Danny Jones Podcast - #352 - NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic | Charles Duke & Bart Sibrel

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Starting point is 00:00:36 LG appliances, so much more. Make life easier with LG. See the latest models and savings now at LG.com. All right, gentlemen, thank you both for being here, Mr. Charlie Duke. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you very much. Bart Sibrell. Thanks again for traveling halfway across the world to come here and hang out with me and Charlie Duke.

Starting point is 00:01:05 to start this thing off, I want to basically introduce both you guys. Charlie, you are an Apollo astronaut, one of the last four surviving Apollo astronauts, the 10th man to walk on the moon on the Apollo 16 moon landing mission. And Bart, you are the world's leaning proponent in the moon landing hoax hypothesis, I'll call it. And you've made, you spent, this has been your life's work, basically, proving that, or trying to make the case that the Apollo moon landing program was a American propaganda campaign during the Cold War. And it was all filmed on a set and they never actually went to the moon. So does that, does that sum it up pretty well? Pretty much.

Starting point is 00:01:55 Half of my life anyway. The first half, I believe they went to the moon. So, obviously, like the last time you and I talked, we thought it would be great. a great idea to have you debate somebody on this. I don't know if have you ever done a debate on this with anybody? No, to me, that would be like debating if the sky is blue. It's blue and they did fake the moon landing. I bet my life on it. Now, a little bit close. Pull your mic a little closer. So the people normally they propose to debate me are victims of the deception, which I have no interest in beating up a, you know, someone who's a victim. I said find somebody who's a perpetrator,

Starting point is 00:02:34 either one of the astronauts or a NASA administrator. And you did. Here he is. Here I am. So Charlie Duke, could you please give us a little background in your history and how you got involved in the Apollo program in the beginning? I was a fighter pilot in the Air Force. Went to MIT, got a master's degree and graduated 64.

Starting point is 00:02:58 I went to test pilot school and graduated 65. summer 65. And I'd met some astronauts that had come to MIT. They had to contract to build the Apollo guidance and navigation system, and I was working on that system. And all Gungo guys, and so I decided to take their advice, go to test pilot school, and maybe have a chance at Space Program. A couple of months after I graduated from Test Pilot School in the summer of 65, NASA had another call for astronauts and four of us at Edwards applied and we all got accepted. So and it would be May or so of 1966 we went to Houston and started working on Apollo. So during this conversation, I want to do some, I want to take some time to do some back and forth on some of the cases Bart has made in his documentary.

Starting point is 00:04:02 And, but before we do that, I want to spend some time going through your personal story and your first-hand account on the Apollo missions. Does that sound good to you? Okay. So at what eight, how old were you when you first learned about the U.S. government gearing up to go into space and the whole space race and all this stuff? Well, I remember the first human beings that went into space. Yuri Gagarin in 61, and Alan Shepard followed him. And right after that, I found out now that the Russians were beating us in space. And so Kennedy put out a desire of what high.

Starting point is 00:04:56 and we beat them. And we're on Von Braun said we can beat them to the moon. And I've got a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy. And he said, okay, we'll go to the moon. So he committed to the Apollo program. And that was in. Remember how old you were? Well, I was sick. It was in 61 or two. So I was born in 35, so I was less than 30 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I remember seeing specifically there were interviews with, I think this might have been a Von Braun interview from your documentary where they were asking Von Braun about the space race with Russia. And he was explaining it in an analogy to where he said Russia is already in a full sprint. We haven't even started walking yet.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Like we have to gear up. We have a long time to gear up and to speed up before we're even running at the same pace they are before we have to do all that before we can even think about closing the gap between us and Russia. Well, that might be true. I don't remember that level of detail, but I do have a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy, I believe it was, that said the only way we can beat them is beat them to the moon. And so they committed to the moon. And by the end of the decade, which I thought was crazy. I mean, six years. 15 minutes in space and we're going to land on the moon in the next eight and a half years.

Starting point is 00:06:30 Turns out I was sitting in mission control in July of 1969, eight years and two months later. And I'm talking to Neil Armstrong on the moon. Let's go to the point where you first decided, like how did the process work for you to be chosen to be selected for this program? As I said, I'd graduated from the test pilot school at Edwards Air Force Base in the summer of 65. And in September of that year, I saw an ad in a paper that's nicest looking for more astronauts, please apply. So I was in the Air Force. I had to go through the official channels. So they told me what to do.

Starting point is 00:07:14 And I submitted my application along with Stu Russo and Alan Ward, Al Warden. Hank Hartsfield, we were all in the same test pilot school class. And Joe Engel was out there. He applied, and there was a lot of people applied. And they were looking for test pilots and my age and height and everything like that. When you say test pilot, you mean test pilot for the space program? No, test pilot for the Air Force. The Air Force.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Yeah. We were all at Edwards Air Force Base, the ones I'm speaking about. Now, we had others selected came from the Naval Test Pilot School, which was in Patuxet, Maryland. And then how did you, and then how did that evolve into the idea of going to the moon, working on the moon missions? I'm not sure the moon, the moon missions had been determined. That's what we were working on. And if we applied, we would have a chance to work on the Apollo program. Was there a moment for you where you thought, like, I want to be one of the guys to go to the moon? Or I want to be a part of that program to put man on the moon?

Starting point is 00:08:30 That was the call by NASA, if you got selected as astronaut, you'd be a part of the Apollo program. So, no guarantee you're going to fly to the moon, no guarantee that it was even going to be completed. But I wanted to be an astronaut. It was the best job you could have as a test pilot. And then what was that training like to become an astronaut? And how long did it take? Well, it depends on what you call training. Our group, it was 19 of us, we reported to Houston in like the 1st of May, 1966.

Starting point is 00:09:09 And we started learning NASA ease, you know, how does NASA work? And who's got responsibility? us, that and the other. And they decided also if we're going to go to the moon, we don't know what kind of rocks to pick up. And so we started a big extensive training in geology. And we not only had classroom work, but we also had field trips once a month, generally. And that was two or three days, somewhere in the U.S., somewhere, and sometimes in Hawaii, sometimes in Canada, but mostly in the U.S. We did a geology trip, got into the field, and learned how to pick up the right kind of rocks. And what were you, what was going through your mind when, I mean, you're a young guy and you're, this is 66, three years before Apollo 11, you're trained to become an astronaut, learning about geology, like, what was going through your mind at that point? Like what was your, like, were you optimistic that this was going to happen?

Starting point is 00:10:17 Were you skeptical? Were you fearful? I was optimistic that Apollo was going to happen. I wasn't so optimistic that I'd get a chance to go. We were the junior guys. And so it turned out that some of the senior guys left, John Glenn, Wally Shiraugh, after Apollo 7 retired. And so a lot of the older guys started retiring.

Starting point is 00:10:45 So we sort of bubbled up into the mix. And Dick Slayton, who was the, and Alan Shepard, who were the two top astronauts, they started picking people to train. And so they were trying to balance the crew and give us younger guys some experience. So most of the crews that were selected had a senior guy. that had flown in space. He was the commander. And then a lot of the crews had two rookies that came from our group mostly. And how did you come to meet von Braun? One of my first jobs as an astronaut was to monitor the development of the Saturn 5, Stu Russo and myself. And so the best way to do that was to

Starting point is 00:11:42 up and meet Bron Vaughn and sit in on his staff meetings to see how the Saturn 5 was progressing and was this thing going to really fly? And so every month we'd go up and sit in on his staff meeting. And he became, I wouldn't say a friend, but he recognized us every time we walked in. He says, welcome Charlie, welcome Stu. And we'd sit in and listen to his briefings on his staff meeting and then we'd go back and report to the astronaut office on Monday morning, every Monday morning we'd have a couple hour meeting and what was going on in the program. And Stu and I'd give a briefing every time we got back. So you would explain to the other astronauts what the progress was on the Saturn 5 rocket. That's correct. Depending on like what. Did you have any like personal

Starting point is 00:12:33 conversations with Von Braun about this or or? Well, mostly just he records. recognized us and he accepted us. And I can't say he became a real good friend, but he certainly knew who we were. And I respected him highly. And they were doing a good job. Turned out the Saturday five never had a failure, not one. That's pretty astonishing. And all of the flights of Apollo, they lost one engine. And I think it was on Apollo 13, but one engine goes out. you can still make it in orbit. Wow. In fact, it was such a good machine.

Starting point is 00:13:14 Stu Russo and I went to Ames Research Center, and they wrote a program. Can astronauts literally fly the Saturn 5 in a space manually? And we prove we could, not very efficiently, but we could get it into orbit. But they decided not to use that program. and so it never was implemented, but we spent a month or so out at Ames proving that you could fly the Saturn 5 into orbit. What made the Saturn 5 so superior, even to rockets that we have today? I mean, obviously it wasn't reusable. I think it was just good technology and a simple, you know, there wasn't anything complicated about the Saturn 5.

Starting point is 00:14:05 the engines were huge and they were test fired and it was a nitrogen and no not nitrogen hydrogen and oxygen i don't remember what the fuel was but uh anyway they were very reliable and engines a huge uh 1.5 million pounds thrust each on the first stage and uh so that was a seven and a half million pounds of thrust lifting six and a half million pounds and you were up on the top and the only thing I remember of a liftoff was the vibration you didn't have any noise from the engines that was all going sideways but the thing shook it was like being on a 360 long limber fishing pole and you were up at the top and somebody shaking it down here which was the engines and was vibrating from side to

Starting point is 00:15:01 side not a pogo but a vibrate from side like swaying back and forth. Yeah. Very high, high frequency, though. Mm-hmm. And amplitude was maybe that four. Mm-hmm. Just the way.

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Starting point is 00:16:56 I was at Capcom. I'd done the same thing on Apollo 10, and where they took the lunar module. to the moon but weren't going to land. And so that had gone well. And Neil asked me to, why don't you be captain for us? I mean, you got the experience. Oh, he asked you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:16 And because I wasn't on the crew of any way involved, but he said, would you do that? And I said, sure, it would be a great honor. And so we practiced for two months and simulations, the crews in the simulator. We're in mission control. we practice four or five hours a day generally and for the landing part. So what specifically do you do as the Topcom guy? You're the voice of mission control. You're the only person that can actually talk to the crew. The crew's voice loop is heard in mission control in everybody's headsets.

Starting point is 00:18:01 But the only person that can respond is Capcom and was an astronaut. And you really told them what was, you responded to their calls and you responded to what the mission control team was telling you to tell them to keep them into loop. Like we started down and we had communication problems. And if I recall, it was a 30-second rule. If you lost communications for 30 seconds, it was on a board. So we reoriented, changed attitude, changed antennas. And then the computer was overloading. And that really got everybody's attention.

Starting point is 00:18:54 And so, but Steve Bales and Jack Garman in the back room said we're go flight. They knew what the computer was doing. And it was not, it was overloading because it had a, it had 75 milliseconds of compute and then it flipped back to the, to the job number one. And it was always flying the spacecraft, but it was dropping off these insignificant jobs. And so we were a goal. And then we had a trajectory problem and Neil couldn't, we, we, we, had him targeted into the wrong place. We didn't really understand lunar gravity then and with the mascons and all of that stuff. So we, he had to level off and fly horizontally, I don't know, four or five miles. And that used up all the reserve fuel. And so now we're minimum fuel.

Starting point is 00:19:52 And we called, they have two separate fuel reserves, one for the descent and one for the ascent when they leave the moon. The asset engine was never used on the asset, I mean descent. Okay. You never would do that. Well, you'd have to stage the vehicle to get the asset engine light. It wouldn't light unless you staged and separated. So anyway, we called 60 seconds.

Starting point is 00:20:24 He had 60 seconds to the land. and then I remember 30 seconds. I called 30 seconds. And he was, it was close, but not on the ground. And we were, according to my watch, we were 15 seconds or so before calling on abort when Buzz Aldrin said, contact, engine stopped. They were on the moon. Wow. Tension was through the roof at mission control.

Starting point is 00:20:55 What was that like for you when they landed on the moon and you were sitting in that? It's a great sigh of relief. Everybody, you know, it was tense, you can imagine. And are we going to make it? Are we going to make it? I'm convinced now that had I called abort time up, you know, and called an abort, which was based on the fuel reserve and a decent engine, And Neil would have said, say again, Houston, he's not going to abort.

Starting point is 00:21:27 He's going to land at 20 feet off the moon, and he's minimum fuel. And we hit that point, he's not going to abort. He had the final say, so he's going to land. Now, were you there on the communication with them the moment they landed? Yes. And how long were you there? Were you there the whole time, even when they were coming back? No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:21:52 That was another, we had, I think, four flight teams working Apollo 11. And I was on Gene Krantz's team, and we had responsibility for landing. And then we stayed around for another hour or so while they saved the spacecraft and got everything. And how long was it until? until once he got back to Earth, do you remember your first conversation with him? How long was it before you talked to him? Well, they had to go into quarantine and because of moonbugs. You know, we weren't sure about whether we're going to bring back something that's going to wipe out the whole civilization.

Starting point is 00:22:41 Civilization. So they went into quarantine and we could talk to him through the window. And, but there were no moon bugs and everything was fine. And so they were, I think, three weeks or something like that. And then it got out and we started having debriefings. But we were debriefing during the time they were in quarantine. And what was that like? Well, what was his demeanor?

Starting point is 00:23:12 What was his attitude? What was he saying? Anything ring a bell to you? Or does anything really like stick out for you as far? as like conversations you had with him afterwards? Neil Armstrong was Mr. Coolstone. Yeah, I mean, he was unflappable. And, you know, we landed.

Starting point is 00:23:34 And he was following the rules, but we had, we hit minimum fuel on the descent because we had him targeted into the wrong way and he had to fly horizontally about four or five miles. and then sat down and find a place to land. And I remember calling Apollo 11 30 seconds. I mean, he had 30 seconds to land on the moon. And the next call was going to be abort.

Starting point is 00:24:08 Right, right. Yep. We just talked about that. Yeah. So, okay, let's fast forward to your mission, Apollo 16. Can you describe like what was it like being sitting in the tip of that rocket before it launched off to the moon? Keep counting. Keep counting. I'm ready to go. You were ready to go?

Starting point is 00:24:31 Yeah, two years. And we trained. Was there any, was there no fear? Like you had children and a wife back home. No fear. No fear at all. Yes. We had, because we had so many, we had a, escape rocket. We had practiced abortes and not, if the thing blew up on the pad, you were still

Starting point is 00:24:57 able to get off with the Apollo launch vehicle escape system. Oh, wow. And so we had practiced all of that stuff and we were just ready to go. And so we were laying there ready, keep counting, keep counting, keep counting, keep counting. And can you walk me through what that was like for you? like that first that lift off and then getting into orbit and then and then doing the i want to say i've been waiting to say this word for for weeks the trans lunar injection sounds so cool barts over there barts over there steaming well i'm just waiting for me turn you'll get it you'll get it i'm entertained yeah you'll get it bart this is uh we i think it's really important to get this And we listened to the count.

Starting point is 00:25:49 And when the engine started, they were moving down there to maintain a trajectory. And that vibration translated up and you 360 feet above it, and it shook from side to side. But we're on our way. You feel the Gs lift off and mission control said you go, and we were going. And it was really exciting. to feel the acceleration of this big vehicle and the vibration from side to side. And we didn't have any pogo, but it was a vibration from side to side. So we're on a way and just riding it out.

Starting point is 00:26:32 And it was really, I mean, one of the best rides I've ever had. How long did it take to get to the moon? Get into orbit was 12 minutes or something. So I think. And that was, you ended up on the third stage, which was the rocket that pushed you out of Earth orbit and onto the trajectory to the moon. And that happened, I don't know, about a rev and a half later. We were over Australia.

Starting point is 00:27:10 And we ignited the third stage automatically and pushed us out of orbit. into a cis lunar orbit that took us to the moon. And then when we got there, we had to slow down to get into orbit. And we used the service module engine for that. And what was your, did you have a specific task on that trip to the moon? Were you in charge of monitoring anything in particular or communication? Well, I was the lunar module pilot, which was on the right side. And as you look at the instrument panel, I was on the right side.

Starting point is 00:27:51 Maddingly was in the center seat and John Young was the commander on the left seat. So if we had emergencies, we all had things to do. We practiced, you know, abortes, and we practiced radio out and every kind of thing. Fuel cell failures. We just practiced and practiced and practiced. So we were ready to go. And towards that, our flight was sort of one of the most nominal flights that we had to get into orbit on the Saturn 5. It was a very reliable rocket.

Starting point is 00:28:30 Explain what it was like actually landing on the moon. Well, it was a very dynamic situation. We pitched over at 7,000 feet. and that's the first time you saw the lunar surface where you were going to land. And I... Seven thousand feet. Yeah. And I looked out and looked to the right to see if I could see the North Ray crater up there.

Starting point is 00:28:56 And we were right on target. And John began to maneuver the spacecraft manually to... He picked out a landing spot. He had... on his windshields, he had ladders. And if you land it, lined it up, like at 35, that meant, and the computer would tell you at 35, that's where you're going to land if you don't do anything. And so he read designated a couple of times, and we were going into some craters.

Starting point is 00:29:32 And he maneuvered, and I was just talking him down. I was not looking out the window much. because it was so busy. You were reading instruments or something? We had a profile that said at 500 feet down at 22 and no lateral velocity or whatever. And so I was reading that profile out to him. Oh, I see. And he was flying at manually.

Starting point is 00:30:04 By this time, he's flying it manually. And he's controlling the whole thing. descent, right left, forward, back. And we had a profile, and we were right on the profile. So when we hit the ground, there was a probe underneath the landing gear, said, contact, and when that light came on, you shut the engine down. And we were coming down like two, three feet per second, I think, if I remember right. And when the light came on, I said, contact.

Starting point is 00:30:39 And he shut it down and we dropped in on the moon, almost dead level. So we were excited to say the least. I could imagine. We were late landing. We had a problem in the command module before we started down. And it almost caused an abort of the whole mission, but mission control came to the rescue and figured it out. and so we continued our mission, but we were late landing. I use nicotine for focus, and I usually keep one of those little cans around just to help me stay focused and energized during the day.

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Starting point is 00:32:37 So what was your mission? What was the objective of Apollo 16? To explore the lunar highlands, the mountains of the moon, the geology was supposed to be different than Amari, where Neil landed. And it was. We had different rocks, different kind of compositions. and we had a car that we unloaded and drove it. First day we drove west for a mile and a half and sampled plum crater. And the next day we drove south up Stone Mountain.

Starting point is 00:33:17 And that was about eight or nine mile round trip. And then the last day, we headed north. Yeah, north to what was called, I can't remember the name of the crater now. It was a big crater, North Ray crater. North Ray crater was going. Do you remember the moment you took your first step onto the moon? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:45 What did that feel like? I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. It's just exciting. Just elated with excitement. Yeah. We were delayed getting out because we were late landing. due to the problem we had any other spacecraft.

Starting point is 00:34:01 How old were you again? When you first landed on the, when you walked on the moon? 36. You were 36 years old. One of the youngest guys. I can't, I would imagine it would be overwhelming. The amount of emotions would be, it was pretty exciting and we were, you know, just bounding with enthusiasm.

Starting point is 00:34:21 And we were late landing, so we were supposed to, the original plan called us to land and suit up and go outside, side. But mission control canceled that. It said, you're going to be up too late. You might make a mistake or too long, not wake up too late, but you're going to be awake for 20-something hours if we do the sea feed. So they made you guys go to sleep? Yeah, took off our suits and went to sleep. What were you? Is there anything that sort of like blew your previously held conceptions of the moon out of the water when you got there. Like when you've actually walked out and stepped on the moon, was it exactly what you expected it to be? Or what about that experience really stood out to you?

Starting point is 00:35:14 Well, we were the fifth landing. So we had, we heard debrief four, four previous crews tell us what was it like. Okay. So we, we had a lot of familiarity with it. And we knew, we had a flight plan. We knew what we were going to do. And so we just got to work. And it was really exciting being there. And I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. You know, and you were thinking those things privately. You're not broadcasting it out. But we like, like, what did it feel like to walk on, to walk on the moon? Do you remember like what? I'm talking about like that, like, what did the ground feel like? What you don't have any feel? You got a moon boot on and you got a suit boot on. Right. So you just feel the pressure.

Starting point is 00:35:59 and it was easy to lose your balance, if you will, at one-six gravity. Could you immediately see the Earth? No, it was right overhead. So when you look up in Apollo, you're looking at the top of your helmet. So we never saw the Earth. You got to be like, well, yeah, you could hold on to the spacecraft and lean back, and there it was. It's a half-earth up in the sky. in the sky. And you could, we had TV, so we had an antenna that we, like a periscope, and we could

Starting point is 00:36:38 point that at the earth. And when we got it pointed to earth, we flipped on the TV and we had TV. Wow. Wow. And how big, like you were standing on the edge of a crater. How big was that crater? The biggest one we visited was Northray crater was about, I'm, I can, that's been, a long time ago. So I'll guess it may be 300 and 300 feet wide and maybe a couple hundred feet deep. And that was our last EVA. That was our third EBA. The lunar rover that we had was, we were the, let's see, second.

