Danny Jones Podcast - #200 - CIA Funded Physicist Exposes Conscious UFOs, Warp Drive & Time Travel | Jack Sarfatti

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Dr. Jack Sarfatti is a theoretical physicist whose early career is chronicled in the award-winning book ‘How the Hippies Saved Physics.’ Sarfatti was the leader of the California-based Physics/Consciousness Research Group (PCRG) financed during the 1970s by the US DOD. Jack has spent several decades on the theory behind applications of quantum entanglement to conscious AI and the low-energy metric engineering. SPONSORS https://mudwtr.com/danny - Use code "danny" for 15% off https://ver.so/danny - Use code "danny" for 15% off EPISODE LINKS https://twitter.com/JackSarfatti JOIN OUR KULT: https://bit.ly/koncretepatreon FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny https://twitter.com/jonesdanny Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's start this thing off by sort of giving you a soft introduction. You're a theoretical physicist. Yeah. I've been doing this your whole life. Yes. You were contacted by the CIA in the 70s, is that right, to work on some stuff with consciousness and flying saucers in the 70s. Yeah. And actually, even a little bit before that, but that's a complex story.

Right, right. And then your early childhood, can you explain? what was going on in your early childhood when you got that phone call that one night from who called you? Yeah, well, I should go back before that. Okay. Because when I was about seven or eight,

I guess my parents in Brooklyn got divorced and I went to live with my maternal grandparents in the Bronx. And my grandfather was working for the U.S. Army. And he was, just like a chauffeur. He would drive out of the Garmin District, the quartermaster core, and he would drive these offices around, whatever they were doing,

acquisition of material uniforms in the Garmin District. So I would go down there a lot. And it was an interesting situation. In fact, I spent a lot of time there, and they gave me free reign of the place as a kid. You know, an 18-year-old kid, I run around. They had all these great, laboratories and

they had cold weather lab and a hot weather lab and this and stuff and I was like play there and then I sometimes would drive around with my grandfather driving the car sitting in the back of this army vehicle with these army offices

like talking and I was a bright kid they were like encouraging me to you know I had been reading all the science fiction pulp magazines coming out 25 cents, astounding, amazing stories. And I knew about time travel and rockets to the moon.

I wanted to be a rocket engineer and build the rockets. And I was being encouraged by all that to do that. And they also, I remember the subject of flying saucers came up. So this is like maybe just a couple of years, three, four, the most five years after Roswell, you know, actually less than that, three, four years after Roswell. And then much later, I guess in the 90s, when the book by Colonel Philip Corser,

the day after Roswell came out, I opened the book and I look at the photograph. And I said, you know, like I recognize this, I can't be 100% sure because, yeah, I could be like manufacturing a member. You can't tell, you know, this is something happened over 70 years ago, right? Right.

73, 74 years ago. And, but I think it was Corso was the main guy who used to talk to me. Corso was. Philip Corso, the guy who wrote, you know who he is. He wrote the day after Waswell, right? Yeah, but do you know what it's about? Do you know the story? I haven't read it, but I've heard about it.

Okay, okay, well, Corso is the guy who claims that he was at Rodgers. well and that he witnessed the aliens, you know, dead aliens, and that he saw the saucer and that he had them shipped to write Patterson, I guess it was, back then. And then he also claims that later on, he claims that this, I forget this general he worked for, he was in charge of the foreign material. He was in charge of all the retrieved material, crash material from Roswell. Okay. And there's, I can tell you a lot more,

maybe later we get into it, because otherwise it'll be too disjoint if I just jump ahead to like, there's more stuff I know about the Roswell material. I know a lot of stuff about that. Okay, so there we are. I'm like, you know, a few years after Roswell happens, I'm with these guys,

I'm with the military officer. I think, or will somebody like him or somebody worked with him? Because they were talking about flying sources. I was being talked to, you know, flying sources. And then, okay, so then I moved back with my mother when I'm about 13 in Brooklyn. And that's when the phone call happened. I'm alone and my mother somewhere out. It's a summer night, it's a nice warm summer night, probably August.

And the phone rings. And I pick up the phone and I hear, you know, first, you know, can hardly hear just like, like, you know, like coordinates, you know, like numbers, like seven, six, yeah, but in a strange voice, but very low. And then, and I'm trying to listen. I don't quite, you know, can't get it. And then the volume increases, volume increases.

And I hear also clunking, like switching circuits. Oh, I also had, I was reading a book at the time on, the early computers, mechanical relay computers called switching circuits, Bill Laboratories. So I'm hearing like the clunky. So it's like a computer, okay? What I thought, you know,

what people thought of computers well, 1953. Hardly anybody even knew what a computer was, but I did, you know. And so, and then gets louder. And then Stephen Hawking. You know who Stephen Hawking?

Oh, yeah. Okay, well, it wasn't, you know what he sounded like because he couldn't talk, the metallic voice. it's the Stephen Hawking voice in 1953. Okay. I'm hearing this right, and it says and identifies itself as a computer

on board a flying saucer from the future. Back from the future. Okay. Verbatim. Well, I'm sort of paraphrasing, but, yeah, I mean, not, yeah, I'm paraphrasing. Instead it was on a flying saucer, though? Yeah, it was says, well, I think, I think it said it was on board a spacecraft from the future.

Okay. It may have said flying, but, you know, I was into flying sources already by then. It was, you know, space. It's a time machine, time travel. Right away, I'm told it's time travel. And they said they've, that they are contacting several hundred. I think they said even 400. They heard the 400 young receptive minds that they want to teach their technology to.

Bear in mind what's happening now with the congressional. all this stuff, right? They want to teach their technology. And at first I thought, you know, because I was a pretty streetwise kid, and I thought it was, you know, it's a joke. I thought it's a joke. Because I'm not, you know, I'm not out of touch with reality.

How old are you? I was 13, 1953, 13 years old. And I'm trying to think, who's, okay, okay, I got the joke, you know, who's doing this. And then something that occurs to me, none of my friends of my age group were as smart as me in terms of science they weren't into all this stuff. They were like normal kids.

I was an abnormal kid. I was a nerd. But these kids, yeah, they're just all-American, you know, back, you know. And so it couldn't have been a kid. And also, none of them had access to the kind of technology that can make a cold metallic voice, right? And if it's like, I'd be an adult. It's like going through my mind, you know. and then so that could be dangerous.

That was, you know, knew that there may be weirdos around. And but then it said, so yeah, let it continue. And it said I had to now tell them out of my own free will if I wanted to participate in this project. And then, you know, did you ever see this thing with the, you know, like the little devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder and say, do it, do it, don't do it, don't do it.

it, you know, like, and I'm thinking, and I'm thinking to myself, no. I think, you know, internal dialogue, no. But then I feel like an electric shock go from the base of my spine to the back of my head here. You're like, it's an electrical feeling. And I hear myself saying yes. All right. This is interesting. And then they say, oh, and they also said that I begin, they said good. And then. And then they said, good. Now they said, I will begin to meet the others in 20 years. So it's got to be time to around. They're telling me what's going to happen 20 years in the future. 73.

Right. So, and then they said, then the voice says, go out on your firescape, and we're going to send a ship to pick you up in 10 minutes. All right. So at this point, so I hang up the phone. At this point, I'm scared and I'm, well, yeah, I'm excited, right? The kid, you know. Yeah.

summer night. This is New York. This is Flatbush. This is an Irish, German, Italian, Catholic neighbor. You know, big church, the Irish bar, the Italian baker, the German bakery, where I got these Charlotte Rusas, everything.

And it's brownstone, and it's everybody's out, you know, it's warm, beautiful night, everybody's out on the street, the mothers with their kids and the strollers. It's a whole scene out of like a Broadway musical, right? and I had a gang. I was like,

my gang, I'm looking, so I find, I run, I find Neil and Norman Legata. Okay. Neil is, is my age,

you know, 13, and he's a strapping, he's a strapping Italian kid, you know, I mean, you know, he's a,

like, you know, he's a strong kid. And his little brother, Neil, Norman, I'm sorry, Norman is his brother,

who's like, 10 years old, the two of them, so they're part of my and then I run into my Winky, Winky, who is a tough Irish kid and our mothers, yeah, it was like, well, we grew up together and the mothers, all the mothers knew each other.

And Winky, he's like a, he's like a price, he's a really tough Irish kid. Like he'd say, yeah, punch me in the stomach, you know, he had the abs, you know, can punch me, you know. And, and he, when I went to Cornell at age 16,

he joined the Marines. Okay, he was in the Marines. He was in Vietnam again. Well, no, this is before Vietnam. No, Korea, wait a second. No, this is before Vietnam. This is 56, yeah. Okay.

This is right after Korea. So, and he, then when he got out of the Marines, his real name is Al Bro. And he became a very well-known New York City, NYPD, homicide detective. Okay.

I don't know if he's still alive. Amen. All right. So these are my, so we all said, the flying source is coming to get me, coming to pick me up. And, you know, so the four of us kids, we go up to my place within the 10-minute period. And that's it. Nothing ever happened. Nobody showed up. No, they didn't show up as far as I know. All right. So did you think about that after? Did you think like, maybe was I being cranked? I forgot, you know, basically forgot about it, right? Forgot about it. And then, um, then, So then what happens? But then, remember, I was with all this army stuff happening before I got back to Brooklyn, right?

So then I'm going to high school, and I get involved with this kid, Johnny Glowgauer, who's a year younger than me. And he's a quiz kid. That's the time that radio show, The Quiz Kids. And he also went to Juilliard. You know anything about Juilliard School of Music is for very talented. kids in music in Manhattan. So he was a student of violin at Juilliard. He was a quiz kid on the radio.

He's kind of famous. And he was also reading Shing and Shield Tensor Calculus. He's 11 years old, 12 years old. Which is, you know, the mathematics of Einstein's general theory of relativity. Okay. And he, in fact, they took him,

the quiz kid show, there's a whole big thing in the newspapers, that they take this boy genius like a most sort of, you know, and it was also Giuliat. He was a famous. He was a celebrity, basically. And they took him to meet Albert Einstein. You know, this is 1950.

Einstein died like two years ago. And so I'm the only kid that Johnny can talk to. You know, he's, you know. And so during middle school, basically I spent a lot of time, me and Johnny, you know, hanging out, talking science. All that's something. He would be sort of teaching me tens of calculus kind of right there. And then there's this other kid whose name I forget, whose father was the physics professor at Brooklyn College,

which is right next door, right? That's my neighborhood. We're very close to Brooklyn College in Midwood High School where Woody Allen went. And so we would also spend, by this time I was already in high school, like a freshman. Well, I skipped a year. I guess it was sophomore. You know, they skipped us through.

And so we would also be hanging out, Johnny Golgawa, this other kid, I wish I would. I can remember his name, but his father was the professor of physics at Brooklyn College. So we'd hang out in the physics laboratory at Brooklyn College, you know, playing around or whatever we were doing. And then there's this other crazy kid named Robert Bashlow. Robert Bashlow was about my age, Russian, you know, Russian Jewish. And he was also at Juilliard piano.

And he also was making thousands of dollars at the age of 13 in the coin market in New York, Manhattan, rare coins. He always had money. We had whatever money. You want this ice cream, you want that, you want. And he could play anything. We would hang out in his parents in his basement. They had a Steinway piano. He'd be playing Mozart, Scolatti, Bach, you know, flawlessly, like a concert pianist.

Wow. Okay. So one day he says, hey, listen, I'm going to meet this guy. So Johnny Golgau, me and Robert Bashel takes us up to Germantown, 86th Street in Lexington area. Germantown is, you know, beautiful apartment house. And we meet this guy who's about 30 years old named Walter Breen. Okay, Walter Breen, young guy. And Walter Breen, so we start hanging out a lot going up, you know, weekends.

Walter Breen. Now it turns out Walter Breen, now this is interesting. Walter Breen is running a program for gifted children run out of Columbia University by Professor William Sheldon. Just, okay, if they're studying, you know, so he's gathered. So, Breen's apartment is a beautiful apartment. Actually, it was a mess because they didn't clean. But, you know, he had sculptures and books. It was, you know, he was a real intellectual place.

And people would come from Ayn Rand, from all kinds of people would show up there. It was kind of like an enriched atmosphere. And they would talk. It was like a salon. And we were part of that scene. And then, but at times these guys in black suits, like the men in black, we come up from Albuquerque, from New Mexico. And they would lecture us. This is the McCarthy era.

This is Eisenhower's president. And they would lecture us on, you know, the Russian threat, the Soviet threat communism and how it's important we learn physics. And they were talking about flying sources. We want you to figure it out. Okay. And then also they would test us for psychic powers. They would run, you know, like the different tests to see if we could move objects with our minds. Right out of X-Men, right of X-Men.

And Walter didn't do too much there. but, you know, he was like, Walter was like the scoutmaster, okay? And then, so this was going on. My whole high school, also I was in the Civil Air Patrol, you know, Air Force cadet, sort of, you know, flying airplanes, Griffiths Air Force Base, Civil Air Patrol for kids. And then, so when it came time to go to college, Walter, they wanted me to go to the University of Chicago. They had some connections there. They had this 100 book program.

Who wanted you to go there? Well, the, the people from Columbia. You know, from this school, this X-Men kind of thing. Did they have a name for that program? Well, no. There's a, okay, there's a guy you may want to talk to him. There's a guy named Bruce Vogel.

He's a little bit younger than me. He was part of that program. Later, I think, you know, after I already left it, He was part of it, but he's the literary, he has all of the Walter Breen manuscripts. So he knows a lot about it. And if you wanted to actually do some investigations, probably I'll give you his phone number, you call him. And so.

And then sorry, just going back to you were hanging out with Walter and those guys, those quote-unquote men in black were showing up. When you talk to those guys who showed up from Albuquerque, did you ask them who they were, where they were from? Remember, we were kids. We don't, you know, we're just, we're innocent kids. We don't know what the... Well, no, they, I think...

They just told you that, they said... No, no, well, you can see they were, like, official. It was like FBI guys. Yeah, I mean, they were in... You know, the way the FBI dresses, they were dressed like that. Okay. And I remember we walk around, we go out to eat with them,

and they, I remember one guy, you know, Walter is with some other kids in the front, and I'm just talking this one guy, and he's talking to me about patriotism and, you know, defending the country, and all this kind of, you know, kind of pep talk, anti-communist kind of pep talk. Right.

And I did remember, well, one time they're saying, they're saying, like in critiques, they're saying, I heard one of the guys say, hey, Walter, why can't you get these kids into more into the arts because it was stuff about sculptures and music, and some of them were. And Walter was saying, well, they only want to do science, math. Okay.

