Danny Jones Podcast - #246 - Best Evidence for Ancient Machines in Egypt (5,000 Years Old) | Matt Beall

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

Watch all episodes uncensored & ad-free on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Matt Beall collects ancient Egyptian artifacts, hosts the @mattbealllimitless podcast, and is CEO of Bealls Inc. SPONSORS https://buy.ver.so/danny - Use code DANNY to save 15% on your first order. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Matt's podcast: @mattbealllimitless https://twitter.com/MattbLimitless FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00:00 - World's largest Egyptian vase collection 00:08:54 - Museums won't research vases 00:13:46 - Evidence of missing Egyptian tools 00:23:02 - Recreating precise Egyptian vases 00:27:19 - Function of precise vases 00:33:48 - Digital scans of vases 00:38:12 - Sacred geometry 00:51:06 - How many ancient vases still exist? 00:52:28 - Israeli defense minister who stole artifacts 00:59:28 - Mysteries of vase handles 01:06:21 - Antikythera mechanism 01:12:22 - Vases measured in royal fingers 01:24:31 - Beall's department stores 01:34:04 - Matt Beall Limitless 01:35:49 - Congressman Tim Burchett 01:38:08 - Knights Templar 01:44:32 - Future of Egyptian vase analysis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, Matt Bell. How much money worth of ancient Egyptian artifacts is sitting on this podcast table right now? Starting with an easy question. I have no idea. I mean, it's worth whatever you'd be willing to sell it for, right? So, you know, I don't know. They've definitely increased in value since I started buying them. I'll put it that way.

So, I mean, I started back in January, 2023 and kind of went through like a crazy person, through, you know, like crazy buying spree all through 2023 and then kind of settled. down. But in that time, the prices went way up. You know, I mean, they're triple. They're sometimes quadruple what they would have been a year and a half ago now. So, right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, you know, it's, uh, some of them like, I wouldn't sell, you know, like some of them like this guy right here, you know, um, you know, this one with the gold handles. Like, you just, there's not a, there's not a price that you could even, you know, say. I know, the value is a big question for people, but it's just, you know, it's kind of like anything like what would,

what would some, what would somebody pay for it, you know? For people that are, you know, watching this podcast or listening, especially people who are listening right now, this is going to be a very visual podcast. We have, what, like 30 ancient Egyptian vases sitting on this table right now that Matt has purchased on the antiquities market. And we're going to be going through all this stuff and showing this. We got close up shots. Steve's got the cameras all dialed in, getting the glamour shots of these vases. What is the process of buying one of these things? Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, it's different.

There's a couple of different ways. I started when Ben Van Kirkwick released his first, like, a couple of videos on it. You know, I was totally hooked when Uncharted X came out with like their take on these things. I was like, you know, this is, it seemed like the best evidence for something really cool happening out there in the world right now. And there's not a lot that's really cool happening. So and how else can you like, you know, get a piece of, get a piece of that, you know, in other ways other than this? So that's kind of where I got hooked onto it. Where I got started was from watching Ben and then I had him come on to my podcast, you know, last year. And we talked about these things. He would have never come and talk to me, I'm sure, if it wasn't for the bases. But we formed a great friendship. He's a great dude.

I'm sure I'll give a handful of shoutouts to Ben during this thing. But, yeah, I mean, you can do it through auction houses, you know, or websites, basically. So, you know, if you go on to like on your phone, phone. You can download an app, liveauctioneers.com, and that's a good one. Like, that's, like, they have a, they got a bunch on there. Christy's Sotheby's, Bannums, Placchus, you know, there's a lot of auction houses that sell these things. These tiny ones are, when you showed me this last night, I was, my mind was melting. Yeah. Because not only are these things like hard granite, the most hard stone that exists on the earth, but these things are precise and they're like smaller than a

shot glass. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And they get smaller than that too. I mean, yeah, there's some there's some crazy. I don't know. Yeah. How they did it, it's a huge mystery. But yeah, all different shapes and why did they do it? Why do they make them so small? Right, right. Yeah. And they're really, you know, you get some really precise ones at that size too, you know? So it's, that's the difference. But I mean, there's like this, this classification that's super precise, like crazy precise. And then there's a classification that looks like, you know, it's just done with, it's incredible work, but just done with less, whatever you might call it. Yeah. It's incredible tools.

You wouldn't think about something as like a vase being such a mysterious relic when you compare it to the Great Pyramid because it's just as crazy of a feat of a human being to produce something like this as the Great Pyramids. because it's so precise and it's made out of these stones out of these hard grain of stones. Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, I mean, when you look at the pyramids, you look at the serapium, you know, those huge boxes that are down there. Like, you look at the vases. We don't have the tools for any of that stuff. Like, we don't know how that stuff was built. You know, we don't know how they built the pyramids.

I mean, there's a couple of theories with like ramps and sand and, you know, like pullies and ropes. And, you know, there's some theories for this stuff. There's some, but we don't have the tools from the pre-dynastic time. to really know how these were built. So, yeah, it's a huge mystery, man. There's not that many mysteries left. So this is a cool one. It's really cool.

How many of these vases have you guys actually measured in one of those laser scanners? Or those, what are they, like, CT scans? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's two different ways that you can do it. So there's a structured light scan, which is like, you know, you put it on to a, you put it on to like, you know, a flat surface.

You spin it around. You've got like something shining a laser added, a light at it and it picks up the dimensions basically by turning it. And so you get like a full picture of it and it creates a mesh file. That's a little bit less precise than the CT scanner. So CT scanner is the way to go for sure if you're going to be measuring these things and attempt to like figure out the exact dimensions. And there's a great company that I've been using called EMS and they've got a CT scanner.

I ship them up to Michigan and they scan them there and then ship them back. It's like a, you know, they do it in a day, they ship it back. But they've got an incredible CT scanner. And the benefit of the CT scanner is you get the inside walls. So, yeah. So you get like you get all of the, you get the full thing. With the structured light scan on the, you're just getting the outside. But yeah, the CT scanner, and it's at a higher resolution.

So you can really, you know, get down to like a thousandth of a millimeter on the measurements to know exactly how precise they are. It's pretty crazy. A thousandth of a. millimeter. Yeah, yeah, it's insane. Which one of these vases is the most precise? You know, I mean, there's different measurements on all of them. So there's only a few ways to measure each of these. So take this one for example. So this is one of them, for sure. You can measure the top outside of the lip, right? So from here to here, you can measure the roundness of it. But that's one measurement. The inside of the mouth is another measurement. The width, so like from here to here, here to here,

the x-axis the y-axis um so there's only like six measurements on each of these five if it has a round bottom six if it doesn't um and so this one is one of those that on some of the uh some of the measurements it's showing like insanely precise numbers and so this is one that i brought up to danville and was with uh you know chris don and auguston and ben and all those guys and we're measuring this one um so so this one's got some insane measurements to it this one this thing this thing thin wall face here that we don't want to drop. This is the most fragile. This is the most fragile, yeah, yeah, by far.

And there's not another one. This is one of the coolest ones just because I've never seen another one like this anywhere like. I mean, there's one in a museum that you can find pictures of online that has actually part of the side broken out of it. And so you can see that it's about two millimeters thick. This thing on a band that goes across the middle of this thing, do we have a flashlight? Somewhere. Oh, right there.

So this thing is two millimeters. Steve, where's the best place to hold it? Like right here, this area? Is that good? Yeah, that'll work. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty... That's wild. Pretty bright in here, but you can still see the light coming through this... Let's turn the lights off.

This band. Let's make it spooky in here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. Look at that. Dude. Holy cow. Isn't that insane?

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I mean, and so what they did is they thinned out this part around the middle. They made the part around the middle about two millimeters thick. The rest of it is basically four millimeters thick on the bottom and on the top. And then they, on the very bottom of it, they make it thicker so that it's, you know, it's like stable and sturdy and it's not going to break. So what is this material? That's granite.

That's red granite. This is red granite. Yeah, or rose granite, whatever you want to call. It has won granite. Where does this land on the Mo's scale of hardness? I mean, granite, for the most part, is going to be between a six and a seven. So sometimes seven and a half, it can, you know, but it's in that range. It's one of the harder stones on earth.

I mean, when you talk about granite, granite, granite, balsalt. There's a lot of basalt here. Those are going to be the hardest stones that these are made out of. You bought all these, right? And you decided to pay with your own money to get these scans done. Correct.

To get these things measured. Did you get any sort of help from any of these Egyptian museums or like the Petrie Museum or anybody like that? No, no. I mean, so in terms of what? I haven't worked with them.

Is terms of like trying to analyze these bases and figure out what's going on? I haven't tried yet. I haven't tried to work with the museum. So I'm kind of just doing my own thing with this on with my private collection and I'm trying to like study them and scan them and just you know I don't honestly with work and with life and everything else like I don't have the capacity to like reach out to museums and try to do all that. I know that by talking to people by talking to people like Ralph Ellis a bunch of people have tried to reach out to museums and get things scanned. The answer has been no from the museums that have been reached out to. And I know, like Ralph has told me he's reached out to like 10 different people.

Adam Young, who's going to be presenting at the Cosmic Summit, has tried to reach out to people. And supposedly he's making some progress. Supposedly he's, you know, he's hopefully going to be able to do that. He hasn't really, you know, let me know one way or the other. But the issue is you have to take them out of the museums and then you have to ship them away to a CT scanner somewhere at some other location. And a lot of museums just don't want to do that. So so far, museums have not wanted to play ball. But ultimately, that's the goal, right?

I mean, we have to have things that have been with perfect archaeological context that have been taken out of a tomb. And we know that we can date that tomb to a specific period of time and then that that thing's been pulled out so that there's no chance that it, was, you know, some modern forgery or whatever. So that's what, and that's the biggest pushback from the, the, um, the detractors or the debunkers or whatever you want to call the group of people that, that hate the fact that we're doing this research and that we're trying to see if there's anything here, um, that they, that they're saying, you know, well, there's no, there's no, uh, it could be a fake. It could be a modern fake, you know, so, um, I think, who are the people that are saying

that these things could be modern fakes? I mean, it's a possible. You know, but I mean, I think that a lot of people within the, when they see the measurements, it's really the ones that are that are super precise. And it's people within the archaeological community or the, you know, or Egyptologists or historians, people who think that they have, that we have the exact right story of the history of mankind and that there's no tools that we don't know about outside of the archaeological record, you know, and that everything that we know is is perfectly true. and complete facts right now. Those people are the ones that have a difficult time with the artifacts that are very precise because there's no tools that can create, you know, this artifact in the archaeological record.

I mean, you've got, I think, well, we can check the scan report, but I think on this one, when you look at the lip on the X and Y axis, you've got like a thousandth of a millimeter. I mean, it's stupid. A thousandth of a millimeter? Of a millimeter, yeah, yeah.

It's like 150th of, of the width of a human hair. It's totally microscopic. That's the distance on the X-axis and the Y axis. The variation in between. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this from here to here is one distance.

From here to here is another distance, and it's like a thousandth of a millimeter off. So it's perfectly round is what that tells you to within microscopic tolerances. And supposedly, these were made with chisels. You know, that these were like rounded off with chisels. There's not turning devices from, there's not a lathe, you know, from this, from pre-Dynastic Egypt. What, where these come from?

