Dark History - 137: The Dark History of Gossip: Cancel Culture Started WAY Earlier Than You Think

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Hi friends, happy Wednesday!  Gossip has played a *VERY* important role throughout history. It brings us together and makes us feel like we know our favorite celebrities or people in power, but it can also tear us apart. But who paved the way for gossip to be what it is today? Well, this is the Dark History of Gossip. I appreciate you for coming by, and tune in tomorrow for more Dark History.  Want some cool Bailey Merch?  Shop Dark History Merch: https://www.baileysarian.com _______ You can find the Dark History podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts, and every Thursday here on my YouTube for the visual side of things.  Apple Podcast- https://www.apple.co/darkhistory Dark History Merch-  https://www.baileysarian.com _______ FOLLOW ME AROUND   Tik Tok: https://bit.ly/3e3jL9v Instagram: http://bit.ly/2nbO4PR Facebook: http://bit.ly/2mdZtK6 Twitter: http://bit.ly/2yT4BLV Pinterest: http://bit.ly/2mVpXnY Youtube: http://bit.ly/1HGw3Og Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3cC0V9d  Discord: https://discord.gg/BaileySarian RECOMMEND A STORY HERE: [e-mail]  Business Related Emails: [e-mail] Business Related Mail:  Bailey Sarian  4400 W. Riverside Dr., Ste 110-300  Burbank, CA 91505 ________ Check out https://www.Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to https://www.squarespace.com/DARKHISTORY to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We have a special deal for our audience: Get your first visit for only five dollars at https://www.Apostrophe.com/DARKHISTORY when you use our code: DARKHISTORY.  Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/DARKHISTORY to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.  Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/DARKHISTORY. 

and has almost $600,000 to her name, but she doesn't stop working. And it's not just because she wanted to keep making money for her cooking. Summer is great and all, but there's always so much pressure to always just be doing something outside or just be doing something.

She's like, oh, we're going to the farmer's market. We're going to the beach. Personally, don't tell anyone, I'm sorry, but I'm not the biggest fan of summer. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know I'm not the biggest fan of summer. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know why? Because I, for one, listen, skin cancer runs in my family, so the sun is really not my friend.

And two, dark spots, they always appear on my face, and quickly, so it's just like a bummer, okay? But look, I should fear the sun no more, because I have apostrophe on my side. The sponsor of today's episode. Hey, okay, yeah, up top. Great, let me tell you, I love what Apostrophe does, because their goal is to help you feel confident

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and you'll get your first visit for only $5. A big thank you to Apostrophe for sponsoring today's episode. Now let's get back to the story. Like I said earlier, men would track her down and have meetings wherever like she was working just so they could eat her famous food. Did you know that one of the first written records of gossip goes all the way back to 1500 BC?

And in the Middle Ages, they believed it was something mainly women did and was considered shameful, even leading to them being burned at the stake. Gossip has played a very important role throughout history. It brings us together and makes us feel like we know our favorite celebrities or people in power. But it can also tear us apart. Gossip feels like just one of those things you just can't avoid.

It's all around us in the checkout counters, at grocery stores, online and in person. But who paved the way for gossip to be what it is today? Well, this is the Dark History of Gossip. Hi friends, I hope you're having a wonderful day today. My name is Bailey Sarian and I'd like to welcome you to my podcast, Dark History. Hi! Here we believe history does not have to be boring. It might be tragic.

Sometimes it's happy, but either way, it's our dark history. Now, before we get into it, don't forget to like and subscribe. Why not? I come out with hot, juicy history goss every week. And let me know what you think down below in the comment section,

because I love hearing from you. Now, let's get into today's story, shall we? Now, gossip has been around since the dawn of time. And the word gossip actually comes from the old English word, god-sib. Now, god meaning godparent and sib meaning sibling. So this word was used to refer to people who you had a close spiritual connection with,

like literally through baptism. But as time goes on, this definition relaxes a little bit. Essentially, gossip was for your BFFs, your closest friends, especially back in the day when word of mouth was all there was. But as soon as people figured out how to write stuff down, gossip became available to a wider audience. Around 1500 BC in Mesopotamia, cuneiform,

which is believed to be the oldest written language, was carved into these clay tablets. It's like, ah, great. So imagine being the archeologist who discovers something like this, right? It's so old and you're so excited to translate it. And you're like, wow, like this could be the answer to life. I mean, this could be like the next best thing for society.

And then you go back and you translate it. And like it literally was a story about the mayor of Mesopotamia having an affair with a married woman. Gasparilla, I know. I mean, that's literally what it was. A rumor about an affair carved into a tablet is wild. This just ramps up in ancient Egypt.

