Dateline NBC - Killer Role

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

After filming wraps on an indie horror film, the cast and crew learn their killer star isn’t who she says she is. It’s a plot twist that reveals a real-life killer. Keith Morrison reports.

Tonight, on Dateline, something chilling. Get out of here! A recording of a killing. Jesus! Oh, God! She shot him! Captured by the killer herself. My jaw hit the floor.

I heard the gunshot, and then I hear him yell, You shot me! I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what to do here. What story did she tell? She was terrified of him. Then I hear him yell, you shot me. I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to do here. What story did she tell? She was terrified of him. You know you're not supposed to be here. Get out of here. I have a gun, please.

She seemed very dramatic. It was hard to determine if it was actual emotion that was happening or was she just putting on a show? I saw her mugshot. Here we have this young, talented actress. We didn't know the full story. She's not who she says she is. Did somebody put her up to this? I had that nagging in my mind. There was more going on here. I'm Lester Holt and this is Dateline. Here's Keith Morrison with Killer Roll.

This is a horror movie. Oh yes, a horror movie with all its requisite darkness. Its setting, its spine-chilling story, its disturbing characters. But really... Please stop! Where does performance end and reality begin? Jackson County 911 emergency. Tell me what the emergency is. All I can tell you is a gun went off.

This is also a story about family, about ambition, accomplishment, sharing. Are you in danger? Yes. Okay, is the person that did the firing of the weapon, are they there now? Yes. So, yes, a horror movie. Matthew Spickard and his daughter Trinity live in the Siskiyou Mountains of southern Oregon. Isolated, yes, but an area noted for artists of all kinds. Trinity and her dad had evolved into a talented,

even quirky little duo, performing as musicians one night, comedians the next, and stage actors whenever the chance came along. I was 14. I was going into the ninth grade. That's when Trinity said to her dad, Why don't we make a movie? We're kind of blissfully blind. We're just like, oh, we'll just do it. It'll be fine.

In these mountains, myths are as persistent as the rain. Here some people swear to seeing Bigfoot wandering through deep woods. And the undead might just be a story. Or maybe not. So, what movie did dad and daughter write? From the Dark, they called it. It ends up being a movie about isolation and paranoia. It's kind of a film about the human response to fear, I think. Yes.

Southern Oregon is unique in many ways. Not the least of which is is its awash in performers. The state's renowned Shakespeare Company has spawned a network of community theater troops. Trinity's dad, a professional glassblower, counted up the money he'd been squirreling away for a motorcycle and used it instead to hire a local screenwriter and a director and a musician.

And then? Then came casting. It really only became serious once we started casting people. Hey, we're actually going to do this. Yeah. The lead character, Valerie, was in nearly every scene. The success of the film would be riding on her shoulders. So the filmmakers were looking for somebody who could be a star. Easier said than done. And by the final day of casting... We were just kind of sitting in the audition room and we're like, man, we have not found our Valerie yet. Valerie or Damon.

We were kind of freaking out action get back to work you saturday and then she walked in and just blew it out of the water i'm valerie i don't know if you remember my name she was win reed yes she was such a phenomenal actor it was just insane. We absolutely adored her. She definitely seemed to really nail it. Mig Windows tried out for the Valerie role, but understood once they got to rehearsals why Wynne beat her out.

We could hear Wynne rehearsing with her scene partner, and she had absolute panic in her voice. At first, we thought something had happened. Huh? We thought, oh, my God, like, is everything okay over there? Oh, my God, no, they're just rehearsing the scene, and they're much better than us. Once they had their star, the filmmakers could focus

on finding the perfect location to film their psychodrama, though, really, only one place would do. It was an old chateau near the Oregon Caves, way out at the farthest reaches of a dead-end road, burrowed so deep into the Siskiyou Range it was beyond cell reception. Beautiful, and in the right hands. Spooky. As it happened, the chateau was empty, pending renovation. So here, in ink-dark caves and dimly-lit rooms, isolated, alone, they began. When we wrapped that first day inside the caves, I'm like, guys, this is going to work. This is going to happen. We just kept looking at each other and hugging each other and being like, we did it, guys. We did it. We did it. What an amazing experience.

And it was. The plot? The stranded staff of a mountain lodge slowly realizes one of them is a killer. But what these amateur movie makers couldn't possibly know was that out here, deep in the forest, they had become characters in someone else's horror story. Someone whose true identity was secret. Someone working, living, and sleeping among them. Someone who really was a killer.

Coming up, something eerily familiar about lead actress Wynne Reed. I really had a strong inkling that that was her. Was their star keeping a secret? She was like, let me tell you something about Wynne. And we are here. It was like some early scene in a star is born sort of story. Local girl comes out of nowhere, gets the lead in a feature film. Amateur, sure. As were the writers and producers of From the Dark.

But they were all veterans of Southern Oregon's vibrant live theater scene. The one thing they did know was acting. Action. Stop! And when Wynne Reed was on the set, they sensed they were in the presence of someone very special. She could easily pull out of motion the entire film. But this one scene, the one scene where, you know... Yeah, she comes up to me and she just asks me to tell her a sad story,

and the week before that, my dog died. And she started crying, and then we said, action. She could turn it on like that. She would walk into the scene with tears already coming down. Let's do this, let's go. I don't want to do that. Big Windows, that's her in the brown braid, admired Wynn's do this. Let's go. I don't want to do that. Mig Windows, that's her in the brown braid, admired Wyn's acting too.

But as the cameras rolled out here in their off-the-grid isolation, something began to bother Mig. Diane, I think it's time for you to go to bed. No. It was a weird feeling. Like, you know, maybe she was imagining it. Or maybe it was just this strange feeling that Wynne was... Diane! Well, not Wynne. She couldn't be sure. The hair was very different. And her face? Maybe not.

Yet Wynne reminded Mig of an old high school classmate, a woman named Tucker. Tucker Reed. I really had a strong inkling that that was her. She looked so much like her. Did she seem to recognize you? No. It was just so peculiar. Meg and this Tucker had been in plays together in high school. Years earlier, mind you, Meg hadn't seen Tucker since 2008. And I remember thinking I could really see her being someone who will succeed professionally.

That girl, the one Meg knew in high school, obviously thought so too back then. Her ambition, at least as recorded in her 2008 senior yearbook, to marry a well-heeled, well-connected, blockbuster, movie-making Hollywood producer, preferably with a summer home on the Cape. The high school Tucker Migg remembered also had a very, well, present mother. Kelly Moore was her name. Always around. Her mom would come to the theater to help her with her hair and makeup. But memories can be tricky. And now, years later, on the movie set, Mig began to doubt hers.

I was kind of 50-50 on it. You weren't sure if it was the same person or not? I was not sure. Because, you know, the other thing is like, how much can you trust your own brain after, you know, not seeing somebody except on Facebook for like 15 years, right? Could be a totally different girl. Reed is a really common last name.

