Dateline NBC - The Plan

Episode Date: October 15, 2019

A double homicide in upstate New York leads detectives on a cross country investigation to piece together a case with a surprising suspect at the center. Dennis Murphy reports. Originally aired on NBC on October 11, 2019.

I'm a human being. I'm sorry more than I can express. Every day, it runs through me. What happened? Will? Try to turn around. It felt like there was something going on. The multiple red flags. Keep an eye on him.

He's got a firearm on him. He is armed with more than one handgun. an AR-15 with him, a shotgun. To say cold blood doesn't really capture what happened in that driveway. Josh and Amber, they're dead. I'm like, oh my God, no! It sounded like it was premeditated. They had no idea what was coming their way. They put explosives in the door.

They blow the door. What a show, it was like a commando operation It was straight off the military It still feels like a horrible factory I blame myself for everything This story about young couples and their children Their tangled relationships Is so disturbing You might question what kind of creatures we humans are. You've been forewarned.

We have a lot of strange cases in the course of Dayline, but this one has a chilliness to it that just unmatches. It's something you don't usually hear about. The trip into the darkness begins actually on a sunny fall day, October 22, 2018, in the sleepy town of Sotus in way upstate New York. Tiffany Thayer was heading out to the grocery when her two-year-old got fussy about wanting candy. We went to the kitchen to grab gummy bears, saw my neighbor talking with a gentleman outside, and didn't think nothing of it. Her neighbor Josh, leaning against his truck, seemed deep in conversation with someone she

didn't recognize. Josh's girlfriend, Amber, had just pulled into the driveway. Tiffany reached for the gummy bears, and that's when she heard it. A gunshot. Turned back out my kitchen window and see Josh grab his chest, and Amber at that point had threw her car in reverse, and right as she was going past the shooter, he turned and shot her right in the head. Tiffany threw herself on top of her child, crawled to her front door, and bolted the lock. More shots followed. Pop, pop, pop. Too many to count. Shots just kept ringing out. It was crazy. She called 911.

As it turned out, Wayne County Sheriff Sergeant Matt Carr was supervising an eviction just a few houses away. He was dispatched to the scene. Immediately have people coming at me. And these are neighbors, these are not? At that time, I'm hoping they're neighbors. I'm not really sure who people are. It took the sergeant a moment to get his bearings, but for him, those images would be seared in forever. There was the homeowner, the victim, Josh Niles, half under the truck where he tried to take cover. He'd been shot multiple times. Amber Washburn, his girlfriend,

was dead draped over the center console of her car, which had come to rest in the driveway across the street. This is a gruesome thing you've come upon. Absolutely. You've got two dead in a pretty quiet neighborhood. Absolutely. Probably one of the worst things I've ever seen. As the sergeant approached Amber's car, he found something as unexpected as it was cruel. Poised in a car seat right behind the murdered mom was a child, very much alive, Josh and Amber's four-year-old son. I can honestly say I can still see the child in the backseat gripping his four-piece Chicken McNuggets. That's still, I can see it vividly. Academy and the streets don't really prepare you for that kind of thing. No, it does not.

The sergeant did his best to comfort the boy as he waited for fellow officers to respond. The neighbors, witnesses now, were telling the officer they'd seen the shooter, black sweatshirt and green hat, sprinting away through backyards. Sheriff's office, anybody in there? Come out right now. Let's open up and send him in.

A manhunt was underway for an apparently stone-cold killer. Robert Milby was assigned as the lead detective on the case. We had no idea immediately where that person had gone. We had a general direction. When the calls first started coming out, one of the first parts of the operation was to shut down the school, which was nearby. So the Central School District was immediately put into lockdown. So you hope this is all there is. You don't want it, but who knows, right?

Sheriff's Office K-9! If anybody's inside, speak up now or you will get bit! K-9s were brought in for the street-to-street search. The state police sent up a helicopter. So we were checking houses, barns, sheds, houses that people had alerted us to that wanted their houses checked. You didn't see anybody run through here at all? You thought the shooter was on the ground there, huh? Yes, maybe holed up in a building or car or outbuilding, something like that.

No running, nobody running through here. Meanwhile, news of the shooting was already out there on social media. Josh's sister, Nicole, first learned of it on Facebook. Her spirit slumped when she saw the name of the street where it happened. I called 911 and said, that's the name of my brother's house. And the operator said, well, what's your brother's name? I said, his name is Joshua Niles. And he said, I have no information for you, but a cop will get a hold of you. That's not good. No, my heart sank. The police did call, but they reached Josh's parents first, his mom, Barb Niles. She goes, there's been a shooting and it involved your son. I think she said he

passed away or something. And I just, I broke down and I just kept saying, no, not my Josh. Can't be my Josh. And I go, what about Amber? And she said, she's gone too. And I'm like, oh my God, no. And I just, I lost it. She then had to tell her other children, Josh's two brothers and his younger sister, Amanda. My mom was calling me and instantly I knew something wasn't right. Just from her cry. It was almost like a scream. And I kept yelling at her, mom, what, what, what? And then she was like, Josh, it was Josh. And she was like, Amber, too. Josh and Amber, they're dead.

So I wanted to do something. Like, I tried to leave. Like, I ran out the house. I wanted to go save him. But I can't. As Josh and Amber's families wrestled with grief, the town of Sotus hunkered down. Somewhere out there was a killer,

still on the loose. But where? Did you guys see anything at all? The search was urgent. The fear instant. Why did this killer target Josh and Amber? I had no clue whatsoever. No thoughts, no suspicions. It didn't appear to be a home invasion gone wrong or anything like that. No. And it sounded like it was premeditated. And later... What happened? The midnight ride in the middle of nowhere that would break the case wide open.

What the hell is he doing here? There was something going on, and it just didn't fit right. SOTUS, NEW YORK SOTUS, NEW YORK was in lockdown. A stone-co cold killing had unsettled the town and left a young couple dead. Josh and his longtime girlfriend Amber gunned down in their driveway. Amber's sister, Angeline, got the voicemail from their dad. He said, Ange, call me. I've got some really hard news. And just the urgency and the pain in his voice was just, it was the most difficult thing to hear. I knew at that point what had happened.

And I'm still thinking, I'm like, you know, maybe she's still alive. Maybe they're still alive. And then my brain's going, but they said there was two people dead, you know. Amber's parents, Chris and Marsha, had not only lost their daughter, but were now worried about Josh Jr., their grandson who witnessed the shooting. Obviously, the first thing is, where's my grandson? Where is he?

Because we knew the time around 2 o'clock, and we knew that was when she would be getting home with him from school. They told us that, yes, he was in the backseat of the car, but he was okay. Okay physically, but presumably in shock and otherwise unable to shed light on the crime. Four-year-old Josh Jr. had been diagnosed with autism and is nonverbal. He's right in the back seat in his kid's seat, isn't he? Yes.

Yeah. He saw everything. We know he did. There's the gun coming through the window. Exactly. Did you guys see anything at all? As the manhunt continued in SOTUS, Amber's family puzzled over the killings. They could not figure out who would want to harm Josh and their innocent Amber.

I had no clue whatsoever. No thoughts, no suspicions. I was completely clueless, you know. It didn't appear to be a home invasion gone wrong or anything like that. No. No, but it sounded like it was premeditated from, you know, the little bits and pieces that we could gather for those first couple days. 24-year-old Amber, with her love of gardening and professional bakery job,

seemed an especially unlikely target. She was such a sweet old soul. She was kind. She was easy to get along with. Everyone liked her. Josh's parents, Gene and Barb, thought the same thing about their son. Josh had no enemies that they knew of. His family says he was just a hard-working guy with a flair for cooking. He'd picked up a few things at his dad's restaurant growing up. We brought him under our wing and became my right-hand man. He knew his way around

the kitchen by the end of things. He was great. In fact, Josh had been putting a nice life together for himself. A new business was taking off, and just that week, he told his mom that he and Amber were thinking of making it official. He says, yeah, and we're thinking about finally getting married. I'm like, Joshua? They were doing pretty well together. Wonderful.

