Darknet Diaries - 164: Oak Cliff Swipers

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

He started small, swiping cards, buying gift cards, and cashing out. It spiraled into a full‑blown criminal enterprise. Dozens of co‑conspirators, stacks of stolen plastic, and a lifestyle built on chaos.Meet Nathan Michael, leader of Oak Cliff Swipers.SponsorsSupport for this show comes from ThreatLocker®. ThreatLocker® is a Zero Trust Endpoint Protection Platform that strengthens your infrastructure from the ground up. With ThreatLocker® Allowlisting and Ringfencing™, you gain a more secure approach to blocking exploits of known and unknown vulnerabilities. ThreatLocker® provides Zero Trust control at the kernel level that enables you to allow everything you need and block everything else, including ransomware! Learn more at www.threatlocker.com.Support for this show comes from Pantheon. Pantheon keeps your site fast, secure, and always on. That means better SEO, more conversions, and no lost sales from downtime. But this isn’t just a business win; it’s a developer win too. Your team gets automated workflows, isolated test environments, and zero-downtime deployments. Visit Pantheon.io, and make your website your unfair advantage.Support for this show comes from Adaptive Security. Deepfake voices on a Zoom call. AI-written phishing emails that sound exactly like your CFO. Synthetic job applicants walking through the front door. Adaptive is built to stop these attacks. They run real-time simulations, exposing your teams to what these attacks look like to test and improve your defences. Learn more at adaptivesecurity.com.

Man, have I got a story for you? Where did this one even come from? Oh, yeah, it was Twitter. I got a Twitter DM. And this guy's like, hi, I'm Nathan. I'm like, okay. And he was like, yeah, I've done some stuff. And you might want to interview me.

I should note right here that this episode has a lot of swear words. And I would say it's for mature audiences. So if you have some sensitive ears around you, I recommend listening to this one with headphones or whatever you need to do. that's your warning. That's your graphic warning for this one. So typically when someone DMs me and says, hey, you know, you should interview me for your show. My first response without even knowing anything about them is, can I see your police reports? Because a lot of people who message me, they like want to be on the show for hacking something, but maybe they've

never been caught. And so I hate to glorify their actions, right? But even more so, it's probably true that their story isn't over yet and it's just the beginning and I should probably check in with them like in a few years to see how things are going. But I also have CEOs message me and say, hey, I'd like to come on the show and tell you about my product and how great everything is and how great we can defend things and stuff. And so when I just immediately start by asking for a police report, that cuts right through a lot of the small talk and gets right to the heart of what I'm looking for. I want to know about the worst day of your life, the, the things. thing that happened that was just catastrophic to you.

And you probably don't even want to talk about that. But with this guy, Nathan, I asked him for a police report. He just starts sending me link after link and news reports and files and videos and photos and, yeah, indictments and affidavits and all that stuff. And it was piling up. This story just kept growing. I couldn't even keep up. And I was like, okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's definitely talk.

Whatever this one is, it looks like it goes deep. So I'm like, hey, we should probably switch to signal, which is, a more private messaging app, and he gives me his signal number, and I message him there, and we start talking. But then I find out, I'm actually talking to his brother, a different guy. I'm like, what the fuck?

Hey, man, I thought I was talking to you on signal, but it ended up being your brother, and he's like, yeah, I gave you both me and my brother's signals. You could talk to both of us, and I'm like, okay, which one is yours? So he tells me which one is his, and I'm like, okay, let's do a call. And he's like, great, give me a date in time, and I'll be there.

and I'm like, all right, well, how about this weekend? He's like, hell yeah, Saturday, I'm free all day. I'm like, great, let's do it. Saturday comes, I wake up and I check the signal, and I got a message from him in all caps, and it's like, I have to work until midnight, but it's not that hard so I can multitask and I can talk to you at the same time. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, don't call me while you're at work. Finish your job and then we'll talk.

How about tomorrow, Sunday, 10 a.m. He's like, yeah, that sounds great. I got nothing going on all day. Sunday. So when Sunday, 10 a.m. comes around, he messages me saying, man, my baby mama is tripping, so I have to drive my daughter somewhere. I'm going to be two hours late for the call. I'm like, oh, okay, no problem. It's Sunday. See you in two hours. So two hours go by. And I'm like, all right, you ready? And he's like, uh, my phone is about to die. And I'm not near a computer. So, uh, let me charge it on a power bank for 30 minutes. I'm like, okay, fine. And I think at this

time he like went to his mom's house or something and she's like 70 years old and i think she was going to take her to the store or something but then he texts me a photo of her and she's all dressed up ready to go out jewelry on person hand but she's passed out on a couch and he tells me she drank too much and passed out and then even tells me like it's not even her house uh someone's asking me to take my mom somewhere so now i've got to drive my passed out mom somewhere and then he starts filling my texts with wild chats. I don't even know some of the shit he was saying to me on Signal. It's like he was going to show me a video of him cussing out some cops. And then he told me his brother is on the run due to some impending felonies. And I'm like, is that the same brother I talk to? He's like, yeah, man. And he tells

me his uncle killed himself and how he chose his kids instead of his uncle's life. And I can't even follow what he's saying. But then he goes swimming and he sends me a photo of him swimming in a pool with his daughter. And needless to say, we did not get a chance to do a call that weekend, even though I was sitting on the line for like six hours waiting for him to show up. So we tried to reschedule,

but man, we had a lot of conflicts. All I'm trying to say is that this guy, Nathan, is one wiggly guy and is hard to get on the phone. But eventually, we got on the phone together. You made it. Yeah. So, what are you doing right now? I'm sitting right here with a bong in front of me, in front of the five computer screens.

What is that? Why five? I mean, because my brain's going so fast. Oh, yeah. You only have two eyes, though. No, but they're going everywhere. You see them all at the same time, kind of, you know what I mean? What's going on in your brain? Why is it going so fast? Explain to me your brain here.

It's like fireworks constantly exploding in my brain. Yeah, so give me an example. Are you like, oh, I got to check an email. I got to check Twitter. Like, what's going on? Yeah, like a thousand. No, babe, I'm not talking to you. My daughter.

No, honey, I'm doing an interview. She said, oh, okay, not. Yeah. Yeah, so. So I prepare for the worst and then hope for the best. That makes sense? Yeah. That way you're never surprised.

Yeah, and you've gone through some pretty bad stuff. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got different levels of trauma. Right, there are levels to it, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Like, they need to scale for that. Maybe all this new Aeon, stupid computer shit, they'll come up with some good shit. We're going to be cyborgs by like 20, 30.

we're going to be getting two years younger every year. Yeah, yeah, I hope so. I don't want to get older. They want to live forever. You know what I mean? Yeah, I want that. I don't know if I want to live forever. All right, let's start with what's your first name?

Nathan. Okay. I got in my notes that Nathan is the ringleader of this whole enterprise. Well, you know, I mean, if they were really got the people that should have got or whoever, then it's probably my mother-in-law that would have been the ringleader. It gets worse already. We haven't even started it already gets worse.

These are true stories from the dark side of the Internet. I'm Jack Reesider. This is Darknet. Diaries. This episode is sponsored by Threat Locker. Ransomware, supply chain attacks, and zero-day exploits can strike without warning, leaving your business's sensitive data and digital assets vulnerable. But imagine a world where your cybersecurity strategy could perform.

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That's Adaptivesecurity.com. Nathan grew up in Oak Cliff, an area near Dallas, Texas. They put me on Riddlein when I was six years old, bro. Ritalin, wow. First day of kindergarten. I tried to stab a kid at school. Because your head was fireworks. Wait, did you say you tried to stab a kid at school?

First day at kindergarten Oh man, you were that kind of kid Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It made you more for real. Yeah. And then, of course, the drug didn't help. When you're self-medicating, you're thinking it's helping and it ain't helping.

By the time he was 14, him and his brother were really into video games, Diablo 2 and World Warcraft were his favorites. And at the time, there was an underground market where you could buy and sell in-game items for real money. So they'd play these games and try to sell things within the game. Well, I was like 14, and I sell them to Diablo two items. I kept getting scammed on PayPal with chargebacks.

So I just joined that side because they seemed to me making more money because I was losing more. And there's his origin story. He got scammed. And the scammer didn't get in any trouble at all. He got away clean with Nathan's money. He was like, all right, all right. see how this world is, either you're getting scammed or you're the scammer.

Might as well be the scammer. Like, I knew where I'm wrong from when I was a kid. I told this past. My parents didn't raise me like this. My parents raised me to do right. But when I got tired of getting scammed, I just chose the path to the dark side. But his origin story isn't as simple as that. If you know Oak Cliff, you may also know that that's a rough area of town to grow up in.

So I was raised middle class, but I lived in the hood. Like, my parents made it about $100,000 a year. Okay. You know, we had the nicest house in the neighborhood and shit like that. But I was raised in the streets, though. Yeah, so tell me what was shitty about your neighborhood. You know, police chasing people around the neighborhood. That people go at 3 o'clock in the morning.

