Dateline Originals - Killer Role - Ep. 6: My Jaw Hit The Floor

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Days before her trial was to begin, Tucker’s lawyer said he had proof of his client’s innocence: a recording of the shooting made by Tucker herself. Warning: This episode contains audio of violence which may be disturbing to some listeners.This episode was originally published on April 29, 2021. 

Homicide detectives are, in a way, storytellers. Take a confusing jumble of facts and plot points like ballistics, blood spatter, witness statements, form them into a comprehensive narrative, beginning, middle, and end. Make sense of the inexplicable. As in the case of the shooting of Shane Moore. On the surface, an apparently simple story. Certainly no whodunit. Tucker herself told Detective Bill Ford

it was she who pulled the trigger. Why do you think you shot him? I think because I felt like... like there was a knife to my throat and I didn't have anywhere to run. You shot him. I think because I felt like... Like there was a knife to my throat and I didn't have anywhere to run. Okay. Let me ask you this. But I don't think I did mean to shoot the gun. I didn't mean to shoot the gun. I didn't mean to shoot the gun.

So, that story had been told. But the one that hadn't been, at least not to the detective's satisfaction, was the why Shane was shot story. Was this self-defense come tragic accident, as Tucker said? Or, as Detective Gabe Birchfield believed, Something else altogether. It's almost like they were looking for something to happen where they could concoct this story. They're like, Shane's around. There's a notary

here. Let's put this gun here and if he makes any attempt to come into our house we'll pick it up and it'll be available and we'll shoot him and just claim self-defense. But that was just a theory, mind you, and certainly not one sufficiently solid to persuade a DA to charge murder.

The detectives needed hard facts that told the truth, something you could see with your own eyes, like an instant replay sort of thing. The kind of something you could see with your own eyes, like an instant replay sort of thing. Kind of thing you'd see in a football game, where they'd simply sit back and watch and make an impartial judgment based on the slow-mo. Detective Bill Ford even indulged in that wishful thinking as he talked to Tucker after the shooting. We don't have a video of this. This isn't like TV. We can't play this back in our minds or on a TV screen. If only.

Anyway, investigations take time. Fall came, winter, a whole year passed. And then Tucker got busy. Tucker, or Wynn, as she emerged then. We absolutely adored her. There was no one that was left unscathed with this whole thing. She signed a contract the day after she read the script. And none of them knew, not the filmmakers, not the theater people, not even the detectives, about the other movie,

maybe the most important one of her life, a movie recorded by Tucker herself. You're listening to Dateline NBC's newest podcast, Killer Roll. As the date for Tucker's manslaughter trial approached, Detective Birchfield began hearing that Tucker expected to be acquitted. Too optimistic on her part? Maybe not. Though Birchfield hoped to prove manslaughter,

he knew that Tucker, along with her mom as a witness, had a possibly convincing story to tell a jury. He'd heard it himself firsthand. You needed something to disprove the stories that they told you. We did. We had to disprove it. And up to that point, we did not have anything to disprove what they were telling us because Shane could not tell us anything. So maybe the real puzzle behind the shooting of Shane could not tell us anything. So maybe the real puzzle behind the shooting of Shane Moore would never be resolved. Still, as trial approached, Tucker's defense team naturally prepared every bit of exculpatory evidence they could find.

And prior to trial, they offered it up to the prosecution. Who knew? Maybe seeing it, the DA would be so overwhelmed by it all, she'd just go ahead and drop the charges. There was one piece of evidence in particular. Their ace card, as the defense attorneys told Detective Birchfield. They said, we have some evidence that's going to prove this was self-defense. So we said, okay, send it to us. And what was this amazing piece of apparently defense-friendly evidence? Well, imagine this.

