Danny Jones Podcast - #416 - #1 Most Controversial Trainer Destroys Everything We Know About Fitness | Ido Portal

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Ido Portal is the world’s foremost expert on human movement. Ido has spent a lifetime studying, combining and evolving elements from an enormous range of martial arts, dance genres, athletic endeavors and science to develop a unified theory and practice of movement called “The Ido Portal Method.” https://www.idoportal.com SPONSORS https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://www.instagram.com/portal.ido https://www.idoportal.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - The millionaire athlete approach to wellness 04:47 - Freshness & removing the mask of athletes 08:29 - Downside of "flow state" 17:43 - "World champions are robots" 22:06 - Become a practitioner 28:17 - You need to de-ambition yourself 30:41 - Why Ido makes Christian McCaffrey read & do math 38:36 - The spiritual journey of pro athletes 41:43 - Daily strength & conditioning practices 47:17 - Peripheral vision training 55:58 - Genetic ability vs. trained ability 01:04:22 - Doing what you suck at 01:13:27 - The state of mind of a practitioner 01:17:01 - Breathwork is oversimplified 01:25:57 - Movement design for Bollywood movies 01:28:34 - Indonesian "trance states" without drugs 01:35:44 - Psychological effects of desert training 01:38:02 - The Yoga lie 01:40:40 - Surfing vs. skateboarding vs. sports 01:45:59 - Why you shouldn't stretch 01:53:05 - The power of self-observation 02:01:34 - The active hanging challenge 02:06:31 - PEDs & the Enhanced Games 02:13:25 - Ido's view on supplements 02:16:31 - Suffering consciously 02:21:11 - Meditation has been distorted Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thanks for coming, Ido. Thank you. And shout out to Encema for hooking us up. I watched your podcast with Encema and Mark Bell. Very fascinating stuff. And I remember the first time I saw you was when you were doing some of that workout stuff with Connor McGregor way back in the day. And, you know, it looked like you guys were doing some sort of voodoo sorcery in the park. I wasn't sure what I was watching.

But now you're doing work with Christian. McCaffrey and like lots of big, you know, athletes and stuff like that. So what is it about you or your practice that people like Christian McCaffrey are looking to gain from or learn? First, thank you for having me. My pleasure. Yeah. It's, I think we've isolated components, category. separate more and more and more in an attempt to improve things so we've

created these very tiny little worlds within bigger universes that are supposed to replace or give solutions for movement problems health issues performance issues so one of those is like the world of strength and conditioning or a concept like flexibility. These are little isolated components. And often, when you take them, 1 plus 1 plus 1,

equal 17. You actually discover that there is a lot of other stuff that comes into the picture. So there were always voices that tried to use a different approach. Not an approach based on knowing, but approach is a, approaches that are based on not knowing and try to address those X quantities, those

unknown components, unknown aspects. It requires of course a different set of eyes, different types of tools and they are less easily perceived from the outside. It's not clear, what are you doing? What is it? What is it? What is it? Is that voodoo by your work? What is that? What is that? A rain dance. Yeah.

But it works with the same approach, specific adaptation to the imposed demand. Only how to create that scenario that addresses the real needs there. How can I make the mind change its organization? How can I address connective tissue? How can I work on rhythmicality? People are mentioning those things. Or people shout, relax. You know, you watch some skateboarder or someone performing and they shout relax,

but there are no real tools or smart tools to achieve that. And that is part of the work and part of the, part of the tools that I try to offer. How did this all begin for you? Like, how did you become who you are today? Was there certain things that happened, like, in your early life that led you to this? Like, most people that I've met who are, you know, on the cutting edge of something that's, you know, maybe not mainstream, but could be very beneficial.

or like it seems like just to me like my ignorant perspective on everything is that like this is a very sort of extremely fringe type of working out exercise movement all this stuff right for someone who's not initiated at least and whenever I've met people like that it's something something like huge has happened in their life whether it be an injit some sort of catastrophic injure or something that's really like had a dramatic perspective change for them that led them to it. Did anything like that ever happen for you? I guess so in some ways,

but I'll also offer another possibility. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a catastrophic thing, but there is a moment of freshness. Freshness, when you get an, a new flavor when something comes in and all of a sudden not something that is on the map not a gradual understanding but a critical mess a phase shift a jump so for me maybe it was a combination of those things the first thing was maybe some events in childhood or or some orientations but then mostly what i see is these moments of aha that

that leap that jump that occurs because certain aspects align in your life a certain readiness is there and a certain openness all three come together the openness is a critical component as you understand why we keep doing at trying to improve things through the same tools all the time. Yeah, it's not, I'm not one to abandon good tools. So the fringe side of things is what made me popular or what, why maybe I'm here,

but you'd be surprised that I still use a lot of very simple old school trusted methods. But also the other side, which of course gained popularity is, how can we scratch that each when it's so deep in the system when I can't on the surface place my finger on it and I want to address in the person, in the mover, in the athlete, inside, deep inside those layers

because the athlete layer is just, it's supported by the mover as a general mover. And then underneath there is even wider, that person and underneath they're even deeper things yeah beyond the personality beyond the mask beyond all these constructs so you mean like their inner psyche maybe those are words that you can use for it but maybe maybe underneath even the psyche underneath the the organization yeah you know the word personality originates from the the word mask persona it is a mask so that organization is not the deepest layer yeah and there is

always been attempts to to go underneath so may perhaps another word for it and there are many many different words right that to try or maybe a word that i really like is essence because it doesn't try to hit something and and to pin it down a soul a spirit and In Hebrew we use the word wind, which is also used in Tibet by the Tibetans. So an inner wind, right? The soul is one thing, but then we have this inner wind thing. So in order to reach deep into those places, which are sometimes the limiting factors, you need scenarios, you need different set of topics.

You need aha moments. You need clicking things. Those aha moments. Those are what you get in flow states, right? Would you consider that what you experience when you're in a flow state? When you have that aha moment, when sort of like training and preparation and discipline meets up with proper execution and everything just seems to click, like that's what people feel like when there's no effort. It's just like you're in the zone.

I'm not a big fan of the flow state. I know it's a popular thing. Yeah, yeah. Too commercialized? No, sometimes, you know, good things are commercialized for a good reason. And I don't want to push to push back against it from the wrong reasons. But I think it is a part of something, a part of a more a deeper and even more powerful state because the flow state oftentimes become immersive

which sounds like a good thing right but actually it has also some serious um downside how so this immersive thing automizes something it makes things automatic mechanicalized and that's why they work they're instinctive, they're reactionary. I train the body until the body cannot go wrong. Not until the body goes right, until the body cannot go wrong. I've used this in the past. I want the body to be able to go wrong. I want to maintain the choice.

I don't want to automise it completely. I don't want to remove myself. from the equation. I don't want to become immersed in the movie until I forget that I am here watching the movie. So I want to maintain a double arrow. One is that immersive arrow of flow, but another one on me.

In the watchful tower. And that goes deeper into the effects and kind of fuses effects in deeper layers in me, not only in my body, not only on the performance side of things. Interesting. Well, when I think about athletes, if I think about a football player or a basketball player, they want to be optimized for completing one very simple task, right?

Like for a basketball player, it's getting the ball in the hoop. And you hear stories about Michael Jordan going out and shooting a thousand different baskets from one spot on the court, trying to figure that out. And then doing it again from another spot on the court, right? And they wanna make that like an automatic flow type thing where there's no thought that's put into it.

It's just something that's baked into their mind and their body. So here they threw a bunch of stuff inside. Yes. But as the more time passes, the more we can improve and watch and see, oh wait, this doesn't be long. here wait for example everybody throws a thousand hoops on that level but steff is step it's not anymore about hard work hard work is the entry point come on everybody works if or you're not there yes from time to time you have someone so gifted that they even don't

work hard and they somehow reach up there but hard work is not enough and that takes us back to that thing you're not going to just automise it you're not just going to stand there and practice until the body cannot go wrong you got to change your presence who you are on the highest level when you really want to transform something you need to become a different person in order to do that and that is a very interesting moment for me especially when working with people because i am kind of in the business of assassination i am not there to support something i am there first to kill something that something else can be born right which is also the process that i try to apply with myself and i think it is the most beautiful process

because this current construct is also a glass ceiling. So in the practice, for example, of shooting those baskets, you can insert all kinds of elements to not just go through the motions, but to be there doing it in your watchful tower, every way, Rep. Like a, when you say in the watchful, do you mean like a third per, a third person type view of yourself doing it? It's one way to look at it.

It's definitely, I don't mean the commentary. Danny is now going down the ramp. That is just a distraction. And hence, you mentioned they shoot the hoops until they don't think the empty mind. Yes. But that empty mind is now a little bit more tricky, more complex, because sometimes the empty mind takes you off from that watchful tower, that listening mode. So even now when we're sitting together, you're fluctuating in and out of that watchful tower.

It's not a continuous thing. It comes, it goes, and you have good skill there. but I've seen much worse, let's say, right? It's funny in the business of podcasts where this is a very important skill for you guys, but often, and I recorded podcasts all over the world, the person is not skillful. It's based on something else, how they build their cathedral. Their cathedral. Yeah, you have good listening skills, but you can improve them.

And there are, so this fluctuation, this presence is not a commentary. And you cannot pull yourself now to the current moment by telling yourself, be here, or the shooting of the hoops will not be done in that way better. But there is a returning, a widening, almost like you're opening up your presence beyond your little limited view into the body and beyond into the room. and maybe beyond to contain the whole scenario, I am here going down the ramp. Not the words that I use, but the presence.

And you've had these moments, everybody had these moments, and that is something that has to be cultivated with the practice of shooting hoops, going down the ramps, playing football or whatever. And it's a quality that is not flow. flow alone. It contains flow, but it's more than that. It contains flow, but it's more than flow.

It's an awareness. You have to maintain the awareness of example. It's another state. We shouldn't call it flow, and it has the flow component of being absorbed in the task, absorbing it to the task, but without losing yourself. So it's also... But why is that better?

Because there, That is actually you. And anything else is some kind of a robot. Who drove here today, Danny? Right. Was it you? Do you remember the shifting of the gear? I don't remember anything about the drive, to be honest.

There you go. So it was not you. And this is the critical thing that we have to realize. If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube early, fully uncensored, and ad-free, but we're also doing Patreon-exclusive episodes as well as live Q&As, and you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge.

And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now back to the show. I've stood behind world champions. And I tell you, nobody. is home. Nobody's home. What do you mean nobody's home? It's a robot. Really? It's a robot. Doing those things, they cannot fail. They're so good that the robot have been trained not to fail. And then they can even report on it. They can talk about it. Nowadays everybody talks about AI. That's the AI. That's the that's the reason that, that's the reason,

why AI is AI because what created AI is the AI already to begin with. And we don't need to look far away. It's in the way of being. It can be verified by examining your life day in and day out. And hence, it brings me to what I do. Practice, praxis, this ancient word, practicum, is the most important thing we are here to do. There is nothing else. not for living? I feel way more enthusiastic and excited when I try to get out of my comfort

zone with anything, not just, not just workouts, right? Like for most of my young life, I didn't really do any sort of sophisticated training at all. I just did basic compound movements in the gym along with all of my physical activities that I constantly did, like surfing and skateboarding and stuff like that. It had no benefit. I never really learned about proper technique, proper movements, any sort of like muscle balancing or stretching or any kind of stuff like that. And then, but as I got older and I started to learn new things, I would, at one point, I would quit doing that kind of stuff and I would start doing a whole other routine or a whole, a whole another series of workouts every single week on a whole different schedule,

completely alien to what I used to do. And then recently, when I had Encema here, Encema showed me a whole bunch of new things that I had never seen nor practiced in my life. And when I abandoned everything else that I had been doing previously in my life and started doing all these new tricks that in Seema In Yang, for people that don't know who I'm talking about, he's on the Mark Bell podcast. He showed me all this other, this new stuff that I've never done before. I started doing that.

