Dateline NBC - The Family Plot

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Josh Mankiewicz reports on the shooting death of Matt Restelli at his mother-in-law’s home, which initially appeared to be self-defense but was soon suspected to be murder. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tonight on the season premiere of Dateline. I tried to get them to not get married. I said, don't do this. Kate was telling us how she was scared to death of Matt. Kate took the kids and went to Utah to get away from Matt. Yes. I heard that Matt came in with a knife. She told me that he seemed agitated.

My mom heard shots. Matt's laying face down. She says, Matt is dead. We mean Matt's dead. We just trying to ask questions. What happened? During that entire conversation, mom is whispering the answers to the daughter.

Like telling her what to say? Yes. All moms have influence over their children. This seems to be something more. Yeah. She called all the shots. What's going on? The knife in Matt's hand. It looked like it was backwards.

He's not a violent person, not an aggressive person. This did not make sense. We've seen a bunch of men. of text messages about an air attack. Somebody wanted to know where Matt was, leading up to his killing. For sure. I knew they lied to me.

I tell my mom we were at war. One deadly shooting, two families divided, and a mother of a revelation. I'm Lester Holt, and this is Dateline. Here's Josh Mankowitz with The Family Plot. It's easy to miss American Fork, one of many tidy, scrubbed communities that dot the Utah landscape outside of the Great Salt Lake. One of the roughly 11,000 households in American Fork is this one. An unassuming home on a quiet street close to good schools.

Four bedrooms with a finished basement and a community pool in a safe neighborhood. you could raise a family here. You could teach your kids the difference between right and wrong, and how doing the right thing isn't always easy. This story is about the lessons children learn as they grow up and what they do with that knowledge. 911, what's the address of the emergency? July 12, 2024, 1015 p.m.

Tracy Grist was on with 911. I need an ambulance. Tracy, a very involved mother to seven adult children, told the operator a family dispute had turned violent. My daughter's husband came here and they're going through a separation and he had a knife. The he in that scenario was Tracy's son-in-law Matt Rostelli, who was at that moment, face down in Tracy's downstairs hallway. Tracy said Matt and her daughter Kate were having marital troubles, and somehow Tracy's son Kevin got involved. And my son shot him. If he conscious or breathing?

I think he's breathing. Are you comfortable checking you see if he's breathing? Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, check you see if he's breathing. Check if he's a pulse. Police arrived within minutes. Can I come in? What's going on? What's going on?

What's going on? The officer went to Matt. He had been shot multiple times and was no longer moving. In his right hand was a knife. Can you step outside, please? Will you get medical? 5J 46, we have a man down. He's possibly Echo.

Possibly Echo, meaning Matt might be beyond help. Outside an officer questioned Kevin Alice and his mom, Tracy. So who is this that's in there? That is my daughter's husband. Okay, where's the daughter? My daughter's upstairs. Does she still have a firearm on her? My daughter, no.

Okay, who had the firearm? I already showed her it was. Okay. It's inside. Officers work to secure the rest of the house. Eric Gifford, please, if there's anyone else inside the house, make it known. Matt's wife, Kate Ristelli, was upstairs with their two children, ages three and six.

Hands up, come down slowly. I'm coming down. The officer's body camp caught Kate's glimpse of her husband on the floor at the foot of the stairs. Come down, come down. You're going to step over to the left, okay? Is there anyone else in the house? My children. I'll have you come out here with this officer.

Okay. I don't know. You're okay. It's okay. What's going on today? It was my husband supposed to come here to track me. I was upstairs waiting for him to come back. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I heard me out of him. I don't know what happened. Inside, first responders fought to save Matt's life. Is that the only gunshot room? I have no idea. I only saw one case sink. It was too late. Forty-year-old Matt Ristelli was pronounced dead. This Utah home was now a crime scene. How'd this call come in?

So it was reported as a shooting in a home. Detective Joseph Nordine was on the homicide beat that night. I was probably on scene within 30 minutes. He searched the home while officers spoke with neighbors. They worked on gathering security. video from the home across the street and noted a neighbor had heard some noises that night and called 911 around the time of the shooting. I'm pretty sure I just heard gunshot.

The house was sealed and everyone inside taken to the station for questioning. Matt and Kate's kids who seemed to have slept through all of it went along too. By night's end, detectives knew this way. much. One man was dead on the floor, and another had admitted to shooting him. You think this is the end of it? No. I think we all pretty much thought it was the beginning of it. What they had no idea of was just how complicated this was about to get. You have to be careful, because the breakup is where the danger is. I remember seeing the look on her face that I could tell something was very wrong. It's pure evil. I tell my mom, we're a...

at war. Do you understand that that makes it look as if you're complicit? There are cold cases older than he is. At age 28, the untimely passing of Matt Ristelli was exactly Detective Joe Nourdean's third homicide case since he joined the American Fork Police Department. I was going to ask you if this was your first homicide, but I'm thinking that the audience might want to know whether this was like your first day on the job, right? Because you look like the oldest son of a lot of homicide detectives that I know. It is what it is. We're a relatively small agency,

so our homicides are kind of few and far between. Now the youthful detective became lead investigator in Matt's death. He suspected that whatever happened that night, centered around Matt and Kate's relationship. Their story began. back in 2008 in Temecula, California, when Matt walked into a local grocery store. Kate stood behind the counter and fixed his sandwich. Soon, small talk turned to something more. Kate's sister, Terilyn Fisher. She was just in love with him. She was head over heels for him.

There was something kinetic about their relationship. After seven years together, a beaming Kate announced their engagement on Facebook. Kate's dad's Stan was happy for his daughter and his soon-to-be son-in-law. He was the salt of the earth. He was one of the neatest men I ever met. And I thought this was a chance for Katie to have a good life. The two wed in 2016. Kate's brother Kevin was one of the groomsmen.

I love Matt. He is an awesome guy. Kate's mom, Tracy, felt the same. You are a perfect. Ken doll, her, mom. I love you. Matt's speech was about his choice of Kate. I haven't been exactly perfect with all my decisions, but this is the best decision I've ever made in my life. Kate lived with Matt and his son from a previous relationship, on a remote lot in Temecula. Soon the couple had two children of their own.

Kate became a stay-at-home mom. Matt delivered hay to nearby farms and ranches. They had a property out there, and they always called it the ranch. I'm like, that's not a ranch. That is a dirt lot with tractors. And she just thought it was the great ranch life dream. It was a dream that did not last. The marriage seemed to have more downs than ups.

