Dark History - 79: Cannibalism, Child-Trafficking, and Strip-tease: the Truth that Disney Buried | Dark History with Bailey Sarian

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Welcome to the Dark History podcast. Princesses. They’re gorgeous, they’re happy, they’re all sparkles and rainbows and everything good. But what if I told you the stories behind some of our favorite princesses are dark? Like DARK dark. In today’s episode, we look at some of our favorite fairy tales and their origin story. And to no ones surprise… Disney didn’t exactly get it right.  Episode Advertisers Include: June's Journey, Apostrophe, ZocDoc Inc, and ZipRecruiter. Learn more during the podcast about special offers!

Hi friends, I hope you're having a wonderful day today. My name is Bailey Sarian and I'd like to welcome you to my study. And to my podcast, Dark History, now if you're new here, this is a chance to tell the story like it is and to share the history of stuff, I don't know. Many of us would never think about. So all you have to do is sit back, relax, and let me just ramble on about that hot juicy history goss. Because there's so much of it. Oh my god. First and foremost, we have to recognize Joan. Joan, you're looking fabulous. Now if you're listening on the podcast, Joan, my sidekick here, is one-hoping me by dressing up like the little mermaid.

Does that have to do with today's topic, Joan? Are you giving us a little clue? Or are you just trying to look fabulous? I don't know. See those new tits really paid off, huh? Looking good. Anyhow, so a little spoiler, you know? Growing up, I'm sure a lot of us could say,

we love Disney, right? Oh, I loved going, remember the Disney store at the mall? Do you remember those? Ah, ah, they had everything. They had princess outfits. They got the shoes, the accessories, the freaking cassette tapes, the CDs. I mean, it felt like being in a designer store, except accessories, the freaking cassette tapes, the CDs.

I mean, it felt like being in a designer store, except Disney, you know? And everything was so freaking expensive. And since Aladdin was my all time favorite Disney movie, I obviously wanted some Princess Jasmine Swack. I mean, I wanted to be Princess Jasmine. Oh my God. I'll have to insert a picture of me and Jasmine here.

I wanted to be Princess Jasmine. She had the tiger. She was just gorgeous Middle Eastern Princess. She was rich. What else did she, poor thing? That was all she really had going for. And I wanted to be that. So I was shocked.

Nay, shooketh. When I heard one of my friends tell me that she was not allowed to watch Aladdin growing up because of how controversial it was. And to me it was like, what? It is? Why? So obviously I went down a rabbit hole trying to get to the bottom of this controversy, which started when the movie came out in 1993. Because it turns out it was showing some pretty bad stereotypes about Middle Eastern culture. I mean, first of all, Arabic names are mispronounced throughout the movie, and the store signs in the marketplace that look like they're written in Arabic, like in the background. Turns out it's not even, it's not Arabic.

It's just scribbles. Ha ha ha ha ha. Literally scribbles. Ah, my God, I didn't know. There were even like some lyrics from that opening song that stirred up a lot of controversy. Here's a little refresher in case you don't recall.

Oh, I come from a land from a far away place with a caravan camel's room. Would they cut off your ear? I'm really giving. I'm really trying to give. Would they cut off your ear if they don't like your face? It's barbaric, but hey, it's home. I think I got that beat, right? Let me know. Yeah, so excuse me, cutting off your ear, but hey, it's home. I think I got that beat, right? Let me know. So excuse me, cutting off your ear, barbaric,

in the first 30 seconds of a kid movie. So this made a lot of people upset. So Disney ended up changing these lyrics after the release date because they were so offensive in the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, protested hard. And let's not forget about how Aladdin and Jasmine traveled around on a pet carpet,

which the pet carpet was actually, or is actually a sacred prayer rug. And I guess breaking news here, they can't fly. But the imagination of it all, I guess that's the debate. I don't know. What's even crazier to me is that when I dug into the original Aladdin story, the one that I thought came from the old storybook Arabian Nights, it turns out it doesn't exist. Aladdin is actually an ancient Chinese story.

Yeah, Aladdin, he was Chinese. Some French dude in the 1700s was writing a translation of Arabian knights, happened to hear a version of Aladdin and the lamp, and figured, nah, you know, China's close enough to Arabia, so let's just make it work. But this is just the tip of the iceberg, because I got to looking into the origins of some of my other favorite childhood movies and fairy tales. And of course, once again, turns out none of them are good. Oh yes, behind all of them there's actually a horror story. They just threw some glitter on it.

