Dateline NBC - Journey for Justice

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

Craig Melvin speaks with the families of George Floyd, Jacob Blake and Eric Garner about police brutality, racial injustice and a shared commitment to turn their pain into advocacy work.

Welcome to Dateline, everyone. I'm Lester Holt. A new call for justice in America. It was a defining movement of 2020 and perhaps of our time. Police shootings, protests, tragedies that just keep happening. Tonight, three families at the very center of this struggle have come together for the first time, united in a powerful plea for change. Here's Craig Melvin. 2020 was a year like no other, testing America at every turn. But it was the wave of police violence against African-Americans last spring and summer

that pushed many to the breaking point. Millions of protesters poured into the streets heartbroken and angry over what many see as a longstanding pattern of police brutality. Who do you protect? Who do you serve? of police brutality. George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Rayshard Brooks, Elijah McClain, and Jacob Blake all tragically became household names in 2020, putting their family's grief on public display in ways almost impossible to understand and thrusting the family members into unfamiliar roles at the head of a movement. The people marching in the streets are telling you enough is enough. Tonight, Dateline brings some of these families together for the first time. The siblings of George Floyd, who died under a Minneapolis police

officer's knee. The father and sister of Jacob Blake, who was shot in the back multiple times by Kenosha, Wisconsin police. And the mother and son of Eric Garner, whose death from a New York City police officer's chokehold in 2014, in some ways gave rise to today's movement. This is my family. We didn't choose this family. This family chose us. They hope what they have to say, what many Black Americans have said for decades about unequal systems of justice in America, will finally be heard. And they especially hope the Biden administration, which takes office in two weeks, is listening.

First of all, how does it feel just being in the same room with people who have experienced the kind of loss that you guys have all felt? I think it's a kind of a unity because we've all have a certain bond now because we know what it is to lose a loved one or to get a loved one so severely injured that it takes a part of us. And it's so easy to look at each one of these people here and know they get it, man. They get it. Because you never asked to be in this situation. But for somebody else's racism, we're in this situation because we are not looked at like humans.

Many black Americans routinely face small acts of racism in their everyday lives, but they're also aware that something small can quickly escalate into something dangerous. Just as it did this past Memorial Day, when two Minneapolis police officers approached a car driven by 46-year-old George Floyd. Let's see your hands. Seen on this video that's become all too familiar, but still extremely difficult to watch. Please, let's have both hands. Do nothing.

He had been reported for allegedly using a counterfeit $20 bill. Please don't shoot me, man. Don't shoot me. Unarmed, Floyd was forced out of his car and handcuffed. Officers then tried to move him into the backseat of their police cruiser. Two more officers arrived, including Derek Chauvin, I can't breathe. Please. Who dragged Floyd out of the police car onto the street. Then he pressed his knee onto Floyd's neck. I can't breathe.

Please leave my dick. Bystanders breathe. Bleeds in my neck. Bystanders screamed at Chauvin to stop. You stop and he's breathing right now, bro. You think that's cool? Get off of his neck. Get off of him now. But while the other officers stood by, Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck

for nearly nine and a half minutes. Mama, I love you. Rich, I love you. Get my keys, I love you. I love you. I love you. I'm dead. George Floyd was pronounced dead a short time later. Video of the killing began to be shared

widely that night. For Lonis Floyd, a truck driver was on the road when he saw the video. When he narrated his death, it was like a motion cinema picture. The man had his knee on his neck. He didn't care. He had his hands in his pockets.

George Floyd's sister Bridget still can't bear to look. I'm just not ready for that. But the video going viral, hey, what is going to be done? So what it went viral? What are y'all going to do about it now that the nation has seen it? Amen to justice! That video, of course, produced a seismic shock.

First, in Minneapolis, where the reaction went from grief and determination... Justice! Justice! ...to anger. Justice! Justice! determination to anger. Then the protests spread around the country, around the world. All this attention on George's death was quite overwhelming for the Floyds, a working class family, a religious family who generally minded their own business. Were there moments where you thought, wow, this reaction, I can't get my head around this reaction? Or was the reaction precisely what it should have been?

