Dark Downeast - The Suspicious Death of Denise Scott Ramsey (Maine)

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

MAINE, 2021: On Mother’s Day weekend in 2021, skeletal remains were discovered in a shed on private property belonging to a man who had passed away months earlier. Though it would take months for the identity of the body to be confirmed, Danielle McNaughton knew in the pit of her stomach that it was her mother, Denise Scott Ramsey.The circumstances of Denise’s death are suspicious, but will Danielle ever have answers about what happened to her mom? The story took over the headlines that spring, but since then, little has been discussed and little is known about this case. That's why Danielle is on Dark Downeast.View source material and photos for this episode at darkdowneast.com/denisescottramsey Dark Downeast is an audiochuck and Kylie Media production hosted by Kylie Low.Follow @darkdowneast on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTokTo suggest a case visit darkdowneast.com/submit-case

The closer that we get, the more my stomach is just like, I can't even speak. Because if I open my mouth, I feel like I'm going to vomit. My gut will scream at me when something's wrong. And my gut was bellowing from the void, something is wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong. On Mother's Day weekend in 2021, skeletal remains were discovered in a shed on private property belonging to a man who had passed away months earlier. Though the identity of the body wouldn't be confirmed until that summer, Danielle McNaughton knew in the pit of her stomach that it was her mother, Denise Scott Ramsey. The circumstances of Denise's death are suspicious, but will Danielle ever have answers about what happened to her mom? The story took over the headlines that spring, but since then, little has been discussed and little is known about the case. And that's why

Danielle is on Dark Down East, to bring attention to her mother's story. And she shares it with us under one condition, that you listen without judgment and with an abundance of compassion. It's something she says her mother never received in her lifetime. I'm Kylie Lowe, and with Danielle McNaughton, this is Denise Scott Ramsey's story on Dark Down East. At the time of this episode's original release date in February of 2023, no one has been arrested or charged with any crime as it relates to the death of Denise Scott Ramsey. All names referenced in this episode are in the public record. The first thing that was abundantly clear to me about Danielle McNaughton is that this woman

is tough. She takes no BS, tells it like it is, and she is a fierce protector of the people she loves, her children, her husband, and her is a fierce protector of the people she loves, her children, her husband, and her late mother, Denise Scott Ramsey. All of those traits were on full display as she began to tell me about her mom. My relationship with my mother was very complicated, and my childhood was not the best. I am an only child. I'm the only child that Denise ever had, which is probably a good thing. I can be honest in saying that when I was a little kid, I adored my mother. I loved her. There was nothing really that she could do wrong. I just, during that time span, things weren't always perfect. But I do remember that there was a lot better moments where she was momming better.

You know, she went through periods in her life with parenting where there were times where she was very there. She was very hands-on. She was the best mom ever. And then there were times that she was utterly the worst mom ever. And I didn't want to be around her. My childhood with her was hard. It was abusive, emotionally, physically, mentally. It was traumatic. It was simultaneously probably the best and worst time, if I'm being honest. It's a strange feeling to love a parent as much as you do and also at the same time realize that they may not have always been a good parent. It's hard because I want to be as truthful as possible, but I feel like people aren't going to understand at the same time. I just hope that a lot of unhealed people out here don't judge her too harshly because if it's anyone's job to feel anything about this woman,

it is mine and mine alone. I've been in therapy for 10 years myself, and it has helped me tremendously because I don't think that I would be able to do this. If I hadn't been in therapy, I don't think I would have been able to handle the loss of my mother. I don't think I would be even halfway as decent of a parent as I am now if I hadn't gotten myself into therapy because there is just so much trauma and baggage but I am trauma informed now and if there is anything my mom had in abundance besides her her her love for me and that's the crux of it. She had an overwhelming amount of trauma.

Danielle told me the stories she'd heard about her mother's childhood, plagued by alleged physical and emotional abuse, as well as molestation, abandonment, and neglect. These experiences, Danielle knows now, informed her mother's life and her choices and how she parented. But at her core, Denise wanted to be a good mom and a good person. The things that my mom has been through and to still be as decent as she was nearing the end of her life is a big deal. Part of Denise's challenges in motherhood and in life in general stemmed from her battle with substance abuse disorder.

