Danny Jones Podcast - #42 Porn | Maria Ahlin

Episode Date: May 19, 2020

Today’s episode is about Porn!  Maria Ahlin is a public speaker, author, and also the head of the youth organization 'Changing attitudes'. Maria’s goal is to challenge old beliefs and myths about porn, - a subject many would avoid discussing at almost any cost. As an expert on issues concerning pornography and sex-buying she has given more than 400 public talks, she’s met with more than 500 people in prostitution, as well as thousands of sex-offenders who have ended up in prison.  Follow Maria here:  https://www.instagram.com/ahlinmaria Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, world. Thank you for pressing play on episode number 61 of the Concrete Podcast. Today's episode is all about porn, and our guest is Maria Aline. Maria is a public speaker, author, and also the head of a youth organization called Changing Attitudes. As an expert on issues concerning pornography and sex buying, she's given more than 400 public talks, including a TED Talk. She's met with over 500 people in prostitution, as well as thousands of sex. who have ended up in prisons. By inspiring more of a public conversation about porn, she's challenging old beliefs and myths

by replacing them with facts, science, and real-life stories. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy this super informative and fun chat with Maria Aline. It's good to finally talk to you. You too. Are you in Stockholm or where are you? Yeah, I'm kind of in Stockholm. I'm in town called Uppsala.

Okay. It's close to Stockholm, but it's not Stockholm. but it's very yeah very close okay i just managed to get back from i was in l.a when kind of yeah like i got back from l.a a week before the corona virus hits basically yeah so i just managed to get back home sweet sweden's dealing with this thing way different than the rest of the world is how's that what is that like actually it's i think you know there's a lot of headlines and you know stuff being said and written, but it's really, I would say it's handled quite well here. I mean, because the thing is that if the Swedish government tells the Swedish people

that you need to do this and this, people are actually going to do it. So it's, I mean, when the Swedish government gives a recommendation, it's not like something people don't care about, like they really listen. So it's basically like, you know, having a law, you know, for it. So people actually listen. So I think, yeah. Yeah, people trust the government over there more than they do here. Yes, that's exactly what it is.

Yes, for sure. And I'm actually Norwegian, so I feel like I can be like objective. And like see, yeah, if it's working or not. But I actually think Sweden is doing quite a good job. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, I read a few things about it. And it seems like some of the stuff they have or some of the rules at least that they have in place are really similar to what we have here.

I'm in Florida. by the way. And Florida, I mean, they have a lot of strict legal restrictions that you're supposed to follow, but most people aren't really following them. And it sounds almost like, in a way, Sweden's rules are probably just as effective as what's going on where I am right now. It's just people here are just pushing it way harder than they should be. Right. Right. And here it's not really necessary to push it that hard because like, if the prime minister says something, everyone is like, okay. Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, you're right. So you're in Florida. Yeah, yeah, Florida. Yep. I was so jealous. It's very different from your part of the world. Yeah. Extremely different. No, today is like so just gray. It's almost like purple. Like it's so gray. I mean, yeah. I'm like, I need some sun. So I've listened to a couple of your talks. Your TED talk, by the way, I have to ask. I have to ask you how the hell you were able to explain the meaning of ass to mouth to an auditorium full of professional people like that. I would actually say that's like that's like years of

like experience. Okay. Have to give credit to the years of experience because I'm not really like I'm not bothered by it. You know? Right. No, but it just, it just, it's. It's just, it's It takes a lot. It's like, it's like, it's like, you need some poker face going on for sure. But it's like I don't really, I don't really. I don't know. I don't think like what's the big deal? Like it's we got to talk about it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said that you have, you've interviewed a lot of porn performers and people in the industry. Basically the thought that I was trying to get across was that a lot of famous porn stars or. widely known porn performers come from really challenging backgrounds and really rough childhoods like stripping or being a porn star can bring in a lot of money and it seems like a really appetizing thing and a really obvious solution to get out of those terrible situations as a

child because you can make a lot of money doing those things right yeah have you noticed anything like that have you noticing similar backgrounds to people you've talked to yeah for sure um and i kind of like before I went in and did started doing interviews with people in porn, I was kind of, I was kind of like thinking back to the people I met in, in classic prostitution. And still, like, even though, like, I've worked with this issue for years, I was still actually expecting a higher standard when it came to the people in porn, like, in terms of their living conditions and in terms of the money they were making. And just, like, yeah, I was just expecting more glam, I guess, more glam, more glam more money more Hollywood more you know red carpets but it's I would say obviously there are people

