Danny Jones Podcast - #283 - Antichrist vs Exorcist Debate: Who is the REAL Christ? | Ammon Hillman & Bob Larson

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Watch this episode uncensored & ad-free on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Phd classicist Ammon Hillman debates exorcist Bob Larson on the Bible, ancient Greek & Jesus Christ. GUEST LINKS Ammon's YouTube Channel: @ladybabylon666 Bob's YouTube channel: @boblarsonexorcism Bob's website: https://boblarson.org FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Exorcism on Danny 10:43 - Ammon confronts Bob 22:00 - Aristotle turned Ammon away from God 32:32 - Christianity blocks you from Aphrodite 41:05 - Ammon's name origins 48:06 - Queen of Babylon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So are they rolling right now? I don't know. Are we rolling? Yeah. Okay, yes, we are rolling. So where, where? You were explaining to me how I could give myself to Jesus. Yes.

Is this okay? Okay. And the answer to that, and Amin knows what I'm going to say. Steve, you got me a way around it, please. It's simple faith in trust in Christ. Jesus said, if you're going to follow me, you'll have to deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me. Now, picking up the cross is an allusion to all sorts of ways of self-negation. But you have to make God's will your will.

You have to want his thoughts to be your thoughts, and to live a life pleasing to him. That's not a perfectionist journey. it's a journey of faith of the Bible talks about gradually being transformed into the image of Christ I can take a lifetime it certainly can take a lot of years or months but it means just stepping off one path

to the other path by saying what Romans 10, 9 and 10 in the Bible tells us to say says if you believe in your heart that God has raised Christ from the dead and you confess it with your mouth you will be saved

for with the heart man believes the righteousness of God with the mouth he makes confession to that truth now I've added a few colloquialisms there in it but just to make it understandable to you in basic language

Do I have to go to confession? Do I have to confess my sins to anybody? To God. Just to God. Here and now. You know what they are. I confess my sins on every podcast. I don't hide anything.

Of course you have sins. Your first sin is rejecting Christ. I don't necessarily reject Christ. Yes, you do. I don't think I reject him. It's not a... I believe Christ was a real person. Right, ma'am.

You're rejecting who he's saying. said he was. All right. So that's where... We're not talking about a malicious, malignant, evil, deliberate defiance of God. Right.

We're talking about... I'm skeptical. I'm skeptical. That's fine. That's my job to be skeptical. I'm a journalist. Then maybe this is your first step on the path to God.

Some people, it doesn't happen. necessarily in an instant. It's progressive. But they have to at least say a prayer that quantifies the possibility of who Christ is and what he claim. So if you say, and I've had many people who on their own have just gotten on their knees and said, Christ, if you are, who Christianity he says you are. If you are truly God, I need you to show that to me. I need you to prove that to me in some way. God's willing to do that. It may not happen today or tomorrow. Could happen now, but it might be a process where any number of things happen that are just God coincidences.

My skepticism comes in where people like you and you and people like you say these things that sound good, right? But all this stuff is coming from texts. If you love diving into culture and comedy, like on Danny Jones podcast, Playoff hockey is right up your alley. NHL on T&T has the best coverage, making every game feel intense and unpredictable. Playoff hockey is a different level. overtime, big hits, and no one coasts. The studio crew, with Paul Bissonette cracking jokes and Wayne Gretzky breaking things down, makes it even more fun to watch.

Every shift matters, and the personalities keep things lively. Watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on T&T, TBS, True TV, and HBO Max. And I don't know how to read the texts, and everybody says the text say something different. Not everybody says that. Certain individuals may say that. People in Christianity, in theology that subscribe or ascribe to that religion, they all say the same thing. People that are outside that religion say different things. People like Dr. Hillman say different things.

Everyone has their own interpretation of these texts. I don't know what's real. You simply say, Jesus Christ, if you are the Son of God, if you are the creator of all that exists, if you gave me the breath of life, I need you in some way to show that to me. Because I'm not ready to make what Kierkegaard called the leap of faith. Right. So I need to ask that. You need to ask God.

And see what happens. Just repeat after me. Okay. And don't say anything you don't want to say. Okay. Say Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. If you are God's son.

If you are God's son If you always existed in eternity past If you always existed in eternity past If it is true If it is true The only forgiveness of sins The only forgiveness of sins Is your death upon the cross

Is your death upon the cross? I need to know that I need to know that Show that to me Lord Show that to me Lord And I will hand you all of my sins. I will hand you all of my sins. To be forgiven.

To be forgiven. And walk a newness of life. And walk the newness of life. Now, if you had, you really meant that and you embraced Christ now, I'd love to get some water and baptize you, but I won't do that. You're not ready for that yet. Should I let him baptize? What? But that's your decision, bro.

What kind of... What's in that water? Nothing. How do you make it? My prayer. There's no chemicals in there? No, no, no, no, no. Baptismal water is simply a symbolic representation of dying to self and living to Christ.