Starting point is 00:37:21 Yeah, second with the lunar rover. And it revolutionized lunar exploration because you've, probably that yet. everybody was walking. You know, it was pretty tough walking up there and collecting rocks. So riding a rover was really revolutionary. How long were you guys outside? The longest was, if I remember, right, it was over eight hours. You were walking around on your feet for eight hours.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Well, no, we were riding a car. You could sit in the car. Okay. And then ride the place and we'd jump out. And we'd had a flight plan, do this, do this, find this rock, do that. And so we were collecting samples. We were drilling holes. We were digging and shoveling trenches and everything like that.

Starting point is 00:38:06 Was there anything that you did that was a part of the job that you had to do that surprised you? Like in any of your digs or any of your findings, did you see anything that was like shocking or like unexpected? I don't think into physical work was anything different. but the experience of being on the moon and the one-six gravity, you had to learn how to walk and get your center of gravity over your feet. Yeah. And you couldn't straighten up. I tried to straighten up, jumping one time and straighten up, and I fell over backwards,

Starting point is 00:38:45 which was really scary. But that was the end of our stay. And do you remember if you could see stars? You can't. You can't see any stars. Not in the daylight. You can't. And you guys were in the daylight the entire mission, right?

Starting point is 00:39:00 No, only on the moon. That's what I mean when you guys were like the entirety of your time spent on the moon was in the daylight. Because days there are like 14 days long here on Earth, right? That's right. So what happened when you guys had to come home? What was that like? Well, we were approaching that time going because. And we tried to talk mission control, and they're letting us stay another two hours,

Starting point is 00:39:31 but, or whatever it was. And they said, get inside, guys. It's time to come home. So we got inside and we got ready to lift off. But the first thing we had to do was pitch out all the backpacks. So we pressurized, opened the, depressurized, opened the door throughout the backpacks, two bags of trash. Oh, no, you littered on the moon? Yeah, we big littered.

Starting point is 00:39:57 Yeah. Unbelievable. Sorry about that. But we were. How dare you? Yeah. And then we lifted off and rendezvous. And when you got back to Earth, you had to go through the same process that Neil went through.

Starting point is 00:40:15 No, we did not have quarantine. You did not have quarantine? No. Not on the return. What did you have to go through on the return? Was there any specific protocol you had to follow? Well, I don't remember exactly, but we, uh, but we we had physicals and you know blood and stuff blood work and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:40:36 Were there any like psychological evaluations or anything like that or like talking to somebody that about your experience? Oh, we had debriefings, but everybody, geologists, other astronauts, mission control. We talked to everybody when we got back. Management. Yeah. Okay, Bart. So your basic story was when you were a kid, you were obsessed with the moon missions. You said you were asleep when they first landed on the moon, but you were a huge fan of NASA and a big believer in the moon landing.

Starting point is 00:41:15 And at one point, something happened and you did a 180. Out of everything. And I know you cover a lot of ground. with your theories and in your documentaries, you do a very thorough job laying out every single point. But like to you, what is the, what are like the top two or three reasons that you believe that the moon landing was a hoax?

Starting point is 00:41:47 Well, we can get into that, and I have evidence to show on all of those. The first we have an eyewitness who saw them saw them film Apollo 11 at Cannon Air Force Base. He confessed to it as he was dying. And he also confessed to a homicide. This is why the headphones help because sometimes you're not talking into the microphone. Just make sure you keep it like this far away from your mouth. This far. Okay. Get it nice and close. So we have an eyewitness and who was fearing the judgment of God as he was dying. and he confessed to a homicide.

Starting point is 00:42:25 And if you want, you can bring up that image. It's image D1. This gentleman's name is Cyrus Eugene Akers. He was the chief of security at Canyon Air Force Base, which is these special operations or intelligence headquarters for the Air Force. And as he was dying in the presence of his son, there's a picture of him, general if you want to look at it.

Starting point is 00:42:52 Okay. This is Cyrus Eugene Akers. That's right. How did you discover this guy? His son contacted me. Okay. Based after his father confessed. And the first thing he confessed to was a homicide that he felt like he needed to confess

Starting point is 00:43:09 that he had murdered somebody in the past. And his son found out that he murdered a fellow employee at Cannon Air Force Base. and the military police came in and investigated the homicide. And when they asked him, why did you kill him? He said it was to cover up the moon landing fraud, which they both had eyewitness. And he felt that his friend who thought it was morally wrong was going to go public with it. And so he murdered him to keep it a secret. If you go to D2, we can watch a three-minute video of the son and see his testimony about it.

Starting point is 00:43:58 Okay, so this is a deathbed confession that the son told you about. Correct. And there was a police investigation into it after? There was a military police investigation. Okay. Is there any hard evidence of this investigation and what was the outcome of it? Well, after his father's confession, which was videotaped. Oh, it was on video.

Starting point is 00:44:19 That's correct. When they went out one day, their house burned down. They believe it was said intentionally for somebody who knew about the confession. After all, they had told the Air Force military police that the moon landing was fake. They reported that to their superiors. They found out there was a videotape of the confession. And so they burned their house down. And in fact, the...

Starting point is 00:44:44 Who burned their house down? Whoever it was arson, I presume. the CIA or whoever. And how long after this confession was the house burned down? Within, I think, a couple of weeks because they had video of the confession and they had some documentation. In fact, the gentleman's Air Force file has been completely deleted. We used a Freedom of Information Act request.

Starting point is 00:45:10 They said there's no Cyrus Eugene Acres. There's never was in the Air Force. and yet I went to the military graveyard, which isn't too far from here, about 50 miles from here. And there he is, his tombstone, the United States Air Force. From here? Yeah, it's about 50 miles from here. Wow. And he's in a military cemetery.

Starting point is 00:45:33 And it says United States Air Force, Cyrus Eugene Akers, and that he served in Vietnam and Korea. And his son lived right across from the base. He said he was chief of security there. And so if you play video D2, we can have a video of the sun and put it in his own words. President Johnson in 1968, okay, in Cannon Air Force Base in 1968, he said by that time, by the time he got there, that there was already two large hangers that were connected. There was hundreds of dump trucks that came in and dumped sand, and, uh, stone and cement powder was powdered over the top of all that to make it look like a

Starting point is 00:46:23 lunar landscape they had men that they fashioned it into a lunar landscape he said okay I've never known my dad the lie so this all took me by surprise you know what's that all about so anyway he said that in front of the the airplane hangers was pull framing with large canvas tents that was concealing the inside of the staging area. Inside the staging area on flatbed trucks was uncrated the lunar lander that was assembled, reassembled back inside the hangars. All of the walls were painted flat black in the ceilings as well. He was sworn to secrecy by the NSA, and they would put him in prison for breaking that oath.

Starting point is 00:47:21 When Dad saw the moon landing on TV, he cried. He said he knew that what he had witnessed on TV was exactly what they recorded in that hangar. There was no reason for them to go flying around and everything. They had detailed high-definition photos of the landing area. There was no reason for them to go flying around to a different landing area that almost exhausted their fuel, except for drama, because everything had gone so smoothly. Nothing, you know, so it had to be something. Anyway, that was one of three guards that guarded the inside of the front entrance. There was a list of 15 people who could enter.

Starting point is 00:48:16 No one else was allowed by order of President Johnson. And here is that list. And I gave it to Bart's eyebrow as well. And he checked out a lot of these names, and he says he can verify a lot of these people and what they do. And I come across the couple myself. Anyway, President Johnson, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Alden, Werner von Braun, Robert Emineger, Gene Krantz, James Webb, Joe Kerwin, Dr. Thomas Payne, Glenn Looney, Dr. Christopher Christopher Kraft, Dr. James Van Allen, General Trudeau, Lieutenant Colonel Donald Simon, and Grant Norroy. My dad, he raised me by the book. I know he didn't lie to me.

Starting point is 00:49:18 And as I started seeing more and more of what he was telling me was true, I realized my dad wasn't lying. All right. So you would say this is the top piece of evidence that you... No, it's the most compelling to people because we have a testimony of it. Now, if I may ask... It is a testimony, but it's not actual hardcore evidence. No, I understand we've got three and a half hours. He's got 40 minutes ahead of head start on me. Yes, he does. And so I can present my... evidence. And I have a couple of questions. If I climbed Mount Everest and was known for climbing Mount Everest and got an award or a medal and everyone, I was hired at companies as their CEO for

Starting point is 00:50:04 having climbed to Mount Everest. And somebody came along and started saying, you didn't do it. You, it was filmed in a TV studio. I certainly wouldn't fly and make an airport change and stay overnight in a hotel and go to podcast to podcast to defend that I'd climbed Mount Everest. I wouldn't waste my time. So why are you here? Me? Yeah. If you walked on the moon and it's so obvious that you walked on the moon, I wouldn't fly anywhere to debate somebody.

Starting point is 00:50:41 to debate somebody whether or not I walked them out Everest if I did. So why are you here? I'm here to tell my story. He asked me to come and share my story, did I walk on the moon? And I did walk on the moon. The evidence of overwhelming that we landed on the moon. And so I've told my story for the last 50-something years, almost, or whatever it is. We landed in 72. So I have been asked to share my experience by reputable people. And so I do that. And I am not lying.

Starting point is 00:51:20 I landed on a moon. And the evidence is overwhelming. Well, actually, the opposite is true. People can say anything. The evidence is not overwhelming. What is evidence? Hang on. Hold on a second.

Starting point is 00:51:31 Hold on a second, Bart. We'll get into that. Let's lay out some more of your evidence. Okay. Well, you retired a general, right? Okay. What was your security clearance? Top secret. Okay. So when you have a top secret, you're not allowed to tell your why for your children, right? What? Whatever the secrets are. Whatever secrets you have is a top secret clearance. If you told your why for your children, you would be violating your oath. Is that right? In the military, that's true, but NASA did not have us swear an oath that we are lying or not lying. I understand, but the point is you have top secret clearance and telling your wife or your children would be violating that oath.

Starting point is 00:52:23 So your oath to the corrupt United States federal government includes lying to your wife and to your children. Now, there are 100,000 trials every year in America. 90% of the people are guilty, and yet 100,000 people raise their hand and swear that they're telling the truth. So does every Nazi war criminal. They look like benevolent grandfathers, and yet they go smiling through life and denying to the very end that they committed these crimes, which they did. Now, if you're willing to lie to your wife and to your children, why should we believe you? Believe me about what? Well, you just said you're willing to lie to your wife and children to keep your oath to the corrupt federal government.

Starting point is 00:53:15 So if you're willing to lie... No, I'm not lying to them. I'm not lying to anybody. I'm telling them the truth. I landed on the moon. Just because somebody has, I don't think it's fair to say, just because he has a top secret clearance and he's under an oath to protect government secrets. that doesn't mean that he is inherently a liar. I understand that. But it shows that he is willing to lie to his wife and children. And if he's willing to do that, he's willing to lie to the rest of the world. So that's my point.

Starting point is 00:53:44 No Nazi war criminal has ever come forward and turned himself in. And when arrested and interrogated, not a single one confessed, even though they were guilty. I'm just mentioning that. So either the gentleman we saw is lying or your line, one of the two. So would a general with top secret clearance be more likely to lie or were a sergeant on his deathbed who confessed to a homicide be more willing to tell the truth? I think there's crazy people out there. There's lots of crazy lunatics out there who are willing to, who will say anything and make up stories.

Starting point is 00:54:24 And the same thing is true that people. than it's sitting across for me. Well, I don't think so. I don't necessarily think that. I think that anybody who is in a high-level military position that has to protect government secrets is going to protect their oath. It doesn't mean they're a liar. That means that they're protecting national secrets, something they swore to do and devoted

Starting point is 00:54:45 their career to. And if they divulge those secrets, they will go to prison for it. And there's been many cases where people have done that, have been sent to prison by the federal government for blowing the whistle on things and following whistleblower protocol. So I don't think we're going to get anywhere by calling people liars, first of all. Well, I'm not, what I'm saying is either the gentleman we saw who was lying as he's dying or you're lying. Only one of them is true, right? Either that guy's lying while he was dying, confessing to a homicide.

Starting point is 00:55:16 Sure, what's your point? Well, I just bringing that to the audience's attention. Okay. Right. Okay. Now, I had a little side note. Who do you think killed J.F. I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:55:27 Huh? Okay. I believe, well, I know what this. What's your personal opinion? I don't, my personal opinion is a, I don't remember Oswald or whatever his name is. I don't remember the name. Lee Harvey Oswald. The government's position was that he acted alone and he was the sole shooter for of JFK.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Yeah. That's what you believe. Yeah. Well, 75% of Americans disagree. The gentleman's relatives disagree. Bobby Kennedy Jr. says he's 100% certain that he was murdered by the CIA because he was going to abolish them. And then a few years later, Robert McNamur before he died, he was Defense Secretary during the Vietnam War. He confessed that the whole reason that the war was started, which 90% of the public was against, was they

Starting point is 00:56:24 fabricated an attack by the North Vietnamese on an American ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. Even Wikipedia says it was falsified. Now, Congress passed a law called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which led to the deaths of 3 million people, including 58,220 of their own citizens. So if they're willing to kill their own president, willing to kill 58,220 of their own citizens, I don't think they're going to have a problem faking a video image of the moon. In fact, NASA has never kept a schedule in its entire existence except the most complicated one of all time. Somehow they were ahead of schedule.

Starting point is 00:57:09 You see that? So here's some names on here, and I wondered if you knew those names. He was very specific. He kept this list as a search. souvenir. So do you know who President Johnson is? You know Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, Werner von Braun. Who's Robert Eminaker? I don't know. Are you familiar with Cannon Air Force Base? Not really. I've been to Cannon, landed there and refueled, but I've never been stationed there. So what does special ops mean in the Air Force? It's just what you're saying, special ops.

Starting point is 00:57:51 Top secret stuff. Yeah. Okay. What about Joseph Kerwin? Joe Kern was an astronaut, doctor, medical doctor. That's Joe Corwin, I know. What about Thomas Payne? Thomas Payne was head of NASA. Okay. Christopher Kraft. He was head of Johnson Space Center, but he's also head of mission control. What about Arthur Trudeau? I don't know him. I don't remember him. He's General of Army Intelligence. What about Donald Simon? I don't remember him.

Starting point is 00:58:26 Grant Norrie. Who? Yeah, those people we couldn't track down. What was the last point when you said? Grant Norrie? Yeah. Oh. What do you think he's either NSA or CIA, we couldn't track him down.

Starting point is 00:58:38 So. I guess the point here is that, and I can attest to this. Oh, wait, wait, let me, I've lost my, right. Right. Let me, let me sum it, let me sum it up for you. The, the, one of the main reasons for me, and I think, I think I'm speaking for a lot of other folks when I say this is that when it comes to the Apollo missions, the Apollo missions happened in the middle of the Cold War during the peak of government distrust. That's when we know, according to all the declassified documents by the CIA and the FBI, is that the government was lying and deceiving the public more than ever.

Starting point is 00:59:18 I mean, I don't know how much they're doing now, but as far as all the documents that we have, that was the peak. That was when the president of the United States was murdered. That's when we did the Gulf of Tonkin, got into the Vietnam War. The government started doing a secret mind control program with using LSD and other drugs. And there was the Manson family murders and all of this stuff, right? So when people look at this stuff and they're learning the history of the Cold War and they see that the most astonishing feat of mankind ever happened right in the middle of all of that stuff. People just, I think they get taken back by it.

Starting point is 01:00:06 So the government was lying about all this other stuff, but the one thing they didn't lie about was the most amazing feat of mankind. Does that make sense to you? Does that sort of logic, does that make sense? Why people would question that? Question Apollo? Yes, just based on all of the other strategic deception that was happening within the government, like MK Ultra, mind control experiments that were going on. The Vietnam War, the assassination of President Kennedy, the Gulf of Tonkin, all of that stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:42 It was right in the middle of all of that, all of that, the Bay of Pigs, right? There was Operation Northwoods that got to classified where the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to fly a airplane. with nobody in it as a drone and blow it up as a pretext to invade Cuba. Killing Americans. They were willing to kill Americans to fake an attack on Cuba. This is real declassified stuff that that's come out in the federal government with the Warren Commission and all of this stuff. The same people who would later approve the follow program.

Starting point is 01:01:14 So that's... We never landed on the moon? Well, no, what the question is... You didn't know that before you got here? No. Charlie. You're really good actors. I really didn't know that.

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Starting point is 01:02:48 LG appliances, so much more. Make life easier with LG. See the latest models and savings now at lg.com. Charlie, does it make sense to you? That's right. That's how arrogant the federal government is. Now, if I may have my 40 minutes to answer your question. Hold on one second. I want to make sure this lands with him. Does it make sense why people would question that based on all of the

Starting point is 01:03:11 other bullshit and lying that was going on that we know was actually all the other stuff that we know for a fact was deception? No, to me Apollo was real to you. No, wait a minute. In the United States, there were 400,000 people working on Apollo. Right. Well, let me. Yes, a minute.

Starting point is 01:03:33 Let me finish. You had 40 minutes already. I've only had 10. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay. That's one of the, you know, must be real because of 400,000. And, of course, every year, that number increases.

Starting point is 01:03:45 There are 400,000 tellers at Bank of America, but do you really think what the teller knows and what the CEO knows about corruption in the bank are identical? I interviewed Eugene Krantz. He told me that someone in the command center at the console can tell no difference whatsoever between a simulation and an actual flight. Do we really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the guy making the glove or the door or the boot, hey, we're really not going to the moon, be sure not to tell anybody. And that's why they had you astronauts at the command center to cover the mistakes about faking it.

Starting point is 01:04:26 Once the rocket went up, there's only three eyewitnesses to the mission and no independent press coverage. So if you add people who delivered food and made paper clips and did the printing and the contractors and all their secretaries and food vendors, you could probably pad 400,000. But the atomic bomb involved 129,500 people, and only eight people knew what they were building. So if someone in the command center cannot tell the difference between a real flight and a simulated flight, how can the public watching it from their living room or people years later? So that argument is flat. It doesn't go anywhere. And neither does the argument that the Russians would have spilled the beans.

Starting point is 01:05:12 because I know somebody who works in the command center of the Chinese space agency. He said everybody there knows that the moon missions are fake and they're blackmailing NASA because Congress passed a law forbidding space technology to be sold to China and they're receiving it anyway by blackmail. If I had a picture of a world leader with a prostitute, I could upload it to the internet and now it's worth nothing. or I could blackmail them year after year after year. And that's what the Soviet Union is doing.

Starting point is 01:05:48 Putin knows. He wasn't surprised to find out that the moon missions are fake. And neither is China. So that doesn't fly either. We're being blackmail, which is another reason for the truth to come out. Now, I also interviewed Betty Grissom, the widow of the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, who was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he received secret service protection

Starting point is 01:06:16 the weeks up to his death. I interviewed her for four hours. I interviewed her son for three hours, who's a 747 pilot. They say with 100% certainty that the man who was going to be, the first man to walk on the moon, was murdered by the CIA. And if you go to D3, it's a short clip, You can see Scott Grissom say that out of his own mouth. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts who are whistleblowers? What a coincidence, right? Go ahead and play that clip. It's D3.

Starting point is 01:06:52 I think it was intentionally sabotaged by someone. It's been a question in my mind. What was found in the accident investigation and how was that handled? Was the CIA involved or whoever? But it was done intentionally. So this... You know the story of... I'm sure you know the story of the Gus.

Starting point is 01:07:12 Gus Gresson was Apollo 1, right? That's right. Yeah. And according to his son and widow, he was murdered by the CIA. She told me that on January 26, 1967, he telephoned her from NASA and said, Han, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launch pad today. I've never seen him here before. For some reason, they showed up today.

Starting point is 01:07:39 Did you ever see the CIA? The very next day, he's dead by a quote accident. One of his last words were, if we can't talk between two buildings, how are we going to go to the moon? They couldn't get a wired intercom to work between two buildings. And Neil Armstrong was supposed to pick up the first moon rock. He rehearsed it six weeks beforehand and the stick to pick up the rock. falls apart, and the lunar lander crashed weeks beforehand. If they can't get a stick with a bag on the end of it to stay together, if they can't get an intercom to work between two buildings, how are they

Starting point is 01:08:17 going to go to the moon? The Soviets launched the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacewalk, the first crew of three, the first of two spacecrafts altogether. They spent five-time man-hours in space, and they never went to the moon. the most industrialized nation on earth says with 50 years better technology it's going to take at least 15 years to go to the moon and yet somehow they did it in eight years with 1960s technology now if you play clip four this is when my film astronauts gone wild the link will be in the description of your video to serralseborel.com we interviewed ed mitchell and showed him the footage, which is one of the proofs that we'll look at, footage we uncovered that says, do not show to the public at the beginning of the reel, and they're faking being halfway to the moon.

Starting point is 01:09:15 They can't leave Earth orbit. And when he was shown that, he turned beat red. He started cursing. He literally kicked me from behind. And in the commotion, we left a wireless microphone on him. And in the commotion, my cameraman, forgot to stop record. And you can play back that clip. it's about five seconds long, they're talking about calling the CIA to have me kill.

Starting point is 01:09:42 Let's see it. Who kill? Me. Morning old CIA. Have them wrapped. Now my source, the son of Cyrus Eugene Acres, after he spoke to me, he went out and he had a security system with a password and everything. That was hacked. And his house was broken into and everything about his dad was taken.