It was Tucker's home movie. She'd recorded the whole deadly incident on her cell phone. All this time, the detectives had no idea it existed. It was the very thing they'd fantasized about. It was their slow-mo replay. Finally, this must tell the real story. Of course, since the defense gave it to the prosecution, maybe it proved the shooting was just an accident after all, or self-defense. So Detective Birchfield pushed play. And my, oh my,

oh my. Birchfield called Detective Tony Young. And he said, you're not going to believe this. You've got to come to the sheriff's department. When he pushes a button on his computer, my jaw hit the floor. We finally got what we need. This is Shane's side of the story. We got basically Shane's entire statement right here. The video starts off slowly, very slowly. When we first got hold of it and started to watch it,

we wondered what the detectives were so excited about. Here's what the video shows. Tucker is positioned with her iPhone at the end of a table as her mother prepares for the arrival of Carla the notary. We cannot see Tucker, but we can hear how she responds to a request from Kelly. Tucker, you help her. I want to come out. No, I'm poised here. I know.

Poised for what? We don't know exactly, but it's apparent that Tucker intends to use her phone like a hidden camera. But the center of the shot is blocked by a large clay pot, so there's not much to see at first. Kelly briefly walks through the left-hand side of the screen, holding a shaggy white mutt, tail wagging, and then the grandmother and Carla and Shane's friend, the man who met Carla on the driveway, walk into and out of frame. They're looking for the grandmother's driver's license. Carla needs it before she can notarize the grant deed Shane has prepared for her. Here's my USAA card.

This drags on for seven minutes and 31 seconds. Then, with nothing said, Tucker picks up the camera, pans it to the right across the kitchen to a bank of four floor-to-ceiling wood-framed windows. And there you can see a tall, thin man, about 12 feet or so outside the windows. He's wearing a white ball cap, light blue tank top. It's Shane. Tucker speaks to no one in particular. Shane needs to stay away from the property. Then Tucker pans back to the activity inside. And you can see Carla, the notary, Kelly, and Grandmother Lori

sitting at a large, rustic wooden table. Kelly can be heard speaking to Carla. She is not happy. Oh, this is a grant deed. So do you know what this is? Oh, this is, this is not, no, this is not getting signed. Okay. Do you know anything about this? No, it was not getting signed. Carla, who had just gotten the grant deed minutes earlier from Shane's friend, had been told this was something the grandmother wanted to sign. So then you see Carla, who had just gotten the grant deed minutes earlier from Shane's friend, had been told this was something the grandmother wanted to sign. So then you see Carla turning to Lori.

Do you know what this is? She asks. Did you know anything about this? The next voice you'll hear will be Tucker's speaking to Carla, almost as if Carla had some authority, like a cop or a judge. This man, my uncle Shane, is supposed to stay and take care of my grandmother. And the other day, he has assaulted me. He's not supposed to be within any range of me. He came into this house, passed me while I was sleeping. Is this him?

Yes. Was somebody texting you named Shane. Yes. Tucker picks up her phone again, the camera still recording, and pans it back over to the large bank of windows. Shane is still there, still outside, but he's just standing, looking in. He's maybe six or eight feet away from the windows.

In 48 seconds, he'll be shot through the heart. Meanwhile, inside the house, accusations are flying. This man, he threatened this woman's life, my mother, unless she signed that paper. Unless my mother signed it. This is up to you whether you sign it. Tucker pans her camera away from Shane, and the kitchen table with Carla, Lori, and Kelly fills the frame. Kelly leans in toward Carla,

raises her voice as if angry at Carla, as if Carla had some hand in all this. She's not signing a grant deed. I was told it was an inheritance. She was told it was an inheritance, a will. An addendum to her will. A will. This is not... This is a grantee. You're not signing a grantee,

mother. No, I am not signing... Do you understand what a grantee is? He's coming into the house. God damn it. That was Tucker. To the far left of the screen, we can see the front door across the living room slowly open. Pick up the gun!

Pick up the gun, Tucker yells. The camera, in her hand now, is floating around through the kitchen. Shane has about 16 seconds left. It will take us quite a bit longer to describe the scene than how long it actually took in real time. You can hear Kelly talking to Shane. She's across the kitchen. Her voice is raised. She's not signing a grant deed, Shane.

