Danny Jones Podcast - #181 - Explosive New Bob Lazar Evidence & Area 51 Secrets Revealed | Jeremy Rys

Episode Date: April 16, 2023

Jeremy Rys is an independent science & technology researcher with a long history of research & investigation into advanced propulsion concepts. He has covered a variety of topics both directly and indirectly related to advanced propulsion, ranging from replication attempts of various devices to speculation about UAP & UFO propulsion systems. EPISODE LINKS https://www.youtube.com/alienscientist https://alienscientist.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny https://twitter.com/jonesdanny JOIN OUR KULT: https://bit.ly/koncretepatreon OUTLINE 0:00 - The case against Bob Lazar 2:59 - Element 115 8:39 - Bob Lazar’s educational background 16:49 - Site 4 (S4) 21:05 - Evidence Bob made money from his story 28:30 - Mike Thigpin 34:24 - Demon core: the strange death of Louis Slotin 38:58 - Biometric bone density scanner 44:56 - Alfred Loedding flying saucer designs 50:01 - Papoose Lake 52:27 - MIT / Resume 1:04:31 - Quantam Electro Dynamics 1:13:47 - Recent UFO disclosures 1:15:07 - Roswell 1:27:00 - Light propulsion 1:42:10 - Super cavitation 1:46:12 - Tic tac UFO & ‘Cube Inside a Sphere’ 1:56:40 - Mirage effect technology 2:11:19 - Biologically engineered beings 2:22:40 - Drones & cold fusion 2:41:25 - Cattle mutilation & Robert Bigelow 2:48:36- Camp Hero / Montauk 2:56:12 - Will Bob Lazar debate Eric Weinstein? 3:03:34 - Malcolm Bendall & building the pyramids 3:23:07 - What if Bob Lazar is telling the truth? 3:31:47 - Hal Puthoff Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is the strongest argument against Bob Lazar's story that he has, for the most part, kept straight for the last 35, 40 years? Well, a lot of it is kept straight, I think. Well, a lot of it's kept straight because it's like telling the story. He's told it so many times. It's kind of like reading the script. It's kind of like you just memorized your script and you've rehearsed it and you know your script. So I don't think that, you know, it's not that hard to say that because he hasn't changed this. It doesn't mean the story's true just because he hasn't changed it.

What makes the story true or not is whether there's, you know, supporting evidence for things. So like we've investigated S4, for example, the secret facility at Papus Lake where he claims he worked for this period of time. Or his timeline, his background, you know, what would even the background. check thing. We talked about this issue of background checks and how he got the background check to even have worked out there. And, you know, have you looked into the guy's background? Did you do your own background check on him? Me personally, all I do is just listen to podcasts about him. I haven't done any of the real homework. I haven't looked at any, like, classified documents, or I haven't like subpoenaed the MIT or Los Alamos Labs. But I haven't talked to like his former, you know,

associates, you know, people who are important figures in the case. Right. Or what are the biggest holes that you found in his story? Well, the biggest holes, I would say, there's a couple of them. So one is the issue of how he was hired in the first place. The background check is the biggest hole because it takes normally like eight months or more to do a thorough background check on an individual. The background checks that investigators and other researchers have done in Bob Lazar, you know, show a whole history of this guy would not have passed a background check, especially he's friends with John Lear, who was the guy who was blowing up the whole UFO story about the base in Area 51. He was on George Knapp on the record a year before Bob Lazar talking about this top secret base and saying that there was a subsection with this secret base.

hangar complex that had 11 recovered alien disks in it. And that was John Lear saying that there was 11. Yeah, he said there was 11. Boblazar said there was nine. And, you know, later, you know, was basically confirming John Lear's story that John Lear had already told a year before. And there's just so many elements of Boblzar's story

that we have tracked down because, you know, if it's easily he classified information on scientific level, right, like the Element 115 stuff. So that's the real big scientific thing that he supposedly came out with. And there's so many misconceptions about that as well that I'd like to spend a minute to clear up. Okay. So one is that, you know, elements are, you know, the element number is based on proton number.

That's how many protons are in the nucleus. So hydrogen is number one. It has one proton and one electron. the electrons number balances the proton number so that has a zero charge. They always like to be neutral. So this issue of the protons is just addition, man. So you're just like element 115, you know, the periodic table goes up to a certain number. And then to just predict that it's going to go to higher numbers that we haven't created

yet. I mean, this was figured out back in the 1960s by a guy named Glenn Seaborg who worked at UC Berkeley. And he worked on a lot of the particle accelerator experiments that, you know, built the entire, you know, higher half of the periodic table. And while it's interesting, you know, he wrote an article actually in Scientific American in 1969 and published it talking about element, you know, the higher elements and the so-called island of stability. So this island of stability was known about by, you know, real physicists working at, you know, UC Berkeley lab. and other places decades before Lazar. I mean, this is people misunderstand and misrepresent the physics constantly. And it's good to, it would be good to get, you know, a guy like Eric Weinstein on with Bob Lazar.

I know that he's, Eric Weinstein has, you know, publicly accepted Joe Rogan's offer for, you know, to have a debate because Joe Morgan put the challenge out there, you know, can we get someone to kind of quiz this guy? And Weinstein finally said, you know what? I'll debate this guy and talk about, you know, physics and MIT. And we'll talk about, you know, the advanced degrees he supposedly has from MIT and magnetohydodynamics and see what he knows about, you know, MHD and MHD propulsion and, you know, get, get a quizzed and see what he comes back with. And, you know, it's interesting as Bob has always said that he would do a technical interview with a group of scientists. You know, he said that in one of the earlier interviews that he gave.

He's like, oh, I'd be happy to do this. And then Japanese television set this up and invited him over. and he never showed up. Really? Yeah. This was back in like the 90s. Okay. And, you know, so he's never given that technical debate with scientists.

He's never debated with scientists. In fact, you know, the first time Joe Rogan had him on the podcast, he had physicist Sean Carroll on like the next podcast and didn't ask him anything about Bob Lazar. And I was like, why wouldn't you ask, you know, the physicists about Bob Lazar and what they have to say about his story? And, you know, I'll tell you, the key thing of, Bob's story is the element 115, which he says is how the power source and the, also the anti-gravity propulsion source for how these things fly. And he claimed, you know, people claim he

predicted it back in 1989. There's lots of other people who predicted it, including, you know, back in the 1960s. The Glenn Seaborg knew that there was going to be elements up that high, you know, and he even predicted the element, the island of stability there. And there was actually an article that was published in Scientific American in May 1989, which is the exact month in year that Bob Lazar first came out with his story. And it's on page 68 of the May 1989 issue of Scientific American. And it's called Super Heavy Elements. And it talks about the island of stability in Element 115. But nowhere in any of this is any mention that it has anti-gravity properties or, you know, energy, you know, production properties. So that's the

best, a big thing. We've discovered Element 115. And people like the, the, the, the, the, the Bells and everyone try to claim that that means that, you know, oh, it can, they've confirmed Bob Lazar's story because they, you know, he predicted it in 1989 and then they discovered it years later. So that confirmed his story. No, it didn't. He claimed that there was a stable isotope and that it had anti-gravity properties. So now, we never discovered a stable isotope and that's one of the main arguments that's

used to dismiss it. But it's also true that certain isotopes like half-neum, for example, or lanthanum, there's like blurs in the periodic table where these elements can actually jump back and forth a little bit. And, you know, Bob Lazard kind of describes that in some of his physics, semi-technical talks about the reactor and its components, you know, he talks about this jumping up to element 11 and then back down and that it kind of, or 14. You know, he's not sure if it was to 14 or to 16 or not, but it jumps around somewhere in there. And there's elements to actually do that. And you can take these unstable elements and you can stabilize them within, you know, an electromagnetic field, for example, like a magnetic bottle. So you can kind of, you know, hold this unstable nuclei together so that it doesn't decay like in a normal time.

So it's possible that there may be some way to isolate and stabilize element 115 that we haven't discovered yet. And that, you know, so I'm not saying that it's been completely debunked. You can't ever disprove a negative. It's not up for me to debunk Bobbazar. It's up for him and Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp to prove that he's telling the truth or come up with some supporting evidence for a story or documentation. And the kind of documentation I would be looking for hasn't come out. So Bob Lazar some more records of his educational background,

which he claims to have these degrees, advanced degrees, and have gone to these schools. Which there is evidence, right? So the evidence came out, right? it's interesting because he had a court case in 1991 and on his court documents he he he stated that he had a his bachelor's degree was from pacifica university which is a correspondence university and what year do you say this it was shut down in in it was shut down in the early 90s as as being a degree mill so this was like 91 i think was the conviction so it was like two two years after he came out

with the story so this place called pacifica was selling degrees yeah selling okay that's where you put So the court case is interesting too because apparently, you know, he had, you know, become this whistleblower about this big top secret program that he was hired to be this senior staff physicist on. And that, you know, afterwards, he was, after, you know, two years later, he's running a brothel. He's literally running a brothel. That's what he gets, well, he wasn't running the brothel. He was, there was a madame who was running the brothel. It was called the Crystal Cove. and he actually got arrested for setting up a CCTV camera system in the apartment complex

and they were filming and blackmailing customers of the brothel. Is there proof that he tried to blackmail people? It's a court case. He pleaded guilty to it. Yeah, you can look it up in Nevada. Yeah, you can look it up in Nevada. So it's there. And there's a video of it online and there's even videos of George Nassau.

talking about the incident, how he's like he just, you know, brought this big scientist whistleblower out. And here goes the whole story because, you know, and apparently it wasn't enough to make it go away. And a lot of people still don't know about that and that it happened. But the court documents from that case, he lists his, he lists his degree was, his bachelor's degree was from Pacifica University, not MIT or Caltech. He doesn't say that. And he says that his, he had some, I don't know, he said something about University of Cal Northridge. I got to look up the documents from that court case, but it's on, it's on there. You can look it up.

There's a whole website, Bob Lazard debunk.com, where people can get like a lot of these documents and other stuff. And other researchers have done stuff on this too, including an account on Twitter called Signals Intel. Yeah, there's not a lot of traction online with people that are trying to pick apart his story and like doing it successfully until I became aware of you. that I really start to notice some of these details. Yeah. People are looking for it because the Bob Lazar story is such a fantastical story. It's awesome. I mean, that's what got me into researching UFOs and black projects

and thinking the government has this stuff. That and, you know, movies like Independence Day in 1997 where they have that scene where they go into the underground hangar. They say, oh, we got this from Roswell and all. So how, from the time you first learned about Bob, How long did it take for you to start to question everything? I didn't start question until I really started going on like forums, like above top secret and other forums where I was really arguing in favor of the case with a lot of more knowledgeable

researchers about it. And they sent me to a lot of interesting links, which educated me about, you know, background checks and Bob Lazar's timeline that he borrowed a lot of money in his past, that he had a lot of debts. he also was apparently you know he said he claimed that he his clearance was revoked right about for the purpose of they he claims that his wife was having an affair with her airline instructor

and that's why they revoked his security clearance and that was because they thought it would be like psychologically traumatizing to him and it would affect his work that is absolutely ridiculous if you know the case because he was friends with John Lear I mean he knew John Lear he had met John Lear and was a friend of his. He had gone there, if you read the story,

so there's two people that are left out of the story in Jeremy Corbell's film. And I think that it's deceptive to not mention them or bring them into the story because they're two of the most central figures in the Bob Lazar story. And that's John Lear and Gene Huff. And Gene Huff co-wrote the original Bob Lazar tapes.

It says a film produced by, he helped produce it. So the original Bob Lazar tapes, the tape that started all this, was produced by Gene Huff. Okay. And in a radio interview that I have saved and I put on my channel, Gene Huff claims that he met Bob Lazar because Bob Lazzar was running a photo processing business at the time in Las Vegas. And that's what he was listed as on court documents. He listed his occupation as a photo processor. So he had the means to fake that W-2 form. and the ID badge.

So those are the only two documents that Bob's produced in support of his case. A W-2 form and an ID badge. Yeah. So the W-2 form has his first wife's social security number on it, we found. That was the weirdest thing. So that was definitely faked.

He didn't even put his own social security number. He put his first wife's social security number on the damn thing, and then they changed it in other versions. But we have the original that he gave, and it has his first wife's social security number on it, which he was married to a woman named Carol Nadine Eslinger or Carol Nadine Strong. She was 10 years older than him. They married in, I think, like 78 or 79, moved to law.

And he was still married with her, I believe, when he moved from California to Los Alamos. But sometime in the middle of that is when he met this other younger girl, Jackie, which her real name's Tracy. They call her Jackie, but he married this. He started hanging out with this younger girl. He apparently married her, but he didn't get a real marriage certificate. He just, like, had a wedding and married her. Well, he was still married to the other woman.

And then the other woman found out and was so upset by it, she allegedly committed suicide. And this is all documented. And then Carol Nadine Strang, we looked up her history, the woman that he was married to at the time he would have had these background checks and security clearances. So the government hired him to work on the most top secret project the U.S. has ever known, then they would have obviously looked into this part of his background and found these holes in his story. I mean, these, these were issues that he had. So

it looks more like he was having an affair with his wife, you know, because he married two women at the same time, this younger girl, and then his older wife commits suicide. And then he, he ends up marrying the younger wife legally on paper a couple months later. And he, his first wife committed, allegedly committed suicide before he was hired to work at site S4? Yeah, this was before. This was 80. This was 86, 1986, 1986. So this was two years before.

So two years prior, two or three years prior to him coming out with this story in 1989, right? So 1986 is when, you know, he meets this younger girl, moves to Los Alamos. And then he breaks up with. you know, and breaks her heart and she ends up committing suicide. Mine's like tailpipe in the garage. They found her in the car or whatever. I don't know if he's the one that found her or what the whole story is there,

but it's certainly very, you know, peculiar and bizarre and strange. And definitely a guy wouldn't have gotten a background check because his former wife was arrested, was involved with a hell's angel murder, according to some newspaper articles and stuff that we recently found from Las Vegas. So she was from Las Vegas and moved up there. Apparently she's connected with someone that worked at Fairchild Industries,

and that's how Bob worked there out in California before he moved to Los Alamos. And he knew in a bunch of other guys like Jim Tagliani who worked at Tonapaw Test Range. And Jim Tagliani knew about S4. Who is Jim Tagliani? He was one of Bob Lazars' friends. So he's a guy that was friends with Bob Lazare and John Lear and all them. And he worked out at Tonapaw test range at a real place called Site 4. There's a real Site 4 at Tonapaw test range.

That's Area 52. So Area 51's in Nevada near Las Vegas. And if you go west from Area 51, you'll fly right over Tonapaw on your way to Edwards Air Force Base. And that was called Site 4. There was a section out there called Site 4, and it was the ECCM, which is an electronic counter-countermeasures radar setup. So they would build mock enemy radar systems like Russian radar, and then they would figure out how to spoof or jam those radar systems, whether it's the frequencies or the signals and stuff.

And this was the origins of the stealth days where they were working on. Right. I mean, the stealth program was a little bit before that, but in the early 80s, but they were still doing a lot of stealth research and stuff out there at the time, which is also interesting because there was another site for that we found, which was at Plant 42 in Palmdale, which is where they made the B-20,

the B-2 spirit bombers. So there's two classified sites named S-4, or Site-4, one at Tonapaw, one at Palmdale, where they're building the B-2. And then Bob comes out with this fantastic story about this place called Site-4, where they're reverse engineering alien saucers and stuff. And that's the same story that, again, John Lear told the year before,

on George Knapp. So it's kind of interesting. You have this timeline where Bob Lazar moves to, you know, the wife thing, he moves to Los Alamos, he's living there, and then he meets this new girlfriend. Something happens at Los Alamos. He apparently only worked, he did work at Los Alamos, so we've been able to confirm that, right? But he only worked at Los Alamos for like eight months that we can tell, that we can figure out.

And apparently he was fired from Los Alamos for using company equipment to work on his jet car, which he was in he was already in there was a monitor article from Los Alamos from 1982 on the jet car article so he was in Los Alamos with his jet car in 1982

doing stuff so you can get a little bit of a time period and if you really chase it down the whole timeline there's no room for him to have gotten the degrees there's no evidence that he got the degrees and then him listing on the court documents that he didn't really have the degrees.

He had a Pacifica University, which is like a mail order, you know, a fake degree. That's possibly a mail order degree. They were doing that. It doesn't necessarily mean he paid for it. There's no proof he actually paid them, right? So, I mean, you could, by some stretch of an imagination, just assume that the government, you know, just tried to put a bunch of dirt on this guy and made up all this stuff, that it's all made up by the government, right?

So then at the end of the day, if you just get rid of all the circumstantial evidence about, you know, that the shows that the guy just may not be who he says he is, may have been involved with, you know, people like John Lear, who's selling the same story on George Knapp, getting tons of views on it. So, you know, here's Bob Lazar working for the photo processing company for Gene Huff. And Gene Huff says that the first time they met John Lear that Bob Lizar went over there to do an appraisal on John's house. And they went to do an appraisal because, uh, Gene Huff were in an appraisal business and he was working, he met, that's how he met Bob Azar because he was his photo guy. So Bob Lazar would go take the, go there, take the pictures, process the photos, build and do the ads for the, you know, the paper and stuff, and that he would hold a tape measure. And this was when supposedly before, this is the guy they hired to be the senior staff physicist to work on, you know, to figure out how this other thing that the, that our top scientists couldn't figure out how this reactor worked.

So we had to bring in this guy to figure this out. Does it make sense? Does that make sense? But is it, it's true though. This guy, first of all, the first time Bob, from what I understand, the first time he met with George Knapp and they did those interviews. He had to do a lot of convincing to get him to do that. Yeah. And then he tells the story of how he actually interviewed him, did this whole story.

And before he published it, Bob like called him and said, no, I don't want to do it. Like he had a change of heart. He didn't want to publish it. Didn't want to go live with it. And George Knapp said that he like wrestled. with him over the tapes or something. Like he described some sort of like a physical altercation. We had to grab it from Bob and fucking published it.

So Bob like and what is there to gain for him? He hasn't made any money off this. He hasn't? That's what he says. He claims he's never made any money off of it. That's what he says. They sold the Bob Lazard tapes back in the, you know, the back of UFO magazines and stuff for 30 bucks a pop back in the 90s.

and I know they sold quite a bit of them. So I know that he made at least some money off it. I've heard that, you know, Jeremy Corbell didn't make what he thought he would, but he made some decent money off the film that he put out. And I've heard that he paid, you know, Bob's wife or some back channel, like so Bob actually did get paid for that. But again, I have no evidence to confirm that. But I'm just, I would love to, you know, do some more investigation into that and find out

because it would be real easy for someone. to just order, you know, a whole bunch of stuff from Bob's business, United Nuclear, right? You know, it would be real easy for Jeremy Corbelle to order, you know, $200,000 worth of scientific equipment from United Nuclear, and then United Nuclear just simply not deliver the equipment. You know, there's other ways to wash that money, and Bob has the means and knows how. I mean, he started United Nuclear because he ran a fireworks, like show called Desert Blast, where they would basically, you know, invite a bunch of people and sell.

tickets to go watch, you know, these massive fireworks and bomb shows out in the middle of the desert where they'd blow up all kinds of stuff. And that was during the days when, you know, it was getting harder. You used to be able to order ammonium nitrate and other stuff right in the mail, you know, and at, and they started putting a stop to that. So you had to be a registered company in order to order those chemicals and get them. So Bob Lazar created United Nuclear and started, you know, ordering those chemicals and selling them. So he started out the whole thing, selling like and and they also they actually got kicked out of Las Vegas because they were you know selling all this glassware and it was you know winding up in all these meth labs all over Vegas and they kicked

them out of Vegas and he had to move the company to Michigan so this there's a lot of history behind how Bob's gotten the money and you know there's also these these companies where you know if he was doing it you would never know that he got paid for it if he did and I'm not sure I would do it either if I didn't if I wasn't getting paid for it what he's done you know but again that's that's besides the point what could he be getting paid for besides selling

these tapes for 30 bucks a pop and helping Jeremy make a documentary and selling some fucking souvenirs on his United Nuclear website I mean that's not like it's a lot of trouble for like that it seems like he would be trying to make a lot more money off such an endeavor like this

you know and he hasn't done any podcast other than Joe Rogan's podcast. But it's interesting because like it's it's almost like why would he pick he hasn't done any documentaries either besides one with Jeremy Corbell. So why would he why would he only work with Jeremy Corbell or only work with Joe Rogan? I would imagine because I would imagine because he doesn't want the attention and he's got people like Joe who are fascinated by the topic and he's got people like Jeremy who are also fascinated by the topic who are pushing this guy to do this. Like come on do this. He's like no, I don't want anything to do with it. You could tell when he went on Joe's podcast.

he was like very hesitant. He had a fucking headache, whatever. And he is not like he was happy to be there. Hey, happy to be here, Joe. Let's talk about fucking aliens. He was, he seemed like he didn't want to be there. It also seemed like Jeremy was his like handler for the whole thing. Yeah.

Because he didn't, and then he got the migraine. It was a lot of questions he couldn't answer. And why is he doing more press? It just seems like he knows the stories a lie and he doesn't want to do more press because he just knows that it's going to get found out. If the more air, the more time he spends on there, all he needs to do is get on a show with a guy like me instead of someone who doesn't know anything about the case.

