Danny Jones Podcast - #96 The Most Corrupt Cop of All Time | Michael Dowd

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

Michael Dowd is the dirtiest cop in the history of New York City.  In the 80s, Michael patrolled the streets of one of the toughest precincts in Brooklyn. He also headed a ruthless criminal network that stole money and drugs, ultimately resulting in the New York’s biggest corruption scandal ever. Mike was the subject of the explosive true crime saga "The Seven Five"  Where he tells all as he relives his days as a mobster with a badge.. Mike served 12 years in prison for his activities during that time and is widely considered as one of the most corrupt cops of all-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello world. Michael Dowd is the dirtiest cop in the history of New York City. In the 80s, Michael patrolled the streets of one of the toughest precincts in Brooklyn. He also headed a ruthless criminal network that stole money and drugs, ultimately resulting in New York's biggest corruption scandal ever. Mike was the subject of the explosive true crime saga, the 7-5, where he tells all and relives his days as a mobster with a badge. Mike served 12 years in prison for his activities during that time and is widely considered one of the most corrupt cops of all time.

Without further ado, please welcome the marvelous Michael Dowd. Over Joe Rogan? Is that how you guys met, really? Do you get a lot of attention? A lot of attention from the females after your Joe Rogan podcast? Two minutes. Too much, huh? Once too many, goddamn, don't you?

That's funny, man. Yeah, I spent the last two hours watching your documentary, the 7-5. And that was, I was blown away by that, man. Because that was before my time. I was born the year. And I was born in 1987. Oh, okay. So, yeah.

So that was, that was quite the eye-opening film to see, especially by that guy, Tiller Russell, he just done a lot of big projects. Since then. Since then, yeah. Was that one of his first? No, he had a couple of, you know, for him dynamic, but they didn't hit it, you know what I mean?

And then I told him, I'll change your career, just sit down and listen to me. For people out there who don't know, who don't know who you are or aren't familiar with your story. Give me like a brief background or like a brief summary of where you came from. I'm here because of the 7-5 documentary, you know, the character in it, who's me, the main character of the documentary called The 7-5, which aired on Netflix for about three years and was picked up by IFC early on.

They owned it and I think they have it again still now back in their control. But I was a cop in Brooklyn in 1980s. When the crack epidemic broke out, it broke out everywhere and broke out on us too, on the police force. We had no idea what we were dealing with. And so the error that I was a police officer was 82 to 92, and I eventually get arrested, and then the story goes from there. 10 years.

What was it like being a cop in New York before the crack epidemic? Right. And after. Yeah. So it was a very eerie time because before crack hit, you had the AIDS epidemic hit. Right? So we went from one epidemic.

to another. Now we're in another one today, right? We're in this fucking COVID thing, right? So as a frontline cop, we dealt with a lot of these issues in the street first before society as a whole dealt with it, you know? And you sort of learned as you were going, how to handle things. And so it was a thrilling time, to say the least. You know, nerve-wracking. You grew up quick, right?

So you went in there as a 21-year-old young man, sort of. And then, you know, in six months. you've seen more than your mom and dad have seen in their life combined, unless they were soldiers and stuff like that. You were 21 when you joined the police force. Right. What made you want to join the police force? It seemed to the documentary conveyed that it was like a lot of young guys

who had no direction. Right. And they were just like looking for something to do. Yeah, well, it wasn't like there wasn't anything to do. It was more like looking for leadership, looking for guidance, you know. You know, guys in their 20s are fairly immature. Men don't mature till they're about 60, right? Some of us still were 65.

Is it 60? Well, I'm 60 now, and she's telling me I'm still not mature, but I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah, so you had a bunch of young guys, you know what it was like, it was like a frat house with guns. How's that? Wow, that's great. I love that. It was like a fucking friar.

Who wouldn't have loved it? It was a fucking pisser. But the honest thing is it was dangerous, and, you know, so we can laugh about certain things because it's passed, you know. But the unfortunate thing is that we all took our job for granted and didn't. really appreciate our position. You know, like when you're a soldier, you go to war, you're only fighting for the guy next to you to come home. And then as you look back on what you accomplished,

you know, from what I'm told, it's the same thing as being a police officer. When you're in there in the battle, you're battling for the guy next to you and yourself, and you don't realize the impact you have on society and the city and the people in general, you know? And that's a big subject, right? But everybody think, everybody's little, right?

We're only one little wheel in the big cog, you know? Yeah, you were a, big part of history. That was a huge, that was a major part in American history, that little area right there in New York, that time frame in New York, New York City. Yeah, it, it sort of had tentacles into the rest of society for years to come, right? And like a whole generation of people were decimated by this, including law enforcement, right? Because if you look back, and I don't know if you had the time doing research, during that time, police departments were devastated by the crack and the money from crack. You know, in

by choices, bad choices that guys made because they were exposed to such. I mean, when you're making 17-9 a year and the guy that you pulled over has got 17-9 in his pocket, you know, with no fucking job, you know, and he's 16 and you're like, and no license for the call, but he's got a brand-new one. You know, it's just, you say to yourself, what the fuck am I doing? Like, it's a reality check. What makes sense? So, you know, of course we're supposed to do the right thing.

thing, but we don't always, you know, and that's where the 51% good guy or 49% bad guy, and some days they switch sides. Dude, it's crazy that you survived 10 years doing that through that period in New York City. I mean, don't you think? Don't you ever, like, be like, how the fuck am I still alive? I'll give you an example. How many years? You did 12 years in prison, right?

Yeah. So I did like 10 with the city and 12 with the feds. Anyway, but, so I should get a pension, right? This episode of the podcast is brought to you by. Lucy. Lucy nicotine is a company founded by Caltech scientists and former smokers looking for a better, cleaner nicotine alternative. Finally, tobacco alternatives that don't suck. Researched and developed for three years to be made for people, not patients. Lucy has created nicotine gum with four milligrams of nicotine that comes in three flavors, wintergreen, cinnamon, and

pomegranate. Lucy also has lozenges with four milligrams of nicotine that come in three flavors, cherry ice, citrus, and mint. Lucy lozenges and gums are FSA and HSA eligible. So you can use your FSA cards to purchase Lucy now, and it's convenient and discreet. Lucy products can be enjoyed anywhere on flights at work, on the go, or even at the gym. We just got the hat rack to quit his vape pen, and he's chewing Lucy, and he loves the superior taste of the wintergreen flavor. It's 2021.

So get rid of your cigarettes. Unplug your vape, throw out your dip, and get some Lucy nicotine gum. or lozenges. This is the real deal. A subscription to Lucy comes directly to your door each month, so it's simple and you don't have to leave your house, because Lucy has delivery down. Concrete listeners and subscribers can go to lucy.co and use the promo code concrete to get 20% off all products for your first order. That's L-U-C-Y dot CO, and use the promo code concrete at checkout.

K-O-N-C-R-E-T-E. Also, I have to read this disclaimer. Warning, this product contains nicotine derived from tobacco. nicotine is an addictive chemical. That's lucy.com and be sure to use the promo code, Concrete, K-O-N-C-R-E-T-E. Back to the show. So I looked at it like, so the question was how to we survive?

I bought life insurance. So how many men do you know at like 23 and 24 years old that have like a million-dollar life coverage back then? So I had two policies that were worth over a million dollars in case I died. So, yeah, so, and double indemnity was great because if I always hoped that if I did die, I died by an accident because that gave you double indemnity, right? So then your family would be covered double.

That was something a lot of the police officers did. Yeah, because it was crazy. And especially guys that were doing the sort of the things that I was involved. And, you know, I mean, I hung out with the Dominican drug king is, you know. So one day you could be, you know, caviar and champagne, the next day it could be a shootout. You know, you didn't know what was coming from one day to the next. And I'm not saying that there was, I was involved in shootouts per se, although, Some of sketchy things, but the reality is it could have been, it could have been.

So I always was like worried about, you know, so one of the reasons I stayed in the police force to all this was because I had a child. And like, how do you raise a child as a kingpin drug deal? It's not like, you don't put that on the resume. What does your daddy do, you know? So because at some point I made a decision to really not care any longer about being a police officer. And that was when, you know, if you see the documentary, I drove the Corvette up to the lieutenant's bar. fucking spot and said, fuck you. Because I was done.

Like, can you catch me, please? Because I just really should, I think I'm going to be better at that than at being a police officer. Even though I think I was a damn good cop, you know, as far as being able to do the police work, you know. I was slick. I became slick. I learned the street.

I learned the moves of people. I learned to know that guy over there is either got a gun or he's holding some dope on him, just by the walk. And the movement of the head. I mean, it's just, it's just, you just know. Were a lot of guys in the police force back then numb to it, like numb to be able to reading body language or reading somebody, like a real, like a real New York, like a real hustler in New York.

You feel like that's someone who can get along with anybody. That's someone who could talk to anybody and do a deal with somebody. Like me. Like you, exactly. Exactly. And that's something that. In uniform. Right, right.

I mean, that seems something that's pretty fucking crazy. Super valuable, especially if you're a cop and you're actually doing your job. And you're, you know, you're a way. of this skill that you have. Did the other guys in the police force have this skill, or were they just sort of like coming to work and...

Well, so there was, listen, so I guess I alluded it to partially before. In the 80s, there were numerous, like hundreds of police officers arrested. Hundreds. It comes close to 1,000 police officers were arrested from 1980, 1985,

when crack really started a hit, to 1992. Close to 1,000 cops were arrested. for being involved in drugs. But of course, you know, I was the, I was the picture of the, you know, the white Lily Long Island guy that worked in the Brooklyn Police Precinct. And, you know, he was purveyor of evil against the poor people in the ghetto. The fuck out of here.

