Danny Jones Podcast - #438 - "The End Is Near" Ex-Scientologist Explains Their #1 New Threat | Aaron Smith-Levin

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Aaron Smith-Levin was raised in Scientology. From early childhood he worked for the organization full-time, as a staff member and a Sea Org member. He officially left Scientology in early 2014, and since 2015 he has been educating the public about Scientology and exposing abuses within the organization through his YouTube channel "Growing Up In Scientology". SPONSORS https://GLD.com - Use code DANNYJONES for 40% 0ff. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://www.youtube.com/@growingupinscientology *NEW* DJP MERCH https://dannyjonespodcast.com Get paid to make clips from the show: https://discord.com/invite/dannyjones FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Why Scientology Isn't Dead Yet & Growing Up a Scientologist 06:40 - Who Will Replace Miscavige? Scientology's Membership 13:17 - The Wealthiest Scientologists & Why They Stay 19:11 - Abuse & Trafficking Allegations Inside Scientology 23:51 - Beck, Scientology Schools & Abuse Allegations 29:43 - How Beck Left Scientology Without Losing His Family 31:54 - Why Tom Cruise Stays in Scientology 38:59 - The FBI's Investigation Into Scientology 41:49 - Scientology's Weekly Revenue & Miscavige's Salary 48:51 - Scientology's Biggest Lie & How It Holds Power 50:54 - Ingo Swann, Remote Viewing & L. Ron Hubbard 52:33 - Helping People Leave Scientology 57:26 - Scientology's Recruitment Center & Membership Decline 01:03:47 - Shelly Miscavige & Sea Org Rules for Children 01:07:44 - Companies Owned by Scientologists 01:13:47 - Aaron's Scientology Protest Trials & Jail Time 01:27:32 - Clearwater Police, Scientology & Sea Org Security 01:32:12 - Scientology's Anti-Drone Security 01:38:37 - Danny's Live Auditing Session With an E-Meter 01:50:38 - Why Scientology's $5,000 E-Meters Can Be Bricked 01:53:20 - Escaping the Sea Org & Scientology's Exit Interrogations 01:58:09 - Scientology's Office of Special Affairs & Private Investigators 02:02:34 - Grant Cardone's Scientology Role & Investment Lawsuit 02:09:23 - Danny Masterson's Trial & Scientology's Role Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Nice to see you, bro. Good to see you, too. It's been a while. It's been a few years, hasn't it? It has been.

Is Scientology dead yet? Almost, man. They're getting there. They're getting there. I was like, that's one of the great things we can talk. about Scientology is still dying. The most quickly failing cult in the world, although you wouldn't know it living here in the Clearwater area. Yeah, they move in silence, man. It's a, what's one of those things? It's like, you don't talk, you don't really, you see him walking around, but you don't really hear much, except for the people that were the ex- Scientologist like yourself,

who were like speaking out and making a lot of noise about it and all the evil shit they're doing behind the scenes. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of noise downtown right now because of everything, Scientology's doing down there to take more property from the city, take more streets. Yeah, you're like tap, you're super tapped into all the local stuff that's happening with how they're tapped into like the local little government here and the little local economy. Yeah. So like what and for people that aren't aware, we're talking about like the Scientologists' headquarters in downtown Clearwater, which affects, I mean, how big of an area does it really affect?

A surprisingly small area. That's what I thought. Totally. It's pretty much limited to downtown Clearwater, Florida. Right. And they're starting to have a little bit of a sprawl just because they keep snapping up motels for their seorg workers to live in. Different motels and stuff like this. You know, because this is the largest Scientology base in the world, there's actually like a bunch of different levels of Scientology organizations at the Clearwater base.

And Miscavich likes to keep them all separate in their living quarters. So even though there's only, I don't know, 1,600,700 workers, you know, he has like five different apartment complexes and motels and any hotels that he's by because he doesn't want them all living together. Like he wants to keep the different echelons of organizations separate so they don't fraternize and mingle. It's one of the ways to keep everyone under control and to keep disaffection from spreading quickly. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. So it feels like Scientology has a bigger influence regionally than they really do.

But it's pretty much limited to Clearwater's downtown core, which, I mean, you probably know is not more than a mile wide and a mile a mile high. Right. It's pretty small. So it's been a few years since you've been here. So for the new viewers who may not be aware of you, how did you get into Scientology? There we go. Let's start from there. I say I was born and raised in Scientology, but I was four years old when my mom got in. So my earliest memories are of Scientology and being in Scientology. So I just say I was born and raised.

But so I was four years old when my mom got into Scientology. It was just my mom. My folks were never together. By the way, that's why I have the two last names. It's Aaron Smith Levin. Smith is my mom's name. Levin is my dad's name. Some people think I took my wife's name or something.

I've always been Smith Levin. And the Levin was never in Scientology. My mom got into Scientology. And she got in real quick and real deep and started working for them full time. So me personally, I went to public school until I was. I was about 12, and that's when my mom took us out of school. And we did homeschool for a year, but started working full-time for Scientology.

This was up in Philadelphia. And within about six months, we moved down here to Clearwater and studied Scientology here full-time for a few years as a staff member from Philly. So I was here training, but I wasn't one of the stuff. You know what I was still an employee, I was still a Scientology employee from Philly, but I was studying here as like an outer work training

is what they call it. Okay. So I did that for a few years until I was 15. Still no schooling. So 12 years old was the end of my formal schooling because everything else after that was just Scientology. 15 years old, went back to Philly to work full time for Scientology there. Long story short, ended up joining the C organization and being one of their billion-year little Navy-looking guys running around in Los Angeles. They're running around Clearwater, too. They do. But I wasn't one of those guys. in Clearwater. Oh, okay. I was one of those guys in Los Angeles. Gotcha. Yeah. So essentially born and raised in Scientology, by the time I left Scientology in 2014,

I was 34, had spent half my life working for Scientology. And then, you know, pretty quickly started my YouTube channel growing up in Scientology. And I pretty much try to be Scientology's worst nightmare online, just from an information perspective. You know, just putting out the truth about Scientology in an entertaining, engaging way that might be interesting and catch people's attention. I have fun with the Scientology content, but it is all geared around pretty much trying to do everything I can in whatever small way I can to keep people from being tricked into joining Scientology and to help people who are leaving Scientology. And YouTube's just been a great way to do that. Yeah. Have you got any backlash or any intimidation or any sort of threats from Scientology for doing?

and all this shit? It comes and goes, but the mainstay is the website they created under my own name. Oh, yeah. They do that with everybody, right? Yeah. Everybody that speaks out about them,

they'll make a slanderous website or a fake website about them. Totally. Very specifically, they did it to every single person who was on Leah Remini's TV show. And not only did they do it to every one of those people,

they waited until that person's episode aired, like whatever. Let's say that Wednesday night, they would put their website live. Wow. Yeah. So Aaron Smith-Leven. They have a team of IT folks who are building websites and doing all this.

Oh, yeah. Totally. Like marketing shit. Yeah. Right. I guess you could call it marketing. Yeah, no, they've got a whole team that creates all these dossiers of fake information. You know, if Muscovich is in town, when Ms.cavich is in town, sometimes P.I.s will be following me around.

I think it's not so much that they care what I'm up to. It's that they just want to know where I am so they know I'm not about to, like, ambush him when he steps out of a building or something like that. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Like back in the Lisa McPherson days, which I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, this was back in the 90s. It was a Scientologist who had a psychotic break and ended up being isolated in the Fort

Harrison Hotel and then ended up dying in Scientology's care. It created a whole era of protesting and anti-Scientology activism. And some of the main people that were involved in that Lisa McPherson protesting, whenever Ms. Cavich was in town, they had to have PIs with eyes on those people at all times. Really? Yeah, just so they know, if they know where you are, they know where you're not.

And they just wanted to make sure Miscavich was able to move from building to building without. How old is that guy now? He's got to be 65. He's got to be close to 65. Tom Cruise is 64, and I know they're close in age. So I always forget how old he is exactly,

but he's up there right around there. Yeah. I got to imagine Scientology is going to die with him, right? Do you think there's any going to, is there anyone like on deck who's going to take the spot when he dies? There's nobody like named and being trained and groomed to replace him. But there's probably like five or six people on deck who probably think they could step in. Who do you think those people are? Well, there are people that, like I personally know some of them, but they're not people that are known even widely in Scientology.

Like all the famous executives in Scientology are gone. And when I say famous, I mean famous two Scientologists. Like before Mike Rinder left Scientology, you never would have really known Mike Rinder's name, right? Right. Or before the going clear. He was in the going clear, wasn't he? But I mean, I believe who, yeah, he wasn't going clear. Yeah. But like a lot of these Scientology managers, they were famous people within Scientology. Right.

All those people are gone. So even Scientologists don't know the names of the executives that are helping Miscavich run the show. They just don't do that anymore. They just don't do that anymore. There used to be like five or six international events a year when, that Muscovich would emcee and he would introduce. He would walk on that giant stage with the big, and eagles.

That's right. It would look like something from like the Third Reich. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And these executives would be introduced by name. They'd be famous figures in Scientology. And those guys are all gone.

They don't exist. And Ms. Kovitch still holds these events and he still brings out speakers, but he'll just introduce some generic person as representative from international management. And it's some like, you know, 28-year-old person that no one's ever, ever seen before. So my point is all of these people behind the scenes, maybe five or six key people. I'm sure they think they could step in and run the show when

when Ms. Gavich dies. Does he have any, is he active at all? Like, does anyone in Scientology ever see him? Is he still sort of like beating the drums, trying to get people motivated? Is there a lot of active recruiting? Oh yeah. There is. Wow. There is. It's not working. No one's joining Scientology these days. They're losing. people faster than... How many people are in Scientology right now? It's a 20 to 25,000. I've had to revise my estimates downward. Every now and then, I'll rerun my estimates

in my little Excel spreadsheet. And it's 20 generously, 20 to 25,000. Is it 18? Is it 24? Yeah. We have a small... When you're working with low numbers, the percentages,

like the difference between 15 and 20 is pretty great, but the difference between 5,000 people is not that great. Do you know what I mean? Like, it might be a 25... 30% difference, but we're talking about small numbers of people. Small numbers. And we're talking about in the entire world. We're not talking about Clearwater, Florida.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And this includes all the C-org members and all the people you see wearing the vests walking up and down the streets. It includes all the workers, all the C-Bers. And how, so how is, what was it in the early 2000s, do you think? It was about 20 years ago. We have this from verified inside sources of the membership roles of the International Association of Scientologists, which are never published. But insiders who've left had said around 2000, the membership list was about 50,000 strong.

Really? Yeah. So it's been cut in half. It's been cut in half in 20 years. Which makes sense because you see it. If you go into these buildings, they're empty. It's such a weird thing because it's like if you don't know jack shit about Scientology, you can get around, move around this town and like never really know anything about it. Right?

Like it's like, and it's like for me, it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind. They're, they do a great job of like flying under the radar. You don't really run it. There's a little, there's a few like weird things about Clearwater that it's like, huh. You don't really think much about it though, right? Like empty buildings or like the little robot people walking up and down the street or like the big buildings. But it's just like, if you don't really know about it, you kind of, it's easy to ignore. You know what I mean?

Until you get into like introduced to someone. wealthy person or like you're doing some big real estate deal or like you get into like the the higher levels of society around here with the richer people and you're like someone will tell you like just be aware this guy's a Scientologist so don't say anything about it or whatever like hey we're one of this guy's house just you know this weird stuff is hanging around because he's a Scientologist and just don't ask any questions and you'll be fine and you know sometimes that does happen happen around here. And a lot of the wealthy people in this part of Florida are Scientologists. I would say like if you were to take all the like richest people in this town, I would say

probably a good chunk of them, a high percentage of them would be Scientologists. If you're talking about Clearwater specifically, you know, you could be right. All that big money on the beach though, none of that's Scientology. But if you're talking about, if you're talking about downtown Clearwater area, you know, you're right. Yeah. One of my friends bought a house. on God damn, what is that road? It's not Fort Harrison, but it's like, it's like more to the west of Fort Harrison. Osceola? You know, you know, like Willa Del or Hulk Hogan used to live?

Yes. Where there's like, so it's like the Bel Air Golf Course, if you're going up Indian Rocks Road, there's a T. You can either go right to Fort Harrison or go left. And it wraps around to Willadale on the left side of the golf course. Yeah. And if you go up there, there's like all these huge, you're going to go up there's like all these huge gated houses and like this gated community at the very end that you can like it opens a gate and you go back down. Harbor Oaks. Maybe the Harbor Oaks neighborhood. It's where one of the

Presley's daughter or something used to live. Lisa Marie. Yeah. Yes to like Kirstie Alley and Johnson. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. She used to live down there. So he bought a house that was owned by Scientologists and the whole bottom floor was like this huge basement auditing room. Yeah. So that makes sense. Yeah. Because there's certain neighborhoods in Clearwater that attract a lot of Scientologists. They call it the Presidential District, just north of like north of Drew where you've got the Jefferson and the Washington and the, for some reason, it's all Scientologists there. Yeah. And then, of course, you've got the places where all the Seorg members live in the apartments. But because here's why I'm agreeing with you that in the

Clearwater area, if you're looking at the wealthiest people, particularly in the downtown area in their surrounding neighborhoods, you're going to have a lot of Scientologists. And it's because the wealthiest Scientologists in this area also have giant companies, whether it's no before, or whether it's consumer energy solutions or postcard mania or nationwide title clearing or Moises Agamese's development company, Valor Capital. And so you got Tom Cummins has an energy company, Pat Clowden has an energy company. Of course, you've got the Duggins who are the only real billionaire Scientologist. Grant Cardone doesn't count because he's a fake. billionaire. So you've got a lot of Scientology money right here in Clearwater. You've probably got more

Scientology money. Who are the Duggins? Tish Duggan and Bob Duggan. They're divorced now. His money is her money. Is she the woman who has the museum? Exactly. Okay. She's got the, is it called the Imagine Museum? Yes. That's what it's called. Yeah. And she's also the one who's heavily, heavily connected to Trump and the Trump administration and the floor of attorney general. He's, he put her on the board of the Kennedy Center. He thanked her by name at one of his events. In fact, at a recent meeting of the Clearwater Rotary Club. She was bragging that she was, I'm the one who put up the $2 million bail for Trump

when you got arrested. And she said, yes, after lunch today, I'm going to meet with James Uthmeyer. We're going to sue Dr. Fauci. So she's very well connected. No way. Trish Duggan is the one greasing the wheels in the holes of power for Scientology with the current administration for sure.

