Danny Jones Podcast - #37 - American Greed: Behind the Scams | Matt Cox

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

Con artist Matt Cox joins the Koncrete podcast to watch and break down his entire episode of American Greed 'The Bonnie & Clyde of Mortgage Fraud'.  Matt's new book: https://amzn.to/2QtJ4mu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are okay Do you have enough raw sugars over there? I mean, listen, this is, this was Look at all that shit. It's not, it's not what it looks like. It's not an issue. It's not an issue. It's, I, you never know.

I've got them before where they give them to me and they don't put any fucking sugar in them. Matt's got raw sugar running through his veins right now. I'm almost done with this one and I'll finish that one. I mean, I gotta be up. I woke up at 4 o'clock in the morning. I ran five and a half miles. I'm fucking, I'm dead, bro.

I'm working all day long. I drive all. the way over here. It's like 40 bucks worth of gas. I drive a piece of shit vehicle. Yeah. I'd put more oil in my car the other day. I'm putting a quart of oil a month in that thing. Anyways, what are we going to do

today? So we had the great idea. Actually, you know what? I'm going to give this kid a shout out. You had a great idea. This is a great idea. This wasn't actually my idea. No. I'll I'm going to admit that this wasn't my idea. Huge shout out to this dude on Instagram. Jack McHugh.

All right. Dude DMed me and said, Hey, Danny, was watching the channel. I had an idea for content with Matt Cox. We thought about doing commentary while you guys watch his American Greed episode. It would be great content. Great fucking idea. And here we are. Two days later, we're doing it.

All right. I'm in the middle of doing a podcast. Let me call you back, period. Also, I'm looking for the second porn star's name, period. You're such a big shot now. You talk to text in the middle of the podcast. You're getting flown out. You just got flown to Houston to do a podcast for,

value tainment how did that go i think i should clarify that statement that sounds true i'm working on a story it's a porn star shit it's there's porn star in the story okay that's what the text yes that was a text yes that was a writer guy that i work with so okay um so yeah yeah i got it okay so um how was your trip to houston you did a huge podcast out there uh it was good it was good it was with uh Patrick bet david he does a value taintment and uh he contacted me Because somebody on his staff, one of the producers saw this. And he brought it up and said, you got to see this. And he told him about my story.

He said, oh, I got to see that guy. And they flew me out there and I did it. And it was good. The problem with it was the guy has, he actually interviews you. Unlike concrete. Unlike concrete. So he actually has like a format where he starts asking questions. and instead of just let me tell the story,

I end up kind of being interviewed and being thrown questions that I have no... It's that you never get a rhythm. Like, I'm used to telling the story. I've been telling the fucking story for 10 years. So I'm used to just telling the story. I sit down and they go, so what happened, bro?

And I go, okay, here's what happened. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So I have the whole thing laid out. What's hard when somebody says, so when did you get in the mortgage industry? Oh, okay. What are your parents like? Oh, okay.

Well, what happened? You're like, fuck, I'm all over the place. I'm like, I got no rhythm here. So I don't feel like... They chopped the shit out of that. I don't feel like I did a good job. They edit the shit out of it. They produce the fuck out of that thing.

They add all kinds of music. They do a good job. Yeah, it's great. It's super entertaining. Yeah. I mean, he's got a fucking huge stout. Like when I walked in, you know, it's not, it's not a buddy's place. Oh, hell no.

It's a fucking production, bro. He's got fucking cameras. He's got two camera guys. He's got a producer. He's got a fucking assistance. There's like five guys in the room. You're dealing with big shots now. So, okay.

So what are we doing today? What I did get to talk about on the podcast. What did you get to talk about? Tell me. I got to talk about the book. You're not even fucking helping, bro. Shark in the housing pool. Shark in the housing pool.

Is this about real estate? Not kind of. It's my story. This is my story. This is your personal story. Yeah, this is what really happened. This is the real fucking. Holy shit.

Even when I researched this when I was writing it because I didn't know everything. I'm getting FBI 302 forms in. I'm getting the fucking. M-O-I forms from the Secret Service. Like, there's all kinds of shit. I didn't know that were happening behind the scenes. Is this just the final cover? You're going to have it like this, but in color?

Well, that's a proof. This is, well, I'm actually thinking about, I was going to do another cover. You should do fucking red text with, like, the blue water in the background. Just like Jaws. Everybody's a critic. No, I was going to do another one, blue with a bunch of sharks and have me on the front cover.

Only, you know, typically I wasn't going to do that, but I thought about it. I thought all my other books have the actual subject. on the cover. So this one I thought, well, maybe I should be on that. Somebody said, you should be on the cover. So me on the cover with a bunch of sharks and whatever. So, but yeah, that's the book.

Man, it's like, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, people are going to love this one because everyone loves your story, I think, the most. Listen, I, everybody, you know, here's what the thing is. Everybody on the, in the comments are like, oh, you know, I'm so glad you're turning a new leaf and you're staying out of trouble and you're doing right thing, buy a fucking book. If you want to help me, you know, oh, I've even had people, man, I wish I could contribute. Well, you can. I have a Patreon account, actually.

Yeah, I created Matt a fucking Patreon account. You should go donate money to it and go buy his shit on Amazon. So this is, uh, so I have a book. I have a book. Buy the fucking book, bro. Buy it. You got more than one. You got plenty.

Man, it's Amazon. It's great. It'll be at your house in like three days. So that's a book. And this is what actually happened. And I'm even hard on myself in it. I mean, I say exactly just what happened. This is what happened.

This is how it happened. The whole thing. Unlike American greed. Which we are about to watch. Thanks for the introduction. It's about 90% true. Maybe 95. It's a little skewed here and there.

But yeah, you know, it's pretty accurate. But there's some fucked up shit. You were locked up the first time you saw this, right? No. It came out. They came to me. This was part of the reason I got a reduction was just to do the interview with American degree. They came to me, sent me a letter, sent my lawyer a letter, sent the U.S.

attorney a letter, said, we're doing this story. We'd like to talk to Cox. I called my lawyer. My lawyer said I got the letter. The U.S. attorney's already called me. They want you to do an interview. So they set up an interview, a phone interview, because you can't get, you cannot get cameras into federal prison. Anytime you see, people will say, oh, no, I've seen pictures of guys on camera in prison. Yeah, those are state prisons. They're not federal. So you can't get a camera in. So I did a phone interview, and they used bits and pieces of the phone interview. Okay. They interview Allison Arnold, which is one of my co-defendants.

They interview, who else? They interview the U.S. Attorney. They interview the Secret Service agent. They do not interview Candace Calderon, which is the FBI agent. The lady who called you and you were on Ron. Yeah. That would have been good. Yeah, that would have seen her too.

She's like, I'm telling you, she's like 5'10. Fake breasts. Good looking, intimidating as fuck. Mean. Like, just fucking angry, bro. Like, there's no reason to be that angry. Just even, I mean, literally there was literally when she was interviewing me, there was a, a, don't lie to us. Moment.

I was like, the fuck. She's in the fucking table. I mean, she was like, it was like something out of like a, like a real. cop show or something. I was like, the fucking lion, what are you talking about? Yeah, she's, she's got, she's got issues. Wow. She's got anger management issues. She's still around? She's still in the agency?

She's got it. She has to have retired by now. Yeah, that was a fucking long time ago. But where were you the first time you saw this episode? I was, uh, I was in the halfway house and Tron Calta, uh, Trian Calta had hired me to work there. And so I, I show up, he and this, a buddy of his Mike. So he and Mike, I walk in a, I'm, I'm like, hey, what are you guys? I come in and he's like, yeah, he's like, we got something for you. I go, what's that?

And he pulls out the episode. And it's, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I'm like, no. He's like, yeah, bro, we got it on Hulu. Yeah, so they put it up and we watched the whole thing. And what was funny, like you said, the commentary, literally the whole time we're watching it, like on his phone, he would go, every once in a while something would happen, he'd stop it and go, is that what really happened? I'd be like, yeah, that's what happened. And he'd go, is that what happened?

And I go, no, that what, kind of, and then I explain it. So that was my first. So I've already done this, really, once. All right, let's do this. Let's roll this thing. Dun-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Here we go. The premiere of the, what's the title of this American Greed episode?

Is there like a title to it? Yeah, the Bonnie and Clyde of mortgage fraud. The Bonnie and Clyde of mortgage fraud. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. Are you going to put it up? In this episode of American Greed. He had millions and millions and millions and millions. and millions and more millions.

Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawke. Matt says, I got to get out here. I got to leave. You know, you want to come. The Bonnie and Clyde of mortgage fraud. This plan was to get as much as he can. Look at you, dude. Look at that hairline.

I know, that's... This is rough. You look Hispanic. What was tan? And go somewhere else and do it. That's elephant. At that point, I really did. I thought they'll never catch me.

This is kind of what your value tainment podcast is going to look like. In Tampa, Florida, a young man named Matt Cox is making a killing in real estate. He has fast cars, lots of cash. There's always a pretty woman at his side. Part of his character was like this mystery man, like this mysterious. Like, who is he? This is stupid. Allison Arnold is new to Texas.

So who is Allison Arnold again? Um, Allison Arnold was a mortgage broker that was working for another mortgage company. And she and the guy, the guy that owned the mortgage company, I mean, his name is Eddie Sorales. Eddie owned a mortgage company called Tampa Heights Mortgage. And she was working there. Well, Eddie called me up one day. He's like, look, she's got this. She's a mortgage broker.

She's got this loan. We can't get it closed. I don't know what to do. can you talk to her? So I go in and I look at the thing and I remember the comparable sales were too far away and there were no comparable sales that justified the sales price in the area and I was like look they're going three and a half miles away and she was like yeah that's what

they said and I was like look everything's good in it but the appraisals fucked up you need to and she's like well what do I do I said well give me the file and I'll close it and she's like well what do I get I was like well I mean I'll give you 500 bucks she's like I need what do you $500 I was like you can't close it You can't close the loan. It's done. He's got a real estate commission off it.

These people want to buy the house. Give me the file. You're good. Thanks. I appreciate it. $500. That's what you get for a referral fee. And she's like, I really need the money.

And look, you saw her. Look at her. You know, I'm a sucker. I mean, fuck, she's adorable. So, which, you know, it's wrong to, you know, judge her on that because she was also a very smart person. Single mother. Single mother. Single mother.

which we know I like. To Tampa, she's recently divorced, struggling to raise a young son. Allison meets Matt Cox in the spring of 2003 and quickly begins to fall for it. He had a nice place. He had really nice furniture. He was just really well connected. His friends were all young and successful. I thought the mortgage business was it.

Matt Cox is a mortgage broker, real estate rehabber, an overall renaissance man. talented artists who paint elaborate murals in all his properties. I forgot about that. And he's obsessed with stories about con men. Well, that's actually an artist by the name of Tamara Dila Peck. And she's one of my favorite artists. And I would make collages of her artwork. Because the place I bought was built in like 1901.

And she was circa, I'd say 1920s, which was the Art Deco. So it was close. It's a different style. But whatever, it was close. It was, so I, collages and I, I mean, and I paint them and, and, uh, they were cool. But the Allison thing, I was going to say, what ended up happening was I ended up splitting, I think I split the commission with her. So, okay.

But I ended up closing the loan that she couldn't close. Okay. And so she ended up coming to work for me because she was like, look, I can't, you know, you, I couldn't close this thing here. Got it. Got it. You handed it to, you guys close it like that. And I said, look, come work for me. I talk about, I talk about all that. in this book.

He loved going in the movie theater, and we would go and see movies like the one that I fell in love with that we saw was the Italian job. To us. And he just loved that movie. He's like, look at them, and they got away with it. You know, he loved when people got away with it. Don't break my heart. You told me you were through.

After this, I am, I swear. Like his heroes in the movies, Matt Cox dreams of doing one big score. and then going legit. Here's the plan. He'll assume fake identities. Take out multiple mortgage loans. How did they get those ID cards? I was just thinking that.

Because you know, I've only seen this once. Do they make those? No, no. Those right there, I think those are the actual ones. I think the Secret Service probably gave the tone. Really? I mean, the Secret Service is interviewed. I'm sure they gave full cooperating.

U.S. Attorney's Office was interviewed him. They wanted this episode. Multiple mortgage loans on properties he doesn't own and pocket the money. On average, each loan will be around $100,000. All I wanted to do was get a million dollars and, you know, open a legitimate business, sell paintings or buy some real estate and rent out apartments or something legit so I didn't have to do anything else. Allison goes to work at Matt Cox's mortgage company, not knowing what's in store for her. Just a few weeks later, Cox calls in a favor. When Allison was down on her luck, he helped her out. He rented an apartment for Allison and bought her new furniture.

Now it's payback time. Does that sound sinister? Is that true? That's actually true. I did buy her. She had, she was going, it does sound sinister. She was going through a divorce. First of all, first of all, I don't owe you anything.

I met you because you gave me a loan. I gave you your money. Yeah. You wanted to come work for me. You came to work for me. Great. I gave her a bunch more loans. She closed more loans.