So there was, oh, Alan Greenspan was part of the group. Not my group. He's in an earlier version. Alan Greenspan became head of the Federal Reserve. Okay? Wow. Other guys, Robert Salome. A lot of people, they were like, obviously, creating cadres, like for the ruling

class, you know, for the intelligence community to sort of like take over as part of you know, this is some kind of project. And I think they were from Sandia, but I don't know if it was called Sandia, which is the Nuclear Weapons Lab, okay, you know, from the Manhattan Project, okay? I don't know if at that early, if it was actually called Sandia,

but whatever was left from Manhattan Project, that's what they were, these guys, I think we're connected with. Got it. All right. And, okay, so it comes time for me to go to college. I was 16, almost 17. my senior year at Midwood.

And they wanted me to go to Chicago because they had some program at Chicago. But I also applied, my mother didn't want me to go that far. I also applied to MIT and Cornell. And I got into all three. But my mother said, well, Cornell's closer to New York, 240 miles. And also there was a beautiful girl, Nailie Gottlieb,

who was going to Cornell, you have a high school kid and who said, Jack, why don't you come to Cornell? I was kind of in love it. You know, smitten with her. She was quite lovely. And side to side to go to Cornell.

And they were kind of unhappy. Walter's group, they were really disappointed. They didn't go to Chicago. So they had some reason they wanted me to go to Chicago. I don't know. I'll never know what it is. Well, Bruce Vogel may know what it was.

So in any case, so time for me to go to Cornell. Oh, yes. And Walter said he had written a 10-page analysis of me, you know, for my colleges, you know, college entrance. They arranged for me to go to these schools, okay? And I did say, he did say, you know, in the 10-page thing, I did say, well, you know, you're young and you're emotionally immature, but you could be another Isaac Newton creating an entire new physics. That's what I was told,

okay? I'd like to actually see that report. In fact, this. In fact, this. this guy Bruce Vogel is looking, trying to see if there's anything in Walter's writings where he talks about that period, you know, because he... Right. And so, okay, but there's another strange thing about this guy, Walter Breen. He was in the Army Air Force in New Mexico in 1947, around Roswell. Right. Okay. And in 1947, he was in a plane crash.

Now, he, I'm not, did, you know, was it a plane crash because of the flying, because of the flying saucer? Mm. He never said that. He never said that. Okay. But he was in a plane crash and he was hurt and he was in the Army hospital for many months, almost a year maybe. Wow. Okay.

But he said, as a result, after a plane crash, he suddenly got, he got like he got superpower, intellect. seems to be connected with the crash, which suggests that it was connected with the Flying Sosa incident, right? And he said that, and in fact, you could talk to Bruce Vogel knows a lot more about this. And he said he, and then he was able, I guess they had a correspondence course for, if you're in the military. he was he did four years of college undergraduate work from johns hopkins university in one year and got a bachelor's degree at the end of one year for four years of work because he could do you know his IQ is like unmeasurable wow okay okay okay and apparently all the kids that they selected you know had to be you know a certain level okay so uh there's a yeah it's a flying source of connects right then and there with this guy who sends me okay all right so i go to cornell And my professors are the guys who built the atomic bomb. If you go to see the film Oppenheimer, these are up, there's Hans Beta, Philip Morrison, Kenneth Grison,

you know, all these guys are in the movie. I'm told, I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm going to see it in London in about a month when I go back to London. And there we are. So I'm with the guys who built the bomb. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Mudwater. is a coffee alternative containing four adaptogenic mushrooms. With only a fraction of the caffeine as a cup of coffee, you get energy without the jitters or the crash of coffee. And each ingredient

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Now back to the show. I was also a singer. I was about, you know, I had a musical side to me too. And at, in high school, I was in the All-City Chorus. Like for example, we would sing at Madison Square Garden

with Arturo Tuscany conducting, you know, a thousand kids from all the high schools, you know. And, and then, so when I got the Cornell, I got into,

not my freshman year, my sophomore year, I got involved with the Cornell, Gilbert and Sullivan Society, Saboyard Society. And I had a voice teacher from England, Keith Faulkner. And so I remember he used to go to his studio and maybe give me voice lessons and stuff like that. So one day I'm there,

and there's this libretto on the piano there, and his close friend was Benjamin Britain, a famous English composer. And Benjamin Britain, it's like 1957 or so, maybe 58, I guess 57, around there. And Benjamin Britain has just written this children's opera, Noah's Flutter, about Noah's Flood, you know. And so I was in the, Keith produced it.

I was in the American premiere of the Noah's Flutter opera. I was Ham, he was a kid, Ham the son of Noah. It was the American premiere of this opera by Benjamin Britain. But what's also interesting about this is that years later, when Keith, when Faulkner left Cornell, he went back to England, he was made head of Her Majesty's Royal College of Music in London. Okay.

But I only found out fairly recently, the last few years, I checked on Wikipedia. Faulkner, he died. Turns out, during World War II, he was the first Royal Navy pilot, combat pilot off the carriers. And he was an ace.

He shot down a lot of, you know, in the Battle of Britain, he was like shot down a lot of, you know, Messerschmits, you know, so he was a hero. World War II. Okay. So all these guys, now, now, it turns out now. All right, so let me, Jim, why am I talking about this? There's a movie called The Good Shepherd. Yeah, you told me about this last night.

Okay, all right. So the movie, and I told it. So, but for the audience, the point is that, okay, back then especially, Rhodes Scholars, very tight connection between the British intelligence establishment and the American intelligence establishment and the Ivy League schools. The Ivy League schools, white privilege, very elite. When I got the Cornell, we were met by, at Frash Camp that night by Governor Averill Harriman,

who was the governor of New York, who had been the ambassador to the Soviet Union, and we were given a pep talk, how we're the future leaders of the country, freedom responsibility, all this kind of stuff, okay? The central, okay, the origin of central intelligence agency, very interesting. In the film, The Good Shepherd,

which is about James Jesus Angleton, Right. Whose grandson is a friend of mine who I work with, James Angleton, the Third, all right? Who's in Florida, you know, in your place, okay? So in any case, in the movie, which has Matt Damon, and I think De Niro's in it. De Niro plays some spook, the CIA spoof, okay? And the opening scene of this movie is at Yale. It's a Gilbert and Sullivan production at Yale.

I was the lead tenor of the Cornell Gilbert and Sullivan Society, which is directed from England, from the Doil-Ecart from English. It has English, and the Doirley-Cardt, those people are connected with the British intelligence established. Well known, if you go look at all of a sudden. In fact, the Central Intelligence Agency was created by MI6, by the British intelligence. It's a whole history of that, you know, back before, you know,

at the beginning of World War II. The Americans are very naive. Americans didn't have much of an intelligence. So the CIA... The OSS, right? Yeah, the OSS. Yeah, there's a whole... I could go into the history of the OSS.

Oh, and I should also mention, yeah, that I'm mentioning. The project at Columbia University was financed by a guy who was connected with the OSS, Eugene McDermott. Hmm. Eugene McDermott, who's like... He was... In fact, one of the founders of Texas Instruments

was a close friend of William Sheldon was funding all this stuff to create, you know, the genius kids the military industrial complex, you know, all right? Wow. Okay, so it's all, it's very tightly connected. So in the case, in the opening of the movie, The Good Shepherd, Matt Damon is dressed in, he's playing Buttercup, you know, female,

because it was all male, right? Like the Elizabethan theaters, you know, the men played the women. And they still do that Bohemian Grove, by the way. They do? Yeah. And, well, because the men are not, you know, it's a men's only club. They allow women, you know, special occasions, but they put on shows and, you know, yeah, this was, you know, this is, you know,

skull and bones, the same skull, skull, yeah, it's the secret society, it's that whole thing. Right, right, all right, and the Illuminati, the whole thing. All right. And so, in the movie, after Matt Damon is backstage, you know, one of his English professors, like Keith Faulk was with me, and basically recruits them into the clandestine services. This is how, and this is their setting up.

The Brits are actually setting up what they, well, the OSS, and the war starts later, the OSS. And there's a whole story about that, but it's too, you know, tangential. So the Brits are setting up the OSS with Wild Bill Donovan. There's a whole story I know about that. And eventually becomes the CIA. And Angleton, you know, is one of the early guys. He was the OSS and creating the Central Intelligence Agency.

James Jesus Angleton. James Jesus Angleton, yeah, whose grandson, you know, I know. So when you were at Cornell, you were working with the guys who were a part of the Manhattan Project. Hans Betta, Phil Morrison, Kenneth Greyson, and what was your... Wilson, you know. And, oh, yes. And the important thing there is that the intelligence agencies were there watching everything, right? Because, for example, one of my close friends in Gilbert and Sullivan was Ronnie Pyrles, whose father was Rudolph Pyrles, who I think maybe in the movie there, one of, you know, the top, I guess, a German Jewish physicist who escaped from Hitler and was in England, then came, was part of the Manhattan.

Project, but Ronnie was living, Ronnie's older than me. So in the early 1940s, he was like eight, nine years old. And his roommate in his father's house was Klaus Fuchs. Klaus Fuchs was an assistant, brilliant English, well, also German, I guess, was the assistant to his father, Sir Rudolf Piles, later he became Rude of Piles. and so it was Klaus Fuchs who gave the, allegedly, gave the secret of the atomic bomb

through the Rosenbergs to Joseph Stalin. Okay, so of course, and Ronnie's in the Gilbert and Sullivan Society with me. He's in the chorus. I'm like a lead, you know, and we were very close friends. And he was actually living at Hans Bader's house. So Bader's a key character in the movie Oppenheimer.

So, of course, you know, and plus, this was all the time in the middle, of the thing whether Oppenheimer was going to lose his security clearance. This is all happening around me. You know, all my professors, they were very upset, you know, because, you know, because they didn't like Edward Teller. And these are all guys who are very close to Oppenheimer. And like Phil Morrison, one of my undergraduate advisors,

he was under investigation by Joseph McCarthe, the House on American Activities Committee for being a communist agent, being a Soviet agent. So, of course, Cornell was infiltrated. by CIA and by the Brits and everything, you know. It was all in the middle of this kind of Cold War thing going on right around me. And we were, you know, with the guys building the atomic bomb. So, of course, the intelligence agencies are going to be keeping close watch on everything

that's going on at Cornell in that period. Obviously, you know, they were, I don't know if they do it today. Today they're not as smart as he used to be back then. And then how long did it take after you started going to Cornell and working with these guys that were involved in the Manhattan project. How long did it take for the CIA to contact you directly? Well, overtly, no.

They never did back then. They never did back then. I was still a kid. Man, I was something, 18, 19, 20 years old. And then let's see. So then what happened? So, okay, so I kind of had a tempestuous I went to

I went to Brandeis. What's Brandeis? Brandeis at that time. This is, you know, after graduating Cornell, graduate school, I could have gone to Stanford. Leonard Schiff, the head of the physics department at Stanford, actually called me up in Ithaca, you know, through Hans Bader, and invited me to go to Stanford.

But I was married at the time. I was married to the president, the Gilbert and Sullivan Society. And, you know, we didn't feel like wanting to go that far. And I got what's called the Title IV National Defense Fellowship to go to Brandeis. Brandeis was a brand new campus. created by the rich Jewish money, but closely connected with Harvard and Boston University and MIT,

you know, Waltham, Massachusetts. It was a brand new campus. And I got a, you know, a lot of money to actually go there. And also my wife was given a fellowship to go there. So we went to Brandeis. And,

but it was really part of the, you know, we'd go to classes, I go to lectures at Harvard and MIT. It was, everything was kind of like, connected. You know, it's like, I guess, like Caltech and UCLA and the Claremont Colleges, stuff like that. It was all, you know, a fairly close network. And, and then what happened? So then I,

oh, yes, all right, well, now we're going to get some of the physics. Now, this is important, because last year, guys who I know, Alan Aspe and John Klaus and also Anton Zellon. who I don't know, who I don't know, got the Nobel Prize in Physics for quantum entanglement. Okay. All right. So now we'll go back the summer of 1958, back at Cornell. It's the summertime.

And I don't want to go back to New York, it's summer. And I'm offered a job being the night operator of the Cornell electron, one billion electron volts synchrotron at the Newman Laboratory. Nuclear Studies up Cornell to operate the thing at night, you know, they get paid you. And so I take that job and there's not much to do at night, you know, and it's comfortable that it's big counsel and they have actually a shower and there's like a cot, I can rest, you know, you just have to be there, like the night watchman sort of thing, you know. But I'm reading this book, and it gave me time, this book called Quantum Theory by David

Bohm, who had worked with Einstein at Princeton. Bohm had been at Berkeley with Oppenheimer in the 30s along with Philip Morrison, another my Cornell professors, okay, and because Bowen was considered to be at the time the heir to Albert Einstein. He was considered to be very bright, okay? And he was at Princeton working with Einstein. Right?

And when he was there, he was a youngest, assistant professor. There's a lot of political stuff, but I'll just skip over that, because he was involved with the Oppenheim and the communists and stuff, McCarthy wanted to investigate him. And so there was a lot of political turmoil going on there. This is around 1950, 51. And Bohm was teaching the course in quantum theory based on what's called the Neils-Bor-Copenhagen interpretation, which is kind of the, that was like the main, that was the thing that Oppenheimer had gone to, you know, learn with Bohr and stuff like that. And so I was reading the book.

The book I was reading in 1958 now, the summer of 58, this book was from David Bowman's lecture notes when he taught at Princeton. And it was the traditional, beautifully written book. Bowen was not a good lecturer. He was kind of very shy, but he was a really good, clear writer. Good writing. So I'm reading the book, and in the book, there were two chapters that stuck out to me. One was a chapter in which the quantum waves,

so call these quantum waves, quantum wave function, is likened to the mind wave, like the mind, if the mind was a field, was a physical field, be a quantum wave. That's the idea. And this is an idea which Nealz-Bor first had at the beginning of the 20th century when he was creating quantum theory. Because Nealz-Bore, I think his father was a psychologist

and he was involved with all these philosophers of mental stuff and consciousness. all and stuff. So the connection of quantum waves to the mind and conscious processes was already part of the very beginning of quantum theory. And David Bowman, his textbook, Quantum Theory, the Dover, he had Dover publication, points out this whole chapter on the, he calls it the analogy between quantum phenomena and mental processes in the brain. Can you give me for myself and for people listening, can you give me a very, sort of general idea of what quantum theory is,

like for the layman to understand? Okay, basically it's this. Okay. I'm going to use the David Bowms analogy. Okay. Mind matter, right? Mind matter. Distinct duality between mind and matter.