The fuck. They trained me. Christ's sake. Right, right. No, I mean, what you did, I mean, well, first of all, in the beginning of, like, throughout the documentary, I love how the court testimony is weaved throughout the whole thing. how people love that. It's great.

You know what? Because I'm not a film guy, so that almost bothered me to see it. But I can see what every single person that I've had an interview with, which is probably about 100 by now, have always said exactly that. It's the backbone of the whole thing. It's great. It's weaved through the whole thing. And the best part about it, to me at least, was how matter of fact and straightforward and

honest you were about everything. Like, it's just, you're straight up just telling them, yes, I did this and this. Well, you know, so the comment on that is that, so like people ask, what was that like, you know, why were you so deadpan honest? You know, I had like 30 federal prosecutors sitting in the fucking room looking to see me fuck up, okay? That's number one. So if I told anything incorrect or lied or obfuscated, I could be charged with it. And on the other side was, I've already been arrested. and charged with, you know, I mean,

what people don't know when we do these interviews is that I was suspected for nine murders in Brooklyn, okay? I didn't do any, but the New York Post ran with the story that they're looking for nine bodies to attach to me. And the last thing on my mind that I'm worried about is a couple hundred kilos or whatever, fucking, you know, 200,000 in cash.

At this point, I'm still fighting in my head that they're suspecting me for being involved in nine murders. And it was like, this is nothing. compared to what these people are talking about. So, yeah, so from that perspective, you can understand why it was so easy for them to say, yeah, I did hundreds of crimes. I actually lied.

I did thousands. And the only reason I didn't say thousands because my father was in the fucking audience behind me, watching me testify. So I hope they don't, I hope I don't get a federal sentencing enhancement for not telling a complete truth. I mean, I felt for you in that documentary,

you know, making the small amount of money that you were making, being a police officer in New York, and seeing, like you just said, seeing all these guys that you were busting that had, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on them, if I was in your shoes, I probably would have done the same fucking thing.

I would have been hustling with them, stealing money from them, and running around, gallivant, snort and coke. Yeah. Yeah. Banging horses, yeah. Bane huggers?

Yeah. That's what, listen, it was that way. But I was the face of it, right? So everybody has to be the full guy. And I don't lessen my responsibility by saying that.

I take a full responsibility for what I did. But, you know, but most guys got terminated. Back then, they'd get terminated. But my situation was I got away with it so long that they were pissed. And then more so that Suffolk ended up catching me on a wire to my partner's, ex-partner's house, Kenny Errell. That's the guy who ratted on you. Yeah, he put a wire on later, but his phones were tapped. And then that's how they got to me.

He didn't know his phones were tapped, but I knew his phone was tapped. I said, you'd fucking tapped. And he goes, what are you talking about? I said, I haven't seen you in sick in four months. I said, the day I show up at your house, there's surveillance on it. Now, what happened to him? He never even did a day in jail or prison? Yeah, no.

I mean, when they, the first arrest, you know, when they hold you over, he did that and he got bail and went home, you know. And they gave him, they gave him the plea option. They gave him the plea option to cooperate. You walk free. Cooperate against him, and we'll go to the judge and ask him to give you zero. And, you know, so it's up to the judge, obviously. Did you ever see him after that happened?

Yeah, we made the documentary together. Really? Yeah. What was it like being in the same room with him after that? So it goes down like this. They asked me to do it with, if they would. So I wasn't going to let him be part of the documentary, okay? Because I had a little animosity, I would think, you know,

the guy went and lived his life and had a, you know, good life for himself, kept his pension that I got him. You know, he never sent the notes saying, hey, listen, I'm sorry, good luck. You know, when you get out here, you know, I'll take you and your family on a trip to fucking Spain, whatever, you know, nothing. No, no like, listen, I'm sorry. I did what I did. And it's not even what he did.

It's just how he did it, you know? He was offered this plea agreement. And all he had to do was take a plea. But what he did was he encouraged me to do further crimes while out on bail. And put this wire on. And he tried to encourage me to talk about my family, my brothers, my cousins, my aunts and uncles. Like, he tried to get a whole basket full of shit to give to the feds, you know, when the reality is he did exactly what I did.

You know, of course, I would take, I would be, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was the instigator, but, you know, I mean, you're a fucking grown man, you make your own mind up, you know. And, you know, all he had to say was no. And it would have been done. What was it like, though, when you saw him for the first time after you did 12 years of prison? So I told, yeah, so I told the director, Tiller Russell, I said, there's only one way this is going to happen. I said, I want you and your film crew at the precinct. and I want you to tell him to meet you at the precinct, not me.

Meet you guys at the precinct. You want to take a picture of him in front of the 75 precinct. So, sure enough, at 1201, high noon, whatever the fuck you want to call it, you know? So he came down in the block and he turned in front of the precinct and I was standing next to the mailbox and he came over. I just looked at him. I said, Kenny, he goes, he fucking turned white. Like, ah!

So I came over and I gave him a hug. I said, hey, you know, we're home. over, you know, how you doing? Really? Yeah, yeah. What are going to do? At this point, you know, we needed them for the documentary in some respects, you know, and at that point, you know, you miss your old friend, you know, even though, you know,

it's like a bad relationship, you know. After time goes by, you know, you forgive each other, you know, say, hey, listen, we were young, we made mistakes, you know, so it's a similar feeling. The only thing about it is, is, I would like to have seen some humility or some, you know, some feeling of compassion for what I had to go through, you know? So people justify what they do to others by blaming you for what they had to go through, right? So, you know, his life was torturous, you know.

He got three-quarters disability pension and moved to Passcoe County here in Hudson or something like that or the hill. What's the hill? Spring Hill, you know. Oh, really? Yeah. So, like, you know. Yeah, and he had to live with that guilt, too, I'm sure. Well, so, yeah, so to alleviate that guilt, I said, listen, you know, I must not have been easy on you.

And so, you know what he says to me? I got him in my car. He says to me, I'm not going to tell you the truth, Mike. I didn't lose a minute of sleep over this. I just wanted to fucking kill him. He's in my car. I'm driving. He says, I'm not going to lie to you.

I didn't lose a minute's sleep over this. You know, because, first of all, people don't know that his name was Scummer. Okay. So everybody has like a little nickname. Mine was Mikey D. Whatever. They had some other name for me, too. Doc.

couple names for me. And his name was scummer. So I said to him one day when I was working with him, why do they call you scumber? He goes, I'm a scumbag. I said, oh, okay, I get it. So before I became his partner, he was known as the scummer, you know.

So he was a scumbagher, and that's who he is. So he's true to his word, true to his name that he earned when I said to him, you know, Kenny, if I felt as though you had some compassion, I mean, 12 years, I kissed bricks. I kissed cement block walls. I'd wake up dreaming kissing a brick, you know? Yeah, it happens, you know.

Why that happened? I don't know. I was fucking in prison kissing brick walls. I mean, it happens, you know. He didn't kiss another dude. Thankfully, you know, so in his case, he'd turn over and kiss his wife or fucker, you know, and I'm kissing bricks for 12 years. So, like, and I got two kids that grew up without a dad, you know, so.

So, so, so you don't have to feel bad for me for that, But you should have some compassion, right? Say, listen, it must have been different. Like, not a fucking, like, like, like wind going through an empty fucking hole in your head, right? Through the outside, you know, I'm like, holy shit. Wow. So it was a little bit disappointing in that respect.

But one of the things that I liked about the meeting was, I was in control. He tried to be, but I was in control. And he would say something, and I'd say, that's the way you remember it. That's not the way, that's not the facts. You know, he says, why is it the way you say it's right? And the way I say it's not right.

I said, for 12 and a half years, I sat in a fucking prison cell, recalling what I did and what you did. And for that 12 and a half years, you were fucking your old lady and raising kids and working. So who do you think would have a better, clearer memory of those days? Right. You or me?

Did you spend most of that time, most of the 12 years reflecting on everything that you did? I would say a good portion of it, you know? So it was more so that, you know, I tried to like tabulate it and document it I've written it down a hundred times

started it and stopped and stopped in fact I'm still trying to get it started and stopped my life rights are owned by one of these you know organizations in Hollywood and they still haven't been able to write the screenplay how long's it been since you sold

in the life rights or option to do on? This is my third fucking time so it just keeps happening you know and they still keep they can't get to a screenplay so I told them if you come sit with me, you'll get it. Like, hello, you want the story?

I gave you an award-winning documentary that's run for three fucking years on Netflix. You think you sit with me, I'll give you the movie. Right. I'll give it to you. I can't sit down, you and me. I'll write the fucking, I'll tell you, right, I can't write well. Talk to text.

I've been talking to my phone now. Yeah, exactly. For about eight days, I've spoken to my phone for an hour a day. I've got 86 fucking vignettes where you would put the scenes together. So far. I could tell from the text you sent me earlier. that you were just talking into your phone. Yeah, because it was illiterate, right?

It was New Yorkies. You figured it out. Yeah, I know how you guys are. You're fucking crazy people. I love the part of the documentary where you said that you took one of your first busts, or one of your first, you basically robbed a drug dealer. When you went to his house, you saw a big giant bag of marijuana, and you found a couple of guns and some cash.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was good one. And you said you took that money and bought a condo in Myrtle Beach. That was the cocaine. Oh. That was Norris. Noriega's cocaine. Hmm. Yeah, that was manning in New Rodriguez cocaine.

That's what we bought the condo with. So you sold us cocaine? Yeah. Where did you sell the cocaine at? I don't remember. I gave it to somebody to sell. I don't like, I didn't hit in the street and sell it.

Right, right, right. He gave it to my point. He gave it to a conned guy. Guy who ran Con Ed. Some guy was working in Con Ed. They had a good connect in Con Ed. Oh, my God. It was the best Peruvian fucking pink flake

ever saw in your life. That's insane. I can't even imagine. I bought the condo with that money. That was Noriega's cocaine. Really? Yeah. And how much was the price of cocaine per kilo?