Then Matt's business took a hit during the pandemic. adding even more tension. Alcohol seems to have lubricated the anger on both sides. Kate told Terrellan she was increasingly miserable as Mrs. Matt Rostelli. She complained about her husband's verbal abuse and quick temper. She would send me videos of him just going off and yelling at her, yelling at the kids. Like this one of Matt yelling at Kate for putting wet tortilla chips on his food. I had a plate right here and you actually grabbed and put wet tortilla chips directly in my top top. That's okay? That's okay? Nobody asked for you to put tortilla chips on my plate.

It was a different plate. It was like a ciliary plate, Kate. Chill out. Like, look at this. Like, I can't do this anymore. This sucks. I want out. I really want out. I'm done. She would say those words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even so, Terylund says Kate was torn between leaving and staying. A lot of times with Kate, if you told her the relationship was bad, she would just get angry. She would fight harder for it. Terilyn says that was true until it wasn't. Kate, she held her own pretty well, but the last few months she would cry and break down a lot more.

About seven years into the marriage, Kate seemed completely overwhelmed. She texted her mother, Tracey. I hate my life, Mom. And this is so bad right now. I told my mom, hey, this is, we've got to figure out some shelter for Kate. Your mom says, come to Utah. I'll rent you a car and we'll get you to Utah. And I told Kate, I said, whatever you do, don't tell him to his face that you are leaving with the kids to go to moms.

He will hurt you. Terrell and knew Matt owned guns. and knew how to use them. I didn't hold him in very high regard as a person, and it showed up a lot. There were lots of circumstances where I've seen over the years that my initial instinct on him was correct.

So Terilyn helped hatch an escape plan for her sister. Without telling Matt, they rented a storage unit and secretly moved some of Kate's things. Then they loaded up a rental car, And Kate and the kids headed for Utah and Tracy's home. You see this as you helping Kate make a getaway. Yeah.

She'll be safe. Yes. Kate texted Matt saying she needed some time apart and was going to her mom's in Utah for a breather. Matt was definitely not happy about that, but eventually seemed to accept it. What happens during those couple of weeks that she's in Utah? She was happy.

She was relieved. Until three weeks later, when Matt showed up at her mom Tracy's house, eight gunshots later, he was dead. Kate's dad, Stan, who had carried such high hopes for that marriage, was devastated. The day Matthew died, my heart broke because I lost a son over this. You lost a son-in-law who to you was like a son. He was a son. He was a son to me. Now this private family drama was about to be put under the bright light of a police investigation.

What can you tell me about tonight? At police headquarters in American Fork, Utah, detectives questioned all of the adults in the house the night Matt Rostelli was killed. His wife, Kate, told them about her unhappy marriage. I came out here to get away from Matt. because he's been verbally abusive lately. I needed a breather because I was hating going to sleep, and I was hating waking up. Kate was telling us how she and Matt were going through marital issues,

and she was just scared to death of Matt. I was just terrified of him, but she did know he was coming out to Utah. She said they decided that morning that Matt would make the wrong, roughly 10-hour drive to American Fork so they could talk. I honestly, I was scared. I didn't want him to come out, but he was going to come out. She described Matt as already seething when they spoke by phone just hours before. I guess the drive made him angry. But he was mad that he was coming out, mad that he was

having to make the drive. A little after 10 p.m., Kate said she heard noises. I heard some commotion downstairs, like yelling. I couldn't tell whose voice was what. Okay. And then I heard shots. And my mom came downstairs. She said, there's been a situation, stay upstairs with the babies.

And I'm going to call my 911. And that, said Kate, was all she knew. Tracy also spoke with police. And what were you doing when you heard the gun shots? Is this a scary coming out? Do you know who this is? By then, Tracy had asked a lawyer who was also a family friend to come to the station. So could you take him to Kevin, please?

Yes. She told him to join Kevin in the interrogation room. What can you tell me about tonight? I was afraid for my life and I shot in self-defense. Apparently, Kate never told him Matt was coming that night. Kevin pretty much all he told us was, hey, someone showed up. unannounced, uninvited, and I acted in self-defense. Tell me more about that.

Under the advice of counsel, I decline to answer. It all came through his lawyer. The victim was an armed intruder, wielding a knife, entered the house without permission, took him and Tracy by surprise, was clearly agitated, and that's the point at which he and was to the wall, you said? the wall you said, was afraid for his life and shot himself defense.

According to Kevin's attorney, Matt had come in aggressively, backed Kevin up against a wall, and threatened him with a knife. He was there to bring his wife home. His intent was to take her back. News of the shooting reached Kate's sister Terrellon back in California. It was surreal, it was sad. Like there were so many things. so many factors. Not only had Terrellan's fear of a violent encounter come true,

but her younger brother was seriously tangled up in it. And I'm thinking, poor Kevin, he had to do this to protect Kate, and I'm so, I'm glad he was there, and I'm glad he was able to do it, but that sucks. And Terrilyn says she felt for Kate and Matt's kids

who had just lost their dad. Now they're going to know the kind of person their dad was in that respect. Like, how sad is that? Because that angry confrontation is essentially what you were hoping to avoid by helping Kate go to Utah. Yes. Exactly.

Because that's what happens in domestic situations. Whether it's physical or verbal, whatever, you have to be careful. Because the breakup is where the danger is. Hours after the shooting, police released Kate and her mom, Tracy. not Kevin. Kevin stays in custody. Mm-hmm. Does that surprise you?

It did. I remember being very angry at the police department and thinking, how dare you have someone under arrest who just went through this traumatic experience and was trying to protect his sister. What did your mom say during that time? She was just devastated. She was so sad that Kevin was in there.

Still, Terilyn had faith detectives would quickly close the case. They're going to do their investigation. They're going to figure it out. We just have to be patient. And this is going to go down to self-defense or defense of another. Yes.

For Terralin, the picture was simple. An enraged husband. A cowering wife. A brother who came to the rescue. Compelling? Well, like a lot of pictures, it can change, depending on who's looking at it.

I immediately thought at that point in time like something was off. The morning after the shooting, Tracy Grist called Matt's mother, Diane Ristelli, to deliver the news. Are you sitting down? Are you with your husband? Real calm. And she says, okay, Matt is dead.