Because the scripture says in Romans chapter 6 that we are buried with Christ and baptism in death, that as he was raised from the dead to the glory of God, His Father, we will be raised again to a new life in Christ. So it's just one of what's called the ordinances or the sacraments, depending on your theological position of the church. And through that, you express faith. So now you've put God on the spot, so to speak. if you met what you said, and now you have to be open to God working in your life, and you don't know how that's going to happen. It could be one of a million ways that God now will step in and show you

what you were made for and creative for. You have a brilliant mind. You have a quick mind. You have the ability to do incredibly great things. I'm not saying that to be facetious. I'm saying that in all honesty you are and you're

essentially a good person. I try to be. Yeah. With what tools you have. But you have to understand that the Christian life, Paul said this life that I live in my body I live by the faith of the Son of God.

for it is not me, but it is Christ within me. If Christ was not in me, I would have been dead a long time ago because the demons would have killed me, but they can't because I belong to Christ. And so what you basically do is you build these walls of protection around you and your family by faith in God. Now, that's not to say nothing bad will ever happen. sometimes bad things do happen.

Now let me ask you this. By repeating all those things you just told me, am I opening myself up to any vulnerability with demons? No, absolutely. In fact, quite... I'm protecting myself against the demons. In fact, quite the contrary. You have just served notice on the devil

that you've taken a first step toward God. Now, they have to start back and away. Not a long ways away, but they start back, uh-oh. Oh, no. Oh, no. What are we going to do now? They're scrambling. They're thinking, all right, we've got to do this. We've got to do this. We've got to do this. We've got to do this. We've got to do this. Right.

Don't worry about them. Keep your eyes on God. Just that simple. So now I can watch out for any sort of signs that I get from God. But you've got to be looking for them. Okay. You've got to be saying everyday God, I'm looking for that truth that you're real. I don't want to wax poetic here, but, you know, it might be a sunset. It would just be a beautiful day.

And you just say, wow, I'm grateful for this day, God. Whoops, when did I say that? I see. Oh, I understand. I'm thanking God for life. Right. There it is. Okay.

I understand. See what happens next? You've got my phone number. Okay. I want to ask you, if you think, based on everything you've learned about Omine and listening to the podcast. you think that he is truly possessed by a demon. Unquestionably.

Unquestionably. I can't see his face. That's the only problem because of these lights here. That's okay. Can you put some light on my face? I can't. Am I going to look like trash in this? No, you look great.

Can you show a picture of Amin on the camera? I can't see past his shirt. There we go. Go to the solo. Go to the solo on. Look, I have a glow. Oh, he looks gorgeous. Oh, my God.

If you can't get in with that, He's got a shame. Something's wrong with you, baby. He wore that shirt for me today, and he knows it. I did. Do you know who this is? You tell me. That shirt?

No, that's okay. I'm not your shirt. I mean the shirt on the outside. I'm not your tour guide. I have a question. I have a question from the devil. The devil keeps telling me, Bob. He keeps telling me, yeah, but the problem is, Bob has never read the Bible.

I tell all my seminarian students when I was teaching at a seminary. I told all of them the first day of class. I said, oh, sorry, hold on. Put that right there. Oh, is this a hearing device? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, Bob. I tell my seminary students the first day of class,

you've never read the Bible, and they all give me a dirty look, Bob. Well, I know where you're going with this. They all give me a dirty look. Well, let me go there. I'm a classical philologist. Bob, this is why the Harvard people won't come. I am a classical philosophy.

I know where you are. Watch the videos. And you have never read the Bible. Tell me what a Christ is. Okay. Okay. What is it Christ? I'm not going to tell you that. Because you don't know. No, no, no. What are you meant? What is it Christ? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I did not agree. I did not know what a Christ is or what a gospel is. That's why the people at Harvard. And I will either get up and walk out of here. Okay. Why? Because cowardice. If I am possessed, you should not. Let's be respectful. Let's be respectful. No, he just...

No, we got to be nice to each other. We got to be nice. That's the only way this is going to happen. Understood. Understood. Okay. Now, let's just discuss the facts, the texts, and everything we're here to discuss. Let's not call each other names or be rude.

Thank you, Danny. Okay, is that okay, Bob? I was thinking, as I stepped out of the room a moment ago, that it would be a good idea. Where are you in New Mexico? I'm in... I'm in Taos, New Mexico. Of course.

Of course, why not? The New Age capital of New Mexico. Right off of, no, no, no, no. I'm not into any hippie stuff. I can't stand hippies. Okay, okay. I've been studying Greek and the Bible for the last 35 years. That's what I want to talk about.

I know what you've done. I want to talk about the Bible. I've just, I would like to suggest that to really have a candid conversation, no cameras. you get in your car and drive down to Phoenix but that makes you look like a coward and I will be happy to spend time with you normally we ask for a donation

to help cover of my staffing of facilities Bob is flim flam but you got to be nice listen I will be happy oh God I will be happy I will be happy to provide you with a complimentary exorcism session. No, thank you.

I don't have a demon, Bob. Wait a minute. I wanted to talk about the Bible. I don't have a demon. Which would be. First of all, wait, wait, wait, wait, we have to appreciate the fact that Bob is the only one who has the balls to come in here and talk to you. Oh, that's kudos. Big balls.

No one else will do it. Nobody, Bob. And this was Harvard people. Okay. Okay. This was Harvard. Let him go. Let him go.