And it was like the feeling of just being a complete rookie at something and not really understanding what you're doing, but doing it anyway and pushing through it. There's something to that, like the novelty of it or the building of the whatever like neuroplasticity is happening in your brain. something about it is invigorating. I don't know what it is. But do you notice that? Is that something that you focus on and why you think that it's important to sort of be spread wide with everything you do?

It's one reason, but it's still as corrupted as any other reason. Because you're standing in a place trying to get something from, something from it. Right. Right. So it's it's not my game. That's that's that's not my thing. That's the way we think about it here in America. I know. I know I know. We need some dopamine. Well, you know we do. We do and we're going to get all those things in the back pocket as a side effect. Yeah. But it's not good to orient ourselves directly there. Right. To go to go immediately to that because some of those things are really side effects they are really side effects and we should appreciate them as such so all your report is great and i'm not going to take

it away with what i'm offering what i'm talking about but let me answer your question because that that wasn't so first i spend the majority of my life doing exactly what you described hence i tell people if you watch me practice in my day to day you wouldn't you wouldn't you would wouldn't be impressed. I've spent decades being the beginner and I've almost always abandoned things I'm good at. The moment I reached them I didn't have any more interest to repeat. I'm not repeating my skateboard tricks from 16 years old. I went I moved on. I can do one arm hands stands but I don't do them in the day to day because I can do them. Because the pleasure, the likes or the dislikes,

that's a game that I've seen where it goes and it doesn't go to pleasure as it is, you know? So here is the dopamine game, right? Like you want dopamine? So the worst thing is to get an easy dopamine. Right? Like you don't want that. So it's the same, but it goes deeper, deeper, deeper.

Then the other thing is, specialists, this narrow scoop that society is pushing towards, if you can really become good at something, you'll be rewarded, whether it's a successful podcast or a business or an athlete. But then as a person, you lose more and more. The more you go into that place. So that is the other reason.

It's a deeper reason to do what you offered, to engage in new ways of examining things and go out of your comfort zone, et cetera. And that is not coming from the corrupted place of receiving these rewards for it. If I become more wide, then I shall receive these rewards. Practice should not have a reason behind it. No reason. No. it is the default everything practices it's also known by many other words like the word evolution by

natural selection the word evolution is practice it is a way of becoming it is everything the planets become planets through practice everything practices it's a concept much deeper But for no, for no, no end goal. Correct. It's part of... It is something to recognize that is happening through us as well. Our cells are practicing right now. We are at practice.

You talk about neuroplasticity? What do you think is going on right now? Neuroplasticity. We kind of mention it as if it's a unique phenomenon. Now it starts, now it ends. Right. Now it's all the time there. What about muscle fibers?

connective tissue right now. You're adapting to sitting in that chair. I know it's painful. Right. Like trying to undo it all the time. Yeah, we all do. That's why Mark and Seema, they stand and they have, they put like all kinds of different like balls and stuff under their feet while they're doing their podcast and they're constantly stretching and. Yeah.

That's ideal. So, so in essence, it's more something to recognize and then to align with in your life. to what we call to become a practitioner to become a practitioner to view yourself not as a finished product as a something in constant transformation and evolution in certain growth not to corrupt by pushing it in this direction pushing it in that direction and and apply the needed pressures and stress so you can grow and you've pointed that in your question saying when i apply these pressures to myself like novelty unknown difficulty then i get all these good effects and i said you're right but the the idea is not to get just these good effects you

will continue to get them and more but there is something even more important than that this is the only way my way or the highway it's not my way It's someone else that says the absolute that says my way. Right. What you're saying is so counterintuitive to Western culture and how we do things, right? Especially if any practitioner of any sport or any everyday person, they typically, they want to strive for something. Right. And typically, you know, in every single element of our society, something is trying to.

to be sold and it's all based on consumerism right everything is is a product everyone is trying to whether it just be a gym or whether it be some sort of supplement or whether it be some sort of you know special workout program to fix your lower back right so like what you're doing it seems to be just a break away from everything that western society's adapted to you know where Arnold Schwarzenegger, muscle cars, fast food, you know, that kind of stuff. And this is like a huge departure from that. So it's very interesting. I mean, also to throw in to that list, American football. And it's just very fascinating how, you know, some of these guys like Christian McCaffrey are, you know, trying to learn from you and learn from what you do.

I want to, I want to be positive and to give you something. very positive to give a little space for this quality that is already present in our lives. And it is present. You're right, a lot of it has been corrupted in this way, but there are still places in our life and always were and always will be that are motivated by something else or shall I say not motivated

by anything. Whether it's an expression, whether it's a certain kindness that is there, whether it is a remorse, even if there is no kindness at all, a sense of remorse, whether it is something like this or that. So even with NFL and with the demands, the highest of the highest level, when you reach, when you climb up there, you realize you need to live,

de-ambition yourself in some ambition yourself in some ways to prevent this issue and that has been my experience the best of the best the ones who are really free they are above the game they made the game they grew up in the game but now they are swallowed the game right like and there is such examples then they they find a different quality not always not always sometimes the great are you know distorted and and and just played the game better than everyone else but sometimes you got you got a messy a Leo Messi mm-hmm different character huh doesn't look like that winner that we know right but he's such a winner that he eats all the winners that even my my biggest idol growing up in

in football in soccer was Diego Armando Maradona the greatest but one cannot argue with the greatness of Messi because there is something else a different component and there's always been such figures and that comes from a place beyond because really when you're really strong in the deep essence of the world do you need to ambition yourself do you need to push no it's easy you open the window the air comes in you don't pump the air in you have that freedom you have that capacity some athletes that i've i've had the pleasure to work with because of the complexity of the ideas for example i'll take a christian and we will read texts together what kind of texts difficult ancient texts yeah sometimes difficult texts difficult text difficult

Like for example, we've read this week, Jorge Luis Borges, an Argentine author. A text that will make you after one page, your head hurts a bit. Or we will, we did meth. Yeah, two weeks ago, we did some meth work. I thought you said you did meth. Not with any.

That's one way to do it. That's another practice. It can bring some things. For sure. For sure. So we did some complex mathematics. Yeah, some mathematics to make a point come across. Now again, when the video is presenting it, it presents it as if this is what we do.

Out of 12 hour days of practice, which nobody puts in. This is a small component, but it's popular, it's sexy, it's different. But we also do the power cleans, the strength and conditioning. We go to the field. But how much can you do that? Right. Recovery is like, so we do a lot of other things. We do, we meditate every day.

Hardcore, sitting still, no movement for long periods of time. And all of these things are coming together to transform something in a person who is already at the top. at entering the 10th season, come from a family of legends. Yeah. And he's, you know, perhaps, you know, one of the best, if not the best, to have done it. And yeah, and that's the place where he's at

and he's searching. So it's a very interesting work. If you, I wish you would have come to visit and to draw by and to see a little bit of the work, then you would have a better idea, but people maybe have now some kind of an idea. Well, Well, I can imagine what the first conversation with you guys must have been like.

I had to imagine it must have been similar to this conversation because most, I feel like, you know, bingo football players, they want to gain an edge, right? Like what can I gain from consulting with you or working with you every day for months during the off season, right? Bingo, you got it exactly right. It's very similar to this conversation. I've had this conversation once or twice before. It's, it's, but what is unique is, some people there is a push away there is almost like a sense of like stay away from this guy it's dangerous and it's not personally me iddo but it is that assassination and there is definitely a risk of being close to that thing you're like a psychedelic drug maybe maybe in some way it's not me

it is the practice it sure it is a genuine practice and i am not willing to sacrifice that. So I make sure it's there. So the conversation starts like that and many times people will like come out of one year, go to the other year or interesting things. Not realizing what they have met, who they have met, not me, not me,

but I'm talking about something that is moving through that, that me thing. And with Christian, he has that special, combination of intelligences and observation and honesty that he was almost immediately, that was very impressive. I was like, okay, I got you. We're dropping this, we're dropping this.

Really? I'm with, yeah, like I'm gonna, let's go, let's go. And the threat was like, that's why I saw real power in the guys like, assassination, sure, go ahead. You know, like going to the dentist, and I was like, no anesthesia, go in. Right, right.

That thing, like beyond. Like what if I start doing all this stuff with Edo and I decide I don't wanna do football anymore? Part of it. You know, part of it? And you know what? I wouldn't speak by anyone's name. And it's not the point.

I don't want anyone. You have kids, you don't need to get rid of your kids. You don't have kids, you don't need to make it. I tell people, It's not, you don't need to live, it's an excellent platform to work on yourself. But definitely there were days, we were having so much discovery and fun

that football took a distance. And then I made sure to bring it back, to not get too much distance from my side as well, not only from his side, and both of us cared about it because there is nothing wrong with it. Of course, there is freshness, there is something new. I'll take the skateboard,

I'll make them play football. I'll take the footballer, I'll put them on a skateboard. And that would be misunderstood. It's like, what will that help him? You don't get it. You still don't get it. You're looking at it from the wrong perspective.

You need to reopen the system. You need to reinvigorate it. You're not going to lose an edge, a special edge. It's easy to maintain after so much time. So that is not at risk. what do you think in the 10th season in the NFL, you're going to improve your speed? It's possible to do something.

But even if you do, what's that going to give you? When there is so much more that you can get in other ways. So sometimes the best thing to do is what you offered, what you've reported from your own experience, to go to the Shoshin, the beginner mindset, that Japanese perspective and to observe there's something. but it's not the only things that we will do and we're not going to abandon good old tried methods maintaining and boosting things protecting the skeleton bulletproofing it working we we've done a lot

of work on pressurization pressure in the body which is something that nobody practices in the NFL or i don't at least i don't know anyone we've worked on rhythmicality which is a huge thing on the playing field. Christian is also like plays the piano and he has some background in music. So he was very quickly able to understand how important it is. You know, skateboarding is important even there. Right. This feeling of where you are on sounds are very important. Sounds are extremely important. You know, my boxing coach used to turn his head around while we're working on the heavy bags and shout, I can't hear the music. Yes, right. You have the same with skateboarding. You can't sit with your eyes closed and you will recognize when someone of a high level is there

by the sounds so these things can be trained and can be worked at and sometimes people are kind of deaf they're missing that skill and you can enhance it because we know that that guy is talented in it but what about developing it when it's not there right yeah 100 percent and you know i would imagine that this stuff would be not only like incredible for his performance and his movement and his athletics like on the football field during his career but also broadening his horizons for when he does retire football you know because most people the tragic thing about the NFL is that a lot of these guys they're in there for so long they get incredible damage to their body and to their brain and then they leave football and they've kind

of lost their meaning they kind of like lose their way you know what I mean beautiful you you you bring some you bring an insight from your place which is beautiful and you're hitting it bingo bingo bingo there were two occasions over the years that i remember that were special working with athletes specifically it's not the only thing that i do i don't just work with athletes one was when i came to work with a very known football soccer european football player the top of the game played in barcelona And I asked him, what do you want to do? First question when we met. And he said, I want to enjoy the game again.

That was one occasion I remember. And I shook his head, I said, let's go. Second is with Christian where he told me before hiring me, it's not about winning for me. It's a spiritual journey. It's not about the NFL. Well, it's not about this. Maybe I get injured the first game.