If you asked, um, mainstream Egyptologists when this would have been made, what would they say? Um, they would probably, I mean, for the museum pieces or for this piece specifically right here. For any of these pieces. Yeah. I mean, they would say, you know, that if it's, uh, that if it's a real artifact, that if it's, uh, then they'll probably go along with the, uh, the dates on the certificate of authenticity. and, you know, so they'll tell you it was from between 4,000 BC and 2650 BC, you know, in that time period. Okay. If they think that it's just too precise that it has to be a modern reproduction made on some kind of a machine, then they're going to tell you it's a modern, you know, that it's fake. And from 2,500 BC to 5,000, 5,000 BC?

Yeah, I mean, pretty much 45, yeah, 5,000. You're going to find, you're going to find some really crude 5,000 BC stone. artifacts, but 4,500 to 3,100 BC, kind of that pre-dynastic time period is where a lot of these come from. And from that time period, what are the tools that we have evidence for? Yeah, I mean, it's garbage. It's like, you know, you're talking about like, and this is the part where I don't want to, like, I think very highly of our ancestors, right? And this is the part where the detractors are always like, you know, they just thinks our ancestors are idiots, you know, but they didn't have tools that were capable of doing this.

So when you look at the tools in the archaeological record, I mean, you're talking about like flint chisels. You're talking about copper chisels. You're talking about, you know, just... Pounding stones. Pounding stones, exactly. Sticks, you know, sticks with where you attach a rock to the bottom of the stick and you stick it inside of this thing

and you twist it around. Right. And that's how, supposedly, you get wall thickness that's perfectly, you know, perfectly, the exact same thickness on this side of the artifact is on this side of the artifact. I mean, to, you know, to a hundredth of a millimeter. Right. I mean, and you can't do that by just, like, turning a stick in here. Right. But that's the tools that exist in the archaeological record from this time period.

It's a time period that we know almost nothing about. So, you know, and it's the hardest stones on earth. and it's the hardest material on earth to work with. And so it's like you talk about the pyramids. It's like the oldest stuff always seems to be the best. It always seems to be the most precise. You know, and it's like you go back and you look at ancient Egypt and the structures that were built and the pyramids that were built.

The oldest stuff is always the best. It's similar with these objects. And it's like, you know, to not have, it's just a huge question mark, to not have any tools that are capable of producing something like this. And yet here they are. Here's the artifacts. And, you know, going back to pre-Dynastic times, Egypt wasn't even united. You know, it was upper Egypt and lower Egypt were two completely separate areas until Scorpion King came along in whatever, 3,200, 3,100 BC, killed the king and united upper and lower Egypt.

And then they had this, like, this glory, this is the story, you know, from the establishment that they had this, like, incredible several hundred years. several couple of thousand year run of, you know, pyramid building and, and creating all these incredible ancient structures. So at this time period, in the pre-dynastic time period, it was literally, I mean, you're talking like just, you know, very primitive, very primitive people, very primitive tools. That's a story that we're given. So if we wanted to, could we recreate a granite vase that's as precise as that one today? I think so.

I think so. Yeah, I do think so. How would we do it? With a five-axis mill, you know, with like a very sophisticated lathe, and you would probably design it on a computer, you know? You would just, you know, could it be done by hand? I'm going to say no. You know, I'm going to say that we couldn't today do create one of the precision artifacts by hand.

But we would need very expensive machines and computer programs. stuff to create that. It's not like a hobbyist couldn't do this. Correct. Yeah, a couple hundred thousand dollars. You know, you're talking about machines that cost that much. And there's, there's probably companies that you could, you know, hire to do this. I haven't seen any, and this is part of the issue. Like, if people can do it and people can make these, and it's so cheap and so easy, because I've seen some debunking videos that's like, you know, yeah, there's a company in China that can just go make one of these for like $50. Well, nobody's doing that. Like nobody's, you don't see that. Is there, yeah, is there any videos?

are people making these. Right. No. And there's no evidence that they exist, you know. So and, and, and, and, and, and when you look at the market and you're studying the market like I did in 2023, uh, you look at the inventory that's there and available online. There's, it's not like there's like a plethora of new artifacts coming online at all times. Like right now, if you go out and you try to buy some of these, you're not going to find any. Like, there's none available right now. And if it was that easy to produce these and to make them and to make them, you know, fake and cheap and, and, and, you know, and. easy and the dealers were like all you know uh you like criminals then you would see these all over the place like you would be able to buy them from anybody anywhere you know because because they could you know they could make a tremendous markup but we don't see that and we don't see duplicates that's the other thing you know we don't see like the same artifact produced twice ever you know you don't you don't that's that's not a that's not a thing so it's not as if all of these are so different. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And like this one, they don't have flat bottoms. They spin. Right. Right. So if you're making a vase, right? You think nowadays, if you make a vase, it's like to hold something in it, right? Yeah. Flowers or a decorative piece that's just on a table. Right. But if this is a decorative piece that's meant to sit on a table, why wouldn't you make a flat bottom? Why do these all have these rounded, curved bottoms to them? Right. They don't, like they wobble, right? Like that one right there. Or this one right here. Yeah.

All these spin, yeah. I mean, obviously all the round bottom spin, but like even, you know, like this one, like does not look like it should be able to spin, right? Right. But they all, I mean, most of them, most of them do. They intentionally rounded the bottom. God, it stinks heavy.

Yeah, that's a big piece of granite. Yeah. And it's like, it's like, why would you intentionally round the corners off of the bottom to, like, maximize, you know, I mean, why would you want it to be wobbly and to be able to tip over? Now, I mean, I think if you ask like a historian or someone or, you know, one of the debunker channels, they're going to be like, well, it's, they, they kept them in sand. You know, they kept them, they wanted to be. Sand.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Oh, they said that. Okay. I see where you're saying. Yeah. Like in their houses or whatever. But even that big one, you know, that massive granite one over there, that's going to.

Yeah, that's going to spin. That's got a round bottom. Yeah, it's heavy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, my table's kind of messed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, it's crazy.

Like, you see it on. Look at that. Yeah, right. Yeah, if you put these on like a flat granite table. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I bet. All day, all day. Like, look at, check out this guy, this brushy guy.

And like, so if you're making modern reproductions, these are the kinds of things that, like, people today, like, if you're making these, they wouldn't know that, you know? Like, people wouldn't, I don't know. There's just too many. There's a lot of reasons to think that these are. And when you look at them, I mean, these things have got some age to them, man. Oh, my God, yeah. Right? I mean, it's different when you, like, we're holding a thousand-year-old relics

made by people that existed fucking thousands of years ago. Right. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's one of the coolest things. They're like, yeah. They're like little time machines, man. Yeah, totally. And they all have a different story.

You know, and that's the thing. like you, I mean, there's a possibility. I think there's three possibilities for each and every one of these that exists in the world, right? And the possibilities of when they were made. And you could say, you know, just starting in the present day and going back in time, you could say, okay, they were either made in modern times as a forgery, as a fake, or they were made by the ancient Egyptians, or they were made by some precursor civilization, like some lost civilization. There's actually, I mean, there's some good arguments for that. Like, there's some really good, like, I mean, Ben Van Kirkwick does a great job, you know, kind of pushing that, like, you know, putting that idea forward. You don't see them after the, after like 20, 200 BC, pretty much. Like, you don't see any of these heartstone vases. After 2200. Yeah, like the intermediate period, like after the, right. Yeah, you don't, you don't see, like, that's kind of when Egypt.

fell into like this despair. It was like a tough time for them. And then they came out like 100 years later. But you don't see any after that. And there's a question as to whether or not you see any of them after 2650 BC, which is when Dozier or Josure, nobody really knows how to pronounce it. But the step pyramid guy, the guy that buried himself underneath the step pyramid with like 40,000 of these things.

There's a question as to whether or not we really, if they make any of them, after that point in time. You know? Well, yeah, like the civilization that was there during that time, it's, they were doing very crude stuff. Like, they were creating those hieroglyphs on the side of those boxes. Yeah. And they were making other vases that were very crude, right?

Very rough out of different, like very softer stone. Right. That were nowhere near comparable to these, but it looks like they could have been maybe trying to copy them or duplicate them or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude, it's insane. It's a huge question.

Isn't there a video on YouTube of, I think it was on your Twitter, of a guy who tried to recreate one of these things by hand? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's that one called? I think it's scientists against myth. Scientists against myths, probably. Yeah, okay. Which, you know, their bias already to begin with. Right.

I mean, they're calling this a myth. You know, anything that's outside of the established story is a myth for these guys. And what happened in their video? They spent two and a half. This is it, yeah. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, they spent over. two years, two years and two months, I think it was, creating an artifact. So they made a couple

out of soft material. That's one of the soft materials. I think that's Brescia. And they, and so that's, again, one that's very easy to work with. That tool, by the way, there's no record of it. I mean, they're just assuming that the ancient Egyptians were using like a stick with a copper tip on it and sand abrasives and water to hollow out to core the inside of it to create the core. Oh, okay. Yeah, we don't have that. That tool doesn't exist within the record.

They're just assuming that it exists from my understanding. And again, I'm not like Egyptologist guy. I just kind of do this for fun, just a hobby. But, but yeah, they made a couple of ones that were just really, I mean, look, I got to give them credit for trying, right? But, but, I mean, what they made was. So they're starting with this giant chunk of granite. This, yeah, it wasn't even, they made, I think they made three.

And their first two were not granite. Their first two were soft stones. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And then they came back. It was like Brescia and I think marble. And marble people don't realize it's very soft.

It's like the same as like alabaster at Brussia. It's a three on the Moscow. It's like easy, easy to work with. So statue of David, you know, super easy to chisel that away. But the, but then they came back because everybody was complaining that they, you know, they're using these soft stones. So they came back and they made one out of diarite. Oh, really? So, yeah, diorite's like granite.

It's like granite, you know, it's a similar, similar density. And it took them, or hardness, and it took them over two years to create a... And this is the one? I think. That doesn't look like diarite, though, does it? I don't know if that's the one or not, to be honest with you. But, I mean, all these stones kind of blend together. They can all look.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, that's the one. Not precise at all after two years. And so, you know, they had a lot of problems with it. It broke once. They had to redo it. It's, and it's not precise.

Right. Yeah. Certainly not within one one thousandth of an inch. Right, right. I think they're talking about closer to like a millimeter maybe of deviation on roundness. And they're, you know, they're turning it. So it should be round. But, yeah, see.

I mean, it's not even close. I mean, these are like a hundred times. I mean, look at this, dude. Yeah. Yeah. How do you do that? Right, right. Using a pounding stone.

The biggest thing, the biggest thing with this thing that they made is that they cord out the middle, right? They drilled out the middle, but they didn't ever go in and bore the, and hollowed the walls. Oh. Yeah. So they just did like one straight tube drill down? Exactly. Exactly. And after two years, they couldn't like go in and hollow out the walls.

That's pretty decent. I mean, they dressed it. That was like they wrote on it with pen. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not really what it looks like. They were also using the wheel, which Egyptologists say Egyptians never had. They didn't have the wheel. Yeah, right.

