Danny Jones Podcast - #156 - The Most Interesting Con Man in the World | Matthew Cox

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Matthew Cox is a true crime writer who was sentenced to 26 years in Federal prison for identity theft and mortgage fraud. One of his most popular stories "Once a Gunrunner" was even turned into the feature film "War Dogs" starring Jonah Hill.  Mr Cox was also featured on his own episode of "American Greed" on CNBC.   Matt's links:  YouTube Channel: http://bit.ly/2EoqWnMWebsite: https://insidetruecrime.com JOIN OUR KULT: https://bit.ly/koncretepatreon  Danny  https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny  https://twitter.com/jonesdanny Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matthew B. Cox, welcome back. It's been a long time. It's, I feel like it's been years, but it's only been 15 episodes since we've been on here. Thank you. Thank you. How you been, man? It's been a long time.

How did you survive? How did you do? How did you weather the storm, the hurricane, and... I mean, it was, you know, like we were just saying, it just, you know, it turned. Yeah. We got lucky. I didn't think, even when it said it was headed towards Tampa, it still said kind of north of Tampa. And I'm, I mean, it said, it was going to hit south of Tampa.

Yeah, yeah. And I thought, well, I'm like, third. 30 minutes, like 20, probably 30 minute drive, maybe 40 minute drive from Tampa. So I'm like, I mean, I'm just, and I'm far enough. Yeah, we're 30 minutes, I'm 30 miles in from like the coast. Like it's going to dissipate pretty rapidly. Yeah, you were in a good spot. Yeah, I wasn't that.

I wasn't concerned. But then, of course, then I saw what happened to Fort Myers. Fort Myers got, wow. Total. It looks like a nuclear bomb went on. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I didn't expect that. Everything's fucking underwater.

Yeah. I really thought, I just same, I thought, I thought out there ever reacting. Yeah. You know, like they always were overreacted. And then you see it and you're like, oh, fuck. Oh, man. Yeah, like New Orleans. I got lucky.

Yeah. Yeah, it looked fucked up down there, man. We got so lucky didn't hit us. We would have been fucking destroyed, especially Tampa and St. Pete. Yeah. And we also got saved by the storm surge because of the counterclockwise, the way the storm rotates counterclockwise, it sucked all the water out of the bay and out of the gulf.

Did you see the pictures of... See the Hillsborough River? It's like empty. No. No. Dry. Yeah. Oh, I remember I was watching TikToks and YouTube and stuff.

There's people walking out like off a bay shore. Where the ocean is. Yeah, they're walking way out. I mean, hundreds of yards out. They're just walking around. It's crazy. Yeah, lucky as shit over here.

They say we're guarded by the sacred Indian land over here. It's why we get scared. bared all the time. Yeah, apparently there's he's not from here. Oh, you are from here. He's been scamming here since the 80s. Apparently, there's some sacred, like, Indian burial grounds all around Pinellas County. And a lot of people around here like to say that that's the reason the storms always miss us. I mean, I don't, I don't know.

There's no other logical explanation. Did you guys lose power at all? No. That's always the worst part about these hurricanes, especially, not obviously in Myers. There's a lot worse things that can happen, but it seems like always in Tampa, like, especially Irma back in 2017, there was like a lot of trees down, a lot of shit got ripped up, but nobody had power in my neighborhood for like seven or eight days. I'll take your word for it. And it was, I was terrible. Where were you at? Oh, you're probably, Coleman. Oh, you were in Coleman. That's probably one of the safest places to be during everything. Yeah. You never lose power there, do you?

Oh, I don't know. No, they didn't lose power. But what was funny is, you know, I would get these, these emails on the Coralink system. Are you going to be okay? I'm like, my God. Nuclear bomb. You're in a fortress. Exactly.

I'm in a bunker. Trust me, I'm going to be fine. They served, I remember, you know, like they don't let you leave. They just lock the doors.

What if it floods in there, though? It, I mean, in other prisons it's flooded, but it didn't flood there. But, yeah,

I've heard of places where it's floods. They'll move whole prisons. Like, if they think it's going to hit, they'll put everybody on planes. That's what I was thinking, like, well,

they take you out of there? They will. They'll put you on con air and get you out. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And they'll put you, send you to another, they'll fly you out of the state, send you to another prison, stack you up eight people in a cell. Yeah.

You know, but they don't want to leave you there to, listen, the one thing, they're going to pretty much keep you alive. You know, unless you're sick. And then you're worth money to them. Each prisoner is worth a lot of money. Yeah. So what? $32,000 a year. Crazy.

For people that, uh, there's probably. going to be some new listeners here today. We've had, since you've been on, we've acquired quite a few new subscribers and listeners to the podcast. We're now north of half a million subscribers. Woo-boo. So tell people out there who don't know

who you are. Give them your elevator pitch, your true crime elevator pitch. How, how an elevator pitch? Is that three minutes or five minutes? Give us like a minute, a minute. A minute? Yeah, give me a 60 second pitch of your background and who Matt Cox is. My name is Matt Cox.

And I owned a mortgage company at one point. And then I started pulling real estate scams and I started creating synthetic individuals, synthetic people and borrowing millions of dollars in those people's names. Eventually I was caught. I was on the run for three years. Eventually, I'm sorry, eventually I got caught by the Secret Service and they gave me 26 years in prison. I did 13 years and got out. Thanks to Frank Omadam. And met, yeah, and met, um, met Danny. Tell the story about how. we met for people that are listening. How you reached out and then the, so when I was locked up, I had written a bunch of true crime stories because I've been locked up for a while and I wrote my own memoir.

And so after I wrote my book, other guys kind of like started saying, hey, you ought to write this guy's story. You ought to write that guy's story. So I ended up writing, you know, Ephraim Devereoli story, the guy from Wardogues. And then I got a bunch of guys in Rolling Stone magazine and I optioned the film rights to some of my stories

and I wrote a bunch of other stories and started talking to reporters. So when I got out, I wanted to start a true crime podcast, which I never did. I kind of did. You kind of got one now. Kind of.

So I wanted to do true crime. Like I thought, oh, I'll do that. And so when I was in prison, I was in the halfway house, a buddy of mine said, you need to reach out to this guy, Danny. He runs this YouTube channel called Concrete.

and he's in the area. And I was like, well, why he's always got this guy on there who talks about real estate. And I went, man, nobody wants to talk to me about real estate. And he said, yeah, yeah, well, you should talk to him because you could tell your story or he could help you with the true crime thing. And I thought, okay, well, I'll try and call him, see if I'll answer some questions. Because, you know, nobody else had any answers. And you were in the halfway house. Oh, I was in the halfway house.

Yeah. So I talked to Danny a few times. I sent him an email. He called me, or we arranged the time to talk. We talked for like 30 minutes or an hour. then another time I talked to him again, then another time I talked to him again, and he kept saying,

you need to come on the podcast. And I was like, okay, well, I'm in the halfway house, but I can't. So what ended up happening was when I finally got out of the halfway house, I've been out of the halfway house about a month or two, and Danny called me up one day and said, listen, I had a guest fall through. I had another guy fall through a couple weeks ago.

I haven't put anything out in a week or two. I need a guest. You said you would come on the pod. And I was like, I don't know, man. He goes, you said, I answered your questions. Oh, you've betted him. You said, you come on a bad guy, don't you? And I was like, I did fucking say that.

So then I came on the podcast and I walked in and said, you know, let me tell my story. You said, yeah, how long is it take? And I said, man, I got a 15 minute version. I got a 45 minute version. I got a two hour version. What do you want? And he goes, two hours. Hell yeah.

I talked for two hours. And it ended up getting like in the first couple months, I think it got like, a million and then since it's got 700,000 or so, it's like a 1.7 million or something like that was the rise to fame. The full episodes at like 2 million, 1.8 million. And then we, I posted another one that's got like one and a half million. I put a couple clips of it that have millions of views and that was history. And then I came back a few times and I've got other ones that came back where they're

half a million a million. Like I don't think anything ever got as much as the very first one. But, you know, the algorithm's tired of me now and I'm nobody. And now I'm just, they're like, yeah, we're done with you. And so this, you know, now I come on here. And he said, Danny just said he's like, look, let's, we're going to talk a little bit about you first just to let people know who you are. He goes, because, you know, a lot of your podcasts flip, a flop.

He just said that. I walked in that. Like, I just drove across the bridge. I walk in. He goes, bro, your shit flops. You just invited me to come. Oh, my God. He's mean, spirited.

You know, that's not what I've met, Matt. That's tough. Guys tough. I got my girlfriend's giving me shit about coming here. Is she really? She's no, oh, by the way, she's no longer your girlfriend. Congratulations. My fiance.

Your fiancé. Congratulations. Matt Cox. Yeah. Boy, let me tell you how, what a work that was, huh? I put in my work, bro. Hey, we've actually kind of seen that whole saga from the beginning. From the on to the off to the gone and back.

And this is the kind of thing I say. And then I get, then, and he'll put this out in a week and she'll come home and I'll be like, hey, what's going on? She'll go, nothing. She saw the podcast. Will she watch these? Oh, yeah. Really? I'm, listen.

She goes through all my. my comments. Like I really genuinely always felt like she was paying attention. Yeah. She didn't care. She didn't this. And now I realize she actually does go through all my stuff constant. That's how women are, man. And I'm like, you know, she'll go, did you read this comment? I'm like, what, what, what come? You know, this guy said this and this. And I'm like, when did you start reading my comment? She's, I've always read them. I just never wanted you to know that I was reading them. So yeah. That's interesting. That seems like all. That's like the beginning. beginning stage of every relationship where the one the lady or woman is always going through every little detail of the man's personal life to make sure everything's not they're not being sneaky

i am though that he's not some con man i know i was gonna say i am like she's like you know yeah yeah but you're not running around no no i'm too old for that that's how they really care about yeah um yeah but yeah we got we got engaged like a couple a couple of a couple weeks ago congratulations matt cox I figure that gives me six months, maybe a year. Bies you another six. Are you going to be, are we going to be invited to the wedding? Yeah, of course.

I mean, I'm, I'm assuming there's going to be a wedding. I don't know, I got to talk to her. What kind of wedding could Matt Cox have? It would have to be small. Like,

it's got to be big. You got to have some good ideas. We got to rent somewhere sick. Oh, you know what was funny? You know, Dan, oh,

Dan Y is what, you don't know, they call him Art App, Dan. He was in prison in Ardap. And he was saying, he's like, bro, you got to have a YouTube wedding.

And I go, what is that? Yeah, you should. Yeah, like we got to bring cameras. We got to this. I was like, oh, I don't know, man. Oh, yeah. Like the Hulkster's wedding. What was his ring on?

Like Red Flair. Then when they filmed it. Or no, maybe that was Bubba when Hulk was the best man at Bubba's wedding. At Bubba the love sponge. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that did not work out too well. No, Hulk was Bubba's best man. Oh, Hulk was Bubba's best man.

Yes, you're right. You're right. Wow. And this is the one where he You know what else is crazy? That didn't unfold too well. You know what the craziest thing about the Bubba Hulk relationship was? He trusted him so much

when Hulk went in to get his knee surgeries and his hip surgery he made him unconscious. He made Bubba go in the room, the operating room, to watch the doctors. They were best buds. Like because he's such a high profile person. Because of that, I guess.

And Bubba make sure that's a security. He had to make sure the surgeon was doing it right. No, no, the real reason that he had Bubba in there was to make sure that they weren't, like, taking photos of him naked, taking photos of his fucking dick or his balls, whatever. Yeah, like, uh, did you, uh, did you, uh, see that, was it, Joan Rivers or something?

Like, they, she was out and they're, like, taking pictures selfies with her and stuff, and then she died on the table. Oh. No. Yeah. So, they got all these selfies and then she dies. They're like, oh, fuck. Oh, hell no.

Inappropriate. So, fuck. I had no. Are those photos on the internet? I'm sure. I'm popping me. I'm sure. Austin.

They're definitely on Reddit. No. Because I remember it was a big deal. They were like, what do you, what, like maybe if you were more concerned about your patient and less concerned about getting selfies.

Yeah, that's what they're saying. But who know, she was old. Joan Rivers. Instead of trying to get pictures of fucking Joan Rivers tits. Why don't you try to save her life?

So anyway, Matt Cox says wedding. That sounds fun. Where are we going to have it? Right. Like, so. We got to call the doctor.

The doctor will fund it. Oh, the doctor. The doctor will follow that. Oh, see, listen, he loves that. He loves being out there. Yeah. The doctor.

He'll set us up somewhere nice. Yeah, that's, that might be true. It might be true. The doctor will be the best man. Shout up to the doctor. I think the doctor will be the best man. Listen, I know when he's, when he's busy and when he's not, like he'll have a four or five days where he's busy. I don't hear from him at all.

And then he'll have like a slow day or something. And I mean, I get TikToks all day. He sends him to you? Ram, blah, rap, rah. I was like, man. Yeah, he's, yeah. Where does he live again? I was just, does it heal it down in Fort Myers?

No, no, he did live in Fort. Oh, that's right. He did live. Doctor, bro. He was a little bit further. He was like, Venice? No, Venice is North. Naples.

What are the little islands down there? Like Sanibel. Sanibel got total. Yeah, yeah, like Sanibel Island is where I think he lived. Sanibel got like the worst. Santa Bell was right in the middle of that. It was not funny, but yeah, they got smoked. He was there.

Then he moved. I forget where he moved. But now he, I think he lives in Texas. He's moved a couple of times. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting.

Well, kind of, he must not have like a dedicated practice, like hospital that he works at. What kind of, I wonder? Huh. I don't know. I don't know.

He's a very mysterious. He is a very mysterious. He's a very, I don't even know. I don't even know. To be honest, like I know his name. I'm not even sure.

I'm not even sure it's his real name. I don't even know if I know it was a real name. Oh. Oh. So do you know anyone who got fucked up by that hurricane? Um, Jess has a friend who just bought a house. And she was sending pictures like, I mean, it's underwater. The roof got ripped off.

The, it's got, you know, you can see all the dry walls. You know, roof gets ripped off. Then it rains inside. The ceiling and the drywall's all hanging down. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. Dude, our beach, the beach right across, you know, the beach, you can hit a golf ball and hit the beach from here. So, like, right over the bridge here was shut down for like three days straight.

And they put the cops, like, sit there. There's like six cop cars on each. side of the bridge to make sure no cars go over and we were going over because his grandma has the residence pass to go over to the beach she lives over there on the beach so we we were going over there every single day just checking on it and it never really got that crazy like that photo you sent me of my kids at on the beach yeah we went over there and we were hanging out on the beach for a couple hours like like running around I'm like are you going to be okay you know yeah we're need anything and he's like yeah we're writing out they're on you're on the beach with the kids I'm like well

he's not worried at all no it's nothing man we got lucky man we got lucky man Man, it curved. Even with Irma, we did the same thing with Irma. We were, like, right on the beach, right, like, the fucking eight hours before Irma made landfall. And Irma was projected to hit us up until maybe, like, four hours before. And it took a curve forward right. We'll get lucky over here. For some reason.

A lot on wood. They said we've, they haven't had, like, a devastating direct hit over here on this side in, like, 100 plus years in this area. It's too. I know. That's scary, right? The clock is ticking. Oh, it's been, listen, the longer, the better chance there is is going to happen.

