Danny Jones Podcast - #347 - The Ancient Greek Technique to Gain Super Human Memory | Nelson Dellis

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Nelson Dellis ( @NelsonDellis ) is a 6x USA Memory Champion and one of the leading memory experts in the world. SPONSORS https://butcherbox.com/danny - Get free turkey or ham in your first box, or choose ground beef for life - PLUS $20 off your first order. https://www.ridge.com/dannyjones - Use code DANNYJONES for 10% off Ridge. http://hexclad.com/danny - Find your forever cookware & get 10% off Hexclad. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Nelson's YouTube channel: @NelsonDellis https://www.instagram.com/nelzor https://www.nelsondellis.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Becoming a memory expert 04:09 - Memorization techniques in Ancient Greece 07:29 - Origins of the memory palace technique 17:54 - How memory competitions work 24:05 - How to remember what you read 31:39 - Countries with the best memories 36:01 - Ancient memory techniques 45:05 - Memory isn't stored in the brain 01:01:14 - Training for remote viewing 01:14:50 - Dalia Burgoin & explanation for remote viewing 01:22:37 - Faking memory & psionic abilities 01:30:39 - Bijay Shahi & memorizing books 01:42:06 - Psychic abilities that everyone has 01:49:03 - DMT & memory 01:54:57 - Live remote viewing demonstration 02:16:09 - Itzahk Bentov & the bell curve of consciousness 02:25:25 - Sky watching with the Bledsoes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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How the fuck do you become a memory champion? Yeah. Trust me, when I was a kid, I never thought that I'd be one or have anything to do with a good memory. But I started, wow, it's like since 2009-ish because my grandmother had Alzheimer's and I was concerned for myself if that was my future. I was young. I was in my 20, so not a problem that was nearby, but I just was curious. what could i do now to improve my memory and one of the first things i discovered was these memory competitions and lo and behold the people who compete in these things

can do phenomenal feats of memory through trained practice and that was the hook for me that was just like okay well maybe i could do that and it just kind of took off from there so you decided you wanted to learn like tricks to improve your memory and that's how you discovered there's this whole like olympic circuit of memory champions that compete all around the world the world. Yeah. And then so, so what did you start doing to how did you work your way up to this level? Because I'm sure there's like a lot of work that has to be done until you can like get to that level. Yeah, you know, I didn't know at first like when I first was interested in memory in general. I was like, well, I want to improve my memory, but like what can I do? What are tangible

things I can do? And then when I heard about the memory championship, I was like, okay, here are records and events that happen at a competition that are measured. I could use those as like benchmarks. to train myself. It gives me a quantifiable thing that I can work towards. And so that was really helpful for me because I need goal-oriented steps like that to master things.

And yeah, I just kept getting better. I had meticulous notes on my performance and I would train my memorization of numbers, memorization of playing cards, names, lists of words, all the things that were in the competition. And I just try to get better and better to get to the current record that existed at that time and all with the goal of, you know, just bettering my memory, not necessarily to win

or be the best, but it just became such an obsession of mine. Yeah. Every day, every minute, I'd just be trying to memorize stuff. Yeah. So, so like one of the biggest questions for me is what is the main difference? Because like, obviously, I'm sure everybody has somebody in their life that they've encountered that just has a natural, like, good memory or has a better memory than that, than they do, right? And we've all, like, I've heard the.

term of people having photographic memories or different types of memories. Like, then you just equate that with somebody like being smarter, having a higher IQ. But like, what is the difference between somebody who's just really smart at remembering things and somebody who can memorize a deck of cards? Is there a difference? Yeah, that's a tough question to answer. I'd say humans generally have the same memory abilities. You know, obviously, like you said, there's people that.

that just have a knack for names, or they just remember all sorts of facts. You've had, you've talked with Jesse, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. His memory of fact is just insane. Yeah. I don't have that. Like, I can't naturally do that.

I have to use my techniques. And some people can do that, and he probably can't tell you how he's able to do that. He's just got that. And that's hard to pin down why one person may have that versus another. But we all have that ability to train it in a sense. You know, some people think more visually. Some people maybe focus more or are more around things that are of more interest to them.

So that's the kind of things that they remember. It really depends on their life circumstance and experience. But I'm not denying that there's people who have a knack for that. But I don't know if it's like an easy thing to explain why they do or they don't. But there are techniques to kind of get to that place. And with training, you can get. a lot better to a point like that. Yeah. One of the, um, one of the things that blew my mind about this whole, uh, memory stuff, this whole, this whole, there's like this whole world of memory training and like, just like the study of and the fascination of memory. And it goes back to like way back into ancient Greek stuff. And there's like I simonities, which is talked about in the book, the Einstein, moonwalking with Einstein book, who I guess was in like the fourth century or whatever. and he was a performer, I think.

And he was, like, performing music in front of people. And then the whole place crumbled. And he was trying to, like, use his visual memory to figure out where people were so we could, like, pull the bodies out. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, and, you know, that book also, like, spends a lot of time delving into, like, ancient Greek literature and how, like, the style of writing changed and went from scrolls to actual codexes where there was pages. And, like, you know, I was talking to the classicist's buddy wine this morning. like, I was like, how do these people back then like go through if they wanted to find something written in a scroll? How would you figure out how to do it? Because like, there's no, there's no breaks in the words. It's just never ending words with no breaks, no punctuation on a long scroll. There were no spaces. Like he's like, no, you didn't. You had the people had to have better memories. That was just like a, that was like a huge value. Um, that they had back then was like being able to memorize shit. Yeah. It's like wild. And we're it just seems like, obviously, I've talked about this at nauseam on just with the folks that I've had through here,

is that people are losing their memory because they're over, they're using technology to compensate for it nowadays. And it seems like it's going. That road leads to somewhere where we're going to have basically no memory left. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, memory is something that we've always needed up until somewhat recently.

And right, like you said, because we have all these other tools that can replace it, we don't use it as much. But the fact is that thousands of years ago, and even before the Greeks, this was how information was passed down through civilizations, traditions were shared to the next generation. Without those memory skills,

none of that would have survived. And you had to have that. If you wanted to be an intelligent person or to carry on your city or town's lore or whatever, you had to have that trained memory. There was no other option. Yeah. Or it would wither away, right?

Yeah. And what's fascinating about, yeah, I've heard the Simonides story. I didn't know. I haven't heard the performer side of it. I always thought he was someone of a poet. It actually wasn't, it wasn't. Maybe he was a poet, but I think, um, I think he was like a musical poet and he would do performances.

Okay. Yeah. Because I think most of the stuff back then was musical, especially Homer. So it was all, I don't know if, I don't believe that it was, I'm not sure, but I don't think it was, it wasn't musical. as a on purpose to help people remember it. It was just musical because I think in around the time of Homer and up until I don't know like the second century

or something like this that the Greeks just spoke in rhythms. Yeah. They spoke musically. They didn't just speak like me and you do. It was it was rhythmic and it had a beat. It had like a flow to it, which is crazy. Yeah, but I mean the story is somewhat that he stepped out. or was summoned outside and then the whole thing crashed all the there it goes lyric

poet yeah oh there you go yeah but yeah to come to identify the dead bodies who had been crushed by this collapsing hall or whatever he imagined the positions of the people at the table their locations and that spawned this idea well I don't know if it necessarily spawned it but that's the famous story where people talk about this memory palace idea right where by location you can actually place information and remember it really well because our brain remember spatial information really well. Yeah, I did that exercise in the book,

in the Einstein book, and it works phenomenally. Isn't it surprising? It's incredible. Yeah. So the idea is like if you want to memorize something, right? Anything, you kind of like break it into chunks. Yeah. And then you basically associate it with a physical location.

Yep. So there's a few parts to it, right? First you have the information that you're trying to memorize, and it's usually going to be something. to be something abstract, you know, in terms of our brains don't really like to memorize numbers and passwords, right? This is all abstract symbols, right? Generally. So in recent times, we've, they're new. They're new for our brains. Our brains are not designed to memorize stuff like that. It's designed to memorize pictures, visuals that have associations to things that we know. That's one part of it, converting what you're trying to memorize into pictures. The second part is,

how do you organize that? Where do you place it in your mind so that you can go back and retrieve it in a reliable way? And that's where the memory palace technique comes in so handy because you're placing it or attaching it to a physical location that you know well that you're thinking about. So when you go through your house or palace, if you have a palace, you know, you have these ordered locations in your house. You walk through your front door, then there's the kitchen over here and the stairways, whatever. you can attach images for things that you're memorizing on those locations and the location preserves the memory of the order of things and the structure and the organization right which is when people try to recall things and they forget it's it's not that they forgot it's really that they can't

retrieve it right sometimes they know it's in their mind they just can't get it out because they didn't have an active way of placing it knowingly in their brain that's the big problem right so when you did these memory competitions what sort of shit did you have to remember? And did you have to go around to a bunch of like locations and store stuff? In my mind. Yeah. Not physically, but yeah. No, that's what I mean. Like you go to a place and like walk around, like, okay, I'm going to put this thing here. Yeah. You know, as I'm trained memory athlete will have dozens to a hundred or hundreds of memory palaces, different ones to store different kinds of things. Depending on the size of the information,

you need more locations. So I have this whole like catalog. of memory palaces that I go through. Amazing, dude. And on a competition day, yeah, I've got to go through the different ones. Okay, I'm going to use my childhood home for this set of numbers. I'm going to use my ex-girlfriend's apartment for this one. A hotel I stayed in once that was memorable on this vacation for this set of numbers and whatever. So how do you organize all of that?

You just like, let's just say you picked up a book you want to memorize, right? Tomorrow you go and buy a book. You want to memorize. So you would say, you say, how? How would that process work for you? You would read the book and then you would afterwards think of a location that you haven't already used to store memory and associate it, like spend time sitting there working through where to store each memory of each chapter of that book.

Right. Yeah. There's a few things to go into that. First is, you know, I have memory palaces that I use for training when I memorize numbers every day or cards every day. I'm kind of visiting the same ones that are kind of designed for that. But then if it's new information, like say I have a book plopped on my desk and I'm going to memorize it, I'm going to create a new memory palace for that specific information. So when I

want to recall information from that book, I know it's only in that memory palace that I designed for it. So then the question is, okay, what do I build? Or what do I think of? What's the memory palace? I need to decide what is the route? Is it, well, the place, first of all, is it, I mean, I can create one on the spot or I could go to a museum and decide, oh, this will be, I'm just going to map this into a memory palace. Or I can use some place that I've been to. who that I haven't thought of as a memory palace yet. And then I need to know what am I memorizing, how much information is there.

So I know how many locations I need. So that's a big part of mapping out, especially a big project like that, memorizing a book. Like am I memorize, you mean every single word like verbatim or just generally the important things? Key ideas.

Key ideas, stuff that I want to take away, you know. That also depends, right? Like when you're going to memorize something, what are you actually going to memorize? And is it important to memorize everything? Or can I just, you know, is there certain stuff that I already kind of know or can piece together through logic? And the rest maybe are some other points I need to memorize.

Yeah. Deciding that's important too before you like go out and waste all this memory palace, real estate on stuff that actually isn't that important to memorize. Right. That's fascinating. Because I was telling you before we started recording that like sometimes when I'm listening to audiobooks, I can recall, like if I'm, listening to it driving from here to my house, I'll drive that same route the next day and I'll

have that moment pop into my head when I was listening to the audio book right when I drove past like a specific building or something like that. It's so weird that like there is a legitimate association that's like hardwired into us with physical locations and like learning stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same with music, right? Imagine the first time you heard this album that is so important to you. You can be right there. Like I know where I was when I first heard this or you have these strong memories of when you were blasted in that song or who you were with. You know, it's something about music. I think it goes way back past Simonides that as humans generally we are, you know, our brains are storytelling machines through

stories and music and poetry and beats and rhythm. That's how we remember things. That's how we were able to survive and pass on ideas, which is ultimately how we were able to survive. Right. So modern day now we don't need to do that. But that's how we had to. Isn't smell also like super hardcore linked with memory? Yeah, yeah. I think that was like the most, the sense that is the most commonly associated with memory, right? Yeah.

Who was I just talking to about this? I was training somebody and they were asking me, oh. Oh, the memory champion can't remember something. Look at this. I forget. I do forget. You can ask my wife, she's the one that can attest to that the most. But no, we were talking about how she was like, oh, I've heard that memory is really strong for a smell is really strongly related to memory.

I was like, yeah, yeah, it is. And she was saying, oh, if I can just turn my images and I'm memorizing into smells, then I'll remember it faster or better. And I was like, in theory, yes. And smell memory is so potent. I mean, if you get a whiff of something from, say, your kindergarten class, like, there used to be these like letterboard. from when I went to kindergarten, I guess. And I remember years ago, I came across the same thing. And I was like, wow, what a nostalgic thing.

And I sniffed it. And I was like, you know, in the Matrix. Teleported. Teleported. I was there, right? And I'm sure many people have had a similar experience. Yeah. But if I were to ask you to just imagine, I don't know, a certain smell.

Like, I mean, there's certain polarizing smells like smoke. you could probably imagine, right? The smell of smoke. But in terms of your imagination right now, if you're thinking about it, it's kind of elusive. Like, you can describe it. Yeah, it's like a bitter, smoky smell.

But are you really experiencing it in your mind when you imagine a smell? Probably not. Versus if I said, a picture an elephant, you can almost see the elephant. Right. Right. So the smell thing, I think, is super powerful when you can get it to hit,

like you get the experience, but like to actually conjure it up in your memory is difficult because you have to have the right words to describe it. And it's not like a like a true visceral experience when you imagine it in your, your, your, your visual space. Yeah, you can't just like pull that up at will like that smell, you know. Like I remember, I remember thinking about this years ago when I was just starting memory stuff. And I had gone to wash my hands.

I had this soap that smelled really like marsy-pany and I loved marsy pan. And I went back to my table and I was like, I wonder if I could like try to generate that smell in my mind. And it had gone. You know, it's like I couldn't. I could say it was marsy pan smelling, but that was it. You know, it's just like, but if I had smelled it again, it's like, oh, yeah, there it is. You know, I don't know what it is about smell that makes it so elusive in that way, but ever open your fridge around dinner time and just find a bunch of random leftovers and half of a condiment collection? That used to be me until I started using Butcher Box. For nearly a decade, Butcher Box has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free,

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Go to butcherbox.com slash Danny to choose your offer and get this limited time deal with free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com forward slash D-A-N-N-N-Y. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. So what type of stuff do you actually have to memorize in these competitions that you do? Yeah, it depends on the competition. So there's the US Championship and then there's like international world championships. And some of them have different standards and events.