So these, I mean, the theory is that with these, that it was like chisels and pounding stones that shaped the roundness. And so, like, right. So when these guys are twisting this thing and turning it, that's not the explanation for how these were made. It's literally like chisels and pounding stones to form this perfect roundness of, you know, up to a thousandth of a, of a millimeter at times. You know, I mean, that's the extreme. But, you know, a thousandth of an inch is very common. You know, a couple thousandths of an inch, very, very common.

And you just, you don't get that with chisels. No. No. I can't imagine. Yeah. I mean, I've never tried, but I can't imagine it would be possible. Yeah. I mean, especially when you're talking about these.

I mean, this one, dude. Yeah. Yeah, that one's weird. What is your wildest guess to what these were used for? Oh, man. Just pure speculation. Just pure tinfoil hat. I don't know, man. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I really have no idea. I wish I could even...

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Like, I don't, you know, no idea. Pure speculation. Really, really nobody has any idea. But this one. People say that, some people say that there are urns, right? Yeah, but there's never been, like, to my understanding, there's never been, like, body parts or, like, even human remains. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, like, ashes or anything found in these things. Like, that's another one of the thing. When you find them in barrels, when you find them in tombs, there's not, like, There's not like body parts. Now, I think like the, like the, the mainstream explanation is it's like, like, like, like liquids and, you know, like perfumes and like just different kinds of. And if you've seen the lids on these things, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty silly. But what do they look like? You have an image of them on there? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're, yeah, let me see if I can find it.

I mean, so if you can make the, if you can make the artifact itself, why can't you make a lid to match it, you know? Right. So the mainstream explanation is that the lids were used. It's like a clay lid, basically, that you use it as like a stopper. And the explanation is because it's like, you know, it'll expand and contract and it'll be able to, I'm going to have a hard time finding this. It's interesting because it's. It's like the insides aren't as perfect as the outsides, right?

Like the opposite of the Serapian boxes where the insides are perfect. Yeah, yeah. And the outsides are kind of rough and not perfectly square. I mean, it's still pretty damn close. Yeah. The inside, they oftentimes, they left the tool marks on the inside. Like, if I rub my finger on the inside of this top rim, like, they literally flattened the top ceiling of this thing. Right.

Like, how are you going to do that? Right. With any of these tools. Yeah, I mean, the inside of them, you've got the tool marks, and it's like, you know, it's kind of a question mark as to whether or not the tool marks are horizontal or whether or not they're spiral. Right. I mean, sometimes they kind of like cross over and you could make the argument that it's a spiral toolmark, but then at other times it's like they're perfectly flat and horizontal it looks like. But yeah, they don't, typically they don't polish the inside of the artifact. Typically, they're leaving that part and showing you the tool marks.

And so, you know, you look in any of these and you've got tool marks on the inside. And that's why I brought one for you that I think could be a modern reproduction, like a modern fake. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. And so that's this guy. So feel this compared to all the other ones that you've picked up. Oh, it's way lighter. Right.

It's way lighter. Check the inside, too. it's like it's polished on the inside the same way that it's polished on the outside oh yeah the inside is just as smooth right right and there's absolutely no damage there's no wear there's no you know you don't get any age on that thing whatsoever but but it was sold as an ancient egyptian you know did you feel this and inspect it before you bought it no you just look at pictures i bought it and and yeah i just looked at pictures and it and and it and and it and it and showed up and I'm like yeah I don't know about this one but I but I kept it no I the guy gave me

the opportunity to return oh did he really yeah yeah but I wanted to use it and it wasn't very expensive so so I wanted to and it does not spend it doesn't spend it's got a per exactly so so I wanted to be able to use it as an example of something that is different than what you see on the 65 others yeah that it's like you know there's a like people that go and that make these today in China or whatever, like, they don't know what they're doing. You know, they wouldn't know to round the bottom. They can't put age on something like this. They don't know the leaf tool marks at the top in the inside.

You know, they don't know not to polish. So, yeah, I mean, that's, I think, another good reason to think that these things are, you know, genuine and authentic. Do you have any visuals that show, like, some of the measurements or the scans that were done on these things? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, so which one would you want to? Oh, yeah, any of them. Whatever one do you think?

Okay. Yeah, I mean, this one, this one's pretty great. This is the gold handle one. The Placos. Yeah, yeah. Which is just a... And why is the gold? How do they get the gold on there? What is that? It's a question, you know? Maybe that was added later? It could be. Yeah, yeah, it could be. I really don't know. I mean, supposedly, they say it's original, but, you know, it's really kind of hard to know. But this is the certificate of authenticity that comes with it. I mean, you get a different one based on... And is it real gold?

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Wow. And it's very, you know, it's thin. It's like gold plate, basically. But, yeah, that one will spend perfectly for like a very long period of time. Wow.

This is a receipt from 1975, you know, that, like, describes the thing. And then we go into the CT scan report. Right. And, again, this was done by a third party. They don't know, you know, anything about, like, the project or whatever. But it gives you these measurements on the artifact, and you can compare the different measurements to try to get a sense for, like, you know, the symmetry involved in it. So just, for example, this measurement is of the X and Y axis of the width of the artifact.

So it's like the... Can you punch in on that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. Oh, wow, look at that. That's the edge. Damn. Yeah. So the measurement is 120.

48.457 millimeters on the y axis and on the x axis it's 128.476 millimeters. Yeah. So you're talking in two one hundredths of a millimeter, you know, which is like less than, I think that's less than one one thousandth of an inch. I mean, you know, crazy, crazy, crazy deviation there. The mouth, so the mouth opening and the mouth opening is a little bit more difficult a lot of times because, um, of like damage for whatever reason, like on the inside of a lot of these things. But, but yeah, I mean, you got 52.06 versus 52.1-1-2. So, you know, do the math there. I think you're, I'm not doing the math there. Yeah, that's minuscule. It's a lot of math, yeah, but very small. What is that one right there?

So zoom in right there? What do that say right there? NOM, 52.26, 52.30. Nominal. So it's not a real measurement. The actual measurement is the measure. measurement number. The nominal is kind of like they create this CAD model of what the perfect circle wouldn't look like and what like I think it's kind of like what they think if they were to

they take a slice of it basically and then they do a slice all the way around. Yeah. Yeah. And then they try to create like a nominal measurement. But that's not it's not a real measurement. And then yeah, how to measure the handles. And a lot of times, yeah, we haven't even talked about like the royal cubit. Right, right. We got the sacred geometry baked into these bad boys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But on this one, on the handle measurement, a lot of on a lot of these things,

the handle measurement is actually a circumference measurement. So the distance there is meaningless in terms of royal cubits, but when you multiply it by pie and you get the circumference of the handles, which would have, on almost all of these, been the widest part of the

original block that they were using. You get a number that is, like, like a royal finger, you know, which is a subunit of a royal cubit, which we can talk about in a little while. But on most of the other measurements, it's all diameter. But on the, on the handles, it's usually, what I'm finding is it usually shows up in terms of circumference. So that's that one. You know, a lot of, oh, and, you know, I should show you the, I had them. And they measured the inside. I had them measure the inside of the holes just to see if there was anything there, you know, in terms of the Royal Cubit measurements. Yeah. But I haven't really found

any correlation. So it doesn't seem like that that's a measurement that they were trying to do. Interesting. Yeah. So that would have been the seventh, you know, but I think I've identified like six on on these things. So like there's two questions. Like was this purposeful precision? Or was this just because it was so damn easy for them that didn't matter? Right, right. Yeah. I mean, And when you look at the precision as it relates to the measurements, like the royal cubits, then it's pretty obvious that they intended to do that on a lot of these things, like on a lot of these things. It's like, you know, on this round one, for example, like it's like it's four royal fingers tall or digits. We'll call it maybe a digit tall.

People call it either one. So it's four fingers tall. Four fingers tall, six fingers wide. So, I mean, 6.0 to like just a couple of thousands of an inch away from Isaac Newton's 18.7 millimeter royal finger, like the measurement that he defined and like he realized that the great pyramid, the step pyramid, the bent pyramid, the bent step and red pyramid were all used this, this measurement of a royal cubit, which was 523 point. 52.36 centimeters. Wow. So 523.6 millimeters was a royal cubit for all of those pyramids. And he found like the King's Chamber and the Grey Pyramid is 10 by 20 cubits, like exactly.

And a subunit of that we know is the finger. And so there's 28 fingers in every one of those. So every finger is 18.7 millimeters. And when you measure a lot of these things, you find that measurement in the dimensions of the artifact on a lot of these things. Now I haven't, like I've only scanned, you know, 12, I think, so far, something like that. So I got more work to do. But I have found that royal finger measurement in a lot of them, not every one of them, but a lot of them. And it's consistent because it's in like, you know, four out of the six measurements or, you know, and it's way more than coincidental

that you'd be finding like perfect, you know, 0.0 royal fingers like, you know, in these things. So it's pretty clear that at least on some of these things that they were using that system of measurement to create it. And it's very clear that that dimension and that accuracy of manufacture is like it's one thing to make a circle, right? And it's one thing to be able to like say, okay, I got a circle that's, you know, one one thousandth of an inch of perfect roundness. But it's another to have a dimension that's perfectly round or perfectly, you know, precise. And that's one thing that hasn't been really explored on these artifacts in any meaningful way by anybody really yet. And so it's one of the things that by measuring these things, I'm going to be able to hopefully shed some more light on that. Like, is it just random?

Is it just coincidence? And I just happened to have found these things in the first handful that I've measured and I'm never going to find it again. But you don't see like inches. You don't see centimeters. You know, you don't see like I'm getting zero hits on, you know, just random systems of measurements. measurement, you know, like random metrological systems you don't see. You always see it on that one specific Isaac Newton's, you know, 18.7 that the pyramids were built off of. Well, those, those measurements are the measurements that they used back then, though, right? Those civilizations would

use those measurements to do stuff. I mean, even going to like the Romans and stuff like that, they used the royal cubit, the finger, all those different terms for whatever, the hand to, to, to build their structures. So it did change, you know, like all those ancient pyramids, like it kind of argues that maybe all those pyramids are a lot older, you know, and maybe these artifacts are a lot older. If it's the same system that you find in the pyramids that you find in these ancient artifacts, you know, maybe they were either they were all built roughly within the same, you know, a couple of hundred years or potentially it was like a measurement system in use for some lost civilization, you know, so maybe whoever, you know,

It could be a very, very ancient metrological system, or it could just be what the ancient Egyptians used, you know, in the pre-dynastic and early dynastic time period. Because the pyramids measured the same way, right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But like then after a while, the pharaoh started to change up the system, right? So, like, the cubit changed based on the length of the pharaoh's elbow to their middle finger.

They would, like, they would make the cubit based on how their body was. was how long their arm was. So everything got kind of mixed up. So that could be part of the reason why you only see it in some, and you don't see it in others, because I don't know what the freaking, you know, third dynasty, Pharaoh's elbow length was. Yeah, right.

You know, so, yeah, there's a lot of unknowns. But, yeah, this is kind of interesting. This is the surface deviation report of this specific artifact with the gold handles on it. And you can pretty clearly see that the deviations, The deviation is in, this is the scale of the deviation. So, you know, it goes, and this is in millimeters. So the surface deviation is not as precise as like the dimensions or the roundness necessarily.