making a lot of money in porn for sure but the majority they won't even last for a year you know like it's so it will be like a quick in and out and the money won't be that much really uh to the majority and when it comes to the challenging backgrounds I would say yeah I do agree to some extent that it is um unfortunately that's like because even i was like oh i i i want to be wrong you know i don't want to have this this like this is what i think i'm going to meet you know and then everything is just going to tick my boxes so i was like prove me wrong but obviously i have heard you know some horror stories when it comes to people in porn um why they entered uh their childhood growing up in poverty, growing up in perhaps homelessness,

being victims of abuse, physical, sexual, foster care, like all of these factors are, yeah, they are irrelevant. And yeah, for sure. And I would also say, like, one of the perhaps key factors when it comes to entering porn or prostitution or, you know, whatever, is the sexual abuse, like the trauma, the undealt with trauma. So that is a key factor to joining porn, I think. And the trauma...

Sorry, I just... Do you hear my dog in the background? Yeah, I hear him. I think it's hilarious. What kind of dog is it? It's a cavalier. We don't have to edit this so much. No, we'll leave it in.

You should put him in the chair right behind you that we could see him. See, I actually gave him like... I gave him a talk. I was like, dude, buddy, please. Please, just be quiet. Would he? Yeah, but no, it seems like porn performers are treated like, at least by the agents or the producers in the industry as just like sex objects with an expiration date. And the expiration date is really soon.

Right. Right. I mean, yes. That's, I've heard producers say that, actually, talking about it as to like bringing in fresh meat. You know, they want to offer something new to the consumer. And once the consumer is kind of fed up with that, then, you know, she or he is gone. And then, you know, off to the next one. So yes, it is, it seems to be, you know, quite a, you know, quick in and out for, for most people.

Yeah. Is there, is that industry big in Sweden? Or was that mainly in L.A. where you were doing all that research? Yeah, that was mainly in L.A. and in Vegas. Yeah. LA and Vegas. Yeah.

But it exists in Sweden, for sure, but not to that extent at all. I think like we have more, more porn production here than people are aware of, but still compared to what you guys have in the U.S., like it's nothing. Yeah. L.A. is such a crazy place. Yeah, it is. I think we all could agree on that. but there's just something like it's so i don't know if it's like cheesy but i absolutely love

it like it's just so you really i adore it yes i do and my favorite part actually is downtown and everyone keeps telling me like oh you can't be there it's dangerous and i'm like but it's where the i think most authentic people are you know because it's so much homelessness and so many people with you know difficulties but to like sit down and have a conversation with one of them it's like to me that's like the most rewarding yeah my best memories from relay are from like conversations downtown uh really yes for sure yes i would not the amount of homeless people there is insane it's absurd it's like nothing else it's like nowhere else yeah you're right and to me i get so like i know it's a bit perhaps um i don't know

naive you could call it but to me I'm like how is this not fixable you know it's not like it's a million people in homelessness like it's still an amount of people that you know it should be possible to handle this to to offer housing and provide support yeah yeah especially during something like the coronavirus it's yeah it's got to make it so much worse from your research how does porn today have an effect on society in general? In your opinion? I would say porn really kind of leaks into different parts of society today. It obviously affects kids and youth when it comes to the early exposure.

So many kids and youth are exposed to porn at such a young age, but they haven't even had a conversation about sex and relationships with any adults yet. So porn really beats the adults to it when it comes to that. So, and I mean, obviously it's affecting relationships, you know, when it comes to like expectations. And also like the stories that I've heard from especially young people explaining to me that like, oh, you know, I compare myself to what I see in porn and I think I need to do this and I need to do that. And, you know, I'm supposed to look like this or that. And my partner isn't hot enough or isn't, you know, doing it. this or this. And so it's a lot of pressure, I think, on many young people today since porn

is currently, I would say, the one and only player right now really setting the standards for our sexuality and for our, you know, expectations of ourselves and each other. Do you talk to parents at all and ask them how they deal with it and how are they dealing with it in a way that is either effective or not? Yeah. Yeah, I do. This is interesting because I always see that, because whenever, let's say I've been to a school. So I've talked to the students all day and then during the night, I get to meet the parents. And it's so interesting because when I'm in a classroom talking to students, they will be totally open and honest and they will share and they will be ready to talk about it as if it's actually affecting them.

They will share their own experiences. However, when I'm meeting a more adult group, I always have to talk about kids and youth. You know, if I'm going to go into talking about like grownups consuming porn, that's more sensitive to them. I find that kids and youth are more brave when it comes to talking about this. But I wouldn't count the adults out for sure not. I mean, I've had so many good meetings and just like, yeah, meeting adults who are very much on fire for talking about this. But the thing is, I think they want to talk about it if they are aware of the fact that kids are actually, you know, consuming porn, but they don't know how to do it.