As long as he's talking to people who don't know anything about the case or people who want to believe in the case and support the case without question, like Jeremy Corbell, you know, convinced that it's real and, you know, that guys like me are part of this, you know, big organization to like shut down the truth. And it's like, well, what's the truth, man? What physics do you have, bro? I've interviewed, you know, real senior staff physicists. I can show you what a real senior staff physicist looks like

and compare that to Bob Lazar. And I can show you what real physics programs and real SAPs and the sort of research and what it looks like. Because I've studied these things and I've interviewed the people who worked on them. We've had them on my podcast. So I tend to question guys like Bob Lazar and especially that's one of the main things is the education, the fact that he'd lie about being a physicist and having these credentials and then not being able to back it up.

is the biggest thing to me. And I don't... When he's on these shows and on these, like, these tapes and these interviews, is there any red flags in his language about physics? Yeah. Well, I'm sure if any physicists who's listened to Bob Lazar talk knows that this guy is not like a real physicist. He's not, you know, he's not doing, you know, real equation.

Some of the most basic, you know, physics stuff, and then he'll throw in a bunch of other stuff, like the gravity A wave and B wave idea. I've had some people on the podcast that have tried to analyze that in different, you know, ways. But again, there's no core physics there. And when you talk about anti-gravity, right, first of all right, first of all right, first of stuff, you can't have anti-gravity without negative mass.

You need to have negative mass. If you're not producing negative mass, then you're not producing anti-gravity. And what he has is the most massive. element you have. So he's not producing negative mass. He's producing, you know, super mass. So it's, it's the opposite direction. It's kind of like a misdirection in all, all fronts. I feel like it's, I feel like it's intentional disinformation, like, that was put out. It's almost like, why was, you know, John Lear telling the story? And then Bob Lazard suddenly meets John Lear and then gets, you know, hired to go work out there, you know, despite that he knows John Lear. And then as soon as he gets

working out there, what does he do? He turns and goes, I'm, blabs to his friends and brings him up on the mountain, you know, with up to the peak, you know, because that's what they did. Apparently, they brought him up to the peak. And that's when, you know, he got the calls and, and, uh, they revoked his clearance and stopped. But apparently he, up at the peak, what they were filming was either Janet flights, the incoming, you know, flight, airline flights coming into the base, or they were filming some, you know,

some of the early Star Wars SDI program, uh, tests on these plasma and laser induced plasma technologies and you know they have proton beams and other types of beams that they could generate balls of plasma in the sky right i want to get into that i want to talk a little bit more about this first one of the things that um i noticed one of the links you sent me was a medium article about one of the guys who ran security clearance for bob at what was it supposed to be area 51 or s4 apparently what was the guy's name again right so Jeremy Corbell put this whole thing out about this Mike Figpen guy. He talked about him on the Joe Rogan podcast and touted him as this ultimate whistleblower proof that, you know, Bob Lazar really worked out at this place and got the security clearance.

But honestly, when you do the security background check on Bob, he doesn't check out. None of that stuff's mentioned in any of this. No proof is given. No video. He didn't record the interview. that he did with this guy. He didn't, you know, record audio. He didn't think, you know, he records himself in his, in his apartment, you know, sitting there with no shoes on for hours in his film, but he couldn't, you know, just talking to George Knapp on the phone or Bob Lazar, but he can't,

he couldn't have recorded that one conversation. That's way more important than any of those. So who wrote this article? This is on Medium. The title is Bob Lazzar, Mike Thigpin, and the clearance investigation. This guy is signals and tell. and I'm not actually sure what his real name is. It almost sounds like this guy Victor that I know, but I'm not sure if it's him. So I want to figure out that there's a clip in here. Scroll down,

there's an excerpt from an interview with Mike Thigpin. Who does it say conducted this interview with Mike Thigpin? Is this the guy who wrote the article? Yeah, so the guy who wrote the article actually, you know, reached out to these people. and found a lot of these people. So there's a lot of people that have been doing, you know, their own background investigations on Bob Lazar.

So they went out and actually found people who worked with him at Los Alamos and people that worked with him, you know, for all these things and interviewed him and asked them everything they knew about the guy, you know, just to try to get a whole big picture of it. So this guy, I'm going to read a little part of this article. It says, I spoke with Mike Thigpin in August of 2021 to confirm Corbell's account of their conversations. When I asked if he had any recollection of Mr.

Lizar or conducting a background investigation into him, Mike Thickpin said, It's possible I don't remember him. No, I only got knowledge of him where I recall it after he got into the news. I did stop and pause and listen when they threw my name into his story. The author asks, you didn't remember Mr. Lazar? As far as you were aware, did you not conduct a background or clearance investigation on him? Thigpin, as far as I recall, I did so many of them. I, if I did his background, I'm not saying I did at all, but if I did, I don't recall.

The author says, did you not tell Mr. Corbell that you remembered Bob? Thickpin says, personally, no, I don't know Bob. I don't recall meeting him. If I told him, I did, it was an error. I certainly didn't mean to say or apply that to Mr. Corbell. It should be noted that Mr. Thickpin readily agreed to allow this publication of this interview. Gene Huff. Okay.

Now, play that little YouTube clip real quick where they're talking about Mike Thigpin. This is the guy, just to give people. context. This is who, this is in, I think, Joe Rogan's interview with, yeah, the only one he did with Bob. So Mike Vigpin was the guy that did the security clearances to go to the bait, one of the guys that was used. And this is a guy that you worked with. He said he did. Right. And George Knapp, you know, George didn't believe him. George put him through four polygraph tests, right? He tried to see, man, this is a big risk. It sounds interesting, but let's see if he's telling the truth. One of the things was Bob said there was a guy named Mike Thigpin. He did security clearances for the base.

And that's a weird name. It's a very specific. For 30 years, George found this guy in this weird department that he didn't even know. It was Mike Thigpin. The guy wouldn't talk to me, ghosted him. Totally ghost him for 30 years. Used Facebook and Google image match through his children. I was able to find him after 30 years. And I talked to him three times on the phone. He lives on the East Coast. He almost went on camera with me, confirmed that he did security clearances for the base in 1989, confirmed he remembers Bob Lazard. Yeah, well, it's interesting that there's no evidence provided for that. And there's other guys that talked to him that didn't get that story. And again, I've done my own background investigation

on him, and I just don't think he's the kind of guy that would work out at a place like this. Let's let's compare him with someone that did. Look up Dr. Bernard H-A-I-S-C-H. Okay. Here's one more thing as well. One of the biggest things that I believe that have been confirmed was Bob describes that hand scanner that to get into the base, he had to put his hand on this machine that measured like the length of the thing, the biometrics of the bones. The bones and the fingers. And that turned out to be legit.

Well, we'll get into that in a second. But, yeah, so the hand scanners thing, we found that apparently was in Jeremy Corbell's favorite film, which is close encounters of the third kind, which came out a decade before Bob Lazar's story. So there's, again, anything that was claimed classified that was from Bob Lazar story, every single thing that he says was classified, we've found in sources, unclassified public sources before that. I can name every single piece of classified intel that he's ever spoken about, I can cite that in sources that predate his disclosure. So he's not a whistleblower of anything. All this stuff was in public domain. It was all unclassified out there for anyone to find

and put these pieces together. I mean, the story about the scientists who cut in the reactor and supposedly died, you know, there was a movie that came out. A movie that came out that same year called Fat Man and Little Boy. Go look it up. And in the movie, it tells the story of the Los Alamos scientists, the guy's name is Lewis Slotin, S-L-O-T-I-N, and he's the scientist that cut into a reactor during the Manhattan Project. Well, he didn't cut into a mirror. They had a beryllium half-shell, and they were doing, they had the demon core inside of it, which is a plutonium core that they used in the, in the atomic bomb, the first Trinity test.

And they had a beryllium hash shell. Now, beryllium is a neutron reflector. So what that does is all these neutrons that are given off, it reflects those. So when they put this half shell over it, it reflects all those neutrons around. And what neutrons are is a big, heavy particle that has no charge. So if you want to smash atoms apart, you know, you don't use a proton because a proton is positively charged. It can't get anywhere near the nucleus because they repel each other because of the charge. But neutrons have no charge.

So you get a bunch of these fast-moving neutrons rolling around inside this chamber, and suddenly they start smashing atoms up and releasing more neutrons and more neutrons. and it's a chain reaction. And they created the first one with, they were trying to measure the criticality with this half-shell experiment. And they killed three, they killed two scientists. And that's a real story. That's the only, it's a, it's a story where, you know, it seems to match pretty closely

with his descriptions of the reactor core. They look a lot like this demon core in the half-shell that they were using. In fact, the experiment they were using, he was using a screwdriver, and the screwdriver slipped and it fell and it went super critical because the screwdriver was holding that gap up. And when that gap fell, it went super critical. And he quickly grabbed the thing and pulled it off, burnt the crap out of his hand and totally irradiated himself. But he saved the lives of the other nine scientists in the room.

And but sacrificed himself. And for that, he was like giving all these awards and stuff. But he died a couple days later, radiation poisoning. It was brutal, man. The pictures and stuff. But that's a real story about... What is this guy's name again? Louis Slotin.

Louis Slotin. S-L-O-T-I-N. Yeah, that's the dude. Oh, look at the pictures of that thing. That's the Demon Corps right there. So they built a new reactor to run this experiment, and it has a mechanical holder for the half-shell that's on top. So it's lowered and raised mechanically so they can do it from a separate room,

a safe distance away, you know, so that they can run this experiment with precision, and it's not, doesn't have that element of human error with the screwdriver. And the new reactor core design looks a lot like Bob Lazar's element 115 reactor. It looks almost just like it actually. It's like if you were just to modify a couple things on the new, what is this? It would be called a beryllium half shell criticality experiment. That's a tongue twister. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. Varyllium half-shell criticality Yeah As the scientists that were in the room That he saved And they're distant They had he had them draw their distance on the ground So is this supposed to be what he was describing

When he was describing the reactor Inside of the Flying Saucer Well, I think he took pieces of what he learned from He said it was like a basketball He said it was like a basketball This is on display at the Los Alamos History Museum Natural History Museum So there's exhibits on it

all this stuff that he would have seen if he was spent time in Los Alamos. So he would have, you know, he could have adapted this stuff to make up a story, you know, is all I'm saying is that's what it sounds like to me because there's no verifiable intel that's come out of anywhere in the past 30 years on, you know, programs that were working on this kind of stuff or even interested in this kind of stuff. The scientists that were working on it were, you know, a couple of these German guys that were working on CERN, you know, particle accelerators at CERN. They were continuing Glenn Seaborg's work.

Glenn Seaborg was, again, the guy who predicted this island stability. He discovered a huge number of the elements on the periodic table at Berkeley Labs at the Berkeley accelerator. So he pioneered a lot of, you know, physical chemistry research in those early days. But going back quickly. to that hand scanner. Yeah, the hand scanner. So that was in close encounters.

It was in electronics magazines. We found it. We found numerous pre-1989 sources for that hand scanner that, you know, would have, you know, anyone could have known about those. So, but he said specifically that that's what he used to get into Area 51 every time he went there. Yeah, they used the opening sequence of close encounters. Go watch the opening sequence of close encounters. When the guy goes into the top secret facility, there's the same hand scanner right there.

And, and Jeremy Corbell. said in interviews that his favorite movies close encounters. So how could he have missed it? How would Bob know that that was specifically in the fucking in Area 51 though? Because it's in close encounters. Oh, they're filming in Area 51 is what you're saying in close encounters?

They're filming a top secret facility that alien stuff's going on and they have to get into right in the opening sequence of the movie. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that's the exact machine they use. It's the exact machine. It's that exact machine in the picture. I understand it is the

exact machine, but how would Bob know that that is in fact what they have at Area 51? Just because it was in a movie. Do they have it in Area 51? I mean, it was one of the high techs. Yes, there was proof. There was a photo taken. One of the security guards had to provide it a photo of one of these things at Area 51.

Maybe you can find it. Maybe that's the photo there. There's other sources that he could have learned about it from though. It doesn't mean that he learned about it at Area 51. Can you find a photo, like proof of hand scanner at Area 51? Maybe we can find that. Again, another thing about the security at Area 51, right?

So Bob's security badge that he put it, it says MJ12 on it, okay? That's the security badge that he used to get into work. Now, it should have said Wacken Hut on it, because Wacken Hut does do the security for Area 51. And if you see other Area 51 ID badges, they're actually issued by Wacken Hut, and they don't have, they don't look anything like Bob Lazzar's ID badge. So he got that wrong. And then I mentioned that the only other piece of documentation he's provided is that W-2 form, which had his first wife's Social Security number on it. So can you make any sort of argument that he is telling the truth? I tried this one, right?

So let's just say this hypothesis has come up a few times, right? So let's say that, you know, Bob Lazar meets John Lear, starts learning about all this UFO stuff, you know, seeing the popularity that John Lear is getting. And that they're watching John Lear because they obviously they knew John Lear was the only one talking about. He was talking vocally about Area 51 back when no one else was. He had pictures of like a captured Russian mig that we were, you know, basically running tests on at Area 51. He had a picture of it on the tarmac that he went out there and took before they had the security at the base even set up. And, you know, he's like one of those original guys. So Bob Boz-Buzzar meets John Lear.

and then maybe, you know, he was recruited and maybe they said, you know, we're going to plant a seat, we're going to plant a disinfo pill on John Lear. And we're going to, we're going to pretend to hire Bob Lazar and we're going to bring him out to a hanger that we're going to set up. And we're going to bring a bunch of, you know, AZ9 Avro cars, I mean, VZ9 Avro cars and some of the old Alfred C loading. What? Okay. So Alfred C loading. Look up Alfred C.

L-O-E-D-D-I-N-G. This guy designed tons of flying saucers for the military between the 1940s and 1950s at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He was an engineer that built and designed

tons of flying saucer saucer shape and other weird-shaped aircraft. L-O-E-D-D-I-N-G. How did you find this guy? That's the dude right there on the left, yeah. So you can look up a number of his patents

and a number of these crafts. Is that a picture of the craft that he designed right there on the far left? Yeah, that's one of them. I mean, there's tons of them. There's over 100 different models that I believe he designed and flew over the years. Maybe not 100. I don't know the exact number. And those are the blueprints of those things?

There's a whole secret chapter of classified aviation, you know, airframe design experimentation that went on back in the 40s and 50s that the U.S. Air Force was experimenting with that, you know, nobody knows about. So some of these relics might still be around today, some of these craft. Imagine they got a bunch of these in a hangar, you know, put, you know, locks on the doors and then bring Bob in there and tell them that they're working on alien technology in the place, you know, dress up a couple midgets or some kids with, you know, in dummy suits and stuff. And then he says he actually worked on that sport model craft. And he was inside of it. There was no seams.

So there's another couple things that we did. So from his descriptions of all that, right? and his descriptions. Michael Schrat is a researcher I work with. Michael S-C-H-R-A-T-T. And what he does is he takes UFO case reports. And he's actually, he works for an aerospace company as a graphic designer.

So he does 3D models of planes. So he'll take UFO reports and then he'll build a 3D model of the actual craft based on the sighting. And he has a whole archive of all these. Yeah, that's like a big, chart of all the all the ones he's produced

over the years. So he takes all these UFO reports and he draws scale model diagrams very precise based on the descriptions of all these craft that you know are described. So he takes the Lazar saucer and takes some of the descriptions that Bob gave of how tall he was when he went under it and

tries to match up those dimensions to see how big this thing is. And when he did that with the Bob Lazar Sport model saucer, he found all kinds of like problems with the dimensions. that he wouldn't have been able to stand under it in those places that he said he did if it was the size that, you know, he described. And the interesting thing about that saucer,

that sport model flying saucer that Bob Lazar talked about is that it looks a lot like Georgia Damski's craft or the Billy Meyer craft or even before that. So Billy Meyer and Billy Meyer was like the 70s and the Billy Meyer UFO, he was faking all these UFO photos got caught, and they look just like Bob Lazars, you know, sport model saucer. But there's an earlier case from the 50s called Otis Carr.

If you look up, X-C-O-1, Otis Car. And you'll find this guy, he was trying to, he was a UFO hoaxer trying to sell UFOs back in the 50s. O-T-I-S-C-A-R-R. See how it doesn't, like you will not find it unless you know what you're looking for. Okay, here we go. Look at this.

Look at those diagrams down there. Yeah, that's that one right there. So look at the saucer that he built in the 1950s and got a bunch of money to try to build an anti-gravity company based on inertial, you know, gyroscopes. And he ended up building an amusement park out of all the stuff. Yeah, click on that video. And there's a bunch of patents on these UFOs. Open that on YouTube. Click on that link.

Yeah, there go. People have seen these, these saucer patents get passed. around every once in a while people talk about them and it's this this old you know yeah how long is this uh...

is this Billy Carson or gravifugal force effect no it's not Billy almost sounds like that you know Billy yeah I've seen him on your show

I've heard him before circular foil craft there it is yeah it looks just like the sports model and that's from that so like this all this UFO lore that you can trace back like all this stuff to.

And it kind of looks like Bob Lazard, you know, could have borrowed a lot of this stuff, but it's also possible that maybe, you know, a counterintelligence group took all this and put it together, you know, like you got guys like Richard Doty, you know, I don't know if you know who that is. Doty's this guy who worked for U.S. Air Force OSI, which is the Office of Special Investigations. And his job was to feed, you know, people disinformation to try to throw them off the case if they got too close to, you know, top secret programs. And there was this guy named Paul Benowitz.

There's a whole movie on this called Mirage Men. And this guy, Paul Benowitz, you know, he convinced Paul Benowitz that, you know, he wasn't seeing top secret craft going in out of, you know, the Air Force base, what he lived next to. He convinced him that he was seeing aliens. And they even beamed, you know, fake messages through his audio, you know, his receiver and radio equipment to make him think that he was being, you know, contact. and, you know, seeing aliens.

And the guy went crazy. You know, they tried to tell him that, you know, hey, look, none of this was real. I had to do this, you know, Doty tried to tell him that it wasn't real. And he didn't believe Doty. He wanted, he couldn't, he was just got too deep down the rabbit hole. And I didn't commit in suicide. That's the Paul Benowitz story.

And, but it goes to show you the lengths that the U.S. Air Force will go to to keep their classified programs a secret. And it's interesting that mentioned, the two site fours that were classified programs that, you know, were other facilities. And then they talk about this place called Site4 and Papus Lake where we've never found evidence of anything. There's no evidence that there's. So we had a guy, this guy, Gabe Zeifman, he actually flew over the base in like Christmas time.

It's like they shut down the no fly zone. So you can actually fly it like real close through that area. So he got real close with a super, you know, televised. telescopic lens and a real high-deaf, you know, 4K camera. And we got the highest detailed pictures of Papus Lake ever. And George Knapp put this interview out. He showed it. But then once he realized that it disconfirmed the story and didn't confirm it.

And he quietly, like, pulled the story back and it disappeared. And it's like that with everything, George. And George, like, he'll report on all this stuff that debunks Bob, but then he'll hide it or pull it back and it just disappears into the background. But later on, if some debunker confronts him, he can say, oh, I already reported on that. and we already covered that. You know, like, and it's kind of, it's just kind of deceptive. I think that, you know, he's never, he's done some of the best debunkings on Bob Lazar

because he's had to confront all this, like, contrary evidence to the case, but all of it's buried. Has he ever debated anyone like you about this? No, they don't do debates. Then they would never. They would never. He, Corbell did one debate, okay? He did a debate on Bob Lazar with Stanton Friedman. All right.

It's out there. And Stanton Friedman just. mop the floor with him. Who was Stanton Friedman? So Staten Friedman was a nuclear or a submarine guy who got really big into UFOs after seeing one, you know, for, I believe, I don't know if he saw one, but he got super into UFOs and was one of the best, you know, science researchers out there, you know, doing early scientific work in, you know, trying to understand flying saucers and stuff.

But, you know, he wasn't really a, he says he's a nuclear physicist, but he was actually like, a nuclear engineer or something. I don't think he wasn't like super good at physics. He wasn't like as good as some of the other other scientists I've met or talked to. So he's an interesting guy, but, you know, he got pretty far. But he didn't, you know, it's unfortunate. He wasn't alive for the last, he died very, he died, I think, a couple years back, maybe 2012 or something.

What was the, what part of that debate stood out to you the most? The one thing that stood out the most was when Corbell's response, you know, to when Stanton cornered him on the whole issue of him lying about his education, Corbell's response was, oh, come on, you've never lied to get a girl. Oh, really? Or that he lied. He basically lied to get the job or lied to get the job. You know, he lied on his resume to get the job.

And, you know, so I don't know. It's kind of hard to lie on your resume with a, you know, because you have to, if you're a senior staff physicist, as I mentioned, well, I didn't mention that. Let's bring up Bernard Hage again because I wanted to get into that. Bernard Hache has what's called a CV, our curriculum vitae, and that's what any published scientist is going to have a bunch of work that they've worked on. Now, this guy was a senior staff physicist. He worked at Lockheed Martin Advanced Aerospace Concepts Department from 1979 to 1999.