28,000. 28,000 in kilo. Then. Then, but it consistently went down. It ended up down about $11,000 when I got 87, 88, 89. And it just constantly went down, didn't fluctuate. Was it like Bitcoin? When it goes up and down?

No, no. It would eventually go up, which is why we ended up getting arrested. Really? How does that make? So cocaine went from 11,000, and it worked its way up to 15,000 a kilo. And it was steady. And then what happened was it went from 17-5 to 34 overnight

because it was Easter holiday. And Colombians are very religious, you know. So they don't ship cocaine around Easter. They just, you know, they cut their fucking movement back. And there was a shortage and maybe a couple big busts happened. So the cocaine price doubled. So at that very week that it doubled, Kenny and I got into our own little supply business.

And it created more conversation. We needed to recruit a few people to put extra money up. And that's when the whole story that people don't really know the whole story is four other cops in the 73rd precinct got involved and put their money up. Because Kenny is a cheap fuck. Instead of coming up with half the money like I did, he had to go recruit three or four guys for $2,500 each.

And it's just the way it is. Right. So, yeah. What do you think? What is your opinion on, like, all of the stuff you see online today. Nowadays, everybody has a phone. All you see is, like, shootings with kids getting shot everywhere. And all the stuff with the guy who just got murdered, George Floyd, and, like, all, all the stuff that's going on with police brutality in the news today.

And compared to what it was like when you were running the streets of New York. Like, what is your... This is fucking Disneyland. What do you mean by that? This is Disneyland compared to what it was back then. Right. this is a fucking joke there's no brutality out there today

and if there is it seems like most of the time it's captured on there's somebody with a phone who's filming it yeah you see every fucking incident today back then there was one every three minutes and you know I spent the last two weeks with a bunch of rap guys I can't repeat I don't know names I was with these bunch of rappers and they were all from in my era you know I was chasing them down the street

because they were selling crack and rapping songs on weekends you know and so but half these guys I ended up running into. And they were like, it was so much better back in the 80s and 90s. Today it's fucking, it's crazy out there, you know, because they got their beating, they got their money taken, they went home. Right.

And they could keep running their business. They could keep doing their fucking thing. You know, this is them. This is them telling me, I'm the cop in the room. We're doing a podcast with a bunch of guys smoking gonzier over my head and fucking running around, you know, blood clop motherfuckers. And this is how they're telling me, Jesus, it was so much better. You guys were way better back then.

Today everybody gets locked up for nothing. So, I mean, this is the guys who took beatings all their life. But they were out the next day, and they were living a life, and they weren't telling on the police, and the police weren't telling on them. It was a whole different society back then. You know, the 80s destroyed a lot of people's lives because people learned how to survive in it, or they didn't.

So when you walk me through, like, what it would be, like a day in the life of a police officer in the area that you were working and like a day not in just any police officer's life but your life like what was like the percentage of crime organized crime you were participating in and like the percentage of actual police work you were doing okay so I guess there's two different ways to describe it so there were times when I was just when I was as an ordinary patrolman which is what I was most of my career I would have two different I had two different approaches the beginning I was like a glutton. You know, I would, every job that came over as a drug run, I would go on it.

And there was 50 of them a day. You know, so you called a 50 different drug calls a day. So not everyone did you rob at, because, you know, these guys got slick, too. They tried to get robbed. You know, and then sometimes you would take it. So here's the deal. The police department didn't want you making drug arrests. Okay?

So start with that. So now you're a police officer in a crack-infested neighborhood. and you're getting called to 30, 40, 50 drug runs a day. If you're not on one, you're backing up on one. So whatever. So the point is, and we backed each other up out there pretty well because any minute guns start flying and bullets start flying out there. And it was a violent neighborhood.

It was violence every day. I mean, we probably averaged five guns a day taken off the street in one precinct alone, maybe more. All right? And we averaged about a homicide every day and a half. And usually it takes 10. shootings to get one homicide, maybe eight to ten.

Eight to ten shootings is one homicide. So you're talking about 2,500 shootings in my precinct and 100 murders, you know? So in that ballpark, my numbers are all right now, but in that range. How many people were you arresting? None.

You were never, you never arrested anybody. I made 43 arrests in 10 years. That's it. I made 36 of them in one year. 36 of them. 36 felony arrests in one year. And then after that, I was done. And after that, for the remaining nine years, it was like 10 more.

Yeah, maybe less. I don't know. That's wild. I was done. I was, I was, I was done. You get in trouble making arrests. So I found out another way to make money. Making arrests was a big money maker.

You know, every time making arrests, usually you get overtime, right? So a cop goes from making at that time, I guess I was making, if I say $23 an hour, I went up to make him 36 miles an hour. So, and most of the arrest work is paperwork and drudge work. But it's, you know, paperwork. It's court appearance. It's sitting in the DA's office. It's transporting a prisoner.

So, you know, now your buddy's by the end of this. Your buddies, you hate each other by the end of this. Because you're with this guy in the next 16 hours, okay? You and your prisoner. Really? You're hanging out for the next 16 hours. Yeah, together. So if you make an arrest, you're basically just fucking around.

Now you're your pal. Wow. You went from fucking running somebody down, knocking him over there to give him a hug and buying him a beer or something. That seems like a pain in the ass. Seems like a waste of time. Why, I mean,

why does the cop. Well, that's how it was. I'm telling you how it was. And it's not necessarily that way, but I'm hearing, I'm hearing today that it's sort of back to that again. Really?

Because the volume of arrests and the backlogs and the system and, you know, and the no bail because the guys, they don't post bail, they're back out and they get arrested. Some guys got arrested seven times in three days. You know, back out in four hours. So,

I mean, so from what I understand, it's really out of control. right now, but I'm talking about, from my experience, that's what it was. So an arrest equaled money. So if you don't make arrests, you know, I found other ways to make money. What was it like? So the first time you started working for, there was the one guy who worked in the grocery store.

What we're overlooking is the fact that the police department didn't want you making drug arrests. And you became the armed security for the drug dealers. Make sense? What do you mean? Why didn't they want you making drug arrests? Because it cost money. Interesting. They were only worried about money.

It's a city. It's a municipal organization. They're worried about money. Huh. So every time I made a drug arrest for a crack dealer or a marijuana dealer at the time or a heroin dealer at the time, I took myself off the street. I made 17 hours overtime. I put one guy in front of a judge.

The guy went in front of the judge. He got bailed out, you know, a day later. And cycle repeats itself. So at the end of, at the end of the week, I could have made five drug arrests, you know, one a day. Because once you make one, you're off the street. You get it. Right.

So you only make the arrest at the end of shift, because then you get overtime the whole run. Okay. So what did they want you doing if they didn't want you making drug arrests? Just be visible. Just to be visible. Be visible so that the homicides would stay down. And summonses.

Okay. And make sure you write your book. Summets. Yeah. So I used to write him to Benjamin Ward. He was the commissioner at the time. And when did all this change? When did this?

I mean, at some point, there was a, a, a huge push to get everyone that was dealing crack or coke off the streets, right? Yeah. So there was an era, there was a time when they executed a cop, Eddie Burns. The drug organization in Queens executed a cop by, he was guarding a witness's house. And I could be wrong in the year. It was either 86 or 88. I don't remember quite, but so on the back of that, the,

PD and the feds teamed up and they put a joint task force together and went seriously after the crack organizations in Queens specifically. It was odd, though, because they actually went after the crack organization in Queens, but not those in Brooklyn or Manhattan or the Bronx, you know, because they executed this young cop who was sitting there, got any witness. So that was where the push came from. And what happened was the Fed stepped in. And there's new laws that they're all complaining about that Joe Biden put in place back in the 80s and 90s, those laws kicked in, and the feds began to enjoin arrests by city PD. So the city PD and the federal officers worked together so that they would take them from city

prisons to federal prisons. So that began to, I mean, when I hit the federal prison system in 92, there was 46,000 inmates. When I left in 2004, there was 190 or 185,000 inmates. So the population, like, quadrupled while I was in the system. And most of those people that came in were young, black, ghetto crack dealers. Really? Yeah. Probably 100,000.

All arrested for crack. For crack. Just for possession? Was there any, like, violence? No, no, no, no. Listen, no one in there is there for, no one's in there for their first sale of crack, okay? Right. No one's in there for that.

In fact, they're not in there for the tent sale of crack. What they're in there for is crack and violence. So they always say, oh, we're going to let them all out. good luck you know I mean you know and I'm not saying

everyone don't I'm just giving you a blanket example you know and then there's guys in there that sold one kilo

of crack to one undercover and they got life hmm you know 22 years old they got life you know

right set up you know yeah never sold a kilo on his life you know but I

they gave him a kilo to sell to you wait a minute this is both fence on both sides yeah that's anywhere

yeah entrapment right it doesn't work in a drug case that's so fucked up. Yeah. So what were you,

what, what did you feel like when you first started actually working for, like the head of one of these drug organizations? Like, you, you were working for these drug empires based out of New York. Right. And,

and, uh, and you were a cop on duty? Like, was there like a moment, like a shift for you, like a moral shift where you're just like, fuck it. I'm just going to do this.

So, so I was under investigation already as a young cop for shaking down people. And so my career took some path where it was clear that they were onto me and were trying to push me out. At what point was this? How far in? Oh, I was on, I think, four and a half years, maybe five years at the time. And they sent me to an assignment in Coney Island.

And so Coney Island was like basically what was shifting you away from where you're at so that you're not in the same position to do the same things. So you have to get a new routine and just maybe you'll actually straighten up and do your job, which I did. So when I was in Coney Island, I did my job and I did, you know, what are doing Coney Island? You eat hot dogs on fucking Nathan's hot dogs on the boardwalk. Right. So that's what I did. Anyway, and then when I came back from that, the 7-7 had broken.