According to Baum and Neal's bore in a very rough, I'm being very rough now. Very rough. The mind is this quantum wave function. You hear now about quantum computers? Mm-hmm. Okay, quantum computers. Yeah, they operate on atoms, right?

Yeah, they could, or even, yes, yeah, or electrons, you know, small. That's, yes, but, but it's like a wave thing. It's like a, it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's like a wave as opposed to a particle, okay? Has very, it's a wave that has very strange properties, okay? and in the book, in the bone book, he points out certain properties of our consciousness correspond to these quantum waves,

these weird, spooky properties of these quantum waves. They're like pure information. So the point is, basically, we just make the intuitive guess. The mind is a physical field, like the electromagnetic field. our minds and our brain, it's a physical field, but it's a quantum wave. Okay.

It's a quantum wave, which is kind of pure. Let's put this way. The universe itself is split into matter and mind with a mind. All the quantum properties of the universe are the intrinsically mental properties of reality. Right now, Jack Sarafati is a quantum wave. And Danny is a quantum wave. Stevens a quantum wave. We are quantum waves, but they're what I'd call it giant quantum waves.

It's kind of like superconductors and superfluid. What we are, we are room temperature superconductors, organic molecular superconductors. And what's talking to you now, I'm a waveform. I'm like this, come, but this giant waveform, that's my mind, that's a mental, my mind, which is interacting with the electrons and the molecules and the atoms of the brain. This is a two-way street. Okay. So my, actually, it's technically it's called the further condensate, but that's another thing.

We know exactly, okay. Let me just jump ahead. This is very nonlinear, but, you know, we'll go as it comes. In 1975, late 75, up on the top of, Knob Hill here where we had this facility that Lawrence Rockefeller was funding us, okay?

You know, from the Rockefeller brothers. With this guy named with this guy, George Coopman, young guy, no, about my age, I guess. Maybe a little bit. Any case, he's like an army spook, CIA spunk. He comes from a wealthy family

in Connecticut. He's connected with the New York Times, the Salzburgers. He's like a cousin of Salzbergers. And he's also running, he ran a defense contractor called Inns Group down in Irvine, California. Is it Inns Group?

Yeah, Inns Group. And they had Army contracts, Army Tank Command, U.S. Air Force. And he's funding us. He's one of our funders. This is in how the hippie say physics. David Kahn, Hippie State Physics. Right, right.

Okay. David Kite, MIT professor, wrote a book about this whole period. And I'm up there with this guy, Saul, Paul, Syrag, right across from the Grace Cathedral, you know, the Episcopal Cathedral. And George says, Jack, you know, the CIA was formed because of the flying source of Roswell crash. That's what he said. Okay? You know, one of the reasons the CIA was formed from the OSS,

because they considered a threat. And I know this is true, because I know James Jesus, I know from James Jesus Angleton's grandson that James Jesus Angleton, from the OSS, one of the early pioneers of the CIA, was very scared of the flying source of phenomenon. And he had all the stuff.

I could tell him. There's a whole story about that. What evidence do you have, is there that he was actually aware of the UFO phenomenon? Well, from his grandson. I'm told that by his grandson. He just told you that? Or did he actually have like notes and documents that he...

Well, that's a whole other story. Turns out of all the nuts. But, yeah, that's a whole story that when his... Okay, when James Jesus... There were three generations of CIA here. Right. There's James Jesus Angleton's the grandfather. And there's a whole sort of side story,

which I won't go into now. And then his son... my friend's father, the second, Angleton the second, and all three of them, James Jesus got them into the CIA. So there's three generations of CIA guys, related to Angleton. This is my understanding. When James Jesus' Angleton died, all the Angleton papers went to the son, including all the UFO file. Okay. and then when my friend's father died,

my friend, these papers were locked in, you know, one of those storage units in Miami, you know, he's allowed to just have them? Well, I don't know,

who know, maybe he wasn't allowed, but he had him. Trump had him too, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know what the, I don't know what the classification, whether he had them legally

or not legally, but he had them, okay? At least so, it's my understanding, I don't know firsthand. I only know secondhand from the grandson,

all right, the story told them. me. Okay. Okay. So then when my friend, my friend Jim, goes to the storage unit to get the papers, because he's telling, yeah, apparently the fed said, they said the federal agents came in and they took everything. It was empty. But right after his father died, his father was in the, they were all, you know, now he's retired from the, who knows if they're retired, but, you know, okay? Right. So, and he only had a few things that, yeah, but this is, this is how I met the grandson because of the flying, because I'm into flying, so that's how I, that's how we all

connected. That's the common connection. Right. So I believe this. So, and it also fits in with what Coopman said, Jack, the CIA was formed because of Roswell. And there are two things the CIA wants to know. And also the defense department. One, how does consciousness work?

And this is all in that book. How the hippie say physics. Yeah. Yeah. MIT, professor, Harvard PhD. You know, he's a big full professor in charge of the science technology stuff at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Go talk to him. David Kaiser.

He was here sitting here just like you, you know. How old is he now? What? How old is David Kaiser? Oh, like, I don't know. He's 40s? He's older than you. Maybe he's 50 now.

Oh, okay. Because this was like 10 years. He's probably late 40s, early 50s. He had young children. Okay. And you should go, yeah, you should have a little. interview them. And so they say, we want to know

how does consciousness work, and that's the whole big story. The whole, that's what the book's about. There's videos about it. Oh, by the way, there's also a Nova. I'm in Nova. Nova on how they'd be saying, there's a Nova thing, PBS Nova and they show my picture twice, but they don't mention my name.

Screw that. Well, you know, I'm kidding. Well, you know, I'm kidding, but they should. Yeah. They don't mention my name. But I'm there. You said my image is there, but, you know, without not being identified, twice. And so, and so George is saying it's around Christmas time of 75, and Saul Paul Seragga was there. I thought Fred Wolf was there, but he wasn't there, apparently.

But this guy, Saul Paul Serag is still alive. You should actually interview him. He knows a lot. And George says, yeah, CIA was created because of Flying Sources, and we wanted, and there's the paranoid is all this weird stuff connected because they have telepathic communication all that stuff right uh and uh and so cia wants to know how does consciousness work physics the physics of consciousness right how does it work that's why rockefeller is funding paying for us and so was this guy named warner airhard and these guys from

stanford rs you know us and and how did the flying sources work so those are the two things I was basically pulled out of academia to work on this, which I've been doing for 50, 60 years. This is what they want to know. And now, you see, now it all makes sense because of what's happening. Do you understand? Now, this is real.

There's not quite, this is real. The skeptics are, you know, you should have me on maybe sometime with skeptics, and let's have a debate on all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reality war going on. So how old are you when they pulled you out of the university?

Well, well, a little bit earlier. Actually, actually before that, I was like 1970, 1970, early 71. 69, 71, they pulled you out. Yeah, 72. Okay, well, wait, wait, okay, well, I have to, okay, these are a lot of flashbacks, right? We're doing flashbacks. Let's go back a little bit. I have to, I was at Brandeis.

Okay. Oh, yes. And I was, and I had told you, I was reading the book on quantum entanglement. okay which they got the Nobel Prize for it in in 2020 Nobel Prize for all this stuff I was reading back in 1958 okay

but hardly anybody knew people at Cornell did not know really about entanglement they didn't even know I would start to Einstein Bedowski Rose even Hans Beta really wasn't into it these guys it was considered some kind of fringe thing it wasn't mainstream at all so I was just because David Bowen was considered

a little bit eccentric too and even Einstein Einstein boy you know even though Einstein was so great. He was in a little bit, Einstein, you know, he's, you know, he doesn't believe in quantum mechanics. There was all this, all this stuff going on. So I was like carrying the torch already at 1950M, 18 years old,

19 years old, about EPA. Quantum entanglement, this is really important stuff, man. What's going on? Because it sounds weird, it's spooky, you know? And I could see the connections with consciousness and telepathy and all this weird stuff. Okay, so I get to Cornell. I'm sorry, I get to Brandeis from Cornell. It's like 1961.

And I'm in the library and I'm reading a journal called The Reviews of Modern Physics. And there's a paper called the Tao Theta puzzle by a guy named David Inglis. And he starts talking about EPR, just what I had read. What does that stand for? Einstein-Badowski-Rosen experiment in 1935, where they predict entanglement. It was the Einstein-Badowski-Rosen paper. entanglement. They also did another paper

where they did about wormholes. See the two things? I don't know if there's this guy, if you heard about ER equals EPR, about the big problem is quantum gravity. How do you relate quantum mechanics to gravity? That's called the quantum gravity problem.

That's the big, you know, that's hawking and Penrose just got the, Penrose just got a Nobel Prize recently too. You know, all the stuff with, you know, black holes and the evaporation of black holes. That's the frontier of physics today. and I was already there with the entanglement part back in 1958. So I read this paper in 1961 at Brandeis and about the entanglement,

about how in high-energy physics, these mesons, they split and they connected with each other. And the way the paper is written, it is what a guy named Ray Chow, who's a retired physics professor, semi-retired, who I kind of work with, from Berkeley, a Berkeley professor, and he calls it creative tension, what I call it creative tension in physics. There are things we don't quite understand. We don't understand how can this, this quantum entanglement seems to allow faster than light communication. It seems to, okay? That somehow you could be on Mars and I can be on Earth and if our, say, minds are entangled, that we can instantly, you can sort of know what my mind is thinking,

and I can know what your mind is thinking. It turns out, in ordinary quantum mechanics, there's a fly in that ointment because it turns, there's a noise factor, so you can't really happen in standard quantum mechanics, but where you extend quantum mechanics, it can't happen. That's a tricky thing. But the connection between the mind,

consciousness, telepathy, Einstein called entanglement, spooky quantum okay Einstein called it spooky telepathic action at a distance when Einstein

discovered well Schrodinger actually discovered a little bit before Einstein when Einstein in 1935 wrote this paper

with his students Badolski and Rosen the famous what's called EPR paper that Kaiser's book that the guys got the Nobel Prize

for basically what the Bells theorem all that stuff Einstein didn't like it because it seemed to contradict relativity theory

that nothing can go fast in light You see that if the speed of light of 300,000 meters per second in vacuum, if that's the fastest you can communicate, but yet this entanglement seems to be that there's an influence, you know, faster than light. So what's going on here? The quantum is creative tension. Can you explain briefly what the theory of relativity is? Theory? General G.R.

Explain me. Okay, there are two theories. People who may be listening who might not be, might not know what that is. I mean, these are not easy things to answer. Okay, the special theory of relativity. Okay, here's what it's about. I'm not going to do the man. What it's about.

You're there. I'm here. And there's Steve over there. There's Steve. Hey, Steve. Hey, Steve. Now. He's a camera.

Yeah. However, we're out in space. We're in our spacesuits. We're all in space. This has to be done in vacuum. The whole theory of relativity only really works in vacuum. When you're inside matter, There are problems.

There are problems. But here's the thing. And we're floating around in our space suits. We can use our rockets, but we can free float. When we're floating out in space, we are what are called inertial observers, inertial frame. That's very important. We're weightless.

There's no gravity. He's just floating around in space, right? And Steve over there, he's doing something. in the space stage. We're looking at him. We're watching, you know, we have tele... We're looking for telescopes, whatever.

We're just... We're getting light signals from Steve, right? Okay. And we're measuring. We're seeing what he's... We're sort of measuring, we're measuring his finger,

whatever. We're like getting data. I'm getting my data, you're getting your data. Okay. But then, we're moving relative to each other.

But we're free, floating. We're both called inertial observers, but there's a relative velocity between us. We'll assume that that relative velocity between us, there's no acceleration. I'm assuming there's a uniform velocity difference between us. But we're both, with our

light, through light signals, we're both measuring what he's doing, what Steve is doing. And by the way, light has a finite speed, right? So what I see What I see him doing It takes, you know, is coming from his past Right, because the light has to travel Of course, very fast.

Yeah, what is the speed of light again? It's like, it's 300,000 meters per second Which is 186,000 miles per second In vacuum. This is only in vacuum now. Okay, okay. So now, here's the thing. The first principle of relativity, of special relativity

is suppose you and I were what to call inertial observers. That's very important. We're inertial observers. We're free-floating in space, our spacesuits. But suppose I want to somehow have a device, I measure the speed of light in vacuum, and I get a number. And you also measure the speed of light in vacuum,

and you get a number. But we're moving relative to each other. so normally you would think like think of cars you know like the two people in cars move at different speeds of the ground and you would like subtract the velocity to get the relative velocities you know what's called the Galeen velocity addition law

that we shouldn't all if we're both say if we're both at a light signal and you're moving relative to me we should see different velocities of light we should see different light speeds if you think of light like a car okay see if you think okay

if there's a car and you're moving parallel to the car but at a different speed and you measure the relative speed of the car to you and I'm moving at a different relative speed we're going to get different relative speeds of that car right but guess what when you do light and vacuum you get the same number interesting okay that's the base that's the special principle of relativity okay okay now that's what Einstein in 1905 made everybody understand actually other people actually there was this guy, Lawrence, even before him, who actually had it, but didn't have quite the right idea. And it turns out that, okay, there were two things in physics at the time.

There's what's called classical mechanics, motion, you know, automobile, stuff like that, rockets, steam engines, well, that's also thermodynamics. And that's the Newtonian theory of gravity, you know, this 17th century, to 19th century physics and mechanics, mechanical, the mechanical universe, clockwork, you know, clocks, clockwork universe. And then, but then at Maxwell, around the time of the Civil War, well, beginning of the 19th century, early 1800s, you had all these, you know, so Humphrey Davy and Michael Faraday and all these guys,

Thomas Young, and they were doing electricity and magnetism and light, you know, and all this stuff, optics. Well, Newton already was doing optics, but, So, but what happened, around the time of the Civil War, James Maxwell, who was a Scottish guy up in, he may have been in London by then, but maybe in Scotland. And he was a mathematician. He took all this stuff at that. Before Maxwell, which was before the American Civil War, physicists, they knew there was electricity, they knew there was magnetism, and they knew there was optics. But they were all three separate branches of physics.

Right. Okay. Okay. The different, they didn't knew the connection. But Maxwell got this great idea that he related the speed of light and vacuum to what's called the magnetic permeability of the vacuum and the electrical permutivity.

So Maxwell is able to... This is Maxwell. This is light speed. This is electricity, electricity. I'll call it electric. And this is magnetic. So, okay, I'll get back that. So this is only one of the things that Maxwell did.

So Maxwell had, this is the first unified field theory. First of all, okay, mechanics had to do with like particles, little hard, messy, billiard balls, moving around through space and time colliding, right? That's mechanics basically. You know, you're playing billiards. Playing billions at the bar.