The reaction? Black people, they're tired, man. Enough is enough. I think it was more trying to wrap it around. It just didn't seem what it was. That was wrong. The family had been pushed into the spotlight and realized they were at the center of a massive movement. This is a global movement. People in Paris, Ghana, just different places, they are looking and they're like, that was wrong. Welcome, everyone.

George Floyd's funeral was carried live on multiple networks. Everybody going to remember him around the world. He's going to change the world. As they laid their brother to rest, George Floyd's siblings decided they wanted to honor his memory and become leaders of that change. His death would not be in vain. And for guidance, they would turn to someone who knew exactly what they were going through, because she'd been through it herself. I says, I know that y'all have a video and you have the nation behind you at this time, but don't think it's a slam dunk. When we come back. My son was killed five years ago today.

The pain is still fresh for the family of Eric Garner. They always see us as armed and dangerous. And in reality, they are the ones armed and dangerous. This young man was crying for his mother at the end. That was like my son echoing from the grave. When Gwen Carr saw the video of George Floyd's death, she reached out to his family, people she had never met. I just felt like an echo.

I felt like a need to be there for comfort, for support, for solidarity. Do you remember what she said when she called? Pretty much. She'd been through it before and told us, you have to get through it and you have to keep pushing. George's brother, Rodney, says he's grateful Gwen was there to show them the way. The situation, we didn't know how to react. And honestly, seeing her for the first time, I'm going to tear you out

talking about it, but just seeing that woman's strength. Because it was so new, and I knew the heartbreak that was there. I know, like, when this happens to you, you don't know which way to turn, who to turn to. My son was killed

five years ago today! For many Black Americans, the death of Gwen's son, Eric Garner, is a painful and haunting memory. And another video that is still hard to watch. I'm minding my business. Please just leave me alone. On July 17, 2014, two New York City police officers approached 43-year-old Garner on a Staten Island street, accusing him of selling Lucy's or untaxed cigarettes. I told you the last time, please leave me alone. Don't touch me.

Don't touch me. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Don't touch me, please. When the 6-foot-2-inch Garner resisted arrest, Officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold, a tactic long banned by the NYPD. Four additional officers then helped hold him down. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. After pleading, I can't breathe, 11 times, Garner fell unconscious.

An ambulance was called, and he went into cardiac arrest. Can you back up, please? We're trying to give him some air. We're going to get an ambulance, all right? Garner was pronounced dead about an hour later. He left behind six children. His namesake, Eric Snipes, is one of them. You were 20 years old when your father was killed. And I was leaving for college. I know. I know.

We had got him all ready for college. How has that shaped you and your interactions, not just with police, but just with the world? It was hard. It was struggling. And then watching a George Floyd video, it just, like, ain't no hope for us. Officer Chauvin left his knee on George Floyd's neck. The events of 2020 were hard on young Eric.

He felt the protests did nothing to change the fact that black men are killed disproportionately by police. And while government data on the topic is limited, several studies confirm he's right. A recent Harvard study concluded black people, on average, are three times more likely than white people to be killed during a police encounter. Eric wonders if police officers pay attention to what's happening. All these videos that go viral, they have to see them. It's just like they just don't have no remorse. And we supposed to be calm when we have every right to be mad at the world. Why y'all not sticking up for us? And y'all supposed to serve and protect us.

They always see us as armed and dangerous. And in reality, they are the ones armed and dangerous. They looked at us as America's most wanted. And they can just shoot us or choke us out on the spot. They say get back. We say fight back. Gwen remembers the outrage and media attention after her son died. I can't breathe. How his final words, I can't breathe, became a rallying cry for a movement that ultimately faded. It always starts. It always starts. It always starts.

It always starts. It always starts. It always starts. But see, then it dies down. What's it now? What's it now? Many felt the reaction over George Floyd's killing seemed more intense, widespread, and potentially lasting. Demonstrations included people of all races, all ages. We need to stand up and say that

Black Lives Matter. And members from both sides of the political aisle. Filonis was even invited to speak at a congressional hearing on police brutality. The same day my brother's funeral, I flew out to Washington, had no time to make an adjustment, no time to grieve. Thank you for the invitation here today to talk about my big brother, George. Philonise, the married truck driver who lived a quiet life in Houston, was suddenly an advocate. I can't tell you the kind of pain you feel when you watch something like that. When you watch your big brother, who you looked up to your whole entire life, die, die begging for his mom on a George and make the necessary changes that make law enforcement the solution and not the problem.

