Danny Jones Podcast - #289 - New DMT Study Finds Evidence Aliens Are Simulating Our Reality | Zoltan Bathory & Danny Goler

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Zoltan Bathory is a musician, martial artist & founder of Five Finger Death Punch. Danny Goler is a filmmaker who created an experiment with DMT & laser beams that suggests we could living inside a simulated computational reality. SPONSORS https://twc.health/danny - Use code DANNY for up to $30 off + free shipping. https://bit.ly/viiadannyjones - Use code DANNY for 15% off. https://evening.ver.so/danny - Use code DANNY for 15% off your first order. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off DANNY GOLER LINKS YouTube Channel: @dangothoughts https://www.tiktok.com/@dannygoler https://www.instagram.com/dannygoler https://twitter.com/GolerDanny ZOLTAN LINKS https://www.instagram.com/zoltanbathory @FiveFingerDeathPunch FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Psychedelic super soldiers 09:38 - Zoltan's jiu jitsu training 20:04 - Zoltan's near death experience 34:27 - How Zoltan escaped Hungary 40:52 - The truth about the burning monk 50:51 - Hacking the body's operating system with meditation 59:47 - Tapping into the universal consciousness 01:05:07 - Zoltan's work in the aerospace industry 01:14:08 - The "cup of consciousness" analogy 01:26:18 - End of spiritual childhood 01:33:42 - How to map the DMT space with science 01:42:19 - Objecthood & the gestalt of reality 01:52:45 - Reality is a hologram 02:01:46 - NEW DMT laser experiment using magnets 02:11:02 - Seeing DMT code without DMT? 02:26:07 - Correcting the map of human history 02:33:09 - The purpose of human existence 02:47:17 - Dropping your "anchor" of reality in experience 02:55:59 - Kicked out of the DMT space by a 'being' 03:11:32 - What NDEs and DMT have in common 03:22:30 - Asking for help from DMT creatures 03:33:12 - Using DMT as a tool for human optimization 03:49:18 - Experiments to help you break out of the matrix 04:01:13 - "Burning man magic" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, we are rolling. Beautiful. Like you mean judici rolling or just rolling? Not jujitsu rolling. Just regular rolling. Maybe later we'll do some jih Tzu rolling. I got to bring my mat over here, though. Maybe you can smoke DMT and then you guys can roll.

Imagine. It wouldn't be much of a roll. I mean, he like play with me like some fucking cat toy or something. I think that's regardless. Well, Dan Hardy, right? The MMA fighter. He used to talk about his usage of psychedelics in fighting. Who?

Dan Hardy was his name? I don't know who that is. Yeah, yeah, he was a famous, yeah, he was a famous UFC fighter. Really? Yeah, and he used to talk about how he used to get in the cage on mushrooms. And he said, I could see the future, he said, like, I can see that. Yeah. Well, you know, they do that, they give that to war fighters now.

Remember that article I sent you last night? Yeah, but that's, they're giving people in Ukraine. They're giving Ukrainian soldiers Ibogaine and like that. And psychedelics, psychedelics, psychedelic mushrooms. They're doing this study that's fun, they're funding people at the universe. of North Carolina Chapel Hill, I think, to study the use of psychedelics like Ibogaine

and even psilocybin on soldiers and on the battlefield. On the battlefield. On the battlefield. On the battlefield for like edge detection because I guess it enhances edge detection. Well, not just that, but to be more optimal with a fucking gun. Ibegain?

I guess. The story you sent me looked like... Did you read it? I just saw the title because it was in the middle of the night. But the title seemed to have been imply that it's for healing, like trauma. I think part of it's for the trauma and part of it is also... It's a movie of trauma so you can go back to battle. Also, a huge part of it is for optimizing battlefield, like soldiers on the battlefield.

That's what it says in that story. Yes. That's insane. Maybe it's not that cool then. To make them more accurate, like shooting and stuff. I mean, that's insane. That's the wrong usage of the file. I can see what LSD definitely would be. LSD, that's what they thought.

MK ULTRAO, that's... stuff, that's what they thought, right? Yeah, I mean, look, the government's been weaponizing drugs since the beginning of time, right? If they're going to use, if they are studying drugs, they're going to figure out a way to weaponize them, you know? I mean, that, that you would think it sounds like it should be an obvious thing for us, and yet I think that the problem is that it's an obvious thing for us. Yeah. Like, that should not be the attitude of humanity as a whole. Like this idea that it's always a zero-sum game just needs to go away, basically.

Yeah. Otherwise, there's just no chance. Right. Because you're going to get bigger and bigger weapons. You're going to be able to go, wham, and you're going to destroy more things. So the attitude of the monkey is the only thing that becomes actually matters. Well, there is that meme, you know, that people who run the government, those people never took mushrooms, and the people who took mushroom know why this is a problem.

Yes. Yeah, exactly, right? Oh, man. Well, it's great to have you guys here today. Danny, Goeler, you're back. I'm back, maybe. fantastic episode talking all about the DMT laser experiment you did and I'm sure we're going to talk more about that today and some of the new stuff you've been doing with it I had a blessed and Zoltan it's awesome to meet you brother we had a fucking wild conversation last night at dinner you you are like a renaissance man you're born in Hungary correct that's correct Soviet controlled Hungary yes double black belt jujitsu judo and you're founder of the band five finger death punch double in some music Yeah.

You do everything. What the f*** don't you do? And so that's pretty much here. You know, like you have a check mark on life. These are the things I need to do and I just check them. That's pretty much for this. Yeah. So how did you guys get together?

How did you guys first meet? We met through a mutual friend who I don't, I'm never sure if he necessarily wants to always be mentioned in every context. But we met through a mutual friend, very good friend. And we basically met at the event. that event that Zoltan is now the founder of as well, which is the PGF. It's a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Would you call it a league? Yes, a professional grappling federation, and we have Jitsu competitions.

Oh, okay. I was invited to come help with the event, just kind of shoot stuff and all that good stuff. And then me and Zoltan were, I was invited to Zoltan's house to shoot some, actually a podcast, which just do a little setup. And I had to stay for another day because we were, you know, we were kind of rolling behind. So then it was like, hey, can you stay over the night? I'm like, sure.

That evening we sit down, start talking. He starts talking about some profound shit that, you know, always kind of the conversation drift towards. Yeah, yeah. And then I remember the short version of the story is that I asked him some question about something that it was describing into psychedelic space. And then he kind of threw me a glance. And he goes, okay.

And then he kept on talking. And then I asked him another question. And then he goes, wait a second. And he goes, what's your name? I go, because we didn't really, I go, Danny, and it looks back at our mutual friend, and he goes, wait, this is DMT Danny? I go, what?

He goes, bro, I've been following you. I'm like, what? It was like, first of all, I didn't know my name with DMT Danny. Second of all, and he's like, bro, I'm like, you know, and then later Zoltan was saying that the reason he looked at me is because he knew that the question I asked him, which I wish we would remember what it was, but I asked him something that he knew that only somebody who went really deep in the space kind of would know that kind of stuff.

Because it's very specific. Yeah. And then from that moment on, we just literally became best friends. Like, we were just like two, you know, butt heads just sitting there and like talking until 5 a.m. about all kinds of. He stays a week. I stayed a week. Kelsey. We started a conversation.

It lasted. Stay at your house a week. You know, that's the kind of thing where, you know, somehow people who are in this space usually find each other, you know. I always joke about it. There's no secret society. What is is everybody's underwater, and you pop your head out and look around. And whoever is out, you can see them, kind of. You know, like we always, we kind of have this network.

We all sort of know each other. Or eventually we find each other. And I heard about him. Like that was his nickname, D.M.D. Danny. And, you know, I kept hearing the stories. And I was aware of the laser. And I was aware of Pepe, the guy who was making the lasers for me.

So I knew of him. Yeah. Right. And I had sort of a spiritual conversation. People were asking questions and I was talking and I look up and I see like, there's this circle around me. Everybody pulled up their chair. I'm like, oh shit, it became a lecture sort of right.

And that's what, but then he said. He asked me a question. And the reason I looked at him, like, okay, he cannot possibly know that. I wish I remember what you asked. I don't remember. But there's no way for you to know that if you haven't been that. Right? And then he has the second question. The last one, I'm like, okay, hold on for a second.

Are you done? You knew it. One thing I can say that was kind of surprising to me is because a lot of people in the, just in the psychedelic space in general, they have this way of exploring these spaces that is very loose, so to speak. So people go into these spaces and they have their experiences and then they exchange notes. but ultimately it's always a very it's a very

shifting ground that are people trying to describe to one another right so people come to a conclusion about particular things like beings or spaces and things like this but with Zoltan it was so obvious that not just that he exploited very deeply but also I mean you know his reputation kind of runs

in front of him so like it's not like so Zoltan loves stories he has a lot of stories but at the same time there's the exact acution level is so high, right? Every single thing he touches, I call him like a master pattern recognizer. Yeah. The martial arts, the music.

He was never taught to play the guitar. So he just understands what patterns work. Like he just started, like what I started telling you, like he started building this property he got. And then he was like, well, maybe I'll get into like understanding some things about architecture. Pools one of the, one of the most reputable architects in Vegas back from retirement, brings them into the project. The reason I started telling you the story is because we met the guy when he was already finishing the project. He told us, completely unsolicited, he said, Zoltan is the most, he's the most talented architect he's ever worked with in his life. And I said, wait, are you an architect?

I was looking at him, he goes, no. I just, I just understand what works. So he gave him ideas that he never thought about. So like, it's, he just, he has this one of these minds that just understands what works in terms of functionality and outcome. That's fascinating. Yeah, and this is why when he started talking about the space, usually it's a conversation between two guys

like, dude, I went to that space, I did this thing, oh my God, it was crazy, blew my mind. But it doesn't usually come from someone like Zoltan who's like, on the other hand, you know, like he has all these responsibilities and serious stuff and all these businesses riding on his shoulders that he has to make serious decisions.

And somehow it all works. and Zoltan always, if you hang out with Zoltan like just one-on-one, it always looks like he's just hanging out. Like there's no effort whatsoever. And I had this moment, I'm just going to share this one small anecdote. At this moment, we're sitting with Aaron, the director of the film. Again, shout out to Aaron Vendon. We read at Zoltan's show.

We went to see Fiping a Death Punch. And we're sitting there, and Zoltan is sitting and talking to everybody after the show. security, other people, like all this stuff happening, right? And Aaron and Zoltan are sitting and Zoltan is telling him a story. And then later, we spoke to Aaron and it goes like, dude, how does he have time to talk and talk to us? And I go like, I don't know. But I'm like, do you understand that everything around us right now, the arena, the security, the everything that is happening right now, this is a machine that he built.

Like the bus is here, everything. Now, obviously, there's other people involved, and they're obviously, they're doing their jobs and everything. But the mind to put everything together in a way so it's like, it works like this lubricated machine. That's all Zoltan. So somehow we put it together in a way that now you can just sit and enjoy and now worry about too many things. Like I said, he travels with a posse of all black belts in Brazil and Jitsu and a full dojo just so he gets to also train. So he kind of, he thought of everything. Yeah, how many black belts do you travel with on your tour?

The last tour we had seven. seven and you guys just what drop a mat out in the out in the driveway and just so I'm carrying my mats and then pretty much I had two video guys two video guys both of them black baths the rigor light guys a black bad and you video the sessions sometimes yeah sometimes but it's just super helpful so I can train basically yeah but that's that's the case for the last you know like 19 20 years I always had at least one and as we you know we're progressing and more crew we can afford everybody I would hire I would hire people who have a skill set and also martial artists. You can expect more from a person who's a martial artist. It's because martial arts restructure is your mind. You start

thinking differently, right? Because, you know, I started when I was a kid. I was nine years old. And it develops rewiring in mind, meaning like it develops a personality that otherwise you wouldn't. And it doesn't mean that you have to start when you're really young. You can start right now. It still will do the same thing, right? Because there are. are these moments where, okay, you have to go on the mat and fight this other guy. So what happens there? Procrastination. Can you push this fight back? No. This is happening right now. Right. So you have to accept the inevitable. Like this is going to happen right now. You like it or not, comfortable or not. This is going to happen. So you have to accept those things. And if you parallel to life, right, things happens. And you have to deal with that. Then second, nobody can jump in.

This is not a group effort. This is going to be you and the other guys. So now we're going to save you. So you have to be responsible for everything that's going to happen. So there's a teaching in that. And then as a martial artist, you start to, let's say, the fight starts or the match starts. And then, you know, you have to figure this out. Right.

Again, in life, difficult things are happening and you have to figure it out. You get caught in uncomfortable situations and you have to know when to fight your way out or wear tap and fight another day. Right. So that's a skill that you will have to understand in life. You know, and the skill that my natural reaction is to figure out a way, I have to problem solve when both mentally and physically I'm being pressured, basically.

Right. It's because it's a human chess game. So it's both mentally and physically intensive. Right. And then as you master this, you start to realize that, wait a minute, I can also use your motion again. you right and so the uncomfortable situation will turn into you know advantages and it's the same thing in life that's what crisis management is like you look at a crisis like wait a minute i can use

this right this is maybe a great PR moment when it looks like a crisis what i'm going to turn this around so you start to see that in martial arts you know what we do it will develop traits in you that you can parallel to your career to your life because these are the same things But most importantly, it becomes a reflex. Like when you have some kind of adversity, I don't think about the adversity. I mean immediately go to the solution. I don't even think about it. So it's that that element is not there anymore.

Like, oh my God. Right. Oh my God. What do we do now? That doesn't happen. It's like the situation happens and immediately I automatically go into a solution and ultimately go into how do I use this? whatever it is that's happening

how do I use it as an advantage and it becomes automatic if you start to live your life that way it's a game now it's the whole thing is a game it's a chess game so life becomes this chess game of basically strategy

and then it becomes fun and then once you walk on it once you do it for a while you walk on a mat you're not scared doesn't know how big the other guy is it's like okay he's like 350 pounds can I beat him. Right. I'm not thinking like, oh my God, I might die. No. It's like, can I beat him? Can I beat him? Can I? Is there a way? How am I going to beat him? Right. So I mean, and so that becomes your personality. And then that, you know, I think that's one of the reason I became successful. It's overcoming obstacles. Because it's yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, that's the thing. You are, you know, you're looking at a, you're looking at a situation and, and you look at it. It's a problem, right? It's March, which means spring travel plans are in full swing.

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slash Danny and use the code D-A-N-N-N-Y for up to $30 off plus free shipping. Kits available to U.S. residents only. It's links below. Now back to the show. In life, like, ooh, there's a, you know, there's a problem.

I look at it like, oh, it's an obstacle I have to jump over. It's fun. Yes. Yesterday when we were sitting and having dinner, you asked Zoltan, a question that I kind of chuckled at.

You asked, what do you do in your, like, what do you do? What do you do every day? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what's your routine? And that's a really funny question if you actually get to hang out with him for a little bit. Because I've seen the switch. So, like, yesterday you just experienced, like, us just talking and exchanging stories and all of that stuff. I saw the switch happen with Zoltan when somebody walked in the room and said something to him,

one of these, like, you know, in the movie moments where somebody kind of whispered something in his ear, like something happened. and you see like this immediate switch in his face he goes he just gets up he gets like right I'll be right back walked outside comes back and something just happened right

something he just solved some kind of a problem and you never felt it as the guest like he just walked outside you saw something was going on somebody asked something he had to like give input serious input he comes back out hey and you just

continued the conversation of like Whoa, holy shit. So there's this immediate switch of like, oh, we got to go into a different mode now. Okay. The warrior kind of wakes up. And you see it in real time. It's very interesting. It's also why I realize that nothing that he does, at least from my interaction with you so far, is unintentional.

So when we just sit and hang out, it's like, yeah, that's my free time. I'm going to talk about whatever is close to my heart and I want to talk about. But he never does a thing that is unintentional. And because of that, when he told me, okay, he recently just, decided to come on my podcast, which is not even that huge yet. So there was a very intentional decision. It's like, no, I think this is important to talk about it now. Because I never, he never spoke about this publicly ever before.

Because there was no reason for it. It was just, you know, and now he felt like it's important enough. And I took that also as, well, first of all, it's kind of like a checkmark of like, okay, we're on the right path here. But also, there's an understanding that something, even if we don't fully understand what it is, not of us, there's something very major that is going on that needs attention

and that attention needs to be put on in the right way not just you know like I see a lot of people kind of like in a lot of different communities from spiritual communities of the awakening UAP communities disclosure arising of AGI in the tech world all of these things seem to be like types of crescendoes that are arriving

and we're all in some relationship to them the mapping of the human mind neuralink all of these things right And it seems like, and we, the truth is that none of us actually knows what the, you know, what the real thing is, my discovery. But I don't think it's coincidence. I don't think it's a coincidence. I think all of this is almost like the universe goes like, hey, right. Pay attention. Yeah, there's end of chat.

Yeah, we're, this conversation is going to get very meta, for lack of a better term. And we're going to talk about a lot of deep philosophical ideas and, and. But also in practice. Practical stuff, the DMT. I want to get into the DMT laser stuff. But before we do that, I'm really interested in hearing your origin story and where you come from and how you grew up and how you ended up here. Origin. So like Adam and Eve?

Yes, exactly. The snake in the garden. So basically I grew up in Hungary. That was at the time it was a communist country. So I grew up in Hungary and set out to be a scientist. The communists had this, you know, this idea of separating people into various casts of like, they come to the kindergarten, which by the way we walked to in the snow when I was, I don't know, four years old, five years old, that's a complete normal. The snow is taller than me. And the,

and the kindergarten is like three, four miles away. And your parents just put you out in a cold. So, all right, kid, don't die. That way. Don't get lost. And, you know, and then see you later. That's it. That was completely normal. Anyway, so we have a pretty different upbringing. Yeah, like, here's a spear. You go and fight for your food. You know, it's Sparta. And so they come to the schools and they pick out the kids and they're like, okay, you get

at this. We're going to put you in a special school. You could, you get at, let's say, athleticism. And then you go to your school that is specifically for sports. And so they pick me out and they're like, okay, you're math, science, you know, and we're going to put you in a special school. So I had like two or three math classes every day. And that was my gem.

I was going to be a particle scientist. That was, I was interesting in a moment I could read that, you know, instead of reading, you know, books about cowboys and Indians and everybody did, I'm like deep down in the tectonic systems of the planet and, you know, and particle science. And that was my gem. And then somewhere around when I was 12 years old, I had a, because we're sitting here, so I'm going to contact this story.

I had an out-of-body experience. I had an accident. And at the time, I didn't understand what happened. But I definitely, I didn't look at my own body. I hit a truck with my low bicycle. And, but I had the sensation of whatever I wanted to look at, wherever I wanted to go, I was just there. And I understood like, whoa, something is bizarre.

Something is weird. And I, you know, I got up, eventually I sit up. I was in a pool of blood with a circle of people around me. and I just grabbed my bicycle, went home. You know, my mother, it's a communist country. You know, that's how it works. Like, kid, I'm bleeding out of my head. It's like, kid, don't get it on the carpet.

That's it, that's it. You know, you can have a sword sticking out of your head and like, oh, probably you should go to the hospital. But you've got to walk because I'm busy. So, you know, I mean, that's pretty much how this work. And so I went to the library and I started to search. And at the time, the Google search of the times were like you, reading the books.

and then you have footnotes and you just simply find where those excerpts coming from. So I dug down the path of eventually I found books about life after death and eventually find Eastern philosophy. So by the time I was like 14, 15,

I was knee-deep into Cria yoga and meditation and all that. And so, and I also had issues with science. So I had a moment when I was about 15, I started to battle my professors about theoretical math.

I disagreed with a lot of things and there are issues of of practical math and theoretical math. So I had a conflict there while I'm researching and experiencing early days of wasn't psych-catelics, so to speak, but I'm down on that path. Yoga meditation.

It's a science, breeding techniques, various techniques. Because that seemed to be connected to what you were, the idea that you were searching for with that near-death experience you have. I understood very early the question that while we have, you know, maybe scientists like, you know, Higgs and Einstein and, you know, this is important. This is very important. Their work is

really important. Science is really important. I was going to be a scientist. But ultimately, the most important question, all these things, science is subservient of the most important question. The most important question, what the hell is going on? What's going on? Why are we hear who we are why what is this right so if you look at science why we're looking for science and one way yeah we want to you know we want to make ourselves comfortable we inventings and buildings to make ourselves less dependent on physical labor right that's one reason for science yeah but the ultimate reason is like the explanation of what the hell is happening and i felt like yoga and and and these mental sciences are on the same path

This is, then tried to answer the question. And later in life, psychedelics, to me, it's the same exact thing, trying to figure out the ultimate question of what the hell is going on. What is this perception? How am I alive? How am I perceiving, not even how I'm alive, but just the perception itself. And why? And why are we here?

So that's the most important question. And so while I was having clashes with certain scientific ideas, I was also barreling down this path of yoga and mental sciences and trying to figure this out. And so, and in the same time I was playing music, which is, you know, I was very interested in music. And again, as somebody who is scientifically oriented, I started to understand like, wait a minute, music, everything is a vibration. And as a musician, I'm playing with the source code, basically. I am playing with harmonies, melodies, and a correlation. And if you think about the entire universe, it's basically simetic patterns.

Right. And so I kind of understood that age that, okay, so as a musician, right, I am playing with the source code. And also with music, I can affect you as a human. Like just to give a very short example, you know, I can give you a guitar riff and I put a drumbeat to it. I'm going to make this drum beat a little bit shuffled, meaning that the snare will not come mathematically, what it's supposed to. It's going to be a little bit late. Barely audible, right?

It's going to give you a feeling that, oh, man, we are cruising. Yeah, this feels good. It's, you know, island time, yeah, right? Now, I take the same guitar riff. I'm going to put a drum beat on it and I quantize it. So it's exactly on time. It's going to be like, oh, man, let's go to war. Bam, bam, it just feels like, let's go.