These are fraudulent loans. She knows that fraud's being done there. So I'm not luring you. And you know what's going. You have closed several loans at this point. They're fraud. Yeah. So, but one of the things was she was living,

in her husband's house and they were going through a divorce. She wasn't divorced already. She was getting a divorce. So I was, I'm sleeping with her. I'm sleeping with another girl named Jana. So these two are fighting back and forth. It's just a fucking soap opera, bro. Jana lives across the street from me.

She's got a fucking girlfriend. That chick hates my guts. I mean, it's just fucking ridiculous, bro. I mean, Jana's chasing fucking Allison out of the house. She's chasing other girls out. I mean, it's just, it's fucking outrageous. the point is is that I end up she needs a place to stay

and she's like look I'm in my husband's house you know Jana showed up at the fucking house one day at her husband's house where she lives and is telling him she's fucking his boss I mean it's just ridiculous so he's like you gotta get out so she gets out and she's like what do I do I'm like look well I don't want her to move in with me I mean I like Allison but

can't have her move in with me you know so I go and I rent her an apartment in the name of Brandon Green one of my fake people So I rent the apartment. I then take his credit cards and I go buy her a bunch of shit at home, at rooms to go, buy her a bunch of furniture, all Brandon Green, Brandon Green.

She's got like a, I think it was a two-bedroom, two-bath. Nice place in Ebor City. And with that new huge apartment complex. So she moves in there. I give her fucking money. I pay her fucking rent. I don't owe you anything. But I'm doing all of this, but the way they make it sound,

he's, you know, he got her a place. She owes him. You didn't owe me anything. She's asking me to commit fraud. But, you know, but I mean, but what they are saying is, yeah, she did come to work for me. That's true. She did come to work for me. She was making money doing fraud.

I did rent her a place. So, you know, to me, that's like a 90% that's like 90% true. I mean, they're just kind of tweaking it a little bit, which is fine. He's like, Allison, I'm helping you and my investors are helping you so that we have your loyalty, so that you'll do anything for us. There are no investors. What the con man wants is for Allison to be his partner in crime. He wants her to assume a fake identity and apply for a mortgage loan.

Not once or twice, but seven times with seven different banks. He's already stolen an identity for her, the name Rosita Perez, a real person who supposedly crossed a friend of his. The funny thing is, is look at me. I've got bluish-green eyes. I had blonde hair at the time, pale skin, and I was portraying to be Rosita Perez. The bankers, the closer for the title company,

they're like, how did you get this name? You're not Puerto Rican or Spanish, are you? And my license said I had brown eyes, and I clearly didn't. Maybe Allison looks too innocent to pull off a card. Whatever the reason, the first time she tries it, she's successful. She walks away from the bank with a check for $117,000. What was that about? Yeah, what?

She and I went and we found a house. We rented the house. She rented the house. I went with her. We walk in the house. She likes it. The guy comes in, the investor that owns the house. Comes in, meets her.

She signs a lease. She gives them some money. She rents the house. I go to public records. I take the deed that's in the house from his name, and I put it into her name, Rosita Perez's name. And we satisfy the loan that he had on the house.

So now she owns the house. Rosita Perez owns the house free and clear. So then we apply for like five, six, seven, five or six or six or she, they said seven mortgages. I want to say it was five or six, but whatever. Let's say it's seven. Who cares?

She applies for the loans. We schedule a bunch of loans. Over the next two or three days, she's going to close on like a million. million worth, almost a million dollars worth of loans. Maybe seven. On this dude's house? On this guy's house.

I mean, you know, I feel bad about that. What am I supposed to say? I mean, that's what it was. I mean, he's going to be fine. Yeah, he's going to be fine. Eventually, the title insurance companies will pay it back, pay it off. That's what always happens. There's a choice for that.

No one feels bad for the insurance companies. Anyway. Okay. This is surveillance footage of Allison trying to deposit the check. I was the girl that went to the bank and I gave the check to the teller. I would say, okay, deposit this into my account. And then I would go slowly to pull the money out week after week. Supposedly.

We never got that far. The check wouldn't clear the bank because the driver's license was fake. Yeah. You know what happened? You know what happened there? Okay, so here's what really happened. Oh, three. So here's what really happened.

what really happened was the girl, and I'm not going to say the girl's name, which was a mortgage broker that worked for me. Why wouldn't you want to say her name? Well, because she's currently, works at a bank. Oh, okay. She had a friend, a girl that she says fucked her over. Like, oh, she tore up my, she was living in her house.

She tore up my furniture. She cost me $10,000. You know, if you want to use her information, I want to get her fucked up, fuck her, you know, do something. You know, this chick's committing fraud. on a daily basis at the mortgage company too, by the way. So she's like, can you do it? I'm like, I don't want to do anything.

I don't want to steal anybody's identity. I'm making the fake people. But she keeps pushing. Allison's pushing. So I use her because she had like 750 credit scores. So I was like, okay. So I said, yeah, but this chick is from New York. Does she have a driver's license down here?

She says, no, she just moved here a few months ago. She hasn't even opened a bank account and nothing. So she doesn't have a driver's license issued in Florida. I can go and get and make you one. that hasn't been placed with anybody yet or signed anybody, and then I can go and I could open up a bank account. I'd been doing it. All my fake people are opening up bank accounts using fake driver's license numbers.

So I can make one for her, and it will be fine. So we put it on the license. Allison goes and opens up a bank account, and the bank count, it gets flagged. Because it turns out that... The girl had gotten a driver's license, which I didn't know about because I was told she didn't have one. So she did get a driver's license in Florida. She did have one assigned.

So when she walked in, she gave her a different number. It wasn't the same number that showed up in check systems. They said, boom, there's this fraud. Something's wrong. So she wasn't able to open the bank account. But that's not even the main issue. The main issue was that she went to one title company, closed the title, got the money. The next closing she went to, the woman at the title company,

looked at her license and went, this doesn't look like you. It was her. It was her license. It was her picture. I had her dye her hair black and curl it and go in and get a DMV photo and do the whole thing. It was really her picture.

Wow. But a couple days before the closing, she dyed her hair blonde. And we were like, what the fuck are you doing? And she's like, no, it's still my picture. And we're like, you're Rosita Perez. You're a Spanish chick. At the very least, I mean, yeah, you can say that you were married,

but you still, why, Why change your hair's black in the picture? And so she's like, it's not a big deal. I mean, what's the problem? Oh, my God, you're overreacting. So she goes in, boom. Second closing, the woman at the title company is like, something doesn't make sense.

Has her sign all the documents but won't give her the check. Wow. So that's what really happened was then she goes in the bank. She can't open the bank account. Then she gives the check to a buddy of mine who's running a similar scam in Orlando. And it's been flagged. So now it's been flagged. That's what really happens.

They streamline it. Okay. Thanks, but none will take it. Though this scheme is foiled, Cox hasn't given up the dream of doing one big score. And living the rest of his days on a beach in the Caribbean. Is that true, did you have a certain amount of money in your head? I'm just going to hit one big lick and then I'm moving to the Caribbean.

Is that true? No, not really. And I say that. I just want to get like a million dollars and I mean I may have said that and I did want to get some money. You know, I didn't quit. I don't think I had a million dollars because there were multiple times we had a million dollars. Okay, yeah, that's what I thought. You know what I'm saying?

So it doesn't, but a lot of times you have to understand too. If we had $5 million or $3 million out, well, if we own $4 million in fucking mortgages or $4 million in real estate, you see what I'm saying? It's like you never really have that money. Exactly. It's always... Right. Matt was the most greedy person out there. And what he wanted was money, money, money.

He didn't care who he hurt, who he stepped on, or what he had to do in order to get it. Nice. So listen, I'll tell you right now. So I was watching this in, when I was with Trian and Mike at the gym, when she said that, I'd been talking to Allison in the halfway house, right, the whole time. So I picked up the phone and I called her right then. Right then. And I went, Matt is the greediest person I've ever met in my entire life.

And she goes, you don't understand. They interviewed me for hours. They chopped it up. It's not like that. It's not like, it's what you said. And she's like, you know, I'm so, I was trying to get my sentence reduced. You don't. I was fucking laughing

I was like I don't care it's fine oh my god it was funny though Cox and Allison break up and Cox goes looking for another woman to play Bonnie to his Clyde he's very

you know charming in the beginning told me how much he cared about me and loved me and wanted you know with us to get a place together Rebecca Hawk is another single mom

who's fallen under the spell of Matt Cox her story story does not have a happy ending. But it begins with promise. All of his friends have a brand new cars, gorgeous homes. I mean, and I'm thinking, how the heck is, I'm barely making it? I sure I'm a single mom, but.

Why have a quote. Matt Cox is an unlikely ladies man. He's diminutive. Diminutive. How about those jeans? It's just mean. What was fucking 2000? It was 2000.

It was two thousand. Two thousand three. It's 2003. So the guy that we stole the house, remember we got the house from? Here's a quote from him in the book. Because at the beginning of each chapter, I put, and his name was a Stephen Jackson, real estate investor. He put, it's almost impossible to stop them when they're this talented and smart, as smart as these people. Wow.

So I have a bunch of quotes from just different things that people have said throughout the whole thing. But I remember I had a quote from him. That's a good quote. Yeah. But what he lacks in height he makes up for in street smarts. He was very persuasive as far as how he handled things and talked to people and got things. I needed the part, Dan. And he was in charge of a lot.

So I liked that. I liked that he could, you know, the way he handled things. Matt Cox grew up in Tampa. He showed an early... Whoa! Look at that. How old were you there? 17?

Jesus. art in college. In an exclusive phone interview with American greed, Cox says he always knew art was no way to get rich quick. I guess they were going to be good enough or make enough money as an artist to

survive. His real talent is the art of the cod and the knack for finding the perfect sidekick. They were single mothers, divorced, they had money problems. They met him by and large on online

dating services where he came across as this sort of smart well-to-do mortgage broker you know who's artistic and who is this guy this is Jeff Testerman he wrote 34 35 articles on me for the St. Peterburg Times he's kind of like the guy that broke the story oh really yeah really has a great sense of humor and drives a nice car I think that the women, while vulnerable, wanted a piece of the pie as well. He could tell that I was, you know, someone that wouldn't tell on him. And, you know, he could... But in the meantime, he's offering me all this money and saying he wants to take care of my son and I,

send Bryce to a private school. And I'm thinking, you know, okay. I knew about a month. Finally, you know, I met someone that wants to take care of my son and is capable of doing it. And not really paying attention to the... or not wanting to pay attention to what he was doing and how he was doing. I was here online and knew her about a month. We've been on.

Matt Cox decides Rebecca Hawke's ideal partner. He shows her a good time, charms her, and takes her to a movie that could be about his own life. We saw Matchstick Man and it's about a con. You're a con man? Con artist. Yeah, I think we did see that. Flim Flam Man, Mastick Man, Loser, whatever you want to call, take your pet.

A lot of it was probably me just wanting to be. wanting to overlook it more so than being realistic and thinking, okay, what do you get involved in here? When American greed returns, Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawk go on the run and swindle the world's biggest bank. What bank was it? The world's biggest bank you said. The Bank of America? This is great so far. Con artist.

You prefer con artist over conman? It kind of hits confidence. You're an artist and your, you're an artist and your. It's true. In Tampa, a rogue mortgage broker named Matt Cox is assuming fake identities to take out multiple mortgage loans on properties he doesn't own, pocketing the money and making millions in the process. The year is 2003. In a red-hot real estate market, the con man hides in plain sight.

Everybody was getting rich. Everybody was flipping property. Jeff Testerman is an investigative reporter with the St. Peterman. Petersburg Times. In the fall of 2003, he gets a tip from an associate of Matt Cox. And we began to talk. And he suggested things to me the way a good source is supposed to do. He gave me the leads, and I went to the courthouse and got the documentary evidence to show

that he was telling the truth. Testerman's source says that Matt Cox, the artist, is using a palette of fake names. I called them color-coded aliases. Charles White, James Red, Brandon Green. Matt Cox had a sense of humor about these things. Cox uses the aliases to create sham. Reservoir dogs? Reservoir dogs.

I had William Blue. I had Lee Black. I had Michael White. I had Brandon Green, James Red, David Silver. There are a bunch of them. And a bunch of them. That's where you got it from.

Yeah, yeah. That's great. Yeah, remember I told you the guys where the guy had to, the way I was doing? Because the people don't exist. So who's going into the closing? Right. Right.