But the US one is a day long and the morning is four different events, memorizing numbers. You get five minutes to memorize as many digits as you can in a row. Then you have a deck of cards. You got to memorize as fast as possible, like a full deck of playing cards. Names and faces. So you get a whole packet of headshots of random people with first and last names. Get 15 minutes to memorize that.

And then you have poetry. So it'll give you a random unpublished poem, 50 lines. And you got to memorize it for 15 minutes and then recall it. And then the afternoon, the top seven or eight, it changes from year to year, go to like a playoff round on stage, like elimination rounds and they have to memorize lists of words. There's a tea party event where you have to memorize stuff about people who come on stage and say their name, where they're from, their hobbies, their car they drive, their pet name. Wow. And then the finale is two decks of cards in five minutes, and it's usually

three remaining competitors and they have to say the next card one by one until something makes a the deck of cards and you have to flip through it and then you have to put it down and then recite the order of every single card yeah the 104 cards yeah two deaths how do you do that uh a lot of practice but it's using a memory palace to store different images that represent the cards that's that's the very basic idea okay um there are a few different techniques on how to encode the cards into pictures because it's not like i'm looking at an ace of hearts and thinking of an ace of in my living room. I have a person, an action, and an object associated with each card.

And that's one of the strategies is to make these cards each have those three components. And then every triplets of cards, I can group as a person doing a thing with an object. It becomes like a little mini scene representing three cards. And I place that in the location of a memory palace. And then the next location, I put three more cards and so on. Yeah, so there's a lot going on there. You gotta know your memory palaces really well. You also gotta know your images really well for the cards.

Like I look at the Ace of Hearts. That's my friend Arno. Queen of Hearts is my mother. King of Hearts is my dad. I'm the Ace of Diamonds. Like I know those. So when I see the card, it's like I'm seeing the person. You know, it's so well trained at this point.

Whoa. That's wild. And same with numbers. It's pretty similar. And so do you already have your physical location memory palace in your head before you even like start doing this. Right. Yeah. So I have my set of memory palaces

that I use for training cards. So the day of or in the finals, let's say, I'm in my mind thinking like, okay, I'm gonna use this memory palace. It feels fresh. I haven't used it in a while. It's like clean and ready to be used. Yeah, that's I was gonna ask you next.

I was gonna say, can you like do a reset of a memory palace? So we will tape over them. Tape over them. Yeah, that's good way of putting it. You have to kind of give them some breathing room. If you do them back to back, memory palace you'll have echoes from previous storings right or memories so you want to avoid that so that's why the memory palace i'll probably decide to use in the finals um it will be one that i haven't

used in maybe a few days so it's kind of pristine like just the the cleaning lady came in you know and brushed it up or whatever spring cleaning yeah exactly um but yeah and and even still like in competition in competition on stage with the competition the championship on the line like you know memory is hugely affected by stress and nerves and in that situation like i may have it down but the moment i'm supposed to say the next card there's been times where uh i just freeze up you know and right so yeah one thing i did recently um which wasn't on purpose this was before i knew anything about any of this memory stuff was I was reading a book and I decided to put a specific Spotify playlist in my headphones while I was reading this book.

I probably read the book. It was probably like a 600 page book. I probably read it in like two weeks. Okay. And every time I would sit down to read it for like 30 minutes to an hour, I would just repeat this soundtrack in my ears. And for some reason, I was able to recall that book better than any other book I've ever read. And that was the only time I've ever done that. It was cool because it was like a sound. It was like a badass. It was a Hans Zimmer soundtrack in my ears while I was listening. So it was like I was watching a movie while I was reading the book. That's cool. Do you remember which soundtrack it was? It was the inception soundtrack. Okay. And it was Annie Jacobson's nuclear war book. Oh goodness. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a really good. Yeah. It was a good combo. Yeah. Cool.

And then you just decided to do that for, was there specific reason? She was coming on the show to talk about that book. I was reading it before she came in. And I was read the only time I would read it was would be before bed. I would just sit in bed for 30, 45 minutes before I fall asleep and just put the headphones in and just read. I had the PDF of my laptop. And I would just read, you know, 15, 20 pages with that music in the background. And was it music idea like like a more of a focus thing? Like if I put this track on or this album.

Yeah, it would tune out other noises. It would tune out my wife's. scrolling TikTok next to me and uh cool and it might i figured it might just lock me in more yeah to the story you know and it did it totally made me feel like i was watching a movie but reading text yeah and um i think it worked yeah i can recall a lot of that book yeah uh you know and people will listen to certain kind of music to study right mm-hmm lo-fi beats or whatever yeah i'm wondering though like if a similar way to the to the locations of memory palaces what if you for book you read you listen to a different soundtrack for each book i wonder if that would be a similar

kind of association you could use yeah no and we talked about it before we started that location changing the location of where you read books can also do a similar um uh enhancing of your memory of what you read when where you were when you read the thing right um i've never tried it with music other than just to like focus and kind of like you said drown out noise yeah and i don't know if that i don't think that would work with all music right if no i don't think so heavy you're going to be distracted right you can even if you can zone or tune out the it's got to be instrumental it can't be like you can't be like you because your brain is naturally going to try to listen and that's this multitasking thing that would be difficult to do

especially if you're reading yeah the same time do you notice any difference uh when it comes to retaining information when you compare listening to books versus actually reading books Totally. I'm all about like analog. Not that I always do that because I also appreciate my time and I have so much to do that I'll listen often to just audiobooks and at 2x, you know, at certain times, which isn't great. But I'm really good at deciding what I want to put to absorb as an audiobook at a faster speed. You know, it's usually stuff that's like a self-help book will be very repetitive um you know if there's an interesting part that i really want to kind of like absorb better or focus in on i'll slow it down maybe even repeat it a few times but um if there's other books that i really want to savor you know i slow down um and i'll often try to do it in like analog form hold the book read the actual book yeah read in different

places um that's hard to know like what necessarily a book what which book would deserve that unless it's kind of pre-plan. Like, for example, I love Lord of the Rings. I try to reread that every year. And I will all... Really? Yeah, yeah. I will never listen to it on an audiobook.

I would need the book that smells and, like, has been worn, you know? And I need to read some of it sitting by the fire when it's kind of cold. And near the end of the year, Christmas time, you know? That's important to me. But then there's books that I just, like, need to get through or want to get through. And it's like, I have the general idea of what it's... trying to say that I don't need to listen to every single thing with intense focus that I remember it verbatim. Is that the primary reason why people would claim that you can retain stuff better when you

actually read the physical book versus listening to it? Because of the other associations, like the touch, the feel, the smell, the location of it. Yeah, going back to what I said at the start that we remember pictures of things like visuals. Like what is a visual? A visual is all all of your senses interacting. It's not, I know the words, it's visual, so it sounds like it's just your eyes or your mind's eye, but it's all of that. So if you can incorporate that into a sitting of reading,

like you can touch the book, you're holding some physical object in a space. Right. That, you know, and you got the pages there and you can see the words. I think that's more of a memorable experience than something zipping through your ear. Although, you know, you remembered some of it

where you were driving, right? Yeah. But I think there's more going on when you have driven that same route listening to hundreds of different books and podcasts so it's kind of like yeah yeah yeah not a very good memory palace now it's my daily drive basically you know have you tried making any other memory palaces besides the one and uh the example in the i did the example in the book in um my mom's house but i haven't tried making any others yet and i know what now that i think about i forgot the one that i created during the book but like it

my point was that that feels like a task in itself to do that to sit down and actually think through a memory palace and associate something with it. But now I'm like, I really want to buy like a I can't remember the last time I read a paper book. Oh yeah. You know, it's either always audio or it's the, um, the digital PDF version. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like it's got me really motivated to like actually buy a physical book and pick a unique spot and like, and I also like the way you broke it down in your video on your YouTube channel. Like you're like, this is 500 or 400 pages. It will take me eight 30 minute chunks to finish this. I can do it here, here and here.

Like, that was great, dude. I don't do that all the time, but there's books that I just, like, want to get through. And I'm having a hard time, you know, getting my reading done for whatever it's going on in my life. Like, breaking it down into these chunks like that I can visualize is super helpful. Right, right. Which is, it's helpful for me too because, like, one of the biggest parts of me preparing for podcasts is reading shit, like reading books or listening to podcasts or whatever.

And it's really hard for me to structure my life around reading a book. Yeah, of course. Especially when it's text, like I can do it. I'm driving or I'm at the gym or I'm walking with my kids or whatever. But like, you know, that's a really special and like an important skill and tool, I feel like to have, especially when it like it goes hand in hand

with doing podcasts with people that write these books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's intentional. Like when you, you know, when you can do stuff while you're on the go doing something else, yeah, that's great. You know, you're killing two birds with one stone. But if you can take the time to sit down

the book, like you're saying something with that experience. And of course, it's going to be more memorable when you have that intention going in. Yeah. That's really, and you hit it on the head that where, you know, doing a memory palace exercise is a lot of work to do, but that's the whole point, I think. It's like if I strip down what memory techniques are, it's really just paying a lot of attention to something, like through these elaborate methods, you know, like sitting down, thinking of this place to store these images and coming up with images for the thing. Yeah. you're really spending a lot of time devoted to that, those units of information, you know? Yeah.

The same goes for the book, right? Like, if you sit down, hold it, read it, interact with it, like take notes, underline stuff, like on the paper, like hear the sound of you scratching, you know, underline there. Like, that means something. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I've never understood the huge wallet.

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It fluctuates. During my era, my heyday, it was the Germans. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man. No shit. The Germans. Yeah, yeah.

They were. I wouldn't have expected that. Yeah. And then it switched to the Swedes for a second. And now, and there was the Mongolians that they have like crazy schools in Mongolia where they just teach this stuff to little kids. And teach memory stuff to the little kids. They have memory schools. Yeah. Whoa.

They're wild. Those records, I don't even know what the records are these days. And then Chinese, they've done crazy stuff recently too. Yeah. Well, the Chinese are really good at math, right? Because of their language is somehow tied into math, I think. Yeah. Well, they have shorter syllable.

slobic words for the digits zero through nine. So, you know, when you think of digit span tests where like we can hold numbers in our head, we have numbers like seven, two syllables, right? Zero, right, is two syllables, whereas they're all just one. So if you think about how we can recite a number in our head, they can, on average, recite longer numbers or hold longer numbers in their memory with no techniques just by reciting in their mind. Really? the number over and over again because they can say more in the span of a passing thought,

you know? Yeah, totally. Well, I feel like definitely, I feel like I absolutely remember the stuff I'm most interested in the most, right? Like in school, when you're forced to learn stuff that you're not really interested in, you're just sort of like going through the process of passing this grade, passing this class, I don't feel like most kids are into any of that stuff. Like if there's something I'm reading that I'm really into, I will absolutely

recall it way better, right? And that like pulls you through the book in itself when you're really interested in that topic. Yeah. So that's the power of attention. You know, we direct our attention to something. The more intensely we do that, the more we're focused on it and the more you remember. Yeah.

And that's kind of the heart of the encoding process of the memory techniques is how do I turn that complicated dry thing into something that like lights up my brain in an exciting way? You know? Yeah. So all those card symbols. Ace of hearts, two of clubs. It's just a number and a little fancy picture, right? But what if I look at two of clubs and it's Jesus, right?

And four of clubs is Harry Potter. Yeah. That's a lot more interesting. Yeah, totally. I can pay attention better. Yeah. It's crazy that like this stuff isn't taught like mainstream at all. It's like super obscure knowledge.

Yeah. And that's, they teach it in Mongolia. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what who decided to create schools for all. Oh, look, Mongolia, China, Vietnam, frequently ranked among the top countries and memory skills Vietnam's come up yeah that's true Mongolia holds the top position wow yeah I wonder why why do they value memory more than the other to teach that to kids you know yeah no I love that and Vietnam has some schools now too

Algeria I didn't know that India yeah it makes sense the US had a stretch I didn't do great at the world championships I think my best was like seventh place but there was a guy after me Alex Mullen, who won the world championships twice, I believe, or three times. Really? Yeah. He was he from? He was U.S. guy.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Mongolians have a strong memory due to a combination of cultural traditions, formal training and modern education focus on mental athletics. Mental athletics. Wow. Historically nomadic life required memorization, memorizing extensive information without the written word.

while today national curricula and specialized academics actively trained memory techniques contributing to their success in memory competitions. That's really, really interesting. I have a few friends through the memory world from Mongolia, and their nomadic tradition is very strong. I don't want to speak too much of it because I don't know, but I can see that their traditions there are important to them. So I would mention that.

Yeah. Well, it's weird that Socrates refused to write anything. down. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's so it's kind of ironic because, you know, thanks to all the people around and that we're writing shit down, we know about them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Um, what's interesting about, you know, these old tales of, of, memories and memory palace like the Simonabody's stories and the ancient Greek methods. I mean, when I first started this, that's all I had heard, that these were ancient Greek techniques. It developed by the ancient Greeks. But that's not necessarily.

true. I mean, it's so many different. Yeah. And other civilizations have versions of this. I mean, in Africa, there were tribes that would use these, I think they're called lacusas, which are these kind of memory boards, these pieces of wood that they would stick shells or little rocks. And that would be their tangible memory palace. And they could store or imagine parts of their oral tradition or, yeah, their traditions on these, these, these, boards and these boards, these physical boards, which hold, you know, like visually attached to those markers, all those stories and things that we passed down. There's even stories that, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the

things. Yeah. I don't know where I heard that one, but, uh, the nascalines were memory palaces. Yeah. I don't know. That's bizarre. Yeah. There's a, a lady in Australia, Lynn Kelly, she wrote a book called the memory code. And it talks about all these past civilizations and how they use versions of memory palaces or memory techniques to pass on traditions. And it's so pervasive. It means everywhere. There was a quote my friend was telling me from the Orphic texts where they said like, I am a child of the sea and the sky, bring me to the water of memory or something like that. See, find out when the Orphic cults were or the Orphic. I'm not familiar.