Well, stop. But you're not letting me talk. Don't talk. Please, go ahead. You're not letting me. You're not like, you're trying to control the agenda. So let me finish speaking, where it's just you and me and maybe a ministry associate there with me, and that we have a candid conversation about you and your life and your beliefs,

and I'm very happy to do that. But that would have to be in a setting where there's transparency and honesty, and we can have an exchange without place. to the galleries. Yes, definitely. That's a great, wonderful idea if I were demon possessed, Bob, but I'm not demon possessed. And I don't need your spiritual help. I was coming to you as one former man of God to another person who appreciates the Bible, Bob. And I just want to know, please tell me, why was Jesus arrested in a public park with a naked kid? I didn't want you around in this room when I talked with him is because you're a control freak trying to get the

upper hand on everything. So just be a human. That's the only question I'll ask you. Just talk to me. Talk to me as a human being. Just ask him, ask him kindly what your question is. Do you think it's possible? Do you think it's possible? Okay. When Jesus was arrested and gas assembly with a naked kid, screaming I'm not a child. We know what you think about. Okay. Could it be that he was actually, I'm about 30 seconds from walking out. We have to take turns. I'm and ask the question and then we have to stop and we have to let Bob give his response. That's reasonable. Okay. When Jesus Christ,

was arrested in Gassimini at 4 a.m. with a naked boy screaming, I am not a child or Lestace in Greek. Could it actually be Bob that he was kind of creep doing creepy things? Bob, the stage is yours. Are you suggesting that Christ was a profile? No, I'm saying. Are you saying that he was a profile? No, I'm saying that. The text says that Jesus Christ.

Are you saying that Christ was a profile? based upon what you think the text said. I think what he's saying is no, he doesn't believe that he's not standing his own beliefs. No, I have no argument. I'm not interested in argument. I'm saying the text. I want the real Jesus. That is intellectual dishonesty and you know it and you're not going to overpower me the way you normally do people.

It's no wonder nobody wants to talk to you. Okay. So if you are suggesting in any way, shape, or form on. any evidentiary basis that you have in your mind. Yeah. The Christ did that. There's no dialogue that we can have. I'm still willing to meet with you in private,

where there's no need for you to have to play to an audience, and no need for me to prove anything to anybody. Have you read this, Bob? Have you actually read the Bible? You're just a broken record. No, no, no, I don't want to talk about the text. You honestly don't possess the intellectual latitude to move outside of a predetermined frame of reference where you can beat your drum and I'm not going to buy into that, okay? Is that me or David?

Why are you questioning whether or not Bob has read the Bible? What do you think if there's something, if there's possible to he missed something, what do you think that is? You know, because Bob does what Bible scholars always do, and New Testament theologians, divinity degrees. They don't have access to that ground-based material. And you're referring to the original sources. To the philology. They don't have access to the text, right?

What we have here is you against the world, you against 2,000 years of church history, you against the most esteemed scholars in the world, And quite frankly, I don't think you match up. And I'm not willing to have that debate because it's a dishonest debate. What's a Christ? In my opinion. Okay.

No, I know where you're going with that. And there's no point with the translation. You're asking about this. You're asking about this. You just converted this man. Just tell me. What is it Christ? No, we didn't convert him.

What we did was to nudge him along the pathway. I just gave up. I just gave myself to Christ. I just, I just, I'm open my heart to Christ. He didn't give a measure of your life to Christ. and that is a great step to take. So Amin told me and two million people on my podcast, most of which believe what he is saying, because we have no way of discerning whether he's telling the lying or not, we have no way of

finding out reading these texts. But the way Amin described it to us, and there's millions of views on this stuff, that the word Christ in ancient Greek, the first time the word Christ was ever used in the history of humanity was for somebody that was using drugs. Okay. Well, that's the gospel according to all. Amen. No, no, not the gospel. He's talking about text earlier. That's the gospel according to him. That's what I'm saying.

All right. No, that was diabolistic. So we're going to discard the canonization of scripture, all the councils of the church that have been held throughout the ages, at great time effort and intellectual energy to go through all of these issues over and over again. And we're just going to, because of this guy, throw them out the window and say they don't matter anymore because I am the Greek scholar who knows the truth. I don't think we need to throw anything out the window. All I'm looking for, yes, we are. I'm not personally. I know you're not. But he is.

I don't think it's okay that he is. I think it's okay that he is. But I don't think he's entitled to have his position. Of course. As so are you and so am I. But my goal here is to just have a dialogue. No one's willing to have this dialogue. And I think it's freaking incredible that we're able to have.

having a dialogue. We're not having a dialogue. We're attempting to have a dialogue here. Because he is stuck like a politician on talking points and he is going to stay there and not move off of that to deal with the larger realm of church history, the Hebrew scriptures, as well as the Septuagint. Do you read the Septuagint? And so as a result of that, that he's got a couple of basic talking points and he's just going to keep throwing those out there over and over and over. Do you actually read the situation? Which is intellectually dishonest.

Do you read the body? What I would like. What I would like. I know you're going to get up and leave because you're coward. But the devil asked me to ask you. Okay. Have you actually read the septuagint? If I hear one more ad hominem argument, this is over.

What do you think you are? You want to walk out? Take the money and walk. Take it. walk. You're a coward. You don't read these texts and people just like you are afraid. The head of Dallas Theological Seminary's Greek program wouldn't come here, Bob, and sit where you are. May I ask a question? Because none of you actually reads ancient Greek. May I ask a question? Yes. It's your turn.

