, there's that speed times 50 happening in New York. And like even that divide, like attitude-wise, can be a little wide. It's crazy to think about it. It's not that far. Hmm.

Are you, like, as far as sports goes, you're more of a Philly's fan or New York fan? Yeah, I'm all. I got the pee on my hat. I could never wear that N.Y on there. No, never. No. Like, and I identify. I have for a long time more because I spent my time in New York and that's where the center of

the world is but like you know I'm from I grew up in West Eppford which is 11 minutes from Philly you know in Jersey and that was my home city so like there's always that that there and we're definitely it's it's a passionate place especially with sports show me your wrist I'm from Pittsburgh you get it Pittsburgh's legit Pittsburgh's got, it's in a different way. He's a Floridian, his whole life, except for like the first five minutes of his life, but he identifies as a full-blown Pittsburgh.

Is your family from there? Yeah, I live there. It's always like 10. He just likes to talk a lot of shit. You can't believe in like 90% of what Danny tells you. That's giving a lot more credit to the situation. So that's the check. Okay, whatever. That's the job.

Five minutes, ten years. Same thing. Danny just doesn't understand because he's from Florida. Nobody has any respect for sports teams. What? He got Tom fucking Brady. Yeah, you have Tom Brady. It is not from here.

Nobody has any, like, loyalty to sports down here. Danny likes the Lakers one day. He likes the fucking bucks one day. He likes the bucks one day. He likes fucking the Patriots the next day. That's a violation. Hey, look at the stickers. Look at the stickers.

We'll do that. We'll do that in Pennsylvania. Yeah, when Tom Brady's not here in two years, is it going to look like that? I won't give a fuck about sports anymore. Okay. Yeah. See, that's the difference. I'm more of, like, a player fan.

I like the player. I'm a fan of the players. That's what people say. to have no loyalty to no heart towards their sports teams. I'll watch a LeBron game. Like any team he's on, I'll watch the game. But if, I mean, if it's fucking, if it's the 76ers and the Orlando Magic,

I don't give a shit. But if LeBron is playing the game, I like watching it. Same with Tom Brady. Well, not even, honestly, I never really gave a fuck about Tom Brady before he was on the Bucks. I never really cared about watching his games.

Yeah, you wouldn't understand. No, I wouldn't. Yeah, I think I'm going to second that right there. I don't get it. I don't. But it's fun to watch. It's just like... It's fun to watch everybody in Tampa just lose their minds now that Tom Brady's the quarter of right.

It's, I mean, look, it's a privilege. It's like you're watching the epitome of greatness every week. And now he's coming back. It's like the guy is... Guys out of control. Listen, it's like popular and like a place like Philly to be like, fuck Tom Brady. I was never with that. Like, to me, when we won our Super Bowl in 2018, that was like...

I can't even... Was that footlong foals? Yeah. I love how you know. BDV, baby, baby. But, like, that was so important. Like, the religion that is, especially football there. And to finally win a...

We had had a championship, not a Super Bowl. It was right before there were Super Bowls. Like, to do that, it's indescribable. But people, you know, there would... Even after we won, we're at the parade, people are making fun of Tom Brady, kissing his kids and shit like that. Oh, yeah.

And I'm just like, guys, and they were giving him shit. I'm like, Tom Brady, who is the best player to ever step on a football field, just played one of the greatest, as great as Nick Foles was in that game, and he was phenomenal, deserved to win MVP a whole bit. Tom Brady played one of the greatest games of football I've ever seen. Maybe his best game ever. The guy didn't miss. He threw no interceptions.

He had three touchdowns. He threw for 500 and some yards. I mean, he should have had like five or six touchdowns, but they ran a couple in at the goal line. But, like, I'm like, this, the best player to ever play just played against us in the Super Bowl. We somehow won and won our first Super Bowl against the best to ever do it at the top of this game.

I have nothing but respect for him. And thank you for letting me watch that. Because, like, we won, but I also got to watch, like, perfect football. And I'll never, in the second quarter of that game, I'll never forget this for the rest of my time. my life. Chris Collinsworth gets on there. There was some sort of like weird stutter go route that Gronk and Brady tried. It was like a timing pattern. And Brady threw it low. I think because he thought Gronk was going to come in. And it was clear to everyone on TV. Like he threw a dart in there, but it

came in low. And Collinsworth goes, you know, I'm not really sure about that one, Al, but you got to wonder, father time catches up with everyone. And Tom Brady doesn't make that throw. Next throw. 50 yards down field. Oh, there's Don Brady. Never misses again the rest of the... I'm like, that's the coldest in-game date I've ever seen in my life. We're talking about father time

when the guy's thrown for 550 fucking yards or whatever it was. And I'm like, this dude... And that was four years ago. Yeah. He was like 41, whatever it was. Yeah. And I'm just like, he walked off to...