You're doing Newtonian classical mechanics. Right, right, okay. Okay, okay, you know, conservation momentum, angular momentum, and energy and all that makes sense. Okay, all right. But how does quantum compete with that? Well, this is pre-quantum. There's no quantum yet. There's no quantum yet.

This is all quantum mechanics 100 years later. This is before quantum. Nobody had an inkling about quantum mechanics at this point. What Maxwell did was he, what are called Maxwell field equations, which unify electricity, magnetism, and light as well. One unified phenomenon. Sorry to interrupt, but this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Verso. We all know how important it is to get the right amount of nutrition, exercise, and sleep as we age.

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Gauce's Law relates the electric charge to the electric field. And then there's what's called Amper's Law. Amper's Law relates the current, the electrical current to the generation of a magnetic field. Okay. And then there's what's called, there's a thing which says that there are no magnetic monopoles. That's sort of technical.

And then there's what's called Faraday's induction law, which is how a time-changing magnetic field creates an electric field. Okay. And then, but then Maxwell, also did something very important. Going back to Amper's Law, which a steady currency creates like a solenoid, you know, the magnetic

field around a coil, he also showed that a changing electric field also generates the magnetic field. This is called the Maxwell displacement current, and we put all these things together. You get a wave equation

where things which they predict electromagnetic waves, which is, you know, television, radio, everything, all right? This is Marconi and then later, you know, Edison, well, okay. So we predict the electromagnetic waves, Hertz, and that's the beginning of the modern, you know, technological revolution. But the whole point in 1905, you see, the Maxwell's,

there was like a contradiction between classical mechanics and Maxwell's electromagnetic field theory, which is sort of analogous to today, where there's like a creative tension between gravity theory and quantum mechanics. So this was a problem. Got it. So what Einstein did in 1995, he reconciled. He showed that if you now just realize that in the vacuum, the speed of light is invariant,

what's called invariant. It's the same number, 300,000 meters per second for you, for Danny, as it is for Jackie. We're out in space, but we're freely, we're weightless. This only works if you're weightless. Okay. Okay. You've got to be what I call inertial frames. Okay.

It works approximately on the earth because we're, you know, even though we're not really inertial frames, the correction is very small and the speed of light's so big. So, you know, people kind of like a sloppy, they don't, they forget about this, okay? And then, but they make mistakes, which have to do with flying sources, you see. Okay, but that's, I'm getting ahead of myself. So now, okay. So that's a special theory of relativity. Got it.

speed of light's the same for all different people, as long as they're moving uniformly relative to each other, they'll all measure the same speed of light. But as a result of that, certain things happen. It turns out of something called time dilation. Okay? So, for example, we have what are called cosmic rays, and cosmic rays have what are called mu meumazons,

certain particles that if you take a muemezon sitting in the laboratory, It takes a certain What's called, it's like radioactivity, a certain Half-Life, a certain amount of time For half of the Mumezons to decay into electrons And I guess neutrinos Or something

But these cosmic rays coming in very fast Okay Cosmic rays coming very fast And you look at they decay, their decay rate Is much longer. They live longer. Interesting. It's called time dilation. Okay? is a result of the fact

that the speed of light is the same for all the inertial observers. So there's that and it also led to E equals MC squared. And also Einstein, that's where he gets the energy is equivalent to mass. And that's the atomic bomb, right? Nuclear of radioactivity

nuclear physics and so. So just that one realization that the speed of light is the same for all the inertial observers. But now we have to get the general relativity. Okay. general relativity. Oh, and also just before I go on to...

So to summarize, special relativity unifies classical mechanics of Newton, well, generalizes it, so that it's consistent with Maxwell's electrodynamics. Everything is now a consistent picture. That the mechanics, he modify, he changed, he modified,

but it's now what's called special relativistic mechanics fits in very nicely with Maxwell's their electromagnetic field. Because Maxwell's electromagnetic field equations, it turns out, are already demand that the speed of light be the same for you and me if we're moving uniform relative to each other. So Maxwell's theory, but people didn't realize that. It was Einstein and I guess to some extent maybe Lawrence a little bit before Einstein, who realized that in order for Maxwell's theory to make sense, the speed of light cannot be different

for two different inertial observers moving relative to each other. All right, but what happens if we're accelerating? What happens if you switch on your rocket engine, you're out in space, and now you're accelerating? Now you'll get a different speed of light from what I get. See, this is the beginning of general relativity.

General relativity has to do with several things. Well, you can do accelerating frame, what I call non-inertial frame, That's where you're out in space and you fire your rocket and you feel G-force. Feeling G-force. Okay.

See, we're getting there to the UFOs. Remember the UFOs. They're seeing these UFOs. They go off 5,000 Gs. You know, you can't. A human can't do more than like eight or nine Gs for a limited period of time. These are hundreds of Gs, 5,000 Gs.

Right. Okay. And that's, they still, these guys, they still, I mean, even, did you watch the thing, the Senate, the, the congressional intelligence committee, subcommittee? Yes, I did. Okay. Then do you see when commander afraid of the Navy pilots, they know, we don't understand the physics. Yep. I even talked to Ryan Graves on my podcast.

All right. Well, you should have, so you should try to get, now, in the future, you should get Ryan to come talk to me together and get, and then I'll explain it to him. but he's, you know, because they don't understand. Ryan was only seeing it on his radar. He never actually saw it. No, no, but I'm not talking. It doesn't matter. I'm trying to, so it's confused.

He doesn't know how it can work. I can explain to him how it works. Simple. Elementary. It's elementary physics of general relativity, Einstein. That's all. They don't understand enough physics.

So to them, you know, they understand it. And the point is nobody understands it in the car, in the military. They don't understand it. Elizando does understand it. Chris, man, none of these guys understand it.

it, but they could understand it. They listened to me and a few other. You know, it's very easy to understand. We understand it perfectly. It's elementary, my dear Watson. Okay. We understand it theoretically, but we don't necessarily know. We don't know if anybody has been able to actually back-engineer that. Well, that's a different story. The back-engineering. That's a whole different story. Right. We don't know if we can actually create that. We know how, theoretically, we know how anti-gravity works, right? Like Bob Lazar explained this. No, no, okay. Now, Bob Blahzar doesn't explain it. That's a whole other thing. Bob Blahzar is not a physicist.

Bob Lazar is what's called a useful idiot of the military industrial complex who's been given a certain amount of information. Actually, that comes from stuff I was working on in the 70s with Abbas Salam. When he talks about gravity A and gravity B, that's what was called the Salam theory, the F-gravity, strong, short-range gravity, part of the nuclear. physics. Yeah, that part has some truth in it, although he doesn't explain it properly, because he's not a physicist, okay? Let me see if I can regurgitate my layman view of how he

explained it. He explained that there was a reactor inside of this sport model UFO saucer that when the saucer went from horizontal to vertical, it flew belly first, and what it did was it sort of displaced matter in front of it so that when the thing moves from left to right, it sort of falls. Okay, number one, I don't think, that's probably your era. I don't think he said matter. He said it displaces the vacuum,

displaces the space itself. Yes, that's what I meant. Okay, yeah, not matter. That's different. But, yeah, and that's warp drive. That's what I'm talking about. It's warp drive. So he has, he had, part of what he says is true,

but it's sloppy. It's not done properly. But when he gets to the nuclear, the 115, you don't need any of that. You don't need that. 115. The element 115. Yeah, it's stupid.

And he never explains. Suppose I have a stable isotope of element 115, what's the equations that show me how that affects the graph? How does that warp space? Show me how to do that? He doesn't know how to do that because it can't be done. See, it's bullshit. That's what's called pseudos physics.

That's a story for idiots. But that's a story he's been given. He's been, he's like Benowitz, you know, the Benowitz story. He's been, you know, look I can see Lazar he's like an all-American kid

and he's he's intelligent he's a good salesman he's articulate okay he presents himself well especially back in the 80s and actually he was into warp drive before I was

so somebody had told him I mean it's only later that we really that I really realized it was warp drive only actually last 20 years maybe so somebody but that's made because see this is time travel

so I think what's happening is that, and this is, I'm speculating now, is that the stuff that we're going to build Sarfati Space Corporation is going to make that some of that stuff was sent back in time to the 80s to Area 51 where Lazare comes into the picture. And maybe one of the guys are in the or maybe one of the, maybe the time travelers, you know, who go back to Area 51. Now I'm spending, you know, this is speculative. I'm not saying this really happened, but it would make sense. This is a possible explanation.

And so the guy from the future came back and told Lazar or told some of the guys there, the scientists there, who then told the Tsar, but they watered it down. They gave what's called disinformation. What did you call it? Limited hangout. Limited hangout. They gave that, yeah, so what it is. Something, a little bit of a sliver of something that's true.

Yeah. But not the whole pie. Yeah, but, yeah, right. And also, that may be done deliberately so that straight physicists like me would right away dismiss, oh, this is crazy, which is part of the stigma, the whole stigma, because they don't want the Russians to know, they want the China, you know, whatever, national security, all that kind of crazy stuff, okay? So that could be.

So I was actually surprised when I actually first listened to Lazar talking about gravity Cravedby B, because that's kind of what I'm working on, but he didn't explain it the other way I would explain it. So he had a piece of it without really understanding it. And again, as I said yesterday, there are different levels of physics. There's community college, right, associate degree. There is four-year college, undergraduate, bachelor degree. There's the master's level and then the Ph.D. level.

Lazar is a smart associate to green level type electrical technician physics technician. That's what his job was when he was he's not, you know, he's not, you know. And he lied, the problem is he also lied about his academic background. He said he went to MIT and Caltech. He didn't. Right, there's no evidence of it. But there's an argument to the MIT thing. There's an argument that if

someone like Los Alamos wanted him to acquire some sort of specific knowledge, they could have sent him to MIT covertly to sort of learn something as part of some dark problem. That's possible. That's possible. But it's clear to me

that Lazzar doesn't know any math. He doesn't know physics. He doesn't know, he's not a theoretical. See, he would have write down equations that I could tell right away. But he's just given a script. He's reading off a script. He didn't create this.

It's not his creation. Right. And he was, he's reading off a script. that somebody gave him. Now, the people who gave him that script, they may know what I'm talking about. But it wasn't Lazar. We don't know who Lazar spoke to back in Area 51.

Okay. I want to get back to the point when the CIA actually reached out to you and wanted you to work on some of this consciousness stuff. Yeah, well, that's what I was telling you. That's George Coopman. Well, that's also, okay, wait, I got to go back a little bit.

How did that, can you, like, walk me through how that works? Okay, all right. How do they, do they show up at your doorstep? Do they send you a man? Many different levels. So first of all, okay, first of all, you're just a, you're, you're, how old at this point? And then I'm about 35. You're about 35.

No, no, but it happened way before then. That's, that's already, that's, that's, I want to know what it's like to be a guy like you in your 30s to be contacted by the CIA and pulled out of academia and start working on stuff like conscious, like what is consciousness and telepathic communication. Let's go back. We have to backtrack a little now. Okay. Where do I start? Where do I start? Okay, first of all, I'm back. I have to start now where I guess I'm at UCSD, La Jolla. This is like the mid-60s, the mid-60s, okay?

And I'm a graduate student at physics department in La Jolla. And I'm part of in what called Keith Brookner's group, Keith Brookner. You have to check him out. He's dead now. But there's a thing called the Jason's. Yes, I've heard of that. The Jason. Yeah, I read, I actually just finished reading

Annie Jacobson's book called the Pentagon's Brain, all about the creation of DARPA. So the guy, my, the guy I was working for UCSD was the head of the Jason's. Oh, wow. And, you know, at least part of, you know, they would have meetings of the Jasons.

And I would go to some of them at UCSD in LaHoya. They created like the first computer, right? And the internet? No, no, I think that was before. No, the first computer was back in the 50s. That's what I, my phone calls on the first computer back then. That's a Princeton. That's the Aaniac and Maniac.

Yes, exactly. Yes, maniac. No, I don't think, no, Jason's. That's before. That's right after, close after Roswell, you know. All right. So. The Jasons are around the time of Vietnam, I think.

Yes, yes. And this is, yeah, 60s. I'm there in 65. Right. 66, 67. And I would go to, but, you know, I would sit in on some of the Jason meetings on, on, you know, various things. And Keith Berkner was like chairing it.

And also, La Jollaire was a beautiful place. Everybody wanted to come to La Jolla. Edward Teller was there a lot. John Wheeler, John Archibor Wheeler, Fred Hoyle from England, a lot of people from England, Herbert Freilich, Bert Matias. It was, you know, a page, everyone, it was a beautiful place, La Jolla,

the beach and, you know, what's called the Oceanographic, a script, oceanographic was part of the campus. The place is amazing. Yeah. So, in fact, okay, there's a very good book you should read, actually, by the Benford twins, Gregory Benford, one of the world called Timescape, Science Fiction novel. I was, he actually, I'm actually in the book. There's a composite of me, you know, I was part of the Benford twins. We were all graduate students together. Okay. And he writes his story. It's all about what's really happening. He writes the story about the future creating the past, the influence, communicating with the past. It's in timescape. Because that's part of Fred Hoyle. See, Fred.

Hoill, okay, Fred Hoyle, Fred Hoyle used to come there a lot. This is Fred. What I'm working on is Fred Hoyle's theory. Fred Hoyle wrote a book, the intelligent universe. Fred Hoyle, okay, Fred Hoyle, let's see now. How is, let's see, Dennis Schiama. Fred Hoyle was the Isaac Newton

Professor of Astronomy at Cambridge University. I think when Fred Hoyle retired, Stephen Hawking took Fred Hoyle's job. But Fred Hoyle used to come all the time to UCSD LaHoya from Cambridge.

If you read Fred Hoyle's book, he has everything Jack Sarfati talks about also already in Fred Hoyle's book, The Intelligent Controus Universe, in which the future is influencing the past. Okay? This is now part of quantum theory, what's called the Yakia Aharanov.

whole thing, what's called weak measurement theory. Today, all of quantum entanglement, all the spooky telepathic action at a distance, can be neatly explained, consistent with Einstein's theory of relativity, that there's no signal fest in the speed of light, but things can go backward in time. Everything is now explained. We have a unified conceptual picture connecting, relativity, resolving the creative tension between relativity and quantum entanglement or non-locality, spooky action.

We understand it all. It's too much to really explain, you know, but just you have to take my word for it. If you want to do other things later, we can. So we understand, and that was partly from Fred Hoyle, from Fred Hoyle coming to La Jolla, influencing me and the Benford. The Benford twins wrote a science fiction novel

based on Fred Hoyle's theory. So everything I'm telling you now, you want to get into it, it's Timscape by Gregory and Jim Benford it's set in La Jolla in the 70s

and it's very much like what I'm it's art imitating reality everything that's happening now is kind of like what's in the timescape book so read timescape

you know that sets the stage that's what I'm talking about but it's a fictional story that's more like it's more reality than reality Okay. All right.

