Dark History - 188: The Mass Murders That Set The Stage for Hitler

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Hi friends. Happy Wednesday.  Today’s episode is personal. It’s painful. And it’s important. We’re talking about the Armenian Genocide... a chapter of history that millions experienced, yet many still deny or have never been taught. I’ve always known I wanted to cover this story because of my family history. But every time I tried, it never felt like the right moment. The truth is… there is no “right moment.” The right thing is to remember, to learn, and to honor those who lived through it... and those who didn’t. In today's episode, we'll look at how the Armenian community in the Ottoman Empire was targeted, how the genocide was carried out under the chaos of World War I, the stories of survival and resistance, and why recognition of these events is still debated today. History isn’t always pretty. But understanding it helps us recognize injustice when we see it... and stop it before it happens again. And before I go... I mention a couple sources in the episode that I wanted to link in the description box. Here they are: https://inogs.com  https://www.ted.com/talks/umit_kurt_ugly_history_the_armenian_genocide ________ FOLLOW ME AROUND Tik Tok: https://bit.ly/3e3jL9v Instagram: http://bit.ly/2nbO4PR Facebook: http://bit.ly/2mdZtK6 Twitter: http://bit.ly/2yT4BLV Pinterest: http://bit.ly/2mVpXnY Youtube: http://bit.ly/1HGw3Og Goodreads: http://bit.ly/3IVnO7N Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3cC0V9d Discord: https://discord.gg/BaileySarian RECOMMEND A STORY HERE: [e-mail] Business Related Emails: [e-mail] Business Related Mail: Bailey Sarian 4400 W. Riverside Dr., Ste 110-300 Burbank, CA 91505 ________ This podcast is Executive Produced by: Bailey Sarian and Joey Scavuzzo Head Writer: Allyson Philobos Senior Writer: Katie Burris Additional Writing: Jessica Charles Research provided by: Coleen Smith Additional Research provided by: Sevag Kechichian Special thank you to our Historical Consultant: Ümit Kurt, Professor of History and an affiliated member of the Center for Study of Violence at the University of Newcastle, Australia  Director: Brian Jaggers Additional Editing: Julien Perez and Maria Norris Hair: Angel Gonzalez Makeup: Roni Herrera ________ This holiday season, simplify your routine with makeup that’s clean, strategic, and multifunctional. And don’t miss out on their limited-edition holiday sets – they won’t be here for long and once they’re gone, they’re gone.  Also, as a treat for our listeners, you’ll get a free Cool Gloss on your first purchase when you use code DARKHISTORY at checkout.  Just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code DARKHISTORY at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to Zocdoc.com/DARKHISTORY to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. That’s Zocdoc.com/DARKHISTORY.

Listen, there are some episodes of Dark History I've been wanting to do for a very long time since season one, really. And today's episode is one of them. It's something I've researched over and over again throughout the years. And listen for today, like we've talked to several experts. And every time I sit down to like work on this episode, something always holds me back. To me, I'm like, it doesn't feel like the right time. But I'm like, when is the right time, you know? Because I realize here at Dark History, I mean, how important it is to talk about historical events

because it's important to keep the memories, the truth of what happened alive in hopes that it doesn't happen again. Today, we are going to be talking about the Armenian Genocide. Listen, if you didn't know, hi, I'm Bailey Sarian and I am Armenian. And so, like, it only feels right to talk about this. Listen, when it comes to the Armenian Genocide, it's complicated. And, you know, I had a lot of questions of, like, what really happened? How did it happen? Why do some countries still insist it never happened?

And again, really what started Dark History is like, why didn't I learn about this in school? So join me today as we discuss the Dark History of the Armenian Genocide. genocide. Hi, friends. I hope you are having a wonderful day today. My name is Bailey Sarian, and I'd like to welcome you to my podcast, Dark History. Here, we believe history does not have to be boring. It might be tragic.

Rarely it's happy. But either way, it's our dark history. Now before we get into it, don't forget to like and subscribe because I'm always here posting new content. Hello. Hi. And let me know what you think down in the comment section down below. I love hearing from you and we read comments at the end. Okay.

So, listen, Armenian genocide. It's complicated, okay? And I'm going to start off by acknowledging that there is so much that happened before and leading up to the genocide and after the genocide. that we don't, I don't have enough time to get into every single detail, you know? So down in the description box, down below, I'm going to link places where you can learn more information if you would like to. But for the most part, I'll give you the rundown, okay? So back in the day, in the 1800s, Armenia was located in the Ottoman Empire. Now, the Ottoman Empire was huge, and it was mostly based where the country, Turkey, is today.

So the empire was ruled by Muslim Ottomans. So the laws were based on Islamic law. And even though most people in the Ottoman Empire were Muslim, there were also millions of Christian Armenians. So these Armenians, they had their own government within the Ottoman Empire. And even though they technically had religious freedom, there, you know, they were still some major issues. Now, compared to Muslim Ottomans, Christian Armenians were treated like second-class citizens,

and they were forced to follow a totally different set of laws. For example, they were forced to pay higher taxes than the rest of society. They didn't have as many legal rights. Christian Armenians weren't even allowed to testify in court if they were accused of a crime. It was just like, it was unfair. On top of that, Armenians were being attacked literally. They were being attacked by Kurdish tribes within the Ottoman Empire.

Kurdish people were nomads who usually lived in mountaine areas in West Asia, aka South Eastern Turkey, or like northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria. So they're everywhere, I guess. Sorry, okay. Never eat soggy waffles. Southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, northern... Okay, okay, anyways. So let me tell you like how these attacks would happen.

