Danny Jones Podcast - #320 - Deep Sea Alien Bases: The Underwater CIA Project No One Talks About | UAP Gerb

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones UAP Gerb is a researcher & documentarian specializing in UFO reverse engineering/crash retrieval research, UFO legacy program investigation, and UFO whistleblower analysis. SPONSORS https://trueclassic.com/danny - Upgrade your wardrobe and save on True Classic today. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @UAPGerb FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Operation laser strike 12:59 - DOE's involvement in UFO crash retrieval 16:35 - Insider's description of Area 51 25:42 - NRO is hunting underwater alien craft 36:51 - Underwater UFO crash retrievals 39:07 - Underground & underwater military bases 45:39 - Elon is wrong about aliens 55:39 - Why nobody likes Steven Greer 01:06:43 - Alien reproduction vehicles 01:19:00 - Triangle UFOs 01:22:02 - Brainwave controlled ICBM missiles 01:28:46 - How secret UFO programs are funded 01:36:34 - Dark history of the department of energy (DOE) 01:39:13 - Battelle 01:48:33 - Which "whistleblowers" can be trusted? 01:57:17 - What they REALLY found at Roswell 02:06:54 - The immaculate constellation 02:15:10 - NASA doesn't want us back on the moon 02:24:12 - Is Elon trying to create a surveillance state? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Unlock over $3,500 in business and travel value annually with statement credits on select purchases from brands like Dell, Hilton and Adobe, and other benefits. American Express Business Platinum. There's nothing like it. Based on total potential value of statement credits on select purchases and other benefits, enrollments required, monthly and other limits in terms apply. Learn more at Americanexpress.com slash business dash platinum. That documentary on Jonathan Wagan, I had heard of him, but I had never heard any of the backstory that you described. Oh, it's interesting. What was going on in? What was it, Peru?

Yeah, 1997, Operation Laser Strike. Operation Laser Strike. Never heard of it. So this was a classified U.S. Southcom, U.S. Southern Command Operation to track narco traffic, drug traffic in Peru, Colombia, Bolivia, all sorts of South American countries. And the MACG, the Marine Air Control Group, 28, was sent down alongside some elements of the Air Force and a pretty large joint program, including the CIA, to set up TPS 43 and other radar systems to track some of these narco planes. And so Jonathan Waygant, there's still debate on whether his station was in Pukalpa, Peru, which is kind of central Peru, Iquitos Peru, which is northern Peru, because he wasn't privy to where he was taken for this radar detachment to track the narco. traffic. I personally think this is northern Peru because he just gave a lot of details about the flight time down to Peru, details about time spent on planes. So one morning, late March, early April, he is doing nighttime guard duty. And a sergeant comes up to him, I think this is

Sergeant Montaligre and says, hey, there's been a crashed craft. We need to go out and see if it's friendly. Nothing about UFOs, just a craft crash. This can be a plane. So Weigant, Sergeant Allen, Sergeant Atkins and about seven other Marines all drive in a direction to go find this downed aircraft. By the time they reached the LZ after a combination of driving and trekking, the Marines come across a ravine where a about a 20 meter in length egg-shaped craft is just stuck in a granite cliff face. Probably granite, Wagant doesn't fully know for sure what the material is, but wedged in there. There's fluid leaking out of the craft. There's what looks to be three hatches, one of them,

open with possibly a non-human arm hanging out of the craft. And this liquid is like clear, but it's viscous like syrup. And the craft itself looks somewhat metallic, but it's changing colors like purple and green. The best I can describe that is the mother of pearl effect, similar to oil on water. So, Wagant gets pretty close to the craft. It's way above him, but he gets pretty close under it. He gets the fluid all over himself.

And it's to this day, like removed hair from his legs. It discolored his camis or his battle dress uniform. And so after about 10 to 15 minutes, at the site and some interesting details about the craft is there was a light going around its circumference that seemed to power down almost seemed like the craft shut off including a sound like a guitar amp that eventually died down. Waygant eventually kind of came to hearing Montalil, sorry, hearing sergeant Allen and Adkins yelling at him to, hey, step away from the craft. And during this time, he felt like, I know you and Jesse talked about Jake Barber

and some of the psionics and stuff. He felt like there was something in the craft reaching out to him trying to communicate with him, trying to tell him that it was okay, don't worry, help us, but it's all going to be okay, which is really bizarre, really strange. And to this day, he has seen like these creatures, what he calls them, in his dreams that were in the craft. He doesn't know how to explain how he felt like these things were contacting him. But it's really strange. But here's where, when did he say this for the first time publicly?

The year 2000 on Stephen Greer's Disclosure Project Archive. Wow. So he was part of the 2000 Disclosure Briefing project where Greer was doing some really good work getting whistleblowers together. And Way Gant's testimony was in there and has really stood out forever. He reached out to Greer because he was facing a lot of reprisals and he thought he was going to die. Wow. So there's some stuff he doesn't like talking about and he didn't really talk about live with me, but stuff like being surveilled, having his money messed with, having, you know, his cars tampered with. And he was just really afraid for his life.

So he decided to speak out. But so how long ago did you talk to him? I talked to him almost daily. But I... You talk to him daily? Yeah, he's one of my good friends. I love Jonathan. He's a stand-up guy.

He's hilarious. He's great. So I talk to him all the time. But getting back to his story, so Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Adkins holler at him to move away from the craft. As soon as these Marines start heading up the ravine, and this is the most interesting part to me because, you know, my channel's pretty focused around crash retrieval and reverse engineering. A couple of U.S. Army. CH-47 helicopters fly over them. As these helicopters are getting to land in a nearby clearing, the Marines, including

Weigant, including Allen, including Adkins, are intercepted by a team of men in black camouflage. And stop me if this sounds familiar when you hear cases like Michael Herrera, a team of men in black camouflage that apprehend the Marines, strip them of their gear. Weigant, being feisty, being like 23 years old, tries to swing at one of them, clocks him in the head. And these guys at that point make an example out of Waygant push his face in the ground, he gets more

of the liquid on him, beat the crap out of him. And then out of the helicopters come, a team of people ranging from rain jackets to large hazmat gear, mop gear, mission-oriented protection posture, marked and stamped with DOE. Department of Energy. No shit. And so

a couple of these DOE guys in protective gear see Weigant. They strip him of his clothes. Waygant is handcuffed to a stretcher. His feet are gagged. And he is put on a CH47 out of there. It doesn't know what happened to Atkin or Allen's. But here's what's really interesting about the DOE. The Department of Energy has its own team.

It's called the Nuclear Emergency Support Team. And this is basically a rapid reaction team that can be sent anywhere in the continental United States or around the world to react to nuclear or radiological signatures. And one of the governing bodies of Nest, the DOE Nest, nuclear emergency support team, is the 1954 atomic energy agreement. 1954, if this sounds familiar to you, are you familiar with the 2023 and 2024 National Defense Authorization Act

UAP disclosure amendment? I know I'm throwing a lot right now. I don't know a lot of the details. Okay, so like a quick sign out to that, the UAPDA, which is probably going to be pushed again in the upcoming Senate conference. I hope that gets pushed through. But the whole point of this amendment

was to bring forth disclosure of UFO legacy programs, programs hidden within the U.S. Department of Defense and Intelligence communities that are housing, exploiting, or reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin, TUOs. And one of the governing bodies listed in this legislation that hide some of these materials is the 1954 Atomic Energy Act that considers UFO materials as transclassified foreign nuclear materials. So inherently, that means like anything that could be considered nuclear or radiological is pretty much born, restricted, born classified, and can be pigeonholed to avoid standard declassification processes.

What's interesting about the DOE nest is their founding authority was also the 1954 atomic energy agreement. So you have legislation like the UAPDA talking about 54 being how the classification system for UFO materials is born. And then you have stories like Jonathan Wegan encountering DOE teams whose given authority is that same 54 agreement. So it's very interesting. Also, there's provable instances that DOE Nest was actually looking to operate in South America,

Colombia, Bolivia, Peru at that time in 1997. There was a Russian probe that went errant. It was going to crash. U.S. Southcom thought this Russian probe was going to crash either in the Pacific or somewhere near Peru and Bolivia. So DOE was actively using defense support program satellites to monitor the region later that year. So DOE Nest was already interested in South America. Wow. And there was a lot of spooky shit going on in South America in the 90s.

Like there was a lot of, there was a lot of UFO crash incidents. Yeah. And there was a lot of, I think that Jacques-fil-A book was earlier than the 90s, though. Jacques-Flea wrote a book about like some crazy massacre that happened in South America, where like basically all these people were slaughtered. Have you heard of this? It sounds somewhat familiar, but not fully. I think Jesse was the one who told me about it.

But yeah, no, South America and Mexico, So that period of time was like very active with this kind of stuff. Well, because same year we have Varginia Brazil. James Fox's big case, right? Yep, yep. And I guess he's doing a lot more work on that. He just talked to, I think it was Chris Ramsey or somebody that he's got more information coming out about that.

So that'll be pretty darn interesting. In 1978 in Bolivia, there was a case of a almost like a tic-tac, like a cylindrical shaped object crashing into the mountains of Bolivia. A U.S. Air Force team called Moondust, Project Moondust, was. dispatch to kind of investigate that region. And I'm trying to think what else in Mexico, kind of like what you're talking about in 1974 in Mexico, there's a pretty famous kind of underrepresented crash retrieval case called Koyame Mexico, northern Mexico, of a crash saucer that a Mexican retrieval team went to go get, but there was some sort of toxic or biological hazard in the craft

that killed the entire Mexican recovery team. And then of course, the Americans and their CH53 Chinook swooped in and took the craft. However, there's, of course, an argument. you can make that probably maybe our guys. The Americans took them out. But there's a South America and Central America ton of crash retrieval stories. Right. A lot of marine crash retrieval stories. You have Jonathan Weigant.

You have like the testimony of Michael Herrera. And there are some other whistleblowers who aren't public who have talked about seeing such teams in the continental United States, these black teams with craft. So it's really interesting. And then kind of rounding out the Weigant story, he was then on the, on the, on the, on the, 47 taken to an unknown base into an underground section of a base where he was held for two days. And why was he the only one that was taken out of there? That's a great question. My guess is because he was contaminated with the liquid. Atkins and Alan did not get covered in the liquid. But the weird thing is,

Wigant didn't have any like medical tests, right? Because I've hypothesized he was taken to the Namru Navy medical research unit six in Iquitos Peru. But it's not like he was subjected to blood drawn, all that stuff. The one weird thing is he was forced to give in like a forced to take an anthrax booster right after that, which Michael Herrera also had to take an anthrax booster after an anthrax booster. And another Marine also had to take an anthrax booster in 97, which is weird that there's a lot of anthrax boosters right after crash retrieval encounters. But I think that's why he's separated. So he doesn't know what happened to Atkins or Allen at this point. But in, in- He still doesn't talk into them since? No, he doesn't like him. They don't like him.

Oh, wow. Part of what's a little weird about this case is one of those two, Atkins or Allen, I reached out to both. One of them got back to me and I emailed them just cordially saying like, hey, I'd like to talk to you about your time in laser strike specifically 1997 and possibly anomalous crashed aircraft. And I send emails out from my UAP Gerb email. It doesn't have my information. Right. None of that. So I email one of them and they respond, hello, my full name.

Which is, of course, like a bully intimidation. tactic and the guy just tried to call Jonathan crazy, tried to downplay him. But, you know, he did say my full name when I had never given out my information before to him, nor since, nor on my channel. Has Jonathan, did he tell you about like ever being like contacted by anyone from the government or intimidated and then tried to like shut them up, people trying to shut him up? Yeah, and that's part of the reason he went to Greer. At Drew Classic, it's not just about fit and fabric. It's about helping everyday guys show up with purpose and confidence every single day. Their gear fits right, it feels amazing, and it's priced for the everyday person. What sets them apart is the message behind it all,

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That's T-R-U-E-C-L-S-S-I-C-com slash Danny to get hooked up today. It's linked down below. Now back to the show. He said that the FBI would show up at his house and show up at his grandma's house, like looking to talk to him. He never talked to him. So he was pretty spooked. Sort of like the men in black, right? If you were calling the men in black telling people not to talk about their encounters.

Right. And these nest teams. So these nest teams are part of the Department of Energy. And it's basically like they come, they bring in all of the top tier special operators. Not quite. And I'm sorry. I should have specified that more. It's more of a science and technology team.

Okay. They just deal with the science. They deal with setting up a site, neutralizing signatures, debriefing, containment, all that stuff. But the interesting thing about Nest is, of course, it is a DOE department, but it operates out of contractors. Contractors including Raytheon, Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Sandia National Labs, and EGNG. EGNG, of course, is the infamous company Bob Lizar said hired him to work at Area 51S4 to reverse engineer propulsion devices on the sports model. Yeah.

I know you cover it deeply in your video, but like after they extracted him out, does he or does anyone else have any idea what happened to that craft or what they could have done with it? No. And that, Jonathan and I talked about that. I mean, that thing was pretty large. And if it was stuck in granite, how the heck was that thing taken out? Right.

Like there were CH47s on the ground. The team would have had to extract this thing from a granite cliff face almost. And how does a, does something get lodged in granite? You would think that like it would have that would mean it's harder than granite. Right. If it went through the granite, what kind of material is harder than granite? I don't some sort of meta material, maybe like a shield around it. Maybe that translucent mother of pearl effect was some sort of shield like material.

And why did it crash? I know you and Jesse talked a little bit about why UFOs crash. Jonathan hypothesizes that this was shot down from a Hawk MIM 23 or similar missile system. And I know, you know, how are highly advanced. non-human craft shot down, right? It seems a little bit silly. A ballistic missile could take down a spacecraft like that. Yeah. You know, maybe, maybe there's some true to that. There's some other cases we can talk about about shootdowns as well as the strategic defense initiative under Reagan, which there's a lot of really interesting ties that there were some backdoor programs for some

space-based shootdown weapons of UFOs. But what Wagan thinks here is this was a Hawk MIM 23 airburst system that just exploded near the target. And some of the fragging just took it out. Oh, like a shotgun blast missile kind of out. But that's what he thinks, right? He doesn't have any sort of of confirming evidence for that. It's just speculation on his part. Yeah. And then when he, so he claimed in 2000 that he, they were like telepathically communicating with him.

That's wild. But what's interesting too, he talks about it. He talked about like a three, four fingered arm hanging out the craft. Yeah. Greer edited that out of his, of Waygant's interview. Why do you think that is? I have no idea because Greer likes to speak about, uh, kind of love and light communication. And these beings were very friendly to Jonathan asking for help saying,

everything's going to be okay. So I don't know. In that same interview, Greer also cut out James Fox asking Jonathan questions. Now, why was that? I don't know. I don't know why Greer would cut it out, but, you know. Maybe he didn't want to, maybe he thought like the descriptions of fingers and like some weird alien arm hanging out would make it more unbelievable. And he wanted to kind of like leave the stuff in there that was more plausible.

Yeah. But with the stories of crash retrieval, there's always the baggage of biologics. Right. So there's so many cases with crash retrievals, there's stories of biologics. And I think that for a lot of people is a big, big stretch to kind of wrap their head around. Because it's one thing to think that non-human spacecraft, maybe from another planet, maybe from a different existence, maybe future humans like Dr. Mike Masters likes to kind of hypothesize on is crashing here. Whole another subject to think that there are beans in here and what those could be, either possible morphologies and so forth. Yeah.

I'm sure you've heard, I'm sure you've heard the story of Annie Jacobson's description of Area 51. Oh yeah. The guy she talked to from EG and G. What do you make of that? So George Knapp, I'm trying to think about that guy's name. It's slipping me right now. She only released it like last year, I think, after she dropped her book. She kept a secret in the book.

Right. But she released his name because I think he's dead now. Yes. So I'm trying to think and I'm trying to think what the name is. But this was a source of George Knapp's 10, 20 years before that. The guy who worked at EG&G at Area 51 head of special projects. Okay. This guy told George Knapp, told George Naps.

Knapp, and you can look at it in a weaponized interview with him and Jeremy Corbell. I'll send you the link. I remember seeing this. He said that that director of special programs at EG and G told George Knapp that there were beans and craft held at Area 51 and told Annie Jacobson something completely different. Why would he do that? That's strange. Isn't that intriguing?

Because Annie's description is very, it's so detailed because she's with the family and him. And apparently he told his family this for the. first time and they were like really upset about it. Like how do you make that? I mean, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to think about that. Especially because in that weaponized interview, George Knapp was a little bit hot under the collar.