All right. So where are we at? So I was trying to get to the point where the CIA actually contacted you and wanted you to work with that. Okay. So, wait. Okay. So first, okay. I want you to walk me through that.

I know we've gotten kind of like beer off top. So it's the mid-60s. So I'm involved with Keith Bookner and it's full of CIA, you know, military. It's the Russians, right? The Jasons, yeah. So they're all, they're hanging out there too. Harold Yuri. I mean, um, did Brooklyn?

I guess Brooklyn was probably part of Manhattan Project, too. now come to think of it. He did something. Yeah, I guess nuclear physicist. Nuclear matter. So, okay, so, and then I was also hanging out going up to Caltech with Richard, meeting Richard Feynman, who I met, I first met Feynman in 1963. And, and I, um, and I, um, so, uh, it's the summer of 66, okay.

So I'm invited, I go to, uh, NATO, a NATO, a NATO, summer school in non-linear physics at Werner Eisenberg's Max Planck Institute in Munich you know and I was also invited

through beta through all this guy I was also invited to Her Majesty's Atomic Energy Research Establishment Harwell right near Oxford out of Oxford that's the that's like the Lawrence Livermore back that's the nuclear weapons

nuclear reactors I was invited there too So at the beginning So at the first At the beginning of the summer I'm in Munich With Heisenberg You know

I said Heismberg Yeah Every day You know Having tea with ice You know Cookies and I said Then we even

Went to the beer halls And had some beer You know Afterwood Every day Five days a week I mean I'm in Schwabing

Which is kind of like North Beach Swabing in Munich You know It's a bohemian, like sort of like North Beach. But in this big park, I would get up in the morning, walk up, take the trolley car, the trolley goes to the end of the line,

and that's the Max Punk Institute. And John Wheeler, Archibald Wheeler, worked with Taylor, created the fusion, the hydrogen bomb, all that stuff, all these guys. And I was there for, you know, this guy, who was there? Cruscle?

Roste. In any case, a lot of these famous guys, you know, all related to the nuclear weapons. and stuff like that, they're there. Okay. It's a NATO. NATO was paying for it. Right.

North Atlantic Treaty Organization. And then after that, I left, I actually left a week or two earlier because I had to get to Harwell. They didn't like that. Then I was also married, meet my wife.

We go to, I spend several weeks in Harwell at Ridgeway House. We're billed it. Ridgeway House was a former RAF offices quarter. And, you know, there were a bunch of the airfields.

The U.S. Air Force still had, actually still does. I think, you know, there's a bunch of U.S. Air Force, British Air Force facilities around there. That's where the Spitfires and the Battle of Britain, they were, you know, some of them were there. And some of these guys from the RAF, they were still there at Harvard.

They were working for the atomic energy thing. There was still these guys, including, you know, military intelligence officers. I was, you know, living with them. It's like an office's men. Yes. It's like a hotel on the campus of the atomic energy research. Okay. And while there, I also, it was a very nice place.

I was in the theoretical physics division at Harwell. And it was like being at a university, you know. Okay. And I would go to Oxford. I would go down to the University of London. And going down to Imperial College University of London with Obdh-Salaam and Goldstone. And anyway, so it was all these guys, and this is Higgs, you know, the Higgs mechanism, and they were all like developing this stuff.

And I would go back to Harwell and talk about what they were doing at Imperial College. And there was this young guy about my age, maybe a little older, named Marshall Stoneham. He's a solid state guy. And he's, so he was, you know, so as a result of my going down to Imperial, Marshall and I wrote this paper called the Goldstone. theorem and the Yon-Teller effect, which was published, this is 1966, was published in the proceedings of the Physical Society of London. And what it does, it shows how the stuff that they're doing, that they were doing at Imperial, which is sort of related to the Higgs mechanism, with high-energy

physics, how it relates to condensed matter physics. In this case, it's how a distortion of a lattice, just a crystal lattice, a distortion kind of creates, in a way, a kind of ruby temperature superconductor. I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but there were connections to all this current interest of room temperature superconductors, this L-99, even though it doesn't work, but they're claiming because of the distort. Anyway, it sounds to be like maybe they're talking about the on-teller effect. So this, even though that particular thing they're doing didn't work because they're not

accurate enough, that we may be able to get it to work because I'm now seeing a connection. I could be wrong. This is just, you know, I'm just, it's still half-baked. I think the stuff I did at Harwell in 1966 with Marshall Stonham, that that may be applicable to getting room temperature superconductivity along the lines as LK99. I could be wrong, but it's just an idea that we have to think about. This is all too new.

But in any case, this paper that I wrote with Marshall, actually wrote most of it, In the 1980 American Journal of Physics, Papers on Symmetry and Physics is a recommended paper. You know, one of the recommended, that's a being an important paper. Okay. And at that point, so already there's, okay,

so I go back to, I go back to La Jolla, all right? And so what happens then? I don't know, should we take a problem? So the back of this book, The Great Race, Physics, Paranormal, Time Traveling UFOs, it says the thrilling true story that was left out of David Kaiser's book, How the Hippies Saved Physics, how Jacks Arfadi, asked by the CIA with the Russians watching, solved the hard problem of consciousness, remote viewing, psychokinesis, and how the time traveling warp drive UFOs that the U.S. Navy is defenseless against really worked. Yes. So I guess what I'm getting at is how did the CIA ask you to do this? Well, this happened over a long period.

It wasn't just one thing. So it wasn't one thing that happened. No, a bunch of things. So you were basically just surrounded by military intelligence people. Yes. And so the CIA never actually said, hey, can you do this for us? No, but they did. I was just telling you this guy, George Coopman, he was, you know, he's, well, he's army,

but I say CIA also mean the whole industrial community. Okay, I see. I understand. Yeah, yeah. But there's more. It was actually, you know, later on, I mean, many, many, many encounters. There's this guy, Harold Chipman. This is now the mid-1980s.

Harold Chipman, who was at the time chief of station of the CIA headquarters here in San Francisco. They have an office. Let's say where it is. But he had previously been head of Berlin Station, CIA. during the 60s, the 70s. Okay, you can look at them up. People write about him out.

Right. And he was funding me, you know. Okay. And he was involved in M.K. Ultra. Already back in San Francisco, whenever they did in the late 50s. Yeah, I saw, I was looking up yesterday. We were walking down the street.

I saw the Hate Ashbery Clinic wasn't that far away from here. Well, yeah, nothing's far. I mean, you know. Hate Ashbery Clinic's like five minutes down the road from here. right? No, no, that's not the Hayd Ashbury's far. Not five minutes. Oh, really? I thought it was closer. No, no, no, no. It's about 15, 20, 30 minute. It depends on Trump. It's over at Hayd Ashburn. It's a different part of town. Okay. It's not that far. It's maybe two miles. Yeah, it's pretty

close. I mean, this is a small town. So tell me again, who specifically pulled you out of the university. Well, wait, that's what we have to get to. Okay, we'll get to that. Just real quick. Well, no, because that's the put-off. That's how I'll put-off. That's how I'll put-off. That's how I'll put-off. Okay. That's all.

That's that interl. Okay. So, all right, I'm teaching at San Diego State, a young assistant professor. I'm there with this guy, Fred Wolf. And I'm also doing, you know, I'm split between, I was singing in the San Diego Civic Opera and also the local San Diego State, Gilbert and Sullivan Society again, doing a bunch of shows and also trying to be an assistant professor. And my wife at the time, Roberta, she was a professor of English.

At any case, I had a pretty full schedule, and she didn't like what I was. She thought I was having an affair. I wasn't. So I got pissed, got a little paranoid. And so I wound up getting a divorce, like in 70, 69, 70, around 1970, I guess it was. And this guy, this other crazy physics guy, who's a bit older than me, he's an associate professor, I'm a assistant professor, he winds up getting a divorce at the same time.

So we move in together, you know, on the edge of campus, like the odd couple. I saw that movie with Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau. I'm kind of like the slav Walter Matho, and Fred Wolf is kind of like Jack Lemon. And you're at the edge of the campus. and it's like the Christmas time of 73, is it? No, it's Christmas time 72. Yeah, Christmas time 72. And Fred gets a phone call from his friend Bob Tobin from Chicago, where Fred went to high school,

and Bob and Fred were on the football team together. And Bob has made a lot of money in the company, you know, the meat, the commodities market in Chicago. And he's kind of a zany artist guy. So Bob says he wants to come to San Diego. So, you know, first of the, yeah, come on. You know, we're, you know, like you, I mean, everything's pretty loose. So Bob shows up.

And then a strange thing happens. And he says, he said, the reason he came is that he got a, book contract and a television contract about this guy, here's the Massad, about the Israeli psychic Uri Geller. Does the name Uri Gala ring a bell? No. Oh, you don't even know Uri Gell? Nope, no clue.

God. Israeli psychic? Yes. Turns out he's a Mossad agent. Okay. This is the Mossad that you're so interested. We didn't know at the time. Mm-hmm.

Oh, God, you don't know about Uri Gela. So Urigella today is, back in Israel, he's a close confidanteau. Okay. They were in the 67 war together in that elite paratroop unit. Right. Which were two Netanyahu's. One brother got killed later and Tebi and all that stuff.

This is all part of that. Okay. But we didn't know at the time. This is now 1972. And we didn't know what he was. We didn't know who. Ory Geh or what? Paranormal. So, okay, so he said he's coming to,

he's coming to he's got a lot of money. He says you don't have to take time off. You don't have to teach. So this is the CIA operation, right? And so you don't have to teach. I got plenty of money. And I'll cut through a bunch of details.

Who said this? Bob Tobin. Bob Tobin. Bob Tobin comes from Chicago. Got it. You know, and he wanted Fred. He didn't even know about me at that point. He wanted Fred to explain.

using quantum mechanics, how consciousness works and how the paranormal, how Uri-Gel is able to bend metal with his mind, psychokinesis. Okay, bend spoons and stuff like that. He actually bent spoons with his mind? Well, that was the claim. A lot of guys like Amazing Randy said it was a magic trick, but it's not so simple as that. Is there footage been doing this? Magicians can do what Uri-Gel.

Magicians can do some of what Uri-Gelot does. can't do everything Uri Gala does. And Uri Geller is a magician, and at times he did cheat and do the tricks that the magician was, they caught him on. But he didn't always do it that way because you can't always control his power, all right? So any case, we didn't know, we didn't know anything. We were pretty naive. So, Fred, and then, and Bob is, yeah, he's a nice, zainy guy, and so Bob says,

yeah, he clues me in it too. So, okay. So Bob leaves. And then, a couple of weeks later, Fred Wolf gets a call from Paris. From a friend of his who is in the French universe, the physics department, who Fred had worked with on a top. Remember, Fred was doing a nuclear explosion physics, you know, Lawrence Livermore, stuff like that. And this French friend says, listen, this guy's leaving for a couple of months.

Why don't you come to Paris? teach a course just one day a week. You know, you can teach English if you want. And Fred said, okay, you know, sounds good. Especially since we have this also, there's extra money from Bob Tobin, says whenever you need money, don't worry about money. I want you to work on this other thing. And then Fred also then gets a call from John Hestead, who's head of physics department at the University of London in what's called Birkbeck College. Similar offices, look, we want you to come, and you could also teach, you can go back and forth between Paris and London and teach. these courses, just, you know.

And then I get a call from London, from Abdes Salam, who's the head of Imperial College. I remember I mentioned him when I was at Harwell. And he says he's running an institute in Trieste, Italy, called the International Center for Theoretical Physics in Trieste, which is where the Russian physicists, the African, Indian, Chinese, American, all over South American, international, UNESCO, United Nations. And this is where I'm working on what Lazzar calls Gravity A, Gravity B. He calls it that. That's what we call it, okay? But that's the thing. I had been working on that already.

And Abdu Salam, who later got a Nobel Prize, by the way, he was also working on it. And so he said, come to Trieste. I'll give you a job. All right. So suddenly, a few weeks after Bob leaves, saying, listen, you don't have to stay here, I got plenty of money, I want you guys to work on this Uri Geller thing,

how does physics explain consciousness? Yeah. There's no mention of flying sources. Just consciousness, you know, paranormal, bending metal. How could the mind bend metal, you know, things like that, telepathy, right? And so here we are, so we're getting ready. So, okay, so I'm living, I have a girlfriend at the time.

you know I had met her, but she had previously worked in the Office of Naval Intelligence at the American Embassy in London, which is kind of interesting. So she's with me. And she, it's now 1973. It's 20 years after my phone calls. Okay? Okay. And I hadn't been thinking about the phone calls.

They were not in my mind. And so I'm scheduled to fly to. London and then on to Trias. And it's now the weekend before I'm, my flight is leaving San Francisco on a Wednesday. It's now the Sunday morning before I'm flying out and I'm with my

was staying, my girlfriend I was staying at her mother's house in Carmel Valley. So, Carmel Valley. And I'm in bed. It's Sunday morning. So this is now time travel now. It's Sunday morning. Sharon's mother brings in the San Francisco Chronicle Sunday paper. Okay, I'm in bed looking at the paper.

I open up the San Francisco Chronicle magazine section, and it's a big multicolor major spread on Stanford Research Institute testing Uri Geller for his paranormal powers. I mean this thing's over there with you, right? Okay. I said, hey, this is just what Bob Tobin wants to give us money to work on.

Right. Was that me or you? That was you. How's that happening? So, or that's somebody's listening? That's Erie Geller. Oh, no, it's Massad. Yes, Massad, they're listening.

All right, so I say, hi, this is weird, you know? So Monday morning comes and I say, I got to call these guys. Get on the phone, call the Stanford Research Institute. and this guy, this Irish guy, a thick Irish accent, Brendan O'Regan gets on the phone, and says, ah, Dr. Safati,

we were hoping you would call. Do you realize how weird that is? Who could arrange that I'm going to, first of all that I'm going to pick up the damn newspaper, look at the article, and then decide to call them. This can only be had, There's something really high. This is Twilight Zone now, right?

We were hoping you would call before you left for England. So you already knew I was going to England. Okay? Whoa. Okay? So, okay. So, and they said, could you just drive up? They knew where I was.

Yeah, not far from. This car man was two, an hour and a half. Again, can you come up to Sanford? We'd like to talk to you. Get the car? and I get there. And first thing, I meet Brendan, and he takes me across from SRI to what's called Noetics Institute.

