Danny Jones Podcast - #223 - Disturbing CIA Document Finally Confirms JFK Coverup | John Newman

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Watch next weeks episode early: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Dr. Newman is a retired U.S. Army intelligence officer who served as a strategic intelligence cryptologic analyst before accepting a special two-year appointment to become Military Assistant to the Director, General William Odom at the National Security Agency. He is an expert in Far Eastern studies, a scholar of Christian Theology and comparative religions, a historian and educator. SPONSORS https://babbel.com/danny - Get 50% off a one-time payment for a lifetime subscription. https://mudwtr.com/danny - Use code "danny" for 15% off. https://betterhelp.com/dannyjones - Get 10% off your first month. EPISODE LINKS John's books - https://amzn.to/456nIQC John's YouTube - @ghostsofthespywars John's website - https://jfkjmn.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 0:00:00 - Pick-pocketed by CIA 00:10:18 - CIA & the Mafia 00:14:33 - The coverup 00:19:32 - FBI & Oswald 00:22:23 - Vietnam 00:31:28 - Undeniable evidence 00:43:43 - J. Edgar Hoover 00:49:07 - The Trojan Horse: General Maxwell Taylor 00:53:27 - The nuclear plan 01:02:39 - Military coup d'état 01:09:00 - Allen Dulles & Nazi secrets 01:14:03 - LBJ's knowledge 01:23:44 - Tonkin Gulf & Louse 01:36:11 - Berlin conflict 01:42:50 - Khrushchev & Cuba 01:52:23 - Mongoose & Northwoods 02:00:52 - 7 Days in May film 02:03:34 - How MLK & JFK saved the world 02:31:34 - Yoga 02:39:57 - War of the ice ages Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Didn't you say, what was the story that you got your phone pickpocketed somewhere after a conference? Yes, it was. Was that in Dallas? It was in Dallas. It was a big event probably in the 90s. And I was uncovering a huge misdirection that nobody knew about. It was a guy named Antonio Vessiana. And he was allegedly, they say he was working for the CIA the whole time.

He was in Cuba first. He was a banker and then joined a CIA managed thing. The MRP doesn't matter what that stands for. But and then they didn't like it. The MRP, including him, didn't like it because once they took the money from the CIA, they had to do whatever the CIA said. He didn't like that. So he came to the United States.

and he started telling the CIA lies and he stole their money and did stuff like that. He wasn't working for the CIA anymore, but everybody thought he did. And what he was working for was the military. And what he was doing right during the Cuban Missile Crisis was sinking Russian ships to start World War III. Because the military wanted him to do that. And I figured that out and I had tons of evidence, tons of evidence that was released. All of his friends, his best friends all said the same thing about, they put him in jail for a long while. Because a lot of those CIA guys were running dope, you know, in South American stuff.

So they had it on everybody. And so what they do sometimes, if they want to use somebody, say, okay, here's what you're going to do for us. And if he says, no, okay, he can put him in jail. and so he ended up in jail and way late like 19 no not 19 20 something

and no it was it was 1976 why were the so many CIA guys running dope because it's fungible money it doesn't exist and they do lots of operations that way it's a really

It's a really screwed up system. But look, we're not going to talk about that. What I want to tell you is, is that when they put him in jail and they let him out really early, they busted him for 25 kilos of cocaine. 25 kilos is what he had that particular day. And that gets you about two non-consequent. 12-year terms instantly. So he was going to be locked up for at least 12 years, if not more than that. And they let him out in about less than two years. And there was no reason why. And so that was missing. Somebody walked into the, it was a penitentiary and walked in there and said something.

And next thing you know, he's out. And what they did was they said, you've got, here's what you've got to say. You've got to say that you're working for the CIA the whole time. And he said, fine. The problem with that was there was so much evidence to the contrary. So he struggled for years to make that work because that's what they forced him to do. And, but while he was still alive, and he wrote a book about it to you, he's got a book, Vesiana does. How do you say his last name? V-E-C-I-A-A-A. V-E-C-I-A. Vesiana. Vessiana.

Okay. So Antonio Vesiana did, got, you know, they went ahead and arrested him and they let him out when he did what they wanted to do. But the problem with that was me because I was sitting there looking at all of his friends said that he made that story up to get out of jail. All of them. And they, and his friends were working for the FBI. And you can't lie to the FBI. And so. That was the time that this happened, this event where they took my phone out of my possession and put it back in.

Beautiful pickpocket arranged stuff. I didn't even know what happened. Wow. Okay. But what I was able to do was to get a hold of... In the 90s, what would your phone look like? Oh, this was after the iPhone was out. Yeah.

I think probably 2008, 2009 in there. Okay. It was just cutting dry. and the problem was so many people what they did, here's what they did to get people to believe this. Hey guys, I want to ask you a quick favor. Over the last few months,

almost 70% of the viewers of this podcast are not subscribed to the channel. The most important common denominator that allows me to keep creating these podcasts every single week is you hitting that subscribe button below the videos. I want to thank every single one of you who watches and supports these podcasts.

I would not be able to do that. do without you. Please hit that subscribe button if you enjoy it. Now back to the show. So they say that David Atley Phillips, who everybody thought was a big guy in the CIA that was behind or involved in the Kennedy assassination. David Atley Phillips. I don't think I've ever even heard that name. Yeah, but if you were if you're a JFK nut, you would know all about it. because he meets Vessiana in a hotel in Dallas, Texas. And that is where Oswald is there for the meeting. And this is only months before the Kennedy assassination.

So it looks like they're plotting that this guy is plotting Kennedy's murder. So they put Vesiana and Phillips in the same office area of a big bank in Dallas together, the three of them. So that's proof. That's proof that Phillips was in on it. And he's a big CIA guy. So everybody after that said the CIA killed Kennedy. I wrote a little song to remind you. Get you more of the experiences.

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Vesiana was working for the military and all shit hit the fan. And so, and I was there, that was the first, now I've been talking about it in a couple of small things, but this was a great big convention that particular year. And everybody knew that I was going to discuss Antonio Vesiana story. This was one of the biggest misdirections ever because you can't figure out the Armageddon that was that was under underway at the time. That's what it was, that's what they were trying to do, was to blow the planet, not to blow the planet up, but to blow all the, you know, the Russia, China, all those, those countries.

And, and so Vessiana was a way to help pin this on the CIA. You don't know who's actually behind all this, this Armageddon stuff going on. It's the military. and he was working for the military the whole time. So they wanted people to think it was the CIA. Yes. Wow. Yes.

Just before I went in to do my presentation, I went into the bookroom, and I didn't know when I came out that I had no longer had my phone. I found that out after the presentation was over. And they put it back in. In your pocket? In your bag? carry bag. Oh, okay, got you. Cari bag.

Gotcha. And so when it was over, everybody lines up to talk to me, right? And I'm still on the dais. And there's this guy. And it looks like he's in his late 50s wearing a jacket and slacks, no tie or anything, and his mostly gray hair. Just regular looking guy. And he says, you're okay.

You're okay. It's okay. They just want to know what you know. You're good. don't worry and I didn't know that I had my phone back and I found that later so there I missed I

put two things together there were actually a couple of events in between and Apple actually located the my phone was somewhere in the building like straight up so we knew it was in the building yeah wow anyway they put it back in what did you do after he told you that

I didn't know what to make of it I thought this guy was a crazy guy And by the, it took me about a year or so to really figure out what that means. Yeah, because, yeah, I just, I didn't get it that, that they were that interested in me, right? I hadn't gotten that far in terms of any notoriety or anything like that. So, yeah, but that's what happened. That's what they wanted. And then I had other things happen to me later on when people, XEI people would say stuff to me that was good.

You know, that there were times when they actually applauded what I was doing and give me some information. And I did that with another researcher whose name I forget right now. But anyway, I've went through a lot of things in a lot of years. And it was apparent to me that the old guard was not involved. and there were involvements of the CIA but very, very seldom was it ever an assassination

because they don't do that. They don't kill people very well. Who doesn't? The CIA. They don't shoot people. But they tried to get Well, the paramilitary branch does. Yeah, you can say that if you want.

But the thing is... I mean, they conducted a lot of assassinations over the years. Yeah, but it's not the same thing that we're talking about here. Okay, so there are all kinds of things in some of those small countries in the Caribbean and elsewhere down there. Dominican Republic.

Yeah. So, but they're not CIA people. They're agents working for the CIA. And so they never get, they can't be prosecuted for it because they didn't do any shooting. But they had, there was one time when they tried to use the CIA in, in, in, um, a shooting, which was, who was it? This guy was a mobster, and I'm forgetting his name right now.

Okay. But they decided, is it Giancana? It was the other Giancana. One of the big mobsters, they wanted, it wasn't Giancana, but they wanted to kill him. Wanted to kill who? The mobster. Who, the CIA, wait, wait, I'm lost, who wanted to kill the mobster? The CIA.

The CIA wanted to kill the mobster. Yeah, got it, okay. That's right. And so they hired some people to do it. And what happened was the people that were in on that were a bunch of mobsters. And they didn't do the killing because they realized that since the CIA had hired them to do murder, they could do anything they wanted for the rest of their lives.

It was the goose to glade the golden egg and the CIA was so stupid to hire a bunch of those people because they didn't do the killing. It was to kill Castro. It was to kill Castro to use the mob to kill Castro and they hired him.

They hired these people to do it. And they said to themselves, this is great. And so they started doing stuff and they got busted and arrested and then Bobby Kennedy had to step in and say, you can't prosecute. You can't prosecute. Why not?

Well, because it's going to unravel what we're doing with the CIA. Now, that is the one time that I know that there was a deliberate plan at the highest levels in the CIA, not just some freaks, you know, running around and paying some. some guys down in Guatemala like that. But yeah, that was, and they learned their lesson because they were never able to prosecute them for anything. And they had all kinds of stuff going on because of it. And eventually they realized that that was the absolute wrong thing to do because

you don't hire a mob to do assassinations. You can hire somebody else that you can actually push around, but you can't push around. Look, the mobsters are big guys who are connected to all kinds of power, right? And that was a stupid move that they made. So you want to hire, if you want somebody to die, you have plenty of people over there in the Pentagon that will take care of that for you. In the Pentagon? Yeah. Sure.

But they do it and get away with it because they're that good. Right. They have, you know, they have sniper teams. Right. So the reason I wanted to bring you back, John, is because we got a lot to cover. We covered a lot of Pop-Pov's mole the last time you were here, which was fascinating. And I wanted to cover more of what was going on behind the scenes leading up to the assassination of JFK. Yep. And like we were talking about yesterday, one of the frustrating things is all you see in the media or on the Internet when you search for the JFK assassination is people talking about what happened on November. Number 22nd, 1963 in Dealey Plaza. And you don't talk about that day very much. Yeah, I will be talking more about it, but it's, it's, you have to understand that, that what happens there is the cover-up.

It's not the, the, the real story is who decided that Kennedy was going to be cashiered and how they got away with it. so if all you do is start talking about you know the bullet went here and there was and the the head was this way and and you argue about that incessantly people love that though because it's so much more attractive to talk about that stuff except they argue with each other and they're venal I mean it's crazy people start arguing about the brains and body body parts and everything else and tons of of arguments about exactly the head was this way and the throat wound and the one in the back they moved it somebody moved it up it was Gerald Ford who became a president that guy moves the the back wound

up so it can fit with somebody's single bullet theory so they give all kinds of things and then what this causes is people to keep talking about that stuff and arguing about that stuff now some people are smarter than others but there are only a handful of that can actually deal with forensics because they're trained in forensics. We have hundreds of people who have no training in forensics arguing about it all the time on the Internet. Okay, so understand that this is what is so frustrating. And nobody is paying attention to who was behind it and how they got away with it. That's what the CIA did most of was the cover up to put it in place beforehand and not tell the head of the CIA.

At that time, McCone. They had no idea what they were doing. So this is not the whole CIA. It's a rogue element that is actually just operating with how to get away with the plan. In other words, how are you going to shoot the president? And once that happens, nothing's going to happen. In fact, the FBI and the CIA are going to be scared to do anything at all. There was no investigation except for the Warren report.

Right. And Earl Warren went along with a top secret deal that they made, which was he was told that it was, the hit was done by Castro and the KGB, and Oswald was the shooter. And so if the truth got out, the American people would instantly demand war in 40,000 millions, excuse me, 40 million Americans were going to die. That story was actually put before Earl Warren and he eventually caved in and said, okay, now that you put it that way, I guess I'll have to take the job. You see, he's a chief justice, and this is an executive commission. We're supposed to have, you know, a separation between those two parts of our government. So what if something happens in the chief justice has to recuse himself? because there's litigation.

He didn't want to do it for obvious reasons. But they told him, and LB.J. I just told him a little story about Mexico City, and he cried. And then he said, okay, I'll have to take the story. And believe it or not. Who cried? Earl Warren. Or Earl Warren.

Yeah. When he was being bamboozled and pushed around, you know, to go along with this story. Wow. And so he actually vouched for the story himself. Earl Warren did on TV. Right. Where I live, WETA in Washington,

the only thing he left out was he cried. The rest of it was they said, Mr. President, it's going to be 40 million dead Americans if you don't do this. And he said on TV. I guess, I better take the job if that's the case. Now, therefore, there was a non-investigation.

That was the whole point is to kill the president and there's no investigation. There's just some stuff that the FBI makes of. And of course, yes, who Hoover is going to say all kinds of stuff to make sure that the FBI has nothing to do with anything. And they did, as you will know, as you've seen some of the slides that I will deal with today, show how the FBI lowered Oswald's threat profile so that he could be on the parade route. Right. And when Hoover found out about that, he went sky high.

