Danny Jones Podcast - #63 - Miami’s Darklord of Credit Card Scams | John Boseak

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

At 26 years old John Boseak was one of the most prolific manufacturers of counterfeit credit cards in the international cyber crime industry. He Went from a homeless kid on the streets of Miami at 14 years old, to one of the most cunning scammers, counterfeiters, identity thieves and escape artists ever. He was even selling credit cards to the Russian mob at one point.  BENT: https://amzn.to/36djo4T John's Channel: https://bit.ly/2J6U0pF Matt's Channel: http://bit.ly/2EoqWnM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're going to start posting each podcast episode that you see on YouTube a week earlier on Patreon. So feel free to join for early access to all episodes. Plus, we're going to start doing bonus podcast episodes every week. So if you want to join Patreon, it's patreon.com slash concrete videos. Next week's episode is already posted there, so feel free to go check it out. Hello, world. Today's guest is John Boziak. John is an insane character and a notorious cyber criminal.

Matt Cox actually met John in prison and ended up writing a book about his story. It's called Bent. At 26 years old, John was the most prolific manufacturer of counterfeit credit cards in the entire international cybercrime industry. This kid went from being homeless at the age of 14 in the streets of Miami to one of the most cunning scammers and identity thieves ever. He was even selling credit cards to the Russian market. Bob at one point. We went in on some crazy, crazy stories that he told about his life, scamming and running from the Secret Service. Anyways, I hope you enjoy this podcast as much as I did. It was wild. Without further ado, please welcome John Oziac. Thanks for coming on, John. I appreciate you coming down here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Your story is super interesting. I'm so glad that you were able to meet Matt in prison and tell him your story because it is wild. Yeah. You were at age 26, one of the, or the most prolific credit card scammer in the world. Is that right? I wouldn't say the world, but, yeah. Matt was just trying to spice it up. Yeah. I said one-up.

I was definitely, yeah, I was definitely doing something. I was shaking and moving, yeah. Why are you here, Matt? Okay. Why are you here with John? Only because it's comical, like, if you, just to, because guys will be, you know, guys will be watching and they'll be like, besides the fact that you're the most popular guests in history. And I'm just, and I'm just.

and I'm just sitting here going, you know, other than that, be like, why's Cox here? So, okay, so. I think the hardcore fans know while you're here, but let's go ahead and. Okay, but still. Yeah, let's tell everyone why here.

That's a thousand people. You know what I'm saying? You're looking for 100,000. Hopefully. So what ends up happening is, so when I was in prison, that's when I met, I would say boziak,

but what do you want to go with John? What are you going? You're going with John, John? Whatever you want. Yeah, let's go with John. Okay, John. So, basically, I was in prison. I didn't even talk to him for like the first couple months because he's walking around. I just, I thought he was here for drugs. I knew he had a short sentence. So I didn't think, there's no reason to talk to some guy who's, who's going to be gone in six months or a year. No reason even, but we, I was standing in line one day. How did you, how did you, like, I don't even, I don't even remember how. How did you, how did you figure out like the whole fraud thing? Like, so we were standing. So we were standing. in line.

Chauhall. And we were standing there. Somebody came up and just somebody happened to come up to me and say, you know, like some other guy had been around, what had just gotten there or whatever, and they were talking about me because they were not a ton of fraud guys.

And somebody said, hey, cock, what did you get charged with? And I was standing there and I said, you know, fucking bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud, passport fraud. You know, I started just name it off and I got to aggravated identity theft

and he's standing behind me and he goes, he goes, that's what I'm here, he's what I got charged for. Remember I turned around I looked at it and I go. I remember that. You don't remember that?

No, I don't remember. And I remember I said, really, I said, I just figured you were here for meth. And you went like this and you go, what made you think that? You started laughing. And I thought, because you had a little tattoos and I thought, this dude's all right. And then I said, well, what did you do? What do you mean aggravated identity theft? And you go, yeah, I was doing.

And you started telling me, by the time we got to our fucking, or got to our food, I was thinking, oh, I got to hear this whole story. He sat in the chow hall until they closed the fucker down. Oh, yeah. We were the last two motherfuckers in there. That's right. Guards are telling everybody to leave. We're just like, all right. I mean, he just fucking told me.

I remember that. Because remember, um, uh, uh, Kingpin? When you were halfway through your story, I was like, this is just like Kingpin. The book, there's a book called Kingpin. Yeah. And I was like, this is just like Kingpin. And you said, I was on that fucking form. I was, I know some of those guys.

Yeah, those two guys were inspired me to do fraud, to do credit card fraud. Those were like, when I, when I, when I like, Max, uh, Butler. No, Max, Max, what Max, Max Butler? Max Butler. I watched their Inside True Crime episode on MSNBC. That's good shit. And that's when it fucking blew the whole thing open for me. I was like, oh, okay.

And that's when I said, man, I got to write, I got to write your fucking story. I feel like I've interviewed a lot of people who have done crazy crimes on this podcast. And I feel like yours is different because your story is just like from where you came, where you came from in Miami. You were like a homeless kid, a super young homeless kid. Yeah. Yeah, I was pretty much doing my own thing from a pretty young age. Yeah. I always find it interesting people like you who come from that kind of background with basically no parents.

At what age were you homeless from like what age to what age? Like when did you first become homeless? Yeah. That's a difficult one. Technically, there's different stages of homelessness, I guess. I mean, you know, you've got the straight up sleeping behind a fucking dumpster, eating out of trash can homeless. and then you've got like the kind of like I'm just couch surfing, staying at people's houses, homeless.

So, yeah, so like probably 13, 13 or 14 years old. I was just gone. Yeah. Out doing my own thing, sleeping on couches, staying out all night, you know, no curfew, no rules. What's great, what's the crazy parallel that I guess I made with your story is that you find a lot of really successful people, a lot of successful entrepreneurs come from that same type of. background where they're kind of like disconnected from their parents or their parents abandoned them or whatever and they just had to figure it out on their own um so i just found found your story super fascinating in that regard yeah it's the adversity um i think i think the adversity uh built character

in the long run you know people who have had struggle early on in life um usually tend to do pretty great things later on in life it equipped me to deal with situations situations later on in life that would break most people. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it allowed me to sort of live in this frame of mind where I just, I don't really give a fuck. Because I've slept on the street.

I've eaten out of trash cans. I've been at rock bottom. And once you've been at rock bottom, you're not scared to go back because there's only one way to go but up from there, you know. And I, yeah, like I said, all of the adversity I had to go through early on, I think definitely set me up for success in a weird way. Yeah. You know.

So how did you get into this world of scamming? Growing up on the street, you had to survive. Yeah. You know, so it was shoplifting, and it was figuring out ways to get free food, and it was figuring out ways to scam this and it was figuring out ways to scam this and figured out ways to scam that. You know, so it always starts small, and then it builds over time, over time and over time. And over the years, it just gets bigger and bigger and the scams get bigger. And the risks get bigger. And, yeah, so it starts small.

You know, it started with, I think I started making fake coupons for on the computer using Photoshop to go and get free food. You know, and then it went from there to scamming the library system, trying to figure out how to get free Internet service and, you know what I mean, trying to figure out how to get free streams online with. and, you know, it's just been a never-ending saga. Fraud has been such a huge part of my life, unfortunately. And the fraud that you were committing was heavily influenced by your skills in design and Photoshop.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, I was always been interested in graphic design and media arts and stuff like that. Right. Always played around the computer and did a little bit of web development, graphic design. and that yeah it allowed me to to see okay I can do this and I was at an artistic spin out like I can do this or I can do that or if this scam comes along I'm able to you know figure out how to

to work every angle of it pretty much just through that one avenue so initially you were what was it you were just trying to get by you were just trying to eat and put clothes on your back is that why I didn't want to work I didn't want to work a job right yeah I didn't want to work a regular 9 to 5 To me, this is going to sound insane, but I would rather commit suicide or spend the rest of my life in prison than work a regular 9 to 5 job. It's just not in the cards for me. Yeah, I can relate to you there. It's just not something I can't do it.

I can't wake up every day and go to the same building and punch a clock. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, there's a ceiling. Yeah, for sure. You take what I'm saying? Yeah. You're always going to have that limitation placed on you. You know, and I can't, I can't live with limitations.

I can't. It limits my thinking. It limits my, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So you started out homeless, scamming, doing like little scams, like trying to scam people with fake lottery tickets and coupons, right? Mm-hmm. How do you graduate from that to literally printing thousands and thousands of credit cards? and making millions of dollars a month.

Well, that didn't happen overnight. It was a slow process. I started buying cards myself online and using them. When you say buying cards, what do you mean by that? Plastic. I'm not sure how deep you want to get into it. As deep as we can get. Balls deep, baby.

The forums, yeah. The credit card forms. Okay, well, I guess the easiest way to explain it is to kind of break it down and how the whole thing actually kind of works is anytime you go to a store and you use your debit card and you swipe that magnetic strip.

Yeah. That information that's stored on that magnetic strip is sent to a server somewhere and it's held. Well, these kids over in Russia or Ukraine or wherever these kids are, they hack on. They get these numbers.

And these numbers by themselves are useless. I mean, you can't go online and buy any. anything with them. You know, it's pretty much just a raw metadata that's encoded to the back of your plastic card. Right. Now, they sell this information for $5, $7, $10, $20 a pop, whatever.

Now, with that information, you have to have another piece of equipment and you have to have a physical card to write that information to be able to clone, to copy, to go, to use it in the retail setting. You follow along so far? Yeah. And basically, so basically what you do is you got two different vendors. that you can find. And you've got different various avenues

to get to these vendors. You know, you got, back when I was doing, this is back in the early 2000s, there was carding forums, which don't really exist anymore. The FBI and Secret Service and everything did a pretty good job

with shutting them all down. But, yeah, you go to these websites and you go to these pages and you get these numbers and you code them to the cards, you go out and use them. And this is what I was doing in the beginning. You know, I would log on,

I would figure out what numbers were working, and they're called dumps is the terminology. Dumps? Yeah, that's the terminology for the track information. Yeah, it's like a, it's a dump of information. Okay. Yeah, that's the terminology. And this is the black strip on the back of the credit card?

The magnetic strip in the back of the credit card. Correct. Yeah. That's the dump. Yeah, that's your track information. It's referred to as a dump if you're going to purchase it on the black market. And so, yeah, you know, I would purchase these dumps and I would, you know, have to figure out the plastic to write them to.

And at that time, the plastic was expensive. Like, vendors selling plastic was like $100, $200, $200 a piece for one single card that they would print, that they would make, and they would sell it to you. And then you would have a piece of equipment called an MSR 206 reader writer, and you would have to encode, you know, write your own, encode your own cards and figure out how to use them. And you're buying these legally, like in the U.S.? The cars, the cars were illegal. No, no, no, this is all illegal. There's nothing about this that's legal at all, yeah. It's fraud all the way around.

Sorry. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a podcast. Oh, stop. Your stuff's going to stop.

Typically, you turn your phone off. Oh, yeah, right, right. Yeah, it's fraud all the way around. Okay.

I'm kind of being middleed, you know? The money is not, the money to me, wasn't in using the cards at the stores, like the retail. I mean, it was fun at first, you know, being able to walk into a store and pretty much swipe and, you know, get whatever you want. There's a rush. There's a certain rush to it. You know what I mean? But when you look at it from a financial standpoint, it just, it wasn't sustainable for any kind of long term. Because you're taking too much risk.

You know, I'm walking in, I'm putting my face on 100 different cameras every day. And let's say on a good day you hit five Walmarts and you got a laptop from every Walmart. You're doing good, right? You got five laptops. You can go and sell them. But once you do that, you've got to go back and get five more. And you got to go back and get five more. You got to go back and get five more.

You need a way to scale. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I can't. It's just, like I said, it's just, I needed a, I needed, I needed, I needed, I needed, less risk. Where do the money come from, though? So you're buying, the dump, so the information. That's your information.

citizens information. Okay, so the dumps that you're buying is some victim. Well, yeah, like I explained in the beginning, it's like when you go to any store and you swipe your debit card, that information is saved somewhere. Okay. And then that information is subsequently hacked. Got it. From whoever, and then sold on the market. Got it.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's the first, that's like the front end of the operation. The back end of the operation is the actual manufacturing of the cards themselves. And there's like a whole other market for that as well. You know, like, so there's people who sell just plastics. They're called plastic vendors, which is what I eventually ended up making all my money.

It's where I found my success at later was with just actually being a plastics vendor, myself selling plastic. You know, but like in the beginning, I didn't know. I was green. Like I had no fucking idea, you know, so I'm using them in stores. I'm sorry, can I say something? But basically. You like to interject? Yes, I like to interject.

Yeah, you had to raise your hand and ask for your measure. Basically, but it was, you were, you were, at that point, it was your brother who kind of came, had mentioned. Yeah, yeah. Is that what you mean? Like, how did he get into it? Yeah, yeah. A little bit. He kind of put me up on game, kind of turned me on to it. And then it kind of built from there. So it's like he didn't come out of the gate knowing this. It's like it was, you know, the brother.

There was a lot of mistakes made. They slowly started, yeah. There's a lot of mistakes made. I mean, I would go to a store and all my cards would get declined. And I've been chased out of stores by security. I've been, you know what I mean? Like, there's plenty of trial and error to this whole thing. You know, I just didn't start off making crazy amounts of money.

You know, it took, I took about two years, actually, of just slowly, you know, building and working on the product and trying to, trying to make it better and trying to figure out, you know, little by little by little by little. So you're buying these cards loaded up with people's information. You're going to stores. You're buying laptops. You're buying electronics and shit. What do you want? You're selling it on eBay?

Yeah, Craigslist. Yeah, Craigslist and everything, pretty much, yeah. Okay. And what kind of money are you making doing that? It was up and down, man. You know, because, like, another part of the problem is you really don't. don't know what each limit of each card's going to be. Because I don't know how much money you have in your bank account.

You know what I mean? So it's like if I'm walking into a store, I don't know, I don't know how much I'm going to swipe for. So it was never consistent. So it was like maybe I'd make a couple thousand dollars one week. And then the next week I'd lose a couple thousand dollars. You know what I mean? Or the next week I'd make $3,000. And then the next week I would make $500.

So the money was never consistent. And it was like every store you go into. It's like you've got to watch security and you've got to pick your person at the counter and it's like a whole It becomes exhausting after a while Right. So how did you graduate from?

What did you graduate to after that? And how did you step it up a level? Yeah, well I started doing online carding actually Which normally people usually do the online carding first But I started to got into the online carding second And that's when I got onto the online, I really got into the online forums because the online carding pushed me more online.

Because the fiscal carding is just more, okay, I'm going to buy it, and I'm in the stores all day long. I'm out doing the stores, and I'm doing the physical aspect part of it. But when I really started getting into the online carding is when I started getting into, like, the carding forums, and I started reading tutorials,

and I started talking to other guys that were doing fraud, and I kind of, you know what I mean? Like, there was some guys that would do a bunch of fraud, and they would just write a whole matrix on it. What year was this? 2004, 2005. So this is pre-Silk Road. This is pre-Silk Road.

This is pre-Silk Road. Yeah, like the Silk Road didn't even exist at this time. There was no Dark Web Silk Road. Right. It just didn't exist. So I was using IRC chats and I was using carding forums. There was no Bitcoin. Was there?

Bitcoin was in its infancy. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Which I invested, believe it or not, I invested, I think, somewhere around $2,500 in Bitcoin when they first kicked off. And that, I would be a multimillionaire. by now. I would be 100 times over.

Holy fuck. Yeah, but that laptop that that Bitcoin on was confiscated by the Secret Service. No way. Yeah, so the Secret Service has a laptop now with probably $100 million on it.

I mean, I don't know what the conversion rate is now. I mean, you know, I mean, do the math. 2005. Bitcoin is at what, like $12,000? It's at like $12,000 right now?

So yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Mm. Major bummer. Fuck. All right. So you're on the,

you're on these forums. So I got in the online. forums and I really open my eyes to the whole world of carding and fraud and the actual technical side behind it on the back end and that's when I kind of figured out where the money was at like where the money

is to be made at and it was in plastic it was in plastic because the guy making the most money wasn't the guy mining the gold it was the guy selling the pickaxes you know what I mean and that's where my mind went to and I was like you know what I'm love that analogy I love that I was just thinking of that

I have a good friend who said that to me years ago, and that's always stuck with me. Yeah, and it made sense to me, too, at the time. And I was like, okay, well, where's the money at? Where's the money at? And let's sit down and look at this whole thing subjectively. Let's look at everything. And if I figure out where the money is.

And once I figured that out, then I started working at that little puzzle. Okay. So how did you figure out that piece of the puzzle? How did you start? Trial and error, man. How did you start making these pickaxes, these credit cards? Yeah. I bought just a piece of the puzzle.

I bought just a piece of shit, cheap fucking, I think it was like a Fargo DTC printer from eBay. It was like $200. And the cards that you made with it were shit, like the quality. They never printed right or anything like that. And I was making them. I was fucking going out to the store trying to use them.

You know what I mean? And I was getting ran out of stores. And so it was like, so I had to start with like a real low tech operation. Like I was using like a manual embosser to push the numbers in the cards. I had a big fucking wheel in it with all the fucking characters. And you had like an old, you know, like an old rotary phone.

Yeah, like a typewriter. And you had to physically stamp out the card, you know. So I started, I started real, real low tech, you know. And then I knew, you know, the better equipment, I did, you know, get the money and buy the better printer, by the manual or the automatic embosser, by the heat, the foil stamper. And it's just, I knew every piece of equipment I had to buy to make my product better. And that was like the main, that was like the first main goal. Where do you buy like the blank, the actual physical blanks? Oh, there's a website.

There's a, that sells like all that crap. That sells like the printer ribbons for the printer for the Fargo printers. They sell the blank. Because none of this equipment is illegal to own or purchase. Right. I mean, you can purchase all this equipment for, you know, for your business. Make gift cards. Say you want to do employee ID badges or hospitals and banks and all, you know,

also like all this equipment is, it's readily available on the internet. You just got to know where to look. Right. Yeah. Okay. So how did you, what kind of money were you making? Like, like, in the beginning I wasn't. Like in the beginning, you were just buying shit and selling it on.

I was in the hole in the beginning. Like, I've lost so much money doing all this crap. I think I pour so much money in the beginning. It was just ridiculous. I mean, I was getting robbed. You know what I mean? Like, there's a bunch of scammers online. Like, you got to go through that whole rigmarole and get robbed 10 times before you actually find somebody who's legitimate.

And so. Really? Yeah. It's a whole. I mean, you're dealing with scumbags. There's no like, there's no like, like, uh, like, rating system like on eBay. There is now. There is now.

Oh, there is now. Yeah. I mean, they've got escrow services and shit now for fraud. Like, say I want to, say I want to buy like 100 pieces of plastic off a vendor and I don't, I've never purchased for me before. Well, there's a, there's a fucking fraud escrow service where you send the money to escrow. I get my, I get my product. I tell escrow, okay, I'm satisfied with it and they go ahead and release the money to the vendor.