So it's, and too many, I think it's a fear when it comes to, oh, you know, my child is only eight or nine or ten. And I don't want to wake a sleeping bear, you know? So I'm like not saying anything. And then when the kid is like 16, 17, I'm like, have you heard of condoms? You know? So it's just like the gap is just like too massive. But I do think parents want to do this for sure. But I do also think we need to equip parents and we need to give them our facts and tools and just like the confidence to talk about this.

What do you tell them? Like, how do you tell parents to talk to their kids about porn? Say you have, I don't know how early kids are getting access to it, but I know kids are getting iPhones, you know, before the age of 10 probably. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I would say most of the kids and youth that I've spoken to and, you know, done interviews with as well has been, um, six, between six and nine has been like the average age of the first exposure. That's what I've been told. but obviously it's not really it's not that interesting when you're eight you know

but once you get puberty then obviously it's going to be more interesting so 12 is like the average age for guys to watch porn and a bit under 14 seem to be the average age for for girls and so so what do you tell the parents what kind of advice do you give them okay so I would tell you um I would tell you to actually just do it. Like I would say just

just do it. Like you actually don't need to feel like you have to know everything and have, even though like obviously having facts and being knowledgeable in this area is obviously going to help you. But if you do not know anything about it,

just like raise the topic. Ask questions. And I will also say like be smart about it. Like put on your poker face and perhaps ask a question, not directly to your kid about your kid, but perhaps ask a question about that kid's, you know, friends and classmates

and be like, you know, oh, you know, do you know if you have any friends who have perhaps seen anything online that was a bit, you know, did you see anything you kind of reacted to? And I would also like not exclude like the fun parts online, you know, like to not be all, you know, be so careful and everything is bad, you know,

but to really like highlight the good stuff as well. to also say to a kid that, you know, can we just sit down for an hour and you could show me, like, what do you do online? So what's like your favorite thing that you've ever seen? What's the most funny thing you've ever seen? Have you seen anything that scared you? Have you seen anything that, you know, you lost sleepover to kind of like include all of the, the good and the bad, really?

And if the kid is really young, just kind of make it a conversation about like online activities. social media, just being aware. Like, this is also content you could come across. A hard thing is that kids, young kids are always looking for thrills and just find the craziest thing they've ever seen online. Yeah. And the bad part about the porn industry, I mean, well, it's like any entertainment industry, really, is that entertainment's always trying to push the envelope and push it to the next level.

Yeah. And come up with like the next thing that people are going to be like, what the fuck and there's gonna be some freaks out there some crazy psychos that like oh yeah they're really into it and then enjoy it I mean it's all it all depends on their psychology yeah absolutely

but that's the thing that they're never going to stop pushing the envelope on it and they're never going to just keep evolving it right right and I mean the shock factor obviously is triggering like you're saying and that has to do with like how the brain works because the brain is going to be, you know, shocked when it sees something new and something exciting and even something that will make you arouse.

Like all of those components makes for a perfect, you know, dish. So really, I would say to also as a parent to be aware of the fact that your kid, if your kid, let's say you have a 13-year-old who you probably, like you know that this person is or this child is addicted to pornography or like it's consuming it a lot. I would say to that parent, like, be really careful about, like, not judging that kid. Because, you know, that brain works perfectly, you know, because that brain responds to what is being presented online on these major porn sites. And if you get addicted, that is like, that's a normal reaction to watching porn a lot. You know, it's not, you're not strange.

You don't have a bad character or, you know, a lack of morals, you know, like you're actually, normal. So to kind of, yeah, be aware of when it comes to shaming and like guilt tripping, I would say avoid that as much as you can because, and you know, because we got to remember like the porn industry, it's not run and it's not set up and it's not like, I mean, it's not being produced by kids, right? Right. Like it's being produced by adults. So we are the one who needs to then carry that responsibility. That study that was done by the, by Cambridge, there was a couple of researchers from Cambridge where they studied the brain activity between drug addicts and people who were porn addicts.

And they compared, they compared them to healthy volunteers, whatever. And they noticed that there was the three regions in the brain that like lit up. And it was almost identical between the drug addicts and the porn addicts. Yeah. It affected them the same way. It could be treated as an addiction. Yeah. And the crazy part about it.

was they even went deeper to find out why don't humans stop doing something when they know that it's either physically or psychologically damaging to them. And the part about like how it's not, you're doing something despite the fact that you, like you don't even like it. Yeah. Compulsive behavior. Like it was just like smoking cigarettes or overeating or snorting Coke or any of those things.