I guess the Egyptians loved gossip as well. They used hieroglyphics, you know hieroglyphics. They're like carvings, little pictures, kind of like comic strips, and they would use this to talk behind each other's backs. Well researchers at the Rosh Chrushan Egyptian Museum were translating these ancient carvings and they discovered once again that what they were studying was like some juicy ass gossip. This specific series of hieroglyphics was 5,000 years old.

And it was about a king who had a special relationship with one of his army generals. I guess this king would quote unquote check on this army general in the middle of the night pretty often. And allegedly they were not discussing military strategy. The text went on to say that in this king's home, there were no wives and the two were having a little homosexual love affair.

The Egyptians loved gossip so much that they literally carved it into stone. And you really have to care about something to do that. I mean, do you know how long it takes to carve something into stone? I mean, that was some dedication to the goss. I mean, for about as far back as writing has existed, we know that gossip has been very important to culture.

Another one of my favorite pieces of ancient gossip was found in the temple of Queen Hot Shep... Oh, f***. Her name is Queen Hot Shep Suit. Great. Like, I can't say it, but I'm trying my best. Hotshepsut. Okay, so in the temple of Queen Hotshepsut, there was another piece of ancient gossip that was found. Well, I guess there was like this little rumor going around

that the queen was sleeping with one of her advisors. Hot. The drawings that archeologists found basically showed the queen engaging in like pretty explicit sexual acts with a non-royal man. I know, I know. This rumor was never officially confirmed, but you know, the area where these drawings were found was in the servants area. And it's like, if anyone knew who was sleeping with who, you think it would be like the servants.

As time goes on and other cultures develop their own language, these kinds of stories are found everywhere, like all over the world, on more tablets, scrolls, papyrus, and even on pyramid walls. In 1450, Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press. Ah, ah, ah, great. And this was like a game changer because before the printing press, everything was written by hand, plus paper and ink.

They were hard to get. And if you were poor, knowing how to read was really not even a thing. But the printing press changed all of that. And this would be the beginning of the gossip column. Hey Joan and Paul, how's your guys's website coming along? Oh, I thought I told you guys to fix this. You never take my advice.

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Whether you want to just show it off or even sell it, they have the tools to help you do it. Check out squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash dark history to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Gossip didn't really catch on in print until the 1800s.

And just like in ancient Egypt, it seems like an affair really kickstarted the trend. In 1886, a newspaper printed a rumor that a woman named Lady Colin Campbell had run off with a man named Lord Blandford. Lady Colin was a big deal at the time. She was a well-known aristocrat and she was also George Bernard Shaw's muse. I know I was like, who the hell is George Bernard Shaw? Well, George was a famous Irish playwright. He actually wrote Pygmalion, which is what My Fair Lady was based on. I guess he was a big deal, whatever.

But Lady Colin, she was a big trendsetter at the time and a newspaper once ran an article that said quote, Lady Colin Campbell is the only woman in London who has her feet manicured. What an icon she put pedicures on the map. Well the rumor that Lady Campbell had run off with another man was never confirmed but it did lead to her filing for divorce, which back then was a huge deal. I mean, it was rare for people to get a divorce, so this was shocking. And this is actually an important part of what makes gossip gossip. A reporter named Elaine Louie actually gave a TED talk about the sociology of gossip.

She would say that gossip is more than convoes about scandalous drama. She said quote, "'Gossip allows us to communicate a code of behavior together and set a standard of conduct. It's a reflection of popular mores and ethics of the time.'" Basically, in order for gossip to be interesting, someone has to be breaking a cultural rule.

Like, you know, don't get divorced, don't sleep with your advisors, and don't cheat. And because of that, we learn a lot about what different cultures believe to be bad or good, like based on what they were gossiping about. But when you think about it, isn't it kind of interesting that most gossip is about cheating or sexual relations.

Like if it's good juicy gossip, it's probably breaking one of the 10 commandments. When you think about it, it checks out. Louis says, quote, you can't consume gossip without bias. And no one was more biased or judgy than the king of gossip. Someone who was once called the rudest man of the 20th century. On September 27th,

1839, a man named William Dalton Mann was born in Sandusky, Ohio. William was one of 13 children, so you know, he's looking for a way to stand out. Other than that, we don't know much about his early life, but according to historian Mark Caldwell, his origins were quote shadowy and humble Like what does that even mean? I don't know shadowy. What does that mean? I don't know. But okay Williams studied engineering but for going on to become a soldier and then after killing it in the Battle of Gettysburg he was promoted to the position of Colonel I hate that Colonel is spelled the way it is because it's like, where does the R,

it sounds like Colonel with an R, but it's like, oh, it doesn't make sense. I just had to put that out there. Thank you for listening. During the war, William invented this machine that was basically a rig that could be used to carry around like a ton of military equipment. So he's like smart, right?