And he's been injured before. He knows. So it's exactly what you said. It's already touching things underneath the athlete, the mover, the person. And it's important for our lives. He's a parent. He's a, yeah, he's a person in this world. And we are not addressing those things.

We don't have license for parenthood. And we're a product of people who didn't have license for parenthood. This is a missing practice. All religions represent practice. This is what they offer. It's not just a belief in X, Y, Z, but there is always practices involved, like fasting, like not speaking certain words, like not doing certain things. right those are representative practices also spiritual traditions also various systems various martial arts various yogic systems they're all practical the word practice encompasses all of

this it's a huge word it's almost the word life it's a huge word it's a word bigger than religion right even so because it contains the world of religion so for me that was why i do what i do If I found something better, I would have done that. Yeah. It's like you're helping these guys unplug from the matrix, right? It's like a big perspective shift to not just want to optimize something simple, something two-dimensional. But you're just really expanding it into something that's on a whole other level. So like to drill down specifically on like more of the specific things that you guys were.

I said you guys were like reading hard texts, philosophical stuff, maybe doing hard math problems. Like when it comes down to like physicality stuff, like what types of things do you like to work on in regards to that? Or like, are there any kind of like, for example, is there one thing you do every single day or is every day something different? Both. There are the components which are daily addressed because of the demands of the specific practice. Like for example, certain connective tissue work that we do. Not so much muscular work directly, but like how do you thicken connective tissue,

joint capsules, tendon, fascia, all this stuff. How do you really build these guys up? So this is like a daily thing that we've been doing, weird practices that are not known so much. You know, in the West here, and we're trying to take strength and conditioning and bend it into that reality. But in reality, it's not that suitable for it.

So like people try to do, for example, isometric holds mentioning the effect over tendons. You know isometrics? Statics. When you hold a position, under load. You're not moving dynamically. Right, right. So, yeah, it's true that it has certain effect

over the connective tissue, but this is also still sets and reps and time under tension. It's affected by the original state of mind of a strength and conditioning coach. And I went a bit wider and so able to bring practices from rock climbing to the ballet dancers. From the ballet dancers to the fighters, from the fighters to the football players and move this stuff between somatics and between so this is an example of a daily thing that is needed strength and conditioning needs to be programmed that's part of what i do we do power work strength and conditioning we use a variety of tools for that you cannot build someone's

explosiveness for example for football without weights right you need it it's not going to happen by doing you know pistol squats right calisthenics you need you need to to load the posterior chain, you need to develop, you need to develop in high speed duration, you need to be able to deal with very fast eccentrics, very fast negatives. Also skateboarders, by the way, which are horribly prepared for what they do.

By design. Yeah, they just do it. Because they're so, and that's why I love skateboarders and always did. They're artists, but they also sacrifice a lot of their bodies because of that lack of professionality that is not there yet, it starts. That's what makes it cool though.

Yeah, it is. By the way, I kind of meet a lot of skateboarders, Huberman is one. Yeah. So we had on the latest podcast that I recorded a few weeks ago, we talked a lot about skateboarding. And he asked me a question about a weird quality that I mention often, that is not so often mentioned here,

called air sense. The ability to promote perceive where you are in space when you're flying through the air. Mm. And you know that like those elite skateboarders, they have this keen sensation of where they are. Yeah. I don't know how far you went in your practice with skateboarding.

Did you do high ramps and... I didn't do much ramp stuff. I mainly did like jumping off of huge... Huge shit. Loading docks and down staircases and stuff like that. And now that I'm older, I'm doing more of just like that thing out there, that mini-ram.

Yeah. What stopped me was injuries. I probably sprained my ankle a dozen times. And that's where the first time. So you know a thing or two about this air sense. Yeah. Or lack thereof. Yeah, sometimes.

Yeah, I was also working as an acrobat, you know, from a length of time. And so there is this quality which sometimes you cannot predict, like a person is very coordinated, looks great as long as they touch the ground. The moment they're in the air, rolling down the windows, you know? Like, whoa, where am I?

You can see it on trampoline work. You can see it in big ramps, in skateboard. So this is a quality that how do we develop it? And you can develop it. There are practices to work on it, to enhance it. For example, nowadays, skateboarders work a lot with pits, with gymnastics pits, big ramps, to gymnastics pits, foam pits.

And all kinds of tools. Trampoline work is very useful. There is even spotted string work like from the world of circus where you have these strings like suspending you and certain harnesses. Yeah, so there is a way in. There is always a way to develop and not just kind of saying,

I don't have that. So I gravitated towards a different part of the practice because I couldn't do it. Yeah. There is a way to do it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100% man. And I think probably vision has a lot to do to do with it as well.

Huge. You know, I mean, I've seen stuff that, you know, other like super high level athletes, like football players, specifically the, what receivers, the guys who catch the ball, like, they do all kinds of crazy work with, you know, like bouncing balls off walls and catching them and like working with peripheral vision trying to do things where they can like do a simultaneous zones of awareness where they're trying to pay attention to what's happening out here

while focusing on what's happening here and like doing. We're doing a lot of this stuff as well. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Also this last weeks, we've had also a Christian brother, Luke, who is a wide receiver for Washington. And so we did a lot of this stuff.

And yeah, this is very important, huge part of it. The use of the eyes, the use of peripheral vision, dominant eye and also working on the non-dominant side. Closing an eye and trying to do something. Yeah, or having certain implements that are closing parts of your vision, or field of vision. There is all kinds of things.

I feel like that's such a fundamental part of everything that you do when you move is your vision and how you picture yourself in the world. You're very correct. Even when I'm moving my neck right and left and my eyes are circading, moving on the horizon, horizon, the quality of the smoothness of the eye movement will dictate the smoothness of my neck movement.

Really? So essentially, you can't be smooth if your eyes are not smooth. So it's not just training the eyes to see, it's training the eyes to be very smooth, not to be jumpy. Is that possible? Of course. To move across and not, because I feel like your eyes stick on things the whole way.

And what happens if you, when you're staring out of a window of a color, or a train. Right. And you can shift your eyes to the details on the window. So if I'm watching my fingers and I'm opening them slightly to see the outside and you're moving it, but you're watching the edge of your fingers, you'll be able to keep them smooth. So it's more the focused vision that keeps locking up.

Yes. But when you open up, you can you can gain a different quality. You know what I've always noticed about like incredible athletes, like for example, Michael Jordan or Tom Brady specifically, they have a very wide vision. Like their eyes are almost always pointed outwards. I don't know if you've ever looked at their faces. Like find a photo of Michael Jordan, like his, like a picture of his face on the court or even Tom Brady. Like when he's playing football, he'd look at their eyes.

They have like a crazy peripheral peripheral vision. Like you, I mean, I would imagine how that would be super helpful, especially in basketball, to have like the full court vision to see wherever, be aware of like everything at one point. But I always found that very interesting about those guys in particular. Also Kelly Slater. Same thing with him. Interesting. Yeah.

The use of the peripheral is a lot about also to be able to trust it. What I encounter often is not a lack of peripheral vision. It is an inability to trust it. So you use your focus vision because you didn't trust that stain that you saw. Right. to react to it. Right. So I educate and create scenarios in which trust it, go for it.

That is a blur, that is a stain. Learn that it's enough. Don't focus on it because that will be too late. It's too slow. The peripheral vision is much quicker, much more sensitive to low light conditions. And even if you look in my eyes and don't move your eyes from my face, can you tell me what What numbers do I have up there? I believe you have three on your right hand.

Okay. And I think you have one on your other hand. Look at it. Two, you have two and three. So, and I tricked you here a little bit, right? You did trick me there. But it's still, so you can train to be able to pull that information even from the peripheral without moving your eyes.

But you felt there was a limbic friction, right? Like you didn't, you wanted to move your eyes to find out. Yes. learning to trust it it's so hard to it's a hard thing to train too I feel like just we just trained it yeah and and you and you were able to to say it's three so in reality if you are in a military situation hostage situation or you're in a high speed football game and you can trust that blur and say that's three and not move your eyes you have an edge right a hundred percent

You found a photo of Michael Jordan, bro? Yeah, I mean, his eyes look normal, to be honest. Not on the court, like playing? I don't know. I guess you just have to see a video. Like, just like the way his eyes react. I don't necessarily think that you will see it from outside. Yes, there is.

His eyes are not straight on. You can't, you take certain photos, you really notice it. Yeah, but I don't think that it's necessarily connected to the peripheral vision. But it's interesting that you've noticed. Look at Tom Brady. Look at a close-up of Tom Brady. Just type in, type in Tom Brady. Eyes.

Tom Brady Eyes. Try that. Yeah. Okay. Eyes. Try to find. I mean, look, go up. Go up.

Look at that one. No, the GQ one on the top. Up, up, middle. Right there. No, not that one. Go back. Down to the left, very far left. Underneath the one of him in the red shirt.

GQ. No, no, no, no. To the left, left, left, left, left. Right there. Yes. Okay. Punching on that. Yeah, I mean, you can't.

There is. Yeah. You can kind of see, like, he's got a wide, you see it more when he's playing. But when he's like on, when he has his helmet on and he's like on the field. But like, you know, if you have a guy running that way, a guy running that way, moving in different angles and they all have defenders on them. You kind of like have to be trained to be able to do what I just tried to do. See the three and the one and the two. Yeah.

Yeah. Or catching balls from, you know, or sticks or we do it with a variety of things. Or sometimes I do something else. I ask the person to map with a glimpse. One glimpse, you have to map the scenario, then it's taken away from you. And now you have to do it. So for example, I did it a few weeks ago

where we were in a tennis court and I threw three tennis balls and they stopped in certain positions on the court. And I say, look, now blindfolded, him go pick them up in a whole open tennis court and by memory yeah it's not by memory it's by mapping spatial mapping like when i entered this room for example i was in the lounge in the in the in the how you call it the lounge yeah the lounge the hangar this hanger it still exists inside of me now it's mapped yes i i know how to get out i know where the

door is i know where the toilet is yeah so this whole thing is actually constructed simulated by us without us even noticing and similarly our body is also constructed inside of us there is these schemas simulations of ourselves the peripersonal space which is even a bigger sphere not just my body and spatial schemas and even social schemas. So you kind of know where you are in society. Right. Right. Like culturally. And all these simulations are like coming together in our, in us. Oh yeah. To create the us. Yeah. 100%. That's very interesting. So you can work and you can. So by placing this, it's not just memory, but it's let's see how detailed your simulation is. I put the balls and then go pick them up.

And it was amazing. There was like eight steps, bends down, picks the ball. Really? Yeah, four steps to the right. This was Christian who did? Yeah, Christian. And so it was very accurate compared to other people. Yeah, I don't remember exactly the scenario that we did,

but that was something like that. How much do you think people like him or people like Connor or whoever the person might be, over the super athlete might be on their level. How much of that ability that you're describing is genetic versus trained? Or how much of it is trainable? Or is there like a limit?

Because with him, it just seems like a natural thing he was born with. It's a natural thing to be born with, maybe. And what about growing up as a McAfree? Right. Did you forget that? Yeah, I did forget that. So you know what?

How can all these McAfri's be in the NFL. What all them won the genetic lottery? For example, he's the shortest of the family. Is he really? And he looks different than everyone else. He still made it work. Does he really look different?

Yeah, he looks different. Interesting. He's very different to his dad or his brothers. And they're all a bit different. You know what I see there more? Like I told you, it's not so much in the genetics or in the body. It's in the cultivation. It's in the environment.