Because he said like, hey, I'm, I, gosh, I'm trying to remember this guy's name. Steve, maybe you could find it. He, he says that this EG and G. And just type in Annie Jacobson, EGNG source. Yeah, basically what. Basically what this guy told Annie, and this was way after he talked to George Knapp, obviously. Or was it? Yeah, it was like 10 years after.

It was 10 years after. Okay. Basically, what he told Annie is that it was a Russian drone that was flown here for... By disfigured people, right? By disfigured people, by Mengele, the Nazi guy, and disfigured children, basically, to make them look like aliens. And they crashed, it crashed, whether on purpose or not. And he was like, well, why wouldn't you expose this? Alfred O'Donnell.

That's it. Alfred O'Donnell. So she asked him, she goes, well, that's fucked up. Why wouldn't, why would the U.S. government keep this secret? Because this makes the Soviets or Russia look terrible. And he said the reason they didn't expose it is because EG and G started doing the same exact thing with children. See, that's interesting that that said because.

And she said his whole family was there. Yeah. Listening to this. And they were like, why did you keep this from us? That's just terrible. That's also something that was parroted by Rick Doty. Air Force. He said the same thing.

OSI officer. Yeah. and in Greers, I think it was his 2017 documentary unacknowledged. That was the first time I ever heard of Roswell specifically being like disfigured people sent from Russia, which I don't know. It's interesting that Alfred O'Donnell on one hand told George Knapp that there are non-human beings and craft under Area 51 and told Annie Jacobson that this was a Russian experiment. Regardless of outside Annie Jacobson and George Knapp, there's plenty about Area 51 specifically and, of course, EGNG that's well. Well worth investigation and as well as that kind of dives into the subject of contractors with UFO technology, UFO materials, UFO bodies.

It's a pretty deep rabbit hole that there's a lot too outside of just Albert O'Donnell because that's so weird he tells Knapp one thing and Jacobson another. Yeah, it is weird. And it makes me, it makes me wonder if what he told Annie was more closer to the truth because he was older, a lot older, closer to his death and his family. family was there and he told his family and they were visibly upset according to Annie. Unless Andy is making it up, which I doubt she is. I doubt she is either. Annie seems pretty respectful. I know she disagrees a lot with some of the more UFO stuff. But doesn't she also, she also is a proprietor that Area 51 S4 is real, right? Yes. Like I think she's put forward a badge of somebody who worked at Site 4. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that. And of course,

Site 4 is what Bob Lazar said he worked in a sports model 4. S4 is really interesting. It's like the auxiliary site below Groom Lake. It's just south of Groom Lake Area 51. And then you have Tonapa just northwest. Yeah. Yeah. The S4 stuff is crazy, man. I don't know. I don't think, I don't remember she talked about S4 in the, in the Area 51 book or not. But it's really interesting. Some of the stuff that they were doing at Area 51 right after World War II. And, you know, she explains how the money was stolen. I think it was Dulles stole a bunch of money. from the Reconstruction in Europe fund to build Area 51. And they were doing all kinds of crazy CIA test flights and building, you know, building the, those, those blackbirds.

Yeah. Those and the U2 and all that stuff there. But I don't know. I don't know. Like, do you think that Area 51 is still being utilized for this kind of stuff? Probably. And I also think that there's probably underground facilities beneath Area 51. Specifically maybe a facility built into the preexisting boron mine there.

and that could be considered a deep underground military base. So I made a video on there was this whistleblower who went really quiet. He was a lieutenant colonel at Edwards Air Force Base out of the 412th test wing. The Edwards 412th test wing is what's called a major range test facility base, an MRTFBs, an MRTFB. There's just over 20 in the continental United States. These include things like Dougway Proving Ground, the Utah Test and Training Range, Fort Huachuka, Edwards, 412, China Lake, Pax River, and your favorite that you talked about with Dolan, Outek, the Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Command. These operate between Navy, Air Force Army, and Defense

Organization, right? So Edwards 412 is a MRTFB. And this individual, I call him Ed, just because I don't want to burn his real name. Ed claims that he worked as an electronics warfare test director at Edwards Air Force Base at the 412 testing reverse engineered vehicles, reverse engineered ARV, alien reproduction vehicles, whatever you want to call him. And that he was initially stationed at Nellis Air Force Base where he operated under Nellis between Edwards at Area 51 and S4. And the thing is this, I hope this guy goes public sometime because I've tried to track him down with every avenue.

I have his name. I have his number. I have called him. He's blocked me. I've emailed him. He's blocked me. I've text him. He's blocked me.

Heck, I've even added him on Snapchat. And funny enough, that's the one place where he's ever like read my message and not blocked me Snapchat. This is a grown man. And his, his official records do, of course, say he was at Area 51, that he was at Nellis Air Force Base, that he was at Edwards. And so this guy claims that he worked on, serving as the test director on reverse engineered vehicles, kind of operating as the middleman between scientists and ARV pilots. Hmm. And so I think that that existing program, which he said existed.

between Area 51, S4, and Edwards is likely still going on today. But of course, that's a pretty, that's a topic that requires a lot of kind of, I guess, credibility in UFO crash retrievals to think about ARV, alien reproduction vehicles and kind of reverse engineering vehicles. What do you think about that? I know you've talked to Jesse a little bit kind of on your stance about UFO. Where do you stand specifically on copycat vehicles, if so to speak? I don't know.

I have no idea. Like you're saying, you're saying like, what do I think about us being able to recreate a UFO? Yeah. Like the Tick-Tac type stuff? Tick-Tac, triangles, saucers. I don't know. I think it's a mix of shit probably, right? I think like the Tic-Tac was likely something that we have that we created, you know,

maybe some black aerospace or like Lockheed or something like that, some sort of like black technology that nobody knows about. Maybe that's part of the $21 trillion that's missing that Catherine was talking about. that created the Tic Tacs or something like that. I don't think it was like foreign military. I think it was probably us testing our own stuff on those jets that had just gotten their radar upgraded. Now, you know, what Dolan was explaining to me is that there's documented accounts of these underwater UFOs

coming out of the ocean in like 1717, which is crazy. And since talking to him, it's, you know, it's apparent that there's just a mixed bag of shit here. Like, is it something that's been here for millions of years that lives under the water? Is it, it's probably also us that we've probably recreated shit that we found? You know, then additionally, what me and Jesse were talking about is, like, he was explaining how all this anti-gravity research went dark in the 50s and just, and just, and just went nowhere. And then string theory came about. So, like, that probably has something to do with it.

The towns and brown stuff. You know, there's so many pieces of this puzzle. It's crazy. Well, I know you and Dolan were talking about the subject of USO. And I know you guys brought up the underwater NRO. Yeah. Because you didn't dive too much into it. So that's something I'd love to talk about because it's so intriguing.

Yeah. And also involves a pretty interesting, two really interesting crash retrieval stories. So how come I've never heard of the underwater? Is it classified or is it? Oh, yeah. Hey, guys, if you're not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video.

Back to the show. So it's not, there's no website for the underwater NRO. No. Because you would think they could make an excuse for it. They could say, oh, yeah, we're just trying to monitor nuclear submarines, you know, adversary submarines.

So there is a Wikipedia page that's crap that calls it the hidden younger brother of the NRO. So in U.S. intelligence, you have the big five agencies, the CIA, NSA, DIA, NRA, and NGA, And there's the hidden neuro, the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office, whose activities are seemingly more sensitive than even the NROs. There are admirals in the Navy that I have spoken to who did not know that neuro was a thing. Really? And so I sent him a little bit of stuff on Nero and they went, oh.

So there's a couple books such as the intelligence community by Jeffrey T. Richelson. Great book. I really recommend everybody read that. And some other sources that can really dive in to learn a bit more about. Nero, as well as former Admiral, Director of Naval Intelligence, CIA Deputy Director, NSA Director, Bobby Ray Inman. Bobby Ray Enman in a, I think it was 2018, finally admitted in a speech at some university in 2018 that he directed Nero. But he still couldn't talk about it to this day, which is interesting. He said when he became Director of Naval Intelligence, he wore another hat that was Nero, but they still didn't want him to talk about it.

And in another interview for a university, I think this was some calendar. California University, he said that he had gotten trouble before for talking about Nero. So Nero was started in 1969, and it was started to kind of coordinate the navies and the CIA's reconnaissance activities, similar to the how the NRO was started to coordinate the Air Forces and the CIA's activities, right? And so part of the founding programs for Nero were to kind of coordinate operations, keep track of and commence missions with some of our sensitive nuclear submarines, kind of tap undersea cables. I think this was called the Ivy Bells program and as well as just underwater reconnaissance

underwater monitoring. The neuro was supposed to exist between the Navy and CIA's Directorate of Science and Technology. Now that Directorate of Science and Technology, we can talk a lot more about that because that it has some tremendous connections to UFO crash retrievals. But But really early on, the CIA just kind of took command of Nero. And it wasn't until 1972, three years after its creation, that John Warner, Secretary of the Navy, was finally put as Neuro's director. But then it changed hands back a little bit because in 74, Bobby Ray Inman became director of Nero. And of course, he went on to be a CIA spook.

So Nero's kind of claim to fame is using vessels like the USS Hallibate, USS Seawolf, the USS Jimmy Carter, the NR1, the United States smallest nuclear submarine. and the Glomar Explorer. Have you heard of the Glomar Explorer? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So K129, Soviet sub, crashes near Hawaii a little bit northwest. The CIA and Nuro create the Glomar Explorer to go retrieve the vessel.

And I think it embarks in 1972, right? And conventional wisdom, only a third of the K129 is retrieved, maybe more, probably more, and it might be buried up in the Pacific Northwest. But then the global. Lomar went on to be used by Lockheed Martin and its subsidiaries for 20 years for quote unquote deep sea mining operations and such. So the really, really, really interesting kind of connections with Nero come with chief scientists of special projects for the Navy, John P. Craven. And so in 1964, John P. Craven was set to start the deep systems or deep submergent systems project, the DSSP. And I'm sorry, there's a ton of acronyms.

I'll try to spell them all out. That's why I get flack for a lot. And this was to drastically increase the Navy's deep ocean engineering capabilities. And so the DSSP gave Craven the task. We need you to be able to commence engineering and Navy operations at way bigger depths. So 1964, Craven starts the DSSP. In 1965, Craven receives a classified briefing of something called project Sandaller. Sand Dollar is the earliest probably.

is probably sap, within sap, within sap, we can kind of make sense of. It was a program that was hidden within a program, hidden within another program, hidden within the Polaris submarine missile program, which was oddly enough spearheaded by Admiral Raybourne, who went on to go work at SAIC, but we can talk about that later. But this program was highly classified in an itemized inventory of a collection of objects on the seafloor for national security importance, ranging from the Atlantic, just all around the world and it wasn't just aircraft or nuclear stuff. So commencing after that briefing in 1965 on Sand Dollar, Craven under the DSSP, the deep system submergence projects, creates the DSRV,

deep submergence rescue vehicle and DSV deep submergence search vehicle. And these are supposed to be vehicles that kind of can satisfy the DSSP. So the DSRV, the deep submergence rescue vehicle is supposed to be a, basically a submarine rescue vehicle. This was out of response to the loss of the USS Thresher. And this would be something that a submarine team can get in a small little submarine that can be transported anywhere around the world at 72 hours. It's that rapid reaction. It can be piggybacked on a vessel.

Specifically, Craven says in the Silent War, his memoirs, the USS Hallibut and the USS Seawolf to neurovessels that he directly names to rescue any submarine crew anywhere in the world, Lottie, lait, dot. And the DSSV, which is used for ocean surveying, ocean engineering retrieval operations and so forth. There were supposed to be six DSRV and six DSSV, the two submersible units built. But only two DSRVs were ever built, the Mystic and Avalon out of Lockheed Martin. So there were only two of those ever built. However, that brings me to a really interesting crash retrieval story.

So you know the art. Bell Show, right? Yes. So in 2002, I think it was about summer of 2002, a caller came on air and said, hello, my name is Mark. I was a former marine diver that went on to go work on a DSRB crew. And so this guy tells the story of in 1991 or 1992, as I'm getting the dates a little bit wrong, there was a survey ship in the North Atlantic, about 250 miles outside of Aberdeen, Scotland, that picked up radiological signatures on the sea floor. And that, The DSRV was dispatched to go check this thing out. And so the group is steamed out to the North Atlantic.

I think this is in the Rockwell, Rockall Trough in the North Atlantic, just northwest of Aberdeen, Scotland. Because I looked at like depths. And this guy said this was about a mile and a half deep. Yeah. And so the team dives. So where specifically would it be again?

The Rockall Trough. The Rockall Trough. Yes. Roll up a map of that, if you can, do you? So the team dives in the DSRF. which could also be a DSSV, a deep system search vehicle, one of the two, because Craven said that John P. Craven, remember, chief scientist of special projects out of the Navy, that although there were never official missions for DSRV or DSSV because no submarines ever sunk after the thresher, these were sent on numerous clandestine operations. Wow. If it might be a Google Earth search might be a little bit better.

Well, you had it, but then you lost it. There you go. Rock all? Yeah. Hit layers on the bottom left. Zoom in on that. Oh, shit, look at that. Yeah, so this was about a mile and a half deep,

so we need over 8,000 feet sea floor. Wow. And so Mark and his group are steamed out from Virginia. My guess is this is a really clandestine DSSV because the DSSV have operational depths of 20,000 feet, but were apparently never built, but used according to Craven for clandestine purposes to this region.

The team dives, by the time they get to the seafloor, they see a large triangle wedged in the seafloor. The triangle has no cockpit, no visible means of propulsion. It's wedged in the seafloor and around its circumference has clifick writing. Same thing as the 1965 Kexburg, Pennsylvania crash. Same thing as the Roswell Eyebeam. Same thing as what Danny Sheehan has said he found in the classified bluebook files. And so there's a really anomalous triangle down here. that there's no visible means of propulsion, nothing they can see.

So the team goes back up and forms the steamship, what they saw. A marine archaeologist is brought down. They go take photos, videos, and survey the vessel. The marine archaeologist estimates that that triangle had been buried within the kind of the seafloor for 30 or 40 years. And so eventually the team is tasked with rigging materials to the craft to try to bring it up. And because the size is about 70 feet in height, the team estimates this is about the weight of an F-14, right? And an F-14's interesting because the NR1 had previously recovered a lost F-14 off a U.S. aircraft carrier. But so the object is rigged up.

You know, the crew makes estimates based off the size, what metal might be, you know, involved brushed aluminum and so forth. But this object rises about three or four times faster once buoyancy is attached to it and it's kind of brought up to the ocean surface. The craft is eventually rigged up. Mark, once the DSRV crew is back on board, gets to see the craft again this time in person, about 70 feet long, a little bit rounded of a back, like a perfect triangle,

glyphic writing along the side, like gun metal color, no visible means propulsion, no lights. And eventually he and his crew are steamed off ship, never given another word about this. Not to sign any NDAs or anything, which is kind of interesting, but apparently the work they did was inherently classified

because the DSRV and the DSSSV was used for classified operations under Nero. That's fucking wild, bro. Yeah, it's a really interesting story. And it just went on Art Bell once. And I'm trying to track this down because Mark drew sketches of this for Art Bell. And he also provided Art Bell the names of the other Navy guys he was with. So I want to track these guys down and find out more about this story.

Have you tried reaching out? Yeah, I know a guy who used to work for Art Bell. And I'm trying. No luck because Art Bell has passed. But gosh, would that be something to get? get after. Yeah, I wonder how many more stories there are like that of retrieving stuff under the oceans, you know, because you don't really hear about that kind of stuff. No, there's 1967 Shag Harbor, of course, which occurred in Canada. But here's a real treat.

In 1972, there was an encounter of a man who worked as a gunnery instructor at Great Lakes Naval Station near Chicago. This guy, I think he went by the pseudonym R.K. related his story to Leonard Stringfield. Leonard Stringfield is one of the greatest UFO crash retrieval investigators of all time wrote status reports one through seven on UFO crash retrievals. RK claimed that in 72 at the Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, he was tasked to kind of deliver orders, deliver a message to, you know, a commanding officer. So as he goes to deliver to the commanding officer, he passes into a Quonset style hut on the premises. And in there is a large metallic teardrop shaped craft. No visible means of propulsion. Looks like a teardrop, looks like a

perfect mix between a teardrop and an egg, very smooth, one color and so forth. But here's what's interesting. He then meets a guy that was stationed in San Diego in the Navy. And this Navy guy said that he knew about that craft that was brought down and that it was brought down by a naval destroyer and recovered by the Glomar Explorer north of Hawaii in 1972. Wow. I think we've explored more of the moon than we have of our own ocean floors.