I mean, can't dodge every bullet. No. But if you look at, like, if you look at the shape of the Gulf of Mexico, you can tell that there's, it looks like fucking thousands and thousands of hurricanes have gone right up through there

and just taking all that out and they've eaten it all away. Just by the shape of the bottom half of the United States, you know? And it could, like, you, I wonder if eventually, due to you know whatever kind of weather events or climate change

or if like New Orleans and that whole area will eventually just sink into the fucking ocean like they say Miami sinking into the ocean Miami sinking into the ocean yeah you didn't know that you ever seen the Dan Pena video

no they're saying the climate change the climate change people oh the guy who screams in hot the old guy he's okay so there's a video the guy's wild as hell there's a video

Boziac loves him. That's Boziac. If he was rich and old, that'd be bozac. There's a video of this lady. This guy's like, I don't know what Dan Panya's story is. He's some sort of like, he lives, I think he lives in the UK. I have no idea. He lives in the UK.

He's some sort of big real estate, like billionaire, I guess. And some lady at some conference asked him a question about climate change and flying jets around. Doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He's rich this lady apart. He actually made a really good point, an interesting point about real estate. He goes, all these fucking beachfront condos and

beachfront homes in Miami and all up and down the East Coast and everywhere you go. Do you think the banks would loan money if they thought these places would be underwater in 10, 20, 30 years? Right. Typical mortgages on these places are 40. How long are they? 40 50 year mortgages. 30 to 40. Yeah.

So they're saying if these banks thought that climate change and the elevation of the oceans rising, we're going to take out these properties. They wouldn't invest in them. But I don't know. They might because if you look at the history of banks, they don't really give a fuck about the long term. They just care about the short, I mean, if you look at the housing crash and all the other shit, like the shit you were involved in in the 2006 crash, the banks clearly weren't that competent to like look deep into the fucking the loans and the mortgages and

well, yeah, there was, I mean, it was just their their belief that, that it couldn't crash for some reason. So, you know, they just weren't concerned because they just didn't think the entire economy could collapse and well bankers aren't like bankers aren't like economists right bankers aren't none of the economy almost none of the economists saw it coming you know like it was amazing like so few people saw it coming and so those people are now like you know they everybody thinks they're their their um fortune tellers now they're like oh my gosh you know they're like but all the signs were there like he you know why people just weren't looking people just believe that it just couldn't collapse.

And, you know, did you see the big short? Yeah, what's the guy's name again? So good. I forget the guy's name. The guy that Christian Bale plays. Yeah,

he's great. That's such a good movie. That's a great movie. It's a great movie. It's a great movie. It's a great movie because, like, I always mentioned this because I actually was talking about it today.

Is that if you watch, too big to fail, like that shows it from like the top up. Like what's happening. You never really, you know, you don't, you don't understand it on a,

on a very small level. like what's what was really right like you're looking down like hey bad things are happening here's why you never really get a sense but with the big short they really take you in like this is the problem this one guy this one girl this one like these brokers these brokers because of these bent like they show you the whole thing and then you start to go down to the very bottom right and then you're like is that enough what it is if you start adding zeros eventually it's this massive upside down you know pyramid that just collapses he's that king of diamonds in miami getting a last lap dance and the strippers telling him about all our condos. Yeah. And he's like, how many do you have? He's like, I thought you just had one. And she's like, no, I have seven. Oh, man, unbelievable. Red flag. It's a great scene.

Hey, pull out that Dan Pena video. I want to show that to Matt. I interviewed a guy today. I interviewed a guy today who's a foreclosure attorney. I texted it to you. Yeah. He's a foreclosure attorney. And he was doing foreclosures when I was in Ewar City. you know, running my scams.

And so he's like, I mean, I don't know if I foreclosed on any of the properties that you were involved in, but I did a whole podcast with him talking about foreclosures. Like, two hours. Yeah. You think he did someone yours? No, I mean, he said, I don't, he said he didn't have any idea, you know. Yeah. But it was, it was just interesting to talk to him.

Like, I could have talked to that guy forever. Yeah. I don't know if anybody will ever watch the video. He was doing it at the same time. Yeah, he was for the banks. He was foreclosing on people for the banks. And he's like, you know, and so we started. you know, just talking about the different thing.

And he had read my book. I actually went to a podcast. I went to a pod fest meeting and he was there. And it's funny because like I was leaving. And I said, oh, I understand. So you're an attorney. It was like, right. And I was like, yeah, I run like a YouTube channel here in Tampa.

If you're ever interested in coming in, I said, I mean, it's true crime. He goes, I know who you are, Mr. Kauf. And I was like, and he goes, I read your book. And I went, I start laughing. And I go, I like to Jess. And I go, ha ha. And I'm looking at him. Totally serious.

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, well, yeah, definitely, you know. I was like, if you're interested, he goes, okay. And but then a month or two went by and he contacted me and was like, he came on. Yeah, he came on. Oh, that's cool. He was much nicer. Like, he just seemed initially, I was like, did that seem odd to you?

She was, yeah, he didn't seem like he thought it was funny. Yeah. I said, no, he didn't. But he was super cool when he came on today. Maybe you're star struck. I'm interested to hear your take on this. Let's watch it. Yeah, I got a few, Bob.

Yeah. Okay. You support Trump? Yep. Okay. I was one of the first endorsers, public endorsers of President Trump. What are you guys going to do when our ocean level rises? Thank you for asking that question.

I have the answer. Don't let me finish. I have the answer. Let me finish. Well, thank you for the question. Yeah. Okay. For the first time on Earth, we're changing the gas.

Now you're full of shit. Sit down. I'm going to answer you. I'm going to just shut up and sit down. No way. Sit down. No. I've got to finish my question.

I'm going to answer global warming. I finish the question. That answer. It's changing on earth. And it's changing to CO2. What do you, people with the money? What are you doing about this? I'm going to tell you,

Now. I've got children. Oh, God. 21, 23 year old children. Yes, you're supposed to ask you. 21, 23, that's not a child. Yeah, really. You talk about money all of the time. He's steaming.

He's steaming right now. Sit down, please. In the front row. Excuse me. In the front row, please sit down. Okay, you've asked you a question. Thank you very much. Okay, I'm going to answer.

Excuse me, ma'am. Please sit down. Thank you. That's okay. Please sit down. That was pretty good of him to hold his composure there. In 2011. my wife and I were in Antarctica, renewing our vows.

For most of you, they don't know Antarctica's on a mountain top. Okay? And there is a $500 million facility, scientific facility there, and the scientists came to give us presentations about global warming. And they had cores of ice that they had drilled. They had drilled 4,000 or 5,000 cores, and they only brought 15 or 20. So they're going through the second or third quarter. core and they said

275,000 years ago, this was the temperature, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then 55,000 years ago, the world was two degrees warmer Celsius than it is today.

This is 2011. And, oh, stop, stop. And he said, and I said, well, you mean the whole world? He says, yes. And the polls are only benchmarks. And I said, well, what about the things

the young woman alluded to. Okay? And he said, it's all cyclical. And although the gas may have exacerbated it, in the cosmos of time, it's not a fart in the wind. In the cosmos of time of the 13.8 billion years that we've been on this miserable planet, it's not a fart in the wind. And as I told Joe Rogan on his show,

and he said in his infinite wisdom, and Joe, if you hear this, I thank you for the opportunity to be on your show. He said, then in 25,000 years, it's most likely not going to be a problem. Now, my direct answer to your question, if that were really true,

which you believe, and let's just for a moment say that it is true. That means that the best scenario vis-a-vis global warming is about 10 feet raising water. That's the best scenario over the next 40, 50 years.

That's the best scenario. The worst scenario, was about 100 feet. Well, let's just take the 10 feet. If the water on the planet is going to rise up 10 feet, that means the southern part of the United States is gone. England is gone. Most of Europe is gone.

And I can go, most of Central America is gone. Okay. If that's the case, let's just take Florida, for example. 10 feet, he's off. He's off. Condominium, beachfront condominiums. on the planet. In the prospectus, when you invest,

there should be, in the footnotes, if global warming is for real, they won't put it that way, global warming happens, and water rises 10 feet, this investment you made is fuck all. Now one single investment

prospectus written since 2000, this century, has alluded to global warming Now one motherfucker, if it were really true, the banks wouldn't invest. The banks wouldn't finance. Now one motherfucking condominium.

So the people that have the money, and I'm jealous of the vice president, Gore, which Sally and I wrote on a plane from South America a few years of it. I am jealous. He came up with a scam before I did. Because the financial institutions, the banks of this world, No, it's not going to happen. Otherwise, you couldn't get a goddamn loan in London. You know those 30, 40-year mortgages?

The world will be over by then. Is Barclay's Bank going to give you a motherfucking loan? With the greatest respect, ma'am. It's the greatest fraud that's been perpetrated on mankind this century. Hmm. Well, first of all, he's definitely wrong with the 10 feet thing. Yeah. Second of all, in Miami, even on the beaches here in Florida, all throughout the Carolina, is if you want to build any kind of new construction on the beach or anywhere near the beach on the barrier islands, you have to have the first whole fucking, like 20 feet of the building has to be solid concrete, unhabitable space, like parking garages and shit.

So that's definitely a thing. That doesn't necessarily mean it's because of the rising sea level. They don't say it. It's probably more insurance. It could be for insurance. It could be for flooding. It could be for hurricanes. It could be like...

For sure. That's the reason why, yeah. For like floods and stuff. And for water. That's basically the same thing. You'd be saying that the sea level rises, they wouldn't invest in these construction, building these giant, you know, high rises or buildings.

Not one motherfucker. You know, the problem with, you know, the problem with my view is that much like... What's his name again? Dan Payne. Dan Pena. Dan Pena's view, although I'd like to think my pitch would be way better, is that it's similar to his only because there are so many people making money at it, that it's like COVID, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So it's, you know, like they put themselves in a position to make a bunch of money. Then they create a crisis that they are able to profit from. Profit from. and then nobody says anything. Like, you know, COVID, like, you know, it's the same thing. Like, where are the hundreds of thousands of people

and millions or half a million people that died from COVID? Like, you know, I mean, people died. You know, it was a really bad cold. Yeah. But if 40 to 60,000 people a year die from the cold and a two or three hundred thousand died from COVID, okay, well, you're right, it's double, triple. Yeah.

But, you know, where were the millions? Oh, no. we fixed it, really? Because other countries that didn't do the same things that we did, they didn't have a problem. You know what I'm saying? Like there are other countries that just didn't shut down at all. They're like, yeah, we're done. Wear a mask, but we're just going to keep going. And that whole country's still there. Do they have some deaths? Yeah, they had some deaths. Like it's the same thing. To me, global warming is like, is the planet, you know, is it warming? Yeah. Would it do it without us? Yeah. You know, would it, are we contributing to it? Probably.

But the problem is it's like padding a file, right? So if I investigate you, there's a murder and there's five or six of us. And the police believe that Danny did it, then what they do is they interview enough people. And the people that all agree that Danny has said something bad about Hatrack and they're going to, there have been in bad blood. And he was had talked about him. I heard him say something and this and that. Those are the ones that they really write everything out. The other guys that say, well, you know, there were some issues.

between the two of them and they go, okay, but do you know? You know, well, no, I don't think, but he didn't kill him. I know he didn't. I think this. I think, okay, so you don't really know. No.

Oh, okay. Well, no, I don't. Okay, so then they put, well, I talked to him, but he was non-responsic, right? They only really focus on the people that support their theory. So when you're done,

you have 150 people that were interviewed and you've got 40 people that 100% say that Danny killed Hatrack. you know and so the other people were all like yeah he didn't see anything he didn't have anything conclusive he didn't really have anything so they they really only focus on the people that support them and before you know it all you've got is people that say that you murdered him and the truth is it would you know it could have been anybody else

there were other people who had stronger motives and then if you go to trial well then they just put those people on the stand you know because the prosecution can't do a thorough investigation like the police can and it's the same thing like so if you if i'm saying hey i want to come up with the whole I want to come up with a, do a whole investigation into global warming. I need money from the government to support my, you know, my scientific endeavor, my experiments or whatever. They go, okay, they give, oh, it's for global warming. Okay, so you think there's global warming? Yeah, I absolutely believe there is.

And I think this will help prove it here. Now, if you say, no, actually, the data I've covered so far doesn't prove that there is global warming. I need a grant. They go, yeah, we're not, we're not, no. No, it's not going to get it. Now, if that same guy came back, said, listen, we've spent a lot of proof. We found something. We think there's definitely global warming.

They go, would you need some money? But before you know it, all you have is scientists that are out there that are in support of global warming. They get to talk on CNN. They get to talk on all these platforms. They get pushed. They get funded. The people that are saying that it's not really a thing. Like, is there a contribution?

Well, sure, probably. But the people that are saying, no, and I have proof, don't get funding. They don't get picked up and get, they don't get to talk on CNN. They don't get invited to the conferences. Before you know it, they just kind of fall to the wayside. Like, you can prove anything with enough money. I mean, listen, they used to tell people that cigarettes were good for your lungs. Yeah.

You know, and there were science behind it. Like, oh, no, we did a study. We got 400 people and we this and we that and the capacity of the, come on. They're strong. Are you serious? Like, it's, you know, it's the same things that we think. And by the way, when I was growing up, And the concept, like they act like this concept came up in like 2005 or something like that.

Listen, I was hearing about it when I was in school. And like fourth and fifth grade, there were tech books that were talking about global warming. But, and by the way, so within 30 years, like half of Florida was supposed to be gone. We're still here. Yeah. And what happened? There's tons of countries out there that aren't even agreeing with any of this. Like, China's not cutting back.

Yeah. Not at all. Right. but you have to pay money in if you if you put out this much of a carbon footprint on your factory you have to pay in this money and this money why are we paying in all this money these other countries aren't paying in any money yeah like how much have we really you know cut back I don't I just don't I just don't see it and it's like oh well the proof yeah the proof now but in six months or six years or 50 years listen 100 years from now people might be laughing their ass off

wasn't these nice thought. Yeah. They were warming the fucking planet. I'm gonna believe this. Mm-hmm. As much as we laugh about people, you know, healing you by putting leeches on you

and sucking the bad blood out. It's like... Yeah. Well, they try to make it into something way more than it really is. Like, people like, like, like that lady who was in the stands talking to Dan Pena, she's like,

my children. My children. What are you gonna do? It's the same thing with like the vaccines. People, they make it a part of their fucking being. Like, it's what, it's like, Like political people, like hardcore Trump supporters, that's part of their identity and who they are. What's the same thing on the other side?

Like people get on both sides. Yeah, on both sides. Like I just doesn't, it just kills me when like, like you and I can't be friends because you believe this and I believe that. Okay, well, why? So you believe that. Okay, that's fine. I'm sure there's lots of things that we disagree on. Yeah.

Why can't we be friends? Right. Like, because you want to build. housing funded by the government that supports pedophiles and child molester Why would you do that? You want a wall

You want a wall That's wrong I mean bro what are you talking about I just want to secure the borders I just don't want people to come over here You know Biden I just heard Maybe you can Google this

But Biden just like did something To fund some giant part of the wall Like fixing He just put a bunch of money Into like filling in a gap of the wall In Texas I think And nobody covers it. It's not anywhere on CNN.

