Danny Jones Podcast - #89 - From Brooklyn Gangs to Ping Pong in The Most Dangerous Country in the World | Wally Green

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

Wally Green grew up in one of the most dangerous housing projects in Brooklyn, where all he knew at a very young age was gangs, guns, and violence. Until he met a man to taught him how to play ping pong in his early teens. From there, Wally went to become one of the best table tennis players in the world and went to represent the United States in over 40 international competitions in over 20 countries including North Korea. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, world. Today's guest has truly one of the most fascinating life stories I've ever heard. Wally Green grew up in one of the most dangerous housing projects in Brooklyn, where all he knew at a very young age was gangs, guns, and violence. Until one day he met a man who taught him how to play ping pong in his early teens. From there, Wally went to become one of the best table tennis players in the world and went on to represent the United States in over 40 international competitions, in over 20 countries, including North Korea.

And his story about visiting North Korea is fucking mind-bending. So buckle up, say your prayers, and enjoy this fascinating conversation with Wally Green. Wally Green, dude, thank you for traveling all the way here from New York. The trip was okay, but towards... You weren't expecting the lightning storm. Yeah. Like towards the end of the trip, man, started getting a little bumpy. And, you know, it's been a while since I've been on a flight, so I forgot how that felt.

Not to mention the lady sitting across with me going, Jesus, Jesus, and her dog going the whole time. So, yeah. For the listeners that aren't familiar with who you are in your story, tell me a little bit about your background and who you are. Well, my name is Wally Green. I'm from New York City. I grew up in the projects as a young kid, at 13 years old, got into guns and gangs. I was able to change my life through the most unlikely sport. of ping pong, a sport that I hated as a kid anyway, but I guess that's what took me out

of where I was. Played all over the world for the U.S. team and then even did my own diplomacy for world peace in North Korea. So that's my story real quick. So where are you from originally? Where were you born? Originally Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York. Brooklyn.

What was that like growing up in Brooklyn? What was your childhood like? I grew up in the projects. I grew up with a lot of domestic violence, like my mom and dad. divorced probably. I don't even know when they divorced because I don't have any recollection of them together. So they divorced probably,

let's say maybe one, maybe. My mom remarried some idiot from the islands and he used to beat the mess out of her. And yeah, man, the domestic violence was crazy. It was just a crazy, really shit

childhood growing up. Your brothers and sisters? I have a stepbrother. But my stepbrother always got treated better than me, because my stepbrother was the son of her new husband, who's my stepfather. So it was that kind of thing where, you know, that's his real son. That wasn't the real son, you know. So I was the one that always got talked down, that I was going to be in jail, and I was going to die or whatever.

All the bad stuff came to me and all the good stuff came to him. So that's pretty much the childhood. Were you close with your stepbrother or no? Not really. He's the golden child. I think I had a lot of, probably animosity towards my stepbrother. I remember when we were like really young

and we had bunk beds and he pissed me off and I threw him off the top of the bunk bed. Damn, bro. I used to make him say that let's say if I broke something, he had to say he did it. So I would say, I would tell me, you better say you did it.

And then he would take the rap. Yeah, so I don't know. Why did you do that? I don't know, man. I was just because I guess I was the one that was always getting in trouble for everything. It was always me. No matter what, it was me. I always got the blame.

So I knew that if he said he did it, then he wouldn't get the ass with it, right? But if I say I did it, I would get the ass with him. So I was like, yo, say you did it. Say you did it. Yeah, so that's pretty much. What year was that? Like, what time frame was that when you were growing up in Brooklyn? From a kid to about, I mean, you.

I stayed in Brooklyn. Like 80s? Yeah, probably like 80s. And yeah, I was pretty much in that situation until about, let's say, like maybe 14. Well, actually 16. 16 was when I was still there until 16. What was it like growing up in that area, a young teenager? There is a lot of gun violence, a lot of gangs.

and you had to, here's the thing that I say. A lot of people always say, oh, you know, well, you had a choice. You had a choice. You had a choice. You don't have a choice. If you grow up in the kind of projects, you don't really have a choice because this is how it goes. Let's say there's always more than one gang, right? There can be three.

They can be four. They can be one. They can be two, whatever. In my projects, it was like three or four, right? So think about it. If you're a kid growing up in the project, you're a kid growing up in a project. projects, right? And there are three or four gangs that are in that projects, right? What do you think is going to happen to you if you don't join one? You're going to get your ass kick from all four,

right? So at least if you become part of something, then you have protection from the other things. So it's not something that you can say that you have a choice because you really don't have a choice, right? So, you know, you join a gang and you become part of, the gang becomes part of your family. Well, they become your family. They become you. And they become more important than your family. So that was kind of my situation.

Wow. So were a lot of your friends and a lot of people that you knew, they were all in gangs? Yeah. Yeah. Like all my friends. Like all my friends. I didn't have normal friends.

And anyone who was normal, I didn't like them. So I already, and then what happens, I already developed like just the hatred for people in just. general. Really? Yeah, as a kid, I just didn't like, I just, I was an angry kid.

So I was always looking for some fuel to piss me off, to do something. You know, I was really crazy and just not normal by any means. You were telling me that story about your mom and the bike, some kids stole your bike. Oh, yeah, yeah. I told you that story? Yeah, you told me that on the phone. Oh, my God, that's crazy. I don't tell most people that story.

Really? Yeah, so the fact that story is crazy. Actually, the only person has ever heard that story as a podcast or on any show ever. Really? So that's crazy. I tell your story. Wow. Today's my lucky day.

That's crazy. But yeah, so I remember when I think I can remember how young I was. I was definitely very young. And I had a bike and I was downstairs. And some kid took my bike. Like, he told me, let him ride it. I let him ride it. The kid wouldn't give it back.

And I went upstairs crying. And my mom. How old were you? I don't. I want to say, I want to say 10. Let's just say it. It's got to be 10. It's got to be really young.

Because by 13, I would have just like, it wouldn't have been good. But, yeah, it had to be like 9, 9 or 10. And I came upstairs crying. And my mom told me, she says, listen, if you don't go back downstairs and get that bike, I'm going to kick your ass all over this place. And I was like, whoa. And my mom was no joke. Like my mom would hurt you, for real.

So I was more scared of my mom. I went downstairs. The kid, and the kid's still there, and, like, literally punched him in the face. And he started crying. They took my bike, went back upstairs. And then my mom said, good job. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

Wow. But this is the same mom who also said, hey, you know, you shouldn't be out there fighting. Well, I mean, that was probably good for you in a way to do that. I mean, that was a pretty good lesson she taught you, even though, I was a really young age. Especially living in that part, in that kind of town. You know what I mean? In New York. Yeah.

You got to be tough when you're young to be able to survive and be able to make it, right? Yeah, you do, you do, you do. I mean, if you're not, then people, people will try to take advantage of you. Right. You know, people judge you a lot just by the way your face looks or by the way your demeanor is. So there's a lot of times you'll see people walking around with this face like, you know, like this. but that might not even be really

that might not be their heart that might not even be where they're at but a lot of times they know that if they're not like that then people are going to say oh yo you know what yeah that dude's soft yo let's get them you know something like that so a lot of people walk around you know

and try to be like yo I'm hard I'm hard I'm hard I'm hard I've got into some crazy some crazy just crazy stuff in terms of that kind of thing where a particular individual, any of them, a particular individual was trying to be hard and put a gun to my face, and I slapped the shit out of them,

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It was crazy. It happened in the club and he, he, it's a long story. Sorry, had to do with a girl and him talking nonsense. I was with my boys. And, you know, and another thing, when you're with your gang, you, you, you feel like Superman. It doesn't matter. Like, you're all powerful and, and this, this, this, uh, feeling because your boys got your back. And, I can't explain it, but it's just such a powerful feeling.

And this, this kid put a gun to my face, was talking shit about, in a nightclub. Outside, outside nightclub. about his girl and whatever, whatever. And I just got pissed off. I just fucking backslacked him like, as hard as I can. And he dropped the gun on the floor. And then I picked it up and guess what? He had no fucking bullets in it.

So he's walking around with a gun with no bullets, right? Zero bullets. And I've encountered a lot of, I've accounted a lot of that kind of stuff in my life where, where, you know, people try to present themselves as something that they're not. I mean, it's happened another time, too, when I was with one of my closest friends who was in my gang, and the kid came up to us.

You know, we were walking, the kid's looking at us, and we just looked at them. Then they walked away, and then they started coming back. I told him, boy, yo, we're going to have to fight right now because these motherfuckers coming back. They started coming back towards us, and all it was was, oh, why are you looking at us?

How do you know we're looking at you if you're not looking at us? You know, some real dumbness. And then the kid was just talking, And then the kid pulled out a gun. And, you know, one of his friends, at the time I had this name called Tragedy. Like, that was my gang name, Tragedy. They called you Tragedy? Why they call you that?

Because if you mess with me, it was going to be a tragedy for you. But that was my name. It was tragedy. So, so, and then one of the kids were like, yo, I think tragedy knows your brother. Because this kid's brother was a gangster and his brother was in jail. And then it so happened that they figured out that, we knew each other and then the kid

kind of like said alright whatever and he left it alone but I wasn't going to leave it alone because this motherfucker just pulled a gun on me so a few days later I was with my boy and we

this is during high school and we saw him and my boy was like yo that's the kid from the day right there so I was like worried so I got my other two boys and we went and followed him and he went into a store

and I went into the store and I someone says yo yo yo remember me Yo, let's talk. I want to talk to you, right? And I wasn't going to do nothing to him, but I just wanted to make a point. I was always about making a point. So he didn't want to come out the store.

And I was like, no, just come out. I said, don't worry. No one's packing anything. He was just want to talk to you. Just come out. Just come out. So he finally came out of the store. And I was like, yo, you remember the other day you put a gun to my face?

I said, yo, if you put a gun to somebody's face, then you better use it. I said, don't put a gun to somebody's face. And then don't use that shit. Because right now, I could just end your life right now if I wanted to, right? So I told him, I says, you know, I got respect for your brother. But what you want to do? You want to keep this or you want to end this?

How you want to do it? And then he just chose to just squash it. So we squashed it. But, you know, like I said, there's a lot of, there's a lot of kind of those kind of things going around where people, you know, want to be that gangster. But they're not really that gangster. Yeah. Was there, I mean, was there a lot of gun violence being involved with those gangs? You see a lot of people getting shot all the time.

Like, I've had friends who's gotten shot in front of me. You know, I've gotten graced twice. Gotten what? Grazed, grazed. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Like in a shootout? Like, well, just running.

People shooting at you, you know. Yeah, because, you know, a lot of times in the projects or even around surrounding areas, if someone's got beef with you, you don't know when they're coming. So when you ever hear the terms about having eyes behind your head, right? You don't know when they're coming. You don't know how people are coming for you.

And you don't know who. Sometimes you don't know who. A lot of times, you know, you'll see people just run up on someone. If you watch any of this stuff, you see on the news, right? The person didn't call them and say, yo, I'm going to come get you at 4 o'clock.

No, nobody says that. It just go. And if you happen to be there, you don't even know the guy runs up on you and starts shooting at you. Now, fun fact, most people who have guns can't shoot. This is a, this is a huge, it's a fact. Most people who have guns illegally cannot shoot. Now, it doesn't mean you guys got to come try to shoot me now to prove a point.

But you know, but you know what I'm talking about? Most people, they, because, you know, in order to shoot a gun properly, you have to take training to do it. Right. Right. I mean, this is not shooting a gun properly, right? It's not. It's just not.

And most people miss. Point blank range. Like, point, like, most people shoot you here and the kickback and they'll miss. So, yeah. Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy. But isn't it true that most people that are in gangs that own guns?

I mean, they're not, I mean, people in gangs, they're not necessarily killers. Like, they're not just trying to go out and kill people. No. They're doing it to protect themselves for the most part, right? Yeah, the most part of it is just trying to protect what's yours, you know, and not letting someone else come in and try to step in and take what's yours, you know. By all means necessary, you want to protect what's yours. Yeah, it's pretty much.

I mean, it's not that often that someone's trying to, like, put out a hit on somebody. No. For, like Gucci Man, you know, people running up on him when he's with two girls trying to kill him and then he ends up killing both of them. Yeah, see. I wonder who trained him how to shoot. He obviously knew how to shoot. I know, right?