Talk more directly into that thing. Yeah, so 19 to 1999. and he worked on a bunch of classified physics programs as a senior staff physicist. And this is what, you know, a real resume would look like for someone who would, they'd recruit and hire to these types of programs. Bob Lazard does not have a CV. He claims to have a master's degree from MIT. And he claims that his thesis was an M.H.D. or Magneto HydroDynamics, which is a form of propulsion

where, you know, it's like that when you ionize air and make it plasma and then use magnets to move that plasma, that's magneto-hydrodynamics. Okay. So you can use it for propulsion and, you know, which is why he claimed that's what his degree was in, that that would give him credibility to have, you know, actually done the thing that he did or get the position out there, even though Element 115 and the high-end, you know, nuclear physics is really a separate issue from. magneto hydrodynamics.

It's a completely different fields. But I don't know, you look at guys like this and you compare him to Bob Lazar and I'm like, well, you know, why would they hire Bob Lazar? You know, why would they need Bob Lazar when they have dudes like this working on this stuff, you know? Now, what did Bob Lazar say specifically about MIT? What did he say his level of education was at MIT? A master's degree.

He said he had the master's degree. And he said he graduated in 1982. Okay. Okay. which was the same year that, according to the Los Alamos Monitor article, he moved to Los Alamos from California. So if he was in Los Alamos, did he move to Los Alamos and then Los Alamos sent him to MIT? Because that's kind of like what he changed the story.

Yeah, that's how he filled in like the holes in the timeline saying that, you know, Los Alamos sent him to this, you know, program to do a speedy master's degree in MHD, which apparently never wrote a thesis paper for because there's no record of his thesis paper. That's what he says the government scrubbed, right? They tried to scrub everything out of it. his life. How could you scrub that? It's it's published in journals and then other other, you know, there's other scientists in that field who read every paper if, like, if I'm in magnetohydonemics, if a new paper comes on MHD, I'm reading it. And I'm like, oh, who's Robert

Lazar? And you remember these things. So nobody's ever heard of him in the field. There's no record of his thesis, you know, anywhere. He didn't keep a copy of it. You know, there's none of that. So, so there's, there's lots of things like that that are hard to say, like, well, he says the government deleted all the records. How could they delete every yearbook issued to every student who graduated in 1982? So there's no yearbook or anything like this? There's absolutely zero proof he was ever at MIT. Yeah, that's all we take is a yearbook picture, you know, a class listing.

There's no proof, you know, and that's why Eric Weinstein recently, you know, I think he's starting to catch on because he challenged Bob Lazard to a debate. He said, well, Joe Rogan asked me if I debate Bob Lazar and he hadn't really looked into the story at the time. But I guess now he has and he wants to, you know, get into the MIT and what physics, you know, who put physicists do you know? You know, because he was asked one time in 1993 in Rachel Nevada. It was the last Q&A session that Bob Lazare ever gave publicly. And he was asked at that Q&A session by Tom Mahood, oh, you know, you claim that the government deleted your educational records, you know, could you kind of, could you try to reconstruct some of

that history? could you name some of your professors from Caltech or MIT? He said, oh, sure, you know, I guess, you know, Dr. Duxler and Dr. Hossenfeldar is what Bob says in the interview. And he says that Duxler was from Caltech and Hossensfelder was from MIT. And couldn't find anyone in the whole registry with that name. So Stanton looked up, you know, Duxler and the whole, you know, APS, you know, has all the, anyone who's a physics teacher or a student, you know, gets into the American Physical Society or APS, and you're listed under there.

I'm enlisted under there. You can look me up. And he looked up Duxler and found that there was one professor Duxler who worked at Pierce Jr. College in Woodland Hills, California, which is where Bob Lazare lived after high school next to a rocket engineer named Eugene Gloherf, who actually built those rockets that he's on the jet bike with. You know, he's got the rocket bike and the rocket cars. So those are Glohoeff pressure jet engines.

They're not actually rocket engines. They're extremely inefficient and extremely loud. And the, yeah, so that bike was built by his neighbor. He lived in Woodland Hills, California. That's where the article's from and it talks about him there. Yeah, Eugene Gloverf, and he was a helicopter. He worked for Sikorsky helicopters as well. So he's an interesting guy.

And, yeah, Bob Lazare lived in Woodland Hills, California, went to Pierce Junior College. And then St. Frieman went and looked it up and found records that he actually attended classes there and asked Dr. Duxler to, you know, look in his records and said, yeah, he did have a student, you know, by the name of Bob Lazar, Robert Lazzar in one of his classes. So, yes, it's a fact that he did go to Pierce Junior College. And if you can go to MIT and go to Caltech, you don't go to Pierce Junior College. Right, but what he says... You don't go to community college if you get into MIT and Caltech. Right, but I think he claimed that he was sent to MIT by parts of the government, whoever he was working for it, to learn more about some of this technology that he was studying.

That's what he, I believe that he claimed that could be wrong there. That's possible, but then again, you know, would there be records of him being in Cambridge at some time interval and there'd be, he'd have firsthand knowledge of things like around Cambridge. he'd have knowledge of people that he worked with or was there with, you know, and then some people say, I can't remember any of my teachers or any of my professors from college and this and that. I was like, you don't remember your academic advisor? Like, if you're in a, you know, program like this, I can remember all my teachers from high school. Like, I ran into one yesterday, actually, you know.

You know, it's the thing about him is he doesn't smell, like, he passes the sniff test. He doesn't appear to be, he doesn't appear to be a liar. He doesn't, he doesn't. If he's playing a part as a character, he's got it nailed, man. He is a liar. He's obvious, yeah, like everyone says. I was going to cast him as a role in the movie, man. He'd be a great character to play the part for sure, man.

He does a great job at that. And he had me fooled for a number of years, man. I used to argue in favor of Bob Lazard until I got, you know, smartened up and educated by real Area 51 and real physicists and real scientists. And, you know, got deep down the rabbit hole on all this. propulsion stuff, man, because, you know, if you think Bob Lazar is the epitome of where this is this technology and this stuff is at, you haven't even scratched the surface. So what gives you the right to question some of this physics stuff with Bob Lazar?

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I mean, I know a little bit, but I mean, I talk, so I've gone and interviewed. We run a site called, one of the guys that got me into all this anti-gravity research was Tim Ventura back in the day with American anti-gravity. And I teamed back up with Tim and we started this conference because I thought he's perfect for the role. He's our moderator. And we wanted to bring people in and create an academic and open community where we could discuss these kinds of ideas is at UFO propulsion and discuss UFOs and anything goes kind of conference. And we got the idea because we attended the SD's Park Conference, which is an annual conference put on by James Woodward.

He's famous for the Woodward effect or the mock effect. And Woodward puts on this SD Park conference every year and gets a number of really good scientists out there to talk about their ideas for propulsion and physics and stuff. So, um, the best, the one of the best ones from that was, uh, Nathan Inan, I N-I-N. If you want to look that up and get a good, a good physics primer on anti-gravity. Did you go to school for physics? Like, what, do you have any like degrees in physics? Yeah. Yeah. So I went to Bridgewater State University and, um, and I got my, I graduated in 2012 with a bachelor's degree in physics. I did a minor in math because there's a lot of, cause, because just cause. And, um, you know, I, I, so I have a background. in physics. I can speak the language enough of it to, and I'm not

really like super into all this crazy tensor and string theory stuff. I'm not, no Ed Witten, you know, so to speak, but you know, I'm not, but I know enough where I can, I can dabble in it, and I'm more of an experimentalist and an engineer kind of guy.

So I'm, I, I bridge that gap, but I can talk to a lot of the, I talk to those people and I can, I can mediate, you know, I can understand enough of what they're saying even if I don't get all of it all the time I'm pretty I'm pretty up on it so Eric Weinstein was recently talking about Ed Witten and he was talking about him as if he was Gandalf of the Gandalf of physics and uh he said he's a mathematical wizard and just a genius is it true that I mean what I think he's a smart people's smart person I think what he was trying to

say was that even Ed Witten is not even in striking distance of understand or coming to any sort of conclusions on this anti-gravity. Well, it's interesting because Ed Witten went down the string theory rabbit hole, you know, in the late 60s and early 70s and stuff. And he was working, you know, there's the father and son team that Eric Weinstein points out, Lewis and Ed Witten, right? Lewis Witten got approached by Martin Marietta Corporation and was like, oh, we're going to, we're trying to, we want you to figure out anti-gravity for us

and you're going to figure it out. And so they put him through. What year was this? this was like I'd say the 19 when did it start probably 1950s he goes over it on if you want to look it up you can look up

an article 70 plus years of anti-gravity history there's an article on the drive.com where they actually have the video with Lewis Witten giving the whole story so if people want to look that up they can find that whole thing

an article on it and a video with some links to more information on it But yeah, 70 plus years of anti-gravity history, if you just search for that. But the other thing is... Are people still working on anti-gravity? I know at least 12 groups that are right now that are 12 different groups of people that are trying to figure out and doing different approaches and different methods.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people who are still working on it. And we've, there's been 70 plus years of projects, you know, this is not just, There was all kinds of other projects. So they had a whole facility. The other team was the husband and wife team. That was Bryce and Cecil do it at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. And at North Carolina Chapel Hill, also in North Carolina, they have this guy, Andrew Bonson.

So they had, yeah, Andrew Bonson. And Bonson was the guy who was fun. He ran a big air conditioning company. He had a lot of money from smelling air conditioning units. And he wanted to restitching air conditioning units. from selling. And he ended up, you know, funding this lab called Bonson Labs. And they hired, you know, Thomas Townsend Brown and a number of other guys to try to, you know, do experiments on anti-gravity back then.

That was, you know, 54, 56 and stuff. So they have this whole facility down there. I know that Bryce went down there before. Yeah, this is a cool article. But, yeah, it, there's more history to this. the physics. So what's interesting is that Bryce DeWitt was working a lot with John Archibald Wheeler, who was Richard Feynman's Ph.D. Advisor at Princeton. And Wheeler did a lot of classified work. He worked on the H-bomb. He actually left H-bomb secrets on a train one time on accident, and then got so

scary. He refused to leave Princeton after. He wouldn't leave Princeton after that and stuff. But John Wheeler was a genius. He came up with all these different concepts and stuff. And one Two of the interesting things that he was working on specifically with Bryce Do-It during this period in the 1960s before physics got corrupted by string theory and sent off a cliff, they were working on resolutions to the paradoxes between quantum mechanics and general relativity and special relativity. Like how do you merge relativity with quantum mechanics and make the two consistent? And they were struggling to how to do that. And one of the solutions that they came up with was this issue of quantum non-locality.

And that's this issue that the substructure of space is on some higher dimensional plane, that space and time are actually like a holographic illusion, and that everything exists all in one hyperplane all at once and that we just see different things and different specs from different observer viewpoints and stuff. A lot of this was confirmed, you know, he was later by like Elaine Aspect and John Bell and others, you know, with some of their experiments, but what, what, what, that core argument of the quantum non-locality,

that's, that explains right there how UFOs are getting here. Because if you can create an Einstein Rosenbridge between these two points in the universe, um, you can open a wormhole and then just, you know, step through. But then how do you, how do you do that? How do that is another story. And, um, I got kind of got in this on Brett's channel a little because he was like, you know, making the relativity argument for why aliens can't get here that we've all heard the speed of light is the speed limit. You can't go faster. Right. And that. But- Speed of light would take, I think, what was he saying? It would take 100,000 years to get here from somewhere. But how long does it take for the photon? Because for the photon, it's instantaneous.

Why is that? The photon does not experience any time at all. In fact, the photon makes the trip, goes backwards and then to negotiate, and then goes backwards in time. And then goes backwards in time. and then figures out which route it's going to take, according to QED, which is quantum electrodynamics, the theory of light as written out by Richard Feynman, which is super interesting. That's like this pilot, this pilot, it was the pilot wave theory. It's one interpretation of quantum mechanics.

There's two different interpretations. One is this pilot wave interpretation, that's Bohemian quantum mechanics, and the other one is Copenhagen interpretation. That's the Schrodinger's cat, where it's both alive and dead at the same. same time in the state of superposition before the wave function collapses rather than it takes the trip, renegotiates, and then figures out which way it's going to go. It's kind of a different

approach to the quantum action, the principle of quantum action. But this whole idea is that for the photon and light, it seems, has a lot to do with all this. Because I mentioned, in order to create anti-gravity, you need negative mass. So how do you create negative mass? Right. Well, they've done it experimentally. Did you know that? I did not know that. Yeah, there's an experiment that they did at University of Rochester where they created negative mass in a laboratory. And they did it using something called Polaritan condensate. Now, what the hell is Polariton condensate?

Well, it's liquid light. There's another word for it. It's light that's been trapped inside of a material. So when light goes in a material, it produces these quasi-particles inside the material by the interaction of the electromagnetic fields to the material. Those are called excitons. And when the excitons are large enough to polarize the actual, you know, physics inside there, the vacuum, you can actually create these Polaritons, or, you know, or polarons, there's Polarons and bipolarons. And these are all quasi-particles that you can basically generate in materials. And through these generation of these quasi-particles, you can

create systems where negative mass can be produced through these Polaroton condensates, which is liquid light. It's trapped light. So it's fascinating because you see these, you know, UFOs that like appear like glowing balls of light and then they do this warp thing, you know, and how are they doing that? And is there any, you know, interest, you know, is there any physics behind this? And well, sure enough, light can produce propulsion. You know, there's a number of, you know, we, I mentioned the radiometer, Crook's Radiometer. It's a, it's a, it's a meter which measures radiation or The Crooks Radiometer. Yeah, I think that's what it's called.

Yeah. And this was what you showed me in the Giza Power Plant book, in Christopher Dunn's book. No, that was the Crooks tube. That's an electron gun. So, yeah, that was, remember Joe Rogan had tombed along on the podcast, and he's talking about this, you know, meta material that they have that they use to warp space time. And he's saying, oh, they fire an electron at it, and it goes slower, you know, one way than the other. and, you know, Joe Rugo was like, how do you fire an electron at it?

And Tom Nguang is like, I don't know, I'm not a physicist. And, you know, the answer is a crooks tube. That's an electron. A crooks tube. Fires an electron gun. It's an electron gun. Yeah, so that's what you could have used to fire electrons. But this is a little different.

So electrons, these are photons. These are light particles. And light particles actually, you know, contain mass or they contain momentum because you can get this thing spinning just by shining light on it. And it's just black squares on one side. white on the other. So what happens on the white side is it's reflecting the light and on the black side it's absorbing the light. Right. So it gets a, there's an imbalance in the forces from the light, the pressure that the light puts on there. So that's what causes the thing to spin or rotate because

you know how they get the black on one side and the white on the other. So that's the principal concept behind this. So light has momentum. So you can use light to push things. So if you get enough light, you can push heavy, I mean, this is really light, perfectly balanced thing, and, you know, you're using a small amount of light, but it can still push it. But what happens when you get a ton of light and you bounce it around inside this resonant cavity, you know, in this metamaterial that you've created that is made to capture and trap light. It's essentially a piece of glass or a dielectric between two mirrors. So the mirrors just bounce the light back and forth between the glass, you know, in the middle. So the light goes in and they're one-way mirrors. So you can, the light goes in and then it gets

trapped and you can bounce it around. And then you can do different things to that light. You can squeeze it. And then you can set up other, you know, zenic surface waves and other types of waves in the structure to produce these different types of condensates. So condensates are condensed matter physics. So it's not like condensed milk where I'm, you know, evaporating all the water out. It's where I'm cooling all the quantum particles so that the statistics that govern them all fall to the same level so that they start behaving, you know, their quantum mechanical behaviors start becoming more emergent. So you're creating, you know, macroscopic objects that are exhibiting quantum mechanical behaviors.

That's how, you know, you can, there might be a window into how to, you know, change physics altogether. And if they're not working on this, then they should be. And I don't think they would have figured this out in the 1950s. I don't think they had the math or the material science back in the 50s. Assuming that we captured actual pieces of UFOs or extraterrestrial technology, we might have had some of this and maybe back engineered or learned something from studying those pieces. But as far as us being able to build them and manufacturing them,

I don't think we're at that level yet. I think that that's where the problem is right now in the whole industry being able to do this. That's why I'm not worried about talking about this. kind of stuck. I don't think, you know, Russia and China, it would need a, you need a very large state apparatus to be able to fund a program and research something like this. What do you think these modern day UFOs are then? Do you think, do you think they are from somewhere else? Or do you think they are something we found and figured it out? Or do you think? I like to evaluate every UFO case on an individual basis because it's just there, it's all different

things there's so many there's such there's so many technologies that people have no idea about and I'm like oh god now I watched this one that was a video and like look at this thing it's transmedium it's coming out of the water and then it's flying around then it goes back into the water and I'm like dude that's a blurred down version of the MPUAV cormorant go look it up it's a they decommissioned a bunch of nuclear subs and they you know Lockheed Martin did this and they started you know figuring out what they could do with the launch systems for the nukes and the subs and they've they built this craft called the cormorant, which gets shot out of the friggin water and can fly and then return to the water and get, you know, reconnect with the submarine.

And that's what they showed the video of. And it's like, well, you know, if you didn't know any better, you'd think it was aliens or a UFO or something. But then there's other cases where, you know, you have, that are more intriguing, you know, where there's actual debris and contact and other things, you know. Let's start. Maybe we should start with Roswell. Yeah, Roswell is a perfect example. You have all these rural farmers, you have, you know, Mac Brasel, the farmer, you know, finds this material, brings it into the bar, brings it to, you know, to town.

It shows a bunch of people this. Apparently brought it down to Roswell Army Air Base and some other people found it and were showing a bunch of pieces to the fire station. So lots of people handled this material and they described it as this memory foil. Right. Which is a, it would, you could crumple it up in a ball and then let it go and it would go back to its original. shape and memory metals are super interesting like shape retention alloys so night and all is the example the first one that we created and it was not created until 1954 at Naval Ordinance Research Labs

night it's called night and all yeah night and all it stands for nickel titanium N I TI NOL Naval Ordinance Research Labs oh wow so it was discovered at Naval Ordinance Research Labs back in the 50s but there's evidence that they were working on this or looking into titanium alloys at Battelle at Wright Patterson as early as 1949. Because Wright Patterson, 1947, Roswell happens. All the debris ends up at Wright Patterson, allegedly, right?

That's where Nasick is. That's where the U.S. Air Force Aerospace Intelligence Center is. That's where U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. This is the hub. This is the real, like, it's three, four times the size of Area 51. And they have way more intelligence people and way more stuff. Area 51, if anything, is just a test ground.

If there's any kind of real, you know, nuts and bolts, you know, physics and science research, it's going on there at Wright Patterson and Battresson and Battelle. Betel would have been a perfect choice if you had alien technology and had to come up with a contractor to who to look at it. They were doing, you know, tank armor metals research and they had all the experts in metallurgy that they needed at the time. And they were also a private institution. So they're not actually a government organization.

They're a private institution, so they don't have to follow the same. Battelle, B-A-T-E-L-E-L-E. Yeah, B-A-T-T-E-L-L-E. It's Betel Memorial Institute. And it was set up in the early 20s, I believe, late, late 20s. And it's been around, you know, almost 100 years now. They currently manage all of our national labs. Did you know that?

No. Yeah, Los Alamos Labs, Oak Ridge, you know, every... you know, everywhere is managed by Battel under contract. And that's kind of scary for science because if you want to control technology and you want to, you know, have a UFO cover up of this kind of scale, you need that. What do you think happened at Roswell? What do you think that was that crashed there? It's interesting.

I think that a number of people who brought out their scientists to look at this that have testified to it and talked about it. Robert Sarbacher claims that he was, you know, brought a part of it. Interesting guy. He did a lot of work on Pallaritons and exciton physics, coincidentally, in his years of research. And also a guy named John von Neumann, was one of the smartest guys on the Manhattan project.

He came up with the idea of modern Neumann probes just four months after Roswell. So, you know, maybe he heard about the idea that it was a crash. and he just came up with that idea from his imagination or maybe it was a von Neumann probe that crashed I don't know what's a von Neumann probe that's a self-replicating space probe it's a like a type 3 robot that can go out make copies of itself and call and and and then colonize and and share and send back information so that's what it's a it's like a droid that comes here and and and sets itself up like a monolith or something and just records information and studies us you know it would probably go on scene

plug into our internet once we created one, you know, stuff like that. There's a whole bunch of theories on them. Another one that's called Bracewell Probes. That's another variation of this that are slightly different. Von Neumann is responsible for like the first computer, right? The first super computer that was ever, and it was like a, like a eight-ton computer or something? No, that's touring. No, I think that was touring.

This was, Von Neumann was the human computer. He was called the human computer because he could do Calais. like very complex, you know, large calculations in his brain. And he did a lot of the, you know, work for the Manhattan Project on that. But I don't know if he did any direct work on computers. He was more of like the theoretical and computational physicist for Los Alamos. But yeah, that way, I believe, was Turing and Babbage were some of the first computer guys that, you know, but I don't know. Supercomputer was gray.

Gray, I think, created the first supercomputer, really. the 70s. Maniac. Maniac was the name of the computer. An army funded electronic, it was an army funded electronic numerical integrator. The first computer in the world and was the first computer. It was 100 feet long, 10 feet high and it had a 17,000 vacuum cubes and it weighed 60,000 pounds.