When were the Orphics walking around? Sounds like something from Lord of the Rings. Yeah. They wrote it on gold sheets when they buried their dead. Okay. Orphicism was ancient Greek mystery religion that flourished around six to fifth. Okay. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, never heard of that. Oh, wow. Everybody wrote about that stuff. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting because like, those cultures were obviously like way more intellect. Like I know it's a different way of thinking,

but like it's like they were way more intellectually advanced. Yeah. And tapped into something else that we aren't now. It's like there's this, there's this weird correlation with the atrophy of the, I don't know what how else to call it, but like the psychic mind and like technology. Yeah. know and like it seems like back then it was that deeper more intellectual quote unquote psychic mind

was was more a part of their was more woven into culture and society and it led to things like you know the creation of democracy the scientific method people like you know Aristotle and Socrates and all these people that were just like these incredible philosophers who are writing stuff that we recite today. Yeah, that's the last thousands of years. It doesn't seem, it seems like the rise of the technical or analytical mind that we see happening today with people trying to create tech and trying to optimize their day to be people that are trying to be more productive or, or optimize for, you know, return on investment,

that sort of part of the brain has atrophied with that, you know. Yeah. I often think like, here I am a memory champ. And I still have to work to memorize the stuff that I'm memorizing. I would love to go back 2,000 years and watch one of these people who's memorize something. I'm sure it's just so effortless, right? It's just like part of everyday things they got to do. Just like we pick up our phone and send a text, like to pick up something and memorize it.

It was probably easier because they knew how to do it. But also because their minds were primed for that. They're doing it all day long. Right. And that's all there was. There was nowhere else to put it. And Greek. I've had people tell, I've had this, there's a couple Greek experts, classical scholars

I've talked to. And they say that when you learn ancient Greek, it does something to your mind. Like it warps your mind. Interesting. It sends your mind through a portal where like you think differently because there's words that can have, that can mean different things based on context. And there's over. 1.2 million unique words in ancient Greek.

Ancient Greek. So we're not talking about like, not modern Greek. Ancient Greek. One point two million. Find out how many unique words are in modern English today. When compared that. So ancient Hebrew was 7,000 unique words.

Oh, that's it. And the Hebrew stuff was all religious. Yeah. Right? So we have 170,000 unique words in Oxford English Diction. over one million when it include obsolete words scientific terms and different word forms 45 to 60,000 okay a more manageable figure for active vocabularies around 45 to 60,000 words for high school educated adult plus in modern tech like the one million words coming

from scientific terms like the Greeks didn't have that yet you know right right right right that's crazy so like yeah man and then that combined with the fact that they were walking around talking in tune and like talking speaking in rhythm it's just like what the fuck would that have been like to walk around there communicating with people like you know buying and selling and trading and just talking in hymns and songs and yeah dude it's crazy to think about it's wild you know because there's so much literature. There's so much ancient literature that's out there, and most of it's Greek,

and like from like plays to comedians, to philosophers to religious stuff. And, yeah, dude, it was another fucking world. And like to imagine like how their brains would have been different, how they would have been wired different. And even like, what sort of things would their minds have been tapped into, minus all the technology we have today.

Yeah. And, you know, even considering things like their diet, pollution that's in the air and the water, like, what sort of other senses could they have tapped into? Yeah. Yeah. So you've had experts on this show that are not, probably not fluent, but who are well versed in ancient Greek? Yes. Yeah. I didn't know that was something that you could like learn in full.

Yeah. It's a dying, it's a dying specialty in. scholarship like it's a dying uh like people there's not many people that are getting degrees in these ancient languages anymore well it makes sense right there's got to be an expert that can decipher yeah old text and stuff yeah yeah they're called classicists right or like there's uh there's linguists there's classicists and there's like philologists and it's all the study of these ancient languages primarily greek like there's latin there's hebrew there's sumerian but the greek was like the bohemath of antiquity like it took up the like the like the like the life

Library of Alexandria was 99% Greek. There was very little Hebrew, very little anything else back then. Yeah. So, yeah, the hardest thing, the crazy, the hard part about it is, like, oh, there's so few people that can actually translate it and read it, you know? But there's so many books that, like, are just English versions of it. And you don't know how, we don't know how accurate it is, you know? That's so interesting. Yeah.

But yeah, no, it's wild. What is this, Steve? The number of words in Beowulf. Oh, yeah. Beowulf was intended to be recited orally as a poem from memory. Oh, yeah. Right. And it was like if you write it down, it's 32,000 words.

That would be a fun memory project. That's crazy. To remember Beowal to transmit it orally. Yeah, I do. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's ancient texts that were transmitted orally for, for hundreds of years, thousands of years. The, allegedly, the story of Atlantis was an oral transmission for a thousand. thousand years. I didn't know that.

Which is like how accurate, how accurate is it? Yeah, game of telephone. Right? I'm talking about a game of telephone. You want to say the Bible is like crazy with redacting books and adding books over just 2,000 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like imagine some of the other stories that are out there that have been orally transmitted

forever. Yeah. You know, at least some of them are written down and we have hard copies of them. Right, right, right. That's wild. But, but yeah, man. There's, there's people out there who say that, memory might not even be stored in the brain. Have you ever heard this? Oh, goodness. This is,

this is, this is what I was hoping to talk about on your show, man. Um, I want to hear where you, where you've heard this from, but I'll tell you my experience. So, okay, you know, I learned about this stuff in 2009 and just started improving my memory and, and, you know, I had an experience. Yeah. With my first example, I listened to a, uh, an audio book and it walked me through an example, just like you did in Joshua Fowar's book, I was like, wow, this is cool, it works. But over the years, as I've tried to be faster and, you know, I've trained the skill down

to something that's so automatic for certain things, not every memory task, but like the cards, for example, like I would drill that every single day. And sometimes, you know, I'm trying to get down to under 30 seconds to look at a deck of cards in my prime. I'm not there anymore.

But I'll remember, I never forget this. The one time, I kept flirting with 30 below 30 seconds. I could get 30 seconds. 0.84 or 31 seconds, 30.12, but never break the 30 second barrier. And one time I did, this was Christmas 2012. And I got 29.74, I believe, is my time. And I was like, oh, man, I broke it.

I did it. And it was such a weird experience because I remember memorizing the deck, like, the experience of actually going through the deck memorizing. I was like, there was a part of my brain that was like, I'm not actively doing it. like I don't feel like I'm memorizing anything. I'm just, it was like a flow state, right? Yeah, yeah.

And then when it was done, I just knew it all. And I was like the first time that I ever felt that I wasn't a part of the memory process, that it was like coming from somewhere else. Whoa. And it was weird. It doesn't happen all the time, but in these flow states, especially with memory. Like with flow state, you know, they're shooting basketball, everything goes in, like it's, it's just kind of like mindless in the state, right, of doing this.

But with memory. experience. Yeah, but with, yeah, and but with memory, like it is all about your mind, but being away from your mind as your mind is doing something is a really trippy experience. And so I, in the last five years, we talked about this briefly, but I've been more in touch with my spiritual side and remote viewing and kind of having these sci experiences and psychedelics and stuff. I'm pretty convinced that I don't think all memory is coming from inside of here, that I think it's just a receiver, that there's some substrate out there that has all information about everything, including my personal memories and things that I've memorized and will memorize. And I'm just, we are all able to tap in and out of that.

To get information to write information, you know, that's my feeling. And with the remote viewing, that's why I wanted to talk to about it. Because it's, when I visualize things in my memory space, it's so similar to how I get a download when I'm remote viewing. Like the visual space is almost the same. So I almost feel like remote viewing is like kind of memory, but for things that are non-local or for the future, you know? You've actually done remote viewing? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really? Yeah. We step into that in a moment. But I was curious to hear why you brought that other question up. Well, obviously in the book, in the Joshua Fowler book, they explain, they've been doing experience. experiments on rats and I think monkeys where they try to take out pieces of the brain to figure out where memory is stored, right? We've been trying to figure out which part of the brain

stores memory. And there's all these experiments where we take out different parts of the brain, but memory never seems to go away, at least long-term memory. There's some parts of the brain, I think the hippocampus you can take out where short-term memory seems to reset every day. But for the most part, it seems like from all the experiments that have been done, memory is sporadic throughout the brain. Like it's like a hologram projected on the entire brain. So as long as like there's enough brain there so you can be a functioning, like function and be alive and not paralyzed that you can still remember stuff or at least animals can still remember stuff based on the experiments. Right. And I think I was listening to Rupert Sheldraig talk about this.

where it's basically similar to what you said, where he believes that the human brain is not like a hard drive on a computer. It's more like a television set, where if you're watching the television, the show you're watching isn't stored on the screen, on the television itself, it's being streamed from somewhere. Yeah, pulled in from the antennas or

right, Wi-Fi or whatever, yeah. Right, which is a compelling idea for sure. But then like the question is how do you explain, how do you explain somebody who has played piano their whole entire life and can play Beethoven or play every Beethoven song or Bach or whatever it is, like flawlessly, effortlessly, because they've spent hours and days and years doing this stuff, right? They've spent the time doing that and I can't do that. So how do you explain that?

If it is just a stream of, of, that you're getting this. stream into your brain from some higher level of memory or consciousness or whatever it is, how come only that person who spent all that time practicing it can do it? Right. No, like, why can't you say, oh, I'm going to tap into that and suddenly play by Beethoven or Mozart? Right. I don't know. Maybe it's not so much about, maybe it's more that that trained person has found the right

channel through the practice. Maybe that's what practice is, is like honing that connection, right? to the information that's out there. And you don't quite know how to get that channel, but maybe through the practice you get there. I don't know. I don't know how to explain or answer that question. I don't have the answer.

Just speculation. But there's definitely something that we don't know or can't explain about how the memory performs and the brain performs. Yeah. Yeah, it's a mystery. The morphic resonance thing's interesting, too, that Sheldrake talks about.

And I also believe this might be in the, in the book, in the four book, but like, I think it was whenever the first person broke the record for the four minute mile or did the four minute mile, it was the first time in history, anyone ever done that. And then like, it wasn't more than a couple months later that people started breaking it all over the world. Right. Yeah. And it's like the same, like when a problem is solved in one part of the world, somebody very soon after solves that problem in a different, completely different part of the world, completely disconnected from that. person. Yeah. And he calls that theory morphic resonance that like there's this resonance that's connected. Consciousness is somehow connected to these people that they figure something out. And this is also connected to like the simulation theory. So like if we are in a video game, something gets rendered in one part of the video game. It's automatically easier to render here. So it's conserving processing power. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. We find that same phenomena in memory sports too where with the cards you know i couldn't break 30 seconds like 30 seconds was a barrier for

it was like the one minute mile for a long time and oh really some of the germans uh broke that pretty uh convincingly and then just like the dominoes felt like everybody was breaking 30 seconds and now i don't know now maybe like five six years ago it was 20 seconds yeah since broken that and now it's like the 15 to 10 second mark is like the new one minute mile yeah four minute mile sorry yeah it's bizarre dude it really is when you start trying to reconcile things like the simulation and this morphic resonance stuff and the brain being an antenna to the idea of of memory and like how is a store because we know i mean just based on those experiments like they i mean i don't think steve maybe you can find this but i don't think there's been any sort of like conclusive science

that points to exactly where short-term or long-term memory is stored in the brain. Do you know of anything? I don't know. Yes and no. I mean, I think there's certain things that you can pinpoint are being generated here or accessed here. But then I think there's other things where it's like not so clear why or where this is being stored per se. You know, you look at scans of memory athletes using memory techniques.

Yeah. And like an fMRI machine. Yeah. Their whole brain is lighting up. You know, it's not just those components that we attribute to memory, which is interesting, you know. Yeah, it's really crazy, too, how there's people that have, like, severe autism or had, there was one guy in the book that had, like, this crazy seizure when he was, like, four years old. And it somehow broke his brain into being, like, a genius where he could, like, recall crazy stuff. He could do incredible math experiments in his mind.

He was taking equations. He was, like, somehow. like visualizing pie in his mind and he could see it all and like he could recite like the first whatever 6,000 digits of pie in his mind because of this in the book yeah okay towards the end yeah was it um there was a documentary made about this guy yes i know a lot of Daniel something yeah danil tam it yeah that's it took me a minute to find a good visual representation but this i think does good justice. Right, but like, what, like, when was the study done and like, did they find out exactly

where memory is stored? Like, I'd be curious if there's like a conclusive, uh, summary on this stuff that like scientists agree on. Interesting story. Well, they talk about it in the book with Daniel Tamin, um, how he was actually a memory athlete. Did you get to that part? Yeah.

There was a little bit of scandal there that, um, not to say that he wasn't, um, on the spectrum and had some abilities with his memory, but he was in part, maybe more than we think, using memory techniques for. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So the AI says, no, there is no single definitive conclusion on where memory is stored in the brain. Scientific understanding has moved away from the idea of memory being located in this in one specific spot.

Instead, memory is a dynamic process involving multiple brain regions and the physical altercations of countless connections between neural. neurons. Wow. Memory is not fixed. The enigma persists. I mean, it makes sense, man. Yeah. So, so then wouldn't that make this, this picture bullshit? Yes, that would make that picture bullshit, Steve. I mean, I think it's saying that some of these parts of the brain are involved, highly involved in these processes, but that's not the end of the picture, you know? Well, there was one guy who was like the most studied.

man in brain science or something who had he had a seizure it was a different guy who had a seizure when he was young and he had a um what does it call when they take out a part of your brain because you have seizures yeah well they yeah i don't know the name was the procedure where where they take out part of your brain uh because you're having seizures and that basically broke his short-term memory and he can remember longer than like a few seconds right short-term yeah short-term but he had like all of his memory before that point. He'd remember everything. He would wake up every day.

It was like ground hot. Every day was the same day over and over again. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have people who are well advanced with Alzheimer's and there's certain things that will activate their, their memory like music, for example.

Oh, really? Yeah. And they suddenly can be lucid in their memories for a few minutes while they experience this nostalgic music. Hmm. Temporal lobotomy. Oh, lobotomy, yeah. Lobectomy.

Tommy, lobectomy. Lebectomy. In 53, he received a bilateral, medial, temporal lobotomy to surgically reset a part of his brain. That's crazy. Oh, because he had epilepsy. That's why they did it. Good God, dude. Could you imagine getting brain surgery in the fucking 50s?