Starting point is 01:10:07 and then a couple of days later, this is about three and a half years ago, the CIA shows up and threatens to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again. So the dead astronaut son says the CIA is involved, and he got whistleblower protection up until the day that he died. The CIA is threatening to kill me, right? And why would this source of mine, who was also threatened by the CIA, he received whistleblower protection by the FBI. Now, if they went to the moon,

Starting point is 01:10:43 why is he receiving a few years ago whistleblower protection for being the son of the man who confessed that the moon missions were fake? And then if you play clip 5, which is about a minute long, from the documentary conspiracy theory, did we go to the moon, there are other deaths.

Starting point is 01:11:02 There are a total of 15% of the Apollo astronauts died in accidents within a two-year period. These are the astronauts who would not cooperate with the fraud. Go ahead and play the clip. But Grissom wasn't the only Apollo critic to meet with a suspicious and untimely death. Thomas Ronald Barron was a safety inspector during Apollo one's construction. After the fire, Barron testified before Congress that the Apollo program was in such disarray, but the United States would never make it to the moon. Then exactly one week after he testified, Barron's car was struck by a train. The Apollo program continued, and so did the string of untimely deaths.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Between 1964 and 1967, a total of 10 astronauts lost their lives in freak accidents. These deaths accounted for an astonishing 15% of NASA's astronaut corps. To keep something that's alive wrapped up and covered over. You've got to eliminate all the people that can talk about. So we have an eyewitness. That's proof, right? It's just acres? That's right. Well, I mean, it's test. It's one person's testimony. I understand. So either he's telling the truth or he's lying. Sure. I'll assume any guy who confesses to a murder, you know, probably telling the truth. Well, you didn't talk to the guy himself. It was allegedly a videotape that never, and you never saw. That's right. But according to his son,

Starting point is 01:12:46 according to his son. He was there at the time. And you just judge, is that guy of the video we just saw telling the truth or not? I think it's pretty honest, pretty obvious that he's telling the truth. So people can make their judgment. That's one reason. Now, another maybe telling the truth about what? About his father's deathbed confession of murdering a coworker to cover up the moon landing fraud at Cannon Air Force Base. So to me, that guy's telling the truth, which, means if he is, then his father did participate in the moon landing fraud. He went into great detail about the lunar module and the fake lunar set in an airplane hangar filmed a year beforehand. President Johnson showed up. He kept a list of 15 people. Some in their memoirs say they were at

Starting point is 01:13:34 Canon Air Force Base. Cannon Air Force Base used to have on their website. President Johnson visited us in 1968. They removed it once I started investigating it. And the main reason for many people is that today with five decades better rockets in technology, the farthest that NASA can send an astronaut into space is one thousandth the distance to the moon. So what they're claiming is for the first time in the history of the world, technology was greater in the past and in the future, because during the Apollo program, all the computers combined had one millionth the computing power of a cell phone. So that would be like Lindbergh flying across the Atlantic 3,000 miles in 1927, and 56 or 7 years later in 1982, no airplane on Earth can fly over the Atlantic,

Starting point is 01:14:31 and the best one can only fly 3,000 miles. It's impossible to have better technology in the past than in the few, future. How is it, I mean, is there any machine, technological machine you can think of, cell phone, supersonic jets, microwave, anything that worked better in 1969 than its counterpart today? What about supersonic jets? What about them? The sound barrier is broken 200 times a day all around the world in military aircraft. We stopped using them because they were ineffective and they weren't cost, they weren't cost effective. They were inefficient. And they were way more, way more Airplanes are breaking the sound barrier at a rate of 200 a day.

Starting point is 01:15:09 We're using the same airplanes we've been using since the 50s, and we stopped using the supersonic jets. So that would be one example. No, they're still using jets that break the sound barrier every day. Not commercial ones, though. Well, they decided that people aren't going to pay 20 times more to get there twice as fast. Exactly. Right.

Starting point is 01:15:27 That's my point. Right. Well, they could use it, but they're just not. Correct. Right. So let's listen to this clip. B6 of an Apollo astronaut saying something very bizarre that NASA intentionally destroyed all the technology. Now, you still have in the Air Force, you may know more specifically, but the B-52

Starting point is 01:15:52 bomber was designed 70 years ago. It's simple, it's reliable, the same words you used about the Saturn 5 rocket. And there's still 200 of them in service today. So why would they spend a modern equivalent of $250 billion to make this rocket that flies to the moon on the very first attempt and then destroy it? Listen to NASA saying they destroy the technology. I'd go to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used to, but we destroyed that technology. and it's a painful process to build it back again.

Starting point is 01:16:38 So general, why was that technology destroyed? What, do you? Why was it destroyed? Why do you, do you know why or have any idea why the technology was destroyed by NASA? I don't know that the technology was destroyed. Okay, so we built. So NASA has enough line.

Starting point is 01:16:57 Hold on, Barton. Okay. All right, you got let him finish his thought. Yeah. We flew to the moon. Okay. The program was successful. We did six landings on the moon.

Starting point is 01:17:10 Okay, we used technology that was designed by Marshall Space Flight Center called a Saturn 5 rocket was the biggest rocket so far ever launched to get us to the moon. Okay, so we went to the moon. Took three days to get there. We orbited the moon for a day to get everything correct. Generally, it went that way for all of the six landings on the moon. and so we got to the moon, we manned the spacecraft. We had, in our flight, we had a delay because of the command module had a problem with the main engine.

Starting point is 01:17:51 And mission control had to verify that they could get it fixed or work around it. So anyway, we were late landing on Apollo 16 because of this problem. And we landed in the place we were supposed to land at Descartes Highlands. We spent 72 hours on the moon. We brought back 200 pounds of moon rocks or thereabouts. Maybe not that much. I forgot exactly. But the question about the technology being destroyed,

Starting point is 01:18:26 you're not aware of the technology being destroyed or gone missing from all the Apollo programs. Okay. Okay, so that NASA astronaut is lying that the technology was destroyed. He said he wasn't aware of it. Okay. Well, according to NASA, a modern-day astronaut, he said that a couple of years ago, all the Apollo technology was destroyed. I interviewed Eugene Krantz.

Starting point is 01:18:48 He told me all the telemetry data was destroyed. All the original videotapes were destroyed. Right before they were to be transferred to HD. But we still have the original film. No. The 16mm film is still in Houston at the Johnson Space Center. Oh, that I don't know. The videotape is what they intentionally destroyed.

Starting point is 01:19:09 The videotape of the projection that was given. You're talking about the camera-mounted lunar module that took one picture. All of the film, all of the film that was shot on all the missions, on all of the missions, is still in its original format in the film reels in that Johnson Space Center. But the majority of the video images is videotape, and that was intentionally destroyed. But those were just copies. of the film, right? No, these are the originals. I talked to Eugene Krantz. He said the original videotapes were accidentally recorded over, and the only machine on Earth that could play it

Starting point is 01:19:42 back was intentionally disassemble. So that even if they're found, they couldn't be played. I'm confused. All the telemetry data, where the rocket really was. So back to the destroy. One second. Can I ask a question? Well, either this guy is lying, right? Why would a NASA astronaut lie? Has there ever been a time, and this is another proof, has there ever been a time in the history of the world that someone developed a new technology, broke the sound barrier, split the atom, and then destroyed the technology afterwards? It's never happened. They destroyed it to cover their tracks because I went scuba diving, and to have an hour's worth of air, it takes two tanks this big and that big around. That would be six tanks of air you would have to have on your back on the moon. And then to allegedly get the lunar module down to 72 degrees on inside for three days against 250 degrees outside on a bank of essentially car batteries. It can't be done. That's why they destroyed all the technology, because it could be proved later that the rocket didn't have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit,

Starting point is 01:20:53 which we have proof of as well. I have von Braun's own quote, which will read that says one rocket will never go to the moon without multiple fueling, and we'll show that from Von Braun as well. Can I ask a question? Yeah. What does that got to do with our discussion? Well, he asked what proof do we have that they didn't go to the moon? And there's a lot of proof that you didn't go to the moon. How about the proof that is that we did go to the moon? Well, we already heard all of that. 400,000 people, that's been refuted. The Russians would have blabbed. That's been refuted. The moon rocks has been refuted. It's one of my clips that Neil Armstrong, chain of custody, allegedly picked up a rock, personally put it in his pocket, and then later personally gave it to

Starting point is 01:21:37 the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, which was immediately sealed in a container in a museum, was opened up a few years ago, and it's petrified wood. It's a fake. The moon rocks are fake. And Antarctica. Von Braun went to Antarctica. to pick up pounds and pounds of winter meteorites. So the rocks are either duplicates of meteorites picked up on Earth, made in a ceramics lab, or just fake. All right, Bart. And NASA had no comment.

Starting point is 01:22:06 What do you have to say for yourself for a rock that had chain of custody from the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to this museum? Instead of being a fake. NASA says, no comment. All right, you're peppering us with fact after fact and it's just too much. We need to stick to one thing, okay? What's one thing? Let's stick on one topic so we can go back and forth.

Starting point is 01:22:28 And we can get Charlie's opinion on it. We can get your opinion on it. And I can evaluate what's going on. Let's talk about the film. Okay. So one of the biggest questions people have about this is why, why was the, why is all the original footage and the telemetry data gone from the Apollo missions? But I want to clarify something first.

Starting point is 01:22:52 All of the footage that we have from the. moon. Was that shot on film specifically on film cameras, like 16mm film? We have, we had a 16 millimeter camera. We had a hustle blotch, which took photographs. And we had a TV that sent back television from the Loner Rover to Earth. Like a specific type of camera for television? Yeah, it was a television. camera that we mounted on the front of the rover. Okay, but this, this, the, then those don't use film. I'm not a camera expert. They don't use film. No, it's a TV picture. Okay, so just broadcast straight doesn't record anything on it. It's just live broadcast. It was recorded down here

Starting point is 01:23:39 in Mission Control. Okay, got it. Okay. Okay. I understand. But we didn't have a recorder on, well, we had, I'm not sure, but I don't think we had a recorder on board. Okay. So the TV cameras were recorded down at mission control. And those would have been recorded on tapes, I'm guessing. Right. And those would be the tapes that have been erased. Correct. Okay. So that was the incompetence of NASA allegedly. Well, or intentional, just like they intentionally destroyed the technology. They intentionally erased the tapes. So they know what they were. Those tapes. Their excuse was to make room for other projects. So Steve, if you ask chat GPT, let's ask chat GPT, what happened to the original tapes from the NASA missions.

Starting point is 01:24:26 And let's see what the answer it gives is. Well, that would be this right here. Oh, you already have it. Yeah. All right. The original tapes were later erased and reused. NASA routinely used magnetic tapes in the 60s through the 80s due to storage, cost, and shortages.

Starting point is 01:24:43 So that's crazy that the tapes from the lunar missions were recorded over. They're saying that the... Yeah, and they were recorded over right before. The locally recorded stuff was the slow scan stuff. Film, right? No, I think it was tape. It's actual tape like tape, you know, like tape recorders. Okay.

Starting point is 01:25:04 They use that technology instead of film. Yeah, with one inch video tape. That stuff was recorded over, but the stuff that they sent through broadcast survived. Well, that's what it is. Ron Howard, whose grandfather, warned him that the moon missions were fake. didn't listen, wanted to make an IMAX movie, and he requested all the original videotapes to be broadcast, projected on an IMAX screen about 100 feet by 120 feet, bigger than they've ever been done before. He wanted to use the originals, and it was between that request

Starting point is 01:25:39 and a couple of days later that everything got erased. He had to go to Blockbuster and rent VHS tapes and reduce them to this tiny portion of the screen, otherwise the image quality would be so bad. You can see the VHS tracking line. 90% of that movie is reenactments. Is that a fact that what year was this when Ron Howard requested the tape from NASA? I think it was around 1999, something like that. So around Steve, hopefully you can look this up. Ron Howard was working on an IMAX film in around 1999, requested the original tapes from NASA. And we, you're saying it is an absolute fact that we can look up that NASA erased those tapes. You just did.

Starting point is 01:26:22 Right after Ron Howard requested them? Well, that was my research at the time. My film at Sorrell.com took seven years to produce. I was given a million dollars by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows the Moomissions are fake, who thought it was his patriotic duty to expose it. Now, not only is it the first time in history that technology is, greater in the past and in the future. Not only is it the only time in history that all of the

Starting point is 01:26:51 documentation, all the technology, according to NASA astronaut, was intentionally destroyed. It's also the first time in history that nobody could repeat the event 50 years later. Imagine them splitting the atom in 1945, the first atomic bomb, and 50 years later, no one can split the atom, when in fact just 10 years later, atomic bomb. bombs were 1,000 times more powerful. So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt ahead of schedule with one millionth the computing power of our cell phone, we would have been on Mars 10 years later.

Starting point is 01:27:27 We'd be in another solar system by now, and there'd be bases all over the moon, taking people back and forth to play basketball in 16th gravity. The best NASA can do today is send mannequins to orbit the moon, when somehow we could play golf and drive cars on the moon, with 1960s technology on the first attempt. There have been six presidents who have said a total of nine times. They're going to return to the moon in five years.

Starting point is 01:27:58 You had Ronald Reagan said it, then Clinton said it, then Bush Sr. said it. Then Bush Jr. said it twice. And Obama said it twice. And Trump said it one time. And they can't do it. With 50 years better technology, they can't return to the moon. 50 years. But somehow they could do it with 1960s technology on the first attempt.

Starting point is 01:28:21 Why don't you think we've been able to go back to the moon since 72? Because they spent their money on other programs. Well, the government spends every month 70% more money than they take in. I'm not going to argue with you about this. We went to the moon. Six times we landed on the moon. You lied to the American public six times, which has the arrogance of the American. Well, then You don't believe we landed on the moon. You didn't know that before you got here. No, no.

Starting point is 01:28:52 His life's worked. So how did we get 600 pounds of moon rocks? Well, like I said. Let's talk about the moon rocks. Okay, let's put a pin there. Now, let's talk about the moon rocks. Okay. What evidence do you have, I know you have some, that proves that the moon rocks were not

Starting point is 01:29:09 actually moon rocks, right? Yeah. If you could find, let me find the clip here. Or you could look it up. Bar's position is the moonrocks aren't real. Let's go to Clip D7 real quick. This is a recent article about the French government. And they committed a crime in 1945 that they're still lying about today.

Starting point is 01:29:34 And what happened was their soldiers returned from World War II and wanting their back pay. And they refused to give it to them because they were black. And when they kept protesting, they machine gunned 300 of them in a single base and buried them. That just came out. That happened in 1945 and played the clip. And let's read this news article. It says one of the things that they did was they fabricated. What is that through the moon rocks?

Starting point is 01:30:04 Because it shows governments. It says they fabricated and destroyed evidence. So we're going to look at the fabrication. I'm just trying to find the clip here. It's out of sequence about the moon rocks. Or you could look it up. Look up fake moon rock in Amsterdam. Yeah, well, yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:23 So are the moon rock something that is available for the public to see? D-29. Yeah. I mean, the moon rocks are on display all over the world. And also they're still doing experiments on the moon rock. NASA's the lunar planetary institute or whoever it is. is controlling those and sending those out. People submit experiment requests still today about to do experiments on the moon rocks.

Starting point is 01:30:51 So there's still moon rocks available. And do they let outside researchers do analysis on them? Universities, yeah. Universities do? Yeah. Okay. I mean, they let universities have some. I'm not involved in that at all.

Starting point is 01:31:06 Right, right, sure. And, you know, I've been with NASA for a long time, but the moon rocks are unique. And they're radioactive whatever and not radioactive evidence, but the way they have been collected, they were collected on every mission. They were isolated when they got back and put in the lunar receiving lab. and now they're still being given out samples of people are still requesting samples of moon rocks. And NASA evaluates these experiments that they request. And apparently they're still giving some of it out.

Starting point is 01:31:52 I have been with NASA in a long, long time, so I don't know how it works today. So, Bart, how do you explain us having actual moon rocks here on Earth? Well, like I said, Von Braun went to Antarctica. There's a picture of him in Antarctica where he collected hundreds of. of pounds of lunar meteorites, which they use for fake moon rocks. NASA also has the most advanced ceramics lab in the world where they could take a rock and falsify micrometeorites setting it. And then go to clip 29. This is about moon rocks. It says they opened one up and it proved to be fake. Do you realize a few years ago, a 70-year-old woman was arrested by the FBI and thrown in a cell,

Starting point is 01:32:34 not allowed to go to the bathroom. She had to pee on herself because she had a paperweight with one speck of an alleged moonrock in the very center of it. And she couldn't pay her electric bill or mortgage. It was given to her by her husband who got it from someone at NASA. And the FBI surrounded her to get that so that it couldn't be opened and examined independently. And this is just the tiny speck of a moonrock. What was this woman's name? I don't know, but you could look it up. 70-year-old woman arrested for having a moon rock or trying to sell a moon rock. See me fine to see. And play clip 29. You said what's the proof of the fake moon rocks?

Starting point is 01:33:11 You have D29 there, Steve? Let's see it. Look at D29. It's a spill of the article. Okay, from the telegraph. Moonroff, given to Holland by Neil Armstrong is a fake. This is one that had complete chain of custody from the surface of the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to his pocket to the prime minister. of the Netherlands, hermetically sealed, opened a few years ago after someone watched my film

Starting point is 01:33:39 out of curiosity, and it ends up being this out-of-world-looking piece of petrified wood. Now, unless trees are growing on the moon, the moon rock is fake. And yet no reporter has the courage to ask if the moon rocks are fake. What about the moon missions? I had a reporter from the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story. I showed him the footage, which we're going to show of them faking being halfway to the moon that says don't show to the public at the beginning of it. You're all over the place. Yeah, but we'll get to that. The point is he agreed that it proved they never left Earth orbit, but he was forbidden

Starting point is 01:34:15 to publish it. Okay. We got to stick to one topic. Let's go back to the moon rocks. This piece of petrified wood that you were showing that was given to the prime minister of Holland, right? I thought it was a Dutch prime minister. The same thing.

Starting point is 01:34:27 Dutch is Holland. I thought it was like the Netherlands. The Netherlands, right. Correct. Okay, I've heard this story before. I heard you, I first heard it from you. I also heard a pushback on this that it was not Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong who gave it to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. However, it was the U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands that gave him this thing.

Starting point is 01:34:51 Well, from my understanding it went from... So it was not directly from him. Neil Armstrong is the one who said he picked it up. And it was on a visit of him. He visited to who? He visited the Netherlands. Netherlands and gave it to the Prime Minister. Okay, we should find this.

Starting point is 01:35:04 He claimed he picked it up and put it in his pocket. Let's find this. Who gave the Prime Minister of the Netherlands the fake moonrock? Who actually gave it to him? So for 40 years, everyone thought it was a moon rock. It was billed as a moon rock, picked up off the lunar surface by Apollo 11. They did a little tour around the world afterwards. He gave moon rocks to various people.

Starting point is 01:35:27 He gave one to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. It was sealed. It was opened up a few years ago. Okay, right here. It was proven to be a piece of... Bar, right here. It says, it says Prime Minister, okay, the Rock. The Rock was not given to the Dutch Prime Minister by astronauts, but was instead given to the former Prime Minister, William Dries,

Starting point is 01:35:45 by the then-U.S. Ambassador William Middendorf in 1969 during a Goodwill tour by the Apollo 11 astronauts. Okay, so the Rock was later found to be fake. And actually was a piece of petrified wood. Okay, so Neil Armstrong was there at the visit. That's when the rock was given. He claimed he picked it up. The prime minister of the Netherlands didn't pick it up.

Starting point is 01:36:09 Neil Armstrong picked it up. There he is. Apollo 11 astronauts during the good one tour. How do we know? We don't know that, okay, it says it was during the tour. Okay, so either Neil Armstrong of the children claimed to pick it up. So it's, it seems. It seems, it seems, hold on.

Starting point is 01:36:24 You claim the moon rocks your proof. Or you can't just keep talking over everybody, bro. It's like, it's too much. I'm sorry. It's too much. His point is that this piece of moon rock that was given to the prime minister of the Netherlands during the Apollo 11 Goodwill Tour by with Neil and Buzz was later and now analyzed and found to be petrified wood and not a moon rock.

Starting point is 01:36:48 That's his evidence that the moon rocks aren't real. Well, I brought back a couple hundred pounds, maybe. Moon rocks. I don't remember exactly. And they're very unique. They got a radiation history that is unique. They look anything like that? No. No. They look like, um, uh, look like charcoal and they don't look like that. Okay. They look like more gray charcoal. What was the biggest moon rock that you brought back? I think 25 pounds. Whoa. Like roughly, roughly how big that?

Starting point is 01:37:36 I had to roll it up my leg. It was so big. First EVA at Plum Crater. Is that a moon rock, right? Is that a real moon rock? We didn't collect anything like the one on the right. No? No.

Starting point is 01:37:52 Zoom out, Steve, see if we can find something that Charlie would think that looks like one of the moon rocks that he grabbed. Does any of this look like one of the rocks that you had? No. No? What if we Googled Charlie Duke Moonrock? Maybe Apollo 16 Moonrock. Oh, yeah, or Apollo 16 Moonrock, yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:18 Big Muley I picked up. Go left? Is that Big Muley? The one on the left. That one. Big Mule. No, the other one. To the left.