And I, who do I meet? I meet Edgar Mitchell, you know, he was. Oh, yeah, of course. He's the head of the project, the guy who walked on the moon, astronaut, Edgar, Mitchell. I meet Brenda Reagan, he takes me to meet Edgar Mitchell. Okay. Then, this is where Jacques Valet comes in. Jacques Valet is involved in. I didn't know if I had no idea of Jacques.

I was. Then I'm told, oh, Jacques Valet has arranged a meeting at this guy, Dean Brown. Dean Brown's house, you know, in Menlo Park somewhere. Dean Brown's one of the original Silicon Valley venture capital guys, rich guy. This is all intelligence, right? you look back now it's all, there's a book. You see that book, Third Eye Spies, it's all about that.

It's not the CIA. That's all, that's all, that's Russell Togg. Have you, have you talked to Russell? She's talked to Russell Tog. He's still alive and he's 90, so you better talk to him fast.

Call him up. Russell Tog? Tard. Do you ever see the film Ghostbusters? Of course. Well, that Ghostbusters, but that's how, that's Russell Tog.

He's the guy, you know, the gawkey guy. Oh, wow. He's a Russell Tog. Really? Yeah, yeah. Of course. Guy, these things.

I don't know anything. Right, okay. That's why I do this. So, any case, so Russell's still, I'm 90 years old, so I'll give you his contact, you call him. Okay. Because he was there. You know, he's a... And so they're supposed to...

Jacques Valet has arranged a meeting from Jack, for me and Hal put off and a bunch of guys, some psychologists. They were all... Someone in the CIA, I guess. I didn't know who they were. And so we go there, but Jacques never showed up for some reasons. I don't know, which is interesting. You could ask, if you ever...

Hey, Jacques, you arrange... this meeting for Jack Sarfani and Brenda Rie at SRI in 1970. How come he never came? Well, when I leave here, I'm going straight to his apartment, so I'll ask him when I get there. Are you really? No, I'm sorry. Well, you should, actually.

All right. So now, so now. We're going to record in this blogger. Okay, now, the important point, this is the CIA operation. Now public is everybody, the books written about it, okay? It's in how the hippies say physics. All right. But the point is,

part of that meeting, you can listen to it because the CIA, they tape recorded the entire meeting. Okay. And somebody said, Guy Solpaul had, I had like an hour of it, an hour and a half, not the whole thing.

But you can hear me, it's online, it's on SoundCloud. You can actually hear me, 1973. Really? Oh, yes. How do you search for this and find this? It's my, just Jack Sarfati SoundCloud. CIA. Jack's our body, CIA meeting SoundCloud.

Yeah, whatever. I'll give it to remind me. I'll send it. You can find it easily. It's on Google. Okay. And it's, and in there you can hear

Russell Tag the subject, this rabbi, this is all massad too. It's all the common idea. This rabbi, forget his name, this crazy rabbi.

He's still live. Hurtek. Jim Hurtek. He's a UFO rabbi. A UFO rabbi. Kbalah. You know, because, you know,

do a lady. I think he's still alive. And Russell knew him. So Russell starts talking about Jim Hurtag and the UFOs as time machines coming back from the future. Russell Talk talks about it. Yeah, you'll hear it.

And then I said, ah, I remember that, hey, listen, what happened to me. And I tell the story. They told you. I tell the story. And Brendan O'Reggis says, oh yeah, we have data several hundred cases of kids. We have data of that. We know about that.

What? Okay, so there you go. So what's going on here, Ben? You can hear it yourself. You don't take my word for it. And you can talk to Hal Portoff is there. Now, you should definitely get Hal put off at Russell Todd before they died. They're almost 90.

You know, how Portova is not going to last that much longer. You know, he's five years. He's going to be 89, 87. What is his story? Because he's interesting to me because he was a Scientologist at one point. No, that's bullshit. That's not me excited. He admitted he was.

There was a video. No, no, no. That's exactly. You don't understand the context of that. Well, here's the interesting thing about the Scientology stuff is because we talked about this last night. Jack Parsons. Yeah, and I'm, yeah, there's all these. He was like the father of rocketry or whatever.

Yeah, what was the Elron. I know, I know friends with Elron Hubbard and Alistair Crowley. Yes, I know all about that because I'm one step removed from that. I'm connected with that. It's all connected. There's no accidents here, okay. The, but wait, let's first, let me explain how to him. Furn of, Hal put off, and he never told me the details, indicated that what happened to me with the phone call happened to him.

He may not have gotten a phone call, but he didn't want, yeah, he's a, remember he's, he's, he's, he's, he, he, he, he put off, I was told by Christopher Green that how putt up at times has held the highest possible security clearances. He was an officer in the naval intelligence before. He got his PhD, you know, electrical engineering. from Stanford. And he, and it was, you have to talk to Russell, and Halpo.

They have to tell you the history how the CIA got involved with them, okay? Okay. But Portoff himself was already in that. Porov told me that he explored, as part of the project to explore psychic power

with the CIA, he went to Scientology meetings. Doesn't mean he was a Scientologist. He was, he made, have joined you officially just, you know, because he wanted to see what they had. It was El Ron Hubbard. We know all about Jack Parsons.

If you read about Jack, if you read, what is it, a silent, strange angel? You've seen the book, Jack Parsons? No, no. There's a book, a biography. Strange Angel? Strange Angel. It's all about all this stuff.

Jack Parsons worked with Frank Melina back in the 1930s. You know, on all this rocket stuff, Jado. They started, what is there? Arrowjet, General? The Jado. Arrowjet, yeah. Arrowjet, yeah.

There's actually a big aerojet base. It's abandoned now in South Florida. Yeah, yeah. This is all Frank Molina and Jack Parsons. And Jack Parsons was supporting, was financing Alist O'Reilly. And El Ron Hubbard was, I think they knew El Ron Hubbard. I knew people, some of the people supported me worked with El Ron Hub and put Harvest, all these, plus it's the science fiction, you know, Walter Breen.

All these guys knew each other, it's a small world. Why are all these guys so, why are they so... They're all part of the OSS, that sort of stuff. But why are they so into the occult and all this angels and demons type stuff? Well, Jacques, that's why they are. That's good. Okay, short answer. Because angels and demons of the Bible are real.

They are the extraterrestrial time travelers. okay that's why so it's all all the stories in the Bible are real they're based on that you know it's like you know distorted but but all the angels and demons you know paradise lost John Milton

and Lucifer and Satan is real they're all real these are high the Greek gods are real the Egyptian gods you know all that stuff Stargate they're all coming back it's all true these are all time okay let me explain okay let me give the

content and this is why the guys in the say, this is those guys who Lazars talking about. They know this. This guy, John Ramirez, who's CIA retired. He knows all this. He's one of my supporters. John Ramirez, get in touch. I have his email.

He's just reminding you. What's happening is this. The physics of UFOs, just tick-tech, everything that the Congress, with the idiots, they should be talking to me. They're so stupid, okay? You listen to Jack? You call Jack. Talk to me, okay?

You talk to me. You don't need anyone else. You talk to the safari. Don't fuck with the safari. All right. But now, seriously, all the physics of this stuff is very elementary. All the physicists who are not stupid and who are not afraid, you know, we all understand what's going on here. It's not hard to understand.

Okay. It's easy. It's easy to understand this stuff. Okay? That means we know that there are plenty of... We know there's life all over the place. There's no question of that. We know that?

Of course we know that. How do we know that? We know that as a theoretical person. I know it with almost 100%. You know how I know it? Because I know the laws of chemistry. I know the laws of physics. I know the law of the DNA code.

And this is universal. It doesn't just, it's called the Copernican principle. We're not special. This is all, well, you know, we're not some special thing. It happens all over the place. It's just chemistry.

It's quantum mechanics. It's shroding his equation. And things that's just going to, evolve. You pump energy in and complex molecules form and the DNA codes forms and we're here. We're not so special. We don't have any evidence of life.

Yes, we do. How? See, you don't understand how physics works. I know from the laws of nature that has to be. But of course we know because, right, because you know physics. You claim all the stuff, but we don't know physics. But then you have to take my word for it. I know more than you.

You're a dumb little fuck who's only 38 years old and I'm 84 years old and I know, I know things that you don't know. So learn. Right, but explain to me, explain to me, like I'm a third grader, how, how is. See, because it was something called the Copernican principle. People used to think that the earth was special. And then the whole revolution in astronomy with Isaac Newton and Copernicus is that, you know, we're not the center of the universe.

So you're just like still like the medieval peasant who still think. things we're the center of the universe. The physics of life is out, we have CRISPR, we have a genetic engineering, we know exactly how it works. Right. So it's universal. That doesn't prove that there's life on other,

that there's life out there, that there's interdimensional life or interplanetary life? Yes, it proves it because we, of course it proves it. If you believe in physics, it's got to be. Even, this is not even controversial. Even people who disagree about the aliens and the flying saucer at the time, even they agree with me on this.

This is, this is what I'm telling you know, was mainstream now. Anyone who, see, see, you're not, what,

what was your, what was your degree in, in college? I went to college for six months and I dropped out. Okay,

so you don't know anything. You don't know science. You don't know, you don't know, that's your job to explain it to me. Yes, yeah, okay, so you got,

but I can't, it took me 50 years to know this. Right. But what's the point of, of spending 50 years learning stuff if you can't explain it to, yeah,

but what I'm explained to you is you have to take my word for certain things, because this is we can't do everything, we can't do a four-year thing in 30 minutes. Right. But the thing is, what I'm claiming to you is,

and this is not just me, this is now almost every science is called. Every, even the mainstream guys, will say, we believe there's life out there. There's no, and we contradict everything we know about science if there wasn't.

In other words, whether there were these Goldie, where there are Earth-like planets, they may not look exactly like us, but there's going to be DNA forming. because we know how it forms. It's inevitable. So here's my point.

Let me make the point. I'm just going to make the point. I don't want to argue with you because you don't want to waste. No, this is great. This is fun. I love this. All right. But the point is this.

What we know, here's here's the story. The physics of this stuff is so easy. And life is universal. The DNA codes. It's just quantum physics. It's relativity. It's just chemistry. It's just chemistry.

It's just simple chemistry. And so, and this. The stars, because all the stars are the same carbon. And, you know, we understand stellar structure. We don't have the stars from the elements that lead to life. But we don't have the physical proof. We don't have a... Well, we do.

That's what Commander Forever is showing you. That's what these guys, Ryan Graves, are showing you. Yeah, but there's so much disinformation. No, no. I forget that. Okay. Who knows what's real? No, no.

Well, yes, there's some... But I'm Sarfati, take it from me. I know what's real. How do you know? How do you know? I know because I'm a genius. That's how I know. I know because I've been in direct contact with the aliens,

with the time travelers, whatever. I know, okay? That's how I know. I know. And I know because of the physics I'm getting is exactly what they said I was going to happen. It's all happening. And I know because what I'm telling you is how I met these guys. How do you explain that?

Okay. Oh, we were hoping you would call. They knew where it was going. You know, these guys, to the CIA themselves, They're not in charge. They're useful idiots. Like, we're all puppets. They're not the puppet mass.

They're the puppets. They're maybe a little hard. They're at different levels. There's some puppets pulling strings of other puppets. You know what I mean? So that's how they... So I meet Hal put off. Let's get back to this.

You'll see here that you could hear the tape where I'm meeting them in the talk. I talk about, you know, the UFO from the future. And that's because it was Russell Tag who brought. brought it up. I didn't bring it up. He brings it up. Okay. So, so there we are. So how to, yeah, I'm claiming that is smoking gun evidence for time travel. In other words, what happened to me in 53, the computer side was going to begin to meet these guys. It happened exactly on Q. And there's no other way to explain it. And it turns out, the CIA was involved at the highest levels.

But they're just as clue that they're just as, so you're saying there, as far as like a hierarchical, a hierarchy of a hierarchy of power in our world is the top levels the aliens, next level's intelligence yeah,

well, I don't know the aliens, okay, depends on the, yeah, no, there's a higher intelligence,

they're more advanced than we are, and they've mastered time travel. I'm working on the equations of time travel. That's what I'm doing. That's what all this stuff is. That's what they're doing

in Lawrence Livermore now. Okay. They're testing my time travel equation. Okay. Okay. It's elementary. tree physics. You just got to

take my, you know, I can yell and scream, but you just got to take my word for it. I just want to understand it. That's all. You won't be able to understand. You'll see, you want too much too fast.

It's not easy to understand. This took me. This took us 60 years. The smartest people, though, it still don't understand it. Right, right. But I understand more than they do. So the point is this,

this is being, that's what the destiny matrix is, this high, the Tic Tacs, all these things the Navy are seeing and the Russians are seeing, they're neutralizing our nuclear missiles, right? This is all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's lots of documented cases of that. So this is superior technology. I am developing the basic equations for this technology, for time travel to neutralize nuclear weapons, to go to warp drive, to go to Mars. You know, in 10 minutes, we get the bars. So, okay, going to the Tic Tacs,

who was controlling those Tic Tacs? The same people who contacted me in 1953. They're in control. Who are those people? I don't know who exactly who they are. I just know they're there. I don't know everything, but I know enough. Are they people from the future?

Well, yes. They're from the future. I don't know if they're people. What do you mean by people? I don't know. Are they... It said it was a conscious computer. Are they from a conscious computer?

Yeah, so at least they're, like Terminator. But you don't know where they're from. They're from, they said up, well, in one case, the one guy, there's a whole side story where it said it was Engel Swan, said it was 100 years in the future, and that was back. about 40 years ago. So it'll be 50, 60 years in the future. Made by the end of the century. Okay.

Okay. Which makes sense, actually, because I think that's about when, you know, when all this stuff will probably happen. So, assuming we don't, knock on, but this gets back to your Bob Lazar story, the guy saying that the alien

had a sulfur smell. That's not Bob Lazar. So, yes. Oh, that's a friend of yours. My friend James Fox. He made a documentary called the Phenononon. And he made a documentary. this guy with the cloth, the satanic, the demon.

No, no, no. So James Fox made a documentary called, uh, is called the Roswell of Brazil. And it was about, uh, in the 90s, the early 90s, a, uh, there was two, uh, creatures that were discovered by these girls that were walking through a field. They saw this creature that reeked of sulfur. Yeah. And it was sitting there and it was like, hurting and it like was like telepathically communicating with what I'm saying.

It needed help. And later, there was another one captured. think at the same day, maybe later in the day, by the military, or by the police, captured it alive, brought to a hospital in Virginia, Brazil. And James interviewed the X-ray technician, a bunch of people that worked in the hospital. They all said that there's pictures, illustrations of what they saw. And they said people were in there taking photos and videos, although none of that's been released. And they said that the hospital, they're being reeked of, and the hospital smelled like sulfur for like weeks afterwards, even after the U.S. military came in and took it out.