Look up that, yeah, the maniac computer. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he did some of this computer work too. I didn't know what his computer. Yeah, Annie Jacobson talks all about this in her book, The Pentagon Brain. Yeah. And, you know, this is kind of like this sort of research.

It's a vacuum tube computer. Right. And this was all, like, this computer was used to calculate the exact amount of feet in the air. They needed to detonate the bombs over Japan to create the most civilian casualties. Yeah. Like they literally figured out the exact altitude to detonate those bombs. Yeah. Probably just set in like two integrals and set them equal and found the intersection point.

And it had to do it with computer. It's probably very complex functions. This is dark shit, man. Some of the stuff that Von Neumann and Herb York were working on in the beginning of DARPA or it was called ARPA in the beginning. Yeah, ARPA. Arpa net was the original internet. Yeah, that's cool. I didn't know about this, man.

So, like, yeah, it just shows that they knew it was computers. and they knew they needed to figure out computers and integrated circuits and stuff. I mean, that's the thing. Like, guys like the day after Roswell with Corso, he says that, oh, all our integrated computer chips and all this stuff came right from Roswell and stuff. And it shows that they were working on this stuff.

This stuff existed before Roswell, man. I mean, they had vacuum tubes. They were working on the transistor, you know, even though it was invented after Roswell, I don't think it came from Roswell because the guys who were working on it, like had all the solid state theory behind it. And then all the physics was there. It didn't like come from nowhere.

And it can all be traceable to human scientists and human sources. That's another thing I don't like in all this because a lot of times the aliens get the credit for all these discoveries of this stuff. And it's like, no, you're missing all the history and the real science and the people who worked on this. And there's people that spent their lives to get the science of this to this point. And you're going to give, you're going to credit aliens for everything. It's like the same thing. So did you tell me, I don't remember if you actually said, what do you think was it, what do you think it was that crashed at Roswell? Oh, I don't know what it crashed at Roswell, but I don't think it was Project Mogul.

I don't think it was Project Mogul, the Weatherballoon train, right? The Alvarez, you know, explanation. Right, that was a cover up, right, where they had the guy take a photo with posing with that piece of like foil saying it was a weather balloon for the news. Both the guys in that photo. So Jesse Marcell and Colonel DeBoe both testified to a material. switch and they said that that was not the material and that they fake that photo op and they did a material switch. So

both the top intelligence officers right there testified to that. Numerous people who handled the material described it in great detail. Yeah, that's a piece of radar target and everything and you know, weather balloon with radar target.

So that's, you know, you can see the look on disappointment on Marcel's face, almost like he's being forced to do this and he knows something more. And even Jesse Marcel's son said he stopped at the house on the way home and showed his son some of the material. Right. He said he saw it too. He said it looked like this crystallized stuff and, you know, this bakelight material or something.

But it was, you know, so the materials that were described by all these witnesses who saw it was not a weather balloon. It just hard to believe that it was mistaken by Air Force intelligence for a weather balloon that, you know, they would make this mistake and then have to fly it out to Fort Worth. Could you imagine like the Air Force intelligence getting to Fort Worth and being like, oh, it's a weather balloon? You thought it was a, you thought it was an alien spaceship? Right. You know, so I just, there's certain things that don't make sense. I believe that if it was an alien spaceship, the government completely had the ability to cover it up. They still do, to this day, with what I've seen, their ability to cover other things up, I just cannot possibly believe that they couldn't cover something like that up if it were true.

there's so many people from Wright Patterson that reported handling this material or working on it. Then you have the Betel study that was done in 1949 looking into nickel-titanium alloys. They developed a whole system of dissolving these alloys of unknown origin using chlorine tetrachloride. So they dissolve it in chlorine and then measure the off gases as they burn it in chlorine and dissolve it in chlorine. and then burn it. And they measure the off gases to tell what the thing was made out of. So why would, this was a, you know,

a Battelle document, you know, written for Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in 1949. And the scientists who wrote it, Elroy John Center testified that, you know, he worked on, he was given materials were working at Battel. He was given metals that he thought were from aliens because he didn't think we could make that kind of stuff.

It was impossible, the stuff that he had worked on. he told his wife this and he told other people this. So it's super interesting. Then the director of Battelle was this guy, Howard Cross, who it turns out was connected with some interesting research into all this. And then, you know, NASA doing research into these shape retention alloys as well. The fact that they were looking into specifically nickel-titanium alloys and trying to figure out this stuff that early just shows me that there might be something to this.

They have this, you know, we created the first memory metal based on this technology, and then we're working on it right after this. And all these witnesses are describing this foil, which sounds a lot like a sophisticated memory material. Now, I've heard that it's like a night and all wire, a fine thread of night and all wire that's woven in a fabric. that's actually how some of this stuff is made. And that's why it has these materials that it does, that it's like woven on the atomic level. That's why they looked at it under an SEM and we're like,

how the hell we're going to make this, dude? You know, like you need a microloom or something to weave this or, you know. So it can just imagine that, you know, the complexity of these nanomaterials when they looked at them and we're like, how can we, you know, build this stuff? And what's even going on here as far as the physics goes? Because, you know, you dive into all this Pilaraton, and exciton stuff where you're trapping light inside these cavities and then you can then you can

do things with the light once you have it trapped and you can you can build integrated photonic circuits so you can build entire circuit boards of integrated electronics that function on photons instead of electrons so they're much more efficient you know when you deal with electrons you have resistivity and impedance so you're you're burning most of your energy that you're using to do your calculations on your computer and and do everything on your computer you most of you So that energy is getting wasted as heat. But if you had it all in terms of light instead of electrons and electronics, if you had it with photonics and spintronics of just these microscopic, I mean, nanotechnology engineered

materials that would, you know, can trap and redirect light through all these channels the same way that your computer does it with voltage and current and inside these integrated circuit boards, you could build, you know, very advanced computers that are, you know, and the storage capabilities that you'd have like 5D crystal storage, you know, it would just be, you know, this is, this is the world we're going towards and you can't get smaller than building atom by atom, you know, so that's, if you're talking about alien technology, that's, that's the crux. I mean, that's where you're, we're eventually need to get to is the ability to manufacture things atom by atom and what we're going to be able to do with nanotechnology once we get

to that, you know, level. So this light propulsion technology, you're basically, basically saying that in order for another civilization to get here, that's what they would need to use. The anti-gravity would be irrelevant. Well, it's anti-gravity is kind of irrelevant because it's, yeah, it's not just, you're not just repalling away from gravity. Right. You have to be able to go interstellar. You have to be able to open up these massive distances of time, space time, and create Einstein-Rosenbridge between those two things.

So what I'm sorry I got to this is I'm just dumb so I got to I don't know what Einstein Rosenbridge is. Yeah. So this Einstein Rosenbridge. So they kind of came up with this idea of solutions to Einstein's field equations and a bunch of these you know a bunch of people come up with different metrics and different solutions to them. One of the most popular is the Schwartz child metric which is what black holes do. That's how that's like the topology and physics of. black holes is this Schwartz-Trial solution. Now, these other, so these Einstein-Rosen solutions are, you know, wormhole solutions. Okay. There are solutions to the field equations where you can open up two point and connect two points of space over. Right, like folding a piece of paper in half and poking a hole right through it. Yes.

It's all about how you fold folding the paper and then how you poke the hole. So the opening and the shape of the hole that you poke and all that is super important. to doing that, and this bending and fold in a space time. But how do you do that? So the way we can see it being done in physics is that the photons themselves are actually generating and building and producing the space time. So rather than thinking of relativity as this absolute theory, think of it as an emergent theory that's generator comes out of quantum mechanics.

And one of the guys I like, he does a lot of cool research into this, as Lewis Kaufman, he's a mathematician, he does a lot of knot theory and shows how, you know, he has his whole paper on how relativity can emerge simply from, you know, quantum mechanics and these simple functions, if you just do this expansion and you separate the odd and even terms, you get relativity from that as these two parts. And it's an interesting take on the whole physics of it because it's saying that if we you know when you shine light that light is is is creating an instantaneous it's building the space time the light itself is building the space time and it's creating the these uh einstein rose and bridges between every point that this interactions happen so

if you were able to connect these how do you connect two point distant points in space time is you'd have to have a lot of light going between those two points that that's you know going back and forth or are focused. And is it light in our dimension or is it light in another dimension? And that's, that gets into these, these real hyperdimensional physics that, you know, the hop vibration stuff and the stuff that Eric Weinstein's getting into. Because I think that that's really the, the door opening, you know, into our pathway into those hyperdimensional physics. But it starts with the material science. Because how do you actually build it and do experiments with it? And I think that that has a lot to do with these trap palatiton condenates and also these, what Jacks are

Faudi and others are talking about in some of these groups, these Frolic condensates, F-R-O-H-L-I-C-H-F-R-L-I-C-H-F-Rolick. And this guy was another physicist who came up with this theory. And it's basically these condensates where they're, they can create, you create a supercomputer or a conscious AI, like a conscious AI and a supercomputer on the surface of this Pallaritan condensate, like, you know, with this. trapped light kind of this idea. Okay. And that the, that,

it would almost become conscious. And then that's like a whole other level of just weirdness. Because I don't understand that quite fully or where that's going. But I think that's cool as hell that there's physics involved in it. And just we have a whole team working on like small scale laboratory replication is like, how do we do this? How do we build it? And then we have another couple guys who are working with,

they're trying to use AI supercomputers to, to do material science, engineering, and design. So we want a 2D material that does this, that's like graphene or borafine, you know, so can we, you know, can we make, or you have a material that you want to do with certain things. You have to use supercomputers and AI to engineer and design these things.

And then first, so that way you don't have to go through a lot of the work because the AI can do a lot of those calculations and computations and thinking stuff for you. And I thought that was super interesting. Interesting. We also have one of the largest databases on like all this anti-gravity stuff anywhere. We have just massive like I think 30 terabyte. No, no, 30 gigabytes now. It's 30 gigabytes of, we had like a couple terabytes so we condensed it really down. What type of files are these? This is text. It's books. Wow. Texts, papers, everything that's been published related to, you know, relativity, gravity theory, any of that. these search terms like Polaritan condensates, exciton, Polariton, Pears, gravity entanglement,

quantum entanglement, you know, anything that's related to that. And what we're thinking about doing is training our AI to go through that database. You know, we're going to like get a chat GP4 bot and then train it using our database and then start asking it questions about anti-gravity and physics to help our engineering team like, you know, come further along. So, And I think that, you know, there's other people probably already working on this and doing this. I don't think we're the first to think of this or do it or try it. But yeah, that's what we're working on. We have that.

And we also have the altpurpulsion.com with the APEC conference that, you know, I mentioned Estes Park. So Estes Park during COVID, they had Estes Park conference, which is this propulsion conference that James Woodward puts on. And they had it online on Zoom because, you know, during COVID, no one could meet up in person. And so we did the first thing on Zoom, and that gave us the idea, man, we could be holding these conferences on Zoom. This is just the technology and where it's come is just great that we can do this now, you know? Because they didn't have this back in 2011 when I went to MIT and did the, you know, Cold Fusion thing. But we can do this. We can do this now.

And so we set up our own conference with the APEC conference and we started inviting all these guys. One of the first guests we had on was Mark McCallish. He's the ARV, the alien reproduction vehicle guy, you know. talking about that flux liner and stuff. He was one of our first guests. We had all kinds of people. We had Ronald Evans of Project Greenglow on there. We had a whole episode with a bunch of scholars from India

where they came on and talked about all the research into Vamanas and all the history of Vimana or ancient Indian flying saucers. And we just had a whole bunch of names. Some of these names you probably never heard of. Glenn Robertson, Tony, he's from NASA. He worked with Ning Lee on those podclinol replication experiments. Mike McCulloch's over the UK. He's got a DARPA contract right now working on his quantized inertia drive idea.

There's Ronald Evans of Project Greenglow. We had him on about a month before the BBC had him on to do a report on the same topic. Of course, we asked them much more detailed and deep technical physics questions because we got, we had an hour, it's an hour presentation and an hour Q&A where we just have like a team of DARPA, NASA, MIT, all kinds of super smart guys on there just asking all the best questions. Like current, these guys are currently working at DAR and doing something. They're not under any sort of NDAs or anything. Not for the, I mean, they might be for some of the stuff that they're doing. They can't be specific about, right. They can't share information with us, but they can sit there and get information from our guests or ask questions.

Why not? They love what we're doing, man. Are you kidding me? I can't believe, like, you never hear about this kind of shit. This is, it's amazing that this, this type of physics and this type of science is so, it seems like it's buried. It's so hard to find. A lot of people. I've never heard anyone talk about this fucking, this light photon propulsion before.

Yeah, well, NASA did a lot of started researching a lot of this under the SDI, the, you know, the Star Wars program with, you know, directed energy and, and, you know, these laser light propulsion. And they actually started out of, it's interesting where you see how they create and who they recruit for these projects. So it's often from graduate students or graduate programs or sometimes professors. And it's usually like these obscure universities,

like University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, you know. For example, and the other one I was going to mention was they recruit out of Rensselor Polytech. So Rensler Polytech is who they chose to, to go to ask to help design the Star Wars light craft microwave propulsion, you know, unit. So they hired a bunch of guys out of Rensselaer Polytech to do all that. Did we show a picture of this thing yet?

Yeah. So that's the guy named Lake Maribu. It's L-E-I-K, first name L-E-I-K, M-Y-R-A-B-O. And he wrote this book called Laser Lightcraft. I think it was published in Canada. and somebody, you know, definitely not the DOD or anything, went and bought out every single copy of this book that was in existence. That's the book right there. Lightcraft, flight handbook.

Is it John, John S. Lewis is his co-author. When was this published? You know, it was probably, you know, sometime around 2010 or something. But, yeah, this was the idea. They started with these craft that they, they, they, they, they. started with a laser on the ground, these Navy lasers that they were using to see how far they could shoot stuff up into space. But they realized with the divergence of the beam, that's how far it splits and widens out

as it gets further away from the source. Right. As the beam diverged, and they lost the ability to kind of pinpoint it. So they could only shoot this thing about, I know, 400 feet or so up in the air before they could. Who is they? Who is doing this? They were doing it.

Miribu was doing this out at U.S. Navy research labs. I don't forget where exactly. It might have been New Mexico. Okay. So they were shooting these lasers into the sky? Yeah. What they do is they have to coordinate to make sure there is no satellites

or anything above where they're pointing the laser where they're doing the test because this thing, they could shoot on a satellite potentially with these lasers. They're such high power. Oh, the beam might diverge so much by that point. It might not be enough power. So.

That picture kind of shows. It's like a saucer flying, how Bob Lazar described it flying. Yeah, belly first. Yeah. That's kind of crazy, huh? That is really crazy. So it's interesting that this is, they were working on this kind of stuff back in the 80s, you know, Star Wars SDI program at some of these facilities. So he might have, he may have heard, you know, or learned some information about this and we've been into the story too.

So he had a, but there is impossible to get a copy of one of these. books right now. Not impossible. You'd probably pay, look it up on Amazon, look up that book on Amazon and see, see what you can find. The Lightcraft Flight Handbook. Yeah. Someone went and bought out all the copies. I only can find one for like three grand. $349. $349 for the paperback? How long? Is it prime? Oh, arrives April 18th. It's still mad expensive, though. That is expensive for a book. It's really, it's like more than, you know, even the thickest, heaviest, college textbook i don't think i've ever you know even the most expensive college textbook was add that to my car save that for later yeah you can check it out i it was before i mean it it's been a while

since i checked it but a couple uh when i checked it a while ago it was at like 3 000 and there was no copies of it available so i maybe the i don't people are definitely re i mean that must be a resale maybe a reprint a reissue or something but i don't know if they because it it seems like those kind of things go out of print and they don't want it it's like that's how they classify it it comes out in book form and they'll go out and buy up every copy of the book. But why, though? Why would, who are you saying like the DOD would be trying to get rid of that or hide that? Why would they want to do that?

Because they want that just for war technology, secret war technology. They just don't want it. It's just another way of suppression the information. It's, it's security by obscurity. That's the best, that's the best security strategy. What do you think their concern is with that kind of information being open sourced? they are concerned that more people will know about it and therefore their ability to use it effectively in deceptive warfare will be lessened you know what I mean so so if they're trying to fake you out

and make you think that alien UFOs are swarming your craft you know say they have say we have a bunch of these countermeasures which we can create these illusions of UFOs and fleets of things and even have some drones with maybe some of this lightcraft technology on them that they can they can do some of these crazy maneuvers, hypersonics even, you know? So this hypersonic technology that was developed from this. Do you know that? No. So hypersonics started with this supercavitation, these supercavitating torpedoes that would supercavitate

the water, like this, you know what the pistol shrimp is? No. So the pistol shrimp will actually supercavitate, it creates this like flick, really hypersonic flick and it creates a supersonic bubble, which supercavitates really quick. and it actually knocks out their prey. It will knock out a fish and, like, stun them completely knock them out. Find a picture of the shrimp. The mantis shrimp or the pistol shrimp.

The pistol shrimp. Or mantis shrimps do it too. So, yeah, it's got this one claw that creates this super cavitation effect in it, right? In water. And what happens is for a brief moment, the water vaporizes and turns to gas and also, like, evacuates the area. So like it blows out. So it creates like a vacuum for a brief period of time. So allows it to like lunge towards its prey?

No, it doesn't lunge toward the prey. What it does, a fish comes near and it creates this shockwave that is, it stuns the fish and knocks it out. It just creates such a strong, powerful shockwave that it just knocks the fish right out, knocks it out cold. It's a Manchester punch, you know?

And you're saying that this tech, this is like what's been used with rockets? They use it. They're using it in ICBMs. Some of the advanced intercontinental ballistic missiles will use this. What they do is they direct energy. They shine a laser, a laser point. There's a laser tip in the nose cone that blasts energy a certain distance.

And again, you mentioned how they use these computers to calculate that distance away that they need to do that detonation for the atomic bomb. It's similar to that. They create this detonation in front of the nose of the rocket or the torpedo or whatever. So they supercavitate the air or water and so that the rocket or torpedoes actually flying through a vacuum so that they can eliminate a greatly reduce the air drag by production of these directed energy induced plasmos. And so they're able to get craft up above Mach 10 using this supercavitation technology, which they're, which is, again, this is developed from, this is a, a grandchild of that Maribu lightcraft technology because they started out with the lasers and they're like, oh, creating these plasmas in the sky. And they're like, oh, well, we can, the problem is we need to move that, the laser off the ground and actually put it on, on the,

the craft. That was the first step. Then once they did that, they could, they could figure out how to, you know, they figured out how to tone it just right to create the super cavitating effect. And how, how do you know that this has been published that these are being actively, like, they're being tested on these ICBMs or rockets. It is no video tests of it anywhere. There's one video I could find of a torpedo test, I think of South Korea doing some tests with these super cavitating torpedoes.

But there's no like videos or anything on it, but you can find the patents. You look up Kevin Kramer, K-R-E-M-E-Y-E-R. And he's got a bunch of patents on this, including one where they actually shine the, they shine the laser. down on the surface of a plane's wing and they can take control they can control the airflow over that's what that is right yeah yeah so they can basically oh my god they could take control over your

plane and fly you from remotely you by um affecting by creating these plasmas on your wing they could they could flip your plane um ground you they could put you in a stall they could do lots of things to your your your flight controls by by inducing these plasmas on the surface of your chinese airframe And, yeah, there's all kinds of variations and experiments that public has no idea about that have been done with these technologies. And I think a lot of this UFO stuff is almost like a Pentagon sciop to, because none of the technologies are ever talked about. And it's always just like it's aliens. It's aliens. It's aliens.

And it's almost like the Pentagon is like pushing this narrative super hard. Right. To get people. Right. But it also gets people to report these things, which is good, because if the Chinese and Russia have these things and they're flying them over our country, then we want them to be reported. We want to know about it, right? So, but this gives a layer of safety for the DODs because now people are like reporting it, but they're not getting scared. They're just like, oh, am I seeing aliens?

It's a little bit less scary than it. Am I seeing, you know, high-tech hypersonic spy drones from China and Russia? Now we can talk about the Navy pilots. the Navy pilots commander Fraver in 2004 off the Nimitz saw these the Tick-Tack UFO the thing that basically was like mimicking

or mirroring his movements in his F-18 and the thing like arrived at his cap point before he like exactly where he didn't even know where his cat point was he got there and the thing was already there he explained that Tick-Tac thing

hovering above the water creating a disturbance in the water How do you explain that? Well, there's a couple different, you know, technology. There's a lot of different missiles that can travel like, look like a tick-tack and can cause those disturbances on the water and travel that that fast. So, you know, I'm not absolutely convinced on that.

Again, I take pilot, you know, testimony is pretty credible. These guys are trained. They've seen a lot of different stuff. So it's hard to argue with them. Even Kevin Day, we've had Kevin Day on. And, you know, I believe these guys have seen some stuff. Who's Kevin done? He's another pilot that's seen some of this stuff.