I'm like, yo. Like, I give him like a salute. Like, we're selling my dad in me or like crying. But I'm like, salute to that guy. That's like... I'll never... It doesn't get any better. in this. Like we literally couldn't stop you.

Were you at the game? No. We were, I went home to watch it with my dad. Oh really? We got to take them home. That's awesome. We got to take them home together. That's awesome. And it was like. Together. We're doing it. It was like, it was like a religious experience. And then the parade was like. But that was insane. Oh, it's indescribable. No one will ever do a parade like that. Like Philly at their first Super Bowl. That will not. I saw things that I'll never see again.

I saw people peeing in places that I didn't think were possible. You know, they put all Cresco oil on all the poles. On all the poles. Didn't matter. Did it matter? No, they still got there. Didn't matter. What?

I saw, the best was when I saw Jesus walking around. A guy dressed as Jesus with a giant flagpole that had, that had an industrial clear bag on the top and a sign walking next to him that said Nick Foll's condom with an arrow up. That's hilarious. And, like, Nick Foles with his little daughter and his, like, very cute religious wife, like, driving by on the, on the, on the, on the, bus and like jeezers standing there some people are so amazing sports fans are like none other they're the best it's like none other

that's fucking hilarious you know what scary though we like sports and like the passion like the tribalism behind that now in the social media era at least my opinion is while that's continued to a great extent

we make sports like politics too right so we look at it People get like this, like emotional, and like cut throat over issues. Like you brought this up a while ago. We didn't go into it, but we probably should. Like the whole Ukraine thing. I looked at this maybe a day after it happened. And I'm just so cynical now that I'm like, give it a week.

Give it a week and we're going to have two camps. Oh, yeah. We're going to have the people. And like, it didn't take a gene. I think a lot of people called this. But like, we're going to have the people who have the profile picture from Adobe Photoshop with the Ukrainian flag and like the over graphic image like this, stand with Ukraine or whatever they were going to say. The pronouns underneath. All that.

Then we're going to have people who suddenly are like, you know, this Putin guy might not be too bad. And the people who get all the attention. So therefore, what seems to be the main narratives, even though a lot of people don't feel these two ways, are going to be. those two and you're now going to divide people along the lines are you anti-Uk or pro-Ututin right right right and it's like dude like a fucking simulation mm-hmm you know same thing as the 9-11 thing a lot of things can be true at the same time yeah no i mean like i told you i went down that whole ukraine rabbit hole with the oliver stone documentaries and that shit just like took me for a whirlwind when did he make that 2007

I want to say around 2017-2018 he has two separate ones he has one that was all about the Maidan thing and then he has the one or no I'm sorry he has the one about the Orange Revolution that was before that this is different this is the actually interviews he did with Putin

and then he has another one that that covered that goes into all the way up to Zelensky in 2019 and how like he campaigned to end the war in Dombos and he still never did it and the craziest part which I talked to the guy I had on here last, or a couple days ago about,

was that lady, Victoria Newland, the Neo-Con. Yeah, you were telling me about this. Whose husband's also a big fucking Neo-Connor helped to sell the Iraq War. What's her position? I'm not sure what her position is currently. Can we pull that up by you, Victoria Newland? Pull up that same clip of her talking about recorded phone call with Victoria Newland. And they're recording it, and she's talking about Biden signing off on the new president of the Ukraine.

And you were telling me this is the same lady who had like that. weird back and forth with Marco Rubio. Yes, that's the same lady. Senate. She's like, there are chemical labs, research labs in the Ukraine, yes. And we want to make sure that we want to do everything we can to make sure that the Russian troops do not get their hands on them. My only thing...

And he was like, what? My only thing about this is like, well, not my only thing. But one thing about this is, of course, it's horrifying to see what's going on there. You have a heart. Like, the people who are caught in the middle of this is not... Not careful. Yeah, it's disgusting what's going on. But, like, why do we not raise this point?

Like, why are we just raised... I know it's important because Ukraine's 45 million people. It's right next to Russia. It has resources. Putin's bad. But, like, what about all the brown kids who have this happen every fucking day in the Middle East? Well, because, like Tim Dillon said, we could imagine these people coming to dinner with us. They're white.

