Danny Jones Podcast - #24 - The Florida Prison Real Estate Mogul | Matthew Cox (part 2)

Episode Date: November 11, 2019

This is Part 2 of the Matthew Cox podcast series. You can watch Part 1 here: https://youtu.be/DcpIsapqbAc  Matthew Cox is a true crime writer who was sentenced to 26 years in Federal prison for identity theft and mortgage fraud. One of his most popular stories "Once a Gunrunner" was even turned into the feature film "War Dogs" starring Jonah Hill.  Mr Cox was also featured on his own episode of "American Greed" on CNBC.  Matthews website: https://insidetruecrime.com  Devil Exposed: https://devilexposedexhibits.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're back round two of the Matthew Cox story saga series, podcast series. We had such an overwhelming performance here. Scoot this a little bit closer. So where did we leave off on the first podcast? I think we wrapped up. Yeah, you got arrested at the very end of your career in mortgage fraud and identity theft. Right. You got busted from that stupid home invasion.

You went to trial, right? No, I didn't go to trial. So what happened right after you got arrested? What was the process? Super guilty. Super guilty. Guilty. you're super guilty, you don't even think about going to trial.

Well, I mean, if you're innocent and you go to trial, you can be innocent and go to trial. You still got probably a 50% chance of being found guilty. I mean, so if you're guilty, you just say, hey, look, you just beg for forgiveness and say, hopefully, how come you have that, Mike, and not one of these? Because Shane typically sits here, and this big arm blocks the view of him. Oh, okay. So that's why I started using this one.

Um, yeah, basically I got arrested, you know, and so I got taken to the Secret Service, you know, in Nashville, and then I was flown to Atlanta, and all of my cases were consolidated in Atlanta. So I had cases in South Carolina, in Florida, in Tennessee, and in Atlanta, and they were all consolidated in Atlanta. And so, you know, they gave me a, I didn't have any money. They took all the money I had. How much money did you have at the time? At the time, you know, the thing is, but the banks, because someone were like credit lines

as soon as the banks were notified, they immediately like clawed back any money that was in their accounts and that sort of thing. So how much money I have at the time? I don't know. We were trying to get, I couldn't even tell you, man. I mean, we'd been robbed. We had a bunch of money stolen from us. It was, I don't know, maybe it was half a million dollars.

I couldn't even tell you. I do know we were set up to get another half a million or so, possibly a million in refinances. Like I was in the middle of setting all of that up to try and get that. See, we found out that Dateline was coming out. And when Dateline came out, like I'd already been in Fortune magazine, had come out. Oh, you had already done the Dateline interview? No, I hadn't. Oh.

So, they came, Rebecca Hout got caught before me. So her lawyer had gotten involved, and she was from, like, the Johnny Cochran law firm or something. I mean, it really was, like, from the Johnny Cochran law firm. And actually, I saw her on TV the other day. I forget her name. So she had gotten her an interview, you know, she was on Fortune, in Fortune Magazine. It was the whole, you know, I'm a victim. I fell in love with this guy.

He convinced me to do all these things. He manipulated me and I'm a victim and I didn't know what I was doing and it's all him and he's a horrible person. So they do an interview with Fortune Magazine. Fortune Magazine puts up the, writes a story based on her perspective. It's actually, and it's all on the internet. And so that and then,

Dateline. She did, she did dateline. And it was a whole poor, poor me, he's a bad guy. I'm a nice person. You know, he's a Don Juan. He manipulated me. So, you know, which is, listen, which honestly, had she never come across my path, had she never met me, granted, that was probably true. So by actually meeting me, it definitely spun her world. So that was her whole take. So that had, so Dateline was about to come out. So I was about to leave the United States. And that's when I got caught. So I get caught. I get brought.

I end up in Atlanta. I'm in Atlanta. They took all my money. I don't have any legitimate money so I can't get a lawyer. I end up getting a public defender. So the public defender comes in and she's basically like, look, they said, they said you stole $26 million. I'm like, $26 million. that's insane.

Never seen $26 million? They're like, yeah, $26 million. The FBI is talking about charging you with $40 million, and they have money, they have like money laundering and all these. The charges were just outrageous, and there were just tons of them. I think at one point if you stacked them all, it was like 250 years or something. And then she said, don't worry about that. The most they could do is if they stacked them, really, some of those are doubled up.

And if you plead guilty, most you could get is 54 years. But don't worry, that's not going to happen either. I'm like, Jesus, God. I mean, it was just horrible. Wow. You know, I'm 37 years old, and I was just thinking I'm going to die in prison, and this is ridiculous. I was filling out paperwork.

Filling out paperwork, bringing it to the bank. They're giving me checks. I mean, you're talking about giving me something you give a, you know, a serial killer. So she ends up saying, she's like, look, they want to talk to you. FBI wants to talk to you, secret service wants to talk to you. They've already indicted you in these jurisdictions. your co-defendants have already cooperated against you, a few of them, not all of them. Some of them just avoided talking to the FBI at all.

But most of them had already cooperated. Becky was already in jail. A girl named Allison Arnold. Remember the girl that went in the bank as Rosita Perez? Yeah. Okay. She ended up getting, she ended up, oh, what does she do? She ended up turning herself in, going in and saying, look, I'll plead guilty.

I'm going to turn myself in. and I'll plead guilty. Really? And she pled guilty and turned herself in and they gave her like 30 months for turning herself in. FBI had actually told her

she won't do any time. And then the U.S. attorney came in and said, this guy, Robert Mazzakowski came in and he said, no, she's got to go to jail. So that's the problem is the FBI will sometimes make a...

Sometimes the FBI will come in and they'll make promises to you. Yeah. But they're not actually allowed to make promises. So you're thinking the FBI said that they were going to do this, but they can't, they can't promise that. And so you're banking on the FBI doing what they said they can do, but they're not really in a position to make any promises. And then the U.S. attorney steps in and says, oh, I never said that.

The agent said that. Well, the agent doesn't have authority to say that. Well, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's not my fault. No, no, you're going to get 10 years. What? He said I'd get two years, you know.

And they always try and they always kind of do a little whole thing. Look, look, I'm going to do this and this. And honestly, between you and me, you're probably going to end up with a couple years. That's it. Really? Yeah. Bam, next thing you know, you get 10 years. So, and they're always sorry.

Oh, yeah. Allison told me that the FBI agent actually, Candice, the woman that, remember the woman that I called? She told me she actually, after she was sentenced. The girl you're playing chicken with, basically. The girl who was saying, she was like, come turn yourself in in Tampa. And you're like, what about Atlanta? Right. you had the track of the burner phone right so that agent actually went to alison after she was sentenced

she had to turn herself in and went and told her look i'm so sorry she said she goes she was just like i'm so sorry and she's like you said i didn't have to go to jail right you said i didn't have to go to jail and she's like they they just give me 30 months and she's like i'm so sorry i didn't realize i really thought that that was what was going to happen and you know okay so alison went to you know went to jail. Allison really genuinely, you know, never got really much money or anything like that. She ended up in 30 money. It's ridiculous. Wow. So, you know, and she cooperated. You know, I talked to Allison every other day. Really? Yeah. I talk to her all the time. Wow. I mean, she's, she's awesome. She's an amazing person. And, you know, and it's so funny, too, because like when I watched the American

greed and she's like, Matt Cox is the grievous person I've ever met. I called her up and I go, you just said Matt Cox. And she's like, I'm so sorry. You don't understand. the pressure I was under. It was the producers. They fed me that line. It was funny. Yeah, she's super cool. I talked to her all time.

So, anyway, let's see. So what happens is... So you met with your lawyers. She said they're going to get you down to like 53 years. Yeah. Actually, when she sat there and I said, okay, well, what kind of a deal can I get? And she said, well, they want you to sign what's called an open plea. An open plea means that you plead guilty.

And whatever the PSI comes, your pre-sentence report comes out to, that's what it is. And she goes, I go, well, what's that? She says, well, they don't do that until after you've cooperated, after you've talked, after you've, you've completely done everything they've asked, and then they'll do that. She says, but we can figure it out ourselves. She says, because I know what you're charged with. I said, okay. So we go over it. It ends up being between 12 to 14 years. I said, okay, cool. 12 to 14 years. She's 12 to 14 years plus you're going to get cooperation. Cooperation means that they're going to reduce your sentence. It's a, it's a Substantial assistance. If you provide substantial assistance with the government, they'll reduce your sentence.

And basically, you're going to snitch on somebody. Right. And get somebody, you know, get somebody jammed up and get them charged. Okay. Well, everybody I already know, and I'm telling her, everybody I know has already cooperated. She's like, I know, but you need to go in and talk to them anyway. You know, plus they want you to be interviewed by Dateline. And I went, okay, they said, because Dateline had already done a one hour special on me. And they said, and they said, They said, but Dateline wants to do another one hour special, but they want to interview you this time. She was in the government wants you to do it, and they said they will consider it substantial assistance. Okay, well, then I've got to do it, because I don't have anybody I can tell on. Could you get it in writing or anything? No, they're not going to put anything in writing.

Really? I mean, that almost never happens. I actually know of one case. The whole time I've been locked up, I know of one case of a guy that got a guarantee, we will reduce your sentence. Okay, so So I go in, I talk to the FBI for three days. Was it two days or three days? I don't know, it was about two, three days.

And so I explained this is what happened. This is what I did here. I did this. I did this. Who helped you? So-and-so helped me. They're like, okay, well, we talked to so-and-so. Remember they came in first.

They gave me a stack of what's called 302s, which is other people that cooperate against you. Right. It's interviews with witnesses. They're called 302s. They give me a stack of them. And I'm like literally every single person I know they've, well, not everybody, but almost everybody they've talked to already.

I'm like, Jesus Christ, all these participants or co-conspirators have already cooperated. So I say, you know, they're like, oh, so-and-so said this. I'm like, yeah, that's true. That's what happened. But I don't really have any new information. They'd had three years to investigate. Right. So I don't have anything.

Okay. And people have been indicted, but they hadn't arrested anybody. You know what I'm saying? They were waiting to catch me. Well, keep in mind, by the time this is all taking place, the economy's melting down. This is 2007. Oh, shit. So by mid to late 2007, the economy is starting to melt down.

It's the beginning of the mortgage crisis. Right. So. Thanks to you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My little few million dollars melt. And, you know, that's the kind of stuff they were saying, though.

It's because of people like you. I'm like, are you fucking serious? I'm talking about billions of dollars. Right. They're just so ignorant to it. Yeah. But, you know, they need a face. Exactly.

So, so anyway, I end up going in and I talked to the Secret Service. And my, I always loved that when I talked to secret service, I told you that I used to make banks, right? I would make like fake online banks. So if I had to verify somebody, let's say I have to verify, let's say you need something like reserves. Okay. So I have a bunch of mortgages and I'm refinancing them.

But you have so many mortgages, the bank says, look, we need to know that if you lose your job, you can make all these payments. We need to know you have six months worth of reserves. Well, I've got five payments on five different mortgages already. So they go, so we basically need to see that you have $60,000 in your bank. I didn't have a bank with $60,000. So what I did was I would make online banks and then I would create a website for them. We'd clone another website, change it around a little bit.

Make a basic go-dadi type, very simple website. And so they, and then I'd make fake bank statements. and I would send them to the banks. And then they could check, they could always go to check out the bank. So I made one called the Bank of Ebor. One was a bank of, it was a Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville.

Because that bank had actually been sold to country. It sold to like First Union or somebody. Anyway. So these were banks that were already like known banks? No, these aren't real banks. There's no Bank of Ebor. Oh my God. So, but if you've got your some underwriter.

And all they're doing is they're getting some bank statements. And if they're questioning it, They can always look up the website or they can call and there's a voicemail talking about how it's a small local bank. We're currently, you know, experiencing high collar volume, leave your name and number. Someone will call you back. Whatever. So, you know, which almost never happens because they have the bank statements. They have original bank statements.

So, and then they're verifying everything. They're making calls and they're probably not going. They're really just verifying the reserves and they have the bank statements. That's all they need. So the point is, is that when I get caught. by the Secret Service, one of the first things that they say to me is, look, we want to talk to you about what happened. And we've already talked to Rebecca Howl. And so here's the issue, Mr. Cox, is, are you hiding any money?

Have you given us all the money? I said, absolutely. You got all the money out of the SunTrust. You got all the money out of First Tennessee Bank. You got all that I started naming it. You got all those. I gave you all the banks. They're like, Mr. Cox, we know you're hiding money.

No, no, no, I'm not hiding any money. They go, yeah, yeah, you are. They said, you're about to get. charged with obstruction of justice. And I'm like, my lawyer's going, hey, do we need to talk? I'm like, no, I gave them all them. What are you talking about? They pull out a couple of bank statements and slam it on. They go, you've got $180,000 in Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville under the name of Walter Holcomb. And I'm like, oh my God, like, are you serious? And they're like, yeah. And what are you doing? And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, I said, listen.

Oh my God. Keep in mind, you got the U.S. attorney there and two Secret Service agents. And I go, did you call the bank? They go, yeah, we called the bank. I went, did you talk to somebody? And they go, no, I left, I've left several messages. I go, did you go to the website? They go, yeah, I said, what did you think of it? And he goes, and it's a website, it's a bank website.

What do you mean? I go, but it's well done. It's professional. He goes, I mean, it's a bank website. And I went, yeah, but it's convincing. And he goes, oh, son of a bitch. He goes, it's fake, isn't it? And I went, I said, bro, it's all an illusion.

Oh, what the fuck? Are you serious? I go, who did you? What did you do? He goes, we subpoenaed the bank. I go, what bank? There's no bank? And he said, they looked it up on the bank registry and the number was actually good because

there was a Southern Exchange Bank. But it wasn't Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville. It was a real Southern Exchange Bank that had been purchased by another bank. So the registration number or whatever was still good. So they had the address and they subpoenaed them a few days earlier. I was like, this is insane. I said, I haven't paid that thing in months. There's no way he turned around.

He dialed the number. And sure enough, like the number goes, do, do do, do. The phone number you called. And he's like, and I'm like, holy shit. So, I mean, I always thought that was funny. And I remember looking at the guy was just looking at me smiling. I go, I'm embarrassed you caught me. And he just starts laughing.

He was actually cool. The Secret Service was actually agents were cool. You know, I went through everything. This is what I did here. This is what I did here. They kept saying, look, there's got to be more money out there. It's like at the American and greed, they say there's like $4 million or something missing or some bullshit.