So I, the title companies would let, because I was, because of the mortgage company, and we were doing so many mortgages, you could go to a title company if you were the broker and you could say, look, my guy's at work. Can I bring him the title stuff,

the title policy or sorry can i bring the closing documents to his work and let him sign them and they're like i'm supposed to be there to notarize it and they you know but you know if you're closing a bunch of loans with this this title company what are they going to say it's like you know hey man what's the big deal we closed fucking 10 loans here last month 20 what you know and they're like all right all right they give me give it to me so they'd give me the package and i'd have lee black sign the documents i'd go sit in the parking lot and sign the fucking document documents. And then they'd say, make sure you get a copy of the driver's license. No problem. I'd have a copy of the driver's license. I'd put it down. I'd go back in and I'd hand it to

them. They'd go, thanks, Matt, and then they'd notarize their signature. The guy was never there. They'd hand me all the checks and I'd leave. I've got all the checks. They've got a closing package. The lender has a closing package. I make three or four payments, five, six payments, and then I let the place go into foreclosure. So what ended up happening one time? So I know, I know, ever went to a close. I only ended up going to one closing at SunTrust. I borrowed $250,000 and I went in as James Red. But I think it was James Red. Anyway, one time we were doing closings and someone, somehow or another, the title agent figured out, she figured out that something wasn't right. Like somebody told her, I'm almost positive someone did tell her. Somebody told her, look, these loans that you're closed.

these people don't exist. Because suddenly she called the mortgage broker and she said, listen, this guy James Red, the next closing he has, he has to show up. Well, when I made these fake driver's licenses, I would, I need a photo. So I would go online to Hillsborough County's arrest records, and I would just get a photo. Well, for James Red, I was using the photo of a guy named Eric Tamargo, A guy that used to trim lots for us.

Like he'd trim the trees and clean the yards and everything and holloway garbage. If I bought a piece of shit house for $40,000, he'd clean up the yard and take the stuff away. So I had gone online one day and I found his picture. I was like, fuck. So I used his picture for James Red. Put it in there. Not thinking anything. Just more of a joke.

Because a lot of the guys were people I knew because I thought, you know, maybe if I need the guy, I need to know the guy, I don't know. It just felt like it's getting a pickle. Yeah, I could at least go to him and maybe try and get him to act as a person or something. I wasn't sure. So anyway, what happens is this chick Mary at the title company calls up and says, look, James Redd has to show up at the next closing. She knows something's wrong. So fine.

So the broker calls me and tells me that. And I'm like, okay, well, he's got to show up then. And she goes, well, how is he going to show up? He's a mugshot on the Hillsborough County. website and I was like, well, I'm gonna fucking go, I'm gonna, I gotta track the guy down. I'm gonna get, I'll get him to show up. And she goes, fuck. So I call up Eric and Eric comes in. I say, hey, Eric, what's up? And he sits down. He goes, hey, man, what's going on? I said, look, I need to tell you something. You know all these houses. But we've been flipping? We've been buying and you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I said, okay,

let me tell you what we're doing what's really happening. And I explained it to him. We're buying the houses for 40. We're recording them at 200. We're borrowing 160. We're fucking walking away with a chunk of cash. We're reinvesting the money. We're reinvesting the that's what we're doing. Fake people. He's like, fuck. He was, that's fucking, man, that's fucking, that's something else, bro, that's amazing.

He wasn't pissed? He wasn't pissed. He didn't know yet. Oh. I was using his picture and his identity. His picture, right. So he sat there. He's like, man, he goes, so why are you telling me, bro?

I said, well, because this woman found out something's wrong. And she's saying that this guy, James Red has to show up. He goes, fuck, bro. He's who are you going to get to show up? Like, well, I was thinking you. And he goes, oh, fuck, bro. because that's a that's a big favor that's a big favor

and I go I mean it is a big favor Eric I said he was man I don't know and I said and he goes well wait a minute I can't show up anyway bro

he goes you're using you said you're using some scumbags fucking picture off the off the fucking Hillsborough County website I went that is true I said the problem is Eric I said I've been using

your picture from when you beat up your wife a couple of years ago remember you finally slapped her around I said I you got arrested I said I use your he's motherfucker he jumps up and he's ready to fucking swing this dude would beat the brakes off

me by the way he's not the fucking guy to fuck with he's like a street tough guy and I'm like oh ah Eric listen listen listen to the only reason I use your picture the only reason I used your picture is because I knew if it came to this you were the only person I knew that would have the balls to pull this off

I mean I fucking said it with a straight face too oh yeah he looked at me he goes yeah that's true bro that's true I mean I was like and he goes why I'm doing it for free because I'm not doing it for free I said no no of course not bro I mean obviously I'll pay you so what do you want

and he goes and I remember thinking if he asked for like more than like 10 15 grand I'll fucking change title companies and I'll go in myself like I didn't want to go in myself I'm already on federal probation so I was like I'll just go in my fucking self I'll have to redo the ID.

I'll do this. And he sat there and I go, so what do you want, man? What do you want? I'm thinking, if he has for more than 10 or 15, I'm, and he goes,

I want $500. And I went, say no more. $500. Jesus, God, all my. Eric, are you serious?

500 bucks? It's five minutes. It's going to be fun. So I argue with him like, it's a big deal. He's like, no, man, I ain't doing it,

right, right, right, right, bro. All right, but I'm not giving you the money until you sign. No, no, Of course, I'll sign first.

Sure, no problem. I know you're good for it. Great. We go in, we go into the fucking title company. I make him on fake ID. He walks in. Mary comes out and walks in the day of the closing. She walks out and sees me sitting there.

She goes, Mr. Cox, why are you here? I said, I'm not doing the closing unless James Red shows up. So Eric stands up and goes, I'm James Red. And she goes, hold on one second. She goes, gets the file, comes back, pulls out the fucking. that I've been using of the driver's license holds it up and goes, you could see it in her face like,

fuck, like, I don't know what's going on now. Now, she thought she knew. Now she's like, so-and-so said this and it didn't make sense. And this fucking guy, it's, she's, I'm sorry, Mr. Redd, come on in. So she says, do you have your driver's license? Yeah, I don't have my ID,

I have my driver's license. Because I didn't want to make, I couldn't get the same picture. So I matched it up and she's like, fuck. he closes when we get to closing he sees like 10,000 goes to Dave Walker 15,000 goes to this guy

3,000 goes here, 7,000 he sees all these checks he's starting to put it together this is a lot of money this is $100,000 is being shifted around I'm getting 500 bucks so we get out and I count

I can't give him his 500 bucks and he goes yo bro he's like that was a lot of fucking money then it's a lot of money he said I mean I'm doing it for 500 I said, a lot of that money goes back in the house, Eric. And he's like, well, this is a big deal, man. So he leaves.

Like a week later, I call him back. I need you to do another one. He's like, fuck. He's all right, bro. He's, I'll tell you right now. I ain't doing it for no $500. I saw all them checks. I know you guys are making fucking bank.

I went, okay, bro, bro, what is it? What do you want? He goes, it's a big favor. He's getting a lot of trouble. I said, I know you could, bro. I know you could. What do you want? He's, I want $1,000.

Are you serious, Eric? a thousand? Jesus, man, that's twice what you charge. Man, I get a lot of trouble. I said, all right, bro. All right, but you've got to sign for it. No, no, I'll sign for it. We go in again. Boom. He signs. Mary was so fucking bamboozled.

The next time that I actually call up and schedule a closing, I say, hey, Mary, can I pick up the fucking thing this time, or you still got to see this guy? No, no, it's okay. And she lets me take the package. Jesus. Starts all over again. So that's how, like that's the only time I had to have somebody show up. Then I ended up showing up like one of the last loans that closes, closed for 250.

I just showed up myself because it was everything was just so streamlined. It was working so well. Right. Well, it seemed that it was working so well. Yeah. Until the Allison thing happened and then it all just kind of fucking, I didn't know it was unraveling. Let's keep rolling it. Real estate transactions.

There were several that, uh, that nothing was authentic on the deed. He created a phony buyer and a phony seller. When you've got that going, you can pretty much do anything you want to with the price and the mortgage. In 2003, money is loose, and so are lending standards. Cox applies for loans online, and he uses his artistic talent to forge any document he needs to support the loan. He fakes driver's licenses. licenses, W-2s, checking accounts, and Cox even brags about stealing the identities of homeless people. I ordered a Social Security card. I ordered everything. Went and sat in DMV for three hours,

and they gave me a driver's license as Gary Sullivan. It was easy. This is one of Cox's fake documents. It purports to be a satisfaction of mortgage statement, A document that says Cox owns a property free and clear. It's signed by two witnesses, Lee Cook and Jimmy Balls. Their characters dreamed up by Cox. The two witnesses, Balls and Cook, I think Cox's shorthand on this would be, you know. Arrogance. Yeah.

This is arrogance. It's just stupidity. I just, you know, I'm really cooking the books with this deal. and it really takes balls to do it. Cox files the document at the Hillsborough County Courthouse. To most banks, it looks legit. And Cox can take out mortgages on a property that he doesn't even own.

The person that's living in the property is still making the payment, so it's not drawing any kind of red flag or anything. So that's what he would do. And you just get someone that's working at the courthouse doesn't, you know, they're not paying attention. And you have the satisfaction sent back to you and it shows that you own it.

By the end of 2003, Cox has done 90 fraudulent real estate deals. 90. Toteling almost $4 million. By the end of 2003, you had done that much? The end number was, see, the number is always shifting. They said it's like 109 transactions is what the FBI said that I did. And they said I borrowed $11.5 million. Now he's saying, what do you say, $4 million?

Mm-hmm. But at the St. Petersburg Times, Jeff Testerman is about to go to print with a major expose of Cox's skiing. Cox catches wind that he's about to be front page news. And Matt knew that if this came out, it was all going to come down on him. I remember thinking if I ever got in trouble and had to run, I would do that. I would take a bunch of money and run. Matt says, I got to get out of here. I got to leave.

you know, you want to come. Rebecca Hawk has known Matt Cox for just six weeks. Incredibly, she puts her 13-year-old son Bryce on a plane to her mom's house, says goodbye to him and hello to life as a fugitive. It was so hard. And I was crying hysterically. And Bryce is like, Mom, you'll see me in two weeks. And Matt's standing there, and I'm crying.

I'm not standing there. I'm not there at all. When Bryce got on the plane, Matt's like, you'll see him. It'll be okay. you're going to be able to see him as much as you want never you scoundrel stop i never said that how dare you fucking bullshit complete bullshit listen listen this chick this fucking chick man listen when she gets arrested you know what she said about me when they first arrested and immediately interviewed her

but you know remember i told you she suck and says she's not rebecca halk she says i'm my name is rebecca hickie you have the wrong name you have the wrong or you have the wrong person you guys They end up putting her hand on the thing. For like 45 minutes or an hour, she like denies it until they finally put her hand down on the scanner. And then she's like, all right, it's me. So her first interview with me, or about me, was Cox's Meek. He's charismatic.

He's shy. He's not the kind of person that he's not aggressive. I mean, she basically paints me as a guy that's just not going to, is not an aggressive type person or a person that's whatever, mean spirit, whatever you want to say. Then she gets this lawyer with the Johnny Cochran law firm. Oh shit, really?

And it becomes he's abusive, he's manipulative, he forced me to leave my son, he forced me to get a boob job, he forced me to... You out of your fucking mind? I knew you a month. we had a date on like a fucking Thursday night or a Friday night I'm throwing my shit this is when I find out that the police are cut that the that I'm going to be arrested by the FBI with the next few days

I'm throwing my stuff into duffel bags she's been calling me all all day about our date I'm not answering she walks in my apartment or my house as I'm throwing shit in I'm like hey what's up and she's like you're not returning calls what are you doing and I was like fuck we got a date I was like listen a bad bad

news. FBI's coming to arrest me. I'm out of here. And she says, wait, what are you doing? You can't leave. I love you. I want to come with you. We have this whole argument about her son. I'm like, what are you talking about? You got a fucking kid. You can't fucking, I'm leaving. I'm going on the run. Right. You can't come with me. And she's like, no, you don't understand. He's going back. He was going back to live with his father. He basically lived with his father most of his life. She brought him with, from, from Vegas brought him with her. she brought him with her yeah from Vegas he'd been picked up twice for like

being out after like snuck out of her house after curfew he got caught smoking pot he was failing all of his grades she's like I can't handle him he's too much he's I'm sending him back to live with his father anyway she's like you know so she's like look he's going anyway back with his father and I said look you don't understand I said you're not going to see this fucking kid again I said even if you see him it'll be for a couple

hours and it'll be random if you see them at all. And she's like, I don't care. I want the money. If I can see them every once in a while, that's fine. At least I can give him some money. At least, you know, so she's just fucking begging to come with me. She follows me around for two or three days, won't leave me alone. And looking back on it, the truth is, I could have just fucking left her, you know, but she was like really worried about it, really on me. And the truth of matter, it was a major mistake to let her come with me. But at the time, at the time, but at the time, the the moment I was terrified and I was leaving everybody I knew and everything I knew behind. And that's a huge fucking step to make.