Oh, I didn't see that. Wow. The best... Have you seen the... Did you see the Trevor Noah video? He actually nailed this. with talking about like the implicit bias

in the media talking about this war he's like, oh, I wonder why they're so worried about it. Let's roll the tape. And like the people are like, you know, this is Europe. This is a, this isn't a third world country. Exactly. These aren't little brown babies running around. They look just like us.

Yeah. And you have to protect them. And like, you know, the one guy, the one guy had like an oh shit moment live, the one CBS reporter on TV. He's like, and I have to choose my words carefully here, but... Oh, yeah, exactly. European?

Yeah. He's basically saying... What the fuck is that supposed to mean, Steve? Like, why are we so worried about the Ukrainian people being murdered when we're not worried about the people in Yemen getting bombed and slaughtered? And you know what's the other thing is? Because Trevor Noah said this. He's like, literally Europe's whole history is built off a war.

And he's right. It hasn't even been that long since what I think... think maybe there's been another one since then. I'm not even thinking of it. But like, people even know what happened in Kosovo in 1999? Have you ever looked into that? I mean, I know a little bit about it, but not a lot. Yugoslavia, all that?

You'd have to enlighten me. I went down the rabbit hole. Like, this is recent, and there's a lot I don't know. So please look this up for yourself. But, like, you know, the whole, like, Yugoslavia breaking up after the Soviet Union fell from 91 to 99 in that power vacuum in those six different regions there. including three more that were outside of Yugoslavia that had like some of the same people in there.

This is where borders like don't divide by culture. Like there's the same types of people. Like there's Albanians who live not just in Albania. They live in Kosovo. They live in Macedonia. They live in Serbia. Like all these places. And like there was legit like genocide going on there.

And we don't talk about it because the government, NATO just came in and bombed the shit out Serbia to end it, which I guess there's controversy there, but I guess technically did. But, you know, they didn't let the media in to the countries while this was going on.

So we just, yeah, whatever. But there was like literal ethnic cleansing going on. No one cared about that one. Right. You know, but now there's a narrative to it. Yeah, Rwanda. Yep. Rwanda? Have you ever seen that movie? No. Don Chiedel.

No. Bro. that's this is 28 years ago the Hutus and the Tutsis I'm probably getting that wrong but okay they just ran around with machetes

What? And just fucking I forget who did it on who but What was that? Oh I didn't know that Did you just got back from Rwanda didn't you? Didn't you just go to Rwanda?

I didn't you Really? This kid goes to every fucking country around every country I've never even heard of. We've got to pop you in here. That's pretty cool. Okay, play that Victoria Newland clip real quick. Yeah, yeah, let's go back there.

This is the phone call, right? Full screen, yeah, this is the recorded phone call. So when, can you give the context on this real quick? So this is right, like, towards the end of the Maidan massacre. So, like, 2014. Okay. Crisis was getting more violent. There was a phone call that was intercepted.

It was a call between the Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, Victoria Newland. and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Jeffrey Piat. Questions of credibility are being raised after a private chat between two top U.S. diplomats was leaked online. I think Yads is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the guy, you know, what he needs is Cleach and Tony Book on the outside. I just think Cleach going in, he's going to be at that level working for Yads and Yatts and Yuc. It's just not going to work.

Yeah, no, I think that's right. Okay. Corporate, do you want us to try to set up a call with him? Corporate speak. And I said probably tomorrow for an attaboy and I get the deeds to stick. Oh, my God. So you had this remarkable phone call where you have these two senior officials of the U.S. government apparently talking about a coup or how they were planning to restructure the government.

Look at that evil bitch. It's not the EU. No, exactly. The whole U.S. government feels that way. There is division on this, but the neoconservative element wants very much to change the strategic dynamic in Eastern Europe. You know what? How fucking crazy is that? Now, take out the words Ukraine and, like, president or whatever there.

Uh-huh. And now imagine, like, two HR managers at Bank of America talking about a business that they're going to slowly unwind so that they don't have to sell the shareholders until it's already done. It's the same. It's the same speak. corporate speak. He's like, all right, well, we'll call you back with next steps. Biden's willing. I have a hard stop at 4.15, by the way. Like, shot the fuck. Like, dude, it's so insane. I just, like, this was 2014. Yeah. So this is, like, tech errors upon us.