Did you see? Was it there was some mall shooting? I forget how long it was a few weeks ago. I saw a clip a few weeks ago where they were in like a mall or something. And some guy pulled out a gun and started shooting people. And some other guy who had a carry permit pulled his gun out and shot him from got like 200 feet away and just killed him. Right. Nobody covers it.

Nope. Yeah. Why? He legally had a gun and he killed the guy. And saved people. Right. Where's gun control? Right.

What about the people that don't want? The guy who saved it, who shot the bad guy, he was illegally carrying a gun? He was legally carrying a gun. He was legally carrying a gun. That's what I thought. I mean, there's lots of stuff like that. You just never hear about it. I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

It's the Andrew Tate thing with me and these, me and these people in Los Angeles. Well, you and these people, what do you mean? Oh, I didn't tell you. Los Angeles people. What are you talking about? Oh, my God. So I was doing a, I was,

I, was I hired or partnered with, I partnered with a company that I was doing a true crime series on, you know, on me being in prison, interviewing these guys and writing their stories. So this guy was for a,

a company what's it called? Little Everywhere. It's a podcast company. I'd listen to some of their stuff. Like I'd actually gone to Los Angeles and met with them. The guy's name was Dan. And it was really nice.

Like there was two people I met them. They were super nice. And so I meet them. And, you know, we talked on and off. And eventually we end up, you know, kind of, bro, this could be a podcast on it in and up itself. I mean, honestly, this is a fucking hour-long thing. I'll wrap it up.

That basically we started to make it. No, you can talk about it. We got time. We started doing this, we started doing the series about the first, it was going to be several different, several different stories I'd done, right? Like I think it was going to be like Marcus Schroenker. Like a TV series? No, no, it was just a podcast, like an audio podcast.

And they sell theirs to like these big time podcasts. Like they have a bunch of super cool podcasts. Okay. Like the nice serial? Like the produced podcasts. Yes. Yeah. heavily produced.

Right. Amazing. Like great. They do great work. Yeah. It's like an audio documentary basically. Exactly. Exactly. I'm trying to think of what I listened to. They did one on all different types of scams, like a multi-level marketing scams and stuff. Really, really cool. So we met, we talked, we negotiated for however long.

Dan, super nice guy. And, you know, initially when we met, it was going to happen right away. Like, you know, as soon as we're done, we're going to start taking. You know, okay. So we eventually come to an agreement and we're going to do like Marcus Schroinker's story. Then we were going to do, what was the other story? Oh, then we're going to do like like Carrie's story. Then we were going to like Carrie Leet, sorry, another story I wrote. We were going to do pain. We were going to do, um, uh, uh, atonement.

Like I have like three or like three or four stories we're going to go over. So we start recording one of the stories. It took months and months we recorded. Like two hours here, three hours here, four hours here. Like it really dragged on. Are you recording them out there in Los Angeles? No, no. We're doing it like they sent me a mic.

The head said the whole thing. It's all going through. Not Stream Yard. Another company. So we do this whole thing. I thought it was really coming out. I thought it was good. Dan was doing it.

And then suddenly he got another project. He had to go do this, go do that. And it kept dragging and dragging and dragging. Like half the stuff they said was going to happen on the time frame it was going to happen didn't happen. Yeah. But, you know, that's fine. Like, I was glad to, you know, be like they were, like it was going to be a real thing, right? Like, this thing literally was like over a year and change where they were going to have it done within very quickly.

Turned out they dragged me for over a year and change. Fine. Then Dan comes back and he says, and he says, here's the thing. He said, we just got hooked up with another. big production company. I don't know if it was Apple or who this other, this other podcast type of whatever thing was, right? Like a platform? Like I don't know who it was. Like it was. Like it was like Apple or somebody who's. Somebody big. Exactly. It was big. They just got in good with them. They were like listen and they want true crime. They said so Dan goes, the problem is Matt, like we didn't do a great

job the first time. He was and I thought it was good. And he said the problem is you and I became much more friendly towards the end, joking around, getting to know each other and having fun with it. He said, then we did initially. So would it bother you if we redid the whole thing? And I thought, oh, my God, damn. This is like 12 hours or something, 12 to whatever. And I was like, you know, but I'm going to be a good sport. Yeah.

No problem. I said, no problem, bro. I mean, I want to get the best result possible. Like, you know. And keep in mind, too, like the deal we worked out was great for me. Not great for me. It was a good solid deal. Like I'm getting so much money per episode, which I hadn't been paid one time. Like we're supposed to be every episode, but that's fine.

That didn't happen. That's fine. Then once they sell the series, I was going to get a portion of the revenue that created from either the sale of the show or and the back end. Like if it, sometimes they just put it up and you get the ad revenue. Sometimes the place just buys it from you. Either way, I got a portion of that. I'm looking to make a chunk of money and have a really good version of my stories out there. And then those stories, I get to keep a portion of the intellectual property if it's sold.

Like a lot of these things are being turned in. They had some that had been optioned and were being turned into things. So I'm excited. Things are good. We start doing it again. We get about halfway through the whole thing. And now they've hired a girl named Joy. Joy is a, what do you call that?

Shoot, there are websites on there. I forget, Joy's, it's, yeah, wait, who's, well, Joy is, I don't know, what do you call her? What do they call her? Whatever, she's like a video, like a producer, video producer. Okay. So, joy, and I think I pretty much talk to everybody there. Who's that? Calling you.

No, I don't know. That's Mike Hudson. So anyway, yeah, that's Dan. So. You got neck tattoos. Yeah, he was in some band. He was in like a big time ban or something. Modest mouse, it says.

He was in modest mouse? After years touring and recording with band's modest mouse. Damn. That's wild. Right. Okay. Super nice guy. Joy. Joy seemed nice. We start redoing all the things again.

Great. We're redoing it again. Halfway. actually almost done because we were at the point where like Shrinker was like had like jumped out of the airplane and you know that kind of stuff right and at one point when we were sitting there I was talking about the financial crisis we got into to the point where the financial crisis that happened and and basically Bernie Madoff had gotten arrested and that kind of uncovered Marcus Shrinker's scam where he was running a Ponzi scheme one of the schemes he was doing was a Ponzi scheme so that ended up I said as a result of that people started wanting their money back and want to know where their money was and now it very quickly unraveled he's running a Ponzi scheme himself and so as we're talking about it um all of a sudden joy kind of just starts shaking her head right because i'm on like stream yard or zoom or something yeah she kind of just starts shaking her head yeah and i remember going and and i could see she's shaking her head and i think dan said joy something wrong yeah and joy goes keep me

mind they're in they're in California yeah yeah and joy says well it just got me thinking about you know just just this this whole government in general and okay and and I and I you know I didn't say anything and then he goes well what do you mean joy she says you know just what a scam the whole system is you know it's this whole system that's set up by these old white guys that just set up this whole system and um she said you know it's just it's just all basically she said it's just all basically she said it's just all a scam. And I was like, and so I'm sitting there like, it's such an odd thing to say in the middle of this conversation. And, and so then, she's recording with you. She's one of the producer. She's on, but she doesn't have a microphone. She's not part of the show. No, she does. Well,

I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't know yet because I have never heard an episode. Keep in mind, this is over a year and change they've been having me do these. Right, but you're never produced anything. Like, I've never heard anything. But so, so to get, I'm trying to understand, like, what the dynamic here. The dynamic is, you're sitting in your house. You're sitting in your house recording on a microphone and you're looking at them on telling the story. Oh, by the way, they had me build out a

whole thing with a mic. Like I've invested hundreds of dollars into this whole thing, this whole production so that I can get the best. I'm in a closet with all of these the, what do you, the styrophone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing is like, soundproofing. Like it's perfect. In a closet,

carpet, the soundproofing, the mics, everything. Yeah. And so I'm sitting there. And the way, it's supposed to work. It's like Dan is going to be asking me questions and I'm telling him a story and he would interject every once in a while we'd laugh. But now she's involved too whether or not she was going to be a part of the program. I don't know. Yeah. You know, they never got that far. So we're now on like 20 some odd hours of doing this and at least. And so she says, you know, a bunch of old white guys set up the system, this and that. It's completely rigged. And I was like, okay, right. And she's like, you know, it's just so, it's the whole whole thing's unfair. And this whole,

Like she starts in with like the Constitution and all kinds of the, and I'm kind of like, okay. And then, you know, I don't want to, like, I don't want to jump on it. Yeah. I don't want to jump on it because I already get this vibe. She's young. They're in California. She's ready to snap.

They're extremely liberal. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to say anything. Okay. And then Dan said, makes a comment like, Matt, what do you think about that? Oh, fuck. And I went. He just spiced it up.

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Mm-hmm. You know, like, you know, I'm sure that we have very different views. And I looked, and I, so I said, you know, here's the way I look at it, Joy. I said, things aren't always out they seem.

And I said, I get it. Like, you're unhappy? I said, but let me put it like this. I said, do you know what is a wonderful concept? And she goes, what? I said, communism. communism and socialism and those types of government, you know, ideologies are wonderful. We all work together collectively. We share in the in our, in the fruits of our labor. We're all in it

together. Everything is equal. I said it's a wonderful concept. It doesn't work. It's never successfully worked. It never will. Because at their heart, people will look out for themselves. There is corruption. It is everywhere. And she's, oh, you don't, you don't think that we're a corrupt society? I go, I do, but I think we're one of the least corrupt society. Not that there's not corruption, but one of the least. I said, now, you know what's a horrible concept? And she goes, what? I go, I said, capitalism. It's horrible. You take advantage of people. You work hard to be over other people. You get to keep the fruits of your labor and other people. I said, it's horrible. I go, but it works. And I said, and if you're not happy with it, there's lots of countries in Europe that I'm

sure you'll be happy with. Send me a postcard. I said, I mean, you know, and I wish you well. You know, yeah, like, you know, I get it. Like, I understand. Not everybody's happy. And I said, so, I said, so what else are we doing? And I could see it in her face. Steeman.

She's upset. Yeah. We finish out the whole thing. It's fine. A week later, we have another meeting. We set it up. We're doing everything. Everything's fine.

We're going on, this and that, this and that. I can feel joy's irritated. She already doesn't like me. Well, first of all, I'm an old white guy. Yeah. So I can tell there's tension there. And so as we're going, something happens. And I forget what she said, but she said something about, like I mentioned something about Marcus Schrenker.

And I might have mentioned something about his girlfriend or he had a girlfriend and he put her in a condo down the street from his wife. And I don't know exactly what the situation was. But I said something that sparked her to say. It was still out of like, once again, it came out of nowhere. It's like she was looking for an opportunity to injecting for something. Right. And it was like, that doesn't really make sense, but okay. And she threw in, she's like, well, she's like, you know, it just makes me think about all these misogynistic men like Andrew Tate.

And you know what she said? She said something about Gary Vee. I never got to the bottom of that. I know. Like, I don't think of Gary V as being misogynistic. But I don't know. I don't watch too. I watch some of his stuff.

But so she said something about Andrew Tate. And I said, yeah, what about that? Right. I said, like, they took that dude off of. everything. And then she said, she goes, why wouldn't they?

She goes, he's a, he's a sex trafficker. And I went, what? She's a sex trafficker. And I went, I never heard that one.

I said, I actually had. I said, you know, I said, Joy, I think I know what you're talking about. I said, because I've heard him talk about this.

I said, I, you understand? I said, he wasn't there, he wasn't, he wasn't, he was arrested because there was a girl that was at his party.

She was, he was holding people, um, against their, Will, he was sex trafficking, and I went, no, I said, that's not what I heard. And she said, well, what did you hear? And I said, I heard from Andrew Tate. He had been arrested. He was having a party. There was an American girl at the party in Romania. The girl was talking, was texting with her boyfriend. He said, well, I want you to leave the party. And she said, I can't leave the party. I'm not able to

leave and she stopped responding to his text. He got nervous. He called the local police. The police came out. They arrested Andrew Tate. When they got her downtown after they printed him and arrested him and his brother, I think it was him and his brother. The girl said, admitted that, look, I was at the party. I didn't want to tell my boyfriend that I didn't want to leave. And this is what I texted him. And they said, oh, okay, and they dropped the charges. Okay. So I said, that's what. I said, now that got turned into other things and people are saying he's a sex trafficker. I said, but mostly people are saying that are basically women that hate him. And so Dan doesn't even know who Andrew Tate is.

And so she says, she goes, that's not true. She was arrested and I went, I understand he was arrested, but the charges were dropped. She said, yeah, who knows why? I said, well, here's the thing, Joy. I said, if you arrest me for murder, you don't get to throw me in prison and keep me in prison forever. I said, there's due process. I said, so anybody can be accused of rape or anything, get arrested, then they go through the process. I said, obviously they didn't have enough to charge him. They dropped it.

I said, so I'm not going to throw someone in jail because she goes, he should be in jail. And I go, I'm not going to throw somebody in jail because you accused him of something. Yeah. You have to have proof. You know, like it always sounds good when you're some young girl who's never been through the system as opposed to. And then the next time somebody blames says, she did this and she did. And they arrest her. She'll be like, this is so unfair.

What do you mean? I'm treating you the way you wanted to treat everybody else. So I say, yeah, yeah, that's not what I heard. That's not this. I'm trying to be nice about it, bro. And then Dan, I can see here already. Dan throws in something, makes a comment about something and something else and says something. And then he says, you know, Matt, he goes, a year ago.

No, I know. I said, look, I said, just because you dislike the guy, doesn't mean that everything he says is wrong. I said, I certainly don't believe in censorship. And she went, I don't think he should be censored. And she went, why? And I was like, I said, because you just shouldn't be censoring people. I said, just because you disagree with one thing that he said doesn't mean that everything. I've heard him say stuff that I disagree with.

I've heard him say stuff that I do agree with. And she says, and Dan says, like what? And she says, like, what? What do you agree with? And she's disgusted now, by the way. because I haven't been adamant that he should be hung and beaten to death. She's furious that he didn't get locked away in a Romanian prison, you know, because some girl accused or some girl's boyfriend, she didn't even say it. And they dropped the charges.

So, okay. So I'm like, well, I'll give you an example. I said, I heard this and I thought this was kind of funny. And she goes, they were like, what's that? I said, for instance, I said, one time he was saying, Like, as a man, you have to work your entire life. You work your whole life. You'd make all the right decisions.

You work hard. You work 68 hours a week. You save your money. You make the right calls. You take risks. You eventually end up buying $100 million. You've got tons of money. You end up building like you buy a $100 million yacht.

As a woman, you can be a 22-year-old hot chick with a makeup kit. Get on that yacht and end up with it. And what I mean by that, I think it's pretty obvious. She ends up hooking up with a guy. Maybe she gets pregnant. They get married. They get divorced. She ends up with the yacht.

Like, that's pretty self-evident. And she's like, they're like, what does that mean? I go, in my experience, as a woman, as an attractive woman, you can get a lot from a guy. You can get a lot in general. Amber heard. Listen. And so now she's furious. She's disgusted.