And so, but Hoover was the one who got to put the report together, and you can believe that the FBI didn't have anything to do with it because Hoover doesn't want that, right? So it scared the CIA, a lot of people in the CIA that had been watching Oswald. And the public thing was, oh, he was, Oh, he was a lone nut, and we never touched the CIA. We, the CIA, never had anything to do with him.

We weren't even interested in him. And when, in fact, there were tons of people who were in the CIA and the FBI and elsewhere in the government that were keeping files on Oswald the entire time all the way back to 1959 and all the way up to 1963. And all this information has been declassified? Yes, we know a lot about that now. That's so wild. We know a lot about that now. And so, yes. So now the official position of the CIA, as far as I can understand it, is no comment. They used to deny everything. It has been declassified, but no comment. If you want to go dig through the paperwork. They're the not declassifying. It was taken away from them by the JFK Records Act. There were a group of people that couldn't ever have worked in Washington were put in charge, the assassination records review.

board and those are the people who decided what would be declassified and what wouldn't be. And of course, the CIA would be begging, you know, not do this or not do that, but they couldn't, they didn't have the power. So there was a lot of declassification going on. And so that's why I'm telling you that there are current people in the CIA that don't want me saying what's been declassified because they don't want anybody to know about that. Do you realize the people that I'm teaching in my school now were born in the 21st century. They have no recollection of any of this stuff that we're talking about. So if I talk about

it now, I'm informing a new generation of people about what happened back then. What do you think is the most damning evidence against the government or against the military in general or against the CIA in general that you've found through all of your research? Like, what is the most the last six weeks of Kennedy? The last six weeks of Kennedy's life. The last six weeks, all the the suppression of the 201 files. There are at least four, if not five different sets of activities that took place at the same time, all at the same time that ended up in Kennedy's murder and had to. Otherwise, Oswald wouldn't have been on the parade route for one thing. And there are many other reasons why.

We're getting ahead of this. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Okay. So in your view, what is the most important pieces, piece or piece? of evidence that have that you have revealed in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy? Okay, it's a very large operation. It took a long time to prepare. I've been working on it probably for 12 years, planning to publish, and it keeps moving downstream because I keep finding other things, especially about spy services that make it better. And so, but making it better could go on forever. So November of last year I started, went to DeKane University and gave a 40-minute presentation for the first time on what I think happened.

The assassination of President Kennedy and how they got away with it. And so today we're going to get deeper into that. And hopefully I can use you as well as what I have here to have a conversation where we don't go too deep. because each one of these slides has a ton of material that goes behind it, and we could be here for a week talking about it. So I'm going to start by saying that there are a confluence of events that took place in the last six weeks of Kennedy's life. So we're talking about September,

about the time that Taylor and McNamara come back from a Vietnam tour. And so, but some of the antecedents were taking place earlier, some very much earlier, but I'm going to mention one of them now because it's about Armageddon and it's O'Plan 34A, which is on our screen here. Now, O'Plan 34A has a history here, and it starts out with the Joint Chief of Staff ordering the Commander-in-Chief Pacific, he's right there on your screen, and Admiral Felt, to prepare plans for South Vietnamese operations against North Vietnam. And so that started to take place in May of 1963 at a Secretary of Defense conference. At the beginning, when SinkPack, the Commander

and Chief Pacific put this together, it was a Sinkpack operational plan, 3463 to 63 is for 1963. Over time, it changes. And so what happens is at that particular sective conference, this guy here who's Lieutenant General Kruelak, who is a Saxa guy, he's for a different kind of warfare. And he was at a very high level. in the Pentagon, but he came to that Secretary of Defense Conference, which is very interesting why he would even be there participating, but he's the one

who put forward the proposal to do this for Sync Pack. And so it's reported at that conference separately by this man, General Krulak.

Now, the problem with it, Saxa stands for a special assistant for counter insurgency activities. That was his job high up in the in the Pentagon. But what happened was it disappeared. This piece, the rest of the of that conference was was is you know can be you can look at it. But the problem with with the op plan it went away and the state department heard about it and said we can't find it. It's gone. There's no such thing. There's no such report has been found. Well, of course. it couldn't be found because as soon as Krulek briefed it, it was made secret and taken out of

so nobody could see it. How did you find it? Well, because we have it now. But that's what happened at the time. That's what happened at the time. This was declassified later. Yes. We have the op plan, etc.

But anyway, at the time, they didn't want anybody to know about it. Right. And you know how long it took before people knew about this particular plan? How long? Two days before Kennedy was murdered at another sex-death conference on 20 November, 1963. In Honolulu, yes. That's how long they kept this secret. But that's when it really started in May.

In May, okay. Okay. And so in the end, this guy here, General Maxwell Taylor, is going to be the one who puts it into play after Kennedy is dead. He was the one who went with McNamara to Vietnam in September and came back. And on the way back, they had the plan which said that what Kennedy wanted, which was to start the withdrawal of American advisors from Vietnam that year. He comes back and they're at Honolulu on the way back home, right? They went to Vietnam, stopped over in Honolulu, and on the way there, there's this guy from the State Department who says,

he was actually working in the embassy in Vietnam. And he said, look, we're not taking people out. We're going to put more people in. If you guys are going to do this, I'm going to do a dissenting opinion. And so they said, Taylor said, fine. We'll take it out. And they did. And so you have a copy of the report as it stood at Honolulu.

Lulu and there's no withdrawal of advisors. It's gone. The stopover in Honolulu is on the 20th? No. Okay. It's way before. It's not way before. It's very soon before.

It's just a stopover. It's a couple of days. But they take it out. And we have a copy of the way that it looked in because we know it was out. But when they get back in its end of September, it's late September, they get back. They go into the Oval Office. And there's a lot of people there for the brief. Okay.

And they get up, the two of them, Kennedy and Taylor get up and McNamara, get up and walk to the next room, and they put the withdrawal plan back in. And they come back out and debrief everybody. They took it. Okay, let me recap. So in Honolulu, the guy who was at the embassy in Saigon basically said, if you guys say you want to take people out of Saigon, I'm. I'm going to write a dissenting opinion and cause a shit show. And they said, okay, okay, fine. We're going to take it out.

We'll take it out of the plan. And then when they go back to the Oval Office to meet Kennedy and McNamara, they slide Kennedy's plan back in. McNamara is there, right? So McNamara was there and so was Taylor. Oh, so McNamara knew about this. Yes. But what he didn't know is that these guys wanted not to do it. But if Taylor starts saying, I disagree with what you're doing, then he's going to give himself away.

He knows that he's going to be the one doing it. Right. And everybody is completely flummoxed by it. And there's a lot of dissension going on in the room. And the rest of the day down in the basement of the White House, it's the same thing. People are saying, this is crazy. Because no one else. We can't take people out.

We can't take people out of Vietnam. That's right. So that's what's going. on? Now, Taylor doesn't raise his voice about anything. He's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff. He's the one who gets to make decisions about these types of things. And so what he does for the next six weeks of Kennedy's life is to gut the withdrawal plan and at the same time, stand up plan 34A. Secretly, both of those things he did behind McNamara and Kennedy's back for those last six weeks of his life.

Macdonair didn't even know. No. Okay. They didn't tell McNamara. MacDemar was on Kennedy's side. Okay. Got it. I didn't know that.

Taylor was supposed to be. But he wasn't. He was waiting for his moment. And that's what they did. And it's terrible. The data that I can show you that what was left out of the plan is like 78% of it was gone. Wow. And we can get into the details of it.

But anyway, that is one thing that was going on in those six weeks. and we got three or four more to lay right beside him. So all these things had to happen at the same time in order for this to work. So we'll go ahead and move to the next piece of evidence, which is what are we going to do with Oswald? Number three, lowering Oswald's threat level. At Vanderbilt University on May 18, 1963, John F. Kennedy said, our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our progress in education. Continuous learning is what makes our country so great.

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It's linked below. Now back to the show. This was very sinister. Well, because if Oswald, who was a communist defector, right, back in 1959, and at this time, what is he doing? He's down in Mexico City trying to defect a second time. Right. All right? To the Soviet Union through Cuba, right? Yeah.

And it says in his passport that he, that's illegal. You can go back if you want to the Soviet Union. but you can't go through Cuba. So what does he do? He goes down and says, I want to go through Cuba. But the problem with this is that a two-time communist defector in an overview position of the parade route, you can't imagine that happening because the Secret Service removes anybody who's on the list of people that are a threat. They have to take them off. The security list. The security list. The security. index it's called. Okay. And so we to get to to now the FBI is the one that does that, not the CIA, but the CIA is taking care of business here by lowering his threat profile. And so it was October

when he was in Mexico City trying to defect. Yes. And he and what happened was the the person in the embassy in Mexico City called up CIA, right? And they said there's this guy down here. He's trying to His name is Wynn Scott. Wins Scott. He's in charge down there, Mexico City, and he doesn't know who this guy Oswald is, and he's going all around to these communist consulates. And he asks, who is this guy? Right.

And so a lot of people knew what Oswald was doing in New Orleans. He was on the news. He was in a courtroom, and he was put in a jail, and Hoover wrote letterhead memoranda that summer to the CIA. But guess what happened to it? It got filed in places where nobody could find it at the CIA, except for a couple of people. And here's my evidence right here.

These, what we're looking at here is a combination of things. Where did you find this? These are declassified documents. Okay. And these are the pieces of them. These are the routing and record sheets that shows everybody in the CIA who actually saw these things that Hoover sent. and and they had to initial with their initials and date. So we know who actually had access to it.

And it's only a few people. It's only like three or four people in the whole CIA. And one of them was Jane Romance. She was the, she was the liaison for counterintelligence in the CIA. Picture this. Me, Reese Witherspoon in London. Ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me. and paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo

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the best? Add Egglands Best, Superior Nutrition to your next grocery list. Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. And so she had access to it. You can see counterintelligence lays on right here, and there's Jane Roman. There's her little initials. Okay. And that was on this report here. This report was about everything Oswald was doing in Dallas. and so on. And this is the next one that came in. And this is in October, okay? September and October. This stuff is coming. It's dated here, but you can see the people are signing off on it in October over here. It's going and making the rounds. And these are the people that know. And so. These are just reports on his activities in these in Dallas and in New Orleans. That's right. So, so. And Mexico City. that's right

they're trying to figure out what's happening down there in Mexico City now what ends up happening is that when who's going to answer the call or the cable at CIA and at

FBI let's do the CIA first and so it's a guy by the name of John Witten he's the guy who has the desk at CIA headquarters to communicate with Winn Scott that's his job he's got the Mexico City desk. So he's the one who has to tell Win Scott who this guy is.

Okay. And he says, oh, he looks at the 201 file for the guy and says, yeah. Well, our latest headquarters information is May 62. Oswald is still in the Soviet Union in May 62. It's all gone. He's the guy who's supposed to know what's happening and who can answer the question. But it's all gone. So nobody in the CIA except for these few people know about it.

So that's when I decided to go see Jane Roman. Jeff Morley and I went over. We got our address on Rock Creek Park. And I showed her these documents, what were behind the routing sheets, the actual documents that Hoover sent. And I said, you remember reading this? And she said, yeah, sure. I remember reading it. And we talked about that.

I got her to remember everything that she read on these things. and you signed off on them. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I did. I said, well, why did you sign off on this one down here? Latest headquarters information is May 62, when you were signing off on these things in October or 63. And then her mouth smiled.

And, you know, the size went up towards the ears. And she said, okay, okay, this is what she said. Yes, I'm signing off on something I know isn't true. Wow. She took a lot of heat for that, too. Really? Yes, she did. They really made her life difficult.

Anyway, so I asked her, I said, well, why would you do this? Why, why? What do you think about this false cable that Wooden wrote? And she says to me, well, to me, it's indicative of a keen interest in Oswald held very closely on a need-to-know basis. What that does is it blows through countless years of denial that they had in. interest in Oswald at all. I mean, look at it. Yeah. This is the liaison person at the highest levels who's saying she's admitting she lied. She's, she's admitting that the United States Central Intelligence Agency had a keen interest in Oswald held very closely on a need-to-know basis.

Right. That's why they were mad at her because she let the, you know, she let it out. Okay. So it's important to understand this is going on. So, so, and that's why I like to show you this, this, this picture here. That's the book depository. And so if, if Oswald's up here and this guy is a two-time commie defector and a Castro, a Castro guy, what's he doing up there? He should be, he should be on the security index. And, you know, here he is with, with, with,

the rifle that was supposedly used up there in his backyard being a so-called picture taken by Marina, his wife. But the shadows are all wrong and everything's on. Anyway, I like to just put this down here at the bottom of that picture, a flea at a Lysol party. A flea at a Lysol party. Yeah. Uh-huh. In other words, the odds of this being true that this guy is supposed to be up there is about like what happened to a flea at a Lysol convention. It doesn't happen.

It's crazy. It's stupid. So I thought I'd make a little joke of that, okay? Just for some humor. But it's not humorous, actually, because Kennedy's going to die. Anyway, so... But they completely removed any sort of threat level on the FBI and the CIA. So he could have been there.

We've done the CIA. Now comes the next one. Comes the FBI. We have independent attestation of the same hoax going on at CIA and FBI. So veteran FBI supervisor, his name is Marvin Giesling, was assigned to handle the same unexpected cable for Mexico City as, as Whitten did. He worked for the FBI's espionage division for a long time, and he had been put in charge of Oswald's FBI espionage file when he defected the Soviet Union back in 1959. Okay. At that time, Gisling immediately put Oswald on what they called a flash stop.

on anything in that file. You couldn't read it and you couldn't put anything in there without his permission because he was going to own that and it was very, very sensitive for lots of reasons that all these United States

and the State Department and the Navy and everybody else had gone crazy. This is October 1959. Okay? But the problem is now we go forward to 1963.