You're looking at the window, and there's three helicopters in the sky looking for somebody, and the spotlight signing on your house. Shit like that gunshots, you know, seeing people get shot. I mean, I picked up all my bad habits at school. I mean, that's where everybody learns all the bad shit, right? Is that school? And then I got on the internet. And then I started picking up all the bad shit.

Once I started getting into wares and programming and AOL back in 94, 95, 96, 97, 98. Well, I think there's some sort of reflection here of like, it's like, hey, look, if I'm going to be nice, people are still going to rob me and beat me up and all this sort of thing. So I got to toughen up. I got to be a jerk to the world because the world is a jerk to me. That's why I turned into a monster. I mean, like, seriously, like, I just did 13 years in prison. And I didn't even know I could fight that good. I mean, I got into a lot of fights growing up where I grew up at,

but I didn't know it was a beast. People learn a lot about themselves in prison, don't they? Yeah, you do. I mean, I'm still learning things about it. I just realized what a couple of triggers I had that were pissing me off and how easy they were to change, so I didn't get mad no more. Yeah, yeah.

It's like self-discovery. Like, I'm just now getting self-discovery because I've been clouded by drugs my whole life. So who were you living with at 14? I was living with my mom and dad in Oak Cliff, Dallas. Your brother living together as well? Yes, yeah, me and my little brother. All right.

I just dropped out of school. Dropped out. Let me guess. you were, I want to say dirtbag, but you probably don't call yourself a dirtbag. I'm trying to guess what kind of person you are, but I imagine just you got into drugs and just screwed around and like, forget this, I'm done with this,

and you didn't shower and you just played video games. I don't know what, I was out pimping hose. What's he? Yeah, when I was sleeping, I was chasing pussy. Yeah. It's crazy. So I dropped out, and my mom bought me a computer from the IT guy at work. It was a 486 pinium, and I want to say it was a 14-4 bod-modum.

And I've been stuck on a computer ever since. And this whole time Nathan and his little brother were watching how people were making money in their area. And living in the hood, you could probably guess what kind of stuff that they were seeing. a lot of hustlers and they were set on trying to find ways to make money themselves but they were also super in computers so that's where they focused on trying to make money okay so like my whole life me and my little brother we always made money on the internet uh through like video games through uh selling currency and stuff like that for how do you do that for like selling in in game currencies for different video games like we used to have a couple of diablo two dupes

We sold Diablo two items. Then we sold wild gold. And we had a virus, a brute kid virus, that stole all accounts for every gaming platform that they had. How are you getting the gold to sell? Oh, we're buying it from where we stole in PayPal's and shit. Ooh. So we got to step back a second out. All that's a hold of the story.

So you got some stolen. It's just 94, you know. I was doing it back in the BBS days. Holy cow. So he'd buy access to someone else's PayPal account, buy some in-game gold with that, and then he'd have the gold in his video game account, and then he'd sell that gold to some other player for real cash, which he could put in his pocket. In this way, he was using World of Warcraft's gold as sort of a money laundering mechanism.

And this led him to chat rooms where people were selling or trading credit card dumps. This is where they get their hands on some full credit card details so that they could buy whatever they want with it. And they just weren't hitting, bro. Like, you know, it'd be like hit or miss, like, you know, because they have all the algorithms and shit running. So it would be hit or miss. And then when you get a good one, it'd be a banger, you know? So then we were sat down again and we're like, well, there's got to be a better way because these just ain't working. See, I've got to hand it to these two boys.

They were incredibly persistent and diligent at finding ways to make money. Sometimes it was legal. Sometimes it wasn't. They would study a lot, learn how to do stuff, try it, fail, and then pivot and try something new. They were young teenagers, though. So a lot of the stuff they were doing was really dumb and not working. But they knew there was loads of money to be made online somewhere, scaring, stealing. It was just a matter of trying lots of stuff before finding where the good stuff was.

One idea was the one that his mother-in-law came up with. He was married in, I don't know, 2008-ish, and his wife worked at Walmart, and his mother-in-law gave him an idea. When someone goes to use a credit card to buy stuff at Walmart, the cashier tries to scan the card in the little machine, and if it works, okay, great, the card is charged, and the person goes on their way. But sometimes the magnetic stripe gets screwed up. The card is broken or something like that, and it doesn't swipe right. So if the cashier can't swipe the card, then they look at the numbers on the card and punch those numbers into the cash register manually and charge the card that way. Well, his mother-in-law was like, it's what you guys should do, Nathan, you should bring a totally broken card when my daughter is on the register and put on the card a bunch of credit card numbers for her to try, and she'll just keep punching in random credit card numbers until you guys find one that actually works. My ex-wife was a manager at Walmart, so when I tell them that my cart,

I demagnetized a strip on a card so that it would say they got to punch it in. They can manually enter the number then if it doesn't swipe. Then she come over there and put in her little manager key, and I give her a blank card, like a blank PVC card with just a mag strip on the back of it with a posted note on the front of it with like eight card numbers, eight CZVVEs, and eight expiration dates. And we just sit there and run that bitch and get whatever we get off of them. Can you guess what he was trying to buy with this?

stacks and stacks of gift cards. If a random card would work, then he'd buy as many gift cards as he could on that bogus, made-up, stolen credit card number. I got $30,000 worth of gift cards in one day from our Walmart. You didn't actually spend any of the gift cards, right? Oh, no, we spent them all.

Why? Where'd you spend $30,000 in gift cards on? Well, you know, it's half price when you're selling it anyways. And when you're selling quantities like that, you got to go down about 40% anyways. Okay, so you were reselling them and then other people were spending it. Yeah. But I had sold one to my mom. So she could, you do bill pay at Walmart.

So I thought one to my mom. And then they jam my mom up too. My mom was retired and said she got her job at Walmart when she retired. So what did your mom think of you giving her a stolen gift card? I imagine you've been in trouble like a thousand times by this point. but I should have been asking this. Like, what do your parents think of you? I just do, and I want to...

We're too aggravated assault with deadly weapons. Yeah, Kinsengarde, you were stabbing someone, and then aggravated assaults. I imagine it's not news for your mom to hear that you're doing crazy shit. Right. Yeah, okay, so I don't even know what... You can be fireworks. They're fireworks, bro, fireworks.

At some point, the people at Walmart caught them, and they put them in a room and interrogated them and told them, don't ever come back here again. But nothing ever came of that. So I can talk about this now because statute of limitations ran out and except my dick. There ain't know except my dick, so. Okay.

Yeah. Fuck the pad. Yeah, don't say anything that's going to get you in trouble here. Yeah, I make sure the statute of limitations just ran out. Yeah, and I should say that, My journalistic ethics or policy here is that anything you tell me in the past, I'm not going to tell anyone except for whatever goes out publicly, right? But if you tell me that you might, like, harm someone in the future or commit some crime in the future, then that puts me in a moral pickle. Or I'm just like, man, I could have, I could have prevented, like, a moral obligation to do us right.

Yeah, so don't tell, don't get me involved in any of this shit. I'm going to go kill some pedos. You're not going to tell me. Don't tell me what you're going to do in the future. That's all I'm saying. If I was going to, you were petapiles, you wouldn't tell them. It's not morally right to go tell up the medical group of some pedophiles. Well, have you heard, like, if you tell someone your plan, they're part of the conspiracy at that point just because you tell them?

Do you know the feds give out one-person conspiracies? What? I have a homegirl that was locked up in the fed. She was on a one-person conspiracy. Oh, my gosh. That's the phone conversations and shit. Man, fireworks is right. All right, let's get back on track.

Okay, so that plan didn't work, and it was time for them to try something new. We started OGA's crew online gangster hackers and shit, and we had, so we had, like the original 419 scammers from Algeria and shit, we had some of them in our crew. Like, it's crazy, like the people that you meet online, bro, from all different regions of the world and just different cultures. And it's amazing how, but you get on the internet,

And, you know, we're all alike. Everybody's, everybody. You can be wherever you want to be on the Internet. We fucking messaged this one China dude. And they did, back then they did, like, fake iPhones and shit like that. And he had MSRs and skimmers and embassers and tippers and all that shit. This is equipment to steal credit cards and print credit cards. The MSR is a mag stripe reader.

writer. So if you get a blank credit card, you could program it with the MSR. They studied up on how all this works. And they thought, yeah, if we get a skimmer, we could collect our own credit cards. No need to buy dumps from others. So he was like, all right, let's buy a skimmer. But he had like a hell of a deal, bro. It was like, you got to buy 10 of them, though. And they were like $250 a piece back then. We saved up, got $2,500 and ordered them. And we got to collect a couple MSR, but we've got most of the skimmers of, like, I had gas pump ones and everything. Yeah, okay. So did you try putting those skimmers on gas pumps and stuff?

Oh, yeah, we had them on gas pumps. How did that? Okay, okay, I've never talked with anybody who's ran that. So tell me that, tell me this process. Was gas pumps your number one place you put them on, or did you put them on other things? I mean, we had, we had ones on ATM machines, too, back in the days, too. but the problem was with them is trying to get the pin recorded, right?

Like, they didn't have the 3D printers now where you could print something that looks just like it that's paper thin that you could put it right over the top of it. You know, they didn't have shit like that back then. So it cost $200 for one skimmer? And that was cheap. That was cheap.