You made headlines with that moving address to lawmakers. How did you arrive at a point where you could do that? Me? Going there? I was speaking for everybody. Not just me. Everybody. Amen. You didn't have to take that pain and turn it into this activism and this advocacy. But you have. Why? Unity, solidarity, everybody needs to stand together.

And until I can get that satisfaction of understanding and knowing that I matter, my life matters here, it'll never be the same for me. I will have to keep protesting. But the summer was heating up and that resolve was about to be tested. Coming up. Sitting there watching a child. A father overcome with emotion sometimes you get tired cries out for change our purpose is to change these laws we're not asking we're demanding when dateline continues For weeks after George Floyd's death, protesters continued to fill the streets, angry and in tears.

I won't be satisfied until I can wake up and have kids and have them not fear their lives just for being black. Most were peaceful and law-abiding, but some turned violent. Businesses were looted and properties destroyed. Then, on August 23rd, another flashpoint. Another video that's still difficult to watch. 13-707, 40thQuisha Booker and Jacob Blake Jr., a 29-year-old man with an outstanding arrest warrant for allegedly assaulting her.

When police arrived, they got into an altercation with Blake as they tried to arrest him. The footage shows Blake walking to the driver's side of his vehicle. That's Officer Rustin Sheskey coming close behind, gun drawn. Blake leans into the car as Sheskey fires seven shots, paralyzing him from the waist down. Booker witnessed the shooting as her three kids with Blake sat in the back seat. You shot him numerous times for no reason. It didn't take all that. Disregard that my kids was in the car at all. And you knew they

was in there. But earlier this week, Kenosha County District Attorney Michael Gravely told reporters there was a reason Jacob Blake was holding a knife. The question to a jury would be, did Officer Sheskey reasonably believe that the shooting at Jacob Blake was necessary to prevent being stabbed by him? The DA said Sheskey would have had a strong case for self-defense and didn't charge any of the officers involved. Jacob Blake Sr. has insisted all along that there is no justification for what happened to his son. When does not listening to the police, when they tell you to stop walking justify seven shots to the back. Anything they do to African-Americans or brown people in this country is justified with freaking hatred.

Deep-seated hatred. Deep-seated hatred. Jacob Sr. is most angry about what he saw when he arrived at the hospital. You see your son, conditioned, paralyzed from waist down, and he's handcuffed. That now, when that happened, oh Lord. That strike my nerve. It was not a handcuff. It was a shackle. Where was he going?

It's a mental jail. I was so enraged that I didn't talk to anybody. I didn't talk to his mother, his sisters. I didn't talk to anybody the whole night. Jacob Jr. is still paralyzed and recovering with the help of his family. Mr. Blake, we know how he is physically, but emotionally, how is Jacob? He has pain 24 hours a day. So it works on you.

Take your time. It's okay. Now let it out. Take your time. It's okay. Now let it out. Sitting there watching your child. Jesus. Go through this but you can't go in there with him with tears and i don't get an off day i'm sorry y'all no apology needed so sometimes you get tired And what these families have grown most tired of is a criminal justice system

they say is neither fair nor equal. I tell y'all there's two systems of justice. It is. There's a white system for white people. And there's just us. That's right. We don't get no justice. There's just us. And there's research to support their claims. Black people make up only 13% of the nation's population, yet they represent a third of the prison population. So what do these families want to do? Our purpose is to change these laws. Our purpose is to implement what we want. We're not

asking. We're demanding. What does having advocates like them, what does that do for the cause? I think it gives a face for the cause, a face for the movement.

Civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump represents the Blake and Floyd families and many others. Are you at all concerned that part of the legacy of 2020 is also going to be an anti-police sentiment that has been created in this country? I hope not. I think that we need police to do their jobs for everybody in America. That is to protect and serve us. However, what we need is those good police officers to say something when they see bad police officers do bad things. But as the shootings and protests have shown,

the debate over policing is far more complicated than that. And the police also have something to say about it. Coming up, the shot in the back. Isn't that the very definition of excessive force? Law enforcement speaks out. Next. definition of excessive force? Law enforcement speaks out next. This is a room filled with pain. Families who've lost or watched loved ones suffer because of police violence.