And my immediate thought was like, you know, my heart sank, like, was he in a car accident? You know, did something happen where he went off the road? No, Tracy said, Matt had been. been shot by her son Kevin in self-defense. And I immediately like, I couldn't really handle it to tell you the truth. And I said, we'll have to call you back. Diane hung up and called her youngest son, Mark Rostelli.

She's very hysterical and just says, that's dead. And I'm immediately like, whoa, what? And I just say, because she lives across the street, I said, I will be a little bit. over immediately. Diane and Mark were both in shock. They called Tracy back and not wanting to miss any details. They recorded that call.

Tracy, this is Mark. I'm here with, I'm here with my mom. Like, can you just, can you tell us from the beginning what you know? Yes. Tracy told them what she told police. Matt showed up around 10 the night before. I was alone in the kitchen and I did not hear the doorbell ring. I didn't hear a door knock.

And Matt was in my dining room. He was really, really mad and, like, very agitated, for lack of a better term. I said, Kate's upstairs, but she's going to. come downstairs and I stayed in the corner of my kitchen because I was feeling uncomfortable at that moment. He went around the corner and then I heard gunshots. Jesus. And Matt was on the ground and he had a knife in his hand. I told Katie to stay upstairs while I called 9-1-1 because I didn't want her to see it.

I didn't want to make this call, by the way, so I'm sorry. Nobody wants to make a call like this. To Matt's family, none of it made any sense, especially the part about Matt furiously barging into the home on the attack and ready for a fight. How would you describe him to somebody who didn't know him well? Loyal, extremely friendly, like one of the friendliest guy. the guy who's going to come up to you and just talk your ear off.

And you'd come away from that conversation thinking like, that's a good guy. Absolutely. He was never abrasive. Never. Matt was a real gem in the world. What is this? Oh, that's a transformer. They say Matt loved mountain biking and the outdoors.

But that most of all, he was a family man. The Matt that I knew was somebody that loved his family. He loved his children. Matt's older brother Paul Rostelli was at his son's Little League game in Colorado when Mark called to break the news. I was almost my heart stopped. And then it turns out that we find out that it was Kevin, the brother-in-law. I immediately thought at that point in time, like something was off. He wasn't alone.

Matt's mom, Diane, knew Matt and Kate had fallen on hard times. But she also knew Matt had recently made a business. business deal that promised to ease their financial troubles. While Kate and the kids were away, Matt told family he also worked on himself. He had told me that he wasn't going to drink anything anymore. He said, I'm done. I'm done with all this. We have to change. Matt called his mom every night, and the night he drove to Utah was no different. Diane says he was about two hours away from Tracy's when they last spoke. And Matt was in good spirits. Matt just says, you know what, I'm going to go pick up my family. And he was happy about it. So there's no fury in his tone.

There's no anger. None. This is not a guy who's heading for some kind of battle or confrontation. No, not at all. And believe me, I would listen to all those little undertones because I've had conversations every night with him. I would know. I know my son. She also knew her daughter. in law. And that Kate, she says, was a far cry from the distraught woman sobbing over her late husband's body. Matt Ristelli's family knew his marriage had been difficult, but unlike Kate's family, they did not see Matt as the issue. So when you hear him described as volatile, violent, unpredictable, abusive. That's not the guy you knew.

Absolutely not. No, not one chance. And the interesting thing is it almost seems like a projection because anytime I hear that, I'm literally hearing the description of his wife. To the Rostellis, it was Kate, not Matt, who was volatile and abusive. They said Kate had a drinking problem,

often becoming belligerent at family gatherings. How many times you see her drunk at family functions? Many times. Too many to count? Oh, my gosh. Well, whenever there was a function early on, the answer was yes to all of them. To the point where we'd make a wonderful Thanksgiving dinner

and she'd be too drunk to come down and join us for dinner. Other times, they say Kate would lash out at whoever she felt had crossed her. I mean, you could see it in her. eyes whenever this would happen. It was instantaneously like, I'm coming after you. And there was no stop in it. And most of the time it was verbal. It was almost always verbal. Just nasty stuff, directed other people. She was never wrong. You know, she, she would make these comments that were just off the wall and just how she would convey herself to the rest of the family. It was embarrassing. You're making her sound absolutely toxic. Toxic. Totally toxic.

Even Tarynne, who helped her sister escape that marriage, admits, Kate could be a lot. I love her immensely, but also she's the one who would cause the issue at the family gathering. She would cause a scene, get upset, quick to anger. It was just Kate. She's difficult. She says the drama only intensified when Kate. Kate met Matt. Terrilyn knew they weren't right for each other and says she was pretty honest about that. I tried to get them to not get married. She was so mad at me because right before they were getting married, I told Matt not to marry her. I said, don't do this. The couple married

anyway. At the reception, Kate and Terrilyn's dad stand cautioned the new bride. You said to Kate, in the presence of witnesses, you're marrying into a good family. Don't screw it up. Yes. I said that at her wedding because I knew that she would, she'd somehow make a mistake of that. It doesn't sound like Kate took your advice. No, she didn't. No, she didn't. Diane also says Kate was not doing her part to make the marriage work. She was not helping at all in any financial things that they needed. And she kind of had the attitude that, you know, Matt was her stud and she doesn't need to work. And yet they needed things.

They needed things. They had a lot of repairs with the equipment, you know, the tractors and the diesels, and they had a lot of repairs. And I would see little glimmers of, hey, she's learning how to cook. She's learning how to bake. Little glimmers. But it just was only a glimmer. It just didn't last.

One of those glimmers was when Kate quit drinking, though it soon became clear she had exchanged one vice for another. She was using marijuana dab. I don't know what that is. They're basically, it's kind of a jelly type of concentrated marijuana that's in little jars. And I think they use a water pipe to put it in. So it's a stronger. I think it's much stronger, yeah.

According to friends and family, Kate dabbed so much. much during the day. She had this designated smoking camper at home. Things became so heated that Kate got physical with Matt, and she was arrested for domestic violence. Her case was dismissed once Kate completed anger management classes. Those did not seem to help. By March of 2022, the Rostelli family had seen enough. We were not going to involve Kate anymore because of how volatile she was as a human being. That father's day, they told Matt as much.

Then that rubbed Matt the wrong way. Yes, Matt was, he was pissed. I mean, literally he just, he grabbed stuff and he left. Last time I saw him, last time I spoke to him. By the time Matt was killed, Paul and Mark had not spoken with their brother in more than two years. The issue was killed.