You know that they're terrible for you and they could kill you. but you still do it anyways. And that speaks so much to how, like, how this material would, like, how it actually affects the brain, like, how similar to drugs it really is. Because the brain can't really tell the difference because, I mean, we have one reward system. That's all we got, you know? So that reward system can be hijacked by basically anything that will give you

pleasure. But then obviously, you know, we are going to be like more, we're going to experience more, you know, a more, you know, a greater high, more kicks. We're going to get more kicks out of watching porn than, you know, taking walks or whatever, you know, like it's, and the same with cooking, you know, that's going to be more effective when it comes to getting you hooked than, let's say, other more, you know, weed or whatever. So, yeah.

And another thing to consider is, you know, they're swiping through. tender and they're not thinking clearly because they want to find sex or they're super horny and they want to get with somebody who they may not like or they may not eat they may not love they may not even like them but they think they're hot because they're super horny and they're not thinking clearly because of that so maybe they should just watch some porn and get it out of their system right that's another thing to consider yeah sure that's that's why a lot of people could end up in relationships with in relationships with people they don't like or they don't love What? Because. Because they're both, they both just love sex and they both provide that reward for each other, but they may not love each other. They just ended up in that situation because it was convenient for both of them. Right, right. Okay. Yeah. Because you don't, you don't really think clearly when you're, when you're, when you have that energy and you're like super, all you're thinking about is sex. I mean, that happens to everybody. So when you do that, you don't think rational. Right. And you end up in those relationships like that. And you realize 20 years down the road, fuck, we don't even like each other. Right. We just like to fuck. Right. Right. Right. You can't make sense. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So instead of Johnny going out on 100 Tinder dates in a year and risking catching an STD, instead he just wants to watch some porn and get it out of a system. Sure.

It's another thing to consider. I mean, yeah, sure. I've heard that, you know, a lot. Then I would say to Johnny, like, dude, there are more options than, you know, a careless relationship for 20 years or porn. Like, yeah, you have some other things you can choose between as well. It's not your only two options. Yeah, definitely. If I'm going to, like, be, you know, let me be tough on you then and say, like, is it, because if that's the cure.

to unhealthy relationship if the cure is porn, you know? I mean, wouldn't then the porn problem be fixed once you have a good relationship? Are, you know, are there no people in good relationships consuming porn? You'd want to connect with them on more levels than sex. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people, especially kids, teenagers, people in their in their 20s, they're not thinking like that. They're just thinking with that one part of their brain. And if you could sort of get that out of the way, it changes your thinking. You believe that? Yeah, 100% I believe that.

Yeah? Uh-huh. Okay, explain that one more time. Like, what are you actually saying? What are you thinking that porn can kind of cure? I don't think it's necessarily porn itself that can cure that. but what I'm saying is people that you think are hot and you think you like because you're being blinded by horniness or whatever you want to call it. Instead, you just watch some porn and you masturbate and instantly that feeling is gone.

Right. And now you're like, what was I thinking? Why would I? I don't even like this person. Right. Like I just wanted to have sex. I wanted to get that out of my system. Yeah.

I think a lot of people deal with that problem. Yeah. For sure. Like, I hear that all the time. And not saying porn is the answer. I'm definitely not saying porn is the answer. But it's obviously it's the easiest solution. Right.

It's the most obvious thing to go to. It's so available to you. Yeah. And like, there are different factors to that. Like, one for sure, that can be true. The other, I would say to just consider is to also like, again, like, are those to two, the only two options that you have, you know? are there other ways to kind of enhance your life and to like

use your imagination yeah or just like read a book like there are other things when you do but also there's a fact of like because that has to be considered as well obviously if what we were saying earlier about you know the backgrounds when it comes to people in porn if that in fact is the case like is that fair to like have a group of people that we can kind of like take our urges out on you know what i mean explain that one more time so instead of me going out and having you know sex with 100 different people via tinder i'm going to go online and you know jerk off to some porn but then i'm what i'm saying is that is that fair to people in porn to like have that you know have a group of people that you're

like it's fine if you're in porn you know you can be important for my sake you know Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Are we kind of ready? Like, do we want to, like, sacrifice this group of people? Since we do know the backgrounds they come from, like, are we like okay with, you know what I mean? Using them for our own, you know, yeah, salvation, gender. Yeah. I know what you mean.