It's also a room filled with anger toward a profession that vows to protect and serve. If you could sit down face to face with someone who supports law enforcement, what would you say? Probably spit on them and walk out the room. All police officers are bad. Yes. I don't trust none of them. Jacob Blake's sister, Latitra Weidman. You sit us down in front of someone that calls themselves the law, but they're living above the law and we are supposed to respect that. We wanted to hear from the heads of police unions in the cities where George Floyd and Eric Garner died and Jacob Blake was left paralyzed. We also reached out to the police chiefs of Minneapolis and Kenosha. They either declined or did not respond to our interview requests, though someone did want to speak.

It's important for law enforcement to acknowledge that there is a family. There are loved ones grieving in these cases. Jim Palmer represents the largest police union in Wisconsin, though not the officers in Kenosha where Jacob Blake was shot. The most common reaction that I encountered following the tragic death of George Floyd was one of outrage. But other cases, like the shooting of Jacob Blake, have provoked a more complicated response. There were a lot of officers that said, well, we shouldn't rush to judgment. We ought to know more. I think that was fair. But he's shot in the back. Isn't that the very definition of excessive force?

It could be, is the answer. The courts have long held that officers can shoot a subject in the back if they're fleeing, if they pose a substantial risk to the officers or the answer. The courts have long held that officers can shoot a subject in the back if they're fleeing, if they pose a substantial risk to the officers or the public. I don't think sitting here today we have enough information to know whether that exists. In general, though, how do officers feel about being held criminally accountable for the use of excessive force that kills or injures? I think it's fair to say that no one wants a bad cop out of their profession more than a good one. If an officer breaks the law, they ought to be held accountable. The families that we talk to have said that policing in America is systemically racist.

What do you say to that? There are systemic disparities that exist all throughout our country. And I think it's also perhaps unfair to say that all of this should be laid on the doorstep of law enforcement. We put the question to someone who has studied policing. Philip Goff is a social scientist and Yale University professor. To those who would say there is not systemic racism in policing, you would say what? I'm sorry. That's what I'd say. Because they're not looking at anything like real data.

He points to overwhelming research showing anti-black bias in law enforcement. The best way to end it, he says, is not by changing what individual officers believe, but how they behave by rewriting police policy. If you do a policy in such a way that it drives day-to-day activity, you're building culture. That's how you change institutions, is you change culture. Though reinventing a culture, he admits, can be challenging. Consider the Minneapolis Police Department. In 2016, Goff started helping officials there rework rules on the use of force. During the time we were mostly

there, 2016 to 2018, Minneapolis dropped their use of force by about 18 percent. Good news, right? And the communities within Minneapolis felt that their police department got less racist during the period of time when we were working. But he says he told officials repeatedly that those policies, new rules for how police used force, could be undermined by a few cynical officers. I said to Chief Rondo, who is there right now, you have a group of officers who don't care about the trainings. They're just waiting for you to get fired and for the next person to get in. He says a month after their last conversation, George Floyd was killed by a veteran Minneapolis police officer with a history of complaints against him. You can make the argument that if trainings were better, Officer Chauvin doesn't put a knee on the neck, or the

other officers actually engage in the duty to intervene. There was a culture that the senior officer is not questioned, and that's what happened. Still, he believes police departments can transform toxic cultures in part by changing their makeup. He points to a recent study on Chicago's efforts to diversify its force. There's just brand new research showing that there are real substantial gains in lower arrest, lower stop, lower use of force as Black and Latinx folks join police forces. But activists like Ben Crump say they doubt police departments on their own can make the kind of profound changes that are needed. He wants the federal government to get involved,

to free up money for more police body cameras, and to ban no-knock warrants and chokeholds. In many cities, the chokehold is still legal. But calling for change is one thing, getting it another. That's why at the end of last summer, Crump and thousands more, including some familiar faces, would march to the nation's doorstep to demand action. Every black person in the United States is going to stand up. The only question was whether anyone on Capitol Hill would listen.