I thought it was a will. Now Kelly leaves the kitchen and walks toward the front door. Towards Shane. She's not signing a grantee. You son of a bitch. The camera swings wildly through the kitchen and then moves toward the front door, which is now open. Kelly is silhouetted against the bright white light shining through. We can hear Shane talking, but we can't hear exactly what he's saying, and we can't quite see him. Now Kelly is yelling at Shane, and that we can hear. She's not signing a grantee. It's her property. She said she'd sign it, replied Shane. And then for a split second, we see the.38 snub-nosed revolver.

It's in Tucker's right hand. And then... Yeah, if you told her... Get out of here! Oh, God! Oh! Jesus! Jesus!

Jesus! Oh, God! She said it! Oh, God!! Oh God! She shot him! Oh God! Oh God! Oh Tucker! It's hard to imagine, but it really happened. Tucker had her phone in her left hand, camera recording,

as she used the gun in her right hand to shoot her uncle through the heart. When the detectives saw the video, they knew right away. This was a very different set of circumstances than we were told during the initial interview with Tucker. It proved the exact opposite of what they were claiming. It proved no self-defense and exactly what happened at the front door. Yes, Kelly and Shane were arguing at the door, but there's nothing in the video showing Shane barging in or being aggressive or reaching his hand around the door, horror movie style, as Tucker described. And remember how during her interview afterwards with the police,

Tucker explained just how pointedly she warned her uncle to stay back. You know I'm supposed to be here. Get out of here. I have a gun. Leave. You're violent. We all know you're violent. Get out of here. It was very loud. There was no mistaking it. But video doesn't lie. And the video showed, in reality, Tucker gave Shane no warning at all. Yeah, if you told her...

And when Tucker shot him, it appeared to be entirely unprovoked. Self-defense? Sure didn't look like it to the detectives. Which got us to thinking about a particular Q&A when Tucker talked to the detectives right after the shooting. It was about something Shane's friend Carlton overheard. Carlton is the one who brought the grant deed in to be signed. As he was giving Shane CPR, he said, he heard what Tucker said to her mom. Carlton said that he heard you say something like,

you told me to do it. When the detectives asked Tucker about that... You remember saying something to the effect of... You told me I could do it. You told me... Watch the... Tucker seemed taken aback by the question. Didn't have a ready answer for that.

I was referring to the fact that I saw Shane and that everything happened because I was right there. Which is stupid because my mom was right there, and she's the same thing as... But I don't have this in my mind. You told me to do it, or you told me I could do it or something? Be there, be present while the will addendum stuff was happening. Sadly, we couldn't ask Shane's friend Carlton about this. He died a month after the shooting. Drug overdose. But Detective Birchfield also interviewed Shane's

girlfriend, Stacey McKenzie, who got to the scene minutes after the shooting happened. And here's what she said she heard. Tucker was talking to Kelly, her mother, and she said, you told me to do it, you told me I could do it. Wasn't all she heard. Kelly was saying something too, she said. Very loud. Kelly stood there and yelled at Shane, haven't you died yet, you piece of s***?

Why aren't you dead yet? Tucker said she heard something like that too. I remember her screaming, die, die, while he was bleeding out, and I was sobbing and sobbing. Tucker's grandmother, though, told me she heard no such thing. No, no, she didn't say that. You sure? I am absolutely positive. I just can't imagine that she would say that. But listen carefully. Kelly's voice in the background of the 911 call as Shane was receiving CPR from his friend Carlson. Then tilt the head back.