But what you see is, and some of this could be due to surface residue, you know, that I just didn't, like, that just wasn't cleaned off, you know, because these are very, very. When you say surface deviation, what does that mean? So it's like, it's like this part of the object right here that you see in. bright orange is 0.3 millimeters above the average. Ah, got it. Yeah. Okay, so the blue is going like down in elevation. Exactly.

Orange is up in elevation. Yeah, yeah. You can kind of think on like the dark blue as just below sea level. The light blue is sea level. The green as land and like yellow and red as like, you know. Volcano islands. Yeah, like, got it. Yeah.

Yeah. So, but it is interesting because you see that clearly, you know, you see this yellow line going across the middle of it. Pretty, I mean, I think that says it was turned, you know, that you've got this whole patch of yellow that goes across the middle of it. That indicates that a lathe was used, I think, and this is not the best example. I got better examples, but that a lathe was used to manufacture this thing. And then you got this blue line, you know, right there that goes all the way around it that also indicates, you know, this thing was turned on a lathe. but this and again

how does that explain the handles yeah so what they would have done is left the material between the handles and then come back and got that later and you can kind of see maybe they did chisel that on this specific artifact

because you know some of these blue like that you know that area this area between the handles maybe that was chiseled potentially but what they would have done let me see if I can find it here I'm gonna probably

let's see not there what they would have done is they would have they would have they would have I'll just

try to describe maybe they use some kind of like dark magic to make these things soft and they could just mold them however they wanted it's possible you know

I mean so but there is really good evidence for lathe use on most of these things like on a lot of things. Right. So let me see the thin wall granite, for example. So this one is that, this is the certificate for the thin one that we looked at where you can shine the light through it. Um,

this is the surface deviation report for that. Whoa. Look at that. Right. Right. That's pretty telling. Yeah. Pretty, pretty telling there. I mean, that was turned. I mean, clearly. Can you punch in a little bit more? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Wow, dude. Yeah. Whoever did this. It's like ribbed. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you can't see that. You can't see it to the naked eye. With your naked eye. It looks completely flat. Looks completely like, yeah. So whoever made this, this, this isn't like, you know, modern day machine that would have made this with like lasers because you would never get this, this, you know, you wouldn't get that. Well, is that how? Is that how? It's, that how. It's, they do it today with when they cut granted they use what do they use to cut like precise granite today uh they use

it's like a um it's it's they've got a handful of different methods but it's like very very sturdy on rods like metal rods and they're right turning it and they're like they're like just like shaving it off it like perfect i mean it's computer guided five axis cnc mills is my understanding and it's like they're shaving it off like to perfect round this it's not like you'd be turning it and then changing the tool and going to a higher level and then turning it again like is kind of what we see here. So not a lathe. This is a lathe.

No, I mean, I mean today. Oh. It wouldn't be a traditional, like what we think of as a lathe. Yeah. It would be. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just a very sophisticated lathe today. Good Lord. Now, what is that red? That's because it's popping out more?

Yeah. So the red, a lot of people, you know, talk about the handles and talk about how the handles are not as precise as the rest of the object and that this shows that that's the case. because of the redness. What you have to understand about the handles is that on every artifact, they're offset. Like, they're not directly across from each other.

And so people, like debunker people, you know, they're all like, see, it was handmade. You know, it's like clearly handmade. But in reality, it's on every single artifact. And it's almost always like when you see the side that the handles are closer together, there's some portion. of it that's like more visually attractive.

Like this one, for example, you know, you got this like wide open piece on the granite. That's the side that the handles are closer to. So in my mind, they intentionally had the handles pushed forward to the side where it's more visually attractive. And I think that this is a good example of that. There's a bunch of examples of that. But I think they did it on purpose. Like, I think they, I think the handles were pretty clearly shifted together on one side on purpose, on all of these because it's consistent.

You don't find any where the handles are directly across from each other. But what that does, the software, the program is assuming that the handles are supposed to be directly opposite of each other. And so when they're not, you get these red lines on the thing. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

It's like, again, that's like pure speculation land that, you know, just, I don't know that we know. So that's kind of interesting. And then you've got the thickness report, which is pretty cool. So you can tell and you can tell that this is where they've really thinned out the wall on the thin wall vase. And, you know, you can see kind of the thickness. So the green is the thickest? The green is the thickest, yeah, and it's always thickest at the bottom. And I'm guessing the purple is the thinest?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's that band there that's super thin. And, you know, unfortunately, the company EMS wasn't able to stack these measurements at the exact same height on both sides. So we can't really like match up the bottom versus the bottom and say. you know, these are at the exact same height, they're just kind of arbitrarily picking points. So it's not as if you can compare 4.574 to, you know, 4.435.

But what we did find, and I've got tools like wall thickness gauge, is that when you do that, the wall thickness is one of those other measurements that's always extraordinarily accurate, especially on the precision-made ones. Like the wall thickness on one side at one horizontal axis is going to be almost exactly, as thick as the wall as the wall on the other side of the artifact yeah yeah so so however they were doing it however they were hollowing out the interior it's not like they had like a fork you know like a like a stick with a stone on the end of it i mean it was much more sophisticated of a process than that right yeah absolutely yeah so pretty interesting i mean that's that and then uh god it's so fascinating man

yeah yeah so how many of these do you think exist in the world Shit, man, that's a good question. I mean, you're going to hear people say anywhere between, like, you know, at a low you might hear $5,000, at a high you might hear $500,000. You know, so I don't... You have how many total? 65. You have 65. Yeah, something like that.

Who owns the most of them? What do you mean? Like who... Is there one person or organization that has the most of these? Like the largest private collection in the world? So, Fayette is an Israeli art dealer, and he has... the largest private collection of ancient antiquities in the world. The largest private collection of stone Egyptian vessels specifically, I don't know. I mean, I've had people say that I've got to

have one of the biggest collections in the world at this point. Right. Yeah, I imagine you do. Yeah, but like, I mean, they go up, they go up for auction. So like the reason there's, there's none available right now is no collector has died recently, basically, right? So, so like, family, like some collector will die, pass on his estate to his kids or whatever, and then they go to an auction house, and they put them up for auction. So you might see like six come out at a time,

you know, or 10 come out at a time on like Christie's or Sotheby's or whatever it might be. But again, yeah, you don't see that, you don't see that, you know, often. What was the name of the Israeli company that has them? Barracket. Yeah, yeah. I found out the name of that Israeli guy, by the way. We were talking about last night.

Okay. His name was Moshi Diane. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. I got a couple of artifacts from his collection. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like literally a like a plunderer. The guy like literally just went in there and raided these sites in Egypt and stole all of these artifacts.

He was obsessed with it. And this was the, he got an eye patch. He got, he looks like a raider. There's a story. He was like looking through binoculars like during one of the wars and he got shot. The binoculars got shot with a sniper. like shredded his eye. Okay.

But he was a legendary military general. Right. In the, what does it say? He was Israeli military leader, and he eventually became a politician. And he was a guy who led Israel through the six-day war. Yeah, we should talk about that war for a second. But yeah, I actually only have one from Moshi Diane,

and it's very small. So I thought I had a couple of them. but I remember the name. Oh, really? But, yeah, so it came through Fayas Barakat, who is the Israeli art dealer. And in 1968, in the 60s, Fayez had his main office in Israel. And so, you know, when you talk about a war, the Six-Day War in 1967, where Israel occupied Egypt and supposedly stole some artifacts from Egypt, Moshe, Diane, and whoever else. I mean, I mentioned General Uzi Narcis.

He was also a general in the Israeli army. I don't think there's anything that speculates that he stole stuff, but I do have a couple of these things with his name on it. So, I mean, if there's a way to prove that these were stolen from Egypt, I'm happy to give them back. Because now we've got the scans, and now that it's like, okay, you've got some precision on these things, and these things actually do have, you know, incredible,

incredible provenance, and you can prove that these are museum pieces that have been stolen, and we can say, look, these are precise down to whatever. I'll ship them back, man. No problem. If anybody, you know, if anybody, yeah, absolutely. I just want to know the truth, you know.

Well, who'd you pay? I mean, you should at least get your money back. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah. But, but, but, yeah, I mean, like, again, I should mention that I'm doing this to try to find out some truth. Right, exactly. our history.

Yeah. Like, I'm not like, I'm not obsessed with these. I don't, they're just, right, you're not just hoarding these away

in a closet. Right. You're making these public and like, exactly. Trying to explore what the hell was going on right then. Right.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they teach us, you know, I mean, they're rocks,

but they could teach us a lot. Spend a small fortune on some rocks, too. Yeah, yeah. But, but I think they ought to increase, you know, and value.

As, as people start to understand them, I think it'll be a, you know, a pretty good investment. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, they can teach us, I think, a lot about our true history, potentially. And if they don't, you know, if they can't, if it's just, we can just hand-wave this all away as, you know, explainable or fake, that's fine, too.

You know, I'm totally fine if the precision ones turn out to be modern-day reproductions. You know, it would be good to know that. It would be good to know that there's, like, some sophisticated criminals out there that are running these, you know, these art dealerships and websites and selling fakes. It would have to be convincing. It would have to be convincing. If people are going to claim that, like, I can't just accept that. I have to have a reasonable explanation for how.

And like what you pointed to earlier was that there's not a ton of these being made and sold for a lot of money. And these guys are very happy to refund you your money and you can return the vase of them if you don't want it. Right. Like it's not obvious that these things are being reproduced, right? No, definitely not. Yeah. What is, you said Flint Dibble had a theory on these things? What is, what do people like him or like archaeologists say about this stuff?

Handmade. She said they were handmade. She's handmade. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so, he, yeah, I put out a couple of videos on my ex channel. My X channel is, you know, it's small, but, but I put out a video and got like 200,000 views because people are interested in this topic. You know, I mean, it's just like repost, repost, repost. And somebody said, Flint Dibble, what do you think?

And so he came in and I actually said first before he, before I didn't even think he was, wouldn't come on and say anything. But, but, um, I'm like, I'll save you the suspense. Flint's going to, Flint's going to say they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're just too precise to be made with the tools in the archaeological record. Flint came on and he's like, uh, you know, he's basically, he basically said this, uh, where is it, thin wall, thin wall artifact. He's like, oh, handmade. Handmade. That was his, that was his thing. Um, and he looked at it, but, but Flint, I mean, love the guy. And he did a really good job on the Joe Rogan episode. I don't want to say. Yes. Yes. Yes. love the guy. He really did do a great job. But that was my first introduction to him. Yeah, me too. He did a, he did a really good job on that. So I am interested in his opinion, but he's not an expert. I mean, on ancient Egypt or on these artifacts. I don't think he's ever even seen or held one of these things. Yeah, but I wish they would have spent more time talking about Egypt on that podcast. Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, agreed. But he looked at the, there's, there's tool marks at the top of this one from either, it's either a,

It's either marks that indicate like a level of liquid or whatever would have been stored in these things. It's like some horizontal indentations at the top of this. Or whatever tool was making this when it was spinning slipped and created some grooves in the top of it. I don't know which one. But Flint's whole thing was he saw the marks on this and he's like, oh, handmade. But when you look at this, I mean, there's no. There's no way that that's... He saw the marks on the inside of this right here?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, clearly, the surface deviation report has proven that that was turned on a lathe based on those... Yeah. Yeah. He hasn't seen all the evidence. Right. Right. Yeah. I would love to get his reaction to all that stuff, all those reports. And to actually hold this in your hand and see the light shining through it for sure.