Okay. They were usually like $600 back then. Wow. Okay. So, yeah, tell me about putting your first skimmer. That particular order was the ones that were about the size of a big lighter and they're wireless and then Bluetooth on them. Okay, so tell me about putting your first skimmer on a machine. Well, it was a gas station right around the corner from my house that I've been going to my whole life. So, I mean, I used to like clean up the parking lot and shit when I was a kid at this gas station.

So it's like they would never fuck with me about anything anyways. So I would just put it in there. and let it sit for about a week. Yeah. So you're not even nervous driving up to it. Like, okay, here we go. We're going to put this in. You're just like...

Rug water. I already got the keys for all the gas pumps. Like, I live in the hood, so it's like, you can get whatever you want to get into anything. Okay, so he leaves this skimmer on the gas pump for a few days. And in case you don't know what a skimmer is, it fits right over the credit card reader on the gas pump. So when you go to swipe your card to buy something, you go to swipe your card to buy some, gas, his skimmer will also read your card and save the data from it. It's meant to look just like a regular scanner on the gas pump so that you don't notice it.

And this is why every time I go to swipe my card anywhere, I first grab the reader and wiggle it hard to see if it comes off because then it would be a skimmer. After a few days, he comes back and pulls it off the pump. And then he has to learn how to get the data off it. Okay, so you can either unplug it and hook it up to your computer USB and it just downloads, it opens it up and it's just like a pile or you can Bluetooth them

then the later one you got Bluetooth and you just go Bluetooth to it download okay so when you grabbed it and you connected to your computer what did you find track one and track two information

and bro I had the reason they caught me with all them victims and 6,500 victims from over 100 different banks is because I was trying to crack the code girl crack the code

the algorithm I'm trying to generate dumps. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to get back out of each one of them, I'd be able to figure out the sequence, you know what I mean? Yeah, because it's just a 16-digit number plus a CVV code. If you could figure out a way to find those numbers, they already got generated for the numbers. So if you could just find how they get out, how they get the CVV code, you'd be good. Yeah, and that's what you were trying to do.

That's how you won't need the day, right now the day. So I actually tried that same thing when I was a team. need. You're like, hey, this is just a 16-digit code. Let me just type in jibberish into this form and see if I could order shit. And, of course, none of it worked. And I was like, okay, this is beyond me. Well, I just was doing it at random, trying to think, like, how do they know if this is a real

card? I'm just going to type in whatever, and they somehow knew. But I always just used mom and dad's credit card to find out. And then I knew that cards worked like that. Yeah. Okay, so. It's all the cards like that, like that. How many cards did you get from that gas pump?

Oh, probably like, 83 or something like that I don't remember correctly. Dang. That was like for three days, where days? And what'd you do with those cards? I sat on them. I didn't do nothing with them. Why? I was scared.

Yeah. They just weren't familiar enough with how all this worked. The cards they were punching in at Walmart were just random numbers that they were trying. And the dumps that they were buying, well, they knew that those were already stolen by someone else. But these cards, they were skimming themselves, that's new to them. They never stole credit cards before like this. So they just had to sit on them and let the heat cool down for a little while. We're going to take a quick ad break here, but stay with us.

Because wherever you think this story is going, I promise you, it gets way crazier than that. This episode is sponsored by Pantheon. Your website is your number one revenue channel. But when it's slow or down or stuck at a bottleneck, it's also your number one liability. Pantheon keeps your site fast, secure, and always off. That means better SEO, better conversions, and no loss of sales from downtime. But this isn't just a business win. It's a developer win, too.

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That's pantheon.io. Pantheon, where the web just works. Okay, Chicken Express. That's what this chapter is called. Chicken Express. I've never been there, but I'm looking at it on Google Maps. And there's actually a bunch of them in Texas. It's a drive-through, fast food chicken joint, and during busy times,

They have two lanes for cars to line up in. But in order to take the order from that second lane, a cashier needs to walk out to the car and take the order and then also take their money so that they can go into the building and charge the credit card or get changed for them. Nathan's brother's girlfriend, Elizabeth, got a job at Chicken Express taking orders. And what he would do was he had this little girlfriend and, like, you know, manipulation and all that bullshit.

You know how that goes. Yeah. Convincing anyone to do whatever you want. They're just like they can convince every man to do what they want them to do. So she was working at Chicken Express, and we were like, okay. They had the skimmers from before, and they were like, you've got this great big apron on. Put the skimmer in your front apron pocket.

And then when you take the person's credit card into the building to swipe it, also swipe it in the skimmer in your apron. The machine to charge the card was inside the restaurant so that she would take the card to leave and come back, which would give her ample opportunity to stick it in that pocket and swipe it through that skimmer. Because it doesn't matter which way you go on the skimmer

or anything it's going to record it. All right, I get it. They basically were just grabbing a copy of everyone's credit card that came through that Chicken Express lane. Her first day doing it, she got eight cards. Not bad.

But again, they're too scared to use them. They've just stolen eight cards. Take it easy. Don't do anything with it. His brother was the one who was grabbing the cards off of Elizabeth Skimmer and keeping it on his computer. He didn't want to share them with Nathan. Right.

Well, we were just going to save them up for a while. And what we really were planning was to start selling dumps. Okay. But I had other ideas in my head. My little brother had his ideas. I had mine. Yeah, what was your brother's ideas? Well, he didn't want to use them.

I wanted to use them. Why? Okay, this is what I don't understand. Both of you have now spent $2,500 to buy skimmers. You've both gotten dozens of cards from it, and then you're like, let's not use this for anything. Well, because we didn't know nothing about that side of it. You know what the dump side of it. We knew what track one, track two was, and we knew how to put them on cards, and we knew all that stuff. But we didn't know, like, none of the, I guess, we were trying to do upsack on it.

You know what I'm saying? But I got figured out. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. So you're just being hesitant. If we were to use these. We were hacking it.

I'm hacking it. Trying to figure out how their system work. We didn't know if we use one of these that are going to come busts down our door right there or not. We didn't know. That's right. Yeah. So we were more cautious about it. Okay.

Fair enough. But she keeps skimming them. Yeah, she kept skimming them. For months. So they just sat on them, not sure what to do, just play it cool. Until one day, Nathan decided to use one. One day, I used like two or three, like, we were stuck somewhere or something to handle gas or something. And because we had an average setup inside a vehicle to where we could make cars on our goat.

We'll get to that sooner later. Okay. But we didn't have no dump, so we couldn't get nine or we couldn't get no big, back there was Liberty Reserve. We had no Liberty Reserve to buy any, our web money. So we decided to use a couple of them. And they were bangers. I'm talking about bangers, bangers, bangers. He was storing these cards in a Google Doc,

and he took a few and got some blank credit cards, and he used his MSR advice to write the credit card details to the card. At first, he just tried to use it on a gas pump. And it worked. He got gas with this card, and then he went into a store and tried buying stuff. stuff. And he says with just a few cards, he was able to buy $3,000 worth of stuff. Like, every one of them hit, bro. Every one of them hit.

Of course they hit because their cards you stole. They're fresh. Right. Because the ones you were buying online were sold to four other people before they were sold to you, right? Yeah, I know you didn't know that. But that's why they weren't working. Yours were fresh. We probably got a scam eight times before we got one at work. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You know? But yeah. So we didn't know that they worked like that. So once we use them fresh ones, and my brother didn't want to use no more.

And I'm like, fuck him, I got to, I'm going. My wheels are spinning in my head. And once I see the taste of money, it's like, I'm not worried about pussy. I'm not worried about drugs. You ever been addicted to making money? Let's talk about being addicted to making money. Because it's an addiction.

He had some of these cards from the skimmers that he was putting around town. But it was his brother who had the most amount of cards. From all the cards, his girlfriend Elizabeth was skimming at Chicken Express. But his brother wasn't sharing those cards with Nathan. And his mind was racing with how to get those from his brother. I don't know how much is the federal paperwork you read or if he looked at anything up. But there was like 58 people that weren't in a night.

58? And I only got three of us. Well, I got four of us, but only three of us. Well, you have to tell me when there's other 55 come in to play because we've only listed three so far. They've already been involved with all that. We're already making cards. By that time, we're already making cards. We're already deep in the game by them.

This is when we get the fresh dumps, and we're using them fresh dumps that were skimmed. That's what our friend case started because of. Okay, so the other 50 people were involved before this? Not necessarily in all 50 of them. Like, my brother, these people, and I had my people. My brother had, like, four or five people, and then I had, like, 30 people. Okay, and these other people, what were their roles?

Shoppers. See, Nathan had a Fargo printer, which is a classic printer used to make IDs. Think membership cards or student IDs, employee badges. But he was using it to make credit cards. And he was making them look really good. I'd print the cards and then programming the mag strip. And my little key trick was so they don't have to ask you for ID.