And I said explicitly to my mom, she isolated him. I need to call him. And that's the step that I, to this day, will regret not doing. You didn't call him. I didn't call him. I didn't want to get dragged back in to their nonsense, to their drama. But I had no thought that this was my only opportunity to call my brother. So if I'm given the opportunity to call someone in need,

you know, I will call them in a split second moments notice. second moments notice because I'm not going to miss out on what I missed out the first time. You want to stop a second? No, I'm good. I just can't not tear up thinking about that. Yeah. The Rostelli family wrestled with grief, along with growing doubt about what really took place in the living room that night.

What happened next turns suspicion into outright anger? I tell my mom, we're at war. Two days after Matt Restelli was killed, his mom received a message. Kate wanted to talk. By now, both Diane and Mark were suspicious of her. So once again, they recorded the call. So tell me what's on your mind. So I'm sorry.

So when Kate says we need to have a good funeral, that's asking for money. Yes. As far as a memorial service for Matt, you have all the cards in your hand for that event. So, you know, you will have to do what you wish to do. Okay, I have no money or any of that, so I won't figure out I will do that then. It seemed Kate had dealt with the grief phase and moved straight to the GoFundMe part. your husband is dead and you're ready to just instantaneously talk about funerals and move on when we still don't know at all what happened.

Diane pressed Kate for answers. And do you believe that this particular shooting was justified? That's when she heard another voice in the background. I hear your mom in the background. She's giving you answers. And during that entire conversation, mom is whispering the answers. Like whispering, like telling her what to say? Yes.

When you hear Tracy coaching Kate, what do you think? They're in on it. Diane wanted to know more about the gun, which Tracy said she bought for protection during the pandemic. And how it got out of its lockbox in the garage. To me, somebody brought that gun out of the garage. I was not downstairs. I do not know what happened, okay? I cannot give you any answers, Diane. Kate told Diane Tracy had tried to help Matt after he was shot, but couldn't say how.

Getting nowhere with Kate, Diane asked to speak with Tracy, mom to mom. Hi. You know, Tracy, when were you able to give life-saving measures to Matt? I'm in so much shock, and I can't have the conversation going over the experience again. because I am so sad. I just need some time. Did you really try to save him, Tracy? Did you really try to save him? I was on the phone.

Did Kevin try to save him? Yes. And what did he do? I don't know. The moment the phone call ends, I tell my mom they did this and we're at war. The Ristellis were so disturbed by the call, they handed it over to investigators working the case. the detectives had also discovered some interesting information in the days after the shooting. It had to do with Matt's trip to his mother-in-law's house on the day he was killed.

Matt and Kate's home in California to American Fork, Utah is a drive of roughly 10 hours. Matt made this drive in his truck alone. Except, Matt was not really alone. Someone was following his every move. Police learned there was an air tag in Matt's truck. I mean, the conclusion is inescapable that somebody wanted to know where Matt was leading up to his killing. Yeah, that's what it seemed like for sure. They needed to find out who.

Investigators had asked Kate for her phone the night of the shooting. Now, Detective Nordean searched it for any mention of an air tag. and that's where we've seen a bunch of text messages about an air tag. He discovered the air tag could be accessed by most of Kate's family, including her sisters, Tarlin and Rachel, and her brother Kevin. I was able to find a picture that was sent to Catherine from one of her sisters that had the air tag location and it was labeled truck. And just in case you have any lingering doubts about how,

how Kate's family felt about Matt. This was the emoji they assigned to his air tag. In the weeks leading up to the shooting, the family members texted each other about Matt's location. Kevin wrote to Kate, The tag is still active. And just five minutes before Matt arrived at the house, this, from Sister Rachel to Kevin,

saying Matt was in the neighboring town of Orham. Kate's sisters were helping her track Matt. Yes. You questioned Rachel and Terrellan about their involvement in this. No. We attempted to, at least Rachel told us that she was advised by counsel not to talk to us. Terrilyn says she never spoke with police either. If she had, she says, she would have explained the air tag was perfectly innocent.

It was your idea to put the air tag in the truck. It was my idea. But Kate actually did it. Kate did it, yeah. I have air tag PTSD. So it was my daughter's air tag. We had it on her, tied it to her shoe at Disneyland. Terylund says that's what gave her the idea.

On the day Taryn helped her sister leave California and Matt behind, she says she coaxed a hesitant Kate into placing the... air tag inside Matt's truck before leaving. I told Kate, I said, we should put an air tag in the truck, because that way, you know if he starts to follow you. We were trying to keep her safe. She was terrified that night that he would follow her to my mom's. Do you understand that that makes it look as if you're complicit in a plot to track Matt?

Oh, I'm very aware that that makes me look complicit. I've never regretted something more than the stupid emoji I made on that air tag or putting it giving her the air tag to put in the truck. Two families. Two very different stories. Detectives would have to do some more digging. So where do you start? With the evidence, just like every investigation,

we just started with the physical evidence. That evidence was about to reveal a lot more about the night Matt Restelli was killed. Detective Nordine had the difficult job of sorting through the tangled knot that was Matt and Kate's relationship. He began the way all good detectives do by following the evidence. First, what was found at the crime scene.

Right off the bat was a knife in Matt's hand. So the way it was in his hand, it looked like it was backwards. Meaning the knife's finger grip was facing Matt's palm. And the backside of the handle was pressed against his fingers. The way he was holding it, It didn't look like he was holding it in a manner to hurt people to, like, slash or stab anyone. Now look at Matt's flip-flops. They're not on his feet.

In the body cam video, you can see them placed neatly by the front door. Who storms in for a home invasion? But first, politely takes off their shoes. Matt Ristelli was not some hardened criminal. No, I don't think so. And from Matt's mom, Diane, Nordine learned something truly fascinating. Nice found on his right hand, but he's left-handed. Correct.

If Kevin's telling the truth, Matt Rustelli literally brought a knife to a gunfight, right? And he's also holding it the wrong way and in his non-dominant hand. Correct. So from early on, this is sort of feeling like not self-defense. Correct. Police found the gun Kevin used to kill Matt on the kitchen counter when they arrived. And they also searched Kevin. So I'm going to have you standing up.

I'm just going to pat you down real quick, okay? Kevin told them he had a holster on him. Not even made aware of? I've only got to have a holster that's in my pocket. That's it. You can ask any gun owner or any cop if they wear a holster at 10 o'clock at night and they're home sitting around with the family. And the answer is no.

