Dateline Originals - The Thing About Pam - Bonus: The Thing About "The Thing About Pam"

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Keith Morrison talks with Renée Zellweger about how and why she made her scripted series.This episode was originally published on March 7, 2022. 

Since we launched the Think About Pam podcast in 2019, it's been downloaded a lot, the whole lot, more than 20 million times so far. And one of those listeners was a woman by the name of Renee Zellweger. She, of course, is the Academy Award winner, famous for blockbuster hits like Bridget Jones' Diary, Jerry Maguire, Judy, and more. She's starring as Pam Hopp in NBC's six-episode scripted series The Thing About Pam, streaming on Peacock. She sat down to tell us about the series and proceeded to blame me for it. I'm quite sure that it's your fault.

I hope so. Because your telling of the story in the podcast was so compelling that I listened to the entire thing from the first episode till the final in one sitting on a road trip. Oh, come on. Really? 100%. One trip. Yeah. And I found it, I'm sure like most people who are fans of the podcast and the episode of Dateline, that it's impossible in the imagination because the absurdity of it is so obvious, in hindsight, probably. So in the telling of the story,

as the events unfold, you keep saying to yourself, that's impossible. And it begs the question, how? How? Over and over again for hours, I just kept asking that question, how? And it says so much about personal and social bias and how it comes into play in the criminal justice system and how we interact with one another socially today, especially in America, that I figured, wow, this is probably worth exploring. And so she did. The story revolves around the 2011 murder of the Missouri mother, wife, DJ, cancer patient named Betsy Faria. It's also about Betsy's friend, Pam Hopp, the woman who drove her home the night she was killed. The name Pam is in the title for a reason. Let's just say she can be very convincing. Her charm, that she's so funny and available as a friend,

triggers a certain memory of this kind of person that we all have. We know her from the grocery store, from church, from the school drop-off line, from, you know, the Cub Scouts, the soccer mom, all of these things. The nice PTA lady who will give you a ride home. She's a safe place to go. And obviously, it just speaks to the certitude that we all carry about what we know is true and just how wrong we can be if we don't pay attention to the evidence

that's in front of us that doesn't support what we already believe to be true. You're known for playing these famous people. Here you were playing a less famous one, but one who was interesting in her own way. How do you become Pam Hopp of all people? How did you go about that? You know, I just thought about it as sort of a dynamic examination of human behavior. So I was looking at everything that was available in the materials, basically with everything standing on the foundation of the podcast that you did so beautifully and the Dateline episode.

And from there, I went into the public record and looked at the interviews and the many court appearances and all the other peripheral information that was available to peruse and sort of started to connect the dots. And thus, veering a little into dark comedy, she interpreted the character and disturbing behaviors of a most unusual woman. In reenacting the interpretation of events from Pam's account, it sort of illuminates the absurdity and impossibility a bit more strongly. It's also Renee Zellweger as you've never seen her before. The transformation was a great team of highly skilled artisans who put these pieces together so that we could create this approximation of Pam Hupp as closely and responsibly as we could. To become Pam, she'd done full body and face prosthetics.

It was interesting to learn about that. It was interesting to learn how to communicate thought when your face is covered, you know, that you have to find another way to physically demonstrate what it is that's going on internally that you intend. You're certainly communicating thought. Yeah. How the heck do you do that? Well, you know, you have to exaggerate certain things and you have to learn how to be expressive in a way that looks natural without looking like you're completely prohibited. That was new. And I didn't realize that, you know, you have to move your face as though you're on a stage hundreds of feet away or you won't see expression. Renee not only stars in the series, she is also an executive producer. We were like boots on the ground.

Sure. And make decisions about script development, creative decisions, and then tactical decisions. There are a lot of moving pieces that are happening, you know, going on all the time because you'll throw one thing into the mix and then inevitably things don't go as planned because there are so many variables that have to come together in order for your shooting day to work. And you like doing that. Sometimes, yeah. It's a wonderful collaboration when you put your heads together to make it work.