Just put your fucking picture in the corner of the fucking card. So you had a guy that you took a picture of him and you would print it on the card to make it look like a, a legitimate card is it wasn't just a blank card you were printing on the card to make it look as good as possible yeah and then he was taking it in the store and like look in my picture's on the card how can you say that's not me exactly wow that's uh that's going the length of the length there like this was like in 2008 so seven and eight so like nobody was doing it like that back then so he would go around his neighborhood and hit up people he thought might want the extra cash

and have them come over and then he'd make a bunch of credit cards with their photo on it and have them go out and shop with stolen credit cards and then bring back any of the stuff you buy with it so what i'll use is i'm providing the cards i figured the cards were if they're round a dump and they're making the card so i charge a hundred dollars from the card basically right okay it's what so say they bring me back three thousand dollars worth of merchandise i can only sell it for half price so that's fifteen hundred out the gate i'm taking a hundred off for each card and i'm paying you cash the wrist how damn so people yeah okay that's a pretty good incentive for i could see why a bunch of people would want to get in on this

in texas well and and plus you know like i was in the hood so everybody's broke nobody has nice jobs and shit like that all their parents are crackheads or whores or prostitutes or pimps or the pushers the pimps are the pushers okay so all that was going around for a while with crap he's stolen credit cards a lot that didn't work but now nathan is like man i'm sitting on a bunch of a banger cards. It's time to start making some real money with these, but his brother was the one

who had the bulk of them, and he wasn't sharing. So my brother didn't want to use them, and so I hacked my brother. Fuck. I mean, I hacked him and started using them. Wait, you hacked your brother? Yeah.

Why not? You got something I want, I guess. How'd you do that? I mean, I just got on his computer and stole his file. I knew, you know, It's my little brother, you know, so obviously he's learned from me, so he's going to think kind of like I think. So it wasn't that hard to find the text document and where it was he.

And I've seen him, you know, because it's his girlfriend that is doing it, right? Yeah. So, and then, you know, I didn't go to prison the first time until I was 30. So I made a pretty good while where I got in trouble. I did good for myself. What age do you think your daughter is going to be before she goes to prison for the first time? They're not going to prison.

Okay. When I'm graduated college, the other one is in college. I'm a 16-year-old speaking to Gregor at high school with her nursing shit done this year. Do you have a better neighborhood that they're living in compared to where you grew up? Yeah. I mean, it's Dallas, bro.

You know, it's a city. So, I mean, it's like, bad shit happens everywhere. you put it as like a badge of honor like man I didn't go to prison until I was over 30 so I did pretty good most people either dead or or in prison by the time that 30 in my neighborhood I grew up in old cliff though see my kids live in Dallas with her mother yeah she's garland I mean it's a little better I mean but it's still the city you know vast life what did what did your dad do like was he a carpenter or a musician It's on fire systems and restaurants and paint booths.

Did he ever break the law? What was his, at what age did he go to prison? He went to jail when he was a kid one time for running from the police because he had a race car. He had a Dodge Challenger. Yeah. I mean, when you say the fast life, it really does resonate with me because everything's just moving and changing and things are happening. And it feels uncomfortable because it's like, I'm not ready for this. But man, everyone else is doing it.

So I better get ready for this because I got no choice. It's like you're in a tank full of sharks. So you become a shark or you get eaten. Okay, we need to get back on track. All right, with the stolen file that he got from his brother, he had a whole new chest of cards to start cracking into. And when I think about the supply chain here, it's pretty wild. Elizabeth stole these cards from people at Chicken Express,

and then she gave them to her boyfriend. Actually, I think they got married sometime in there as well. So she gave him to her husband, then Nathan steals the cards from him, and then he prints them onto cards and gives them to shoppers and swipers, and then they go out and they buy things from the stores with them, and then they sell those things back to Nathan for 30% of its value, and then Nathan tries to sell it for 50% of its value on the streets. So Nathan was a lot of people's hookups for just half-priced stuff.

But despite being complex and long, the system was working. With Nathan working with dozens of shoppers that were just going around buying stuff all the time, It was endless work for him. He was making cards all day and reselling things and buying stuff. But he was making good money, doing it all. At this point, his brother realized that Nathan stole the cards and was unhappy about it, but was joining him on some of this anyway. I mean, he had always joined.

He said I was doing too much because I was doing too much. Anyway, he didn't want to miss out on all the money that he could get from these cards that his wife stole. In order to be a good swiper, you got to believe in your heart and in your mind and your body. that this is your credit card, this is your money. If you don't, you won't do good. You'll be one of them people that pays for the shit and then they ask you for ID and you burn off. And you just burned yourself.

It's all about how you talk to people. It's all about your finesse game, really. Yeah. And who you picked to check you out. Did you teach people how to do that game? Yeah, you got to. Okay, teach me. I want to be a good swiper.

Okay. So I'm teaching me to be a swiper. We'll give you a couple, like, two or three cards. right yep I'm day to go I'm gonna tell you what to go in there and get like I'd plan people's routes out for them and everything like back then it was MapQuest right I'd plan their whole route out for them tell them what stores to go to and everything but I'd have it all walk down and everything so we'd go to the store and I would come with me first and I'd show you how I'd do it I'd never never look up at a camera never never I always wear hat so and

I'm always looking down at my phone always look so always be on your phone that was yeah one one always be on your phone because you're looking down at your phone you're you're always going to look down, right? Yeah. So you're not going to be looking out to wear a camera if you can get a clear picture of your face. That's why I get my federal documents. It says 2005 white males, 215 white males.

There was always me and my brother. Yep. But it was under 205 white males. That's all it was. I always cover up all your tattoos. We're glad. Wear a hat. You know, things that are going to, you know,

make it not so obvious of who you. you are, but without not making it so obvious that you're hiding your identity, right? Yep. I liked, I liked, when I go get gift cards, I'd like putting on some coveralls and getting them all dirty and shit. It looked like I've been working on an oil rig all day, and I'm coming here to get $2,500 gift cards for my workers because they pass a safety test. Yeah.

So then it doesn't look so obvious. Then my brother's got coveralls with me. He's with me. My card don't work. right yeah bro you're going to get on your card yet yeah yeah my money got on my pay for my shit bro and as soon as my shit gets on there i'll pay i'll pay i'll pay you back so we're he's at one register and i'm at the next register and we're working together at the same time still too yeah so we're banging and double and about like we like when i was doing that

bro i went to i went to all the way to missouri and back down and got like 30,000 I always with the gift cards. The dude sold them. They were for eBay and PayPal, and he didn't buy an vet with them up for eBay. So over time, the shoppers and swipers and his network would be bringing him tons of stuff. A lot was gift cards,

but sometimes it was TVs and laptops and video game consoles, anything that would have a high resale value. What I'd do is I'd have a storage and I'd fill it up. And there's pictures of it in my discovery packet. And I'd fill it up. And then I had a couple of Mexicans. That are cartel. They take all this shit back to Mexico, bro.

Don't buy this shit for cash. It's easier to transport that shit across the border than it is cash. You're not going to lose it getting across the border. They'll be able to drive it right across. It's crazy how much logistics went into his operation. But the more cards he would get from skimming, the more cards he could just print and then give to shoppers and they would be constantly bringing him stuff.

He had it all dialed in. Bro, at the end of it, I was making like $5,000 cash a day, profit. But of course, in the wake. of all his activity, it would mean that tons of cards were reported stolen, and purchases were traced to certain locations, and authorities started putting pieces together. Napal, Texas, bro, so basically half the United States. Look at one. This article says, this case is being investigated by the Tyler Police Department, U.S. Secret Service, the Smith County Sheriff's Office, the Henderson County Sheriff's Office,

the Athens Police Department, the Caney City Police Department, the Longview Police Department, the Mesquite Police Department, the Terrell Police Department, the Waco Police Department, the Corsican Police Department, the Waxichachi Police Department, the Van Zanz County Precinct 4 Constable, Walmart Stores, Associate, Asset Protection, and Southside Bank. Yeah, it's crazy, right? It wasn't too hard for them to all look at the cards for a common purchase point, which would indicate where they were likely stolen, and the cops saw that Chicken Express and King.

gas pumps were where these cards were getting stolen from. Eventually, this meant the cops had an arrest warrant for Nathan. And it didn't seem like they knew exactly what he was up to, but they had a strong suspicion that he was doing something wrong. And for some reason, right around this time, Nathan broke up with his wife. They got a divorce. And she was the mother of his kids. She wasn't clean from crime herself, though.

She got caught punching in those credit cards at Walmart, remember? And the police gave her a stern talking to for that one. But for whatever reason, the two of them broke up. And we're done with that relationship. I met this bad bitch, bro. So I had a bitch living in the house with me. And I met this bad bitch, bro. So I bring a bad bitch home with me

and kick my other bitch out the night before, bro, that I got rated. So I'm in there making some cards this morning. It's like 6 o'clock in the morning, bro. And the dude comes over from across the street to get some cards, making some cards. Five minutes later, bro. I hear his bang on the door and they kick in the door.

I fluck and throw the laptop on the floor and I jump up. He's in there. and I come into the living room and they fucking got a gun of my goddamn daughter's head, bro. She's like five years old, bro. And they're telling me to get down on the ground.

But I said, get that fucking gun out of my daughter's face, you fucking bitch. I'm like, I'm irate, bro. Like, I'm already freaking the fuck out. This girlfriend and dad come home and they see Nathan in handcuffs in the front yard. Then the Secret Service, they started asking me questions. I'm like, I ain't got nothing to say.