Guys! Which prompted one of the detectives to ask Tucker this. Do you think your mom had any involvement in this? You mean, what do you mean? By getting it all jacked up, by yelling at you, saying... I don't think my mom told me to shoot him. I don't recall that. So, for all their suspicion,

the detectives just didn't have the evidence to charge Kelly. She didn't fire the gun, but Tucker did. The video was the slow-mo replay they so wished they had. And the detectives' take on the video was that the shooting of Shane Moore was neither an accident nor done in self-defense. Obviously, it's murder now. No question in your mind this was murder? No question. This is a murder. They're not defending themselves from anything. So they took it to a grand jury, and the grand jury agreed. Instead of going to trial for manslaughter, Tucker was arrested

again, this time for murder. So they took her to jail. They locked the door. And there she sat and waited for trial. No more fake names, no plays, no starring roles in the movies. Tucker's next command performance would be for a judge. All right, so anyone that is going to testify today in this hearing needs to remain outside the courtroom until you are so called. When Tucker walked into Department 201 of the Jackson County Courthouse,

she looked nothing like the charismatic young woman we'd seen on stage and screen. Not her fault. She'd been in jail for four months. She was very pale, her blonde hair hung limp around her shoulders, and the plain green inmate outfit bagged off her slender frame above bright red prison-issue slippers. She smiled briefly at her family and sat down. I'm assuming everyone's ready to go and begin with presentation of evidence. The event that had brought everyone to the courtroom was a bail hearing. Tucker was asking to be released.

She wanted to go home and wait for her trial there. And the hearing itself played out like a trial. Witnesses were called, evidence presented. Here's my USAA card. Tucker's own video of the shooting was played, of course. Yeah, if you told her...

But the court heard more than just that very dramatic bit of video. There was a, called a director's cut, if you will, some extra material. After the shooting, Tucker had put her phone down, but it kept recording audio for nine more minutes. So now the court could hear Tucker's reaction to the news Shane wasn't dead yet. He was still breathing. The court also heard why Tucker hoped Shane's wound was fatal. Oh my God, these are my things. You're going to kill us all.

Oh my God, you're going to kill us all. Why did you do that? There's things in your face. You're just going to die. Was Tucker truly afraid of Shane? Or was Shane the one who was afraid of Tucker and her mother Kelly? It certainly sounded like it when he called the sheriff's office just hours before his death. And that call was played in court, too. Just not to the show.

Hi, I'm with your... I was hoping I could get a sheriff out here at my place. I'm expecting a Notre Republic to be here at 2 o'clock to 2.30, and I don't want any trouble with my sister's over in the house. Her kid fired off a gun over there this morning. I'm afraid my sister's going to try to stop the Notre Republic, and that's what I'm afraid of, and I don't want any trouble. Tucker kept her head down as both recordings were played

and kept it lowered when the next witness was called. Her mother, Kelly Moore, the woman who had been at Tucker's side at every milestone in her young life, sewing her costumes in kindergarten, doing her hair and makeup in high school. Taking her side in fights with everyone from a USC boyfriend to an Oregon theater director. And now, here she was, confidently striding into the middle of the courtroom, ready to take the stand for Tucker, certain the facts were on her side.

Ten feet away, Tucker, her head still lowered, gave her mom a sidelong look, never smiled. On the stand, Kelly again recounted her story that Shane had been threatening her a few hours before he was killed. He was mostly saying, this is my property, you better not f*** up my deal with mother, Kelly. You better not f*** up my deal with mother. I was afraid.

I was more afraid than I've ever been. And I wanted Tucker to come outside with the gun. I wanted to have the gun. I was that afraid. But Kelly testified that it was not her who had the gun. No, she put that in her daughter's hand. And Tucker came out and I was absolutely panicked. And she gave me the gun and then she took it back from me because she could see that I was panicked and she also knows that I'm half blind. Next, the prosecutor asked Kelly about the document at the center of the family dispute. The grant deed Shane wanted notarized. The one Kelly tore up in a fit of anger just before Tucker fired the gun. And then you said you didn't get a chance to really look at the document that you tore up.