Yeah. Like, how primitive that house is that? Yeah. He wasn't able to store or form new memories. The holidays are coming in hot, and that means big roasts and nonstop cooking. And I'm no longer tossing around warped and scratched up pots because I'm now using hexclad. These pans are consistent for getting the perfect sear. They hold up well to metal utensils, plus they look badass.

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and help support the show by telling them we sent you. It's linked below. Now back to the show. This reminds me, there's been a few times where I've gone under for surgeries and they, supposedly there's this drug they've given it to me before they give me the stuff that knocks me out called Verset, which has a similar effect where it,

once you're under that, you can't form new memories. So I'll always tell my surgeon or whatever, like, give me, after you give that to me, like tell me like 10 words, like as I'm going down, you know, because I'm going to try to break it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can always remember them. And they're like, how the fuck did you do that? Like, I was like, well, I was just using memory technique. But did you make a palace?

Is that how you did it? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, that's amazing, dude. I'm like counting down 10, 9, 8. But in my mind, like, just quickly plop in those words in a memory palace, you know? Yeah. And they were there. And they were just like, I don't know how you did that because you're not supposed to remember that.

Yeah, anesthesia is a weird thing. Yeah. You don't have dreams when you're on anesthesia, right? I think it's like that you're completely shut down. Yeah, yeah. And then you wake up. And like you had virtually zero memory of any of that because your brain shut off. But do we actually know that you're not experiencing it or you just don't remember?

That's a good question. That's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah. Like what if what if you were fucking fully conscious? Yeah. During the surgery. Yeah. And they somehow had a drug that wiped your memory. Yeah. You would never know. Like a severance situation except you can't just like severance.

Yeah, yeah. But that person is just experiencing all that. all that pain. Is it possible to have dreams during anesthesia? What does it say? Yes. Andesthesia alters brain activity, but does not completely suppress consciousness.

The brain may generate dreamlike experiences, similar to those experience during REM sleep. Oof. Okay. Yeah, dude, could you imagine? Yeah, wild. Yeah, let me, I'll tell you about the remote viewing thing. Because the reason I got into remote viewing,

was 2021, there was a random post on one of the World Memory Championship Facebook pages. And it said something cryptic, like, if you're interested in making a little bit of cash on the side using your memory, send us a message. I was like, okay, I'll check it out. And yeah, they didn't say anything until I was on the phone with somebody. And they were like, have you ever heard of remote viewing? And I was like, I honestly had never. I didn't, I was like, is that some kind of streaming service or viewing something, I don't know, away from your TV? I was so dumb. I was like, no, have you heard of Project Stargate?

And I was like, yeah, maybe some psychic program. And then I, where did you see the ad for this? Well, it was a post on one of our memory Facebook pages. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So they were looking for memory athletes. Got it. And that's what it turned out being is it was a team, a remote viewing team they were putting together with memory athletes.

and non-memory athletes, but they were interested in using memory athletes because of their visually, their trained visual abilities. There was a theory that they'd be better perhaps at remote viewing because of that trained ability. Okay. And they wanted to experiment with, uh, mean, and a couple other people. And they were going to pay us to train for a month with a remote viewing coach and, uh, to be psychics or whatever. And, uh, it was for a trading firm. So they were eventually going to a trading firm. Yeah. So they were going to have a, do associate of remote viewing on tasks every day that had to do with the fluctuation of the market.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And so we were potentially going to get a portion of the earnings and stuff like that. But the projects fell through at some point, but I did get my month training. I did get paid, so it wasn't like a scam. They actually paid me. But I was so skeptical.

Like, in my worldview, at that time, none of that had, there was no room for that um i grew up studying physics um very classically that was what i was going to i was going to be a physicist um and so this was not explained in that world you know remote viewing so i was just kind of like rolling my eyes but i was like you know what it's maybe a cool story to tell uh i'll see what these people have to say is they coach me how to psychically see things that are non-remote uh not non-local and uh yeah within maybe the first week i had some experiences that like I couldn't explain, you know, with getting the information right out of nowhere, seemingly.

And so slowly it kind of changed my mind about what is possible with the mind, you know? So were some of the people that were recruiting you guys? Were they like former Project Stargate people? No. So the, no, the guy who trained me was trained by a guy named Ed Dames, Major Ed Dames, who is from one of the original CIA programs, I believe. Yeah. Not the original original, but one of those. He himself is a controversial character. But either way, the technique is roughly the same. Everybody has a little bit of a different take on how to do it, but it's ultimately the same.

You're generating information from seemingly out of nowhere or tapping into something with your intuition, you know, in this visual space. And yeah, I'll never forget the first time I had like a hit. Yeah, where, how did that go? Like, did they invite you out somewhere? Did you have to go meet up with people? And like, how did that work? It was all virtual. I actually never met the people higher up at this firm.

It was kind of weird and hush, hush, but I would meet with my coach every day for like a month. And, you know, step by step, he taught me the formal process of how to remote view. And he would have a picture that he had randomly selected. he'd give me a task number i'd have to from that task number try to intuit what the picture was like through descriptive words sketches um and yeah some were not even close but then some would be so eerily close like what kind of stuff would they tell you to look for well at first for

training it was just random pictures right so it could be a landscape of the highlands in scotland it could be a picture of a dog you know it could have been um you know, mountain in the Swiss Alps, anything. Okay. I didn't know. I had no idea what he was choosing. It was totally random. And he actually had software that would randomize some image selection.

So it wasn't like he was even preparing them. So there's no way he would be able to tell if you were actually remote viewing successfully or not. Well, yeah, we would go over my results after. Okay. But I'm saying there was no, because I was trying to go through all the explanations. Like, how was I able to get some of these so correct? Like, is he subliminally, subliminally giving me the information? like and it's all a trick or am I actually coming up with this information somehow.

But the main one that like really changed my mind was I drew and described like a whale breaching the ocean. And it was after a couple of weeks. So we had developed he had taught me the different stages of getting really detailed information from these sessions. And so I had all these components that just like looked exactly like the picture of all the things that could have been it was exactly the whale breaching the exact same way with the same colors and and and and components of the photo like it was all described there it was just like mind-blowing to me that i generated that so i'm a little confused so okay he has the photo and you can't see it correct and it was my zoom so i he's on another so he has a random generator on his side that

creates a photo and then you don't get to see the photo what does he tell you i get a task number, which is just a task number. It's just a random eight or six to eight digit number. Okay. There's nothing in the number. It's just a random. Okay. And I used to ask questions about that. I was like, why do you need the number? What's the number about? Can you just let me do it? Right. And they're like, well, no, the process is, you know, you get this thing that you can kind of I don't know how this all works. I don't think anybody does. But I think there's something if I had to kind of speculate when the, the, tasker, him who's deciding what the photo is and giving me the task number that he's assigned to the

photo, that intention links the two somehow. Okay. So when I get the number, even though it's not any, no information regarding the photo, maybe that through line to the signal that like connects all the information in the universe is what I can tap into through that number. I don't know. So that number on his side is associated with the image. Right. And he's decided that. Okay. And so he'll say like, one, two, three, four, five, six. I write the, that down and then I go. I do the thing. So he gives you the number, you write the number down. Yep. And then what do you do? The first step is you come up with a what's called an idiogram, which is really just as soon as you write the number down, you let your hand just draw a scribble

almost, like whatever your hand does. Your hand will do something if you let it, right? And it might be like this, like a little zigzag. It might be a loop, whatever. And then from that, you kind of, it sounds so out there, but you just kind of like, Feel what you feel. I don't know how else to describe it and and you'll get like a general just salt or like a feeling and you kind of write those down like, okay Fluffy and then like a general category. Okay, landscape. Okay, start with that then you go into descriptors. So the way that he taught me is he would say you first want to go through all the colors you sense the the taste the the the smells the dimensions the structures anything that comes to mind, right? And you really want to try to quiet the logical mind. So anytime you're trying to like say, oh, this is what it is. It's a bird. It's a that's what you want to avoid. You're just going through your trying to describe things through your senses like what is just coming to you. Oh, I feel like a pink orange, a sharp,

salty smell. Whatever pops into your mind. Yeah. Yeah. Without and it's hard to do without your mind starting to be like, oh, it's pink and orangey. Well, maybe it's like a, a, a, a parasol on the beach. Okay, it's a parasol. No, you can never name things. Um, it's always about just kind of describing. And then after you've done all the descriptions and sketches even, then you can start to maybe put it together and be like, okay, this all kind of comes together and is describing some kind of outdoor scene with some kind of structure that is, you know, tall jutting into the sky and there's some kind of life form around. You know, you describe, but in those ways, which I always thought at the beginning was kind of like a cop-out.

Because it's like, yeah, of course, you guys are saying your psychics, but you can't really tell me what you're seeing. You're just describing. And maybe through general words, it feels like you're coming up with the right information because you can, you know, it's, you can convince yourself that it's correct. But there's a lot of scenarios where you end up going down this rabbit hole of really specific descriptors. And it's like, it can't be anything else.

It can get to really specific things that are really accurate to what you're describing. I've talked to a few of the original remote viewers, and they can do this on a whole other level where they're writing such detail down that... Which ones did you talk to? McMonagall. You talk to him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chris and I went to his house a couple of years ago, Chris Ramsey, and interviewed him. That guy's insane.

like impressive insane crazy stories too but there's something there's still do at that age yeah i don't know if he'll actively do sessions anymore but he for a while would even pass his days where he was working for the government he would be invited to like these japanese shows and do it live on tv or he'd even help find missing children and things like that wow and he'd be right i always tell these remote viewers, I'm like, why can't you just go figure out and tell us how the pyramids are built? Like, that's what we all want to know. We want to know who built the goddamn pyramids.

Like, go do that. Tell us. Yeah, yeah. You can go to Mars a million years ago and tell me what was going on. Just tell me what was happening in the Giza desert. Yeah. Three thousand years ago. Yeah.

That's the frustrating. That was, and I guess still is, the frustrating thing about it is, you know, it's, it can provide really interesting results, but at the same time, it's, so amorphous and like, like, slippy. Like, it's not like this definitive like, oh, tell me what, what, what do you think of? Oh, it's bread, you know?

Like, it's not that simple. There's all sorts of caveats. And like, no, it can't, it's gotta be, there's all sorts of requirements for it to work. And at first I saw that was, you know, psychics, like talking shit, you know, But I really think that it's just such a, like there is an effect there,

like some psychic effect, but I don't think it's a strong one. And maybe it has to do with what you said. Like over thousands of years, our intuitive mind has kind of like atrophied, right? And so what we have hanging on is just like a weak force of it still. You know? I wonder if you could train some like uncontacted tribe

in the Amazon to do remote viewing. I bet you they'd fucking kick ass at it. And they have no knowledge of tech and stuff. No knowledge of any kind of technological society or technology or anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're just fucking running around naked with a bow and arrow. Yeah. I think it probably remote the shit out of some stuff.

Probably. Have you ever tried remote gear? Never. You've had remote viewers on the show. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've had, we've had at least one, maybe two, one or two. Yeah. Yeah.

And they've never. We had one of the original Stargate dudes. Oh, wow. on the show. He was shot in the head. See, that's weird. A lot of these things get,

are start with, like, trauma. Huh. You know? Like, this guy was training somewhere in, like, um,

one of those countries that border Israel. And he was doing some training exercise. And he got shot in the head by like a rogue bullet. And he was wearing a helmet. Yeah. And it knocked him off his feet,

knocked him unconscious. And it didn't penetrate the, the helmet. It just fucked up his brain. He had a really bad TBI. Yeah, yeah. So he went back to, to the US to see a psychologist and, you know, get his head checked out.

And they're like, the psychologist was like, hey, we want to, uh, we want to bring you into this other program we got going on called Stargate. He's like, what? He didn't know anything about any of this crazy. He's like this sounds like, you know, this sounds like the twilight zone. What the hell are we doing? Yeah. And they trained him on all this remote viewing stuff.

And he's like, apparently, you know, he remote viewed all kinds of stuff. He said that he also remote viewed Mars. and the moon. Just like McMonigle said. But he said he never saw any aliens. Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah.

There's this theory, too, with remote viewing that, well, when you, an important part of the training is when you do your session, afterwards, you know, my coach, he would show me what I tried to remote view. And I would judge, like, oh, how close was I? Yeah, I got the colors right. Maybe I give it a,

four out of 10, you know, of accuracy. Sometimes I'd be like, oh shit, it's like a seven or eight out of ten. Wow. But the feedback is super important. Remote viewers will constantly tell you that. And some of the thought is that maybe you're just actually seeing into the future when you see the feedback. Oh, interesting.

Right. So it's that kind of forms the loop of your future self telling you what you saw at that point, you know? Right. But then I don't. know how somebody can remote view a million years ago on Mars. Right. So I think there's still ways to do that, but I wonder if it's weaker that way because you never really get a definite answer. Like that, yes, that was the right answer. You can never verify it, right? And so maybe

that's part of why, you know, they can't just go back and definitively say, like, that guy can say there was nothing on the moon, but maybe somebody else can say like, oh, I saw something on the moon. Like, who's right? Like, you'll never know. Yeah. Could both be talking shit, but I don't know. Yeah, it sounds so correct. It also, it also, it also, it also, it also, it sounds so crazy and just so outlandish but like dude like the the wild part is when you learn that all of these people like the whole history of all the top um physicists and scientists and engineers and like the space program were all into this stuff like the occult and remote viewing and like ESP and all this stuff like jack parsons and all these people you know yeah like were they

on to something? I don't know. Joe will say that this is, you know, an old human skill that we just don't need anymore or we don't use anymore because we don't have to survive in that way. Why does he think that he has this ability? What is his story?

I think he just always kind of had a knack for intuition. He never had like an incident where he like hit his head or anything. Or maybe he did. I don't know. I don't think there was any notable. thing in his life where it suddenly became his thing. Right.

Yeah, he was just in the right place of the right time and they decided to train him, I think. Yeah. Yeah. The telepathy stuff, like the telepathy tapes is fucking insane, dude. Yeah. It is so crazy that it's even real. Yeah. You just had Dahlia on your show, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was at the Cy Games thing about a month and a half ago. And Chris and I were there. kind of to help out we spoke at it. Is that episode live yet? It's not. Okay, okay. Sorry, sorry.

But Dahlia told me. She's coming out. It's coming out any day now. Okay, cool. No, she, it's funny because after the side games where I saw Dahlia do her thing and it blew my mind, I reached out to her because I was like, I need you to teach me this. Like, can I learn this? And she believes that anybody can learn it.