And they kept saying that kind of stuff, but there's no money. Okay. So then when I met with the FBI, they were just, it was Candice and she hated my guts. Oh, you met with her in person? Oh, yeah, yeah. And the worst thing is, you know. You call you, sweetie? Oh, listen. Worst thing about Candace was, she's got to be 5-9, 5-8, 5-9, and she wears heels,

so she's like six foot tall. and I've got slippers on from the jail and I'm like 5'6, 5'7 with a good pair of shoes and I didn't have them. And she towered over me and she was belligerent and she was just, she really loved the fact. I remember at one point she was taking my handcuffs off

and I rubbed my wrist and she said, and she goes, your wrist hurt? And I go, yeah, and she goes, get used to it. I was just like. Damn. Oh, she really despise me. So anyway, the point is that I end up doing the interview with Dateline. Because I think they're going to reduce my sentence for it.

Okay. Just keep in mind, everything I've told them, they basically already know. There's no reduction in that for me. Right. So I do the Dateline thing, and the night before my sentencing, oh, I got my PSI back, by the way, and it says, like, I'm doing, like, 26 years. You've got 26 years in four months. I never say the four months.

What's PSI? Precendence report. Okay. So it's recommending that the judge give me 26 years. My lawyer's like, don't worry about that. We're going to argue some of these enhancements. Not a big deal. So I go, so she goes, plus you're going to get a reduction.

Okay. Well, the night before the U.S. attorney decides she's not going to give me a reduction. She says, yeah. And she says, but he did dateline. He goes, yeah, well, you said you'd consider it substantial assistance. She said, I did say that. And I did consider it. And it's not.

Wow. Yeah. I was like, but she said she would. She said she would consider it. Substantial assent. And she did consider it. And I was like, oh my God. So the Dateline interview did absolutely nothing for me at that time.

So I get in front of the judge and my lawyer argues the enhancements. And the judge is like, yeah, I disagree. Okay, well, this enhancement, I disagree. Keep in mind, they do stuff like some of the enhancements. They were just ridiculous. I mean, you get an enhancement for. committing another crime while you're on probation so you get an enhancement you get a I got an enhancement for more than like 50 victims or something but they counted they counted uh countrywide bank

like five times and I was like no they go yeah it's countrywide bank you took money from them countrywide financial countrywide home loans country so it's like what do you talk so everyone there everyone is a separate entity okay well and my lawyer's like yeah they can do that and then they turn around and they say, okay, well, we're hitting you for stealing more than a million dollars from one institution. And I was like, what institution is that? And they go countrywide. You said, it's five different. No, no, no, no. For this purpose, it's one. You see what I'm saying? Everything stacked against you. There's just nothing you can do. You're at their mercy. So anyway, she loses all these enhancements, arguments for the enhancements. Judge says you get in 26 years and six months.

Okay. I'm sorry, 26 years, four months. So I always say 26 years. So I get 26 years. I go back to the unit I mean, bro, bad day. Crying, listen, crying like a small child. I mean, you can't believe

the way I was, I mean, just couldn't, I mean, just the tears, even closing in my eyes, I mean, they just wouldn't stop coming. We talk about just fundamentally just fractured. I mean, I was just, it was like,

it was something you just can't believe that you just got 26 years. I couldn't believe I'd done anything to get 206 years. 26 years, I filled out paperwork and given it to the bank. And what happened? How is this possible? Yeah. So, you know, I end up getting shipped to prison. I go to prison. I go to the medium because I have so much time. Medium security. Medium security prison, which is, it looks like a real prison. It's what you think a prison is. There's two-tier systems. So where it's a, you know, there's a second railing. There's a, there's a center console area.

where the guard sits and you can see all the rooms down here, they're locked down at night, there's a second tier up top where there's rooms. I mean, it's a real prison there's. Right. So I go there, I mean, it's just the guys there are all massively huge. And I go into the prison and as soon as I get there, they assign me a room, I meet my bunky, which is this Mexican guy.

Now, is a medium-tier prison, is that for violent crimes? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's a medium, typically to go to a medium, you either have to have an extensive amount of time, a long record, or you have to have violence.

Okay. You know, for instance, you know, like if you have a, you could be something like you've been arrested four or five times, gone to jail once, but you happen to have a gun in your case. And they'll say that's violent. You had a gun, that's violent. You're going to the medium. So you have high points, high security points.

My security points were like two, or three, which is, which is low. That's a camp. I should have gone to a camp. What did you get any kind of violent points for? No, I didn't. Oh, you didn't. I had too much time. Oh, because it was so, okay. You can't. So if you have over 20 years to do, you're going to a medium. Right. I had 23 years. As soon as you, I got sentenced for 26 years, they immediately knock off three for your good time. So I still have 23 years. I've been locked up for a year already. So I got about 22, 23 years left. Okay. So you got to go, I got to go to a medium. So I go to the medium. Right. Everybody there is almost everybody there has like bullet holes in them.

They've all, I met, I met, I've met 30 or 40 guys that had actually gone to trial like for murder or already done state time for murder or for something. I mean, these are, these are violent guys. These are guys doing home invasions. These are guys doing carjackings. These are big time drug dealers. And you don't even have to be a big time drug dealer. You can have just a sell, be selling, you know, $10 crack rocks. And you happen to have a gun.

You're going to a medium or a pen. Right. So I end up going to the medium. I remember the first time I get there, I meet my celly. We shake hands. I go down to... That was the first guy you met. First guy I met.

And it's locked down all the time. So I actually, I went down to get like some water or something. Immediately they start screaming. Lockdown, lock down, lockdown. And I don't know what I'm like, well, what's going on? My celly comes up to me and he says, hey, Sally, you got to go to the room now. And I was like, come on, come on. He knows I don't know anything.

I'm like, well, what's going on? He goes, we've got to go to the room. And I go, okay. So I go up to, I said, somebody got stabbed in the yard. And I went, someone got stabbed. Someone died? And he goes, no, no, they just stabbed them a little bit. Just stabbed up.

Stabbed up a little bit. I was like, a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, that's just the kind of place it was, you know. And it wasn't, there wasn't like a lot of gang activity. If there was, it didn't have anything to do with me. And the reason that I got lucky was within a few, within a month or two, I'm basically hanging out in the library because people are stabbing each other in the yard. So I end up, they have what they call continuing education course.

Yeah, not continuing education, sorry. They're ACE courses, adult continuing education courses. Okay. So there was a guy who taught the real estate class. He ended up after a month or so, didn't want to teach it. And he comes to me and he goes, listen, man, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm doing legal work all the time. It's just too much.

Can you start teaching it? I said, sure. So I start teaching the real estate course. Wow. That's ironic. Yeah, I know. Taught the real estate course. the whole time I was at Coleman.

As soon as I left the medium, within a month I'm teaching it at the low. But anyway, I stayed at the medium. So I'm hanging out the medium. And I'm waiting and I'm thinking to myself that I'm really kind of just screwed. There's nothing I can do. So after I end up getting a job in education

and I'm teaching a real estate and that's all I do. What was that like? How many people were in your class? How many students? What in the real estate thing? Yeah. Oh, like 40 guys. 40 guys.

Listen, and you know, and you've got some guys that show up and they show up and they're like, listen, man, I just want a certificate. Because my case manager's bugging me and telling me I got to take classes. I don't want to be here. And I'm like, okay, so. Go to sleep. Yeah. Well, no, I was like, look, just give me two coffees. You know, they sell bags, give me two bags of coffee and two bags of creamer.

Oh, okay. And I'll fill out all the paperwork and I'll make sure you get the certificate. And they're like, man, cool, great. They take off and they bring it back. And they will, they will bring it back. Like at the low, guys will try and. I'm fucking fuck you over. But at the medium, that guy the next week shows up with show, here's your stuff, man.

Because things can go wrong in the medium. They have a lot more respect for one another in the medium. So it was funny, you would think at the higher levels, you'd have less respect. But the higher levels, guys are more respectful for one another because the consequences are so bad. At the low, they're jerks to each other because you're at a low and you want to stay there. So you're not going to stab someone at a low, although it happens. Yeah. Because you want to stay there.

People are a lot more ruthless in the mediums. So, right, and pens and that sort of thing. So anyway, I end up leaving, so three years. Sorry, how often were the classes? Like, how many a week? Oh, it's like one or two a week. At one point, I was teaching two classes. And what kind of stuff were you teaching them?

I'm teaching just basic real estate. Like how to buy houses. Yeah, okay. I mean, and I get loans. Yeah, how to get a loan, how to get a hard money loan. Okay. What they should be paying, what they charge, what the, you know, how to write up a, what the hard money lender is going to be looking for.

How to determine is this house, you know, worth buying? You know, you go through the whole thing, pulling permits, whether or not, you know, you should pull a permit or not. I mean, technically you change a toilet, you're supposed to pull a permit. But nobody does that. So you kind of just go through the motions with them. Right. You know, and I explained to it how it always sounds good.

Yeah. I bought this house for $40,000. I put $20,000 in it. Right. I sold it for $80, you know, and people are like, you know, oh, man, you made $20,000. $1,000, it's like, no, no, I didn't. You don't, you know, it sounds good.

It's always, you know, you, things go wrong. This got stolen. That got stolen. It's a pain in the ass. I had to clean up glass in the front yard. You know, it's always, I always think you're going to make $30,000. You make $25. And if you think you're going to make $30,000 and you end up making $25,000, you feel like you got screwed out of $5,000.

I mean, it's just, it's like being a professional construction worker. And it's just, it's a tough business. Yeah. So, but I go through it all, and they all think they're going to get out. flip houses and they get psyched up and get pumped up. And it was so funny too because... She'd been running your own YouTube show out of there and live streaming it. You would have had millions of followers.

It was great too because it was like, it was so amazing because they would walk up to me after class and be like, hey man, that was good class. And shake my hand. Really? Yeah, it was like, and I was like, you had to have five or six guys every class shaking my hand. I'd be like, and I mean, I wanted to look around. I'm not being punked?

Is this guy shaking my hand? This guy's got 30 years. He's a crack dealer. and he's shaking my hand and you guys are telling me that, you know, man, I'm going to do this when I get out. You probably really helped him. You probably gave him, you know what I mean?

Gave him some sort of hope to look forward to. Being a drug dealer is probably is a real asset in that because there are hustlers. It is. It's hustling. Right. And they don't mind going up and talking to people or knocking on doors and arguing with contractors and stuff. Exactly.

So it's one of the few things. And I tell them all that and they would get excited. Yeah. I'd go through all the process. So it was a good class. Everybody loved that class. So I had a waiting list. So, but I did that.

And then eventually I ended up getting moved to the low. So now I'm getting, I'm moved. How long did that take? Three years. Three years. Three years. Oh, man. It was just the worst.

So the medium was just, I'm saying, was this, although what was great about it was I did have my own, I had a sell with a, a good, a sellie. He was a good cellie. He was an ex-gang member. He'd already done 13 years. The Mexican guy? Mexican guy. 13 years for manslaughter

or attempted murder in Texas and then as soon as he got out he thought he was going home they picked him up for re-entry and the feds hit him for something like seven or eight years I mean just

he could not get a break but he was a good guy so let me think so anyway I go to the low I get to the low it's getting to the point where I realize you know, you know, what gets you through it is, you know, hope.

Right. You know, everybody's like, I can't, I remember. You always tell, everybody's always like, I have a buddy named Trion. And Tron. And I was like, man, I can't, I couldn't do it. And I was like, it's funny because when I first got arrested, I had met a guy. And I met the guy and this guy who'd been locked up in the state and was now doing some, about to go and do some federal time for a gun. And he'd been locked up for like 10 years in the state and he'd done some time.

And he was going in the feds. So I remember he said, or was it the opposite? Anyway, so I remember, I said, man, I just, I can't, it had only been a month or two. I've been in county jail. I was like, I can't do this. I can't do this. He goes, he goes, well, this is a great thing you don't have to. And I go, what do you mean?

And he goes, you don't have to do it. He goes, they're going to make you do it. So it's effortless on your part. You just have to keep yourself entertained. Yeah. And I was just like, that's horrible. That's a horrible thing to say. But you come

A very great way Look at it But it's the only You know You start to get to the realization Where you're going to do the time There's nothing There's just nothing you can do

So really it's just about entertaining yourself So So what happens is You know the other thing he told me Which I always thought was interesting He told me and you're not going to believe this But you're going to meet some of the best people You've ever met in federal prison

I was like That's never going to happen Because I mean I'm sitting there like These guys are scumbags You know that's not going to happen He is you will meet some of the best people you've ever met in federal prison. You'll build some great relationships and lifelong friends in federal prison. He says, and there will be moments.

He said, when you will be hanging out with a bunch of guys laughing your ass off, he said, and you will look up and you will think, these are great guys. There's no place I'd rather be. This is a great moment. And I thought that's never going to happen. Bro, like three, four years later, I was playing. playing risk with a bunch of guys. We've been playing for two days and there's like four of us and we're screaming and yelling

at each other and laughing our asses off and double-crossing each other and we're drinking sodas and we got like the soda guys bringing us cold sodas and we're eating popcorn and we're on the yard and it's we're laughing. I mean, just to the point where your stomach hurts so bad. You're just, you're in tears and you're cracking up. And I remember looking up and thinking, this is a amazing. This is a great time. These are great guys.

And I remember thinking, fuck, it's exactly what that guy did. And I had several moments like that. Wow. I couldn't laugh. You wake up the next morning, your stomach hurts. You're laughing. You know, you've been laughing that much. So I end up going to, I go to a low.

I'm teaching the real estate class. I end up wanting to write a memoir, right, about what, because I'd been contacted by. So you're still teaching the class in the low? Right. Okay. Well, actually what happened was just prior to that, I'd been contacted by American Greed. They wrote me a letter saying they wanted to interview me, and I called my lawyer. And I said, hey, this is when I was still in the medium.

I forgot this. I called my lawyer, and I said, hey, I got a letter. She was, I got the letter to. U.S. attorney got the letter too. Gail McKenzie, she's already called me. She wants you to do the interview. I said, okay, well, wait a second. The last time I did an interview, she said, no, no, she said she's Matt.

She sent me an email. I said, was it a guarantee? She goes, well, you know, they won't do that. But she said she will, she will consider it substantial assistance and put it with the other one. And she believes that it's enough to give you, you know, to give you a reduction. Okay. And I said, okay, great. Can't hurt, right?