Wow. Like, it's all fucking. It's legit now. It's all corporate now. Yeah, that's all corporate. Yeah, I was back in the Flintstone days, man. I was one of the first pioneers of this whole fucking thing. That's fucking wild, dude.

Yeah. It's all Star Trek. Is this stuff still going on right? Like today? The game's changed a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, it's still the same.

It's still the same. But, you know, banks have cracked down a lot harder. You know what I mean? So say I would buy a hundred dumps, 100 cards, and they were from, like, California. And I was in Michigan. And I tried to use them in Michigan. They would get declined right away. Now they would.

Before, it wasn't so much. But now it's, yeah. Now it's the whole game's changed. And I don't even know. know if there's a whole lot of money left in it anymore, you know? Yeah. Not like there was before anyway. So you had like some hot chick you were dating, right?

Which one? What part of the story was this? You were dating, you were to help you along? You mean, is this the one that was, you were dating some like hot chick? Felicia. She was like blackmailing you saying she's going to rat you out. She said that you had like, or you said in the story it says that you had all these like expensive clothes and your apartment and he had a bunch of shoes and watches and jewelry and all kinds of shit you were

buying yeah yeah she was a piece of shit how much money how much money did you have then like at that point when you were living with her uh maybe 60 grand 80 grand it was less than a hundred thousand dollars i think i had that point in time because i was living i was in michigan i was in Detroit at that time it was this on the flintstone machine no this is i was actually i was actually doing something he was car you were car yeah i was i was in full swing now you were in full swing Yeah, I was in full swing when I was with her. Okay. That was just, you weren't making the cards at that point.

These were just, this was, you and your brother were just carting. No, no, no. When I was with Felicia, I was, this is after me, my brother had already done the thing, and I was in Michigan. Okay. And then I was, you know, going back or whatever, but yeah, yeah. So why did you move to Michigan? You went from Miami to Michigan. My whole family's from Michigan.

Okay. Yeah. So you were originally from Michigan. I was born in Michigan. Okay. Yeah. And you went back when? Um,

this was right before, right before I met my wife, right before I got caught in Temple Terrace. So this was probably 2007, 2008 or something like that. Yeah, I'm not really. Okay.

The details are fun. I smoke a lot of pot, dude, so like, you know, fine details with me could be. That 300 milligrams is kicking in right now. I think so a little bit, yeah. Yeah. But, um.

But, um. But, um. Do you have a probation? officer are you might allow to say that? Me? No, no, no, I'm good. Oh, you're good. Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Hell yeah. Yeah, I got out of prison and I went right back to prison after I got out and then I had like three years of paper and they fucking killed my paper. How long were you in prison for total? I did 24 months. Total. 24 months. That's it? Yeah. Jesus Christ, Matt. How long were you in for? You were in for like nine years? Fucking 12 and a half, almost 13 years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got lucky. Yeah, I got lucky. And this dude made more money than you made. Yeah. He was supposed to get like 10 years. Yeah, they were trying to slam me. They were really trying to slam me. I had the best lawyer ever. How the hell did you get out of all that? Yeah, huh?

How did you get out of all of this? I had a good lawyer. Wow. That's amazing, man. Yeah, she was just, she just took a liking to me and just did not want to see me doing all that time. Okay, so let's go back. Let's go back in time. Let's go through this thing chronologically.

You have the Flintstone credit card printer. You're just starting. to get into low tech, low tech operations. Low tech. So what starts happening after that? I started progressively making a little bit more money. Mm-hmm.

And I was able to slowly just start upgrading every piece of equipment to make a better product. Okay. So that was kind of like, I say about a year. It took about a year, really, to get going to really get like the good equipment, you know, to where I could make a credit card that looks like it came straight from the bank. Mm-hmm. And when I got to that point, I was like, okay, I kind of knew.

Like, I didn't have the clientele yet, but I knew I had the product. I knew I had the product right, you know? Were you honing in, like, the design of these cards? The templates. Yeah, the templates. Everything had to be right. I mean, I had to figure out how to make the Visa logo. Because there's, like, there's holograms and shit built into these cards.

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty technical the way to design them. Yeah. Chinese guys. Yeah. How did you do that? The hologram issue, I found a dude in China. Yeah, I found a,

I found a dude in China that owned a printing company, and I basically... The Alibaba? I was Alibaba, or was it... I know Fyber wasn't around by now, like that. D.H. Gate. That's still around? Oh, they're still cranking. Holy shit, that's funny. So, yeah, so I found a dude on there, and I cut out a credit card.

I cut one out over, like a real credit card, and then I mailed it to him, to China. And I was like, can you do this for me? I was like, I sent him to me a sample. And I sent it to him, and I think, like, six weeks later, I got like a roll of like 5,000 Visa and MasterCard holograms, heat press hollows. Damn. Yeah. Yeah.

And then once I had those, it was a wrap. Because I mean, my graphic design game is pretty dope. Is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm a wizard with that shit. I've always have been, you know, it's just something that I've just always been natural with. And so, yeah, I mean, once I did that and once I had that, the holograms and once I had the actual physical product made,

once I figured out how to make the Visa logo. once I had figured out how to do the sigismic strip on the back, the signature strip on the back, because that's like a whole thing. And then there's like this rear indent embossing. I had to figure that out. So there was hurdles. And it took a while.

It took like six or eight months before I had like a verifiable, certifiable, like, you know, a product that you just couldn't shoot holes in. There's no way. It would be completely indistinguishable from a regular credit card. Yeah.

If you put your, from Bank of America and you put mine next to it, there'd be no difference. There'd be no difference. That's fucking crazy, man. Yeah. Yeah. So, so what are you doing with that?

So now you're making these credit cards and you're selling them on these forums or what? I started using them. Okay. Okay. Because I didn't really. To test them out? Yeah, to, you know, just to see, do test runs and flying colors. You know, nobody even bad at eyelash.

I never had one issue, never one single issue. Maybe a couple declines, you know, just because the dump information wasn't probably, you know, good or whatever. but yeah yeah so I was using them and then I figured out okay let me get on the forum and I was already dealing with people on the forum from buying buy in dumps and buying you know buying plastic and stuff like that so I just I talked a few of my guys on the forum and I had to get you know they had to vouch for me but since I'd already been on the forum for a year and I have two years that wasn't a really a big deal you know and I was on two or three different forums so like I was pretty well known in the community you know it's just like somebody

like a popular screen name I did yeah US Plastico U.S. Plastico. That's what probably, in the long run, that's what probably got me fucked. I was trying to be clever. And you know what I mean? You're trying to brand yourself. I was. I was thinking, you know, I should have just been like, you know, anonymous or whatever.

So I think that's... But you have to stay consistent in that scam world, though, right? I mean, people have to know who you are to be able to trust you. So it was like a double-edged sword. Yeah. And like I said, I had two years in at that point. And I knew all the major players in the game and I knew who was doing what, just from being on the forums and, you know, being on IRC.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what happens next? My products got better. Sorry. Did you already meet Milmo Man at this? No, Melmo Man came after I got on to Dark Market. Okay.

But I wasn't on. No, that was Carter.S.U. I met Melmo Man. And that came later. That came, you know, that was probably towards the very end, like, at the very pinnacle of my career, if you want to put it that way. Melmo Man? Yeah, Melmo Man was. The dude who opened up all the doors for me in the, in the carding world.

Really? He had all the, he knew, yeah, he plugged me in. So you still, at this point, at this point, you got the guy from China who, who printed thousands of these holograms for you for your credit cards. Yeah. You had these fucking rock solid, fake credit cards that you made. Yeah. But you still had like a long way to go before you reached your peak.

Oh, yeah. Well, I had no clientele. Okay. I had no clientele. And it took a while. It took maybe six months. to build, to build trust in the community and to build clientele.

So, thousands of these credit cards, you're literally taking these little holograms and you're physically, like, placing them on each of these credit cards with your hands, like hand by hand. Each one. Each credit card. Holy shit, dude.

How long does that take? How long does it take to do one card? Oh, I had it down. I could print one card in less than five minutes. I could print everything. Print it, stick everything onto it? Yeah, well, yeah. See, I would already have.

all the, I would already have all the templates lined up in Photoshop. Okay. Like ready to go. All my windows open. Bam, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb. You know what I mean? And then I would load maybe like 10 or 15 cards in the printer. And I would be like, okay, print in sequence.

Print one, print two, print three, print four, print five. So then it would run out all the cards, print them front and back. You know what I mean? It would print the, put all, and the only thing I really had to do myself was emboss and do the hologram. So I would have to physically place the hologram myself and use a heat press to adhere to the plastic. And then I would have to manually emboss the card myself. And this is before I got the auto embosser,

where I could just throw them in and do a batch, and it would run 50 or 100 at a time. Damn. Yeah. So when I got down, when I got really efficient at it, I could maybe do 100 cards in an hour. About an hour. I could print hologram and emboss about 100 cards.

So you were close to 100,000 cards in a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm cranking away. But then, you know, sometimes you have problems. The printer starts, gets, too hot and starts fucking melting cards and printing shit sideways you know so you've always got little issues

right yeah like that you gotta deal with but yeah I can do a thousand cards in a day what's the most cards that you did in a day you think that I've manufactured in one day I think I've done about 800 between 6 and 800 in one day you know on a good day if everything was going right and I had all my equipment

operating properly yeah okay so how did you start getting this getting this out there on online on these black market on the dark web and start getting customers to buy shitloads of them. Yeah. So, so the initially the first Carter forum that I was on, I went ahead and I just made my first post. Here I am, new vendor.

Right. Here's my product. You know, you post pictures. It's like a whole, well, it was like a whole thing not anymore. And then, you know, I would get maybe like one or two orders a month, you know. And then once those orders came in and like people started leaving positive feedback, it just kind of snowballed after that. And then I remember the day. day, because I would only get maybe one or two orders,

but I remember the day I woke up, and I checked, I think I checked one of my emails, and I had 15 or 20, 20 orders waiting for me, and I couldn't believe it. How much, how much is $1,000? $1,000. Yeah. For how many cards?

$100. A hundred cards. Yeah, it's $20 a card, 100 cards, two drivers, or you'd make IDs for you, however many you wanted, and then I would do, I think it was like 100 cards, embossed, everything, encoded, numbers. And IDs?

and IDs. Yeah. Holy shit. But I wouldn't make 100 IDs. Obviously I'd make like two or three. Okay. You know. Or whatever they wanted.

But it mean, you know, so there was a cap on that. So the IDs have to obviously correspond with the credit cards? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because say you go to a store and you make a purchase and it's over like $3 or $400. Like a lot of stores, like people don't realize this, but a lot of stores, like say Best Buy. You go to Best Buy.

You make a purchase over $300. They ask, physically ask for your card. And they physically, take your card and they go on their POS machine. Now their POS machine, the point of sale service machine, won't let them process the sale unless the four digits on the front of the card match was actually encoded to the card. So it's like a security step.

So what they do is they take the card and they punch the numbers into the computer because you've already swiped it. So they're going to punch these numbers in. These numbers in the front of the card don't match what's being swiped. It's automatic fraud. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you have to have the corresponding plastic.

to match the numbers, and you have to have the ID because they're going to ask for for ID because, A, I don't have the people's PIN number. So you're not processing it as debit. You always have to process it as credit, even though it's a debit card. Got it. So they have to have ID. When you process anything for credit, they always ask for ID, always, especially if it's a big purchase. Right.

You know. Huh. Louis Vuitton, you go to Louis Vuitton and try and buy a $2,000 handbag on a credit card. They're going to ask you for ID. Right, right. 1,000%. Yeah. You know?

Even if you go in there looking the part, they're still going to have. They always ask for ID. Right. You know. So you have to have the ID to match the card. Everything has the jive. The numbers, everything has to be coherent. Okay.

So is there a minimum number of cards they had to buy for one order? So is the minimum $100? It was a $1,000 minimum order. Okay. So it was 100 cards. And then I would work with them on the IDs, like whatever they wanted. Okay. Because those were easy to make.

Cool. So that's good money. You're getting a couple orders a day, making a couple thousand months a day? I was doing like one or two orders a month. And then, like I said, I woke up that one morning, and I remember I had 20 orders waiting on me. I couldn't believe it. One morning, you just had 20 orders.

I had 20 waiting on me, yeah. Yeah, I remember that day distinctively. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I was running around the house jumping off the fucking furniture, dude. Were you? Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I mean, 20 grand, that's a lot of money for somebody who doesn't have shit. And for somebody who's been getting robbed and pouring all their fucking every dollar

they've had into this shit for the past two and a half years and not going anywhere. You know? So to me, this was victory. This was, you know, I made it. Right. So what else are you doing in the meantime besides, I mean, obviously you're just sitting online, like you have your info sitting online people to order. And there's only so much time you're spending making these cards. What else are you doing? I was doing some online carding. I was doing some virtual carding. I was doing virtual carding.

I was still going in stores here and there. And, you know, mind you, I wasn't spending any money at this time either, so I had cards. If I needed a gas, I would go fucking fill up with a card at the gas station. If I needed groceries, I would take a card to the grocery store and buy $300, $400 in groceries. You know? So all my money is basically just going in a fucking shoebox in the closet, and I'm not really spending any of it. Wow. Yeah.

And at this point in time, I had been living off of credit cards, stolen credit cards for probably three and a half years. Like, I didn't have a job for three and a half years. I was just using stolen credit cards for everything. Where, what were you living? At this point, I was in Coral Springs. Okay. You'd pay your rent with the credit cards? Oh, well, I would just go, if like, when rent time would roll around, I'd go grab a laptop or two laptops. Get cash. Just cash it out, go pay $1,000 for rent or whatever. Yeah. Wow, dude. What a fucking life. How old were you? Early 20? At this point, early 20,000. When you had the 20,000, or 20,000, or 20,000, dollar order early 20s?

Yeah, I was about 25. 24, 25. Okay. Yeah. When did, when is shoulder surfer come? Shoulder Surfer and Memo Man came in later about 2008, I think early 2008. Who's Shoulder Surfer?

Shoulder surfer is another dude from the, from the, from the, from the, uh, forums. Okay. That I was dealing with. Just another, another scam artist, another scammer. And what was his, what was his story? He used to weird doing cash outs. so I would send him cards and then he would I think he was the guy running the

I thought he was he was the Russian contact shoulder surfer oh I'm sorry Melmo man Melmo man me and Melmo man I'm sorry yeah yeah I was just I was just thinking the gummies are kicking in yeah the gummies are kicking in yeah no you're absolutely right yeah he wrote the book I just lived it I mean he knows all the facts I'm fucking fuzzy well you know what's funny is is when I was writing the book

like he, you know, like, you know, it's like, like, Milmo Man. Like, he would, he had been talking about Milmo Man. I have all these notes with Milmo Man, Milmo Man. And Milo Man had introduced him to shoulder surfers. It's like, how do you even verify that these people are, and I actually had a, uh, I actually got a police report in where his brother had been arrested and like a Target or a Walmart or something. I know what he, you know, Target.

Yeah, he got arrested in Target. And, um, and, and this, they, they. went on the forum. The police officer went on the forum and actually took a screenshot of the forum and it showed everybody that had been on the forum that day and Milmo Man was actually one of the people on there. Like you've been writing it down over and over again. I just started reading through the names and sure enough I was like holy shit there's Milmo Man. But yeah, Milmo Man was the guy that it introduced you the rush that I'm sure I'm like to me Shouldersersers like to meet shoulders. Sorry that's what I was trying to think because I remember

when you told me the story and shoulder surfing is a term. for people that look over your shoulder or something like that. That's the original... Yeah, so they can get your PIN number or whatever. It's just a tactic. Yeah, back when... A social engineering tactic.

Like he was so old. He'd been doing it so long that his handle was Shoulder Surfer, which is a thing that you wouldn't even know about. It's like when you used to have like cards, you used to push, you used to view to call somebody long distance. You had a long distance card.

You had to punch in the PIN number. Shoulder surfing was where somebody would stand over your shirt. shoulder and I thought you said the camera's out alright go ahead someone

someone would stand over your shoulder and get the pen number and then they would sell it or be able to use the long distance and that guy had been

around so fucking long that was his handle was shoulder so that's like the 80s or 90s or something so the dude was old so that's what yeah I knew when you

not you mean to go off topic but did you know back in the day when they were back in the 80s when they were doing the long distance full call you had to put in the pin

and it would give you it would register the dial tone with the company to let them know that this was the tone to let you into the long distance phone call long-dign, you know what I mean? There was a whistle that they sold in a Captain Crunch cereal box that it was at a certain frequency

that you could blow it into the fucking phone it would give you free long-distance phone calls. What? Captain Crunch. Captain Crunch had a whistle. They used to sell in their cereal boxes that was at like a certain... Not on purpose.

It was at like a certain hurts. Like the frequency was at a certain hurts For some reason, it just, it allowed you to, if you blew it on the phone, you hit a certain digit and you blew the whistle, it would allow you to make a free long distance phone calls. Did you do this? Well, this is before my time, but. You just heard about it. Yeah, these are the scams I was like learning when I was a kid. You know, all this, it was, everything's digital.

This, we're talking analog shit. Yeah. All this shit was analog, you know, early 90s. Like Steve, you know, Steve Jobs and, what's the name? Bosniac. You know, they were selling that fucking box that allowed you to, that was like their first. little business was they were selling this little box that allowed you to get free long distance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was like, it's completely illegal. Like, that was the first thing they did was they sold these little, I forget what they called them, a blue box or something. And you could put in a tone and it would over the telephone and it would give you free long distance. So you were buying these boxes and they're selling you the boxes that allow you to fake out the telephone service so you could get free long distance. Wow. That was Steve Jobs's like, that was like their first little thing. Yeah. Before Apple.

Yeah. That's wild. But anyway, what I was trying to say was that when you started making the, when you met shoulder surfer, the Russian guy. That's when the money started rolling. How did you meet this dude? Shoulderser. On the forums? Yeah.

He's a Russian? I don't know. You never met him in real life. No, you don't know what any of these people are. I mean, I dealt with one dude for like two and a half years and I thought he was like this. In my mind, I thought he was like this nerdy fucking white dude. Turns out he was like this Jamaican fucking black dude from Canada. Whoa.

Yeah. And that we were, I was doing fraud with back and forth. orphan. Really? Yeah. Does you actually meet him in a person? No, but I ended up talking to him on the phone one day and like just through conversation, we kind of figured out, I kind of figured out like, you know, yeah, his ethnic, ethnicity.

