Danny Jones Podcast - #28 - The Success Story of the 'Kutcher Brothers’ | Michael Kutcher

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

Michael Kutcher, who's fraternal twin brother is Ashton Kutcher, faced the first of several life-threatening medical conditions before he took his first breath. Kutcher was diagnosed with cerebral palsy before entering kindergarten and later underwent a heart transplant.  He works with Reaching for the Stars, A Foundation of Hope for Children with Cerebral Palsy and the Be the Gift donor registration campaign as an advocate and public speaker. Follow Michael here: http://michaelkutcher.com https://twitter.com/mkutch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's Coochard like Butcher. Coocher like Butcher. Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on today. And it's good to be in sunny Florida and not in freezing Denver, Colorado. Who I am in my story.

My name is Michael Coucher. You know, my, I guess where I kind of come into my story is really about and what my story is really all about is overcoming. obstacles. It's persevering through life. You know, I often talk to people about knowing their purpose in life. And I know that that's kind of a big, big question, right, of what's your purpose in life? But I've been through certain obstacles and challenges in my life. They've led me to my purpose. and, you know, I don't think that a lot of people understand their purpose at all, but I've been fortunate enough to go through challenges and obstacles throughout my life.

They have led me to a purpose of really inspiring people and kind of having a greater appreciation for life, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that's, it's, you know, we all have our stories, right? We all have our obstacles and challenges to overcome. But I've found a unique way to kind of turn that into an inspirational story for others. And hopefully it just inspires people and gives people hope. It really kind of my story covers, and we'll get into this, but my story covers really kind of two realms of overcoming obstacles.

One is persevering through a disability where, you know, I go back to kind of how I'm channeling my story to others is the disability community really kind of needs a voice, I feel, about overcoming obstacles and challenges. And I found that I can be that voice or I want to be that voice. The other is around the just the overall appreciation for life. really more centered around organ donation and how that affected my life as well. So you were the benefited from an organ donor when you were very young. Mm-hmm. Can you explain what led up to that? Like you were very young, like 13 years old, right?

Yep. Yeah. So it's really an odd story. One that, you know, I try to put in real terms for people. and understanding that, hey, listen, like, this wasn't due to a birth defect. This wasn't due to a traumatic issue that I had growing up. Let's start from the beginning. Sure.

Let's tell it. Let's start from the beginning leading up to that. So explain to the audience the story of you being born. You were a twin. So I was born a twin. Actually, my parents didn't even know that they're going to have twins. Until about... The whole time they didn't tell...

No, no, until about two hours before birth. Wow. So talking about like a surprising moment, unexpected moment for my parents. I mean, you have a child. Yeah, I just had a child. I can't imagine. I mean, could you imagine the doctor walking into the delivery room saying, hey, Danny, guess what?

We noticed there's two babies. Yeah, I can't even imagine. I can't imagine having the one child I have now and multiplying that by two. Yeah, you'd be going nuts, right? So it started out that way to where I was the quote-unquote unexpected twin. Okay. And my brother was born. My brother was born very healthy and, you know, weighing the average size, I think he weighed like 7.9 pounds, 8 pounds, healthy baby boy.

When I was born, I weighed about 4.6 pounds. Yeah. Half size. and I was almost a preemie, really. I'm not breathing when I was born. And then I, you know, started to lose weight. I had to be rushed to the NIC unit. Read my last rights because they didn't know if I would survive.

But, you know, I kept fighting. And about a month later, I was able to go home to my family. So you stay there for a month when you... Yep, stay there in the NIC. unit receiving oxygen and just gaining my weight you know i would slip to like three pounds and then i think it like five five and a half pounds you can officially go home um so i was sent home after a month and uh you know is this growing up just you know i was my mom was raising three kids at this point two twins and then a three year old um and then we're sister right yeah she's three years old

okay she was three years old um and you know at about the age of three my mom just realized that you know michael's not developing the same that you know chris and tasha uh my brother and sister and she she was very in tune with what was going on with us kids at home um and she raised some concerns with physicians and area education specialists. Come to find out my mom actually diagnosed me with a disability, with cerebral palsy when I was three years old. Your mom did. My mom did.

Yeah. Well, I credit it to my mom just because she was so in tune with what was going on, right? And every time she would go to the physician, he would say, well, he'll catch up, right? just he'll catch up, he'll catch up. My mom's a bulldog on some things, and she just won't give up, and she didn't give up to me any answers. And then as they took a closer look, they realized that I had developed cerebral palsy, and they don't know where I developed it, and really that's a,

that's kind of an issue within that, within cerebral palsy itself, is the understanding of, really what causes CP. It can be a number of reasons. But the cerebral palsy is the leading motor disability amongst children today. Okay, I didn't even know that. Yeah, yeah.