But it's kind of like, this is the way society works and it's the way the world works. Those people are there because they're desperate. I feel like people become porn stars because they're desperate in a situation where they finally make that leap. Right. Not just porn stars. Strippers are prostitutes. Right. They're desperate for something.

And the most obvious way to get independence and to get financial success at that moment would be porn or prostitution or dancing at a strip club. Right. Um, you know, the, obviously there's a lot of long term, a long term, long term negative effects to it. And it comes with that, you know, people, you're going to have kids jerking off to your videos for years. And your kids, when you have kids and they go to high school, they're going to, or middle school, you're going to have all their friends asking you about their, your mom. And why they're all watching your mom have sex on their iPhones. So, you know, I don't think they think about that. They don't think about that in the moment, right?

In that moment, they're desperate for money or they're desperate for independence. And that's the answer. That's the easiest answer. That's also, like, interesting because I, you know, we do have, I would say like we, we do have somewhat of, you know, a porn culture in a way. Like it's like we were saying earlier, like it's leaking into different parts of society, it's leaking into media, advertisement, the fitness industry, like all of that. And so I find it.

I find it just like interesting, like we do have this culture where, you know, some people are going to be pushed into the porn industry or into other types of prostitution or, you know, and, but once they're in it, like, we're going to judge them. You know what I mean? Then we're going to be like, ooh, like, you're going to be online forever. Like, obviously, you're going to be online forever. But I'm like, what I'm trying to say is that. the society kind of opened that door

but once they entered we're you know we're willing to use porn but we're also judging the people in porn right you know so that's kind of what I I think it's so important because I do that's what I've heard so many people that I've talked to

in the industry say that like this girl actually told me she was like you're actually the first one to ask me to talk about this because I always just read tweets and you know whatever about me but no way nobody ever comes to me and actually ask these questions and she was really like explaining to me how she was really feeling a judged really by society but it's also the same society that will go behind closed

doors and watch her you know what I mean so when I'm talking about porn I'm very much talking about it from a standpoint of US and I'm on their side yeah you know know like yeah totally yeah so i'm like looking to like how did you end up here like but again i'm also i think it's like we got to take it one step further and not just look at um why and how people ended up in porn but also to see like who are you know who are the consumers what is happening in society what kind of attitudes are we kind of adapting from using aggressive porn and all of that so it's really we got to have all the all the pieces of There's a lot of porn performers, especially in L.A., I think, that have kind of ascended out of porn.

And they've kind of transitioned to like social media stars and become more accepted. I think, yeah, you're totally right. People look down on a porn star or like, oh, yeah, I could watch them on my phone, but I would never date one. Exactly. They've been with, look how many dudes she's been in gangbangs and all this other stuff. stuff. But what they don't consider is that probably any guy or girl in any nightclub in LA has probably been with 10 times more people that were not tested for STDs prior to having sex with them. Right. But it's the conception of the fact that you can see it. You can literally

watch it happening. And to me that is like that is kind of that's kind of like categorizing. That's kind of like categorizing women into two groups like one is the she's just a she's the wifey material you know like she's the girl can date and bring home to your mom right there's this girl in porn and you're like no no no she's a slut but still again as I'm saying behind closed doors you're still going to watch her you know right right oh like that's that's being a hypocrite totally yeah getting back to what I was talking about girls that have like reached gotten out of porn. Like they did it for so long and became so successful. They kind of like peaked interest of people like, oh, I have an Instagram or I have a Twitter. You can follow me on my own platforms.

Yeah. And they've kind of like become social media stars and and they make those, uh, those only fans accounts. Yeah. They kind of control everything. That's kind of like the way media, the media industry is going, I think anyways, because people who are creating are creating their own content now and being in, like they own their own stuff and they're able to monetize it. Yeah. their own way instead of being a slave to some porn producer or a porn agent that's just sending them across the country to go live in some producer's house for a week you know by they have to shoot 10 porn videos yeah for sure I think that's that's another you know that's a direction where we're headed for sure but I wouldn't count out the the shitty producers and the amount of people that

will still be attracted to that. Because you're still going to have people who are not, you know, they're not able or they're not, you know, they're in a desperate situation. They don't have time for Instagram. You know what I mean? So it's like to many people, it's actually about survival as well. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, we're going to see, we're going to see, I think we're going to see, to some extent, we're going to see that happening for sure more and more.

Yeah. And when you talk about aggression, what do you mean when you talk about aggression or aggression or, or violence in porn. Do you think that's something that is like ramping up or getting more prominent? I mean, if we're going to look at the studies that we have, we've kind of seen that trend for years, you know? It's not really, you know, aggression in porn is not that new.