Right. What choice do I have, you know? Right. So I do the interview. Right. I do the interview. They won't let the cameras in because it's a prison and federal prison doesn't really let cameras in. Most of these times you see these guys on, they're usually state.

or if it is federal, they're still in the marshal's custody. Because I was interviewed by Dateline, and I am on camera. However, I was in the Marshall's custody. So once you're in BOP custody, they're not letting the cameras in. So anyway, I end up going to the warden's office and talking on the phone for like two days or something to, you know, for several hours to American greed. And then they barely used any of it. So they run the, they end up running the, the, the, they end up running the whole episode. The whole episode.

I saw it once I got out. Everybody had seen it. I had guys coming up to me. They'd seen it. I kept missing it. I never did get to see it until I got out. Is there anywhere online where people listening can find that? No.

I mean, I sent you the link, remember? Can you make that link clickable from your website? The problem, the reason I can't is because when they gave it to me, they said, like they said, first they wanted me to pay $350. And I, $350. And I said, no, no, no. I said, I was, and I explained, you just wanted to watch it, right? I just want to watch it. Right.

So they gave it to, they gave me a thing and they said, but it's not available. It's for you to watch. You can't share it. You can't share it. It's not to be licensed. It's not to be made publicly available. And to be honest, I don't want to get sued. You know, you've seen it.

It used to be on Hulu. When I first got out, I watched it on Hulu. So, so anyway, so I end up doing the American Green. And they air it. And my lawyer contacts U.S. Attorney and says, look, it aired, Dateline, and this. And she says, okay, and she goes, well, we need you to reduce it in his sentence.

And she says, well, you know, the problem is, I'm just not sure. Let me think about it. So she drags her feet, drags her feet. And finally she comes back and she says, listen, it's just not enough. I mean, there's no arrest. I don't know what to do. She's, we don't know what to do. I mean, I feel for Mr. Cox, but that's just the way it is.

So about the same time this is happening, a guy named Jim Montram contacts me, and he owned the National Loan Origination School. And all mortgage brokers have to take like 12 hours or nine hours of continuing education, and like three hours of that is ethics and fraud. And he came to me and he said, look, I want you to write an ethics and fraud course with me so I can teach it for continuing education. I want to do a whole course.

And I said, okay, well, I mean, that's great. I call my attorney. She calls the U.S. attorney. U.S. attorney says, I want to talk to this guy. He flies in. They all get together. They meet at the U.S. attorney's office. They all have a conversation.

She says, look, definitely I'm going to do something. He definitely has to do this. This is huge. I can definitely make an argument that he deserves a sentence reduced if he does this. So I write 9,500 word course. I write the whole course. I do everything. He starts teaching it.

We go to apply to them to ask them, okay, can you file a sentence or and she says, yeah, it's just not enough. So at that point, by that point, I got, I had been moved to the low. What's the point of getting you to do all this stuff? If she, it seems like she wants you to do this. Well, why does she want you to do it? She's continually being interviewed. You know, she's like a media hound, you know, she likes them.

Oh, because she's being, she's being interviewed. She's definitely being interviewed. And it makes her look like a big shot. And she's the one who's always like, Mr. Cocker. stole millions and millions and and she was always like really jacking it up like it was huge like it was and it was like okay you're making things

worse than they are and it's untrue so a lot of the stuff was untrue that she's pumping up and she knows it so anyway the point is is that now I'm just doomed I'm just fucked you're doing I'm doing the time

and so I'm kicked back and I'm doing the time and I'm thinking to myself And everybody always, I remember at Treon, my buddy says, man, you got 26 years. Man, how are you going to do that? You were going to have to do what? 23. I said, yeah, I was going to do it.

Your out date was 2030. I went, well, I never thought I was going to go to 2030. I was thought at 10 years, they'll move me to a camp. And I'll just leave. There's no fences. I'd have 10 years to go. You moved me to a camp with 10 years. I'm not fucking staying.

What is a camp? A camp is, you have a, you have a, you have, pens, well you have ADX, which is in Colorado where they put people under the ground and it's for terrorists and stuff. Then you have the most... That's where El Chapo is. That, yes. So, and like the shoe bomber and all these terrorists and stuff, that's where a lot of them end up. So you've got ADX, then you have pens, like Coleman has two penitentiaries. Then you have mediums. The bulk of the system, I think, is basically mediums. Because that's basically what you think of is like a real prison. Yeah. And then you have Lowe's.

and then you have camps. Camps have no fences. Typically, there's a few that have fences, but even those fences, you can jump them. Basically, you'll have, like, 200 people there, 150 guys, you'll have, like, two guards. And they sit in a room, because you're basically on out custody.

Is that where you can do work release programs? Right, you could, right, that sort of thing. Okay. So there's just, you know, the camps, and the camps are just outrageous. I mean, guys are, like, jumping the fence, going and getting McDonald's coming back.

Guys are jumping the fence, going and robbing 7-Elevens and coming back. I mean, there was in Atlanta, these guys are like, they're all drunk all the time. They're,

you know, it's insane. They all have cell phones. They're all taking pills and it's outrageous. But they were saying, look, you know,

I always assumed that 10 years I could have gone to a camp because I came in with camp points. So I was thinking of myself, I'll go to a camp and I'll leave. So basically, by the time I kind of started putting that together,

you know, I've been locked up. I had like 10 years to go. In my mind, I was like you got 10 years. You really had like 20-something years to go. But I was just thought, man,

I'll just go to a camp and leave. Because, I mean, that's just, you're trying to say anything to get yourself through it. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's that whole hope. It's that little light at the end of the tunnel. Right. Anyway, I go to low. I'm there, and I decide I'm going to write a memoir.

So I end up writing a memoir. And while I wrote that memoir, I read a bunch of books on a bunch, I read two books, on how to write memoirs. I read a book on, I read like, like, nonfiction writing for dummies or something, which is actually a great book. So I read these books and what's funny is that you know You really have to kind of learn about yourself You know does that make sense? Like you I got locked up

And initially when I got locked up it was everybody else's fault And you start reading about yourself and about memoirs and about how to What helped shape you who you were How did you get here? You know you have to do some internal You know thinking about yourself and you start to realize you know I realized kind of like you know I put me here Nobody else did

I made all those decisions I'm just a douchebag. Right. I fucked up. I've made some selfish decision. I'm extremely narcissistic. I'm extremely self-centered. Yeah.

I tend to dominate conversations. It's difficult for me to take interest in other people. I mean, I have some major fucking problems. You know, I'm extremely entertaining. Well, I mean, that's huge to be able to recognize that. I mean, that's a huge, that's a huge, I mean. But I'm saying, that's what that's funny is I'm in prison reading this. And I'm like.

And you're realizing all of it. Yeah, I'm going. that's me where I would have never said that before had someone actually accused me of being a narcissist or arrogant or anything I'd be like that's bullshit you don't know me you know no you know what you do know me because you start to see yourself and as you really are and so it you know it's it's it's humbling you know to realize that yeah and then start to see it in other people you know and see yourself in other people so you know anyway I end up writing a memoir while I'm writing that memoir A guy named Ephraim Devoroli comes on the compound. Devoroli is, Devoroli was in Rolling Stone magazine. Devoroli had, he and another guy named Pac-Ox had sold military weapons and ammunition to the U.S. government. And he ended up selling a bunch of Chinese ammunition, which was embargoed, and he got in trouble. Rolling Stone did a big spread on him by a guy named Guy Lawson.

So I read the article and somebody told me, hey, you know that article the other day in Rolling Stone about the gun kid? And I was like, yeah, they go, that's him right there. I was like, fuck. So later on I went up to him and talked to him and said, hey, man, my name's Matt Cox. You know, you ought to think about, I read that article on you. You ought to think about writing a memoir. And he was like, oh, I couldn't write a memoir.

I'm like ADHD and I'm bipolar. He said, I couldn't pay attention to him. I couldn't do that. And he was real dismissive. I said, well, if you need any help, I'd be willing to write an outline for you or work with you on an outline. You could probably send it to a ghostwriter on the street and they could ghost write it for you. You still have plenty of money, obviously. And he's like, yeah, I'll think about it.

So anyway, a few months go by. And eventually, after several months, I basically was finishing up mine. I ended up getting a literary agent. And so I convinced, so Deverely comes to me and he says, hey, I'm, you know, I definitely, I want to do it, that sort of thing. So we end up doing this, I end up writing this book for him. And so then he ends up, I'm not going to get all into it. It's too convoluted. It's a whole other story.

It's a whole other story. He ends up leaving with the memoir. Gives me a big bear hug, tells me I know him more than anybody in the world. That you completed for him. Well, I wrote the whole thing. Right. How long did it take you to write it? About three months.

Okay. Which is really, really quick. But God, he had a ton of it. He had all of his evidence. and his sister was doing all research for me. So if I was like, hey, listen, he told me about this. Or I'm sorry, I'd send her an email and say, he told me about one time this happened or this.

Do you remember when this plane blew up and can you look up some articles? Bam, she'd send me all these articles. Who was that again? His sister was doing research for me. And he had like tenor. He just put you in contact with all these people that he worked with and his family. And he had like ten or, he had like ten or ten different boxes of evidence. Oh, wow.

Under his bed and the lockers and everything. So if I said, hey. In there with him? Yeah. Wow. Well, he's fighting his case. Okay. So, you know, if I said, hey, do you have your transcripts from that?

Of course, I'll bring him to you tomorrow. He'd show up with stacks of transcripts I had to read and pull out stuff. And so I end up writing this book. He leaves with the book. Warner Brothers, according to his lawsuit, Warner Brothers ends up getting a hold of the manuscript. Okay. And they use his manuscript and this guy, Guy Lawson, the article that they, they, that in Rolling Stone magazine,

they'd bought the rights to the article, and they used the article plus the book that I wrote, the manuscript, to supposedly write the movie War Dogs. Directed by Todd Phillips. Right. And with Jonah Hill plays Devereoli. Right.

And it's funny because, you know, anyway, you know, he's a scoundrel. He plays a scoundrel. He really, Devereux. I mean, you know, Jonah Hill did a great job. So that movie gets made. And then is it, did he really? Is it pretty accurate? It's, it's accurate only. I think that, uh, I think Devoroli is, is more cunning, more vicious.

Okay. Uh, you know, so how, how, how, how, how on point is the movie to like the manuscript you wrote? Did they go, did they veer off? No, they definitely veered off. Okay. What they did was, uh, they, they took scenes that were, definitely scenes from my manuscript but they swapped characters like they changed them they altered them in certain ways. Things that were certainly not in any of the other books. They're definitely

taken from my manuscript. But then instead of having Devereoli like in the movie Packow's his girlfriend is against the war and there's all these arguments between Packow's and his girlfriend about the war. She doesn't like the war. She didn't like him selling weapons so she's against it. In real life that was Devereoli. They just swapped the characters.

Oh. So Pac-Ols didn't have this great apartment. It was, that was Devereux. There's all these things that Devereolli, so they just swapped them because they couldn't, because they had Pack-O-S's life rights, not Devorollies. So they just swapped the two. Wow. But anyway, so.

So what were you doing when you found out this movie came out? Oh, I'm in the, I'm still in prison. Debroli stopped talking to me. My literary agent stopped talking to me. So the two of them are now suing warrant, where then, suing Warner Brothers. Who? Devereoli and my literary agent.

They end up teaming up and suing Warner Brothers. And nobody's talking to me. Nobody's telling me anything. I've never gotten, they're not sending me money. They're not answering calls. I'm writing letters. I mean, like I said, that's a whole other story. The point is, is they, I sue them, they sue me, they sue Warner, Warner, they end up.

There's all these things. I don't, I've signed a confidentiality agreement. I don't want to say what actually I know happened, but the bottom line is. Is this story on your website? Part of the story is on. The memoir is not on your website. No. Okay.

No, no, no. Actually, the memoir is on the website. I think you can buy the memoir if you click. If you go there, part of the story is, yes. The story about me meeting him and writing the book. Okay, okay. And then him getting out and him filing suit against Warner Brothers and that part is there. But then it kind of, I think I end it with me filing a lawsuit.

And then I don't say anything else. Because since then things have happened. We've had mediations. We've had several things happen. So that's currently going on. Currently going on right now. So I told you about some of the stuff. There's some of the stuff that's happened.

Where's Devoroli right now? Oh, he's in Miami. I saw him, I saw him a month or so ago, about a month or so ago. I went down for the deposition. That's a whole other story, man. It's insane. So, in matter of fact, my lawyer might actually be like, what the hell are you doing? Don't talk about that.

But I don't think I've said anything. It's not already in public record. But there's other stuff. Anyway, so we're still, oh, sorry, we're still going back and forth. Anyway, so I write his. Well, you know, I'm writing now, so now I've decided I want to write. I remember Devoroli had read my manuscript, my memoir, and he said it was a, he wanted me to write the story. He said, that's the best thing I've ever, best thing I've ever read. But in retrospect, after later I found out, he'd actually only read like, like, Dr. Seuss.

Yeah, he never really read anything. So I was like, okay, well, it's not really a compliment. Cat in the hat. You've read like three books. your whole life. So, anyway, so I write his story. Then I end up writing Marcus Shrinker's story. Okay.

Which Shrinker's a guy that jumped out of an airplane. He, in 2008, during the financial crisis, Shrinker had ripped off a bunch of people. And they were coming to arrest him and he knew that he was about to be indicted and arrested. So he takes his airplane up. and he calls in a distress signal saying, ah, the windshield imploded. Oh, I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding.

And he sets the autopilot, opens up the passenger door and jumps out. So he thinks the plane's going to go out over the golf. So he tried to fake his own death. It's going to go out of the golf, crash in the golf. Even if they find it, they'll think the body washed away. Right.

Well, because he had opened up the back, It burned off too much fuel and ended up running out of fuel about a mile or two before the Gulf. So it ends up landing on a swampy area. Windshield is not imploded. Windshield is perfectly intact. Going through the trees, rips off the wings, flips upside down, everything. But that windshield's fine. They catch up with him a couple days later in a campground.

And so I write this whole story about him. Although right away, he comes to me and asks me to write the story. So I go, okay, so I write this story. But during the course of writing the story, very quickly, I realize he's a pathological liar. He's just blatantly lying to me. He's trying to blame everything on his wife. He's trying to say,

is all his wife's fault. And so we end up going back forth. I basically convince him and eventually kind of con the truth out of him throughout the story. And I talk about that in the story. And the story's actually on my website, too. Same thing. Just read it.