So it's pretty prevalent. And it's kind of this, you know, it's a motor disability. So it comes in all shapes and sizes and forms, severity. I have a very mild form of cerebral palsy. So, you know, I've got the eyesight issues. I've got hearing issues.

I slur my speech a little bit. My right side's a little bit weaker than my left. But if I'm walking down the street or even if someone's listening to this podcast here, they're not going to probably think that I have a disability, right? But then you've got other severities where you've got people in, you know, in wheelchairs. And you've got, yeah, it's a wide range because it's interesting because when a diagnosis, there really is no kind of aha moment of, oh, yeah, he definitely has cerebral pals. It's kind of a, they take a bucket, right? So like, oh, well, you've got all the classic signs.

We're just going to put you in this bucket over here. where you could have autism as well and cerebral palsy. So, yeah, I mean, long story short, at three years old, my mom diagnosed me with having a disability. What age do they typically diagnose cerebral palsy? Well, they're starting to find out that and look into ways that they can diagnose it earlier at the infancy stage. even in the womb they're looking at ways that they might be able to

diagnose. They don't really know like I said what causes it. Sometimes when babies extracted at birth you know there can be some cerebral damage that could cause it they believe that I was

due to being born at such a low birth weight they feel that I was giving too much oxygen during birth that led to, you know, some cerebral damage or issues. But there's really no real, real kind of thought around the cause. There's multiple causes, I guess.

To answer your question, typically it's around three years old. Two, three years old that the kids were diagnosed when they start seeing obvious signs of this. But back in 1978, you know, it wasn't as widely known. And physicians, like I said, just kind of passed it off as it was something that the child would overcome. Right. Your brother was born twice the weight of you. I mean, obviously they think that that has something to do with, you know, your development because obviously something happened in the womb.

You guys were sharing the same womb. Maybe he got more nutrients than you did or something. Nothing like that happened. And at three years old, when your mom diagnosed you, what changed when she diagnosed you from leading up to that point? Yeah. You know, I often talk and say that nothing changed. Okay. At least not in my family.

You know, we were middle class Iowa family, right? where, you know, at that point my dad was, you know, I think he was working at a packing plant at that point. And my mom was doing some stuff with area education teaching and also, you know, raising three kids at home. But what's very awesome and unique, well, I wouldn't say unique. What's special about my family is that even though I was born with a disability, and diagnosed with that disability at three years old, they didn't treat me any different than they did Tasha and Chris. There was no, it was all about inclusion in my household,

which is great because it made me thrive, it made me, it challenged me to do things. I recall many times doing physical therapy with my siblings. There's one, like one of the things, with physical therapies. I would have two or three dishes laid out and I would take jelly beans and move them from one dish to another

trying to like help the dexterity my fingers because my right side and my right hand has less dexterity than my left. And Chris was there doing the same thing with me but he thought that we were just doing a game. He just thought that we were just playing around. But little did he know it was actually my physical therapy that he was joining in on. Right.

So my mom was. Chris is your brother? Chris is my brother, right. Okay. Right. And so my mom was just very inclusive with the whole family. And that said a lot about how, you know, kind of I was treated growing up, at least inside the family and with friends and peers.

And it also kind of gave my siblings the understanding of, you know, working with someone with a disability and how you treat other individuals. So, you know, it was, I'm forever grateful for my parents for giving me that kind of, that challenge throughout my life

and not, treating me as if I needed special treatment or, or, you know, they needed to cater to me. Things were normal. In fact, when I was going through kindergarten and going in first grade, the elementary school wanted to hold me back, right? Because they're just, you know, kids get held back for a grade, right? And my mom said absolutely not. She said, Michael will go through the education program with, you know, alongside his brother every step of the way. And that, they just challenged me more.

And you did? Did you go to school with your brother the whole way? I did. Really? The whole way. Yeah, we were in the same kindergarten class. But after that, they start to separate you. Oh, really?

So, yeah. So we were in different classes, you know, growing up all the way through. But, yeah, we graduated high school together. Yeah, I mean, we're going through the same grades. sometimes, unfortunately, wearing the same clothes. Mom wanted to be, well, yeah, she wanted to be matchy, matchy. But, you know, it's, it, I don't think that my life would turn out the way it has today without my brother. Because I talk about inclusion in the household and how great the household was.

But when you step outside the household and outside those family dynamics, society has a whole different view for you, right? And it's a whole different approach. And I often talk about the playground. And, you know, we've always heard the phrase that the playground is the cruelest place for kids. Yeah, kids can be shitheads. And it is. I mean, it's just complete shith heads.

It's, you know, I think I've been called every name in the book, every kind of disability name. And it's hurtful, especially at that age. you don't know how to deal with it, and you don't know how to internalize it. You don't realize that these kids are just, they don't know any better because they haven't been taught the right things at home, right? But me on the playground was a little bit different

because he was there with me. And, I mean, he would literally, like, take fights for me and stand up for me. Yeah, I mean, he's, he's, in some respects, my big brother, right? And he took on that role for me. They really, you know, gave me an insight of how a society really is with people with disabilities.