It's in the environment. practice which you grew up in playing baseball basketball yeah playing football with a dad who was obsessed yeah right like with these things and he told me crazy stories about growing up there and on top of it of course there is a good genetic pool there sure you know they're they're also gifted in that regard i don't like the genetic questions so much because i feel it moves us away from practice. Instead, I prefer to ask, how shall I practice to improve? Not, is this genetic or not genetic? That goes to the comparison. Can I make it as a professional skateboarder or not? Here is my beef. And here is why I like skateboarding or parkour or break dancing. Some kid is born somewhere

with a polio disease. But he wants to be a gymnast. Can he be a gymnast? I guess if he really tried hard and worked hard at it. No. No. You're wrong. It's impossible. Gymnastics he cannot do. Why is that?

Because he has polio disease. His legs are... You can cure polio, right? You cannot cure... I'm talking about the situation where his legs are... He's paralyzed. Yeah, he has like a certain paralysis. Oh, okay.

No, he cannot do gymnastics. He cannot do gymnastics. What happens now? This kid becomes the greatest... break dancer in the world because his legs are lighter a little bit and he does these crazy tricks you've seen them and he makes millions more than any gymnast does in the Olympics yeah happens every day you gotta find this guy so yeah there is a million of them these days already he uses paralyzed break paralyzed yeah just like

you know the legs are atrophied they're with scratches but then they're so light he leans into his hands his legs are floating Wow. So why do I don't like the standardization of humans, which we've saw where it goes in our history, that is still happening in professional sports, Olympic sports. You got to be born to the right parents and in the right skin color to be in the 100-meter final in the Olympics. Yeah.

It's just the reality. So, okay, what about if I wasn't? So then there is these new phenomena like skateboarding where you can find a way. It's not one way. There is an art to it. There is an openness to it. And also limiting factors, I feel like motivate people to do things.

Also. And I love that. Instead of being blocked, you're never going to do gymnastics. Because your legs are, you know, or your elbow does not straight. you cannot do gymnastics. You can't, you know people that cannot fully lock the elbow, you cannot do gymnastics.

You're not going to get anywhere. There's this guy I follow on Instagram. I can't remember his name right now. Steve, you're going to have to look him up. He's a blind skateboarder, completely blind, and he rips harder than anyone I know on a skateboard. He rides a half pipe, a huge half pipe, and he does things I couldn't fathom doing.

them doing completely love it it's incredible and he even brings the stick with him on the rant i love it this is what i'm saying so for me this is a lot more about movement and our humanity coming back and now you can even make a fucking living from it yeah in with instagram and with youtube and that's the positive side of these things um the dan the man she there's this guy skates a half pipe go to his page this is also great what he did yeah this is definitely cool there's There's Anthony Ferraro Brett Devlu. Just type in blind skateboarder half pipe. Let's see what comes up.

That might be him on the second, yeah, right there with the help putting the helmet on. That might be him. Click on that, yeah. I'm not sure if this is him or not. You saw how he felt that edge there? Yeah, yeah. He uses it like a stick, like a blind man stick. That's a giant verb.

ramp too that's like a 12 foot vert ramp he's on oh man look at the confidence the speed he moves to the edge incredible this isn't the guy i was talking about the guy i was talking about somebody different but that's still super impressive to be able to do something like that and that's what i'm saying you know like maybe if this guy wasn't blind he wouldn't be so motivated you know he probably would but there's a there's a good chance if he wasn't blind he wouldn't be making videos of himself skating avert ramp. If he was naturally given, if he was born with this ability

just to be good at doing this, he might not take it so seriously or he might not be that interested in it. Right. Just something else to examine. Do we need that? Or can we do our best without that? Yeah, totally.

Before I started this podcast, I had never talked in front of a camera or never done anything like this at all. Like I was just a cinematographer shooting videos and documentaries and trying to make things look cool visually. Editing stuff and shooting stuff. Never once thought about completing a sentence on my own, and having people listen to me and judge me for how smart or dumb I sound.

And then when we started doing this in 2016, 2017, I could barely form a sentence. You know, I had probably, I hadn't done much reading. I didn't, I was ignorant to so much. about history to so many different subjects and then like starting to learn stuff and starting to have more conversation with people and trying to actually connect with people and have a flowing conversation it's been like a crazy learning experience and I'm still I'm still terrible at it but it's it's um you know it's a lot like the whole nature of this conversation

like starting things that you have never tried and that you're awful at and trying to develop that stuff and it's and it's also things that you're naturally not good at. I love it. I think in essence you're using the situation. You're using the podcast instead of being used by it, which I often is what I see. And it's not just about the success of the podcast. This is the core thing. What are you going to take on with you from here? You're not going to do this forever.

So what are you going to take from this? And even if you do this forever, what do you take from here? from that doing, that should be a practice. It is a practice already. It's just about recognizing it. And the second thing is there is a lot more, don't find what you're good at and do that. That's cool, everybody knows that.

But my offering is find what you suck at, because there you have a lot more for you, not for what society put you in under that thing. is like, oh, he's great, but what does he care? People, you know, people come and tell me like, oh, you're great, oh, you did this, you affected me in this. I feel nothing. I feel nothing.

This hasn't, this doesn't touch me. Really? Of course. Well, where am I in this? Where am I? You're great, you're great, you can do this, you can do that. You have no idea. Sometimes people, you know, present me in a podcast.

The greatest expert's about the greatest expert in human movement or whatever. And if I am, what do you know about it? You need to be an expert yourself to know if I'm an expert or not. Right. So it's this lie that we keep joining in. It's like, you lift me. Okay, Naseema introduced me. So I'm here.

And now I'm lifted by you. And then the next person brings me in. Yeah, the people that try to do that kind of stuff are the ones that are trying to compensate for a lack of something that internally, you know. I agree. I agree. The people that I always say, like the people who brag about getting the most girls or the people that brag about being able to beat anybody up are the ones that are the opposite is probably true.

Beautiful. And that's why I often see in fighters, the ones who end up in martial arts like me are weak. My father, he never went to martial art because he was strong. He was confident. He had fist fights. He had this and he didn't need to go to martial arts. I felt weak. So I found myself in martial art.

Most of these fighters are that way. They come from a place of being abused, being bullied. It's a common thing that keeps repeating. But then the other recognition is I don't have to pursue this. anymore. To be able to understand it, okay, it was part of my journey, but I don't need to continue to pursue it or feeling dumb. So people pursue, you know, crazy careers in mathematics, in physics, whatever. From one experience in primary grade where they couldn't get it and everybody else got it and now they're dumb for the rest of their life. Yeah, that's another thing that goes into, you know,

that's baked into our culture too is just the like academia and science and and you know all of these scientific pursuits there is this built-in competitiveness to it where they all want to be smarter than the other one and they all want to beat them on the hierarchy and they're just like in this very very shallow like two-dimensional game that they're playing it's all it all boils down to the same thing it's all ego I feel like at some level for most of this stuff even for like jujitsu like When I started doing jit-su, I was, you know, I was heard these stories like, oh, you know, you kind of like lose your ego,

you realize that you're helpless. And it's like, you know that anyone can take you out, anyone can take you down, even a kid who a 16-year-old can do this to you and you're helpless. And I'm like, oh, wow, interesting. I get in it, all those guys have the biggest egos. Oh my God. I'm so happy, you say it,

because I often need to, I need to, I'm, I'm, look, I've never, I've never seen, not, never but I don't need to take my shoes off to count the number of times working with a fighter who actually uses fighting as a practice for themselves a spiritual journey it's often mentioned in all these beautiful clips the samurai yeah yeah and the one it's like fucking bullshit it's this is this is the biggest crime because it's not it's okay if you keep silent and you just do your thing and maybe you know you're corrupted in that way and you fight to be a showman,

you fight for the sense of strength over others. But then to claim it's a spiritual journey, come on. It's not a spiritual journey for you. It's clear to everyone who you are. The persona, the ego, the pursuit, et cetera. And you know, I'm- Even the belt system, the belt system is a whole. Of course, of course, yeah.

And if you look back at the belt system, you know where, you know, how it evolved, and, you know, also the need to give you that to pull you in, you get this belt and then this belt and then this belt. There is, it's like Scientology. It's like a cult. Yeah, yeah. And stay longer.

You're going to get the black belt soon. Yeah. So like some people in BJJ, they stay for like three, four years beyond the point that they would have quit just to get the black belt. Right. It's such a common thing. And then they get the black belt, they quit. Yeah.

So it's like. It's so strange. sold four years of your life is like for what ridiculous this happens everywhere it's not bjj it's not just martial arts it's everywhere you're being pulled by these forces and it's not about you it's not about us yeah so for me it was a big thing of like wait what is it for me here you're great you're great or working on stage and seeing the audience or you know or or being popular or making the money or whatever it was. I was like, there is nothing here for me.

I'm left with nothing. I'm playing other people's games. You said before the matrix, but this is another matrix. It's not the main, you know, it's not the inner matrix, but it is an outer matrix, which is clear. So it's almost the job, the obligation of the practitioner to be a renegade. I like it because it enhances,

other parts of my life. You know, if I do like a hard jiu-jitsu session and it really kills me, the rest of my day feels so much better. And I'm uplifted. You know, this might be, you know, the wrong way of looking at it. But for me, it's useful because it puts me in a great mood. It makes me feel like I did something. And, you know, it enhances different things. Like, it enhances cardio. I feel better after I do my cardio. And, um, you know, it enhances. It enhances cardio. And, um, I don't know. I feel like things like jujitsu with things like not necessarily skating, but definitely podcasting, different things like this. They, they spread out into other aspects of my life. And they enhance all those, right? It's not just one specific lane that's mutually exclusive

to that thing, which is what I really like about it. And I like, like when Insima was here, he was explaining to me a bunch of things with jiu jih Tzu, like when it comes to breathing and all that stuff. And he's like, he's like, I like to compete against myself in this way. where like I go, when I roll with somebody, I try to go as long as I can without breathing through my mouth. I'm just like, see how long I can go. Don't worry about anything else. Like do whatever you can do and then just focus on not breathing

through your mouth and see if you can last longer than that guy. And it's just, it's like a competition against yourself, not necessarily like this, you know, strength or technique thing. Beautiful, very, very much in line with how I do things. When I was rolling and we're using a lot of counts, for example. So instead of doing that with the mouth, you can maintain a certain breath count that you cannot break, like four seconds inhale, four seconds exhale. Oh, wow. And you'll be able to do it with someone who is maybe lighter or maybe, you know,

and that's a great practice. It's a great practice. And you get something for you. Yeah. You know what? I'll tell you something else. Don't tell the other person. Right. Don't tell anyone. Don't do charity and then tell anyone. Right. Even more for yourself. Keep some things just for yourself. Yeah, and that's a cool way too to get your mind off like that vibration, that like normal like like this could be true for football or martial arts or whatever. Like if you're doing what you're doing, say let's say football.

Like my goal is to run the ball across that line and get seven points or six points, whatever it is. instead if you can think about it like my goal is to do this many breaths between the 50 yard line and the one yard line or something like that and you're you're now kind of measuring your success based on something completely different I wonder what kind of effect that would have you know the overall picture I love it great great great ideas and this is exactly the the state of mind of a practitioner or even within this conversation right now I'm all right using a similar thing for example there are certain expressions that I don't wish to come about or for example a certain expression of negativity but I don't

wish it to be present I don't want it to control me maybe I'm tired or my stomach is a bit queasy or something I want to be in charge here So in this sense, you can practice it. For example, don't frown. You do this a lot. But not in a frowning way, in an expression of wanting to understand. That you can play with it.

Okay. Yeah, you can try all kinds of things. And these are practices, these are things. When I work with athletes here in the US, they have this thing, fucking dumb ass, to themselves. You know that thing? Oh, yeah.