Right. It's amazing. Did you finish it? I'm about three quarters away through. I'm a slow reader. That's why I buy the audio version so I can listen to it while I dropped it. You know, if you have an apple,

you know, you can just highlight it and push speak. Yeah, but I don't even have an iPad. I just got my laptop. You don't have an iPhone? Oh yeah, I guess I could do it on my iPhone. I do it all the time. Do you really? I hate reading. I'll get some text that's like, I'm like, what the hell? You hear the robot just talks to you? Yeah, just in or series, whatever her name is? Yeah, I'll just highlight it and push speak. Boom. That's what I that's what I gotta fucking do. I can't, man, I can barely read. I'm dyslexic. I'm, I'm horrible. Yeah. So, uh, so what happens is I write that story. Shrinker hates the story when I'm done with it. tells me, I'm not wanting

anything to do with it and you're an asshole. And I was like, I told you weren't going to be happy necessarily. And why did he hate it? Because he was a pathological liar and you kind of exposed him. Because I exposed and I explained to him that I explained to all these guys at the beginning. Look, you may not be thrilled with the way I portray you. But it's not up to you. You want me to write the story. This is what I do. If not, go somewhere else. Write your own story. You can do that. And they're like, no, no, I read the story you wrote on so and so. It's great. I want you to do my story. And sometimes I'm

I say, you know, if I, I just say it the way I see it. It's a recurring thing in a lot of stories, a lot of famous stories when they're translated by storytellers like yourself. In this specific light, there's a certain truth to it where it's painted in from a different perspective, like your perspective, right? And a lot of people who, you know, have famous stories, they try to take them themselves and try to paint their own picture of their life. of their experiences and it's never what it is from when someone from the outside it's very difficult

to see yourself for who you are yeah but they the problem is they want to they want to change it to how they want it to be they want it to be how they like it and it's never it's never as good right right you want to you always want to be smoother you always want to be more charming you always want to have the quick comeback and the truth is was in the moment did i did i say it back that fast no it took a minute you know i didn't quite would say it that smoothly or didn't this this didn't happen quite like that. You know, you're always trying to, especially if you're telling your own story, you're trying to tweak it a little bit, you know, because you genuinely see that. I would remember, that was one of the things about one of the memoirs I had read. One of the girls said, you know,

how it's the old joke is that I used to walk to school five miles uphill both ways, you know, when I was a kid. And she said, she had written a memoir about herself. And she said, I really did have to walk five miles to the bus stop and then back every day. She was, it was ridiculous when I was a little kid. Well, that was, and then she had moved. Well, when she later in life, like 35, 36 years old, she had written a memoir and happened to be taking a trip with her husband and went by her childhood home to see where she'd grown up.

She goes, turns out the bus stop was a quarter of a mile away from my house. She was, but as an eight-year-old, it seemed like five miles away. She said, so did I lie in the memoir? No, it's my memory. Her memory is true to her. You know, they always say that argument,

that whole, there's three versions of the truth, you know, your version. yours and then the truth. Right. But the truth is there is no truth. Right. Because there's only two people's version. Exactly.

So anyway, so I write, I end up, then I turn around after Shrinker's book, I end up writing a story about, from this guy, Doug Dodd. And Dodd comes to me and asks me if I'll write the story for him. He's, you know, please, please, please. You know, and I'm like, you don't really have a story. It's a drug story. And I don't want to do any drug stories. And, you know, everybody here's got a drug story. So it's like 80% of, like, just a ton of drug, drug dealers in the lows and mediums and just prison.

So were these guys, your stories getting passed around? People were seeing them. Yeah. So you print out. I print them out, of course. You print them out. And then I'd have four or five and they'd be getting passed around. So I've constantly had guys coming to me.

Hey, I just read this story. Do you have any others? I'm like, well, yeah, I actually do. And they go, can I read it? So guys I didn't even know we're coming up to me. Cox, I just finished bail out. I'm like, okay. They're like, you got any other ones?

Like, yeah, I do. Come by the unit and I'll give you one. So I write this guy, Doug Dodd's story, and I convince a guy to get, Dodd, I end up saying, look, I'll write your story, but only if I can get you into a magazine. So I write a bunch of reporters, and out of those reporters, they write back,

and one of them ends up saying, look, man, I'll pitch it, try and get you in a magazine. It's an interesting story because I'd already written this story. I'd written a synopsis of the story. Same synopsis is on my website. So I write it and I sent it this guy, Guy Lawson, because I remember Guy Lawson had written Devorollies, and it was my inn with Guy to say, hey, I met Devoroli.

He gave me, you know, I know Devoroli from prison. By the way, can you take a look at this story? So I wrote to several guys, but Guy actually contacted me and said, look, I'm very interested. And so he ends up getting it in Rolling Stone magazine, and we were supposed to write the article together. right because it was it he took it from the from me took my piece and basically barely even rewrote it okay and then submitted it and he said hey guess what you're going to be in rolling

stone magazine it's going to be from gilawson and you know matt cox and dug dot and i was like that's awesome well just before just before it comes the press he writes me he emails me and says that uh the editor at rollingstone doesn't want my name on the article or dodds just his I come to find out later after I got out of prison and talked to him. That wasn't true. So, yeah. He just used the data as an excuse. As an excuse.

And then he turns around and he sells the, he options the film rights to it. And he gave Dodd half of that and then I get a portion of what Dodd gets. So we have it. So I get a piece of that option. It's been option several times. Who's supposed to do that? Is it Todd, not Todd Phillips? Is it Todd Phillips supposed to do that?

What was that story? It's called OxyRub. Rush, but I ended up getting a book. Oxi Rush. Yeah. On the website, it's Oxi Rush. That's what I named it. In Rolling Stone, it was called the Dukes of Oxy. And then I ended up getting a book deal for Dodd. And I had written it as a memoir. And so the book deal, we got a book deal with Sky Horse Publishing. I mean, it was in

Barnes & Nobles and, you know, all the bookstores. So I got we got an advance. We got the whole, you know, it was a book. So I ended up getting a book deal. I wrote a whole book for him and it was called Generation Oxy. It's great. And it is a great book. Dodd's the same thing. One of those guys that when I started writing about him, he didn't like the way he was portrayed.

He's like, you said that I, you know, grew up in a trailer park. And I said, no, I didn't. And first of all,

I said, you, I said, most of your stories have, there's trailers. Makes me sound like I'm white trash. And I'm like, I mean,

what am I supposed to say? I mean, you're in Hudson, Florida. It's a bunch of white guys. And growing up in trailers, your best friend that you said had a,

bunch of money and was rich, yeah, he lives in a trailer. He's like, yeah, but it was a sweet double-wide. Only white trash would say that. So anyway, they're all driving, you know, they're drive pickup trucks. That's hilarious. So anyway, he's, so once again, he wasn't happy with the story necessarily either. So a lot of these guys aren't happy with me. But ultimately, it is a great story.

And he was at the end. He was very happy with the book. so but there were a few times where he was even like the way I said this or said that so um I remember one of the chapters I called upper class white trash high class white no upper class white trash and he was furious somebody used to call me that I don't say I have a problem with that you know I don't that's not that much of an insult people are so in so sensitive yeah they are so what ends up happening is I write That one. Then I end up writing another story. I wrote a story called, God, what was it? I wrote one called, I mean, it just goes on and on. I mean, I wrote, I wrote a story called, you know, Bent. It was about their credit card kid, which is probably the best story I have, by the way.

Oh, okay. Probably one of the best, not the, probably one of the best stories I have. Bent is about a kid that grew up homeless on the streets of Miami ends up being this one of the most prolific credit card counterfeiters in it ever. I mean, it's a total catch me if you can story. If you read it. Wow. Just highlight it and just push speak So I really ought to do Audio of just read them all You should I should but you know this I don't have I have so little time So I'm gonna do that we're gonna do that We're gonna we gotta record them all and we gotta we gotta post them on somewhere

YouTube channel that would be great because they're got a YouTube channel already We're just gonna we're gonna record them all and we're gonna post them on you do you know that I hope you do it I keep getting Things that say so-and-so subscribe to your channel Yeah, yeah Well you made a channel right and you left a couple comments on the video, on the first podcast. Right.

So they're seeing your username in the comments. They're clicking on you and subscribing to you. But I don't have any content. Right, but they're still subscribing to you. That's how YouTube works. You don't have that. There's channels that have no videos that have thousands of subscribers. That's crazy.

Yeah, YouTube's a weird place, man. So anyway. But they should go on there if they see your channel and subscribe because there will be content on there in the future. Initially, I thought, well, initially I thought they were subscribing to you. Oh. And then after I start, because I saw, so-and-so just subscribed it.

I was like, okay. And then eventually I read it. I was like, I got like three of these today. And I'm like, this is me. So, because I was thinking, I need to tell Danny. Hey, people are subscribing to your thing. So, anyway, so I write that one. I write the credit card kid one.

What a great kid. A great story. Yeah. Not a kid anymore. It's like 30 now. But just amazing. He's 30 now? Yeah, he's like 30-something.

So 30 years old now. I mean, just if you read it, you just, it's just, it's one of those things where you read it and you go that cannot be possible. And the whole thing is the whole time I'm writing his story, by the way, the whole time I'm writing his story, he would say stuff and I'd think, there's no way. Right. There's no way.

You know, listen, the average counterfeiter, when they sell cards on like a credit card forum, let's say I'm a credit card counterfeiter. And you're in Germany or something, you order credit cards from me, fake, you know, counterfeit credit cards. You order a bunch of them, blanks. You don't order, but maybe, these guys have minimum orders like 20 or 10. Because people want to order like three. It's not worth making three.

It's only $30. You know, so they're like, no, you've got to order at least 10. You got to order at least whatever the amount is. He's selling hundreds at a time. He's selling them to the Russians and some guy running a carding outfits throughout Europe that work for the Russians. So he's selling a thousand. He's selling 500. He's selling huge amounts.

And I remember thinking at one point, bullshit. It's no way. Then I get his transcripts. And he was caught with like 400 cards. And sending 400 cards to one place, 400 cards. Or was it 300? I'd have to look at it to be sure. But it doesn't matter.

300 is outrageous. The average guy gets, they're like 20. So the numbers that he was giving me were always verify. For instance, how do you verify that somebody was homeless? He says he was homeless. How do I know you're homeless? I don't know that. Sure enough. And first of all, I can't get your juvenile record. Absolutely, freedom of information won't allow that. So while I was sending out Freedom of Information Act to verify other arrests and things that had happened throughout his life, I end up getting a warrant for him and attached to the warrant is another warrant from when he was a missing juvenile

and he was homeless, and he had absconded or escaped from the bridges, which is a homeless facility for homeless teens, and it says he's a homeless juvenile. I mean, so he's homeless. He said he was homeless.

It's perfectly, is verified. I can verify now. I had like two or three pieces of paper that list him as homeless. Right. When he was like 15 and 16 years old. Right.

Still ended up getting a high sole diploma, which I always find that amazing. So he's just got, it's just literally, all of I'm getting these documents, it's just, phenomenal the whole story and you're getting I'm getting indictments and I can see this is him on the indictment here's another he's this is another one he's indicted here's that you know you can you get

all this stuff and you get this the Freedom of Information Act what's so funny about getting it in is that technically you're not allowed to have other inmates material but because the COs and the SIS which runs like the internal security they knew what I was doing they would every once in while they'd catch something coming through, freedom of, coming through the, coming through the mail room, and they'd call me into S-I-S, and they would say,

and they would go, hey, Cox, we got an indictment on so-and-so, and then we also have this one, this is a police report, and they'd go, what's going on? And I'd go, I'm writing a story. They'd go, well, what's the story? And I'd go, okay, listen,

the kid was, grew up homeless on the streets of my, and I'd tell them real quick, boom, boom, boom, boom, they'd sit there and they'd go, that's a good fucking story. Okay, he's okay with you having this. I'm like, do I need to call him? I'm like, no, man, he knows I'm going, okay, you're.

I mean, they were that cool with me. It was great. Every once in a while I'd go and knock on the door after something was supposed to show up two weeks earlier, I'd knock on the door and I'd go, hey, do you have any mail for me? And they're like, hold on, Coxie, I think we do have something. Yeah, this. And they get a sealed package and give it to me, they go, hey, wait a minute, do I need to look at that? I go, no, it's just an indictment for a guy that's no big deal.

And they're like, okay, cool. Wow. It was really hilarious. Wow. I got called in one time because a homicide detective had called because I'd ordered a bunch of documents for two witnesses from a guy. Another guy's story I wrote called Indefensible where two of his witnesses get they die of mysterious circumstances. They die of overdoses. They end up dying of overdoses. They live about a mile or two from the from the DEA agent who gets indicted also and ends up killing himself in the middle of his own case. the same agent that ended up getting my buddy indicted. So his two main witnesses die mysteriously just before the trial. And he ends up going to trial, doesn't have his witnesses. And the only real, and the guy that got him indicted is this DEA agent.

So my buddy ends up getting 20 years. And then the DEA agent ends up getting indicted himself for lying in this guy, my buddy's case, who's now in jail. I mean, it's just, I know And the DEA agent ended up killing himself? Second day of trial. Goes home that night, sticks a gun in his mouth, blows his brains out.

And I'm sure the DEA agent was responsible for the witnesses dying. I mean, I, you know, I don't know that. You don't know that, but I don't know that. But let me, they both died of the same chemical compound that killed both of them. They were both witnesses. They were both, you know, one of them is a CI who's going to get on the stand and say, this guy had nothing to do with it. The other one is a guy who's going to get on the stand and say,

I'm the one to own the place, I'm the one opened it. This guy lives in California. He doesn't live in Louisiana. He had nothing to do with the running of the company. Wow. Instead, my guy goes and he basically is the guy that looks like he's running the whole thing. So the point is, so I wrote that story. So once again, I called in.

They're like, I got a homicide detective from Louisiana calling me. Are you ordering documents from a dead DEA agent that committed suicide? I'm like, hey, that's Freedom of Information Act. I need that. I'm sitting there arguing with them, and they're like, well, Cox, I mean, you got your and stuff on dead people. People are killing themselves. And I'm like, well, I mean, this Freedom of Information Act, I need it.

So, you know, that's one of the thing that was funny on the podcast, like I was reading some of the comments. And some of these guys are like, I don't believe what he's saying. I wouldn't believe this guy's DNA results. Yeah, it's like, it's like, I'm like, okay, there's. evidence. You know what I'm saying? I don't have to make it up. I'm sorry that you work at Walmart. Yeah, people are lazy. You know what I'm saying? And the comments are just like the comments section, I think I told you this. The comment section is just like road rage. It's equivalent to road rage. Somebody's in their car. They're pissed off about something. They're mad at how their day went. And you fucking cut them off. They're going to scream, fucking flick you off. Fuck you. But as soon as you guys are, if you guys were face to face in that situation, that would never happen. You know, it's like when I said the whole. I have a degree in fine arts.