For sure. And so, you know, and so I finally, just towards like the last day, I said, okay, look, you can come with me. You know, and looking back on it, it's like, you should, I should have done this. I should have, you know, you got always 20, 20 signs like, you know, it's, it was just a major mistake bringing her with me. major fucking mistake and you know and and I really should have just left her and and for more than the reasons that she ended up just being this bipolar maniac

other than just that it was also because of her son I should have made the decision for her I should have but the truth is I'm going off on the run I'm terrified but I didn't have to be alone and that's a big thing about going off you're leaving everybody behind and everything you know behind and you're alone yeah so it's like

it would be easier with her her there. And so I said, all right, you can come. But I certainly didn't convince her to come or try and get her to come or ask her to come or ask her to leave her kids because then it turned into he's abusive, he's manipulative, he made me get a boob job. I mean, you're out of your fucking mind? I'm not even a boob guy. Sure boobs were fine. It's just, it's just, you know, and then they, then they focus in on the whole single mother, single mother. They don't mention Jana. Jana, Jana, wasn't single. I mean, she didn't have any kids. You know, I dated tons of women that didn't have kids, didn't have any kids. They always, see, you got to practically cut this out because I get so

fucking angry about the whole fucking thing. It's just irritates. That damn Johnny Cochran law firm. I mean, you know what's so funny is that normally I'm very poised about the whole thing. Like, you know, it was my fault and I'm apologetic and I do the whole thing. But this, this, this, it's like being just blatantly lied about, it just infuriates me. And I just, and it's just, you know, you know, and what's so funny is that, you know, I've talked to her since I've been out, right? You know, and she's like so like normal. How does that conversation go? It actually, she ended up meeting some guy in the halfway house.

They got married. She's got another kid. She's very nice. She's a nice person. Like now, and even she says, I'm like, you were a fucking maniac. And she's like, I was going through something, okay? She's like, it was a bad time for me. She's like, I'm much better now.

I said, I just had, I even told. her look and I was we were talking about the she told me her did I tell you this she told me her lawyer showed up drunk for her at her sentencing oh really yeah she goes she said you know and gail mackenzie and she's talking you know the u.s. attorney she fucking said this and this and everybody was pushing me to say this and say that match you understand i was trying to get my sentence reduced said no i understand i said but you know the problem is now i have to live with it i said so she says well i'm sorry i wish i could do something if i could do something i would i go you could. You could go on the podcast

with me. I said, you could go on a podcast with me and say what really happened. She goes, oh, no, no, no, no, no. She said, I can't do that. Why? She said, because I've been telling my mother and my husband, the story, she said, for the last

12 years, or 10 years, she goes, no, I can't change now. Well, hopefully he doesn't see this podcast. So, and I told it, listen, I, I, I I haven't asked her once, bro. I've asked her like, five fucking times.

I'm like, I'm telling you, then tell your husband, go to your husband. You have a good relationship. He says, oh, my God, he's the best. He's amazing. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. Then he'll understand the situation you were in and you just ran with it because you didn't want to own up to the fact that you made some bad fucking decisions.

So say, look, the guy's out now and I want to clear the ear and I'll feel so much better about myself. I'll feel better about the situation. I want to do the right thing. She says, no, no, no, no, no, no. She says, I'm not going to do that. She said, look, I can't do that. I said, okay.

I said, you understand? I said, at some point, if somebody asked me, I'm going to fucking say it. She goes, no, I understand me. She's never going to meet you. She's like, oh, she said, I understand. So we'll see what she says if I ever talk to her again. Wow. Okay.

A few days later, on December 14, 2003, Testament series dubious deals hits the newsstands. The reporter details of fraud worth more than $4 million. But Matt Cox is gone. He was never seen in Tampa again, ever. The trail went cold for me for a while. Where Cox was, I didn't know. The people who know him best assume he's fled the country.

They think he's gotten on the cruise ship, and he's headed to some island south. Cox's ex-girlfriend, Allison Arnold, is among those asking questions. I always wondered, you know, what happened to them. Where are they? Allison has not been caught for her role. Where did they get those photos of you?

Those photos you wearing like the Superman shirt and sitting on the computer. I'm assuming there. Well, I know the one chick next to me. Was that on your MySpace or something? Myspace. Was that not around in No, 3? I don't think that MySpace was around.

I mean, was it? When was MySpace around? I don't know. I know this chick I met name. When was MySpace started? That's 2003. 2003? Yeah.

Longed in 2003. Well, I wasn't on it. Oh, okay. No, I would say that's probably Allison Arnold and probably Jana. Because the one chick in the picture where I have a Superman thing and she has one, that's Jana. Okay. One of Cox's scams. Six months earlier, she poses as Rosita Perez and takes out fraudulent home loans.

Though the police have not yet come knocking on her door, Allison is worried. She knows the heats on. I was a nervous wreck. I got a job as a waitress because I couldn't work for any bank. My hands would shake. My conscience was so heavy. Allison decides to call the FBI.

So I spilled my guts out. Said everything. Allison tells the feds everything she knows to help them catch cocks. Allison thinks her cooperation will buy her immunity from prosecution. Ugh. She's wrong.

Eventually, she's sentenced to two years in prison for bank fraud. You want to hear this? Fuck. Want to hear this? Yeah. You're going to love this. So there's like 14 or 15 people on the indictment, right? So they've all been indicted.

But the FBI doesn't do anything. They're waiting to catch me. I've talked to a bunch of people. Everybody's going in and saying, Matt did this, Matt did that. Some people are going and say, no, so-and-so did this. So-and-so did this. They're saying, no, I didn't do that. So-and-so, so everybody's pointing, but they've got,

they understand everybody who's involved. Because by the time they talk to me, they're, they've walked in with a stack of fucking three or two. Boom. They're like, I mean, you're done. So, which I know I'm done anyway. So the point is, is that they haven't, they haven't investigated. They haven't arrested anybody. You've known about this for six months or so.

You haven't done anything. Why aren't you arresting? They're waiting to catch me because they figure, we'll catch Cox. We'll catch the top dog. He'll just explain everything that happened. We'll crack everybody in the head and it'll be fine. Right. They don't expect that I'm going to be missing so long.

Allison is riddled with guilt. And she, well, fear. She's like, fuck, they're going to come arrest me someday. So she goes into the FBI and says, I just want to tell you what happened. Get charged, be sentenced, and be done with it. I'll cooperate against everybody. Initially, when she talked to him, she is thinking, I won't go to jail. I'll do probation at the most.

And I'll cooperate. So she goes in, she cooperates. She agrees to plead guilty. Turns herself in. She walks right in. Nobody else does. Guess who the only person that ends up, like, on that indictment that ends up going to prison is the only person that owns up to everything they did. Cooperates against everyone.

Straight to fucking prison. You don't get shit. Fuck you. You go to prison. That's what they fucking did. Everybody else on the indictment? No, half them people are still working in banking. Wow.

And that, I mean, I don't want to say hilarious, but fucked up. That's fucked up. Because, you know, the least, the least culpable person in my entire indictment is Allison Arnold. Really? She walked into one bank, two closings. Didn't make a fucking, I think maybe I gave her, felt I gave her like 10 grand for doing it. Like, hey, look, you know, we really didn't really make any money. but here's like 10 grand or something.

And I'd been giving her money, and she's closing loans. She's doing okay. But we didn't make any money, so where's their money to give you? There's nothing to give you. What about the blonde girl? How much time did she get?

Oh, Becky. Becky wasn't a part of this conspiracy. She's a part of the next conspiracy when I take off on the run. So she's not even on my indictment. Oh, shit, okay. Right. The only other person that goes to jail is Eric Tamar,

but he goes to jail not because of the indictment. He goes to jail because he's already on federal probation and he fails a fucking piss test. And because he's on this other indictment, they go ahead and they violate his probation and give him like 30 months or something. He goes to Coleman, he does the drug program. So, I mean, she's the only one on the indictment

that goes to prison for the indictment. He goes to one on a violation. She, because she felt bad. Guilty conscience. Guilty conscience. I mean, and it's just the nicest person. you know so fuck

hefty sentence for somebody who had no previous criminal records really I had no knowledge of everything that I was totally doing but I followed along and did something yes and I know it was illegal yes

you know everybody knows that right and wrong inside but I just I didn't think the consequences would be like this while Allison faces prison Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawes head to Atlanta.

By this point, I was definitely getting cocky. When American greed returns, Matt Cox lives out a real-life game of Catch Me if you can.

That's true. This is great. This isn't even on YouTube, I don't think, this thing. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, this is going to be... No, there's not...

Guys are in the comments are fucking screaming, bro. We're at the way to find... Somebody needs to get in and post it. Matt Cox and his girlfriend, Rebecca Hawk are on the run.

Cox has swindled more than $4 million from banks in Tampa in a mortgage fraud scam. And he's hungry for more. Hungry. So we went straight to Atlanta. There's the mortgage fraud capital of the world. Is that really? Is one of the hardest hit cities by mortgage fraud? I don't know.

It's about to get worse. I fell for some so hard and so fast. He just made you think that it was no big deal. think that it was no big deal that you know what he was doing was fine and then he would say if it ever comes to it just blame me you don't you won't you won't get job i'll take the blame for everything Cox and hawk go looking for a house to rent with a plan to take over the homeowner's identity i remember this story he used to tell me that people believed women more than they believed men hawk using the name grace hudson poses as a single woman looking to rent this house

Did you really? So how did you go about making that? The older ID, really the new ideas. Is that all with like... That's fucking laminant, bro. That's just laminant. A piece of laminar. You had an exacto knife and a printer or a copy machine?

No, yeah. My laptop. Did you have Photoshop back then? They had, we had this conversation. They had Photoshop. They've had Photoshop, but I just used Word, and I just lined up, everything was identical. I lined up all the fonts, all the spacings, everything, exactly the way. way it would be when you printed out on license.

On Word. On Word. Then I just printed out on a piece of laminate in reverse. Okay. So that then when you have the actual driver, the actual piece of plastic, I would just take 220 grit sandpaper and lightly sand off the actual information, the text, like

your real name. So I have the holograms. I have the Florida ID where it says Florida, Florida, Florida, that whole thing. I have your picture. I have everything. the state of the uh the state of uh the sunshine state and all that everything in green is lodged into the the actual plastic right that's what you left on there you didn't sand that off no everything in black you sand it off just the just yeah just the information right like i would leave the other stuff like

your issue date expiration height all that shit signature no signature i would have to you'd have to sign like hers is grace husset okay so i would then print the laminate overlay it glue it on with an actual glue stick Now you've got the piece of plastic with a thing. Flip it over. Take it an exactor knife, an exactor knife it around. Take some 220 grit sandpaper. Buff off the sides.

Hit it a couple of times. Beat it up a little bit. Like any license you've got in your pocket for six months, it's beat up a little bit. And then now you can go in and say, boom. Boom, million bucks. Here's my name and they look at it and they make a copy. And they, you know, even if they ran the number would work. Like you could go through check systems, open bank account.

I've had dozens and dozens. I've had a shitload of fucking banks opened using a fake driver's license guy's name's wrong to completely fabricate it. How many of these did you create in your entire career you think? Maybe like that

20 or 30? Because then I eventually figured out how to just get the DMV to issue me the goddamn license. I'm just going to get you to just make it because then I can go, I can get pulled over by the cops and hand him the real license he can run it. Yeah. Yeah. Why would I keep making them? Way easier. Yeah.

Poses as a single woman looking to rent this house in Alpharetta, a suburb of Atlanta. She meets with the owner, Michael Shanahan. He and I talked for a while, and he was, you know, he was very nice. And that was a heart, because he was the only person that I really met face to face. Grace Hudson, Rebecca's alias, rents the home. And Matt Cox takes over the landlord's identity. What I did was I used a child social security number and I went and got some credit cards in his name. Went and opened some bank.

By the way, which child was it? It was a child of, there was a family renting it before you or what? Child. No, no. You said you used a child social security number. I went to social security. Right. And I got them to issue a social security number to a child that was 10 months old.

Oh, got it. So it's a fake child. It's not a real child. Right. And I would, then I would mirror it. So I'd pull, get credit. cards in the name of that with that soche and the name michael shanahan i've got your driver's license the driver's license that the date of birth and everything matches that everything matches right

and i've got these these uh credit cards and everything issued to you i open up a bank account in your name i open up everything in your name now it's completely synthetic identity because the only thing it's the same is the name everything else was different on him date of birth address because i wasn't using that address. I used another address. Because when we borrowed money on that house, we didn't borrow it as a owner-occupied property. We borrowed it as a rental property because then they'll issue

you the check right away. And hard money guys don't typically lend money on owner-occupied properties. They prefer to lend money on investment properties. Why is that? I have no idea. It has something to do with the lending and the ability to foreclose on it. You foreclose on investment property. If they're living in it, it's harder to foreclose on it. Way more

difficult. Okay. Accounts, hoping that none of this would hit Michael Shanahan's credit. Now, posing as Michael Shanahan, the owner of this $200,000 house, Cox goes looking for money. Well, I met the fellow calling himself Michael Shanahan at the front door here. John Holman is not a faceless bank. He lends his own hard-earned money to people who need short-term loans. I was there primarily to see the condition of the house. At the time, it didn't occur to me to wonder about his identity or anything to that effect. Cox, posing as Michael Shanahan,

tells Holman he wants to borrow money against the equity in his home. The man seems trustworthy, and the home is good collateral. The story was that he owned a house free and clear and wanted to borrow money against it to start a business. He had just moved back from the UK, wanted to start a business, and needed $110,000 or something. I bought it, hook, line, and sinker. Within a couple of weeks, the deal is done.