On top of that, Wynne never showed even the tiniest flicker of recognition when her eyes fell upon Mig. So, no, this could not be Mig's old classmate, Tucker. At least that's what Mig believed until the day a woman, introduced as Wyn's relative, showed up on the set. And I saw that her relative had a bag full of hair and makeup stuff. Mig recognized her instantly. The relative was Kelly, Tucker's mom. And it just, it took me right back to high school seeing that. Now Mig was convinced her hunch was right. Wynne really

was Tucker. But she decided not to tell anybody because Tucker had what those in theater might call a complicated backstory. I was worried that that might bring up something for her, that she might go to a dark place or something, or I don't know. I guess I wasn't really sure what would happen, and that was one of the reasons

I just didn't really want to bring it up. But another cast member did when they were all back in town. And she was like, let me tell you something about when. And she's like, well, she's on trial for murder. Was it possible their movie killer was a killer? Coming up... I just remember being really afraid for my mom and for me a deadly shooting this time in real life why did you pick up the gun i was absolutely absolutely sure he was going to kill

my mother he was assaulting me it was horrifying when dateline continues. Action. Their movie was a thriller called From the Dark. What the hell are you doing? And they certainly were in the dark. The filmmakers, that is. Only after they wrapped the shoot did they find out that their leading lady, Wynne, was really named Tucker. And that in real life, Tucker Reed was in a serious heap of trouble.

She'd played a killer in their movie. And now they discovered that Tucker was facing criminal charges for killing her own uncle. When I watch the movie now, I feel like someone's messing with me. And it's a sick joke in a way that I don't get. You can use anything. They couldn't understand why Tucker would audition for anything, let alone that role. And of course, they wondered what happened to her in real life. Why would this vibrant young woman, so full of promise, kill a man? I just remember being really afraid for my mom and for me

as he pushed the door open more and more. So, to understand, it might help to see Tucker in another on-camera appearance. The date was July 26, 2016. Tucker at the police station. She seemed like a, to me, just on first blush, meek, mannered young lady that seemed upset. Tony Young was one of the detectives assigned to question Tucker about the killing that very day of her uncle, Shane Moore, brother of Kelly, Tucker's mom and sometimes makeup artist. It happened at Tucker's grandmother's house out in the country.

It was told to us in a way that painted the picture of Shane Moore coming in, trying to come into the front door of the residence, and Kelly fighting to keep him out because he was coming in to seriously assault or kill Kelly and Tucker. Tucker, her mom, and a notary were at her grandmother's 60-acre ranch to sign some estate documents.

I'll explain more about that later. The important thing is Tucker's uncle Shane, who lived on the property in a separate cabin, approached the grandmother's house to see what was going on. And there was some sort of confrontation, in the midst of which Tucker retrieved a revolver and shot Shane once in the chest, killing him. The big question, of course, was why? Why did you pick up the gun? I was absolutely sure he was going to kill my mother. Tucker described how the scene played out in terrifying cinematic detail as Shane tried to force his way into the house.

You know how in horror movies the hand goes around the door? Right. And he was, like, wedging himself so the door couldn't be closed again. How were you holding the gun at this point? It was only in one hand. I sort of remember just sort of having it in the air. It just happened so fast. Though she did warn him, she said.

Can you, in your best recollection, tell us, best you can, exactly what you said? Leave my mother alone? Get the hell out of here? What I'd like you to do, Tucker, is do it in the voice and the loudness that you actually said. Just reenact it for us. As loud as you need to be. You know I'm supposed to be here. Get out of here. I have a gun.

Leave. You're violent. We all know you're violent. Get out of here. It was very loud. There was no mistaking it. She didn't know how the gun worked, she said. Do you make a conscious decision to fire the gun? I don't think,

no. Tell me about that. Because to fire a gun, I've always thought you had to cock a gun. This gun doesn't do that. It just fired. She only grabbed the gun to threaten Shane. The shooting itself, she said, was really just an accident. That was Tucker's version of the story, anyway. There would be other ways to tell it, as you'll see. But at this point, there was really only one critic who mattered. And his review? She seemed very dramatic.

Lead detective Gabe Birchfield watched the interview from outside the room and found Tucker's body language telling. When looking at her, she seemed emotional. She was sitting in a chair. She'd pull her knees up to her chest and put her head between her knees and do different things like that. But when she wanted to say something, it didn't seem like she was upset. She would get it out there if it was a matter of fact.

He was dangerous and I hated him. But Tucker's mom in her interview with detectives was nothing but emotion. Rage. I don't grieve for my brother. I am glad this man is dead. Kelly backed up Tucker's account. Shane was violent, she said. Their lives were in

danger. I'm telling you that moments before my brother died, he was assaulting me with the door. He was screaming at me. He was trying to force his way into a house he had no right to be in. I didn't know what Shane was going to do. It was horrifying. What was going on here? Why were a mother and daughter confronted by an angry, violent man intent on doing something terrible to them? How could such a thing have happened? Quite a story, that. Worthy of a movie. Coming up. It seemed over the top. Growing doubts about Tucker's story. It was hard to determine if it was actual emotion that was happening or was she just putting on a show.

I had that nag to kill my uncle. I did not want to ruin my life. Just about the last place you'd expect to find Tucker Reed would be the inside of a police interrogation room. Or her mom, Kelly, for that matter. As the detectives soon found out, these were two very accomplished women. Kelly was once an attorney. She left the field to co-author with her then-husband a best-selling true crime book, Deadly Medicine, which was later adapted into a made-for-TV movie

appeared on NBC. And Tucker? She was always sort of ahead of the curve on everything. Tucker's dad, Daniel Reed, a former actor himself, said Tucker was a natural performer,

even as a child. Kelly would make these fantastic little costumes for Tucker. Peter Pan and a fairy angel. And she was, you know, she liked it. She got a lot of attention and she liked the costumes,

liked parading around. With some kids, they do that and they're not comfortable. And Tucker was always perfectly comfortable. And it was a delight to perceive. Okay, at this time we have a special number from Tucker Reed. By the time she was four, Tucker was the star of her preschool graduation ceremony, performing a cover of Shirley Temple's signature song. I'm a good ship, lovely boat.

But if childhood was a fairy tale for Tucker and her siblings, her father told us, it could have been written by the Brothers Grimm. Our kids grew up in a very, well, kind of like a war zone psychologically and emotionally. It was a very tense atmosphere that they were brought up into. I think it was February sometime in 2000 where our marriage ended. Difficult divorce?

Very contentious. Over what? What were the big issues? Where they were going to live and what kind of custody arrangement we were going to be able to agree to. She insisted on sole care, custody and control of their upbringing. Kelly won that fight. But after the divorce was settled, Daniel said he had immediate regrets, tried to get it overturned.