Yeah, it's, I mean, things like that, that's more of a deeper level, right? A lot of it's mostly bullshit. It's usually a lot, just a lot of bullshit. Like, this dude's been talking trash. You know, it's, I mean, when I was younger, I mean, someone talked trashed about me. I mean, that was a serious thing.

I don't care. I'm like, whatever. But when I was younger, it was, it was all about saving face, right? And if you didn't do anything, you had the pressure of your people saying, yo, you don't let that nigger talk about you like that? Yeah, you don't let me talk about you like that? For real. Now, guess what?

You look soft. And you don't want to look soft in front of your boys, right? So a lot of people go out and do stuff, not because they really want to do it, but because they know that if they don't do it, then. They're going to look like a pussy. Exactly, exactly. And yeah, and you don't want that. Because then your own boys turn on you.

So, yeah. Damn, man. It's crazy. What a crazy way to grow up, man. Yeah, it's nuts, it's nuts. What's the craziest shit you saw? Damn, let me see. Crazy.

Anything that really fucking stuck with you that you couldn't get delete out of your mind? Well, that was when my boy got shot. My boy got shot next to me. And that was pretty, And that was more like we were hanging out like in the front of our projects and some idiot rolls by in the car and starts shooting. And we thought no one got hit, but he got hit. And that shit sucked.

I mean, he didn't die, but I mean, it was pretty serious. Really? Yeah, yeah. What did you? Why did those guys shoot? Even until today, we don't even know who it was. They just came by, rolled by, and they said, fucking. It's blah blah.

Yeah. God damn, man. So we don't even know, man. But yeah, man, but shit like that is just, it's crazy, man. Now I'm thinking back about it and just, like, thinking about it. Yeah, it could have been me. Right. Like, you know, the bullets, bullets don't know names.

They don't know people, color, race. They don't care. You know, they just shoot. And yeah. And even till today, I don't even know. I don't even know. I have no idea of who it was. It was just real quick.

And I don't know, maybe they were trying to hit him. Like, and I'll never know. So is ping pong what ended up getting you out of this neighborhood? Yeah. And how did you get introduced to ping pong? So the whole ping pong thing is. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Should I call it table tennis? No, I like the word ping pong, man. Okay. So a lot of the pro table tennis players, they hate the word ping pong. But why do they hate it? Oh, because they say ping pong is what you do in the basement, right? But my counter to that is number one, the best people in the world that play this sport that destroy everyone are Chinese. Chinese say ping pong, right?

I've never heard table tennis. So I think that just solidifies my argument right there. Yeah, totally does. But yeah, so I hated ping pong, actually. Like, growing up in school, in high school, we had a ping, there was like a ping pong club in the lunchroom. So I remember I was playing basketball, football. I played tennis, play volleyball, wrestling.

And I remember I would come through the lunchroom and see these kids playing ping pong. And I used to make fun at them. And I'm like, oh, man. Fucking nerds. It's so crazy. Look at these kids with short shorts and a stick. I was like, oh, my God, what is this?

Right? So I hated this sport, right? And so during the offseason of my sports, I started shooting pool. I got into pool. I like pool a lot. And I went to a billiards hall, I don't billiards hall, a billiard store. And I had bought a pool stick, right, for a little bit of money. And then I went back a week later and then stole another one.

So I switched a pool stick out for another pool stick, right? And so now I had this really nice. A nice pool stick, which gave me the idea that I was good at pool, and I really wasn't. I was okay. I was okay. And I got hustled for some money at a pool hole, money that I really didn't have. But, you know, I was always mad at my wife. I lost a bet.

Pay up. So I lost the bet, and I got a little pissed off, and I took the pool stick, and I hit it on the pool table, and it cracked. Like, the pool stick just cracked. So I was even more angry. And then I turned around, I look, and I see some Asian kids. playing ping pong right to the pool I had a ping pong table right so I look over there and I don't know I think I think I was more being bully I was probably being a bully because I don't think I really wanted to play ping pong yeah I went over there and I was like hey I want to get a hit I didn't even ask I was like I want to

get a hit and the guy was like you play I say no I don't play this and he gave me the paddle and then out of anger I had played tennis also so so I knew how to hold it somewhat right out of anger it was more me just trying to lash out at the ball because I broke my pool stick and the ball went on the table the guy goes oh man wow you play and I was like no I don't play this he was like yo you should go check out this club there's there's a club downtown I mean in midtown Manhattan you should go check it out it's a ping pong club and I was like there's a ping pong club what do you mean there's a place where people go and play this like I was couldn't believe it he was like yeah it is so I was like really so I wanted to go check it out because I just wanted to go check it out because I just wanted to

See, I couldn't believe that there was a place where pro ping pong players played. So, so, and, you know, I was an athlete, right? So I played every sport. So I was like, there's pros that play this? No way, it's impossible. So I go down, I go check it out, and I go inside this pool hall, right? And huge pool hall. And then it's like, I think it was like six tables.

And people were playing like, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb. And I was like, whoa, this is crazy. I was like, whoa, this is, this is nuts. This is some next level stuff. So I tried to get to, I wanted to play right away, right? Because I'm a seasoned athlete. I want to play. Right.

Nobody would play with me. They were like, oh, my, I'm tired. Oh, I got to go somewhere. And they would play with someone else. And then I would get so tight. And all I kept thinking in my mind was like, these motherfuckers don't know me, man. I would shoot up this whole place. I was so tight.

I was like, yo, what the? So I would just keep going. So I'm a kind of person I like to go. where people don't want me. If you don't want me there, I will be there. Right in your face. Like, I'm like, I tell you a really funny, just a really quick side story off of that,

which I think is really funny. So it's like the new app, as you know, is Clubhouse, right? Yeah. And there's a particular person that I really can't stand. I really can't stand this person, right? But this person's in my contacts, right? A friend of yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah, a friend of mine.

I really don't. I don't. it's her. And I really don't like her at all. Like, really despise her. Wow. So she's just like,

she was really disrespectful or something that was trying to help her with sponsorship stuff. And she thought she knew everything. And you see, obviously still didn't get sponsored because she didn't listen. But she was really rude

about the way she went about it. And I told us, listen, you're being really disrespectful. You asked me for help and I helped you, but you're being disrespectful. And then she got to all this.

I said, listen, I ain't got time for your dumbass. So I just stopped talking to him. Yeah. So a month ago, I get a request. So, you know, in Clubhouse, if people don't have invites, what happens is the app will find contacts and say, hey, this person's on the waiting list for Clubhouse, right? And then you can then invite them to Clubhouse without sending them an actual invite.

So it's a free invite to invite them. Now, whenever you invite someone a clubhouse, your name is at the bottom of their profile forever. That's how it works. Really? Yeah. So this person that I really hate, it has her name, her profile, and it says, nominated by Wally Green. So the rest of her life, as long as she has a clubhouse, as long as she has that phone with that number and clubhouse, my name is always. Right there.

And I did it on purpose. So that make you feel good seeing that? Yeah. Gotcha, bitch. Gotcha. Yeah, exactly. But yeah. So you got to that, you got to a table tennis club or something like that.

So I went to the club. And no one wanted to fuck with you. No one wanted to play a game with you. No one, no one. Everyone was like being an ass. And eventually some old guys. Were they all Asian dudes? No, actually, actually there were no Asian dudes.

Actually, when I went there, there were actually no, there was not one. an Asian dude playing there. Really? None, none. They were all from the Caribbean. If I remember, everyone was from the Caribbean. Yep, pretty much everyone's from the Caribbean.

Yeah. I think there's... Is ping pong big in the Caribbean? Caribbean, Africa. Not really. Bahamas? Like Guyana. Okay.

So there was a lot of Guyanese people playing. Jamaican people. There's some Africans. So it was more... There were not one Chinese person there. If there was, it may be one. Was it kind of in the hood?

No, no, no, no, no. Oh, you said midtown? Midtown, yeah. And so eventually some old guy came and started playing with me sometimes. Really cool guy. And he would destroy me like 11, like 21, maybe 4 or 3 or 2. Now, I'm an athlete. And this old dude who's like 60 is like destroying me at ping pong.

So I used to get so angry. I got so angry. And then, but he, he, he. can and play all the time. So a lot of times I was just sitting in. And I really wanted to play now because I was like, this freaking guy beat me. There's no way. So this, this, this dude came in, and I think maybe it was his first time at the club and he saw me sit in and he came into and he goes, hey, do you have a partner? And I was like, nah, not, not really. And he goes, if you play with me like two or three times a week, I can pay $20. And I was like, what, $20?

So for me, that was a hustle with $20, wait a minute, you know, just a, just a play ping pong because I could hit you know I'm an athlete I can play any sport doesn't matter so I was like all right so I would play with this guy um you know maybe two times a week three times a week and he paid me $20 right and then uh we'd talk a little bit you know he would ask me about my family and I was like and I would tell him about my gang and stuff like that and you know we we became chill right and then uh but for him um it was more like TV right Because, like, if you don't know anyone who's ever lived that kind of life or been in those kind of situations, then it's TV. It's a TV show, right?

I mean, most people have never been around guns or gangs or been shot at or, you know, that kind of thing. So, but they've seen it on TV or in the movie, right? So when I was telling him stuff, he was more or less thinking this was like TV. So he wasn't taking me to see. Weren't you worried that he might be a cop? Nah, because we can tell cops immediately. It's very, it's very easy. Yeah?

Oh, yeah. How? It's, I can't explain to you. Like when you grow up, when you grow up in the projects for a long time, you know, like you can see. It's, you know, the problem with undercover cops, and I'm not talking bad about about cops now, so don't come looking for me. I got to put out, what is called? Disclaimer, alert.

Disclaimer alert. Yeah, but the problem with undercover cops, and this can help you guys, is that they try too hard. They just try too hard, and they stand out. And the thing is, most people, now, now it's changing. Now, in these days, it's changing a lot because I had to do, jury duty a few months ago

and I had not the normal jury duty I forgot which one that's called but what we did was what we chose whether cases got indicted or not so this is a very different than the normal jury duty and these undercover cops were good

they were really good yeah like they had this hot chick she was like super hot Like, there's no way I would have knew she was a cop. Oh, yeah. No way. That's adding a whole new dynamic to it. She was super hot, looked like about 20.

And when I was listening to her, like, she was in this major drug dealer's apartment alone. Like, the dude left her there. Like, yeah, so now it's different. But back then, they just tried so hard to blend in that you could see that, yeah, that guy's a cop. What kind of shit were you doing for money? Like, what were you doing for work? What were you doing? I didn't have money

I was broke man So that's what You didn't have to make money Like in the gang You guys didn't do anything I never I never got into the Like the drug thing

And the selling stuff Never? No never Really? I never even I never even did drugs back then They let you be in the gang Without doing any of that stuff

Because I fight Oh Because you were a fighter You know if you You just fuck people up And they wanted to keep you around If people had beef I wasn't afraid to bust off

Like, you know, let's do it. So, but I never, I never got into that side, right? And with the drug stuff, like, I never, for some reason I just never, I mean, I didn't even drink alcohol until like. What about like jacking cars or anything? Oh, yeah. Everybody. I got caught once for that shit. That, that shit sucked.

What do you mean? You got caught? How'd you get caught? So, so me and my friend, we jacked the car that that was not, so our project was here. It was in another complex, but it wasn't the projects. And my friend talked me into it. I didn't know nothing about doing this shit. And actually, I didn't even jack the car.

I was just with him as a support. Moral support? Moral support. Right? But I was waiting up. He was trying to teach me, like he, you know, the old school way, you know, break the top part. Like, he told me that, you know, break the back. No, every car used to have the little back window.

break the back window, get into the car. So we got caught, man. And how, oh, shit. That was not... What kind of car was it? It was, what do you call it? What is that? What is it?

What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? A Hyundai? Hyundai. A Hyundai? Hyundai.

Hyundai. Yeah. It was a Hyundai. And I remember, man, because it was so close to my fucking house, man. And we got arrested and then my mom fucking got called on that shit. And that was where I was more worried about, like, fucking them call. And I knew they were going to do because I was a mind. minor. He actually wasn't a minor.

Okay. So he actually got arrested. How old were you at the time? I think at the time I was like 14. Damn. Yeah. But he was, I think, maybe 19. So he got arrested. I remember he had got arrested. And then they had to call my parents. And my mom came and stepfather and there was fucking disaster from there.

But that was the one and only time that. The one and only time? One and only time. Yeah. After that shit, I was like, fuck that, man. It's too much work. So what happened after you started hanging out with this dude in the pool hall? He's paying you $20 every time he played with him. So the $20 was a hustle for me. So, you know, it was good.