It was a scandal in the 77th precinct. 13 cops were arrested for doing what we were doing. So everybody around me left. Like two went to Nassau, two went to Suffolk, two went to Florida. One just quit and went to North Carolina. Another guy got arrested for something stupid. Another guy went to rehab. Two guys went to rehabs.

So I came back from Coney Island. And there's a lot of stories that I'm just glossing over right now. I came back from Coney Island, no one wanted to work with me. Because anybody that I worked with was gone. One guy went to Key West. And the reason he went to Key West, so he can run to Cuba if he had to get the fuck away. I mean, this is, and this is for real. New Yorkers love Florida, man.

Yeah, well, you know, it's the second borough. So fifth, sixth borough, whatever they call it. Um, yeah, so, so, uh, he, he was in Key West or whatever and, uh, and, and I'm up in New York and I'm, I'm the only one holding the bag and like, they're looking at me like, what the fuck, man? How, how are you still on the job? So it was difficult to get a partner and then eventually I worked my way and started to earn respect to the guys a little bit again. And then I ended up working with Kenny Urell and we became so, so at that point it turned from being so, so what? So I took a different approach to everything. But I, you know, I'm watching them. not any here. I'm getting tired of not making money. You know, I'm, you know, I got high mortgages. I got four homes, you know, condo on the ocean, you know, I got some bills here, you know. So, and I lived okay because I had rental incomes and whatnot, but the reality was that I was so used to that extra extra extra $2,000 a week just to say hello, you know. So what happened was

I met this guy, Baron Perez, as you see through the documentary as it works out. He was the Autosound City guy. He owned an automobile shop where they put the music in. And who goes to put these $40,000, $30,000 music systems in their car? As drug dealers, because they had a lot of cash to bury. And so I was a friendly side at his shop, you know, because I pulled the patrol car up. He'd put a new Benzzi.

Back then they had Benzy boxes. I don't know if you guys even know what they are. What the fuck's a Benzie box? See, I know. You don't even know what a Benzie box is. Look it up. Look it up, Austin. Yeah.

What it is is, is. Back then they would break your window and then break your dash, right, ruin your dashboard to take out your radio. Because the blah punk was a big thing. And you know the guys don't even know. You missed this whole thing. People would steal your Blah Punk radio

because it was worth, I don't know, $800, whatever the fuck it was. I don't know. If it was worth $200, it was worth more than what they had in their hand, right? So back then they began to do these things called a Benzie box where you'd put the radio in and pull the radio out. So when you left your car, you would take the radio with you. But what happened was most guys would take the radio and put it in their trunk

or take the radio and put it under their seat. So they'd break your window anyway and go under your seat and get it. I lost four, okay? I lost four Venzi boxes and four windows. Wait, isn't that the thing where the, like the faceplate of the radio, you could push it and it would come off? You could like throw it in your backpack or something. Remember that?

Yeah. Yeah, that was the new Benzy. That was a new Benzy. That was a new age. That was a new age Benzy, yeah. So the whole radio came out, you know? What kind of, I mean, what kind of an impact did the police force actually have on that part of New York?

Like, were you seeing any changes being made? Was there any progress? Was there any kind of like... It was the finger in the hole of the dyke. You just were holding the fucking water back. And really, the sad thing is, the truth of the matter is the cops could have handled it all, but we weren't allowed.

And you see, it's a repeating theme, you know? The cops could have handled it all, but, you know, the cop's job is to be, you know, a politician or, you know, a nice guy, you know. So the heavy-handed cop would get in trouble, like any other time. Did things, thank God they weren't fucking on camera back then. Because there would be a lot, 80% of the force would have went to jail back then, okay? Straight up.

What do you mean you said, you guys, if they were to let you, you could have fixed it. What do you mean by that? Well, because we weren't allowed to make arrests. And, you know, there's ways of convincing people to move on or stop. and it was not so being a cop is not necessarily what people think it is, okay? So I know you're standing on that corner

it's fucking snowing out, it's 2.30 in the fucking morning and you're out there with your three friends. What are you doing? I know what you're doing. You know I know what you're doing, but I can't do anything. Do you get it?

I mean, this is how it is. So, I mean, because there's no reason for you about with your fucking back then they had igloo, whatever those they had the fur around the fucking collar oh yeah and they came out like this

I like it, Eskimo. Eskimo, thank you for the word. They had the Eskimo hats and coats on and they'd be there for the whole thing they have shifts. They had a shift and they change shifts when we change shifts.

So it was like perfect. They, oh wait, they do it four to 12, yeah, I got the four to 12 so, you know, all right, I'm out of here. When I'm out here, nothing I can see. You got it. boss. I mean, that's what I would tell them. Because I would go to the bodega, sit down and have a couple

cold ones and eat. Was this before or after the pimps were running the streets in New York? This was after, right? That was in the 70s, I think. Yeah, that was the 70s, yeah. Yeah, crack took everything over everything. Because it was very violent and very, very lucrative. So, well, crack, I mean, crack's basically the same thing as Coke, right? It's just, it's just cooked with some bacon soda or something like that. Yeah. I don't know. I never made it, never tried. You never tried smoking crack? Really? Yeah.

I always said I would like to try it once just because I've seen so many movies about it. Like what's his name in Wall Street? That won't kill you. Might lead you out. You might end up sucking dick somewhere because you need more than that. Watch yourself. Wasn't there an NBA player who died from it? Yeah, Len Byers.

That changed the world. How did it change the world? That was before my time. Right. When Len Byers died, he was drafted by Boston Celtics, right? So this is where it becomes interesting. Boston Celtics, who's in charge of the Boston area? Kennedy.

Right? The Kennedys run the Boston whole area and Martha's Vineyard shit and all that stuff. So when Len Byers smoked on that crack and killed himself, he never got a chance to play the best player at the time drafted, never played one game for the Boston Celtics. Does he really drafted number one? He's number one. Yeah.

Ted Kennedy came up with these laws, these crack laws. and said, we need to crack down on the crack laws and these crackers and these crack babies and all this other shit. So he went haywire, he put these laws in place, which did a great job. I mean, five years later, after Giuliani took over, you can walk in Manhattan on Disneyland, you know,

42nd Street was clean, everything was clean. So the crack laws eventually did their job. The problem was along the way, the crack laws alienated a lot of people and a lot of people got burned by crack itself, including myself. You know, it was part of my demise was the money from crack in the street.

Right. And the crack law specifically where basically if you got busted with crack, it was way worse of a prison or a jail sentence. But yeah, but not in the city. Right. Not in the city, but in the feds. So that's how it became effective.

Ted Kennedy was a federal senator. Senator from Boston area, Massachusetts. So he and Joe Biden and that crew put together these vicious crack laws to help clean up the cities. And it did. It just when it cleaned it up, it was,

Really, Joe Biden was around back then? Oh, yeah, he's still around. He's still, he's barely hanging on now. Fucker. And then when did that start changing? Didn't Obama start trying to roll that back and try to... Yeah, you know what it was? So to his credit, he tried, but the reality is Democrats always considered weak on crime, right?

So if he was able to pull off what he wanted, what he wanted everybody to free, because clearly he's still running shit, you do know that, right? He's still running this. He's running this right now. So what happened was they didn't want... I thought it was goddamn Nancy Pelosi. No, no, he's running this. They didn't want, they didn't want Trump to be the guy who cleaned up their drug mess, their drug penalty problems.

So every time Trump wanted to introduce something, they wouldn't go for it because they didn't want anything positive on Trump. So he ended up doing executive order to promote, what he called, pardon this one, pardoning that one. He was pardoning these people. and he did change some of the sentencing laws and what happens is people don't realize is that most sentencing laws they're oppressive sentencing laws but they're designed for a reason

they're designed to make you want to tell on me okay and that's what is the that's why the laws were designed they where they were so and every person is given that opportunity at some point usually not all but usually most individuals are given an opportunity to cooperate in Kenny's case he cooperated

without going to prison he cooperated stayed in the street, put a wire on against me. And then, you know, so he won't. But anyway, so that's why the laws were designed the way they were. So they were very heavy-handed in their sentencing, and they would bring, so one of the things was

they wanted everybody to be arrested. That was the federal goal, to arrest every person selling drugs. It's the best idea they could come up with. And that was their approach. So if you came to, if you got arrested by the feds, or city and the feds joint task force,

if you brought in 25 of your best friends you would get a two-year sentence and each one of your friends would cooperate against each other and they'd all get five-year sentences. So you'd win get two, they'd get five, and then they could go home. If they didn't cooperate, they got 50. So they all fucking turned on each other.

That's a crazy fucking season. Yeah, and they filled the fucking prisons up and they cleaned the city streets out and then most of those guys came out and they got the hint. You know, they get the hint. Now, if you did a one to ten, five repeated, you know, whatever. But the fact is, when you sit down for eight, ten years, 15-year stretches, you know, he's just tired.

You just, you know, they beat you down. And they did that to most of the people. And if they didn't straighten their lives out, they know what the next, they know they were offered a 45-year plea and they got off at six. Right. So they know the next time they show up, there's no offer, you know, you're going. Do you think most of these crimes or most of this violence and everything would be, a lot of people say that a lot of this stuff would be fixed if just all this shit was legal. Okay.

So my thing on drugs laws is there should be none. No drug laws. No drug laws. Yeah. The war on drugs was a complete fucking... It's a disaster. Yeah. It's been a disaster. More people have died fighting the war on drugs than people that have died using drugs. It's just created billionaires in Mexico and Colombia. Yeah. Right. And I'd like a piece of that fucking money myself.