And so the judge asked me, why do you want me to set this aside? And I said, I can't tell you exactly, but I know that if you don't, something... something really bad is going to happen. But Daniel's feeling didn't persuade the judge. So Kelly was free to take their three children

and move to Southern Oregon to be closer to her parents and to the area's thriving performing arts scene. That is where Tucker met Mig Windows in Ashland High School's prestigious drama department. After high school graduation, while still a teenager, Tucker, along with her mom and sister, co-authored two young adult novels.

Tucker narrated the audiobook versions. Amber House was an odd place at any hour. And then she went off to the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, where, soon after arriving, she fell in love and eventually moved in with her young man. But, two years into their relationship, her boyfriend moved out, and six weeks after that, Tucker filed a civil suit claiming he sexually assaulted her when they first started dating.

Tucker tried to get her ex-boyfriend kicked out of USC. So the Student Judicial Affairs Committee conducted an investigation and ruled against her. Tucker called a news conference on campus. I believe that the weaknesses could be pinpointed and fixed. That led to an appearance on CNN. It's very interesting to note that a victim can come forward with a binder of evidence, but the school will choose to believe a completely unsubstantiated claim from a male student who denies it.

Well, in this case he did more than deny it. He filed a lawsuit of his own for libel, in which he pointed out that Tucker told the student Judicial Affairs Committee that she did not initially think she was sexually assaulted, and then, quote, It was after a conversation with her mother, Kelly S. Moore, when Tucker began to think she was sexually assaulted. Tucker's ex demanded $100,000 in damages. And then both lawsuits, the boyfriends and Tucker's, were dismissed.

In 2013, Tucker moved back to Oregon and developed her acting skills. And three years later, shot her uncle. Did he ever threaten to kill you? Yes. To hear this well-educated, well-spoken young woman tell it, and three years later, shot her uncle. Did he ever threaten to kill you? Yes. To hear this well-educated, well-spoken young woman tell it, this was a clear case of self-defense. After police left the interrogation room,

Tucker began sobbing, hyperventilating, seemed so overcome with emotion, she collapsed into a fetal position. It seemed over the top. Lead detective Gabe Birchfield was monitoring the interview remotely. It was hard to determine if it was actual emotion that was happening or was she just putting on a show. Was it grief that brought her to her knees? Or the growing realization she was in very serious trouble?

Questions like that were the reason when Birchfield came to take Tucker away the growing realization she was in very serious trouble. I want to get back on the floor. Questions like that were the reason when Birchfield came to take Tucker away in the midst of her emotional collapse. It wasn't to take her to the hospital. No. He came to take Tucker to jail, where she was charged with manslaughter. Still, Tony Young, one of the detectives who'd actually questioned Tucker, wasn't satisfied. Like somehow the curtain had come down before the final scene.

I had that nagging in my mind that this was a lot more. It had a lot of different tendrils that there was more going on here. Oh there was coming up was there yelling yes maybe screaming and cursing yes a new role in the theater but the real drama is off stage it's something that none of us that we're here will forget. When Dateline Continues. Tucker Reed wasn't in jail very long. Hours after she was booked for manslaughter, her family scraped together bail. And then something very strange happened.

Tucker, in a way, vanished. Replaced by an alter ego named Winner, who went on to star in that horror movie. It's time for some change, you know? But imagine this. It was not Tucker's only command performance while she was out on bail. Posing again as Wynne, she also landed the lead role in a community theater production of a play called Himself and Nora. She came into the auditions cold, so it wasn't like somebody that we had seen a million times.

The theater director, Susan Aversa-Orego, said Wynne nailed that audition. She has a very lovely singing voice, and she did a really solid audition. Love. Here is the New York premiere of Himself and Nora, a musical comedy that tells the story of the lifelong love affair between author James Joyce and his Irish working-class muse, Nora Barnacle. Without Nora Barnacle, there would be no James Joyce, in my opinion.

New York playwright Jonathan Brielle wrote and composed himself and Nora. Like any good musical, it is about love overcoming an obstacle. But here at the theater in Oregon, the obstacle may have been the star herself. Wynne kept trying to assert control, said the director, and she wasn't having it. The result was blow up after blow up. When she got upset, she said that she wanted to have her representative come and talk to us.

And so she brought this woman in who was her advocate. And during the course of the discussions, we were told, well, it's her aunt. Dealing with Wynne and her aunt was a constant source of turmoil, said the director. It was winning something at all costs. What it was they wanted to win here, I don't know. Still, the director was so impressed by Wynne's raw talent, she called the playwright. I understood that the woman playing Nora was very good. And I thought, OK, I want to go see what she could bring to it.

It was just a quick C1 performance and off you go. Yep, that was the plan. To be noticed by a New York playwright? A very big deal. So, it was alarming. When on the afternoon of the performance, the director got an urgent message from Wynn. She was in the hospital and she wasn't going to make it for the performance that night

because she was on IV painkillers. The playwright didn't get the news until his plane landed in Medford. What did you think when you heard that? Because you'd traveled across the country to see her. Disappointment was definitely high on my radar. Avera Sarrego arranged for the cast to do a simple table reading instead, without Wynne. But moments before the curtain rose, Wynne, along with her advocate, dramatically entered the theater. And carrying armloads of flowers for the playwright.

And we told her that she couldn't perform because she had told us that she was on, you know, IV meds. What was her response to that? She was very upset. It was more than you would expect somebody to be upset. That's about the time the playwright arrived at the theater. Well, I got there, and there was a bit of commotion. Susan came out and told me that Wynne was there

and that they were having a bit of a heated discussion that she wanted to go on, and Susan felt that that wasn't the right thing to do, even though I knew, felt very responsible for the fact that I had come out. Yeah. So if she was making that kind of decision, something was going on. Two years later, Aversa Orego was still clearly uncomfortable talking about that night. Was there yelling? Yes. Maybe screaming and cursing? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, it was awkward, to say the least. We have the playwright here, and there's... Right in front of the playwright this happened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She even threatened to call the police, she said, to get Wynne and her aunt to leave. It's something that none of us that were here will forget. And it affected all the other actors. It affected the technical crew. It affected the technical crew.

It affected the front of house crew. There was no one that was left unscathed with this whole thing. When you say with this whole thing, you're not just talking about that one incident. She made multiple accusations. She accused me of harassing her and making her life uncomfortable. And she accused different people of sexual harassment, not in a physical sense, but in a verbal sense. And yet, said the director, she could speak for the whole crew.