Made it pretty. But turns out some of the original fairy tales that inspired the Disney movies were very dark and specifically made for adults. Way back before most people were literate and there were like books to read, people relied on oral stories. Go ahead and giggle you pervs. I said it once and I'm gonna say it again, oral stories. But that was the only way you could hear your favorite stories back then. I mean someone remembered the whole entire thing and then would repeat it to you. People usually told each other these stories to pass the time while they were doing chores, like sewing, washing clothes, fixing stuff. I mean this essentially was the original version

of keeping the podcast on while folding the laundry. And sometimes, you want a story that's a little naughty. And that's when Little Red Riding Hood enters the chat. You little slut. Just getting yellow. The story we all know and love goes something like this. A little girl named Little Red Riding Hood, because why not give her a name based on what she's wearing? Well, one day Little Red's mom is trying to get her out of the house or something, you know,

because she asks little red to go take some food to her grandmother who lives on the other side of the deep, dark woods. You know, red, she's down, she's like, Sherma, I'll do whatever. So she puts on her signature like red-hoded cloak, grabs a basket of muffins, and goes on her merry way to see her grandmother. She's in the middle of the woods when she gets stopped by a wolf, not just any wolf, a talking wolf. And for whatever reason, none of this concerns little red, because she goes and tells him all about her grandma where she lives and just basically setting up a nice little buffet for the wolf. The wolf could have just eaten little red then and there, but he's playing a twisted game of chess, or maybe he just likes to play with his food. But anyways, but he suggests that red picks some flowers for her grandmother

along the way and points her in the right direction, giving her a little bit of a detour. So red is like, oh my god, wolf, great idea. Thanks. And she skips off her merry way. Meanwhile, the wolf heads over to grandma's house where he eats her, dresses in her clothes, and waits in her bed for little red to come and knock in.

When red shows up to, you know, see her grandmother, instead, the wolf lures her closer and closer to the bed until she's close enough to snatch and gobble her right up, right at this exact moment. A random passing huntsman hears the commotion. Bussen to the house cuts open the wolf and I guess has this whole Jonah and the whale situation because you know magically both little red and grammar still alive in the wolf and they all live happily ever after. It's so cute isn't it? I mean it's a happy ending except for the wolf. And little red learns a solid lesson about stranger danger. I mean, it's a pretty dark story,

if you think about it, but oh, friends, it pales in comparison to their original. So in the French version, because there's a French version, adults were sharing theirs orally in the 1400s. And in their version, little red wasn't that little. Oh, no, no, no. In this one, red was quote, a seductive young woman who performed a strip tease for the big, bad wolf. Oh, yeah. Oh, what?

Yeah. In this version, the wolf tells little red to get into bed with him, but she's like, wait, what do I do with my apron? I mean, that wouldn't be my first question if Grandma asked me to get into bed with her own naked, but you know, on the her, we're not judging. Anyway, the wolf says, you don't need that apron,

throw it in the fire. So the strip tease keeps going. And in my mind, this is when Little Red hits play on like her boom box and starts blasting stripper music. Milk shake, sorry, I'm just trying to think of something other than milk shake, but it's totally fine. She starts blasting milk shake as she's undressing. And then Little Red is like, what next grandma?

Are she proceeds to take off her skirt, her socks, her fricking bustle, you know, whatever they were wearing, the clothing they were wearing. And for every item of clothing, the wolf tells her to throw it in the fire. You don't need it. Hot. Yeah. Except he's a wolf. So that's a minor detail.

Anyway, in this version, no one saves little red. She just ends up getting eaten and dies, and I guess she deserved it. Because according to the culture at this time, if you are a stripped-easing little slut, you deserve to get eaten. It was just big, you know, sluts shaming, keeping women in their plate to the story.

So the story morphs over time as different cultures are telling it and sharing it, and by the 1600s, different versions of Little Red Riding Hood are popping up all over the world, and being told to children, as well as adults. And if there's one thing people were trying to convince little girls about in those days, it was to protect your virginity at all costs. I mean, being virginal and pure back then was everything. That was your whole life. If you had sex too early, mm-hmm. We've talked about this so many times. Your trash, right? Not now. Back then, reputation ruined. Many want to marry. mmm, disappeared, banish. But parents could enforce this by telling kids a little story

about little ride riding hood. A pretty young woman who goes into the woods, meets a predator, puts her trust in him, and gets, quote unquote, devoured as a result. Very child-friendly, but the best way to teach child anything, or teach anyone anything, is to instill fear in them. I'm gonna die. You know, it's like a game of telephone. The story morphs as different people tell it. I mean, at one point, the big bad wolf is actually a werewolf. It gives team wolf vibes.