And they're like, well, they found stolen motorcycles here, drugs, everything. plenty of credit cards. They raided the neighbor's house across the street that snitched on me. They found a fucking baby white container with like a thousand cards in it. They put them all on the news.

They have pictures of them. All out on a table. Like they fucking, you know how they do. They paraded that shit around. I think this is something good. Yeah. I was just a modern day Robin Hood, bro.

That's all. No, you were not, the Robin Hood. You weren't giving, giving anything to the poor. You were the one making all the money. You were like, I want more money. I want more money. It looks like I made all the money because I had so many people working for me. But everybody else made just as much money as I did. So the cops continued to question him, but he just kept quiet the whole time. They told him, look, if you tell us the names of everyone involved, then we'll let you go. But he didn't say

anything. He didn't give up anyone's names. And I'm not sure if they even knew he was the ringleader of all this or not. They were like, well, we don't have anything to charge you with today. I was search warrant, you'll be receiving an indictment at a later date and left. And they didn't take you. They just left you. Nobody to jail. They tried to take my escalate, but they couldn't take my escalate because it wasn't in my name.

Never put nothing in my name. Thank God. Okay. So what kind of cars did you have at the time? I had a Jaguar, Lexus, and a Cadag Escalade. Yeah. And they couldn't take any of the cars? No.

My Lexus was in my best friend's name. The Esclay was in the cop's name I bought her from, and my Jaguar is in my other homeboy's name. So you were buying cars with this? What else were you doing with the money? Oh, we buy electronics. I had lots of jewelry and lots of guns. Drugs?

Oh, yeah, lots of drugs. Yeah, I always had drugs. What? Sorry to ask. When they took me out for Ritalin, what else did I have to do besides self-medicate? Yeah, they gave you drugs at the beginning. methamphetamines when I was six years old. What do they expect me to turn into?

The cops did take all the blank cards, the gift cards, writers, and stuff that looked illegal. I saw a picture of it. They laid it all out on a table for the media to see. One picture I counted over 200 gift cards just spread out all over the table. And at the time, he was still living with his parents, his mom and dad, and his kids. His little brother was living there, but his brother got a sense that Nathan was doing just too much and was going to move out. and his brother was still mad that he stole the file off his computer. He was mad as fuck. Even though his brother did some of this activity himself too,

there was just too much going on for him. It was getting too hot, and his little brother moved out just before the cops raided the place. He wasn't here, bro. He already burnt off because he said I was doing too much. I mean, ultimately, we would have got caught anyways. I just kind of put us in the H-O-E line and got us there quicker. Yeah, but they're passed of punching in credit cards at stores,

buying dumps online, and getting dozens of people to help be shoppers, They were doomed from that alone. The Chicken Express cards that they were using like this, it just sped up the process of them getting caught. So after they raided this, I had $20,000 stash that they didn't find. It was in one of the big flashlights that has the big, big square batteries in it. I had five rows of $5,000 piece, wrapped up rubberband in there, and my dad's room.

They didn't even search my parents' room at all. Okay. All right. So what did you do after that? He stopped cold turkey. You became a good boy. No. I smash the gas on my bitch ass

I'm just smashed the gas The cops are already after me They already know what I'm doing The fuck am I going to stop for Marty in trouble Marty card Oh my God I'm like what

I'm a quarriers for one So it's like I'm all or nothing I'm going to give it 110% I'm going to give it no percent Same thing I do with my relationships But I'll go back to the childhood Still like you were talking about earlier you know It's that you apply what you learned to everything.

So what he knows is how to make money and be invisible. So he grabs the $20,000 and goes on the run. I like three days later, I went to Dallas. And I got me, I got me, I was standing hotels at first, and then I got me a spot, a little house that I was able to rent somebody else's name, get to electricity and shit going on, somebody else's name, all that. And, uh, started making it. some credit cards there.

My whole boy, my right-hand man that lived with me. He sold drugs. I sell credit cards. So I never had to buy drugs anymore. And he never had to buy credit cards no more. Worked out. Now, during that time, the police were also looking for his brother. But he was hiding out, too.

But one day, his brother made a mistake with one of the stolen credit cards. Okay, I have it in my notes that he was at an arcade messing around with quarters. They got like $200 worth of quarters at the fucking automated quarter machine with a credit card with a stolen credit card yeah and why was this suspicious at all because people don't buy $200 worth of quarters i mean uh not and put them in their pocket leave how would you put $200 worth of quarters in your pocket it is i guess you're right i would have been playing video games so he just goes into the arcade grabs $200 worth of quarters and it's like i'm good to see and the mall worker calls the cops

yeah and says this guy's weird he just bought $200 worth of coins and he's leaving quarters he went shopping too he had a whole bunch

to sit under the car outside the mall had a whole bunch of shit under the car that he had been shopping in there all day too just follow the trail of quarters

to the mall you'll catch them I think like shit that's easy $200 he doesn't like the mac that you get out for card so this is how

his brother got caught and since they caught him in the act they took him right to jail So they ended up catching my brother probably around November and they got arrested in Dallas

and I had already knew it bondsman so I called the bondsman and had the bondsman go get him right out and he got out. His brother was out of jail but not for long. Stealing from the mall is one thing but running a huge stolen credit card ring

is another. So the feds came and arrested his brother and took him to jail a week later. I couldn't bought him out the feds. When the feds got him and the U.S. Marshal detainer was on him and there ain't no bonding out of the feds, bro.

I had $100,000 cash I tried to get him out. And they told me I was fucked. So I ended up paying $20,000 for a federal lawyer. That was the biggest waste of money ever. So your brother is stuck in jail? I can't get him out. You can't get him out.

I mean, you know, this is my best friend, you know. My first best friend was my sister. She died when I was 13. She was killed in a drunk driving accident. Oh, no. So then my little brother became my best friend, you know. So was a drunk driver hit her? Yeah.

Were you in the car, too? No, it was her, her boyfriend. And then two other people in the other vehicle. All four of them were intoxicated. Your sister was intoxicated, too? Yeah, she was underage and she, like I got a, we won a $5 million lawsuit against Dennis Rodman, but it was under LLC, so I'll never get another money.

Wait, how does Dennis Rodman come into this story? Well, it's not into the story. It's into the story of my sister dying. He on the bar that they were at drinking underage. And we, they're an investigator that went in there. We got video of it and shit, and we won in court. Okay. So was it the car that your sister was in that was the drunk driver or was it the other car?

Both of them. Okay. But everybody was drunk in both cars. Holy cow. What a awful situation that is to lose your sister at 13. Yeah, that was probably my first, like, real traumatic event in my life. And that's why I started using drugs. It's when I blame God for everything.

That's why, you know what I mean? Like, that's when my life really took turn for the worst. Really? They hit you hard Yeah I mean You know Getting a knock on the door

At 4 o'clock in the morning Two police officers being there And you're 13 years old And you're answering the door It's your mom and dad Because somebody's beating on the door At the 4 o'clock in the morning And then you're hearing this

So it's like Uh yeah Our parents didn't know how to deal with losing a kid So how could they help us cope With losing a sister Yeah, right? They're probably losing their mind. They don't, they're griefing.

They can't help you, right? I didn't think that. What are they going to do to tell them? What are they going to do to help us? So you had to find your own way, which is drugs. Right. That was my escape. God damn.

My escape from reality. And then once I figured out how to escape from reality, I mean, you escape from reality forever. And then this time, I've been told, like, five months. You've been sober right now for the last five months? Yeah. Oh, good for you.

Wow. That's hard. You know, it took me losing probably the love of my life to figure that out. Wait, hold on. We started this call. You told me you out a bong in front of you. I do. I didn't say I smoked weed.

Beki, you turned the bed. What are you smoking? nothing I don't know what to believe with you I don't believe I just took a bomb grip it's sober for five months yeah okay so

so your brother's in jail you're you're stressed out on this you're hiding out from the cops are Are you missing from the cops? Or are they asking you to come to court? And you're like, nope, I'm not coming?

I'm wanting. So my brother's baby. Mama, Elizabeth, she's staying with my cousin in another house in Oak Cliff. And I get a call one day that she was talking to the Secret Service. They're trying to get herself in. And I find out about it.

I go over there and tell her to get in the car. She gets in the car. I tell her to give me her phone. She gets me her phone and take the battery out, send her car out through the window, she'd out the window, throw it out the window, and tell her every kept talking the cops again. I'm a killer.

Damn. They kidnapped her. What, you kidnapped Elizabeth? And then she started getting high on methamphetamines, and now she's in jail still for methamphetamines. I turned her out. Fucked her lapar. What?

He didn't even got high before. I got her high for the first time. She's been doing methadent. Oh, my God. What? My brother got custody of both his sons because he could tell you all that stuff. But yeah, he ended up getting custody of both of his sons because the baby mom was a piece of shit.

My baby mom was a piece of shit too. She got back with a guy that molested my kids. Yeah, but you're the one who turned her into a piece of shit by getting her hooked on meth. It's not my fault. She stayed addicted. What is this? You need your own TV show.