It was how I could eat. I got $20 now, you know. Every day, every week. What was it? It was like maybe two or three times a week. So I was getting like $60 a week, man, to play fucking ping pong. So, you know, I mean, what I did do a lot when I was young, I did a lot of stealing, like a lot of fun.

fucking stealing a lot. Like for people's houses or from where? Yo. What did you steal from? I never broken people's houses, but we would jack people up on the train. Oh, raw people, yeah. Like, we go on a train maybe like five or six of us deep on the train, and there'll be someone sitting down.

And, you know, if five people come around, people can't see really what's going on until it's too late. So that I did a lot. And then just stealing shit from the stores and stuff like that, to see how much what's the most expensive thing we could get out of the store like that but yeah but anyway like would you get shit just to keep it or would you sell it to make to make money sell it sell it sell it keep it but mostly sell it you know to make some money and stuff like that um but yeah so this this guy you know he he he's paying me this $20 and uh like i said before he really

didn't understand how serious what I was into for him. I get the feeling for him. It was like TV and he just kind of like, yeah, yeah, whatever. So, um, one... You were entertaining him. One day I went to the club to go meet him, and I had a 22 in my bag, and it kind of like fell out of the bag,

and, uh, right in front of him, which really sucked. And then he looked at, he looked at it, then he looked at me, and the look on his face was just weird, man. It was weird. It was just like, I think everything that I should have been talking about, I just came, hit him right there.

And then he was like, and then before he said anything, I picked it out, I was like, I got to go. Because at that point, then I was a little worried because, you know, you don't know.

Maybe he'd freak out and call the police. You don't know. And I don't want to stay around. I never stay around to find out what goes on. So I picked it out and said, yo, I'm out. And I just left. And the first thing I thought about was like, yo, there goes my $20.

I was like, yo, $20 hustle is done for sure. Then the guy, yep, that's it. But I was going to say, you were talking to him about doing all this stuff. I mean, he knew that you were, you know, gun violence was in your life. He didn't, you didn't stop to think like, you know, maybe this guy understands this. You know, most times, most times if people's never been in a situation, how can someone understand a 13-year-old kid could have guns, right? Yeah, sure I mean.

If you've never been in a situation, you've never been around kids that have that mentality, then there's no way that you can understand it. Right. But if you look at history in some countries, kids are like 12, right? 10, 9, right? And they're been stolen and put in wars

at 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, right? With big with I never had no big guns Like these kids walking around with big guns Right yeah Like automatic rifle Yeah so so it's like if If you don't know anyone in that Lifestyle then it's very hard to comprehend

You know for him he was probably saying Uh maybe he's having some problems But it's not that serious I think one of the stats I read about New York's gun violence Was that or like the murder The gun murders or the gun murders Or the gun crimes that happened in New York It's like 100% male

under the age of 18. Yeah. You know why, right? You know why? Because... I could be wrong, but I think it's pretty close to that. You might be right.

And I'll tell you why. When you're young, you don't care. When you're young, you don't care. Like, for example... Plus, you're stupid when you're young. Yeah. You know, we're all fucking idiots

when we're that young. Right, right. We don't know anything. And then, you know, you think at a young age, like, if I shoot someone, someone, you really don't understand how it can affect the rest of your life. You don't think about that.

When you're young, you only think about that right now, this minute, this instant. No, no kid says, well, you know what, if I shoot this guy today and if I get caught next week, then maybe 10, nobody thinks like that. It's the adrenaline, like, what, you mess with me? And then eventually, at the end, then you realize like, oh, shit. And it's the words of every kid. What the fuck did I just do when you realize that it's real now? And now you're facing 15 years and you're only 12 or 10 or 13 or 14, whatever. And now you face 15 years.

The first thing is in your head is what did I fucking do? Right? Yeah. Why do you think it's like that? I don't know, man. I mean, do you think guns are the problem? I'll just have this conversation with somebody the other day about

the gun problem and a lot of people think that if you try to put some sort of crazy restriction on guns or make it illegal to own guns that it's somehow going to solve the crime in the inner cities. I don't think so because

guns are illegal. They're technically illegal. People will find the way to get them. I think... By and large they own them illegally. Yeah. I think I think if they want to solve the problem with guns, they need to make the law a lot tougher. Like, if you kill someone, you get life.

Like, never come out, right? I mean, think about it. If you're a kid and you shoot someone, right, and you kill that person, maybe you do maybe 15 years. But still, if you're a kid, At 15, you come out at 30. You're still a young dude. You did lose a lot of time, but you still can come out.

So I think if they made rules where, like, if you kill someone, you're doing life, and you're never coming out, ever. There is no parole for it. Then I think maybe people will think twice. Or what about if there was like a more obvious, clearer path for young kids in those cities to earn like a substantial income or to make good money and not have to fall back on crime. I mean, I mean, that too. It's like we're, you know, a lot of people, I mean, correct if I'm wrong, but when you're coming up,

you don't have many options. Like you got gangs, you got whatever. But if you had like, okay, I had the option of a gang or I could go get this job and make a pretty good fucking living. Right. To support myself. Right. I'm sure a lot more people would choose that.

Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. But that's just never the point. I mean, that's just never what happens. Yeah. It's always the latter. It's always, you know, the life is tough. There's no money. There's this, you know, everything is just really hard.

And then it's also the parents, right? Parents, yeah, that's a big part of it, huh? It's also the parents. Sometimes the parents don't know better. Yeah, right, exactly. So a lot of times, too, the parents may come from that life as well. Right. And now the kid sees it.

And, yeah. So, I mean, but you're right, though. If there's, it's, it's, the, the kids need more opportunity. Right. And they need to know that there's more than one way to reach a goal. I think now a lot of the kids that grow up in the projects, you know, it's, I want to be a rapper. I want to be a basketball star or, you know, things that, yeah, are possible, but are unlikely. Right.

I mean, it's, it's just a fact. If everyone could be a basketball star and a rapper, then it would be no problems, right? But I think that they need to get more opportunity. They need to have their mind opened up to different things around the world. Not just, like for me, it was just my projects. I didn't know anything about the war. I didn't know anything about other boroughs. I only knew my projects.

So I think that would definitely help, though. So after you dropped your gun in front of this guy and you took off, what happened? Like, you obviously stayed, I mean, you obviously kept playing ping pong. I, no, actually, my ping pong was going to end then. Oh, yeah? You had no plan to do it again? No, zero. Because you didn't really care for it.

No, and plus I was not going to go back there. Right. I'm going to go back there. You're crazy? I don't know who else saw that. So after two days later, the guy calls me and says, hey, are we still playing? And I was like, what? So then I was a little worried in the beginning

But then it was $20 The money overrules the worry And you see that all the time With a lot of like drug dealers You know stop right there But nah you know what I'm gonna go get that one more because I need that money And then boom you get caught

Yeah So I was like you know $20 you know $20 is worth the risk It's worth the risk let's go So I went and I played with the guy And the thing that was very interesting He never gave me a let You know, I never got a lecture from this dude.

He never said, like, yo, what are you doing? You're going to ruin your life. You shouldn't do that because then I would have just freaking just bounced. And I was like, y'all didn't hear you. But he never ever said anything like, almost like it is weird. It was almost like it didn't happen. He never talked about it. He never mentioned anything.

He never said. And you were afraid that he was going to bring it up. I was always afraid he was going to bring it up. I was waiting for him to bring it up. Right. I was waiting, but it never came. He never said. He just played with me.

And then he says, hey, I want to invite you to my house. I was like, what? And so he, yeah, exactly. I was like, who's this guy talking about? So he had a house near Hunter Mountain, right? And he had an apartment in the city. And so he wanted to bring me to Hunter Mountain. I was like, you fucking guy would have to bring me to a mountain.

That was going on to the mountains is wrong with this dude, man. So I was like, oh, man, this is crazy. So I was like, all right, whatever, you know, I'm going to go check it out. He says his family lives there. So I went up there and met his family. And it's kind of weird, too, because I don't know if he was trying to give me a sense of what family is. Because why would you bring the kid who just dropped the gun in front of you to your family's house in the woods? Like, what was wrong with you?

How far away was it from the city? Hunter's like two and a half hours from... Damn. From the yard. And his house is in the woods. It's legit in the woods. The woods. Like camping.

Like, I was a little bit scared, man, when, when, when, when, when they would all sleep, because I'm up, I'm up. And I'm looking now and you can't see shit. It's black. And you're used to the city. And I was used to the city. It's black. No noise.

Maybe you see a bear. And I was like, it's crazy, man. And so, yeah. What was the house like? Was it big? Huge. Huge. But, but his.

So the guy had money. Yeah, a lot of money. But they lived a Quaker. I don't know if it's. Quaker lifestyle. Like, they had no TV. They had no sugar.

So no cookies, no candy, no nothing. Just, yeah, it was very strange. Very, very strange. But, uh... What was this dude's ethnicity? What was he from? Uh, I think you,

I remember he was Israeli. Israeli guy. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But, um, it's just weird, man. And then, like, you know, he comes to me and says, hey, um, I had, went there,

and I went there and I went, went there again and then and then became fun like you know it felt like a family i was playing with his kids and the wife and he had a ping pong table in his house okay right and i was just cool so so um then he says hey um i see that you're interested in ping pong and i really want to help you so i want to pay for you to go to germany and i was like now the only thing i knew about germany was hitler so i was like i was like this is just getting worse and worse as it goes along germany and But still, I was always a person that I jumped on opportunity, right? It didn't matter.

It was good or bad. If it was an opportunity, I'm taking it, right? Because I never know what's going to go. It's different. Germany, it's a different country. Yeah. Whoa, it was crazy. And you were how old?

At the time, I was, let me see, when he said, the Germany, 14, 16, 18. Okay. Yeah, so I was like, whoa, man, really? So, yeah, man, the dude made it happen. He had a connection. And I didn't know any of this. I didn't know he had a connection to all this stuff. He never told me any of this stuff.

And so he had a connection with a sports school in Germany in Hanover, the town is called Hanover. And in that school is where all the top athletes of different sports live. Right. So their curriculum is mostly their sport. And then the academics is secondary. So this is like the top level. So I went there and I lived with these kids for like,

Two months and learned ping pong. And that's how I started. That's really fucking cool how they make the people that are really good at their sports The primary thing. Primary thing. And academic secondary. Yeah. When in America,

they pretend like it's the other way around. Exactly. They pretend here like academics comes first. But really. We know the real deal. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Which is stupid that we do that. It's crazy. It's crazy. Because like, you know, like all these kids, they're like the top in their city. Whether it was a table tennis or. or tennis or soccer, they were the top in their city. So they all go to the school.

They all live together in this school. They all practice their sports. They all eat together. You know, it was really interesting. What kind of different sports were they there? So if I remember correctly, there was table tennis. I think there was basketball. There was football, soccer, not soccer.

And I think there was something else. Oh, I think there was like a, like, handball, but not the handball on the wall. There's a different kind of handball that you throw into the net. So it's called handball, and it's a mixture between, I do not explain it, it's a mixture between, I don't know, basketball and dodgeball. I don't know. It's a really, I played it once, but it's a really fun sport.

So it's, so there's a net on both sides. So picture like a net, a soccer net, but not as big as a soccer net. that. Okay. Much smaller, right? And you hold the ball. What's the ball? How big is the ball?

Like a basketball? Like a volleyball. A volleyball. And so you run around, you pass it, you pass it. And then there are lines that you can't pass. Yeah. And you have to throw the ball into the net. It's called handball.

It's a European sport, but it's pretty cool. So, and they had that sport. So all these kids will come and, you know, we all live together. And, yeah, it was pretty crazy. for me it was difficult in the first the first month was really hard for me because like I said before I was an angry kid so I didn't like anybody or I didn't want to like anyone right I wanted to keep that you know you want to keep that hard like yeah you know I'm a gangster don't come near me you want to keep that

that that that that hard face and the problem was everybody was just being so nice to me No one was giving me No one was giving me that that fuel No one everyone was like oh my god You're from America Whoa They wanted to get to know you Yeah they wanted to get to know me

They were really nice and I didn't like that Like I hate you're used to You're not used to letting your guard down No no no and I didn't want to And they just kept And they just kept coming So so there's a saying It's called

Killing you with kindness This is a real legit thing Like I got killed with kindness Because they just kept coming They just kept coming And nobody would give me Even when I got angry, they would say, oh, it's okay, man. Don't want.