Maybe it's easier in children, but then you can learn it. And so I've done a couple sessions. with her. But as I started the sessions, she was telling me that she was going out for podcasts. And I was like, oh, cool. And she said, Danes. Oh, no way. And it was the same week that you guys reached out to me. No way. Oh, that's crazy. Weird timing. Synchronicity. But yeah, she's, she's insane. I mean, did you have an amazing experience with her on the show? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She put on like a thousand blindfolds and she was able to see things. She was like, she was wearing full blindfolds all over her face to where there was no possible way she would get any shred of light

through there. And I was holding up books. Like ran, I brought a pile of books and I was holding up. She was reading the covers. Stuff she wouldn't have known. Steve was able to hold up shapes behind her head while she was wearing the blindfold facing the other way. And she was able to tell what the shapes were. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is while when we did the session via Zoom, she's like, okay, put on your blindfold. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to do this session blindfolded as best I can. And then she's like, I'm going to put on my blindfold. And I was like, well, wait, don't you need to like see me? And she said, no. She said, no. I, I don't know. I can see you.

And like, you know, obviously a big part of it is me holding up papers and trying to figure out what color they are. And she has to verify them. But if she has a blindfold. But it doesn't matter. I recorded the whole thing. She got every single one right that I was trying to see. You know, it's like confirm whether my guesses were right.

And there was even some that I had under the table that she still got right. So I don't know how you like, even if her blindfold is cheating or she compete. She can't see under my table through a Zoom call, right? she was able to even do it with cards playing cards that's when i was like well can you see a card face down on a table because if you can then that would be great uh in casinos you know and she's like oh i just need to i think i could if i trained it i was like man that's crazy yeah yeah you should train that yeah that's uh instant uh advantage yeah if there was any rules to that kind of stuff i imagine that would be like the number one rule like we're not going to let you motherfuckers

manipulate the stock market and like village of the earth based on your psychic abilities. Right, right, right. Yeah. You know, if there is some sort of like some sort of muse or like a group of pagan

gods that rule over us, I would imagine that they would like set some sort of rules around that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Did did she talk about the side games? A little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She mainly talked about her daughter. She was telling about her daughter.

Her daughter was amazing. The crazy stuff that her daughter and her daughter's friends can do, like literally read minds. And like as easy as I can read a piece of paper. They can read minds. Like it's insane. Yeah. And it's, uh, it's bizarre that not more people are talking about this. Right.

You know? Yeah. It's completely 100% verified. They like they tested this stuff like with scientists and like did it with multiple kids and like they do this thing where they also meet up together and that's like imaginary world and hang out. Yeah, I heard that. The hill or whatever. Yeah. That's insane.

What is that? I don't know. Like can you imagine your kid can read your mind everything you're thinking at all times. Yeah. I think what did Dahlia tell me? She said sometimes she has to like she'll sing songs in her head like if she doesn't want her daughter to like think. of what she's thinking. She has to like

make noise in her mind. Oh wow. Oh, that's crazy. To like mask it or something. That's funny. But yeah, the moment she went on stage, Dahlia herself,

her daughter's presentation was incredible too. But we were trying to, the competitors were doing this mind site stuff where they had to put these colored rings on the colored pegs. Right.

And nobody was really doing that well. Honestly, like the whole competition. Really? I wasn't like blown away. Like, wow. people are psychic, here they are. Were the kids there? There weren't any kids, there were kids, but not performing on stage.

Okay, okay, okay. But then she came on, and it was like, you know, Michael Jordan suddenly, and all the other people were just like kids, you know, compared to her. And she just, like, could put them on, like, she didn't even make a mistake. It looked crazy, but the whole crowd went nuts. And it was like this special moment at the competition because I think people were waiting for, like, some true psychic. feeling event and that was it she like commanded that moment it was wild have you talked to chris ramsi

about that at all does he think it's magic maybe yeah hey chris he um i don't know if i should speak for him but he he's a magician and he's uh he's seen it all you know like he can do what she can do but it's not real really yeah in the same way that he'll tell me this all the time nelson i can do what you can do with your memory but i don't have to have a good memory like he can fake it you know with his memory uh with his magic tricks you know his magic skills he can have a pre-memorized deck of cards and shuffle it you think i'm shuffling it you think he's shuffling it but he's done a million fake shuffles right um slide of hands you can force the card here and there and it looks like he's memorized crazy stuff but it's all a trick same with the blindfolds and and he even showed

one of the people who was trying to document dahlia doing the certain thing they gave him the same uh blindfold and he could do it I don't know how he did it, but he showed me books where there's all sorts of blindfolded tricks. What does he think? Does he think there's any chance that Dahlia could be faking it? Yes. He does? That's what he thinks.

Okay. Yeah. And he saw her at Contact in the Desert. He even perhaps thinks that there's a bit of suggestion when she's holding up the board to her daughter to point to. And maybe I personally think that it's real. I leave a little room always to be wrong, of course, because I don't know for sure, you know. But I do value what Chris knows. Yeah.

Seeing every sort of trick under the book and knows. But is there a way to test it if she's actually doing a trick or if it's real? According to him. Well, he wanted to do some other tests on her at the side games. Like, because she was used her, she would use her blindfold. And it's a verified blindfold. Like they are dark. It's these mind vision ones.

Oh yeah, we have a bunch of them. They're in the other room. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've put it on probably. It's like, you can't see shit. Right. But he was able to do it with that mask on.

Did he tell you how? It's a, it's a bit of yes and no. Like he's a magician. He's a good friend of mine, but he will still never tell me how certain tricks are done. But I would imagine it has to do with shifting the thing on the bridge of your nose or I've even heard of people putting certain like grease on your cheeks to like create a gap so you can kind of see if you

look at Dahlia perform she does move her head a lot yeah I know she's also looking through her windows right which I can imagine you know even when I memorize sometimes I have to like I look different places yeah she was going like this yeah but you know if somebody was trying to peek too when they probably do something like that I don't know right um but anyway so he did he was able to do a demo and the people that were testing and were like, I think he has mind sight. Chris was like, I definitely don't. I just faked that, but they were so convinced of how he did that.

They thought that he had mindset and he didn't know it. I don't think he has it. He doesn't think he has it. But he would, so he's most frustrated because I think he just wants, from a magician's standpoint where he knows all the tricks, he wants to be able to test her in ways that would eliminate eliminate that idea. Yeah. She could be using one of those ways.

Has he reached out to her? No. No, he did at the competition, but Dalia's response was mostly that she could do what he was asking, but needed to train it first, which I get. Even with me, like, I can memorize really fast, but if you, like, put me

underwater and do it, it's like, well, I've never really done it that way. Could I do it? Yes, but I wouldn't like to perform. I prefer to train it first. So I get that. But, you know, in his mind, he's like, well, if you can do it through a blindfold, then can you do it through like an opaque like sheet, you know, like of leather? Like, or how. Yeah, like for just a big like a thing right in front of your eyes. Like could it be.

Interesting. And so those things weren't able to be tested. Or what about on the side of a fucking wall? Or that, right? Like what's the thickness of the thing or the distance away? I would love for that stuff to be tested meticulously. and I don't think it has. And you'd be surprised.

Even when you say, you know, scientists have tested the shit out of the telepathy stuff, like with the memory thing, I'll use it as an example, there was this memory guy, I won't say his name, but he was a magician, mentalist, and he would claim that he could do all these memory things that were way better than anything I could do or any other top mental athlete could do. And I was so annoyed by it because it's like it devalues what we put in effort to do. And I know he's faking it, right? And he even got in with researchers at MIT and they were studying his brain.

And these researchers would come to me and be like, why can't you do that? Like, this guy can do it for real. I know it. I study the brain. I know it. And I was able to debunk like some of his examples that he was using. Like, look, here's him doing this deck of cards in seven seconds. And I was like, it's a fucking marked deck.

Like, you can even see him or you can see him fall shuffle the deck. Like he's prememorized that. And I even pulled up like a bunch of other demos that he did the same thing. It's the same order of the cards. No way. Like he was on an Ellen show years ago. It is the same order. It's this.

And it's a mnemonic stack. You can expose this guy. What's his name? Just do it. I don't need to do that anymore. Come on. He's been on Ellen. People are going to figure it out anyway.

His name is Jim Carroll. Jim Carroll. Okay. Yeah. Pull him up, Steve. You know, he's, yeah. He's, uh, it's all right. He's getting what he does.

deserves. No, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't know why people feel the need to do stuff like that, but yeah, it's, I want to try to stay out of it. Oh, well, no, I don't, clearly, right? What about Uri Geller? Have you heard of him? Yeah, yeah, sure. I've never seen, I've heard people say and David Morehouse, one of the remote viewers that was on here, told me, he was friends with Yuri Geller, and he told me he's watched him Ben Spoons. He told me not only that, he watched him walk into a random restaurant, pick up a spoon off somebody's table, pick it up and bend it with his mind. But that's the thing. He's a magician and a mentalist too. I'm not saying that he doesn't exactly. That's why it's even more confusing. You can swap out the spoons, right? Like,

and somebody who thinks they see what they know what they saw. Good old Jim Carroll. Yeah. Well, the mathematical mind. Mathematical. That's one of the greatest long term memories I've ever seen. That's the researcher that I'm talking about. Like it's so crazy. And I showed this guy, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, evidence of, of, what I just told you. He showed the MIT guy, the evidence. Yeah. And I'd never heard from him. He was so upset that I questioned him.

And that always bothered me. Because I, I, I, I, I, was Robert? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, and I, I, I truly respect Robert. And how could be a scientist? Like, that's so terrible.

That's so terrible. All I'm trying to say is it's easy to fool. people. Yeah. And you never know what people's ulterior motives are, you know? Right.

You think like someone like Dali and her daughter, like, I don't think they're really getting any like monetary gain. Well, maybe, I don't know. They're getting a lot of attention. A lot of attention. But maybe that's not even wanted.

Maybe her daughter would prefer to be a little more out of the limelight. I don't know. It seems like she's maybe not super comfortable being on that pressure. I don't know. Right. Like, but who knows? Maybe, maybe. People are very easily tricked.

People are very gullible. Yeah. Me as well. Yeah, me too. I'll tell you another example of me being fooled. This is a Bose moment. It's 10 blocks from the train to your apartment door. 10 basic, boring city blocks until the beat drops in Bose clarity.

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moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebbglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about Ebglis and visit ebbgless.com or call 1,800 LilyRX or 1,800 545-97579. There was this guy, wow. My channel on YouTube exploded because of this guy in a good way years ago because he claimed he's a guy from Nepal who claimed he could memorize books. just by doing this and like saying gibberish out loud he would almost seem like he was in speaking

in tongues he'd be like blah blithing through pages these massive books in english he doesn't speak english he's nepalese and then he would go off into a corner his associate would tell him a page number random and he would go over in the corner no cameras allowed but he would write out the the page verbatim and it would match right and so i've been in Nepal a bunch of times because I like to climb there. And one time I went there in 2021, and he reached out to me. He's like,

would you like to interview me for your YouTube channel? And I was, because I had done a couple like debunkings. Like, I don't think this is real, but I hadn't really gone into it other than saying like, oh, look at this memory demonstration. It looks kind of phony.

Yeah. This is it. Look, look. Yeah. Whoa. And so. So he's like, he's taking a mental picture of each page.

Then he's not doing anything. But that's, I think what he's, uh, trying to, to pretend. Right. So the kid on the right, you're talking about. And he reached out to you when you went there. Yeah. And I said, do you want to interview me? Yep. And I did. I went to his office. That was the first red flag. I shouldn't have gone there. He should have come to me.

Yeah. And I gave him a book that had just been published on mountaineering. He would have never, in English, he would have never had it. And he, I told him just to memorize a page, like, not even the whole book. Like, that's hard. Like, there's hundreds of words on a page, right? in the language you don't speak. And so he did it, wrote it out perfectly. Wow. And I walked away from that thing thinking like, man, I was wrong. Like, this is real.

There's something there. I posted the interview. And of course, like the comments, people were like, oh, his assistant passed, was recording and passed him to paper. And it's like, they didn't see that, but they're just like guessing what happened. But you were there while he did it though. Yeah. But it was a whole setup, you know, like,

to trick the memory guy, because if the memory guy could vouch for this guy and a full interview, like, he's set, right? Like, there's no question. And I went into it thinking, like, I am a memory guy, I've seen all the tricks. I can figure it out if this is fake or not. And I left there being like perplexed, right?

But it turns out in the video, there were things that my audience helped catch, and I further catched that was definitively showing that it was fake, that what he did was like a whole how i think the biggest there were a few you can want i'll send the link um but i think the main thing was it on your channel see if you can find it steve yeah just look up bj yeah these are some of my reactions but there's an interview is this got like a big shot in nepal he was uh he's since come crashing down um yeah there's a bunch of different

memory feats in there but um the main thing was when i gave him a piece of paper paper. You know, it had, it was like lined school paper, right, with a margin line. And I saw him start to write. I have it on video. You can zoom in and look. And he's touching the line. Like he's like starting at the, the margin line, his text in ink. Okay. And then the page that he gives me later, there's like a half inch gap consistently bound. So it's not the same page he gave me. You know? So, and the thing is that should have, like, put off flags in my mind was at one point, just for a split second, he asked me to turn around because, and I know that sounds so stupid, because like, Nelson, why would you... Turn around real quick?

Yeah. But in the moment, he was like, I'm having my divine experience. He was chanting and stuff. He's like, I can't let you see this part. Like, it's, I won't get the information. It's all like, okay. I really tried to keep my camera on him. Yeah, this was the moment.

That's the moment where he's, like, telling me, he had his assistant. He's like telling me to turn around. Oh my God. Stop. I think his assistant slided a piece of paper under the door. I was, yeah. So, so, okay, so there was like a camera in there that somebody in the other room saw and they quickly wrote it down and slid it under the door? I think she was recording because he reads it out loud.

He read it out loud. Oh, okay. And then she transcribed it because there were some funny translations like as if somebody had heard the word. Yeah. And written it wrong. They don't speak English. As a look at me. I'm like, kind of trying to.

Not fooled, huh? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so funny. I haven't watched this in so long. And the comments figured it out, huh? Yeah, yeah. So after this interview, there's like a debunking video, which is pretty. Wow.