It's crazy. And if you look at, we were talking about this with Richard Dolan, too. Like, you can literally turn the globe. If you look at the Pacific Ocean, you can see there's a, there's a no fucking land. Yeah. It covers a more. It's huge. It's like a massive amount of this earth is ocean.

So what's interesting about the creation of neuro, the deep submergent systems project and all this in 1964. It seems like Sand Dollar had existed previously with an itemized inventory of everything that existed on the sea floor of national security interest. But until Craven created the DSSP following sand. dollar and then NERRA was created, there was no way the Navy could retrieve these items. So it seemed like the U.S. Navy had a large itemized inventory of all of these objects on the seafloor, but until Craven drastically increased the depths at which the Navy could conduct engineering operations and retrieval operations. Those just sat there. Now, what do you know

about the, that base in the Bahamas that me and Jesse was talking about? Oh, Outtech. Yeah. Is that still, is that thing still operational? Are they still doing work there? I'm not sure actually, but that brings up the point of like underwater bases, right? Yeah. There's a great author. His name's Richard Sauter. He has a book called Underground and Undersea Bases, where he talks about possible undersea bases worldwide, which is really interesting. And of course, it's very likely that there are like undersea neurobases for submarine refueling and such.

But I mean, the concept of undersea bases is interesting because already underground bases is incredibly interesting. The question about undersea bases is how do you power them? The logistics sound like a nightmare. Yeah. It seems like optimal though, right? Yeah. For cooling, especially if you have some sort of high temperature reactor. I mean, in the 1960s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineer published a bunch of deep basing studies on war to place deep underground military bases throughout the continental United States, but also published a ton of papers such as like self-contained nuclear reactors to power stiffs, subterranean facilities and so forth.

Wow. Yeah, that's one of the things that Catherine was saying that a lot of the missing money she thinks has been going to funding these constructions of these underground bases. Yeah. That's, I think, one of the most interesting topics in this subject because, you know, I've done a project on directly relating those to UFO programs and craft and materials being stored underground. And I have a friend who was former Army Public Affairs. This was about 2010 to 2013 area. And he relayed to me that he tried. traveled between a stiff, a sub-trading facility, as they call him, under Fort Bliss, Texas, and White Sands to Missile Range.

And he traveled between these locations via train. What? And he said that the train went so fast it reminded him of his fear of flying. Oh, my God. Because a lot of people will look at the kind of underground bases, systems, and connective tunnels and scoff it a little bit, because it's a logistic and engineering nightmare, right? But, you know, I digress back in the 1970s, the Rand Corporation, which is. is known as a federally funded research and development center, FFRDC. One of the employees,

high up scientists of the RAND Corporation, published something called the VHST, the very high-speed transit system, which was a massive underground train system that would connect New York to Los Angeles and basically be a massive underground tunnel system. And of course, if these tunnel systems exist, I think it's highly likely we got some of that technology

and ideas from the Nazis. Yeah. You know, before the end of World War II, there was a system called the, Roerban by some German scientists, which was a pneumatic train system to exist under Germany and to connect Berlin to France or Paris and a network of underground train systems to go at incredible speeds. This was a concept?

Yeah. But here's what's not a concept. That's really interesting. So Xavier Dorch was head of the Tot organization in Nazi Germany. The Todd organization had created the Autobahn, you know, that famous German highway with endless speeds. And at this time, Hans Komler and various really nasty Nazi scientists were using underground locations for aircraft, manufacturing and so forth, for contractors, but as well as continuity of government sites, such as the Regan Wormlager in Poland and Ordruff, which are these really, really crazy advanced underground locations that I think it was Ordrift even had like its own underground rail system connecting it. It was self-contained. And so Xavier Dorsch was one of these Swiss kid engineers for the TOT organization, which is similar to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. In 1947, with Operation Paperclip where the U.S. brought over a bunch of Nazi scientists, there was one report from Air Material Command that requested Xavier Dorsch specifically, as well as three other German Nazi technicians for underground plant construction.

So I think immediately after post-World War II is when underground or facilities or stiffs, immediately began construction. Because we plucked some of the Nazis best and brightest who had created such intricate structures under Germany to come work for us. Yeah. And if that stuff does exist, if they are spending money on all this crazy stuff

and they have all these secret programs to recover crafts and to build underground highways and bunkers, that would explain where a lot of that money is going that Catherine Fitz was talking about those trillions of dollars. Because it's not cheap, right? No, it's definitely not cheap. And, you know, the other question is,

who's in charge of it. Yeah. Who has control over all of it? You know, analyzing the structure of the supposed UFO legacy programs is so difficult to track, right? You know, if there are programs, which of course I believe very strongly there are, that there are DOD contractor, FFRDC, UARC, URQ, University-affiliated Research Center programs that deal with the exploitation, recovery, and reverse engineering of non-human technologies, how are these programs structured?

What sort of communication is done across the programs? How are the intelligence communities involved? And at the top of this, who is who is pulling the strains? Because it's not like this is a above board Air Force project, above board Navy project, not like a CIA project. All of this is inherently born within Saps and USAPs, unacknowledged special access program. Sorry, which Congress and even the executive branch to a certain degree doesn't need to be read in.

You have to have a need to know to access these things. Right. Yeah, that's what Stephen Greer was explained to me. He was like, he was explaining to me how like these top joint chiefs of staff people can't even get access to some of this stuff and that's it and the way he was describing it to me is like imagine if lockheed or one of these companies like this got so much technology that advanced so much after getting all this black budget that they've basically gone off the rails so far to where they have more power than like every foreign and domestic military combined to where they're kind of like a

like a breakaway military superpower that like doesn't have to answer to anybody. If like Catherine Austin Fitz says, if there is a some sort of segment existing within the U.S. military intelligence that has a secret space program, they are have the asymmetric advantage in every single warfighter capability. If somebody has ARV alien reproduction vehicles, which I believe they do, of course, they have a tremendous amount of advantages over any traditional human military. I mean, this is something David Grush has talked about as well in his news nation. You started to interrupt.

Did you see Elon's tweet today? No, what did he tweet? It might have been today or yesterday. But it was, Stephen, you can probably pull it up to, I might get it wrong. But he said something to the effect of like when shit hits the fan, at least we have the spaceships or something like this. Yeah, but what's Elon on about, right? He was on Joe Rogan. And he's told Joe Rogan, he knows there's no aliens because he has an all access pass to DOD programs.

That's nonsense. An all access passed to special access program, unacknowledged special access program, excluded program material, no foreign classification, special access required classification, absolute nonsense. You have to have a need to know to read into these programs. What you're talking about with Greer and some of these joint chiefs not being accessed, he's talking about Thomas Wilson from the Wilson Davis memo, who was deputy director of the DIA at the time, I believe. And he tried to gain access to some of these programs and was stonewalled by the special access program oversight committee senior review group. So Elon would definitely not have access to it. No, unless he has a specific need to know for specific programs. Like let's say that some of his Starlink satellites are interfering with the NRO's AI sentient program, right?

That, you know, there's some FOIA documents in 2023 show that the NRO sentient program had monitored tick-tacks over redacted locations. Then Elon might be tangentially briefed on some aspects of that program. But no, unless he has a need to know, there will be no read into those programs. just it's just nonsense yeah i mean he's launching all those freaking rockets and satellites into space you'd imagine that he's got some sort of peripheral knowledge of something even if he does even if he hasn't been read in right like he's surrounded by these people and he's surrounded by that guy tim him who was in the book who you know who's like super esoteric and all this stuff and super into all this stuff visited chris bledsoe and all these people and if that guy's working for him and

talking to him. Like, how is it possible that he's not has serious conversations about it, whether it be like a full read in or not, you know? I'd wait sure it's probably high probability. He's read in on a UFO reality, right? I mean, it seems like, like, here's the thing. It's very suspicious that he just writes it off. Yeah. And dismisses it like that. Or it jokes about it saying, oh, I'm an alien. Something like that. Yeah. Our good mutual friend, Jesse Michaels, was just on Joe Rogan. And they, Joe and Jesse both said, no, I, I, I, I, I think Elon's BS and a little bit about that. Because it's the world of special access program, controlled access program, special access required use apps.

And that stuff gets into some real, real, real strict access. I mean, the Wilson Davis memo is a perfect example. This talks, this recounts a conversation between Admiral Thomas Wilson and Eric Davis in 2002 in the parking lot of EGNG and Nevada. And this harkens back to 1997 where Stephen Greer, Brigitteur, Brigitteur General Stephen Lovekin, Commander Will, Miller of the U.S. Navy and astronaut Edgar Mitchell engaged in briefings with Admiral Thomas Wilson, which actually did happen. Like this, even Wilson agrees that this happened, even though he disputes the memo, that they briefed Wilson into the reality of UFO special access programs. And Wilson went, according to the documents, according to the Wilson Davis memo, Wilson went on a big hunt to try to

find these special access programs that were working on UFOs. And what he found was that these programs were gate-capped by the special access program oversight committee senior review group. And this was set up in 1993, 1994 after a near audit almost exposed some of these programs. But what's really interesting about that is one of the contractors that I, I think, are up to their eyeballs in UFO legacy program operations is North of Grumman, creator of the B2,

creator of the B-21 Spirit Bomber. They in 2003 absorbed a company called TRW. TRW, the great Richard Dolan theorizes TRW as the contractor behind Zodiac, which was possibly a Romana Clay, a fictional story posted by pseudonym Sege Masters about a UFO crash retrieval team. TRW also bought up BDM. BDM is, of course, a company that U.S. Army General of Innscom,

Albert Stubblebine, who's really interesting as well, went on to go work for in 1985. But TRW in 1993, or in 1994, right around the time Sapphawk was reorganized to structure the senior review group to gate keep legacy programs was sued for a hundred or owed the US government $11 million for or overcharging on space programs. And so one can't help but to think that this, there might be connections here because North

of Grumman purchases TRW in 2002, 2003 and immediately pays off that lawsuit for them, which is really interesting. And also there's some general accounting office documents in 1993 that talk about the Navy and the Air Force specifically not complying with SAP regulations. They talk about the Army complying with SAP regulations. And that's really interesting because as far as I know from just people I've talked to and conversations I've had, the Army participates in a lot of research development, test and evaluation of non-human technology, but does it in a very streamlined fashion with contracts, with generals overseeing it and so forth.

Hmm. And it's not super classified, you're saying? No, it's very classified. But it has probably more oversight than something like neuro, something like Air Force, something like Ed, if he's really testing reverse engineered triangles out there at Edwards Air Force Base. Right, right. Yeah. Another thing we, I think we glossed over in the beginning, which I just remembered, was during Jonathan, when Jonathan was sent out to go see that crash, that craft in Peru. Wasn't there reports of something flying in and out of the atmosphere, like at super high speeds?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's really interesting because Jonathan said he heard Air Force personnel talking about craft entering and exiting Earth's atmosphere at like Mach 10 plus. Yeah. But that's also, there's really intriguing connections there because we also talked about the DSP, the defense support program working with Nest later in 1997 to monitor Russian space debris over South America and Peru. Well, you remember WikiLeaks, right? Yeah. So in WikiLeaks, there was Hillary Clinton campaign manager, or John Podesta. Oh, yeah. And John Podesta had email exchanges with former DOD contractor Bob Fish.

Yes. And in these contractors, Bob Fish is talking about how the DSP was one of the high profile programs that track UFOs. And there's old, old stories, I think this is in the 80s of DSP satellites, monitoring UFOs that pass within a mile and a half at 22,000 miles per hour of the satellite. So were these USAF percent? know working with the DSP and were they specifically tracking UFOs was there some part of laser strike that knew there was UFO activity in tracking this stuff.

I mean, 22,000 miles per hour is absolutely bananas. Yeah, especially in like the 90s. Yeah. And especially making what seems to be intelligent maneuvers. Because this, who knows if that's the case. But all Weigant knows is that he was, he and the other grunts were just kind of set out, set out to, uncover what seemed to be a crashed friendly or foreign aircraft. And it wasn't a secret mission.

It was just, hey, go secure this LZ, something on a radar crashed. Go see what it was. It wasn't a UFO mission. It wasn't a secret thing. I think the biggest question of that whole operation is who were these guys in black camis and black fatigues that held Jonathan at gunpoint? Are these crash retrieval operators? Are they like a rapid reaction unit?

because if you look at a couple years from a couple years from jonathan's encounter in 1997 the CIA director of science and technology deputy director carolp wolf began what's called the CIA's office of global access the office of global access been accused by myself by great reporters like chris sharp at the liberation times who's incredibly brilliant of running foreign crash retrieval programs and working with a joe sock joint special operations command so one must ask was this an element of J-Soc retrieval teams. Of course, before he went public, Jake Barber, under a pseudonym wrote the Sentinels of Ether, a little manuscript where he talked about kind of blue-on-blue retrieval team action and a J-Soc unit firing upon U.S. forces that were interested in, you know, craft retrieval and working in UFO programs. So what are these special operators? It's a really interesting question because there's tons of testimony of dedicated rapid

reaction units. Or are these local special forces guy, like I hypothesizing that Jonathan V. video of local US Army 7th Special Forces Green Berets just plugged in and said, hey, you got to go recover this. These guys are pretty severe, you know, pretty highly trained guys. So are they just pulled in on happenstance or are these dedicated teams brought in? The, what was the guy's name again? Jonathan. No, no, the other guy.

This guy who we went on Jesse, he talked about the psionic stuff. Oh, Jake Barber. Jake Barber. Yeah, the Jake Barber stuff was apparently corroborated with the Michael Herrera stuff because he like, he was, is it true that like he was going in to try to like, uh, red team, red, whatever fucking red team. I hate that word. Um, he was basically trying to like catch these whistleblowers and like prosecute him for like leaking classified information. And then he saw Michael Herrera talk. And then he was basically like, oh my God, I was a part of this. Yeah. And that's when he allegedly decided to like join the other side and

like blow the whistle himself. Yeah. I'm so glad that happened. I remember when Jake Barber did the extended video with Ross and mentioned Michael because for over a year at that point, I had been sworn to secrecy from Michael, not talking about his quote unquote insider. Because Michael put a, Michael had, you know, kept me, giving me the skinny about what had been going on for a long time, including where he was taken by Jake Barber. So he's on new stuff like personally. Range, yeah. And I knew, I knew Jake Barber by a different name at this point. But yes, it is true that Jake Barber was tasked to infiltrate Greer's camp and kind of try and

maybe set up whistleblowers. I don't know. I think the question needs to be asked. Did Greer know this? Was Jake sent in to promise him high level information? And did Greer know about this and willingly let Barber in knowing that he was an agent for possibly an agency? Because around the same time, 2023, there are multiple Greer whistleblowers who I have found in Greer's DPI archive, his

disclosure project initiative archive. And I formed friendship and relationships with that contacted Greer and always in 2023. they started facing reprisals. They started getting threats to their pension. There's one guy in Greer's archive under the number 10892. This guy talks about being on an alien reproduction vehicle retrieval team at Nellis Air Force Base and kind of witnessing the touchdown of a sunflower extraterrestrial craft that he caught off contact with Greer because he was threatened with inappropriate, you know, explicit underage content. Oh my God.

Yeah. And so this stuff all happened around started really ramping up around 2020. And so did, you know, is, is there a connection there? One must ask. It's, it's quite perplexing. It really is, man. But also, who knows? Greer's operational security is absolutely abhorrent.

So there's no excuse that I should be able to go into his archives and be able to track down some of the whistleblowers. No excuse. Right. The operational security is so bad. I should not be able to do that. But I'm just glad that it was me who was able to do. to do that with some people and not, you know, somebody else unless agency folks have done that and kind of tracked down whistleblowers and threatened them with their pension.

Because some of these high-level whistleblowers have spoken to Greer in the past because he's really was the only guy to turn to for a long time, right? He ran the disclosure project of 2000. I mean, a lot of people, everybody fucking hates Greer for the most part. I've never heard anyone to say anything nice about him except for Jesse Michaels. Jesse Michaels is the one person who's like, bro, you got to give him credit. He's been doing this forever. he's brought forward the most amount of whistleblowers that have divulged the most amount of information.

So like, you know, take it for what it's worth. He's he's done more harm than good. Or I'm sorry, more good than harm. I don't have a, I've never spoken to Greer. I don't plan to. He and I don't have a good relationship. He called me an intelligence asset. So I'm not too.

And he's also hurt many of my friends. So I'm not too high up on Greer. I think that he kind of has his own vested interest in a lot of the testimonies he receives. I think he treats whistleblowers that comes. to him, like his whistleblowers. And so their own autonomous people that should be directed to, you know, people like David Grush, to disclose to or Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. So I think it's very complicated. But I personally, I'm not a huge fan.