Bought a new house, getting their life started. Josh had a lawn care business he was starting up. Like, they were on the road to success. Everything was going up. Everything was going up. Everyone thought Josh and Amber were especially devoted parents, too. His mom remembers with affection the lighthearted way he had told her that Josh Jr. was on the way. I got up to make my coffee, like I always do, and there's an envelope right in front of my coffee,

and it says, Mom, Dad. So I take it down, and I open it up, and there's an ultrasound picture and a baby bib, something like, boys are from heaven or something. And I went, what? Meet your grandson, huh? Yeah. So I texted him, do you have something to tell me? Baby came with some difficulties, would be a challenge for some parents. Right.

He was probably a year and a half, two years old before we realized, you know. He was on the spectrum. That he was autistic. And not a talker. Right. Right. How did they as a couple deal with that? They dealt very well with it. Very well.

I didn't know how my brother would react to having a special needs. It didn't faze him. He's a normal kid to him. And Amber was just wonderful with him, carefree with him. He could have a fit and she would just giggle and go about her business. It didn't upset her or anything. But Josh Jr. wasn't the only child in their lives. Josh and Amber were also loving parents to two children from Josh's previous relationship.

The custody agreement had given Josh and Amber the summer months to care for them. Did it matter to your sister that new boyfriend Josh came with kids already? They had kind of a long-term relationship? No, Amber always loved kids. She did fantastic with my kids, and she wore it well. Josh's ex-girlfriend and mother to the children is a woman named Charlene Childers. She gave Amber the stamp of approval for being such a loving second mom. Were you okay with her being around your children? Yeah. I was actually pretty, I was fine with Amber being around my kids because

she took them in as that she was, they were her own. And she loved my children. Charlene lives in Texas, some 1,600 miles away. How do you find out? I got home from work on Monday, the 22nd of October, and I started looking at Facebook, and I saw the news articles of shootings in SOTUS. She wanted news of her children, who at that moment were in New York with Josh and Amber.

Luckily, they were at school out of harm's way. She called Josh's mom. Charlene's on the phone. Yeah, she called me and she said she heard. You know, and I just told her, I said, somebody killed Josh. Charlene hit the road from Texas as Detective Milby was trying to get a handle on the crime scene. He was struck by the sheer awfulness of it, with a wounded but still alive Josh having

to witness his girlfriend's execution. So even though Josh is shot, he's aware that his girlfriend is in peril here. Yes. Probably sees her get shot. Yes, he does. Eyewitness accounts tell us that he was yelling for her. And then multiple shots as he tries to crawl for cover under his vehicle and doesn't make it in. That's correct. From everything the detective was seeing, it was a very personal crime. There was several casings on the ground that told us that whoever wanted Josh Niles dead was there to make sure that there was no chance he was going to live. Josh Niles had been shot 10 times. A message killing, but one delivered by whom? We were afraid for our families, because we don't know the reason.

We don't know who did this. A mysterious figure. There's a couple of different videos of a person matching the description of what the witnesses had seen. Walking down the sidewalk towards Josh and Amber's home. A mask on the ground. Did you worry then we've got a hoodie-wearing gunman in the neighborhood killing people? I was terrified to be home just with me and the kids. Watch out the window.

Mm-hmm. A little scary. Is that my car up there? Police searched through the night. Had they missed their gunman? The canine sniffer ran out of scent just a short ways from the scene. Who tracked it to a parking lot? Well, that made sense, right? I mean, this is probably where your shooter had ditched his car.

I assume so, yes. Schools in Sotus reopened. Residents were told it was safe to go outside again. Nonetheless, Josh and Amber's loved ones remained paralyzed with fear. We were afraid for our families because we don't know the reason. We don't know who did this, you know, so we're just constantly being vigilant, looking around.

Did the tentacles of this thing come back to us in some way that we have no idea? Right, and who knows? A slower-paced, more tedious shoe leather investigation became the order of the day. Knocked on every door, knocked on every neighbor's door. Did you get any nuggets, anything? A little bit. With home surveillance systems that people have out there. We're able to get people of interest on video. So a person appears before the time of the shooting, I'm guessing, right? That is correct. There's a couple of different videos of a person matching the description of what the witnesses had seen walking down the sidewalk towards Josh and Amber's home. Here's one of them. A person in a black hoodie walks through the frame at 1.57 p.m.,

about 10 minutes before the murder. You can't see the face. At 1.58 p.m., the figure appears on camera again. So the victims are being surveilled? We've come to find out that that is exactly what happened. And another critical piece of evidence had been bagged and sent to the lab for analysis. We got a black mask approximately 30 yards east of North Street on Elmwood. A ski mask lost or dropped by the shooter, apparently, as he ran from the scene. One of the canines sniffed it out. Did it look to you freshly tossed or dropped? Had it been tromped on in the mud? It was an Under Armour ski mask.

So, I mean, that's not something that usually people just drop or discard. So, I mean, they're $30, $40. Pretty pricey piece of hair. Yeah, it's not something that I know if I dropped it, I would have went back for it. Would the lab techs come up with DNA? Meanwhile, investigators reviewed the statement the neighbor had given them about what she'd seen out her kitchen window. She said that based on body language, Josh seemed to know his killer. The gentleman was standing at a picnic table and Josh, for some reason, had pulled

his truck up next to the picnic table and he was just leaned up against the tail bed of his truck, just nonchalantly just sitting there talking. Detectives needed to do a little more digging into the life of Josh Niles. They conducted interviews with his family. We all met at Nicole's and the police came to see us personally there. You have anything for them? I didn't know. I had no idea at first. I couldn't even imagine who would want to do this to him. Josh's sister Amanda thought it must be a burglary. Maybe somebody did try to, like, rob him or wrong time, like. Did you worry then we've got a hoodie-wearing gunman in the neighborhood killing people?

The schools are unlocked now? I was terrified to be home just with me and the kids. But watch out the window. Mm-hmm. That was scary. His dad wondered if it was a case of mistaken identity. We thought maybe he's a new homeowner. Maybe someone thought, oh, this guy is bad that lived here before Josh.

Let's go do something. Detectives also wanted to speak to Josh's ex, Charlene. They first reached this mother of two of his children as she'd been driving in from Texas the night of the shooting. So this is only a voice on the phone. What are you hearing? What do you think you have here?

I think I've got a quiet little southern belle is how she put herself on the phone. Demure? Very demure, very cooperative. But she had some unladylike venting to do about Josh. She had given us a little bit of information that she had had a problem with Josh in the past, that there were several police reports. Charlene told us some of what she shared with the police.

She says that despite Josh's sunny demeanor, in private he could be a terror. She said he masked his anger issues with drugs. He was fine as long as he had his pot, as long as he had his marijuana to smoke. Other than that... He was tranquil, huh? Yeah. If he didn't, then things got bad. If things didn't go his way, the way he wanted it to, things got bad. And when I say bad, I mean for me.

She claims Josh got violent on more than one occasion. He threw a bar stool past our nine-month old daughter's head. This is like just throwing a switch. All of a sudden, he's a different guy, huh? Yeah. And you don't know what's going to trigger him. And it just, it went on that entire day. He beat the crap out of me and, you know, the cops came. And you stayed. Yeah. Is there a point where you say, look, this isn't working out? You know, I like you, but it's not working out for the two of us. Yeah.