I wouldn't say that. But yes. I mean, of course, it's going to be, like, I've talked to producers explaining to me that they actually, they get bored. This one guy was like, yeah, like, of course we're going to, you know, look at, like, how extreme can we make it? Because, like, it's not only the consumer that gets bored, we get bored as well. So, yeah, but, like, when it comes to aggression porn, it's a thing, and it's very, like, going back 15 years, the aggressive porn would have been, like, the straight. porn like the you know like the dark web porn kind of but now that is mainstream so I would say like that has kind of shifted like what has shifted is it's just the acceptance of aggression in porn

and the fact that now we don't even think of slapping someone or pulling someone's hair as aggression really you know that's just part of porn so like you know the boundaries are constantly being pushed but they're also constantly being nerd. Yeah. Yeah, there's almost no boundaries anymore. It's like blurred lines in between both. For sure.

Yeah. I think there was a quote from a porn producer saying that the only thing left to do to women in porn now is just, you know, killing them. Like that's, we've done it all. Yeah. And there are porn on that too. You know, snuff porn. That's the thing too. Yeah, what is it?

Wasps. Wasp after they mate the female eats the male? That's next for humans. Yeah, I guess. Like the spider. Oh, the spider, yeah, that's what it is. Yes. The widow.

Yeah. I mean, it's one thing if it was, I mean, porn is legal. Yeah. There's a lot of drugs that people use because they're hard to get and they're illegal. And it becomes more of a desirable thing because it's harder to get. Porn's not hard to get. Everybody can get it. So it's interesting why there's still such a problem with people being addicted to it.

But there's no real, there's no real alternative. There's nothing else like it that you can say is healthy. Right. Or isn't bad for you psychologically. Right. Exactly. And that's, you know, I would say like the whole like the existence of porn like to the amount of, you know, yeah, that we do see today.

I would say that is really like a slap in the face to any. you know, any country lacking sex education. Because what we do see in studies also is that kids and youth tend to look for porn when in fact what they're looking for is facts. You know, they want sex education. So that's, you know, that's a signal to all of us to step it up when it comes to sex education because, you know, the situation we're dealing with now is that we've gotten, we don't we don't you know sex education is really like like this you know it's not really um it's not

the same like if i look at sweden it's like we have some some parts of sweden who is doing a really good job and then you have other parts who aren't even talking about condoms so you know what i mean it's very russian roulette when it comes to sex education and i think that really leaves kids and youth alone with porn as the only sex educator so that's when we got to ask ourselves okay so if this our sex educator, if this is our teacher, what kind of, what mission does this teacher have? You know, what's the purpose? What curriculum is this teacher using and so on? So, yeah. The problem is there is no goals or anything. It's all about just more and more money for them. Exactly. Their goal is not to provide kids and youth great sex education. That is not what

most point producers are about, you know, they're about the money, as you're saying. And another thing to consider is that a lot of young people, probably mostly young girls, look up to people like Pam Anderson or Carmen Electra as like, oh, look at them now. They're celebrities. Right. Like they're big shots now. They're not porn. They're not porn stars anymore. So I could just be a porn star for a few years. And then I could have the goal of being like Pam Anderson one day. Yeah. For sure. And that also, I mean, that's, um, that also I think speaks to where we're at today when it comes to the normalization of porn because it really is so, you know, right next to mainstream media. I think it used to be more separated, you know, but now it really is

transitioning from porn to mainstream media, you know, it's not that hard. So what's the answer to this, Maria? You tell me. What is the answer? What is the answer? Um, I, I'm, as I'm saying in my TEDx talk as well, I'm really all about like education and conversation. I think that is just key. Like if we get to have a conversation and be critical and really like look at this from a fact point of view, I would say that is going to bring some solution to this because I do think, I do think like getting people aware will then enhance your ability to also make an informed decision. so I mean I'm not gonna and I can't do that I can go into your bedroom and be like I'm gonna stand here and watch and make sure you don't use some porn you know and I'm gonna be all night like I can't do that so and I don't want to do that so what I can do is I can provide you with the facts and then it's up to you do you want to continue to use porn then fine go ahead or do you want to like consider these facts and you know make an informed decision but yeah so I think facts and education is key um

And to really, like, bridge the gap between the adults, like, how, you know, parents are thinking about this. They perhaps, some are very aware and some are like, no, my kid is 15 and he or she has never even, like, kissed someone, you know? Like, the gap is perhaps too big sometimes to kind of bridge that. And then the sex education in school needs to, you know, we need to step that up for sure. and then I would say to and I'm doing that and I want to do that more to actually connect with people in the industry to actually see what are the pull factors and what are the actual the backgrounds and what are the you know the reality of porn yeah I think that yeah the younger years the hardwiring years I think are the most important years too and it's it's big you know a big part of the responsibility has to go to the parents on it too because a lot of parents they just are lazy or they don't it's it's a big part of the responsibility has to go to the parents on it too because a lot of parents they don't it's a If it makes them uncomfortable, they're going to resort to being lazy and they're just not going to do anything about it. Right. And I mean, I think we can kind of like, I can identify with that.