Exactly four years after Oswald's defection, Gisling, too, had to reply to the request from Scott. Scott from Mexico City. Yeah, that's right. Win Scott. And incredibly, after all those years, including all of Oswald's lures in Mexico, and his Castro capers in New Orleans, Gisling swallows hard because he knows. See, Witten didn't know, right?

Because Winton had the 201 file. He didn't lie. The 201 file lied to him because everything was taken out of it. Right. Okay. Over here, this guy knows because he's got. the file. He's got the whole file on Oswald going all the way back to its 59. He was the one in charge of it. So he does the same thing. But he has to swallow hard when he does it because he knows what he's

doing. Right? He's straight up lies. He takes this shocking act of avoiding Oswald threat status by removing the flash stop. So now the red light stopped spinning in the FBI about Oswald. There's no, you know, so he's okay. So he's not on the the security index. Therefore, he's not removed from the parade route. The FBI is the one charged with doing this. So what happens when Mexico City desk calls Gisling? He tells him that there's nothing to worry about. And he knows there is. What was their question? They say this guy's trying to defect. Who is he? Well, he doesn't say very much. He just says here, he removes the flash stop on on Oswald. Anyway, the point is that,

what we do know about this is when Hoover found out what he did. Hoover punished him for his perfidy and disciplined many more agents because they didn't react to Scott's memo. So essentially they're not doing the same. They're not saying very much, right? He's not, Marvin Gisling is not saying very much. He has the memo from when Scott asking the question, what does he do? he doesn't say very much to win Scott but he takes Oswald you know and puts in removes the

flash so Oswald is now no longer going to be on the security index right now you have the the red the flashing red lights turned off in the CIA and the FBI look and this is October and why did Gisling do this why do you why do you suspect Gisling did this okay here's my answer. Now, by the way, here's the proof right here. You can see this, this is a document that was declassified. You can see that

the flash was put on, the stop was put on back in 1959 when Oswald was in, in, he was in the Soviet Union. Yeah, right, right, right. He's done that. And now here we are in October 9th, 1963. And when it's, when it's, when it's, flash is canceled. So that's when he's in Mexico

City in September 9. Yes. And now to answer your question, why Gisling was never deposed and asked directly why he removed Oswald from the FBI's espionized list or who told him to do it is one of the crucial lingering questions unsolved and the assassination of President Kennedy. Nobody knows. He was never deposed. Nobody ever asked. He was disciplined. But by Hoover. Yes. And a lot of other people were too. But that was the end of it. Hoover doesn't want any of this stuff to come out. That's fucking crazy. So, This is work with what we have.

And that's what we're seeing here. Now, these are two things that I've already described. We know what Taylor's up to. Look, they got back. It just, it was the end of September. So it was in early October that N-SAM 263, Kennedy put there secretly at first. What was N-SAM-263?

The withdrawing of 1,000 U.S. advisors from Vietnam by the end of 19. And all out by 65. And that was what was taken out of the plan in Honolulu and then put back into the plan when they showed the president in. Yeah. And it had everybody very upset. Because nobody wanted to withdraw from Vietnam except for Kennedy. He was the only one. Yeah.

Well, McNamara was going to help him do that. Right, right. Okay. Yeah. And at the same simultaneously, the FBI and the CIA are lowering Oswald's threat on their espionage list. Did you ask Jane Roman what her opinion was on this whole thing? I did. And she told me the answer.

This is indicative of very high level keen interest in Oswald on a need-to-know basis. Nobody. That's what she said. She's essentially like the closest living person to this whole cover-up. Well, and Geishling is too. Is he still alive? Oh, I don't know if he's alive or not right now. Probably not.

and she might she's probably dead too oh you think okay well and chances are how long ago how long ago was that when you talked to her maybe 2000s yeah 2000s so let's let's go to some of the other things that were happening at the same time the Buddhist crisis uh is one of the things that started Kennedy on changing his mind about a lot of things he hadn't done much for Martin Luther King even though he helped get him in office and he was, MLK was angry over that. Kennedy didn't do anything about civil rights. He didn't do anything about detente with the Soviet Union.

And he didn't do anything about getting out of Vietnam. He wanted to get out of Vietnam, but he thought he could wait until he got reelected. But the problem was this thing right here. Yeah, where the Buddhist lit himself on fire? Yeah. The political bottom dropped out in Vietnam. Right. So he had, so what he was faced with,

was he had to accelerate the withdrawal plan instead of it starting in 50, after the election in late 64, it was now going to have to start right away to get it cast in concrete, as he said. And so he went to, you know, to American University and gave this speech nobody knew was coming about Daytona with the Soviet Union. And then the very next night he goes on TV and tells, it says how terrible it's been. and he hasn't done anything on civil rights and he wants to do that now. And it was a long speech and very,

it's an amazing speech. And so the only thing he didn't say publicly was the withdrawal stuff because that was secret. And he didn't put it into an ensam until they got back. He sent McNamara and Taylor over there to look around, come back and recommend

that it was time to get out. And they did. And Taylor did. He participated in that even though he was, He knew what he was going to, he was going to do the opposite. He is, as I say, he's a Trojan horse inside the house. Okay. Now, you, there's an important element to Taylor.

He was one of the only generals who cozyed up to, was it Bobby Kennedy? So he became very close family friends with Bobby Kennedy. And that's why you say he was a Trojan horse because he wanted to be the one that was liked by them and trusted by them and became. I think Bobby Kennedy named one of his children after Maxwell Taylor, right? He mailed Maxwell. Yeah, Maxwell Kennedy, yeah, exactly. Kennedy brought Taylor into the fold to lead, along with Robert Kennedy, as brother, who was the Attorney General, a review of the fiasco, the Bay of Pigs. And why did Kennedy bring Taylor in?

Because he thought the Taylor was better than the other generals, because he advocated less reliant. on the old doctrine of massive nuclear retaliation in response to any Soviet attack. He thought Taylor favored what he called flexible response in war. Flexible response. Yeah. So you didn't have to use nuclear weapons every time you got into a firefight. Right. Well, but like other joint chiefs and staff, he was a hawk who favored intervention of Vietnam. He didn't say much about it because he was kissing Bobby's ass most of the time and getting into the family,

just, you know, working as a aid, a military aid to Kennedy, it was much more than that. And so that's where the Trojan horse starts. And he does something he's not supposed to do at the end of 61. Kennedy sends him to Vietnam to recommend no combat troops. Kennedy sent him there, wrote him a letter and everything, and ordered him to go over there and come back and say, we don't need combat troops. And guess what he did? He comes back and says, we do need combat troops under the flood release task force cover.

He got, so he lost his duties. Kennedy fired him from doing anything on Vietnam at the time, but still let him do his other jobs. So Kennedy got really, really mad, but he didn't, he didn't completely get rid of him because he was friends of the family. Right. Okay. So he got to stay in. Well, what happens is in 62 is MacV replaces the advisory effort. And guess who gets, Harkins gets made the MACV chief, and he is a protege of Taylor.

So Taylor gets his hands on Vietnam anyway in 62. Got it. And then when Lemnitzer goes away, and he becomes the Joint Chief of staff. He was helping with the investigation of the Bay of Pigs. Right. Now, when they got through with that investigation, Kennedy asked him to take over the CIA. Right. He asked Taylor to take over the CIA.

He said, no. my wife and I are tired of having to travel all the time. I don't think I want to do that. If you have anything for me that's military, I'd be happy to do it. And so that's when he becomes the military guy. And that's why Kennedy sends him to say, to Vietnam come back and say we don't need combat troops. So even though he gets fired from that particular duty,

he ends up getting his fingers into the Vietnam thing because his protege is put in charge. And then when Lemnitzer leaves in the middle of 62, again, they try something else. They want to give him Sack Yer. They want to give Taylor to go over to NATO and become head of all the Supreme Allied Commander of Europe. And he says, no, I don't want to do that either.

So he got what he wanted. The whole time he wanted, excuse me, is Vietnam. And he got it finally. And his man is there. So he's just waiting for all these things to happen, and then guess what happens in the last six weeks? He guts the withdrawal plan and supplants it with our plan 34A, which is going to start in Vietnam. But look, they're talking about, and we haven't talked about all these other places that limits are on these guys want to fight. It's in Laos.

It's in Cuba. It's in Vietnam. And they want to do all these things together at the same time. How in the hell are you going to fight? fight with all these places. We don't have enough troops to actually fight more than one battle and even that is going to have to call up the reserves. And the answer is simple. We're not going to fight with ground forces. We're going to use nuclear weapons everywhere. It's Armageddon time. That's what they wanted. And we know because they briefed Kennedy on that back in July

1961, that that's what we needed to do, was a massive surprise attack on the Soviet Union, but don't do it till the fall of 63 because at that time we'll have the most ICBMs and they'll have nothing. It's when the very moment that we have the mostest and they have the leased that we want to do this huge attack. Can you walk us through this meeting? This was the SIEP? Yes, we can go back and look at that meeting. audience, the people that are listening, walk us through that meeting. You said it was in 61 in July. Where was it? Who was there?

And what was the objective of that meeting? Okay. The objective was to bring Kennedy on board for basically what I would call an Armageddon strike. They didn't think of it that way because they didn't realize it was going to blow the earth up. I mean, they did not understand what was going on with it. So I will take you back to that. This is the briefing given to him in July 1961. The briefing. So he wasn't there? He was there.

He was there. It was the time for a Psiop brief, okay, that started in the Eisenhower administration. Eisenhower said, oh, my God, this is terrible. But that's a different story. He was able to get through without having his generals push him around because he was a five-star general, but not Kennedy. Eisenhower was. That's right. So they were started that in late in the second Eisenhower administration. And what is SIOP stand for? It's SIOP, not psychological operations. Strategic integrated operational plan for nuclear warfare. Okay. That's what it is. Started during Eisenhower.

And here comes the first one for Kennedy in July 1961, July 20th, to be precise. and so they tell him and in fact they should be briefing the 1962 saw but they're not this is a special one because Kennedy's on he's on his nadir the Bay of Pigs has happened Khrushchev is pushing him around at the Vienna

for the to take Berlin back and things like that and so they decide that he's at his weakest point and so they thought now was the time to strike and so they briefed him on this thing on this this this massive uh siop in that to take place in 19 the fall of 1963 fall of 1963 how many times do I have to say that right the fall of 1963 um and so um Kennedy just gets up and walks out and says and we call ourselves the human race so um that's a no go right it's not going to happen

But guess what? In the fall of 1963, that idea is still alive. And can you expand on the idea exactly? What do we wanted to send ICBMs to what countries? We, the two main countries were the Soviet Union and China, which is a large part of the world. And there were other countries like Albania simply because it had. What? Yeah, well, Albania was in the Soviet orbit and they had a big radar.

that the Soviets wanted to use for things. And so, you know, and he was asked, Lemmister was asked about Albania, and he just said, I don't know, because they're in the plan. And then Kennedy asked him about, you know, why about China? I don't see that China did it attack us, and Lemitur was impudent. And he said, it's in the plan, sir.

That's all they would say. He didn't answer the question. It's in the plan. That's how Lemitra was with him. He talked down to Kennedy all the time. Yeah, he hated Kennedy. You want to see the evidence of that? This is a picture that tells a thousand words.

This is when he did not keep him on. God, that's right. This is a dagger stare at Kennedy, and what is he doing? He's wincing. His eyes are almost shut. And look who's smirking. in the background. Taylor?

As Taylor. He knows he's up next. He's on deck right now. What is going on in that photo? He's being given his medal. Okay. Kennedy's giving him a medal and sending him over to Europe as the Supreme Metal Commander of Europe.

And he's mad. Because he lost his job as the duh. Yeah, he wanted to stay on. Because that's what he wanted to be around for the fireworks. Was Johnson in that sense? siot meeting? Yes, he was, actually. It was difficult for me to find.

There are things by good people who've written books about Burris, who was Johnson's LBJ's supposedly his aide. He wasn't. He was his case officer. That's a whole other story. But anyway, so, yeah. Johnson's case officer. Yeah.

But it was thought for a while that Johnson did not attend because he was drunk that morning but he did because i have i have the the records that show he did attend that sirep briefing that morning he did do we know what his reaction to it was no how many people did they estimate would be killed by that nuclear attack did they have did they have exact casualty or did they have rough casualty estimations yes they did they did they estimate whether or not a potential ICBM could be sent back Well, they had a, but their figures were not very good. Right. If you, if you let Oppenheimer and Einstein tell you the figures, they would tell you it's not just what happens when the stuff blows up, which they were saying was about 60% of the Soviet population was going to die.

But very quickly, the rest of everybody dies because of the radiation. It's fall out around the entire earth. Right. And plants won't grow. Nothing will grow. Right. unless it's underground far enough not to be, you know, the DNA to be killed. That's what LeMay wanted to drop three warheads on every target, just to be sure.

Three warheads on one target. Can you imagine that? These are hydrogen bombs, too. These are not. Oh, hydrogen bombs. Yes. Yes. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Mudwater.

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Yeah. Yeah, no. It would completely destroy the atmosphere and it would kill millions and millions of people. But here's the like, did they anticipate any retaliation? Like, because, you know, they have, they have a system in place. No, they did not. They did not expect it because they did. There were no ICBMs. So the only retaliation that they had would be to send their air, their big airplanes that could drop nuclear weapons on us. Did they have submarines with nukes?

No, not at the time. Okay. They were working on it. Okay. We had, we were the first, I think, with the Polaris missiles. And, uh, and, and so. We actually had those in a particular, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then beyond. So what we're looking at here is a coup d'etat.