Like, you just don't do that. But you would wear one if you were expecting to use it. Correct. From Matt's autopsy, the location of one of his gunshot wounds raised another question. In his right hand, his non-dominant hand that he was holding the knife in, there was a gunshot wound that went through his wrist. And that's significant because being shot through the wrist would cause you to drop a knife? That's what I would assume, yeah. That's one more piece of evidence that says somebody staged this by putting the knife in Matt's hand.

Correct. So had Kevin been too eager to defend Kate that night and then maybe tried to cover it up? Terrilyn says Kevin had long considered himself, the family's protector. Kevin would always say I'll be here for you. If you need anything, I'm here for you. Terrilyn says that remained true even as Kevin battled his own. demons. The night of the shooting, detectives found a rolled-up dollar bill in Kevin's bedroom that tested positive for cocaine. That's something we need to investigate to see if that is

what led to the homicide or not or if that influenced it in any way. Or whether he's given himself sort of a shot of courage before doing this shooting. Yeah, that's definitely a possibility as well. Terilyn says Kevin was always sweet, but struggled after his his fiancé ended their engagement three years before. After that breakup, he was really, really depressed in a dark spot. And he'd talked about suicide. That's when Kevin moved back home in every sense of that term. My mom would still make his bed for him.

She'd still give him 20 bucks every night to go to the pool hall. She would pay for his drinks, brought him a car. Told him to get a job numerous times, but she'd say it's my baby. I'm going to take care of him. He's sad. Sounds like he was completely dependent on your mom. He was. Even as Detective Nordine learned more about this family, he continued to focus on the crime scene.

To establish a timeline for the evening, he paid close attention to that security video from the house across the street. Matt did capture Matt's truck pulling up. to the house. What time was that? 10.06. The next door neighbor says she hears gunshots at 10.07. Correct.

Yeah, I believe she said she waited about a minute or two before she called 911. Meaning, Matt was only in the house for about 60 seconds before he was shot. The neighbor's 911 call was logged at 109 p.m. Tracey doesn't call until 1015. Correct. So about eight minutes passed from when the shots were fired to when Tracy called police. What do you think happened during those minutes? So that's something we're trying to find out.

Investigators had questions about Kate's mom, Tracy Grist, and about why she waited so long to call 911 when the night mat was shot. They learned she had a complicated past. What was it like growing up with Tracy? a mom. In a lot of ways, it was magical. My mom was the mom that all my friends wished they had. Terilyn says there was a little less magic as she got older. I feel like she had a couple more kids than she could really handle. There are seven total? Yes, there are seven of us. So I'm the oldest. My dad and my mom had four kids. How many marriages? Four. Those were followed by four

contentious divorces. Stan, husband number one, says his split with Tracy was terrible. In the custody fight between the two of you, she accused you of abusing the children. And I'm going to say this, as God is my witness, that is a bunch of bull because I never touched my children. I never hurt them. Terry Bishop was best friends with Tracy for three decades. She says Tracy invented stories about all her exes.

After she would marry one of them and it didn't work out, then what, all of a sudden she was saying things that were not true. Exactly. She always got custody. She always got custody. And she did and said whatever she had to say or do to get custody. She says that's because Tracy lived for. for her children. When Tracy heard from her daughter Kate, things weren't going well with Matt.

She got involved. Investigators dug up a text thread from January of that year. In it, Tracy told Kate, I just told your husband, don't mess with my child. I want you to know, I meant that. He should not mess with you. He asked if it was a threat. Even years earlier, Tracy had confided in Terry just how much she disliked Matt. Tracy said, well, I hate Terilyn's husband, and I hate Katie's husband, but I hate Katie's husband the most. And then she said, I could kill him. Terrellin describes her mom as charismatic, but troubled. And there's this.

Tracy had a rap sheet, mostly for stealing. A lot has been made of Tracy being a thief, stealing money from people, like literally, like going into the purses and wallets of people whose house she's in or who come to her house or people she encounter. You've seen that? Yeah. So that's true. Yeah. It started when I was little. We were super broke.

We were super broke. and I think my mom's shoplifted here and there. The Ristelli said that at Matt and Kate's wedding, Tracy actually stole money meant for the happy couple. Zero question in my brother's mind and also zero question in Katie's mind. She knew about it too, to the point where they would hide things when her mom came over. Then there was Terry.

One day in 2022, Tracy came over for a visit while Tate. Terry was going through chemo treatment. A few days later, Terry noticed some things were missing, $13,000 in cash and a handgun. And silver and gold coins. And you think that was Tracy? It was the maid or Tracy. And when I called her and confronted her and said I'd called the police, she begged me not to call the police. And I said, Tracy, it's a gun.

I mean, I have to call the police. They took a gun. Terry did file a report. Police said they could not make an arrest without proof. And so Terry set a boundary with her longtime bestie. And so I said we can no longer be friends. Tracy denied stealing from Terry but seemed fine with that long friendship being over, as long as she didn't get into trouble.

She has a way of talking her way out of things that blows my my mind. Lo's my mind. Therlund struggled to accept her mom's intentions as anything but good. Loving? Yes. Intense? I call her eccentric.

Manipulative? Very. But I think that's why she's so charming. She's so charming. And a chronic liar? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it was always laced with good intention.

with good intention, or also never wanting to get caught with anything. Those are two different things. I feel like I have blinders not because she's my mom in a lot of respects. Investigators did not have blinders. And as they dug through Tracy's cell phone, Detective Nordine noticed multiple searches of a name, Dateline viewers will know quite well. The Adelson case.

Yeah. I honestly didn't know about the case when I was looking into the case. this. In case you need a refresher, Donna Adelson is a Florida grandmother who was arrested and found guilty of conspiring with her son and others to murder her former son-in-law, Dan Markell. It all happened against the backdrop of a bitter divorce and a custody battle. Less than two weeks before Matt was killed, Tracy looked up Adelson Donna. Adelson Donna, Adelson Donna movies and TV shows and new Dateline episode January 19th, Donna Adelson arrested at the airport.

