Dateline NBC - Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

In Massachusetts, tension on the witness stand as Karen Read's defense team makes its case for a second time. Dateline correspondent Josh Mankiewicz shares updates on the case of Michigan grandmother Dee Ann Warner ahead of her husband's murder trial. And a courtroom sketch artist covering the Sean Combs trial on capturing what cameras can't. Find out more about the cases covered each week here:www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com

Good morning. How you doing? Good. You're listening in to Dateline's morning meeting. He just filed the charges end of day yesterday. Our producers are swapping tips about breaking crime news. That would be an amazing twist. Yeah. He was offering him $4,000 for this, but he only gives him 70 in the end.

I don't know what her story is gonna be. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning, it's June 5th and here's what's on our docket. In Michigan farm country, the body of Dee Warner, a beloved grandmother and businesswoman was found sealed in a metal tank last year. Now her husband is in court for her murder. Josh Mankiewicz has the latest.

The case is proceeding and it's gonna go to trial, but there've been a few things that have happened since then. In Dateline Roundup, a verdict in the trial of the first of three men charged in connection to the murder of a Kentucky mother. And a dramatic scene during jury selection at Lori Vallow- Daybell's latest trial.

I did not plan on getting sick. I am incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself. Plus, when cameras aren't allowed in the courtroom, sketch artists fill in the blanks. We'll talk to the sketch artist at the trial of Sean Combs about what the cameras are missing. Puffy Combs' mom is sitting behind me. And she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. But before all that, we're heading to Detta, Massachusetts, and a new chapter in the retrial of Karen Reed.

Over a month into her retrial, Karen Reed's defense is finally putting on its case. That comes after months of legal back and forth about what witnesses could be called speculation about the defense's strategy and a gag order that means only the defendant herself can talk to the media. Here is Karen Reed talking to our affiliate, NBC 10 Boston. Karen, what can we expect from the defense?

Will you testify? TBD, how are you feeling after today? I feel very good, thank you. Karen Reed is charged with hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O testify? TBD, how are you feeling after today? I feel very good. Thank you. Karen Reed is charged with hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her car after a night of heavy drinking in January 2022. She has pleaded not guilty. Her legal team has its own theory that Reed was framed by law enforcement officers to protect two of their own, who they say beat up O'Keefe at

a house party that night. So far, the defense has brought in new witnesses, revisited controversial testimony, and word around the courtroom is they still have some surprises in store. Here to bring us the latest is Dateline producer Sue Simpson, who is once again back in the courtroom. Literally, she got a seat. Sue, welcome back. Hi, Andrea.

Hi, Sue. So now a big question hanging over this trial has been whether the defense would call former Massachusetts state trooper Michael Proctor to the stand. He was fired in part for his handling of the investigation. So far the defense has not called him, but Proctor has, you know,

remains a big focus of the case, Sue Proctor has, you know, remains a big focus of the case, Sue. He does. Totally right, Andrea. And we saw them get at that with a new witness they called. His name is Jonathan Diamandis, and he's a childhood friend of Michael Proctor's. We've been friends since middle school, approximately 30 years. How often have you texted him over the years?

Frequently. And I want to direct your attention to one particular group chat that had nine people on it. Do you know the one I'm referring to? I do. Diamandus was on one of those now infamous text chains where Michael Proctor texted vulgarities about Karen Reed. I'm sure you remember them, Andrea. And the reason the defense called him is so they could get into those text messages without calling Proctor himself. Having reviewed that text chain, is that a true and accurate document?

Yes. Now, it was interesting. The defense did not have Diamandus read the text messages, but on cross, the prosecutor asked him if he would. And you know what? Diamandis declined, saying he felt uncomfortable with the language. So the prosecutor read them. Mr. Proctor says, she's a whack job, and then uses the C word to describe. Is that accurate?

That's accurate. He then says, yeah, she's a babe. Weird Fall River accent, though. No ass. Are those the words that he wrote? Those are the words. And then one person in the group says, no ass bitch. Yes, that's accurate.