Sometimes the comments are spot on, man. Yeah. Thank goodness for that. But yeah, it was great for my channel. I got, you know, like so many subscribers from Nepal. Paul, a great audience. Yeah. One of my best performing videos.

There's a magic, a magician. Yeah. And you know what's crazy? After this went live, or the second video, I was on a trip somewhere and I started getting messages from people in Nepal saying, RIP, BJ. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Like, we got him, you know, like his career.

But they're like, no, no, he's, he killed himself. No. And in my heart stopped. I was like, oh, no. Is this like one of these situations where like I bullied somebody? Yeah. Turns out he had posted a photo of him dead. And then 15 minutes later, somebody had taken a picture of him.

He was still alive. But he had faked it, right? Like as a, I don't know. publicity stunt. Yeah. God. So I was like, oh, my God. And that's why I don't love the bunking things anymore.

But sometimes it's necessary because, like, this guy was taking people's money in Nepal who don't know any better. And he's tapping into, like, the religious aspect of it. Information is just coming to him. and that you can learn it if you buy my book or take my course, you know? That's not cool. No. So, yeah, it was a whole thing. That's pretty funny.

And now I think he went quiet for a bit, but now I think he's back and his whole new schick is he raises people from the dead. Oh, really? So he's on to the next shift. We got to get him in here. Steve, hit him up. He'll bring his assistant and tell us to turn all the cameras off before he does his drink. Oh, my God.

I'll take a leak real quick. Quick break. We're back. All right, where were we? We're talking about BJ Shahee. B.J. Shahee. I found here's the. Oh, that's his dead photo.

Yeah, yeah. And the moments after. Yeah. Yeah. The problem is there's people like this in everything. That's right. There's fakers in literally every aspect of life. Yeah.

And every profession. Mm-hmm. And you don't know what the, well, you look at that photo. You kind of know the motive. Steve was saying a moment ago, look how, it's attention. attention craved he looks, right? Yeah. But I would like to go back and just reiterate that I think that Dahlia and her daughter are the real thing.

Really? Yeah. But, you know, we'll leave a little bit of room for skepticism. Well, what does Chris think about the whole telepathy type thing in general? I mean, obviously, you're speaking for him. But like, I'd be curious. Like, how do you fake it with kids, you know? Like, how do you have all of these kids doing these things?

Right. And confirming kind of the same. things. It's not like they've all like sat down and it's all on video on their website, isn't it? On the telepathy tape's website, didn't she videotaped like the whole thing on the like all the experiments she did? Those don't, to me, those weren't super convincing, but no. Nah, I don't know. Again, I think some stuff could be faked or just like overlooked. Yeah.

Or maybe not even purposefully fake, but just there could be some other things going on. I don't know. Yeah, there could be. Chris definitely is on. on the same kind of page as me spiritually and like remote viewing wise. Cause after I did the whole remote viewing project, that's kind of how we reconnected again is he asked me,

we were doing a podcast, just a comedy podcast that he had. I was on a show and remote viewing came up because I was telling him that crazy story. I just got involved in this weird program. And he was like, yeah, you know about remote viewing? I was like, dude, I'll teach you. And so we did a whole series on his area 52 channel where I taught him remote viewing.

He did it for a year. And so he, had crazy experiences in himself and for himself and so he's a believer um we ended up doing the monroe institute together and having crazy out-of-body experiences together well not together that sounds kind of sexual but we experienced had our own experiences separately um so he's definitely on on the page that like stuff like this can happen and has happened to him um but you know he has this lens of he knows how or can assume how fakers could fake um And there are fakers in this community because it's so easy to fake.

Yeah. And that's kind of, I think, it's feeling about Yuri Geller, you asked. You know, I think Yuri probably has some abilities, but just like I think B.J. Shah, he had some knowledge of memory techniques, but he probably saw, oh, you know, if I fake this, like, who's going to know? And then you get kind of carried away. And maybe that's what happened with Yuri Geller. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, man, I tend to believe that it's, it has. has to be real. Yeah. Just because of, you know, the telepathy tapes convinced me probably more than anything. What is this? With a balloon boy parents admit hoax? Yeah, when you brought up the question of having all these kids in on it. And that brings me back to the days when I was working at the news station.

And there was this story that popped up where these parents had created this hoax that they, that their kid was stuck in a UFO balloon or something like that. And the kids played in on it? They tried to get the kids to play on it. And immediately, because this is a news interview, live interview. So this is a live feed into their control room. And the interviewer asks, so what happened? And the kid just rats out his parents.

He just straight up, he doesn't do what his parents tell him to. And he tells them the truth. Oh, that's hilarious. So it requires participation. Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, these kids in the public, they're like, they're nonverbal autistic. Right? They're like extremely autistic.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there we know there's a correlation between people that have TBIs and like get these weird abilities. You know, like these are like that guy, David Morehouse that was in here, the remote viewer guy. Oh, that's his story. Yeah. That was David Morehouse's story how he got shot in the head by that. Oh, you were saying that. The rope bullet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. And yeah, I don't know. There's just too much evidence. There's too much evidence pointing towards it. But like I again, the weird thing is that no one else talks about you know it's like only the people on podcasts talk about it i've ever heard anyone else say anything about the telepathy tapes but even with all that size stuff you know it's very poo-poohed and there's this giggle factor to

it but if i so i usually if somebody if i'm talking about this with somebody and i say oh psychic abilities you can feel their eye back but if i say something instead like you have ever heard this feeling where you know you think about something and that like shows up or you think about somebody and they call you or you feel like somebody's looking at you staring at you like gut feeling everybody can relate to that like that's not a weird thing to talk about everybody's like oh yeah i've had when they get like goosebumps you know thinking about this one time that this thing happened so people are aware of what they won't maybe label as psychic instances but that's what it is you know um things that you can't explain you know with with modern science yeah and again it's written about

throughout history. Throughout history. You know, there's tons of ancient Greek stuff that like talks about this crap. Yeah. There was even like this idea, this ancient Greek, I forget who wrote about this. This might be another Orphic thing where like the idea is that when you're born, that's only a part of who you are. Your life is spent retrieving all of your memories. that make you you.

Like when your body is born. Oh man. Yeah. That's not all of you. All of you is already, it's already there in the ether, right? But you have to go through your life to know yourself. That's why it says on the temple of Apollo, know yourself. Oh, wow. I love that.

You know? Yeah. So like, what if you're just, you're just already there? Like say maybe this is, I don't know if it's tied into like reincarnation, but I can see how you could make a link to reincarnation, So like, a new body is born and you spend your life going through, going through your life and downloading all these new experiences and all these new memories until like you've reached the peak to where you've actually become yourself and you actually know who you are.

And maybe that was destined, predestined the whole time. Yeah. And what every life is just that journey. Yeah. Like start kind of from scratch and build it all together. Right. Maybe it's not all random. Maybe it's already.

maybe it was there already you know have you ever done like a past life regression no or spoken to anybody i've spoken to people about it but i've never done it no yeah the kids talk there's like there's a lot of kids like in that tub of the tapes the kids talk about that i had another guy in here um geoffrey kreeple talk about that he uh he's a religious scholar guy and uh he was saying that like there's more accounts of children recalling past lives than anyone else. And he says there's also commonly in their past lives, they're also males most often. Because he thinks that something to do with having the memory of a past life, you're only going to remember the most traumatic of past lives.

And he says that men historically died in the most violent traumatic ways. That makes sense. Yeah. So maybe that could be a link. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. But I've heard the thing about children having, you know, like in their new life at young

ages, like being able to sell, say information about their past life and then having it verified, like knowing, you know, the name of this person in this town that was their brother in their past life. And they can go to that town. No shit. They're still alive? I don't know if they're alive, but there was records of that person. Whoa.

Stuff like that. But again, I say this. as I've heard these anecdotes, but who knows? Maybe it's just like some of these grifters, like, it's just a story that gets kind of morphed and it's actually not true. I don't know, you know. Yeah. But I've heard stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I've heard a lot of stuff like that too. Yeah. I think there's something to it. You know? Yeah. The problem is, like, no one takes it.

It's too stigmatized for people to take seriously and actually study and like verify. Like no academic journal is going to publish that and say, yes, past lives are real. Like, we're reincarnation. psychic abilities are real. Yeah. It's just not, we're just not in a place right now. Like this is, our society is not in a place to make that reality. Not yet, no.

And there's even the psychics or people with these abilities will say that being put on the spot affects the ability, which is unfortunate because that it makes it harder to test, right? How convenient, but, but maybe it's true, you know, like you have to have these, these right intentions, the scenario, And again, as I go back to what I said earlier, that it's a very small effect and it's very slippery for us weak humans, mentally weak intuitive humans. So that any little, there's so much noise that like to actually focus in on the thing that is, the information that we're pulling in is hard to do

in a lot of settings, right? I don't know. Yeah, maybe it's not meant to be described or to be known by people who aren't experiencers. Right. You know, similar to like doing, like doing DMT. Like you have the experience. It's a it's a personal experience that it's a it's a 64-bit experience that you can't communicate like trying to put it into words is like putting something that's 64-bit into two-bit right. Like there's no way you can actually articulate what happened

in words. Did you maybe it's maybe it's by design maybe that's right. Did you so when you came out of your trips, uh, was it like? instantly you like were so aware of what just happened but then when you like try to vocalize it or write it down it just like fails your words your words failure right yeah it's hard to just you feel like you have all the answers suddenly and then it just like you don't know what you do because you can't express it the first time i did it was like the closest thing i could possibly imagine to what dying is because it was like it was like my soul shuttling through light arteries and i was disconnected from everything that on earth like because i was thinking about wow like my house my job my family all of that is i'm disconnected from it all now and i'm like fucking teleporting to another world that's what i felt like wow um that was the first time okay second time was way different but um did you but i was i was able to talk i was able to explain that i was able to explain everything that was happening like right immediately afterwards it was very fresh but it faded after a while it faded pretty quickly

Yeah. I had a similar. I never like blasted off as people talk about, but I was in this waiting room place. And I definitely had some enlightening experiences. But it was hard to, and it's still hard to like fully explain what I felt in human words. Yeah. You know, it does something to your brain. I think it makes you smarter. I think so too. Yeah. Most people I talk to that I don't know. And again, this could just be some sort of like, people who are habitual like DMT gurus or whatever they have this Messiah effect they have this like aura to themselves where they think that they are like more enlightened than you are you know what I mean

they have this all enlightened like maybe that's part of it but in general I feel like the most people I've talked to that that experience that do psychedelics and that have experienced them have a better grip of of words and ideas and abstract ideas and conveying them and are more open-minded but you know I don't know what came first that or the psychedelics right like it could just be that's the type of person that would be open to trying psychedelics in the first place true yeah I was gonna say like Andrew Gallimore has like I think he speaks so well about that stuff like

He uses the right words. You don't think so? I think so too. Oh, okay. No, no. I think the accent probably helps him out. Makes him sound smart. Yeah, yeah.

But no, he's super smart. Yeah, he's very, very smart guy. Very, very articulate dude. Yeah. But he's also a brain scientist. True, right. Yeah. He wasn't a brain scientist is because he...

Right. Let's compare him to a brain scientist who doesn't do DMT and see how they stack up against each other. Yeah. I want to, at some point, I don't know when. I have to get my kids out of the house, but I would like to try a DMT while memorizing a deck of cards or something.

Even if I could, I don't know. You wouldn't want to touch a deck of cards. You'd be like, fuck this. I'm out of here. I know, like, starting it, I'm like, that's my intention, but probably, you know, I'm like, what is the meaning of this? Like, why would I? But I wonder, like, how intense,

if I could even memorize a deck of cards, if it would be easier to, like, I think it would be harder to do the task because I'd probably find it meaningless or something. Yeah. Or so distracted by other things. But if I could actually sit down to get the memory process going,

if that process would be enhanced in any way. My inkling is that it wouldn't be a good experiment. But I do think that over time, people have suggested this that if I did psychedelics more, that I would actually get better at memorizing afterwards. Like it would open up my brain. What do you think about that? I don't know.

I think I've done pretty good for myself in terms of enhancing my memory. through normal means, but yeah, I definitely think there's something to psychedelics like remapping your brain. And I could see that helping with memory in general just because you'd have maybe more information to kind of pull on when making associations. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's definitely a big connection with those kinds of drugs and the Greeks. I think they were definitely experimenting with that stuff a lot more than like cultures are today.

Does it go that far back? Yeah, I think it goes back pretty, pretty damn far. Definitely goes back into ancient Greek. I mean, you have, you have like the Illucinian mysteries and stuff like that where they were drinking psychedelic wine and they were doing chance and music and like ritual, religious stuff where like there's something that happens. I think when you combine. these psychoactive drugs with

with groups of people that are like dancing and and engaging in like rights and rituals and there's music involved and there's fucking orgies involved like imagine what kind of like transcendent shit that would happen in a setting like that and that stuff wasn't I mean the Greeks were sickos dude

they were like they were like obsessed with you know all kinds of crazy stuff And a lot of those religious pagan, a lot of those like pagan rituals that they were doing were like very involved with sex, drugs, and music. So there's probably a connection with all three of them where you can fucking attain ultimate enlightenment, you know? Probably, yeah.

And I think that probably had something to do with just the depth of that culture, like the philosophical intellectual height of the Greeks, you know, not just with their language, but I think it probably had, I think the drugs probably had quite a bit to do with that. For sure. I don't think I've ever thought about that or heard that that Greeks were doing psychedelics. That's crazy. I'm not surprised, but yeah. What is the psychedelic wine? Just like there was a, allegedly they were taking, there's a lot of people who, a lot of, like, classical scholars and stuff like that who's claimed that they were drinking wine spiked with ergot,

which is a fungus, like a fungus that grows off of wheat. It's a certain alkaloid of a fungus and it's called ergot. And they think that that was in the wine they were drinking. Okay. And that was creating some sort of a psychedelic experience that they were, and that was like, there was a lot of religious rights. And that's like some people that, some people claim that that's like the foundation of religion was this type of stuff. Because imagine if you're living 2000, 3,000 years ago and you're experiencing something like DMT, like you're going to think that's God. Oh, dude. You're going to think you're going to heaven and seeing God.

Exactly. Yeah. That's wild. So, yeah, I don't know. Was that the foundation of religions? Who knows? But I could see, I could see how you can make the case for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. I was going to suggest, I don't know if you do this kind of thing on your show, but do you want to try a remote viewing session? Like, you do it? Yeah, like right now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I don't know how it will come out, but we can try it. Yeah. You just need a piece of paper and a pen. You can even do it on your tablet, I think. But so I will choose a photo. Okay. And I'll come up with some like tax number.