Holman has no idea Cox is also talking to a friend of his. On what they call a hard money lender, I lend money mostly to other investors who are buying properties to renovate and resell. Suckers. He wants $106,000 to start a business. They don't interview the bank.

St. Martin, Shanahan seems like a sure thing. It was a 50% loan to value loan up in Alpharetta, Georgia, and a beautiful neighborhood. Very low risk. LTV. Both lenders do their homework. Holman runs a title check on the house and a background check on Shanahan.

At the closing, we got his ID. and he had actually more than the normal ID. He had a Florida driver's license. He had a credit card and a Social Security card, all in the name Michael Shanahan. So everything checked out, and we made the loan thinking that we had secure interest in the property. A month later, Peter St. Martin realizes

Michael Shanahan has missed his first loan payment. Uh-oh. I was gone by this. I pulled out like... A month later? 400,000. Yeah. Within a month?

Yeah. Yeah. That's the one where I actually, where in the bank, they go, uh, when I was pulling, I was trying to cash one of the checks that is Scott Cugno.

And they fucking, they're running a check and everything. Remember the guy was $29,000 check. Oh yeah. And you called them from, and they, well, they called me on my phone. They're like,

hey, we're trying to verify this. I verify my own check. Um, which is in the book. Right. Okay. So,

um, Yeah, and so I end up getting out, like, $400,000. Becky and I get out around $400,000 within weeks, and we just take off. Like, I didn't know, I didn't know these two guys know each other. What the fucking chances are that? I mean, how am I supposed to know? So, anyway, yeah, this is when the Secret Service gets involved. Oh, shit.

But neither man is worried. Each thinks he's the first in line to foreclose, if necessary. And I'm happy about it. And I'm looking forward to taking back this collateral and selling it very quickly at a very nice profit. Although we don't do these loans with the purpose for getting the house back, it's not necessarily a disaster for us. But Matt Cox will have the last laugh.

That's why I remember pretty similar to that, but I remember. A short time later, the two friends are at a concert together and they begin to compare notes. Kind of saying, well, where is your property? You know, because you do most... So John and I were chatting and mentioned that yeah we did this loan you're not gonna you know this guy's first month to fall blah blah blah I don't know what rang a familiar bell there but I asked Peter what street was the

loan on my mine was Keenham and you're like oh no said oh oh it's the same property same address and I said what was the guy's name and he said Michael shanahan and you said I said uh-oh unbelievable well and the fact that he borrowed money from you and me we both know each other and I sat there during the rest of that concert thinking that I was probably out a hundred and ten thousand dollars and not real happy about it john holman calls the u.s attorney didn't you say the insurance companies pay them back here he says the one guy he says you already got paid back he's one of the guys the one guy the gray hair he shows up my sentencing really pretty sure he's the guy he's the one that showed up my sentencing and my u.s attorney is like you know mr holmes or whatever his name is um he uh he

he's mr cocke stole a hundred and ten thousand dollars from him and he that was his own money and he you know this is all he does by this guy's like a multi-millionaire plus he's got a credit line so i mean it's not like he works at 7-11 um anyway he he you know stole his money and he couldn't afford to lose that much money and you never got any of that money back did you and he goes this is in front of the judge at my sentence he goes um uh actually i did get the money back and she goes what what he said i did get the money back she was when when did you get the money back i mean this is the fucking courtroom

there's fucking reporters stop judging me so anyway there's reporters and the fucking judge and they're having this conversation like a fucking hundred people in the fucking thing

and he's like I did get the money back and she's like well when and he's like it was shortly after you know month or two later

I got it back and she goes well well what about the payments he missed he says no no I got the payments back too what do

well you must have something she's like no I got everything back she goes what about well what about an attorney's fees anything oh no no he goes I did I did pay some

attorney's fees because that was about $1,500 yeah yeah I did pay some attorney's fees and she was $1,500 she was well that's a lot of money she said you couldn't afford to lose that could you and he goes um no no I couldn't I couldn't lose there was a lot of money to me and it's like it's like bro I mean oh my god

I mean not that it's not fucked up what I did not that but you know it's she was just they're desperate to fucking make you look as bad as they possibly can. And he got paid back. Yeah. From the title insurance. One of the guys.

One of the guys. Well, no, the other guy gets paid back too. Okay. He just doesn't get paid back during this episode. He's been paid back. Okay. He's not on my, I don't owe him money. He's not a part of my fucking, um, my restitution because he was paid back.

And who paid him back? The title insurance. I said his insurance. The title insurance. Yeah. Company is on my restitution. I owe them the money. Oh, okay.

So it's like if you say, oh, you stole half a million dollars or $2 million from Bank of America or $500,000 or $50,000 from Bank of America. It's like, yeah, but Bank of America got paid back. So why are you saying Bank of America? Because who I really owe is lawyer's title. They paid them back. But see, that's too complicated. So it's easier to say, you stole this money from me.

I never got paid. You owe Bank of America. You owe John, so and so. Well, actually, I don't owe him anything. Right. So, but go ahead. Sorry. He's office in Atlanta, and the case is routed to the U.S. Secret Service.

The Secret Service isn't just in the west wing of the White House. More and more, they're taking on white-collar crime. We protect the president and former presidents, but we also deal with any kind of financial crime, anything that affects the financial infrastructure of the United States. Special Agent Andrea Peacock doesn't know who Michael Shanahan and Grace Hudson really are. It was John and Jane Doe. And when we obtained our initial warrants, John and Jane Doe.

For the two, they were in the name of John and Jane Doe. The Secret Service creates a wanted poster and eventually tracks down a former associate of Cox's in Tampa. He did, in fact, know who he was, and he told us his name was Matthew Bevin Cox. He was real guy. Agent Peacock learns that Matt Cox has taken out three loans on Shanahan's property.

For a total take of more than 300,000, $10,000. Peter St. Martin is out of luck. His title insurance will not cover the loss. $106,000 loss overnight to a small business, that could have easily put me out of business at that time. It hurts. That hurts badly that I don't have access to that money. Agent Peacock talks to the real Michael Shanahan who realizes he's a victim of identity theft. Credit cards and checking accounts have been taken out in his name. And then there's the statue that Cox left behind at Shanahan's house. Oh, yeah.

Pour salt in his wound. You dirtbag. Listen, man. Let me tell you about the statue. That is... Listen, fraud's not a full-time thing, okay? It's, if we fucking... A lot of downtime, we're doing rock climbing.

We're fucking... We're going hiking. We're jogging. We're just fucking... We're doing anything to... So I make this paper-miche statue. of a man. Screaming and agony.

Screaming and agony. Fucking nothing to do with this. Like he's on fire or something. What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm just pointing it out. I'm just saying it's a statue. Anyway,

so what happens is when we go to leave and we're packing up our stuff, I can't fit the statue in the fucking car or in the van that we've got. So I have to leave the, we took out the back.

I'm sorry, we take out the back thing, like the back seat. Yeah. We can't pack everything in. So Becky's like, we're going to have to leave it. You have a big,

like astro van or something? No. Hell, no. It's like a minivan. It was like a, like a Honda element or something. Oh, okay. So I have to leave it.

So I leave it and we leave the back, the back seat in the garage. When this guy shows up at my sentencing, he says that, one, we trash the house. I'm not sure how we trashed the house. We had the carpets cleaned. It was in as good as shape as it was when we left.

I mean, when we moved in. I only had a bedroom set. We didn't buy furniture. We had nothing. We had a fucking bedroom set. And it's just the two of us. We've been there a month or so. We've been there a few months.

So this thing, I leave in the garage. He says, I left it in the living room. And then when he walked in the house, it was in the living room. And the whole house was trashed. Trashed. Trashed with what? We don't have anything. It wasn't trashed and it was in the garage. Not that I'm saying what I did was right. What I'm saying is it, it's always like, it's like, I always picture him like hiking it in and sitting it down and staging the whole thing to, you know, and trashing that. It wasn't trashed. But anyway, yeah, but the statute. So it's, he turns it into it was, he was taunting me. He was, taunting you, bro. You think I, I, I worked fucking hours and hours. You think I didn't. Right. You'd think I didn't want to bring my statue? Ashley would love to redo that statue.

You should. I never... And auction it off. That would be great. Okay. Sorry. All right, let's go. He told me that he felt like he was leaving it behind on purpose because that was the way he felt when he saw that statue and realized what Cox had done to him.

He felt like he was mocking him. I do owe him money. He'd want to leave... He had to pay an attorney. He ended up having to pay an attorney like $4,000. And the attorney contacted all the title insurance companies and had them pay off. All those loans got paid off and everything. And those guys.

So instead of just him calling and talking to the two guys that they just interviewed, like, hey, look, what happened? Okay, my name's, I'm not really, Michael, the real Michael Shanahan. Here's what happened. Instead of doing that, he hired an attorney that did all that for him. And that was about $4,000. Okay. And I own that. documents just as a trail to see this is what I've done.

He's just like, trying to catch me, you can't. Plush with cash, Cox and Hawk go on a spending screen. I went from having absolutely no money to having money. And even now, I think, God, I wasted a lot of money. On nonsense. The chick has been so far. Hawk is obsessed with clothes and jewelry. Matt Cox is all about fast cars and breast implants.

and breast implants. I didn't need them. I mean, I was fine. Everything was fine. Like I said, no complaints whatsoever from anybody else. But he always wanted this kind of trophy person. And of course, me, I'm like, yes, if this is going to make you happy, let me, you know, let me do this. Are you serious?

I could, let the, first of all, she already had fucking boobs. I don't understand what the, it's, it's, she got a boob job. That, she got a boob job. And she, look, you know what happened? Motherfucker. Listen. We ended up stealing a bunch of money. She, you know what?

No, this is when she got it. That's true. We got a bunch of money. And so I was going to have 400 and change, right? Yeah, it was almost 400,000. Okay. Roughly. They said 300,000.

It was like 400. Yeah. I said, look, I'm going to get this done. Yeah. You know, I'm going to get fucking. rhino plat. I'm to get my fucking nose done. I'm going to get a fucking facelift. I'm going to get a bunch of shit done.

Just because it ain't good, bro. My fucking pictures everywhere. They got all kinds of shit happening. You're turning on it. Now we're going on the internet. This fucking, my picture's everywhere now. Not that you're going to find me because you don't know my name, but it's bad. So I was like, I'm going to fucking change this and this. And then she goes, she's like, I want a fucking boob job.

I'm like, fuck yeah. If you want a boob job, get a boob job. I don't give a shit. I don't even want to be around this fucking broad. She's driving me nuts. So she's bipolar. She wouldn't take the medication. She gets on the medication a couple of times.

She gets the cops called all me multiple times because she's screaming at 2 o'clock in the morning. She's a fucking lunatic. So she said she would take the medication for like a month and it would start to work and then she would get off it because she said, I felt like, well, I'm okay now. You're okay because you're taking the medication. But she didn't like the way it made her feel. And it was the only thing keeping her sane. Got it.

So this is the point where you go and spend a shitload of money and get in your face all remodeled. Right. So I get the hair thing done. So that's why I don't have that receding hair line. And the nose job because my nose was round, real round. She'd got some leg implants or something. You said, you know.

I looked into it. But she would have had to have watched me for like three months. I can't have her watch. You would have been immobilized. Are you serious? You saw misery, right? I mean, no, I can't have her watching me. She fucking come in with a baseball bat or something to beat my ass.

Oh, absolutely not. I mean, you don't know. You look at her right now and thinking, oh, she looks such cute. She's sweet. Fucking lunatic. So, yeah, did not ask her to get a boob job. But to be honest, they did do excellent work. It was a Swan Institute.

And it's called the Swan Institute. in Atlanta, and they did excellent. I'm just saying, in general. Nice and firm? Yeah, they were nice. You know, they were, you know. Even. And so I ended up going to the doctor and getting that done.

Matt Cox treats his girlfriend's body as a canvas he can paint or twist to fit his fantasies. Fucker. He does the same with his own appearance. When we left, he got obsessed with, the way he looked and how his physique was and stuff like that. I mean, he hardly ever ate. He had a nose job done.

Life went down under here. He had it done on his side. So he had, yeah, he had a lot of surgeries. All of it, of course, is paid with money stolen from his victims. I don't know what would motivate someone to do that. Greed is the first thing that you think of. But there was more than greed. I think there was a big dose of ego involved in this crime for this particular individual.

It was the rush. It was, you know, the thrill of the chase. And he thought he could get away with it forever. But at that point, I really did. I thought, they'll never catch me. When American Greed returns, way off on that. See how the law catches up with Cox.

I'm freaking out. And how Cox escapes. Cheating up. What are you going to call this? What should we call it? I don't know. Got any ideas? Something American Greed.