So, you know, and I've never got the chance to really sit down with Fravor or Graves and really grill them on it. Because, again, I'm not like, I'm only interested in what kind of technical intelligence data I can extract from those testimonies and where that can get me. Because that's where I'm at in this game. It's like, you know, if they're not telling me, yeah, I know there's stuff. that flies around that that does crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah, I know that there's all kinds of stuff out there.

But what specifically are they seeing? It sounds a lot like, you know, again, that the cube inside of a sphere sounds like this project palladium technology, which is actually... Yeah, so, yeah,

so Graves said that he never actually saw this thing with his own eyes. Graves said that he saw these things on his radar once they upgraded the radar on their F-18s. And then some of the guys that he was flying with claimed that they saw one guy flew directly past this thing that looked like a cube inside of a sphere

went right by his wing. Yeah, and those are actually that Project Palladium had these balloons that they put a radar reflector and it was actually in the shape of an octahedron which easily mistaken for a cube you know, because they look very octahedron.

Can you find a diagram of an octahedron? It looks very similar to a cube, but yeah, so if you saw that inside of a balloon you'd think a cube inside a sphere, right? That's an octahedron. So, yeah, it's actually an octahedron, and that's what's in the patents for these balloon-type devices. And what is the purpose of these things? So these are early repeater technology, like their signal reflectors, and some of them would be a little bit more sophisticated that they could do radar repeat spoofing signals.

So a lot of them were used as like spoofing. So they would create these balloons. They could inflate one out of a buoy. They'd have these buoy set up that could spontaneously inflate these balloons, and then they could inflate or detonate and pop them on command. So what they could do is have one buoy here, put up a balloon, then pop that balloon and have another buoy, put up another one. So the radar signatures would look like this balloon teleported or did a jump maneuver

from one point to another. And that was like some early experiments. that they did with that stuff. But then other things- Project Palladium. And this was just, and the purpose of this was just to confuse enemy radars?

Yeah, yeah. A lot of it was to confuse enemy radars and also to confuse, you know, your plane, like a planes coming in with radar. A lot of planes report seeing these types of things. And the fact that it mimicked his technologies, that sounds a lot like DRFM technology,

like this digital radio frequency memory where it can take a signal and then repeat it. back. But it's almost like something that's looking at it and then recreating that because like, why did it do those maneuvers? And that also is interesting because one of the ideas we had is this projector thing, you know, that's projecting this. And then someone pointed out, well, you know, the thing did a circle and then it followed him around in a circle. So it would have to project through him at some point. Right. You know, for him to go in a circle around it.

If there was like one source down the ground. So what about, you know, the SDI program put these things in satellites apparently. So they might have these types of lasers in satellites. So they could project, they could potentially project these types of things from above and do that. That's the Star Wars Defense Initiative. That's under Reagan. So they had a, there's a number of these things. Then they were actually practicing with these lasers to be able to take out ICBMs like incoming. So Russia sends over nukes. They can shoot them out of the sky with these lasers on satellites and stuff. It's a whole program that was developed. It was called the Star Wars program under Reagan.

And a lot of these technologies and stuff are basically, you know, the grandkids of that program. You know, a lot of that stuff that that was started in the 80s under the Reagan program. It's connected to a lot of this stuff. But that's not the only thing is there's a lot of other projects that were even earlier in that, like 1958 is when the CIA set up Project Rainbow out at Area 51. And that was their invisibility and stealth program where they were trying to figure out electromagnetic frequency responses. And so EMF response is important to invisibility because it's how do you minimize your radar

signature because it's your return signature and your cross-sectional area and a lot of things have to do with it. It's one equation that they have. It's actually on the area 51 patch. They have the equation for the cross-sectional radar area of an object. And they just exploit that equation to figure out how to minimize that radar cross-sectional area so that you can be invisible to the radar. by exploiting that formula.

That's the reason that the F-117 has those flat surfaces because those flat surfaces minimize that contour. There's less of an edge. And it's really the edges. It's that side of the fuselage, which is that reflective surface that they're trying to minimize in order to minimize that return for the radar signal. There's a lot of technologies that have been done into radar and counter-rador,

And as I mentioned, those are called ECCMs or electronic counter-cumbers. Right. So radar would be an ECM or an electronic countermeasure. You're countermeasure. You're having a countermeasure against incoming airplanes by shining your radar to be able to see them ahead of time. And they're using their ECCMs against your countermeasures to countermeasures using, you know, shapes or flares or other radar spoofing technologies like the Palladium one we talked about or this. There's a bunch of nemesis, project nemesias.

as a whole other series of these war game things where they actually can use this DRFM technology to implant, you know, specific signals into different radar systems. So they can spoof certain radar systems to see whatever they think they want, whether it's a huge fleet or a giant, you know, whatever. They can make them see whatever.

So I talked to Ryan, you saw the clip. You saw I talked to Ryan. I asked them about possibly, you know, these war games that are, or testing these dark technologies, radar spoofing technologies on off the coast of North Carolina or off the coast of San Diego

and his argument is that they would have they have specific ranges that are designed to test this stuff number one number two is they wouldn't be testing it for a span of 10 years from 2004 to 2015 off the busiest

traffic heavy heavily most heavily militarized sections of airspace right there's more there's more air traffic going through that area off the coast of North Carolina where he was flying than anywhere in the United States. So he was like, why would they be testing it there

and why would they be testing it over a period of 10 years? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Catalina Island always looked like a good place to do testing to me because it's off the coast and stuff. And, you know, the Navy SEAL training base there and a lot of setups looks very similar to a lot of the stuff that they have at Area 51 where they build like these mock cities and mock towns out of like cargo containers and stuff.

And they do like training, you know, bombing training. and other exercises on these facilities. Like the seals will, they'll build a whole compound and then the seals will have to set up against one team versus the other to do a raid or something, you know. And they'll do training in these types of facilities. There's a lot of that on Catalina Island. There's also a lot of like interesting microwave and radar array systems set up there

that, you know, other people have been curious about. So there's definitely infrastructure there to do this kind of stuff. Again, why they would do it for a period of 10 years and why they would do it there is another question. And then, yes, it would definitely indeed be, you know, not the military contractors deploying this technology. It would have to be the military itself. Right.

Doing this type of, you know, using this technology in active training or, you know, warfare preparation or other types of scenarios. And maybe that's, you know, maybe that's, maybe it's just new technology and they've been training with it all along. And it just happens that other people see it from time to time and then have to be, you know, derailed with other explanations about what it is. Maybe that's a possibility. I still haven't, you know, completely dismissed that yet.

I haven't dismissed the possibility that it's aliens either. I mean, it could be aliens flying out there. But then again, you know, they have the technology to get here. Why are they using their invisibility cloaks? Because metamaterials and invisibility cloaking and carbon nanotubes that, all those types of technologies you can produce invisibility with. We've done it. Look up Mirage effect.

Look at Mirage effect. CNTs. CNT is short for carbon. It's incredible. We can find all this stuff right on Google. Yeah, if you know what to look for. If you know what to look for. Right, yeah, you got to know what to look for.

You have to know the key words. And if you don't, then you will never, ever stumble across it in your random researches. Right. You know, not in a million years. But if you know what you're looking for, yeah, we'll come right up. Absolutely. So they have a sheet of carbon nanotubes and they run a voltage through it

and it creates a mirage effect which bends the light around. So Whoa. That's way easier than a warp drive, bro. So if you got warp drive, you can invisibility, you've got invisibility cloaks, bro.

This is underwater? Yeah, it's underwater, actually. So explain to me how this is happening? So what happens, right, is they run a voltage through those carbon nanotubes, which are like... What's a carbon nanotube? So like, think of like graphing, you know,

almost like a super, almost like a real, real, almost like a superconductor, but not quite a superconductor. So it's real high, really low electrical resistance in these things. They went in a high voltage through it, it produces a massive amount of heat locally, very quickly.

So, so it's heating up to like, like maybe, uh, I don't know, like four or five thousand degrees. at a very small point on the surface of that. And that temperature inversion creates a warping of the space. And this happens actually, you ever heard of Fatah Morgana? No. So type in FATA Morgana.

So a Fata Morgana is another type of mirage. It's called the Flying Dutchman, because it's where like ships will appear to be floating slightly above the surface of the water. Okay, yeah. And that's caused by, you see that graph, the color, the reddish one, the reddish picture. That's the one, yeah. You get a bigger, you got to get a bigger version of that.

There has to be a bed of really hot air on top of a bed of cold air. And that, see, the super hot air and that layer between the hot air and the cold air is where that refractive index is key. And the refractive index is key because when that refractive index changes rapidly, there's a reflection. off there. So you're actually getting a reflection off of that temperature gradient. Same way that you're getting a reflection of the mirage off the temperature gradient in those carbon nanotubes. So it's, that's how invisibility works. That's how invisibility works, man. You are blowing my fucking mind. Our ice melted. I got to get us some more ice. Well, let's, don't pause. Just keep running it. I'm going to go grab some ice. It's going to about to get real deep.

I'm going to need to wet my whistle if we're going to get deeper than this. Right. So the same do you have a surface of hot air or a hot, the temperature gradient creates an inversion effect where you have a refractive index. And that's the same effect that you look at the hot road on a hot sunny day and you get that mirage effect looking down the road. Right, exactly. Same thing in a desert. You see that.

When you look at like a telephoto shot of a desert, you can see it and people are walking down the road. The surface of the sand or the road is hotter than the surrounding air. Right. Because the sun's right there. and that that temperature gradient or layering effect creates it. So is there any proof that this is actually being used in defense research or any kind of like technology bigger than something in a fish bowl? Yeah, well, there's, so they started the, again, I mentioned the Project Rainbow is the U.S.

Invisibility Project, started by Edward Mills personal. Project Rainbow. So you can search Project Rainbow. Right. And they created a number of interesting technologies. One of them was, this is where the metamaterials first kind of got their background. So, yeah, you're not, maybe not get it for that. But look up wallpaper, Project Rainbow wallpaper, for example, right?

The other stuff called the wallpaper. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. So they created a grid and they printed on it like a grid on the wallpaper. and the grid was like a meta material that was tuned to the same frequency as the Russian radar, the radar systems they were trying to be invisible against. And by coding the U2s with the fuselage of the U2 with this wallpaper stuff, they were able to make it invisible. And this was like a very early version.

Of course, it was very thick and heavy and it created too much drag and other problems for the craft to really be usable and effective. but that was like the big thing because you know they started the Russians were tracking our U-2 flights as you know as early as the 50s and so we were trying to figure out how to how we can get these these programs to go over without. And this was Lockheed that made this? Yeah. Maybe.

Developed by the Lincoln Lab team at Lockheed. Yep. Yeah, it was Lockheed. Yeah. So then they had some of these other ideas for how to how to do it, including the, yeah, the trapeze reflectors. and stuff. But eventually this stuff developed into a study on, you know, materials themselves.

So it's actually the pink, the black paint they use on the SR 71, which replaced the U2 for as a recon plane. And also the paint that's on the F-117. It's this black, very dull black paint, right? Yeah, Brett was talking about this when you guys were on, when you were on his show. Yeah. Briefly. Yeah.

So they actually figured out it's made out of. barium titanate, a version of barium titanate, which is a ferro-electric, and it has an interesting radar response. So they use this paint with metamaterials built into the paint to make it more radar-absorbent. And they burned a bunch of this stuff out because they have to replace, they have to scrape off and replace the paint very often because it's very susceptible to weather and other things. in order to keep it fresh. It costs a ton of money to maintain

and, you know, to repaint these things and do it. And also the toxicity of disposing of this stuff, they were burning in open burn pits out of Area 51 and a bunch of guards got sick. You can look up a case of the guy, the guy's name's Fred Dunham. And he's one of the guards that got like super sick from these open burn pits.

So they were actually, you know, burning the stuff and people were breathing in and getting sick out there as a way to dispose. of the technology supposedly so that, you know, it wouldn't get out. But yeah, that's, it's some, there is evidence of them using this, yes, and on active craft. Oh, there it is. And there's, is there any, like, has there ever been any footage of what we saw on those little tubes inside the water of basically the thing becoming invisible?

Oh, of like, well. Like this cloaking technology. So if you look up, look up B-A-E-Selfth tank. tanks. So they have these polychromatic. This is the earlier version of this. This is a very, a different version.

So they use these polychromatic hexagon panels. BAE is what? BAE is British Aerospace. Okay. Or something like it's BAE. Right. It used to be Marconi.

Believe it or not. Look at that tank. Look at the, click on the one with the guy standing next to it. Right right there. Holy shit. Look at that thing, dude.

It's like a Tesla tank. Yeah. So those hexagon panels on the side of it can change the color and all they can also, they change color to make it like visual camouflage, but they can also change heat signature with infrared. So look at that image with where the tank is in the infrared, the infrared one in the middle on the bottom. Oh, right there, yeah. So that's the tank and then it activates the panels and it looks like an SUV out there from the heat signature because it changed. changes, it cools the other panels and heats the other ones up. Oh, wow. Yes, it's, I don't know what BAE actually stands for.

I thought it stood for like British Aerospace. It's like the British version of Lockheed or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, by the way, you know where Britain's Area 51 is? No. Port and Down. What's the significance of Port and Down? Port and down is where the area, that's Britain's Area 51.

That's where they do all their classified, you know, aerospace and physics research. What country do you think has the most sophisticated? U.S., definitely. U.S. Yeah, we definitely have the other countries beat. What makes you think that? What makes you sure about that?

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And also our electronics. I mean, they produce all of our cutting. edge electronics. In fact, the Pentagon's put out reports about, you know, warning us about how, you know, we don't catch up to China soon. We're going to have real problems because, you know, even with the computer issue with all the computers, the Pentagon's computers, you know, that you can't find, you can't buy a computer anywhere that doesn't have a Chinese chip in it or a Chinese manufacturer. So, so like, they're finding all these hardware problems with these little tiny chips that have these call home functions or other things. They're built into these

circuit boards that are contacting Chinese servers and sharing information. You know, so like they have all these problems and holes and it's like a crisis right now in the Pentagon to try to get our own manufacturing infrastructure for integrated electronics and computer chips and stuff going here so that we don't have to be so reliant on China and for this kind of stuff. But also as far as like, you know, some of these, you know, some of these, you know, lyrton condensates and all that, you know, entanglement and those type of technologies is way more papers that I find in the academic literature from Chinese universities than I do from

the American universities, which is, you know, disturbing because it's like we're not spending enough time and we're not taking this seriously enough and looking into it enough. And China is. And if we don't pay attention soon, they're going to be, they could be decades ahead of us within, you know, a short period of time. But as far as, you know, as far as the actual development of it and application of it. The U.S. has done more as far as I'm aware. I mean, this stuff that I know about that the U.S. has done, and I've no, I mean, I don't know how I'd know about China doing any of it, but there's obviously a lot of espionage

going on. So the Chinese are, they copy everything. We do. Right. That's a whole other issue. So I want to tie this back into these. So you have all these spoofing technologies. You have all these, you know, technologies that can be used to fake, you.

UFOs and different confused for UFOs. Right. Then you have the issue that there might be real UFOs out there. Of course, you know, I like to think of the prime directive interpretation of, you know, why the solution to the Fermi paradox. So like this, all this statistics and stuff say that aliens should be out there. Why aren't they contacting it? Why don't we see them? Right.

Where are they? And I like the zoo, zoo hypothesis is my favorite. you know, it's called the zoo hypothesis that we're being, we're being, we're like a zoo and and they're just observers, but they're hidden from us so we can't see them. They, they keep themselves hidden. Yeah. They, they, they, they're, they kind of watch. Yeah, it's like almost there, it's like they're, they're mocking us or messing with us to the point where like when you think of UFOs, they are, they show themselves enough to where they can convince the person willing to believe, but they can't convince the skeptic. Right. Right. Right. And,

The other thing is that in Star Wars. There's no actual, like, there's no real solid evidence of it, right? Like, there's just that little bit they give you. Right. And, well, it's, so the Star Trek, in Star Trek, they have this thing called the Prime Directive. One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek is called Who Watches the Watchers? And it's about them watching this Bronze Age civilization. And one day their invisibility cloak malfunctions and fails.

and someone from the Bronze Age civilization discovers their outpost and sees them. And then so he goes back and starts telling, you know, all the villagers about what he saw. And so they want to kind of correct him and they show him. They bring him up on the spaceship

and try to show him a couple things and explain stuff to him and then send him back. And it just, you can see the details, as he tells it to all the villagers, it just morphs into a religion and all these other things. Very quickly from,

from, you know, his experience of his interaction with these higher beings. And it just, and then they set up this thing, well, it's the prime directive. We shouldn't have any contact with non-warp civilizations. So, you know, once you discover warp drive and you can open up the cosmos, then, you know, then we'll make contact. But pre-warp civilizations, we don't make contact with. And I like, I like that.

I like that idea very much. And there's no proof or, you know, evidence for it. I just, I think that's the one that. resonates with me the best and obviously resonated well with Gene Roddenberry as well. Anything that we can't understand something that's way too advanced for us, we think of it just to be God. You know, like there's all those famous paintings from the Renaissance era where there's these paintings depicting a UFO. There's a famous, what is it, Ezekiel in the Bible? Ezekiel's wheel, yeah. Ezekiel's wheel. Yeah. Yeah, the wheel and the ring of fire in the sky.

Again, if you were seeing a light craft that was being propelled by, you know, trapped in light energy, how would you describe it? Right. God. A ring of fire. Sounds like God. Yeah. A lot of the angels stories sound like, too. One of the things I want to say about aliens and species and stuff.

Yes. I made like a video back in the day where I talked about this idea that just imagine that we had, you know, gene editing technology where we could go. and you know change anything we wanted. And we wanted to create a perfect spacefaring race because we're not really built for outer space, man. You know like astronauts who go into space for a long time have lots of problems. So we're not like, we're built for, we're built for Earth. Not even outer space, just like outer orbit.

Yeah, outer orbit. Like the stuff that happens. So imagine we were going to re-engineer our bodies and make some adaptations, you know. So let's add some chlorophyll to our. skin so that, you know, we don't have to eat. We can just use sunlight. And let's, you know, we'll make our eyes way better at seeing, you know, we can add some more spectrum, you know, we can expand that actual color spectrum of what we see, you know, did you know that there's pit vipers that can see infrared? And there's also butterflies can see like high ultraviolet, like a whole

other range of frequencies that we can't. And birds can too, like flowers and other stuff look different to insects and birds and stuff than they do to us. Different colors show up different ways and, and whatnot. So imagine we could like incorporate all that into our eyes. So we make our eyes really big

so they can, you know, see really well in the dark and low space and also see really good. Could edit our voice blocks, you know, make it so that we can make any animal sound or any noise or any, you know, you know, you know, stuff like that. You could edit and just gene code.

And eventually you'd end up with something that looks like an alien gray, you know, like big eyes and green skin and, you know, all these things. So suction cups on the ends of the fingers was another interesting thing they described because if you're going to manipulate things in space, you want to be able to do it with one finger. And all you need is a suck. If you have an octopus suction cup on the end of your finger, it's really easy to pick stuff up and move it around. That was another interesting thing that was Yeah I'm sure you're familiar with the Rua Zimbabwey UFO Yeah that Zimbabwe UFO

Where there was I think 60 school children The aerial school Aerial school in Zimbabwe Yeah there are 60 school children Who all reported a very similar incident Of these crafts that landed outside of the playground And these beings that came out And then like communicated with them telepathically

that's interesting and they all had um the the uh harvard psychologist psychiatrist john mac went there and he interviewed all of the kids separately and they all they didn't have like perfect um their stories weren't like perfectly similar but they were they varied a little bit right like they each had a different experience but it was all generally the same they all they all they all said that they when they looked into these things eyes, they had this feeling or thought of technology is bad. Hmm. And they said that they never talked and they never made a sound,

but they were all standing there talking, like looking at them. And when they looked into their eyes, they had this sort of like telepathic communication experience with these things about like the future of technology. And all, and there were 60 of them. And it's been,

it's one of the, most mind-blowing, like, close encounters in history of the world. Yeah. Because there's so many witnesses. And the kids, even to this day, they still recall it. They still, like, vividly can recall what happened. Yeah, I remember that case. It's a super interesting case.

And I've seen, like, a lot of the skeptics, you know, takes on it. We're like, oh, we could fake this, you know, let's see how many school children think this really. We could fake an incident and then see how many school children would actually believe it happened and other stuff, too. you know, there are some technologies out there that can actually beam voices in your head, voice of God technology. Right. I've heard of this.

It's called microwave auditory effect. It was discovered in the late 1960s with certain frequency of microwaves can create a clicking sound in your ear. There are different noises in your ear. And then they can actually create multiple clicks and then modulate the clicking frequency and the noise to actually, you know, modulate voices and other signals into your, using it. They could actually beam voices inside, you know, inside your ear.

But that's not telepathically. You'd actually be physically hearing that. You wouldn't be like thinking it and feeling that in your head. Right. That's another level of technology. You know what I mean? That's something different. If you're like, you know, getting a message in your brain directly beam to you,

that's different than, you know, these technologies that we have. You know, that's different than voice of God. These were like, these kids described them as feelings. or like images in their minds. Not any kind of like audio. There's no audio. It's interesting. There's so many of them that show up and kind of like, you know,

the kids that say that they were taken on board and shown this like rapid collage of images of the human race and like all the bad things and stuff that technology is brought and stuff. And there's other ones that have said like, oh, the aliens have warned us that they're us from the future and that we're going to screw up our genetic code and end up like them and not be able to get back and weird stuff like that.