Or I take the same snare and I push it. a little bit but again it's not really audible you can only feel it and so now snare comes a little bit early i'm giving you anxiety physically giving you anxiety right you're like oh yeah go right so imagine if i start to just mix those patterns within a song i give you an anxious verse and i release it in the course was there a moment you can remember that inspired you to start look at like start practicing music and learning you know there's the obvious cliche that music uh music uh you know there's the obviously shit that music kind of chose you,

right? So I don't really have a... I was always interested, you know. I wanted to be a guitar player, so I couldn't afford it. I got a jigsaw and my parents' coffee table. I'm like, yeah, this looks good. All right. And I just made myself my first, unplayable, but very heavy metal guitar,

you know? So, you know, you had to make, you know, Eastern philosophy and Eastern life is like, what we have and how far we can go with that versus a wish list of what I need to, So I made my first guitar. I wanted to be a guitar play. I wanted to, you know, I was interested,

but I don't have a specific moment that ignited like, oh, yeah, that's what it is. What kind of music were you listening to at that age? So I started with the British punk. Okay. You know, like the voice of the rebellion in a communist country game, you know, and then eventually switched into heavy metal.

And it was a purpose. A purpose was really like, it was not, you know, it was not that it wasn't illegal, but it was framed upon, right? So it was like a little kid, what can you do when you're 12 years old? You're not going to steal your grandfather's Akey that he hid in the Second World War in the backyard. You're not going to start a revolution. You need some kind of an outlet.

Like how do I oppose this, the system? And, you know, the heavy metal felt like, well, this is the rebellion. You know, so it's it was also, you know, loaded, so to speak, for me. That was kind of like a Western culture seeping in. And also, if you think about rock music, was sort of a voice of the rebel. And even in the West, it was, you know, it was countering social, you know, social standards

that they disagreed with, right? So, you know, so for me it was both interesting as in playing with the source code, understanding that with playing with the source code, I can physiologically even affect how you feel. Yeah. And I've just talked about rhythm, you know, now there are major and minor scales,

minor scales are sad, major scales are happy, so I can manipulate how you feel. And I thought that's fascinating, right? Then understanding how there's a math involved with music, these are mathematical correlations. And beyond that, it's also geometrical correlations. I see patterns on the guitar versus learning a scale. I see patterns.

Right? So I thought that was amazing. And it was a vehicle for rebellion. So I'm like, oh, this is perfect. So I was doing that. Yeah. Right? I'm doing visual art.

in the same time. So I went to school for that too. Like I have a commercial art and design degree. And I'm barrowing down on a path of yoga and trying to understand what's happening. And eventually science started sort of phased out of my life. I always going to have the scientific approach to things. But it kind of was phased out because I felt like science is a loose explanation, or collection of ideas that try to explain what's going on.

And there's a difference between experiencing what's going on or trying to explain it. Right. Because I look at it. There are four kind of people. The reason, Danny said that I finally said, like, okay, you know what? I'm going to step out and I'm going to start talking about it. What we talk about, you know, the cycle of space.

I've been involved with that for decades. there was no reason to talk about it because it's not like I needed attention and and I felt like the world is not ready it's just not there yet to talk about it but something's changing there is a end of childhood from a spiritual perspective for this planet people growing up spiritually and and the forecast of people people like there are the the flower child the flower child the We joke around tree huggers, right? The modern hippies who jump into the place and it's a playground. Then there's the explorers.

The explorers are people who also jump into the cyclic world, but with a scientific mind trying to explore that there is something more here, something tangible, something real, because our experience is correlate and we can verify that this happened to me. I saw this. Did this happen to you? You saw this too. So then we can verify each other's experiences.

So something is real here. Right? Then there is the observers. The scientists who watch this thing, but they want to stay outside. They try to measure and figure out without being part of it. And then there are the civilians who have no idea. They just have no clue that this is happening. I don't know about NPCs, but yeah.

Well, yeah, but, you know, there's different functions, right? Yeah. And I feel like that today we arrived to this moment where, you know, when there are enough attention on it and the observer class, the scientists who generally held highly as their scientists are getting, taking a notice and getting more and more attention going on, that's where also the laser comes in. That's where these tangible things where, okay, something is going on here. And then is it not that our job is to figure out what's going on or function in life or existence, figure out what's going on. And when there's this space is opening, even though it takes a substance to get there, but it's a verifiable real, veryifiable real, then we need to explore that. Feeling your best starts with a great product. And that's why I'm excited to have Vaya sponsor this episode.

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And then so, now, to make the full arch where I came from growing up in that country and eventually coming here, but... How was how hard was it to get out of of there and get to the U.S.? How old were you? Took a revolution.

I mean, communism had to collapse. There's a lot of history there. We didn't have passports. We couldn't go to our countries that are Western countries. we were completely aware of Western culture but we were just not participating

so we were sort of in a in a pit life was you know the race cars were going and we were just sitting in a pit watching the race we were not part of it so while we were completely aware of Western culture and we can A, B, the system right? Oh my God, that's pretty cool and this sucks.

Yeah right. So we wanted to get out of there but there's a minefield like an actual minefield on the border with trigger happy border patrol you can't get at and you don't have passports. And, you know, if the system was great, then then you don't have to lock us in. We would have stayed obviously. He all wanted to get the hell out of there. And, and in 89, it started to cave in. It started in Poland, actually, the dock workers started to strike. That was the first crack in the system. Like, oh, wait a minute, you can track it. And I remember a

moment when I was fairly, very young, actually. And we were watching TV and the one TV channel we had, black and white on TV channel, communist propaganda, does not work on Monday, no TV on Monday, and stops at midnight. That was life. And I remember that there is a transportation industry in America was striking. And then, you know, these guys were gleefully like, oh my God, you know, the capitalist system is crumbling.

The bourgeois will fall. And you know, communism will succeed. That was the propaganda on TV. And they were showing how the Americans were at on the street with a little signs. and I'm look at my dad. I'm like, well, hold on first again. So in America, I can go on the street with a sign and yelled that I'm not happy and

nobody's shooting me. Nobody's arresting me. I don't disappear. That's how that works. I need to get the hell out of him. Right. And a bewildering part, like, he didn't understand what I was asking. Right.

Because they were so, they were born into that fear-based system. Yes. Like, they were telling me, like, shit. shut up you be going to get arrested we'll disappear like hyper normalization for them oh that was completely normal to them so they were broken souls born into this system they never knew anything else right so they were that experiment the fleas in the jar that can't jump out you know i don't know if you know that experience you put fleas in a jar and put a lid on it and they tried to jump out and keep hitting the lid and after that you take off the lid and they will never

jump out right because they learn that that's the lid and so it's kind of like that broken souls that could even imagine when I was telling to people like oh I'm going to America and I'm going to play rock music I'm a tour the world people thought that you're crazy like that was ridiculous to them like what you're insane that's not possible we don't have passports that's just not a thing right so I never had a doubt that I'm gonna do it and well obviously it's proven that I did but you know but that was basically uh growing up there and 89-ish when it's started crumble and eventually collapsed and Once we had passports, then if it's like, everybody's like, okay, let's go.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. And then you said you spent a lot of time practicing Buddhism with actual monks? Yes. So did that happen? So once I was in America, I came here without speaking a word of English. So I could say like, yeah, beer, that's it. Is it true, the Hungarian language is like not connected to any of the other languages around that area?

Yes. The closest, yeah, the closest would be Finnish, but we have maybe 30 words, 15. 30, 40, 50 words, I don't know that, rooted in the same, you know, word, but not really. Like, so we basically were nomads, like Attila, the Han, the first wave, and then the second wave was Arpad. That was his name Arpad. The leader who... Arpad? Arpad.

Yeah. Okay. So basically it's on North China, Mongolia, that area, the nomads were coming over to Europe. And so that's how the Huns, Hungarians, the Hans came. So we're barbarians. And then, you know, they picked that current territory of Hungary as their home base. So we're not, you know, so the European languages are not connected to them. Right.

There's like probably like 12, 13 million Hungarians in the world to speak that language. It's a very different language. Logistically is absolutely different. Right. Built, you know. And yeah, I didn't speak English. So I had to learn that. Wherever I was, I was staying in this place where somebody left the,

book, Soshenk Redemption. And I had a Hungarian English dictionary and I translated this book word by word. Wow. Without any understanding of, you know, grammar or anything. So I had to translate it, probably read the book like 30 times because I always started it over because it started to make sense. And I would watch TV. I had a little black and white TV in the room and I put on the closed caption and I could recognize the words and the pronunciation. And once I could understand English, I would live in Barnes and novels and borders and on the bookstores. Because they let me just sit there with a tea, which is the cheapest version. I couldn't afford anything else, right?

So I would have a tea and I would sit in Barnes and novels and just read. Just anything I could devour. Because out of a sudden I have this library of Eastern philosophy, Mesoamerican philosophy. You know, I read Carlos Kustaneda's entire, you know, work three times. at least you know and then all the books that I could never get in you know in Hungary so that was my just devouring that you know and and I was a seeker so I would seek out yogis and people that I would hear about that could do things allegedly that are superhuman and then I met people and I saw things that I can

verify that okay I saw that this happened this is not in our current set of understanding that what can physically happen Right. So I would go and meditate and then I found these are Sri Lankan monks that I spent a lot of times with, you know. So that was parallel to everything else I was doing. That's fascinating. Yeah. And you last night we were talking about the monk who lit himself on fire during that protest. Dick Van Duket. Yes. In Vietnam. And you were saying that that was a recruiting call. That was not sort of a protest based on the gasoline exports or anything like that. So if you understand, you know, if you understand the way they think, the Buddhist monks. And it's very, very similar to the shamans or the men of knowledge, so to speak. Can you pull up that photo, Steve?

Of, you know, Mesoamerican history, right, when the Spaniards came. And what happened there, they have a very similar way they relate to oppression. Because, you know, the smooth seas won't make great sailors. sort of idea that spiritual or physical oppression will lead to your most rapid development as a a person right then so if you if you if you know that they understand that concept right if you know that understand that concept then you know that they're not going to get involved in in political the motivation is not political and if you read the damapata or you any of the the teachings right It's always that the meaning of those teachings is dynamic.

It's almost like you will understand what you're capable of understanding at the moment. And you read that same thing a couple of years from now and it will mean something else. And that's the brilliance of that. And so there are so many of these teachings and these anecdotes that you read it and it might mean one thing. And then later you realize like, oh, that's just a seed. And there are some amazing things in there. Right. So if you understand how they think and how they operate,

then you know that it's, that there's a different motivation. So things, what you see on face value is usually not what it is. Right. And that particular picture that we're talking about, you know, it's,

to me, that was a light tower moment. What I call a light tower moment is when, when you look at something and in face value, this is a political protest. And there's a political protest, this picture was one of the most favorite picture, most famous picture in the time. I think it's 1962 when this happens.

You find out, Steve? I think 62. Pull up like the Wikipedia page about it. And so, you know, so this triggered this, this major event of, you know, human rights. And so the picture was published everywhere and it was a very well-known picture because how the world related to us. Like the shocking element of like you see this monk? Yeah. Motionless.

Right? Just burning to that the absolute most horrible debt without flinching. Yeah. Kwan duke. Yeah. Take Kwan duke. Right. 1963.

June 11th. Okay. There you go. So, 63. So Kennedy was president, right? So. Go back, Steve? On the time.

Well, 63. So I think Kennedy was president on the time. And June. Yeah. He was still president. Yeah. Right. So this picture, this moment, right, because of the nature of the picture, because how shocking that is, right, this became sort of a, and even if you read Wikipedia, it's probably still to this day going to relate to why this happened as a political event, right?

And again, go back to how monks and how these guys actually think and operate. If you intimately understand that, then you know that this is the face value, but there is more to this. And what I meant my light tower moment, that this was a perfect vehicle for the whole world to see this. Because this picture was everywhere. And some of us, a small percent, but some of us saw this picture. And my question wasn't political. My question is like, hold on for a second. If this monk can sit there, burn to death without a blink of an eye,

whatever power this human attained, I need to know and attain. That's incredible. Right. So some of us looked at it like, oh, I need to investigate this. I need to get into meditation, Buddhism, da-da-da-da-da. Right? Because I need to understand. This is superhuman.

Yes. Right? So it's a light tower moment because I wasn't the only one who thought of this. A pretty large amount of people saw it as most of the people saw it as a political issue. Yeah, right. But a pretty large amount of people also saw it as I saw it. Like, hold on for a second. How is this possible?

There's a miracle is happening right there. A miracle is happening right front of us. If this monk came out and says, check it out, guys. I'm going to light myself on fire. I'm going to perform a miracle. Nobody would have believed him. Everybody would question like, oh, maybe there was some kind of an ointment or everybody would have question that this is real. But because it was sort of presented as a political thing, it just kind of went through the system without being questions.

But those of us who see the world differently, those of us saw superhuman powers. But if this humanly possible, I need to know how. I need to know how to calm my mind and how to put myself in that. position but I can do this and now if you think about it at the time Buddhism was kind of getting eradicated and the knowledge that these guys were you know the libraries were burnt and the knowledge that they attained and and put in libraries were being eradicated so this picture probably recruited more people to Buddhism and to this path and I don't even like to use the word Buddhism because it's an But more people was recruited for this path than probably anything else they could have done.

Yeah. Right? Wow. Because even though there is a small percent of people who saw it as an incredible human feat, right? That's still a huge number because the whole planet was exposed to this picture. Can't even imagine being they're watching in real time. It's just, I think there's video. There's video of it.

It's crazy. I keep trying to imagine what it's like to like stender. The emulation. That's the name of the pictures. The emulation. Yeah. And, you know,

and again, right there, you see something that is humanly should not be possible. No. Humanly should, but so right there, this is, this picture should trigger you.

And start you in a pad that I need to know this. This is, this is absolute control. Like this is when, when your mind, has full control. And that is the point of meditation. That is the point of the whole path

that you attain that power. When you, you know, you have this incredible computer in your head, right? Yes. This mind of us, right? And the train of thought never stops. So there's a constant, you know, there's always moving, right?

Steve, you can play it for us, but don't show it on the actual podcast because it'll get us fucking copy. no not copy written but it'll get it'll get banned no this isn't the same thing isn't this is different no this is it this is really it i think so this is the same guy there were a couple of more so this wasn't the only one it's put it could be a movie or or there were a couple of more so this i thought he did it to himself on the original one he did yeah yeah yeah he poor the yeah i mean his students were there but right right so oh his those were his students yeah around him yes oh shit i didn't even realize that yeah so you know

ultimately the point of meditation that you have this train of thought completely uncultivated, running free. And there's this idea of mindfulness. If you, at all time, you're completely conscious of what your mind is doing. Think about it, you drive home. And I ask you, like, what did you see on the way home?

What roads you took? I probably don't remember. You just autopilot home. Right? So that means, like, that's a simple proof of, you were, like, took your half an hour, let's say, to drive home. For a half an hour,

you were not completely conscious of where your mind was and what it was doing. Or you're saying like, hey, you know what? This idea popped in my mind. Well, I didn't just pop in your mind. Something triggered that idea. You saw something, something triggered it. And before this idea popped in your mind, your mind was doing something else. And you're not aware of what it was doing.

So the ultimate way of existence is that you're at all times completely and fully aware of what your mind is doing and thinking. And you're in control of that. Can you be depressed if you're in control? No. Can you have a suicidal thought? No. Can you have crazy thoughts? No.

You're in control. And so we are not fully in control with our mind. And so the point of that meditation and what this Tickwantuk achieved is that absolute control. Wow. So that is that picture right there has. There's so many things in there. It's like a fractal. Yeah, there's so many things in there.

Like you see a man in absolute control of his body and his mind. Yeah. And it seems superhuman. There's a lot packed in there. And so some of us saw that as a light tower. That's why I called it a light tower, even when you see this and you go, okay, I need to understand this. I need to learn this. I need to be barreling time.

Dot road, dot pad. And how so when you started practicing this and learning more about it, you mentioned last night that there's, there's something something you can achieve, like a certain level you can achieve in the practice of this stuff, of this meditation where you can basically like tap in to this, for lack of a better term, DMT state automatically, like by the flip of a switch.

Yes. It's a, you know, there's a, there's a, So yoga is a science and there's there's physical elements with how that, you know, the Kundalini, which is basically a spinal fluid moves up on your spine and how it triggers certain things. But so there's an actual physical exercise. But, you know, yoga has seven different paths and there's kria yoga and there's various forms. But it all goes to the same spot, right? You have a narrator, right? And this narrator is by basically explaining to you the world.

as you're moving around or, you know, it's like, did I close the garage door? That's technically a voice in your hand. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if the voices in your hand is talking to you, that is bound by, it's in a prison of the language. That voice will never say anything to you

that's not being already spoken, invented. Sure. Because it is using a language. And you're a prisoner of that language that you're speaking. Because everything, and so this voice will, talk to you in that language. That's one issue. There are other issue that we have a built-in automatic filter. An automatic filter is that you have the base operating system is the survival of the individual, then the survival of species and so forth, so on. And there is a hierarchy of what's

important. Right. And so the most important part is you to survive. That's the red telephone of like, hey, you're in danger, run or fight. Right. So there are those things. But in everything else, there's almost like there's an equalizer and what's important, what's not important. So let's say you're sitting on an airport and there's a million people talking. You don't hear anything just noise. And I was somebody saying going to say the word podcast. You'll hear that word because it's important to you. But you didn't hear any of the other words.

Right. If you bought a new car, you'd start driving it around and you start to know, it's like, man, everybody has a car. Well, the number of those cars didn't change. Right. It just wasn't important to you. Yeah. So what it means that your mind, actually deletes information that is seemingly not important to you.

Right? You perceived it but it's delete it. Save energy, right? Correct. And it's just a lot of data. Yeah. It finds it not important. Now here's a problem. So you have two elements here. One, the voice that's processes, processing everything is in English for you, right? So you're prisoner of that language and the boundaries of the language. And then there's also a filtration system that you're not even aware of. You don't even know what was deleted you drove home and a lot of things happened that you didn't see because you saw it but i shouldn't say you didn't see you saw it but you didn't register it's like i noticed sometimes it's like if you're there's if there's ever like a route you are used to driving like on a daily routine and you're driving from here to there whatever and then one day you decide to walk the same route all of a sudden it's a whole new world right like i never saw this building here before you know what i mean now the question there is that okay so i have the

filtration system that takes out the information that might have been important, but I did notice, right? And everything that is described to me, my mind is kind of speaking to me in English. How do I get out of this? And that is the science of yoga, that is the meditation. Let's get out of the filter. Let's get ahead of the filter. Yes. And let's do nonverbal communication versus verbal communication. Right. And a way I could prove that to you, I could point out certain things in this room. And if I ask you to tell you, tell me what I'm pointing out, right? Literally, we can do that. So go for it. Microphone. Danny. Cup. So what's going to happen?

Too much. I'm going to outrun you, right? Yes. Okay. You still saw what I point out and you knew what it was, but you didn't have time to formulate the word. Right. Right.

Because that takes a microsecond. You have to reach in to the library, grab the word. Your hard drive has a speed. Right. But your attention moved faster. So your attention moved faster than your language could possibly move. So is it possible to see and perceive things faster than you can formulate the word? Yes.

And you knew what I was showing. You perceived it. You just couldn't say the word. Right. So with that, imagine if you meditate and your language, you know, like your mind is speaking to you, that whole idea to out. run that. You can't engage. You have to kind of like do your Mayweather boxing style. Like you're just, you're just stepping away from the punches. You're, it's trying to talk to you and you're stepping

away. It becomes a game of the mind is trying to talk to you and you're not engaging. And eventually you achieve that silence when it stops talking. Right. And then the first step of spiritual realization is a self-realization when you have this moment, when you realize that the witness, you're watching, you're the witness and you're watching your mind trying to talk to you. And then I was on there's this moment of hold on for a second. If I'm watching my mind, then I'm not the mind and who am I? And that's a very profound moment of one of the major steps in spiritual processes

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Thank you to Verso for sponsoring this episode. It's linked below. Now back to the show. Right. Right. And so these are the two. So that's one step. Like I was ahead of the language.

Separating yourself from your mind. Yes. And so there are techniques. There are physical techniques. There are mental techniques. You know, the mantras, little songs or mandalayas, very complicated pictures that you look at it. There's various techniques and tools that, you know, that various people use to achieve this. But you can play piano or do jihitsu because you're not thinking, why are you doing jihitsu?

Are you playing guitar? I'm not thinking like, did I left the stove on? My mind is kind of in a flow state. So that can be also meditation. That's kind of the base of tantric meditation, tantric boozes, where anything can be your meditation as long as your mind shuts up, as long as not. Right.

So that's one. Second is that getting ahead of that filter, getting into that mindset when you perceive all, and you get to decide what's important, versus the routine of you drove home, you don't even remember. Right. The filter was done. If I didn't tell you to watch the red cars, you don't know how many there were. But when I told you, watch the red cars, now you're aware. Right. So we are in charge with that. So these are all practices. And then comes psychedelics. So how do you, without psychedelics, turn that filter off? That's basically the process of meditation. The first step of the process is stopping the language.

The language first. The language first. Okay, so that's part of it. Got it. Okay, I understand. Because once the language is there, right, then your communication is verbal. Now you're inside the box. Now you, you know, now you can't.

Well, and here's a thing. Like about composing music, painting pictures, right? Doing any sculpture. I'm going to give you a really good example with that. because you can't make mistakes there. So, okay. So if I, you know, if, like, everything, I see the view that everything is possible. And when I'm talking about everything is possible, is there's a potential.

How to make a light bulb work that that potential was the same billion years ago than it is now. We just didn't have the technology or the need or that, you know. But how it works is the same. If time travel exists, that exists right now. We don't know how to do it. That doesn't mean that there's no answer to that. There's a way to do that. If we need nuclear fusion on a room temperature,

if it's possible, it's possible right now. We just don't know how to do it, but it's possible, right? And it's the same thing with art, sculptures, painting, music, right? All that. So I'm not really inventing anything. I'm just reaching and more like discovering. Or I just bring something. into this space and manifest it, right?