We're not meant to be together. There was, and I had left. And then, for some reason, I fell back into it. And we ended up having another child. And then, about a year after that is when I just said, I can't do it. According to police, Charlene called the cops on Josh several times. In one incident, he was arrested and pleaded guilty to unlawful imprisonment after Charlene said he tried to choke her. She says she was so scarred by the relationship, she went so far as to warn Amber, his current girlfriend.

Unfortunately, I had to warn her. I was like, you know. Did you take her side and said, look out for this guy? Yeah. I said, be careful. About what? Be very careful because he does have a temper and I don't want you to get hurt like I did. Anger, drugs, and a warning from the ex. If what Charlene was saying was true, it cast Josh and his relationship with women in a whole new light. What role does he play in this? He plays a pretty pivotal role.

A possible suspect. And get this, he's loud and proud. He saw himself as celebrity status. He was quite taken with the fact that he was what he called a suspect. We were just trying to put pieces of the case together. He called himself a suspect. I'm guessing this guy's talking himself into a jam. He's talking himself into getting questioned again, that's for sure. And that happened? Oh, yes, it did. Two days after the murders, mourners gathered outside Josh and Amber's home for a vigil.

Amber's sister, Angela, is still on high alert. I remember just having this sense of, you know, is someone watching me? Did you ask law enforcement? Do we have reason to be nervous? Yep. And they told us we didn't. But still, it doesn't always settle your mind. Her parents, Chris and Marsha, were struggling with how close they'd come to losing their grandson, too.

Josh Jr., who'd been right behind Amber in the car. There might have been three victims. It could have been, right. Thank God it wasn't. Shoulder to shoulder with the distraught family and friends was Charlene, Josh's ex, demanding justice as the news cameras rolled. Whoever did it has now made it to where my kids grew up without a dad. And that's nothing a kid should ever have to do.

It's not something that you ever want to find out. The most I have to say to y'all is justice needs to be served. My kids need that closure. Josh's family hadn't seen much of Charlene since the breakup. And truth be told, they hadn't missed her much. His sister, Amanda. What'd you think of her, Amanda? At first, I liked her.

She was nice and always smiley, seemed to make him happy. But as the years went on, you could see it was a very unhealthy relationship. When you say that, what are you talking about? They would always fight and bicker, not getting along. True rumor that sometimes she would call the cops on him? All the time. All the time? And he would call me and say, Charlene called the cops on me again.

Josh's sisters say that Charlene, not their brother, was the real hothead in the relationship. An instigator with 911 on speed dial. Did anybody pull him aside and bro, you're going to deal with this? We've always pulled him aside and said this isn't a relationship. This is not how a relationship is supposed to be. You need to just break it off. Those two were like fire and water. They just couldn't be together. Everyone agreed that Josh and Charlene were better apart.

And in recent years, with more than a thousand miles between them, the agreed-on co-parenting approach seemed to work. I had them during the school year, and he would get them a week after school ended to a week before school started, and every other Christmas. Still, the history of tension between them put Charlene in the investigators' crosshairs. Well, we were very interested in Charlene, and I had asked her to come in once she got settled, to come in and help us try to figure out who had done this to her ex, the father of her children. And very quickly, they were able to conclude one thing for sure. Detective, were you able to rule out right away that she was not anywhere near the driveway

that day? I believed, because of phone conversations that I had had with her, that she was in fact in Texas on the day of the murders. So Charlene wasn't the shooter, wasn't in New York on the day of the murder. But it turns out she did have close ties to SOTUS New York. Close ties there to a local guy. She had also mentioned during one of her phone calls that she wanted her current boyfriend who lived in New York to come and pick up the children. His name was Casey and he lived in a town near SOTUS. Josh and Amber's family members even remember him consoling Charlene after the murders, as though an official mourner.

Casey was with Charlene the whole time we were doing vigils for my brother and having get-togethers at my house. So here was a theory. If Charlene did in fact have this explosive relationship with Josh, maybe her current boyfriend, this Casey, had evened the score by killing Josh as a demented lover's gift. What role does he play in this? He plays a pretty pivotal role. Police say Casey was a person of interest. He also had a scrape of the law. He and Charlene dated when she was just 14 and he 19.

They had known each other in the past. Casey had actually been arrested in the past for having a relationship with Charlene when she was underage. Casey was on the list, someone detectives wanted to speak to and right away. We reached out to him and brought him in for an interview, which he complied 100% and told us that he was just the boyfriend of Charlene and he didn't know anything about the shooting. But this was weird. After he left the sheriff's department, why was he bragging to his buddies about being investigated in a double homicide? We found out through some other people that he saw himself as celebrity status.

He was quite taken with the fact that he was what he called a suspect. We were just trying to put pieces of the case together. He called himself a suspect and started to reach out to people that he had talked to in years to tell them that he was a suspect. That's me, me, me, huh?

Yes. Also unsettling, Detective Milby learned that Casey was trying to offload a gun. I'm guessing this guy's talking himself into a jam. He's talking himself into getting questioned again, that's for sure. And that happened? Oh, yes, it did. Police uncover new information about Casey Miller.

He was actually trying to get rid of a gun. And they have a new question for Charlene. How many men is too many men? Well, there's Casey Miller, but then we also find out there's her husband, Tim Dean. And who's Tim Dean? Tim Dean is a former chief of police of Sunray, Texas. Tim is your husband?

Yes. Casey's your boyfriend? Yes. You got a complicated life, Charlene, huh? I know I do. Amber and Josh had been gunned down in their driveway and laid to rest. Now detectives working their murders were talking to a local guy who lived not far from the scene, Casey, Charlene's boyfriend. Detectives learned something sketchy about him. He was actually trying to get rid of a gun. The gun in question was a Glock 9mm

semi-automatic pistol, pink in color. And cops knew it was the same caliber gun that had killed Josh and Amber. And when detectives called Casey back for more details about the handgun, he explained the weapon's backstory. His girlfriend, Charlene, who had been so quick to badmouth Josh, she owned a pink Glock. And Charlene had worked in private security, I'm told. Is that right? Correct. She brought that handgun to New York. But Casey said it was all totally innocent. Charlene had a permit to carry the gun in Texas, but not in New York State. In her haste to get up to SOTUS after the murders, she said she inadvertently neglected to leave the

gun at home. Casey reached out to some of the people that he knew and tried to get those who had permits to take care of that weapon for her. Did the story of the pink gun sound a little fishy? Maybe. But a ballistics test ruled out that particular Glock as the one that killed the couple. And Casey had an alibi that checked out. He was at work when the shooting happened. He had arrived to work on time.

He was at work on the day of the shooting. But detectives weren't quite done with poking around in the life of Josh's ex-girlfriend Charlene. And they found out something quite curious. Casey was her local boyfriend, but not the only man in her life. There was Tim down in Texas. Well, there's Casey Miller, but then we also find out there's her husband, Tim Dean. And who's Tim Dean? Tim Dean is a former chief of police of Sunray, Texas.

Tim is your husband? Yes. Casey's your boyfriend? Yes. You don't need me to tell you you've got a complicated life, Charlene, huh? No. I know I do. A complicated life that was of keen interest to investigators. It went like this. Long after Charlene broke up with Josh, she met husband Tim. This was when they both worked for the Dumas, Texas Police Department. Charlene was the animal control officer there and Tim a sergeant. Charlene says she fell for Tim's aw shucks demeanor. He was the cowboy. He wore the cowboy hat. He had the cowboy boots. He had the old school manners. Why did that work for you at that point in your life?

Because that's how I was raised. He reminded me of my dad. He played the guitar just like my dad did. Tim did, huh? Yes. But not long after they got married, it all took a turn for the worse. Tim Dean had a three-year-old daughter from a previous marriage. He got in serious trouble after he was videoed slapping the child across the face. So what was the incident? He was accused of abusing his three-year-old daughter.