And I think that's kind of scary considering, you know, what we're doing now with some of the experimental, you know, technologies in bio, in biology in general. I think it's like MRNA. So MRNA can edit. It's like a genes like CRISPR and they can edit your genes and now they can do it through your food. They can put stuff in your food that you can

absorb through your digestive system that will actually activate, you know, and change your RNAs. So they're talking about this. They're talking about this in articles about, you know, saying that people who don't get the vaccine will be able to just put it in the food, you know, now. Really? Did you ask Brett about this? No, I didn't. I didn't, but I should.

I didn't learn about this until afterwards. But yeah, that's, I thought that was like kind of crazy, man. That would be good. That would be a good one. I should ask Brett to talk. Do you think there's any possibility that these things, these gray, aliens. It seems like that these seem to be the common depiction. I always wonder like who was the first person to come up with this idea of this being. And, you know, I always think, I always wonder, you know,

especially when you think about alien civilizations and, you know. Also the tall grays. There's the short little mini, the mini ones, the three foot or four foot ones. Then there's also the the reptilians apparently. Do you think there's any possibility that this could be us from the past? And it's just like a super advanced version of us that somehow got off the planet? Yeah, that's another theory too. It's like the breakaway civilization theory. Right. You know, it's something else that got away and then went, you know, light years into the future

in a different timeline or something. Could be. Again, I don't think we know enough about the physics at this point to really, to tell one way or another. I mean, there's guys that are saying, well, if you have warp drive, you have time travel, and then you have time travel. on, but then I just look at time travel like, well, if I can just go back and edit any event that ever happened, then what's reality? Because I can just go back and, you know, just change it.

Right. So then you get into a whole existential, you know, argument and debate there once you get into if you believe in time travel or not. Because, and I don't believe in time travel in that sense. I think that, you know, it's allowable within the realm of physics, but you have to understand that the universe is what's called a discrequent. event system. And in control theory, a discrete event system is a system where discrete events happen independently and of one another and sort of tangential and then cross-influence one another,

like the universe works. And that's how everyone works in this universe, I believe, is that it's a discrete event system. And that in order to reverse time globally, you'd have to reverse the time in all of those discrete events. And you can only do time reversals on individual discrete events. I don't think it's possible to do a complete group time reversal on all these discrete events

because they, I just don't see it as being possible. And I wish I was more good with, I wish I was better with the mathematics to be able to prove that with like some kind of theory or something, but I'm not. Right.

Someone else might be and be able to do that. But, you know, I, that's the issue of time travel. if they're beans from the future and stuff. I don't necessarily believe that. Although if, you know, like, because you can go further into the future, like Buzz Lightyear, you know, every time he goes further into the future,

but he can't go back. You know, you can go far into the future. You can stay young and go into the future if you stay traveling at light speed forever. Right. Well, you can't go back before the time travel was created. Yeah. Right?

Like, you can go from whenever we figure out time travel, we can go from then on, we can travel forward. and backwards, but we can't go before we figured out time travel. Yeah, and that's related to that whole event, yeah, the system of events and causality and everything if you get into the time cones and the Penrose charts and diagrams and all that stuff. So that's some interesting, interesting physics, interesting takes on physics.

But as far as, you know, explaining all the UFOs, I don't think that our scientific, are there yet as far as our classified programs because I've seen what you know they're working on the classified programs I've seen what DARPA is throwing money at and uh if they had these things they wouldn't be wasting their time you know what I mean if they had figured this out in the 50s and they had warp drives and anti-gravity they wouldn't be wasting their time giving you know a couple million dollars to Mike McCulloch to look into you know quantized inertia they wouldn't be interested you know they wouldn't be doing the other research they're doing it maybe they would just to throw people off. I don't know. It's it's a hard game to play, but you're looking at the real

scientists and you have to work with what's out there because at the end of the day, I mentioned on Brett's podcast that who do the government go to for answers on UFOs at the end of the day? They're asking the scientists. Right. You know? So even if the government is an authority on this and takes authority, at the end of the day, they're talking to the scientists and maybe there's some, you know, scientists out there that are more privy in access to the information and have more data sets that aren't available to the public. And that's what I'm concerned with and whether those data sets can be made available to the public or not or whether they should. And, you know, I've kind of gone through that stuff and deep on this path looking for those answers. And I'm reporting

on everything that I find. So who or what do you think is responsible for these Nimitz and East coast UFOs. They're so close to our military ranges and our military centers of these technologies and these, you know, SoCal test range and Camp Pendleton right there, you know, Catalina Island on the West Coast. And then Norfolk, Virginia, there's, you know, military base right there, BAA systems and a bunch of stuff. It just seems more plausible to me that it's some kind of our own technology that we're running or testing or doing stuff with. But didn't you just say you thought it wasn't that we were not there yet oh that stuff i this is what we're seeing i don't think is warp drive technology i don't think we're seeing oh okay you're talking about different okay i see i'm talking

about yeah that what as i mentioned is warp drive techno like the ability to go interstellar or okay or maybe but you do so these these things that are flying these modern UFOs that we've been seeing in the past 20 years you think that those are those how are those being propelled how what is the means of propulsion with those, do you think? If they're actual craft and not just like the laser-induced plasmas and holograms and stuff like that, if they're actual craft, then they're probably drones. You know, it was interesting. I did a lot of research into craft and found a lot of drone research connected to this

stuff. In fact, if you read Lewis Wittins, he did an interview on American Institute of Physics with, and I. I read it, and he talks about this work that he did with Martin Mary at a corporation. He says that in 1947, the first job that he was hired to work on out at Martin Mary at a corporation was pilotless aircraft. You know, and not just that, but like control and guidance systems for them and stuff. So it's super interesting that back in the 40s, you know, you have this guy working on this and this classified program. and then he's he's also can you know the guy they picked to look into anti-gravity a couple years later

this I thought that that's super interesting because there's a big overlap with a lot of this you know pilotless UAP and drone technology and this there's so much of it you find like for instance a company that merged with them later was called Teledyne Ryan and Teledyne Ryan did a number of these craft they were you know, triangular UFOs, a lot of the triangular UFO sightings, I now believe, were Teledyne Ryan's craft in their research that they were doing

back in the 70s and 80s. They had developed this craft called the TR3A Black Manta, and it was a little flying triangle wing, black triangle. And people were seeing these things all around. UAV drone technology, I just haven't seen anything in video

And again, I point out, and Brett asked me a good, great question. I was just thrown for a loop because, you know, is there any video evidence that you do find, like, super convincing? You know, and I'm not interested in video evidence because, you know, the skeptics aren't convinced by it. And I pointed out that, you know, 1993 had that one video that looked cool with the crop circles and the UFO that made the crop circles. But 1993 is also. I'm not familiar with that video. There was a video that apparently this guy had a success. camera set up watching the field and caught a UFO, made a crop circle and stuff.

It went viral on the internet a ways back. Was it like Skinwalker Ranch? No, but I pointed out that 1993 is when Jurassic Park came out. So they create fake looking real dinosaurs in movies. Yeah, I don't trust anything I see in video. It can be so easily with the, with CGI. I said anything before 1993, which is like the quality of film from back then, every UFO video is like crap.

You know, probably the best UFO footage that I would say exists if I were, if I really had to think about it and go back is actually the Mariana UFO footage from the 1950s because it's from the 1950s. Right. And it's just, it's just an interesting case. So that's the Mariana, M-A-A-N-I-A case. And that's interesting because Dennis Mariani or it's Mariana is the, yeah. And sorry, I'm getting the spelling run because I'm thinking two things at once because

Bob Lazar said his his boss at Area 51 was Dennis Mariani. Oh, okay. And we've never been able to find Dennis Mariani. They never tried, they got, apparently got Mike Figpin and tracked him down, although I haven't seen the evidence for that. But apparently, who is this guy? This is Nick Mariana. Okay.

So this is Mariana, one of the oldest and most famous UFO cases from, you know, the 1950s in Montana. He recorded this early UFO footage. Mm-hmm. And this is, you know, one of the, because you can't, by the time video started getting good, that's when also when CGI started getting good. So, man, it's like, how do you lie on a trust anything? Right. This is the film in double frame or slow motion. look like tic-tacks, right?

Yeah. The movement of the objects as well as the towers perceptible. This is due to the handheld camera. The film, analyzed frame by frame, shows the movement of the object to be horizontal and steady. We will now vary the action and size of the objects and also stop the action from time to time for your study. We have just made a jump cut in the film to an enlarge size and reverse the action. Yeah, it's, again, it's early UFO footage. This is probably taken on a 8mm, you know.

Yeah, some of the early stuff really boggles my mind because there's a lot of pilots that have records, you know, that have reports and there's accounts of these pilots seeing these things. Like there was a case in the 50s with the swarm of UFOs that were close to the White House. Yeah, yeah. They went past the White House. They scrambled planes and jets to go, like, track them down. There was even a guy who I think shot at one of them. Yeah, right. There's lots of like Lonnie Zamora.

Yeah, the police officer. The police officer who saw the thing they came and they saw like they actually found the marks in the ground where they thought that thing where they saw where he saw that saucer had landed. You know, there's just so many old cases that just scramble my brain when I'm trying to think of this new stuff. Like, why don't we see that old stuff anymore? We don't like we don't see any of those traditional flying saucers. Saucers is Michael Schrat has like a whole archive of all those cases and stuff and he draws like the foot the the the the the you know the pictures of them and stuff and he talks about the cases and it's it's kind of curious how the stories the technology kind of coincides with the literature

of the era so like the the UFOs of the 1950s and 60s look more like buck rogers you know and UFOs of today and stuff look you know more more like uh you know i guess like star star star trekker or something, you know, like something more modern. So like the, these things have developed and, you know, on their own too, which also kind of leads me to the conclusion that these are our replications of these technologies and maybe they fly on some, you know, different principles or something. Maybe they were experimenting with some neat new technology during the time. Because we had a space program, bro.

Like I went to, up to, they had the whole man on the moon exhibit up in Boston. and I went to it with, I took my kids. And when I went to that Man on the Moon exhibit, they had all the stuff from the space program. And I was just, I was, I was like, I felt like the, like, I was like going over more stuff than they had on the plaques and telling more history about everything than they were telling on all the plaques and stuff. And I just was like astonished at this,

this whole period there from like 1945 to 1958 that they just completely left out. You know, they said like, oh, well, just 1958. You know, we started NASA and we had a space program. No, we had a secret space program for like a decade and a half before that became NASA. And then we had NACA and a bunch of other organizations that, you know, were running a lot of these, you know, programs and stuff like Ames Research Labs and the Ames scientists and stuff. And that's fascinating because you look at the Beifeld Brown case, right? guy was discovered this effect in 1928 was trying to like get it out there and talk about it finally met with some people from the military gave a whole presentation on it in the 1940s they

told him he was crazy go home and then they went and hired a bunch of aim scientists to do the research instead and you know so that that's just the kind of what they do in the public domain they ridiculed it discredited it in the public domain then they threw this guy to the curb said you're ridiculous this doesn't work and there's nothing to it and then they went and funded a research study into it with some of their own scientists behind the scenes so so this seems to be like a recurring theme and a lot of these you know topics like you know cold fusion came up in the in the 80s and they you know debunked it very thoroughly in the mainstream press and uh with some experiments and then it kind of disappeared and and um but they've been

research they've been you know the spay war in the u.s. navy still researching cold fusion to this day so so like they're still looking into it even though they covered it up and suppressed it and they didn't want it to get out it's it's almost like what it seems but then there's also egos involved with a lot of the people that that jumped on board from both sides as well so so there's a cold fusion's a whole whole other uh interesting animal of itself what is cold fusion so cold fusion uh is now i guess a lot the scientists like to call it L-E-N-R or lattice-assisted nuclear reaction or low-energy nuclear reaction. And it's this idea that, you know, normal fusion, what you have is the Coulomb barrier.

And the Coulomb barrier is the force between, you know, two nuclei. And as you try to move the nuclei together, the positive charges repel and they push each other apart. So the harder you try to push them together, the more they push apart. And there's this barrier that if you can push them together with enough force and energy, you can get them to stick together and get a little bit extra energy out of it because the mass, the mass drops and some of that mass gets released as energy that's a conversion equals MC squared. Right. So you get a little bit of that mass out as energy from the fusion process.

But pushing these things to the cool and barrier is very difficult. You got to use these, you know, magnetic bottles like the Itar or the Takamok reactors and stuff. And or you have to use in the sun a lot of gravity and a lot of, you know, heat. So the heat gets these molecules going really fast and the gravity pushes them really close together. So their quantum mechanical behavior of them moving really fast, plus being in close proximity allows for the tunneling through that cool,one barrier and allows for fusion. Although we're not exactly quite sure how that process takes place, even on the sun, you know, this debate about that. So, but in these low energy nuclear reactions, what you're having is, is the first experiment that Pons and Fleischman did is they packed a ton of deuterium. So, deuterium is hydrogen with an extra neutron.

So it's heavy. It's heavy. It doesn't change the atomic number. It just changes the weight of it. So it's a little, it's like hydrogen, but it's extra heavy. And then they pump that into a lattice of palladium using electricity. So they have the deuterium in heavy wall. water and solution. And then they charge the water and then charge the cathode. And so like the deuterium and all the molecules get absorbed into the cathode and they get packed into this

lattice structure of the metal. And as they get packed into the lattice structure of the metal, they become really, really close to one another. And something about that in the physics of that lattice structure, once they get to about a 94% loading, they start to. to see these fusion effects in the cathodes. And this has been confirmed by a number of labs and a number of scientists who have replicated and done this research and have been trying to figure out ways to extract usable energy from it.

And so far no one's done that. But there's a big debate and controversy over it. And there has been for 30 years now since the 1980s when Pons and Fleischman first went forward with that discovery. It was highly criticized because they wanted, they thought that it would get shut down, so they wanted to create a press conference to get the, you know, information out there. And so they were criticized heavily for doing science by press conference instead of science

by the academic and peer review method. But as science has shown in the 30 years past, that method and that, you know, approach has failed tremendously in science. It has failed science tremendously. In fact, before we created these journals and all this, this sort of stuff, there was a much more free in open science and people were more free to experiment and create new ideas. But we've sort of, with this peer review process and this method, we've stifled a lot of,

a lot of new thinking and new ideas and, you know, enforced a lot of old, And we've seen that happen through science and history with like plate tectonics or the piltdown man or other other scientific discoveries or revolutions or controversies So it's interesting what's happening in science right now. I don't necessarily believe that peer review is all bad It's good to have you know people who are on your level and do the work you do reviewing your work But I also see how it could be used manipulatively in certain situations. So I like what we're doing we're kind of have this open source disclosure approach where we're trying to just put the information out there just to get it out there.

And then we have the experimental side where we try to, you know, verify or get results with it. And that's also open source so that, you know, get the information out there a little bit easier. Because, again, you're dealing with this massive secrecy and this wall of information where you're trying to get data and trying to sort that out from the crap. You know, where's the noise and where's the signal? You know, because some of this stuff is real and can be used for real things and some of it can.

What are the limitations of that? Like, how good is it? And how well does it explain this or that? Yeah, this is an open field, man. And I look at like what's going on in the mainstream media. And to bring technology and not include technology in this conversation, is a sin. Entertainment is a huge driver of this topic, right?

There's so much money in the documentaries and the history channel TV shows. Yeah. That just attract the layman to just be, you got to add in the drama to get normal people interested in this stuff, right? You can't just talk about particle physics and photons and neutrons. No, lose everyone. You're probably lost half your audience. No, I guarantee you. that's not true.

But for the lame, for the, for the average, I hope they're looking it up and trying to like, learn more about it and stuff. So, because I am too,

man. For the average working class person that's sitting at their, you know, in their living room in bum fucked Montana that are watching the history channel about Skinwalker Ranch

or about, you know, Bob Lazar Area 51. That's another interesting thing. It's like infotainment, right? So it's information, but it's dramatized.

and it's turned into a TV, a piece of art, like a movie, to make people, to draw people in. But what's good about that is, it brings more money into the topic. Yeah. It creates an economy. Who's getting that money?

Well, no matter who's getting, it doesn't matter who's getting, even if it is the TV company is getting the money. It's creating an economy around this topic, which I think is only going to draw in more people to this topic, right? It's going to, that will essentially, drive more interest, more people like you, you know, more people even younger than you

who are just going to see a podcast like this one day and decide to dedicate the rest of their lives to studying physics and just figuring out how this shit works. I mean, that's what, that's what I dreamed of. And I, you know, what's awesome is that I started my channel in 2008 and I've gotten to see the people that, like, started watching me early on, go through, you know, go through undergraduate. And then, you know, some of them have gone through grad school. And seeing people that like got inspired by, you know, me talking about this kind of stuff to go and study physics on their own. And some of them, you know, come back to me and they're like, you know, thank you or years later. I even have, you know, grad students and PhDs and stuff that, that like, dude, thank you for this or that.

You know, like, I have people that wrote their PhD thesis based on stuff that they learned about on my channel, which is like, that's awesome, bro. Because that that is where we need this to be. And that gives me so much hope for the future because. if we don't have people thinking about these things critically and really understanding, you know, our universe and the science and the technology that's out there, we're not going to ever be able to figure this stuff out. And if we're just diving into this world where we're mixing it with the paranormal and, you know, werewolves and dino beavers and all this other stuff, I think we lose a lot of that, a lot of that, like the ghosts and stuff. And that stuff's

cool. And I see how some people are just like, are drawn to those topics because there is so much mystery and intrigue. What do you think about Robert Bigelow? Speaking of ghosts. Bob Bigelow. Bob Bigelow is interesting guy. He's super interested in the UFO topic, and he's got a ton of money. So that's kind of how he got into it.

He's always been fascinated by. Did you watch his interview with Joe Rogan? Yeah, I watched it with his interview with Joe Rogan and then once he did with George Knapp. He's talking about like this remote viewing technology. He's talking about poltergeist and his house. I mean, he got sucked it into a lot of like real crazy, weird stuff. I think, unfortunately, you know, a lot of that stuff is tied up in these programs, too, is, I believe, counterintelligence to sort of like, you know, just confuse and muddy the waters

and confuse the issues and then also mix up the alien stuff with, you know, just nonsense so that people, you know, scientists and other people don't take the other stuff. cattle mulations. Yeah, the cattle mutilations is another thing. I brought that up on Brett's podcast, and I talked about the Mirage Men thing, and I had a bunch of people like, you know, talking about different ideas on that, you know, why wouldn't the military just pay for the cattle? You know, why wouldn't they just buy it or, you know, like, well, obviously they can't,

you know, directly be buying the cattle. They don't want people to know. So they can set up a front company or something else, you know, easily. They do it all the time to just buy the cattle. So if you've, if any, for, let's. kind of like lay some context to this. Yeah, okay. Sorry, I'm just jumping into that.

People haven't seen that. So this is a movie called Mirage Men. And this, in Mirage Men, they kind of did this investigation into this cattle mutilation thing where they talk about this operation, or project plowshare, it was called. It was a series of nuclear tests that they did underground during the time. And so they were burying these noops deep in the ground like broken. arrow where they'd huge mining tunnel

sent a nuke down there on a train and blow it off and then they were trying to monitor the spread of the radioactivity to see if they were contaminating groundwater and other things. So apparently they were

the ones abducting these cattle or taking these cattle and cutting the thyroid glands out in order to test the thyroid thought your thyroid has iodine in it and has an uptake of iodine. So if there's radioactive iodine that's produced from nuclear

fallout or from a blast, it's going to end up in the environment and it's going to get picked up up immediately by your thyroid gland. That's why a lot of people develop thyroid cancer from the radioactive iodine that your thyroid gland absorbs. So one way to test how this contamination is getting out into the environment is to take local animals and cut out their thyroid glands and test the iodine levels for the radioactive isotope. And so if you're going to do this and you don't want the public to know about it, you might, you know, cut out other things like their tongues and their eyeballs and their livers and you might drop them from helicopters and do other weird things, apparently. This is what they alleged in the Miragemen interview that the military was doing to cover up for

the fact that they were just, you know, testing for this underground nukes and they didn't want, you know, people to know about the radiation and what was really going on. And it's all a big cover story for nuclear tests and medical examinations of farming. animals that they didn't want to just buy and pay for. It seems kind of crazy and elaborate, you know, a lot of people have pointed that out and stuff, you know, and, you know, Linda Moulon Howe was the researcher that, you know, researched a lot of this. Bob Bigelow knew Linda Mouln Howe. I heard that they had dated for a while, but people attacked me and said that was never confirmed

and his wife is, you know, about that. I don't know what the deal is. Robert Bigelow was married and stuff, so I don't know what the whole relationship with him and Linda Moulton Howe was. But for some reason, Bigelow decided to, you know, pay Linda Moulton's house rent for five years so that she could investigate these cattle mutilations and get to the bottom of that. And, of course, she, you know, concluded that it was aliens doing it. And, you know, that would have been perfect if it was that plowsher narrative.