And I would say this exercise of like if I gave you a pencil and say, okay, draw a straight line. You can execute that. Draw a circle. You can execute that as perfect as you can. Okay, a triangle,

square, a sine wave. Yes. Okay. Shine wave. Everything. Okay, cool. Mona Lisa. I draw the Mona Lisa. Everything that needed for that, you executed. all the elements that is made of you executed and I can see that

you have full control over the pencil yeah right and so there should not be a problem to draw anything to paint anything right and what that is it's it's about you getting into this flow state

making that connection with the potential like the muse creating a bridge right and holding not vision like you're not painting the monoliths and it would be to the most obvious when you're making a sculpture when you're making a sculpture if you made a mistake that piece of stone is gone you can't glue that back right okay so you have to have a full vision of what you're about to do right and so that is the process like getting into those flow states when you can

create this bridge and the reason i'm bringing this example because that's kind of what happens in meditation right that I'm getting to this flow state when I have a bridge to the ultimate potential and I'm just giving you the example what how it happens when I compose music I have to hear all the instruments in my head to write the song I have to be able to do that I have to create that bridge if I'm making a sculpture I have to see that sculpture in my head and hold that vision in order to make that yeah so I'm copying what's in my mind and what's in my mind is not mine exactly right so i created the bridge i am making a sculpture i can't make a mistake because i hit

the wrong i chip the wrong thing it's no longer gonna be possible to make this culture and so that's the that's the thing that you're trying to strengthen in meditation like how do i make my connection to this universal soup of consciousness as solid as possible have you ever heard of the book called the i think it's called the war of art by sky named stephen pressville Art of War, yes. Art of War, yeah, of course you've heard of that one. There's another one called The War of Art. He's a guy named Stephen Pressfield.

He's a writer. And he talks about the idea of tapping into this muse, which is similar to what your idea is of universal consciousness, where, like, every day he basically follows this same protocol where whether he feels like it or not, he sits down at his desk at the same time every day and forces himself to write for an hour, two hours, three hours, whatever it is.

And he says sometimes he doesn't want to fucking do it. It's the last thing he wants to do. But he forces himself to just start fucking writing for the first hour. And then eventually with no distractions, locked in a room with this pen and paper, the muse will start flowing through him and take over. Right. And then this, this creativity, this magic will start flowing through his hand. So what he is doing, I could equate that to, well, that's meditation.

That is the process, right? So the difference, I guess, is that we are very specific. When I'm talking about the reason I use, let's see, an idea was sculpture, because it's so permanent. If I made a mistake, that's a permanent mistake, not even like drawing, man, like I use an eraser. That piece of stone was chipped off of that rock. It's gone. You know, right?

So that demonstrates, like, how strong your vision has to be. And I can also parallel that to your life, because that's just what I do. an artist but i do the same thing with my life so when we talked about like okay you do all these things well that's how it happens i wanted to race monster truck okay i'm gonna raise monster truck i wanted to work for the space industry i have worked for the space industry for years right i wanted to be a musician yes i am a musician i wanted to work for the fucking space industry yeah yeah jesus christ doing what we can't just gloss over this he was the guitar player for the space yeah we were explaining with zero jr

guitar solos. It's like, look, it started with, not to take a big side road there, but for a few years I was a consultant for space industry. I have been on a conversation with Anuja Ansari, was up on the, you know,

with who? Onusha Ansari, she's an Iranian astronaut, basically. And she was on a space station, we were on a phone while I'm on a tour bus. My band is hanging from the chandelies, throwing bananas at each other, and I started to scream at them, like guys shut the fuck up i have 14 minutes to be on this phone call because then it's out of

oh my god everybody looked at me like what why did they want you to consult with the space astronauts okay i designed her spacesuit and her mission patch and all that so i was a designer originally that i was doing you know 3d movies and the short you know the story to compress the story started with you know scientists were and you know engineers were looking at looking for somebody who can make their visions into 3d animation so they can build certain things or get funding for certain things so that's where it started then a friend of mine who was working on a flying flying car which eventually became a flying motorcycle which flew and in the smithsonian museum came to me like hey can you help me engineer or you know at least did the

the representation 3d movies of this and i do have understanding on engineering so i started to build this thing for them and I'm like okay this is not going to work right like I can see this not going to work how about move this here move that there so did some modification and that made it patentable right so I'm one of the inventors on the flying you know motorcycle and we got the patent and it flew and all that so that's was the origin of this and then and then eventually they kind of sucked me into that world because they needed somebody who has the design abilities right I could do 3D animation and all that I can design all kind of stuff and the understanding of engineering so I'm not going to do something crazy that's something unfeasible so that's how I kind of

got built in and then I also did user interface design for various you know electronics and whatnot it just means like if you pick up your phone if you think about how it works it's already wrong I have to be able to guide you I have to give you a user interface that that is obvious that's the magic that you should not be thinking about how to use a VCR, it should be obvious. Right. To give you an example, you know, the R rows is pretty obvious. Probably ancient times if you, you know, draw an arrow, you kind of know, like look that way or go that way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where, you know, let's say a stop sign is learned. Yes. A stop sign is, the color red is ancient because you will recognize color red warning. Mm-hmm. Right. So that's sort of a, it's in our genetic history now. but the stop sign itself, the shape of it is learned.

So there's a science of what is learned and what is, you know, for example, something in between. If you look a poster, if somebody is looking to the, you know, this way or not way in a poster. If you're looking in this way, right, then it feels like you're looking into the future because of the motion of the clock. If you look the other way on a poster, it feels like you're looking back to the past. And these subliminal stuff that, you know, that's just there. And some of them is learned. Some of them is inherited almost genetically.

Like how the birds know which a snake is poisonous. They have one trial. They can't get it wrong ones. So if that was the case, all birds would be dead by chance, right? So somehow the birds know which snake not to mess with, right? So there's a genetic history. So a good user interface designer knows this, that what are the things that are naturally, you know, almost a genetic history,

and what are the things that are society taught you? Right. And how much of that you can use. And so anyway, so I was involving that. So you helped design the space suit? Yeah, well, just, that's just a design. That's like, it's almost fashion. It's not like, yeah, yeah, no, not like the functional.

Not the functionality. But, you know, but I was involved with a lot of stuff that, more technical. But I'm not a airframe engineer. I work with them, but I'm not, you know. So anyway, but I, But I was a consultant for them for various things. Wow.

That's just side trick. I think I just realized something about you. So in terms of meditation, the way I see it is you basically learn how to quiet your immediate field to get access to the bigger field where there's more information. Yes. And most people are just like in the immediate instance constantly splashing the pawn of their immediate field. They're like all the time. Like the stuff that's right in front of them. Right in front of them.

So then that's the immediate language you're into. with the words you say. That's why everybody sounds so repetitive all the time. And because you're constantly excited, that's where you believe the boundaries are. That's my mind. But if you learn different forms of meditation, what you learn is to every time it tries to get excited,

it's like asking you. It's like, hey, excite me again. Usually you just tap, right? But then you learn to not tap. You just wait. And then eventually it quiets enough and you start seeing the further parts of the mind where there's like more interconnected information.

And it's actually easier to acquire some form of genius in a lot of different things because you all of a sudden see oh oh I didn't realize that's like connected oh then you start like connecting all these things right and essentially the ultimate path the Buddhist path is to stay not excited forever basically till till the moment that the full dissolution of the form just happens yeah but the degree to which you can do that that's the degree to which you how far you can see into the mind space so to speak well you create or recreate, meaning, what do you mean by that? Meaning that, you know, like you, if you're only a human plane, we have a language, we use all the same words, same phrases, and I'm looking around. And I take

things and I combine them and I recreate, regurgitate, recycle things that already are here. Versus if I can get beyond that, if I can shut down my language center, if I shut down the chatter right and then i also managed to even the filter system the filtration which basically what we travel to the spaces what some of these psychedelics do is is just jump over that's like a short cut short cut boom you just right there it just shoots you through the yeah yeah so so technically a little bit of a cheat but you know we we jump over that but you end up in the same space where okay i'm not bound by the language and i'm not bound by you know by the filter system so i was sudden have access to things that still you didn't create it because you just bring over the potential

you know you just bring over what can be but but you're outside of this regurgitated sort of recycled human space you're not reusing existing stuff you have a space now to bring things over and have original thoughts i'm doing it in an air quote because you know it's just my personal belief that you're just an antenna right and let's say you bring it for the first time here but Yeah. That's the innovation. Manifested. Meaning like, you know, we're living in this three-dimensional universe that we

accepted as a agreed upon reality. And by having these meat puppets, these exoskeletons of meat puppets, I guess I can call it, that can interact with this per se physical world. I can create things. That sculpture

exists because it was somebody's idea. And then that was a non-tangible, just an idea. It's energy. Sure. but it was not tangible, right? So that was an idea. We could argue about it like, you know, what an idea is.

Yeah, that's a good question. What is an idea? It's energy, but yeah, but it's a conscious energy. So that was first, and then somebody through the exoskeleton that we can control, the meal puppet, were physically capable of bringing that into this world. The same way that I need this body

and an instrument to create a guitar piece. a piece, music, right? But the idea, the melodies and all those things, the idea itself, we could argue about what that is and where it is from. My personal belief that the number of beings in the universe is one. There's one field of consciousness, and we have a capacity to capture some of it. Yeah, can you explain, I thought it was fascinating how you explained last night you had the cup. And you were explaining there's a lid on the cup.

Right. And through these practices, whether it be meditation or whether it be smoking DMT, you can basically lift up the lid a little bit. Right. And access that stream of consciousness or poke your head up above the water. Right. And you explained, I guess you had one experience with like 5 AMEO DMT where the lid just flew away. So yeah, basically, it's a thing about a jar, has a top. And, you know, we can.

So your compartmental. You contain and you have access to a certain amount of processing power. Yes. Right? So processing power meaning there's a general field of consciousness. You can call it a phenomenon. You can call it God. You can call it whatever.

But it's just one giant consciousness. And that's all there is. Right. And then we, these beings have a certain capacity to capture a certain amount of that. So we have capacity to contain or use or channel. a certain amount of this energy or this conscious energy. And so basically that was the idea. Like, you know, like you are the container.

We have these physical bodies at least perceived. And, you know, and I put my hand on the cop and look at that's all you got. And then certain meditation techniques or psychedelics start to create some cracks on that cop. So now to a sudden you are connected to this universal consciousness. And if I was to take my, you know, hand off that cop, then you know, you are connected. So somehow you almost like you delete the membrane.

Can you fill the cup up more and retain some of that and save some of it? You could grow your capacity. So grow your capacity of how much of that you can access on channel or on contain. Kind of like building a muscle. You're growing the cup.

Growing the cup. Growing the cup. Yeah. So you have a, you know, and again, this is, we're talking about something that we are using a language that these words and these concepts were not really used or often used. Right. So basically we forcing ourselves to describe certain things that, you know, there are not really words and concept for. Right. So we're using a very rudimentary tool when we, when we talk about these things. That's why it's amazing when we go into the space and we can talk about things. We both describe using language.

We describe certain things that we saw or happened or experienced, right? And that's the amazing part that we're giving you an 8-bit version of a 256-bit experience kind of, right? So it's like it's a, you know, it's a crypto-punk over it. actually happen right so so that's generally the the the issue that when we're talking about these things i'm using words and concepts that i'm kind of forcing they don't do it justice yeah it yeah they don't but but for the lack of a better explanation or you know i could say that that the point is to crack that lid open or take that lid off and you know the worst part of actually coming back from that space is understanding like i'm getting dumber by the second right like i feel it like man i understand

everything. I'm right here. And then you have to come back. And then you're getting dumber by the second. Because as you're losing that that connection or you losing that access is like, well, I've never met anybody dumb who's done a lot of DMT. Right, right. Everybody I've ever talked to who does a lot of DMT, they're super fucking smart. Right. Well, it's a, like you guys, relative. I'm dumb compared to what. You know, and it's, it's one of those things. But I think in general with all contemplative practices from meditation to psychedelics, any seeking beyond the immediate space that we're familiar with,

the best part of it is the practice. Like the difference, the main difference between the Eastern way of doing things and the Western way of doing things is then the Eastern way of doing things, the emphasis is fully on the practice and the experience of it versus the theory and the stuff that you believe about it, right? The dogma, whatever it is.

Sure. You might believe all the stuff about Jesus, but be nothing like Jesus. Yes. And you might believe nothing about Jesus, but be exactly. like Jesus, just by understanding certain things about life, about experience. And the point of, you know, in Vipasana, for example, the main point is to keep your lid open as long as you

possibly can and you don't resist and you don't push. And then what you watch happening is that all these little wiggles that trying to convince you that something is important right now, eventually when enough time passes and that thing expresses itself fully, you realize that it wasn't. And then there's only so many times this can happen to you before you realize, wait, say that again, all the little wiggles. Yeah, so the little wiggles, what I mean is that all these little things, all the little convictions you have of like what you quote unquote must do right now, right? You're like, you sit there, we can make it specific, you sit there, you just basically, you know, you scan your body in a particular way. You're trying to do that and thoughts constantly

interrupt, right? Like, oh, I got to each this place. So that's a, that's a simple one, right? Everybody familiar with that okay well what happens if you don't itch so the conviction in the immediate moment the mind goes like oh the world's like I got to itch like that's not a what if like no we got an itch right now okay and then you practice like okay well then let's stay five more seconds and then you wait and then eventually that it goes away like it never existed and that feeling of complete conviction did you have to it goes away with it so this so this so this sounds like, oh, that's just like an itch. Well, everything is like this.

The thought of like, oh, whoa, I got to call this person right now. Because, I don't know. Like, they're going to get upset or like all these stories you have, right? Okay. I mean, listen, if it's important and, you know, they need to get in your house to fix something, okay, I get it. But you don't need to panic about it. But usually, most things are not as important as we'll believe they are.

Yeah. And the point is that the stress that is created in our bodies, because we are convinced that we have to do X or Y are actually a much bigger problem than any X or Y. So basically what you practice is, how do you let things go, literally? Not in terms of how do you not push, not pull? If something is pleasant, how do you not get attached to it?

Like, oh, I want more of that. Or if something unpleasant happens, how do you not immediately recoil and try and push it away versus like, hey, you can fix it if it's uncomfortable, but you don't need to freak out about it. It's like, okay, how do I? just stay with it for a second. That's really the main practice.

Now, from that, from that simple practice, you start understanding that really it's the concentric circles, the fractal of life. Everything is like this. So when you try and get to like a solution or to something complicated, under pressure, you can be more or less successful in it,

but you will for sure be more successful in it more of the times if you can have a more quiet mind. A mind that is not constantly trying to compete with a million ideas of what's important, what's not important. If you know how to quiet that pond, the right ideas find you immediately. It's almost like as obvious as I just got to pick up this cup versus all these competition that happens in your mind. So I think that ultimately when you're looking at all the practices, meditative practices and the psychedelics, the lid part is just the realization that your immediate space is not everything. and most of the time

you don't have to make as much effort to achieve things as you think you do. It's more of just your neurosis, I don't even know how to pronounce that word. How do you say that word? What is the word? Neurosis. Neurosis, there you go.

Neurosus. The Hungarian guy. Yeah, that's the Hungarian guy. Neurosis. So your neurosis is basically the thing that really convinces you that something is wrong, when in reality,

you could have just relaxed and not say anything. So this is actually a perfect example right now, right? So it's making you like basically, this is basically you're comparing something like myopia of the mind to like seeing the forest for the trees. I was, I just want to say this was super interesting for me. I'm watching you guys talk, and every single thing you guys are saying is so fascinating to me.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, I have like, I want to say this thing about it, right? And then I was like, okay, but then you just wait a second. and then oh it was it was expressed i was like oh perfect but but imagine how much this happens in life right where you just like kind of like oh i got a i got to i got to do this it was like well what was your goal your goal was that that idea would be expressed well it was just expressed so don't worry about it right yeah just relax just relax but that is very difficult to do because we always want the the self-expression and we want to in some way to existence is already implying you there.

And if you can be comfortable with not being implied, the degree to which you can be comfortable with not being implied is the exact degree to which you're free. Because if you're okay, it would be completely to dissolve into the background, that's essentially nirvana. You just, it doesn't matter. You just kind of float there.

Now, given that's a very difficult thing to achieve because, you know, but that's really, that is the ultimate seed of the ultimate path, where there's really, you can enjoy whatever happens and you can, you know, you can go through very difficult times when they do happen. But the extra suffering on top of it with all the inner struggle of the mind doesn't actually have to be there and you can just let it go. It seems so counterintuitive to the way civilization is going, right? Because like everything we do, like everyone is just inside.

a rush to get shit done, you know? And it's like that's, to what end? That's what makes technology advance. That's what makes things more convenient. That's what makes more money. And like, that's what's pushed our society so far, like, to where it is now, to where we literally have self-driving cars and headsets where you can fucking fuck other people across the world on and like all this crazy shit.

But that's a great example. Like in a company, there's never, even when they say, uh, you know, they have an upward driven trend, right? But when, like, a company cannot stand the idea that there's a downwards trend of some sort. Like, there's a flux in everything, right? So if over 20 years the company always makes money, but some years it goes a little down, the year that it goes a little down, everybody are losing their minds. Yes.

Why? You know what I mean? Like, it's just part of a natural flow. Like, if the company is constantly losing money, has just not. not working okay that's a different story yeah but if you can have like you said the the myopic nature of it is a perfect perfect way of describing it it's if you can just relax around the down downwards trends which is literally in everything you can't escape it in stock market in in in in in natural processes in your life in every sell sell sell sell sell bye bye bye bye yeah and again it's

okay do not a line exactly no and this is why i keep saying you know i'm like i'm i love technology But it's absolutely true that if we don't if we have everything and yet we still can't enjoy it, what's the point of everything? Right. Yeah, it's finding that balance, basically. So I think that's what we were talking about is the end of childhood for end of spiritual childhood for this planet is coming. That's why these conversations and especially exploring these spaces, we've been talking about cyclex and D&T. is coming because what you guys right now talk about, we're talking about, is this chaos,

what's happening on this planet, this chaos comes from a very simple place. Again, none of us know what the hell is going on. What is our purpose? Why are we here? What is it we supposed to do? Yes. And in that chaos of not knowing what we're supposed to do

is where all this happens. Let's build this. let's build that. Like there are obvious things that we, as humans, we're trying to get away as far possible, let's say physical labor and difficulties.

So we build machines and we build help that alleviate that necessity. Now, eventually we're going there when human labor will be completely eliminated, right? Or most of it will be eliminated. AI and technology and robots

will do most of those things. And when that happens, that will be a massive change how this planet behaves because once human labor is unnecessary that will crush completely the financial systems because if you don't work, how do you afford the things that are being produced? And so that will completely change how money and finances

and everything works and how society works. Also, it will give you the freedom that now you can do really whatever the hell you want it to do because your physical label is not necessary. Also, the exploitation, of that will have to end because we don't need you to, you know, seed and harvest those, you know, I don't know, rice crops or whatever the hell. Or you don't need to go and mine because robots are doing that, right? So that is coming. That is definitely coming. And but there's the spiritual side

of that, like, that we're going back to the times where, you know, the great philosophers from from ancient times when they had the time to sit around and think about what the hell is going on. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, so I think. think our society or species I should say is going back to that point where we we will what we doing and core is what what we're talking about what our connection is like me and then it you know and a bunch of people who are in this space talking about is like okay there are answers in that space and and humanity the entire species needs to figure this out that because again there is science is science important? Yeah, but what science is is basically looking for answers for the same question.

Why are we here? What's going on? Or if you just think about, if science is looking for explanations, well, thanks. You explained how it works, but that doesn't give me the answer why am I here still. Right. So if you can scientifically explain how I exist or scientifically explain the processes and my biology and all that stuff, cute, awesome. Yay, right? But still did not answer the ultimate question what the hell is going on why are we here why this is happening the way that science is done now i feel like it basically decided that there's one modality to understand the world yes so the original question was always what is going on right yeah and then people came about went about it in different ways through religious religion philosophy fill in the blank right science came

along and it was another way of coming at what's going on yeah but it pretty produced a certain amount of tangible goods through that method that kind of verified it on a different level because it made something that everybody can see regardless to their inner seeking. So like they're just like, oh, it made a camera and make this and made that. And it is a very, very strong tool. But I think what the confusion became then is that that is the ultimate modality where, of course, it isn't. So like I always say that science. Yeah, well, capital S science for me, in the grand scheme of things, has to be just the enterprise of human understanding. That's it.

Which should include all the inner science, which is like what it's like to be you, what it's like to be a society. It has to do with everything that is contained within what we call existence, including experience and everything else. If you love diving into culture and comedy, like on Danny Jones podcast, playoff hockey is right up your alley. NHL on T&T has the best coverage, making every game feel intense and unpredictable. Playoff hockey is a different level, overtime, big hits, and no one coasts. The studio crew, with Paul Bissonette cracking jokes

and Wayne Gretzky breaking things down, makes it even more fun to watch. Every shift matters, and the personalities keep things lively. Watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on TNT, TBS, True TV, and HBO Max. So contemplative science is part of science, capitalized science. And it's only when we're going to start understanding that it's one project and bringing it together. So like the technical stuff, but also the hard problem of consciousness.

Like what is actually the connection between consciousness and all the technical stuff and how it works? And what Zoltan was alluding to is that we just started Code of Reality Inc. So I guess it's just in its infancy. And I asked Zoltan to be on the board of directors just to. to kind of help guide the process. He has a lot of experience, both in building things, understanding what works. And our ultimate goal is to basically bring as many smart people

from all the possible domains together to work on this problem without feeling the pressure of either being ridiculed or like we want to create a coherent picture of what it's like to have what we call capitalist science. So like the human, the enterprise of human understanding. Well, not institutionalized science. not institutionalized, more like

how do you create a container for people to come together? There's already think, by the way, this is not necessarily that, so there's a, you know, there are scientific endeavors that are doing it in that way or starting to do it in that way. Senephane Institute are doing that, that's a known thing.

They bring interdisciplinary minds onto a project. So like if they have a problem in engineering, they would still bring philosophers or even musicians to think about the problem together because there's certain understandings from other domains that are much more holistic if you approach it that way. Now and that those are very important things and we want to create something that will put

even a bigger emphasis on the fact that hey you bring a neuroscientist a physicist a really like experienced psychonaut work together to understand it because I keep hearing these like people think they're somehow domain shouldn't be talking to each other. They'll say like why are you talking about your experience with DMT from the perspective of physics? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, why wouldn't I? Like, it's part of whatever's going on. Like, yeah, but that's something it has to do with the mind. It's like, wait a second. Yeah. Is whatever the mind not somehow related to everything else that is physical? And this is super smart people. And they keep, there's this confusion that somehow there's this

separation because of the domains that we've created in our minds. No, that's biology. It has nothing to do with physics. What are you talking about? Of course it has to do with physics. We just don't understand that connection. So we want to create a container for people to express themselves in that environment in a way that will build towards a common goal versus just having like a patchy kind of interaction online that sometimes maybe somebody will stumble upon some information somebody else did in a different domain. We want to bring it together. And there's also, it's also by nature this thing, you can't really study this thing with the scientific method. Which one specifically?