But finally, in the late 1600s, the oral version of Little Red is finally written down and recorded. But here's a little twist. In the first published version of the story, Little Red is drumroll please. A cannibal! Love, very unbranded for me. Ah, cannibals just fascinate me. The end. Thank you for coming to the show. So yes, she heads into the woods with

her snacks for granny and meets the wolf, but once the wolf gets to grandma's, he doesn't eat grandma. He instead attacks her, kills her, and then proceeds to cut her into little pieces. Then he puts those chunks onto a platter, like he's Jeffrey Dahmer serving his masterpiece or something. I don't know. And drains poor granny's blood into a bottle. Then he dresses up and grandma's clothes

and waits for little red. When she shows up, she tells her grandma that she's pretty hungry from her long journey. And the wolf is like, ooh, well there's meat and wine in the pantry for you help yourself. Red drinks the bottle of her grandma's blood and then eats her grandma. Yeah, because he served it to her, right?

So she doesn't know she's eating her grandma. She's like, what is this? Chicken, I love this. And then out of nowhere, a cat enters the story. A freaking cat shows up and calls her a slut for eating and drinking her grandma. I know it's like what is even going on? There's a laco happening right now. Even in the cannibal version, they found a way to slutshame. Little red? Are you sure dead?

Here's the thing I always wondered. Why the red hood? I mean, everyone loves a statement piece. But it always seems like a lot. One thing that's been consistent throughout this whole story is the red hood. Well, it is called Little Red Riding Hood Bailey, so I can't really improvise that

much. But okay, so I looked into, is there some kind of symbolism here? What I came to find out was that Little Red was actually just a symbol for female sexuality. Oh yeah, many scholars have theorized that little red story is actually about a girl becoming a woman. I'm not a girl. Not yet a woman. You see that? Thank you. So when she's in the woods, she's in her sexual prime, which is why the wolf is drooling all over her and ultimately trying to get into her bed. And the red cloak was a choice because it represents her period, right? So I was like, oh wow, that's crazy. Her hood represents blood. That makes sense.

According to Nora Cataly, a professor at the University of Barcelona, little red's cloak thing represents a big red throbbing clit. What? Yeah, which is why in the French version, Little Red was maybe super horny, and they believed that she was basically, quote, unquote, asking for it. In 1922, the Little Red writing hood was actually one of Disney's first cartoons. They took some liberties, we could say. I mean, the whole thing kind of looks like an acid trip. Little Red drives a go-kart, and on her way to grandma, she gets a flat tire. She replaces it with a doughnut, a literal doughnut from her basket.

And she replaces it, which is like easy peasy, whatever, with some help from her dog. And little red stops to dance with the flower. And this creepy man, not a wolf, a man stops and watches her. He drives to grandma's house, sees a note that says, be back soon. And then this gives him an idea. He uses some magic to shrink his car and puts it in his pocket, naturally, and shows himself inside to wait for red. Little red lets herself into her grandma's place, and as soon as she's in there, the man attacks her. Her dog sees this and goes to find help, and a guy with an airplane ends up saving the day and dropping the predator into a lake nearby.

Wow. At the end of the day, I think Little Red teaches us a few important lessons. Um, don't go into the woods without your pepper spray. And never do a strip tease for your grandma. And also, I don't know. Use protection. I don't really know. I think my personal, because I think the whole point of these stories and sharing these

stories is to teach some kind of bigger life lesson. With little red, it fit whatever the narrative was at the time. So as of now, I think little red kind of represents like don't talk to strangers and like tell them where you're going and stuff. But throughout history, it's just been such a different mix of meanings and whatnot. So it's just fascinating. I mean, the strip tease one was like, wow, they really went for it. Like, work bitch.

Anyway, so I would love to hear your interpretation of Little Red Riding Hood. I think it's, don't talk to Stranger. This episode. This next story kicks off in the year 1998, and it went on to make over $300 million. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm talking about Mulan. I loved Mulan. That original cartoon one.

Not only was Mulan the first Disney princess who was not born into a royal family, she also wasn't sent off to marry some sexual predator or a prince. I don't know, they just always be kissing up on these princesses, aggressively. Anyways, on top of that, her story is all about courage, independence,

and serious girl power. But the most important game-changing aspect about this movie is that Mulan was the first princess to come from an Asian country. Let's get down to business. To defeat the hans, right? And remember Shang, the character Shang. If you haven't seen Mulan, sorry, excuse me. If you haven't seen Mulan, Shang, is this cartoon character that looked way too sexy for no damn reason.