He's inventing shit. And he licensed it to the US Army and this made him a lot of money. So by the time the Civil War ended, William was Colonel William and he was rich, super rich. But by the time William was in his 40s, he spent most of his money and he put all of it, a lot of it into a business he started,

which was called the Man Boudoir Car Company. And this company was making luxury sleeping cars for trains, which was like a really nice idea, but unfortunately, Man Boudoir, it just never really took off. I guess Colonel William was hemorrhaging money he continued to like keep up appearances, but it was like costing him You know the great thing about being alive back then was that you could really be whoever you wanted to be you know You could completely make up who you were how much money you had and there was like really no way for anyone to fact-check You and if they did want to fact- you, like they had to try really, really hard.

What I'm getting at is that William Dalton Mann, he used this to his advantage. According to the Journal of American Studies, he became a quote, confidence man, aka a con man and a schemer who had represented himself as a hotel keeper, entrepreneur of the oil industry, tax assessor, newspaper publisher, candidate for Congress, and millionaire inventor of luxury railway cars. That was a lot. He did that allegedly.

Basically, he dabbled, he talked a bit game, and he just like dressed the part. But William was worried because he knew he wasn't going to last unless he struck gold. And quickly. I've been using a certain SBF and it's been making me break out. I was like, thanks, you know. Now that it's summer, I'm wearing less makeup and like more skincare. And I think it's not rocket science.

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$5 at apostrophe.com slash dark history when you use our code dark history That's the savings of $15 now This code is only available to you our, and to get started just go to apostrophe.com slash dark history and then you click get started and then you use our code dark history at sign up and you'll get your first visit for only five dollars. A big thank you to apostrophe for sponsoring today's episode. Now let's get back to the story. In 1885, William got lucky.

He and his brother Eugene Mann decided to take over a magazine called Town Topics. It was a quote, society publication. It mainly reported on pop culture, specifically in New York. So when William and his brother took over Town Topics, the magazine was mostly about society events that were happening there. You know what I'm saying?

Things like debutante balls, big parties that society's elite were throwing, who died funerals, weddings, you get it. You could also find fashion tips, new styles, up and coming ways to decorate your home, and recipes for entertaining. But William Dalton Mann comes in and he's like, you know, what if this whole magazine was about gossip? Which is like, kind of wild, he thought of this. I think he just wanted to talk shit. He did. That's what he wanted to do. And he does.

Because he starts writing a column in the magazine he calls saunterings. Saunter means a leisurely stroll. So I feel like maybe he's choosing this name, like he's strolling around town, just eavesdropping, which I kind of love. When I think of this column, I think Carrie Bradshaw, like Sex and the City, a small little segment, but saunterings actually took up half of the magazine. And the magazine was like 24 pages total,

so this column was 12 pages long. Everyone knew William wrote it, but he went under the pen name, The Saunterer, which is very mysterious. And this made William a celebrity in his own right. And as the audience of town topics grew, so did William's ego. So the magazine covered some of the same topics as before, like parties and big events, but

with tea. William started to collect intel from all kinds of people, like servants, spies, and society insiders, and he would report on any and all rumors that they brought to him. Eventually this expanded to include anonymous tips as well, which usually came from like people who were harboring grudges and wanted to air out someone's dirty laundry. And this quickly became the section everyone cared about because it was so dang juicy.

Now the thing was, gossip was viewed by society at this point as something that was for women and not necessarily men. This actually goes way back to the days of witch hunts and burning women at the stake, which was one of the most extreme punishments for women who challenged the status quo and spread quote, dangerous talk. In 1547, there was a proclamation issued in England that ruled against the quote, Gossip and Babel of women.

Now this was allegedly to stop the spread of witchcraft. But good ol' William, he saw a smart way around this. He wanted Town Topics to reach a bigger audience, so he never promoted it as a gossip column. The full title of the magazine was Town Topics, a newspaper of society, fashion, drama, music, art, books, the club, racing, yachting, military, flowers, household, etc. Which is a very long title. I don't know how they fit that on the front cover, but they did. These were all things that appealed to an upper and middle class audience. So they never felt like they were reading, you know, a tabloid or smut.