That's fucking crazy. Yeah. And she lives where? Well, I mean, she's a billionaire, so she probably lives more than one place. Of course. But I do believe- I do believe this is her home. This is her base.

Yeah. Okay. And she got her money in the divorce, but I think she's surpassing her husband as the number one financier of Scientology. Dude, that is crazy. Is she the richest person in Scientology? Her and Bob. Yeah.

He made his billions taking a company public. It's a pharmaceutical company, ironically, because of how against the pharmaceutical industry Scientologists are, but it's literally where their wealthiest member got made all of his money. I think it's a public company called Pharmacyclics, and he ended up just making a mint. But they just turned the other cheek to that because he was. Well, yeah, I mean, well, he wasn't making antidepressants, I guess. He was making other stuff. Okay.

Uppers. So yeah, Trish Duggan. If you look it up, you'll be amazed what you find. Trish Duggan, Bob Duggan, they've probably given almost half a billion to Scientology. Good Lord. Yeah. Most guys like to stick with the same old wardrobe rotation. a good shirt, a good pair of jeans, and then one pair of shoes that goes with everything.

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messages to you, which is you're a God. You are an immortal, all-powerful God-like spiritual being. And Scientology can unlock that potential for you. Yeah. And any trouble that you're having, it's because of other people. We need to get rid of those people. We need to get rid of those people. Right. It might be your son or your daughter. Don't worry about it. Yeah. No, Scientology is like self-help on steroids. Right. Right. I always say this too. I always wonder like at some levels, there's got to be, there's got to be some positive stuff in there, you know, at least in the early dionetics parts of it, right? Without a doubt, I mean, that's what gets people in.

That's what gets people in. That's what gets people interested. It's what gets people to stick around long enough where maybe they feel they've got too much invested in it to turn back now. It's kind of like how people get sucked into MLM scams. Like at what point are, at what point do you realize, oh, wait a second, this, this isn't going to get any better than what it is. At the lower level, Scientology is very self-helpy. It's very empowering.

It's very common sense. Tools for life. communication stuff, problems stuff. Even Dianetics. You know, Dianetics is definitely a pseudoscience, but even a placebo pill can work about 40% of the time. I mean, when I was in Scientology, it was never really my job to do the recruiting. But the whole Dianetics thing and the Dianetics auditing and kind of that one-on-one sitting in a chair talk therapy. Yeah. I did sort of supervise a couple of those events for first timers. And, you know, going through it. It's like they're really going through it. They're going back into earlier

incidents. They're crying. They're sobbing. They're going through the incident again. And then at the end of it, they feel a lighter. But everyone feels lighter after you have a good cry. You know? Yeah. But Dianetics can be a very effective recruiting tool. And that's an example of it. There's a lot of people who will tell you that how they got into Scientology was they tried a Dienetics auditing session and it made them feel better. So they were interested in finding out more. Unfortunately, it's a family destroying international human trafficking cult that is quite honestly, also a sex trafficking cult. And at one point I'd like to get into making my case for that.

Yeah. You know, we don't jump into it right now. Let's jump into it. So, you know, I did a chat recently with Kurt Metzger, who I think you also chat with recently. Oh, yeah. Kurt's the best. And he made some joke about all these cults become sex trafficking cults.

And I actually said, you know, the one thing Scientology never became was actually a sex cult because the leaders. Right. They let the sex out of it. They left the sex. out of it, right? Muscovich got none of that upside. But there is an interesting definition of sex trafficking that even if Scientology isn't a sex cult, it is a sex trafficking cult. And one of the definitions is if an organization benefits institutionally and financially from covering up child

sex abuse and enabling child sex abuse. And Scientology absolutely does that. So one of the core beliefs of Scientology is that we are all immortal, spiritual beings who've been around for about 60 trillion years. Right. So your body might be 30 years old, but you're not 30 years old. You're 60 trillion years old. Right. My soul. Right. You. Like, you are your soul. Well, if I'm not my body, you're your soul. You're your soul. Right. Yeah. Scientology says you're not, soul isn't something you have, it's something you are. So like you are a spiritual. Right. Right. Right. Right. So if you've got an eight or nine old child. Well, that's not an eight or nine year old child. That's a 60 trillion year old spiritual godlike being occupying a nine year old body. Ten years ago, that might have been a full grown 80 year

old man right there. So Scientology doesn't believe in children. They don't believe in children. Yeah, you're not your body. The age of your body is not relevant. They don't believe in the developing brain. They don't believe that intelligence or maturity. There's no protections in place for children in Scientology. There's no separate rules. There's no concept. of age-appropriate material or age-appropriate behavior, a child, as long as they're old enough to read or write,

read and write, can train as a professional Scientology auditor. Now, professional Scientology auditor is going to do exactly what you might expect the therapist to do. They're going to be interviewing you and interrogating you and talking to you about your deepest, darkest secrets, no matter

how perverted or sexual or whatever. These are what auditing sessions get into. You can train to be a Scientology Audit auditor at any age in Scientology. And in fact, the younger you are, the more you are encouraged to do it. What is the youngest one that you've seen? 11 years old, professional class four Scientology auditor. Yeah.

Oh my God, dude. Yeah. And so, okay, so they don't believe in children. And it's against the rules in Scientology to ever report another member to the police. Okay. So if it's discovered that a child is being sexually abused, It's anytime something like this comes up, Scientology will recognize it as a legal threat to the organization, right?

They're not against it because of the morality. They're against it because it puts the organization at risk if it's discovered. Right. Its members are doing this. They will thoroughly investigate it. They don't turn a blind eye. They investigate it. And they make money off of it.

So they profit from child sex abuse because these investigations are done through very long and expensive auditing sessions. So Scientology will take everyone involved and order them to certain Scientology confessional procedures, making tens of thousands of dollars interrogating not only the child sex abusers, but also the victims of child sex abuse to get to the bottom of what's really going on. And in Scientology's... And they're forcing each party to pay for these auditing sessions? Absolutely.

So they discover child sex abuse. They investigate it. they make money in the process of investigating it, and then they prevent it from being reported to the authorities. So that's basically allowing, creating an environment where the abuse can continue. And this is a legal, meaning legally speaking, this is a form of sex trafficking. Scientology benefits financially and reputational from the systemic institutional cover-up of child sex abuse. So are they running child prostitution rings? No.

Do they want kids to be sexually abused? Like literally, no. Do they profit from child sex abuse? Absolutely they do. And I got to tell you how timely this is. There's a book coming out about Beck, the singer, the musician, the artist Beck. You familiar with him? Yeah.

Okay. He was born and raised in Scientology. I didn't know that. Born and raised in Scientology. And a book is coming out called The Last Temptation of Beck. And it details, and I have these reports for you. It details how when Beck was 15 years old, he was having a, there was a woman, a 32-year-old woman named Lisa who was having a long-term sexual relationship with Beck. And she was a high-level Scientologist.

She was an OT. She was how old? She was 32. He was 15. And this woman decided that Beck was like her soulmate from a previous life. and she was living at the Celebrity Center in Los Angeles, where Beck and his friends were all, you know, running around during the day. And she ended up having this illegal sexual relationship with this child.

And it came up in one of her Scientology ethics interviews. And the ethics officer at that time, a gentleman named Skip Press, he wrote a scathing report detailing. Not only everything that was happening to Beck, but what was also happening to his 13-year-old brother Channing. in full-blown sexual relationships with grown adult high-level female Scientologists. And this was reported in writing.

It was sent to all levels of management. It was sent to the executive director of the Scientology School that one of these kids was going to. It was sent to Scientology Central Data Files. So literally, Scientology has on file written detailed evidence of child sex abuse, and they profit off of it,

and they cover it up, and they never reported to the authorities. And there's another case, I mean, there's another case right now of a basketball coach who was found to be sexually abusing kids at a school in L.A. called like the Albert Einstein Academy. And when the prosecutors were investigating this, they found out that the school he had worked at just prior was the Scientology Delphian school in Los Angeles.

So the prosecutors go there thinking, you know, schools are usually very cooperative in helping the police go after predators. Right. For the first time ever, he was faced with these administrators at a school who were stonewalling him. And he goes, something's wrong here. And then he found out they were all Scientologists. And he's like, oh, they're closing ranks.

Because at the Scientology School, everybody who works there is a Scientologist. Right. It turns out that this basketball coach had sexually abused kids at the Delphian school. And when they found out about it, instead of reporting him to the authorities, they gave him a good reference so he could get a job at another school. That's how they got rid of him. Oh, my God. And there's currently a lawsuit. Did they kick him out of Scientology?

That basketball coach, for whatever reason, had never been a Scientologist. To the best of my knowledge. Okay. He's someone they hired just to be the coach. But he abused some- They covered it up and they recommended him to another school. Helped him get a job at another school. Yeah.

And so that, the executive director of that teacher right now, her name is Karen Dale, long-term Scientologist. She was deposed in this lawsuit and just lied. her ass off about not knowing anything, never having known anything. And then the lawyers for the plaintiffs, and this civil lawsuit now that we're talking about, scheduled a deposition for the next person, and the attorneys for the defendants realized,

oh, we're about to get jammed up here. And they turned over the knowledge reports that had been submitted on this coach internally in the Delphian school, proving that they knew what this guy was doing and covered it up and silenced the, victims and their idea of accountability is, oh my God, get them out of this school. Let's get them to another school where you can abuse more children. And this is going to be, in my opinion, the downfall of Scientology. Covering up child sex abuse does not have a statute of limitations.

And there's a law called the Child Abuse Neglect and Reporting Act, Canra. And there's different versions of this law in the books in different states. But California, I believe, I believe. I believe. the prosecutors in California will nail Scientology for their violations of Canara. Because violating camera in Scientology, it's not just an exception to the rule. It's the rule. Scientology policy is literally baked in violating the child abuse and neglect reporting act. You're not allowed to report any Scientologists to the authorities. But legally in the United States, you're not allowed to not report it. Like, you have to report it.

There are certain people who are mandated reporters. And there are tons of people in Scientology who know. about the child sex abuse who are mandated reporters and don't report. And every time they don't report, it is a serious violation for which there is no statute of limitations. And I do believe this is how Scientology will get nailed. Yeah. And I was going to say, I think the lawsuits and the judgments and everything might be what brings Scientology down. Like civil lawsuits. Yes, absolutely. Is it possible the judges could be compromised somehow? I mean, never say never, right? Scientology doesn't have any judges that.

Yeah. Who can lobby the fucking president. Exactly. Like how many people can lobby the parts of the judiciary system? Yeah, not many. That's where Scientology's influence has to always be suspected. Because the power of lobbying and the power of money, you never know. You never know quite how deep and far that power is reaching.

And obviously, she's got, Trish Duggan has an open door to Trump. I mean, Trish Duggan has an open door to Trump. Trish Duggan has an open door to the Florida Attorney General. But does that get you a federal judge? Does that get you a state judge? I don't know. It's always possible. Now the Beck thing.

Yeah. Usually there's a book coming out about it. Is this his book? No. No. So he's never admitted any of this. Does he deny it? What does he say about it?

Is that when I asked him? Beck's not in Scientology anymore. He announced that he was not in Scientology anymore in 2019. I do not expect Beck to say anything about this. Beck left Scientology through this sort of little loophole. All new drinks are now at McDonald's, with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the

Spriteberry blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Six all new drinks are here. Now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain. where the Scientologist in his life and his family members didn't have to disconnect from him, like usually would happen. He kind of said, I was never really in Scientology. That was my dad's thing.

So in Scientology, if you publicly depart your persona non grata, everyone's got to sever ties with you. But if you're saying you were never really in, then have you really publicly departed? It's sort of a little bit of a loophole. Oh, okay. And that's what he did. So if Backward who come out and pull. publicly confirm that these things were true, I think all the Scientologists in his life would have to cut ties.

So I don't expect them to do that. At the same time, I don't expect him to come out and say that it's not true because he's not a Scientologist anymore. And there's plenty of evidence that it is true, and there's plenty of people who were there at the time that will corroborate that it is true. So what's the point of coming out and denying it, right? Mm-hmm.

So. If you came, if you said anything about it, that would kind of open a can of worms for him. It absolutely would. Best just to keep your mouth shut and let it, let it roll over. Right. And is it fair to say that he would be incentivized to not say anything because he does have

family that's in there and he wouldn't want them to face any repercussions? Yeah, well, I mean, the repercussions would probably just be them having to sever ties with. With him. That's it. Yeah. Okay. You know, there's Scientologist musicians who, you know, still work with him in his band. I think his bassist is a Scientologist.

I mean, his dad is a famous music arranger and composer, David Campbell. And he still works with his son. And yeah, but Beck was married to a Scientologist for a long time, but they got divorced in 2019. And that's when he announced publicly in a newspaper, in a magazine article, an interview. He's like, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not a Scientologist. And never really was. I grew up in it. I'll have a lot of friends with it.

It was kind of my dad's thing. But no, Beck was very much a Scientologist. I wonder all the time, like, is it possible that Tom Cruise or John Travolta could just fucking say, fuck it, taking the mask off? I'm going to burn these fuckers down. I'm over. I'm sick of it. I mean, it's possible. You asked if I think Scientology would survive the death of David Miscavich.

I actually do. I do not think Scientology would survive the departure of Tom Cruise. No. But he's still very much as committed as ever. Yeah. You know, they've been photoshopping him out of photos from these events. Like, he goes to these events. Yeah.

And they actually Photoshop him out of the photos. I think so that he doesn't have to deal with. with a whole round of press about how much of a Scientologist he's started. I heard that he has like his own, at one of the big condos in downtown Clearwater on like the water right there. I heard he has his own like car elevator, private entrance to it where like elevates him up to his condo, like his suite up there. Yeah, that's true. That's fucking crazy dude.