He is just coming out with his pecs and abs and I was like, wow, hi. How are you? Who are you? You're drawing? I will marry you. Like I really wanted him to tie me up and make a man out of me.

You know, but here's a thing, while everyone in the west was saying hello to this brand new princess and losing their damn minds. Back in the east, specifically China, the story of Mulan is one that goes back four centuries. And the girl America came to love actually, of course, has quite a controversial history because they have actually been a bunch of versions of the character Mulan. And all of them have added to her beloved iconic status. And the story of Mulan, just like little red, there are a ton of different versions to it. It first shows up about 1,500 years ago and 500 AD. In this first version of Mulan, as a formal story came in the form of a song, a ballad. This ballad was 300 lines long and people memorized this whole thing.

So this goes to show you how important this story was to so many people. Many people were singing the ballad of Mulan for two major reasons. One, so they could pass the time while they were working, and two, to distract themselves from the dark reality of life in China at the time. You see Mulan shows up during something called the way dynasty. And during this time, war was kind of an everyday reality. There was lots of fighting, lots of death. So the story begins with Mulan sitting at a loom, weaving together a bunch of cloth. It's pretty clear that she seems to be Bordicell and is looking for more out of life. But then the leader of China at the time, the Khan, sends word out to all the villages that he's

putting an army together to go to war. And Mulan's dad was on the list of recruits. But there's one big problem. Papa Mulan is very old. But he didn't have an adult son. That's normally who would replace a father who can't go off to battle. So our girl Mulan decides, uh, screw it, Alco, and I'm gonna pretend that I'm a man. No, no, no. Mulan heads off to the market in the east where she buys a horse. She hits up a market in the west where she scoops a saddle and then shoots over to the market in the south where she picks up a bridle, which are, you know, the reins that control the horse. And finally, she gets her weapon of choice at the market in the north, a long... whip. She returns home, she puts on some armor, says goodbye to her mother and father, and then heads out... heads out to the war. According to the Ballad, after 10,000 miles on horseback

through dangerous mountain passes, she goes straight to battle. Now the song doesn't give a ton of information about what Mulan did while she was in the army, but we do know she was off in battle for something like 12 straight years. Yeah. Damn, that's a long time. During that time, generals were dying left and right. But did Mulan? No, of course not. She's a survivor. It's safe to assume that she fought like a total badass and killed a bunch of enemy soldiers because when she returned to the Imperial Palace, the Khan says that she can have whatever she wants. Money, a job in the government, whatever. But Mulan only wants one thing, a camel that she can ride 10,000 miles back home, which is exactly what she did along with some

of her buddies from the army. When she gets back home, her mom, dad, and little sister and little brother are like, what? Their heads are exploding. Holy crap, Mulan is back. She did that! What? Their heads are exploding. Holy crap, Mulan is back. She did that. Good for her. And they knew she would like went off to war, but they were really surprised she actually survived,

let alone made it all the way back home. Incredible. Everyone rejoices, and they prepare for the feast, celebration feast. But before that, Mulan heads inside, goes up to her bedroom and takes off her quote, war time down. She then puts on her quote, old time clothes, which sounds just like normal clothes. Mulan then fixes her hair up, throws on her little makeup, and then heads back outside. But when

she gets outside, some of her old army pals are still there, and they see her as a woman for the first time. And they're like, wuh, huh, what? They had no idea. Their jaw hits the floor. I mean, Mulan just revealed to them that she has been a woman this whole time. Huh? Everyone be shooketh.

All 12 years, she was fighting beside these guys, and they were like, we had no idea you were a lady, which was so confusing to me. So I'm like, you're telling me she was rolling with these guys for 12 years, fighting battles, traveling around China and not once did anyone notice that, I don't know. Something was a little different.

She bled for a week or so. I don't know. Like not to stereotype guys, but they really aren't the most observant, are they? Like I can totally believe this because you could shave your head and your husband would be like, how's your day to day? Anyways, so I had a lot of questions, but who cares? It's a magical story. I'm not gonna take that away from you and me. In the end, Mulan defends herself and stays a hero. But in another version, the ending takes us seriously dark Turned when Mulan returns home after years of fighting. She finds out that her father is dead

Sad and not only that her mom has already moved on and is remarried. Okay, lots of changes happening right? And then once her female identity is exposed, the King orders Mulan to become his concubine, aka his sex slave. Mulan decides she'd literally rather die. So she goes to her father's grave, says that the only man she will ever be loyal to is her dad, and then slits her own throat.