And I didn't know how to react because I never, normally in my situation, I get angry. The person gives me that fuel, makes me more angry. Wow. And now, but this was opposite. So for a while, man, I was, like really confused. I was mentally, like, like, just confused. I didn't know what that was going on. And then eventually, like, after like a month, I started to just.

talk to myself and figure like, yo, why are you angry? You're not in Brooklyn. You're not in a gang. You're totally far from your country. You're in a totally different country where people genuinely want to be your friend. Why are you angry? And I started to think about it. And then that was my first start of change.

Came right there. It came then. and then I started to open my eyes more and start to be more willing to let my guard down to be friends with people because the reason you don't want to let your guard down because you don't want you always think people going to take advantage of you.

So if you look weak, then people take advantage of you. Like I always tell people, don't mistake kindness for weakness, right? So that's the mentality that you have, that kindness equals weakness, right? So I didn't want to be kind because I didn't want to look weak. But it didn't matter if I looked weak or not in front of them because they weren't in that mindset, right?

So it took me a while to figure it out. And then when I did figure it out, then I started to change. And that was my change. And that started to be more open to having different friends. Then I made friends. I started to get along with them. And then I was like, yo, what the fuck was I doing all this time?

Yeah. So that was the start. Wow. So it's like your brain was getting rewired almost. Exactly. your whole life you've been used to living in the city living in Brooklyn you're always trying to protect yourself by keeping your guard up by being a tough guy right yeah yeah definitely but um it it was it was uh so how long were you at the school for so i was

two months there and then i went from there i went another month to a different part of um germany to play with some pros because uh this is this is way before you did any kind of competition yeah yeah it's before competition okay this is just my my learning. Right. And then I play with some pros. And the reason I play with the pros was because a year before, or maybe about a year before, I went to go see a competition to see what it looked like.

Where at? It was in, what was this competition? I think it was U.S. Open, and it might have been in Las Vegas. Okay. Maybe. No, it was not, maybe, maybe because of the guy. So the guy will help me.

So he took me to see a competition And there was Players there who were like the best In the world And they would say oh that guy is Waldner he's the number one player in the world And so like I frankly didn't care who these guys were

I just wanted I'll go up to and talk to them Like yo I hear you're number one Right they'll look at me like I'm stupid That's a rare that's a rare A trait that a lot of New Yorkers have Yeah yeah They can talk to anybody I got to anybody.

You're number one? You're like, yeah. So I met some people there, and they always said, if you ever in Germany and you want to play, you should let us know. So it just worked out. Like, holy shit, I'm in fucking Germany. I know some people. So I sent, you know, I contacted a friend. And I was like, yeah, I'm in German in Hanover.

And he was like, oh, you should come to Frankfurt. And I really had no more money left. Like, it was crazy. And I did. I went there. I went to Frankfurt and hung out with a friend who plays professional.

He played a German national team. And then I went to a... Then he brought me to a smaller city, which is called Grenzal. Actually, this town, most Germans don't even know this town. That's how small. It's really small.

What's it called? It's called Grinsau. Grenzal. So the town everyone would know is called Koblenz. Coblins is a big city. Everyone knows that. If you go up in the city, if you go up into the mountains, there's another town called Hurgenshausen.

Hurgenshausen is a smaller town. Then if you go within that town, it's another town called Grinsau. And it's a very, very, very small town. It's actually a table tennis town, which is crazy. Everyone who lives there either plays, loves, or likes table tennis. Wow. Yeah, everyone. So it was really cool for me to play there because.

What's that little town? It's called Grenzal. Grenzal. Like G-R-E-N-S-A-L? No, I think G-R-E-N-S-A-U. S-A-U. Gren-S-A-U. And it's a very interesting place because everyone there knows table tennis.

So for me it was really cool. Being a black dude from America who's going to practice with this team because everyone knew already. Everyone knew, oh, there's a black guy coming from America. Was that super rare for them? Yeah. There's no way. How many other black table tennis players?

Was there as none. At this time, zero. Wow. Yeah, and it's very rare for them, too, because this team was the best team in the world. So, for example, like, okay, let's take soccer. Like soccer, for example, is the best team in table tennis, as was Brazil to soccer. So they played Champions League, this team never lost. So the fact that some American black guy was coming to practice, everybody was like,

who's this dude? Is he good? And I sucked. I wasn't even good. I wasn't even good. So I went there to practice, and that's why I spent the rest of my time in Germany. Really had zero money.

Like, friends helped me out because the guys thing already ended, right? So this was something now that was pretty much on my own. Yeah, because that thing was already paid for. It was for a certain amount of time. And this was now me on my own. So instead of coming back to the States, yeah.

You just decided to. I decided to go. go to freaking to Grunsa. How did you hear about Grunzaw? Oh, because when I tell you that from the U.S. Open, the guy that I met said, he said that if I'm in Germany. So I met him,

and he brought me there. And it was cool. It was crazy, man, because it was like the best players in the fucking world on one team. And it was nuts. I watched them practice. And they would play with me a little bit. Of course, I wasn't that level. But the coach's son was good.

And I play a lot with the coach's son. He also trained with the team. He was an alternate for the team. So I played with him a lot. Okay. Because he was the closest one to what my level was after training at that school. Right. Because the other guys were top, top, top, top players in the world.

So, of course, I'm not that level. But they would still play with me, you know, because, you know, for them, it was interesting. Some black American kid, you know, practicing with them. And they're the best of the best of the best. Yeah. So I stayed there for about another month. And then I came back to America. What did you do when you came back?

And where did you go? Oh, when I came back, I was just so into ping pong now. I was like crazy about ping pong. So I started to find the ping pong clubs. Did you keep in touch with that dude? I kept in touch with the dude when I came back. But then I lost contact with him. like years later

there was some war in Israel some years ago long while ago and I lost contact with him because we made this film this documentary film that was really cool and we tried to find this guy

because it would have been such a good part of the documentary right you know showing him what I've become because of him so that would have been

a really good part of the documentary and we could not find him we found the school We found, we even found the coach. We found the coach. And we was trying to get information from the coach. But the coach says that they don't keep the records that far back. Wow.

Yeah, so, so we never found, we never found a guy, still can't find a guy. Did you ever try going back to his house? I won't remember where it's at. Oh, really? I mean, I know where Hunter Mountain is at. I mean, maybe, maybe, I don't know, maybe if I actually went there. Could you imagine if you shut up on his doorstep now? I would have to get off, I would have to get off the bus stop.

I remember when I went up there, take a bus, and I would get off the bus stop, and then I would walk. But, I mean, it would probably be really, really hard to do that. You just went there and filmed it. That would be crazy. That would be nuts. And then trying to find this guy's house. Yeah, I mean, the documentary, you could make a whole separate documentary,

just about trying to find him. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Just trying to find this fucker. You're right, you're right. All right, so you came back. You didn't keep in touch with him. Yeah, so what did you do? You were obsessed with it going everywhere.

I became obsessed. Like, really, like, it became, like, crack. I just wanted to play ping pong. You start hustling people? The hustling came way later, like, like, after I got better. But I just wanted to play a lot. I just wanted to play. So I started playing every tournament.

And it was really crazy because although I changed my thinking, the hood did not. come out of me. No. Oh, no. It probably never will. It actually came a lot. It came into ping pong a lot.

So I would be, so I got into a lot of altercations. Oh, shit. Oh, and ping pong. Yeah. People know me. Dude, I saw, I saw a video of you playing some guy. It was like a tournament or whatever. And like, at the end of the round, he just basically like tossed the ball over with me.

Like, you weren't ready for it. And you're like, are you fucking kidding me? Are you going to count that shit? Oh, man. Yeah. So that's actually recent. Oh, is it really? Yeah, that's not that long ago.

I mean, when I say recent, it's probably like four or five years ago. Okay. That, I know what that is. I remember exactly. That was me playing against Chinese national team. So I was playing against Chinese national team and the umpire and the umpire was being a dick. Like, really? Like, I actually won that point.

And he said I did it. And if you look at the camera, I served the ball. And he went. past him and he said that I lost the point and I just flipped out and I got angry and yeah so so but then he also like nonchalantly like tossed the ball over the net yeah yeah yeah

and I smashed it up into the air yeah yeah I got a lot you know it's funny that video I got a lot of haters from that video said oh yeah oh I don't know why this guy represents America he's such a bad he's such a bad uh uh uh uh influence on people blah blah and I'm like yo you guys are idiots, man. First of all, Yeah, they don't know. They don't know what happened.

And there's more to that video. Well, that motherfucker cheated, dude. Exactly. And there's more to that video, too. They also made a mistake, and they gave me a point that they should have gave to him. Oh, really? To the Chinese guy? And I said, no, that's not the score. And they said, no, it's the score. I said, no, it's not the score. And they said, it is the score. And I went, I took the guy's hands off the thing and changed the score myself. And the crowd started clapping. That's crazy, man.

I mean, I bet a lot. I mean, I don't know, but I'm sure in the sport of ping pong, a lot of people from China aren't used to, like, raising their voice and sticking up for themselves, you know? They're very, like, soft-spoken. No, no, no. I tell you another funny story about that. So, once I started playing pro, my first competition was, I had three.

Was it, let me see, the Chenjin G-1. Yeah, okay. So the first competition, pro competition I played, It was in Germany, right? German Open, and I got smoked, destroyed. By people that actually played with, got smoked. That was so nervous. Then, the next week, I was in Holland, in Rotterdam.

So I remember exactly. The first person I played was from Russia. Got smoked. Smoked, no chance. Second person I played was from England. Got smoked, no chance. The third person I played was from China. Right?

And I was playing this Chinese kid. And I remember, I will never forget his name. His name is Chen Junji. I can never forget this name. Chen Junji. Chen Junji. Because this, this moment is actually what defined me in table tennis, was this particular moment here. So I play this, I'm playing this Chinese kid.

He's smoking me. First game, I think it was 111. Fuck. Second game, 112. I don't even, I was getting killed. I was getting killed. Right? then my friend

my German friend when I tell you about we were always together so whenever I travel we were always together I'm always with this dude and I was teaching him some hood stuff right because he's very very German proper German

and I was like no man you gotta go boop boop boop you know no you got to say yo what's up man so I I taught him a lot of hood stuff like right so when I'm playing this dude it was 3-0 the guy's 3-0 right

my friend he's coaching me calls time out and he says come on Wally boop boop he said

poop like this right so so I said okay you know he wants me

to get pumped up right right trying to get you fired up I made a serve and it aced the Chinese

guy right and when it aced him I was like yeah baby that's it bro blah

yo the dude almost shit bad bad is this on video no I wish I had this on video

I wish I had it on video Yo, the dude. But I still have the article. I think I still have the article that they wrote about this. So the dude just, because he's never seen that, nobody's ever seen that. As matter of fact, nobody didn't even know who I was. Nobody's never seen this. I started bringing the gangster into ping pong.

I started getting real gangster with it, real gangster. Wow. Then I took a game off him, which is, it doesn't even make sense. Like, it's almost like some junior high school kid freaking taking a, game off LeBron in basketball, some junior high school kid. Like, no chance. It's negative. I take a game off this dude, right?

Then we played it again. Right. Actually, he was up to zero. Then we played it again. He won the next game. Very close. Then, that was a 3-3-1. It's four out of seven.

I won the next game. So I won the fifth game, which is crazy. And everybody's looking at because now I'm really pumped out. I'm like, that's it, baby. Take them down. Take them down. This boy's got no chance. I'm talking mad trash.

You were probably psyching him the fuck out. Yo, had him psyched out like crazy. You were fucking his head on. Then it was three, two, nine. So at this time, the scores go to 11. I mean, 11 points. So three, two, nine, six for me.

So I just need one more. I need one more, one more game. And it's three three against Chinese national team the best in the world. Right? So three, two, nine six. And I'm making noise.

This dude's shit in his pants the whole time. He's like scared to death. Because no one's never seen anyone be gangster with it. Right. Ping pong's more like, yeah. Cho! That's it. That's it.

Nobody gets crazy. I was getting crazy. Come on, baby. It was almost like I was playing football or basketball. That's hilarious. And it was 9-6, and then the stupid thing I did was believe that I could win. And that's where you get screwed up. What do you mean?