My mom was an addict. That's one thing we really just have to get out of the way. She was an addict for a very long time. She was a functioning addict for the majority of it. She clearly had mental health issues and she was trying to medicate herself in a way so that she could function. Danielle told me that her mother's struggles with substance abuse disorder really spiraled after a foot injury. Her physician, a former Portland podiatrist named John B. Perry, prescribed or gave Denise opiates in excessive amounts.

Danielle told me that Denise spent a lot of time with this man, outside of whatever medical care he may or may not have provided her. It should be noted that the physician, Perry, was later found to be writing prescriptions in exchange for cash and cocaine. In 2013, he was charged with conspiracy, unlawful distribution of oxycodone, and healthcare fraud. He pleaded guilty to the charges and was sentenced to eight years in prison. He is no longer a licensed physician. So he was a big catalyst as to why my mom's addiction really amped up because somebody was literally feeding her pills. And then she got clear of that for a while and things were sort of okay. Danielle explained that the last 15 or so years

of her mother's life were the most challenging years for Denise and for their relationship as mother and daughter. The tipping point was one summer when Danielle was 16 years old. Denise was trying to put her to bed at 7 p.m. so she could go across the bridge, something Danielle knew to mean she would be buying or using drugs. Denise was also asking for money out of Danielle's paycheck each week, and Danielle knew why her mom wanted the money. Danielle challenged her mother in that moment and called Denise out on her drug use, something Danielle told me, you did not do. You did not challenge Denise. The altercation escalated. Danielle packed a bag and called police to help her leave safely and without further incident. That night, Danielle's grandfather picked her up from

the police station until she figured out her next move. She ended up moving in with her then boyfriend and his family. She would be in and out of Denise's home and her life throughout the remainder of high school. So from there, it really kind of spiraled out of control for her because one of the things that I believe was really sort of helping my mom stay grounded as much as she could be was the responsibility of me. But as I got older and I was needing less from her in that way, you know, that more hands-on, more whatever, she found that she could have more freedom. And I don't necessarily know if that was a good thing for her because the more freedom she had, the more responsible she got. The years that followed were tumultuous for their relationship,

but during the times that Denise was good, she was really good. When she was clear-minded and she was not around people that could influence her or give her stuff or anything else, you never wanted to be anywhere else but with else. You never wanted to be anywhere else but with Denise. You never wanted to be anywhere else. She was funny. She was personable, charming. She was, you know, just being around her felt like a hug. In December of 2019, Denise was living with her father, Douglas Scott Sr., at his home on Poland Spring Road in Casco, Maine.

Danielle told me that Denise moving in with her grandfather, Denise's father, concerned her, given the turbulent history of their relationship, but it was the best option for both of them at the time. Denise helped take care of him and the house as his health began to decline, and she had a place to stay in return. At the time, Danielle and Denise were on an upswing together. Motivated by her children who wanted a relationship with their grandmother, Danielle was working on her own relationship with Denise. Danielle lived about two and a half hours away from Casco and didn't have reliable transportation at the time, but they stayed connected over the phone whenever possible. Areas of Casco are quite rural, and cell phone reception at her father's house was not the best, so Denise often had to wait to make a phone call until she could find

a spot with better service. The last time I talked to my mother was right after Christmas. We were texting. She was supposed to call me back when she had a minute to get into the window for better reception, and she never did. That was December 26th, 2019. But Danielle at least expected to hear from her mother a week later for her birthday. My birthday went by, nothing. My mother has never, ever missed saying happy birthday. Sending flowers, balloons, something, never. It's a fucking national holiday to that woman. It was the first sign that something was off.