When they fail, and I'm like, one of the first things that I do here, when I start to work with someone, I don't wanna see an expression of frustration. My job is to make you frustrated. Your job don't show me any expression of frustration. Yeah, that's a task in itself. That's a task. And doing that, it's exactly what you offered.

This amount of breath until that line. And it's like you play a double game. And what happens? Growth inside, release. development, all kinds of things, not just directly in the corrupted way, I become a better athlete, but much deeper than that.

That's very interesting. It's interesting what you said about, like, frowning or anything like that. It's very interesting how different physiological things you can do with your face or with your body or with your posture can affect your mind and your mood. They are glued together. Yeah.

Try to inflate your chest. Try. Inflate? Yeah, like me, like that position. No, no, no, keep breathing, but just hold this position. Try to locate humility inside. Right. It's hard. It's not easy.

It's not easy to act. Or if you're collapsing down the shoulders and you slur down, try to locate confidence. They're attached. Or if you look down. Or if you look down. They're fused together. Yeah. Of course we can separate them again. We can uncouple them. The posture from the emotion, from the state, but it's something that can be used. Like when you get hit in fighting, in boxing, you put on a smile, little smile for yourself, not for him, for yourself, to calm yourself down. Because the moment you soften here and the corners of your eyes and the corners of your mouth stretch towards the ears.

even the pre-smile, immediately something changes inside. It's very interesting how that works. So this can be practiced. Those are great observations that you have. And I'm sure that your ability to glimpse those things and to make them intelligible for yourself are a big part of your life and the way that you do things because it's not so often that I hear it from people.

How much do you guys focus on? because I know I've heard a lot from people like how breathing through the nose is like very important and you shouldn't breathe through your mouth and especially when it comes to like very taxing physical activities that are like cardio intensive. How much do you guys focus on that? And I know also like belly breathing I've heard is like very important and like with when you're moving how your breath should be synchronized with your movements. Like for example, exhaling on effort and things like that. So there is a bunch of stuff in here.

There is some good stuff, but there is a lot of bullshit as well, like put together there. Oversimplified stuff, in essence that it's easy to conceptualize. You know, like, okay, here you go. 30 second clip on Instagram, breathe through the nose,

you know, or chest breathing is like creating panic, all this stuff. And of course, you're part of the BJJ community, so you've had that effect from rickson and trickling down and all these mentions i know where they come from yeah but there is some truth there there is also the breath is extremely versatile for a good reason we should be able to adapt the breathing to whatever situation we do including this situation right now when i'm talking to you and my breath is in line with it so i don't stop to all of a sudden or if now we're not we're not we're not we're

go into a sprint or into a fight or whatever it is so guess what if breathing through the mouth was bad evolution wouldn't have allowed that right to be there's a time for there's a time for it and there is a time for everything so it's oversimplified things that are and then we can practice and you can notice you're breathing through the mouth all the time and that is where it comes from And then to breathe through the nose helps and, you know, one of the, of course, in the yogic breathing, there is a lot of practice of that alternate nostrils, bringing the air from different cavities, from the mouth. And eventually, you know, if you really look deeper, breath is not about the physical breath. Breath is about a different process altogether. The word for breath work, the ancient word prana yama, does not mention breath, really.

It is about prana. You know what prana is, right? What's prana? Chi. You know the word chi? Cheet? Chi. Energy. Oh, chi.

Chi. Yeah. It's the same, the same word. So, there is so much adaptability and depth to breath work. I think it is still in early stages of understanding in the West. I didn't go to the Western sources so much to learn this. I went more to the Eastern sources where there is a whole world there that opens up. But it's useful for you to pay attention to nose breathing, mouth breathing,

to pay attention to how you manage it. belly breathing created for example is it created more issues than helped really yeah extremely oversimplified thing where there is already a displacement a breaking of the proper posture the diaphragm is the primary breath apparatus you know the diaphragm they make they make things that you can put in your mouth that you can like adjust how hard it is to breathe through your mouth and you're like we're supposed to strengthen your diaphragm like tools to do that yeah not the fan of those as well but yeah there is a lot of methods to do this by the way nassim i i gave him a practice of breathing last time we met he asked me and i told them you don't need those implements by a watering hose

and put the edge of the green hose in a bucket of water take the other edge and make bubbles. It's old method. Blow bubbles into the water. In the bucket. Do it for a period of time. And then from that he started to go into Dijeridoo and all kinds of, you know, esoteric sides of cyclical breath.

And there is a lot there to discover. Yeah. But anyway, so when everything works well and the diaphragm is in a natural scenario, the posture maintains a certain position that the rib cage the pelvis and then you don't push the abdominal wall out and in and this belly breathing is in an attempt to move the diaphragm but it's actually creates a distortion oftentimes it has a place but it has again over been oversimplified maybe what i'm saying will not be so quickly and easily understood by people but maybe it will open a path to investigate further and

And I advise. Yeah, well, my general understanding of it was that maybe not so much to do with a diaphragm breathing, but like when you are like moving heavy loads, that when you're to protect your spine, that if you breathe out when you are putting in the effort, it is safer or like- If you breathe out too much, you will deflate that support.

So it's a breathe out, to a certain extent and maintaining pressurization. Imagine now you need to lift the fridge. Right, right, right. It's not gonna work. So to breathe out, again, it's oversimplified. And sometimes it's not so easily understood and people make, until even with elite level athletes,

I see that they don't know how to breathe well as per the scenario. When I say breathe well, there is no right way. There is a right way per, the scenario. If the scenario is to sit now in stillness and meditate, there is a certain breathing. If there is, if I'm here in a podcast talking for two hours, there is a different type of breathing. If I'm lifting heavy loads, different type of breathing. If I, if somebody's knee on belly on me, different type of breathing. Yeah, for sure. So you, you were talking about

how you just a minute ago how you studied like eastern sources to learn a lot of this stuff where specific so were you reading like like old yogi texts and stuff like this to try to learn and digest some of this stuff originally like where did you have any kind of mentors that taught you this was it all self-taught how much of it all all of the above yeah and i've been reading a lot from a young age different sources from the east from the west philosophy and also teachers that i've met along the way a big influence on me my teacher david david malca who is a yogi and yeah he sent me down the path of a lot of this and i went to china i went to india i went in europe i was in in russia many times researching

and getting little pieces and trying to understand more from a young age And I've started also to teach very young. I'm celebrating, I've celebrated this year, 30 years of teaching. Wow. So I've started early on. And that was also a big part because I didn't know what I was doing. So I had to bring, I had to bring some stuff. And so I devoted a lot of time to study, not just to the practice.

Did you study like how many different cultures have you looked into that are doing this kind of stuff? Like was it mainly like the Eastern cultures? or have you looked into like different everything everything that i could including you know i spent many years in brazil oh really i was i i did capoeira for many years 17 years i was capuera the afro-brisian martial art okay that is a whole cultural 600-year-old weird phenomena so i i can speak portuguese fluently i spent many years in brazil studying that so that was one side the same South America, the shamanism, this whole thing was always there.

You know, Candomblay, the religion there, the Afro-Brazilian religion. Then I spend a lot of time also in the East. I work closely. I do also movement design for movies. So I worked with Bollywood, the Bollywood industry. So I've had the opportunity to be taken around and to be shown. Movement design. I've never heard that.

Yeah, nowadays, you know, you got a character like, you know, some superhero. So Superman, everybody knows Superman, but you know, if you got a new character, how does he fly? How does he manipulate? Or for example, the movie I worked with, he is manipulating fire. So who's responsible for them? How do that character manipulates fire? The actor doesn't know shit about this nowadays. They originally actors came from physical theater.

It was first grounded in the physicality, but it became much more about the face and expression and vocalization and a lot less about the body. So movement design is designing the motion of the. So do you work with the actors of these movies to do this stuff to get that ingrained into their brains? Yes. First we design the concept, the movement concepts,

and then we train the actors, take care of their bodies, et cetera. Oh wow. And also this also touches the stunt people. It touches the directors. I worked with some of the greatest names in India that are people who cannot walk on the street and was amazing experience. And that gave me also access to various things in the east.

I went to China. I come from martial arts background. So I research a lot in the martial arts and have a look and have the fortune of having friends in a variety of places. So there is a lot of weird practices there. In China? In China. I was in Russia multiple times studying the Soviet methods.

And I spent a lot of time in Germany. In Germany, there is a whole host of things in Europe, the old methods out of France, Swedish gymnastics, esoteric systems from the West, hermetics, all kinds of things that over the years, I'm passionate about this. So I think you as well from seeing your little library out there. Yeah. Out of all those cultures that you spent time with, which one was the most interesting to you? Or which one kind of, maybe not the most interesting.

Maybe that's the wrong word. Which one kind of like shocked you the most or like changed your perspective the most? Recently, in recent years, I've had the chance to go to Indonesia. And this is right now the most. fascinating thing and I believe it is the most fascinating place on the planet for me right now which still contains so many unknowns I we did an expedition to these ancient people there and stayed with them and there is a lot of new life forms that are being discovered there still weird practices even the religion

various religions and various dialects are very interesting, weird combinations. There is a lot of trans states, not a lot of psychedelics. Trans states? Yeah, working with trance. How does that work? With no drugs.

Yeah, it's, well, it can be facilitated in all kinds of ways, but the weird thing that it happens there very naturally, without much needed. Whoa. Yeah, it just kicks in. That's why there is no drugs. And it's just a powerful place and powerful people still connected to something.

Even the common people, you still feel this flavor underneath the surface, all kinds of things that also came out of these ancient kingdoms that still were together, India, Thailand, and there is a lot of stuff from the cultural revolution from China that escaped, certain practitioners escaped. So that has been the latest thing and I'm there every year. Do you think there's something different? Like you've been to the Amazon rainforest?

I have. Like what you just explained with Indonesia and the people there and the type of states they can achieve and even with people in the Amazon compared to people who live in society over here, compare that to New York City. Do you think there's something about being in those locations surrounded by nature that maybe opens up the human possibilities even more, like the senses? Or I feel like I've always felt like there's what happens when you put people in like this electrical grid surrounded by buildings and this, you know, Wi-Fi.

and Waymo's and, you know, screens everywhere. I feel like there's a, it limits human potential in a way that's kind of hard to, it's kind of hard to articulate exactly how that happens. But I feel like there's something that happens like maybe it dulls our senses a little bit more because I've heard stories of people that go to play, like the way you just described it to me, I've had many people describe to me how when they go to places like this, it kind of like, it broadens their senses where they can, they can sort of, they can pull more out of nature

and they kind of sense more, there's more of a native intuition that comes out of them. 100%. And it's also very similar. You're right about the Amazon and Indonesia and these ancient cultures. I'll show you afterwards some pictures

and it looks very similar. And I think what is often not understood about this process, first, you go to you go to a certain place sometimes it's about being in the place forgive me for you know the weekend ayahuasca ceremonies in miami you know but sometimes you go to a place it's not only about the shaman it's not about it's about the place there is vibration there is a menation there is a

space there is a smell and more importantly it's not a jail-breaking a hard change which we sometimes expect i went there nothing happened you didn't go there right to go there you have to go there and to go there means desensitizing yes i can't taste a fucking tomato i'm eating macdeme Donalds. So the tomato is perceived plastic flavor. Tomatoes are sweet. People cannot feel the taste of a tomato. So once you step away from all this stuff and you gain a bit of distance, you start to hear the whispers around. Yes. And that is so powerful that by the more, it starts with something very small. It's almost like a little touch in that you don't notice is there, but it gains moment. momentum and then the real demons come out and it's a very powerful thing so this is something that happens and that's why i take people into those places also to practice so we we do these events

and we bring people into that because it's part of the experience it's part of the change i cannot reach a critical mess transforming something without sometimes stepping out of this place right i do it also with athletes i'll take an athlete like have serious issues, cannot change, can't take him, fly somewhere. Yeah. You know, private jets, whatever is needed. Put every resource you can behind it. We're coming back different.