It's your turn. You are a self-confessed former Christian. Yes. Okay. And you were born again. definitely huh definitely okay and then at some point you walked away from that definitely yes okay now without

trying to make it sound like Greek and Hebrew had you walk away from it can you tell me what that negative epiphany was yes it was Aristotle's pure muse it was that

gene It was that genius in the Greek, which is far harder. If you studied any, you know that Greek is capacity that English can, will never achieve. We've all heard this before from you. I want to know from a personal standpoint. That's what you claim. The beauty in that body. That's what you claim as an intellectual vortex, but I want to know what the practical

decision was based on to walk away from your faith and to deny Christ to the extent to which you have. So to call it a profile. How did you get from here to here? I just want to know. Wait, what's the file doing? How did you get from your original view of Christ to the profile Christ? Oh, that took years of study. You know, I wrote in a book, Bob, the Chemical Muse that I published.

I wrote in that book that Hebrew was the original language of the Greek, I mean, of the Old Testament, just like everybody else says. Right? Just like any panel scholars would tell you. I wrote that in a book. Why? Because it was not until I actually read and read and re-read. And who worked with those sources until I realized, oh my God, this thing is not a translation. This is gorgeous, perfect Greek. And it's precise. We've heard all this before in his show. Yeah. So who published that book? The Septuagint? No, no, the book that you just referred to the Septuagin. Oh, no, no, he's talking about the chemical muse? You're talking about the chemical muse?

The book that he published? Yeah. Who published Chemical Muse? Is it McMillan? It's McMillan now, but originally it's St. James. No, what's his name? It's a saint. What was the name of the publisher?

Yeah, I'll think of it. Steve, Google it. Thomas Donne Books and St. Martin's. St. Martin's Press. St. Martin's Press. Yes. Okay. Just curious.

Why is that relevant, though? Well, it's very relevant. It's not a respected Christian publisher. It's a publisher that puts out a lot of crazy stuff out there. I wasn't trying to target a Christian audience. It was just general. There was no, and was there a theological overview board that passed off on what you wrote in the book? No.

It wasn't a theological book. No, it was a history. Is that what you're kidding? It was a history book. It was a history book on Roman pharmacy. I stand by the offer that I made. And I think it's a good offer. I'm getting a little tired of the devil staring me in the face on your shirt.

Why would you? Okay. Anyway, we're just here to let the audience learn from you guys and listen to these ideas clash. And I think this is fascinating. But we have a clash, as I've already stated you, of apostasy and a departure from the faith, very illant apostasy that is demonically based, in my opinion, and it's very difficult to have dialogue. How do you think that it's demonic based? Well, I think you're being aggressive and a little bit nasty, and that's not really lending to self-well. Is there nastiness?

You call them a coward. That wasn't nice. I just asked a practical question. He's called down. He's called down. We're asked a practical question and really didn't get an answer as to. Okay. What was your question?

I'm sir. I'll answer to again. Yeah. Leaving the Greek and the Hebrew out of it and all of that intellectual posturing. Just how, how and when? What age did you walk away for the faith? I was 21. And I was sitting in the room that I was renting with Jose, who's a veterinary student.

It was a brilliant time. And I was sitting there reading Aristotle. And I realized, oh, my God, the gorgeousness of this universe and the reason. It's so beautiful. It must be the foundation of everything. And it clicked in my head. Something classical clicked in my head. And I said, oh, I get it.

I understand the burden of sin, right? Because I was a big, I was a, you know, I was a Bible school. scholar. I was, you know, I was a student. Okay. What do you mean by that? I have a question. So you understand the burden of sin. What did you mean by that? So the beauty of the universe is in the design that it is perfect, right? And the classical world understood this and they worshipped as, I will tell you, they worshipped as a result nature and the organization and music. Remember a third of education, music.

A third of education is music. Yeah. Harmony, baby. If you don't understand what harmony is, it's because you don't worship nature. So that's what I was thinking about when I was reading Aristotle. That was an abrupt U-turn from where you were at, biologically and personally. And so. Definitely. Okay. And so you chose Socrates. You chose Greek philosophy. No, Socrates, no, I didn't. Well, no. Choccrates. I got to think about Plato. Greek philosophy and all the gods and goddesses that come. along with it and that understanding of a world view. No, I had a demon

help me there. I think I'm going to pre-identify what you're going to identify as a demon. So when I reached that point at that moment. You basically adopted a Socratic worldview. No, no, absolutely not. It was not that sophisticated. I was sitting there reading Aristotle and I realized the beauty

and harmony of the universe. The first thing I said, I've got to go get laid. And I went to a bar and I picked out the first girl that was good looking and i said you must take me home and you must fornicate and she said great i said i'm a virgin are you being facetious or truth absolutely not i just take you to the bar that i went to it's a country western bar wait wait you you talked about this in the first podcast wait wait you you had this a moment and you did what you went to a bar i understood i understood the

beauty and i realized holy mackerel i want that beauty i was a virgin bob you know how it is when you're in the church, you've got to keep that virginity going, right? Can you just stop editorializing and give us some facts here? You went to the bar. Yeah, Your Honor, I went out and I got laid because I was 21. Can you hear him? Okay. It was not, no, Aristotle. It wasn't, it was Aristotle. You went to the bar. Yes. And then you went and got laid. Yes. Okay. Fantastic. Okay. All right. Well. And then, and then was there something about your first sexual experience losing your virginity? that had something to do with this? Yeah, it didn't feel guilty.