Someone needs to be following you with a camera. You would pull my life, bro. We'd be, I'll be rich. We all be sure. Like, I tell you all this stuff. I can't make this shit up. No, like Jersey Shore would have nothing on you. You would just be like...

And this is real life reality. All that shit that they do is scripted shit. Yeah. So the indictment comes out. It lists Nathan, his brother, and his brother's wife, Elizabeth, saying they were stealing credit cards from Chicken Express and then using those at Walmart. Nathan was still wanted, though, missing, hiding out,

and still making stolen credit cards. I had a Budengara, a witch lady come from Mexico. A what? A Budengara? What the hell? Yep. It's like a witch person, a witch doctor or something. You know, that's, they worship the Santa Marte.

Why would you get this? So they can compress my house. How much did you pay them? I like 200 bucks. So what happened was, so I ended up burning that candle in my house, one of the Mexican candles, and it stopped burning. So my home way of still staying over there, because the cops that came to the house looking for somebody, but it wasn't for me or for him or anything. It was something that's wrong house, basically. But I panicked.

And so I wasn't never going back there. And somebody called me and told me the candle was going out. I go to get the candle. The candle's going out. Never got the candle lit again. So she could channel her spell and keep her spell of protection over me. Well, it didn't work. I was on the fucking channel 4-5-8-11 news.

Muck wanted, top 10 D.FW. Most wanted by the U.S. Marshals. And they were looking for me in my Escalade. So I dropped my escalate off, got my lectures. And we went and got our OCS for Oakcliffe Swipers. We had a little swiping clip called Oaklis Swipers. And we went and got our OCS tattoos, me and my cousin and one of my shoppers. Tattoos.

You're on the run from the feds and you're like, guys, we need to stop again tattoos on the way out of town. Oak Hill Swipers. Oak Cliff. Oak Cliff. Or they got a song about me. It's called Oak Cliff. That's My Hood.

Oh, Cliff, yeah, that's my hood. Put it in his face. Get that shit understood. Yeah, this ain't what you want. Boy, tell you. That needs to be the opening intro music. O'Clip, that's my hood. My main girlfriend shows up at the tattoo parlor, so I got both my bitches there.

Oh, they didn't know about each other. Yeah, they knew about it. The side bitch knew, but they didn't. The main bitch didn't like the side bitch. side bitch didn't give a plug. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's how it usually works. My cousin's telling me I got you because. So I make both of my bitches sit in the backseat. My cousin rides in front seat with me. We go to my cousin's house. My side bitch goes in the house with me because my cousin's and my cousin's and my cousin's don't get along. They hate each other. So she's like, you didn't come in my house.

So this bitch is, I started my Lexus. I'm in the bed with my side bitch, my cousin's house. I wake up the next morning making some cars Roll the Blunt Go start looking for my cousin Rolls Blunt She goes, Nathan, the cops are you here My cousin, she had the doors opening

in the front of the house and was cleaning and shit She's seen the Secret Service car pull up There was just Bigger service agents Originally with one of Dallas patrol car When they came to arrest me

And I don't know how they got The anonymous tip there I'm pretty sure It was my main bitch's fucking mama I'm about 99.9% sure and it's all good. You know, I was going to get caught immediately, so I'm glad it went down like it did,

and I didn't get hurt because I ran everybody out of the house. My cousin's Mexican, she got like three kids at the house with her. Both my bitches are out of the house. I ran everybody out of the house, put on my body armor, got my air 15, loaded that bitch. I had 10-30-round clips, but I was ready for war. I didn't know what was happening. I thought I was going to prison for the rest of my life broke.

Wow. So I was ready to die. So you cleared everyone. else out of the house, and then you loaded up body armor and armed yourself with all the weapons you had. Yeah. And you flashed it out the windows and the door is like, hey, stay the, stay out. In-screen front porch, bro, on the underneath the carport.

They had the screen on it, though, that you could see out, but people can see it in, right? Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. So I was sitting there watching them for six hours, bro, while they were surrounding my house, the tank pulling up in the front yard, and putting the robot on the porch, throwing a phone in through the door, shooting flashbangs, and tear gas, I'm sitting there watching these fucking idiots

and watching these flashbang and me, and I'm sitting out here front porch watching these fucking idiots the whole time, bro. Oh, dang. Yeah, they didn't know you were on the porch. I picked them off, right. I mean, I want to get all of them. But I could have picked them off, bro, if I really wanted to. They wouldn't even know. I mean, after the first couple of shots,

I mean, I would have got a couple of them before they got me. Oh, yeah. They would have tried to go like that. Not at that point in my life. I mean, this sounds really intense. Were you scared? Were you tensed up? Were you high? I was hyperventilating. I was a cold sweats. Like, it was, it was, it was, uh, it was, uh, it was an adrenaline rush and, uh, sadness and, uh, it's over with, all at the same time, you know? So I, I said, fuck this. I took some hydrocodone, took some Xanax, went in the house.

As soon as I went in the house, my eyes started burning like a motherfucker. crying like a baby. So I put on some big ass glasses, racked the towel around my head, got it wet, and went to the door, and then I find this phone that they threw in through the window, and I pick up the phone, the hostage negotiator gets on the phone on the time.

You bitch, I don't want to talk to you. Put secret service agent Reeves on the phone. He said, yes, sir, you got a phone. So Ms. Reeves, these Dallas police are going to kill me, bro. They're treating, look this. They got these tank out here in the front yard. They got the goddamn swat. They got the command center band down at the end of the block.

there was an actual tank in your yard bro they had dead snipers on the hospital across the street god damn okay what how did they know that you were like armed and dangerous in there you must have showed them like hey i've got these weapons like through the window or something and the state i fucked back like three rounds into the ceiling

and uh i came to the door you shot the ceiling yeah and they and they at the door they saw so they came all the way to the door and they saw you shoot in the ceiling. They were in the yard. They were in the yard within the tank. They had like turn on the tank that they shoot tear gas. They're like, this is crazier than Waco. Secret service. Like they're very professional, bro, and they're very chill and laid back, bro. Like, I said, I got to see, since this is a, since we don't know if there's anybody else in the house,

you have to come out and surrender to them. But as soon as you surrender to them, I'm going to get you. I said, that's your word. And he said, what are you, what are your demands? So I want to talk to my kid and I want to smoke some cigarettes. And I just want to call my parents and my kids, tell him I love and tell everybody I love. He's like, well, you come out peacefully. You got my word, you got that. I was like, that's your word as a man. He's like, that's my word as a man.

And so I've surrendered peacefully after eight hours. Holy mackerel. Okay. And I didn't like that. I was for them, they were fixed to come in. It was in like the next five minutes. They were, they were, they were fixing to come in and get me. So I probably would have been dead.

Yeah. Yeah. Did they honor their word? The Secret Service didn't even get put in handcuffs by Dallas police. And when he arrested me, he put his diphties on me and put him in the front. And he let me sit in the front seat with him when we left. When we drove off, I was in the front seat with him. And the other agent was behind me.

And he gave me his cell phone. He said, call your kids. We got down to the grass in the old where Kennedy got shot. He said, you're not going to try to run, are you? I said, nope. He said, if you do, I'm going to shoot you in the back. Let me sit down on the rationale and smoke three cigarettes before he took me to Lou Starritt.

Justice Center is the main Dallas County Jail, and as you could guess, he was facing tons and tons of charges at this point. They were slapping him with charges of things he didn't even do. Like, any time that there was a stolen credit card incident in Texas, he was getting charged with that. Exactly, one of the computers that had been purchased from us, that ended up finding somewhere or something, and they found out

they had some child pornography on it but my lawyer had a special investigator and somebody had bought the laptop before us and taken it back to Walmart and then my shopper purchased it. Okay, so at this point, your brother's in jail, his ex-wife, Elizabeth's in jail, you're in jail.

Yep. And Corey David's Nis is in jail too. Corey Davis, let me see what I have on him. So this guy was an accomplice. He was the one that was getting critical, that morning when we got raided originally. Yeah. They'd across the street for me.

Dude couldn't feed his kids. Him and his wife lost their job and couldn't feed their kids, pay their bills or nothing, so I'll put them on, and then they tell on me. Oh, he was your neighbor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was cashing for you, and when the police got to him, he got scared to, he just got scared for his own sake, man. And he was like, I don't want to go to prison forever.

What do you want to know? That's the thing about snitching is everyone says don't snitch, no snits. But then when it's like, well, you got 40 years in prison or you can snitch, and then suddenly the reality hits people. Boy, I got to look for that. I call him my little brother because me and my actual wife raised him. It's her little brother. And he just got five years for murder.

But what? I mean, the dude that was with him did the murder. And my little brother didn't know he was doing the murder. I see. We got out and blew somebody's head off on a motorcycle. My little brother only got five years. But he got like 15 years because he had a whole bunch of other shit, too. But they know he wasn't part of the murder, so definitely getting five years short.