And then came odd Facebook comments two days after Danielle's birthday. It was like one of the few public posts that I had on Facebook and my mom commented on it, or her Facebook page anyway. And it was like this two paragraph or like two comments worth of like four paragraphs of like just her lighting into me. Saying all the things that would definitely trigger me to not want to talk to her for a while. The comments contained things that Denise would never say to Danielle, not even on the worst days of their relationship. She's telling me I'm everything but human and I regret you and I can't even believe I'm your mother. You regret me? When the fuck has Denise ever said that? Denise always said, you saved my life. You're the first thing that taught me how to love for real. Danielle quickly deleted the comments and tried to put them out of her mind.

The next time she tried reaching out to Denise was a few months later, as the COVID-19 pandemic began to take hold in Maine. So I remember sending a text message to her phone a couple of months after that and saying, you know, I know you're mad at me or whatever, but I don't know what I did. But I hope you're OK with COVID and everything. It's scary. And, you know, I was worried about my mom. She's older. She's in that sort of demographic of being a little older. She had some immune system issues. I was worried, you know, didn't hear nothing. For over a year, each time someone tried to reach out to Denise, they got nothing in response. During the time period that she was missing, nobody knew necessarily that she was.

She had a tendency to sort of take off and be gone for, you know, weeks, months, whatever, and then come back. So, you know, it was very plausible that that's what she did. So nobody really had any idea that she was missing at all. It was rumored that Denise was possibly in Florida, where she had once lived, but the rumor proved to be just that. None of Denise's former contacts in Florida had seen her. When calls to her cell phone went unanswered or straight to voicemail, everyone assumed the phone was dead or the bill wasn't paid or she just ran out of minutes. Danielle shared that she wasn't speaking to

her grandfather during the time that her mother was MIA, but he allegedly called her and left voicemails mentioning that Denise had taken off. My grandfather had called my phone a few times, but I was really no contact with him at that point. So I would let it go to voicemail and he would say stuff like, you know, I don't know when your mom's going to be back. You know, she kind of took off all her shits here, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that. It was no fault of Danielle's to explain away Denise's absence. Everything was in line with her mother's previous behavior. It wasn't until Douglas Scott Sr., Danielle's grandfather, died of COVID-19 on March 4th, 2021, that Denise's absence became glaringly apparent. Doug Sr. died without a will,

so his estate entered the probate process. Denise was one of his heirs, and she had a right to be notified of the proceedings, but no one could find her. At that point, Danielle tried to officially report her mother missing. I called the local police here and they told me that I had to file from the town that she had lived in in Casco. So I called the sheriff's department down there and I was told that they couldn't or wouldn't do a missing persons report. They didn't feel like it was like that. And I had told them, like, the last time I talked to her was the day after

Christmas, December 26, 2019. Like, she was supposed to call me back. She never did. Like, she's usually, yes, she would take off and kind of go on her little binges or whatever, but she always came back. Like, she's been gone too long now. You see what I'm saying? Like, now it's starting to become an issue. What they did instead of a missing person was to put out like a bulletin thing for the East Coast to try to locate her.

That's what they told me. And I was like, well, there's nothing more I can do. And they said, no, there's nothing more you can do. On March 22nd, 2021, Denise's brother, Douglas Scott Jr., was able to file an affidavit with the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office and with the Social Security Administration to report Denise Scott Ramsey missing. The following month, in April of 2021, another of Denise's brothers, Sean, hired a private investigator named Toby Tyner to help track down Denise. The private investigator found out that her phone had been disconnected,

that there was many dead ends. We couldn't really find out anything, much of anything. Danielle told me that the private investigator and her uncle Sean were planning to go to her late grandfather's house in early May 2021 to sift through what remained of her mother's belongings there in hopes that they'd find something, anything that might indicate where Denise had disappeared to. But before they could get there, someone else made a discovery at the Poland Spring Road home.