Not a word of it was true. So the easiest thing was after that debacle with the audience coming in and the playwright, we told her that we couldn't continue to have her perform in the show. Months would pass before Aversa Orego would learn that Wynne wasn't Wynne, but a woman named Tucker, who was out on bail for killing her uncle. A shocker for sure, followed by a bizarre twist you probably already guessed. The woman Wynne called her advocate, her aunt, was actually her mother, Kelly. And then we all sat there and went, whoa, that's weird. That's her mother. It's

not her aunt. It's not her advocate. it's not her representative, it's her mother. Boy, you may have dodged a bullet. Please don't say that. At that point it was a joke, but then it wasn't a joke, so, yeah. Coming up. Terrorized. Terrorized. We were terrorized. The spotlight turns to Tucker's mom. He was trying to come in and he was trying to hurt me.

You don't want to ever tell us what happened after that? No, I don't. I'm Tucker Reed! Tucker Reed! Tucker Reed! Tucker and Kelly had, for all appearances, a rather multi-layered mother-daughter relationship. Over the years, Kelly was known as Tucker's seamstress, her makeup artist, her aunt, her advocate, representative.

And after the shooting of Shane Moore, well, according to this police report, she was person of interest to Tucker's suspect one. The person of interest is someone that could potentially be a suspect at some point. Which is certainly how lead detective Gabe Birchfield saw Kelly Moore as he investigated the shooting. She's involved to a point where she's more than a witness, but a little bit less than a suspect. She didn't just witness what happened. She had some involvement in the case.

Okay, where'd you get the gun originally? Where was it when you got it? I found it. As Birchfield watched Kelly and Tucker's interviews, a little personal alarm went off inside. Her and Kelly's story were like a perfect match with each other. Uh-huh. So as if they had been talking about it beforehand. Yeah, which is very

probable considering it took Sheriff's Department like over 30 minutes to get to the house. I was absolutely sure he was going to kill my mother. Terrorized. Terrorized. Terrorized. We were terrorized.

So now, here was Kelly's telling of things, beginning with a flashback through recent family history. Kelly told the police she'd been afraid of her brother Shane and his threats for years as he tried to assert control over the family estate owned by their mother, Tucker's grandmother. Kelly said Tucker got swept up in it nine months earlier when Shane, during a heated argument, threw an oil can that hit her in the face. Knocked her down to the floor. It hit her so hard. Shane was charged with assault, and Tucker took out a no-contact order,

legally requiring Shane to keep his distance from her. But Kelly said that wasn't protection enough. He has, for the last nine months, been threatening us directly on the phone that he was going to kill us if Tucker didn't take, drop the charges. Tucker didn't drop the charges. He's going to kill us. On the day of the shooting, Kelly said, Shane flew into another rage when he discovered Kelly had called in a realtor to appraise the family ranch where Shane lived with the grandmother. My mother decided she wants to sell. But Shane, who'd been living there 16 years, didn't want the property sold out from under him. And Shane looked at me and he said, he said, don't you f*** up my deal, Kelly. Don't you f*** up my deal. Or you and Tucker.

And he made a gesture across his throat. The realtor, questioned later by phone, said she also heard Shane threaten Kelly. When I went towards the house, he said he was going to f*** up my truck, and he says, and I'm going to kill you and Tucker. He said that to Kelly? He said that to Kelly. And Kelly picked up the story from there. And I said to him, I'm not afraid of you, Shane.

I'm not afraid of you. I'm terrified of him, but that's what i said to him always face down a mad dog he's not okay whether you're afraid of me or not you and tucker and he walked away and i told my daughter to come out because i'm frightened i'm really frightened i'm screaming tucker where are you? Come, come. So then the realtor left, said Kelly. But soon after that, along came a notary, hired by Shane, to certify some family estate documents.

So everyone went into the grandmother's house to look over the paperwork. Everyone that is but Shane, who had that no-contact order keeping him away from Tucker. He waited outside. So I took that opportunity to look at the document. And Shane was outside the sliding glass doors looking in. And he started to come around to the front door. And I started for the front door.

And I was trying to lock the door when he opened the door. And he's telling me, what are you doing? And I'm trying to shut the door, and he's shoving it into me, shoving it into me. And I'm leaning forward trying to shut the door. Take your time. It's okay. And he was trying to come in, and he was trying to hurt me. And God only knows what else he was trying to come in and he was trying to hurt me. And God only knows what else he was going to do. Kelly brought her story to this emotional crescendo.

And then she closed the curtain. That's the end of my statement. You don't want to tell us what happened after that? No, I don't. Are you not wanting to give a statement because you're upset right now and it's going to get emotional for you? No. Is that what's going on? No.

So I've been asking... You're not in trouble. You understand that. I understand that I'm not in trouble. You're not in trouble. We're just trying to figure out what happened after he's pushing his way in the door. But that was that. Kelly declared that she would say no more, which put a whole new light on a curious piece of evidence

that had turned up that very morning while Shane was still very much alive. Coming up. I'm so glad he's dead. I am so, I can't tell you. I am glad this man is dead. I did not expect that, to be honest. Detectives turn up the heat. Was this a cold calculated, planned out thing? When Dateline continues. As detectives Young and Ford sat here with Tucker and her mom Kelly, they held something back at first. A big reveal, if you will.

Which was this. An hour or so before he was shot, a worried Shane called the sheriff's office. Here he is. My sister's over in the house. Her kid fired off a gun over there this morning. Now, why would Tucker have fired a gun so close to Shane, just hours before a gun was fired into Shane? Seemed like a question worth asking. They did. Was there a weapon that got fired today? My daughter has found a gun recently. I'm not sure when, and she wanted to see what it fired like. She asked my mother if she could shoot it out into the field,

and my mother told her she could. Okay, were you there when she shot the gun? Yeah, I was. She shot it once. What kind of gun is it? Some little revolver. A little gun? It was a snub-nosed.38, commonly referred to as a Saturday night special.

Anyway, here was the order of events. Tucker fired the gun. Shane, alarmed, seemed to take it as a warning that the next shot might be aimed at him. Then Kelly's realtor arrived to talk about selling the ranch over Shane's objections. And then an upset and frightened Shane called the sheriff to report he felt threatened. Which is why the detectives asked Kelly this next question. Was this a cold, calculated, planned out thing or was this for the... No, no, I'm giving you, I'm just, I'm telling you what people can assume.

Not us. This is just such a... Or was this self-defense? Oh God. You see what I'm saying? Kelly most assuredly did not. It's just so absolutely typical of my brother that he would call and do this smarmy thing. It's so typical.

He's going to terrorize us for nine months and then he's going to call and whimper to the police that he's afraid. And he's the one who's hurting us. Well, he obviously can't do that now he's deceased. I know. I'm so glad he's dead. I am so, I can't tell you. I don't grieve for my brother. I am glad this man is dead. I am so glad that he can't do this to us anymore. Kelly's furious outburst was another first for Detective Young. I did not expect that, to be honest, especially in the

hours immediately after such a horrible event took place. I kind of describe her tone as venom, just very direct and forward and not in the least bit upset that her brother's dead. And she's had been a practicing attorney. Yes. Which adds a layer of interest. Yes, and that kind of played into the interview, and I felt like she was being somewhat cagey. Cagey?