And then I'll kind of guide you through. I don't want to guide too much because I don't want it to seem like I'm guiding you to the answer or something. But I'll try to come up with a. just like framework of what you should try to visualize and see what comes out. Give me a second here to find something. This is going to be fun. You've never done something like this? Never tried it.

Remember when David Morehouse was showing us the Titanic thing, Steve, where he was pulling up the like all the remote points of the Titanic like on the ship and people remote viewing the Titanic sinking. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was pretty nuts. Yeah. Like people could like pick. they were picking points in time for people to go back to and like remote view like what was

happening. Cool. On like like major major historical events, right? Like the Titanic. Like the idea that there's like some sort of like major events like that, there's some sort of like, again, I don't even have the words to describe this, but like maybe there's more of a connection to those events because there's so many people involved. And like that is somehow stronger.

It's easier to tap into big events like that. Yeah, there's some theories behind that. There's a physicist Ed May who's got some really cool ideas on this. But his thought is that things that are have a lot of entropy tend to be easier to remote view. So think of things like natural disasters or explosions or like a lot of the CIA programs would be trying to find like a down plane or some kind of like silo with nuclear missiles and stuff like that. Yeah. Apparently those are like hot spots. It's like monogle would say that.

So that's interesting because entropy is just kind of like essentially the change of information over time. Right. So maybe it all goes back to just like the universe being pure information, right? Everything is out there back in time, forwards in time. Everything is just in this, like I said, substrate, substrate of something with all this information. And you can just tap in, right? Well, that's one of like the laws of the universe, right? Yeah.

That were bound by entropy. Yeah. Yeah, like entropy is always increasing. Always increasing, right. But there are things that have higher entropy. Like, I guess if you have a cup, right, low entropy, but when it shatters, like, it's entropy increases. This thing cannot be put back together.

Right. It's just, like, become more in disarray, right? So things like that that are heightened. And maybe that kind of plays into these natural disasters or, you know, something where there's some intensity behind. Maybe trauma too. Trauma too. Trauma's very tied to that.

Yeah. Yeah. And it could be also like a like a, an emotional entropy too. Like all these humans together like experiencing this kind of change. And death and disaster. Maybe that's just like a hotspot for in this timeline of events to like hone in on. Yeah. 9-11.

There's this crazy. I think this was in a Dean Radin book where. It's like a traffic jam of like consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. And there's like these spikes, right, where certain things happen. You know, before 9-11, wasn't there like the manifest of all the planes were like notoriously, or not notoriously, weirdly empty compared to normal days?

Like there were a lot of, like the planes were emptier than the. I didn't know that. Insinuating that maybe a lot of people had a feeling, a gut feeling. Like whether it meant they like stayed in bed a little while. longer and dilly dally didn't miss the flight or they purposely were like I'm not gonna there we go the four hijacked planes up on September 11 2001 were all under booked and flew with passenger numbers well below their capacity well it could have been because of the terrorist it shows the fight specifically because of the lower passenger loads would make it easier

right well how would they know uh maybe they couldn't maybe there's a way they could know yeah they book it last minute i think so the the Boeing 767 had a capacity had a capacity of 158 passengers but was carrying only 81 wow yeah that's an empty plane that's significantly low you never think about that right you always kind of think of these packed planes i've never been on a flight that's well they were all they were also all cross-country flights too which is why they they picked them they picked cross-country flights because they knew they'd have to have full tanks yeah a lot fuel right crazy allegedly yeah anyways all right so I have a a random number here that I generated with Google random number generator for my task number okay so I have an image

chosen so I've made your head no no that I've chosen it's it's I'll show it to you after we do this okay I mean it's on my phone I saved that as a photo I said this is going to be the photo that I'm showing Danny after our session okay so what you'll do and actually maybe I should just give another piece of paper. I'll just show you an example. Just give me a writing device. So I'll write down. I'm just going to do an example. One, two, three, four, five, six. And then as soon as I'm done writing this, I'll just put my hand here and whatever comes out, comes out. Okay. And I'll kind of like, and I want you to try to do this, like, hover your finger over this and write two things, okay? Kind of a feeling.

feeling you get from it, whatever you want to describe, and then a gestalt. And we'll call that, just think of it as like a category. I don't want to front load you here, but just think of just a general, don't even try to think what would Nelson choose. Just think of like, what am I feeling? Right? Don't try to game it. And it's hard to do because you're going to inevitably think like, oh, Nelson sat down and

chose a photo. What did he think of? Was it random? Did he think what I was going to think? And that's why he chose it. Don't think of that. Just try to feel like, oh, it's a. this like a general theme general theme it doesn't even have to be right like this is just to get things

going then once you just put that out um then i want you to start describing can you made an example of like what that would be like a theme sure um and we'll maybe keep it in in general genres here um like it could be a structure uh could be a life form could be uh a landscape could be you know energy whatever something like that okay so once you do that uh then i want you do that uh then i want to want you to describe colors, intuit what you feel, sounds, smells, tastes even, there could be nothing, but try it tastes, dimensions, right, like shapes of things,

movement, temperatures, stuff like that, right? Sounds, I already said that. Okay, and then once that's done, a sketch, just whatever, it doesn't even have to match, necessarily what you're right here, but just whatever your hand decides, whatever's coming to mind. There's a lot of that. It could just be scribble. Yeah, but with a little, not so scribbly as this, but maybe try to a little bit more attention to it. Okay. Yeah. And then when you're done, just try right, and that's it. And that's it. And, and like, signify it through it again when I do

it. Yeah, yeah, I'll guide you a little bit. Okay. All right. So, um, and maybe make your paper vertical. Just have a little more room. Okay. So the number is five, five, six, seven, eight four. And go dry your ideogram. And now, hover your hand over it and really just try to tap in and think of a feeling it gives you. And then a general category. Is it just stalled?

A feeling that it gives me. Okay. All right, now colors. Write down colors that come into mind. I feel like I have something popped into my head that gave me like an idea of what it could be and now I'm kind of like following that. If you get one of those,

that's called an AOL, an analytical overlay. So on the side, write AOL, and name the thing that you're thinking of. Okay. Okay. Put your pen down. Okay. Just take a beat.

The point of that is to like get it out of your head because it's easy to get stuck on a thing and be like, that's what it is. I'm going to describe it now. And now everything I'm saying is like reinforcing it. Right. And so now the idea is to kind of let that go and go back and just try to see what comes through the stream again. So you can continue.

Just write anything. Yeah, so you know, taste, smells, sounds, temperature. What's the temperature? You know, is it, yeah. It's supposed to be like looking at it? And not even, just the feeling that comes, like, if you were to write down any color right now, like, you're going to write something down. Where does that come from? It's an intuitive thing.

Like, it came from somewhere. That's kind of the idea here is that, like, if you're trying just to write, like, freehand what comes out, like something will come out. Right. right from somewhere um and the more mindless it is like the more like where did it come from right right okay okay you do your sketch oh do a little sketch now another sketch yeah this one was just like an ideogram we call but then the next one will be more like an intentful sketch right you can piece together some of the information that you have if it makes sense okay but now you're actually trying to draw something you know not just a scribble yeah it doesn't have to be like an amazing piece of

art just okay all right and just right end somewhere on the bottom bottom okay walla all right let's see what you got it's like a bird all right and what do you have you have um so you had life form life form animal yeah then your colors you had orange white had walking smelling predator a well was your bird and what does it say here uh what's that cool cold cold cold red evil uh good vision uh good vision okay I don't know why. I don't know why. So you clearly had like a, you went down a rabbit hole. A rabbit hole.

This is what it was. Okay, not even close. How would you rate that on a scale of one to ten? Zero. Zero. You know, and this is, this happens often. Yeah. And it's hard, like to pull information in without like getting fixated on a thing.

And even when you do get fixated on the thing, how do you let that go and just like focus on the stream? Right. And sometimes I've done this with people and they have like insane sessions where they're like they drew the thing or like a lot of components matched. And I've had other ones that just don't quite, you know. Or you look at it and you're kind of like, well, you know, you said white and orange. Well, I mean, the general colors there. Oh, that's true. Right and orange.

Yeah, that's true. Is that something? Interesting. You drew somewhat of a beak there. Is that maybe like kind of what, like if you were tapping into this at all. you know but then on the flip side is this just like us trying to fit this exactly you know yeah and that's where like in a session like this i really wouldn't give much to it um but there's been sessions where you know i've drawn the fucking thing and it's like that wasn't a guess you know

it was the thing uh-huh let's try it the other way well i was gonna say i'll try one i've never done it like on the spot but it should be fair that i try it as well um so yeah you choose a number or you choose a picture and then find some like six digit number to give me as a task number. Steve, do you have any paper? That's why when there's the best remote viewing projects are set up so that they're like blind, double blind. You know, that's the best. When people are like, well, can you remote view my future? You know, that's that's hard to do because now I suddenly, I mean, I don't know much about you, but I know something about you and I like, you know, I know you live here.

And like, I can already, I already have it front loaded with information. So it's not biased at all. But then the question is like, well, if you're psychic, you're psychic. Like, can't you, why are there all these limitations, you know? I don't know the answer to that. Hand me the pen when you're. Oh, yeah. I got the picture, but there's no number associated with it.

That's fine. You can just make up a number. Like, write a six digit number on the paper that you're deciding is going to represent this photo okay let me see your pen okay okay all right give it back let me just uh give me that number the number is 767 yeah 767 114 1 1 1 1 4 okay so I'm do it a little different I'd write my name at the top but the date what is it October 16 2025 all right no 6 767 114 okay all right he wrote it down on the piece of paper now he's just scribbling shit yeah on the paper he's tapping into the muse right now all right all right this is stuff that i got okay before you

show me i'll just say what i got and it's again i haven't done this in a while it could be a total whiff but that's that's the idea and and you know i'm sure david morehouse does this way more formally. Here you're talking on Mike. Oh, sorry. Yep. Yeah. But this is kind of the shorthand version that I do. I don't do it much anymore.

Okay. I do it in some cases just to like see if I still have it. And there was a time when I would do this every day. Chris would do it as well every day. We were training it and we would get better at it. Right. It's one of these skills, just like memory where you get better at it. There's actually a phenomenon with it where at the beginning you have insane hits,

like really good sessions. And then there's like a fall. off. I don't know if it's because you like over think, start to overthink it or something. Right. Right. This false sense of confidence. But then through practice, you can get back up to better. Um, anyways, I'll stop delaying here. All right. So some of the colors here were just, I don't necessarily do it in order and colors, sound, smells like that. Right. But I have like black, green, dark, uh, green, leafy, jungly, wet, damp, rain overhang. I started to write trees here. Um, Because I had an AOL there, but I wrote that down.

Then reaching up, closed, overarching, bleak, dreary, brown. I wrote down, waking, evil, breaking through, flaky. And then I started to try to hone in on some other things here. Filled, damp, evil, low light, empty. It started like, it's just like a very dark kind of, I don't know, seeing whole tunnel, guided path, black, brown, green, dark shades. That's kind of what I got. And then my sketch, you know, it's not much, but I had some kind of like pathway through something with some like vertical elements to it with some kind of like roof overhang there.

I don't know. What do you got? Your, your descriptions were pretty spot on. That's what it is. Oh, interesting. Okay. Let's see. It's a very dark, dreary, dark green, brown black scene of two crows floating on like a brown suitcase type chest in the ocean.

in the ocean yeah i definitely picked up on the the the dreary the wet yeah um the overhang being the clouds perhaps my sketch was not on par at all um but uh yeah but your descriptive words were very very close yeah and so yeah so take that with you see this on the camera steve yeah hold it up uh for your camera just poke it right at your camera yeah that's nuts crazy right okay so if I were to grade that, I'd probably say, I don't know, like a four or five out of ten, four point five out of ten. Yeah, dude. But you, you as someone watching that felt like I tapped in on something, maybe? Yeah.

Yeah. And so sometimes it's like that where you get elements. Mm-hmm. And this, again, this was like back of the napkin version of it. There's many steps, like, as you get deeper, that you start with this. And that's like, like, flirting with the signal. You know, you get pieces of it. There's noise.

you get pieces of it and then you like go bit by bit down certain rabbit holes and pull out more information and by the end of it you can build something a lot more detailed and you know it even sounds like i was really tapping into like this foresty thing yeah even though i because i started with the wet damp thing and that was kind of correct yeah wet damp yeah it was in the water yeah um and so maybe i went too far down the logical rabbit hole my brain was telling me to was that oh it's like a jungly forest with trees and so i wrote down trees try to deal with that and then you try to get back and try to reset that's hard though like I'm not the best at this but pro remote viewers can do that and we'll come up with some really

detailed information it's also interesting that mine was about a bird and like an evil dude yeah maybe you even like maybe I saw the future you saw your own shit that can happen too it's called displacement where you're like memorize oh not memorizing uh remote viewing the next thing or the the thing before like yeah you know Cause like maybe you got the signal, but you were like off a channel, you know? Right, right, right. Maybe I was seeing the future.

Yeah. Dude, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. Because what else did you write here? I mean, uh, life form animal. Orange, white, no. Yeah, no orange or white. Um, but even still, the bird is kind of interesting.

Yeah, yeah, the bird was interesting. I don't know why. Cause I got, I think I got the bird thing from that, that I drew like a beak there. Oh, interesting. And that kind of got stuck on that, it looked like an eye and a beak. Yeah, yeah.

Um, I think that all this is, And there's different protocols that different camps of the original remote remote viewers that will do it slightly different. Mm-hmm. I think all you're doing is you're trying to quiet the logical mind. Yeah. That's gonna just like try to make meaning out of shit. Yeah.

Because when you silence that, that's when you, you know, you're, you quiet the intellect, your intuition raises. And that's what this is all trying to do. You know, whether I write my name in the corner, you know, focus on the number. Like it's always for me to just like blank out in a way. in a way and just listen to what is just naturally coming to me without thinking. Right. The better you can do that, I think the better you can-

To quiet your mind. Yeah, which sounds so opposite. You're trying to like listen to your mind at the same time, you know? Yeah. Or listen to a signal that's coming into your mind, right? Like to completely shut out the, shut down like the analytical thinking mind and just like become a blank, turn your mind to like a blank canvas to receive something else is there.