It was sophisticated. They were there for like the fashion advice. There is even another section on Wall Street. So men could feel better about maybe indulging in it. It kind of reminds me of when people would say that they would read Playboy for the articles, you know? But like I love, I do. I have an obsession with collecting old Playboys from the 60s specifically, so if you have any you want to donate I'm more than happy to take them. But the articles and the interviews

are so good. They're so good. There's this one Playboy I have and there's an interview, really great interview with Martin Luther King Jr. So good. There's this one Playboy I have, and there's an interview, a really great interview with Martin Luther King Jr. So good. And it's just such a great read. And then you literally flip it to the next page and you're like, oh, titties. And it's just like, it's wild. Anyhow, that's what town topics did,

but without the titties, you know? So William was sandwiching the gossip in between topics that signaled sophistication and intelligence, like investing in art. And yeah, you get it. Okay, great. The magazine claimed to be quote, the newsiest, brightest, wittiest, wisest, cleverest,

most original and most entertaining paper ever published. My God, I know. I didn't know newsiest was a word, and most entertaining paper ever published. My God, I know. I didn't know newsiest was a word, but go off, King. I bet you William gave himself that review. William became a celebrity. People loved the guy. And he was in like the right place at the right time because he was everything that Americans

at this period admired. He was a war hero. He was a self-made businessman and inventor. And like, what couldn't this guy do, you know? New Yorkers just loved Colonel William. In 1885, when William and his brother took over the paper, there were only 5,000 subscribers, which is a lot. But just six years later, that went up to 63,000.

And Colonel William claimed that the number was actually 140,000, but he was known to be a bit of an exaggerator. So meet me halfway, 100,000 or something, great. Regardless, they had taken a low-level magazine and like turned it into the quote, most influential and widely read society gossip magazine in the country.

He helped create the Gossip Magazine as we know it today. And William would write about anyone. He did not care about stepping on anyone's toes. In 1904, the Sontrar launched a vicious attack on Alice Roosevelt. And Alice, she was a socialite, a writer, and of course, President Teddy Roosevelt's oldest child. Now, Alice was only 20 years old at the time, and she, I guess, was known to be a bit of a party animal. And the sonterer wrote wrote quote, from wearing costly lingerie to indulging in fancy dances for the edification of men and then indulging freely in stimulants.

Okay, party, you know, whatever. But good for her. I know you might be wondering, what are you wondering? Let me think, I'm gonna use my psychic abilities. You're like Bailey, how is this guy publishing 12 pages of piping hot tea every week without getting sued? Well, Colonel William, he outsmarted the system. He described any given scandal or rumor

without naming names. So he included just enough information about the people involved that if you were a reader, most likely you would be able to like guess who it was about. And this is known as a blind item. And I'm sure you're familiar with that term because a lot of gossip pages, like, you know,

they still use that term today, blind item. I'm like, this worked. Town Topics was literally never sued for libel. And the crazy thing is like William thought that all this trash talking he was doing was actually a public service. He once said, quote, there is no feature of my paper of which I am more proud. To save the sinner by rebuking the sin is an achievement over which the angels rejoice. Basically, he's like, I'm a god. I am untouchable. Maybe I, he just sounds like a bitter, angry, lonely man,

really, but whatever. You know, William believed that like he was having a positive influence on society because by reporting the people's quote unquote sins, they would learn their lesson. In reality, there was something like much darker going on, something that not even William could defend. The entire time while William was preaching

that he was reforming society and teaching the people a lesson, town topics was actually being used as a front for blackmail. Oops, yeah. Most of the gossip that William reported was about society's elite. So socialites, celebs, politicians, those people. But these stories wouldn't just go straight to print.

Nay nay. Instead, William would send a hunchman out to pay a little visit to the person in question. Let's just say that he gets a tip that a politician named Frank is paying for feet pictures. So he would send a guy to Frank's house to say, hey, we know you like feet.

William knows you like feet. And we're gonna run a story in the saunterings that says a politician whose name rhymes with spank likes feet. Now, unless of course you were interested in buying some advertising space, maybe then we won't run the story. I don't know.

So in other words, blackmail. Yeah, that's blackmail, my friends. Can't do that. As time went on and William the saunterer became more powerful, he didn't even have to send out his men to do house calls because people would come to him. It was said that, quote, on the days before town topics went to press, worried members of society arranged meetings with man at his favorite place,

Delmenico's, or in his office, where they could negotiate for discretion. The amounts man managed to extort from America's wealthiest men was staggering. William K. Vanderbilt stopped the saunter from running a story about him for $25,000. Charles M Schwab did the same for $10,000. And keep in mind, that's a lot of money back then. Like 10 grand back then was like $250,000 today. So like these must have been some juicy stories, right? That's a lot of money. And there was one Senator, his name was Russell Alger, and he actually gave William $100,000 in shares

in his company to kill a story before it was published. So William was getting money, okay? A lot of it. And just a little reminder, like don't get any ideas here because blackmail is illegal. Okay. Just reminding you cause it's a lot of money involved. So I know you're wondering, well, what if like the person just refused to cooperate? What if they tried to rat on William? I can't emphasize this enough.

You did not want to be on William's bad side. If you didn't cooperate, he would double down and print even worse rumors about you. And then he would become like a reoccurring character in his, his, his blop, you know? That would suck. It would ruin your life. The funny thing was like, even if you did pay up

and you gave William the blackmail money, you were still in trouble. I mean, William was so fake and catty that he would still wanna take you down. So to show his quote unquote appreciation, William would print all of these flattering stories about you, knowing that this would obviously stand out to the readers, cause they'd be like, what?