That's so funny. If you deal with somebody for so long without meeting them. Yeah, you have no idea because I'm dealing with emails and screen names. Yeah. You know, everything's emails and screen names. Everything's anonymous. Yeah. You don't, and then when you build a rapport, you deal with somebody for years, then you might get

a phone call from him, you know. You might talk on the phone with them to, you know, try and organize something or do whatever you guys are doing. Are you paying, are you transacting everything in like with Bitcoin or are you? At this time I was using something called UMZ, which is called Web Monies. I think the FBI shut it down. And there was something else called Liberty Reserve, LRZ. And this is all, this is, this is pre-Bitcoin.

So then, and then after when Bitcoin came along, not too many people were hip to Bitcoin. And Bitcoin wasn't as easily accessible as it is today. like I can just open my Robin Hood app and buy Bitcoin and sell Bitcoin. Like you fucking couldn't do that back in the day. Like you had to go find somebody to cash your Bitcoin out. And then there was like all these sketchy like online Russian services. You had to go through to buy Bitcoin. Like it just wasn't like it is now.

So yeah, so a lot of it, most of it was Western Union. At the end of the day, it was Western Union. Really? It was like it was the bulk of the currency exchange I was getting. Yeah. So how did this shoulder surfer dude change, change? everything you were doing and change your business? He emailed me one day.

He asked me to send him 2,000 cards on front. Which is outrageous. What's that? 200 grand? Yeah, something like, no, well, yeah, 2000 car, yeah, it was something real ridiculous.

It was just real ridiculous. And I was just like, and he kind of put it out there. He's like, listen, I got this guy. He didn't tell me any days. He's like, I got this guy. He's trying to put something together. He's like, can you send me X amount of cards? I remember the thing was about 2,000 cards or something.

He's like, he's like, this is what I need, and he gave me a laundry list. And the dude's credible. Like, I know who he is. I know he makes money. I know, I know people personally that I've dealt with that he's made money in the past. Which is Mill Mo Man. That's why I was getting to Mill Mo Man. I was only saying Mill Mo Man.

Mill Mo Man basically introduced him to shoulder surfer, and that's when it kind of takes off. Yeah. Okay. So I was like, I'm like, what do I got to lose? I mean, it doesn't really cost me anything to make these cars. Like, there's no overhead on this. I mean, I can order 5,000. the machines now.

Yeah, I own everything. I mean. By the way, how much these machines cost you? The good one was about 5 grand. Okay. And it was a Fargo

HDP 5,000. So you just have these big, badass printers in your house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I had a, one bedroom was just all, it was all just fraud.

Just a print shop. Yeah, it was just a print shop. And then my, my, my wife was with at the time, we weren't married, but my girlfriend I was with at the time, we had our son, Nicholas,

he was a baby. And I would have him in the room with me while I'm printing all these fucking credit cards and like all the ones that would come out fucked up I would leave me a pile on the floor and he'd just be sitting in the middle of the floor playing with all these fucking you know what I mean all these half printed fucking credit cards and shit and it's like oh my gosh it's fucking whoa yeah yeah I'd find him all over the house because he'd run off with him you know what I mean I'd find I'd find credit cards in the

fucking in the couch underneath the bed he's like what a great memory that's sweet yeah yeah yeah so he'd stash credit cards all over the house and I'd have to find them fucking shred them a little shit Oh fuck Yeah Your kid show up to daycare With credit cards He's fallen out of his diaper

What does daddy do for let me make these? Yeah Yeah It was funny Melmo Man Mell-Mond plugged me in 200,000 shoulder surfer

Shoulder surfer 2,000 cards Roughly I don't remember what the exact number was I think it was a roundabout there Okay It was about there And um

So that You were doing really good after that After that whoever he plugged me in with, that was it. I was there. I was, I didn't sell to anybody else after that. I only sold to him. I didn't have to deal with anybody else.

Like I just, I pretty much just ignored everybody else. And I only dealt with him. Because he was doing, I think, like, a hundred orders a month. I think after it got, like, really big. Yeah, I think he was doing, I think about 100 orders a month after his fourth order.

It was every other day. He wanted it. He wanted a hundred car. Geez, dude. Every two or three days. You were physically doing all this? Yeah, everything myself. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, I had no code defendants. I had nobody in on it with me. I had nobody, you know, it was just me. Yeah, it was just me. What about security? What about the, like, you remember you were going, you said you were going through these different security,

the socket servers or? Oh, you're just talking about the VPN and the Sox proxy and all that shit like that. Yeah, just to hide my anonymity online. Yeah, like, how did this secret service, once they got involved and they knew what U.S. Plastico was and they came looking for you, how did they not track you down? Because they track me down in a second if I fucking go to do that. No, I mean, I wasn't dumb. I wasn't using my home IP address to do any of this shit. Right.

You know, that's just ignoramus. But how does that work? I'm saying you go to. Well, yeah, you download what's called a virtual private network, a VPN. It's usually just a service provider that hosts your, host like an IP address wherever you want. And then you've got something like a SOX proxy three and four, which, you know, just jump your,

they plug your IP address in to different servers and it makes it a little bit harder for, yeah, and this kind of what you're talking about, this at that time in the 2000, like early 2000s. Early 2000s, that is like advanced. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, imagine him telling me all this in prison.

I don't fucking have a clue what any of this, this is. at all. So there's something called a bin number, which is called a bank identification number. And the first six digits of any credit card or any credit card or any debit card will tell you what bank issued it. So when you get these dumps in, I had a directory where I could look up the bin. Are we recording? Yeah, we never stopped recording. Oh, okay.

Yeah, so the bin number, the first six digits of a card tells you what bank issues that card. Now, after a while, after just doing it, it's hit or miss. but then you kind of figure out which bins work good in what areas. Because that's what it really comes down to it. At the end of the day, it boils down to what regions the bins come from and what regions the bins are being used in. You know what I mean? Because now it all gets flagged automatically.

Like they've got software now and that's just automatically, you know, flags. Like say I'm from my, my, my, it's all done by zip code now. Like say mine's 85932 is my zip code and it's being used in a 859, 36 or something that's way outside of your zip code, the bank will automatically decline your shit and shut it down. You know what I mean? Then you got to call the bank or whatever. So, you know.

But yeah, you figure out which bins work. And it's just luck. It's either luck or, you know. So what were you just talking about? The VPNs and you were using VPNs to... Sure, yeah. I was using a SOX proxy on top of the VPN.

And do you think those proxies and the VPNs you were using, do you think that's the reason why you were able to stay out of trouble for so long? Yeah. I mean, I flew under the radar for, well, not, well, not. I don't think it was only that. It was because. Because you seemed like you were pretty, like, crazy. You didn't, I mean, you seemed like you were just kind of like a little bit reckless.

You didn't seem like the kind of guy who would be actively using, you know, using all this high-tech shit to stay under the radar and make sure and cross all your T's and dot all your eyes. You sound like you were a little bit reckless, too. My brother is really the one that got me to be like, you know what? always be paranoid, he told me. Always be paranoid. He's like, always have a contingency plan. Always be paranoid. And always act as if you're being watched.

You know what I mean? And he's the one that kind of taught me about your digital footprint. And that's how I learned about IP addresses and, you know what I mean? ISPs and DSNs and all that shit. Like I had no clue. I was clueless before. You know? And fraud is what really like got me into learning about all the IT.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were both carding. I mean, his brother's been caught. His brother's been fucking chased. His brother was on the run. My brother is an absolute genius.

He is. Yeah. Like, I know I'm smart, but there's a difference. There's smart. Like, I'm able to figure shit out. And I'm able to watch somebody do something and I can repeat it fast and quick. Like, I'm a fast learner. My brother is, comes up with the original, he just comes up with the original ideas.

Innovator. He's the innovator. He's the innovator. He just thinks outside of the box. He's just got this brilliance about him that allows him to just come up with these ideas that you would never even, the angle that you would just never think of

would be the first thing that he thinks of. Is this, is the, is his brilliance. So we wrote the outline, I wrote the whole outline. After I wrote the outline, I started writing the whole book. He got out and I wrote the whole book just with emails, emails between me and John,

and phone calls. And then, of course, he disappeared, which at the end of the book, he disappears. I went back to prison. But what happened is this. What I was going to say was when I put up, when I did the, I put up the, I had a website while I was still in prison,

and I put up the story. So I actually put up his story on my website just prior to getting out of prison, maybe a year or two in, or a year or two before I got out. I put up the story and I had, like, photos and stuff on it. I had his brother's mugshot on it. His brother contacted me and was like, hey, you know, shit, what's your brother's name? Christopher? Yeah, Christopher. Yeah. This is, you know, Chris Bozziak. I'm John's brother. When people run my name, your story comes up and it's causing me major fucking problems. I need you to remove my story and remove my name. And I went, so of course, I'm emailing and back. And we're going, we're going to go.

through somebody, by the way. So I can't email him really directly. I'm actually emailing him through this chick named Joy that was helping me. So I email. I shoot one to her. She shoots one back. I didn't know that either. Yeah. I didn't know that either. We're going back and forth. And he starts saying, look, I need you to remove this my name from it. I went, okay, well, well, I said, okay, I, that would make, I have to go through, rewrite the whole thing, have joy. I got to pay to have this done. Joy's not, you know, people, this costs money in time. And said, well, what are you going to do for me? He's like, what do you mean? I go, well, I need some pictures.

You know, your brother's disappeared. I said, I don't know where he is. I'm writing letters to the Freedom of Information Act. I'm trying to figure out where he is. And I end up saying, I need some photos, some childhood photos, some this. And I started asking him questions. He's like, well, he goes, well, I got those photos, but that would require me to deal with my mother, which I'm unwilling to do. He didn't want to go there.

He said, he had to go to your moms. He had to go in the basement. He had to dig out the, or whatever, he had to dig out the files. He goes, yeah, I don't want to have to deal with her. I don't want to have to explain the whole situation. I don't want to do that. And I went, okay, well, then I'm not taking your name off the thing. Well, it's causing me major problems.

I said, well, bro, there's multiple articles out there on you being arrested for credit card fraud. So don't tell me that my story is upsetting, is causing you problems when there's multiple, you've got multiple arrests. You've been in multiple states. You've got multiple articles about you being. being arrested for credit card fraud. So my story is not affecting you. The problem is my story tells the entire cohesive story as opposed to a random article here and there.

And I'm sure he didn't like the end. I had the photograph. Photographs public records. So we go back and forth, back and forth. And he basically was unwilling to do anything other than to say, take this down. No, I'm not going to fucking take it down. I'll change it.

I'll alter it. I'll use a different name, but give me something. Make it worth my while in some way. He wouldn't do it. So anyway, that's why when you mentioned, your brother, I just remember thinking, Yeah, and right. Up until this point, me and my brother have been pretty tight.

Where's your brother now? I believe he's in Texas. He lives in Texas. Okay, and you don't talk to him? No, up until this point, me and my brother had been really close. Like, we grew up together, you know, obviously. And, you know, when I was in prison, he was, like, the only one that was there for me, sending me money and, like, taking care of me and shit.

And now he won't even speak to me. Why won't he speak to you? Obviously, he's pretty upset about the, uh, him, me involving him in this whole book and all that in which I get it, dude, I get it. You know what I mean? I get it. You know, you're trying to live the straight and narrow and you're trying to

and I believe, I don't think he even told his wife doesn't even know. I don't think she really knew like everything. You know what I mean? Like I kind of think he might have minimized or whatever when he was you know, explaining everything to his wife and I kind of just peeled open a whole fucking can of worms. You know what I mean? I get it. And I'm not even like, I'm kind of hurt by it, but at the same time, dude, I get it. We're a and, you know, you guys got to live his life.

So if your brother was the genius and your brother was the innovator behind all this stuff, why did... So did you rise higher in the ranks than he did? Did you accomplish more and make more than he did? Or was he... You know, for him it was never about that. He wasn't, like, I... He was just fucking around with it as a joke, carting. I know that's whatever, but he was just fucking around.

I got fucking obsessed with it, and I made it, you know what I mean, my 24-7, 365. You know what I'm saying? So it was never really about like I, you know, went further than him or whatever because once he got, once he got busted, once me and him got chased out of a fucking Walmart for trying to get a laptop, I got away, he got caught. Really? And I feel, that I feel fucking horrible about it because I woke him up. Explain that. Explain that. I'm laughing about it.

You feel horrible and I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Because this is what started like my brother's downward trajectory. Okay. You know what I mean? it was like, first of all, he was, because he was living with me in Coral Springs. And I remember waking him up. This day, I remember this day, this day, this day. I woke him up out of a dead fucking sleep to go commit credit card fraud.

Because I wanted to go out and steal. You know what I mean? So I wake him up. Make him go to Walmart with me to fucking card a laptop. Because I think, I think because he had the ID for the card. So, you know what I mean? He had to be the one to do it. You know what I mean?

So we get there. We get back there. We get the laptop. We get to the counter. The dude looks at the car. swipes it, looks at the ID, picks up the phone, we got a code red back here at electronics. I immediately

knew what fucking time it was. So I kind of just do an about face and I slowly start walking towards the front door. I look back my brother still standing at the counter. And I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, man, just fucking walk away, walk away, walk away. So I get to the front door, the automatic doors in Walmart, they slide open. Here

comes my brother just blowing past me with two dudes chasing them. Just a fucking full out. And the... The look of cheer fucking terror on his face as he was going through them fucking doors in Walmart and the two fucking dudes are chasing them I'll never forget to look in that kid's face and that's when it hit me in my stomach I was like I fucked up and then one dude tries to grab my shirt I luckily I did some kind of spin move and slapped his hand away and booked it out of the parking lot and I got away

and I went and hid in the fucking woods and he he went to jail got arrested you know what I mean yeah I felt bad apparently one of his flip flaps fucking blew out on him halfway across the parking lot and they got his ass, you know what I mean? So, yeah, and I felt so horrible for this, you know, but I stayed up all night. I didn't sleep, you know, tracking him, seeing jail he was going to. I watched him go from city to county,

and then I was on it, you know what I mean? I didn't sleep the whole night. I was, as soon as the fucking bail bondsman's opened in the morning, I got him a bail bondsman. He called me after his first quarter appearance. He's like, oh, I got a bond, blah, blah. I was like, listen, I already got a bondsman on the way up there to get you. You know what I mean?

Just sit tight. And I bonded him out. I did the right thing. And then, like, two or three weeks later, the bail bondsman calls me, and he's like, you can come pick up your money. They drop the charges or some shit. Something weird happened in the court. I don't know if it was a clerical error or what happened,

but they just weren't going to prosecute it or whatever. So I got my bond money back. Wow. So we're thinking it's all good. My brother's like, oh, I skated on that one. I was like, yeah, you got lucky. Well, about two or three weeks later, we get a knock on the door early in the morning. and it was one of those

So I knew it was the police Because the police only fucking knock one way At fucking 7 o'clock in the morning You know what I mean? Nobody else is beating on my door like that So I opened up the door It's Coral Springs Police There you know, it's Christopher Bozziak here

And he was in the room sleep But he had his room door closed And I was like, no, he's not here He's a he's like in the cop He said where is he? I was like, he went to Michigan He took off and went to Michigan yesterday And the cops like, do you have any ID

So I went and got my ID He gave it to him So he can make sure that I wasn't Christopher and he said, oh, well, good thing. He did take off because he's got a warrant out for his arrest. And I was like, and I told the cop, I was like, I got my bond money back from that.

He's like, yeah, well, somebody picked up the case and he gets to get a warrant out for his arrest. So I went and woke him up, like, dude, you know, fucking police were just here looking for you. He was like, oh, man, that was almost my freedom. And he took off that night and went to Michigan. And he got caught up in Michigan, like, I think two weeks later at a target. and that's when the whole thing unfolded.

So then he got jailed up there and then he had to get extradited back down to Florida and the whole thing. So after that whole thing happened with him, he was done. Like that was the end of it for him. Like once he got caught, you know what I mean?

Coral Springs and went to Michigan and went through that whole fucking shit. I think after that he was done. Like he was like, you know what? I'm going to go to college. I'm going to get a degree. I'm going to, you know, do what I got to do.

So he was out of the life of crime and pretty much away from me at that time. Like after that, We went our separate ways. He took off and went and did his thing, and then I made carding my life after that. Did you see the Wikipedia page on him? My Wikipedia page?

Yeah. There's a Wikipedia. I don't think I did, do you? Yeah, I'll send it to you. We can pull it up and show it. I'm doing big things. I got my own Wikipedia page. That's pretty legit.

Did you make it? This is the mastermind. This is my, my PR. This is my PR right here. This is my publicist. Who set it up? No. I mean, Wikipedia.

What do we? Wikipedia is, user is, is, listen, you got to go through. There's a whole process you got to go through. It has to get verified

and they got to send in documents and they got to verify and yeah, they got to make sure it's legit. I'm trying to get that blue check on Instagram right now. Then I'm really fucking doing things. So after you got your brother,

you and your brother split ways, what did you do? Like what used, did you like shift it, shift into a higher gear? You're fucking kicked it into high gear. Yeah, I made it my business. I just, every day I'd wake up and that's all I thought about. And this is the point where you're making, like, getting these $200,000 orders every week from...

At this point, I'm not really doing shit. When me and my brother separated, I really wasn't doing much at this time. Like, I was making money and I was making cards and I was doing all right, but my operation was still pretty low-time. And then me and Chris went our separate ways, and that's when I... I was like, okay, I need to get better equipment. I need to figure out, you know. And you had all the VPNs. You were staying under the radar.

Yeah, yeah. You're being extremely smart about not getting caught. Yeah. At what point did you hit a level to where you're, like, starting to get worried? When I started doing 100 orders a month. I was going to say, Secret Service showed up. Well, I mean, that was... Quite a few times.

I would go to grab a package. I'd be at my Dropbox store to go pick up a package, and I somehow would... They would be in there looking for me or something. I would be, like, coming in or going out, and I'd be like... And then another time I was at, I think I was at like a Borders bookstore or something like that using their VPN. And one of my VPNs had failed on me. Like I thought I was being protected and I wasn't. And so you would be using public Wi-Fi?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Public Wi-Fi with a VPN, would a Sox, you know what I mean? Shit. And I was using Russian proxies. Like I was doing Russian sites where they would just list all these proxies. And this is back in the day.

So you would have to get all these proxies and then you'd have to run them through a checker one by one. to make sure if they were valid because there was only like, there's only certain windows that these VPNs that these proxies were valid for and then they would be no longer valid because the IP addresses

would cycle and everything would get changed. You know, so it was like I had to go through and, you know, use all these checkers and manually input the IPHs. So yeah, my VPN ended up failing on me

and I didn't know it. And I was think I was out of Borders books and this was the border's books I kept using. And this is my mistake. I just got comfortable. You know, and I kept going to the same place.

I mean, they had these big comfy chairs. and I had my own little corner back away from everybody. You know what I mean? This is my fucking, this is my fraud corner. This is what I do. I go here, I sit. Fraud corner, I like that.

Yeah, it's my little fraud corner. This is my spot. Yeah. And yeah, they just got hip to me. And they tried to come to borders. I think they walked into borders one day. The same, was it Secret Service agent? Secret Service.