Do you recognize this? I'm sure in the state's exhibit 20. I don't. I don't recognize it. But it's torn up the way I described. And that document gave, divided the property evenly between you and your brother. It's what that document purports to do. A full 15 seconds passed before Kelly answered It seems to do that, I don't know what it means off the top of my head

Without right of survivorship, I don't know what that means Didn't know what it meant Not what she told her mother, Lori. At least, not what Lori told us, in no uncertain terms. Shane was trying to steal my farm that day. The grant deed would have made him owner of the farm. Where did you hear that? Well, my daughter is a lawyer, and she explained that to me. Okay, so that was Kelly's explanation of what that grant deed would accomplish, that it would take the property away from you and give it to Shane?

Yes. Now, compare that to what Kelly told the police about that very same document hours after the shooting. And I looked at it, and it's a grand deed, giving away the property to him and me. To him and me. Kelly also said back then that Shane told her she was still getting her share of the estate, said that just seconds before Tucker killed him. When he opened the door, and he's telling me,

what are you doing? Half of it's going to you, half of it's going to you, he said to me. And so it appeared that Kelly knew Shane's plan was to split the ranch 50-50. And yet her mother said Kelly told her something else entirely. The sort of thing families sometimes fight about in civil court. But here, it was a crime story. And Tucker was the one in the dock, not Kelly. And now it was time for the judge to rule.

Bail or no bail. Tucker did not testify at her bail hearing. In fact, for all her thespian skills, she did not keep the tension from her face as the judge prepared to speak. It was, as they say, electric in the courtroom. Everyone waiting for the judge to announce her decision. She could grant Tucker's request for bail or send her back to jail for at least another year before her trial could begin. When they say the wheel of justice grinds slow,

it's not just an expression. Tucker could be sitting inside getting paler by the day for a long, long time. So, the courtroom waited. And then... I do think the state has established enough evidence that gets him to the standard necessary to not grant bail. No bail. no release. As the judge went on to explain her ruling, Tucker began to sob and hyperventilate, much like she did in that police interview room two and a half years before. This time, it got to be so bad, the judge had to pause the reading of her ruling.

Ms. Reed, if you don't behave, I'm going to just have to remove you from the courtroom. Please, please do. I can't. I'm just going to get rid of this now. I'm just going to throw up. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. A sheriff's deputy escorted Tucker out of the courtroom, closed the door, and Tucker's screams, undiminished, echoed down the hallway. And if you want to put something in there about returning the security to those who posted bail for her, that would be fine, Trevi.

Like the screams of a woman at the gates of hell. Was it real? Matthew Spickard, the filmmaker, was in court that day. He and composer Kenny Vibert saw a very different Tucker than the one they thought they knew. I was there to be supportive because I... At first, there was no doubt in my mind from the story that we got that I could support someone defending themselves

and their mother and their family. Because how terrifying of a situation that would be. And then to not, to see contradicting evidence, it just, it, it, I was taken aback. What was it like to hear your star actress screaming in the hallway as the hearing went on? You can't help but to think, is that just another act as well, you know? It wasn't going her way, so let's try to make it another act. Let's try to shift it. Which is just how Detective Birchfield saw it, too. It was all part of the show. Calculated, in your view. Yes, it's planned. She knows when to do it. She knows when to turn it on,

turn it off. Four hours after her courtroom outburst, Tucker called her mother. It was, of course, recorded. You are receiving a prepaid call from an inmate in Jackson County Jail. Your balance is $3.75. This call and your location are recorded and subject to monitoring. Call accepted. Tucker delivered a critique of sorts of Kelly's testimony at the bail hearing. Hello.

You didn't even, you never answered the yes or no questions importantly. It was never, you never even explained what was going on. I don't know. I'm really ruined with the one judge. The one judge thinks I'm guilty. She doesn't think you're guilty. We'll be able to counteract it. I have to go. I have to go back to myself. Bye-bye. Bye. The calling party has hung up. Goodbye. With no bail, the only possible way for Tucker

to get out of jail was to face a jury. But there was one delay after another. Ryan and Rhonda Moore waited as patiently as they could to see some justice done for Shane, Ryan's brother. He was a good guy. I mean, ultimately, that's what he comes down to. He was a good guy. He had friends who loved him. He had nephews who loved him.