Okay? I'm not going to lie to you. But I'm not allowed. You got your fair share, Mike, okay? Well, that's what they say, but I came out, broken, you know. Really? You didn't stash any before you got locked up? Well, you don't think you're going to get locked up until you do. Yeah, that's true.

You know, four houses and a condo on the ocean. A lot of cash laid into them things. You didn't bury any cash anywhere? No. A little bit. So what did you actually get charged? What was your actual charge? Was it, uh, RICO?

Yeah, I was eventually charged with a RICO statue. But that would, that consumed or, you know, contained the actions throughout my career. So when I walked in, they offered me a plea agreement for 24 to 30 years. I said, what the fuck? This is what you said. You get it? I walk into prison. Never been arrested in my life, right?

I was a guy, a pretty good kid. You know, I walked in, I was offered a plea for 24 to 30 years. And I'm like, are they fucking serious? Like, my lawyers, I like, calm down. You know, this is just the first, I said, just the first offer? 30 fucking years? I mean, who does that? did I kill? Of course, a month later, they put a story about me killing nine people.

But anyway, which I didn't. But, so, like, can you imagine? Like, you're facing 30 fucking years. I'm like, what did I do? You know, I took some fucking money. How old were you the time? At that time, I was 31. Yeah. I took some money from some drug dealers.

So what the fuck? We just exchanged. We bought her to you. Yeah. But you know what? I laugh about it now, but it wasn't a nice thing that I did. I mean, you had one hell of a fucking life. In your heyday, you were having, you had these drug kingpins paying you, what,

eight grand a week, something like that? Yeah, that wasn't enough. Basically just to tip them off on shit. Just basically to... And half of it I made up, because you had to produce, right? Right. Like, what are you paying? Make it look like you're actually doing something for them.

Right. And one time it worked out that I saved Diaz's organization one day. And who is Diaz again? Adam Diaz is the Dominican guy who was introduced. introduced to me by Babburn Perez, the AutoSound City guy who ran the auto shop where all the drug dealers would go to his shop. How big was his organization at that time? And how much of the... He probably had 30 men working for him. He had four stores that he sold out of... Only one I knew, but actually two.

So these guys were selling what? Just coke? No, he had three different spots. He just sold cocaine. So he sold coke out of grocery. Yeah. So you go to the gross. So if you see the movie, you can come to my... store you can get my inican people can get pamper's you can get a kilo but you can get anything at my store his bodegas were very successful too you can buy some cheerios and you can buy an eight ball yeah but he yeah but he most of his was weighted he distributed mostly weight you know but he had one or two spots because everybody likes you know the low you go on the number the higher the the the profit margin is so he had one or two spots that sold eight balls and stuff like that which i didn't know about

until if i had known all i found out because when you When you get arrested, you get all the documentation from the case. I was tied into his case, and I got all the documentation from his case. You know, he was pulling in $100,000 a week in profit. Dustin profit. If I had fucking known, I get $20,000 a week. What the fuck? I mean, I'm risking my freedom here.

So is that the way most of the Coke dealers worked in the city back then is they just basically had a couple grocery stores and they would sell Coke out of the back? Bodegas were the way. Bodegas. Yeah, because you can go in, right? legitimately welcome to a business and instead of handing the money off at the register you went to the back of the

bodega and you handed them a shoebox full of, you know, 20s or 50s or hundreds, whatever it was and out. 15 minutes later, down, down they had hatches and shoots. They had, you know, like you go to the bank and they have this thing that sucks. I don't know if you.

Yeah, the tube. The tube, yeah. They did the same thing in the fucking bodega. Really? Yeah. That's why. And everyone was buying like, like, large amounts. Well, that was his, that was his,

that's his thing. That's how he sold to like the street dealers. Right. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. So he would pick up 100 kilos and sell them in a week. And where was he getting the kilos from?

So I didn't get that, I didn't get to that part of the routine, but from what I hear and what he said, he got them from large distributors that were tied to, you know, the big guys, the Colombians. Like the Medell and Carole. Yeah, the cartel. Yeah. Pablo and stuff like that. Yeah. That guy was pretty interesting in the documentary. Adam was.

He had a very interesting demeanor to him. Like there was like so many, there was one scenario where you guys robbed or somebody robbed a store or something like that. And there was two guys who robbed somebody else's store. Yeah, his cousin's store. His cousin's store or whatever. And then he sent you guys after them. No, we went, he sent us to rob his cousin's store because his cousin was. robbing him.

But weren't there... It was taking his business. Weren't there two guys that... At one point in the documentary, I remember, they're asking him, what happened to these two guys that robbed your store? And he was like, they're not around it anymore. They're not around anymore.

Franklin and Coke. Franklin and Coke. Right. Yeah. They're not around anymore. What was the story with those guys? I don't know. They're not around anymore.

Is that part of the RICO? Actually, I don't think so, but let's just say yes. I don't know. They're not around anymore. But you were the one who chased them down. We got them. You got them. them and they're not around anymore.

I don't know about that part. Oh, okay. Yeah, but I was told they're not around anymore. Okay. I mean, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, but I was told they're not around anymore. But I didn't have anything to do with that part of it. Oh, okay.

No, I found them. But I, so I found somebody. Yeah, I found him. He's over here. Got it. And you just told him where they were. Yeah. Oh, I understand.

Yeah, they're here. So that guy was making $100,000 a week in profit only. How much time did he? eat. Do you know? I know he did eight years initially. So, and he said he wasn't sure. He said he was charged with money laundering, not cocaine. Oh.

Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I didn't read papers, but that's what he said. And we've spoken. I speak to him every couple days. Do you really? What's he doing now? He's running a lottery mat.

He's rolling cigars. He's rolling in. He's rolling. He's rolling. Are you serious? What does that say? The 75. Right, it's a cigar.

The mind of Brooklyn, land of fuck. Brooklyn's the land of fuck? It says welcome to the land of fuck. Why is it the land of fuck? Explain that. What does that mean? Okay, so in the movie, that term was used. Yeah.

So, you know, that's why we put that on the t-shirt and the cigar label. So is he still in Brooklyn? Is he still in New York? No, he's been deported to D.R. Oh, he's deported. His family has a tobacco plantation. in Dominican Republic. Wow.

The largest, second largest, Palma, Palma, tobacco. And who's the other guy? What was his name, Chino? Chico? I mean, Chico. I mean, chickie.

Chicky. No, the other guy, the other guy who had the small little baby cartel. The small little drug gang. The first guy you started working for it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh.

Yeah, he's dead. Is he really dead? Yeah, they killed him. His own people killed him. Oh, my God. I'm trying to think, what the fuck is his name? Anyway, yeah.

His name was like Chico or something. And his gang. I can remember. I'm getting old. His gang was called the company. La Campania. La Campania. Yeah.

Yeah. I pulled him over. Yeah. First day. You pulled him over after you found out. He put a hit on me. He put a hit on me. And how did you find out that he put a hit on you?

Well, first of all, he put a hit on me because he shorted me $700. And so I made it known that I wasn't happy about it. That he should come up with the $700. And he said, you know, fuck you. I'm not paying you. I said, okay. That's fine. and then I put pressure on the store for about three days.

I would park in front of his store. I'd chase his customers. I paid another bunch of cops sit in front of his store for a fucking four or five nights when I wasn't there and chase him and bother all of the clients. And then all of a sudden, my pager goes off 911. You know, we had pagers back then beepers. And it's Barron's shop.

And I said, what's up? He doesn't usually page me, especially 911. And he says, you got to come see me. I said, all right, I drove in. to see him, I was on my way to work, four to 12. And he said to me, put a hit on you. I said, who? And he said, the fuck is that kid? Chico. Chino.

Chino, Chino, yeah. Chino, put a hit on you. And I said, okay. And I turned out, my four to 12 shift, I had this female partner, I think, with me. And I said to her, hold on, I got to pull his car over. I never saw this car in my life. But I knew what his car looked like, because I was tall.

So I just took a guess. This is his car. It was near a store. Within a block of a store up by Norwood and Fulton, if people, anybody listens, Norwood and Fulton by the elevated drain, by the station, the empty, where the staircase comes down.

I pulled him all over. I said license registration. He's reaching like, he doesn't know, he doesn't know that I want to kill him. He doesn't know that I want to kill him right now. And I'm hoping to see a gun. Aren't you freaked out this guy's, like, super fucking violent

yeah let's start sprained let's go I'm here so I'm looking in his car and I'm looking to see if he opens his glove park there's a gun in the car

I'm killing him really I'm killing him I'm not gonna what would you do guys just said he's gonna put it on you right so I'm killing him and so he

takes he gives me his license like you know hey what's my license registration insurance car I take it from him and I look at him and I throw it in his fucking lap I said you put a fucking hit on me, motherfucker.

He looks like me, oh, my, he turned as white as, I don't see it, as white as a fucking t-shirt. And so, anyway, so I told him, you know, why don't you get out of the car? Oh, I'm skinny. Oh, sorry. Would you a splinter? No, just my bony, fucking Elmo. So I said, once you get out of the car, we'll do it right here.

You put a fucking hit on me? Let's do it right here, broad daylight, you and me. I said, we'll do a fucking Mexican fucking walk off. Let's go. Shoot out. Yeah, fucking okay corral, motherfucker. Let's go. And he's like,

I said, you call the fucking hit off right now? Or I'm coming to see you. So I gave him the chance. And he said, all right, all right, all right. I left. I got my beeper. My beeper goes off about 20 minutes later. He called up.

He pulled the hit off. Meanwhile, the fucking precinct knew. And never told me. The precinct knew there was a hit on me. How would they know? They got snitches everywhere, bro. The feds were in that organization somewhere. What the fuck?