It felt good. Okay. Let me ask you this. This is the science. Well, hold on. Were you a virgin because of your devotion? Definitely. I've listened to Jay Vernon McGee.

Do you know Jay Vernon McGee? Do I know Jay Vernon McGee? Bless his dearly departed soul. Of course I know who he was. Yeah. So you... What a man. That was a man.

Well, yes. He had a lot of theological prejudice. but that's not the issue. He was not a pervert though. That guy was straight up. Let me understand this. Yeah, go ahead. Mord again Christian.

Yeah. Loving Jesus. Yes. As I understand, admiring me and what I did. Yes. Okay, okay, okay. Let him interrogate you. Sorry, am I too?

And then. Oh, you're good. You're good. And then Aristotle's view of reality, of good and evil, of the cosmos and how it exists and why it exists turns you around you go to a bar and then get laid and it felt good

that's what you said exactly okay guilty is charged of what of apostasy that obviously but with demon or not obviously in my opinion you you turned you made a moral you turn Remember I said earlier, people don't have as much of an intellectual objection to the gospel as they have a moral objection to the gospel.

I rest my case. You had a moral objection and you decided to go down that path, which was contrary to the path that preceded you. Correct. To which you were very devoted. Oh, God. I used to bomb. I used to jerk off and get so depressed because Jesus was one. watching me get off.

And I knew it was bad, man. I knew it was bad. Did that affect you? Like, did that have a bit? Oh, yeah. Every time I was coming home from college and I looked up with a billboard and at this at this point we don't need to know about your masturbation practices. Well, he was saying that.

I think the reason he was explaining that was because he felt like he was sinning by actually going out and having sex with a woman. So he had to masturbate and he felt he said, I think he was expressed. He felt guilty of that. Okay, okay. The guilt of masturbation. So finally, you dispelled that guilt by going out and having sexual intercourse. I dispelled it all night long.

So did that make him? You sinned and you loved it. Definitely. And it's been downhill ever since. No. No, that was the beginning of my training. It's been glorious. Okay.

Okay. So your life has been better since you left Christ? Oh, God. If you can't find Aphrodite, right? Christianity blocks you from Aphrodite. Right. And that's all. part of existence, the great mother. It's why you can't worship a great mother in Christianity.

Why can't you worship it? Is that true? You can't worship a great mother? Well, you know, this could get rather interesting. I've been to Ephesus. I've seen the statues of Aphrodite, which is this goddess with multiple breasts. That's Artemis. That's Artemis, but it's also Aphrodite. No, it's not. Artemis is a virgin. Artimus is a virgin. They're basically interchangeable. No, you have Saxon. Okay. That's okay. That's a big distinction.

You can't say Artemis is a... With a pendulumate breast hanging from her. Yes. And it was in front of statues like this that the maidens were deflowered to become advocates of the goddess. I mean, there's all sorts of hideous stuff. Okay. But it's all, almost all of it, the Greeks were highly sexualized. Yes.

Right. Yeah, I think he made that pretty clear. And this is what they did. And this is what the culture was based on. and then this is what he bought into. So this part of the conversation has been helpful to me to understand. But what nationality are you? Oh, God, just a mixture.

Just all about some Dutch ancestors, some Germans, some Scottish. I thought, I don't know, people just loved, man. Dutch, German, Scott. Yeah. Is that basically it? No, supposedly there may be some native in there as well, but you know. Yeah.

Okay. Well, that's, to me, as an exorcist, consistent with what you're telling me. How so? No Scandinavian, though. Well, thank God he doesn't have the Vikings you did. Yeah. By the way, I should add you break that curse. So I think what we're talking about here in my estimation is an exorcist,

is that the currents that he has just described, was not as epiphanous in a negative sense as we might think of it. It was the end result of a process that was intergenerational and probably going back to these ancestries and there is something highly sexualized and debauchous back there that was looking for a way to work itself through. And it found a victim. and he was that victim

and unfortunately he did what he did but I would like to say I want to make one I just want to finish by saying to me the mystery of Christ is that even Amin could return to the fold and become an advocate

for the grace and the mercy of God Paul killed Christians two thieves were crucified with Jesus one repented. Oh, they were thieves. I do not. What? The thieves were crucified on both sides?

One repented, one didn't. I'm just saying that I marvel at the grace of God that even you could return to faith in Christ. I don't know what it would take. I don't know how it could happen. It could happen. You'd have to explain to me. I would love to play some part in that process.

Like those thieves. It doesn't say they're thieves. Bob. It says their child. But you, you, people worthy of death in the, according to Roman law. The problem, as I see it, is that you've dug such a deep hole by being so vehement in your opposition to historic Christianity as we know it.