These Kurdish tribes, they would break onto like an Armenian family's land and just steal whatever crops they had. grown. And then the next day, they tell the Armenian landowner that if they wanted to get like these crops back, that they'd have to pay a crazy price to get them back. Something just ridiculous. Now, of course, these crops were a way for Armenian farmers to feed their family and it was part of their livelihood and how they made money. So like this was a major loss. So these Kurdish tribes, they gained a pretty violent reputation. Because along with all the same, stealing, they were also known to, like, kidnap and, like, rape local women. And this was sadly a threat most Armenians had to face, like, on a regular basis. And since they were

considered second-class citizens, they didn't get any protection from the government. So this goes on for decades throughout the 1800s. And the whole time, Armenian activists, they are fighting for better rights for their community. Armenians would, like, band together, take a stand against the government through political demonstrations, refusing to follow certain unfair laws, and even by sending leaders to directly talk to politicians in charge. Look, none of this was easy because a lot of people died in the process. And with each death, people were asking themselves like, oh my gosh, you know, is this really worth it? Is trying to fight back really worth all of this, you know? But then, an 18th,

It seemed like all that work had finally paid off because something called the Treaty of Berlin was signed. Essentially, the treaty was a bunch of agreements made between Russia and the Ottoman Empire. And finally, Armenian activists kind of got a win out of this. That's like the simplified version, okay? Now, Christian Armenians would get the same rights as other people within the empire. Like, for example, they could now pay regular taxes. Now, it sounds like not a big deal, but it was symbolic, you know, a small win. But there was a catch, of course.

This treaty said that the leader of the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Abdul Hamid II, basically had final say over anything the treaty demanded. And originally, in public, the sultan agreed to the treaty. He's like, sure, yeah, that sounds great, whatever, yay. But then behind closed doors, this guy, mm-mm, he had other ideas. He's like, there's no, no, no. Once the treaty was supposed to go into effect, the sultan went back on his word. He didn't want the Armenian community to become too powerful. He wanted them to stay second-class citizens so he could continue.

to control them, essentially. But, you know, the Armenians were not about to let this slide. Hell no. They formed a resistance movement and started protesting against the government. Now, at first, the Sultan was annoyed by all the demonstrations, but he didn't think much would come of it. Because at the end of the day, the Ottomans, like, they outnumbered the Armenians. Like around this time in the late 1800s,

they were around 17 million Ottomans, and only around 1.5 to 2 million of those people were Armenian. So they're, you know, kind of outnumbered. But by the late 1800s, all this Armenian resistance was becoming just a huge problem. So much was going on at this time, okay? But what you need to know is that war was everywhere, okay? The empire was constantly left having to defend itself, especially against Russia.

Now, let me tell you, Russia was a huge problem for the Ottoman Empire. First of all, they beat their ass in a bunch of wars, so they were like an enemy. But also, Russia sympathized with all the discrimination the Armenians were going through. This made the Sultan super paranoid because he starts thinking, look, okay, look, the Armenians are going to start siding with Russia, you know, and then in the next war, like, that could be bad. Now, at this time, Russia was also a Christian country. So the Sultan starts connecting the dots and he's like, oh my God, you know, we're treating Armenians like crap. Russia is going to like kind of welcome the Armenians with open arms. and then like they're all gonna freaking turn on us.

He's getting a little like, uh-oh, paranoid. You know, and the Sultan, he didn't really care about, like, reality. The only thing he was really caring about was sending a bloody, violent message to the Armenians. Listen, I love the holidays. Oh, yes, I do. But getting ready for events is exhausting. There's the outfit, the hair.

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Dark History sent you. That'd be great. In the late 1800s, Armenians under the Ottoman Empire were fighting against the government after the Sultan refused to give them the same rights as the rest of the Ottoman Empire. Now, the people who were running the Ottoman Empire at this time were Turkish. So they believed that Turkish culture, traditions, and laws were the only real way to run a country.

But once Armenians started challenging the government, this made the Turkish people in charge get kind of nervous. They were essentially like, how dare you think there's another way to run this empire? Or like, who do you think you are? You know, get the fuck out of here. I mean, they believe that they were the best. This is our place. What are you doing? Now, this caused Turkish extremists to bond over their common enemy, Armenians.

And those extremists created an aggressive Turkish nationalist movement. The movement believed that Turkish civilization was superior to all others. It was basically them versus everyone else. If someone didn't agree with like the nationalist movement, chaos would break out on the streets. There were bloody demonstrations between Turkish nationalist and everyone else in the Ottoman Empire. So like no one felt safe leaving their house. Okay. And the sultan, he kind of loved it.

He actually encouraged these nationalists to keep using violence against Armenians to keep them like. in their place. Now, the Sultan believed he was justified in ordering acts of violence because no matter how much he punished them, Armenians were resisting the government. And that shit was pissing him off. In 1890, a reporter quoted the Sultan by saying, quote, I will soon settle those Armenians. I will give them a box on the ear, which will make them relinquish their revolutionary ambitions, end quote. In other words, he was going to find a way to violently punish them. So the Sultan decides to hit the Armenians where it hurt. He was like, you know, F that law, that Berlin rule, whatever. He increased their taxes even more. And he knew what

he was doing because this was a setup. He knew this would piss people off and caused them to rebel against the government even more, which then would give his soldiers permission to send a message. So in 1894, one province refused to pay the new taxes. So the Sultan sent Ottoman troops to straight up, they go there, and they set the entire Armenian villages on fire. Yep, they just lit it up. Men, women, children, it did not matter who it was,

like who it was, it did not matter. They burned it down. These villages were totally destroyed. and it killed thousands of people. Now, again, because it was the government who did this, there were no consequences. Soldiers were free to punish and kill the Armenians however they saw fit. In 1895, the Sultan sent soldiers to the town of Irfa

because he believed there was a strong resistance movement happening over there. So, you know, with the Sultan's blessing, soldiers started killing people left and right. just clean house okay now 3,000 people managed to escape the initial killings and tried to find a safe place to hide from like all the violence the only place big enough to hold all the people was the local cathedral so over 3,000 people they like go to this cathedral they kind of pack themselves in there they're praying hoping to be safe and that the soldiers soldiers would leave. But instead, the soldiers kind of figured out where they were all at, and they took this as an opportunity to murder them all at once. They set the cathedral on fire.