Yeah, the same Secret Service agent that I had seen at my Dropbox place. How do you know he was Secret Service? Well, you can always tell. How? They got the high and tight. They wear the cargo. They wear the cargo pants, the tan cargo pants with the tucked in polo with the tucked in polo with the fucking, the bed. What do they call those?

The loo. The lanyard. The lanyard with the bed. Everyone, if you Google, Google image fucking, they all look the same. Really? They all look the same. Yeah. What's on a lanyard?

What's hanging off the lanyard? the Secret Service badge. They wear the badge. They tuck it in. But they pull it out when they, you know what I mean? They have it ready for it in front. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I could smell police.

I could see police a mile away. You can always tell when somebody's polies. Yeah. Especially when you're doing fraud and that's what you're watching for. Were you like, did you know? I didn't know he was Secret Service. Okay, you didn't know he was Secret Service. I didn't know he was Secret Service until I seen him come into borders.

Because the only people that got pole with IP addresses and that kind of, that kind of organization to be on you like that would be secret service. Because FBI, well, FBI is secret service, but FBI doesn't deal with that kinds of things. Okay, Secret service. Secret service, they deal with all financial crimes. And you saw this shady looking dude who looked like a cop. And what did you like? He carried himself like the cop.

He was dressed like a cop. And that made you super suspicious. Right. So I had went to my, I had something called like an HQ. So I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's like a virtual office where they can do employment verification. You can have packages shipped there. They could do mail.

They answer phones for you. So I had one of those. And I was running packages out of there or whatever like that. So I had seen, I was going to pick up a package one day. And I had seen, I think it was coming out of an elevator. And I had seen those, they had walking into the office, the police. I'm like, man, something just hit me in the gut. And something just did not feel right.

at all, at all. And there's courier guys, there's couriers that run in and out of the building to pick up packages or whatever like that. So I had paid one of the couriers to go and grab my packages for me at my HQ. Okay? And I went and sat in the parking lot. So when my courier comes out with my packages, sure enough, the bo-bo-looking motherfucker and the dude that was with him, grab them.

No. Yeah. And that's when I knew right then and there, that something was wrong. but I didn't know it was my VPN. You know what I mean? I thought it was, I thought that they, maybe it was just, I didn't know how or why. Sorry.

At that point in time. You know, there's a, I was just thinking about, the FOIA, that what's her name has to get? That what's her name? So there's a, possibly,

let's just say, doc the doc. Yeah, I'm working on a little something right now. Yeah. I got a little something cooking maybe. Yeah. There's a documentary, right? There's a documentary producer that is going through the whole thing,

and she just got Freedom of Information Act. Like, I got a bunch of stuff, but keep in mind, I can only get so much, and she's like a... Investigative journalist. Right. So she just got, like, a fucking ton of documents in. And, like, I've been talking to her, and she sent me a thing the other day.

She's like, they just mailed them to me. They said it was too big to fucking email or something. And we were talking about that earlier. He was like, that doesn't even make sense. But maybe they're sending it to her on a thumbnail or so, thumb drive or something. I don't know. But they're mailing it. I was just wondering, like, I wonder what's going to come up.

It's going to be interesting. Because, like, I got a ton of documents, right? Like, I got a ton of stuff that was showed up as I was ordering the documents that are showing up, verifying this is true. This is true. I'm dying to know. And I sent it to her. She was like, this is amazing. I'm wondering what additional stuff she came up with.

Do you see what I'm saying? Like I get a movie about you, John? A documentary. Well, I hope so, yeah. Hope so. Well, they got to sell it first. They're going to like Netflix or somebody. They already make, they already, I was going to ask you that.

I'm like, is there already a movie made about you? No. We're working out. I'm trying to get a deal made. The chick already, they make documentaries for Netflix. They actually are making one right now for Netflix. I think they just sold something to Netflix. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure they sold it because they were, they're down here. What, shooting it? Is it here? You know what's funny? She told me Sarasota, but then she told me Sarasota, but then she wants to meet you and anyway, she's in Florida. They're in Florida right now and they're supposed to meet with him. But I was just wondering about that when you said that.

I thought, Fuck, I'm fine. It's interesting to see because you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Like I don't know how they knew what or when or when to be where when. Obviously, you know, because I'm not, I'm not on their team. Right. So when you get all the Freedom of Information Act shit, it's all in there.

Like all the reports, all the documents, everything's in there. Yeah. Every interaction. Every interaction. Any piece of paper that's attached to my name that has anything to do with any of these cases, there's paperwork on. And all of that can be released through freedom of information. And keep mine, I couldn't get everything. First of all, he was gone.

He left way before me. How many years? You said it today. You said it's been five years. Yeah, it's been five years since I've seen. But when you left. I got out in 2015. Oh, yeah.

Fuck. I got in 2019. Yeah. So. Yeah. So, but I'm saying, I was just thinking, like, it was funny, all the different things that, like, when his brother's police report. when his brother got arrested. Like I have the whole police report.

So I know, like, he used the car. You know why his brother got caught? Why? When he went up, so he goes back up to Michigan and starts carting again. Who does his brother? His brother. Remember he went on the run, he went, but he starts carting again in Michigan. He got caught, got released in Florida, and then goes back up there, starts carting again.

And then when he was carding, he uses a card. So he uses a card by something, like fucking for, like he ran it up for four. or five grand. I think I actually have... Was it that much? Yeah, I actually have the... Not just at Target. It was over the...

Throughout the dead. On the same card? Yeah, same card. It was... Because I actually have from the bank where it's like, whatever, 3,900 or 4,200, whatever, around 4 grand. He ran up this card.

Well, here's the funny thing. So the card... So he gets the stuff and he leaves. Well, the woman gets notified by the bank. saying, hey, your car's been run up or whatever. She then, she goes, okay, well, oh gosh, this is all around here. This target is right up the street.

She calls the target, and they're like, yeah, I know. Oh, okay, yeah. And she's like, okay, well, she talks to them and they're like, yeah, there's nothing we can do. They call the police. They go, yeah, just fell out the police report. And she goes, no, no, it's right down the street. They have surveillance cameras. I want you to go down there and look at the –

she's those such a fucking stink. She makes the police do their job. It was a Karen. They actually... It was definitely a Karen. They actually get up. They drive down there. They look on the surveillance photos.

They actually get the name because his brother used like a... His brother used his own ID with the strip. And they actually get his brother's ID. They look in the phone book, find out where he lives. Go there, open the door. It's fucking swag everywhere. They open the door and fucking... It's him.

The cop just saw him on the... Just... Slag? Stolen. It's all, it's an older term. I've never heard of it. It's a boomer term. I know it's a boomer term.

Not in that context. So it's basically, oh, there's all, places filled with fucking, with, with stolen stuff or whatever. Piles a fucking gift card. Yeah, just, and he arrests him right there. But, I mean, it was the victim wasn't willing to just roll over and go, okay. She was like, oh, no, no. She put up a stink. You go down there.

You look on the surveillance floor. And that's the article. There's a huge article that was written up about his. brother, you know, talking about it. They make it sound like it's like a big deal and stuff. It's like, yeah. Five, it was four or five grand, but. So anyway, I'm sorry.

So that's when your brother first got busted. Right. No, second time. That was after me and him got ran out of Walmart. Oh, that after. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I had that police report. Like, I had the police report of the interviews, of the screenshots, of the cards, of the

all, everything. So, I mean, that's the kind of stuff that, you know, I kept getting in. And then, like, the time you almost got caught. buying a gun I was getting documents in the stories that he didn't even told me he didn't even tell me like literally I'm reading this

this Hillsborough County Sheriff's report and I'm reading the report going What the fuck is this? Yeah I had a warrant out from my arrest A federal warrant out from my arrest And I didn't know And I'm at a gun store And I'm trying to buy

I'm trying to purchase a fucking firearm And they're doing the background check on me The police are on their way up there to arrest me and I just finally get sick of fucking waiting around I'm like you know what I'm over it and I leave and I'm 10 minutes after I leave 5 minutes after I leave the sheriff show up to arrest me Yeah

Yeah and they call him Yeah Let you understand I was in prison when I got this report And I completely forgot about this whole This whole thing And I was on the phone calling and I'm like Hey bro I got a report in

And he's like Oh yeah Yeah Yeah they were what I left They wouldn't give me the thing And I was wondering why they were acting weird after they like after they like after i gave him my information i ran my information the dude was acting fucking kind of strange behind the counter because i guess he knew the police were coming to arrest me you know what i mean so something just didn't sit right now i looked at my wife and i was like man something just fucking something's weird the cop even wrote up the phone call when he called him he's like hey is this john bozio he's nah man my name's j or whatever you said he's like now you got the wrong number wrong number but he hangs up on him but the cop writes up the whole thing And so I tell him that.

I'm like, you never told me that story. He's like, yeah, I remember. That's right. I mean, there was all these things that were coming in. We were talking about this earlier. I was like, and years later when I got busted, I got, I got, I was in Hillsborough County jail, but I was a federal, I was on a federal hold. So federal inmates don't get held at Hillsborough.

They get shipped out to Pinellas. And they hold all the federal inmates at Pinellas. Well, they did then. I mean, they had a contract. I'm not sure if they do anymore. But the, the dude who cop that came to pick me up from Hillsborough to transfer me Pernellis was the same one that came to arrest me at the gun shop. And he's like, you know, I was, I got there 10 minutes after you left.

I was coming to arrest you. The sheriff's deputy got there first. Yeah. That's the report I got. Okay. But he's saying that the Secret Service, they also showed up. Yeah, he was like a U.S. Marshal or something like that or something. Yeah, I don't remember who was transfer me.

But he was like, I was the one that came to arrest you. But I barely, I just barely missed you. And he's like, I went to whatever address you put on your, on the application I filled out for the background checker, like the gun form or whatever. And he's like, yeah, it was just like a vacant apartment or something. And I was like, yeah, I have a habit of not ever putting where I live or any proper information on anything. And it's, it's hurting me now because now I'm like a legitimate, like, citizen of, you know,

in society and I'm trying to like function properly. And it's like, I've got all these habits where I just don't put down wrong phone numbers for shit. I don't ever give my address out where I live. I don't have my, my driver's license, registered. to the address, my physical home address. I don't put any utilities in my name. I just, because I'm used to living life on the lamb.

You know, I used to fucking always have a warrants or, you know. That paranoid lifestyle. Somebody chasing me for child support or some shit, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. I got a couple of those. I've been ducking those for a while. Jesus. So, yeah, you know, and those habits now are really,

they're hard for me to get out of. How long has it been since you got out? Five years. Five years. Yeah, been out five years. All right. So at what point, at some point between,

from when you first started noticing the Secret Service agents hovering around you, you figured out who they were. They were getting close. They were getting close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now you must be getting like way more paranoid

because these fucking guys are on you. Like they know who you are. Yeah. They're trying to find, they know what's going on online. They know how to fucking, they know the tech, the technology of the VPNs.

Yeah. And whatever. where they know what you're doing on the forms, the buying and selling of stuff. Yeah. I think at this point they knew who I was and what I was doing. They just didn't know who I was. They didn't know what you looked like.

They didn't know, like, yeah, they didn't know who I was. Right. But how many, did you have a bunch of fake identities? Oh, yeah. I mean, I could print driver's licenses. Right. And I had access to hundreds of thousands of people's information. At any given point in time, I could buy, I mean, I had contacts.

I could call somebody like, listen, I need 500 first name, last name, birth, I'm sorry, first name, last name, data birth, and social security number. So Matt Cox, you were basically like the beta version of John Boziak. Matt Cox was the, he's the analog version. The analog version. Matt Cox was doing everything analog. He was actually going to homeless people and acting like he had a survey and having them,

you know, write their information down, you know what I mean? He's like the dial-up. He's like dial-up version. Yeah, yeah. Boots on the ground. Wow. That's fucking. Yeah, I'm going in the. I'm actually going in the bank, filling out paperwork, getting it out in cash.

He's filling it out online. He's having it transferred here. So at any given time, I could be anybody I wanted to be. Because I could just make the driver's license. And even if I didn't, I know how to steal identities. So I could just go to a, I could get, you know, get anybody's birth certificate. All I need is your first name, your data birth and your social security number. I can get your background check.

I can pull your credit file. Once I do those two things, I can get your birth certificate. Once I get your birth certificate, I can go straight to the DMV and I can get driver's license in your name with your birth certificate. So now I'm I'm, I'm whoever I want to be. Right. And I, and that's, you know, that's relatively easy. That's peanuts.

Does he know about what you, what you had to go through to get people's identities? Oh, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Getting homeless people, social security numbers. He loves to do this. He loves, he loves his life. What do you think about, what do you think about what he was doing? Because he was going, finding homeless people saying that he needed to fill out, they need to fill out surveys, get their social security numbers.

Like, Matt, Matt, Matt's a megalomaniac. That's what enabled Matt to do the things that he did, plain and simple. He's a narcissistic megalomaniac that he just, you know, you know, that little governor that people have inside of him that tells them not to do certain things or not to talk to people a certain way. Matt doesn't have that. He doesn't have that filter. I'm all better now, though. No, I mean, but what do you think about, like, the actual. process that he had to go through.

I wouldn't. To steal people's identities. I couldn't. I would never do that. If that's what I had to do, it seems like so much work compared to what you were doing. Are you kidding me?

There's no way. There's no way. I would never, in a million years, ever do something like that. I would break in, I would, you know, do a commercial burglary

and get into a fucking file system or something like that before I even thought to do something like that. Well, I have to do a survey him. You just walk around the pad. You just, hey, excuse me, I'm taking, you know,

I'm walking through the park. And you get $20 bill. He'd say, I'm doing surveys. I'll give you $20. We're trying to figure out where we want to put the next, we say American Cross. No, how do I go? Just homeless.

You can say a homeless facility, but basically in Salvation Army. Yeah. Or through Salvation Army. I had a badge. And I'd ask them, I said, how many people actually gave you the real information? He said, all of them. All of them. Almost, I literally, I'll bet you,

I'll bet you maybe one or two people gave me something bad. Almost never. And even then, like I had one guy who gave me his, his, his, his, his, his, uh, date of he gave me was off. Like he switched, like he thought he was going to fool me, I'm going to change my date at birth. It doesn't matter when we pulled the credit, the real date of birth showed up. But that's a super inefficient way of stealing somebody's identity. Well, it's actually smart.

Well, it's actually smart because these people are fucking homeless, junkie drug addicts. Yeah, they're not going to show up. It was creative. Let's say, let's say, yeah. They're never going to show up to court. They're not going to know if somebody's doing anything with their name or anything like that because they're fucking crazy and homeless. Yeah, the bank's not going to call them and say, hey, somebody is using. using your credit card.

It's more work and it's less efficient than what I was doing. I mean, obviously, my work... More money, though. I'm borrowing a million dollars in this guy's name. It's also a different scam, though. Yeah, completely different. You know, I wasn't... When I stole people's identities,

I wasn't you doing it for any kind of financial gain. Like, I wasn't using their name to build a credit reporter, take loans out or going to a bank or anything like that. Right. I was just using it so that... And when I went to go do my dirt, that people didn't know who I was. Like, say, I was going to open a UPS store, box at a UPS store.

that's when I would make an identity. Or I was going to do like an HQ, you know, like the virtual office or whatever. You're just going to cover your tracks. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about eventually? I mean, you know, I don't know if,

I mean, I don't know if you want me to help you along here. Oh, of course, yes. So eventually you end up, you're in, you were, went to Rock Hill. Rock Hill, South Carolina. Yeah, where you get pinched, right? So. That fucking backwater, hick-hast town.

I should have never fucking. Where was? Unbelievable, man. Rock Hills, South Carolina. Yes, sir. Yeah, sir. Them fucking rednecks up there. Why were you there? Unbelievable. The girl I was with at the time, that's where she was from.

She's from South Carolina. Her family is from there. A little southern bell. Yeah. And for whatever reason, we decided to leave Florida and take my son and go to South Carolina. I'm like, listen, I can do what I do anywhere. Right. You know what I mean?

So, you know, we get up there and that was a nail in the coffin. That was the nail in the coffin. That's what sent me to prison. was eventually was my decision yeah that was it so how did that play out um

right so when I when you send out when I send out packages I just go to a UPS store and I because I pre-print my labels so I just go into a UPS store and I hand it to them to give $5 and they scan it and they send in the outgoing mail

and it goes out you know which is cool because in South Florida there's 10,000 fucking UPS stores I mean you literally put in your GPS and you get all day long yeah they're everywhere so I never have to go to the same one twice. And I could do this for months and months and months and keep rotating.

Well, where I was, there was two UPS stores, and that was it. So I had to go to the same UPS store to send out my packages when I was sending them out. Same UPS store, same UPS store. So eventually the old man that was running the UPS store, I didn't know at this time that they're all franchises. I mean, I know that. I knew that. I didn't know that. So the old man that worked at the UPS store was the owner of the UPS store. And I was going there, you know, three, four times a week sending shit out and they're going all over the world my shit's going to you know europe south america the documentary chick Caitlin tracked him down yeah yeah yeah she's actually already tracked this guy is girl oh she don't fuck around she she she's listen she lives here in florida

she's from new york yeah she just happens to be here but i'm saying yeah i just want to mention she got her on this fucking show she's listen go she worked for yeah she worked for um time you know i don't know if she's specifically work for them but i know she she she has stuff published with like People magazine I believe No, she worked for, no, she did, she worked for people Yeah, until just reason. She quit to co-start her own thing.

She's doing her own thing. She did for like five or ten years or something. Yeah, she was an investigative journalist, but I'm sorry. I mean, but I just thought it was amazing because that's somebody she was like, oh, no, no, I already attracted about you. From Matt's story?

From my story? Yeah, from Matt, yeah. She was investigating Matt plug me in. Donovan, Donovan Davis. And so she went through, she was reading, she was reading this stuff on my website.

Well, no, on the YouTube channel. And then on the YouTube channel, she came across Boziac's story. Yeah. Bent. So that's the first one I put up. So she came across the narration on my story. Has 26,000 views right now on YouTube, by the way. 26,000 views on YouTube, by the way.

So it's, yeah. Putting up real numbers. So, yeah. So on my channel, she saw it, and she read it. And she contacted me. goes, okay, who's this guy? And I was like, oh, it's this. She's like, okay, well, at the end of the story, he disappears.

And I went, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I said, you got to get his book. I said, there's a book. He shows up. I explained he, he did disappear. But then I said, he had actually gotten arrested and then did some time and got out. I said, I've contact him. And she was, oh, okay.

She said, don't, can I get, do you, to you can put me in contact with him? I said, yeah, I can get you his number and everything. Yeah. And she's like, okay, so. at that point, you weren't, no, you weren't working for Tesla then. At the end of the book, you were working. I was living in L.A. at this time. I had moved from San Francisco to L.A.

Yeah. So I gave him her number because we talked when I was in the halfway house. So I still had his information. So I gave him his information. She contacted him. She came back to me. She said, well, you be interviewed? And I said, yeah, I'll be interviewed.