The santa is saying something nice? Like, oh, this person must be hiding something. people started to put two and two together and it became common knowledge that if the saunterer had something kind to say about you it was because you were paying him off. so shit it was like a lose lose really. which was honestly almost more embarrassing than just taking the heat and dealing with it. because then everyone would wonder what the shameful secret was and like just how much they had paid to keep it in the dark. And the scheme would have kept going for like,

God knows how long, if it wasn't for a brilliant writer named Emily Post. You know what I hate? I hate trying to find a doctor for any type of appointment really. I mean one you have to figure out what insurance you have. Two you have to find a doctor that is under your insurance. And then three you finally find a doctor that is like local and takes your insurance so you call the number to schedule an appointment and you can just like put on hold

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Yes, he did. Bad choices that he would regret for the rest of his life. He tried to blackmail a man named Edwin Post. Now, Edwin, he was a Wall Street stockbroker, like going through a rough time, financially and personally. He was having an affair with a Broadway actress and apparently he was even supporting her financially

by like paying for her apartment. Obviously the saunterer, William, found out about this and he blackmailed Edwin. He tells Edwin like, unless you can come up with $500, the whole story is going to print and there isn't anything you can do about it. $500 might not sound like a lot, but again, this was back then, it's a lot of money

because it would be over like $16,000 today. So it was a lot. And Edwin, I guess just didn't have, he didn't have the money. So he goes home and confesses everything to his wife, Emily Post, you know, before the story goes to print. So Emily is an author and she's super smart and she actually became famous for a book that she wrote on etiquette. But instead of trying to like hush up the story or going to her parents to get

the blackmail money, Emily was like, fuck it, let's take this guy down. She tells Edwin to get in touch with the district's attorney to set up a sting operation. Ooooooo and it worked. On July 11th, 1905, William Dalton Mann's agent was arrested in Edwin's Wall Street office. Emily and Edwin, they ended up getting divorced, but you know, at least it didn't like go to the public and She didn't have to like find out about the affair in town time in town topics Anyway, this takedown of the saunterer changed everything people were completely shocked William went from being the source of the stories to becoming Story himself. Oh

Such a bummer. I mean, not really, but like for him, I'm sure he felt like shit. Ultimately, William was charged with perjury. Yeah, William went from respected society elite to evil villain basically overnight. All his blackmail and dirty dealings were finally being exposed.

And during this time, saunterings started to take a nosedive. William died in 1920, but he really left behind a legacy. I mean, he completely changed the way newspapers and magazines reported gossip. I mean, the funniest thing to me is that even though Town Topics was the most widely read magazine in its heyday, no one ever admitted to having a subscription. Shame. Shame. Shame. So over the next decade a lot a lot is happening. Hollywood is established. Everyone starts to become

obsessed with screen actors and movies. I mean it's the Hollywood Golden Age. In the 1930s and 40s gossip columns were actually used as powerful media tools. The big movie studios like Metro Golden Mare, MGM, they knew that gossip columns had the public in a chokehold, ever since William had gotten everyone hooked on town topics. So to create some buzz around a specific movie or an actor, these movie studios would plant juicy rumors with specific journalists to get people in those movie theater seats. For the journalists, this gossip machine

was about selling newspapers and magazines. That was mainly it. And this publicity machine exchange created an intense rivalry between two journalists, Luella Parsons and Hedda Hopper. Luella, she was born in 1881, but for like most of her life, she would lie and say she was born in 1893.

My girl, okay. But after high school, Luella went to work as a reporter for a local newspaper in Illinois, and she married a guy named John Parsons. After her divorce, she and her daughter Harriet moved to Chicago, where she first worked as a studio screenwriter

and then as an early film columnist. One thing about Luella was that she was obsessed with Hollywood. One day she has like a major light bulb moment and she goes to her boss at work and the editor and like pitches him an idea. She's like, when movie stars travel across the country from LA to New York or whatever, you know,

they always have to stop in Chicago. So Luella's brilliant idea was to like go to the train station and when celebrities and stuff would like stop on their layover, she could interview them. Yeah, she's like, I could do this shit, watch. She figured it would be like a win-win. It would give the celeb a little press

and Luella could like put together a column about personal lives of the Hollywood stars. Like everyone would be as obsessed with it. Apparently her editor said like, who would be interested in reading about that? But like Luella knew. She was like, a lot of people would, okay. I mean, neither of us would say Luella proved him wrong.