It was the day before Mother's Day in 2021 when Danielle got a concerning call from her uncle Sean. He wouldn't tell me anything on the phone. He just said, you need to get down here now. I said, here? Where? What are you talking about? He goes, Danielle, you need to get down here now. I said, here? Where? What are you talking about? He goes, Danielle, you need to get your fucking ass in the car and you need to get the fuck down here to Grampy's now. The closer that we get, the more my stomach is just like, I can't even speak because if I open my mouth, I feel like I'm going to vomit. My gut will scream

at me when something's wrong. And my gut was fucking bellowing from the void. Something is wrong. Something's wrong. Something's wrong. We pull up to the side of the road and I don't even get out of the car yet. And right at the bottom of the driveway, I see sheriff's vehicle there. I see my uncle and the private investigator was there that my uncle had hired. And there was some more vehicles up there and there was some lights and things and, you know, crime scene, whatever. So I get out of the car and I walk around and I'm sweating. Like it's just pouring off of me. Like, everybody's got long faces. Everybody's staring at me like I'm going to do something. I don't know.

Her uncle tried to tiptoe around the inevitable, but Danielle just wanted to know. I was like, just tell me what's going on. And then, so finally, he says, well, the police are here because they found your mom. I said, what do you mean they found my mom? He goes, she's up there. She's not okay. I don't even remember being on the ground, but I remember that the, it felt like the entire fucking ground just came out from underneath me. And the next thing you know, I'm sitting there and I'm looking up and I can feel somebody behind me trying to haul me up, but I'm just sitting there on the ground. And I'm just shocked.

What do you say? And then I started screaming. I don't think I was crying. I think I was just screaming. Danielle told me that no one was supposed to be at her grandfather's house other than the personal representative of his estate, her uncle Sean. But Danielle's other uncle, Doug Jr., had been on the property on the afternoon of May 8th, 2021, when he discovered skeletal remains wrapped in a blanket or sheets and concealed inside a shed on the property. Although the remains were unrecognizable, everyone assumed that it was Danielle's mother. From the moment the remains were found, police

called the discovery suspicious, but until formal scientific methods of identification could be used, authorities couldn't say for sure whose remains they were, why they were in the shed, or how long they might have been there, undiscovered. And I remember feeling so surreal. She could still be out there. They don't know that it's her until they know that it's her, right? It could be anybody. Because it wasn't, you couldn't even that it's her until they know that it's her, right? It could be anybody

because it wasn't, you couldn't even tell who it was, you know? It was a small little skeleton. The chief medical examiner would attempt to determine the cause and manner of death, but oftentimes in a case where the remains are skeletal or badly burned or in an advanced state of decomposition, a forensic anthropologist is called in to also perform an autopsy and examination. Marcella Sorg, a research professor at the University of Maine and the primary forensic anthropologist for Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Rhode Island, examined the remains to learn whatever she could. Marcella worked to determine the biological profile of the remains based on standards of age, sex, height, and ancestry

profiles of other bones that had been analyzed. She also analyzed trauma, unique facial structure and features, and medical issues that could give some indication of the deceased's identity. You might think that DNA analysis would be the first step in identifying the remains, but it wasn't that easy. When she was discovered, they thought that it was her because she was the only one that wasn't around, obviously, but they needed to obviously make absolute sure. So I did give the state of my DNA, two DNA tests, but apparently they didn't have enough DNA to work with for that. So they ended up sending those two detectives back.

She had had on a sweatshirt and some leggings, and she had on a couple of pairs of socks. And so even though her clothes were tattered and you know there wasn't any skin or hair really to speak of her ankles and feet for the most part or at least where the socks were covered like like retained that area. And she had a very distinctive tattoo on her ankle. So when they showed me the blown up image of the patch of skin that they were able to remove and then, you know, do that with, I immediately recognized it immediately. The tattoo is a, it's a little heart and it has a rose and a shooting star. And I always knew that tattoo because she'd gotten that for me. She told me that's your heart and the rose is my love for you. And the star is

because you're the star of my life. That's what she told me my whole life. So I'm like, that's my tattoo. I remember being little and poking it and be like, my tattoo. And myself and my 12-year-old son, Ryan, we went through all of her pictures because I knew somewhere I had seen a picture of her. Her leg was showing where that tattoo was. And that would be the thing that they could confirm that that was her identity, that that was her. So we searched and searched and searched. And then like, I don't know,