And she goes, well, do you have all the information on him? I was like, yeah, why? She was super stoked about it. She's like, this is great. This is an amazing documentary. Because, you know, we didn't get into all the fucking times he got crap. and handcuffed and we didn't get into all that. So how did you get busted in South Carolina?

Right, yeah. So pretty much the old man was just a nosy old fuck. You know what I mean? So I dropped the package off one day and he opened it and went through it. I seen what I was sending out and then he called the Postmaster General and then the Postmaster General contacted the Secret Service. He also kept on. He didn't, he's walking in all tattooed up.

This is a little tattooed up. Oh, you had the tattoos. Yeah. Yeah. This is a little town in South Carolina. He thought he was sipping drugs. Driving a nice Cadillac and shit. Yeah, he thought he's sipping drugs.

Tell me the story about when you decided to get all the tattoos. Didn't you have to get, didn't you try to buy a Rolex or something? Oh, yeah, yeah. You got locked in a closet or something. At the mall. And then you have security. You know, like one of those little rooms. And then you climbed through the ceiling to escape.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, through a drop ceiling. Yeah, yeah. The tattoos. Was that before? or after you got the tattoos? I've always had tattoos. Oh, really? Yeah, I started getting tattooed when I was, we're young.

The rock star? Yeah, rock star. That's, that's over here. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's, that was like, it's covered up now. I can still see it though. I can see it.

If you're looking for it. Yeah. What's about, is that, what is that the dollar bill thing? It's the Illuminati, brother. When did you get that fucker? I just did my whole head last year.

Damn. Yeah, I just started going really hard. On the tattooing. But I've always had tattoos. Yeah, I've been, I started getting tattooed extremely young. Probably 14 or 15. I think I got my first tattoo. And then I did my first tattoo when I was like 16 or something.

Your own first tattooed? Yeah. You tattooed yourself or you tattooed somebody else? I tattooed somebody else. And then it was just like an obsession after that. Yeah. It's like tattooing and just like getting tattooed and doing tattoos and everything. Tattooing in prison.

Yeah. You're tattooing people in prison? Yeah. Yeah. With a fucking needle? We were making tattoo machines in there, man, out of fucking... Whoa. We had little motors.

We were taking out of shavers. They're burning fucking ink and making their own ink. Yeah, yeah. I got into it, man. I mean, that's how I make all my money now. I'm full-time tattoo artist now. Really? Yeah.

I would walk by and fucking sell the art. Yeah. Matt would walk by. They got lookouts and, you know. Dude sitting in the chair watching for the police. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I've always been obsessed with tattooing.

And, you know, ever since I was a kid, because I grew up in a rough part of town, you know, with, you know, with rough cats. and everybody's always tattooed. I got the impression from the story that you just got the tattoos so you could look. I started getting heavily tattooed later on. Because you thought,

you feared you'd go to prison and you wanted to look, you wanted to have more tattoos. Yeah, that's part of it, I guess. That's, that's Matt's, that's Matt's, sofa psychiatry, I think.

Spin, which is what you would say. You had said, fuck, I knew eventually I'm going to end up in prison. You would said that. Yeah, it was just like, you know, I'm not a very big guy. You know what I mean? I've always been small.

And it's just like I wanted... You were way smaller then, too. You're bigger now. When we met, you were... Even in prison, you were thin. You were way thinner. Yeah, yeah. Probably weighed 135, 145 pounds when I met you.

What do you weigh now? 160. Oh, he was probably 135 when I met him. Yeah, 130. 5-7. 125, 130 going into prison. Going federal prison. Tiny, tiny little dude, yeah.

So I was like, you know, I got to do something. You know what I mean? I did have face tats. No. I didn't have any of this when I went to prison. No, nothing. You got it all after. I had, nothing.

I think I had, Yeah, you had the neck. I had my sleeves. And you had, definitely had the neck. And I had my neck. No, no,

I didn't have any of this. No, no, two sides. Just the sides, yeah. I had the two sides. And then I had, and I was sleeved up.

And the sleeves. And then when I got out, I was like, I'm not fucking getting a nine to five. I'm not doing it. So it's either going to be tattooing or I'm going back to prison. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I just went ham. I went fucking ham. And I just, I went, you know, I went crazy. Yeah. But, you know, it works for me. You know?

It works for me. And I make, I make, I make, I make really good money right now tattooing, you know. That's awesome. Yeah. I have a friend who just got into it. She just started apprenticing in a tattoo place up in Tampa. She was a graphic designer. Okay.

Yeah. She did a lot of graphic designer. Luke's wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she just started apprenticing or cheap? Yeah.

Yeah. I've been tattooing pretty solid for about 10 years. I think. Really? Yeah, about 10 years. Solid. That's fucking cool. Yeah.

Yeah. So now it's just like, that's my bread and butter. Now, I mean, I get to wake up every single day. I have the best life ever. I get to wake up every day and do whatever I want to do. I get to wake up every day and just go to the gym and work out and eat breakfast and hang out. You know what I mean? And get on the computer and draw a little bit and schedule a couple tattoos.

And then go fuck around with a girl over here. You know what I mean? It's just whatever I want to do, my day is mine. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not a fucking wage slave. You know? And I'm lucky.

that I figured out a way out of it. Do you own your own shop? I'm working out of a private studio right now. Yeah. Okay. So you like rent a space or whatever? Yep. Okay.

Well, he just moved to Arizona. You just moved to Arizona from L.A.? I had to get the fuck out of L.A., man. L.A. was... Everything closing down, huh? From COVID. L.A. is an absolute fucking shit show. That's what I hear from everybody.

They're killing cops out there. They're burning cop cars. They're fucking looting. They're rioting. They're protesting. Everything's fucking shut down. I mean, it's fucking $4 a gallon for gas. I was paying.

$2,100 a month to live in a fucking not even that nice of an apartment in Anaheim, fucking Orange County. How would you want to fucking live there, dude? It's insane. California is unlivable. It's just not... The homeless are... It's done.

It's insane. I've never... Well, you know that because we talked. Yeah. You were in LA. California is a democratic, liberal fucking shit pool. Yeah. That's what it is. Fucking needles and homeless people shitting all over the streets.

Yeah. And then you've got these fucking multi-millionaires getting out of Rolls Royce is stepping over three fucking homeless people to get into a restaurant to pay fucking, you know what I mean, $200, $300 for a steak dinner and a $500 martini. It's the whole thing. It's just fucking absolute insanity. It's absolute insanity. In Florida?

Yeah. And I lived in, sorry. That never happened. I lived in fucking San Francisco for two and a half years. Isn't it worse there? It's worse. San Francisco's way worse than L.A. I mean, they both have their own problems, but San Francisco was.

In San Francisco, same thing downtown. I was in downtown L.A. I was in downtown L.A. and I've been in downtown San Francisco. San Francisco, downtown is worse. It's funny because there's so many beautiful parts of California, too. California is a beautiful state. California is a beautiful state. Like San Diego and La Jolla is so nice.

I lived in Orange County. So when I lived in L.A. and then I moved to Orange County and I was living out by Huntington Beach. And Huntington Beach is fucking amazing. You go out there, you hang out there. You know, I got the beach. You got the restaurants. You got the shops. Everything's cool.

You know what I mean? But then you got... L.A. is just like a fucking dumpster, dude. Yeah. It's a bummer, dude. The tent cities, just the homeless, the homeless down there, it's just, it's off the charts, man. Everybody's leaving.

Literally, every building you walk into, you're accosted by a homeless person. Every gas station, every 7-Eleven, every place you go to, there's somebody literally covered in filth, half-naked, screaming at nothing. And you think I'm, you think I'm trying to be funny, I'm not. That's a physical description of every fucking homeless person in Miami. You know what I mean? Do you know soft white underbelly? Did you ever talk to him?

Yeah, he's coming on the podcast. Awesome. Love Mark. He's coming down here. Mark's 60-something years old and looks amazing. Yeah, soft white underbelly, dude. His channel is amazing. Oh, he's great.

You know where his, Skid Row in downtown L.A.? That's where his studio he runs out of that. So when he interviews people, you could, I've watched the interviews, right? Can you hear crazy shit going on? Oh, yeah. You can hear like sirens and I was watching. Oh, that's constant.

And I was sitting there looking at, you know, because they're beautiful. The interviews are beautiful. They're amazing. They're amazing. The photography's phenomenal. And I'm watching and I hear the sirens and I go, wow, that's neat that he kind of, he must put that in there. And then I got down there and did my thing. And I was like, oh, you didn't put this shit in it. It's pretty rough down there.

This is 10 feet outside the door. Two homeless guys screaming at each other. This is 15 feet. There's a fucking police. He's got an interview with this dude. this black dude who had his half of his face blown off by a shotgun. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I watched that interview.

It's a horrible. I watched that interview. And he's homeless. He's homeless, but he's actually, like, got his shit together. He can actually, he's coherent. He's lucid. He can talk about it. And he's like a good dude.

Yeah. He's like a good dude. He's like, man, I always try to help people out and fucking, you know what I mean? Do it right by people. Yeah. Horrible. Missing half is fucking. It's fucking insane.

I still alive. He's done multiple interviews with that guy, I think. I think he's done one, and then he did one a long time ago with him. And then all of a sudden, like, years later, he, like, did another one with him. Yeah. I may be wrong. I don't know. I'm just talking shit.

I mean, just the channel story. I don't know. And he went to, uh, he went, where did he go to, um, somewhere in Tennessee where he interviewed this inbred family? Yeah. That's like one of his, that's the dude. Yeah. That's the dude, okay.

I've been watching his business all week long, man. You see me how many hits that thing got? The one dude that just barks like a dog in the background? Yes, he barks and he's like, what happened to your brother? Where's your brother? And you're like, oh, my God. And you can tell the dude's like trying to communicate to him. He's understanding him.

But he can only bark like a dog. That's it. And then he goes, he walks across the street and there's a fucking grave. They just buried. They buried his brother right across the street from the house. Like in an empty fucking field. Yeah. It was wild, man.

Did you watch that one? Did you watch? Oh, you got to check that one out. I watched. That's a good one. I literally like turn it on for like 20 seconds. I went, oh, I can't watch it. Inbred family from fucking, where were they at?

I think, I thought it was somewhere in Midwest somewhere. I thought it was somewhere in Tennessee. Was it, oh, it was Tennessee? I thought, maybe not. Kentucky or Tennessee. It was Kentucky or Tennessee. Appalachia should be Kentucky, yeah. One of the two.

Well, you want to wrap the, you know, the, he got arrested and. Oh, sorry, we got on a tangent. Let's get back on. We get back on track. That's all right, man. We're just, we're just, hash in it out. This, uh, fucking crazy old dude who worked at a UPS store. Yeah, he, he cut open your package, found your credit card.

Yeah, he, uh, contacted the Postmaster General, Postmaster General, Postmaster General, contacted the Secret Service and then I got an email one day telling me I had a package waiting on me which I did actually I had stuff coming in and out and I get there and I walk up to the counter and I'll give the old man

points for this one I'll give the old fucking bastard points for this one because I couldn't tell he was not even shook he played it cool as motherfucking cucumber when I went up there I signed for my package it was just like normal it was like an everyday you know what I mean transaction with them

And I'm pretty good. Like, I pick up on subtle things like that. I can tell if somebody's nervous. I can tell if something isn't right. You know what I mean? Especially when I deal with somebody on a regular basis, but no, he played it cool. I'm going to walk out the door, and the door swings open.

And I didn't see the dude's face. I just seen a badge because he had it on his belt. They were in, like, playing clothes. And he had a badge on his belt, and that's what I seen. And then I went to go walk out the door, and the other dude blocked the door. And I was like, fuck. And that's when it all just came.

That's when it just came flooding. Like, my stomach fucking dropped. Like, I immediately, my armpits just started, like, turned on the faucets. You know what I mean? Like, the fucking nerves just started going crazy. And they were like, Ryan Pearson. And I was like, yeah. And he said, what do you say?

He said, we need to talk to you about what you've been sending out of here. I tried to play stupid at first, but he said Ryan Pearson. So I was like, okay, well, obviously he doesn't know who the fuck I am. And I tried to play it stupid at first. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, he gave me that look. And I was like, All right.

All right. He's like, well, why don't you come in the back? He's like, come in the back, because there were people coming in out of the store, and she's like, we're like, we sat down. He's like, so what have you been sending out of here? Because he's like, we have your package you sent out of here. We know what you've been sending out of here. And then that's when literally the movie blow flashed in my head.

And I remember when he was sitting in, you've seen the movie blow, obviously, when he's sitting in the room and he knew it was a setup at that time. He's like, he knew it. And he just sat back in his chair. He was like, all right, fuck it, let's do it. And that's what I said. I said it. I was like, all right, fuck it, let's do it.

He's like, what's your name? I was like, you know, John Boziak. And then he's like, what you've been sending out of here? I was like, credit cards. He's like, all right. And then he's like, you know, I had to explain to him what I had been doing. And of course, I minimized every fucking thing. You know what I mean?

I minimized a shit out of that situation. I was like, okay, in my mind, I was like, what do they have? You know what I mean? What do they really have? Right. 500 cards? Okay. That's what they have.

of. So I gave them, I was, I gave them what they, what I kind of felt like I already knew they, they, they thought they knew that I didn't know that they knew, if that makes any sense. You know what I mean? Like, I was trying to be slick with it. And so I just told them, I gave, I fed them what they, what I thought they were like, okay, they know I've been making cards. So I'm going to tell them I've been making cards. I'm not going to fucking tell them how long I've been doing it. Or how much I, you know, how many cards I've been doing it. Obviously, I'm not going to just be like, okay, here it is. I doing everything, you know, and I'm not going to, obviously, I'm not going to tell on myself. So I just, I gave him enough to set, that I felt like satisfied him. So I agreed to, um, he gets on the phone with his supervisor. He's on the phone on and off. He's got Blackberry. He's sent an email. He's making phone calls.

What year is it now? 2009. Okay. And, um, yeah, he's in the Blackberry. Crackberry. Yeah, those are Blackberry. Well, all the feds use Blackberry. Yeah.

I think they still use them. iPhones. Oh, do they? Yeah. They're all. iPhones now. But yeah, they used the blackberries back in the day. So what was I saying? Oh yeah, I agreed to

let them come to my home in search and seize all my equipment. Oh, wow. You can see the list of the seizure list. Like when I got it. Yeah. It's multiple. Freedom of information. Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's on your indictment. No, no. Yeah, it's on the indictment. It's on my indictment. Where they list like, I was just you know, this fargum or this thermal printer, this thermal printer, this

like multiple MRI, like it's like three or four laptops. I mean, it just goes on and on and on and on. Like, you know, hot foil, you know, press machine. But, you know, it's like, like, why do you need three? And here's what fucking blew me away on this whole situation is I, they didn't arrest me. I didn't go to jail. They fingerprinted me and took my picture out. They took a fingerprinted me in the back of the UPS store.

Then they made me go out in front of the UPS store and they made me stand and they took my picture and they turned aside and they took my picture and then they had a bunch of paperwork faxed to the ups store and i signed all of it letting them okay i give you permission to search my home i give you permission to you know whatever this is before we even went to my condo they put me in the back of their car drove me to my condo and they went in and they spent about four and a half hours tearing that motherfucker apart just two dudes actually was one dude that was doing all the searching i was sitting in the living room and the other dude was just sitting in there with me you know and to these guys i'll give these guys credit they were cool you know what i mean

like under any other circumstances like these weren't like bad dudes like some cops are fucking pricks. Right. You know what I mean? They just, they talk down to you, they talk shit to you,

you know what I mean? They tear your shit up. You know what I mean? These motherfuckers were kind of cool. You know what I mean? In my closet I had like, like, like, 300 pairs of sneakers or something like that. And a dude was like,

he kept coming out there. He was like, he was like, we were talking about like Jordans and you were talking about my sneaker collection while those other assholes was in there fucking tearing up and going through all my computers and shit.

And then so yeah, they searched my whole place. They confiscated anything with removable Storage, I think they say, anything with removable storage, they took it. So any hard drive, any cell phone, laptops, obviously they took, I had a safe in the bedroom. I had my safe in the bedroom with a bunch of money in it,

fucking ammunition, fucking, I had like a thousand cards or something like that printed. Because what I would do is I would get ahead of myself. Like if I wasn't busy, I would be bored, I would just print it and make a thousand cards. just in case you got any blanks just to stick them in the safe and then if I needed to I would go ahead and boss them and code them

and you know just streamline the whole process and then um so yeah they confiscated everything took my safe and he gave me a card and I had guns at the house they didn't take none of my guns I had my concealed weapons license I had firearms all over the house they didn't take any of

I had weed at the house and this is South Carolina Illegal at that time Marijuana is illegal in South Carolina fuck yeah still is still a little They don't have, they don't, they're fucking, hicks over there. They ain't legalizing that shit. Yeah, that's the fucking, uh, exactly. He was balls deep in the Bible belt.

And, um, yeah, you said you were, you, I mean, you had told me. I remember you would said, they were, anything we should know about? You said, well, I've got guns. They were like, well, we're not the ATF. Yeah, he's like, we're not the ATF. And I was like, I got a little bit of weed, too. He's like, well, how much weed do you got? I was like, well, it's not pounds.

It's a little bit, you know what I mean? I smoke every day. I have been since I was, you know, a little kid, but. Yeah, they didn't take the weed. They left all my fucking, they left my drugs and my guns. They only wanted the fucking, the credit cards and all the equipment and everything. And then he gave me... And he didn't arrest you.

They didn't arrest me. He gave me a business card and he gave me a date on the back of the business card. He said, I need you to be here on this date. If not, you're going to have a warrant up for your arrest. And so, yeah, I had to go to the Secret Service headquarters in Columbia, South Carolina. And I walk into a room and there's this long fucking table. And I walk into this room and there's like eight dudes sitting around the table. And in the middle of this table.

And in the middle of this table, they got all these screenshots laid out in front of them of Carter. Of fucking all the Carter forums I was on. They had screenshots of my posts on the forums. They had screenshots of all my fucking people who I had been dealing with. They had screenshots of ICQ chats with me. So apparently I had been chatting with the Secret Service. Like they were buying cards from me. What?

Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know any of this. And they still couldn't. fucking track. They still couldn't find you. Well, man, I was bulletproof. Yeah. Whoa, dude. They still didn't arrest him. And they still didn't arrest him. So I go down there, right?

So he hasn't been indicted yet. Do you see what I'm saying? So are they, what are they trying to do? Well, they have it, they got to put together a case. So they're trying to build their case? They, they, would they, and this is just a theory of mine. But they thought they got the little fish and they were trying to get the big fish. There was a big fish, though. There was a big fish to get. Just not in the United States.