To Tarillon, those searches did not sound all that suspicious. Your mom looking at the Adelson case suggests that she's looking for plots like this one, in which a family member is killed by other family members for reasons of, relationships and not money. Mm-hmm. I'm like, oh, that makes sense. That was an act to trial. I'm a dateline fanatic

or a true crime fanatic. Like, she is too. So that could have just been one of the cases we were looking up. Well, that wasn't all investigators found on Tracy's phone. There was also an audio recording of a conversation Kate had

with a divorce attorney one day before Matt drove to Utah. What's that attorney teller? So that attorney pretty much told her, like, hey, you're S-O-L. He could file something and yank you back really quick, or at least yank the kids back. If you want to get a divorce from him, you have to go back to California. If you want to stay in Utah with the kids, like, you need to establish residency, which, you know, Catherine knows will take a long time.

So Kate would be at a disadvantage in any potential custody battle. Something Tracy knew all about, from her own experiences. This was looking more and more like that famous Adelson case. A controlling mother, an obliging son, a looming battle for custody of the children, and questions about what others in the family knew about a murder. Investigators had a long list of questions for Tracy,

her son Kevin, and her daughter, Matt's wife Kate. Some of those were answered when the phone rang, and it was this woman calling. Tell me how you met Kate. I met her online through Instagram. You guys had a pretty good connection right away. We did. Her name is Stephanie Slocum. Her friendship with Kate developed exclusively online, where they chatted daily on Instagram

and in video group chats on Discord. Stephanie says that at least through a webcam, Kate's life looked great. She baked cookies, you know, she did all this stuff for her husband while he had his own work. And I was like, wow, what a perfect woman. I'd love to be like her. It wasn't long before Stephanie felt Kate's online persona was not grounded in reality. The happy marriage that Kate was sort of describing might be more what she wanted than what was really happening.

Yes, yes. According to Stephanie, most of Matt and Kate's arguments stemmed from Kate's admitted infidelity. She cheated on Matt? Yes. Numerous times? Yes. Then came the morning of July 12th. That's when Kate found out Matt would be driving to Utah.

She left a message for her friends online that could be read different ways. Kate sends a message to your group chat, which says, Wish me luck. I have to do big girl things today. Anybody say to her, what do you mean? What big girl things? Yeah, I think somebody did, and she never responded. The day after Matt was killed, Stephanie saw Kate in the video group chat. I remember seeing the look on her face that I could tell something was very wrong, and she just told me that she needed to talk to me.

They jumped off the chat and onto FaceTime. And she got right on the screen and was like, Matt's dead. And I was just kind of in shock. And I told her that I'm sorry. And she told me, it's okay, I'm happy. And she hung up the phone and went back to Discord. It's okay, I'm happy. Her words exactly.

Stephanie says that wasn't the end of Kate's odd behavior. She wanted to talk to me later that afternoon. And she was going to be. getting, I think this was when she was getting ready for a date. A date? Yes. Her husband is dead, what, not even 24 hours at that point? Not even 24 hours.

And she's going on a date? Yes. Yes. And she was getting ready, doing hair and makeup and everything. Within days of Matt's death, investigators learned Kate had searched online for how soon is too soon to tell somebody love them. And five ways to get rid of hickies.

It sounds like Kate did not waste a moment after her husband was killed, resuming a very active social life with other men. It was like it never happened. It was like Matt never even existed. After that, Stephanie called police and eventually cut off contact with Kate. She told Detective Nordine all about Kate's disturbing behavior. He added it to his growing case file, which now included this. the provenance of that knife found in Matt's hand.

After weeks of investigating, Nordine learned that exact type of knife had been sent to a house Tracy was visiting. So you think that Tracy got her hands on that knife that way? Correct. Investigators now believed Tracy and Kate lured Matt to Utah that day, where Kevin was waiting to kill him. Once it was done, police said, they planted the knife in Matt's hand

to make him look like the attacker. Three and a half months after Matt Ristelli was shot, police arrested Tracy. And then Kate, when she arrived to pick up one of her children from school. Kate made any statements at that time? She was very, very volatile, very upset. Detective Nordean met Tracy back at the station. I walked in there, advised her rights, and she just kind of had like a thousand-yard stare almost.

Like, she just looked like she wasn't quite all there trying to wrap her head around what the heck was going on. For Matt's family, the arrest cemented what they had suspected all along. I just shook inside. Absolutely just, it just shook inside. We see now that you did betray me. You betrayed our family and what you've done. Terrilyn found out about the arrests when her mom called from behind bars. And I remember her saying, I'm so confused.

I'm so confused. And so this went exactly the opposite of the way you thought it was going to. Yes, I did. Terrilyn remained convinced of their innocence. It made me frustrated and sad when people would try to say, no, I think they did this. I'm like, then you don't know them that well, because they wouldn't do this. Well, that was before she heard these recordings, made during the last hours of Matt Rostelli's life. What do you want to do?

I want you to be comfortable. I will be. I just become once I have my family. Okay, well, good. Kevin, Tracy, and Kate were together charged with the murder of Matt Ristelli. All three pleaded not guilty. Terilyn watched Kevin's preliminary hearing online from her home. I was sitting and they're probably folding laundry.

She heard Detective Nordean testify about texts between Kate and Tracy, texts that revealed Matt never wanted to come to Utah in the first place. What he did want was for Kate to come to California instead. Here's Kate texting her mom. Matt doesn't want to drive out. He's depositing money. for me to rent a car. And Tracy's reply, nope. Tracy told Kate to say she'd hurt her ankle. Saying, I have a sprained ankle, I can't drive. Yes. So in other words, Matt, you have to come here.

Correct. Still on the stand, the detective revealed this. Kate had recorded six separate phone calls with her husband on the day he was killed. First, Kate told Matt, she was un-earned. She was unable to make the drive home. Hey, um, I'm, I'm out of loss right now, Matt. Okay, just chill out. They won't rent me the car. Kate said she didn't have a credit card. Matt suggested she rent the car in her mom's name.

You need me to go at 9 o'clock and put more money in your account, whose account, and just rent the car in her name. Kate pushed back. If there's any problem on the way home, I'm... If there's any problem on the way home, I'm... If there's any sort of... sort of pickup on the way home I'm... I understand that.

Matt was hesitant to make the 10-hour drive in his old truck, the one with the air tag in it. I don't think our 250. Really? Well, I mean, I guess I could. Kate insisted. You can't just roll the dice with the truck. It's that sketchy.

In the end, Matt agreed to drive the truck, but worried about it dying on them. But I think when I get there, I don't think I want to turn the truck off. Okay. So I just want to get the car seats and load up and just kind of take off. Is that it going to be doable? Yeah.