But archaeologists aren't machinists. They're not engineers. Exactly. That's the problem with this. the interdisciplinary aspect of it. Right, right. Yeah. But obviously a very intelligent guy and, you know, doing a good job with whatever he's doing. And I guess that's a problem with anything, right? Like, people specialize in one thing and don't collaborate enough.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, people get too, like, just tied to their perspective, their story, their side, you know, and just don't stay open-minded to, okay, what are the possibilities, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, so yeah, that, that, the royal finger thing, I mean, before we move on to the royal finger thing, maybe just show this surface deviation report. This is, again, that, that other one that's like a super, you know, super popular, super well-known artifact at this point. That's this one right here.

That's this one, yeah, yeah. And again, you've got pretty clear signs that it was turned based on the bottom. Oh, yeah, look at that. Yeah, you can see that. Rings. Exactly. Yeah, it's got rings on the bottom. The red handle thing.

again, is because the handles are offset from each other and the data is assuming that the handles are exactly apart. We'll get to that in a second. But the interesting thing on this one for me is the space between the handles. And again, that would have been, if this was turned, which it clearly was, even though archaeologists don't acknowledge that. Clearly this one was turned. And so, you know, and again, we can see that from the bottom. but then they would have come in with another tool afterwards and removed the material that's between the handles.

And so that's why we see that it's a higher surface. Because you can't turn it between the two handles. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You'd have to come in with another tool. Wow, dude. Right, right. And it's not like they just chiseled the area between the handles on this one,

because you would see little chisel marks. No, it's very consistent. Exactly, yeah. So it's almost like a whole different, like who knows what tool that was. whatever it was is not in the archaeological record. God, wouldn't you love to take a time machine back to when they were making these things and see what the fuck was going on?

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Absolutely. And like when would the time machine even take you to? Right. Yeah, you'd have to know, right? You'd have to have like a little barometer inside your time machine to see, look, where the fuck am I? I'm like, when I go back, nobody's going to believe me. Right, right. Yeah, and then the wall thickness, you know, you can kind of see the wall thickness on this

thing is just really perfect. I mean, it's like... Damn, dude. Yeah, it's crazy. yeah I mean it looks like the looks like Jupiter yeah yeah totally yeah I'm about this damn iPad but but then yes so then what they do is they cut like slices of the thing and they they they rotate the slices around and they they they tell you like on the inside of the wall like where the where the variance is yeah and then they extend the variance so this is not like real

we're not actually seeing like, you know, the inside of this red part right here is not actually coming off of the inside that much. You wouldn't even be able to see how much it's coming off, but they extend it so that it's visible to the human eye. Right. But there you can see on the inside, you know, where the tool marks actually happened compared to whatever slice that they turned around, that there is going to be some like indentations on the tool marks. So those blue things that are coming in, like whatever round turn that they did with whatever. tool was hollowing out the inside, it got a little bit deeper than the rest of the, you know, the rest of the tool marks. And then on the red, they, they left a little bit on that wall for whatever

reason. And on this one, they, it's actually kind of likely that they, that they left that material there in order to balance it. Because, again, this is like that round bottom one that sits perfectly on its bottom. They left material, this is according to Adam Dunn, Chris Dunn's son, who analyzed the report on this one. I haven't actually verified this yet. But the handles were slid closer together on one side of the artifact. And on the other side of the artifact,

they left wall material in the inside of the wall. So they made it heavier on this side to offset the weight that was on this side. Whoa. Yeah, to balance it. Yeah. Which, you know, you don't do that. Because the bottom's not flat.

Right. Exactly. And it needs to sit flat. Exactly. Wow. Yeah, yeah. What the fuck. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's crazy. There's a lot of, there's a lot of mysteries with these things, man. Man, the little one, I just, when I see this little one, did you scan any of these little ones? No, I haven't scanned little ones yet. I'm thinking they use these ones for drugs. Yeah, yeah, it could be. I would be fascinated to see how precise these tiny ones are, dude. Yep, yep.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, and I'm going to get them scan. Like, I think they, they, they, there's a couple of, Well, basalt ones, you know, so this tiny basalt guy is like super round, you know? I mean, it's like clearly not done with a chisel, right? Like you can't get this level around this with a chisel. So, yeah, I will scan those. It's the same cost to scan the little ones as the big ones.

And this one is like the oddest shape out of all of them. Like this one looks like it would be a good necklace pendant. Right, right, right. Or like one of those flasks, you could just hang it from your neck and like. Yeah. To carry your purple. Keep your little whatever. Yeah, and that wall will.

was not bored out. It wasn't hollowed out on the wall. Yeah, you can see it doesn't actually follow the hole. Right, right. Circumference of that thing. Yeah, so very, very small hole in that one. It was just cord. But yeah, man.

I mean, the Royal Cubit conversation is kind of interesting. If I can find that document here, if you want to go there next to you. When you say the Royal Cubic conversation, you're meeting how all these things are a specific amount of, what do you mean specifically? So it's basically the, yeah, so basically it appears that on a number of these artifacts that I've scanned and measured and found the dimensions of and divided by a royal finger, which is 18.7 millimeters, according to Isaac Newton. Okay.

So if you find the dimension of like the length, then you divide by 18.7, a lot of times you're getting whole numbers and a lot of times you're getting like perfect fractures. of numbers. And so people are going to say, like, it's just random, it's just coincidence. But if we can show through scanning enough of these and through analyzing enough of that data, that it's just mathematically impossible to have that much coincidence happen and that, yes, they were, in fact, using this measurement system, then you can prove that these things were accurate on a whole different scale than just roundness. You can prove that they're accurate to like on a dimensional scale as well.

Like a three-dimensional scale? Yeah, yeah. So it's not just like, you know, this thing is perfectly round within, you know, a hundredth of a millimeter or whatever. You can say that this, that they, that they were able to create an object with a mouth opening that was exactly what they wanted it to be to within, you know, like a thousandth of an inch or whatever, which is a whole new, like, mystery with these things because how could they measure that, you know? Like, how could they verify? Right, exactly. Do they have computers? Right.

Like, what tools were they using to verify that, like, something microscopic in a lot of cases? that you can't even see with your own eyes and they're achieving that level of precision on these things. So that's a mystery. What was that, what was the name of that? Do you know I'm talking about? There was a computer that was found in a shipwreck,

like some sort of like ancient computer. Antiquetheera. There you go. There you go. Can you pull that thing up? When was that from? It was from the, I think it was Greek. It was like a, it was from like 100.

I think it was like a thousand BC or something. Wow. That old? Yeah. Can you find that, Steve? I'm probably way off there you go oh there you go

the antichythera mechanism when was this from ancient greek hand-powered orrary model of the it was a model of the solar system described as the oldest known analog computer used to predict astronomical positions and eclipses

decades in advance it would also be used to track the four-year cycle of athletic games similar to the Olympiad in the cycle of ancient olympic games so this thing modeled the solar system yeah

Jesus okay when does it come from second century wait wait wait no that's just an astronomer what is this so what is the motion was studied in the second century BC but when did they claim that this thing came from instruments believed to have been designed and

constructed by the Hellenistic scientists 87 BC whoa 87 BC or between 150 and 100 or 205 BC. So, okay, so between 87 and 205 BC, those damn Greeks, bro. Yeah, man.

Yeah, it's got a bunch of gears. I want to get an expert in here that knows more about that because it had gears. It was like a giant watch. Yeah, go back up to it. Yeah. There's a, they did CT scans of it

and you could see all the gears inside. Yeah, but that, I mean, look, I mean, that's as incredible as that is, that's at most. as early as 200 BC. These things are 2,500 at the latest, right? Right, right. So, yeah, 26, kind of like 2650 is when they were buried at the step pyramid.

And, you know, you find them in graves. That's the other thing. Like, there's supposedly an image in Cairo of a tomb, a Nubian tomb that was found that's like 12,000 years old, 10,000 BC. that had a hardstone vase in it. And this is according to, you know, Ben Van Kirkwick, but apparently like the snake bros were there and they saw it too, I asked him for, I haven't got a picture of it yet,

but Ben had one in one of his videos that has like a burial, a grave from like 10,000 BC that has an ancient hardstone vase. If that's the case, like if that's real, these things could be as old as, you know, life itself. I mean, we have no idea how old these could be. this is this the tomb a nebological site along the nile reveals nubian civilization that flourished in ancient sudan that's the civilization that's the civilization uh but it wasn't sudan right

bc maybe who knows that was just a quick search yeah i don't know if it was sudan or not but uh but yeah i mean that would be really compelling information that would be really compelling that these things could be absolutely you know very very ancient like law civilization ancient, you know, like, I mean, somebody built Gobeckley Tepe, right? Like, they were master stoneworkers, obviously, and Carahan Tepe, and, you know, these sites that have been dated to 11,600 BC at a minimum. And so, you know, they're using their master stone workers. They're, like, carving mountains off, you know, making them perfectly flat, like inserting 20 ton stone pillars. So people were working with stone in a sophisticated way. And we think we know who it was. Like, we, you know, we think, like,

archaeologists oh yeah sure that was these people and they were just you know I love how Ben always says like they were trying to get away from the uh the wife and kids on a on a weekend right right they were just like hang out right hang out with the boys yeah yeah but but I mean I think that's a possibility you know um I don't think that's completely crazy yeah yeah but I mean still though go Becli Teppy as incredible as it is there's no precision there yeah yeah yeah you know I mean it's megalithic for sure right um And it's astonishing considering the date, the carbon dating. Yeah.

But so there's no way to carbon date these, right? There's no organic material. You can't date stone, you know, but what you can do potentially is do some studies to try to figure out what tools were used to hollow out the inside. Because you can, like, and I've got to get connected with the right people to send these off to get that study done. But the inside the tool marks, like you can potentially find evidence for whatever was used to hollow them out. You know, so that could be something that eventually you can test. But again, if it's, you know, if it's another stone that was used or copper or whatever, you can't date that necessarily. Right.