This is, by the way, this is a nice slide here. It's like Robert De Niro. Yeah, and this is before he was moved out during the missile crisis that summer in 62. Okay. But what he goes, and they're still arguing over whether or not we should send combat. troops or whatever. And Lemmature is recommending action in Vietnam and Cuba at the same time. And knows full well that we don't have the forces to do that, the ground forces and all

the other things like that. So it was clear that there was only one thing in his mind, which was going to be nuclear weapons. Now, so what he does, and it's very interesting in January 62, They were still lying about how much we, how little forces that the Biet Cong had. And we didn't need to do anything. It was easy to defeat that. But it wasn't true.

It was, it was a lie. And they had a huge amount of forces. They were lying to Kennedy. Yeah, they were. But not Johnson. The vice president knew what was going on. And then all this came out in the spring of 1962. But anyway, in January, Limitcher decides to make one of his most audacious statements to Kennedy.

He sends it through McNamara, who basically doesn't touch it except with his thumb and his index finger. Like, you know, and he says, I don't endorse this, but you better read this. Wow. And so this is a paraphrasing of what it was in a smaller place. Basically. This isn't not verbatim. Correct. But it says this.

Okay. Trust me, it takes a couple of pages. We told you a year ago to send combat troops. to Vietnam, but you didn't listen. We've done everything you've asked us to do in the program, and if it falls apart, we still want to send combat troops. And if you fail to do it then, it would only make our job more difficult when we have to do it anyway. And that's the gist of what he said. Now, what is Lemitzer's motivation for all of this? He believes. He believes. That's it. It's just a fount. It's a ideology deep and within his soul that he believes that we

People don't understand today because it doesn't make any sense. It just seems crazy today. The only way you can understand the Cold War is to have lived through it and understand that back then it was, they thought that the Soviet Union was going to go to war with us. They thought the next thing step after World War II was going to be to take all of Europe. Okay, that didn't happen. That was stupid. That's not what his plans were. But anyway, they believed.

and there was a lot of talk about this. They called it the scare of 1948. They were going to take all of Europe. So they believed that it was a, you know, them or us. The communists were going to take over the world. That's right. And we couldn't live together. It was once I was going to win, once I was going to lose.

Now, did people like Lemitzer get any sort of kickbacks from military industrial complex, from any sort of military contractors or anything like that from sending all these tanks and bombs and planes? It didn't have to at the time because we had a lot of that stuff from World War II. Later on, you know, as technology progresses, then that's different. And we get to Vietnam, for example, and we have to have better, you know, ships and better ground. After the Gulf of Tonkin? Well, yeah, in 60, all the way through Vietnam. We were spending a lot of money on new stuff, and including Agent Orange and stuff like that.

DARPA was spending tons of money developing new technology. That's right. So this is the July 1961 Net Evaluation Subcommittee that does the PsiOPS. The Net Evaluation Subcommittee is a Subcommittee of the National Security Council. This is underneath the White House. So that's why they briefed the president. It's a subcommittee of the National Security Council called the NES, NETAVAW Washington Subcommittee, that does the Psiops.

And so they briefed this, that what they thought we should do is a massive surprise nuclear attack on the USSR and China during the fall of 63. And I'm saying that plan was still in play in 1963, and here's what I wanted to know to try and figure out who was present in the meeting that was in in 1961 at that meeting and who was in power in the fall of 1963. Got it. And it was one guy who hits the spikes both places.

61 in the meeting. And in the fall of 1963, he's the one in power, chairman of the joint, she's the staff, and he's doing all this stuff behind everybody's backs, okay? What was Dulles doing in 63? He was fired at the end of... at the end of 61. And in 1963, there was a lot of people going to his house in and out of the door in 63 most of the year. So people think that he was being briefed on things by people who were on the wrong side of things,

who really wanted to do this thing, this Armageddon. Did he have any sort of job in intelligence at all? Was he down? He was completely unemployed. Well, I don't know. He was unemployed. He had a lot of money. Right, of course. But, you know, no, he was no longer working for the government. Okay. Why do you, what, for what reason would they want to be briefing him on stuff?

Well, because they wanted his views on what to do. He was still part of that clan, you know? Right. And he was, you have to understand, he had, he has other things that, that are terrible that we don't even talk about very much. And when you go back and take a look at what he was doing in Switzerland and his brother in the State Department, they were funding Nazi forces. They were funding Hitler. Dulles and his brother? Yes. How were they doing that?

All the Wall Street firms were sending them money. And we provided about 60 little close. close to 60% of all the pig iron for all their tanks and artillery pieces. And this is no, this is, this information is not, it's just that it's boring to people who don't care about going back and finding all these things. But yeah. Why was Delis and his brother doing that? Well, because they, they wanted to make a lot of money. That's what they were making, how they were making tons of money.

Wow. Okay. You know, there's no other, what else, why is it to do it? You know, because, you know, and they, they know that they're going to lose anyway. I guess that's the way they figure it. And then, you know, the enemy's going to be USSR. So, but there's no question about it. We know that this happened and there's books been written on it and it's all documented.

It's, you know, this is not something that is new if you've studied your history. but most people don't don't pay attention to these kinds of things. They just don't. Right. So the Dulles have a very dark background. Right. Okay? And never forget that.

They were, they were, he, Dulles was around during MK. Ultra, right? Mm-hmm. And Dulles, so why did they choose to bring him back in for the Warren Commission? This episode is brought to you by Ultima Replenisher. Health is all about balance. Like a salad with fries. So why not have balance in your hydration? With six essential electrolytes and no junk,

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Oh, because he was the caretaker to make sure that nothing got in there that was, that they didn't want in there. And who was the one who picked him to be in charge of that? I guess, you know, he picked himself. I don't know. But he was unemployed. Look. He wasn't part of the government then, right? No, he was just on the Warren Commission.

Okay. That's all. He was part of the Warren Commission. And they got, I'll tell you who participated in it, which was, which is terrible, which is Bobby Jr. Because, not Jr., Bobby, because he didn't understand. Bobby was an attorney general at the time. Right. And so when his brother got killed, he was destroyed.

And so he wanted to do something about the. the Warren Commission. He didn't really like it, but he didn't mind, he, he didn't really understand what the Dulles brothers had done all those years. That stuff wasn't let go for, for, God, decades. This was not, what I just told you about what they did was not information that was available back then. But we need to know that because we know who they really are. People don't, their stripes don't change over time. they were that way back then and so they didn't turn into

Cinderella's and princes a few years later Right So what was Bobby's involvement in the Warren Commission? I think you finished that thought Well, he just helped to get a couple of people on the commission That's, you know, to get it over with

He was doing his own separate investigation though. Don't forget that. With who? He was investigating the, his brother, well, I don't know, he went all the way to Cuba for one thing, one time. He showed up there, and I wrote about that in my first book, Where Angels Tread Lightly, and so he talked to a lot of people down there and asked questions, but we don't have a briefing book on, like, exactly who he talked to and everything they said to him.

Obviously, he talked to Castro. Yeah, there's that famous story of the journalist who was talking about. and Castro right when Kennedy got shot. That's later. Castro got the, literally somebody brought Castro the phone while they were in the middle of their meeting and he put down the phone and the first thing he said was they're going to blame me. Yeah, exactly.

Well, that's what they said in Moscow too. And Kennedy sent a special delegation over there to tell them, we don't think you did it right away. They did to stop any, you know, worries over there because they thought it was coming. They thought the war was coming. And so did Castro because they knew that they were part of this plot, this top secret stuff. They knew about it. That it was supposed to be Oswald worked for the KGB and Castro.

That's why they thought it was going to be curtains. Do you think that there's any possibility that Johnson was aware of what was going on with Lemitzer and Taylor and their plan for the coup to kill Kennedy? Well, I don't know about the precise details, but he knew it was coming. And they had to do that much because otherwise he wouldn't obey all the things that Burris was trying to teach him. Burris had a huge amount of— Who's Burris? Howard Burris is a guy who worked in the Pentagon under Burkenthal. General Burkenthal, the highest air force.

force guy in there except for, you know, the chief of staff. And so Berkenthal gave him the orders to be basically to mind Johnson. And that's not to be do what Johnson says. It's the other way around. So he tells Johnson very early what he's going to do. And how many times they're going to meet, what days, and all these details that you would expect it would be the other way around. And Johnson said famously when he got the big list of things that he was going to have to, all the meetings he was going to have to do. Well, I just thought we'd do it in the elevator one morning when I was coming down. But if you say so, all right.

you know so he was told he was going to have to to meet constantly and and so this um burris put together a huge um it was a number of people that that worked for him that were working in the um the the white house uh staff that prepares everything for the for the president And so they and other people in the in the Pentagon were brought in as well to do research every day. All it was going on in the world in numerous countries. And so on a daily basis, he would send these reports to LBJ around the world. and they were accurate. All of them were very accurate.

But the same person who's in, I forget his name right now, who was in charge of putting everything together for the president, he also was involved. And he was a person who prepared exactly what Kennedy was going to be told. And that was completely different. So what Kennedy was actually told were things. that were said to him in order to get him to do things that people wanted him to do. So it wasn't a good situation at all where it was his own people who were briefing him at the

National Security Council on a daily basis. But at the same time, that same apparatus is being used for Burris to put together very accurate details of things that are happening around the world. So when the time comes, he'll be able to understand what to do. And this goes on for most of the administration, and Burris actually leaves town in those last six weeks. He kind of knows what's coming. He's out of there. But Johnson, they don't tell him, we're going to kill the president. But he knows. Somehow, I don't know whether it's a wink, wink and a nod or something like that, we don't have a document where it says, this is what we're going to do. Johnson knows, and here's how we know he knows. So he's on

Air Force One on the way home after the assassination. And he's looking out the window, and he's just staring out the window while they're airborne. And, uh, we're, One of his aides, his top aides, noticed and said, you know, what's the matter, Mr. President? And without even turning around and looking, he just said, are the missiles flying yet? Now, we know that. It's in a couple of two or three books, including mine. I got it from one of those sources, but he knew that he thought that this was it. he thought this would be, you know, a big war.

And it didn't happen. It's not what happened that day. This is the same day. Yeah, on the way back. Wow. And this is the plane ride with him. On Air Force One. On Air Force One.

So he knew something was going to happen. And he thought it was going to be war. So what it tells you is he wasn't totally clear on exactly what was happening. but he knew he was going to be president one day, and this is what he worried about, and which is why he tried to stop it in 64, because he felt, like Jamie Galbrae said, he felt intimidated the way they killed Kennedy.

You know, he was afraid. Right. But he said, no, just get me elected, and then you can have your war. Right. Okay? So, but Johnson knew, something was up okay and and otherwise why why all the preparation because the

candidates thought that in the second term they were going to get rid of Johnson and he knew that that got back to him they were going to drop LVJ how did that get back to him why and why do they want to drop him because he was a drunk he wasn't they used him initially because Texas votes, you know. But he had to try to send him on, you know, trips to go here and there and represent the president and stuff. And he was constantly stepping on everything and drunk out of his minds and refusing to do it. With the time he sent this delegation to Vietnam, he said, I'm not going.

I'm not going. I refuse. And Burris would say, yeah, I would say, yeah. Now get your clothes on. We're going to go. And I can tell you lots of stories about LBJ and Burris in 61 and 62, which we don't need to do that right now because you were asking questions. And I think I had told you what you need to know, which is that Burris was the handler. And because he was, Johnson knew exactly that he was going to be president.

And how does he know that? And the only way that's going to happen is if Kennedy's not president. And now, what essentially was the reason the nukes were never dropped? Is it because Russia was able to build up their nuclear arsenal by the time Kennedy was shot? There's two things. There's first that Johnson doesn't want to do it. He keeps the nukes in place, right? Doesn't want to do that.

that. But as you move downstream, it gets to be more complex. By the time the Marines way to shore at the Nang, that's when it, that's our real true entrance to Vietnam is, is in May. Oh, yeah, Tonkin Golf is in 64. But he gets reelected and then he's got to be, you know, sworn in and all that. So that goes into February. and then you got to start sending people over there and getting boats together and all that. And so, yeah, it's in May, May 65 before we actually start sending these troops in there. And by that time, the Soviet Union has a lot of ICBMs. The whole briefing that took place back in 61.

In 61 is over. Right. Wow. Now, but the funny thing is when the war, when the war, War went bad, which it did. And it wasn't because people at home didn't like it. It was because we couldn't win. And Westmoreland didn't like that. And he lied about a lot of stuff.

And they got caught. And there's excellent information on that that you could look into that CBS reports did on this. But, yeah, he, so I guess I've answered. your question. I guess, yeah. Can you, can we talk about the Tonkin golf for a second? Sure. Now, allegedly, there were Vietnamese ships sending torpedoes towards... Torpedo boats. Torpedo boats towards a U.S. vessel. Now, was that actually real? Wasn't that confirmed that that never happened and there was actually no torpedoes that came that were fired at the U.S. boat. Well, when you say

that, it's like we have a movie there, and we're right there, watching no, the preponderance of the evidence is no. They were fake. Maclamarer actually got

incontrovertible evidence of one of the two attacks would never happen, and we don't think the second one did either. But it doesn't matter. It was being used in order to start, to start the war. And Johnson would go along with it. Now, Johnson did us another favor a little bit later, though.

Okay? So we're talking about he's towards the end of his, he can't say his first term, because the first part doesn't count because it was, it was the vice president who is the president, but his full term as he gets close to the end of the war is going sideways. Westmoreland secretly asks him, and this is. in a book by, I forget who it is now, is Beslos, American President's new book, but he has the documents.