Stripping away all these comforts, all these little things. Arriving there, you fly on a private jet, but then arriving there into hell, you know. Yeah. But it's needed. Yeah. And there's something to be said about, you know, walking barefoot through the four. in South America, surrounded by millions of heartbeats of insects to the monkeys, to the jaguars, to everything else, knowing that there's eyeballs on you, 360. And, you know, just from

like the patterns, the way the wind's blowing, the patterns that the birds are chirping in, the way the insects sound, the way, you know, hearing the river. And, you know, like something about that, I feel like it unlocks something deep inside us that is kind of like it is, degraded when you're in a city. You know what I mean? And, you know, I imagine it's probably got to be, it's, it's going to be way different and it's going to shape not just the way you think or like the vibration that you're on, but it will like shape your physical body

trying to move through an area like that as well, you know, like trying to get a workout in in the forest. Like, what are you going to do? You're going to climb a tree. You're going to swim through the Amazon River. you know yeah the concept of a workout becomes ridiculous all of a sudden or right or but you know you mentioned all this environment but at the same time switch the scenario desert oh yeah and you'll also get crazy really yeah crazy experience what's the feeling in desert you're drowning that's weird

like it's the open spaces lack of water you feel like you're underwater yeah you're You're suffocating. It's claustrophobic. It's open. And there is something there. The people of the desert, the Bedouins, you know, my grandfather, he is Africa. He came from Africa, from North Africa, and he was a Berber. That desert people, like the freemen in Dune, you know?

Oh, yeah. Different people, special people, different connection. The eyes cannot focus dunes so you go into this peripheral state. Wow. There is a, yeah, we have built, constructed the cities. And now there are prison. We are in this cement jungle that is imprisoning us. And we're not supposed to see these straight lines.

Right. They're barely straight lines. Imagine the forms. People talk about taking drugs and seeing all these shapes, but geometric stuff. Yeah, but just change the geometry around you in nature. You immediately change the state of mind. You immediately change the state of the use of the eyes.

When you walk in the jungle, you don't use focused vision 90% of the time and 10% of the time use peripheral vision like we do when we're driving or something. It's exactly the opposite. Most of the time, you're peripheral. Then something draws your attention, like a movement there. You watch, oh, it's a bird. Then you go back to the periphery. You don't study every leaf on the tree.

Right, exactly. So this- It's like touching it with your palms versus your fingertips. Beautiful. And what I have observed, this invaded our anatomy. Now our movement forms are these straight lines, yoga. How can this be an ancient practice? Look at the poses.

Right. Nothing looks like this in traditional cultures. Look at the dances in Africa. Look at the shapes. That is a lie. That is a lie. That is not an ancient practice. And when you investigate deep, you discover that's not the real yoga, the ancient yoga.

That was a yoga fabricated for the westerner who came in. It was affected a lot by Swedish gymnastics. and the English being in India and and all of this. There are great works. There is a book called The Yoga Body that goes into this, breaks a lot of illusions for people about how ancient it is, that modern postural yoga that we often pursue. That's interesting.

And this isn't everything. This is in everything that we do. Even the skateboard is a bit too linear. The board itself, it's not linear, right? It's not linear, right? But it is a bit too linear. And late in the recent years, there has been better attempts to not try to do that.

Why the skateboard is linear? Because it gotta communicate with straight ground, which doesn't exist in nature. You barely have a situation where there is a straight ground. Yeah, that's true. The same for the human foot. Well, I mean like, it seems so unnatural, but.

In the big picture, it is, it's natural in the sense that this is human, this is evolution. This is, you know, the first technology was fire. And now we have space lasers. Correct. The problem is with the word natural, which means absolute shit. Everything is natural. Everything is natural. Everything is natural.

This is natural. Viruses being genetically manipulated in labs. That's natural. Yeah. The word, I'm not using this word. I'm often confused with this word. Natural movement guy. No, that's not what I do.

Because the word is meaningless and it's dangerous word. It's a word of snobs. In order to go beyond, you must go through. You're not going to go back. So I'm not the guy going back to nature. I love skateboarding. But I just mentioned, let's not forget also that side, it's supposed to create some kind of an interaction

with a straight surface or relatively smooth surface. By the way, surfing is very different in that regard. Many people place them very close to each other, but they're very different in many ways, as you know. Also movement-wise, they're very different. State of mind-wise, they're very different. Surfers versus skaters, very different people. Yes. Well, I mean, there's a lot of overlap in the people for sure,

but the physical aspect of it is a completely different thing for sure. And there is an overlap because it's kind of a way when there is no waves. Yes. But there is also a very different psychology. Different psychology. Yeah. I just met a big wave surfer working with Christian. He's a good friend, Luca.

Luca Padua, I believe his name. He's a young kid. Laird Hamilton took him in. Oh, really? Saw him surfing when he was, you know, young. 13 years old and took him in and came to practice with us. That's a whole, and then big wave surfing, it's completely different from surfing.

Yeah, totally. So that, that it was so beautiful to see how he works the state, the animal, the archetypical animal compared to like football player. Yeah. Compared to another person was there, was a professional soccer player. Yeah. And that's another thing about, you know, going back to what we were saying earlier in this conversation

about skateboarders compared to like NFL players, right? There's like there's no professionalism in it. Some of the best professional surfers in the history of the sport at their, in their primes, where in their early 20s getting hammered every night, staying up all night partying on no sleep, getting up, still drunk, slamming a beer, going out and winning a contest, you know, in like in, you know, they're not athletes. They're not athletes. They're not jocks. They're not athletes. No, it's a drug. It's like surfing a wave like that and like, like,

getting barreled on like a wave where there's three feet of water between you and the razor sharp reef below you and like people in the crowd screaming when you get spit out of that thing as a drug. That's, I feel like they're choosing a high. You didn't talk about yet the danger. Sacrifice is a life or death thing. So it takes a totally different state of mind.

The sports person is a person of control. That person is often a person who was able to let go of control. Yeah. It's more often in sports where you find a person who can control the environment. But when you go to the ocean, you don't control it. There's no control over it.

It's a different way to control by letting go of the control. You gain a certain control. Yeah, it's definitely super different when you have, when the environment is in control and you just have to work with it and do your best, because there's never, there's no, two waves that are the same. I mean, there are actually. There are, I mean, there's obviously, depending on where you go, you can get very similar waves, but for the most part, like, everything

is different. Like, there's never two waves that are exactly the same. So you kind of have to adapt to the environment. And speaking of adapting, there was, which is kind of like in line with what we've been talking about, I had this woman on the podcast a couple years ago who was studying a culture, I believe in Indonesia, of these sea people that they live on the sea. And they, on these boats, pirates, they spearfish. All they do is they hunt fish with spears. And they can hold their breath for like, I think it was 10 minutes. They can go down with like 10 plus minute breath holds to go down and catch fish.

And she believes, she studied them and she thinks they're evolving like in real time. She found out that they have like incredibly huge spleen. And like there's different traits. Like their feet are very wide, big. Which is a very different adaptation than. the Sherpas of Tibet who are climbing those mountains. And that's very, very interesting. They have this red blood cell adaptation.

And they have this spleen adaptation. Right. But both of them have a capacity with oxygen, which is abnormal. Yeah. So it's very interesting. Yeah, it is interesting to see how there's different humans all over Earth that are so much different than each other, like adapting and evolving in different directions. And evolving by different practices.

which touches everything that we talked before, that oftentimes people confuse. They see from the outside a certain practice that we do, and they take it from the perspective of one practice. And so, for example, from the place of strength and conditioning, you'll say, this will do nothing. But then they don't realize it's a practice for the skin, or it's a practice for the neurology.

So the adaptation goes somewhere totally different. but the general public has went down to this narrow attention spans and narrow there is not even an attempt to understand so there is a split almost in the world of real seeking still of depth and understanding and the other side which thinks that they do it but actually approach it from the superficial side yes yeah 100% hold that thought i got to pee real quick go ahead we'll be right back folks. I was just explaining to you how my hamstrings are super tight, but you said it's bad to loosen them? It can be. It can be in the sense that there is a reason when people say usually, like my hamstrings are very tight and I can't seem to loosen them, even though they're trying

to stretch them. There's a can of worms there that you don't want to open up by forcing, repeating, just stretching. Why? Why the hamstrings are tight? That's an investigation. It's a big thing to look into but there is um usually it's related to some kind of a protective mechanism that is kicking in yeah to keep you safe right to protect some other part maybe like the back or correct something like that correct so in the past um i've jail-breaked some things and regretted it oh really yeah on yourself yeah on myself and also on others making the mistake yeah making a mistake Especially with the motivation and the work ethic and the harder you are, harder hard worker, this is dangerous.

So I'm not saying not to stretch them, but if you notice that they don't react to your stretching so easily and they are very tight, we should go back, you should go to another path to look at it. Instead of just attacking it head on. Correct. Right, that makes sense. Yeah, I've tried different things. things forever. It's been years, but I've like tried with sitting on or like, uh, foam rollers. Not just foam rollers, but sitting on like, uh, tennis balls like under my hamstring and like

putting a lot of weight on it to where it's almost feels like there's a knife sticking into it. And different things like that, different stretches, yoga. I've tried it all. And it's, you know, it's also like glute all the way down the hamstring. It's just like, if I move too much, I feel like my hamstrings is literally going to explode. If you move too much, What do you mean? If I move it in a specific way too much, right? Like if I bend down to tie my shoes, I feel it big time. And it's a huge limiting factor for me.

I feel like in everything. But yeah, I do need to explore that, figure out what that is. I feel like, and I've been told this too, that like everything from like the way you sit to even the way you walk, like the way you just walk down the street has a huge effect on, you know, like the balance of your muscles or how tight. height certain muscles and will be like in your legs or different things like that. Yeah, of course. You are what you do often. This is part of it, but there is even more primary things

like breathing. Like every breath might be responsible for your tight hamstrings, which means 20,000 plus times a day, even when you're sleeping. So for example, the certain breathing mechanics or, you know, gut issues, digestive issues can create all kinds of weird stuff happening.

And yes, of course, certain emotional states, looping thoughts, repeating thoughts. There is all kinds of things we don't notice. They're constantly there and they build up a lot of tension and issues in the body. You were saying on, I forget what, I heard, I saw a clip of you, you were explaining how you were doing a practice where you just decided to get up and walk down at business. It was in Tokyo? You decided to walk down the street in Tokyo and not touch another person.

In Hong Kong. Similar. You were just like jiving through people like acrobatics trying to. No, not acrobatics. It's just like what you said before, like you give yourself a little task and nobody knows. So I was just like making my way to this place. Every day I had to go down, but it's packed. Hong Kong, it's like, you know,

so and just try not to touch anyone, which is very difficult in Hong Kong. I bet. So you end up, you know, contorting all different times of ways. Yeah. And just to show people like practice, there is the official practice, that gym. You set up a gym for yourself and it's a room of practice, we enter the room, but there is an unofficial practice that can happen maybe now under the table or you know when

we're eating lunch or you know just before a meeting or any kind of thing because eventually practice is 24-7 so that understanding is potent so you can you can put it into your life um climbing stairs in certain ways so whenever you have an opportunity to climb stairs you do it in a certain way Like, for example, not putting your foot deeper than the seam of your toes on the edge of the stair. Like climbing with just your toes? Yeah. So you have to create this kind of a platform, right? Like you can press with your toes.