States. Yeah. Yeah. So they were using you to build a bigger, like a bigger, like a bigger RICO case. They were hoping that I was going to pop the lid off of some kind of big conspiracy. Big, you know, big multinational crime ring fraud, you know, which I mean, I was a part of, but I, I didn't have the keys to unlock that door. So you were, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, listen, you know. Yeah, shoulder surfer is just a fucking, like a, I guess some guy online. Weren't you dealing with like the Russian mob? That's shoulder surfer. Yeah. I didn't know until. later that that that's what was going on like i had no clue until after until i fucking put two and two together and figured everything out and i'm like oh shit that's pretty fucking intense man

shoulder surfer was part of the russian fucking mafia yeah either he was plugged in or he they used him to because he was a tech guy or i don't know how he ran um he ran they used all kinds of yeah it's not like he's a made guy that's what i was that's what i was saying oh okay no yeah i know he was over there doing doing you know that that's what he's kids do over there. I mean, it's been going on over there for, that's where it actually started at. It started in Europe, you know, way before it came over here. I mean, they had the, they had the chip and pin system over there. Years before we did over here. Do you remember talking about that? You remember talking about that when I was telling, when I was asking you about like that, because when we were talking, they were just implementing the chips. The chip in the United States. And I was like, bro, man, they're going to come out with those chips and it's over. And you go, you go, they've been making them fucking chips forever. What are you fucking talking about? You don't need to be.

We're five or to ten years behind Europe when it comes to all that shit. Yeah. So they get everything first and it trickles down to us. Because we're, you know, we're a, what do they call that? What? A corporatocracy. A corporatocracy. Yeah, that's what we are here.

Yeah. Slow to. But where were we? Yeah. So that's basically. Anyway, so yeah, they brought you in with a bunch of people. They weren't arresting you. No, they weren't arrest me.

They were trying to do. They were trying to figure out who I was, who I knew. Trying to get more people. Yeah, I had to give up all my passwords to all my emails, all my ICQ chats, all of the forums. You know, so I'm sure that they're like, if you log on, we'll know. If we see you on any of the fucking forums, we'll know. You know what I mean? Blah, blah, blah.

We'll come and arrest you. So I was like, you know, it is what it is. And they know, they didn't take me to jail. It was weird. And, you know, and they just, after that, after I went there and I met with all those people and they were asking me all these questions. I got interrogated. You know, do you know this person? and they show me this.

They're like, do you know this? They show me screen names. Do you know this person? Do you deal with this person? You know, do you speak Russian? Do you code? All this shit, you know? And, um...

Do you code? Yeah. They want to know if I was like, you know, they want to know what the spectrum, what my spectrum of knowledge, I think, was, you know, to try and to see where they could implement me, you know, because there was this whole, what was the name of the operation,

remind me, Matt? Well, uh, open market? Open market. Yeah, there was Operation Open Market going on at this. time. Matt can explain it a little bit better than I can because Matt, you actually researched it, that I didn't really do it, you know. Because basically he was, basically there was a Carter.s.U.

Like, Carter.S.U. was the one that, the main form that he was using. And they got, and so what happened was after, keep mind, after he left, I'm still getting documents in. So things he's telling me happen. When you say after he left. After John left prison, I had written a synopsis, and I had like 60 pages of notes, right? 60, 70 pages of just notes.

I might have had 80 pages of notes, actually. So I wrote a synopsis, which was maybe 20 pages. Well, no, it was like 15 pages long. That's the one that's the one I sent you that's on my YouTube channel, okay, and the website. So that's a short version. Then I wrote the book. So I had already decided I'm going to expand this into a whole book. because there's so much good shit here.

So I start getting stuff in. I got the indictment, the Carter. Dot S.U. indictment, I'm pretty sure it's open market. Yeah, yeah, it's open market. Dark market was the other one. Open market. So Carter.org.

S.U. was being run out of Russia. And that was the form. And the Secret Service had an investigation into it and was called Operation Dark Market. No, open market. Open market. Where they indicted like, I don't know, what they, like 150 or 50 people, something like 50 or 100 people, whatever, and a whole bunch of John Does and that sort of thing.

And that's when, remember he said, so after he left, after he left the UPS store, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, after he leaves South Carolina, they let him go. He's interviewed, like, there's a lot of little things. Like, I didn't know, like, he just said they took pictures of them in front of UPS store. Like, I didn't even know that. Like, I was like, when he said that, I thought. It was like a booking. Yeah, but in front of the UPS store?

Like, I didn't know that. Like, I'm thinking, that's kind of, you know, they turn, you know, in, you know, I'm saying. Yeah, right there. Like, I didn't know that. I remember the thing where the blow thing, because I mentioned that in the book, the blow thing where you, you said that it flashed through your head. Anyway, so after he leaves there for South Carolina, he goes and gets some cash and he gets money out of the bank, right? How much money did you have in the bank at this point? About 200 grand.

Okay. My BLA. So he, no, I think he's talking about the money that was in. like U.S. Plastico, like in the fucking a couple million. What was U.S. Plastico was what? The U.S. Plastico account? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, at this point, yeah. So, U.S. Plastico?

Right. Remember, that's the, that fucking A, my eye is, I think I just rub something in my eye. Oh, okay, sorry. He laughs. When are we talking about now? We're talking about in South Carolina, after the Secret Service let you go.

And you go to Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a little over two and a half, million dollars or something like the bank at this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he goes and gets a couple hundred thousand out of the bank, and then he gets like a hundred thousand or so in cash he had. Weren't you,

you were cool with keeping two and a half million dollars in the bank at this point? Like, you got a service on your ass? Well, the account wasn't in my name, obviously. Yeah, nothing. I set the account up. So there's, you didn't feel like there was any risk and keeping it? There was no risk.

There was no risk at all because it was a corporate account. Okay. And you know, a corporate account that was in a business's name that you were not affiliated with. Exactly, yeah. That has set up under a big. fake identity. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. So he grabs some... Money laundering 101. So he grabbed some of the money. A fake, a fake fucking person's got a bank account with $2.5 million in it. So he grabs some of the money

goes back to Miami. Obviously, there's a worn out version. Well, I guess they... No, like this time there wasn't. No, there wasn't then, but they indict you. They waited, yeah, yeah. They waited like a couple years. They waited like three years.

Yeah. Put a warrant out from my arrest. I thought I had fucking got... Three years after that. Listen, I thought I had gotten away with everything. Because... Yeah, remember he goes... He goes...

He's still, he's still, He uses his real ID to go in and buy a gun. Because listen, at this point, I thought I was going to prison. I'm convinced that I'm going to prison. Right. But after so long... You know what I mean? Yeah.

How old are you at this point? Late 20s. Oh, maybe mid-20s, 25, 26, 27, yeah. With the prison when I was 27, so... Yeah. So he goes... Then he goes to Miami. 24 years old with two and a half million bucks in the bank from credit card fraud.

Listen, you... That's pretty wild. How many fucking Cadillacs have you owned? Oh, all. of them. I mean, I did, yeah, yeah. Now it's Mercedes.

Well, you worked at a Chevy manufacturer. No, I worked for GM. I worked for General Motors when I was like 19. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, I watched all the dope boys

growing up driving Cadillacs and shit, you know what I mean? And then I finally got my STS. But not so much to Dunks. They were like the older, you know, 60s, 67, 70s. It was like the 70s. I'm more like, yeah,

I'm more like 80s. 80s muscle cars, you know, like the dope boys. The cutlasses, the regals, the Monte Carlo's, you know what I mean? And then I started getting into, like, the caddies, like, STS, the CTS. I had them all. I had a Deville, had the DHS, had two DHSs, had three CTSs.

I had four STSs. I had a red one, a white one, a black one. Wow. Yeah. Gave a fucking Cadillac away to some stripper. Yeah. Why'd you give it to her? Suck good dick?

Really? Yeah. That's worth it. Yeah, it's worth a Cadillac. I don't know about that. But anyway, so, yeah. So he goes back to Miami and goofs off for like a year. And that's when you met.

What was the rich kids? What was the rich kid's name? Oh, not my wife. You're talking about it. No, the rich kid. Giovanni. Giovanni. Yeah, Giovanni.

Yeah. Who was Giovanni? Euro trash. This was fucking just kid I met in Miami Beach, just fucking trust fund kid, living off his dad's money. And, you know, just Euro trash. Strip club, fucking cocaine, partying, you know what I mean? Just that type of dude.

But he was plugged in everywhere. He knew everybody. Really? Every fucking buddy, dude. He knew everybody. Like, he had a, he had a badass fucking, uh, uh, condo at the top floor of this fucking, this building on, uh, Brickle in downtown Miami. And, dude, we used to party.

Like, I've never been to Brooklyn before. I remember going to his, I got out of prison. Oh, really? Yeah, I remember going to his place and party and dude with, like, Brooke Hogan. It's like, financial district. And fucking, dude, a lot of fucking people would be there just fucking hanging out. And I'd walk in up, like, what the fuck is going on here, dude? You know what I mean?

Um, it's just wild shit. The chick from, um, that one chick from, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Orange is the New Black. Name American Pie. Well, she was in Orange is a New Black as well. Oh, is she? Yeah, what's her name? Natasha Leon or whatever.

Is that her name? No, no, she's a comedian, actually. She's actually a really funny comedian. No, it's something like that. So who is this kid? Giovanni, what is his deal? Giovanni, like I said, he was just a fucking Euro trash, you know? But he was, he was...

What was his connection to you? No, nothing. No, I was just saying... No, nothing. But, yeah, that's just like part of the wild, just a wild shit I went. Because he basically went for like a year. There's so many characters like that guy in Miami, I feel like. He went for like a year or so and didn't do anything. Like didn't do anything but just basically hang out with Giovanni and party and blow money.

But then the money ran out of money. And then he started carting again. That's when the second indictment. That's when that's why I was saying I got another indictment in. Remember I? Okay. Do you think if you wouldn't have started carting again, you would have never gone to prison? Well, they still would have got you for the first.

I mean, I had a warrant, you know, at that time. So I was going to prison. It was inevitable. You know what I mean? I had a mandatory minimum, by the way, a mandatory minimum, 24 months with the aggravated identity. After I got everything, you know, reduced down. I mean, they won. There was like 10 months, 10 years is like, what, 150 months?

120. 120 months. That's what I was looking at initially. It was 120 months. Yeah. At 25, I was 26. Yeah, so I would be almost 40 by the time I got out. So he started carting again.

went back on the forum, started carting again. That's all I knew. That's what I knew. Because he basically ran on money. You weren't working. You were spending all the millions that you had. Yeah, I was running through it pretty fast. So he starts carting again, and that's when you guys jumped. Like, we've been jumping back and forth. That's a lot of strippers and... It's a lot of cocaine and strippers.

Yeah, while I was flying private as well, back and forth from Vegas to... Oh, yeah, you were flying private? How much money were you fucking blowing on private planes? Well, you get a package. Like, people don't know this. You get like a package. You pay them like $120,000, 100 grand or something like that. Were you doing the timeshare thing? You get so many hours. So you get so you pay X amount of dollars.

You get so many hours of flight time. Time share. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get so many hours of flight time. Right. You know what I mean? So a bunch of people will basically throw in money on a bunch of planes or whatever. Exactly.

Yeah. So it's not, you know, it's not like I was. It's not like owning your own jet. No, I didn't have a pride and own my own private jet. That's stupid. That's such a waste of fucking money. Well, I mean, unless you got, unless you own a private jet money. Unless you own an NBA team.

Yeah, sometimes you get these guys have ridiculous. Or if it's like a write-off or something like that where you can business, something like that shit. But yeah. But yeah, no, I was, you know, I was doing that. And so, yeah, I was flying. I was doing Vegas a lot. And I was going back and forth from, like, Fort Lauderdale to Vegas.

And I was doing, like, the Miami Euro trash scene. And it just, you know, it was just getting out of hand. You know what I mean? It was just all getting completely out of hand. Just like piles of cocaine and hookers on private planes flying in a fuck. I don't know. It wasn't like that crazy. I mean, I think I only like Scarface.

I think I only took a striper. a stripper on a plane like one time. Yeah, it was all fucked up. I had a town car come pick us up from Scarlett's Cabaret and drive us straight to the Fort Lauderdale Executive fucking airport and hop on the fucking... But that's in Miami. When he was in Miami, that's when he got caught. Remember the thing when he told you about Brickel or about the courier?

Because you guys jump forward. I was going to say something. Say it. Yeah. Say it. After he started carting again, that's when he went to go. pick up a package at a at a a a an HQ and

he saw the secret service a yeah we skipped around a minute yeah we skipped around a lot so yeah that's when the courier got grabbed and that's when they and then when he came in also when I was in like a border bookstore and I seen the same dude that grabbed the courier come in right and that's when I knew my fucking VPN was bullshit right that's what I knew whatever whatever I was doing wasn't doing something right I got sloppy and so he went to temple Paris yeah all this happened after I got caught the first time by the Secret Service. So that's when he went to Temple Terrace.

Remember he said he got grabbed in Temple Terrace? So that's when he left Miami, went to Temple Terrace, which was where I grew up, by the way. Where is Temple Terrace again? Temple Terrace is... Tampa? It's just outside Tampa. Oh, yeah. It's the ghetto.

It's like the ghetto side of Tampa? Basically, people think Temple Terrace is kind of like a suburb. It's actually his own little city. But yeah, it's basically... It's like Hillsboro. Hillsboro and fucking... So he was there. That's when he gets arrested.

for the final time. And that's when they sent you to Coleman. Right. Yeah. You're right. So, man, I know we were jumping around back and forth. But that's when he got arrested in, uh, in, and that's a, in a Cadillac. It's like, every, every report I would get in, Cadillac, Cadillac, Cadillac.

I just think it's so fucking amazing. I put that one in the river. Oh, yeah. And I didn't, I didn't, so I didn't even tell him the story. Yeah. Like, I completely fucking forgot I put a Cadillac in the river. No, you. No.

And then I didn't even tell Matt the story. story or something. No, wait. I think I had mentioned it. I don't remember fucking how it happened, but he got a police report. And then he's T-C-A, he was like, oh, I got this police report. He said you put a, you drove a car into something. And I was like, oh yeah, I fucking forgot about that. You did tell me that. You had

told me over lunch one time. I didn't write it down. Like, I didn't write it down in our note, like when we were taking notes, I didn't write it down. He just happened to tell me one day he was driving his buddy's car. It was your buddy's car. It was my cat lag. It was mine. I don't think it was a Cal. It wasn't a

Cadillac at all. You put in the fuck? I had a Cadillac at the time. That's right. It was my, I had a grand damn. And so he raced a car and jumped it into, lost control, jumped it and it went into like a canal or something. And so he had told me this story. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, when I ordered all these documents, I happened to get this police report in. And I'm reading and I'm like, the fuck is this? And I was like, this is when he told me he was racing his buddies. He's like doing donuts and the fuck or driving around is I was playing Tokyo drift through the apartment complex Yes yeah they were trying to see how you could drift

And he ends up that's right They were playing a video game or something And they were talking about fucking drifting I was Tokyo drifting through the fucking apartment complex Hit the curb Right where you pull up into my spot at There was like you know like the little parking block And then there was like a hill and a canal

And I was just going too fast And fucking over down the hill into the canal And I read the cop report We're all drunk sure enough Car full girl I was trying to fuck this one girl That totally fucking turned her off for the night That kind of killed the whole move

killed the whole mood for the night and fucking bummed me out yeah that's hilarious there were all these little ridiculous things that he had told me that I would get these documents in and at that point you were in that halfway house I think and I'd call and he'd answer and I'd be like well what's up with I got this thing and he'd be like oh yeah

I think it's so fucking crazy how much time did you did you do total in prison I think it was almost about it was 24 months Yeah 24 months of two years two years. I think it's so fucking wild how much shit that you did and you only got two years Well, are you saying the 24 months? You're not including like the halfway house Because his yeah, that's halfway house included his victims Oh, you got I got six months halfway house not with me. What about the second time when you got arrested? Oh, yeah, after I got out

Yeah, you got out, you got arrested. You're not including that. So you went in for two years How long is that? How long was that? Oh, about six months Okay, so that's 30 months That's 30, it's about three years then All together So you did two years in Coleman Got out and then you did You started carting again

Yeah I started fucking around again Right as soon as I got out of my house And this was after Matt met you wrote the synopsis And he was trying to call you Yeah yeah yeah I got on started fucking around again And then you got six months

You were talking on the phone You just disappears Talk on the phone And it's like yeah Yeah Just one day Phone's fucking disconnected And listen to this shit

Dude I got fucking I got so I order So I go back through my connect, right? I call my dude from China and I got holograms coming in. Right? After, this is after I'm living in Miami. I just got out the halfway house. I'm in a fucking studio bedroom.

I'm in a studio apartment. And I was in like, I was living in like a little Havana or something like that in Miami. What happened to the bank account with all the money and it was completely depleted? It's gone. I don't have access to it. Yeah. I don't have access to that. What happened to it?

My debit cards. and all that shit got thrown out my wife because we were getting pulled over so when I got picked up in Temple Terrace I thought for sure they're going to come to the house and search when I got picked up You know what I mean?

I was unaware that I had a warrant from the other shit from years prior or whatever and that's what it was for so when I told my wife I was like listen as soon as you get home get rid of everything whatever I have there

just get rid of it. You know what I mean? Dispose of it. Okay. And because I thought they were going to come and search. And if they would have found all that shit, I would, I would, fuck, I'd still be in prison. You know? They would have built a prison and named it after me.

So, and, um, so yeah, she went home and she got rid of everything. She fucking just destroyed everything. threw it away. I don't know what the fuck she did with it. And so I go to jail. And I was in jail for a little while. And then I come home and I was like, you know, she's like, I got rid of everything. I was like, where are the debit cards?

Did they ever come? to search for it? No. No. They never came to my house to search because the warrant wasn't for that. I wasn't getting picked up for that like I thought I was. I thought I was getting picked up for specifically what I was doing at the moment, but it was for what I had already done. And so yeah, it's the, to clarify, the warrant that he was being picked up on was for the South Carolina arrest, which they'd already confiscated all of their stuff.

Right. He's thinking it's for a second indictment out of out of Nevada. So he's thinking they're going to come to the house again. But they don't come to them. And you already had bought a shitload of more equipment. I had all new equipment. You had all kinds of cards and money on it.

I read up and went for a fucking second run. Yeah. Okay. So you told you. I was trying to do the big dirty. You call your wife up. I'm trying to do the big dirty. She tossed all the cards.

And what did you do with all the equipment? She tossed it. Through it. So you came home after going to jail for how long? I was gone for, I was only going like a week or something like that, a week or two. So I had to go to court and then all that shit. So all your money is on all these different...

It was spread out and all these different debit cards. How much money was it? I want to say... I know the B.O.A, for sure, had over a million dollars in it at the time. And then I maybe had... Maybe 120,000 spread out throughout the Western Union cards. Because, I mean, I had close to $3.5 million at the beginning. But I went on just a rampage, like a two-year...

your rampage, almost. And then I met my wife in Miami, and then I calmed down. I tried and it was like, okay, I'm just going to go straight now. So all of those cards, the million, one point, whatever million? Gone. Just gone. Poof. It up and vanished like a fucking fart in the wind, and there was nothing I could do about it.