Have you ever diagnosed yourself for any mental situations, like ADHD or anything? Well, not diagnosed yourself, but have you been, like, are you officially anything at ADHD? Yeah, I have ADHD, dyslexia, intermittent explosive anger disorder. TTSD, extreme TTSD, extreme anxiety. Did I say bipolar 1 and 2 yet? No. Yeah, I got them. That's what I've been diagnosed with by the doctor.

What's some of your favorite music, musicians? Tupac. Yeah. I listen to rock music, like death metal, like heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, death metal. You know, like, you know, Brahmstein, a slip knot. Yeah. Okay. I was going to say slip-knock.

Break shit, music. ICP? Yeah, yeah. I went to ICP concert. It was fucking hilarious, bro. Oh, my gosh. I bet they are. A bunch of clowns.

Yeah. Okay. Where were we? Oh, yeah. December 2010, Nathan, his brother, and his brother's wife, Elizabeth, were all in jail.

And Nathan's brother and Elizabeth had kids. His son with Elizabeth is with his grandparents and then another son with his other wife is with his first baby mama and my three kids were with my baby mama but when I got arrested my kids were with my parents

when my wife left me she left me with no car no nothing and three kids like she paints this whole story she guys everybody pictured this whole story that I'm the evil person you abandon me and the kids yeah

I feel like I abandoned them eventually anyways because I went to prison for so long so I feel like I've been in them too though and I did you know but at the time when you have no means of making money I thought when I was when I was 17 I got my first computer job working for Southwestern Bell doing tech support for Pacific

Be on the Water Bell and Pacific and Southwestern Bell I like I used to work for Microsoft bro I used to work for Vario web hosting and I worked in Network Operations Center like I could have had a good promising computer career but I fucked it all off because of drugs I was doing cocaine. I was doing cocaine, lines of cocaine when I worked for Earthlink, isn't it?

Earthlink? Yeah, I remember Earthlink, dial up. Yeah. I was doing lines of cocaine on the desk. With the trainer. With the trainer. The train from Seattle would come down, come get me, we'd go to Oak Cliff, give him some cocaine. He smoked cocaine on top of a weed and his tobacco pipe, and I do lines of cocaine on the table. He'd be like, I'm going to go get Michael, we're going to go work on some training material.

We do all this on the clock. Crazy motherfucker Okay I don't think I'm at the Earthlink bro They tried the fuckest bro I was

I crashed their stock bro This is like What? Yeah I cracked their stock bro So like It was the Earthling

Mindspring merger Right Yeah Sprint took over basically Because they own 80% of Earthlink That's way back When they had that

URL shortener called CJB. com net Remember CJB? No. Hey, it was a URL shortener. So I made ELNsux.CJB.net. I worked in Network Operations Center, bro.

So I had access to the server room and everything, you know. And so I got into the president of the company's emails, him and the vice president and people on the board and shit. They were talking about how they fuck over their customers. How fucking, because their service was shit, bro. It was trash. And it was just a, anyway, so I posted these documents, all these confidential information about how they got hacked one time.

and they didn't report it to nobody. But that back then you didn't have to. So I released all this. I put it on CJB.net website. This is a little HTML thing with some snippets from the emails. And I started spamming fucking MSN and Yahoo stock message boards

and their fucking stockwork from like $32 down to $18. Damn. Because like this company comes in here and now got all these new employees and now they're trying to renege on what they said they were going to do. You know what I'm saying?

I'm always for the little. man. You know what I'm saying? I always stand up for the little man. But I never went back. Yeah. I bet you didn't. Yeah. Man, we get off track fast in this one. All right. Yeah, still, Nathan, his brother and Elizabeth are all in jail. Elizabeth pleads guilty and his brother pleads guilty. And the two boys actually said that they coerced Elizabeth into doing it.

So this meant she got less time in jail. And so she ended up serving two years in jail. His little brother got four years in prison. and the last one to face trial was Nathan. I played guilty. His spirit, you could be access to my fraud. And I went to prison. He was sentenced to four years and three months in prison, three months more than his brother.

Yeah, I ended up doing all of it. My brother ended up doing all of it, too. And, you know, I mean, I went to prison, bro, lived like a rock star the whole time I was in prison. I stayed high on K2 and drinking moonshine. The hell is K2? That's a vitamin. No, K2 is like synthetic marijuana. Oh, my God.

Okay. So you do your four years, three months in prison, you get out, and then you're a good boy after that, and you've reformed. You did self-rehibit rehabilitation in prison. Yeah, right. Got out. I got out of the halfway house. I got out of the halfway house. I got out.

For drugs. Drive while intoxicated, getting caught in a stolen car. But it wasn't a stolen car as a rental. It just didn't get taken back when it's folks do. But being out of district, not wrong. reporting it to my probation officer, and she told me, Mr. Michael, do you want to go to jail? You want to go back to jail? Or do you want to go to, then they put me on the code shit, the color code shit, and I had to go to an intensive drug treatment program, go one-on-one

counseling for six months straight. Now, I think a lot of people might have gotten out early because of good behavior. It's surprising to me to that you had to serve the entire sentence. There was no good behavior for you. I discharged my federal sentence and my state sentence. I stayed in medium and close custody. I'm in luck, go ahead. Yeah. I got, but I didn't listen to the police in the world. Why am I going to go to prison and start listening to them?

To get out early and see your kids. Yeah, but I want thinking about that. The way they treat people in prison, bro, is inhumane. So if they treat them animal, why don't you're going to act like animal? Okay. So they leave me in a cage 23 hours a day and then let me out an hour a day. What am I going to do when I get out for that hour? It's just like blocking a dog in a cage for 23 hours a day and letting him out.

All right. You get out of prison, and how does it go wrong after that? Well, I got a girl pregnant, and I had like, I was at the hotel, and I was sitting there one day. I was like, man, I had three different businesses in three different rooms, and I know what to do. In one hotel? Yeah. Man, you're, how, what's the secret to your Riz? How are you attracting so many of these girls?

What's crazy is, bro? Like, my brother always asked me the same thing. It's like, how do you get so much pussy? How do you get some of my? I don't know, bro. I don't go chasing pussy, bro. It's just like, I always tell people I pose and get shows. I just chill and be still, bro.

It comes to me. It's crazy. Pose and get shows. I'm going to try that. Let's see if it works. I mean, it works. Like, me and my girlfriend broke up four months ago, and she's been dragging me for four months.

And I finally cut her completely off about a week ago. and I got two chicks already. Like, 45 and I'm still upgrading. Okay. So you're in a hotel with three different ladies in the hotel, and you're looking at it. Like, man, how am I supposed to juggle this? Keep going.

Yeah. So it's like, you know, and then the guy that was down here at the lake with us, he was originally involved in our fucking Fed case, but he didn't tell he was one of the ones that didn't tell, stayed stiff, and starts fucking with him again. And then me and him are out in fucking Fort Worth. We're going to Chili's because they had them kiosk where you just swipe right at the fucking table.

Yeah, so despite serving four years in prison, Nathan went right back to carding, getting stolen credit cards, printing them on blank cards, and using them to buy stuff in the stores himself. He was doing all his old tricks, wearing disguises and buying gift cards from Home Depot and Walmart. Oh, yeah, and using them to get free food at Chili. Since the ordering system is right there at the table, you could just keep trying different cards until you find one that actually works

and pays for your food without the server getting suspicious, right? So he's riding in the car with this guy and they're on their way to get food at Chili's. Like we're turning on to get onto the highway and he runs a red light with three cops parked at the red light right across the street. The dude ends up being a snitch, right?

My brother's got a couple of penning felonies because of him right now, And my brother kept fucking with a dude, and I told my brother the whole time, they just snitch, he snits. Because everybody, you know, people talk. You said he was a stiff guy, though, and he didn't, though. But he ended up, he's not stiff now. Oh. Well, he was just in another state in, like, Virginia or somewhere, and he was in there for, like, three felonies.

Like, Larsney and a whole bunch of other shit. And he said they gave him time served in county for felonies. Where the fuck do they do that at? Oh, yeah. County is not a felony place. You can't, you can't serve your time. You can't serve felony time in county. I don't think anywhere.

I mean, I could imagine, like, maybe a few weeks before they transfer you to the right place, but not your whole duration. You might get time credited towards your Philly, but you're not going to do your felony time there. I agree with you. And then he went to Alabama. And then he bought another little bit back here. Okay. So was this guy high or stoned when he was driving around like that? Yeah, of course we were.

I was on GHB, and he was how on fucking meth and GHB probably. All right. So you're leaving Chili's. You're speeding through... We're going to Chilis, going to Chilis, going through red lights, right past cop cars. Keep going. Pulling right behind us. Turn, the turn lights on, he pulls right over.

Doesn't even fucking drive five feet. He flams on a brake, pulls over. I got rid of all my cars, bro. The cops didn't kiss me with no car. That can kiss me with no plastic. You threw about the window? No, I put him down the side of the window, down into the door. Oh, it's smart.

Yeah, right in the glass. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't catch me no cards. They didn't catch me no gift cards. Everything. They caught my co-defendants with everything. I got eight years.

They got 10 years deferred, probation. Probation has never been an option for me. They've never given me probation or offered me probation. Wait, so when the car got pulled over, is that when you went to jail or you got off? Yeah. I went to jail that night. Well, how? How did you?