And they never fucking told me. You remember in the movie? Joe, this guy, Detective Joe Halls in the back of a van. And they came out of the street sweepers. Yeah. Well, there was a guy in that van that was pointing out all the organizational people because it was a snitch for them. They knew that they put a hit on me and never told me.

That's fucked up. Well, they didn't want me, I guess, around. That's fucking wild, man. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy that you, at such a young age, were able to, I mean, develop that that street mentality to be able to coexist with these guys and work with them and make money with them. And like even how the one guy that runs the rolls of cigars who was talking about you, he was like, yeah, I can talk to this guy and he was just like me. Is that a compliment?

I don't know if that's a compliment. Well, yeah, well, he's a street guy. You know what I mean? Like he's a New York guy. I can talk with him. I can, you know, hustle, bustle. with him and he's not like a normal cop. Well, it is. I think if you show vulnerability,

and I mean by that, I mean, you take risk. Like, if you take risk, people accept you more, right? So, for me to have the balls to come up to somebody and say, you know, like, I'll give you a funny example. I was working in the 7-5 with my partner at the time. His name was Jerry.

We pulled this car over, 280 ZX, maroon. Back then, that was the hottest cars, you know. It was maroon or burgundy color 280 ZX. I pulled him over and I go to Tost the car because I know he's

bugged you look because that's their car and I tossed the car I can't find it and he's looking at me he's like sweating his fucking balls off I says I'm all right you're good this time you know

and I let him go and now I get transferred to Coney Island remember I told you I got transferred to Coney Island okay so I'm welcome to beat in Coney Island and this Hispanic guy a little short stocky guy

who says hey Batman and Robin I don't know who to fuck Batman and Robin are it's me and my part That's our nickname to them, right? So I go, who's Batman and Robin? He goes, well, he's Batman because he's taller to me, and you're Robin. I go, okay, what's up?

He goes, you guys are in the wrong precinct. So, oh, you're really smart, you know, because cops take their numbers from their old precinct and put it on their gun belt. So if you see it back in the day, you take your, put your new numbers on your shoulders. So 6-0 precinct because that's Coney Island. And I put my 7-5 numbers on my gun belt. I said, you saw my fucking gun belt numbers. He goes, no, you pulled me over.

And the 280 ZX, I said, Burgundy. He goes, yeah. I said, the back trunk, he goes, yeah, because it was a hatchback. Yeah. He said, you missed it. There was 10 kilos in there. I said, you motherfucker. He says, all you had to do is pull that fucking, the mold.

There's a, like, a plastic mold or, like, a cardboard mold off to the wheel well. He said, it was in the wheel well. I said, you motherfucker. Jesus. When you come back to the 7-5, I got something for you. Oh, yeah? What do you mean by that? Like, I want to work with you.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. He says, I said, I said, why? He said, because you never try to lock nobody up. You just want some money. So I said, you fucking motherfucker, you got me right. He said, we used to call the police. We used to call 911 to see who shows up.

And when you and your partner were working, we knew we were good for the night. That's how fucking criminals work, right? That's amazing. They would check on themselves and see who's going to roll up. So anyway, so yeah, that's what it's like, you know. Yeah, I think cops are a different breed nowadays than what they were back then. Yeah, they're different. Especially around here.

I don't know how much time you spend in Florida. Yeah, I mean, they're nice guys. They're nice guys. Yeah, they are nice guys. I mean, fair. They're fair. Yeah. They're fair.

I find them squared away, you know, military-ish. More on the lines of military than, you know, that approach to things, you know. But, you know, once you let them let their guard down a little bit, they're human like everybody else, you know. Which is the truth. I mean, you know, tomorrow your brother's a cop. You know, your uncle's a cop. Or your aunt's a cop, right? Right.

You know, well, your neighbor. Yeah, it's not a job that I envy. I mean, especially nowadays. Yeah. With the spotlight shining on everybody and all the phones and everything. Well, so that's funny because you bring the spotlight. I was the first advocate. Of course, no one listens to me

because I'm a dirty, rogue, fucking corrupt cop. I was the first advocate behind every cop should wear a fucking camera. Really? Yeah, every cop should wear a camera. Well, because you keep you honest. Yeah. On those moments where you...

Because people, don't forget, human beings put these uniforms on, right? So it keeps you honest. And most times, cops do the right thing. Most times. Like 99% of the time. right thing. I mean, you might not like what they did. You might not have wanted to be arrested, but it's an ugly situation. In any, in any respect, if a, if a patron or a perpetrator doesn't

want to get arrested, it's going to get ugly. Right. So, you're asking a human being to do the job of a machine. That just, you know, that doesn't really... Yeah, the cops are humans, too. Yeah. You know, if you spit in my face, I do want to knock your fucking teeth out. Right, right. You know, I, just as a man, Right? So, you know, that guy's is still a man. You're just spit in his fucking face. I mean, I don't know how they do it today.

He's throwing rocks and bricks and fucking urine and shit at the cops. I saw a video the other day. My father-in-law was a show. My father-in-law was like a really, he used to work for one of the big, this place called S-R-T around here that sold a lot of the guns and the body armor to a lot of the local law enforcement. Law enforcement around here.

He showed me a video of this guy. charging a police officer the cop shoots him at least 11 or 12 times and the guy's still going and eventually he hits him like the 13th time and he finally like drops to his knees yeah not done not done yet though

never seen anything like that man fucking zombie yeah but um good luck yeah no I'm being a cop dude I mean how about the scene we saw you saw the one with the uh the police officer comes out of his patrol car the young black heavy set black girl goes to

stab a girl on the ground and then goes to stab the girl against the car who's just standing there. Right. And the cop shoots her and he's a scumbagged low-life piece of shit. Right. Yeah, that's the problem with the internet, though.

That's like, I agree that the cameras are a great thing because it keeps you honest, right? It keeps you honest and you can't lie about what happened also. The problem is that once you throw that into something like Twitter, then

it's just tribalism at its worst. You know what I mean? Everyone wants to pick their like, okay, before I make my, before I form my opinion on this, what side am I on? Well, yeah. Well, if you start out on a side, then you're really... That's the problem. You're never...

There's going to be a problem, right? Right. So, you just, I, like, picture me. I was a cop. So I favor the cops normally. But I've been arrested by police officers, okay? So I know how to be a little more exacting and judgmental of their actions. So, you know, I always say that I think I'm one of the better critics.

of policing and police work. So if I'm telling you what's going on is correct or it's okay, take it from a guy who's been arrested several times, okay? And I didn't like any one of them. But, you know, I did put my hands behind my back eventually because I knew that I was submitting to being arrested for something that I did. You know, I'm not saying I was guilty of said crimes,

but, you know, I mean, it wasn't pretty when they came to arrest me. I'll just say that much. I wanted to fucking kill them. I mean, yeah. Because they arrested me at work the first time, And then the second time they arrested me, I was out on bail. And didn't they storm your house then? Yeah.

Yeah. And all they did was call me in. That's all they did they do. They did Roger Stone me. They put the fucking helicopter, the fucking speedboats and every fucking thing else. Dogs, searchlights. They beat your ass when they did that? They rough you up a little bit?

No. I've heard a lot of stories about drug dealers getting their ass kick when they get the doors beat down. I had one guy in here saying they almost got, he got, they beat his head. into a pulp when they, with a, this guy who was an ecstasy kingpin in Arizona.

Oh, I mean, you might get a beaten. Yeah. Whatever. I don't know. Whatever. It's life. They say,

it's a couple of hard knocks here and there. What are you gonna do? Yeah, but if you, if you, if you, if you comply with them,

you would think that I shouldn't get my ass beat no, you should, I'm compliant. I agree. Just like, 100%.

You should not get your ass beat if you comply. Thank you. You're correct. It should never happen. Do you think a problem is a lot of people Was he complying?

Was that gentleman complying when he? Yeah, I think so. Okay. At least he said he was. All right. Maybe he was. That was his story. No, no, no.

And he very well could have been. Because I know some guys that just felt so amped up. Like, they got to meet justice right here. I mean, dude, this is your job. Just do it. Just do it right. Have the guy say that they treated me like a gentleman. So, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah. That's my opinion. I used to buy them beer and fucking chicken. There was a guy. I'm sure you know who he is. Jocko Willink. He talked, when he,

I heard him talk about police reform and, and the problem in like the police world right now. And it's that, like, he compares it to when he was overseas, uh, serving in the Marines, um,

or he was a Navy SEAL, I think he was a Navy SEAL or a Marine. Anyways, he would say like when they would go into these foreign countries or whatever, their job was to basically integrate with the, with the, with the civilians and with everybody. And basically talk to everybody,

figure out what's going on. And basically, be like a communication hub for them, like talk to them, be friends with them, and try to like solve or complete a mission. So for example, if it's a crack infested neighborhood, the cops should what?

I don't know. I'm just asking. I have no fucking clue. Right. I'm just, so we have that. Yeah. We've had that.

We have, we call community policing. We have, um, outreach offices, you know, school offices. Right. The problem is, is never enough.

Right. You know, and the real world is dangerous. It's not like a book, you know, because the one guy that's running the neighborhood's drug spot wants to make the money and you people don't want the traffic that he's bringing. But if he knocks off one or two of your neighbors,

everybody shuts the fuck up. It starts to get real. What they say, it's nothing like getting punched in the face when you walk into a ring. Oh, this is a real fight, you know? Right. So things change, you know, well that practice is over now.

Yeah, but I think, I mean, he was talking more about, he was talking about, like, befriending people and trying to get people to trust him, especially in those communities overseas and in these foreign nations, like Iraq, like Iraq and Afghanistan or whatever. And, you know, you compare that to, I mean, the most famous incident, I think,

is like the Trayvon Martin incident, where you had the ex-cop walking down, the kid, the kid was walking to the grocery store he was walking to a house or something like that. Right, right. In Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like chasing him down.