And I've got a mild disability. Right. Right. Right. And people that were picking on me probably just didn't even know I actually had a disability, like a named disability. they probably just thought that I had thick glasses or needed hearing aids and it like I said just gave me more perception on how life was going to be growing up

in a societal way in a societal view and as I did grow up I think that they really kind of suppressed my comfort with having a disability. I hid my disability for years and wasn't... Didn't talk about it. Didn't talk about it. Didn't acknowledge it. No one asked. Because I was really internalized it.

I was really afraid of, you know, what would my friends think? What would my employer think when I started working? Would they treat me differently? trying to build a relationship with a woman. How is that going to work? Who's going to accept that? So I really kind of held that in for a number of years. And you had a heart transplant, right?

I did. And how old were you when that happened? And why did they have to do that? Yeah, I was 13. So once again going back, it had nothing to do with developing cerebral palsy, nothing to do with being underweight at birth. I'd like to say that, you know, in a joking way, I just got dealt a different set of cards, you know,

than maybe even, you know, my twin did. And that's okay with me. I'm cool with that. I'm glad that happened that way. At age 13, I just got sick. I mean, I thought I had the flu. Um, it was around Thanksgiving time. So I was off school. Uh, and I was home for about, you know, about a week.

Um, and, you know, didn't really go to the doctor because what's the doctor going to tell you? Like, you have viral, you know, it's viral. Go home. Don't worry about it. And, um, in some respect, I'm glad I didn't go to the doctor so early because they would have kind of passed up the signs that I thought that actually. that actually were critical. And so after a week when, you know, I wasn't getting better, my mom finally took me to an area hospital where they realized that I was,

you know, severely dehydrated, but also through an x-ray, they realized that my heart was four times the size of a normal heart. Wow. So it was enlarged. And they had no idea why. I'd later, you know, see a cardiologist, and it was then determined that I had a viral, what they call myocarditis, viral inflammation of the heart. And, you know, it was that cardiologist recommendation that I have a heart transplant.

So, yeah, it was pretty. pretty alarming i guess point in my life uh scary uh but at 13 years old you how do you process that when you're a 13 year old you don't i mean you don't um or at least i didn't um i didn't know what was going on um i just thought that you know it would be a quick process and it would be like getting your appendix out. Really, I remember asking the cardiologist how long I'd be out of school. Oh, really? Right?

And how much ice cream drug I'd eat, right? Like, it just wasn't, I didn't understand the severity of it. And it didn't take long for me to quickly understand when someone asked, you know, how much time I would have. and I kind of had to think and process them for a moment and realize what they're talking about. You know? How long you would have to live? Yeah.

And right, how long would my current heart have to survive? And he told me three to four weeks. So, I mean, here I am three to four weeks to live 13 years old. there's a lot that goes through your mind. They need to find somebody to donate a heart to you, right? It's not like, okay, sure, we'll schedule you for next week. They have to, I mean, there's obviously like a waiting list to get organ transplants, right? Yeah, there is.

And I don't know, it was like back then compared to what it's like now, but. Yeah, it wasn't as prevalent. I mean, the first heart transplant, I think, was in 1969. I was number 50 at the University of Iowa Hospital. So it's a fairly new procedure. And you're right. I mean, they've got to find when they look for a donor, it's got to be the right match of tissue size, blood type.

So it's got to be an ideal match. And when I was first diagnosed, I went through several tests. And when I went to a larger hospital, they thought that they could, you know, care me, and they thought that they could decrease the inflammation of the heart, and I wouldn't need a transplant. Okay.

So here I am with a great medical team at the University of Iowa Hospital and clinics, and they're trying their best to assist me, but just as the first cardiologist had predicted, about three to four weeks later, I would just slip into cardiac arrest. And at this point, remember, the hospital doesn't think that I need a heart transplant, the larger medical hospital.

So I wasn't even put on the list. So here I am in cardiac arrest, and I'm not even put on the transplant list yet. It wasn't until I went into cardiac arrest that I was put under the transatlantic rest. that I was put under the transplant list. How long it would take them to find somebody with a heart? Yeah.

I don't know what that could have been like. Right. I mean, people wait for years. Right. You know, people wait for a long time. You had less than three weeks? I had less than three weeks, and now I've got less than 48 hours. Once you went into cardiac arrest.

Yeah. Once I went to cardiac arrest, they determined that, you know, my parents really had two choices. They could either put me on a ventricle pump, which would cycle my blood, kind of artificial heart for me, or they could say their goodbyes at that point. Because they didn't feel, physicians didn't feel that if I went through another cardiac arrest that I would survive. And my parents, you know, took the window of the ventricle pump, But back then the ventricle pump, your heart tissue would start to die if it wasn't actually pumping itself. Because it's a muscle, right?