Starting point is 01:38:30 That one. Yeah. Uh-huh. That's a real moon rock. That's, I picked it up, yeah. That was a 25 pounder? I don't remember. No, I didn't weigh that much.

Starting point is 01:38:41 No. But I don't remember. We picked a total collection for Apollo 16 was probably a couple hundred pounds. And when you got him into the module, when you got the rocks in there, did you have them in any kind of specific bag or anything? We had them in, in vacuum, vacuum. boxes, a lot of them. Right. And then a lot of them were just in a, and I don't remember exactly, and none of them, whether we had had them brought back or just didn't have room for them in these rock boxes we call them. But most of them will put in rock boxes outside and so never saw

Starting point is 01:39:26 atmosphere inside. Right. So once you took your suit off, you weren't able to interact with them at all. You couldn't touch them. You could smell them. I don't remember doing any of that. No. What about once you got back to Earth? Did you touch them at all or hold them at all when you got back to Earth? We went into the lunar receiving lab where they were and we were able to put on gloves or whatever it was and sterilized that thing and just look at them. But I don't remember picking them up and tossing them around or anything like that. Were there any smells that you remembered?

Starting point is 01:40:03 Like, usually smells are good at triggering memories. Like, was there any specific smell that was strange to you about the moon, even when you got back in the... Well, we were pretty stinky, I can say that. A lot of BO. A lot of BO, but nothing else. No other interesting smells. No. Well, I mean, some of the food smelled.

Starting point is 01:40:23 You could, you know, smell a tuna salad or something like that. What about, like, dust or something? Like, dust from the moon on your suit or on your boot? or something, anything like that? No? I don't remember any smell from the, but it, sometimes it smelled, that was a gunpowder smell sometimes. What was that from? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:40:45 It's probably moon dust, but I'm not sure. Hmm. But it was, there has no organic material in it, like, like gunpowder. Right. So. Okay. Okay. So these, this moon rock debate is.

Starting point is 01:41:00 difficult because we don't have any moon rocks and we haven't done any uh analysis on any we picked up that one big muley okay yeah it looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left no um so it was given to this guy so i guess the story is the story is true i mean we've if we've corroborated it with other with a i and with bart's store with bart's article that that gift was given but it wasn't it was given by the u.s ambassador to the prime minister of the netherlands the one on the left The one on the left, yeah. And it was, he was told. That looked like any of the moon rocks we collected. Right, right.

Starting point is 01:41:38 But you said they were different in different landing sites earlier, that the rocks at your side and Apollo 11 were different. Were the rocks different in different landing sites? Do they look different? Not that I recall. Not that different. They're not that much different. Right.

Starting point is 01:41:51 Okay. Okay. The number one proof is what we have next. I'm answering your question about what proof there is. Now, I gave NASA the benefit. About what specifically? About how they didn't go to the moon. They can't leave Earth orbit.

Starting point is 01:42:05 They still can't leave Earth orbit. Are we talking about radiation belts now? No, I'm talking about the footage of them faking being halfway to the moon. Okay, the footage. If you show. I do after this, I would like to talk about the radiation belts if that's okay. That's next after this. Perfect. Right?

Starting point is 01:42:18 And so first, let's look at the slide, D8. This is at the beginning of the reel. I asked NASA for every video, every film from Apollo 11, figuring if they faked it, they're more likely to have made a mistake the first time they faked it. Now, keep in mind, I went from being the biggest fan, Gagga, worshipping the Apollo 11 project with pictures on my wall everywhere I went like a shrine, to having an open mind that maybe they faked it, to looking into it being given a million dollars by somebody who builds rockets for NASA, to investigate it, who said they were fake, and then stumbling to...

Starting point is 01:42:58 this evidence, which is what convinced me that they were fake. In fact, this footage was shown to two NBC news directors. They both agreed it proved that Apollo 11 never left Earth orbit, and they were threatened by the federal government not to broadcast it or to have their license pulled. So the first part you'll see in D8 is the slide that says not for public distribution. Oh, it's not popped up. Oh, there we go. Okay. So that shows that this is not for public. distribution. Now the next clip is at the very... Let's read it. It says this film of the Apollo 11 mission was produced as a report film by the manned spacecraft center and is not for general public distribution. Yeah, I asked NASA for unedited footage and everything I got was pre-edited with a

Starting point is 01:43:49 voiceover and it's the same footage over and over again on 10 different reels, exact same footage. Most reporters are satisfied with that. I'm investing. the possibility that they faked it, and I asked for everything, specifically unedited footage. I got this and one of the reel that was unedited. Now, at the very beginning of the reel, clip 9, which you're about to play, you'll hear NASA say, the TV picture looks great. Then there is exactly four seconds of dead air. You'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, presumably the CIA, and after four seconds go by, they tell Neil Armstrong and a private earpiece talk, and then he starts speaking because he's claiming that he is halfway to the moon at this

Starting point is 01:44:40 point in the mission. The timestamp indicates, according to the script, that they're supposed to be halfway to the moon. In fact, they never left Earth orbit. They can't leave Earth orbit now, and there's a number of reasons for that. So... Charlie, have you ever seen this footage before? No, it's crazy. Okay. Yeah, it is crazy how corrupt the federal government is. Well, I mean, you're calling me a liar. I never went to the moon. Well, obviously. I mean, what surprise? You knew who you were going to be here. I don't know who was going to be here before you got here.

Starting point is 01:45:11 12 of us. You act like it's a surprise. I am. I'm a surprise. I didn't realize that you thought it was all a fake. You knew that. You reminded me of our phone conversation 20 years ago when you walked in the door that I said we had, I had, you You quoted me, work for work. I showed you his website before you came down here. That I had proof that we didn't go to the moon. You knew when he invited you. This is no surprise. And yet you're acting like you're surprised.

Starting point is 01:45:35 This is why you should get the Academy Award. Now, the reason is if he's halfway to the moon, there would be an estimated two second radio time there and two seconds back. So they're faking a radio delay. Okay. You'll hear NASA. You'll hear four seconds go by. You'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronaut. prompt near Armstrong with talk.

Starting point is 01:45:58 And that way they can fake the four-second radio delay. Go ahead and play clip nine. Okay, so there's... And where did you get this stuff from again? From NASA. NASA sent you this. Bill Pacing... One second, one second, one second.

Starting point is 01:46:41 They sent it to you by mistake? Either that or someone, one of my sources at NASA who said the missions were fake, thinks a whistleblower sent it to me. Okay. And so... Hold on, Charlie, what do you make of that? I don't understand.

Starting point is 01:46:55 what he's talking about here, but the missions were not fake. No, what, okay. They sent me to the moon. And we understand that. You've been seeing that for 56 years. Hold on, Bart. The footage that we just watched was from Apollo 11. Could you hear it?

Starting point is 01:47:07 Can you hear it in your headphones? It's Houston communicating with the astronauts on the radio. And then you hear a four second delay. And then you can hear the audio of someone going, talk. And then you hear Neil Armstrong responding to Houston. Let's watch it one more time. Let's show Charlie one with them. Yeah, let's show them more time. Just read the text.

Starting point is 01:47:37 Two, three, four. Does that make sense? No. They can't leave Earth orbit today and they can't leave Earth orbit in 1969. So the footage is footage of the moon and you could hear Neil talking to Houston, right? In that video? Yeah, yeah. You could hear them talking. And there's a little voice that pops up after four seconds that says talk to Neil.

Starting point is 01:48:16 Why would there be a voice telling Neil to talk? Yeah. Okay. Are they on the moon or they? They're halfway, right? They're supposed to be halfway to the moon. So this is when they were halfway to the moon, communicating with Houston. And after Houston said something on the radio, there was four seconds and then somebody on the radio saying talk to Neil, instructing Neil to respond to Houston after four seconds.

Starting point is 01:48:41 Why do you think that would be? I don't know. Okay. I've in my recollection, I was in mission control for Apollo 10. I was Capcom. I was in mission control for Apollo 11. It's Capcom. And nothing like this ever happened in mission control.

Starting point is 01:49:05 No. There would never be anybody saying talk to anybody. It would just be as soon as you hear it, you would respond. Generally, that was true. Yeah. Okay. What were the exceptions? I can't think of any right now, but I mean, say again, Houston, or say a lot of reasons that mission control had, not mission control, but we had a problem of scratchy communications.

Starting point is 01:49:42 So if you couldn't understand. Yeah. Okay. Say again. Whatever. Yeah, except the quality, the EQ of the audio of talk is completely different. It's not obviously NASA who just spoke. And it's not Neil Armstrong who responded.

Starting point is 01:49:56 They're faking a four-second radio delay to pretend that they're beyond Earth orbit. So this is him. So Bart's position is that video with the voice coming in and saying talk is them trying to fake a four-second delay. That's part of his argument. So what I mean, I don't understand. That's just one of his arguments. Is there because you hear the voice come in and say talk, The talk comes in four seconds after Houston finishes their statement, right?

Starting point is 01:50:29 So the presumption from Bart is there's no delay, but the astronauts were instructed to wait for four seconds until someone else came in and said, talk. That way it would look like there was a four second delay and it would look like they were already halfway to the moon. Right, because if you play clip 11, Neil Armstrong, for the TV audience, the part that was shown to the public, says he's calling in from about 130,000 miles out. Right. Halfway to the moon. Go ahead and play clip 11. Hi, Roger. It's in the phone in from about 130,000 miles out. Okay, so that's him lying. He's not 130,000 miles out. He's still in Earth orbit. That's why

Starting point is 01:51:15 they fake the four-second radio delay. Now play clip 10. Is this the photo of them fake in the window thing? Almost. The one before. Okay, okay. Let's try to go through this. We have a lot to cover and we're almost two hours in. We have one window that has a view of... Okay, so go back to clip 11, the 130,000 miles out. Don't play the audio, but just bring up the image. And you can hit pause so we can see the image. So according to Neil Armstrong, there's only one window that has a view of the Earth

Starting point is 01:51:53 and it's filled up with the TV camera because if... Make sure you're talking to the mic. Oh, yeah. So if you were really halfway to the moon looking back at the Earth, Earth like this appears to demonstrate, even though it's a fake shot, you would have to have the lens of the camera to the window in order to shoot the Earth far away floating in space. He says, he's lying 130,000 miles out, and he says that the camera is completely filling up the window. That's a lie too. The camera is really at the back of the spacecraft. There's about 15 feet between the camera and the

Starting point is 01:52:29 window. They've turned out all the lights, which they talk about because they thought these conversations would be edited out, and that's actually the circular window of the spacecraft outside of which it's filled with the Earth and Low Earth orbit. One photographer, cinematographer, believes they took a transparency, a positive, a slide of the Earth, photographed from a satellite, and placed it over the window that was backlit by Earthshine. Now, if you play the final clip. Oh, the D-11, play it all the way

Starting point is 01:53:04 through to revealing. So play 11 one more time. There were two clips on 11. So this is supposed to be... Into the mic. No, just let it play at normal speed. This is supposed to be the Earth, but that's fine. This is supposed to be the Earth floating in space. This is the outtake.

Starting point is 01:53:23 That's why it said, do not show to the public. There's Buzz Aldrin, removing part of the effect in front of the window. That's a worklight. The camera has been at the back of the spacecraft the entire time. The iris is opened and you can see the real location and the very bright Earth out the window. They just faked being halfway to the moon.

Starting point is 01:53:45 My critics agree. That is them faking being halfway to the moon. Two NBC news directors agree. That is them faking being halfway to the moon. And they were told by the federal government, if they broadcast it, they would have their license pulled. So go to subbrel.com. All of these clips can be seen there for free.

Starting point is 01:54:07 This is what convinced me. I gave NASA the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible. And when I saw this, they are faking halfway to the moon. So if you could really go to the moon, why would you be faking any of it? And if you're faking being halfway to the moon, it's because you can't go halfway to the moon. and what a surprise. 56 years later, they still cannot leave Earth orbit, only mannequins can.

Starting point is 01:54:34 And we'll go on to Y next, which is the Van Allen radiation belt. All right, hold on. Let's put a pause there. So, Charlie, on your trip on Apollo 16, did you guys ever turn around and take film or footage or any photos of the moon, or I'm sorry, of the Earth when you were about halfway? I'm sure that we did. I don't remember specifically, but we were. If you were to take a video or a film of the Earth on your way to the moon, how would you do it?

Starting point is 01:55:09 Well, you'd turn a window to the Earth and there was a, I had a window right up here, which was a triangle, I had a window right over here. and in zero gravity, you had to hold a camera up to the window, towards the window. Okay. And the objects you had out there. So you could do it from any window. It dispensers on how you oriented the spacecraft. So, okay, so you would be able to orient the spacecraft while you're traveling to the moon to line up a window with the earth. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 01:55:44 Okay. And so roughly how big is, how big is that spacecraft? How big is the interior? Lesson to bring, if I'm in my couch, I can reach out and touch the, in my suit. And I could reach out and touch the side of the spacecraft. Okay. John Young on liftoff, it was madingly. I could, he was touching my shoulder.

Starting point is 01:56:09 And on the other side, he was touching John's shoulder. And John was reaching out and touching the side of the spacecraft. But the command module, roughly, roughly. command module. Yeah, the command and service module were coupled together. So there was actually more depth than that. Okay. No, no, not in the spacecraft. It wasn't. They were, they were, the service module was hooked to the command, the command module was sat on top of the service module, and you, and we received a lot of stuff from the service module. But the, the command module was a separate entity and, and didn't have a connection. They were electric.

Starting point is 01:56:49 electrical connections and service connections, but they weren't any pathway. You couldn't go there. You couldn't go there. Got it. Okay. And so you're saying it was roughly about maybe the length of this table, maybe a little bigger? This table probably wider than Apollo spacecraft was. Okay.

Starting point is 01:57:08 And so depth-wise about the table. So when you were, let's just say hypothetically, you're on your way to the moon on Apollo 16. You would look back, you want to take a shot of the Earth, at half-wise. way, right? You're halfway to the moon. How would you position the camera inside the spacecraft to shoot the earth? The first of all, you'd have to get a window looking at the earth. Right. Right. And you could get the window. You face the earth. There was a, there was a triangular window here and a window here for me. How, what was the shape of the other window for you? I think it was a sort of a triangular shape. Triangular shape. Okay. Anyway, you could get up there with a

Starting point is 01:57:48 camera and just look out and if if the spacecraft was not rotating the held position then you could just reach out and just start taking pictures with your hustleblot or the 16 millimeter camera we had we didn't waste film though and you would put it basically right smack dab up to the window no no sometimes you would okay okay depends on uh what you were trying to what you were trying to look at if the was out there and you wanted to get right closer you could see the whole of the earth you would you could get back and you could see you could still see the earth out there but it was like you were looking through a four foot of air in a spacecraft so you'd want to get up right next to it to get a good window yeah right and how fast was the craft moving at that point halfway it varied

Starting point is 01:58:41 it uh roughly well it took 72 hours to get to the the moon is 200 and something thousand miles. So on average, it, at 3,000 miles an hour. 3,000 miles an hour, okay. Okay, so this footage is, as Bart described from Apollo 11, and they have the camera. Steve, do you have, you have like a rendering of the, of the spacecraft? Yeah. Give me a second.

Starting point is 01:59:12 So we downloaded a 3D render of the interior of the spacecraft. And I want to see if it's accurate, first of all. This is it. So this was created by the Smithsonian. And it's supposed to be a perfect 3D render. Does that look? Does that look right? That's the hatch right there.

Starting point is 01:59:39 Yeah, that would be the hatch. And there was a window. And on the right side, I had a window. Well, on this side, wait a minute, I would be on the other side. So he was on the left side. Which Apollo mission is this rendering of? Do they have different ones for every Apollo? No, it's all the same.

Starting point is 02:00:00 They're all the same? Which is the number one window? This is specifically Apollo 11. This is specifically Apollo 11. Okay. So this would have been the same craft they were shooting from in that video that you provided. Okay. So which window, Bart,

Starting point is 02:00:15 Were they filming from based on this 3D render? You refer to it as the number one window. So, and it appeared to be circular on camera. And like I said, another cinematographer thinks they put a device over the window with a photograph of the earth. I don't see any circle windows at all in this. Was there a circular window in there, general? That's kind of like a square. It's like a rounded square.

Starting point is 02:00:40 And there might be a circular window and a hatch. I don't remember. So the hatch is missing here. So maybe that's what they were filming out of the hatch. Well, the hatch would be open. And sometimes you could, if you got right up close, you could see the hatch being. Yeah, I think you're right. The circular window was on the house.

Starting point is 02:01:00 So find a photo of the hatch for the lunar module and see if there was a... Not the lunar module, the command module. The command module, I'm sorry. Well, we already have them claiming that the camera's up against the window when, in fact, it's at the back of the spacecraft. Okay, so there's the hatch. It is a circle. It's a circle window.

Starting point is 02:01:17 Breaking down. I mean, you look at it where he says he's 130,000 miles out and the other, the second half of it, where they start fiddling with their hands in front of the window, it's this same shot. They claim it's 130,000 miles out. And then the moment later, you see it's the window being made up to look like the earth floating in space. Go back a couple of seconds. So you go, okay, pause it right there. Pause it right there.

Starting point is 02:01:44 So Charlie, move the guy out of the way of the window so we can still see the interior of the spacecraft. So that window straight ahead that's got like light glaring through it. It's circular. It looks circular, right? So that would be the hatch, right? That's the hatch. That's the hatch. Okay, so the camera is basically as far back as it can possibly be inside the command module. That's in the lower equipment bay it would be. The lower equipment bay. Okay, cool. Now play it so we can get a better idea of there are the camera, the camera The cameras are staying there and they're adjusting the exposure. Yeah, right there.

Starting point is 02:02:19 So there you can see. A moment ago, they claimed that was 130,000 miles out, the Earth floating in space. But it's not the Earth floating in space. It's the window being made to look like the Earth floating in space. So they're faking being halfway to the moon. So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went? This episode sponsored by Forkful. Most meal delivery services promise healthy food.

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Starting point is 02:03:16 Meals arrive fresh, never frozen, with clear nutrition and ingredient transparency, so you always know exactly what you're eating. Restaurant quality meals, real ingredients, no seed oils. Discover Forkful today at Forkful Meals.com. Halfway to the moon. Well, you don't even have to go that far, okay? Let's say, why are they shooting it from so far back? why wouldn't they put the camera up to the window?

Starting point is 02:03:45 We did at times, but sometimes you just want to look at the inside and what the guy is doing. Right, but if you go back, so you get over the other side of the spacecraft. Understood, but if you go back, they're showing it with the entire interior blacked out, Steve, if you rewind it.

Starting point is 02:04:01 Yeah, that's so that he can get exposure of the earth. If you got the outside, if you got the windows, not open, but uncovered, you're going to get light reflected from the earth and light from the sun into the space graph. Right. So go to the beginning.

Starting point is 02:04:18 Go forward a little bit more so it just shows you. So see, they're filming it. They claim that was the earth floating in space. It looks like they're trying, do you understand why Bart thinks they're trying to pull some sort of camera trick? They're trying to, it looks like right now, if you paused it right here,

Starting point is 02:04:33 and you showed that to me or any other dumb dumb like me, you would think that the black is just space, right? and that's just the earth floating in space. That's what it looks like to me. So hit play. And he's saying while they're filming it that they're 130,000 miles out. Which is not true.

Starting point is 02:04:58 So there's the earth. So it's like, wow, look how small the earth is way floating away in outer space. And it's pretty incredible. And then this is the same, you know, this is not cut. This is the same same footage. And the camera's sort of wobbling.

Starting point is 02:05:16 something weird in the top left corner, maybe a light. It's a work light that they diffused. So it went and throw light on the spacecraft walls. Now it's like now there's something moving in between the camera lens and the window. Yeah. So it's not space. It's just the interior of the spacecraft. It's right.

Starting point is 02:05:34 It's the window of the spacecraft being made to look like the Earth floating in space. Right. So if they are trying to pull a camera trick here, Bart, now look, you see the window's totally blown out. That's what it would look like. Right. Okay. They had the irish close. The hatch, the hatch, that's the hatch went, uh, the hatch window. Mm-hmm. And then there's another triangular window. Yep. And there was one on my side. There was another, I forgot exactly what the space was, but there was windows right here. And I could look out that window. Mm-hmm. And there was a, uh, on the other side, there was a docking

Starting point is 02:06:14 window, you looked out when you had to dock and it was a tri, I forgot exactly the shape, maybe a oblong rectangle or something like that. And then there was a round hatch window. And then there was a window on the left. I could look out my, I was on the right side and I could look out of the window. It was right there. And John Young had a window on the other side. And there was a hatch window above us.

Starting point is 02:06:40 And it was two windows up in beyond the, uh, uh, and the lower equipment bay. Mm-hmm. So, so Steve, go back, go back to where it's exposed

Starting point is 02:06:49 for the interior. So right there, that's the hatch window. Yeah. Is that how bright? Okay, move the hand. Okay. Is that,

Starting point is 02:07:01 how, would it be that bright? Yeah. A hundred and thirty thousand miles away. If that window was facing the earth at, at 130,000 miles out, is that how bright it would be? It's facing more to the sun than the earth.

Starting point is 02:07:13 Well, The video's claiming, according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the earth. That wouldn't be the earth wouldn't. That would not be the earth. That picture is not the earth. No. Well, it is the earth. That's the reflection off of the earth. That's earth shining.