I don't really like being called an intelligence asset or him or my friends. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full of. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice.

Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton.

Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton's seat. sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. Yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely some personality quirks there. But what I would like to see is, you know how he always calls out Lou Elizondo? Yes, he's got this crazy, there's this crazy dynamic between him and Lou Alizondo, and I'd love to hear what you're thinking about that.

I don't I don't I would rather err on the side of like pushing for disclosure instead of like trying to get into like interpersonal problems and so forth especially a character like Lou who is surrounded by a lot of controversy yeah I I do think and all I'll say is I think more questions seem to be asked in documents foyer about his time at CFA in the early 2000s the counterintelligence field activity oh yeah I on a pedestal of like high level whistleblowers I put David Grush and then and then you know others but I don't like to engage in the drama but I would like to see a debate between those two Greer and Elizondo that would be really fantastic and

interesting to see because Greer always calls Elizondo a asset basically a disinformation asset well don't they have the same lawyer isn't Danny Sheehan represent both of them yeah sheehan used to work for the disclosure project I don't know if he still does a lot of people used to work for the disclosure project Leslie Kane You know, the article of the 2017 New York Times article, she used to work for Stephen Greer back in the early 2000s. And I talked to her at the, I snuck my way in back in November by the UFO hearings into the disclosure fund event. And I talked to her a long time. She's brilliant.

Leslie? Yeah. She knows quite a bit. But, you know, she even used to work with Greer. And I think back in the day, Greer had a little bit of a different mindset. I think maybe some of the problems with him arose more in the future. but that that that drama between the two is is pretty interesting yeah man the when you start to paying too much attention to like the the personalities and like the the UFO celebrities and the

drama you start to get like lost in this whole thing and I think it's probably intentional and the combination of like Twitter people on Twitter you know arguing about who's right and who's wrong and then you mix in the fact that everyone's trying to sell a book or or a documentary or a movie and they're building their careers on this stuff. You know, I'm not innocent of it. I do podcasts. I make money on podcasts about UFOs.

So I try not to make it my whole personality and my whole identity as much as I possibly can. But, you know, there's just so much fucking bullshit to go through, bro. And especially official nonsense, like Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of arrow, who is fraught with a lot of really weird past. So you're familiar with Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick of Arrow, right? Well, Sean Kirkpatrick has a very checkered past before Arrow and pretty interesting future after Arrow.

So Sean Kirkpatrick gets a hold of Arrow in like 2022. Arrow reports to the Undersecretary for Defense for Intelligence and Security. This at the time is Ronald Maltry, who was both on the board for Battelle Memorial Institute. Oh, yeah. I want to talk about them. Oh, absolutely. The MITR Corporation and like a group called the Better Angels, which is funded by the Carlisle Group, which is a huge big money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Kirkpatrick and Moultry famously in 2022 kind of debunk the subject of UFOs and so forth.

Kirkpatrick used to be a senior research scientist for SAIC, science applications international corporation, even published with them quite a few times. In 2022, Arrow engaged in contracts under the DoD for Aerosupport services with a company called Sandcorp. Sandcorp, one directive is to stop whistleblower leaks. Oh, wow. And I recently tweeted about this. I have the exact contract number, but Arrow is tweeting is getting in contracts with companies that specialize in whistleblower leaks. But I want to focus on what Sean Kirkpatrick did after Arrow. You know, he leaves Arrow in a tiradeo.

Nobody likes me, all that. Really whiny. And then he goes on to work at Oak Ridge, which is a Department of Energy, FFRDC, federally funded research and development center. That's where he works now? No, not now. Okay. But we can talk more about FFRDCs because. is when people talk about UFO legacy programs, like joint United States government contractor,

like Air Force and North Grumman UFO programs, the missing link there is the FFRDCs. This is stuff like the Miter Corporation, the Aerospace Corporation, try a national security run by Battelle. Oak Ridge, Sandia National Labs, Lawrence Livermore. But yeah, so Kirkpatrick goes to work at Oak Ridge. He also joins Georgia Tech's. Let me see what it's called, because I wrote this down. I can't remember, but he went on as a joint as a. Georgia Tech Research Institute, UARC, a university-affiliated research center as basically a senior

consultant, a senior research consultant. A UARC, a university-affiliated research center is the, it is the university counterpart to the FFRDCs, the federally funded research and development centers. What these two institutions are are corporate and university systems that are semi-private, but mostly kind of DOD and government-owned. That's why one of my big theories is that a lot of these programs operate with the subject matter experts and R&D wizards being these FFRDCs because they're not fully, it's not like a contractor fully removed from United States government or United States DOD. The FFRDC is a corporation still attached inherently to U.S. government. And we can talk a little bit more about that because there's a lot of interesting ties such as like this gets can harken all the way back to Kexberg and Dr. Eric A. Walker and a lot of that good stuff.

But additionally, since 2025, Sean Kirkpatrick, he had formed his own LLC called Nonlinear Solutions. And as of 2025, nonlinear solutions is contracting for the MITR Corporation for U.S. Spacecom. U.S. Space Command. And what's interesting there is in some FOIA documents by a Twitter user named TAYGOM. In 2023, Kirkpatrick met with senior officials at U.S. spacecom to brief them on UFO response and recovery and material transfer. So, you know, what are the very strange connections there? Arrow stinks to high heaven. They also are, Arrow is also a lion organization.

You know, they published the Arrow Historical Report, Volume 1, nonsensical report. I hope somebody who's read the cleared report, the classified report, can tell us why there's no better explanations than that than the public report, because the cleared report I've heard is just as nonsensical. But there's testimonies that are lied about in there. A very specific example is Michael Herrera. We got Michael Herrera's memorandum for record with Arrow, because in the Arrow history, historical report volume one, it talks about Michael's testimony. It says like a U.S. Marine encountered

an extraterrestrial vehicle in U.S. Special Forces. First of all, Michael never said extraterrestrial vehicle. He always thought this was a man-made vehicle and never said U.S. Special Forces. He just said unidentified special forces. And the memorandum for record, that proves that he never said extraterrestrial or U.S. Special Forces. So if Arrow's lying about details that small to make a whistleblower seem a little bit less credible, what else are they lying about in that? And why are they working with whistleblower protection? And why is Sean Kirkpatrick going on to work at under miter and so forth. These are all questions that must be asked. Is Arrow Honeypot? Why is Tim Phillips, the deputy director of Arrow badmouthing David Grosch on LinkedIn? These are all strange. I talk about

the FFRDCs and UARCs. Remember when we had the November House hearings. The Senate also had some UFO hearings with Arrow at the end of 2024. Dr. John Kozlowski, now Arrow director, said Arrow is now working with FFRDCs and UARCs. What are they doing with them? These are all interesting questions. Yeah, it's interesting to see who doesn't like who and who's saying what about, you know, these other whistleblowers. That's a mess. You know, I mean, it definitely looks good for David Grush that this guy is, you know, saying bad things about him. Oh, yeah. You know, he's not involved with any.

Obviously, that guy is not, you know, if he's making up and they're manipulating Michael Herrera's testimonies to make him seem more discreditable, there's definitely something there. You know, the more of this stuff I hear, it's just like, it seems like, it seems like, it seems like all of this stuff just is all this stuff from from sci-fi movies are becoming reality. Yeah. You know, like the like the Jake Barber stuff sounds exactly like stranger things. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of Star Wars, have you heard of the Mark McCandallis story?

No. And Brad Sorensen. Okay. This is in my opinion one of the greatest alien reproduction vehicle stories of all time. And we can also, I'm sure you've heard the term alien reproduction vehicle. Yes. And I'm sure you've heard it associated with Greer. Yes.

But we can dispel that rumor as well in this story. So this is about November 12th, 1988. This takes place at the Norton Air Force Base show at Norton Air Force Base in California. This is near Edwards Air Force Base. This is near Palm Springs. This is near the Lockheed Skunk Works. This is near USAF Plant 42. You know, a lot of the clandestine aircraft R&D of our nation takes place.

Also a region in which I think is a huge network of underground subterranean facilities. But, you know, we'll talk about that later. But so Aerospace Illustrator Mark McCandelish, who had done a lot of work for popular mechanics, various defense contractors, was scheduled to go to the Air Force show with his good friend Brad Sorensen, who was an industrial designer at the time. Brad Sorensen had been invited to the show from a high profile client. It doesn't really name this person, but connected with DOD somehow, possibly former Undersecretary for Defense, real high up guy. A couple days before the air show, Mark McAndelish has to drop out. He needs to do some work for popular mechanics. And so Brad goes with, you know, the undersec, if that's what it is.

A week later, Mark finally hears from Brad. Brad sounds really, like, beaten up and shaken. Brad sounds really, really, really upset. And Mark finally prized what Brad saw at the air show. And we'll pause there because historically, this story has been relayed secondhand for Mark McAndelish, right? Mark McAndelish talks about what Brad sees at the air show. It wasn't until this year. I found a 1990 interview taken to, took place two years after this experience with Brad Sorensen and Aviation Week and Space Technology writer Bill Scott.

So this is no longer a secondhand testimony relayed by Mark McCandlish, right? This is something that from Brad Sorensen's own words, because I'm directly referencing that interview. Because that's some of the things people have said about this story in particular, the flux liner, is that no. Mark McCandlish just said it, no. Well, Brad Sorensen talked about it in this interview. and some of the details around that are really interesting. So Brad Sorensen went to the Norton Air Show. Tons of interesting aircraft are pretty cool.

But at some point during the show, the undersec D.F or whoever he was with took him to a classified exhibit. This is either a short flight down to Yousaf Plant 42, or it's in a completely different hangar. And the only reason he gets in is because he's attached to this very high-level former DOD guy. The two enter the hangar. And remember, this is all according to Brad Sorensen. In there, there's a lot of really interesting vehicles.

There's like a V-Tol, vertical takeoff and landing little Marines vehicle. There's the losing prototype to the B2, yeah, B-2 stealth bomber. There's something called the Lockheed Pulsar, which is a craft that looks like a pumpkin seed, craft that is, I think, powered by, if I'm remembering correctly, scramjet technology, super fast, remotely controlled. It contains 121 nuclear warheads. What? Yeah, that some of the military brass were kind of boasting that they could destroy every major city

in Russia in under an hour and so forth. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the Polsar. And that's drawn by Mark McCandlish. That's drawn by Mark. That's wild, bro. Have you seen the Cormorant, the Lockheed Cormorant? Uh-uh.

What is that? I think Jeremy Riss told me about this. Oh, alien scientist. Yeah. Smart cookie. Yeah, man. He knows his stuff. He, uh, type in Lockheed Cormoron.

That one's crazy looking. Whoa. That thing. Whoa. I think the, I mean, these are all obvious. That one's actually a real photo. Is this a under. C, U-A-V? Yeah, bro. Look at that. Look at that thing. It looks like a bird. Of course, the Lockheed Martin stamp on it iconic. Yeah, right. That thing's crazy. There's just so much bizarre stuff. I know. These people are making. But apparently this thing can go in the water and in the air. There's a Northrop. Oh, it's transmedium. Yeah, bro. It flies and it goes under the water. Allegedly. Who knows? That is a creepy looking vehicle. It looks like a almost like a, it's a, almost like a,

a bird, but also a little sci-fi, high-techie. Yeah, like the more I see this stuff, bro, it just seems like there's a human explanation for so many of this UFO, so much of this UFO stuff. I think so, yeah. I had this guy, David Morehouse on a couple of times, and he worked in the Stargate program. Oh, cool.

Yeah, and he, uh, he was, he came in here with like a whole, uh, presentation of classified military aircraft and reconnaissance balloons. and all kinds of things that explain, he basically explained away most of like the most famous UFO sightings ever. Really? Including the Phoenix lights. He showed us like images of these giant balloons

that have lights built in them. And they're like reconnaissance balloons or something like this. And it was the exact shape of the Phoenix lights flying the same exact size, just giant black like tube balloons. Whoa. Yeah. I agree with you that a lot of what's seen

is pretty mundane, prosaic explanation. or classified military tech that a lot of it, regarding on the, how anomalous it is, how anomalous the sighting is, is probably some reverse engineered stuff. Because, so Brad Sorensen sees the Lockheed Pulsar, which seems like the same crazy technology as that Lockheed Cormorant. And then he's brought to the final section of the exhibit where there are three flying saucers station hovering off the ground, right? These look like a jello mold with half a dome on top.

Steve, would you look up flux liner? Two words. These things are called Little Bear, Mama Bear, and Papa Bear. Because they're the same craft scaled. One's about 60 feet in length to the largest, about 120 feet in length. This? Yeah. Yeah.

You've probably seen that image before, right? I've seen the drawing before. Yeah, I've seen that. That is the flux liner. So there's like a three-star general and contracting personnel there that are showing a videotape of I think it's the smallest flux liner, kind of balancing jaggedly over like a desert surface before taking off at rapid speeds, just straight up. So this thing to Brad Sorensen, and Brad Sorensen hated this design because he talks nonstop in his interview that it looks

like it was made by scientists, not by engineers. It looked slobbled together. You know, there was chipped paint on it. Those little bubbles on the outside were synthetic vision systems. They're little their camera arrays that to kind of create a 3D picture of where the craft going. Yeah. Seats are F4 Phantom jump seats. So this craft was like jerry rigged. That little ball handle right there. It's really interesting in Tom DeLong's book, I can't, names escape me right now.

Secret Machines. He talks about that same control system right there is used to control like the TR3B like reverse engineered triangle. But so these, these craft are powered. I don't really understand. physics, but by like some anti-gravity capacitor array and so forth. And the skinny that Brad Swerson is given is that these craft were created from technology copied found at Roswell. And that I think the brass were saying that, you know, we were never supposed to have these

craft. We took it from the beans. We've tried to recreate how it works. This is the best we can get it. It's basically a poor man's representation. This craft has cameras. slapped on the outside and like acrylic bubbles you'd find at a Walmart. It has jump seats from a jet. It has a Navy submarine door on the outside. Right. But we have tried to reverse engineering the propulsion systems of these craft as well as possible. And these, according to Brad Sorenson, according to what he saw, these were copy vehicles taken from non-human intelligence at Roswell.

What year was this year? 1988. 1988. But what's interesting here is that this craft right here, Steve, can you look up a 1960s? Harvey Williams. In 1967, USAF captain, Air Force Captain Harvey Williams,

about 12,000 to 20,000 feet over Provo, Utah, captured an image of a flying saucer that looks exactly like one of these. But it looks like an evolution of the flux liner because it has larger acrylic bubbles. And as time passes, you'd think camera technology size would decrease and you can kind of rethink the acrylic bubbles. But this is the story of the flux. liner and Mark McCandlish would draw what Brad told him because Brad didn't want anything to do with this story. So Mark McIndelish would draw this. He would take this around. He would present an at Greer's

Disclosure Project. He would talk, uh, yes, that's the first image right there, 1966, Provo, Utah. Okay. Right there. That's taken by Yousaf Captain. If it's not Harvey Williams, I'm butchering this badly. There's a much higher definition. Yeah, that looks like it. Same shape. Yeah. So Mark McCandlish would, would, you know, create a line art drawing of this. And he would take it all around, talk to people. And apparently he met other people like Yousaf veteran Kent Sellen, who saw the same craft at Edwards Air Force Base. And I think, 1972, I want to say. I'm trying to remember correctly.

But Mark McCandlish would eventually in 2014 create a documentary with a filmmaker named James Allen about zero point energy systems, the flux liner alien reproduction vehicles. About less than three months before the interview is to be, before the documentary is to be released, James Allen gets struck with a very rare and aggressive. the form of cancer and dies within three months. And Mark McAndelish ordered an autopsy report on him. So did the editor of the documentary that I've talked to. And James Allen was found to have heavy metal poisoning in his autopsy report. So it's weird because in this documentary, the two James Allen and Mark McAndelish talk all about, you know, various energy systems, various zero point energy systems where the

inventors have mysteriously died, gone missing, throw themselves out of a window. And so James Allen, right before that documentary is released, goes, you know, he dies as well. I'm in 2020, Mark McAndlish was found with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. What? And he said, maybe it was 2022, but he said that an interview shortly before in 2020 that he slept with a pillow under his pillow because he was also afraid of what was going to happen to him. A pillow under his pillow? I'm sorry, a pistol under his pillow.

Yeah, I'm sorry. And, you know, there's some rumors according to some. close sources of Mark McCandlish that he was going to testify to Senator Rubio shortly before his death. So, but this also gets really interesting because this was relayed by Mark McAndalish for the better part of 30 years, right? I found the original interview with Brad Sorensen and Bill Scott from Aviation Week in Space Technology. Once I find that and put up a video of the flux liner, I get a call from a UFO researcher, very well-known guy, very respected, great on crash retrieval, but he's also really close with Greer, like really good buddies with Greer. And he's a really good buddies with Greer.