I'd be putting it mildly. Did he have a weapon? I have no idea. All I know is I can tell you that I was so scared I'd be putting Tucker shot him. Did the notary shoot him? I have no idea who shot him. Did you shoot him? I don't think so. I don't know. You don't think so, you don't know?

I can hardly remember. The trauma of that moment was so appalling and horrifying. I didn't know what Shane was going to do. I didn't know what Shane was going to do. It was horrifying. The detectives kept pushing. Who did what? And you can't tell us whether or not who shot the gun? You can't tell us that.

No, I can't. Or you won't. Be honest with us. I can't, and I wouldn't if I could. So if you knew who shot the gun, you wouldn't tell us? That's right. To be quite frank with you and straight with you is I'm wondering, I wonder why she's not telling us the rest of the story

wonder away I'm telling you what happened the man was busting into the house threatening me threatening us all men can't possibly understand how frightening a man is to a woman most of the time men are likeicable. Like, for example, Kelly seemed to say, these very detectives. We don't take sides on these cases, Kelly. Oh, God. We don't. I've never seen anything where I have been involved with police

where the police did not lie. I have never. Okay, well, I can't talk to you if you think I'm a liar because you're insulting my integrity as a detective. I'm telling you I don't trust police. Okay, well, I can't talk to you if you think I'm a liar because you're insulting my integrity as a detective. I'm telling you I don't trust police. Okay, well, I've not sat here and called you a liar, have I? I never lie.

I don't either. I never lie. Well, that was clear enough. No liars here. At a time like this, it can be helpful to talk to someone with no dog in the fight, as they say. Good thing such a person just happened to be waiting in the wings. Dramatic? Oh my. Coming up... It must have seemed very strange when you got up to the house. As soon as the door shut, it was strange.

A simmering family feud and a shell-shocked witness in the middle. I went, oh my God, that's a 38. The story Tucker and her mom Kelly told the police was astonishing, like the plot of some Hollywood thriller. It starred, of course, Tucker, who, in an epic struggle with her violent, drug-addicted Uncle Shane, literally saved her mother's life. This man is a meth addict. He's crazy. He was trying to come in and he was trying to hurt me.

Shane lunged for the gun that Tucker was holding. Shane's own mother, Lori Moore, told us on the phone it was Shane's fault that Tucker shot him. Even when I knew that he was dead, I was just relieved. That your own son was dead, it made you feel relieved? I felt relieved to know that he was dead and would not be able to threaten and frighten me anymore. Relieved to hear her son was dead? Yes.

So he couldn't attack and maybe kill them all. But even the dead had their stories. And Shane's corpse was telling a very different one than his mother and sister and niece. Was he armed when he was killed? He was not armed. He didn't have anything on him. Just flip-flops, jeans, and a t-shirt. Where was he when he was killed? He was not armed. He didn't have anything on him, just flip-flops, jeans, and a t-shirt.

Where was he when he was shot? Was he inside or outside? He was still outside the front door. And the location of the gunshot wound? It was probably like six inches below his head, right in the sternum area. It was a perfect circle, like right through the center of his chest. Wow. Almost like somebody might be aiming, but who knew, right? You don't have to aim that much when you're like two feet away.

For months after the shooting, Detective Birchfield tried to find out everything about Tucker, but... She didn't seem to have a lot of friends, so there wasn't a lot of information we could garner about her. Kelly, on the other hand... We just got a lot of friends, so there wasn't a lot of information we could garner about her. Kelly, on the other hand... We just got a lot of information from other witnesses about how good of a person Shane was and how bad of a person Kelly was. So it was almost diverting at times, because we kept getting all this information about her. And gradually, as Detective Birchfield asked his questions, he thought he found his way to the heart of this family tragedy.

Money. The million-plus tied up in this real estate. Which led to a whole other version of the story. Listen carefully. It may sound more like an episode of, say, Succession or Game of Thrones. Once upon a time, Shane had been an attorney in San Francisco, but drugs got the better of him. And in 2000, he moved on to the family ranch, where he tended the land and his dad, who had ALS. As my dad deteriorated, Shane took care of him.

Ryan and Rhonda Moore are Shane and Kelly's brother and sister-in-law. As he got worse, he was wheelchair bound and my brother would carry him from the chair to his bed or to the shower. There was plenty to do and he did it. Cheerfully, willingly, good guy, in other words. A good guy. I personally think he was the kindest, nicest person in our family after my dad. His sister Kelly, like his brother Shane, had given up a legal career, in her case to be a stay-at-home mom in Oregon, where she kept a close eye on her children. Her parents supplied an income and bought her an old Victorian house in town.

That's it, peering from behind a curtain of cottonwoods. She relied, too, on occasional help from Shane. Shane would fix their cars. He would go over to the Jacksonville house and make repairs. Helping, you know, with whatever Kelly needed. He was doing what needed to be done. Ryan had made his own way in life, wanted nothing to do with the family estate.

He was fine with his parents' plan that when they passed on, Kelly would keep the house, and she and Shane would split ownership of the ranch 50-50. But complications. Once my dad died, everything changed. Problem was, as Kelly admitted to the police, she needed money now. I don't have any money. I was looking to get food stamps. I'm that broke. Since she hadn't worked in years, her income, her only income, came from the ranch.

My mother is taking care of my family with her property wealth. Kelly's mother did that for her by taking out loans, mortgages. In other words, using the equity in the ranch as something like an ATM. And she gave that cash to Kelly to live on. But of course, every time she did that, she diminished the value of the eventual inheritance. Not just of Kelly's half, but of Shane's half, too. It was just money going out, constantly going out. So you were aware of declining value of that place?

Yeah. Shane must have been aware of it, too. Yeah. They argued. Kelly filed assault charges and took out that no-contact order against Shane. And then Kelly devised a plan to keep Shane in line. I was going to adulterate the will with additional language that said that if anything happened to my mother or my family, that he would be immediately disinherited.

Well, Shane heard about that and got his own idea. He wanted his mother to sign over the property now, to both him and Kelly 50-50, so that any money Kelly took out of equity would be from her half only, not his. That way she couldn't take everything for herself. The way to do that, sign over property, is to file what's known as a grant deed. And that is what touched off this whole bloody business. Had he explained on the phone, you know, that there was a feud going on between them, I might not have gone. This is Carla Treiber. On July 26, 2016, the day of the shooting, Shane hired Carla to notarize this Grant Deed.

But when she finally got to the remote ranch house, Shane was nowhere to be found. Carla knew nothing about the family drama, nothing about the realtor visit, the argument, the gunshot. It must have seemed very strange when you got up to the house. As soon as the door shut, it was strange. Carla didn't know about the restraining order

that kept Shane from entering, was surprised when she was met instead by three intense women. Tucker, her grandmother Lori, and Tucker's mom Kelly, who seemed upset. She kept yelling. She's like, what do you need? What do you need? What are you doing here? Tucker was standing silently in a dark corner of the kitchen. And I saw her out of the corner of my eye, and I said, oh, excuse me, hello, how are you? And she goes like this.