Like if something isn't comfortable, obviously it's going to, like my brain wants to opt out of that task or whatever, you know? But yeah. So, I mean, this is going to take an effort from all of us for sure. But I actually think like equipping parents with facts and getting them to really understand like, okay so first my kid is going to see porn maybe not tomorrow but perhaps it's here like that is going to happen to like you know that reality check of it and then also to to to equip parents to like you're saying like to dare to have that conversation um yeah that is that is key what do you have you have planned in the future after this sort of pandemic thing clears out what what have you

been doing what's your schedule like what do you what does your day consist of right which pandemic porn or corona oh both i don't know i mean obviously you said be at a beach yeah sorry you were living in l.A right i'm actually i'm kind of going back and forth between sweden l.a and actually thailand okay yes i've spent my winters in thailand for the last maybe five years or so for five years really yes wow what have you seen in in Thailand. Yeah. Although it's been like mainly like,

I'm combining it like work like from, from afar, like distance work and then vacation. But obviously Thailand is very, you know, with brothels. It's very extensive. And so you'll see,

yeah, you'll see sex buyers all over when it comes to like in these specific brothel areas. and they won't be all um i mean yeah you're going to see different uh ages and whatever but it's obviously there's a lot of like tourists but there's also a lot of like Thai men really buying sex from from women in prostitution in in Thailand is Thailand's a lot like Vegas in a way right when it comes to like sex work and prostitution Thailand is very similar to Las Vegas is that right for sure

Yes, for sure. Did you think that's mainly because of the tourism there? I mean, it absolutely has something to do with it. Absolutely. Like, yeah, like hundreds of thousands of people will go to Thailand, even just from Sweden every year to, you know, do vacation. So that obviously affects the amount of brothels available. But as I was saying, it's also important to know that it is a lot of Thai men as well

who are actually visiting these brothels. And it's the same. You see the same in India. It's not only tourists. It's really a lot of Indian men as well going to brothels. So yeah. So it's a domestic problem as well as an international problem. And are you, so are you talking to people there?

Like compared to people in the different places you go to? You haven't talked to anybody in Thailand? Not in Thailand, actually. I've kind of stayed clear because I'm just like, I need some vacation from all of. Yeah. So no, but I've met throughout these years that I work with this issue, I met maybe, yeah, if I'm not going to exaggerate, maybe I met like 400 people in prostitution over the years. Wow. Men and women and transgender people.

And I've met six buyers and people convicted of sex offending, you know, crimes in various countries in Austria, Germany, Sweden, Norway. way, yeah, the list goes on. And yeah, and so, yeah, so what would I do after? So you interviewed, you interviewed like sex offenders that were in prisons? Yeah. Yes. Not not officially interviewing, but I've done volunteer work for years. Okay. Did you ever actually have conversations with any of them? Yeah, that's what you do when you do. So yes, I mean, I've had hundreds of conversations. with people convicted of the most awful things you can't I mean you can't even imagine and I really read their files or anything I was very like yeah just to kind of meet the person you know what I mean instead of the offender but they would they would tell me a lot of them would tell me and would

share what their conviction was for and some wouldn't but yeah there are some pretty tough stories. And it's also, I mean, I would really say, because that also hit me when I've, because I did like years of volunteer work in, in different prostitution, like red light areas. Yeah. And meeting people in prostitution. And then exchanging that for prison work, what I really saw, and it kind of shook me.

Like, what I really saw was the similarities to when it comes to the background stories. And you kind of saw like, okay, like none of you grew up the way you deserve to grow up, you know? And then things happen and, you know, your life took a turn and you made bad choices. And yeah, I'm not excusing anything because it's so awful. The things that, you know, a sex offender does, obviously it's horrible. But I would also say that I have also, I've had some really great experiences when it comes to meeting them. because I've really seen the person behind it. Again, not to excuse anything,

but just to kind of add to it the childhood trauma and the things that has happened to a lot of people. Yeah, I think the prison term for the sex offenders is I think everybody in prison just calls them chomos, which is short for child molesters. Yeah. So I think if you're in there for a sex crime,

you're automatically a child molester. Yeah. Is that what you notice? It was most of it with like, underage type stuff? I mean, not. I would say that too, of course. It would be anything.