With the DMT, with the DMT experience and with the laser. Well, I mean, Gallimore is doing that, right? Define science, right? Right, like reductive science, like the reductive method of solving or figuring out what the fuck is going on here. Right. I don't, I don't agree. I think it's just broader. So I think it's just like how wide the ontology you include.

So right now, if we can't actually put it in a fucking, on a scale and weigh it. You might. Right. But you're talking about science. When we look at science from the observation point of I major, I measure and I verify processes and see if. it's repeatable, right? Yes, exactly. But here's the thing.

Is it repeatable? Yes, because we are going, regardless of the method, regardless of what way, and it is a chemical process. So this is scientific. Something happens that a molecule gets introduced to your mind and I'll suddenly switch something on that I can access spaces that otherwise unaccessible to me. And when an other person and many of us, you know, doing the same thing, and then we can talk about very fiably.

the same thing, that you see the same things in that place, right? Even as a scientist, you're all hallucinating. It is pretty strange if you're hallucinating the same things. So it needs to be explored, right? So, you know, what the science look at things like, it's science if it's repeatable and verifiable. Well, you know, we, we can talk about a lot of psychonauts and they're going to tell you, draw you the same, let's say, beings that they saw, the same places that they saw. Right. So it's verifiably, very fireably, we have similar experiences. So that means we absolutely as a species. We need to explore this, right? Besides, you know, your body generates the empty. Right. So your lungs and your mind is manufacturing this to begin with. Right. So, you know, so needs to be. Now, if I just go from the individual perspective and say, okay, I'm in a space and I am seeing structures, incredible structures,

like incredible, complicated cathedral-like structures, right? When an ultradam is child's toy compared to what I'm seeing, okay. Then, you know, let's say if, let's say I'm hallucinating. All right, let's go with that right. If I am, then clearly my mind is capable of creating such complicated structures that was before unknown to me. If my mind can imagine these incredible things on its own, that means I need to step out of the way and let this mind roam and create and bring these things here. Or I am going to something that exists, something that is tangible.

And this is when the scientists drop off. Like, oh, you know, we don't. But if I can go back to the same places, which I can, I've been mapping this for over a decade and going to the same places, have fun. familiar places and then we have conversations with people who also going into this space. That's what I mean like childhood ends. This conversation is now out in the open. I haven't been talking about this, but I am because now all of people start to understand. So we have common references. If 15 years ago I told you or told anyone this, they would look to me like you're crazy. We have to have a common reference. Now enough people being in this place

when we have common references, there's a common library, even words that we use. People talk about the machine elves. Yeah. And everybody knows what you're talking about. Whoever being in that place. It came from Terrence, right? Right. But the thing is like when you have many, many, many people saying the same thing,

then it's like, okay, there's something to this, obviously, right? So if that's the case, then these places we're going to are more likely to exist than not. And what would fulfill the scientific, you know, question here? If we can talk about the same place completely independently, rescribe it to each other, many of us and it aligns, it parallels, then absolutely we need to explore this. So I think it's an absolute necessity. That's why I said there's forecast.

There are a child, the flower childs that jump into the space and like, woohoo, colors and explosions, awesome. There's that. Then the scientific minds, the explorers, like us who go into this place and, okay, what's happening here? We're going in there with a purpose and a question and explore. And then there's the scientists who would like to measure things and looking from the outside. And there are research on this, right?

But they're not researching it with using the molecule. So you cannot have the experience. So that's, you know, it's like that's a difficult, that's the barrier right there. And there are the unaware who has no idea. To be fair, DMTX is doing that. But I would say they are one facet of a much larger attempt at this. And it shouldn't be limited to the way they're doing it. And I think the main difference to what you said about that, I guess you can't quantify it,

that's because you didn't have a wide enough of a sample of it. So it was repeatable but not repeatable enough, right? Now it's repeatable enough because you have more people doing it more often and they can actually, so you had Dennis on, right? The legendary Dennis McKenna. Yeah. Wait a way, wonderful book that he wrote about his other than. Oh, the brotherhood from the screen abyss?

Incredible book. And here's the thing. What happened to him was particularly interesting to me because he was the one experiencing this incredible opening of whatever happened to them in La Chirra. And it is also the thing that made him recoil and go a different route into science. And then somehow through science,

he acquired this separation factor that I feel that when you trained in proper science, it happens. Because you basically are trained. to be lessenless fooled by your own inadequacies and thoughts and all of that stuff. But it's almost like you're now being convinced that there is no place to your convictions and all the stuff that you're experiencing. And the truth is that everything we do is just conviction in the aggregate.

Everything we do, like I always say, especially in neuroscience, is some consensus between what we can see that the brain is doing at the time that somebody's reporting something. Yeah. And then we just collect that data over many, many individuals. But that's the cash values from somebody reporting something to you.

Yeah. Right. So if you have enough of a sample, and this is where things like the code actually come into play, because they're repeatable enough for you to potentially try and actually probe in a way

that you would anything else in science. It's not like when you go and see the beings. It's like, well, describe to me the being. Well, it was a big spider. Wait, was a purple? No, it was black. Interesting. Okay, but you saw a purple one?

Yeah. I wonder how many years it would take us to reach any kind of consensus this way, especially because we know that the worst kind of data point on the planet is hearsay by a witness, right? So it's like, okay, you have to be able to record directly from the brain, right? But if you have something as concrete as the code, you can potentially do like perturbations to it, see if actually something changes. Now, it might pan out to a different degree and not pan out to other degrees, but that gives you the freedom to actually exploit it in that way.

Now, to be fair, again, you know, specifically with the code, people like Gallimore in a very good faith way from a scientific standpoint and say, well, you know, I do think that with all my expertise I'm saying that, yes, there are hallucinations that should be able to be mapped on this perfectly as you're describing. Fair enough, let's explore that proposition. There must be ways. The question should never be like, can you explain it away with science? It should be, okay, is there a counterpoint to what I'm saying? Yes, great. Let's explore how we can discern then whether it is what A or B. We should come up with experiments to make the discernment versus saying, can science explain it in the way that we perceive it currently? Sure, but we should explore how it explains it. And maybe what we should question is certain assumptions that science makes about the world. Because I think at this point it's pretty clear that at least physicalism, as it's perceived in the most naive way of it, which is like there's just physical matter and then they're just also rising from physical matter.

I think that's pretty clearly out. So I think it was really interesting what Gallimore said on that video. He was explaining, which you explained in the podcast was this term called objecthood. So it's like this idea of, and correct me if I'm fucking this up, but like you see,

I see this can, right? And I know it's a can because I've seen this a million times before, right? And I know it's on the table because I've seen this table a million times before, blah, blah, blah. But if it's the first time, I'm seeing this can, I'm going to be like, whoa, like, it's going to like freak. I'm not going to know

what to think of it because I don't have any sort of frame of reference for this can, right? To know that it's real and it's sitting here on this table. Just a small correction I think matters. It wouldn't be the can. It would be a can that is of a completely different gestalt. So you have what's called gestalt. So the basically frames, right? So you have this is, the way we perceive the world at the moment, you can think of this level of qualia for each and every one of us as a gestalt. So it's like, okay, it has a quality to it that I recognize, that I never think about, because it's the water race women.

Right. But this can is part of that gestalt. It's like, I know. So if another can appears with a different writing, you're not going to freak out. It's like, oh, why does it say, you know, these letters? Right. Well, what happens in DMT, which is why it's so interesting to so many people, that there's no argument about that.

The reason it's so unique is because it's a completely different gestalt. Like it's a completely different thing that you've never experienced before if you've never done it before. That would be equivalent to that can you're describing. But even in that space, and this is where it gets kind of dicey because on the one hand, Gallimore's point is

the reason that DMT is so interesting from a neuroscientific perspective is that it seems to be extremely coherent and we know the brain is not just receiving like a camera but it basically does a lot of guesswork according to what everybody knows to happen. so it's projecting from the inside. So if something immediately comes to you

that you've never seen before of a completely different flavor and it's super coherent, well that's difficult to explain in neurological terms because the brain is not just, again, receiving like a camera. It should have some form of inner representation of it.

With the case of the code, and this is why it's very unsatisfying because you kind of have to see it to really understand that point, there's, when you project the laser on the surface, the reason that it's very difficult to postulate that it's somehow the result of the light hitting that particular surface in a particular way

combined with a really psychedelic substance because whatever you see is not even on the surface. It's almost like you're now seeing a subspace that is hovering within our space and it goes infinitely into the x-axis with extreme coherence and it doesn't kind of dissipate as you would expect a random pattern to be.

it's a completely coherent framework. It's its own gestalt, and it's completely coherent on its own right. And your eyes are open when you is not... So, correct with my wrong, I've only done DMT once. Sure, sure. So when you see stuff,

is it typically in 3D space when your eyes are open? Or is most of the stuff you see with your eyes closed? You mean in DMT with general? Yeah. It depends what you do. Like anything.

Yeah. Like remember when you saw this console? It's a choice. It's a choice. Yeah, you can choose. So some of it would be, this is why it's dicey, because some of it would be mapped on

as a result of the extreme condition that your brain is under. And in that way, your brain might be transforming some things you already see and transforming it into something else. But the claim that we're making is there's other things that are not the result of that. They actually exist and you become aware of them.

So another question is, how do you discern? How do you make that discern? Which is where the conversation around the word objective comes in. Gallomers correction, just to be super fair, to what I said on your latest podcast, was that Anil Seth is using the word objecthood not to describe some objective component

of what real objects would have. Now, it's not actually what I was saying, but I understand his correction, because maybe it came across as if I was saying that. So I'm not saying that objecthood, that quality that Anil Seth is talking about, is somehow an objective component and this is how we can discern what's real

and what's not real. But it is good enough of a parameter to use to triangulate what might be more that thing that just exists and we become aware of versus the thing that is like a hallucination where it's just something your brain saw that is now incorporating into a larger cognitive structure

that it's making by itself. Because for all intents and purposes, the one point that is constantly being missed what is physical matter? Because in the end of the day, even if it's all mind, even if it's idealism and mind is the most fundamental thing,

whatever you picture about the world, something is regular enough that you can't walk through the wall. And I actually asked this, when I was out with Galmore, we were like meeting face to face and I asked him, but what is in the context of everything you know,

right? How would you define what's out there? Like, what is this physical? thing and he goes like the multi-billion dollar question man like that is the question because even if you do believe that everything is spiritual stuff ultimately something is happening that prevents you from going through the wall yeah and that part that there's a rule set and that part is constantly being overlooked by modern neuroscientists it seems that they're saying no but it's all you know it's all mine I'm like sure but we have to talk about what is it that gives it this quality of

being physical because there's clearly a difference between that and what I'm like there's a reason why it's so difficult to manipulate the physical stuff and it's so much easier to manipulate the mind stuff right there's a lack of malubility there that needs to be talked about this is why physics has to enter the picture and you have to combine our understanding of physics because there yes there are abstractions nobody has ever seen an atom and all of that jazz sure that's true however these abstractions help us to understand certain functionalities that we can make predictions on and it checks out. So like the reason we can build complicated things is because we understand something about these processes. So how do these processes then connect to what we call

consciousness, not just from a philosophical perspective, because where DMT is is exactly this margin. It is the event horizon between the physical and the non-physical, because it is so profoundly real and at the same time not physical. So it kind of You know, like the event horizon is like that's where quantum physics and classical physics meet because it's such an extreme condition. Extreme conditions allow us to investigate the deeper parts of nature. DMT is an extreme condition that allows us to probe into that question. What is the connection between the physical and the non-physical? Look at your dreams.

You can have a dream where your eyes are closed, but you're dreaming of the beach. There's light on the beach, right? Your eyes are closed. But you're experiencing in your dream of full color, the smell, the field, and you can have even lucid dream that you wake up from, I'm not even sure at the moment. When you wake up like, oh, was that real? Oh, my God. You're still almost physically affected by a dream.

What happened there? Right. How real is that? And what's the difference between right now and the dream? Right. Right. And so there's this idea that, not proven yet, but the idea. idea is that the empty is the reason that that's the fuel for the dreams for the dreams right does the

fuel from the dream dreams and so when we talk about that event horizon right and you look at that the dreams and how real is that and how real is this right the only difference is when you talk about the mind's work it's the same the only difference is that that in this reality that we perceive, if I move this cop and I wake up tomorrow, it will be still there, right? So wherever it is, tomorrow I come back and it will be there.

So there is some kind of permanence of this. And the code has that. Right. That's what I meant by the code has objected. It's clear to you it's there, just by observing it. So now it's very difficult in link linguistic terms. So to give you the, you know, people now email me all the time, obviously, with a billion theories, right?

And there are as many theories as there are people, right? That's the easy part. You can come up with all kinds of theories. What I'm personally interested in is what is it that we can postulate about the world along the lines of what we're talking about here with like the connection between consciousness and physicality that is actionable, repeatable, testable. Most of it will not pan out, just like in everything else in science. But my point is it should squarely fall within the purview of what mainstream science is

and it should stop being this margin thing that we're doing because it is the central substance of what, in fact, is going on. We have to be able to say something concretely about what it is instead of keep relying on very vague general statements like, well, the brain is a very powerful machine. Like, okay, well, you said nothing. Because, like, sure, you just said, I have a magic wand that can do anything. didn't explain nothing.

So like, what is it that that magic wand is doing specifically to make A or B or C happen and how it relates to what we can actually probe? What, you know, I'm in the habit of talking some of, about some of my ideas, but only to illustrate that there are concrete ways

along which we're thinking about this. They might not pan out, but here are propositions. What I'm trying to do is to encourage more smart people to think about this in these terms, in serious terms, I think the holographic principle is exactly correct. And there is a way to map.

So the holographic principle is a principle in physics. I think we talked about it a little bit less time. But essentially, I want to see if we can map onto what is happening with the laser and us and the universe in terms of a hologram. What is each component in the setup of a hologram that maps onto what our real world is? Because the holographic principle is one of the most promising frames in physics at the moment. So I think it's exactly correct, which is that we are a holographic projection from a two-dimensional filament. I think we're a three-dimensional projection from a four-dimensional, sorry, four-dimensional projection from a three-dimensional filament.

But that will take us far afield. But I think that in a hologram, you have the source light coming in. It's being split by a beam splitter. Each beam goes at separate ways. This one goes to a set of two mirrors or one mirror. This one goes to a set to two mirrors or one mirror. and then this one goes to an object hits a screen

okay that screen records the information that the beam hit after you already passed the object so if the first beam comes from here hits the mic from the mic it goes to a screen the screen records the information just like in a photo

yeah okay now the difference between a photo in a hologram is that the second beam that was split from the original beam comes from the set of mirrors from the side now and it meets this first beam here right before it hits the surface. So it stereoscopic. Essentially, it measures not just the amplitude, but also the phase shift.

And that gives you this ability to basically measure more information about from all directions of the whatever it hit, the mic in this case, instead of just hitting the two-dimensional imprint of the mic. So what I think, here's one proposition of how to think about this problem, and we'll see if it checks out. I think that we, our consciousness, whatever it is, is the ref- this is called the reference light, the one that comes from here. So I think we are the reference light. Literally, our consciousness is a form of light.

It's a reference light that hits the source light. It came from here. And where they meet, the source light and the reference light. Where's the source-light coming from? Big question. So that might be the source, God, whatever you want to call it. If you want to use this esoteric terms, I don't know what the source is. I have no idea.

whatever started it all, okay? But where they meet at the sheet, which in our case, I would say it's the bulk, which is space time, okay? The sheet that registers everything is the substrate of, whatever physical matter is, whatever space time is. So when the reference light and the source light meet, that instance, together with the bulk,

they create the triangle that creates conscious moment, conscious moment, conscious moment. It's the information being registered in real time. And I call it the pistons of consciousness. Like it's that of like instances of actual consciousness. Now, this sounds super theoretical, esoteric, cool. I think there's a way to map this

in a way that is testable. Because we can say, okay, if this is the reference light and this is the, if we are the reference light, certain things would be true and other things would not be true. What are they? for example there would be an related angle to perception

specifically with light so diffraction for example that would yield a certain kind of observation the second we get to the details of it and wouldn't yield other kinds of observations so if I make the turn 30 degrees it would create a certain coherence of the image and if I go 50 degrees

it might not create the same amount of... Now we have to get to the details of that and I need a lot smarter people than myself to actually think about that because there's a lot of math involved. But here's an example of how you can think about this specifically. You have to come up with a theoretical framework. They would lend itself perfectly for experimentation.

And then you have to run the tests. Ah, we tried 30 degrees. Didn't work. That must have been wrong. As Feynman famously said, if it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. That's the part that I feel that is missing. You either have people that are so far deep into the experiential side that they simply don't care about experiment.

They just want to keep everything being whatever they say. think it is and you have the other side the extreme on the other side which you have you have this form of rigidity where people just go like no it's only where we can we can verify with external tools yes that's another component of it I agree but it is not the whole picture there's certain things that we as the collectors of data that we are can experience that at the moment other instruments can't and that should be taken into account it complicates things I agree because people have aspirations ideas, confabulations, we're not a perfect, you know, thing.

But even though it complicates things, it's the only way to go. Because you have to include what we're experiencing if we see that we can, you know, recruit the right kind of people that are interested in finding out what's true instead of, you know, constantly just believing whatever it is. So you have to kind of bring it to a central point

where you both take into account the hard experiments, but you also take into account our agreements of what we think is going on in that instance. And that's somewhat to get... But this is just an example. I'm not saying it will necessarily pan out, but there are ways to think about these things in concrete ways. And I want to encourage more of that.

And I do think that actually explains quite a bit. So, for example, if you look at a hologram from the side, like a regular hologram, right, if we can envision it, if you notice the third... The reason I'm saying we're a four-dimensional hologram and not a third dimensional hologram is because the hologram when you look at it,

it's actually three-dimensional only it's implied because it's a two-dimensional sheet. The third dimension is implied. The fact that it looks like it has depth, right? But there's no actual degree of freedom if you would be that hologram, you can't actually move in the third direction.

It's just implied. But you can move in two degrees of freedom. You can't walk around it and see it from all angles. If you would be that hologram, can't, right? But we can move in three dimensions, which means we can't possibly, the third one is not implied. The third one is actual. Correct. So there has to be one more dimension that is implied, and I'm claiming that's time. The reason we

cannot move in time on our whim, because time is implied. It seems to be there. The change from moment to moment that we experience seems to be there just like the third dimension is implied in a hologram. But we have three degrees of freedom. So we are a four-dimensional hologram projected from on a two-dimensional sheet, which is the bulk, which is space time itself. Now you can say, well, the bulk is actually four-dimensional. I'm saying that time is actually implied.

The bulk is, the surface of it is three-dimensional. And again, this actually lends itself to real experimentation. Like, is there ways to curve the surface in a way that we can see that if we do that, then time would appear to move slower or faster, depending on our perception of it, which we know to actually happen, right? And again, this is... We can do forward, or we can do forward time travel.

Like, that's been proven. Well, at least your perception of it is, right? Like, it's like somebody charges you $50 to move 50 minutes in the future, and then you just go in there. It's like, all right, it'll take you 50 minutes to move 50 minutes in time. You have to somehow explain what appears to us to be the case in terms of what we think the largest structure is, which is what the business that physics is in, right?

It's just that it's constantly omitting the first person experience. And I'm saying you cannot omit it anymore. You have to somehow explain the fact that we're experiencing things a certain way. It's part of existence. And neuroscience will tell you, well, you know, these perceptions, these apparent time changes in your perception, they're just in your perception. Fair enough.

But is there a way to test for that? Is it possible that time for you is actually moving slower just like physically, it's moved slower closer to a mass in physics? Right. Is it possible that it's actually, your brain is taking less computational steps? Is it possible that it's actually moving slower because of whatever happens in your mind? I don't know. But I'm claiming there's a way to discern these things and it needs to be entertained more seriously in that way. Whoa.

I'm going to pretend like I understood everything. you just said. And then you can ask a question about time. Is there such thing? Yeah. Just the perception of it. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting idea, right?

The perception of time and time being a dimension. And like how does the dimension of time specifically relate to DMT? I don't know. One thing before you jump into that, I do want to say it because it's important. We just conducted the first official in magnet's experiment. Okay, yeah. That fall in terms of purposes, I think most likely is actually bunk. Like, I think it actually doesn't work.

Okay. But here's an example of us actually trying something. Okay. Something happened there one time, actually, with my fiancé, weirdly enough. All the subjects, including myself, we couldn't see any difference. So the experiment was we put a magnet behind the surface, we projected the laser on the surface from the other side, we smoked the empty, we look at it.

And I thought we're going to see some change because of the, if a magnet is powerful enough in the back. Behind the surface. If I just have a sheet of paper, I put a magnet here so you can't see it from here, right? And then you project the laser from this side. And then I'm smoking the empty and I'm seeing the code. I thought that if the magnet is powerful enough,

I would be able to see some kind of a change from this side that will tell me where the magnet is even though I can't see the magnet. You understand? Understand, yeah. I couldn't. Nothing, no change. So far for us, no.

However, there was one instance where we had a camera from above that sees, like, almost like sees both sides at the same time. My fiance, she just kind of jumped in and she just like, we'll probably, Aaron got very mad. He's like, we can't use this for them. Like, okay. But for the experiments, that might be viable. she saw, well, she didn't see, but she, I guess, guessed five times in a row the magnet was, exactly.

So that was strange, because I have to admit I didn't see any difference. Okay. So either there's some other component here we don't understand, or she just got super lucky. I don't know. We have to look through the data. But I just want to emphasize this because this is how it should be, this is how people should go about this. They should try whatever it is they think that might work. I don't know why we didn't think of actually putting,

because we had not that powerful magnets, but they were pretty powerful, like 100-pound magnets. And we should have used more of them, like also on the laser itself to see if anything. And we had, my good friend Pablo as an engineer, helped us create the rotating magnets experiment by Persinger. He helped us create a device. By the way, it was suggested by John Chavez, shout out to John,

who also, by the way, invested in our film quite a bit, so thank you, John. And basically, the rotating magnets is something we can maybe put the laser in between and rotating the magnets and see if that does a difference. We didn't do that. We're learning. The larger point is, there should be more of that.