Tracy's house was inside a gated community. Kate texted Matt the gate code. She asked him many times, are you going to come inside? You're going to come inside? Are you going to come inside and help me load up? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

The front door is always unlocked, okay? You can just walk right in the door. The door's always unlocked. I mean, it's like she's baiting a trap. Yes, that's what it looks like. Matt does not sound angry or confrontational. Nothing in those phone calls suggests he was upset, or that Kate was terrified of him, as she told police.

Yeah, how's going? Good. How are you? Pretty good. What's gone? I just called to see how your driver's going. I'm just passing that abandoned water cart. Oh, fun. Cool. You hear Matt acting aggressive or threatening in any way? No, no, he's super calm and cool, collected, and nice.

You're going to come in, though, right? Yeah, but I just want to make it off. Yeah, no, it's going to be easy. No, it's going to be easy. I mean, you can hear her just eager for him to come inside, just come inside. I mean, it's just, it's awful, to be honest. Matt's family was in court that day and heard those recordings. I was saddened by that.

You know, just the luring, just like, oh my God, this is so horrible. Body cam footage shows Matt left his truck running with his flashers on while he went inside, for what he apparently thought would be a quick trip. She was supposed to be packed and ready to go that evening. She didn't pack a thing. And the fact they would even say, well, Matt came in aggressively, was going to kill everybody. He's like, no, he wasn't. Matt loved those kids.

Matt wanted his family. For Terrellon, her family's. staunch defender. It was an eye-opening moment. I remember hearing those calls and just, what the F? What is happening? Because those are not the calls of a furious Matt

who's coming over there to have a confrontation. No, not at all. And it wasn't until I heard those calls that I knew they lied to me. I mean, just to theorize, if Kate had not recorded her conversation with Matt or if she had deleted it, this might have gone differently. They might not have been charged.

You would still believe everything your mom and Kate told you. Probably. I probably would have been their defender till the very end. And people probably would have called me a fool. You feel like a fool? I do. I feel embarrassed for how much I defended them. Two questions.

Why would Kate record such incriminating evidence? And second, why would she? hang on to it. I have no idea that, you know, at this point, I'm glad she did. That's because not long after those calls came to light, prosecutors received a different call. Kate had something she wanted to tell them. You believed her.

To some extent, I mean, clearly, you know, she's in it for her best interest. July 2025, After a year of denying any involvement in her husband Matt's death, Kate Rostelli suddenly changed her tune. She asked for a plea deal. In exchange for a reduced sentence, Kate agreed to provide details about the plot to kill Matt.

Prosecutor James Watabe, you believed her. To some extent, I mean, clearly, you know, she's in it for her best interest. Kate will be eligible for parole in 2006. At her sentencing, she apologized. I'm so very deeply sorry for the pain that I've caused. I understand that my apology will never be enough to heal the hurt that Matt's death has caused and continues to cause.

At this point, the least I could do is speak the truth on what happened to give Matt and his family the justice they deserve. It meant Kate would testify against her own brother and her mother. First up, Kevin. Kate admitted

she and her mom prepared the house that night for both Matt's visit and his murder. We were getting ready for his arrival by putting toys away, putting blankets over the couch to avoid blood spatter. Any other preparations?

The screen was removed. from the front door. Why was the screen door removed? To make it easier for him to come in and have it not be a deterrent. Kate remained evasive when it came to her brother's involvement in the murder. Prosecutor David Brown. She was still protecting Kevin. In the days leading up to Matt coming out, did you talk to him about Matt? I don't recall if I did or not. On the night of the murder, Kate said she was upstairs.

when she heard gunshots. I heard Matt say, ow, ow. And then after that, I heard Kevin say, be careful, he might still be kicking, like to be careful. Kevin's defense attorney, Scott Williams, never denied his client pulled the trigger. He insisted, Kevin was just a sucker, easily roped into murder.

You said there was a conspiracy here. It just didn't involve Kevin. There were two peas in the pod, not three. Tracy and Kate. Absolutely. And they sort of dragged Kevin in by saying, Matt's coming over, he's violent, he's going to hurt your sister, or if Kate's talking, he's going to hurt me. There's some cocaine. Here's a gun. If you don't do it, I guess I'll have to pull the trigger. On cross-examination, Kate seemed to get over her initial hesitancy. about turning on her brother.

She stunned everyone by admitting that Kevin was in on the conspiracy to kill Matt. Kate testified she, Kevin, and their mom, Tracy spoke about the plot the day Matt was driving out. We had a little bit of a discussion, and that was it. And that's the first time she had ever said that. after being pressed by prosecutors who wanted desperately for her to say that. The jury took six hours to reach a verdict. As to count one murder as charged any information guilty. Guilty of murder.

Then came the verdict on the conspiracy charge. As to count two, conspiracy to commit murder as charged any information not guilty. Why do you think Kevin was acquitted of conspiracy? I'm not sure. I think the defense did a great job, and I think the jury felt sorry for him. I felt like maybe that was a bone they were throwing in. The jury might not have felt so much sympathy for him. Had they known what would be revealed at Kevin's sentencing hearing just two months later.

Thank you. Please be seated. The prosecutor played a post-verdict phone call between Tarry. Merlin and Kevin, who talked from inside the lockup about what he had told his mother before the shooting. I literally warned her. I said, this will change so many lives. You won't even know how many lives it's going to change. Oh, my God, you said that. Wow. Yes. I said, this is a decision you can't take back. I said that to her. By the time you heard that recorded phone call of Kevin, he'd already been acquitted of conspiracy. That's correct.

If you reverse those two things, he gets convicted. Correct. Was your client not aware that phone calls from jail are recorded and monitored? So. I'm guessing you might... Welcome to my profession. The judge imposed the maximum sentence. Kevin will spend 15 years to life in prison.

You clearly could have backed out and said no and stopped. and this is what had occurred. Stan Alice struggled to take it all in. A dead son-in-law, someone he loved, two of his kids in jail, and all of it, prosecutors believed, because of his ex-wife Tracy. You being the investigative reporter,

and you've seen stuff like this all the time, how am I supposed to move on from this? Does that make sense when I'm asking you? There's a myth out there that some legal proceeding can somehow turn the clock back to when your kids were not convicted murderers and Matt was still alive. You will, because you have other children, figure out a way to go forward from this. One trial remained. You tell me, without Tracy's involvement, Matt's still alive. Absolutely.