You got to do something with American Greed. The actual, the American Greed episode. Yeah. Something. Narrated by yours truly, Matthew Peacock. Secret Service Special Agent Andrea Peacock is on the tail of Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawke. Two of the most wanted financial fugitives. But the Secret Service is never sure where they are or what names they're using.

It was impossible to predict what identity he would use next. Cox has as many as 50 aliases. They have all of them. Philip Daniel Morgan Corbin Blair Thomas Matthew Bevan Cox Gerald Scott Cugno Walter Andrew Hawke

Richard Paul Grohawke Jr. James Franklin Pake Did they do Joseph Carter? In the summer of 2004 I'd have a bunch of them Hawke pulled into Columbia, South Carolina where Bridget Brown

and her husband are trying to sell their home. This is a flyer that the realtor produced. to show our home when we were trying to sell it. It shows a quintessential suburban neighborhood and a little house on a pond. Try as they may, the home won't sell. It was a stressful time because I was traveling weekly

to Augusta already with my son for his surgical treatments. Their son Colby is sick and they need to move closer to care in Augusta, Georgia. I have no idea. The old house continues to sit unsold. I didn't know they had a sick son. until an article came out, a year later. A friend of ours recommended that we offer owner financing,

and said that that would make the home competitive and also open it up to people that previously could not have afforded a conventional loan. Just one week after the Browns offer owner financing, the phone rings. That night it was Gary Sullivan, or the man we thought was Gary Sullivan, that came and viewed the home. Matt Cox has a new alias. It was there. I never talked to her or the husband until the day of, we went to closing.

What happened was I had hired an attorney, I had hired a, a real, not hired, I got a realtor. Yeah. We went to a bunch of different properties. And I put, and properties that people were willing to owner finance. So I would walk in the property. I look around. I say, okay, great. What do they want for it?

$110,000, put $110,000 contract on it. And they go, okay. And I want them to owner finance it, 10% down. No problem. I leave. I put half a dozen contracts out. One of the, I got two houses. Got a house for 110,000, which I borrowed like 90, several,

I bought four or five loans for around $90, $95,000 on, like half a million, like $3,400,000 on one house. Their house was going for $224, $225. So I go in, I walk in, I look at the house, I go, great, how much they want, $220, let's say $225, $225, $225, $225, $225,000. I say, okay, great, put a contract in. I'll put 10% down. They go, okay, no problem. But they got to owner finance it.

No problem. So they call me back. Realtor calls back, hey, well, how's this going to work? I talked to the realtor for a little bit. Here, I'll do this, I'll do this. I'll do this. Put 10% down. He goes, okay, no problem.

He calls back and says they'll do it. It's a little bit longer dragged out. The phone calls a little bit longer. But whatever, within a few hours, like that night, like after I see the house, like that night or the next night, they're ready to sign a contract. I've never talked to him.

Okay. I don't know anything about any sick child. Nobody was there. She says, at one point, she says that, like, she was there when I walked in and Rebecca Halk walked in. But I had a male realtor that walked in with me, and no one was in the home. Nobody was there. So maybe she's misremembering it.

I don't know. Just like she said, I called her. I didn't call her. You had a realtor. You calling her a liar? I'm saying that's not what happened. I don't know what she's saying. I'm saying I talk to my realtor.

My realtor talked to their realtor. Their realtor at some point contacted me. I never talked. First of all, if you have a realtor, you don't talk to the buyer. The realtors are talking. That's what you're paying them for. You're not talking to them. I never talk to her until the day of the closing.

So then we have the day of the closing and I walk in. This part I do remember, because she said this a few times. I walk in. We all meet. Hi. one of the things they had wanted me to do was to write out all the like 18 months worth of checks or like a year's worth of checks so they could just deposit them and I had suggested that so I write all the checks out Jamie Fairbri Marcia whatever here and she says and as we're

talking I remember her saying she was joking around about we said something and when I was talking to her I had Envisaline in the braces yeah I said I'm sorry I I have these braces in and I like pop them out. And she goes, oh, you got to wear your teeth messed up. I go, oh, they're a little bit tweaked. I was trying to fix them up. I said, you know, I made a crack. I said, listen, when you're five foot six, I said, everything's got to be perfect.

I said the hair, the face, the teeth, the wardrobe, the bank account, everything. She starts laughing. And I remember her husband was like, he's like six foot tall. I go, I go, Mr. who was a doctor, Dr. Brown. I go, Dr. Brown wouldn't know anything about that. And she starts, she looked at him and laugh. And so. I write the checks and she says something about

when we give out the document like we give out our driver's license she says something about oh yeah something something yeah I had my identity stolen one time and I like looked at her like like what did you shit like fuck and I was like oh okay really

and she's like yeah I'm sitting there but I remember thinking just the idea that she had said it and she says in one of these interviews somewhere, maybe not this one, but one of them. She says he looked at me with this shocked look on his face, like when I mentioned that my identity been sold, something like that. Anyway, so we all signed the documents.

I give them my 10% down, which was like 25 grand. And I leave. I make a few payments. I satisfy the loan. I borrow like a million dollars or so on their house. I pull out the money. You know, I get caught in the bank. You know the whole thing.

a year and a half, about a year or later, Fortune Magazine comes out and it says that I stalked them because I knew that they had a sick child and they were desperate to sell the house. I didn't know you were desperate. I didn't know you had a sick child. I didn't know you.

I was driven around by a realtor. I put a contract out, a contract on the house. I borrowed the money. What I did was wrong. I absolutely went to prison for that. I am sorry for that. I owe them. She's going to say that I, like, stole $200,000 from them or something.

No, I didn't. You had a mortgage on the house for $201,000 is what you owed. Sold the house for $225. I put down $25,000. You owner financed $200,000. You had what's called a wraparound mortgage. You, I make payments to them. They make payments to their lender.

You didn't have any equity. You were getting money to pay your two. I owe you 200,000 in equity that you don't possess because the equity is actually held by the, by the lender. Right. So I'm paying you, you're paying the lender. You don't have any equity. You already owe you, you owe $200,000. Now I owe you to you.

So once you bounce, they just go back to paying their own mortgage. Right. So, well, they can foreclose. I, um, they can, oh, they still foreclose on you. They could foreclose on me and take that. They did foreclose took the house back and resold the house. Oh, shit. Okay.

But I do owe them about 10 grand because they, they hired an attorney to, because I, I, I, They encumberanced their title. So I absolutely owe them the $10,000. And they're on my restitution payment for $10,000. That's what I owe them. Okay. But here she says, oh, he took, I think she said I stole $200,000 from him or something. But you didn't have $200,000 in equity.

That's, it's just one of those things that's tweaked. Not that what I did wasn't wrong. Yeah. It's just one of those things that they, they just, a little bit here, just enough to make you a, you know, like I've said before, it's like me arguing the point is like saying, I didn't murder 10 people. I only murdered 7. Yeah.

It's okay, well, I'm still a scumbag. I'm not saying nobody's saying I'm not a scumbag. I'm just saying I didn't murder 10 people. I murdered 7. Which is why we're doing this. My bad. Gary Sullivan is actually a homeless person Cox met on a trip to Las Vegas.

That's true. Gary Sullivan was, you know, a $20 male prostitute. I hopped out and told him I was doing a survey for the Salvation Army. Army, paid 20 bucks. You could he answer 17. If you want the long version of this story, the first podcast that we did with Matt. You ought to put the little, man, fuck.

You ought to put the little things like when they're watching. Like watch it. You should do that throughout the whole thing. Like watch the whole story. Obviously people, if you haven't already watched the first podcast with Matt, that is the zinger. That's the one that has like one and a half million views. Yeah.

I figure what it's called. It was like number of 50s. 50 podcasts. No, it's like 40 something. Was it really? Yeah, it's 43 or something. And you know, the thing is, and look, hey, here's the thing, too. And that podcast is maybe 50% of the story.

I mean, the whole story, I write the whole fucking story. So you really know how I did this, what I did, the whole thing. Oh, it's number 40. Number 40? Podcast number 40 was the first one we did. That's where you told all of the story about going to Las Vegas. What the fuck? We're on like 56 now.

Are you still? You're buying me dinner. You gotta buy me. What are you talking about? Coronavirus going on around here. I'm not getting fucking COVID. Did you know that they canceled fucking the James Bond movie tomorrow? No.

James Bond. They're canceling movies at the movie theater? Fuck. It's ridiculous. You know how long I've waited to see this fucking movie? I love James Bond. Everything's fucking canceled, man. That's crazy.

It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. The NBA is canceled. They canceled all the NBA games. I'm not broken up about that. I don't watch sports. So, NBA is pretty big time. National basketball.

That's a big fucking deal. There's a lot of money in the NBA. Yeah, well, I'm starving. By the way. Yeah. Anyway. Questions. He said no problem.

This is a scam. Cox does again and again. He would take this form that he created, that he, you know, titled a federal statistical survey, tried to make it look from, you know, official form number in the small print. It has U.S. government printer office. And he'd ask for full name of birth. You know, their mother's maiden name, father's name. So security, had they ever been arrested?

Any kind of information that could affect him using that identity. When I was being interviewed by her and the U.S. attorney, they asked me where I got the form. And I went, what do you mean? They go, well, this is a government form. Where did you get it? And I went, did you download it? And I went, no, it's not a government for. They go, it says it's a government forum right here.

Like, like, angry. Every time I ever said anything that was true that they disagree with, they'd get angry. What? This says it right here. I was like, No, that's not, I made the form. I got the fucking, look, I got the logo here. I got the, and they were always like,

they really, I was, you know, I was so shocked. I was just like, but by the time you're done with the interview, you realize, you just don't know anything. Yeah. I thought, I really thought I was going to walk in and they had it all laid out and they knew everything. But they really don't. They, they know bits and pieces. So, but yeah, the, the, the,

The form was completely fabricated. Yeah. He gives the con man everything he needs to create a new identity. I ordered his Social Security card. I ordered everything. With his identity secured as Gary Sullivan, Cox learns about the Brown's home and moves in for the kill. He was very unassuming, very demure, kind of quiet. The con man cracks jokes at his own expense.

He talks about the braces he just had pulled. put on his teeth. And he said, when you're as short as I am, you don't have much to go with, so everything has to be perfect. The con man is so good, Bridget Brown feels sorry for him. And we knew from what we were told that he had a bad credit history. So I was concerned that, you know, he may be going into that situation again. Yet I wasn't thinking that this was a criminal mastermind that was really playing us.

I just thought this is a young man who's very insecure and and trying hard here. Even now I get upset for the fact that these people have worked all their lives. And we come in and just, you know, with the... And they want to believe you. Everybody wants to believe someone. They don't want them to think that, you know, you're going to cheat them out of their, you know, their life savings or whatever.

And that's what we did. It's not what happened. The Browns think they've closed the book on their housing crisis. They're wrong. A lender referred him to me for a closing. Mary Nell Degenhart is a real estate attorney in Columbia, South Carolina. A few days after representing Gary Sullivan at another closing, she talks to an abstractor, someone who researches a property's title.

She said, your mortgage is recorded in first position, but there's four or five right behind you within two days on the same property. I knew then what he had done, he had refinanced with several of the same. different attorneys and there's a lag time at the county so you would have never seen the mortgage until they hit all at once it's too late the mortgage checks you know how many times how many people in the guys in the uh comment section let's say like that's not possible you can't do that the banks that but that's a title that's a title person right there just told you that that's very possible million dollars on a two hundred thousand dollar house one point two

two houses that's their house and another house their house i didn't get one point two i got like 400 i got like 900 000 or something like on theirs and i got like 400 000 another because the total was like 1.3 million right but it was two different houses oh okay i mean it's just one of those things like they decided they they must have said oh look we'll fucking add it together we'll just add it together we'll just stretch that we'll stretch that truth too complicated okay let's just fine still it's more attaining that's fine The banks in town. Immediately, I believe Wachovia was the one that put a fraud alert out through the system. It was bad, bro.

On March 4, 2005, Gary Sullivan strolled into a Wachovia bank in Columbia, South Carolina, to withdraw money. The bank teller sees that a fraud alert has been issued on this name. I thought you had plastic surgery down at this point, no? No, I hadn't done the hair, the hair yet. But you had the nose job? No? No? No, I hadn't had it done yet. Oh, okay. I thought you did. In minutes, deputy sheriffs arrived and ask Gary Sullivan to come downtown.

Yeah, I think I had the nose job. I'm freaking out. So then I go and the investigator shows up and he's arguing with the guy from Wachovia and we're arguing back and forth. Yeah, I had it done by it. Except for the hair. Nothing illegal about taking out multiple loans on the same house. I remember this story from podcast number 40. Yeah, yeah, yeah, from podcast number 40.

Also in the book. You got to buy the book. Can Matt Cox talk his way out this time? For more information and web exclusives on the crimes of Matt Cox, go to Americangreed.c.c.com. Ask that. Go to insidetruecrime.com. Yeah, fuck that.