Like, hey, hey, what are you going? The guy was a civilian, an armed civilian. Right. With a little bit of a, I think he had a peace officer status. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I think the point is, I think the point he was, Jocko was making that time.

Listen, the guy, the guy did nothing wrong. Right. He just overstepped his bounds. Who did, the guy who shot him? Yeah. Right. He overstepped his bounds. He overstpped that.

And they got in a fight. They got a tuzzle. And that's it. You're done. Now I'm killing you. And he's getting shot. Yeah. That's unfortunate.

Right. He made a mistake then, Trayvon. Right. The other guy didn't. The mistake he made was confronting Trayvon. You just let him go and call the police. That's it. Right.

That's why they have 911. But the fact that he got involved, at that point it's changed. The kid would still be alive if he wouldn't have. If he didn't fight with the guy and just said, okay, I'll comply away for the police to come. Right. Exactly. I mean, he might have been the nicest guy in America. Yeah.

But when someone's armed and they're making a sort of, his arrest, they have a choice to protect themselves too. And he was tuning this fucking guy up. Don't get just that. He was getting tuned to fuck up. The 17-year-old kid, whatever he was. He was beating his ass. He was beating the fuck out of this guy. Guess what? If I got a gun on me, that means it's your gun now. So I ain't giving it up. Yeah, but you instigated

the shit. You started the fight, motherfucker, and now you're getting your ass kicked. Now you're going to kill the kid. No, no. You're going to take my gun and kill me. That's all that matters now. You're beat my fucking ass. Now you're going to take me and shoot me with my own fucking gun. That's the problem.

That's where the problem is. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, well, that's what I'm telling you, okay? That's the problem. The problem was he overstepped his bounds and stopped Trayvon. Instead of just calling the police and said, he just ran through the back door over there, whatever.

You know, I have the police confront them. Instead of doing that, when he stepped out there and tried to be a citizen police officer, Trayvon now his actions ended up causing his death. the other guy's actions cause the incident Trayvon's actions caused his death because if you're getting your ass pummeled by somebody and you have a gun it becomes their gun

do you not connect to that? I get it. So that's why he used deadly physical force to stop him. So what's called? No retreat law or something? You don't have to retreat or you don't have to fucking get your dick blown off if you, you know,

if the guy's fucking got you down and choking you out, You let him kill you. Right. Yeah, I guess the fucked up part is, like, what was the reason he was chasing the guy down? You know, the guy didn't do anything wrong. I don't know. He just looked suspicious to him, I guess.

He's wearing a hoodie. So he should, like I said, call the police. Don't confront him. Or try to talk to it. You know, even like confronting him. Yeah. At least maybe try to communicate, like verbal. Yeah, I don't think it was working with him.

He was sneaking around. You know what I mean? He wasn't trying to talk to the guy. Like, hey, man, what's going on? What are you up to? Like, what are you going? Yeah, I don't know. Where are you headed?

You know what I mean? Like, like, I feel like advanced communication skills or even... Well, this guy isn't a cop, too. Right, that's true. This guy's a civilian who has a little, I think he had a little training as a peace officer. So he's not a local cop. He has a little training. So now he's got a gun.

Right. And now he's put himself in a position to be the hero, and now he's a fucking zero. And someone's dead. So, I mean, but that's life. You know, if someone burglarizes your house. Of course. Right? Right.

And they're in there doing a good job on it, and you go to stop them, and they start tuning you up. Right. You know, you reach for Uncle Sam under the fucking drawer, and you fire a shot at him. You're probably going to get arrested. Right. You're probably going to get arrested. Right.

But should you? Right. I think the point I'm trying to get to when I originally brought it up was, like, Jock was saying, to become someone that he was, to become a Navy SEAL, you have to go through what's called Hell Week, which is basically the most brutal fucking training that is created to break humans, right? And if you want it bad enough to make it. make it through that, you can get this job.

Right. Right. So is that what every cop should do you think? So is every, yeah, every cop should do every cop. No, I'm going to tell you. Here's your answer. I'm going to give you the answer. His point was they should go through more or they should have to want it more or they should

be more accountable. Okay. So good. I'm going to give everybody an answer that I gave people 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago now. Send them to prison first. What's that going to do? Send a cop to prison first.

Start him out in prison. Then who the fuck wants to do? Then no one's going to want to be a cop. Well, we're going to have no cops, Mike. We don't have any of that. Start a cop out in prison. If he makes it through a week of prison, he'll understand what it's like to violate someone's rights.

He'll understand what it's like to the severity of putting a handcuffs on somebody. And, I mean, so for a cop to put the handcuffs on you, it's nothing for him. It's his job. But what he's just done has changed your life, reprimably, maybe forever. And he needs to understand, or she, the magnitude of the decision that they're making

and what they're doing to somebody. Because watching someone's family grow up through pictures, as you watch them watch their family grow up through pictures, could sort of put a little sense of humanity into what you're dealing with because cops often don't see humanity when they see a criminal. They see a crime. And they treat that person in a relationship to the crime that's committed. So someone shoots somebody and kills them.

They're a murderer, right? But maybe they just defended themselves. Well, maybe last week, the guy raped his daughter or tried to fuck his mother and so on and so forth. So now you just saw someone shoot and execute somebody. But you know what? Is he really that bad of a human being? The guy who had his daughter on his lap and was trying to fuck his daughter yesterday.

You know? So how bad is this guy? guy today. Yeah, no, I mean, everybody, when you bring morality into it and reason for putting someone in prison, obviously, you know, there's going to be nuance. But I think when it comes to, like, how experienced you are, how trained you are, and whatever it is with using weapons or defending yourself. And if you've never done it and you get into a fight with somebody, you should be able

to fucking win the fight without having to blow someone's head off. Well, you go ahead and fight, what's his name, that just knocked out 12 people with one shot. Who is that? The guy from Miami, the Mazda Val. Go ahead and fight Mazda Val, trained cop. Good luck, all right? If you don't have six of you, you got a problem, all right?

Exactly. So, yeah, so, yeah. And all cops should be better trained. Yes, I agree. But you got to understand. They're trying to turn cops out at a rate. In 22 weeks, they're trying to make you a cop, okay? Yeah.

So in that time, they're teaching you law, social science, vaginal work, whatever the fuck they put cops through today. Whatever, whatever. I don't know. You're supposed to be medical doctors.

You know, you fucking teach people to breathe. You don't get laid. I don't know. We're social workers. So all the stuff they got to learn in the next

22 weeks. And then you've got to teach them to be an expert fighter. Go ahead. Have at it. You know what I mean? And don't forget, these are people

that are getting paid as value by your city. Good luck. At the end of it, we're going to attach a GoPro to you. Good luck. Go ahead.

I'm at it, you know. And meanwhile, you're still 103 pounds. What the fuck? You know, you have 5 foot four. You're 103 pounds. You got a 22 inch way. You're a dime piece, but people want to fuck you, but you can't fight your way out of what paper bags, me, I'm sorry.

Not only that, we're going to pay you. Not only that, we're going to pay you $40,000 a year. Yeah, right. So let's go see what happens. Let's see how it turns out. Yeah. So there's a lot of reality. That's not a good luck.

Yeah. I mean, so it would be nice if comps would give more self-defense classes. I would say if they spent 40% of their time in self-defense classes rather than all the other shit they deal with Yeah my friend Jimmy You want to answer it? No Okay

Tell him I'm Yeah So right Was Jimmy in the documentary? No He's got his own documentary He's got his own documentary Actually he was at a wedding for Blanco

The Blanco Grisel de Blanco Yeah he was at their wedding the day And he presented them with a painting from Maserati, how do you say his name? Masachi? Yeah, Jimmy Vegas. We call him Jimmy Vegas.

Because he's from Florida. No, he's from Ohio, move to Florida, then move to Vegas. So for some reason, his name is Jimmy Vegas. But he's a pretty talented artist. And so at Blanco's wedding this week, yeah, this week. Which Blanco is it, do you know? The guy, the son. The son of, the son of the mother?

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, he had a big wedding and he's got a reality show. Does he really? Yeah, I don't know. I'm so out of the week. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. He's got like 5 million views every week on a reality show on TV.

And he got married. And in the wedding on TV, he was a real wedding. He really got married. He presented them with one of his pieces of art for their wedding gift. Jeez. Yeah, so it was pretty interesting. Some interesting characters out there. You know, we've run into a lot of different people, right?

That's pretty fucking wild. Yeah, it's pretty cool. At what point did, uh, at what point did, uh, Tiller What's his name? Tiller Russell. At what point did he reach out to you and say he wanted to make this movie about you?

Yeah, so I was in 2012. Okay, I was at that time I was home eight years. You're already out? Yeah. Yeah, I was home eight, nine years, eight years. And so I was in a car. The girl I was with at the time, her phone rang. Some guy, she thought it was my book agent.

I go, what the fuck does he want? He hasn't got me, he hasn't got me a publisher yet. to do the book or writer. And so it turned out it was, I thought it was Jeff Schmidt. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, Tilla Russell. And I go, who are you?

And how do you get this number? Like, it's not even my number. How'd you get this number? And, and, uh, it's funny because he would go on to repeat that. Same verbiage that I'd used on him. The next four people he calls said the same exact thing. He said, but they all followed it up with one other thing. What did Mike say?

day. So, yeah, so he calls up and he flies in from L.A. and he meets me and I put him in a car with me and I drive him around and just telling some stories. And I said, if you do what I tell you, you're going to have a real fucking, you're going to have good fellas in the police department. I said, this would blow good fellas away if you do it right. Of course, it was a documentary.

It wasn't a movie. But so he goes, oh, really? I said, yeah. So he goes, tell me, tell me. So I run off a few stories and he's fucking got jizz falling out the side of his fucking mouth and he's on the phone with this guy, Eli Holstman in L.A. He says, we got a fucking star. And I'm like, what?