We should just test this in this way. And if it doesn't pan out, it doesn't pan out. But we're going to keep trying. And I want to encourage more of that. This insistence that where I feel that I mostly depart with the way that Andrew chooses to go about this, again, I have tremendous respect for him. And we had since then really great conversations. But where I would openly disagree with him is that there's this insistence that DMT is so crazy

that there's no way anytime soon we will ever be able to make sense of it. I'm saying that attitude actually shoots you in the foot. Because if you decided that, of course you're not going to make progress. You have to believe that it's possible to actually discern certain things. And maybe even he does think that in other ways, maybe he just disagrees with specific way which I'm doing it but this is the way I choose to go about it and I want to encourage more people to do that and not to get caught up in what they want to be true if it doesn't work out say it doesn't work so we can proceed to the next

thing so we can try another thing so we can all think about it together well his I think one of the things that he said which struck me was or one of the questions that he asked was what makes this code any more real than anything else that you see in DMT world, right? Like, for example, like the beings. It's closer to what this is. It appears to be closer to what this table is. So it's, it's, it's always the same thing.

It's matter like, no matter who it is. No, it's as real. I'm claiming it's as real as Jupiter is there. That's what makes it different. Huh. So like, when you explained that console thing that you saw, you, you, you explain that sitting in 3D space, that was anchored. Yeah, it's just exactly.

to the floor. You could walk around it and see all around this whole thing that was there. So it was similar to that. Oh, yeah, I see it all the time. So that would be the equivalent of, oh, you still see it all the time? 100% of the time. Every time I smoke. Every time you smoke, you see the console? Oh, yeah. Holy shit. Did I send you the, uh, uh, Lazzlaw

or a VR guy? He's much more than a VR guy, but he's also a VR guy. Uh-huh. He created a, like a fully immersive environment with the representation of the console in it. And it really delivers how real it is. Now, this is like Zoltan says, an 8 version of the real thing.

But it delivers how real that is for me. But that's just me. The reason the console is much less impactful is because I can't, I don't know what to do to make other people see the console. Oh, right. But I can show you the code. You don't use any sort of external devices like the laser to see the console. The console just appears.

No, it just appeared. It's as real as this mic for me. By the way, the console, there's a small anecdote and unrelated to, not going to be that interesting probably. But the console was doing something. when we were shooting that experiment that it never did before. Usually the console opens up and it has a lot of sections all over the room and only the very small sliver of menus come and like follows me,

but the rest of the console just kind of hovers in the room. It's almost like the body of the console, right? It has different sections. One of the sections, the more physical sections, the one that is just always there, came out and started scanning the people who were looking at the laser. I've never seen that before. Yeah, it was like a plate that came off.

it was scanning them. Like, it was interested in what we were doing. I've never seen that before. Again, this is one of these, like, you know, trip report. I don't know what to do with that. It's not a... People say, hey, can you release the next video of the console? Because I'm working on one.

And I'm like, dude, I need to have some information there that I didn't have the first time. And I don't have that yet. I want to say something new. I don't want to just keep repeating, you know, what we already said. And if I'm not sure, I'm not sure. Zolson, how many times have you seen this code? So maybe four? Four times.

But, you know, the idea is that eventually this will reach a critical mass. You know, there was a time when we had an idea of a geocentric universe, right? And who thought that was geocentric? The scientist, it wasn't the workers in the field. You know, it was a scientist who agreed to. And, you know, so there's a scientific class agreed to something that wasn't the case. and then came, you know, Copernicus Galileo. There were people who thought, well, I don't think that's the case, right?

And at the time, that was the craziest idea. It almost caused their lives. They definitely caused their freedom, right? And it had to reach a critical mass where it flips. People start to be interested in this deeper because there's a critical mass of people, right? And that's what, so that's, that's kind of what's happening. That, you know, like what, what, what he was explaining is a, he's actually approaching it in a very scientific way, right?

Of, you know, scientific mind will get into the space and we'll try to analyze it. And that's the point of these experiments. That is there a scientific way to prove beyond the anecdotes that there's a code, we all saw it, right? That's, that's an anecdote. And how do you physically prove that? But eventually there are going to be enough people to see this code. That's what I mean by a critical mess will happen.

Or enough people venture in this space. That's why I said end of childhood spiritually, that more and more people venture in this space. And our anecdotes start to be parallel. Right. When it's just simply not, you know, I'm coming from a pragmatic, more of a spiritual direction and a scientific direction,

but I'm just pragmatically saying like, you know, when 10,000 people say that, hey, man, I saw this. And our experiences are verifiable in a way that there's a mass of people that saw this, right? Then it's not possible to ignore anymore. It is asking for the, it is asking for the scientific community. Like, well, we got to look at this. Right. And the whole idea of basically creating the encode, the DMT TED talks, that a community that can start comparing notes. And then there is enough data just alone by witnesses, right?

Then is it tangible evidence? Well, you know, when 100 people saw you rob the bank, you probably robbed the bank. It's just one of those things. by the way, did I tell you that we might have figured out a way to see the code without the molecule? No. What? Yeah. So, David Carter, the other board member, who approached me a few months ago with the opening line,

you don't know, but I've been following you for a while, which is a disconcerting. He's probably get that a lot. No, no, he's incredible. Carter's incredible. So he basically, I guess the best way to describe is who he is a large, he would say is a organizational expert, but I think he's a large scale problem solver. So basically he worked from everything from government projects, software development is big into crypto and AI now. He understands what makes big processes work.

He even worked on some classified projects. And he said, look, about a year ago, back then when he reached out, to me, I ordered the laser, I saw the code, I never reached out to you, but I started basically talking about it in my circles. And because I have a certain reputation, people listen to me, he said when I would go to these conferences, I would like, when we're at the end of whatever conference we are, I would like whip out the laser and start showing them. And I said, wait, what were you showing them? It's like, well, here's the thing. I have a certain kind of reputation. So this was a prop. I was removing one more step for them to venture into. So

like instead of me telling them, there's this laser, I'm like, oh, here's the laser. And I would just turn it on. It's just a simple defracted laser. But I was telling them, like, I've tried this, I've seen the code, and I'm explaining where you would see it. And people got so interested because they are looking for this next step of understanding. So David recently told me that I haven't seen it myself yet, but he is, you know, there's a certain, well, reputation that he has with, like, being accurate with what he's saying. He said he thinks they figured out a way to see some visibility of the code with these old sensors of Sony cameras that had this night capability. And if we string a bunch of them together, I think we'll be able to see it much more coherently.

Now, if it's true, that will automatically change the conversation entirely. And there's also a team from Japan that apparently from 2014 was collecting data from light coming from stars. and they discover that they can actually discern statistically at this point pretty concretely that there's information in there. There's some kind of code. There's some kind of glyphs running in there that is not peridelia. They can actually discern that now with machine learning. It's not what? Periodelia, which your tendency of your brain to just make shapes out of nothing because your brain is really good at creating patterns.

So they can discern that this is not it, that it's actually real information of something. I'm sorry. So all of these things are kind of converging, but I just wanted to mention that because Zoltan keeps referring to the end of childhood of humanity. Yes. I really think that all of the stuff that I mentioned before, these crescendos that are all arising at the same time, the reason that you have all these like very animated conversation here about, you know, God and what are these, the disclosure and all of this stuff is because something is happening that is bigger than us, but not in an esoteric sense, but in an actual sense.

It's actually happening. And the reason that I guess there's, maybe urgency is the wrong word, but maybe more of an attention needed on this than currently is being allocated to it, that is an important component. We can no longer pretend that it's just a nine to five,

we go to work, everything is normal. Even the people that think of it more in terms of like the, you know, I think the UAP community, the disclosure is a good example, is because I've had the conversations with people from that community. And when I asked the question, have you ever considered what you're going to do the day after the disclosure? There's always silence.

Yeah. Because that's really the important part. Okay, disclosure, now what? Right. How do you envision yourself being a moment after? You've got to find a new dragon to chase. That's exactly it. It's interesting that you said about the light,

I don't know, stars, because in that space, I did have that experience that it's much more than just light. And I saw this scientific paper we're talking about like, well, the electromagnetic processes within a star are much more complicated and much more than the processes in our brains. So is that possible that they have consciousness? Theoretically, yes. That's kind of insane. you know but when we're talking end of childhood like look

if if humanity right realizes its purpose like if that question gets answered of why are we here what we are doing that would be such event that probably the most monumental one

and it sounds to me that you're going to most likely find that answer or get close to the answer in that space, not in the scientific explanation of how processes work. The process is just a result of the much deeper space. Right. I was going to ask when you're studying this stuff and when you try to help more people become

more aware, like the only way to study this is to have obviously lots of people look at it. If you have a million people look at this thing and 900,000 see it and 100,000 don't. Or to see a way to substantiate it on a screen or to send the information. directly into some kind of a chat gpd. But at the same time, when you're saying like, we're seeing this code, like how do you eliminate this confirmation bias that they're expecting this to see something? Isn't that a way to that people would attack this? Say, look, these people are expecting this and they're already seeing something like it's not double-blind.

So that's two separate things. One is the people attacking it, which they will. It's just natural. That's how you make stuff. That's fine. That's fine. So that's a non-un point for me. People can attack it all day. If it's real, like I always say, as Terence used to say, it can take the pressure. I don't mind that. Exactly. The second part of your question is, even Gallimore, you haven't watched the full video yet, but at the end he says it. I watched, I finished it last. Oh, you finished. Okay. So you know how he says, which is actually a self-contradicting point, which I alluded to in my response video, which is he says that priming doesn't have this longevity that people attribute. to it with the code. And yet he himself somehow... Priming doesn't have... It doesn't have this longevity. So priming is, if I give you a cold drink to hold,

if you don't know me and I ask you general questions, most people would have more negative kind of things to say about the person. Same thing with a warm drink in the other way, okay? That's priming. Okay. I'm priming a certain state that makes certain general occurrences more likely. Priming does not work with specific content, hyper-specific content, that I would convince you. If I say, so here's, this is easily testable. If people think it's priming, take a group of

people that you know for sure didn't hear about this, right? Sure. And then tell them about elephants. Inject it subliminally, talk to them about it, do all of that. And then show them the laser. Yes. Okay. If they still tell you they see Japanese letters, can we then agree that this is not it? Right. So that's easily testable. Okay. The other point that people make, which is like, oh, but, which by the way, I've done, I've told people something else and they came back and said, I didn't say what you told me, but I saw these weird, they said Chinese. Like me, I saw the gears.

The gears you see in the beginning, yeah, but it's just the way it appears. But the other point of like, yeah, but if you do make it big enough, I was like, okay, hold on. So you're telling me that you believe that if one guy can say something convincingly enough, you can then convince the entire earth that something is there, well, then I think that's a whole phenomenon. all by itself we should study then. Because what are you talking about? People go to the DMT space all the time, right? How do you know about the machine elves? Somebody told you about it all the time.

Exactly. So are we saying, oh, we shouldn't talk about machine else because if we're going to keep talking about it, it's going to be conformational bias, and then how do we know if they're real or not? Well, the only difference here is that I'm claiming that this is actually real, which was already in the zeitguise,

already in the conversation. I think it's the level of emphasis that I'm giving it that people are uncomfortable with. they're uncomfortable with the amount of certainty I have about it, which I get, right, which I get, but at a certain point you have to admit when you do know what you know. So the reason that I'm saying things with this amount of conviction, the things that I am saying I'm knowing with conviction,

again, to remind everybody, the only thing I'm saying that I know for sure is that whatever it is, people say, why are you calling it the code of reality? I don't know, it's a placeholder. It kind of looks like a self-executing code. Do I know it codes for all the environment and everything? Of course not.

here's what I know for sure. Whatever that is, exists on its own side, even when you're not looking. It's a real thing. Or if you want to say, yeah, but everything is mine, okay, even within that frame,

whatever it is that you mean to say the external environment, within the perception that everything is mine. However you want to play the language game, it is an external thing to you as you are perceiving yourself right now. That's a real thing.

That's all I'm claiming. Why I know this with absolute amount of uncertainty? Well, there's a certain long process I went through personally over years and years and years, before I even spoke about this publicly, where I actually never assumed anything about it. I just allowed it to unfold. I just kind of looked at it for what it is. I didn't really land on any conclusion or anything. And eventually, with a lot of hammering into me, with like insistence from the other space to say, yo, what else do we need to show you? And I'm like, wait, so you tell me they're like, yes, yes, it's what this is.

I was like, oh, they're like, thank you. So then eventually you go, okay, I know this is real. I no longer feel the obligation to pretend to think that maybe. I don't think that maybe. I know for sure. Does that mean that everybody has to have this amount of conviction? Of course not. But I don't feel apologetic for the amount of conviction I have

because at a certain point there is such a state of the brain of the mind called knowing. It's a very limited knowing. It's a very small portion. I'm not claiming to know the ultimate secrets of the universe, but I know I can't walk through the wall. Do I know this?

Yes, I know this. Do you know this? Yes. And anybody who insists otherwise is just playing a weird language game, right? You know you can't walk through the wall. Let's not be silly. Okay, I know that the code is there

as much as I know that I can't walk through the wall. So at a certain point, I have every right to have the conviction that I have and I can defend these convictions and anybody has the right to criticize my convictions, which is exactly the situation we're in. The move that the other side sometimes makes, which is like, if you would just have less conviction,

I would be more comfortable with it. Well, that's not, that's you. That's not how this works. That's fine. But we're going to have the conversation with the amount of conviction we're going to have for both ends about it. And the only thing that would substantiate it ultimately

is if something comes from it, if something that can actually comes to fruition from me. it. Up until this point, the main criticism was, well, if these things are real to any degree, how come they always so elusive? How come they don't really leave any mark or like real information behind? Well, here it is. Here's the thing. Let's start playing with it. And now people push the horizon even further. Jero, get the feeling that maybe this stuff wasn't meant to be studied and scientifically proven. Why is it discoverable then? That seems to be an arbitrary point. paradox maybe maybe maybe it just wasn't meant to be known by everybody that's maybe this thing was

maybe this thing isn't meant to change humanity right maybe it's not meant to help humanity mature or evolve maybe it's just for specific people to discover on their own and it's not there are you familiar with this study there was this john hopkins study that went on i just had this journalist on here named Travis kitchens who was a part of a john hopkins psychedelic study research study in like the 90s or early 2000s with a couple with a what were the gentlemen's names who started that study like the guys that were like the pioneers of the psychedelic renaissance were a part of this study and it was this study where they brought in a bunch of people from different religious part a bunch of different religions like they brought in a Buddhist a Jewish

Jewish person Christians people like the heads of all the faiths right who had different religious beliefs put them on psychedelics and tried to find out what the common theme was behind all of their experiences and how they projected their own religious frameworks onto it, right? And they had this hypothesis

that of this idea called perennialism. I don't know if you've ever heard of perennialism, but perennialism is this idea that all religions came from one common source. Like they're all drawing from one source which is goes back to like some of the stuff like Brian Morescu talks about is like the

Elyucinian mysteries and the Greeks were experiencing this psychedelic they were going into this DMT state or the psychedelic state where they were seeing God right or they were they were experiencing these things that eventually got translated into different religions right for different reasons which you know religions kind of like Christianity has spiraled out of control and became you know, this thing that we know of today. And like, it's like the ultimate goal of this was trying to find one common core to all religions and to all human belief and the core of human consciousness almost, right? But it's like to me and what Travis pointed out great was like, I don't think, I don't think it really matters that much.

Right. Like if you're a Christian or if you're a Christian or if you're a Christian. a Buddhist or if you're a UFO person or if you're a psychonaut who thinks that, you know, whatever you believe, as long as your belief makes you a better person, more power to you. I tell you why it doesn't map onto the way I see it. Because the answer to your question, is it possible that is not meant to be entertained by everybody and it's not supposed to help us? The answer is, of course, maybe, yeah, maybe sure, maybe you're right.

But that's a lot of maybes, right? the more reasonable way to proceed, I would say, is to look at how any other big understanding in human history ever happened, which is always a correction of the map. The reason that in some domains, it might be okay to hold opposing views about different things, but in other domains it isn't. I forget who gave that example, but it's a perfect example.

The example is, if you think you're in a ship, And you go out and you just open the window, crack the window because you want some more air. But you happen to be on the submarine and you get confused. It really matters. No, forget about the fact that you can't really open the window and a submarine. But let's say you could. The point is, if you don't understand the situation you're in, you might make moves that can be detrimental. So making the map match the territory is a very important, it's a very important endeavor.

And just notice that whenever people sailed outside. of the domain of the current conviction of society either intellectually or physically into the ocean you're going to fall off the face of the earth what if just stay here what if we're saying hey wolves are going to come to the village either you like it or not you have to understand always the larger environment you're in it's just the nature of the game and if then you want to say well look i understand the game has worked this way so far but maybe this is it this is the limit well that's an arbitrary limit. This thing can be connected though. You can connect this to you. The conversation you were saying about the various religions, right? And what then he just said. So there's a actually connecting

element here. One is starting with every single religion, right, is in the realm of verbal communication. What we talked about originally, the filters and beyond the filters. And so it's in a box of language. Right. So whatever religion that is, the search is the same ultimately the question is the same what are we where we came from is there an entity that created us or how does this operate right

and all that happens in the verbal realm yes because regardless of the religion they use a set of a language be it Sanskrit being Hebrew being English being whatever it is right you are operating

in that box. And everything that you can talk about is a loose description of something. So you have to move outside of the box, outside of the language, and move beyond that point where it becomes an experience. When it's an experience, I'm pretty sure the experience is exactly the same

to every, in quote, religion. The split comes from the different culture and language that you're explaining or talk about the things. But if you go to the experiment part, which is outside of language, which is below, before the filters, right,

that takes out information, then it's probably exactly the same. It's your description of your experience, is what difference, right? And then, but then he was talking about the functionality of, of, yes,

it is our purpose, maybe, to go and experiment and figure out things and, and have answers to this ultimate, question. What are we doing here? Why are we doing it? Now, you equated to the submarine that you might open a window that you shouldn't be opening, right? This could be true that we could be

barreling down in paths that, you know, that are not exactly optimal or even detrimental, right? But if we just stay with the pragmatic, the absolute pragmatic basics, then the experience, the experience of it, right? When it's nonverbal, it's most likely the same. So this is the language and the descriptions that separates it into different buckets of religion. And the question always going to be the same. Why?

Why? Right. What is the purpose? Right. So that is a fundamental question of all. Everything else is a subset of that. Yeah. The ultimate question is what is happening?

Why is it happening? What is our purpose? Right. That's it. And I think that's part of the human brain's operating system is to ask that question why. Because everything comes from something, right? We both came from our parents, came from our grandparents. A plant of a tree comes from a seed planted in the ground.

But like, where did the first one come from? The very, very first one is only by us being able to have the gift of reason is to believe in a God. I don't think it's human. The question is general, right? I think in any other species, any other species exist in this universe, will have the same questions, the same exact question.

It doesn't matter that you grew up in a different solar system, in different circumstances. The question will be the same. And it would be asked on the level that you can entertain. So for an amoeba, the form of the question would be,

how can I be more comfortable? Oh, this is too hot, I'm going to move to the shade. But the question always drives the process. That's a completely natural thing in existence itself. Yeah. So to then put an arbitrary stop to it because of other things we think we understand. Because notice that everything you described, there are also conceptual frameworks.

There are also other things that people claim to understand. So it's just a competition between the frames of understanding. Yeah. So the example with the submarine illustrates, what if there's something you're supposed to do and you're not going to do because you didn't understand where you are? is there a cliff there and you thought it was just a two-dimensional shape but it's more than that so you have to understand that you own that path right and so the answer to most times like should you know almost in every instance it's yes it's always better to know and then to do something about it versus

not know there are some limited cases that I would say like if a meteor is hurling down towards us and we have three weeks to live is it better to know in this limited instance maybe not because in three weeks we're just going to panic and it's not going to be better. Right. But these cases are much more rare than all the other cases. Like, is it good for us to know how to synthesize polio or to build the atom bomb? Well, it's good for us to know that that's a possibility and then kind of work around it. Because to say we shouldn't have never discovered it, that's just postponing the moment

in which it will be discovered someday. It's always better to know something and then to do something about it properly. And that's why I'm saying, the attitude of the monkey, is we keep pointing to these external things is the blame but it's like if if we can get our act together then we can stop pointing right that i can drop a paradox on top on this please i can drop a massive paradox okay so because because it makes sense right that we should know but knowing knowing that we shouldn't know is also knowing i'm gonna give it yes i'm gonna give you into a actual experience that I personally had in the space, deep in the space. I've been there

hundreds and hundreds of times and there are different levels. And I'll give you an actual example when it's non-verbal communication, how data comes to you just know and it's independent of time. So meaning when you're in that space, you just out of a sudden know something. And it's almost it didn't really take time. So it's not like there's a book of knowledge and it takes time to absorb that. It's just, oh, I understand. And it's instant, right? And so

there was this moment where I realized that we are being in that space. And when you reach this idea that you know, like what is that the Buddhists talk about, where

is pets are talking about this oneness. When we took off, my hands from the cop and then you you realize like oh there's this one consciousness right and there's the obvious question like why are we compartmentalized well in that one consciousness that this it's absolute there is nothing else just this one consciousness and in that state if you can absorb that for a second is the loneliest existing that it can be it has no companion because there is nothing else but it that's it right just one just one but dot one this universal consciousness this soup of everything is one coherent consciousness and it is for a lack of better word is it's the absolute loneliness

because it has no companion however in a second you're compartmentalized now in a cup you're a sub-process right then you're not in that absolute consciousness. You're surrounded by others. Correct. So at a sudden there are a process and there is noise, there are experiences can be, can exist, right? And so I had this perception of the job, our purposes,

is that every possibility can be experienced. And it's almost like your function. And it will take away some sort of a, some sort of an anxiety of human existence. Because am I doing my purpose? Yes, we all do. Our purpose is to experience, live this life. There's no way out.