Puts her hand up, never said a word. The entire time from the time that door shut, everything was just off. Carla said she double-checked with Shane's mom to make sure she knew what a grant deed was. And she said yes, She understood all that. And I said, okay. And Kelly goes, I thought this was a will. And I'm like, I don't know anything about a will. And she goes, are you sure this isn't a will? And I was like, it's not a will. And she grabbed the paper out of my hand. She read it and tore it up in pieces. Did she go on talking and yelling

at that point? She was always yelling the whole time. She was very excited. Up until now, Carla had never laid eyes on the man who hired her, Shane. They'd communicated only by text. I looked up and here comes somebody outside of the window, like walking up from behind the house. And I said, oh, look, maybe that's him. And she said, yeah, that's my brother. Then she said, Tucker, who had been all but invisible, suddenly appeared. Tucker came up, and there was a towel on the table, and she had reached underneath the towel, and when she brought it back this way, in my head I went, oh my God, that's a.38.

Coming up. I heard the gunshot, and then I hear him yell, you shot me. I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to do here. A single shot of gunfire brings a hail of questions. I kept thinking, how in the heck did that bullet push him from the front door clear over to the ground? When Dateline Continues In this faraway mountain home, Notary Public Carla Treiber felt like she had just walked into a scene in a horror movie. The scene where everybody else knew the lines but her. Oh, and one of the actors had a gun,

a real one this time. And I don't really know what Tucker's doing because she's behind me. So... With a gun. With a gun, right. What happened next was so traumatic, said Carla, she had to be hospitalized and still suffers from PTSD. So what did she see? Tucker's version of what could have been self-defense or just an accident? Kelly's story of the terror from which Tucker saved her? Well, not quite. Here, for the first time on camera,

Carla will tell you her version of the story. And we can see her demeanor as a defense mechanism. She is still terrified, recalling the scene. Tucker, with a gun, her mother yelling. And this guy, meanwhile, is coming up toward the house. Yes, he wasn't coming in. He was just like coming up towards the patio. And so Kelly went to the door and said, hey, what's going on?

I thought we were signing a will. And he's like, what? Why would we sign a will? Carla could hear the conversation. But from where she was sitting, she couldn't see Shane. So then all of a sudden, Tucker said, mom, mom, look out. He's coming in. He's coming in. I remember like looking over my shoulder and I couldn't see him at all. So he wasn't coming toward the door as far as you could tell. I didn't really know what was going on. And then she went

over towards the door. She, Tucker with a gun. Carla didn't see what happened next, but... I heard the gunshot, and I was like, what just happened? And then I hear him yell, you shot me! And I was like, oh my God, oh my God, I don't know what to do here. So I was scared to death. I can only imagine. So after that, Tucker went to her room. And I remember thinking there was a phone on the table.

So I grabbed that phone, and I kept trying to dial 911, and I put it up to my ear. I'm like, this thing won't work. And Kelly comes around in front of me, and I said, oh, my God, you need to help me. Call 911. She goes, no. And the phone dropped on the floor. And I looked at her and said, you better go in the phone dropped on the floor. And I looked at her and said, you better go in the bedroom and get the gun from Tucker.

Because I didn't know if Tucker was going to come out and shoot us, if she was going to shoot herself. I didn't know what was really going on. But the intensity was totally ramped up this whole time. Oh, yeah. The amount of adrenaline in the air. For everyone, I think. I mean, I know I was going crazy. And Kelly comes back out with the gun down to her side.

And I'm trying to like hold it together. And I'm like, Kelly, just give me the gun and give it to me by the grips. And she goes, no. And I'm like, what? I go, Kelly, look it. I'm really shaking. I just need you to hand me the gun by the grips. I just want the gun. And she leaned down and caught in my face and said, I'm really shaking. I just need you to hand me the gun by the grips. I just want the gun.

And she leaned down and caught in my face and said, I said no. And I was like, okay, I don't know what to do. So I was holding that phone in the kitchen and I told you I was trying to dial 911. It didn't work. It didn't work. And it starts ringing and I just pushed the button. And I said, hello? Hello, who's this? This is Jackson County 911 emergency. Yes, I need somebody out here right away, and I need an ambulance. Tell me what the emergency is. I didn't see anything. All I can tell you is a gun went off. Okay, listen to me. They're on their way. Are you in danger? Yes. And she kept saying to me, get the phone to someone near the victim. And that gave me the idea of how I was getting out of there. So I grabbed

all my stuff and I had the phone in my hand and I said, here, grandma, talk to 911. I have to go. When she stepped outside, Carla saw Shane lying halfway off the porch. And I kept thinking, how in the heck did that bullet push him from the front door clear over to the ground? I mean, it was like four feet, five feet, something like that. It seemed like, you know, away from the door. He was nowhere near the front door when he was shot. No. Put me in your shoes or in your brain when you're walking from the house to your car 100 feet away. She still had the gun. She's got the gun. And I remember looking at her and I thought, whatever, if you're going to shoot me, do it. I stepped over his body, which was the hardest thing to do. But there wasn't any

other place to go. So I had to step over his body and go to my car. And I remember I thought, just don't turn around. Don't turn around. Just get in your car and leave. And then I got to my car. And I remember I thought, just don't turn around, don't turn around, just get in your car and leave. And then I got in my car. I didn't know what to do. I feel like I was probably in shock. So a very different story than what Tucker and her mother told the police. So my mom was against the door and trying to push the door and i could see shane and he was trying to get in i'm telling you that that moments before my brother died he was assaulting me with the door discrepancies like that were what convinced the da to charge tucker with manslaughter in the first place but it might not be easy to persuade a jury tucker could be very persuasive. Ask anybody who'd seen her on camera. Oh, speaking of cameras...

Coming up... He's coming into the house. Pick up the gun. A cell phone captures stunning video of the killing. You told her... Get out of here! And it reveals a very different picture of this crime. This is Shane's side of the story. My jaw hit the floor. Tucker Reed was charged with manslaughter, but bailed out in less than a day. And as her case slowly made its way to war trial, she made that remarkable decision

to audition for a movie about a killer. This is our backup. If anything bad happens, we shoot. But that video, provocative as it was, didn't really figure in her case, no. But another one certainly, certainly did. A video recorded in there as it happened. Its existence unknown until just weeks before Tucker was to go on trial. Her lawyers sprang their surprise on the prosecutor.

They said, we have some evidence that's going to prove this was self-defense. So we said, okay, send it to us. But when Detective Birchfield saw the video, it was, shall we say, a different kind of proof altogether. We finally got what we need. This is Shane's side of the story. We got basically Shane's entire statement right here. Birchfield called Detective Tony Young. And he said, you're not going to believe this. You've got to come to the sheriff's department. When he pushes a button on his computer, my jaw hit the floor.