Other people have pointed out some, you know, interesting things. Maybe I agree. It would have been easier for them to create a front company and just buy out the cattle. You know, that seems like a much more, you know. Drainning them. I mean, there's like, they've, some of these farmers found their cows with all the blood drained out of them. Yeah. Like, like ridiculous.

Yeah. Stacked on top of each other. It's interesting because I've, I've talked to a couple. One of the guys I met out in Colorado when I lived there was Chuck Zukowski. and he's got the license plate UFO nut for Colorado, and he's investigated. He's a police officer, actually. He's like law enforcement training,

and he did a number of these cattle mutilation investigations out there. And he's got some interesting views on that stuff too. And, you know, again, it seems plausible that if I was an alien visiting here, that I would take genetic samples from, you know, what are they eating? Oh, they eat these things? Let's see what they're made of, you know? It just makes sense that they, you know, if aliens came here, they would collect those kinds of things and take data, you know, they would take, you know, they would harvest organs and harvest,

you know, look at we eat cows. What are they made out? What's going on with these people? You know, it just seems like something that aliens would do. So, you know, again, it's one of those things that kind of confuses and baffles me as well. Because, you know, you can come up with these skeptical, plausible alternative explanations for things but then you know those kind of seem a little bit outlandish in and of themselves too sometimes you know when you consider the other things that they've done to cover up stuff it's quite easy to

create a front company and buy a bunch of cows you know like and and not have to create this whole elaborate scheme but then again when you have uh someone like linda out there creating it for you again i pointed out that that's the easiest way to do disinformation is to find someone else who's already confused or misinformed and just prop them up and let them promulgate it. And you'll find very often that, you know, organic misinformation works the best because it's what people already believe. And that's one of the reasons I think Skinwalker Ranch was chosen as a location for, some of this stuff. Because of all the legends that it was this place that's haunted and, you know, abatited by spirits, you know, these stories from the Native Americans about the place.

But it's interesting because a lot of the stuff that seems to be going on out there sounds like some of this electronic warfare technology, like the spoofing technology, the laser holograms or the voice in the ear. You know, some of the stuff that these people have seen out there sounds a lot like some of these technologies, to me anyways, is my skeptical, rational explanation of trying to, you know, come up with explanations for this stuff. And it reminds me of this place. I don't know if you've ever heard of Camp Hero before. Yes, I have heard of that. So Camp Hero is this facility out on the end of Montauk Island, and Montauk is Long Island, New York. So right on the tip of Long Island is Camp Hero.

You can look this up, and there's this radar station, and there's this whole military facility that was out there. And do you watch Stranger Things? Yes. So episode one, you remember like the first season of Stranger... Season one, sorry. The first season of Stranger Things, they have that facility out on the end of the island.

It's out, and the government runs it, and it's this whole setup out there. Yeah, where they have, like, that hole that goes into the upside down, is that you're talking about? Yeah, and they're doing all this research out there into this crazy, weird stuff. That's based. And they're all Russians.

That's based on Montauk. That's based on Camp Hero. The real story, it's based on a real story of the research that went on out on the end of Long Island and the rumors that would go on around people who live near there because, you know, you'd take a ride at night, and stuff and go down on the island and realize, oh, there's a military base and I can't get down there. And what the heck are they doing out there? And there's weird stuff going on because

they have this really large high power radar tower that was set up out there that could that could do a lot of interesting things. And this is right around the time they were researching Project Rainbow and doing a lot of the EMF response technology. So there's a whole other subsection of that, I believe, that was handled under MK Ultra where they were specifically looking for EMF responses and biological systems. So they're looking for signals that can affect biology. So, and if you look this up, you can actually, if you go to I-N-I-R-P.org, okay, there's a whole organization, I-C-N-I-R-P.org.

And there's a whole organization that does research into radiation and harmful effects, okay you look at the ERM yeah so the RF EMF guidelines so there's a whole report that they publish every year this report is very interesting because you can get this it's a couple hundred pages the bibliography of this report is is key if you want to research this kind of stuff because in that bibliography of that report you're going to find every single study that's ever been done on frequencies that interact with biological systems like the bad frequencies that fuck up your biology, basically. And there's a lot of them, apparently.

You know, you get the right frequency, the right amplitude. You can do things in the human body. And they're different for different people, because we all have different biogeometrics and stuff. Right. The resonant frequency might be a little bit different for your pituitary gland than it is for mine because yours might be a little bit different shape or size.

So they have to tune these things specifically, but I believe that, you know, if they did an EMF project with Project Rainbow to study all the EMF responses and the materials and different arrangements of materials, and they had to have done one with biological systems. And MK Ultra, again, there's a lot of subprojects. There was over 100 something 68, maybe 100 something subprojects of MK Ultra. And in it, you'll find one of them where they looked into some of the stuff, these frequencies that would interact with biosephemy. biological organisms. And I think that that's the research that they started out on Camp Hero in Montauk, Virginia. And then they needed a place to move this research, you know, because rumors were going around and other things were, you know, it was just causing too much problems

where it was. So they needed to look for a new home for that. And if I were, you know, doing electronics warfare and that kind of research and I needed a new home for something like that, Skinwalker Ranch would be my number one choice. Do you know why? Why? Because everything could be blamed on all the legends and all the paranormal stuff that has the history of it. Yeah, but what year are we talking again? What year are we talking when all this stuff was going on,

Project Rainbow and Camp Hero? That was like... And Project Rainbow started 58. 58. Right, 58. So throughout the 60s, maybe the 70s is when they shut down Camp Hero. So that's maybe a little bit of gap period of time for when Skinwalker Ranch was first, you know,

Bigelow bought it first. started running some of this stuff. And he brought in Nids and some of these other teams to run these investigations. And I think that, you know, Bigelow, working with these aerospace defense contracts, working close to, you know, with Bigelow Aerospace, trying to get into this stuff,

may have been involved in some of this research or contracts and stuff. That's my theory on Skinwalker Ranch is that it was Camp Hero 2.0, that they chose it as a place because of the paranormal history to run these experiments so that they, you know,

if anything got uncovered or got loose, they could just be like, well, it's ghosts and dino beavers and polter geists and stuff. And they could also use that to mix in a lot of the, I don't know, it just seems like a lot of counterintelligence

to me, because I can't make sense of it any other way. Well, it's like the number one show on History Channel now. So you think they're still doing it there? I don't, number one show on the history channel? Probably.

Jesus Probably I'm surprised I'm you know Nothing surprises me anymore But again I have not watched a single episode And I wait I've watched a couple

And I could I could barely get through one It was so cringe It is so hard to get It's so I watched a couple of technical explanations With you know Travis Taylor is their lead scientists And again this is a guy who

He's got a history of research With all this laser technology And laser induced plasma technology he's got papers written on this. He did a lot of research on this stuff. So he's connected. He's one of the guys that is connected to this stuff. So that makes me suspicious of the whole thing.

I don't know how. I talked about this before when I had James Fox on here. I told him that I think shows like that do this subject to discredit. I do too. I believe they do. Absolutely. I wouldn't have started my podcast if it weren't for shows like what I would watch. One of the ones I watched was Michelle.

Michi Oku back in like the early 2000s, he did this one of like the UF. Would the government recover a saucer and what would the technologies be that would be on it? And he talked about metamaterial. No, he talked about invisibility cloaks, but he never mentioned metamaterials. And I was like, come on, man, you're not like, how can you be assigned, like this top theoretical physicist and scientists talking about these things but not know about what's out there in the literature, what's already out there? Like, why are you not talking about this and this and this and this and this and this and this? coming out about quantum quantum entanglement?

What's his new? What's his new book? Google Michioku's next new book. I'll have to check that out, man. Because, you know, Kaku's an interesting. He's done a 180 on the UFO topic, but I really didn't like his stance

and what he said about the UFO topic. You know, he's like, now the burden of proof has shifted, you know? He said like, oh, it used to be on us to prove that these things, you know, but now we have to prove that these aren't real.

Like, no, that's nothing to do with what's going on, now. I just felt like, I don't know. Quantum supremacy, how the quantum computer revolution will change everything. Oh, that sounds interesting. Yeah. Kaku would be super, I would love to have a sit down conversation with him where we could just get into it, you know, on some of the stuff, man, because that, that would get super deep quick. If we could put a panel together with like Kaku, Weinstein Bob Lazar. Yeah, Bob Lazar has got to be on that. I don't, I guarantee you, and I'll bet you anything. He is like, he will not be on Joe Rogan ever again. You can mark my words,

and I'll bet you, I'll, I'll make a bet with you that he will not debate Weinstein, and he will not go on Joe Rogan again. I don't think he's going to, I think he's going to fade out of the public domain, you know. He just moved, he moved United Nuclear from Michigan to Oregon. He's got a new setup out there. He's got an 11-acre horse farm that he lives on with his wife out there now. And I think he's just going to retire and say, forget all this. I guarantee you. I just don't see it happening, bro. As much as I would love to see that, and it would be awesome.

My prediction right now is that he's going to fade out, and he's just going to drop out altogether. That's my prediction anyway. What is the biggest pushback that you get on this shit? Obviously, you have a lot of critics, and you have a lot of people attacking you for your positions on all this stuff. I mean, some people consider you a quote-unquote skeptic. dick but like what is the most prevalent pushback that you get well i mean i'm on twitter a lot so

ufo twitter is just notorious with these defenders of ttsa and when i i i spoke out about ttsa and some of my criticisms of them early on was ttsa so ttsa was to the stars academy oh and that was tom de long and you know chris mellon lew elizando and there was a cia guy Jim Semmivan. Semivan, yeah. Yeah. Hell put off a number of these other guys that all came forward and said that they were going to release, they were going to build a spaceship for us if we funded it and they were going to release free energy and anti-gravity technology. That was all in their like first press conference thing.

And, you know, I had been researching anti-gravity for, you know, 10 years at that point. And I was like, there is no effing way. and I was super, you know, vocal about that. I even started my own company to try to, you know, compete with them for, you know, who's going to make the real anti-gravity technology and who's going to release more, you know, real information about it. And I was just criticizing everything that they put out because they weren't talking about any physics, any real technology.

They were just making promises. They didn't even have a science division. They ended up shutting down the science division after they started and just focusing purely on the entertainment division. and I was just like, I predicted it all right from the start, and I, you know, I called it out, but I had tons of people just giving me all this backlash and then my questions about, you know, these guys and their credibility and what they're doing in UFOology and do we need them? Are they helping?

Yeah, they got a New York Times article. They got a bunch of attention to the subject. But what if the purpose was all to create a bunch of smoke and mirrors and then have it all get a ton of attention and then debunk it, you know? that would be like what I would do if I was the Pentagon and I wanted to run a sye op and get rid of all this stuff I would you know hire a bunch of guys pump it up hype it up a whole bunch of fake crap for as long as I could and then just until everyone got tired or burnt out or I debunked it all and you know and I really feel like the the when they pulled the plug fully was Super Bowl weekend with those those three UFOs

that were shot down in the same weekend and they were just like it's Chinese spy balloons Right. That was just like Roswell, you know, 1997 U.S. Air Force all over again. Yes. It was interesting about the U.S. Air Force. In 1997, they had the whole, you know, they released a new report on Roswell and they did this public press conference. And the opening line of that press conference, the first thing that the DOD says is, wow, look at all the people here. If only we could get this many people to, you know, pay attention to aerospace defense.

you know, we'd be doing something, you know, productive here, you know, so it's like, that right there was like, they must have realized, wow, this way too much, you know, we're not going to fight this. We have, you can't beat them. You have to join them. You know what I mean? At that point, they must have realized that you cannot, you cannot, like, your denials are just creating more contra, you know, when they came out with that report and then a year later

after that report, Corso publishes book the day after Roswell. I almost felt like that was disinformation or disinformation as well put out by the Air Force because the timing of it was just too close. And the technologies that Corso mentioned were none of the real technologies. And it was all technologies that I found had traceable sources to, you know, human inventors and human scientists who built and worked on these things. some of the other stuff is I've traced it to humans too

like the invisibility stuff and the meta materials it goes back to Project Rainbow and all that classified stuff they were working on and different EMF responses that they were observing in things so there's a lot of this that's just you think it's aliens because it seems like it came from nowhere

but it really came from these classified programs or these scientists who worked on it for their entire life and even it wasn't classified it's just obscurity so it's a scientist that worked on it and just nobody knows about it except, you know, very few people. So, yeah, one of the, I think one of the most impactful things, one of the most impactful quotes from your conversation with Eric was when you were talking about disclosure when it comes

to like New York Times and looking to like the biggest irony in this whole disclosure movement is that we deeply distrust, we deeply distrust authority while simultaneously looking at authority for verification of all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's a good point because that just brings it all full circles. Because who do you trust at the end of the day? And the only thing I trust is what I can verify, you know, with my own, you know, research or either experiment or evidence or something.

And, you know, some of the stuff is you just have to like accept it as a mystery and maybe you're never going to get to. the bottom of it. And some of it you have to, you know, think about outside the box that other people, other researchers before you haven't approached this topic or this problem the same way and haven't come up with the right solution. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you're looking at a UFO video and you're like, dude, we looked at a UFO video. We finally tracked it down to where the location was taken. Then we noticed that there's mountains in the backgrounds with all these, you know, motorcross trails. So it's what we're, they were actually filming. were dirt bikes going down the mountain on the motorcross trails.

And it looks like UFOs in the video. This is like all kinds of cases like that where you just have to step outside and get a little bit different way of thinking about things or a perspective. And then instantly things make sense. Right. Yeah.

What do you know about that guy Malcolm Bendahl who has been working with Randall for the past year on this plasma technology? I haven't seen any of his like, actual technology or his lab. I heard he's got a lab like in Malaysia somewhere and doing kind of tests and like experiments and stuff. I haven't got, you know, I contacted him on Twitter and tried to get like a little bit more

in with him and see, but he didn't seem real vocal or open with me, you know, and I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing. Sometimes, you know, if you got something high, you definitely don't want to talk to theoretical physicists and scientists because if you're, if you're pulling a, trying to pull a front, then you're going to get found out real quick. Right. So that's the same thing. I tell people who criticize Gary Nolan, you know, people like,

oh, you worked for the CIA and the CIA recruited him to study these brain, you know, injury victims to understand Havana syndrome. And that's how he got into all this. So you can't trust him because he worked for the CIA. But he's a scientist. And I don't, I think that more science, we need more scientists in this field. We need more scientists studying this. I think the more scientists, the better.

And if he is a disinformation agent and he's trying to spread, you know, misinfo to the scientific community, good luck. Right. Well, it's like, it's another, it's just another example of people like yourself, people like, you know, you're very similar in your field of physics to Ben Van Kurewick is to, like, this guy, he has a YouTube channel and he studies all this ancient high technology evidence in, in Egypt where the pyramids are. Like he has he has finds all this evidence of these precision, uh, cordrills and these precision saw cuts and these basalt stones.

Yeah. And he had to have iron. Yeah. Right. Like that's, and during the time where they say the pyramids were built, they had literally like stone tools and and iron chisels, right? And there's no way they could have copper chisels. Yeah.

That's what I meant. Copper chisels. Right. Yeah. And there's no way they could have created these perfectly symmetrical, perfectly square. 80 ton bricks of, of, I forget what the stone is, like basalt rock. It's like on the most scale of hardness. They're like some of the hardest rocks that exist.

That's another thing, right? So if you were an ancient civilization and say you did create a blast furnace and develop iron smelting and forging technology ahead of, you know, everyone else, wouldn't you keep it classified? Wouldn't that be like a highly classified military secret? That would be like, you know, to ancient Egypt, you know, figuring out iron smelting technology would be the equivalent of, you know, our hypersonic missiles. You wouldn't share that with your, anyone. You know, you wouldn't share it with even your, you know, citizens.

So it's easy to see how technologies like that could have gotten lost over time, like could have been discovered and then lost, you know. Yes. Yeah, I mean, there's been, there's been. Greek fire. There's evidence of cataclysms of massive floods of comic, comet impacts that created. global cataclysms that wiped out civilizations and there are extinction level events. And, you know, what modern academia says is that the Egyptians, 2,500 years ago, 2,500 years ago, they built the pyramids and they created everything that you see there today.

But with all the evidence of the technology they had, it's not possible. They were the ones that were drawing, that were carving those hieroglyphs with copper chisels. into the sides of those giant basalt obelisks. They weren't the ones that were actually moving those massive 20, 30, 80 ton. It's like we found them and we just did stuff to them. Exactly. Rather than we built them. It's the equivalent of like toddlers drawing with crayons on the side of a mausoleum.

You know what I mean? To say that these giant pyramids were created to be tombs. I think that a lot of that stuff's super interesting. You know, there's a lot of cool, you know, Egypt research and a lot of unsolved mysteries there. but back to like specifically the Malcolm Bendel, this Malcolm Bendal guy. I know that he did some stuff on Twitter with this periodic table that he created

where he like he arranged it in a circle and said that there's some, you know, significance to that. And I made a video where I showed all the different periodic tables including the real period, the real full periodic table, which is the chart of isomers. And that includes like all the isotopes. and all, like all the different, you know, arrangements of isotopes and isomers. So, like, the full chart.

And, you know, that's like the full periodic table. That's like when Gary Nolan says, you know, our regular periodic table, we're working with like, you know, 100 elements. But, you know, in between those, there's all these isotopes of each element. So they're working with like 250 in their building blocks, and rather than, you know, what we're working with. and why they need those might be, you know, is another issue of debate and stuff that I can get into.

Like, for example, they did, they took a different isotope of lithium and replaced it with, like, the regular lithium. And they found that, like, because of that isotope replaced basic functions in the brain that weird things happened because of the isotope. So there's functions in your brain that are clearly, you know, affected. by these spin relaxation times because that's the only thing that changes when you up the isotope is that spin rel that that laramore frequency are laramore procession so there's quantum mechanical processes that occur inside the brain this has been proven with the with the lithium

study in mice where they gave an isotope of lithium to the mice and they they behaved much differently than the ones with the normal lithium so there's obviously something going on here and with the physics and the science of these isotopes that create something, some of these effects. And again, I think it's definitely related to that spin relaxation time factor. But I think that Malcolm's got some, you know, interesting ideas. I'd like to talk to him more and get him on the show and really have, if he's got real science, I'm the place to do it, man.

Like, come on my podcast. Like, you can talk to a whole bunch of. people ask you really good questions and really like delve out your your ideas and uh get to the nuts and bolts if you've got something legit uh like it will be proven like i'll make sure like we're not just going to like fake debunk you and and make it and ridicule you and send you off like we're going to give you everyone a fair shot and and keep an open mind to stuff and if you're wrong about certain things we're going to point it out and like your periodic table is not the full periodic table and there's other there's other things in some of the stuff that he's put out where

I'm just like this looks like it's not the it's not the real story it's like a it's like a I don't know some of the stuff I pointed out already with with his stuff but again I haven't gotten the chance to speak with him directly or really look into his experimental work and research fully enough to get to that but just what I've seen of the theoretical basis stuff like that periodic table of elements he had with the circle chart. I mean, I don't, I think. What is he claiming? He's claiming that what he's discovered is a plausible

explanation of how sound was able to manipulate massive objects and move some of these massive objects in Egypt and like build the pyramids potentially. So they have sonic levitation. They've built sonic levitators that, you know, they'll levitate a golf, like a styro.

foam ball or something really lightweight, I've yet to see anyone levitate, you know, a silicone block or a sandstone block, you know, a piece of pyramid stone. I've yet to see that experiment done. You know, Nassim Harriman, a number of these other guys talk about how they've cracked the ancient Egyptian technology. Well, just show me how to lift the stone. Show me how to lift the rock and how to do that. Right. And I've heard lots of different theories and ideas on how it's done and how to do it. And, you know, this Waas scepter that the Egyptians had that had this, you know, like a tuning fork on one end that they supposedly resonated at a certain frequency.

And that could, you know, get the stones vibrating that would cause them to levitate. And well, someone's got to figure. If the ancient Egyptians figured it out with their primitive technology, man, why can't we do it in some of the labs we have and figure this out? Why do we get like teams and, you know, real PhDs and other kinds of people working on this stuff? And we haven't figured it out if it, you know, it's just, so I'm skeptical. Well, that's what Ben Van Kurek points out. He says it wasn't the ancient Egyptians. It was a civilization much before them.

Yes. With much higher advanced technology. And the ancient Egyptians simply inherited that stuff. Right. The technology was gone. Or New Zealandia, one of these ancient civilizations that. that structure and then the collapse and everyone moved to Egypt, you know, and then, you know, people like Randall and people like Graham Hancock that point all this stuff out, they just get like discredited and called, you know, racist like Graham Hancock was called a racist for some of the theories that he pointed out about ancient Egypt and the peer, how the pyramids were constructed. There's, there's these, these attempts to discredit them by labeling them on social media and portraying them as bad guys. And really all they're doing is paying more attention than anyone else.