Because you didn't have the cards. How'd they know it was you? The cops got the receipts. And they're, because they were just, the car's packed full of shit. Oh, yeah. That was just where, the last place we went was Home Depot. And so he's got all the shit. And they ended up open up the box, a security camera box.

We got the MSR and it and shit. And they just, they, they, they, they were in my name and they see what I was in federal prison for. And they're like, what's the access to vice fraud? So they always ask me, every time I get pulled over. What's access to wife fraud? You ever lose your credit card or get stolen? It's interesting how vivid Nathan's memories are in those moments right before being arrested.

That must be like a flash-bold moment for a lot of people, you know? Like, you remember it so perfectly clear. It's almost like those are the last moments of freedom that his brain holds on to. Or maybe he replays those moments again and again in his head to try to think what he could have done differently. Anyway, the cops found swiping equipment in the car and quickly put, the pieces together that he was still due in swiping. So they arrested him and took him to jail

again. This time he pled guilty and they sentenced him to eight years in prison. And the main crime they were saying he did is that he swiped a stolen card at Home Depot and bought $2,200 worth of gift cards. Okay, so this is the second time

you go into prison? Eight years they put you in for $2,200? Like, that's a lot for just such a small amount. I mean, but they know that I was doing more than that, though. So what they, I mean, what were there? Like Texas, Texas, I mean, you know how it fucked up the legal system is. It's fucked up in every state, I'm sure.

It is, but what were they saying your charges were? I mean, it wasn't just the $2,200. You're wiping for $2,200. They charge with engaging or act criminal activity. Mm-hmm. So it was your felony. The first one was they were saying you did a million dollars in damage. What were they saying here?

They didn't say nothing. They just said $2,200 shit from fucking... It's just so hard that there's eight years in prison for $2,200 stolen. Tell me about it. Because they didn't charge me to see it. Like if I would have got caught in Dallas, bro, they would charge me with credit card fraud and abuse. It would have been a state jail felony maximum two years. But since I was out there and I got caught with two other people,

they're doing this shit in Texas now, and they're charging people with basically a conspiracy in the state. And it's crazy. At that time, it's not a dollar amount anymore. See, so, like, it goes up and higher towards how much the dollar amount it is. But once you're charged, once you get the enhancement of engaging more astromal activity, it's enhanced from a second-degree felony to a first-degree felony, and then therefore, not. Jeez, man.

Okay. They're trying to give me 15, bro. 15. And my homeboy paid $10,000 for a lawyer for him in the state. And they came down to eight. So I took the eight. And you went to prison for eight years. Yeah.

And self-reformed while there and got out, you know, you're a good boy. Now I'm a good boy. Okay. We made it. Is it true? Are you doing good now? Everything I do now is ethical. Okay.

Hey. So that's... But, you know, it took all that and all the trauma that I went through and what happened to my kids while I was in prison and my dad died while I was in prison and everything for me to finally wake up. What happens to your dad? My dad died when I was in prison, bro. It was horrible.

Like two worst fears that something happened to my kids and I'm not being there when I was in prison and then something happened to one of my parents while I was in prison. Something happened to my kids who I was in prison and my dad died while I was in prison. My two worst fears came through four years while I was in prison. I was in prison the second time. How did your dad die?

He had a heart attack, I think. I mean, he was in the hospital, like, his blood was septic and shit. Like, he had a bad heart. Like, he had health conditions for, like, 15 years. Pretty much his heart. He wouldn't quit eating salt, bro. That's awful, man. I'm sorry, you went through that.

Yeah. You know, he always promised he'd be there and shit. At the end of the day, I took Feastin' it because I knew my dad loved me. I know he knows I loved him, so I find Feastening it in that. But I never have to ask the questions that you always want to ask your dad when you get older, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have to answer you in questions.

Okay. God damn. It's crazy. And that's just a snippet. That's just the one moment. That's just a bliff on the radar. God has mature at a lot of your older ages and women. Like, I don't think it finally clicked it for me.

until I was about 38. So, did you serve all eight years? Yeah. And I went back for violation after that, and they fucking help me for another fucking four months, fucking cocksuckers. For violation, yeah. So that's four years plus eight years.

That's 12 years. Like with the extra time that I had to do for the violation, all the extra days and shit, I was pretty much about 13 years. Yeah, 13 years. And I was thinking you have three kids nows, and two of those were, there for the first one

and one was there for the second, right? So that's... Well, no, all three of them were there. My 16-year-old that's here with me today, she was there, she was like one year and two months when I got arrested and went to the feds. So I missed her whole life.

Yeah, yeah. The middle one was three when I first got locked up and the oldest one was six when I first got locked up. My mom is the three years apart. Yeah, that's a huge gap to not see that. That must be really hard. That's the hard. hardest part right there that's the hard part because you can't ever get the time back and now

they're grown and doing their own thing so you don't get the time that you want you know what I mean yeah yeah they're on their own schedule now yeah but uh you know I'm I'm in their life and we have good relationships uh at least I do I do I have good relationships with the youngest and the oldest for sure the middle one uh she still has a lot of resentment she's uh but she'll get there Okay. You know, their mother painted a bad picture of me. She made me look like the monster. And what it was is we were both young and stupid at the end of the day, you know.

And we both made bad decisions. Neither one of was perfect. That's the reality of it. But I take responsibility for all of it because I'm the man. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. I mean, the mom was part of that Walmart scam anyway.

So I know that she's not the cleanest. You know, we're both heated on each other and all that shit, you know. what a crazy story I know man like fucking and you know all I want to do now it's like when we were kids

growing up we didn't have nobody to look up to yeah we didn't have hackers that fucking have been doing this shit their whole lives to look up to because it started with us

wait are you telling me you're going to be you want to be someone that people look up to I want to be the one that help save the world and I want to help kids I want to help children bro

I want to help you I'm going to meet the world a better play. I'm going to come out with first jailbreak for the fucking robots, bro. You better buy my shit. I'm going to start pre-send the jailbreak for robots right now. Okay, you're going to save us from the robots. I mean, who else is going to save us from the digital world?

That could be a fair redemption art. When the robots turn on us and the computers turn on us, who's going to save us? It's not going to be fucking Joe down the street that's working on your car. It's not going to be crooked McDonald's. It's making your burger. It's going to be you. Well, not just me.

It's going to be all of us. Okay. I will buy your shit when it comes in. Robots could just take over and just kill us all. No, you've got to save us now. I'm hoping you're going to do it. According to AI, we have a 50% chance to survive AI, we have a 50% chance to survive robots.

Okay. I think if you've survived, all this, then you've got a fair chance of surviving the rest of whatever's coming. I don't know how you made it this far. I mean, because I wake up every day with a smile on my face, and no matter what I happened before. How many times did you come close to

dying in your life? I was in a coma when I first got out. I had an overdose, and by the time I got to the hospital, I was breathing at 30%, so they put me in a induced coma. And when I tried waking up, I went crazy on them and tried fighting them all.

Yeah. I kind of fill my legs so I set up in my bed and told them to line it. I thought I was having flashbacks so I was in prison. I rid my restraints off and everything. They had to have like eight people hold me down and hit me with like three things to put me to sleep. And then fucking they got off of me and they started tying me back up and I woke back up on their bitch ass.

Jesus. Okay. So that was one time being close to death. Any other times? When I was probably about 15th, huffing some air. This is from, you know,

I had a little air soft gun that I mean, to paint model cars with and I was up in the air and my dad woke me up and I was choking on my throw up my bed was covered in throw up and I was laying on my back I'd have died and my dad didn't wake up and come get me

Yeah, see this is what I mean Like you've survived all these things Not only that but all the shootings in your neighborhood And probably stabbing in prison I've been shot and stab A prison was the worst Like when we first got to 11th There was fixing to be a riot between the seranios and the whites

and over TV Yeah And I mean There's probably about At least we made Probably about 200 snakes at night Look like vampire steaks But knives

Jeez And that's your arrival And they're like You gotta join a side Come on We're fixing for war Jesus Christ What a way

And you get pushed over Like it's just like in the world You're in a shark full of tanks You're gonna be a guppy Or you're gonna become a shark Oh man Yeah I mean That's what I'm saying is

If you've survived all that, then I think that you're good for the rest of your life. You've cashed in all your looking chips. I've got this in prison three years now, so my versidivism rate of going back to prison is pretty fucking low. Yeah, yeah. And your survival rate is pretty high. You've gone through the worst things of your life and you're still doing good. I mean, you're still alive. I'm not doing good.

I'm still struggling. You know what I'm free? I got my freedom. I got my health. And I got the people that love me around me. You know what I'm saying? So that's my blue. That's my zen.

I say we leave it as that. walking off into the sunset with your loved ones near you. It was good talking to you. All right, man. Thanks for sharing your story. Bye. You have a good one. Bye.

Thank you. Thank you so much to Nathan Michael for sharing this story with us. What a wild life he's lived. And he's only 45 now. So he's got a great big life ahead of them. And I'm certain it'll be drama-free from here on out. I've got your next favorite shirt already. It's at shop.darknetdireys.com.

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