You were born into this life and you're absolutely have to live it until you're not living, right? There's no way out. That's the process. And the process is that you're living at one set of possibilities. It's your possibility, your possibility, and your experience is not going to be anywhere near to anyone else's. It's very unique to you. Right. And so this set of data was fed to the absolute consciousness. This experience, yours,

yours was fed and yours was an all of ours. So this, the phenomenon, God, whatever you want to call it, experiences all the possibilities, the infinite possibilities, and you are that subroutine, that experience this one. So whatever it is you're doing, you're doing your job. You're living your life, you're experiencing and you're feeding the data. Now, you do have free will and you can choose what you're going to experience. You actually do have that power. But the process is you are living your life and feeding the data, right? And in that particular moment, I had this on understanding of if I'm searching, if I'm out of the pen, searching for that consciousness, searching for God, searching for those things, if I was meant to understand and meant to know,

it wouldn't be hidden. But it would also not be foundable, don't you think? It is, it is fondable. If I meant to, well, here's, that's the paradox. It wouldn't it be foundable even in principle. Well, but that's a paradox that you can experience that, but immediately the experience. But immediately, the experience is don't look for this do your job which is experience life go live experience and and have that feed that to the akashik records or whatever you want to call them right that's if you understand that then it takes away some kind of a some kind of an anxiety now it works for me this experience that you've had some people call it the void i've had it uh michael paulin talks about actually on the Joe Rogan experience where he was so grateful when he came back that it was content.

He was like, oh my God. Did Rick Strassman also talk about this? It happens to a lot of people. I don't know if he specifically talked about it. I think he said he was on a five MEO DMT and he went to like a white room. Yeah, the wide out or the void. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to me, I'm hearing this and I've had this and Zoltan is absolutely right.

It is the most gutting feeling you can possibly have. But I always say I think there's still something to be said about the fact that you're experiencing it from still from some unitary perspective. You're still an ego experiencing the ultimate just loneliness, right? So that's why it's so gutting. But because on the other hand, you have other people that are talking about like, you know, when he experienced that,

it's just the biggest, the fullest of, like the fullest freedom. But I would say that specifically with the code, not necessarily with this, because with this, I am open to interpretation and all of that. There might be a balanced place. I agree with that. With the code in particular, something else jumps at me, which is the fact that it is very,

recognizable on a level of a human because if this is some kind of a thing that codes for you know the function of reality it could have easily been been just the the wiggles just the signals why does it appear as a language right discernible to creatures like us right that is the question that makes me feel like that's a breadcrumb versus and the fact that it was I didn't it wasn't a hepescence it wasn't like a laser was on and I smoked some and I saw something I was like what is that that's not how it happened I aimed there for years and something was giving me hints so all of these things together and it didn't feel like one of these like you know that to the degree that I

can discern energies the energy of whatever that was guiding it was like it was it was like a blissful energy it wasn't like the the other thing right so in that sense can it mean that we now have to come and face something that is difficult to face? Maybe. But that means that we were led to that and that was part of what we need to go through in the next step of evolution. This part of the conversation

whenever I get to it, I'm very careful because I don't really know what is unfolding like Zoltan said. But my strong intuition is that it is unavoidable and we're going to experience it in different ways either way. Like we're all going to experience it in some form, this transitional moment.

and it is it's shrouded with so much speculation that I'm not sure that I think that more words confuse people than do any good but the most general thing I can say about it is that everybody can feel that something is happening and either you were a person you know some kind of a aboriginal person in the A somewhere that you have zero technology it's going to communicate to you with as much coherence that it needs to in a way that you understand as to anybody else who's living with a super advanced technology. This might be just our version of how it's trying to express itself. And I know it sounds super esoteric, but my intuition is that whatever it is, we don't, people talk about 2050, 2040, singularity.

My feeling is we have maybe two years. Like, this is not a, like, in 20, years from now. This is now. It's now it's happening. So like it's no longer a drill. And the degree to which some of us can understand it and help become part of the process they're trying to unfold, which a lot of is actually letting go, letting go of the self-control, letting go of what we think we understand. This is a very big practice for me at the moment because the more I talk about it, the more the weight of certain kinds of responsibilities kind of dawns on me. And then the only thing I can do that keeps me sane

is to constantly drop into the space of like feeling what it feels like to be the unit that is doing this, talking about this. If I start telling you something and inside I have this like very strong impulse I was like, oh, okay, maybe I'm not supposed to talk about that.

So it's like, maybe not right now. So I'm constantly aware of that. Is it anything more than some ideas I have in my psychology and maybe nothing more? Maybe. Maybe. Completely open to that.

But we have to stand somewhere to make some assumptions with certain amount of certainty. You will never get to a place. You surf, right? Yes. Great. In any activity that has real outcomes in real time, there's certain things that become super clear. You have to have a certain amount of conviction. One of those things is you have to have a certain amount of conviction about your ability to do something to be able to do it.

The more you second guess it, there's way less chances you're going to enter. flow or any state in which you can actually execute the task. How it exactly happened when you were on the wave perfectly, every single muscle of the bunny maneuver you might not be aware of. But how to drop into that space is the thing you become better and better at the more you do it, right? But notice that there has to be some level of conviction. The more you second guess it, the chances you're going to crash are way higher. And that's with everything. If you want to entertain a scientific idea, you have a certain amount of, you have to have a certain amount of conviction that it might work.

I'm not talking about biases. It's like you have to know that there's maybe a cash value there. Okay, then you proceed. If you second guess it to a degree where you're not even going to be like, well, it can be infinite million other things. You're not going to have enough of a drive to even act on it, right?

So that's where I'm coming from. I'm going to entertain this frame, see if something comes out of it. I am in full liberty after a certain amount of time go, you know what? We tried it. Didn't work. Let's go back to the old frame.

It's a legitimate move. There's no problem with that. And I think of what most people don't recognize is that we're always doing that. Like, even our current conviction of the scientific zygai's, this is also a form of a thing we agreed upon. That's a good way to do this so far.

It's going to take a lot to replace it if we ever get to replace it. Fine. But you have to have a certain amount of conviction to kind of go in the face of it, but not even resist it. Just like, I always say, whatever it is that we're going to find

has to also match everything else we already understand. It's never going to replace everything. That's not how it works. So I guess my bottom line is there's a certain fluidity and a certain amount of rigidity that we have to constantly play with that can help us find our place in this unfolding. And I'm fully aware that this kind of talk immediately sounds more like a, you know, like a sage would be talking, right? It's like, oh, you have to, but I don't think it has to be. I think we have to be. I think we can talk about things that may be unfolding

that are greater than our current ability to understand in a way that makes sense to us collectively and personally without constantly asking one another

to pay a penalty for describing it in that way or another way. If I'm understanding what you're trying to do, I'm not going to waste energy or trying to correct every single word you say.

I feel you. Like, okay, I understand what you're trying to say to me. And if you're struggling with saying it, I might even help you say it, right? That should be more of the attitude. And that also holds the seed in all human endeavor. In science, in politics, and everything. If we have a little bit more charity towards one another, it was like, what are you really trying to say?

Oh, okay, I get it. And again, it sounds, I'm aware that what I'm saying right now sounds like, bro, what are you talking about? You were just talking about science. Now you're talking about some kind of a human interaction? It's part of it. if everything in science is done we have the scientific method awesome let's go with it

we don't have to be dicks about it like scientists don't have to be dicks to one another to achieve an accolade that's part of it if you're gonna work together on something major wouldn't it be better if we also feel comfortable and safe to do that in a way we can explore it's like oh that didn't pan out but we don't have to make you feel

like shit about it and I personally don't care because I'm not in that world really and I have all the love that I need in the world but I am noticing that it's a big pain point for scientists. I have two physicists who are totally on board to help out, but they said, I have to be consulting. I can't put my name on it. I'm going to lose everything.

Right, right. That's crazy. Back to Galileo, man. That was the scientific community that had rigidly that idea. And, you know, we can play the water-abarism all day long. So the conviction of the experience that's what you're talking about like you have an experience and you have a conviction

that I experienced this I'm looking at a code or I experience this particular thing then you know I could jump in there and start question like well what is existence that's what aboutism how about that how you know you can

you know at one point you have to drop anchor and the anchor is I have seen dot code I have experienced this I got to anchor myself in those like, well, it happened to me. And I saw it and I perceived it. And if it happened to me, I can't care less about 8 billion people saying otherwise. Because everything that was ever invented or discovered, at one point, the person who discovered it or invented it had to have a spine and the shoulder strong enough to carry the weight of nobody else on this planet in this moment believes in what you're saying or what you invent.

right it falls on you because you invented it or you saw what you saw right and so the truth is not by consensus right and it's my truth I saw it that that to me is unquestionable because because we can play the water by the same but are you really here and is this world really exist we can play this all day long at one point you have to put down the bricks of like okay well I am going through this life I am experiencing this life I feel like I am here there are processes and logical processes and feelings and ideas that hovering inside my head. And I, regardless of I myself could pull this apart, like my perception and what is really happening and are we really here?

Is this just a hologram? We can play that all day long. The truth is not in consensus. It's very powerful. Yeah. But at one point, I got a drop on anchor in something. I have to have a solid point. Right now my solid point is like this, I know.

Nobody in this room and nobody outside this room has a fucking idea of what's going on. Not one. There's not a person on this planet that knows what the hell is going on, not one. Nobody knows. Everybody's guessing. Everybody just have ideas. There's no absolute. Nobody knows.

I know that. And that itself is absolute. Then I at least know that nobody knows. Right. There things are unknown and their things are unknownable. And then you can logically come to some conclusion that certain things are unknownable. Right. But I think the human mind can't really deal with infinity and those ideas.

Like we already know that we can't. But at one point, you still have to drop on anchor. So if you have this experience, if you saw that, if that's your conviction, you got to put down a brick and say, I'm defending this brick. This is my experience. and there's nobody alive on this planet that can not just question it but attack that in any shape and way this is my experience your universe is your universe it's my experience and i'm sticking to this because i have experienced this so i'm going to put an anchor in this and if you don't do that there's then there's nothing there's no starting point there's nothing that you can possibly build there has to be something

But the small thing to add to that is that in order for that to hold water, you first have to acquire the ability to have a certain level of discernment, which is important. You did a certain amount of work on yourself that you trust your own experience in a way that not for everybody, it's that solidified. I have that to some degree. You have that to a larger degree, but it's also because you have more of, I guess what you would call external accolades to rest on to say, I tried things my way, they worked out. So now whenever I walk in a room and somebody starts yapping business advice of me, I'll let them yap,

but I'm like, you do you, I did it my way, look around you, that's what I've achieved, what did you achieve? So that gives you a certain amount of confidence in your convictions. And I have some of that in other domains. Some people I realized don't always have that because they are never really dropping

an anchor ever or for whatever other reason and they never really land on something that pans out so from that perspective it's very difficult to trust yourself and to trust your convictions and i i do i do appreciate that because somebody it was pointed out to me in one of my daily lives it was pointed out to me and i and i never thought about that and it has to do with a certain ability to uh track what is going on to a degree and if it pans out enough times well it's almost like checkmarks it's like okay yeah yeah so but but but the second you achieve that, and this is the thing, that it's funny when people think that I've kind of like went with the first idea I had and just kind of ran with it, couldn't be literally

the opposite of that. I've experienced a space thousands of times and so much that I'm like, okay, I think I have a say in what I think each thing in there is because I simply visited it so often. So I have some discernment that I trust. Would it be just that thing and also nothing else? even just the console, let's say. Would I be speaking about this with that amount of conviction now? Right. I don't know. I think that it's because something came out of it that I can show other people,

or at least to a substantial number of people, that basically gave me that checkmark of like, something is there, and it doesn't matter what you say, until you don't address the exact direct thing that I'm seeing, you can say whatever you want. I don't, have you considered this? I don't need to consider it.

I have the direct experience of it. Yeah, that would be the difference there. I mean, we're talking about the patterns within the agreed upon reality, right? You repeat certain patterns and, you know, we can play this game of like, okay, I do this or you do this or that, and then keep repeating and you recognize a pattern, that this is possible. So you can always establish like, okay, so this is the truth in this agreed upon reality, because in this agreed upon reality, I repeated a pattern, and we can all verify that happen.

Let's say in business or it doesn't matter if I'm going to snowboard, play guitar, or do business or paint or sculpt, there's a pattern in there, in all those activities that are the same. Essentially, there's a pattern. So it doesn't matter what I'm going to put my mind to. I will excel in that because I understand the pattern that underlies. And then once you do that enough times, then you can say, okay, in the agreed upon reality,

I demonstrated that I can repeat this pattern in one of your shape, and way and it will succeed but in the not agreed upon reality i reserve the right to be absolutely insane i could be a schizophrenic person will be convinced that somebody is sitting over there right it doesn't mean that we just call this person schizophrenic right it doesn't mean he's wrong it just we don't see what this person sees it does it's and that's what i mean like the treat is not by consensus right so because we have much less people who see ghosts and spirits and and people that we perceive that they're not there we consider them insane that's not necessary the case right it's just because we are a major thing we're gonna say oh yeah he's

insane he's seeing things it doesn't mean he's wrong we just don't see what this person sees so you know so it's reserved the right to be insane yes but this is why i'm saying that to me to me to me, the bottom question, at least at the moment, is what is the relationship between the mind and matter? Because matter seems to have this universal, to us, universal democratic thing where it doesn't matter how crazy you are, you try to walk through the wall, you ain't doing it. That is an important point. What is that? Why is that that way?

you know so so ultimately to me the encouragement again is to just broaden the spectrum of entertainment of how many things we entertain and we want to include in the ontology that we're building on without getting lost it's it's a fine line i'm trying to push the ontology just slightly out saying hey the thing that we want to consider seriously is a little bit right outside of what we currently do can we just push it out i think it will solve a lot of problems that's really that's really all i'm saying what i want to talk about um We talked about it last night. What do you think happened when you got,

you said you got kicked out of the DMT space? Right. Was that the same experience when you experienced this oneness, this one conscious loneliness? No, it's, that was different. Is that a Eurogun, by the way, before you? Uh, no, I have some though. You want some?

Sure, I'll have some. Yeah, I'll go grab some. Yeah, I feel like I don't want more coffee. I feel like it's gonna fly me to the moon. Have you tried Eurogun before? Yeah. Is it good? Yeah.

This is whatever? It's a gum that supposedly does something and I don't know. I'm chewing gum. It's like, no, no, I'll. So here's a thing. I'm already talking. Here's a thing. I'm already doing 200 miles an hour.

So when I go 201 miles an hour because of the neurogum, it will not make a difference. Okay. So it would only matter if I was, you know, a mentally, a turtle. And, you know, so I don't know. it's a percentage gear so yeah so that the getting kicked out experience if you if you google this happens to a lot of people actually right and so which also underlines that again there is something that happened this this physically happened to me so so i can verify it in my physical concrete existence we are agreed upon existence this is or agreed upon existence this is or agreed upon existence

In a second I go into that space, we're no longer in the agreed upon reality because we can't verify. Those rules sets that then it talks about like, I can't walk through the wall, right? It's now applying to all of us, right? So we haven't agreed upon reality and agreement is that I can't walk through that wall. Now in a second I'm in that space, right? The rule set is not yet established. There is a rule set, but we just don't know that rule set yet. So we have a hard time to agree upon the reality of that.

space. It has a reality. It has a rule set. And there are sometimes something happens that I can verify that like getting kicked out. Right. So that happened to me that I got kicked out. I can tell you the little story why and how that happened. But the physical proof of that is number one, research it, getting kicked out of DMT. And you're going to see, Steve, see if you can go. Hundreds of people will talk about like they got kicked out for various reasons and for various period of time. And what happens once I got kicked out, I couldn't get back in.

My friend got forcibly kicked out of hyperspace. I'm pretty sure that you're going to find hundreds and hundreds of these recans. Yeah, and read it probably a bunch. I would search to be like a band from DMT space or something. So what's the importance?

But the importance of it that you're going to find that some, you know, hundreds of people will verify the same experience that this happened to them, right? And when it happens to you, you can compare it to the agreed upon reality. And they're not agreed upon reality. Right, there you go. The DMT itself was banned. Right.

That's fine. It was banned from outer space. That's hilarious. All right. So what's the implication? What's the importance of it? So when you get kicked out of the space and hundreds of people will verify that this, happened to them, then we can be discussing that event in or agreed upon really right here.

And the agreement is that they got kicked out trying to get back and they cannot. They can smoke as much, they empty as they want and they cannot get back in, almost like some kind of receptor that is open to, you know, access that space is not shot. A door is shut and no matter how many times you hit that cartridge, you cannot get back in. And so if you're going to read that, you're going to probably find that hundreds and hundreds of people talking about this. So whatever happens in a DMT space where we don't have an agreement of the rules yet. Try Chrome. Right here.

We do have an agreement of the rules, right? And the agreement is that you got kicked out, you hit that cartridge, can't get back in. And every single person will recount the same thing. So something happened that we can all verify. that alone is very interesting because it affects that a grid upon reality that we can talk about

with its rules of can't walk to the wall can't do this can't do that can't fly can't get back into DMT that's now part of can't get back into the empty space is now part of because it happens right here right so

if that's verifiable and then I say okay before you got kicked out what did you do what happened and then you're going to find similar stories See what I mean? So in some way, this is what I'm talking about.

Like, there are going to be a critical mass when we have enough data and enough anecdotes at first because that's all we got. Yeah. Right? Anecdotes at first that are parallel. And eventually, when there is enough of that, then the scientific community has to, you know, mobilize and go like, well, this is too weird. This is too much, too many to ignore that these stories are the same. So whatever reason, whatever reason they're the same stories. And so for the story why I got kicked out,

I popped into a space where there was an entity. Generally, my personal experiences are usually, I don't know, you want to read. Listen, even if you don't find hundreds of accounts, this is actually a perfect moment. Oh, you will, but yeah. But we can make a prediction because I can tell you from my daily lives, I do have quite a few, like dozens of people that told me that they had a similar experience. So I bet you that after this episode is released at this point, you'll see a bunch of comments.

You'll see people like, oh, that happened to me. It really happens very often to people. Right. So to tell you what happened, you know, I ventured in this space hundreds and hundreds of times, right? And my personal experience actually is everybody is different. I don't have many interactions with entities. I have a different cerebral experience when I'm in there. But I do have and I did have encounters, non-verbal communications.

Some of them are, I could call a miracle because it had physical effects that affected me later in this, agreed upon reality. But just to go to this example, I popped into a space where there was an entity. And this entity was startled by me popping into its space, right? And so in a second that happens, usually what happens with these entities, you have this non-verbal bridge. Sort of like I can read your thought, you can read minds.

We are connected immediately. And so I popped in and I know I startled this creature because it got annoyed with me. So the description that I can give is that the feeling of annoyance. Like what are you doing here? What, you know? And in a second that happened,

because I knew that this creature was annoyed, the creature also realized that I know. And it was felt like it corrected itself. Oh, okay, so we have a bridge. So I hear your thoughts, so you have to behave. There was that kind of exchange, right? Now, so the first was a startling, you know, and the second was like, oh, okay, so we are connected.

I can hear your thoughts, sort of, you can hear mine. So there's a bridge. And this creature was, again, it's nonverbal, so you just know this. This was a question. If I paraphrase of that, okay. okay well you hear what you want to know and i had this very quick process and it's interesting in that space your your mind is like a million times fast sorry to interrupt what did it look like um you would you would equate this to almost like the drawings that we see there's this creature was tall

and uh tall a long long face so it's a wearing wearing some kind of a rope. Now when you jump in this place, the reason I'm saying that I'm hesitant of explaining because I thought of this that that might be the process of my human interpretation of something. Right. Right. So when I say like how something looks like, there is a possibility that there's an entity and I am, it's my mind that draws the creature if that makes any sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Right. Because, you know, we have a, we are bound by a visual data set that we have really difficult

time to, you know, what you never seen before can't imagine, it's almost like you can, you know, see. So, so when I described this, this was a tall creature, looked like had some kind of rope, I was in a white space, similar arches as the Colossein would have. Okay. very white, foggy place. And again, when we talk about visuals, I am keenly aware that there's a possibility

that it's my own mind is creating the visual, interprets something the way I can interpret. What is absolutely obvious, though, that you encounter this energy and there is an exchange. Right. So the exchanges that I am aware that, oh, there is a being. here and we have an interaction.

Dot is what, you know, Danny was saying, that's my brick, that's my anchor. That I know that this is happening. This is, this is unquestionable. The visual is questionable because who knows how dot happens. But for me, the appearance was like a tall creature. You know, I know I'm hesitant saying the grayish skin because it's, you know, we have an idea of ETs, how they look like. Like the typical gray alien you see.

Yeah, but it was kind of like the, but tall, very tall. and a longer sort of head, like a, this was a long kind of head. With a robe. They shave with some kind of a room. Kind of, yeah, that's what I mean like. So that's something like I accept that there's a possibility that that's my mind's, you know, translation of the energy or whatever this being is, like the representation. But I saw it as done.

And the question was, okay, so what you want to know? Why are you here? What you want to know? And in my mind, I played that the game immediately. And it was really quick that I played out like, well, I can ask all these questions and the answer actually doesn't matter. That was the strangest thing. Like I came to a conclusion, like, ask what? And what difference it makes if I know or I don't know, it doesn't matter.

Right? So I kind of like processed this super quick. And I didn't have a question. I was like, I don't have a question. I was like, I'm just passing through. right but when I said passing through it wasn't like an unconscious response like I know that I processed this that I knew that I lightning fast went through the possibilities what it is I want to know and I just came to this conclusion like well it doesn't really matter things are just

are and it is what it is and I was like I'm just passing through I don't really have a question and this thing got annoyed with me to the point like boom I was out I just that experience stopped completely. The vision stops. I was out. I was sitting in my little meditation chair that I sit. And after that, for months, I could not get back in all, no matter what I would do. So I was just kicked out. And then later on, four months-ish period, I went in with this, you know, it went through my meditation cycle. And in that cycle, I was literally focusing, like, need to get back. I need to find out why is this am I banned permanently like I had all these questions right so now I had questions out of the sudden and I wanted to solve this like how do I get

back in right so I was super focused on on that task of getting back in and find out if I can and how and somehow that unlocked something because of my intention like there was a very sharp intent that I I went in with. And there's, again, the communication comes like, okay, you can't come here anymore without a purpose. You can't, you know, as a tourist, you can't just pass through. And it's interesting that what was the answer because this creature got annoyed with me because I didn't have a purpose.