And believe me, I'm still sick to my stomach to this day. What was your reaction when you found out she threw everything away? I snapped out, but it was just like, my initial reaction was I snapped out, and then we sat down and we had a conversation about it. It was like, I tried to go and look where she said she threw the stuff away at, and the garbage had been taken out. You know what I mean? Like, I was thinking about going to the fucking landfill and digging through fucking,

like, I just didn't, like, I didn't know. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? Like, all these ideas are running through my head. Like, this can't be it. Like, this just can't be it. It can't. This can't be the end of it. This can't be the end.

This can't be it. And it was just, it was over. It was fucking all over. Yeah. It's all over. Going to the landfill, that's extremely. stream. Yeah.

People have done much worse for fucking less money for half that amount. You know what I mean? So I'll go fucking dig through fucking piss and shit. You know what I mean? To get those goddamn debit cards back. But they were just gone. Everything was gone. And it was over.

The ride was over. I had literally no money, like nothing. I had maybe 10,000 in cash in a fucking shoebox somewhere. And that was it. And I was going to prison. And I was out on fucking, uh, um, um, That's another thing. Supervised release. Here's the, and they let him out on Bond again.

That's what I understand. I can't get fucking Bond. They let him out. They grab him. They keep letting him out. They let him out again. And then he doesn't report. He stops, he goes to fucking Michigan, went to Michigan, came back, and then eventually they catch up with them how many, how long after they called up with you? I don't know. I forget. If there was a month or two months or whatever. I don't remember. It wasn't that long, though. They rated your uncle's, was it your uncle or cousin? Yeah, my uncle called me. It's like, dude, the fucking U.S. Marshals just kicked in my door.

And I was just like, I got the marshal. He's like, dude, I just got done burning. Oh, fucking OG calls me up. He's like, dude, I just got done burning. The fucking U.S. Marshals kicked my door. And I'm like, I got the Marshall's report for that. Like they staked. Yeah, they stake.

That's why I said, that's one of the reasons I wanted to go back and get the document to show you. Remember you, you said, you said, you said, dude. Dude, it was a bad trip. I'm like, dude, I'm sorry, man. Fucking, I don't even- Killed my buzz. He's like, dude, it was a bad trip. I was like, dude, I'm sorry, bro.

I didn't know, you know. I'm sorry. You would probably know, like, looking at the documents, you, like, they, like, sat out somebody, some fucking guy's house. Like, they're staking out all these fucking houses. He had gone. Yeah, where he's not even in Michigan.

He'd gone there, came back. And then they caught up with you somewhere. So what do you do after you find, after you fucking have this coming to Jesus moment where you realize all of your millions of dollars are gone and you have nothing. It was all downhill after that. These are the bad times.

Is that when you started fucking, what happened? Yeah. Now what happens? Dude, I'm broke. I got fucking, I'm married. I got a kid that's not like nine months old. I go to prison.

I'm broke. I go to prison. And it was, I fucking, I lost everything. Everything I had, all my cars. Everything I had.

Like my, I don't know, all my sneakers, fucking, I'm like, in prison, I'm like, okay, at least I'm going to get out and have some gear. You know what I mean? At least I'm fucking getting out and having fucking a little something. You know what I mean?

Some clothes, some shoes, you know what I'm saying? So the shit, the fruits, all the shit that I had fucking got with all, you know what I mean? At least I'll have that when I get out. All fucking gone. Yeah. Wife got knocked up by some other dude. No. I swear to God.

Oh, I didn't know that. I get out. I'm in a halfway house. Were you still talking to your wife when you were in prison? I remember when she kept. She didn't really write me that much. She never came. I didn't get one visit the whole time I was there, the whole two years.

She wrote me like once or twice. No, you were getting email. She was emailing you? Yeah, but those got cut off after a minute. Oh, okay. And so I was like, whatever. Did you worry about it when you were in there? No, I wasn't.

Because she, every time I talked to her, she's like, baby, everything's fine. I love you. So to give her a little bit of credit, thank you for that. You know what I mean? That kept you kind of same. Thank you for not shitting. I'm like, listen, I'm fucking. fucking this dude right now and you know what I mean like yeah at least you know what I mean

I mean at least fucking fucking you know what I mean I can see that my time was a little bit easier I mean I didn't really have that much time yeah whatever and uh yeah I get out I'm in the halfway house she's got some dude living with her at her fucking mom and dads right I'm fucking her I'm fucking her the day I get out of the halfway house the day I get out I'm fucking her and she's going back to this dude she's got living with that's my wife dude we're fucking married we have a kid together what are you doing you fucking retard you know what are you doing yeah So she's still with this dude And I'm still fucking her

You know what I mean? Like So Yeah So she dips out Like one day she just disappears And she goes to fucking Nebraska She disappears to Nebraska

And I'm on I'm on I'm on federal probation At this time Because I just got out of a halfway house I'm on federal probation And she just disappears I'm like okay

Whatever I'm in Miami I'm fucking I'm working at this warehouse In Miami and it's grueling, man. I mean, I'm having to wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning. And I was living in, I was living on like 12th in Flagler in Little Havana,

which is like right by Miami High School, which is kind of like by downtown, but not really, like you've got to go down Flagler or ways before you get downtown Miami. And so I had to walk every morning because I didn't have a car. I didn't have shit when I got out of halfway house. I didn't have nothing. No money. I came home to nothing.

No nothing. I had like fucking one pair of shoes that I got bought while I was in prison. From prison commissary, fucking Nike's. Fucking, this is... Can you buy Nike's in prison commissary? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What?

Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. I mean, they're not nice, but they're not like fucking retro Jordans or anything. I still got socks and T-shirts and shit from fucking prison. Really? I still wear. Oh, I fucking got rid of all that shit. Fucking still wear.

You buy a bronze in prison? No, they're not cool Nikes. You know what I mean? It's not, they're not the good ones. You know what I'm saying? But they're, they're Nikes. So, yeah, so I'm rocking prison Nikes. You know what I mean?

I'm getting up at 3 o'clock in the morning, and I'm fucking, I got to walk all the way downtown Miami from 12th in Flagler. And that's a rough part of town in Miami. That's a fucking pretty rough part of Miami. And at 3 o'clock in the morning, there's no buses running. So I got to walk all the way downtown at 3 in the morning

because I got to catch the very first train that leaves downtown Miami that goes all the way to fucking Hialea, which is an hour train ride. But I got to catch the first one because I got to be to work at a certain time in the morning. So I got to catch the first train to go an hour to catch a bus, to ride a bus, an hour to go to work. To work fucking in a warehouse for,

10, 12 hours a day, and then have to run that whole fucking back again all the way to the house. And I was doing that as soon as I got out of prison. You know what I mean? I'm used to driving brand new fucking cars and doing whatever the fuck I want to do. And now I'm a fucking cockroach

down here in Miami doing nothing. So I was like, I could only take a couple months of that. And I was just like, I was at my breaking point to where I was like, listen, I'm going to kill myself. Like this is, there's, because for me, let me look at me. I'm fucking tattooed. I mean, I haven't a job. I have my associate's degree.

You know what I mean? And I kind of feel like I can articulate myself well, and I have a vocabulary, and I speak well, but that people don't see that. And people don't give a fuck about your associate's degree when you bend the prison and you look the way I do. They just don't care. So any kind of situation that I go into that's a regular kind of employment situation, I'm not making it fucking very high on the corporate ladder.

No. You know what I mean? You made that decision a long time ago. Yeah. That's, it is what it is. And I'm fine with that. But here I am, I have to have a job. because I'm on probation.

You know what I mean? I'm federal fucking probation. And I got this probation officer, which she was really fucking cool. She didn't really give a shit what I did. But I can only do it for two months, and I was just over it. And I was just like,

I can't do this anymore. I'm fucking over it. And I was fucking this girl from the halfway house that I met in the halfway house. And like her brother, like I started fucking with her brother. And her brother kind of was like, wanted to like, he kind of knew about like,

I kind of told him like what I had done. like my past and kind of knew about like everything and he was like, he kind of wanted to jump into it and he kind of put up the money. He didn't kind of, he did put up the money. He put up the money and we bought the equipment and I fucking suited up for another run, dude, the third one. I'm like, you know what?

This is going to be the big dirty. The last hurrah. I'm going to get a million and I'm going to go ahead and invest it and you know what I mean, open like a legitimate business and pay taxes and all that shit. Didn't go that way. She turned out to be a complete fucking psychopath.

Wait, is this the chick that stabbed you? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Listen, this story, like, there's a whole other series of stories. Like, he got this. This chick stabbed me with a pair of scissors and almost killed me. Where did she stab you?

In my chest. Bounced off my breastplate. Yeah, almost killed me. And then, so yeah, that whole thing went pretty south, pretty fast. And then, so then I'm fucking with this chick. And her brother wants to, you know, get into it. and he bought the equipment So yeah

So I order my I contact my My dude in China And I get some Some hologram sent in And they get They get stopped at customs Because I'm tracking my package

And I can see it says customs hold on it So I'm like Fuck They got it Which it's fine Because I'm like It's not in my name It's not coming to my apartment

Right right Right Right I get about a week Two weeks later I get two DHL The delivery service

D.HL dudes at my door knocking and I look at my people and I see two DHL dudes and I'm like, what the fuck? So I opened the door. Two. Two. And he's got this yellow, he's got this envelope in his hand and it's wrapped in yellow tape. And that's anything that comes from China. I don't know if you've ever ordered anything from China.

But they use this, this industry, you can see it from a mile. If you see it, you know what it is. Like anything that comes from China, like if you order bulk, anything from China, they wrap it in this yellow fucking tape. You know what I mean? So I seen the package in a hand, and I knew exactly what it was immediately

because I had ordered holograms from this dude before. So right then and there, I'm like, fuck. And he's like, he's like, they were like, and I didn't have my name on it, obviously. He's like, he was like, this is the package is for you. And he showed me to him like, no, they don't live here. And he's like, he's like, you're sure? He's like, how long have you been living here?

I was like, I just moved in. That's already too many questions. About a month ago. I was like, yeah, I was like, are you sure? Do you, hey, he's like, so, he's like, okay. And so I closed the door. And he walked away. And I immediately, I was like,

Fuck me. Fuck me. Fuck me. Fuck me. Fuck me. I'm done. I'm going back to prison. Come on, listen, I just got out of prison. I just got out of a fucking federal halfway house. I'm on federal probation. You know what I mean? It's all bad. It's just all bad. And so he comes back to the door. I haven't heard this. I've told you the story. I knew you got arrested. I knew he got arrested. Like we were on the phone when he said, fuck, they showed up in my fucking house. They grabbed me. They read. No, they brought arrested. They brought you downtown. I knew that. But I haven't heard this whole thing. Yeah. And so yeah.

So then I hear bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang at the door. I'm like, fuck. He's like, police. And then now they're yelling police. So I'm like, fuck, dude. I'm looking at the side window. You know what I'm saying? I'm thinking about jumping out the fucking side window and then he's dipping. I'm like, wait a minute.

I'm thinking in my head. I was like, I don't have anything here. I was like, they don't fucking have anything on me. I was like, all the hell is this package that came to my door. And you've already denied it. And I've already denied it. And I've already done it. So I opened the door back up.

I'm like, I'm going to fucking ride this thing all the way out. Fuck these motherfuckers. Yeah. You know what I mean? Who the fuck do they think they are? Coming to here trying to arrest me. You know what I mean? I'm fucking talk my way out of this shit like I do everything else.

I'm talking my way out of it, right? And I'm still, I got them convinced at this point. Like, I got them convinced at this point that it might not be me. Like, they think it's me, but they might not, they might not be me. And I haven't, I haven't, I have, I'm not registered to this address. Oh, and you haven't, they don't have, they haven't given, I haven't given them my driver's license or anything yet. Right.

Okay. I didn't know. So I'm, we're talking. we're in my kitchen, FedEx shows up with a giant fucking box. Of what? A fucking embossing machine. Somebody else ordered an embossing machine to your address?

That's crazy. Who would do that? While they're in there talking to you. While the fucking, I almost had them. I almost fucking had them until the fucking FedEx fucking shows up with this giant box. I didn't know. That's good shit.

And when the box shows up, it shows up to the same name. as the fucking, as the holograms were showing up for. And the police went out there and talked to him. That probably worked it to your advantage, though. No, it didn't because they went out here and talked to him. And he's like, he's like, yeah, I've delivered several packages to this address. And he's signed for him. Right there they fucking had me.

No. Right there they fucking had me. Yeah, they knew. I couldn't talk my way out of it then. They knew. And I had to give my ID and they ran. They found out what I'd just been to prison for. And they're like, okay.

All right. So at this point, I'm like, oh, I'm fucked. this is it it's all over with I'm going back to fucking prison all right I just got out

I'm fucking going back so he's like we want the lab they kept saying we want the lab we want the lab yeah the print shop because I guess

they had just busted some people because Miami's huge for fraud yeah Miami's like fucking fraud central in the United States

it's fucking New York Miami Las Vegas and and Los Angeles or like the crime hubs for

for credit card fraud and for identity theft and all that shit so I'm going to turn fingers are turned blue cutting out the circulation

um what the fuck's I saying they wanted the lab Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah we want the lab We want the lab And um So I mean This next part's gonna fucking kind of sound kind of bad

My part When you snitch Oh for sure I did yeah I'm not going back to prison Right I'm not going back to prison Okay Massa

This is great Fuck these motherfuckers Fuck these motherfuckers You know what I mean? That's my attitude Right I'm not going back to prison For these motherfuckers

That I don't even know Right You know what I mean So they're like We want to laugh We want to laugh I'm like all right So this dude's the mastermind

I told them You know what I mean This dude's the fucking mastermind I threw Buddy under the bus I'm sorry buddy If you ever watch this I'm fucking sorry His name is buddy

No his name's not buddy Oh okay I'm fucking sorry dude I apologize But I wasn't going back to prison I apologize. Yeah.

My bad. Who was the, it wasn't the Secret Service, though, that grabbed you. This was the Miami Financial Crimes Unit. So I was like, is this federal? That's the first thing I asked him.

I was like, is this federal? He's like, no, it's not federal. I was like, okay, now I got some wiggle room. Then I knew I had some wiggle room. You know what I mean?

Because if it's federal, you're fucking, you're done. They're just going to indict you, and then you can cooperate. And you're still going to, you're still going to prison. Yeah, so if it was federal,

I was like, you know what? Let's go right now. Right. Because it would have done me no good to fucking to do anything. But it was local. So I knew I had some wiggle room. You know, you can work with them. So I gave them the dude's fucking address.

And then the dude fucking calls me while they're there. All this is happening. They're just a wrong fucking day, dude. The wrong day. The dude calls me because we were waiting on the embosser to come in. And I was because the lab was at his house. Because I was like, that's what I told the dude. I'm not setting all this shit up.

I got my fucking probation officer comes over here. Right. She's going to come in here and see what you ask me questions about all this equipment. I'm going to be supposed to have a fucking laptop. You know what I mean? Fuck. So we had all the shit stood up at his house. He calls me while they're there.

I had to put in a fucking speaker phone. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's talking to me. And he's like, you know, did it show up? I'm like, yeah, it's here. He's like, come drop it off now. I'm like, ah, I can't really do that. And they're like, they're both like, like, I'm like, all right, where you want to meet at?

So he's had me meet him at this fucking, I don't remember what it was, like a Publix or something like that. And he's like, oh, we gotta, we gotta mic you up. We gotta mic you up. I'm like, what the fuck are we talking about? Listen, I'm not wearing a wire, man. What the fuck are you guys talking about? You know what I mean? Like, he's like, no, no, it's not like the movies.

You know what I mean? They brought me like a fucking pager. And the pager was like a listening device. It was like a microphone. And I had to fucking wear it in my pocket when I went and dropped the fucking the thing off to him. Yeah.

So I drive, so I meet the dude at Publix. I dropped the fucking, I dropped, this whole story is wild. I dropped the fucking, I dropped the thing off with them. I wear the fucking listening device. Once again, dude, I'm sorry. I wear the fucking listening device. You know what I mean? I'm fucking such a piece of shit for this, dude.

I'm 100%, but I'm not going back to prison. Right. You know what I mean? Fuck that. I'm not going back to prison. Right. It is what it is, dude. I'm sorry.

So, yeah, I had to wear the listening device on buddy and then fucking... Meet at Publix. Meet at Publix. I dropped it off. I met with them. I drove somewhere and then one of the two dudes that were there met me there. they followed him to his house and then called in fucking reinforcements

and they fucking raided his house and found all the equipment everything they found all the equipment so he was like he's like all right he's like you can go the dude at the thing

he's like you can go I was like all right he lets you walk he let me walk but he's like we'll be in contact with you and he's like you know we have to we have to report this to your probation officer we have to

it's by law we have to right I was like, well, all right, fuck. I'm running. You know what I mean? Because now I got, I got a little while to get back to my fucking apartment, pack a bag,

and get the fuck out of Dodge, you know what I mean? You're going to get a probation violation. 1,000% I'm going to get a probation violation. Yeah. So even if the state says, even if the state says, we won't,

okay, we're not going to charge them. I was engaging in illegal activity, which is clearly a fucking violation of the rules by my fucking conduct, my probation. Yeah. Doesn't matter if you're charged.

Clearly, they don't want me, putting credit cards, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or attempting, hand they can they're gonna they're gonna violate you for anything something like that they're going to violate you for anything yeah yeah so i take off i go back to my my my my little

apartment i had um and at this time i we hadn't even started making any money yet at this time like i was still fucking working at the warehouse i still really didn't have shit me had a little bit of money because i was doing um we were making cards so i was going out and doing a little bit of store carding and shit you know what i mean just to have a few dollars here and there because i was doing bad dude i was doing fucking bad i went i went up to the used car a lot at the end at the end at the the street and got a fucking old 2003 Cadillac fucking DHS or some shit like that.

I mean it was fucked It wasn't, you know, my former glory. I was trying to get back to my former glory. You know what you ever see that fucking movie Kingpin with, you might be a little bit too young for that one. It's got Woody Harrelson in it and it's got fucking. And he's got, he's got the, he's got the GTO and he's young. And he's fucking, you see him like years down the road and the GTO's all fucked up and

he's bald and shit. Like that was me trying to make a comeback. Here I am trying to make a comeback. Come trying, fuck, I got the Cadillac. You know what I mean? I'm starting to break cards again. I'm doing all right. You know, but then I got, we all got fucked up, but.

At least they gave me the heads up that they're going to notify your probation officer. Right. So I got, I had a little bit of time. So I go back to my condo, my apartment, and I pack a bag. And I call, um, I call my cousin in Detroit. And I was like, yo, he's like, I need to come. I need to come home. I need to come up there.