Right. So you're only really, the heart tissue dies after about 48 hours. So really, I've only got a 40-hour. Yeah. So I've only got like 40-hour window on this ventricle pump. at this point I'm I'm out of it right I'm so drugged up more morphine is a great thing yeah yeah it's a great thing um but yeah it was a very difficult time I mean my think about I mean my parents are faced with this the same thing they faced 13 years ago right bringing the chaplain in reading the last

rights I mean I um yeah I mean, you've got a son now. I mean, I've got kids. Could you imagine how much harder it, how hard it was for your parents, let alone you? I can't, right? There's some of the strongest people I know

to be able to persevere through, through this. And that's where I get the most of my strength, you know, is through my family and looking at the obstacles that we've been through. And I was, we were just fortunate.

enough, you know, by the grace of God, that a match was found, you know, within 24 hours. So, yeah, so I only, I only literally waited on the transplant list for about 24 hours. So I was, you know, I always joke that it was, I was number one in the country. Probably the only time they'll ever be

number one in the nation. But, yeah, but yeah, I mean, my severity was so high. I was so sick. That was, I was number one. So they found the ideal individual and a match was made. And it's interesting that we, we sit here today in Tampa, Florida, right? That's wild.

Because my match, my donor actually came from, from why I'm told, I came from the Tampa Bay Area. Really? Yeah. So it's like a homecoming for me. Home is where the heart is, right? Exactly. Something like that.

I like that. I'll use that. Yeah. So your parents, within 24 hours, they were jumping for joy, so to speak, because they found a, they found a match for you. And then you underwent the operation, right? So how long did the operation take for you to get a new heart? I think it took about eight to ten hours. Eight to ten hours.

Yeah. And, yeah, once again, I can't imagine what my parents are going through and my siblings and and, you know, I'd never want to be putting that type of place. But yeah, I mean, it took about eight, ten hours, and took the old out, put the new in, and, you know, I've been blessed. Yeah. I truly have. I heard when you get the new heart, you sort of develop some of the intuitions that the previous owner of that organ had.

Is that true? I mean, there's been studies and books about it, right? Well, it's a little hard because, A, I don't know a lot about my donor. Okay.

But B, I was only 13 years old. And so the habits, yeah, well, and the habits that I built, I attribute that those are, those are my habits,

right? This is the way I am. Right. I'm too young to know. Yeah. Yeah, or even to have developed my own intuitions. but my donor was a female.

So, you know, I don't know whether it's just the circumstances I've been through, the obstacles I've been through. Or it's, yeah. You know, people say females are more emotional. Yeah. Yeah. I find myself, you know, watching a sad TV program or like even like just thinking of something like, Like sad and I just get tearyed. You like watching The Notebook?

Oh, I can't watch that. I can't deal with the notebook. I mean, it's such a good show, but, you know, I know my fiancé probably probably laugh at me because A talking about it chick flicks, but no, I mean, I, sometimes I'll watch, you know, a video on like YouTube. I watched recently there was a video that ESPN put out about this this high school, I think it was high school or middle school kid in Iowa with cerebral palsy and he was wrestling an opponent

and yeah he beat him. It was the first time that he ever won a match in his wrestling career and not only am I proud that he's an Iowaan but And, yeah, he just demonstrated a number of things about, like, his perseverance and his passion, but also about the sportsmanship and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, world to, to, to allow him to experience that, that joy in that moment. And, and it just stuff like that, like, tear me into, like, a tailspin to where I need a Kleenex.

Really? But that's not a bad thing necessarily. No, it's not. And, you know, when we open this podcast, at least it's not, it's not a bad side effect. No. That's the worst side effect of a new heart, then. Exactly.

You're doing pretty good. And, you know, when we open up this conversation, you told me to kind of talk about my story. And, you know, one of the things I mentioned was my appreciation for life. And when you go through that type of, of experience of having 24 hours to live, you do look at life differently. And, you know, if a video makes me tear up, then so be it, right? I don't care, right?

There's worse things in this world to worry about. And it gives you a different perspective on appreciation, on life itself. on the people in your life and really what you're concerned with and maybe what you're should be so concerned with

so it's definitely giving me a new kind of a new new lease on life yeah you're sure so after you got the heart transplant you obviously took a while for that to heal up and for you to get back on your feet

what happened after that Yeah, I mean, life just goes on, right? I mean, obviously there's things that I have to worry about. Diet, health, can't go play football, right? I mean, we've just broken open the breastbone, had a major surgery. But, you know, there's worse things. There's more important things in my life at that point than worrying about playing football or context sports. or whether I can eat pizza or salty foods.