Mr. Proctor, there's a response. Laughed at, quote, no ass bitch. Yes. Wow, this is so interesting. What was it like in court as these text messages were There's a response, laughed at, quote, no ass bitch. Yes. Wow, this is so interesting. What was it like in court as these text messages were read by the prosecution? Well, a couple of the jurors made faces.

But I've got to say, Andrea, that things were about to get a lot more intense in the tiny courtroom that we're in with the next witness. Yeah, let's talk about her. The defense called a woman who had worked as a Canton police officer when John O'Keefe died. What did they ask her about? This was Officer Kelly Dever.

And the morning that John O'Keefe's body was discovered, Kelly Dever was working an overnight shift and she was put on the dispatch desk. And the defense wanted her to talk about what she said she saw, but almost immediately the interaction between Devere and Alan Jackson, who was leading the questioning for the defense, became combative. Ms. Devere, do you want to be here today? I am put on the stand in a murder trial. I don't know why I'm here. I have no connection to this case. You have no idea why you're here?

You've never talked to me. Nobody on the fence seems to talk to me since prior to the first trial. So I don't have any idea why I'm here. So Jackson then started asking Dever questions about what she'd seen in the Sallyport garage of the Canton Police Department that morning. That's where Karen's SUV was being held. And the reason that Jackson was asking about this is because Debra had been interviewed about what she saw by two other law enforcement agencies in relation to this case. Ultimately Debra said she told law enforcement officials that she saw the chief of the Canton Police Department and Brian Higgins, an ATF agent, go into the Sallieport

garage where Karen's SUV was and stay for a while. Did you tell these law enforcement officers that you in fact saw Brian Higgins and Chief Berkowitz go into the Sallieport together and alone with the SUV for a wildly long time? That was my recollection at the time. So you did say that? At the time that is what I recollected. So the reason this is important is that the defense has claimed the police tampered with

the tail light on Karen's SUV and planted pieces of it at the crime scene. And they also say that Brian Higgins, who was at the House party that night, had been jealous of John and Karen's relationship. And so they say he had motive to beat John up. So what Deaver originally told law enforcement could bolster their theory. But Sue, it sounds like she's saying she remembers something different now. So she's saying she has a false memory, that she couldn't have seen what she thought she saw when the previous officers talked to her because the timeline didn't work out. The defense released a timeline right prior to the first trial that the vehicle on that

day did not arrive in the Sallieport until about an hour and a half after I left, meaning it is not possible that I saw that. The back and forth between this witness and Ellen Jackson got very tense. You feel like you're being unbiased in your testimony here today in front of these jurors? I'm telling the truth. You think you're being fair to both sides?

All I have to do is tell the truth. If it's not perceived to be fair, that's someone else's opinion. It's rare, you know, Andrea, to see such a hostile witness take the stand. So jurors were riveted, but how they're going to process that testimony is anyone's guess. The defense also called a witness, we have heard from before, an emergency room doctor and pathologist who spoke about John O'Keefe's injuries. This witness is a woman called Dr. Marie Russell.

So she testified that she's dealt with at least 500 dog bite injuries over the course of her very long career, as well as treating many people who had injuries from being hit by cars. And she walked the jury through how she developed her opinion that John O'Keefe's injuries on his arm were caused by dog bites and that they would have had to have happened before John O'Keefe died. There is ever so slight vital reaction or inflammation around the edges of the wounds. And so that determines that that supports the fact that they were inflicted during life. Right out of the gate, no surprise, the prosecution came out hard against Dr. Russell. Brannon accused Russell of reaching out to the attorneys and wanting to be involved in

this case, and also of exaggerating her expertise on dog bites. Other than this case, there was never ever a time in your career where you were presented with a photo and asked to give an opinion whether the mechanism of injury was a dog bite. Other than this case. That's correct. You do not have experience over your long accomplished career in the effort of pattern recognition analysis of dog bite wounds. Isn't that fair to say?