Fuckers. How much more time? I'm going to just got to be over all that. Jesus. Matt Cox, the financial fugitive, is stopped at a bank in Columbia, South Carolina. He was at the teller, and the cops came in and handcuffed him and said, come with me, and he was like, oh, crap.

I'm fleaking out. Cox goes downtown to the Sheriff's Department. They let him drive his car, and that's when he called me. He goes, this is bad. He's like, they're here. They picked me up. At this point, they don't know he's Matthew Cox. They think he's Gary Sullivan, the homeless person. Cox steals the identity of a street person.

and takes out one point... This is where she says, I'm not bailing you out. Fuck you. She said, well, not. She said, well, no. She's like, better not get arrested. Like, fuck. $2 million worth of loans on a house worth about $200,000.

At the bank, Cox is trying to withdraw some of his fraudulent proceeds. So they took him into a room, and he talked his way out of it. He told the guy, I have a second and third on my home. That's illegal. I convince him that there's nothing illegal about taking out multiple loans on the same house. When the Richland County Sheriff's Department runs a criminal history for Gary Sullivan, they see no warrants for his arrest. The local police at this point usually wouldn't make an immediate arrest unless someone was wanted.

And of course, they ran the identity that Cox was using, but that person was not wanted. Gary Sullivan was not wanted. The police in Columbia had him. dead to rights, but they didn't have the paperwork and they weren't certain who they were dealing with. And he talked his way out of the situation and was gone. In Columbia, Bridget Brown gets a... I need that fucker on a podcast to give his side of the story. Call from the Secret Service.

She and her husband go back to their home. I've talked to him a few times. Gary Sullivan, of course, is long gone. On the kitchen countertop was a fax machine. On it was just tons of... filling out of mortgage applications for home equity laws. These were just some examples of the infamous loan applications that we found in our house. That's actually a closing statement.

He had forged our names and said that he had paid us off and wanted to take the money and run in essence. The Browns now have seven mortgages on their home. It will take them more than a year to clear the title. Cox and Hawk take their wife. 1.2 million and flee to Houston. But life is Bonnie and Clyde is losing its appeal. We used to fight all the time.

We used to scream and yell at each other all time. It was like hell being with her. And after we left, she blamed everything on me. What have I done? Why have I left? Look how dramatic these camera angles are. Can you appreciate this B-roll? They went out of their way to go to a motel room,

fuck it all up, insane camera angles. And we didn't live in a home. You know, I was in Houston for less than 24 hours. She had moved there first. She rented a place in a post apartment's like fucking way up on like the 20th floor or something. I mean, he had an amazing apartment. Penhouse.

In, not a penthouse, but whatever. It was up there. In Houston, I went there. Right after I got caught, we get into this huge fucking argument. She gives me $100,000 out of like $6,000. $600,000, she gives me like 100 grand. I take the fucking $100,000 I take off. I go back to Charlotte to pick up my car,

Charlotte, North Carolina. That's where I almost get grabbed by the fucking U.S. Marshal's. Remember I told you that's at the Starbucks. Yeah. But yeah, so I was never, I was there for, it may sound like we hung out there, so I didn't hang out there. And on top of that, all this B-roll is bullshit.

That's not the fuck, that's their hotel room. It sells it, man. It really does sell. It makes good for good TV. It's pretty fucking terrible B-roll, though. But I guess this was without. fucking Yeah, well, they weren't

sophisticated like you are. Well, I'm not sophisticated. I guess the style has just changed. Yeah. There's probably, you have better be well. So why, if she had 600 grand,

why would you even accept only taking a hundred grand and giving her a half a million dollars? Man, she fucking, she was, because she had a, one, she was like,

if you, like, she didn't want to give me anything, but she wanted to give me like 10 grand. So I'm arguing and she finally said, look, I'll give you $100,000. I was saying split the money. She's saying 10 grand.

I can't believe in you, I can't believe you even accept, because she's saying, about accepting half. Here's what she's saying. She's saying that if I don't, we don't, we have to, you are going to be okay with this because if you, because I was saying, look, I'll take all the fucking money if you don't split it. You'll, you'll have nothing. She goes, and where are you going to go with that? She was, you're using a driver's license that they already know who they're looking for this guy.

Gary Sullivan was all the driver's license. I only, one I had. They're like, you got, oh, I had a Michael Eckert one too. So they know who Michael Eckert is by now, too. They're like, you're driving a rider truck in the name of a guy that they're going to be looking for. Because if you take all the money, I'll call the police and they'll be looking for that rider truck in his name. How many miles? 500,000 miles away from, or a couple thousand miles away from Charlotte, North Carolina.

I've got to go back there to get my car, which is also in the name of a guy they're looking for. But at least it's not the rider truck. Oh, you know, all my fake IDs? When I drove the rider truck there to move my apartment there, all of my stuff, because we lived in two separate houses at this point. She had her own fucking apartment. I had my own apartment. She had moved her apartment to Houston.

So now I'm packing up my stuff and moving it. We put all my stuff in a storage unit along with my IDs. So I couldn't even go and say, fuck you, and grab all my IDs that I had collected. They're in her storage unit. So I'm just fucked I've got two IDs with me that they're looking for And a rider truck So we're arguing and I'm saying

I'll take all the money And she's saying and what? Where are you going to go? In the rider truck they're looking for Even if you have all the fucking money She's like I'll make one call Here's the thing If I was this brutal, angry

manipulative guy I'd have just beaten her ass or something Or choked her to death Or something Instead I'm sitting there like practically begging her. You gotta give me something. I can't leave with 10 grand.

What am I going to? But she did have a powerful argument, which was this. She said, look, I can't do what you do. You'll take the 100,000, you'll turn it into a couple million. Very quickly.

I'm going to have to live off this money for the rest of my life. And she was right. She wasn't, she wasn't, she's not a con, she's not a grifter, she's not going to be able to survive. I didn't think she'd be able to go very long at all.

I was amazed she would last. a year. And I remember thinking, she's right, I'll take the money, I'll make a bunch more money. And I did very quickly. I had a few million dollars, very quickly. Makes sense. So I just grabbed the money and left. My biggest problem is I'm driving, I got no ID. I cannot get pulled

over. Yeah. I do this. Oh my gosh. What a while I left my son. Rebecca hasn't seen her son in more than a year. That's not true. That's fucked up. That's not true. Why? Because when we went to Vegas, we saw her son. Really? We stopped. We gave her son money.

We gave her fucking parents money. We gave her ex-husband money. We gave everybody money. And by the way, when they catch her, she didn't give them all the money. She got a whole bunch of money. She told me that she had fucking money. She had left the money with the guy she was fucking banging.

She told me all the, she told me what really happened. So I'm like, damn. Oh, she fucking, she did pretty good. Anyway, but yeah, she had seen her son. We went there and she saw her son like, I like hung out and she saw her son

for like half a day like six or seven hours then she called me I picked her up then we bought a bunch of fucking presents and gifts she left him money she left the husband

I actually gave the ex-husband money I actually met him at his job 30 grand yeah she gave her family money she gave her her son was actually staying with her mother

like we were just happened to drive by her mom so how would you give the ex-husband 30 grand because you know he's taking care of the kid she's not like she's paying the mother was taking care of the kid

you just said she was taking care of the kid you just said She was, the kid was staying with her mom. For the weekend, bro. They all lived like, like, a, he was living with him. No, like a couple miles. He was staying at the grandmother's house for the weekend. Oh, okay.

So we happened to, she's like, oh, let's drive by my mom's house. And as we're driving by the mother's house, she's like, holy she's like, oh, my God, there's Bryce. He's playing in the front yard. And I was like, fuck, you wanted to see him. I go, do you want to stop here? Because we were going to go by the husband's house to see him. To see him. Because I'd already dropped off money at the husbands.

So I was like, and I told the. husband, he gave me his phone number and everything. And I was going to, we were going to set up a time. And I was like, fuck, if you want to see Bryce, you do it right now. This guy's not getting off work for like, fucking six or eight hours. We do it right now. And she's like, I go, it's perfect because nobody expects it. He's there.

So I pull over. I let her out. She walks in. She calls me and says, I'm good. You can go. I go down the street. I hang out for like five or six hours until eventually she calls me. He calls me every like hour or so.

Eventually, she calls me and says, okay, I'm ready. I go by. I pick her up. Then we end up meeting. the husband again, we give him a bunch of, we buy a bunch of toys and every, I mean, you know, look, it's a shitty thing, but it's like the least you can do, like her son's like, look, I want this, I want this, I want this, and we go when we spend a couple grand and buy them all these toys and all this stuff he wants.

Come back, we drop it off with the fucking husband, with the ex-husband, you know, I mean, it's a shitty situation, but the whole, I hadn't seen my son and this, that's not true. So sad. Sadden a lie. Sadden alive. And then there's the pressure from the secret service. Cox Googles himself constantly. He knows the Secret Service is working with the media to get their faces in front of as many people as possible.

Rebecca Hawke can't stand the heat. We were on TV, this U.S. Secret Service was doing a press conference about us. They had done our pictures, a warrant pictures, and I just freaked out. I'm like, no, we got to leave. We have to leave. This is, you know, we're too close. They're going to find us. We've got to go. She was definitely going to get us caught. I mean, that's where I was thinking.

She was having a meltdown. I mean, she really was melting down. She was coming apart. One morning in March of 2005, Rebecca takes a shower. Not true. 24 hours I was there. We had an argument. He had an opportunity to steal away.

He takes all the cash but leaves behind all his cell phones. That's true. Any way that I could got a hold of him, he left. And I was just like, what? And so I've expected, okay, he's going to come back. He's just mad. He's going to come back. And, well, he never came back.

She says you took all the money. Keep in mind, look, that is basically, see how it's that slob, whatever's going on there? That's basically how she lived. Wow, that did a good job. So that was actually a good B-roll. Shout out to the B-roll team at NBC. So, first of all, she didn't get a job for a year. So if you didn't get a job for a year,

how did you live if I took all the money? Had 500 grand, bitch. Yeah, you had 500 grand. So, one, you did keep the money. Also, she had bought a brand new car and a motorcycle. She's paid in full for beauty school. So she's going to beauty school because she realizes after a few months he ain't coming back. So she says, okay, she does the beauty school thing.

So how did you do all of that with no money? I mean, it doesn't even make sense. But see, like, American, they don't even question that. No, of course not. And I, and the Secret Service agent, Adrian Peacock, she told me, she's like, no, I mean, we, we know you left her with money. Because I was like, I left her with money, and I don't have any fucking, fucking, fucking, you mean money? Yeah. Fucking, she had money, and they're like, no, we know she had money.

They're like, look, she had like 30 grand in the bank. The car's paid for, motorcycles paid for. She's got jewelry. She's been paying fucking, like, $2,000 or something like that. rent every month. This is fucking 15 years ago. So they're like, trust me, we know she's got money. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah, total fucking bullshit. Weeks turn into months. And Rebecca tries to go straight.

She makes up a new name, Rebecca Sue Hickey, and goes to work as a cocktail waitress. But someone recognizes her face. We got a phone call based on our wanted poster that this person, believed that she was using the name Rebecca Hickey. Rebecca Hawk is arrested in Houston while attending class at a cosmetology school. There were about five U.S. Marshals that came in to class and I was just like, oh man, and I thought they're here for me. The Secret Service hopes Rebecca can answer their most depressing question.

Where is Matt Cox? She hasn't seen him or talked to him in a year. Cox is still on the run. Now he's in Nashville with a new girl and a new real estate company. Single mother. Maybe it's karma catching up with him. But the con man is about to become a victim when American greed returns. You can't get away with that forever.

You're going to get caught. Is that the actual lady? I've actually known. That police officer, like I've seen her on the show and I've seen quotes from her and stuff. I don't remember talking to her. I think she may have been the person that called me to say, hey, can you meet us at the house? But I don't ever, I remember interacting with her.

In Nashville, Matt Cox is living it up. While his old girlfriends get used to prison stripes, Rebecca Hawke has been arrested by the Secret Service, and Allison Arnold is in prison. Gail McKenzie is the federal prosecutor in charge of the case. There was absolutely no regard for the over 100 victims that he left behind. His girlfriend slash accomplices, he knew they had gone to jail. He'd just moved on with more and more fraud.

In Nashville, Cox forms yet another fraudulent shell company, steals the identity of another homeless person, and starts dating yet another pretty young woman, a single mom, of course. Fucking dickhead. She and Cox go on a whirlwind trip to Venice. And then Greece. Paid for, of course, with stolen money. Made possible by Cox's stash of fake IDs.

You and I can't even get on a plane without somebody looking at us anymore. Matt Cox, you know, at the top of the most wondered list, was able to create an ID that passed muster for him to get out of the country and back in. Maybe Cox has tempted fate once too often. Maybe it's karma catching up with him. But one night, he's back in Nashville relaxing at home with his girlfriend when two armed intruders break through his front door.