The end, like what? Oh shit, that's dark. That's the movie I wanna see. That's, ooh, but if you've seen the original 1998 Disney movie, you might be thinking, hey, the original ballot of Mulan is missing a couple of things. Namely, where the hell is out, wise cracking sidekick, Moushou. You know, he was a dragon. Where was he? And where the hell is the love story? Well, you know how Disney does it.

They got to add some flavor love story? Well you know how Disney does it. They gotta add some flavor and sparkle and you know, make it new, and they did just that. But I hate to break it to you. There isn't actually a small talking dragon or a magical little cricket. I know I'm so sorry about that, but they definitely did not exist. I'm so sorry, I know. Spoiler. They weren't even a part of the original story of Mulan.

And in fact, the original myth is all about bravery, strength, and transformation. And it's truly a real feminist tale. Now here's the thing about the story of Mulan. Because the main character is a woman taking matters into her own hands. It's always been a bit polarizing for some people. And as we've learned during our journey together

throughout dark history, strong women, yay, not really well-liked throughout history, huh? Take, for example, when the Ming Dynasty rolled around in China, the Sierra took place from about the year 1300 to 1600. And this was a time when the focus was on entertainment. The people just wanted to be entertained. I mean, all the time. And they were tired of reading words.

Now, because of all this, I mean, studying classic literature wasn't as important. To be fair, they were probably making the classic literature at that time. So, along comes this playwright who put together his take on the Mulan story. He called it female Mulan joins the army taking her father's place. Like wow, what a title, huh? Just really getting to the point there.

Apparently this whole play was filled with naughty humor and excessive rhodoka, which nothing wrong with that. But in the play, when Mulan transformed from a girl to a boy, she does this by changing clothes in front of the whole audience. It came off like a strip tease or a burlesque Mulan. And leading up to this Mulan story was all about elevating women and power men. Ooh, yeah baby, but this version started to objectify women. And Mulan seems to be almost obsessed with just looking good for men instead of defending her family's honor. Which is like, okay, no, I don't know. Now before this, only a handful of writers and poets even mentioned Mulan, much less told

her entire story. But after this steamy play went mainstream, authors and historians became more interested in the tale of Mulan. And here's a little fun fact. Some researchers believe that Mulan could possibly be based on a true story. They found skeletons of woman warriors in East Asia, and these skeletons appear to show signs that they were one's horseback writers. On top of that, a pattern of marks on their shoulder bones indicate they also practiced archery. It's so cool. Oh, oh, so cool. I mean, there's maybe like some truth to this story. I like to think it's real. Mulan is a badass story, whether it's true or not, you know,

I think it is. And you can't take that from me. I mean, not the ending. It's pretty well, whatever. It's her story, not mine. Now, we'll never know for sure if Mulan is based off a true story or not. But this next story we're going to talk about is definitely true and definitely horrible.com-dark-history. Now this next movie we're going to talk about is very emotional for me because it contains a song that just had such an impact on me throughout my childhood and my adulthood. Okay, it's my happy song. I love this song and it makes me cry. I love it. Colors of the Wind. Bitch. Yeah, I'm talking about Pocahontas right now. But have you listened to Colors of the Wind? I can make a whole episode about why Colors of the Wind is an incredible song. I cried to that song at least once a month.

Okay, when the movie Pocahontas came out, the animated version from 1995, people were pretty surprised. I mean, it was a very ball, it was very ballsy of Disney to do another multicultural movie, especially after all the Aladdin controversy, but it was actually kind of the perfect moment to take a risk like this in their eyes. The economy was having a good moment so people were popping out babies, boom, left, right. There was a lot of immigration into the US and America was continuing to become more and more diverse. Love to see it good for her, you know. Now more than ever, there was a desire for more diverse stories on screen.

Pocahontas was going to be different than all the other animated movies out there. I mean, first of all, Pocahontas was going to be based on a real historical figure who was also a woman of color. Gas. What? Huh? I know. Whoa.

Disney's doing it. And this movie wasn't just going to be another damsel-and-distress love story. The president of Disney Animation at the time even said the point of Pocahontas was to quote, offer an ennobling and empowering view of Native Americans that hadn't been provided in cinema before. End quote, so the studios got experts to advise them on how to portray Pocahontas the right way. And they really made it seem like they covered all of their bases here.