I must have said it a bunch because people started making these comments. Like, oh, they were mocking me. And I went through and I was like, one guy was like, oh, he went on and on. I said, hey, listen, man, I guess I said it a lot. And I'm sorry. My bad. I didn't realize that. Sorry, dude.

He came back and said, he comes back and says, hey, bro, no, it was all jokes, man. You're awesome. You're great. Yeah, they're just trying to get some likes. Yeah, trying to, yeah, get a rise out of somebody. Anyway. Some of them are really funny. Yeah, some of them were pretty funny.

So the one guy said he'd take a shot every time. Tommy says he's got a different. Every time he said you got a fine arts. And then he says, one guy said, I've already got alcohol voicing. I'm only 10 minutes in. So I love it. Okay. So I end up writing, I'm writing these stories, right?

I mean, I write one cash and coke. I write cash logistics. I write pain. I write. So I'm writing these synopsies. And I'm also writing books. Okay. And guys are coming to me left and right with their stories.

How deep are you into your sentence right now? Oh, God. I was, how deep was I? 2000, this started, it started in 2012-13. But here's the thing. At the same time, I meet a guy named Frank Amadeo. Frank, you've heard it because I think I mentioned his story. He's the guy who is, he was a lawyer.

He's disbarred. He is a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia. And he has lost his rights. he has an actual guardian. He stole $180 million from the federal government and was using it to try and take over the world. I mean, literally... How did he steal a hundred-ean?

He thinks God's talking to him, and he thinks he's preordained to be emperor of the world, and he will have a serious conversation with you about it, and he knows how insane it sounds, and it's the most amazing thing you've ever talked about. The whole time was locked up. 12 and a half years. I never met anybody, never met a criminal that was literally a bond villain. He's a bond villain. He is a James Bond villain. He wants to take over the world because he's been

preordained by God to be emperor of the world. And what's the title of that? And he's, he's not a drooling idiot. He's a fucking lawyer. He's crazy, but he's crazy brilliant. Oh, the name of that story is um, oh, it's insanity. It's insanity. This is a guy who there was a coup, there was an attempted, The Condolees said in the Congo, the Congo government said that he backed a political coup to take over the Congo. He says that's not what happened. You know, he's trying to buy airplanes. He's trying, he's got, he owns a security company that is like a small blackwater type security company. They're providing security in Afghanistan.

He owns a company that builds a portable satellites for the government. He owns all these different companies, and he's really building up like an internal, like, little militia. And he's planning on taking over the Congo and then going throughout all of Africa. He told you all this? No, no. There's a, matter of fact, there is a documentary on him on YouTube called Nine Days in the Congo. Okay. And it talks about how he had sent these guys to Congo, and they end up getting, the Congolese end up,

kidnapping them and they say they were trying to take to it was a military takeover it was like a they were going they had guns and they had this and he's saying that's not what was happening i was just backing a political candidate uh he had ex secret service agents working for him FBI military guys i mean he's it's serious wow he got 22 years so anyway i meet frank and i go to frank and i say frank and you know hey he's like Oh, Matt, I've talked to you a few times. How are you doing? I'm like, good, good.

You mind, this guy thinks he's taking over the world. So you got to be. You got to be. Tread lightly. Yeah. You never know what Frank's going to do. So he's bipolar. So he's, how's it going?

I said, well, look, you know, my buddy told me to talk to you. You know, I got 26 years. And he's like, yeah, I heard you had a big sentence. I'm like, right. I said, well, here's the thing. I did dateline. And I tell him what they told me. This is what the government told me.

This is what the government told me. And he goes, well, your attorney didn't understand the law because to get a sentence reduction or a Rule 35, you have to have arrests. Or you can further the investigation, but it has to do with a criminal matter. And doing a public service announcement isn't a part of that or an interview isn't a part of that. I said, well, I don't have any arrests. This is what they told me to do. So, and he's like, yeah, well, she misunderstood the law. So we can file a 2255.

I'm like, yeah, but you only have one year. from your sentence to file a 2255. And he goes, well, yeah, unless there's new evidence. He said, so when was the last time, you know, so we start talking and he says, yeah, I think we can get around that. I think we can do something called equitable tolling, which every time they ask you to do something, it resets the one year. And he said, when was the last time?

I said, well, I just did this ethics and fraud course, and it just came out, but they just told me they wouldn't give me a sentence reduction. He goes, okay, when did you do that? I said, this time. And he goes, okay, well, we'll go with that date. So I'd already talked to a lawyer on the street, and a lawyer on the street said, there's nothing they could do. I was doomed.

So, you know, it just, I had talked to Ross Reback, which was my literary agent. He had contacted his sister. His sister said, there's just nothing he can do. He'd contacted another lawyer. He said there's nothing he can do. but my crazy lawyer, Frank, says, yeah, I think I can get you a synit introduction.

Frank doesn't charge either, by the way. So, I don't have anything to lose. Right. Fuck it, yeah, let's go for it. What were you doing for him in exchange? Writing his story? No, well, I did write his story, but not then. I didn't write it then.

I wasn't even planning on writing it then. He just does the paperwork for a ton of guys. He's got like 30, 40, 50, he's working like 50 people's cases at all time. You understand? He has guys that do nothing but type for him. He has guys that do, he teaches the legal research class. The A school, like I teach the real estate, he taught the legal research class. Wow.

So he's training an army of drug dealers and sex offenders to do research on the legal computer and type up people's motions. He's got a small law, really he's got a good size law firm inside the prison. so amazing wow so he takes all my stuff he writes it all up I send it in months later

government comes back and says absolutely not yes what Mr. Cox is saying is true but he's time barred means it's been more than one year

and the equity there's no there's no equitable tolling you know there's no no that doesn't apply so

okay fine so we go then the judge comes back says okay now then we file tort, then they file a motion back, and then we're about to file another motion, and suddenly the government sends in a motion and says, Your Honor, we'd like for you to appoint a lawyer

for Mr. Cox so that I can speak with, so we can discuss filing a Rule 35 for him, a sentence reduction. Okay. So we're willing to file a sentence reduction for you. Wow. But you understand it's how much. Now it's how much. And they're saying you have to drop your 2255, your motion, you have to drop this and we'll file something.

So I don't really trust them. Of course not. They fly a lawyer down. Lawyer flies down. I meet her at Coleman, you know, that take me in the lawyer's room. And we sit down, I sit down with the attorney-client room, and I sit down with her. And she says, okay, I've read your motion. And she says, you know, Matt, it's very well written, but you really don't have a chance.

I mean, you're going to lose the motion. And she said, I mean, it's just not going to work. and I went, okay, she said, but you did do a good job. I said, well, I didn't write that. And she goes, well, who wrote it? I said, Frank wrote it. And she goes, Frank, who's that?

I said, he's a disbarred lawyer. She said, you had a disbarred lawyer, write your, right, do your, dude is doing your legal work? She was in here, and I went, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, really, be honest. I said, it's worse than that. I said, he's mentally incompetent. I said, he's lost his rights.

I said he has a guardian. I said, he thinks he's emperor of the world. And she says, what? I said, yeah, no, he's mentally, he's got mental problems. He's crazy. I said, I mean, I can say that because he's legitimately crazy. I've got doctors that say he's crazy. And she's like, and that's who did your legal work?

And I go, well, yeah, because all the sane lawyers on the streets that I didn't have a chance. She goes, Matt, you don't have a chance. I go, and yet they appointed you. I said, and yet they're already saying they're willing to file a reduction for me. And you're here. So I said, who's crazy? I said, you wouldn't have filed it. Nobody else would.

Right. And she goes, okay, well, they're saying. saying that they'll, they're only going to give you one level. That's it. She says, but they will bring you back in front of the court and let you argue for more. And I went, I said, okay, I'll go with that because that's what Frank had told me, look, just whatever they offer you, tell them you want to go back in front of the judge. So I said, I'll do that. So I go to Frank, I explained it to Frank. Frank says, go back, argue. So we go back, we argue in front of the judge. Mr. Cox did this, Mr. Cox did this, Mr. Cox did that.

Then the judge, we were asking for like, we were asking for like nine levels off, which would have been like immediate release almost, basically. It would have been immediately released. Wow. And I'd already done, I'd already done like seven or eight years at this point. Well, this was 2013, so I'd done, I'd done six years. No, seven, wait, I'd done seven years. So I go back in front of the judge, and the judge goes, okay, and the government says,

Your Honor, we want you to give him one level. That's 40 months off his sentence. And we're saying, we want immediate release. And the judge goes, okay, okay, well, I've listened to the government. I've listened to you. And he said, to the government, he said, what Mr. Cox has done for all these public service announcements, he said, what you're asking for one level isn't nearly enough.

I'm thinking, yeah. He goes, Mr. Cox, he said, you're asking for nine levels, which would almost be immediate release. He said, that was never going to happen. I remember being like, oh my God. And he goes, I thought about it. I'm giving you three levels. Wow.

Three levels was seven years. Keep in mind, every level gets smaller and smaller as you go. So that 40, the next level would have been like 37. The next level would have been, you know, it keeps dropping out. So it ended up being like seven years. That's huge. Which was a big deal. But keep in mind with that seven years, it recalculates your game time.

It takes me from my outdate, takes my outdate down to like, is it too much time? No. Oh, shit. No, my phone's just going off. Oh, okay. So, sorry. So what happens is I get seven years off. I go back.

Once again, when I was in front of the judge and I had talked, by the way, crying like a baby. I mean, just pathetic crying. It's just, it was just the worst row. So. Did you do that on purpose? No, no, I just got so fucking emotion. Because your whole life's on the line. I mean, you know, it's just horrible.

And I mean, I'm, you know, I'm kind of a pussy. Okay. So I just, you know, it's just, it's just such an emotional situation. So, you know, I go back to Coleman. So instead of my outdate 2030, now it's like, it's like 20, 24, low 24, high 23, basically, it's 24. Okay. So it's good because they recalculate you. You get your gain time.

So you don't really get it seven years off that, because you remember you get your chunk off to begin with. So now you're not doing as much time. you get less gain time. So it's really not seven years. It ends up being like six years. I got it. So instead of 23, my update being 2023,

it doesn't be like 2024. So the point is, is now it's like, fuck, I mean, it's still, it's, I've got like nine more years to go or something.

You know, it's ridiculous. And I'm, so I get there. And I remember I went to Frank and I said, hey, Frank,

I said, he goes, I heard you got seven years off. I said, yeah, and I appreciate it, man. I said,

uh, because we were hoping for half, you know, and I said, got like eight, nine years to go. And he looked at me and he goes. How much time did he have, by the way? Do you remember?

Oh, Frank? 22 years. 22. Wow. So Frank looked at me and he goes, I said, yeah. I said, it's still a lot of, I got like eight, nine years left to go. And he goes like this. He goes, we're going to have to eat this elephant one spoonful at a time.

Hmm. And I just remember fucking going. Fuck. He said, we'll figure something out else out. We're going to get this taken care of. Don't you worry. I was like, okay. but, you know, it was much more doable.

Oh, yeah. You know? So, so I'm still writing stories. I'm still corresponding with a bunch of, with reporters. And so 2000 and despite, like, this was basically now 2014. So 2014 comes along, 2014 comes along. 2014 comes long and I'm writing all these stories and my mom's coming to see me and you know now I'm just thinking okay well I've got I got like nine years left I think I'd like yeah I had like yeah I had like nine years left so eight or nine years I think I always said like eight because I was going to take the drug program you get a year off for the drug program I was like so you know like a one day I'm sitting there and now keep in mind too them so they're cutting my sentence is

unheard of for somebody that did not have any arrests. So keep in mind, people don't understand. Right. So you did, yeah. Right. So you didn't flip on anybody that led to an arrest. That led to an arrest. Oh, trust me. I tried. You tried to. Try to. Right. So, you know, and that, you know, and there are people, you know, oh, he's a rat. He's this. Fuck you. You do the time. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you don't know what

you're talking about. So the point is, is that, so that was just unheard of. And that's like Frank Abagnale stuff. You know, Catch Me If You Can. He cooperates with the FBI. They get him out of prison. But you know, if you've ever read the book, which I read both of his books. One was Catch Me If You Can. The Second One was The Art of the Steel. Guess What? They didn't get him out of jail. He did all of his time. You know in the movie? You've seen the movie Catcher Me If You Can? Remember how at the end, Tom Hanks talks to him and they get him out and they get him out and they get him out and they get him out and they get him out. He's not what happened. He actually does all of his time. He gets out. He's on probation. he ends up eventually working with the FBI periodically, really just teaches classes at Quantico.

And he teaches banks, and then eventually he opens up his own secure document company where he makes secure documents. He makes tickets that are hard to counterfeit, you know, for like the Super Bowl, stuff like that. Right. So, I mean, you know what I'm saying? So people are like, oh, yeah, yeah, like Frank.

So that's what happened with like Frank Abagnale. No, not like Frank Abagnale because it didn't really happen with Frank Abingdale. Okay. But I actually got my sentence reduced for these things and for writing the ethics fraud course. So now I'm sitting there. So I'm still writing the stories and I'm thinking, okay, well, fuck it. I mean, I'm going to have a bunch of books when I get out and a bunch of stories and maybe I can do something, you know? I start kind of having a game plan and okay, well, if I'll write so many stories and maybe if I can get a film agent, I could option some of these stories.

And there was a guy named Jeff Joshua Bierman who had come out with a website called Epic and he wrote the story that became the movie Argo. Okay. About the hostages.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wrote a story called The Great Escape, which was in Wired, and it got bought by, it was actually bought by Matt Damon, then it turned into Brad Pitt, then Brad Pitt sold it to, to, what's the guy's name

that was in the movie? Brian Cranston? Brian Cranston? No, no, the guy. that was in the movie was In Argo? Wasn't Brian Cranston in Argo? I don't know who...

He was the lead role of Argo. The guy for Breaking Bad? No, no, no. I'm talking about Argo. Argo. He was in it, but he was like the CIA director. He's not the main guy. The main guy's Ben Affleck.

Ben Affleck. He ends up buying it and getting it produced. But I'm saying, Beer Men had come up with the concept that I'm going to start writing stories. I'm just going to stick them on a fucking website and let people bid on them. I'll option them that way.