Westmoreland actually asked if we could use tactical nuclear weapons to save the situation of Vietnam. And LBJ said no. So they still wanted to, you know, to do stuff. I don't think that LBJ, excuse me, I don't think that Westmoreland was thinking about Armageddon, in other words, attacking the USSR. But he was – Westmoreland was the chief of what was happening in Vietnam. And it was on his watch that they were losing the war.

And that's why he lied over and over again – lies just as bad as they did to Kennedy in the spring of 62. It happened all over again, although instead of talking about $100,000 – instead of what they – said it was like 35,000. Now we're talking about millions, how many millions we have, and they cut that in half. So it was, it was all, same thing all over again, and it was no use. And they told Johnson, all the wise men had a meeting with him, just not too long before he quit and died soon after. He made it technically to the end of his first term. But anyway, they, Right before then, they told him the news. They said, you know, we can't win this war.

We can't win it. Now, is there, when it comes to the war in Vietnam and what's going on in Laos when Kennedy is still alive, there were a lot of CIA paramilitary operations going on in Vietnam and Laos, right? So is this a competition between the Pentagon? and the CIA? Well, it depends on which what year you want to be, you want to, you want to talk about. Okay. So Laos was, uh, was an operation that was begun instantly for Kennedy because it was already

moving under Eisenhower. Mm-hmm. And it was a big, big operation. But it was all CIA. No. We're talking three aircraft carriers and, and thousands of, of Marines. I thought it was all CIA paramilitary operations first. No, there's some other paramilitary operations, but much, much later. But no, no, no,

the big Laos, the great big Laos thing in 61, it was not a paramilitary operation. Okay, this was ground forces and Navy and even in air forces too. You're dropping the 82nd Airborne was in on it, you know, it was a great big deal. And the way they got it, Kennedy, to go for it was this. So when he comes in as president, it's already the Laos thing is going sideways. And so Eisenhower recommends that he go into Laos and take care of the enemy. And so Kennedy starts looking into this and he doesn't like it. He wants to do neutralization of Laos. But while he's doing neutralization, they're grabbing territory. And so that gets in the press and so on. And so it's making his life difficult because his neutralization is actually giving

more and more ground to the Patate Lao, coming further and further south. That's what's going on there. So we do have some bright star, not bright star, it's, I forget, star something is in the, we have forces in there that are reconnoitering and telling us what's in Laos, but they're not fighting. They're basically telling us what's happening. They're hiding and giving us the intelligence information that the army and the army knows about it because they report their army units, but they're special forces that are in their small units. But anyway, what happens is that they decide to pull a fast one on Kennedy in Laos, just like they did

in Cuba, making up a false story that we're going to win. It's okay. Don't worry about it. And Kennedy warns them. I mean, we're not going in no matter what, no problem. Well, it's the same thing was going on in Laos, and the way they, they handle it was by saying we have a very strong military force of Laosians. They're called, well, they were under, they called it Fumi's forces.

He was a big leader in Laos. And so they said that Fumi's forces would defeat these Lausians. They called it the Patat Laosian. Lowe that were coming down and taking over territory, almost adjacent to, well, certainly by Cambodia and getting closer to Vietnam by the month. And so that's what they said that it would just take a day, maybe two days, and Fumi's forces would completely eradicate the problem, and it'd be over. So no need for a big war or anything like that.

we can just win the war with women. This is you, you should just, if you were in the Army, the Army knew that wasn't going to happen. But in the meetings that were held at the CIA headquarters, which is all the Air Force Army, everybody meets for these, what they do every once. a while they have national security investigations and reports constantly they're they're either they happen either regularly or sometimes you know irregularly and it was clear to the to the army at the human level the human intelligence that this was not going to happen so When they were put together the report for Kennedy, the briefing, the Army representatives tried to bring their information to bear on the, it's called a national intelligence estimate, right, or a special national intelligence estimate. They tried to get their information in the report.

And the guy who was sitting there, Abbott was his name, who was the CIA guy in charge of having the, briefing go, refused to let them speak. He said, no, we're not going to do that because, you know, the Air Force guys don't have the clearances. So we're not, no, you can't tell us that stuff. So what it ends up saying is the crazy thing that they're going to win. And the Army, human people said, ain't going to happen. It just isn't. And they didn't. So that never went to Kennedy. He only heard the part about that we're going to win. And they knew. it was going to lose. They wanted to put him in that situation,

just like they wanted to put him in the situation. In 1962, right, when they could have told, I mean, limits from those guys knew that those nukes were coming, and they didn't tell the president because they didn't want him to know until it was too late until everything was there and they were ready to fire. They wanted to back him up against the wall. And that's what they were doing here in Laos. it was a trick and it worked Kennedy said yes and then when it failed it was all over the news everywhere

and so there's that that's the first I have a picture in there somewhere of Kennedy and it's trying that was the first stain on his reputation it was and he was had a pointer and they were talking about you know these forces are here and there and it was very embarrassing for him So at that point, he gives a conditional okay for the Laos invasion. And so three aircraft carriers, three aircraft carriers are sent to the South China Sea. And tons of Marines, besides that are on those carriers and you got all kinds of aircraft, you have a huge amount of Marines ready on Okinawa. It was a big, and they were going to just go right across the DMZ into Laos.

That way. And it already. Well, a lot of time had passed. And both of these ideas, again, we got Laos and Cuba, are taking place at the same time, which is what the joint cheese wanted. And so Kennedy was angry about what had happened with the Laos thing. And so he said, okay, time out. We're just a few days away from the exile invasion. in Cuba. Let's see what happens there first. And of course, it fails. And at that point, they have the meetings in the White House about Laos, and Kennedy starts asking questions, and nobody can answer them, and they know it's over. And they know it's over. And Kennedy says, no, he doesn't really want to, he doesn't have to. And the chairman of the, not chairman, The Synchpack commander, Admiral Felt calls up Lemnature and says, well, maybe we can use the forces in Vietnam at some point. But Laos is not going to happen.

That was the first Siamov, you know, Armageddon that was going to take place there. And they intended to use nuclear weapons to take care of all these North Vietnamese troops, which were coming down there. It wasn't just Laoshen forces. It was tons of North Vietnamese were coming down a trail. Right, the Hocheon Trail. At the time, yes. What was going on here on your slideshow in Berlin? Well, we'll go back just to where it started, which was in the summer of Vienna.

And it was a meeting between Khrushchev and Kennedy. And Khrushchev had been nice to Kennedy originally until he figured out that he was weakling and then all of a sudden he decided he wanted to Berlin. And so that's what was on the table in Vienna and Khrushchev was terrible. He just threatened him again and again. And Kennedy would shoot back, but basically he just said it's going to be a cold winter. And so the thing started escalating from there. Eventually, we had a wall was set up. Kennedy liked that. He thought that was a victory because he said a wall is better than a war. the Joint Chiefs decided that they had some leverage this time because of all the places on the earth that Kennedy would have gone into defend.

And we didn't have the ground forces to do it. So he was interested in having a nuclear option that was not one of these massive things, that would just shoot a few of them and to let them know that we're serious about this. So he asked for briefings on it. And they actually came up with a plan if necessary of how to defend this, you know. Kennedy was interested. Yes, yes, because it might have happened. And then what are you going to do? And so he wanted a, he didn't want one of these crazy siops.

He wanted something to show determination if necessary. And the Joint Chiefs knew that. So they wanted to, they, okay, we got, maybe we have a chance. here to get this thing done. And so then they did a top secret sciop the whole time and waited and waited for the last minute until this thing you see on the slides here, which is this confrontation. They put their recommendation on the table about a day or two before this when for the first time ever American and Russian tanks faced each other right in front of each other

with the turrets pointing into each other and the engines are running. running. And so what Kennedy did just before this, the day of it, is his own thing. He put something in their punchball, which was a declassification of all the nuclear options that we had, everything. And so that was done by the number three guy in the Pentagon. His name was Gil Patrick. And he was sent to West Virginia to make a speech and it was just basically

some some businessmen that were there it wasn't really relevant to that but he made the speech there and also the Pentagon put it out so that everybody would see it and it's a nuclear laydown of everything we have

And just reading this is this is just a small excerpt from the very middle of the speech that Gilpatrick made. He said the United States has hundreds of ICBMs, including 600 heavy bombers and any more medium bombers capable of reaching the USSR due to the highly developed in-flight refueling techniques at worldwide bases. He said the United States has six Polaris submarines carrying a total of 96 missiles. dozens, and those were marved. They were merged. Dozens of intercontinental ballistic missiles, carrier strike forces, land-based steeder forces that can deliver additional hundreds of megatons. The total number of our tactical and strategic nuclear delivery vehicles is in the tens of thousands with more than one warhead on each vehicle.

More than tens of thousands of missiles with more than one warhead on each of those missiles. And, you know, and so the, Christoph had been bluffing. the whole time he didn't have any ICBMs and he certainly didn't have the rest of these kind of forces and besides this that was put out publicly in front of the world which really embarrassed Khrushchev and his military because they knew he was bluffing but actually it wasn't secret but it wasn't publicized

we told the Russian military oh by the way we got four Polaris submarines up there in the North Sea each one of which has 90s carrying uh well four of them with 96 would have been something like 72 missiles so we we told them we had four polaris seven degrees right up there you know in the north sea getting ready for them and so they knew it was over and and the joint chiefs did too and so they lost another one because Kennedy decided uh I'm gonna I'm gonna put it put it on the table what we have Soviet Union have intelligence to confirm that this was true? Sure they did.

Yeah. Yeah, they had their own submarines and there was no question that they had all this stuff. The main thing about it was that the question was who knew how much and this made it clear to Khrushchev and all of his military that we knew exactly what they had and they had nothing. That's amazing that we were so far ahead of them. That's what people were, that's what they were talking about back in 61.

And we're going to be even farther ahead in the fall of 63. It will be the maximum best moment to do it. Right. But they were willing to do it right here. They were willing to do it in 61. They were willing to do it here at the end of 61. And they were willing to do it in the Cuban Missile Crisis. None of those things worked.

And so when we get to, you know, to the end of the line in the fall of 63, they try it again. There's only one way to... So when they had classified this at the Pentagon, what year was that? That's in 61. That's in 61. Yeah, right. The day before the standoff at Checkpoint Charlie. At what point did the Soviet Union start building up their ICBMs?

What he was boasting about was a non-existent ICBM force that he started to build called the SS6. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp. In 1961 at his inaugural address, President Kennedy said, Every accomplishment starts with a decision to try. I am blessed to have a supportive family and be surrounded by encouraging individuals that push me to try my hardest. This quote really hits home for me, especially during times like this, when everyone's trying to make New Year's resolutions and focusing on new goals. Around New Year's, we all get obsessed with how to change ourselves instead of just expanding on things that we're already doing great.

Therapy helps you find your strengths so you can. ditch those extreme resolutions and focus on minor changes that can really stick. For me, it's helpful to focus on wins or positive experiences that I'm already grateful for. And this isn't just for people who have experienced trauma or PTSD. It's for everyone. This is a daily ritual I like to use to keep my mind healthy and free of negative influences. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online and designed to be convenient and suited to your schedule.

Just fill out a questionnaire to get connected to a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Celebrate the progress you've already made. Visit betterhelp.com slash Danny Jones to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, HELP slash Danny Jones. It's linked below. Now back to the show. And we had overhead reconnaissance and before that U-2s that told us basically they couldn't

hit their targets in the Far East. There were terrible missiles. And so Khrushchev said, okay, scratch that, let's go to a second generation that's going to work better. So they were working on that the whole time, but it takes a long time to do that. And you've got to have silos, you've got to have all kinds of things in the impact areas and the launch areas. You've got to have the telemetry for these new missiles and so on. It's not something you can just snap your fingers and do it in a few weeks.

So they were still working on this stuff. But we knew that after 1963, they were going to start adding eyeing, ICPMs to their whatever else they had. That's what we knew. And that's why back in 61, they told Kennedy, this is the maximum moment of where we can get the win. They'll never be able to strike back at us. They won't know what hit them. Right. So that's it. And then, you know, when we get to the end of the game, the only way to do it is Kennedy's got to be removed because he's not going to do it. He's just not going to do it. He's three times. victorious. And the reason why it works, you know, in the Cuban Missile Crisis is because it worked

here in Berlin. And here's why. So what Kennedy did, he said, he's the one who broke the ice at the last minute after this is happening. He says to Crucev, look, I'll go easy on Berlin. You withdraw your tanks first, then I'll withdraw mine. And so, Crucef has to tell all his own people, we're going to withdraw our tanks. And I promise the Americans will withdraw there's two, 20 minutes later. So that's a lose, right? But he does it. Kennedy does it.

Yeah, he does. He moves the tanks. Is that why he trusted Kennedy during the Bay of Pigs? I'm sorry, to remove the Cuban Missile Crisis. Cuba Missile Crisis. Because guess what happened? We took, Kennedy did, 20 minutes later. move all of ours out of there.

And that was, they were talking to each other, not through their military services to each other. Bobby was talking to a KGB guy in Washington and, and Khrushchev had his guy in his spot down there. So that worked. Two leaders avoiding. Talking to each other. Talking to each other. Avoiding all the generals and all the middlemen. Yeah.

And we're talking about an Armageddon because we're talking to a huge ground forces as well out there. This is, their Soviet Union and all of its allies, all their forces, the Warsaw Pact, against a much smaller Western forces that were there. And there was nothing we could do about it if they were going to go to war there. And so Kennedy pulled a big one. I called it a big turd in the punch bowl, and that stopped everything. And on we went. And so, but here's the thing about what happens.

it doesn't really stop it because what does khrushchev realize oh my god we i i'll be outed because he was he was living on on very um you know ice because he didn't really win very big in the the the four-year war to succeed Stalin and so uh he was always uh vulnerable to being purged and he did get purged in 64 very close to this um so he decided that uh he would he would do this and it worked but then he said i've got to have something quick or i'm going to be toast so he can't make icbms in a few weeks but he can do something else he's can send medium range ballistic missiles to Cuba and change the equation. That's what, and he, he's on to that instantly, okay, in January the next month.