I don't know why for the life of me. I understand, like, day to day, you're just doing your job and you're not thinking about everything. But, like, think about everything you do when you're in a position like that. You got to be on constant alert. Like, I want to be on constant alert, like, I wonder how this would sound if someone was recording this right now because they might be you know like you never know when this is going to come out and so they weren't thinking that back then so here's here maybe not apparently not but like but like here's a prime example the thing they're talking about right there they might actually have the right opinion on this but they're doing it in like a seemingly corrupt underwater way right right like yannukovych was not a good guy he lied to his people he was a piece

shit who was friends of Putin and everything and the people, the Ukrainian people wanted him out. That's a fact. They wanted him gone and he ended up being gone. But here you have senior U.S. officials talking about like nonchalant like, yeah, we're going to get our guy in there

or whatever. Where now it's dirty. Now it's like well, they put someone in here? Right. Now it seems like obviously Zelensky's, this is way, this is seven years later and then Zelensky was like a random comedian who then somehow got to office.

And I think that guy's just caught in the middle of a shitstorm because you've got to remember the Ukrainian government already had like its own bullshit regular corruption like all these governments have. And he's walking into that. So who the fuck knows like what these guys are doing around them right now? Right, right. You know, but we can all agree, you know, what's happening to his people is awful. It's just like, don't make a Twitter bio about it.

Right. When you don't know anything. But could you imagine fucking Russia installing. doing this same thing in Mexico could you imagine fucking some top level Russians in the KGB inserting a regime in Mexico like what the fuck would we do to Mexico

are you kidding me you should ask no that would never fucking happen you should run this by David this is another one you should definitely run by to see how he answers it because like the concept is well we're good and they're bad right exactly what is good and what is bad

now I will say this as critical as I may be if you listen in his podcast of like certain agencies and things we do and assholes like that yeah on the good and bad spectrum do i do i think we're a lot better intentioned at least like overall as a group of people to say nothing of individuals then say russia yes but who are we to say that it's not our country you know what i mean so like if you're russia if you're putin the one thing is that you could could feel a little threatened that like, oh, there's NATO troops on everyone.

Possibly, yeah, maybe. Maybe all these anti-ballistic missiles they're putting up there that could be changed into offensive missiles in less than an hour. I don't know anything about that. But yeah, if that's a thing, then yeah, like another example. Like a lot of things can be true at the same time. And that's why what he's doing is an all-time level of stupidity because he actually, as much as he's already disliked and, and, ripped on the world stage before any of this happened. He had some, like, some, potentially moral leverage against Western, not Ukraine, per se, but

like Western powers who were, like, tacitly allowing certain things to happen on all the borders around him where then Ukraine comes into play, because it's the biggest one. Right. He had some leverage there, and then he went in, attack the country and shelled apartments and shit. And it's just like, he gave it all away. And now one thing I understand with people who have significant bias is, yeah, it's very hard to see past anything when you do see something very evil happening in front of you. My issue is that people just take such a, it has to be everything to them.

Ukraine has to be all good. Yeah. There's no problem. Can you find that John Stewart interview with Oliver Stone? I think it's John. No, not John Stewart. Who's the other guy? Stephen Colbert interviews Oliver Stone about his interviews of Putin.

and he's basically sitting there. They even edited out a shitload of it to make it. Because actually Oliver made, if you watch the long version, you make some really good points, they cut it out of the main. Where did you get the long version? The long version is, I think it's also on YouTube, but you got to dig way deeper and it's like 15 minutes long. But the TV version...

I can't believe they let that out. Dude, and he's basically sitting there. He's like, so tell me about this interview you did with Pout and blah, blah, and he starts talking about his experience sitting there. He made three trips to Russia and spent over like 20 hours, not 20, probably like 10 hours talking to him. I mean it was edited into six hours or four hours. And then he says that the stuff.

And then Stephen Colbert's like, so out of all this, do you have anything negative to say about Putin? Like, can you give me one negative thing? You could tell he's like super upset that he has nothing negative to say about him. He's just giving his unbiased point of view on it. He's like, you didn't challenge him on this. He's like, look, to be able to get an interview with this fucking guy in the first place, you have to have some mutual respect. Do you not understand that?

Well, you ask. I can't just walk in there and be a fucking dickhead to the guy. You have to have respect for the guy. You have to understand his position to be able to get this interview in the first place. And here, well, here's a good example. Here's where I think they're probably both wrong on each side, Colbert and Stone, because Colbert is just fishing for something politically useful for him, for his motives, which is bullshit. He should be looking at this.