The stupid thing you did was. believe that you can win. I'm going to tell you. Because I started to believe I could win, I said, okay, let me calm down and finish this match. It was the wrong freaking thing to do. I should have just kept being crazy and kept being me, and maybe I would have beat him.

But because I calmed down, because I really believed I could win, when I really had no chance to beat this dude. But I started to believe I could win, then I calmed down, and I started to try to focus. And then the guy came back and won the match, right? And before there's one part I forgot to say. So when I made the score, when the score was nine, so what happened was the score was 9-6-3-2 for him.

And the coach called a time-out at 9-6, because if I win this game, it's 3-3, I think this dude's going to be more nervous in the last game. The coach, Chinese coach called timeout, and the Chinese could start yelling at him, right? And my German friend speaks Chinese. and what the coach was saying was like, I never saw this guy anywhere in my life

because nobody knew me. I never saw this guy. If you lose to this guy, you would never play this country again. Oh my God. But it's real. China does not messing around. If you lose to me, that's it.

Your career is finished. Fuck. And the guy came back and I lost 11.9. And it would another point. But also, I calmed down and I thought I could win when I really couldn't. And I lost. But, well, is it the fact that you thought you could win?

I mean, I think it might have been the fact that you were maybe overthinking it. Well, more that I wasn't giving him the respect that he should get, right? But that's the thing. You shouldn't give him his respect. Then you're going to. Yeah, you shouldn't. Right. But once you started to.

But once you start to give him the respect, you know, because now I'm saying, okay, I can beat this guy. that's that's before I didn't care right now I'm saying I can beat this guy okay focus focus you can win this match and I changed what I was doing yes working and then I lost and uh-huh but that was the start of everyone in the world knowing who I was every top player in the world knew this crazy guy from New York City who's yelling all over the place and everyone knew me and they wrote an article about what's more important. Skill or mental, right? Because I was beating them in the mental.

Because this guy obviously had the skill. Oh, yeah. I had no chance. Zero chance. Zero chance. But mentally, I got him. So, yeah. That's a pretty funny story that I remember.

Bro, that's incredible. So you started, like, create your own brand. Yeah. Like, you were like the Dennis Rodman of ping pong. Yes, yes, yes. Because, you know, as I was playing pro tour, like, like, like, I wasn't the best. all. I wasn't even close to the best. You know, and in the beginning,

I was getting killed by everyone. I was getting destroyed. Like, when I tell you, I was getting murdered, it was like, you know, why are you doing this? Right? And, um, but I love the sport so much. I just needed

to re-evaluate my goals. Like, my goals were totally wrong. My goals were like, ah, I'm going to be the best. I'm going to beat everyone. No, you're not. You started this sport at 18. You're not going to be the best. You got to have to have. have respect for the guy who started at three and five, right?

And how many of those guys are there? So the odds of you being the best are pretty much unlikely, right? You can be the best in America, maybe. You know, but in the world, it's not going to happen. So, so, so I started to evaluate the goals of how, what I'm going to do in this sport, because everybody's killing me. And then I just made smaller goals. I said, okay, you know what?

I'm not going to try to beat these guys anymore. I'm going to try to get five points every game. First, let me get five points one game. So I get five points. I can do that. Cool. All right. Let me get five points every game.

So even if I lose four zero, I get five points, right? And so it would be funny, right? Because everybody would watch me because, you know, I was that hip-hop gangster guy that plays ping pong. And everybody knew. Everybody watched my match. So they would see, right, this is funny, I would lose four zero. And I'll go, yeah, baby, that's it. They were wrong with this dude.

He just lost. But I didn't lose. I won. because in my mind I said I want to get five points and I made my five points every game. What is a point? How do you get one point? So whoever misses.

So if you make it miss you get a point. I get a point. Okay. So my thing was if I can get five points out of 11, I win. So let's explain the basic rules of it. So you play to 11. The first person with 11 points wins. And you play seven games.

Four out of seven in Pro Tour. So the best, the person who wins four out of seven wins. wins, yeah. And it's two serves apiece. And so, you know, before I was getting killed,

111, 112. So once I started getting five points, I said, okay, if I get, and I made myself believe this,

if you get five points in every game, you won this match. Really, I believed it. So I would get five points every game, I would lose 4-0,

and I'll go, yeah, baby, that's it. And people will look at me, it's wrong this fucking dude. Right. He just lost.

Right. I didn't lose. I won because I made a goal, Because you're competing against yourself. Exactly. So that's how I got better. I started competing against myself.

Okay, now I made five points. Okay, let me take one game out of four. If I take one game, I win. And I put it in my head, if I take one game, I win. And then, yeah, what's wrong with this? And then I started to notice that, like, the kind of character that I had was very interesting for media in the sport, because they never seen a sport.

They didn't see a ball. Hip-hop guy played ping pong. So I started getting all these interviews. and I would lose, and they would interview me and not the winner. And it was crazy. I was like, whoa, what's going on? To the point where sometimes they started giving me too many matches on the TV table. And I remember one time in China I complained about it.

I said, hey, can you not put me on the TV table? What's the TV table? So, for example, let's say in a pro tour, a pro tour can have anywhere from like eight to 12 tables. but not every table has a TV camera. So usually two tables will have. Table one and table two will always have that TV camera there. All the other matches may not have a TV camera. They may be filmed, but it wouldn't stream to TV.

Only these two tables. So a lot of players, they want to be on the TV table. I never wanted to be on the TV table. I really hated the TV table because I'm probably, One of the worst players in the pro tour. Why do I want to be on a TV table? I want to be in like the table that's like in the corner, you know. Oh, wait.

But the people wanted to see you. Yes. So I remember one time I was in China and I had two matches on a TV table, which is crazy. Pros, the pros people don't even get too matches on the TV. And this is in preliminary rounds. It's not even the main draw. And I told him, I said, listen, I just played on the TV table. Can you please take my next match all?

off the TV table. And this is something that every player wants. Every player wants to be on the TV table. I didn't want it. And I told him to say, and the Chinese guy goes, No, Wiley, no, you are good for TV. I was like, what?

I said, yo, getting killed on TV is not good for me. It's like, no, it's okay. Yeah, so, and then I realized, like, yo, people, people, they don't care about your skill, level, you know, I bought something different. I bought this coolness, you know. I bought this, this hip-hop style and, you know, this, this craziness to the sport. You were fascinating to them.

Yeah. Do you know what the majority of the audience who watches ping pong is, or back then what it was? I mean, what kind of people watch ping pong matches? What do you mean, what kind of people? I mean, like, well, because I don't know anybody who watches ping pong. Exactly. I mean, is it all Chinese people who are? No, no, no.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, anyone who plays. Okay. So, so, so, so that's it. What she makes me, it's, me, I'm trying to, like, dissect, you know, who the people were that were so interested in you and why, why. Oh, the actual, the actual people who are at the tournament. Okay. Like, the players. So the TV table, was it being broadcasted?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Like, in China, in China, in China, you'll, you'll walk by and you'll see it on TV. And everybody in China just loves, they love ping pong. Okay. I mean, now they love more basketball, but, but yeah, if you walk by, like, you'll just see it. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

So it was crazy, man. So you were like a Chinese celebrity. Yeah. And then I really, and then when I went to Japan was the same thing. And then everywhere I went, I just started noticing that they wanted to interview me, the guy who's losing. Yeah. What's going on? And then I realized, I said, I realized what my.

my goal or what I was supposed to do in this sport. I was supposed to make it cool. I wasn't supposed to be the best player in the world. I was supposed to make it cool. And that's what I did. Then once I realized that, I said, okay, then I started playing better because now I had less pressure. So I would go in there, you know, make these crazy points.

And they go, whoa, that's it, baby. Or if I was in China, you know, I play in China. And I'll go, child, which means, you know, like, Like the actual meaning means add fuel to the fire, but it means fight. But I know I would say it in China because Chinese would see a black dude say, and they were like, oh my God, who's that? And then even if I lost, it didn't matter, right? It didn't matter because I was cool.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and that's how my whole table tennis career worked out. I mean, that's how I started to get sponsored. I mean, even before I started playing the pro, I made a video game with Rockstar Games. So the name of the game is called Rockstar Presents Table Tennis. It's the only, look at his face. It's the only non-violent game that Rockstar has ever made.

What? Yeah, yeah. When did it come out? 2006-2007. It's the only game that Rockstar made that's non-violence. It's called Rockstar Presents Table Tennis. And the way I got- You got to pull that shit up, Aidan.

That's your cue, man. The way I got to make this game was that I was at a tournament, local tournament in Chinatown. And I was playing a kid from China who just came from China. And we were fighting out. And the kid was like, going to Cho. And I was like, that's it, baby. Come on.

Come on. He's going down. He's going. I was talking mad trash. And they were scouting, actually. They were Rockstar Games with scouting. And I know Rockstar Game because I'm a big fan of Grand Theft Auto. Right.

So they were scouting. And then they came up to me. And they said, hey, we love your energy. We love the character you put out. They were like, do you know Rockstar Games? Like, hell yeah, I know Rockstar Games. Crazy Grand Theft Auto. Yeah.

I play every one. And they were like, well, we want to make, we're interested in making a table tennis game. I was like, what? It's like, will you be interested? Hell yeah. I wasn't even thinking about money. I was like, take my money. I was like, yeah, for sure.

Definitely, definitely, definitely. So I made this game with them. The game won best sports game of the year. It beat Madden and it beat NBA live. What? Every game. It destroyed every game because it was just a fun game that you could, it was easy to play but hard to master. But it was an easy game

anyone can get up and play it. And so, and we marketed this game like all over the place. Like I was in Japan, like in this crazy apartment, having parties with different, like it would be one night, it would be hip-hop night or tech night,

and they would come to play the game and I would talk with them and sign autographs. No way. And that's how I started playing pro tour. So we skipped a lot of it, but that's how I started playing pro tour because after I told Rox,

I say, hey, listen, I want to play pro. So can you guys sponsor me? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, all right. So I came on with a plan of how much money I needed. Boom. Gave it to them.

And they agreed. They cut a check. Yep. And that's how I played. And that's how I played pro. Because you got to pay money to play all over the world. I went to every major country in the world to play on rock star money. Wow.

That's fucking dope, dude. Yeah. Yeah. What is this? Just screenshots from it? You can't find no video. Look at that. That is so cool.

There we go. I got the game in my house still. Fine, Wallet. Did they make you your own character? No. What? And you know what? And it's actually my fault.

I should have pushed for it. The reason why they didn't make my character is because they thought that I would charge to have me. But I wouldn't. I would let him do it for free. Because there's a black dude there. Yeah. It could have been me. They're probably based them off you, maybe.

Well, actually, every character is based off my motion. Oh, really? Every, every character. Did they dress you up in one of those suits? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No way. Motion capture suit? Yeah, yeah.

I wore that. And listen, it's one of the hardest things. Motion capture is insanely difficult. It is crazy. It is just nuts because you have to do every possible motion that's possible in a game that may not be possible in real life. So, for example, if I make a stroke, this works, this works. This is not something we do, but you have to do it anyway. Because you have to cover every possible spectrum because...

Even if it works or doesn't work. Yes, because of the video game. And then... Oh, shit, here's the video. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Oh, look at this. It's nuts. Damn, this game looks pretty sick.

Yeah, it is. For me, it's the most closest... Even until today, there's... Oh, you can tell it's rock star, too, just the way the art looks. It looks like that Grand Theft Auto feel to it. Really, really nuts. Damn, that's fucking cool. Yeah, so, I mean, it was really good time.

And because of them, I was able to play all over the world. That's so fucking cool, man. So the motion, how long did it take for you to do all that motion capture shit? That was a while. That was a while. It was really difficult because, like I said, you have to cover every, every possible movement has to be covered for the video game. So was somebody there like directing you? Yeah, yeah, they direct you.

It's really hard because, so, for example, let's say the movement, the movement, if you see, if you see. If you start like this, you have to end like this. Or you got to do it over. So if I start with this foot in front and this foot back, so let's say I need to go there. I go one through, boom. I got to come back. I got to make sure I end like this.

If I end like this, we got to do it over. So I have to go this way, boom, this way, boom, this way, boom, this way, boom. And then lunges, like making like you lunges. Yeah. You know, every possible thing you have to do it so they can record it. Yeah, so it was definitely not easy. How long did it take? I don't remember.

I don't remember. I don't remember. Maybe it was a week. I don't remember. But it was multiple shoots. Yeah. It was really hard. It was like physically hard. Wow.