You know, so, but there might be something that you can learn from it. What's the most compelling theory that you've heard about these things? you know I don't know man I mean nobody you've talked to is like like come to you and be like Matt I have an idea I know what these things were for like for their function yeah no I mean nobody nobody knows nobody knows nobody knows no I mean you know the most I mean the most prevalent theory is just that they were just used for like you know decorative purposes like you know that there was no function so no I mean the function it's just you're just getting into pure speculation at that point and I think like a lot of people are

just trying to avoid that until, you know, they know more about the, until they know more, you know. Right. So, but yeah, this, this, you want to talk a little bit about this, the measurements on these things? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, cool. So, so this guy at the top, this is Adam Young's artifact, right? So if you look at this and the unsigned.io did a report on this that identified some sacred geometry in it.

that, you know, I'm going to stay away from that because I didn't completely understand the report to be, you know, totally honest with you. But what we do find in here, if you just look at the measurements, and unfortunately, so this scan doesn't have the most accurate, like, it's down to a tenth of a millimeter on this scan. You can see, you know, when you look at like the height, for example, which is, you know, on here, it's that six, six and four. So it's 6.412 royal fingers. But back all the way up, if you look at the millimeters on the height, it's 119. So they didn't go to the hundredth or to the thousandth of a millimeter on this, so it wasn't the greatest scan. But what you find from that when you divide by 18.7 is you get 6.412 royal fingers in height. And so you look at that and it's like, okay, well, that's a meaningless number, you know, and nobody's really,

found anything, you know, with that number. But what 64 represents is the grid of life in sacred geometry. And so I think that when unsigned.io found the flower of life, as it relates to this artifact with all those circles that he was doing, that what he had actually found was the grid of life. And that whoever made this thing was embedding the 6.4 as a sign that, hey, this is the grid of life. And the grid of life is basically the flower of life, except it's like a three-dimensional version of it. So it uses tetrahedrons instead of circles, which this is a three-dimensional object. So that makes sense. And it's accurate to 6.4 to within 9.1,000th of an inch. So it's similar accuracy in the dimensions, so in the height dimension, if this is really what they were going for,

6.4, I think it was. It's similar, it's, it's equal to like the accuracy of the circles that we find in it. And all anybody's been talking about is the accuracy of the circles for the longest time. But I do think the dimensions are actually something that we really need to look at too. The, the width, the second row down there is 84.3 millimeters. And if you divide that by the 18.7, you get 4.5 royal fingers to within 6.1,000s. The neck is fee squared royal finger. 2.618 is fee squared royal finger. So you've got to take fee and then, or phi, and then you got to square it and you get two 1,000ths of an inch deviation. I don't know what 1.2 is, to be honest with you, maybe somebody on the show can leave in the comments. Yeah, I'm sure somebody will know.

Yeah, let us know. Right, right. The mouth opening on this one is very precise to 3, 1,000th of an inch of 2.0 royal fingers. So that one is highly, highly accurate. And then the lip is pie royal fingers. So the lip is like the outside of the circle on the top, 3.14 to within 5,000ths of an inch. You know, so.

So I don't know, man. I mean, that one looks pretty compelling, although the measurements and the dimensions of it. But that one seems like it's lining up to this subunit of the royal cubit to within a high degree of accuracy. Right. Because it's like all of these measurements. But then you know you don't find This is really the only one where I'm finding these sacred geometry numbers Like I'm not finding like pie row of fingers in the other ones that I've scanned so far

So I'm just finding like straight up either hole or fractions of row of fingers Wow dude yeah yeah it's pretty crazy so so this second one which is the spinner here Yeah this guy when you look at it again the height is four royal fingers to within seven one thousandths of an inch the width is six to within one one thousandth of an inch the mouth opening is two and two six i think they're using sixths uh as opposed to thirds but you could say thirds you know and you're you're less than five one thousandths of an inch and the lip is three and a half to within four ten thousandths of an inch so so less than one one thousandth of a minute you know 40% of of one one thousand right very very accurate on that

And it kind of just keeps, you know, we don't have to go through every one of these. But you see the same thing on the thin wall artifact. You know, you see very tight, very tight tolerances. And then I guess I just kind of probably close with this one, which is freaking huge. And heavy. Holy moly. Yeah, that's a big one. Oh, this is the biggest one out here.

Yeah, it probably is. Yeah. Yeah, that thing's huge. Good Lord. Look at that, people. Right. How big did they get? It feels like a 45-pound barbell.

Yeah, that thing's legit. Is this as big as they get? I mean, in terms of the hard stone, yeah, they don't get a lot bigger in terms of the hard stone. Alabaster, the stuff that's like the imitation of this stuff, they can get much bigger than that. You can feel the ribbing on the inside of it where they use tools to carve it out. Yep, yep. And that one has good, there's images of that one way in the, like, 20th century. like really yeah yeah there's that one's i think i feel i mean i feel really good about all these i'm not

gonna like buy them if i didn't feel good about them obviously but i feel really good about that one and that one is measuring out in whole royal fingers but it's not as precise as some of these smaller ones right but but when you look at the height it's 7.02 royal fingers to within one one hundredth of an inch you know or just less than two one hundredths of an inch the width is 13 royal fingers to within you know it's a similar type of accuracy there the neck um i you might be able to get rid of that neck one just because i had to go to uh circumference there and usually you're not seeing circumference on the neck but even the 8.925 is pretty close to to 9 the mouth is uh 4.99 royal fingers you know so that's you're talking 8 8

1,000th of an inch. And the lip is 9.95. So, you know, and the handles, again, handles are almost always in circumference as opposed to diameter. That's, you know, 5,000ths of an inch. And so you're talking. Astonishing, dude. It's incredible. I mean, and it's all whole royal fingers on the biggest one, which makes sense, because they don't need to go to fractions on the biggest one, right? Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's that one. That's so wild, dude. It's pretty crazy, man. It really is. And it's, It's really cool that you've been able to connect with all these people like Ben, Ben Kirkwick, and, you know, the Snake Bros and all these guys who do all these trips out there

are fascinated by this stuff and talk about this stuff. You're able to get them on your podcast and, like, let them, like, look at this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's super cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Ben was my first guest on the podcast. Was he really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's amazing. He's a great dude. I mean, all those guys are great people with Snake Bros. Was that his first time seeing these things in real life? It was. Yeah, it was. Yeah, he was like a kid in his pants. Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. I mean, it's hard not to. Like, it's one thing to see them, like, behind a glass or whatever. But when you, like, when you see these things, like, like, you get a sense that these are freaking old. Yeah. You know, like, it's different. When you go to a museum, are you allowed to touch them? No.

No. I mean, you know, sometimes they might bring them out if you, like, request it special with, like, gloves and, you know. Yeah, we were sitting at dinner last night in a restaurant and you literally poured your iced tea into one of them to see how. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How much water it would hold. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the show. Like, that's insane. Yeah.

You're madman. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and this one, that was this guy, and it's the spinner, and it still spins with the water. Right. And it actually, this one actually, when you measure the volume of the inside of this one, it's exactly an ancient system of Egyptian measurement. It's a Hecet. It's like. Oh, volume measurement?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like one 16th of a Hecate, which happens to also, unfortunately, be 300 cc's um so that's a modern you know measurement so the volume of all of these things could have sacred geometrical numbers could have just could have just numbers that were um important for you know whatever either trade or you had to know how much you were paying you know to like fill your your thing up with whatever liquid or yeah you know um perfume or whatever it was that you were buying you know potentially like i don't i don't freaking know but right but you know but uh that I mean, those are some possibilities that the volume actually did matter.

That's interesting. Yeah, I'd be interested to see, like, how the volume of all of these different vases compared to each other. That might be, that might be a rabbit hole. Yeah. You could find something out. You can maybe dig deeper into what these things were for. Right. These are kind of cool because what they, when you set these in water and they don't have anything in them, they float.

Yeah. Yeah. So like like the water they'll sit in the water. I don't know if you have like a bucket that we could fill like with water or whatever for demonstration. But but like these don't these don't sink. And so like the water it'll it'll sit all the way up to the water to this point. Right to the line. Right to the line.

And just balance perfectly. Like no shit. Yeah. So was that intentional? That's weird. Right. Right. Yeah.

I get goosebumps talking about. Is there any other other, are there any other artifacts that are as wild as this that are out there? I mean, if there is, somebody's got to tell me about it. You're not aware of any, though. No. No, no. I mean, because this is like some of the oldest stuff that people can get their hands on, right? I mean, like, you can't collect stuff because, I mean, this is like times that this stuff wasn't, like, we have no idea the tools. We don't know how this stuff was supposedly made.

Right. This is like, this like predates writing in a lot of cases. You know, I mean, you're talking about like writing like, you know, whatever, 3,300 BC. A lot of these, like basalt was being made in like 4,500 BC, you know, according to the mainstream explanation for even writing. that this predates that. You know, so you can't collect stuff that's older than this. It just doesn't exist out there. You know, maybe like arrowheads that we don't know how old they are

or like beads that we don't know how old they are or whatever. But there's no like classification of artifact that exists like this. It's like the coolest thing ever. I got a question. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So talking about the metrics, you know, like keeping everything, like measuring royal fingers, right? Yeah.

Um, the, those handles, those little, those, uh, shoulder pieces, the, the lugs. Yeah. They all have holes in them. Have you, have you all, have you ever measured them to see if those holes are the same size or if there's only like a handful of drill bits that they used or are they just random sizes? They seem to be all different sizes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they seem to be different sizes. And it seems like they drilled into one side and then they drilled into the other side and they met in the middle. So it wasn't as if it was like one, it's not like one. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, it's not like one straight line. That one I think is like clogged. It has like some on one of them. There was there was one that looked like it dipped inwards. Like it wasn't even, yeah, you're right. It wasn't a straight line. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see that in the scan better because you get the inside walls, you know,

when you, when you look at the CT scan. But yeah, it's like it's like two straight lines that connect in the middle of the levels as opposed to one thing through, which makes sense because they're rounded off. And if you just, you know, you would be like, you could, you could potentially run into the inside wall if you didn't take a slight angle. Right. Yeah. How do you have time to run your business, dude? Doing all this crazy shit. I stopped doing everything else. Yeah, I have like no hobbies. For people that are listening, you are the, you run Bell's Outlet. Your last name is Bell, not Bell's outlet, but Bell's Department stores and there's no more outlet, right? Right. Right. which is you if you're a Floridian

everybody knows Bells yeah that's funny because when Ben came out here if you have Beals might this this this bloke name Bill I'm like Bells yeah like I'm like I wonder if it's related to Bells and I looked it up was like God damn that's crazy yeah yeah yeah you can tell

people are from Florida or not if they pronounce it bells or Beals right yeah absolutely yeah yeah the Australian accent gives it away too but right right right yeah that's wild yeah man I mean I stopped like I mean it was just kind of for 2023 you know I really got into this. And what I did actually is start to work like 13 hour days. I mean, that's the only, I mean, I started a podcast. Like I started, you know, this is actually not as time consuming as you might think it is. You know, it's just like, and I think that shows by the

fact that I've only had 13 scanned and, you know, I haven't been able to really do the royal finger measurements. Like I haven't like devoted as much like the most important thing to me, of course, family number one, number two business, making sure that, you know, that that is, you know, is, is on good standing and that that's going to be successful. And then, you know, everybody's got to have a hobby. So I don't drink, you know, I don't like, I don't, you know, I kind of quit playing golf. So there's not a lot that, you know, I'm kind of like just. You quit playing golf? Yeah, man, I don't have time for that shit. Why'd you quit? You just don't have time? I just don't have time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I used to play like whatever, once every month or two.

And now it's like once every year, basically. Yeah. So it's just, it's just tough to get out and make time. But, but yeah, so, so that's how, you know, I just work a lot, work a lot of hours just to make sure that I get everything done. Yeah, we were talking a little bit about last night, but you guys, you guys have still tons of locations all around the country. Yeah. It's pretty insane. Like, I never expected to see Bells in like Pennsylvania. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was only in Florida. Yep, yep. Yeah, we're 23 states right now. So, yeah, the, the off-price division, which used to be Bell's outlet that's now just Bells has really been good. really been on a nice growth streak. We open like, well, we've got 650 stores, you know, in total.