That's true. What is this? Busted Scientology, Photoshop, Tom Cruise and John Travolta out of the event pictures. That's right. Oh wow, there's a gap right. When was this published? Uh, 26 April. April. April this year. So that would have been the, from the birthday event, uh, every March they do a celebration of Elron Hubbard's birthday. Uh-huh. And so that would have been. And they'd be at Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater. Really? That's right. And they

photoshopped him out of, um, honestly, it was only like a month or two ago. They did a huge groundbreaking ceremony in downtown Clearwater of the, the new El Run Hubbard event hall that they're trying to build. And Tom Cruise was there in like a hot, bright blue suit, you know, like a neon blue blue suit. Yeah. He was there, you know, waving a shovel in the air next to David Miscavich and they photoshopped him out completely. Waving a shovel? It was a groundbreaking ceremony. So everyone's got like little golden shovels and stuff. Oh my God, that's wild. Just to protect them from any kind of controversy. Yeah. So that way, well, that way Tom gets to show up, rally the troops, show his support, show he's still on board, send a positive message to

all the loyal soldiers, but then not have to deal with the fallout in the press of photos of him, you know, saluting David Miscavich going viral again. Right. Yeah. That's funny, man. That's really fucking funny. Yeah. So, like, I mean, he could, honestly, Tom's 64 years old.

He's not leaving Scientology. How many years does he have left? 30, 20, 510, 20, 30. Right. And his kids are in Scientology too, right? Well, Bell is definitely in Scientology. But, and I'm sure Connor is considered a Scientologist. Connor does not live the life of a Scientologist.

Connor's like a pothead. Scientologists aren't allowed to smoke pot. Yeah. I've ever met him. I've never met Connor, but I talked to people locally who are friends with Connor. I heard a crazy story about him yesterday that I'm afraid to say on air. Got to tell me off air. I will tell you after.

Actually, I can tell you right now. I'll just have Tyler cut this out. We're going to put a little transition right here. I'm going to tell him a story that's going to be cut out of the podcast. So, all right, we're back. I just told him the story. What do you think about that? I mean, I think if I'm Tom Cruise, I've got people watching my kids at all times.

Yes. You know. Right. Absolutely. But that's like another level. Yeah. I was shocked to hear that. That is wild.

Mm-hmm. It's, yeah. I mean, Connor, I think, look, when you're the son of Tom Cruise and your, you know, your dad's in some ways, you know, the co-lead of an international human, multi-billion dollar human trafficking cult, nothing really surprises me. He can also get away with living a life other Scientologists would never be able to live. I mean, I think it's like, honestly, the fact that the son, like, if I'm a Scientologist and I live in Clearwater, and I know that Tom Cruise's son, lives locally, is in the community, and it's just a regular,

habitual drug user, that's a scandal in Scientology. Like, like, okay, normal world, someone smoking a pot, not a big deal. In Scientology, you're the son of Tom Cruise, and that's the life you're living. that's a huge scandal. And yet Connor gets away with it. So I don't think Connor is like a real Scientologist. I think that they're just like, hey, just don't do anything. He's just trying to get by, try not to ruffle any feathers, right?

That's, that's, I mean, he is to, you know, to be fair to him, he's kind of was not put, I mean, he gets to live a great life for that way. But, I mean, he's kind of put between a rock and a hard place there. Yeah. You know, he kind of has to play both sides. Yeah. He has to help, he tries to live a normal life, do his thing, do what he likes to do. but also like you got these guardrails, you got to stay. You got to live in between, you know?

Totally. And that's why like, you know, what I say isn't even a criticism, like more power to him. Right. You know, live your life as free as you can. Right. You know, his sister, Isabella, she's a much more dedicated Scientologist. What's her story? She lives in the UK.

Okay. Yeah. She's like a fully trained Scientology auditor and everything. She's like, she's like diehard Scientologist. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And is it true that like the basic purpose, like the basic reason that you don't have somebody like Tom or John Travolta or any of these people,

people coming out because when they do these auditing sessions, they basically get their deepest, darkest secrets, like on a level of blackmail to where like it's kind of like a known thing that's in the air. Like, hey, you want to fuck around. You're going to find out what we got. Like, the world's going to find out. I mean, for sure, everything they have in the files is, it's, you know, it is, it is blackmail material. That's not really how they keep the celebrities in Scientology is with blackmail. It's almost the opposite. They try to be everything to these people. You know, they try to be everything to these people. And like I said, the message, is you're wonderful, you're great, you're godlike, we're going to help you in every way that we

can. So when you've got, in Tom Cruise's situation and John Travolta's situations specifically, use the carry, you don't need the stick. Exactly. Exactly. Grease them up. Yeah. Right. I think even Lee Remedy would tell you that on her way out of Scientology, it's not like they sat her down and threatened her. You know, they really try to keep you. They try to keep you. And then when they realize they're not going to be able to keep you anymore, they're just like, we never liked her anyway. And she was always a piece of shit. And we're glad she's gone. But they really do not sit you down and threaten you with blackmail. But the information is there.

They could blackmail you if you want. And they do use that information later. But they will use that information later. But they don't actually threaten you with it. Right. And I guess it's kind of maybe an open question as to speaking for myself when I was in, there was no part of me that was worried about them using that stuff. Like concern about use of that material is not something that ever kept me in or kept me up at night.

So I guess I'm assuming it doesn't for others. But it's possible. You look, when it comes to John, though, okay. When it comes to John, no. Maybe. Maybe. Those skeletons are a little different, you know. But no, I don't think Tom stays because of blackmail.

I think he's a true believer. And the mission of Scientology, which is not only to save the world and everyone in it, but to save, you know, this entire sector of the galaxy. Right. So when it comes to what you were talking about with the stuff of them covering up, covering up, like, child sex abuse and stuff like that, how is it possible that the FBI hasn't gotten involved? I mean, I would say that the FBI has been involved for a long time. There's just a huge difference between building a case and bringing a case. And the FBI builds cases.

They don't bring cases. And unfortunately, the people who are the decision makers on bringing cases are elected politicians, you know, states attorneys who are elected, attorneys general. They build cases. They don't bring cases. What does that mean? So, like, let's take it down to a city level. Like, the Clearwater police and detectives would investigate and build a case. But it's up to the state attorney to go, am I going to bring charges?

Am I going to prosecute? Right. So I would say the FBI has been involved for a very long time, continues to be involved for a very long time. continues to be involved, has been involved for a very long time. They got raided by the FBI at one point, right? In the late 70s, it was the largest ever simultaneous raid conducted by the FBI in the United States at that time. I think it was Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Clearwater, Florida. And in that raid, that's how they found evidence of all of Scientology's infiltration of the federal government, the DOJ, the IRS, the

And that's how they found the evidence of everything they had done to frame Paulette Cooper, who was standing trial for submitting bomb threats to U.S. embassies. She was just a journalist who'd written some negative stuff about Scientology. And she wasn't even an ex-Scientologist. She was just a journalist, right? And they infiltrated her life. They had Scientologists undercover agents become her best friends, become her employer. They got her fingerprints.

Wow. They took stationary from a hotel she had stayed at, put her fingerprints on the stationery. You used that stationary to send bomb threats to embassies. She was on trial. She was going to go to prison if she had been found guilty. Completely fabricated. Completely fabricated. And they found evidence of this in the raids and she was exonerated.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. So but look, the FBI looked at it. into all this stuff and the fact that Scientology literally documents in detail the child sex crimes that they that they learn of. And these reports exist in the files and not just one file. They're filed. They're cross-filed. They're indexed. They're in the data files. They're in ethics files. They're in life history forms. This is, I do believe, it is going to be what takes Scientology down. With or without another raid. I mean, a raid would be wonderful. But I don't even

think a raid's going to be necessary for it. Okay. What would happen to Scientology if by the year 2035 there's only like 5,000 members? Would it make a difference? Make a difference. So Scientology is... What would be different? Right. For the world at large, nothing.

They probably all be hanging clear water. You think this is the last bastion of hope for Scientology? It actually is. It's one of the only last profitable centers for Scientology. Really? Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. The flag land base makes about $2 million a week for the cold. What? Yeah. Most other Scientology centers are actually unprofitable. $2 million a week. Oh, yeah. This is the- How do they earn that much money?

Scientology is very expensive. It is literally- Just from members paying for auditing and like all the courses and all that stuff? Yeah. Not only is Scientology expensive, but Clearwater is the most expensive place to do it because it's the highest-level organization. and it's where David Miskavitch spends most of his time. This is like the crown jewel of the worldwide Scientology empire. That's why he goes through all the trouble to make it look like Scientology's expanding here. That's why they buy all the new buildings. It's why they're building Elron Hubbard Hole.

That's that huge freaking place they're doing the demo on right now or the ground. Exactly. Because Scientologists from all over the world, right, in their little outpost, they can see that there's hardly anybody. in their local org. But if they come here to Clearwater, it's like coming to Oz. And they go, oh, my God. Scientology must be doing great

everywhere else except my city. So every Scientology Recruitment Center in the world thinks they're the only one that's failing and that it's doing great everywhere else because that's what Miscavich tells them. And then if they come to Clearwater, it's like, oh my God.

But you know how small Clearwater is, right? Yeah. Okay, and you know, to the south, you've got Largo, to the north you've got Denier. Eden, you've got Palm Harbor. There's zero Scientology in these other places. Even here in Clearwater, Scientology isn't actually expanding.

They're just buying more buildings. And so even though their membership is declining, they're managing to hoard a lot of money. It's amazing how fast you can hoard money when you don't pay income tax, you don't pay property tax, and you don't pay your staff, and your spiritual counseling costs $500 an hour. How much of that money do you think David Miscavage personally is skimming? He doesn't need to skim because he controls all of the accounts.

It's actually, you know, the most important thing to David Miscavich is making sure Scientology never loses its tax-exempt status. And if he was found guilty of anearment, which is basically self-profiting from the nonprofit, that's actually what El-Ran Hubbard was found guilty of. Scientology lost its tax exemption before because the government determined El-Run-Hubbard was enriching himself through scientific. Scientology. Right. So when they got their tax exempt status for the second time in 93, nothing could be more important than making sure they never lose it again. Right.

So I don't think Miscavich is skimming off of the top because he controls everything. But he pays himself a salary. He pays himself a salary. I mean, the last I knew, he was paying himself $100,000 a year salary. But, I mean, you can basically write off every single thing, every jet, every house. You can write off everything in your life. Exactly. So basically, everything in his life is paid for and provided for by Scientology.

What kind of a life do you think he lives? The life of a very wealthy billionaire. Really? Oh, he's got a team of people waiting on him, hand and foot. You know? I was watching a documentary by that guy, Tommy G. You know him? Yeah, he came to town and did a whole Scientology video.

He interviewed me and Jenna. Yeah, I was watching his documentary, and he was showing these old dilapidated apartment buildings off of, I think, Highway 19 in Northern Clearwater. And he was saying that, like, that is, been purchased by Scientology and they're using that as like barracks. Yeah, that's true. For the C.R. people.

And he was also, if I remember correctly, I thought, I thought he said like one of the, one of the apartments in there was for David Miscavage. There are several apartment buildings. Okay. The ones on 19 aren't the ones where Miscavich would live. He lives in the Hacienda Gardens on Keene, Saturn, Drew right around there. The Hacienda Gardens. So I actually went to the Hacienda Gardens.

Tommy Jay and the garden. It's just a giant apartment complex. Oh, okay. Miscavich has a whole wing renovated for himself. He owns the whole complex. Yeah, the Scientology Seahorg members live there. Okay. That's where I used to live when I was back, you know, back in the late 90s when I was here studying full time.

God, imagine how you can complete, like, if you own all these apartment buildings and you have people living there for free, you can write off, you can write a rent, say they're not paying rent. We're giving them free rent, which is five grand a month. And you can write all that money off on the IRS and your tax exempt. Well, you don't even need a write off. That's what I was just going to say. They don't have to write it off. They're not paying income tax. Jesus, Christ, dude.

And so like I said, if you're not paying income tax, you're not paying property tax on about 80% of your property. And you don't have to pay your staff. You keep almost every dollar you bring in. Like your overhead is the electric bill and the electric bill and the water bill. They got to be greasing somebody in the government besides. There's got to be a lot of people that they're fucking greasing in the federal government. Well, we already know they're Greece and Trump. They're Greece and Trump, but they got to be everywhere, right?

To make it work, you got to have your tentacles everywhere. You got to have people, like you were saying earlier, people in the IRS, people in the fucking HHS, people in the judiciary branch, people, judges. Yeah. All these, you got to have people everywhere. They do their work through lobbyists and they hire the best lobbyists. Do you know any idea how much money they pay they lobby? I don't. I'd be very curious to find out.

I heard that lady Pam Bondi. Who was the... She was the Florida AG. Yes. She's the one, and James Uthmeyer is the new Florida AG. So Pam Bondi would do fundraisers. Sorry, I'm burping. The local Scientologist would do Scientology-only fundraisers for Pam Bondi.

And then Pam Bondi would show up and speak at events at the Fort Harrison Hotel. You know, you know, to support one of their front, you know, because of course, Scientology's got a front group against human trafficking, because that's exactly what a human trafficking cult would do. So they use their front groups. They go in their social betterment activities to entice politicians to come and be like, wouldn't you want to come and support our anti-human trafficking front group? Is that what it was about for her with her? I think that might have been the event that she was speaking at.

Was she ever a Scientologist that you know of? No. Okay. No. No. I think Sonny Bono is the only actual politician I'm aware of who had been a Scientologist. Sonny Bowdo. I don't even remember how he got into Scientology, but he was one at one point. Oh my God.

And was Lisa Marie Presley. She was a Scientologist, right? Yeah, she left before she died. She left before she died. But you know, for Scientologists, like, it's better for them if their own members aren't the ones in power. It's better for them if they can use their money to get influence that way. It's almost like you want to have the arm's length relationship a little bit. Like Scientologists, actually I heard you and Bubba talking about how many of the city council members are actually Scientologists.

Yeah, we couldn't figure it out. Steve was looking it up and it didn't say it. It's because the answer zero. Oh, the answer is zero. Okay. So not only is the answer is zero. A Scientologist has never even attempted to run for city council or the county commission. And they're actually under orders not to try. Why?