And then the rest of your foot is hovering. So it strengthens that connection. I'm going to have to show you my toes after this podcast. I got some fucked up toes. That really limits my movement. Is it because of injuries? because of... No, I just have...

I think I inherited bunions from my mom. So I have really bad bunions on my feet. So like I don't have like... I'm not able to like sprawl my toes out like very well. So it inhibits the way and I have to like constantly compensate and think about how I'm walking. Because I know people like to talk like some people like will walk duck footed.

And that makes it worse. I've ever seen LeBron James's feet. My feet kind of look like his. Except I don't play back. And so I like consciously have to worry about like, I'm always trying to like point my feet more forward and trying to, you know, maintain the proper posture and gait like when I'm walking for like the health of my feet

and so I can keep doing shit when I get older. It's, it's, there is a lot you can do about it. First, it's good that you have all these awareness and understanding. I notice also the structure of your thumbs is very unique. So all these things are good to realize, but there is also a lot of your thumbs of your thumbs yeah i got fucking crazy thumbs i know i saw that's my job to see those things so i immediately the analysis goes on how you walk how you you know so there is a lot you can do about it but the awareness of trying to walk straight

is not always going to be enough in most cases it's not why is it not straight and and that again that goes back and I'm creating more questions and answers, but I want to also give something real. Yeah, a lot of the things that are happening in the day to day to bring awareness to them is powerful, but immediately to try to change them not as powerful. Funny. Trying to change them is not as powerful.

Yes. immediately to try to change them. So for example, with your walk, try instead of straightening your feet forward, just try to pay attention to your walk. Don't change anything. You'd be surprised if you actually do that for a while, every time you walk, simply take the observer seat. Don't change anything and try to, would give you more something that the world may be most of the the world is not ready to yet understand, for those who understand, it would be gold.

Interesting. So just not consciously trying to make any changes, just pay attention to what you're naturally doing. Correct. And this is true for a lot of other things. How we talk or how we treat others. And you're saying you can gain some sort of unique insight from this?

The insight is of course clear because you are paying attention. But there is more than that. The attempt to change is another distortion. We think now we've changed. We made a solution. You obviously see you don't walk straight. Even though you've tried to straighten it. The hamstrings do not open up.

You're foam rolling, stretching. the harder you go into this the worse it will become interesting so what's the answer is there no answer is that the answer no there is an answer we don't know it and in order to know it we must first observe okay we must first pay attention it takes a maturity it takes a place inside of you just to watch things will come to you which these things are not coming yet when when you're not in that state you're trying to force a change this is also part of what happens many times in the positive side of using psychedelics there is a watching not a change yet right there is just a moment of hey look what's going on here it gives you a different

perspective and that can be cultivated don't need psychedelics You can do it in any moment. But it's not something that we are promoted or educated. Sit up straight. Chew with your mouth closed. This didn't help anyone's posture any time anywhere in history. Right. It only brought tension.

It's not a good posture. You see I slouch in the chair. This is a perfect posture. There is no issue with that. Posture is not an external position. Posture is a capacity, is an organizational capacity. It's like a candle flame. You're not going to stop the candle flame and tell it,

no, now you're in the right spot. My body is alive so I can sit like this with no issue. Or, as I do, sometimes in retreats, sit upright for 12 hours a day, in meditation without moving. And there will be no issue as well. So the posture of the meditation is not necessarily better or worse. But how do you gain that?

Well, first step is to start to watch, to keep the watchful tower, what we said before. Not just to become immersed in every activity, but to pay attention. That's very interesting. So if you can do that, pay attention and put perspective on what you're naturally doing

without trying to force a change, without trying to change the way you are perceived. Just that will naturally open up insights that will... Transform the way you do those things. Whether you think it's good or bad, it's ultimately the right thing. Correct. Here, let's make an experiment. Okay.

you are seated right now that you know but you haven't observed it until now right those are two different things knowing is a switch that we flipped in the past and it stayed flipped i know i'm in a chair but it doesn't mean that i observe i'm in a chair even now when i tell you you observe in the chair pay attention which seatbone receives more weight the left or the right seat bone it's equal is it equal pretty equal impossible investigate deeper just take a moment don't don't move don't do anything different okay try to see if there is a little bit more anywhere i want to say oh man it feels so equal okay okay i'm not i don't want you to gratify me yeah the reason why i said it's impossible to be equal physically you're a sack of liquids on a

spinning rock around the sun, it's not gonna be equal. Right. Coriolus effect, centrifugal forces, centripetal forces, gravity, everything is moving and the chair is soft. So if you tell me equal, you tell me from knowing. And when I ask you to observe, I ask you pay close attention. My left butchick is a bit lower than the right.

Really? Yeah, that's what I observe right now. when I paid attention, or which shoulder of yours is lower? Without moving, without changing. By right. Okay. I think.

Okay. That's the beginning. And when you observe this, when you did this little moment, something starts to change. It's a magic that you cannot do by equal your shoulder, equalize your shoulders. But you haven't even observed which shoulder.

So if you learn to do this, and again, it's not sexy, it will be for the select few at the moment that are willing to, it's equal opportunities. Everyone is invited, but it's not easy to do. Our lives took us somewhere else. Tell me what to do. How shall I sit? Yeah.

How shall I do it for my hamstrings? How can I open up my hamstring? Right, right. Okay, I help you to open up your hamstring. I can open up your hamstrings easily today. Give me $50,000. Yeah. First, give me $50,000.

Well, I'm more expensive than that, actually. But second, I will open them, but I will open a can of worms. Right. And in three months or three years after opening them, you will have a terrible injury in your lower back. And this is not connected in your brain. Oh, I met this amazing teacher and he really helped me with my hamstrings. You don't even connect it. But what I'm offering in terms of observation and placing yourself in certain practices

which are not trying to push you into a direction, it's not trying to put you in a position. It's not trying to make you do this. It's open scenario in which you have to handle yourself. You have to find yourself within those constraints. I feel like you need curveballs throwing out you too. The first time I ever started to like pay attention to any of this stuff was when I had my first baby and I would have to stay up for hours holding the baby at night because he would cry. And I was starting to have extreme back pain in my lower back, like sciatic back pain to where it was almost unbearable to get out of bed at one point. And I did not know what to do.

I was probably, I was in like my mid, late 20. and I was like, I should not be dealing with this right now. I'm way too young for this. And I started paying attention very closely to how I was standing, how tight my glutes were flexed, like how my scapula was. And I started to, I watched some videos on like scapula movements and stuff like that. I learned about the scapula pull-ups where you just use your scapula. You don't flex any muscles except for your scapula.

And like, I learned- It probably came from me. It probably did. Yeah. It probably did. It's like years ago I created this hanging challenge where I didn't invent hanging, but it was not popular. And then it went viral.

Joe Rogan, everyone were starting to do it. And we started, it spreads like wildfire. I received hundreds, thousands of thank you letters of people who were scheduled for surgery. So one of them was this active hangs, we call them, scapular pull-ups. And it wasn't popular. People were doing pull-ups, but they were not doing much hanging. work right and that is very potent yeah other example of it oh yeah the right practice yeah i was focusing a lot on my scapula and like the

scapula pull-ups with the hangs and as well like scapula push-ups great as well and um you know like things that are just so frustrating because you don't feel it you don't feel any benefit from it it's just like this feels so weird but it's got to be good and um you know a bunch of other little things like that i did and then just like you know it's kind of like all making sense to me right now, like what you're saying, because when you're, when I was holding the baby for so long, that forced me to have to focus on, beautiful. On like different little parts of my body and like how they felt and where they were. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing. And I'm happy that you, you had the baby and that you've had, and that it gave you, it gave you a practice.

Especially long nights, the discs are a bit more dried up. You wake up in the middle of the night. Yeah. And then you're in all kinds of half asleep, you know, situations. And then people often get injured. And then the other side of all this, which is important to marry, is that observing something, sensing something, is almost the same.

as releasing something releasing tension from that thing there are two things two faces of the same thing so when i ask you to pay attention to your seatbones and you tell me they're equal and i know logically that they're not equal it makes me think that there is a huge amount of tension around your pelvis which you already reported yeah which means you cannot even sense what's going on there soften up by sensing the reverse yeah so as you will pay attention to your left shoulder for example if I will now force you to pay attention to the left shoulder for a period of 20 minutes I'll guide you with eyes closed and you were and you will be in a good state fueled with all the drinks you have outside nicotine

modafinil whatever you need and let's say you you 20 minutes really go into it you be shocked absolutely shocked to find out what will happen with your shoulder wow what we what will it do to you but because we don't have the power the excess concentration it's it feels weak to us like you said i cannot even feel what this is doing to me but it did interesting all the best things in life are moving away from us the delicate things that are powerful to transform our lives, we desensitized ourselves. So all the beautiful tools are moving away from us.

These ideas are not going to be popular. What is popular has to be sexy, strong like this. And I've manipulated in the past. I can take my shirt off, show my six pack, do a handstand, lift a heavy weight, talk the talk. But the beautiful fine things are moving away from us, potent things. What are your thoughts on performance enhancing drugs?

Because I know a lot of NFL players take it. They specifically... Everybody takes. They get exemptions. Oh, of course. I mean, any top level athlete in any sport, I'm sure, is on some kind of performance enhancing drug. And there's so many different ones, right?

Like if you're... Did you see the enhanced games? I heard, I didn't watch it, but I heard a lot about it. You heard about the results? No. They were poor. They were poor? They were poor.

Interesting. Yeah, they expected, you know, world records to be broken right and left. No, it didn't happen. Really? They got to be, Michael Phelps' record wasn't broken? There was something, one record was broken in the swimming pool, and even that was, you know, like arguable, et cetera. What does it tell you?

Yeah, it doesn't do much. It does, but what does it tell you? Well, if now in the enhanced games, everybody's enhanced. And they're not, you know. They're more jacked. Seemingly, but what does it tell you about our records, our current records already? I don't know. What does it tell us? That they were already enhanced. They were already enhanced. They were just better

hiding it. Let's say, okay, we caught Ben Johnson right back in the day, Sprinter, that he was enhanced and he broke the record and they took away the record from him. Because he was enhanced, he was caught on roids. Many other, athletes right what about those we didn't catch what we caught everyone right so do you agree that some of the records yeah were in hand if the records are enhanced how are you going to break the records how are you going to participate in the game how are you going to do this it's forced i heard that with um with like how they did that with lance armstrong like if they did that to him they they had to do that for the next 20 people in line

because they were all doing this stuff to some level. Yeah, this stuff is a trap that we are, and you know what? That's what we're talking about earlier, nature. Correct. People have been doing this,

manipulating their physiology with drugs since the beginning of written history. It's connected to us. There is no separation. What is food? Food is not a manipulation. I don't wanna be dependent on this. You're depending on air,

you're depending on food. you're depending on a smile, you're depending on human contact. It's ridiculous. We've lost sight of it. At the same time, don't use it as an excuse. Exactly. Take responsibility. But we are dependent.

Here in life, in this reality, we depend on shit. Everything. We depend on each other. We depend on. So I think it's an immature, it's a childish thing to say that. to condemn people for it to condemn people and to say i'm not going to you know i don't want to be like for example caffeine i went many times off of caffeine for this process for that process and i only drink twice a day caffeine but i drink it from a young age relatively let's say

16 years old or something not something uncommon and at a certain point in time i thought i don't want to depend on this and this what do you find out. You don't depend on this, you depend on that. You go to the next thing. Exactly. You go to the next and eventually you see it's just a childish thought. It's an interesting exercise though to think things that you think you depend on like coffee or things like that or whatever it might be. Maybe it's nicotine, maybe it's energy drinks or whatever. If you can try to stop doing that stuff for like any period of time, I mean I'm sure it depends on person to person.