And I, and she is, what? And she's just like, and I go, look, let me give you. I said, just, she goes, in my experience, that's not. case at all. I've worked hard for what I've got. I did it. And I said, I don't doubt that at all. I don't doubt that you've worked hard for what you have. I'm not saying that. I'm saying in general, it's possible. I said, let me give you an example. Example of this would be, I said, I met my wife, my ex-wife. I said, I met my ex-wife. She came in the office, filled out a thing. I asked her out. We went out a couple of times. Two months later, she's pregnant. She gets pregnant. I, you know,

the alternative of her, you know, having an abortion or whatever, like, that's not something I'm interested in doing. And she's like, well, I want to get, I want to get married then. I say, okay, we'll get married. You know, if we get married, we'll get married. Then if it doesn't work out, we'll get a divorce. We get married. I said, I end up buying her 54 rental properties over the course of a year, all fraud. In her name, she's got over a couple million dollars worth of real state at this point. Things go bad for me. I get arrested. Now I'm not going to be provided an income. She's not interested. It's a bad marriage. We break up. We get a divorce. I give her $100,000, pay off her credit cards, pay off her her car, give her a couple thousand dollars a month for child

support. She keeps all the real estate and the house, everything. I walk away with my clothes after three years. And I look at Joy and I said, do you know what she did to acquire all of that? And she goes, what? I said, she was pretty. She married you. And she married me. I said, so my experience is that a woman has the option. A pretty woman can get pretty far. I said, so, and now she's furious. Now, that's my experience. I know lots of guys who have been taken to the cleaners. Like, that's a real thing. You can look it up. How many people have, do you know? Tiger Woods. Well, not just. That. But look, look, it's still good, though. It's unfair.

It's unfair that if you and I, not you and I, but me and some woman we meet, she gets pregnant. I don't want to have the baby. She says I'm going to have the baby. She has the baby. I now have to pay child support from here on out. Like that's not fair. But if she says, I don't want to have the baby, she can have an abortion. I can say, no, no, no, no, you can, I want to keep that baby.

I'll keep it. I'll raise it. You can pay child support. You don't think it's fair that you should have to pay child support if you get a girl pregnant, just the baby? No, I don't think it's fair that it's her decision. Yeah. What if I, what, you're telling me the girl's pregnant. Yeah.

And I say, listen, I don't want to have anything to do with the kid, have an abortion. And she says, no. Okay, well, I don't want to have a baby. But you're the one who fucked her and got her pregnant. She wasn't she 50% there? Yeah. She should, she should have, she should have been on the pill. She should have said wear a condom.

She could have contributed to. She was a part of it. We're 50-50 in this. Right. She wants the baby. Then you can have the baby. Why should I have to pay child support if I don't want to have the baby? You're making me have to pay the, right.

You see it's a double standard. If I say, fine, have the baby, I'll take the baby. You don't want anything to do with the baby. You don't have an abortion. I'll take the baby. And you have to pay me child support. That's the reverse. But guess what?

That's not okay with you. That's what you're saying. Right. Now, I'm not, I get society. That's the way it is. It's a double standard. I get it. That's fine.

I'm okay, I'll pay child support. My point is, people don't look at it that way. So what I'm saying is I have this conversation with Joy. She then starts talking about white men having privilege. And I agree, you know, there's been some privilege there. Absolutely. And so we have that conversation. I said, you know, but Joy, the problem is I said, I said, you're making it sound like she just hated all white people, all white men, hated them all.

They were all wrong. They all got professional. If they had anything, it's because they stole it from someone. And I'm like, you know, the problem is, I said, I know lots of guys that simply worked hard, came up with an invention, came up with some kind of a system, came up with a business, worked hard and made a lot of money. I said, whether they're white or black doesn't make a difference. I know people like this. I'm sure there are black people that the same thing has happened. So it doesn't, at this point, I backed myself into a corner.

I couldn't get out of it. you're done. At this point, she's now telling me that I'm a racist. Yeah, you're, she's telling you that. Oh, she's saying, not just that, listen, this is, this was when I stopped talking. At this point, when she said, you know, it's racism, it's misogynistic. And I'm like, what are you talking about? She ends up saying, and she goes, you don't have any idea. She's that woman on the boat that you were talking about? I went, yeah. And I'm keeping my composure. She's not. So she's that woman on the boat. She goes, she is not just, is that unfair. She goes, it's, it's, she's, for one thing, she goes, and she's in danger.

And I went, she's in, what? She's in danger. And I went, being on that boat with some old white guy. And I went, what do you talk? Nobody said anybody was in danger. She went on the boat voluntarily. She ends up hooking up with the guy voluntarily. She chose that.

And she's, no, she's in danger. And I looked at her, I went, Joy, by that logic, I go, every woman, everywhere is always in danger. And she goes, exactly, exactly. That's it. Now you get it. And I went, okay. Yeah. Okay.

I get it. Then Dan says, you know, Matt, a year ago when we started this project. Exactly. A fucking year ago. You've wasted a fucking year of my time. A year. You guys have been dragging me on this. So he goes, a year ago, when we started this project.

He said, I went to look up this thing. It was a, it was a, there was a local news program in Georgia that was looking for me and the chick I was on the run with, right? And they called us, you know, John and Jane Doe. And there was a broadcast about it. He goes, you know the John and Jane Doe broadcast where the Secret Service was looking for? You know, right? He is, a year ago, I was able to find that. I go, okay, he says, I looked for it the other day.

I said, okay. And he said, I wasn't able to find it. And I went, okay, like, how did this come? This is out of nowhere. And I went, okay. He goes, he said, a year ago when I looked you up and I was looking for it, he was, there was one or two videos. He goes, there's hundreds of videos of you now.

It's all I could find were these videos. And I went, okay. And he said, what are you saying on these videos? He's disgusted by me now, by the way. Why? I don't know. He's on Team Joy. Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, he goes, he says, I'm disgusted. He doesn't say I'm disgusting. He said, he goes, I've been looking and there's hundreds of videos. And I went, he goes, what are you saying in these videos? What is he referring to? What videos? All the YouTube, all my videos. Podcast?

Yeah, podcast. Yeah, YouTube videos. Yeah. And I went, okay. And he said, I, what are you saying on these videos? And I went, I don't know. I said, just I interview. I interview, you know, criminals.

You know what I do? Yeah. And he's disgusting. And he looks at me and he goes, are you saying misogynistic, racist things like this? Now, now I'm a race, now it's racism. Yeah, yeah. He goes, are you, this is a chick who's saying, by the way, when I mentioned,

when she was talking about Andrew Tate and I said, yeah, yeah, and he, Dan said, who's Andrew Tate? And I said, ah, he's this guy. I said, uh, and she goes, he's a racist. And I went, I'm pretty sure he's. black. And she goes, she goes, no, she's mixed. And I go, his father's black. Andrew Tate's father's black? Yeah. Really? I didn't know that. And she goes,

she's no, he's mixed. He's mixed. I'm just like, look, like, you, like, she's like, I am really being attacked by this shit. This guy, Dan, he ain't doing nothing. Yeah, yeah. Nothing. He's been spicing it up the whole time anyway. Yeah, he's, he's not helping me at all. He's turned into this. I think you set this up. Oh, listen, it's, it's horrible. I mean, there's nothing I can do. And I'm not honest, to be honest, honest. Like I felt like I was being attacked. So I wasn't trying to say anything. Like I wasn't trying to say like, look, you know, the whole thing is like, and this is the thing, there's nothing you can say. Like me explaining, look, I have tons of friends that are black. Like my buddy, Zach, you know, I got, you know, Juan is a buddy of mine. Big Hurk. He's a big her. We're good friends. We're like this. So, yeah, so I mean, it's like I have no problem with, with anybody. My ex-wife. was Puerto Rican. You know what I'm saying?

Like, my son's half Puerto Rican. Like, it's like, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? Like, what do you, she's desperate to try and turn me into this evil, I don't know, old white guy, which she said. Racist, misogynistic. Right, multiple times. So I'm not even trying.

At this point, it's like, I don't even want to talk to you people. Yeah. Like, I'm done. But Dan says, what are all these videos? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know, Dan. I'm just interview. And I said, I just interview because are you saying racist, like, misogynistic thing? I'm like racist.

Like what the fuck? Like she's saying, oh, women are in danger. Like my girlfriend's not in danger. I even asked Jess when she came home. Baby, do you feel like you're in danger when you go to work and I'm not around? Like, or in general? And she is, from what? And I was like, and I told her what happened.

And she was like. Jess would probably put an ass open on you. Oh, yeah. She booms and that, listen, she pulled a knife out and just cut you. So anyway, so as we're talking. At this point, I tell Dan, I said, well, Dan, I suggest you start watching the videos if you're concerned about it. Yeah. Like, you didn't watch him? And he was mad, there's hundreds of videos. I go, right. I interview criminals. Watch some of them. I don't say anything

derogatory. I don't say anything. I said, first of all, I don't even think I've said anything wrong. I'm sorry that you disagree. Yeah. We have a difference of opinion, you know? And, and to me, it's like, to me, I'm still thinking, well, we're just going to go on. Like, okay, well, this didn't work out. I'm sorry. Let's go on with the story. Like, we're professionals. We've signed a contract. We have an agreement. Let's move on. They, they won't let it go. And then, Dan says, listen, Matt, after hearing all of this, and it's, it's, it's very, very upsetting. Very upsetting. He said, after hearing all this, he said, I really feel like, we need to talk about this.

Joy, Dan, and I forget the chick, there's another chick that runs the place. Her name is, oh, there, yeah, Jane. She says, Jane, she was Jane. Don't put this on there. I don't want to fucking out all these people. Okay, all right, cool. So Jane and Dan and Joy, they have to get together and have a, have a discussion. And I'm like, about what?

Just about what we've heard here today. Oh, he goes, you don't understand Matt. He said, all of our priorities, all of our values need to be in line. And I was like, oh, okay, Dan. All right. I said, well, let me know what's going on. Sounds like Dan was getting pressured by all these people. So listen, when it's all said and done, like I'm thinking, eh, he's going to

call me up in a couple days and say, okay, well, we're just going to keep going. No problem. Instead, he calls me up and he says, Matt, we had a, we had a discussion and I want to let you know that we've chose not to move forward with this project. You've wasted over a year of my time, hours and hours. You tied up all of, do you know how many people approached me about doing something with that intellectual property that they tied up for over a year? How long? How long? You're many opportunities I didn't take because of what they did. Yeah, that's bullshit. It's, it's like, I'm like at this point, he goes, he goes, and you know, the problem is that it's not even what you said. It's the fact that you were so flippant about it. That you weren't, you weren't upset about

it at all. So I wasn't outraged properly because, you know, here's the thing that, that, that's comical about this. Do you realize that I was in prison for 13 years? I was looking to, I was going to be in prison for, until, until 2030. And I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to take what, I'm supposed to take your, your little crusade seriously. Like, I have serious problems. Like, I know what serious problems are. This is like a guy going to Iraq and being shot.

at and then coming home and wanting to argue over, you know, gender studies or something. It's like, what are you doing, bro? Like, I was, I was in prison. Guys were getting stabbed and trying and raping each other. And, you know, I'm looking at doing, you know, 20 some odd years in prison. And I get out now and you're upset because I think that pretty girls get further than unattractive girls. And they've turned that into, Dan was like, all the women that I know have had to struggle to get to where they are. And he said like, Jane would love to give you a piece of her mind. It's like, I never, I never said that that Jane or any women haven't struggled to, like, I didn't say that. Like, in their mind, they turned me into the most evil person they could because I said

that if you're a pretty 22 year old and you play your cards right, you could probably, end up marrying some guy and get a chunk of money. And that happens all the time. Johnny Carson's wife got something like $40 million or something. They were married like three years. Like how many guys marry some chick and five years later they walk away with $20 million they'd never see. Yeah.

Like it's like, oh no, they didn't do that on purpose. Like that does happen. I'm not saying it's everywhere. I'm saying that what I said makes sense. Right. Like I probably have the, well, I probably have the same values that they have. I didn't say it correctly.

This kind of brings us back to a conversation we've had. very early on in our discussions, not on this podcast, but on previous ones, where we've talked about trying to rely on other entities to carry your story or sell some project for you

or some show or some whatever. When you put all your eggs in their basket, you're basically yielding to their ideas, their business, their goals, their everything. Like you fucked yourself. because you gave up all these opportunities by hoping that they're going to do something for you.

Well, it wasn't even hoping. I have a contract. Right. Like, we have an agreement. Yeah. I do this. You do this. Instead, along the line, they decided that I was a racist, misogynistic.

You know, I don't even know what the other things they think I am. Like, it just, it was like, you guys went so left field on this thing. It's insane. Like it was, it was, and there was nothing I could do to back pedal. No, you're done at that point. I wasn't even super trying. To be honest, I wasn't trying hard because it seems so silly to me. Like, like given what I think is truly serious and what the way they were behaving, because I get it in their world, it's a big deal.

Because they haven't faced the things I've faced in the race. No. So to them, that's huge. I keep snorting in the fucking What are you doing over there, bro? What? I keep, like snoring in the mic.

It's going to like really piss people off. You gotta stop doing it. So, yeah. So I'm assuming you never got paid. No, you know what they did was they paid me? And initially, you know what we were, I was told?

I was initially told that we were going to do like one story was going to span two or three episodes. There would be 12 episodes. And we would do like three stories throughout the season. instead they suddenly turned one of my stories into what would probably be the whole series and suddenly I ended up getting paid like one time when I was done telling the one story like it wasn't what we had agreed on at all and in the time after he told you that this was only a few weeks ago like this is a few weeks ago and then you know what happened was he told me Dan called Dan said look we're going to go ahead and we're going to release you from the contract. He said, I'm going to have our lawyer write something up and just let you know that you're being released from the contract. He's like, not that I have to. Not that you have to. Like, you haven't produced anything. Yeah. You haven't finished anything. You didn't produce. You didn't do anything. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you're lucky I don't sue you. So and so he says all that and he goes. He said, yeah. He said, you know, but I want to let you know, Matt, that, you know, I, I, you know, that I want you to let you to like, I, you know, that I, I want you to, like, I, I, I want you to, like.

you know that, you know, I still consider you a friend. A friend. Danny, I don't, I haven't fucked over any of my friends, you know, like, I don't fuck over friends. Like, what are you talking like? Like, he clearly doesn't think that he fucked me over or that he was, like, in their mind, wasted your time for all that. They, they laid awake that night and thought they'd done a good thing. Yeah. Because I said, pretty girls get further than unattractive girls. Like, it's like I said one thing and now they think that I that I'm that I I that I guess they think I have assault wife rifles and then I'm out there you know hunting hunting down you know people and I'm like I don't know what they think I'm doing or who who they think I am but they came up with

and here's all the that whole discussion between Jane and Dan and Joy I wasn't there like Joy had already turned me into a racist. She'd already said misogynistic. She'd already said that all women are in danger. Sold you out. I mean, man. It was the most bizarre thing I've ever been a part of. It's similar to like the Andrew Tate thing, right?