I mean, and it might even be a fair question with the wrong intentions. But yeah, one thing Oliver Stone won't have an explanation for here is that you, the only journalists who get access to the Kremlin, like there's an official meeting that happens, I don't know if it's once a month or something, where the tacit expectation is it's Russia trying to show, oh, we're open with all the media around the world. But you don't get let back in there again if you say something that they don't like. so everyone's self-censors. And so he doesn't get this interview. This is a fact. He doesn't get this interview unless he has, A, cleared a lot of things they're going to talk about directly with the Kremlin before, which allows Putin to prepare for it. And B, says anything that sets Putin off to the point that he can't virtue signal cover for it.

So it's not like, I always say, in my opinion, Oliver St. Stone is, I don't like this phrase at all. He's like a necessary evil because he's a fuck everybody guy. He's the guy who makes you have to look introspective, regardless of party, into the United States and bad things we do. And I think that's necessary. But, yeah, in the same way that people on another side of an issue could get biased by their own experiences, yeah, I think he does too.

So Oliver Stone, who's a guy who's very disillusioned with a lot of things in America, who was a Vietnam War veteran, he saw the worst of what we do. Right. You know, yeah, he's biased. But it's like I watch Oliver Stone, I say, okay, we know some shit here. Like, all right, I don't think Barack Obama belongs in front of the Hague War Tribunal. All right, let's relax. But what are some things he's going to say about all the politicians we've had that have an element of true? truth to him. And let me try to figure that out. I mean, I know, but like, it's not all good and it's

not all bad. I don't know why a lot of, I feel like a lot more people do think like this. They just don't say it out loud. I hope they do. But like, that's, it's a prime example. So, like, I do want to sit down and watch the full four hour thing. Yeah. And see what he got. Because you can't tell me he didn't get some kernels of something that are at least useful to understand. Oh, it gives you an extremely, it's a fascinating insight on Putin and not, I mean, even if it's all just an act he's putting on he's putting on a damn good fucking act well he's good at that he must he's a propaganda genius if you want to say if you want to say everything that he said in those interviews is completely an act and a false then he's fucking a damn good salesman and a damn good actor

probably not all four hours that's pretty hard to do but a lot of it i mean they know what they're doing man they these people he says uh they don't care he he he he all overshone refers to because it's during the Trump-Hillary election. He's interviewing him. And he's like, and Hillary's campaigning, and she calls Putin Hitler. And he asked Putin, he's like, did you see Hillary just called you Hitler yesterday?

He's like, he giggles. He's like, ah, she's a very dynamic woman. It can still be funny. It's hilarious. I mean, sometimes I'm sure even guys like him got to laugh at some shit that happens in a democracy. And they sat down, they sat down together and they walked, They watched Dr. Strangelove.

Really? He showed Putin Dr. Strange Love for the first time. And what do you say? I forget. I don't know. He gave him the DVD. It was interesting. I forget exactly what you were saying.

It was great. But he was like, I've never seen this. This is very fascinating. And then Oliver Stone gives him the DVD and gives him the case and the DVD's not in there. He's like, oh, it's typical American gift. Have you ever heard Putin speak English? Yeah. He says if he has a few words he speaks in English.

It's like you expect this guy to have like the gruff, like, like smokers Russian like I've murdered a thousand people voice but he actually talks like and we will invite you to the Russia and it's like he sounds like the Mader D yeah he does the fuck

he does he's uh you know and and Oliver Stoney I mean to his credit he does push him pretty hard in the in the interviews too like he straight up says he goes why why did you interfere in our elections why did you do it you know you know how you know how much power you have in our country

if you wanted to go endorse Trump he would lose. If you want to go endorse Hillary, she would lose. Like, that's how much power you have. So why did you fuck with our election? No, why do you think Putin would allow that question? Because, I mean, obviously, his answer was no, I didn't do anything. We never interfere with any foreign elections.

We know that. And so he can just deny. And people can be like, oh, that's a lie, but whatever. But when he sits there and answers it and answers it with a face that's clearly like, I'm just given the response I'm supposed to give. He gets to show power there. People around the world see that and they go, that son of a bitch did it. And he doesn't know of

Fuck. And he doesn't know of fuck. I'm going to believe him to no matter how much it belied. Yeah. Yeah. Like certain people will. But not, but he doesn't care about the people who will. Right.

Because he's already got them. Right. Right. He cares about the people who don't, which is probably most of the people who are watching it, who know anything about the situation. Because it shows that he not only did it, he's talking to an American on his own turf and saying, fuck you. Yeah.