Because that's all we do day in, day out, as we listen to our analytical mind. We're just always trying to make sense out of stuff, trying to logically deduce this from that and think things through. But, you know, listening to our gut and our intuition, there's a lot of value and insight there. And I think that's where this stuff comes through. Yeah, dude. That's super interesting. Yeah. Are there any other, like, memory champions or memory competitors that are into this stuff like you are?

There was another memory champion, uh, who. who was recruited on that project. Oh, okay. But I won't name it because he's, I don't think he believes it in it. He was really good too, which is funny. Really? He just thought it was all bullshit.

Really? And he was just like, oh, the guy was setting it up and it's all chance and just bias, you know, like, yeah. I'm creating my own experience. Anyways, so I won't say his name, but he was into it. And then there is another,

the other US memory champion, after I stopped, John Graham, he's separately gotten into this stuff as well. And we discovered that a couple years ago. And we're like, you're into it too? Have you ever heard of I, Isok Bentov? No.

There's a, he was a, I think he was an engineer or a mathematician who came up with the, this astral projection process. And he called it, It was called the gateway process. And there was a whole CIA, classified CIA program on this, on this astro projection.

It was called the gateway program. You're not confusing it with the gateway experience at Monroe Institute? Yes, the same thing, I think. Okay. I mean, that was by Robert Monroe. Well, this was somehow tied to it. Was it? Yeah, yeah, he offered,

one of his books was stalking the wild pendulum. I've seen the cover of that. an incredible video, Steve, if you can find it. Of him, basically he's on like a talk show. Just search for like Eatsok, Bentov talk show interview where he's explaining this bell, this bell curve of human consciousness. Oh, interesting. And he was basically saying that like on the two ends of the bell curve, you have like

really, really dumb people. Then you have like really, really smart people on like the top. far end of the bell curve. The middle of the bell curve is like average intelligence. And then you have on the very far end of the bell. Yeah, this is it. Here, put the headphones on so you can hear this. This is amazing.

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Watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on TNT, TBS, True TV and HBO Max. The repository of information that we gather during life time. Physical bodies are here, another physical body, another physical body, and this is Joe and this is Jim and this is Sarah, etc. Now clearly on the physical level, yeah. Now on this physical level, we are separate. You sit there and I sit here and we're all separate. Now let's draw another level.

This level is slightly higher and let's call this the level of the soul, yeah? Well, there will be some mingling here. Let's draw this person as extending to practically infinity this way. Now look what happens. At the physical level, we are separate. We're separate, and there's this much distance between us. Let's say that on the soul level, this person extends this much, and the other person gets slightly mixed in with him.

That is, the souls are in a way in touch with each other. Okay, they overlap these two minds. Now, let's go now to a higher level, and let's call this, say, the level of the higher self, which is kind of a boss of that soul. Uh, there what we find is that this fellow's higher self extends this much and the other fellows extends this much. There is more overlap between them. Right.

On the very highest level, which is a high spiritual level, we are basically overlapping completely. Mm-hmm. Everybody is overlapping, everybody else. In other words, everything and everyone is everywhere. In other words, we've become omnipresent. This is a state of highly spiritual perfected beings, or gods, you may call. Okay?

Okay, and so that we exist on all of those. Fast forward to the bell curve part. I'm totally into this. It's probably before this. Different clip, maybe. It's the same interview, but it is a different clip where you're showing a bell curve. Yeah, I was trying to. find it. I wasn't sure if that was it.

I know what you're talking about. I can't see. Scrub through this. You'll see it. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Love that explanation though. Yeah, no. Isn't it great? No, it's not going to be this video. Visualize it.

Go to X. Oh, wait. Oh, no. That was the same thing. Okay, that's enough of that. Okay, turn the way, wait, wait, there it is. There it is. There it is. Right off the top. Yeah, watch that.

Thousands of people in it. This is the first. But don't worry, it's not very scientifically. Let me draw what is called a bell curve, which looks somehow like this. It's being used in describing random events. And the way this works is the following, that if we assume now, let's take a following situation. Take a little town that has maybe a thousand people in it. And we have this great desire to find out what the average height of people in this town

is and therefore we go out with the yardstick and start measuring these people. Well, we find that a very small, very few number of people will be, say, three feet tall, and a very, very few of them will be maybe seven or eight feet tall. The bulk of the population will be right somewhere here. That is the average or mean height of these people would be about five feet and six or eight inches. or eight inches or something like this. Okay. So what we find here is that this down here gives up a good picture of where most of the population

is, that is what typifies population. We can use this diagram also describe evolution. The bulk of the population today is this intelligent, moralizing intelligent biped and with a vertical side. with a vertical spine and who pushes the buttons on TV and drives a car, etc., etc. Now there is some back throw, that is there are some people here in this area, very few people who are still guerrilla-like. That is your hair.

They beat their chest when they see their neighbors and a few other things. And then we have other people who are here in this corner, very few of them, who are very highly develop because we say that evolution is now pushing mankind in this direction away from the gorilla types towards the very highly evolved people. This point we're here. What's going to happen maybe a million years from now, half million years from now? This curve is going to shift. It's going to shift like this. That is the bulk of the population will be very, very highly evolved. We have gone away altogether from the gorilla types, no more gorilla. And what we have here now is the average man is now the retarded person in evolutionary terms

The bulk of the population is extremely very very highly evolved and the cutting edge of evolution here These are very very highly evolved people. We can't even imagine what kind of person that will be He may not have a physical body at all the habitats to speak of this group here well you just go out and you find them they're all over the place the habitat of this group here what do you think what do you think you find these people here I I suspect you would find them in universities you'd find the you know the people who are very bright people who are in the leading edge of professions that is an intellectual thing well I suggest that you find them in mental hospitals in

not houses the reason for that is that These people, they live in a different reality, in a reality which is very changed, and few of them are adapted to live in this reality, so naturally they can't function very well. So the only safe place, only good place for them, would be the mental hospital unless they can integrate their different view of reality with their daily lives. If they can integrate it, then we have people like Newton, like Darwin, like, like, like, they've got a day. These are the so-called genius.

The thing that... How crazy is that, man. That's cool. I love that. Pretty wild. That's awesome. And such a good demonstration of that. Yeah.

So he was the one that worked on that whole, that whole, I think it was, yeah, part of the Monroe Institute thing, which the gateway, the gateway program. Can you check that, Steve? I didn't know that. just that's just type in his name yeah type in uh etec bentov robert monroe have you considered going to the minro institute um you should i would love to i don't still have that much time um i would love to do it i think they've invited me to come up there but they both contributed awesome i didn't know that cool yeah no i've seen they don't they've done some they're doing like crazy stuff man still they're still doing all kinds of crazy stuff and experiments and you know they

they have the people that go out there they can see like orbs in the sky and yeah kinds of wild stuff yeah they were at the the side games oh where they really yeah and uh the first night we all went out to sky watch with them and it was overcast and so we were like eh and and chris was there too he um he had gotten the contact of somebody who was there who was part of some uh of the skywatcher program you know about these these guys uh uh going out trying to summon or or or UAPs and documenting it and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was one of the, what do they call them,

the psionics, psionic assets or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like, come to our, I've got an Airbnb, let's all lay out on the grass and try to summon our own orbs. So we tried that, nothing happened. But it was cool experience, very relaxing. We had some like meditative thing going on. It was cool.

But then they did it the second night. I decided to go out to have a drink with Chris, and we missed the orbs apparently. Really? Yeah. Apparently everybody said, saw stuff and they were like, oh my God, it was insane. And I was like, oh, man.

Me and Steve got to see some orbs one day. We had a gentleman on the podcast, Chris Bledsoe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the bloodsos were there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we had him and his daughter came on the podcast. And his wife also came. She wasn't on the show, but she came with them.

And it was, I think it was actually on his birthday, funnily enough. Chris or his son, Ryan? Chris. Chris, okay. And I took him out to dinner the night before. hand. We went out to dinner. And I just picked a random Mexican restaurant on the beach or across the street. And after we ate dinner, we walked across the street and Steve brought his video camera. And he's like, yeah, I'll try to summon the orbs. He's like, usually it's only in like very

remote places where there's not a lot of traffic or not a lot of like civilization around. Yeah. Or lights. Right. And the beach was a little bit busy. It was like close to spring break. Lots of tourists around big hotels and stuff like that. Lots of air traffic. There was lots of planes flying from over the Gulf landing in Tampa airport. And him and his daughter basically sat in the beach and like prayed to the sky for like two hours. And we were sitting there. Nothing was happening.

There was lots of planes flying over. You could tell because the planes had like the starboard and the port lights on them. And they had like a flashing sort of like guidance light on them. Yeah. And then after two hours, we saw a crazy orb come up out of the ocean. and we he had these um what did he have steve he had some sort of special it was a it was a a low light sensitivity camera and i kept i have that video right here yeah so yeah so i keep it on my desktop because so you couldn't see this with a naked eye okay oh wait you could you could

you could right i couldn't capture it with my camera because i was at f like five six okay but uh but his camera could capture it and that's these little red things right here no is that right you'll see the planes fly in this direction. Yeah. And then the orbs will come up. And then so like, um, so we're using this like the cyan,

I don't forget what the name of it. Well, I want to say it was called like a psionic, uh, binoculars that makes you see super low light. Um, and you can see any, like any kind of like faint light would be amplified in those binoculars.

And I was using that to see it. And, uh, sure enough, this happened. And I say this as like, uh, like, uh,

like, caveat to this is I've never seen anything like this before my life, but I've also never stared to the sky for two hours uninterrupted in my life. Right. So go ahead and play it. One more time. So that's a plane up there flashing, but watch that. Oh, there's something right on the water, right on the water.

So that's just the horizon of the ocean? Thank you. Thank you. If you could flash for us and I'm getting it. Right there. Now it starts going to the right. It's still in the camera. Another one pops up right above it.

She's the one up there going left now. Oh shit. And the other one disappears. So you can see the plane up here and then this thing is clearly getting brighter and then dims away. It's very bright. Thank you. What is that? Watch it goes away.

Oh, you see it? It's right there. You see it? That is an orb. That is definitely an orb. I'm tracking it here. Do you want to look? Yeah.

there's no land out there's no land a flare can't do that right yeah no i can't flare can't wouldn't do that but the one watch the one come off the horizon again that was crazy how it just came up out of the we did that one right there watch it's like a rising sun look at oh wild there's something right on the water and could you see that with your eyes i don't remember i was i was looking through the goggles yeah i could see it if you could flash for us and it starts going to the right I'm getting it right there it's still in the camera

it just fizzles out another one appears crazy thank you see the one out there flashing is a plane yeah that's great for reference here someone needs to look through this it's very bright thank you

oh you see it it's right there you see it yeah and they were like saying thank you to them like they think they're spirit They think they're like angelic beings or something. But like, I don't know what it was. I don't know how you can explain that away. Right.

I was gonna say it. So you see that, you have that experience and Danny goes home and thinks what? To my mind, I was racking my mind for months after that. Yeah. For I was like, yeah, it fucked me up for a while after that, trying to, trying to rationalize what the hell that was. And have you spent time looking at the sky since and had anything? In my backyard. Yeah.

I haven't like gone out anywhere like to like a remote. area and tried to do that. Or stared at the sky that much. But yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the hell it was. There was also a weird shooting star that like went over my head on the beach that night. Like was like very low like a shooting star like like maybe a hundred feet above my head that happened.

Oh, wow. But I don't know. I mean, I know that he he literally goes out and like films these things and post them on his Instagram all the time. Yeah. No. It's just one after the other. I've seen it.

Yeah. So I have no idea. I have no idea. It's definitely something. Yeah. Like did he get somebody to go out on a boat and like send a like a Chinese lantern off the boat maybe and like remote control it somehow? Like a drone maybe. But that would have been a lot of work.

A lot of work just for convincing you. Yeah. Yeah, dude. It's bizarre. I have no idea what it was. But I know it was definitely something. Yeah. That was one of the thoughts when I missed the one, the demo that or the experience that people had at the side games.

it's like did they set something up like it would have been the great of the best event to to have something happen you know all these people are there but like why they're there they're such genuine people too like yeah uh the weird thing about the weird thing about people like like chris which makes me question everything is that he has all of these like military intelligence people that are like visiting him, encouraging him that like, yes, this is biblical shit. Okay. Like, why? Why do you have people in military and in the intelligence telling you this and helping

reinforce your beliefs in what this is? Yeah. That's my question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because those folks are not generally known for telling the truth. Sure. Yeah, yeah. That's true.

Yeah, I don't know. Interesting. So, but it seems like that that whole, that whole world, that whole UFO world is just like is so deeply intertwined with those with those kinds of that like military intelligence world and the government stuff where it's just like, I don't know. I've, I've watched you in some of your interviews and I feel like, you're probably like me where some days you're like, yeah, this is real. Yeah. And then some days you're just like, what is this crock of shit that this person is telling me? You know, like there's no way that's, you know, like you fluctuate. And even with the remote viewing stuff, sometimes I'm like, wow, there's really, like I get goosebumps.

It's so real. And then some days I'm like, no, this isn't, no. Like, what is this? Like, what am I mean? You know, I don't know. Yeah. It's such an enigma still. Yeah, dude.

It's bizarre. Yeah. But, dude, thank you for coming and doing this, Nelson. This has been fucking fascinating. Yeah. Where can people find out more, find more your work or your YouTube channel, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. You can start just my website, nelsondelis.com.

You can find my YouTube channel with that name. It's memory techniques and any brain abilities that you can teach yourself. And you have a couple books out on memory. I have a new one coming out next spring about genius skills that you can teach yourself. And remote viewing is in there. Oh, cool. Some other mental math and memory and speed reading and all that stuff is in there. Okay.

There's your website. Yeah. Fantastic. What do you use the earmuffs? for oh it's like uh just to block out distractions okay there's no music in there it's just uh sound deafening oh okay i're done sensory deprivation tank no never really have you no but that probably would i wonder if that would enhance i it's not like it uses in water right so yeah you float in like salt water so there's like no you don't feel anything yeah yeah yeah there you go that's my channel um i post

most of my content on there it's a mix of stuff some fun some more serious some interview sometimes some silly but all memory or brain related amazing bro yeah well thanks again we'll link everything below cool dude yeah thanks so much for i appreciate your time yeah thank you all right good night world