They were trying. The movie ended up being all about a young princess named Pocahontas, who becomes the peacemaker between her tribe, the Poetans, and the English settlers who show up to steal her people's land in the early 1600s, and in True Kids' movie fashion, one of Pocahontas' parents, her mom, was dead. Of course, always, there's always a dead parent in Disney movies. It's usually the mother. Also, in the movie is Pocahontas' father, chief Poetan, and her sidekick, a raccoon named Miko,

and flit, a sassy little hummingbird. In the movie, Pocahontas, she has a close connection with her best friend, Nakoma, and grandmother Willow, who's like this very wise smart tree. She always had knowledge, wise grandmother knowledge. I don't drink that milk. It's expired. Very wise tree.

The movie also revolves around Pocahontas' relationship with a mussely blonde English settler named John Smith. And he was a total babe. John and his settlers are led by an evil governor who takes over the land that Pocahontas grew up on and treats the local tribes horribly. Pocahontas and John teach each other about their culture and traditions and languages. And a bunch happens.

But in the end, pretty much, Pocahontas saves John from being killed by her tribe. And John is like, I love you, Pocahontas. Come with me. come live with me, Puganis. And she's like, I can't, I'm so bound. So romantic. And they say goodbye. And we end the movie like on a really sad note, spoiler, I know. But it's very touching. Wow, it really is. But also just the sadness of the movie, it's like it doesn't even bother you because the songs are so beautiful. So just the sadness of the movie, it's like it doesn't even bother you because the songs are so beautiful.

Now, if you're like me, you've probably heard all of your life, people say, you know that PocoHannis is nothing like the movie, right? And I mean, we all know movies are not 100% true. There definitely was no funny raccoon or hummingbird, I know that. And if you're a dark history listener and just someone who knows a thing or two about history,

you know the relationship between the indigenous tribes and English quote unquote settlers, were way worse than what they'd show in the kids movie. But I mean, it's also way darker than that. And when I was looking into this, it was a lot. We really could have just done a whole episode on this. We really could have. I thought about it.

Still could, like a bonus. I don't know. Just know that there are so many takes on the history and just a lot of different opinions in general about this story, but this is what I found. First of all, the real Pocahontas, her birth name, was Amma Nute and Pocahontas, her birth name, was Ammanute and Pocahontas was just a nickname, which roughly translates as, quote, playful one.

Something your dad would call you or something, but it was definitely not her real name and not a very respectful thing for anyone else to call you. It's kind of like if they made a movie about me in a couple hundred years and it was called Shithead. And it was like, oh, but that's just the name we gave her. It's cute. It's cute.

And I'm like, okay, sure, fuck. So the title itself was a lie. It was a name given to her by white people, the real version. So it's not off to a good start. Around the time the movie was set, I'm a newtay was young and not a stacked 25-year-old like she was in the movie. And it seems to be true that her mother died.

And also Pocahontas was her father's favorite, also just like in the movie. But the John Smith stuff mostly BS. Camilla Townsend, a Pocahontas scholar and professor, studied documents about John Smith. And she found evidence that John and Ammanute did spend time with one another. I mean, there are notes of his from the 1600s that say,

quote, tell Pocahontas to bring me three baskets, end quote. Or, Pocahontas has many white beads. We don't know exactly how they were able to teach each other words and customs from their cultures, but they did find a way to communicate. And I mean, the two of them, they were on a nickname basis if he was calling her Pocahontas, but they were not romantically involved. And they never were. Camilla points that history shows John Smith made the love story himself. She once said in an interview, quote, that story that Pocahontas was head over heels

and love with John Smith has lasted for many generations. He mentioned it himself in the colonial period, end quote. What's even more wild is that John first met on my new day in 1607 when she was just a kid. Some sources say she was between the ages of 8 and 10 and John Smith was 27. Hmm. Nice. John Smith in the movie is portrayed as his hot steamy Ken Barbie man.

Just ready to like open his eyes to Pocahontas' culture. In reality, John Smith's surprise surprise, was a jerk. He was described as being militant and was feared by many indigenous people because he was known to hold tribe chiefs at gunpoint, demanding food, and supplies for his people. In John Smith's side, the storyline that any of these indigenous women in any of the nearby tribes would be loving towards a settler, who is literally destroying their homes, is also total BS. I don't know why it paused there, but it's BS. When the English settlers came to town and decided to take over, they pretty much immediately stole from the tribes and even sexually assaulted

indigenous women. All this after the settlers took after their home. The real story of Pocahontas starts basically as soon as the first Pocahontas movie ends. Do you remember the movie's love triangle? Should I marry Cocoa? Stadia is the beating drum. Ah, that's such a good song.