You know, I'm just grateful to wake up every day. You know, I went through school and I had a great, amazing support group through school and through my family and friends. And, you know, I just started living life as a normal teenage kid doing the normal stupid stuff. a teenage kid does and you know having the sibling rivalries and try to find your own individual path right it was it was difficult being a twin you know as his mom kind of mold you mom and dad kind of mold you together as as one it was always chris and mike chris and mike right yeah it's like uh you know why is he always have to be first right like it be mike and chris

um so it's you know we did start to see you know we did start to see kind of individual lives and paths start. And then something was kind of crazy happened when we were like about 18, probably about 19 years old or sophomore year, I had went to a small Catholic college in my hometown and worked in the banking community growing up and stayed close. home my brother went to iowa city and he actually um wanted to study to be a biochemical engineer at the university of iowa yeah because he he wanted to um go into medical science as a biochemical

engineer and find cures and develop like different research around my heart ailment yeah so so that was his career path. I did not know that. At first, right? And then he, it quickly changed. It quickly changed. He, he was a sophomore in college and was noticed by a modeling scout and asked to be in a model talent show in Iowa.

I mean, of all places. Iowa, right? Modeling show in Iowa. Yeah. We've got, we have a lot of track people in Iowa. Yeah. Yeah.

And he, um, he actually kind of tussled with that kind of invite for a while. And long story short, he, he, he did the talent show. I actually won the talent show.

Oh, shit. Yeah. He went on to be, to go to New York, uh, to be in a larger, modeling talent show, ended up placing well in that talent show. And next thing I know, my brother's on billboards, modeling underwear for Calvin Klein.

Oh, my God. Yeah. So we were probably, I think, I'm still in college, you know, trying to get my higher education, right? Looking at pictures of your brother wearing tidy whiteys on billboards. Yeah, right. But, you know, good for him. He was able to travel the world and get into that. And you've been calling him Chris this whole time.

I have. Is that his real name? Well, yeah, it is. And I guess here's where we divulge the secret, right? Maybe of who I'm speaking of. My brother is born Christopher Ashton. Okay. So Ashton's his real name.

And how the story goes is he was, from what I heard how he changed the name so to speak was he was in a model agency and when the call came through to send Chris to the shoot they really they had like three or four Chris's in the in the in the agency and you know they didn't know who'd send and or at least that's the story I heard maybe it's different but he um they you know decided to the action was the better um more unique right more model i guess better model name for um so he uh the rank quicker on google yeah i guess right no one beats an a maybe um maybe those before google i don't know i don't know either but um so that that took him to uh to be known as Ash and, you know, then he, um, he always wanted to act. Did he really?

Yeah, he did. He was always in plays and, uh, even before the modeling talent shows. Yeah, yeah, he was always, uh, doing high school plays and musicals and, um, and then he, you know, I'm really proud of him because, I mean, here's one guy, and he does it to this day. When he sees something, he just goes for it. Like, I don't care how big the dream is. He just, he just takes it.

And he achieves greatness through it. And there's, yeah, there's, there's a lot to be said in that. And I think that more people need to do that, right? Who cares if your dream is, you know, more than what you think, is possible, right? If that's your dream, go for it. And he did. And he, um, you know, went to L.A.

to, to audition for, uh, a few shows and, uh, Longstery Short ended up on, on that 70s show and, yeah. Wow. Kind of. And how will be sure. I'm sure everyone knows the story after that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When he's on that 70th show. Yeah.

Around that time. So. And, you know, I really struggled with that. I mean, it's... Yeah, I mean, here you are. I mean, you're going to college, right? You're still in Iowa. And your twin brother is basically a movie star now.

Yeah. It was, and it really was kind of overnight type sensation. And, you know, there was a lot of cool things that come with that, you know. and different experiences I'm grateful to be able to experience through him but as an individual I really struggled with my own identity and trying

because now I'm not just I'm not just Chris and Mike now I'm Ashton's brother and by the way I have a name right I mean literally people would introduce me sometimes as

Ashton's brother. Right. And to me that that would be difficult to deal with. Was it? Yeah. I mean, he's my brother, right? Right. Like, like, at least introduce me with my first name first, right?

And kind of like, why is it matter who I'm related to? Right. So I struggle with that. Just finding my own identity, like who is Michael Coucher? And it was a difficult time for me, you know, in my 20s. And typically a difficult time for any 20-year-old. It is. But you have a very unique set of circumstances.

Yeah. Yeah. And believe me, I mean, there's, like I said, there's some good that come with it. There's, you know, some perks, so to speak. Oh, for sure. But, you know, I just want. wanted to find my own person. And I think that, you know, regardless of my brother,

I think that everyone struggles with that. Like, what's, what's my passion in life? What's my purpose? What do I want to stand for? You know, and what do I want to do for a career? And what do I want to do for a family and your lot? You're on, you're on this earth for a fucking reason. You've already been through so much.