His own daughter? His own daughter. And Charlene is recording it on a phone or something? Charlene recorded the incident on a phone, and that information winds up getting out to some of Charlene's friends, and that is forwarded to the authorities, and they conduct an investigation in Texas. As a result, Police Chief Dean lost custody of the young girl.

And because he was living in the same house with Charlene's two kids with Josh, Child Protective Services in Texas alerted Josh. Turns out he was already on his way to Texas to pick up his kids for the summer. He got a phone call from CPS. Child Protective Services? Yes. The agency in...

The agency in Texas. In Texas, okay. You need to come get your kids. My brother said, I'm on my way to get my kids. Why? What's going on? He said, I'll tell you when you get here. What did he think about that? I think he was scared for his children because he didn't really know what was going on.

So Josh took the kids for the summer as planned and decided to file for full custody. Before the summer was over, a judge in New York ruled in his favor that the kids should stay with him and not go back to Charlene and Tim in Texas. This was just a few months before the murders. Charlene had lost her kids, and it hit her hard. This is a huge setback for you, though, Charlene. You've lost the kids. Yes, it is. It angers me and frustrates me. Is it anger directed at the states? Is it aimed at Josh? Is it aimed at Tim, who in a way got you in all of this?

Honestly, it's aimed at everybody. But she had a plan. Convince the family courts that she was done with husband Tim Dean, divorce him, and he would no longer be an issue. Problem solved. In August, we had our last custody hearing. We were, I told them, look, I'll divorce my husband to get my kids back. And they said, well, we're going to leave the kids with Josh for right now. When you get the divorce settled, then we'll come back and we'll look at it. That's what was going on in the weeks leading up to the murders. Josh and Charlene at odds over custody of their kids, all because of Charlene's husband, Tim Dean. To find out if this intriguing bit of drama had anything to do with the crime, the investigation was now headed to

the great state of Texas. What happened? Well, I'll try to turn around. A road trip to nowhere is about to shift this case into high gear. Is there anything in there I need to know about? No. Okay, I've got a shotgun in there. Okay, illegal. No drugs or? No, no, no.

Stolen guns or anything, right? No. Keep an eye on him. He's got a firearm on him. At that point, I keyed up that there's more than meets the eye here, but I didn't know what. Now the investigation of a double homicide in small-town upstate New York had moved 1,600 miles southwest to small-town Texas. To the Texas panhandle.

Farming country. Energy. Drive north from Amarillo and you come upon a place that's not much more than a shadow under the refinery. Tiny Sunray, Texas, population 1,900. It's in the county where Lieutenant Tom Flood works investigations for the FBI and the Dumas police. He showed me around Sunray. So tell me about towns like this in the Panhandle. Who lives here? What goes on? Small-town America.

Farming is pretty dominantly, except for up here they have the Valero oil refinery. I saw refineries. I saw a lot of pumpjacks coming in. A lot of pumpjacks. And wind farms. And wind farms, yes, they're taking over. The reason we've come to Sunray is because it's the town where Charlene's husband, Tim Dean, served as a chief of police. The department has just three officers. So what's the mission of being a small police force in a town like this in the Bay of Namib?

Narcotics is a haven for small-town America. Really? Absolutely. So that's your chronic crime problem? Theft and narcotics. Wow. Lieutenant Flood knew Charlene's husband, Tim Dean, quite well. He'd hired him years earlier and was happy to talk when New York police called asking about his history. Tell me about this guy. Who did you meet back when? Tim came in. He appeared to be, you know, a trainable individual, and that's what we were looking for. Did he have a fire in his belly for law enforcement? Had he been thinking about it since he was a kid? He was working at Amarillo Police Department, went through their academy. It didn't work out for him, and so he applied in Dumas.

A few years later, Dean got the top job in Sunray, but that uniform job ended as quickly as a slap to the face of his three-year-old daughter. The Rangers looked at that smartphone video of the incident taken by his wife and promptly arrested him. Tim resigned his position with the police. So goodbye police chief job. For him, yes. That's going to be a shocker right away. Our police chief is arrested, is out of office

because of a child abuse allegation. Yes, yes. And at that point, things start going south for Mr. Dean. With his job gone, the state taking away his daughter and Charlene's two kids as well, plus a pending divorce, Tim Dean's life was in a tailspin. He actually had to move out and move to a house in Dumas. He's out of his job, away from his kid, out of the house. Yes.

And now, New York investigators were wondering if that tailspin had led to a very dark act, a double homicide. It was kind of a shock. I'm like, what's going on? Why are we thinking this? Why are we thinking Tim? Here's why. It's just a theory. If losing custody was the reason Charlene was divorcing him, maybe Tim Dean had a reason to want Josh and Amber dead. Maybe Tim Dean could save his marriage if he helped Charlene get her kids back. One way to do that, kill their dad, Josh. Courts would have no choice but to return the kids to their mom in Texas. Their question, is this guy, Timothy Dean, our guy in the driveway with a gun?

Exactly. Is he our shooter? Exactly. So the question is, where has he been? What's his alibi? Exactly. So we started trying to piece it together. They obtained a warrant for Dean's cell phone records, scrolled through, and found something intriguing. Two days before the murders, Tim Dean wasn't at home in Texas. He was 400 miles away in Emporia, Kansas, and he'd placed a call to 911. Deputy Corey Nicolette of the Lyon County Sheriff's Office is the Kansas officer who

responded to the call. He had called it in that he had had a wreck and was reporting the wreck. It was 4 a.m. when Deputy Nicolette came upon Tim Dean by the side of a dark highway. The deputy turned on his body cam. What happened? Well, I tried to turn around. He was sitting in a ditch about two feet off the roadway, and he got out and told me that he was making a U-turn and hit something.

Okay, I got your license and paperwork for this thing. It's going to be fine. It's a damn rental car. Mm-hmm. Got your rental agreement? Yeah. It's a damn rental car. Got your rental agreement? Yeah. Come on, jump in here with me real quick. Okay, jump in the front passenger seat. Tim explained he was lost and looking for a gas station. And you tried to turn around?

I tried to turn around right here. So you just made a big flip around? Yeah. Yeah, we don't really do that around here. As you see why yeah the deputy requested a tow then asked him where he was headed honestly man i was just driving my whole life has kind of gone lately more or less living out of my car but you had money to get around yeah i still work just off this weekend You didn't want to take your car? My car, the starter's acting up on it.

Oh. Cops like asking questions, and Tim Dean apparently liked answering them. So you're driving around Kansas from Texas, huh? Yeah. The body cam was still rolling as they chatted in the patrol car. It started to sound like Dr. Phil. So where's your wife? She's at home.

I thought you said you didn't have a home. Well, we have a pending divorce and all that fun stuff. Yeah, that's mine. Pending divorce, huh? Is that why you're out driving around instead of at home? Yes, sir. That bad, huh? Yeah, like I said, it's all gone to s***.

He told the officer about losing not just his wife, but also his job. I work for Frito-Lay now. Used to be a cop. Where were you a cop at? Dumas first, and then Sunray. Why'd you quit copping? Well, I pissed off the DA and...

That could happen. I was tackling some pretty big public corruption cases. Ended up with a target on my back and got arrested by the Texas Rangers on a f***ing charge. The officer didn't know that this conversation would be looked at again later.

He just knew that he was getting a weird vibe. At that point that I thought, okay, you know, this guy just said he'd recently been arrested after being a cop for 10 years. Why is he in Kansas? What's going on? If you would stay here, I got to take some pictures of the vehicle and stuff, especially since it's insurance, they're going to want more pictures than normal. Is there anything in there I need to know about? No. Okay. I've got a shotgun in there, but it's illegal. No drugs or? No, no, no, no. Stolen guns or anything, right? No. Okay, well hang tight here. I'll be right back. Tim Dean's story was making the deputy twitch. He passed on his concerns to the backup officer on scene. There's more than meets the eye here, but I didn't know what. Oh, it's my personal.