No, I didn't do that. I wonder if that's ever happened the other way around. I wonder if there's ever been any, like, really. big like note like notable russian journalist or filmmaker who's done that with an american president and here's an example for sure i i i don't know an instance but i if you made me bet my not very big bank accounts it's got like nothing in it but if i had to bet all of it i'd bet yeah that's happened really yeah i don't know if the russian journalist specifically but yeah

just no doubt i mean look at well i think he i think putin's whether you want to say he's good or bad. I think he's very effective at his job. I think he does, I mean, the guy's been doing it for how long? Well, that's because he changed. Whether how, no matter how corrupt it is. He changed, yeah, he changed the goalpost over and over again. He's not, the people, the really interesting thing about Russia that David can talk a lot about because he's lived among the people for so long is their psychology. They are a different breed and they, and they're molded by their environment. They're molded by over a hundred years of, in some cases, the worst corruption imaginable. I mean, we don't seem to say this enough, but, like, Joseph Stalin was, I mean, he was

as bad as Hitler in many ways, maybe not quite all, but like the closest thing. For sure. And, like, we forget that. You know, these people live through awful shit. And they have statues of them everywhere. Yeah. Well, I think they've gotten rid of a lot of them, but they probably stills. Have they?

I think so, but they probably still have some. But like, these people, they will believe opposite thing. They will say one thing and then say a thing that directly contradicts that and not think anything of it. And that, like, they will say, David told me this. He's like, they'll say the government is all corrupt. And the next thing out of their mouth will be, you'll ask them about a current issue. And they'll be like, I don't know, but the government definitely knows. So we'll let them deal with it.

Like, they are very, and it's not their fault. They're just, you know, they're the hardened people who pour out the vodka and sit in the ice bath in the middle of the tundra and say, I wash my bulls with this. And they don't care. Like, they're just, they are, they believe that it's going to be bad no matter what. Say you might as well just suck it up and keep going. And like most of it, you got to remember when the communism fell in 90 or 91, whatever it was, you know, This private the rapid privatization that the government basically just allowed was corrupt people, right people, right time gave them all the control, the oligarchs. And so you want to talk about wealth gap.

All the wealth went to this small group of individuals. And then the way that those individuals bought protection if they weren't already a part of it themselves was organized crime, which then went through the roof. And like you talked to the one guy I knew who I'd like to have on the podcast again, Jules Bonavolanta, He was one of the main FBI organized crime guys during the height of the Italian-American mafia, like 70s, 80s, 90s. He invented Donnie Brasco. That was his idea. And he told me this over a decade ago when I was young and talked with him. He's like, you know, the Italians at this point would kind of know what we're getting, gambling, prostitution, occasionally a little whack a guy.

It's like controllable. He's like the Russians. Russians are some wild shit, man. They don't give it that like you don't you don't find the body you find the finger and then you find a piece of a toe and like a weird ice box and some acid like it's some next level shit and these people you know those that's the worst example but like Russian mafia over here. And you know they're all tied back to there but like they're molded by an environment that has no hope. They're molded by an environment where this is the only way we make money. Right. We kill.

You don't like it. Fuck off. Italians, at least they got to be home in time for dinner. Yeah. Yeah, there's a big, there's, and those guys, don't be wrong, they're psychos and they don't feel much, but they feel maybe a little. You know, the Russians are like, it's like Eastern promises. They're fucking chopping the guy out with a cigarette in their mouth. There's just no hope.

You know. Wow. It's, but that's, that's it. Like, they have been fucked up. because the way Soviets came to power they were fucked up the Tsars had all the power No one had any money

It's a weird environment It's still rural as fuck It's cold People are miserable You know And then the Soviet Union happened We know how that turned out Yeah

And then this happened Oh democracy No You know Can you Google The The 2020 Russian Constitution changes

Just toss this one right in there during COVID. It's right under, right under the books. So. In Russia? Yeah. Yeah.

This is how Putin, this is why he consolidated power before doing anything like this. And I mean, genius political move. But, you know, he had to leave office in 2008 because presidents can only serve two terms in the new constitution. So he puts Medvedev in there. He becomes prime minister, Medvedev president. And then amendments to the constitution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you go down proposed amendments, yeah, let's start there.

See that? Down, down, down, down. Proposed amendments. No, it's like the very bottom. The big text, the bottom of the screen. Yeah, yeah. So go to the list, if you don't mind. Down?

Very bottom. Right there. Yep. All right. So where is? The Russian Constitution will supersede international war. Law. International law?

Yep. Go down to proposed adoption without a referendum. Where was the thing? Basically, I don't know if this is the right page. But... Keep finding it. Keep looking. Find something juicy. Putin removed term limits. It's gone. In 2020?