Yeah. So I thought that's what I could do. I could get a website going. I could put them on the website. Maybe if I could get something on the street to help me. So I'm trying to figure out something I can do from in prison. Because the one thing you can do in prison, you're not allowed to run a business, but you are allowed to write books and articles and sell them piece mail.

You can't work for the New York Times on a W-2, but I can write articles and- and sell them and make money? As an independent contractor? Right. You could be an independent contractor for the New York Times or for Rolling Stone, but you can't work on a W-2 because then you're an employee. So I thought, I can start doing that. And it turns out and then Sean Woods ends up reaching out to me from Rolling Stone and asked me to start sending him stories, story ideas. Other guys, other reporters start reaching out to me.

And so things are going good, right? So things are all right. So, and I'm writing books. And this guy comes on the compound by the name of, of a Ron Wilson. Ron Wilson was like 66, 66 years old. He comes on and he's a, he is a gruff old guy,

pissed off, irritable. And he's, he is from South Carolina. He had run a Ponzi scheme for, I want to say, 10 to 15 years. Okay. Where he stole 57, million. He actually said he stole over a hundred million or something, but he had paid out so much.

So it ended up being a $57 million Ponzi scheme. Wow. Where the bulk of the money that he had taken is from people for their retirement funds. So you're giving him your money thinking he's investing it in silver and you think that you've been giving him $20,000 every year for 10 years and you think you've got $3 million, but the truth is you don't have nothing. So your whole retirement is gone. And you're 67, you're about to retire. He's done this for $57 million.

He's got, forget how many victims, 100 and some odd, 1,000 victims or something, 900 victims. I forget what the dollar amount was. And so for some reason, he didn't talk to anybody. Somebody came up to him. You know, it's a whole click thing. There's the white guys, the black guys, the Hispanic guys, that sort of thing. So there's a lot of sex offenders, right?

So one of this The white guys Like the solid white guys don't want to talk to you know Nobody wants to deal with the sex offenders And a lot of sex offenders will come in and they'll say they're here for fraud For some reason they think they could get away with that So But you get

How do they get exposed for a lot? How do they get caught lying? Very quickly you get caught because for one thing what happened is this guy Kenny King would say Cox come here and I go Christ what can he goes This fucking see this white guy over here and I go Yeah, Kenny.

And he goes, he says he's here for fraud. Go talk to him. I go, what the fuck? Kenny, I don't want to go talk to the fucking guy. He says he's here for fraud. He looks like it. You know what they call sex offenders in prison? They call him either.

Pedophile? No, they call him chomos for childmuch. Or they call him Moes. So they go, he looks like a fucking chomo to me. And I'd be like, I don't give a fuck if he's a chome. What, bro, just don't talk to me. Go, I don't want him sit in the TV room with us. See, they've got the white TV room, the black TV room, the Hispanic TV room.

He's like, I don't want him in that room if he's a sex offender. Right. And he goes, go talk to him. And I'm like, fuck. So I go over and I go, hey, man, what's up? My name's Matt. I said, I'm here for fraud too. I heard you're here for fraud.

And the guy would be like, yeah, I'm here for fraud to him. I go, okay, what kind of fraud? Yep, that's all you need. Yeah, I go, what kind of fraud? And they go, I remember this is exact a conversation I had a guy with the guy one time. He goes, it was credit card fraud. And I went credit card fraud. I said, okay, how much time did you get?

He goes, I got three years. Three years is like the minimum. It's like a minimum mandatory for sex offenders. The minimums you can get, minimums you can pretty much get is three years. And I got three years. I went, okay, so what were you doing? He was there was credit card fraud.

I said, were you carding? Were you counterfeiting cards? No, I was doing credit card fraud. I said, I understand, but what were you doing? Were you getting blanks? Were you getting fools? Were you buying them off of a forum? Where were you getting the cards?

Right. Well, I was taking little bits of money out of multiple people's cards, and that's why I got away with it for so long. long. That's why I got so much time. So much time, you got three years. And I was like, that's not a lot of time. And I went, so how were you getting the money out of the cards? I don't understand what you were doing. He's like, and he looks at me,

and he goes, um, it's, it's not, this isn't a learning experience. And I went, oh, it's total bullshit. Okay. And I looked over, I remember Kenny was sitting there. I looked at Kenny and I go, he's a chomo. And I would just walk off. And, and I remember Kenny goes, how did you, Kenny, Kenny goes, how did you? Kenny goes, how can you be so sure? I said, because I said the bulk of fraud guys are narcissistic and are arrogant.

They can't wait to brag to you about their crime. I don't know if you notice this. I know in the comments, in the comments section for sure, this guy's bragging. You're right. You're right. I brag. I come off arrogant. And absolutely.

And I am. You know, it's not that I don't know that what I've done is wrong. Right. But it's that I get excited about it. I, you know, I can't wait to tell everybody, hey, look how smart I. Look what I figured out. You know, it's, and it's fucking obnoxious. But I've never met a fraud guy that doesn't do it.

He didn't do it. And that's the one thing they couldn't fake. You might, even if he had his story down and he knew what he was doing. Right. His character was off. His character's off. So, sure enough, he ended up being a sex offense. and he'd, I forget he's downloading child porn or something.

Jesus. So, you know, it's just a, there's so many weirdos. So, anyway, what ends up happening is, so Kenny sees me and Kenny goes, hey, Cox, this guy just got here. They see that old guy right there? And I'm like, yeah. This is the Ponzi scheme guy. Wilson, he goes, go talk to him.

And I went, fuck, King. You want to make sure he wasn't a chomo. Yeah, he goes, he looks like he might be a chomo. I remember I looked at him, and I mean, I just looked at him and I went, no, he's here for fraud. Really? Oh, you could just tell. How?

Erogent. Erigant. Listen, nobody, whole time I was there, nobody ever came up to me or met me for even a minute and said sex offender. Right. Ever.

He talked to me for two minutes and you're like, fucking cocky motherfucker. Yeah. It ain't a sex offender. He's fucking here for fraud or something. So, sure enough,

I went, fuck. But I thought, you know, he is here for fraud. I could tell. I could just see it. So I walk over to him, I said, hey, I said, you just get here? And he's like, yeah.

I mean, did this, did one of these, I mean, blatant. Yeah. And I'm like, look, can I already like him? And I was like, I said, some, they said you were here for fraud. I'm here for fraud too. He's like, mm-hmm. And I said, and he goes, what'd you get? And I go, I don't know, like, they said like 15 million or something.

I said, but it was, my dollar loss is like $6 million. And he looked at me. He goes, yeah, 57 million. Like, you're shit. He's already trying to out, do you? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I remember thinking, I said, nice, that's a nice lick. Like that.

And he goes, yeah, yeah, it was all right. And so now he's like, you know, he's like, yeah, kindred spirits, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, what, what was it? What would you do? And he goes, it's a Ponzi scream. I said, what was the conveyance?

What did you use? And he goes, silver. I said, nice. I said, so what, I don't, what were you trading the silver or he goes yeah it was commodity I was trading the silver on the you know I was I was a silver dealer so he starts explaining it now he loves

me yeah I'm interested and we're talking the same language how did you get your clients how did you get it we start talking it's over he loves me yeah nobody likes him why not well first of all he was cooperating against other people

that had helped him okay um two how did anybody know that though Well, because they brought him back to court. Okay. So one day, you just got sentenced and four months later, you're on the packout list. Sorry, the list where they're packing your stuff up and you're moving.

So he gets moved. Two weeks later, he's back. Where'd you go? It wasn't two weeks later. It was like three weeks later. He comes back. Where did you go for three weeks? You didn't go to another prison and get transferred.

You went back to court and came back. maybe it was a month or so. But he left and came back. Actually, the first time I think it was only like three or four weeks. Because I don't think he made it the first time. Like they changed the court date so they sent him back. Then like two months go by, they do it again. Everybody's like, he's cooperating.

Right. Fucking guys, he's being moved back and forth. He's cooperating. So, you know, and so one, they don't like him because he's a snitch. Even though, like I said, at Coleman, 50% of the population at Coleman is basically sex offenders. The other 50% of the population, 90% of them cooperated. So, you know, basically, like I said, out of every unit, out of 150 guys, you got about six guys that didn't cooperate. So you've got all these guys who took pleas.

Well, you know who didn't cooperate, the guys that went to trial. Very few people go to trial. So you went to trial, you lost you. You didn't cooperate. So you got the guys that took pleas, which all cooperated, sitting there saying, fucking snitch. You had a 25-year sentence. you're doing 15. Fuck you,

Cuck, shut up. You know what I'm saying? Right. How did that happen? Right. I know what you're talking about. But see, you know, I, you're there long enough. Guys start talking about their case.

And as they say stuff, oh, I got caught with fucking 10 bricks. And you're thinking, boop, that's a 25-year minimum mandatory. How's this guy doing 15? Right. They just slip up. So the point is, is they don't like him for all the wrong reasons. So, but he liked me. So we start walking around.

and hanging out and everything. And he was particularly, could be a particularly vicious person. He also had moments when he cried about his crimes, just in tears talking about him. And other times when he would talk about doing something absolutely vicious, we're talking about taking some woman who's got like multiple sclerosis and taking her last dollar,

and she thinks she's got a million dollars in the bank and she hands over three or four hundred thousand dollars and he just pisses it away. And it's like, fuck, she thought you ran it up to over a million dollars in a year and what'd you do with it he goes I think I bought this antique carriage

and I went what he said yeah he bought a lot of antiques he's oh it's beautiful and I also it's like are you serious I mean you're like fuck I mean she's got multiple scrosis she he's like so what you know what I'm saying was those kind of one minute

he was just he was a complicated guy yeah so anyway the point is that I'm walking around with him and he keeps talking about how he actually literally dug up money. He had money buried in in ammunition cans, these big tin cans. He had money buried cash and actual gold and bullion and silver. So when he got caught eventually, he goes and actually

digs up the money and gives the Secret Service several million dollars. Secret Service always thought that there was money he had hidden. And they were arguing with him and he was saying that's not true. They're like out of $57 million you only put aside a couple million? Come on bullshit. He's like, what are you talking about? I also had the money in the bank that you got. And they're like, no, you didn't give us all the money. But they couldn't prove it.

It's too complicated. There's too much cash involved and that sort of thing. So we're walking. He's like, yeah, I'm really worried about this. I said, don't worry about it. You're going to cooperate. They're going to give you an interruption. Oh, they're not.

They're not. They're not. He said, they're going to fuck me. You watch it. Just like, well, then you'll follow 2255. We'll have Frank do it. You'll be fine. You know, just keep doing what you're doing.

It'll be taken care of it. So this goes on for months and months and months. He's going back and forth. And so one day we're walking around and he says, you know, I've got fucking like eight years left. Best case, maybe nine. 2000. And this is 2016 at this point?

No, 2000. Yeah, 2015. I think it's 2015. I'd have to check. Don't quote me on the record. So we're walking one day and he says, I'm really worried about them the money there.

I think they're going to find that money. They're going to look for that money. I'm like, you don't know if they're looking for it. Oh, no, they're going to fuck me over. I go, bro, I said, listen, what are you doing? If there's no money hidden, which he told me a hundred times, there's no money. I said, if there's no money hidden, they can't, they'd have to find the money.

So you're good. I said, so don't worry about it. And he goes, like, what are you worried about? And he goes, he looks at me, he goes, can I trust you. And I go, I remember I specifically said, probably not. And he goes, he goes, I did put away some money. And I went, really? I said, do you bury it? And he goes, no, I gave $150,000 to my wife. But now she's divorcing me. Now we're getting divorced. And his wife hates his guts because he was having an affair with this woman. She found out, during the course of this whole thing,

she finds out he's been having an affair for a couple years. She hates his guts. He's like, she hates my gut so much, she'll probably turn the money in. I said, nah. I said, she's been hiding too long. She'll get in trouble at this point. And he goes, no, I don't know. I don't know. And so I keep walking and we're walking and walking. And then he says, he says, I said, so it's $150,000. I said, you know, we're not going to find it. He goes, well, problem is my brother, my brother's got some money too. He's got like 30 grand. And I went, okay, so your brother, he goes, well, if they start interviewing. doing people I said, well, they're not going to. Relax. You're going to be fine. And I remember walking around thinking, did he just tell me he's hiding Ponzi scheme money? Did he just fucking tell me that? And I remember thinking, is that enough for me to get a sentence reduction?

First thing that you thought of. First thing that I mean, look, I'd love to tell you, you know, that, you know, oh, I struggled with it. And I did struggle with it. I laid in bed for about a month or so telling myself, it was. was probably a month, laying in bed thinking, that's not enough. It's not that I had a problem cutting his throat. No problem at all. Right. I don't want to do another eight or nine years. He doesn't give a fuck about that guy. He doesn't give a fuck about you either.

He doesn't care about me. I don't care about him. I've seen too many fucking guys make the mistake of maybe not saying something, like, not telling on somebody. And then, like, I'm not, oh, I just took a plea and went to prison and did my 10 years. Remember, like I told you about the one guy? Like tough guys who? Yeah, yeah.

Fucked that. I'm not going to tell on nobody. I'm not going to tell fuck that. And they get 10 years and I'm not going to tell on my buddies. And then their buddy gets caught. I told you about the one guy you got like 12 years. Then these other two guys get caught. First thing they do is that he could have told on them.

He doesn't. Then they get caught for something else. First thing they do is they tell on him he gets another 10 years. He ends up doing 20. I mean, I've seen that happen several times. So they thought they had too much dignity. They had too much self-respect to snitch on somebody. I'm not going to snitch on.

Right. I'm not going to break the code. Yeah, yeah. There is no code. And then those guys ended up flipping on him. Of course. Not just that. You know how many times people will like not, they will not cooperate.

They won't cooperate against someone. And then the moment they get sentenced and sent to prison, that person cuts them off. They don't send them money. They don't come see them. They don't do anything. And then they end up getting busted up six months later or a year later because they're still fucking selling drugs or doing something. And then they try and get you in trouble or even if they don't. It doesn't matter.

The point is that, and I'm telling you because you were a buddy of mine, and then you fucking abandoned me. Right. You know, the whole Omarta thing is that while I'm in prison, you'll help take care of me and my family. You'll, you know, no, that's not what happens. It's a fucking lie. It's fiction. Right. So most white-collar criminals and drug dealers and everybody across the board, 90% of them basically roughly cooperate.