Soon they'd learn a lot more about this disgraced police chief in a roadside ditch in Kansas in the middle of the night. Do you come in the shop? Yeah. We should have video of him in the shop. Do you? We got camera right there. They had video of Timothy Dean showing up to pick up a tote. And I could see in the video he walked out with a concealable ballistic vest and a 12-gauge shotgun.

Timothy Dean's long, strange trip. Exactly what was he up to? I'm glad you guys are following up on this because I even told him I had weird vibes about all this. And later, one, two, three in the interrogation room. Who? Why? That's what I want to know. This double murder would have a triple twist. Okay, I got your license and paperwork for this thing. The sheriff's deputy in Kansas had responded to a guy from Texas putting his rental car in a ditch in the middle of the night.

License. No big deal, but something about his story was off somehow. My whole life has kind of gone to s*** lately. It felt like there was something going on, and it just didn't fit right. He'd have had a better day had it been normal. The strange encounter had all but left his mind when a few days later, the deputy got a surprise call

from the FBI asking about that traffic accident. The Kansas 911 call had popped up during the search of Tim Dean's cell phone records, and the FBI was trying to create a timeline for Tim Dean in a murder investigation. I thought, well, okay, I don't know what I have to offer for this, but here's everything I've got to try to help. So now, Deputy Nicolette of the Lyon County Sheriff's Department in Kansas found himself pulled into a growing multi-state, multi-agency investigation. They wanted to hear everything. He's asking me if I'd worked this wreck and who was there,

if he said where he was going. With out-of-state investigators so eager to hear more, the deputy decided to backtrack and try to figure out where Dean had gone after the accident. The deputy visited the garage where Tim Dean's wrecked car had been towed. He again turned his body cam on to record. Thanks for coming in on your day off. You're welcome. Appreciate it. The garage mechanics remembered helping him unload a tote bag full of ammo. The tote, when I opened it up, it was magazines with ammo and a... Big magazines or little magazines? Big ones. A AR style, like miniature rifle. Also in Tim's car was a long gun. That's when I saw the shotgun under the tote, grabbed the shotgun, and I saw a sport vest.

I wouldn't say it was like bulletproof by any means, but it was a sport shooting vest. With pouches or something? I don't remember if there was pouches, but it was all black. And I mean, it was probably five, eight pounds. Like, it had some weight to it. Did he come in the shop? Yeah. We should have video of him in the shop.

Do you? We got camera right there. They had video of Timothy Dean showing up to pick up a tote. And I could see in the video he walked out with a concealable ballistic vest and a 12-gauge shotgun. The garage crew wondered among themselves what this guy was doing with an arsenal in his car. I'm glad you guys are following up on this because I even told him I had weird vibes about all this. Where did Tim Dean go next? The deputy learned he had an Uber waiting and tracked down the driver at her office.

She said before Tim got into her car, he warned her about the goods he was carrying. You know, he warned me. He goes, it's a shotgun. Is that a problem? I said, is it loaded? He said, no. I said, well, then that's fine.

I don't, you know, I'm not scared of guns. She dropped him off at a local hotel. And that's the last you saw him was at Motel 6? The last I saw him. Okay. Tim Dean had left the hotel and gotten out of town. But how? The deputy assumed Tim rented a new car after he wrecked his first.

And so he went over to the main car rental company in town, Enterprise. So you know who I'm talking about? I have an idea, yeah. Sure enough, the rental associate on duty said Tim Dean had been there. He was the walk-in from Texas who didn't have a credit card on him. He walked in and then I told him that he couldn't rent because he just had cash on him. And he was really upset about that and he just left. Left, but for where? Back home to Texas or somewhere else? This was about 48 hours before Josh and Amber would be executed in Sotus, New York.

Back at his station, Deputy Nicolette thought back on that long chit-chat he'd had with Tim Dean, and there on that body cam video was a back and forth that stopped him cold. So where are you going to go? Well, I've got a family friend that I was going to go see, but... Where's that at? That's all the way up in New York. New York, the scene of the crime. Deputy Nicolette relayed the information to the FBI.

When I said that he was going to New York, everything changed at that point. Tim Dean admits that he is coming to New York. He is armed with more than one handgun. He's also got an AR-15 with him, a shotgun, and a body armor. How does he explain all that to the deputy on the side of the road? Well, I guess it's not uncommon for people to be in possession of weapons in Kansas. But it becomes instrumental when he admits that he's going to New York. As far as we knew, Tim Dean didn't have relatives in New York. But he did, they learned,

have a fresh rental picked up at the airport. And law enforcement would later have the make, model, color, and license plate of that vehicle passing surveillance cameras on its way to upstate New York. Timothy Dean was a heat-seeking missile on his way. We've already got indication that this guy's done killed two people. We're not going to take a chance on him. Inside, the all-out blowout to capture Tim Dean. You've had eyes on the house. You know he's home. Yes, we know he's here.

They put explosives in the door. They back out. When they back out and everybody's clear, they blow the door. What a show. It's like a commando operation. It was straight off the military. Could they take him alive? As a rule, cops don't show the families of their victims the investigative cards they're holding, no matter how badly they need to know. We were cooperating with the police, trying to get as much information from the police that we could,

following the news stories the best that we could, you know, just trying to piece things together. The police just kept saying, be patient. There's things coming up, be patient. So I was patient, and I didn't want to interfere to stop them from finding who killed my son. So the families didn't know that on October 29, 2018, one week after the murders, five detectives from New York were headed to the

Texas panhandle. They wanted to talk with Tim Dean, Charlene's husband. You take a road trip? Yes, we do. Never do it again. That's 24 solid hours of driving, then never do it again. They'd come up with a plan to bring him into custody. Texas decided that they had still had some charges for him on the child abuse complaint. Oh, so this is really a holding action. You can put him on ice while you develop the case, huh? Yes, or try to talk to him. Tim Dean lived in a 50s one-story house on the edge of town.

The cops had surveilled the home and knew he was there. They were treating him as the suspect in a double homicide, not a child abuser. So they went in strong. After dark, SWAT teams, uniforms, weapons drawn. A takedown right out of SEAL Team 6. Texas investigator Tom Flood was there. How come it's not going to be a knock, knock, knock? You know who we are, Tim. We're out here. We got paperwork for you. We're going to serve you.

We've already got indication that this guy's done killed two people. We're not going to take a chance on him shooting us. You've had eyes on the house. You know he's home. Yes, we know he's here. They put explosives in the door. They back out. When they back out and everybody's clear and everybody's situated, they blow the door. This iPhone footage was taken by a neighbor across the street as explosions blew out the front door. What a show. It's like a commando operation. It was straight off the military. And eventually

he does come out and he actually comes out to about right here and raises his hands. And if he hadn't surrendered? If he had made a poor decision to resist, he wasn't going to go to an interview room at that point. No, he would have been shot. With her suspect in custody, Dean, the one-time police chief, was transported to an interview room for questioning by an FBI agent and a Texas Ranger. But of course, the reason they brought him in had nothing to do with causing injury to a child, the charge on their arrest warrant. They wanted to talk to him about Amber and Josh. Had you ever met him in person?

I've been there when he'd come to get the kids. How's his demeanor? What's the line of the questioning? He's very quiet. He doesn't say a whole lot. They asked him about his soon-to-be ex-wife, Charlene, the trouble he'd caused with her kids. How did she react to losing custody?

Obviously not well. Like anybody else? Yeah. I mean, she's never not had the kids. Does she blame you? Probably. Of course, one of the theories was that Tim had killed Amber and Josh to win his wife back.