Now listen, everyone inside burned alive. Horrible. Tragic story. But it's just one of many that were happening at once. Between 1894 and 1897, these massacres continued in town after town after town, by the time they ended, somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 Armenians had been killed by this point. These events ended up being called the Hamidian massacres in honor of the Sultan Abdul Hamid II. I mean, would you be proud to have like a

massacre named after you? Is that exciting in honor of the, okay, whatever. So the massacres ended up making headlines across the entire world. Other countries started sending aid to the Armenians. Actually, the American Red Cross sent their first ever international aid to the Armenians after these massacres. Now all this negative press across the world started to make the Sultan pull back on the violence and things kind of like calm down a little bit, I guess.

In the Armenian people, like, you know, they did their best to rebuild, what was left of their lives. Now, during all this, some Armenians fled to other countries. Others decided to stay because, like, everything and everyone they knew was, you know, in the Ottoman Empire. This was their home. And a lot of them just, like, didn't want to start over or, like, they couldn't afford to start

over. So, after the initial round of massacres, different groups within the empire banded together. And listen, again, there's a little. lot of details here, so I apologize, I can't get into all the details, but a lot happened. But essentially, these political groups were able to finally overthrow the Sultan and take over the government. Now, this was like a huge, shocking win. Generations of Armenian families had dealt with the violence from the Sultan, and no one had been able to do this before. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't just like it happened in one day and it was like, yay, you know, like a lot of deaths, a lot of bad things, but they were able to do it.

After the overthrow, the Ottoman Empire finally got a new and more fair constitution. People in the empire, not just Turkish nationalist, would now have equal rights. And for the first time, and God knows how long, um, our Armenianians, started to feel somewhat safe again. But sadly, a few years later, military leaders and nationalists started seizing power again. An extremist group called Turkey for the Turks

began to take over the Ottoman Empire. Turkey for the Turks. I know, it sounds like Thanksgiving dinner. It was essentially another form of Turkish nationalism, and this couldn't have happened. like at the worst time. By 1914, World War I had broken out. We haven't done an episode on World War I, huh? No, I don't think we have. Well, anyways, long story short, the Ottoman Empire

joined the war and this led them to go to battle once again with their longtime enemy, Russia. And once again, Russia beat their ass badly, okay? Oops. Now, They're upset. They lost. They got their ass beat by Russia. You think they'd be like, you know, you think they'd blame Russia. But instead, the Turkish government was like, no, it was the Armenians' fault. I don't know. It's like all the stories we do. It's like people just need to blame someone. And it's always like the wrong people they blame. Okay? Well, their excuse was that during the Hamidian massacres, Russia had welcomed. Armenian refugees into their country for safety. They even allowed them to join the military to fight against the Ottoman Empire. So in World War I, there were some Armenians fighting,

like on Russia's side of the war. Despite the fact that thousands of Armenians fought on the side of the Ottoman Empire, the government decided to blame all Armenians for this defeat. And at this point, like, the whole world was distracted by the war. So they really weren't worried about, like, getting bad press over this. It's so weird, like, in my everyday life, I never really burp.

It's only when I'm filming. And I wonder what that is. I'm sure there's a reason to it. I will chat GPT it later. Thank you. Okay. So the Ottoman Empire decided to take advantage of, like, all this war and chaos happening and they were like hey like why don't we start another massacre but this time you know

they were determined to get rid of all Armenians once and for all lately it feels like no matter what we do it's just like never enough am I drinking enough water should I be adding another step to my 18 step skin and care routine am I getting enough sleep supplements should I be taking How many? Which ones? There's a bajillion. It's exhausting. But you know what we should actually be doing? Seeing a doctor or a dentist or a gynecologist. You know, like someone who can actually help us figure out what it is your body really needs. And that's where Zoc Doc comes in.

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Everyone is terrified, trying to survive. After the Ottoman Empire lost to Russia, the government decides to blame the Armenian people. And they decide to, quote, unquote, remove Armenians from the Ottoman Empire forever. Now, at this point, there were three leaders, or Pashas, as they were called, who were in charge of getting rid of Armenians in the empire. So they come up with a plan, okay? And the first thing they did was remove Armenians from active duty in the Ottoman army. You know, I guess they didn't want them like near any weapons.

They also wanted to create tighter laws about what Armenians couldn't do in their own country. But there were still plenty of Armenian activists who were keeping like an eye on all of this, paying attention. So authorities decided to do something that would send a message and take care of those activists. On April 24th, 1915, 254 Armenian intellectuals were arrested and taken into custody. So these intellectuals, I was like, who are they? Well, they were essentially like leaders and activists in the Armenian community. They were doctors, civil leaders, artists, anyone who was considered important to the Armenian people. Now, the government claimed that they arrested them because they were worried that these people were spies for their enemy Russia.

But the truth was, they wanted to take away the community's leaders, so, you know, they would leave the people scrambling, you know, but it didn't work. The Armenian community was strong and connected, and no matter how many leaders they killed or arrested, the resistance would not stop. stop. This is when the government decided, okay, fine, we're going to take it up a notch. And they sure did. I mean, it's already pretty while, but they just really take it up a fucking notch. First, government officials, they started killing most of the young, fit, able-bodied, aka healthy Armenian men, because Turkish leaders believed if anyone, was going to attack the government, it would most likely be them. Maybe you're like me and you're wondering, well, how did they even know who like these Armenian men were? Well, there was a few ways.