Yeah, this is where this is exactly where John Milton got Paradise Lost and all these poetic things from Elizabethan age and after that this is all true. All these stories have truth in them

because, let me get the life is everywhere, all different kinds of life, okay? The physics is elementary, so as soon as any civilization anywhere that doesn't kill itself with nuclear bombs, they'll develop this technology. So this is exactly Star Trek.

This is Star Trek is real. Gene Roddenberry was part of my kind. I didn't know him personally. Gene Roddenberry was influenced by the same people that I was involved with. This guy, Andrea Paharich, Ariely. All these people connected. I knew Francis Ford Coppola, who, you know, connected with Spielberg, or close encounters the third kind.

I'm the guy who got Jacques Valet to meet connected with Spielberg, but close encounters the third kind. Okay? So everything is connected. All these science fiction things, and El Ron Hubbard, They're all conditioning the public for the actual context. So there is no more science fiction. Timothy Leary said it's science faction.

Okay, everything, all these movies. Timothy Leary said that. Yeah, Timothy was part of our group too. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's a whole thing. Actually, some of it is in there. You got to, we'll keep it down.

It's a complex story. It's a, you can't tell it in like two hours, really. Yeah, I knew Timothy Leary. Timothy Leary said I was his heir. Timothy Leary had, in fact, the guy... Did you ever try LSD? Yeah, a couple, yeah, but many years ago. Yeah, two or three times.

Was that a part of any of these studies? Well, that's a whole other story. I mean, actually, it does... That involves strategic defense initiative, but... It involves what? The Strategic Defense Initiative. How so? We got time.

Yeah, well, because at that point, it was in 1980s, we were working with the Reagan people and I was with this guy part of one of my mentors so to speak was this guy named Marshall Nafi billionaire you know what a crazy

movie theaters cable television he's yeah what he created Comcast Comcast is all by you know Liberty media media and Dunk Trumbull worked for him

you know movie industry movies he and his brothers his father was already was his father grandfather I guess his father

yeah no he must have been his father his father the 1890s in San Francisco Barbary Coast the Nickelodeons

the first movie Nickelodeon with the movies you know the first movies like this okay and his father's friend

was Gianine he Bank of America it was then called the Bank of Italy became Bank of America okay so this is back

like before World War around World War one. Okay? And so Giannini gives money to Marshall Nafi's dad and they form United Artists Studios

back, you know, this is the silent movies. Douglas Fairbanks, you know, Charlie Chaplin, all these guys, if you know the history of the movies at all. And so this is so, you know, they're one of the primary families of the Hollywood. Okay. Okay. and okay and when Marshall was around 20 years old

right before the war 1938 or so his buddy who Gary Cooper was no you don't know Gary Cooper was darkness at noon

who was he Gary Cooper was it's like the old Carrie Grant oh God you guys don't know God I feel like I'm these are the famous

1930s 20s you know who he is yeah South familiar. God, okay, this is amazing. What am I doing? I'm on this planet. I'm in the other, this is not my planet, guys. Not my plan.

Okay. Carrie, okay. I know Gary Cooper's daughter, a friend of mine, if she heard this, she'd be shocked. Sorry. Yeah, these are all famous Hollywood movie stars in 1930s to 40s. Okay.

Marilyn Monroe. You know, Marilyn Monroe? Sounds familiar. No, you're kidding. There, right? I know who she is. Joe DiMaggio. I mean, David. She was here, apparently. Okay. So any case, so,

so Gary Cooper and Marshall, kids, they go on a tour of Europe and invite they meet the Queen of England and the King of Denmark. I mean, these are very high. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt came to San Francisco, he stayed at the Navy's House. Okay.

Pacific Heights here. You know, now with Nancy Pelosi and Feinstein, you know, the fancy mansions there. And so, in any case, so it's now the early 1980s. and Marshall is he's kind of like he's like a shama he really is kind of like

a puppet master type guy you know he's very psychic remember he's a billionaire already back then he had a billion dollar more than a billion dollar and so and and I did ele and he was the he did a he did LSD so I did LSD with Marshall two or three times. And we had time,

we were back to ancient Egypt, time, all kinds of, like, interesting trips. I was back in ancient Egypt with Marshall. Really?

In an emerald temple, you know, it was like that. You know, it was, that was the experience. And then, I was a knight

in the Templars and the Crusades. It's all real, you know, so it's like the time trial. I meant the sort of stuff you read what he's talking about in there in that book,

but what, David Gladstone, give me, give me the book for a minute, but David Glassstone, yeah, can you see it? What Gladstone talks about

in this book, I actually had those experiences. Raise it up a little bit higher. I had some of those experiences, it's on Amazon, I had some of those same kind of experience that Gladstone talks about, that sound crazy,

with Marshall Nafie, billionaire friend of Ronald Reagan. Okay? So what happened was, this is the backstory of the Strategic Defense Initiative. And Kim Burrafato can confirm. Kim was there with me.

Kim, you know, the guy you met with Marshall, you know, confirm everything. I'm telling you witness, okay? So, and this guy who wrote the book, he was part of it too. So there's many witnesses to all this stuff. And so I challenge anybody who wants to say Jack Sarfadi is lying. You come and you, you know, mano or man, you face me, and we'll discuss. So that's an open challenge. Want to duel with Sarfati?

I'll deal with you. All right. So now, Ronald Reagan. Okay, let's get to Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan is the governor of California in late 70s. This guy named Lori Chikering, he just died a week ago. And Lori Chikering comes, the Chikering family, old wasp family like Mayflower type, you know, the role in New England, but they're here in San Francisco.

And Lori's brother is high up, one of his brothers is already high up in the Central Intelligence Agency. Lori goes to Yale, he's skull and bones and all that stuff, you know, and he's a close friend of William F. Buckley Jr. I don't know if you know who that is. I've heard of him. Yeah, National Review, you know. And Laurie comes back to San Francisco. And he is involved with Casper Weinberger, who became Reagan's Secretary of Defense, Brent Skowcroft, General, who became head of, I think, Reagan's National Security Agency.

And who else? Milton Friedman, economist, Chicago, actually. That's maybe the one they wanted me to go to Chicago. Milton Friedman. And who was some of the other guy? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Who's the guy? Donald Rumsfeld?

Donald Rumsfeld? Right guy. He was a good-looking guy, but he was a good-looking guy, but you know, he's not that smart again. Okay, Don Ronsfeld, and who's the other one? I'm leaving somebody in Port now. Let's see, well, it'll come to me. And they set up a think tank when Reagan's still the governor,

like 78, 79, called the Institute for Contemporary Studies down here on Kearney Street, right near where Francis Klee. Coppola has his building. And they're the main thing. They're connected with the Hoover at Stanford, the Hoover Institution.

And I became, I was kind of like their informal science guy. And any case, they got, they're the main thing that they engineered, one of the main think tanks that engineered Reagan getting into the White House. So Reagan is the president now in 1980.

I think before he shot, was he already shot or after that guy shot him? It's like around 1980, 1981. And Reagan's a close friend. Marshall could just call the White House and he wants to start. Ronnie, hey Ronnie, you know what? It's Marshall. It's that kind of thing. Okay.

And all these guys hanged the Café Trieste, that's where I showed you. Everybody's hanging out there at the Cafe Trieste. Wow. Okay. Coppola, Francis Coppola, whatever. When Reshtakov came, you know, Julie Chrissy, when anybody from Hollywood comes saying, that's their hangout. And another place called Enrico Ben Ducci's down the street.

Enrico was kind of a nightclub. And so, any case, at one point, so, yeah. So, now, Marshall, but, for example, if a guy named, if Coppola wanted to make a movie, Marshall's like the, you know, for finance, you want to make a big movie, Hollywood movie. movie. Talk to Marshall. Talk to the Nafei brothers first. Okay, you know James Bond, the James Bond movies? Yes. Okay. Do you ever say, but Sean Connery? Of course. Okay. Well, Marshall was,

Al Brockley made those movies. Marshall Neffey was his silent partner because he was by law for taxes or something that, so you can have movie theaters and be not supposed to do movies. production. They split it from Monopoly, whatever. Any case, we had, Marshall had one of, you know, the old movies, the Black Aston Martin, the convertible that

that he drives. There were four of those made for the movies, four of those. We had one of them. Marshall had one in his government. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So Marshall's a powerful man. It's like, you know, by this, this is now 1980. He helped Reagan get into power.

and, you know, I'm not, I'm spoken dope. We've got to drive it around as John, we go to Mount Tam, get stone, and he's an evangelical Christian. You're trying to convert to you. Right, right. Evangelical Christian, listen. And the dope, in the dope-filled Jaguar, you're driving around listening to, you know, Jesus is going to save you, man.

So, and that's why, you know, we tried LSD a couple of times. I had time travel trips. All right. Anyways, Lori, Chickering, is now running the Institute for Contemporary Studies. And for some reason,

he wants to meet, have lunch with Marshall. He had some project. He wanted to meet Marshall. So he says, Lori says, can you arrange a lunch? We'll have luncheon in Enrico's,

who's a close friend to Marshall. Rikas were all the movie stars would hang out, you know, on Broadway back then. Woody Allen, you know, all kinds of people. And Mort Saul. and so I ran to lunch and we were having lunch

sitting around this round table and Enrico who plays the violin and he cooks he's cooking pasta for everybody. It's like right out of a Godfather movie, you know, sitting around there. And Marshall was stoned at the time. Maybe I was stoned too, I don't know, because we probably smoked before we went to lunch. But Laurie was straight. Lorry didn't, you know, he doesn't know any of this stuff. He doesn't know about, you know, he's a very straight, you know,

running, you know, neocon type of, but we didn't know, Marsha just made a movie with Al Brockley and Sean Connery called Meteor. You could see it, 1980 or so, 1981. So Marshall's talking, they're talking, you know, copy and he's kind of like a reverie,

and he says, he says, you know, what if, it's Marshall, what if the extraterrestrials were going to attack us? they were coming this is like he's thinking in this movie it was a media was going to come to it

but Marbleau says what if there was and what if there was just the Cold War is on 1980 Soviet Union says what if we had to get together

with Russia to fight the ETs you know and we got the laser missiles and we shoot down the flying sources

with the laser beams and all that stuff But he was talking, he had just made a movie but it's kind of, stuff was in the movie. It was some science fiction for him. But he was just talking. See, this is all being arranged with the future. This couldn't, yeah, I mean, this, you know, this.

So, Lori, okay, so we have the lunch. Marshall leaves, and Lori, and I'm like working, you know, Laurie's giving me a little bit of money, you know, living on the edge, Bohemians. You'll see, he talks about it in there, that book. Lloyd says, hey, Jack, that was pretty interesting. You write up what, what, Marshall was talking about.

So I have a little thing. And I was working on stuff, too, about neutralizing nuclear weapons with laser beams. I was working on that myself. So I put in some of my stuff. And then also in there, I say, and with this new technology,

you know, Safati space even then, though I didn't have it, the way I have it now. But this new technology, we can render nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete, which is what the Tic Tacs are doing already.

I already had that back in 1980. It's in this memorandum. that I wrote. Okay. So it's a short thing. I give it to Lori. A few weeks go by. I'm walking into the Cafetriest where I took you when we met Kim last night. Lori comes up to be excited. He says, hey, Jack. Well, he's, you know, he doesn't talk like that. I mean, he's, you know, he's aristocrat, you know. And he says, you know, I gave that report to Paul Nietzsche. If you look at Paul Nita, N-I-T-Z-E, was the main arms control, you know, security guide for Reagan, advising him on how to deal with the Russians and stuff like that.

Okay. Okay. And Nita really liked it. Okay. So it went right to Reagan, okay. This report. And then when Reagan found out that Marshall Daphie, who was his buddy from Hollywood, I say, in fact, in fact, okay, now Edward Teller.

Edward Teller was pushing for this stuff. Missile Defense and lasers. Right. Okay. And he Marshall's talking about it too. So Marshall may have known about Telly. He may have known a little bit about it. Didn't they have some sort of program they were working on with DARPA

where they wanted to create some sort of like dome around the United States? No wait. No wait. Don't just stay on this. That's what we're doing now. That's what I'm doing. Okay. But wait,

that's what Saffari Space Corp is all. I read about this though in that DARPA book, that they worked on this back in the... Yeah, but they didn't have, because that was me. That was my people. I mean, I know. They didn't have it. They didn't have it.

They thought about it. It was psychological warfare. We were thinking about it, yeah. Uh-huh. But it never happened. Well, the Iron Dome, you know, that's the air, the Iron Dope of the missiles against missiles. That's something else. No, that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm always talking about some sort of like. The force field. Force field. Yeah, exactly. All right. Wait a second. Okay. Let me finish this.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, the answer is, yes, I'm the guy for that. Okay. I'm the guy who knows how to do that. Okay. All right. This is Euphoria Calvin Klein, the new elixir collection, featuring three perfume intense sense,

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All right. So now, and anybody wants to challenge me, you come. I don't care who the hell you are. You come, you know. You heard of here, folks. Yeah, you come and we'll talk about all this. Getting an octagon. We'll talk about it's in front of a million people.

And then we'll see who wins. Okay. All right. All right. So now, but let's get back this. So at the same time, Paul Neitz has taken this memorandum I wrote. And then Edward Teller has a biography, his autobiography, called Dark Matters.

and Teller's talking about how he was trying to get Reagan to go for a strategic defense initiative. And Reagan, you know, so I found out later. Reagan did not trust Teller. Reagan thought, because Reagan always was wondering, well, yeah, I don't, you know, maybe he's a double agent or whatever. You know, Reagan was a little paranoid about Teller. And Teller says in his book, he was out of the loop.

He doesn't know, he was totally shocked when Reagan finally went, executive order, whatever was. for Strategic Defense Initiative. That's because of the Sarfati memo with Marshall Nafi's name on it that, you know, I guess Reagan spoke to Marshall. You know, Marshall's his buddy, trust Marshall. Right.

You know, they would drink, you know, they were socialized together back in, you know. And so, but also at that time, Kapp Weinberger, who was then the Secretary of Defense, I already had a following then, kind of, you know. And Cap Weinberger's son Cap Jr. was,

you know, like part of my fan club. Okay. So all this, I was writing a bunch of crazy stuff about all the stuff

and UFOs and, you know, at EPR and, you know, communication with submarines and untappable. It's all, it's all in the book

How the HIPE Safe Physics. And, and so all of my, my writings, was also going directly to the Secretary of Defense, Cap Weinberger, through his son,

Cap Jr. would take, you know, Cap Jr. was, well, I'd want to make it too much. It was like Hunter Biden and Joe Biden, except they weren't crooks, I don't think. Okay. But it was like Hunter Biden was Cap Jr., but he wasn't a dope addict. He's a straight guy, okay?