Because it would expose one of Scientology's biggest lies, which is that there's 15,000 Scientologists living in Clearwater. It's not true. There's barely 3,000, even if you include all the Seorg members. If a Scientologist, if you look at the election results, you could see, if Scientology could control 15,000 votes, it would be nothing but Scientologists on the city council. But Scientology is so toxic that if one of their own members ran, not only would they lose, but it would expose how many Scientologist voters there really are. So they can't have that.

They have to be able to keep lying about it. If one of their own members ran, it would expose the lie. Yes. If they ran and they would probably lose, it would show how few Scientologists there are to vote for that. They would 100% lose. Right now in every election, it's seems like the strategy is who can accuse who of being a Scientologist the most. Like, that's how toxic Scientology. I mean, you know, it's nothing has a worth reputation. All the local politicians, they don't like, they don't like science. Everybody hates scientists.

They all hate them. It's the one thing that brings politicians together from both sides of the aisle. That's bipartisan. Just like the FD files and Scientology. The knowledge that Scientology is a dangerous family-destroying cult. That's an actual quote from a political race in Los Angeles in the last election cycle. Really? Yeah, even the people running for mayor were like accusing each one. Who's more of a secret Scientology supporter than the other? That's hilarious, dude. No, it's terrible.

One of the funny things, one of the common themes on the show, we have a lot of people who talk about remote viewing and shit. And one of the things that we've learned is that most of the prolific remote viewers were Scientologists. Ingo Swan, right? Ingo Swan. Who was the other guy? How put off? There was a bunch of people. of other ones. English one is probably the most famous. But there's a laundry list of them. And they all still sucked at it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like, it probably goes to show you. I look at the stories of what these people consider to be successful, remote viewing. And I'm like, so two times out of 100, you got something partially, right? Right. I feel like this thing's not working. Right.

I mean, it goes to show you that that stuff is probably bullshit, you know? Probably. But it's like, it's an interesting connection. Yeah. You know, and also like the connection to Jack Parsons and all the fucking NASA occult. cultists and all that, how they were so close together. It's just so weird. Yeah. Scientologists pretty much know about most of that stuff. They think that's part of what makes Elrond Hubbard, like, interesting and qualified to speak on life. He's like, I've rubbed

shoulders with people from all sorts of people from all sorts of strata. And I think, I think Elvron Hubbard even said that, like, the feds might have sent him in to, to infiltrate some of those organizations and see what they were really up to. And also, when you get to some, like, potential satanic stuff. Hubbard would talk about that openly because Scientologists don't believe in God or the devil. They don't believe in Satan or Christ or the Antichrist or any of that stuff. So it would have just been like, you know, when Elvron Hubbard would tell those stories in his lectures, it would just kind of be like, hoo-hoo, ha-ha, look at the funny, interesting people that I've known in my life. Scientologists don't care about any of that stuff.

Have you ever convinced a Scientologist to leave, like, one-on-one? I don't try to. Or have you ever like had a direct one-on-one sit down with a Scientologist and active Scientologists and like really had like an open discussion with them? Well, no, because they're not allowed to talk to me. Okay. The closest I came to something that I think answers that question is I did help a group of friends almost do an intervention with their Scientologist friend and get her to leave Scientology. But that was possible because I wasn't directly involved. Because if I were to show up a Scientologist would just...

They know who you are. Well, if they didn't know who I was, once they found out I was a former Scientologist or a suppressive person, they would just leave. They would just leave. But you basically had this woman who was a dedicated Scientologist. She was getting rid of seller business, sell her house, and to move here full time to go up the bridge and basically give Scientology all of her money. The bridge to total freedom. The bridge to total freedom. And her friends found this out.

And they reached out and were really worried about our friends. and we want some advice on how to get her to not do this. And I'm like, look, this is either going to go really well or it's going to go really badly. And I said, you have to be willing, like, how much do you care about this friend? Do you care about her enough and you think this is important enough

that you're willing for her to never talk to you? Like, you're willing for her to never talk to you again if you try this and it doesn't work. I'm like, yeah, we think it's that important. I'm like, okay. So we kind of workshopped it a bit and it actually worked. I always say, because people ask me when you were in Scientology, is there anything anybody could have said to you? Is there anything anybody could have said to you that would have made you like wake up or snap out of it or leave?

I'm like, no. And so I don't try to do that to others. And yet I do run a foundation that helps people who are leaving Scientology. Because once you've already at least made the choice that it's okay to look at other information. Like as a Scientologist, you're not allowed to, you know, you're brainwashed, but you also kind of brainwash yourself. That it is not okay to seek out or read or listen to negative information about Scientology.

But if you're in Scientology and you've gotten to the point where you're like, you know what, I should be allowed to look and I'm going to look. And you're at that point. And if someone like that reaches out, then that's someone, that's someone that I talk to. And especially when people have already made the choice, like, look, I've actually been out for a long time, but not really.

I keep it to myself. I just stay away. I don't answer the phone calls, but I think I want to leave officially. Can you guys help? What can I do? Can you give me any tips and pointers? So I always say I will never twist someone's arm

or try to pressure them to leave Scientology because they're the ones who have to live with the consequences of that decision. They're the ones who are going to lose family members, who are going to lose friends, who might lose their job, who might lose their housing. And so I've always said it's not, I mean, on my channel, I've always like, it's not even right to try to pressure someone. At least it's not right for me.

So they potentially have a lot to lose. Exactly. And if they're going to jump off that cliff, it has to be because they decided to do it and not because somebody was guilt-tripping them or pressuring them or anything like that. And when they are ready to leave, you know, that's what the foundation that stands for like, it's kind of what I, kind of like an informal name for my YouTube channel. I saw something on YouTube that was called that or something. Yeah, there's a channel that tried to spoof. Oh, okay. It was a channel that was like making, like talking shit about you.

They did that to spoof it to try to confuse people. And so, but your original question was, have I ever sat down head-to-head with the Scientologist? And the answer is no. But I sure would love to. I've been reaching out to people. Yeah. I've been reaching out to some candidates. We were trying to make something happen, trying to get a current Scientologist.

in here with you. Yeah. It's not an easy thing to do that. So there's this guy, a local guy, his name's what we call him Tampa Brad. But he runs a company called Home Love Construction. He sort of fashioned himself to be Scientology's kind of unofficial spokesperson. He's got a YouTube channel where he only interviews Scientologists. And the name of the channel is called Don't Do Nothing.

It's the Don't Do Nothing podcast. Now, I believe he has said that if he had the opportunity to, to first come on and be interviewed solo that maybe after that he'd be willing to do a combo thing. But that might be a bait and switch. I don't think he'd actually do it. Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah, there's just a lot of weird people out there, man. But if we actually made it happen, it would be good to have like somebody who's been in it for a long time, like a generational thing, a generational Scientologists.

And that's another thing. It's like, it seems to be very rare that like a young person would just have. an epiphany one day and be like, you know what, I think I'm going to join Scientology. Someone who has had historically no tie, their families had no tie. Isn't it true that most of the people that are in it, like got in it through their parents or their grandparents or something like that? I mean, at this point, yeah. Scientology's been around since like 1950.

Dianetics was 50, 52. And with the advent of social media and the way that just information is everywhere right now, I got to imagine it's really hard to recruit people. It is. And it's got to be hard to keep people in. And another thing I wonder about is like how many people are like, you know, when no one's looking at night, they're just going on their fucking on their phone or maybe they have a burner phone or something. And they're going and watching air and Smith Levin videos or, you know, watching documentaries about how crazy this shit is. Exactly.

Whoa. It's basically impossible to recruit for Scientology right now. Their number one recruitment center is located on Hollywood Boulevard right in front of like Hollywood and Highland. I've been to that one. And it's become an internet meme. It's become an internet meme. TikTokers and Instagramers and YouTubers from all over the world go by the building just to be like, it's a cult, it's a cult.

Or hey, Shannon, Shannon. The one girl that works there, TikTok famous, Shannon, Scientology Shannon. The Black Lady? No, that's Twilla. Okay, okay. Shannon is kind of a strange looking short, slightly heavier, white woman. Okay. But she works with Twila.

I love how they've all got nicknames. There's Shannon, there's Tukin, there's Lurch. There's Twilla is Twilla's real name, though. Lurch. He's this giant guy. He's really tall. But like, it's become a meme. Like, there's more people outside that recruitment center

trying to keep people from going in than there are recruiters trying to bring people in. That is their number one highest foot traffic recruitment center in the entire world. And even that has been turned into a complete joke. By the way, you notice you don't see that kind of sidewalk recruiting here in Clearwater, right? You don't see them with the Dianetics tables

and the emeters on the sidewalks in Clearwater. You know why, right? Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Why? You can't join Scientology in Clearwater.

That's why it's so creepy. You can join in Tampa. They've got a recruitment center. In St. Pete, there's a recruitment center in Park. Now, Plant City, there's a little recruitment center. In Bel Air, there's a tiny little recruitment center. Where? It's not like on the sidewalk.

It's kind of in like a little parking lot. I could show it to you never even notice it if you drove by. Okay. Even in all of Florida, in all of Florida, there's recruitment centers in Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, basically. In other words, there's three recruitment centers that I just gave you that are actually all one recruitment center. They're all part of the Tampa work. You cannot join something.

Scientology in Clearwater, Florida. That is why it's ghost town. That's why it's so creepy. Because if you could, it's the highest level Scientology organization. Scientologists aren't even allowed to come to Clearwater, Florida, without prior authorization. What? Without prior authorization. If you're some Scientologist from Detroit and you're coming to Disney World and you're like, I want to swing by Clearwater and take a look at Flag, they would be like, who are you? Where are you from? Did you get approval to be here? Okay. I'm sorry, you cannot. You cannot commit. Yeah. That's why Clearwater's so damn creepy. If you could join in Clearwater, Scientology would do everything possible to bring as many people downtown as possible because they

would see them as a recruitment pool. Why wouldn't they do that though? Why wouldn't they make it to where you could just walk in there and sign up? It's because it's the highest level organization in the world, which means it's one of the most secure organizations in the world. So what I'm saying highest level, like that's going to automatically mean something. There's a hierarchy. There's a higher structure of organizations in Scientology. Because there's confidential, there's confidential materials in Scientology that only certain organizations are allowed to sell and deliver. The Clearwater Base is one of those highest level confidential bases.

That's like the Zeno shit. Where you learn about Zeno and the Galactic Confederacy and the Body Thetons, everything in South Park. That's confidential information in Scientology. Everything in South Park. Yeah. That's confidential. The world knows all that stuff about Scientology and most Scientologists don't actually know that that stuff is true. So, but like your average city level Scientology Recruitment Center,

they're not allowed to deliver those confidential levels. They don't even have them there. Right? There's only a handful of places in the world where you can do those. And Clearwater, Florida is where the highest level of those confidential, the highest level base of those confidential places where that stuff is delivered. And so it's also where David Miscavich spends most of his time. In Clearwater. Is in Clearwater. Yeah. It's where he, it's the easiest place for him. to stay hidden because he can go from now he doesn't have like any like homes that he lives in he stays in like the big buildings or like the apartment centers he stays places where he can stay

super hidden correct like where no one can like circle his house or anything weird like that exactly that's so it's all scientology owned and operated and controlled and secured facilities and you could never see he could be in clear water for five years straight and you could never see him that's so fucking crazy dude yeah I feel like his whole goal at this point is just to keep things humming along until he got. Is he any family members that are in there? So his, I'm trying to think, his sister, I think his sister, Denise, he's got a twin sister who got busted on drug charges a number of years ago.

But she's still in Scientology. And, you know, of course, his missing wife, Shelley is still in Scientology. Is she still missing? Not really. Okay. They know where she is. She's basically in Redlands, California, Twin Peaks, California. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Why was she missing? What was that all about? I mean, that was honestly a publicity stunt a little bit. On behalf of who? Leah Remini. Oh. I mean, she was reported missing eight years after the last time Leah talked to her.

Right. Okay. Right. None of her family members reported her missing. I see. None of the people who actually knew her reported her missing. Right. Okay.

I applaud the public. I'm explicitly stunned. I clickbait the hell out of it in videos all the time. But when I do my videos, I also explain like, she's the Galane Maxwell of Scientology. Right. I mean, Shelly Miscavich is the Galane Maxwell of Scientology. She's no victim. Right. She's living a life of leisure and luxury in the mountains of Twin Peaks, California. So I don't shed any tears for Shelly Muscavich. But I do love using it as a way to troll Scientology for being this weirdo, this weirdo fucking family destroying cult where not only does, does the leader have to send his wife away, but Tom Cruise can't keep a girlfriend and they all have to escape in the middle of the night to protect themselves from Scientology. It's a great conversation piece. And I talk about it all the time. But she's not really missing.

That's so funny. Yeah. Now, isn't it a rule where the Scientologists aren't allowed to have kids? Scientology Seward members aren't a lot to have kids. Seahor. Was Tom Cruise allowed to have kids? Isn't that the reason he adopted because he wasn't allowed to have kids? No, one of them couldn't.

I think one of them couldn't have kids. But that doesn't make sense because now they've both had kids, right? Nicole had an issue with a pregnancy and it prevented her from having further kids for a while. So they chose to adopt. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, people, like Tom is a public Scientologist, and they're allowed to have kids. Okay.

Scientologists tend to. Just a Seorg people came out of them. It's just the Seorg people that can't have kids. Yeah. And they used to be able to, and that was not good. Raising kids in the Seorg is horrific. Isn't the cadet thing? Yes.

What was that called? What was that out of? Is that still something? Is that still a thing? Thank God. it's not a thing anymore. Yeah, that's horrific. That was one of the most.

That was one of the worst things I learned from that documentary going clear. That really was the worst thing. Malnutrition malnourished babies in this fucking giant room with flies buzzing all over them, sitting on their own feces. Terrible. Terrible. And it's not that Scientology woke up and realized that wasn't fair to the kids. They're just like, this is a distraction to the organization.

And parents constantly worrying about their kids and we need them to be able to focus on work. So eventually they're like, yeah, no more kids. Yeah. And Scientologists themselves tend not to have a lot of kids because it's so expensive. There's no real incentive to have a lot of kids. Unless you're going to send them off to work full time for Scientology, which is like then what's the point of having the kids, you know? Yeah, but you would think that they could use that as like, oh, have more kids. So we have more of a workforce in Scientology. If you're going to have a kid, that's automatic recruitment when they come of age. That would be the smart thing. And that's how like the world's major religions have grown. Yeah. The reason Scientology doesn't do that is because their whole mission to take over the world is something they always think they're going to accomplish in like the next 10 to 20 years.