And he calls me and said, where did you find that interview? Like, that's not supposed to be public. You should take that down. Why isn't that supposed to be public? Because this story was always secondhand with Mark McCandlish and not Brad Sorenson. And what's weir's close friends is a researcher. And why did he tell you it should be taken down? He said it's internal.

Internal for who? Exactly. Why? Because I messaged Brad Sorensen. I emailed. Right. And the amount of death threats that man gave me is unlimited. What man?

Brad Sorensen. Oh, really? Say goodbye to you and your family. You'll never see it coming. Mark was a stupid, dramatic fool. You're going to end up the same way he did. And then I kept pushing. Because there was some little inkling that I thought maybe there's more than meets the eye to Brad here.

And so Brad kind of gave me a little bit of the implication. He may have actually worked on such a craft saying stuff like I helped create what I saw and stuff like that. It's an incredibly intriguing case, the flux liner. incredibly intriguing. And that's just one instance of an alien reproduction vehicle. There's another really interesting thing. Like everybody thinks about the TR3B triangle, right? Like the famous triangle from Edgar Foucher.

It's got the four lights on the bottom, the big red light, and then three lights on the kind of the exterior of the triangle. I think I know what you're talking about. So see if you can find the picture of it, Steve, just to make sure. There's a forensic artist named Bill McDonald. He worked with, yeah, just like the classic triangle, the Salpais patents. Bill McDonald worked with Ryan and Dr. Robert Wood of McDonnell Douglas,

who are some great investigators into the Majestic 12 documents. And so we created all sorts of art and all sorts of UFO art, worked with various films to create craft and so forth. In 1992, in Antelope Valley, California, kind of the aerospace hub of the United States. He met with two Lockheed and two Northrop engineers. And these guys worked at the Lockheed Martin Hellendale, radar cross-section facility

and the Northrop Tejahn radar cross-section facilities. Now, these two places are very infamous in UFO lore. And these engineers came together, two from Lockheed, two from Northrop, to illustrate the reverse engineered craft they had been working on that they are so tired of the secrecy around. So Bill McDonald, of course, drew that craft.

It's really interesting. Steve, can you look up a Tahatia-C-H-A-T-H-A-P-I triangle? and that, you know, I've pressed Bill McDonald for the sources on this subject as well for this triangular craft. And he won't give them up. That's it. Yeah, first one right there. But what's interesting here is, are you a fan of the X-Files? Yes. Okay. So, season one, episode one of the X-Files, not the pilot, but it's the episode called Deep Throat. It's about Mulder. He goes to Air Force Base and to investigate a test pilot that's gone missing and encounters this craft. Chris Carter and John DeSouza, the FBI agent on which the first season of The X-Files was based, went up to Bill McDonald and contracted him to use that design for the X-Files episode,

which I found really interesting. That is really interesting. So I'd like to press more into that because that's another possible example of alien reproduction vehicle. You know, there's the triangles. There's the saucers, possibly what Michael Herrera saw, just a ton, ton of possible. There's so much overlap in movie and television in real life, bro. It's crazy. It's like in a close encounters of the third time, third kind.

There's large crates and boxes of materials from TRW and Lockheed Martin that Steven Spielberg put in there. How interesting is that? Didn't he also use the same hand scanner that Bob Lazar talked about? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's really, really intriguing. And I think, oh gosh, who was it? Who was it recently? Steven Spielberg even said that he showed like ET to some high military officials who kind of commented how ET and like the subject of extraterrestrials was really

closely related to his film and so forth. Really intriguing. Steven Spielberg seems to be pretty tapped in. He's working on another kind of UFO film lately. Yeah, I heard about that. I don't know exactly what it was about, though. It's been a while since I heard about it. Yeah, bro.

So the Jake Barber stuff, like the psionic stuff, what do you make of all that? It's so, it's so interesting. But I was kind of of the mind that before you introduce subjects like psionics, which requires a lot of understanding and faith into like remote viewing, sci research, which, you know, the Stargate program and SAIC did a heck of a lot into. But I think before that was introduced, there needs to be a more firm understanding of crash retrieval and reverse engineering.

Okay. Because the Jake Barber psionics at the range, the whole MO was to use psionics to bring in these craft and either force them to land or use some directed energy weapons to blast right the sky right sounds totally ridiculous yes before you ask an uninitiated viewer to believe that you got to first say hey there are UFOs here they're not piloted by humans sometimes they crash sometimes they're shot down and we retrieve them but the the subject of i would still be pretty keen to see a demonstration of psionics i've i've never seen it so it's still it's still a little bit tough for me to wrap my head around what do you think no i don't know i i had never heard about it

before the Jake Barber stuff. But it does like the fact, like what Michael Herrera and Jake Barber were talking about with allegedly going to this earthquake disaster zone. Yeah. And trying to capture like kids with like left-handed kids. And first of all, they're from like this remote part of the world. They're not really connected to technology. And they're young.

So like there's definitely something to be said. Like we were talking about on the phone yesterday. I think I was telling you like children, I seem to be more. tapped into this like an extra invisible sense. Yeah. That we lose as we grow up, you know, similar to like cats and dogs can like, can sense different energies, you know, in the room. It's, uh, it's similar to like Joe Rogan's fart hypothesis.

Have you heard that? No. Like, basically like if somebody, if somebody farts and you didn't have the sense of smell or a nose, you just be sitting in their fart and you would have absolutely no idea. Yeah. So how many other things exist all around us that we don't have the senses to detect? Right. You know?

Right. And, you know, the sub. object of psionics is nothing new. You can look back to the claims of Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso, who of course, he's infamous for the book The Day After Roswell, which has a bunch of added nonsense from co-writer Bill Burns. If you want to actually understand Corso's story, you should read his manuscript the day after Roswell. But he even talks about some of the technologies leveraged and utilized from the Roswell craft specifically was systems to try and control ICBM missiles with brainwaves.

So all the way back with Corso in 1960 to 1962, he, you know, if what he's talking about under the Foreign Technology Division is legit, there were already plans to try and adapt, you know, mind control, mind machine interfaces. Really interesting. It's it's perplexing that he says that because, of course, psionics. Did he expand on that at all? No, it's a short section. And I'll send it to you. I think I told you and I forgot to do it. He just talked about trying to use brainwaves.

Brain waves. Brain waves to control ICBMs. And if you look at the old files of Leonard Stringfield, he talks multiple times about headband transceivers being found in crashed UFOs that control the craft. So it's nothing new. I just think that a lot of the time with like you really got to slow down and demonstrate the capabilities of this first. Because I know with Skywatchers, there's still gray area about what they're summoning, right? Like each YouTube video creates a lot of discourse of, you know, the pinpricks of light.

Are they birds? Are they balloons or are they extraterrestrial or not human craft? I think a very firm demonstration needs to be made. And then you can kind of bring in some of the baggage with that because psionics is a really interesting topic with a lot of baggage because I know, I think it was Greer that talked about like left-handed and gay people. Yeah, left-handed and gay people. Right. Young. Yeah, young as well. Kids from the gate programs, the gifted and talented education programs. And I would like to.

And allegedly they were kept at the spot and like, they were held there and fed a specific diet. Yeah. And like given certain medications, something like this. Yeah. One of the Skywatchers top psionic guys is a guy named, I can't remember his name. It's escaped me right now. But he told me he was in the gate program as a child.

And now he's a Skywalker's Sionic. What's interesting about his case is he said while he was in the gate program, one time as a young kid, a bunch of egg heads and lab coats, brought in a briefcase and opened it up. And it was like a metallic swirling sphere in there, almost like a palantier and told to just kind of look into it and react to it. The description of that sphere is almost identical to a witness that Jesse and I both covered Randy Anderson, who was a former U.S. Army Green Beret who 2013 to 2015 was at the Naval Surface Warfare Center crane in Indiana, a really austere weapons facility.

And he was taken on the ground by a contractor because he was one of two guys in the Green Beret unit with high clearance levels for a weapon string. of this interview. Yeah, and he was shown something called the off-world technologies division and a piece of technology that was, by all intents and purposes, a identical sphere to what this Skywatcher asset described that reacted to human consciousness. There's so much crazy stuff, dude. It's almost impossible to track it all. And like, again, when you have people like that Jake guy coming out and like talking about this psionic stuff and like, it always is fishy to me when people talk in these absolutisms and terms as if like they know exactly what's happening, you know? Yeah. And, uh, and, and I don't know, it's, it's almost like,

it's just so difficult to navigate this stuff that it's like, you know, I like to check out every once in a while and just be like, zoom out on all this stuff. Take a breath. Take a breather. And then, you know, see where it goes. See where it goes. Because it's, it's, uh, it's overbearing, man. It's so much to, to handle and digest. I don't blame you. Because there's, there's so much discourse, there's so much infighting, there's so much interfactionality, like, there's probably disclosure advocates with varying interests and how disclosure plays out.

You know, maybe there's a difference in what, like, Lou Elizondo wants versus what Eric Davis wants at the end of the day for disclosure and how these things are brought about. What does the Navy do? What does the Air Force do? What does the Army do in terms of UFO, crash retrieval reverse engineering? How silo are the programs? Is the Navy working on an ARV and the Army working on an ARV, both the same program, but have no cross communication. What role does the, do the intelligence agencies play? How does the neuro hop in? How does the NSA hop in?

How do these programs work? How are they funded? That's a big, that's a really interesting question as well, that I think there's a lot of funding mechanisms for such programs. Like back in the 80s, the Navy was being overcharged by the Grumman Corporation and some other corporations. They were being charged like $400 to $600 for ashtrays at like F-14. And so there's just ashtrays and F-14s. Yeah, ashtrays and F-14s. And that brings me back to that guy I told you about Ed at Edwards Air Force Base. After he was done at Edwards, he went on to work at the Pentagon for the Air Force Research Development, Test and Evaluation Panel chain.

He said in two separate years, $34 billion and then $40 billion went missing from the Air Force and non-transfer of authority funds, just completely wiped off the books. You know, I've also been privy to conversations with individuals who have seen cash transactions. huge pallets of cash transacted for UFO legacy programs. And then, of course, you have Catherine Austin Fitz who talks about really creative funding from the DOD and housing and urban development. And then you got a great story from SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation. And I'd love to tell you a really, really intriguing story about SAIC's kind of contract work, if you don't mind. Oh, yeah. So SAIC, first of all, has been in some hot water.

for overcharging like the NSA, like $5 to $7 billion for the Trailblazer program, which was supposed to be like a large-scale spying software right after 9-11 that was completely didn't work. But the NSA kind of was fraud, was fraudulently charged by SAIC for all of this money. SAIC has enormous contracts, many of which don't make any sense, like a recent $280 million contract with Sandia National Labs. which is a Department of Energy FFRDC for IT consolidation work. How does IT work, you know, take $280 million?

Of course, with SAIC, we've talked about Kirkpatrick. SAIC has insane ties to the Wilson Davis memo. SAIC has ties to director of Nero, Bobby Ray Enman. But in 1992, so there's a whistleblower from SAIC. Her name's Denise McKinsey. And she actually disclosed in, I think, 2000. And so her story goes in 1992, she was working at a fabric store at a mall in La Jolla, San Diego. A new part-time girl named Sophia starts working with her.

Sophia says, hey, come work for this contractor. You know, it better work. Yeah. And so she shows up expecting an interview at a large contractor. She's hired on the spot at a massive campus, that is, SAIC, science applications, international corporation, La Jolla. She's not even really told what to do besides administrative work on a computer. And that girl who recruited her, Sophia didn't show up for like.

another three or four weeks. So she's just sitting there and having no idea what to do on the job. And eventually a bunch of letters come in while she's working at SAIC that are basically asking for contract updates on DOD and other contractor contracts. These are massive contracts. Some in hundreds of a million dollars, some millions of dollars, some tens of millions of dollars. And she's working in the building where SAIC does all sorts of classified chemical and biological research. Really interesting biochem facility there that probably connects with Patel Memorial Institute and Dougway, proving ground. And so she goes to her superiors because she wants to kind of impress them and says, what, you know, what do I, what do I do with these contracts? The superior says, I think the

superior right here is named Stanley Stewart that I've actually tried to track down, said, oh, just say we're working on it. So she being a new employee doesn't really want to just say, we're working on it on massive DOD contracts. So she goes in the file room to find these contract numbers, to find the contracts, to find the programs. And in each file for every single, single program, all that's in there is just a paper that says, we're working on it. The same file updates. So the SAIC is undergoing enormous contracts for DOD and other contractors with no movement on them. Nothing's being done.

No progress reports. No technical reports. Nothing like that. So they're just empty contracts. That money can be funneled like Catherine Austin Fitz says, specifically mentioning SAIC into the black budget. So she goes and tell Sophia, the woman that recruited her eventually. And Sophia freaks out. She gets reprimanded by her superiors.

All the files are taken away. She's harassed by one of the bosses. And she eventually quits when she almost chokes on some food and like nobody helps her. But so later on down the line, she's interested to search for Sophia because she never saw Sophia again. In the early days of the internet, she finds Sophia's picture, same first name, different last name, on a CIA operatives database. But the weird thing is that this Sophia girl that recruited her to work at SAIC, remember, this took place, 1992 apparently died in 1998. All sorts of weird things going on there with SAC.

In 1992 is also when SAC took all took over the Stargate program from SRI and the CIA. SAC took over that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. SAC, huge, huge into like telepathy, telekinesis. They have lots of reports on it using human subjects for such things. And I guess the research was carried on and taken seriously because as recently as 2013, the Office of Naval Research published a study. like a revolutionary study on human six cents using like precognition in humans almost to

to kind of get a jump on things so really really weird discussion of contracts and and like human remote viewing at say i see yeah they're involved in so much weird shit man i told you the first time i heard about it when i was reading the article all about the creation of google yeah how basically google was incubated by like darpa yeah and the cia and all this stuff basically going and visiting sergay brin at stanford and you know why doing like status updates every month on what they were doing and how they were doing. I think they got the page rank system directly from DARPA. Yeah.

Which is strange. But, you know, if you just understand that history of how it was, how Google was created and who they were working with and look at where we're at now with all the stuff that's going on, you know, how they're basically trying to like influence the narrative of the public and censor certain speech and boost other speech and using, you know, Now, you know, Google basically creates everything from phones to security systems to every application and appliance soon. They're going to be making your fucking washer and dryer, you know, that, and it's going to

fucking talk to you, have cameras in it. So it's just like, okay. This company that was created by like the deep state essentially is now creating all these appliances and software that are integrated into virtually every aspect of your life. and you know you rely and and most people a lot of people rely on this company to make a living because they basically own the internet yeah you know that's just i don't know where that goes man but i can't imagine it's anywhere good it's a it's a terrifying reality especially when companies like google when companies like s a i see that basically helped create the internet can work hand in hand

yeah can influence such extreme thought narratives i mean s ic themselves they were they chaired the the panel that testified to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and thus the United States needed to invade Iraq. And when no weapons of mass destruction were found, they chaired the same panel that said, we investigated ourselves and we did nothing wrong, absolving the government, the intelligence agencies and SAIC of any involvement. So they can really influence public perception in a massive way, even like DUD, high level perception and kind of government perception. Yeah, man. It's crazy. But like, Going back to what we were discussing, we were discussing, like, you know, some of these private contractors.

We talked a lot about, like, the DOE, which is interesting because, you know, Annie Jacobson lays it out really well in her first book, Area 51 and her most recent book about nuclear war. She talks a lot about the Department of Energy, which, from what I understand is, you might know more about this than I do, but the DOE, the Department of Energy essentially is like the fourth, fifth, or sixth name change. from the Manhattan Project. Yeah. It was the Manhattan Project and they changed the name to something else, atomic energy commission, something else. And now the Manhattan Project is basically it's the same thing as the DOE. It's the same fucking organization.