The soundtrack. I don't know why it speaks to me so much, but it does. Don't take it for me. Now, get this. In real life, I'm a newte. She ends up marrying Cocoaum. Yeah, they got married when she was 14. Good for her.

They even have a son together, little Cocoa. Sadly though, they don't get to live happily ever after. When Ammanute was a teenager, not long after she had her son, she was kidnapped by English settlers and forced onto a boat headed for England. Now there are so many accounts as to why Ammanute was on the boat, but one thing is for sure. Ammanute did not want to go with them.

She was straight up kidnapped and she was supposed to be returned to her tribe. But instead, the settlers gave her tribe a copper pot as like a trade-off kind of. Here's a pot, we'll take her. It's even been said that Ammanute wrote the word help on the pot, so her tribe would know that she did not go with the people willingly. Now, as soon as she was secured on the boat, her kidnappers went to her tribe and killed her husband, Cocoaum.

Yeah. They probably knew he'd be pissed and tried to rescue her. So, Ammanute and her family were absolutely devastated, especially her father. I mean, she's kidnapped. And they're being assholes, a little tribe. There was nothing they could do to get her back without violence, which was against their people's beliefs. And Chief Poetan knew if they tried to rescue Ammanute, the English settlers would get their revenge and there would be bloodshed like that was a promise.

So because of all this, Pocahontas would never get to go back home again. It kinda reminds you of something called human trafficking, right? Zipper Grooter, the smartest way to hire. So Ammanute lived most of her life as a prisoner with the English, and the whole time, she was just like in a really bad place.

She silently submitted for the sake of the safety of her tribe and her own survival, and sadly, the settlers took advantage of Ammanute being submissive. Her captors had no plans of sending her back to her home. They made it their mission to brainwash her into thinking everything she knew about home was a lie. For example, they told her that her father never loved her and had many opportunities to rescue her, but he chose not to.

Doesn't this sound like a murder mystery story? Mm-hmm. It does. Like a lot of the people who can app people, they play these sick games. It's so gross. They're telling her like no one's looking for you. Sorry, no one likes you. And she eventually believes it and just stays put according to indigenous foundation.org. I'm a newty was being dragged from town to town as a prop. And that quote, there were many English individuals who disapproved and were against the injustice

that indigenous groups endured at the hands of colonization. As a result, Ammanute was brought to England as a political symbol, a show of peace between English settlers and indigenous groups. Essentially, her English captors needed to make sure the money would keep flowing so

they could build their settlements. So they dragged Ammanute along and made it seem like she wanted to be there. At some point Ammanute did come across John Smith again. And even though we don't exactly know what their reunion was like, Ammanute was angry at the way John Smith had treated her, people, and how he had betrayed the tribes. And what's worse, Ammanute was even allegedly raped by her captors. It was during this time that she started to have a mental breakdown, and was becoming

more and more withdrawn. The settlers were probably panicking on what to do, so they actually brought Ammanute's sister to her to help keep her from losing her mind. I don't know, just a thought they could have sent her home, but when her sister came to visit, Ammanute's sister to her to help keep her from losing her mind. I don't know, just a thought they could have sent her home, but when her sister came to visit, Ammanute revealed that she was pregnant after being raped. She had a hide her pregnancy, moved to another town, and give birth to her son. While she was there, she married another man named John, John Rolf, and converted to Christianity. She was even given a Christian name. Yes. Her Christian name? Rebecca. It's like the widest name ever. Rebecca.

Sorry if your name's Rebecca. It's nothing that's you. It's just funny that it's not funny, but like, you get. And that's it. This story that's been told for decades, apparently, Ammanute was supposed to sail home and be reunited with her family, but she died under mysterious circumstances on the ship before she got there. Sadly, she was only 20 years old. Now, there are so many expert theories out there

about why people have a, such a romantic view of Ammanute's story. It's been said the story endured all these years because in the 1800s, the country really needed some good old-fashioned pro-America stories. So people did what they do best, and they blended stories from other imaginary tales, and took only their most romantic, least rapey, and least racist parts of Ammanute's story to create a family-friendly tale. You can show little Jenny before bed. Other say it's because of Jesus.