So they're never thinking, how are we going to be big in 200 years? They're never like, well, if we all have 10 kids, then in three or four generations, there'll be a lot of us. They're like, oh, no, we're going to clear the planet in the next, you know, five years. Right. Yeah. You know, and then the fact that he doesn't show his face is very strange. Like, how do you live? You can't go out anywhere in the public.

You can't go out to a fucking restaurant. You know, you're going to get swarmed with people or people or, you know, cameras are going to photograph you. You're going to be all over the fucking internet if you show up. The guy's done a great job of being elusive for a very long time. It's true. But I've always asked the same question about even Tom Cruise. Because when he's not promoting a movie, you never see the guy. Right.

Anywhere. Anywhere at all. So I sort of think of them both living the same way. you know it's like if you if where you work and where you live are completely secure facilities

gated you've got blacked out SUVs driving you around everywhere you can always pull in and get dropped off inside places you can travel from building to building without going outside you know there's restaurants there's you know

the flag land base is very nice restaurants inside of it oh yeah really it's one of the reasons you never see the Scientologist on the streets they can get just as good food

inside the buildings being waited on by Searig members who don't get paid and so they don't get tipped. So it's actually cheaper. Yeah. You know, so. You know, it's really interesting to talk to people who work at some of those big companies that are owned by Scientologists. And they explain, like, the way the company operates and how, like, different floors will be dedicated to, like, the people who aren't Scientologists and the people who are Scientologists will all work together on the higher floors, they get treated differently, like they do meetings together and they're like, it's just a very weird, weird thing to hear about, you know? It's just, it's amazing that those companies are allowed to operate like that. Well, one of the biggest companies downtown that had a lot of Scientologists

working that was know before. It was like an internet security. It's kind of internet security, anti-fishing company. They do a lot of training. I know them, yeah. And then the company, got sold to a PE firm. Like, they went public, but then a PE firm took him private. What's a PE firm? Private equity firm. Okay. And the private equity firm had nothing to do with Scientology. There were no Scientologist there. There were no Scientologist running it. And for a while, Stu Schauerman, the guy who founded the company and was the CEO and the CEO and the CEO, after the CEO and the CEO, after the acquisition,

he was still in place for a while. But about a year ago, they replaced him with an actual, like, non-Scientologist CEO. And very quickly, found him. out that tons of these executives basically had no qualifications and weren't doing anything and were only hired because they were Scientologists. Really? And so they've, over the last year, they've gotten rid of almost all the Scientologists, not because they're persecuting them, but because they weren't doing anything. They were only hired because they were Scientologists.

And so you had this sort of two-tier kind of like caste system there, the Scientologists who were basically valued because they were part of the club. And then you had the non-scientologists who the ones pretty much, you know, carrying the responsibility of the burden of doing the actual real work. And so you got a lot of Scientologists out of a job now because the ownership. Do you think that they try to recruit people, like the normies who work at those companies? Some of the companies do. Like Postcard Mania is a local marketing company run by a woman named Joy Jen Dusa.

They have an actual Scientology course room in their building. where in order to get promoted through the ranks there, you've got to study these courses. I'm sure Joy would argue, we're not trying to recruit you into Scientology. We just want you to know how to do your job better. And it's like, eh, if you're saying the only way to know how to do your job better is to study L. Run Hubbard courses is like, give me a break.

No before. One of the things No before actually had going for it, and I heard this from a lot of people who worked there, is like they actually never tried to push Scientology. Oh, that's good. On its employees. That's great. I think they knew from the beginning, from early on, that they had these plans to actually go public and everything and having some weird culture of this kind of low-key Scientology recruitment would be really, really harmful.

What a great way to get a successful company. Get a bunch of Scientologists and, like, you know, people who think they're the gods of the universe, like, you know, be a really successful company. It's a great way to motivate people. Just get a bunch of Scientologists. Yeah. One of the other big local companies, consumer energy solutions or something, something, power and gas. They basically sell energy. I don't know how the business works, but it's one of these operations where you've got a bunch of people cold calling, basically selling people discounted energy.

I don't actually totally understand the business model, but I do know that like the executives of the company are Scientologists and everyone work in the phones is just people hired off the street. Wow. So an example of a company that makes a ton of money for Scientology and Scientologists, but definitely not a recruitment operation. I don't really understand what No Before is. It's like training your employees on how not to get hacked. That in ethics. I shot a bunch of videos about ethics, like how not to do things. You shot it for No before?

Yeah, I did a few video jobs for them. Nice. Are you, Steve, are you Scientologists? No, but I'll tell you what, they didn't really seem like they knew exactly what they wanted. They were just like, that, that works. And I'm like, okay. Is training on how to not get hacked? It was like, it was like ethics.

The course that we were shooting was on like how not to like sexually harassed people. Oh, so it was like an internal type thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was an internal thing. Okay. It wasn't explaining like what the company sells. No. I don't understand what the hell they sell.

It is, it is security, internet security. Internet security. Yeah. So if you're a company. you have a lot of employees, you would hire no before to basically train. If you're a company, your weakest security point is your people, not your infrastructure. It's not your IT systems. It's your people who show up to work and plug into your IT systems. And so it's training the employees how to detect and avoid fishing attempts, hacking attempts.

And so they'll even do the thing. I read about this just recently, because it's kind of interesting, where they will essentially try to trick your employees into clicking on fishing email. emails. But when they do it, it'll pop up a training video from No Before about how you just got tricked and how to not fall for tricks like this. Oh, interesting. So they're looking for the vulnerabilities and trying to. That's like something that you would only want to train boomers, though. I feel like most young people understand. You know, you don't click on the fucking sketchy emails, you know. You just want you want a free gift, click this link, right? Sure, until you get one that doesn't look sketchy. Yeah. Right. But I don't feel like they're getting any better. The sophistication of the fishing emails isn't getting any better.

You know, just like the phone calls. You get the cold calls from the guy with the Indian accent. And it's like, okay, like, you're not going to answer that call. One of the great new things about the iPhones is that now all the phone numbers that call you, they say spam. Yeah. Potential spam. So, you know, not to answer them anymore. Yeah.

I feel like the, you know, those industries are going away. But, you know, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe it's just my warped perspective. You asked earlier whether there's stuff Scientology does to try to mess with me. Well, since the last time I was on this podcast, I've spent some time in jail. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you got fucking... That was not fun. Throwing a slammer by Scientology. Yeah. How did that happen? Well, it was two separate incidents, two separate charges, two separate trials. The first one I was found not guilty on,

but the second trial I was found guilty from misdemeanor battery. It's almost laughable what it was. I think I sent you the video a couple weeks ago. Yeah. It's really pathetic. So the first incident was, me and my buddies,

we protest downtown. We protest Scientology every Friday down. town. And we put all this chalk on the sidewalk outside of the flag building, you know, the big one. And they've got this huge giant logo in stone tiles out there. And due to some weird thing with when they built this building, half of that is actually public property. Like you would, you would never guess, but they were allowed to build half of that on actual it's public property. So we can be there, we can sit there, we can chalk all we want there.

So we'd put all the chalk, and the security guards would come out, all carrying bucket, five-gallon buckets of water and just come right up to us and just, I can just dump it right on the sidewalks. To wash all the chalk away. Yeah, they wouldn't even wait until we were gone at the end of the day. They would come out while we're there and just throw it, right? Yeah. Right at our feet.

And then they started coming out with, like, trash cans full of water and then, like, little trash dumpsters full of water. Yeah. So you can find the video, Steve. I'll definitely send it to you. He'll find it. And, I mean, eventually I just got kind of sick of it. And probably a poor judgment call.

One of the security guards came close enough to me that I felt justified throwing a bag of powdered chalk on him. I smurfed his ass. I had to smurf him. Okay, so that was the first thing I was arrested for. So you threw chalk on them? Chalk powder. Cornstarch.

Okay. It's a kid's fun run powder. Okay, got it. It's the stuff that's actually meant to be blasted in the face with while you're running a 5K. Non-toxic. Non-toxic. The dude was wearing a COVID mask. He, nothing happened to this guy.

But he went inside and five minutes later pretended to have some sort of a respiratory distress and they rolled his ass out of there on a stretcher. Is this it? That's it? Aaron Smith-Levin faces battery charge. Is that you in the hat? I don't know. Somebody else. Yeah.

Oh, you probably didn't. Okay. This is good. Is that you? Yeah. That was the battery charge? That was the battery charge. That was the first battery charge.

Look, his back is actually facing. It's a boy. What? I was just doing a gender reveal. Yeah. Okay. So that instance, I was arrested. I was booked.

I was let out the same night, right? Okay. But, and again, I'd never been arrested in my life. No criminal history of any kind whatsoever. I don't know what to expect. I'm also way too trusting of police officers. And I think everything's going to turn out all right in the end always, right? Is this the same event?

Yeah, that's, that's, that's okay. Yeah. What was he saying to you? I think he's telling me that I'm being charged with a felony. Oh, okay. I did not get charged with a felony. It was misdemeanor battery. Okay, so I get arrested.

I get charged. I get let out. And I'm on bond, which means if you get arrested or charged with anything else, it's a violation of your bond and you go back to jail, right? Yeah. All right. fast forward like two months there's a completely separate incident and this one i actually how do i send you a video um you can send it to can you air drop it do you have airdrop um i do but how do you

it's just a you let's just a link to a youtube video just text to me i'll forward it to steve okay copy paste boom 43 days in jail for 43 days well he's like 23 the first time 20 the second time Oh my God. Yeah. Is there audio on this? There's a little bit of audio. Okay. I'm going to put the headphones on.

Okay. You got yours right there. Where's the audio? Oh, there you go. Pat. I knew I could come here and ask you for help. Claudio and Renato Lugli have been trying to reach their son for the last 10 years. Is there any way that you could allow Flavia Lugly to contact his parents?

They're trying to reach him. Ow! Ow! What did you just do? You just hurt me. You just injured my foot. This isn't trespassing. You're lying.

This is the property line. The property line is right here. You just committed battery on me. Admittedly, I'm being a bit of a drama queen there. Who are you talking about? Exactly. That's what I want to tell you. So that was not a Scientology protest.

That was literally me going to that building on behalf of a family who used to be in Scientology and work for David Miscavitch as their, was she designed? his clothes for him, the Lugley family. So the parents are, Flavio and Renata Lugli. They're these Italian Scientologists. And they have a son, Flavio, who works here at the Clearwater Florida Basin. They haven't spoken to him in 15 years. Oh, wow. Because when Claudio and Renata left Scientology, this is that familial disconnection policy. So they've never spoken to their son again. And they've received a report that he's unhealthy, that he's got like hyperthyroidism or something like this, and that he's on a

reduced medical schedule that he's not well. And so that's Scientology's public information center. That's the Clearwater Bank building on Cleveland and Fort Harrison. And the woman who works at the desk, her name is Pat Harney. She's a Scientology official works in the Office of Special Affairs. Now, in the past, I've done kind of a funny series of videos where I walk up to that door and I have a conversation with Pat where I pretend like we're working together to unionize the Seorg members and get them out of their billion-year contracts. Very funny videos. Okay. I go up to the door, I talk for about 60 seconds, and I leave. No one's ever approached me.

No one's ever tried to slam the door on me like that. And so what I was doing there was, and I was doing it for the video. It's not like I expected Pat to actually help me, but I knew she would be there. And I was basically saying, hey, Pat, I'm, you know, I knew I could come to you for help. I was being tongue in cheek, right? I knew I could come to you for help getting Flavio Lugley to just call his parents. Please let him call his parents. Do you know that he's here in Clearwater?

Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. He voted in the last election. We even checked. Really? Just a couple months ago. He's here.

And does he live in that big building? He lives at the Hacienda Gardens on Saturn Avenue. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I was only going to be there for 60 seconds. I wasn't there. I was speaking respectfully and calmly. I wasn't yelling.

Can you look this guy up, Steve? See what we find about him? Yeah, you'll see. You'll probably just see a bunch of my videos about him. Okay. And to be honest, I was just thrown off. Like, they actually did hurt my foot. They slammed the door on my foot.

Like, I actually injured my foot. I'm being a bit of a drama queen there, but I was honestly genuinely disoriented and thrown off. Right. They had never come up to me like that before. And I was kind of like, Jesus Christ, I'm sitting in my fucking foot hurts. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I'm being a bit of a drama queen there. Yeah. But I didn't expect to get injured right there. Right. And I just reacted the way that I reacted. Right. Right. So you could tell like you were about to,

you were about to like really shove them. You're like mid shove. You're like, Okay, wait, I got to not shove him here. Yeah. It was a very, like, the guy didn't even move. He didn't. There was no injuries.

No one was hit. I mean, I honestly fell into him. Like, it wasn't even a push. I actually fall into him. Yeah. Okay. And I didn't even get, I didn't even get interviewed or arrested for this. What happened is when I went to one of the next hearings for my first charge, the state

attorney representative lady, just announced that they were going to be charging me with a second incident. And I was like, what? And so they charged me with this. And I went to jail over Thanksgiving, over my daughter's birthday. I spent almost three weeks in jail over this. The judge hated me. Now, a lot of people hate me, but the judge hated me.

She hates protesters. She hates streamers. I mean, this judge was saying the craziest things to me. I don't know what your obsession is with Scientology. Imagine saying that to someone that was trafficked as a child by Scientology. You're just doing all of this for the clicks. That's your problem. Your problem is you make money on YouTube.

That's your problem. I'm like, holy shit. Okay, so my first 20 days in jail was because that second incident was considered, once I was charged with that incident. That was considered a violation of the terms of the bond of the first incident. So then I go to trial for the first incident. not guilty verdict in like 30 minutes. The jury deliberates for like 30 minutes, not guilty.