probably the fifth box that we went through of pictures, my son pulled one out and he goes, mom, is this it? He'd found the photo that gave his grandmother her identity back. That's how we ended up identifying her, was through her tattoo, because they did not have enough to pull DNA. Now that Danielle knew for sure that they'd found Denise, she wanted to know what the hell happened to her mother. It's a question she's still asking to this day, nearly two years later. The circumstances surrounding the death of Denise Scott Ramsey are considered suspicious. It is highly unlikely that she was in the shed and died there,

never to be found until over a year later. It is more likely that she died or was killed elsewhere, and that her body was moved to the shed. That's what I was told, was that it very much looked like she was placed there. Her death is undetermined. They have no cause of death for her autopsy report. I do have the autopsy report. There was no indication of any injury that they could find to her skeleton. So if there had been something that had happened to her body,

she had decayed to the point where you didn't know. So if she bled out, we would never know that. If she was stabbed, we would never know. With the cause of death of Denise Scott Ramsey still labeled undetermined, there's not much else for the investigation to go on. But Danielle feels like the investigation has been operating from a place of assumption, and the assumptions are dead wrong. They don't have a cause of death.

Nobody was there. They think, the detective literally told me, if foul play happened, there's nothing to be done at this point because we believe that your grandfather would have been the one to do something and they're both dead. In an email exchange with Detective Corey Pike, the detective said to Danielle, quote, We have completed our investigation and because the medical examiner could not determine the cause of death and because your grandfather is deceased, we will not be charging anyone with a crime, end quote. Reading between the lines here, the assumption appears to be that Denise's father, Danielle's grandfather, Douglas Sr., is the reason Denise was in that shed. Danielle has all the doubt in the world that her grandfather

could have been solely responsible for whatever happened to her mother. He was in his 80s, with a laundry list of health problems that made physical tasks, like walking up and down the stairs, near impossible. In order to get into the house, it was set up so that you had to go up one flight of stairs to get up to the first level. He couldn't even carry groceries up that. He couldn't even walk up and down that himself without getting winded, carrying nothing but himself. What makes anyone think that he could take a 120-pound body of dead weight and just down the stairs? You can't do that. So how did she end up there?

The question remains, what really happened to Denise Scott Ramsey? And will Danielle and the rest of her family ever find out? I don't think that my mom was never redeemable. I don't think anything like that. I don't think she had a fucking chance to get to that point. And that's the worst thing about it. I think the thing that really was missing for my mom was compassion. Nobody gave her an ounce. And I can even say myself sometimes did not even give her that. And I have been working on forgiving myself for that because that's not my fault. I was a child, so I didn't realize that the woman didn't have compassion.

Thinking back on the memories of their relationship, the good and the bad danielle is finding brighter moments to cling to i think probably the thing that will stay with me forever is one of the last conversations that we had she told me that she was so proud of the mother that i've become and that she's so proud of me for breaking the cycles and just being better than her she told me that she was it was one of those rare lucid moments of hers but she told me I'm so proud of you you have surpassed me in ways that I couldn't even imagine you were a far better parent and mother than I could ever be and I'm so proud of you for that Yoli I just never thought I'd hear anyone say that let alone her because all I ever wanted to do was make her proud because it always felt like

maybe I was a burden or just something too much for her because she just had so much in her life and I wanted to be the thing that made life easier for her. And I think in the end, I probably was the only thing in her life that was easy because no matter what, I always forgave her. I always told her I loved her. I just wish I could have protected her. I always told her I loved her. I just wish I could have protected her. Thank you for listening to Dark Down East. Sources cited and referenced for this episode are listed at darkdowneast.com.

Danielle, thank you for trusting me with your mother's story. Please follow Dark Down East on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. And the best way to support this show is to leave a review and share this episode or any episode with your friends. If you have a personal connection to a case I should cover, please contact me at hello at darkdowneast.com. Thank you for supporting the show and allowing me to do what I do. I'm honored to use this platform for the families and friends who have lost their loved ones and for those who are still searching for answers in cold missing persons and homicide cases. I'm not about to let those names or their stories get lost with time. I'm Kylie Lowe, and this is Dark Down East.