You know, because you have to, like I said, you have to cover every possible motion. Yeah. So it was fun. And because of it, you know, I've got to play, you know, pro tour all over the world, man. I was watching a behind-the-scenes clip, a behind-the-scenes clip from the four. Gump movie when they were showing how Tom Hanks would play the do the ping pong scenes and he actually just had to like fake the movement the

movements and they like the CGI They CGIed the ball It's almost like the same thing with the Bruce Lee thing You ever seen the Bruce Lee thing? No You never seen the Bruce Lee thing? What thing? What thing? What do you want to see the Bruce Lee thing? What are you talking about? Tell him to pull it up. Pull up

Put Bruce Lee ping pong You never seen this? I don't think so I'm not going to say anything Oh shit. Watch this. I'm not going to anything we'll watch it i get now when i get questions i get thousands and thousands and thousands on questions on this video really every time watch when you see it yeah yeah this this watch this full screen it give me all get this audio thousands of questions on this every time this is the most question i get about this video what the fuck it's got to be fake it is but it's a really but it's a

That is pretty fucking. He's using num chucks. It's a really good TGI. Oh my God with a shaky camera. Holy shit. Oh my God. That's fucking amazing. Yo, it's nuts.

So what is this for? I don't know. I've seen this video. I get mail on this all the time. People always ask me. They're asking if it's real. Is it real? Yeah.

That's some really good. fucking CGI work. It's very good. Especially with the shaky camera. Look at. I mean, that shaky camera makes it look so legit.

Could you imagine? Dude, it's crazy. Now, now, now, here's the thing. A lot of people think it's real.

It's a commercial for a phone. Oh, there you go. A lot of people think it's real. But because I play, I know it's not real, right? Because a nunchuk

is a... It's circular. Circular. circular and there's no way he'd be able to hit that ball so precise. If it was flat, maybe it's possible, but it's totally impossible. And then if you look at the trajectory of how he hits, that ball would not go straight. It would actually go up. So I know this, but a lot of people don't.

Like, people have argued with me before and I'm like, listen to them. That they think it's real. Yeah, they think it's real. It's not real. That's a pretty fucking sick video. It's a good CGI. That is a really good CGI. Very, very good one.

Holy crap, bro. So fucking rock. Rockstar sponsors you to go all over the world. Now you're, now you're pro. You're rock star pro. They're paying you. I had rock star gear. I think I may still have one short left in the house.

I gave a lot of it away. Like as I was traveling through the world and going to these different countries, you know, one thing that you can give to fans is your shirt. Like giving a shirt with your name on it. Like fans want this stuff. Yeah. So I would give away my rock star shirts and give the... Hell yeah.

Stuff away to fans and stuff like that. So what happened when you turn pro? Did you start winning? No, I was still getting my ass kicked. You're still getting your acting, but you're just doing it because everyone loved you. But now it was more doing it because my goal was to make the sport popular

and make it cool. I went to make the sport cool. Because when I first came in, it wasn't cool. It definitely wasn't cool. It was just like, I don't know. I mean, it wasn't cool at all. Actually, it wasn't. It was like tennis was a long, long, long time ago.

before everyone cool came and played. It was like this quiet and you got to be very sportsmanlike and very quiet. Like golf? Yes, yes. It was extremely, it was very golf-like.

I mean, look what happened. Just was it not, it was like maybe two Olympics ago. One of the Chinese guys won and he had some problem with the coach. The coach liked a particular player. Right. And when that happens,

it makes it really intense. tense. He beat that particular player and he got such a sense of accomplishment, especially when the coach is against you and you beat the coach's favorite player in the Olympics, right? Now you're like, ah! So he did that. He went, ah! He ripped up his shirt, he kicked the barrier, and the batteries are made out of paper, right? It's no money lost. Do you know that they find him and took all his winnings away because of that because of that because he showed emotion so that's the problem with the sport they don't like emotion no he showed emotion and they they they like a chinese culture thing or is they think it's the sport no i think it's just sport really yeah because i mean

if if if if if if you look at chinese fighters they show emotion a lot of emotion but but i mean it was it was crazy and and and they were saying it's not sportsmen like chinese fighters do yeah like what what fighters specifically you ever see M.M.A fighters? Yeah, but which ones? I've never seen. I don't think I've ever seen a Chinese. Zhang Wei. Zhang Wili is the champion.

Is he really? I don't know fucking shit about it. Oh, Zhang Wili. She's a beast, man. Oh, really? Oh, my God. This girl's crazy.

I would never fight this girl. Ever. I'd run away from... I wouldn't even fight. The most I know about MMA is Jake Paul. That's not even fucking MMA. That's boxing, bro. That guy.

There you go. That says it all for me. That guy. That guy's a funny dude. You watched the fight, right? You were talking about it before we started. Oh my God, man, listen. That whole broadcast was just a shit show.

It's crazy. But, I mean, they did, for the first time doing it, I mean, didn't Jake Paul put that whole thing together? Yeah. For some kid, for some 25-year-old kid to put together, I mean, it's, he didn't do bad for his first time. Did you see he came out in the way in with a robot? That was fucking dope. That was crazy. I was like, who comes out with a...

And his walkout to the ring, he had a big robot. Yeah, the mascot. Yeah, but, yeah, he's, he's... I mean, he's definitely... I think, you know what? I think he knows what he's doing. Yeah, he totally knows what he's doing. I think he's doing this to make his name bigger.

Of course. He's smart. You know what? If you think about it, now I'm thinking about it, he's kind of doing what I was doing. He doesn't need to fight the best fighter. For what? Why fight the best fight when I can be knocking out these fools?

Yeah. And it looks good. I mean, think of the audience that he's bringing up. bringing to boxing. He's bringing this whole young new demographic, this whole demographic of kids that watch YouTube to boxing. And did you notice something? I bet you that's something that you didn't realize. He made that fight exactly the same time as Fight Night, which is UFC.

Did he really? Yep. There was a UFC fight the same time. The finals in that was at the same time. Because Dana White bet a million bucks that he'd lose? He don't like Dana White. Hell no, he doesn't like Dana White. Dana White doesn't like him.

That's why he did it. He put it. So when I was trying to watch it, I had my UFC fight on because I wanted to watch the Whitaker fight, which is huge, and Gastilum. And then I had his fight on the corner of the TV, trying to watch that at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah. So he's definitely smart. He's definitely, he definitely knows what he's doing. I don't think he's going to fight any real fighter who can strike because once he loses, That's it.

Who would be, who do you think would be a real fighter on his level that he could fight next? That he would, that would be a fair match. He should fight one of the girls, man. Seriously. He's not going to do that, bro. He should do that. That would be cool. That would be cool.

Like who is a legitimate, who do you think would be a legitimate contender for him? Who's a boxer? Who do you think, who do you? Well, boxing? I don't know any boxers. You don't know any boxes? I just know mostly, though. You know his brother's going to fight Floyd Mayweather?

Yeah. He's going to get, but, you know, see, I wouldn't, I would fight Floyd. Mayweather. Because he's a little guy? Well, no, because I know Flood Mayweather's not going to freaking try to put my head. He's not going to kill you. He's not going to put my teeth through my, you know, Floyd Mayweather, you saw he did his last fight. Yeah. Did you see what he did to the Japanese dude in Japan? You ever seen that one? No. Oh, that one's even more funny. That was even more funny. He can't just,

he's the, he's the best defensive boxer, right? That's what his thing is. He drags you into deep water until you run out of gas. And plus he'll toy with you. He's not going to try to, he's not going to try to hurt you. I I mean, he did to Connor McGregor, too. Kind of, like, toyed with him a little bit. You know, defense, defense hit him a little bit. So, so Paul, Paul is, uh, uh, what's his name again? Jake, Jake, Jake, or Logan Paul.

Logan Paul's one is going to fight Floyd. Logan Paul's going to be fine. He's not going to get hurt. He's not going to get hurt. So he's going to be, like, that's a fun fight. He's going to make a lot of money. He's going to make a lot of money. It's going to be a fun.

It's going to be a fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, yeah. And Mayweather loves money, so. Oh, hell yeah, he does. He loves money. Hell yeah, he does. That publicity tour for the Connor versus Mayweather shit.

That was crazy. That was hard to not while. I mean, that was fucking so entertaining. That was really good. Every single event they did. And Connor did good, man. Oh, he's a funny motherfucker, dude. Yo, so I thought the original fight was going to be Connor.

But I think Connor doesn't want to even bother with it. Oh, you mean against Jake? Yeah. He was calling out his wife and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think Conner's like, I need more money than that, buddy. Yeah. So I think that's a lot of level than him, which he is.

But, you know, he could probably, he could make a lot of money by doing it. But if Connor lost it would make him look so much worse. I think Connor would be a legitimate fighting contender for Jake Paul, honestly, because Conner's not a traditional boxer, right? Right, right. He's an MMA fighter. But I think Jake Paul has no chance. Against boxing Connor?

Yeah. Really? I tell you why. Because Connor doesn't fight like a box. He he he he he's kind of a really good striker But his striking style is not it's not normal Like he I think Jake Paul will yeah I think no no chance

Even Mayweather Listen even Mayweather had a little problem in the beginning with him You know kind of just has a weird The way he puts his guard The way his hands are like here Like he keeps a hand out here And yeah like the It's not you have to watch this hand

But you have to watch this at the same time Like I think Jake Paul have a hard time only because the style is going to be, it's really tricky. Even Mayweather got tagged a couple of times, man. Yeah, he did. A lot of times because of that style is just so weird, man. Like, you don't know where those punches are coming from.

But he says Nate Diaz. He called out Nate Diaz. Nate Deez would whoop his ass, though. I want to see this. Nate Deez is a fucking big, lanky guy. Yeah, yeah. But Neadeez is a jitza guy, so I don't know. Right.

But he also can strike. I mean, it makes it, I mean, Yeah, he is a, yeah, right. When you said, you just said, he's like a ground guy. Ground guy. Yeah. It makes it, but it makes it, it makes it interesting when you're a wrestler or a jihitsu guy, and then you're forced to only box.

I think mentally, that makes it hard for you, too, because, you know, as a professional athlete, you train every day and things become natural. So when A happens, B is automatic. When C happens, D is automatic. Now that you're in this ring, now you have to think. now you have to think. I think you have to overthink now because you know you want to grab them

but you can't grab them because it's boxing so don't grab. So I think that's what makes it difficult for a lot of these other fighters when they're doing this because your brain, your body wants to do one thing natural. You want to grab.

Like you see when Connor, Connor kept trying to hit him in the back of the head. Oh, he started like hammer punching. You saw that? You saw that? You can't do that shit, boy. The hammer punch was funny, man. You kept trying to hammer punch.

Yeah. No, you can't do that. So I think that makes a little difficult for them. Yeah, for sure. I want to see how far Jake Paul is going to take it. But it is kind of like the thing is, I mean, I've had a couple arguments with friends about, you know, how legit Jake and Logan are compared to other boxers. And, you know, see people would be like, oh, it's just discrediting the sport.

Or it's just making it, it's, it's disrespecting the sport in the history of boxing. I don't think it's disrespecting the sport. I mean, it's the guy can box. He can fight. Like, it's not like, it's not like, it's what's, I mean, what's the point of it? The point is to get people to watch it and to, and to, and to make money, right? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, he can, he, the, the dude can fight. Don't, don't, don't get me wrong.

They can fight and they can sell it. They can sell a fight. Listen, if you knock somebody out for 15 minutes with a glove on, then you can fight. Then you got some, I don't care who it is. I mean, if you, when he knocked out Nate, Nate Robinson, that's 15 minutes, dude is out. And this is a professional, former professional. athlete. What do you mean he was out? He was out for 15 minutes. It was like 15 minutes.

Like it was a last remember exact number. You should check, but I think it was 15 minutes. He was out, out. Like, people were worried. That's scary, bro. Yeah, he hit him hard. And it was like, it didn't even look like a punch either. It was like a little like a short half punch, like an under, like a under.

It's power, power. It didn't even look like that thing could have knocked him out. And the Ben Asker punch was hilarious. Oh my God, bro. He hit the ground like a fucking Punda Bricks. That was really, really hard, too. But, yeah. But he got up and he was ready to go back at it.

Yeah. I think they should have let him fight, don't you think. I think should let him fight, too. I think should let him fight. Because he's an MMA fight. He's used to taking that. He's used to getting his head punched. He's just getting his head punched, yeah.