There's like, you know, if I'm you, I'm like, if I'm still here, there's got to be a really important reason I'm still here. Well, that's it. I mean, like here, here I am. You know, I've, I've almost died at birth. I almost died with the heart transplant. One thing we left out is during high school, I had two other open heart surgeries. Oh, really? To remove blood clots. So. This was after the heart transplant. plant. Yeah. So here I am. I've almost literally died about four times. But I'm still here. But to your

point, like, why? Why am I still here? Yeah. Like, what is my purpose? Yeah. I got to do something with this opportunity. Yeah. And now my brother is a major celebrity. And I love my brother. You love your siblings. And family is family. And I'm, he's, he's one of my best friend. he's a great inspiration to me and role model to me and how do I utilize kind of the notoriety that I built kind of through that right um because I never wanted to deny that he you know family's family um but how do he utilize that for the greater good and to be able to give back to people you know and And those are some great lessons that my brother taught me was, you know, the gift of generosity and the gift of giving back to others and how much fulfillment you can actually receive through that.

And then I kind of fell into my purpose when I was about 30 years old. So I was, I received a phone call one day and a woman asked me to speak. get a gala, a cerebral palsy gala that she was starting a foundation for in Iowa. I remember when I was speaking earlier where I said that kind of denied that I had a disability. I still had that. But now I've got my brother, you know, kind of talking about his family life and doing different media things and, you know, it kind of creeped out. So he was talking about you?

Yeah. Okay. And our upbringing and myself having this disability. And, you know, so when this woman asked me to speak at this gala about my struggles with cerebral palsy, I was like, you know, what are you talking about? Yeah. I don't need to publicize it anymore than it's been publicized. and then she introduced

she introduced me to her daughter and we talked about different severity of CP. Yeah, exactly. And her daughter, Bella, who is five years old, who was the same age as my son at that time, you know, she had more limitations that I did.

Okay. Right. She used a gate to walk. She had trouble communicating without the use of a machine feeding tubes. And 30 years old, it was something that kind of struck me. Yeah. But here's a child that is, you know, has all these limitations. But she's amazing.

I mean, her smile just lit up her room and she was beautiful and she was so happy and so full of life. And it really was a key moment of mine where I was like, you know, I got to stop. Like guess what? Our disability is called the same thing. Right. Like why, like, why am I in the closet, so to speak, when this girl is so. happy with her disability and she has bigger limitations than you do so um that's when i realized that that that was kind of my voice and that was my um you felt like a responsibility kind of did yeah and i

felt like i could make a difference and um you know so i i spoke of that gala that was you know 12 years ago um and that was the first time i ever spoken public about the cerebral palsy about organ donation about obstacles and then i've sent over the years learned to you know build a network and build a you know a foundation around that and build my story to inspire audiences and and now I find myself being an advocate for cerebral for disabilities overall I say on the board of as an advisor for cerebral palsy foundation I have went to Washington to to advance budgets and speak about disabilities cerebral palsy in specific there's been

been some advancement over the years. And that's really due to, you know, the people that I had kind of, I won't say on my team, that I have the privilege of joining them on their crusade. And that was a found out foundation I started with called Reaching for the Stars out of Georgia. The same foundation that I spoke for at that gala. and you know we we went to Washington and we were kind of naive thinking that we would just point out the disparity in funding and that they were just it would be like an aha moment like oh hey like yeah you're right let's give them five million dollars just point out to them I'm sure they don't know about it but little did we know that as we all know today Washington's a little place cool a little bit um and and uh partisan and and um when you look at the natural institute of health the NIH and the CDC and they're funding for different disabilities within the budget

they actually line item every disability and um it would disturbing to me um that you know there were there were great causes in there spying bifida autism down syndrome right all all great causes and and the needs there for those as well but there wasn't even mentioned or a line item of cerebral palsy really yeah which um infuriated me and it wasn't because of lack of trying So what the group that I was with did was we raised awareness around it. And I'm not sure where the funding is to this date, but at least there's recognition. And they continue, the cerebral palsy foundation continues to advocate. They continue to raise awareness and be resource for. for families with cerebral palsy

because it affects so many people, you know, worldwide, you know, across our nation. And there's a large community there. But then, you know, I started to look at, you know, my work with cerebral palsy and how, you know, I'm fighting for rights and advocacy and to change societal,

views that I dealt with growing up, right? They kind of put me in that closet, so to speak. So as they start to fight and work through those and talk through those, I realized like this, this isn't just cerebral palsy. You know, cerebral palsy is what I'm affected with. And, you know, I support those initiatives. But we have to have a broader conversation around, disabilities in general.

You know, my nephew was born with autism. He's five years old. Can recite the periodic table of elements with the corresponding atomic numbers. At five years old. Wow. Some people would call that a genius. Right? For sure.