Coming up. We can no longer use the excuse of being deaf to the cries of justice. Those police officers who are risking their lives, those good ones, they feel like they're getting kicked in the rear end. A debate and a defeat. Many said that your bill perhaps went too far. Maybe they should start going to some of these funerals that I go to. When Dateline continues.

These families say there are two ways of policing in America, one for white people and another for black people. We have to have two different conversations with our children. We have to tell them how to react when they're stopped by the police. White people don't have that conversation. We have to say all these things. If you stop while you're driving, keep your hands on the wheel. Why do we have to have two different conversations?

If we're all American, we're all paying taxes. And unfortunately, our young people don't even have that luxury of being young and having poor judgment, because a poor judgment for a white kid in America gets you a slap on the wrist. Poor judgment for a African-American kid can get you killed. That's right. In the days following George Floyd's death, some progressives called for defunding police departments, a position that roiled many on the left and the right. Still, Washington scrambled to respond to the crisis. President Trump issued an executive order calling for changes in policing.

We need to bring law enforcement and communities closer together, not to drive them apart. Republican Senator Tim Scott proposed a police bill that quickly died in the Senate after Democrats said it did not go far enough. In the House, Representative Karen Bass put forward yet another piece of legislation called the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. The piece of legislation was a compilation of bills that members of the Congressional Black Caucus have worked on for years. The legislation was sweeping in scope. It would withhold federal funding for police departments in states that have not banned chokeholds. It would create a database for tracking problem officers, and it would lower the bar for federal charges and conviction. Right now, federal prosecutors have to prove an officer intended to

kill. The bill would make it easier to convict by showing the officer was acting recklessly. Would it make it easier to convict an officer accused of killing an unarmed civilian? Yes, it would actually take the criminal standard down from willfully to recklessly or knowingly. Representative Cedric Richmond of Louisiana is one of the bill's co-sponsors. The standard right now, if you want to prosecute a police officer, is so high that it just shouldn't even exist because it's too hard to meet that bar. The bill even seeks to end what's called qualified immunity, making it easier for civilians to sue individual officers in federal court.

Police representatives say that would have a chilling effect on the profession. I don't know who's going to do the job of policing in America if that's the standard that we're going to hold law enforcement officers to. America's conflicted attitudes on police reform were being reflected by its politicians as the House took up the bill in late June. Democrats backing it. We can no longer use the excuse of being deaf to the cries of justice. Republicans largely opposing it. Those police officers who are risking their lives, those good ones,

they feel like they're getting kicked in the rear end. Things got heated when Representative Richmond, a Democrat, accused Republicans of trying to water down the legislation with amendments. It is about black males, black people in the streets that are getting killed. And if one of them happens to be your kid, I'm concerned about him too. And clearly I'm more concerned about him than you are. So let's be clear about that. You're claiming you're more concerned for my family than I do? Who in the hell do you think you are? Gentlemen, if the shoe fits. On June 25th, the measure passed, mostly along party lines, and headed to the Republican-controlled Senate.

Worried about its future, members of the Floyd and Blake families and thousands more streamed on to the Lincoln Memorial to mark the anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s I Have a Dream speech. Their message to senators? Pass that bill. Valonis Floyd gave a rallying speech. Everybody out here right now, our leaders, they need to follow us while we're marching to enact laws to protect us. Jacob Blake Sr. addressed the crowd too. No justice, no peace. Just days after your son had been shot, you decided to go to Washington and participate in

the marching. Why was that so important to you? Because my father was at the original march on Washington. My father marched from Selma to Montgomery. You know, he was never fearful. He was ready to do what he had to do. I was never fearful. I knew I had to fight for my son so that everyone would know who he is. The event, a call to action, but also a time of shared pain. It's a lot of families, a lot of families that didn't go viral. I witnessed that in Washington. That's right. People were just walking up and telling me stuff. I was like, wow, because so true.

Some stuff similar to them. It happened to us. But nobody cares because they didn't have the footage. But in the end, the voices raised here did not move the ones here. The bill did not make it to the Senate floor last year for a vote. Many on the other side of the aisle said that your bill, while well-intentioned perhaps, went too far. What would you say to them? Well, I would say that maybe they should start going to some of these funerals that I go to. Maybe they should talk to some of the families that I talk to. So now, after a long and dispiriting year, these families are left to wonder,

does police reform, the kind they envision, really have a future? Coming up, where does the fight go from here? I think it's a journey to justice. There's other families out there. We gotta keep pushing. We got to keep pushing. We have to. The George Floyd Justice in Policing Act is sitting somewhere in the nation's Senate chambers.