Yeah. Which is crazy to think about. And that's the same company that puts out regulations of like what types of light bulbs were allowed to use or sell. I mean, the DOE is truly an enormous and amorphous blob. They even have their own like, like, they even have their own armed teams called SART special response team that transfer like nuclear radiological materials across the continental United States. The DOE has their hand in almost every pie. I mean, the DOE is born from the

granddaddy, the Atomic Energy Commission that has just tremendous ties to possible UFO programs, just like we talked about the 1954 Atomic Energy Act that is literally name dropped in the UAPDA and literally said, hey, UFO materials, information, etc., are hidden within restricted data, within trans classified foreign nuclear information under the Atomic Energy Commission. So the DOE just has their hand in so many pies, and the DOE also sponsors so many federally funded research and development centers, like Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Sandia National Labs, Oak Ridge, etc., where, you know, I have some degree of confidence that there are reverse engineering

and retrieval operations being conducted at such locations. And even the DOE, what they were doing in, I think it was the like the 60s or 70s when they were like detonating subterranean nukes and shit like working with these oil companies trying to like basically frack oil using nuclear weapons it's just insane like you said all the all the pies they have their hands in bro whenever you investigate a crash retrieval story or like a craft being housed any testimony you can always do a couple extra steps of research and find out some connection to the DOE it's a it's a very very scary organization And, you know, even in some high profile whistleblower testimony like Edgar Foucher, who talked about the TR3B reverse engineered alien reproduction vehicle, he directly said stuff like the Lawrence Livermore National Labs and Sandia National Labs to DOEFRDCs reverse engineered the propulsion devices for the TR3B.

And what about Battelle? Where does Batel fit in all this stuff? Batel is pretty interesting. So Betel Memorial Institute, I think you and Jesse talked about it. Not only do they have ties to Ronald Moultrie, who was Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, who error reported to. But so I think you guys talked about this, too, Nittnall, Night and all that, you know, shape memory alloys. Battelle was kind of doing some secret projects on that. That wasn't really declassified into the early 60s when Nittal was like accidentally discovered.

Betel Memorial Institute also ran some of me called Project Stork, which was actually a hidden UFO program parallel to Blue Book. You know, Project Blue Book, 1952 to 1969. Why does Patel have their own really secretive UFO program back in the same time as Blue Book? There's also a, I know of an individual that I did a video on. This took place at Dougway Proving Ground at the West Desert Test Center, which is DeGway Proving grounds, major range test facility base, where in the Avery area of Dougway, which is, you know, an Air Force, pretty extensive contractor location. He went into a building while doing contracting work there and saw,

a craft and this craft was hovering off the ground and it was being worked on by by various individuals well the West Desert Test Center which specializes in chemical and biological work if you look at the history of people who have run the West Desert Test Center it's always former Betel guys always butel also runs multiple FFRDCs like the out near Fort Detrick Maryland and that kind of region which has really high profile biological and chemical work that there's some rumors that that that's where some of the bodies of extraterrustials or non-human intelligence are stored Bettell also really smartly, Patel kind of set the playbook by forming something called Triad National Security.

It was Bettell, a university and another organization that formed like their own company to manage some DOE labs for FFRDCs. I'm trying to think which exactly here. But once Bettell did that, then companies like S-AIC started doing that with EG and G. SIAIC started doing that with Northrop. S-AIC started doing that with Amentum, which recently whistleblower Matthew Brown has said operates hangers that hold reverse engineer technology at Pax River. in Virginia. So Battelle has always, at least to me, seems like a, almost like a chemical and biological subject matter expert. There's, there's one of those nickel titanium alloy studies from Battelle that was, you know, I can't remember the date declassified, but it was by

a man named, I, is this the night in all stuff? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I, is it Edward? It's not Howard Cross. It's Edward's something, but it's a name. It's a name that worked on one of the, you know, investigating these alloys. And this same individual, I don't know why his name is slipping for me. I just talked about it with Jesse. But on late in his life in 1992 to Mufon, to Mufon researcher Irene Scott, this guy disclosed to her that he worked on medals that were leveraged from nonhuman intelligence craft that had crashed. So you have your own Battel guy who worked on those reports saying that stuff came from flying saucers, essentially.

Yeah, I remember Jeremy Riss. He went to one of the big hearings, I think it was last year. And he's crazy. He was there in like live streams, like talking to people, pulling people aside. And he was interviewing, I forget who it was. It was one, it was some big wig. It was a woman. And she was like, I think she was like a congresswoman.

And he was asking her about, uh, Patel. And she goes, excuse me what? He goes, Batel Memorial Institute. She's like, how do you, what's, I've never heard of that. And he was like, he was like, okay, it's spelled this. Go to this website. I really need to look into that. Thank you for, I'm going to look into them.

Thank you. It's just like, you know, I don't know. It seems like nobody knows what's going on with all this stuff. Yeah. And how how projects and expertise may be delegated to different contractors. I mean, I think Patel has their hands all over this stuff, as we've seen with the night and all nickel, titanium, alloy studies and project Stork. Batel is just, it's just strange.

I think so if I, if I had to wager, like if I had to say the biggest corporations that have their in this stuff. It would be Battelle. It would be S-AIC. It'd be Northrop Grumman. It would be Lados, which S-A-I-C kind of spun off from in 2013 because S-A-I-C got too big and had too many contracts. It would be Raytheon, Boeing, Booz Allen Hamilton, maybe L-3-L-3-Harris. And yeah, probably some of the biggest. Then FFRD-C is I'd say the Miter Corporation. I have quite a bit of knowledge on the Mider Corporation, the RAND Corporation, the RAND Corporation, the Aerospace Corporation. Here's what's pretty interesting.

The Aerospace Corporation. There's so fucking many of all. All the DOE labs to try a national security, Oak Ridge, the Center for Naval Analysis, Institute for Defense Analysis. And then you got the UARC, Georgia Tech, Pennsylvania State University, which is really, really interesting, which we'll talk about in a second. But the, so the RAND Corporation was built out of USAF Project RAND,

which was kind of involved with underground constructions. But the aerospace corporation, as well as, as the MITER Corporation, as well as BDM, which is a contractor, not an FFRDC, where all started between 1959 and 1960. The exact date that, you know, Philip J. Corso says that, you know, alien technology was starting to be seated into the military and public when that began. So it's just a really interesting lineup of dates. And including Eric Davis said to me, he didn't name drop it specifically, but the aerospace

corporation is the one FFRDC he knew of that engages with this stuff. Hmm. And on the, on the UARC level, the University Affiliated Research Center, you have stuff like the applied physics laboratory. applied research laboratory names escaping me from Penn State University. This was started by Dr. Eric A. Walker. Dr. Eric A. Walker is one of the most underrepresented figures in all of UFO, in my opinion. Back in 1950, I consultant to the Defense Research Science Board or the R&D board, Robert Sarbacher,

I'm forgetting his official title, but brilliant physicist, brilliant guy. Jesse talks about him all the time. He met with a Canadian radio engineer, Wilbert B. Smith, and said some pretty outstanding statements such as flying saucers exist. Their modus operandi is unknown, but efforts to kind of understand them, reverse engineer them are headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush, and the matter isn't top secret to the point it's classified two points higher than the H-bomb. And so this made its way into an official Canadian Department of Transport memo that Wilbert Smith then created two UFO projects for Canada, Project Magnet and Project Second Story. But

UFO researchers like Henry Azad de Hell and William Steinman would interoperate. view Robert Sarbacher and he would name one person that was really intimately involved with UFO or crash retrieval operations, Dr. Eric A. Walker. And so eventually Dr. Eric A. Walker was contacted by the same researchers, William Steinemann and so forth. Dr. Eric A. Walker not only admitted he was at the 1965 Kexburg, Pennsylvania crash, not only admitted that he knew about the Majestic 12, but also said one of the most interesting quotes in all the subject. When asked about how to gain access into these programs. He said something along the lines of what do you know about ESP,

extrasensory perception, unless you know about ESP, you would never be involved in these programs. And this was 1982, he said that. So Eric A. Walker, who started the applied research laboratory, Pennsylvania's U-Arc, is one of the most underrepresented and entwined guys and kind of UFO lore of all time. This guy said he was at the 65 Kexperg crash, which is a great case, too. Yeah.

It seems the ESP remote viewing stuff seems to be like the at the foundation of all of this stuff, man. And it's also like the convenient thing about it is it's the most ridiculous sounding thing of all of it. I'm with you. People can like comprehend or like swallow the idea of anti-gravity or like aircraft that aerospace companies are making. But as soon as you start saying like reading minds or like a sixth sense and controlling shit with your mind, there's like bullshit. Like there's no fucking way, which is super, if it is legit, which it makes it super convenient. Yeah.

And I, you know, I think the, I do think because I've never seen demonstrations of remote viewing or sci or psionics, this stuff work. I, I am of the mind also like many of the skeptics. I think there should be demonstrations of such a thing. I'd like to see demonstrations of remote viewing of psionics and stuff because just like you and just like a lot of the public, that is the hardest part for me to wrap my head around. Yeah. technological craft being shot down by the strategic defense initiative sure that's the there's a lot there to digest and research but stuff like psionics and and the consciousness studies i i need to see to see more to understand it's so foreign to me yeah have you seen that that movie um mirage men yeah about dote yeah it's a really good movie um and it's just like that that that movie really made me like more skeptical than ever about everything you know i don't i don't know how accurate that movie is that and it's just like that that movie is that that that movie is. but it was, you know, it shows you just how much effort that all these companies and agencies

are willing to go through to fuck with people and scramble people's brains and manipulate information and like paint a false narrative. And, you know, that is when I started to look at some of these whistleblowers, you know, like, hmm, is this kind of legit? Who do you look at skeptically? How do I know if I want to trust this guy?

Right. I mean, a lot of them, man. I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm, I mean, grush seems pretty legit. Oh, yeah. But, you know, there's just, there's so many of them. And, you know, some of the guys, like, I think the guy that Jesse interviewed, the, I think was a Marine.

You mentioned him earlier. Michael. Michael. He was the guy who went down into the base and they were, like, brought through all these, these, like, compartments. And they finally got to this area where there was just, like, crazy thing. He explains this craft. Randy, Randy, Randy, Randy.

I think people like them, you know, it's people that, like, aren't selling anything and that seemed to be disconnected from it. They seem to be the most credible and they're like kind of like one off interesting things. But you know, when you have like I don't know about the Jake Barber stuff. Right. I don't know if I can if I buy that, you know, it's a it's just like if they're if they were going to the extent to literally put NSA people in a guy's house and beam fake information into his house and try to confuse him and tell him that some alien civilization is on their way to

to Earth because they're playing it rained out of water and they're coming here to take over in about 15 years. If they're willing to go to that extent and send some guy into a mental hospital just to just to make sure nobody believes anything he says about seeing these aircrafts flying over the mountains, imagine what the hell they're doing 60 years later. Absolutely. It's almost incomprehensible, especially when you add the internet and social media into it. It's like, Jesus Christ, man. Like how are we ever going to get to the bottom of any of this stuff? Well, specifically, Doty has been rear in his head recently. He was on some live stream where he said that...

Yeah, and he's all over Twitter. Yeah. Like, that's so weird. He said that he was recruited in 2019 or something to work alongside Lou Elizando to spread to info for Space Force. But then he came out and said that that was AI. And then he said, no, it wasn't AI. I was talking about something else.

So Doty's always still kind of flirting around. And then there's, of course, just the other day, that new Wall Street Journal article. Did you see that? It's a Sean Kirkpatrick Love Letter that says, we solved all the UFO program. Everything was just an Air Force hazing ritual. That new sign-ease to various Air Force programs when developing stealth technology would be shown pictures of flying saucers made to sign an NDA until though we have secret alien technology and blah, blah, blah,s. Is this the Wall Street Journal thing that, like, talk shit about Lou Al-Zondo?

Because I saw something on Twitter this morning about, like some sort of Wall Street Journal article. Oh, yeah. No, Lou responded to that. Oh, okay. That same article you're talking about. Yeah, and the article talks about how like the 1967 Malmstrom Air Force Base incident was just like a large EMP device that was brought up to the front gate of Malmstrom AFB, 60 feet in the air and basically took a bunch of Minutemen missile operators by surprise turning off the ICBMs. So there's, unfortunately with a subject, there's disinformation and nonsense and difficult gates to check and difficult probabilities to assess at every single corner. It's such a hard feel to navigate because there has been sophisticated disinformation campaigns since the 1950s.

I mean, 1953, right after the sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C., there was something called the Robertson Panel. The Robertson panel was supposed to investigate UFOs, but had already had a pre-written conclusion to diswell public worry about UFOs and say everything was okay. It's just there's no problem here. There's nothing to see here. Same with the 1969 Condon Committee. And then in the 1960s, you have things like Air Force Regulation, 200,000. which restricted civilian and military pilots from reporting UFOs. And on the similar side, you went Opnav 3820, which restricted Navy guys from reporting UFOs with a $10,000 fine and possible imprisonment.

So all along the way, you have all of these siops and you have all of these interesting things. Then, of course, we have ASAP and then ATIP recently those Bigelow Aerospace slides and documents were leaked that talked about ATIP as a white world cover program for ASAP. It's just there's there's so much nonsense to look through everywhere. And then another interesting thing, bringing up Bigelow Aerospace is the fact that John, or is John Bigelow? No, it's not John Bigelow. What's his first? Robert Bigelow. Robert Bigelow is so obsessed with the remote viewing precognitive dream near death experience stuff.

He does these contests with people like to do studies on near death experiences and like he's just spending a ton of money trying to understand this. crazy stuff. That's like, it's like almost stuff that's impossible to like measure. And it's like sci-fi woo-woo stuff that he's interested in. And he's like one of the biggest investors in this UFO aerospace stuff. Yeah. And then according to some of the the Bass documents that released from the OSAP program, like Bass was seriously studying the the TikTok scene by David Fraver as like a human made creation and so forth. You see some of those. This all started with like a pretty recent Reddit whistleblower, a guy who came forward on Reddit talking about how the TikTok attack is ours, that Lou Elizondo and Jay Stratton, specifically are legacy program gatekeepers

that essentially kind of keep emergent technologies from surfacing and then provided a bunch of the bass documents. Really, really interesting if you saw that. I haven't seen that. That's interesting. Which, of course, on Reddit, you've got to be a little careful with any whistleblower. Same thing with Reddit and 4chan. Healthy people on Reddit. Yeah, Reddit. I don't know why you'd ever post there, but it's still... I love Reddit. Me too. I always browsing, but it's still pretty, pretty interesting, but you never know how to assess that, especially kind of you're right, Bigelow is really interesting how he's so into more of the medical, metaphysical side. And paranormal stuff.

Yeah, like he's like, skinwalker ranch and werewolves and stuff. Yeah, man, it's so crazy. See, that stuff's tough for me because I like to just stick to military agencies, intelligence agencies, DOE laboratories, contractors, all that. I like to look at stuff you can really kind of itemize and list out and draw chains of custody and so forth. some of that esoteric stuff. I'll leave that in the consciousness studies to Jesse, because he's got a way better way to talk about that and way better hold on it than me.

Yeah. No, it's a lot, man. And that's what I like about your stuff is that you, you like are going to the crazy extent to like get as much corroboration for this military stuff and this technology stuff, which is rare to see. And, uh, you know, like it's hard. It's hard to find this stuff, bro. Yeah.

The stuff that you're like that, your hour and 45, minutes into the history of this case that happened in Peru, freaking decades ago. And you're, you're, there's not many people that are spending that much time and doing that much homework to connect all these dots that you're connecting. Well, I always worry, I, sometimes I worry that the stuff will be too boring, but I need to say it. Because specifically for Jonathan, like, to arrive at the conclusion that it was Nest that picked him up, DOE Nest, I drew out flight routes from the DOE Cessna jets they owned in 19896 from Sandia National Labs down to Panama Air Force Base and different place around there to see if it was even technically feasible that that could have been

nest. So a lot of these crash retrieval cases, whistleblowers corporations involved, you know, I'm not solving anything. I'm trying to, I'm doing the best to get to the bottom of it, but they really need to be scrutinized intensely because just read just reading the testimony and not really arriving at any conclusion or not having any supporting evidence. It's just not enough in my opinion. Just regurgitating the stories isn't enough. Right. And that's a, that's a trap that you can get into and, you know, people, these people that are like posting every day on every social media platform and I'm trying to just talk about like the news of the day. You kind of get bogged down. You kind of like lose your footing in what you're really

trying to, in like the real investigations that you're doing. Obviously spending, obviously these videos aren't quick for you to make. No. I take you like months to make. Yeah, that's why somebody recently called me like a podcast or I'd say, no, like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, fancy myself as like an old school UFO investigator. Like I, I want to do the research. I want to publish on YouTube. I, you know, if YouTube didn't exist, maybe I'd write books about stuff. But all I want to do is investigate these cases because I do it so I can arrive to my own

conclusions. Like it's, I make these projects very selfishly for myself sometimes because a lot of the time when I'm researching or doing the investigation, I can kind of click with various things. And I also jam pack as much fact or as close to fact as humanly possible because when I create more work. I want to be able to reference my previous work that's incredibly detailed. So if I want to reference a contract I covered when talking about Lockheed Martin, I'm going to make darn sure that I talk everything about the contract and the agencies at play and so forth. Right. You were mentioning, earlier when we were talking about Corso in the day after Roswell,

you said there was some writer that was a Hollywood writer that like made up a bunch of stuff. Oh yeah, Bill Burns. Because the reason I'm curious about that is there was a bunch of stuff in that book about like Velcro and Kevlar and all these like human technologies that were found in that crash. Do you think that was added by this Hollywood guy?