They could tell like by their accent. You could also tell if someone was Armenian by their last name. And also they could figure it out based on like what part of the empire they lived in. I know. You'd probably would just be lying and be like, my last name is Bob. I can't think of a last name all of a sudden. Blacksmith. I don't know. And listen, like these men that they were going after, it's not like they belong to a resistance movement.

These were just, like, innocent teenagers, young fathers, the everyday workers, normal people, okay? nobody, quote, quote, like, important, but the government didn't, like, want to take a risk in case that these men decided to, like, you know, flip or something. Sometimes the government allowed these men to live, but it's not because they felt bad for them or, like, gave them a pass. They would instead, like, kidnap them

and force them to join something called a labor battalion. Now, these labor battalions were essentially war camps, mostly for Armenian men in the Ottoman Empire. They would be forced to transport whatever the military needed on their literal backs on foot, okay, carry it to the freaking battlefront, which was hundreds of miles away. Now, they were essentially transporting anything that the Ottoman Empire military needed, like, like weapons, heavy building materials, um, heavy shit, okay? Things that were also dangerous to transport. They could've used a wagon, but you didn't want to, no, no.

Most of the time being sent to these battalions was like a death sentence because the guards, they worked you until you dropped dead. Now these men were given almost no food, no water. They were starving, they were, dehydrated and then obviously exhausted on top of all the forced labor they had to do. Now the point of these battalions was to get as much free labor out of the Armenian men as they could before they died. So either you joined the labor battalion or you were murdered.

Which one do you want? Now you might be wondering like, hey, what about all like the people who weren't able-bodied young men? men, you know, the hundreds of thousands of women, children, elders who weren't immediately killed or sent to the battalions like the men. Instead, they were sent to places called deportation camps. It's essentially a camp in a neighboring country where refugees waited until they hopefully found like somewhere to work and settle. So at first, you know, women, and elders are thinking, you know, we just have to make it to these deportation camps. And, you know, if we can do that, then everything will be okay.

You know, like it was a survival goal. But they had no idea that the worst part of the deportation camps would be the freaking awful journey to get there. By 1915, Armenians started being murdered and deported by the thousands. They would then be forced to march across the desert to get to places called deportation camps. Now, you know, the people, they weren't rounded up, shoved in a car and, like, taken there. Instead, they were forced to walk for hundreds of miles in scorching desert weather. And of course, they were given no food, no water, no nothing. So the march, extremely brutal.

I mean, shit, I walked down to my mailbox the other day, and I was fucking dying in this heat. In fact, most of the people being deported weren't even given time to, like, pack their belongings. You know, they'd be in their house, minding their own business, and then all of a sudden, people would come in, force them, like, in their home at gunpoint. And then whatever you were wearing is what you, like, that was it, okay? You got to go. You got to get out. You're being sent to one of these camps. So obviously, if you're like, I don't know, in your, like, pajamas or something, you weren't dressed properly for walking thousands of miles in the heat.

And some people, like, they didn't even get a chance to, like, put on some shoes. Armed soldiers kept these people in line no matter what. You know, and along the way, they just were ignoring people's pleas for help, for water, for anything. It's definitely giving, did you watch that dark history about the trail of tears? It's definitely giving that, where it's just people having to walk really freaking far and assholes keeping them in their place. And if you complained, if you spoke up, if you said anything, you were just killed. So I was like, what the fuck were you going to do, you know?

Like if a person decided, you know what, fuck this, I'm going to make a run for it. or I'm going to speak out and say something against these assholes, most likely you were just going to be killed, like immediately. No questions asked. And because soldiers didn't want to waste bullets on their prisoners, they would instead stab or beat them to death in front of everyone. I think because they wanted to make a freaking point. It was especially dangerous for children and young women because,

Of course, not of course, but like, you know, young women, they were often abducted and then they were raped by soldiers or criminals who attack them during the march. Now, many parents were forced to make a really heartbreaking decision to pretty much part with their children. Like, some parents decided, okay, they can go on this march or I can, like, leave them with a Turkish Muslim family that they trusted. And, you know, at least they'll be safe with them. And, like, that was the best case scenario. And I'm sure at the time, parents were also thinking, like, hey, if I can survive this, you know, I can come back and get my kid when it's all over and, like, everything will be okay. who knows, but either way, anything was better than being forced to march. So a lot of people ended up turning over their kids.

And that was like best case scenario, because what usually happened was actually much worse. In some provinces, kids under the age of 12 were just straight up kidnapped and then sent to Turkish orphanages. The kids were forced to convert from Christianity to the country's official religion, Islam. Now, the kids, you know, while they're there, they're taught the ways of Turkish culture and were instructed to ignore the fact that they were born Armenian. They're like, get rid of that. You're not Armenian anymore. Kids who refuse to speak in Turkish or embrace, like, their new life were physically punished. This is very, like, Trail of Tears.

and that school episode we did too. Now, this was all part of the government's plan to essentially erase Armenians from the Ottoman Empire. They wanted to start with the young generation first. I mean, they're easier to mold, right? To change them, to get them on the right track. If young girls didn't end up in an orphanage,

they would be married off to Turkish men. Now, usually, I would say probably, majority of them, it was done against their will, you know, and it was all just so terrifying. Families are being ripped apart. You're told you're not allowed to be Armenian. Now you're going to marry this older man. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. Now, sometimes, like, families actually wanted their kids to be married off because, again, like, it was way better than, like, having to go through one of those marches. Because listen, these marches were not easy. People were either starving to death or dying of dehydration, or they were just getting

murdered because they tried to make a run for it. After days without water, many people dropped dead just right on the road. One survivor, a man named Edward Rukubian, described the march conditions saying, quote, we walked for many days, occasionally running across small lakes and rivers. After a while we saw corpses on the shores of these lakes. Vultures circle the skies above us waiting for their evening meal, end quote. According to Edward, he said that he and like some other people eventually found a pit that was like filled with a layer of mud at the bottom and that they were so thirsty that they tried to essentially kind of get water from that mud. So they used their shirts to try and drain the water into their mouths.