God damn, man. It's fun to watch. It's super entertaining. I don't know anything about it, but I know I love to watch it. That's all I need. Yeah, I want to see how far he's going to be able to take it. I mean, hmm. I don't know.

Until someone. So how did you end up on Steve Harvey's TV show? Oh, the Steve Harvey show. So I was doing a charity in Virginia Beach called Pingpong for Poverty. So I like to do a lot of different charities that involve ping pong. And I did a TV piece there, and they talked about my life story and stuff like that. And then I guess some of the executives on Steve Harvey's show saw it. And they called me and they said, hey,

Can you come down to Chicago? So two days later, I went to Chicago to film the Steve Harvey show. Really? Yeah, so that was cool. That's cool. And you fucking beat him using an iPhone as your paddle. That's my thing, man. I like to beat people with my iPhone 6.

I have a phone just for playing ping pong. Can you use that one right there? This one I will never use. This is my new phone. But I have my iPhone 6. Why is the iPhone 6 good for it? I'd say, so the iPhone 6, is one of the lighter iPhone models.

Like, like, this is heavy. The XR is heavy. Which model is that? This is 12 Pro. So. That's cool. It's like square. Square.

I don't even think mine's like that. I think I'm going to have an older one. It's like round. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is the newer one. They went back to that old, the old style. Remember? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah. And so these phones are heavy. So I can't play with them. Oh, okay. But the iPhone 6 is, it's, it's, it's, It's really light. It hits well.

Trust me, I've tried a lot of phones. And so now what I do is I just order iPhone 6s. I just find them wherever they are and they just keep them. Because they break. Yeah. And I play with it. But it's fun. I like challenging people with my phone.

It's a fun thing I do. That's wild, man. So do you still compete at all? Do you still do any tournaments? No, now, now is no, now not really competing. Now I had surgery like two years ago. on my hip. And so now I'm just,

I play another sport called paddle tennis. I don't know if you've heard of it. So I play pro. I'm actually a pro paddle tennis player. And so paddle tennis is tennis, but it's on a smaller tennis court. It's not pickleball. I repeat, it's not pickleball.

I can't stand pickleball. I don't know fucking heard of pickleball. You live in Florida. Pickleball is like the biggest sport in Florida. Aiden, have you ever heard of pickleball? Yeah. Really? It's, oh, my God.

They haven't at the IRB skateball. Oh, I know what you're talking about. I saw some guys playing that over the weekend. I can't stand that sport. But that sport is the biggest growing sport in America right now. Is it really? Oh, yeah. Pickleball, yeah.

It's literally everywhere. It's everywhere. But paddle tennis is closer to the tennis. It's the same size, similar size court as a pickleball court, except we use a tennis ball and we use a special paddle that's made for paddle tennis. So it's really fast. It's sometimes faster than tennis Because the court's smaller

But the speed is similar So for example If you're at the net and I'm at And I'm maybe like a little bit from the net I might hit the ball right at you Like 100 miles an hour Bam right at you And that's what I do

Like I hit people with the ball And so it's a very quick sport It's almost like playing ping pong But it's tennis Really fast And so like it's really big in the West Coast So that's what you're doing now So I play a lot of paddle tennis now

I still play ping pong too. You know, we have the club, so I'm at the club playing ping pong. But I don't play any tournaments anymore. I haven't played U.S. tournaments since I played pro. And then now I'm just playing more for fun. I forgot to ask you this, but at what point in your career did you end up going to North Korea? Oh, the North Korea. So North Korea was one of the craziest things I did.

Was this after Rockstar? This is way after Rockstar. Okay. This is actually recent. North Korea. is maybe five years ago. Okay. Five or six, five years ago.

So, um, North Korea is after, after, uh, Steve Harvey. Because I can remember, I was like, I gotta do something big this year. And then,

and I was looking in the ITTF, which is International Table Tennis Federation, website. They have all the pro tour tournaments. And then I saw North Korea. I was like, oh my God. I got to go to North Korea. And Dennis Rodman,

I just came back from North Korea. Oh, shit. And I was like, yo, I got to go freaking North Korea. I got to go to North Korea. So I call my friends all around the world. I say, hey, you guys want to play a tournament in North Korea? We can go do a diplomacy for world peace. So historical moment in America, 1971.

America established relations with China through ping pong called the ping pong diplomacy. Hence, you got the movie Forrest Gump. So I wanted to do my own ping pong diplomacy. I wanted to do my own to North Korea. Because at the time, North Korea was really, really against America. And I figured if Dennis Rodman went there, he didn't really do much there, I definitely can go and do something. So I saw the tournament, and I called people and say, hey, let's go.

Everybody was like, no, you're crazy. I'm not going to North Korea. You're going to die there. People are like, you're going to die. You're not going to come back. It was all kinds of crazy stuff. So nobody wanted to go. Then I tried people from the U.S. team.

Let's go. Nobody wanted to go. So I was like, all right, I'll go with myself. So I called the U.S. team up and say, hey, can you guys enter me into the North Korean pro tour in Pyeong, right? And they were like, ah, I said, no, I want to go. Just enter me because we can't enter ourselves into pro tournaments, right? So the U.S. team has to enter you. Right?

So they entered me, and then I got contact from the consulate general of more. Korea and they were like oh I was so happy you're going to come to North Korea blah blah you know and I was like oh this is cool this is really happening and then I saw my name on the list it said Wally Green USA Pyeongyang open and uh I I wanted to go there to make a difference that was the plan I wanted to do a diplomacy I had no idea or no clue of how this was going to happen I didn't know what I was going to do it was no plan I said but I want to do it so the first step is to get there So I wind up going there And there was

One particular situation Who set up the whole trip for you? Oh, I did Oh, you set up yourself Oh yeah I was back and forth with the consulate I had to go to Beijing Can you actually like

Buy a flight to North Korea From the United States? No So what you got to do is you have to go to China And then you go to China You go to the consulate in China You get the visa in China And then you're going to buy the ticket in China

Holy shit Now here's now here's the crazy thing about that. So when you buy the ticket in China, so I'll tell you this, sir, I went. So I went to go buy my ticket and I go to, where I couldn't even find, couldn't even find the airline. They couldn't find anywhere. So I wanted to take a North Korean airline because I wanted the full effect of what it is to go to North Korea. Right. So they have one airline. So eventually in the airport, people trying to tell me to go this way, but I find it, I find it. So I say, yeah, I want to go to Pyongyang.

His, his my visa. And he said it was like, I think it was like $6, 700. And I give them my card. And they say, oh, sorry, sorry, no, no card. So what you mean? No card. Cash only. Yeah.

So I had to pay cash for my ticket. So I bought it. I had to go back out to ATM. And you know it's to take $800 U.S. dollars out in Chinese money. It's crazy. It's like you get all this cash running around. What is the conversion? I think is, what do they use?

Yen? No, no, no. They use R&B. What? R&B. R&B. R&B. What the hell is that mean?

I don't know. R&B. RMB? That's Chinese currency? Yeah. And if I remember correctly, I can't remember. What is it? I can't remember what is it with the conversion rate.

But it's definitely a lot to little. Okay. Right? So I take all this money out and I pay them. it so they give you a receipt but they didn't give me a boarding pass there's no boarding just a receipt he didn't receive and they said okay go i said but where's the boarding pass they don't need it somebody's going to pick you and they're going to bring you to your seat so i got escorted from there to my seat so there was never no like sitting down time it was from there

person took me took me to the plane put me into my seat yeah it's very the process the whole process of going there was really crazy. What was it like on the plane? So when I got on the plane, I noticed every person had these pins, they had these little pins. Every person had one. And I was like, what's those pins? I'm looking at the pins. And the pins were either the current great leader,

that they called the great leader, Kim, Kim Jong-un, or his dad and the grandfather, all three of them. So everyone had a pin on. And I was looking at him. I was, I was like, well, it's cool. So I asked the stewardess, hey, can I get a pin? Yo, she gave me the dirtiest look I've ever gotten in my life. It was, I mean, she was acting like I was asking her for sex.

I just said, can I get a pin? She gave me, she looked at me with this dirty look. And I was like, okay, I guess that's a no. And yeah, so, I mean, everyone had these pins. on and I mean the flight was normal it was fine it was the seats were nice like I have video of all this shit and the seats were nice

it was a pretty cool flight and then you get and you arrive when you go downstairs somebody comes to get you they come pick you up they have a person that's responsible it's called your guide and they introduce themselves hi great to have you blah blah then they take your computer and take your phone because they got to go through that shit

or they go they go through the shit oh yeah they go because there's certain things you can't bring into normal and they had somebody a guide for you Why? Because you were an American? Well, that person's, any visitors, like Westerners, are going to have someone that's responsible for them. Really?

And that person, you're not going to, so you can't leave your hotel and, like, go have lunch. Right. You have to be escorted. You have to be escorted. Actually, you can't even go anywhere. So for me, every day, my every day was the same. It was, get up, go into the hotel, lunch, dining room, eat.

Then she come, picnic. me up, bring me to the practice hall, then she'd bring me to the tournament hall, then bring me back to the practice hall and back to the hotel. So it's back and forth. So there's nothing you can really do without that guide. And that guide is responsible for you. So they report back. So they ask you a lot of different kind of questions, which you have to be really careful. Like people, Like, people don't realize, North Korea, for me, is the most dangerous country in the world for any westerner.

By far, I don't care. You can go to Taliban world. It don't matter. North Korea is more dangerous. Because at least in Taliban, where I got my passport, I can get the hell out. I don't need to be there, right? In North Korea, you don't have no cell phone service.

You have no Wi-Fi. you're not allowed. Western is not allowed Wi-Fi or cell phone service. So with that in itself... Can't use the internet? No, zero. With that in itself, you're cut off from the world. That's it. You're cut off.

The third thing what makes it the most dangerous is that when they check into the hotel, they take your passport. So now you have no passport. No passport, no cell phone, no Wi-Fi. Yeah, you're in jail. Holy shit, bro. Were you freaked out a little bit?

I was never scared until the end Because like I said I grew up in a project with guns What was your your guide like? Was it a lady? Was she nice? So there's the thing So before you go there Was she hot?

Yeah, so this is a trick. Listen, before you go there, they know everything about you. Everything is planned. Nothing is by chance. So they know that I like Asian chicks. She fuck? You know, you definitely, listen, man,

you'll be sitting in jail for 15 years talking about Damn, I know I shouldn't touch that girl. They got no prostitutes over there? You won't even, you'll see anything. You'll never get a check. Like, listen, listen, they know that I like Asian shit. So, so they gave me this, this girl, this, this hot, hot Asian girl. And why me, out of everyone, has a hot Asian.

Asian model as a guy. Come on, that's nonsense. So the reason why they do that is they want to make you feel as comfortable as you can feel so they can get information from you. So she asked me a lot of questions. So what do you think about our great leader? You know, that's a trick question. And you better come up with the right answer because if you don't, somebody will be...

I think he's a cunt. Oh, yeah. Then somebody will be knocking on your door. You'll be asleep. All of a sudden, the hood will come over your head. It'll be no joke. Yeah. So like, but in reality, if you did say something like that, you'd be arrested.

Wow. Yes. Yes. Even if you're an American? More because you're an American. Really? You'll be arrested. So you can't say any stuff like that.

Did she try to, like, lead you on at all to make you try to like. Well, what they do is they don't lead you on your decision, but they lead you on in questions that can potentially get into some shit. I mean like lead you on like try to like tease you like romantically. Oh no, no, no, no. You like, you'd be like, hell yeah. Oh, no, no, no. She's very, very serious. Okay.

She was very, very serious. She wasn't flirtatious at all. No, no, not, not at all. I don't think they have that in them. Really? I don't think, you remember, these people are so oppressed. I don't even think she knows how to, I don't even, she knows how to, you know what flirting is. Yeah, they don't, they can't watch movies and shit, right?

No, you can't watch. anything outside of there. Wow. And, you know, I wanted to see how brainwashed people were. Because, you know, in this day and age, I couldn't believe that people can really be that brainwash. So I set up a conversation with her and I said, hey, you guys like me a lot, right? But why do you hate foreigners?

And the reason why I say you guys, I know you guys like, I see you. you guys like me a lot was to diffuse any possible idea that she would think that I'm trying to start some shit, right? So, so I was like, yeah, I know you guys like me a lot, but why you guys hate Westerners? She said, well, we don't hate Westerners. We just don't want Western, we don't want the Western influence in our country. So I said, okay, I said, okay, I can understand sometimes, you know, us Westerners, we mess things up. And I, and I go. And I go, go, I say, now mind you, what I'm doing now is actually very dangerous. It's extremely dangerous.