Kate wouldn't have done this on her own. Kevin wouldn't have done this on his own. No. This is Tracy's hand over all of this. This is. Tracy's trial began in April 26, with prosecutors painting a portrait of a spiteful woman who killed not for money or passion,

but because she couldn't stand not being in control. Fueled by her hate for Matthew, inspired by her interest in true crime, Tracy planned and executed a knockoff of the Donna Adelson conspiracy. Wendy Adelson was Donna Adelson's daughter. Detective Nordine testified about Tracy's searches for that one particular case. So she searches Adelson Donna, Adelson Donna movies and TV shows, new Dateline episode. Did Tracy miss the part where Donna Adelson is arrested?

You know, that was one of her last searches is when was Donna Adelson arrested? So I think she thought she made me because she could do it better. Unlike Donna Adelson, Tracy took the stand in her own defense. Could she talk her way out of trouble? One last time. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I was shocked. A courtroom was the stage for a stark look inside what might be Utah's most dysfunctional family.

Right, Ms. Ristelli, I know you've testified before. Kate took the stand again. and said Tracy hated Matt so much. She was more than willing to sacrifice her own son, Kevin, to see Matt dead. She said Kevin's feeling suicidal. She told him that if he was going to do it, go off Matt first, and then he can finish himself off. Wow. That's mother talking to son.

Yeah, exactly. Tracy's attorney urged the jury to sweep away the moment. mess and recognize there was no big conspiracy here. I think you'll find this is just a messy deal that just got out of hand, and one guy murdered a guy. Tracy was innocent, he said. Whatever happened had to do with the rest of the family's chaos. He gave the jury a glimpse of Matt and Kate's home life, with that video of Matt

complaining about his tacos. He said, you were my meal. You were my meal. He said, don't do it. Shut up. I said don't do it. What'd you do? What'd you do?

You did not say. Not the best look, acknowledged the prosecutor, but not frightening either. It doesn't show him as violent. No one still didn't show him as violent. Next, on the stand, the woman at the center of it all. In a soft voice, Tracy denied preparing the house for a killing. Tracy said all she wanted was for the place to look tidy for her son-in-law. Well, Matt was coming, and I wanted it to look nice when he came.

Tracy said she thought Matt and Kate were on the brink of divorce and couldn't believe it when she heard those lovey-dovey calls between them. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I was shocked. Why? Because that's not what she said to me. That's not what Kate represented to me. any way, shape, or form. Tracy insisted no one was lying in wait for Matt.

And then, maybe by that point predictably, under the bus went another of her children. Tracy said Terrilyn was the one who came up with the lie about Kate's ankle. It was Terilyn's idea to pretend like she has a sprained ankle, so she couldn't drive the rental car back. Terrilyn denies that. As for Tracy's searches about the Adelson case... So is this a hobby of yours? Yeah. True crime?

Yes. Tracy told the jury the true crime that unfolded in front of her sofa was one she did not witness. She said she was in the kitchen when Matt arrived. Moments later, she heard gunshots. I went to the foot of the stairs, and that's where I saw Matt laying down. where he had fallen down.

And I saw Kevin and I said, Kevin, what happened? What happened? What did Kevin say? He said he had a knife. She said she went to find her phone to call 911, which she later learned was several minutes after her neighbor called. What were you doing during those six or seven minutes? Operating slowly because on the fight, flight or freeze spectrum,

I freeze, but I was so stunned by everything that happened. I was not moving fast at all. And that knife in Matt's hand? Tracy said she'd never seen it before that night. Did you ever plan and conspire with Kate to shoot Matt? No. Further, did you ever ask Kevin to kill Matt? No.

Did you ever ask Kate to kill Matt? No. Did you ever make a plan? To kill Matt. Never. No further questions, Your Honor. Matt's brother, Mark, was not swayed by Tracy's testimony. The way she talks very softly, it's a way it's kind of what she's always done.

To me, it's a total facade. Didn't buy it for a second. Now came the cross-examination. Prosecutors insisted Tracy was the mastermind. And that's why Kevin was angry with her after his arrest. To support that, they read a text Tracy sent to Terralin. You tell Terilyn, please tell Kevin that if he is mad at me, and doesn't want to talk to me, he isn't have to. And later you say, I am mad at me too.

Yes. Both sides rested. Tracy's jury took a little less time than Kevin's. About five hours. We, the jury, impaneled in the about entitled cause, find a defendant asked to count one, murder, as charged in the information, guilty. Guilty of murder and conspiracy. She'll spend 20 to life behind bars, locked up like Kate and Kevin before her.

It was an emotional relief where my tears sort of stopped to where it was like, it's over, you know, that we've, it made it happen. Back home in California, Terrilyn today has a different way of looking at the mother who raised her, and the wreckage that same mother spawned. I was surprised at a few of the lies she told, but also not surprised at all. Right. Terrilyn says she has decided to cut ties with her mom. I've heard moms over the years in this job cry for their kids. I've heard them apologize for their kids.

I've heard them flat out lie for their kids to get them off the hook. I've never heard a mom before try to implicate one of her children. As I was sitting there, and especially in the thought process afterwards, I don't know if she actually believes what she's saying. Terrellan never faced any charges.

She admits it was her idea to place that air tag in Matt's truck. But there is zero proof she was involved. in the family plot. I've spoken with police and prosecutors. I don't think they 100% believe that you had nothing to do with this. I get that.

And I can't prove a negative. And I see how, again, just being close to my mom and how close we were, it makes sense that that's cloudy. Do you anticipate further charges being brought in this murder? I can't really speculate on that at this point, but I don't, I'm not aware of any. Diane Ristelli says now that the trials are over, she can finally grieve. When I think about the loss of Matt, who he was to me, it makes me break down.

But I have to be strong for what Matt needs to be done. That his children and our family needs to be free from that family. Mark Ristelli is not counting on time to help him heal. Jump and shoot. He's now raising Matt's kids, along with his own. He has found a way to use time to help them remember an engraved watch for each of Matt's brothers and sons. On the back, I got it engraved, MCR, MCR forever, Matthew Clark Ristelli.

You always want to think about this, don't you? The good. I mean, I have Matt and Kate's children. So, you know, there won't be a time ever in my life where I don't think about it. That's all for this edition of Dateline. And don't forget to check out our Talking Dateline podcast, which will go behind the scenes of tonight's episode, available Wednesday in the Dateline feed wherever you get your podcasts.

We'll see you again next Friday at 9, 8 Central. I'm Lester Holt, for all of us at NBC News. Good night.