If they don't like what Andrew, if they don't like what Andrew Tate's saying, now they want to fucking label him with the sex trafficker. Well, because he's a sex trafficker. But now, oh, Matt Cox said all these things that don't sound good. He agreed with Andrew Tate. You said, I said one thing. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, guess what? Andrew Tate also believes that, like, the Muslim religion is the best religion out there. Does he really? Yeah, because he said, he made some comment, like, if you were, if you said, were a t-shirt that said something negative about

Muhammad or something, and you tried to walk across a Muslim country, they'd kill you. He said, if you could say, something negative about Jesus on a T-shirt and walk through a Christian country they wouldn't do anything. He's like that's why Muslims are the best. It's like

you're an idiot. You know, like I can literally pick 95% of the stuff that he says. He's an idiot. He says a lot of dumb ass shit. He also says a lot of like joking stupid shit. Right. The thing about like if there was a, what do you say? If a dude was dying suffocating and a woman was suffocating he wouldn't if it was his brother, he wouldn't resuscitate

his brother because he'd rather fucking give mouth the mouth of this hot chick or something. Right. Something stupid. Yeah. He says lots of stupid things. But here's the whole thing. Like, I didn't say any of that because the venom oozing out of this chick was outright.

Like, I was absolutely being attacked. Like, I felt like, like, and I knew there was nothing I could say. Like, I'm like, you could never bring her back. Right. I mean, I tried, I made one attempt and she was so disgusted that it was just like, I mean, what am I doing here? Like, I'm like, why am I going to argue about this? Like, I'm supposed to be in prison right now, bro. Like, I got to see it.

I'm not going to get upset about this. I'm not going to take this seriously. Like, I'm good. What do you think it is about people like joy? Like what, like we know other people. We have mutual friends. We've been in the same situation with people that me and Shane work with, friends of ours that have talked,

that have, we've been in the same kind of discussion before in our little circle. What do you think it is with people like them? Why do you think they're like that? And why are they so vehemently stuck on those ideas? And so, like, with every fiber of their being, it is like, they are right and you are wrong and there's no discussion to be had. I think that in this case, I could tell. I felt like these two were trying to justify that they had a better moral compass of better values than that they were. Essentially, it's almost like religion.

Like, you know, it's like, I'm a Christian. You're a Muslim. I'm better than you. I'm going to heaven. You're going to hell. And like, to me, even that, it's like, okay, I get it. That's fine. Yeah.

But even then. There's no discussion about it. There's no discussion. Not just that, but like to me, you know, I could be Jewish and, you know, you could be, you know, you could be a Catholic. And the truth is, like, to me, we can still be friends. Like, we have a difference of opinion. You know, we'll move on. But literally, Dan said this to me.

He said, after thinking about it, we decided that we don't want to give you a platform. Thanks, bud. And he said, I mean, you already have a platform, a channel. So we just don't want to give someone like, and then he kind of stopped himself. It was like basically someone like you. Someone like you. Like we don't want to give you a platform. Like, you know, because the truth is this program probably would have been big.

And he doesn't want to give me a platform to, to elevate me or elevate my cause or whatever it was. And the truth is like, I don't have a cause. I'm telling stories. You have a cause. You know what I'm saying? Like, you guys have a cause. And I would never have brought up anything that I believe because the truth is I probably believe 90% of what they believe. But they'll never know that.

Because that's what people like that do. They pick one little thing. You're not on their team. You're not on my team. And you're a horrible person and you're evil and vile and you should be, you should be eliminated. What the fuck are you talking about? Sounds like the Nazis. Right.

Like, what are you? Are you insane? Like, that's insane. Mm-hmm. But that's just what happens. They want you to just go, you want you to just go away and die. We don't even have the guts to shoot you. you. We just want you to go away and starve to death and die.

Like he's like, wow. Like you don't, basically, I want to make sure that you can't make an income. I want to take away your platform. I don't want you to make, I don't want to help you make money. And the truth is, like, you hate me and you dislike me for no reason. So they want to cancel you. Yeah, it's absolutely canceled. They want to cancel me. What's so funny is it's like, it's like, when you go to the grocery store, do you know what the guy that owns the grocery store? Do you know what his beliefs are? When you go through the car wash or you bought the car from the guy you bought the car for, do you know what his values are?

Like how deep, no, no. You gave them money. We just decided you stumbled across, said something that upset us. And this chick is dying to be upset, by the way. She's desperate to be upset. So you upset me. You're an old white person. I hate you.

And as a result, I want to do everything I can to destroy you. Canceled. Wow. Yeah. Canceled. The entertainment. you. It seems like this sort of way of thinking permeates with people that got bachelor's degree, bachelor arts degrees or like arts degrees in college. Master. I have a degree in fine arts. I love

everybody. I know, but you're an outlier. It seems like more young people who have like college degree spent a lot of time in college and then went and used that and used that to get some job, like some some job at like, for example, a production company or an advertising agency. And agency. Those people who are a part of some big company because of they got this degree, it seems like they're the ones. I don't know if that. I just know that they, I think that a lot of these people are artistic and they, they tend to go into, you know, media type, you know, industries. And then so that kind of their, that belief system kind of permeates through their work. Well, there's also, this belief system permeates through colleges too and professors and colleges.

Yeah, right. No, I mean, I, universities. Like, um, well, What is his name? Jordan Peterson. You know, he says the same thing that the universities are like a breeding ground for, you know, the whole woke kind of liberal, you know, movements and stuff. And here's the thing about that. It's like a mind virus. That's a scary way to say. You know what bother, what the thing about that is that it's funny because like those types of people, like,

society in a very in a very real way society needs people like that does that make sense like not so much that they destroy everyone else right but you need somebody to feed homeless people you know what sure like you need you need someone to stand up for you know the downtrodden you know what I mean like you need somebody to do that yeah so I get it like there needs to be there needs to be people that are advocates yeah you know but I don't think these people are advocates yeah you know but I don't think these people are advocates. Because these people didn't look into anything. They took one thing, turned me into a monster, and then patted, broke their arm, practically broke their arms, trying to pat themselves on the bat back because they thought, oh, we did a good thing. Really?

Did you? I don't think you did. But, you know, but that's the thing is like, like, I get it. Like, you do need, you do need people that, that, that are trying to kind of push the envelope, but not so much that you end up crushing everybody else. The people that are like that are the people that don't have any real problems. And that's what I would say when you said, I was trying to say when you said, why do you think that is? Because I don't think,

I don't think in general, like they've ever really truly faced anything devastating. Right. You know? Like if they'd ever, you know, like gone through cancer. Right. You know, survive something. Or, you know, maybe they came from war-torn, you know,

Ukraine or something. Yeah, grew up in the Soviet Union. Right. They really had seen poverty and they'd really say, then maybe they would say, hey, that puts things in perspective. Not that what they're saying isn't important, but you know what? It's not so important that I need to destroy everybody who disagrees. Right. It's like when things become so good, we look for problems. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You can't, yeah. If it's too perfect, then, yeah, you just create, yeah, you create your own problems. So. That's a problem with Hollywood, man. Hollywood's, that's why Hollywood's going down the gutter. Yeah. And the independent people like you are on the rise. I mean, I hope so. I'm working on something. You're working on something new now?

No, you know what I'm working on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What happened with Packhouse? Packhouse was great. It was a fantastic podcast. I went in the, Rividing.

I went in the comment section. Oh, did you? Yeah. I was just reading through. That's funny, isn't it? People that just watch YouTube video, they don't even watch it. They just go to the YouTube video and they immediately go to the comments. Yeah.

I've done that too. I don't typically do that, but it was Packhouse. So I went through and looked and was looking at all the things that, you know, guys were like, you bro, you didn't make any money all that time. And he was like, no, man, I didn't, you know, he was, and he was answering. He was in the comment section answering. So he was doing a great job. He was like hammering away.

Yeah. He's not afraid of the trolls either. There's a lot of trolls in there. They're like, how does Danny Gil these fucking guests? And there's some guy in two years. There's one guy in there who goes, it's just Matt Cox. Matt Cox gets him all these guests. Oh, yeah.

You screenshot of that. That was funny. It's true. I get all my guests from Matt Cox. All of them. He's the most well-connected man in media. Oh. Who did you,

who did you give me to? What did you think about? Rute. Ryan Rood. Ryan Rood. What do you think about him? I thought he was, I thought he was good.

I think, you know, I think the problem is he has a better story than he's a great story. Then he tells. You know what I'm like? Well, he just started telling it. So he's not. Exactly.

Like he, like off camera when I asked him about like, you know, like I go, so what kind of money were you making? And he really started telling me about the kind of money he was making and how it was coming in and how like he didn't say any of that in my podcast. Yeah. And I was thinking, well, damn, bro, like you should have played that up.

You should have said all that. Everything you should. And go, he did, you know, like I have a second channel called Inside the Darkness. So in that one, he did a better job. Maybe it's because I wasn't there to fuck up his rhythm or something. And we'd also had that conversation. So I said, listen, when you sit down and do that, say, mention the. money. Talk about the money. I said at least bring that up. Like other than like the way people

heard it. People heard it was I was poor, broke, wasn't doing anything. Then I started doing this and money started coming in. He never talks about money again. In the second one, he talks about I bought this. I was living in his condo. I was doing this. I was dating this chick. I had this. I had this. I had the money. And here's how I was doing. Like he really talks it up. That's a great one. Like that was a good one. Yeah. He's a very measured guy when he talks. talks. He was uncomfortable too. Yeah, for sure. He was definitely, you know, it's funny as the second one.

So on that channel, so I have a second YouTube channel called Inside the Darkness that I just started. You know, it's funny about him, because, you know, I leave the room. Oh, no, I did not. So, like on a soft white underbelly, you know, Mark stays there and asks question. I've already interviewed you. I just interviewed you downstairs, right? And I have another room that's all blacked out.

I put them on a chair and just say, tell the same story. And I go, I'm going to turn on the cameras. I'm going to leave. Yeah. And they're like, oh, you're not going to be here? I'm like, no, we just went over it. And what happens is I've had guys tell their story where I talk to them downstairs, no big deal. They told a story.

It was good. Went for about an hour. And then they go upstairs. Two hours later, they go upstairs. And when they walk out of the room, they're in tears crying. No. Like, yeah. Man, I got a little.

Confession. I got a little emotional. And I'm like, what happens? He's like, I don't know, man, I started talking about this. And I'm like, holy, like, they get up there by themselves. Let loose. You know, the cameras are here. Yeah, yeah.

Like, I don't get it. You know the cameras. Like, to them, he's like, I know, but nobody was there. And I'm like, yeah, but the cameras are there. Yeah, yeah. You know, Dan Y, the same guy, Dan Wise, he, he, when he started talking about his, his girlfriend, what he put her through because of his charges and he, she got charged, he was bawling in tears talking about it. Damn.

That's interesting. Ryan actually stopped. At several points he stopped and he went and this wasn't once and I don't mean like he stopped for like 10 seconds we're talking about like a minute or two went by and he was like and he goes

He goes Okay so at this point And he just started right like he was having a conversation Where he was trying to work out Yeah he was like okay Yeah okay so yeah No no it was definitely a this So by late 2000 such and such

And then he starts talking again And I was like And I was like, that's, that's interesting. What is that? I don't know. Then he did it again, like 10 minutes, 20 minutes later. Because he went for like over and like an hour and a half or something like that. Suddenly another point he went, wait a minute, and started having a conversation with himself.

Yeah, he's a- And then he started talking again. He's super smart, man. He's like a legitimate biochemist. And he's supposedly like one of like the most renowned steroid dealers, like legitimately. too. Yeah, it was, and it's fascinating how the whole steroid community is like more medically versed. They know more about like the biology of the human body with the hormones and all the balances of everything than like even a generic, uh, practitioner would. Yeah, it's when you talk to him, like he's like, he kind of hymns and haws about a bunch of stuff. And the moment

you start asking him about steroids or anything about the body, boom, he immediately, he's obsessed with it. Yeah. It's like, wow. It's like Bozac will be like ranting and raving and talking crazy. And then you say, hey, what's a CVV? Okay, so when you get the hicc a card, and he immediately goes into the strip on the back, and he'll start explaining it, and you're like, it's like, you know it inside now. Yeah, all of it.

I was talking to him on the phone because I showed him my blood work because I got my blood work done and I showed it to him. Right. I was interested in like what are like my testosterone levels versus like all my other, you know, all these biomarkers that I don't even know what the fuck they mean. I'm like, what do you think about this? And he was fucking talking to me for like an hour. Well, this means this. Your blood, you're blah, blah, blah. Like, like rattling off all these different medical terms I'd never heard of.

I can't even explain it. The terms. He goes, because of this biomarker being elevated to this level, you probably feel like this, this, this and this during these times of the day. You probably sleep this. I'm like, wow, you're fucking nailing it. That's crazy. It is really crazy, man. Have you ever tried testosterone or steroids?

Yeah. Are you on it now? Bro, I gave like 10 fucking pounds. When did you start doing it? When I mean, I was Dr. Ryan. Oh, since Ryan? Yes. Oh, okay.

Bro, I was like, I'm tired. I'm this. I'm not making gains. I'm this. I'm that. You know, and he was like, you know, all right, go to your doctor. Get the blood work. Do this.

Oh, you did. Okay. You got the Ryan root treatment. Yeah, he's, he's got a legitimate deal going. He's got a legitimate little, what's it called a TRT clinic? Yeah. Yeah. He's something else.

So when did you start doing it? like a month or so ago. So immediately after you had the podcast, did the podcast with him. Yeah. Immediately after you went and got your blood work done the next day. The blood work done. What was your testosterone level when you got a blood work done?

It was like below a thousand something. And now it's... Just below a thousand? Well, I mean like, I don't know, like 800 or something like that. Okay. You know, he was... Eh, but I wasn't making gains. You know what I'm saying?

Like I'm working out. Like in a gym, you mean? Like physically. Yeah. And I'm, um, I'm tired and I'm, you know what I'm saying? Like it's, you know, I'm 53 years old. Right.

You're at the perfect time to start doing it. And I work out and like I stay sore all the time, which is great, but it's not great. You're always sore. Right. I'm not, you know, I'm not coming back fast enough. I'm not. But, yeah, I was going to say, did I tell you that for my birthday, Jess got me, um, Ancestry.com? No.

Have you done it? No. No. I've done 23 and me. Oh, well, it's the same thing, right? Isn't it? I don't know. Yeah, it's the same thing.

Like it tells you where you're from and everything. Is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what are you. That's what 23 of me does. Yeah, I'm like 70% Scandinavian, like, uh, um, Norwegian. So I'm 100% Scandinavian. Really?

And here's what's messed up about that. My whole life, I've been told. that I had, you know, a Native American Indian in me. Like, I'm, I'm brown. Like, I never get, like, I look, you look part Mexican. In your, in your, in your mocha, your original mochaos, you look part Mexican. Yeah, back then. You're really tan.

Oh, yeah. Like, listen, if I, if I'm, if I'm staying in the sun two days, well, like an hour a day for two days, dark. Brown. Three days. Listen, a month, brown like you can't believe so, so dark. But, so I've always been, and my father looks like, he looked like a chief. He looked like he should have feathers on his head.

Wow. Everybody. And he was like, yeah, he's like, I'm Native American Indian. You got pictures of your dad in your phone? I do. I do somewhere. So he's scared to Davey. Send me a picture of your dad. I want to put it on TV. Listen, bro. Let me tell you something. 100%? Yeah. So here's the problem. What's going on? Like I've been told my whole life. You're supposed to be fair skin. No, but my father is with the Indian. Like, what's mom? He's thinking is your real dad? No, he's not.