This column of hers was kind of like, it was like TMZ of her day. And with this column, she becomes the go-to source for all of the inside drama on Hollywood's biggest stars. So within the next few years, she would become one of the most successful names in American journalism. Did you get another email

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slash dark history rocketmoney.com slash dark history have you ever heard the phrase a good lawyer knows the law a great lawyer knows the judge yeah me neither but luella like basically kind of invented this because she knew that like if she was going to have a career in journalism, she needed to have friends in high places. And it didn't really get much higher at this time than William Randolph Hearst. Buh-buh-buh-buh.

Maybe you remember we did an episode about Mr. Hearst in our Yellow Journalism episode. And I kept talking about Hearst Castle. I just went again recently. God I love Herst Castle. Anyways, William Herst was essentially the most powerful person in newspaper publishing at this time and his partner was Marion Davies, a Hollywood actress. So around this time Luella starts to rant and rave about you know Miss Marion in his in her column and she's just like gushing about her and this set her apart from other entertainment journalists at the time because a lot of people they didn't think Marion was like a good actress yeah one critic actually said quote miss

Davies has two dramatic expressions joy and indigestion. But Luella kissed Marion's ass until Marion noticed her and they became friends. Eventually this friendship would get Luella invited over to Hearst Castle. It's like a score. She's like, fuck yeah, I'm in. And in 1923, William Hearst sends Luella a personal offer to come write for his newspaper, the New York American. He gives her the title of motion picture editor with a salary of $250 a week. Today that would be like 4,600 a week. Dang, that's a lot.

What he's essentially doing is guaranteeing that Luella will keep praising his girlfriend in like every movie she's in. And Luella is like jazzed because she loves Hollywood and now she was in. She was in. So it's kind of like a win-win. Luella gave good reviews to other actresses as well. Like one of her favorites besides Marion was a woman named Hedda Hopper. Hedda was born in 1885 and was the daughter of a Quaker butcher from Pennsylvania. Quaker butcher sounds fake right? It's real. Quaker butcher? So random.

But good for her. She loved the theater and then I guess ran away to Broadway in 1908 and when she was there she became known as like the best pair of legs on Broadway, which is so lame. Like she has talent too, but okay, just her legs. So this caught the attention of a man named DeWolf Hopper, and he was a famous Harvard-educated actor. He was 27 years older than Hedda and had been married four different times, you know. But in 1913, Hedda became his fifth wife. Fifth time's a charm. They have a son, I guess, you know, and then a few years later, DeWolf,

he gets a job offer from a film company in Los Angeles, and the family moves to Hollywood, and Hedda starts to get some like small roles in the movies. And this is when Luella first notices Hedda, and the two become kind of friendly. So Hedda's career starts to take off and by 1920, she's making like a thousand dollars a week, which is a lot and it's great for her.

But I guess it's bad for her marriage because she's married to like an egomaniac, psychotic, insanely jealous loser. DeWolf starts like having a affair. And I mean, are you surprised? Ma'am, he was married four times. Like you think the fifth, you think you're it? Sorry.

Anyways, he has an affair, bloop, bloop, bloop, they get a divorce. So because of all this like drama, Hedda's divorce ends up, you know, showing up in Luella's column. But I guess it's fine because like, at this point they were friends. And Luella is kind of like rooting for Hedda's divorce ends up, you know, showing up in Luella's column. But I guess it's fine because like, at this point they were friends. And Luella is kind of like rooting for Hedda.

She's like, Hedda, the world needs to know like how big of a dog this DeWolf is. And he was, fuck that guy. According to like Dorothy Manners, who took over Luella's column after her death, said, quote, "'They liked each other a lot. If anything happened on a set, if a star and a leading man were having an affair,

Hedda would give Luella a call. I mean, Luella had spies everywhere by this time. And according to Vanity Fair, quote, her informants could be found in studio corridors, hairdressers, salons, and lawyers and doctors' offices. She sometimes learned of Starlett's pregnancies before they did." Luella did not give a fuck about feelings

when she thought she was on to something. According to the same article, when she received a tip that Clark Gable and his second wife, Rhea, were about to divorce, Luella kidnapped Ms. Gable, whom she held hostage at her North Maple Drive home until she was sure the story was speeding across the wire ahead of any other service." I know I was thinking about this I read this and I was like okay

first of all I have some follow-up questions. Did she know she was kidnapped? The wife. Was she aware she was kidnapped or did like Luella presented as like a girl's weekend? We're just gonna hang out like no phones or anything it's wild just the two of us. I don't know but she did that okay. Anyway with Luella and Hedda Hopper it was kind of like you know you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. That was their friendship until it wasn't. One night Hedda was at like a dinner party and she was like talking about, you know, some Hollywood drama, whatever.

And her friend Eleanor, who works for the Washington Herald, goes like, you know, why don't you write that? Like your drama is so good, why don't you write it and like share it, whatever. And apparently Hedda goes like, write? I can't even spell. And Eleanor was like, girl, like just have someone, you know, dictate it for you.