Starting point is 02:07:26 Well, this is kind of incredible because he's saying it's not the earth. Well, it is. And clearly they just faked being halfway to the moon. Well, the video is saying. Because they're in Earth orbit, that's the earth out of the window. It's filling the entire window. Right. But listen, Charlie just said at 130,000 miles out, that is not.

Starting point is 02:07:43 not what it would look like. Okay. This video clearly is Neil Armstrong saying they're 130,000 miles out. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I understand. It's a fake shot. So that's why Bart believes that there's something weird going on. So if they were in Earth orbit, wouldn't you see the Earth moving by super fast, like clouds moving by? You would see land moving. They would be fly. If you look at footage from me. That's why David Percy, a cinematographer, award-winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a photograph from an unmanned satellite

Starting point is 02:08:19 and they had like a positive or kind of like an x-ray, but a color print that was translucent and they put it over the window. That's what they were removing when you see the yellow circle around the window. They're removing

Starting point is 02:08:35 the photograph. So it's a photograph that's being backlit by Earth's shot. Of the Earth with a Terminator line. They're shoving it in the window. little crescent piece of material into the window. I see what you're saying. To fake the terminal element, the dividing night and day. Okay.

Starting point is 02:08:49 So I don't understand the purpose of this conversation. So this video that we're watching right now, that you just watched, this is a video of Apollo 11. And Neil says in the beginning of the video that they are 130,000 miles away from the moon. So he said that he just said they're halfway. Yeah. And you just said, there's no way they're halfway. I didn't say that. Judging by looking at how bright that window is, you said if that's the earth, it wouldn't be that bright.

Starting point is 02:09:20 I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said that could be the sunshine in the end. No, no, but I'm saying if that was, if that window was facing the earth at 130,000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright if that was facing the earth. You would see the earth. You wouldn't see the, this is the sunshine and in. Okay, but okay, hypothetically, if that window was facing the earth, At 130,000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright a minute ago, right? The Earth was never that bright. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 02:09:53 You'd look out the window and you'd see the Earth. You just hung up there. Right. It wouldn't be blasting through the window like that. What about from Earth orbit? Would it be that bright from Earth orbit? Depends on where you are. So it might be that bright from Earth orbit.

Starting point is 02:10:07 Okay. Okay. Interesting. I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. Well, they're faking being halfway to the moon. Because he thinks this is a fake shot. He thinks that the, he thinks that this craft right here is in low Earth orbit. And they're trying to fake it by moving the camera back and exposing for the window to make it look like Earth is really far away.

Starting point is 02:10:31 And the surrounding inner spacecraft that's under exposed is just space. He thinks they're trying to make some sort of a camera trick to fake that they're halfway to the moon when they're really in low Earth orbit. That's what Bart's claim is. When you're in lower Earth orbit, you look out and your windows are face at the Earth. You look down and you just see nothing but Earth. Right. And you're quizzing by. Right.

Starting point is 02:10:53 You see that you can go over Australia. You can go over the Pacific. You look, it depends on where you are. And you're in a lower earth orbit. You look out the window. It might look something like that filling the windows with light. No. No.

Starting point is 02:11:07 It would not. Okay. Well, that camera's exposed. Only if the windows are pointed towards the sun. Right. Okay. I see. I see.

Starting point is 02:11:13 A moment ago you said it might look like that from Earth shine in Earth orbit. It depends on the exposure of the camera. The Earth shine, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Steve, what were you going to say? It looks like this, it's not the, it looks like so, because I'm also a cinematographer. And I would say that that window, that's probably the color of the window and the sun is, can you see this mouse? Yeah, the sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting them right there.

Starting point is 02:11:41 It's kind of hard to tell because he's got light bounce on. shoulder and he's got lines bounce on this elbow is likely hitting some part inside of the spacecraft and bouncing back and it's filling in his face over there it's lightly kissing the the shoulders here but you can always tell sunlight because you can just look for the brightest thing and that would be that ray shooting through so it's probably just veiling the glass and the glass is you can see there's color right there yeah and you can see there's a similar color right here So this one's getting the brunt of it. It is a blue.

Starting point is 02:12:15 I think it's a tint. And what you're seeing there is even when you back up over here, this is just a boca ball. A boca ball showing whatever the lens is seeing. And this texture is probably the cabling that you see later on. Or it could just be like imperfections in the glass. But that's just... That looks like the earth to me.

Starting point is 02:12:37 That looks like the earth to me too. But it's out of focus. Obviously it's not. It's the window. And it's got a perfect termination. line too. Go to the part where they're fiddling with it in front of the window. Go back another 15 seconds and hit play. It's it's misformed because it's uh so steve you don't think they're trying to film the earth here? I don't think so. I mean they're looking at the window and they're

Starting point is 02:13:00 definitely trying to film the earth. That's where they claim it's 130,000 miles out it's a duplicate of us. This is later on in the tape. It's very confusing. That's supposed to be halfway to the moon and now you see them breaking down the effect, removing the transparency of the photograph of the Earth in front of the window. The camera was never up against the glass. It was at the back of the spacecraft. They closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And here they are, removing part of the effect in front of the window. All right. This is what convinced to me and to NBC news director and an award-winning cinematographer and my critics agree.

Starting point is 02:13:37 It is Apollo 11, faking being halfway to the moon. Okay. So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went to the moon? And if they're faking being halfway, it's because they cannot go halfway. Right. They cannot leave Earth orbit and we'll go into why, which is the radiation belt that surrounds the earth. Which we're going to do. We're two hours in. We have an hour left, but coffee is here and I need to go to the bathroom. So we're going to take a quick break, coffee, bathroom break, we'll come back, talk about the radiation belts. Be right back. Okay, now we're going to talk about the radiation belts, the Van Allen belts. What is your position on the Van Allen radiation belts? Well, my position is what Von Braun's original findings were, which is that it's 250 times a lethal dose.

Starting point is 02:14:22 We have a quote from him in print that he says that if you do the math. And if you first show slide D12. Okay, before you get to D12, for people that don't know that are listening to Bartford. This is an image of the belt. So, yeah, the Van Allen radiation belts are basically large toronto. doughnut shaped pockets of radiation that exist about, what is it, a thousand miles out from the Earth? And extend about 30,000 miles. Extend about 30,000 miles.

Starting point is 02:14:52 And every single space shuttle launch, basically every astronaut and every space shuttle launch, every moonwalk that's ever, or I'm sorry, not moonwalk, spacewalk that's ever been done, has been done below that in low Earth orbit. The only astronauts, the only manned mission that has ever been outside of the Van Allen radiation belts is the Apollo mission. Is that correct? Yeah, gone through them. Yeah. If you look at D12, you can show the audience what they look like and how every manned space mission, Mercury, Gemini, Skylab, the space shuttle is well below it. And this field of radiation starts at 1,000 miles and extends about 30,000 miles. If you go to D-13, this is a press release from the Apollo mission that was given to the press.

Starting point is 02:15:42 They launched from Florida to be near the equator, and they go right out through the middle. You see that right at the equator. They go through the Van Allen radiation. Now, if the spacecraft, like General said, is going 3,000 miles an hour, and they're 30,000 miles thick, that would be 10 hours. the radiation to the moon and 10 hours back. I believe maybe the spacecraft was going a little bit faster, but in any case, it was at least two hours in the radiation to the moon up to 10 hours and another two to 10 hours back. Now, the Orion mission sent up Geiger counters into the radiation belts in 2014, unmanned, and they registered the radiation. I called NASA. I said I'm a

Starting point is 02:16:39 journalist. This is a non-military taxpayer-funded scientific mission. Can I please have the Geiger counter readings? They told me that was classified. They weren't able to tell me. Now, when NASA sent probes to the sun to find out the temperature of sun, the temperature wasn't classified. when they sent probes to Jupiter to measure the amount of helium in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount wasn't classified. So why would the amount of radiation inside the radiation belts and a spacecraft intending to one day send people to the moon, why would that radiation measurement be a classified secret?

Starting point is 02:17:19 Charlie, do you know why that would be classified? I didn't realize it was. So I would imagine that if it was classified, we would classify it because we wouldn't want the Soviets or the Chinese to know the actual level. of radiation like if you guys want to figure what is the point of this discussion to the point that we're discussing now is bart's position that the van allen radiation belts are too dangerous for human beings to pass through and survive it and he's building his case to why that is right now well you you have to accelerate the 25 000 miles an hour to get out of earth or of it okay okay

Starting point is 02:17:59 thought you said it was three thousand miles an hour let him talk he said he was at three thousand when they were halfway sorry you're slowing earth slowing you down okay so the total distance of the moon is about three thousand miles an hour seven times 70 that's 210 000 miles okay okay so when well so when you go through the ban allen belts you're going so fast it's just you're through how fast where are you traveling when you guys were going through the van allen belts you know velocity is about, let's see, I don't remember exactly 36,000 feet per second or something like that. NASA told me it was 17,000 miles an hour. No, that's Earth orbit.

Starting point is 02:18:41 That's Earth orbit? Yeah. Okay. Then you have to escape Earth orbit, accelerate. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was over 20,000 miles an hour to get out of Earth orbit. And so the S4B, the third stage. of the Saturn rocket you stayed attached to and that engine lit and pushed you out of Earth orbit on a trajectory to the moon through the Van Allen belts then that after that all was you shut you

Starting point is 02:19:13 separated you turned around and retrieved the lunar module from the third stage it was riding underneath the command module and service module so you you separated and you turned around and you came back in and you docked. And then you, when you got all the electrical connections made, you flipped a switch and it released all the bolts. And then you could back it out from the third stage of the Saturn rocket. Okay. When you guys were traveling through the Van Allen belts, were you guys paying close attention to, like, where in the Van Allen belts you were?

Starting point is 02:19:53 And also before you, before you, like when you were preparing, you guys did an unbelievable, an unbelievable amount of prep and training for this, right? What were the, for the whole mission, right? What were the conversations like during training with anybody, including Von Braun, about astronaut safety when it comes to radiation and the Van Allen belt? What were those conversations like? It wasn't very much conversation about it. It wasn't any danger.

Starting point is 02:20:26 You're going through so fast. You're exposed to so much radiation, but it's just a boom, you're through. You know, and the belts are high radiation, but they aren't very thick, so you just go right straight through them, and you don't get much radiation. I don't remember our dosemeters. We had dosemeters, several of them on our body and some in the spacecraft. I don't remember. And that measures the level of radiation?

Starting point is 02:20:53 That we're receiving, you know. Okay. Yeah, according to NASA, the radiation. belts are 30,000 miles thick. Right. And if you were going 20,000 miles an hour, that would be an hour and a half in the radiation to the moon. Would be an hour and a half.

Starting point is 02:21:06 It would be 30,000 miles would be, if a 30,000 miles would be, if a 30,000 miles an hour, it's a... Well, he said 20. No. Well, and if you start out at 25,000 miles an hour, but you slow down. Earth, gravity slows you in. At the time you're traveling through the Van Allen belts, through the outer part, the thick part, the Van Allen belts, how fast would you be going?

Starting point is 02:21:30 I don't remember exactly. Over 20? Yeah, over 20. Over 20,000. Well, then that would put you to the moon. So you'd be in for an hour, roughly. You'd be in the Van Allen belts for an hour. How thick or though, I don't remember how thick they are.

Starting point is 02:21:41 Well, according to that math would suggest that it's about an hour in there, right? Maybe a little bit more. Yeah, about an hour and a half to the moon, hour and a half back at 20,000 miles an hour. But then there's a contradiction. If you're going 20,000 miles an hour with inertia, you'd be at the moon in a little over 10 hours rather than three days. But they slow down, right? Don't they slow down? Allegedly, once they got to the moon, obviously they would have to slow down to land on the moon.

Starting point is 02:22:05 Now, the- May I say something? Yes, yes. Okay, so you leave Earth orbit. You're in Earth orbit. You've got to accelerate to leave Earth orbit. Correct. I don't remember exactly the figure, but you accelerate to Earth.

Starting point is 02:22:20 Then the Earth starts slowing you down. Okay. At what point does it start slowing you down exactly? As soon as you shut the engine off. Okay, but you're at beyond that you're, you had enough velocity to get out of Earth orbit and go straight to the moon. Or you got shot out in front. It's like being a shotgun shooter. Here's your aim in this way, but here's the target by the time you get there, you're in orbit.

Starting point is 02:22:50 I mean, you get there so you can get into orbit. And I lost my train of thought now, but what was so that it was never a problem with us about being in the Van Allen belts. You go through so fast you don't get that much radiation. So you guys never had a conversation about what trajectory to take through the Van Allen belts because they can be thinner at the top and they're wider at the equator, right? So you guys never like decided we got to go through it at this angle or that angle. We never, the crew had no say. Got it. Mission control major trajectory.

Starting point is 02:23:28 And you weren't aware of it at all either. Yeah, we knew when we were going through the Van Allen belts. Oh, you did know when you were going through the Van Allen belts. Okay. And I think that I don't remember exactly, but we had decimeters in the spacecraft and they must have read something, but I don't remember the details. Okay. We have clip 14 of Kelly Smith of the Orion Project, which they said the radiation readings were classified. Here's a video of a new generation of NASA astronauts. We saw one saying they

Starting point is 02:23:59 intentionally destroyed a technology for the first time in world history. And here we have the young guy in his 20s saying that the belts are dangerous radiation and the technology to go through them has not been invented yet. And this is from 2004. This video he's about to play is from 2014 during the buildup to the Orion missions, right? Mm-hmm, D-14. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station. As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of

Starting point is 02:24:45 dangerous radiation. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. Okay, so he said we must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. So the radiation protection is a challenge that has yet to be resolved. We must solve these challenges in the future before we send people through this region of space.

Starting point is 02:25:26 space. So the challenges of the radiation have not been resolved and they must do it before they send people through this region of space. So that right there. So we never went to the moon. Well, what do you, no, no, what do you make of that though? Like what do you make of this astronaut in 2014 saying that we have to solve the challenges of radiation before we send people to the Van Allen belts? What is your reaction to that? Through the Van Allen belts? Is that what he's saying? Does he say through?

Starting point is 02:25:59 Yes. No, he said into this region. I believe he said, Oh, yeah, I wouldn't want to orbit it. He said through this region of space. Can you play it again? Can you say exactly what he says again? Do you say through or through?

Starting point is 02:26:10 We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. Through this region of space is what he said. Yeah, onto the moon. The project is Orion, which intends to send people to the moon. through this region of space. Was Orion? Was that the objective of Orion to send people to the moon? That's right. It was the precursor to Armitus.

Starting point is 02:26:30 So it's all about returning to the moon. Google, what was the objective of the Orion missions? The objective of NASA's Orion mission was to transport human crews on deep space missions starting with a return to the moon under the Artemis program and eventually extending to Mars. Orion is designed to provide long-duration

Starting point is 02:26:50 crew support, protect assets, astronauts from deep space radiation and handle high-speed re-entry into Earth's atmosphere. Okay. Mars makes more sense because you're going to be out there for way longer. Well, look at article. Well, he's talking about the Van Allen about just through this region of space, which is the Van Allen Radiation Belt. Yes.

Starting point is 02:27:08 We must solve the radiation challenges, which means they're not solved. And then he says, before we send people through this region of space. So if they haven't been resolved yet, then the Apollo astronauts didn't go through them. Well, it's just so right there. It's definitely, I'm not saying that the astronauts never went to the moon. I'm not, I'm in the middle here. But it is very weird that a guy in 2014 would say we have to solve the problem of the Van Allen Belt's radiation before we go through. It's odd, right?

Starting point is 02:27:39 Sounds like to me it's odd, but we did it. Right. Okay. Well, that's why I'm saying you did not. Right. Obviously. Where did 200 pounds of moon rocks come from? I just showed you. Von Braun picked him up from Antarctica. There's a picture of that on the web,

Starting point is 02:27:56 picking up lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time. Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon rocks have proven to be fake. And according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he says NASA has ceramics land which can mimic moon rocks. Now, go to Link 15 as we stay on the radiation. This is an article from Reuters that says radiation prevents travel. to the moon. That's slide number 15. Well, I walked on the moon. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm John Young. You keep saying that. We know that. We've been saying it for 56 years and you're not going to admit your guilt. Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial for what crime ever admitted to the guilt either. We're going through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze

Starting point is 02:28:43 what it means and let the audience decide. And a lot of this, I realize you haven't even seen yet. Like, obviously, you hadn't seen that video of that guy in 2014 saying, we have to solve these issues. But it's weird. And that's the case he's making, this is, some of these videos that we're playing are some of the reasons that people are questioning it. Go ahead and play it. Do you know how fast you're going when you leave Earth orbit? How fast? Guess.

Starting point is 02:29:11 25,000 miles per hour. You said 3,000 miles. You said 20,000 miles. No, he didn't. He said, no, Bart. He did not. He said that they were going 25, I think 25 or something like that. or 30 when they were leaving Earth orbit and then they slow down and there's different speeds

Starting point is 02:29:24 along the pathway, along the journey. Okay. Well, let's read this article heading and what's highlighted. You leave Earth orbit. I think it was 25,000 miles an hour. You accelerate the 25,000 miles an hour. You leave Earth orbit and then from there on, you start slowing down. Right. Okay. Okay. And then when you get to the moon, you accelerate because lunar gravity takes over and you accelerate. And so you're going too fast when you get there. If you're around and bring you home. So you put the engine in the front. Right.

Starting point is 02:29:58 And you point in direction you've come from and you burn the engine six minutes or so to slow down to get into lunar orbit. Okay. So at 25,000 miles an hour, inside something 30,000 miles thick is over an hour. No, no. You're not going that fast when you get to the moon.

Starting point is 02:30:16 Okay, but you said you went through the Van Allen radiation belt at 25,000 miles an hour, but then you slow down. Okay, but that's not the issue. The issue is you were inside the belt because they're 30,000 miles thick for over an hour. An hour and 15 minutes going to the moon and an hour and 15 minutes coming back, would anyone survive getting an hour and 15 minutes? Charlie survived. Well, that's one of the reasons why he didn't. Read this article, what's keeping us from Mars? Space radiation says expert. You want to read that? Because you're blocking me. What does it say? I can't see because of the play thing. Go ahead. Take it from the top and hit play. It says Washington Reuters by by Maggie Fox,

Starting point is 02:31:00 Health and Science Editor. Cosmic rays are so dangerous and so poorly understood that people are unlikely to get to Mars or even back to the moon until better ways are found to protect astronauts, experts said on Monday. So if the radiation is too severe to travel to the moon today with superior equipment, how did you go 50 years ago with inferior equipment? We did it. Well, we know that. You've been saying that for 56 years. What are you aware of? I'm still here. What are you? Which is proof you didn't go through the radiation. Charlie, what sort of what I went to the moon. We picked up, we picked up moon rocks. Was there any sort of special shielding or materials used on the exterior shell or the hull of the spacecraft to protect from radiation? Nothing. Okay. Not in our memory.

Starting point is 02:31:56 D16 is a quote from Van Allen who discovered the belts about the magnitude of the radiation. Play D16. Here's, here's the guy who discovered the belts. They're named after him. And read what he says about the radiation. Okay. This is from Dr. James Van Allen. He said this in 1959. Our measurements show, can you hear me, Charlie? He said our measurements show that the maximum radiation levels as of 1958 is equivalent to between 10 and 100 rinktkins per hour, depending on the still undetermined proportions of protons and electrons. Since a human being exposed for two days to even 10 rogton's would have only an even chance of survival. The radiation belts obviously present an obstacle to space flight.

Starting point is 02:32:54 And then read the bottom part. But this has two days exposed for two days to even 10 rochkins. They were only in there for an hour, a little over an hour each way. But read the math underneath it. So, okay. 10 to 100 rotkins per hour averages to a bit. about 10 to 100 Roetkins per hour averages to 50 per hour. Okay.

Starting point is 02:33:18 At the claimed speed of the Apollo craft, this is not James Van Allen saying this. This is somebody, who else who's saying this? Well, this is the person who wrote the article. Okay. So this person who wrote the article said that at claimed, at the claimed speed of the Apollo craft, this would be two hours in the radiation to the moon

Starting point is 02:33:38 and two hours in the radiation back the moon or 200 rhodkins since 10 rodgans over two days will kill you which is 0.2 rodgans per hour the radiation belts are 250 times a lethal dose so that's one reason okay where can we this is on your website where can we find this what's the purpose of this discussion this is saying this is barb is claiming that james van allen himself said that the amount of radiation that you would get traveling through the belts would kill you. He said this in 1959. How fast would be?

Starting point is 02:34:20 How fast is he saying? How fast is he say we're going? It just says the amount of time. He's talking about the amount of time. He's saying two hours. Radiation is built based on strength and time of exposure. So he's saying the Apollo astronauts. How thick of the belts?

Starting point is 02:34:35 30,000 miles. The Van Allen belts are 30,000 miles thick? Yes. Google it. Let's Google it. How thick are the Van Allen radiation belt, Steve? It may be more than that. They keep claiming they discovered extra layers of it that actually add to the thickness. So I'm supposed to be dead. Allegedly.

Starting point is 02:34:58 If we went through the belt. But let's check his pulse. So we didn't go through the Ran Allen belt. Let's see. According to Kelly Smith, you did not. This says, solve these challenges before you go through. The thickness of the Van Allen belts varies. The inner belt is from, okay, don't tell me all this.