I can be in a lot of fucking trouble. So I go to her, I go, but you know that every country in the world needs the help and influence of other countries to, you know, succeed and to flourish. And she goes, well, that's not true. In our great country, everything was done by our great leader. with zero Western influence and throughout great leader, throughout our great country, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, your great leader has some Western influence. So right now, I'm in, I'm just touching the tip of the shit right now.

So I'm like, you know your Western, your leader has some, your Western influence. And she goes, that's not true. Everything through North Korea, by North Korea, blah, blah, blah. And I said, okay, what about basketball? she said basketball was created in North Korea by a great leader and I was like wow so I wanted to get deeper I wanted to get deeper so I didn't really argue with her

and that so I said okay right you don't want if you were to argue with her it would have shut everything down so I said okay I said do you know that your great leader studied outside of North Korea now I don't know what the hell I was thinking of when I was saying this but this could get you arrested is that true Yeah. Oh, I didn't even know that. Switzerland, yeah.

But this kid, that's why he speaks English, perfect English. This could get you arrested. And she says, that's not true. I said, yeah, it's true. I said, everyone knows it. The whole world knows it. And then sometimes you forget what your purpose is when you're in these conversations and you start to take it personally.

So at this point I was thinking it personally because I'm like, you're fucking. Now you're kind of like speaking from the heart. Yeah, I'm like, you're dumb as hell and you're not listening. Don't even know it. Yeah. And so now I'm forgetting what the purpose is. And I'm starting to get a little, like, no. Everyone in the world knows this.

This is a fact. Then she started to get a little upset. And she goes, this is not true. He's never left this. And then I said, oh my God, you know what? I'm so sorry. It was the Cuban president.

My bad. Got out of that shit real fast. Oh, my God. It could have turned real bad for me. And luckily, I caught myself in the middle of it. Because she was getting upset. And all she needs to do is just go back and report. And then you get 15 years and it's corrupting the minds of citizens.

That's a charge. I've studied everything about North Korea before I went there. So I knew. Corrupting the minds of citizens is a charge. Yes, 15 years. It will put you 15 years in a hard labor camp. 15. So that's why you're not allowed to bring books to North Korea.

You're not allowed to bring music. Nothing of the Western world that can potentially get into hands of North Koreans should you bring. Yeah, because that's corrupting the Miami citizens. When you first got there, how long did they keep your phone and your computer for? That was pretty quick. It was at the airport. I got it right back.

I don't know what they did to it. Maybe they went through it. Put some sort of fucking tracking shit on it. I don't know what they did. Maybe mics. I don't know. So I have no idea. But they gave it back to me.

So I had the phone. But regardless, it's useless once it's there because you don't have any service. No, zero. Zero. The only one time I was able to get service was. I bumped into a Chinese guy who couldn't even speak English that much, but he recognized me from my hair. You see, my hairstyles are crazy.

Yeah. So he recognized me from... Yeah, he recognized me from the Chinese TV. So he tried to talk to me. And I don't understand Chinese, but I kind of get the idea that he recognized me. And I saw he had a phone, and his phone was working with Internet and everything.

So then I figured it out. Chinese citizens are allowed to have internet and phone service because China has an agreement with North Korea. Do they really? Yeah. So remember when America was beefing, America kept saying to China like, yo, call me a guy. Because of that, China has an agreement with them. So Chinese citizens get to have cell phone service. So I talk to this guy and say, hey, hey, listen, in English, but he can't speak.

But I say, what I want to do, I want to use his phone. so that I could get internet from his phone onto my phone real quickly. And he let me do it. I took his phone, because I know how to set it to do it. And so I got to use the internet for maybe like two minutes. Because I don't want to get arrested. So I just wanted to check in emails real quick. And for two minutes, I got to use his phone.

But yeah, like for me, it's nothing, zero. So that's why I say it's the most dangerous place. Because anything can happen to you. People don't realize. Look what happened to the American kid that went there, that the college student went there and came back and died here. You didn't hear about that? No, what are you talking about?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, so a few years ago, a college student went to North Korea on some trip, I don't know. And he tried to steal a propaganda poster, which is the dumbest thing you could ever do. If you researched anything about North Korea, you would know they're watching you every second. Yeah, and then they caught him and they arrested him. him and I don't know what they did to him.

They said they didn't do anything to him, but I don't believe it. He came in and died. How did he die? They said that he had botulism or whatever, some virus or some, I don't know, some nonsense. You got sick and just died? I don't believe that. I don't believe it. So he came, they sent him back.

They sent him back here and he died here. Yeah. So, so it's, it's really, really, really a serious place. Like, you can't mess around. And, and, you know, I've learned. from traveling, you know, you just got to respect the shit that goes on other people's countries because it can turn really bad for you.

And especially if you're an American, because you're the person that they want to make an example of. I mean, you're the one that they want to put on that TV for propaganda. Look at this American who did this to our country. You know, so you never want to be that guy. No, don't be that guy. So once I started figuring out she was getting upset, I just changed it real quick.

And that was it. I never talked about it again. Never talked about it again. Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. So how was the actual ping pong tournament? Oh, it was good, man. So like I mentioned before, I didn't have a plan as to how I was going to make a difference.

How was I going to do this diplomacy? I didn't have any plan. Up to that point, I had no plan. I was probing and picking and trying to understand more deeply without. getting arrested. But then I got to play the tournament. So first month I played, I played against China. Then the second match, I was lucky to play against North Korea, which was very lucky,

because it could have been Vietnam, it could have been Syria, it could have been some other country. But I'm sure they set it up so that an American would play in North Korean, I'm sure. So I got to play this, this guy, and we start the match. So first we walk in. The walking is crazy, too, because, you know, the way it works is, you know, you know, the way it works is you have the umpires umpires walk in the music is playing and then the player walks

then another umpire and then I walk you know. Sounds like the WWE. Yeah yeah yeah a little bit a little bit and you're walking and they come in and there's like maybe like 5,000 fans right all North Korean. Damn! But all North Korean mind you right? So these are people that they probably say hey all you people your job today has come to this tournament.

It's not like people randomly walked into the tournament. Everything is planned, right? Everything is made to look like something. So I'm sure they said this people, this is your job today, you're going to go watch this tournament. So they came and

when I started walking in I could feel like the eyes of people on me. Like it's crazy. It's the most crazy feeling. You just feel everyone looking at you, right? Because I'm a black dude with like blonde hair with designs

in it. They've never seen that shit. Unless they've seen Dennis Rodman, and we don't even know how much they've actually seen Dennis Rodman, right? So everyone's looking at you already, just being a black dude from America. You know, because you come out, you know, you have the flag. The U.S. flag is up there. You know, it's on the screen, USA, so everybody knows you're American. So you come out and people are just looking at you.

And all the eyes are just on your body. And you can feel, it's crazy, you can feel the eyes on your body. It's so intense. So then you come out. what is there what is the average citizen there what is their like feeling about americans about american where the devil we're evil and we should all be killed yeah every single citizen this is this is what they're this is what they're brainwashed to believe how the fuck do they i mean how do they justify bringing americans in there to compete because this is it they probably

brought me there to get my ass kicked so they can say that look how great that that that's why said, it's probably set up so that I can play in North Korean. Right? So look, our great country defeated the evil access of America or whatever, not knowing that I am by far, not that player that you think that you're trying to defeat. I'm not that guy. But, but, yeah, so, you know, you come in and everybody's looking at you, and you can feel the eyes, like the eyes are on your body.

You feel it. It's intense. So we start to play. But once zero zero start, that's it. My mind is on the match. I'm about to put it on you. Right? So we start playing.

I get the first point. Whoa, yeah. You know, one zero, two zero, three zero. Every time I make a point, the audience goes, hmm. So picture 5,000 people going, this disapproving weird sound every time you make a point. The first five points all I heard was,

oh, like this, from everyone. I was like, holy shit, it's nuts. And then he makes a point, and all of a sudden, wow, so I clapping. Makes another point, wow, then it gets louder. It's like, hold. Then third point, and it gets, everyone's just clapping in unison, like how you see on TV, clapping really, really loud.

I mean, this is not, this is the preliminary round. It's not the Olympics, it's not the final championship. But, yeah. They don't know, though. No. They're just there because they have to be. They were for their guy, and they were so loud. So it got so loud that I couldn't concentrate.

It was just so loud, and it was just, I've never been, always I'm the underdog, right? So that never happens to me. But it was almost like he was undog, so I was thrown off my game, it was very loud. And then I stopped for a second, and I look up, and as I look up, I just smiled. I just laughed. And then everyone started smiling and laughing. And I was like, oh shit, that's crazy. So I played again.

again, I looked up, I laughed. Everyone started laughing. There was like a chain reaction. Everyone started smiling and laughing. Every time I look up, I laugh, smile. They were laughing smile. So I said, bam, I got it. I got it.

I said, this is where I'm going to make the difference. This is it right here. This is the chance because I got the audience now. I've captured the audience, right? In their mind, normally I should be this evil American. So I should be like, ah, shut the fuck up or something like this. But I didn't do that. I'm smiling and just interact.

And then I, so I just kept interacting the whole match as I'm playing this guy. And then at the end of the match, the North Korean guy wins, right? And, like, you have to shake hands after you, after you play your match, right? So he comes to shake my hand, but you can tell he really doesn't want to shake my hand. He doesn't want to shake my hand, because I'm American, right? So he just won this match. He wants to shake my hand as little as possible. So he comes and gives me this, this weak-ass, like, shake, like, kind of, like, just puts his

hands out and, you know, kind of wants to touch my hand. And I just grabbed his arm, pulled him in, and gave him a beer hug, right? What? Yeah. And so my camera is filming. So my camera's behind me, which is my back, his face, right? And so I gave him a beer hug. And in the camera, you see his face.

It's first like, whoa. But then he smiles. Then he smiles, right? And he quickly, like, gets away. But he smiles, right? So that was the reason to go to North Korea. That smile you can't fake. That's a real genuine smile, right?

So, you know, the whole crowd started clapping and he started cheering. And this was real, right? Because I'm the evil American, right? So there's no way he would have smiled if that wasn't a real feeling. And by him smiling, can probably get him into some shit. Smiling that an American hugged you, right? So then I realized. that I finally did what I went to do.

Because if you think about it, for the rest of their lives, those 5,000 people, they're always going to remember this black dude with yellow hair from America that came and showed them nothing but love. He's always going to remember for the rest of his life.

There's no way he's going to forget. I'm sure he's never been hugged by anybody like me, or even an American or Wessner, never in his life for sure. He's never going to forget it. The rest of his life, He's going to always remember the black dude from America with the bleached hair and designs came all the way and gave him a hug, right?

So then now you can't change people, you know, overnight. It doesn't work like that. But what you can do is you can plant the seed. So the seed is planted in his head. And it's up to him where he wants to take that seed. He can maybe ignore it, but you can never forget it. It's always going to be there, right? So when people start saying, oh, America's this, America's that, America's this.

those people and him can think, well, you know, that guy did come from America and he was smiling the whole time and he gave him a hug. Maybe, just maybe it's not what you guys are really saying it is, you know? Right. And that's how you plant the seeds. So I was able to do that. So the trip was really well worth the anguish that I had being there. It was worth it, yeah.

So it was mission accomplished? Definitely mission accomplished. Because, I mean, it could have went another way. Maybe I didn't get to play North Korean. I got to play Assyrian. Yeah. Then that's it. I would have went there and accomplished zero.

So it was the luck, the luck of the draw. It worked out. And yeah. That's fucking beautiful, man. That's a beautiful story. That's really cool. Crazy, crazy time. Well, that's a strong way to end this thing, man.

We just did two hours. All right, right. I appreciate you coming down, bro. Tell all the listeners and the viewers and everything where they can follow you. find your shit. Oh yeah, man. Just give me a follow on Instagram. It's Wally Green NYC on Instagram. I also started a TikTok. I don't know guys if you guys in the TikTok. What's your TikTok name? It's also Wally Green NYC with an underscore. All right. I'll link it below so they can check it out. Definitely, definitely, definitely.

Cool, man. Well, thanks again for doing this, dude. I really enjoyed it. It was fun. All right, man. Let's go play some ping pong. Yep.