I was kind of like, well, I'm just passing through. I don't have a question. And that was immediately I was asked. So that was the reason. And so the answer was, it wasn't coming. from the same being, like you get in and there are this non-verbal, this voice, but again, it's non-verbal. It's just annoying. Oh, I got it. And that was basically the idea of, or the message, that you cannot come in here anymore as a tourist. You've been here hundreds of hundreds of times.

This is, you know, if you come, it has to have a purpose. There has to be a function. You can't just come. I wonder, why did it stand out to you, that particular, instance the being locked out i don't know i just think it's interesting because it's similar to you know well it's interesting that you say a lot of people experience the same thing because it's because it is that this has a feature that we can verify in or agreed upon reality you can verify it because if you line up a few people who had this experience right now right here without any substance and they're going to say the same thing to you like hey this happened to me or something similar happened to me

And so again, this space where we are talking right now is or agreed upon reality with its rules and its rigidity, right? That we all verify. This table is here. The microphone is here. We're doing a podcast right now. You can't walk to the wall. I mean, Danny definitely can't walk to the wall. He claimed it many times.

So, you know, so that's are agreed upon reality. And with this agreed upon reality, you can have people who will verify something that happened to them. And this event will be very, very similar. Right. So that something you can latch on to like, okay, this is tangible because it's happened to many people and they all talk about it and the experience is very similar. Yes. And whatever happens within the space, we can't verify it because you would have to be there. It's kind of like if you dreamt something, I can't verify what you know, what you dream. And is there a possibility that we both go dreaming and we're going to share something of a dream?

There are some legends about the Aborigines. Aborigines in Australia that do this supposedly. They go to sleep together and they interact with each other in their dreams. Could be a legend, could be, who knows. But there is something like that. And could you verify that? There's also near-death experiences where people, like there's been studies where people have been in car accidents together and like saw each other in their near-death experience.

Right. Yeah. So there you go. Now, if somebody says this, you're going to say, well, you hit your head. 100 people says this, then you go, okay, I need to look at this. So this is something that you're touching on, I think, is very important. John Chavez from DMT Quest who got involved with the film, not like he invested in it, but also he asked us if we would be okay

with venturing into some territories like near-death experience or things like this, potentially, if we can be presented with a certain amount of data. so what john is really good at is very aware of all the different kinds of research that exists out there and he made me aware of this i didn't know this that apparently what you would call these fringe investigative uh you know sections of science near death experience uh some people manifesting objects like things that you would think like oh this is some you know like twilight zone crazy shit apparently there's like real data about these things yeah and it for the most part is kind of being ignored i have a friend who

that I know really well and he had a open heart surgery and he was very well kind of like us like he's very open minded straightforward not you know like necessarily married to believe anything in particular

but pretty I would say secular in this predispensation he came back completely changed and he said Danny I was above my body the whole shebang

I went to visit my mother in Ireland I saw her. I know it wasn't a vision. I know I saw her like in real time. He's like, I will never be the same. It's like, because there's a level of realness to it, I guess. I've never had that. I've never had an out-of-body experience.

But I understand that sentiment of like the realness of it that is so salient to the person. I saw a video on YouTube a couple months ago where this guy was explaining how when he was young he had a near death experience like he was in a car accident right and he said he saw some sort of entity or he communicated with some sort of i'm a little bit vague on on what exactly he said he saw the first time when he was young but then later he said he went to a mountain with one of his buddies and they did mushrooms and he said he saw the same entity and and he said maybe he said maybe it was dm t it was either dmter or mushrooms and he said that the entity said what the fuck are you doing here get out and don't ever come back.

I think I've heard this. He said it was the same thing. This guy? Interesting. Yes. Yeah, this is the guy. It's a 12-minute video. We're not going to watch the whole thing. The reason I bring that up is because I had this guy on here who did this. He basically won this.

It was a part of the grant that this dude, John Bigelow. Related to Ben Ben Bigelow. I smoked DMT while a friend of Okay, so it was the empty. Well, I found observed along a lake. I went from total fear, out my head, blast off to total calm and empty quiet space. Same entity. Okay.

So. Did you have that? Did you have the NDE? Did you have any of the next place? Never had NDE, but I definitely met the same beings. So I had this guy in here who says there's this guy named John Bigelow who's been like a part of the whole, he's an aerospace billionaire. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, and he's really into this stuff. Robert Bigelow. What did they, what did they call him? You said John. John Bigelow. Robert. Yeah. He's building the space.

He started with a space hotel. I remember this back in the, you know, ex-price times. Like he was building this space hotel. He was. Yeah. He's very into the whole alien disclosure movement and all this stuff. And he's got a lot of money. And he basically, he put up basically a bounty, like a bunch of money for people who could

come up with a theory on near-death experiences and what they were or whatever. And this guy won the prize for it because he was, what was the gentleman's name who he had in here again? Jeffrey Mishloff. No, no, no, not Jeffrey Mishlov. It was the guy before that. The guy who was talking about the near-death experiences of people together. Oh, that was Jeffrey Long? Yeah, Jeffrey Long.

Yeah, yeah. So he won a bunch of money for his stuff. on these near-death experiences and he put like I think he's had thousands of people together and and he's been studying this for his whole life and I asked him about this guy who had the DMT experience and told him don't come back and he thinks there's absolutely zero connection between between both spaces right oh it's spiritual and DMT space but between the near-death experience realm and I'm open to it I'm on record saying this is a conversation me and Zulton head back in fourth I had vote of those you had right right right I had actual ND when I hit the truck, which I never saw my body. I never looked at myself. But I could move in space and look behind the house. Like I was not bound by, I wanted to look behind a bush and I just did. And that was not possible.

Bush was far away. Or looked behind the house. So it was, I never looked at my body because I was a kid. I didn't know what the hell was going on. But on MEO5, you can have, like people call it ego. that and I sort of have a theory what actually happens there is that um and it's it's it's it's it's comes from the frog and I'm gonna say like if you have a reptilian mind right I just call the reptilian mind that the basic function your dos you know operating system how many

times you blink and all that stuff right and the feedback system from your body right so there's your mind that is is not the brain the mind that is not material So your thoughts and all those processes. And there's a connection between that, because those processes tell you like, well, I gotta run, but how do you know? Like, well, your subconscious, or call it reptilian, I call it that the basic operation system

told you that you're in danger, so you gotta run. So these two works together. And my theory is that the MEO5 is basically the frog venom, Severe's this connection. So your mind gets zero feedback from the body or any kind. Zero. There's no feedback from the body.

And so it will perceive as you died. Because all the sensory data that would otherwise come in just simply not there. And so that's why possibly you experience this state of like, oh, I just died. Like I had that experience. Like I went through that like, holy shit, it just died. Well, you're not connected to anything. back. Well, you're conscious, right? But I had this absolute certainty that I just died. Like, it's an absolute certainty. Like, and that's the recaller. Same thing. If you research it, people talk about

the ego that or people try to figure out what happens. Some people have it on N&D, some people have it on an M.O5. And the experience that they talk about is not. Like, I died. And they have this absolute certainty that they did and i had the absolute certainty like holy cow it just game over this just ended today you know so you're a perfect person to ask i do want to ask you about this difference that the guy was describing because my impression also that the dm t and n at least feels very different than what i'm experiencing what i'm deep states of meditation i've never had near death but from the descriptions and again this is why you're a perfect person to ask you don't feel that there's a difference in the essence of it like the digital nature of like how the DMT space feels doesn't it feel different

to you than what you experienced when you were 12 years old when you hit the truck uh maybe not okay so so and then DMT to me that there's there's a in that space there's a very conscious process that i can direct like i'm going in and i know that i'm going here i'm going to there, like there's a complex process is going on. Like we, you know, I kind of always talk about, like, look, any psychedelics that exist is you observing something in a theater, right? And you just take a different seat. It's a different angle.

So every single opiates to THC to everything that has somehow alters your perception, altered your perception, but you look into the same theater act. Whatever is going on, you just look at it from a different point. with different focus. What's important to you now change so you see something else. It's what it means is when we talk about

like you have this filter system. Right? So every single one of those substances change the filters. What is important, what isn't important. So you look at it a different way. DMT is the backstage pass.

Like what's a good analogy? It's such a good analogy. What's going on in a theater no longer matters. Now you see how these things are moved and oh yeah, this guy fly in. there's a rope that he was, you know.

So you see how the thing works, right? And then 5MU is you're not in the theater. You look at the whole thing, the whole existence, the whole thing from the outside. Like if NN was the backstage press and see how things move and they're very mechanical in some way, digitally you could even say, that things are built and there are different level of management.

There is a tour manager. There's a, you know what I mean? Like everybody has a function. There are various entities with different functions and levels of consciousness and power. And then out of a sudden, 5MU is the elevator to the boss. Like, we're going to the boss. We're going all the way. This is the guy.

This is the one consciousness. Upper management. This is the ownership here. This is the boss. I love how you said it might be the satellite. You're looking at everything from a satellite. Right. And so you go to the boss.

that's it's everything that is there is here right so that's kind of how I would differentiate this right and so on NN yeah right the experience is very conscious and I know that I have complex processes and I think about things and and move things and I purposely in you know induce certain things and I have you know and I have encounters with creatures now everybody's experience is different I There was a time when I asked for help and I got help from creatures. These were also grayish-blueish creatures really tall. This was the only time I can...

Wait, that's the thing with your chest? Yeah. Oh, that's a wild one. I can walk around the dente. I could operate, you know, I could operate, you know, vehicles that should operate. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's completely conscious. This was the only...

Don't do it, kids. But, you know, it takes experience. and hundreds of hundreds of times to being there. But this was the only time when I was pushed back. Like a lot of people, you know, smoke the empty and they laid back and experienced it that way. I sit in a meditation position. This was the only time I got pushed back.

Like I forcefully, like I felt like just, you know, flat knot. But I went into that space for a reason. Like I had this anger and I couldn't explain. And then, you know, I'm meditating since I was. a little kid. So it's not normal. My general being is not, things just are.

Whatever, right? And it's really an alien experience to me that I had this pertaining just this anger. Like I would wake up almost every day. Like I was just, there was this anger. And it was weird because I had an outside perspective of it. Like I realized like, you know, okay, engine light is on.

Why is it on? I was angry. and but but it was sort of an external experience still like there was an anxiety like I would I would just do this all day like it's just so I knew that okay engine light is on there's something's wrong I'm angry and anxious and I am perceiving that and in a weird way I compartmentalize it it doesn't affect what I'm doing but it's just there that's what I mean like engine light is on side I'm aware that something and it was not going away it just kept happening day after day after day for like three, four, five weeks.

And so, you know, and I meditate. I do my things. And, you know, I'm like, let's clear it. And I would clear as much as possible, but it creeps back. Like, what the hell? And so I had this wild idea. Like, you know what? Let's go into the space and let's find out.

Let's go meet the mechanic. Let's see the doctors, right? And I went into this with, and, you know, this was after I got back. This was after I kicked out. So this is, to me, this is, again, a reason that. I'm coming in the space with consciousness with with purpose. I came into this without purpose. And this was there.

Again, this is what I lay my brick when I say, this happened, right? And I'm going to anchor that, but this happened. I was sitting there and I felt like a forcefully I was pushed back, which is not normal to me. Like I fell back. And there were these giant tall creatures around me. I looked up and they were, if I would gauge 20 foot plus. just huge creatures, right?

Kind of hovering over, they had these long hands. And I literally saw that they grabbed something. There was a, to a lack of it, an ugly potato was right here with a long stinger. Like it's almost like a mosquito's head. It was like some weird thing. Then I saw it. And then they grabbed this thing and they start pulling it. And I could see this stinger coming out of my chest.

chest. It was going through my body and they were pulling this out, right? And then just carried it away. And where it's verifiable to me that I felt it, I felt how I kind of relaxed and I'm like, wow, and the anxiety leaving me. So, so, and I can cut ahead of the story that after this, this whole anxiety and anger just went away. So I'm very fireably, this happened because also the agreed upon reality thing that was happening to be stopped. So I know that there is a physical proof that no longer, anxiety, anger was no longer there. Wow. And so they grab this thing, they took it away and then and this is the difference between 5MU and and that this was 5 this is Anna. Oh this is NN.

Because I can have a completely conscious logical conversation why you don't really have that on 5MU is you right going to the boss and like vision, all that stops. And here I got the packets of data, like, okay, this is a thing that you guys, meaning humans, you call these demons. But it's not a thing with a bad intention. It's not a demon. That's just call it a demon.

And so what this is, it's like, you know, when sharks are swimming, they have the low fish goes around them, and then they grab whatever left over. Yeah. And so that's what it is. you have a certain frequency, you put out a certain energy, and there are entities that will be attracted to that. So technically it's a parasite, right? It's a parasite that something pissed you off, let's say,

and then you are on that frequency. You're angry and you're on that frequency. And there are going to be parasites or creatures that are attracted to that. You're leaking that now. And then it will be around, and they feed on that as long as you're angry. once your anger is gone they have no more food they will be gone but if you're angry today and tomorrow and after tomorrow and it keeps happening something bothers you and you keep yourself in this state these entities these parasites start to become familiar with you and they don't have much

this was all told me told me they don't have much a lot of complex processes but enough for them to know that okay this is my food source now and I'm here for a while and I'm start to be familiar with this creature that giving me this food and so all we have to do is getting him in a position where he's pissed and then he will leak this food and so bad stuff starts happening to you because they don't it's not complex creatures but they can to some degree affect what happens in reality right so because they can affect your mental processes because now your little demons are attached to you, right? And you live your life and your mental process is not completely unaffected. So that's basically what they said. These creatures are affecting your mental processes enough to steer you

just a little bit into the direction that you will be angry or dissatisfied. So therefore, you will generate that frequency, that energy that they're feed on. So these creatures were basically telling me like okay we remove this thing but be careful do not you know chill don't don't get back to this particular frequency be very conscious of it because they will be back wow so that was a you know and they removed this thing and then after that but like it was just gone like a month worth of anger and and and unaccounted anger i don't know what i was angry about or this anxiety i don't know i'm like i have no problems i don't i don't know what it is coming from yeah so that's why this was strange and so i used and then the empty for this process and

this is what happened and you know and i don't care eight billion people can you know argue about this i don't give a crap this happened right i experienced this i don't care what you got to say about this this happened to me right and it's verifiable and i can verify it in the agreed-upon reality right here i'm not anxious, not angry, and I was for about a month, unexplainably. Right. So, so those are those experiences when we got to drop the anchor like, hey, it happened. Nobody can take this away from this. This, this happened. And so, um, so like this was just an example of entities and how, you know, that process works. In NNDNT, for me, it's rare that I come across entities. To me, it's a more.

more of a, it's a very cerebral. And there are places I go to. Like there is this place I would go to where I call it the ecstasy of existence. Like it's almost like a giant structure and I'm aware that there are a lot of beings are in there, non-formal. Like these are not like the entity that kicked me out, I had a full vision of like a figure. right these are almost like non-figurative or non like what would be the word for it they don't have a form they're formless just i just thought i just feel the energy and there are

thousands of them in there just a whirling and they're like in this state of ecstasy of almost like they realize that we exist and how amazing that is and so generally that's my process i go to the an in space with an intention first i body check the first hit is always am i clear to go meaning you know it's like Houston all systems are good are we angry are we distracted are we cool am i sharp am i focused this has to be the first so i'm not distracted if i'm distracted with something then i stay in this space i will not take a second hit okay i will stay there and then and then I simply can find this place and I go there and I just I just exist and there is this ecstasy sort of feeling. So I would, and I know this place.

I go, if I'm, if my system check is not coming back clear, there's an engine light on, washer liquid missing, whatever it is. Right. Then I'm staying here and I'm going to go to this place and I just have this renewed, happy sort of place and I just stay there. If everything is cool, then we go further. And then those processes are very cerebral. It's rare for me that I see entities and countries. It's all these mental abstract processes. Now, 5MEO, none of this happens.

This is elevator straight up. There is nothing in between. It just goes to dissolution and entering this space where everything is just this one thing. Yeah. Dude, I mean, it's really cool to listen to you describe this stuff. Like, it seems like you're using it as a tool to enhance every part of your life. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, you're a great example of that just by the fact that all the things that you do and the success that you've had. It's just it's so interesting to me. Like, and you said, I think you said earlier that there's the, I've described this to you too. Like, there's this lingering effect afterwards. After you do it maybe a few times and like when you get back into the real world where maybe you're a little bit more tapped into something else and maybe your antenna is a little stronger each time you do it that kind of helps you with solving problems. Do you experience that?

Yes. The form of that is so once you, this is a very similar space to where meditation takes you. I just feel like this is a fast-tracking those things, right? But it's very similar. And you realize that all this is about reinforcing and optimizing your being, not just your physical being, but your mental process and the witness. The witness is that thing I told you about where I can, especially 5MEO, actually, That's one space when it's very obvious.

Like you have your body, your mind, which is all the lexical data that you collected, what you were taught, all those things, all your experiences on this planet, how to operate, everything that you know about things is your mind. But there's an other layer, the witness, that sort of drives it all. So I would, you know, people can call it a soul, the spirit, or whatever you want to call it, but there is this other thing that is just there, right? And then you can be very aware this differentiation. Like my very first five years and years ago was I definitely had this experience of like, okay, my body and then my mind was freaking out.

Freaking out. Like, oh, we're not going there. Like, they knew that that road is ending for them. Like the body, like, I'm dying. The mind is like, whoa. am I dissolving what's going to happen here? Like what happens to me? That was that, you know, freak out.

And then, but then I noticed, but I am also witnessing all this. And the witness was felt undestructible. And later in for, you know, many, many other 5MU experiences, I got to get a hold of that. Like, okay, I got it. I can't really die. That this, this, the witness is, is permanent. Right.

And so, so that witness, that spirit, whatever you call it, that attention that is inherently you. It's just no matter what happens, this exists. And then the more you go there, the more obvious that this exists. So what you're going to get out of it? One is that you stop being afraid of dying. Because it's not just you think, I don't have to believe that I can die. I know I can't.

Because I was there. Well, the body can, but you know, but that thing can't. Right. And so you... That soul, you think that soul just gets put into an container. Yes. And then you just, you know. And then you, when you experience it's obvious.

Like you kind of laugh about or chuckle about, which I had. Like, huh, that's funny. Like, I'm just laughing at a lot while I'm in the space. Because it's funny. Like how we didn't know that. So how we, you know. So there is that that you reinforce that understanding. And when you stop being afraid of things, that's obviously helping.

So that's five. M.U. And on an end, you have these processes, right? And in these processes, you can optimize yourself. Like there is, it's a very obvious like, oh, how everything happens. Even human emotions and how they are structured, right? Like you have this moment of realizing that I exist, that flash of like, I am. I'm here. The very next feeling will be fear of losing that. awareness of being and then you understand that every single thing that exists in human emotions is rooted in one of these existence and the fear of not existing yeah and so negative from jealousy to fear everything that's negative in this yin yang is connected to the fear of losing something

but ultimately your existence ultimately your yes your consciousness and And everything that's positive is I exist and need to enjoy that, love, care, all those belongs to that. And then the whole play is the interaction between these two. If I can tell you that existence, the one that the fear shadows cannot be taken away from you, then now you can start knocking at these negatives. because if I don't have to be afraid of dying or non-existing and all these negatives that are rooted in the shadow of existence can be start, you know, just throw them out, not unnecessary.

And then beyond that, also there are processes that how repeatable miracles, right? That's what I meant by, it doesn't matter if I wanted to be a snowboard champion or a guitar player, that the principles are the same. Right? And so you start to see the patterns of like, ah, that's how this works. So yeah, there's definitely a weaponization for a lot. You know what I mean? Of this, oh, okay, right? I can do this and and I can, you know, perform, you know, miracles, so to speak. And then in that agreed upon reality space, you have to keep track of the miracles. Because keep track of the miracles. because keep track of the miracles means something that you wanted happens

somebody you thought of show up something you know it happens to everyone synchronity cities and weird stuff right and what happens because we don't have a physical explanation we don't have a rule set how that happened or we just simply don't understand how they happen what happens anything you know your mind can't hold two ideas that contradict each other

it's not possible for you to be believe and not believe in the same time. This is why also... I don't know if I would agree with it. Because here's what I'm going to say. If you're on a fence, you don't believe. That's why. So my philosophical answer to that is that either you are in,

if you have doubt, you're not in. So either, you know what I mean? It's actually a Buddhist monk told me this. He walked up to me on the street. This freaking happened. A Buddhist monk walks up to me on a street. I just got initiated, by these monks a month before.

It was a weird time in my life. Monks in New York City, I lived in New York City at the time. You know, the yellow rope traditional, just walk up to me like, oh, hey, you look good. Like they just knew. This was the strangest thing. Anyway, so monk was up to me and he goes, do you believe? I'm like, well, I knew what he was asking. And I like, you know, sometimes, yes, sometimes.

And he was like, well, you know, it's a, yeah. Yes and everything as around that is a no. Sitting in a fence is a no. Right. It's either yes and everything else. You're absolute or everything else is a, you know. So anyway, so that's my opinion on it. Yeah, sure, sure.

In an instance, it might be right. Yeah, I just feel like you can, you know, you can move between pretty rapidly. That can definitely happen. That's, yes. But yeah, because new information will change what, you know. So yes, I 100% agree with new information changes is what you think instantly if you're not a rigid, you know,

a petrified person that is holding onto dogmatic crap, right? Yeah. But, you know, but beyond that, what I meant by holding onto your miracles is that when that happens, like I had a close encounter, right? Which if I told you, everybody would know this guy is crazy, right? But it happened with witnesses. So it's crazy. Your mind will try to find an explanation.

and if it can't, it will try to erase this because it's contradict your agreed upon reality. So what happens to all your miracles when you start thinking about them like five years from now, something crazy happened to you, you start to question yourself, did that really happen? Did I make it up?