Do you think that was real? Some of them were added. Some of them weren't. But the distinguishing difference Corso makes in his work is like integrated circuitry and transistors and stuff. He makes the claim that a lot of these stuff

weren't copied. Like the technology wasn't basically seeded from craft, but we as humans had our own evolution of these technologies and an understanding of a different variation of something like the transistor integrated circuit allowed for further advancements of our technology.

Because I know Jesse talked about it with you or I can't remember where Jesse talked about it, but he was skeptical that stuff like transistors were taken from the Roswell craft when transistors and various concepts for transistors had existed previously. And I tend to agree with that. I think if anything,

that technology was likely used to bolster existing technology and not just copied. So you think that that thing was a really, production vehicle? No, no, no. So, like, I think that humans, let's say, let's take the transistor, for example, if a transistor was pulled from the Roswell craft. Yeah.

I think that humans were already working on concepts similar to transistors, technology similar to transistors. And pulling like a more advanced transistor type piece of technology off the Roswell crash may have allowed us to make quicker advancements in our current human prosaic technology because we can analyze non-human technology, not inventing technology out of the ether, because we just pull it from a non-human source. Right. So more so just like copy, not copying somebody else's homework, but taking influence from other technology on existing technologies.

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dust collector. Yep, even that. Sweet. Walmart business. It's the Walmart you love. Now for your business. Learn more at business. Walmart.com. Terms apply. Right. There's still a lot of questions with Corsa, right? Like we can't, there's a lot of rebuttals for most of that technology created. I mean, even passive night vision systems, Colonel John Alexander, who I have my problems with. Yeah, night vision was another was another technology they thought in the crash. Well, Corsos said that there was an eye film on the beans and that's where passive night vision systems were, we're pulled from. That's a, that's a very big, big claim. But what's

interesting to me about this is in the in the in the manuscript it was just made for his grandchildren right it wasn't made for public consumption it was made for his family so it's not like he's trying to sell this story to a huge world because there's massive differences in the manuscript versus the book the book talks the first chapter about corso sitting like Isaac newton under a tree like thinking about the roswell crash basically placing himself there no the manuscript is super dry it repeats itself dozens if not hundreds of times but it just is is basically cors those words actually from Corso and not with added fluff. Like in the book, in the book, there's one like senior intelligence or DOD official that Corso basically convinces to, you know, perform a self-inflicted gunshot wound with. Like, Corso acts so tough to do that. And that's not in the manuscript. That's fluff nonsense to make something sell to Hollywood. So there's a lot of added information that I really understand why people take Corso so

skeptically if all they've read is the day after Roswell. Right, right. What is your take on John Alexander? John Alexander, I don't know. What I think the most interesting example of where John Alexander was present was in 1985 at the Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group that was held at BDM's facility in McLean, Virginia. Right. So this was an event that Oakey Shannon, if you've heard of Oakey Shannon, he was director of like special projects at Los Alamos National Labs.

And he has mentioned multiple times in the Wilson Davis interview. in 1985, he went to attend this event at BDM McLean. This event was classified using DOE controls, right? Which is really interesting. A lot of it was ran by John Alexander and at that time new BDM board member, Albert Stubblebine, who had just left US Army INSCOM for BDM in 1984. At this conference, there was so much talk about UFO reverse engineering programs, you know, conducted through speeches

and organization by Alexander, including a massive mention of a, I think it says, like, huge engineering project under Bobby Ray Inman. And of course, that's somebody we talked about. That's the Aote guy, right? No, Bobby Ray Inman is the Nero guy. He's the CIA guy. He's the NSA guy. He's the S-A-C guy. He's the Wackenhut guy. Oh, wow.

He's one of the main villains of this entire story, I'd say. Some I forgot to tell you about is in 1989, he talked to NASA mission specialist, Bob Eshler. Bob Eshler called him. Somehow they got in a relationship and we're talking to each other. And Bob Eshler basically asked if recovered UFOs would ever become available for technological research. And what's interesting is this phone call is recorded. So you can actually listen to it.

And Bobby Ray and Men does the whole, I know nothing about that, but directs Eshler to current CIA, DS&T, Directorate of Science and Technology, Deputy Director Everett Heinemann. It says, if you want to know about it, go talk to Hyman. So Eshler talks about Heineman. Heinemann freaks out. says, no, don't talk to me. Nothing there. Hinenman was also director of the NRO program B and was actually one of the first heads of Pine Gap

when it opened up in the 70s. In 2023, a UFO researcher, RGH UFOs emailed Heinemann, and I wish he would get back to me, but he's never responded to me. And Hineman alluded that he did, in fact, work in UFO programs. He said, I'm no longer in that area of research. But back to Inman, Inman also pointed Bob Eshler, NASA mission specialist, to former director of naval intelligence, Sumner Shapiro.

Sumner Shapiro was also a BDM board member, but Sumner Shapiro met with Bob Eshler, and Sumner Shapiro told Bob Eshler that not only had he studied craft up close, but they were shipped between different DOE laboratories, and some of them featured interlocking components that had to be assembled and disassembled in certain ways if you're going to gain access to the craft. So Bobby Ray Inman points Bob Eshler to all sorts of these guys. Bobby Ray Inman is former director of Nuro, CIA, all this. But then in 2020, and this echoes the present very well, Bobby Ray Inman. Ray Enman appeared on Project Unity, Jay Anderson's podcast, and said he had found explanations,

conventional explanations for every single UFO sighting, which is nonsense to take that stance that every single UFO signing you've ever cracked. Sounds like Sean Kirkpatrick. So this guy in 1989 is pointing Bob Eshler to firsthand UFO retrieval knowledge people. And then he is walking those statements back. And Bobby Ray Edman has a very illustrious history. He was also on the board for Wacken Hut, which is a private security. agency mentioned by so many whistleblowers and including performing security at area 51 s4 yeah i learned all about whack and hut when i had the dudes in here that made the danny castellaro documentary really have you seen that documentary oh holy shit bro you've got to watch that it is they talk all about like

it's it's called the octopus murder you know what i can't believe i haven't watched the octopus murders yet so many people have told me to watch it amazing it they talk it it basically explains how like all of these things are connected with Wackenhut, the CIA, and all of these different scandals that have ever happened from like Watergate to like Iran-Contra and all this stuff. It's all a part of this big fucking crazy deep state blob octopus. And all these tentacles are attached to one another. And Danny Casillera got to the bottom of this thing.

And he was found, he was found with his wrists slashed in a bathtub in a hotel room. Yeah, and it's an amazing documentary. And they go deep into the Wacken Hut stuff. You know, Wacken Hut, Wackenhut even has ties in the subject we're talking about now with the Department of Energy. I mentioned the Department of Energy special response teams that are like really highly armed guys at DOE National Labs that, you know, maybe they transport nuclear materials, maybe they transport radiological materials, maybe sometimes they transport UFOs. But these guys were trained by Wacken Hut.

So they get Wackenut training. Wacken Hut worked closely alongside Indusek or industrial security personnel, which I think industrial security personnel are the actual armed guards and so forth that will be inside of a UFO facility guarding the USAP program locations and so forth. So I think Wackenhut is intimately entwined. And Bobby Ray Enman, he was a board member of Wackenhut. It's interesting he said that he was the guy who said that a bunch of this stuff can be explained away with conventional explanations. All. I think some of them definitely can. Yeah, I agree. I think even the stuff that was leaked by the 2017 New York Times stuff.

Yeah. The footage of the, I forget if it's the go fast or the gimbal. There's one of them where the basically it shows the thing flying across the water with the water in the background. Yeah, go fast. Yeah. And he's like, whoa, are you seeing that or whatever? You can easily explain that with because what people don't understand is that object is moving in one direction. and the plane is moving in the other direction.

And you have the parallax of the water underneath it to make it looks like it's, it looks like it's going 10 times faster than it could be a fucking bird. Yeah. Flying across the surface of the water. I agree with you. I don't think those videos are the cream of the crop definitive anything. In fact, I think that video and picture evidence is some of the least compelling stuff we can get. I'm with you.

The debate still rages on about those videos. It's 2025. Those videos were released in 2017 and there's still been no progress made on a single one of them. Right. besides maybe just the go fast and kind of downgrading it to possible parallax effect. Right. What would be a treat is if you're familiar with the whistleblower Matt Brown, okay. So Matt Brown wrote the Immaculate Constellation Report.

Oh, yes. Okay. Some of those in that Immaculate Constellation Report are- For people that don't know what the Immaculate Constellation report is, can you like summarize it? Oh, okay. So Immaculate Constellation, according to Matt Brown, who, you know, I put a lot of faith in was a reactionary special access program formed, I think, 2017, 2018 to kind of catalog various morphologies, sightings, databases of UFO sightings.

And there's been a lot of discussion that everything Matt Brown found was in a Shrever Wargames file. I highly doubt that. But within the Immaculate Constellation Report, there's detailing of, you know, videos and imagery from satellites of morphologies of craft from everything to triangles hovering over the Indo-Pacific captured by Indo-Pactcom to saucer, giant saucers, resty in clouds, almost like camouflaging itself. The interesting thing about this report is it talked specifically about reproduction vehicles. It once had alien reproduction vehicles, but I think that was taken out. So, yeah, Matt Brown stumbled upon this database and it created the Immaculate Constellation

Report, which was presented to the House in November of 2024. Jeremy Corbell, I think it was his report, but Michael Schellenberger presented it. And Nancy Mace entered it without, you know, Jeremy's page. A lot of drama there. But it's a really interesting report. and of course Matt Brown just did a three-part interview series with Jeremy Corbell

and recently I started making some skating tweets directly accusing Pax River out there near Virginia of having hangers owned by Amentum I think it is that house some recovered craft. Really? Wow. Let's see that dang satellite footage

of that saucer resting in the clouds because that's the type of footage that's going to be compelling. You know recently there was the Lou Elizando kerfuffle of presenting the irrigation circles. Did you see that? No. Oh, my goodness.

So at the UAP. Oh, yes. I didn't see it. This was at South by Southwest. No, no, no. This was early May. Oh, okay. There was a UAP Disclosure Fund meeting.

And I think it was Admiral Tim Galadette, Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, and Eric Davis speaking. And there were some really interesting things that such as Eric Davis talking about four types of non-human species. and as well as most retrievals being maritime retrievals, which would then create a whole new world of investigation for us in Nero. And then Elisando gets on stage says, hey, I was given a picture by a pilot this morning taken at this elevation. And it's just two elevation circles. That has a small illusion of being like a saucer hanging over a flat land.

That's the kind of stuff that actively hurts the topic very badly. Yeah. That's not a good look. Did people call them out on it? Yeah. and there's a yeah it was well it was debunked within like an hour and you know props to props to the people who who debunk that but i just i don't think that if that image wasn't properly vetted that ever should have been posted you know yeah because he he said he was given the photograph

that morning or the night before hadn't had time to vet it but if he can't vet it and eric davis has just talked about four species of non-humans and maritime retrievals please let's not let's not show that because that's just crap evidence to begin with. Videos and stuff really don't, don't push the, push the envelope. There's endless debate over pictures and sidelines. And it's a huge problem because there had been previous pictures posted by Lou of a chandelier in Hungary. Do you remember that photo? No.

It was a reflection of a chandelier. He initially called a mothership. So we got to stop with those photos because it's not helping anyone. Have you seen the video, I'm sure you've seen the video of the, what do they call it? the one that was in Iraq. Oh, the Mosul orb or the jellyfish. The jellyfish. Yeah, the jellyfish.

Yeah. The jellyfish looks like a cluster of balloons. Gosh, yeah. It's so hard to tell with, because Jeremy Corbell posted the, or said the full video shows the thing rising out of the water. Oh, yeah. And if that exists, that dispels the whole balloon narrative. But until we were presented with that, a cluster of balloons or other prosaic explanations are, are perfectly reasonable. Yeah.

we had what's his name the NASA engineer Kevin Knuth or he was not Kevin Canuth he wasn't an engineer he was a new York university physicist physicist great guy right and he worked for he worked for NASA for a while I think and he was telling me the whole story about the uh the Japanese airliner Oh 6 to 6 1826 yes exactly and that whole story of that guy that guy's testimony of that giant freaking ship the size of like 15 football field yeah pulling up right next to him. that's bizarre and there was also a radar guy apparently that like corroborated all of it because you remember the the pilot of the japan airlines flight i think this was in 1986 said that huge craft basically orbited around his plane at insane speeds as well and he tried to take a picture of it and the thing just disappeared in an instant yeah and you're right it was tracked on radar as well i can't remember the i'm sure the debunker explanation is that it was venus or something that the

it was venus well you know the the joke here is that so many debunkers when when trained pilots say they see strange lights. The debunker explanation is just Venus or something, but that's such a compelling case. There's also a Spanish airliner case in the 70s of an actual plane, commercial airliner that was grounded due to UFO sightings in the plane's pathway. I can't remember what the flight is. It's like TK something, but that's another really intriguing story that was also captured on radar. That sort of multi-sensor detection is really what can help push the envelope. And Kevin Knuth is brilliant. He talks about that case in his paper, estimating flight characteristics for anomalous unidentified phenomena or something like that. It came out in

2022, 2021, 2021, 22. But he also talks about some of like the physics and experienced G forces by craft in that siding in the Graham-Buthane encounter, I think it was, and then the Tic-Tac in 2004, which he estimated when the Tic-Tac changed from a high elevation to just above seawater. It could have experienced up to 5,500 Gs of accelerative force, which is crazy. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, there's a lot of sightings from pilots and airplane sightings from all around the world. It's, uh, and then, you know, another thing I wonder about is like, how many, like, going to this underwater neuro thing, like, you never hear about submarines witnessing anything. That, well, submarines also don't have windows, which is convenient.

Yeah, but what about the radar that? Like, they have all kinds of, I'm sure they have all kinds of sensors that can detect anything around them and sonar and, and all this stuff. And they spend so much time underwater, and there's so many submarines. Annie Jacobson, when she was on here last, she was showing us a map of all the submarine highways around the world for all the countries.

And between the U.S., Russia, and China, it is just like the oceans are littered with submarine highway, nuclear submarines patrolling everywhere. So there's got to be tons of reports from these nuclear subs, which obviously would never probably leak into the public. Right. And what's interesting is, you know,

I think you and Jesse talked about it, Robert Hastings and UFOs and nukes. and how UFO swarm nuclear sites, it stands to reason that UFOs would swarm nuclear subs. Of course. They're loaded with warheads. And there's a lot of, so in Project Blue Book, there's a great document.

It's like the unexplained of Blue Book. And it's just all the really unexplained sightings that had no real conclusion. And some of them are, of course, maritime and U.S.o sightings. And some of these are like tic tacks hovering above the water in 1950. And I think Kevin Knuth talked about a New Zealand destroyer case just off of New Zealand. I think it was a, I think it was actually a Kiwi ship and not an American ship that encountered like a huge saucer type craft that passed very fast under the destroyer and knocked out the power.

Oh yeah, I think I remember him saying that. Yeah. And then there, I've talked to some, uh, former, this has got to know something. Sorry, continue. Oh, no. I've talked to some former Navy guys who have talked about like, uh, they've mentioned aircraft carrier sized U.S.Os. And this is a guy I plan, I'm not going to spoil it because I plan to talk to him. kind of soon on one of my programs, but that, I really hope he talks about that because that is

intriguing. Aircraft carrier size, USO, but you're talking about NASA? Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, you know, NASA has got to have, there's got to be some, you know, I know NASA is a very public-facing organization, but like, you would imagine that if NASA's been involved in so much since the moon landing and all that stuff, that there's got to be some sort of interest or investigations into this stuff from people at NASA. Well, plenty of NASA astronauts have had a interest. Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell. I mean, Gordon Cooper himself discussed even before he was on NASA flights,

kind of chasing UFOs in a jet while in service. And there's, I can't recall them off the top of my head, but there are stories of like, lunar or Apollo astronauts on the way or returning from the moon seen strange craft or strange craft following them. There's allegedly a tape taken by one of the, of the Apollo astronauts. There's the testimony of, this is a famous Greer testimony of Donna Hare. She was a former NASA employee who claimed that NASA would airbrush UFOs out of various satellite imagery or space imagery. But I agree, but it already is somehow it seems like NASA's

almost disconnect. NASA feels a little bit to me like it's a little bit left out of the club. NASA's pretty underfunded. NASA doesn't have some of the most cutting edge technology. I think at least to me, it seems like a lot of the cutting edge technology and actual craft materials are not relegated to space exploration and see in Mars. It's relegated to tactical reconnaissance. It's relegated to asymmetrical warfare advantages

and that stuff's going to be kept in the deep black of the military and intelligence community. Yeah, I think who was it that was telling me? I think it was Jason Georgiani was telling me a story of a guy who, I think he worked at NASA, but was like shown something.