The world needs to know, like all the drama you know. And thanks to this woman Eleanor, by 1935, Hedda now had her own gossip column. At first, Luella was like, oh my God, like, yeah, cute. You know when you're really good at something and then your friend is like, I'm gonna do that too. And then they're really good at it. And you're like, but that's my thing.

I'm the one who eats playdough. Like you can't eat playdough. Anyone can relate to playdough. Okay, no, at first Luella is like, oh my God, cute. Like that's such a cute idea. But then like Hedda is getting more and more popular. And Luella was like, you know, that's my thing. You know, there can't be two of us.

I'm the gossip writer. So apparently at an MGM dinner party, they were both invited to, Luella walked in, saw that Hedda was there. She turned on her heel and she left in a huff. I know. According to Dorothy, quote, Luella never really dreamed at first that Hedda could ever become serious competition,

but then neither did Hedda. Whoops. So in 1950, Luella outdid herself. She gets the scoop that this big Hollywood actress, Ingrid, was pregnant with a love child. Apparently this actress was recently divorced and had been living in Italy with the director of a movie she was making. Allegedly.

Now somehow Luella confirms that this actress was pregnant. And then before you know it, boof. It's front page news. It was everywhere. Literally front page baby do in three months in Rome. It was like front page of the Los Angeles Examiner. And it was kind of like, take that Hedda, you know? Like I got the scoop before you did.

And they outed this poor woman. I don't even know if she knew she was pregnant, but like that's fucked up. Either way, before you know it, it's like Hedda versus Luella and now they're all beefin'. And their feud wasn't just like professional either, it was pretty personal. Hedda and Luella, they weren't afraid to like use their rival columns to settle scores and to take down anyone who dared to cross them. Except for some reason, Catherine Hepburn. For some reason, I don't know, they had some sort of unspoken rule

that they would never say anything about Catherine Hepburn. I think people just like really love the bitch, you know? I mean, I'm not calling her a bitch, but like people were obsessed with her. People still are obsessed with her. Maybe they just wanted to be friends with her, really. So it was kind of like high school drama. Ah, ah!

I mean, it is like high school school drama but with like million dollar movie deals and scandalous affairs thrown into the mix. The movie studios back then had a moral turpitude clause in all of the actor contracts and basically what this meant was that if an actor was caught misbehaving, their contract could be automatically canceled, essentially fired without any notice. This was because the studios didn't want their bad behavior to be seen as a reflection on them or their films. And these moral turpitude clauses were also used as a weapon. If there was ever a problem with an actor, the studios would simply put Hedda or Luella on the case, and then have them dig up some dirt, maybe have it printed, they would publish it,

and then they would have a license to fire the performer. It just sounds like it would cost them a lot of money though, so it's like why would they even want to do that? I don't know. Even though both Hedda and Luella were basically being used as pawns by these big studios, they were too preoccupied with their few to even really care. Luella had no problem throwing her own friends under the bus, you know,

just to report the scoop before anyone else. I guess one night Luella was hanging out with one of her close friends, and this close friend was an actress, and the actress was telling her about her marital problems. Like, oh, I think we're gonna get a divorce, things are just not working out. So of course as a friend, I guess they thought like Luella is just going to like, you know, keep it to herself. But of course

she didn't. Literally the next day, like Luella runs the story about like maybe a divorce coming up with this famous actress. And for good reason, her friend was pissed. She had assumed it was off the record, but for Luella, nothing was off the record. Apparently Heda didn't take it as seriously. She saw the rivalry as kind of funny and leaned into it a bit. Heda even once said, quote, Luella Parsons is a reporter trying to be a ham. Hedda Hopper is a ham trying to be a reporter. End quote. I personally love ham. Uh it's so good huh? Man I'm hungry. I'm so hungry right now. So ham. So they were like frenemies. They're constantly trying to like one up each other while secretly respecting each other's hustle, I guess. And they never really wanted to make amends.

Ultimately, Luella and Hedda both knew that in Hollywood, feuds were good for business. The Hollywood studio system started to lose power as agents and executives took over. Times were changing. Luella and Hedda eventually published books, memoirs, and started working in the world of TV before they would retire. But to this day, no gossip columnists have the same power as they did. In their heyday of the Hollywood Golden Era, there was apparently a line outside of their homes like during the holidays to deliver presents which I

don't know you know that's cool you know I mean if you didn't deliver a present you might end up in the paper I mean really it was just showing that these people like feared these women but at the end of the day Hedda and Luella they weren't just gossip columnists I mean they were power players in an industry built on image and illusion. Their words could really make or break careers, and they did. Between them and Colonel William,

they really shaped the course of gossip history. Yeah, I mean, love them or hate them, you can't deny that they kept the people entertained. Yeah. According to gossip columnist Liz Smith, quote, LA is now a town with no gossip column. No one wants to let these demons loose again, end quote. It's not, it's kind of crazy.