Understandably so. Shane's version, as Detective Birchfield put it, had been captured on video by, of all people, Tucker herself. She had recorded the entire deadly incident on her cell phone. There's Kelly and the grandmother and the notary and Shane's friend Carlton Oleson looking for the grandmother's driver's license. Here's my USAA card. Then Tucker swings her phone around to show Shane pacing outside the house. Shane needs to stay away from the property. Tucker puts the phone down,

but picks it up again 33 seconds later. Yes, this man, this man, he threatened this woman's life, my mother, unless she signed that paper. Unless my mother signed it. This is up to you whether you sign it. She's not signing a grantee. She's not signing a grantee.

I was told it was an inheritance. She was told it was an inheritance, a will. An addendum to her will. That's the notary, Carla Treiber, to the left of an inheritance, a will. An addendum to her will. That's the notary, Carla Treiber, to the left of your screen. A will. This is not. This is a grant deed.

You're not signing a grant deed, mother. No, I am not signing a grant deed. Do you understand what a grant deed is? Suddenly, Tucker cries out. He's coming into the house. F***, damn it. Pick up the gun. But the video does not show Shane actually inside the house. Freeze the video and you can see Kelly's silhouette at the door, but Shane is not visible.

And here, just for a moment, you can see the gun in Tucker's hand. Then, without warning, you hear it. She fires the gun. She said she shot me. Yeah, if you told her. Get out of here. Oh, God. Get out of here.

Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Oh, God. She shot him. Oh, God. Oh, God. She shot him! Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, Tucker.

When detectives saw the video, they knew right away. This was a very different set of circumstances than we were told during the initial interview with Tucker. It proved the exact opposite of what they were claiming. It proved no self-defense and exactly what happened at the front door. You'll remember during his investigation, Detective Young discovered that just before Shane was killed,

he called the sheriff's office, concerned for his safety after Tucker fired a gun nearby. My sister's over in the house. Her kid fired off a gun over there this morning. So did that earlier gunshot indicate some sort of pre-planning? When the detective asked Kelly about the gunshot, she had a ready answer.

She asked my mother if she could shoot it out into the field, and my mother told her she could. But when Young put that same question to Tucker she seemed caught off guard your uncle called reporting that you fired a gun on the property today well at that prior to that time well that's bizarre what was going on in your mind to make you want to test fire that gun today, to make sure it worked? I don't know. Tucker said after she fired the gun, her mom put it right on the kitchen table, but hid it under a napkin.

She's like, let's put it in a central place. Okay. Just, you know, so it's there. What did it say to you that that gun had been placed in a position under a towel where it could be pulled out and used on a moment's notice? It's almost like they were looking for something to happen where they could concoct this story to justify its use. So, this question, about something Shane's friend Carlton said he overheard

as he was giving Shane CPR, a conversation between Tucker and her mom. Carlton said that he heard you say something like, you told me to do it. Do you remember saying something to the effect of... You told me I could do it. You told me... Watch the... You told me to do it or you told me I could do it or something?

Be there, be present while the will addendum stuff was happening. Sadly, we couldn't ask Carlton about this. He died a month after the shooting. Drug overdose. But Detective Birchfield also interviewed Shane's girlfriend, who was also close by, and here's what she said she heard. Tucker was talking to Kelly, her mother, and she said,

You told me to do it. You told me I could do it. Wasn't all she heard. Kelly was saying something too, she said. Very loud. Kelly stood there and yelled at Shane, Haven't you died yet? You piece of s***. Why aren't you dead yet? Tucker heard it too. I remember her screaming, die, die, while he was bleeding out. And I was sobbing and sobbing.

Tucker's grandmother, though, said she heard no such thing. No. No, she didn't say that. You sure? I am absolutely positive. I just can't imagine that she would say that. But, listen carefully. Here's Kelly's voice in the background of the 911 call as Shane was receiving CPR from his friend Carlton.

Then tilt the head back. Die! Which prompted one of the detectives to ask this. Do you think your mom had any involvement in this? You mean... Like, by getting it all jacked up, by yelling at you, saying to shoot him, do you hear your mom saying... I don't think my mom told me to shoot him. I don't think my mom told me to shoot him. I don't recall that.

So, for all their suspicion, the detectives did not have evidence to charge Kelly. But Tucker? Now, with the video of the shooting, they believe they finally had that missing piece they'd been searching for for two years. Obviously, it's murder now. No question in your mind this was murder? No question. A grand jury your mind this was murder? No question. A grand jury agreed. Tucker was arrested again, this time for murder, but now held without bail.

So this time around, as she awaited trial, there would be no plays, no movie parts. Tucker's next performance would be for a judge. Coming up. He's not dead? No, he's not dead. Never! Tucker's own words revealed in court, and her own mother on the stand. I wanted Tucker to come outside with the gun. Would she help her daughter's case or hurt it?

When Dateline continues. No movie roles this time. Tucker Reed was in custody, charged with murdering her Uncle Shane. In January 2019, Tucker asked for a hearing to see if the judge would grant bail, a chance to get out of jail while she awaited trial. The hearing played out like a trial, complete with evidence and witnesses. Tucker's own video of the shooting was played, of course After the shooting, Tucker put her phone down

But it kept recording audio for nine more minutes So now the court could hear Tucker's reaction to the news Shane was still breathing breathing. The court also heard why Tucker hoped Shane's wound was fatal. Why did you do this? I just got out of sight. I just got out of sight. Was Tucker truly afraid of Shane? Or was Shane the one who was afraid of Tucker and her mother, Kelly? It certainly sounded like it when he called the sheriff's office just hours before his death. Just about to, sir, shall we? Hi, I was hoping I could get a sheriff out here.

I expected a no republic to be here at 2 o'clock to 2.30, and I don't want any trouble with my sister. So when her kid fired off a gun over there this morning, I'm afraid my sister's going to try to stop the no republic, and that's what I'm afraid of, and I don't want any trouble. Tucker's mom testified about what happened after the gun was fired, when she and Shane had that argument in front of the realtor. He was mostly saying,

this is my property, you better not f*** up my deal with Mother, Kel. You better not f*** up my deal with Mother. I was afraid. I was more afraid than I've ever been. And I wanted Tucker to come outside with the gun. I wanted to have the gun. I was that afraid. As a dramatist might have noticed about all this, Kelly had just given a real-life example of the theatrical principle known as Chekhov's gun,

which goes something like this. Whenever a gun is revealed in the first act, it must be fired by the third. Now, Tucker's own mother had put the gun in Tucker's hand in the opening scene, which was not quite how she told the story right after the shooting. And I told my daughter to come out,

because I'm frightened. I'm really frightened. I'm screaming, Tucker, where are you? Come! Not a word about telling Tucker to bring a gun then. But now, here she was, on the stand, telling a more complete story. And Tucker came out, and she gave me the gun,

and then she took it back from me, because she could see that I was panicked and she also knows that I'm half blind. Next, the prosecutor asked Kelly about the document at the center of the family dispute, the grant deed Shane wanted notarized, the one Kelly tore up in a fit of anger just before Tucker fired the gun. And then you said you didn't get a chance to really look at the document that you tore up. Do you recognize this? I'm sorry, New States Exhibit 20. I don't. I don't recognize it. But it's torn up the way I described. Okay. And that document gave, divided the property evenly between you and your brother is what that document purports to do.