So they put that to Tim directly. Do you think he'd get her kids, help get her back? I know there's no getting her back. There hasn't been. I mean, in your mind, is that a possibility? You thought maybe this would help

get her back in your depressed state and stuff? I mean, it's done. It's been done. There's no getting her back. I've accepted that. That's why I've been in a state of mind. Is it true you hated Josh? I never even met the man.

The investigators told Tim they knew he'd traveled to New York State around the time of the murders. But why did he drive all the way there? I was originally going to go see her uncle and see if I could talk to him and get him to talk some sense into her and maybe get her to ride this thing out with me. Maybe Tim did think he could win her back, but in the end he admitted he never did see her uncle, just drove, slept, and drank. For a while, the investigators played good cop with Tim and seemed to speak to him with a sense of compassion.

I mean, I can tell you life is hard, but my version of hard and your version of hard is two different things. I can't say my life's been that hard, but goodness, I can sympathize with you. Tim told them yes, he had hit a low point, and offered an explanation as to why he was driving so far from home. I left home with the intention of going somewhere far away and put a f***hole in my head so nobody that knows me would have to be the one to find me and work it. Okay.

What changed? I turned my phone off so nobody could call me and figure out what I was doing and try and talk me the f**k out of it. Okay. The interrogators ever so gently turned the conversation back to the murders. So what changed? What made it change to what happened that day? If you think I'm going to sit here and say that I did that, you're crazy. I think you're crazy if you don't, quite honestly. It's not a question if you did it. It's a question of why and are you sorry?

Do you think these five different detectives from New York drove down here for no reason? I have no idea why the FBI is here. What happens when you drive to commit a crime? I didn't drive to commit a crime. Well, suicide is on the FBI's radar. The interrogators weren't buying it and urged him to come clean. You're not a monster, man. You have to f*** up. There's no doubt about it. The interrogators weren't buying it and urged him to come clean. You were a good cop at some times, right? I mean, we all screw up in life. There's a path to redemption and everything else, Tim. When that approach failed, investigators tried to rattle him by talking about the victims.

Are you sorry Amber and Josh got killed? Do you hear what I'm saying? I hear what you're saying. Are you sorry they got killed? I'm not saying you killed them. Are you sorry they got killed? I'm sorry they got killed I'm not saying you kill them are you sorry they got killed can you say their names Josh and Amber say I'm sorry Josh and Amber got killed not that you did it no I want no you didn't you're saying it in parts you can't even I'm not you know because you can't you realize you're talking about being in solace and everything I mean that's no doubt're saying that, but you didn't do it.

You know, who's going to believe that? I didn't do it. They took my chances, I guess. The investigators pushed hard to break him, but they never did get a confession. I've never been in the presence of a bigger killer. Fortunately, Tim Dean wasn't the only person they wanted to talk to. There was, can you believe it, another local cop on their list of persons of interest. You like police work?

Yes, sir. Two cops in the middle of a murder plot? Ron has a decision to make, whether he wants to be a good witness or he wants to be charged in conspiracy to commit two murders. You definitely don't want that. So he's way in the slime at this point. Yeah, yeah. He was just hit with all the truth. Soon he would have a killer secret to reveal.

You overheard Dean say, what? Tim Dean stuck to his story. He'd driven to New York with suicide in mind. The suicide is on the FBI's radar. His interrogators didn't believe him for an instant, but they had another lead to pursue. Another cop, in fact. A man named Braun. So Braun, how do you say his last name? Bowler. Bowler. I'm not sure I heard anyone say that out loud.

Braun Bowler. So he's a police officer as well? He is. 34-year-old Braun Bowler had served 11 years as a Texas cop. He had worked for the Cactus Police Department, and most recently at Sunray after Tim lost his job there. And he was a family man, a husband, a father, and a friend to Tim Dean. So how did Officer Braun come onto the police radar? Okay, I got your license and paperwork for this thing.

Well, it goes back to that rental car Tim Dean put in a ditch in Kansas. It was Braun's name on the rental papers, not Tim's. The Kansas deputy picked up on that right away. Who's Bowler Brown? He's a buddy of mine. Yeah, that's going to cause you more problems than anything. I know. So he rented the car for you?

Yeah, because I was stuck at work. I wasn't going to make it in time. I'm not looking forward to that phone call. That'll bite him in the ass pretty big. There we go. Tim's seat right there. Investigators in Texas called in the Sunray cop for an interview. You like police work? Yes. Okay.

I've done it for seven years. Ron didn't hesitate about the rental car. Sure, he'd rented it for Tim, he said. That's what friends do. After all, Tim's life at that point was a mess. His credit cards were maxed out, and he's two months behind. He told me, hey, I need a vehicle for the weekend. I'm like, okay, not a problem.

So did he know where Tim was planning to go with it? No, answered the cop. Tim's phone call about the wreck in Kansas came as a surprise. Did you question what he was doing up in Kansas? At first, no, because I thought he just had to go up there for a free delay. I was like, okay. You know, I took it at face value. And I was like, okay, hey, are you okay?

That's the main thing. He goes, yeah, I'm good. But the car's pretty effed up, excuse my language. And I was like, okay, you know, we got insurance, we'll get it fixed. Dean never mentioned that he was gonna go on a road trip, that he was gonna go to New York, that he was gonna go anywhere.

He was just gonna use that car, that rental car, locally. Yes, sir. So if I were to ask you, are you lying about knowing that Dean was taking that rental car to New York, what would you say? I'd say no. Okay. That's the truth, right? Yes, sir. Okay. Braun agreed to take a polygraph. He failed miserably. You failed that question, okay? The investigators now approached him cop to cop. I'm really sad. I'm sad. We're brothers. It was fish or cut bait time. Ron has a decision to make whether he wants to be a good witness or he wants to be charged in conspiracy to commit two

murders. You definitely don't want that. So he's way in the slime at this point. Yeah, yeah. He was just hit with all the truth. Ron chose to cooperate and told a startling story, how a murder plot came together. So you're saying you overheard Dean say what? Debra's gonna die. Debra's gonna die?

Braun said the goal of Tim's trip had never been suicide. He'd gone to New York, he said, to murder Josh plain and simple. He was going up there to kill him. He said he was going to go up there to kill him? Yes, sir. And the chilling details. He said the murder had been planned at a meeting at Tim's house inside his garage. That same house the SWAT team would later blow their way into to make the arrest on Dean. So the plan was laid in then?

That you rent the car, not in his name, so he wouldn't get caught? I'm down. You're a very important witness, bro. Yes, sir. A witness who could describe how two cops could come to plot a murder. And this is the garage. This is where the meetings took place. And at least one of those meetings,

Braun was here while he was on duty, while he's working. So there's a marked unit sitting out front. Wow, so he's in uniform. You know, I can't help thinking, Tom, here we are, 1,500 miles away, there's a guy in upstate New York who is dead man walking. He has no idea what's going down in this garage and panhandle of Texas.

Not right now, he doesn't. He knew what did. What's his dog in the fight here? What's he got going on? Other than the fact that he worked here as a police officer, Tim was his friend, and he was going to do whatever he needed to to help him out. Including get you a rental car so you can drive all the way across the country and kill a guy. Exactly. When Braun's interview ended, Lieutenant Flood followed him back to his house while the authorities prepared an arrest warrant.

When he got home, we arrested him. Does it embarrass you that we're talking about two guys who are sworn officers here? It's embarrassing to think that they felt like they could do this and get away with it. And that put the majority of Sunray's three-man force, past and present, under arrest. But the investigation was far from over. Someone else they'd eyed all along was still in their crosshairs. They were back to where they'd started, with a certain embittered young woman from Texas. I called his mom.

And she's like, Charlene, here's the phone. Josh is dead. I hit his mom. And she's like, Charlene? Yes. I'm going, Josh is dead. I hit the floor. Really? What the hell is going on? Yeah. Like, it still feels like a horrible bad dream. Josh's ex, Charlene.