Okay. You know, watching in the court on the second day of cross-examination of Dr. Russell, it began to feel a bit like a slam dunk for the prosecutor until Russell came back with two points. First of all, she spoke very confidently about how a broken tail light could never in and of itself cause the kind of arm injuries that John O'Keefe had. There would have to be multiple projections from the vehicle that were lined up in certain pattern to give those parallel marks all in the same direction.

So that's why a broken taillight could not have done that. And she also spoke about how people often blame themselves for accidents, sometimes for years afterwards, calling it acute grief reaction. So basically she offered an explanation of why Karen might have been asking if she hit John with her car that morning. Well, it has been a packed set of days so far. Sue, thank you for coming back and telling us all about this and we'll see you next week, I'm sure.

Thank you, Andrea. Talk soon. Coming up, Josh Mankiewicz will be here to talk about a case he's been covering for years. The murder of Michigan grandmother, Deanne Warner. For our next story, we're heading to Lenawee County Courthouse in Michigan for the latest on a case Josh Mankiewicz and the Dateline Missing in America team have been following for years. The murder of 52-year-old grandmother and entrepreneur Deanne Warner. One Sunday in late April 2021, Dee's daughter took her kids over to Dee's farm for breakfast

like she did every week. Only Dee was not there. She'd vanished. What followed was a family's desperate search for answers, which Josh Mankiewicz reported on in season one of Dateline's Missing in America podcast. And what's missing in Dee's story isn't just a beloved mother. For her family, what's also missing are answers and perhaps justice. Two years later, Josh had an update. On Tuesday, November 21st

2023, Dale Warner, Dee Ann's husband, was arrested and charged with murder and tampering with evidence in connection with her disappearance. Dee's body still hadn't been found until nine months later, investigators removed a large metal tank from a barn on Dale's farm, X-rayed it, and discovered a body stuffed inside. It was Dee. The developments didn't stop there.

A lot has happened in just the past few weeks, including the filing of a new multi-million dollar civil suit and some key decisions in the courtroom as lawyers gear up for trial. Here to bring us up to speed is my friend and colleague, Josh Mankiewicz. Hey, Josh. Hi.

Josh, this is the first time you and I have talked about this case since Dee's body was found last fall. What have you learned since then? The case is proceeding and it's gonna go to trial. You know, there is some evidence of Dale being in the barn where the tank was around the time she disappeared. He's pleaded not guilty. But there have been a few things that have happened since then. Her kids have filed a lawsuit. You know,

Dee was a businesswoman and owned a trucking company and a lot of property. So I mean, she had some significant assets and her kids have now filed a $100 million lawsuit against Dale. Dee's adult children from a previous marriage filed the suit in part because they want to stop Dale from using money from Dee's estate for his defense. Yeah, look, I don't know how much money is in Dee's estate, but it's significant. What her kids want to do, and I haven't spoken with them, but what I think what they're doing is trying to make sure that if money was the motive, if getting out of that marriage and getting all of her money was Dale's motive, if he is convicted, or if he's acquitted,

they want to make sure that he does not get that money. If you listen to the attorney for this wrongful death lawsuit, Todd Flood, he is suggesting that Dale might not be the only one named in this lawsuit, that there are other people at play here possibly. They're hinting at other people, but we don't really know who that is at this point. There is one person whose name has come up, and that is Dale's son, Jaron, Dee's stepson. A prosecutor actually charged him in connection to the case, but then they ended up dropping those charges.

Josh, what happened with that? Well, he was charged with being an accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence. So, you know, I think the assumption at the time was he wasn't there when it happened, but, you know, I think the assumption at the time was he wasn't there when it happened, but, you know, his dad said, can you help me out? Whatever prosecutors thought at one time, they later did not think that they had any kind of provable case against Jaron. They dropped the charges without prejudice back in May. And what that means is, of course,

they can refile if they want. Maybe there's going to be some pressure on him to talk, but there is no way to know. And whether Jaren is one of those people that the attorney is hinting will also be added to the lawsuit, we don't know that either. Yeah, and we should say that Jaren's attorney said that he should never have been charged, and he denies being involved.