Within six weeks, he's got a plan. Now, he doesn't tell hardly anybody in the Soviet Union for one reason, because there's a lot of, we got our own moles in their facilities. So he only tells, like the, the head of Soviet Union. strategic rocket forces. He tells that guy. And he goes over instantly in February and starts casing out all those honeycombed caves all over Cuba right away. And then there's some ships to start showing up. And the national security agency is able to enter to pick up signals about what's their their list of things that are on the ships and some of the manifest

are just blank and some of them are just false blatantly false so they know that their ships are starting to come and they're lying about what's on them that was in February and so the NSA knew and here's how they knew it right away what was going on and there's another reason I know about this and I'll say it because I had a friend in NSA that I knew. I don't mention his name, but he liked what I, my book, J.F.K. in Vietnam, and we would talk about it a lot. We met in the cafeteria one day, and he said, you know what? We knew that they had all those MRBMs in Cuba.

were coming. We knew that in January 1962, January. Furthermore, the overhead reconnaissance part, they also imaged a facility in Cuba, and it looked very much, very similar to a warhead storage unit that they had been seen in Russia. And it turned out later on, of course, this was the major warhead store facility on the Cuban island. Anyway, we had all these indicators in January and early February of 1962. And the person who knew this right away in about March, and the CIA was Marshall Carter, who became the deputy director of Central Intelligence.

and he was Lemnitzer's protege. So Lemmitzer knew all this as soon as Carter knew it. So no later than March, than March, we knew that they had those missiles coming. And McCone even said one time, and this is not, this is avoided if possible. McCone said, you know what? Some of these things look like they're a surface-to-air missiles, and that's always for, you know, for missiles, for real missiles. And so nobody paid attention to him. But here's the teaching point now.

They should have told Kennedy right away what they had. If they had done that, he could easily have stopped all those missiles and all those parts and all those things coming. How? By just blockading before they got there. When he did the blockade, all the missiles were there. Got it. And there were more coming. But he could have stopped the whole thing.

They wouldn't have had enough to do what they did later on. It wasn't until July that he found out. And then there were some bad, you know, atmospheric stuff. You know, there were clouds and things like that that got in the way. But there was no doubt in the minds of a lot of people who knew at NSA and in the Joint Chiefs that they were going to do. this and they let it happen on purpose because that meant it would be they would get closer and closer to maybe kennedy would have to do it and if just one one shot one missile goes it's it's it's all out nuclear war yeah now Kennedy was able to have another direct phone call

with crucev during the cubile missile crisis and they had a another deal similar to one that happened in Berlin. Exactly. Exactly. And so it got so close again. I mean, everything was going sideways. And they had to stop it and they knew that. But it was the same thing. What Khrushchev thought he could use would be if we would remove our MRBMs out of Italy and Turkey.

And Turkey. Everybody talks about Turkey, but there was twice as men. many in Italy as there were in Turkey. Wow. Yeah, twice as many regiments, missile regiments. So, Kennedy said, yes, I will do it. As long as you do it first. He says, I can't do it now. If I do it now, I will be gone and there's going to be war. He would have been, you know, pushed aside somehow. It would have been a coup right then and there. He knew that. Yeah. He said, I can't do it now, but I promise you. you, I will do it. And so Khrushchev said fine. And he did he, so he told Khrushchev that he thought

there would be a coup if he did it. Well, I don't know whether he said that or not, but that's what he, that's what he was saying. That was his sentiment. Yes. And, and so, and he did, he had to wait quite, he waited several months, but he did. He pulled them all out. And the only reason he did that is because, and the Khrushchev pulled his out first, is because they had a deal once before. Kennedy honored it. And this time, we're looking at another Armageddon that's going to kill us all. So we had to find a way out of it. And so it was the same formula they used in Berlin.

Right. And that was the really last one. That's the three times that Kennedy saved us from an Armageddon. So when it comes to the fourth one, it's the first one. fall of 63. And you know what happens there? We've got all these things that came into play all at once because they were waiting for it. They knew that, I mean, Lansdale was another guy who was, knew that he couldn't, he would never get to be where he wanted to be, which was to work with D.M as long as Kennedy was in the presidency. So a lot of people wanted him dead and were

participating in Mungoosh. Lansdale, that's the Mungoose plus. the what is mongoose okay so what happens is a mongoose is a terrible decision by kennedy they're still mad because of Castro so they decide to go back again and try and do something about it bad idea bad idea now when you compare how much stuff the soviets had put into cuba by that time compared to what they had during you know the bay of pigs it's four or five six six, ten times as much power, military power, and KGB folks there too. So it was no way that it was going to be, we're going to remove Castro, we're going to remove Castro, but we're not going to use any combat troops.

We're not going to war. That was a nutty idea. And he put, and again, just like, you know, bugs at a Lysol convention, you have William Harvey, And you have Lansdale was another guy. Those three guys were put in charge of Mungoos. And these guys, all three hated each other. So this is a, you know, a crazy idea. And what happens is Lansdale is in charge of describing all the activities.

And all the activities that Lansdale does, actually, when you look very close at them, are pre-Northwood stuff. He's setting up Lemmitzer for Northwoods from the get-go during Mungoose. The Kennedy brothers figure it out in about March, and they kneecap Lansdale, so he's out of the picture, and then, you know, they go to work. But by that time, it causes the real snake in the grass to come out and show himself, and it was Lemmitser, and he had no problem walking in and telling Kennedy what he wanted. Okay? And he told him, you know, I know that you didn't want to do this back in January of 61 because we would be beaten up on a little guy. But how about if we have a pretext? What if we have people dying in, say, Miami and Washington, D.C.

And we tell the American people that these were done by Castro. How about that? How would that have worked? How are people going to die in Miami? They're going to shoot them. Who's going to shoot them? Our people dressed up as Cubans. And this is part of Northwoods?

Yes. This is the Northwoods operation. And Northwoods was also, there was a plane, an unmanned plane. Without two, they were going to shoot down on a manned plane. They were going to actually kill some people in their dinghies trying to escape from Cuba. It was about five or six things. It wasn't just one. There were all these things that they were going to do.

And so what he was trying to tell Kennedy is, look, we can do this. We can do this and nobody will know the difference and the public will be in support of it. And you know what? Kennedy told him to take a hike. Who is the mastermind behind Northwoods? Well, Lemonshire, actually.

But you have, but he put together secretly, during the Mungu's party, put together secretly all the units in the Pentagon that had to be there, S1, organization S2, Intel S3 operations, for logistics. He built up all the things that were necessary

for Northwoods to work. Did Dulles have anything to do with any of this? No. Behind the scenes? Nothing. Okay. Got it.

So that's what happened there. And Kennedy just made a terrible mistake as he gave him another chance. You know, he gave him another chance.

And it was no need to do that. Anyway, it was clear that the Russians were going to do something. They had to do something. So that's why they were while we're playing Mungoose stuff, they're doing the missiles thing, right? Right. So this is all going sideways, and it doesn't have to. It's because they're hiding everything from Kennedy all the time, trying to push him around, make him do what they want him to do. And he eventually figures out, and unfortunately it was very late in the game.

in the Cuban Missile crisis, it should have been much earlier, but he still says no. He'd rather die than to cause this type of trauma to our planet. And so was Martin Luther King like that. And so was his brother eventually. Bobby stopped being the protector of his brother because his brother was dead. And it was his job now. And suddenly Bobby felt the weight of the world on his shoulders like it had been on his brother. I wanted to talk before we get into, which time do we have?

Before we get into the Bobby and MLK stuff, I wanted to talk a little bit about the seven days in May movie. Now, there was a movie or there was a novel that was written that JFK wrote and that was eventually turned into a film. Can you explain the story behind that, behind that novel? and then JFK's reaction to it? Well, it was his belief, and it wasn't his idea. It was Frankenheimer and somebody else. But Kennedy, he also had the same idea. And so he was helpful when it came, when they asked for his help.

But it wasn't his original, he's not the one who originated it. he's the one who went along with it when he found out about what they were saying because he always believed that. That's what I think explains the 63 things he was doing. He thought that they were going to try and kill him. So the premise of this novel, Seven Days in May is what it was called, what it was called, was that the military would overthrow the president. Okudita, yeah. Which is exactly what ended up happening. And what did he say, he made some sort of a public statement or he sent some sort of response based on his reaction to reading the novel. that he said that it would be possible, but very unlikely, that that could happen.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact quotation, but yes, there was a, but it was a mediocre thing. And he was very, it was a lot more. Maybe you could find that, Steve. I think it's public. It's online somewhere. Kennedy's reaction to seven days in May. His public reaction. His public reaction.

Yeah, because his private reaction was, this is terrible. You know, he was very afraid they would do it. and that he wasn't going to live I can't bring it up all right we can't yeah we lost control

that's okay no worries yeah so and then eventually what was the story they wanted to shoot it at the where did they want to film they wanted to film the movie

at the White House or something no they wanted to use the Pentagon they wanted to use the Pentagon right and the and the defense department was not going to authorize that so Kennedy ended up letting him film it at the White House yeah he went down to Florida for a while and let them have the house, White House, to do it.

Wow. But it's a very good film. And you know how people like films. And so it will teach you quite a bit. It was done very well. There were one or two things I could, you know, complain about here or there. But, you know, 90%, they had it right on the nose. It was a very good movie.

Okay. Let's talk about Martin Luther King. Okay. Sound good? Yeah. You wrote a whole book. about Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy? Hasn't been published.

Has not been published yet. It's better because of all the new stuff I keep finding out. So what is the premise of this book? The book is about the CIA penetration of Martin Luther King's inner circle. Okay. But it's growing into much more than that. But that was how it started. There's a lot of FBI in that, but it goes well back into the past.

But what I wanted to do with you today isn't that part of it. That's just something that's coming and that I have basically all the evidence that I needed for what I have. And there's more things that are coming that are going to be added to that. But there's a piece of his story that fits in with what we're talking about here and that fits in with the larger story of MLK's life. And I'm still, I'm getting reels now with my interns at James Madison University that have never been used before. They're very hard to find. They're on old type machines and we've got some new ones built at James Madison that we can use to examine the reels.

And it's just amazing. It's everything that Hoover was doing to stop the bus boycott for one thing and to stop King, period. King was a real threat to Hoover. And we have 21 reels. And each reel is a huge. It takes many days. to actually print out all the stuff that we have that Hoover was doing trying to stop.

You're talking about film reels. They're microfish. Film isn't what it is. This is stuff that goes back into the 60s and 50s and so on. They're microfilm. Microfish, they call it. And they're not like the film stuff you see when you take it through.

But it kind of feels like it, because it looks like it's film, but it's an earlier technology. Okay. This episode sponsored by Forkful. Most meal delivery services promise healthy food, but look closer, and you'll often find cheap industrial seed oils hiding in the ingredients. Forkful does things differently. Forkful delivers chef-prepared meals made with premium ingredients you'd expect at a great

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Restaurant quality meals, real ingredients, no seed oils. Discover Forkful today at Forkful Meals.com. but it's very important and not just on this subject but on all kinds of other subjects and people who are doing PhDs that are going back in time trying to look at whether it's LBGT things or or any topic that they're trying to study from a historical perspective you have to have these reels you have to dig them up because they exist but they're very hard to find because they've been housed in a company that does that and then exact money out of places in order to let them use their stuff,

and then one big company swallows up another company, and so it took me a long while to find these MLK Hoover films, and I'm using, and so that's another thing. It's going to be, it's going to change a lot of things, because until you have it in front of you, the exact things that Hoover is asking for and saying, it's you're kind of it's not the same thing so this is a big project that is coming through adding to the book that I've written in many different ways so it's going to take me the rest of

this year and possibly some of next year to finish the MLK book but it's only the first volume the second volume I really I've never announced it publicly what the title is. Should I tell you? Break that news with the title of the second. Let's break that news. Well, it's so obvious. MLK and Vietnam.

Ooh. Okay. That's the second. That's it. Two volumes on MLK coming. Okay. But the first one is going to be first. And if somebody,

people obviously are trying not to pay attention to me too much. And so I'm not afraid of somebody, you know, doing it first. And if they do a good job, good. Then it means I don't have to do it. Go ahead and do it for me. So I don't have to do all that work. So what did, why did Hoover want to stop MLK so bad? Okay. From the time he was in high school, the three, and he was in debating, the three things he didn't like, let's see if I know all three of them. One of them is he doesn't want civil rights. Doesn't like black people. Hoover. Hoover does not like black people.

And what else didn't he like? Oh, yes. No voting rights for women. I forget the third one. Anyway, this guy was his racism, he wasn't born racist, but he had a grandmother who used to come over and visit all the time. And she was hell on wheels on black people. And she poisoned that young boy's mind.

that's how it started and it stayed with him his whole life he persecuted homosexuals and he was a homosexuals he was actually the woman in the partnership oh wow he was the bottom huh yeah because he liked powerful men and that's really Clyde tolson his his partner was yeah that's a crazy story in itself yeah do you do you go through all that in your book well I'm going to go through a lot of it There are other things written about this. But, you know, I'll do my, I'll do my own thing. Right. So what was going on during that part of the, so can you explain what was going on when JFK was campaigning and what was going on with him and MLK?