And it goes against what modern academia and all the people that have... I can sympathize with some of those people because they're like, oh, how could brown people have built the pyramids? You know, that's racist, you know, to think that it... They're in Africa. The other thing I think is like the same thing I see with scientists all the time is like, I get pissed off because these scientists are not getting the credit and you're not getting the real education and not knowing the real knowledge. And you're just giving aliens all the credit for stuff and not getting a good. understanding of the science or anything that's going on because it was real scientists who worked and built the stuff like the transistor. Do you know who Walter Shotkey was? If you don't,

then you should look up, you know, what he did in his research and how it developed the solid state theory and group theory that led to what became the transistor of P-doped and end-doped, you know, silicates and stuff like that, the science that went into it. And you don't get an appreciation for that. And it's the same thing I look at with the pyramids, man. It's like, you're you're taking all this credit away from humans who humans have done some amazing and just a miraculous just awesome things and you're giving all that credit to something else or aliens or you know some advanced technology in a civilization maybe we're not thinking hard enough maybe we're not i don't know i get to also see on the other side is anyone who's been able to

show how you can lift stones and do all this with primitive technology and do it i like the idea the Grand Gallery being this cog mechanism where they walk the stones up, the Grand Galilee, there's a ramp where they actually, you know, drag the stones up for the final construction project. There's lots of cool theories on how they built the pyramids. I love that guy. Have you ever seen that guy that does all the concrete buckets? He moves all these super heavy objects by finding the center of mass and then balancing the

object on that center of mass and then just rotating it or spinning it different ways or just, you know, rocking it back and forth and putting, you know, lifting. a little bit of you lift this side, put a stick under, tip it back this way, put a stick under, lift it back this way, put a stick under. You can jack up like huge megoliths. Oh, no, I haven't seen that. What is this called? Look up like man shows how the pyramids were built or man moves heavy, enormous objects by himself. I think it is. There's some guy that he was fascinated by how they built the pyramids and he started. Is this the guy from Florida? I think he, no, that was lead scowlman and down in homestead flor yeah as in homestead the coral the coral castle

coral castle um yeah yeah this dude moves 20 20 ton blocks by hand that guy yeah yeah without machinery he shows how to do it a couple of these things he builds and shows are i thought that was you know super interesting and and because if you deal with just the physics of it man like some of the stuff's not that crazy. You know, you could build one of these ramp systems. Look how he pushes this enormous stone by himself. Like, you get a, you get it. Whoa, what is he using right here? What is that? He balances it on a pebble and then he's put it, he, he's big concrete block and he's put leverage on it. So he cares about moving blocks around. And then when you look at the, the magnitude of the weights that he's moving around, it is, it is really impressive and he's not using any equipment

or anything. In playing with blocks, Wally thinks he's discovered how stone's, hinge was moved. This is my first stonehenge arch. I permanently put in place. It's three blocks. They weigh over a ton each. It's all based on a very simple technique. I found a simple explanation for this

to move a block about the weight of a minivan would be to place a stone underneath it. And once I balance on it, I can spin it. Holy shit. Yeah, it's all about that center of mass and the balance. But I got two handles on my lever, and I could place another side. stone on this side. Now every time I spin a half location on each stone I move the block horizontally

the distance between the stone. For my own output I could move a one ton block 300 feet per hour. Using this tech, he's moved everything from one ton blocks to buildings. Look at that. So he's tipping it with weight. He's raising it off the ground six inches at a time by placing a wedge underneath each end. And that's going to put the entire weight of the block on this rope. So then I'm going to release the rope, come back in, and the rope's going to be my break. I'm going to guide it into the pit. The easiest way I can explain this is this is just a big teeter totter, and I got the big kid on that end, and he's going to go down, and this end's going up.

So each time he does the teeter totter, he places another wedge underneath. One day, I got throwing over top of the block, and a couple times I had the blocks roll off the top. and almost land on my feet. That's pretty wild. But still even with this kind of technology, I mean, imagine how long would take them to build the fucking pyramids. I think there's like a mathematical equation that was done based on like modern technology

and how much each of those blocks in the pyramids ways. Like two million blocks that weigh what, like five to ten tons each? Yeah. It would take like, how long would it take? Maybe a place like one stone every, you know, like you'd have to place, I think like 2,000 stones an hour to do it.

I don't know. Let's do some math. Yeah, yeah, fine. Google, how long would it take to build the, how many blocks would you have to move per day to build the pyramids? So it's two million blocks, I feel. Two million, yeah. Two million. So if you had two million divided by seven thousand three hundred,

that means you'd have to stack two hundred and seventy four blocks every day. 274 blocks. That's the way in how many years? It's 20 years. 20 years. that's not using what that guy was doing that's not using wooded wedges like a lot of people doing it a lot of people right

20,000 it's bizarre man I don't know it would be cool to do some more experience with it but like as a lot of people pointed out like you couldn't hire a contractor today to build the pyramids and it would cost so much the amount to cut

Google a picture of one of those giant obelisks that on on just type type type in uncharted X the one that they started excavating that cracked and they stopped yep obelisk

O B Y L it's like 100 tons or something yeah it's insane but it's like cut with perfect precision and they get them inside of these pyramids too yeah look at that one

look at that one on the very top top that one right there yeah that one right there yeah that's it too thing is insane you're not doing that with copper chisels no and in fact you need like some kind of like rigged machinery

to keep it that straight like you'd have to have things on on like a line going back and forth even set up like automated you know cutting systems like Ed Lede Scalman apparently had that at Coral Castle like he had this this tower with

the electrical signals they would put through like he had all this stuff on the walls and people will point out that those are actuators you know like you have this electro-magnet and you put something inside of it you can have like a whole like a saw system on on automated like running by power that would just you know cut cut blocks you know you can have a bit the way he cut the blocks a coral he's cutting coral so it's a big coral bed and coral is a really soft stone so it's really easy to cut so the way he would do it is he took like a big heavy steel door and and and just rubbed it back and forth and

And that would cut through it over time. So, like, that's kind of like the method he used. But they said that he set up those steel doors on, like, these actuators. And that's what that, that flywheel was, like, a electromagnetic generator. And that it would create current. And this guy rebuilt, like, a whole, if you look up, Coral Castle Mystery Solved. This guy, like, did a whole bunch of experiments where he showed, like, how he'd build, like, this coral cutting automation system using these actuators that were very similar to all the stuff. and Lidd Scallon's shop.

And, you know, said that he used, like, a system of cranes and chain hoists and other lifting techniques to be able to lift the stones and position them and put them into place. But that ultimately it was, there was no anti-gravity technology involved in the whole magnetic current book doesn't really make much sense. I've looked at that. And his whole, you know, this whole idea that, you know, he was using magnetic current to somehow you know, lift the stones. We've had a lot of people look into this,

any kind of potential coupling between electromagnetism and gravity and there doesn't seem to be one. You know, it doesn't seem to be like electrogravitic seems to be a misnomer. It's ion wind and all the, it doesn't work in a vacuum, for example. And, you know,

how do you lift physical objects, non-magnetic objects with magnets? No one's been able to do it. So how do you, you know, know what is gravity nobody knows man it's it's a it's a mystery so i don't even know how to end a podcast like this but you already missed your flight we're like almost four hours in we're three and a half hours in is there anything we missed that we should cover looking to see what's happening around your home rings battery doorbell helps you track packages

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We've covered a shitload. We've covered a ton of stuff, man. That we missed. Great. I think we nailed enough stuff to keep people busy for the next, you know, a couple weeks. Yeah, all I really want to say is we have a lab done. We're trying to do these experiments and replicate these experiments. And we're encouraging people who have information or prototypes or anything.

They need tested or verified. You know, we're trying to encourage and foster this community to do that and be the pioneers or leaders in this field to try to, if this technology does exist. You know, if Bob Lazard did work out there for real, then there's got to be other people. there's got to be other guys that were recruited into this program or other programs similar to this. And if there are, we want to talk to them. We want to talk to them in great detail and deep detail and make sure that we're getting, you know, all the technical intelligence that we can extract from these people. And if we can't extract any, then I'm trying to, you know, show people where they can get real technical intelligence

and why they shouldn't look at certain sources if they're not reliable, you know. What do you think it would mean for humanity? if our government just came clean and said yes it's true Bob Lazar was telling the truth those flying saucers were real we found them in archaeology or easy for you to say archaeological dig and we found them we reverse engineered them we don't know what it is from another planet and like all this stuff was just

made transparent like what do you think that would mean for for science humanity and like the evolution of our species I think I think the truth would honestly be like the best thing for us. It's almost like, although I don't know because it could, I don't know what that technology contains or what that file might contain. So it might contain something like really bad. There may be a reason they're keeping it, you know, out of, you know, everyone's, you know,

the public domain. I might be a reason for that. But at the same time, it's like, where is humanity going? you know, where are we going right now? Are we going to, we either have to get off this planet or, or we're going to, and if we don't get off this planet, then we're eventually going to die here. Like, we're either going to nuke ourselves, kill ourselves, or an asteroid's going to wipe us out entirely.

So if we don't colonize the moon, colonize Mars and do these other things that, you know, Elon's super, you know, invested in this as his mission, his company mission, you know, how do we get to Mars? How do we colonize Mars and create a Mars colony and all? all this. That should be our ultimate goal to become a space-faring civilization and to get off this earth. So it's either we go that direction or we go backwards and we say screw technology, we're just going to shut all technology down and we're going to go back to, you know, rural serfdoms and foreign and, you know, and that's never going to happen. So where do we go

from here? There's how many options do we have? We either, we either leave. We either leave, the planet become space faring and become a post-warp civilization or we die here. I don't think there's any other... It seems so fucking mind-boggling that we're still flying around on the same fucking airplanes we were

back in, what, the 50... How long ago did we figure out commercial airplane travel? Well, commercial plane travel probably like early 1930s, 1940s. How is it we're still flying on the same planes we were flying in the 1930s or

40s. It seems like just modern technology has not evolved. Yeah. We were working on anti-gravity in the 50s. What the fuck? We're, I mean, you could, you could make an argument like electric cars, like we got computers on wheels powered by batteries, but like, like Eric said, you know, if you look past screens, really nothing else has really changed. Yeah. As far as energy production and, you know, we're still using turbines powered by steam, and that steam is either generated by, you know, nuclear heat or burning coil, burning fossil fuels, burning old dinosaur bones.

Yeah, I don't know. We need to get off and curb our addiction of fossil fuels and find better energy sources. What those are going to be in the future is, you know, is death of filling issue still up for debate and stuff, But as far as we, as this UFO issue is concerned, I just think that it's created this state of ultimate secrecy, you know, surrounding this topic and a lot of other topic.

I think that that didn't necessarily create the state. It's almost like that emerged from the Manhattan Project, which was created, you know, out of this whole thing. It seems like it started with this whole top secret research project in the Manhattan Project, you know, right? Because it's like, where did it go from there? The aliens started showing up after we blew these nukes off. Right.

And the atomic energy commission and everything has been, you know, deeply tied to this men in black and this conspiracy to keep stuff covered up and whatnot for years. I think that there's definitely more to it. But as far as, you know, where we're going to go with it, it's got to be through the technology. Because I don't think the tech, I don't see that ever happening. the government's going to come forward and be like, we're going to admit to anything because when does that ever happen? And then if they do, it's like it's automatically caused to not believe whatever they said. It's like, so I don't think that that's how it's going to go.

I really, that's why we started the APEC conference and the, and the, all propulsion and falcon space labs because we want to create this environment where like, well, we're going to force disclosure through technology. So like, you know, if the technology exists, all we have to do is, is show other people how to do it with an experiment, you know, you got these, these, these awesome YouTube channels out there that, that, like, that will take this and do an experiment with it and show people how to do it. And then like other people, once it's, once we put a video out there with an experiment

and all the details and the recipe for how to recreate it, then, you know, other, other scientists, other labs and other people can go out and produce it for themselves. And I think that that would be the best, man. if we could create like a free energy or an anti-gravity and then just show people like, well, this is how you build it. This is how you do it. I think that that's the way forward. And also the physics, too, because we go over the physics and we get into the, in the

physics and you get in these arguments with other physicists about what's the way to do this and how do we do it and, well, this will work, this won't. And coming up with those better ideas is the way we're going to get through this. and we're going to, you know, eliminate the noise and get to that, um, that signal we're chasing after, man, because that's what it seems like is that there's a very faint signal and there's lots of noise and lots of muddy mud in the water to, to prevent us from seeing clearly through to the bottom. Well, I hope I can, I'm trying to do everything I can to amplify that signal.

Um, how can people get in touch with you, watch more your videos? What kind of, what kind of interviews are you doing? Who are you? what kind of people are you talking to on your on your show i'd love to talk to malcolm like i want to talk to anyone that wants to talk science like because because i get real deep on science and technical so i want to talk to people that want to talk science and want to talk it with people on a more um intellectual level than then you know normal you know sometimes we we break it down to i like to come on podcasts like this and and try to explain this really complex technology at a

layman level so that more people can learn about it and know about it. But at the same time, I want to work with those scientists at that next level to try to produce it and then know how to share that information and whatnot with everyone. So, yeah, it's, I think it's only the start. And I think that what we're going to be doing in the next, you know, 10 to 20 years, as far as this technology and in this field, I think we're going to see some pretty amazing stuff like you've already seen some really cool shit on the yeah today so one thing i forgot to ask you about actually how put off we didn't talk about him yeah we talked about him briefly

off the podcast and you kind of blew my my mind a little bit how is interesting got i don't know where he like started with all this but i know he like was an sri international it's the stanford research institute and they were like uh not really affiliated with stanford but uh i think it was like a CIA run organization or something that did a lot of research into weird and paranormal stuff they they were you know investigating eury geller at one point in time then he was also in if you read the jim mars book si spies about the whole men who stare at goats was based on that whole story and um this army psychological warfare operations center that they had set up and they were running experiments with you know mind control all the remote viewing stuff again

I don't think there's any evidence for remote viewing. I don't believe in remote viewing. I think it's, I think it was put out a study that was done by the CIA into the possibility of whether this worked or not. I think it failed. And when they, some other documents leaked or someone found out about it, they put out some other studies like that project Stargate stuff, you know, to suggest that it was real. and that the CIA confirmed that, you know, it did exist and that they use it and it was real and all this stuff. And I think, I laugh at that, you know, people are like, oh, how can, how can the CIA confirm that, you know, we have remote viewing and people still not be paying attention? I was like, well, it's kind of like, you know, when all those CIA directors and stuff stepped up to confirm that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.

Right. Like, they're full of shit, you know? Right. Like no one believes them. Like, yeah, of course the CIA is going to tell people we can read their fucking minds. We want everyone to think we can read their fucking minds because then they will be, we don't have to worry about thought criminals and thought control. They'll do it themselves if they think we can read their fucking minds.

You know what I mean? So, of course the CIA is going to tell people, yeah, we got remote viewing and we can, we have super soldiers with superpowers that can like see inside, you know, your every detail of everything. Yeah. Of course they want the Russians and everyone else to think that we have this. these kind of capabilities, but do we actually have them? Is there any evidence that we've changed our, you know, the way we train CIA agents? Are we still training them intelligence collection methods of the typical way?

Or are we just abandoning that and now only training remote viewers? Because if it worked that well and it was that great and that accurate, then that's all we'd be doing, you know? We wouldn't even worry about, you know, hiring espionage and, you know, people that hack sources and these prostitutes that go and sleep with people for secrets and stuff like that, we wouldn't have to do any of that if we could just, you know, use superpowers super soldiers to look in people's minds. And of course, that's my whole take on that. I don't believe, I don't buy in it for a second.

And I think that they did a lot of research in it just to see if it was real or not. And then afterwards, of course, that, you know, they're going to say that it was real. Because why not? And how you should be a Scientologist, too, didn't he? Yeah, he was big into Scientology, too. he's an interesting guy, but he also like, some of the stuff from the 80s and 90s is interesting because he talks about a major breakthrough that happened around 1984, 85. And in one of these interviews where he's talking about the polarizable vacuum,

one of the early ones from the 90s, he's talking about the first stuff on that polarizable vacuum theory of general relativity. So it's a way of saying, well, relativity only works if, you know, The speed of light is only the speed of light because of the permittivity and permeability of free space. These two magnetic and electric constants that govern space time. And if we can locally affect those, then we might be able to change the speed of light and therefore change the laws of relativity, at least locally and other ways. So that's this whole idea.

They can polarize the vacuum. It was one way they thought about doing it. Again, that's what I'm talking about with these Polaritan condensates, these condensates that they're polarizing the vacuum with. And, you know, when you keep this polarizable vacuum approach, you change the local refractive index of space time. And much like we're warping, you know, the mirage effect warped that the photons and light energy around objects, we could potentially warp gravity around objects by using a similar method,

methodology or similar physics. And that's, you know, put off's greatest, you know, work that I've seen in the field is, is that stuff he put out. And I'm not sure, not sure if that was entirely 100%, you know, him and his ideas, because it seems like a lot of that stuff, you know, Bernard, he published a lot with some of these other authors like Bernard Hache, the Caltech senior staff physicists from Lockheed Martin, who I mentioned, you know, he wrote a lot of papers with Howe put off. And I think that they shared a lot of research and ideas on inertia and the zero point energy field and how gravity and mass and inertia come to be from the quantum vacuum.

And I think that some of his research into that is super deep and fascinating, but I also think that, you know, like, why isn't he talking more about that? He'd mentioned that meta material and some of the aspects about that, but that's about as far as, you know, he went with TTSA and the science division is, as far as, as, has they declassified this? It's like he doesn't even talk about it. He's never interviewed or really gotten deep into it. Even that, you know, I watched the one he did with Eric Weinstein on Michael, Jesse Michael's channel and stuff.

And even now, I'm like, man, you know, like, they could get so much deeper on this than they did. Eric was being very polite with him during that interview. I mean, he was asking him about like, is there an operation designed to wield stigma? Yeah, that was a great interview, man. I just like, that's, those are the conversations. I really, really like, and I would love to have been a part of it, to ask some of my own questions and got in there, because that's just, yeah, I wish Hal Potoff would talk to more people like me, at least and do that more publicly and stuff. That would be cool because, and that light

experiment he was talking about in the 80s, that breakthrough was squeezed light. You know, they squeeze light, and that's what they use in LIGO for the detectors to detectors to detect gravity gravity waves in LIGO. And one of the theories in physics is that if you can build a detector, you can build a transmitter. So that may be the transmission and the signals might have something to do with these squeezed light, so these squeeze coherent states. And I pointed out what is a squeezed state? Well, you take Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and then you squeeze one of the parameters.

So like you can only know the position or the momentum of an object, quantum mechanically, to within a degree of H-bar over 2-Py, this quantum limit of what actuality is. So if you were to squeeze one of those parameters, like, say, the position or the momentum, the other one will jump instantaneously to conserve this Heisenberg uncertainty relations. So you could potentially create instantaneous spikes in momentum if you squeeze that position state or changes in its position if you squeeze its momentum state in the right way. And so there might be some, you know, deeper quantum mechanics involved in that that is related to this, these Pallaritan con, these, again, these light, these trapped systems of light and how we can squeeze those systems of light to get them to, you know, to do things physically that they, you know, ordinarily wouldn't. And I think that's a lot of interesting physics there.

and I'm hoping that, you know, the next breakthrough happens in my lifetime that I get to see it and that, you know, maybe someone who is part of it got into the research because they heard about it, you know, through this, you know, because it's out there, it's being done, how put off work done this stuff, you know, and I just wish that he talked about it more or that it was explored more. And I think, you know, maybe the reasons are they because they're afraid of, you know, who might get this technology or how quickly it advances or develops. But I'm afraid of what might happen if it doesn't develop quickly enough. Also, you know, and also, they talk about this, it's a playing ground field, you know,

leveler. You have this technology. It's going to make us all gods kind of essentially. So we're going to have to, humanity is going to have to go through this process of growing up and, and it's kind of like humanity is, is, is, you know, we're hitting puberty or adulthood. You know, this, we have to give away our childlike ways and realize we're part of a much bigger universe, a much bigger cosmos. If these technologies do exist and if we're going to wield them and utilize them, we need to, you know, evolve not just technologically but spiritually as well to so that we don't destroy everything once we have the power to wield that, you know, ability.

That's a great fucking way to end this thing, man. Thank you so much for doing this. Dude, thanks for having me, man. It was my pleasure, bro. Missed my flight. I'm going to stay. Yeah, we miss your flight, but we'll book you a new flight. You got to get someone on here to debate me and have me come back on again some time, man.

This will be awesome. I'm 100% going to have you back on. Hell, yeah. There's no question about that. You completely just blew my mind. I'm going to have to watch this back like three or four times to really grasp it. But so, again, tell people where they can find. more your work, your videos, the talks that you're doing.

So I'm alien scientist on YouTube and my email is the alien scientist, one word, at gmail.com. And if you want links or sources for anything I discussed or more information or want to share something or anything, drop me an email, send me a line. And I'm alien underbar scientist on Twitter and subscribe to me on there. And I'm working on a Rumble and an Odyssey account to back up some of my videos and stuff, but I haven't quite got that set up yet. So, um, thank you again, man.

I'll link all your, I'll link all your stuff below so people can look at it and check it out. Thanks, man. Yeah, feel free to contact me. And, you know, I've got sources and papers for days. If you, if you want to get into this, I'll keep you busy for the next four years. Cool. All right, dude. Thanks again.

And, uh, good night, world. Sleep tight.