And in fact, he's still alive. She tried to find him. I don't know what happened to him because Cap Jr. can confirm. He actually confirmed this guy, this guy Bill Burns, who did History Channel, UFOs. You know Bill Burns? Did you have a bill? Any case. Talking about William Burns, the director of the CIA?

No, no, it's a different Bill. Okay. That's a different bill. But see if you can find, see if Jim Angleton will know how to find Cap Weinberger Jr. He's probably still alive. I could actually find him. I can find him. Okay.

But we should try to find him. He can confirm all this stuff. And Cap Juni was telling us that he would fly to Camp David with his dad, Cap and the president. And they would spend weekends in Camp David, and they would go over some of my stuff. Okay? You know, the writings, they would discuss it. And also, and then in Reagan's,

I think it says 1984, maybe it's 1986 State of the Union, he talks about me. He doesn't imagine me. He says, and we know the physicists, they have touched the face of God. They show how God exists in there we go. I was talking about all that stuff,

all this religion, you know, all that stuff. and about Star Wars and all this stuff that we're going to do. He gets a very inspiring talk based on Jack Sarfati's information that he was getting. And I even have a letter from Cap Weinberger thanking me for my work, superluminal, all this stuff. All right. So, okay, so of course, the Russians were following all that. The Russians. See, the Russians were involved in all this.

How so? Because we had backchannel. we were talking to Russians. The Russians were already at Estolence. See, the Russians already knew about me back in the... The Russians already... Okay, we were already... The Russians first contacted us in the early...

in 1975, at around the same time that Coopman's telling me, you know, we want you to work on this. Because we did a book that... We did a book about Uri Geller called Space Time and Beyond. It sold a couple hundred thousand copies that influenced Hollywood. That's how...

I met Ellie Coppola because of that book, you know, that's how he came up with Copla. That's how Jacques Valet got involved and everything. See, it's all being orchestrated by this higher power. Okay. Okay. This can't happen. It's not a random thing.

All these strange, what Jung called synchronicities. All these strange coincidences happening. It's all kind of connected. Like I know Jack, I know Frank Molina, who was Jack Parsons' partner and I stay with Frank Malina in Paris. at his place, at his beautiful place.

You know, and, you know, he is, yeah. So, I mean, everybody's connected to everybody. You know, and El Ron Hubbard and Andreab, everybody were like one, two or three connections away. So if you look through a web of who knows who, you'll see it's a tight web, like a tight spider web.

Destiny, I call that the Destiny Matrix. It's not, it's not random. It's being orchestrated. Why did you, you told me that, um, the Russians came here to interview you about some stuff. Yeah, well, that's more recently. Wait, let's go back. The first Russian thing is we have this book, which is basically a CIA engineered book, right, which I didn't know at

the time. Obviously, what's called a useful idiot, not really, not really, sort of suspecting, but not, you know, not knowing for sure, all right, because it didn't come out publicly that the, that what they were doing with Geller was CIA and Mosson until much later. Now it's, it's in that book, you know, it's in their books. These are books. That third eye spy, or Regeller has books, but, you know, So now it's all public information. Then it wasn't, and I wasn't even sure. I suspected, but I wasn't sure. So the book comes out, Space Abil, which we wrote in Paris,

and E.P. Dutton. And in there we have this thing about bio-bio-biogravity. I don't know, it's some crazy thing that Bob Tobe was into. And I kind of went along with it. Yeah, Fred went along with more. I wasn't that. But then we get a call. Bob, oh, yeah, the,

What's this guy? Dan Whitehead. Dan Whitehead was the editor at Dutton Books in Manhattan. And Dan Whitehead gets a call from the, I guess, the Russian embassy in New York, saying we are concerned that Tobin and Wolf Safari, they wrote this book about biofields. But they didn't give us credit. We had this Russian scientist's his theory. Didn't give it credit.

that's our first overt contact why did we give them credit this is what you know sorry you know give them credit you know we didn't know that sort of thing so that's the first overt thing and then it was all an excellent then already now

let's see so how do we know well okay so then in the 1980s okay then like this is now after after this stuff with Reagan around 9 yeah just just just when Reagan gave that State of the Union speech

1986 or so. Now you want to have asked, okay, so now, at that point there was no internet. There was Xerox machines. And I would, you know, the way I'd do emails, I was doing like Xerox, bailings, yeah,

I had like a network with this guy, Ira Einhorn, whatever. And so I was at, I remember, I was down at Washington Square, there was a Xerox store there where there's now the Victoria Bakery.

And I was like Xeroxing stuff to mail out. You know, it was crazy. period. And I get a guy tasked me on the shoulder. It's a guy, Harold Chitman.

Harold Chitman. Look him up and look at him here, Harold Shippman. Howard Chippman was Chief of Station of the Central Intelligence Agency Office in San Francisco. Okay, no, this is like over.

It couldn't be more of that. You know, I look out there, there he is. He says who he is. We go to the cafe. And he says, he wants. He wants to, he wants to, this is like now, you know, it's official to CIA. I even went to the CIA office with him, a couple.

In fact, I started, I wanted a date. There was a pretty CIA agent, a woman, blonde who I, yeah, I went, we went to Gold's cafe. Yeah, I was hitting on her. You know, this is now a relationship going on. Good old honey trap. Well, no, but she was already, she didn't, you know, we were just, she, you know, nothing ever happened, but, you know, I would have liked something to happen.

We went drinking at bars a couple of times. And she became, she's actually went pretty high up, I think. She still may be alive. She still may be in. Probably retired, I know. And, damn, I didn't. So in any case, so I was involved with, you know, I used to hang out with all these CIA guys in San Francisco.

So, and at that point, and I even have documents on this. And at that point, they wanted to set up, oh, just like now, the Sarfati Institute to work on all this stuff. You know, all this, you know, communication with submarines,

with the fasts up entanglement, you know, like what's now called quantum information theory, quantum computing. We had all the quantum spin computing.

We all had the idea of quantum computing already. Right. All right. And he wanted to set up. And so he took me, okay, so Chipman,

he was Catholic, old Catholic favor with the coat of arms, and he was a member of Opus Dei, which is like the Catholic guy with the Pope, you know, back in his kidding with the Vatican.

That's how to. And also the Knights of Malta, the Knights of Malta. Mm-hmm. All right. And he was a member, I don't know, do you know, with the club, the Explorers Club in Washington, D.C. It's like the Bohemian Grove

sort of thing, type thing in Washington, D.C. He was a member of the Explorers Club. And he, now it turns out he was, he was also involved in the MK. Ultra CIA Experiments, L. L. San Francisco. How was he involved with that?

He was running it or something when he was the early CIA. He was one of the guys in charge of it. What? Yeah, yes. And then he also was the guy behind the CIA operation at the Stanford. With Hal put off on all these guys. Okay. He was behind.

What's his name again? Harold Chipman. Harold Chipman. Harold Chipman. They called him Chip. Chip. Harold Chipman. Chipman.

Harold Chipman. He was, but he was Burled instead. He was a real James Bond. He was like a guy, when he was younger, he was like, you know, he was, went into Russia soon. And they attacked in the Ural Mountains. This is during before I met him. They went in and they did an operation trying to get secrets on some bioweapon that they were working on in the Ural Mountains and something went wrong.

And hundreds of Russians were killed inadvertently, you know, the team had got screwed up. And he felt very guilty. about that because it was not meant to happen. It was like to go in, get the information, get out without anybody even knowing, but something went wrong. And as a result, hundreds of people,

maybe thousands of people died in this secret Soviet bio-weapons lab back, I don't know when it was. Right. Okay. That ultimately led, Hal was assassinated by the KGB

before, what I was, knew him, you know. Wow. Because it was payback, and they said, and he kind of, they poisoned him like the, Polonium poison, what they did like this guy. He was poisoned that way.

And as he was dying, he got a call from the, from the Soviet council here, you know, who was here back then saying, how are you doing, you know? And they couldn't prove. But he, but he, you know, he, at that point, he felt so, he, he was, you know, really affected him because, you know,

how do you know about all this stuff? What? How do you know about all the, all these teachers? He told me. He told you all this? Yeah, of course. When you, I'm not making it up. So, like, when he was dying from this poison, he called you up and.

told you? Well, we already know. Well, yeah, yeah, well, there's another guy, this guy Riley, is another guy who was part of our group who was close to him. And this involves Iran-Contra and weapons deals. I know all kinds of stuff about what was going on back then, you know, with the Iran-Contra. Everything's involved in that. I was on the edge of all that stuff, you know. And this is this guy, Stephen, you have to interview Steve and George for something. But in any case, so what was happening. He wanted to, Hal was trying to set up, he took me to University of San Francisco, Father Joseph Petsio, who was the head of the, I guess the Jesuit order at University of San Francisco. I met Father Petsio, Joseph Petsio, and they were going to set up this institute think tank

for me to work at all the stuff that we're doing now, actually, back then in the 1980s. and if you look I could show you who he's had a Roosevelt one of the Roosevelt guys one of the sons of FDR was involved I actually have the stuff and all these guys from Ray Klein all these top guys from from Wall Street

you know who are all going to be on the board of directors and we're all set up this whole thing set up and it would have happened but then he was suddenly he got Polonia whatever raising it and he died so that's it's happening again now it's happening now All right. But this is back then.

It was already supposed to happen, but didn't happen. All right. So now it's happening now. Wow. All right. So, you know, there's, in fact, let me, wait, is my book Destiny Matrix? Do you see the book, Destiny Matrix? Oh, yeah, let me just see if I could find it.

There it is, yeah. Yeah, this is still on a, can you see this? Everything I'm telling you is in this book. You get this on Amazon. Okay. It's actually being redone. It's a new. that's being it'll be expanded this stops at 2002

look at that man what a cover yeah stops at 2000 what is that little guy in the front of it I don't know that's just some time traveler so this is my chipman here and this is this thing hey let me just see the Sarfati Institute this institute

proposed to be located at the University of San Francisco will be funded by the Sarfati Corporation that they're bringing in money with Goals of the Institute. The goals will, and this is an official CIA thing, goals of the Institute to conduct basic research in the quantum physics of non-local phenomena discovered by Albert Einstein in 1935,

the Einstein-Badolski-Rosen-Bome effect. And to develop applications of the basic mathematics and physics research into patents for untappable, unjamable, command-control communications, Six-generation quantum spin correlation supercomputers. This is 1985. Okay, but get this.

Quantum zero point energy release for interstellar rocket engines. Super technology for the Strategic Defense Initiative, SDI, to reduce the possibility of nuclear war, Pi orbital electron spin control of recombinant genetic engineering. Mm-hmm. It's like CRISPR now. It's okay. Remember this is 40 years ago.

Manipulation of oil, girdle, loops, and time. That's the warp drive stuff. And, you know, that's flying source and stuff. I want to talk to you about that real quick. Okay, but wait, but let's finish. Otherwise, it's get too scattered. The other fundamental applications as they emerge from the basic research program. Oh, now look.

the style of the institute. This is the highest levels of people involved in this thing, okay? Top minds both established an up-and-coming should be paid to come and conduct research in an environment where they are unafraid to speculate. Remember, I didn't write this stuff. This is written by the CIA. Unafraid to speculate.

That's interesting. Yeah, okay. This is important. This is ahead of its time. Seminars, both formal and informal, shall take place entertaining educational media shall be developed for the public. Sounds like to the Stars Academy now, right?

Scientists, poets, artists, political theorists, philosophers, military and intelligence officers, politicians, captains of industry, theologians shall be gathered together for workshops on the cultural impact of breakthroughs in the new physics. This is exactly like the Bohemian Grove. That's what happens at Bohemian Grove? Yeah, that's pretty much what happens at Bohemian Grove. You know, that's what...

Oppenheimer, this is public down. Oppenheimer, the way the Manhattan project started, I don't know if they'd have this in the movie. Oppenheimer gave a speech up in this chalet, I've been there. The chalet, you know, all these top generals and, you know, politicians

in 1941 or 42, saying with the slawed paper that we have to build the atomic bomb. It was all done through the Bohemian Grove, through the Bohemian Club, which is a club down here, you know, okay. All right, now, just let me, okay, I'm not going to, but let me say the people, some of the people, some of the people, and this is important,

some of the people, okay, banking, senior partner, Paul Berry Associates. These are, you gotta look these guys up. You know, you can, you can. Okay, all right, yeah, that's cool. Okay, let's keep going. Okay, foreign, okay, this is his background, you see all the CIA stuff bought, and,

some of the other people who are you both of all. Okay. Science, Arthur Shallow, Nobel Prize, one of the lasers, shallow. I don't know, military, E.B. Roberts, Johnson & Johnson, Corp. These are a religious father, Joseph Pesio. So the religion's already here, right? It's everything that guys tell you, there it is. It's right here.

This is the Vatican, okay? Political. Dr. Ray Klein. You look up who Ray Klein is. Senior associate, Center for Strategic and Interested. International Studies, Georgetown University. Look at who Ray Klein is. This is a big shot, okay? These are friends, these are Chipman's buddies.

Oh, wow. Okay. Economic, Donald High, okay. Economic direct, oh, yeah. Archibald B. Roosevelt Jr. Archibald B. Roosevelt, you know, a son of the FDR is part of this project. Chester Bunnell. Oh, Artenberg.

Oh, Altenberg. Eltonberg is a famous guy. Okay. So this is, you know. know, here, this is the actual document that I reprinted in this book that shows you what the same was into. And it was actually ahead of it. It would have been great ahead of it happened.

It sort of happened, but haphazard. And it's now happening again. They're trying to do it again. It's now happening right now. It's now happening. And that is the, uh, you were trying to explain to me last night when I was asking you about the grush testimonies and all the stuff that he was saying. And I was explaining to you that I was highly skeptical of the whole thing.

The fact that they made it this big dog and pony show on national television. And, you know, I always question it. When the government starts to get behind it, I always question motives and what's going. Okay, first I said, when you say the government, there is no such thing anymore. There's no government. We're in a state of chaos. All right, guys, that brings us to the end of part one of my conversation with Jack Sarfati. That's right.

We have an entire second part of this conversation dropping next week. Jack and I get deep into the new UFO whistleblower disclosures. some black budget DARPA programs, and Jack is going to illustrate exactly how his UFO warp drive equation works. You're not going to want to miss it. Please hit the subscribe button as well as the bell so you can get notified as soon as the episode drops. I'll see you next week.