And I forget, can you remind me who was running against JFK? It was, Nixon. Yeah, Nixon. So can you give context to that and kind of explain what was happening in that era right there, like the relationship between MLK and JFK and that whole presidential race? I like the use, the term footsteps erased for a lot of things, like geology and things like that, that things have been erased because people don't want, they don't want to change their views on things. But it works perfectly for Martin Luther King because people have forgotten a lot of things.

one episode in his life. Not the one that everybody, like the bus boycott was a big deal. And there were other things that were a big deal. But this is a very interesting one. Once you know about it, you'll never forget it. So this was the campaign, the Kennedy campaign was in its final stages. And what happened was there was talk about meeting with King. And, um, and, um, and, um, what happened was, there was talk about meeting with King. And so it was difficult, though, because the campaign itself, there were three of them, and Sergeant Shriver, who was part of the Kennedy family and a guy by an Harris Wofford and one other person.

Where they worked in Washington during the campaign was around the corner. so that nobody would see them. You have a storefront, you know, the campaign. But you don't see any blacks in there because they're very worried about the southern white vote. And that had been what had always worked for Democrats. That's where they get their breadbasket, right? So the Kennedy Civil Rights team was very small, but very crafty people. Yeah, they were smart.

and but they were around the they were around the other blocks so nobody could see who they were what they were doing um but so at the last moment uh they decide uh to do something about it because that's what they're doing for they're supposed to help the black vote so they they get to work now here's what happens there are seven steps let me see one two three four five six basically seven or six, six steps that take place in a short period of time, between 17 October and 28 October. Okay, this is very close to the election. And each one of these events produces a second event. And the second event won't happen unless the one before it does.

And so the first thing is you have a lot of sit-ins going on all over the south by students. high school students in several states. And they're going into soda fountain places like that and together as black people. And they're not supposed to be there. And so they're getting smacked. They're getting stuff poured all over their heads. And so the students have been doing this in a lot of southern states. And they've been after King asking him to come and support them, to come to one of these events.

and King's sort of happy not to have to go there because he's got all these other things. And so here's what happens. So they agree on they're going to have a meeting, Kennedy and King. And then King says at the last minute, look, I have to tell you something. And oh, what's that? Well, I have to give Nixon a chance, too, to be fair. And Kennedy says, oh, no, we're not doing that. We're out of here.

Kennedy did not want to do it. on that basis. So now all of a sudden, because... So just quick context. At that point in time, the African-American vote in the U.S. was Republican. I'll get to that, yeah. Okay. But this is where things start, which is that you have a bunch of kids that are trying to do something about that.

Okay. kids not king he's not doing he's not in there yet students students are doing it all by themselves that's right and so king king comes to understand that like these people are far more um you know brave than i am and it's and it worries him he prays about it and and and so at this point when when jfk cancels their proposed meeting and the and the kids find out about it they come to him again and say, come on, you can, you know, what do you got to lose now? And so he does. Go to who?

The kids go to who? To king. To king. Yeah. Okay. And tell him, okay, come on, it's time. And so he does. He goes to his first sit-in.

And, you know, and the courses are pouring milkshakes on people's heads and doing all that stuff and pushing them and doing things like that. And so they arrest everybody, but they release everybody except King. So King is now where. his first, and he's never been arrested before. This is the first arrest of Martin Luther King at the Soda Fountains, and they let all go except for him. Now, he had, and this is in an adjacent county called DeKalb County, which is a terrible

county, very racist county. Where, what state? This is happening in Georgia. So he agrees to do it. He's arrested. Everybody else has let go, but in the adjacent county. in Georgia to the county they were in, I guess it was in Atlanta area. He has a parking, a car citation of some sort, which he told his financial guy to pay.

And as far as he knew, it was paid. Well, apparently it wasn't. It was just a minor traffic violence, minor traffic violence. That's all it was. they put him on the chain gang at the Reedsville Federal Penitentiary. And a lot of people, these are blacks that are being put on the chain gangs. And a lot of them are not coming out alive. All right.

And so this is a big, oh, my God, what are we going to do? So now we have, that's the third event, right? So it all has to start with JFK canceling his, you know, the meeting. And so these are the dominoes that are falling. And so what happens now is that the civil rights team decides they're going to do something. So Wofford has the idea, why don't we in this very moment have JFK call Coreta King with a sympathy call? And so the problem is that everybody is in his bedroom at an airport where he's getting to go someplace. and so they have to wait until everybody walks out of the bedroom

because they know that if they dare say anything about blacks, it's going to be canceled. Not going to let it happen. Okay. So they wait. And so in the room is a Sergeant Shriver. And he, he, and Kennedy lays down on the bed.

And so he says, oh, and he says very, very quietly, what Wofford said. he suggests that you call Coretta King. And Kennedy doesn't even think about it. He just gets up and gets the phone and makes the call. Doesn't coordinate with any of his staff at all. Okay? And she's flummox.

She doesn't know what to say. And she says, yeah, wow, anything you can do, it'd be great, you know. And it's like that. And that's all there was to it. And then RFK finds out what's happening. And he does something he shouldn't do. he intervenes in the case and calls the judge who made the decision. He's the attorney general.

You're not really supposed to do that kind of thing. But he does. He calls up and reads the... Wait, this is before he was elected, though, right? That's right. Yes. Yeah. He's not the attorney general.

He's not the president yet. No, he's not. Right. He's not the president and it's not the attorney general. Right. But he is Bobby's... Bobby, excuse me, he is JFK. brother. Right. And he is an attorney. Okay. He's not the attorney general, but he is an attorney.

Okay. And an attorney is not supposed to intervene in cases unless he has a, but anyway, this is a personal thing, and he shouldn't be doing it, but he does. And he calls Judge Mache and tells him everything that we know, and Judge Mates realizes this is going to get out now in the newspapers and everything. So he agrees to let him out of prison. So now he's, he's out of prison. And, oh, does the whippings happen. So, Bobby Kennedy tells us, brother, okay, he says, you've done it now. You've lost the election. They thought because it made it out into the public that him and Bobby got MLK out of prison, they were going to lose the white, the southern white boat.

Yeah, that's right. He said, what did he say? here it is. No, that's something else. Anyway, look, let's just do this. So they put together a plan to

send out pamphlets to all African Americans across America and they actually ended up printing two million of them. In churches, they're going to distribute them in churches the weekend before

the actual election itself. And they do that. And Sergeant Shriver is the one who actually decides on a daring gamble at the very end. What they do is they establish a committee called a, quote, dummy committee, unquote, of preachers that have nothing to do with this, but say that they're doing it so that nobody in the Kennedy campaign has touched it. So this is a stealth operation that the Shriver's. Covert preachers. Yeah, that's what they're doing.

And so, and it works. And so they print all these things that they call them the blue bomb because it was printed on blue paper. They put in the, you know, the, Shriver makes the final decision to do it on his own. He'll take the responsibility for it and finance the pamphlet himself. But, you know, he was so lambasted by Bobby. It almost ruined the relationship between Shriver and the rest of the Kennedy family. And he did the same thing to Wofford, tongue lashings and all that stuff. But he himself had made that call to the judge, to Judge Mitchell.

So this small group of these three guys had no intention of stopping, even though they were told not to do another damn thing. And they did. And so here comes the blue bomb. And it, what happens here? I think it's... Whoa, what did I say? 250,000 black votes? Yeah, I'm going up here.

Here it is. So what happens is that seven states go to JFK instead of Nixon that would have gone to Nixon. And you can look at the math. It's just incredible. Do we know what states those are? Yeah, I'm listening to them right here. Oh, okay. Most of them anyway.

So you take Illinois, there might have been some piddling around in there. Illinois was the mob stuff, right? Yeah, but it wasn't everybody in the mob. I mean, the mob can't reach, you know, 250,000 people. So they upped it, I'm sure. And maybe that state itself might not have gone. But anyway, overall, the Republicans had always got 60% of the, of the, of the, black vote. 60%? Okay. All the way back for for years and years and years to Lincoln.

That's right. And then all of a sudden in this election, 1960, now 75% of the Democrats. And so you only get, the, the republics are now only getting 25% of the vote instead of 60, right? Wow. What a swing that is. It's huge. And it's still the closest election in history up to that point. So it's the civil rights section that is responsible for this and we've been talking about that and so um anyway we have you know several states we we we mention here um carolinas it's in the carolinas it's michigan there's seven states and all and that is what the blue bomb with seven states that's right now um I want to just say this about about this particular story. Okay.

You see, people don't remember this. And it's amazing that they don't. Because it was in the newspapers, but it was just like one day. So you know how a one day thing can happen? And then it's like it didn't happen because just people go on to football games or whatever else they do. Yeah. You know, so, but this is what I have to say. This is just me talking here. I, I am pondering what I think is a real forgotten dichotomy. And it's all because of the black vote. There were bad things that did not happen because of the role of the black vote in the 1960 election. For example, descendant the wars in both hemispheres of our planet that would have led to a terrible Armageddon. We know how many times that happened as well. The other thing that I ponder at the same time is the good things that did happen because of the role of race played in the election.

And that's JFK's new frontier. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security benefits, minimum wage, low income housing, peace corps and peace instead of war. He took care of the little guys, the poor guys. And by the time, three years later, everybody was making money. people and poor people. Isn't that weird? It's in three years because he had the economics group of a lifetime. It was John Kenneth Galbraith. So without MLK, there's no way that JFK was going to be president. Okay. And so in retrospect, we have three people, MLK and JFK and RFK, not to mention the civil rights unit, that we're responsible for the remarkable change.

But those three guys that I just mentioned are all assassinated within eight years. Within eight years. So fast forward now. Suppose that you and I live through our lives and it keeps on going because we don't destroy the planet. That's hard to believe the way we're going right now. But let's just say that we don't destroy this planet. And it doesn't destroy us for what we're doing on it. What will the people say 150 years from now?

Okay, so we're going to 2170 or something. What will they think about the election of 1960? Will it be there at all? Yes, it will be. But none of the details will be there. Right. Only one thing. They'll remember we are alive today because MLK and JFK saved the world from the destruction

of an Armageddon. That's it. That's simple. That's all, but it's a lot. And we don't even know we're going to get that far. I mean, something else could happen. And it doesn't. But it's a miracle that all of those chain of events happened the way they did. Yeah. Because it was so close. So many times it was like on the brink. So you kind of have to think that maybe the universe up there had its shit together. Yeah, like I said to you, like I said to you last night, it feels like it's that movie The Adjustment Bureau. Whereas just these little decisions you have to make, one way or the other. So I realize this is not the MLK story itself, big story, but it is a piece that really is a big story all by itself, just by itself. And these guys were both had moral compasses. Yeah. And Bobby did too.

After this was over, when it was his turn, he did too. And they knew that to the black people changed immediately. And they said, Bobby's white, but he's right. Can you talk a little bit about what happened to Bobby afterwards? And why Bobby? Well, he had a lot of arguments with a number of black intellectuals. And that didn't last forever. The thing that turned it around was there was.

There was an assassination of one of the candidate. I'm sorry I can't remember the name, but a well-known black leader was assassinated. I mean, it might have even been, which is his name that had to go to Mecca before he changed his mind about white people being bad. But anyway, so after this assassination, Bobby Kennedy went by himself down into the ghettos.

One white guy standing up on the back of something in front of hundreds and hundreds of black people. And he made a speech to them that they never forgot that spoke to what he wanted to do for African Americans. And that turned everything around. And by the time he was assassinated, very much like the JFK assassination,

which was in full view of everything, right at the point, you know, where it would do the most, not just damage, but scare enough people. Right. Well, everybody knew that was tracking things,

especially the people that didn't like Bobby Kennedy, knew that he was going to win California. By that time, he'd collected enough credits or whatever you call him, that he was going to get the nomination and he was probably going to win. And so that night

was the special night where he was over the top and everybody was celebrating and they shot him in the kitchen. That very moment. They didn't wait till later. Or like James Galbraith said, you know, he could have just been a syringe used. This was in your face. same way they did his brother.

Right. That's what happened. And so they killed him and they killed Martin Luther King within six weeks of each other. Was it the same forces behind the JFK assassination, that was behind Bobby's assassination? Well, we know more about the military stuff. I went down to Memphis, Tennessee for the 60th anniversary sometime last year and met a guy who, was curator of the King records that were there. The biggest

King records are close by in another town. But yes, he showed us evidence of two army sniper groups that were on right there. Right where, you know, in

on the other side of the pool that was empty at that time there were a bunch of bushes up there. And that's where one of the teams were. And the picture you see mostly when you look at it is Jackson pointing up and it looks like he's pointing across

to the place that this what's his name was with the rifle is standing on a bathtub trying to shoot well they're not pointing there because it's the wrong angle and you see what they're pointing is over the other to the left and so yeah there were sniper

units in Memphis at that time two wow so there's more work to do there. I need to go talk to that guy again and, you know, I'm a busy guy besides, you know, doing a little bit of yoga, but also doing a lot of research and stuff because that's what I'm doing. Yeah. And so I'm a moving target. You never know what it's going to be next. And you got a book

about yoga too, right? Well, it's partially about yoga. Half a half of them. What kind of yoga? Do you do Kundalini? No. No. No, I don't... The Kundalini thing is all these these breaths, these crazy breaths, and Iyngar doesn't like to criticize anybody else, but that's not his cup. The Iyengar is the guy. We would talk about this another time, but it all came west because they ran out of what they could do with it. in India, believe it or not, it was for a show for the upper classes. The yogis were just a show like a circus or something.

But Kriesomacharya was a very forceful force in yoga. That was his name, and he had three disciples. One was his son, Vinny. And then there was also a guy called Patabi Joyce who was his disciple and then his best disciple left him. Don't even know his name. But his sister, Krishna Vacharya's sister, was married to a sickly guy. His name was Ayyngar.