Still waiting for votes, still just a dream. And now we are back to where we started, when the man who inspired that legislation became a household name. So much has and has not happened. But shorthands, are you more optimistic about change coming as a result of what you've all experienced? Well, I could halfway raise my hand.

This is a pessimistic group. It's not a matter of pessimism, though. Someone that's pessimistic will be presented with all of the facts that things are getting better, but they choose to just keep on believing negatively. That's not the case here. What we're being presented is a vicious cycle that keeps happening over and over and over in different forms. The way they see it, that stalled bill is a sign. Nothing changing. Nothing moving to the next step.

So, how can they? I've never been in your situation, but have you all gotten to a point where you are forgiving? How? After he gets seven bullets in his neck, then maybe I'll forgive him. But until then, no. No forgiveness here. None. Then maybe I'll forgive him, but until then, no. No forgiveness here. How are we supposed to forgive the person that not only murdered our loved one, but is also out there walking in the street?

Business as usual. In the Eric Garner case, a grand jury declined to indict the officer who used that chokehold. He was fired in 2019, five years after Garner's death. In the Jacob Blake case, where the DA did not file charges against the officers involved, a federal investigation is ongoing. But in the George Floyd case, four officers were immediately fired and charged with crimes, including second-degree murder for Derek Chauvin. The officers have not yet pleaded in court. The events over the past year, what do you think they are going to mean for policing

moving forward? Well, I hope it brings about the kind of change that we need to in this country. And if we, just as a law enforcement community, don't take a more proactive role. And we shouldn't be surprised when the public reaction grows more severe and the calls for reform are more radical. Jim Palmer says his union has taken the initiative, calling for more body cameras, beefed up community policing, and de-escalation training for its members. Meanwhile, in Washington, there has, of course, been a big change that could affect federal policies. In two weeks, Joe Biden becomes president, and Cedric Richmond will be pushing for reforms in his new position as senior advisor to the president. What are you going to advise the president to do about policing reform in this country? My advice to him is going

to be use political capital to try to get this done because at the end of the day, it saves lives. The fact that a president will say this is important, let's talk about it, let me convene different sides so that we can come together and address legislation, I think that's a lot different than what we had. But civil rights activists like Ben Crump say it's still up to average Americans to keep the pressure on politicians to act. He says history has taught us that. You're optimistic. I get the sense you're optimistic. I am optimistic. Do you think, though, sometimes that perhaps with regards to race relations, we've gone backwards in our country?

I think it's a journey to justice. I think about the precedence of how we overcame slavery. I think about the precedence of how we overcame Reconstruction, how we overcame Pleasant v. Ferguson, how we overcame separate but equal, how we overcame Jim Crow. Whatever they throw at black people in America, we're going to overcome it based on precedence. Gwen Carr's journey is proof of that. In the long run, we expect justice. After her son died, she struggled for years to get the Eric Garner Anti-Chokehold Act passed in New York State. I've been fighting, I've been rallying, I've been going up to Albany speaking with the lawmakers. The bill sought to criminalize police chokeholds, but for five years she met resistance. Finally, after George Floyd's

death, Gwen had the public momentum she needed and prevailed. It was a long time coming, but it came. And thank you. Thank you all very much. The neck restraints used on Eric Garner and George Floyd are now illegal in the state of New York and punishable by up to 15 years in prison. New York City police unions have filed a lawsuit to overturn the legislation. But the families in this room are prepared for obstacles. We got to keep pushing.

We have to. Because if we don't, it'll just be another dead body on the floor. Gwen, you've been doing this a little bit longer than they have. Yes. Does it get easier? It doesn't get easier. But there's other families out there. There's generations that we have to save, and that's our job now.

And long as I think we stay together and become a bridge of strength, that we can do this. Their call for change is urgent. We need to hear it and heed it. That's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again Friday at 9, 8 central. And of course, I'll see you each weeknight for NBC Nightly News. I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.