So, yeah, it's been great. It's a great business. It's a great group of people. I mean, it's just an amazing, like, I love work. I love showing up. You know, I love working with my team. And, you know, it's cool because it's a 109-year-old family business. 109. Yeah, man. Yeah, we started in 1915. Whoa. Yeah. That's nuts. Yeah, yeah. You don't see that really too much anymore. So, like, your great-grandparents? Yeah. Yeah, my great-grandfather, and then his son, my grandfather, and then my dad. Where was the first location?

Bradenton. Bradenton? No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, right on the Manatee River in Bradenton. And we kind of grew, like, just kind of expanded with Publix, you know, we would just do like a handshake deal. You guys want a retailer in your center, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. We went through the Great Depression, you know, almost like, you know, my great-grandson. grandfather almost lost the company. He did lose the company to the banks, to his lenders,

and had to work like 12 years to get it back. So very humble, very, very humble beginnings. Very, very, you know, it's been, you know, retail is a challenge, obviously. You know, it's not for the faint of heart. You know, there's a lot to it. It's super detailed, you know, but a ton of fun. But yeah, we've been through a lot in the last 110 years. You know, the great recession, the, the COVID, you know, were shut down for six weeks, you know, hurricane. like galore like the hurricane two years ago was just you know that hit our heartland you know in Fort Myers and Cape Coral so you know we're yeah man yeah tough tough stories there with with people but you know we've got a we got a good foundation and we try to you know

through through natural disasters make our employees whole and you know do everything that we can to to respond to them quickly in times of need while they're waiting for their checks that never that don't come for months you know from FEMA or whatever you know, we've got a good system to really take care of our people. So, yeah, it's fun, man. I enjoy it. We, you know, we're not the biggest, but. I mean, it's pretty freaking big, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's got to be, it's got to be super time-consuming job. I mean, there's a lot of responsibility. It's legit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but it's fun. I love it. I mean, I've been, been in the company,

just celebrated my 20-year anniversary, actually, a couple of weeks ago. Oh, wow. Yeah, and been doing the CEO chairman thing for four and a half. half years right right before COVID right before COVID took you know did that so yeah it's cool how do you guys have such a diverse category or such a diverse collection of items for so cheap I swear it's baffles me every time my wife comes home with something she literally came home with these like they look like burk and stocks this was two days ago yeah she came home with these clear burkenstocks that like their see-through yeah but when you walk in the sun they like they like gleam purple.

They're the most insane, cool shoes of her got. She's like, yeah, I got them from Bells. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we got a great group of those stuff. Yeah. You can buy, like, you can buy like enough clothes to last you for five years for 50 bucks. It's insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah, yeah. We got a great group of buyers, man. I mean, they're out there

scouring in the market for like deals, everywhere they can go for like deal after deal, you know, and they're finding them. And such a variety of brands, too. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Everything. Billabong, yeah. Frickin' Fricin'liver, Levi's. Yeah. Every single freaking amazing clothing brand you think of. All the brands, yeah.

Under Armour, I mean, like all the active brands we got in there. So, yeah, it's, the buyers do a really, really good job. I mean, they're super talented and they're out there. I mean, they have to, you know, they're competing with the best retailers in the world. You know, like big, like big, big national retailers that can write orders that are a lot bigger than ours. You know, we got to be in there and just, it's just a great company. It's just a great, like, we have great relationships with people, you know, the vendor community and they support us and we support. and we support them.

So, yeah, man. It's two separate buying staffs for Bells and Bells, Florida, which used to be Bell's Outlet and Bells Department stores. I know that's kind of confusing. We went through a rebrand, but we got Bells now that used to be Bell's Outlet and Bells, Florida that used to be Bell's department stores. And they have two different buying staffs.

Okay. Yeah, two different, it's two totally different companies. People think that, like, people used to think a lot that Bell's Outlet got the leftovers from Bells, but that's never the case. Okay. Yeah, they're out there. Like, they're in market, like, working with the vendors direct on the off price side, on the bell side. So, yeah, man, it's good.

People love deals, man. Oh, yeah. I imagine half the company has to be, like, real estate, too. Like, like, half of it's got to be, like, managing real estate and, like, buying and selling real estate assets and trying to, like, play that whole game. I mean, we rent, you know, so it's like. Oh, you guys always rent? Yeah, we haven't owned. We got into, yeah, it was, like, a lesson we learned super early on in the company.

Really? Yeah, yeah, like, renting is. better. Now, I mean, so if we were to own our store locations, you know, we might have a hundred stores right now, but, but we'd have a lot of value in the land, but, you know, we went the direction of, hey, you got to, we want to grow. And we want to, you know, we don't want to be tied up. And we don't want to be a real estate company. We want to be a retailer. So, so, yeah, we've, yeah, we rent our store locations and, you know, we signed whatever 40-year lease terms, you know, 25 with, with extension, you know, of lease terms. So, yeah, the real estate division. is, you know, it's 20 people or something like that for the company. So they're constantly

looking for deals. We open, we're going to open 30 new stores this year, 40 next year, 50 the year after. So we've, you know, we're growing. We opened, gosh, about almost 200 in the last three years, probably, you know, the three and a half years. So, yeah, it's been, it's been good. Like people love the, like you said, people love the merchandise, people love the people. We got great people working for us. That's really, you know, when it's a good experience, you're going to come back and when you find great products. So, yeah, man, it's a, but it's a very complex. Retail is not for everybody, you know, it's super complex.

It's super difficult. And, you know, off price and online are definitely disrupting the retail industry for sure, you know, in a significant way between Amazon and between all these online retailers and boutiques and all that stuff. So, you know, you just got to keep competing, keep doing everything you can. And, you know, we like providing jobs. We like, you know, we like the, you know, the family likes the fact that there's nobody else that's really not sold out. Like, you know, there's nobody else really out there that's like a big family retailer that's still in business today, you know, that's not like, you don't see that. So it's all big public companies.

And so it's weird. I always imagined that big companies and department stores and even grocery stores, you know, these, these, the big. retailers that you see in like shopping centers or or not malls but like mostly shopping centers or or like brick and mortar locations i always imagined that they would buy the real estate yeah yeah no they're almost everybody's mostly written really yeah yeah yeah yeah publics does a lot of stuff they own a lot of their properties but they do right yeah but uh most retailers i think home depot does too maybe yeah they probably too yeah yeah yeah and then why did you start when did you want to start a podcast uh just kind of for fun yeah i mean honestly, like, I was just, like, I was just, uh, wanted to kind of, uh, you know, I mean,

there's two of them. So I've got, uh, Matt Bell limitless, which talks about, like, a lot of kind of stuff you talk about. Like, it's like, you know, I'm, I'm exploring, like, just topics that I'm interested in. I know you're exploring topics that you're personally, like, super interested in, you know, and so, um, that's for fun. Like, I wanted to meet people. I wanted to explore this topic. I want to, you know, I kind of started off with the ancient civilization topic on limitless. I mean, I've talked to, uh, you know, Ben and Chris Dunn. And I just talked to the Knights Templar, Timothy Hogan. Yeah, that's a wild podcast.

Dude, yeah. Jesus. Yeah, he dropped some freaking bombs on that episode. It was great. But, you know, Billy Carson's come on. Yeah. I got Randall Carlson coming on next week. I got a bunch of good guests.

I mean, people are just, you know, interested in talking. So which is cool. I mean, it's just a bunch of cool people. So that's for fun. And then I've got, yeah, Jehanna James Brothers of the Serpent. Yeah. You do them all in person? Luke Caverns is a good friend of mine.

Yeah, it was just a good, good person. Yeah, I do them all in person. Yeah, the one, I mean, I've done one who's Ralph Ellis, who he's in, he's in. Timberchette. Timberchette, yeah, the congressman. That's the congress. He came in and did a podcast? Dude, he came on and he dropped some bombs too, man.

Really? Yeah, he's like, it's a cover up. He's like, it is a, this UFO thing is a cover up. No way. Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah, he's cool, man. I bet he's got like, you know, I mean, it's like a 40-minute episode. How long ago did you do him?

That was three months ago? Yeah, about three months ago. Yeah. No way. Yep, yep. Yeah, George Howard. You talked to George Howard. Yeah, George was in here a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, yeah. A couple months ago. Yeah, yeah. Great dude. Yeah, it was great getting to know George. So what is the deal with this Tim Burchett guy? So he's a congressman where? He's pushing for disclosure.

I mean, Tennessee is where he's in Tennessee. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. So there was like a, I don't know if I'm going to get this right, but I remember there was some sort of bill that was going through. And basically in that bill, they were giving protection. to those private aerospace defense contractors to where they could keep their secrets

and they wouldn't have to disclose anything. Right, right, right. And there was two other congressmen that were from Ohio that were like supporting those... The Turner people, I think. Yeah, Mike Turner and somebody else. Yeah. And those guys were in Ohio right next to where

Wright-Patterson Air Force is. Right, they're getting supported by the companies. Yeah, the biggest private defense contractors there are. Exactly. Yeah. So what was his... what was his what did you have to say about like Tim yeah about like specifically about the whole disclosure thing in these private companies I mean he's just he just he just he just wants the truth

you know he's like he's like where is the where are the tax dollars going like what are we spending money on like why can't we why can't there be why do we need the secrecy you know if there but then he he'll go into a skiff like a private meeting he's been into a couple of those two three of those and they'll tell him stuff and it's like stuff that he already knew But they'll tell him stuff just so that he can't talk about it anymore. So now he's like getting, he's like frustrated and like, now I can't talk about this because it's like, you know, it's, I was told it in a secret compartmentalized information. Exactly. So they're messing with them, man. They're, they're really, yeah, it's interesting in the situation.

The UFO topic is so frustrating. Like it's so frustrating. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. It's just packed with misinformation and disinformation and limited hangouts. And it's just like it's made. it's purposely, I think it's on purpose made to be confusing to the public. Yeah. You know, they're using like Twitter and YouTube

and all these social media platforms to get people on various sides of things like throwing every single possible theory you could throw into it. And then people will defend that. You know, they'll die on any hill to defend their crazy UFO theory. Yep. And it just turns into a shit show on Twitter. Yep.

Where it's just like you don't even want to pay attention to it anymore. Right. And I think that might be on purpose. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, you got to get Tim Hogan on, though, man. Knights Templar, dude, that would blow. Oh, God. So he's a, he's a, he's the grandmaster of the Knights Templar.

The Grandmaster of the Knights Templar. Yeah, so he's like the top guy of the Knights Templar. Knights Templar is this group of people that's like, I won't get it. It's too much to, you got to talk to Timber. Give me the elevator pitch. I mean, the elevator pitch is that he, he, He says that the Knights Templar are in possession of the bones of Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Mary Magdalene, and their combined children. And he says that he has all of these artifacts from when the Knights Templar were working for the Roman Catholic Church in like the 10th century, AD.

And he's got the arcs of the covenant. And he says there wasn't just one arc that there were possibly a couple of hundred arcs and that he has 10 of them, six of them. You show you proof? No, he didn't show any proof. No, no proof. But he says that he's going to disclose it. He says that he's waiting for the world to be ready for this. I would have loved to see some pictures, right?