In 2000 years of church history, it would take a lot to turn that ship around. Bob, but God is powerful and God could do it. Yeah. Like, so my perspective, and I think a lot of, of people listening to this. Here, the history of the word laystace and the translations of the word laystace, which Julius Caesar famously called the guys that kidnapped him, the pirates that kidnapped him and held a ransom for him. He crucified them and he called them publicly laystace,

right? These guys were people who kidnapped a child, Julius Caesar when he was a child. So when you see Jesus saying being caught in this scene in the Bible in the public park with the kid and he goes I'm not a lace day I'm not a lace day's and then eight hours later he's crucified which which is what happens to people

who are kidnapping children That's the gospel according to Amman No no no but that's that's the true history of what happened Julius Caesar. No it is not the true history That's not what happened to Julie Caesar Why don't you consult independent scholars about those questions.

I have. I've asked independent scholars about the history of Julius Caesar. You've asked them to be on your show. No, no, this is off the show. This is private conversations I've had. No, okay. Well, I always suggest that you do that. So as I understand, were you dismissed from Dallas Theological Seminary? No, I left. I went and saw the president. I left. And I told him, I said, your program's not what it's up. It's not up to standard as it was under Jay Vernon McGee. And he agreed to me. This is Wavrid. He said, I know that.

He said that? Yes, your Greek program is terrible. It's fallen off. Okay, but at that point, I already had a bachelor, so it was a waste of time. I would suggest you take that question to a conservative seminary like Dallas. He did, Dallas. He did to Dallas. Wouldn't I want to take that to an unbiased source? Because by definition, somebody who's in a seminary is going to be biased towards them. You're taking this from a bias.

I agree. I agree. But I have. They're all going to be, everybody's biased. I've asked people who are in the middle of this, though, people who aren't on the religious side, people who think Amin is full of shit. I've talked people who think he's completely full of shit. And I asked them about this history of Caesar or Julius Caesar and crucifying laystace

and the word laystace being used. And they can agree on that. They don't necessarily agree with his theories. Okay. But they do agree on that principle. Okay. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm, I'm just asking, do you understand my position how I'm, why I'm skeptical? Yeah, yeah, I understand your position. You're not a Greek scholar.

Do you understand why I'm skeptical, though? How can I be a great scholar? I understand it because you've been tainted by him. Hey, now you're getting aggressive. Okay. I love it, Bob. And he's not, talk free. And he's not credible. Oh. Okay. So he does have a PhD in classical philosophy. Well, but he appears to and he, you know. He wants to be considered that, but in the bigger scheme of things, I understand you, maybe you haven't been able to facilitate the forum that would allow the proper scholars to be here and debate that. What makes you think this will open the door to it.

Now that you've kind of broken the seal, I think now this will open the door to it. I do think that somebody who claims to be following Christ, who suddenly throws that overboard for Aristotle and a night of hot sex is really not credible. That's what you base in credibility on? You realize he can't read this book. You realize he can't read this. This is great, Bob. Would you like to translate for us?

Here, here's the Bible. It's the Bible, Bob, the devil told me to do this. It's the Bible, Bob. Can you read it for me? He thinks the devil's talking to him, Bob. Watch people, look. Look at your audience. He's not talking.

He's manifesting demons. You don't want me. He's manifesting demons. You don't want to play this, Bob. Don't let Danny show the world that you cannot read the fucking Bible. You flim-flamming. That's from the devil. That's not from him.

That's from the devil. Make sure and get the flim flamming. And he said something about the incubus in your life. You're digging your whole deep, Oman. You really maybe should stop. Oh, God. You're afraid. I do.

I do all the question. They're afraid. They're afraid. We're doing this to learn. I think we're learning a lot. May I ask a. May I ask a simple question? Sure.

Is Amon your christen name? It is my third name. It's my second middle name. Exactly. Has anybody called you out on that? Well, here. Here, it's on my driver's license, Bob. But it's not your christen name.

What does that mean? What does that mean? What did your parents name you? My mother gave me four names when I was born. David, Charles, Amman, Hillman, and I go by Amman. because David murdered a bunch of people. Wait, wait, wait. Why did they give you almond?

Let's see the driver's license. We need proof. Can you pull, can you punch it on this, Steve? I'm just asking, why did they give you? I'm just curious. It doesn't say almond. Oh, they didn't put the fucking almond on my. It's on my Burs and certificate.

If you don't stop using the F word, I will leave. I'm not going to put up. Can I bring Chewy and just tell them that it's all my birth certificate? Okay. We need to make this. Hold on, but please. Okay. We need to make this something that people can learn from. That's the purpose of this. Not YouTube friendly. No. No. No, it's respectful so people can learn from this. We need to make this. Where did the name Ammon come from?

Where did the name Ammon come from? My uncle's name is also Ammon. His first name. So I don't know. Yeah. I really don't. Well, there's a bunch of immigrants from Europe, man, from all different places. I have no idea. No idea. Just curious. Yeah, no, that's okay. Where do you think it comes from? What makes you curious? I don't know.

Maybe the Ammonites. Who are the Ammonites? Ask Kim. Who are the Ammonites? Oh, there's nobody. There's nobody. Isidore, said. Huh?

Isidore, St. Isidore? He wrote. I'm talking about the ancient civilization. I know you're talking about the Ammonites. Or as my southern relatives preachers would say Ammonites. They say Ammonites, but you say Ammonites. I get that. And I'm just curious.

I don't know. You know, that may be just a red herring, but it's, I find it rather interesting that you were given that name. If that is what you were given. Yes, I haven't given it much thought. And you want to tell this man what the hominates were like, what they did? It was one of the groups that, you know, they wanted to destroy. Israel. In the Septuagint, they're talking about Israel going in.