Officer Cassandra Del Bosco responds. And Cox shows her a video taken from his security camera. You could actually see one lift his foot up and kick in the door. And one of them's holding him that gun. point and then you see him getting all their property and and you see coxas he's kind of mad he's not really scared he's mad i was terrified the thieves get away with the girl terrified fuck yeah two fucking got two of what oh that you're talking about when the guys were actually

robbing you kicked in my front fucking door with with fucking guns screaming get on the fucking ground and everything i'm like fuck all i can think about was what the fuck do you guys want how do i get rid of these motherfuckers i thought they were going to fucking you know I actually didn't. I think she said that she said you were mad when you were kind of explaining it to them or showing the footage of what happened. No, I'm sure. I think I was mad during the foot.

I was definitely, I probably looked mad. Yeah. But I was scared. Okay. You know, you know, what the fuck? You know, but I just look mad. I'm sure. But trust me, fucking pure tear.

Arm, jewelry, and $6,000 in cash. Cox files a police report under his alias. Joseph Carter. And we did run his DL. It was a valid Tennessee. driver's license with this picture on it we had no reason to believe it wasn't him that's not the idea around the same time the secret service gets a tip from a woman in nashville she's seen the most wanted poster trina thinks cox is living in her neighborhood no tipster wait trina

trina trina who's trina trina is a chick that Amanda and i my girlfriend the single mother we're seeing Remember? I remember. The first podcast, 40. Yeah, I remember now, Trina. It's been a while. Yeah. Yeah, it has.

So, Trina, Amanda told Trina, Trina calls and turns me in. Fuck. That's, her mother was, they always say the baby, a babysitter turned him. The babysitter's mother, or Trina's mother was the babysitter.

She's the one that called. It's just stupid. It was Trina. Describes to a team. Secret Service then gets in position to make the big arrest, and he's no longer there. Gone once again. This time, we were within two days of him.

I can't tell you what a tremendous letdown that was. The day after, Officer Del Bosco gets a page. And I looked down on my computer, and I noticed that the Secret Service had just sent out an email, please stay out of the area. We're looking for a fugitive. And I looked at the address, and I thought, Hold up a second. We just had a home invasion there two days ago, and I talked to this supposed fugitive that they're looking for.

Working with the Secret Service, the Nashville police create a ruse. They ask Cox to meet them for a follow-up report about the home invasion. Cox is so confident in his ability to fool everyone, but he falls right into the trap. The Secret Service is waiting. Yes. Hey, Matthew, how you doing? Because you are Matthew Cox, aren't you?

And I went, yeah, Matthew Cox. And I mean, I remember my knees went weak. Just because I hadn't hurt my name out loud in so long. After three years on the run, Matt Cox has finally stopped. He's taken a total of $12 million from banks and private lenders. And he's left behind more than 100 victims. Once in custody, he begins to talk freely to the state. Secret Service.

He was very forthcoming in what he had done, but he was trying to sell to us, just like he had tried to sell to others, that there really are no victims. That's what he wanted us to believe that the, you know, the title insurance companies, that's what they're there for, you know, insurance companies pay policy, so really no one is hurt. Bridget Brown and her husband were conned by Cox at a time when they were caring for a sick child was constantly in and out of the hospital. Certainly in our case, a young family going through some stressful times, and he was aware of that.

You know, we mentioned that getting to the closing was difficult for us because we had to find appropriate medical care. Never talked to her until the closing. Yeah, I think it was a pretty poor argument to say that this was a victimless crime. Never said it was a victimless crime either. On April 10, 2007, Matthew Bevan Cox pleads guilty to bank fraud, mortgage fraud. Damn, I do. They even got the short guy. What the fuck? No, that's me. Is that actually you?

I thought that was B-roll. No! That's from the interview with Dateline. That's the interview with Dateline. Oh, I thought it was B-Roll. The identity theft. He is later sentenced to 26 years in federal... No, I got to watch that again.

An identity theft. He is later sentenced to 26 years in federal prison. This fellow got what he deserved. He got a very stiff... Senate's in federal prison and because there's no parole in the federal system anymore, he's going to spend a couple of decades plus. You're fucking wrong about that, bro. I won't fucking do 26 fucking years for some for some fucking money? I mean, look, no offense. I'm not saying I shouldn't have done some time, but 26 fucking years? Are you fucking crazy? That's insane. That's an insane amount of fucking time. Yeah, it depends on who you ask, I guess.

Well, I mean, clearly. To people who might otherwise be inclined to commit this type of crime. Rebecca Hawk is sentenced to six years in prison. But she will be eligible for release in 2009. Matt Cox's story has one more mystery. Five million dollars of his loot is still missing. Leaving the feds wondering, where's the money? Six million.

Where's the money, Matt? Six million. Where's it buried? Yeah, it's, uh... What do you mean? There's no money, bro. There's no money. There's no money.

There's no money. It, you know, it hurts when you talk to me like that. I have feelings to me. I think the possibilities are limitless as to where he could have put the money. Cox's former girlfriends believe he may have an offshore account. If he does, it will be a long time before he's sipping margaritas on a beach. Matt Cox's projected release date is 2009. Here we are in 2020.

Where's the fucking money, Matt? Listen, Cayman Islands? I've never been to Cayman Islands. There's a lot of banks over there. There are. You know that when I was being interviewed by the Secret Service, they were like, they were saying, because when Amanda and I went to,

went to Italy I had I had like a cap fall off right and so I needed to go to a dentist so I left I was like look while you guys go do this

and we were in Bari and I said while you guys go shopping I'm going to go to a dentist so I go to a dentist and I have them they like glue the fucking thing back on right so when I get picked up

the Secret Service is like listen you know I'm like oh what are you talking I don't know, there's no money. She was like, you were in, you had multiple passports. You were in Bari. And Amanda told us that you left for like four or five hours. You could have easily opened up multiple bank accounts and put the money away in cashier's checks or whatever.

And I was like, first of all, there would be bank accounts that were being opened by Americans. The U.S. would be notified that you had a bank account in another country. So, you know, I was like, and then they were like, well, you could, for all we know, you've got, you've got IDs and other people's names outside of the country. So for all we, I'm like, listen, stop. If you were smart, you would have. Yeah, if I was smart, but I'm not that smart. Everybody thinks I'm so sharp, I'm not. You did a good job convincing me.

Good times. Okay, this was good. This was great. Thank you for doing this. And thank you. I'm sure I'm speaking for millions. of people on YouTube too. I'm sure they're all extremely

entertained by this episode. They've been looking for it for a long time. Yeah, I don't know. What about the Dateline one? Oh, we should do that one next. Yeah, but you gotta get... I've never even seen the Dayline one. You know what...

Listen, it's twice as bad as this one. Is it really? It's fucking horror. Is that one on YouTube? Because they actually interview me. Oh, shit. Let's see. Is it on...

We'll find it. We'll do it. We'll do it. Oh, no. It's not... Oh, no, it's nowhere. It's nowhere. It's not.

Everybody's. Listen, I got an army of guys in the comment section who have scoured the internet. They would, if you could find it, they'd have found it. Yeah. But to get this, I had to get American Greed. I had to, because it was on Hulu initially when I first got out. Then they took like the whole season down. And so I had to contact, is it NBC?

I have no clue. I had to contact the producers of whatever. So you have it. What? No, for American Greed. No. You have the Dateline episode? No.

I'm saying I had to contact them. They wanted me to give them like $1,200, $1,200 or something first. Then they came back and I was like, no, no, you don't understand. I'm the guy. They're like to license it to you. It's this much. Plus every time I was like, license it. Bro, I said, I'm the guy in the episode.

So then they come back and they go, okay, well, we'll sell you one for $400 or $300. I was like, what are you talking about? Just like you. Well, then I explain that, listen, you've already given me a copy. before. I have a copy. They had given me one and my mother had it and she's lost it and I did this whole fucking thing that you gave me one. I had a courtesy

copy. My mother moved. She lost the copy. I just asking you to replace it. I already have it. You've already given it to me for free. So then they came back and they said, okay, here's what we'll do. We'll post it and you can, we'll give you the download. So they downloaded and gave it to me. And that was it. But so somebody needs to do that for

Dateline. Because there's actually two datelines. One where I'm not interviewed. They just interview Becky, you can imagine how that one comes off. Then there's a second one where they interview me, still horrible. Where this guy, the same guy that did this, same narrator.

Same dude, huh? Same dude. Because it's called Curtis Productions. He did, they did both of. So, yeah, man, it was horrible too. Anyway, this was good. Thank you Matt. Yeah, all right. Well, wait, wait, wait, we got to plug the book. Oh, plug the book one more time. Listen, bro, buy the fucking book. It's a pretty

good book. Okay. And, and, And the YouTube channel. Yeah, what's your YouTube channel? It's called Inside True Crime, and it's got about seven or eight of my stories, plus some supplementary material on there, and audiobooks, some of the stories I've written. And then also I have a website,

inside truecrime.com. And... Patreon. Patreon. I got Patreon. And what else? There's other stuff. There's Instagram and all the other junk.

Yeah. Yeah. You're on all the typical platforms. Yeah, I'm trying to figure it. out. Hey, do you know who Bubba the Love Sponge is? Yeah. He's like one of the most famous radio shock jock DJ whatever hosts in Tampa Bay. Talk to a guy that like represents him today and he's supposed to try and hook it up so that I go on bubble a lot. He's on, um, Twitch. Twitch. He's on Twitch. I forget how many million subscribers or whatever. He's got a bunch. I mean, I grew up when I grew up when I was

in Tampa. Yeah. Bubble Love Spum was huge. So when the guy said Bubba the Love Spunge, I was like, the fuck out. He was like, do you know who that is? I was like, the fuck it. I mean, Of course I know. Who doesn't know who Bob of the Love Sponge is? And he was like, look, would you be interested? I was like, fuck, yeah. That would be sick. Be awesome, bro.

Yeah, he's on Twitch now. He was hilarious. He's, I love, I fucking listen to him all the time. I mean, yeah, that would be great. So maybe that'll have. Wow, wow. That was his deal. We'll see.

What do you do? He, uh, he, did he kill a pig on the radio? What do you do? He fucking, bro, I was, I think I was, I've been out of business. I think they slaughtered a pig on, on, on like, live radio. And that's one of the, the reasons a lot of people didn't like him. He got a lot of heat for that.

He did a lot of fucked up shit like he had. He was kind of like the Stern, the Howard Stern of the South. Right, right. Stern was in New York and he was in Florida. He's still good friends with Howard Stern. He still talks to him on his show, I think. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be, uh, Howard Stern would be pretty cool.

That'd be pretty cool to be on. Yeah. I told you, but I tell you, uh, the Wolfston, uh, with a, uh, Belfort guy. Belford. Yeah, yeah. So his, uh, yeah, that's good. That's, you're hitting all the, all the right.

I mean, I'm trying. I'm trying. I don't know yet. I haven't got a call back. I got a couple emails, a couple emails from his assistant, but, you know, I haven't heard the fly out here, bro. Those guys. That's what I am. That would be great.

You're good content for them. So we're wrapping. I picked you out of the dirt. You did. I emailed you. How does this turn? Listen, you're great at this. You're going to be right in these fucking American Greeks and you're tweaking it slowly.

I'm not really I emailed you and then you you con me yeah I remember when you said you were like you were like I was like hey you know I'm thinking about doing a true crime podcast

and you go well you know the best way to gauge whether people would be interested in or not or not is for you to come on my show and tell your story was I right or was I wrong this motherfucker's trying to get me to fucking come on on a story I thought

and you're like because then you know you go then if we were to do the you know then we'll know and then we could talk about doing a true crime podcast and so I did it and now you're like yeah I just don't know I just don't see any interest there now you're like where you are now I'm so busy look where you are now now you're too busy for me Matt Cox unbelievable I try to get you an episode of my floor show and you said you told me to get lost I never it's not what I said it's not what I said we're trying to do a

day in the life documentary of Matt Cox listen I'm painting of the painting of the joker right now I know you told me we should be filming that That's pretty cool stuff. It is pretty cool. The Joker's pretty cool. Everyone wants to see a day in the life of Matt Cox outside of the studio. Bro, listen, it starts at like 4.30 or 5 in the morning. Yeah, let's do it.

I get a couple of, you know. A couple of, uh, couple of raw sugars. Fucking. Mainline, a couple packets of raw sugars. I hit the gym, you know, because I'm 50. I'm falling apart. Run five miles. We go to my buddy, my buddies gym.

Let's do it. Calta. Yeah. Then I come home. I either go to my mom's house and I have breakfast with my mom. That'd be sick. Can we film that?

You have breakfast with your mom? No. She's so old. I know, but it'd be great. It'd be great content for everybody. She's 90. She's 90 and she picks at me. That would be so much fun to film that.

And people would love it. She does. It's always the same thing. Oh, you don't shave anymore? No, mom, I shave. Well, you didn't shave today? We do the follow up to the to the American Green.

You don't have any collared shirts? No, I have them, Mom. I just didn't wear one. You don't ever wear them. All right, cool. Let's do it. Thanks again for doing this, and that's a wrap, ladies and gentlemen. All right.

Have a nice night, everybody. See you.