So sex offenders, like I said, typically don't have the option of cooperating. There's no one to cooperate with. You're on a computer, you're looking at some guys looking up porn, child porn. They bust him. Right. Who's it going to cooperate against? It's just him alone in his room. So the point is that, so I think to my-

Yeah, like I told you earlier, I had another guy in the podcast, mafia guy who basically said that there's no, there's no, there's no code, that code is broken constantly in the mafia even. Right. Nobody does not snitch on somebody else. There's always guys that are rolling on other people, flipping on other people, and there's no code of honor. It's broken constantly. Yeah, it's over.

It's, it's just fools. And if you, and, that's how he ended up getting all his time. Right. Yeah. And what's so funny is that people will sit there. You got some guy who works at fucking Walmart who's like, fuck dad, I wouldn't say anything. You work at Walmart. Don't tell me how to be a fucking gangster.

Okay. You're not a fucking tough guy. Exactly. You work at Walmart. Stop it. Right. So you've got those guys who, sit there and they've watched a couple of movies and they think they know how it is,

but you don't know shit till that fucking door locks and nobody will answer your calls. Somebody else is calling your kid dad or your dad, your kids calling somebody else daddy and your girlfriend's not answered the fucking phone and you're going, fuck. God, that's got to be the fucking worst feeling. It's the worst of guys that have wives and shit and go to prison for five years. And they're on the phone on Saturday morning going, why didn't you fucking answer the phone?

What the fuck were you? It's like, oh, Jesus, bro, what are you doing? They're just torturing themselves. It's horrible. It's horrible. So, you know, it's just that whole thing is just, it's a fucking myth. It's bullshit. And what's always funny is that if your daughter or your son got raped or killed and the neighbors saw the person, you'd want them to cooperate.

Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, if so-and-so had stolen, if your parents had lost their life savings, and I knew where that money was, and I could help get your parents' life savings back. you want me to cooperate. Right. People just don't want you to cooperate when they're involved. Right, exactly. So Wilson tells me this and I'm like,

ah, you're going to be fine, you're going to be fine. You told you where the Ponzi scheme money was to staff. Yeah, some of the money. He just told me a little bit. Or he gave it to individuals. He didn't actually have cash hidden, like, right. He gave some cash to his wife who now hates his cuts.

That's a problem. And to his brother who's like a devout Christian or something. Okay. So he's concerned. And I said, you're going to be fine. I'm sure it's no big deal. It's no big deal. So I like,

in bed thinking, fuck, should I say something? They didn't want to give me anything last time. The U.S. attorney was pissed. They gave me seven years. She's not going to give me anything this time. So I thought, so I go to Frank and I mention it to Frank. Oh, you did? Yeah, I went to Frank and talked to Frank, and Frank went, I don't know.

Maddie said, I'm not, they're not, it's whatever it is, we're going to have to fight. Whatever happens. So I end up having to call my attorney because I needed to get my transcripts because I was, I was, I wanted to get my new transcripts to kind of put them in my memoir, you know, because I got my sentence reduced, and I wanted to be able to pull some excerpts out of the transcripts, even though it had been a few years. So I call her up, and I'm talking, and she's everything going on. What else? I got it. I got you. I'm going to send them to you. Everything else going okay? And I was like, yeah, everything's fine. She goes, okay, anything happening? Anything you want to talk about? And it was almost like she

read my mind. I was like, yeah, yeah, there is. Listen, this guy, and I tell her, and she goes, oh, my God, that sounds like a Rule 35 to me. She just let me call the agent. What's his name? his name is like Tom Griffin or something, Secret Service out of South Carolina. She was, well, let me look it up. And while she was on the phone, she actually looked it up and was like, oh, wow, this guy stole a bunch of money. Oh, yeah, yeah, hold on.

Let me check it out. Like two weeks later, I get, suddenly an officer comes to me and goes, Cox, you got to go to SIS. I'm like, okay, so I go to SIS, walk in, SIS officer, goes, Cox, come in here. I go, what's up? He said, I don't know. I just told to put you up.

on the phone with this guy. Pick of the phone, boom, he goes, hey, I got Cox here right now. Hold on. Hands into him, I go hi. He goes, this is Tom Griffin, Secret Service, you know, special agent with the Secret Service out of South Carolina. It's my understanding that you know where Wilson hid some money. And I'm like, yeah, fuck. I'm like, yeah,

but. Straight to the fucking punch, huh? He's like, what's going on? He said, how much, I said, yeah, but it's not a lot of money. And it's, it's not what you think. It's not millions. I don't care how much it is. I got 900 victims, blah, blah. I was like, okay, well, It's not a lot of money.

I said, but I want something from the government that says they're going to consider money. He goes, well, we're going to get, he goes, well, I'm going to get you. He said, don't worry, I'll make sure you're, you get cooperation for this and we're going to get your sentence reduced for this. I'll make sure you get, basically said something like a Rule 35 for this. I said, bro, you're not in a position to offer that. I said, you and I both know. You already learned your lesson. You don't have authorization.

And I said, I need the U.S. attorney to say that they will consider the recovery of, the recovery of, of a substantial amount of money as substantial assistance and reduced my sentence. Because that's what Frank told me to say. Right. And he said they have to say, they have to agree that money will be considered it. Because I didn't think it was enough money that they would charge these people. So I'm thinking nobody's going to get charged. They're just going to recoup the money.

Because they go and they ask the wife for the money, we know you've got $150,000. She's going to give it to them. And they're not going to charge her. That's the way I felt. I thought, so just the recovery of just the money. money. So he's okay, okay, okay. So I end up, he sends me this letter saying this from the U.S. attorney. U.S. attorney sends it to him. He sends it to me. I get him on my email, and I'm emailing him. Looking over my shoulder all the fucking time. You know, what are you

looking at this? It's a horrible situation, you know? So, so I'm emailing this guy. He sends me a letter and he sends my lawyer a letter from the, and they say recovery of a substantial amount of money we will consider substantial assistance for a sentence reduction. Great. This is my U.S. attorney said this, my new one, my new, my, my, the new U.S. attorney. So, okay, so I, I, he starts asking me questions to ask Wilson. I ask, Wilson this, I ask him that. Wilson's telling me, I'm like, hey, whatever happened with so-and-so, you told me, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, this. Okay, and I go back, I said, well, he said this. That guy's not involved.

And he's trying to get people who's roped in. People roped in. I'm like, there is nobody else. Right. It's Wilson and the other guys that you know about that he's cooperating with you again. Keep mind those two guys, two other guys, they end up like pleading guilty. So they're done. So now they're saying now they don't want to give him anything.

He's very worried. So he's thinking he's not going to get anything anyway. So we're walking and walking. and I'm working with these guys and trying to help them out. But the truth is, all I knew was about a little bit of money. Right. So they go ahead and they interview the wife. The wife comes in and says, I don't have shit.

I don't have nothing. I know what you're talking about. She leaves. Really? The next day she comes back and dumps like $350,000 and says, boom. And cash, gold, silver. I mean, he said $150,000. So you didn't say 150

No I said I told them 150 She turned over like 350,000 Oh shit And I was like and so he comes to me So The Secret Service sends me An email saying listen Wilson's about to get some really bad news

I don't want to be specific But let me know what he says So fucking Wilson comes up to me one day He's like Cox aren't going to talk to you I went yeah what's up And he goes they question my wife She went in a couple days ago And she didn't tell him anything

I said oh that's good see I told you you and he goes, no, no, no, she went back yesterday. And she turned in 300 and some odd thousand dollars in cash and another 50,000 in jewelry and gold. And I go, fuck, I thought you said it was like 120 or 150? And he goes, I didn't, I don't really trust you. I went, okay, well, okay, well, I said, fuck. So what do you think that means for me? I go, he had no suspicion of you.

No. I said, I think you're fucked. I said, you really fucked. That's a fucked up situation because now you've been lying. What did she say? He goes, oh, she said I gave her their money. And I went, fuck. He goes, I just, you know, I don't know what's going to happen now.

He goes, they're supposed to interview my brother in a couple days. The interview for the brother, the brother walks in with his attorney and they say, before he says anything, he'd like to turn over this $150,000. So we're like half a million dollars almost. Was that quite half a million, the total of what them two? Now we're at half a million almost. So he tells me that. A couple days later, he finds that out.

comes and tells me. Fuck. So, months go by. Nothing happens. Eventually, the wife gets indicted, the brother gets indicted,

he gets re-indicted. They scoop him up, and they take him away. That's it. Last you heard of him. Last I heard of him. Well, no, not last I heard of him. Keep in mind, he goes back,

and when they indict him, they give you your discovery. Who do you think is all over his discovery on his new case? Matt Cox. It's nothing about me talking to these guys and emails. Wow. He pleads guilty. Now, initially I was thinking, okay, well, I should get something for this.

I didn't expect any of this. And I got way more money recovered than I thought. Well, guess what? Wilson got six months added on to his sentence. That's it. That's it. His wife and brother got, one got like 100 community hours. and one got like three or six months probation

or maybe a year probation. So nothing. Virtually nothing happens to them. And what about you? And I'm thinking, well, if nothing happened, then fuck. And I go back and I talk to the agent. I call him on the phone and he says, I said, so what's going to happen?

Have you made a recommendation for me to get a reduction? He said, yep, I sent it a couple days ago. I sent it to your U.S. I said, okay, great. And I sent it to your attorney. I said, okay, great. So, oh, no, I sent, he didn't send it to my attorney. He just sent to the U.S. attorney.

He said, I told your attorney about it. I said, okay, great. Call my lawyer. My lawyer calls U.S. attorney. They're not called on our back. This goes on and on for months. Shit. We're talking about almost a year goes by.

And at that point, it was 2016. I go to Frank. Frank goes, did you keep all the emails? I said, I printed out. every fucking email I got everything. And we don't have a copy of what they recommended or what they, the substantial

assistant request. We don't have a copy of that. So I file a Freedom of Information Act to get it. And, but we're not going to get it in time for the one year time bar. I'm saying one year time bar, we were going to argue equitable tolling again. So we've put another 2255 in, put another 2255 in,

government comes back and says he's time barred. Jesus. And on top of that, they say, we don't know what he's talking about. What? They say, this is common. They go, Your Honor, but they said, but now that we've heard about this, we'll look into it. But either way, Your Honor, he's time barred. So now the judge has to rule on whether I'm time barred on.

So then we send in the letter from the U.S. attorney where he says, I'll consider it, blah, blah, blah, the name of the guy, everything. and we send in the arrest, the newspaper articles, and we send it to the judge. So the judge now knows he's lying. But the judge comes back and says, yeah, but I don't feel like I have jurisdiction because I think you are time barred. However, you can appeal it.

And I'm going to waive your certificate. There's a certificate that you have to file for and everything. So I'm waiving all that. You can directly appeal. So fine. We then go ahead and we appeal. So what the government does, Our whole appeal is they didn't file anything for me.

They promised and they didn't. And I did everything I was supposed to do. More so, I need a sentence reduction. So the government comes forward and they file for a one-level reduction, which would have been like 21 months. Right. Like nothing. Right.

So they filed for a one-level reduction. We get it and Frank immediately has some guy type up a thing saying, we don't want the reduction, freeze the reduction. We're asking for an evidentiary hearing. We want to go back and present all evidence in front of the judge. Please don't rule on this one level. We file that. The judge comes back and says,

I'm not going to rule on the, but because they filed that, it gives him jurisdiction. I'm over the time bar. So no more time bar. They fucked up when they filed that. Now it's just a matter of how much am I going to get. Is it going to be 21 months or 23 months, whatever it was, or is it going to be however much?

So anyway, what ends up happening is, they give me another lawyer. The lawyer flies down. She comes. She sits down with me. She says, I read your thing. She said,

and I'd already talked to a couple other lawyers on the street, by the way, by this point too. Told them about what happened last time. They said, yeah, that doesn't matter. You don't have a prayer. She comes down, same thing. Hey, listen.

She is, it's well written. You did a good job. I mean, you're not a lawyer, but you did a good job. But you just don't have an argument here. I said, well, I didn't write that. Frank did. She was Frank.

You're Frank Amadeo. I explained Frank Amadeo, Despar, lawyer, things is going to take over the world, blah, blah, blah. She goes, you had a crazy person, right? You're saying, yeah. She goes, okay, you don't have a prayer.

I said, and yet they've already filed a reduction. They said no before. He filed a paperwork. He got me a reduction. She's, yeah, but you're going to lose at the appellate level. And I said, am I? Because I said, if they really believe that, and that was a guarantee,

I said, why do they give me the reduction? Why did they assign you? and she goes Yeah, I mean, I don't know I just can't imagine this I said look, you do understand They can't let me win If I win it becomes precedent

And everybody will file What will be filing Right It'll get around the time bar And she's like She's sitting there And she says I probably get you two levels Okay, okay well Frank said

That to tell you I want four levels and she goes Frank said I go yeah she is the guy that the emperor of the world I said the emperor

and we used to call him the emperor too by the way I go yeah and by the way at this point I'm actually writing a story so when this is happening I'm writing a story I think I had written his story I was in the middle of writing a story

okay it was the middle of writing a story so I mean keep in mind I've got FBI documents that say he's got these fucking secret service agents working for him he's got he's got a hundred and some odd

companies he's I mean, it's just insane. This kind of stuff you get. I mean, this is the judge talking about how he wants to take over the world. I mean, this is not bullshit. This is, I got the fucking transcripts, the U.S. attorney talking about it. It's insane. I've got the doctors who have interviewed him who are saying, no, no, he's bipolar,

and he's got features of schizophrenia. He really believes he hears voices. And he does. So I said, no, Frank said four levels to tell you four levels. She was, Frank said, the crazy guy. I said, yes, Frank said four levels. She goes, okay, well, I will see what I can do. I said, okay, nice meeting you.

She flies back to Atlanta. Talk to her, whatever, a month or two later. She comes back. She says, look, they'll do two levels. I said, no, Frank said four levels. She said, they're not going to do four levels. I said, you go ahead. I said, you tell them, I said, you tell them we want the evidentiary hearing, and I want,

because now that it's open to an evidentiary hearing, I'm allowed to present evidence. I'm legally allowed to present evidence. Well, I said, I want to present evidence. I want to talk to the two Secret Service agents in Nashville. I want to talk to the four FBI agents on my case in Tampa. I want to talk to the U.S. attorney. I want to subpoena these people. I said, I want all of my discovery in my original case and this case.

I want all the discovery in the Wilson case. She goes, what do you want to do? Turn this into a circus? And I go, that's exactly what I want to do. We're turning it into a circus. I said, I'm going to drive this into the ground. Do you understand? I said, I'm going to make sure they spend as much money and as much of a pain in the ass as possible.