But why are we labeling people with different inabilities for versus viewing their abilities. So let me ask you this. Can you do that? Hell no. Right. Why are we saying that he has the inability to be social and sit down with you at a table?

Yeah. If we're going to do that and we're going to point him out for that, why don't we point out your inability to recite periodic table? Right. We don't. That's because we're not focused. focused on people's abilities as society, we're focused more on the mainstream, quote, unquote, norms they can't achieve.

Right. You know, I go back to Bella and the little girl that inspired me. Yeah. She may not have all the abilities that you and I have, but she had the grace ability of all, and that was to inspire me. Right. You know, same thing that my nephew does. So, so I've started to kind of.

to build that conversation and I continue to build that societal conversation around abilities and and you know I've mentioned the word disability here here quite a few times but eventually coined the phrase that I I prefer the word diffability. Difability with F's right because because we're all different who I mean who the hell wants to be the same. Right. I don't. Right.

So I'm proud of my differences. Right. And you have to embrace your differences in the abilities that you do have. And yeah, also, I mean, think about the words that kind of how disability sounds. I mean, it kind of, the prefix, this kind of has a negative connotation. Yeah. Right. I mean, the prefix alone means something.

So I just, I think that we all have differences. We all need to appreciate and celebrate our differences. And I still think the society has a ways to go in the conversation, just as much as we have a ways to go in the gender equality, in the race equality, in the LGBTQ community. But I feel like the disability community is kind of the one left out. There's so much stuff that we just, we just like to, we like to put them in little boxes so we can understand them better. You like to, to point out kind of the bigger, bigger ones.

Right. The more noticeable ones. And I think that society and changing views, you know, look at, look at that story of that YouTube of that young, wrestler that I spoke about right the um what was his name again uh he's named with Logan Logan okay um and so on my Twitter feed I threw it up there if everyone want to see it um but you know people are starting to kind of accept a little bit more um and that's kind of Logan on the mat right let's accept Logan on the wrestling mat, much like me on the playground or me in the home, but once you get to the playground, things change.

I just feel like there's always going to be more advancement than needs to occur, much like all the other communities out there, all the other, you know, how we put people in boxes with race. Yeah. Although you and I use social media as a kind of. of a way to communicate with our audiences and we're appreciated for that um you know social media is kind of divide or even though in some ways it's brought our country together and uh communities together is divided as well yeah i remember the days where you know my brother and i would go in the backyard

in the dirt pile and we would play with matchbox cars and we would build a road and and ramp matchbox cars off of a mound you know dukes a hazard all that stuff um my kids don't do that these days my kids um are on social media and snap chat instagram instagram instagram instagram instagram instagram facebook facebook facebook uh twitter and uh youtube uh it consumes them and um so i think that you know along with the appreciation of life and different things that we need to do in the appreciation of life we also need to look at the things that consume us and the things that maybe distract us like you know TV and our phones and our computers and and we need to get back to the day where we we have the ability to show all that off and we can talk to people yeah that's why i think i mean

podcasts are awesome yeah because we're we're sitting here we're having a dialogue i'm telling you about my life you're learning about my life and i hope dany i hope that you're gaining a greater appreciation for life and yeah a greater understanding for your own family that you can go home and maybe you know leum right is your son leo leo sorry that maybe you'll hug him a little bit tighter tonight, right? Because you don't know when he might get the quote-unquote flu, right? God forbid. Right.

You know, anyone goes through challenges I have. But we got to get to the point where, and it's really my purpose is to share my story and help people get to the point, even if it's just for the hour that I speak to him, They think about this stuff. Right. And they shut down the noise. And they really just are in the moment and think about life. Yeah.

Yeah, I think, at least I hope the pendulum will swing heavily the other way eventually and hopefully soon. Because, you know, you think of the short attention span of social media apps like Instagram and Twitter, just like the endless scrolling, bite-size. ADD type content and podcasting is sort of the opposite of that, right? Yeah. And thank God, you know, I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't have a social media outlet to to distribute it, right? I wouldn't have this opportunity to sit here with you for an hour and just to have a straight up one-on-one human connection with somebody.

Yeah. I mean, there's a beauty around it, right? And don't give you wrong. Social media does provide some great things to us. and it's a great outlet for people to communicate with people. But there are a lot of negative things associated with social media. And you say that you hope the pendulum is going to swing, but I'm afraid it probably won't.

I mean, it's going to get worse. And, you know, I'm raising kids that are consumed with it. And you're just, as a parent, you're going to learn with Leo, as he grows up, it's going to get worse. You know, when he's 15, 16, and you're going to have different, hopefully not worse challenges. The idea with, you know, with Snapchat and Instagram. But it really goes back to, you know, we were talking about this earlier, like how you raise your kids. And, you know, the morals and the values that you instill in them at a young age.