And they had to. And they practiced human sacrifice. He's letting you talk. Let's let let's let him describe. I'm not sure he's going to tell you the truth. Well, if he does it, then you can correct him. They were one of the people that was genocided in antiquity. The Almanites were genocidal.

That's what the text says. Okay. There's not much evidence for it. But just who were they historically? Who were they historically? Who did they worship? I think you're probably going to say Molak or something like that. Yes.

And they practiced. They practiced infant sacrifice. And with the blood, the old. and all sorts of sexual essentialness. All sorts. Okay, so I don't know that there's a connection, but oftentimes a name, as you well know, from ancient Hebrew culture,

always designated something spiritually about the progeny. Now, is it possible that there's a curse of almond on this man? and it was put there maybe not deliberately but perhaps deliberately by an ancestor I don't know if he's telling the truth

that is the sexiest thing if this is an ancestral name I would say I'd change my name but he hasn't and he made I'm just suggesting well your name

your public name was what did you ever call yourself David or was it DCA Hillman was what I got When did you change it to Oman? I didn't change anything. My mother came in you.

When did you kill David? You now want to be known as Omin. When did you kill David? Oh, when did I get rid of, yeah, when I realized that he was a mass, he was a mass murder. You now want to be known as Omen. And is it, no. Carl Ruck was sitting with me one day. Dr. Carl Ruck, he's a classicist.

And he's sitting with me one day. He's a Harvard classical philology. I turned to him and I said, hey, you know David was a mass murder. I hate that name. And he goes, why don't you use your middle name? What is it? And I said, well, I've got two. Charles and Amman.

And he goes, oh, Amin. That's a good one. Use that one. That's a true story. It has a better ring to it than Charles. There may be nothing to that. I just find it interesting. Thank you.

I find it interesting because everything that you're suggesting is consistent with that type of a belief system. What if I told you that St. Isidore said that the name of the Antichrist is Amman? Could be. Yeah, he said that. Who is Saint Isidore? Wrote that down. It could be many.

names. Yeah, no, I'm just, it's interesting. Like you, I find it just interesting. If you sacrificed your children to Mollock in a, oh my God, in a bloody ritual, I would say that could lead to the Antichrist. It could lead a lot of things, but really, at a bottom line here, you're not interested in renouncing the devil and renouncing the path that you're on to receive an exorcism at this point. You're not. I wouldn't dare. I wouldn't dare step forward and renounce the devil. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't dare step forward renounce Vishnu, right? I'm not a renouncer. I'm not a renouncer and I can't do that. Okay. So you're not willing to renounce that.

No. And as you know, my brain says I have to have this. Every historic Christian baptism included the renunciation of the devil. Of course. Okay. All right. And you're not willing to stand with historic Christianity? No. Because what we have now is not what they have.

Okay. Okay. You've rewritten Christianity. You've rewritten the Bible. You've rewritten all these things, the gospel according to Ammon. So there's really no discussion here except the point. the possibility of a private discussion in which you might tell me some things

you won't tell in front of a camera. You know, in antiquity, Bob, the pagans and the Christians... You're not responding to what I said. I am responding with this answer. In antiquity, the pagans and the Christians, prominent intellectuals would come together and they still have that classical civilizations focus on the gymnasium.

And they would come just like you and me. And they would debate back and forth, right? I am not looking for any sort of ceremony with crosses. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me, Bob. What matters to me is the facts that are in this book that I have dedicated my life to study. We get that. May I ask just an obvious question?

What is tattooed on your head? Oh, my goodness. Bob, that's the point the devil was making. I can't see it. I can see it. Read it, Bob. Well, I can't read it. It says Medea.

And that's Greek, Bob. And why is it there? What is the one on the other side? There. That linear B? Yeah, this is linear B. Medea's the same name. And this, Bob, is Etruscan.

And women, wait a minute, why is Medea there? It's the same, I'm telling you that, it's the same name in Etruscan, Mataya. She was so well known in antiquity, the first Christ, that she was known all the way from the Black Sea to Spain. imagine being that popular in antiquity. Why was she so popular? That's difficult because of what she could do with the Christing drugs. No, no, no. You leap from Medea to Christ.

She was the first Christ. Wait a minute. Historically. You're not telling me what she did. What did she do? What did she do? Like what was her job? She was the queen of Babylon.

Yeah. Queen of Babylon. Yes. the the fountain of all witchcraft Babylon the meads Babylon the greatest fallen

I'm sure you know those words yes yes you're right Babylon the symbol of ultimate evil the witchcraft the sorcery the pornea and that's very central that's basically what you have on your head not basically that is what I have on the head

and you think we can have a reasonable dialogue. You really think that? Why does that mean we can't have a reason? I think this is fascinating. You tattooed with the symbol of witchcraft and sorcery. And you want a dialogue. On my head.

Yeah. Definitely. Why do you put tattoo names on your head in antiquity? What do you, come on now, oh man. Let's just, can you drop the public persona for a moment and just be very real here? No, this is me, Bob. You went from believing that Jesus Christ was your, Lord and Savior. Yes, definitely. That you were a sinful being in need of forgiveness.