God, they pulled a whole fucking jury trial over this. Right? And so then the second trial comes. And before you go to trial, the judge issues rules of what you are not allowed to do or say. Or she will send you to jail for contempt of court. And she threatened me so many times. She's, I can send you to jail for up to 12 months if you violate my rules. The judge felt that the jury, the first jury, the first jury,

had sympathy for me because I grew up in Scientology. In the second trial, I shit you not. She refused to let me even say I'm an ex-Scientologist. She refused to let me say that I grew up in Scientology. She refused to let me say what I was doing there at the building that day. She made us cut all of the audio out of that video before my foot gets slammed in the door. She wouldn't let me say that the name of my channel

is growing up in Scientology. up in Scientology. She wouldn't let me say that I run a foundation that helps people who are leaving Scientology. She wouldn't let me mention Flavio Lugly. She wouldn't let me say that I was there that day on behalf of his parents. And she let the jury, but she let the other side testify falsely as to what was even said in the video. If you watch the video, me being a drama queen aside, you can see I'm not yelling. I'm not insulting. I'm not threatening. I'm not doing anything intimidating at all. They were allowed to testify that I was there yelling and screaming and shouting insults and vulgarities.

And so imagine you're a jury member, right? You don't even know I've ever been in Scientology. You don't know I'm an ex-Scientologist. You don't know that I was there advocating for ex-Scientologists. You think I'm just some piece of shit YouTube clickbaiter who showed up to insult a bunch of Scientologists. And then when they asked me to leave, played the victim. and shoved this guy.

And the jury found me guilty. How is that, I mean, I'm no lawyer, but how is that illegal for the judge to tell you you're not allowed to give any context around the incident? I mean. What did your lawyer say? He fought it, like he fought it tooth and nail. And she goes, you got a problem, you appeal.

If he's guilty, you can appeal. That's all you can do. That's all you can do. Judges are allowed to do that? I was shocked to learn that judges are allowed to do that. I mean, I got to tell you, this experience that I've had the last year in our criminal justice system for the first time in my life, I have lost all faith in the police and the criminal justice system. And even if I had... So who was...

So who was... Was it the Church of Scientology against you? No, it was the state of Florida because these were criminal charges. Oh, okay. But it was the Church of Scientology putting massive pressure on the state attorney's office to not drop this, not settle this, not... and go forward. And I mean, how do they put pressure on the state attorney's office? Well, that's where the lobbying comes in.

That's where hiring outside counsel comes in. Who is the state attorney? Her name is Morgan Me. And then there was another guy. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it was wild. Even being there in the courthouse and having the Scientology security guards showing up,

like, arm in arm with the Clearwater Police. And I'm like, what are you guys doing? Dude, what are you guys doing? Like 40 days in jail for that? Like, no one, there's not even an injury. He didn't even, the first guy pretended, you know, that he was having a respiratory distress and was wheeled off in an ambulance.

That guy literally said, no injuries, no marks, no nothing. And it was the state attorney that decided, oh, no, we're prosecuted. Was that guy in the courtroom? Yes. And so the question would be this. what influence was brought to bear to have the state attorney, Bruce Bartlett and so like Bruce Bartlett's the actual state attorney

but then there's the prosecuting state attorney was like Morgan, me. What makes Bruce Barlett look at that video and go, oh, we're not letting this go? We're going to jury trial on this. Right. That's bizarre. What? It doesn't even make sense. No.

Yeah. So nonetheless, I can complain about the criminal justice system. Lesson learned, though. Didn't need that. I could have just walked. away after my, could have just walked away after my foot got slammed in that door. And my life, that's insane. Yeah.

Bubba was telling me when he was on the show last week that he believes that the Clearwater Police Department is like bought and paid for by Scientologists because not, I shouldn't say it that way. What he was saying is that the Scientology is one of the biggest people, biggest organizations that hires off-duty police officers to do security for them. That certainly was true. believe it or not, since this incident and since my trials, the Clearwater Police have stopped doing off-duty work for Scientology.

Oh, really? Yeah. How do you know that? We know from contacts in the police, and we know also because we're out there protesting every Friday. So it used to be that every single Friday we were there, Clearwater Police were on station and on duty doing off-duty work in front of the Fort Harrison Hotel. And the Clearwater Police would come over two or three times responding to the, you know,

a couple dozen 911 calls to Scientology is constantly placing on. on the protesters. And so if Scientology pulls a permit and closes a street for an event, it's part of the normal due process that you're going to have police working security. Right. That's different. Totally. They used to hire cops to just do off-duty security work in uniform, in their cruisers,

for Scientology. They'd be out there every single Friday after. They're allowed to do that? Yeah. You're allowed to pay a police officer and they can use their cruisers and they're They wear their uniform and have their gun on their belt. Yeah, there's an approval process for an organization that an organization can go through to, you know, whatever the process is for the Clearwater PD. Once you're on the approved list, you can hire the cops to work off duty.

And there's an agreed upon rate and everything like that. Interesting. That's why, for example, like, if you see a high school football game getting out and there's, you know, cops working the event, you're like, well, how is this? They're actually, you know, for the most part, those are off-duty cops working. There aren't just like cops doing security for free for no reason. Right. Right. We're at concerts or things like that.

Exactly. Exactly. And they literally don't do it anymore to the point that they started having to bring in like the highway, the highway folks and the sheriffs to do it. And even then it's like I do think all of this painted like kind of shown a light on what is the Clearwater PD doing helping Scientology harass protesters? You know? And yes, there was that like, so the first incident, that occurred at a protest.

The second incident, that didn't occur at a protest. So me and my friends have been out there every single week, every single Friday afternoon for about three years now. And that first incident is the only thing that any of us ever did that justified. I see you sometimes drive when I'm driving down the road on the side of the road with your signs with a bunch of people. Yes. And the reason you see me where you see me right now is because until my probation is over,

I got to stay 500 feet away from that building. Oh, shit. Oh, so you're usually closer. That's why you see me at the intersection coming off the beach there. I see you by the gas station, right? That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to be at that location until my probation's over.

Is it true that they would bust their Searg members down the street so they wouldn't come in contact with any protesters? 100% true, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And why are all the Seahord people walking up and down the street all the time? Well, it depends on which street you're talking about. Where are they going on Fort Harrison? So because you've got the sand, you've got the sand,

what they call the sandcastle religious retreat on the north side of Coachman Park. It's called the Sandcastle. It's right there on Osceola and Drew and Drew. That doesn't next to the library, north of the library. Okay. So their highest, the flag land base is the highest Scientology base in the world, the highest level Scientology base in the world. But the sand castle is the highest level building.

on the base. Okay. So you've got Searig members... So they're just walking from building to building. They're going from Scientology building to Scientology building. Exactly. The big giant flag building on the basement level there, that's the cafeteria where they all eat.

Okay. Now, you really aren't supposed to see the Seerog members walking down the street because they're supposed to wait for the shut. They're supposed to wait for the bus. You see the bus is driving all over the place, right? They're not supposed to walk down the street if they can help it. So... But yes.

And also there's a management building, right? there, but in the middle, on, um, across from, uh, where the old checkers used to be. You know where the old check? I don't know how familiar you are with downtown Clearwater. No, but where's the checkers? Well, now it's a, it's a little Scientology park, but basically they're walking down the street. They're just going from building to building is the simple answer. I have a friend who does, um, he does like IT security stuff. Like he, he, he will, he goes out to like businesses. and he wires their buildings with like security cameras and stuff like that.

He did it for us. And he said he was hired by Scientology to go repair some stuff that they had, some issues they were having with their security cameras and their detectors that they had on the roof of their flag building. And he said they brought him into the flag building, and he had like three people surrounding him at all times, like going everywhere with him. they were like super skeptical of him like very very scared that he was gonna you know i don't know they

were like they were just very very dubious of him and they took him up to the top floor put him in this room or whatever and he's looking or whatever and he's like he's like trying to figure out why their camera system was fucking up right looking at wires trying to unplug stuff and like plug it back in and see like find the point of failure with their camera system and he said he's in their server room on like the top floor and he's like he found this wire going through the wall and he's like where does this wire go? And they're like, oh, they're like, hold on a second. They had to go outside and like whisper to each other for like five minutes for coming back in.

And they're like, oh, well, we don't know where that wire's going. We can't tell you that. Just try to figure out our problem here. He's like, well, I can't figure it out until I figure out where this wire is going because I can't rule. I got to rule out what the fuck this wire is doing, where it's going. It could be causing the whole problem. And they go back out. We'll be right back.

They go back. They go talk for like 10 minutes. And they finally come back. And they're like, okay. this wire connects to our anti-drone system on our roof. They have some sort of fucking, some sort of like directed energy weapon on their roof, allegedly, that like shoots drones out of the sky.

Or like if a drone tries to fly over it, it will just like drop. That's incredible. It's funny that you mention that because I was contacted by somebody who works at Axon, Axon body cam. You know, they do the police body cams. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they sent me a photo of a gift,

basket that had just arrived from the Church of Scientology International, specifically the Church of Spiritual Technology, which is the secret base where Shelby Mischavitch works. And this person said, I'm really concerned. We just got a gift basket from Scientology. Is this, I'm worried that maybe the company I work for is run by Scientologists. Okay, so they went and did some digging and they found out, oh, no, no, no. I said, you know what? You guys do body cams.

I said, I'm sure they must have a contract with you guys to outfit their security guards with body cams. And they go, okay, let me look into it. They look into it and they find out Scientology was not a client. Exxon had just acquired a drone defense company that had Scientology, the Church of Spiritual Technology, as its client. And that's why all of a sudden Axon is getting gift baskets from the Secret Church of Spiritual Technology. but it was specifically for their anti-drone equipment. No. What was the company that the anti-drone stuff?

Do you remember? Whatever it was, it was a company small enough that Exxon just acquired it. Bought them out. Yeah, they just bought them out. And so I forget the name of it. But they go, no, no, no, we looked up. We found the account record and everything. And then they sent me a free body cam.

No way. The company is called D-D-Dron. Or D-drone. Can you pull it up? I want to see what it looks like. D-drone. There's a link right below. There you go.

That's Axon. Oh. I'm sure it's on their website. Oh, there's D-Dron right there. D-drone.com. Okay, Axon acquired D-drone, accelerating the next generation of drone solutions to protect more lives in more places.

Interesting. I wonder what it looks like. But that's crazy. I mean, the amount of money they have to spend on security and like anti-drones shit, you know, to keep people from flying drones on top of their buildings. It's just like,

God damn. I mean, the level of paranoia. Oh, so it's that little white thing? So what is it? Is it a jam? Does it jam? It must be a jammer, right? Yes, it's a whatever that is on a stick. D-drone. Wow. So your drone, if you fly your drone anywhere near, you'd lose signal.

I guess. Or something like that. It's like an interference thing. They make, yeah, look, that one's a gun. I was familiar with those. So that makes a lot of sense. When Tommy G came to town to do his. Scientology video.

Yeah. He hired a drone operator. We went over to the Haciana Gardens where Miss Kavich lives. And we were there watching the drone operator do this thing. And he goes, I've never had this happen before with a drone. He's like, look what's happening. It was like, it was like this place he could not get beyond. And he's like, look, I've never had this happen before.

And we're like, oh, come on. It's got to get coincidence. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm sure they got them on top of all of Scientology's buildings in Clearwater. God, one of those guns would be fun to have, like drone guns. Someone's like find their drone and just fucking shoot their drone out of the sky. I think it just crashes it right out of the sky?

It must. They had this shit overseas in like war zones. You know, where like these counterinsurgencies, they have to have these guns because they have these weaponized drones overseas. Like especially in places like Ukraine where they should these black, these drones coming out with an explosive on them. They got to be able to shoot it. And even like when the president travels around, they have to have like a lot of the security team has to have these anti-dron guns or whatever. If they see a drone coming in, they don't know what the hell it could be. They got to be able to shoot that thing out of the sky quick.

Yeah. But like, yeah, that's next fucking level, bro. So. Well, I see you got this Scientology e-meter over here. Yeah, I was telling you that's a gift I got from my real estate broker who got me this place. He got me that as a housewarming gift. Awesome. Because this area is known for Scientology.

So you just got it working before we started the show. Because we were trying, we said it wasn't working on like it looks like it's working me. Yeah, we thought it was broken. And Steve, you even bought a new power source for it? Yeah, we got a power supply. It's a very special power supply. It's just been a funny gag on the podcast. People come in and we like have Scientology often gets brought up on this podcast.

It's like a funny gag. I can tell them we have an actual Scientology e-meter. Well, you probably don't know that one of the reasons your meter seemed like it was broken. Mm-hmm. Is because you've got this thing plugged into it. And this normally is not used with the e-meter. only used when you're doing the, when you're using the emeter on yourself, which you only do on the confidential levels where you're learning about Zeno and auditing telepathically communicating

with your body phaetons. So, I don't only get too far away from the microphone. There's not enough people that can do auditing that know about Zeno. So if you're at that level, you have to be able to audit yourself. Well, no, it's just that the Scientology procedures that they give you to get rid of your body phatons are procedures you do on yourself. There are some other procedures that someone does on you. Right. But most of them you're doing on yourself. But the problem is that when you're auditing yourself and you're using the meter, you need to keep the needle on the dial. But in an auditing session, you're writing stuff down on paper, right?

And so if you're writing it down on paper and you're having to go touch the tone arm to keep the needle on the dial, it just doesn't work. So the way this works is you write here and you move the needle with this little knob right here. instead of having to lean over and touch the tone arm. Ah, I see. So you have a remote control. It's called a remote toner, is what it's called. It's a remote toner. Okay. And even this is, even touching it here is a little clunky.

And so this is very sensitive. You can move it. And so you're writing, you think the thing to yourself. And then you go, oh, it read. And then you go, da, da, da. And then eventually you get rid of your body, Thetons. So how does the process actually work? What are you thinking about?

And how do you know where to move the dial? Well, this, you're just, you're literally just keeping the needle on the dial so that you can see if it reads. So on this thing. Okay. So here, is it plugged? It's plugged in. Is that how we're getting power? So on this thing right here, what does this shit mean?

It really means nothing. Okay. Even in Scientology, all of those little, all those words and those symbols on the, on the, um, the dial mean quite little. quite literally nothing. It's just if it's moving to the left, they call it a rise. If it's moving to the right, they call it a fall. Okay. And all those little increments is just that you can try to judge the size of the reed,

the size of the fall. Right. Now, we're not trimmed up, so we're not on the dive. We're not trimmed up. What does that mean, trimmed up? Well, trimmed up means you've got the tone arm set at two. You've got the sensitivity. 32 is fine.