Starting point is 02:35:14 Okay, this says the outer belt is for 8,000 to 37,000 miles. So they fluctuate, but at the maximum 37,000 miles thick. So that means you guys would have had over two hours of exposure to the belts. Did James that the Van Allen belts, did he say that the radiation belt would kill you? Well, this is Google AI. It's going to be biased. Yeah, I mean, how does it know? Lincoln was the 16th president. It was a program to say that. Right. It's reading.

Starting point is 02:35:49 It's reading from other articles. Now the next issue, yes. This is anecdotal stuff, but like we have to acknowledge that the vast majority of anyone writing about the Apollo missions or any government agency is going to say that James Van Allen didn't say this and Google AI is pulling from this overwhelming amount of stuff that's written online. So that's that's one reason why they can't leave Earth orbit. And another reason is they don't have enough fuel. And My book, Moon Man, on page 149, here's Von Braun saying it himself. There's not enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. Let's hear it.

Starting point is 02:36:24 It is commonly believe that men will fly directly from the Earth to the Moon. But to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. Calculations have been carefully worked out on the type of vehicle we would need for the nonstop flight from Earth to the Moon in return. The figures speak for themselves mathematically. Three rockets would be necessary, and each ship would be taller than the Empire State Building, 100 stories. Polarocket was about 30 stories, and weigh about 10 times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or 800,000 tons times three.

Starting point is 02:37:07 The Saturn 5 weighed 2,500 tons. That's a difference of 30,000 percent times three. Now go to clip 18 and you'll see that Elon Musk just said. All right, Bart, pause. Where did you get that quote from? It's from his book, Voyage to the Moon, written by Von Braun. Is there a way we can find that quote on the internet? Probably.

Starting point is 02:37:30 I mean, we bought an old copy of his book and it was written by him and quoted by him. If it's on the internet, Steve, you'll find it. What's the purpose of this discussion? You don't know. The purpose of this discussion is a... that we didn't go to the moon. Allegedly, that's what I'm taking. If you're acting like you don't know,

Starting point is 02:37:50 it just proved that you're acting during the interview. So he's not the only one who said you need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. So Von Braun, he's saying Von Braun himself was quoted saying that the Apollo missions would need multiple fuel. Three rockets, each one 30,000 percent heavier than the Saturn 5 rocket. Yeah. And then Elon Musk said about six months ago, if you go to clip 18, he said the starship, which is three stories taller than the Apollo rocket,

Starting point is 02:38:20 and with the boosters on the side, carries twice the fuel as the Apollo rocket. He says it will take 15 launches or the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets in order to leave Earth orbit. We even have a video clip of Von Braun saying everything, the best rocket he can build can only leave Earth orbit. Let's play that clip. Let's play the clip of Von Braun from the horse's mouth. Let's get what he's saying. What clip number is that so Steve can find it? That one I didn't include, but how can we how can we find it? Just go to subrel.com. It's one of the links of the book. I don't understand this conversation. Well, read this article. I understand. I understand that's your position that you did it and you went and you walked in the moon and you brought back the moon rocks. But why would Von Braun say that? that it was impossible to get to the moon without multiple fuel trips. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:39:19 I never heard him say that. Well, we got a video allegedly. Well, and look at the clip of Elon Musk. I want to see the clip of Von Braun. Show us where to find the Von Braun clip. Let's stick to one thing at a time. Says he doesn't have it. Well, if you go to subro.com and then go to Moonman Links.

Starting point is 02:39:35 S-I-B-R-E-L. Look for the one that looks like old 1950s color. And there's one of Von Braun. I don't know what clip it is. But in the meantime, while you're doing that. No, no, no, wait, wait. You're getting too far ahead of yourself. We're here.

Starting point is 02:39:47 Now, where do we go? Scroll down. Keep scrolling. Just keep going. Keep going. Maybe you can find it on there. Maybe you can find it on YouTube or something. Yeah, I decided not to bring it.

Starting point is 02:40:00 But Von Braun says the largest rocket that we can build, it's with Disney film, can only achieve Earth orbit. He says it word for word in a quote from my book. And now we have Elon Musk, if you go to the clip of, uh, D18, he's saying the very same thing. Look at D18. Read this headline and read the highlighted part. Okay, this is a headline from spacepolicyonline.com. Okay, at least 15 starship launches needed to execute the Artemis 3 lunar landing.

Starting point is 02:40:34 SpaceX will need to launch at least 15 starships to execute the Artemis 3 lunar landing, NASA said today. So NASA said, so SpaceX will need 15 starships to execute it, says NASA. Right. And they carry twice the fuel. Starship cannot fly directly to the moon, but must refuel in Earth orbit before setting out for deep space. Yeah, that's what the clip of Von Braun says that I didn't include, that you can go to the moon if you do multiple trips of fuel and ferry the fuel first. And now you're going to love this next clip. go to clip 19. This was said less than a year ago by a rocket scientist who works with NASA.

Starting point is 02:41:18 And he says it's going to take possibly more than 15 trips of fuel in order to leave Earth orbit and go to the moon. So we did do it. It's what you're saying. I don't know why. You keep acting surprised. You're just proving you're acting. You know, you came in here and reminded me of a phone call we had 20 years ago. when I said, I have proof we didn't go to the moon when I found the footage. So, okay, who's this guy? Yeah. And how people communicate about it.

Starting point is 02:41:49 Like, there's some architecture problems that people are unwilling to talk about these days because of how they got there politically. And I was like, you know what? I just want to go say the thing that nobody's saying. So that's what I decided to do. Now, a lot of people I respect when I was doing my research and asking these questions, they said, be careful, Destin. If you say certain things, this might change your relationship with NASA

Starting point is 02:42:10 forever and I thought about it and I decided you know what this is the truth and this is what needs to be said I did not understand until this week when I really thought I was going to embarrass myself in front of you guys and then decided to further embarrass myself in front of you guys I didn't realize that in order to get the human lander to the moon we have to launch a bunch of additional rockets to tank up in low Earth orbit I didn't know that And I'm like, well, how many rockets do we have to do that with? And they're like, pause six. And then I start because I...

Starting point is 02:42:47 Who is this? He's a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA. What's his name? I don't know. That would be important. That guy, he's a YouTuber, he has a channel called Smarter Every Day. Smarter every day on YouTube. Okay.

Starting point is 02:43:02 So he's saying it's going to take multiple... Let's finish playing the video. Yeah. I know people. I start calling people. I was like, dude, really, how many? rockets is it? They're like, well, boil off. And, okay, so I was like, some people are like, well,

Starting point is 02:43:16 it's looking like eight. I was like eight rockets? We have to fire eight rockets to fire one rocket to the moon. Then they're like, I mean, that's what they're saying, but it's probably more like 12. Really. And then I was like, you know, I'm an engineer. I know how to do this stuff.

Starting point is 02:43:31 So I started to do a count for like nominal schedule slip and boil off. And this is how many rockets is going to take to fuel up that thing to get it to the moon. I've done the math. If you had any questions. I found the Von Braun clip. It's D-17 there, Steve. Okay.

Starting point is 02:43:45 Von Braun says the biggest rocket you can build can only achieve Earth orbit. You need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. Okay. Says it on camera as well as in print. All right. This will be good for Charlie to see. Charlie, watch this one. Here to reveal a plan for a trip around the moon

Starting point is 02:44:05 is the chief of the guided missile development at the United States Army's Redstone Arsenal, Dr. Werner von Braun. A voyage around the moon must be made in two phases. A rocket ship taking off from the Earth's surface will use almost all the fuel it can carry just to attain a speed great enough to balance the pull of gravity. Unpowered, it will then keep circling the Earth in an orbit outside of the atmosphere. This is the first phase.

Starting point is 02:44:36 However, if we can refuel the ship in this orbit with fuel brought up by cargo rocket ships, rocket ships, it can set out on the second phase, the trip around the moon and back. So three people just said, Von Braun said it twice, that you have to make ferried fuel trips to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. You had him say it on camera, you had Elon Musk say it, and you had a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA saying it. He also said, I just discovered this, because he is taking the Apollo launches on faith. You know, my bank webpage says that my money is backed by the faith in the United States government that kills their own presidents, kills their own soldiers, and fakes moonlandings, right?

Starting point is 02:45:28 So, Charlie, what do you make of that video of Von Braun saying that that you would need to refuel in Earth orbit to get all the way to the moon? He said it would take all the fuel in the rocket. to get that orbit around the Earth, and then you would need to refuel again before going to the moon. I've never heard that before. Actually, they built a Saturn 5.

Starting point is 02:45:52 Yep. And the Saturn 5 lifted off, and the third stage, you stayed attached to the third stage, and you were on the front end with that with the command model, service module, lunar module. You fired out of Earth orbit and you got your and you started waves of the moon.

Starting point is 02:46:13 So that's the end of the Saturn 5. Right. S4B. Okay. Okay. It opened up. The pedals opened up and exposed the lunar module. You separated the command service module and then beneath it, these flowers opened up and they

Starting point is 02:46:33 exposed the top of the lunar module. So you had made a 180 degree turn. and you came back in and you joined up with the top of the lunar module. That was the docking ring. And you docked, you latched all the latches, made sure you were connected correctly. You hit a switch, you hit a switch and knew of some sort and it released the lunar module. And then you just backed it out with your reaction control system in the command service module. And then so that was a condition you went to the moon in a barbecue,

Starting point is 02:47:18 sometimes in a barbecue, with the lunar module attached. And we went into it to check it out, make sure there was no leaks, this and that, and the other. But then we closed it back up again, and then we didn't go in again until we got into lunar orbit. We got into lunar orbit. And John and I, I was the first one in, and I'd put on my spacesuit, except for helmets and gloves, and took those with me, and then we went into the lunar module, and I started powering up. And that, I forgot exactly how long that took, but it was several revolutions. And John came in, and when we got ready, we put on our helmets and gloves, and pressurized to make sure everything was pressurizing. of suits to make sure everything was okay. And when everything passed, we just, I forgot whether

Starting point is 02:48:16 Maddingly hit the button or we hit, it was Maddingly, and he just released us. And we just backed off. Well, Von Braun in my book, Moon Man, he said that these numbers are mathematically irrefutable. The numbers speak for themselves. Things become more fuel efficient over time. So it's taking a tremendous amount of more fuel to go to the moon now than in 1969. Von Braun said it's impossible twice, once in writing, once on camera. Elon Musk with a rocket that carries twice the fuel of the Apollo rocket, says that you cannot go unless you make 15 fuel trips first, which is an equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets. And we just heard a rocket scientist say, he may get in trouble with NASA for saying this,

Starting point is 02:49:04 but it's going to take 15, 20, up to, you know, 28. I counted all of them in the graphic. Yeah. 28 clips to go to the ships to go to the moon. The next three clips I have are people like Kelly Smith and Don Pettett, modern day astronauts, and they say the farthest they can go is Earth orbit. This is clip D20, and they hope to eventually go to the moon. Play D20.

Starting point is 02:49:30 it's real short. What's the point of this discussion? We did not go to the moon? You're just digging your hole deeper every time you say that, General. So Bart, when it comes to... Wait, wait, wait. So Apollo was all faked. According to Bart, yes.

Starting point is 02:49:47 It was all faked. It was a big propaganda campaign during the Cold War. And so we had 260-something pounds of moon rocks that were brought back. They're all faked. I guess Bart hasn't seen them, hasn't. analyze them. Yeah, you remembered word for word, a telephone conversation we had 20 years ago and at the beginning not recorded and somehow you can't remember what we said a half an hour ago that the moon rocks are fake. We showed an article. Von Braun picked up hundreds of pounds in Antarctica

Starting point is 02:50:18 right before the Apollo mission and according to a contractor, they can manufacture them. Go to clip D20. Just let me make it. I was in delusion for two. weeks. I was on the moon for three days. Well, you said you have top secret clear. Wait, just a minute, just a minute. And I picked up 200, I think we picked up a couple of hundred pounds of moon rocks. And we brought them back. They've been analyzed. They're moon rocks. And so I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. Why are we going back and saying Apollo was so fake? Why does an Apollo astronaut have top secret clearance? I didn't have top secret clearance.

Starting point is 02:51:07 Oh, okay. I thought you said that. I mean, we had nothing in Apollo that was classified. But I did have a clearance from my military time when I was before NASA, and I did have a top secret clearance then. Okay. Okay. Clip D20 is a modern-day shuttle astronaut saying the farther stay can go is Earth orbit, and they hope to eventually go to the moon, D-20.

Starting point is 02:51:42 D-20. Let me look at it. So when it comes to the evolution of rockets and technology, it's not necessarily that the Saturn rocket would be impossible to make, like it wouldn't be physically impossible. But an argument would be that it's logistically impossible because today in 2025, we don't have the same machines. We don't have the same talents.

Starting point is 02:52:10 We don't have the same trades that we had that were available in the 1960s. Because they destroyed it. The world has evolved. The economy has evolved. We do things differently now. Objectives have changed. Now we're focusing on building reusable. So the Saturn was not a reusable rocket, right?

Starting point is 02:52:29 So now we're trying to save money developing a new style of rocket. So that would be a compelling argument to why we haven't gone back to the moon is because we build rockets differently because the objectives have changed. Well, all I know is what Elon Musk says for a rocket that can carry twice the fuel of the Saturn 5 Apollo rocket, it's going to take 15 launches to a fuel station first in order to have enough fuel to the fuel to the fuel that's a fuel that's a fuel that's a fuel. to leave Earth orbit to go to the moon. He said it. The rocket scientist just said it. Von Braun said it on camera. Von Braun said it in writing. And we're about to look at a shuttle astronaut who says the farthest they can go with the technology we have is Earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon. That's clip D21. It's real short. So that's smarter every day,

Starting point is 02:53:20 that's that YouTuber, that smarter everyday YouTuber. He was the out of context it sounds the way it does, but he was, here I'll pop it up here. Okay. So he was, his name is Destin, and he was talking about how poorly planned the current moon mission is that they, and he was pointing out that this particular starship, HLS, which is the return rocket, is this thing right here, it is so heavy that their, their plan isn't going to work out. And so he did to math, uh, with the current.

Starting point is 02:53:56 weight and and he's and that's why he said it's not going to work out you need all these rockets so here's the weight of this uh thing that they want to build this is a different a different rocket this is the one that they haven't built yet but they want to it's 100 tons okay and then the original apollo lander was 33 000 no no no the moon lander oh the moon lander was 35000 33 000 33,000. We're talking about the rocket to leave Earth. Let's talk about the lander. This is the lander.

Starting point is 02:54:26 So to have a sad rocket carry just 35,000 pounds is nothing. That rocket cannot carry 100 tons. So what is this? The dry, empty weight of the starship human landing system is approximately 100 tons. So they're saying that this rocket would need to carry something that's 100 tons compared to the Apollo lander, which was 33,000 pounds. Yeah, that's the, if I hadn't got it. That's an important, important context. Well, Von Braun.

Starting point is 02:54:56 I don't know anyone who knows more about it than Von Braun. Well, Von Braun was talking about 33,000 pound lander. What this astronaut that you just showed us talking about, talking about all the refueling, you have to understand the context that the lander that they're talking about shooting off into the moon was 100 tons according to this. Well, that would make sense that they would need more fuel. If I hadn't been to the moon in 57 years, I would go just, it's, efficiently as humanly possible. And for the first time in history, technology was destroyed.

Starting point is 02:55:29 The lunar modules, schematics, the original videotapes. Right, we've talked about this. It's all been destroyed, right. Again, you don't do that unless you're covering your tracks. And we have Elon Musk saying it's going to take 15 chips. You have that guy saying it's going to take up to 28. You had Von Braun say, okay, Von Braun was the designer of the Center 5 rocket. he says it's going to take multiple fuel trips to go to the moon.

Starting point is 02:55:54 If that's what it takes today, then that's what it would take then despite the design. Because Von Braun was talking about the lunar module. He's the one who ended up designing all of that stuff. And he says that equipment is going to take multiple fuel trips to leave Earth orbit. Right. But again, this thing weighs 100 tons they're trying to bring to the moon. So back then, when Charlie went to the moon, allegedly, the goal was to beat Russia, right?

Starting point is 02:56:23 All they cared about was getting man on the moon to show the world that America was the number, was the world leader in technology and science and was more superior to Russia, right? You could make the argument that the primary goal of the Apollo missions was to just show the world that were better and just show that we can actually physically put a human being on the moon. You're right. Now, right, right. Doesn't mean it had to have been fake. It, what it could mean is that we just wanted to get people on the moon no matter what we could do it with the most efficient light equipment possible. Now, if we wanted to go back today in 2025, we would have a different objective. We would want to get more done. It wouldn't just be about putting a person on the moon and broadcasting that to the world. It would be about something far greater, like populating the moon or something like this. So it would require. different technology. It would require bringing different things to the moon. And it would also require maybe not taking such a risk, right? Like they obviously, that was a big risk going there in 69 and bringing human beings there. Today, today you could argue that we wouldn't want to make

Starting point is 02:57:38 that level of a risk. Okay. So in writing and on camera, Von Braun talking about the future Apollo rocket, the first rocket to go to the moon. That's the one he was designed. designing. That's the one he said it would take three rockets weighing 30,000 percent more than the Saturn 5 rocket. That's what he said on camera. The first rocket to the moon, which is the one they claim they used. It can only go into Earth orbit. And then it would take multiple fuel trips in order to go to the moon. That's the first one, not the current one, right? Then we have also Elon Musk saying multiple fuel trips. We have that guy saying multiple fuel trips. That's for, you know, whatever spacecraft, just to get there in land, it's going to take all of that fuel, multiple fuel

Starting point is 02:58:22 trips. They set it back before the Apollo rocket, and they're saying it to, quote, return to the moon. And clip D20 is a space shuttle astronauts saying Earth orbit is their limit. That's why they're faking being halfway to the moon in that clip we showed for radiation. We must solve these challenges before we go through that region of space. Here's an astronaut in Clip 20, saying the farthest they can go with current, technology is Earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon. Okay, let's watch it.

Starting point is 02:58:54 30 seconds. Can fly in Earth orbit. That's the farthest that we can go. And this new system that we're building is going to allow us to go beyond and hopefully take humans into the solar system to explore. So the moon, Mars, asteroids, the moon, Mars, asteroid, the moon, Mars, asteroids. There's a lot of destinations that we could go to and we're building these building block components in order to allow us to do that eventually, of actually, of actually, of actually.

Starting point is 02:59:23 Right. Yeah. He says eventually go to the mount. Sure. And he's not the only one. There's two other short clips. I mean, if he's misspeaking, then we have three people miss speaking. The next one says this is the beginning of humans leaving Earth orbit.

Starting point is 02:59:38 That's clip D21. The beginning of Earth, of humans leaving Earth orbit is what this astronaut says. Clip 21. Okay. But we're also really pushing the boundaries in terms of where we're going forward with exploration. I think humans are naturally driven to do this. And this is really the beginning, the beginning, I think, of human beings leaving low Earth orbit. And the next clip is from about, I think about four months ago, an astronaut for the Artemis program saying this is going to be the first time we send humans to the most.

Starting point is 03:00:18 Even says before it, you've got to pay attention. You may not like this or words to the effect that the other guy said. Okay. This is the last clip we're going to play on this topic. Then we're going to move to the next one. Sure. That's how I have it. Okay.

Starting point is 03:00:31 This is going to be an odd answer. It might hit. It might land wrong. But I'm going to try anyway. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. What do you say after that?

Starting point is 03:00:47 You cut it out. What did you say after? that? Well, he went on talking and they passed a microphone back and forth. Yeah, but how do you know, how do the viewers know that he didn't, how do the viewers know that he didn't say in 53 years or something like that? Like, you just, he didn't. You can find it. Okay, we'll take your word for it, I guess. But I mean, I listened to it. It's just they passed the microphone around. Even said something to the words of the effect, this may rock the boat of the audience or whatever, something like that. Okay. All right. Um, I want to talk about the micrometeorites. What was the threat level of like the

Starting point is 03:01:16 micrometeorites when you were on the moon. Because from what I understand is there are, there's a high risk of being hit by micrometeorites, right, when you're on the surface of the moon. We had a, if they saw a solar flare, the only thing I remember, if we had a solar flare, we would have to get back into the lunar module and lift off and then join up and point the heat shield towards the solar flare. I don't remember anything about micrometeorites. There was no discussion or no warnings about trying to mitigate.

Starting point is 03:01:55 No. And Von Braun's book, the one that has the quote, which is called Voyage to the Moon, he says that micrometeorites would cause a catastrophic or fatal error 50% chance every 24 hours. Thousands of them hit the moon every second. He says you'd have to immediately go into a led shot. shelter or a cave on the moon. He said it would cause death 50% of the time every 24 hours. There's so

Starting point is 03:02:23 many of them. We made it a lot longer than that and nobody died on. Somehow 16 tanks of oxygen in that little backpack in order to be out there for eight hours at a time. To me, this is one of the most striking examples of why the moon landings are fake. If you look at D23, this is the shadows. Okay. Let's see. I'm a filmmaker. Oh, the shadows. Okay. My job is a filmmaker is to make fake scenes look real. Yeah. I use lighting to mimic the sun all the time, fooled other filmmakers. They thought it was the sunset, but it was really a light. You can prove that the moon landings are fake with this one picture. Okay. Because the sun being about a thousand times bigger and diameter than the Earth cast shadows in the same direction over the entire Earth or Moon. They're always parallel.