You need to look at Charlene. Did you say, oh no, that can't be, don't... I said, oh no, I pray it's not. What story would she tell? Did you have, oh, no, that can't be done? I said, oh, no, I pray it's not. What story would she tell? Did you have anything to do with Tim shooting Josh and Amber? What happened? Well, I tried to turn around. That accident in Kansas proved the undoing of Tim D.

Found with a car full of guns and ammo on his way to New York State, the very place where the murders would occur. Where's that at? It's all the way up in New York. But here's a question about the theory of the crime. Was Tim a desperate, depressed man on a mission to win back his wife, a lone wolf, or was his wife in on it? All along, detectives had considered the possibility that Charlene not only knew about the plan to murder Josh, but maybe had talked Tim into doing it as payback for his blunder in losing the kids.

So you owe me, Tim Dean. Yes. You owe me a big one here. Yes. It was a theory that came to resonate for some of Josh and Amber's loved ones. He had a couple of friends that, you know, they were like, you need to look at Charlene. Did you say, oh no, that can't be, don't? I didn't say, oh no, it couldn't be. I said, oh no, I pray it's not. In fact, Josh's sister, Nicole, had given police an earful about Charlene early on. The cops came to my house and told me what happened and asked me if my brother had enemies. I said, no, my brother does not have enemies, but he's got a Charlene. Nicole right away says it's her.

Her and Josh's best friend, Keith. They both said, I don't think she should be here. I think it might have been her. And I was like, that's crazy. By the time of the funerals, even Amber's sister, who'd never met Charlene, thought she might be involved. I saw her for the first time in my life at the funeral. And I just got cold chills. And I remember, you know, speaking at the funeral, giving my sister's eulogy, you know, seeking her out in the crowd, you know, just to make eye contact with her when I was

talking about how good of a mother my sister was to her children. And you had suspicions already at that point? At that point, yes. And beyond her bad-mouthing of Josh, depicting him as a violent bad guy, there was this in the case against Charlene, and it was a big factor. In an early phone call, she claimed she learned of Josh's death on Facebook, that she'd seen a picture of the house and the street address. But that, in fact, didn't happen. The street was made public, but not the house or number. That was a lie because that was not a photograph of Josh's house.

She couldn't have seen it. So how did she know, unless she was part of the plot? Eight days after the murders, detectives picked up Charlene at her boyfriend Casey's house. We knocked on the door and asked Charlene to come with us. She didn't seem phased by the whole thing. She didn't seem shocked. She didn't say, I've got a lawyer. Not at all.

We're done here? No. So she came down? Yes, she did. She willingly talked to us for quite a while. Okay, nice to meet you. Conversation was cordial as they walked through her backstory. Charlene told them how surprised she'd been when she found out her ex-boyfriend was dead. So I called his mom. And she's like, Charlene?

Yes, what's going on? Josh is dead. I hit the floor. Really? What the hell is going on? Yeah. Like, it still feels like a horrible bad dream. Right, right.

How, who, why? That's what I want to know. Could Tim have been the shooter, they asked her. Did he harbor ill will toward Josh? Tim knew the stuff that Josh had done to me. What do you mean? Josh used to beat the hell out of me Oh really? That's odd

But, you know, Tim had never really spoke too bad about him You know, it was more of, you know If I could ever get into a fight with him, I would fight him Do you think Tim's capable of shooting somebody? I can't see it. Like, unless it was, like, on the job protecting his life. Right, yeah, yeah. I can't see it.

He's not that type of person. No. Charlene denied knowledge of Tim's murderous plans. But detectives had learned something else about her, and it went back to that rental car he ended up crashing. Charlene had driven Bron to pick it up at the start of the road trip. Did you take somebody to go rent a vehicle? I took a friend to go rent a vehicle.

Who's that? Bron. Well, I can't say his last name. Bron? Bron. She said she was simply doing a friend a favor, never asked him what or who it was for. Did she think it was unusual? You guys didn't talk on the way? Why are you renting a vehicle? No, I...

Isn't that kind of unusual? I just keep people's privacy. I mean, we talked, but we didn't talk about that. But there was so much more to the saga of the wrecked rental car. Remember how Tim had trouble renting a replacement because he only had cash? He was really upset about that. He just left. Detectives now learned it was Charlene herself who'd driven almost 500 miles, credit card in hand, to get Tim Dean back on the road.

Did you help him? I drove up there, took him to the rental car. Can you tell me where he's going, what he's doing? Nope. I don't ask questions. I don't care. Honestly, I assumed it was for work, because he works for Frito-Lay now. Okay. So he travels all the damn time.

The more she talked, the more radioactive she became as a suspect. I got there around Saturday night, I think. Okay. How long was that? The more she talked, the more radioactive she became as a suspect. I was like, ask anybody else that you can, because I don't feel like coming up there afterwards. I don't feel like doing s*** for you. I don't, you know. Yeah. But if you're stranded, I'm not going to just be that kind of person that's like, you know what, f*** you. You know? No, I understand. Absolutely.

No, no, that's s***. And it comes around. Right. But Charlene didn't seem like someone who'd do a big favor for the man who'd essentially ruined her life by costing her custody of her kids they cut to the chase did you have anything to do with tim shooting josh and amber no did you put tim up to it no i'm seeing a woman in her 20s who is actually trying to convince a police officer an experienced police officer much like a teenager would, that her story is real. And watching her interview is just not believable. All right, I got a couple of things that are not jiving that I want to talk to you about specifically.

They were about to turn up the heat. Before I do that, I'm going to read what Miranda writes. I had just lost my kids. and I said, you know what? I can't deal with this. I can't deal with the depression and the sadness anymore. I need my kids. My kids are my life. And he looked at me, and he's like, what do we do?

A desperate mom. How deep did this plot go? I didn't think it was going to happen. I blame myself for everything. Charlene had done her best to bat it all away. Those investigative details that seemed to tie her to Josh and Amber's murders. Where did he go after that? But the detectives grilled her deep into the night. It was 1 30 in the morning. I had had about two hours of sleep in two days and all I could think about was getting home to

my children. Did you ever get back to them? No. That was it, wasn't it? Yes. Never saw them again because Charlene started to spill. Watch and listen now as she gives it up. The story she told us is much the same as the story she would eventually tell the authorities. How she became a killer. I blame myself for everything. Charlene says it started after that August court hearing in New York State where she lost custody of her kids. She and Tim were on the long drive back to Texas when she came undone. I had just lost my kids, at least for the school year. And I said, you know what, I can't deal with this.

I can't deal with the depression and the sadness anymore. I need my kids. My kids are my life. And he looked at me and he was like, what do we do? Charlene had the answer. I was like, he's got to go. He's got to go. So you say to Tim, we've got to do something. And what does he say back to you? Okay.

Okay? I will kill him. Is that what you understood him to say? He said okay. Did you realize you'd crossed a line there? Not at the time, because it was just talk. This is the moment you became the architect of a murder. Yeah, but at the time, I didn't think it was going to happen. Maybe not right then and there, but after visiting her children in New York two months later,

the wheels in her head were still turning. My son is bawling his eyes out to me, saying how he hates it up here. He wants to come home with me. He wants me to steal him away. That hit me, because anybody that knows my son knows he doesn't just bawl his eyes out like that. Did this put you back in that place where you had that conversation? Back when? Yes. She says when she returned home to Texas, she told her husband Tim it was showtime. I'm telling him that, you know, now it needs to be done. And what needs to be done is Josh needs to be killed.

Yes. And Tim is going to be the agent of bringing that off? Yes. He's going to be the killer? Yes. That missile is off and going at this point, isn't it? Yes. You've lit the fuse.