You got dialed up. Really trimmed up means we're not on the dial. Okay. Are we even, oh, we're not on. We're not on. Turn the power on. Okay, power's on. Okay, good.

And let me put the tone on. Can you see this on the camera, Steve? Oh, yeah. Okay. And we had this trimmed up before I begin. Are you able to put it down right here, more or less? Yeah. We're straining the power cord.

There we go. How's that? Good. Oh, right, right. I see the problem. What's the problem? You're going to have to pick up those cams. in a second, okay?

Oh, yeah, you need to measure your body, bro. That's right. There we go. All right, pick up those cans. Oh, these things. Yeah. Do you have two different sized cans on there? They do.

It came with like six of them. Why did you give us different size cans? I don't know how to use it. This is Bobby's problem. Bobby gave us the wrong size cans. Damn it, Bobby. All right. All right, let me see if I can get you.

Let me see if I can get you on the dial here. What's going on? Is this going to electrocute me? No. Are you sure those cans are connected to these leads right here? They look like they are, right? Okay. I think so.

Oh, right, because we got this remote TA thing. I'm going to take off the remote tone arm, okay? Okay. Let's see if it wants to behave a little better. Tone arm disconnected. That way. Get it calibrated again. Okay, good.

There you are. We live? You're on the dial. How many body things do I have? No, don't move it. Oh, don't move. Don't move. Keep it still?

Yeah. Okay, got into the sensitivity. It's very sensitive. Can you see that thing on the camera, Steve? Yeah, it's bouncing around. Now you're on the dial. All right, let's see. Think of something like super exciting.

One of the biggest thrills of your life. Biggest thrills of my life. Okay. Okay, good. So you got a little bit of a fall. here. Like, none of this is actual science, right? How dare you? So, like, well, there, see, now your e-meter actually works, even with your mismatched size cans and everything. All right, let me turn the sensitivity up a bit. What does this tell you about me? It tells you got really

dry hands, by the way. Ha, ha. I can spit on them. No, don't do it. I'm going to try to get you back on. And so, all right. Do I have to have a lot? Do I have a little? Do I have a little bit? I have a little bit. body aliens. It's so crazy that you know how to work this. The way this meter is used in auditing is just almost as a crutch. So like if I asked you a question, what have you done that you don't want me to know about? Oh, you're wiggling around. Oh, sorry, sorry. I didn't know you didn't have to move. That's all right. You know, if I'm the auditor and I basically, you know, many auditing sessions are some version of an interrogation, right? Okay. How would you start an auditing session?

Well, we started an auditing session, I do all sorts of things to calibrate the emeter, squeeze the cans, take a deep breath, let it out. Are you tired? Are you hungry? You're not actually going to do this show right now. But then be like, is there any reason not to start the session? Then you're like, thank you. You know, this is the session. And then we'd do some questions to resolve anything.

You know, do you have it, do you have an AI? You know, there's all, I don't want to use Scientology Lingo because there's no point. It doesn't mean anything, right? Well, it would be fun. Okay. So in the beginning of an auditing session, you handle what they call the rudiments first, which means what do the things you have to address before you're ready to start the actual auditing session?

Okay. So the first thing is addressing any ARC breaks, which is just Scientology lingo for things you're upset about. Okay. And then so I'd be like, do you have an ARC break? And then if it got to read, I'd be like, do you have an ARC break? And you'd be like, yeah, I had a big fight with my wife this morning. I'd be like, oh, thank you very much. Is that a break in affinity, reality, communication, understanding?

And if I got to read on communication, is that a break in communication? Like, yes, total breaking communication. Thank you. Was that curious about communication? desired communication, enforced communication. Was that enforced communication? Yes, she was enforcing it on me. And then you're looking for the needle to kind of go back and forth a little bit.

You're like, thank you. Your needle is floating. Thank you. And then you'd finish that rudiment. And then you'd go on to the next rudiment. Do you have a present time problem? Now, that's something you have your attention on that feels like it's more important to be doing that than being in an auditing session right now.

A present time problem. Something distracting you. Do you have a present time problem? I'm distracted by something. Yeah, right. to be like. And if let's let's say that doesn't read and I get a little floated. Let's just say that doesn't read and now. Has a withhold been missed? Now that's something you've done that you, people don't know about, but someone gave you the impression they might know about it and you

don't know if they really know or not. And it makes you feel a particular way. Okay. These three questions get addressed at the beginning of every single auditing session that is ever done. Which is why, no matter what you're planning on doing, that auditing session. Imagine you've got a 13-year-old auditor. No matter what you're doing in that auditing session, even if it wasn't going to be something salacious, your answer to any one of these questions could be something salacious and inappropriate and sexual. Literally anything, right? There's nothing off limits in an auditing session. Okay. I'm giving you an example about how if a child is your auditor, it is completely age inappropriate. Totally. Because every,

every auditing session you're potentially talking about age inappropriate stuff. Okay. So then once we're done with the rudiments, let's say we're here, we're doing a certain confessional. And I'd be like, okay, have you done anything you don't want me to know about? Now, what I'm looking for is the needle to move to the right, right at the end of the last word. Okay. Have you done anything you don't want me to know about? And if I go, and I can ask it a bunch of different ways to try to get it to read. On the question, have you done anything, you don't want me to know about, has anything been suppressed? On the question, have you done anything you don't want me to know about? Has anything been invalidated? And there's like six or

seven different questions I can ask. I'm trying to get a read. Okay? And once- A read means what? The needle moves to the right at the very end of the question. And if I get a read, that's basically, that's green light. That means I'm getting an answer to this question. You have an answer to this question. So I'm using the emeter as an interrogation tool. So it's actually doing something. What does that little jump actually mean like, science? scientifically. Some change to the resistance of the electrical flow of the battery go through your body. So it's like a polygraph. It's like a third of a polygraph. It's like a third of a polygraph. It's a third of a polygraph. Wow. Yeah. That's fascinating. Totally. So ask me something. Well, okay. Have you done anything you don't want me to know about?

When today? Just look at him. He's got crimes. It's got crimes. Dude, it just hit the wall, man. You're mad. The needle just broke. It hit the die. Hit the pen so hard. And and so I am using this and you might be like, no. I'd be like, well, what did you think of when I asked you the question? What exactly did? I did masturbate to this. I masturbated to Miss Rachel. How many times did you stroke it? Probably. Probably. The exact number. With Ms. Rachel and it took me 27. Okay. It was very fast. Um, and so I'm getting all the details that I, that I can, that I want that I need. This isn't like, yeah. And I'm based, so the e-meter is just used as a crutch. Uh-huh. I'm going to use what the needle does on the e-meter as my signal for whether to keep going for more, keep asking for more, asking you for an earlier similar time.

You're looking for the dark stuff. You're looking for the stuff people are ashamed of. Yeah, the stuff that they're holding on to. Right. Because the Scientology idea would be because you're withholding this stuff, you end up withholding your own power. they might be onto something. I mean, to some extent, all these weird cults are onto something.

Yeah, that's true. That's very true. That's why people get in. And so that is... I wonder, that probably does have some sort of a positive effect on people. Absolutely. Also, let's look at the placebo effect, right?

Yeah, the placebo effect works even more if the person's wearing a lab jacket, like that kind of stuff. Like, the more authority the placebo comes with, the more effective it is. You as a Scientologist are told that this registers things underneath your consciousness. Yes. This thing knows things about you.

You don't know. Right. Belief is very, very powerful. And so not only can I use this to tell you that you have answers to my questions, but I can use it to tell you when that's all fixed now. That's all handled. That's all resolved now.

Right. Your needle is floating. That has gone away now. Like, wow, it has gone away. I feel so much better. Yeah. I do feel better. This emitter is used in almost.

all Scientology auditing. And this emeter, when they're doing the telepathic, communicating with the body phaens that Zinu created. I mean, I do feel better now that I admitted that I was masturbated to Miss Rachel. There you go. Let's go attest to the state of clear. I mean, it does work. Yeah.

You know, it's nuanced. So Scientology got so pissed off that non-scientologists were getting their hands on these meters that their newest version, the Mark 8 Ultra. is actually fully computerized. Software update. It's fully computerized. And every year, you have to plug it in to your computer and re-authenticate it through Scientology's own website. And if you don't, the machine bricks.

So if you're not in good standing with Scientology, your e-meter ceases to work. It's nothing but a $5,000 paperweight. Well, how does mine work? Because this is the Mark Super 7 Quantum. them. This one became obsolete in 2014. They don't sell these anymore. They don't sell these anymore. So a local Scientologist who left Scientology gave me their mark 8 Ultra, and it's just it won't even turn on. It's just useless. Because the newer ones, you have to be able to plug it into the internet to get the update. But this one's so old. Yeah. And if it doesn't update, it bricks.

It's not pre-internet. It's just pre-that model of e-meter. Ah, I see. Yeah. Gotcha. Exactly. So that's why you can buy these. That's hilarious. This is why you can't buy the Mark 8 Ultras is because no one's who's selling paperweights.

And if Scientology sees them on eBay, I'm pretty sure they might snap them up. Yeah. This one was, I think this one was purchased on eBay. Yeah. Well, like these older ones, there's tons of them out there. What was that one I was showing you out there in the other room? That's a Mark 5. Is that a super old one?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a super old one. Yeah, there's both Mark 5, the Mark 6, the Mark 7. the Super 7 and then the 8 Ultra. Yeah. And every time they come out with a new meter, the Scientologists all have to buy it again. I'm not allowed to use your old E-meters.

Right. It's $5,000 to pop. How much do the Scientologists have to pay for these? $5,000 a pop. Do people buy their own? You have to buy your own. Oh, it's mandatory. You buy your own.

Yeah. If you're training to be an auditor and you have to have two. Jeez. Yeah, no. It's a money maker for Scientology. No wonder you have to be wealthy to be in Scientology. There's a great German engineering. YouTube channel that took one of these, actually, this exact model and opened it up and broke

it down and analyzed how it works inside and put a cost estimate together. It's not more than $200 worth of parts. And these were manufactured by free C or slave labor up at the international base. These days, the mark eight, I think they're made in Taiwan. But again, they cost like 100 bucks, 200 bucks to make this on for $5,000. That's fucking crazy. And that's how an organization that doesn't pay income tax. doesn't pay property tax and doesn't have to pay its staff makes so much damn money.

That is fucking wild, dude. Yeah. Yeah, we were talking on the phone the other day about like some of the crazy shit that people have to go through to like escape Scientology and all that stuff. And, you know, a lot of those stories that I've heard happened a long time ago, like in particular, I think the first podcast I ever did on Scientology, I don't know if it was Mike Rinder or if it was David Miscavage's dad. Ron. Ron. Ron. Yeah. But I remember talking, I think it was Ron, who I was talking to, who was telling me, like,

their crazy escape thing they had to do to, like, actually get out of there. Because I think they were in the Seorg. Am I right? Is that right? Yeah, Ron and his wife, Becca at that time, they're both dead now. Yeah, he recently died. And, like, the story that they had about, like, escaping and, like, having to, like, trick the security guards and, like, get her in the car.

And they had to, like, haul ass down the road and cars were chasing them. Like, how much of that actually happened still today? Is that something that just happened back then, like, during the, like, the early days in, like, the 80s and 90s? Or is it possible for them to still get away with shit like that today? Still get away with it. I mean, if someone who worked here in the downtown Clearwater base, the Flagland Base, if they had to leave, they would, if they had to, if they wanted to leave and not do it Scientology's way, they would absolutely have to do it like that. Really? Absolutely.

Yeah. They would get chased. Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah, you see the roving security guards on their bikes. They got the cameras everywhere. They got the walkie-talkies everywhere. The bus drivers are all miced up. You know, all the roving security guards are patched into the bus drivers and everything.

That's how the buses avoid the protesters. They're all on the walkie-talkies. Okay, where are they now? Where are they now? Okay, we're going to go behind this building. So, and, you know, if your friend was doing some IT work for them, I don't know if you saw the quality of their cameras, I'm told they could read a license plate on Clearwater Beach from the top of the Fort Harrison

hotels as strong their cameras are. That far away. I'm told they got better cameras than the Clearwater Police. And so, yeah. Now, the thing is you also can leave. It's like, but they have very stringent, long, grueling, abusive sort of process that you've got to go through to leave. The C organization. And, you know.

Why, though? Like, if you, if you've decided you want to leave, if I decide I'm fucking done with Scientology, what's forcing me to go through their grueling process? I'm just going to leave and give them the middle finger. That's if you decide that you're done with. Scientology. But some people just want to leave the C-org. They don't necessarily want to leave Scientology. Oh, they want to stay in Scientology. That's right. And that's what that's the leverage they have over their head is if you want to stay in Scientology and if you want to still associate

with Scientologists, you're going to do this our way on our timeline and you're going to meet our requirements, which is tons of interrogations to find out any bad thing you could have done. And that specifically, at that point, you pretty much know that specifically so that it can be used against you if you decide to go to the dark side. Right. They literally will sit you down with a lawyer and cameras and interview you and say, okay, you see everything in writing that you've said that you've done wrong while you work for the organizations.

You agree that you did this, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. I did this. Okay. And you agree that you're here of your own free will? Yes, yes, yes. And you're here today of your own free will. Absolutely.

You understand that you're leaving, you've chosen to leave because you're you. you are unable to meet the high ethical standards of the C organization, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. You will say anything to get out of there, okay? And you have this on video with a lawyer. They do this with every single person who leaves the C.R., even if you didn't have some high level important role.

They have you sign all sorts of affidavits, non-disclosure, non-disbaragement, to base put the fear of God into you. That even if you do leave, just keep your mouth shut, get on with your life. Right. Don't start a YouTube channel. Don't go on Danny Jones's podcast.

Right. You know, that kind of stuff. Has anyone in there ever, like, secretly reached out to you to, like, say, hey, man, I see what you're doing. I'm like, I'm aware of it. Can you bring me to the light? They have not reached out when they were still in. They leave and they say how their process went and they explain that they're watching the videos while they were still.

Really? Really? Yes. Yes. And how do they get away with watching the videos and not getting caught? Because aren't they surrounded by people who are constantly snitching on them and like checking their computers and stuff like that? Isn't it pretty?