Starting point is 03:03:13 It's mathematically and scientifically impossible for shadows to intersect in sunlight, as you can tell in the photograph on the left. The photograph on the right is allegedly from the last mission to the moon where an astronaut shadow goes at 12 o'clock and a rock about five feet away goes at 9 o'clock. That's a 90 degree difference from objects five feet apart, indicating that at least two electrical lights are being used. You can even see a hot spot around the top. So if you want to prove the moon landing is fake, you can prove it in one photograph. The photograph on the right cannot be duplicated in sunlight.

Starting point is 03:03:50 It's supposed to be 20 times brighter with no atmosphere. There's no need for electrical lighting. But obviously, the one on the right was lit with electrical lighting. The shadows should be parallel. They're intersecting at 90 degrees from objects five feet apart. That would prove it in a court of law, as well as the footage we have of them faking being halfway to the moon, that they didn't go to the moon. That's all the proof you need. It's right there.

Starting point is 03:04:16 People can deny it. I talked to a college professor who teaches aerospace at one of the university's most famous one in America. He says if Neil Armstrong confessed on national TV that the moon missions were fake, he'd still think he walked on the moon anyway. People deny the evidence over and over again. They made a god out of it. You can change the hat on who shot JFK and why. You can change the hat on who did 9-11 and why. It's still a tragedy.

Starting point is 03:04:45 This is a positive lie. And people do not want to give it up. I got an email from Carl Sagan's associate who told me privately that he believed the moon landings were fake, but he was afraid to say it publicly because of it being politically incorrect. And Carl Sagan said this. One of the saddest lessons of history is this. If we've been bamboozled or lied to long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle.

Starting point is 03:05:15 We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan, like the federal government, power over you, you almost never get it back. and Mark Twain said it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. The problem, this is a positive lie. This is giving candy to a child and trying to take it away and people keep defending the people who are ripping them off

Starting point is 03:05:50 because our tax dollars went into paying the salaries of the CIA agents that killed the Apollo 1 crew. On the shadows, you can get shadows to angle towards each other in sunlight. Well, it's a fact. You can do it depending on your your focal length of the lens and how far away you are from the objects with one single light source. It you can very easily make it appear as if shadows are aiming towards each other. It's not a light source. It's the sun. The sun, correct. You can do that with the sun. I'd like to see it. All right. Steve, cue it up. We could go outside or whatever.

Starting point is 03:06:23 But, and again, you're right about the lens. This is a 50 millimeter lens. Okay, let's watch this. This is by the everyday astronaut. He made a video. Yeah, the people who believe we went to the moon. All right, well, you're the people who believe we didn't go to the moon. Right. So this is a fair shake. Yeah, but shadow argument. Yeah, let me say this. Okay. If they went to the moon, even though it can't be repeated 50 years later by no nation on Earth, and they can only go one thousandth or far now, despite five decades. I understand this. I understand this. No, but here's the overall point of a person like this. Okay. I understand. if they went to the moon, then the amount of evidence I have is zero. And yet, if you look up moon fraud, you get 1,001 YouTube videos by people who were deceived, who have made a god out of the moon landing, who if I went around saying Mickey Mouse was the first president of the United States, you think there'd be 1,000 videos to disprove me? The reason why there are is because there's so much emerging proof that the moon, moon missions are fake.

Starting point is 03:07:27 Right. And they're scrambling to somehow justify all the condemning evidence like OJ's defense attorney. No matter what evidence is presented, they have some excuse for it. Sure. Okay. We're going to watch this video of the everyday astronaut discussing the lunar shadows. Full screen this because I think this is very compelling and this is, uh, go ahead. What seems like inconsistent shadows is a common thing for people to point to as suspect of a

Starting point is 03:07:57 hoax. For this, let's take a look at this photograph that some people question, saying it was shot in a studio and as proof the Apollo landings were fake. It's from Apollo 17. Magazine 136, framed 20,744, shot on one of the iconic Hosselblod 500 EL 6x medium format cameras with a Zyce 60mm F5.6 lens by astronaut Harrison Jack Schmidt at mission elaps time of 122 hours. 32 minutes and 50 seconds in the Torres Littro Valley. The claim here is that the shadows appear to be coming together, proving there to be multiple sources of light, or perhaps a light that's far too close,

Starting point is 03:08:40 certainly not the sun, that's millions of kilometers away. This is one of the easiest things to demonstrate on your own. All we have to do is go out when the sun is fairly low in the sky, about 15 degrees above the horizon, to match the lighting conditions in the photo. Then we need a lens that would be 35 millimeters on a full frame camera or a 35 millimeter equivalent lens since the 60 millimeter lens on a medium format camera is equal to about 38 millimeters.

Starting point is 03:09:08 So to get the same perspective and angle of view, we'll want to aim for you know, 35 mil or 40 mil equivalent. Then we just need our camera to be placed roughly mid chest to match where the Hosselblods were mounted. Little play, let it play. Let's play. It's pretty obvious that all shadows appear to point inwards towards the center of the photo. The further left or right an object is, the more this is exaggerated.

Starting point is 03:09:31 And honestly, this is perhaps one of the most elementary of all things. They appear this way because of perspective, the exact same way parallel train tracks or roads appear to converge. And to prove these shadows are indeed parallel, let's just fly up and look down to confirm that they're indeed straight and parallel. Now, ironically, conspiracy theorists claim something exactly backwards. They say shadows appear to converge because it's a close studio spotlight that is roughly 10 feet behind the subject. But the closer a light source is to the camera, the more the shadows appear to line up with the camera's field of view. So the shadows actually become less and less visible to the vantage point of the camera. The closer the light source is.

Starting point is 03:10:16 Again, this is kind of photography 101 stuff here. Now, it's often claimed that there are multiple sources of light and that's why the shadows appear to be in different directions. But the reality is that multiple sources of light will produce multiple shadows on a single subject. And actually, the lighting on the surface of the moon would be virtually impossible to replicate in a studio, even with limitless funds and the most advanced solutions in the world, because notice that in all the images, the entire surface of the moon is equally lit. Since we don't see multiple shadows, you couldn't use multiple sources of light to try and evenly light the scenes, let alone mountains that are several kilometers away from the camera.

Starting point is 03:10:57 And light follows the inverse square law. If you move an object twice as far away from a light source, it'll receive one quarter the amount of light. So imagine trying to light a scene where everything is evenly lit and you don't see multiple shadows. Your light source would have to be several kilometers away, maybe hundreds or millions of kilometers away, and it would have to be unbelievably bright,

Starting point is 03:11:19 or perhaps, you know, it could just be the sun. And what we're talking about shadows. Go back toward the beginning of the video where he's trying to mimic the picture that I showed, where there's that little L bracket that's painted white, which is supposed to represent the rock. Yeah. Okay, go there. Okay. Let me make that full frame.

Starting point is 03:11:38 Okay. The shadow of the little L bracket or whatever it is is not intersecting at 90 degrees. It's not pointing at 9 o'clock. And the picture that they claim was on the moon, it is. Put them side by side. Plus, he's using a wide angle lens, which is the type of lens they use in a drone. A wide angle lens.

Starting point is 03:12:00 Which causes a little bit of a curvature in the picture. The rock is not pointing 90 degrees though. Well, it's... The top of the rock is like right here. The top of the rock goes up like that and it's projecting that way. It just looks wider because the rock is wider right there. It's like poking out right there. It makes it look like it's pointing 90 degrees.

Starting point is 03:12:18 Well, I mean, compare it with the one. Move this over to the left and put it. side by side. Yes, the same exact thing. They're not, they're not, the shadows are not going the same direction. Okay? He's trying to mimic the picture.

Starting point is 03:12:32 They are going the same direction, Bart. This is sunlight, and they are not intersecting in the same way in the picture that they claim on the moon. It's not. He's making excuses, but if you look at him side by side, the object that's representing the rock, the shadow is going a completely different direction. Play that, play that YouTube video again. Play it from where it is.

Starting point is 03:12:58 Pause it right there. Go back. where it shows the... Okay, it looks like those two shadows are pointing in towards each other. It does not look like they are going in the same direction as his shadow. It looks like they're pointing in towards him. Well, the point is they're trying to mimic the picture that he just showed. He showed the picture that I showed right before this.

Starting point is 03:13:21 The big shadow in the middle is supposed to be the astronaut, and the little white L bracket is supposed to be the rock. but the shadow is not going all the way to the left at 9 o'clock, the same as in the picture. Plus he's using a wide angle lens. Why are they converging? Why are the shadows from the bracket and that helmet or whatever it is? Why are they converging in and his shadow? They're still not intersecting.

Starting point is 03:13:44 If you follow the trajectory. It would absolutely intersect with his shadow if you kept. Well, again, it's a wide angle lens that makes the picture curve, not a 50 millimeter lens, which is completely different. Look at my picture again. parallel shadows. That's how it should look. Okay. The one on the left's taken with the 50 millimeter lens. They don't converge. I understand what you're saying about the rock. It looks like, it looks like the... Those shadows intersect in a few feet. You're, according to that wide angle

Starting point is 03:14:16 lens, they would converge or come together at some point in the great distance. Bart, that rock on the top right, the shadow is not projecting to the left. The shadow is projecting behind it, but the bottom, the base of the rock touching the ground is more narrow than the top of the rock. It gets wider as it goes out, which from our perspective makes it look like the shadow is going that way, when in fact, the shadow is just wider because the light is shooting that way. The shadow is projecting that way, but the shadow is wider than the base of the rock, which makes it look like it's going that way, but it's not. It's like an optical illusion. Well, that person has said there's no evidence that can ever be presented that will make him deny the authenticity of the moon missions.

Starting point is 03:15:05 And you've said the exact opposite. No, no, I proved that I can change my mind because I went from being the greatest fan to the greatest skeptic. If you look at clip 27, wait a minute, we're talking about the pictures. This is the smartest AI in the world that has a deep fake detector program that has never been wrong. not available to the public, clip 27. It can tell whether a video of Biden or Trump is a deep fake in one second. It's never been wrong. It can analyze pixels in the foreground and see whether the background is fake if the pixels line up.

Starting point is 03:15:41 The smartest AIA in the world just said all the Apollo pictures were fake. Okay, I agree. We'll look at that. But can you concede that what we're looking at... It's not a duplicate. It's not. I mean, come on. You can see that that rock.

Starting point is 03:15:56 The shadows are going completely different. The one on the left from Apollo 17, they intersect in about two feet. The one on the right, they would eventually come to a point somewhere down the path, and that's simply because it's shot with a wide angle lens. The one on the left of sunlight all the way to the left is not a wide angle lens. And so you see, they don't seem to converge in a point because they actually don't. Right. But if you had a light source that was closer than the sun and smaller than the sun, and smaller than

Starting point is 03:16:25 the sun that would not make the shadows intersect. Do you understand that? Well, Steve, last time I was here, duplicated the Apollo 17 picture with two electrical lights. Do you understand that? Because that's how it was taken with two electrical lights. Do you understand that if you have, and Steve, tell me if I'm if I'm foolish, if I'm wrong here, if you have two objects and one light source close to the objects versus compared to a light source that's thousands of miles away, would the closer light source make the shadows go out or make it go in? It would make them go out. Out. Correct. So it's not possible that it was a closer light source because of closer light source would not make the shadows converged, Bart. Well, I've been a, I've won best cinematography,

Starting point is 03:17:08 and I say that the picture on the, that they claim is on the moon was taken with an electrical light. And Steve, who believes we went to the moon, last time duplicated the shadows with two electrical lights. That's how it was taken and that's how Steve duplicated it. Now, let's forget our opinion. I think the shadow argument. Let's go with the smartest AI in the world. I think this is the worst piece of evidence because I think this is easily blown out of the water. Well, I disagree. Let's look at what the smartest AI in the world thinks. About the shadows? Well, about the pictures. He said every Apollo picture, the AI, I'm assuming it's a he, said that they had fake backdrops. Play the clip, D-27, where Putin was

Starting point is 03:17:50 at this conference, the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow, they were allowed to play with this AI that's not available to the public. Ten AIs scrown together and it said the Apollo pictures were fake. So either Google's $1 billion 10-year investment produced a stupid AI or the pictures are fake. Now can we use the AI ourselves and ask it and get the answer? That's not available to the public. It was available at this conference. How long ago was the conference? Okay, let's watch the clip. Watch clip 27.

Starting point is 03:18:25 How long ago was a conference? Two years ago. Two years ago. So 2023? Play it. So, it's almost all objects on this photo, she's notherstay

Starting point is 03:18:37 of the other time. Photography of Chinese Unhohohohoho, it's not even of that's not true? Yeah, that's because of Google's not.

Starting point is 03:18:48 So, that's not to be a bit of it. So there will be no bias. It's surprising, but it does believe so. The neural network has analyzed a lot of data, including light and dark contrast, etc. And then it believes the photo is synthetic. And it compared them... It compared the photos to the Chinese landers that landed in 2018.

Starting point is 03:19:14 And it was fed pictures of them of the lunar surface. It said they were real. Okay, where did you get this video? I don't remember where it came from. but I got it off the internet about two years ago. Look, what you're saying is compelling to me. But when you're bringing in the hardcore evidence like this to prove something so incredible, I mean,

Starting point is 03:19:35 you have to have a little bit more than just a video with no source. Well, actually, it got it inverted. He's the one who claims on a, on the moon, where only people with top secret clearance are there, where there's no independent press coverage, and we have to trust the federal government, What happened on the moon?

Starting point is 03:19:54 That's the preposterous claim. I understand. That needs to be made. Correct. Yes, I would agree with you there as well. But what I'm trying to say is, in order for me to believe you, I can't just watch clips that you don't have the source for. And that we also can't corroborate ourselves. That was Putin.

Starting point is 03:20:10 You didn't recognize Putin there? It was Putin, but we don't know what he was looking at. We couldn't see the screen. And we don't know. We have no access to it. This is you in your movie taking a clip and putting captions on it and saying that it was him looking at a neural AI. I can't understand Russian. I don't even know that those captions are real.

Starting point is 03:20:25 Right? So, like, there has to be a little bit more source evidence to corroborate what you're saying. Well, I mean, come on. That video speaks for itself. Look at, you're going to like this, and this is pretty much the last clip, except for one at the very end. Clip 28 is Dan Rather describing, and you'll see the relevance, the Kennedy assassination. They refused to show the Zabruder film. They said, trust us.

Starting point is 03:20:51 we'll describe it for you. So you're going to hear Dan Rather's description where he says the third and fatal shot, Kennedy's head goes violently forward. That way Oswald could do it because he was supposed to be behind him. And at that exact moment, his head actually goes backwards,

Starting point is 03:21:12 indicating the bullet, traveling at 2,000 miles an hour, which causes the force of the head to move, was actually in the front. My point is, The most important event before the moon landing was the Kennedy assassination, and we're going to show an example where the evening news said the exact opposite of the truth. Go ahead and play it. Yes.

Starting point is 03:21:32 In the next instant, with this time Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on, a second shot, the third total shot, hit the president's head. He seemed to move violently forward, violently forward. violently forward. So Dan Rather just said... Make a note to make sure we cut that out because we can't show that on the podcast. Or you could possibly show it on the white shot. If you show it on a screen...

Starting point is 03:22:03 Yeah, we can't get it. So basically, I have it on my channel without a problem. They just monetize that segment or whatever. But there you go. Dan Rather... Yeah, we know the media and the government lies. He said the exact opposite of the truth. So the point is if they're willing to kill their own president,

Starting point is 03:22:20 they're not going to have a problem faking a video image on the moon where there's nobody there and no reporters there. I am 100% agreement with you on that. Okay. Well, let's talk about, I'm curious about the post-flight press conference. It seems like in that first press conference after Apollo 11 with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they seem very, very, cold. They seem in a, their demeanor seems very grim. Not what I would imagine astronauts that just walked on the moon for the first time in the history of the world. What do you make of that, Charles? I don't know which one you're talking about, but they, they brought the first press conference. Well, they landed, I don't know whether they were still in quarantine or not. Are you

Starting point is 03:23:16 talking about quarantine? It was after the quarantine when they went in front of the, in front of the media. Do you remember the date of that press conference? I think it was in August, like August 23rd, 1969, something around there. Yeah, everybody is astonished. To me, the window shot proves they didn't go to the moon, but other people are convinced by their expressions that they look like they're at their mother's funeral instead of the winning locker room of the Super Bowl

Starting point is 03:23:41 because they're lying and don't want to lie. You also see they have two teleprompters kind of hidden in their desk to prompt them what it was like to want to want. walk on the moon for the first time, even though they're the only ones in the world who should know that. What sort of like, what sort of psychological? Is there any sort of psychological effect

Starting point is 03:24:02 that you could use to describe why they, why their demeanor would be like this, why they wouldn't be more elated or more exuberant to describe what they just went through? Because a lot of people, this is one of the main reasons, people who question the moon landing. This is one of the main pieces of evidence. they use. They say that these guys look like they just got brainwashed or something or that they were

Starting point is 03:24:27 just told to lie about something. But is there is there any sort of like because people, the astronauts have described particularly this effect of coming back to Earth from outer space and seeing the Earth. There's this overview effect that happens where it kind of like, crosses some wires psychologically, where when you get back to Earth, it's almost like nothing will ever meet the level of intensity and excitement as walking on the moon. And maybe that could explain some of the reasons why all the astronauts, their lives just went into a downward spiral when they got home. They became alcoholics. They divorced their wives. What do you make of that?

Starting point is 03:25:15 I think it's hard to say. People had different reasons. for leaving their wives, going in the buzz was sort of an alcoholic. And when he left the space program, he was, he went into a, I'd saw a downward spiral. He'd been at the top of the list for importance. And then he got out, then he went to, ended up as a commander of the test pilot school as a colonel. He was still on active duty. And then he was very upset, I don't think, I think, because he never did make general.

Starting point is 03:26:08 Until recently, he was made general. And I think the Air Force finally rewarded him for that, if I'm saying this correctly. Anyway, some people had different remotions of, you know, my flight, though I was number 10 on the moon. Oh, your phone's ringing. Oh, sorry. It's okay. My wife. I was really exuberant.

Starting point is 03:26:47 Even when we got back, it was just, I was number 10 on the moon. and it was the most incredible experience to see the moon and to drive the, not drive the rover, but ride the rover and see picking up rocks and seeing the beauty of the moon. It was thrilling and exciting. And we wanted to, we didn't want to come back. We were having so much fun. And they said, get back in, you guys. It's time to come home.

Starting point is 03:27:19 So we got back inside. do you uh do you recall any similar feeling like what what was your your state like what kind of were you in um a different state of mind when you got back to earth for a while where there's were there any sort of lingering psychological effects that may may have affected you at all i think uh it was just excitement uh you know i'm been i'm on the moon i'm on the moon no i mean when you got back and when i got back i did the same feelings that i've been to the moon. And it was a thrilling experience. I love to talk about it. I still do. It was not life changing, but it was a tremendous experience of being selected. It was an honor to be a moonwalker.

Starting point is 03:28:09 And, you know, we just threw ourselves into it for two years. John and I trained. We were back up on 13. And then we helped them return. And then after that, we went prime crew, and it was two years later that we finally flew. And so it was a long time to get focused on that. And this is going to happen sooner or later. And sooner or two years later, we landed on a moon. And it was an exuberating, exhilarating experience.

Starting point is 03:28:48 and awesome, you know, we didn't want to come back. You know, it was one of the, look at that rock over there, John, look at it over here. You know, it was just excitement the whole time we were on the moon. And yet it was, you had a job to do, so you had to follow the flight plan, as you will. And finally you got outside and not outside, but your time to come back in. You didn't want to come back in. I'll give me two more minutes, guys, or something like that. And, but mission control was very adamant.

Starting point is 03:29:27 You got this level of oxygen and water remaining. Get back inside. So we got back inside. So the objectives and the tasks that you guys had to accomplish when you were outside of the moon sort of overpowered the, you didn't really get any sort of like moment to reflect. and internalize what was happening right then and then there and to like sit back and just take in the awe of being 240,000 miles away. We were too busy for that.

Starting point is 03:30:01 Too busy. Later on, you know, looking back at it now, it was a tremendous experience. And we wanted to stay longer. We wanted another two hours on the moon or whatever it was. And they said, get back inside, guys, time to come home. And we were late landing because of a problem with the command module. Why was it that Neil only ever did one, he did two talks in his entire life about the moon? He was one of the shy skies I've ever met.

Starting point is 03:30:41 And he was never, it was never, look at me, I'm the big Neil Armstrong. He was shy and reserved. and never really never took credit. One of the last things he said about traveling to the moon was perhaps someday the children of the world would be able to remove one of truce protective layers. The people I interviewed about him said he was the opposite of shy until he returned from the moon. His personality changed dramatically.

Starting point is 03:31:11 He was the life of the party. He played the piano. He was the center of attention at all parties. Before the moon mission. And then afterwards, something in him changed. He refused to give interviews unless the president asked him to. And the last time one did Clinton, it's a clip in my movie at subbrel.com on the homepage, he says, perhaps someday to the children touring the White House, you'll be able to remove one of truth's

Starting point is 03:31:36 protective layers. And that's what we're trying to do today. Did you notice that at all? His personality changing before and after? Nothing. He got shy. He didn't, I always took it. He didn't want to, want to take any credit for this.