Like there's no official gossip column in a LA newspaper. It's like, should we, I don't want to open that door. It's like, should we petition for a comeback? No, I don't really think so. I think we're okay without gossip, but plus it's like should we petition for a comeback? No, I don't really think so. I think we're okay without gossip but plus it's like today's social media that's the gossip column you know everyone is like gossiping on social media period so like we I don't even think we need a Colonel William or a Luella to report it just go on TikTok and it's just, did you hear that so and so did that?

I mean, what do you guys think? Is gossip better or worse, you know, today with social media? Sometimes it's like, it seems like it's better because at least like celebrities and people high up or whatever, they have their own platforms. So it's like, you can kind of control the narrative a little bit more. You aren't just like sitting around powerless because of like what the saunter said about you

and then like you can't do anything about it like people just believe it to be true and that's it point-blank period. I mean you can like nowadays you can go on Instagram live TikTok live or something be like you know this is what really happened I didn't punch her in the face I lightly slapped you know set the record straight. But then again, I mean, sometimes like we learned in ancient Egypt, the gossip lasts longer than anything else. So good luck to you out there, folks. Back when we were talking about William Mann,

I mentioned that he covered a bunch of events, including debutante balls. Balls, and this is like one of those things I've heard of, but I didn't really know about it. Like I didn't know much about it. What is it? Like I know that they happen a lot in the American South, but that was really as far as I knew.

I always thought that like debutante balls were essentially kind of like a formal dance, like prom. But no, turns out they are much more than that. In fact, debutante balls go back centuries. They have a dark, twisted origin story and they gave birth to birth to the American prom as we know it today. Come back next week for the dark history of debutante balls and prom. It's kind of fun. It's really interesting. You're gonna learn a lot. I learned a lot.

Well friends, thank you for hanging out with me today. You can join me over on my YouTube where you can actually watch these episodes on Thursday. Yeah, after the podcast airs, you can watch. And while you're there, you can also catch my murder, mystery, and makeup. And don't forget to subscribe because I'm here for you weekly with new content.

I'd love to hear your guys' reactions to today's story. Let me know what you think about gossip. Isn't it interesting? It's kind of like we're gossiping now, huh? Make sure to leave a comment below so I can like see what you guys are saying and your comment might even be featured in a future episode. Yeah! Now let's read a couple of comments you guys left me. I like this part, it's always fun. Mama Madiwa, sorry mama if I got that wrong, but she left a comment on our challenger episode saying, quote, imagine thinking, let me go on YouTube

and watch something light and clicking on this and kicking up your feet with a cup of coffee. This is my comfort zone, end quote. Aw, I love that. I mean, yes, it's darker, but you're learning something too. You know, like we're learning. We're learning a lot. So it's not that bad.

Yeah, you know? I listen to darker things so relax, I'm sorry. We're very alike. I appreciate you for watching. Alisha Fulcher 733 left us an episode suggestion saying, Plum Island, can you do a dark history on this subject? Alisha Fulcher 733 left us an episode suggestion saying, Plum Island, can you do a dark history on this subject? Alisha, I thought that this was going to be a happy topic

because the word plum, I was thinking like, cute, like animal crossing? No, of course not, I was wrong. I should have learned my lesson with lavender scare. I guess it seems like an island about disease research or something? Like I'm intrigued. Plum Island. I'm going to be looking into it.

Probably stay up all night and blame you for not getting sleep tonight. But thank you for the recommendation and I will look into it. Thank you. I love you for watching and engaging. Keep on commenting because maybe you will be featured. And hey if you don't know, Dark History is an audio boom original. A special thank you to our expert Dr. Cathy Feely. And I'm your host Bailey Sarian. I hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices. Please. I'll be talking to you next week.

Bye! I'll be talking to you next week. Bye. Bye. One, two, three, four, five, six. Ah. And has almost $600,000 to her name, but she doesn't stop working. And it's not just because she wanted to keep making money for her cooking. Summer is great and all, but like there's always so much pressure

to always just be doing something outside or just be doing something. She's like, oh, we're going to the farmer's market. We're going to the beach. Personally, like don't tell anyone, I'm sorry, but like I'm not the biggest fan of summer. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know why?

Because I, for one, listen, skin cancer runs in my family, so the sun is really not my friend. And two, dark spots, they always appear on my face, and quickly, so it's just like a bummer, okay? But look, I should fear the sun no more, because I have apostrophe on my side. The sponsor of today's episode, Hey, OK, yeah, great. Let me tell you, I love what Apostrophe does because their goal is to help you

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