Yeah. So now he can be president forever. Because he was coming up on, I guess, like, 12 years or something in 2024. I think there was going to be something. Or maybe it was 2020. And he was removing it ahead of the election. So he allowed it to happen. He also wrote in that in order to become president in Russia, you had to have only lived here for the last 25 years.

And you cannot have ever held any foreign resident status. So you can't have a passport anywhere else or have a home anywhere else, which rules out every single oligarch. So anyone with even a modicum of power in the country cannot seize power. So now people are talking about, well, who could take over? the only way that someone would take over would be a straight up coup where they rip up the Constitution, which is going to cause an uprising in the country, which would be disastrous. But, you know, whatever. And also, even if the oligarchs replaced them, half these, all these guys are dirty in some way.

Yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing. Who replaces them? Right. And would it be better? It would probably be better. Really? Because, like, he's bad.

I mean, he's just a, he's a bad dude. but minimally like even notice it's better they're still going to have the same complaints oh Ukraine they have things on the border maybe we go in maybe they don't do it as brazen and as dumb and this usually Putin hasn't been

dumb but this was dumb like how he did this one but like they probably still do it I mean it's hypothetical I don't know but you know they still it's their country it's their land like they're passionate about it and if they're not necessarily a good person and they're not beholden to the rights of the individual people in

their country because they can do whatever the fuck they want, they're going to do that. You know, so like that's why the propaganda exists and that's why even an interview like Oliver Stones, he's controlling tacitly what he's being asked. He knows. So he knows he can use that answer. You can't make that happen without being, without having all those questions screened beforehand. So it's like a lot of journalists, I'm sure, I haven't seen an instance. this but maybe someone talked about at some point i'm sure a lot of journalists have had an opportunity to go there but haven't taken it because they know like they're told well here's how it works they go fuck that right you know we're in a country where like jimicosta and peter ducy can exist

right you know i'm just giving the example of the two sides with an opposite party of choice in office and they can just like make a scene that doesn't happen in russia you don't hear from that person no no they're gone like on a on a polyt We'll never get this name right. Anapolitaskaya. She was a journalist there. Murdered in her home. Really?

Yeah. She wrote against Putin. Boris Nemsov, the opposition leader, murdered literally right next to the Kremlin. Have it on video. You know, Boris Nemtsov's successor, Alexei Navalny, in prison. You know, it's not...

Have you ever seen the documentary, Icarus? Of course. Dude, how fucking wild is that shit? One of the best document... I mean, top five documentary ever made, in my opinion. Like, on the edge of your fucking seat, that that fucking thing, that documentary, like, is so fucking gripping from start to finish.

Yeah. And how that guy is now, the chemist guy is now fucking living here under, like, a false identity to be, to not get killed by Russians. The fun, that guy was, like, straight out of a Borat movie. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, the guy was like so... Hello, Brian.

I am in danger. He was like... He was so fucking funny. Imagine if you're Brian Fogel though walking into that. You're like doing a documentary to like fake drug yourself. And then suddenly this guy's in the middle of like an international moment. This whole life's in danger. And you're like, I have this all this.

And he's like talking about going through security. He's like, oh yeah, we got no problem. No problem. Yeah. I mean, guys, they're hard into it. Dude. You know? You survived?

Oh, yeah. No problem. No problem. We got lucky today. We got through. Like, but that's, that's, these are, that's how crazy they are. There, he is. These are athletes.

It's the Olympics. It's a symbol. Mm-hmm. We must drug them. We must win. Yeah. What? Like, that's just how, I don't know.

It's hard for me to say how I'd be. I didn't grow up in the Soviet Union. Right. You know what I mean? Like, people are only as good as the environment. You don't get to choose where you're born, including Putin. Mm-hmm. You know, the guy was, he was in the KGB.

Imagine the shit he did and didn't feel anything about it because they're taught. Right. This is what you do. You know, think about, like, the people that he probably strangled with his right hand. I'd probably be crazy, too. Yeah. You know, but if you don't do it, you're dead. Yeah.

It's hard to put yourself at somebody else's shoes like that. It's nuts. It's also hard to imagine being the president of a country for that fucking long. And think about it, we have a new person every four years.

Every four years, someone's brand new. Right back to the Bustamante argument, by the way. What was the Bustamante argument? In like a similar vein where he's talking about like attacking within versus losing the focus of the outside.

We have a popularity contest every four years. Right. Right. Which is like, good, because it's democracy. But what does it lead to? It leads to everyone thinking two minutes out in the news cycle to try to do what's going to not lose them votes. Right.