Did I over? Did I color this story? Maybe I embellished it a little bit, right? You start questioning your miracles. And I think it's important that you write them down and hold on to them. All the things, all the weird stuff and man yeah you know because what that teaches you want more and more

happens you more and more and more open to accept them and more and more open to accept them more and more happens mm-hmm right because you're open to that possibility you're noticing that that channel yeah yes yeah yeah so so what I get out of I mean I started with psychotelics in the mid-90s right so obviously went down to the psilocybin and the LSD and and and and all that, experimenting. And, you know, I never touched anything until I had a friend who was a professor and I highly respected him and he started to talk to me about it. And I'm like, hmm, if this person that I highly respected, a massive intellectual giant is talking about this, I need to understand what's happening here. That's kind of what happened with psyched legs.

And then, so from the get-go, I never went into the space with like, hey, let's just get fucked up. You know, that was never, I don't do that. It was always intentional and it always, I always took it. I'm an explorer and I'm going to sail west and let's see if we find a continent. You know what I mean? Like that was always my thing. So that was always my relation with this. And because of that, I came into this with a scientific mind and the explorer's mind.

And so that means you observe, you stay pragmatic, take notes. find patterns. That's how I approached it. And so that's what I've been doing for decades after decades. And so my relation is dot to the space. And so because my relationship was dot instead of like,

woohoo party, eventually I could create these structures like, okay, I see processes. Okay, this works. Oh, I can use this. And what I mean? And what that happens, what it does,

it's, it's modifies, 100% modified. who I am. In fact, I don't think I'm the same person. I, you know, like, I would go as far, like, if you can modify yourself genetically, turn on certain genes and turn off certain genes, I'm pretty sure that I have. Right. Right. And, you know, and then I, of course, and I went down to the transcendental meditation and all that stuff as well. Parallel to this, that, you know, you go into that space and with a flashlight. Let's, let's see who I am. Everything, all the corners, leaves nothing on turn.

Because I have to look at everything that ever happened to me, everything that ever taught to me and told me was embedded when I was a kid. Is the data real? Did I understand it correctly, first and foremost? And was that real? Is that real? Is it verifiable? You were taught, like, don't cross your eyes because it stays that way.

Is that true? Right. So, I mean, the dumbest low things, everything that was taught to me had to go through that process and discover that is it real or should I discard? That's the point of that. So I transcend into a different person. Everything that, you know,

and there's a little bit of a in between transcendental meditation and the recapitulation of the Carlos Castadena, sort of the men of knowledge of the Mesoamerican tribes, how they were handling that. There is a process, like how to clean house. So this is the big cleaning house. And so I went through that. And so the combination of exploring new territories

through psychologists, and going through traditional, well, traditional, in quote, actually, processes of meditation and the cleaning has the recapitulation process. So of let's change who I am. Let's optimize. Let's build, you know, Warhammer 40K, right?

Like, let's rebuild, let's build a machine. Let's build a war machine that is conscious and can, do these things and how I can make I get to give you examples like how um just one of them right so how crazy this this process is since I was a kid um once I start playing guitar every time I tune my guitar I kind of lean away from the guitar I had this fear of the guitar strings break and hit me in the face I had this fear and so I always like you know stayed away from it I did that my whole life until I find my I'm doing it so when I was a kid

somewhere around six, seven years old we used to have a commercial on TV when a little girl was playing a violin right? And then playing something and out of a sudden like you can the string breaks and then the violin goes

just because she broke a string and it was a life insurance commercial right. The metaphor was that anything can happen in life and we have this in my language it makes all the sense that the string of life can break and you need life insurance. A six years old not going to understand this concept.

All I saw string breaks and the little girl that's playing the violin now need life insurance. What happened to her? So ever since I was tuning my guitar leaning away from the guitar because that thing was in there, I was not aware of this until I'm doing my recapitulations, my transcendent meditation. And as I said, it's a big flashlight. You're finding all the dumb shit that you ever thought of or did or been taught of. And so I found this.

Like, oh, that's why you're doing that. You don't have to do that. That was a metaphor. Throw it out. So that's an actual example of what kind of stuff you find. That's the craziest stuff is in there. Like imagine you and your personality was formed in the first six, seven years of your life. By who?

people were saying they didn't want to tell you the truth because you were a kid right so parents were teachers were all lying to you about stuff because they didn't want to tell you the truth you know like babies come with a bird and dropped in the chimney whatever the hell they were telling you right wait what are you trying to say yeah right you have a you have a bird on the way so i mean so so there's there's dumb stuff that was taught to you and there are irrational fears that were you know so all that stuff you become a person and the personal of yours was constructed in a time when you were not really conscious of that.

So it's kind of unbeknown to you who you are. And that's a point, let's go back. And I feel like psychedelics are supercharging that. Like I can really look at things like, what's going on here? Who am I? How do I modify this person into the most optimal form? The reason that what you're saying right now

stands out to me is super important is because this is actually something that people can verify for themselves easily. Even in the crazier ways, not in the, because everything you just said can still be folded into kind of like the psychoanalytical frame. But even in the crazier things, people don't necessarily have to go into psychedelics

because, to be fair, there are worse things than not existing, like suffering forever. So, you know, there are worse things, right? But, no, but in I take the fear, but but everything that Zoltan did in his life revolved around a simple attitude which is I'm going to find out for myself and I think that is such an important thing to emphasize

recently I told this to Zolta and yesterday this was told to me by a friend of mine and you read it somewhere so I'm definitely cutting somebody out from the chain of commands that actually ordered the idea but it's a cool experiment the friend Nico like told me about it Basically, you sit down in the house before you do some mundane task, bank, store, whatever it is you're about to do, okay? Sit down, close your eyes for a second.

Invision yourself with everything you're wearing as accurately as possible where you're going to be. If it's at the bank in front of the teller doing whatever you're doing, okay? If it's at the store, maybe the cashier doing the checkout, whatever it is that you're going to be doing. Invision yourself there and then say, please deliver me there safely. Simple. Then when you had that spot, standing in the front of the teller in the bank, you don't have to close your eyes, obviously, look you're tired, but envision yourself on that

couch 10 minutes earlier, sitting there, talk to yourself in the past, say, thank you for delivering me here safely. So what's interesting is that you basically create a portal. You communicate to existence. I understand how this works. I know at the moment, from my limited perspective, I think of it It was like, oh, what do you mean? I just got up and I went to the bank. No, it's an occurrence that happened because you had an aim, you had a vision, you stayed with it. It's a simple one that you do all the time and you can accomplish easily, but you're signifying that you understand how it actually works, which is you have an intention, you have an energy you putting into the intention, and you're staying on it for a particular amount of time until it occurs exactly how you wanted it to happen.

You don't necessarily know how you're moving your hand or moving your body or just kind of accept it to be true. but what actually happened when you wanted to go to the bank is that you had all these ideas about going there and then you're an impulse and you stay with that impulse. The point is that when you start communicating to yourself across time this way, quote unquote, you're starting showing, wait, can I do this with a thing that I don't necessarily expect to happen?

This is where you start playing with it. This is what I mean by anybody can verify this. The practice is that you're supposed to be expanding the amount of miracles or synchronicities that can happen to you and you can test this so then you go

okay next time I'm going to the bank I'm going to imagine I'm going to do the same deliver me there safely but I'm also going to envision something that might not happen like I'm going to see somebody

with a pink hat or something if you show up to the bank and somebody has even close something pink distinctly pink on their head

go oh interesting thank you for delivering me here safely. Also, yes, interesting. And then you start playing with it. Okay, how far can I take this?

I'm going to the bank. I'm going to meet somebody on the way and I'm going to have some kind of a big life change. And you start believing in it because you look at it, well, dude, that was crazy. Why would they have a pink thing on the head? And now you start playing with it. Try this. Try this. Anybody can try this.

Testing the matrix. I had this dude on here, Eric Wargo, who had a book called Time Loops. Have you heard of it? No. fascinating book he wrote about basically the idea of how time is like a loop. And what he started doing was he started recording his dreams down and then shit that it was happening in his dreams was happening in his future. Right. So like and then he also points out all these times in history where people had dreams that actually happened like where people like that were like jotting down their dreams had things happen. For example and even around big events, Titanic, there was

multiple people who had dreams about the Titanic sinking, even somebody who were to book about it right before it happened. There was during, right before, yeah. That's a thing. Pull it up, Steve. Steve's got it. That's crazy. Also, before 9-11, there was hundreds and hundreds of people who woke up and talked about having dreams about towers being taken down by airplanes before 9-11 happened. And like, the idea is that the idea is the future predicts the past as well as the other way as well as the other way around

it's one system that communicates to itself across all time back and forth and just one block yeah right or there is no time oh there is no time and it's just one block you're so like if you know or if your future self is projecting is somehow communicating with your past self saying like oh I'm successful I've done all these things I've achieved all these amazing things.

You somehow have this intuition that like, I need to become this. This intuitive thing you can't really describe that you know is your path and your journey, right? But what it really is is your future self-communicating with you. And he has this whole, I'm fucking this up a little bit. No, no, I'm in full agreement with that. And I think it's just that the more you have these checkmarks of like, yeah, that worked.

Again, in Zoltan's example, it's very pronounced because he knew he's going to be a rock star when he was like 14. Right, right. So, but he knew. It's not like he just postulated. He communicate that across time. Just say, I know that well enough to know that just to step into that frame. Is there a world line for a version of Zoltan that didn't get there?

Yes, it's the one that didn't postulate it strongly enough. Right. So now that sounds like one of these, oh, parallel universes. Test it. Multiverse. Try it. It's not, it costs you nothing to try this, right? And I promise you there's going to be something there that's going to occur.

And again, don't. fall into any, like, silly trap of like, well, you know, I wanted to see some silly hat, but somebody, then I went outside and on the way back home, I saw a pink bubble gum. That doesn't count. Like, be fair with the, you know, with your assessments. Right. But the more you're fair with your assessments and, like, you're a better manifest. Yeah.

It's just that you're better in envisioning things and connecting to them in a way that will actually make it happen. And when you pay more attention to them, they have more. And I gave the, just Google the book, Steve. Google the Titanic book that came out before the Titanic song. Sorry. You want to water or something? Steve,

we grab my of liquid death. Liquid death. Before, so I was explaining this thing that happened to me recently where I, uh, I'll get you the water. Right. I, um, there's this dude who, um, is friends. We got any left? You?

Yes. Nice. Thanks, Steve. Thank you. Awesome. There's this guy who's my, my dad. worked at the post office with forever. And I see the guy, you know, sometimes when I go to my parents' house, he's there.

I see him maybe like three times a year, something like that. Right. He's just like this funny New Yorker guy. I never think about him. I mean, that's mean to say, but I don't really. He's like, he's on the very, he's on the very far periphery of like people in my life, right? Not somebody I think about every day. I happen to be driving home one day and I random thought popped into my head about him.

Like his voice popped into my head saying, I was imagining how he would react to something I knew it was going to happen in the future. Like I knew I was going to see him in the near future and I was just thinking about like what our interaction would be. So random it popped into my head. No reasonable explanation to why that thought popped into my head.

Ten seconds later he calls me. Right. The dudes called me five times in the last 15 years. Those are the miracles I'm saying that you have to keep track over so your mind does not delete them. Yeah. as unexplainable phenomena because your mind is not comfortable.

That's why I kind of said that, you know, doesn't like conflicting information. And in our everyday reality, we're not talking about miracles. We're not talking about these things. It's not a thing that everybody just agrees. So it kind of goes against the grain of general agreed upon reality. But they happen. And so the more you keep track of them, the more you solidify them, no, no, no, that happens. that happen.

Do not erase this data. Do not bleach bit or whatever. Keep this data, all right? The more you have, the more accustomed you are to the miracles. And so the more you can perform. And once you accomplish a bunch of impossible things, in turn, any task is front of you, you're no longer thinking about, which is the enemy. You're no longer going to have doubts. Oh, I'm going to do that.

I have no doubts. That's what Danny was referring to. We had this conversation that when did you know? And I'm like, I was a kid. I knew exactly what I was going to do. There was never a moment in my life and I thought it might not happen. Never, not for a second. And I would say that is the weaponization of your intent.

So intent is a really interesting thing because let's say to give you a pragmatic example. You get up in the morning and say, I'm going to go get some bread. That's my intent. I'm going to go and get bread. You get in your car, you get a phone call from your friend, he gets a flat tire. Well, I'm going to go help him. Then some time passed and are you hungry? Yeah, sure.

Let's go eat. Like you go to eat. So as you see, the path is nice, really convoluted. You're all over a city. As long as you didn't forget for a second that you left your house for bread, right? You're good. Because the path to success is not a straight line. The path to achieving the things you want is not a straight line.

Life will knock your run. But the important part is that vision, the intent has to stay there, unfazed, that light is there forever until you achieve that. And then once you achieve that, checkmark. I got it. You fulfill that cycle. And then you probably have more goals, more things that you want to do. And every single time you fulfill one, you checkmark those and keep track all them. But I did that, I did that.

That was impossible. Yet we hear. all those miracles and then what happens that's just the record keeping for for your own mind so you're not habitually delete these things and you believe in your own miracles but in turn what happens to you is that whatever vision i have whatever i want to do i don't have the automatic question of yeah but that's not possible that's maybe too difficult oh it's going to cost a lot of money oh i don't know the right people i don't have those thoughts zero silence I have a goal, I focus on it, and I'm going to go and get it.

Right. I don't have the doubt process. Yes. And the reason I don't have the doubt process, because since I was a kid, I'm practicing this. Keep track of the miracles. And there's a state of mind and being that amplifies these things. So definitely with DMT and with certain meditative states, I don't know if you know this, but all the participants in the DMTX study in Imperial College, I hope I'm not confess.

I'm pretty sure that Alexander Boehner in his book, The Bigger Picture, is described, he was one of the test subjects. And he is talking about, I think he said all of them, experience an incredible uptake in these synchronities even before they started the actual tests. So, like, I think it was like a month before that they all started experiencing crazy, like crazy synchronities during and a few months after, like tapered off. and when you are in certain like I guess calm states or like after deep meditative states all of a sudden all of these things are much more pronounced you can see them but at the same time you see that you just flow through them you're not even trying to grab them or anything like this there's this thing that people call burning man magic it's a real thing it's like when people go to burning man there's this insane uptick and synchrony cities that happen there that are way outside of

the realm of just chance and I think it's because that everybody kind of in a particular state That it just kind of makes these things happen. But again, this is, anybody can test this. You know, Ricka Jervais famously said, I don't know why, because he started kind of late in his life. And he said, I don't know why, but I just knew it's all going to be all right. Like, I don't never, even when we had no money, like, I was just like, isn't it weird?

It's like something when you, when you have this knowledge, like you're this, this, this deep knowing of what's going to happen, right? How it's going to end up. It, like, it dictates. your actions to get there. Like, Dick takes every movie making your life. Like I have a similar feeling when I was young, which is what I think is the reason that in my life, when I have big goals that I wanted to do or to achieve, I, the analogy I use is I always dove into the swimming pool before it was full of water. And I would just fucking like, I would have to make sure or somehow believe that that water would fill up before I got in the pool where I like, I make. the big leap, right,

knowing that it's possible, it's that I could land and lose, I could miss my mark and lose everything, but I'm like fucking hoping to God that I'm gonna land on solid ground. You know, and I always find a way to land on solid ground, and I don't like, like,

I always take the risk. You burn the boats. Yeah. You burned the boats. Right, right, yes. Yeah, burn all the boards. But there are the patterns again. Look at the patterns.

Yeah. The pattern is like, let's say we talk about, Creative visualization is a thing. People talk about it, books were written about it, the principles are the same, right? The universe yield to willpower, right? Countless books about that, countless books about that,

countless thoughts about that. If you look at the underlying patterns, again, you're going to find, oh, there is something here, right? And so, again, to weaponize it and make it in a pragmatic, practical practice. There is something about falling one side of this fence. Either you are happening to this world or this world is happening to you. And it's a mind state and you have to make a choice.

And if typically, when people, you know, if I come from a pragmatic perspective, which that's the side I live on and that's the choice I made, I was born into this world allegedly it was here before I came right we don't know actually but allegedly there's a history allegedly is not a software that was downloaded into me like it's not like

I just started to play call of duty and all the buildings were there for whatever reason because a programmer put it there right so you could argue about like was it really here but let's say you know I was born into this world the world was already here that means I am impacting this world whatever I'm going to say do

whatever activities I'm going to have in this world, I am changing now its course because I'm here. So I'm an impactor, right? And if I take that side and I accept it like, okay, that means it also comes with responsibility. Whatever I'm going to do will affect permanently this physical reality and it will have long-lasting impact, right? So I'm responsible for the things I will say and do in this world.

That's one side. Or while, you know, the victim mentality of like, I'm here and why did this happen to me? Why me? Why me? Why me? There's, if you look at people, they fall on one side of the story. The victim mentality is, I'm here, all these things are happening to me. And, you know, I see why it's easy to take that side because data is flying at you 24-7. So you, because you're the perceiver, it's easy to take that stance.

Like, I'm here and I'm perceiving all these things. and all these things are happening and all these things happen to me and stop my toe and it was it's your fault yeah not the couch right but all and the people do this to me and that and and then you pick that side and so you are now you're a traveler you're not a traveler or passenger you're a passenger in this and generally those people don't really go far in life you're a passenger you're a victim totally or you say i'm no no i'm here you guys have to live with me now yeah i'm here i arrive And you know, it sounds like, well, that's an egoist point of view. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I am here. That's what the ego. I am. I'm here and I am going to impact this world and I'm going to live by my rules as much as possible. I'm going to do the things I want to do. Right.

And if you are solid in that side, you will succeed. You have to because you also take responsibility. Like anything that happened to me, right, is my fault or my achievement. If I was run a wrong place in the wrong time, even not. Some sign I missed, something I didn't read. I was there. I got myself there. I didn't accidentally appear somewhere out of nowhere without my will being involved.

So I take full responsibility for everything there is in my life. Right? That mentality, that sort of, that path will, that will make you successful. There's no other way. And now, coupled that with this idea of unbending intimately. 10. Whatever I focus on now, I'm not going to take my eyes off of it. Even though I'm understanding that I will have to do a million other things, but not for a second. I forget I'm going for the bread that I end it in the morning. You still left the house to go get that bread.

And all these things, you can find it through, again, meditation or the spiritual processes, right? Or you can shortcut it because you can find it in those spiritual realms through psychedelics as well. And the two together actually pretty powerful because one enforces the other one verifies the other and then you always have this world this agreed upon reality when

I can check it did this work right it wasn't like well let me read your palm and you know and then this is no this is verifiably I wanted to do that happen

I wanted to experience that experience that and then the more and more you have the more and more will happen. You just open the door for that. That's an actual mechanical process.

Well, guys, we just did a four-hour podcast. No way. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. I think it's a perfect spot to end this. Yeah, yeah. I didn't realize. This has been a fucking mind melt

of a conversation, man. I appreciate you guys both coming and doing this. Thank you for having a silt on. It was a fucking awesome meeting you, brother. send me it. Thank you, brother. Thank you for having us. Yeah, yes, of course. Tell people where they can find out the next thing you're doing with the DMTX experiment.

Or not the DMTX experiment. Cota Reality, yeah. The laser code of reality experiment. So they can always go to website, code of reality.com. We have a new website coming up right now. And then go thoughts on YouTube, D-A-N-G-O thoughts. And Code of Reality Inc. is basically going to be now an official thing and we're going to be working to actually, you know,

bringing the right kind of minds together. We have incredible minds coming into the space from literally, well, I don't know how many of them I can talk about yet, but from scientists to people who are like, you know, like just higher level thinkers and software engineers. And like, we really have incredible people that are coming online. And we're very excited about bringing everybody together and encouraging more entities around us

to also do more of the same, more of like investigative processes that are more open-minded and more also I guess open-hearted so not so much rigid with what they believe is true including more things and Zoltan I mean Zolten I mean I guess you're a famous person but what's what's what we're we're we're we're we need to get your vet your band some more views where can we uh it's a very family friendly friendly name of five finger dad punch actually came from a conch movie but you know it's a manifestation of all these things well I yes and no I mean it's there was an old kung fu movie five fingers of that oh and then and then remember the the five

what was it the five point exploding heart technique in uh hill bill right oh yeah yeah i was literally watching that movie and I'm like man that sounds so ridiculous it should be a bad name so here we are right so so you look at it and a dot com wasn't taken because it was so crazy, right? So it's both the best and the worst bad name on the planet, you know, because it's pretty incredible. You know, when some old ladies sitting next to me...

Right, some old lady sitting next to me in the airport and ask me like, oh, you look like a musician. I'm like, oh, here we go. I'm going to have to tell her, you know, so I'm going to brief face it. Like, so, do you know what kung fu is? Because otherwise you get the face. But look, yes, that's the manifestation of all that

that what we are talking about. So that's a vehicle for me. But what Danny was saying, I would add to that. Like, that's exactly what has to happen. I think we need to achieve a critical mess. That means high achievers and high-level thinkers, you know, the intellectual giants need to come together and explore this. There are a lot of people involved.

There are a lot of them are already there. And most of them will not yet speak out. Like I was silent. about it for over two decades. Because it just wasn't the time. There was not a, you know, right now we can talk about, you know, encounters with, you know, with extraterrestrials and people no longer think that you're crazy.

20 years ago, you definitely were, I had experiences that had witnesses and we were like, holy cow, this is actually happening, right? That 20 years ago, I couldn't even open my mouth about. And then, so this psychotic space was kind of similar. So as I said, we're reaching that space where, end of childhood and and then we need to pull together the the people so we can create achieve the critical mass and we start to define the agreed upon rules or reality of dot space the same way we define what this is right there are rules there there are happenings that and and visions and

and things that we see and experience that are verifiable by massive momental of people. So that means there is a rule set. This is real. There is something here that that is important. And what's more important than then try to find these answers? Why are we here? What is happening? What is perception? What is going on? Really? That is the underlying question when everything else. Everything that exists around us from science to everything is basically a form of discovery of that very basic original question. What is going on? What is this?

Why? What are we? Why? What's our purpose? I don't think there is a more important question than that. I agree. I think what you guys are doing is really pushing the conversation forward in a big, big, big way. So we should definitely do this again down the road, man.

Absolutely. Hopefully we have fun things to update on. Oh, yeah, man. All right, guys. Thank you, Danny. Good night, everybody. Thank you.