Of course, it isn't only about Pam Huck. The series tells the story of Betsy and Russ and their families, the attorneys who battled in court, and a man named Louis Gumpenberger, who would become tragically involved in the case. Playing a person who's still alive, and playing alongside other actors who are portraying other people who are still alive, and some of whom are actually watching it happen, how does that affect the way you do it? There's a different responsibility that comes along with that,

especially when you're talking about a case that involves someone who is so highly regarded and beloved, deeply beloved, such a good, kind person, Betsy Freer. In the descriptions of her, she made everyone feel seen and comfortable, and she was so generous in her spirit and loving, and there was just this warmth that emanated from her. So you want to be careful and not lose sight of what was lost in all of this. So you just, there are certain choices that you want to be careful in making as you proceed. Casting, for example, in Katie Mixon, we never wanted to lose sight of the importance of her life and the love her family have for her.

So Katie is this, she's just magic, you know. She exudes this kindness and she's always laughing and funny and she makes people feel great and it's just so nice to be around her. And it seems like a common thread between Betsy Faria and Katie. So that felt important to us, that she would be properly represented in this as, you know, the special person that she was. And so the producers talked at length to those closest to the story. Like Betsy's husband, Russ, I spoke with him about the experience. When you heard that they were going to make a series based on your story, what do you think? Well um this has been a long long journey that we've been on

and i was a little flattered i never thought that my life would be interesting enough to make a movie let alone a mini series about have you met the people who were involved the guy who plays you for example i haven't met them in person, but I have worked extensively with the writers on the project and have answered many, many, many, many, many questions and given them much information. And once they did cast my part, a gentleman by the name of Glenn Fleschler, very fine actor, is going to be playing me.

And they put me in contact with him, and he and I had a few phone calls, very lengthy phone calls. Are you going to be a little nervous about what they do? A little bit, I'm sure, and some of it's quite emotional, obviously, but I'm anxious to see how it turned out. Josh Duhamel was cast in the scripted series to play Joel Schwartz, Russ Faria's attorney. It's somewhat surreal. I have a feeling that it will really hit home once it actually occurs and the series airs and I get to

watch Josh Duhamel playing me. But so far, it's certainly been a lot of fun. Did he get you? Has he figured out how to portray you? I can't answer that yet, Keith. I haven't seen it. But from everything I hear, he's doing a tremendous job. He's quite a talented actor. And he's such a wonderful guy. It's been a pleasure just getting to know him. So I'm sure he'll do a great job. By the way, a sharp-eyed viewer of Dateline may spot a familiar face. Joel has a cameo in the series. What role did you play? I played a bartender in a scene with prosecutor Leah Askey. In this case, Judy Greer, who I have to tell you, couldn't have possibly been any more nicer or genuine. And what a talented actor she is. It was just a pleasure to watch her. Did you carry off the part with verisimilitude, as they say? It was frighteningly similar.

The interesting part of being the bartender in a bar where she was speaking freely about the defense attorney, namely a guy named Joel Schwartz, and she was cutting him down. And a couple of the extras would come up to me individually and they'd say, so do you work with these people a lot? It seems like you're pretty friendly with them. What's the story? And I would say, you know, you hear how she's talking about this guy, Schwartz, and cutting him down. They go, yeah. I go, well, that's me. So I had fun doing that probably three or four times with the extras.

It was a really enjoyable time. I bet it was. As for Pam Hupp, the woman at the center of the story. So what is the thing about this woman? What's the thing about Pam Renee? It's funny because we had this conversation a lot with Jenny, the showrunner and the writer,

all the producers, the directors, when we're in the scenes trying to capture what that might be, that elusive thing. Sure. I think it's the asterisk. It's the bright red asterisk that's next to the presentation of who Pam is on paper. She's winning. She's sharp and witty. She looks warm and friendly. The things she does and the choices she makes in society would make you easily draw certain conclusions

about the kind of person she is and her character. And that asterisk is the C below. Way below. It's a very big below in that case. Maybe so. The Thing About Pam scripted series is produced by Blumhouse Television and NBC News Studios and is available to stream on Peacock.