But he says that within the next five years, he's going to disclose this information and release the information. I pushed him to get it done sooner than that, you know, to really, like five years is never going to happen to him. But he says that that's what he has. And it's hard to even tell you what he said about the skeleton. because you know you lose like 85% of the audience. He said that the skeletons of Jesus and John the Baptist had elongated skulls. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so what is he saying? He's saying that Jesus was an alien? He's saying, yeah, yeah. I haven't heard that one before. That's a new one. I know, yeah, yeah. I asked him to trade a couple of Jesus' bones for a couple vases,

but he was not gained for, unfortunately. but, but, yeah, but I mean, this is, I mean, hey, big, big if, too. That sounds like an incredible podcast, man. It was an incredible podcast, yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah. Wow. And the Kirk Cobain thing was pretty dope, too. I mean, like, that's Tom Grant, who was the private investigator.

He's another guy you could talk to. I mean, he was the private investigator that Courtney Love hired to investigate her missing husband, Kirk Cobain. Oh, no way. Yeah, and Tom is convinced that Courtney had him murdered. that Kirk Cobain was murdered. And there's a lot of evidence that, you know, that it's that it wasn't just cut and dry suicide. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, not that, you know, I'm not going to, you know, come out and say what, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. But there's a lot of evidence that it was not suicide. And, you know, the suicide notes. And, like, there was an incident in Rome the month before where, you know, it was like he overdosed.

And Courtney was saying that that was a suicide attempt after he died. She didn't say it was nobody, it was just an accident until he died. Then Courtney's like, yeah, she filed a missing person's report under the name of Kurt's mother saying that Kurt was suicidal. So like she was like putting all this like suicide stuff out about him. There's a guy that said that, that Courtney offered him $50,000 to have Kurt Cobain murdered. I mean, there's there's there's some that it's a, it's a and the suicide note itself, you know, know there's questions about was that actually a suicide note that they found at the scene. They ruled it as suicide the same day, like the exact same day that they showed up and found the body, they said suicide.

Like somebody, some reporter came on and said to the media that was there, we found a body and we found a suicide note. So at that point, you know, suicide, suicide, suicide. So it was all over the world. Suicide occurred. And they couldn't, they couldn't take it back. They never did an investigation. The body was was cremated. Courtney had the greenhouse that he was found dead in, just burnt to the ground. She had the shotgun, you know, apparently there's conflicting stories about what she did with the shotgun, but melted down potentially. Yeah, it's a pretty fascinating story, actually. And I got a follow-up interview with Tom coming up because there's been so much questions

that we didn't even have, you know, three hours later, we didn't even have time to get into. Wow. He lives around here? No, he's in California. California. Yeah. That's fascinating. That's a story that I don't know shit about.

I would have to learn about that. But that is really interesting, man. Suicides. A lot of people getting suicided lately. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, she had a bandmate that actually died of an overdose as well. You know, a supposed overdose a month after Kurt died.

And it was her bass player. And there was, like, rumors that she was like, you know, that she had this diary and that she was like with Kurt. And like, yeah. So that was shoot. Yeah, that was a, that was a suspect kind of a death as well. So yeah, man, a lot of interesting, a lot of interesting things to explore, as you know, which is why I love your podcast so much. Yeah, yeah, you're, I love the artwork that you use on your podcast. It's pretty incredible. The thumbnails are nuts. Dude, that was something that somebody internally, one of our artists that does like exclusive brands for us that creates art for our private label brands. Oh, really? He's just, yeah, we have like four brilliant artists that work for us. That's incredible. Yeah, I'm just like, dude, can you draw like, you know, like, get me some like a, you know, the UFO and a, in a hollow moon. And he just drew this.

The guy who made the Bell's logo made this. No, no, no. Oh, okay. No, no. No, no. Bell's logo is like, yeah. That's a set real. You're going with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but one of our local artists. I was going to say, this guy's got, this guy's talented, man. Yeah, he's got a wide range of skills. Super, super talented. He can do any style. Yeah. Shout out to Craig.

Yeah. He's awesome. Dude, that's so sick. Yeah. There's another guy who's in St. Pete, who I had on a couple of years ago, who was the, I don't know if you're into like WWE or ever watched WWE. Not in a long time. Or if you were listening to Jimmy Hendricks. Oh, yeah.

This guy was the guy who designed all Jimmy Henders clothing. Okay. And he also designed all like the clothing for macho man, Randy Savage, and all like the famous wrestlers. And he lives right down in St. Pete. He's like this hippie dude. He tells all these crazy stories about hanging out with Jimmy Hendricks. That's cool. That's cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool, man. Thanks for coming on and doing this and bringing all these vases. This is astonishing to see all this shit and to hold it. This is like a once in a lifetime opportunity. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this. Man, this is really incredible stuff.

What do you plan on doing next? Like with all these vases or are there any sort of, tests you're going to put them through or anything you have like planned for the future with this stuff so yeah i mean i want to keep you know i want to keep scanning obviously and i want to keep measuring to to try to figure out you know is there is there something to this royal cubit subunit question and you know i want to want to just continue down that path i eventually want to get to the point where i'm i'm analyzing the inside of it to see if there's any residue left over from whatever the tools were but ultimately the end goal is to, you know, get, build some awareness about this topic so that we can get some

pressure on the museums to have the museum pieces scanned. And then I can quit, you know, I can be like, all right, just turn it over to the, you know, you to flip that and make a little bit of maybe make a profit. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm, you know, I've planned on keeping these for life, you know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and just, you know, give them to my kids one day, hopefully. But, you know, I mean, it's one thing, like, like, like rock doesn't, you know, go bad. Like these are, you know, Like we were talking last night, you know, I mean, you could own some Tesla stock or you could own, you know, rocks. You know, like you could own stuff that's going to. I choose the rocks.

I choose the rocks, too. So, so that's the plan, you know. There's been a lot of requests for 3D prints of these because, you know, people have, um, the 3D prints are freaking awesome, you know. So, so I printed 150 for the, for George Howard at the Cosmic Summit. That right there is a 3D print, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so I don't know.

I don't want people to, I don't, like, it would be the easiest thing in the world to stand up a website and to sell these to people, but I don't want people to think like that's why I'm, you know, it would also be a huge pain in the ass, candidly to, like, keep up with the volume and to like, to try to, like, create a business. So, yeah, I'm fighting that. Like, I don't want to, like, go that route, but I know there's so much interest in purchasing these things that, like, I don't know, maybe one day, you know, maybe one day that'll be something that I'd consider doing, but it's just, it's just too much. right now to even to even think about so um i don't really have you know i don't i don't want it to look like i'm like trying to monetize this because literally all i'm trying to do is is get some answers for people about you know and myself because i think it's a super interesting topic about like you know what is our history like what's the true history a how were these made what were the tools that were used to make these things um you know and and b when were they made you know like how and how and when were these things made and and i think that that could give us a

some better insight into our true history. I mean, we know, I won't even get into, you know, the 12,000 year ago Younger Dryas event. But, I mean, that's a major cataclysm where, like, something happened. I mean, like, we know we've got, like, the black mat layer. We've got, like, that's where George has done incredible work on that with the comment research group. And, you know, you got the extinction of all the megafauna happening at the same time. You got meltwater pulse A, 12,800 years ago.

You got meltwater pulse B, 11,600. hundred years ago. You got these dramatic climate changes. There's evidence that like 10% of the Earth's biomass was on fire, 1012% of the Earth's biomass, you know. You got Darren Kuyu where people were digging underground, you know, potentially that could be that old to when people were trying to survive some, you know, major whatever pole, magnetic pole shift or, you know, impact where we're just the conditions above ground were not survivable. So, you know, I mean, there's, there's questions like, like, was that the, you know, the, you know, It was obviously a worldwide global extinction event.

The only question is, were humans civilized at that point in time? And if they were, these things could be really freaking old, man. You know, I mean, these things could be really freaking old. So if they weren't, then if it was just, you know, hunter-gatherer, as the traditional, you know, mainstream kind of explanation is, you know, it's like, well, how was Quebec Leitepe built by a bunch of hunter-gatherers? Yeah, so, so, you know, I find it interesting and just hope to be able to clarify some of that, you know, some of the story of our ancient history through some of this research. And I won't ever be able to prove it by these because, you know, no matter how much I do on these, people could always say, it's, you know, it's a modern reproduction.

But I think by putting enough pressure and building some interest in this topic that we could get some museum pieces. I would love to see some skeptics get their hands on these. Not skeptics. I mean experts. Like people like Flint Dibble, I would like to see him actually look at these things. And I know he's not an engineer. But it would be cool to have some sort of intellectual roundtable of people who can cover all of these disciplines to like sit here and look at these things and talk about them. I think that needs to happen.

A conversation instead of just an argument. Right. Right. Exactly. Are you making the scans available for folks? I'm making the reports available for folks. I've got the scans available for a couple of these. So the scans I haven't put out there yet because I just, I mean, the measurements, everything's

available for people to read. But I guess I'm just a little hesitant to, like, have the rest of the world be able to, like, 3D print these and start their own business and, you know, just, like, create replicas of these, like, all over the place and just, yeah. That's true. I mean, yeah, it's kind of, you know, that's really literally the only reason. But, but, you know, what I'm thinking about doing is, is creating versions of these that are watermarked with like, you know, some, you know, some stamped with something that, you know, but people can take that off and manipulate it. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. But, no, I'm not opposed to, you know, ultimately making even the scan files available. I just think that the measurements are, you know, they're really telling in terms of, you know, the accuracy of these things. Yeah, I think it's definitely a smoke, the number one smoking gun for some sort of super advanced ancient civilization that we don't know about. Yep, yep. Yeah, but like this scan file's available. This scan file's available on Uncharted X.

Oh, cool. Yeah, so, I mean, you can go on there and download these and print them up if you want to. Okay. Or do whatever you want to do with them. So, yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, if there is some ancient civilization, like if that was a thing, then this is the best evidence that we could possibly have for it. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, this in the pyramids, man. Yeah, I think, I mean, these need to be added to one of the wonders of the world because it's just as unexplainable as those 20-ton megalithic pieces of granite that are sitting up 600 feet in the air in the air. pyramid in the king chamber. Right, right. Yeah. Just at like a minute scale. Like again, I cannot get over this tiny little vase. Yeah.

It's so insane. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And then you, I mean, you got rock crystal, you know? Yeah. I mean, you got like... That's quartz. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think it's same. But, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man, all different shapes and sizes. You never see two alike. It's one of those, you know, it's one of those big mysteries for sure that hopefully by you. by you doing this show and by, you know, getting the word out there,

people start talking about this and we can hopefully get some answers to it. Hell yeah, man. Where can people get a hold of you? Where can they find your podcast and all that stuff? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just Matt Bell limitless on YouTube, but I'm on Spotify, you know, or whatever as well. But I'm trying to build that YouTube channel up. So yeah, I appreciate all the subscribers.

And, you know, I'm on X as well. Matt being limitless on X is the handle there. So, yeah, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. Cool, dude. Thank you so much for your time and coming out here and bringing all of these amazing artifacts for all of us to enjoy. Hell yeah, man, I can't thank you enough for having me. This is like seriously. My pleasure, dude. One of the coolest experiences ever.

So, yeah, you got an incredible show here. I've admired it for a long time. And I know you're like right down the street. So it's like, why? Yeah, it's awesome. We're neighbors. Yeah, exactly. So why not? Yeah, no, I really appreciate you having me. Yeah, super cool. Yeah, we'll do it again. Yep. All right. Goodbye, everybody.

All right.