I'm sure he's my... Listen, everything else about us. Like, we have the same ears, the same hands, the same... Everything about us. You know, same... No, he's a little bit taller to me. We're both... We're both assholes.

Like, we both have the same personality. Like, I don't doubt that for a second. What I doubt is, if... Why is he so dark? Yeah. Why am I so dark? Why? You know, and if you look at it, like, it's everything.

It's not... Maybe there's dark people in Scandinavia. There actually are. So, Jess looked it up. And here's the thing. Norwegian... Norwegians eat so. much salmon. There's some

chemical in the salmon, so they tend to get dark. I don't know what it is. Iodine. Seafood. Yeah, but they... Just iodine and seafood, bro. What the fuck? There is. Is there? Yeah. Not salmon. Salmon is like, they got like the good oils in there.

Like the B. There's something in there. What do they call the B-12s? Omega. Omega. Omega Oils. Omega brain. There's definitely iodine and seafood, bro. Omega threes. The creole oil Okay, so back to the testosterone So what was it like

How much? You're juicing up Bro, I've gained How much? Okay, so what, what? Really, it's like 15 pounds, really. Ooh. Yeah.

Really? In a month? I almost weigh 180 pounds And I'm barely, I'm like, well, I am. Take your shirt off. Now I'm hungry. I'm not taking my shirt off.

Take your shirt off. Now I'm hungry all the time. I want to see how jacked you are. Take your shirt up. I'm not going to take it. I'm not jacked. At least flex. Give us a flex like this.

Like Hulk. What's the whole Kogan place? What do you do? You do it? He's pretty big, actually. He's getting here. I don't even, I haven't worked out in like two weeks. Oh, yeah.

He's jacked. Look at the camera and do it. Yeah, look at those pythons. Are you here? Those are pythons? So, wait, am I going to get, am I, this is the, is this the, um, the thumbnail? Yeah. All right, cool.

All right. Nuts. So, okay, all right. So, okay, all right. So you got your blood work done. He evaluated your blood work. What is he giving you? What exactly are you doing? Um,

I mean, I, bro, I can't even, I don't even know the, how many milligrams a week? What are you doing? Can we talk about something else?

Why? I mean, I don't, I don't, because. Are you uncomfortable? What? I don't know.

I mean, I'm not sure. You didn't tell you how many milligrams? No, he did, but I don't even, I didn't even pay attention. Like,

I mean, I know I'm taking like a, a cc, or no, half a cc of something. or twice a week or once a week twice a week twice a week and what how soon did you feel a difference and what did you feel i i mean i i honestly felt just stronger and i i i recuperating quicker the problem is i'm hungry all the time that's what i heard yeah like now i'm hungry like

it used to be it was like i was like 165 pounds just on average and then if i as much as i do that's how much i weigh too i'm probably weigh 180 now yeah like i i'm i'm probably weigh 180 now like i I'm like 175. Yeah, I'm 177, 178. Like if I have a, yeah, it's, it's, you know, and that's bad because I don't want to be 180. I want to be 165, 170. So I feel better that.

What about energy levels? Explain that. I feel, I feel like I have more energy. I feel like I'm recuperating faster. I feel stronger. And when I work out, like I want to work out. Usually when I'm working, as I'm working out, I'm like, I just want to go home. Yeah.

Like I ache. I hurt. It sucks. It does suck. You know, like I'm working out and it's a struggle. Yeah, yeah. It's just not a struggle to get through anything now. Have your balls shrinked?

You know, I don't know. I haven't measured my nuts in a long time. You haven't noticed anything? No. You haven't noticed the shrinkage? No. Same. Everyone I talked to says their nuts get super small after that.

No idea. What about hair loss? It's supposed to be, there's some sort of like gene. I can't afford them. Yeah, bro. Like that. Come on, man. Are you worried about that before you tried it?

No, because my stuff is surgically. Oh, yeah, you're right. Stuck in that. He's got surgical procedures. Interesting. So Matt Cox is on the juice I need some juice I know I need to get some

Well I'm afraid to do it You know he told me he's like You should get into it man It's pretty cool and I'm like He's like you'll feel better You'll sleep better You'll have more energy And I'm like yeah it sounds great

I would definitely do it But it shuts off your natural production That's what I'm worried about Right but and I mean at my age That's a problem At your age you don't give a fuck About your natural production You can just stay on it

You're in your 50s I'm in my 30s I mean yeah But it would come back in your 30s In mine it might just shut off completely Like I'm not even... Like if I stopped, right? But the thing is like, I don't...

What if I'm out of town? If I'm traveling, I'm not going to have my syringes, be able to shoot up twice. Here's the thing. It's not like a drug like your... It's not like your... Withdrawals? Yeah, I mean, it's not like you're taking heroin

and you're gonna have, like, you wouldn't even notice. Yeah, you wouldn't even notice that you... Yeah, you would. You would. He says that you did. Because he was, when he was on it before he went to prison. Oh, well, I'm sure he was... God knows what he was taking.

He said depression. He goes, your libido drops. nothing. You don't need a libido in prison. It's probably better off than that habit. No doubt. True. He goes, he goes, you just, you're welcome.

Yeah. He said he felt like dog shit, like, like true dog shit after he went to prison and he couldn't have it anymore. Is it hot in here? It's always hot in here. We have a fucked up AC system. We have the most fucked AC system in the world. I mean, you guys aren't sweating.

No, I have to invest a lot of my. It's the juice. I'm drinking a whole thing of coffee. He's raging. What is going on? I need the liquid. Get some water in you, man. Ooh, liquid death.

Get some salts in your system Soak up someone that's wet I'm interested to see how this works out for you In the next couple months and how you start feeling How much is this cost You interested Well I mean I gotta try it before I buy it Apparently it makes you like truly a fucking superhuman

It improves every aspect of your life Do I look superhuman? It's not about how you look I mean it is about how you look But it's also about it's mostly about how you feel Are you feeling superhuman? No, I don't. And Jess is still stronger than me.

How's your libido? Maybe you need a heavier dose. How's your libido? Improvement or no? There's an extreme improvement. Extreme improvement. This is what I've heard unequivocally from everyone I've talked to. What's libido?

So, you know, your desire to have sex. Oh, your horiness. You know, like. He needs the opposite of that because he's got no one to have sex with except his hands. Well, I mean, you know, as you get, especially as you get older, like, you know, so you're like, yeah, you're like, you know, if I had sex twice a week, like, I'm good, you know, but that's not how it is now. No. No. Like now it's like every now if, if Jesus Christ, Matt, leave me alone. If Jess rubs up against me, I'm like, hey, are you sleepy? She's like, what are you doing?

She's like, what do you mean? Am I sleepy? What do you want to do? I'm like, I mean, I'm just saying. She's like, oh my God. She's like, what's going on? Like, I'm just saying, you rub up, you did rub up against me. She's like, I'm rolling over. I mean, what was I going to do? So now she sleeps as far away from me as she can. No. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm interested.

I'm interested in giving it a shot. I'm just worried that I'm too young. I don't want to fucking, I don't, first of all, my nust to shrink. Well, they'll come back. It first of all, is that? Who cares? Like, I've never once, like, is that something like that's, is that important?

You got some big balls. Has anybody ever said that to you? It'll make my dick look bigger, though. It'll make your dick look bigger. Your balls get smaller. What is going on with you? What do you mean? It's not true.

I don't know, but what is it? First of all, you're married. She's locked in. Yeah. Yeah. Still, it's the thing you think about. No, I don't think about, you know, I'm concerned about, you know, what's wrong, baby? We're more concerned about the hairline.

Hey, you want to know. What are you thinking about? I wonder about the size of my nuts. While we're, I feel they're a good size. I've never had that conversation. Hey, while we're on the subject, I want to share with you a life hack that I've just recently discovered. Okay. this might be, I'm sure there's people out here who do this and know about this.

I've never even thought about it until my brother just told me about it a couple weeks ago and I started doing it. When you wake up in the middle of the night, you have to piss really bad, right? I mean, sometimes. Right. Or early in the morning. Sometimes I wake up before I want to wake up and I have to piss. When I piss early in the morning, like I wake up five or six, I got to piss. I piss for like two minutes straight.

It's healthy. When I'm that. tired when how bad you have a huge fucking bladder yeah so I just started sitting down when I piss fucking a hundred percent better than standing up when you're pissing and you're tired

you wake up in the morning life hack bro it is so what is that it is just so comfortable it is so much better it is more comfortable you don't have to worry about pissing on the seat you can and you're are these issues I don't ever worry about piss on this give it a shot I do I piss all over

the seat sometimes when I'm really tired. You can sit there, just fucking let it hang in the toilet. And you can just go like this. Sit there and just let it go. Read a book. You don't have to think. You don't have to worry about aiming, nothing. Sitting down while you're pissing.

It bothers me that you think that this is a big thing. It is a big thing for me. It's really improved the quality of my life. Whoa. Going on. I'm serious, man. Give it a shot. Listen, typically I'm sitting down anyway because I walk in with my phone and I look at

TikToks. Oh, so you sit down and pee already? Yeah. Okay. You know who taught me that? Who? In prison, Puerto Ricans, they all sit down when they pee. Oh, really?

Plus, when you go in there, you typically sit down and pee anyway because you don't want to piss in the toilet and get little sprinkles all over the place because then you have to wipe the whole thing up because he doesn't. So every time you go to the bathroom, you have to wipe down, wipe this, wipe that. So what happens is the guys are like, look, you just have to sit down. Like, because other words, you're hitting the side and you might hit the thing. Like, you'll look, just sit down and piss. Right. And so you end up having to sit down. I don't want to say that because, you know.

And that's the other thing. Another huge benefit is my wife can hear me pissing from the bedroom. So if she's sleeping and you hear the, you no longer hear that. You can't get the side of the bowl? Bro, you want me to do all that when it's pitch black. How tired are you? I'm not even fucking awake yet.

I'm not even awake, first of all. Second of all, it's dark. You're right. Then sit down. For you, this is a big deal. I mean, like to me, there would be light night lights involved. there's a nightlight, there's, I'm hitting a side. Well, you're just trying to present an argument to something I'm thinking that I'm just trying

to explain to you. I've discovered that has made my life dramatic. It bothers me that this is, that this is made your life. I've been, I've been meaning to talk about this on the podcast because it's really, it's really improved my life. It really has. It's like one little, like, piece of my life that I would never even think about talking about. But it's, I thought I was thinking about it, like, wow, this is fucking great.

It's amazing. But you've been doing it. I didn't know you've been doing it. Yeah, well, it's just, you know, he never heard the guys like, Oh, that fucking dude sits, uh, pisses sitting down. You know,

that's like a, that was when I was growing up. Yeah, it was a feminine thing. So I don't want to say that. But, but yeah, the Puerto Ricans do it.

But the truth is, is everybody ends up doing it in prison anyway because, you know, it's disrespectful. You get little splashes everywhere. You have to clean it up. You have to,

you know. Right. You don't want to do it when you're at the football game in the stadium. But I mean, when you're at home, it's definitely nice. Yeah, you don't want to do it in a porta potty.

No, you don't want to do it in a fucking port-a-potty. Four in the morning and not doing out of the job site, bud. Hell no. Oh, my God, what? A lot of times I wake up in the middle of night, I just go outside and pee in the backyard. What? Yeah. You go all the way outside.

Well, I guess how it's just sliding glass doors right there. I mean, it just pop outside pee on the tree. You guys are animals. What are you doing? That's funny. Oh, my God. I let the dog out. We fucking share a moment.

We smoke a sig. We pee on the chain tree. There's this funny video. Josh sent me there today. I got to send this to you, Austin, so you could pull it up. Oh,

I sent you a picture of Matt Cox's dad. Can you pull that up? Oh, yeah, was Matt Cox's, Scandinavian in the middle? In the middle? Look how brown hands.

He looks Italian, for sure. Guy in the left's definitely Irish. Is that your mom in the right? Uh-huh. Is it? I actually have one that's wider, but it doesn't matter.

It's fine. It's just funny. I can't believe you're on the fucking juice, bro. I can't believe I don't know why you're embarrassed to talk about it I'm 53 years old you know I'm 53 That's what 53 year olds are supposed to do

I mean I understand First of you know what's funny is like I just started doing it So and my problem is I've gained I've gained almost 15 pounds I've really gained about 15 pounds Like it depends probably over 50 over 10 10 12 pounds I've gained and and it's a problem Like I eating too much right?

meeting too much and I'm desperately trying not to. Are you getting fat? I mean, I feel like I am. Jess says I'm not. She's like, no, you just look thick like you're strong. Like when we work out, like you look good. Like she, she likes it, but she doesn't like me thin. Muscle gains. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, you can't, first of all, you can't gain in, in a month and a half, you, well, maybe it's been two months. In a month and a half to two months, you can't gain 10, 15 pounds of muscle. So it hasn't been 15 pounds of muscle. But I'm definitely like, Everything is lighter. Yeah.

It's crazy. It's crazy. It's really not. Like, and then when I do dips, like, you know, I mean, I'm just, I'm smashing out, you know, 30 dips, 40 dips in a row. I'm, I'm, I'm, do 50, 60 pushups. I'll, you know, it's like, and it's killing it. Right. It's not.

And the Batman mask? No, I, that should bring it. What about cardio? How's cardio? I mean, I'm horrible at cardio. Is it, is it harder? Is it easier? No.

No. Since COVID? Since I had COVID? No, since steroids. No, since testosterone. I'm just saying prior to me having COVID, I was doing 30 minutes a day.

Okay. And just on the elliptical, right? Like I've done maybe one time since COVID. I've been able to do 30 minutes. Like my lungs, I don't know what happened, but so I do 15, maybe 15 minutes and I'm dying,

maybe 20 and I'm dying. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. So, you know, so it, what is the, so I don't know. I don't know Most importantly

How's your golf swing? I don't know I don't know I don't have to play golf Tiny I don't have to buy For that No I can't

And I can't run I run like a tank Like it's You don't have to run playing golf I know But I mean Like there's certain things Like my body size

Like you know I can't do You know I'm a half a midget bro I'm tiny I'm tiny And the worst thing

Is now we're watching Jess and I are watching The Game of Thrones Are you watching Oh the dragons One House of Dragons I

I don't know. The one that's on HBO now, the new series? No, no, no, this is the old one. You're watching the original game. Right, because to me, the old one is the new one. Like, I never saw that. It's the one with the little guy, the little... Yeah, yeah, Tyrion.

Yeah, Tieran, yeah. Like, you know, every time something happens and he does something, like, Jess keeps glancing at. Clientziting out. So makes me so mad. He is the best character in show. If he wasn't in it, I don't watch that show at all. He's the fucking best, bro.

He is the best. Yeah. He reminds me of you, actually. Here it comes, here it comes. His intellect and his wit, his dagger tongue, I mean, it's just like you, bro. He's the fucking greatest, he's the greatest character. He really is the greatest character. Tiny little guy.