I mean, even the smallest amount of water, no matter how dirty, I mean, this was key to them surviving. Of the 10,000 people who started on that march with Edward, only around 300 survived. That's a lot. That's a lot of people that die. Like many Armenian refugees,

he was on this march with his family. Like sadly, his aunt, sisters, brothers, they all died on the way to these deportation camps. Besides the exhaustion, the dehydration, starvation, people marching were constantly being attacked by criminals. I mean, they were in the middle of the desert, and the soldiers, they did not care about protecting them. It wasn't about that, okay?

So it was like a free-for-all. In my personal opinion, it just kind of felt like it was a joke to these criminals, okay, because they would just rob the victims of everything they had. And like, again, they were forced to leave and go on this march with nothing. So all they had was, like, their clothing. And these criminals would be like, give me your clothing and, like, just take everything from them. And it was like for wood, you know? Just to be your fucking asshole.

But it wasn't just about losing your material possessions. Like, the Armenians would be tortured and murdered by these criminals for fun. It was all like a freaking game. to them. So let's say like, hey, you're one of the lucky ones who survived the march. So you're like, okay, great. Like, you know, I made it. Like this, it's over, right? No. Once you arrived at a deportation camp, it's not like you could just like take a break and relax, maybe have a meal. No, there was no food or water there. Well, technically there was food, but let me tell you. you the soldiers they um they used to feed the prisoners bread made out of flour and sand yeah it was the

closest thing to food most of these prisoners had in god knows how long so of course they ate it now to be honest the government they expected most of the people to die in the march so when, you know, a lot of people started showing up every day at these camps, one, they were a little upset. Two, there wasn't any like infrastructure to feed and house that many people that were showing up. They were like, you were supposed to die. Shit. Now, inside these camps, horrible conditions. And it was crammed with people. So with that came tons of Disease. Great. So people were constantly getting sick. Of course, there's no doctors available to help. So if you got some kind of sickness, most likely, you were going to die. Another survivor, RPR, Missycheon, described what the camps he'd been to looked like, saying, quote, 60,000 Armenians had been buried under the sand there.

When a sandstorm hit, it would blow away a lot of the sand and uncover those remains. Bones, bones, bones were everywhere then. Wherever you looked, wherever you walked, end quote. That's so sad. For any women or girls who somehow survive the march, they pretty much had three choices. Get abducted and trafficked. Married men from the local military. or work in a brothel.

It's like, which one do you want? Now we don't have many details or data about like women who worked in deportation camp brothels or many accounts from them, but it's safe to assume that they didn't have a choice. But again, like in this situation, just as a woman, like you really, you had to pick your poison. Now, most of the deportation camps were located

in Aleppo, Syria. They were designed by one of the leaders of their Armenian massacres in death camps, Mehmet Talat. Now let me tell you about this guy because he is literally like super villain Satan himself maybe. Yep, sorry. Talat believe the only way to make sure that the Ottoman Empire remained under the control of Turkish Muslims was again to get rid of the Armenians. So he was really like the mastermind of what became known as the Armenian genocide. Talat was known to be like a numbers guy. He's like yeah numbers math. He thought these mass deportations were a simple math equation. The Armenians weren't people to him, you know, they were a number and a problem to solve. So Talat thinks like if he deported hundreds of thousands of

Armenians to the deportation camps in Aleppo, most of them, again, they were not going to survive. So he was shocked to learn that actually he got it wrong. He was told that more than 400,000 people had survived the marches to Aleppo, and he was pissed. And he was angry that he had underestimated the Armenian community. He was like, they were all supposed to die. What are you telling me? What? No. Plus, in deportation camps, there was a small hope that people could like make it out or befriend people in Syria who might help them.

You know, there's hope. Okay. Hope is really like keeping this, there Armenian people going. And to Talat, that was unacceptable. Hope? No. No hope. Talat decided it was finally time to take that little spark of hope away. from the Armenian people. Now he knew he couldn't just like outright kill you know that many people

or else the Ottoman empire might face another war or something from other countries. So he comes up with another idea and he ends up creating like a final destination for these refugees. One that would make these deportation camps seem like Disneyland. One of the art architects behind the Armenian massacres, Mehmet Talat decided to take his deportation policies up a notch. Again, he was angry when he heard so many Armenians were surviving these death marches. You know, that was unacceptable. So Talat started deporting people at the Aleppo camps to other deportation camps within Syria. Now, his soldiers gave people like no warning. before they did this?

I mean, why would they at this point? Shit. Soldiers essentially told the prisoners, you know, start marching to the next camp or die right here, right now. So the people did, you know, they started marching and they would get to the second deportation camp.

And then once they got there, they were told, okay, you're being sent to another camp. So then they would be deported again to another camp immediately. So then they'd go to this other camp And then they get there And then the Armenian people were told Oh guess what? We're sending you to another camp

You know? And they're like, okay So then they start walking, go to another camp And then they get there And then guess what? Oh, hey, you're being sent to another camp So they're just like keeping them going Trying to run them down Trying to like get them to die trying to just get rid of them.

And like sometimes they would send people to all these different camps within the same day. Again, there was no car ride there. They had to walk there. Not down the street. Okay, these were long walks. The goal was to have the Armenians to just like waste away and die of exhaustion.

I mean, they were literally walking and walking and walking and in hopes that they would just die. Now, if they did manage to survive, they would usually end up in a concentration camp. I know, it's like banger after banger here. Geez, I don't know if banger's the right word, but... So they were multiple concentration camps, but the most well-known concentration camp at this time was a place called Daron Zor. Around 30,000 Armenians were marched to this camp, and when they got there, it was clear that this was essentially, a death camp. This is it. We're going to die here, aren't we? There was nothing there, not even shelter.