I'm sure people react differently to that kind of stuff. But I feel like overall, that's probably a good thing. Like take a week break. If you go on vacation, don't bring your nicotine pouches with you or your cigarettes with you or whatever that thing might be. My thing is to say great practice, but don't confuse it with now being a person that does not depend. That's the illusion. Yes.

Great practice. Go off of nicotine, go off of caffeine. But don't think your shit doesn't stink. Yes. It's just a great practice for you as a human being, but you're still depending on something else. And you know what? Going off of this, you depend more on something else.

Almost immediately. Almost immediately. What happens to people who go off nicotine? They develop a million other addictions. Do they really? Of course. It's just changing the tools on the board. Yeah.

You're just moving the tools on the board. First, they try maybe with more caffeine. Others, food, they gain weight. Go of nicotine, they gain weight. It's a replacement. It's not a deep change, a real change. So it's a good practice to come off of things. I'm not condemning that, but I'm also not,

I don't think that it is what it's often promoted to be. Yeah. Well, some people like to be purists. You know, some people like to shun anyone who takes any kind of like performance-enhancing drugs or any kind of, you know, I don't drink coffee. All I drink is water, purified, distilled water. And, you know, I only drink, you know, I only eat wild game. And that's it.

I don't ever sip any alcohol. I don't do anything out of that stuff. And they kind of like turn their nose up to people who do. The we versus us thing, which that's also have been my error many years. Them versus we. Even when you are already employing the change that you want to see in the world, it's still, it was an error to do that and not to say we,

to take the deep responsibility, even when employing it. We're not different. We're all addicted. It's part of the human condition. We depend. We're all manipulators. We're all judging. all we do is judge and i place my hand on here my my nervous system is judging and trying to compare how will it will it feel to the actual thing that is incoming yeah it's all part of it we're not

better than that so an awareness to that is the only thing that we can bring so it's we it's not them yeah yeah for sure is there any is there any kind of like supplements or anything like that or any kind of things that you like. I love supplements. I love supplements. When they're supplementing. Yeah. When they're supplementing if you have like for me the practitioner deserves to supplement. If you are out there practicing, doing working on yourself, use supplementation if it's a system. But it's a slippery slope and can be tricky at times. We have to find out what is what and it's a deep investigation. There is no general recommendations to be made beyond a few very basic things.

Is there any, let me put it this way, are there any cheats you like to use to help yourself with what you do? All the time. What specific ones that you can talk about? Minerals, you know, it's simple, nothing sexy. I'll use nicotine. Sometimes I'll use, it's a nice thing. I'm not, it's not a common thing for me, but I'll use it or, but I, the other, which I always have is I'm going to practice now. I take never for just feeling good. Like even for example, now I don't use nicotine to do this podcast.

But when I really go to my deep practice. You want some, I got some. When I'll go to my practice and if I feel like I will use this assistance to help me practice deeper i'll use it not as an excuse to practice and not as a relying thing and then it can be a great supplement so for you for example it makes sense to use nicotine while doing this if it helps you to get a better conversation a deeper more meaningful thing to support long form content like this it's not easy to to stay focused to stay so that makes sense but for me this is not so much my

practice this is easy for me yeah yeah for sure I've experimented with so many different things, like so many different supplements, so many different like diets, so many different like routines and everything, like to figure out like the optimal way for me to do stuff. And what does help do? I just love experimenting with that kind of stuff

to see how it affects my body. You see how it affects my energy levels and all that kind of stuff. I'm the same. And I've been doing it for so long. I can almost tell when I wake up in the morning exactly what I'm going to need to get through the day. You know what I mean?

Like depending on how much sleep, depending on how I feel. I could literally like wake up, drink some water, go for a walk and like have a full cup of energy for the whole day. Some days I'll need like tons of espresso, tons of energy drinks, nicotine pouches, all that stuff. And, you know, it's like, like you said, you know, we're, we're not constant. We're always in this like fluctuation.

Flux, right? We're this bad, chemical bags. And there's never one static state. It's always different. But, but. It's just knowing where you. you are but but another question to ask is have you had days where you woke up and you didn't have that energy and you didn't use those assistance those supplements and it turned out to be a good day yeah

so there is only when i didn't have access to him though oh yeah i never chose i'm gonna i'm i'm gonna raw dog today i never did that that that is that is honest and and and and and nice of you to say and also for the others to hear, but it's not important. Okay. The point is you have a foot in the door. There is a third possibility. Not one, I'm full of energy, I don't need much.

Two, I'm not full of energy, I have to have assistance. There is a third possibility. I don't have energy and I'm not going to use assistance and I find a way, another way. That's the investigation. That's the observation. Yeah. And when you explore your shitty state that you're in.

Yeah, because that shitty state is not much different than the good state really. It is not that different. When you really observe, when you really pay attention, you're not afraid of it anymore. The fear of the fear is larger than the fear itself. it's the anxiousness of like I can't go through this day I'm drained it's a placebo it's a it's a self-licking ice cream cone yeah and and and there I don't say never use nicotine or give you

but also sometimes try to engage in this investigation it will give you something great insights but don't suffer through it for nothing suffer consciously in essence pay attention yeah observe for example what is this that you don't feel well now what is that thing that you don't feel well what is it pay attention is it something in the stomach is it in the chest where is it where is the fatigue is it a muscular tension take it down to the components to the physical components what can you tell me about it Right. Is it a contraction inside your stomach?

Is it a pressure in the chest? Is it a taste in the mouth? When you do this game and you observe and you pay attention, you start to open it and what do you discover? It disappears many times. That's interesting. I've never tried that. Which is funny how we go through our lives.

It's funny how when you, because it is true for sure. If I wake up and for example, I'm a little bit extra sleepy, I could feel like, oh man, I didn't get a lot of sleep. I'm probably going to be in a shitty mood today. And that will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah. Instead of exploring like, what exactly is it? What is that shitty mood?

And when you go into it, even to go into it, you immediately distance yourself from it because you're watching it. You don't immerse. You want flow state? what does it mean you want the flow state but now you have the the other problem flow state that you are immersed in shit right because we mechanicalize and automize the good stuff we also mechanicalize and automize the bad stuff so now we only know we don't know how to observe we don't know how to be present so it's it also drags us into those shitty moods and we become

that shitty mood it's so weird you feel so horrible yet you don't even feel that you don't observe that so it's more the feeling of the feeling of the feeling it's something that rolls away the moment you go into it as sam harris once said i can't bear the pain you're already bearing it it's you as you're screaming i can't bear the pain i'm in a shitty mood stop for a moment pay attention take a moment of silence take a walk what what is it here in my stomach right now that I feel and as you practice this more and more you will be you will receive so much for it is this something you gain from this is this a skill that you get from doing a lot of meditation like being able to

focus on these things does it become easier the more you do it it comes with the practice for me it's all one thing practice gotcha meditation is a flavor of the practice where for example seated meditation it yeah you can sit there and to observe but what happens when you'll go to a restaurant with your partner or something then the skill will be different so i prefer to practice in many ways but the big part of my practice is meditation the seated practice as well the seated practice like the word meditation is meaningless these days it has been abused okay i see There are many things inside, all kinds of practices, concentration practices, focus practices,

embodiment practices. The word is meaningless. It's like the word movement. It's meaningless. Fitness, meaningless. Fit for what? Fit for skateboard? That means drinking hard liquor sometimes and smoking.

Sometimes that's what you need. For that artistic behavior. So fitness is distorted. All these words are distorted. Yeah. So meditation is similar in that way. I think it is a very potent practice for us these days, as it always was. But I think there are many bridges, bridging practices that are needed in many different flavors of being present.

Mm-hmm. Being in that presence. It's very interesting. It's very interesting because it's like, it's kind of. connecting a lot of dots for me in like different realms or different different like skills or if you notice like different talents too like for example there's a lot of people who whether it be in music or art a lot of like the most successful or like world renowned artists or like thinkers or writers or creative people in general a lot of them at

their peaks were like heavily on drugs, whether it be alcohol, psychedelics, cocaine, you name it, all these people were blasted on drugs during the peak of their creativity or whatever it is they're creating. It's not really, I don't think it's a one-to-one to like movement and athletics and those types of skills, but there's something to be said that with what you're doing with athletes is similar to what drugs are doing to these people in the creative arts. It's sort of interesting. I've never heard this before. Interesting way to look at it.

Because it's interesting. Well, it's getting them off like the, it's getting them off their normal pattern of thinking, right? These athletes, these athletes aren't going to go to drugs. They're too worried about their body. They're too worrying about being fit. Some go, but yeah. There's a price to it also.

Right. But like there's no, and it's regulated. Also like, big sports, NFL and NBA and all those things. Like, but when you're talking about someone who's a fucking painter or a hip hop artist or a rock and roll musician or guitarist there's no that's not regulated these guys stay up all night doing drugs and just pulling stuff out of the air and putting it on paper or putting it into music and there's something to be said about like maybe that different way of thinking about things and not putting it into this like rigidized framework that most people look at it in you know and you're i feel like you're kind of like a psychedelic for athletes

Edo is like a psychedelic drug for athletes to take wow it's it's a it's a perspective i haven't looked through like in this way not looked at myself yeah there is something about the rigidity like like you've pointed out that is like a killer the mechanicality the automatism this thing that is a very very important theme in our life lives not just to do not just to be successful who is doing yeah exactly how i'm doing is not to it's not an it's not a means to an end yes yes just like these like that's why that's why i said practice should not have a reason now you understand Picasso didn't do what he did for exactly exactly so it's pure and that represents choice one of the things which are two

freaking us you reap what you saw no that's a lie tell that to the three-year-old who got cancer right how does that sit with our reality come on oversimplified childish immature damaging you don't reap what you saw sometimes you reap what you saw other times you don't for this it is said in the Bible evil men shall receive all the treasures of the world and the saint shall receive the opposite sometimes why so you can actually choose so your choice is pure because if you chose to receive X Y Z you're distorted again right so the practice should not have a reason if the side effects come to you they come to you for example i've worked with the human body and also with health to a certain degree i'm not the

health guy i'm not the longevity guy i've damaged my health i've you can see my face i've spent my life in the sun in the wind in the salt water in the i have i've damaged myself in discovery in practice i don't know i didn't discover what is a moisturizer until i was 40 something i i don't I couldn't care less. I didn't want to pursue this for X, Y, Z. So when I found myself, I'm practicing to have a beautiful body. I took it away for myself. Then I practiced to move beautifully.

I took away that for myself. I stopped moving beautifully. People say, oh, what a beautiful movement you have. What a beautiful body you have. Okay, what a beautiful movement you have. took it away so i move for health took it away so it becomes for me no reason right no reason not even that for me is not really a reason it's something beyond and i think this is important that we have this sacred thing in ourselves in our lives that is not damaged by the goals yeah desires

what are we what are we going to get yeah you know what can you do for me yeah i think you're right said, you know, thank you for doing this, man. That's a great way to wrap this up. This has been super phone. It was fun. Thank you so much. I'm happy I came. I appreciate your time very much. Thank you. Is there anything else we can tell folks about how to learn more about what you do, what you talk about or where to find you? They can find me. It's easy. My name is Unique. You think probably the only one on earth. Yeah, there are a few more, but yeah. Perfect. All right, man. I think you have like an Instagram. We'll link that below. And if your website, we'll link that below as well. But thank you. I really appreciate it.

Thank you very much. All right. Good night, everybody.