It would be anything from rape to, because in Sweden you combine, if you are convicted of a, if let's say you have beaten up your partner, then you will be put in the same prison as someone who has committed a rape. Okay. So it would be anything on that spectra, really.

Yeah. Yeah. How long have you lived in? Sweden again. Oh, since. Okay, let's see. How long have I been? I'm 13 years, I think.

Going on 14, I think. Yeah. Okay. Because that part of the world, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, they're way more open sexually than people in America. Most of America is made up of people who are very insecure, I think, is actually compared to that part of the world. I think you're doing a great job.

Thank you. I appreciate it. What's the future of your company? And what kind of plans do you guys have for the next year, next few years? I'm really, as I said, I'm so in love with LA. So I'm like, I have to be there. Wow, that's so funny. Is that the only part of the United States you've been to?

No, I've been to D.C. Okay. And Vegas. D.C., Vegas. And L.A. And LA. Okay. So I need to do a road trip, I feel, to see. Yes.

Definitely do a road trip. Yeah. A coastal road trip. I mean, obviously, through the middle of the country, you'll see some really interesting shit too. Right. But along the East Coast, there's some amazing places on the East Coast, including Florida, yeah.

Miami is a place you have to go to. I have to go to. It's like another country. It is. But I feel like. I feel like it's like there's so many countries within the U.S. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Yeah. But when you're in Miami, you honestly feel like you're on another continent. It feels so isolated from anything else. Well, I guess compared to Florida because nothing else in Florida is like Miami. Right. I have to go. But yeah, L.A., I'm not a big fan of L.A. I'm not really a big fan of L.A.

I love San Diego. I love like up north, California. but LA just seems like so much traffic, you know, so much like people are so superficial and fake there, I feel like, not everybody, but for the most part. I think I've been so lucky because that's everybody keeps telling me that. Like whenever I go there, it's just like everybody is like, oh, beware, like, you know, kind of me. And I'm like, I haven't seen that yet. I'm for a surprise. I don't know, but it's, yeah, I'm lucky.

everybody has been so genuine and yeah yes i've made friends like real friends and yes for sure they'll expose themselves for who they really are don't it's coming that you know when that happens yeah no i think like we really want to go towards like being more um yeah once corona is gone um we could be more present, I think, in LA. I really want to study in the U.S. some more. I'd love to study perhaps, I don't know, I've looked into studying law at UCLA. I've looked into some programs at Harvard, but that's, I wouldn't want to be in Boston. So I had to, I, you know, I have to look at some programs that they have that you can do from home, basically. Like, you don't have to be on campus all the time. Yeah. So I'm like looking into different studying options and to see.

I got a good feeling about the future. I know, I think it's going to, you know, they're going to happen. So, and I see like when it comes to this this year, I really see like people are opening up. Like people are talking about it more and more. And just checking my DMs every day. I'm like, oh, like, okay, there's this guy from Iran or there's this guy from Saudi Arabia or there's this girl from Australia.

You know what I mean? It's like all over. So it's so, I think people are hungry for a conversation on porn. Yeah, I can definitely see that. Well, that's amazing. That's super interesting. What about you? What about me?

Yes. In regards to what? After Corona, what's happening? After Corona, I'll actually be able to have more people in our studio doing these podcasts face to face. I got a few people locally that we've had coming in. But for the most part, it's just been these Skype interviews. Right. with people on, you know, on remote locations.

And additionally, we shoot a lot of documentary type stuff. So we do like a lot of traveling and filming weird shit around the state and around the country. And production work has been close to non-existent for the past few months. So, you know, right now talking, I mean, talking to through computers is great, especially when you have someone interesting. But there's nothing like that one-on-one face-to-face interaction. For sure. I can imagine.

Yes. Perseverance. Perseverance. Absolutely. So people that are listening to this, how can they find you on social media and where can they follow you and learn more about what you're doing? Yeah. So my name is Maria Alin, which is A-H-L-I-N. So just switch those two and then you'll find me, Al-in Maria.

A-H-L-I-N-Maria. That's on Instagram. And then you can find Changing Attitudes on Instagram and Changing Attitudes. on Instagram and changing aditudes.com for our website with facts and stuff on porn and sex spying and all that. And definitely watch the TED talk. Yeah. Yes. Do it.