We got a star. Eli, are you listening to me? Yeah, he goes, I go, who's the star? He goes, you. I said, what do you mean? He goes, we've been working on this documentary for six months already. I said, what? I said, and you came to see me at the end?

He goes, well, we've just changed the whole thing just now. I go, really? So then I helped them design. So they retooled their whole project based around you? They spent the half a million dollars. And documentaries don't spend that kind of money. But in this case, they already got it a half a million dollars in. And then after meeting me, they said, forget everything we fucking did.

Forget about it. We got it all, do it all over. Then they had to reach out to the producers for more money. And they went on and they put together. And so the 75 documentary. was put together it sat on the shelf for almost two and a half years

they're just trying to get it right and they fucked it up fucked it up they fucked it up and they had guys like all the I can't get the other names P. Diddy and all these guys

they would meet and they video like in L.A., they do trial runs in front of people in the industry to see what they Yeah, yeah yeah like a focus group

Yeah exactly and so anyway and they all help each other out by doing it. And so anyway, so many, many people had seen the rough draft. And they had it at three hours at that time. They were looking at three hours at that time. So one of the guys, and I could be saying the wrong names, so I don't want to say

the names. But one of the guys who's in the industry turned around and said, more him and less the others, okay, meaning me. So I guess. So, P.S., so they cut it down to an hour and whatever, 40 minutes. and I was amazed by it, but they did a really good job. But there was 158 versions.

158 full-length versions of the 7-5. Oh, my God. That's a lot of fucking editors. A lot of fucking work in that thing. So I'm really disappointed. I would say there's probably 156 better ones than the one they let go. Really?

Because the shit on the cutting room floor would make your hair stand up. Yeah. So it was fucking credible. And who ended up buying it? IFC, all three media produced it with some financing from others. And they sold it to IFC. That IFC, which is a shit organization, ended up...

That's fucking, I don't even heard of IFC. Yeah, they're independent film company. They're part of AMC. Okay. They're the subsidiary of AMC. They put no money into promoting it zero. Really? Like they put $10,000 in the budget to promote it.

I did all the promotion, basically. And so it didn't... That seems dumb. It should have been... It should have got the award. It should have got the Academy Award for the best documentary. Yeah. It should have.

No, it should have. 100% should have. Not because I was in it. Not because I was... It was great. No. It should have. Incredible fucking story.

It should have got the... What happened was it got lost in this small film festival in Manhattan. It didn't make it to Sundance. And then after they agreed to take it, this little small shit for show in the West Village, Sundance called the next week and said, we want it. And they said, well, we already committed.

I'm like, fuck that. Sundance is where you want to. They said, listen, you can't get a bad name in the industry. If you're back out of these little film festivals, I don't give a fuck about the next film. I forget about this film. Whatever. I got no control, you know?

Right. So they didn't go to Sundance. If you don't go to Sundance, you're not getting a fucking, you're not getting a guy. Yeah, that's what I mean, let these fucking nerdy little industry cucks try to dictate your,

if you would have been in charge look motherfucker i was the one making all this money dealing with on the streets like if you want someone to sell this thing it's me motherfucker and i'm still selling it i'm still selling it and what the fuck are they doing nothing nothing nothing nothing fucking me god damn shame they're fucking me are you're at least getting paid not i got them are they paying you i'm supposed to get paid if they haven't turned to profit they said for three years on netflix they haven't turned to profit yeah that's the problem I think that industry, I think the big film music industries, television industries, they're all corrupt. They're on their way out.

Right. They're corrupt. They're on their way out because they fuck over artists. They fuck over talent. Right. And they're infamous for fucking over talent. Right. Tons of do.

Go to Netflix. You watch a thousand documentaries like that that expose music industry, the film industry, the TV entertainment industries for doing this. Right. And because of that, because of all this light being shined on it, they're on their way out. now like people like you artists talent people who have great stories they're creating their own platforms on things like youtube or anywhere else they tell it and then and they build their own platform and the audience is what dictates right what they do yeah well this is what i'm working on right now so we'll see what happens it's just it's tough when you're a solo band you know you know you

know i'm not together with the other guys doing it you know if if if i could get on board with each other and we could pull our funding and and maybe we can do something bigger together but you know you're thinking about doing something like you're doing something like like this, just a talk show? No, well, this is, this I'm, this I'm going to do. I just, I, I want to have it, I don't want to go half cocked, okay? I don't want to do a studio or a podcast that's lacking. I want to have everything in a podcast that, that you have in a podcast.

You know, I want to have a guy working with me in a booth. I want to do the editor. I want the cameras. I want the system setup. I don't want to go, like, off the phone like some people do and just have, I just don't, I just don't, I want to be real, you know, I want to, want to be impactful. Yeah, a lot of people say that. I've had a lot of guys on here that say that.

and it hinders them from getting started. It does. It does. It has. I actually was involved in a short podcast that was set up like this for about six episodes. It was called The Mike and the Mike show. And it really was very good because I was a big part of it. And it was a good feed off the guy that I was working with.

He was basically the straight man. And I had like five or six episodes we did. And was it like one of those edited podcasts with music where it tells a story? No, no. It was just him and me kicking. talking about the day talking about the day and it was pretty pretty cool really yeah we'd talk about the day and then we'd do some analogies from synopsis from my past and connect with today and tomorrow and and just just kicked it you know talked about you know the air conditioning unit not working

oh yeah you know I I plugged one up you know yeah I don't think the air condition is working in here it's hot as fucking here right now well uh where can people on the listening or watching on YouTube where can they find your are you what are you what are you pushing so right now I'm just doing I'm really just, so I have the cigar line that's, that's been still available. It's just, I haven't, I haven't, what it is, is there's some issues getting stuff from the DR to hear because it's a very high tax. So, but, you know, if people were interested in getting some cigars, they can contact me through Instagram, Twitter or Facebook, you know, the Mike Dowd on Instagram and Twitter and Mike, DOWD, yeah, or Michael Dowd on Facebook and stuff like that. I'm really not pushing much, right, and right now

I'm looking to get my screenplay done. And I'm looking to get my author, my book done. I've almost had it done three times now. It's really getting exhausting. What's stopping you? I've had the authors three times to write it out. And the first author absconded. The next author was no good.

We went to a meeting with all the top publishers and we didn't get the deal done. And then, because he wrote it like a fucking cunt. Anyway, yeah, he wrote it like a bitch. and the other guy who's a pretty good writer, he's got four books published. He's sort of back, and I sat down with it for two months. It's exhausting going over these stories

and, you know, reliving them and the passion and the compassion and the feeling that, you know, you see how I am, I'm gesticulating all over the fucking place when they tell these, because, you know, they come out of your physically these stories. Yeah.

So, and he's got a hundred-page treatment written, and I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. So I got to get the right writer and the right publishing people behind me and get it done. Or I may end up self-righting it. But so, yeah, so screenplay and the book I'm working on. I have, I own my rights to the book and I own my rights to a TV series with first right to refusal going back to the people that are doing the movie. You know, they're doing the movie. Well, so I'm...

That did the movie, the documentary. No, no, no, no, no. No. So I'm working on the movie right now, allegedly, because it's all in development hell. I'm trying to get the screenplay done because they've dropped the ball now five times on the screenplay. Actually six times on the screenplay.

They've had five different screenplays written and no one, it's not catching on, so something's not right. And I don't see any of them. I don't get a chance to see any of them. So I don't know what they're putting out there. But I know what they can put out there

and it'll sell tomorrow. So if they would just come and sit with me and pay me a fucking decent salary to do it with them, it'll be done. That's why I got out of that fucking industry, man. I used to do the same fucking, I used to live in the same nightmare as you. I used to,

that used to be my job. I used to develop TV show concepts and sell, and pitch them to TV networks. And that was the fucking, that was the nightmare of it. Is that you, you push your project onto them. You're the one that knows everything.

You're the one that's on the ground. Right. Right. That's, I was more like the, the filmmaker. I was one of you like package it all, shot it,

edited, whatever. And, and once you, once you pass it off to them, those guys in Hollywood or New York, wherever the hell they are, and they get their hands on it, it's,

it's, you're, They fuck up the whole thing. They fuck up the whole, they botch it. They botch the whole fucking thing. They think they know it all. No better.

Yeah. They think they know it all. They want to take care of their relationships. They think they. Yeah. How about get the fucking product out there? That's good.

Right, right. Get the good product. That's why I got out of it and started doing this. I started putting it all out on YouTube myself. Don't have to answer it to anybody. Fuck them. Are you doing good?

Yeah. I'm doing it. Good. I'm surviving. You surviving. I'm surviving. Yeah. I don't have to worry about about,

about putting a meal on the table. You're feeding the family. Feeding the family. That's what it's all about. And that's a good thing. And that's why I go on shows and not that you need me on your show. But some of the guys,

they have like 800 viewers. I'll go to their show. Just to, so that I remember who I am. Help the little guy. You know, that's what everybody should do. Help the little guy. You know, that's what the life's about. That's what, I mean, whatever.

That's how I was raised. That's good, man. That's noble of you. It costs me a lot of money. Yeah. You don't live in Florida, right? You still live in New York, right? Yeah, I still live in New York, but I have a place down here that I come to several months, like three, four months of the year.

Myrtle Beach, that ain't in Florida. Right here. You got a condo here, motherfucker? No, I have a condo here. Really? Clearwater? Clearwater? I don't have one in Myrtle Beach anymore.

Okay, you sold that one. Oh, the feds took it. Something happened. Thanks for doing this, Mike. I really appreciate it. Yeah. I enjoyed this conversation. I'm glad. I'm glad you had me in. Goodbye, world. Peace.