I said, that's what I'm going to do. So I said, that's what you tell them. She goes, oh, my God. So she goes back and we go back and forth, back and forth. They say, no, they say, boom, okay, two years, two levels, blah, blah, blah. Finally, she comes back. She goes, oh, my God, call me. I said, okay, I said, what's up?

She goes, the government agreed to give you three levels. So I told them that to just go ahead and we're going to go ahead and have the evidentiary hearing. So they're going to move you back. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'll take the three levels. She goes, what, what do you mean? You said four levels. You said you wouldn't take anything less than four levels. I said, no, no, no.

I said, Frank said to tell you four levels. We were always good with three levels. Right. I just wanted you to argue for four. That way I knew I'd end up with three. Right, exactly. I'm happy with three. So do not move me.

I do not want an evidentiary hearing. I do not want to go back to court. Keep me here and just file the paperwork. So they file the paperwork and boom, they give me three levels, which ends up being five years off my sentence. Wow. So now I've got seven and five. That's 12 years off my sentence plus the gain time.

My sentence essentially is like cut in half. With the gain time, it's literally a, I'm just, should have done 23 years. You know, I got 12 years knocked off. I end up doing 12 and a half years because I got some halfway house. So, and I'm still writing stories. Wow. So they immediately try, by the way.

Now I've only got like a year and a half left, maybe two years, maybe a year and a half left. So they want, probably about two years left. They try and move me to a camp. Well, my mom comes to see me every two weeks. She lives in Tampa. The closest camp is like Miami or, Pensacola. She can't come to every two weeks to see me in Pensacola. You know, she's, she's almost 90. At that point, she's like 88 years old. She's, she's, so I can't get moved.

So I immediately get myself placed into the drug program. I say, I got a drug problem. It's an issue. I need to go to the drug program. C. Pete? No, no, in Coleman. Oh, oh, okay. So I go to the drug program in Coleman, and that way they put a hold on you so they can't move you from the institution. So I get moved in the drug program. I have to pretend to be a drug addict for about four months and take all these classes. It's a nine-month course. Then they put what's called a management variable on you

and they keep you in the prison. So as soon as they put that on me, I drop out of the drug program. About three months go by and they come back and they go, hey, we're going to take that off you and ship you to a camp. I said, I thought it was good for a year. They go, typically it is, but we really need to move you to a camp. And I said, no, I can't. I got to go back to the drug program.

Why? I said, I really have an issue. I really have a problem. I just realized it coming back here. They go, okay, Cox. So I go back to Joe first. It is ridiculous. And so that's to keep me there.

So I end up staying there and then I go to the halfway house. I get to the halfway house. And so when I get to the halfway house, I'm immediately in the middle of this lawsuit. I end up publishing a book. Which lawsuit? The Warner Brothers. The Warner Brothers, the Devereux. The Deverely, Ward dogs.

lawsuit. I end up talking to this crazy lawyer. Eventually, I called like 20 or 30 lawyers. None of them wanted to take the case because they all want money. Because it's an intellectual property theft is a, it's a long dragged out process. They don't take it on contingency. I finally get a lawyer. They'll take it on contingency.

So it was, it was a, so I was in the halfway house. While I'm in the halfway house, my buddy Trian who owns a gym, Colta's 24-7 fitness, he owns a gym. He hires me while I'm in the halfway house. So I'm working for him. While I'm working for him, one day I get in his car. And he's like, and he goes, he said, because I'm in real estate, you know, I was in real estate. He goes, you got to listen.

Have you listened to this concrete podcast? And he starts telling me about, and he's listening to the podcast. Really? Yeah, in the Jeep. He's got like a Jeep. It's all jacked up. like 80 grand or something. And so I get in the thing, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So then I start watching it and whatever. And he used to live in like Pebble Beach or Indian Rocks, whatever. Indian Rocks. Indian Rocks. He used to live there. I guess he had seen Ben one time. Yeah, because we did a lot of real. That was the biggest thing on this channel was real estate series.

So he ended up watching it at that point. And then he said he was telling me about it. And he goes, you ought to contact this guy, Danny. And I go, why? I said, he's not, he's, I said for real estate? And he goes, yeah. And I go, Tram, he's not going to talk to me about real estate. I just fucking did 12 and a half years for real estate for mortgage fraud.

They don't want to talk about that. That's a horrible idea. And he goes, yeah, but he said, well, what about the stories, the true crime stories? You could probably do some stuff with true crime or something. And I went, well, I want to try and do something. I'll call them. So that's when I called you and said, hey, listen, I don't know. Because I really didn't even if the email was kind of like, you sent me an email.

It was a very, it was a very, it was a very precise. waste of email. That was a very good email. I'm really sure what I really want, but I wanted to talk to you. I'm not sure. So, yeah, so. Yeah, you sent me an email. I called you and here we are. Yeah. Almost six months later, maybe around that.

I don't know how long it was. It's probably six months. About six months ago. It was probably two or three months into, I got there in January. Yeah. Probably a couple months in. Yep. So, so. Yeah. I remember you're telling me that you would get out of the halfway house in July.

And that was like two months away. So, okay. Yeah. So now I've got, about to put it out another book, which we're supposed to, you know, I've got the one book out, devil expose. Yep. I just got that in the mail. I actually ordered it on Amazon.

And I can't fucking highlight it and press speak, unfortunately. But I'm going to have to read this one. Yeah. I just got it yesterday in the mail. Yeah, you got to read that one. I'm reading it for sure. So, yeah. That's going to be the next podcast.

Yeah, we got to do that. I'm telling you, it's amazing. It's really, it's a, plus, you know, you'll get a ton of these right wing. You'll get left and right. What's the synopsis? What's the quick elevator pitch for devil exposed? It's, there's a guy in prison named Walter Rossini that was an admitted drug trafficker, and he made methamphetamine and ice, which, you know, ice is just a pure form of methamphetamine. He was a young kid, 22, 23 years old.

I mean, they're making a ton of it. This is like 20 years ago in L.A. So in Hollywood, in L.A., he's like partying with like Aerosmith. And, you know, these, those are the guys they're hanging out with and they're making ice and they're, and tons of money. Anyway, he ends up, there's a, ends up, the short version is he ends up, there's a couple dirty agents. One of them's an informant who pretends.

tends to be an FBI agent. So a couple of dirty FBI agents that they're paying off for information. And eventually what happens is like I'm literally like like guys are getting arrested, they're getting them out of it. Guys are getting indicted. They're getting them out of it. I mean, he gets arrested. They come in and they make a phone call, the cops let him out. I mean, it's that blatant. He's paying these guys. It's like a couple million dollars. They end up paying these guys. There's a sealed indictment. They want to know everybody that's on He tells him, boom, next day, here's who's on it. Wow.

I mean, you know, you've got the end. Guys are getting caught with nine pounds of ice. They get the whole thing quashed and cut loose. What happens is eventually it's convoluted, but basically the short version, a streamlined version, is two informants end up getting murdered. And the two guys that commit the murders, initially when they get grabbed,

they say that Rucini Rousini is the one that murdered him then there's like four guys four or five guys end up getting grabbed and all four of them were saying Rucini said Rucini murdered him well then they start failing polygraph

exams and then they end up saying okay okay I did kill him I killed him but Rucini helped move the body and Rucini is the one that told us to do it Yeah so Rucini's saying that's not what happened well later it comes out that after the murders

the FBI informant comes in and tells them if anything happens you guys get caught see the FBI is the one that suggested that this guy, one of the guys needs to be killed because he's an informant and he's going to cooperate and he's going to cooperate against

the two dirty, the FBI agent. Oh shit. Right. So if we get in trouble, you guys are all getting life sentences. So something's got to happen. Somebody needs to take care of him. So he ends up getting one of the guys end up getting whacked because of that. Now, the government says they got whacked.

They got killed because they were both informants. It's actually not true. But they both end up getting killed. It's because the FBI and the FBI informant that told them to do it. Then when they get caught, they all say, they can't say the FBI is the one that did it. They say Rucini did it. Then when they say, okay, they failed a polygraph exams. Okay, he didn't kill him.

I did kill him. But he told me to kill him. They're looking for somebody to blame. They can't say the FBI ordered it. Right. So what ends up happening is, is there's actually proof of a meeting where the FBI informant gets like seven or eight guys together, the same guys that all say Rucini did it, gets them all together and tells them that they all have to blame Rucini. Say he did it. Don't say we did it.

There's actually proof that there was this meeting. Nobody disagrees that there was a meeting. Okay. So they end up, Rucini ends up getting indicted. He ends up, he's supposed to get the death penalty. And what happens is the U.S. attorney at the time comes in and says, listen, I'm going to let you plead out to 40 years and you can cooperate against these other guys. Well, the U.S. attorney was Robert Mueller.

Robert Mueller is the guy that's investigating the President of the United States, right? Right. Well, it wasn't. Okay. This was when he was U.S. attorney in San Francisco. So he says, I'm going to let you cooperate against these two dirty FBI. agents and I'm going to let you cooperate against the other guys. So we're going to give you 40 years and you can get your sentence reduced.

And remember I said there's only one time I've ever seen an ironclad, an actual agreement where they agree 100% to cut the guy's sentence? Yeah, in the beginning of the podcast. Robert Mueller is the one that gave that document to Walter Rossini. No fucking way. It's a matter of fact, I've got it on the website. Not my website. I've got it on a devil exposed.

It's called devil exposed exhibits. It's on the website, the actual document from Robert Mueller. So he gives it to him. He goes to Leavenworth, meets with him like three times in a row. Two days in a row? Three days in a row, three days in a row, or three days total, I think. Two or three days. So he meets with him, writes all these notes up and everything.

He and another FBI agent. Then gives Rossini, he's got the 40 years. During the course of this, Maller realizes Rucini didn't do it. That Rucini didn't order. the documents. It's the dirty FBI agents. He writes down dirty FBI. I mean the FBI agent, right, dirty FBI agents, payoffs, 200,000, 100,000 here, 50,000 here, 1.5 million dollars here. Starts writing it's all written down on their notes, right? Yeah. So what ends up happening is he says, I'm going to bring you back to in front of a grand jury. I'm going to, we're going to do

this, we're going to do that. Well, what happens is he ends up becoming, getting appointed to the FBI director, as an FBI director, right? He was a U.S. attorney then. Bush wins the election. makes him an FBI director. He goes in front of Congress. He's now Robert Mueller becomes the FBI director. Okay. The U.S. attorney that takes over the thing says he's not going to honor the agreement. He's not going to reduce his sentence. He doesn't matter of fact, there is no agreement. So Rassini comes up with the paperwork, says, what about this? This is the agreement. And the judge goes, yeah, he's got an agreement. It's Iron Cloud. You've got to reduce his sentence. Right. Got to reduce his sentence. So they go, they have a thing. They have a, they have a, they have a, they have a, they have a, they have a, court whatever proceeding. Yeah. And they bring them back and they reduce his sentence and they reduce it by barely nothing, a couple of years.

Then, and they completely say they bullshit this isn't what happened. He's lying. He's this. He has no proof. He has no this. There were no dirty FBI agents. It's all a lie. It's not true.

He barely gets any time knocked off. So finally he gets Mueller. He gets, Mueller drags for like 10 years. He drags. He can't. go to court because 9-11 happened. You know, then there's a D.C. sniper. Then there's an anthrax.

You know, he's always come out with these reasons why he can't be deposed. He can't show up at court. So it just drags on and on. Eventually, he has to go back in front of court. When he goes in front of the court, he says, Moller gets up and Rucini and his lawyer think that Mueller was going to say, yes, they were dirty agents. Yes, we talked about it. Yes, yes, yes.

Moller gets on the stand and says, no. I don't recall any dirty agents. I don't remember any of that. Did he deny ordering the murders? No, as a matter of fact, he implicated himself. He admitted that he took part of it. Wow. Holy shit, I got the fucking transcripts and everything.

Well, what happens is, in the meantime, he says all this, gets off the stand. In the meantime, no, no, sorry, he says all this. By this point, Pete Rusini's lawyer has found the notes. He gets a hold of the real FBI notes. and goes to Mueller and starts saying, are you saying that you never heard about dirty agents?

And he starts saying on note, 004, right here it says dirty FBI agents. Right. And he's like, I don't recall. I'm not sure why it says that. What about here? Here it says that he denied ordering the murder. I do not. It doesn't say he admit.

It says he did not. They start really hammering him. the last part of the transcripts is nothing, but at this present time, I do not recall precisely what I was thinking at the time. I'm unsure. I mean, he's just complete bullshit. Anyway, it's so bad that the U.S. attorney at the time ends up. So they sentence, re-sentence Rucini again.

They knock three, four years off again. Let's not give it too much away. Okay. We're just teasing them right now. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Anyway, it goes on and on. it's pretty egregious

and it's not like it's politically motivated because I'm not like a conservative or liberal or anything I don't care it's just that there's this guy in prison and I've got all this documentation and it's proof that it's just insane it's insane and when you see the document

you have to understand the bulk of the documents are sealed and this guy's in prison so what can he do it's a great story and it's like I think I told you this before it's not like I have like I feel like Mueller's a scumbag

or anything I feel like he covered up something because he's politically motivated other than that this guy volunteered for for Vietnam I mean he's a patriot

he was the longest running FBI agent or FBI director I mean it's just this one thing yeah you know and it's just a fucked up situation damn so that's brutal

dude thank you so much that was incredible all right that was incredible so are we We are going to do one. So wait, let me make it clear. If you're still watching this shit, which I guess it doesn't matter now, but if you

haven't watched the first one, you have to watch the first podcast we did. About how I got into this podcast. You have to. It's mandatory. There's no way you can watch. You could have watched this without watching the first one. If you haven't watched the first one, you have to go watch that now. And, dude, it's just, it's mind-blowing.

Just thank you for sharing these stories with us and with the listeners. and letting me be the platform for it. Mueller, the Mueller story, Devil Exposed next. That book's already out, right? People can already purchase that.

Yeah, yeah, you can buy that book. Okay. It's on Amazon. Devil Exposed. And I've got all the exhibits on a website. Okay. It's like fucking,

how many hundreds and hundreds of pages of exhibits? What's that website again? It's a devil exposed exhibits.com. Okay. And the website where all your stories are at, which is inside true crime? Inside true crime is mine. I'm going to put both those links below.

So people who want to find those, you can just click them below. And fucking awesome, dude. Can't wait for the next one.