On top of all that, Dale appeared remotely in court last week for a motions hearing and his defense team made some oral arguments. One was about a change of venue request. Yeah. I think they're making the argument pretty early that social media buzz and news media coverage is making it impossible for Daley at a fair trial in Lenniwe County. And, you know, I mean, D was a well-known person there.

Something that was really interesting, Josh, you know, this is trials of the future, right? 2025, apparently someone from Lenniwe County posted on a Justice for D Facebook page, you know, giving tips on how to be a stealth juror. Can you explain that for us? There was some stuff on on on Facebook about how to be a stealth juror, which essentially means you know, go back over your own social media.

And you know, that post you wrote where it says, you know, Dale Warner should burn in hell, delete that and delete anything else that you wrote that makes it clear that you have an agenda. I must say this is the first time I've seen that advice given somewhere. Yeah, me too. This is the first I'm hearing of this. Josh, how did the judge react to all the things we just talked about that were brought up by the defense? Well, I mean, you know, he essentially said that all the media buzz was just too early to be a problem, but denied it without prejudice, meaning they can resubmit it.

Fair enough. And Josh, the defense also wanted to stop a prosecution witness from testifying? The defense wanted to stop a particular witness from testifying at the trial on the grounds that that witness had given false statements to the media about the case. And the judge denied the defense motion on that too. And here's the thing, lying in court is a crime. Lying to reporters is not. Should be, but it's not. Soterios Johnson Always so much going on before a trial actually starts. That's what I think people don't realize. Josh, so when can we expect A.L. to go to trial? I mean, it's set for January of next year.

That doesn't mean it won't slip. And that is a lovely time of year in Lenawee County. Josh, you're working on another season of Missing in America, your podcast, which just, I have to say, won a Webby. Congratulations. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. A brand new season of Missing in America, season four, six brand new Missing Persons Cases debuts June 10th. And it's six episodes which will be released on a weekly basis. And they are six very good stories.

Well, you're doing really good work. And we will have you back to talk more about that. Josh, thank you so much for joining us and bringing us this update on D Warner. We appreciate it. Thanks, Andrea. Up next, we've got some big updates in Dateline Roundup. Angry emails and the murder trial of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. The dramatic moment in court that led to a delay in Lori Vallow-Daybell's latest trial, and justice for Crystal Rogers' family. Plus, we're joined by a courtroom

sketch artist. Welcome back. For this week's Roundup, we're joined by Dateline producer Rachel White. Hey, Rachel. Hey, Andrea. So Rachel, for our first story, we are headed back to a Kentucky courtroom for an update on the trial of Steve Lawson, one of three men charged in connection to the murder of 35-year-old Crystal Rogers. Rachel, we talked about this case last week. I know you've been in the courtroom. Just give our listeners a quick refresher on this one. Sure. So back in 2015, Crystal Rogers, the mom of five, was reported missing by her family.

Three months went by, and even though her body still to this day has never been found, the local sheriff announced that Crystal was likely dead and that her boyfriend at the time, a man by the name of Brooks Hauck, was a suspect in her disappearance. No arrests were made until 2023, eight years later. Her boyfriend, who you mentioned, and two other men, a father and son by the names of Steve and Joseph Lawson, they were all charged in connection with her murder. So Steve's trial was up first. What charges was he looking at? So Steve Lawson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence. And if you remember, just days after Crystal's disappearance,

her car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway. Prosecutors allege that Steve's son, Joseph Lawson, was responsible for driving her car to the parkway and that Steve picked him up. Steve pleaded not guilty and took the stand in his defense last week, which is something we don't always see with defendants. What did he have to say? He admitted to the tampering with physical evidence charge. He said that he did move Crystal's car at the request of her boyfriend, Brooks Hauck. But he said he had nothing to do with her disappearance or her murder and that he didn't

know anything about it. For a case that went almost a decade without an arrest, this trial moved pretty quickly, just under a week. And the jury reached a verdict in about two hours. What was the verdict? Yeah, it went really fast. Steve Lawson was found guilty on both charges. Crystal was really close to her mom.