And then we don't have term limits in, like, the most important part of the government. Right. Like, what's our excuse there? Why do these people look like they were my grandparents' grandparents? Yeah. People like that Victorian Newland lady. And Joe Biden. And she's not even a worst case scenario.

He's not even the worst. But yes, exactly. Even Joe Biden in that Ukraine documentary, they go into the whole thing with his son being on the board of that company. That's the energy company in Ukraine. Which gets covered up. But like, and here's the other thing.

He's one dude. Right. And it was one board. I mean, it's, it's important. But like, there's a lot more other shit that also like even Ukraine,

they're just getting used. Right. They don't even. There's probably guys over there. Zelensky doesn't know about. Right. For sure. You know?

And like, that's not his fault. That's just the world But like Biden man I used to caddy for his Someone close to him I'll say that Oh yeah you gotta tell those stories of caddying back in the day

Yeah I didn't Dude used to be a professional caddy for one of like the fucking most Like most elite golf courses There were a couple One of them though was Wilmington Country Club Which is where Biden's been He lives like two minutes from there Been there forever

But I used to catty a lot for someone close to him Never caddy for Joe But You know I stood there on the practice tea when he walked on like right here you know and all the Secret Service golf carts behind him when he was vice president and the last time

I was within striking distance of him like literally like walking right here by me was the summer 2014 and it's crazy because he walks on the practice tea and he's like a normal dude but he's like

I remember thinking to myself this dude 71 years old because he was like yoked. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. He was moving around. Jim, what's up? What's up? Motherfuck. I don't know if he said motherfucker. But he's like busting balls to people on the tea. Like, like pointing around, doing the whole

like not even politician. He's just like a like a bro almost. He gets up there. He's striping the driver off to the practice tea like 240, 250. I'm like, this fucking guy's a machine. He might run. He might not be too old to run for president.

He might do it. And then his son died the next year. Didn't end up running for president. But I remember seeing him, this is five years later, he announces his candidacy, four and a half years later. And I'm like, did that dude have like 10 brain aneurysms since I was all? Like, he went from this like moving around guy, you know, to like. His fell off instantly, huh?

I never seen anything like, I mean, I guess it happens. It's what happens to be old. That quick, though? That quick. I wonder what the fuck happened. Had it be something else. He had something. I'm not a doctor.

I don't know. But. Yeah. I don't know if he hit his head Something he's just like I did talk with someone this summer Whose expertise is with dementia Patients who's not a fan of Biden

At all and she laid out for me For like an hour Like a while Why he doesn't have dementia She's like Because it's her expertise And she's like pissed off When everyone's playing a doctor

But she's like But he's old as fuck Yeah right right Like this is He's only a couple years older than Putin I think he's several years old. Oh, was he?

Yeah, I think Putin was 70. Yeah, I think Biden's like 78, 79. Oh, okay. But still, like, you know, Putin's in a lot better shape, it seems, I guess. But, like, you know, she's like, imagine she, this woman was asking me because she knew my grandfather. And she's like, love your grandpa, successful guy, smart guy. Imagine him being president today. And I'm like, oh, no.

And he would be like, oh, no. Yeah. And she's like, well, that's, this is what it looks like. So it's not dementia, but like I mean, who do I got to fuck to elect a 50 year old? Right, right. Like, what are we doing? Right.

Our government is run by, it was just Trump before him, who was kind of a machine as a person, but like he's old as fuck, he's from a different generation. You get the same generation with Biden. And then along the way, you have Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, his face has fallen off. you know

the the the the the the the the sproutest guy is like kevin o'leary or whatever his name is who's on term number five whatever it is and he i think he's like 60 what does that guy know about my reality right like nothing's it's insane man it's a crazy fucking world we live in some nuts shit man bro that was uh three and a half hours no it wasn't three and a half fucking hours my bladder has never gone this long i still don't have to pee this is Craig, every episode, you don't see it, but every episode I have to pee at least once. Tell all the watchers and listeners where they can find your amazing YouTube channel and all your content. Thank you for the compliment.

And if you're still here, at this point we've been talking a while. But you find me at Trendafire, T-R-E-N-D-I-F-I-E-R on TikTok for sure, but YouTube is where we put the podcast. Put it on Apple and Spotify. You type in my name, Julian Dori. It should come up as well. and yeah we're i said we're on tic-tog so that's the other one where there's some content but yeah we'd love to see you guys join join the show thank you for having me