Starting point is 03:31:56 You know, it was, he happened to be first on the moon, but anybody could have been first on the moon, basically. And, you know, he was just scheduled to be on Apollo 11. And so they, that put him first on the moon. Buzz Alderton wanted to swap places with him. So Burris was the first on the moon. Oh, really? Yeah.

Starting point is 03:32:23 But he didn't do it. And the hatch, Neil was on the left side, and the hatch was underneath the computer, the instrument panel in the center, and the hatch opened towards the Luter Module Pollitt. So the guy on that left side had to get out first. That was it. That was it.

Starting point is 03:32:44 Just the way the hatch swung open. Wow. Yeah, you would just. think being the first man to walk on the moon, you would almost be pushed more into the public spotlight, you know, because he was shy. He really was. After he returned, he became shy. Right. After what? After he returned. The people I interviewed said he was the opposite. Before a gregarious person, life of the party, people, he played the piano, everyone surrounded him at all parties. I never remember him like that.

Starting point is 03:33:21 No. Did you spend a lot of time with him beforehand? He was, I forgot what, I was involved in Apollo 8, Apollo 9, no, not 9, 8, 10, 11. Okay, so those crews, and then I was back up on 13 and then flew on 16. So I was, I got to know him. And, and Buzz was a different walk to a different drum. I thought Neil was very shy, but very competent. He had a tremendous background in TestPollett experience when he was at Edwards Air Force Base.

Starting point is 03:34:14 And he was just really sharp. but he was an all shucks kind of guy. Do you think it's possible that the federal government or NASA would have, in preparation to going to the moon, in case something went wrong with like the cameras or the film or something like that or maybe even like a catastrophic failure and you guys weren't able to make it? Do you think there's any possibility that they would have shot some sort of. footage on Earth to basically show the public to boost public confidence and to to prove, to show the world that we did go to the moon, even though we did go and we didn't have the actual evidence to show, maybe it might be better to have a backup plan as far as the footage goes because maybe the film wouldn't survive going through the radiation or there

Starting point is 03:35:11 would be some sort of problem with the cameras or something like that. That was never any discussion like that that the astronaut office was part of. Sure. It's my part of the astronaut office. Sure. But like, outside of your personal experience being an astronaut with the astronauts, obviously the astronauts weren't their number one objective was not media and documentation. But do you, outside of that, do you think there's any shred of possibility that there would have been a backup plan as far as getting some footage on Earth?

Starting point is 03:35:41 no we that that never entered anybody's mind no that i know of i was involved in apollo 10 support crew uh back up on apollo 13 and flew on 16 and uh it was never any discussion of well let's fake this if the if the if you know whatever happened we're going to fake the landing that's That discussion was never had. Let me ask you a question about that. Let's just say, use your great mind and imagination for a moment, if I'm right, let's just say we're in a different world where the federal government did fake the moon landing for military reasons or whatever.

Starting point is 03:36:29 What do you think those reasons would have been? I can't imagine doing that except for prestige. They save faith. Let me put it that way. Because Kennedy said they'd go before the end of the decade. Yeah. And we made it. With all the evidence that with all the stuff that Bart's presented to us today with the footage and the interviews of Von Braun and all the other stuff, can you put yourself in somebody's shoes? Could you put yourself in Bart's shoes or a dumb dumb like me, my shoes, who wasn't there? I'm not an astronaut. I have no experience flying any type of aircraft being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's showing and say, oh, maybe this was, maybe this was faked.

Starting point is 03:37:28 Maybe this was because it was done in the Cold War. The government was constantly lying during the Cold War, faking pretexts to get into wars, doing mind control experiments. Like, yeah, there might be a possibility that this was faked. if you're not yourself, if you're, if you are me or if you're bark. I mean, you can believe anything you won't. If you think it was fake, you think it was faked. But you can show the evidence it wasn't faked. Well, about that, there's an interesting scripture in Joshua.

Starting point is 03:38:02 God told Israel not to make a peace treaty with any of the nations surrounding Israel. and the one that neighbored them knew that. It says when the inhabitants of Gimion heard that Joshua, what he had done to Jericho and AI, they worked craftily and went and pretended to be ambassadors from a faraway land. They took old sacks on their donkeys, the fake evidence, fake moon rocks, old wine skins that were torn and mended,

Starting point is 03:38:38 and old patched, handles on their feet. They even brought bread that was deliberately moldy. Yeah. That's smart. Yeah, so they provided fake evidence, didn't they? Nothing's new under the sun. Jesus also said that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. They come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are wolves. Yeah. And so just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean that there are. Jesus was said to have been sent to the lost people of Israel. So everything he's

Starting point is 03:39:09 he said was to the church at the time. And to those people, he said, wide is the gate to the believers, to the church. And wide is it to destruction? And most believers don't make it. The way to life is narrow, and only a few find it. And I know that when I was baptized, I was baptized based on Ash chapter 2, which says repent and be baptized. One of the people who was killed that was not Sean was James Irwin. James Irwin contacted the leading investigator Bill casing. He was before me. Tracked him down.

Starting point is 03:39:48 After Bill casing went on Oprah, it said the moon landings are fake, James Irwin, Apollo 15 astronaut contacted him. And he said he had become a born-again Christian and they needed to talk about the book he wrote about not going to the moon. He said, I'm concerned for my safety. Please call me at this number three days from now. And on that day, James Irwin had a fatal heart attack. So to be truly converted, you have to confess your sin.

Starting point is 03:40:16 If you've been lying your whole life about the moon landing, you have to tell the truth about it. It says in Titus about false Christians. They claim to be of God, but in deeds they don't show it. I understand. Yeah. So, you know, that's, you know, the issue here, really, it's a spiritual issue that that man kind's greatest accomplishment is named after lucifer it's interestingly it's in revelation 9-11 it says that one of the names for lucifer in greek is apollo the great liar and what how

Starting point is 03:40:58 ironic of a fallen world that the most powerful nation on earth that claims to be the most righteous that kills their presidents fake wars killed their soldiers right fakes moose moon landing, the greatest accomplishment of man is a lie. My film starts out with the Tower of Babel. Jesus said to start a tower and to not finish it. You're calling yourself a fool. It was done to boast to save face. We will build it to show off, is what they say in Genesis 6. Never finished. Then we showed the Titanic with the headline that they put in print, the ship that God himself could not sink. And we know what happened there. And then Richard Nixon, when you had the president of Japan and the president of Germany and France there at the launch

Starting point is 03:41:45 site, President Nixon doesn't show up because he's afraid the lie will unravel. He showed up for the next launch once they got away with it. And he said, putting a man on the moon is second in greatness only to God making the universe. You see, faking the moon landing is a blasphemous thing. And in law, there's a law that says if you're in a bank robbery where a homicide is committed, even though it's by one of your partners, you can be a part of that. And people were murdered. We just saw 15% of the Apollo astronauts were murdered. James Irwin was murdered. The Apollo 1 crew was murdered.

Starting point is 03:42:23 Cyrus Eugene Acres said he murdered somebody. So you're part of that too in some way. Had you come forward. How many percent of the Apollo crews were murdered? Well, they had, quote, fatal accidents all within a 24-month period. Who? 15% of the Apollo crew and backup crews. And so if you had a McDonald's...

Starting point is 03:42:45 Well, wait, wait, go through those incidences. Well, you could play the clip again or remind them. They showed the pictures of the astronauts. Now, if I was, you know, a owner of a McDonald's, and 15% of my employees had fatal accidents within 24 hours, months. I think the homicide police will be all over the place. And then the leading critic, Baron, he wrote a report to give to Congress about how they were a decade or more away from going to the moon instead of two years. The report disappeared, and he was found dead on a train

Starting point is 03:43:23 crossing after he had received death threats. That was an old CIA trick for getting rid of forensic evidence before they had DNA testing. They kill them, put him on the train tracks, it destroys all the evidence. So not only did they fake the moon landing, the federal government is using our salaries, a third of them, to deceive us and to pay the salaries of CIA agents who were killing our brothers and sisters who are trying to expose the moon landing fraud. So all of the moon landings were faked. You said 20, when you walked in here, you remembered a conversation we had word for word 20 years ago, and you know, and you know, that I'm the one who said we didn't go to the moon, and yet you've said at least 10 times since

Starting point is 03:44:09 we've been here, you're surprised that that's what I'm saying. When Danny made it perfectly clear. I didn't remember that conversation. You quoted me word for word. Well, anyway, I don't remember quoting you that that we did not land on the moon. You said that I called you up and said, I have irrefutable proof that we didn't go to the moon. Danny called you up and said, you're going to debate somebody who thinks we didn't go to the moon. And yet 10 times you've acted like you're surprised. You're just acting. And I'm sorry, there's no Nazi war criminal.

Starting point is 03:44:43 Whoever turned themselves in, they act like a benevolent grandfather when they're guilty. None of them have confessed. None of them came forward, and they're still guilty. And you're the same way. Buzz Aldrin said accidentally one too many times he didn't go to the moon. He was asked a few years ago, why have we not been back? because we didn't go. And if we didn't go, we need to know why. And now that he's tripping over his tongue, they bring you out instead. Since I did Joe Rogan, so many people are being converted to the

Starting point is 03:45:19 truth. And you're here to put out fires. Because if I climbed Mount Everest and some guy wanted to debate me, I would not waste my time. You're here to put out all these fires of all these people saying it'll take multiple fuel trips to reach it to the moon. Multiple people saying the radiation belts are dangerous and the technology to go through them hasn't been invented yet. The truth is coming out. What would happen if the truth came out? It would be a big embarrassment for the United States government,

Starting point is 03:45:52 an embarrassment for you and all of the other surviving Apollo astronauts who have built the reputations hired as CEOs of companies for a lie. and that's the way that it is. We live in a fallen world, and people are expected to believe you on face value because he claimed to be a Christian when Jesus himself said the majority of people who claim their Christian are not saved. So if you were truly converted, you would repent, but you're not. Repent of what?

Starting point is 03:46:20 Of your lie, your lifelong lie. Of going to the moon? Obviously. So anyway, I have one last clip. Wait a minute. Hold on. Wait a minute. You're saying that nobody landed on the moon. You know that. I don't know why you're asking. No. That's what he says. That's what he says. Okay. So where did all the moon rocks come from? You've asked that four times. So we've already covered that. Okay, Bart, real quick. You said that 15% of the astronauts die within 24 months. That's right.

Starting point is 03:46:47 Of Apollo 1? Well, prior to the Apollo program, prior to the first launch to the moon. Oh, they died prior to the first launch. Correct. Okay. So how can- In my opinion, who would not cooperate with the fraud? like Gus Grissom. So how, will we ask the internet, we can say how many Apollo astronauts died from, died period, before Apollo 1? That was research done by Fox News and the program conspiracy theory. Did we land on the moon? You can only see it at subrel.com.

Starting point is 03:47:18 It's one of the clips available. This says 24 months after, Steve, you would have to type in how many of the Apollo era astronauts died in accidents. Well, I'm quoting Fox News. I understand that, but I want to corroborate it with chat GPT. I want to ask how many Apollo astronauts died in accidents before Apollo 1? Three. Yeah, Fox News says there's more than that.

Starting point is 03:47:48 They're including the backup crews as well. Okay. Well, how many Apollo astronauts and crew members or anybody involved? in the Apollo program died before Apollo won. Again, that's Fox News. We have Betty Grissom and Scott Grissom. Chachee is better than Fox News. It should be able to pull up the evidence, right?

Starting point is 03:48:09 Well, again, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was programmed to say so. So it's not completely reliable. What is reliable is Betty Grissom and Scott Grissom, who told me he was Gus Grissom, their husband and father, was going to be the first man on the moon. He was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he got secret service protection up until the day of his death.

Starting point is 03:48:30 And they both say he was murdered by the CIA. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts, right? Or whistleblowers at NASA. That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of the dead man's relatives. Right? And then we have Cyrus Eugene Akers, who was there. I witnessed seeing the faking of the moon landing in 1968,

Starting point is 03:48:50 who says he killed a co-worker to cover it up. Okay, so he was a security guy working at an Air Force base. And you're including him. in the 15%? No. I guess you'd have to add that to it. They're talking about Apollo astronauts and backup crews.

Starting point is 03:49:04 Okay. I'm sure they know how to count. How can we find this Fox, this Fox thing online? It's on my website on subrel. How can we find it off of your website? It's not available anymore. It's not available anywhere off of your web. Okay.

Starting point is 03:49:15 Yeah. So again, I think Fox News knows how to count and divide on a computer. If they said it's 15%, I'm pretty sure it's 15%. So, and I think you've said, this before, if we did fake it, if we faked Apollo 11, why wouldn't they just say, okay, we went to the moon, wash our hands of it? Why would we fake it five more times?

Starting point is 03:49:40 Because the government is greedy. My first military source who told me the missions were fake said it's all about the money. 250 billion dollars in today's dollars to go to the moon when they only achieved Earth orbit. That means they can keep about 75% of that. tens of billions of dollars, I guess what is, you know, 25% of 250 billion, that's what they spent and they kept 75% of it for who knows what, to go into Cambodia. Congress said you can't use funding to go into Cambodia. We know they did. Where did that money come from?

Starting point is 03:50:16 The Apollo program. Just like now, they said you can't give technology to China, but they're doing it anyway. They're breaking their own laws according to someone who works in the command center of the space agency. So if you believe in God, pray for the truth to come out. I pray for you. I have no animosity toward you at all. I might have done the same thing under your circumstances. I regularly pray for the astronauts, and I think it would be great if one of them came forward. The problem that the general is facing is there are more than one person alive associated with the Apollo program. If only one person claimed to have walked on the moon solo, they probably would have told the truth by now.

Starting point is 03:50:59 But if he confesses, he's ruining the lives of other people. Well, why would I lie that I walked on the moon? For a number of reasons, because Kennedy made the boast and it couldn't be done into save face. Plus, it embezzled a couple hundred billion dollars, and the federal government already proved their arrogance. That's why, you know, it just dawned on me that they went six times. They faked it six times. That's how arrogant the federal government is. They killed their own president, according to the dead man's relatives.

Starting point is 03:51:31 They faked the beginning of a war that killed 58,000 of their own people. And they're ruthless. Bart, what about the lunar reconnaissance orbiter that corroborated the landing sites? Well, that's the NASA. You're asking the Fox to provide evidence that didn't steal the chick. Stephen, I sent you something about the lunar reconnaissance order. It was, Lunar Reconna, LRO is a University of Arizona, as I understand it. Right. I was under the impression that it has nothing to do with NASA, that it was corroborated by another agency out of Germany.

Starting point is 03:52:09 Is this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Play this. No, another everyday, shout out to everyday astronaut. The lunar reconnaissance orbiter was launched in 2009 and began to, in mapping the surface of the moon as close as 35 kilometers from the surface. And guess what they found on the surface of the moon? That's right. The Apollo lunar landing sites.

Starting point is 03:52:32 Well, actually, it's captured every human-made object, including Soviet Lunacod rovers and crash sites and all sorts of incredible images. And these images have so much detail. You can clearly see the lunar lander descent stage. You can see footprints and rover tracks. But what's really cool about these images from the lunar reconnaissance orbiter is, is you can compare these 21st century photos to video and images taking during lift off from the moon of these missions, and you can literally align them

Starting point is 03:53:00 and confirm that they're identical. Let's take the lift off of Apollo 16, for example. It has great contrast and it's easy to see lots of detail as it ascends. Its pitch over maneuver also shows the descent stage and some footprints as well. So we can overlay an image shot from the Lunary Consence Orbiter and compare them.

Starting point is 03:53:18 And look, they're identical. Nothing has. changed since there's no wind or atmosphere to disrupt the lunar soil. I just absolutely love. How did they do that? Well, they fake the picture. Duh. I mean, they already have a full body picture of Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin allegedly standing on the moon that was filmed in Canon Air Force space. So what is it to fake a little, a little shadow or whatever and claim it went to the moon? Most of these things, a pixel is 30 feet across. One pixel is 30 feet across in these pictures. So they have crystal clear pictures of a guy standing on the moon. Again, we're

Starting point is 03:53:55 asking for the fox to provide evidence that didn't steal a chicken. Sure. What is the, Charlie, is there anything else that you would like to say to people, to my audience, to Bart's audience that are on the fence about this and that think that, you know, some of Bart's points could be compelling who aren't convinced we went to the moon? What is your... I think the evidence is overwhelming. We went to the moon. There's 600 pounds of moon rocks.

Starting point is 03:54:30 They're totally different with the radiation history and things like that. There's pictures like LRO showing my rover, showing the decent stage on the moon, the footprints. There is other evidence such as that. you know but there's a lot of things that uh prove that we went to the moon and uh i would uh to me the evidence is overwhelming that uh we really did go to the moon we landed six times and uh i think the photographs uh prove it all and that uh if if you're going to fake something do it once and shut up we kept going that's right to make money from the taxpayers and the arrogance we didn't make nobody made any money the nasa have a budget 250 billion dollars this is a lot of money and if you

Starting point is 03:55:37 only do earth orbit it was a lot of that well the cia has a big budget so everybody do you state department has a big budget and according to scientific methodology a preposterous claim like cold fusion has to be independently duplicated. No nation on Earth, including the United States, is able to repeat the moon landing. That's, I mean, that's like saying we did coal fusion, but for some reason we can't do it 50 years later. We destroyed the technology.

Starting point is 03:56:10 We did six landings. Well, you claimed to have made six landings. Yeah. Okay. Money, money, money. Right? One third of our labor. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 03:56:22 the rocks that we collected were different than the rocks that Neil Armstrong collected. We should get those rocks in here and analyze them with an expert. Well, you get arrested by the FBI like that 75-year-old woman. Bart, is there anything that would possibly convince you that we did go to the moon? Well, you used to believe it. I'm saying, no, no, no, I know you did. I know you used to believe it. But I'm saying, is there any new evidence anyone could use your imagination?

Starting point is 03:56:48 Is there any evidence that anyone could bring here to convince you that we did go? and that your life's work has been futile. Well, if you can put me on a rocket that they can't even build 50 years later. So even if he brought in... Well, wait a minute. We're building it, Artemis. Well, you postpone returning to the moon in 10 times. Presidents have said they're going to return to the moon in five years.

Starting point is 03:57:12 Ten times. I haven't heard that. And yet they can't do it. So put me on a rocket that can go to the moon. I'll pick the Apollo 11 landing site. You know, there is a... probe from an independent company that was going to land there and verify, and NASA forbid it. So send me to the moon, send me to the Apollo 11 landing site. If I see the lunar lander there,

Starting point is 03:57:35 I'll publicly say we didn't go to the moon. I've proved I've had an open mind. I went from being the biggest fan, worshiping a shrine in my house of Apollo 11 pictures to being open-minded and then gradually realizing they did indeed fake it. I mean, a guy, who builds rockets for NASA told me they faked it. And so I didn't want to believe it. I found that footage of them faking being halfway to the moon, and I had to admit it. They did fake it. That's why they can only go 1,000th the distance today. That's why they can't go through the radiation belt. That's why they need the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets to have that fuel to leave Earth orbit. It all falls into place. What we have is no independent press coverage.

Starting point is 03:58:22 the word of two people who have top secret clearance and photographs that have already been clearly faked. We have an eyewitness who saw them film it at Cannon Air Force Base June 1st, 2nd, 3rd of 1968, even confessing to killing somebody to cover it up. So if they're willing to fake a full-body picture, a little shadow of footprints or lunar module, I don't think they're going to have a problem with that. And to tell you the truth, looking at it as a professional cinematographer, it looks like that lunar module was pasted on there. But that's just me. Well, I don't know whether they sent everybody else

Starting point is 03:58:57 but they sent me to the moon. I'll stand by that. I love it, Charlie. Well, hey, man, thank you so much for doing this. This has been a fascinating discussion. I learned a lot. Bart, thank you for your time and for making this happen. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how the public takes this

Starting point is 03:59:19 and they will decide what they want to believe. But thank you guys. This has been a pleasure. Very fun. And bartcybrel.com, people can find you there. Yeah, it'll be in the link of the description of this video. Oh, I will. Get all the, well, you did last time.

Starting point is 03:59:34 That's what you said. That's what you told me you would. And anyway, it has all the video clips there. They can look at them. I may upload separately all the clips that we've done here and just label them debate clip one through 30. Okay. Let people decide.

Starting point is 03:59:49 for themselves. Okay. Charlie, is there any way people can get in touch with you if they want to... Charlieduke.com. Charlieduke.com? Okay.

Starting point is 03:59:57 And subbrel.com, S-I-B-R-E-L. And Charlieduke.com and Sabrell. Both linked down below for folks. Thank you guys again. That was very fun. It's a pleasure. Thank you very much.

Starting point is 04:00:07 Very interesting discussion. Very interesting. Good night, everybody. This episode sponsored by Forkful. Most meal delivery services promise healthy food, but look closer and you'll often find cheap industrial seed oils hiding in the ingredients. Forkful does things differently. Forkful delivers

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Danny Jones Podcast - #352 - NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic | Charles Duke & Bart Sibrel

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