Mm-hmm. So they planned it in that garage. Yes, Charlene was there, too. She, Tim, and his friend, Bron Bowler, working out the logistics of the murder plot. Bron agreed to rent the car. Tim would drive it to New York. What was his understanding of what was going on and what you were asking him to do? To go up to New York to handle business.

So he says, yeah, okay, I'm good for that, huh? What's the understanding between you and Tim about what is afoot at this point? He was going to drive up, kill Josh, and come back. Charlene, that makes you a murderer. Do you realize that? You have commissioned this. The gun is in your hand every bit as much as it is his when you say, go do this thing, we're in it together. Do you get that? Yes, I do.

So what are your words to Tim when he heads out? That I love him. She still loved him. Their broken marriage wasn't so broken. The divorce talk was just part of a plan to win the children back. And so her husband, former chief of police of Sunray, Texas, began the journey north with his bag full of guns. It all looked normal.

Then came the hiccup, that car accident in Kansas. He calls me at 4 a.m., says, I wrecked the rental car. And what are you supposed to do? Get him a fresh set of wheels? I tried. You guys both know how law enforcement works. You're on the record. This would be an excellent time to call this thing off, right? Maybe a sign this wasn't meant to be. We tried to go to New York and ended up in a ditch in Kansas. But you go up there. What do you do?

I picked him up from the motel and I drove him to an airport so he could rent a vehicle. On you go. Part two. Plan is on. Do you give him encouragement? Not really encouragement. But I give him the debit card and credit cards if he needs them.

Here's your new ride. Go to New York and kill the father of my children. For Charlene, there was no turning back. She drove back home to Texas and waited. How do you find out? I got home from work on Monday, the 22nd of October. I saw the news articles of shootings in SOTUS. So according to her own words, Charlene talked her husband into murder, a skillful manipulation. Now that she'd been caught, would she try to manipulate the system as well? She's a master manipulator.

It made me sick to my stomach. Taking us for a bunch of patsies. Could Charlene strike one more deal? Do you realize how much misery you've caused Charlene to so many human beings? Yes. How many families are destroyed because you wanted to have what you wanted to have?

Do you have any remorse for that? Tons. I got to say, it doesn't really show. I don't know how remorse is supposed to look, but I don't think I'm seeing it. On November 5th, 2018, two weeks after Josh and Amber were gunned down in their driveway, Charlene Childers and her husband, Tim Dean, were charged in their murders. Josh and Amber's parents weren't exactly surprised by the news, but that didn't make it any easier to take.

It made me sick to my stomach, thinking that she sat with us the whole week with the grieving family. Taking us for a bunch of patsies. She hugs me and tells me she is so sorry for everything. And knowing what you know now. Yeah, I can't wash that off of me. Not to mention the show that she put on at the vigil.

Whoever did it has now made it to where my kids grow up without a dad. And that's nothing a kid should ever have to do. What do you think about that conduct? I think she's a narcissist. I think she made herself believe she had nothing to do with it to have a straight face during the whole thing. Like she was part of us, and she was not. That's really monstrous behavior.

I mean, there's the crime in itself of setting it all in motion, which you do. But then this other thing of coming right into these people's homes and to say, I'm so sorry for your loss, and you're responsible for the loss. This horrible thing. How could you do that? It was hard. The families were also disgusted by Tim Dean. How could a police chief suddenly become a stone-cold killer?

He didn't even know my son. And to come up here, drive thousands of miles, and shoot him? For what? Assistant District Attorney Christine Callinan says, not for what, but for whom. You describe her as a master manipulator. Special manipulative skills when it came to men. Absolutely. She always utilized men in her life.

She utilized Tim to kill Josh. I mean, she was in two active relationships throughout the case. She was still writing letters to Timothy Dean, professing that he was the love of her life. But then also, Casey Miller visited her 60 times at the jail. Charlene and Tim were potentially facing life in prison as their trials approached. The DA wondered if they would turn on one another at trial. Her statements to police end up being admissible, and at that point her attorney reaches out and wants to talk about her coming to the table and cooperating.

But could she be trusted? I didn't think she would be able to tell the truth. She's a master manipulator, so I came into that proffer thinking that it wasn't going to work out, that she would do the one thing that she's always done throughout the case, and it's protect herself and do what's best for her. So the DA was skeptical as they cut Charlene a deal, pleading guilty to manslaughter in exchange for telling the truth and nothing but the truth to a jury.

So she's a wild card going into trial. Absolutely. At this point, I don't know if she's going to stick to the agreement and come through and testify and actually sit on a stand in public and admit to what she had done. Even without Charlene, the case against Tim Dean was strong. His DNA was found in that ski mask the police dogs sniffed out a block from the murders. And though police never did track down the gun, they think it came from, where else? The department where Tim used to work. What is believed is that it was taken from the Sunrite Police Department. Property room? Yes.

When she took the stand, Charlene did lay it all out for the jury. How she dispatched her husband on a mission to kill Josh. And it played out more or less as she'd hoped, except for one important detail. She says she never wanted Amber to die. She was not supposed to be involved at all. It would have been okay if Josh is dead. Because that was the plan. It was the plan, yes.

Okay, no. I mean, it still... It still was a shock that it actually happened. Yes, it was planned to happen. It was planned by you. Yes. You liked this girl. I did.

You thought she was a good surrogate mom for your kids. And there she is with a gun right up against the back of her ear. Blew her brains out. You're a guy on your orders. No, those were not my orders. She was never in the plans. Ever. At trial, Charlene's credibility was an easy target for Tim's defense attorney.

She's a walking, talking contradiction of herself. I don't know if she's capable of telling the truth. Would the defendant please stand? But in the end, her story was too evil, too cold to dismiss. It took the jury just four hours to convict Timothy Dean of double murder. We, the jury, find the defendant guilty. We all knew what it was going to be, but still, we were all just so relieved to hear that first, you know, strong, guilty verdict. Tim was sentenced to life in prison. Ron Bowler got one to three years for

second-degree conspiracy. And Charlene is serving 28 years. Wayne County District Attorney Mike Calarco. In the final analysis, Tim Dean is the one who pulled the trigger. We felt the proffer and resolution as to Charlene was appropriate under the circumstances.

28 years is plenty of time for Charlene, if she chooses, to think about all the carnage she unleashed. Do you realize how much misery you've caused Charlene to so many human beings in the course of this? Yes. How many families are destroyed? Because you wanted to have what you wanted to have. Do you have any remorse for that? Tons. I gotta say, it doesn't really show.

I don't know how remorse is supposed to look, but I don't think I'm seeing it. You seem to be okay with what's happened. On the outside, maybe. What happened to you? I made bad choices, and I regret them every single day. Near the end of our interview, Charlene stepped away and spoke to her attorney. I need a break. She returned to her chair more emotional this time. What do you tell people who pretty quickly call you a monster, just flat-out evil? I'm a human being. I make mistakes. This was ultimately the biggest mistake I've ever done.

I'm sorry more than I can express. Every day, it runs through me. In your predicament now, that's not going to get you so much as an extra bologna sandwich. I know what I did was wrong. And I know sorries are not good enough, and it will never be good enough. Both Amber and Josh's families are trying to put this all behind them now, if not for their own sakes, for the children involved. They are the light of all of our lives.

Josh's sister, Nicole, has custody of Josh and Charlene's two kids. They're your babies now. They're my babies. They're my piece of Josh. I wouldn't know what to do without them. And Amber's parents are bringing up that little boy who witnessed it all. The boy in the back seat. Josh Jr. This little guy has been our godson. You know, without him, I don't know how we would have made it through. Josh is literally the glue that holds the scandal together right now. How are you keeping Amber's memory alive for Josh Jr.? Oh, we've got pictures all over the house.

You know, every night before he goes to bed and every morning, we all say goodnight to him, grandma and grandpa love you, mom and dad love you more.