It was basically just dirt and corpses. They didn't even give the Armenians, you know, the sand bread that they were feeding them in the other camp. If they were lucky, you know, they would be able to eat grass or if they found a dead bird, they could eat that. If people didn't starve to death in this concentration camp, they were tortured to death by government guards or like random criminals who dropped by the camp to just kill them for fun. Now, this place eventually became a mass gravesite for thousands of Armenians. At this point, it's around 1917, okay? And this had been going on for over a year. Over one million Armenians at this. this point had been killed and maybe you're like me and you're wondering like where the hell

was the rest of the world like did they know what was going on did they really have any clue like what was going on well in 1918 there were some journalists missionaries and other writers who were living in the ottoman empire now these people they kind of like secretly were writing about what was really going on, and they managed to get their detailed stories out to the world. Now, when governments from nearby countries read about this, they were shocked. They were like, what? What the bug is going on? What? It became clear that the Ottoman Empire was using World War I as a cover. When the Turkish government found out that these stories made it out to the public, well, they were pissed.

So what they do? They tracked down these, like, journalists and whatnot, and they sent out firing squads to find them and shoot them dead on site. Then the government tried to do some, like, PR damage control and essentially told the world, like, listen, listen, everyone, we're just temper. We're rarely resettling the Armenians. It's not that serious. Calm down.

Have a cup of tea. The Ottoman Empire insisted that they were their own country and they had their own government and they could do whatever they wanted with their people. So, shut up. But it wasn't that easy. So World War I had officially ended, okay, and now people,

were actually paying more attention to what was going on. This had nothing to do with the war at this point. Between 1919 and 1920, on behalf of the Armenians, the new Ottoman Empire government brought several legal cases against the three leaders and other senior officials of these mass murders. Again, a lot kind of like led up to this, okay? Yes. You get it. I only have 45. They only gave me like 45 minutes here. All right. But this led to something called the Istanbul trials. But before the trials and all that could even happen, the three Pashas fled the country in the middle of the night.

Even though they fled the Ottoman Empire, you know, they weren't like going into hiding and all scared. They were like vacationing around Europe, kind of high-fiving themselves for getting a way. with it, escaping trial and also escaping execution. Because they were never formally charged with anything, other governments were not able to arrest them. 150 officials and other Turkish leaders were arrested, charged, and brought to trial in Malta, which was like a neighboring country. But after spending some time in jail, all of these men were released and returned. turn to Turkey. They never faced trial. They never faced jail time. They were just completely free.

Now to the Armenians, it was clear that law and order was not going to apply to these people, especially the Pashas who escaped in the middle of the night. So you know what? They were like, we're going to take matters into our own hands. After Ottoman Empire leaders and officials got away with murdering over one million Armenians, one group called the Armenian Revolutionary Federation or ARF decided to take matters into their own hands. The ARF was mostly made up of scholars or businessmen. Now they were actually in America and as soon as it was clear that the government was not going to be facing any consequences for what they did, the ARF decided you know, we're going to take justice into our own hands.

They came up with an idea. They were going to kill the leaders responsible for the genocide themselves. They called this plan Operation Nemesis. It was called Operation Nemesis because Nemesis was the Greek goddess of retribution, a.k.a. vengeance. But the leaders of ARF, they weren't trained like assassins or spies. So it was like an idea they had, but they were like, how are we actually going to do this? So they outsourced the work to find a better option, you know, to do the actual killings.

So they hired a man named Solomon Tilarion. Solomon was desperate for justice after his entire family was killed in the genocide. One of his first targets was the mastermind behind the deportation and concentration camps, the guy we talked about earlier, Mehmet Talat. Now, Talat was known to have, I guess, a big, like, ass mustache that, you know, was kind of like his look, his thing, and it gave away his identity. So, you know, he's trying to lay low, so he decided to shave it, and he fled to Berlin to avoid trial. But the ARF, they were able to track him down. It's crazy to think, you know, you really got to like Scooby-Doo things back then because, like, there's no social media, there's, like, no Google Maps or anything.

This is in 1920s. So they figured out, they tracked him down. Members or allies of the ARF, they like hung out in different public places where former Turkish government officials were like known to hang out. And they would just like sit there and wait and like ease drop on, you know, their conversations, slowly gathering information to piece together clues about where to let might be hiding in Berlin. So the ARF, you know, they gathered all their information and they figured out where he was and they sent Solomon to Berlin to kill to Latt. So at first they gave Solomon some like very specific instructions. First, they wanted to Latt to be killed in public. And then second, they wanted Solomon to do something kind of risky.

They asked him to stay at the scene of the crime and get caught. I know, it kind of sounds crazy. You think, you know, they'd flee, but no. They want him to stay. They want to, like, make a point out of all of this, okay? So it sounds crazy, but Solomon, he immediately agrees. I mean, he's lost everything. He's like, fuck it, I am.

I don't have, like, what do I have to lose? Fuck yeah. He knew this was, like, part of, something much bigger than himself. So after doing some surveillance for a few weeks, Solomon learned Talat's regular routine. He had a routine. Everyone kind of does. He'd go on like a very specific walk every day. He would kind of just do the same thing. So Solomon felt like he was ready. And on March 15th, 1921, Solomon followed Talat. Now just as Talat walked into like a large crowd.

Solomon came up behind him and point blank shot him in the head. I know. It's a lot. Talat died instantly. Now again, this was in public. So people were, you know, freaking out. Because they don't know the context. They're just like, well, I've just freaking out.