We got to get him to play you in a biopic. So listen, all these guys were telling me, like, all these guys were like, oh, you got to do the, you know, he should be the Duceke's guy. So I came up with, I wrote 20. of these with a guy that a friend of mine and I did five of them five video I've did five little videos I'm gonna do the other 15 because it's for my Patreon and I plug them in my in my podcast and then guys in the comments are like bro this is hilarious like I can't believe it but they're funny I thought they were funny yeah they were super funny me and Danny were actually we were laughing

about them the mac con Matt Cox is a little little bits he does I don't normally commit fraud but when I I haven't seen those. They were in the group chat with them. Are you joking? You commented on them. Like, yeah. Me and you were talking about. You gave me like a thumbs up for this fucking guy.

You can't send him shit. No, I know. You'd have to show him to me again. I send him shit all the time. He didn't watch nothing. Oh, so this is. With a fake ID and his charm. He is the most interesting man in the world.

I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. I never say. What? Stay greedy of my friends. I promise you to join Matthew Cox's Patreon. What a prick.

What a prick. Listen, it's great though. I love it. It's another link you probably got. Maybe go to playlist maybe. Or they're there there on.

Yeah, yeah. Here, hand that thing over here, bro. It's community, community puff. Yeah, that's one, the second one. Law enforcement often questions him. Not because he's suspected

of a crime, but because they find him fascinating. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.

Support the channel. Stay greedy. My buddy came up with that. That's great. That's like five of them. I love that. I need to do the other ones. They're all hilarious. The plastic surgery one,

I got one where I do, what was it? Oh, wait, go to the one. it says plastic surgery, the very end. That one, yeah. Yeah. He once con Bank of America out of $250,000. That's not it.

Hey, you stopped it. No, that's not it. He once got plastic surgery because he didn't like the photo on his wanted poster. His legend precedes him. The way indictments precede arrests. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.

Support the channel. I love that. That's good. That's good. I love that. That's good. Stay greedy, my friends. So funny.

That's good. But yeah, the guy's voice is good too. The guy's great, right? Yeah, he sounds just like that guy. He does. He does. And I found music like, I was trying to get different kinds of music for the same thing,

but I think the music I found is really, it's as close as I can get. Yeah. You just can't find the perfect stuff. So, well, before this, you were talking about, you looked in the comments of the Pac-O's podcast. Oh, yeah, yeah, where they were just like, you know, bro, I can't believe you didn't, you know, you only made, you know, you didn't make any money. He said he made 50, 60K maybe total. Really? Because in the article, it said he made like $7,000 total.

Oh, really? I remember that in the book or in another, another interview I saw with him. He said that too off a propane deal, something propane or something? Right, right. And then another guy had said to them, they mentioned, they said, bro, I can't believe you can never, you can't, you can't you get back into it? And he said, and he said, he definitely could. Yeah, he said, he goes, well, I don't really know I haven't looked into it. I'm not interested or something like that. I haven't really looked into it. But the truth that, but DeBeroli told me that they were restricted from doing business with the federal government for three years. even though it was for fraud defrauding the federal government

is only three years. So here's my thing about that. Devaroli was restricted from doing business with the federal federal government for three years. The Swiss guy, Heinrich. Heinrich, yeah. He was in the same boat. But they knew.

They knew Heinrich Tomé was just providing these guys as a middleman, all this ammunition to sell to them. So the federal government obviously doesn't give a fuck. No, they don't. Look, they need, honestly, I'm surprised that that, that they even went after these guys, to be honest. Like, they were actually.

It was that one guy. That one, freaking. Yeah, it was that one guy. But they actually went after. I mean, I'm sorry. They actually, they were performing better than like general dynamics, you know, better. Better than these. In other companies.

Yeah. And so it's like, why would you? But they needed a fall guy. There was that New York Times article, which was bullshit. shit. Yep. But they needed a fall guy and these are the guys and let's go after them. And so we got to hammer somebody. Let's hammer these guys. That one investigator based on Tampa. I forget the department of what the name of that branch was. There wasn't DEA. It was like D.E. Oh yeah. Yeah. You mean for the defense department? It was like a, he was like a customs guy, but not a customs guy. He was based in Tampa. The guy who basically he investigated in them. The guy who went to what was the country? Albania. The guy who went to Albania. It was like the DSDC or something. Like, yeah, it was for the, for the, um, it was like they're like the, the military FBI.

So this one guy, this one prosecutor was just super fucking horny for their case and he wanted to prosecute them and wanted to advance his own career. He had his, he just had his eye set on this prize and he would stop at nothing to fucking hammer these guys. And when he went to the army and talked to them about it, like, look, these guys are doing this or using these Chinese hamilton. And the people of the army who were, they're like, they're like, Like, let him ride. They're like, there's nothing wrong with what these guys are doing. The ammo is perfect. Right.

All the ammo works. People on the ground in Iraq or in Afghanistan are testing it. There's no problems with it. And it's getting delivered on time. So why would we fucking throw a wrench into this system that's working? And this guy just for political reasons, to advance his own career, he wanted to fucking pursue it. It's just out of ambition. He was just this human nature.

He wanted to advance his own career. Debroli actually had a letter. from the U.S. military that said that they didn't have one single reporting of one round, not firing. Yeah. That's insane. But if you read the New York Times article, it makes it sound like everything they were providing was falling apart and rusting and damaged. Because they were nothing. It was bullshit.

There was one batch of ammo they got from like Slovenia or somewhere that was like way before that. Tarnished. It was only tarnished. Yeah. It didn't not work. It was just tarnished. It looked like shit. It wasn't shiny.

Right, right, right. Would it fire? Yeah. Was it? And Debroli said, you know what's funny? He said, you can actually take that ammunition because he did this before. I talked about it in the book. He had gotten stuff that had been shipped from, I think, Israel, and it had gotten

salt water damage, like it hadn't been sealed properly. And polish it up? Right. And then, you know what they polish it in? Oh, God. It was, I think it was corn or something. Oh, yeah. Like corn meat or so I forget, but they put it like cornmeal.

Cornmeal. And they put it, they put that. in with in like a dryer like a dryer that or a washer or something they they do it and they pull it out and it's all nice and shut it buff us it buffs it buffs it yeah yeah yeah i was like are you serious he goes yeah i mean listen he you know debor oly was a an ingenious guy hard working hustler you can you can't trust him for as far as you throw him i mean he was just like he's one of those fucking guys who all he thinks about is money he'll he'll never be poor he'll never be poor. That's for sure. He's one of those guys. It's funny because Boziac and I were talking about this the other day. And we were talking about it. And I mean, I think this is just in general. Like if you watch like these guys like Jordan Peterson or a lot of these guys, they'll tell you that there are some people that you could take this person and you can say, hey, I'm going to take this person. I'm going to put him over here and give them nothing. You got nothing. Okay. And three years from now, he'll be a millionaire.

You're going to take everything away from him. Taking everything from you. Okay, I'm going to put you over here in this state. I'm going to drop you off in the middle of Ohio. Okay. Three years from now, he'll be a millionaire. Do you don't need the same contacts, anything? They'll figure it out.

They'll figure it out. Then there are other people you can say, hey, here's $10 million. Three years from now, they'll be claiming bankruptcy. And there's just some of those. And then you can say, okay, you know what I'm going to do? Here's another $10 million. They might make it four years. Like there are some people that are just,

they're just hustlers and that's Devereoli. You can take everything from him and he will be a multimillioner. Now granted, in Devoroli's case, he'll destroy everyone that comes across. He'll rip every single person off

that comes across his path to do it, but he will do it. He'll do it. Yeah. It's interesting, man. Just the way his fucking mind works. So fucking interesting. You know, it's funny too.

It's such a, like a rare, it's a rare thing too. I would have loved to have been here when Packhouse was here. I wish you would have been here when Packhouse was here. I wish I could have, but that guy flew in from Vegas. Yeah. Fuck, that would have been good, man.

But he literally, it was, yeah, Deverely was just, it was, you know, you start to realize like it's, you know, spend enough time with him. You start to realize like, like, you're sick. Like, you've got a real problem. And I'm, you know, super nice to the guy and super, you know, understanding. And I was very impressed with him. It was just very impressive guy and the way his mind worked and everything, with the exception. fact that that he literally didn't

he, he, it disgusted, if he made 200,000 on a deal and you made 100,000, he was disgusted that he had to give you 100, even if you brought him the deal. Like, you could cut him in on the deal. Yeah. He gets 200. Yeah. And he'd be disgusted that you were going to make 100,000. Because in his mind,

that was 100,000, he should get that 100,000. It's like, I know, I know a couple people that are just like that. Oh, I know about, I know a handful of guys who are just Fuck. That's scary. I don't know. The way you're saying it scares me.

Like it's just funny because it's like identical mindsets. And it's when you can connect to people that have the same exact mindset and way of thinking. It's, it's funny when you can do that. I was going to say that he. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a rare thing. How do they get like that?

Is it nature? I mean, the thing is, is like if you take Devereoli, like I met his brother. Like I think I met his brother. Yeah. That's what Paco said. He said none of his brothers. He said none of his siblings are like that. No, none of them.

None of them. His sister is super, you know, like protective of him. But she seemed like a nice person. Like I emailed her all the time. Like she was doing looking stuff up for me, pulling stuff, you know, all, everything for, for his case. Very nice person, you know. His brothers were humble and nice and polite. He was just vastly different, vastly different.

See, he was the oldest, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And I wonder, it's like, like, yeah, I would have loved to have talked to Packhouse about him. Like, you know, it was, it was super weird, like, some of the things he would do and say. And it was just like, you know, it was funny. He could be really funny. But it just, you know, in the manipulation, like, it's blatant.

Like, it's different if you're subtly manipulative and maybe you might figure out, hey, this guy's kind of manipulative over time. With him, you very quickly could see him. From the start. From the very start, he would, and he'd do those kinds of things where he'd say stuff like, you know, to try and get you to do something like, yeah, bro, you ought to do this for me. You know, bro, I'm telling you, you're going to make a ton of money. A ton of money.

Like, you don't want to make money? You don't like money. What's wrong with you? I'm trying to help you, bro. I'm trying to help you. I can't help you. I can't. And it's like, Jesus.

Like, calm down. Calm down. High pressure. Pushy, pushy, pushy, pushy, pushy, pushy, and then the moment everything starts to fall, you know, next thing, you know, and then as things start starting to happen, it's like, okay, so we're going to have everything, we're going to have everything put in my bank account. And it's like, you know, and then you're like, yeah, bro, why don't, I don't understand. They'll, they can cut you a check and cut me a check.

Bro, listen, you don't know what you think about this, okay? This is taxes. Okay, this is the way my accountant wants it, okay? I'm cutting you in on this. I'm cutting you. You don't want a part of it. You don't want a part of it. It's like, Jesus.

Like, what? You know, but you realize. So overbearing. After, oh, extremely. After he fucks you over. you realize, oh wow, bro. Like you got me to do all these things. You never paid me.

You had all the money deposited in your account. And then you didn't pay me. You just stopped talking to me. And every time I said, hey, man, you owe me money. Fuck you. Get a lawyer. And it was like blatant. It's like, why you're not even pretending to come up with a reason why you're not paying me.

You're saying go fuck yourself. You live in a building where I can't get in. He's scared all the time, worried someone. He's going to, someday, somebody will kill him. You think? Oh, I mean, I, you know, what helps me sleep at night is thinking at some point it will catch up with him. But the truth is he'll probably go his entire life. He's a cockroach.

He's a survivor. Right. But the nice thing, what I do know is this, after spending enough time with him, what I do know is this, he's a deeply, deeply unhappy person. Really? Extremely unhappy. Listen, you tell me, this guy is drugs on drugs all the time And doesn't even like hide it Like he'll tell you like I'm on either Coke

I'm smoking pot to sleep I'm taking Coke when I get up I'm drinking this like I mean rounds couple lungs You know what it's weird It's like also in the book they're explaining like As soon as he wakes up and starts looking on the computer Like he wakes up he's on his computer looking for money Looking for deals right

but he's also ripping the fucking bong at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, I don't thought that. He's taking the edge off. He's, he's, it's insane. I mean, it's doing anything. The drugs are keeping him up. And look, he's so funny.

Like when he read my book. Bro, look coaster. He read, he read my book. And he was like, yo, bro. He goes, this is the best thing I've ever read. I've ever read. And I went, this is when I was writing his outline in prison. And he goes, this is the best thing I've ever read ever.

And he goes, I want you to write my book. I was like, bro, you can get like a professional. He's like, you're a professional. This is the best thing I've ever read. And I was like, and so he was trying to convince me that I later found out like he read like five books his whole life or something. And I was like, hey, bro, you told me this is the best thing you'd ever read. The best. And he's like, and he's like, it is.

It's amazing. It's amazing. And I was like, yeah, but you just told me that you've only read three or four books your whole life. And he's like, he's like, well, I mean, I, I leave you like magazine sometimes, but mostly what I read is contracts. And it's like, so you're comparing me to government contract? Like that's not a fair, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't feel good about myself at all now. But at that time, he was trying to manipulate me into a position where I would write his story.

Yeah. So that he could ultimately rip me off and leave me in prison, which is what he did. He's good at what he does. He's great. But why do you think he's so deeply unhappy? He's scamming people. Well, I mean, I think you can scam people and still be happy. For sure.

Yeah, but there's always that thought back there. where you're doing, you're doing dirt. And fucking people were out for you. And that's what I think. He's so overly blatant about it that deep down you, you know you're fucking people over. You know what you're doing is wrong. But he values, he clearly, and he's not ashamed of it,

that he values money over everything. Absolutely. But what's propping up that value? Why does he value money over it? He's just a deeply unhappy person. He's super insecure. I mean. Why is he insecure?

I don't know. I mean, he was taught, he talked about, like, So they grew up in kind of the shadows of like a very of a wealthy area, but they didn't have money. His billion. His uncle's a billionaire, apparently. Or grandfather's a billionaire. Backhouse said he's got a billionaire uncle. Or not uncle, grandfather.

Which one? Like I don't know who that is. So, you know, the uncle he worked for in L.A. Yeah. At the pawn shop. Yeah. His father, billionaire. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

That's how he got that pawn shop. well it's not just Ponsor he sells guns he sells he's the one he does government contracts right he's the one who got him in kind of like

you know and Devereoli immediately started going in for the weapons right yeah you know but think about it too he's super into weapons like it's it's basically

it fills some kind of insecurity that he's got do you hear that yes the AC oh okay like it it fulfills some kind of insecurity that he has

like he can't have a long term relationship with like a woman and he can't, you know, he can't have long-term friendships. He can't, everything has to revolve around money. And the thing about him is like, he's the kind of guy that you'd go out. He'd pay for everything, you know. But, you know, if there was a deal, he'd fuck you out of it too.

He holds it over your head. Yeah, yeah. Like, he didn't mind spending money, you know, a little bit. Like it's, but think about it, if you're multi, multi-millionaire paying 80 bucks for dinner. Yeah, there's nothing. Isn't that big of a deal. And keep in mind, he's doing it. He wants you to like him.

He wants you to feel good. Eventually you get... Right. And at some point, I may need you. Yeah. Oh, so you let me fucking... So, oh, two years, I've been buying for buying dinners, getting you into places, doing this, doing that, filling your car up with gas, doing it, doing all these nice things for you. And now what I ask you for one thing.

One thing. That's the kind of friend. You're like, Jesus, calm down. Okay, bro. Yeah. I'll make the call. I'll make the call. Jesus.