And then he got like hit on his bike. He got killed, like, riding his bike, like, after that. Oh, I'm trying to, God, who was that? I think we talked about this with Kevin Canuth as well. There was some guy, or no, maybe Jesse talked about it with Rogan, too. There was some guy who basically was, like, shown photo. Oh, this has something to do with the moon. He was shown something on the moon. Oh, Carl Wolf. That's who it was. Carl Wolf. Yeah. And he was killed. Yeah. And I think Joe made a joke, like, doesn't look like he biked enough because he was a little more than poorly side. Yeah, Carl Wolf talked about anomalies on the moon and how I think what they spoke about is Carl Wolf was privy to some of these images and was like gobsmacked and so excited for the upcoming news to show structures on moon.

He's like, oh my God, this is going to be released and it never got released. Yeah, that's that, you know, that's another Greer whistleblower. I maybe there is some interesting stuff on the moon. I know Jesse and Joe were talking about the dark side of the mood, how, you know, the moon's tidily locked. So a lot of the time the dark side faces away from us. But also there was a recent, it was a guy on Sean Ryan. It was a recent general. I can't remember what branch of service,

but was talking about how the Chinese are mining helium three on the moon. Oh, really? For power sources. That's crazy. Because we haven't had a, we haven't, the U.S. hasn't had a person out of low Earth orbit since like 1972. Right.

Why? That's on that. Unless we have ARV that are traversing our solar system, which is possible because you know like Gary McKinnon, right? He's the NASA, he's the NASA hacker in 2002, I think it was. He's a guy who lives outside the States now. Yes. He hacked into various DoD databases and found like a non-terrestrial officers list.

And I can't remember the ship. But he saw an image of like a huge saucer shaped. I'm sorry, cigar-shaped craft in front of one of our Jovian planets. So who knows? You know, there's there's the whole secret space program stuff that SSP with like Corey Good and the 23 and back. That's all really out there stuff that I don't really subscribe to. but, you know, maybe there is, maybe there have been ARVs that have been taken for a spin outside of, outside of Earth.

Yeah, the moon stuff is odd. The moon stuff is odd. The moon landing stuff is really odd too, because I know it's, it's frowned upon to question the moon landings. Yeah. But, like, there's a lot of really big questions that, like, need answers about the moon landing. Like, like, how did they, how do they lose all of the data on the moon landing stuff? They claim that if you ask chat GPT, chat GPT will tell you that the response or the answer to why they lost all of that information in that data is because they accidentally overwrote their hard drives.

Like they use those hard drives to rewrite stuff and they accidentally like erased it or whatever. So now we have none of that technology. That seems like a I forgot my homework type statement as a kid. Yeah. It is. And it's like it's also the only, it's also the only technological feat. in any sort of industry or any sort of technology that hasn't advanced or like exponentially grown since it was first implemented. Right.

Yeah. Because we were talking about the DSRVs, right? The deep submergence rescue vehicles. Those had when they were created in 19, when they were operational in 1972, they had better computing systems than even the latest Apollo lunar modules. So there wasn't the best and brightest technology and innovation in these Apollo systems. It was pretty mundane technology that never seemed to innovate. Yeah, and I've never heard. I even asked Kevin about this when I was on, when we were on here.

I asked about that Van Allen radiation belt stuff. And like, you know, is it really that toxic? Or, you know, have we not been able to send anyone through that Van Allen radiation belt? And I haven't heard anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why. What is? How we can get through that. And like, why? Because apparently, like, the Russians sent like a dog through the Van Allen radiation belt.

And it died like a day after. The claim there is that the Van Allen radiation. belt like destroy either keeps either destroyed the footage that we had at the moon landing or oh yeah kind of keeps us close to home basically it's toxic for a human to pass through which right it's this the latter okay it's toxic like a led according to um this guy we had in here uh bart sibel who has all these documentaries about oh yeah yeah yeah he claims that no human can survive passing through that van allen radiation belt unless we have shielded air v materials right right unless we have shielded a Arrview materials, but then you was like, we would have been going to the moon, you know, ever since then.

But we have it. And we keep saying every single president, every single president has said, since Bush or since that happened. I think Jimmy Carter was the first one said, we're going to go, we're going to go back to the moon. And then, you know, even Trump has said multiple times, we're going to go back to the moon. But the moon landing, the moon missions keep getting pushed back. And it just recently got pushed back again from it was supposed to happen September this year. And now they're saying it's going to happen like June of next year. Remember we were supposed to go to Mars in 2025? And even back in the, the 60s and 70s out of the Rand Corporation and stuff,

there were all sorts of plans for lunar bases and like lunar tunnel systems for trains. Huge plants. What? None of these were, there were supposed to be maglev systems underground on the moon. Yeah. Let maglev trains and none of this ever transpired. It is curious. The whole moon is the Apollo missions.

There's a lot to chew on there. And I've never really taken the time to sit through and sift through it, but it's so interesting. And that period of time in the middle. of the Cold War was when the United States was there was so much deception and so much shit happening around that I mean the Kennedy assassination cover up you know Watergate you know MK Ultra that was that was all happening at the same exact time oh yeah the moon missions happened so and you know it's just there's so many questions and you know the fact that anyone who questions it is automatically painted as a fool. Yeah. Anything should be questioned.

One of the, speaking about exploring our own solar system on our own moon, what we talked about the flux liner alien reproduction vehicle, I forgot to mention. One of the interesting things Brad Sorensen said is that some of these suit and ties showing off the flux liner claimed that the flux liner had been taken to various places in our solar system because this thing flew at basically the speed of flight using zero point energy systems and that our own solar system was devoid of other intelligent life, which of probably. But so that's interesting. So there's always a world, there's always a possible world in which either Gary McKinnon's

non-terrestrial officers or the flux liner alien reproduction vehicles out zipping by Jupiter or Saturn, which gosh, that would be intriguing. Yeah, Catherine Fitz is so, she sent me this book called, I think it's called the Rings of Saturn. Have you heard of this? I think so. We're allegedly like back in the, I forget what year it was, but I get there's a photo of the first probe that got like really close to Saturn took a photo of the the ring around Saturn and the I haven't read the book yet but apparently the claim of the book is that they found

like some sort of weird looking vehicle that was like parked inside of the ring of Saturn. I think I've heard this. I think I've heard this in passing but I don't really know anything about it. Wow. Yeah. It's just interesting. Somebody like her who's so smart, right? And she's you know, she's a math wizard, you know, she, she, she looks at this stuff and she's been in the government and she's, she's a very reasonable, rational, rational, smart human being. Also, like, believes in all this stuff, like, you know, taking all this stuff from the Nazis and, and, uh, creating a breakaway civilization of bankers trying to get off the, the freaking earth in case something happens and, um, you know, all this UFO stuff. It's a weird thing for someone like her to be interested in.

But like, you know, she's a very credible person. Yeah. And she's really hip to the kind of UFO lore in the UFO subject. She had like a series of 20, like 25 interviews over the years on Dark Journalist. And I watched every. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, she is over 20.

Everything from like the UFO economy, 1.0 to 3.0 to so many things. And she's really dialed in with a lot of these subjects. She blew my mind when she was explaining. like Elon's Doge, when she was explaining, like, Elon created Doge to find all this waste, fraud, and abuse, right? But he's getting, he's taking, uh, auditing like the IRS, Social Security, the HHS and not looking at the black hole of the trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon. Yeah. But like, and her, what she was saying was that Elon's deliberately trying to like get all of this data

from the IRS and the HHS because it's, you know, you could have all the data on all the human beings inside of the United States and integrate that with XAI and Palantir AI and Elon's been, you know, on record talking about how he loves China's WeChat. You know, the WeChat is the. Oh, yeah. It's everything. It's basically payment, social media, texting. Like it's all, it is all funneled through this centralized we chat. And, and the fact that he's, you know, talked so highly of the WeChat thing and how he wants to create turn.

Twitter into his own WeChat and simultaneously working with Palantir and integrating all this stuff and using all of the HHS, Social Security, and IRS data to integrate it with the AI is and working with Palantir who just got like an like an $800 million contract two weeks ago. I don't think there's any optimistic outcome. No. Of doing something like that. No. And he was also this recent falling out with him and Trump Oh my goodness part of it had something to do with

Elon really wanted this specific person to be the head of NASA and Trump said no I don't want that guy to be the head of NASA because he said something was fishy about him or something. That Twitter beef came out of nowhere. That was really shocking to see because then of course Elon implicated

Trump in the Epstein files and he said that's why they're not released. And he just got ugly too. Yeah, things got ugly really fast. And so you, you know, you're saying you're not optimistic about this kind of Doge platform, A, because we would lead towards a even closer towards a CCP national security state with that centralized processing, and that probably wouldn't even get to the bottom of where these dollars are going.

Right. Yeah. Apparently, apparently all, you know, all the places that Elon was looking for waste, fraud, and abuse pales in comparison to what the Pentagon is missing and the trillions of dollars. Like, why didn't he go look for that? Because those are funneled into black holes. And there's so, one of the things I really want. want to understand that I really can't for UFO programs, which I'm interested in, Catherine Austin Fitz is interested in, is the creative accounting around them. You know what? I think I can't definitively prove it, but I think there are numerous vehicles in which to fund these programs, like we talked about earlier.

ID IQ indefinite delivery and definite quantity contracts, IDC contracts, sole source contracts, cash transactions, skimming off contracts, overcharging, all sort of, siphoning off funds, leftover funds and a fiscal year. The amount of creative accounting must be a nightmare to try and track any of it. That's why it would be great if we had a UFO whistleblower that actually worked in legacy program accounting. That'd be some people's dream. That'd be Catherine Austin Fitz's dream.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It would be. But like, again, it's refreshing to see somebody like her looking at it from the looking at it through the lens of accounting. Yeah. You know? And it needs to be done because especially for the subject of like deep underground

military bases. Back in the 60s and 70s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineer, like we talked about, published a ton of studies on deep underground facilities and would often go through cost evaluation and discussed level costs and kind of come to conclusions that these bases could be constructed. They could be constructed in preexisting cavities without too much expenditure out of the budget. And there's also discussion that some of these tunnels between these underground bases are used, are of course cord out via tunnel boring machines, TBMs. But that a lot of these projects to find these dollars, we might have to look at the Bureau of Reclamation that have dug out tunnels all across the United States for waterways for aqueducts, etc. And how these might have some clandestine secondary operations to track those monies. And one of the questions with these underground bases and these bunkers that people are building, like, if there's some sort of like catastrophe and that's the main idea of people that build their own bunkers, is like how are you going to power it once you run out of fuel? Like, do they have some sort of like crazy special energy? They could also self-contained nuclear reactors. But I mean, if that ever happened, you know, you and I'd be screwed. I live in Denver.

There's a massive FEMA continuity of government site under Denver. Oh, yeah. I'm not going in there. There's Mount Weather. Like, we're not going in there. All of these sites, a lot of them are for continuity of government, but then there's deeper layers. There's huge stiffs existing around. And a lot of them are provable.

For example, the Manzano storage area at Sandia National Labs is an acknowledged stiff. An area under Los Alamos National Labs, also in New Mexico, is an acknowledged stiff. And then there are the Army Corps of Engineers. There's historical conspiracies of massive underground facilities below China Lake, right, in California. Naval Air Weapons Center, China Lake, really creepy plays. And places like Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona. And back in the 60s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers did a ton of deep basing site studies. and show that specifically, I think it's Imio County where China Lake is and then Yuma County, Arizona are perfect spots where natural cavities exist where massive underground facilities can be built without having to core out any more rock.

So some of these places, there are some U.S. Army Corps of Engineers studies that some of these underground locations can be located up to 8,000 feet underground. 8,000. God. That's crazy. Yeah. I would imagine they probably also have, I mean, if I was to bet, I would imagine they have to have some sort of set up on the moon, like some sort of base on the moon. Oh, agree. If we actually did go to the moon in 69 and 70, you know, during those Apollo missions, I would find it hard to believe that we haven't set up something there to like at least back up the data of humanity, you know, because if there is some sort of like crazy catastrophe.

that wipes out most of civilization, it's going to be like, it's going to wipe out our technology and the data that we have. And you would want to offload that. You would want to keep that safe somewhere for humanity to eventually reset somewhere. Oh, yeah. And if you do have a secret space program that uses some types of conventional rocketry where you have to overcome the Earth's escape velocity, it makes far more sense to station some of those assets on the moon where you don't have to consistently overcome that is such an escape velocity. So it makes perfect sense. Yeah. And of course, the RAN system and other FFRDCs and corporations of interest,

we're doing studies of maglev systems below the moon surface. Which if we've done it here, which I believe we have, I think it's definitely possible on a place like our moon. Yeah. Especially if we have stuff like the TR3B for logistics and ARB to transport some stuff. You know what Michael Herrera talked about, that huge octagon craft that he saw in Indonesia that was able to fit multiple containers carrying people, according to him and Jake, as well as massive trucks, able to zip together and fly off. So that sounds like a perfectly suitable logistics transportation craft that you could use to shuttle materials or building materials, construction materials, supplies, logistics to place like the moon if you want to have an off-planet base. Yeah, totally, man.

Well, bro, thank you for doing this. Thank you, Danny. This has been fucking amazing. Do you tell people your real name? I think Jesse said it once. So it's, it's, okay. Okay. Yeah. So go by Sam. I didn't know if you're keeping it secret or no. No problem. I just don't like when Marines try and scare me by saying my full name. Yeah. Because he did the full, I think he, I'm trying to remember, but he did the full Mr. Samuel, like full name. So yeah. But thank you, brother, for having me. This has been an honor. And this is the coolest studio I've ever seen. Oh, thanks, bro. Yeah, we've been working on it for a while. But we're about to move. So it's going to go out. Nice. What, are you working on anything else that coming up? People should look forward to. Yeah, absolutely. So whenever one project's done, I'm always working on the next.

I don't know what's going to be released by now. It may be a big project on SAIC or it may be another interview with a former Navy commander with some really interesting knowledge on like the Wilson Davis notes and stuff. But in between my videos, always expect another one in about four weeks time. As soon as one ends, I'm working another one. That's the channel. The videos will always be about crash retrieval, reverse engineering, material exploitation. I try and lay the topics out as best as possible.

If you want to start on one video for new viewers, maybe the Navy one, because that one's really interesting. Or maybe the Jonathan Waygant or Alien Reproduction Vehicle, Corso, Grumman. I don't know. The Dougway one is fucking phenomenal. That one right there, reverse engineering at Edwards. That's the story of Ed, the guy I told you about. So that's always one interesting.

That co-jum, I don't know, man. They're all fun to me. That's why I make them. it's a it's a rabbit hole man and once you start watching you can't stop it pulls you right in oh i know the subject is so difficult to parse through but hopefully hopefully a couple years from now we'll we'll have this subject ironed out a little bit yeah we'll see and hopefully the uap d a the new legislation to be entered into the 26 national defense authorization act gets passed because what that does quickly is that aims to set up a independent review board appointed by the president confirmed by the

senate of like civilian experts to help roll out a responsible disclosure plan Formerly it was McConnell and Rand Paul, I think, that blocked this from the Senate and then Senate communicating with the House to get this past. And I think there was some involvement of Mike Turner, former rep that that... He's the Ohio guy, right? Right Patterson. And then there's even some rumors of like the eminent domain discussion being talked about by Travis Taylor and Jay Stratton. So I truly hope that if that legislation gets introduced again, which I believe it will, that that can finally get. get past and we can finally start to peer behind the 1954 atomic energy act.

Well, cool, man. I learned a lot. Thank you again for your time. Thank you, brother. We'll link all this stuff below. And that's all folks. All right. Appreciate it, man. Good night, everybody. Spring is the season everyone refreshes everything except their blinds. People put it off because they think it's complicated. But at blinds.com, we've spent 30 years proving it's not. Right now, you can save big during the Spring Cyber Monday sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we've got you. Free samples, real design experts, and zero pressure.

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