But still, Solomon, he didn't let the screams phase him. He didn't run. and he just calmly stood at the scene of the crime, just waiting. Now eventually, you know, police show up, you know, they arrest him, and this was exactly what the ARF wanted. They didn't want to just quietly kill this guy off. No. They wanted this assassination to make the news

so the whole world would be reminded of what happened to the Armenian people and who was responsible for it and exactly what the Turkish government had gotten away with. I think, too, a lot of people who were like maybe reading the news articles that were coming out about this to dying and whatnot,

it was like kind of maybe the first time people were actually learning the why of it all. You know, it wasn't just like a random murder. It was like, no, this guy did X, Y, and Z. It was like, he was putting the genocide back into the conversation. So Solomon was put on trial. He explained his side of the story, and he told the jury that he felt he had a good reason to kill Talat.

You know, he started to tell the jury stories about how cruel and awful Talat was. He even had receipts. In court, he was able to show messages from Talat with instructions to kill Armenian children, specifically the children who were forced into those orphanages. Now, one of the messages said, quote, Remove the children from orphanages in order to eliminate future danger from antagonistic elements, end quote. But Solomon is like telling his whole story, you know, everything. Many people in other countries knew that terrible things had happened to the Armenians,

but majority had no idea about the real details. So all this was just shocking to hear. The news was picked up all around the country. Now at this point, the motivations of the evil men behind everything couldn't be denied. Their goal was plain and simple and seemed very clear. Exterminate the Armenians. The entire case took less than two days, and Solomon was found innocent. And just like the ARF wanted, there was a ton of publicity and awareness brought to the genocide.

A few other leaders and important people associated with the genocide, they were also assassinated during Operation Nemesis. Sadly, like this was pretty much the only legal justice the Armenians were handed. And then finally, listen, years had gone by, okay? By 1923, the Armenian genocide had come to an official end. Over 1.5 million Armenians had been murdered. Listen, that was more than half of the entire Armenian population. And that didn't even include, like, many young women who were forced to, you know, get married to Sombozo or adopted by different families or forced to just convert.

Does it include, like, the kids in the orphanages, and also like the Armenians who fled to other countries, you know, and had to, like, hide their identities? We just, like, don't really know how many lived or died. And for a long time, they tried to keep that number low. They were like, no, it was only like 3,000 people. Like, no. But thankfully, after World War I ended, the Ottoman Empire was starting to be held accountable for our, their actions. The American ambassador to Armenia described the situation saying, quote, when the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving

the death warrant to a whole race. They understood this well. And in their conversations with me, they made no particular attempt to conceal the fact. End quote. The American ambassador also noted that religion hadn't really been the main focus for the genocide. It was used more so as an excuse. Most of the major leaders of the genocide were considered atheist. So, like, when you think of it, like, none of it makes sense. Okay. It was said they did it for political gain, not religion.

Religion was just like an easy way to cover up the situation. Still very confusing. We know what happened to the Armenians was called the Armenian Genocide, but for a long time, what happened to them didn't even have a name. The word genocide was invented by a man named Raphael Lemkin. In 1941, Raphael was forced to leave his home in Poland as it was being invaded by the Nazis. Now, he escaped, but sadly he lost most of his family in the holidays. Now, it was devastating to him that millions of people who were killed were just seen as collateral damage when the truth was they had been targeted for being Jewish.

When Raphael learned about what happened to the Armenians in, you know, the Ottoman Empire, he decided to, he's like, hey, there needs to be like a name for this. So he came up with the word genocide. He combined the ancient Greek word genos, meaning race, tribe, and the Latin word side, meaning killing. Words. And it's thanks to him in a really, kind of in a dark way that we even have to come up with this word, but it's thanks to him that, you know, we have the word genocide, and we call it the Armenian genocide. I live in Los Angeles, and every single year there's like a major march in remembrance of the Armenian genocide. Entire streets are shut down.

There are thousands of marches and memorials across the world like this. But still, millions of people today, like still deny or don't like to acknowledge that the Armenian genocide happened. I know. It seems a little weird, huh? You think like, you know, like it happened. Just say it happened. Like even today in 2025, the country of Turkey does not recognize that the Armenian genocide happened. They don't like to talk about it, think about it, mention it, none of that.

And maybe you're like me and you think like, well, why not just admit what happened? You know? Why not just acknowledge it? It just happened. The only way to, like, heal and move forward and be better is to acknowledge and move forward. Forgive, hopefully, and right? Well, there's a reason, though, listen, because in my research, I learned that Turkey is an important ally to a lot of powerful nations, including the United States. And something else I learned, the United States did not officially call the events in Armenia a genocide for almost a hundred years because they didn't want to piss off Turkey.

But then, in April of 2021, on the anniversary of the Armenian genocide, President Joe Biden finally did. He issued a statement saying, quote, each year on this day, we remember the lives of all those who died in the Ottoman era. Armenian genocide and recommit ourselves to preventing such an atrocity from ever again occurring, end quote. In 2023, California's governor, Newsom, he declared April 24th as a day of remembrance of the Armenian genocide. To be acknowledged, I feel like at the end of the day that's all people really want it's just to be acknowledged, just acknowledged it happened. But even though this happened so long, ago, millions of families have suffered generational trauma because of this. There's still a lot of pain. And yeah, I remember, like, growing up, I would hear about it, but, like, no one would

talk about it. And it was always kind of like, how come? Like, why not? It was very confusing. And then during quarantine is when I really got into, like, working on a family tree. And when it came to the Armenian side of the family, I was having such a hard time because so many records and everything just got lost. And names got changed. And it was complicated. And I was like, what? What? And I just really dove deep into trying to understand, like, what happened?

Because obviously, I have no understanding of, like, what really happened. And it was cool. I found my great, I think it's my great, great grandpa, his, like, certificate when he came to Ellis Island. I found that. And I was like, cool. I don't know. That's my story.