Overnight. Yeah. Because of Aristotle. Not overnight. Instantly with Aristotle. Enjoying. Yes. Fornication. Definitely. And then tattooing on your head. Yes. The horror of Babylon. Yes. The horror of Babylon. Well, that's a, that's an interesting leap. I, you know, if I did not believe in the grace of God and the power of Christ, I would think you are hopeless, but you're not. You're not hopeless. There have been worse than you who have turned again to Christ. What is your understanding of Lady Babylon? What is your understanding of Lady Babylon? Your personal understanding of. Well, Babylon has both literally and metaphorically stood as the ultimate example of sorcery, witchcraft, and rebellion against God over and over again. It's referred to ultimate rebellion against God. Okay.

And in the end of time, Babylon the Greatest Fallen. It speaks of this kingdom finally being judged by Christ and cast down at the end of the age. The morning star. By the morning star. And so he has this on his head. And who was Lady Babylon? What did she do? Well, this is just a symbol, okay?

The symbol is of rebellion, of witchcraft, of the worship of the devil, of human sacrifice. You name it, all the licentious possibilities that are there. What about medicine? That is tattooed on his head. Did you know the word medicine comes from Medea? The guy who tattoos this on his head stands in judgment of Christ as a file. I'm done. I'm done.

I don't have enough Celsius to keep going. That has nothing to do with the Bible, though. But my offer still stands. Yeah. My offer still stands. I'm not going to take your offer. You'll come see me personally. You came here to get five grand.

That's what you fucking came here for. No microphones. Just you and I talking man to man. Oh, scary. You're a scared little man. And that's the problem. Just like the first. He's out here and he's been talking to you for 30 minutes.

No, he hasn't been talking about the Bible. He doesn't want to talk about the Bible because he can't. Okay. Just like the people at Harvard camp. What is it? Christ, Bob? You know, how was Medea the first Christ? I'm not, can you explain how Medea was a Christ?

Didor, Siculus, the historian comes along. I told you if there were any more ad hominem arguments, we would be done. You just talked about my tattoos. You're such a hypocrite, just like the Christians everywhere. But you didn't deny what I said about. You did not deny what I said about the tattoos. You didn't deny it. So look.

What if I picked out your ears and I said, you're big a bastard? You take it personally, Bob. Why don't you let me say a prayer? You can say a prayer all you want. I'm not restricting you. I would like to say a prayer. Please. Let's do it.

Okay? Let's say a prayer. And I would like to put some holy oil on you when I pray. You can take that holy oil and shove it in your ass, Bob. I'm not one of your victims. Wait a minute. Would you just say? I'm not one of your victims.

You want to hit me with your cross, you psychologically beautiful. Why is the holy water psychologically abusive? Wait, what did you just, I say I could do with this? I said put the water where the sun doesn't shine. Do you know what this is a symbol of? I think it's a symbol of your desire to invade my space, weirdo. It's a symbol of the Holy Spirit. And you said I could shove it where?

What's the word for Holy Spirit? What's the word for Holy Spirit, Bob? You don't even know that. You're flim flammer. You have any snake oil? What is the word for Holy Spirit? I don't know. Seriously, Bob, look, these are all his terms, dude.

He doesn't even know gospel. What does the word gospel mean, Bob? All right. What did I do with... Are we wrapping it up, Bob? Or are you got a book or something? Coward. The devil told me you're a coward, Bob.

All right. We're wrapping it up. I will not listen to this. I appreciate... Kind of abusive, filthy, negative language. All right, that's enough. We don't need to call a name.

James. Yeah. Bob showed up here. I do not have to put up with you. He will not put up with that. He engaged with you. You still going to pay him? If he agrees to let me publish this, then yes.

Yeah. I'm not going to pay him to donate to the church. Remember, Bob. That's what you're all about. Remember that. When he makes his charitable donation, that's you, buddy. That's you. Let me see that emblem.

Is there cash in here? Cash. No, I was going to rip it up. That's your prostitution money. You just have him give it to your church, you flim flammer. All right. Let's not be rude. Dude, he said I was demon possessed.

He can't take it back. Well, you can say, oh, I'm aggressive with the devil. But when the devil gets aggressive with you, you're a coward and you back down. You go live the rest of your life knowing the devil got the best over you. I think this audience sees clearly what has happened here. And your reframing of it is not. They do. It's not going to work.

You're exactly right. the audience. You're exactly right. You're exactly. That's the best thing to say. You should have finished with that. You should put that on the fucking... Yeah.

Well. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. I really appreciate your time. Don't touch my daughter on the way out either. What? Don't touch my daughter on the way out.

Are you recording that part? Yeah, it's recording. Oh, Bob, I'm a dad. I'm just giving you advice. You do the same thing with your daughters. Bob, how many times do you talk about motherfitting children on the show? And then you have the balls to look at me and say,

you got tattoos. You must be possessed. You've got a lot of gumption. I thought for sure you'd come here because I knew you when I was young. And I said, this guy's got balls. He will confront. And then you were sitting out there talking about confronting the devil. And now you're all afraid.

He did. He's the only one. You know? Dozens of people who came here. He's the only one. Are you going to let him play the whole thing? Are you going to tell him you can't play parts? I had my say.

Yeah. I stated my position. Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Bob. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming, Bob.