And this has just been so hard on her family. What was their reaction in the courtroom for any family members who were present? So just like you've said, I mean, they've been really pursuing justice for Crystal for 10 years at this point. So I think they felt that this was a long time coming. And it was an emotional, you know, moment. Crystal's daughter spoke about the fact that her mom was going to miss her upcoming wedding. She's getting married this summer and, you know, Crystal won't be there to see that happen. So it's very sad. There's still so much we don't know about this case, Rachel, and I'm sure we'll find

out a lot more when the trial of the two other men begins. Yeah. So Joey Lawson and Brooks Halk are being tried together and that's scheduled to start at the end of June on Tuesday, June 24th. So it's coming up. Okay. We'll look for updates on that. Up next, another update on the trial of former Major League baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He is accused of murdering his father-in-law, Gary Spore,

and the attempted murder of his mother-in-law, Wendy Wood, back in 2021 at their home in Lake Tahoe, California. Serafini has pleaded not guilty. What's happening there? So the prosecution is still laying out their case. This week was focused on digital evidence, specifically texts and emails sent between Serafini, his wife Erin, and his in-laws in the run-up to the shootings. An investigator read some of the messages to the jury and the big takeaway was that there appeared to be a lot of conflict between the couple and Aaron's parents Mainly over money. So the language in the in these text messages is quite heated

Yes, so Gary Spore and Wendy call Serafini quote belligerent and vicious and call him out for being violent And say he has a temper problem the investigator Rachel also testified about Serafini's phone activity the day of the homicide or lack thereof, we should say. Yes, the investigator looked at the messages Sarafini sent from his phone in the month before and the month after his in-laws were attacked. And the only day his phone had zero outgoing messages was the day of the homicide. Interesting. Moving on to Arizona, where court proceedings for Lori Valo Daybell's third trial have been delayed following some pretty dramatic

scenes in court. She's on trial for charges of conspiring to murder her niece's former husband, Brandon Boudreau. Rachel, what's happening there? Lori Valo Daybell's trial was set to begin jury selection last Friday. But Laurie told the judge she was unwell. And so the judge had the 60 potential jurors return on Monday morning. But on Monday, it appeared Laurie's illness had only gotten worse. And she arrived to court in a wheelchair and reported that she was too sick to proceed

with the jury selection. I did not plan on getting sick. And I'll try to get sick. This has anything to do with anything other than the fact that I'm incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself. Things only got stranger, Rachel, when the judge told Lori he'd checked to see

how she was feeling before making her come back to court, and she had quite the reply, huh? You're welcome to come over to the jail, come to my cell and see how I'm doing in there. All right. I'll take a pass on that. It would be interesting to know how the potential jurors are taking all of this. Judge Boresky brought them in and apologized for the delay and said that if they were seated for the jury later this week, he'd buy them donuts. A potential juror replied, that'll work before the group was dismissed. Oh, always theatrics with Lori Valodabel. She was back in court Wednesday and jury selection

did get underway. All right, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Several of the big trials we've been covering recently have had one thing in common, no cameras in the courtroom. Whether it was Steve Lawson's trial for conspiracy to commit murder that just wrapped up in Kentucky or the federal sex trafficking trial of music mogul Sean Combs underway right now in New York. The only pictures coming out of those courtrooms have been ones sketched by an artist. Our next guest, Christine Cornell, has dedicated her career to capturing

iconic courtroom moments and defendants with her sketch pad. Christine, welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. Thank you very much. And as soon as your face popped up, I knew I've seen you before in the courtroom. That's fun. I definitely have seen you in New York. So Christine, you just spent the day at the Sean Combs trial. You probably

walked past dozens of cameras outside the courthouse. Do you feel a responsibility to capture what they are not allowed to in that courtroom? It's what I do, my dear. So tell us about it. Yeah, no, I adore it. You know, people are fascinating, the stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge. And when you're lucky, you make art. And at the very least, you give them what they need to tell the story, you know?