Anyways, lots of pain. But, you know, sometimes it leaves you thinking, like, you know, okay, well, what can I do? What can I do to help? I don't know. One of the most important things you can do is fight something called denialism. It sounds silly. But there are thousands of documents and photos about what happened and keeping the memory of what happened in the genocide alive, as sad as it is. silences the deniers. Throughout history, I mean, genocides have tried to erase entire communities,

you know, try to strip people of their voices, their culture, their communities, their humanity. But here's the thing, I mean, people are never defined solely by, like, what's been done to them. You can try to bury people, but like seeds, they rise. And what grows out of that pain is, is often... Sorry, I'm getting emotional. Don't cry. I don't want to ruin the makeup. I'm not sad.

Disneyland. I'm happy. Bicycles. And what grows out of that pain is often something stronger, more united, more unbreakable. Sorry, I'm getting teary

just because, like, you know what's going on in the world right now. know. I don't even say it. So it's just like a, you know, just, fucking jet. Like, it's just so lame. Genocides are lame. Put that on a shirt. So if there's a lesson here, it's that remembering matters, telling the truth matters. Because when we give power to truth, we not only honor those who came before us, but like,

We can also protect those who are coming after us. McDonald's, McDonald's, French fries, happiness, unicorns. And that, my friends, is how resilience becomes legacy. Anywho, genocide, huh? Not great. But do you know what's great? Movies. There's a hard pivot here, okay?

for our next episode of Dark History. So one of my favorite movies growing up has a cult following. It was made in 1939, and it changed everything. Not only was this the biggest budget movie Hollywood had ever seen, but it tried some risky things that no other movie studio had ever dared to do. But you know what they say?

No risk, no reward. There were crazy stunts, toxic making, makeup, drugs, oh, lots of drugs, and even munchkin rachers. I'm talking about the notorious, the violent, and the shocking history of the making of the Wizard of Oz. Woo! I know. Genocide to Wizard of Oz? How'd we do it? I don't know. Our show is wild. Should we dress up? Wizard of Oz? What do you guys think? Yeah, I think we should.

Now, listen, I'd love to hear your guys' reactions to today's story. Be nice. Make sure to leave a comment below so I can see what you guys are saying, and your comment might even be featured in a future episode. Now, let's read a couple of comments that you guys have left me. Marie-Louise Durette 09-left us a comment on YouTube saying, quote, Hi, Bailey.

Hi, hi, Marie. Can we have some backstory details about your co-host Paul and Joan? Think this could be really interesting. Like, how did you guys meet? What have they done prior to working with you? End quote. We do go back, especially me and Paul. Me and Paul go way back.

Joan showed up. She just landed on my couch one day in like season one of Dark History. She just landed and hung out. And like, I was like, okay. But I met Paul. at del taco um and you know I was in line and I was like hey can I get that what is that eight layer burrito that shit's fire um or is it seven layers you know no and then Paul was there and he was like ordering Diet Coke or something like that and I was like oh my God I love Diet Coke so

we just like really hit it off um and I was like hey we should be friends like you should come over for dinner so I invited Paul over for dinner and I don't know if any of you guys follow me on Instagram like many years ago. Paul used to sit with me at the dinner table. I was single. I lived alone. He kept me company. And we just been by each other's side since since then. And it's been beautiful. It's been a beautiful love story. Joan, she just flew her way in here and demanded a paycheck. And honestly good for her. can't seem to get rid of her. She's a heavy smoker. I don't know if we know that. We have to like stop every five minutes so she can go outside for her smoke break.

If you could hear her talk, she's like talks like a freaking, I can't do it. But yeah, she loves a parliament light. The skinny ones, the 100s. Yeah, she's a little fancy. Maybe even a Virginia slim from time to time. But yeah, that's some backstory. Al Taco. Sponsorship. Anyways, yeah, thanks for asking. Friends, they're fun. Amy Louise commented on our toxic baby products episode on Spotify, saying, quote, I have an empty bottle of the soothing syrup.

Really? It's one of my favorite morbid items that I own. It's a beautiful embossed glass bottle, a sad reminder of the past, but a good point to show how far we've come, end quote. Wow. I'm one of those people where if I go thrifting or to an antique store, I love old, like, vintage bottles and stuff, like medicine bottles and stuff. Oh, it's so cool.

I love that back then. Like, they were really fancy. Now medicine bottles, like, come in, like, those plastic fucking orange things that, like, are just ugly. I feel like medicine bottles back then, like, you'd want to leave them out because they were kind of pretty. I say bring back the soothing syrup. It sounded le.

I'm just kidding. But that's so cool. I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Tamara Eads 3650 left us an episode suggestion. Hi, Bailey. You should do an episode on the dark history of the Wonder Woman creator.

He invented the lie detector. Love you, end quote. Love you too. Really? I feel like I've heard this somewhere and flashback is coming back. Interesting. What's the correlation there, Wonder Woman and lie detector? That's really random.

Lie detector tests? I don't even know why we still do them, huh? Because like hasn't it been proven over and over again that they're not reliable, but we still freaking do them? it's so annoying but like it's crazy to invent that and then go from that to like Wonder Woman or did Wonder Woman come first

and then line detector interesting I have a lot of questions I think that's a really good idea thank you for the suggestion and I will look into it thank you guys so much for hanging out with me watching engaging

commenting make sure to leave a comment because maybe you will be featured in a future episode Also, did you know you can join me over on my YouTube where you can actually watch these episodes on Thursday after the podcast airs. And while you're there, you can also catch my murder, mystery, and makeup, which drops on Mondays. Hello. So don't forget to subscribe because I got something new for you all the time, baby.

And hey, if you don't know, dark history is an audio boom original. I want to give a big special thank you to our. expert, Umit Kurt, Professor of History and an affiliated member of the Center of Study of Violence at the University of Newcastle, Australia, and the author of The Armenians of Aintab, The Economics of Genocide in an Ottoman province. And I'm your host, Bailey Sarian. I hope we have a good day today. You make good choices. And I'll be talking to you guys later. Goodbye. Bye!