A full 15 seconds passed before Kelly answered. It seems to, I don't know what it means off the top of my head without right of survivorship. I don't know what that means. We found Kelly's hesitation interesting, especially in light of what her mother told us in no uncertain terms. Shane is trying to steal my farm that the grant deed would have made him owner of the farm. Where did you hear that? Well, my daughter is a lawyer and she explained that to me.

Okay, so that was Kelly's explanation of what that grant deed would accomplish, that it would take the property away from you and give it to Shane? Yes. Now compare what Kelly told her mom to what she told the police about the very same document hours after the shooting. And I looked at it, and it's a grand deed, giving away the property to him and me. To him and me. And I said, oh no.

Kelly even said back then that Shane told her she was still getting her share of the estate, said that just seconds before Tucker killed him. When he opened the door, and he's telling me, what are you doing? Half of it's going to you, half of it's going to you, he said to me. So it appeared Kelly knew Shane's plan was to split the ranch 50-50,

yet told her mom something else entirely. The sort of thing families sometimes fight about in civil court. But here, it was a crime story. Tucker was center stage. And now it was time for the judge to rule. Bail or no bail? Coming up. It was all part of the show. Ms. Reed, if you don't behave, I'm going to just have to remove you from the courtroom. What would Tucker's fate be? The dramatic tension was written on Tucker's face.

The judge could resolve it here by granting bail or by sending Tucker back to jail for at least another year before trial. The courtroom waited. Then. I do think the state has established enough evidence that gets them to the standard necessary to not grant bail. No bail, no release. As the judge went on to explain her ruling, Tucker began to sob and hyperventilate.

Ms. Reed, if you don't behave, I'm going to just have to remove you from the courtroom. Please, please, I can't. I'm just going to get really pissed off. I'm going to throw up. Oh my God. Oh my God. After she was escorted from court, Tucker's screams could still be heard down the hallway. And if you want to put something in there about returning the security to those who posted bail for her, that would be fine, should I be? Matthew Spickard, the filmmaker, was in court that day.

I was there to be supportive because I, at first, there was no doubt in my mind from the story that we got that I could support someone defending themselves and their mother and their family. Because how terrifying of a situation it could be. And then to not, to see contradicting evidence, it just, I was taken aback. What was it like to hear your star actress screaming in the hallway as the hearing went on? And you can't help but to think, is that just another act as well, you know?

It wasn't going her way, so let's try to make it another act. Let's try to shift it. Which is just how Detective Birchfield saw it, too. It was all part of the show. Calculated, in your view. Yes, it's planned. She knows when to do it. She knows when to turn it on, turn it off. Detective Tony Young, whose job it was to monitor Tucker's prison call, said Tucker was not at all happy about her mother's testimony on the stand. I learned a lot from listening to those. It was pretty obvious to me that Tucker was not the weak, wilting flower in the whole thing,

and in the dynamic between she and Kelly certainly is a stronger personality, no doubt about it. Tucker is. Tucker is. Tucker is definitely a lot stronger than she was portraying in court. Now the only possible way for Tucker to get out of jail was to face a jury, but there was one delay after another. All the while, Tucker's dad was still very much in her corner. Without taking anything away from my other two children, Tucker was my firstborn.

And she's always been a brave, curious, loving person to me. Ryan and Rhonda Moore wanted justice for Shane, Ryan's brother. He was a good guy. Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. He was a good guy. He had friends who loved him.

He had nephews who loved him. They worried, though, how would a jury react to Shane? They loved him, but they also knew he was a cranky, reclusive drug user who might be portrayed at Tucker's murder trial as someone less than. My brother is not the most sympathetic victim. He doesn't have a history that's going to play well. Tucker, on the other hand. Action. Stop. Well, we know she played very well. Cut. And so we all waited. And then COVID. The Jackson County courts shut down.

Everything was in limbo. And somewhere in that uncertainty, the DA made a decision. Tucker was allowed to plead guilty, not to murder, but to second-degree manslaughter. Why do you think they let her plead out to manslaughter? I'm just going to assume that the district attorney just wanted to get it done and out of the way. But the DA told us something else. Ultimately, she had, quote, no way of predicting whether a jury would believe

Tucker was play-acting or truly afraid. To me, I did not, I wasn't happy with the result. It's all frustrating. Manslaughter, too, is not justification for what you did. Yet, Birchfield understood why the DA let Tucker plead out. I don't think the jurors are going to side with the big policemen that are trying to pin all this on some sweet little actress. Tucker's mom, Kelly, once a person of interest, was never charged with anything,

and now stands to inherit everything. She declined our request for an interview, but the several times we talked with her off camera, she was always quite civil, polite. So we found it surprising then that there were people who didn't want to talk about Kelly. People who said they were afraid of her. Though her ex-husband said with a nervous laugh, No, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm afraid of her. Kelly's own brother had an identical reaction. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Brian said he hasn't seen Kelly since 2008 after a big family fight.

Honestly, one of the reasons I don't want to go back there is I didn't want to put myself in the same state that she was in. And Tucker? After she pleaded guilty to manslaughter too, Tucker was sentenced to six years, three months in prison, the minimum under Oregon law. Factoring in for time served, she could be released as soon as 2024, though Kelly tells us Tucker's plea was coerced. Tucker plans to file a civil action in hopes of having her plea retracted. The DA, however, said the plea deal was hashed out before a judge. There was no coercion. Whatever the case, what will Tucker do

when she gets out? She'll be young, 30-something, much of her life still before her. Will she reinvent herself again? Why not? You're right, because even Tucker's not her first name. I don't know if you know that. It's Aisling. It's A-I-S-L-I-N-G. Though theater director Susan Aversa-Orego thinks Tucker, Aisling, Wynne, should consider giving up drama for her own good. She had so many different names, she could have been any one of them,

but none of them created a complete person, if that makes sense. And the movie, From the Dark, the one in which Tucker starred, there's a scene when all the terror comes to its violent head. A film about a killer starring a killer. Who would ever believe it? That's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again Thursday at 10, 9 central. And of course, I'll see you each weeknight for NBC Nightly News. I'm Lester Holt for all of us at NBC News. Good night.