They worried, though. How would a jury react to Shane? Ryan and Rhonda loved him, but they also knew he was a cranky, reclusive drug user who might be portrayed at Tucker's murder trial as someone less than. My brother is not the most sympathetic victim. He doesn't have a history that's going to play well. Tucker, on the other hand... Action.

Stop! Guys, stop! Cut. Well, we know she played very well. So, hard to know how she would play in her murder trial. Certainly a trial we wanted to cover. Except, we didn't. COVID happened.

All the courts in Jackson County, Oregon shut their doors. All cases awaiting trial were in limbo. And we're not sure exactly when or how or why, but somewhere in that uncertainty, the DA made a decision. She offered a deal. Tucker would be allowed to plead guilty, not to murder, no,

to manslaughter, to second-degree manslaughter. In Oregon, that means taking a reckless action that results in someone's death. Why do you think they let her plead out to manslaughter? I'm just going to assume that the new district attorney just wanted to get it done and out of the way. But the DA told us something else, something about Tucker's acting skills. And frankly, it really wasn't so surprising, given all we've heard. Did her talent shave off years of prison time? Maybe.

The DA put it this way. She had, quote, no way of predicting whether a jury would believe Tucker was play acting or truly afraid. To me, I did not, I wasn't happy with the result. It's all frustrating. Manslaughter, too, is not justification for what she did. But Detective Birchfield told us he got it.

He could see very well what might happen when a jury listened to that bright young woman and then looked at him. I don't think the jurors are going to side with the big policemen that are trying to pin all this on some sweet little actress. Tucker's mom, Kelly, once a person of interest, was never charged with anything. And now, when the time comes, she stands to inherit everything. She declined our request for an interview. But we talked with her off camera several times. And each time she was very civil, very polite.

We found it a little surprising then that there were people who didn't want to talk about Kelly, people who said they were afraid of her. Though her ex-husband said, with a nervous laugh, Wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm afraid of her. Kelly's own brother had an identical reaction. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Ryan said he hasn't seen Kelly for years, since a big family fight. Honestly, one of the reasons I don't want to go back there is I didn't want to put myself

in the same state that she was in. And Tucker? After she pleaded guilty to manslaughter too, Tucker was sentenced to six years, three months in prison, the minimum under Oregon law. Given time served, she could be out in 2024. Kelly told us Tucker's plea was coerced. She plans to file a civil action in hopes of having her plea retracted. The DA, however, said the plea deal was hashed out before a judge. There was no coercion. And what will Tucker do with her life? Will she reinvent herself again? Why not? Because even Tucker's not her first name.

I don't know if you know that. It's Aisling. It's A-I-S-L-I-N-G. Though Tucker's one-time theater director, Susan Aversa-Orego, thinks Tucker, Aisling, Wynne should consider giving up drama for her own good. She had so many different names, she could have been any one of them, but none of them created a complete person, if that makes sense. But Tucker still has her starring role to hold

on to. And that one moment. Action! That scene in From the Dark certainly seems to stick with anyone who's seen it. Val. Please stop! Val! Just calm down seen it. Val. Please stop!

Val! Just calm down. Just calm down. Please stop! The moment when all the terror comes to its violent head, a film about a killer starring a killer. Cut!

Who would ever believe it? Killer Roll is brought to you by Dateline NBC. For Dateline NBC, Vince Sterla is our producer. Linda Zhang is the associate producer. Joe Delmonico is the senior producer. And Susan Null oversees our digital programming. Adam Gorfain is co-executive producer. Liz Cole is our executive producer. And David Corvo is our senior executive producer.

From Neon Hum Media, supervising producer is Samantha Allison. Associate producers are Liz Sanchez and Evan Jacoby. Producers are Crystal Genesis and Alex Schumann. Executive producer is Jonathan Hirsch. Sound design and mixing by Scott Somerville. And music by Andrew Eapen