Is he very... Is he physically intimidating? He has, but he's harmless. Like, it's all. Bluster. How tall is he? Oh, he's, he's five, five, eight, five nine. Oh, okay. Yeah. But he's, he's, he's, he's in good shape. Like he was last time I saw him at the strip club, he was in good shape. When was that? He was in good shape when he left, uh, left, uh, he looked fat as fuck in his mugshot. Oh, he was fat. Yeah, in the mugshot, what happened was he, he, he typically was thin. If you look at all the photos online,

um, when he was, uh, when he was doing the deal. So he was thin, normal, yeah. And then when he was placed on the ankle monitor on pre-trial release, he couldn't leave home. So he's eating. He's sitting at home. He can't do drugs. So what's he doing? He's ordering pizza. He's eating. He's eating. He can't do anything. This is a guy who's got a compulsive personality. He's still doing deals. He's still in his condo doing deals. You know, but I mean, he's doing, he's hustling nonstop. But he got real fat. So when they eventually, when they arrest him, they take that picture, he's fat. But And that's the big thing is like you had this, the one time he was fat in his life, you end up having Jonah Hill play him. Like that the whole time.

Right. But that's not how he was. Yeah. Yeah. Funny. He's probably still doing arms deals, right? He's probably still doing the film government contracts doing the same thing. He's got to be.

I'm sure he's doing something. Like, did Packhouse talk about, did Packhouse talk about him suing him? Because, you know, Pacals and Ralph were suing him. Currently? But they were. I don't know if they are. That's what I'm saying. With that at all, no.

Okay. So maybe they settled that lawsuit. Maybe. You know, he was trying to sue him saying, hey, we had a deal. Yeah. You know, we had a deal. What, you know, I worked all, I did all this work. I was, you know, worked for hours and hours. Like, I'm working my regular job as a masseuse.

And then I'm coming here and I'm working eight or ten hours a day for you. And then when all the money happened, all the money came in, you took the money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Packhouse was mainly just like he, you know, he talked about like in hindsight. He regrets just basically being so naive. to him and basically trusting

somebody who he should have done his background and being just very naive. And I was explaining to him like, dude, I'm like, you were in your 20s. Yeah, you're a kid. You did so much. You did so much and learned so much from it. Even if you didn't make that much money, it was still such a fucking important experience, you know? And you learned

I mean, just the lessons you took from it. What's Packow's doing now? At such a young age. Typically, people get fucked over in his situation. Sometimes it takes people into 40s or 50s until they get fucked over and they learn, you know, human nature like that. What's Packhouse doing now?

So now he's got these inventions. He's like inventing these business. He has this one business called, what was the toothbrush thing? Insta floss. He's got this thing called Insta floss. So you know those like water picks that people use to like floss our teeth?

He's got this water pick thing that basically, look, this is it. You put it in your mouth and it does the tops and the bottoms. You just like this. You go from one side to the other and it does tops and bottoms,

flosses in between all. your teeth with water. Oh, so it's like a stream of water shooting through, like a jet. One shot jet across all your teeth in once. It's pretty cool. Check it out. Watch it. Play the video.

It's only a minute. The flossing blows. This looks pretty cool. I feel like her teeth were that white before she flossed. Maybe. But it's possible that he, the flossing did that. So he's, yeah, look at that. How sick is that?

Yeah, I need that. Yeah, I need that too. Actually, I'm going to go buy one. I was going to say, did he bring you one? Yeah, he brought one in and showed and like demoed it. Demoed it? You got to leave one. I know, I wish you would have.

So where do you buy them? Are they like on Instaple on their website right now, pre-order. Oh, okay. So, 100 bucks. And he's got another thing, he's got another business called, um, it's a sound, it's a basically what it is. It's a beat. It's basically like a drum machine for guitarists that you operate with your foot. So like guitars when they play whatever, they play tracks to search.

songs, whatever. They have to have some sort of like, this is it right here, a beat buddy. So it's like a drum machine that you operate with your foot for musicians. It's pretty cool. I guess it's like one of the first of its kind. There's a lot of those out there. Yeah. A lot of, what's it called? A lot of these. A lot of these. Yeah. So they have all kinds of different music, like musical equipment. It's pretty cool, though. So that's his main business right there. I guess that's worldwide. And that that's pretty successful already. But his newest, newest startup is that instafloss thing. Interesting.

I don't play the guitar. He's an entrepreneur. I understand, but yeah. Yeah, bro. Like, you know, what's so funny, too, is, like, you do something like that, right? Like, you bust your ass for a year or two, put it together, get the stuff,

get a designer, get someone to manufacture it, the whole thing. And then the money starts to come in. And then, like, you struggle for years. And then the money starts to come in. And then he'll, now he's, Now it's freed up his time. Now he'll end up inventing something else and something.

Like you ever notice that? Like guys will get a little bit of money. And next thing you know that boom, they blow up. And it's like, why? Well, because now I don't have, I got money coming in to pay my bills. I can now dedicate all my time to this project. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like it's that sacrifice of years to get yourself to a point where you've got that residual income coming in. And now you can really put your time into something. That's why like, it was what? how long did it take him to come up with the first one? Now he's already got the floss thing. Exactly. Didn't he work a couple years, two, three years to get the beat buddy?

Now it's suddenly, boom, this one, now it's going to be that one and that one and that one. And you'll end up having fucking 50. And then he'll be a billionaire. I know he's been, yeah, I know he's been dealing with the whole like supply crisis, supply chain deal with China trying to get his stuff in and get a manufacturing. He was also, it was really interesting was he was talking about Ukraine. And he was like because he spent a lot of time dealing with people in Ukraine. buying ammo and buying arms.

And he was explaining, I was explaining, like, he was explaining, basically, you know, how there's, like, billions of dollars being funded into Ukraine to fight this thing. You're saying a ton of us going in their own pockets? No, no, he wasn't saying that. He wasn't saying that. But basically, he was explaining that, like, a lot of it is coming straight from the U.S. So it's a lot of our supply that we already have. So it's not like that, like, traditionally to fund wars like this, the U.S. would go to companies

like Raytheon or Boeing or Lockheed and it would take months so they would have they need stuff now they put the contract out people would bid on them but they need stuff now

so it's coming directly from our supply and because we're supplying them with stuff that we already have our reserves we're basically older stuff they're getting the debt

so now Ukraine's into debt in debt to us for all this stuff so they got yeah the Ukraine they got them now now they got to win why because they owe us money

the Ukraine thing is crazy is because like we're escalating like the most terrifying thing mankind is aware like the most terrifying threat to mankind

since World War II nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia right right and we're just escalating it and pushing it and pushing it and trying to escalate this war with the Ukraine and um there's this video I sent Austin this going Austin pull up that video I sent you

earlier. There's this, what's this guy's name again? Colbert. Colbert. Okay, Gideon, Gideon, Gideon, what is that how you say? Gideon. Gideon Rose. Play this. This is fucking crazy. So this is like, this was three years ago on the Colbert report. Have you seen this? No. Play this. This Ronald Reagan, we're still alive to fix this mess.

Here to tell me how to reanimate Reagan is the editor of Foreign Affairs magazine, Gideon Rose. I pause it real quick. Thank you so much for being here. Pause it. So basically what he is, he explains everything that's going on right now, basically, in Ukraine. But we're currently denying it all. We're just saying we need to support the people in Ukraine.

But we've been backing this fucking mad dog Putin into a corner forever, like expanding NATO. And Putin even talks about it, how there's all these rocket sites, these missile sites that are in Poland and in these other countries surrounding them, former Soviet Union countries. That could be within minutes turned into offensive launch sites to launch nukes. Right. And we're saying, no, no, no. We need to, you know, Putin's this crazy fucking psychopath who could just, you know, destroy the fucking planet with his nukes. But this guy basically explains what's going on right now between the U.S. and Ukraine and Russia. Three years ago.

This is three years ago. But they won't talk about this now. Now, Gideon, help me out here. We've got a battle. The Ukraine, some of them want to go into the EU, the European Union. And some of them want to stay with Russia. If the Ukraine's not in Europe right now, what continent is it on? Well, it's part of Eurasia, but it's part of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet bloc.

It's basically Robin to Russia's Batman. And the challenge here is to try to attract it to the West to get it to flip sides. So the rebels in the streets, what are they fighting for? They're fighting for a better future. That sounds like a political speech. No, but it's actually true. Countries have to develop over time. And Ukraine basically, after the end of the Soviet Union, faced two tracks.

It could stay a sort of stagnant, corrupt, authoritarian country tied to Russia, or it could essentially join the West. It could modernize, liberalize, become a democracy. At the last minute, when it looked like it was going to trade up from its sort of abusive relationship with its boyfriend from the hood to a nice yuppie... You're not loading these choices in any way whatsoever. It's actually true. When it looked like it was going to trade up to a better environment,

at the last minute, Putin offered a bribe. How much? 15 billion. That's a lot of cash, man. It's a lot of cash. And the president, who himself was tied to the old elites and the eastern part of the country who ties to Russia, decided to back off the change

and go join Russia. Do you know how many pirate-themed restaurants you can buy with $15 billion? The problem was the western parts of the country and the younger parts of the country and the more modern liberal parts of the country basically knew that they had no future being Russia's vassal.

And so they took to the streets. Is America taking sides in this in any way? If these people, the rebels are winning right now, right? I think what he's referring to right now is there was a coup in the Ukraine in 2016. It wasn't the, was it the, when they invaded Crimea? Is that this point now? This is not Crimea. No, I think this is, this is in 2016, I believe.

There was a coup in the Ukraine, basically where the president of the Ukraine was elected and he decided to like do some sort of trade deal with Russia and like stay. I'm fucking not saying this. the right way, but stay friendly to Russia. Right, right. And there was this uprising in the Ukraine where all these people basically put, like took over the capital. It was basically all the cops in the Ukraine versus all the people in the Ukraine. Fighting tons of people

died. Tons of people got arrested. There were snipers shooting civilians and cops. And there's a whole documentary about it called Ukraine on fire. And the CIA was allegedly involved involved in

in pushing and in supporting this coup. So the U.S. instigated this whole thing because they didn't want a president in the Ukraine that was friendly with Putin. Right. Right. So, okay, go ahead and keep playing the video. Yes, just recently.

Why isn't Obama spiking the ball in the end zone and calling Putin and saying, hey, you might have won the medal count, but we won the country count, Bia. It's actually a very good question. And the answer is that we don't want Russia to intervene and kick over the time. table like a game of risk and take Ukraine back.

Would they do that? Could he send in troops? Yes, he could. So we are choosing... Does Ukraine have any troops of their own? Would they fight back? Yes, but we don't want this to escalate and we don't want Russia to crack down. So we want to basically distract Russia. Oh, look, you have the highest metal counts. Oh, you did really well. And focus on the Olympics. There's a shiny object. We'll just take an entire country away from you. Basically... Now, there's a power vacuum right.

There's a power vacuum. The opposition is all together, which everybody, it's easy to agree on getting rid of the bad old regime and much harder to create a stable country in which everybody compromises and moves forward. They need a strong leader to move the country forward. Do you know who's always good at a moment like that? Vladimir Putin. Do you think he might volunteer to come in and help Ukraine find its way? We don't want, we don't want Putin to get involved in this. And so we are basically, we want to try and involve him in this decision so that he allows Ukraine to go. We actually want to say we want a non-exclusive relationship with Ukraine. You can have a relationship with it too. You're the only one making this into a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship. Ukraine is basically choosing its future between two completely different courses of action and we're trying to blur that choice so the old boyfriend doesn't get too upset

when it makes the right choice towards us. He might punch us in the face. Well thank you so much, Gideon Rose. How spooky is that? just laid it all out for you. Yeah. It's crazy, man. Yeah, and there's there's recorded, um, there's recorded calls in, uh, Oliver Stone's documentary called Ukraine on fire with the, secretary of state, Victoria Newland, who was heavily involved in Iraq when Biden was vice president to Obama. Um, and they're talking about like installing a new regime in Ukraine. And it's all recorded. And she's like, fuck that she says, literally she says, fuck the EU on the phone call. It's all in documentary. It's fucking insane.

bro. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's like the United States does, you know, what's in their best interest and, you know, Russia does what's in their best interest. I mean, everybody's trying to do what's in their best interest. You know, we believe that we believe that our version of the Ukrainian future is the best course of action for them. It's also the best course of action for us, of course. And Russia believes that they don't like the fact that they're moving or that they want to move towards the U.K or the European Union or the West, and they don't want them to do that, and they want them to stay kind of under their umbrella. They want them to kind of be that buffer between them and Western Europe.

And so I know it's crazy. In the beginning of this whole thing, Ukraine and Russia had a deal. They literally had a deal for Ukraine to become autonomous and for Russia to basically keep control like the Dombos Eastern region. Right. And don't go. Don't join NATO. Right. We'll leave you alone.

There was a whole deal. And then we stuck our foot in it. And it escalated into this crazy fucking fiasco. Yeah. It's crazy, man. I mean, I get it. You know, I hear you. I hear you.

Everybody's looking out for their best interest. There's a video. Actually, I just saw on Twitter today. There's a video. Have you seen it? There's a video of Zelensky standing there with these two big, giant, like, how tiny he is? I didn't realize how tiny he was. And he's signing the NATO application.

He's like, I sign this application. It looks like some fucking goofy, like spoof video. Can you find that video of Zelensky signing the NATO application? It's fucking hilarious. It looks like something that like Comedy Central would produce. What's your fortune? I'm going to take my fortune too. Look at mine's all fucking tore up.

All your sorrows will vanish. I don't really have any sorrow. I was going to say, what sorrows do you have? I'm happy. Bro, I'm happy. living with a chick I'm in love with. I'm engaged to be married. I mean, I'm fucking swall, 185.

Woo! On the sauce. Things are going good. I've got testosterone, libido, shooting through the fucking roof. I mean, money's not exactly coming in, but it's, I'm doing okay. It's in the horizon. I'm doing okay. I'm paying my bills.

It's good. Bottom right of the video. Look how tiny. Is he like five foot tall? Like, I mean, who are? Look at these guys. Look at this shit. We got to admit this guy's in the trenches.

Bro. I have Vladimir and this is ridiculous. What's another German name? I mean, another Russian name. We're doing our Vesnachalny Krog, Piedpysi, Zayakka of Ukraine to a fasted in a quickedst in order to NATO. Is that his real voice?

I mean, NATO. I don't know. Who reviews his application? I want to know that. Listen, I think it's going to get approved. I feel strongly about that. Jesus Christ. I did.

So I did a thing the other day for this German company, for a production company in Germany for a show that they're doing. Listen, every time they talk German, like the only German I've ever seen or like I've been to Germany, but, you know, when I was younger, but like the German shows that you've seen are all like Nazis you know World War II so the moment

they start talking I'm thinking they're like all I can hear is like take this one to the gas chambers I mean I'm every time they talk it's like oh my God it's terrifying listening it's a horrible language it's horrible it's not sexy

it's a little angry it is it's not like French it's like French is like rolls off their tongue it's like oh it sounds nice it's pretty They start talking and I think, I'm in danger. I'm in danger. Like all the women. All right, let's wrap this up. This has been a wonderful two-hour.

How long we were? It was nine o'clock. What time do we start? This is almost three-hour podcast. Take the women. Thanks for coming. Adios. Good night, folks.