You know, I look at my family. I look at, you know, my brother that is doing great things. Does he have kids? He does. Yeah, so he's a five-year-old and then three-year-old. You know, I see him doing great things in the, like, the human trafficking realm. Okay. You know, so he's heavily advocates for that and he's literally saving lives through his work with Thorne.

Thorne. Thorne is the name of his foundation. And then I look at my sister who's heavily involved in the autism community. And when I go back to, you know, I look at all three of us and, you know, we're all giving back in some way or another. And you guys are making a difference. We're trying, right? And through the gift of giving to others. and our parents did something right, right? I don't know what.

But I think it just goes back to the morals and the values that they raised us with to where all three of us are trying to make a difference in doing great things. I think you guys are definitely moving the needle in the right direction with what you're doing. And there was one story I heard. I wanted to ask you about the story you told about playing basketball with your brother. Yeah. And there was an instance where you guys were playing horse or something. Yeah.

Yeah, this is early on. We were probably around 10 years old. And we were, you know, just in the backyard, in the driveway, playing basketball. And playing the game of a horse. And I was losing. And, and, um, and. Yeah, my brother went to make a trick shot and he made the trick shot using his right hand. And I mean, we play a mean game of horse, like a serious game of horse.

We're like, you're calling your shots. There's no, like, BS in anything. So, you know, he called a right-handed shot due to, you know, my limitation was cerebral. palsy, I couldn't make the shot. And, but I could make it with my left. So I made, I made the shot with my left hand. And he called me on it, you know? And he said, no, he, he didn't make the shot.

Supposed to do it with the right hand. It's supposed to do it with the right hand. So I sulked, you know, I was 10 years old. And I, you know, I had a pity party for myself. And, you know, I remember telling him, like, you know, he, he was cheating because he knew that it was difficult for me to shoot with my right hand and um you know that i had every right to shoot with my left hand and i was using my disability as a crutch you know and um at 10 years old he yeah he was more mature for his age and um he just looked at me

and he's like you know what what do you what do you do you do? and, you know, I looked up at him and, you know, he told me, he's like, listen, you got to stop this. Like, I can't, I can't make this shot for you. Mom can't make this shot for you. You're the only one that can do this. That can make this shot and overcome this obstacle. and I'm paraphrasing out, obviously, but I got the message, and I lost that game.

Didn't win a horse. In fact, he kind of kicked my ass at every sport. But that says a lot, too, that he never let you win. Oh, yeah, he had no reservation that would let me win. And, you know, I lost that game. but I won that day. I won the greatest lesson I think I've ever learned in my life and that was just that, you know, people can help you in moments.

There's no reason why people can't help you. I'm not saying that. But at the end of the day, when you've got a challenge or an obstacle or an opportunity, you're the only one that can make that shot. You're the only one that can overcome what you need to overcome in that moment. And you look at just even the little things in your life that you might think are challenges or, you know, oh, there's struggles, right? Like, I mean, Leo crying in the middle of the night, right?

Oh, do you really got to like get, brother, I've been there, right? I mean, do I really got to get up with this kid at, you know, 3 a.m. because I've only gotten two hours of sleep. But why is it a struggle? Why is it a challenge? It's not a challenge. It's your perception that it's a challenge. That's actually an opportunity.

That's an opportunity for you. to give back to your son. That's an opportunity for you to hold your son a little bit closer and bond with your son. That's not, that's not a weakness. That's not a challenge that you face. Right. And I think that that mindset is really just perception.

Right. And I point out to people when I speak to them that, like, everything that you go through day-day basis, everything you work through they're not challenges you're not it's an opportunity it's an opportunity to

either do better be better be better individual be a better human or give back to other people or learn something right my dad always told me a valuable lesson he said you know

a mistake made once It's a lesson. Same mistake made twice. It's a lesson not learned. So make mistakes. Learn from them. Take the opportunity to learn from them. Don't make twice.

Right. Don't make them twice. That was amazing. Well, I think we're running out of time. We've got to get you back soon. Dude, thank you so much. No, I appreciate the opportunity. Your story is so inspiring.

And I'm sure a lot of people can gain a lot of valuable insight from your story and what you have to tell. Your social media, where can people find you on? online. Where can people find you on your website, your Twitter? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty, pretty simple. It's Michael Coucher.com. That's Coucher, right? Coucher, Coucher, like butcher. Yeah, Michaelcutcher.com, Twitter at actually all of my social media is at M-C-C-C-H, so M-K-U-T-C-C-H. I appreciate you giving a little shout-up for that. And, you know, I hope that just inspired people through some of my posts and some my my conversations and um you know if you have the

opportunity to if i'm in your area speaking uh you know i i would love to to share my my message with your audience and uh hopefully uh you know i give podcasts like this they tell my story like this because if it just touches one person um then i've done my job That's beautiful. But there's millions more to go. Hell yeah, man. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you.