Maybe they had a day off and they went to the coffee shop or something, you know, instead of going to the coffee shop and Clearwater, Florida, maybe they went over to Safety Harbor or something. Every now and then they'll get a day or two off a year. You know, I mean, people, where there's a will, there's a way. People figure it out. Right. Yeah.

Fuck, man. It's so crazy. And then the OS, what is it called, the Office of Special Affairs. That's like their spy wing. Yeah. And they still have people who are actively going out and doing, like, spying on people and then trying to fuck with people. Oh, yeah. I got a great channel on, I've got a great video of a channel of busting a PI that had been camping outside of my house for months. It turns out my neighbors finally told me about this.

And I was like, they're like, hey, listen, Aaron, these PIs are really. harassing people. And I'm like, PIs. What are you talking about? Oh, you didn't see this guy? How can you guys didn't tell me earlier? Oh, we just assumed that you knew about it. I'm like, this is the greatest day of my life. I've always wanted to bust one of these guys on video. And yeah, so OSA hires lawyers, lawyers hire the PIs. They use cutouts and, you know, arms left relationships and stuff like that. Yeah. The Office of Special Affairs, they handle all the media, all the legal, all the public relations. They're the ones, they're the ones, They're the ones talking to the newspapers, talking to the journalists.

Well, when Tommy G. came to town, you mentioned that. They went into the Clearwater Bank building. Those are the Office of Special Affairs offices. Pat Harney, the woman that I went to go talk to in my little video about Flavio, she's a long-term high-level operative for the Office of Special Affairs. That's what's in that Clearwater Bank building. That's OSA. What's the Clearwater Bank building?

Where's that up? Right at the intersection of, Cleveland and Fort Harrison. It's an old historical building, Clearwater Bank building. They also call it the Scientology Information Center. But that's why that's the information center. Right.

They don't want people going into a real church of Scientology. They just have you going into the Office of Special Affairs. The people who work there have already heard all of the scandalous stuff about Scientology. Those people aren't going to be like, like if someone walks in there and they're like, where's Shelley Muscovich? you know, why did Whitney Mills kill herself, you know, all this stuff. The staff in there have already been inoculated to all of that. They already know all of that because those staff work for the Office of Special Affairs.

So that's where they want new people to come in. That is also what might make it seem like you can join Scientology in Clearwater because they've got this center where you can walk in. It's an information center. But that's not what it means to join Scientology. You can't join Scientology. So did you actually confront this PI? Yes.

Face to face? Yes. What happened? I mean, I got a great video about it. I don't know if I can easily. find it. So this guy was just sitting in a car out front of your house? Yeah. Let me see if I can find it real quick. I would wonder if those people actually know why, like who's behind it. Like, are they aware that Scientology is hiring them to spy on suppressive people? I believe they

know. And the special, the private investigators who are doing this, these PIs, they are not themselves of Scientologists. Correct. He found it. Is that it? Yeah, that's it. Let's hear it. Notice he's got an earpiece in.

There he is. Oh, let's see what's going on. Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy. How you doing? Hey. What's your name, buddy? Awesome.

Woo! I wish it was more exciting, but that was one of the greatest days of my life right there. I mean, why would he roll his window down? down. Why bother saying anything to me at all? But he'd been there for months. Really? Yeah. Been there for months. That's crazy, man. The amount of money they have to be able to pay for those people. Yeah. But again, the conversation that I was having there with Mike was like, why would they be doing this? And that's what Mike explained. It's not that they're trying to catch you doing something. It's that Ms. Cavitch is probably in town and they just want to know where you are,

so they know where you're not, which is about to ambush him or his security detail. Now, what's the latest with Grant Cardone? I know he's been getting in a lot of trouble. I've sold those videos of those depositions or whatever. I know that has a lot to do with, like, his business, his shady, like real estate business, where he tries to get people to invest in buildings and stuff like that. Yeah.

I mean, in the Scientology world, the latest with him is that him and his wife, Elena were just given the award for being the number one dionetics. They call it disseminators. But in the real world, it would be like the number one dionetics recruiter. in all of Scientology. So I don't know if you've seen like, Elena seems to do this even more than Grant. That's his wife?

Elena is his wife. And they're just doing all these Dianetics promotional videos. It's almost like how all of these gurus sell their stuff is be more like me, buy my program, be more like me do my course, emulate my success. This is how I traveled my path. You can do the same if you only invest with me

or buy my whatever. Part of Grant's story is Dianetics. Dianetics is how I really unlocked my potential. Dianetics is how I really got a handle on life. Dianetics is really how I was able to see, how I was holding myself back. Right. You know,

that's how I was able to take it to a whole other level. And so, yeah, Miscavage awarded Grant Cardone and his wife, Elena, is literally the number one Dianetics promoters in all of Scientology. So he's recruiting people. Absolutely. That's why I do videos about Grant. really give a damn about his real estate business or all of his stuff. I go, the guy's one of the

number one recruiters and financial supporters of a family destroying human trafficking cult. And so that's why I do videos about him. And he's only been leaning into it more. Yeah. If you look at his Instagram, especially if you're familiar with downtown Clearwater and what the Scientology buildings look like, he's been spending a lot of time here. Yeah, I've noticed. Yeah. I've seen that. And I see he walks around down there and talks to people and like he even films himself walking through that flag building. That's right. And you see all the fucking crazy gold-plated shit everywhere, the escalators.

It's wild looking in there. It looks like a Trump hotel. Yeah. Yeah. I think Cardone makes a lot of money on the backs of other Scientologists. How? By promoting his investment schemes. And also by doing his seminars and his 10x conferences, they all sort of.

A lot of them. like an MLM within an MLM kind of. Right, right. He sort of, those Scientologists that are already in the church, they gravitate towards him because he's one of the most famous Scientologists. So he's got like an easy target audience there. Exactly. That's crazy, dude.

Yeah. And that whole lawsuit was crazy. So what was this story with the actual lawsuit with him? The lawsuit is him doing videos guaranteeing a certain amount of returns on one of his funds. Oh, okay. Kind of like he starts a new fund for each. Like timeshare type things, right? Well, no, I mean,

timeshare is a very specific thing. He's basically buying these giant commercial apartment buildings, right? And so first he buys the building, and then he raised the funds, and he flips the building to his investors. Time share is a very specific thing. That's not what he's doing. But in order to raise the money for these funds,

he does it through social media. He's raising this money from unaccredited investors. And especially, especially when you're promoting to that type of investor, you making exaggerated claims of certain guaranteed level of annual returns, you know, you're getting into fraud territory. Mm-hmm. Because they're unaccredited investors. The assumption is that they are not necessarily smart enough to know that what you're

saying is obviously bullshit and should be taken with a grain of salt, right? Right. And there was just a series of videos where he kept repeating the same claim of guaranteed returns. And then there's one video where he even said that the SEC told him he couldn't say that, he was saying it anyway and the SEC could basically go shove it. So one of the investors in that in that fund just has sued him for it. And that investor has since died. His daughter has picked up the lawsuit.

I think we're talking about the Pino. The Pino. It's actually a class action lawsuit. I think the investor is Pino. And this thing's dragged on for years and years. And you're talking about a deposition that was recently made public where I think Grant kind of made a fool out of himself. Did you watch the whole thing? No, I just saw clips.

He was reposting the clips of it. I know. And even lawyers were like, I do not know why you are, you know, there's a lot of lawyers who do reaction videos on YouTube. Yeah. Like the bearded lawyer, for example, did, uh, he might even be a, a local guy. The bearded lawyer? There's a guy on YouTube, the bearded lawyer. And he's like, I don't know what Grant is doing. It does seem like he's a little out of control, but he seemed a little out of control to me for a long time. I don't know. It's one of these things where he could get away with this forever, you know. I was speculating for a long time that he was getting very close to going to jail. The FBI had. him under surveillance. They had, um, really? They were doing undercover record. This is some of the

stuff that's come out. Uh, even when he had a falling out recently with his, um, former business partner, uh, Gary Brecker. You must know, have you ever interviewed Gary Brecker? The 10x health guy? No, we got close to interviewing him, but decided against it. I interviewed him. Oh, yeah. Is he a Scientologist? No. No. But he, uh, he, uh, he, one of the stories that he told is when Grant acknowledged to him that Grant knew the FBI had been recording, recording his offices, had people inside, some informants working in there. And it's one of these things where when the FBI surveillance of you gets to that level, that seems pretty incriminating. But on the other side, you'd be like, yeah, but they never brought a case. So maybe they must

not have found anything. Or they found something, but it wasn't enough. Like, who knows how these decisions get made? Yeah, sure. The SEC had him under investigation. Well, this was one of the hottest clips that came out in that deposition, is he sat there saying that, that, you know, that the SEC had fully cleared him of any wrongdoing. And the lawyer said, the SEC absolutely did not clear you of any wrongdoing. And he goes, yes, they did. And the lawyer gave him the letter from the SEC

and said, read paragraph X from this letter. And he goes, we are not bringing an enforcement action. And the lawyer said, yeah, read the next paragraph. And the next paragraph, this should in no way ever be interpreted to mean that you are being cleared of any wrongdoing. So, I don't know, but one way or another, the guy has not been prosecuted criminally. He's not been, the SEC has not taken action against him at this point.

And this class action lawsuit seems to be one of the last remaining things that's lingering over him. And I'm surprised he doesn't settle it, but I guess, I guess. And whatever happened with the Danny Masterson case? Oh, that guy's doing life in prison. Life. Yeah. Yeah, up to life. Yeah.

And Scientology was a huge part of helping him with that lawsuit. Oh, yeah. Well, that wasn't a lawsuit. That was a criminal prosecution. Criminal prosecution, yeah. Scientology was very active in silencing his victims. And again, it's kind of like the Beck situation. Scientology knew that Danny these women.

Scientology knew it. They did their own investigation and they determined it. This all came out in the trial. And they even permitted a financial settlement between, Danny and one of his Scientologist victims because they thought this would at least prevent this victim from ever going public in the future. So like not only did they investigate it, like Scientology doesn't let Scientologists extort their celebrities for money. There's no benefit in Scientology for coming forward and saying, a Scientologist celebrity invites me, okay?

Right. If anything, Scientology would generally come down pretty hard on one of its own rank-and-file members accusing one of its own celebrities of that, even internally. So the fact that Scientology arranged, not only permitted, but arranged this financial settlement, is just one of the many pieces of evidence that Scientology itself concluded, Dany Masterson committed these types. Yeah. And they are the ones who silenced the victims for as long as they were silenced.

God, dude. And that's why the Danny Masterson trial ended up being just as much of an indictment against Scientology as Danny himself. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cartel. It's a cartel. Just like, you know, they're no different, they're no different than, you know,

Mexican drug cartels or, you know, fucking huge corporations that are lobbying politicians to get away with crimes, right? Like at any level, I think we've seen that more recently. We've seen that, um, more, you know, in the public in the last couple months with like, all the shit the FBI's been doing with covering shit up and protecting fucking billionaire donors. It's just it all boils down to money at the end of the day. If you have enough money to pay off politicians, pay off judges and have fucking blackmail on people, you're just going to get away with shit in this country. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way it is. And, you know, I don't know if we're ever going to see Scientology taken down as long as they're breaking it as much money as they

have and fucking lobbying people and trying to control people in government as much as they are. I always say the good news is that they're failing already on their own. Government intervention would be amazing. Massive civil settlements would be amazing. Getting their tax exam status revoked would be amazing. I look forward to the day that those things happen. But Scientology is failing pretty quickly all on its own. In terms of membership, right?

I mean, you could have a billion, two billion. Okay, any individual can have $10 billion in the bank. Scientology can have money in the bank. But if you don't have members, what do you have? What do you have? Right. I mean, I guess as someone who grew up, in it and I see the death of the organization as the loss of its members. Someone else might say,

well, as long as they have money, they're not really dead. If they keep shrinking, they're dead enough. And they still own all that real estate, right? Aren't they one of the biggest real estate holders in the country? I don't know if it's in the country. I mean, there's only, there's only about 50 recruitment centers in the entire country. So they might be one of the largest property, they might be the largest property owner in Clearwater, but they're just. they're definitely not the largest property owners in the country. I promise you that. So I guess I'm trying to be optimistic, right?

Scientology is losing members very, very quickly. It's getting harder and harder to recruit anybody. I measure the death of the organization as the loss of their membership. And I feel like that's in a death spiral that they will never recover from. I think they will be able to continue to accumulate money until they lose their tax-exempt status. And so that's why maybe the organization will always continue to exist. in some way, shape, or form for many years to come.

But I don't think they're going to ever get back to being able to actually recruit people into Scientology. Yeah. I really don't. I really don't. But so I feel like every day we have a little bit of success in taking Scientology down a little bit more. Even if their balance sheet is growing, I still look at the backside.

So you're still protesting every single week? Yeah. And I try to do videos every single day. And I still run the Foundation to help people leave Scientology. Are you still, are you interviewing, like, people who left Scientology pretty regularly? Like, former people. Not as much as I was the last few years. I mean, pretty much worked.

There's only 20,000 Scientologists in the entire world. So when you then go, okay, how many people left? Are there a lot overseas? Yeah, I'd say half of Scientology is out of the U.S. Half of Scientology is in the U.S. Yeah. Half is out of the U.S. Oh, yeah, I'd say half the recruitment centers are in, yeah, South America, Europe, Australia.

Absolutely. Pretty much every European country has a recruitment center in it. Huh. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. So you can maybe 10,000 Scientologists in the U.S., maybe 10,000 Scientologists everywhere else in the world as well. Right, right.

You know. Less every day, though. Yeah. Well, dude, thanks for doing this, brother. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Tell people out there, like the name of your channel, all that stuff. Growing up in Scientology is where I do all my stuff.

Everything else just trickles down from there, whether it's Facebook or Instagram or X or whatever, but you can find me on YouTube at growing up in Scientology. Or on the corner of Fort Harrison at the beach by the gas station. Chestnut and Fort Harrison. Look 500 feet away from the Scientology flag building. You'll find Aaron waving a flag. Cool, bro. Well, thanks again.

We'll link all your shit below for folks to find. Thanks for having me. That's all folks.