Yeah, and you're probably covering mostly higher profile trials, right? If there's a need for a sketch artist. So, that's... Yeah, no traffic court. Yeah. Yes. No, Johnny ran a red light. You will not be there. Nope. Nope. So, Christine, what are some of the trials you've covered that really stand out to you? Well, since I've been doing it for 50 years, you know, there's all the mafia trials,

you know, John Gotti and Vinnie the Chin Gigante was an off, very interesting character. And then there was Leona and Martha and Emel DeMarcos, you know, all the queens. Yeah, Martha Stewart. Also, you covered Weinstein as well. Yes. When you're drawing them, are you just trying to get it right, like as close as you can, or are you trying to capture like more of a feeling or what, you know, is it, can you describe that?

It's both things, you know, you want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom, you know, you can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and Cassie. I could see it on her, you know, because she held her own, but she wept a little. And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life. So, you know, he's in warrior mode. Yeah, so you're trying to capture also some personality there then as well, state of mind.

Sure. How many drawings do you do in a day? Oh, three to five or six. After two weeks, I counted that I'd done 39 drawings. Okay. And I haven't added up this next week, but I'm doing you know, I'm doing a lot. This isn't actually the first time you've drawn Sean Combs. You were the sketch artist when he faced trial in 2001, going back in time. And that was for when Sean Combs was accused of firing a gun inside a Manhattan club.

He was acquitted of that. I'm curious, because this is many years later, he's been in a federal detention center, and so we haven't gotten to see public photos of him. So it's really you showing us kind of how he's changed and what he's looked like. Tell us about that. I think he's been working out a ton. He's got a very broad back. He looks solid. Solid, okay. Yeah. And then of course, everyone's fascinated that he can't get hair dye.

Is he all gray then? Nope. He's salt and pepper on the sides, a little whiter on top, and his little tiny goatee is very white. This is all fascinating. You know, there are times where we know that sketch artists get critical feedback sometimes. How do you deal with that? You know, if you hear-

I've done very little of it. For the most part, I get a lot of affirmation, you know? Puffy Combs' mom is sitting behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son. Really? And I said, well, ma'am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me. Oh my goodness. Do the defendants, do you find them looking at you? Sometimes, yeah. Does that make you uneasy at all or just, you

know, having the eyes on you? I was looking at Puffy on the first day of trial with my binoculars up. Oh, you have binoculars in court? Yes, ma'am. Oh, wow. And I will use them even if somebody is not sitting terribly far away from me because I want to see as much as I can see. So anyway, I had my binoculars on him and I see him looking straight at me.

So it sort of feels like a social faux pas. I put him down like almost comically quickly and he went. So Christine, you can't see this, but she's waving. So he was waving at you. He did. Well, thank you so much for doing this interview. You're a sweetheart. Thank you. Oh, thanks. Just super interesting. If you want to take a look at some of Christine's sketches, you can find them on our website

at DatelineTrueCrimeWeekly.com. And if you want to catch up on the Sean Combs trial, check out our daily podcast, On Trial. Every day after court, I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent Chloe Maloss about what she's seen, the witnesses, the evidence and what it all means. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad-free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Next week, we'll have more on the Karen Reed retrial and an update on a case we haven't talked about on the podcast before. But it's one Dateline fans will recognize, the Pam Hop saga. Coming up this Friday on NBC, Keith Morrison has a classic Dateline for you.

In 1997, a 21-year-old electrician was found shot to death on his bedroom floor. Investigators quickly zeroed in on three teenage girls. I was still in high school, so everyone was saying who they thought did it and everything. The detective called and asked you to look in the yearbook? Yes, I said, oh my gosh. But it would take years before the plot unraveled. Watch Keith's episode, Killing Time,

this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins 8 Central. Thanks for listening. original music by Jesse McGinty, Bryson Barnes as head of audio production, Paul Ryan as executive producer, and Liz Cole as senior executive producer of Dateline. All right, thanks very much.