And he bought me a plane ticket. And I drove my, remember, I drove my Cadillac to the airport and I just left it at the airport. And I hopped on a plane. because I had no intention to ever coming back to Florida at this point. I mean, I did maybe, but not in the same car,

in the same apartment, in that, you know. So I left the fucking car at the airport and I flew to Michigan. And I hung out in Michigan. Let me see. I got out a halfway house

and I got a halfway house on my 30th birthday. It's when I got out of the halfway house. It was February 6th on my 30th birthday. And this was February. So by July, I was, this is when everything went down

was in July. Okay. So it was like five months. Okay. So then I go out to Michigan, and this time I was like, okay, I'm fucked. Obviously, I know I have a probate. I just absconded. It's got a high.

Yeah, I just absconded from probation. And I'm going to have the probation violation for the shit I just got popped for. Right. You know, so now I'm like, you know, I'm fucked pretty much. So I'm in Michigan. I'm fucking partying it up, staying at my cousin's house, just going on a rampage, just drinking. Just knowing that it's all coming out. Oh, yeah, dude.

I'm going out with a bang, you know what I mean? And so I'm partying it up. I'm like, okay, I don't give a fuck if whatever. happens happens and my wife calls me up she's in Nebraska she says I'm pregnant I need you to come out here

I said alright you know what I mean at this time I'm like fuck I can get the fuck I can go hide in Nebraska who the fuck's gonna find me in Nebraska you know what I mean there's nothing out there but corn you know it's it corn and cattle right that's it and I fuck I go hide in Nebraska

in my mind I'm like that's the perfect fucking place I go out there you know what I mean settled down I got the wife got the kids out there I could fucking hide, and maybe in a few years I'll be able to work all this fucking shit out with a lawyer or something, or maybe not. So I go out to Nebraska,

and that started shit show number two. Because it was just one fucking conundrum after another after I went out. Dude, this whole thing with my wife, and I went out there, and guys were bringing flowers by the house and fucking leaving bags of sugar at the fucking door and all kinds, just all kinds of fucking weird shit, dude. Like, yeah, it's like,

dude, this chick had every dude in this little town we lived in wanted to fuck her. You know what I mean? And they just every dude in the entire little fucking town. Because they knew where we lived. Yeah, we lived, you know what I mean? We had nice cars and we lived in the house on the main drag. And, you know, she went to McDonald's every morning for a coffee. And we both worked at these small manufacturing plants

right in this little tiny small town in Nebraska. And, yeah, I mean, shit went sideways out there real fucking fast. She started, you know, doing meth and fucking around with, you know, scumbags. And here I am, like, I don't do drugs, you know what I mean? Like, I smoke pot, which is a drug. So apparently I'm a drug addict and a liar. You're nothing like any of these other guys. Yeah.

You know, you're completely normal. Yeah, you know, but I'm not doing the hardcore drugs. Right. Fuck, I've never done heroin. Right. I'm not smoking crack. I'm not fucking, I'm not doing that shit. You know, I'm a fucking, I'm a stoner.

I don't even really drink that much. You know, I barely ever drink. So, you know, shit goes sideways out there, dude. So the baby's born with meth in its system. Bomb, they take our kids away. They take our kids away. Fuck. I got a warrant up for my arrest.

I'm laying in a hospital bed with her. Here come two fucking cops into the fucking hospital room. Wanting to lock her up and me up for drugs and this whole fucking thing. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And I didn't even know she was doing meth. I had no idea. She was doing meth while she was fucking pregnant. Oh, my God.

work at the fucking... I was working, yeah. Yeah, it was fucking all bad. Yeah, fucking piece of shit. So that happened. And then our kids got taken away. Find out the little girl, not mine. Not even yours.

I knew right away when the baby was born. She wasn't mine. That it was the other dude that she had living at her fucking mom and dad's house with her after I got out of a halfway house. You knew right when the baby was born? Yeah, I knew right away. How?

Sorry. Yeah, I knew right away. How'd you know right away? Oh, I looked at her. I looked at her. Really? I looked for sure 1,000% because I knew what the kid looked like.

All right? And this little girl looks just like that fucking kid. I mean, it's his. 1,000%. I mean, even the dates don't match up. Because when she had the baby and when I was like, I was, wait a minute, I was in the halfway house. And I remember, I was like, we had, this day, this day.

Were you doing the math? You're like, I'm doing the math. I'm like, this shit just doesn't fucking jive, dude. And you know what I mean? But here I am. Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt? Well, you know, we already had my son together. And I knew he's mine for sure.

And, you know, I still love her. Even to this day, I still love her. I still love her to death. And we're still married. Even though I haven't talked to her, we're in months, and we've been separated for four years. I haven't seen her in four years since Nebraska. So this whole thing went down in Nebraska,

and our kids get taken away. Excuse me. And I have a warrant up for my arrest. Because I just took off from, after all this shit just happened down here in Florida. Let me get some water. It's just getting wild. I'm parched.

Yeah, now I'm... Because, yeah, Keep in mind by this point, I'm, I'm done with the book. Right. The book's been written. We're in the book number two now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I said, this whole other situation.

And, um, yeah, so, you know, the cops, they get involved and I got a warrant up for my arrest. So I'm like, fuck, dude, what the fuck? You know what I mean? I'm in my head. I'm like, dude, this bitch just fucked me. You know what I mean? Like, I came out here to fucking chill and you fucked me because you're an idiot. You know what I mean?

So the fucking police get involved. involved and you know sure enough they finally figure out who I am and they run my name and they came to the house to get me one morning and this is the whole thing we tell you this story so okay so these cops show up the gummies wore off yeah yeah I was all coming to them pulling teeth before it's like yeah yeah yeah and um so so I'm working I'm working at this little machine shop next door to the house in this in this small town in Nebraska and I'm over there at work and I see two I see two sheriff's cars roll up to my house and I already knew what time it was So I call my wife and I was right next door.

I'm like, the police are outside. I'm going to jail. She's like, what, where? I'm like, they're outside the house. She's like, okay, just stay over there. And I was like, listen, if they know where I live, they know where I work. You know what I mean? He lives here.

He works there. It's not very fucking hard. So I remember what happened. I think they left. She told him I wasn't there and they left. And then they drove around the back of the shop. And then so I leave the front door of the shop and I walk into the house. And I'm fucking hiding inside the house.

And, like, the cops are, like, surrounding the house now. Now they know I have a warrant out from my arrest. They know who I am. They're there to fucking take me to jail. They got the whole fucking house surrounded, dude. They're beating on the door. They got flashlights in the windows. My wife's not, my wife's out there.

Just arguing with him on the front long. Like, he's not here. My wife, bless her heart, she's five foot even. 120 pounds, and she's Cuban. And her English isn't, you know what I mean? Not like ours. You can tell she's not a native. You know what I mean?

So she's out there arguing with them. They finally come in the house. They finally find me. in the basement. I'm inside of a cabinet. I'm hiding inside of a fucking cabinet inside of the basement. I can hear them all walking around the house for like an hour searching for me. I'm not coming out. I'm not coming out, motherfuckers. You got to come down here and find me. Hide and seek, motherfuckers, you know what I mean? You're it. You dig what I'm saying? So I'm in the basement. I'm inside of a cabinet and I'm small so I can curl up in a ball and they pull

open the cabinet door and he shines the light in there and I just stay still. And he closes the cabinet. And they was like, and they were going to walk away and then I heard, I heard the footsteps stop and then I heard somebody say something real low. He saw you. Yeah, I heard him say somebody real low. And then they fucking yank open the cabin. They got the tasers on me. They got two of them with tasers on me.

I'm like, fog. And they're like, come out your hands up. You know what I mean? So I'm trying to crawl out of this fucking cabinet, dude. And he just grabs me out of the fucking cabinet. Dude, I come outside. I'm getting arrested. My wife is fighting the police.

She's physically fighting the police in the front yard. God bless her. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I said. Like, all right. She's going ham for me. You know what I mean? Like she's fucking going ham.

She's screaming. She's fighting the police. She gets arrested. They arrest us both right there. Take us both to jail. Yeah. Our kids were already taken away. They were in like a fucking foster care or whatever like that.

We both go to jail. Yeah. So this was November of 2015. Is when I started this little journey. Is when I got arrested and we both went to jail and everything. I didn't get to South Carolina because I had to go back and see my judge in South Carolina. Because that's where my warrant was out of. I had a federal warrant out of the Southern District of Southern Carolina,

or Northern District of Southern Carolina. So I had to go back to South Carolina to see the judge. I'm in Nebraska. That's on the other side of the fucking country. You know how long it takes to ship a federal inmate from Nebraska? Not good. To fucking, to South Carolina? They don't put you on American Airlines and fly you a direct flight.

I'll tell you that much right fucking now. They don't do that. They don't do con air. They do con air, but they hop, skip, and jump you to 10 different fucking. little shithole county jails or wherever, you know, who has the contract to hold federal inmates at that time. You know, so that I'm bouncing around. Yeah.

So I go from, dude, I'm trying to remember now. I went from Nebraska to the small town I was in. I sat there for like a week. And then I went to Omaha, Nebraska, which is the big city. It's the town. It's the big town in Nebraska, which is they handle all like the big cases. I sat in Omaha for a month, maybe two weeks. I think two weeks until they transferred me.

From Omaha, I went to what's the federal prison in... Oklahoma City? No. Right next to Nebraska. It's in... In Indiana. Leavenworth?

Leavenworth. Yeah, so they transferred me from Oklahoma to Leavenworth. So sad that I know this. Yeah. Met's in a federal prison encyclopedia. Yeah. Whenever you need information. So, yeah.

So I go to Leavenworth. I'm in Leavenworth for... a couple of weeks, maybe a month. From Leavenworth, they put me on Conair, and they fly me out to Oklahoma, and I sit in Oklahoma in the federal prison out there for like a month. And, okay, mind you, when they're transferring you around,

you don't get into general population. You're in holding. You're in holding for a month. That means no commensary. That means the little tiny toothbrush with the little tiny toothpaste that doesn't fucking work. You know what I mean?

So your breath's always hot. you know what I mean? You get the little tiny deodorant because I can't buy deodorant so you get the little tiny deodorant that's one thing and it comes out and it fucking pops and hits the floor and jump you know what I mean? The one razor that just basically

just cuts you and cuts you and cuts you and cut. I mean you just have little... Yeah, I didn't even get razors. Yeah, yeah. You can request, they'll give it to you. You shave, they give it back. They watch you use it. Yeah.

Well, you take the razor out and use a knife. You know what I mean? Yeah, you can pop out the razor plate. Now you've got a razor. Oh, okay. put it on the end of it. Got it. It's fucking,

these guys are ingenious, but if you're just trying to fucking survive, like I'm not involved in all that shit, my life's miserable because you guys want to kill each other. So they transferred you back to South Carolina or what? Eventually I get back to South Carolina. After Leavenworth, yeah, I go to Oklahoma,

then Oklahoma, I go to Atlanta, I go to Lovejoy, then from Lovejoy, I get fucking transferred to some of the little... Listen, and mind you, through this whole process, I almost starve to death twice. Okay, they left me in a fucking room

to sit me somewhere for a second while they went and did something and forgot about me for like 18 fucking hours. No fucking bullshit, dude. There was nowhere to get water in the fucking room. I was gonna die.

I was gonna fucking die in that room if somebody wouldn't just open the door to see if somebody was in there. Yeah. So then I get put into some little shithole fucking jail in South Carolina where they starve you, where I almost fucking starve to death.

You know, so now I've got PTSD from that shit. So yeah, no, I finally get back out South Carolina. I don't get back out to South Carolina to see my judge until after January, after traveling from November, getting picked up in like the beginning of November. So I don't even get to see my judge until the middle of January. And how much time had passed in that time period? Like three months. Three months. 90 days. It took about 90 days to get me just to get me in front of the judge. God, bro. Yeah. And then you got six months? Yeah. And then they killed my paper.

What does that mean? They released me without federal probation. And I had, how does that happen? My probation or my judge said that I'm not a supervise. Yeah, some guy's a light, like, I'm a flight risk because they've had, listen, they've had to extradite me from, from Nebraska to South Carolina. They've had to extradite me from Florida to South Carolina multiple times. And they're like, it's just costing us too much money to ship you all over the country because you can't stay in one spot. And he keeps running. And I keep taking off. I keep absconding on probation.

But, hey, I'm not a career criminal. I'm not a drug addict You know what I mean? I'm not somebody who is in the higher category for recidivism. Yeah, he's not going to go into a bank with a fucking AK-47. It's not like it's going to bounce back on him.

I'm not a danger to the public. Yeah, I'm not going to, you know what I'm not, I'm not a raper or a stabber or nothing like that. Right, right, right. So, yeah. I'm sorry. I was going to say a lot of guys, I've known guys that have literally,

they'll get five or 10 years, they'll have five years paper. They'll get paper, meaning probation. they'll get out and violate and come back to prison. And then, so they'll violate their paper and go in front of the judge and be like, and the judge will, they used to do this all the time. They don't do it as much anymore. The judge would say, okay, look, you've got, you have three years left on your probation.

You know, if I give you a couple, if I release you and you put you back on probation, you know, you're going to be okay. And they will, you know, you're going to do the right thing. There are guys that will be like, absolutely not. I'm going to violate again. Like they'll get caught smoking pot or doing drugs. They'll go, I'm going to do drugs again, Your Honor. And they'll look at them and go, well, then you're going to go back to prison.

Well, then I'll go back to prison. But I'm going to keep doing it. And the judge will just look at them and go, would you rather I quash your paper? And they'll say, yeah, okay, well, then you've got to go to jail for a year. It's usually one-third. So they'll go, you go to jail for a year. And when you get out, you don't have any probation. Okay, I'll go back for a year.

Weird. So they'll go back for a year. Listen, I got five years paper. But the problem is I owe six million. That's rough. He's got somebody up his asshole for five fucking years. She's a nice lady, though. I mean, she is nice.

She's just strict. Most of them are nice. Yeah. They have to do their job. Right. I think of the craziest thing about all this is, like, he had a victimless crime. You basically scammed scammers. You scammed the financial institution, the banks.

Well, there were some victims in there. Yeah, there's a couple victims. There were some people off money. You had legitimate victims, like people, individuals. You were taking straight from their bank accounts, right? No. These are credit cards. They don't lose any money at all.

They do have to make some phone calls and it's a pain in the ass. But look, if I take your credit card information and I run up $5,000 on your credit card and then you get the bill in the next month and you go, holy shit. Right. You just call them and they chalk it up to fraud. Right. Yeah, you file a police reward. So you didn't lose.

You didn't steal anybody. So hard earned money. Really, I was just manufacturing financial transaction devices. Right. Yeah, that was his, that was. the actually charge was a access to, what was it called? A fraudulent transaction device. Manufacturing of a fraudulent transaction device.

Which they dropped those charges. How much more time that you got than John. It's wild, ain't it? Well, I mean. It's amazing. It is, but I was also, look, I was high profile. There was a lot of coverage. They're not going to let me skate.

The truth is, look, the truth is the people involved in my case most likely were like, if it hadn't been high profile, that they would have been like, they would have shrugged it off. I would have gotten five or ten years. No big deal. But boom, a lot of fucking press. Hammer this guy. Him, they dropped, he's supposed to get 10 years. They dropped the charge because the UPS guy never should have opened the package.

But they wouldn't drop the aggravated identity theft because they could prove that. So he got two years. Yeah, yeah, I got the mandatory minimum for that, which I got lucky. Because the guy should not have opened the package. He never should have opened the package. He didn't have authorization. He didn't have authorization. Those were sealed, sealed packages.

Does he get in trouble? No. No, but I mean, he helped me out. Yeah. He helped me and hurt me, I guess. Yeah, but I mean, look, they can't put him on the stand. He's got to either get on the stand and implicate himself. I opened a postal, I opened a piece of mail.

I broke a federal law. So most people are probably going to get on the stand and say, I can't answer that. Or he's going to get on the stand and say, look, when I called the U.S. Post Office, I felt they were instructing me to open the package. and that's why I opened it. That gives him an out. You see what I'm saying? So either of, and then guess what?

Now that's no good. What was in the package is no good as evidence anyway because he's saying you told him to do it. So either way we can't use it. So his probation, I'm sorry, his public defender got the U.S. attorney to drop that part. And he said, okay, I'll drop that. But he's got to do the two years.

And they said, and he came back to him, and he was like, fuck, two years is a gift compared to 10. So dig this, though. This is something

I didn't, I didn't forgot to tell you guys. So when I get back in front of the judge and, um, she's reading, she's reading,

uh, all of all my charges and I get my, get my paperwork back, um, with all my violations on it. Like, because it's like, uh,

there's different levels of violation. And in the federal system, like, everything's structured. Like, okay, if you fall in this category of, like a level one violation,

they can only give you X amount of months. Mm-hmm. for, and then they have to kick you back out again. Or if it's a level two, then they can give you X amount of months. Or if they, you know what I mean? So I'm going over my paperwork and I'm reading my report that my probation officer had left. And she said that she went to my apartment. She called me on several occasions and I didn't answer her calls.

So she went to my apartment and I didn't answer the door and that the landlord had just happened to be there, like cleaning it out and she said that I had moved. So she violated me from absconding for probation. Yeah. Not, not, had nothing. Those two dudes that busted me never went and fucking told them, told my probation officer, nothing. Really? Never told, never.

So I ran. I ran for no fucking reason. I could have stayed. I could have stayed in Miami and, and, and just tried to do the probation thing. I didn't know. And, you know, I didn't know they weren't going to say anything. That was fucking, who fucking knew they weren't going to stay? God damn.

She didn't know. She had no idea that any of that had even happened. and they violated me because I just absconded. Yeah. That's fucking wild, right? We just did three fucking hours. Are you serious? Yeah.

Rock and rolling. That was amazing, man. We were rocking and rolling. All right. So where can everyone listening to this and watching it find more about your story and whatever? You got any social media you want people to follow? Buy Matt's book. Yeah, no, buy the book.

His book. He's got a book called Bent. It's a memoir. Yeah, it's a memoir. Yeah, you can find it on Amazon. It's Bent, B-E-N-T. Yeah. If you just go on Amazon and you type in the search bar, Bent Cybercrime, it comes right up.

Or my channel, but you've got my channel. You've got the narration, which is just a synopsis of the book. Matt's YouTube channel, which is... It's Matt Cox and Inside True Crime. Yeah. You know, we can put the links. Yeah, or you can connect with me through my social media's, Slum by Nature at Slum by Nature, Instagram.

And... That's great. Yeah, a bunch of... the tattoo and stuff too. Hell yeah. Oh yeah, my tattoo page is jug. j-u-u-g.i-N-K. Yeah, we can leave,

but we can send him all the... Hell yeah. You send it to me. Yeah, I'll post it all. Sick. Thanks, guys. That was a wild ride. Thank you.