Yes, Jesus. We are bringing Jesus into this. When you hear the happy version of Ammonute's story, you can still walk away feeling pretty good. According to that scholar, Camilla, the idea behind it is that, quote, she admires the white man, admires Christianity, admires the culture,

wants to have peace with these people, is willing to live with these people rather than her own people, marrying him rather than one of her own." End quote. I'm a newte, she found Jesus, got baptized and was renamed Rebecca and had a baby. It really just completely skipped over major truths in her story

and doesn't make people feel bad about how horribly Indigenous people were treated. And when the Disney movie came out, many people, especially Native American and Indigenous communities, were very upset. I mean, we just learned that pretty much everything about the movie was BS. I mean, if we're comparing it to the real story, but here's the thing, Disney can't make a PG movie that has right murder in the truth. So I think along the way there must have been pure intentions that went into it. I don't know. I can't, I'm not making excuses for Disney. I'm not trying to, no, come from me. And in a way, as bad as this may sound, it has kept Ammanute's story alive. I mean, would we know about her story if Disney didn't make this movie? I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not trying to say, you know, I'm just bringing up the question. But I know for me growing up, Pocahont has taught me to respect the earth and love animals,

and respect what another... I hate me with this damn soundtrack that I have a very personal, emotional attachment to. It raised me. I'm sorry. So it's not all bad, but it's like a very personal, emotional attachment to. It raised me. I'm sorry. So it's not all bad, but it's like, you know, it is bad.

It is bad. Let's be honest. It is bad. I guess what I'm wondering, and what I'm always wondering is like, why did we change these stories so much? Here's something interesting. Forid, a psychologist who you might have heard of, as well as a bunch of other famous psychologists, have said that fairy tales, despite being outrageous, cruel, and sadistic,

when taking out face value are actually crucial for helping kids develop a sense of wrong and right. Do you remember being a kid? No, meaning there. Everything is really intense. Like if your mom didn't let you have that toy or that piece of candy, it was the end of the freaking world. It's so extreme. Your world view was so small. Well, according to the psychologist Bruno Bedelheim, the child often feels unjustly treated by adults and the world in general, and it seems that nothing is being done about it. That was his quote.

This is why in fairy tales, especially some of the old ones, the villains are always punished in really extreme ways. Like Hansel and Gretel, the witch is baked in her own oven. Bedelheim says quote, the more severely those bad ones are dealt with, the more secure the child feels. Essentially, even the dark sides to these stories are ultimately good, because they reassure kids that the bad guys will get what's coming to them in the end. Not in Pocahontas though. Eh, whatever. So even though getting cooked to death doesn't sound very PG, Vodalheim says that this violence already exists within the child and must be spoken to.

I mean, it makes sense. Kids do some wild stuff. I mean, when I was a kid, I would throw my barbies into the ceiling fan, just for fun. I'm like, watch them just, whew, ricochet off the walls or hit my other sisters. It's a good time. And I didn't learn that from any fairy tales. So, using Bedelheim's logic, maybe we should be telling the dark versions of these stories. The real versions, instead of the sugar-coated stories we have today.

I mean, maybe we're wrong to assume kids can't handle the truth. They actually might need it to develop a sense of justice. And look, these stories were told for a reason, originally, I think. I didn't do this episode because I wanted to say your whole childhood is a lie, because look, you could still love these movies at the end of the day, and we can still learn valuable life lessons from them. I mean go watch the cartoon Mulan and try not to be inspired as hell and think that other guy is whine. So I don't know I think we could just learn stuff. Also I think we can

learn just as much from the dark ending as we can from a happy one. So yeah put on your old- time clothes, pop some some popcorn, blow off the dust of those VHSs and still enjoy the hell out of them if you want. Just remember there's always a story to the story. Well everyone thank you for learning with me today. Remember don't be afraid to ask questions to get the whole story because why not life is short. Now I'd love to hear your guys' reaction as to today's story. So make sure to use the hashtag dark history

over on social media so I could follow along. Don't forget to join me over on my YouTube where you can watch these episodes on Thursday after the podcast airs. And while you're there, also catch my murder, mystery, and makeup. I hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices and I'll talk to you guys next week. Goodbye. Dark History is an audio boom

original. This podcast is executive produced by Bailey Sarian, Junior McNeely from Three Arts, Kevin Grush, and Claire Turner from Maiden Network. Writers, Katie Burr's, Allison Filobo's, Joey's Gluzzo, and me, Bailey Sarian. Shot and edited by Tafadzwa, Nymarune Dway, and Hannah Bacher. Research provided by Exander Elmore and the Dark History Researcher Team, special dinky to our expert, Jack Zypes and Susan E. Honeyman. And I'm your host, Bailey Freaking Saryan!

Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, bye! Why are you still here? Oh my God, you're so weird. All right. Thanks. Bye.

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