And everybody thought he wasn't going to live past 20, 25 years because he had TB and some other things. Anyway, he ended up not dying at all. and ended up being the best yogi probably in history, in modern history. He learned English very well and astrophysics and all kinds of things. And he was treated as a statesman all over the world, no matter where he went, except for India, because he was a householder.

He was a Brahmin. And he didn't take the Brahman caste. He didn't like caste. And so he married and had children and had one child. And so they forsaked him for that. And they, but many years later, when they, in India, they discovered how popular he is around the entire word. All of a sudden they decided he was a good guy and he was their guy. But I studied a lot of yoga because accidentally I came across it.

and the first class I took, I had a buzz all the way to the parking lot. So I knew that that moment there that I was going to do yoga for the rest of my life. So I began to study how many forms there were from the get-go. And ended up being a teacher now for 30 years, a yoga instructor. But I've paired down. I had huge amounts of, teaching that I did all through the Shenandoah Valley. But now I only have time for two or three people that I know that have been with me for a long

while. And I just don't have the time anymore. But I do it myself. And I treat a couple of old people until they are dying. And yoga is used for that. Yes. Yes. I had a very, very close woman that I did practice yoga with for 32 years.

and she died recently about eight or nine months ago. And I kept her alive for two or three years. With yoga. Yeah. How old was she? She was 81. She was that you're able to move around and be flexible like that at that age? That's pretty incredible.

Yeah. In the last days, I had to lie her down. And we were able to do upper body poses. and a lot of other things. She had very little memory left, but she remembered me because we went back so far. And so she would come in the house, say something. I would say something, and she couldn't remember it three minutes later. But I told her jokes.

I kept her laughing, and I kept her flexible and, you know, and eating. Wow. And eventually when she died, her daughter, who has a big job, she's basically running Estee Lauder, the largest women's cosmetics thing in the world. We had to go up to New York twice a week. Anyway, I'm doing somebody now who's 87. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible.

There's a lot of weird connections with, like, asotericism and yoga, especially Kundalini Yoga. people like getting into weird psychic states and yeah well you can do that without doing kundalini it's it's it's called prachahara we all do that at the end of a yoga session is to lie down uh as like in a dead person would and you stop thinking it's not thinking that's what prachara is and when you not think for a long time all kinds of things come to you that you should have been listening for, but you're all talking so much. You're just not letting the universe say anything to you at all. Like downloads or something? Well, look, everything in your body and your phone and your, I mean, this cup is even inert things like this. It's not alive. It doesn't have DNA.

And anyway, it's all just vibration. Everything at the, at the, you know, smallest level. Right. And it's vibration. everything in this room is vibrating. You and I are changing our genomes right now because we're breathing to each other. Our genomes are changing because we're in the room together. So you would be amazed how much, and we know this is science, this is not silliness that we know is happening inside of us and outside of us. And the infinity is outside of you, but it's also infinite inside. You can keep going smaller and smaller and smaller that way.

Right, right. And so we are all connected. And so when people talk about, you know, being reborn, it's not about like that. It's a law of astrophysics, actually, that all matter, any matter. And that information, any information cannot be destroyed. Not even into a black hole. It's still there. Or come out if there's a white hole in the other one who knows.

knows. Right. Information can't be destroyed. It's there. It's around you. So what happens if you run into this information and suddenly, for some reason, you like it or it likes you? You're speaking in tongues and saying things you couldn't say before.

It doesn't matter. Everything is connected. Everything is connected. And once you understand that, it's, you don't have, there's a lot of silly theories you can let go of and start to get. real and understand that there's a lot of stuff around you and in you that you're not even paying attention to you have a brain that's much bigger than you're using right for example right so let's I don't want to go too far with this but it's fascinating though I like I like I like

learning about that kind of stuff it's it's well I spend my life doing it yeah I do but a lot of it has to wait I what I'm doing is basically for myself and my family a couple of friends when I talk to them about some of these things. But right now I have a mission and I'm hoping. What's your mission? My mission is to scoot into the Michael. I, well, I have, I interpret my instructions are to finish these books that I'm writing on the 20th century before it all disappears. And when that's over, if I live, long enough. I'm probably going to be 83 or 84. By the time that happens, okay, when it's done, I have written two novels. I've written a screenplay and a lot of other things. They go way back

into geology and things like that. And so... You wrote the screenplay for Oliver's first JFK movie? I wrote some of that. They came out of my book, JFK and Vietnam. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a screenplay for... It's called War of the Ice Ages. And that's just the first volume. War of the Ice Ages. Yes, it's everything that did exist in the Ice Ages, okay? And there were, which kind of humans, what kind of animals, everything, and what they did. And there were wars between cromagnons and other species of humans that could actually have intercourse and create a hybrid humans, and we did that.

So there's a lot... You think there was wars between different species on Earth during the Pleistocene? Yeah, well, we know of there were when the ice caps got big, the ocean levels went down, and the people who lived on the Canary Islands went twice over to what is Spain. And they are the ones that are responsible for all the cave paintings that you've seen. And they're, they're, what time, what, what time period are we talking on right now? Well, probably around 500,000 years. 500,000 years.

Yeah, from, for beginning, though, you know, so you have very primitive tools way back. But when we get to be about 150,000 years, it starts the, the, there's an amazing advance in both the, the, the, the, the, the humans themselves are six feet, three inches tall with, with, with, with, male brains about 2,200. You and I are biggest men now is about 16, 1650. Women are about 1,200. So the cromagnons, they're true cromagnons. Are brain sizes? Are huge brains and thin bones, which is thin bones,

cacings of the brains and other bones, which is indicative of advanced humans. And so, yeah, we know a lot about these things. But the problem is a lot of the American paleontologists like to go to the Bahamas for their vacations. And guess what? The British and the French people, they went down to the Canaries. And I went down to the Canaries once, and I saw El Muzzo Canario. And it blew my mind.

It was a museum. Steve, can you take over control with some photos here? Sorry, sorry to interrupt. Keep going. Well, and so there were like six floors. And in the staircase were the glass cases with the skeletons. So there were about 60 full skeletons of these chrome magnets. And then the rooms around a floor were all the items that they made, all the needles, out of bone and things like that and clothing and things like that and you could go i forget which

it started from the the oldest to the youngest and the youngest ones there were there were two invasions of these people uh during uh glacial maxima 40 000 about 40 000 bc and then 12000 bc uh is when they got over there and that's why we still but you know what it's very strange because it's southeast Spain. And the, the, what's, what's survived of, of the bodies is that they know that they were, talking to the mic so they can hear it. They were blonde-haired, blue-eyed people that still exist in that very small part of Spain. You would think there would be from Norway or something, right? But no, these people came for, they were called the guanche is the name. The guant. The The oldest human genome recovered from the southern tip of Spain adds an important piece of the puzzle to the genetic history of Europe. And a new study reports the genome date from a 23,000-year-old individual who lived in what was probably the warmest place in Europe at the peak of the last ice age. Well, it was actually not so much Europe, but it looked like Europe because there was a land bridge. Right, right.

to the islands down there in the Canary Islands. Right now when you go down there, they're just islands. The gaunches were the indigenous inhabitants of the Canary Islands and the Atlantic Ocean, some 100 kilometers, 60 miles west of the North African coast. Hmm. Anyway, I've been collecting, I went there and brought back with me tons of studies, but they were not done by American scientists. They were done by European scientists because the American scientists have had done a little about it,

compared to the Europeans. Closer to home, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. So this was much before. So you're obviously familiar with the younger dry-as hypothesis, impact hypothesis, that it was cosmic impacts that melted the ice sheets and caused the great flood. All kinds. That's written about multiple biblical texts and around the world and different cultures.

I visited them in Southeast Asia, all these tribes down there, all have the same. Moryes, not Moreses, they have the same stories that they tell back in their, from their generations. And there's different languages and different people. And they all still tell the same thing. Yeah. Around the world. It's wild.

It really is. And so I've had multiple people on here that talk a lot about that kind of stuff. Well, I've got a buck. I've written, but it's one of the first things I was doing in my 20s. And so it's not even, well, it's typed. I did type it a little bit, but it's not, it's not on something like this. Have you seen the northwestern scablands of the United States? No.

If you could pull it up, pull up. Do you say northeastern or western? Western in the northwest United States. All I know about that is that they talk about people came to us at the very end, just before the Ice Age ended. second one, the middle one. So this is what a guy, a friend of mine, Randall Carlson's been on the podcast many times

and he has, goes, he takes tours of people out here to the scablands. And his hypothesis is that this is all evidence for mega floods. He thinks that there was a cosmic impact that hit the

Canadian ice sheet on the southern border of Canada. and melted it instantaneously, which was hundreds of millions of tons of water flowing south over the United States, which created these channeled scablands, which we see now that are all dry.

And these were basically giant rivers that were flowing at hundreds of miles per hour. Like, look, go down, you can see that. And he has evidence to show that this is all just, massive water erosion and it was all through north america look at that yeah i i think pretty incredible stuff and you have things that happen after that too which is why everything's so flat on the top yeah the north you go the the the ice sheets that came over those just it was like

getting a haircut right yeah and he i mean his hypothesis is that this all happened between 11,900, and 12,500 years ago, something like that during like a 1,000 year period, which is called the Younger Drives. But mainstream geologists don't take it seriously. They call it pseudo-science. We have a problem with mainstream geologists because they're trying to say that human beings did not come here until, you know, 10,000 BC around that time. And yet we have site efforts. after sight, after South America's and the South America. And it's humans and have been there 40,000, 50,000 and 60,000 years ago. Right.

And so, you know, these people remind me of researchers in a certain area that don't want to change their minds about things because they don't want to be wrong about something. Right. When we have new information. Right. And so there's a whole bunch of information about, you know, that the first people, who came, we talk about the Vikings, the Chinese started, the Shanghai Jing, there was a huge axis changed and it caused a lot of storms and things, but an emperor during the recovery period sent out four expeditions to re-to-redraw the earth, such as it was, north-southeast and west.

Well, when you go east, there's nothing but water. So it's the eastern, The Shanhai Jing, the eastern classics of mountains and rivers, Shanhai Jing. That's the English interpretation of them. And so they came and started on what is the, basically the mountain range all from Canada all the way down to the South Pole. It's a huge uplift, huge uplift along that whole. And there are three-legged pots. guess where they come from China

and little things that they made out of clean stuff of Fu Manchu's and they in the their traditions tell them that some guy

who was very smart brought them civilization and told them how to do a lot of things this Fu Manchu guy anyway there's a lot of this material in China. Some of it is still buried and are leaving it for, who knows, why they're leaving some of them buried.

But I've been to the digs up there because I was in that area of the world for quite some time. And I went up there and saw a lot of this stuff. So, yeah, it's... I had this guy, a friend of mine, Ben Van Kirkwick, who's also been here. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. But he did some analysis of some of the stone vases that are found in. in Egypt and he took them to he found some people who purchased stone vases. I don't know where he purchased them from, but he has them in his possession.

And they were actually able to measure some of them that were in one of the Petrie, the Petrie Museum, Flinders Petrie. And they did measurements of every single angle of these dynastic Egyptian vases that. that were supposedly made with copper chisels in the Egyptian times. And they found out through aerospace engineers at Rolls-Royce who measured these things with laser machines, they found out that these things were perfectly symmetrical within like one one-millionth of an inch,

which is like less than the thickness of a human hair. So like today, to make something, Something at a granite vase to make a vase that perfect out of granite would take a computer program. You would need to model it on a computer to create it. So how the fuck were these created? Ancient civilizations. During how like, yeah, exactly. So his theory is that this must have been created before the flood, before everything was wiped out, that the human civilization was far more advanced than it was, than it is today.

Oh, certainly in certain ways. There was a reset. It was not just a linear progression. We were set back to the Stone Age. Yeah. And we will again, if we don't stop what we're doing to it now. Yeah. Tell us all, yeah, tell the audience where they can find your books, what they're called.

So you just go to Amazon. That's the best place to get them. The ones I'm going to show you today, I guess I would start with JFK in Vietnam. This is the 2017 edition. This is what you would definitely want to get. and where after all this stuff that happened to it and then all my other things that I did since then where I worked with McNamara and other people you'll find interesting. You worked with McNamara on that book?

Oh yeah. He was a – we worked together for quite a while. He didn't want to at first. He didn't want to talk to me. But eventually he did. And that's all in there. Wow. And the Galbrai story, they got my rights back and lots of those things.

Countdown the Darkness is where you want to go when you find out how they tried to, you know, push Kennedy to go into Cuba. And all the lies they told them what happened, you know, bit by bit. All the people who endorse these things on the back are fun to read as well. Some of them on the inside, more recently, into the storm. this will go as far as the Cuban Missile Crisis in Northwoods, but it stops there because I realized that there were things that I didn't understand that were weird. So it's the first book that I didn't write a conclusion to. I called it an intermission. And so I thought it was going to be Armageddon X, but at the other end of the intermission ended up being this thing here, which is about spy wars.

And all of a sudden we're in a new place with low-hanging fruit, low-hanging KGB fruit, all over the place. Not just one piece of fruit, but I mean hundreds and hundreds were still putting together how many of these moles they had. And I'm working now on a sequel to this already called uncovering Moscow's moles because we have a lot more, including probably – Moles that we had in Moscow. Yeah, James McCord as well. He's well, he's in there too. But anyway, there's a lot more coming. But anyway, thank you for inviting me down again.

I enjoyed this trip. I enjoyed the last one and I hope to have more in the future. Yeah, we'll do the next one on MLK. We'll do a full deep dive on that. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking for it myself, yeah. All right, I'll link all the books below.

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